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#debian IRC Logs for 2008-03-30

---Logopened Sun Mar 30 00:00:11 2008
00:00-!-EggsBaconSausagesAndPancakes is now known as GhostlyDeath__
00:01-!-sontek [] has joined #debian
00:02<sontek>Hey, I was wondering if you guys could help with a mutt problem? I'm using gmail+imap and in my folder_format I have %N, yet it doesn't show 'N' next to any of the folders with new messages in them
00:02<sontek>if I drill into the folder, the messages have 'N' next to them
00:02<sontek>and I'm using the sidebar patch, and it also shows that the folder has new messages in it
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00:22<mc__>how about kttsmgr
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00:25<NeoJew>I'm thinking of dual booting. should I install Debian over XP or XP over Debian?
00:26<NeoJew>I'm thinking Debian first since it would be easier to install GRUB then, but idk.
00:27<abrotman>XP first .. then debian
00:28<NeoJew>Why's that?
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00:29<mc__>has anybody ever used, text-to-voice in KDE
00:29<blarson>NeoJew: microsoft assumes that it's the only thing. debian has no problem dual-booting.
00:29<NeoJew>lol, yah. Thanks
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00:30<NeoJew>Debian is so humble.
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00:30<chealer>NeoJew: if you install grub first, NTLDR will overwrite it.
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00:30<mc__>I think I'm missing a voice package but not sure
00:30<abrotman>NeoJew: beause you want to use grub to boot both .. if you install debian first .. then you'll need some rescue thingie to get back into debian to get grub back in place
00:30<blarson>NeoJew: microsoft installer tends to wipe out everything else.
00:31<NeoJew>I don't need to use GRUB, I just assumed it would be the best choice.
00:31<abrotman>NeoJew: if you install XP second, it will wipe out whatever is in the MBR
00:32<NeoJew>I'm very new to Linux and the only way I learn something is if I get rid of all my other options so I'm forced to. Not having Windows was getting in the way of work today though, so I'm gonna have to dual boot.
00:33<mc__>NeoJew: If you have debian installed already, you can install XP, you'll just need a disk to get back up in linux and fix grub.
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00:35<NeoJew>I'll just install XP so I can partition the HDD at the same time.
00:35<NeoJew>When I install XP, should I go with NTFS or FAT32 though?
00:35<Killing_Frost>Hello. Anyone know what a VRFS is? My system keeps telling me it can't find it.
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00:35<NeoJew>I read somewhere that Linux isn't great with NTFS, or has that changed?
00:37<Killing_Frost>NeoJew: Last time I bothered paying attention, linux could read, but not write ntfs, but that was, like, 6 months ago.
00:38<GhostlyDeath|Laptop>Holy shit! What's with the new system monitor!?
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00:39<GhostlyDeath|Laptop>It's using all my CPU!
00:39<chealer>NeoJew: it didn't change, unless you mean GNU/Linux
00:40<Killing_Frost>NeoJew: Make a seperate vfat partition for file swapping?
00:40<kamaraju>Can someone please give me the correct permissions of /var/local?
00:40<GhostlyDeath|Laptop>NeoJew: NTFS-3g
00:40<GhostlyDeath|Laptop>NeoJew: If you go that route, mount it as sync unless you want to lose data!
00:42<NeoJew>So should I use FAT32 or would that suck for XP?
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00:43<Killing_Frost>drwxrwsr-x 2 root staff 4096 2006-10-28 07:06 local
00:46<kamaraju>Killing_Frost: It looks like I have drwxr-xr-x 2 root staff 4096 2008-01-17 10:31 /var/local . Could this be a problem? How can I set it to permissions like yours?
00:46<mc__>NeoJew: I use xp with fat 32, but I don't need the large file function of ntfs, none of my files are biger than 1gb.
00:46<mc__>I gues nobody here has used, text-to-speech in KDE.
00:47<kamaraju>mc__: I have used festival as text-to-speech converter before.
00:48<kamaraju>mc__: Never had any problem with it. Dont know KDE uses festival or something different.
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00:49<mc__>kamaraju: I seem to have that festive, but where it says choose voice, it grayed out, what debian package do I need to apt-get to get a voice.
00:49<kamaraju>mc__: See if there is any suggests packages in the festival package
00:49<mc__>kamaraju: The KDE program is kttsmgr, which uses festivel
00:50<mc__>kamaraju: where would I see that on deb web site?
00:51<kamaraju>mc__: What distribution are you using?
00:51<nicodarious>OK, so I found that the AMD64 dosn't fit my needs.... no real software for it yet and my games won't run on it because I can't get the sources for 2.6.24.. for some reason. time to go back to the 32 bit server type, heh
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00:52<kamaraju>mc__: See
00:52<kamaraju>mc__: Also, check if there are any bugs filed for your problem.
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00:53<mc__>kamaraju: There just might be a bug, I'm running sidux, but over on there channel, I get nobody using text-to-speech.
00:54<kamaraju>mc__: Time to shift to Debian :-) from sidux! Now you know the strength of Debian over sidux - the user base...
00:55<kamaraju>mc__: If you can tell me the exact steps to reproduce your problem, I can see if it is reproducible in Debian Etch.
00:56<mc__>kamaraju: OH, I've been using Debian for years, but norally do a net install, I didn't even know RSS feeds could be read until I tried sidux
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00:58<mc__>kamaraju: OK, when I try and configure kttsmgr, and click add. it opens another window, which shows festival as the shtiazier, but the voice is grayed out so I can't finish so OK stays grayed out.
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00:58<mc__>kamaraju: That link you gave me lead me to another page which list to voice packages I'll apt-get them.
00:58<mc__>kamaraju: Thanks.
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01:00<Killing_Frost>try 'chown root:staff /var/local' and 'chmod 2775 /var/local'
01:00<kamaraju>mc__: When I click Add, nothing is grey here! So it is probably a problem in sidux
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01:02<kamaraju>Killing_Frost: Thanks. The 2 in front of 775 is the trick (I think).
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01:02<Killing_Frost>apt-get install rss2email
01:03<mc__>kamaraju: No I find I'm missing the voice package, it's comeing down now. Only sad thing they don't have any sexy female voice just male english voices.
01:03<kamaraju>mc__: Hehe!
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01:03*Killing_Frost waits for his ISP to flake out at midnight, because they can't type his credit card number right.
01:04<Killing_Frost>emacspeak is better than festival.
01:04<mc__>Killing_Frost: No I wouldn't run any OS that's not based on debian, and I'll always have debian stable installed some where. It's just plan faithfull.
01:05<mc__>Killing_Frost: It's just with 20000 packages it seems i always find new packages I didn't know were there.
01:05*phillipsjk grumbles about newfangled installer
01:06<Killing_Frost>Try using the CLI blind.
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01:07<Killing_Frost>SpeakUP is still the best screen reader available for linux.
01:07<mc__>kamaraju: I'm sorry the last two were for you my tab switch some how and put you at the bottom of the stack.
01:07<phillipsjk>killing_frost: the CLI generally gives useful error messages (assuming you have a brailler)
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01:08<kamaraju>mc__: Ok!
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01:08<mc__>Killing_Frost: I'll have to check out speakup, it's just hat this new verison of Akergator is intergated with ktts
01:08<Killing_Frost>Yeah, if they ever get around to teaching it to me...braille, that is.
01:09<mc__>phillipsjk: No I don't need text-to-speech, just lazy.
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01:10<mc__>also just playing around with this new install. learning new stuff,
01:10<Killing_Frost>Festival's not enough. You also need speech-dispatcher.
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01:12<Killing_Frost>Lenny's gnome-orca package will read some of the GUI, anyway...if they ever get it worth iinstalling.
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01:14<Killing_Frost>Dunno how long they'll last without a real standard to model/interface with, besides the GTK libraries.
01:14<mc__>Ok that was it some how sidux didn't include a voice package in thier install.
01:15*phillipsjk officially hates the D-I for Etch. (I'm complaining 13 months too late, I know.)
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01:15<mc__>My text-to-speech is working now thanks a lot.
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01:16<peyman>hi everyone. which package in Etch contains the "dot" program for creating call graphs?
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01:17<Killing_Frost>Whazza call graph.
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01:18<peyman>Killing_Frost: it's a diagram to show the flow of a program
01:18<Killing_Frost>Ah...function call. Hmmm...
01:19<phillipsjk>the relaese-notes tell me theat 23% of packages were dropped from sarge-> etch
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01:19<Killing_Frost>Wish they'd kept lame, even if it didn't rip mp3's without a recompile.
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01:24<peyman>it's in "graphivz". thanks for though.
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01:27<lazy>bcmwl5 : driver installed
01:27<lazy> device (14E4:4311) present (alternate driver: ssb)
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01:27*Killing_Frost moseys along...
01:27<Killing_Frost>Keep well...
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01:27<lazy>i rmmod ssb and remake ndiswrapper -i
01:28<lazy>it still show alternate driver: ssb
01:28<lazy>how can i fix it?
01:28<FLAVINHO>da ondi vc é?
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01:30<mobin>hello everyone.
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01:30<mobin>how can we change the keyboard setup with in an application in debian.
01:31<mobin>Is there any os api for that?
01:31<FLAVINHO>d ondi vcs sao?
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01:32<phillipsjk>mobin: is just one application doing the wrong thing?
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01:33<mobin>phillipsjk: Actually I want to add automatic keyboad change when i select a particular theme in my application.
01:34<mobin>phillipsjk: we have different themes for different languages.
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01:36<phillipsjk>Ok, I can't help then. (I though maybe it was like quake with a hard-coded keymap)
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01:41<mobin>phillipsjk: is there any other irc where i can ask the same?
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01:43<phillipsjk>I was going to suggest asking kernel developers, but Debian aims to be kernel-independent...
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01:46<nicodarious>anyone know the best way to do a custom kernel build without borking the system?
01:47<mobin>phillipsjk: thanks
01:48<nicodarious>i want to tone down the kernel and take out all the extra unneeded crap, but it seems that I can't do it because I'm missing something. something about bzImage... I create it and place it inside the boot directory, but Debian doesn't like it too well.
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01:51<mobin>phillipsjk: I think we just need to change the keyboard locale.
01:51<mobin>Is there any system call for that?
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01:52<phillipsjk>I don't know, I haven't had debian installed since woody. (I have been using a live CD)
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01:57<phillipsjk>mobin: have you tried using a mis-labled keyuboard? some users may not like it.
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02:01<kamaraju>How can I test if a remote machine's X is working or not?
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02:01<kamaraju>If I am doing xinit on the remote machine, Can I see the display on my machine?
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02:06<phillipsjk>kamaraju: X uses a client-server architecture, so the answer is probably yes & no. (one of those things I want to figure out how to do..eventually.)
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02:13<pooch>Hey all, I just wanted to let you guys no that i fixed the java problem
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02:15<pooch>is there any way we can connect to the servers mIRC uses???
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02:22<phillipsjk>pooch: don't see why not. mIRC is probably just configured with different defaults.
02:23<pooch>Im trying to get to the server i used with mIRc but it was the default server so I dont know what it is called
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02:29<phillipsjk>The documentation for mIRC *should* tell you how to change the defaults. Most IRC clients also have it flash by when you are connecting to said server.
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02:39<vook>nicodarious: the best way to achieve your goal is to base your kernel configuration off of /boot/config-xxxxx (the kernel config you are running).
02:40<vook>nicodarious: after doing 'make clean && make mrproper && make menuconfig' exit then do 'cp /boot/config-2.6.xxxx /usr/src/linux/.config' then again 'make menuconfig'.
02:41<vook>remove from the configuration whatever is blatently unneeded - then (as a beginner) slowly widdle it down into a tight and efficient kernel.
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02:42<vook>eh, that question is an hour old I spose. maybe still helpful.
02:44<dserban>I've got a screen resolution problem when a program tries to go full screen. The author of the program tells me that gtk is told to go full screen, but it seems to think that my resolution is higher than it is. Therefore cutting off the right and bottom sides of the window. Where does gtk determine what my screen resolution is?
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02:45<vook>*whittle :)
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02:46<goob>ndiswrapper saved the day here!
02:46<goob>just had to check out my connection - but another question:
02:47<goob>does ndiswrapper wok for graphics drivers?
02:47<vook>dammit *blatantly
02:48<vook>goob: nope
02:48<goob>also, is there an open source alternative for ndis?
02:49<vook>ndiswrapper is an open-source project that enables us to use closed-source network drivers.
02:49<goob>hmm - no hits there apparently
02:50<goob>vook: ndiswrapper is based on a microsoft program Network Device Interface Specification
02:50<goob>uses microsoft code
02:51<goob>okay another topic - can't figure out how to adjust my display brightness in gutsy
02:51<vook>yeah - I don't know anything about any gutsy in debian ;)
02:51<goob>would like to find a way to set function jeys to control screen dimming
02:52<goob>dang oke
02:52<goob>*okee (okay)
02:52<goob>what do you use then?
02:52*vook is always amazed at the lack of tact used by debian-based distro users when asking questions in #debian.
02:53<goob>i am in wrong room!
02:53*goob is always making a fol of goobself
02:53<goob>* a fool
02:53<vook>goob: no problem dude. next time, phrase your question without
02:53<goob>thx for the help
02:53<vook>admitting to the distro
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02:54<goob>yeah i don't know why it automatically logged me in here - i usually use ubuntu room
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03:12<blorb>hi all :)
03:15<alaya>does it seem to anyone like this channel has changed?
03:17<alaya>so i compiled an app from source and installed it. it put a lib in /usr/local/lib/ when i run the app it says it can't find the lib. do i need to run ldconfig? with special args?
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03:18<alaya>hmm /etc/ lists /usr/local/lib
03:19<alaya>aha that was it. ran ldconfig with no args but it seemed to work.
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03:22<vook>I think we all change from day to day, and sometimes it seems like we connect and we are at our best; then some other times we connect and aren't at our best. Speaking for myself, sometimes I connect as a professional, and sometimes I connect as a schlep on my couch, and with the change of atmosphere comes a change of personality...
03:25<alaya>i was thinking that the traffic has slowed down a lot
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03:31<blorb>anyone here used the zenoss ?
03:33<alaya>what is it?
03:34<blorb>it's a monitoring system
03:35<alaya>oh right. i've heard of it.
03:35<blorb>based on snmp mostly... clientless and very powerfull
03:36<alaya>i use nagios and cacti
03:37<blorb>i love cacti
03:37<alaya>played around with munin but didn't like it too much
03:37<blorb>one of the best
03:37<blorb>you should try zenoss
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03:37<alaya>nagios is really great, if you have the patience to set it up
03:37<alaya>i will check it out
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03:38<blorb>i think it better then nagios... but maybe it's just diffrent
03:38<blorb>are you using the nagios client?
03:38<blorb>or snmp?
