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#debian IRC Logs for 2008-04-25

---Logopened Fri Apr 25 00:00:07 2008
---Daychanged Fri Apr 25 2008
00:00<karnov><phillipsjk>: bios --> CHS 000 --> Grub stage 1 (and after stage2 and menu)
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00:00<karnov>/boot/grub/stage1 is 512 byte
00:01<cwood>Older machines needed a /boot at the very start of the drive, iirc. But for most people those days are long gone.
00:02<mzhang>how to create/mkfs/format ntfs partition from linux? or no way?
00:03<gsimmons>mzhang: mkntfs from 'ntfsprogs' should assist.
00:03<phillipsjk>karnov: CHS 000 Assumes an IDE drive! (LILO may assume this, but I could be wrong)
00:05<karnov><phillipsjk> : yes but it's part of the info located in any 16byte (on 4 ) reserved on the mbr for any partition
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00:06<karnov><phillipsjk> : the mbr are not all compliant ?
00:07<karnov><phillipsjk> : you mean , 000 just have a sens in a ide drive ? ah ok ...
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00:09<phillipsjk>karnov: too much detail for me to comment without looking it up :)
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00:10<karnov><phillipsjk> : sorry , too much question from me without looking it up ;)
00:11<karnov>bye all , have a nice day ...
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00:12-!-mode/#debian [+l 342] by debhelper
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01:07<sander>Is there a way to list duplicate packages in two apt-get mirrors?
01:08<cwood>You could download both Packages.gz files and parse them yourself?
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01:11<zarchne>sort | comm
01:11<ptr>Hmm. Is there any way to cause aptitude to revert to the state it was in before a whole lot of proposed changes? IE, to drop all existing proposed changes?
01:12<sander>I can atleast list all packages in the current mirrors with dpkg -L .. But it dosnt work to just have an unofficial mirror in the apt list
01:13<zarchne>dpkg -L lists package contents, not packages?
01:13<dpkg>No packages found matching lists package contents, not packages
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01:13*zarchne hits his forehead.
01:13<sander>its dpkg -l I mean
01:15<sander>cwood, do you know where the Packages.gz is located.. when I use deb lenny main
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01:16<zarchne>sander: probably best for you to explore yourself.
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01:17<sander>zarchne, ok. thanks
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01:28<Slydder>morning all
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01:36<Slydder>anyone know of a really good server benchmarking software I can use to test a cluster? the 2 packages that I have found are crap. the one would be great but after installiing i get nothing but a segfault upon execution. the other is just not very flexible. any ideas?
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01:40<Schreck>Using DNS names instead of IP addresses in iptable is possible ?
01:41<cwood>Possible, but could be undesirable due to the additional overhead in dns lookups, and the fact that you can't control dns information.
01:41<Schreck>Okay cwood thanks. So it's a kind of security issue...
01:42<cwood>security, speed, that sort of thing.
01:42<Schreck>Thanks ! :)
01:42<cwood>Even if you trust a dns server, would you want to add a lookup to your firewall if the lookup took 5 seconds? For instance.
01:43<sander>Now I've removed all packages from any non official mirror.. and mplayer still dosnt work.
01:43<sander>mplayer: error while loading shared libraries: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
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01:46<sander>Cant be possible.. I had an old mplayer laying around in /usr/local/bin !
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01:47<cwood>Time to scrub /usr/local, yeah.
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01:52<Slydder>hmmm. strange. after load testing the cluster a bit it would seem that 1 node in the cluster is getting more traffic than the others. ca. 90% of the traffic goes to 1 server and the others just sit there twiddling thier collective thumbs. any ideas what that could be? it's an LVS-DR cluster btw.
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01:58<jm_>Schreck: it works, but the names are resolved at rule adding/changing time, not when the incoming packets are evaluated against rules, which is what you probably wanted
01:58<Schreck>jm_ Okay thanks :)
01:58<Schreck>Anyone has an Asterisk server ? o_O
01:59<Slydder>we have 4 in house
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02:00<Schreck>Slydder so it's a great house ! :)
02:01<Slydder>well. i do get to play a lot
02:01<Schreck>I'm trying to set up one with a free SIP account from my provider...
02:02<Schreck>The problem is that I can call "one time"...
02:02<Schreck>After that, if I want to call again ==> Link busy
02:02<Schreck>I have to restart Asterisk to be able to call again
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02:05<Slydder>your config is messed up
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02:07<Schreck>Okay... ;) :/
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02:08<Schreck>I've tried to follow several tutorials but each time, date is a little 'old' and conf are a litte different
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02:11<Schreck>May I paste somewhere the config files ?
02:12<dpkg>Please don't paste anything into the channel; use a paste site instead, like:,,, for pics. --- Also ask me: <pastebin pipe>
02:12<Schreck>Sure, just to know if someone would look at it ! ;)
02:13<cwood>I have no idea about Asterisk. My only recommendation is to learn your config options in depth, not just from a tutorial, so you can find your own errors.
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02:14<Schreck>Yes, so you could say...
02:14<Schreck>rtfm ^^
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02:20<Schreck>So ^^ :)
02:21<cwood>Telephony is way out of my league, sorry.
02:22<Schreck>Thanks anyway cwood ! :)
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02:37<Nazcafan>I've been fighting for something like, one hour with ntpdate
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02:38<madmax_>please. i can't use usb device in virtualbox. i set it to use my printer but when guest sys starts usb results not connected
02:39<sep>Nazcafan, it works better if you pet and cuddle it.. your application needs love not a beating
02:39<Nazcafan>I have a strange box where ntdate-debian just does the same answer as ntdpate : no servers can be used, exiting
02:39<Nazcafan>sep: I'll try that
02:39<Nazcafan>sep, do you use ntpdate ?
02:39<sep>no. my machines is on 24/7 so i only use ntpd
02:40<Nazcafan>sep: too bad
02:40<sep>but the few times i'v used it it's stright forward
02:40<jm_>try ntpdate -u
02:40<Nazcafan>sep: on my desktop machine, I installed ntdpate and "voilà" it just synced at every reboot
02:41<sep>just make sure it can reach the net, on the appropriate ports. try giving it a servername on the commandline if you have not configured one
02:41<jm_>did you configure /etc/default/ntpdate ?
02:41<Nazcafan>jm_: no, I let the default config for this file,
02:41<jm_>Nazcafan: well then verify if any server is specified and add -u to options
02:41<Nazcafan>jm_: but it works on my machine, so I don't get why it does not on this other one
02:42<Nazcafan>jm_: if I use ntpdate servername, then it syncs perfectly
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02:43<Nazcafan>jm_: but ntpdate-debian just says that no servers can be used
02:43<jm_>Nazcafan: ok so don't listen to me then
02:43<Nazcafan>jm_: got it, in the last line of the default options, right ?
02:43<jm_>Nazcafan: yes
02:44<Nazcafan>jm_: sorry, I wasn't sure I had properly exposed the problem
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02:44<Nazcafan>jm_: I'll try that as soon as I can get my hands on this other machine
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02:45<jm_>Nazcafan: also pay attention to NTPDATE_USE_NTP_CONF setting
02:45<Nazcafan>jm_: it is on yes, on both machines
02:46<jm_>Nazcafan: in that case you need proper server specified in ntp.conf file
02:46<Nazcafan>jm_: by default, I have the for debian servers :
02:46<jm_>Nazcafan: where?
02:47<Nazcafan> /etc/defaults/ntpdate ?
02:47<jm_>Nazcafan: please read what I told you above
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02:47<Nazcafan>Not used if NTPDATE_USE_NTP_CONF is yes.
02:47<Nazcafan>How could I miss that?
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02:49<Nazcafan>jm_: I would prefer not to install ntp, which seems a little overkill for what I want to do, so I think the best option for me would be to put that setting to "no", right?
02:49<jm_>Nazcafan: yes
02:49<Nazcafan>jm_: one question remains
02:50<Nazcafan>on my Desktop machine, where ntpdate-debian works, I don't have a /etc/ntpd.conf file
02:50<jm_>Nazcafan: I suggest you verify the same file
02:50<Nazcafan>plus NTPDATE_USE_NTP_CONF is on YES
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02:50<Nazcafan>how comes that it works ?
02:51<less>I think the real question is, whu doesn't it work? On the other machine...
02:52<Nazcafan>ok, my bad, I have this file, I was on the wrong terminal and looking on another machine
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02:52<Nazcafan>less: I think it does not work on the other machine because I did not install ntp on the other machine, and the default setting for NTPDATE_USE_NTP_CONF is YES
02:54<Nazcafan>jm_: I also would like to know when ntpdate is called?
02:54<jm_>Nazcafan: you would?
02:54<Nazcafan>jm_: yes,
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02:54<jm_>Nazcafan: dpkg -L ntpdate
02:55<Nazcafan>jm_: I saw ntpdate in if-up.d
02:55<jm_>Nazcafan: right, and in another place
02:57<Nazcafan>jm_: that means that every time dhclient gets a lease, ntpdate-debian should be called, right?
02:59<Nazcafan>jm_: I guess it applies to a lease got through normal ifup command at startup as well as a lease obtained by the network-manager, or am I wrong?
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03:02<jm_>Nazcafan: something like that yes
03:02<Nazcafan>jm_: thank you a lot for your answers, you can not imagined how clueless I have been
03:03<jm_>Nazcafan: no worries
03:04<Nazcafan>jm_: I still do not understand very network manager's policy against interfaces present in /etc/network/interfaces, also, but I have good hopes that I will eventually understand
03:04<Nazcafan>s/very/very well/
03:04<Nazcafan>network-manager is quite new to me
03:04<jm_>I don't use that, sorry
03:04<Nazcafan>jm_: I was more or less expecting that
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03:07<mysuppe>Nazcafan: network-manager in gnome desktop?
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03:08<Nazcafan>Myon: yes, but I gess network-manager is more like a daemon and the thing in gnome Desktop is merly an applet that connects to the daemon
03:08<mysuppe>Nazcafan: I guess so.
03:09<mysuppe>and daemon surely will control /etc/network/interfaces file ,,maybe.
03:09<mysuppe>but I didn't check it out.
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03:10<mysuppe>for me , I use always direct editing /etc/network/interfaces.
03:11<mysuppe>I wish some good guy make some gtk package for whole network controling program. but that's just another dream for the complexity of network settings.
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03:11<mysuppe>including iptables, bridges,....and so on.
03:11<mysuppe>almost impossible right? :)
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03:12<mysuppe>so I used to do that thing with /etc/network/interfaces.
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03:30<Nazcafan>mysuppe: I also usually prefer the interfaces file, but well, using it on laptop with a wifi card is a bit of a pain in the neck
03:31<mysuppe>Nazcafan: right..wifi card setting is not so easy,,pretty much to say not accustomed to me. :)
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03:33<Nazcafan>jm_: because, I don't think the interfaces file was designed to handle a great variety of situations as open network, wep, wpa and all the passwords that may be user-dependent and can change over time
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03:33<Nazcafan>jm_: and in such case, obtaining admin rights just to setup the interface is a bit of an overkill, imho
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03:34<jm_>Nazcafan: yeah, there are other packages that help though
03:34<gsimmons>Nazcafan: You might be interested in 'ifscheme'.
03:34<jm_>or whereami and suchlike
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03:36<Nazcafan>jm_: I'll check on this, however, network manager seems rather a good and easy to use solution, with password storing and easy per user configuration
03:37<mysuppe>Nazcafan: that's definitively right.
03:37<mysuppe>Nazcafan: and don't forget some other cosole-based guys.
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03:38<mysuppe>think about a console based work to share windows file sharing..console based setting needs ..mount -t smb blah blah..
03:39<Nazcafan>mysuppe: maybe a console-client for network-manager could be useful in certain situations
03:39<mysuppe>but for gui's done by one click with gvfs.
03:39<muep_>Nazcafan: I've been looking for a console NM client for some time... :-)
03:39<mysuppe>Nazcafan: now you have points!
03:39<muep_>*haven't yet found one
03:40<Nazcafan>muep_: no, I still did not feel the need that strongly, since until recently I mainly used a Desktop without network manager
03:41<Nazcafan>muep_: now that I have replaced Os X with debian on my macbook, things might change a bit
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03:43<Nazcafan>well, there still is this mistery to solve about network-manager policy on the interfaces file, and then I can sleep again
03:44<Nazcafan>I'll ask the network manager guys
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03:47<muep_>Nazcafan: what policy?
03:47<muep_>that nm ingnores interfaces that are in the interfaces file?
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04:05<Paper>when I disconnect and reconnect a hotpluggable sata drive, it gets a different device name than the original name before disconnect... like it was sdb before and it's now sde... is there a way to rename a device, or tell the system to use the same device name again when the device is reconnected, without rebooting?
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04:06<Paper>if there's a more appropriate channel to ask this, please let me know
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04:08<Nazcafan>muep_: yes
04:09<Nazcafan>I assumed it did that until yesterday
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04:09<Nazcafan>muep_: but now I have a doubt
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04:10<Nazcafan>muep_: I guess I did a mystake in the interface file or something
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04:21<muep_>Nazcafan: as far as I know, NM ignores those in order to allow you to statically configure some interfaces
04:22<Nazcafan>muep_: I thought so too, until I realised I had control over eth0 thourgh network manager, though it figures on my /etc/network/interfaces file
04:22<Nazcafan>muep_: there is something there that I don't understand
04:22<Nazcafan>muep_: There MUST be a typo in my interfaces file or something
04:23<Nazcafan>muep_: unless the "allow-pluggable" line inhibates network-manager usual behaviour?
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04:25<muep_>Nazcafan: I'm not absolutely sure that I know what I am talking about... in addition, all my NM-using computers are currently running Fedora, which has a completely different config system in place of the interfaces file
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04:26<Nazcafan>muep_: I'll do some tests later on, if I can't understand nm's behavious, then, I'll come back here
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04:30<jm_>Paper: there is a way to rename it yes
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04:31<Paper>jm_: can you show me now? I'm trying to find some udev docs, but not having much luck..
04:32<jm_>Paper: read "Writing udev rules"
04:32<dpkg>udev is at or/and Linux 2.6's userspace equivalent of <DevFS>, or dependent upon a kernel >= 2.6.15 in testing and unstable, or if you're having read-only problems with udev, read this for the solution:, or ask me about <z25>, or <udev rules>
04:33<Paper>cool, thanks a lot!
