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#debian IRC Logs for 2008-07-12

---Logopened Sat Jul 12 00:00:06 2008
---Daychanged Sat Jul 12 2008
00:00<FoxM>digerati: just to be sure... have you tried using NetworkManager? It normally handles pretty good all the details behind the configuration of the wireless cards
00:00<xplicit>just to throw this out here you guys are awesome! =D
00:00<Tsuki>I am trying to get the floppy boot since I have had a hard time with CD boots
00:00<Tsuki>It's having a hard time with the CD mounting for some reason
00:01<Tsuki>I'm about ready to give up. :(
00:01<digerati>I haven't tried networkmanager since I don't have a desktop environment installed right now. I'm on low hardware so I need xfce. I'm going to do that right after I get the internet up, so I'm doing this all from the command line.
00:01<digerati>tsuki: have you checked the BIOS boot order and/or the boot menu?
00:01<Tsuki>It's trying to deter the CDrom again
00:01<Tsuki>I did. No option to boot from CDrom
00:02<Tsuki>It's an old Phoenix Bios
00:02<Tsuki>Dell Optiplex
00:02<xplicit>flash the bios >.<
00:03<digerati>^ that might work. What boot disk are you using?
00:03<xplicit>updating the bios should bring it upto date so you can do that
00:03<Tsuki>I'd love to but I can't find a new bios to flash it with. It's a really old computer
00:03<Tsuki>Pentium MMx chip and 64MB of RAM
00:03<digerati>lol sounds like mine, but i'm 266 mhz
00:03<Tsuki>Floppy Boot from the Debian site
00:03<xplicit>Hmm... than i cant help from there. Get a job and a better computer?
00:04<qq_>Tsuki: do you have en another machine ?
00:04<Tsuki>I HAVE a job and two other computers. I'm just trying to get this old hunk of junk to server some purpose other than collecting dust
00:04<Tsuki>I want to make a testbed server for website development
00:04<digerati>tsuki: I'm betting it could be a cdrom driver issue.
00:05<Tsuki>It might be. I did download the CDrom floppy driver image though
00:05<Tsuki>And the network driver discs
00:05<digerati>tsuki: what if you downloaded a mini floppy distro with the correct driver, copied the entire cd to you hard disk, and installed from there
00:05<Tsuki>As well as boot and root and the small install CD
00:06<Tsuki>Copying to the Hd means taking the Hd out and putting it in my other deskbox mnear as I can tell
00:06<xplicit>or network instal
00:06<Tsuki>Not surehow to do a network install honestly
00:06<xplicit>me ether but it would work
00:06<digerati>no, just run a live floppy distro that can recognize your cd drive and use the cp command
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00:06<Tsuki>This is my first time trying to do this
00:07<Tsuki>I CAN force a CD boot. This I have a disc for
00:07<digerati>well how far can you get into the debian install process?
00:07<Tsuki>Right now I'm trying to see if it's going to go any further on the install. It's done the detecting hardware stage andnow I'm back at a blank blue screen with a black line and a cursor
00:08<Tsuki>Top of the screen still says Low Memory Mode
00:08<digerati>it will say that through the entire install, but it won't cause any problems.
00:08<Tsuki>How can I tell if it hangs?
00:08<digerati>could be its just taking a while to read data. Try giving it a little while
00:09<digerati>honestly, you really can't as far as I know. just wait much longer than you think it could possible take
00:09<Tsuki>Trying to be patient but it's so frustrating
00:09<Tsuki>I've been at this for days trying Fedora, Slackware and now Debian
00:10<qq_>Tsuki: so take of the hard , put that in other machine who may boot from CD , install all what you want , and at end transfer the hard to original machine (166 )
00:10<Tsuki>I just want something that can run Apache for PHP 5 and mySQL
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00:10<digerati>qq has a nice idea
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00:11<Tsuki>I wasn't sure that would work
00:11<digerati>but you might run into issues since mmx chips are only 486.
00:11<Tsuki>I thought they were 586?
00:11<qq_>Tsuki: it work !!!
00:11<FoxM>Why don't you use DamnSmallLinux? it is aimed at small machines
00:11-!-forcedeth [~dhvani@] has joined #debian
00:11<digerati>i was going to recommend a small distro like that
00:11<Tsuki>I'm searching for a good distro. I really don't know which to try
00:12<qq_>Tsuki: install -486 kernel
00:12<digerati>I've also had some luck with absolute linux.
00:12<xplicit>try live distro's to see what fits
00:12<digerati>but i still like qq's idea.
00:12<digerati>just put the hd in another computer to get the distro installed, then plop it back in.
00:13<qq_>Tsuki: install -486 kernel
00:13<digerati>use that kernel option and get xfce.
00:13<qq_> How? what ?
00:13<Tsuki>Nevermind. It failed to detect the CD again. Trying to detect the network instead
00:13<newsense>Tsuki: ive tried all the popular distros and some of the less popular and debians philosophy rocks
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00:14<newsense>best distro in my eyes
00:14<Tsuki>I'm really new to Linux. Only tried Ubuntu and a really old version of Red Hat
00:14<digerati>open up whichever computer you're on now, and open up your older one. Put the hd from the old one in the good one, and set the good hd aside. Now put the debian install cd in the good computer with the old hd and at the installation prompt type "install -486 kernel"
00:14-!-emonge [~emonge@] has quit [Quit: emonge]
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00:15<newsense>my first ever computer was a 486 redhat box with no gui
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00:15<Tsuki>Well, if it fails to detect network hardware, sure, I'll give that a last ditch shot
00:15-!-vortex [] has joined #debian
00:15<digerati>let that installer run. get xfce or fluxbox instead of kde or gnome. when its done, put the hd back in your old computer
00:15<qq_> get xfce
00:16<xplicit>jesus how big is lenny, apt-get dist-update is taking so long
00:16<Tsuki>I THINK we used Gnome in an even older Pentium at one point
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00:16<digerati>xplicit: its upgrading every package in your system, so you can expect a couple gigabytes for the upgrade.
00:17<newsense>i used gnome way back on a sys with like 32 mg ran i486
00:17<Tsuki>How much space do I need? Is a 4GB adequate?
00:17<qq_>1-2 GB ?
00:17<digerati>I'm running a system on 4 GB now
00:17<digerati>not this one
00:17<Tsuki>I wanted to save the 20GB HD for files
00:18<newsense>i got 10 gig and thats overkill
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00:18<digerati>anyone got ideas for my wireless problem? I think I'm having dhcp issues getting an address for the laptop.
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00:18<xplicit>digerati: reset the router?
00:19-!-FoxM [~foxm@] has left #debian [Kopete 0.12.7 :]
00:19<Tsuki>Set a static IP
00:19<xplicit>or that as well
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00:19<digerati>will static IP work with a dhcp router?
00:19<digerati>ok i'll try that give me a couple min.
00:19<xplicit>however you might run into another machine trying to take that network address which is not a big deal
00:20<xplicit>just make sure its within the dhcp scope
00:20<newsense>use an ip out of the dhcp pool
00:20<digerati>its a small network so I know what I can use.
00:20<xplicit>netsh reset firewall =p
00:21<digerati>can I do it with "ifconfig wlan0 up netmask"?
00:21<xplicit>should be wiconfig i believe but not sure
00:22<xplicit>or iwconfig**
00:22<amphi>digerati: you'll wamt to set the default route also
00:22<Tsuki>Sofar so good on the network side of trhings oddly enough
00:23<digerati>i thought that only handles the wireless stuff and needs to be used in conjunction with ifconfig for TCP/IP stuff
00:23<amphi>digerati: right
00:23<digerati>how do i set the default route?
00:23<Tsuki>Hey, the network install may just work
00:23<amphi>digerati: route add default gw <router_ip>
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00:24<digerati>amphi i bet that's what I"m missing
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00:24<amphi>digerati: you should able to ping the router without that
00:24-!-Steven-M [~Minerva@] has joined #debian
00:24<amphi>but nothing beyond
00:25<digerati>"SIOCADDRT: Network is unreachable" when trying route add default gw
00:26<amphi>is the iface up?
00:26<digerati>lemme check
00:26<Steven-M>hi all
00:27<digerati>"ifconfig wlan0" does NOT show UP, but "ifup wlan0" gives wlan0 already configured
00:27<xplicit>hi steven
00:27<digerati>I'll try taking it down and back up
00:27<amphi>digerati: do ifdown wlan0 for now
00:28<digerati>ok I got it to show UP under ifconfig
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00:28<digerati>now I'll try the route thing
00:28<amphi>digerati: now you should be able to ping the router
00:28<amphi>before adding the default route
00:29<Tsuki>I hate everytime it brings me back to the blue screen. Makes me think of the BSOD and makes me nervous
00:30<Steven-M>I'm trying to configure a MacOS X client to connect to my linix ssh server. I need to ask some questions about sshd defaults. Who can help me?
00:30<digerati>"network is unreachable" on both "ping" and "route add default....
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00:30<Steven-M>hi xplicit
00:31<digerati>"route -n" gives an empty table if that helps
00:32<digerati>steven-m: I've only used ssh a little, but i can try
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00:36<digerati>"ifconfig" shows UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST, but there is no IP listed.
00:36<Steven-M>digerati: oh, I think I've discovered the problem with using the app
00:37<Tsuki>Now, while I cross my fingers and wait does anyone has experience installing Apache in Debian or is it an add on I can download during the main isntall or what?
00:38<digerati>tsuki: if you can get internet it should be something like "aptitude install apache"
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00:38<Tsuki>Mkay. because all I really want this machient o do is run a PHP server for me. :P
00:38<digerati>debian's package handling system is great.
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00:39<Steven-M>digerati: nevermind :)
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00:42-!-mode/#debian [+l 335] by debhelper
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00:42<amphi>digerati: give the interface an ip address
00:42-!-warp10 [] has joined #debian
00:42<Tsuki>What is LVM? It's working on doing the disc partion now
00:43<dpkg>somebody said lvm was at, Logical Volume Manager for Linux, or ask me about <lvm_tutorial>, or extremely sexy. almost as sexy as Theo, or and, or <lvm removedisk>
00:43-!-AbsintheSyringe2 [~havoc@] has joined #debian
00:43<Tsuki>Would you recommend LVM for a 486?
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00:45<xplicit>what's keymap and which option should i use for it after updating to lenny?
00:45-!-sutula [] has joined #debian
00:45<xplicit>i assume its the map of my keys on my keyboard
00:47<Tsuki>Hrm. I guess I don't need LVM because I don't plan on resizing my partitions?
00:47<dpkg>To change your console keymap, run "dpkg-reconfigure console-data". To change your X keymap, read "man xmodmap", or ask me about <set up x> or <drxx> or use kcontrol, gnome-control-center or similar. For setting up X keymaps, also check out xkeycaps and xev, or ask me about <multimedia keys>. In console you can also use "loadkeys" for once-only/temporary adjustments.
00:48<xplicit>lol 330 updates
00:49-!-digerati [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:49<xplicit>what's NSS?
00:49<Tsuki>Urg. Okay, how much space should I give Debian for a bare bones install?
00:50<Tsuki>Is 2gb sufficient?
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00:50<xplicit>i would assume but im also the wrong person to ask
00:51-!-qq_ is now known as from_ch
00:51<xplicit>windows xp is ~3gigs and debian barebone is way smaller
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00:52<blarson>Tsuki: 1g is enough with no X.
00:53<blarson>I couldn't install sarge on a 420 meg disk.
00:54<Tsuki>Is there any reason I would want X?
00:54<blarson>Some people like using windows rather than terminal emulators only.
00:55<Tsuki>Oh. We dont' need no stinking GUI!
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00:56<xplicit>alright time to reboot and hope all went well
00:56<Nemoder>I have sarge installed on a p200, it's only using 378M
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00:58<from_ch> I have sid installed on a p200
00:58<synz>I have bo installed on a 386DX
00:58-!-digerati [] has joined #debian
00:58<blarson>Nemoder: The system I couldn't install in 420M was a sparc, which is a bit less space efficent than i386.
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00:59<Tsuki>So, 1gb or 2gb for the OS partition?
00:59<Nemoder>well I didn't use tasksel either, and pulled out all the docs and stuff
00:59<Nemoder>Tsuki: what are you using the machine for?
00:59<digerati>tsuki:i'd go with 2
00:59<digerati>at least
00:59<Tsuki>PHP Server
00:59<Nemoder>then ya you'll want 2 at least
01:00<Tsuki>Even for a personl server with no outside access?
01:00<Nemoder>if you plan to install apache and php then ya
01:00<digerati>will u install a desktop environment and x server?
01:00<digerati>if you cut those out you might get away with 1
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01:01<xplicit>still wireless failed upon reboot, as well as most of the repositorys seem to be 404'ed
01:01<Tsuki>I plan on using her text only I think but I'll go with 2gb
01:01<Tsuki>That'll give me 2gb for files
01:02<xplicit>what should my sources.list look like with lenny? can someone copy paste for me?
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01:02<Nemoder>xplicit: pastebin what you currently have
01:02<from_ch>3 GB is better Tsuki
01:03<Tsuki>And why?
01:03<Guest200>how do i completly remove a program that i compiled and installed outside of a package manager?
01:03-!-emonge [~emonge@] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
01:03<xplicit># deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 r3 etch - Official i386 CD Binary-1 20080217-11:50]/ etch contrib main
01:03<xplicit># deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 r3 lenny - Official i386 CD Binary-1 20080217-11:50]/ etch contrib main
01:03<xplicit>deb lenny main
01:03<xplicit>deb-src lenny main
01:03<xplicit>deb lenny/updates main contrib
01:03-!-xplicit was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
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01:03<Nemoder>Guest200: pray it has an uninstall script
01:03<digerati>guest200: you hope it has make uninstall
01:04<from_ch>Tsuki: so have more room to do stuff , like installing
01:04<dpkg>Do not paste more than 3 lines to this channel. Instead, use: or or for pics. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste!
01:04<xplicit>now i know thanks =/
01:04<Tsuki>I guess 1GB is good enough for image and text files
01:05<xplicit>did you get that though nemoder?
01:05<from_ch>not for large install
01:05<Nemoder>xplicit: lenny doesn't get security updates, otherwise i think it's ok
01:05<synz>is there a torrent client for the CLI?
01:05<Nemoder>well, testing i should say, lenny will get them when it becomes stable
01:05<xplicit>hmm then why do i get 404'ed when doing a apt-get update
01:05<Tsuki>I meant left for files afterward
01:05<Tsuki>3gb for the install and 1gb left for a file partition
01:06<Nemoder>synz: bittorando has one
01:06<digerati>that means some of your sources.lst addresses are inaccessible xplicit
01:06<from_ch>Tsuki: don't forget the swap partition
01:06<Nemoder>synz: *bittornado
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01:06<Tsuki>It's a 4.3 GB hard drive.
01:06-!-mtnman [] has joined #debian
01:06<Tsuki>And auto did the swap partition already
01:07<from_ch>yes , if auto ...
01:07<from_ch>it took all disk ...
01:07<xplicit>oh i understand that, but why would they 404 if they are right?
01:08<Guest200>i cant get my screenlets towork, i asked in here a while ago and someone told me a bug number but i dont' know how to fix it. it's becuse of compis, here's the thing
01:08<digerati>xplicit: can u access google on that computer?
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01:08<Nemoder>xplicit: pastebin the whole thing, and try commenting out the security line and then update
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01:08<Hideo>synz: try rtorrent
01:09<xplicit>sorry nemoder what do you mean by pastebin?
01:10<dpkg>Do not paste more than 3 lines to this channel. Instead, use: or or for pics. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste!
01:10<Nemoder>xplicit: those paste websites
01:10<xplicit>oh gotchya
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01:11<blarson>Nemoder: there is a testing security team, but they don't find out about bugs until public, and frequently just wait for the sid version.
01:11<Tsuki>I'm getting an odd WARNING message.
01:11<Nemoder>blarson: but there is no security repository for lenny is there?
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01:12<Tsuki>File system is reporting the free space as 1394614304 clusters, no 1052197 clusters. Warning! Ignore / Cancel <Go Back>
01:13<digerati> < my sources.list for sid
01:13<xplicit>that's the repositorys being 404'ed after i commented out the security ones
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01:13<Nemoder>xplicit: paste your entire sources.list there
01:14<digerati>xplicit: why are you using
01:14<xplicit>idk tbh
01:15<digerati>xplicit: that repo is most likely not compatible with lenny, that's throwing the errors.
01:15<Nemoder>xplicit: yes, comment out the unoffcial source, if you want contrib and non-free add them to line 6
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01:17<digerati>im still having wireless problems. I can see networks with iwlist wlan0 scan, but I can't ping anything.
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01:20<blarson>Nemoder: yes, there is a testing security repository.
01:21<path>is out there any reportbug on GTK ?
01:21<Nemoder>blarson: oh, didn't know sorry
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01:22<blarson>Nemoder: deb testing/updates main
01:22<kingsley>How can one find out what's corrupting a certain ext2 file system?
01:24<qq>fsck.ext2 /dev/dhxx
01:25<qq> fsck.ext2 --help
01:25<Tsuki>Okay, so I've got a 190MB Swap, 3GB Primary and 995MB File partition. Seem good?
01:26<qq> File partition means ?
01:26<kingsley>qq: I find myself wondering how fsck.ext2 would reveal the corrupter. It seems to me that fsck.ext2 would just fix the corruption until the next time it happens, which, in my case, is all too frequently.
01:26<Tsuki>Well, partiion for file storage
01:26<xplicit>alright and last but not least i still cannot get my wireless working, upon boot it shows the bcm driver not loading.
01:26<Tsuki>I plan on using it jus to store files ndn ot install anything
01:27<qq>ok , than
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01:29<Tsuki>Is a 20GB HD enough for a dual boot of XP Pro and Linux?
01:29<eljefe>Why does my DNS fail, constantly? I am using OpenDNS on my router, and my Lenny gets its IP and DNS from that. When I try to visit, I OFTEN get or or occasionally the BBC, when I've not been to the in forever. Running 'host' works fine... but web browsing in Konqueror and Firefox both fail. Even eLinks fails to pull up the correct page. Why is this? Its been happening
01:29<eljefe>since... well a long time, back in myt Kubuntu days (2 years or so)
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01:30<eljefe>Tsuki: if you have no files, it may be. I have 20GB just for my linux OS, and a lot more for my /home/ partition to store personal files.
01:30<Tsuki>I have a 160GB drive I want to use for file storage and program installation
01:30<eljefe>Windows, with patches etc, can take up 10GB easily. Linux, being Free software, tends to get a lot loaded on to it for play. The space gets eaten quickly.
01:32<Tsuki>Well, my plan is to use the secondary drive for files and installing additional programs
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01:33<qq>kingsley: add that partition to fstab , so will be checked each ~30 mounts
01:33<eljefe>Tsuki: one thing i learned is that you cannot share a partition between Win and Linux for /home/Tsuki and for C:\DocsumentsndSettings\Tsuki since they use different filesystems (NTFS or Fat32, vs Ext3 or ReiserFS) -- each OS wants its main partition to have the file permissions that the OS requires. You could put a seperate partition insiode of these tho.
01:34<Tsuki>I figured as much. Half and half, or something
01:34<eljefe>i would say, 10GB for Linux is nice, but 20 is great. 10 for Windows is small.
01:35<eljefe>My debian, for a few months now, has 4.7 GB in the OS partition, but i know I'll be testing more etc.
01:35<eljefe>but 10GB will take a wahile.
01:35<Tsuki>What about using the 20GB HD for installing Linux and dividing the 160GB drive up for a Windows partition? I'm just nervous because all my files are on the 160 drive
01:35<eljefe>maybe try 7GB and 13 for win?
01:35<eljefe>yeah that is nerve wracking.
01:35<eljefe>do you 'know' linux, Tsuki?
01:36<eljefe>like, which apps you like etc?
01:37<xplicit>why did debian just go retarded on me all the sudden? Now my root password is not working. Even get an error running from root terminal opening up network-admin
01:37<Tsuki>I'm really really really new to Linux
01:37<xplicit><-- same here
01:38<xplicit>but no time like the present to learn
01:38<Tsuki>I've tried Ubuntu and an OLD version of Red Hat running with Gnome on an even older Pentium
01:38<eljefe>If you know what you like, the root (/ aka 'C:\') can stay kinda small. But if you don't know and are new, you might start becoming interested in XFCE, then Gnome, but still keep KDE because its the best ;) but all of those will require space.
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01:38<xplicit>i've tried ubuntu which i liked alot, redhat, fedora, slack, and mandrake
01:38<xplicit>when i say tried i mean used a live distro
01:39<eljefe>sure, that works :)]
01:39<xplicit>i've installed fedora, slacks, and ubuntu at one point though
01:39<xplicit>i actually like slacks, and ubuntu
01:39<Tsuki>I'm interested in Fedora and Ubuntu. I've never tried Debian but it seems small enough for my server
01:39<xplicit>but i was told if i really wanted to learn then go debian or gentoo
01:39<Tsuki>I know what programs I want to use, mainly, but they're Windows programs. Like Office 2007
01:40<Tsuki>Now Firefox I know works. I HATE IE
01:40<eljefe>I gotta say, Ubuntu is slick. But (1) I am a KDE guy, and Kubuntu isn't so grand, and (2) Debian is where it is at, it really has a lot more to offer IMHO. More to learn if you want, but you don't need to if you don't want to.
01:40<xplicit>pidgin , openoffice
01:40<xplicit>pidgin pwns trillian
01:40<Tsuki>I've tried Open Office
01:40<eljefe>Yeah... not so much of the MSOffice, especially 2007
01:40<xplicit>openoffice is eh alright but it works
01:40<Tsuki>I use Office for school
01:40<Tsuki>And database design
01:41<qq>Tsuki: are you sure that your 160GB drive is recognized by that old Pentium machine ?
01:41<xplicit>learn sql injections if you are going database design ;)
01:41<Tsuki>I'm not using the 160 in my old Pentium
01:41<eljefe>yes, it does. But i've never really trusted MSOffice with my data as it is... so for me the change was very worth it.
01:41<Tsuki>I'm using it in my P4
01:41<eljefe>Tsuki: you're installing Debian on a Pentium? like, P1?
01:41<Tsuki>Yes, Pentium MMX chip
01:42<eljefe>yeah. laptop? :)
01:42-!-eisen_ [] has joined #debian
01:43<Tsuki>Old desktop
01:43<Tsuki>64mf of ram
01:43<qq>compaq ?
01:43-!-synz [~kteague@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
01:44<eljefe>I've got a few of those around, they're not all that great... It'll work, but you *have* to lay off the heavier/larger applications (OpenOffice, Kontact) and desktops.(Gnome, KDE). I'd look into e16 or e17, or XFCE for the desktop. Apps, try Gnumeric (spreadsheet) or Abiword (writing). Really, look into DSL.
01:44<eljefe>sorry, I have a few old laptops, not Optiplexes.
01:44<eljefe>DSL is small, quick, made for older comps. Debian-based but kinda f'ed up also..
01:45<eljefe>Or AntiX Mepis
01:45<Tsuki>Well, as I said as far as the P1 goes it's just for a PHP/mySQL testbed server
01:46<Tsuki>Sofar Debian is installing via network kindly
01:46<Tsuki>It just had a hard time with the DVDrom I crammed in it
01:46<eljefe>ah, sorry. I was thinking test desktop :)
01:46-!-tatotat [~tato@] has joined #debian
01:46<Tsuki>I have a laptop I'm going to try a dual or tri boot with and prolly a dual boot with my desktop
01:47<qq>on my compaq @200 , 250 MB ram , 6 GB hard run sid , + rt kernel , icewm
01:47<xplicit>alright fella's im off for the night
01:48<eljefe>so i have old laptops -- what is a good network backup? just write to a USB drive -- over USB1?
01:48<xplicit>thanks for the help i'll need more tomorrow im sure =p
01:48<Tsuki>My P1 is so old it has no USB ports
01:48<eljefe>yeah myne has no rj45 ethernet :(
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01:48<eljefe>i'd have to run a pcmcia card
01:48<eljefe>but usb :)
01:49<Tsuki>I have a card in mine. PCI card. Thankfully it's not a laptop
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01:49<eljefe>i wonder if the usb/network is a viable option?
01:49<eljefe>i don't see why not
01:49<eljefe>ise sshfs?
01:50<Tsuki>63% through the base system. Woohoo
01:50<eljefe>whats the php code for?
01:50<eljefe>nice. lenny testing, or etch stable?
01:50-!-bayar [~bayar@] has joined #debian
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01:51<Tsuki>for me?
01:51<eljefe>Tsuki are you installing Debian 3.1 or 4.0?
01:51<Tsuki>Uh, I actually don't know
01:51<Tsuki>I think 4.0 but I could be wrong. It downloaded it
01:52<eljefe>was it called Debian Stable (3.1, Etch) or Debian Lenny (Testing, 4.0, beta2) ?
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01:52<Tsuki>Never said. :P Or so I didn't see
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01:52<eljefe>the 4.0 isn't out yet, but i run its applications (a lot of people do)
01:53<Tsuki>Might've grabed 3.1
01:53<eljefe>do you know the debian heirarchy ?