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03:39<alaya>hmm, i was using some of the standard checks that it comes with, plus some custom plugins i wrote
03:40<alaya>for snmp events i had a separate snmp traphost listening that would send alerts
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03:41<alaya>quite a lot of it was just check_ping on various interfaces
03:42<alaya>then some custom checks of our app that would give various responses
03:43<alaya>a lot of it was just sorting out things like max_check_attempts, notification_interval, and check_ping parameters to fine tine the responsiveness
03:45<alaya>once you set up the templates for hosts and services its pretty easy to just add a bunch of servers
03:46<blorb>sounds good
03:46<blorb>well.. zenoss i very same in that way
03:46<blorb>but the monitoring consept changed :)
03:47<alaya>one trick was finding the traptoemail to use for snmptraphost and getting it to actually send mails when traps were received
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03:50<pde>How cute
03:50<pde>a webpage that repeatedly crashes iceape and iceweasel on my system
03:50<pde>anyone else see the same thing?
03:51<alaya>pde: i see "We deliver a much richer experience when JavaScript is enabled." in big red letters at the top of the page ;-)
03:51<pde>alaya: hehehe
03:51<alaya>hey, you are in the city?
03:52<alaya>i am not far from you, south 30 min.
03:53<pde>it feels like 20% of the world's geeks are within an hour of hear (allowing, generously, that one can get to SJ in an hour)
03:54<pde>Anyway, if anyone can reproduce this crash it's probably a security bug in the mozilla aps :(
03:54<pde>well, it's probably a security bug anyway, but it might just be a security bug on my system
03:54<Hideo>ew it crashed my browser too
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03:55<pde>ok, that's enough for a bug report
03:55<Hideo>and I even have noscript on
03:55<Hideo>java and javascript disabled
03:56<pde>I didn't have the latest iceape, I'll tr with th latest
03:56<Hideo>I have the latest iceweasel from sid
03:56<alaya>its looking good in iceweasel
03:56<Hideo>alaya: odd that's what I have
03:56<alaya>< in sid
03:57<alaya>pde: maybe i met you on a job interview :-/
03:58<vook>yeah - no crash here either in
03:58<Hideo>that is strange, maybe it's the addons that pde and I have
03:58<pde>alaya: what kind of job interview are you thinking?
03:59<Hideo>vook, alaya do you have any addons at all?
04:00<vook>I actually don't have much on this system - flash and java at the most.
04:00<pde>I have a bunch; trying with them off
04:00<pde>nope, it crashes even with addons disabled
04:02<Hideo>yeah I just turned them all off and it still crashed
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04:45<alaya>interesting string of text in irc channel
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04:47<alaya>what would really be cool is a quizbot
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05:17<jaakko>How can I put the screen/monitor in sleep/power off? Is there some Xorg command for that?
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05:20<blorb>a bot that ask questions?
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05:20<m4steR>can you suggest me a 7.1 sound card linux compatible?
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05:21<blorb>i have no idea?
05:21<blorb>is alsa support 7.1?
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05:25<jaakko>blorb: I'm not a bot :P
05:26<blorb>ohhh.... cuz you used alot of upper and lower cases :D
05:26<jaakko>blorb: lol
05:28<blorb>well... you want to shutdown only the screen?
05:28<jaakko>blorb: yes, save power.
05:29<Hideo>wow, so writing in correct English is considered bot-like behavior?
05:29<blorb>hmm... i know how to change the acpi level... but it's not what you want :\
05:30<blorb>Hideo: i don't know if anyone else think so... just a bug in my head :)
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05:30<Hideo>blorb: how sad :P
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05:31<blorb>maybe too much ircing in bad servers/channeles
05:31<jaakko>blorb: yes? I'm reading "man xorg"...
05:31<blorb>u wana try chenging the acpi level?
05:32<jaakko>blorb: don't know yet, how would I do that?
05:32<blorb>it will turn off some stuff... monitor/vga card
05:32<Hideo>jaakko: what you're looking for is probably the "BlankTime" and "OffTime" options
05:33<blorb>but you need acpi on the pc
05:33<jaakko>Hideo: Are those xorg.conf otpitons?
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05:38<Guest14>i dont know how to use this T_T
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05:41<jaakko>Hideo: thanks, those keywords really helped Googling.
05:41<jaakko>blorb: I don't have that file in /etc
05:41<blorb>vbetool dpms off #Only if you have vbetool installed, not sure if it comes by default
05:41<blorb>it's from one of the forums
05:42<blorb>and if you do: echo mem > /sys/power/state
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05:42<blorb>you get into power saving mode... turn off screen, disk, floppy, maybe network
05:42<Hideo>jaakko: those should be in the xorg.conf man page somewhere, about a third of the way down.
05:42<keith>Debian 4.0: libdvdcss. I have been watching a movie from a DVD. I copied it onto my HD but when I try to run it from the HD the livdvdcss thing applies. How do I get around that?
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05:44<jaakko>blorb: It is not by default on my puter, but I will install it to test it.
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05:46<blorb>jaakko: the: echo mem > /sys/power/state will get you into SuperPowerSave :)
05:46<blorb>but it's more then you wanted
05:46<blorb>but listen guys... i'm not sure it's in the xorg.conf
05:47<jaakko>Hideo: yes they are and can be changed with xset at run-time, nice.
05:47<blorb>the console screen shut off sometime too... and the rest still running
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06:15<jaakko>blorb: I found a command "xset dpms force off"
06:16<jaakko>blorb: but I don't know if it is actually power off or just black screen.. I have to get a monitor where is gloving bulbs inside, heh.
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06:22<yugiohjcj>hi, my borwser do a timeout when I try to go to, server is down?
06:22<crazyb0y>yugiohjcj: i have the same problem...
06:22<crazyb0y>maybe it's down for a while
06:22<yugiohjcj>crazyb0y, ok :-(
06:22<crazyb0y>i have a problem with postgresql and gforge and my Locales
06:23<crazyb0y>i don;t want to use LATIN1
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06:23<yugiohjcj>Is there an other way to go to a web Debian packages search?
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06:24<C-xC-s>hi how do i know which directory debian installer installs the new system in
06:24<crazyb0y> this is the error
06:24<crazyb0y>C-xC-s: what do you mean ?
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06:24<C-xC-s>i am installing debian on a macbook
06:24<C-xC-s>the tutorial sais:
06:25<C-xC-s>chroot /target aptitude install refit
06:25<crazyb0y>C-xC-s: so the directory is /target
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06:25<crazyb0y>you have to define what directory you want to use
06:25<C-xC-s>where /target is the directory the installer installs the directory the new root is
06:25<C-xC-s>oh ;)
06:25<C-xC-s>you are right... i just thought too compicated
06:26<C-xC-s>thanks for the pointer ;)
06:26<crazyb0y>welcome =)
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06:27<crazyb0y>yugiohjcj: let me see
06:28<crazyb0y>Arruor: =))
06:28<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, is the place to look what packages are in debian, see also and apt-cache search
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06:28<jaakko>blorb: oh, vbetool messed my monitor, funny.
06:28<crazyb0y>yugiohjcj: try =)
06:29<valdyn>why would anyone use
06:30<crazyb0y>valdyn: because doesn;t work
06:30<valdyn>crazyb0y: thats hardly a valid reason
06:30<crazyb0y>valdyn: =)
06:30<jaakko>blorb: I have black stripes both sides of screen. I have a working area of ~600 pix width.
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06:30<valdyn>hey the official software server is currently down so ill just use unofficial unsupported random unknown sources
06:31<crazyb0y>valdyn: why unofficial?
06:31<yugiohjcj>crazyb0y, my browser is going to tell me a timeout error with this web site too :-\
06:31<valdyn>crazyb0y: that is what is.
06:31<crazyb0y>yugiohjcj: it's work for me
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06:31<yugiohjcj>crazyb0y, oh no good
06:31<crazyb0y>valdyn: ask dpkg to see =)
06:31<dpkg> A collection of various unofficial package sources.
06:31<yugiohjcj>crazyb0y, finally I have the answer
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06:32<crazyb0y>it's good i think =)
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07:00<Hideo>Is it just me or is down?
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07:01<@Ganneff>Hideo: worksforme
07:01<EmleyMoor>My backups didn't run this morning and you can probably guess why...
07:02<Hideo>Ganneff: thanks, it's loading now, I don't know why it's awfully slow for me
07:02<@Ganneff>Hideo: it hates you? :)
07:03<Hideo>EmleyMoor: why?
07:03<EmleyMoor>Hideo: Because they were set to start during the hour we didn't have
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07:05<Hideo>is there a time change where you live or something, EmleyMoor
07:05-!-dpkg [] has joined #debian
07:06<EmleyMoor>Hideo: Yes
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07:25<k-man__>how do i set my system to use UTC for the hardware clock?
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07:27<peech>k-man__: have a look at tzselect
07:27<cahoot>you have UTC=yes in /etc/defualt/rcS?
07:27<k-man__>ah, it was set to no
07:27<peech>could somebody help me to fix with problem with vmware server 1.0.5:
07:27<k-man__>changed it to yes
07:28<k-man__>cahoot, so how do i set my hwclock to utc from the current system date which is set to local time/
07:29<cahoot>ste your date correctly then hwclock --systohc
07:30<k-man__>cahoot, ok, did that, but hwclock is still local time after --systohc
07:32<cahoot>then I don't know - my stsem is set up like that and hclock and date show same time
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07:32<k-man__>oh, do they?
07:32<cahoot>disregard my lousy spelling
07:32<k-man__>ok, maybe its working
07:32<Gekz>I have a problem upgrading openoffice on sid
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07:33<Gekz>you see, it wont allow me to install until everything else is 2.4.0
07:33<dondelelcaro>Gekz: have you checked the bts yet?
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07:33<Gekz>what i have done is gotten it to only one broken package in aptitude
07:33<Gekz>only problem, it wont let me proceed with a broken package
07:33<k-man__>cahoot, ah i see in the man page for hwclock it does say that the time is always shown in local time
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07:33<k-man__>thanks even
07:34<Gekz>dondelelcaro: bts you say
07:34<dondelelcaro>Gekz: so fix the broken packages. You really should be capable of dealing with this sort of thing if you're running unstbale, though, because this isn't an uncommon problem at all for unstable.
07:34<dpkg>Bug Tracking System for Debian packages, or to go directly to the bug page for a particular package/bug, try or . aptitude install reportbug, and check out <querybts> too. Users of sid and testing are required to check the BTS. Useful for sid and testing: aptitude install apt-listbugs apt-listchanges .
07:34<cahoot> hwclock --show --utc
07:34<Gekz>dondelelcaro: that's what I'm doing. It can't be fixed until other things that break it are installed >_>
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07:35<Gekz>I might as well just purge openoffice and install it
07:35<peech>could somebody help me to fix a problem with vmware server 1.0.5:
07:35<peech>or maybe send me to a better place to ask?
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07:54<jaakko>blorb: the vbetool is just what I wanted, thank you. It works without x (opposite to xset).
07:58<C-xC-s>what is the best current practise with mounting shares on a laptop? depending on the network i want to automount different drives.
07:59<C-xC-s>should i just write a scipt in bash_profile?
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08:00<zero_>how do i find out what version of Debian im using?
08:00<jaakko>C-xC-s: what about just a script and a icon on desktop (or menu) if you have gui.
08:01<dpkg>Kernel: uname -r. Debian: cat /etc/debian_version. and: dpkg -l libc6 | tail -n 1. Package: dpkg -l _pkgname_. Miscellaneous: try --version on the command. check /etc/apt/sources.list; run apt-cache policy <packagename>, or lsb_release -a, or cat /proc/version
08:01<C-xC-s>jaakko: would be possible. but i thought about automatically mounting the drives at boottime.
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08:02<jaakko>C-xC-s: Ok, then it is a script run at boot time. you can put starting row in /etc/rc.local too.
08:03<zero_>anyone here know anything about automatix?
08:04<jaakko>zero_: isn't that ubuntu thing?
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08:05<zero_>debian version as well
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08:12<jaakko>zero_: is that better than synaptic/aptitude..?
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08:13<zero_>jaakko: its just easier to install your drivers, i havent used in on debian yet, its only for 4.0r0
08:13<zero_>i have 4.0r3
08:13<zero_>so i cant
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08:14<martel>hello y m sorry
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08:22<vgramanathan>msg nickserv identify testpass
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08:23<amphi>vgramanathan: fail
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08:25<vgramanathan>amphi, i couldn't remember the command
08:25<vgramanathan>amphi, registered now, though
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08:52<Warm_Reboot>hi to all debian users :)
08:52<Warm_Reboot>guys I'm new to IRC as well as debian
08:53<peech>what a drama. took me quite some time to get it that i need the 116 patch from another source and then poke gcc, cpp and g++ back to version 4.1 to get vmware server 1.0.5 running
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08:57<peech>is there a way to found out what toolchain versions were used to build certain packages?
08:57<peech>to find out even
09:00<Warm_Reboot>don't know man :( sorry
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09:05<abrotman>peech: it likely should be the default versions in etch
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09:06<peech>abrotman: i am on lenny and the default version seems to be 4.2 while the kernel was built with 4.1. thats why i am asking
09:06<abrotman>peech: it's in transition
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09:07<panagos>hello, i have a problem: the kde system notification sounds don't work! sound works otherwise normally though (e.g. i can hear music with amarok). the reason seems to be the fact that i upgraded my kernel to 2.6.24-1-amd64
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09:11<Warm_Reboot>updating the kernel is not an issue with sound not working
09:11<Warm_Reboot>but then again test the sound system though
09:12<Warm_Reboot>with other sound players under kde
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09:16<cahoot>aren't the system sounds dependent on artsd?
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09:26<lupine>cahoot: you can turn arts off. I always do
09:26<cahoot>I don't use kde
09:26<lupine>arts = lose
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09:26<cahoot>tried to comment on panagos' problem
09:29<panagos>lupine: so do you know how to have kde notifications without arts?
09:30<lupine>nope, I hate audio notifications with an intense passion
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09:32<panagos>my problem remains still unsolved though... :(
09:33<Warm_Reboot>agrees with lupine :D
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09:36<panagos>it's nice e.g. when you want to be notified that someone talked to you in an irc channel... :|
09:36<mikes>panagos: using lenny?
09:36<panagos>mikes: yes
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09:37<mikes>panagos: just for being sure, have you checked kcontrol settings?
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09:38<panagos>mikes: yes, i have notif. enabled
09:40<mikes>panagos: i tested having sound system disabled and i also get NO notifications
09:40<mikes>panagos: in debian sid
09:40<panagos>mikes: basically i'm using a mixture of lenny and sid
09:41<mikes>panagos: i think it's a normal result of disabling arts
09:41<panagos>mikes: it would be had i actually disabled it!
09:42<mikes>oops sorry, i thought you had
09:42<panagos>i have checked the checkbox with the bold letters in kcontrol that enables the sound system :|
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09:45<mikes>panagos: check player settings in notifications tab
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09:47<panagos>mikes: it's all enabled, it worked with the same configuration on 2.6.22
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09:48<Warm_Reboot>panagos: is your sound working in other applications ?