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04:43<Schreck>It's the output of the start script...
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04:44<Schreck>But when I check, no process is running... :/
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04:54<jm_>you need to check if it has a logfile or debug mode
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04:58<Schreck>jm_ : There is a log file in /var/log/asterisk
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04:59<Schreck>For the debug mode, you mean about Asterisk ?
05:00<Schreck>I'll have a look... :)
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05:02<Schreck>With option -d
05:02<Schreck>So I should modifiy the init.d script and see what happends ?
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05:03<jm_>or check if you can specify options in /etc/default
05:05<Schreck>Thanks jm_ this seems to be the better way ! :)
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05:12<Schreck>:/ Only notice or warning
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05:18<frid>hi to all how to burn the remote repository content in dvd?i tried with aptoncd but it is for local packages pnly.
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05:19<jm_>try apt-zip
05:19<dpkg>Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debian-fr sur French users: for help in french, please go to #debian-fr on
05:19<dpkg>it has been said that apt-zip is Update a non-networked computer using apt and removable media, or just apt-get install apt-zip and read the docs in /usr/share/doc/apt-zip
05:20<screenz>thanks bye :à
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05:21<dpkg>from memory, k7 is the generic model name for the series of AMD i386-compatible processors which begins with the "Athlon" and also includes the "Duron", "Thunderbird", "Sempron" and "Athlon XP" processors. It does not include the AMD64, X2, FX, Opteron (k8) family or the older K5 or K6 chips. Just use a 686 kernel in unstable, k7 kernels are out. see <k7 dropped>
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05:23<themill>!apt offline
05:23<dpkg>hmm... apt offline is To use apt on a machine that doesn't have a network connection (if you have a separate machine that does have a network connection), read
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05:26<frid>themill: how to burn the remote repository content in dvd?i tried with aptoncd but it is for local packages only.
05:27<themill>frid: are you trying to update another machine using debs that you have downloaded elsewhere?
05:28<frid>themill:i like to create debian repository on dvd and use where the network is available for installing packages.
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05:29<Fox_1_>hi all
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05:32<Fox_1_>people now I'm working on new Linux (Debian based) distribution. It must be fully translated to Armenian language. who can add new system URL in page?
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05:33<less>Good question, I bet someone here would know the answer.
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05:34<jm_>uhm mail the web admins
05:35<Icee3>which is the patch for apply the wallpaper on ttys?
05:35<less>Yeah, that would be
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05:36<Woet>I would like to setup some basic webserver for my friends, with support for multiple domains and a nice control panel (like DirectAdmin)
05:37<less>It's on the children-distros page under "Problems with Debian infrastructure", Fox_1_.
05:37<Woet>Someone told me I could use VHCS, but do you guys know other packages?
05:38<dpkg>panel is probably the bar full of icons at the bottom of kde/gnome that you use to launch apps
05:38<gsimmons>!free whcp
05:38<dpkg>FOSS Web Hosting Control Panels include: <DTC>, <ISPConfig>, <ispCP Omega> and <RavenCore>. Don't use <Webmin>.
05:38<jm_>heh thanks
05:38<Fox_1_>ok thanks less
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06:09<Gekz>anyone running debian on an m68k?
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06:10<padski>Gekz, are you ?
06:10<Gekz>no, but want to
06:10<Gekz>a lot of the documentation is gone
06:10<Gekz>so I need someone who exists
06:10<jm_>the answer to your documentation is clearly no
06:11<jm_>question too
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06:14<Gekz>jm_: no
06:14<Gekz>there is 10 recorded users of m86k last year!
06:14<jm_>which means it's not "anyone" running it
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06:16<Gekz>jm_: silence.
06:16<Gekz>be constructive lol
06:16<jm_>Gekz: I tried it for 2h or somesuch on a next once
06:17<jm_>some DD is blogging about it now and then
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06:17<padski>does qemu do m68k ?
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06:20<padski>or it looks like you could run one on a fpga
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06:21<Gekz>I want to run it on my Amiga 500 >_
06:21<padski>Gekz, they didn't have much RAM did they ?
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06:21<Gekz>padski: this one has 5MB
06:22<padski>Gekz, that's plenty :-)
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06:22<Gekz>to boot a kernel perhaps
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06:26<matthewpoer>How do I create newlines (\n) in a bash script? echo "test\ntest\n" works from command line but not in .sh script
06:28<padski>matthewpoer, echo -e
06:28<jm_>echo -e 'test\n'
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06:29<padski>matthewpoer, which shell is that, dash ?
06:30<matthewpoer>So how can I keep those \n working in a string, and later echo the string and expect it to still use them?
06:30<jm_>the same deal
06:31<matthewpoer>But it doesn't work :/
06:31<matthewpoer> totalstring=`echo -e "Title: $titlestring \nAltText: $imgtitletextstring \nSubject: $subjectstring"`
06:31<matthewpoer> echo -e $totalstring
06:31<padski>-E seems to be the default in my bash
06:31<matthewpoer>(two lines isn't over-pasting, right?)
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06:32<jm_>uhm why the hell are you using `` for this?
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06:32<matthewpoer>the echo is just to make sure it works, I am going to use the string to put in an image later via convert
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06:33<matthewpoer>oh, you mean...
06:33<jm_>`` is probably chewing it for you
06:33<matthewpoer>yeah, it was. thanks.
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06:33<matthewpoer>I've been using that the whole script, I guess I forgot that I can use strings without echoing them into the variable
06:34<jm_>indeed, you also avoid expensive forks that way
06:34<matthewpoer>Oh, I didn't realize that?
06:35<matthewpoer>Do I need to kill the processes, or will they die when they finish?
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06:35<jm_>naah, shell handles it
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06:37<jm_>would probably end up simpler using perl's imagemagick interface
06:37<matthewpoer>Good, I have an embarassing amount of echo | grep | grep | grep stuff in there because I am too lazy to awk or sed for things. Luckily it is still a small and quick script.
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06:37<matthewpoer>lmao - probably. But then I'd have to learn Perl. And I haven't written any shell scripts in a while
06:37<matthewpoer>So I was looking for a reason to write one
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06:41<adii>is there a way to automatize dual screen configuration for xorg.conf ? (as "dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg" does it with one screen config ?
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06:44<tj_><------- rolls outta bed, feet on floor, tried to keep eyes open......
06:44<adii>damn it's midday what have you been doing
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06:44<tj_>6:44am here
06:45<adii>oh yea you're not on the good part of earth ;)
06:45<tj_>well, depends on whats good about it i guess
06:45<matthewpoer>tj_ 6:44 here too, and I've been up for a while
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06:45<adii>clubbers ftw
06:46<tj_>listen this was buggin me last night before i passed out.... Gkerellm only displays one CPU chart.. is this a system issue or a Gkerellm issue?
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06:46<jm_>tj_: could also be pebkac
06:46<matthewpoer>probably gkerellm
06:46<jm_>wfm in gkrellm
06:47<matthewpoer>version check, jm_ and tj_
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06:47<matthewpoer>tj_ all CPUs should have info if you cat /proc/cpuinfo
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06:48<amphi>tj_: one cpu chart on a dual core?
06:48<tj_>debian 2.6.18-6-486 and gkrellm 2.3.1 i think
06:48<tj_>yes dualcore... AMD turion X2
06:49<amphi>tj_: gkrellm shows two cpu charts on a c2d here, without doing anything special
06:49<amphi>testing, BTW
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06:49<gsimmons>tj_: The -486 kernel images are not SMP enabled.
06:50<tj_>ah ha
06:50<matthewpoer>1 point for gsimmons
06:50<tj_>that would explain why the amd 64 distro worked
06:50<tj_>is it a mess to get smp enabled?
06:51<matthewpoer>it explains <em>everything</em>
06:51<jm_>so it was pebkac
06:51<amphi>why did you install -486?
06:51<tj_>i needed to make use of alot of webcontent that just didnt work well with 32-bit
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06:51<tj_>and make use of some non-free software
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06:52<tj_>and i tried the 64 first and as a newbie. it was a bit much to jump into
06:53<amphi>tj_: -686 is 32 bit smp enabled
06:54<tj_>you know.. i think its the amd that stuck me with 486.. my bro used the same disc as i did and he ended up with 686 but he is intel
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06:55<matthewpoer>So how do I get my newlines from $string into "convert caption:$string file.png" on ImageMagick 6.2.4 (etch)?
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06:55<tj_>i freaked when i saw the diff kernel ver too...
06:56<amphi>tj_: if that doesn't work, there will be amd-specific 32bit smp kernels
06:56<tj_>ok, thanx for the advice... i'll look into that... time to get dressed for work... see ya later.
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07:08<Ildottore> Salve O ¤ « #debian » ¤ -={®} |[ R3L04D3D.ScRiPt ]| {®}=-
07:09<Ildottore> A presto ¤« #debian »¤ -={®} |[ R3L04D3D.ScRiPt ]| {®}=- By Il CoNtE
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07:27<fantonio_br>Bope vai pegar vocês!
07:28<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
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07:28<St0nedbr>hello All!
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07:31<fantonio_br>hi list
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07:33<fantonio_br>I need a software version of the control frontend
07:33<fantonio_br>Who know?
07:34<jm_>pretty much any versioning control has GUI front-ends
07:34<jm_>except maybe rcs
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07:36<fantonio_br>Most need a junction with the svn
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07:37<jm_>esvn - frontend for the Subversion revision system written in Qt
07:38<St0nedbr>jm_: esvn is like a sourceforge + svn ?
07:38<jm_>St0nedbr: it's a front-end for svn
07:38<St0nedbr>jm_: i think fantonio_br wants a Control version system integrated with other software like SourceForge understand?
07:38<jm_>St0nedbr: what do you mean?
07:38<sailaway85>Weird problem... any divx converter crashes system when 3d graphic are on and running firefox ... is this a memory leek? ati graphics
07:40<St0nedbr>jm_: i think he wants a software like GeForge....
07:40<sailaway85>leek = leak
07:40<fantonio_br>jm_, i to need and software like
07:41<St0nedbr>jm_: cuz Svn is to control software versions, and Sourceforge is to put the projects in web for all download or upload, so i think he wants one software that do all works togheter, understand?
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07:41<jm_>ahh web front-end?
07:42-!-mode/#debian [+l 355] by debhelper
07:42<jm_>fantonio_br: websvn
07:42<fantonio_br>jm_, not is collaboa
07:43<jm_>fantonio_br: trac then?
07:43<St0nedbr>jm_: like if a project have a package, it go to "sourceforge" automatically.....
07:44<jm_>St0nedbr: you need to register it on for that to work
07:45<St0nedbr>jm_: so fantonio_br wants a software that control versions and when it have a package automatically in just ONE software, understand
07:45<St0nedbr>jm_: i don't know if exists, i think Geforge is like that, Do u know Geforge???
07:46<fantonio_br>jm_: Because the project made available for distribution online him, not only for developers who use iram but for anyone who wants the software.
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07:47<jm_>St0nedbr: nope
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07:56<evilmanu>is possible with a virtualization of PC (like virtualbox) install Leopard?
07:56<padski>evilmanu, yes
07:57<evilmanu>I've tried with virtuLBOX
07:57<dpkg>Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic (i.e., Debian support), or return to the topic after a short while. #debian-offtopic is the place for longer off-topic discussions.
07:57<evilmanu>but cannot
07:58<evilmanu>it gave me an error
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07:58<padski>evilmanu, go and google brazilmac vmware. this is off-topic here.
07:58<evilmanu>like a cpu error and must restart the virtual pc
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08:12<sylock>I have a problem with specials chars like é or è with widows files and aMule files. After a web search I understood windows is coding with ISO-8859-15 but gnome (and nautilus) is by default in UTF-8. So I did a # dpkg-reconfigure locales to chek ISO-8859-15 as the default. Now I don't have any problem yet with windows and mule files but with files (with special chars) created with nautilus. So my question is : is it possible to tell N
08:12<sylock>autilus to code their files in ISO-8859-15(latin-9) ?
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08:20<jm_>sylock: what is your default locale set to?
08:20<sylock>I set it on ISO-8859-15
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08:20<jm_>run locale -a
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08:20<sylock>instead of UTF-8
08:20<jm_>uhm just locale
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08:23<sylock_>do you receive my locale config ?
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08:23<azeem>only parts of it, please put it on a pastebin
08:23<dpkg>Please don't paste anything into the channel; use a paste site instead, like:,,, for pics. --- Also ask me: <pastebin pipe>
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08:24<Woet>'uptime' says a load average of 4.0, while 'ps faux' says around 0.4 or 0.5
08:24<Woet>how is that possible?
08:24<azeem>where does ps faux tell the load average?
08:25<Woet>err, im just adding the CPU load up
08:25<Woet>im trying to find the cause of a load of 4.0 :-/
08:25<jm_>it's not nearly the same thing
08:25<jm_>I/O is the cause
08:25<Woet>as in?
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08:25<jm_>do you know what I/O means?
08:26<Woet>Input Output
08:26<jm_>right - find out what's doing IO
08:26<sylock_>how can I do a pastebin ? And how will you see it ?
08:27<jm_>block_dump or blktrace
08:27<Woet>sylock_ -> just go to
08:27<Woet>and then give us the URL
08:27<jm_>sylock_: also include 'locale charmap' output
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08:28<sylock_>ok I found :
08:29<sylock_>and locale charmap give ISO-8859-15 like I told you.
08:30<jm_>sylock_: ok then you need to check how your filesystem is mounted
08:30<Woet>jm_: how do I block_dump ?
08:31<jm_>Woet: in short, stop syslog, enable dump, find info, disable dump,start syslog
08:31<Woet>kjournald(1052): WRITE block 259056 on md2
08:31<Woet>kjournald(1052): WRITE block 259064 on md2
08:31<Woet>seems to use a lot
08:32<sylock_>Where do I need to check that? (i'm a newbs in the linux world ;) Is it not something like fstab ?
08:32<jm_>kjournald can be affected using commit interval IIRC
08:32<jm_>sylock_: mount will show you current options used, and lsmod which NLS modules are loaded
08:34<jm_>sylock_: does it work properly if you use shell?
