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#debian IRC Logs for 2007-11-24

---Logopened Sat Nov 24 00:00:17 2007
---Daychanged Sat Nov 24 2007
00:00<Solver>daffytheduck: where are you from daffytheduck ?
00:00<george> /dev/ttyS3 probably
00:00<daffytheduck>if its only a firestarter its probably a kid with matches
00:00<Solver>daffytheduck: metho is a term I've only heard from my homeland
00:00<raphael>yes. that's the one.
00:00<raphael>ooh, really?
00:00|-|mirshafie_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:00<raphael>me too :P
00:00<Solver>daffytheduck: gotcha :)
00:00<Solver>spot an Aussie at 50 paces :)
00:00<raphael>and Solver, too?
00:00[~]raphael cheers
00:01<daffytheduck>u from here as well
00:01<george>but if it's only a firestater it's probably a kid who says "fire"
00:01<Solver>raphael: as well?
00:01<daffytheduck>wow small world
00:01[~]Solver is an expat
00:01<raphael>yes. very small world. :D
00:01|-|keitherz [~keitherz@] has joined #debian
00:01<Solver>living in Canada but originally from Brissie
00:01<daffytheduck>its election day today
00:01<raphael>aah, ok. where are you, daffytheduck?
00:01|-|buzztracker [] has joined #debian
00:01<keitherz>ok what shall i do again
00:01<raphael>it is indeed.
00:01|-|manphiz` [~user@] has joined #debian
00:01[~]Solver voted at the consulate on Wednesday :)
00:01<george>iiiiiiiiits a small world aaaaaaaaafter aaaaaaalllllll...
00:01<keitherz>ssh gives me more power
00:01<daffytheduck>yeah i think Mr Howard is finished
00:01<Solver>raphael: where are you from?
00:01<Solver>daffytheduck: ditto :)
00:01[~]raphael stabs george :P
00:02<raphael>Canberra. *cries*
00:02<daffytheduck>hes had over ten years
00:02[~]Solver sobs for raphael
00:02<Solver>good museams and memorials
00:02<raphael>everyone hates Canberra. even Canberrans hate Canberra, but in a sort of loving way. :P
00:02<raphael>yeah, and all the shops close at 5:30.
00:02<Solver>i thought that was Perth :)
00:02|-|keitherz_ [~keitherz@] has joined #debian
00:02<daffytheduck>yeah Canberra is an invented place
00:03<george>so it's a sortalove hate relationship?
00:03<keitherz_>cmon help me
00:03<raphael>they stole the only thing that made us unique ;)
00:03<Solver>keitherz_: sorry we're havng down home week :)
00:03<chealer>keitherz: provide your X log
00:03<Solver>keitherz_: right, show us the logs
00:03<daffytheduck>help me help me Im drowning
00:03<raphael>don't be stupid, you can't be drowning
00:03[~]george shoots rubber bands at daffytheduck
00:03<raphael>we're in a drought :P
00:03<Solver>good point!
00:03<keitherz_>even if i X -version it returns nothing
00:04<keitherz_>ok logs
00:04<Solver>and he's a dunk
00:04<Solver>ducks float
00:04<keitherz_>where is it
00:04<daffytheduck>a drunk duck
00:04<raphael>yeah, that too.
00:04<Solver>oh sh*t Nagios alert
00:04<Solver>on my cell
00:04<daffytheduck>i dont know if drunk ducks float
00:04[~]george doesn't like duck floats... but rootbeer floats...
00:04<Solver>pie floaters for me
00:04<chealer>keitherz_: in /var/log/
00:05<raphael>the thing that annoys me the most about Canberra is that there's only one decent computer fair, and it's once a month
00:05<george>or you could do this...
00:05<keitherz_>no log
00:05<keitherz_>of xorg
00:05|-|manphiz` changed nick to manphiz
00:05<Solver>keitherz_: X -version returns nothing?
00:05<keitherz_>maybe i did something wrong when i installed this
00:05<george>X > ~/x.log 2>&1
00:05<Solver>keitherz_: You may have a corrupt binary
00:05<daffytheduck>I think they have the chess national championships down there
00:05<Solver>you may want to reinstall the X server
00:05<george>then if you get stuck hit ctrl-alt-backspace
00:05<keitherz_>thought of that too
00:06<keitherz_>i reinstalled it several times
00:06<kjfol>hit it
00:06<keitherz_>maybe the problem is the package im downloading
00:06<Solver>it's possible
00:06<raphael>hitting it helps... rarely.
00:06<Solver>it wouldn't be the first stuffed repo
00:07<Solver>change repo and aptitude update
00:07<keitherz_>same as this guy:
00:07<george>stuffed repo and rootbeer duck floats
00:07<raphael>I know a computer that restarts when you hit it
00:07<raphael>it's fantastic. :P
00:07<keitherz_>to where should i change the repo
00:07<george>will there be flies with that?
00:07<Solver>keitherz_: pick another one close to you
00:07<Solver>or a well known one for testing
00:08<daffytheduck>what u belt the thing and it restarts
00:08<raphael>mm. just hit the CPU and it restarts. :P
00:08<Solver>I knew a guy who had a box where the power switch was at exactly the same level as the top of the keyboard
00:08<keitherz_>who uses sid here
00:08<Solver>if you put the keyboard too close you'd power it off
00:08<keitherz_>can i see you sources.list
00:08<Solver>keitherz_: no me. no way
00:08<keitherz_>because i only have sic main
00:08<george>keitherz_: people who use sid...
00:08<Solver>this is sid you're talking about
00:09<Solver>eek :)
00:09<raphael>Solver: hehe
00:09<george>(1) they don't use it for real work
00:09<daffytheduck>hang on ill just reboot Bang! lol
00:09<Solver>i gotta start with "is this etch?" :)
00:09<chealer>keitherz_: you shouldn't change the repo.
00:09<keitherz_>is that enough or should i add non-free and contrib
00:09<keitherz_>and other s
00:09|-|keitherz [~keitherz@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:09|-|keitherz_ [~keitherz@] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
00:09<george>(2) they don't keep any storage in the box at all containing anything that needs to continue to exist
00:10<Solver>chealer: sid does put a new spin on things
00:10<raphael>yeah, I found out by accident about that restart function. I hit the CPU because it's an awful computer and was being slow on purpose, and whoom.
00:10<Solver>someone last night was using encrypted filesystems with no backups and no exported private key
00:10<Solver>and was planning to stuff with the arch
00:11<chealer>Solver: newbies shouldn't use sid as something else than a last resort
00:11<Solver>chealer: agreed
00:11<Solver>I've been doing Linux for 13 years and I don't touch it
00:11<raphael>I think Linux users need a seperate version of Scrabble, with extra x's.
00:12<raphael></random thought>
00:12<Solver>good point
00:12<george>!confuse raphael
00:12<dpkg>No, where is your weasel yesterday, raphael? breeches of the dictatorship of tibet with extra herring
00:12<Solver>if there were numbers we could add x2x
00:12<Solver>a great X app
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00:12[~]raphael runs around in diminishing circles screaming
00:12<Solver>george: looks like a perverse fortune :)
00:13<dpkg>methinks fortune is a program to produce a semi-random semi-witty statement
00:13<Solver>dpkg knows all
00:13<dpkg>Bob knows what he's talking about! Listen to Bob!
00:13<raphael>heh, it looks like a news report. :P
00:13|-|keitherz [~keitherz@] has joined #debian
00:13<keitherz>so what
00:13|-|cockroach [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
00:13<Solver>keitherz: it's important to us :)
00:13<keitherz>should i change my repo
00:14<keitherz>what happened?
00:14<george>X > ~/x.log 2>&1
00:14<chealer>keitherz: adding contrib and non-free won't help.
00:14<chealer>keitherz: no
00:14<raphael>it is indeed. We all love [insert favourite candidate here].
00:14<Solver>any word?
00:14<george>keitherz: (to get out, ctrl-alt-backspace) X > ~/x.log 2>&1
00:14[~]Solver is outside Aus and limited to news web sites
00:15<george>Solver: swordfish
00:15<Solver>the polls are still open
00:15<raphael>:) swordfish!
00:15<george>he asked for any word!
00:15<raphael>I try that every time I see a password window. just in case.
00:15[~]Solver expresses his displeasure to the binary with ^C
00:15<keitherz>i told you x do nothing
00:15<raphael>that and a bunch of asterixes
00:16<keitherz>i think the real x is broken
00:16<Solver>well this is sid isn't it
00:16<keitherz>im on sid
00:16|-|Gryfelhase [] has joined #debian
00:16<george>keitherz: ok, so it didn't do anything, right?
00:16<Solver>keitherz: ok then things are going to break
00:16|-|keitherz [~keitherz@] has quit []
00:16<george>een soviet russia, sid is on YOU!
00:16[~]Solver doesn't support sid based problems
00:17<raphael>I have a /dev/input/ts0 device
00:17<raphael>could that be it?
00:17|-|keitherz [~keitherz@] has joined #debian
00:17<george>it could be /dev/ttyS3 :)
00:17<Solver>too long since i've played with a TS
00:17<keitherz>so what did you guys said?
00:17<george>een soviet russia, sid is on YOU!
00:18[~]raphael groans :P
00:18<raphael>what on earth is /dev/urandom?
00:18<keitherz>maybe ill try aptitude -t stable install xserver-xorg-core xorg
00:18|-|keitherz [~keitherz@] has quit []
00:18<george>keitherz: wc -l ~/x.log
00:18|-|mankod [mankod@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:19<george>he can't be helped you know
00:19<george>not unless he slows down, gains some communication skills and uses them
00:19|-|keitherz [~keitherz@] has joined #debian
00:20<keitherz>maybe ill try aptitude -t stable install xserver-xorg-core xorg
00:20<keitherz>will that work?
00:20<george>keitherz: wc -l ~/x.log
00:20<chealer>keitherz: don't expect free support for sid. I'd try reinstalling.
00:20<chealer>!tell keitherz about ep
00:21|-|xuwei [xuwei@] has joined #debian
00:21<raphael>um... stupid question, where is xorg.conf?
00:21<george>either /etc or /etc/X11
00:22<Solver>It snowed yesterday
00:22<Solver>we left the car out accidentally
00:22<raphael>lucky Canadians
00:22<Solver>something like that :)
00:22<raphael>not-so-lucky Canadians
00:23<Solver>raphael: my daughter is a dual national - Aus/Can
00:23<Solver>not bad for one year old eh :)
00:23<Solver>she can get a 3rd nationality from her mum
00:23<kjfol>it was 80f out a couple of days ago and now it's in the mid 20's
00:23<raphael>very nice.
00:23<Solver>that's ice
00:24<Solver>its negatives here at night now. it'll keep getting colder
00:24<raphael>have you introduced her to Linux yet :P
00:24<raphael>it's never too early!
00:24<Solver>raphael: well she broke one of my keyboards last month :)
00:24<Solver>does that answer the question :)
00:24<raphael>that sounds promising ;)
00:24<Solver>she's a techie for sure
00:24<george>and she was still able to log in?
00:24<kjfol>potato guy
00:25<raphael>hahahahahahaha :D
00:25<Solver>george: yeah she was :)
00:25<raphael>george gets one Internet
00:25<chealer>Solver, raphael, etc. : let's try keeping offtopic to a minimum.
00:25<Solver>at 10 months I taught her to turn light switches off
00:25<Solver>chealer: yeah sorry :)
00:25[~]raphael puts a gag on ;)
00:27|-|s0d0 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
00:27<george>oops, looks like it was ALL off's totally silent now!
00:28|-|keitherz [~keitherz@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:28|-|kjfol [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
00:31<raphael>or we've run out of things to say
00:31<Solver>it's late on a Friday evening in North America
00:32[~]Solver sleeps
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00:37<raphael>night night
00:37<raphael>how do I let gedit save xorg.conf?
00:37|-|istoc [] has joined #debian
00:37<raphael>this is another one of those really n00by things. :P
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00:40<Staz>did you do 'gksudo /etc/X11/xorg.conf' ?
00:40|-|istoc [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:40<raphael>no, I think I will.
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01:02[~]Xenguy does evening prostrations to the debian channel...
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01:02<twb>Is that kinda like basketwork and painting
01:02<Xenguy>twb: it could be I think...
01:03|-|mode/#debian [+l 269] by debhelper
01:03<Xenguy>depending on the attitude...
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01:08<istoc>Hi, uh sound doesn't work on this computer I have lenny on. I have no idea what to do, where should I start?
01:08<twb>istoc: does the system have a PCI bus?