09:49<panagos>Warm_Reboot: yes, e.g. amarok plays songs fine, /usr/bin/play too
09:50<Warm_Reboot>panagos: do one thing check whether the sound files are actually present or not.. I know it sounds stupid but please do check
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09:51<panagos>Warm_Reboot: yes, the files are there :)
09:51<panagos>i can play them with play
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09:52<Warm_Reboot>are the norticiation triggers properly enabled ? I mean sound for each event ?
09:52<panagos>but if i use the little play button in the notif. tab in kcontrol, i can't hear them :|
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09:53<Warm_Reboot>panagos: do you have your old kernel as backup ?
09:53<panagos>Warm_Reboot: yes, i do
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09:53<Warm_Reboot>you can revert to your old kernel and see whether this application is working or not, if it works then the problem resides in the kernel configuration not application
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09:57<panagos>Warm_Reboot: i didn't change any configurations (in kde etc) when upgrading my kernel, and the notifications worked fine with the old one :|
09:57<panagos>and my kernel config is also the stock one
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10:05<Tha>Hi.all ! How can i reduce brandwidth allocation of apt-mirror???
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10:19<lucas_amorim>hello, Why cant i find xmms in the debian-multimidia repository? I only found xmms2, where is XMMS?
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10:25<lucas_amorim>cahoot: but is still very usefull... I dont understand why it is not in the repos
10:25<lucas_amorim>where can i find it?
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10:30<cahoot>seems to actually be in sid (and etch) but not testing presently
10:30<cahoot>!why is xmms not in testing
10:30<dpkg>xmms is not in testing for the reasons listed in
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10:32<cahoot>an opportonity to try aqualung
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10:36<m4steR>hi all
10:36<m4steR>i have a problem with lenny
10:36<m4steR>with installation of driver ati
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10:36<m4steR>using same procedure of etch
10:37<m4steR>driver doesn't work
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10:50<Elirips>hello. when i print from within kmail, the printout has huge font-sizes. has anyone an idea where i could fix this? its debian etch, printin on a hp laserjet1200 with cups and hplip.
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11:09<Tuplad>Hey guys, my Linux is pretty shit at this moment... I have been asking help in this channel pretty much, but today my issue is: I really think it's not my hardware but a damaged Linux. Is that possible ? I think the video drivers are wiped off and my swap is bugging too. Would it be wise to just remove my lenny installation and install an etch one ?
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11:12<sky>what's your hardware?
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11:14<Tuplad>I can't tell, I only have console access to my machine
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11:14<sky>you can see hardware from BIOS
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11:15<Tuplad>oh yeah
11:15<Tuplad>one min
11:16<Tuplad>sky: :( I can't find it, what do you want to know ?
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11:19<sky>you said you hardware ,so i ask ,whar's your problem?
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11:21<sky>you can't install video drivers?
11:22<Tuplad>sky: um no
11:22<sky>what's um mean?
11:22<Tuplad>sky: actually, I started encountering kernel panics and stuff, for now, my swap wont start at all, also, if I try to boot and I get to the login window, my monitor just goes black
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11:23<Tuplad>I asked for help in this channel, they told me to memtest, I did memtest for 10 hours, nothing... so I suspect my system, my videocard or my harddrive
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11:24<sky>em.. i think it'not mem problem ,when did you find it?
11:24<Tuplad>find what ?
11:25<sky>i think you reinstall linux will fix it
11:26<cusco>Tuplad: tried to boot in single user ode?
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11:27<Tuplad>I'm on debian since august or so, all went to shit because I went from etch to sid to lenny, then I reinstalled, like in december ? and things worked well, then it started to get worse, first those were kernel panics, had to restart a couple of times a day, I started with lenny btw. then it kept going and going, more and more kernel panics, also, lots of segment faul and software that wouldnt start, this week is the worst one... I removed 1 ram
11:27<Tuplad>stick and let my computer run for 4 days, FLAWLESS, so I restarted, I thought like: he needs it. and then at that restart, the boot message gave me an error with swap, a segment fault. I can type it here if you want. so now, boot message gives me swap errors, and when I get to gnome login screen my monitor just goes black
11:27<sky>do you see your xorg.conf?
11:27<Tuplad>cusco: yes, but no idea what to do there
11:27<Tuplad>sky: how do I find out ?
11:27<cusco>Tuplad: perhaps a dmesg
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11:27<Tuplad>I'm a beginner :]
11:27<cusco>copy it somewhere
11:28<sky>do you rebuild the kernel?
11:28<cusco>also when having kernel panics annd such
11:28<cusco>try to get the error msg so we know what you're talking about
11:28<Tuplad>sky: I only use apt :]
11:29<cusco>once you booted into single user mode you can try to mount the swap
11:29<sky>if the X can't start i usually see the /etc/X11/xorg.conf
11:29<Tuplad>cusco: right, but they're always different. sometimes software just starts giving errors, shutdown 1 by 1, and when I restart the computer then the errors come, always different though.
11:29<Tuplad>cusco: I'll try uploading dmesg through lynx
11:29<Tuplad>sky: I'll check that one out in a moment
11:30<cusco>Tuplad: but those are the messages that say what is wrong with your system... if you think of them as of no importance then system's health has no importance to you
11:30<sky>Section "Device"
11:30<sky> Identifier "NVIDIA Corporation NV11 [GeForce2 MX/MX 400]"
11:30<sky> Driver "nvidia"
11:30<sky> BusID "PCI:1:0:0"
11:30<sky> VideoRam 64000
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11:33<Tuplad>cusco: you see, I never paid attention to them because I had no idea wtf they meant
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11:33<Tuplad>cusco: I switched to linux since august, I knew something was off, but no idea what to do about them
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11:33<Tuplad>cusco: also, it wasn't just 1 line, but a whole screen,
11:34<cusco>well you can enable bootlogd and access it later via single user mode
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11:34<cusco>edit the file /etc/default/bootlogd
11:34<cusco>to enable it
11:34<cusco>then check /var/log/boot
11:35<cusco>Tuplad: but the weay I see it, the simpliest way for you would be a whole re-install
11:35<Tuplad>yeah I bet
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11:37<Tuplad>I cant find a way on how to upload that text (dmesg > tuplad.txt)
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11:39<Tuplad>sky: xorg.conf looks good
11:39<Tuplad>but before I'mma wipe that system xD how do I mount my external hdd ? I want to backup some stuff, and I dont know how to do it from console
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11:39<sky>em. i think i cant help sorry~
11:39<cusco>use mount
11:40<cusco>mount /dev/something /mnt
11:40<cusco>something like /dev/sdb1
11:40<cusco>fdisk -l will list the partitions
11:40<cusco>choose one to mount
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11:41<Tuplad>right, sec
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11:43<Tuplad>ok time to backup :D
11:43<Tuplad>cusco: should I get lenny again or stick with etch this time?
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11:59<EmleyMoor>Is there any way to type Czech characters into the info in Amarok?
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12:07<shellclear>how I make to come back with the alterations made for sinaptic?
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12:09<chealer>shellclear: what? cancelling changes?
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12:11<shellclear>chealer, after an update my openoffice it was removed, exists a way to come back with the done alterations?
12:12<chealer>shellclear: are there other changes you want to undo than the removal of OOo?
12:12<shellclear>chealer, the packages still are in cache in hard disk.
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12:14<chealer>shellclear: then simply installing OOo should undo the relevant changes.
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12:14<craigevil>shellclear: are you running Sid?
12:18<shoeunited>Ok whenever I change themes it doesn't work (I know that's very generalized but bear with me. lol) When I apply them it only affects root and not the user. I really need help because a black theme is all well and good except when I need to change it so I can read some things.
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12:27<user01>how do i remove a printer? i went into system admin printers, and it isnt allowing me to remove a network printer
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12:33<tingle>hello, i would like to know the version of wine on debian etch "apt-cahe search wine" doesnt give enough information. Any suggestion? i prefer to use Apt
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12:35<panagos>tingle: there is apt-show-versions, and aptitude search
12:36<tingle>panagos: thanks for the awnser
12:36<tingle>panagos: apt-get show wine seems to work aswell
12:37<panagos>tingle: yes, aptitude show can also do the trick
12:37<valdyn>tingle: http://localhost:631/
12:37<valdyn>user01: ^^^^
12:37<valdyn>tingle: apt-cache policy wine
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12:40<user01>valdyn, i setup by running hp-setup as su
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12:41<user01>valdyn, thanks
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12:42<kamaraju>Just a quick question. When installing Debian using the KDE image, it asks me whether I would like to resize an ntfs partition. Does this resize the partition destructively or non destructively?
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12:43<amphi>non-destrutcively, one would hope, but I would always back up before monkeying with partitions
12:43<kamaraju>amphi: Thanks.
12:44<user01>hp 2605dn rocks with linux
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12:49<user01>shuttle kpc with debian would be nice
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12:56*EmleyMoor broke his backup strategy this morning but realised why
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12:57<dpkg>one warez list being sent to sowngold
12:58<dpkg>one warez list being sent to peech
12:58<sowngold>what is debian
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12:59<peech>debian is the only item on my warez list
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13:04<tingle>is it possible to customize the gnome-keybindings and for example make a keybinding to vlc whitout needing to install a second keybinder?
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13:09<fran>hola hay alguien por aqui
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13:11<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
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13:24<EmleyMoor>What if anything has replaced autofs in lenny?
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13:26<EmleyMoor>I think it's gone due to a bug actually... better keep it for the moment
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13:32<Tuplad>how do I change the locale of the console from Russian to English ? I changed /etc/default/locale and did update/locale but not effect
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13:35<MrNaz>how do you change the locale of a user account?
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13:37<drmay>where can i see the change history of lenny ?
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13:38<martok>Hey, would anyone know of a way to cause a Debian initrd (mkinitramfs style) to drop to a shell?
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13:40<drmay>martok: the unability to mount the root filesystem
13:40<themill>drmay: what specifically do you want to know? There are thousands of packages that have each undergone many many changes during lenny's development.
13:40<horus>lenny rules
13:40<shze>martok: adding init=/bin/bash at the grub menu gives you a shell
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13:41<drmay>themill: several days ago, debian-live used to boot in my pc, with the actual lenny it doesn't giving some extrange errors about hda
13:41-!-mode/#debian [+q *!*] by FloodServ
13:41-!-arne was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
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13:41-!-arne is now known as Guest34
13:41<themill>!ops arne is now Guest34 and is back
13:41<dpkg>Hydroxide, bob2, caphuso, dondelelcaro, doogie, eeyore-, ElectricElf, ):, helix, ljlane, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, Netsnipe, TML, walters, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Alife, Myon, Ganneff, Maulkin, weasel, zobel: themill complains about: arne is now Guest34 and is back
13:42<martok>shze: But doesn't the init=x get executed after the initrd pivots to the root FS. I need to reconfigure my raid on root whilst its in readonly.
13:42<@Ganneff>themill: and? see what floodserv did.
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13:42<acu>I am setiing up a web email and ftp server with a lot of videos etc - I have one 320GB (Fastest) and two 160 GB - how should I partition them ?
13:43<themill>Ganneff: ?? never seen that before... is that a +q on him?
13:43<shze>martok: yes, rootfs is mounted before
13:43<peterS>themill: +q is like +b but does not prevent a person from joining
13:43<peterS>only prevents him from speaking
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13:43<themill>Ganneff: my client showed it as "FloodServ gives channel owner privileges to..." which doesn't really sound quite right...
13:43<@Ganneff>fix your client
13:43<@Ganneff>its pretty broken
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13:43<shze>martok: use a live-cd
13:44<Tuplad>how do I change the locale of the console from Russian to English ? I changed /etc/default/locale and did update/locale but not effect
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13:44<peterS>Tuplad: you have to log in again for that file to have any effect
13:44<themill>Ganneff, peterS: sorry to stir you with !ops... hadn't realised that floodserv would be so proactive. Is that a new thing?
13:45<peterS>relatively new
13:45<@Ganneff>pretty old now.
13:45<Tuplad>peterS: thanks
13:45<mentor>Not /every/body
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13:46<pbt>Hi, How can i reduce bandwidth allocation for apt-mirror?
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13:46<drmay>come on, where is a goos place to view lenny change history? i messin arround and cannot find it by myself
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13:47<Tuplad>peterS: wonderful, any idea how to go from qwerty to azerty?
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13:47<@Ganneff>loadkeys / setxkbmap
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13:48<peterS>hmmm, I thought 'dpkg-reconfigure kbd' might do it, but it seems now
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13:49<@Ganneff>or -data, one of those
13:50<peterS>right. there it is, 'dpkg-reconfigure console-data'.
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13:54<pbt>Hi, How can i reduce bandwidth allocation for apt-mirror?
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13:55<themill>Ganneff: one bug filed (although apparently quite a few networks do use mode q to mean channel owner...)
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13:57<Tuplad>loadkeys did it
13:57<Tuplad>thx :)
13:57<tingle>is it possible to customize the gnome-keybindings and for example make a keybinding to vlc whitout needing to install a second keybinder?
13:58<chealer>themill: um, which one?
13:58<chealer>themill: oh, against Debian's BTS?
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13:59<chealer>themill: nevermind, just got the mail
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14:01<themill>chealer: :) (apparently euric uses q for owner. don't know what other ones)
14:01<themill>err ... euirc
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14:04<bill_>are the new amd chipset 770 780 790FX are compatible with the 2.6.18 etch kernel?
14:08<nicodarious>ok, so is anyone here capable of answering some questions about a debian install?
14:09<nicodarious>I have a problem with the business card install. I have been trying to get it to work, but half way through installation, it always seems to fail. I have tried both regular installgui and expertgui installation and still it always fails at the installation of files.
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14:10<chealer>bill_: does Linux 2.6.18 support these?
14:12<chealer>bill_: don't send non-private messages in private without asking for permission first.
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14:14<brainbug>i installed fetchmail and the others, all works fine but got little problem, when i do ifup eth0 (to start my eth) i get this message: make: /etc/mail/Makefile: No such file or directory // make: *** No rule to make target `/etc/mail/Makefile'. Stop
14:16<Supaplex>brainbug: how did you install it?
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14:17<brainbug>Supaplex, well at first i messed it little up :p , but i installed fetchmail / procmail (deteled that one again) / sendmail that would be it i thnk...
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14:18<Supaplex>nicodarious: try #debian-boot for installer issues
14:18<Supaplex>brainbug: did you install all of these with apt-get? what release of debian is it?
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14:18<brainbug>yes i did
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14:19<brainbug>Supaplex, i think it s in some config , cause it search after the directory...
14:20<Supaplex>brainbug: dpkg -l fetchmail\* procmail\* sendmail\* to
14:20<nicodarious>Supaplex, thanks. I'll go there.
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14:24<Supaplex>brainbug: what was installed most recently before you started seeing that makefile message?