01:53<qq> the 4.0 isn't out yet ?/
01:53<qq> 4.0 is etch
01:53<EmleyMoor>4.0 has been out for some time
01:54<eljefe>Etch is the code name for the current stable Debian release, version 4.0
01:54<eljefe>my bad!
01:54<eljefe>so what is Lenny?
01:54<Hideo>will be
01:54<eljefe>thank youse
01:55-!-TiMiDo [] has joined #debian
01:55<TiMiDo>anyone in here?
01:55<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. when I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, or if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask (ask the whole channel!). We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer, ask later or ask
01:55-!-synz [syntax@faeroes.freeshell.ORG] has joined #debian
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01:56<synz>haha, I'm downloading binaries from usenet faster than they can be written to my poor hard disk
01:56-!-AlphaTwin [] has joined #debian
01:58<eljefe>Tsuki: how is it coming?
01:58<eljefe>synz: what happens? does the ram fill up, or just pause on the DL?
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01:59<Tsuki>Looks like the core is done, now to select packages
01:59<eljefe>Tsuki: <X> Desktop == gnome FYI
01:59<Tsuki>Should I go with X or something else?
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02:00<EmleyMoor>They're all X - the default is gnome
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02:04<Tsuki>Do I tell it that it's a web server?
02:04-!-MoDaX [] has quit []
02:05<Tsuki>Not a file server, right?
02:06<eljefe>svn? i thing webserver...
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02:08<Tsuki>I thinks o too
02:08<Tsuki>5m of downloads
02:08<Tsuki>I'm starting to like Debian for it's easy install
02:08<Tsuki>At least on this freakishly old system
02:12-!-tenemag [] has joined #debian
02:12<path>easy is not the proper word, I'd say simple && effective :)
02:12-!-tenemag is now known as ryana
02:13<ryana>hi room
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02:14<Tsuki>Hi Ryana
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02:14<eljefe>hey ryana
02:14<ryana>had a quick question... I have a Proxim Cardbus card (WiFi 54G) and i'm trying to get it to work with the latest netinst of debian... the internal wifi on this laptop works fine, and the proxim card afaik is being recognized, but I just can't seem to get it recognized in X any ideas?
02:16-!-snogglethorpe [] has joined #debian
02:16<qq>(PowerBook 3400)cpu: 603ev; clock: 200.0MHz;bogomips: 19.96;2.6.24-1-powerpc-miboot
02:17<ryana>Hm it doesn't show up under ifconfig either 0_o
02:17<eljefe>ryana have you modprobed the card? or does it need madwifi or ndswrapper?
02:18<eljefe>recognized doesn't always mean it works :( yet
02:18<ryana>not sure... I know debian recognizes the internal card fine, but the cardbus "Orinico" card just sits there and blinks
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02:19<eljefe>This is not an "orinoco" card in the traditional sense. You need to use
02:19<eljefe>the madwifi driver found at
02:19<eljefe>(from that page)
02:20-!-fxiny [] has joined #debian
02:20<ryana>so i'm guessing apt-get madwifi?
02:20<eljefe>i think so, to start with.. .can you use the working internal wifi to browse and read more on it?
02:21-!-path [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
02:21<ryana>ya, but it's slow (802.11b)
02:22<eljefe>i just popped in a Lenny Beta2 install CD and Windows (which is being whiped) started an installer for Debian
02:22<ryana>they now have a windows installer?
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02:22<eljefe>i guess
02:22<eljefe>maybe they're using Ubuntu's?
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02:23<ryana>lol most likely... hey, pretty soon more people will be turned away from windows with the fact that the installer will be easy to use eventually lol
02:23<eljefe>it even gives the three big DEs, KDE Gnome XFCE, in this Windows based instraller
02:23<gsimmons>!tell ryana -about madwifi-install
02:24<eljefe>wow i almost want to install it so he can go back to windows and see how bad it is
02:24<eljefe>but nah, the full whipe out will do :)
02:24<Tsuki>I need to get an external HD. I h aven't wiped my system in about a year
02:24<Tsuki>And it's been ages since I did a complete wipe
02:24<eljefe>linux or windows?
02:24<eljefe>linux doesn't need it nearly in the same way.
02:25<ryana>i just wiped 3 windows machines here... haven't had to wipe a linux machine in umm 2 years?
02:25<eljefe>i know, its a major hassle
02:26<Tsuki>GRUB or LILO Boot loader? Or none?
02:26<Tsuki>I try to do a Windows wipe every 6-12ms
02:26<eljefe>this is great, I've been away from my comp for a while, and ts a great evening to sit and geek out, do an install with others that are installing also
02:27<eljefe>that too
02:27<eljefe>is there any way to have a graphical bootup? some sort of splash?
02:28<qq>yes , how i dinno
02:28<synz>eljefe, check your boot loader
02:28<qq> dunno*
02:28<ryana>i just wiped 3 windows machines here... haven't had to wipe a linux machine in umm 2 years?
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02:28<eljefe>for the kerner loading, synz?
02:29<ryana>whoops srry
02:29<synz>eljefe, yes
02:29<eljefe>hm... cool thanks!
02:29-!-AlphaTwin [] has joined #debian
02:29<synz>if you want to bypass seeing those important boot msgs
02:29<Tsuki>I want to kiss the person who made Debian right now and made it Network installable
02:29<Tsuki>I'm almost done installing it. o.O
02:29<eljefe>well, this setup is for a friend's brother, i don';t know if he cares :(
02:30<eljefe>!Ian Murdock
02:30<dpkg>ian murdock is probably the creator of debian, who then went on to create Progeny and now is employed by Sun Microsystems
02:30<ryana>wait when editing the sources for apt, nonfree has no dash between non and free right?
02:30<ryana>non-free or nonfree
02:30<synz>eljefe, what if said friends brother calls you up with a boot problem?
02:30<ryana>i forget off the top of my head
02:30<eljefe>me also, had to check
02:30<ryana>aight thanks lol
02:31<synz>I can't seem to get curl to download faster than 10M from :-(
02:31<synz>I was getting close to 60M from my usenet provider :-(
02:31<Tsuki>Ye gods I'm tired. But the fact that it's actualled INSTALLING makes this all worthwhile
02:31<ryana>Grrr... APT is being finiky with me
02:32<synz>I wonder if curl is reporting MB or Mb/sec
02:32<ryana>Package madwifi-tools is not available, but is referred to by another package.
02:32<ryana>This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
02:32<ryana>is only available from another source
02:32<eljefe>192 of RAM, hgow much SWAP to create?
02:32<Tsuki>YES! Rebooting into the new system!
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02:32<synz>eljefe, 2x size of your physical ram
02:32<eljefe>ryana either apt-get update or you need to add to your sources
02:32<synz>ryana: go to and try to find the one you need
02:33<eljefe>i don't buy it... but ok, ok....
02:33-!-snogglethorpe [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:34<gsimmons>ryana: You need to add both non-free and contrib sources (as dpkg previously indicated).
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02:34<Tsuki>Uh... I'm confused. It's asking me for a login for my network. Huh?
02:35<ryana>hmph, source is listed in my cache... i'm tempted to just install from source... smart idea or not? lol
02:35<EmleyMoor>Tsuki: What exactly does it say?
02:35<ryana>it says that the package madwifi-install doesn't exist
02:35<Tsuki>Havenwood Login:
02:35<ryana>nor does madwifi-tools
02:36<EmleyMoor>Tsuki: enter your username
02:36<Tsuki>Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 Havenwood tty1
02:36-!-snogglethorpe [] has joined #debian
02:36<eljefe>Tsuki: thats the name tyhat you gave the computer :)
02:36-!-devil [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:36<synz>Tsuki, that's a login to your local terminal
02:36<gsimmons>ryana: Again, you need to add contrib sources, as well as non-free, to your sources.list. "madwifi-install" is the name of a dpkg factoid, and not a package.
02:36<Tsuki>USername for WHAT? OH
02:36<Tsuki>How the HELL did I? Gah, confused
02:36<Tsuki>I dont' remember mnaming it
02:36<Tsuki>It's been a long night
02:37<EmleyMoor>It's a standard question in the installer
02:37<synz>*ix was designed from the ground up as a multiuser, multitasking OS
02:37<Tsuki>Uh... it's not recognizing my login?
02:38<eljefe>did it ask you for a user?
02:38<ryana>it shows the package
02:38<ryana>but it says that it's still missing when i apt-get it
02:38<synz>ryana: read what gsimmons is saying
02:38<Tsuki>Yeah. And I told it and I'm typing that and the password I gave it. Wait, no I'm not. one sec. It HAS been a long night
02:38<EmleyMoor>Tsuki: Can you remember setting a root password?
02:38<eljefe>Tsuki: ouch
02:38<ryana><== blind at times
02:38<synz>Tsuki, do you remember sticking the installation CD in the drive?
02:38<ryana>Thanks, I forgot the nonfree contrib ones
02:38<Tsuki>There we go. I remember the root password just fine. I just used a diff password than I normally do
02:39-!-Neverb [neverb@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:39<Tsuki>I got it now. Logged into my user acc
02:39-!-fdasfdsa [] has joined #debian
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02:39<eljefe>Tsuki: adduser tsuki
02:39<Tsuki>So, now I have a lovely command prompt and no idea how to use it. Heh
02:39<eljefe>sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
02:39<ryana>and now it works lol
02:39<synz>Tsuki, that was my first impression with unixware many moons ago
02:40<eljefe>sudo apt-get install kdebase ;
02:40<synz>start with man man
02:40<Tsuki>So... how do I see if X runs on this thing or not?
02:40<synz>that's a great place to start
02:40<synz>type startx
02:40<ryana>curious, did they ever get compiz working with that ATI Card that was having issues?
02:40<Tsuki>God it's been a while. :P
02:40-!-mahesh [~mahi@] has joined #debian
02:41<Tsuki>-bash : startx: command not found
02:41<synz>downloading Debian DVD images in 8 mins each
02:41<eljefe>sudo apt-get install gdm
02:41<synz>Tsuki, so you don't have X installed
02:41<Tsuki>Got it. That's fine
02:41<eljefe>sudo apt-get install kdm
02:41<Tsuki>Just thought I'd see
02:41<synz>I'd start with man man
02:42<ryana>aight brb rebooting
02:42-!-ryana [] has quit [Quit: BitchX-1.1-final by panasync]
02:42<synz>why reboot?
02:42<Tsuki>Now the bigger question is how do I get the Apache server up and running on it and get PHP and mySQL running. Questions for tomorrow I'm thinking. I'm just happy that it's finally got an OS
02:42<synz>for the love of God, WHY REBOOT??
02:42<eljefe>Tsuki: apt-get install apache2
02:42<eljefe> b/etc/init.d/apache2 start
02:42<eljefe>eh no 'b'
02:43<mahesh>how can give i give I/O permissions(only) using sudo ?
02:43<eljefe>i like.. .not sure tho
02:43<synz>I/O permission?
02:43<synz>that's rather vague
02:43<eljefe>so, everyone else is jailed to RAM?
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02:44<eljefe>mahesh: ^^
02:44<Tsuki>You guys are awesome beyond awesomeness
02:44<synz>we know
02:44<qq>Tsuki: heh
02:44<Tsuki>It's installing Apache now
02:44<mahesh>i want to run svagalib programs
02:44<eljefe>i'm usually the one asking :)
02:44<Tsuki>Had to login as root of course
02:45-!-freealan [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
02:45<eljefe>or, as a regular user, run 'su -'
02:45<Tsuki>Now if I log out of root does it keep it's processes going?
02:45-!-fly [~fly@] has joined #debian
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02:45<eljefe>or install sudo, then (as root) edit the file /etc/sudoers to allow your own user to use 'sudo apt-get install ...'
02:45<Tsuki>What's /etc/?
02:46<eljefe>no, but if you're at a command prompt its done
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02:46<eljefe>well if you started apache, yes
02:46<Tsuki>I am
02:46<Tsuki>Well, haven't started apache. Want to make sure I start it correctly
02:46<eljefe> /etc/... is a folder; / is like C:\ so /etc/ is like C:\etc\
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02:46<mahesh>its shows svgalib: Cannot get I/O permissions.
02:46<ryana>w00t it worked!
02:47<eljefe>ryana what did ya do?
02:47<ryana>it was the lack of "contrib" in my apt sources
02:47-!-Neverb [~neverb@] has joined #debian
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02:47<ryana>it found the packages, after rebooting, boom, it showed up :) even accepted the passphrase rather than the hex key
02:47<Tsuki>It said it used since it couldn't find the server name?
02:48<ryana>thanks again :)
02:48<eljefe>ryana you likely don't need a reboot
02:48<synz> /etc is your config file directory
02:48<synz>it also contains scripts
02:48<eljefe>Tsuki what said that?
02:48<ryana>eljefe the card was acting funny 0_o
02:48<Tsuki>When I tried to start Apache2
02:48<eljefe>easier :)
02:48<ryana>i had unplugged it, and the lights stopped bliking when i put it back in lol
02:48<EmleyMoor>You generally only need a reboot after installing a kernel, or if something sticks in a state that only a reboot will fix - USB sometimes does that on mine
02:48<eljefe>Tsuki: that should be ok
02:49<Tsuki>When I try to navigate to it from my desktop it can't find it. Is there just nothing there to "find"?
02:49<ryana>so heres a question... how do I get it so my damn touchpad stops making my cursor jump every time my wrist or thumb accidently brushes it lol
02:49<synz>Tsuki, define "it"
02:49<ryana>u know, the whole "tap to click" thing
02:49<eljefe>Tsuki: you will create/edit you webserver setups in /etc/apache2/sites-available/000-default
02:50<Tsuki>So the IP won't be able to bring up anything yet?
02:50<synz>ryana, there's a touchpad util that lets you set options
02:50<eljefe>Tsuki in there change the parts to that computer's IP Address
02:51<Tsuki>Okay. Tomorrow. I need sleep. I"ve got work in 11 hours. Bleargh. I'm just glad it's UP!
02:51<Tsuki>I wish I'd tried Debian sooner
02:51<synz>welcome to Debian
02:51<eljefe>to edit files, first install sometihing easy lik e'apt-get install nano' then run 'nano /etc/apache2/sites-available/000-default
02:51<eljefe>aiight have a good one. lots to learn still :)
02:52<ryana>i've been googling for it but everything comes up saying to use the windows drivers somehow lol
02:52<Tsuki>Okay. I know I"m going to learn a freaking ton over the next few weeks
02:52<ryana>i'm using gnome if it helps
02:52<Tsuki>I used to use DOS like a pro though, sI know I can learn Linux
02:52<eljefe>ryana thats great -- what happens if you unplug it and plug it in -- does it get its IP back?
02:52-!-mahesh [~mahi@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
02:52<ryana>eljefe hmm good point... lemme try brb lol
02:52<Tsuki>Also, one last question, does Debian support multiple "screens"?
02:52-!-colby [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:53<eljefe>as in, monitors? or the click-app that changes the desktops?
02:53<Tsuki>One the RH server my ex had you could press a key combo and switch between different screens or desktops?
02:53<Tsuki>Including into X, which that had installed
02:53<EmleyMoor>Tsuki: Ah, yes, there are some set up as standard
02:53<Tsuki>Not that I need it for the server
02:53<synz>Tsuki, yes
02:53<synz>they're called VTs or Virtual Terminals
02:53<Tsuki>I forgot how to get to them. I want to have one showing me all the processes running
02:53<synz>you can even do it during the installation
02:53<ryana>hey anyone here?
02:53<synz>alt-F1 thru alt-F6
02:54<Tsuki>Ah, that's the name then
02:54<ryana>or is my connection gone lol
02:54<Tsuki>And how do I monitor processes? It's been a long time.
02:54<synz>ryana, we see you
02:54<ryana>sweet then
02:54<ryana>it worked :)
02:54<synz>Tsuki, define "monitor"
02:54<eljefe>or KDE or Gnome have 'pages' that show different vistual desktop apps....
02:54<eljefe>ryana thats grand
02:54<Tsuki>Uh, let me think... Something about tree.. It's been a few years
02:54<synz>Tsuki, top?
02:55<Tsuki>It was a table of processes and showed the users, time, mem usage, things like that/\
02:55<Tsuki>Top may have been it
02:55<synz>yeah, top
02:55<eljefe>sure Tsuki either 'top' in aterminal, or 'htop' (or in KDE, [alt][esc] )
02:55-!-Atomo64 [~Atomo64@] has quit [Quit: 'night all]
02:55<synz>Tsuki, in regards to your question about logging off while a program is executed
02:55<Tsuki>Awesome. I'm in heaven.
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02:56<Tsuki>Yes, Synz?
02:56<synz>it depends on if the program can be forked off as a daemon or if you use the "screen" utility
02:56<eljefe>go to bed then
02:56-!-MoDaX [] has joined #debian
02:56<Tsuki>Screen utility?
02:56<synz>forked off to the background as a daemon
02:56<dpkg>[screen] allows you to have n terminals and easily switch between them, add keybindings, has its own scrollback and copy/paste and lets you resume all your sessions if your terminal dies or you get disconnected or or at or aptitude install screen
02:57<synz>think of it as running a terminal within a VT
02:57<Tsuki>Ah. I don't mind the virtual terminals. I'm rather fond of them
02:57<ryana>where do I find xorg.conf again?
02:57<synz>you can then fork that terminal session off to the background, logoff, go somewhere else, login, and bring it back to the foreground
02:57<ryana>i need to modify it apparently to get the touchpad working ll
02:58<synz>Tsuki, the advantage of screen is it allows you to fork the terminal to the background and logoff
02:58<synz>ryana, /etc/X11
02:58<eljefe>ryana /etc/X11/xorg.conf
02:58<Tsuki>Fair enough. I'll consider it.
02:58<ryana>i thought it was /etc/conf.d/xorg.conf but that's gentoo i beleive
02:58<ryana>ah aight
02:58<qq>nano /etc/conf.d/xorg.conf
02:59<qq>install nano is needed
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02:59<qq>and run that as root , sure
02:59<Tsuki>I've learned a lot tonight. That makes me happy. I really appreciate how patient everyone has been with me as I take my tentative steps into Linux. Well, more like jumping in headlong, but still...
02:59<synz>the fun has just begun
02:59<eljefe>Tsuki the best part is people willing to log in and ask
03:00<synz>wait till you try to compile your own kernel... you'll be ripping your hair out
03:00<ryana>Tsuki: linux is fun... it requires patience at times, but it's WELL worth it
03:00<Tsuki>Well, personally, I will try to find my answer on Google first, but having live people who've done it time and again to talk to is so much nicer
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03:00<Tsuki>I'm excited and scared silly at the same time
03:01<synz>haha, it's only your box you'll be breaking :-)
03:01<synz>be scared when it's someone elses
03:02<eljefe>no kidding
03:02<ryana>the *only* time i've ever had anything break with linux was when i messed around with SID lol
03:02<Tsuki>Heh. Thanks. :P
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03:03<Tsuki>Anyway, I'm going to get some sleep and rejoice at the fact that AIVAS lives!
03:03<ryana>I learned.... Don't mess with sid on a computer that you have important data on heh... i learned that really fast when it couldn't boot again
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03:03<eljefe>oh no
03:03<ryana>ON an encrypted partition too
03:03<synz>oh, sid as in unstable
03:03<ryana>heh (10 page term paper)
03:03<eljefe>yeah that's my recent thoughts on encryption -- you can lose your own data
03:04<eljefe>i've been recovering a lot of hard drives lately, whats the chance i could recover anything from a failed encrypted drive???
03:04<synz>you can still get the data off if you can't get it to boot from hard disk
03:04<Tsuki>Night all
03:04-!-Tsuki is now known as TsukiGone
03:05<synz>put in the installation cd, boot rescue, mount the partition, mount the partition of a spare drive, copy data
03:05<ryana>apparently i got an unstable version of something (a module i think) which caused my kernel to panic the minute grub booted it... i took the drive out, put it into another linux machine, tried pulling the encrypted date, and *nothing* lol
03:05-!-TsukiGone is now known as Tsuki-ZzZz
03:05<synz>oh, the data was encrypted
03:05<eljefe>yeah... ouch
03:05<ryana>yeaa lol
03:05<synz>yeah, don't screw around with encrypting data on unstable
03:05<ryana>yea lol i learned fast lol
03:05<synz>not important unrecoverable data anyways
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03:07<ryana>there's awlays some cool new stuff in sid... but not always worth having to reinstall lol
03:07<eljefe>what is the kernel name, for apt-get install kernel-686-2.6.25 ?
03:08<ryana>is that the latest kernel?
03:08<synz>apt-cache search for it
03:08<eljefe>too many results
03:08<ryana>what kernel would u say would be best for a AMD Semperon laptop
03:08<synz>a custom kernel
03:08<qq>uname -r
03:09<ryana>last time i did a custom kernel was gentoo lol
03:09<ryana>same method in debian?
03:09<eljefe>i've done one, wasn't worth it
03:09<synz>well, there's the traditional method or the Debian Way (TM)
03:09<ryana>i'm too afraid i'll break the wonderful wifi that is working lol
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03:09<ryana>hahaha what's the Debian Way?
03:10<qq> Debian Way!
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03:10<eljefe>ryana at booot you should still be able to ick an older kernel
03:10-!-[[cwe_qii_liburand]] [~cwe_qii_l@] has joined #debian
03:10<ryana>if it involves "sid"... *hides* jkjk
03:10<ryana>wait older kernel??
03:10<synz>using kernel-package to configure and build your custom kernel as a .deb package. in the end, you dpkg -i blah it
03:10<eljefe>well, the current 'perfectly working' kernel
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03:11<ryana>is it worth it though do you think in the end?
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03:11<synz>I'd say yes to get a better understanding of the linux kernel
03:11<eljefe>i dunno, lots of work and knowledge to replace a perfectly working kernel? not sure.
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03:11<eljefe>that, yes.
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03:12<ryana>brb i think i need to restart X to get this touchpad thing working
03:12<synz>eljefe, you'll never have that knowledge if you never do it
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03:13<synz>and if you don't, you also will not know about the new features the kernel's provide
03:13<fxiny>what's wrong with encryption ? i have a full etch LUKS encrypted . cryptsetup can mount any encrypted partiton
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03:14<tenemag>aight back
03:14<tenemag>had to restart X so that the line I added to xorg.conf actually worked lol
03:14<tenemag>and now the touchpad is behaving :)
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03:15<fxiny>so recovering luks encrypoted data is the same as rercovering unencrypted data
03:15<fxiny>and btw it works pretty nice on etch . good performances
03:15<eljefe>synz i agree, its just not usually needed
03:16<synz>eljefe, it's not "needed" because the stock kernel that's provided to us with the distribution has nearly everything we need, either compiled into the kernel or compiled as a module
03:16<tenemag>Hm, any way i can enable the speedstep part of this laptop?
03:16<synz>but then there will be that one day when you buy that nifty new piece of hardware that isn't supported by your current kernel and you'll need to make your own
03:18<dpkg>[speedstep] the frequency scaling feature found on some Intel mobile processors. Ask me about {cpufreq}.
03:18<dpkg>cpufreq is, like, a patch ( to the 2.4.x kernels to support frequency scaling on mobile x86, PowerPC and ARM processors. It has been merged into the 2.6.x series. It provides a simple interface (/proc/cpufreq) through which userspace daemons like cpudynd (in the "cpudyn" package) can throttle processor speed to save power when the system is idle.
03:19<qq>synz: or having his own kernel "as you want " on a old hardware ...
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03:21<synz>qq: true
03:21<tenemag>anyone here know about "compiz"?
03:22<qq>as here a realtime 2.6.25 on @586
03:23-!-ao2 [~u@2001:1418:117::1] has joined #debian
03:24<synz>hey, it's the first IPv6 address I've ever saw being used
03:24<qq>wich one ?
03:25<tenemag>wait wtf IPv6 is being used?!?
03:25<tenemag>ao2 how?!?
03:25<synz>other countries have already adopted it
03:25<synz>america is behind thhe times
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03:25<ao2>DoD is pushing it, tho
03:25<synz>ao2: where are you located?
03:25<tenemag>why is the DoD pushing it i wonder lol
03:26<ao2>synz, Italy
03:26<ao2>generally we are behind the times too :)
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03:26<qq>ah >>> 2001:1418:117::1
03:26<synz>hey, we still got places that are limited to dialup
03:27<tenemag>i barely have 1Mbit DSL in the house i rent for school
03:27<synz>and others where we don't even have dialup... we have to rely on two tin cans connected to each other with string and we tap binary in to it
03:27<tenemag>right now though, i'm on my fiber line :-D
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03:27<tenemag>50/Mbit down 25/Mbit up
03:27<tenemag>though i feel bad because i waste half of it lmao
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03:27<tenemag>it's fast though lol
03:28<synz>I'm at my colocation provider right now downloading DVD images of various distros
03:28<tenemag>lol you're at the facility?
03:28<tenemag>i'm in my office lol
03:28<synz>small guest room
03:28<synz>sharing it with 3 japanese guys who are frantically trying to get something to work
03:29<tenemag>synz: how much do you pay for colo?