01:09<twb>istoc: if so, ask lspci(1) to look for `audio' devices.
01:09<istoc>How would I know if I have a PCI bus? I'm really new to linux.
01:10<twb>istoc: is it an i386 or amd64 architecture machine manufactered since, oh, 1988?
01:11<twb>It probably has a PCI bus.
01:11<twb>lspci won't hurt anything that doesn't have one.
01:11<istoc>lspci doesn't list any audio devices
01:11<twb>What is the audio device you are trying to use?
01:11<twb>Is it onboard?
01:11<istoc>yea, it's a laptop, has to be
01:11<twb>Not necessarily.
01:12<twb>So just to confirm, "lspci | grep audio" does not print anything?
01:12<istoc>lemme check, thanks a lot by the way, wouldnt know where to start otherwise
01:12<istoc>nope, nothing
01:13<twb>Have you ever seen the sound work (e.g. under a different OS)?
01:13<twb>On that laptop, I mean.
01:13<istoc>yea, this was an abandoned ibook, worked perfectly before
01:13|-|gsimmons_ changed nick to gsimmons
01:13<twb>I'm afraid I don't know what to do if it's not listed on the PCI bus.
01:14<istoc>does lspci only list devices with installed drivers?
01:14<twb>You could install and run (as root?) lshw(8).
01:14<twb>No, lspci should list all devices on the bus.
01:15<twb>I suppose it's possible (though ludicrously unlikely) that it's on the USB.
01:15<gsimmons>istoc: Try installing the 'hwinfo' package, and excute "/usr/sbin/hwinfo --sound". This should list any integrated sound devices.
01:15<istoc>what does the lshw package do?
01:15<twb>It LiSts HardWare
01:15|-|xuwei [xuwei@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
01:15<twb>As `aptitude show lshw' would tell you.
01:16<istoc>gsimmons: thanks for the suggestion but I just installed the first package heh
01:16<istoc>want the output from lshw?
01:16<twb>Not in the channel!
01:16|-|RaSeBo [~tzintirim@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:17<istoc>heh I know pastebin
01:17<twb>Use a pastebin, e.g.
01:17[~]Xenguy thinks that the person who invented the clever name aptitude was lacking in the aptitude to create a more clever short command name :-)
01:17<twb>Xenguy: alias a=aptitude. HTH HAND
01:18<Xenguy>twb: gee whiz, that tastes bittersweet =)
01:18|-|kart_ [kartikm@] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
01:18<istoc>is lshw supposed to run slower as root?
01:18<twb>istoc: it will be slow.
01:18<twb>istoc: it is examining lots of things
01:18<istoc>huh, only took a second when run not as root
01:19<twb>It may skip some checks when not root.
01:19<istoc>brb while it runs
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01:20<Xenguy>twb: oh I forgot to mention, I knew that already :P
01:22<twb>Xenguy: it seems to me that rather than guessing which commands users will call frequently, and giving them short names, it is better to give most commands long, semantically abundant names, and let users create shorter aliases based on their personal usage priorities.
01:22<twb>In which case calling it `aptitude' by default is sensible.
01:22<Xenguy>twb: give me a break
01:22<istoc>what things does aptitude do that apt-get doesn't?
01:23<twb>istoc: pattern matching
01:23<twb>istoc: scheduling
01:23<twb>istoc: it also includes some functionality that would require apt-cache and friends.
01:23<twb>Oh, and it has a GUI.
01:24<twb>apt doesn't appear to understand the difference between automatically installed dependencies and packages that were explicitly installed by request; aptitude does.
01:24<Xenguy>istoc: I hear it has advantages (like removing dependencies when you uninstall software) but I've also heard that searches from apt and aptitude don't always 'reconcile' :-/
01:25<istoc>huh, so I wouldnt have to check for orphaned packages?
01:25<twb>aptitude --schedule-only markauto ~i!~M~Rdepends:~i
01:25<twb>aptitude --schedule-only keep ~aremove
01:25<twb>aptitude install
01:25<Xenguy>istoc: that's the idea, yes
01:26<twb>...that, for example, would add the "I was automatically installed" flag to all installed packages that some other installed package depends on, except where it would result in two packages depending on each other (i.e. being removed).
01:26|-|aFlag [~rafael@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
01:26<george>when you (the user) mention packages to install, it remembers that... and remembers the deps are just klingons to be shot down if possible
01:27[~]Xenguy remembers the klingons in
01:27<Xenguy>TOS... hehe
01:27<twb>george: by default; it can be configured to NOT remove unneeded ~M packages.
01:27<streuner>twb: isnt that funny, i never had problems with apt?
01:28<george>you also never used "apt"...
01:28<twb>streuner: I don't know what you mean.
01:28<streuner>twb: How could you explain that for yourself?
01:28<george>unless you built the user interface that culus built...
01:28<Xenguy>there is no 'problem' with apt, it works fine -- there's just a new kid on the block =)
01:28<streuner>i mean, i didnt need that crap you mentioned as advantage...
01:28<twb>streuner: then by all means, don't use it.
01:29<george>streuner: so you used apt-get tho, right?
01:29<twb>streuner: you seem to be trying to pick a fight.
01:29<jae>When I do pstree, my xterm terminates... what could be causing it? (I've run pstree in Emacs, and don't get any error)
01:29<Xenguy>twb: think of it as a mosh pit :-)
01:30[~]streuner asking himself, why is someone care so much about advantages...
01:30<twb>streuner: because they save me an enourmous amount of typing.
01:30<streuner>twb: iam asking myself questions
01:30<george>then spel it "enormous" :)
01:30<twb>george: no, Americans do.
01:30<streuner>twb: apt-get install <package> is usually enough for me ;-)
01:30<twb>I am most vehemently NOT an American.
01:31<twb>streuner: then, as I said, do that.
01:31<george>twb: which you would consider a typing disadvantage, huh? :)
01:31<istoc>well, lshw is still going and theres nothing in the output I made
01:31<twb>george: I don't understand.
01:31<jae>Urgs, looks like an X restart is mandated... I get xterm crashing with "BadName (named color or font does not exist)"
01:31<george>then follow the conversation :)
01:31<twb>istoc: then kill it and pastebin the output when run as a normal user.
01:31<jae>Something's amiss, obviously
01:32<s0le>how to remove packages, without removing some it depences? i want to remove all exim4, but dont remove mutt.
01:32|-|freealan [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
01:32<istoc>ok, thanks
01:32<twb>s0le: aptitude keep mutt ~i~nexim4- ?
01:33<george>twb: ahh, you're neither american nor english...
01:33<twb>george: I'm mostly ethnic British.
01:33<chealer>s0le: you don't remove a package and keep its dependants, baring a very good reason
01:33<george>but my point from before is, if you use an extra letter (as the English do) to spell certain words, do you consider that a typing disadvantage?
01:33<Xenguy>s0le: dpkg has a remove/purge command - dunno if that helps in your situation
01:34<s0le>ok thanks
01:34<twb>george: why do you call it an `extra' letter
01:34<twb>george: ?
01:34<Xenguy>twb: I can see you as a british bloke
01:34<george>the shorter word is a typing advantage since it takes less keystrokes to type
01:34<twb>Not that I feel any respect or love for the latin writing system.
01:35<Xenguy>twb: would love to visit UK again sometime
01:35<twb>george: hardly; I can use M-/ for most words.
01:35<george>what's that do?
01:35<george>like tab completion?
01:35<twb>george: it completes the current word based on the other contents of the current buffer.
01:36<twb>For example, if were are talking about postmodernism, I can just type posM-/
01:36<george>so can't you do that with apt-get/aptitude?
01:37<twb>george: eh?
01:37<george>M-x shell :)
01:37<streuner>Wouldnt that be too much work, i mean you must raise the other finger ;-)
01:37<Xenguy>oh no, emacsen!
01:37<streuner>in areas where your finger isnt that much ;-)
01:38[~]Xenguy runs for cover...
01:38[~]george covers Xenguy with the entire content of all the emacs packages!
01:39<twb>aptitude search ~n-el$ ~Gemacs ~Demacsen ~Demacs
01:39<twb>(Example searching for names, dependencies, and tags all at once.)
01:40<george>now, we need to add up the deb file sizes
01:40<george>to see if we covered Xenguy effectively :)
01:40<twb>One moment, I think the -F command will do that
01:40<twb>*switch, rather
01:41<Xenguy>george: you do know that the good guys always win, don't you? =)
01:41<istoc>Hey, back again here's the output from lshw, thanks again
01:41<george>I wish that were true
01:42<Xenguy>me too
01:42<Xenguy>we can still be good guys when we can, can't we?
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01:44<twb>istoc: I see no audio output there.
01:44<istoc>how was the laptop ever outputting sound then lol?
01:46<twb>istoc: lshw is reporting what it can see. This need not be congruent with what is actually there.
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01:46<twb>That is, there might be a device there it can't see.
01:47<istoc>would hwinfo do any better?
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01:48<twb>It could be disabled in OF, or the cabling within the unit could have come loose, or the kernel you're running might not be able to see it because it's connected to (say) the southbridge in a way that confuses it.
01:48<twb>Since this is an iBook, which are generally well supported by Linux, I am most inclined to believe the former.
01:49<twb>Unfortunately I have no experience with hardware issues in OF; I only ever interacted with it for netbooting.
01:49<istoc>lemme see if I can find anything about the sound card in the ibook
01:50<twb>It may be worth googling for "linux laptop ibook" plus whatever unit names you can deduce
01:50<dpkg>laptop is probably All there is worth knowing about linux and laptops can be found at and and also ask me about <acpi> and <suspend>, or see the debian-laptop mailing list at For Thinkpads, ask me about <thinkpad>
01:51<tarelerulz>What is good p2p like limewire ?
01:51<twb>tarelerulz: limewire is not a good p2p, therefore your question is meaningless.
01:51<tarelerulz>twb , then what is it ? just asking
01:51<istoc>use bittorrent :)
01:52<tarelerulz>Well, my net is so slow the web pages don't come up they time out . that is why I wanted something like that.
01:53<twb>I don't think it's currently possible to tunnel HTTP over bittorrent.
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01:54<istoc>is gpio a type of device?
01:54<tarelerulz>I remember having something like gtk-gurella or something like that
01:55<twb>istoc: according to Wikipedia, "GPIO is an acronym for General Purpose Input/Output and is used in embedded electronics field. GPIO devices provide a set of IO ports that can be configured for either input or output, compounded by the resemblance to GP1 and GP0."
01:55<istoc>I found a post of someone trying to get their ibook to run bsd
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01:57<istoc>there wasn't too much info, hopefully I find some people trying to get linux to work on their ibook with more details
01:57<twb>Incidentally, ISTR that Limewire runs on GNU/Linux
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02:00<istoc>looks like it's usb audio
02:01<istoc>Do I just have to edit /etc/modules and reboot to add new modules?
02:04<cahoot>just modprobe
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02:05<antiq>всем привет
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02:08<istoc>Well, thanks again guys, Ill go read up on stuff, good night.
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02:08<sora>you bitch man
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02:09<sora>hey whats up man ?
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02:10<sora>hey what's up man
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03:16<Xenguy>why break it in the first place? run stable and be happy :-)
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03:45<doodoo>i just want to knwo how to unistall properly Gnome?
03:45<doodoo>apt-get remove gnome*?
03:47<gsimmons>!remove gnome
03:47<dpkg>apt-get --purge remove libgnome32 libgnome2-common (or ask me about <install gnome>), or after removing those, run 'aptitude' and look at section 'gnome' to remove the rest.
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03:50<doodoo>ok thanks
03:50<doodoo>why debian install per default gnome?
03:50<doodoo>i use the smartbuissnesscard for the installation
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03:55<nvu>please help me run gta sa in wine
03:55<gsimmons>doodoo: GNOME is installed if the "Desktop environment" task is selected during installation. A choice of desktop environment (eg. KDE) currently isn't possible in the installer. You can workaround this using preseeding or by specifying 'tasks="standard, kde-desktop"' at the installer's boot prompt.
03:56<nvu>wine gta_sa.exe - cannot find 800x600x32 video mode
03:57<doodoo>and if i want fluxbox,
03:57<doodoo>because it is for a vm
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04:00<doodoo>ok my debian is ko
04:00<doodoo>i install fluxbox
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04:00<doodoo>but when i boot on fluxbox i have a grey screen
04:00<doodoo>i have my mouse
04:00<nvu>who run gta sa?