14:25<brainbug>supaplex, at first i installed fetchmail , nothing special said no mailserver... , then installed procmail , deleted that one, and at same time installed sendmail after logging in again saw it ...
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14:28<brainbug>Supaplex, maybe some info u can use, i got this message ofc. when i use root login and ifup the network... and after this error messsages i get this " Reloading Mail Transport Agent configuration: sendmail. "
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14:29<Supaplex>brainbug: the only Makefile I see shipped in those packages is usr/share/sendmail/examples/milter/Makefile
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14:30<Supaplex>brainbug: try grep -i makefile /etc/*/if-up.d/sendmail
14:31<brainbug>supaplex, nothign
14:31<keith>can someone help me in building a module? I am trying to get my Creative webcam VF0330 up and running
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14:32<keith>i'm really new to all this
14:32<Supaplex>brainbug: try grep -ri makefile /etc/*/if-up*/
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14:32<brainbug>supaplex, nope
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14:33<Supaplex>usr/share/sendmail/dynamic: make -f /etc/mail/Makefile;
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14:35<brainbug>Supaplex, thats the error i get
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14:36<brainbug>Supaplex, make: /etc/mail/Makefile: No such file or directory /// make: *** No rule to make target `/etc/mail/Makefile'. Stop. so same as ifup -down
14:36<Supaplex># Bring in some script functions to handle dynamic configuration
14:36<Supaplex>. /usr/share/sendmail/dynamic;
14:36<Supaplex>from etc/network/if-up.d/sendmail
14:38<Supaplex>brainbug: dpkg-reconfigure sendmail-base and review any oddities. failing that, I think it's a canidate for reportbug, as dpkg -l shows these in the fully installed state.
14:38<Supaplex>you can use postfix as a drop in replacement for sendmail
14:38<brainbug>Supaplex from: can't read /var/mail/etc/network/if-up.d/sendmail
14:39<Supaplex>use /etc/network/if-up.d/sendmail
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14:39<Supaplex>and by "from" I mean "This is where it came from" - that's what's calling it
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14:39<roam>any linux on ppc person here?
14:39<Supaplex>roam: just ask
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14:40<roam>how do i specify an initrd.img in yaboot?
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14:44<Supaplex>looks like yaboot.conf man page has info about it
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14:45<brainbug>Supaplex, nothing works , after what u told, i tried touch makefile , now i got this error make: *** No rule to make target `'. Stop // make: *** No targets. Stop.
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14:46<Supaplex>brainbug: echo -e '\n\ttrue' >> Makefile
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14:48<brainbug>Supaplex, good making progress :p make: rue: Command not found /// make: *** [] Error 127
14:49<brainbug>Supaplex, i delted the rue now i got this make: `' is up to date.
14:49<Supaplex>yes typos kill. you must have dropped a t there. change rue to true.
14:50<Supaplex>good enough
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14:51<brainbug>supaplex, now it says ' true ' 2 times
14:51<Supaplex>that's okay
14:52<brainbug>Supaplex, ok thx for the help :) , the true stays? (ifup ifdwon) ? but i can live with it ^
14:52<Supaplex>if you want those quieter, use @true btw, this is really a workaroud - I'm not sure why your installed package works this way. (aka bug bait)
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14:52<dpkg>per aiuto in lingua italiana, prova il canale #debian-it, oppure #linux-it.
14:53<brainbug>supaplex, thx all gone :p hero of the day
14:53<fiox>c'a nun ce stanno italiani ?
14:53<dpkg>methinks supaplex is a classic game from the m$dos days featuring 111 levels of insanity. Now it's freeware, and has atleast 11 level seperate sets of (111) levels. a super hero one man support team, or see
14:53<Supaplex>brainbug: yup, that's me. :)
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14:53<Supaplex>fiox: sorry, english only here. -- dpkg> per aiuto in lingua italiana, prova il canale #debian-it, oppure #linux-it.
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14:54<Spirit>hey, does anyone know why baobab is not in lenny/testing?
14:54<brainbug>Supaplex , ur some sort of advanced user? cause what u just did dont know how i would start this to fix it :p
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14:55<Supaplex>I've used linux for some 8-9 years now
14:55<brainbug>Supaplex, aah ok :p
14:56<w8>helo metal alilitia
14:56<brainbug>Supaplex, that would make me a newb , 3 months and 9 distro's but i found the one i like ^^
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14:57<Supaplex>I tried a few distros to start out with. not a bad thing. I stuck with debian because it upgrades rather seamlessly, and a good strong community, and no overbearing for-profit corporate influence.
14:58<Supaplex>and I keep using it because it's usually pretty predictable. (the mainstay of 'stable')
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14:58<brainbug>jup and easy tools (apt-get , dpkg) and stable, solid and user friendly ; the one i liked too was archlinux ..
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15:00<brainbug>Supaplex, but have a great day farther ty
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15:15<Fade_To_Black>where can I find a grub2 manual?
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15:23<phillipsjk>can somebody please check how much space in needed in /boot ? (Etch i386)
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15:27<engywuck>i have 50MB /boot in etch
15:28<engywuck>that's a little low IFF you want to have more than 2 kernels
15:28<engywuck>atm 21MB used
15:28<phillipsjk>ouch I had only 8M
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15:30<phillipsjk>I was just going say I was going with 32M (This machine is using 8M for 3 kernels (PPC woody))
15:31<EmleyMoor>Is there a way to cancel a selection in Amarok?
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15:32<Tha>i have 1 Gb as /boot (raid1) . most part of it is free, but i feel smooth.
15:33<phillipsjk>Tha: I guess that is still within my 8GB BIOS limitation :)
15:33<engywuck>well, i have 4 or 5 kernels installed....
15:35<phillipsjk>Which partitions should be made bootable: /boot or / ?
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15:38<Tha>well #of kernels * approx 16 mb seems good
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15:39<peech>helix: can i speak with you about your channel?
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15:40<peech>helix: explain me either here or in query why this vorlon jerk is behaving like a rampant moron
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15:41*phillipsjk tries the expert installer
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15:47<peech>helix: can i query you?
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15:47<engywuck>phillipsjk you need to make /boot bootable
15:48<engywuck>at least if you use grubs, dunno lilo
15:48<@helix>peech: um, yeah I guess so
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15:51<phillipsjk>engywuch: thanks. That was my guess, but I wasn't sure.
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15:51<phillipsjk>yesterday the grub isntall failed saying only that a "fatal error" occured :P
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16:00<panagos>could someone please point me to what i should read in order to compile/link code under linux, that will run on windows? (aka cross development)
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16:00<lucas_amorim>hello, I have just plugged in an spare IDE hard disk to my lenny box. How should I mount it? I have plugged it to the middle of the same IDE cable that is plugged to my DVD drive which was automatically mounted /dev/scd0
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16:02<engywuck>lucas_amorim see (as root) fdisk -l
16:02<Arruor>lucas_amorim: /dev/scd0 is an emulated SCSI device, you must type something like this - mount /dev/hdXX /path/to/mount
16:03<lucas_amorim>yes, I have tryed hda1 and hdb1
16:03<engywuck>there you should see (as /dev/hdX or /dev/sdX) your hdd (with all others, of course)
16:03<Arruor>as engywuck said - type fdisk -l
16:03<lucas_amorim>oh.. sure, thanks
16:03<engywuck>or look at the output of dmesg,, but fdisk -l is preferred
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16:09<JamesXP>Hello, can someone help me with my ntfs partition?
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16:10<kp>u know your in a debian chan right?
16:10<JamesXP>chmod is giving me errors
16:11<JamesXP>chmod: changing permissions of `/mnt/storage/XXXX': Operation not supported
16:11<petemc>ntfs doesnt support unix permissions
16:11<kp>cant chmod ntfs permissions...^
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16:11<JamesXP>How do I get my non-root user to be able to read the files?
16:12<kp>mount with umask=0777
16:12<petemc>set that as an option at mount time
16:12<JamesXP>mount /dev/hda6 /mnt/storage umask=022 ?
16:13<petemc>-o umask=022
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16:14<JamesXP>all good.
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16:18<JamesXP>when i'm minimising, it leaves trails from the box
16:18<JamesXP>is there anyway of stopping them?
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16:20<petemc>JamesXP: what kind of graphics card and which driver are you using?
16:20<JamesXP>7300GS and nvidia-glz
16:21<valdyn>JamesXP: nvidia supports its drivers. We cant do that.
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16:21<JamesXP>I thought nvidia-glx was the free driver?
16:21<valdyn>JamesXP: no
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16:24<Debeeaan>does anyone know how i can get my wireless working with Debian?
16:24<JamesXP>what wireless card do you have/
16:25<enouf>petemc: why would umask matter for ro?
16:25<Debeeaan>its some type of internal Atheros card
16:25<Debeeaan>not sure exactly
16:25<JamesXP>try typing lspci in terminal
16:25<JamesXP>it should show your actual card
16:25<JamesXP>and chipset
16:25<chealer>Debeeaan: just ask your question.
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16:26<Debeeaan>00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation 82865G/PE/P DRAM Controller/Host-Hub Inte rface (rev 02)
16:26<Debeeaan>00:01.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82865G/PE/P PCI to AGP Controller (rev 02)
16:26<Debeeaan>00:1d.0 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801EB/ER (ICH5/ICH5R) USB UHCI Contr oller #1 (rev 02)
16:26<Debeeaan>00:1d.1 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801EB/ER (ICH5/ICH5R) USB UHCI Contr oller #2 (rev 02)
16:26<Debeeaan>00:1d.2 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801EB/ER (ICH5/ICH5R) USB UHCI Contr oller #3 (rev 02)
16:26-!-Debeeaan was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
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16:27<Debeeaan>01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV34M [GeForce FX Go5200] (rev a1)
16:27<Debeeaan>02:00.0 FireWire (IEEE 1394): Texas Instruments TSB43AB21 IEEE-1394a-2000 Contro ller (PHY/Link)
16:27<Debeeaan>02:01.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL-8139/8139C/8139 C+ (rev 10)
16:27<Debeeaan>02:02.0 Ethernet controller: Atheros Communications, Inc. AR5212 802.11abg NIC ( rev 01)
16:27<Debeeaan>02:04.0 CardBus bridge: Toshiba America Info Systems ToPIC100 PCI to Cardbus Bri dge with ZV Support (rev 32)
16:27<Debeeaan>02:04.1 CardBus bridge: Toshiba America Info Systems ToPIC100 PCI to Cardbus Bri dge with ZV Support (rev 32)
16:27<Debeeaan>02:06.0 System peripheral: Toshiba America Info Systems SD TypA Controller (rev 03)
16:27<Debeeaan>ok, didnt see taht comin
16:27<Debeeaan>heres the single line i meant to paste
16:27<Debeeaan>02:02.0 Ethernet controller: Atheros Communications, Inc. AR5212 802.11abg NIC ( rev 01)
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16:28<petemc>enouf: i dont understand your question
16:29<Debeeaan>so, it shows up in lspci, why cant i get it recognized?
16:29<petemc>Debeeaan: dont paste in the channel
16:29<Debeeaan>petemc ok sorry
16:31<chealer>Debeeaan: by what?
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16:31<Debeeaan>chealer: i want to use my wireless connection, but i cant get it recognized in network manager
16:31<enouf>petemc: if the person above with ntfs wants to-> "<JamesXP> How do I get my non-root user to be able to read the files?" why is the umask option needed? --> "mount /dev/hda6 /mnt/storage -o umask=022" is it because no other options were given? or because mount is suid root?
16:32<enouf>or, is it to match $USER's default umask? i misunderstand
16:32<jaakko>Debeeaan: you have to install a driver for it
16:33<Debeeaan>jaakko: any idea where i can find a debian driver for that?
16:33<jaakko>Debeeaan: I'm not familiar with that card, but Google might help. one solution seems to be "madwifi"
16:33<enouf>petemc: i mean , i thought umask was only applicable to "new file" creation - am i incorrect?
16:34<Debeeaan>jaakko thanks
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16:35<Tuplad>console rules. I wiped my gnome off and working through console :} just gotta get used to this text based surfing
16:35<_overflow_>Debeeaan, aptitude install module-assistant ; m-a autoinstall madwifi ; modprobe ath-pci
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16:38<Johanna>Apt is retaining me a package. I already tried with apt-get dist-upgrade and apt-get -f dist-upgrade
16:38<Johanna>What should I do?
16:39<phillipsjk>Tuplad: Web 2.0 kinda made that difficult for me :P
16:39-!-lavaramano [] has joined #debian
16:39<Tuplad>phillipsjk: yeah, true, I cant even access gmail properly :\
16:40<Tuplad>phillipsjk: but hey, I mean, I'm just testing wether it's my hardware that is making so much trouble or was it a corrupted system :]
16:40<jaakko>phillipsjk: why, is your telnet broken? xD
16:40<Tuplad>phillipsjk: and so far so good, got music, instant messengers, irssi etc.
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16:40<phillipsjk>jaakko, no my favorite browser (lynx) uses single-pass rendiring, precluding client-side scripting.
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16:42<chealer>!tell Johanna about bat
16:42<dave_>memory 2 GB swap 2 GB There is a problem with this configuration
16:43<Arruor>I think that 2 GB swap partition is too large
16:43<Tuplad>can I disable swapon/swapoff to run on system startup ? because my swap is screwed and I dont want it to get started
16:43<dave_>but my memory ram is 2 gb
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16:43<jaakko>Tuplad: I think you can just remove it from fstab
16:44-!-peyman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:44<Tuplad>jaakko: did that, so that's all ?
16:44<phillipsjk>dave: it really depends what you are doing with the system.
16:45<Tuplad>phillipsjk: you ever got around accessing gmail through lynx ? :D
16:45<jaakko>Tuplad: for me it worked that way. if there is no difference in your system...
16:45<phillipsjk>Tup, no, but I did bug Yahoo mail to let me use the old (buggy) version.
16:46<chealer>dave_: what do you mean?
16:46<Tuplad>phillipsjk: hehe, yeah I see now, gmail uses JS and lynx doesnt have that
16:46<Tuplad>phillipsjk: so pop3 would be the only option ?
16:47-!-jimx [~jimx@] has joined #debian
16:47<jaakko>Tuplad: why you lynx gmail, why not run mutt?
16:47<phillipsjk>you can check what w3m supports (based on emacs)
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16:48<dave_>chealer: actually i have 2gb swap, and only wanna know is very long ?
16:48<Tuplad>jaakko: mutt ? :o
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16:48<chealer>dave_: what's your native language?
16:48<Tuplad>phillipsjk: w3m, isn't that a gui thing, like gnome ?
16:48-!-jurkomurko [] has joined #debian
16:48<jaakko>Tuplad: it is suberb email program supporting imap
16:49<Tuplad>jaakko: hmm, never used imap
16:49<chealer>dave_: did you try asking on #debian-es ?