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03:29<synz>when I came in here, the room was empty but there was a box of fresh Roundtable Pizza and someone's laptop on the table
03:29<synz>I knew someone was going to have a long night here
03:29<synz>$1500/mo for 1GB/sec
03:29<synz>er, 1Gb/sec
03:29<tenemag>big difference
03:29<tenemag>but still
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03:30<tenemag>what do you do with your server?
03:30<synz>it's Hurricane Electric
03:30<synz>which server?
03:30<tenemag>the colo one
03:30<tenemag>is it for work? fun?
03:30<synz>we have multiple racks for our various customers
03:30<synz>they're all for work
03:30<tenemag>ah cool
03:31<tenemag>what do you do? webdesign i'm guessing? or just storage?
03:31<synz>fix computers and networks
03:31<tenemag>i do that out here in NJ
03:32<tenemag>actually about 3/4 of my servers were previously owned and operated by Lucent Technology Inc
03:32<tenemag>they went bankrupt, and threw *everything* out
03:32<tenemag>fiber, switches, servers etc
03:32<tenemag>so it was basically grab as much as you can in your car
03:32<tenemag>so i have a DS3 line, that runs between 2 floors... total of 50 feet
03:32<synz>this room is a sweatbox now
03:33<tenemag>just to say that I have a DS3 haha
03:33<tenemag>some of the stuff is for shits and giggles but it all works :)
03:33<qq>tenemag: for me too ;)
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03:34<tenemag>get some fiber out to NJ i'll patch you in on the optical splitter lmao
03:34<tenemag>it's gotta be single-mode duplex though lol
03:34<tenemag>rouglhy 2 bucks a foot lol
03:34<qq>i know
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03:37<tenemag>its funny because within a 5 mile radius of where I am, I have a Qwest facility, Level 3 facility the old lucent facility, ATT Labritories, Vonage, and Verizon, oh and Bell Labs too
03:37<tenemag>well 5-10 mile
03:37<synz>that's where all the fiber is planted
03:38<tenemag>hence why i can get 50 down for so cheap
03:38<tenemag>rougly 300/mo
03:38<tenemag>its because the area already is built up
03:38<tenemag>but yea
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03:40<tenemag>oh here's a question... I have 3 servers that currently have no purpose... one I built myself, the other two are HP Servers (both are P3 machines, both Dual Proc. approx 2GB ram)
03:40<tenemag>1.4 Pentium 3's
03:41<tenemag>the one i built myself is a Dual Xeon 2.8Ghz machine with 4 GB Ram
03:41<tenemag>and a 500GB drive
03:41<tenemag>well 4 500 GB drives once i buy the other 3
03:41<tenemag>all SATA
03:42<sxkorn>hi there, I've got a question, if can anybody help me
03:42<tenemag>i'm thinking of using *that* one as either a fileserver or I donno
03:42<tenemag>sxkorn: shoot
03:43-!-klh [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:43<sxkorn>is it possible to mount a directory in fstab to multiple directories, let's say in each user's home directory?
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03:44<synz>test that with one that's already mounted and it'll complain that it is so
03:44<sxkorn>so I guess I should write a line for every user
03:45<synz>what's the goal?
03:45<sxkorn>in a ftp server i want all the users to have access to one directory
03:46<sxkorn>in the case the root directory is the home of each user
03:46<synz>ok, that's different than mounting a single partition in multiple locations
03:46<qq>ftp remote directory ...
03:48<sxkorn>I'm afraid I don't understand... sorry
03:48<synz>sxkorn, that's an FTP configuration that you want
03:48-!-dc [~dc@] has joined #debian
03:48<synz>by default, if you install an FTP server on your box and login as a normal user, their default directory when they login is their home directory
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03:49<sxkorn>okay, so I shou find out how to put that directory in the ftp server configuration
03:49<synz>you shoudln't have to
03:49<synz>it's like that by default
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03:50<sxkorn>yes, but I want all the users, when they login, to have access to one directory outside their home
03:50<sxkorn>let's say /home/ftp
03:50<synz>I thought you said you wanted them to login to their home dir
03:50<synz>ok, that can be done
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03:56<lepito>anyone here
03:57<lepito>hello seanius
03:57<lepito>can you helpme please?
03:58<seanius>can you ask a relevant question?
03:58<lepito>no so relevant for you... but relevant for me
03:58<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. when I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, or if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask (ask the whole channel!). We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer, ask later or ask
03:58<seanius>^^ :)
03:59<sxkorn>synz: sorry for the delay, can you give me an ideea?
03:59<sxkorn>I'll search after that.... :)
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04:00<lepito>i have a problem with amsn ; i'm running debian version 4.0. when i try to install it , it tell me that need more packages, but i can't find it
04:02<seanius>lepito: install via apt-get?
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04:03<lepito>by synaptic
04:04<lepito>by apt-get this appear
04:04<lepito># apt-get install amsn
04:04<lepito>Leyendo lista de paquetes... Hecho
04:04<lepito>Creando árbol de dependencias... Hecho
04:04<lepito>amsn ya está en su versión más reciente.
04:04-!-lepito was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
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04:04<dpkg>Do not paste more than 3 lines to this channel. Instead, use: or or for pics. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste!
04:05<lepito>so sorry
04:05<eljefe>amsn ya está en su versión más reciente == most recent, i.e. its already installed.
04:05<lepito>no lo puedo instalar
04:05<lepito>viste lo que me aparecia?
04:05<eljefe>ya esta instalado
04:06<lepito>pero cuando lo hago correr se me cae
04:06<lepito>y no funciona
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04:06<eljefe>hm no se
04:06<lepito>me pide unos repositorios
04:06-!-valdyn [] has joined #debian
04:06<lepito>instale los dos primeros
04:06<lepito>pero el ultimo paguete no lo encuentro
04:06<eljefe>ya has hecho apt-get update
04:07<lepito>si te digo que instale linux hoy
04:07<lepito>no te enojas verdad?
04:07<eljefe>bien, pues: apt-get update && apt-get install amsn && apt-get install -f
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04:07<eljefe>no claro, pero no debemos hablar espanol aqui
04:07<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
04:08<lepito>te puedo enviar un privado
04:08<sxkorn>can anybody else help me? please....
04:08<eljefe>no, es la hora de dormir...
04:08<eljefe>good night all, buenas.
04:08<lepito>buenas jefe
04:09<eljefe>suerte, o manana
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04:11<Guest246>I insert an audio CD, double-click the new icon at the desktop, and nothing happens. I don't know what's happening
04:11<Guest246>at Gnome
04:12<synz>I don't think there's much to view on an audio CD
04:12<Guest246>But some program should be opened to play it
04:12<valdyn>Guest246: no
04:13<synz>GNU could work like that but wouldn't that be kinda evil to do it by default?
04:13<Guest246>No? What feedback gets the user then?
04:13<synz>try using xmms to play it
04:13<synz>or some other multimedia audio utility
04:14<Guest246>Which one is better for a user new to computers? It has to be localised in Spanish and integrate well with Gnome
04:14<synz>xmms kinda looks like winamp
04:15<Guest246>That's bad for a user new to computers...
04:15<synz>is it? how so?
04:15<Guest246>(because he/she hasn't used Windows before)
04:15<seanius>rhythmbox is fairly well gnome-integrated, i believe
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04:16<synz>Guest246, well, it's either going to be a graphical or command line tool. which do you think would be easier for a person new to computers?
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04:16<Guest246>synz, a graphical one with just the basic commands
04:17<Guest246>which doesn't givne any technical information about devices, plugins, folders, users, ...
04:17<synz>there are plenty to choose from, I don't know of their names off-hand though
04:17<Guest246>Ok, I'll try rhythmbox
04:17<Guest246>However, double-clicking the icon should be something better than just nothing
04:18<seanius>right click?
04:18<seanius>i thought that rhythmbox would automatically start playing it when you put it in, actually
04:19<Guest246>How strange that rhythmbox needs to install totem first... I want one player and I get two
04:19<valdyn>Guest246: it does not
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04:20<synz>sxkorn, it's really dependent upon the ftp server you're using and I have not done it in ages
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04:20<synz>I'd recommend reading the documentation for said ftp server
04:20<Guest246>apt-get install rhythmbox requires totem
04:20<sxkorn>okay, thanks
04:21<valdyn> libtotem-plparser10
04:21<valdyn>not totem
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04:23<synz>Guest246: cat /etc/debian_version
04:23<Guest246>then it's probably due to gstreamer...
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04:24<synz>that's what I thought
04:24<synz>it does require totem in lenny, not in etch
04:27<Guest246>How can I see its complete dependency tree? In other words: "why does rhythmbox finally require totem"
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04:27<synz>look on
04:29<seanius>probably a dependency on some meta-package, or maybe a recommends is bringing it in
04:29<Guest246>Mmm... rhythmbox doesn't apper under "sound" :-(
04:29<seanius>it seems that you can remove totem afterwards
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04:29<seanius>or at least on my lenny/sid system with rhythmbox and totem i can remove totem by itself
04:30<seanius>and it should show up in "sound and video" if you are using gnome (maybe you need to logout and login for the menu to update or soething, i don't know)
04:31<Guest246>Here I can only see 1 level of the dependency tree:
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04:31<Guest246>but not further levels down the tree
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04:32<Guest246>seanius, sorry, I meant it isn't listed here:
04:32<Guest246>seanius, instead, it's listed under "GNOME"
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04:38<Guest246>Isn't there some program to show go through the dependency graph of a package?
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04:40<seanius>Guest246: apt-cache --recurse depends <pkg> i believe
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04:41<seanius>maybe some variations of apt-cache dotty can generate a nice graphical rep, i dunno
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04:44<Guest246>seanius, that's very useful; thanks
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04:46<Guest246>There I can see that totem was installed just because gnome-volume-manager "recommended" it
04:46<Guest246>So "apt-get install" installs also the recommendations...?
04:47<Guest246>(likewise, gnome-volume-manager was recommendation of rhythmbox)
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04:50<Nemoder>if you don't want apt to pull in recommends then you might find it easier to use a front end and simply uncheck them before installing
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04:50<Nemoder>like dselect/aptitude
04:51<Guest246>aptitude and dselect are not "simple"...
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04:52<Guest246>Probably there's some switch for apt to not install recommendations
04:52<Guest246>Too bad that "man apt" is practically empty :-(
04:53<Guest246>at least in this computer, in Spanish
04:53<Nemoder>well if you want simple you can use synaptic in X
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04:59<Guest246>Nemoder, not on a computer which is currently thrashing due to lack of RAM+swap :-)
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05:05<enouf>Guest253: newer apt?
05:06<enouf>or Etch versions
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05:07<enouf>Guest253: ~$ cat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/98-recommends
05:07<Guest246>ok, I try
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05:08<enouf>wrong guest
05:08<mordy>my GNOME doesn't work - what do i do?
05:08<enouf>--purge remove it :-P
05:08<mordy>i'm new to this
05:09<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. when I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, or if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask (ask the whole channel!). We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer, ask later or ask
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05:09<mordy>err... ok
05:09<enouf>well ,,, be specific
05:10<mordy>i get the gnome (or is it xserver) login screen - but when i enter my username and password, i just get a blue background and nothing else
05:10<enouf>ok, that's a DM == Display Manager
05:11<enouf>which then loads X (Xserver / Xorg) and GNOME (a DE)
05:11<enouf>that's likely GDM
05:11<enouf>gnome display manager
05:11<mordy>i think it started happening after i tried a VNC connection
05:11<enouf>mordy: did it ever work?
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05:12<mordy>well, i've only bene using debian for a day
05:12<enouf>try gdmconfig maybe?
05:12<enouf>!tell mordy -about grounding
05:13<enouf>!tell mordy about msg the bot
05:14<enouf>mordy: did you get a PM from dpkg the bot ?
05:14<enouf>ok then
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05:16<mordy>is the bot also supposed to answer my questions?
05:16<enouf>not really, no
05:17<enouf>well, depends which questions?
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05:17<enouf>i personally can't tell what's wrong
05:17<mordy>well, gdmconfig doesn't work
05:17<enouf>but 05:15:09] <enouf> try gdmconfig maybe?
05:18<enouf>!doesn't work
05:18<dpkg>Look buddy, "doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message".
05:18<mordy>yes, i tried it when you told me
05:18<mordy>"command not found"
05:18<enouf>ok then - better
05:18<enouf>mordy: are you root?
05:18<enouf>id -u says?
05:19<enouf>mordy: try gdm<tab><tab>
05:19<mordy>ok, that works :D
05:20<enouf>heh, whatcha see?
05:20<mordy>it gives me a list of nine - commands(?) things(?) directories(?)
05:20<enouf>commands, yes ,, binaries
05:21<mordy>i see gdmsetup - is that the same as gdmconfig?
05:21<enouf>can you tell me what they are?
05:21<enouf>hrm, ok - i would guess so - sure, run it mordy
05:21<syntech>!tell enouf about gdm
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05:22<enouf>!tell syntech -about msg the bot
05:22<mordy>"gdmsetup:2707": Gt-WARNING **: cannot open display:"
05:22-!-Guest253 is now known as CosmicB
05:22<enouf>mordy: i don't use gnome, nor gdm - so you'll have to get help from others
05:23<enouf>mordy: there's plenty of knowledgeable people around
05:23<enouf>mordy: no frowny face, m k?
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05:24<mordy>hehe, i'll smile when i get my GUI back
05:24<enouf>mordy: you don't need GUI ;-)
05:24<enouf>smile now
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05:25<mordy>hehe, that's what they all say
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05:25<enouf>munga_: try gnome-session to try and start it
05:25<enouf>mordy: i meant yo , not munga_
05:26<enouf>mordy: echo $DISPLAY
05:26<neogojira>have you try dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg?
05:26<enouf>he broke his gdm
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05:26<Nemoder>I think you can restart gdm with: /etc/init.d/gdm restart
05:27<enouf>drxx has nothing to do with that
05:27<neogojira>killall gdm
05:27<neogojira>and type gdm
05:27<Nemoder>but if X is broken then check the logs
05:27<enouf>[05:12:48] <mordy> i get the gnome (or is it xserver) login screen - but when i enter my username and password, i just get a blue background and nothing else
05:27<enouf>that's not the issue - as you now see ;-_
05:28<enouf>he was messing with VMC
05:28<neogojira>perhaps pb with .xsession
05:28<enouf>attempting VNC connections or something
05:28<fxiny>df /home ?
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05:29<fxiny>some nasty dump filling up home ?
05:29-!-adi [] has joined #debian
05:29<mordy>i'm trying the dpkg
05:29<fxiny>mordy: is home full ?
05:29<enouf>fxiny: hrm .. long shot, but you guys can take over now - /me tired ==> bed ..; ;-)
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05:30<fxiny>enouf: :)
05:30<enouf>plus i don't know gnome/gdm really at all
05:30*enouf snores :-P
05:30*fxiny bangs drums and saucerpans
05:31<mordy>lol, so many suggestions
05:32<mordy>what is pb?
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05:34<mordy>i guess the connection was reset :|
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05:35<mordy>df /home - it's not full
05:35<mordy>only 3% use
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05:36<Nemoder>mordy: you could try creating a new system user and logging in to see if it's a problem with the user config or system config
05:36<mordy>hmm... i'll try doing that - although i have more than one username
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05:39<mordy>i created a new user named "test" - and did "su test" - but when i try "startx" i get "user not authorized to run the X server, aborting"
05:40<Nemoder>mordy: might need to addgroup <username> video
05:41<mordy>did that - i get the same message as before - not authorized:(
05:41<witte>mordy: you can not run x under su
05:41<witte>mordy: you need sux
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05:42<witte>mordy: wait, you are in console probably, forget my remark
05:42<Nemoder>you need to logout and back in for group changes to take effect
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05:43<mordy>how do i logout?
05:43<superlinux>mordy or press Ctrl + D
05:44<mordy>hmm... thaat works
05:44<mordy>and i get the same problem - also with the new user
05:45<mordy>i.e. i get the logon screen, but after i enter my username and password, i just get a blank blue background
05:45<witte>mordy: which windowmanager do you choose?
05:45-!-MTristan [] has joined #debian
05:46<mordy>i've tried default, last, failsafe
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05:47<witte>mordy: in the login screen, under session, maybe you can choose an other one (I am not sure i am answering questions here, or being obnoxious because i have only followed the last part of the conversation)
05:47<mordy>(i think those are the options, unless i'm confusing that with something else)
05:47<witte>mordy: is there no other one?
05:47<mordy>Twm - let me try that
05:48<witte>twm is not what you call the nicest wm, but you can try
05:48<mordy>it works
05:48<mordy>lol, it looks horrible
05:48<witte>mordy: ok, now install a nice windowmanager
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05:49<mordy>errr... how? and how do i find out what went wrong with the other sessions?
05:49<witte>mordy: from console or terminal: aptitude update;aptitude kde or gnome or xfce4 or ...
05:49<witte>mordy: aptitude install kde or gnome or xfce4 or
05:50<witte>mordy: it looks like you had no windowmanager installed
05:50<witte>only twm, which is quite basic
05:50<mordy>it worked before
05:50<witte>ah, ok, missed that
05:50<witte>which one did you have before?
05:50<mordy>the default, gnome i think
05:50<mordy>i'm new to this
05:51-!-shark [] has joined #debian
05:51<shark>hi there
05:51<witte>mordy: ok, probably, did you do an update lately?
05:51<shark>does anybody knows why iceweasel crashes so many times in lenny ??
05:51<mordy>i think i installed samba
05:51<mordy>but it worked for a while after that
05:51<witte>mordy: samba should not be related
05:51<shark>i do have a lot of problems always is crashing
05:52<witte>mordy: aptitude update;aptitude install gnome
05:52-!-mode/#debian [+l 350] by debhelper
05:52<shark>when i do try to see videos for example etc etc
05:52<mordy>i don't know how to get to the console from twm though
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05:52<Nemoder>shark: what version? 3.0 was just recently added to lenny
05:52<witte>mordy: ctrl-alt-F1
05:52<shark>yes, that one
05:53<Nemoder>shark: ah videos, is that with adobe flash?
05:53<shark>greasemonkey i think
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05:54<mordy>i get a "no solution found within the allotted time" when i type aptitude install gnome
05:54<mordy>there's a lot of output before that, but it's too much for me to post
05:55<shark>should i use mozilla-plugin-gnash ???
05:55<witte>mordy: never had that error before :)
05:55<shark>eh Nemoder ?
05:56<Nemoder>shark: you can try it, I was only going to suggest that if you were using adobe flash then that is probably what is crashing
05:56<mordy>i get a lot of conflicts
05:56<shark>so what could i do for use it with no crash ?
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05:56<shark>I dont care to use an older version
05:57<mordy>is there a way to uninstall gnome?
05:57<witte>mordy: apt
05:57<witte>mordy: sorry: aptitude remove gnome
05:58<mordy>btw, how would i be able to logon to my console remotely?
05:58-!-kalpik [~kalpik@] has joined #debian
05:58<witte>mordy: you mean using ssh?
05:58<mordy>i guess
05:58<witte>mordy: aptitude install ssh
05:59-!-shark [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
05:59<mordy>yes, but from a windows machine - i just need a client?
05:59<mordy>i think i have those installed
05:59<Nemoder>mordy: try puttyssh in windows
05:59<witte>mordy: and on your windows a client yes
06:00<witte>Nemoder: i believe ssh is both server and client, but i am not sure...
06:00<witte>Nemoder: i mean the ssh package
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06:00<Nemoder>witte: ah you are right
06:00<shark>still crashes with the gnash Nemoder
06:00<shark>what do u suggest me ?
06:01<witte>shark: are there bugs listed in the bug tracking system (as it is newly uploaded to testing)
06:01<mordy>hehe, it works!
06:01<mordy>well, the ssh works, at least
06:02<shark>so can i downgrade somehow to use it correctly at least the navigator
06:02<shark>because it makes me lose tons of time
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06:03<witte>shark: and is it on any site or at one specific site
06:03<shark>youtube for example, it crashes always
06:04<Nemoder>shark: type about:plugins in the URL bar
06:04<witte>shark: youtube is flash
06:04<witte>!adobe flash
06:04<Nemoder>does it say adobe flash or gnash?
06:04<dpkg>Adobe Flash Player is a non-free Flash player and can be installed with flashplugin-nonfree. This package was removed from Etch and will not be included in future stable releases (see; use the one from (ask me about <non-free> <bpo><adobe flash testing>). If you are using a 64-bit browser, ask me about <nspluginwrapper>. For more details, see
06:05<mordy>now my gnome doesn't work at all. when i type "startx" i just get a console window with a "x" cursor
06:05<witte>mordy: you just removed it, right?
06:05<mordy>but i tried to reinstall it
06:06<witte>mordy: did you succeed?
06:06<mordy>i don't think so - i got a bunch of errors
06:06<witte>can you upload the errors to a pastebin
06:06<dpkg>Please don't paste anything into the channel; use a paste site instead, like:,,, for pics. --- Also ask me: <pastebin pipe>
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06:10<Nemoder>mordy: are you mixing packages between different debian versions?
06:10<mordy>i don't know what i'm doing. i only have one debian version installed on my computer
06:11<mordy>if i'm doing it, i'm doing it unknowingly :(
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06:11<Nemoder>and this is Etch?
06:11<mordy>i have etch4r3 amd64
06:12<Nemoder>it says you have packages on hold that conflict with what it wants to install
06:12<mordy>well, the first time i ran debian, it told me to update the kernel from em64t to amd64 - but nothing happened after that - this was like early yesterday
06:13<mordy>(although my chip is em64)
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06:14<witte>mordy: this really really does not look as it should
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06:14<Nemoder>mordy: try apt-get remove totem cupsys-client
06:15<valdyn>mordy: you must have misinterpreted that "upgrade"
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06:15<Nemoder>mordy: also pastebin your /etc/apt/sources.list
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06:16<witte>mordy: emt64 chips use debian amd64 port, so that is ok
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06:16<mordy>yeah, but that's about the only change i've made in respect to the ;'version'
06:18<witte>mordy: you are running half stable half unstable
06:18<Nemoder>oh you still have sarge in there
06:18<witte>mordy: you have sid in your sources.list, and sid is the kid that breaks things
06:18<Nemoder>and sid too doh
06:19<Nemoder>so ya, you have 3 different versions of debian all fighting each other :)
06:19<mordy>so delete sid and sarge?
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06:19<witte>mordy: yes
06:19<valdyn>mordy: not that simple, once you have sid packages installed you are not easy to support
06:19<witte>mordy: but it could be that your system is already halfway converted to sid
06:19<Nemoder>yes, but if you've already completed an upgrade it is next to impossible to downgrade to stable again
06:19<mordy>what do i do? :((
06:20<witte>:) 3 times the same comment, must be true :)
06:20<Nemoder>well it doesn't hurt to try
06:20<Nemoder>comment out the sid and sarge lines
06:20<Nemoder>then apt-get update
06:20<witte>mordy: is this a toy computer, just to check out debian?
06:20<witte>mordy: if you have data on that pc that you want to preserve, backup it now
06:20<mordy>well, it's not that much of a toy - it's pretty powerful, but it's too big and heavy to actually use
06:21<mordy>nah, i don't have anything i need to preserve there
06:21<Nemoder>well you may be better off just reinstalling then
06:21<witte>mordy: ok, then remove those lines in the sources.list
06:21<witte>if that does not work, just reinstall
06:21<mordy>and then reinstall gnome?
06:21<witte>(so after removal of those lines: aptitude update;aptitude install gnome)
06:22<mordy>hmm...i think it's working
06:22<mordy>well, it's at least behaving differently, i'll post the output when it's done
06:23<miksuh>mordy: if you reinstall the whole system then you can just select desktop environment from debian installer
06:23<miksuh>that will install gnome
06:23<miksuh>ah ok
06:23<mordy>yes, but i don't want to do a reinstall, since that would take a long time - it would be a netinstall
06:23<miksuh>totally understand :)
06:24<mordy>maybe i could download the entire archive on my HD - but i don't know how to do that. i've got the space
06:24<witte>mordy: you can do that, but why would you
06:25<valdyn>mordy: thats 12GB of things that you dont need most of
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06:25<mordy>in case my internet connection fails - etc.
06:25<mordy>it would only take me a night to download it, and i've got the space on the disk
06:25<Nemoder>the net installer can resume downloads if the connect fails
06:25<raevol>hey, any ideas why my debian is using 80 megs of ram with just fluxbox running?
06:25<wnd>disk buffer etc, perhaps
06:26<valdyn>raevol: do you understand to read the output of "free"
06:26<miksuh>looks like lenny is already 4 dvds, etch is just3. It's growing quite fast :)
06:26<Nemoder>raevol: run top in a terminal or gps in X
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06:26<alienware>hi u there
06:27<raevol>the hightest things i have in %mem are pidgin at 20%, and xorg at 10%
06:27<raevol>xorg is off when i boot
06:27<raevol>i mean pidgin
06:27<Nemoder>you can use shift-m to sort by memory
06:27<valdyn>raevol: you mean that pidgin isnt in those 80MB?