04:00<doodoo>but the desktop disn't appear
04:01<doodoo>someone have an idea,
04:02<doodoo>i think that the better way is to reinstalle
04:02<doodoo>what is the best way
04:02<doodoo>reinstalle debian with gnome
04:02<doodoo>install fluxbox
04:02<doodoo>boot on fluxbox
04:02<doodoo>and remove gnome,
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04:07<gsimmons>nvu: Try asking in #winehq on
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04:10<nvu>dsimmons: ok
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04:39<hotchip>hi I have installed Apache 2.2.6 and it works well. But I have an Internet connection through a router with a Firewall. How can I let my website be accesible to others on the Internet?
04:40<tiCo>open port 80
04:40<Eulex>you have to forward port 80 to your server in the router
04:40<tiCo>aka add a NAT rule for this port to your machine
04:40<hotchip>Thanks tiCo and Eulex you are very nice to tell me what to do.
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04:41<hotchip>so I have to connect to my router and tell it to open port 80 right?
04:41<tiCo>hotchip: what brand is your router?
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04:43<hotchip>US. Robotics 5462
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04:44<hotchip>it is a wireless and ethernet router
04:45<tiCo>hmm no idea about it :-/
04:45<hotchip>I will try I 'll let you know
04:46<tiCo>good luck
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04:51<hotchip>>tiCo so now I am looking at a section where I see NAT. what should I do next?
04:51<keitherz>man wild connection
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04:51<george>is there a small device that has small mobo and case I can put a 3.5" hd into it (2.5" if I have to; too expensive if you ask me) that has 2 eth cards
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04:51<keitherz>every 13 seconds my connection close and opens
04:52<george>main thing is I could install debian on it and put like 256-512mb ram in
04:52<keitherz>even on the other OS and the other comp
04:52<keitherz>now i directed from my modem its working
04:52<keitherz>maybe my router is the problem
04:52<george>every 13 seconds a new kitten is born
04:52<george>oh, oops! off topic!
04:52<george>sorry :)
04:53<keitherz>and just earlier theres a cat that got
04:53<gsimmons>george: The Thecus N2100 could meet your requirements.
04:53<gsimmons>!tell george -about n2100
04:54<keitherz>whats that?
04:55<george>maybe one will be my new gateway router
04:55<george>so it has storage already
04:55<george>and it's broken only because the kernel it wants to install isn't actually avai8lable?
04:56<gsimmons>george: That's right. Easy enough to workaround however.
04:56<george>it has two separate eths too?
04:56<gsimmons>george: It does.
04:57<george>hmm, how much hd space?
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04:57<andrej>hello! witch program can i use to play HDDVD ?
04:58<cahoot>mplayer tends to be the generic answer
04:58<Eulex>well... if hddvd has been cracked
04:58<hotchip>I have a dynamic IP number. I want my router to allow Internet users access to my website. How should I setup the NAT ? any ideas? Thanks.
04:58<gsimmons>george: The hard drives are usually user-supplied.
04:59<Eulex>andrej, from a little googling, I learnt that you need to decrypt it before being able to play it.
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04:59<george>hotchip: set up networking on the box, set up the default route on the outgoing interface, set up the ingoing interface, install ipmasz
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05:00<george>err ipmasq
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05:00<hotchip>Thanks george
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05:00<andrej>Eulex: i downloaded it from internet so it should be decrypted :)
05:01<andrej>or not ??
05:01<george>the important things ipmasq package looks for, is to see what interfaces you have, looks for the one with the default route and assumes that's the outgoing one
05:01<Eulex>andrej, who knows, but both vlc and mplayer should be able to play a decrypted movie
05:02<george>but every time your external IP changes you have to tell ipmasq to recalculate the firewall
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05:02<grasn>konquerer sets his self always as default browser. how can i disbale this?
05:03<andrej>Eulex: with menu and all that ? ... i can play hddvd in mplayer but no picture... just sound..
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05:03<george>konkerer konkers
05:03<hotchip>thanks george . I see that it is no so easy to setup a web server using a dynamic IP service
05:04<jcciccio>i have a question(sorry for my english)i have to choose a linux but i don't know what is better to a little vaio PCG-C1XD
05:04<george>you really need a static ip or a service that has one
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05:05<hotchip>my ISP offers static IP number but at extra cost
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05:05<george>you can choose better/newer or you can choose older/"worthless"/"free from some guy who is throwing it out"
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05:06<george>hotchip: that's right, static costs
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05:07<keitherz>am i connected?
05:07<dpkg>Test Failed.
05:07<keitherz>yes im not connected!
05:07<hotchip>George: would a web server work despite the dynamic IP number if I tried using something like DynDNS?
05:08<george>here's the thing...
05:09<george>a server program of any kind (web, telnet, ssh, dns, mail, news, ldap, postgres, etc etc) has to pick an IP address to listen on
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05:09<Ikarus>george: no
05:09<george>if the box itself isn't that IP address, it will never get it
05:09<Ikarus>george: you can listen to (ANY)
05:10<Ikarus>which means it isn't bound to a specific IP
05:10<george>that;s an advanced topic
05:10<george>and I'm not there yet
05:10<Ikarus>george: no, it is a very BASIC feature
05:10<george>and I do not want to cloud the issue
05:10<george>ok, actually no problem
05:10<george>you help hom
05:10<hotchip>interesting topic
05:11<jcciccio>i'm sorry can i ask something?
05:11<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. when I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, or if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask (ask the whole channel!). We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer, ask later or ask
05:11<Ikarus>hotchip: what is the exact setup you want to do ? [internet] <-> router with NAT <-> webserver ?
05:11<jcciccio>i try some linux for vaio PCG-C1XD
05:11<hotchip>ikarus: yes that's it.
05:12<jcciccio>but the resolution is 1024x480
05:12<george>hotchip: have a good evening... I'm going for veggie soup :)
05:12<Ikarus>hotchip: okay, then you need to setup a port forward on the NAT box, bound to the external INTERFACE (ie, not an IP) to the internal webserver and get something like dyndns
05:12<hotchip>thanks george have a nice meal :)
05:14<hotchip>Ikarus: I have already dyndns and I am looking at the configuration option in the NAT section though I am stuck and I don't know what to do from there onwards.
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05:14<Ikarus>hotchip: just read up on iptables
05:14<jcciccio>some one know how to apply a screen resolution of 1024x480????
05:15<hotchip>Ikarus: in the NAT section I have the following Address Mapping, Virtual Server, Special application
05:15<Ikarus>hotchip: if the router is NOT a box running Linux, don't bother asking here
05:15<Ikarus>call the manufacturer
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05:16<hotchip>Ikarus: let me check
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05:26<dany>ciao a tutti
05:26<dany>c'è qualcuno che i può dare una mano?
05:26<dpkg>per aiuto in lingua italiana, provi il canale #debian-it sulla rete (non C'è anche il canale #linux-it là.
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06:23<IrIT>Which package/repos. would you recommend to enable playback of mpeg4 files and wmv?
06:24<supaman>but only if you are in a country that doesnt have software patents
06:25<IrIT>I am - Denmark. Have added that repos. but i cant install gstreamer0.8-xvid
06:25<IrIT>Depends on libgstreamer0.8-0, and it can't be installed.
06:25<supaman>hmmm ...
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06:26<IrIT>My error message is in danish, so i'm just translating them. One sec.
06:26<azeem>IrIT: export LANC=C
06:26<azeem>don't translate, set the errors to english
06:27<IrIT>export LANC=C should i type that before the aptitude command (on the same line?
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06:27<azeem>on the same line, do "LANG=C aptitude ..."
06:29<IrIT>Hmm, weird. It's still in danish.
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06:29<azeem>then run "export LANG=C" before aptitude maybe
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06:32<keitherz>ok back to my problem
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06:32<keitherz>xserver-xorg cant start
06:33<keitherz>anyone in here?
06:33<IrIT>Sorry about that - Power failure
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06:34<keitherz>no one can help
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06:34<IrIT>Hmm, i has only waited on about 3 minutes and then he quits.
06:34<fxiny>just 2 minutes ? hire a professional next if you are busy !
06:35<IrIT>*he has
06:35<IrIT>Anyway, could i please get the command again. To change the langauge of aptitude?
06:36<fxiny>check /etc/environment
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06:36<IrIT>It's empty.
06:36|-|someone_new [] has quit []
06:37<fxiny>i supected it
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06:38<IrIT>Aptitude errors etc. is in danish. I just want to change it to english, so you guys in here can help me:)
06:38<fxiny>try this one : LANG=C LC_ALL=C dpkg-reconfigure -plow locales
06:39<fxiny>IrIT: i dislike utf8 so my /etc/environment reads > LANG="en_US"
06:39<IrIT>fxiny, will it also change Gnomes language?
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06:42<IrIT>Ran reconfigure locales and generated en_us and set that as the default language. It is however still danish
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06:42<fxiny>what's in environment ? still nothing ?
06:43<seanius>petemc: you don't play warhawk do you
06:43<monra>i'm trying to find where the encrypted passwords are but not able to find them. tried /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow. A friend told me maybe in my own home directory. where should i look for?
06:43<fxiny>last i moved all my utf8 to normal i had to edit manually
06:43<monra>any ideas would be helpful
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06:44<seanius>user passwords are usualy in /etc/shadow
06:45<IrIT>Finally! English langauge now
06:45<IrIT>"LANG=en_US aptitude install gstreamer0.8-xvid" did the job. I'm paste it at pastebin
06:45<petemc>seanius: i dont, not much of a gamer
06:46<seanius>petemc: k... was playing with a petemc last night so thought i'd check :)
06:46<monra>seanius, but isn't
06:46<fxiny>IrIT: add LANG="en_US" to your /etc/environment
06:46<fxiny>lemme see
06:46<petemc>ah :)
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06:46<monra>h0Iv6M40b4aVM: could that be a password?
06:46<IrIT>And when i try to install the virtual package i get: "No candidate version found for libgstreamer0.8-0"
06:48<fxiny>IrIT: so you reconfigured but no LANG="en_US" on your /etc/environment ?
06:48<IrIT>Yes. Although that is not really the problem now.
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06:49<IrIT>I only want it to be english now, because it's easier for you to help me then
06:50<monra>could the has i gave be a password?
06:51<fxiny>won't be difficult to descramble it :P
06:51<monra>petemc, as i don't see $1$ seems it isn't md5 encrypted, right? is there a function, a command where i can encrypt texts?
06:51<IrIT>Anyway, do anyone know what the problem might be:
06:52<monra>-bash: mkpasswd: command not found
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06:52<fxiny>IrIT: add as i told you , logo out/in
06:53<IrIT>Oh sorry, must have missed that reply :-/
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06:53<fxiny>IrIT: no it's me m i'm playing too much :)
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06:53<IrIT>Can't see why it should help though?
06:53<IrIT>heh :)
06:53<IrIT>The problem isn't my language but gstreamer.
06:54<fxiny>lemme boot a gnome box
06:54<fxiny>i'm a proud flux user
06:54<monra>ok . this may sound silly. but i thought that each encrypted string has a hash. the same string has the same hash
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06:56<IrIT>Oh, gotta go now. They're turning of the power in the house in a sec :_/
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06:57<S3v3N>Hello people. Maybe not a debian question but anyway I'll try to ask here. I'm always using MSN 7.5 because Windows Live Msn sux... anyway when I open MSN 7.5 and try to login it always gives me error that I need to update my msn to Live Msn or I cannot login... are there any crack to get rid of it or I really need to use Live Msn? Because Live Msn is really freezing on my computer...
06:58<monra>S3v3N, get pidgin
06:58<fxiny>no idea : i use bitlbee
06:58<seanius>definitely not OT for this channel
06:58<seanius>er, definitely OT
06:58<fxiny>why ? he doesn't know of bitlbee i guess
06:59<monra>S3v3N, you can login to your msn account from there
06:59<fxiny>S3v3N: you can communicate with msn icq yahoo via a bitlbee gw from you irc client
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07:01<fxiny>S3v3N: and if you run a vserver like i do you can install bitlbee in a vserver ;)
07:01<monra>does anybody know about my hash questions? doesn't same strings create same hashes?
07:01<fxiny>windows users can only dream of this :P
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07:02<petemc>monra: no
07:02<monra>petemc, then how does computer know i'm giving a correct password ? I thought it makes it has and then check if the same
07:03<S3v3N>fxiny: what is vserver?