16:49<Tuplad>jaakko: have no idea what it's for
16:49-!-dkremer [] has joined #debian
16:49<Tuplad>phillipsjk: oh no, it's a text based browser :O
16:50<jaakko>Tuplad: IMAP, you don't download emails locally, you read them remote (as with browser). But you can download them if you want to.
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16:50<dave_>I like here, you give better advice
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16:50<Tuplad>jaakko: oooh, that's NEAT
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16:51<Tuplad>jaakko: and gmail supports that?
16:51<jaakko>Tuplad: yes, it hasn't had imap for long but now it has
16:51<Tuplad>phillipsjk: ah, w3m is wicked, but I didnt even figure out how lynx works, so I'm not gonna figure out w3m just yet :P
16:51-!-th [] has joined #debian
16:51<Tuplad>jaakko: neat, I'mma go try, but how do I get the IMAP info ?
16:52<phillipsjk>Tup. the keybindings are completely different :P
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16:52<Tuplad>hey, what's wrong with the "en_GB-utf8" locale ? everything works just fine but I get errors that the directory is invalid ?!
16:52<Tuplad>phillipsjk: yeah I've noticed :O
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16:55<Tuplad>hm, gotta figure out hwo to click links with irssi
16:56<jaakko>Tuplad: use copy paste
16:56<Tuplad>I'm in console
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16:56<Tuplad>like, no graphics whatsoever
16:56<phillipsjk>Yup. do you have the console mouse driver installed (gpm) ? (or was that finally dropped?)
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16:57<Tuplad>:O mouse in console ? NEAT!
16:57<jaakko>Tuplad: I really like mutt. type 4 letters (mutt) to read your mail. No browsing. :)
16:57<Tuplad>jaakko: I get my system mail
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16:58<Tuplad>rooooooooofl! it actually works
16:58<Tuplad>oh my, excuse me, I'll do it somewhere else
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17:00*phillipsjk is jelous how fast Tup got it working
17:00<jaakko>phillipsjk: I got it too, thanks for the tip
17:00<Tuplad>jaakko: the manual is talking about ~/.muttrc but I don't have it :}
17:00<Tuplad>phillipsjk: :D
17:01-!-jimx [~jimx@] has left #debian []
17:01<jaakko>Tuplad: install mutt, "aptitude install mutt" and then create that file.
17:01-!-wasare [] has joined #debian
17:01<Tuplad>jaakko: it's installed, lets create the file then
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17:02<Tuplad>phillipsjk: suddenly lynx is going a whole page down when I press the down arrow now, anyway to fix it ? :D
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17:04<Tuplad>phillipsjk: like, I just wanna scroll line by line
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17:06<phillipsjk>Tup: 'k' shows the current or default keymap -> ^N ^P
17:06<Tuplad>phillipsjk: neat! thx
17:07-!-wasare [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
17:07<phillipsjk> ^ being shorthand for [control]
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17:08<Tuplad>phillipsjk: yeah ;)
17:08<Tuplad>never thought I'd figure out how vim, lynx or any other console based program works
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17:08<Tuplad>jaakko: roflol, mutt is working through imap :D
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17:09<jaakko>Tuplad: it is powerful, you can search mail based on header dates etc and then save them locally.
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17:11<jaakko>Tuplad: But you have to configure some other program to actually send the mail.
17:11<Tuplad>jaakko: ah CRAP!
17:11<Tuplad>jaakko: I already typed one and pressed send, what to do, noble knight jaakko ?
17:11<jaakko>Tuplad: it is not that difficult, they work together. you can reply and so on.
17:12-!-mode/#debian [+l 349] by debhelper
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17:12<Tuplad>jaakko: oh :) what to configure then ?
17:13<Tuplad>jaakko: so, I answered a mail from my machine and my girlfriend checked my gmail, it's sent
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17:13<Tuplad>jaakko: guess I don't have to configure anything :D
17:13<Tuplad>jaakko: this is beautiful!
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17:14<phillipsjk>... whcik is how we used to get by with less thatn 256MB RAM ;)
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17:16<jaakko>Tuplad: checked _your gmail_? So she checked it is "sent", not that it is _received_?
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17:16<Tuplad>jaakko: she went to the online version of gmail and the message was actually sent back
17:17<drmay_>in a bash shell: I mount a device, use it, sync and umount it *BUT* always is busy. Then i do ctrl-C, and type umount mydevice and if success. What is happening?
17:17<jaakko>Tuplad: ok, nice. My mutt didn't work that way.. perhaps I didn't know right conf.
17:18<jaakko>drmay_: are you "inside" the device when unmounting? do you "cd /mount/point"?
17:18<Tuplad>jaakko: =) altough, in the gmail version there is a new label added + the mail looks like it's sent twice :P
17:18<drmay_>tankyou jaako!, that is
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17:20<engywuck>anyone here having ever used esmtp with pine successfully?
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17:21<frost>Hello. Anyone know what "UDF-fs: No VRS found" means? Just installed Etch off the Shane "SpeakUP" CD, and had a problem and couldn't run tasksel.
17:21<engywuck>I always get SMTP greeting failure: 421SMTP connection went away!
17:21<jaakko>engywuck: I use msmtp, it is easy (with mutt)
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17:22<engywuck>since I understand 1% of mutt documentation and 3% on oine I used pine for now :)
17:22<engywuck>ok, alpine to be exact
17:22<jaakko>engywuck: yes, butt you could try msmtp for sending mail.
17:23<engywuck>hmmm, i tried esmtp because it has user-configs
17:23<engywuck>well, let's try
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17:23<Tuplad>anyone uses mp3blaster ? or can recommend me a good console based mp3 player :} mp3blaster doesnt read id3 tags ;<
17:23<frost>Try mplayer.
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17:25<phillipsjk>frost: Tupland is experimenting with the console.
17:25<phillipsjk>never mind, (I see context was included in the question)
17:25<frost>I use mplayer from the console for streaming feeds.
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17:26<engywuck>mplayer is overblown for playing mp3 files
17:26-!-swo [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:26<engywuck>especially if you want to play more than one...
17:26<Tuplad>I need to play lots of music
17:26<Tuplad>what I dont like about mp3blaster is that it doesnt sort my tracks by the id3 tag #
17:27<Tuplad>like, if there's an album, it just sorts the tracks alphabetical
17:27<frost>Or I use sox in a for loop to play an entire dir or playlist 'for i in *;do play $i; done'
17:28<Tuplad>too complicated for me, really.
17:28<Tuplad>experimenting with linux for a couple of months now
17:28<Tuplad>but I'm not yet in the "coder" zone
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17:29<abrotman>Tuplad: mpg321?
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17:29<Tuplad>abrotman: lets see
17:30<abrotman>there's also mpg123
17:30*frost still wonders what wasn't installed by not running tasksel in the install disk to get an "UDF-fs: No VRS found" error.
17:31<Tuplad>mm, will have to play around with that one
17:31<Tuplad>abrotman: what's the difference?
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17:32<abrotman>Tuplad: i can't recall .. i thought one was DFSG-free and the other wasn't .. but that may have changed by now
17:32<Tuplad>what's DFSG ? :}
17:32<dpkg>dfsg is probably the Debian Free Software Guidelines, which can be found at, or
17:32<abrotman>Tuplad: it appears one uses floating point and the other doesn't
17:32<Tuplad>oh -_-"
17:33<Tuplad>and what effect would that give ?
17:33<frost>Better/worse sound quality.
17:34<Tuplad>I guess the dfsg-free will give better quality
17:34<frost>Floating pernt would be more precise.
17:35<abrotman>Tuplad: and better/worse performance
17:35*frost wonders what base package needs to be installed to give basic functionality.
17:35<abrotman>Tuplad: and some architectures don't cope well with floating point math
17:36<abrotman>some very old architectures
17:36<Tuplad>abrotman: :o so stick with 321 ?
17:36<jaakko>frost: what functionality are you missing?
17:36-!-Metal_Militia [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
17:36<Tuplad>jaakko: does mutt update itself ? or do I have to press some magic button ?
17:37<jaakko>Tuplad: mutt update, do you mean new mail?
17:37-!-bocian [] has joined #debian
17:37<Tuplad>jaakko: yeah :}
17:37<abrotman>Tuplad: i'd use mpg123 as long as your CPU is sufficiently fast
17:38<jaakko>Tuplad: it checks it after a while, I don't know exact time. I think you can config it, google.. :)
17:38<Tuplad>jaakko: oh, np then
17:38<Tuplad>abrotman: roger that
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17:38<Tuplad>phillipsjk: why isnt lynx saving it's settings ? :p I have to reconfigure it everytime I start it
17:38<phillipsjk>frost accoring to google you are experiencing a benign bug that can be suppressed by speciying -t iso9660 in /etc/mtab for the CD-rom
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17:40<phillipsjk>tup type 'o' then check the "Save Options to disk" box, then select the "Accept Changes" link.
17:41-!-dice [] has left #debian []
17:41<Hideo>w3m is better than lynx imho
17:41<phillipsjk>... or just edit .lynxrc directly with vim ;)
17:41<Tuplad>phillipsjk: oh, it's an option marked with ! -_-"
17:41<frost>I just installed etch, but couldn't run tasksel without the kernel being deleted, because of a bug in the Shane "SpeakUP netinst CD, so there's a base package that was never installed. I keep getting an "UDF-fs: No VRS found" error.
17:41<Tuplad>Hideo: gonna master it sometime soon:p
17:42-!-leckmeinefotzeduhure [] has joined #debian
17:42<leckmeinefotzeduhure>meine fotze stinkt
17:42-!-bocian [] has left #debian []
17:42<leckmeinefotzeduhure>wer will lecken?
17:42-!-leckmeinefotzeduhure is now known as fotze
17:42<fotze><---lecken yeah
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17:42<engywuck>du oberarsch hast dir nicht mal was intelligentes einfallen lassen.... bist du so primitiv, das nichtmal ans publikum anzupassen?
17:43<fotze>halts maul
17:43<fotze>primitiv ist geil
17:43<fotze>du hurensohn
17:43-!-user01 [] has joined #debian
17:43*Tuplad cheers for engywuck
17:43<fotze>mein anal kanal will deinen schwanz
17:43<engywuck>tried now msmtp
17:43<engywuck>same error
17:43<fotze>try my ass
17:44<user01>how do i manually activate a 3com card on a old computer running etch? lspci shows it
17:44-!-moivoi [] has joined #debian
17:44<fotze>hart ficken
17:44<fotze>immer mehr hart ficken
17:44<Tuplad>kick fotze, anyone?
17:45<fotze>fick Tuplad
17:45<fotze>fick Tuplad
17:45<jaakko>user01: Can you see it in interfaces, ifconfig -a?
17:45<fotze>fick Tuplad
17:45<fotze>fick Tuplad
17:45<fotze>fick meine fotze ud hrensohn
17:45<fotze>hitler liebt dich
17:45<fotze>ich fick dich hart
17:45<user01>jaakko, yep
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17:46<amphi>"Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens"
17:46<Tuplad>oh my, I got fans :o
17:46<fotze>friss dein speed amphi
17:46<fotze>Tuplad: hure
17:46<fotze>Tuplad = hure
17:46<fotze>Tuplad = hure
17:47<fotze>Tuplad = hure
17:47<fotze>Tuplad = hure
17:47<phillipsjk>fotse: Shprechen sie engish?
17:47<jaakko>user01: Ok, then you have a driver. Modify /etc/network/interfaces and then "ifup eth?" (?=your iface)
17:47<Hideo>English, motherfuckers, do you speak it?
17:47<amphi>!ops fotze spamming
17:47<dpkg>Hydroxide, bob2, caphuso, dondelelcaro, doogie, eeyore-, ElectricElf, ):, helix, ljlane, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, Netsnipe, TML, walters, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Alife, Myon, Ganneff, Maulkin, weasel, zobel: amphi complains about: fotze spamming
17:47<fotze>Hideo: i only speak fuckish
17:47-!-mode/#debian [+o Myon] by ChanServ
17:47-!-fotze [] has quit [autokilled: This host violated network policy. If you feel an error has been made, please contact, thanks. (2008-03-30 21:47:39)]
17:47<engywuck>!tell fotze -about de
17:47<engywuck>ah well, thats even better
17:48<@Ganneff>no prob
17:48<zobel>myon war schneller...
17:48-!-josemanuel [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:48*Tuplad thanks Myon and Ganneff
17:48<@Myon>Ganneff wars
17:48<abrotman>See, that's what happens when you use "lol" :)
17:48-!-mode/#debian [-o Myon] by Myon
17:48-!-mode/#debian [+o Myon] by ChanServ
17:48-!-jurkomurko [] has quit []
17:49-!-mode/#debian [-o Myon] by Myon
17:49<Supaplex>!cheer Myon
17:49<jaakko>user01: You need only one row: iface eth2 inet dhcp
17:50<Supaplex>yes abrotman. just ask ;)
17:51<Tuplad>any midnight commander users here? :}
17:51*Supaplex was years ago
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17:53<Tuplad>can I view doc files somehow ? :D
17:53<Supaplex>with worddocs?
17:53-!-matsch [] has joined #debian
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17:54<Tuplad>through console, via mc
17:54<engywuck>try some version of antiword then
17:54<phillipsjk>tup: I just read the text between the garbage :P
17:55<engywuck>or "strings abc.doc"
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17:55<Supaplex>!tell Tuplad -about search
17:55<Supaplex>"microsoft word" searches find wv, might might be a good match
17:56<phillipsjk>msg dpkg -about search
17:56<jaakko>Tuplad: are you using etch? (just wondering the mutt sending mail..)
17:56<Tuplad>jaakko: lenny
17:56<Supaplex>or vigor if you're bored ;-o
17:57<phillipsjk>hmm dpkg doesn't like me today :(
17:57<Tuplad>but I dont wanna use antiword or any stuff(unless necessary), cant I just view doc files through mc ? I have no gui whatsoever btw, working through tty
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17:57<phillipsjk>Tup: mc uses 3rd part "helper" programs for a lot of things
17:57<Tuplad>phillipsjk: :o
17:58<engywuck>vigor, wasn't that the vi clone with clippy? ;-)
17:58<Supaplex>phillipsjk: try /query dpkg
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17:58<Supaplex>your last /msg forgot the /
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17:58<phillipsjk>Supaplex my third last /msg, you mean :)
17:59<Supaplex>oh maybe. I'm not counting the ones I didn't see
18:00<engywuck>oh well, alpine reads my mailboxens, mutt can send mail
18:00<user01>jaakko, thanks got it forgot i had disabled it a long long time ago
18:00<engywuck>I need a mixer that mixes thes ttwo so that both work in one mixed program :)
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18:01<phorce1>Debian etch running a web server and mailing list for a group I belong to. I need to allow others to edit the web pages but would prefer they use scp rather than setting up an ftp server. BUT, is there a way to lock individuals into only being able to see the directories/files that belong to their specific group (multiple sites) like when using a chroot for ftp? And I'm talking about people who will connect with graphical clients like winscp -- when they cone
18:01<user01>do you think a pentium ii 300 mhz would run gnome ok?