06:27<mordy>or maybe i could just download the gnome - it's taking a while to download
06:27<Nemoder>should give a good indication of which apps are using the most
06:28<valdyn>raevol: 80M isnt much at all
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06:28<raevol>well i only have 124 megs :[
06:28<mordy>my 'toy box' isn't all that bad - it's pretty powerful
06:28<valdyn>raevol: feel free to paste outputs of those programs and output of "free" on a paste site to get more info from us
06:28<mordy>it's a compaq x6000
06:28<alienware>hi from Peru, is there anybody who know about configure a gateway/router for a local network?
06:28<mordy>it just makes a lot of heat and noise
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06:28<miksuh>ah, actually klenny is bigger than 4 dvd's 5th dvd iso is 865MB
06:28<valdyn>!tell alienware -about ask
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06:29<alienware>thank u valdyn
06:29<raevol>thats with fluxbox and pidgin running, and thats it
06:30<valdyn>raevol: so ~100mb used
06:30<mordy>is there a way to remove all the previously installed sid and sarge stuff?
06:30<valdyn>raevol: you easily get alot of ram usage by the X bitmaps alone
06:30<raevol>hmm, cant seem to copy top
06:31<valdyn>raevol: you can change the refresh timer
06:31<valdyn>raevol: with the D key
06:31<Nemoder>mordy: you would have to do it manually one package at a time, and if any of those packages are needed to keep the system running then it would be very hard to downgrade
06:32<witte>mordy: the sarge stuff will be limited as etch will have higher version numbers
06:32<witte>mordy: the sid stuff you need to downgrade
06:32<dpkg>methinks downgrade is not possible with apt-get currently. No future support is anticipated. Some programs change the binary format of their files in a way that cannot be rolled back later, and package maintainer scripts provide ways to upgrade to new config file formats but not ways to downgrade. You can always try to downgrade a package using dpkg -i <olderversion.deb>. Also see <partial downgrade>, or <sdn>
06:32<amphi>raevol: xrestop can be useful
06:33<mordy>well, idon't think i've installed that much could i have installed in a day
06:33<alienware>Well I just install debian in my pc with two interfaces (eth0 and eth1) for make it a gateway/router but I cant connect to this gateway from another pc, somebody can help me?
06:33<raevol>see i only count like 50% of my memory being used there, max
06:33<witte>mordy: can you show us the output of "dpkg -l|grep libc6"
06:34<valdyn>raevol: you cannot calculate memory used by adding up the RES values
06:34<mordy>hmm... the gnome install is still running. can i open another ssh connection?
06:34<raevol>ah ok
06:34<Nemoder>raevol: my understanding is that the kernel will reserve a lot more memory than is used by apps to be more efficient
06:34<witte>!bridge setup
06:34<dpkg>Install the bridge-utils package and read /usr/share/doc/bridge-utils/README.Debian.gz (Etch) or the bridge-utils-interfaces(5) man page (Lenny). It contains basic and advanced bridge configuration examples ('dhcp' can be used in place of 'static'). IP forwarding does _not_ need to be enabled.
06:34<witte>alienware: ^^ that should work for you
06:35<valdyn>raevol: 128mb ram is very slim for debian using "modern" applications
06:35<Nemoder>mordy: yes you can open more than one network permitting
06:35<valdyn>raevol: like pdgin, web browser etc
06:35<valdyn>raevol: whats your screen resolution?
06:35<raevol>hmm, ok
06:36<alienware>thanks witte
06:36<valdyn>raevol: 1024x768x4 makes you probably using 3MB per screen bitmap
06:37<valdyn>raevol: thats per virtual desktop, and on top of that stuff that is scrolled off in windows
06:37<raevol>hmm ouch
06:37<valdyn>raevol: 20mb are _easily_ filled that way ONLY by X bitmaps
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06:38<valdyn>raevol: thats assuming you use a truecolor display
06:38<raevol>hmm, wow, ok
06:38<valdyn>raevol: you can cut that in half by using 16bit color depth
06:38<witte>mordy: that is the sid version of libc6
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06:39<witte>mordy: i think reinstall will be the easiest
06:39<mordy>can i reinstall via ssh? :D
06:39<raevol>just change my depth in xorg.conf to 16?
06:39<witte>mordy: yes, use preseeding
06:39<dpkg>preseed is probably a method of doing a remote network installation, or, or
06:41<valdyn>raevol: your piding is probably closer to 35MB ( at least ), 23shr plus 9m shared, but most of that shared is probably gtk, which is sharable, but not shared with any other gtk application
06:41<raevol>hmm, yea i was using xchat with bitlbee before, ran faster but kinda featureless
06:42<mordy>libc6 is the main library?
06:42<witte>mordy: as far as i understood, yes
06:42<valdyn>mordy: its the standard c library
06:42-!-MTristan [] has joined #debian
06:42<dpkg>well, libc6 is the GNU C library version 2, which Debian uses since 2.0. Do not try to downgrade it. It is a essential component of your Debian system, and we are not responsible if it breaks.
06:42<raevol>valdyn: thanks, i've changed my depth and i'm gonna restart and then look into picking up some more RAM for this old thing :)
06:42<mordy>well, i just tried "aptitude remove libc6"
06:43<mordy>maybe it will work
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06:43<Nemoder>if it does, don't count on being able to do anything else on the machine
06:43<valdyn>thats a safe path towards reinstall
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06:43<mordy>i'm more interested in learning how to work this thing than actually getting a working system -
06:44<mordy>then i can reinstall libc6, no?
06:44<Nemoder>no, because apt and dpkg depend on libc6
06:44<mordy>oh :|
06:44<mordy>but it's downloading things
06:44<mordy>maybe it automatically fixes it
06:45<fxiny>mordy: leaseweb ?
06:45<witte>mordy: and that won't work, right?
06:46<mordy>let's see what happens..
06:46<Nemoder>well technically the kernel will keep references to a lib in memory as long as the apps that use them are still running
06:46<mordy>what's leaseweb?
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06:46<fxiny>mordy: good . is not the libc6/leaseweb issue
06:47<fxiny>i've already seen two leaseweb users with some libc6 problems
06:47<witte>fxiny: it is the "oops, i should not have sid in my sources.list" issue ;-)
06:48<mordy>i just don't understand why it's downloading and unpacking so many things if all i asked is for it to "remove"
06:48<mordy>unless it's automatically removing the sid and replacing it with etch
06:48<valdyn>mordy: we cant either, if you dont show us the output
06:48<Nemoder>mordy: because you previously had other things scheduled to install
06:48<mordy>it's a lot
06:48<MTristan>I've juste compiled my kernel (2.6.25-9) for the first time
06:49<mordy>it worked!
06:49<MTristan>but it doesn't want to boot, the error is here :
06:49<fxiny>witte: no sid . one user was running etch
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06:49<valdyn>MTristan: your kernel is configured wrongly and/or is not finding the initrd that it needs due to its configuration
06:49<Nemoder>MTristan: maybe you compiled it to use initrd but didn't install it?
06:50<Nemoder>MTristan: did you use kernel-package tools to build it?
06:50<mordy>maybe libc6-i386 is still sid :-/
06:50<witte>fxiny: i meant the problems mordy is facing is the one described
06:50<valdyn>mordy: so you kind of successfully downgraded libc6
06:50<MTristan>I just followed this tutorial :
06:50<fxiny>witte: ahhh . got you now
06:50<valdyn>mordy: aptitude purge libc6-i386
06:51<MTristan>what is initrd?
06:51<mordy>what's the difference between purge and remove?
06:51<valdyn>mordy: its not installed, its rc, which means its removed with the configuration intact, as is default
06:51<valdyn>mordy: remove leaves config intact, purge removes it
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06:51<Nemoder>MTristan: add --initrd to the make-kpkg line
06:51<shark>i had a bad idea of let the instaler manager do itself the partitions
06:52<mordy>errr.. and why would purge be better in this case? do i want to remove the configuration/
06:52<shark>and i have this problembedbox:/# df -h
06:52<shark>S.ficheros Tamaño Usado Disp Uso% Montado en
06:52<shark>/dev/hda1 259M 257M 0 100% /
06:52<valdyn>mordy: purge is better on a downgrade
06:52<witte>shark: remove old kernels that you have installed
06:52<valdyn>mordy: because the older version obviously cant know about possible changes in new configuration
06:52<valdyn>mordy: its not practically relevant in this case, just cleans up your dpkg -l
06:53<fxiny>witte: this is the missing symlink >> /lib/tls/i686/cmov/
06:53<mordy>hmm.. aptitude doesn't work, only apt-get does
06:53<MTristan>the problem is that compiling on my computer lasts about 10 hours... (bad 500MHz, bad HDD...)
06:53<shark> kernel-image-2.6.24
06:54<shark>the package it should be called like that n o?
06:54<valdyn>MTristan: so why dont you use the debian kernel?
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06:54<MTristan>to try to make my computer running faster valdyn
06:54<fxiny>MTristan: exactly : 400Mh old hd here . only debian kernel
06:54<valdyn>MTristan: ok, give up on that, it wont happen
06:55<valdyn>MTristan: use a debian kernel
06:55<fxiny>MTristan: nahhhh debian kernels are fine
06:55<mordy>what do i do now?
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06:56<fxiny>MTristan: on thix machibe i've compiled only one kernel , a woody preemptive
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06:57<MTristan>well, I'll keep debian kernel...
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06:58<fxiny>MTristan: look at this beauty : 2.6.18-6-vserver-686
06:58<houbysoft>hi. could someone please help me? I've tried to create my own debian package, so I prepared everything (I think), and now I'm in the dir of my package and I run "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot". But it still say some !@#$ error : dpkg-genchanges: failure: cannot read files list file: No such file or dir.
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06:59<mordy>how do i get aptitude working again? i get "No such file or directory" now
06:59<fxiny>i can run two vservers + torrents + xmms2 and iceweasel no porbs
06:59<valdyn>mordy: you install it
06:59<mordy>from apt-get?
07:01<houbysoft>mordy : sudo apt-get install aptitude. hi. could someone please help me? I've tried to create my own debian package, so I prepared everything (I think), and now I'm in the dir of my package and I run "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot". But it still say some !@#$ error : dpkg-genchanges: failure: cannot read files list file: No such file or dir.
07:01<MTristan>in fact, I've just installed Debian, I was running Ubuntu Feisty before, and I could run XMMS, Pidgin, XChat, Firefox, Apache, Proftpd...
07:01<MTristan>without any problem
07:01<valdyn>MTristan: and now you cant?
07:01<mordy>"The following packaged have unmet dependencies: gnome-applets...."
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07:01<MTristan>but seems like Debian is now slower
07:02<fxiny>MTristan: i do run apache yeahhh
07:02<fxiny>MTristan: slower ? cannot say is slower : never had the disgrace to run ubu :P
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07:04<fxiny>and no proftpd . i run vsftpd on my main box and here ftp-must-die runs only in a vserver
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07:04<fxiny>MTristan: same for bitlbee which i prefere to pidgin
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07:06<valdyn>MTristan: it may be that you are running something else in debian that you didnt run in ubuntu
07:06<shark>i did deleted the old kernels and bla bla
07:06<amorphous>I think i have an interesting problem (Hope I'm not being stupid)....
07:06<valdyn>MTristan: kernels wont do anything but microoptimisation, which you would barely notice
07:06<shark>and i still need 50 extra MB
07:06<shark>on the / partition
07:06<mordy>is there a way to force an install despite"package dependencies"?
07:06<valdyn>mordy: thats pointless
07:07<valdyn>mordy: a package without a dependency will not work
07:07<shark>what should i do
07:07<mordy>but it's giving me a weird depenency - i can't see how aptitude would depdend on "gnome-applets"
07:07<valdyn>mordy: it does not
07:07<fxiny>shark: 259M for root ?
07:07<mordy>let me paste the output
07:08<shark>/dev/hda1 259M 210M 36M 86% /
07:08<amorphous>... I'm ssh'd into a box on the other side of town., but it cannot get internet. I can't ping google from the box, but the net is ok Because I'm ssh'd. Running etch & /etc/network/interfaces has gateway correct ( - same as a windows box plugged into the same router)
07:08<shark>i need nearly 40 more
07:08<shark>dont know what to remove
07:08<valdyn>amorphous: sshd in over internet?
07:08<shark>i did removed the old kernel alredy
07:08<amorphous>can anybody help me? I can ping the router
07:09<amorphous>valdyn, sshd??
07:09<fxiny>shark: is var on its' own partition ?
07:09<valdyn>amorphous: ssh'd
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07:09<amorphous>valdyn, i use ssh username@server.address
07:09<shark>/dev/hda6 2,8G 899M 1,8G 34% /var
07:09<shark>yes fxiny
07:09<valdyn>amorphous: yea, but that implies nothign about internet
07:09<fxiny>shark: check ls /var/cache/apt/ar*
07:10<valdyn>amorphous: could just aswell be a private network
07:10<shark>what ?
07:10<amorphous>valdyn, no comprende
07:10<valdyn>amorphous: ill guess its internet
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07:10<valdyn>amorphous: logged in via name or ip?
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07:10<amorphous>valdyn, no - it is internet - the box is miles away and both are online - so it's an IP addres
07:10<amorphous>valdyn, via ip
07:10<shark>what i should remove or move fxiny ?
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07:11<valdyn>amorphous: try ping
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07:11<amorphous>valdyn, works - is that you?
07:11<valdyn>amorphous: no, thats google
07:12<valdyn>amorphous: internet works, dns does not
07:12<amorphous>so why can't it ping by name? is this a DNS issue?
07:12<valdyn>amorphous: /etc/resolv.conf should contain the name server
07:12<amorphous>valdyn, thank you. ---but is the name server not automatic when I get a lease?
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07:12<shark>fxiny: ??
07:13<valdyn>amorphous: can be, but getting a lease does not require or imply that you get a nameserver too
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07:13<Woet>./exec_server764: error while loading shared libraries: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
07:13<Woet>what package do I need?
07:13<fxiny>shark: where's /usr ? docs ? locales ?
07:13<shark>/dev/hda5 4,6G 1,9G 2,5G 43% /usr
07:14<amorphous>valdyn, That was it :) thank you - the nameserver was set to - not x.x.0.1
07:14<amorphous>valdyn, you are a diamond. Thank you
07:14<fxiny>so that's boot you are talking
07:14<valdyn>amorphous: welcome
07:14<shark>moslty is in /usr
07:15<shark>in share
07:15<mordy>wait, i don't think apt-get lets me install anything
07:15<Nemoder>Woet: apt-file search
07:16<shark>i do need to install ia32-libs
07:16<shark>fxiny: and as far as i see, it's gonna be installed in /
07:16<shark>so i dont have such a 70MB to install it on the root
07:17<shark> fxiny
07:17<shark>that's what i do have
07:17<fxiny>shark: ok lemme see
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07:18<shark>check this also
07:19<Nemoder>shark: ia32-libs are installed in /emul/ so you could mount that directory elsewhere before hand
07:19<shark>in boot i only have the kernel i'm using
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07:20<Nemoder>mordy: I still suggest reinstalling, you could be finding broken sid packages and configs for some time
07:20<fxiny>shark: you have /tmp bigger then /
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07:21<mordy>i'll probably do that at the end, but first i want to stretch this installation to its limits
07:21<shark>yes this happens for trust the stupid manager
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07:22<Nemoder>shark: you might also be able to simply make a new dir under /usr/ and link /emul/ to that
07:22<fxiny>shark: as a sh* workaround i'd swap / with /tmp . is s* but you get 70 extra . still that partioning shceme is crap imho
07:23<shark>bedbox:/# mount -t ext3 /dev/hda8 /emul
07:23<shark>i did this
07:23<shark>it's ok also ?
07:23<Nemoder>no, you don't want system files installed on your tmp partition
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07:24<Nemoder>shark: you still have a lot of free space in /usr so i'd say mkdir /usr/emul; ln -s /usr/emul /emul
07:24<fxiny>Nemoder: what i'm saying is : he can dump / in /tmp . edit fstab
07:24<fxiny>but is orrible
07:25<shark>yeah that's will be the better idea Nemoder
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07:25<Nemoder>fxiny: i don't think it's too terrible, most files get installed in /usr/ and /var/ anyway
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07:26<fxiny>Nemoder: not yours but mine / tmp swap solution is orrible
07:26<Nemoder>ah yes that would be messy to deal with
07:26<fxiny>Nemoder: it will work
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07:27<mordy>hmm... why am i getting a "connection refused" from ssh - when i try to connect after i rebooted
07:28<Nemoder>mordy: probably because the ssh server is not running
07:28<mordy>well, this is weird, really weird. my gnome works now!
07:28<shark>making a directory in /usr/emul, and ln -s /usr/emul /emul ?
07:29<fxiny>shark: i don't use anymore multipartitionig schemes . my encrypted box runs on ext2 boot , root swap and home encrypted . when installing i always think lvm2 , i install only / home and swap and i keep space for lvm2
07:29<Nemoder>shark: ya that should work fine
07:29<mordy>and VNC works too
07:30<fxiny>shark: there's no point in having a dedicated var at 30% full . much better leaving some for lvm2
07:30<fxiny>so my var goes i /
07:32-!-mode/#debian [+l 356] by debhelper
07:32<shark>i should change everything in a month lvm2 or something like
07:32<shark>but till now i'm ok if works
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07:34<fxiny>look at that : 43% usr , 34% var and 86% root
07:35<fxiny>and 94G home !
07:35<shark>i get this problem trying to install it, `./emul/ia32-linux/lib/security': No existe el fichero o el directorio
07:35<shark>is not find
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07:35<shark>i think i have removed first /emul, thinking it'll reinstall everything
07:36<Nemoder>shark: was it still mounted to tmp??
07:36<shark>fxiny: well home is supposed to be begger than everything
07:36<shark>only ln
07:36<fxiny>shark: why ?
07:36<mordy>i got aptitude to work again - but now it seems that anything i try to install or update confronts me with a message about dependencies and gnome
07:36<mordy>and it doesn't let me remove gnome
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07:37<shark>why what fxiny ?
07:37-!-ChanOp [shani@2001:5c0:84dc:1:2::19] has quit [Quit: changing servers]
07:37<fxiny>shark: 94G for storing stuff ?
07:37<shark>so how can i let ia32 emul thing work?
07:37-!-ChanOp [shani@2001:5c0:84dc:1:2::19] has joined #debian
07:37<Nemoder>shark: strange, just try making that directory that is missing
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07:38<shark>nobody install that huge programs
07:38<shark>or having that huge logs
07:38<shark>only home, to store, films docs, etc
07:38<fxiny>shark: unencrypted ?
07:39<Nemoder>shark: yes, although I've noticed some of the games that get installed in system folders can add up to several gigs :)
07:39<fxiny>shark: you can shrink home then use lvm2 and add to /var when need some or back to home
07:40<sheldonh>can anyone confirm that linux md can't add devices to a raid0 array?
07:40<fxiny>lvm2 is the perfect tool for large hd
07:40<shark>now it requiers ./emul/ia32-linux/usr/lib/': No existe el fichero o el directorio
07:40<shark>some files
07:40<shark>i fucked myself deleting /emul firstly
07:40<valdyn>sheldonh: why the hell would anyone do that?
07:41<valdyn>sheldonh: i mean, why the hell would anyone want to add a device to a raid0?
07:41<Nemoder>shark: hmm, so you started to install ia32-libs then just rm'd it?
07:41<shark>i removed /emul first
07:42<shark>because i needed space
07:42<sheldonh>valdyn: well, if the array manager restriped, including the new volume, you'd increase the size of the array :)
07:42<shark>because last time stopped because of size
07:42<valdyn>sheldonh: and increase the change of total data loss even more
07:42<Nemoder>shark: does apt think that package is still installed?
07:42<shark>so i removed, because i thought it wills tart again
07:42<sheldonh>valdyn: yes
07:42<shark>but i have to do this
07:43<Nemoder>shark: dpkg -l ia32-libs
07:43<shark>apt-get install -f
07:43<mordy>ok, i'm just reinstalling the thing. is there any way to monitor the installation?
07:43<shark>no is not installed
07:43<sheldonh>valdyn: raid0 has its uses (e.g. cheap, high volume storage in one node of a dual-head san)
07:43<Nemoder>shark: but you get these errors when running apt-get install ia32-libs ?
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07:44<sheldonh>valdyn: also, good for things like lustrefs
07:44<shark>when it tries, yes
07:44<Nemoder>weird.. why would it say files are missing on installation..
07:45<Nemoder>maybe try: apt-get install ia32-libs --reinstall
07:45<shark>same error
07:45*Nemoder scratches head
07:47<fxiny>shark: easy : home is /dev/hda9 , any hda10 ?
07:48<fxiny>no ? good
07:48<fxiny>i'd shrink home
07:48<fxiny>and dump / in a new hda10
07:48<sheldonh>valdyn: busy helping an isp build a san+nas combo using drbd, iscsitarget, nfs-kernel-server and heartbeat :)
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07:48<shark>eah that culd be a solution
07:48<fxiny>edit fstab and you are fine
07:49<shark>but doesnt' worth if cann't take the final purpose
07:49<sheldonh>valdyn: the web cluster will use an iscsi target as a gfs filesystem. working well so far. deals with power loss on the active head without a hitch (as long as you're not using etch's open-iscsi)
07:49<mordy>gah, there's a reason i didn't want to do a reinstall - the servers are horrible
07:49<shark>install the ia32 for after install the flash thing to try to navegate correctly
07:51<Nemoder>I am still baffled why a package would say the files it is trying to install are missing
07:51<sheldonh>so anyway, anyone know whether linux md supports adding a new device to a raid0 array? testing says no, but i'm hoping i'm just overlooking something
07:52<shark>i think i have such a big problem
07:52<sheldonh>i get "mdX: persionality does not support diskops!", which sounds like a no, to me :)
07:52<valdyn>sheldonh: the non-existance of that feature does not seem to be documented
07:53<valdyn>sheldonh: i just saw a mail where some dev said " no plans for raid0 reshape support "
07:53<shark>well fxiny Nemoder thx
07:53<shark>i'll try to solve this later
07:53-!-klh [] has joined #debian
07:53<shark>thx again
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07:53<sheldonh>valdyn: yeah, the only hint i got in the documentation was under "Follow or Monitor"
07:54<sheldonh>valdyn: aha, cool. that answers that. i'm glad i checked! we're better off adding physical extents to a volume group with lvm
07:55<sheldonh>virtualbox for the win
07:57<sheldonh>valdyn: should be able to simulate reshaping with pvmove, yeah?
07:57<valdyn>sheldonh: sure
07:59<sheldonh>valdyn: which, i guess, takes us back to your "why would anybody want to add devices to a raid0 array?" :)
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08:03<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
08:03<abrotman>or speak english here
08:03<mordy>who was the one who told me to reinstall debian?
08:04<francis>ok in english
08:04<sheldonh>hmmm, will lenny be 4.1 or 5.0?
08:05<MTristan>hmm... I was wondering
08:05<abrotman>mordy: why would you have to reinstall ?
08:05<sheldonh>thanks. the timeline for debian versions will look funny
08:05<sheldonh>a slow crawl for years, then a sudden rock face :)
08:05<mordy>i had sid sources, and basically it screwed up my system
08:05<MTristan>may I disable initframs/initrd support in menuconfig? or compile with --initrd option?
08:05<abrotman>sheldonh: it was fairly quick at one time .. compared to sarge/etch
08:05<mordy>but i'm reinstalling now, and i'm getting authentication errors despite allow_unauthenticated being entered as a parameter
08:06<sheldonh>MTristan: it's totally possible, but wouldn't you be wandering off the support reservation quite a bit?
08:06<abrotman>mordy: are you stillin the installer ?
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08:06<MTristan>hmm I'm french, and didn't understand your answer sheldonh
08:06<mordy>well, i managed to install it - but then i messed the system up again, so i decided to reinstall
08:07<sheldonh>MTristan: possible, but then you'd find it harder to get support
08:07<abrotman>MTristan: why are you compiling your own kernel ?
08:07<sheldonh>MTristan: more importantly, what about initrd doesn't work for you?