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08:35<sylock_>in fact, when I create a file with special chars with nautilus, consol give me wrong file names. If i change in the console into UTF-8 it works.
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08:36<sylock_>so I let my consol in ISO-8859-15 and created directory and files in the console.
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08:36<sylock_>like that, it is ok in the consol and in nautilus
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08:36<jm_>sylock_: hmm that almost sounds like a bug in nautilus
08:37<sylock_>:( ok. I will do a report.
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08:38<sylock_>thx for your help
08:38<jm_>better check BTS first and try it with some other tools
08:38<sylock_>what's BTS ?
08:38<Woet>do you see something unusual?
08:38<jm_>!tell sylock_ -about bts
08:38<jm_>Woet: do you have any network mounts?
08:40<sylock_>I had this problem with a usb key that comes from windows
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08:40<jm_>there's nothing really spectacular there - check ps output and pay attention to processes not sleeping
08:40<sylock_>and some other files i transfered from a windows
08:40<jm_>yeah you can specify codepage/iocharset for fat/ntfs mounts
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08:41<jm_>maybe it "detects" it's utf-8 and keeps using it
08:41<hever>As I can see it there is no openJDK for debian available and I must build it myself ?
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08:42<sylock_>I don't have any windows partition on my disk. Files come from usb key
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08:42<Woet>jm_: the load average is fine now
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08:42<Woet>but it peeks to 4.6 at certain times
08:43<jm_>Woet: yeah that's when you need to catch it
08:43<jm_>sylock_: yes, so it mattered when you *copied* it
08:43<sylock_>but I have to say you that since I set locale in ISO-8859-15 i don't have this problem anymore with windows files
08:43<Woet>yea, thats kinda difficult :+
08:43<jm_>which is when mount options get into play
08:43<sylock_>only with files created with nautilus
08:43<jm_>sylock_: did you logout and login since changing default locale?
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08:44<sylock_>that's why I think Nautilus is keeping UTF-8 instead of ISO-8859-15 I set on locale
08:44<sylock_>yes I did
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08:44<jm_>yeah it sure sounds that way
08:44<craigevil>hever: there is free-java-jdk,icepick and if your on 64bit Icedtea
08:45<hever>craigevil, actually I'm using gij but eclipse doen't run very well and eclipse europa doesn't work...
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08:46<sylock_>Well. don't you know a Nautilus config file where I could change that ?
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08:47<hever>It ready in ubuntu... perhaps I can use this packages ? (More and more I don't know why I should use the good OLD Debian instead of the better supported ubuntu)
08:48<azeem>hever: which package?
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08:48<hever>azeem, openjdk-6-jdk
08:48<jm_>naah, I don't use gnome or nautilus
08:49<hever>When will openJDK be available under debian testing main ?
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08:49<azeem>hever: when it's ready
08:50<azeem>hever: it's still not fully open sourced AFAIK
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08:52<azeem>craigevil: what do you mean with Icedtea on 64bit? AFAICT, it's not in Debian?
08:52<craigevil>no its not in debian repos, but there are ,deb packages floating around
08:53<craigevil> < is maintained by one of the sidux devs
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09:17<blorb>hi all
09:17<blorb>what is the recommended bittorrent for a remote debian server?
09:18-!-morsa [] has joined #debian
09:18<blorb>(it's only console, not X)
09:18<sep>blorb, recommended by whom ? :)
09:18<blorb>for me :)
09:18<morsa>i don't know how use bitlbee
09:18<morsa>you know?
09:19<blorb>the new version of mce is only downloadeble via torrent
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09:20<blorb>sep: what do YOU recommend?
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09:20<sep>perhaps rtorrent..
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09:21<sep>well I reccoment wget .. but :)
09:21<blorb>? rtorrent - ncurses BitTorrent client based on LibTorrent
09:21<morsa>wget for whta?
09:21<jm_>for porn of course
09:21<morsa>mmm sure
09:21<morsa>i need help
09:21<morsa>i am a beginner in linux
09:22<morsa>i am trying to configure bitlbee
09:22<morsa>somebody know this ?
09:22<blorb>sep: never mind
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09:22<blorb>i just checked the site again
09:22<morsa>mm ok
09:23<morsa>where you from?
09:23<blorb>they uploaded the dvd-iso to some world-sites :)
09:23<blorb>but thanks a lot!
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09:24<morsa>ok thanks bye
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09:27<Exodus>hi, does anyone here knows how to mount iso image as read/write so I can add extra files to it. I know there is a way and I did it, but I forgot where I found how :/
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09:29<petemc>Exodus: you need to remake the cd mkisofs
09:29<petemc>and copy the files somewhere else to edit them, as it will be ro
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09:30<Exodus>tnx petemc
09:31<HaMMiE>marcho chao
09:31<HaMMiE>good bye
09:31<HaMMiE>i have to go
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09:52<white_hat>hello zobel
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09:55<fantonio_br>hello list
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10:06<homer>does any one know and can recommand a good virtualization software for debian, on which i can install
10:07<homer>other OS and run them
10:08<homer>of type vmware for windows
10:08<muep_>homer: virtualbox-ose is quite easy
10:08<muep_>though it's not in stable
10:08<muep_>(I think)
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10:09<Shiny>I need some assitance with my WAN connection
10:09<Shiny>why is it that when someone from WAN pings my IP
10:09<Shiny>it times out
10:09<Shiny>is there a way to fix this?
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10:10<witte>homer: vmware exists for linux as well, and there are others i believe (i think xen is also a kind of virtualization thing)
10:10<dpkg>Xen is an open source virtual machine monitor, developed by the University of Cambridge. Intended to run up to 100 full featured OSs on a single computer. OSs must be explicitly modified ("ported") to run on Xen (although compatibility is maintained for user applications). This enables Xen to achieve high performance virtualization without special hardware support. #debian-xen on, or
10:10<dpkg>VMware isn't part of Debian, therefore it's not supported. Ask me about <vmware support> and <vmware-package>.
10:11<witte>Shiny: because your router drops those packages?
10:11<witte>Shiny: is there a firewall installed on that wan interface?
10:11<Shiny>Hello Shiny, is there a possible solution for this
10:11<Shiny>I highly doubt it
10:11<homer>muep_, thanks, i tried it but for some reason when i tried to run it it said i am missing some things but couldnt install them
10:12<Shiny>when I had windows I didn't have this issue
10:12<homer>thanks every one I will try them
10:12<Shiny>so I don't think so
10:13<witte>Shiny: what do you call WAN?
10:13<Shiny>wide area network
10:13<Shiny>may I PM you Witte
10:13<Shiny>for IP puposes
10:13<witte>ok, so there is a box between the internet and your local network
10:13<dpkg>rumour has it, pm is private message, or post meridiem, or prime minister, or perl mongers, or pathetic moron: when you see someone say pm, they're asking if you think that they're a pathetic moron, or something you don't do without asking permission, or provocative {preventative} maintenance, or percussive maintenance
10:14<witte>Shiny: ok, that message is a bit over the edge
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10:14<homer>i think something has fucked up my repository
10:14<witte>Shiny: you can just post here, no need for pm...
10:14<Shiny>I just want you to ping my IP
10:14<witte>ok, pm it to me
10:15<homer>i tried installing the xen got a wierd message saying Package xen is not available, but is referred to by another package.
10:15<homer>This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
10:15<homer>is only available from another source
10:15<homer>However the following packages replace it:
10:15<homer> xen-utils-common
10:15-!-homer was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
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10:16<Shiny>that's my IP with
10:16<witte>Shiny: ok, i can't ping to that indeed
10:16<homer>any one have any ideas what can i do
10:16<Shiny>excatly Witte, possible solutions? I really need people to be able to "connect" to my server
10:16<Shiny>or else it's not a server? =P
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10:17<witte>but, it all depends on how the actual network config is: It could be that that is the IP of your ISP
10:17<witte>Shiny: do you have a router?
10:17<Shiny>yes I do
10:18<homer>is xen in repository?
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10:18<Shiny>and I highly doubt this is the ISPs IP because this IP constantly changes after a reboot
10:18<Shiny>for example I have a different IP after my next reboot
10:19<witte>Shiny: it is that machine that will have this IP, you need to configure that, to forward connections to your box
10:19<witte>Shiny: you probably also don't want to have every port opened... Do people really have to ping you, or only access it through SSH, only apache...
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10:19<witte>Shiny: configure your router ;-)
10:19<Shiny>I need 3 ports open
10:19<witte>!tell homer about search
10:19<Shiny>Witte: the router has these ports opend
10:19<witte>Shiny: ok, but does it forward those to your machine?
10:19<witte>Shiny: and which ports are those?
10:19<Shiny>hang on
10:20<Shiny>6900, 6121, 5121
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10:22<witte>Shiny: if you block ping signals, it is normal that I cant get in return
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10:22<Shiny>I need to unlock these via router configuration or can it be done through debian
10:22<witte>Shiny: i am not such a network specialist, but i tried "nc $YOUR_IP 6900"
10:23<Shiny>and the result was? negative im assuming
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10:24<witte>yeah, negative
10:24<Shiny>please try and ping once more
10:24<homer>witte, we can search on everything even the thing you currently help shiny with yet you still choose to help him
10:24<witte>Shiny: works
10:25<Shiny>thank you
10:25<homer>witte, also i have tried to find info about the problems i get
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10:25<witte>homer: apt-cache search xen
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10:26<witte>homer: i don't use xen, never did, and the info i gave was go to the wiki( and if you can't find the package, you need to search for it. That is the same as i have to do...
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10:28<homer>oh ok
10:28<homer>my problem are a bit different
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10:29<petemc>homer: your question doesnt indicate that
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10:30<homer>i tried to install virtualbox, it installd but when trying to run it, it sais i am missing something and how to fix
10:30<homer>seared a bit on the net and nothing that helps was found
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10:30<homer>after installing xen got some other installation issues
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10:31<homer>i think something might be wrong or dirty with my repository,
10:31<petemc>i would hazard a guess the problem is localized to your machine
10:32<homer>yeh that's what i meant, new to debian and debian terms :)
10:32<homer>something with mypackage manager is "broken"
10:32<petemc>you're using etch?
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10:33<petemc>etch has everything you need to run xen
10:33-!-Ryu is now known as smahg
10:33<homer>but when i type which xen or whereis xen
10:33<homer>i get nothing in return
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10:34<petemc>are you trying to guess how to configure and use xen?
10:34<homer>also xen doesn't run anything
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10:34<homer>I am not sure, if xen is already builtin to etch then yep
10:34<petemc>its not, you need to install and configure it#]
10:34<petemc>you've got some reading to do
10:35<homer>how? from where? is it in repo?
10:35<homer>where can i read?
10:35<petemc> would be a good starting point
10:35<homer>did't find anything explenatory
10:35<witte>dpkg no, Xen is an open source virtual machine monitor, developed by the University of Cambridge. Intended to run up to 100 full featured OSs on a single computer. OSs must be explicitly modified ("ported") to run on Xen (although compatibility is maintained for user applications). This enables Xen to achieve high performance virtualization without special hardware support. #debian-xen on, or http://
10:35<dpkg>okay, witte
10:35<petemc>seems you need to work on your searching skills too
10:35<homer>comeon, what am i looking for, i already seared for info
10:35<dpkg>[xen] an open source virtual machine monitor, developed by the University of Cambridge. Intended to run up to 100 full featured OSs on a single computer. OSs must be explicitly modified ("ported") to run on Xen (although compatibility is maintained for user applications). This enables Xen to achieve high performance virtualization without special hardware support. #debian-xen on, or http://
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10:36<witte>petemc: do you know how dpkg can take longer factoids?
10:36<themill>witte: you can't.
10:36<witte>petemc: i already made it shorter than it was
10:36<petemc>dont know much about the bot, sorry
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10:37<themill>witte: what do you want it to say? I'll give you a hand with it.
10:37<homer>OK i guess you are not into helping you prefer insulting.
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10:37<witte>themill: also no idea? i know there is a way to change the factoid by replacing terms
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10:38<witte>themill: ah, i just wanted it to list at the end (it was before)
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10:39<witte>dpkg: s!http://!! xen
10:40<witte>mmm, that wasn't it, but it was something like that :-)
10:41<themill>witte: often editing the factoid down a bit is called for too.
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10:42<witte>themill: you mean shortening it?
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10:42<petemc>that factoid seems a bit wordy anyways
10:42<petemc>like something a marketing dept would produce
10:43<themill>yeah, shortening things and removing extraneous words, spaces ", or" added by the use of "also" etc.
10:43<themill>dpkg, no xen is an open source virtual machine monitor, intended to run up to 100 full featured OSs on a single computer. OSs must be explicitly modified ("ported") to run on Xen (although compatibility is maintained for user applications). Xen achieve high performance virtualisation without special hardware support. For detailed help, ask in #debian-xen on or see
10:43<dpkg>okay, themill
10:43<witte>themill, petemc: well, I did not make it, and I do not know a lot about it, so i did not want to do to much it to ruin it. Just replacing the faulty url.
10:43<witte>themill: perfect :-)
10:44<themill>witte: yeah, I don't know much about Xen either, but I spend a lot of time editing technical documents :)
10:44<witte>who cares about cambridge anyhow
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10:45<themill>Not me, I'm at "another" ... :) But you're right, it's not relevant to the factoid.
10:45<themill>dpkg: xen =~ s/achieve/achieves/
10:45<dpkg>themill: OK
10:45<smahg>Hi -:)
10:46<witte>aha, that is how you change the factoids inline, have to note that down somewhere :-)
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10:46<smahg>does anybody has a few minutes to spend for a new user of linux ?
10:47<themill>witte: yes. For URLs and file paths, you can use # as the delimiter rather than / otherwise, it's rather perl-esque (but not completely).
10:48<witte>yeah, i used "!", but not the " =~" in the beginning...
10:48<witte>smahg: you can ask your question, and if someone thinks he can help you, you will get an answer...
10:49<themill>witte: I don't think dpkg accepts ! as a delimiter. As I said, not totally perl compatible. It's also fussy about spacing around the "factoid =~ s/" part.