18:02<Supaplex>oh hi phorce1 :)
18:02<user01>i need to give my family something until they got a new computer
18:02<phorce1>mornin' Supaplex
18:02<amphi>user01: I would try xfce on that
18:02<user01>amphi, i have openbox on it
18:02<Tuplad>so I found something for Mc I think
18:02<Tuplad>something named "wv"
18:03<user01>amphi, but wanted to give them something more user friendly
18:03<phillipsjk>user01: If it doesn't have more than 128MB or RAM, you may want to try xfce or FVWM
18:03<amphi>user01: yes, that's why I suggested xfce
18:03<Supaplex>user01: openbox is also light weight
18:04<abrotman>user01: xfce is pretty user friendly
18:04<abrotman>user01: how much RAM does the system have?
18:04<Tuplad>how do I kill a tty ? :D
18:04<abrotman>the whole thing?
18:05*phorce1 wishes the customers who are supposed to pick up a trailer would get back. I have a hog to butcher and Debian computers to FUBAR
18:05<jaakko>phorce1: isn't chmod for that?
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18:05<Tuplad>abrotman: yep
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18:05<abrotman>Tuplad: kill <pid>
18:05<phorce1>jaakko: doesn't really stop them from browsing the system even if they can't make changes to much of it
18:05<abrotman>phorce1: chroot ?
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18:06<phorce1>abrotman: with a usernamed ssh connection? Is that possible? I know that secure FTP servers like ProFTPd can be set up that way in the config files.
18:07<abrotman>phorce1: depends if you want them to have a normal ssh session also
18:07<Tuplad>abrotman: thx
18:08<phorce1>abrotman: no, but multiple directories (just not all of them). Eg. "Bob" might have permission to edit SITE1 and SITE3 while "Joe" only has access to SITE2 and "Sally" should have access to SITE1, SITE2, and SITE3. Access based on the groups I assign them to.
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18:10<jaakko>phorce1: so you are worried about viewing system files? With chmod you can deny them browsing other group folders.
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18:10<abrotman>phorce1: what are you trying to stop them from doing ?
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18:12-!-mode/#debian [+l 342] by debhelper
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18:12<phorce1>abrotman: browsing the "rest of the system". I suppose to make it easier on me I'll just have to set up ProFTPd and use the config files to chroot each site.
18:13<abrotman>phorce1: but they have access via ssh anyways?
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18:13<phorce1>abrotman: No, I'll lock them out in sshd configs
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18:14<phorce1>And their shell will be /bin/false
18:14<abrotman>phorce1: try them in groups perhaps?
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18:15<phorce1>abrotman: I'm going to start poking at it tonight so I was looking for ideas. Would be nice if sshd had "Apache style" directory configs specifically for scp use.
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18:15<phorce1>that's what proftpd does
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18:18<jaakko>phorce1: could you change the "shell" to something "chroot /dir"?
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18:19<phorce1>jaakko: Then they would have to use a different username for each tree they should have access to. ProFTPd lets me set up the chroots and define which users/groups have access.
18:21<jaakko>phorce1: yes, of course a ready to go solution is allways easier than create something. If it suits your needs.
18:21<Tuplad>is there any way to print time in console ? ;\
18:21-!-luckylin [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:21<Tuplad>tried echo $time and time, doesnt work though
18:21<jaakko>Tuplad: date
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18:21<dpkg>Before asking in here or on debian-user, you should read the install guide, or if you have already installed, the debian reference, the apt howto. Ask me about <ig>, <docs>, <manuals>, <reference>, <fundamentals>, <newbiedoc>, <refcard>, <faq>, <unix lessons>, <general cli tutorial>. (e.g. in your irc client, type /msg dpkg reference)
18:21<Supaplex>dpkg: 1175+727
18:21<Tuplad>jaakko: oh nice one
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18:23<phorce1>jaakko: I know I can do it FTP I was just hoping something similar was available for a more secure transfer protocol (that has easily useable clients for Windows/Mac like winscp).
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18:23<ellobo>I've been able to compile a -rt patched kernel and compile the debian'ized source of the nvidia kernel driver, but when I try to load X it simply hangs, no output and no log generated, anyone knows what is the problem?
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18:24*phorce1 kinda hated using scp on a Linux box until I discovered that file managers like the one in Gnome can make use of it.
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18:25<phorce1>commandline scp sucks
18:25<abrotman>it's not that bad .. wussy
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18:26<ellobo>hum... probably I am making a supid question, or trying to do something no one else dares ! :)
18:26<phorce1>abrotman: years of ftp 'get and put' at the commandline spoiled me.
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18:26<ellobo>you all should try smbclient :)
18:27<ellobo>it's the worst file transfer client I've known...
18:27<phorce1>ellobo: I am slowly destroying all smb shares that don't absolutely have to be in our network
18:27<ellobo>phorce1: my network clients are all windows :-P
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18:28<ellobo>phorce1: that's easy to say when you are not working in a public school
18:28<themill>phorce1: you know you can do tab completion with scp too though, don't you?
18:28<ellobo>themill: . /etc/bash_completion :)
18:28<Supaplex>rsync ftw :P
18:28<themill>ellobo: yep ;)
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18:29<dpkg>rumour has it, sshfs is sshfs-fuse, or not shfs, or a nifty way to securely mount remote resources (without NFS / Samba). Homepage is at <>, FAQ is at <>. (remember to compile/load 'fuse' module and add yourself to the 'fuse' group)
18:29<phorce1>ellobo: And, if the system hangs before X can even generate a log it's got to be somewhere in the video drivers. Try using the X probe commands (I can't recall them offhand) to test for hardware and see if you can get a good log from that.
18:29<ellobo>phorce1: thnx
18:29<ellobo>phorce1: will try that
18:30-!-ebroder [~broder@REMUS.MIT.EDU] has joined #debian
18:30*ellobo is going to shoot himself on the foot (dpkg -i linux-image-... && reboot)
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18:30<phorce1>themill: yes, and with ftp. But when one is copying files from 6 different directories on one machine to their counterparts on another on a weekly basis -- and the filenamse are not regex consistent -- it's a bit useless.
18:31<ellobo>!tell phorce1 about sshfs
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18:32<phorce1>ellobo: You missed the first part of the conversation. <grin>
18:32<themill>phorce1: then nothing is going to help you... if you want to do something often then set things up so they can be scriptable and predictable....
18:32<ebroder>If I'm building a package, what's the right way to add a module to /etc/modules as part of the install process? Just echo it in?
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18:32<phorce1>I need to allow multiple people access to edit web directories WITHOUT allowing them the ability to browse any of the rest of the system (which indicates use of chroot)
18:33<titus>salut a tous
18:33<phorce1>themill: That is something I lived with locally until I discovered drag-n-drop scp in X. Not related to my current issue.
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18:35<themill>phorce1: still sounds like a problem that is asking for being scripted and attended to via a cron job rather than you doing it on a weekly basis.
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18:37<phorce1>themill: to many irons in the fire to play with scripting it right now. It's on my whiteboard in blue ink (nice but not necessary). With drag-n-drop it takes me al of 5 minutes each week and that's done at the same time as other tasks so the time is not actually clockable.
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18:38<themill>phorce1: I would also look at it as being something that you could stuff up by forgetting one of the six files, forgetting to do it at all or by accidentally getting the wrong file. Plus, you're not allowed to take a vacation...
18:39<themill>phorce1: but if you are happy with that, then it stays in the "nice but not essential" category.
18:40<phorce1>themill: I can delegate the file grabbing. The files are already all in the same places so it's hard to forget one. They are persistent in the original spot so forgetting or grabbing the wrong one is no big deal.
18:40*phorce1 takes 3 to 5 months "vacation" time annually.
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18:44<claudia>Hi. When I run a program, how can I see which other programs and/or libraries it calls? Like a subprocess tree?
18:45<claudia>The problem is I can have one user run and root run a program, but other users can't
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18:48<phorce1>Why ask a question and then quit the channel less than 60 seconds later?
18:49-!-mikes_ [~mikes@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:49<phillipsjk>maybe she doesn't know how people use IRC. Or, maybe she got called away.
18:50<graytron>maybe she got the answer already
18:50<phorce1>lsof -c command
18:50<cesurasean>how come I can't get a server to boot up when switching hardware? I took the HDs out of one computer that failed, and placed them in another machine. It seems to go through the boot up process fine, but gets stuck.
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18:51<phorce1>cesurasean: different hardware
18:51<cesurasean>it won't work?
18:51<cesurasean>how can I fix that without losing all of my data?
18:52<phorce1>cesurasean: trying to load modules/drivers specific to the old hardware. Probably will fail horribly
18:52<cesurasean>anyway to fix that so I don't lose data?
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18:52<witte>cesurasean: where does it hang, what is the error?
18:52<phillipsjk>cesurasean: does Ctrl-C help?
18:53<cesurasean>it doesn't give an error
18:53<cesurasean>it just hangs
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18:53<witte>cesurasean: you can put the disks in a different pc, an mount them there
18:53<cesurasean>when I had the keyboard plugged in, it hung when starting up the keyboard
18:53<phorce1>cesurasean: not easy to explain but yes, you can fix it. Build a new kernel and initramfs for the new hardware and install that on the old drives to boot from.
18:54<cesurasean>so, mount the drives in another computer/knoppix disk, and buld a new kernel?
18:55<phorce1>cesurasean: or use a thrid drive to install a working debian system then copy what you need from the old drives.
18:57<cesurasean>freeing unused kernel memory is what makes it stuck. also the keyboard input gets stuck.
18:57<phorce1>cesurasean: Purchasing identical hardware to what failed would be the absolute easiest way.
18:57<cesurasean>they are very similar hardware, so I wouldn't assume it would make a difference.
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18:57<cesurasean>the only difference is the motherboard.
18:57-!-madrescher [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
18:57<cesurasean>the CPU is similar
18:58<witte>cesurasean: same chipset?
18:58<phorce1>cesurasean: Uhhh that would be the BIGGEST difference between the two. RTC hardware, northbridge, southbridge etc.
18:58<cesurasean>shouldn't there be an error instead of just hangin?
18:59<phorce1>cesurasean: How can it give an error if it fails at the first attemto to access RAM?
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19:02<phorce1>cesurasean: If everything else is identical (ie. you used a separate card for Ethernet etc) then you should be able to build a new kernel and initramfs using a rescue CD like knoppix then manually install those into grub for booting
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19:03<phorce1>cesurasean: if you used motherboard ethernet and built in video you will have other issues to deal with after you get it bootable
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19:05<cesurasean>I'm not using kde, or gnome. Should I use the same video card, and the same ethernet?
19:05<cesurasean>How do I go about building a new kernel exactly?
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19:05<cesurasean>thank god this isn't Windows or I'd be screwed.
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19:07<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, rescue is at ("Can I use d-i as a rescue system?") See also <rescue mode>.
19:08<jaakko>cesurasean: you could boot with live CD, chroot into HD, and use "aptitude install kernel-.."
19:09<Supaplex>real men use netboot ;)
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19:11<jaakko>cesurasean: are you sure that the device is still same as /dev/hda1, so the problem is not in bootloader settings?
19:12<Killing_Frost>Hello. Anyone know which task package is installed by selecting "Standard Environment" from the tasksel screen on the netinst CD for Etch?
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19:13<ranix>not off the top of my head, Killing_Frost
19:13<abrotman>Killing_Frost: there's no task .. it installs all "standard" priority packages
19:14<Killing_Frost>That's what never got installed, unfortunately. The Shane SpeakUP CD has a bug, and I had to skip the tasksel option.
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19:15<phorce1>Killing_Frost: have you tried running tasksel now that you have a very minimul bootable system>
19:15<abrotman>Killing_Frost: you can `aptitude install "~pstandard"`
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19:16<cesurasean>whoever said ethernet and video card is a life saver!
19:16<cesurasean>replaced those, and it boots fine now. :)
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19:17<phillipsjk>cesurasean: the original box?
19:17<Killing_Frost>Tried it and the option is gone.Will give that a try. Thank you.
19:18<cesurasean>I put the videocard and ethernet from the old box into the new one. Boot fine now.
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19:19<phorce1>cesurasean: I would still do an apt-get --reinstall install linux-image-xx.xx.xx to clean up the modules and initramfs.
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19:20<phorce1>cesurasean: It was probably not actually hanging before. Just using the wrong video modules so you weren't seeing the output after modules started getting loaded
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19:21<cesurasean>ok, cool. thanks for the info phorce1.
19:21<cesurasean>I'll do the apt-get in a second.
19:21<cesurasean>how do I know which kernel I am running?
19:22<phorce1>cesurasean: Winblows is worse. I have a customer with XP-home that needs a new MB. Luckily I can still boot the old machine to pull som info but it's going to have to be a full reinstall to get the new MB working.
19:22<phorce1>cesurasean: uname -a
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19:22<Killing_Frost>Jeez! That must've been it.
19:23<cesurasean>yeah, unless you install with a similar board.
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19:23<cesurasean>I just had a mobo die on my gaming machine. Had to relicense the machine.
19:23<cesurasean>I knew the board for Windows needed to be similar, so that's what I shopped for.
19:24<phorce1>cesurasean: It's an old Duron-700 that is dying. Replacing with original hardware would be more expensive than an upgrade
19:25<cesurasean>I'd chunk that crap away in the garbage.
19:25<Killing_Frost>Thanks fellas. It's much appreciated.
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19:25<Supaplex>I'll take the psu, if it's still good :P
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19:26<cesurasean>server:~# apt-get --reinstall linux-image-2.6.18-6-686
19:26<cesurasean>E: Invalid operation linux-image-2.6.18-6-686
19:26<Hideo>you forgot install
19:26<Supaplex>it's apt-get install --reinstall linux-image-2.6.18-6-686
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19:26<phorce1>Supaplex: I'm pretty sure the PSU is one we installed last year. Generic noname 350W atx PS
19:26*Hideo slaps cesurasean
19:26<cesurasean>I'd forget my brain if it wasn't attached.
19:27<cesurasean>or inside my head
19:27<Supaplex>apt-get remove --purge brain oops ;)
19:27<Hideo>"brain not found"
19:27<k1lumin4t1>could anybody explain why kernel 2.6.24 made it into debian lenny/sid and 2.6.23 never made it?
19:27<cesurasean>this will rebuild my kernel to match the new hardware?
19:27<ircMonkey>Hi, I have done "apt-get install xfont-terminus"; what must I do to see it with xlsfont?
19:27<Supaplex>I can't tell you how many bug reports I've seen where --purge did as it's told, and the reporter is mad :P
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19:28<phorce1>cesurasean: It will recreate the initramfs to match the new hardware
19:28-!-sysop [~sysop@] has joined #debian
19:28<Hideo>phorce1: if that was the case, you could always do update-initramfs -u
19:28<Killing_Frost>2.6.23 was too tweaked. I think they really messed up on com port support.