08:07<MTristan>so I'll use --initrd :)
08:08<MTristan>I'm compiling my own kernel because I've got lots of things that I don't use, and I'm trying to get more power from my 500MHz :/
08:09<sheldonh>meh, virtualbox is irritating me. doesn't look like you can use 4 disks, even when you're not using a cdrom drive
08:09<MTristan>sheldonh, I've got this error when I boot on my kernel
08:10<mordy>i don't knwo what to do now - cat /proc/cmdline shows allow_unauthenticated true, but i'm still getting an authentication error
08:10<MTristan>and somebody told me that it was because I have problems with initrd :/
08:10<abrotman>MTristan: that's hogwash .. your system only loads modules you need .. compiling your own kernel isn't really useful in this case
08:10<sheldonh>mordy: surely "allow_unauthenticated=true"? (not sure what allow_unauthenticated is, but it almost certainly wants an assignment op)
08:11<sheldonh>abrotman: actually, for tight, focused boxes, you can squeeze out a lot of memory by building a custom kernel
08:12<sheldonh>MTristan: to me, that error looks like you forgot to include the driver for your storage :)
08:12<abrotman>MTristan: if you want to ask about compiling your own kernel .. ask #kernelnewbies
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08:13<abrotman>sheldonh: and then the box won't work when you try to do anything .. 'smbfs .. crap gotta recompile' .. and it saves almost nothing
08:13<sheldonh>abrotman: hence "focused" :)
08:13<abrotman>this is really a huge waste of MTristan's time
08:13<MTristan>thanks abrotman, and sheldonh, I think I activated it, but... I will verify
08:13<MTristan>abrotman, I have all the time I want :p
08:13<sheldonh>abrotman: dude, i didn't suggest that he compile his own kernel
08:14<sheldonh>abrotman: remember, some people pick up debian for fun :)
08:14<sheldonh>abrotman: the modern equivalent of a train set :)
08:14<abrotman>MTristan: then figure it out on your own .. why ask us .. Debian provides you with a good kernel .. use it
08:14<sheldonh>of course, if it's just a train set, you should be using gentoo ;)
08:15<sheldonh>MTristan: i _did_ warn you about "harder to get support" ;)
08:15*sheldonh grins
08:15<abrotman>MTristan: FWIFW .. i use the debian kernels on some very slow machines with limited RAM .. TBH the killer isn't the kernel .. it's trying to use things like aptitude :)
08:15<abrotman>erm .. FWIW :)
08:15<abrotman>no extra F needed
08:16<abrotman>even X isn't that bad ...
08:16<mordy>so any suggestions about why i'm still getting authentication erros?
08:16<sheldonh>aptitude runs in my 128MB lab vboxes, as long as nothing else is running, or i bother with swap :)
08:16<abrotman>did you install the debian-keyring ?
08:16<fxiny>firefox is the old box real killer
08:16<abrotman>sheldonh: i mean it 'runs' on a 486 with 36MB :)
08:17<sheldonh>abrotman: wow! i should try dropping the memory of my vboxes
08:17<sheldonh>abrotman: are you talking about linux 2.6?
08:17<abrotman>yes .. it's running etch
08:17<sheldonh>abrotman: woot! must try this. installer works with that little memory too?
08:17<abrotman>hey .. it has a math co-processor .. LOOK OUT!
08:18<sheldonh>fear the nsa
08:18<abrotman>sheldonh: it was an upgrade from sarge .. but with 36MB the etch installer should
08:18<abrotman>oh wait .. no .. etch is 48MB i think
08:18<abrotman>sarge was 24MB
08:18<sheldonh>i'll be impressed
08:18<abrotman>but i'd geuss the etch installer will actually work .. but i've not tried
08:18*sheldonh fires up a tiny box
08:18<Nemoder>hmm I've been wondering if I should upgrade my sarge install on my p200 router to etch
08:19<abrotman>how much RAM ?
08:19<sheldonh>abrotman: let's try with 36MB first :)
08:19<Nemoder>looks like it has 64mb
08:19<mordy>any suggestions?
08:19<mordy>i'm entirely lost :(
08:20<abrotman>is 2.6 slower on old hardware than 2.4 .. sure ..
08:20<sheldonh>hehe. "Entering low memory mode"
08:20<sheldonh>abrotman: with the exception of disk IO :)
08:20<abrotman>but if your machine is that old .. disk IO isn't your bottle neck :)
08:20<sheldonh>abrotman: ah. point :)
08:22<abrotman>Nemoder: besides that sarge has no more security support?
08:23<Nemoder>ya that's the only reason i'd have to upgrade since it still works fine
08:23<abrotman>Nemoder: did you compile your own kernel on the box?
08:23<Nemoder>I think it's already using 2.6
08:23<abrotman>wouldn't be a huge difference i wouldn't think then
08:24<Nemoder>I kinda thought the hardware would die by now but those p200s last forever :)
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08:24<abrotman>Nemoder: i've got another machine around .. a P150 Packard Bell .. damn thing won't die .. i should give it to an Oddities Museum "Here is the Packard Bell that won't die"
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08:26<fxiny>ohhh yes : my old box psu fan runs with a tootpick up the a* since last month . it won't die
08:26<Nemoder>I was using a p100 before this but then the fan went out, I logged in to see why dhcp died and ran ls /usr/bin and it returned complete gibberish
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08:28<mordy>why am i still getting an authentication error after using allow_unauthenticated=true?
08:28<Nemoder>I'm amazed the routing was still functioning with the cpu that damaged
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08:30<Nemoder>heh now this is on my desktop: kinda depressing, at least I do have a ton of ram in this box
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08:32<fxiny>when the fan accident happened , i've tryed to use only my newest box . after a day the god of sadness commanded the pII resuscitation : i feel much better cursing firebus and scp
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08:35<mordy>i tried installing it from another console, and it worked
08:35<mordy>is there a way to add more consoles during instllation?
08:37<Nemoder>ctrl-f2 through f6 are all virtual consoles you can switch to
08:37<mordy>well, for me it's alt-f1-f6
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08:37<mordy>i mean f1-f4
08:38<mordy>i hope i'm not screwing anything up by running the installtion from another console
08:38<mordy>maybe multiple consoles allow you to install multiple installations on multiple partitions
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08:47<sheldonh>abrotman: 36MB isn't enough (hangs reading package lists from network mirror)
08:47<alienware>hi u there again
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08:48<zy>anybody here?
08:49<alienware>hi zy
08:49<zy>do you know how to chroot from ramfs to a .iso file?
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08:51<alienware>zy: no :/
08:51<zy>thx all the same
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08:53<abrotman>sheldonh: i doubt it hangs
08:54<sheldonh>abrotman: *shrug* that's what happened :)
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08:54<sheldonh>abrotman: reading package list, then a blank line, then nothing (on vty3)
08:54<abrotman>sheldonh: might have been taking awhile
08:55<abrotman>sheldonh: remember .. not a fast box .. low ram .. probably a lot of swapping i'd guess
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08:55<sheldonh>abrotman: more than 10 minutes to read the package lists?
08:57<abrotman>wouldn't surprise me
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08:58<Nemoder>if it was actually running out of ram the kernel would kill the app
08:58<sheldonh>abrotman: too lazy to try again -- started on the 48MB install now
08:59<enouf>ok, one down, now onto the other
08:59<sheldonh>abrotman: but somewhere between 36 and 48 inclusive, there's a threshold that tips the installer's behaviour. with 48MB, it didn't insist that i hand select components, and just loaded all modules and partman parts
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09:04<abrotman>sheldonh: i bet it would hav eworked with 26
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09:05<sheldonh>abrotman: i'll watch vmstat for signs of swapping next time. obviously, i bet it won't :)
09:07<enouf>sheldonh: yes, the lomem param is built to kick in ~48MB and down
09:08<sheldonh>enouf: got that. but 48MB is _also_ lowmem, and it's behaving differently from 36MB (didn't prompt me to select components)
09:09<enouf>sheldonh: i'm saying that IINM, @ ~48MB, or maybe it's 64MB the lowmem aspect will kick in - but not sure what you're saying
09:10<enouf>36MB didn't prompt you?
09:10<enouf>maybe there's also an issue with below a certain amount of RAM, low disk space is presumed
09:10<enouf>since my p150 w/32MB RAM came with a 1.2GB only HDD
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09:11<sheldonh>enouf: they both went into low memory mode automatically. 36MB prompted me to select installer components, 48MB didn't
09:11<enouf>so, when a standard DE install is 1.7GB (Gnome) you see the issues?
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09:14<sheldonh>what's the utility for upgrading a source package? i thought it was dupdate
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09:17<abrotman>dget ?
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09:21<avu>sheldonh, uupdate
09:21<avu>sheldonh, (in devscripts)
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09:22<papercup>hello, i am new to debian.
09:22<papercup>i have the problem, that the pc need >10min time to start, if there is no screen connected. where can i find help?
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09:26<sheldonh>avu: aha! thanks
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09:32<mordy>hehe, i finally managed to reinstall debian
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09:32<athena18>i'm having trouble setting up a firewall i can use
09:33<athena18>(i had to reinstall the whole system yesterday---after it said i had no internet connection)
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09:36<athena18>help on firewalls would be appreciated...
09:36<athena18>i'm using etch with kde window manager
09:37<athena18>is lenny now stable?
09:39<EmleyMoor>No - etch is still stable
09:39<EmleyMoor>lenny is still testing, though a freeze is pending
09:39<inigo_>athena18, wy you don't read a bit ?
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09:40<fxiny>athena18: back on chan now
09:40<fxiny>athena18: check out shorewall and install shorewall-doc
09:41<fxiny>athena18: lenny will be stable wir end of this year
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09:48<sheldonh>inigo_: sadly, the front page doesn't say much about upcoming releases
09:48*sheldonh likes the way freebsd's front page clues you in, even when you've been out of the loop for a while
09:49<dpkg>somebody said releases was See for an explanation of releases. see <release history> for prior releases.
09:49<sheldonh>abrotman: yeah, but not obviously referenced from the front page
09:50<abrotman>IIRC there's a link on the front page to that page
09:50<sheldonh>abrotman: just the tiny "Release info" link
09:50<abrotman>though .. the "testing" description is pretty bad IMO
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09:51<sheldonh>abrotman: yeah. hopeless answer to the question "yes, but when" :)
09:51<abrotman>i meant the part about "not accepted into testing yet"
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09:51<sheldonh>abrotman: obviously "when it's ready", but it would help if it said "lenny is in beta2"
09:51<abrotman>nah .. if you want to know .. you'll find it
09:52<fxiny>WIR is nice
09:52<sheldonh>abrotman: yeah, by googling for lenny installer :)
09:52<sheldonh>abrotman: but when people have to google for your release schedule, you've gotta worry :)
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09:53<sheldonh>abrotman: even sucks :)
09:53<sheldonh>abrotman: and that's 2 clicks in :)
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09:53*abrotman gives sheldonh a tissue
09:53<abrotman>it's not for general consumption .. why make it easy?
09:53<sheldonh>abrotman: ha! hasn't even gotten me hard. we're a long way from tissues :)
09:54<yury>nasty nasty gcc bug
09:54<sheldonh>abrotman: because the question may not come from someone who wants to install it in production
09:54<yury>compile this (yes, it's wrong, I know): int main(int argc, char **argv) {fputs(""); return 0; }
09:54<yury>no headers
09:54<sheldonh>abrotman: it may come from someone who's a business head, and is worried that his techies are selling him up the river by recommending this lenny thing for the san project :)
09:54<sheldonh>abrotman: just, you know, for example ;)
09:55<sheldonh>abrotman: by the time the san project is a go, lenny will probably be stable. i say this. business head decides to go do a fact check. and becomes worried
09:55<yury>gcc seg faults
09:56<sheldonh>you made the baby compiler cry
09:56<yury>hardly a baby
09:56<yury>gcc is prolly older than you are
09:56<abrotman>sheldonh: his techs should be up front with him ..
09:57<yury>The very first (beta) release of GCC (then known as the "GNU C Compiler") was made on 22 March 1987
09:57<sheldonh>yury: 4.3.1 doesn't segfault for me (sid x86)
09:57<yury>lenny x86_64
09:57<abrotman>yury: which veresion of debian ?
09:57<yury>did you include <stdio.h>?
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09:58<sheldonh>yury: with and without, no segfault
09:58<yury>without I get a segfault
09:58<yury>ury@orbit:~/Projects/mkv$ gcc bug.c
09:58<yury>bug.c: In function ‘main’:
09:58<yury>bug.c:5: internal compiler error: Segmentation fault
09:58<yury>meh, mispasted my own name
09:58<sheldonh>you fail. :) what version of gcc is in lenny?
09:59<yury>yury@orbit:~/Projects/mkv$ gcc --version
09:59<yury>gcc (Debian 4.3.1-2) 4.3.1
09:59<yury>line 5 happens to be a '}'
09:59<abrotman>fails to compile here .. bad code
09:59<yury>yes, it is
09:59<abrotman>wait .. my bad
09:59<yury>but it shouldn't segfault
09:59<abrotman>temp.c: In function ‘main’:
09:59<abrotman>temp.c:4: error: too few arguments to function ‘fputs’
09:59<yury>if you include <stdio.h> it is fine
09:59<abrotman>and i have lenny
09:59<yury>like that
10:00<yury>which arch?
10:00<abrotman>and i included sthdio.h
10:00<yury>remove stdio.h
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10:00<sheldonh>yury: no. if you include stdio, it errors. if you don't, it compiles without segfaulting
10:00<yury>segfaults for me
10:00<yury>someone else have an x86_64 box?
10:00<abrotman>yury: compiles here without the stdio.h
10:00<sheldonh>yury: of course, the compiled program segfaults
10:00<yury>erm.. no?
10:00<abrotman>i thnik he's saying gcc is segfaulting compiling
10:00<yury>it doesn't compile at all
10:00<sheldonh>abrotman: yeah, just being cautious :)
10:01<abrotman>there is a #debian-amd64
10:01<abrotman>i thought there was a #debian-gcc .. but i don't see it
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10:02<yury>we'll see if anyone is awake in there
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10:15<mordy>i think i've asked this before - but is there a non-vnc solution for a terminal server?
10:15<mordy>or some kind of remote desktop server?
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10:16<inigo_>mordy, the old xdmcp (gdm, kdm, etc) or freenx
10:16<gsimmons>mordy: You may be interested in xrdp, though I've not used this myself.
10:16<inigo_>mordy, vnc is for "share" sesions, and "teminal serving" is for "starting" sesions remotely
10:17<inigo_>for example, gnome has "vino" for sharing sesions, and gdm for starting sesions remotely
10:18<mordy>well, i'd like to start sessions too
10:18<mordy>my goal is to have as much remote control of my box as possible
10:19<mordy>xrdp sounds interesting - sounds like it uses the existing rdp protocol, so i won't need another client
10:20<sheldonh>when i tell my customer "lenny gives you an idea of what stable will look like at the end of the year", i'm in the ballpark, right?
10:21<mordy>hmm.. but i don't know how to install anything which doesn't come in a deb file :(
10:22<sheldonh>mordy: you're not missing much
10:23<mordy>well, VNC is horrible
10:23<sheldonh>mordy: rdesktop
10:24<abrotman>oh not again
10:24<mordy>but rdesktop is a client, not a server
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10:25<sheldonh>mordy: ah sorry. didn't occur to me someone would want to run an rdp server on anything but a wintendo box :)
10:25<mordy>sheldon, the problem is that my client is a windows box
10:25<sheldonh>mordy: yes, that is indeed a problem
10:25<abrotman>mordy: you can use vnc
10:26<abrotman>or X windows from Win32
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10:26<sheldonh>abrotman: round and round we go :)
10:26<abrotman>vnc really isn't that bad
10:26<mordy>xwindows uses which protocol?
10:26<mordy>it is really that bad :|
10:26<abrotman>it is not
10:26<abrotman>unless you're on dialup
10:26<abrotman>which win32 vnc client are you using ?
10:26<mordy>no, i'm on a lan
10:27<sheldonh>is xceed still around? mordy, look for an x display server for windows
10:27<abrotman>which would likely be faster than rdp
10:28<abrotman>there's xming and cygwin/x
10:28<mordy>xceed and xming are clients? or do i also have to install the server
10:28<abrotman>no ...
10:29<abrotman>maybe going to lenny would just be easier .. it has xrdp
10:29<abrotman>oh .. cygwin/x has stagnated
10:29<sheldonh>mordy: i think your understanding of x windows is broken. when you "run x on your desktop", it is the client and the server
10:30<abrotman>on his linux desktop
10:30<sheldonh>mordy: for example, xterm is a client, rendering to an x display server running on the same box
10:30<sheldonh>mordy: but you could just as easily run xterm on one host and display it to a display server on another box
10:31<sheldonh>mordy: when i last used windows, there were x display servers for windows
10:31<mordy>and how would it connect to my linux box?
10:31<qq>loongson: are you useing a Godson (lemote) machine ?
10:32<sheldonh>mordy: um... your linux box would connect to it for display. it would connect to your linux box's xdm chooser. trust me, this'll be much easier to understand by just giving it a try :)
10:32<abrotman>you'll likely have to walk him through setting it up to allow connections
10:33<sheldonh>abrotman: was kinda hoping the display server's documentation would cover that :(
10:33<sheldonh>phew, the spammers are out in force this weekend
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10:34<Kjetil>How do I resend a report with reportbug ( failed at first due to wrong smtp settings )
10:34<mordy>hhmm.... looking at the program.. i've installed xming etc.
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10:35<sheldonh>mordy: good luck
10:35<sheldonh>woot! bug in the lenny beta2 installer (surprise!) :)
10:36<abrotman>sheldonh: i just used the daily .. worked fine .. but i did a stnard
10:36<sheldonh>abrotman: the beta2 installer doesn't prompt for a network mirror -- at all
10:37<sheldonh>abrotman: only option is "Continue without a network mirror". fixed by now, i imagine
10:37<abrotman>yeah .. i picked one
10:37<abrotman>did you configure your network ?
10:37<mordy>gah, this xming is not very easy to use
10:37<sheldonh>abrotman: yup. dhcp. network's fine
10:38<sheldonh>abrotman: i can do it post-install. just means i can't give the client _this_ iso :)
10:38<abrotman>not very easy?
10:38<abrotman>you'd give a client .. testing? evil bastard
10:38<mordy>well, i really should look at some documentation
10:38<abrotman>"some" :)
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10:40<mordy>but i don't know where to find it - i guess "xming debian" would be a good search
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10:42<abrotman>xming documentation
10:42<sheldonh>abrotman: yes. i'm helping them build a two-node san. i either give them backports and expect them to maintain the backports, or i base the work on lenny and trust that it'll release this year
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10:42<abrotman>sheldonh: difference between updating backports and updating lenny?
10:42<sheldonh>abrotman: did you get that i meant backports that i create for them, rather than
10:43<morph_>Kjetil: maybe you can find the temporary file stored in /tmp dir
10:43<sheldonh>abrotman: by the time they're a go, lenny should be stable
10:43<Kjetil>morph_: yeah. the tempfile is present
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10:43<abrotman>sheldonh: either
10:44<mordy>am i supposed to run the windows xming from a command line?
10:44<sheldonh>abrotman: but for lab testing, i need to produce a reference implementation and an operator's manual. if you ask me, this situation is an ideal candidate for testing, when testing has already entered beta2 or later
10:44<sheldonh>abrotman: unless, of course, the "freeze around the corner" rumours are exagerated :)
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10:45<abrotman>sheldonh: wouldn't be the first time
10:45<zabieru>lut tout le monde
10:45<dpkg>somebody said fr was Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debian-fr sur French users: for help in french, please go to #debian-fr on
10:45<abrotman>but hey .. if you've got extra dessert .. i'll take some!
10:45<zabieru>all english here ?
10:45<morph_>Kjetil: so simple take it and send it, via your preferred MUA or using -i FILE, --include=FILE option
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10:46<Kjetil>morph_: ah
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10:46<abrotman>zabieru: yes please
10:47-!-emonge [~emonge@] has joined #debian
10:48<zabieru>its first time for me (irc)
10:48<zabieru>what subject ?
10:48<sheldonh>abrotman: i imagine this is common in the windows world as well. the features you need for your new product are only available in a beta release of windows, so you build around the beta
10:49-!-zabieru [] has left #debian [Quitte]
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10:50<abrotman>sheldonh: perhaps .. though i'd probably wait til a bit closer to release :)
10:50<sheldonh>abrotman: yeah, i've agonised over this. :)
10:50<abrotman>because you're english!
10:50-!-_shai_ [] has joined #debian
10:50<sheldonh>abrotman: if it takes too long, they'll have to pay a retainer to manage their backports. that won't kill me either :)
10:50<qq>sheldonh: use sid than ?
10:50<mordy>gah, i find myself absolutely clueless about this xming
10:51<abrotman>qq: for a client?
10:51<sheldonh>qq: i don't think using sid has as much of a chance of being the right call as either of the other two options :)
10:51<abrotman>how is sid the right call for any deployment where stability matters?
10:52-!-mode/#debian [+l 362] by debhelper
10:52<sheldonh>qq: people are weird about things called unstable when it comes to shared storage :)
10:52<qq>oh, ok
10:52-!-Lounge [] has joined #debian
10:52<sheldonh>qq: whereas i can sell lenny as "soon to be stable". and if it doesn't soon become stable, it'll be "stable plus some arcane magic packages" ;)
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10:54<qq>sid isn't unstable , only his repository , not the same things
10:54<mordy>wait, can xming give me my entire desktop? or can i look at it as some kind of extension of putty whcih also allows me to run GUI
10:54<Lounge>has anyone successfully encrypted their /tmp partiton without the "permission denied" hassle?
10:54<sheldonh>qq: good luck explaining that one to the ceo :)
10:55<sheldonh>qq: i remember a version bump in exim that did nothing other than make it acceptable to a bank :)
10:55-!-mkeith [~mkeith@] has joined #debian
10:55<pumpkin0>qq: yes,but sid will never ever become stable. It's packages may find a way into stable, but will stay forever sid.
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10:56<Lounge>everytime i try to encrpyt the /tmp partiton like in crypttab, I can't login into my user account - because it can't write to the encrypted partition - is there a way around this?
10:56<abrotman>qq: don't recommend sid to anyone
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10:57<abrotman>mordy_: i think you can do either
10:57<mordy_>hmm... from what i've googled, it seems to only to add a gui to putty/ssh
10:58<qq>i use sid from ages on i386, powerpc, m68k ...
10:58<xhun>which is the chat in spanish
10:58<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
10:58<sheldonh>qq: lots of us use sid. but don't recommend it -- it's best left to others to decide they really want it
10:58<dpkg>i guess he is alone in the house left to him by the death of his parents, even though he's only feet away from the sister he's always been much closer than to anyone else. From his hidden room, he views life through concealed video cameras. Life is only real to him when he sees it on a monitor, and on most of those monitors is his sister.
10:59<xhun>graicas mano
10:59<mordy_>and i thought he is to hebrew as es is to espanol
10:59<sheldonh>wow, someone was bored when they wrote that factoid
10:59-!-spacepup [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
11:01<Hideo>wow who's the sick bastard that wrote that factoid?
11:02*Hideo looks in the direction of don
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11:04<Lounge>i have a question about /var/tmp if i make this as a partition and set it to "noexec,nosuid,rw" will that prevent packages from installing?
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11:05<abrotman>i think dpkg uses /tmp/
11:05<sheldonh>Lounge: that's a good question. package installation should really be using TMPDIR or /tmp, so i'd only expect violators to break
11:06<witte>!factinfo he
11:06<dpkg>he -- created by laurens__ <> at Mon Oct 31 17:56:27 2005 (984 days); it has been requested 26 times, last by mordy_, 7m 4s ago.
11:07<Lounge>sheldonh: i was reading up about securing or even maybe encrypting the /tmp and /var/tmp to prevent things like rootkit exploits and other things from taking over the system
11:07<mordy_>the "x display location" on putty - does that mean the linux box address?
11:08<Lounge>but then I thought that it might also cause a problem with the repos downloaded and updated the system too
11:08<badiane>if /var/tmp is being used by system services it would be better to separate it
11:08<Hideo>wait, i've never used putty, disregard that
11:08<sheldonh>Lounge: i do that sort of thing on systems with untrusted users, but it makes upgrades a pain
11:09<fxiny>encrypting /tmp preventing rootkits ? i don't see how
11:09<dpkg>[harden] D:SbD, or, or read
11:09<newsense>have to change permissions to allow write everytime ya need a package or upgrade than change back to read only
11:09<weasel>fxiny: sure
11:09<sheldonh>fxiny: encryption protects against information disclosure in the event of theft
11:10<weasel>fxiny: also light 5 candles around your monitor and make sure they never go out
11:10<fxiny>Lounge: i have a full etch encrypted : boot ext2 unencrypted , / home and swap encrypted
11:10<weasel>fxiny: once every 4 hours dance around your desk, chanting
11:10<fxiny>weasel: heheheh
11:10<yury>fxiny: try not to breathe
11:10<Lounge>i was able to encrypt the home and swap but not the tmp
11:10<weasel>this is serious stuff. if you encrypt your /tmp to ward off evil rootkits you've got to do it right
11:10<yury>it might break your HD
11:10<sheldonh>fxiny: if your /tmp is in / and you encrypt /, then you're already encrypting it
11:10<fxiny>yury: never when drinking :P
11:11<Lounge>the encrypted /tmp is giving me permission issues
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11:11<newsense>i sense sarcasm
11:11<sheldonh>Lounge: more likely, it's the noexec that's giving you permission issues
11:11<mordy_>hmm.. this still doesn't work
11:11<yury>fxiny: sheldonh has a point, if you REALLY want to be secure, mount / noexec
11:12<Lounge>in the fstab, the /dev/mapper/tmp was set at "defaults"
11:12<sheldonh>Lounge: encrypted filesystems have nothing to do with permissions
11:12<fxiny>sheldonh: i can install any rootkit i like in my system
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11:12<mordy_>well, i'm logged in via putty - i tried to start a gui app (gaim) - but it tells me that my connection was refused by the server
11:12<yury>fxiny: funny, so can I
11:12<yury>I can install any rootkit I like on your system
11:12<witte>mordy_: you need X forwarding and an X server on your windows
11:12<fxiny>why encryption should stop me ?