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10:50<smahg>ok :-) Im trying my first intall of Etch with an amd64. It seems I lack a driver because the "installer" does no detect the hard disk (samsung hd321kj). I tried to find it on the internet but I did not manage. Any tip for me ?
10:51<witte>smahg: do you have a brand new computer.
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10:53<Woet>how do you update your kernel?
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10:53<witte>smahg: I ask because if this is the case (especially if it is a laptop), it could be that your motherboard is not fully supported by the already 1 year old etch kernel. But there are installation disks with newer kernels... (if your pc is rather old, this probably would not make a difference...)
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10:54<witte>Woet: aptitude install linux-image-<whatever>
10:54<witte>Woet: <whatever> you can find using apt-cache search linux-image
10:55<Woet>and then, after that, I can reboot in a few hours?
10:55<Woet>witte: im not sure which one I need
10:55<Woet>I want the latest
10:55<azeem>then just apt-get upgrade
10:55<azeem>should get you the latest
10:56<Woet>The following packages have been kept back:
10:56<Woet> linux-image-2.6-686
10:56<azeem>so apt-get install linux-image-2.6-686
10:56<Woet>and, does it reboot by itself?
10:56<Woet>or do I need to do so later?
10:56<smahg>witte, nope. It runs properly with a sarge (if I recall -it was install by my former boyfriend) but it's toot unstalble -and I only changes the hard disk, the motherboard and so have remain the same.
10:57<witte>Woet: depends on which you install. If you install an upgrade to a kernel that is already running, it is advised to reboot immediately. If you install a kernel with a higher number, it would be no problem.
10:57<azeem>Woet: the latter
10:57<Woet>ah, thanks :)
10:57<Woet>I will reboot tonight then
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10:58<Woet>also, when software give me links to my own server, it says something such as: Webmin install complete. You can now login to https://WTQ002:10000/
10:58<Woet>how do I change the 'WTQ002'?
10:58<witte>smahg: in that case i don't know. Hard disks should normally work?
10:59<witte>smahg: the disks are found by the bios?
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10:59<witte>!tell Woet about webmin
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11:02<Woet>that was so totally not my question
11:02<smahg>witte, yes it is. The problem is that when I launch the installer it ask me to choose in a driver list because it can't operate it. And I can't find which driver it needs (and besindes, I not sure it actually is on this list)
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11:03<witte>Woet: i know
11:03<Woet>and webmin is the best tool I ever had.
11:03<themill>Woet: none of us use webmin (read what dpkg just told you again). How would we know about how it makes up your hostname? It might read /etc/hostname (/msg dpkg hostname) but it might be in a config file of its own somewhere.
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11:03<Woet>the webmin thing was just an example.
11:03<smahg>witte, my installation version is quite "short" (1dvd) and I can't connect to internet at home.
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11:04<witte>smahg: it is only the kernel that would determine if it is supported or not, the rest is not related. 1 dvd should be more than enough :-)
11:05<witte>smahg: you did connect the hard drives correctly, and it did work before in this configuration?
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11:08<smahg>witte, The drive is correctly connected and recognised by the bios.
11:08<smahg>witte, I can't tell if it worked before because it's brandnew.
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11:09<witte>smahg: can you have a look in ctrl-alt-F4 for any error messages or information on your system that might be relevant?
11:09<witte>smahg: i am aware that my last question is quite vague :-)
11:10<smahg>witte, no the question is ok.
11:10<smahg>witte, but I'm in a cybercafé rignt now, so...
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11:11<witte>smahg: ah, ok, that might be not so convenient
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11:11<smahg>witte, I think it's best if I take notes of the message I get and come back an other day...
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11:12<witte>smahg: you could try a netinstall with a newer kernel, and afterwards upgrade from the dvd (but that would require some not so trivial toying with a very base debian..)
11:12<witte>smahg: you don't have internet at your home right?
11:13<dpkg>For etch (or sarge) with up-to-date kernels, see
11:13<smahg>not yet -I'll have it when I hav installe etch (well, I hope...)
11:13<witte>otherwise, try the link above, it may be helpful to try a new kernel...
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11:15<smahg>witte, ok I'll try with a newer kernel. Just in case : any link to find free drivers if needed ?
11:15<azeem>or try the etchnahalf kernels
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11:20<sun>hi how to open a .docx file from word under linux?
11:20<adii_>I've got lenny x86 and it looks like flash plugin won't install on iceweasel.. is there some tutorial on that ?
11:20<hypnotic>doesnt work for me either, I use an old package
11:21<hypnotic>found it at the debian multimedia repo site
11:21<witte>smahg: as I said, hard disks should be supported any time. I have no idea why it is not working (not that i am a reference or anything, but still)
11:21<adii_>:( okay i'll look that way then
11:21<witte>sun: using openoffice did not work?
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11:22<hypnotic>second post
11:22<phillipsjk>I Think my video driver has an "off by 1" error, but I am not sure how to reliably reproduce it.
11:22<witte>!adobe flash
11:22<dpkg>Adobe Flash Player is a non-free Flash player and can be installed with flashplugin-nonfree. This package was removed from Etch and will not be included in future stable releases (see; use the one from (ask me about <non-free> and <bpo>). If you are using a 64-bit browser, ask me about <nspluginwrapper>. For more details, see
11:22*adii_ reading
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11:23<sun>witte i was trying abiword... should i install openoffice 1 or 2?
11:24<witte>sun: the latest version you have available in the repositories...
11:24<hypnotic>is gnash already fully compatible with adobe flash then?
11:24<witte>hypnotic: no, but they are trying
11:24<hypnotic>last time i checked I couldnt watch youtube
11:25<hypnotic>flash is a nasty virus
11:25<dpkg>well, gnash is a GNU project to create a free software Flash player. Its developers plan on writing a stand-alone player and a browser plugin. Writing a free software Flash-player has been a priority of the GNU project for some time. See for more information.
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11:26<phillipsjk>Yes but why the fsck would a streaming video format run executable code? /rant
11:27<Woet>fuck *
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11:27<mysupper>hello guys
11:27<janrocks>hello mysupper
11:28<adii_>mysupper is happy now ;)
11:28<adii_>hello !! :)
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11:30<smahg>witte, thanks for your help :-)
11:31<witte>you're welcome
11:31<phillipsjk>sun Maybe try antiword?
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12:14<ozdeb>hello, I installed fluxbox from source and i don't know how to start it. there is no entry in GDM, can some1 help ?
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12:17<furz>ich muss immer pupsen :-)
12:17<fxiny>ozdeb: etch ?
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12:18<ozdeb>fxiny, testing, I'm trying to solve out a possible bug
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12:19<ozdeb>fxiny, should I try copying the Xsession file from the deb ?
12:19<ozdeb>fxiny, BRB
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12:20<ozdeb>fxiny, I tried it didn't work
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12:21<fxiny>ozdeb: can't boot into my gnome box atm . i'm using bpo flux on etch
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12:22<ozdeb>hmm... do you have all the gnome files ok ?
12:22<fxiny>i had a go with compiling it on a kde box
12:22<ozdeb>fxiny, and how do I start fluxbox ?
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12:24<fxiny>ozdeb: search for "add fluxbox to my GDM"
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12:24<fxiny>ozdeb: yours should be in /usr/local
12:25<fxiny>ozdeb: what's wrong with testing flux ?
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12:26<witte>ozdeb: did you build from upstreams source, or from the debian source
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12:26<ozdeb>I've built from git source I've reportet this bug,
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12:27<ozdeb>witte, Bug#477154: Fluxbox displays window title in Arabic and Hebrew in a wrong way
12:27<fxiny>ozdeb: ok
12:27<ozdeb>I am replying to an email from the maintainer he asked me to check the upstream so I'm doing it
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12:29<ozdeb>fxiny, there is no folder calles Session under /etc/gdm
12:29<ozdeb>fxiny, should I create one ?
12:29<witte>ozdeb: did you do the things that the maintainer asked you, or are you trying to do something new after what was written in his response?
12:29<ozdeb>witte, I'm doing what he asked me
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12:31<latitude>hi, folks
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12:31<ozdeb>witte, fxiny, BRB checking gdm
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12:32<fxiny>ozdeb: can't remember where gdm stuff is , and no way i'll stop R.Smith playing somewhere in Germany to reboot into gnome ;)
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12:35<sasha>Hello all
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12:36<ozdeb>witte, fxiny I couldn't find fluxbox in my gdm
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12:38<fxiny>witte: you not busy like me bros ? you don't want me to stop mplayering and reboot into gnome . don't you ?:)
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12:39<fxiny>ozdeb: gimme a minute or two
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12:45<sasha>Hello everyone, I am Russian, it is interesting to many people abroad using Linux in USA?
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12:46<ozdeb_>witte: I'm using irssi now
12:46<ozdeb_>witte: I can't get fluxbox to work
12:47<Skrat>ozdeb_; Why use fluxbox?
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12:47<sasha><ozdeb_> you using console ?
12:47<fxiny>ozdeb_: i'm on gnome
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12:49<ozdeb_>fxiny: thanks for your help
12:49<sasha>Here, someone is developing robotics ?
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12:57<sun>witte oowriter opened docx thanks!
12:57<fxiny>ozdeb_: /usr/share/xsessions
12:58<fxiny>f* buried deep :P
12:58<themill>sun: what? who? how?
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13:01<sasha>Why on this channel all silent?
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13:02<Skrat>sasha; until there is a conversation, it's quiet. :P
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13:02<phillipsjk>sasha: some of us are *supposed* to be doing other things...
13:03<phillipsjk>For example, I don't play with robortics because I have so many other things I want to do already.
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13:06<sasha>phillipsjk What are you interested ? if isn`t sicret
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13:07<fxiny>i feel so sick after this gdm/fluxbox thing , i need to go back to my Cure ;)
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13:13<sasha>What is normal Debian program through which you can feature drawings
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13:14<valdyn>sasha: gimp
13:14<phillipsjk>sasha a little off-topic. Essentially I am learning that not every half-baked idea I have is necesarily a good one. Fro the projects I actually do think are worthwhile, I would need to work with other poeple to finish them all.
13:15<sasha><valdyn> Constructors Drawing
13:15<phillipsjk>sasha: xfig does simple vector drawings.
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13:20<phillipsjk>sasha what you want is a "Computer Aided Drawing" (CAD) program. "apt-cache search CAD" does bring up some false positives though.
13:21<apostols_>bzed, ping
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13:21*phillipsjk needs to learn regular expressions
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13:22<sasha><phillipsjk> I have found that, like sorry
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13:25<sasha>Yes, i need to take a textbook on English and hard to teach. My knowledge is not yet enough to understand all - it`s bed :((
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13:28<sasha>Soon Passover, You celebrate Passover?
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13:29<sun> /quit
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13:30<phillipsjk>sasha not really. Sometimes as part of easter celebrations.
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13:33<sasha>We always celebrate, even output
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13:35<sasha>phillipsjk you are programmer ?
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13:37<phillipsjk>Depends. Did I have to write any code in the last 2 years to call myself a programmer?
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13:40<sasha>I think yes, if not forgotten language! So I unwritten almost 0.5 years in C + + and C and then sat down and all remembered
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13:43<phillipsjk>The project I did (for school) was written in assembly for the 68HC11
13:43<sasha>We have a night soon
13:43*Skrat bows to phillipsjk for knowing Assembly
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13:43<witte>fxiny: sorry, did not see your post about you being busy, real live interrupted :-)
13:44*phillipsjk doesn't know x86 assembly yet
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13:44<Skrat>phillipsjk; you know PPC assembly?
13:44<Skrat>Oh, right. /me misread
13:44<witte>ozdeb_: i will try to do the thing the maintainer told on my machine, but it could take some time, as i am doing a bunch of stuff at the same time...
13:45<phillipsjk>I do know that you have to load the instruction as a vectuor or something for PIC/ppc
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13:46<phillipsjk>or maybe its the data
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13:46*phillipsjk shuts up
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13:47<Skrat>phillipsjk; lol. :P
13:47<sasha>68HC11 - that for controller ?
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13:48<phillipsjk>we were using as a general purpose 8-bit computer for experimentation.
13:49<fxiny>witte: no porbs : 39 ;)
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13:50<phillipsjk>sasha: essentially we had to assembly the whole thig ourselves.
13:50<phillipsjk>*assemble, * thing.
13:51<Skrat>phillipsjk; what can you compile assembly with, BTW?
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13:53<sasha>at Motorola 68HC11 Microcontroller is the compiler and C?
13:53-!-nfc [] has joined #debian
13:53<sasha>GNU C/C++ compiler for 68HC11
13:53<phillipsjk>a program called an assembler. Is is similar to complings C, but there may be one less step.
13:54*Skrat googles
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13:55*phillipsjk used DOS, not linux for his HC11 projects
13:56<sasha>phillipsjk how old are you &
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13:57<phillipsjk>I just prefered win 3.1 to win98 :)
13:59<umbra>does anyone know the location of the wafer battery on an ibook g3?
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13:59<Skrat>umbra, what could you possibly want with it?
13:59<sasha>cool i have only 16 years, but i most time used 80386 in win3.1
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13:59<umbra>i have a friend who is working on this theory that it needs to be replaced
14:00<Skrat>Oh, cool
14:01<umbra>i think i may have just found it
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14:03<sasha>Russian live here?
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14:04<sasha>or Ukrainian ?
14:05-!-juliank [] has joined #debian
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14:06<ircMonkey>I am looking for somewhere to ask questions about PostScript code. Some post script code prevent my printer to do its job correctly: the code added by the command pstops "1:0" >
14:07*Skrat thought postscript was a file format
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14:08<ircMonkey>it is a programing language
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14:09<sasha>I am a foreigner everywhere,
14:09<sasha>And everywhere I like her.
14:09<sasha>Like the boat in the ocean,
14:09<sasha>Lost my shore. )))))
14:09-!-sasha was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
14:10*Skrat sighs
14:10<Skrat>That bot can be harsh, sometimes
14:10<phillipsjk>umbra: (You have a choice for a floppy drive OR a battery?!?)
14:10<Skrat>Yeah, lol
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14:12<umbra>phillips: thanks for the link im looking into it now
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14:14<sasha>For that I am going, I only wrote a poety ?