07:03<fxiny>S3v3N: is a patch to a kernel : debian make this so nice to install > 2.6.18-5-vserver-686
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07:04<petemc>monra: pass, no idea
07:04<petemc>im surfe wikipedia knows
07:04<monra>couldn't undserastand from wiki
07:04<S3v3N>fxiny: nice nice but i really don't have clue how i would install that :D i have debian server but don't know if i'll go this way
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07:05<fxiny>S3v3N: you can run bitlbee in a normal system
07:05|-|dpkg [] has joined #debian
07:05<fxiny>S3v3N: just to let you know we (debian users) have so many options :)
07:05<fxiny>and all f* good !
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07:09<fxiny>S3v3N: i don't know anything about msn versions , all i can say to you is : i can connect to some unenlightened ppl via bitlbee from my irssi
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07:10<fxiny>so they can bother me "flashing" from a irssi msg window :P
07:11<fxiny>and they do not see my irssi nick :))
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07:21<kurumin>speak portuguese
07:21<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
07:22<dpkg>Esse canal e apenas em ingles. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
07:22<israel>do you know any good movie channel?
07:22<JasonS>israel: superstation
07:22<fxiny>velvet ?
07:22<JasonS>movie network
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07:23<israel>not for downloading, just for knowing a movie title that i can not remember
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07:23<israel>might be you know tha movie
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07:24<israel>is about a guy that drives a car, suddenly it blows when he was about to win, but instead of diying is teleported to the future, and the future guys want him to rip his organs...
07:24<israel>quite old movie
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07:25<JasonS>israel: this has what to do with debian?
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07:25<israel>not, it has not, xddd
07:25<israel>just triying luck, sorry
07:25|-|Swissgent [] has joined #debian
07:25<israel>thanks and good afternoon
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07:27[~]fxiny "smiles a toothless grin"
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07:31[~]petemc does too
07:32<petemc>well, im missing one tooth, some fuckers kicked it out
07:34<fxiny>mine is from Siouxie israel :)
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07:34<fxiny>case i think i've seen that movie
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07:37<monra>petemc there must be another command for creating hashes
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07:41<petemc>monra: i use perl
07:42<monra>petemc, i use python :P
07:42<petemc>fantastic then
07:42<fxiny>the war is open : perl rulez
07:42<monra>just found
07:43<monra>petemc, i din;t thought of making it through programming language
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07:52<fxiny>part ?
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08:21<damien>i modified my /etc/passwd in order to make my account in root
08:21<damien>so i change 1000:1000 in 0:0
08:21[~]weasel shakes head
08:21<weasel>are you out of your mind or just plain stupid?
08:21|-|DocTrax [] has joined #debian
08:21<damien>but now i didn't log with this account
08:22<damien>may be stupid
08:22<damien>sure stupid now
08:22<damien>there is an issue to modifiate my account
08:22<damien>or i need to reinstalle?
08:23<weasel>change it back.
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08:24<damien>how to change it? ctrl Alt F4 and use vi to change
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08:24<Nemoder>if you can't login then you'll have to use a rescue disc
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08:25<damien>no it is ok
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08:25<FlyBye>Hi - I need to change some partitions from xp or vista in order to access a fat partition with knoppix - any tips for a free proggy to do this?
08:25<damien>ctrl Alt F4 and change the /etc/passwd with vi
08:25<FlyBye>need to reduce size of an existing htfs part. and creat a fat partition..
08:25<FlyBye>gpart did not work
08:25<damien>i do this because
08:25<FlyBye>part. magic did not work.
08:26<FlyBye>any tips?
08:26<damien>when i use su i don't have the completion
08:26<fxiny>pmagic failed ? good news
08:26<gsimmons>!tell FlyBye -about knoppix
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08:27<FlyBye>I can run knoppix - but dont know how to manage the partitions from the knoppix live environment - there is no fat partition to install/save anything too at the moment...
08:27<FlyBye>gsimmons.. did you get that...?
08:27<fxiny>i did
08:28<fxiny>but you are on knoppix ; no idea how knoppix sorts dosfstools out
08:28<FlyBye>fxiny - any ideas.. can I run gparted from within the knoppix live situation without already haveing acess to a fat partition safely...?
08:28<FlyBye>if yes -how to do?
08:28<cahoot>FlyBye: slim chance to get any support for vistamanipulation here
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08:29<victor>how to remove a non-empty directory
08:29<FlyBye>not really looking for anything visa related - just want to resize a ntfs partition and make a fat partition to use with debian/knoppix???
08:29<victor>How to remove a non-empty directory?
08:29<cahoot>FlyBye: gparted did the job for me
08:29<FlyBye>knoppix is full of warnings not to write with it to a ntfs partiton...
08:29<Nemoder>gparted should be able to resize an ntfs partition
08:29<doodoo>why it is so omplicate to install a software on debian contrary to ubuntu
08:30<Nemoder>you should backup your data regardless though when playing with partitions
08:30<fxiny>gparted wants dosfstools to create fat partitions
08:30<cahoot>FlyBye: gparted is available as a liveCD
08:30<FlyBye>i have gparted live but it says that my sata h-disk where the ntfs needs changing is not assigned - unknow file ssystem etc...
08:30<doodoo>for exemple for install powertop on ubuntu i have juste to make a apt-get install powertop
08:30<FlyBye>I have a raid-sata controller perhaps that is part of the problem...
08:30<doodoo>but on debian i need to download each paquet of each dependencies....
08:30<cahoot>doodoo: it is?
08:30<FlyBye>fxiny - may I pm you???
08:31<doodoo>cahoot, why the sourcelist of debian is so small?
08:31<fxiny>FlyBye: i already told you all i know
08:31<cahoot>doodoo: it's up to you to fix that
08:31<Nemoder>doodoo: powertop is not included in the stable version of debian
08:31<doodoo>cahoot, i need to install the flashplayer but he is not on the list
08:32<fxiny>FlyBye: i hate pmagic and i believe gparted live is an excellent tool
08:32<doodoo>cahoot, apt-cache search flashplayer find no one
08:32<cahoot>doodoo: you probably want non-free an contrib
08:32<doodoo>cahoot, you know may be where find a source.list full
08:32<FlyBye>cahoot - I have the gparted live cd - but it does not assign the sata disk - cannot do anything with it - displays that it is there but does not know what file system is on it and is somehow not active...???
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08:33<doodoo>cahoot, i'm sorry but i'm new in debian but i use ubuntu since 1 year
08:33<Nemoder>!tell doodoo -about nonfree
08:33<cahoot>FlyBye: yes I noticed - obviously vista has some extra quirks
08:33<doodoo>cahoot, and in ubuntu i'm not lost
08:34<FlyBye>vista is not installed on that sata hdisk/partition it is on another disk...
08:34<doodoo>cahoot, i don't say that i'm lost in debian but the changing is quiet hard
08:34<FlyBye>vista can access the sata disk but is not running from it...
08:34<FlyBye>I probably need some cheat code when starting gparted live - but dont know my way arrouind that...?
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08:35<FlyBye>I might just try it again - perhaps gparted will start a bit different - you never know - pigs can sometimes fly.. heheh
08:35<cahoot>doodoo: FWIW my sources.list essentially looks like: deb testing main non-free contrib
08:35<FlyBye>c u cahoot - thanks for your tips... bye now...
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08:36<cahoot>doodoo: change .se and testing to whatever is relevant for you
08:36<doodoo>cahoot, just add this lign on my source.list?
08:36<fxiny>FlyBye: checked ?
08:36<noflash>doodoo, try stuff comes with documentation
08:37<doodoo>.se? is i'm in france it is fr?
08:37<cahoot>doodoo: no this just informational
08:37<doodoo>cahoot, ok
08:37<doodoo>cahoot, may be i find a full source.list on google
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08:37<doodoo>cahoot, thanks for your help
08:38<Nemoder>doodoo: you might try installing synaptic and using it to manage your repositories
08:38<FlyBye>fxiny - how do I install dosfstools....?
08:38<doodoo>Nemoder, what's repositories?
08:38<Nemoder>doodoo: servers that store debian's packages
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08:39<FlyBye>is it done with a cheatcode when booting gparted live???
08:39<cahoot>doodoo: you really want to lokk at the debian reference
08:39<doodoo>cahoot, i don't understand?
08:39<Nemoder>doodoo: synaptic has an interface to let you choose which servers to use, or you can edit your sources.list manually but you'll want to read the documentation
08:39<gsimmons>!tell doodoo -about reference
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08:40<doodoo>Nemoder, yes in fact i search all of server in order to install with synaptic (apt-get) but not in find all package on the net and fnd dependencies
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08:40<Nemoder>doodoo: apt-get install synaptic
08:40<doodoo>Nemoder, synaptic is already installed
08:41<doodoo>Nemoder, i sorry for my english i hope that you understant me
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08:41<Nemoder>doodoo: run synaptic and goto settings/repositories
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08:41<doodoo>Nemoder, in fact i find a way to install easy all of my soft
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08:43<doodoo>Nemoder, like in ubuntu where all of source is find because my source list is full
08:43<doodoo>Nemoder, when i use ubuntu i never go on a site and tel some source in order to install a package
08:43<Nemoder>you are wanting to install from CDs you mean?
08:44<doodoo>Nemoder, that why i find a full source.list
08:44<doodoo>Nemoder, no, i want to install all via synaptic ok?
08:44<doodoo>Nemoder, but in the default source.list all of .deb is not here
08:45<doodoo>Nemoder, like powertop for exemple
08:45<Nemoder>doodoo: yes, you need to add nonfree and contrib
08:45<doodoo>ok :)
08:45<Nemoder>powertop is not in debian stable
08:45<doodoo>Nemoder, and it is a real problem?
08:46<Nemoder>adobe's flash is in nonfree
08:46<doodoo>Nemoder, powertop is running perfecty in ubuntu
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08:46<Nemoder>powertop is not included in debian, unless you use testing or unstable versions
08:46<Nemoder>ubuntu releases more often thus they have newer software
08:47<doodoo>ok so tell me that ubuntu is up to date contrary to debian?
08:47<FlyBye>could somebody send me the -about knoppix message again please...
08:47<FlyBye>I mistakenly closed the window before...
08:47<gsimmons>doodoo: A 'powertop' package for Etch is available from however.
08:48<fxiny>!tell FlyBye -about knoppix
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08:48<doodoo>gsimmons, what is the difference between a debian and a ubuntu
08:49<doodoo>they have both the same kernel?
08:49<doodoo>the same gnome?
08:49<doodoo>what is the difference
08:49<fxiny>you running ubu so you should know
08:49<gsimmons>doodoo: One is derived from the other.
08:50<Nemoder>ubuntu releases every 6 months, debian releases every 1-2 years
08:50<doodoo>ok so normaly debian is powerful thant ubuntu
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08:50<fxiny>debian is a legend ubu will never be
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08:50<doodoo>ok so if i want a system up to date ubuntu is better?
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08:50<JasonS>doodoo: not at all, its a matter of personal choice
08:51<Nemoder>if you want an up to date debian, you would need to run testing or unstable version
08:51<Nemoder>because debian has slower releases it is better tested and less likely to have problems (in theory)
08:52<doodoo>i want to go on debian because it is more used in the "world job"
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08:52<doodoo>and because ubuntu take so much ram
08:53<doodoo>but some things seems more powerful in ubuntu
08:53<Nemoder>if powertop is your main concern then use the backport as gsimmons suggested
08:53<doodoo>for example my wifi card is recognise
08:53<doodoo>in the installation
08:54<doodoo>i do want i want "easily" on ubuntu but in debian is more difficult
08:55<fxiny>power power : is always the bastard hardware vendors issue
08:55<fxiny>you pay and they play with your rights
08:56<doodoo>thanks for your help
08:56<Nemoder>doodoo: debian has a much more strict policy on excluding software that is not free, that includes drivers for wifi cards
08:56<doodoo>nice day
08:57<doodoo>Nemoder, ok but i want to use my wifi card, so for use it i need to go on internet find an issue, and i have lost 1h is all is ok... thanks for the policy!
08:58<gsimmons>doodoo: See also sections 2.6.1 and 2.6.2 of the installation guide.
08:58<doodoo>ok :)
08:58<doodoo>nice day
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09:06<jaimono>hi there
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09:19<jaimono>I installed lenny in a dell inspiron 1420, not the one with ubuntu but the one dell sells for latinamerica. I found out how to make the sound and iwlwifi work but I don't know how to make suspend and hibernate work, can someone help me please? I don't have a clue and I can't find anything useful in inet
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09:19<cahoot>jaimono: not even on or
09:20<victor>how to make my system support ‘unlink’ for nonempty directories?