11:13<mordy_>i installed xming - but how do i configure it?
11:13<sheldonh>yury: that's not what i said
11:13<fxiny>i can ssh in so where's the problem ?
11:13<sheldonh>fxiny: encryption won't. but a noexec /tmp defeats many rootkits
11:13<Lounge>in the crypttab the tmp is set for the /dev/urandom - it encrypts but it won't let me login
11:13<Lounge>can't write to the /tmp
11:13<sheldonh>fxiny: and encrypting temporary storage (such as swap and tmp) can mitigate the risks associated with physical theft
11:13<witte>mordy_: never used xming
11:13<fxiny>sheldonh: noexec is a crappy security thing
11:13<sheldonh>fxiny: yes. but it is _a_ security thing
11:13<yury>actually it isn't
11:13<fxiny>sheldonh: cause it breaks upgrades
11:14<yury>it;s fairly good
11:14<sheldonh>fxiny: indeed. and that can be worked around
11:14<yury>noexec will break most kiddy scripts
11:14<fxiny>sheldonh: so is chrooting
11:14<sheldonh>fxiny: a read-only /usr breaks upgrades too, but that's not to say that a read-only /usr has zero value
11:14<yury>nodev doesn't hurt either
11:14<yury>unless it's / ;p
11:15<fxiny>sheldonh: is an old story : noexec , chroot and the like
11:15<sheldonh>fxiny: upgrades are an interesting case in system security, and represent something of an exception that needs to be considered and managed (assuming a sufficient threat level)
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11:16<fxiny>sheldonh: i'm using encrption cause i have resources and cause it works like a charm
11:16<yury>well, you can do upgrade the solaris live upgrade way
11:16<yury>upgrade a copy and reboot into it
11:16<mordy>i change the configuration in putty to have the x11 server on my windows box - in the xming log, it says that the connection was denied
11:16<fxiny>sheldonh: i ran a couple of ids and a baseliner like ftimes for the same reason
11:16<yury>fxiny: apparently not
11:17<yury>you said you couldn't log it
11:17<fxiny>but i don't even think to mount /tmp noexec
11:17<sheldonh>fxiny: okay, so given your threat level and criteria for mechanism selection (i.e. must stay out of my face), noexec /tmp and read-only /usr are definitely not for you. doesn't mean they're crappy -- just not for you
11:17<yury>noexec on /usr is...
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11:17<sheldonh>yury: for a moment, just a moment, pretend i'm not a complete retard :)
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11:18<yury>I never did
11:18<Lounge>and encryptions is basically just for with the puter is shut off and devices are un mounted
11:18<mordy>do i need to set permissions on xming? and how?
11:18<sheldonh>yury: suppose it depends on how freudian you are about misreads :)
11:18<yury>that is
11:18<yury>never said you were
11:18<sheldonh>no worries. it's saturday (well, here anyway) :)
11:19<yury>here to
11:19<yury>saturday morning
11:19<sheldonh>ah. _that_ hemisphere *sniggers*
11:19<yury>on 0 hours of speed and 6 hours of rewrite libmatroska in C
11:19<Lounge>anyone know where i can find a good tutorial on encrypting the /tmp partition the propper way? i tried google but its burred
11:20<yury>make /tmp like on Solaris
11:20<fxiny>Lounge: last tut i read about encryption was on , and no , i have not used it for my etch
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11:20<Lounge>it would appear that encrypting /tmp is more comlicated the just a simple swap
11:20<yury>then it's automatically safe when you shutdown/reboot
11:20<newsense> think theres info on it here if i remember correctly
11:21<fxiny>that is for encryption+lvm
11:21<sheldonh>if that link is no good, just google for luks
11:21<yury>mount -t ramfs /tmp
11:21<Lounge>i have my /home encrypted using the luks - dm-crypt method
11:21<fxiny>Lounge: mine is all encrypted and sanitized
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11:21<kmr83>I can't seem to compile my project when i include stdlib.h and math.h together in one file. Could this be debian specific?
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11:22<yury>I guarantee no one will be able to read it
11:22<sheldonh>Lounge: you can do exactly the same for tmp. of course, if you store the secret in an unencrypted filesystem, it's pointless :)
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11:22<fxiny>i've used scrub : lights on my hd
11:22<fxiny>and fast enouf
11:22<Lounge>sheldonh: so it's all one partition minus the /boot?
11:22<yury>kmr83: possibly
11:22<yury>a little more info would be nice
11:22<sheldonh>Lounge: i don't understand
11:23<yury>all one partition? ew bad idea
11:23<amphi>kmr83: sounds very odd - what error do you get?
11:23<fxiny>very bad
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11:23<kmr83>when I try to compile a my main.c, with includes `stdlib.h' and `math.h' I get undeclared symbol errors
11:23<yury>what's main.c
11:23<yury>and what symbols
11:23<fxiny>make boot ext2 , then encrypt / home and swap at least
11:23<kmr83>my homework..haha
11:23<fxiny>one pass is enough
11:23<yury>alright, then you screwed up
11:24<sheldonh>Lounge: if you're not audiovisual creator software, yury's suggestion of a memory filesystem is probably going to be _much_ easier
11:24<yury>what symbols
11:24<Lounge>i tried luksing the /tmp - it encrypted fine but.. there was a permission problem with /dev/mapper/tmp
11:24<kmr83>not really, i must have checkd it a million times
11:24<yury>well, if you have 4GB ram, then whatever
11:24<yury>audio video will fit there too
11:24<yury>unless it's a DVD
11:24<fxiny>4g ? i have 512
11:24<yury>I just upgraded
11:24<kmr83>when i compile with just one of the two, i dont get errors
11:24<yury>oh, who's seen a segfault in libpthread?
11:25<yury>I got one right before my computer locked up
11:25<yury>kmr83: you may be doing funny stuff with naming
11:25<yury>paste your code somewhere
11:25<dpkg>Please don't paste anything into the channel; use a paste site instead, like:,,, for pics. --- Also ask me: <pastebin pipe>
11:25<kmr83>you think so? I thought it might be me
11:25<kmr83>yeah ok
11:25<yury>paste it and I'll take a look
11:25<Lounge>some how chmod 1117 on the /dev/mapper/tmp is messed up
11:26<kmr83>but after i take another look at it, maybe i missed someting
11:26<sheldonh>you are _so_ not supposed to be doing that :)
11:26<yury>oh that's right, I finally have a use for this 64 bit system
11:26*yury coughs
11:26<sheldonh>Lounge: you change the permissions on the filesystem root directory (/tmp if it's mounted on /tmp), not the backing device :)
11:27<fxiny>Lounge: brw-rw----
11:27<sheldonh>yury: he means 1777 :)
11:27<mordy_>well, i managed to get xming to work - but at the end, it's still slow
11:27<mordy_>it's not as choppy as VNC, but it's still slow, and in my opinion, not as 'clean'
11:27*mordy_ sighs
11:27<fxiny>xming ? what's that ?
11:27<sheldonh>Lounge: i would chmod 700 /tmp, then mount /dev/mapper/tmp on /tmp, then chmod 1777 /tmp
11:27<yury>mordy_: try NX
11:27-!-faw [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
11:27<yury>it's like VNC
11:27<mordy_>nx server?
11:27<yury>but faster
11:27<Lounge>sheldonh: how is this done automatically?
11:28<mordy_>it doens't allow root login
11:28<mordy_>i tried it, it's ojk
11:28<yury>I think you can paste across windows/NX too
11:28<mordy_>but it also crashes my client when it's connected to an external display
11:28<yury>root logins == bad
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11:28<sheldonh>Lounge: i think luks is automated through /etc/crypttab
11:28<mordy_>yury, i'm merely in the process of learning this stuff - i don't care about security etc.
11:28<Lounge>for some reason luks isn;t chmodding the /dev/mapper/tmp at bootup
11:28<fxiny>root /dev/hdb2 /etc/cryptkeys/root.key luks
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11:29<yury>mordy_: xming should work fine
11:29<yury>did you enable compression?
11:29<yury>that would speed things up if you are on a slow connection
11:29<mordy_>i don't need compression, i'm over a LAN
11:29<yury>yeah, you do
11:29<sheldonh>Lounge: did you read what i said about permissions for the filesystem above?
11:29<fxiny>and this is fstab : /dev/mapper/root / ext3 defaults,errors=remount-ro 0 1
11:29<yury>are you on a gigabit connection?
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11:29<yury>100Mbit is barely passable
11:30<yury>10Mbit, and you can do the math yourself
11:30<yury>the image being transfered is too big
11:30<mordy_>not gigabit, but 100Mbit -
11:30<yury>it'll be choppy
11:30<mordy_>windows RDP works just fine -
11:30<sheldonh>mordy_: compression recommended
11:30<yury>RDP != X tunneling
11:30<sheldonh>mordy_: windows rdp is a completely different thing
11:30<yury>RXP > X tunneling
11:30<mordy_>i expect any good solution to work as good if not better than RDP
11:30<yury>RDP is approximately NX
11:30-!-kmr83 [] has left #debian []
11:30<badiane>you can set a rdp server on deb
11:31<yury>similar results
11:31<abrotman>badiane: xrdp isn't in etch
11:31<badiane>I've never used it but I've seen it in the debs
11:31<sheldonh>badiane: he knows :)
11:31<badiane>I'm always in testing
11:31<yury>and NX compressed more than normal SSH
11:31<abrotman>NX is not in debian ..
11:31<mordy_>i dobn't know
11:31<yury>you can getting it from their website
11:31<yury>although, the package is messed up
11:31<yury>they... erm have setuid scripts
11:31<abrotman>NOT IN DEBIAN
11:32<yury>they have a .deb
11:32<sheldonh>mordy_: you do. you know xrdp is available in debian, just not in etch
11:32<mordy_>how do i install it in etch?
11:32<yury>dpkg -i foo.deb
11:32*dpkg removes a lung from yury and replaces it with foo.deb
11:32<mordy_>will it mess up my system?
11:32<yury>damn it
11:32*yury kicks dpkg
11:32<mordy_>i'm laughing so hard
11:32<yury>dpkg -i lung
11:32*dpkg installs lung into yury's head with a bone saw and a few screws
11:32<badiane>not if you handle pinning well
11:33<abrotman>don't pin with etch
11:33<abrotman>either go to lenny or backport the package
11:33<badiane>I run testing, unstable and stable in that order of precedence
11:33<yury>I doubt they have it
11:33<yury>but check
11:33<abrotman>he can backport it himself easily
11:33<yury>then add etch-backports
11:33<abrotman>nevermind ..
11:33<yury>provided he meets the reqs.
11:33<abrotman>you're no help at all .. but hey .. keep going
11:34<abrotman>he'll just have to reinstall again ..
11:34<yury>I don't like doing dependence hunting
11:34<mordy_>yipee! another reinstall
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11:34<dpkg>First: See if the package has already been backported. Ask me about <backports>. If it hasn't, 1) Add a "deb-src ..." line ONLY for sid to your sources.list. 2) apt-get update 3) apt-get install build-essential; apt-get build-dep packagename;apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. If you are just wanting to change the compilation options, ask me about <package recompile>, or see <uupdate> if sid is too old
11:35<abrotman>which is infinitely better than pinning
11:35<yury>yeah, and watch build-dep drag half of sid in
11:35<fxiny>sheldonh: i did not install it from scratch : i've cloned one of my etch in a luks layer
11:35<abrotman>and unless he's using nvidia hardware .. going to lenny should be rather painless
11:35<yury>I would skip the package in this case
11:35<yury>and I didn't say pin it
11:35<abrotman>i didn't say you did
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11:35<mordy_>i'm still all confused
11:36<fxiny>sheldonh: splitting the only system partition / in / and boot
11:36<yury>we've done our job
11:36*yury disappears for a bit
11:36<mordy_>to confuse me eh?
11:36*sheldonh wanders off in search of food
11:36<abrotman>mordy_: you can't figure out xming ?
11:36<abrotman>or it's "slow"?
11:36<yury>mordy_: you have several alternatives
11:36<yury>stick with xming, try NX, try xrdp
11:36<abrotman>avoid NX
11:37<yury>it works well for me
11:37<yury>I mean, it's a bit of a shitty package
11:37<yury>and you need to tidy it up a bit
11:37<mordy_>i'm looking at xrdp
11:37-!-kia [] has quit []
11:37<yury>but it works well
11:37<mordy_>i'm just trying to figure out how to install it on etch
11:37<abrotman>at this point .. i'd suggest he go to lenny
11:37<yury>I'll second
11:37<fxiny>wt4x ! google saying xming is for windows !
11:37-!-Lounge [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
11:37<yury>etch may be stable
11:37<yury>but lenny is almost as good
11:38<abrotman>mordy_: what is your video card?
11:38-!-mordy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:38<abrotman>fxiny: cygwin/x is outdated
11:38<mordy_>not nvidia
11:38<abrotman>mordy_: which one ?
11:38<fxiny>ahhh the xorg port !
11:38<mordy_>mobility radeon x600
11:38<abrotman>but you're using the 'radeon' driver? not fglrx ?
11:38<fxiny>abrotman: ok
11:38<amphi>that's supported by the xorg driver, no?
11:38<abrotman>yes it is
11:38<abrotman>i just want to make sure he won't have to rebuild the fglrx
11:39<mordy_>i have some other problems with the video card. it doesn't work with an external display very well
11:39<mordy_>no calibration
11:39<abrotman>!tell mordy_ about etch->lenny
11:39<abrotman>mordy_: be aware that not everything in lenny will work perfectly
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11:39<abrotman>it's uh .. about as stable as windows? :)
11:40<abrotman>wait .. that's not fair to lenny
11:40<digerati>use sid.
11:40<abrotman>shut up
11:40<abrotman>!sid upgrade
11:40<dpkg>Repeat after me: Sid is NOT AN UPGRADE! Sid is meant for developers and testers, so stay away from it if you're neither. Use <stable> or <testing> instead.
11:40<mordy_>one sec..
11:41<abrotman>mordy_: if anyone recommends that you use sid/unstable .. ignore them .. they likely don't know what they're talking about
11:41-!-mordy_ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:41<vook>Just watch Toy Story if you'd like to see just how unstable Sid is.
11:41<abrotman>fail ...
11:41<fxiny>i've beeen using sid in woody and : ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
11:41<abrotman>yeah .. and see .. fxiny is nuts in the head
11:42<fxiny>still :)
11:42-!-rjent_ [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
11:42<abrotman>pine nuts .. rattling around in there
11:42<fxiny>sid can make you nuts like scud :P
11:42-!-alphad [~alphad@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:43<fxiny>btw : any plan for a decent release name like scud ?
11:44<sheldonh>we're going to need another sequel at this rate
11:44<fxiny>i don't like lenny as a name
11:44<abrotman>we still haven't hit Stinky Pete!
11:44<abrotman>or Buggy
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11:45<mordy_>hmm.. this xming is pretty interesting, it allows me to run linux apps in windoze windows
11:45<fxiny>mordy_: you happy ?
11:45<fxiny>wt4x !
11:45<abrotman>you can also use it to connect via xdcmp
11:45<abrotman>erm .. nevermind .. poorly worded
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11:45<dpkg>i heard xdmcp is if using a recent xdm .deb, comment last line in /etc/X11/xdm/xdm-config to enable xdmcp at all! also edit /etc/X11/xdm/Xaccess to specify which clients are allowed to use XDMCP - a single line of "*" means "anyone in the world"
11:45<sheldonh>mordy_: welcome to x windows :)
11:46<Curtis>when ever i enter sudo... i get "curtis is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
11:46<fxiny>i can only accept using ONLY perl on the f* winblow
11:46<mordy_>but the problem is that i don't want the server on my client - this thing doesn't have a good processor - i only use it because it's lightweight and versatile - physically
11:46<fxiny>if lost in a desert
11:46<sheldonh>Curtis: what do you want to happen instead?
11:46<digerati>Hey I need some help with wireless. I can get iwlist to show my network but I can't get on it.
11:47<Curtis>sheldonh: i would like it to allow me to isntall add/remove programs in debian
11:47<sheldonh>mordy_: all you have running on the windows box is a display server. the applications execute on the linux box
11:47<fxiny>badiane: yes : it will be reported to YOU : check you mbox then
11:47<sheldonh>Curtis: and what have you put in /etc/sudoers to allow curtis to do that?
11:47-!-ffws|hathe is now known as hathe
11:47<fxiny>badiane: tab completion
11:47<mordy_>yes, but i don't want the display server on my box - i'm usign a USB DVI card with very little memory
11:47<fxiny>Curtis: yes : it will be reported to YOU : check you mbox :P
11:48<Curtis>fxiny: is that a joke?
11:48<gawz>fxiny: LOL
11:48<fxiny>Curtis: nope . you should get an email
11:48<sheldonh>mordy_: then an x display server running on the windows box is not for you. you can scratch it off the list and move on to xrdp
11:48-!-snheh [~assis@] has joined #debian
11:48<Curtis>fxiny: i have not recieved an email
11:48<fxiny>gawz: ;)
11:49<Curtis>sheldonh: how can i view "etc/sudoers"?
11:49<mordy_>hmm... now can i run xrdp on etch withouth screwing it up?
11:49<sheldonh>Curtis: you'd need to be root
11:49-!-pumpkin0 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
11:49<abrotman>mordy_: to be honest .. it would probably be easier for you to go to Lenny
11:49<Curtis>ok i can do that.
11:49<mordy_>how do i go to lenny? can i just upgrade?
11:49<sheldonh>mordy_: weren't you reading when dpkg explained about simple backports?
11:49<fxiny>Curtis: that's strange , fix your procmail ?
11:50-!-snheh [~assis@] has left #debian []
11:50<abrotman>!tell mordy_ about etch->lenny
11:50<sheldonh>mordy_: i'm getting the feeling that telling you stuff is a very poor investment
11:50<qq>loongson: hello >[16:31:07] <qq> loongson: are you useing a Godson (lemote) machine ?
11:50-!-hathe is now known as ffws|hathe
11:50<Curtis>sheldonh: do i have to boot into recovery mode?
11:50<sheldonh>Curtis: if you've lost the root password, probably yes
11:50<abrotman>mordy_: the bot didn't tell you ?
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11:51<mordy_>ahh.. now it did
11:51-!-slaxz [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:51<mordy_>so i just change all the sources to "lenny" and then i'm with lenny?
11:51<Curtis>no i know thr root password
11:51<sheldonh>Curtis: so become root using the su utility
11:51-!-ffws|hathe is now known as hathe
11:51<gawz>su -
11:51<Curtis>sheldonh: how can i do that?
11:51<sheldonh>Curtis: then do what you want with sudoers (man sudoedit and man sudoers for more)
11:52<sheldonh>Curtis: how can you use the su utility? you type su and press enter
11:52<mordy_>would i also be able to run etch packages on lenny?
11:52<sheldonh>haha! my wife just said "whatever you feel is right". here comes the pizza!
11:53-!-ChanOp [shani@2001:5c0:84dc:1:2::19] has quit [Quit: changing servers]
11:53<sheldonh>mordy_: not recommended
11:53<fxiny>what f* sudo up are : man sudo , man sudoers . man visudo , it will never be popular :P
11:53-!-ChanOp [shani@2001:5c0:84dc:1:2::19] has joined #debian
11:53<mordy_>hmm.. is there another alternative?
11:53<Curtis>anyone know how to add the add/remove option to the applications menu?
11:53<abrotman>mordy_: to what?
11:53<mordy_>to install xrdp
11:53<abrotman>mordy_: to get xrdp ?
11:53<abrotman>mordy_: you can try to backport it
11:53*sheldonh despairs for mordy
11:54<mordy_>hehe, ask the bot to tell me about backport
11:54<abrotman>mordy_: if it sucks in too much of another release .. bad things could happen
11:54<syntech>Curtis, type nano /etc/sudoers and under root ALL = (ALL) ALL type username ALL = (ALL) ALL
11:54<abrotman>mordy_: /msg dpkg ssb
11:54*abrotman runs
11:54<syntech>you must already be in su mode
11:54<fxiny>all all ? hmmm
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11:55<Curtis>bash: syntax error near unexpected token
11:55<noflash>or he could use visudo
11:56<fxiny>and nano ! can't stand nanoids : first thing you should learn vim
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11:56<badiane>fxiny: yep
11:56<syntech>nano vim i don't care really
11:56<yury>as long as it's not emacs?
11:56<Curtis>syntech: bash: syntax error near unexpected token
11:57<syntech>Curtis, o_O
11:57-!-digerati [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:57<noflash>sytech, '# This file MUST be edited with the 'visudo' command as root.'
11:57-!-Marillion [] has joined #debian
11:57<syntech>exactly what did you type.
11:57-!-witte [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:57<yury>it's not really a MUST
11:57<syntech>noflash, never tried visudo :<
11:57<yury>more like a strong SHOULD
11:58<fxiny>yury: wc -l .emacs >> 80
11:58<yury>what's 80?
11:58-!-alanhaggai [alanhaggai@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:58<fxiny>my .emacs lines number
11:58<yury>not an append
11:59<yury>wc: .emacs: No such file or directory
11:59<syntech>i have problems typing things in Vim :\
11:59<syntech>i know how to :q though XD
11:59<yury>try ed
11:59<yury>it works better
11:59<yury>it's the "standard"
11:59-!-Curtis [~Curtis@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
11:59<fxiny>yury: ls: .vim: No such file or directory
11:59<yury>text editor
11:59<fxiny>still i use vim
11:59-!-cgreco [] has joined #debian
11:59<yury>1 .vimrc
11:59<vook>Curtis: gnome-control-center
11:59<yury>1 line in mine
12:00<yury>it's actually set ts=4
12:00<yury>using python all the time
12:00<yury>and it's a same setting
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12:01<fxiny>one ? oh here you are : wc -l .jedrc > 1
12:01<syntech>i like vim actually... mmm
12:01<syntech>this... is very comfortable
12:01*syntech rapes
12:01<syntech>nano just sucks actually
12:01<noflash> /ignore -replies syntech
12:01<mordy_>i'm still confused. if i get xrdp - will it also update my libraries as well?
12:01<mordy_>since there's no backport for xrdp
12:01<fxiny>jed is somehow buggy but has nice syntax hilights
12:02-!-mode/#debian [+l 354] by debhelper
12:03-!-woozy [~bug@] has joined #debian
12:03<abrotman>mordy_: if it needs to .. this is why i said to go to lenny
12:04-!-mtn [] has joined #debian
12:04<mordy_>err.. a different question: does the ssh server start at startup? or does it only start when i log in?
12:04-!-oahong_ [~oahong@] has joined #debian
12:04<fxiny>that's logic : why installing etch now then upgrade to lenny soon ? just go for lenny
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12:05<fxiny>mordy_: ls /etc/init.d
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12:07<mordy_>hehe, so many questions i have, i've gotta be grateful to you all
12:07-!-abrotman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:07<mordy_>of course, i'm just saying that to appease you
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12:07<badiane>mordy_: he he he
12:07<mordy_>how do i get back to the console in putty?
12:07<syntech>night peoples
12:08<badiane>mordy_: we also accept first borns and stuff like that
12:08<mordy_>badiane, i'm actually a cohen - you give the firstborns to me
12:08<syntech>and i'm a starvin
12:09-!-oahong_ [~oahong@] has quit []
12:09<mordy_>not only am i a cohen, i'm only a half hour walk from the temple
12:09*fxiny preferes Temple Tudor who kill bamboo.mp3
12:09<mordy_>so if you want, i'll give you a discount next time you're required to give me your firstborn, how's that?
12:10-!-mtn [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
12:10-!-hacker47 [~hacker47@] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
12:10<mordy_>but... how to get the console back in putty - is there another way other than just opening a new window?
12:11<vook>mordy_: eh, can you ctrl-z (suspend) and the bg %1 ?
12:12<yury>you can also duplicate your session
12:12<yury>right click on the entry in the taskbar
12:12<yury>and select duplicate session
12:13<yury>09:04 < mordy_> err.. a different question: does the ssh server start at startup? or does it only start when i log in?
12:13<yury>that depends
12:13-!-transiency [] has joined #debian
12:13<yury>usually it starts out of rc.d scripts
12:13-!-transiency [] has quit []
12:13<yury>however, it is not all that uncommon to have sshd run out of inetd
12:13<yury>in which case, yes it starts when you connect
12:13<yury>usually, on debian systems, it starts at boot
12:15-!-xauth [] has joined #debian
12:15<yury>anyone know why my update-notifer icon changed?
12:15-!-droot [] has joined #debian
12:15-!-mordy^ [] has joined #debian
12:15<mordy^>well, that's not what i wanted :|
12:15-!-yermat [] has joined #debian
12:15<mordy^>suspend did what it did, and ended my iceape session
12:15<mordy^>or rather suspended it
12:15-!-droot [] has quit []
12:16<mordy^>maybe it was some kind of ploy to silence me :->
12:16<vook>mordy_: next time just load it with an & after the command, i.e. iceape &
12:16<yury>you can type bg
12:16<mordy^>bg as in background?