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14:17<phillipsjk><Skrat> That bot can be harsh, sometimes
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14:18<noflash>sahsha, this isn't a chat channel
14:18<noflash>no need to be sorry :)
14:19<noflash>just wanted to make you aware
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14:21<sasha>I am here for leisure, too, made a bot if you want something you can talk with him but only in Russian, after word processing, it synthesizes voice
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14:22<dominik>how can I install the sources for my running kernel?
14:22<sasha>but my programm only windows
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14:23<Filt>Hello, I have searched with google and as "not so advanced user" I was wondering if it is possible to remove redhat-installation that I have on my hosted dedicated server and replace it with debian?
14:23<dominik>(I want to compile the Intel VTune kernel module)
14:23<Filt>I do _not_ have physical access to the server
14:24<sasha>i need learn linux and programming for that systems
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14:26<Mrkva>hi... i have a really lame question.... is there any way, how to add new group to roster?
14:26<Mrkva>i can't find it anywhere
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14:28<stroyan>dominik: sudo apt-get install linux-tree-$(uname -r)
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14:30<dominik>stroyan: thanks :))
14:31<stroyan>dominik: (actually, uname -r is not an exact match.) linux-tree is just linux-tree-2.6.18 rather than linux-tree-2.6.18-i386 or sudh
14:31<dominik>stroyan: thanks, already got it
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14:33<phillipsjk>filt: you may need KVM access if something goes wrong.
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14:39<dominik>stroyan: the build scripts can't find /lib/modules/(my kernel)/build
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14:39<dominik>isn't there some easy way to compile out-of-kernel modules, especially intel VTune, on debian - without building my own kernel?
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14:41<max66>hi , i recive syslog msg in the terminal ..very noisy i can redirect to file or whatever?
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14:43<chealer_>dominik: if they're packaged by Debian, yes (module-assistant)
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14:44<ToM-x>Calm in here tonight.
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14:45<esfingex>holas denuevo me resulto
14:45-!-obnibolongo [~obnibolon@] has joined #debian
14:45<esfingex>pero el entorno grafico no lo toma XD
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14:47<Flayer>hey.. how can i install a second language for gnome?
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14:51<dondelelcaro>Flayer: AFAIK, if you build the appropriate locales using dpkg-reconfigure locales and then select the right one, it should just work
14:52<Flayer>dondelelcaro, thanks, this looks good so far.
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14:59<stroyan>dominik: I haven't tried building the vtune module on debian. It may be enough to install linux-headers-$(uname -r)
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15:00<dondelelcaro>(note that not everything has been translated, though)
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15:20<tj_>9got the touchpad working well lastnight... now i have a new question for the group if there are any takers... I am running debian 2.6.18-6-486. on an AMD Turion 64 X2 system... i didnt want the 64 bit ver due to a need for certain non-free software... so I used i386... However now I can only get info about one processor. i was told that there was no support for SMP in this kernel... is this so? can i change? is it worth it? an i only
15:20<tj_>utilizing one? or just only able to acess infromation about one?
15:21<themill>tj_: you should use the -686 kernel not the -486 kernel.
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15:21<tj_>why did i end up with the 486 kernel automatically at install?
15:21<themill>tj_: the -486 kernels are not SMP enabled, but the -686 ones are.
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15:21<themill>tj_: no idea.... it seems to happen a bit with the amd chips it seems.
15:22<tj_>my brother used the same disk images as i did, he ended up with 686 but as you say he has intel.. but there is no fear of using the 686 on my amd system? and how hard is the switch?
15:22<tj_>just use apt?
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15:23<themill>tj_: "aptitude install linux-image-2.6.18-6-686" should do it for you. Don't remove your old kernel until you have successfully booted into the new kernel.
15:23<tj_>all aplications will re-configure?
15:24<themill>the applications don't need to do anything
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15:24<tj_>ok. so its relatively seemless then... my goal is to get Gkrellm to display indidvidual cpu info... will gkrellm auto update?
15:25<tj_>will i see a performance improvement?
15:25<dondelelcaro>tj_: possibly
15:26<dondelelcaro>(really depends what you're using your system for)
15:26<tj_>just desktop environment in my notbook
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15:28<tj_>even with the 486 kernel both cpu cores are utilized currently? or just one?
15:28<tj_>not that it matters just curious. will will be switching tonight
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15:30<themill>tj_: both cores will be used by the 686 kernel but only one by the 486 kernel.
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15:31<tj_>yay that makes me happy! to know i will be getting use of an additional core
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15:37<tj_>the phrase "user friendly" doesnt exist in linux vocab does it? LOL but its fun and frusterating for a novice.
15:38<Christmas>yes it is it's called manual pages :D
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15:39<tj_>looked at a few.. i didnt know they existed... how helpful.
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15:40<dpkg>Before asking, please read the documentation. Documentation isn't always easy to read, but that doesn't excuse you from (a) trying and (b) sending patches to improve the docs. If you don't do this, expect to be told to RFTM by an impatient volunteers. Dick Brandon said that "Documentation is like sex: When it is good, it is very, very, good. And when it is bad, it is better than nothing." Ask me about <finding docs>.
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15:41<tj_>LOL hint taken
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15:41<themill>tj_: not really a hint to you -- just that it seemed pertinent (particularly the bit about the docs sometimes being bad...)
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15:42<tj_>i gotcha you guys in here are just so helpfull......
15:42<tj_>ever called Microsoft? LOL
15:43<Christmas>there was a discussion on the forums about not getting help
15:44<themill>We try to help, or at least help you help yourself.
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15:45<tj_>my brother bought his notebook new in box... and outta the box the ethernet adapter didnt work... he called the manufacture, and they said the notebook was designed and previously shipped with xp but now only came with vista and he was to call MS... so he did and they flat out told him they were aware of the problem and that there was no patch no update no driver nothing and he had to wait untill SP! came out which it did like a month ago i
15:45<tj_>think.... 6 months after purchase.
15:46<tj_>its ok.. though... i turned him on to Debian!
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15:48<themill>tj_: sounds like a familiar story. Creative audio did a similar thing:
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15:54<tj_>yep that article is well informing... its all over a dollar...
15:54<tj_>free is awsome
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15:55<tj_>well, guys gotta get off the work clock, get some grup and switch kernels... See ya later everyone... thanks again for the advice.. i'll look at manpages first next time promise... i'll be back though. take good care.
15:55*phillipsjk debating wheter or not to buy XP pro retail to resell when Microsoft stops selling it.
15:55<tj_>could be a good investment.
15:55<tj_>how do we get the world to turn free? whats the big hold back?
15:56<phillipsjk>I'd have to make a matching donation to the FSF to not feel too dirty.
15:56<themill>phillipsjk: I would put that in the same category as arms dealing though. Good business sense and if you don't do it someone else will, but morally wrong.
15:56<tj_>we'll continue this later.... bye everyone
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16:08<[Wintermute]>hi there
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16:08<[Wintermute]>somebody updated ubuntu 7.10 to 8.04?
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16:12<chealer_>[Wintermute]: this is a Debian support channel. your question is offtopic
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16:16<[Wintermute]>Ok chealer, sorry
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16:30<perejil^>buenas noches
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16:38<kop>I'm looking at bug # 457641 ( and wondering if anybody else has this problem? Can someone on etch try using openoffice calc, copying a formula and pasting it into multiple cells?
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16:42<chealer>kop: please ask on the bug report
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16:44<kop>chealer : Ok. I'm about to send a critical note. It does not seem to me that something once working in stable should be broken, to the point of unusablility, and then not be fixed.
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16:44<kop>chealer : commen?
16:45<kop>chealer (comment?)
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16:45<chealer>kop: certainly
16:49<kop>chealer: I mean: stable is not supposed to be updated, and updates are not supposed to break it. What does policy, or tradition or consensus, say about what's supposed to happen if an update breaks a stable package?
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16:50<chealer>kop: nothing particular. all broken packages should be fixed or removed. I don't know your bug, but it doesn't seem to be that the package is broken.
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16:54<kop>chealer : Depends on your value of broken. Every time I use a spreadsheet I make a formula and proceed to copy it, say down a column, to produce something that works. A spreadsheet where you have to copy cell-by-cell is pretty broken to me. It's like having a word processor that does not line-wrap. Runs, yes. Does useful work, no.
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16:55<StrongDaddy>I'm trying to install php5 on debian, can someone help please
16:55<kop>!tell StrongDaddy -about ask
16:55<StrongDaddy>apt-get install PHP5 <- package not found
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16:56<phillipsjk>apt-cache search php5
16:56<StrongDaddy>apt-get install php5 worked, but php -v does not do anything
16:57<StrongDaddy>command not found
16:57<Clown`>apt-get update
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16:58<the-dude>StrongDaddy: apache 1.3 or 2.* ?
16:58<StrongDaddy>did apt-get update
16:59<StrongDaddy>then apt-get install php5
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17:01<Clown`>uncomment everything in ur /etc/apt/sources.list
17:01<Clown`>i mean those repos links
17:02<StrongDaddy>look, I'm new to linux, what are repos links?
17:02<Clown`>those are links of package mirrors
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17:03<Clown`>eg etc etc
17:03<kop>StrongDaddy : Then "dpkg -L php5" should list all files. One of them is the executable.
17:03<StrongDaddy>there's only 2 inside
17:03<kop>Clown` : It seems he installed it, but it's not in his path.
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17:05<StrongDaddy>that's it
17:06<kop>StrongDaddy : FYI, I'll tell you about pastebin
17:06<kop>!tell StrongDaddy -about pastebin
17:07<kop>StrongDaddy : That's interesting, that's what my php5 says....
17:08<kop>StrongDaddy : I see. 'aptitude show php5' says: This package is a meta-package that, when installed, guarantees that you have at least
17:08<kop> one of the four server-side versions of the PHP5 interpreter installed.
17:09<kop>StrongDaddy : You must not have the command line (cgi version?) interpreter installed. Check the "Depends" list and see which of those you want to install.
17:09<phillipsjk>Does the php5 executable only apply to the CGI implementation?
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17:10<kop>phillipsjk : I'd expect that's true of the command line executable, yes.
17:10<kop>phillipsjk : You'd have to read the package descriptions....
17:11<StrongDaddy>well, so what do I do?
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17:12<StrongDaddy>what dhat do I do to type php and it would work?
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17:13<kop>StrongDaddy : You need to install one or another of the packages listed as depending on the php5 package. One of them does what you want. You either have to read the package descriptions to tell which, or blindly try installing them all.
17:14<kop>StrongDaddy : Why do you want to type php5 and have it work? That's not how php is usually used. Usually it runs from a webserver.
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17:15<phillipsjk>The description for php-cgi says: "that MOST apache users probably want the libapache-mod-php5 or libapache2-mod-php5 packages."
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17:16<brunner>have you guys ever heard of dedicated hosting on which the customer doesn't have root access?
17:16-!-mode/#debian [+o debhelper] by ChanServ
17:16<dondelelcaro>brunner: I'm sure it exists, but I wouldn't ever purchase it
17:16-!-emonge [~emonge@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:16<themill>brunner: yes.
17:16<brunner>is it normal?
17:16<phillipsjk>brunner: I suppose it is possible. How you would be able to verify the machine is not shared, I don't know.
17:16<brunner>I just ran into it today with Pair Networks
17:17-!-famelix [] has joined #debian
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17:17<brunner>how the ---- am I supposed to install anything?
17:17<brunner>even something as simple as mod_status for apache
17:17<themill>brunner: I've seen it a few times on the cheapest hosting plans where they just install apache etc for you and don't let you do anything else beyond that.
17:17<kop>brunner: sudo?
17:18<brunner>no sudo
17:18<StrongDaddy>I just installed php5-cli
17:18<StrongDaddy>not I need to figure ut a way to install pear
17:18<brunner>[lewrw@qs1888 ~]$ sudo -i
17:18<brunner>bash: /usr/local/bin/sudo: Permission denied
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17:19<StrongDaddy>how do i download file?
17:19<StrongDaddy>I need to get
17:19<dondelelcaro>brunner: if it's actually dedicated, they should give you root access; if they don't, switch providers.
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17:20<phillipsjk>apt-cache search pear
17:20<themill>StrongDaddy: aptitude install php-pear
17:20<brunner>any suggested providers/
17:20<angelblade> hi.. any idea for fix this?? a machine proliant was running debian and the power suply is off....electricity back and the machine try boot show this error while grub loaded "crc error --- System halted"
17:21<phillipsjk>nevermind, too much uselees junk on my suggestion
17:22<themill>phillipsjk: apt-cache search php pear works quite well though
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17:23<brunner>I just called and they said they don't give dedicated customers root access
17:24<themill>brunner: time to look elsewhere then...
17:24<brunner>can anyone suggest a dedicated hosting provider that they have experience with?
17:24<brunner>themill: of course
17:24<themill>brunner: I hope you told them that.
17:25<brunner>I will when I call back to cancel
17:25<chealer>angelblade: are the filesystems OK?
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17:26<angelblade>chealer, its possible
17:26<angelblade>i reboot the machine and i read same error crc error system halted
17:26<chealer>angelblade: unless the filesystems are OK, you should start by fixing them
17:28-!-ernesto [] has joined #debian
17:28<angelblade>im thinking the problem is at level of hardware .....
17:28<phillipsjk>Use the install cd as a recovery cd. check the "special ways of using this CD" screen
17:30-!-raya [] has joined #debian
17:30<phillipsjk>It is possible the corruption was a "one time" event. But, your pessimistic view may be correct as well.
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17:34<phillipsjk>welcome back dpkg!
17:34<dpkg>word to your mutha!
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17:43<mzhang>How to completely power down a USB external drive? Unmount doesn't. Windows can...
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17:51<antgel>hi all. my question doesn't relate to stable, so please hold off on the flaming. however it's not a moronic question and someone may know the answer...
17:52<dondelelcaro>best to just ask the question without all the prefacing
17:53<antgel>... currently running a lenny box with binary nvidia drivers, went from kernel 2.6.18 to 2.6.24, but the testing nvidia-kernel-source is far too old for such. i'd happily grab nvidia-kernel-source from sid, but there is a problem with nvidia-glx...