09:22<jaimono>cahoot, everyone says it works out of the box
09:23<jaimono>there is no info about how the ubuntu guys make it work, I don't even know how to diagnose the problem
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09:24<jaimono>It seems like the good old howto's days are gone, there seems to be a great lack of good documentation since the advent of dbus
09:24<Ikarus>jaimono: dbus is a nightmare
09:24<Ikarus>It just does NOT fit in the Unix philosophy
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09:25<emilos>Hi. I have a problem. I have a computer with intell celeron cpu its with 533mhz. its a old computer and it haves 300-400 MB ram which port shall i choose? AMD64 or i386 or IA64 ?
09:26<Ikarus>nothing else will run on it
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09:26<emilos>Are you shure? last time a having a problem with that. with error code 23 in start
09:27<emilos>and i installet with 1. cd 650MB
09:27<Ikarus>emilos: IA64 is for Itanium CPUs and AMD64 is for x86-64 CPUs (modern AMD and Intel)
09:27<weasel>emilos: if you think amd64 or ia64 would work on that you could also give mipsel, m68k or alpha a try
09:27<weasel>not that they will work, but hey
09:28<emilos>okay.. whats the difference?
09:28<weasel>different architectures.
09:28<Ikarus>emilos: they are all for different computer/CPU architectures
09:28<emilos>okay. my computer is a acer computer
09:28<Ikarus>you need i386
09:28<weasel>your computer is using an x86 intel cpu.
09:29<weasel>so you need i386
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09:29<emilos>okay. thanks. how can i se that my computer using x86 cpu?
09:29<weasel>how about reading the documentation?
09:29<weasel>I'm sure it's discussed somewhere in the installer manual, the debian user manual or a thousand places on the net
09:30<weasel>or you could just take our word for it
09:30<Napta>cat /proc/cpuinfo
09:30<weasel>we said it like 3 times now
09:30<weasel>surely it must be true
09:30<Eulex>emilos, a celeron cpu is an intel x86-based cpu
09:30<emilos>okay.. i trying that again. but with net install right?
09:31<emilos>well, thank you for that.
09:32<emilos>mipsel, m68k or alpha a try
09:32<emilos><weasel> not that they will work, but hey
09:32<emilos><emilos> okay.. whats the difference?
09:32<emilos>but what is mipsel, m68k or alpha used to?
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09:33<weasel>they are different type of computers
09:33<Eulex>computers with other types of cpus
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09:33<weasel>come on, ever heard of google or wikipedia?
09:33<witte>emilos: there are more computers than the ones you can buy on the nearby shop
09:33<emilos>yes I have
09:33<weasel>ever used them?
09:33<Eulex>for example apple used powerpc (ppc) cpus in their macintoshes for a loooong time
09:33<emilos>some times
09:33<weasel>great. now is another time you can go practice using them
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09:35<jaimono>all the info I found is about ubuntu and it says that suspend-hibernate works out of the box, how can I make it work in lenny? which package is responsible for that?
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09:35<witte>jaimono: which kernel do you use, make sure that you have the latest one
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09:36<jaimono>I'm using 2.6.22-2
09:37<witte>jaimono: ok, that is new enough...
09:37<jaimono>that is the last one for lenny
09:37<victor>Please help. Is there a command to delete non-empty folders?
09:37<jaimono>maybe I must add my user to some group
09:37<petemc>victor: rm -rf folder - be careful with that
09:38<victor>thank you very much.
09:38<witte>jaimono: could be, I am not really familiar with hibernate stuff...
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09:38<victor>petemc: thank you.
09:39<jaimono>usually a README.Debian tells me how to fix it but I don't know which package handles it
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09:40<ChaosR>how do I change the mount command kde/konqueror uses to mount ntfs partitions
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09:41<jaimono>ok, it seems to be the powerdev group
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09:47<victor>I am learning Linux. what does it mean to delete recursively?
09:47<telemachus>it means "Be careful"
09:47<weasel>a directory including all its subdirectories and files below it
09:47<telemachus>more seriously it means to delete the outermost folder, any folder in it, any folder in that etc
09:47<ChaosR>how do I change the mount command kde/konqueror uses to mount ntfs partitions, someone?
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09:48<victor>telemachus: thank you.
09:48<petemc>ChaosR: /etc/fstab controls how partitions are mounted, i presume kde respects that
09:48<telemachus>victor: no worries
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09:49<telemachus>victor: if you are using rm from the command line as a regular user, you will see that it has some built in safeties to protect you from accidentally deleting too much
09:49<petemc>it does?
09:50<telemachus>petemc: well, in the sense that it won't normally allow you to delete a directory just by entering rm directory_name
09:50<petemc>the command i told victor has no such protection
09:50<telemachus>did you give him rm -rf?
09:50<petemc>14:37 < petemc> victor: rm -rf folder - be careful with that
09:50<jaimono>ok, hibernate seems to be working fine but suspend locks and i must restart, anyway I'm only interested in hibernate but it is like a itch I can't scratch when I know something is broken in my system :(
09:50<telemachus>if so, the protection I mean is that you have to type -rf
09:51<telemachus>another trick I like is to type the -rf only after the directory name
09:51<victor>telemachus: yeah, I used rm -rf.
09:51<telemachus>rm directory_name -rf
09:51<telemachus>that way, you can double check the directory name BEFORE you enter -rf
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09:51<telemachus>not every version of rm allows that order, but the gnu one on Debian does
09:52<petemc>i dont see a huge benefit in that..
09:52<telemachus>petemc: how about this one then - rm / directory_name -rf
09:52<telemachus>note the extra space
09:52<victor>petemc, thank you for reminding. It's just a annoying folder I extraceted from a tar ball, which failed to be removed normally.
09:53<telemachus>if I had already entered rm -rf / directory_name...
09:53<telemachus>(and I was root, blah blah blah)
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09:56<victor>from a textbook: When you execute a command as root user, even an extra space could case catastrophic results, for example if 'rm -R test1/test2' is written as 'rm -R test1 / test2' this will remove 'test1' and every thing and 'test2'. Double read what your type before you press ENTER.
09:57<telemachus>victor: yes, it's the "and everything" you have to be careful about :)
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09:59<victor>telemachus, yeah. I usually don't use that /, instead cd to the directory first.
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10:02<kurumin>Ei doido!
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10:04<monra>I'm using grep to find a string in a 250,000 lines text ... and as i see from grep this string exists ... how can i find in which line it is?
10:05<telemachus>grep -n
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10:05<telemachus>should print a line number before your output
10:06<monra>telemachus, ok thanks. and something else... i open vi editor and see in my text some like this ^M with blue color ... any ideas what could it be?
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10:07<telemachus>monra: not off the top of my head, no
10:07<fxiny>microsoft carriage
10:07<fxiny>flip -uvsb file will sort it out or get a sed oneliner
10:07<telemachus>fxiny: yup, I just got there via google
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10:08<telemachus>monra: not to be a dick but man grep + google are your friends :)
10:08<monra>and how can i get throught it?
10:09<monra>telemachus, yeah maybe but these are difficults to find. for examle delete all the ^M ... any ideas?
10:09<telemachus>monra: the first three hits for google ^m character are about deleting that in vi
10:09<telemachus>monra: recount, the first five hits
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10:10<telemachus>and my search was pretty caveman: I just entered "^M" initially in the Google search bar
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10:11<fxiny>monra: don't delete amything . google for a sed oneliner or install flip : flip -uvsb file
10:12<fxiny>sed -e 's/.$//' file_windoze > our_file
10:12<fxiny>but i prefere flip
10:12<monra>fxiny, ok just installing it. thanks
10:13<monra>how silly i'am i cannot install it
10:13<fxiny>sometimes wgetting/appendig to files i have this nasty windows reminders so i just flip 'em up
10:14<fxiny>monra: or you can play with emacs as well :)
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10:14<monra>really appreciate
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10:30<YbeddyJ>is there a tool to autobuild fstab?
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10:31<YbeddyJ>yes like auto create fstab on reboots base on disk changes
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10:36<victor>How do I move from gnome to kde?
10:37<victor>no offense to gnome fans.
10:38<victor>I just need it to use a software--bibletime.
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10:42<avu>victor: there is basicly no software which you can't use under gnome. only downside it that if it's written for kde, it will look different from your other applications and maybe load a few kde background services
10:42<ajs>Has anybody noticed the libc6 package in unstable (2.7-1) segfaulting on AMD64?
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10:43<Eulex>ajs, if it does, file a bug
10:44<YbeddyJ>is there a program that auto setup fstab?
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10:44<YbeddyJ>a script or something like that maybe?
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10:46<twb>YbeddyJ: you mean for removable media?
10:46<victor>avu, so do I have to do anything additional after the installation of the software? i.e. install kde related packages?
10:46<twb>For a modern desktop system, there would never be an fstab entry for removable media -- at least usb mass storage and ieee1394 sbp2 devices.
10:46<YbeddyJ>for everything, i usually add and remove hdds from my system quite often so i need a utility to do so
10:47<twb>They get added magically by HAL.
10:47<twb>YbeddyJ: ah, that's different.
10:47<avu>victor: noo
10:47<twb>YbeddyJ: I do it infrequently enough that I just write it by hand with reference to /proc/partitions and parted -s print /dev/sdx
10:47<avu>victor: apt-get install bibletime will install everything needed to run bibletime
10:48<avu>victor: so after issuing said command, you can run it, for example using alt+f2, then typing 'bibletime' in gnome
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10:51<victor>avu, bash:Package bibletime is not available, but is referred to by another package. This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or is only available from another source
10:53<avu>victor: yeah, I though you knew the name of the package yourself and just took it from what you said..
10:53<avu>victor: I have no idea what bibletime even is..
10:54<avu>victor: are you using stable or testing?
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10:55<avu>victor: seems to tell me bibletime is only available in unstable, not even testing and certainly not stable
10:56<YbeddyJ>twb, my problem is that i wanted to make sure my changes always conform to lsb
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10:56<victor>avu, so what should I do? download it directly from the web?
10:56<victor>and then use dpkg?
10:56<avu>victor: I don't think the unstable binary package will install on stable
10:56<victor>avu, I am just a newbie, not familiar with dpkg.
10:56<YbeddyJ>twb, i'm new to debian this is my first bootup actually
10:57<avu>!tell victor about easy sid backport
10:57<YbeddyJ>the other distro i used had a script called rebuildfstab i'm wondering if i could just copy it over
10:58<avu>victor: read what dpkg just sent you
10:58<avu>victor: it tells you how to port the sid package to stable (which will likeley work but could fail)
10:58<avu>victor: the url you gave me does not provide any aditional information as far as I can see?
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11:00<victor>avu, what is backport? i don't know how to ask dpkg this.
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11:00<avu>!tell victor about easy sid backport
11:00<avu>victor: you don't have to ask, it's already been told to you. twice.
11:00<victor>yeah, i saw that.
11:01<victor>avu, i just don't know what backport means.
11:01<dpkg>i heard backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and ABI complications. or or or ask me about <simple sid backport> and <backport caveat>, or <>
11:01<avu>victor: in your case, making the unstable package run on stable
11:01<fxiny>is like a time warp : a deb from the future
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11:02<avu>anyway, I have to go cook for the family now, good luck victor
11:02<victor>avu, it's nice of you
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11:10<victor>if I switch to kde, can debian packages still be used on the computer?
11:10<telemachus>bibletime? there's a package named bibletime?
11:11<victor>telemachus, good to see you again.
11:11<telemachus>ok, I'll bite - what's it do?
11:11<telemachus>victor: thanks
11:11<cahoot>resets the clock?
11:11<victor>telemachus, it's bible study tool.
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11:11<telemachus>victor: gotcha
11:12<telemachus>cahoot: touche
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11:13<victor>telemachus,, it says kde is a must.
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11:13<telemachus>victor: yah I just Googled for it
11:14<victor>telemachus, really good to have you warm-hearted people here.
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11:15<telemachus>victor: it is built as a KDE desktop app, so that makes sense though you can run many KDE items in other environments if you install various libraries with it (aptitude/apt-get will often do that automatically for you)
11:15<telemachus>me, warm-hearted?
11:15<victor>telemachus, well as far as I can see.
11:16<victor>so you mean I can just skip the kde part and do the installation?
11:16<telemachus>victor: what desktop environment do you have? Gnome?
11:16<victor>telemachus, yeah.