12:16<yury>to background a suspended command
12:17<yury>for example
12:17*yury munches on a gnome
12:17<fxiny>hehehe gnomish icons :P
12:17-!-Monnick [] has joined #debian
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12:17<mordy^>hmm... "no absolute path found for shell: bg"
12:18<yury>what did you do?
12:18<mordy^>"xterm bg"
12:18<yury>no no
12:18<yury>xterm &
12:18<mordy^>oh oh
12:18<yury>where ^Z is control Z
12:18<wuseldusel>is it normal that apt-get upgrade installs discover-data and afterwards apt-get autoremove wants to remove it again? (using testing)
12:18<mordy^>oh, but doesn't that suspend my program?
12:18-!-pumpkin0 [] has joined #debian
12:19<mordy^>it just freezes my xterm window when i do ctrl z
12:19<yury>now type bg
12:19<yury>the light!!!!
12:19<mordy^>the fire!
12:19<mordy^>it works
12:19<yury>the murderous rage
12:19-!-mordy_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:19<mordy^>i've been enlightened
12:19<mordy^>the harlot
12:20<mordy^>i've been infected :||
12:20<yury>with a heart?
12:20<sheldonh>just what the world needed, another x girlfriend ;)
12:20<mordy^>i don't know :-??
12:21<mordy^>nah, i have a girlfriend. the previous one wasn't a harlot. she was just asexual
12:22-!-mode/#debian [+l 360] by debhelper
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12:23<sheldonh>mordy^: sounds more like a wife *duck*
12:24<mordy^>now how do i find the path to the startup configuration again?
12:24<yury>startup configuration?
12:25<mordy^>i guess
12:25<yury>keep in mind, not everything there gets run
12:25<yury>not necessarily, at least
12:25<yury>seriously, why is my update-notifier icon different?
12:26<xauth>because updates have become available? :-)
12:26<yury>no, it looks different
12:26<yury>it used ot look normal
12:26<yury>and now it looks like a gear
12:26<yury>with a hand over it
12:26-!-yermat [] has left #debian []
12:26<fxiny>is it chewing over a connection ?
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12:27<yury>debsums seems to think everything is fine
12:27<yury>at least the packages it has
12:29-!-kanru [] has joined #debian
12:29<mordy^>is my init.d supposed to be empty?
12:30<xauth>mordy: I think not!
12:30<yury>reinstall time?
12:30-!-Kerz [~Psycotic@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:30<mordy^>maybe i navigated to the wrong path
12:30<yury>cd /etc/init.d
12:31<mordy^>ls is search?
12:31<yury>ls is list
12:31-!-kanru [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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12:33<newsense>when i run netstat -l i see *:auth and localhost:smtp are listening, what is auth for
12:34-!-muammar [muammar@] has joined #debian
12:34<mordy^>hmm... i can't open it still :(
12:34<xauth>auth is probably the ident protocol.
12:34<Laeborg>any command to list all users on my shell ?
12:35<mordy^>when i try "ee /etc/init.d" i just get a blank line
12:35<xauth> /etc/init.d is a directory, not a file!
12:36*xauth blinks.
12:36<newsense>ok and localhost:smtp is listening too, is it listening for connections from the internet ?
12:36<mordy^>how do i add things there?
12:36<qq>ls /etc/init.d
12:36<newsense>its listed under Active Internet connections (only servers)
12:36<xauth>The internet at large is probably not going to be able to connect to you via the loopback network.
12:37-!-ChanOp [shani@2001:5c0:84dc:1:2::19] has quit [Quit: changing servers]
12:38<mordy^>it works now - i can see it
12:38<mordy^>ee is a text editor
12:38-!-ChanOp [shani@2001:5c0:84dc:1:2::19] has joined #debian
12:38<yury>is it like ed?
12:39-!-jegc [~jegc@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:39<mordy^>i don't know what ed is
12:39<yury>try it
12:39*yury ducks
12:39<mordy^>i tried it, nothing happend
12:39<xauth>yury: that's cruel.
12:39<mordy^>err..was i supposed to try it?
12:39<yury>it's the "Standard" text editor
12:39<yury>at least on Solaris
12:39<newsense>xauth: how can you tell that is the loopback network
12:39*xauth cringes.
12:40<xauth>You said localhost.
12:40<yury>says loopback, doesn't it?
12:40<xauth>localhost ( is normally connected to the loopback network.
12:40<mordy^>now how do i add stuff to init.d?
12:40<newsense>oh ok duh
12:40-!-acu [ida01@] has joined #debian
12:40<acu>is lenny on 2.6.25 kernel ?
12:40<newsense>xauth:thanks for answering my stupid question
12:41<yury> The ed utility is the standard text editor. If file is
12:41<yury> specified, ed simulates an e command (see below) on the
12:41<yury> named file. That is, the file is read into ed's buffer so
12:41<yury> that it can be edited.
12:41-!-yury was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
12:41-!-yury [] has joined #debian
12:41<fxiny>yury: heheheh
12:41<yury>4 lines
12:41<yury>come on
12:41<yury>4 lines
12:41-!-infernix [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:41-!-Lounge [] has joined #debian
12:41<amphi>!tell yury -about enter
12:41*xauth snickers.
12:41-!-kudlaty [] has joined #debian
12:41<mordy^>now how do i enter things in init.d
12:42<mordy^>or maybe i'll just google
12:42<fxiny>man update-rc.d
12:42<yury>I didnn't get anything
12:42<yury>ah, there
12:42<amphi>acu: .24
12:42<yury>I didn't
12:42<yury>hit enter
12:43<yury>it's called unbuffered IP
12:43<kudlaty>i've got a little problem ;S , i installed conky , but there's no configuration file , i re-install it but nothing...
12:43<mordy^>i don't understand a thing in the man
12:43<Cheatah_>hmm, this is odd
12:43-!-newsense [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:43<acu>aphi - thanks - I tried to help someone to install lenny daily (that was yesterday) in an AMD 64 laptop and it did not install
12:43*yury returns to writing his XMMS2 plugin
12:43<mordy^>i just want to have my ssh server start
12:43<amphi>acu: sata problems?
12:44<Cheatah_>if i want to install postfix with aptitude install postfix, it wants to install about 40 packages
12:44<xauth>mordy: if you have ssh installed, that should be automatic.
12:44<Cheatah_>the only missing dependency is ssl-cert
12:44*amphi has no idea how the lenny installer is these days
12:44<Lounge>mordy^: is this an .sh script you want stared at boot?
12:44<Cheatah_>if i do aptitude install postfix ssl-cert, it just installs those two packages
12:44<mordy^>i don't know :-?
12:44<Lounge>a script
12:45<mordy^>all i want is ssh at boot - i don't know if it's a script
12:45<Lounge>that you want started during bootup
12:45<Cheatah_>i thought dependency checking was a bit smarter than that :(
12:45<xauth>mordy: install package openssh-server.
12:45<mordy^>it's installed, i'm using it now -
12:45-!-Kerz [~Psycotic@] has joined #debian
12:46-!-athena [] has joined #debian
12:46-!-athena is now known as athena18
12:46-!-mordy [] has joined #debian
12:46-!-mordy^ [] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.67+ [Iceape 1.0.9/2007050500]]
12:46<xauth>mordy: then the script to start it at boot is there: /etc/init.d/ssh
12:46<mordy>ahh, which is already there
12:46<athena18>Hi. I'm using Etch with a KDE window manager.
12:47<athena18>I'm having problems finding a suitable firewall...Firestarter is the only one i've sucessfully used in the past (for Linux) but it won't stay open
12:47<Cheatah_>the question is: are the scripts in /etc/rc#.d there too?
12:47-!-newsense [] has joined #debian
12:47<Cheatah_>if not: update-rc.d
12:47<Lounge>well i had no luck trying to get this damn encrypted /tmp partition to work
12:47<athena18>The only firewall i used reguarly was Zone Alarm (firwalls weren't my speciality in windows either)
12:48<Lounge>still can't get around this chmod 1117 issue
12:48<xauth>mordy: do you have any reason to believe sshd will not be started at boot?
12:48<Cheatah_>the defaults should do, so: update-rc.d ssh defaults
12:48<athena18>OTOH most of the rest of the system si working
12:48<mordy>i don't know, it started at boot - it works
12:48<xauth>mordy: Good. Then there's no problem.
12:48<Cheatah_>the exactly what is the problem?
12:48<athena18>is this the right channel or is for more complicated stuff?
12:49<Cheatah_>a suitable firewall for exactly what?
12:49<amphi>!info firestarter etch
12:49<athena18>I've checked the wiki...almost all are based on scripts
12:49-!-pumpkin0 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:49<fxiny>kudlaty: check /usr/share/doc/conky for examples
12:49*xauth spits on firewalls.
12:50<Cheatah_>ok, and what is wrong with scripts?
12:50<dpkg>firestarter: (gtk program for managing and observing your firewall), section admin, is optional. Version: 1.0.3-1.3 (etch), Packaged size: 385 kB, Installed size: 1476 kB
12:50-!-ananth [~ananth@] has joined #debian
12:50<athena18>amphi---it works for gnome...firestarter won't stay open without the root terminal open in kde(so far)
12:50<athena18>i'm using kde
12:50<athena18>is there a way to get firestarter to work in kde...that would be a perfect solution
12:50<Lounge>iptables is firewalling your puter
12:50<athena18>yes, but i don't have it set up
12:50<athena18>the ip tables that is
12:51<Lounge>but you can use firestarter as a gui interface for iptables
12:51<fxiny>athena18: have you read/installed shorewall-doc ?
12:51<athena18>Yes, here is the problem
12:51<amphi>athena18: try running it from the term and then doing disown
12:51<athena18>i read the info on's too complicated and not easily configurable
12:51<athena18>i know only a little of the command line
12:52<athena18>doing disown?
12:52-!-Cheatah_ is now known as Cheatah
12:52<fxiny>firehol maybe is easier
12:52<Lounge>i would use firestarter
12:52<athena18>it didn't look better
12:52<Lounge>acutally i do use it :D
12:52<athena18>who is lounge?
12:52<badiane>athena18: install webmin and use it to manage shorewall. If you need that degree of control. I used firestarter a long time ago and didn't like it.
12:52<athena18>a bot or a real person? lol
12:52<amphi>athena18: run the command with an '&' after it, then type 'disown' and hit enter; you should then be able to close the term without firestarter terminating
12:53<Cheatah>i just use raw iptables-save and iptables-restore
12:53<amphi>pretty silly name for an iptables gui IMHO
12:53<acu>can anyone tell me how to install debian from usb stick ? - I have always installed it by burning net iinstall cd
12:53<Cheatah>if you want very specific rules, you can't do it with GUI tools anyway
12:53<athena18>I'm going to give the & a try---does that disown it from gnome then?
12:53<amphi>acu: I expect the install guide will tell you
12:53<newsense>try guarddog for a gui but by hand is better
12:53<badiane>athena18: as soon as you take the time to understand shorewal and the order to files to edit it's nice and easy.
12:53<amphi>athena18: from the term you started it from
12:53<athena18>i started it from the root term
12:54<athena18>when i closed the root term it shut down
12:54<Cheatah>athena18: are you behind a NAT router?
12:54<athena18>no firewall at all
12:54<athena18>i don't care about my personal stuff...but some of my email is not mine to share
12:54<badiane>amphi: doesn't init inherit unowned background processes anyway?
12:54<Cheatah>ah, that's a good reason to want one, indeed
12:54<athena18>but i'm sick of doing everything from gmail which i hate
12:55<athena18>guarddog didn't work for me
12:55<athena18>i ended up cutting my machine off from the net...even when i uninstalled it no help, had to redo the whole install
12:55<newsense>i used it once and i got the true stealth on shields up and it took like 1 minute to setup
12:56<athena18>ok but keep in week area is windows i only ever got one to work (zone alarm)
12:56<athena18>and i'm still learning IRC
12:56<athena18>OTOH i've used linux for a couple of years
12:56<newsense>were all learning
12:56<amphi>badiane: unowned?
12:57<mordy>i don't know hwo much there is to learn about IRC
12:57<mordy>i've been using IRC for a couple of years, but i'm just learning linux now
12:57<athena18>how to send a message to a person and not eveyone---like some people are doing here
12:57<athena18>mordy---so we are in a similar boat!
12:57<athena18>how to create a channel
12:57<athena18>how to find the interesting one's
12:57<mordy>well, i think linux provides a steeper learning curve
12:58<athena18>you are likely right
12:58<mordy>i wonder if the proprietary ATI drivers work better
12:58<Lounge>i need to chmod a folder to allow all user to be able to read/wirte,creat & delete folders & files but i don't what chmod [number] to use
12:58<athena18>i only moved to a full debian recently
12:58<mordy>anyone know?
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12:58<amphi>mordy: unlikely - fglrx is horrid, by all accounts
12:58<amphi>mordy: what card?
12:58<athena18>usually the proprietary drivers DO work better
12:58<mordy>mobility radeon x600
12:59<mordy>i'm having problems using an external display
12:59*amphi suspects PEBCAK
12:59<badiane>amphi: yes, if the owner of the process exited and the process is still running it becomes unowned.
12:59<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, pebkac is Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair, or PEBCAK. PEBMAC, PICNIC. PEBRHAL, or
13:00<sleipnir>hi guys, Is there an application to make a tracker think that we are uploading more that we are really doing. I am not a leecher the problem is that most of the time my download is at 50KB but the upload is at 4KB
13:00<amphi>badiane: right, if the child does not terminate, it's reparented to init
13:00<fxiny>ubergoth ?
13:00<athena18>so to recap if i input firestarter & to the root console it would then work outside it?
13:00<dpkg>[radeon] A brand of graphics processing units by ATI., For chipsets prior to R500 (ie. models up to and including the X1050), use the "radeon" xorg driver and optionally install 'libgl1-mesa-dri' for 3D acceleration. Alternatively, the non-free <fglrx> driver can be used (all models, usually better 3D performance/features). See also <radeonhd>.
13:00<badiane>amphi: yep
13:00<badiane>amphi: screen
13:00<athena18>basically i need a way to hack it to work in KDE or a similar program---it works in a way i understand
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13:01<athena18>i'm sure the script based one's are more powerful...but not what i need
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13:01<amphi>athena18: try apt-cache search iptables kde
13:01<Cheatah>well, if you are just blocking all traffic from the outside
13:01<Cheatah>just iptables will do just fine
13:02<newsense>athena18, if you install guarddog ill show ya how to use it
13:02<newsense>is easy to use and works well in kde
13:02<athena18>this was the response from the terminal:
13:02<athena18>fireflier-client-kde - Interactive firewall rule creation tool - QT client
13:02<athena18>guarddog - firewall configuration utility for KDE
13:02<athena18>guidedog - NAT/masquerading/port-forwarding configuration tool for KDE
13:02<athena18>kmyfirewall - iptables based firewall configuration tool for KDE
13:02-!-athena18 was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
13:02-!-athena18 [] has joined #debian
13:02<athena18>why was i kicked off...i tried to put up what i had gotten back from root
13:03<dpkg>Do not paste more than 3 lines to this channel. Instead, use: or or for pics. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste!
13:03<dpkg>paster is your friendly Debian pastebot. Visit to have paster paste your results. Ask me about <pastebin> if you want to use another site.
13:03<athena18>cheetah: i want to be able to control info in and out.
13:03<amphi>!pastebin pipe
13:03<dpkg>Download and install libwww-mechanize-perl. Then pipe your output to perl You can also "aptitude install pastebinit" if you are on lenny/sid.
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13:03<athena18>be able to use Ktorrent,
13:03<athena18>and other programs
13:04-!-Lounge [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
13:04<fxiny>ktorrent ? i am a rebel so i use rtorrent :P
13:04-!-emonge [~emonge@] has quit [Quit: emonge]
13:04<athena18>possibly close off holes when i know i won't be using them (ie only open up some when i'm using Ktorrent)
13:04<athena18>and keep people then out of some systems.
13:04<amphi>athena18: a bittorrent client needs inbound connections to reach its port[s]
13:04<Cheatah>yeah, well, i don't think iptables is too hard
13:04<athena18>yes...but can i block them off when i'm not using the torrent program?
13:04<athena18>only turn them on when i want
13:05<amphi>fxiny: oh you outlaw! it is quite pleasant, I agree
13:05<newsense>athena set it up so they are not statically opened
13:05<Cheatah>just allow anything outbound, block everything inbound, except a few tcp ports inbound
13:05<fxiny>amphi: ;)
13:05<athena18>that might work
13:05<newsense>athena18, i told ya id help ya with a simple to use gui to iptables and id show ya how to do it
13:06<athena18>ok newsense ---it was guarddog you were suggesting?
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13:06<athena18>I'll check if i have it installed
13:06<fxiny>get a one-minute conf script like firehole , go on line and quickly read a decent iptable tutorial then install shorewall
13:07<fxiny>if you can't stand people laughing at you : read again that decent tut and write your own script
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13:08<mordy>hmm... the new ATI driver gives many options- if only i knew what they meant
13:08<mordy>and if only there was a gui :p
13:09<fxiny>but remember : shorewall is one of the best ever bash script and lenny offers two shorewall versions : bash and PERL
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13:11<fxiny>you like diagram and stuff like that ? shorewall comes with pretty nice docs
13:11<yury>I write my own firewall scripts
13:12<yury>mostly because all the gui ones break as soon as I try to do anything
13:12<fxiny>i use shorewall cause i like it
13:12<Cheatah>yury: well, since i never use X and only use linux from the console, so do i :P
13:12<yury>there is a nice firewall
13:12<amphi>!prize fxiny
13:12*dpkg gives fxiny a beer.
13:12<yury>it asks you for every single connection
13:12*fxiny burps
13:12<yury>I live shiny compiz
13:13<amphi>when I run compiz, I like to keep it dismal
13:14<amphi>'un-shiny', dull ;)
13:14<yury>I took it a dpressing
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13:15<yury>one draw back is that transparencies make it seem like you have dirst on your screen when something show sthrough
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13:17<mordy>gah, i just want a normal external display
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13:22<amphi>mordy: any use to you?
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13:23<athena>hello again
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13:24<mordy>looking at it..
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13:29<mordy>hmm... it doesn't work with it
13:29<mordy>give me a "BadMatch" error whenever i try to change anything
13:30<mordy>the externa dispay is working, it's just the image that's bad
13:30<sheldonh>is there a file on * that contains all the apt-keys for sid?
13:30<badiane>shorewall can take a little while to understand their files. Their use of zones are cool. You can have one flat ip space and simply divide that
13:30<mordy>i'm having a feeing that the monitor isn't 'communicating' well enough with the card
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13:38<Zoup>why pidstat from sysstat pacakge is not available in debian ?
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13:39<amphi>it is, at least in testing
13:40<mordy>i can't get xrandr to work, maybe i'm using the wrong syntax
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13:42<mordy>i'm just lost :(
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13:52<athena_>tu---now have a running firewall
13:52<athena_>everything on stealth
13:52<mordy>how do i set up multiple displays?
13:53<athena_>it's funny...i used to use that web page---back when i was using zone alarm
13:53<athena_>life is sometimes a big circle
13:53<newsense>its pretty popular
13:53<athena_>mordy: what type of window manager are you using
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13:54<mordy>err.. the standard one -gnome i guess?
13:54<amphi>athena_: teh gibs0n?
13:54<mordy>i don't know - i didn't change anything
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13:54<athena_>and what do you what to know?
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13:54<athena18>eh amphi?
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13:54<athena18>yes grc
13:55<mordy>i have an external monitor, i don't know how to set its resolution
13:55<athena18>external monitor?
13:55<mordy>the mian box is a laptop
13:55-!-xzu [] has joined #debian
13:55<athena18>do you need to use both at the same time?
13:55<mordy>i'd rather only use the external one, as it's much brighter
13:56-!-Jamez [] has joined #debian
13:56<mordy>but i don't know how to switch between displays
13:56<mordy>i only know how to turn the external dispay off by using radeontool
13:56<athena18>i don't know much about gnome
13:56<athena18>but could you go under system?
13:57<athena18>in kde i would go to the peripherals section
13:57<athena18>anyone know how to get kde to reverse the mouse scroll...i've been trying for several days
13:58<mordy>i wish there was some way to get that, athena - i've been looking for something like that for a while
13:58<mordy>something equivalent to what i know as "Device Manager" in windows
13:58<athena18>move over to the darkside---join us and use KDE
13:59<athena18>(not only does it have that section but it's generally much easier to use)
13:59-!-tuxlon [] has joined #debian
13:59<athena18>have you learned a lot of gnome...or still just starting?
13:59<newsense>kde is nice if ya just install the core system
13:59<mordy>i'm actually more familiar with KDE
13:59<yury>kde is bloated
13:59<yury>and breaking
13:59<mordy>since i've used it a few times on a live install
13:59<mordy>but yeah, it did seem bloated
13:59<newsense>gnome blows
14:00<athena18>what is the difference between kde and kdm...
14:00<athena18>i just loaded both
14:00<newsense>kdm is the graphical login manager
14:00<athena18>(i'm on a relatively new computer---so it's faster regardless)
14:00-!-tuxlon [] has quit []
14:00<athena18>kde works and generally makes sense
14:00<athena18>gnome doesn't
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14:01<athena18>it is deliberately obscure!
14:01<mordy>KDE is more comprehensive?
14:01<mordy>can i get it?
14:01<mordy>can i get it via apt-get?
14:01<athena18>i'm not sure if i would say comprehensive. you can likely do more from gnome...if you know how
14:02<athena18>do you have synaptic?
14:02<athena18>go into that
14:02<mordy>does KDE have synaptic?
14:02<newsense>mordy is being sarcastic lol
14:02<athena18>go to the KDE destop envioroment
14:02<mordy>i'm really a newbie
14:02<athena18>and look in there
14:03<athena18>scroll down to kde
14:03<newsense>apt-get install kde-core
14:03<mordy>ok, installing it
14:03<athena18>it's easier through synaptic
14:03<yury>mordy: a dark path you are travelling down
14:03<mordy>i can always switch between the two, no?
14:03<yury>crashes and bugs await
14:04<athena18>mordy: it is a ongoing debate as to which is better...
14:04<newsense>i aint had a problem
14:04<athena18>and a system you can use
14:04<mordy>of the dark path know i do, yury
14:04*yury abandons mordy
14:04<yury>he is lost to us
14:04<athena18>if you have the space think of adding kde extras and other stuff in that area
14:04*yury melodramatically puts the back of his hand on his forehead
14:05<mordy>i have a 100G drive with nothing on it
14:05<athena18>when you boot you go to the sessions part at the bottom
14:05<athena18>and choose kde
14:05<newsense>yury what do you use xfce ?
14:05<athena18>put it all on and have fun then!
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14:05<athena18>i used it on a 20gig drive for a couple of years
14:05<mordy>yury, i will cancel the install if you get me cigarettes now
14:05<athena18>but i had to watch how much i put on
14:06<eljefe>I installed Lenny onto a laptop with Atheros wifi, and it worked. After installing some apps and rebooting it, wifi0 no longer shows up in ifconfig... anyone have ideas on fixing that?
14:06*newsense lights up a newport 100
14:06<mordy>newports ewww
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14:06<athena18>it does also take learning, but i found it made sense. I started with gnome and hated it
14:06*eljefe lights up a Marb Menthol Light
14:06<newsense>i live in chicago, like gold here
14:06-!-mike is now known as digerati
14:06<eljefe>menthol for sure
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14:06<mordy>hehe, we have "Jamal" cigarettes here
14:06<athena18>i'm interested in trying out enlightenment as well now that I have a big drive
14:06<mordy>which means "camel" in arabic - but it's certainly not camel
14:07<mordy>but it's a third of the price :D
14:07<eljefe>how can i get my atheros wifi to work again, anyone?
14:07<dpkg>madwifi is a driver for wireless devices with an Atheros chipset. More information at To install madwifi drivers built against Debian stock kernels, ask me about <madwifi-install>. No USB devices are supported. NOT for AR5007UG (aka AR2624/AR5524) chipsets, ask me about <zd1211rw> instead., #madwifi @ No AR5008 support until 0.9.5.
14:07<newsense>yury, what wm you use ?
14:07<dpkg>well, madwifi-install is ask me about <contrib> and <non-free sources>, then as root: "apt-get update && apt-get install madwifi-tools module-assistant && m-a prepare && m-a a-i madwifi && modprobe ath_pci". You should now have madwifi installed. Note: Atheros = ath0, NOT eth0.
14:07<mordy>i can't get my broadcom wireless to work, but it's not a burning issue - i have a wired connection
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14:07<athena18>if you are lucky kde will detect the other monitor when you start up and go to the control center
14:08<yury>newsense: gnome
14:08<mordy>i need to reboot to start kde?
14:08<yury>mostly because my computer can handle it
14:08<amphi>mordy: no
14:08<mordy>you've got a convert, athena
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14:08<yury>if I am on something slow I use blackbox
14:08<newsense>talk about crashes and bloated and you run gnome, figrures lol
14:08<yury>I also like enlightenment
14:08<newsense>i like e too
14:08<yury>gnome is stabler than KDE
14:08<yury>is e17 out yet?