19:28<phorce1>cesurasean: the kernel image is a "stock" build for your CPU. It's the initramfs that preloads modules for the rest of the hardware.
19:28<cesurasean>other computer would boot into linux, then shut itself off once someone requested a webpage. Strange.
19:29*Killing_Frost wished would do that.
19:29<cesurasean>I left the other computer on the bios screen, and it ran for hours. Only when booting linux would it turn itself off.
19:29<phorce1>Hideo: apt-get --reinstall install is easier for me to remember because apt-get is used more often
19:29<Hideo>aye, whichever works :P
19:30<Killing_Frost>alias inst='aptitude -q install'
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19:31<phorce1>Hideo: I don't actualy use either bcause I've bastardized my kernel version to badly to let apt handle it. Needed tweaks for some DVB-S drivers I was testing for a developer.
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19:31*Killing_Frost jamz...
19:31<Killing_Frost>Keep well, all.
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19:33<LaicepS>is there a way which app create a folder ?
19:33-!-AnglaChel [] has quit []
19:33*phorce1 has to go set up a place to cut up a hog before all the ice in the cooler melts. Be back later
19:33-!-AnglaChel [] has joined #debian
19:33<LaicepS>+to know
19:33<Hideo>cut up a hog?
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19:34<abrotman>Hideo: butcher
19:34<phillipsjk>Hideo as in pig.
19:34*phorce1 went hunting last week
19:34<Hideo>you're gonna kill an alive and kicking pig?
19:35<Hideo>with your own hands?
19:35<phillipsjk>uh.. I gather its dead already.
19:35<phorce1>Hideo: Note the reference to "ice in cooler". Already did the killing and skinning. It's in 5 large pieces in the cooler. I need to make chops and roasts and rib racks of of it now.
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19:36<Hideo>I see
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19:37<LaicepS>Is there a way to keep the commands done by someone who ssh my comp ?
19:37<LaicepS>In a file or something.
19:38<Supaplex>LaicepS: accounting (but w/o commandline arguments)
19:38<Everton>how many users are here?
19:38<Supaplex>Everton: plenty. why?
19:38<LaicepS>Supaplex, didn't understand, sorry, i'm bad in english&gnu/linux :)
19:39<Supaplex>acct - The GNU Accounting utilities for process and login accounting
19:39<LaicepS>Ah thanks.
19:39<Everton>are you brazilian?
19:39<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
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19:41<jaakko>I hate chmod.. I see everywhere that /etc/passwd example giving to a user root privileges. But I can't get it work for my own script.
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19:41<jaakko>In my script is one command, chroot. I can run the script as root, but not as user.
19:42<jaakko>"/usr/sbin/chroot: cannot change root directory". How I chmod the script to allow user chroot?
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19:49<Supaplex>jaakko: allowing unfettered chroot access is ill advised
19:49<Supaplex>there is fakechroot though
19:52<jaakko>Supaplex: I'm just testing things, not actual users. I just don't understand that chmod thing, can't get it run as user.
19:52<Supaplex>!don't work
19:52<dpkg>Look buddy, "doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message".
19:53<Supaplex>what happens when you run it as a user?
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19:54<jaakko>Supaplex: I said it.. but here it is "/usr/sbin/chroot: cannot change root directory to /home/jaakko/juuri/: Operation not permitted"
19:54<Supaplex>that's not chmod, that's chroot
19:54<Supaplex>only root is allowed to chroot() - fakechroot is a workaround
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19:55<jaakko>Supaplex: I suppose you did not read my question earlier.
19:55<jaakko>I asked how can I chmod that script so user can run it.
19:56<witte>jaakko: you do run it
19:56<witte>jaakko: it is just that part of the internals of that script can be run
19:56<jaakko>Supaplex: As there is the /etc/passwd example on many web pages, where users get root privileges.
19:56<Supaplex>you apparently did run it, because when it calls chroot, chroot whines it has no access
19:56<Supaplex>that would be for sudo to hand out, if you want users to have root
19:56<witte>jaakko: if you do want to have that script running, you need to chmod /usr/sbin/chroot (but DON'T do that)
19:57<Supaplex>what are you really trying to do with this script? why did you write it?
19:58<jaakko>Supaplex: As I said, I am only experimenting. And I wanted to be able "chroot" as user. So I wrote a script, which has one line (chroot..). I thought I could chmod the script so the user will run it as a root.
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19:58<Supaplex>you can't
19:59<Supaplex>not as a ordinary user. you'd have to escalate your rights to root with sudo or similar
19:59<Supaplex>chroot() is only something root can do.
20:00<Supaplex>it's not an issue about executing the script, it's a an issue about capabilities only root has
20:00<jaakko>Supaplex: ? so how is this different from the /usr/bin/passwd example where user can change /etc/passwd file?
20:00<Supaplex>man 2 chroot
20:01<Supaplex>because passwd has a setuid permissions
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20:01<jaakko>Supaplex: yes, and those I'm trying to give to my script
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20:02<jaakko>Supaplex: it is not possible?
20:02<Supaplex>only elf a.out and some other limited binaries will take effect on suid/gid permissions. scripts are ignore (it'd be really easy to break those)
20:02<Supaplex>use sudo if you must
20:02<Supaplex> Only a privileged process (Linux: one with the CAP_SYS_CHROOT capability) may call chroot(2).
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20:03<Supaplex>let me re-ask, what are you trying to accomplish with this script? (suppose chroot wasn't restricted too)
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20:05<jaakko>Supaplex: Someone asked the chrooted ssh thing and I tried putting a chroot script in /etc/passwd, so when user is logging in, he would automatically chroot to certain dir.
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20:06<Supaplex>ahh yes. phorce1. well, there's a pam way to do this, but I didn't look into this issue yet. there's also a /etc/shells drop in for sftp/scp only access (possibly chrooted into their $HOME)
20:06<jaakko>Supaplex: I have no need actual need for that. I want to try and learn things. And it is good to know the suid thing is so limited, didn't know.
20:07<Supaplex>rssh looks like the ticket
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20:08<Supaplex>it's no accident grsecuirty patch has laundry list of additional restrictions available for chroot() calls. :)
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20:10<jaakko>what damage can user do with chroot? isn't he chrooting only him self?
20:11-!-twodogs [] has joined #debian
20:11<witte>jaakko: if you chroot as a normal user in /, you can just change the root password
20:11<twodogs>hello peeps
20:11<witte>jaakko: amongst other nasty stuff you could do.
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20:12<twodogs>can anyone recommend a good PCIE video card that has good drivers in etch... something less than $100?
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20:14<jaakko>witte: does it change user id/permissions? (can't test because it is not allowed :-|)
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20:15<witte>jaakko: i don't know that much about, just used it with live cd's when i had problems, but basically, you just become root, with "/" in the directory you point to
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20:16<jaakko>witte: I think it changes the directory to root directory, not user to root.
20:16<jaakko>witte: but perhaps it is both
20:17<witte>jaakko: for further reading
20:17<witte>jaakko: and it does not change teh directory to the root directory, it makes the directory the root directory (which is something entirely different)
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20:18<marcel>I'm running lenny. I understand there's a new 2.6.24 kernel. Apt-get doesn't show it. How do I get it?
20:18<witte>marcel: apt-cache search linux-image
20:19<witte>marcel: kernels aren't updated automatically
20:19<twodogs>marcel: kernels are big changes... so no auto update on those
20:20<witte>marcel: after you have identified the one that you want, you can install these manually wiht aptitude install linux-image-...
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20:20<marcel>twodogs: ah. Q: In Gnome desktop there's the handy litte icon showing updates available - KDE doesn't offer that?
20:21<marcel>AMD platform - is 486 preferred over 686?
20:21<twodogs>marcel: dont use kde much so i couldnt tell ya
20:21<marcel>got an answer to other Q?
20:21<witte>marcel: normally 686, unless you have a very old or a amd64 processor
20:22<themill>marcel: there's update-notifier and adept-notifier
20:22<marcel>themill: won't they install a bunch of Gnome stuff?
20:22<marcel>witte: thx
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20:23<witte>marcel: there used to be k7 specific kernels, but i do not think the make those anymore, the difference is quite limiter
20:23<marcel>I'm needing the newer kernel b/c of wanting to install vmware - need the headers an' all. 2.6.22 won't do headers.....
20:23<twodogs>anyone have a recommendation for a PCIE video card for etch less than $100
20:23<themill>marcel: adept is a purely kde/qt application
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20:23<themill>marcel: /msg dpkg sdn
20:24<ellobo>I've got 2 interfaces in a br0 bridge wlan0 and eth0, but when I "dhclient br0" it allways tries the eth0 interface first, I want it to request the address on the wlan0 only, is this possible?
20:24<themill>marcel: you can pick up the old header packages from there
20:24<jaakko>witte: good reading. I have used chroot, so I know in practise what it does. Have to read more tomorrow.. going to sleep.
20:25<twodogs>ellobo: The only way i know you could do that is : ifconfig wlan0 down then ifconfig wlan0 up...
20:25<twodogs>there is mostl likely a better way.. but thats what i know
20:25<marcel>I notice qemu and xen have specif kernel (modules?) Is that the same for vmware? Don't see that
20:25-!-docmur [~docmur@] has joined #debian
20:26<docmur>Hello all
20:26<chealer>marcel: which Linux image do you use?
20:26<ellobo>twodogs: you meant ifconfig eth0 down; dhclient br0; ifconfig eth0 up ?
20:26-!-jaakko [] has quit [Quit: sleeping..]
20:26<docmur>I connected my USB device but I don't know what it's calling it I did ls /dev/ | grep sd and nothing shows up for the usb device
20:26<marcel>chealer: 2.6.22-486
20:26<chealer>marcel: which CPU do you use?
20:26<twodogs>marcel: i believe that vmware is a application... xen is a mod
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20:27<abrotman>vmware doesn't care
20:27<marcel>correction: 2.3.22-3-486
20:27<marcel>twodogs/abrotman: rthx
20:27<abrotman>marcel: which vesrion of debian are you on ?
20:27<abrotman>marcel: and yes .. waht is your CPU ?
20:27<marcel>abrotman: lenny
20:27<abrotman>your kernel is out of date
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20:28<marcel>abrotman: Athlon XP 2000 (I know...) 1.5G Ram
20:28<ellobo>twodogs: solved :) I did addif br wlan0, then dhclient br0, and then addif br0 eth0 :)
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20:28<abrotman>marcel: you may want `aptitude install linux-image-2.6-686`
20:28<twodogs>ellobo: Sweet
20:28<chealer>marcel: install linux-image-686
20:28<docmur>what is the device given to USB things
20:28<marcel>abrotman/chealer: will do
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20:29<witte>docmur: that really depends on the things
20:29<docmur>a mp3 player
20:29<docmur>more specificly the iAudio x5
20:29<witte>docmur: look in dmesg output (near the end)
20:30<marcel>what's the diff: linux-image-686 vs inux-image-2.6.24-1-686
20:30<witte>docmur: or rather at the end if you unplug it and plug it in again
20:30<docmur>good idea
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20:30<docmur>it's shows it
20:30<docmur>but I can't see what device it's going to
20:31<NeoJew>I'm trying to install XP over Debian. It keeps saying that it can't find a HDD, I know this isn't an XP channel/server, but is it because of how Debian formatted the HDD that it's confusing the Windows installer?
20:31<marcel>I will need headers also - can I / is it safe to apt-get at the same time?
20:31<docmur>thats the output
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20:31<docmur>of dmesg
20:32<witte>docmur: that loads usb-storage, which would suggest you would get something like /dev/sdX1, but normally that shows in dmesg as well
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20:33<docmur>hence my problem
20:33<chealer>marcel: did you read their descriptions?
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20:33<marcel>chealer: ummm - just reading apt-cache search output....
20:33<witte>docmur: you don't see any unknown things in ls /dev/sd*?
20:34<docmur>I think it might be because I don't have scsi built into my kernel
20:35<user01>how do i search for a package to install via the command line?
20:35<user01>im trying not to use synaptic
20:35<witte>docmur: do you have a standard debian kernel?
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20:35<marcel>user01: apt-cache search [package name]
20:35<user01>marcel, thanks
20:35<docmur>no I always build costume kernels
20:35<docmur>I just built the scsi back in
20:35<marcel>user01: is limited, depending on your sources.list
20:36<witte>docmur: costume kernels, nice :d
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20:36<witte>docmur: can you try with a debian one, than we know if it is your kernel, or a general linux support thing.
20:37<witte>docmur: if it works with the debian kernel, you can see with lsmod which drivers are needed, and include them in your kernel
20:37<marcel>(bump) should I get linux-image-686 or linux-image-2.6.24-1-686?
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20:38<marcel>I'm not clear on the diff between the two...
20:39<witte>marcel: linux-image-686 is a symlink to the latest kernel, if you want to have your kernel updated whenever there is a new version you need this one. If you want to do that by hand take 2.6.24-...
20:39<chealer>marcel: don't you use some graphical package manager?
20:39<marcel>witte: thx
20:39<abrotman>marcel: it's a metapackage .. the linux-image-686 should guarantee that you always have the newest available
20:40<marcel>chealer: yes, but a search for linux-image did not give the result I get from apt-cache search????
20:40<chealer>NeoJew: no, I'd be very surprised
20:40<marcel>thx guys - I had a feeling you'd say that
20:40<chealer>marcel: which one do you use?
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20:40<marcel>currently? > 2.6.22.-3-486
20:41<chealer>marcel: no, which graphical package manager?
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20:42<deebus>can someone tell me how to set my background image with enlightenment?
20:42<deebus>I know that's a newbish question and all, but I actually can't find it
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20:42<marcel>my bad.... didn't select the "all" tab....
20:42<chealer>marcel: ouch. that's really old. I recommend you switch to synaptic. even if I use KDE, synaptic is the non-Qt application I use most often.
20:43<marcel>blame the Lenny that came down the pipe from a net-install
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20:43<marcel>But it IS limited, yes
20:43<chealer>marcel: yeah, I suppose. the KDE tasks are far from perfect.
20:44<deebus>anyone know how I can set background images in enlightenment?
20:44<marcel>chealer: if it weren't for Kipi plugins, I'd never have KDE... :-(
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20:56<user01>is there an account manager for xfce ?
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20:56<user01>in gnome it is just user accounts
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20:57<user01>unless there is a quick way to create a user with adduser wherby they get all user priveleges as my default user
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20:59<abrotman>all user privileges ?
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21:09<twb`>Why is Python 2.4 still the "default" python in Sid?
21:09-!-twb` is now known as twb
21:09<abrotman>twb: the change is coming
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21:10<twb>abrotman: how can I track progress in this area?
21:10<abrotman>it was in a release update ..
21:10<bighornram>any users of barry for blackberry? Using amd64 sid, what is the best way to install packages these days? Do I create a 32-bit chroot or simply install packages. OR is it best to compile?