11:17<telemachus>victor: ok, well, the one problem is that it's available right now only for Sarge or Sid
11:17<fxiny>so apt-cache search bible > gnomesword
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11:17<telemachus>victor: so now I see why people were talking to you about backports
11:17<telemachus>victor: I was only half-tuned in earlier
11:18<victor>telemachus, that's ok.
11:18<telemachus>fxiny: right, the bibletime package is built on the sword libraries, so that makes sense
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11:18<telemachus>Sword libraries - a while world I never heard of
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11:18<victor>fxiny, what is gnomesword, it is the same with bibletime?
11:19<YbeddyJ>is there a way to auto add repos to sources.list
11:19<fxiny>telemachus: i can see someting about sword on the page
11:19<YbeddyJ>or is there a utility that auto get a list of repos and alow you to select the one you want?
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11:20<telemachus>fxiny: yup, that's what I saw
11:20<YbeddyJ>is there a way to auto add repos to sources.list or is there a utility that auto get a list of repos and alow you to select the one you want?
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11:21<fxiny>victor: i'm not a bible expert but you can search for anyting by typing : apt-cache <yourserach > and after that apt-cache show gnomesword will tell you more
11:21<telemachus>victor: gnomesword sounds very similar, and it looks like it is available for etch and lenny
11:21<muep>YbeddyJ: why don't you just set them in sources.list?
11:21<telemachus>victor: but to go back to the earlier issue, if you want a kde app, you can generally install it in gnome and apt-get or aptitude will automatically insall the necessary kde libraries to run it
11:22<muep>YbeddyJ: you usually don't need to change repositories very often
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11:22<victor>telemachus, i see.
11:22<YbeddyJ>i'm new to debian and i dont know the repos yet
11:22<fxiny>telemachus: apt-cache search sword | grep bible ;)
11:23<YbeddyJ>threre is only two in my list
11:23<YbeddyJ>dvd and another
11:23<telemachus>victor: I haven't done it in a while, but I used to do that for amarok and it worked just fine
11:24<telemachus>victor: to avoid library bloat, I usually try to find a similar gnome tool first, but it's not really a huge deal to have kde apps on a gnome system and vice-versa
11:24<muep>YbeddyJ: you maybe want to get rid of the dvd source and replace it with a repository on the net
11:24<telemachus>fxiny: yup, thanks - though I prefer this: aptitude search ~dbible | grep sword
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11:25<muep>YbeddyJ: is the other other repo you mentioned the security repo?
11:26<YbeddyJ>i'dd like to add other for eg restricted or non oss repos
11:26<YbeddyJ>if available
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11:27<muep>YbeddyJ: there is, but you should select a repo near you
11:27<YbeddyJ>in googling for a list of repos right now
11:27<victor>telemachus, I hope so. bibletime seems to have more resources.
11:28<YbeddyJ>no luck thoug
11:28<muep>YbeddyJ: I think there is a mirror list on
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11:28<YbeddyJ>ok going there now
11:28<telemachus>victor: fair enough, but as I said bibletime seems unavailable for etch and lenny
11:28<muep>YbeddyJ: I'm short of a web browser right now, can't help with that
11:28<telemachus>victor: have you check backports yet?
11:28<fxiny>telemachus: oh that's ok yeahhhh :)
11:29<victor>telemachus, i don't know how.
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11:29<victor>telemachus, i'm not a geek yet.
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11:30<telemachus>victor: fair enough - one moment, please, phone - take a look here though
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11:32<YbeddyJ>not finding it
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11:32<Eulex>!tell victor about simple sid backport
11:32<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, debian mirrors is or | ask me about <apt-setup> or <apt-spy> | to make a mirror, see
11:32<Eulex>YbeddyJ, ^^
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11:34<fxiny>telemachus: get this one : aptitude search ~P~n^sword ;)
11:35<Eulex>!wayttd YbeddyJ
11:35<dpkg>What Are You Trying To Do, YbeddyJ?
11:35<YbeddyJ>just checking what this bot has
11:35<cahoot>YbeddyJ: sounds like ubuntuspeak
11:35<Eulex>YbeddyJ, if you want to ask the bot stuff, please /msg it
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11:37<muep>YbeddyJ: did you find a suitable repository ?
11:37<fxiny>telemachus: and this super 3117 one : aptitude search ~ngnome~Dsword ( explanation : gnome > dependency sword )
11:38<YbeddyJ>i'm trying using netseletc-apt
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11:40<YbeddyJ>i'm gonna use the us one netselect-apt complains about firewall i'm not behind any so cant bother
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11:45<rkos>with what program can i add permanent subtitles to a .mp4 file?
11:46<victor>Eulex, have I added the right line?
11:46<victor>deb-src sid/updates main non-free contrib
11:46<fxiny>security sid ?
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11:46<Eulex>victor, there is no security repo for sid.
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11:47<victor>eulex wants you to know: First: See if the package has already been backported. Ask me about <backports>. If it hasn't, 1) Add a deb-src line for sid to your sources.list. 2) apt-get update 3) apt-get build-dep packagename;apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs.
11:47<fxiny>nor for non-free contrib
11:47<Eulex>victor, for sid, not sid/updates.
11:47<victor>Eulex, so it's deb-src sid
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11:48<Eulex>victor, no.
11:49<Eulex>victor, take a _normal_ (non-security) deb line, make it deb-src instead of deb, change it to say sid instead of stable/etch/whatever
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11:53<rkos>anyone know about mp4 and adding permanent subtitles?
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11:53<rkos>or should i convert it to avi first, but with what do i do that
11:53<keyz>do you know a way to use multimedia keys when the screensaver is running?
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11:54<rkos>me? no, can't even get my multimedia keys to work
11:54<telemachus>fxiny: nice trick for searching with dependencies - thanks
11:54<YbeddyJ>where do i get the list of available areas eg stable testing contrib etc?
11:55<keyz>rkos, easy to to with gnome or enlightenment .. maybe you didn't choose the good keyboard map
11:55<Eulex>YbeddyJ, firstly, you should understand that stable and testing is a _release_, while contrib is a _section_
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11:55<rkos>well yeah i'll see about that some other time, right now i'm trying to add permanent subtitles to a .mp4 or convert it to something else and then add the subtitles
11:56<fxiny>telemachus: ;)
11:56<keyz>rkos, ouch, no idea ;)
11:57<YbeddyJ>ok, therefore its like that it is the sections that i want
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11:58<YbeddyJ>found them
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11:58<YbeddyJ>contrib main nonfree great
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12:00<telemachus>victor: where are you with your issue? just got back
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12:12<victor>telemachus, i am in step 2.
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12:13<victor>telemachus, step 3:apt-get build-dep packagename;apt-get -b source packagename;
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12:14<telemachus>victor: cool, you are trying to build the sid version from source I take it? (I missed the steps while I was away)
12:14<victor>telemachus, I think so.
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12:15<ong>I'm having some problems with the bzr
12:15<ong>seems that something isn't in its correct path:
12:16<jusae>auto completition on my system sucks, it'll tell any user what files exist, how can restrict or stop that function?
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12:16<ong>I have bzrlib in /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/ and /usr/share/pycentral/bzr/site-packages/
12:16<jusae>is i remove the read rights of other, would that do it?
12:17<victor>telemachus, no, why should i build a sid version since I'm using etch?
12:17<weasel>jusae: your users should be able to read those files
12:17<weasel>jusae: otherwise they kinda cannot use the system.
12:17<victor>telemachus, maybe the whole thing is wrong.
12:17<weasel>jusae: are you the one who was whining about it for hours two days ago already?
12:17<weasel>if so, please tell me now before I waste any more time on you
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12:18<jusae>kinda of
12:18<telemachus>victor: no, no, it may not be - as I said earlier, it's not available for etch, but it is for sid
12:18<telemachus>victor: so one way to deal with that is to download the sid source and let apt build you a deb from that
12:18<jusae>i just thought that it was possible to stop users from viewin the files, givin as little information away as posslbe
12:18<telemachus>which is what it seemed you were doing based on the little I saw when I got back
12:18<weasel>jusae: there is no point.
12:18<Myon>jusae: your users will hate you
12:19<YbeddyJ>Eulex, WHATs wrong with this deb lenny/updates main contrib non-free
12:19<weasel>jusae: your users should be allowed to know that there is an ls, an mkdir etc
12:19<victor>telemachus, i c. bash is busy buiding it at the moment.
12:19<telemachus>victor: did you add a src line to your sources.list
12:19<telemachus>YbeddyJ: you need http: or ftp: before
12:19<victor>telemachus, yeah.
12:19<weasel>jusae: stop fiddling with that crap and find something useful to instead of playing system nazi :)
12:19<jusae>my users can take what i give them and nothin more
12:20<weasel>then give them a sane system or don't bother
12:20<jusae>u'll get what i give u and not what the install shield gives u
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12:20<jusae>just alittle worried
12:20<telemachus>YbeddyJ: deb lenny/updates main contrib non-free
12:20<telemachus>now that I look at it
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12:20<telemachus>you need security repos for security updates
12:21<victor>telemachus, hopefully I have done it the right way: deb-src sid main non-free contrib
12:21<jusae>in a battle between lenny and god who would win?
12:21<fxiny>contrib and non-free get security updates ?
12:21<jusae>the guy that wrote this and fix exim, had a serious sense of humour
12:23<fxiny>in between lenny and god ? galileo will prevail !
12:23<telemachus>fxiny: sure, why not?
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12:25<fxiny>telemachus: i think just main get secfix
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12:26<fxiny>at least on my default etch vservers deboostrapped install i get in my sources.list
12:27<telemachus>fxiny: not according to this - also, I've never gotten a complaint from apt-get or aptitude when updating
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12:27<telemachus>fxiny: normally a non-existent area of the security update will get a not found error, no?
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12:28<telemachus>fxiny: sorry normally a non-existent area of the *sources.list* will get a not found error, no?
12:28<fxiny>telemachus: my latest vserver install reads : deb etch/updates main . and it makes sense to ignore contrib and non-free
12:28<victor>telemachus, dpkg-deb: building package `bibletime' in `../bibletime_1.6.4.dfsg-1_i386.deb'
12:29<victor>how should install that?
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12:29<altoid>so, standard way to add users in debian is useradd or adduser?
12:29<telemachus>fxiny: I'm not sure why it makes sense to ignore them if they are available
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12:30<themisfit>Does anyone here have any experience with CPU connector pins?
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12:31<themisfit>Don't be so modest. :)
12:31<victor>telemachus, dpkg-genchanges: binary-only upload - not including any source code
12:31<victor>dpkg-buildpackage: binary only upload (no source included)
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12:31<Eulex>YbeddyJ, firstly, it should be secondly, updates are not provided by any mirrors; use for updates. thirdly, appears to not be working right now, try another mirror.
12:31<victor>i can smell something is wrong.
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12:33<telemachus>fxiny: according to - You can use apt to easily get the latest security updates. This requires a line such as deb etch/updates main contrib non-free
12:34<telemachus>fxiny: so, I don't see any reason to leave off contrib and non-free
12:34<_abc_>has anyone got an asus laptop's wifi going under debian ? something with id 168C:001C ?
12:34<fxiny>telemachus: yes ? so why i don't get 'em on my deboostrapped install ?
12:35<fxiny>i've taken them off from my normal source.list as well
12:35<victor>telemachus, dpkg-genchanges: binary-only upload - not including any source code
12:35<telemachus>fxiny: I can't say why you don't have them there by default, but I cannot see any reason to remove them
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12:36<telemachus>victor: I'm sorry? what are you asking or telling me? Keep in mind, I came in late to whatever you're doing, so I'm not sure where you are...
12:37<fxiny>telemachus: > Contrib and non-free aren't official parts of the Debian Distribution
12:38<fxiny>telemachus: ... and thus not supported by the security team
12:38<fxiny>which is pretty logic
12:38<victor>telemachus, well, after building a deb, it says
12:38<victor>dpkg-deb: building package `bibletime' in `../bibletime_1.6.4.dfsg-1_i386.deb'.
12:38<victor> dpkg-genchanges -b
12:38<telemachus>fxiny: gotcha, but there's also this in the faq - If it is possible to fix the problem, and the package maintainer or someone else provides correct updated packages, then the security team will generally process them and release an advisory.
12:38<victor>dpkg-genchanges: binary-only upload - not including any source code
12:38<victor>dpkg-buildpackage: binary only upload (no source included)
12:39<fxiny>they are avaiable in the name of freedom , i believe , and to avoid hypocrisy
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12:40<YbeddyJ>does this mean its being ignored Ign lenny/updates/non-free Sources/DiffIndex
12:41<telemachus>YbeddyJ: that often just means that there's no difference, so no need to reprocess the file
12:42<telemachus>fxiny: I understand that non-free and contrib are not officially part of Debian, but if you use those sources why not also put them in the security updates? From that last line in the faq, it seems that __sometimes__ updates do come through there
12:43<telemachus>fxiny: or did I misunderstand your point (or the faq)?