17:53<antgel>according to, it depends on nvidia-kernel-169.12 but "Package not available". i've searched but can find no reference to this package anywhere and was hoping for a clue
17:54<antgel>dondelelcaro: was hoping to defuse flames, testing / unstable /and/ nvidia drivers in one question :)
17:55<dpkg>To use an NVIDIA graphics card with Debian, see If you've done it before, ask me about <nvidia one-liner> for a reminder.
17:55<themill>antgel: ^^ there's a section on lenny on that wiki page
17:55<PetaWindows>which is the currently version of KDE in debian testing?
17:56<dondelelcaro>!tell PetaWindows -about pdo
17:56<antgel>hmm, did i write the pdo factoid?
17:56*antgel loses focus
17:56<chealer>PetaWindows: ask #debian-kde
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17:57<chealer>antgel: there's no testing nvidia-kernel-source. but just ask your question.
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17:57<PetaWindows>dondelelcaro: thx, but I've already seen in debian packages... I don't understand, there is said the kde version in testing is "5:48"... but the newer version of KDE I think is 4.0.3 :S
17:58<antgel>dondelelcaro, themill: i know about the page, but it doesn't answer my basic question which is wtf is this phantom nvidia-kernel-169.12 package that nvidia-glx in sid depends on?
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17:58<antgel>chealer: indeed - the box was upgraded from etch
17:58<themill>PetaWindows: look at the kdelibs package not the kde metapackage
17:58<PetaWindows>themill: wo thx :)
17:58<themill>!tell PetaWindows about kde4
17:58<antgel>i could of course run 2.6.18 but i'd like to test 2.6.24 if i can get nvidia's driver to work without killing myself
17:59<antgel>!seen abrotman
17:59<dpkg>abrotman <n=abrotman@pdpc/supporter/active/abrotman> was last seen on IRC in channel #debian, 1h 11m 50s ago, saying: 'edwin_quijada: you probably want to ask #samba'.
17:59<chealer>themill: note that KDE is more than kdelibs
18:00<phillipsjk>!seen dpkg
18:00<dpkg>phillipsjk: i haven't seen 'dpkg'
18:00<themill>chealer: got a better way to find out what version of kde is in the repo?
18:00<antgel>!seen gravity
18:00<dpkg>gravity <> was last seen on IRC in channel #debian, 1d 20h 9m 3s ago, saying: 'Why the hell can't you talk about a perfectly viable and valid technology just because it came from Microsofot?'.
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18:01<PetaWindows>themill: ok thx ;)... I'm looking forward to try the version 4.0
18:01<chealer>themill: not an equally simple one, but I keep track of it on
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18:02-!-emonge [~emonge@] has quit [Quit: That's all for now, folks]
18:02<themill>chealer: that's useful, thanks. My experience when sarge was testing was that the kde deps seemed tight enough to hold almost all of it together so that you could just took at the version kdelibs. Maybe that was just because I was missing things ;)
18:03<antgel>where do the x packagers hang out?
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18:04<themill>chealer: it's a real pity that the kde metapackage doesn't have a user-friendly (as opposed to just a technically correct!) version number. The kde version question and the "wtf is kde version 5:48" are quite frequently asked.
18:05*antgel tries #debian-x
18:05<mzhang>How to completely power down a USB external drive? Unmount doesn't. Windows can...
18:06<chealer>themill: you were probably missing things, though there's no big difference in general. particularly if he was just wondering if KDE 4 was there. it's just that the exact answer is there.
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18:08<chealer>themill: regarding the metapackage, if you think it could be improved, please propose your idea.
18:10<themill>dpkg: kde version is look at for detailed information, or look at the version of kdelibs for an approximate version.
18:10<dpkg>themill: okay
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18:12<tj_>phillipsjk and dondelelcaro.... you guys around? LOL :(
18:12<dondelelcaro>tj_: best to just ask whatever your question is
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18:13<dondelelcaro>antgel: it's a virtual package that the kernel module packages generated by m-a provide
18:13<tj_>no question yet... i havent done any research... just wanted to share my results of installing the 686 kernel... not so good.... tons of errors at boot, no sound, no wireless... freezing apps... not a good scene
18:14<chealer>antgel: note that the X packagers don't manage the nvidia driver. better ask here.
18:14<tj_>2 cpu's in gkrellm though, he he
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18:15<phillipsjk>people asking for me specificly? wierd..
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18:16<tj_>boy, me thinks have opend a big o' can of worms.
18:16<phillipsjk>mzhang: (not sure what they are talking about in the first part)
18:17<themill>chealer: well, there kde metapackage is currently a debian native package and that makes perfect sense for what it is designed to do -- provide a big pile of dependencies to install other things. But its version doesn't reflect the kde version that is installed; it doesn't need to because it's only showing changes to the deps of the metapackage. But it would also be possible for meta-kde to be a non-native package carrying the kde version number. So it could
18:17<themill>become 6:3.5.9-1 in sid atm; if you need to change deps then it gets a new debian revision; if you release a new upstream kde it gets a new upstream version.
18:17<themill>chealer: There's no advantage to the kde maintainers in doing this, but there's a big user benefit. I'm not sure if there would be a problem with transitions though with this approach.
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18:19<dondelelcaro>themill: the Depends of the kde metapackage makes it fairly clear
18:19<Flayer>dondelelcaro, this ... is amazing.
18:20<chealer>themill: the first problem with that is what version should kde have in testing currently? any choice would be misleading.
18:20<dondelelcaro>Flayer: ?
18:20<themill>dondelelcaro: yeah... and if it were clear, we wouldn't have people asking all the time...
18:20<dondelelcaro>themill: well, people ask for the most obvious things... so...
18:20<themill>chealer: true...
18:20<dondelelcaro>but frankly, this is one of those things that doesn't have a simple answer; gnome has the same problem. "what part of gnome did you want to know which version we distribute?"
18:21<Flayer>dondelelcaro, debian is just so easy .. i just set up a 'guest' user in another language on my laptop
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18:21<Flayer>it took roughly 0 effort
18:21<dondelelcaro>oh; yeah, it's pretty simple
18:21<dondelelcaro>generally in Debian if you're working hard, you're doing it the wrong way
18:21<Flayer>haha yep
18:22-!-mode/#debian [+l 358] by debhelper
18:22<Flayer>i love it i can be my lazy self on this OS
18:22<PetaWindows>But... what exactly means 5:48? Is this an error?
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18:22<themill>chealer: the gnome team seem to adopt precisely this approach for meta-gnome
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18:24<themill>!tell PetaWindows about metapackage
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18:25<PetaWindows>themill: ohhh ok
18:25<chealer>themill: right. I think that's confusing. see #359810 for a related issue
18:26<Flayer>now i just need to ... well, probably: wait ... to get suspend to ram working. for some reason it won't work from gnome, even tho it works fine from xterm as root
18:26<phillipsjk>mzang this link get to the point faster:
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18:27<themill>chealer: istr a similar bug filed against kde some years ago too.
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18:33<themill>chealer: I note that meta-kde used to have a version number scheme like that up until late 2004...
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18:39<chealer>themill: yeah, and it used to be maintained by a single person too :)
18:39<chealer>"The "why is kde in debian still 3.1.2" Release"
18:39<themill>that's the one.
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18:51<tj__>so much for seamless
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18:54<tj__>Did i mess up by installing header files for the 686 kernel at the same time?
18:55<_haxi_> I downloaded a theme, from xfce-look, Wii-Black. But I've no idea how to use it. Anyone?
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18:57<chealer>tj__: at the same time as what?
18:57<tj__>the 686 kernel itself
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19:00<tj__>my realtek sound module was wreaking havoc so severely to the point of total system freeze up :(
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19:00<tj__>so i am working on it now but its giving me module format errors.
19:00<chealer>tj__: why would you have messed up by doing that?
19:01<tj__>logically, i woulda thought it was a good idea and thats why i intalled them too.. but man its screwed up now LOL
19:01<tj__>killed the sound drivers and it atlest stays running
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19:02<tj__>using terminal as root trying to re-install the sound but its not working gonna try actually switching to root.. afraid that the kernel isnt taking the drivers
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19:12<tj_r>geesh... wouldnt let me IRC as root took me a sec to figure that one out
19:12<tj_r>security i guess
19:12<jjmiv>hey guys
19:13<themill>!tell tj_r about root
19:13<jjmiv>how do you reconfigure a kernel, I want to make sure I have wireless capabilities in it
19:13<roleohibachi>do any of you know what might cause my keyboard to stop being recognized during install, at the language selection (first step)? it's on an older machine, pentium 3 500 with 320m of ram
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19:14<personman>just curious, is there a way to make aptitude thread for SMP? only seems to use one core
19:14<tj_r>themill, a danger to myself or everyone else?
19:15<themill>tj_r: mainly yourself until your machine gets knocked over and then becomes a spam relay...
19:16<personman>handy linux tip if you don't know it already, use: make -jX to split large compiles in to multiple jobs for SMP
19:16<tj_r>well... i seem to be screwed anyways... double hole too cause if i do a new clean install i am going to end up witht he 486 kernel again anyways
19:16<tj_r>but i'll kick off IRC
19:16<personman>where X is a number of jobs
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19:16<personman>supposedly using two jobs should speed up uniprocessor machines slightly
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19:17<personman>some complicated IO thing i wont pretend to understand
19:17<themill>Either that or you'll end up thrashing instead.
19:20<roleohibachi>nobody on the keyboard inop issue? it's mysteriously bringing the install to a standstill
19:21<personman>hmm try another keyboard or port, try unpluggint the keyboard and replugging it in...just basic stuff
19:21<roleohibachi>Did. Tried a USB keyboard too, nada.
19:21<roleohibachi>(for other reasons - it doesn't recognize at all.)
19:22<themill>jjmiv: a debian kernel? it already should do. What kernel and what chipset are you interested in?
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19:22<personman>i would guess it's loading some keymap or something your keyboard or system doesn't like
19:23<personman>what to do about it...don't really have a clue heh
19:23<personman>see if there are kernal parameters or installer command lines for it maybe
19:24<roleohibachi>well, it goes power-off to the keyboard indicator lights, or I would assume it was a mapping issue. I looked for everything I could regarding old pentiums, I tried mca-pentium, and I'm already having to use no-hlt. But none of that di any good.
19:26<jjmiv>is there a way to see what is configured in my kernel?
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19:27<ranix>jjmiv: you might have some reading to do. The questions you ask don't make sense
19:27<personman>jjmiv: /boot/config
19:27<themill>jjmiv: /boot/config-$(uname -r)
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19:28<personman>or: nano /boot/config-$(uname -r)
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19:32<kevin_>Sorry to bother, but does anyone know where to add the line "nm-applet &" in fluxbox to get Network Manager to show in the dock?
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19:39<jjmiv>themill: i am trying to get wireless working with a BCM4309 card
19:39<dpkg>bcm43xx is a driver for Broadcom's wireless chipsets ( included in kernels since 2.6.17-rc2, "modprobe bcm43xx" in Etch. Firmware required to be loaded before operation, ask me about <bcm43xx-fwcutter>. Deprecated by <b43legacy> in kernels 2.6.24 and later. USB devices are not supported. Disabled in Debian 2.6.24+ kernel images.
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19:41<jjmiv>yeah, i've gotten it working for ubuntu..but not yet for debian
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19:55<dpkg>well, kde 4 is a new and not-yet-complete version of the KDE desktop. It will probably not be released with Lenny as it is not expected to be stable within the lenny release cycle. See or see also but ask about these experimental packages in #debian-kde not in #debian.
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20:09<roleohibachi>still no idea on why keyboard would go inop only after the installer loads on the netinst cd?
20:10<dondelelcaro>roleohibachi: what type of keyboard is it?
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20:10<roleohibachi>dondelelcaro: ps2
20:10<dondelelcaro>roleohibachi: is the installer responding at all?
20:10<dondelelcaro>for ps2, you've almost certainly got a hung machine
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20:10<roleohibachi>I don't really know; it doesn't seem hung. it's that the lights on the keyboard all go off.
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20:11<dondelelcaro>roleohibachi: try using the pci=noacpi and/or acpi=off; options and see if that helps. [See the boot help screens on F3 and F4 iirc.]
20:11<phillipsjk>You said you already tried another keyboard. (PS/2)?
20:11<dondelelcaro>roleohibachi: ps2 keyboards are pretty much bullet proof in the installer; I've never seen them fail save when the machine has hung completely.
20:12<roleohibachi>Yeah. I'm having to use no-hlt, if that matters... but it shouldn't
20:12<dondelelcaro>(which happens from time to time because acpi is a total piece of crap)
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20:14<jjmiv>fwcutter isn't in apt, what gives?
20:15<witte>!tell jjmiv about non-free
20:15<roleohibachi>acpi=off worked. I love you guys. dondelelcaro, especially.
20:15<dondelelcaro>jjmiv: it's in contrib; you probably don't have a source for contrib added.
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20:16<roleohibachi>and you too, phillipsjk
20:16<witte>oops, in contrib appereantly, not non-free
20:16<jjmiv>that was going to be my second guess...check my sources.list
20:16<jjmiv>what's a good contrib source
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20:17<dpkg>well, contrib is Debian packages that are free, but depend on software not in Debian (possibly in contrib or non-free). To get packages in contrib, add lines like deb http://yourmirror/debian/ [testing|stable] main in your /etc/apt/sources.list need 'contrib' and possibly 'non-free' on the end. Ask me about <non-free>
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20:19<jjmiv>ew errors
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20:25<NinjaMan>hi all, how do I download and extract files from a deb without installing it? (can I do this using apt?)
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20:30<NinjaMan>does anyone here use a dell sk-8135 usb multimedia keyboard? - if so how do I get the volume control to work properly
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20:34<roleohibachi>I don't know for sure, but could it be similar to the windows-key mapping issue? just remap whatever code it sends to the console to the volume?
20:35<HaMMiE>a dormir
20:35<HaMMiE>to sleep
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20:42<NinjaMan>rolehibachi: it is actually not the mapping that is the problem. the key is recognised. the problem is when I turn it one notch it generates a continuous stream of events until another key is pressed
20:42-!-tj_ [] has joined #debian
20:42<roleohibachi>NinjaMan: whoa! I had no idea. and, I now continue to have no idea.