21:10<abrotman>not sure when it's actually goingto happen
21:10<abrotman>twb: there is a #debian-python
21:10<twb>abrotman: thank you.
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21:11<twb>(I don't normally deal with Python, so I'm not familiar with their subproject infrastructure.)
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21:17<user01>what etc file do i edit to have x start automatically?
21:18<twb>user01: apt-get install foodm, where foodm is one of xdm, gdm, kdm, slim or entrance
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21:19<user01>twb, for xfce and minimal install, which is the best (slow computer), slim?
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21:23<twb>user01: arguably slim or xdm, but I doubt you'll notice performance issues even if you use gdm.
21:24<twb>xdm is very old and stable, and slim is very new and experimental. Unlike xdm, gdm and kdm let you pick which "session" you want, rather than requiring you to write a .xsession (which may just be a symlink to /usr/bin/xfce-session).
21:25<twb>I use xdm on my eeepc, but that's mainly because I'm old and set in my ways.
21:25*nothnew jumps
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21:26<ranix>you got an eee, twb?
21:26<twb>ranix: correct.
21:26<ranix>wasn't expecting to see one of those around these parts due to overpricing
21:26<ranix>how does it compare to the $250 ebay laptop
21:26<twb>ranix: I don't have one of those.
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21:27<ranix>I thought everyone had a couple by now. They're starting to get discarded for minor problems like dead hard drives or power problems
21:27<ranix>laptops in general that is
21:28<twb>ranix: an eeepc is powerful enough for my simple needs, is smaller than a 12" thinkpad, and unlike the XO-1 has a keyboard I like. It has terrible battery life (3.5hrs) and a VERY slow charge time (perhaps 2hrs), and it needs nonstandard madwifi and atl2 drivers
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21:30<ranix>huh. That was a pretty concise review. Glad you like it
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21:30<twb>I like that it uses a solid state drive, but I don't like it's Celeron CPU nor that it needs a fan (moving parts are bad).
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21:32<ranix>I was hoping for more out of the battery life
21:32<twb>I'd also prefer a DVI-D output instead of VGA/D-SUB, though its i9x0 GPU can drive 1600x1200 (external) + 800x480 fine, and it can do 3d acceleration about as well as my last machine's Radeon 9000.
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21:33<twb>Ultimately it's a good match for my needs (which amount to running Emacs and ssh in small-font xterms), but third or fourth generation could include a lot of improvements over the current design.
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21:39<ranix>the worst thing about windows is the frigging locales
21:39<ranix>I have to reboot my goddamn computer to type japanese text
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21:40<ranix>and reboot again if I want to not have all my driver options menus in japanese
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21:50<dpalacio>ranix: you do not really have to reboot
21:51<twb>ranix: IME you need a special east asian version of windows to type Japanese at all! What polyglots use when they need both bidi and CJK on Windows, I do not know.
21:51<twb>Probably they go insane.
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21:53<wouterl>Is there a way to access sound (/dev/dsp) without doing a chown on it? it's just because normal users can't play music (I'm using lenny)
21:54<kop>wouterl : You add the user's allowed to use sound to the audio group.
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21:54<kop>wouterl : (Unless you've chgrp-ed it and broken it.)
21:54<wouterl>kop, i didn't do a chgrp on it ...
21:55<wouterl>i'll try it
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21:58<twb>usermod -a -G audio wouterl
21:58<twb>(Assuming you're using flat files and not LDAP or NIS or something.)
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22:03<wouterl>i'll try a relogin ...
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22:06<woodyst>please, anyone knows if there's any issue with etch and rtc in an arm-linux with i2c rtc? with sarge both hwclock and date work fine, but in etch (kernel with 'date' I get 1-1-1970, but with hwclock time and date are fine. Any suggestion?
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22:09<wouterl>allright, got it to work, thanks kop!
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22:11<user01>thanks for everyone's help tonight got a PII with 8GB hard drive up and running for a family :)
22:12<user01>64 MB ram
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22:13<dli>user01, great story
22:14<user01>dli, yeah not much of a story teller xfce seems to work fine though i think maybe openbox would have been faster
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22:15<user01>cupsys i think was the largest
22:15<user01>xfce is more user friendly though i suppose
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22:17<dli>user01, amazing, you have xfce on 64mb
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22:19<GhostlyDeath|Laptop>How would I use my ipw3945 in 2.6.24 without modules?
22:19<wouterl>dli, i agree, i have an old imac with 98 MB of ram still running sarge... it works, but it's not really fast ...
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22:20<twb>GhostlyDeath|Laptop: suck on the cable and alter your galvanic conductivity in order to simulate ones and zeroes?
22:20<GhostlyDeath|Laptop>twb: what?
22:20<dli>wouterl, I have a 1.4GHz (locked to 500MHz), 384mb, still feel very slow with xfce
22:21<dli>wouterl, fluxbox is much better
22:21<wouterl>dli, true, but xfce is much more user-friendly
22:21<kop>dli: Locked to 500MHz?
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22:21<wouterl>dli, i wouldn't see my mom using fluxbox ;)
22:22<dli>kop, yes, laptop
22:22<kop>dli: Ah. Thanks.
22:22<dli>wouterl, try icewm, or fvwm
22:23<dli>wouterl, with proper config, it looks like windows
22:23<twb>GhostlyDeath|Laptop: you can't use hardware without the appropriate modules.
22:23<twb>dli: fluxbox is a WM; XFCE is a DE. It's a bit unfair to compare them.
22:23<kop>I have my mom on gnome. But really, she uses what I put in the menu bar and that's about it. She could probably use anything.
22:25<kop>GhostlyDeath|Laptop : Well, you could recompile the kernel and build the driver into the image.
22:25<twb>IceWM still has the best Windows *feel* emulation AFAICT; for example it binds Alt+Esc correctly. (It's look emulation is still stuck at the XP level.)
22:25<twb>!tell GhostlyDeath|Laptop about m-a
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22:25<dli>running xfce4 on 64mb is a real task :)
22:26<kop>user01 : 64MB. More RAM is always better, better, better.
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22:26<Supaplex>uhh upgrade ftw? :P or atleast swapd hehe
22:26<twb>dli: running *aptitude* or *xorg* on 64MB is difficult.
22:27<twb>dli: I know for a fact that I need at least 54MB to boot Lenny, and that dpkg then doesn't work unless I also add swap
22:28<kop>I ran named on a 24MB 486 until etch (I think). Then I gave up. Past a certain point it's not worth it.
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22:28*Supaplex pulls out years old stick of 64mb pc66 and fires them off at twb's pc *PEW* *PEW* *PEW*
22:28<dli>kop, too long to boot the kernel itself, I guess
22:29<twb>Supaplex: I'm running VMs.
22:29<twb>Supaplex: it seems silly to give them 2GB of RAM and then have the VM software juggle it between guests
22:29<Supaplex>misdirect :P - brain isn't totally on yet after nap()
22:29<twb>FSVO give as in advertise 2GB to each guest, but not actually be able to give them 2GB
22:31<user01>kop, why? 640K ought to be enough for anybody
22:31<dpkg>Bill Gates personally assured me 640K should be enough for ANYONE! Yay Bill!
22:31<Hideo>bah real mean use an abacus
22:32<Supaplex>real people do it in their head
22:32<Hideo>wtf, my brain is not functioning
22:32<user01>real men just follow their hearts
22:32<Supaplex>Hideo: hehe EFAIL
22:32<user01>my heart told me to install xfce4 with 64MB and it was right
22:32<twb>real men don't use silicon computers, they have banks of human computers operating in pipeline formation.
22:33<Supaplex>!start a wm war
22:33<dpkg>twm blows goats!
22:33<user01>yeah i needed something user friendly for this family though
22:33<twb>I ported tinywm from C to Common Lisp
22:33<twb>Just because I could
22:33<user01>xfce4 seems to work fine
22:33<Supaplex>openbox isn't that hard to wrap your head around.
22:34<twb>Supaplex: it's pretty tedious to manually place windows, though :P
22:34<Supaplex>click the desktop for a menu. class is dismissed.
22:34*Supaplex backported the sid version too
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22:34<twb>Gasp, core packages like fluxbox aren't on bpo? ;-)
22:35<user01>Supaplex, but for some reason it didnt seem that much faser than xfce4, i had openox on it before i wiped it for the
22:35<abrotman>twb: depends ..
22:35-!-kingsley [] has joined #debian
22:35<user01>maybe if i had more windows open i could tell
22:36<user01>besides, there is no audio card on it or anything
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22:39<victo->I just upgraded my kernel from 2.6.22-3 to 2.6.24-1 (dist-upgrade in lenny) but for some reason the .24 kernel doesn't boot (It either hangs after "waiting for dev to be fully populated...done" or will get to the login prompt and won't let me login (i can type in username/password but it just hangs). What error logs should I be looking at to debug this?
22:39<user01>i did a base installation, xdm, xorg, xfce4, iceweasel . . . and cupsys and their dependencies . . . and flash and java . . .
22:40<user01>that was about it maybe openoffice if i feel lucky later on sometime
22:40<dli>victo-, old hardware or new?
22:41-!-user01 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:41<twb>victo-: "waiting for dev to be populated" takes a minute or two for me
22:45<twb>!apt-key oneliner
22:45<dpkg>gpg --keyserver --recv-keys oneliner ; gpg --export oneliner | sudo apt-key add -
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22:48<bighornram>how do I run dpkg-buildpackage from the sourcefiles I already have?
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22:49<victo->twb: It sat there for 2 hours before I rebooted it. It populated it then said done and never continued. dli: Old hardware, 500mhz k62
22:49<victo->er k6-2
22:49<Aleric>What package do I need to place video/x-vcd ?
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22:50<dli>victo-, then, I suggest you to stay with 2.6.23
22:50<twb>victo-: OK, I don't know. Sorry.
22:50<twb>dli: that's hardly a long-term solution
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22:51<dli>victo-, I have a k7 machine which randomly hangs on 2.6.24
22:51-!-thepretender84 [] has joined #debian
22:51<dli>victo-, maybe, they would fix this in future kernel versions
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22:58<NeoJew>What is the URL of that site that has the database of the bot's info?
22:58<dpkg>dpkg is probably the program used by debian to install and remove packages, "man dpkg". also ask me about <apt howto>. The main info bot in #debian is also called dpkg; ask me about <dpkgbot>..
22:58<dpkg>methinks dpkgbot is Please visit to learn how to effectively search the factoids database for FAQ, and not flood in the channel with !tell <who> about <what>. Also see <msg the bot>. We ask that you learn to search for yourself first, unless it is a specific problem. Many questions are asked repeatedly, and the factoid database can be of great help to you.
23:00<NeoJew>What can I use to format my HDD? I'm trying to make it all FAT32, but the Debian installer CD won't let me do that.
23:00<NeoJew>and the XP CD can't find the HDD the way it's formatted now
23:00-!-Johanna [johanna@] has joined #debian
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23:00<dpkg>My factoids are available at They are updated nightly and the previous 18 days are archived. there is a searchable database of my factoids at
23:00<twb>NeoJew: you can't install Debian onto a FAT32 filesystem, it lacks necessary features (e.g. hard and soft link support)
23:01<abrotman>twb: and permissions ?
23:01<twb>abrotman: yes
23:01<twb>It's also a very silly design
23:01<abrotman>you know .. the important part
23:01<dpkg>a linux partition that fits over top of ms-dos, without destroying your ms-0dos/win filesystem. read the umdos-howto. good for testing linux or having a small distro on a small hd running dos if you don't want to delete all your parnd
23:01<Supaplex>but that's old and burried I bet.
23:01<abrotman>Supaplex: that's not quite the same
23:01<twb>Supaplex: is that what puppy linux uses?
23:01<Supaplex>is it even maintained?
23:01<bighornram>I have a diff.gz, a dsc, and orig.tar.gz source files for barry, how do I compile a package from them?
23:02<NeoJew>Well, I want to dual boot and I want to get the HDD FAT32 so hopefully XP Installer will find it. Then I'll partition it then properly so I can dual-boot.
23:02<Supaplex>just resize the filesystem from the debian-installer
23:02<twb>bighornram: dpkg-source -x *dsc && cd */ && dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
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23:03<twb>d-i's partition manager is one of its suckiest parts, IMO
23:03<NeoJew>What should I use instead then?
23:03<twb>Not that e.g. ubiquity's is any better -- it doesn't even support RAID or LVM!
23:03<Supaplex>how do you suggest it improve?
23:04<twb>Supaplex: you can't easily improve it, because d-i is UI-thingy
23:04<twb>UI agnostic
23:04<dpkg>Blow me! oh my bad. Were you considering contributing a patch, or filing a wishlist bug for that?
23:04<Supaplex>knowing that, you can't eaisly complain
23:04<NeoJew>OK, well I'll try the partitioner on the Installer and I'll be back tomorrow if it doesn't work.
23:05<twb>Supaplex: I can still complain about things I can't fix!
23:05-!-NeoJew [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:05<Supaplex>think about your suggestion, and fill us in on it :)
23:05<twb>For example, patent law
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23:05<twb>You don't need a solution to identify a problem.
23:06<Supaplex>point taken. but are you going to help, or just whine? I'm interested in ideas
23:07<Supaplex>i'm indifferent, but if you have suggestions, I'm all ears (as I hope the d-i team are too)
23:07<twb>Ultimately I think you'd either have to fork out to an arbitrary partition manager (e.g. cfdisk or gparted) -- which sucks -- or add new UI widgets to d-i's set, and then extend each of its UIs to use it.
23:07<twb>I don't think I'm saying anything that hasn't already been repeated over and over in the d-i group
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23:08<dondelelcaro>as anoying as the d-i partitioner may be, it's actually one of the best I've seen
23:09<twb>dondelelcaro: I agree.
23:09<twb>With the debatable exception of doing partitioning by hand in the vt2 shell :-)
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23:13<Supaplex>I have a minor issue with the flickering, but I've learned to ignore it over the years.
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23:13<Supaplex>most of the time my test installs only use vserver+debootstrap anyway :)
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23:14<dondelelcaro>twb: yeah, the problem with that is that the number of people who can just run fdisk or cfdisk and partition a disk directly is constantly getting smaller and smaller.
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23:14<twb>Ah, s/// I can agree wih
23:15<twb>But that guarantees ongoing employment for us sysadmins :-)
23:15<Supaplex>hehe. yeawww!
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23:31<Supaplex>is permasunday hiding? :P
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23:47<Hideo>what? it's not that hard to run cfdisk and partition a disk.
23:48<phillipsjk>I assumed they were talking about RIAd setups :/
23:49<phillipsjk>RAID *
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23:51<Solver>I still prefer good ol fdisk
23:52<Solver> /sbin/fdisk I mean :)
23:54<Supaplex>GAH nfs is pwn'n me
23:55*Supaplex tries umount -a -l -t nfs
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---Logclosed Mon Mar 31 00:00:31 2008