12:44<victor>ok, i think the thing is really complicated, there is too much to learn. Thank you guy anyway.
12:45<fxiny>telemachus: i knew that , i noticed the missing contrib and non-free lately on my vserver install so i removed for goods , mantainers fix as always like
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12:45<telemachus>victor: perhaps try gnomesword, just to see if it has some of what you want - at least for now?
12:46<telemachus>fxiny: ok, fair enough - I guess I just didn't know if you meant that there was no such thing as security updates for contrib and non-free, which it seems that there isn't, except that there sort-of is
12:47<telemachus>fxiny: now I'm confused
12:49<victor>telemachus, no, I need a tool that supports Chinese.
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12:50<YbeddyJ>can i do this with the commas or do i need to use / deb testing,stable,lenny main contrib non-free
12:50<weasel>what's that supposed to be?
12:50<victor>telemachus, it's not that urgent anyway. thank you for your help.
12:50<weasel>also, RTFM man sources.list.
12:50<telemachus>YbeddyJ: no commas and you do __NOT__ want testing lenny and stable at once
12:50<telemachus>besides that testing is lenny
12:51<telemachus>you don't want to mix stable with anything
12:51<weasel>in fact _you_ don't want anything but stable.
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12:51<fxiny>telemachus: there are no problems : seen how many quick fix for icewilly/firebug we get comparing to sarge firefox ? seen how multimedia push codecs or atrope-bloody-reader fix ? we know the sources and we trust 'em
12:51<victor>how come that the usb stick formatted on windows can't be used on Debian?
12:51<telemachus>weasel: you talkin' to me? (imitating best DeNiro voice...)
12:52<cahoot>why do you think so?
12:52<cahoot>victor: ^
12:52<telemachus>fxiny: ok, well, now you've lost me altogether
12:52<victor>cahoot, it's my usb stick.
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12:52<cahoot>victor: why do you think it can't be handled by linux?
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12:53<victor>cahoot, i tried, it can't be mounted.
12:53<telemachus>it's getting surreal in here, and I'm off to lunch - later all
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12:53<victor>cahoot, Debian says it can't recognize the file system.
12:53<MicZe>is there any way i can make firefox use another ip than my main one (i have 5 secondary ipnumbers connected to my server)
12:54<fxiny>telemachus: no i got you : i have no contrib or non-free on my security line :)
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12:55<cahoot>victor: do you know what fs it has?
12:55<victor>cahoot, fat
12:55<victor>mount: i could not determine the filesystem type, and none was specified
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12:55<cahoot>if you specify -t vfat?
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12:56<antonio00>hola a todos
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12:56<victor>cahoot, let me see.
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12:59<MicZe>I have been here atleast 20 time to try to ask various questions. but i have naver ever gotten an answer. is there a secret trick i have to use?
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12:59<cahoot>you know not every question has an answer in a given moment?
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13:00<weasel>MicZe: if I told you that "yes, there is a way", would you be happen? no, I guess not. and I don't have time for more.
13:01<victor>cahoot, check my command please: mount -t vfat /dev/sda
13:01<MicZe>Yes is batter than silence
13:01[~]weasel shrugs
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13:02<cahoot>victor: you need a mount point like /media/usbstick - then try mount /dev/sda1 /media/usbstick -t vfat
13:03<victor>cahoot, mount: mount point /media/usbstick does not exist
13:03<cahoot>no you create it
13:03<victor>cahoot, as a directory
13:04<victor>cahoot, mount: special device /dev/sda1 does not exist
13:05<cahoot>victor: unplug and replug the device - check dmesg for what device it is
13:05<fxiny>or try sda4
13:05<jusae>cahoot: what are the listed devices?
13:06<jusae>ls -la sda* (i think)
13:06<jusae>not sure if * is a wildcard
13:06<dli>victor, try "sg_map", and "fdiks -l"
13:07<jusae>dli: that only shows mounted devices
13:07<victor>usb 2-1: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
13:07<victor>usbcore: registered new driver hiddev
13:08<jusae>when the stick gets pluged in, linux should give u a registered device message
13:08<jusae>cahoot: ls -la /dev
13:08<victor>jusae: when it's plugged in nothing happens
13:09<jusae>check you log
13:09<jusae>should registered it
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13:09<jusae>whats the wildcard on ls? like "ls /dev/sd*" <<- whats the correct command line wildcard
13:10<Myon>wildcards are expanded by shells, not programs
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13:10<jusae>there's no wildcard option?
13:10<Eulex>sometimes by programs too
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13:11<Eulex>but usually by the shell
13:11<victor>jusae, how should check the syslog?
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13:12<jusae>forgotten where the system log is stored
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13:12<jusae>tail /(correct_path)/syslog
13:13<Para93>can anyone help me? i must crack an hash wrote in whit md5
13:13<Eulex>Para93, why?
13:13<jusae>thxa eulex
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13:14<cahoot>Para93: just google the hash
13:14<jusae>victor: tail /var/log/syslog
13:14<Para93>because i've promise to my teacher i will crack it
13:14<Myon>Para93: try google
13:14<Para93>on the online cracker there isn't this hash
13:14<Myon>there's no other way
13:14<Para93>i've just tried
13:15<Eulex>Para93, afaik you need to bruteforce md5.
13:15<jusae>tell ur teacher ur teacher to switch every computer on at school and then start generating
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13:15<jusae>cos thats what they did with md4
13:15<victor> /USR/SBIN/CRON[20108]: (root) CMD ( cd / && run-parts --report /etc/cron.hourly)
13:15<Myon>that was rc4
13:16<jusae>md4 was used with nt passwords, some guy used a sun mainframe to generate all the combinations, there's a list on website somewhere
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13:17<jusae>that an xor'in some stupid name
13:17<jusae>Para93, ur not paradox r u?
13:17<dpkg>Damnit Jim! It's YOU. Y-O-U. Not *U*. U is a letter. YOU is a word. See ne1, or wud. Dutch for 'you' (formal singular). See
13:18<jusae>the mad midnight bomber, what bombs at midnight
13:18<victor> pmount /dev/sda victor Error: device /dev/sda does not exist
13:18<Myon>cat /proc/partitions
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13:18<jusae>victor: is sda listed in /dev/?
13:18<victor> pmount /dev/sda1 victor Warning: device /dev/sda1 is already handled by /etc/fstab, supplied label is ignored
13:18<victor>let me see.
13:19<victor>jusae, no.
13:19<victor>it's not listed.
13:19<Myon>victor: you cannot "pmount" devices listed in your fstab
13:20<Myon>(+- some exceptions)
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13:20<victor>this usb stick worked just fine until I formatted on my colleague's windows platform.
13:21<victor>now the computer can't recognize it any more.
13:21<jusae>intelligent device is giving out incorrect characters according to linux, maybe?
13:21<jusae>character set unrecognisied, label data incomplete
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13:48<atlfalcons866>is it better to use 64bit than 32bit
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13:52<chealer>atlfalcons866: depends. ask #debian-amd64
13:56<Myon>it isn't unless you have HUGE databases
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14:08<rost>Hi all, I am running a current Debian testing with KDE. Whenever I try mounting a USB disk I get an error message on the desktop and see the following error with dmesg: 'EXT3-fs: Unrecognized mount option "uhelper=hal" or missing value'. Is this a known bug? Any workaround?
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14:12<_Jam1e_>what are you typing to mount
14:12<_Jam1e_>what options are you giving it
14:14<rost>sorry, real life just interrupted me... :-)
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14:15<rost>I am just clicking on the USB icon on the desktop
14:15<_Jam1e_>ah right i see
14:15<_Jam1e_>can you look at the icon and see the syntax of the mount command its executing
14:16<rost>ok, wait a second
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14:17<rost>there is only one option selected. it is called "Aktualisierung der Zugriffszeiten" in German. My poor translation is "Updating of access times".
14:17<witte>rost: do you have hal installed?
14:17<witte>sorry, rost: apt-get install hal
14:18<rost>wait, i take a look
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14:18<rost>dpkg -l hal: ii hal 0.5.10-2 Hardware Abstraction Layer
14:18<dpkg>ii hal: ii hal 0.5.10-2 Hardware Abstraction Layer 1.1-4 rost's private stamp collection
14:19<rost>seems to be installed
14:19<witte>rost: does mounting via the command line work?
14:19<rost>wait, i will try
14:19<mad4mangos>hello all
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14:20<rost>'pmount /dev/sdc1' worked perfectly...
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14:22<witte>rost: in that case it is some kde thingy, i do not know if there is a #debian-kde or so?
14:22<rost>hmm, i dont know either, I am new here :-)
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14:23<dpkg>i heard kde is a desktop environment based on the Qt toolkit. See for release news and other details, or not a window manager, or ask your questions about it in #debian-kde, or ask me about <kde_trouble>, or to get KDE, ask about <install kde>
14:24<witte>there is a debian-kde, you could try there
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14:24<witte>i do not use kde, so i have no clue where to start looking, and it is quite calm here at the moment
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14:25<rost>@witte: thank you anyway
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14:25<_Jam1e_>you can prolly edit the shortcut icon and modify the command parameters it runs
14:25<_Jam1e_>just edit it and put in the mount command you used on the command line
14:26<rost>@Jam1e_: There is no field for a command line when I edit the desktop icon, just some checkboxes under the 'mount' tab...
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14:37<mad4mangos>anyone care to offer a little help with a netbios problem i'm running into on a small network with a debian server (2.6.8) and samba (3.0.14a) where my samba server doesn't want to become the browse master even though it's defined that way in the smb.conf?
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14:37<mad4mangos>i've restarted both smbd and nmbd multiple times, but nmbd doesn't really appear to stop and start. at least that's what it seems like if i 'ps aux | grep nmbd' because the output show that daemon started on aug31st whereas the smbd daemon shows it restarted today
14:38<mad4mangos>if i kill the nmbd process by issuing the 'killall -15 nmbd' might i crash the server or is it relatively safe? a reference i'm checking says it could leave the memory in an unconsistent state - yikes!
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14:47<chealer>mad4mangos: how do you restart them?
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14:50<mad4mangos>chealer: i've tried a couple of different ways - '/etc/init.d/samba restart' and 'killall -HUP smbd nmbd'
14:50<rkos>whats a virtualdub replacement for linux?
14:54<mad4mangos>chealer: i also just tried 'killall -15 nmbd' but the process continues to run, at least according to 'ps aux | grep nmbd'
14:55<mad4mangos>chealer: i'm going to try to kill it by choosing the PID next
14:55<chealer>mad4mangos: what does # ps aux|grep nmbd|grep -v grep;invoke-rc.d samba restart;ps aux|grep nmbd|grep -v grep; output?
14:55<dpkg>Your /etc/apt/sources.list should have a line like "deb http://ftp.<cc> etch main" and "deb etch/updates main" where <cc> is your country code. Be sure to run "aptitude update" after editing sources.list in order to refresh your database. Also see <mirrors> <etch security> <testing security> and /usr/share/doc/apt/examples/sources.list
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15:00<mad4mangos>chealer: i ran the command you suggested and the screen output reads the same before and after samba restarts. that is, 'root 1235 0.0 0.1 5748 1124 ? Ss Aug31 1:07 /usr/sbin/nmbd -D'
15:01<chealer>mad4mangos: and what does invoke-rc.d samba restart; output?
15:02<mad4mangos>chealer: it says 'Stopping Samba daemons: nmbd smbd.' then, on the next line it says 'Starting Samba daemons: nmbd smbd.'
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15:03<chealer>mad4mangos: strange. if you were running a current release, I'd check.
15:06<mad4mangos>chealer: i'm thinking of restarting the server, but i want to use that as a very last resort. i even increased the logging levels to see what the processes are doing and while /var/log/samba/log.smbd updates log.nmbd does not
15:06<witte>mad4mangos: is that a sarge machine?
15:10<mad4mangos>chealer: i am getting a strange error message in log.smbd which says 'smbd/connection.c:yield_connection(76) yield connection: tdb_delete for name failed with error Record does not exist.'
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16:12<RedEyess>any one here?
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16:42<skoria>que onda
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16:45<steve_>has anyone worked with setting up openmcu to work with ekiga looking for some help
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16:49<steve_>trying to get video teleconferencing to work with more then point to point, point to multi point. Any ideas on applications to use?