20:43<tj_>well... i'm in xp on an old 450mhz PII, dont hate on me too much.. i am only here as a MS user as i have no choice
20:43<dpkg>[dell] a wonderful company that makes very wonderful laptops, but also some extremely bad laptops. For new ISOs to boot your Dell server, look at, the worst company you could ever do business with, crap,,
20:43<NinjaMan>rolehibachi: no problem, I beginning to wonder if the problem is my keyboard or my KVM :(
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20:44<phillipsjk>NinjaMan; one way to rule out the KVM...
20:44<tj_>i have searched the net.... didnt find what i was looking for.... is it possible to choose my kernel ver. at the intall prompt from my net install cd?
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20:44<NinjaMan>philipsjk: yes you are right, I had thought I'd done it initially, but I've now had the problem a long time, so I will do again
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20:46*phillipsjk keeps notes for troubleshooting projects taking that long.
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20:50<tj_>is it possible to choose my kernel ver. at the intall prompt from my net install cd?
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20:54<NinjaMan>philipsjk: :) lo and behold it is the damn kvm
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20:56<NinjaMan>I guess if there is no applicable firmware upgrade for my kvm, then I am shit out of luck
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21:00<tj_> is it possible to choose my kernel ver. at the intall prompt from my net install cd?
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21:02<ole>intel 3945 in lenny testing?
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21:03<ole>I've enabled contrib and non-free, but there is no module packages?
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21:03<NinjaMan>philipsjk / roleohibachi: how do I download and extract files from a deb without installing it? (can I do this using apt?)
21:04<ole>Also, any tips on how to get my touchpad up and running?
21:04<ole>it work in ubuntu. (I'm quite sure it's a synaptics)
21:06<ole>the bot is sleeping :P
21:06<dpkg>If you're running a recent version of Debian (etch or greater), do the following: add <contrib> and <non-free> entries in your sources.list, "aptitude update && aptitude install ipw3945-modules-$(uname -r) firmware-ipw3945 ipw3945d && modprobe ipw3945". If you're running Debian's 2.6.23 or newer, ask me about <iwlwifi>. See also <ipw3945-fu>
21:07<dpkg>well, synaptics is a driver for the touchpad on many laptops for synaptics support in x install xfree86-driver-synaptics or xserver-xorg-input-synaptics and "man synaptics" for the driver options, if its not working try "modprobe -r psmouse ; modprobe psmouse". also see
21:07<ole>but there is no ipw3945-modules-*
21:07<chealer>tj_: by version, do you mean the image/flavor, like 686?
21:07<tj_>yes 686 instead of 486
21:08<chealer>ole: the driver for IPW3945 is now integrated in Linux
21:08<ole>chealer, hm, but I don't get wireless
21:08<ole># apt-cache search --names-only ipw3945
21:08<ole>firmware-ipw3945 - Binary firmware for Intel Wireless 3945 (old style)
21:08<ole>ipw3945d - Binary userspace regulatory daemon for Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG cards
21:09<ole>deb lenny contrib non-free
21:09<tj_>going through the install again... and it chose 486 for me again
21:10<tj_>i looked at the install info on the and no info on choosing the kernel.. only other stuff like ide controllers desktop environment and the like. unless i missed it
21:10<ole>I tried installing the firmware-iwlwifi, but it had no effect
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21:10<ole>at least no modules are installed
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21:13<chealer>ole: is xserver-xorg-input-synaptics installed?
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21:14<ole>chealer, yes, and the settings in xorg.conf is exactly the same as in ubuntu (set by the installer)
21:14<ole>I think it might have something to do with my laptop being a toshiba
21:15<ole>I tried modprobe everything with tosh in it, and then dpkg-reconfigure xserver-...
21:15<ole>and restarting gdm
21:15<ole>but no use
21:15<tj_>ole ask dondelelcaro for his xorg.con touchpad section
21:15<tj_>it works on my a215
21:15<ole>dondelelcaro, poke
21:16<chealer>ole: please provide your X log
21:17<tj_>i wish i had saved it to file now :( cause i will be needing it again too .. since my whole machine crashed
21:17<tj_>leave it up to the newbie to toast a whole OS
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21:18<sime>compiz is nice!
21:19<ole>chealer, ah.. Synaptics DeviceOn called might be a problem :P
21:20<ole>hm, but it's set on again after
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21:23<jlj>hi, is there somthing similar to --upward-recursive in bsd ("Deinstall all those packages required by the given packages as well") for APT?
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21:24<Mahalo>Howdy folks.
21:24<dondelelcaro>jlj: use aptitude and it's handled automatically.
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21:24<dondelelcaro>jlj: if nothing else depends on the package in question, it's removed.
21:24-!-MrJoey [] has joined #debian
21:24<jlj>dondelelcaro: but I don't want to use it ;)
21:24<dondelelcaro>jlj: why?
21:25<ole>apt-get --auto-remove?
21:25<dondelelcaro>there's no sane reason not to use aptitude anymore
21:25<jlj>dondelelcaro: it seems..troublesome
21:25<chealer>ole: you may want to verify it's a Synaptics, or try the mouse driver instead anyway
21:25<dondelelcaro>jlj: in what way?
21:26<ole>chealer, hm.. I've used synaptics configurations tools in ubuntu, so I'm quite sure
21:26<jlj>dondelelcaro: lots of convoluted menues
21:26<ole>I could try of course
21:26<dondelelcaro>jlj: you don't have to use the ncurses mode unless you want to
21:26<dondelelcaro>though frankly, the ncurses mode isn't particularly complicated once you spend a bit using it
21:26<sime>I have switched to lenny and I cannot start gaim starts piding instead
21:26<chealer>jlj: which Debian suite do you use?
21:27<jlj>dondelelcaro: is the command line version more straight forward?
21:27<jlj>chealer: etch
21:28<dondelelcaro>jlj: they're both straight forward, but the command line version is almost just s/apt-get/aptitude/ for most common commands.
21:28<ole>hm... any fuse experts here? I've added myself to the fuse group, but still get "fuse: failed to open /dev/fuse: Permission denied"
21:28<jlj>dondelelcaro: ok, I'll try it
21:29<phillipsjk>Ninjaman you can use the "source" option of apt-get for soucre cod, or use a chroot environment.
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21:31<NinjaMan>thanks philipsjk - I had no idea you could run an entirely separate linux instance in a chroot
21:31<phillipsjk>I hesitate to suggest it because I never tried it :)
21:31<chealer>jlj: there is, but only starting from APT 0.7.
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21:32<NinjaMan>ole: what is your problem in fuse?
21:32<NinjaMan>ole: and what are you trying to do, that initiates the problem?
21:32<NinjaMan>ole: is this about using ntfs-3g?
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21:35<terry>i can't move windows outside the screen over the top edge of the desktop, how do i eliminate this limitation from gnome?
21:35<ole>NinjaMan, sorry, Fixed it myself. had to re-log in to get my shell to understand that I was in the fuse group
21:35<ole>seems kinda strange
21:35<ole>but sure
21:36<tj_>what is a linux-image vs a linux-kernel?
21:36<dondelelcaro>tj_: it was called kernel-image before, now it's called linux-image; there is no linux-kernel.
21:36<path>differents names, the same thing
21:36<phillipsjk>!tell sime about pidgin
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21:37<terry>!tell terry about gnome, limitation, desktop, top edge
21:37<ole>hm.. no mplayer-nogui in lenny? (testing)
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21:38<terry>!tell terry about gnome + limitation + desktop + top edge
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21:38<NinjaMan>terry: install brightside
21:39<chealer>tj_: what do you mean by linux-kernel?
21:39<tj_>so to be exact to get the right kernel i want linux-image-2.6.686? or linux-image-2.6.18-6-686?
21:39<sime>phillipsjk, thx!
21:39<dondelelcaro>tj_: the first is a meta package which depends on the current version of the second
21:39<terry>NinjaMan: never heard of that, is it a gnome tweaking application?
21:39<jlj>chealer: ok, I've got apt
21:39<tj_>ok in other words i want them both and the matching headers?
21:40<NinjaMan>terry: it is the application that activates edge & corner re-activity in gnome
21:40<chealer>!tell terry about self tell
21:40<NinjaMan>terry: it is in the debian repository
21:40<snogglethorpe>anyone know why the gnome-power-manager package seems so insanely bloated? [It's 12MB!]
21:40<terry>chealer: sorry, thank you
21:41<ole>sweeet, the my ugly ubuntu xvid (Xvideo) bug is not here
21:41<ole>finally I can play video without fan-noise :P
21:41<terry>ole: read the topic: this is not #ubuntu
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21:42<snogglethorpe>terry: maybe he installed debian and the bug went away... :-)
21:42<ole>terry, yes, I'm glad that debian does not have the bug :)
21:42<NinjaMan>snogglethorpe: if I was to hazard a guess - there is some kind of very large ACPI/APM h/w vs settings lookup table in it
21:42<snogglethorpe>NinjaMan: that's a big table...
21:43<snogglethorpe>NinjaMan: (ok, maybe they used some really dumb way of encoding it, e.g. badly designed xml or something)
21:43-!-terry [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
21:43<NinjaMan>snogglethorpe: there are a lot of h/w variants and combinations
21:43<NinjaMan>snogglethorpe: it is only a guess
21:44*phillipsjk guesses pretty icons!
21:45<sime>are compiz and compiz fusion the same?
21:45<tj_>so confusing linux-headers-2.6.18-6-686 or linux-headers-2.6-686 one says for out of tree modules? whats the diff?
21:46<phillipsjk>tj_ one sound like a meta-package.
21:46<dondelelcaro>tj_: uh... did you read the description?
21:46<tj_>i read it doesnt mean i understand it :p
21:46<snogglethorpe>NinjaMan: oddly, there don't seem to be any single huge files in that package... the b
21:46<chealer>snogglethorpe: as a guess, large documentation
21:47<snogglethorpe>NinjaMan: the biggest component seems to be an _enormous_ number of icons...
21:47<snogglethorpe>(plus tons of translations)
21:47<NinjaMan>snogglethorpe - LOL - well I stand corrected
21:47<snogglethorpe>NinjaMan: ugh
21:47<phillipsjk>Does that mean I win a prize?
21:47<snogglethorpe>phillipsjk: lol
21:47-!-oscar32b [] has joined #debian
21:48<snogglethorpe>phillipsjk: you win a free date with a gnome
21:48<tj_>alrighty then... we get them both..
21:48<NinjaMan>snogglethorpe - I would have assumed things like that would be hived off into separate packages
21:48<snogglethorpe>NinjaMan: heh
21:48<snogglethorpe>NinjaMan: you'd think, wouldn't you?
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21:50<snogglethorpe>a lot of the bloat actually seems to be in the help
21:50-!-MrJoey [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:50<snogglethorpe>which contains e.g. duplicated "example" images for every single language supported
21:50<snogglethorpe>all that stuff certainly _should_ be in another package...
21:51<snogglethorpe>[all this for a subsystem which I almost certainly will never use on this machine...]
21:51<NinjaMan>snogglethorpe - see this is what happens as hd space and bandwith becomes pletniful
21:51<snogglethorpe>NinjaMan: yeah but gnome takes things beyond the bounds of decency
21:52<snogglethorpe>NinjaMan: they've clearly adopted MS as a model for their development methods
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21:52<chealer>snogglethorpe: amarok is only worst
21:53<beerNcoffee>lenny bite me
21:53<NinjaMan>snogglethorpe: I thought the MS method was make sure 90% of your code was dedicated to protecting the other 10% of the code for intellectual property rights ...
21:53<tj_>if i want to install an audio codec driver from realtek and they dont tell me what its dependancies are... how do i fing out?
21:54<beerNcoffee>hardest laptop install
21:54<phillipsjk>tj_ I use modconf
21:55<tj_>and secondly, where would you want to put such a driver (prime location) to be loaded as module?
21:55<snogglethorpe>chealer: hmm well audio players have always been a funny niche...
21:55<jlj>chealer: what is the command parameter on APT 0.7?
21:55-!-gusnan [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:55<chealer>snogglethorpe: what do you mean?
21:55<chealer>jlj: what's your favorite APT front-end?
21:56<beerNcoffee>fixed it with pm-utils ha ha
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21:56<phillipsjk>NinjaMan: A lot of the windows mess is backward-compatibility.
21:57<snogglethorpe>chealer: well, they're essentially a fairly simple app, but they always seem to focus hugely on skinnable interfaces and visualizations, etc... maybe more so than they focus on audio processing!
21:57<jlj>chealer: well, nothing. just plain apt-get
21:57<thepretender84>has anyone spoke to palmela handerson tonight?
21:58<chealer>tj_: you pretty much look at what it's missing to work
21:58<chealer>snogglethorpe: amarok's problem is the same as your GNOME thing - multilingual doc
21:58<chealer>jlj: apt-get autoremove
21:59<tj_>so just install it untill you his a error for dependant package than grab it?
21:59<jlj>chealer: ok, thanks
21:59<snogglethorpe>seems like the docs/help should be in a separate "recommended" package -- that way they'd usually get installed, but people on limited systems (like me) could ask them not to be
21:59<NinjaMan>teryy: did you install brightside?
22:00<snogglethorpe>of course splitting by language could work the same way but maybe woudl cause too many packages...
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22:03<dondelelcaro>snogglethorpe: it is in the cases where it's large neough to matter
22:03<dondelelcaro>(the other half is that we usually split them out because it reduces the mirror utilization, since documentation is almost always an Arch: all package)
22:04-!-RIVE [~cesar@] has joined #debian
22:04<snogglethorpe>dondelelcaro: hhm so is it just that no one's bothered to do it in thsi case?
22:04<RIVE>Hi, good night.
22:04<dondelelcaro>snogglethorpe: which case are we talking about?
22:04<snogglethorpe>dondelelcaro: gnome-power-manager
22:05<snogglethorpe>dondelelcaro: (a huge package [12MB] that seems to have much less actual content]
22:05<snogglethorpe>dondelelcaro: and vast quantities of icons and help stuff
22:05<snogglethorpe>dondelelcaro: (e.g. images for help examples, one for each supported language...)
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22:06<dondelelcaro>that package is insane
22:06<snogglethorpe>dondelelcaro: hmm so it's a known thing?
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22:07<snogglethorpe>dondelelcaro: annoying for me, as I'll probably never use the functions the pacakge implements...
22:07<dondelelcaro>yeah, I'd file a wishlist bug with a patch that splits it out into two or three packages and makes a small binary-only stub which just has the binaries, a common package which has the icons for C and maybe en, and a recommended package which has everythign else
22:07<snogglethorpe>(and my disk is very small!)
22:07<dondelelcaro>but frankly, since I don't use gnome, I'm not the person to make it
22:08<dondelelcaro>snogglethorpe: if your disk is small enough that it matters, you probably shouldn't be running gnome
22:08<snogglethorpe>dondelelcaro: i dunno, gnome's not a problem in general, but things like this stick out
22:08<snogglethorpe>dondelelcaro: [disk isn't hugely tiny -- 4.5 GB -- but maybe not up to the gnome project's expectations...]
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22:09<snogglethorpe>the thing is with most stuff, you can pick and choose which packages you want
22:09<snogglethorpe>but for gnome-power-manager is dependend on by some otherwise basic stuff
22:10<dondelelcaro>yeah, that's probably just a case where no one has bothered
22:10<snogglethorpe>dondelelcaro: i'll file a bug i gues (tho the patch is beyond my abilities)
22:10<dondelelcaro>but I'm not on the gnome packaging team, so I couldn't say. If you want it fixed, the best thing to do is to do what I recommended, and file a bug with a patch.
22:11<chealer>snogglethorpe: it's just that APT didn't install recommends by default until recently
22:11<snogglethorpe>chealer: I think it's a depend, not a recommend
22:11<Mahalo>Hey guys, I just upgraded my Etch kernel to 2.6.18-6-686 (from *-5-686) and in that kernel I can't see my usb wireless adapter...where might I find some info on adding the adapter to the new kernel?
22:12<chealer>snogglethorpe: no, I mean if there had been an hypothetic gnome-poower-manager-doc package which gnome-power-manager would have recommended, APT wouldn't have installed it automatically, so most users wouldn't have the doc.
22:12<dondelelcaro>Mahalo: which usb adapter?
22:12<snogglethorpe>chealer: oh i c what you're saying
22:13<snogglethorpe>chealer: so aptitude installs recommends by default now, but what's the deal with apt-get? is it _still_ not installing recommends?
22:13<Mahalo>It is a WUSB54g Linksys
22:13<ole>so apt does not have a mechanism to install the correct doc-package based on the current locale?
22:13<chealer>snogglethorpe: it does, but only in lenny
22:13<snogglethorpe>chealer: ok
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22:13<Mahalo>It rocks on my old kernel...I can just keep using it but I want to learn how to upgrade as I learn more about Debian
22:13<snogglethorpe>chealer: no doubt accompanies by a litany of whining...
22:14<dondelelcaro>chealer: in this case, it's not documentation, but a ton of icons
22:18<chealer>ole: right
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22:20<chealer>dondelelcaro: icons take "only" 1 MB. doc takes 3
22:20<Mahalo>What are the sites where I can enter what I'm putting into my command line so I can post a URL here so you can see what I'm trying to do?
22:20<dpkg>Do not paste more than 3 lines to this channel. Instead, use: or or for pics. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste!
22:21<Mahalo>PErfect, thanks. I have it bookarked on my Debian box but I'm working on it! BRB
22:21<chealer>snogglethorpe: translations also take much space
22:22-!-mode/#debian [+l 346] by debhelper
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22:27<RIVE>I'm having problems with kernel 2.4.24 and the Nvidia .bin driver.
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22:31<dondelelcaro>unfortunatly, there's not a whole lot we can do to help you, but try asking a specific question anyway.
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22:31<snogglethorpe>chealer: yup... anyway, the package is silly big (the actual program seems to only be about 350KB!) and certainly should be split up _somehow_...
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22:32<ole>suggestions for resolving this:
22:32<ole>/var/log/apt/term.log:Starting Toshiba hotkeys utils: FnFX Daemon v0.3 (c) 2003, 2004 Timo Hoenig <>
22:32<ole>/var/log/apt/term.log:fatal error: Could not open /proc/acpi/toshiba/keys.
22:32<ole>/var/log/apt/term.log:Please make sure that your kernel has enabled the Toshiba option in the ACPI section.
22:32<ole>How do I make sure it has?
22:33<beerNcoffee>gnight sleepy
22:33<Mahalo>OK, here it is:
22:33<gsimmons>ole: Sounds like you need to load the toshiba_acpi module.
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22:34<chealer>snogglethorpe: there's also a 1 MB schemas file. splitting doc would help, but it wouldn't even cut size by a third
22:35<snogglethorpe>chealer: afaics, the "real" contents is about 2MB (binary + schema [though wtf _that's_ so big...] + misc)
22:35<snogglethorpe>chealer: the whole icons thing is bizarre
22:35<phillipsjk>ole /boot/config-kernelversion appears to show compile-time options used.
22:35<ole>gsimmons, thanks! is /etc/modules the correct place to put it? (so that it auto loads)
22:36<gsimmons>Mahalo: Run "m-a prepare" first, then try your a-i command again.
22:36<gsimmons>ole: That should be fine.
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22:36<Mahalo>thanks will do
22:37<chealer>/var/log/apt/term.log? cool :)
22:37<Mahalo>crud, same error
22:37<snogglethorpe>chealer: I think ideally the package wouldn't actually be depended on at all
22:37<snogglethorpe>chealer: (by gnome-session)
22:38<witte>Mahalo: which kernel do you have now?
22:38<witte>Mahalo: uname -a
22:39<Mahalo>2.6.18-5-686 works great when I boot into it.
22:39<ole>does anyone know what exactly get run when I click shut down -> suspend?
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22:40<chealer>snogglethorpe: I have no idea, I could never use GNOME
22:40<ole>It works in hardy, so I should be able to somehow copy over the scripts, but I need to know what that is done
22:41<ole>chealer, what do you use? Always interesting you know
22:41<snogglethorpe>chealer: I think there's a tension between the "usable as separate components" and "one giant amorphous blob" visions...
22:41<chealer>ole: KDE
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22:41<ole>ok, boring :P
22:42<witte>Mahalo: and if you do aptitude install linux-headers-2.6.18-6-686.
22:42<chealer>snogglethorpe: well, if gnome-power-manager was only 3 MB, it wouldn't be exactly giant.
22:42<snogglethorpe>chealer: well that'd probably be under my "eyes bugging out" threshold anyway
22:42<Mahalo>OK, I'll restart to get to the networked kernel and get those...that is probably it. brb. Thanks witte
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22:44<steph291>hi room !
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22:46<steph291>anyone knows a bit about the package camsource and camserv here
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22:46<steph291>I just install Etch, I'm having a lot problem with those 2 packages
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22:49<phillipsjk>ole: the documentation may tell you. I had to look it up to get a similar function to work with xfce.
22:49<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, problem is something that can be solved, fixed or worked around if properly described. A good thorough description of the problem, with detailed steps of how to reproduce the problem, the produced output, and the expected output, is the best start to discuss a problem.
22:49<witte>steph291: if you are not going to tell what your problem is, nobody will help you!
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22:50<ole>phillipsjk, yeah, figured it out. I'm pretty sure it's pm_suspend
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22:51<steph291>I have a bt848 capture card and a quickcam express on the same Etch, so far module are install, along v4l
22:53<steph291>but camserv works with the qc-usb but if I try to bring up camserv with bt848 capture card, IOCTL error
22:53<steph291>at the same time
22:53<steph291>2 cfg
22:54<steph291>I mean 2 cfg file, 2 instance of camserv
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22:56<steph291>last thing, there's no camsource .deb that I could find
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22:58<Mahalo>witte: HAng on, now I can't get on with my other kernel either...checking config for the IP stack...rats.
22:58<witte>steph291: i have to admit, i know virtually nothing about the things that you are talking about, but, do you have the bt848 module loaded?
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23:08<Mahalo>That is I can't get attached to my adapter at all and my computer is seeing my wireless as unsecured...
23:08-!-steph291 [~steph291@] has joined #debian
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23:08<Mahalo>My XP machine and my 2K3 server both see it as secured.
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23:10<k-man>im about to put a new sata controller in my pc, how do i make sure my current sata drives don't get shifted to other devices?
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23:12<witte>k-man: I think udev should be able to do that
23:12<Mahalo>Well, it is working now...I'll have to figure that issue out too! IT is dling the headers now and installing them
23:12<Mahalo>Had to set it as a static IP
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23:15<k-man>so, in fstab, can i just replace /dev/hde1 with /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3250823A_3ND16G6N for example?
23:16<k-man>oops, i meant ata-ST3250823A_3ND16G6N-part1 which links to /dev/hde1 on my system
23:16<witte>k-man: yes
23:17<k-man>witte, cool, thanks
23:17<witte>k-man: that should work (but unless someone else confirms this, put a rescue or live cd nearby, just to be on the safe side)
23:17<k-man>witte, good idea
23:17<k-man>or test first with a non critical partition
23:18<witte>k-man: i think ubuntu does it like that now by default, it should work, I am just not sure it will work after replacing the sata controller as i don't know how the naming is done
23:19<k-man>witte, i see,
23:19<k-man>i'm pretty sure it will work
23:19<k-man>thats the whole point of the id's i think
23:19<k-man>i also need to make sure my lvm partitions use the ids
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23:29<Mahalo>witte: No dice...I can see it now, but can't configure it right. see: for what I did...
23:29<Mahalo>Can't even get it to work with a static
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23:30<witte>Mahalo: isn't ralink naming it's devices wlan0?
23:30<Mahalo>hmm...lemme see
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23:31<witte>Mahalo: have a look in dmesg (unplug and replug the device first to find it quickly)
23:31<amphi>or ifconfig -a
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23:32<witte>amphi: but the device needs to be up in that case?
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23:32<Mahalo>didn't power it back up..
23:32<witte>amphi: oh no, they don't
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23:34<NinjaMan>is anyone here a a DNS Supremo? - I have DHCP/DNS built into my router serving my DMZ and another Firewall Machine with DNS/DHCP serving my internal network.
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23:34<Mahalo>Man, it didn't like that at all...couldn't even shut down!
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23:35<NinjaMan>the DNS on my firewall machine is using my ISP DNS as forwarders, but how do I configure it to use the router DNS as a forwarder for the DMZ network only?
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23:40<kop>NinjaMan : The router and the firewall are running Linux?
23:42<NinjaMan>kop: only the firewall is on linux, the router is a speedtouch 585
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23:43<kop>NinjaMan : More to the point, it's not clear how you've got things plugged together. How is it that the DMZ traffic goes through the firewall when "the router [is] serving my DMZ"?
23:44<NinjaMan>kop; *Internet* -> [Router]-> *DMZ (inc PS3 etc.)*->[Linux Firewall]-> *Internal Network*
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23:44<NinjaMan>so the Linux Firewall is connected to the router
23:44<NinjaMan>but the computers of my internal network are connected to my Linux firewall via a hub
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23:45<NinjaMan>kop: the linux firewall is dual-homed
23:45<kop>NinjaMan : the way I like to solve this sort of problem is to turn the router into a bridge, put another nic in the Linux box and have the linux box do dhcp and dns for everything.
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23:46<kop>NinjaMan : Then you get *Internet* -> [Linux Firewall] -> two networks, one for dmz and one for internal
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23:46<Mahalo>ifconfig -a didn't show anything, and dmesg only states no IPv6 routers present...unless I'm looking in the wrong place.
23:47<cheddar>whens etch coming out?
23:47<kop>NinjaMan : You've looked at the bind manual at
23:47<Mahalo>I'm sorry, ifconfig -a shows teh MAC address, but no IP
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23:47<witte>Mahalo: which device
23:47<witte>!tell cheddar about etch
23:47<Mahalo>eth1 is the usb adapter
23:47<NinjaMan>kop: yes I understand. however I deliberately not connected my DMZ to my Linux Firewall, because I use it for upnp devices that don't require much restrictions
23:48<NinjaMan>kop: i.e. my PS3, PSP, etc.
23:48<NinjaMan>kop: because my router can handle upnp fully, unlike linux
23:48<amphi>Mahalo: you should be able to then configure it like any other wireless device, ie. with iwconfig and ifconfig+route/dhclient
23:49<witte>Mahalo: in that case it should work, but you just need to configure it correctly
23:49<NinjaMan>kop: yes I've read the documentation - I am still not clear what the best path to proceed is. Do I require a master <-> slave scenario? or can I just delegate zones
23:49<Mahalo>I'm missing something...
23:50<witte>Mahalo: just to be sure, the essid is not the necessarily the routername...
23:50<Mahalo>I checked it out in the router from this machine...
23:50<witte>Mahalo: and is there firmware for that driver?
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23:51<Mahalo>but doing another iwconfig still shows an old router essid
23:51<Mahalo>Is there a file I can manually edit?
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23:51<kop>NinjaMan : You've got enough control over the dns on the router to create subdomains? To configure slaves?
23:52<amphi>Mahalo: try iwlist eth1 scan
23:53<NinjaMan>kop: good question, I've telnet'd in, but the options appear limited
23:53<NinjaMan>kop: but can't I just do it from the Linux firewall
23:53<Mahalo>OK, it sees it properly there
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23:55<kop>NinjaMan: Why not just have the linux box use the router as a forwarder?
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23:55<kop>NinjaMan : Why tell the Linux box about the ISP at all?
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23:56<NinjaMan>kop: that's how I had it initially, but I paid a performance penalty on my DNS requests - small, but noticeable - hence I am trying other solutions
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23:57<kop>NinjaMan: Ok. You have the router hand out domain names like "". Then you setup a separate zone on the Linux box for and have the zone use the forwarders statement in there, and also "forward first;", to send those names to the router. Otherwise stuff goes to the ISP.
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23:58<kop>NinjaMan : I've often found the ISP nameservers to be lacking in response and get better performing going to the authoriatative nameserver directly (via the root nameservers).
23:58<Mahalo>Oh dice. I'm gonna grab some chow and be back in a little biut to mess with it some more. Thanks for your time, amphi and witte.
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---Logclosed Sat Apr 26 00:00:09 2008