16:49<steve_>point to multi point video and audio telephany
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16:54<steve_>no video teleconferencing users out there I guess?
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17:24<kurumin>tem alquem aki???
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17:42<francesco>Hello everybody!
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17:43<francesco>I would like to you something about the VI editor?
17:44<petemc>if you're using debian, just ask
17:44<francesco>I am using Ubuntu.
17:44<weasel>then you are wrong here :)
17:44<francesco>Doesn't Ubuntu derive from Debian?
17:44<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it is unlikely to live up to Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu ( instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian.
17:45<francesco>Thank you very much!
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17:46<koollman>err how was that relevant ?
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18:14<weasel>I think dwatson's client sucks
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18:16<weasel>dwatson: it appears your client is quite broken.
18:17<weasel>dwatson: which are you using?
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18:18<jagerman>Could just be a flakey connection
18:18<weasel>jagerman: unlikely.
18:19<weasel>it died on mode -qo twice.
18:19<duglas>Lilo has stopped responding to keypresses. The default kernel boots after the "timeout" setting. I have done apt-get update and upgrade, and reinstalled lilo. Any ideas?
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18:19<azeem>duglas: did you reinstall the lilo package, or re-run lilo to reinstall it in the MBR?
18:20<jagerman>weasel: Ah, indeed. I guess that's why freenode converts a +q to a +b with a % on the front?
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18:20<duglas>did both, today
18:20<weasel>jagerman: no, freenode does that because their +q implementation is an ugly, freakish hack.
18:20<weasel>jagerman: but how nice of you to attribute it to consideration on their part :)
18:21<jagerman>weasel: Well, the IRC protocol is the ugly, freakish, inflexible hack requiring ugly, freakish hacks to work around it :)
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18:21<polm>I've got a package I can't seem to remove. Apt-get installs and removes fail.
18:21<polm>Are there any other ways to remove a package?
18:21<witte>polm: and dpkg -P package?
18:22<witte>polm: and what is the error that you get?
18:22<polm>" Package is in a very bad inconsistent state - you should
18:22<polm> reinstall it before attempting a removal.
18:22<polm>witte: ^ error
18:22<witte>polm: so you should so try apt-get install --reinstall package
18:23<polm>dpkg: error while cleaning up:
18:23<polm> subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 71
18:23<polm>Errors were encountered while processing:
18:23<polm> /var/cache/apt/archives/tftpd-hpa_0.43-1ubuntu2_i386.deb
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18:23<weasel>!tell polm about ubuntu
18:23<polm>figured the package maintenance system was the same locally
18:24<witte>polm: yeah, the ubuntu packagers screwed up, we can not help you on this one
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18:40<broose>After trying a few distros I've decided I want to stay with Debian but one tihng strikes me as curious. Most of the other distros don't include MP3 support out of the box, yet Debian which I read, is the Freeest of them all includes it. How is Debian able to do that? Is it down to the interpretation of whether MP3 is and open format. It has me confused!
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18:41<broose>Sorry about typos there
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18:42<witte>broose: don't you have to add non-debian repositories in order to have mp3 support?
18:42<cahoot>difference between decoding and encoding?
18:42<broose>witte Well I haven't added them
18:42<broose>I checked the list and it only has main and security
18:43<broose>cahoot: ah that rings abell
18:43<Eulex>broose, well, this is about a software patent, not about 'freeness'. and it only includes decoding software.
18:43<azeem>witte: Debian has mp3 playback
18:43<broose>azeem: yes
18:44<cahoot>brooosas long as the bell is in ogg it's ok
18:44<broose>It is only playback
18:44<witte>azeem: ok, i was confused with the playing and encoding of mp3's
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18:46<broose>Eulex: what does that mean? I think I know but I want to be sure
18:46<broose>When you talk about patent
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18:47<azeem>broose: there are Free Software mp3 decoders and encoders available
18:47<azeem>but some distributions do not ship them because of patents on mp3
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18:48<azeem>there's is some dispute whether patents on mp3 decoding are actively enforced, mp3 encoding is out of the question
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18:48<broose>Ah so how come anyone can install Blade or Lame and that's ok
18:49<broose>I'm finding this whole mp3 thing confusing
18:49<azeem>maybe you should read up on patent law
18:49<broose>now i'm learning a bit about it
18:49<azeem>the usual problem is distributing, not using, at least as far as Free Software is concerned
18:49<broose>I see
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18:50<broose>Sorry I know I'm a bit off topic but the commetment to Freeness is one of the reasons I'll stick with Debian so I want to learn more
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18:50<broose>Your right I need to go and read
18:51<broose>wrong you're damn I hate that :)
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18:55<broose>I suppose this is old hat to you but when I realised that Debian is like the Internet itself - no one owns it - I was really impressed by that.
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18:56<broose>Anyway I leave you to the real support questions - Goodnight! and thanks
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19:07<SinbadEV>Hi, I keep hearing I can install debian "easily" from knoppix... now I'm in knoppix and I read I just had to su then type su then knoppix-install ... not working
19:08<azeem>SinbadEV: Debian doesn't support installations from knoppix
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19:08<azeem>SinbadEV: you'll have to ask #knoppix (maybe on for support
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19:18<aravind>hi, is xinit in sid not working? I am trying to setup debian and startx hangs with xinit exit with a "connection refused"
19:18<aravind>start X directly works fine.
19:19<aravind>I meant, starting X directly works fine.
19:20<azeem>what do you mean with "directly"
19:20<aravind>using X on the console starts the X server correctly
19:21<azeem>how do you use X?
19:21<aravind>I checked that I have a loopack interface defined and I can ping localhost..
19:21<azeem>are you running the "X" command?
19:21<aravind>azeem: I type X at the shell prompt, yeah..
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19:22<aravind>any ideas on what I could be missing?
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19:28<aravind>nevermind, working now.
19:28<aravind>I guess xinit wasn't setup correctly.
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19:29<keith>Debian4.0. I installed libdvdcss2 on my system. Some movie DVD run OK but others do not giving the encripted error message. Do others out there find the same problem and is there a way around this?
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19:42<ED>alguem do brasil na sala
19:42<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
19:45<ED>Brazil's someone here
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19:47<ED>I have a problem, I like to change the name of the machine, which appears after the user root
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19:49<Eulex>ED, edit /etc/hostname
19:50<ED>Ok you
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19:58<infinitycircuit>i have a fresh install of debian sid. I did apt-get install xorg and now when I type "X" it does nothing" and when I type "startx" it only says "xinit: Server error" what is wrong?
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20:00<witte>infinitycircuit: did you install x-window-system-core/x-window-system
20:01<infinitycircuit>i installed only xorg. i thought x-window-system-core was a transition package from sagre
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20:02<witte>infinitycircuit: mm, you are right
20:02<walber_>which software good for create live cd
20:02<witte>infinitycircuit: I was looking at the dpkg factoid, which seems a bit out of date
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20:03<witte>infinitycircuit: can you put /var/log/Xorg.0.log in a pastebin
20:03<dpkg>Please don't paste anything into the channel; use a paste site instead, like: or or or for pics. --- Also ask me: <pastebin pipe>
20:03<infinitycircuit>i can do that in a couple minutes i am trying a re-install after wiping all the extra config files
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20:06<gsimmons>!tell walber_ -about live
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20:08|-|Netsplit <-> quits: valdyn, Scurz, freex, the-me, ft, gerald_, Aleric, Gromitt, paistis, Kalessin1, (+4 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
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20:10<IRCMonkey>Hi, If I don't have an /dev/hda entry in /dev. What don I have to do to have one?
20:10<walber_>tank's dpkg
20:10<IRCMonkey>I am under initramfs for now
20:11<witte>IRCMonkey: that depends, maybe the module for your diskcontroller is not loaded
20:11<infinitycircuit>upon reinstallation of the xorg package, i get this message: "X: unable to open wrapper config file /etc/X11/Xwrapper.config X: user not authorized to run the X server, aborting"
20:11<witte>IRCMonkey: maybe you need /dev/sda instead of /dev/hda if you have scsi or sata or newer ata
20:12<witte>infinitycircuit: -rw------- 1 root root 614 2006-09-18 05:04 /etc/X11/Xwrapper.config
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20:13<infinitycircuit>Xwrapper.config does not exist
20:13<infinitycircuit>should i just use touch to create an empty file
20:13<IRCMonkey>witte: I have old ide disk (classical)
20:13<infinitycircuit>and then chmod it?
20:13<witte>infinitycircuit: apt-get install x11-common
20:13<infinitycircuit>witte, it's already installed
20:14<witte>and if you have that package, dpkg-reconfigure x11-common
20:14<witte>in my file, there is allowed_users=console
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20:14<witte>and nice_value=0
20:15<witte>if you have to make the file, you can add those
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20:15<IRCMonkey>witte: It used to work under 2.6.21, but does not under 2.6.22. And I would like to see what I could do uner initramfs to _have_ my disk
20:15<infinitycircuit>witte, i did that and got the same values automatically generated in the file, but now it's the same problem as before--i start X and then it just does nothing. i will try to paste the log
20:15<infinitycircuit>witte, in /var/log there is no xorg log file
20:16<witte>IRCMonkey: normally you can modprobe under initramfs i think, but i am no expert
20:16<witte>infinitycircuit: even with startx
20:16<witte>or after startx
20:16<infinitycircuit>witte, no, there is still no log file
20:17<infinitycircuit>witte, if i ls -l inside /usr/bin and look at "X" it is colored a deep red in the console
20:17<witte>infinitycircuit: i think you still need an extra package to be install, but i do not know which
20:18<witte>infinitycircuit: maybe xbase-clients?
20:18<witte>infinitycircuit: and /usr/bin/X is red on my system as well
20:18<IRCMonkey>witte: And, would you have an idea of a command such as 'mkdev'? (beside modprobe, thank you for this info/hint)
20:19<infinitycircuit>witte, thanks for the help but that suggestion didn't work either
20:19<witte>IRCMonkey: mknod or something
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20:21<witte>infinitycircuit: which is the exact error after doing startx
20:21<infinitycircuit>"xinit: Server error."
20:21<infinitycircuit>nothing else
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20:24<witte>infinitycircuit: and what if you just try xinit
20:27<infinitycircuit>witte, if i type xinit it hangs for a while and then says "Connection refused (errno 111): unable to connect to X server No such processes (errno 3): unexpected signal 2
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20:27<witte>infinitycircuit: ok, that is something new to google on :-)
20:28<infinitycircuit>yeah i'm trying that now
20:28<witte>infinitycircuit: and is there by accident something appearing in ~/.xsession-errors
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20:29<infinitycircuit>witte, no there isno
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20:47<infinitycircuit>well i've tried everything i can think of and i think the burn might just be bad
20:48<infinitycircuit>so i'm going to start over with a fresh cd
20:48<witte>infinitycircuit: well, that i do not really believe
20:48<witte>infinitycircuit: the install worked, and you update from the net
20:48<witte>so the packages you download are the ones on the net, and have nothing to do with the installer
20:49<infinitycircuit>yes that is certainly true but there doesn't really seem to be a fix when i look on google
20:49<infinitycircuit>and i've done this so many times on this same hardware
20:50<witte>infinitycircuit: well, you can try, and i also have no clue which part is missing
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21:23<minghua>Hello, I just did an upgrade in unstable, and now my timezone is set to UTC instead of CST (US/Central). I can't find anything in /etc/ that specifies my time zone. Can someone point me to the right direction to look at?
21:26<oxymor00n>dpkg-reconfigure tzdata
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21:29<minghua>oxymor00n: Thanks, that works.
21:29<oxymor00n>no problem :)
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21:31<Shu>im having big troubles with video/audio, whenever i try to start mplayer from GNOME, it crashes, so in order to get around it, i need to go to konsole and THEN play the video using the command line options (other console programs dont work with videos for some reason), does anyone know why?
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21:38<n838901>have a working bootable usb install media, but installer says it cant find cdrom
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21:39<n838901>*this machine has no cdrom.. debian docs state that the installer will auto detect .iso image on usb stick
21:39<n838901>not working though
21:39<n838901>is there a diff in lenny and etch installer on that behalf?
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21:40<n838901>am trying to install lenny from usb
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22:25<Solver>clearly no one anywhere has any problems with a Debian system
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22:31<Solver> /list
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23:12<faheem>Does anyone know the recommended method of adding values to the python path?
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---Logclosed Sun Nov 25 00:00:08 2007