14:08<athena18>KDE is much more stable than windows
14:08<yury>or is it still in beta
14:08<yury>for another 20 years
14:09<mordy>well, 5 more minutes left for download
14:09<amphi>athena18: damning with faint praise? ;)
14:09*fxiny morphs into a jackal and pushes for : ion3 , wmii , awesome , xmonad and fluxbox
14:09<athena18>enlightnment never leaves development from what i hear
14:09-!-josh [] has joined #debian
14:09<josh>how do i find out which gtk version i'm running
14:09<athena18>yes faint praise i guess....what good is a perfectly stable machine on which you can run nothing?
14:09<athena18>nice to look at i suppose
14:09<yury>gtk-config --version
14:09<mordy>i must say that in all my chatting experience, this is the only subject-based room in which people actually know what they're taling about
14:09<newsense>athena18, you happy with youre firewall configuration, everything work still ?
14:09-!-josh is now known as Guest310
14:10<yury>but that's gtk1
14:10<Guest310>i have gtk2
14:10<eljefe>working on that, thanks. Now how can I have the system autop-get DHCP when I plug in an ethernet cable?
14:10<athena18><newsense> it seems to be working fine. I guess I'll find out tomorrow if i can connect to the net (lol). I'll need to tweek it to get the torrent program running at best capacity but it should be good
14:10<yury>pkg-config gtk+-2.0 --version
14:10<yury>for 2
14:11<athena18>how do i send a message to one person on IRC?
14:11<digerati>eljefe: do you have an entry in /etc/network/interfaces?
14:11-!-HellDragon [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:11<yury>try /msg
14:11<eljefe>i would imagine so... i'll check tho
14:11<Guest310>i have .22, is that old?
14:11<yury> have that too
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14:12<digerati>eljeve: it should be "auto eth0"
14:12<yury>that's prolly 2.22
14:12<yury>that seems old
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14:12<yury>one sec
14:12<digerati>and then "iface eth0 inet dhcp"
14:12<athena18>now that i have the firewall i can finally go back to using an email client....
14:12<athena18>i hated using gmails interface but i needed a bit of security
14:13<athena18>has anyone heard of a stable version of enlightenment?
14:13<athena18>or is it like looking for a mirage?
14:13<yury>I don't think that's the version
14:13<yury>2.12 is the latest
14:13-!-newsense [] has left #debian [Leaving]
14:13<yury>out of stable
14:14-!-oahong [~oahong@] has quit [Quit: leaving]
14:14<yury>meh, whatever
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14:14<Guest310>when i start gdesklets, i get:
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14:15<athena18>yuri i think you are talking about elive not's into the teen versions
14:15<athena18>16 or 17
14:17<yury>um e16, e17
14:17<yury>that is enlightenment
14:17<yury>not sure what elive is
14:17<mordy>with camels
14:17<athena18>live cd version that uses enlightenment...been getting a lot of press
14:17<athena18>you can't download a stable copy without "donating"
14:18<mordy>ok, now how do i start KDE?
14:18<athena18>ok are you in kde?
14:18<athena18>or gnome
14:18<athena18>right now
14:18<yury>I am talking about enlightenment
14:18<yury>elive is some spinoff
14:18<mordy>i'm still in gnome, but kde has finished installing
14:18<yury>it's been in development for 6 or 7 years
14:18<yury>maybe more
14:18<athena18>yury: so i hear...but there never seems to be a "stable" version
14:19<athena18>mordy reboot. when you get to the sign in screen there is a "sessions" button on the bottom left
14:19<mordy>do i *have* to reboot?
14:19<athena18>no you may not have to
14:19<athena18>just a habit of mine
14:19<mordy>kdeinit doesn't work :|
14:20<mordy>wel i did kde <tab><tab> and saw a list of kde commands
14:20<athena18>you need to leave gnome to get to KDE
14:20<athena18>it's one or the other (although many programs can be used in both)
14:20<athena18>you need to go back to the signing window. At the bottoms is a session button
14:20<mordy>how do i kill gnome?
14:20<yury>why reboot?
14:21<athena18>yuri: because i'm old fashioned!
14:21<yury>athena18: ...
14:21<yury>how about... without being too insulting... wrong
14:21<athena18>that's ok. you are right
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14:21<yury>the only good reason to reboot a linux box is a kernel upgrade or maybe a libc upgrade
14:21<athena18>i guess it just becomes a habbit
14:21<yury>that's about it
14:21<yury>and even then
14:21<yury>no hurry
14:22<athena18>i turn mine off every day when i'm finished. It's good for the environment
14:22<athena18>do you know how much power you are wasting?
14:22<yury>or something does wrong, like a kernel module screws up
14:22<mordy>hehe, i never reboot if i don't need to
14:22<yury>I use a laptop
14:22<yury>low power consumption
14:22<athena18>so? it still uses power it wouldn't use if it was off
14:22<mordy>i use a laptop too - but this one doesn't have low power consumption
14:22<yury>I put it to sleep
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14:22<athena18>what is this fetish with never rebotting?
14:23<athena18>or turning off
14:23<yury>anyway, that has nothing to do with rebooting
14:23<athena18>you are right
14:23<yury>athena18: it takes long to boot, it's bad for the HD, it's not necessary
14:23<athena18><yuri>it takes me less than a minute to reboot
14:23<yury>about the same
14:24<yury>still, takes time
14:24<yury>also bad for the HD
14:24<mordy>hehe, i'm in KDE!
14:24<athena18>so what do you think?
14:24<athena18>different eh?
14:24*yury rshoots mordy
14:24<yury>have you gotten the "Something Crashed" window yet?
14:24<mordy>well, i've seen it before. i think i'll like this better
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14:24<mordy>i got crashes with gnome, yury
14:24<mordy>not to mention it isn't that quick
14:24<Guest310>and i get this when i go to manage desklets:
14:25<yury>I got crashes with compiz, but never gnome
14:25<athena18>never crashes with gnome...where do you live
14:25<athena18>i've had crashes...
14:25<yury>gnome is stable
14:25<yury>just stable
14:25<yury>I tried kde less than 2 years ago
14:25<athena18>and difficult and obtuse and hard to learn
14:26<athena18>i hear linus prefers kde
14:26<yury>it'll be another 2 before I look at it again
14:26-!-hever [] has joined #debian
14:26<enzord>haven't had any crashes in kde unless it was myself messing around with stuff :) KDE do have some memory management issues atm.
14:26<yury>athena18: it's a little counter intuitive after windows
14:26<Guest310>and i get this when i go to manage desklets:
14:26<yury>Guest310: looks like an index out of range ;P
14:27<Guest310>what does that mean?
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14:27<yury>it means it tried to access an element of an array, but the element did not exist
14:28<yury>do you have any desklets
14:28<yury>whatever they are
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14:29<Guest310>no i dont have any started or anything...i'm reading people say it's a python versin problem
14:30<yury>but whatever
14:30<Guest310>doubtful, what do you think it is?
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14:37<yury>I have no idea
14:37<yury>maybe you are missing some desklet
14:38<spezticle>when setting permissions for folders, files, mounted things, etc, who is 'others' (browsing folders using nautilus in gnome)
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14:41<yury>others is anyone who is not you and not in the group the file is in
14:42-!-digerati [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:42<yury>same as the last field in the permission
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14:45<spezticle>ty yury
14:46<RalfG>hi there, after upgrading my Debian Testing, KDE apps fail to start (not even kicker). Message: Error: in scm_symbol_value: unbound variable: create-context (error 0377)
14:46<RalfG>Google didn't bring this context. I suspect missing fonts
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14:47<StarkD>how do I remove the computer, home and trash icons on the etch desktop?
14:47<yury>it's in your gconf settings somewhere
14:47-!-n0w4y [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:47<RalfG>move them into trash can
14:47<yury>but I think there is an easy way to do it
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14:48<RalfG>gg: scm_symbol_value create-context > no hits!
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14:49<spezticle>RalfG that didn't work for me. The icons dragged but didn't actually go to trash and remove from desktop
14:49<StarkD>gconf-editor --> /apps/nautilus/desktop/ worked for me
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14:50<spezticle>thanks :) i was just curious actually because i was wondering that myself a while ago
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14:51*RalfG is now within an icewm session. KDE sessions won't start
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14:51<RalfG>kteatime runs
14:52<RalfG>kig as well...
14:52-!-kingsley [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:52<RalfG>kcontol crashes when I click into the search box : Error: in scm_symbol_value: unbound variable: create-context
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14:55<StarkD>another problem: I created a FAT 32 partition using Windows XP (which is now replaced by Debian :)). I can't access it "libhal-storage.c 1401 : info: called libhal_free_dbus_error but dbuserror was not set." It seems to bt included in the same logical partition as the swap. any ideas?
14:55<fxiny> /part
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15:02<RalfG>possibly some package "kde" in version 5:48 from testing (no conflicts tagged to kdebase 3.9) is the reason
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15:04<StarkD>oh got it working using mount instead of GNOMEs GUI mount :)
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15:11*RalfG apt-get install mpb
15:12-!-mode/#debian [+l 372] by debhelper
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15:13<eljefe>On Lenny, why cannot I find /dev/raw1394 ?
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15:16*RalfG giving up - maybe also an Xorg issue
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15:16<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, 1394 is see 'firewire'
15:17<dpkg>methinks firewire is Apple's name for the connection also known as Sony i.Link and IEEE1394. A fast 400Mbit/sec (or 800mbit/sec) connection, designed for transferring large data streams. Also suitable for network connections. See
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15:20<eljefe>anyone know how to get firewire working on Lenny?
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15:28<dpkg>methinks beer is liquid gold mate
15:28<newsense>i agree
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15:33<spezticle>efnet linux chat users are harsh. i asked for distro choosing suggestions, and some guy replied 'can someone help me choose which underwear to wear' hehe
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15:35<amphi>that's very mild criticism by oftc standards ;)
15:35<spezticle>haha i told him to wear the speedo, and now i'm gay apparently
15:36<dpkg>It's OK to fantasize about men and to enjoy anal stimulation. It doesn't mean you're "gay". So stop projecting your insecurities onto others. Using this term as a derogatory adjective is very offensive, so do not use it as such. If you continue acting like a child, expect to be devoiced.
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15:46<spezticle>off topic question, but how do you /ignore joins and parts?
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15:47<Curtis>how do i join the suse chat?
15:47<newsense>suse blows
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15:48<Curtis>i know i am helping some one with the rtl8187b wireless card.
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15:50<Curtis>i dont think that i am on the right suse?
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15:51<newsense>yeah curtis youre not
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15:51<Curtis>what do i type to join suse linux?
15:51<dpkg>methinks suse is a linux distribution that can be found at, or german, open source, *nix. . . you do the math. the root of all that is wrong and evil, or #suse, or see See also <opensuse>.
15:51<newsense>type /part
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15:52<Kerz>ur horrible..
15:52<newsense>im bad
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15:53<newsense>he didnt even m,ake sense
15:54<newsense>how do i join suse liux
15:54<newsense>what does that even mean
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15:55<spezticle>he was on the wrong suse :-P
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16:09<filemonkey7>Hey guys, I'm on my third debian netboot disk, and every single one of them is having problems being read by the intallation program :(
16:09<newsense>whats a good mp3 player for linu
16:10<newsense>filemonkey7, did you check the integridy of the disk ?
16:10<filemonkey7>newsense: how would I do that?
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16:10<newsense>should be an option
16:11<newsense>maybe only in expert install
16:11<samuel-veyre>filemonkey7, check "md5" on google
16:11<mordy>how do i start KDE from the command line in putty?
16:11<amphi>newsense: if you want GUI, I find quodlibet pleasant
16:11<filemonkey7>The md5 of the disk?
16:12<newsense>amphi: thank you i do want gui
16:12<mordy>that didn't sound right- how do i start kde?
16:12<samuel-veyre>filemonkey7, yes ...maybe the cd was not well downloaded or badly burned ?
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16:12<filemonkey7>Samuel-veyre: I burned the latest disc five minutes ago. Do you think it's the ISO I'm using?
16:13<newsense>i would have dled another io after the second bad disk
16:13<filemonkey7>Let me try that, I s'pose.
16:14<samuel-veyre>No idea ...
16:14-!-cdlu [] has quit [Quit: kernel upgrade]
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16:16<mordy>and how can i start kde or gnome on the remote computer?
16:16<filemonkey7>newsense: I'll download the netbook iso again, and see how that works.
16:16<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it is unlikely to live up to Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu ( instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian>.
16:16<mordy>i.e. the server?
16:16-!-ubuntu [] has quit []
16:17<dpalacio>mordy, pass the -X option to ssh
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16:17<mordy>hmm.. how do i do that?
16:17<dpalacio>right, putty
16:17<mordy>what is X anyway?
16:18-!-Shimajiro [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:18<mordy>hmm... is my connection bad or is the bot not responding?
16:18<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, xorg is X.Org X11, the reference implementation of the X Window System, forked from XFree86 4.4RC2. The current release is X11R7.3. Ask me about <get xorg>, or #xorg (freenode), or ask about <drxx> to reconfigure.
16:20<mordy>.li - is that liberia?
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16:22<mordy>hmm.. but that only tells me how to have an X server on my computer - i want to start X on the remote - i.e. linux computer
16:23<mordy>no, i don't need a client now
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16:23<filemonkey7>newsense: Nevermind. The integrity check failed. ./pool/contrib/m/msttcorefonts/msttcorefonts_1.8>all.deb failed the MD5 verification :(
16:23<newsense>try dling through bittorrent
16:24<mordy>it's pretty simple what i want to do - i simply want to start KDE (or whatever) on my *linux* box - i don't want to see any of those windows here now
16:24<mordy>my goal is to start these applications on the linux box and then make a VNC connection to ito
16:24<newsense>mordy, i dont have a clue what you mean
16:25<mordy>newsense, here is my situation - i want to be able to start X on the linux box via ssh from my windows box. i don't want to see X on windows
16:26<newsense>than ssh in and type startx
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16:26<dpalacio>mordy, also you want a persistent session, right?
16:26<dpalacio>I think NX is for you
16:26<mordy>err... wait, a persistent session as opposed to what?
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16:26<mordy>i want to do something else now
16:27<samuel-veyre>filemonkey7, Actually, it's a good news because you know where the problem comes from now :-)
16:27<mordy>i know i was asking before about xrdp etc. - but that's not my question now
16:27<samuel-veyre>filemonkey7, try another downloading ... maybe from another mirror ?
16:27<samuel-veyre>and check md5 again
16:28<filemonkey7>Samuel-veyre: How do I check MD5?
16:28<mordy>lol and i don't like NX
16:28<mordy>it crashes my windows
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16:29<mordy>it's surely possible
16:30<mordy>i simply want to start KDE on my *Linux* box and have it *Display* _there_ and *not* on my *Windows* computer
16:30<Starkonovich>Hmm, interesting Samba/Swat problem here. SWAT says nmbd isn't running, but ps -ef | grep nmbd shows it running.
16:30<Starkonovich>However, it certainly is acting like it's not running. I can't browse for my samba server on the network.
16:31<samuel-veyre>filemonkey7, search "md5sum" on google ...
16:31<filemonkey7>samuel-veyre: Got it, thank you :)
16:31<mordy>well, at least i figured out how to configure samba (i think) [what kind of a name is samba anyway, for a filesharing system)
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16:41<gawz>keep getting segmentation fault after rm merlin2_backup.2008-07-12
16:42<gawz>cant remove file
16:42<gawz>rm merlin2_backup.2008-07-12
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16:54<dpkg>rumour has it, beer is liquid gold mate
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16:58<Villarroel>Can I download some content of a package without downloading the package?
16:58-!-Hamachi [] has quit []
17:00<Villarroel>I just want the .config file of the 2.6.25 kernel to compile one for my arch, but I'm lazy to download the whole file.
17:00<gawz>cant remove file
17:00<gawz>rm merlin2_backup.2008-07-12
17:00<gawz>keep getting segmentation fault after rm merlin2_backup.2008-07-12
17:00<amphi>what whole file?
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17:02<qq> lazy for ~ 20 MB ?
17:02<gawz>keep getting segmentation fault after rm merlin2_backup.2008-07-12
17:02<amphi>just use a config from another kernel and do 'make oldconfig'
17:02<Villarroel>Cmon' there is now way?
17:03<amphi>but you'd be better to configure it yourself, and not build a bunch of stuff you don't need
17:04<gawz>cant remove file
17:05<gawz>rm merlin2_backup.2008-07-12
17:05<gawz>keep getting segmentation fault after rm merlin2_backup.2008-07-12
17:05<gawz>whats going on
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17:06<JimInVa>Hello. Looking for installation assistance. This the right place?
17:07<stephane_>hi.. yes
17:07<qq> installation for what ?
17:07<JimInVa>Hi, stephane. I'm looking for assist installing debian - etch or lenny, either's fine. Hardware probs.
17:08<qq>join #debian
17:08<stephane_>JimInva, What kind of problem?
17:08<qq>oops ,sry
17:08<JimInVa>I'm trying to install on a box based on, I believe, Vortex86SX, with an integrated RDC R6040 network device...
17:08<JimInVa>Etch does not recognize.
17:09<JimInVa>So... I have an install, of sorts, but no network connection.
17:09<JimInVa>Tried lenny. Burned a netinst disk twice and getting kernel panic.
17:09-!-coodie [~coodie@] has joined #debian
17:10<stephane_>I don't think debian have modules for this network card
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17:10<JimInVa>Yes... that's a good idea, Cheetah... but I've got no network connection.
17:10<JimInVa>I've found some .deb files from a developer, D3xter, but no idea what to do with them.
17:10<Cheatah>usb stick?
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17:10<JimInVa>Yes, I have usb stick.
17:11<Cheatah>well, you can then put the deb on the stick, and mount that on your debian machine
17:11<Cheatah>and try to get it to work
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17:11<JimInVa>Now we're getting somewhere... and do what with the deb files?
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17:12<Cheatah>install with dpkg
17:12-!-mode/#debian [+l 373] by debhelper
17:12<Villarroel>This linux kernel thing :p is faster with each new release.
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17:12<JimInVa>dpkg installs .deb files? Great. Can you point me to a walkthrough of installing these, even generally?
17:12<dpkg>JimInVa: You are moron #3
17:12<JimInVa>No, just a n00b.
17:12<Cheatah>be sure to resolve all dependencies and put all required .deb's on the stick
17:13<Cheatah>so just dpkg -i blah.deb will do
17:13<JimInVa>Well, that looks like the right URL. Great.
17:13<amphi>JimInVa: install the debian reference
17:14<JimInVa>Cheatah - among the .deb files is a .ko. Suggestion there?
17:14<mordy>hehe, i'm a newbie too
17:15<amphi>JimInVa: .ko is likely a kernel module
17:15<JimInVa>And install kernel module with something other than dpkg?
17:15<Cheatah>well, the modile is probably already in the .deb
17:16<JimInVa>Excellent. I'm going to try this now.
17:16<Cheatah>list files in the .deb with dpkg -c blah.deb
17:16<Cheatah>that way you can see what gets installed where
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17:35<mordy>i've got another question
17:35<mordy>is anyone here/
17:35<JimInVa>I'm here, but I doubt I can help.
17:36<mordy>i'm new to linux too
17:36<JimInVa>Yes -- it's a steep learning curve once you venture outside the gui.
17:36<mordy>just installed it yesterday
17:36<Cheatah>well, most people seem to primarily want to use the gui
17:37<amphi>at first ;)
17:37<JimInVa>Not on a 386SX with 128MB RAM.
17:37<mordy>the GUI is nice though
17:37<jamuraa>sounds like a perfectly workable static page webserver :)
17:37<amphi>JimInVa: heheh
17:37<JimInVa>I'm looking for file, print, and firefly server.
17:38<JimInVa>But -- for the moment, I'm way out of my league.
17:38*Cheatah just likes debians architecture
17:38<mordy>yeah, i'm running linux on a box that has 1.5 RAM and a 3Ghz processor
17:38<amphi>JimInVa: for what clients?
17:38<Cheatah>especially Ubuntu users seem to have all sorts of problems getting userland appications to work
17:38<mordy>hehe, i'm also pretty much out of my league, i'm trying to find out remote desktop solutions - and i've only installed the thing
17:38<JimInVa>Just on my windows network. SMB stuff.
17:38<mordy>what's firefly?
17:39<amphi>JimInVa: samba for file and print - I don't know what 'firefly' is
17:39<Cheatah>and i just don't care about those kinds of things, i only use linux as servers and development machines
17:39<JimInVa>Music. Works with itunes.
17:39<dpkg>methinks samba is a Unix implementation of Windows file and print sharing (the SMB protocol), a good tutorial in English can be found at , or, or read O'Reilly's book online (, or #samba on, or <samba etch5>
17:39<mordy>yeah, but the reason i want a gui is that if i'm limited to a console, i know i'll never be able to see what's around - at least with a gui i'm able to see more options in a more aesthetic format
17:40<Cheatah>i use screen, a lot
17:40<amphi>æsthetic ;)
17:40<JimInVa>Ooohhh, diacriticals!
17:41<JimInVa>Isn't that the doubled characters, like ae?
17:41<amphi>JimInVa: er, diphthong
17:41<mordy>not doubled characters - diacritics are markings on top of characters - like umlaur
17:41<mordy>or أ
17:41<amphi>mordy: or under ;)
17:41<JimInVa>Ah... I misspoke. What are the joined chars?
17:41<mordy>or inside
17:42<amphi>JimInVa: 'diphthongs'
17:42<mordy>they are called ligatures
17:42<JimInVa>mordy: thanks.
17:42<JimInVa>like &
17:42<mordy>joined characters are not diphtongs - diphtongs are a combination of two vowels - something to do with pronounciation, but not orthography
17:42<amphi>ligatures are something else, I believe, such as special chars for 'fi' and the like
17:43<mordy>well, first you've gotta distinguish between orthography and phonology
17:43-!-syrius [] has joined #debian
17:43<amphi>let us do it at once!
17:44<mordy>amphi, in semitic languages, diacritics represent vowels, for example
17:44<JimInVa>So... about my network-challenged box... (Quiet you, dpkg!)
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17:44<mordy>while ligature is just a combination of two characters
17:45<amphi>mordy: indeed; they're used a lot in transliteration of sanskrit and friends, amongst others
17:45<mordy>sorry for the lecture (i'm a linguist :()
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17:45<amphi>mordy: nice
17:45<mordy>well, not a linguist, a soon-to-be-droupout linguistics major
17:46<amphi>mordy: and you assert confidently that 'diphthong' is only an orthographic term?
17:46<mordy>amphi, on the contrary - i said diphtong is only a phonological term
17:46<amphi>JimInVa: what's wrong with it?
17:46<mordy>or is it phonetic term (see, i'm a dropout)
17:47<amphi>dict agrees with you
17:47<JimInVa>amphi - I am unable to get the system to recognize my R6040 network device. And, I think I have some invalid drivers installed as well, well I was randomly trying anything during the install.
17:47<mordy>nice to know a dick agrees with em
17:47<mordy>err.. i mean dict
17:47-!-xauth [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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17:48<mordy>C3PO network device :-"
17:48<JimInVa>mordy - :) -- but just a little.
17:49<amphi>heh, 'monophthong' exists too
17:49<mordy>amphi, it's called "vowel"
17:51<amphi>'vowel' is vague - spanish vowels would seem to be "monophthongs", but many english ones perhaps not; the 'i' in 'night' can hardly be called 'uncompounded' IMHO
17:52<amphi>JimInVa: what does lspci say about the device?
17:52<mordy>depends which english. and just because there's one letter doesn't mean that it's pronounced strictly like that
17:52-!-slaxz [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:52<JimInVa>amphi - I don't recognize the lspci command. A little more, please?
17:53-!-mjk [] has quit [Quit: bye!]
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17:53<amphi>JimInVa: do 'lspci | grep -i network'
17:53<amphi>JimInVa: or is it not pci? ;)
17:54-!-alphad [~alphad@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:54<JimInVa>Getting comman not found for lspci. Is there an alternative?
17:54<Cheatah>aptitude install lspci
17:55<mordy>amphi, it is not always clear as to what exacly is a diphtong and what is not
17:55<JimInVa>Hmmm... this is something of a bootstrapping problem, Cheatah -- no aptitude or apt-get
17:55<JimInVa>Cause Jimmy ain't got no network.
17:55<Cheatah>sorry, aptitude install pciutils
17:55<amphi>he has no NIC driver...
17:55<Cheatah>put it on your usb stick :P
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17:56<amphi>JimInVa: what's your card again?
17:56<JimInVa>I'm thinking I may need to do the 5DVD install.
17:56<JimInVa>Amphi - RDC R6040
17:56<mordy>RDC is a company?
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17:56<mordy>i'm glad my card is a standard realtek
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17:56<mordy>or maybe generic realtek
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17:57<JimInVa>mordy - correct, rdc is company. It's a small System on a chip box. Looked really cool in the catalog. Now it's just chafing my butt.
17:57-!-oxmoz [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:57<amphi>JimInVa: does 'modprobe -l | grep r6040' show anything?
17:57-!-oxmoz [] has joined #debian
17:57<mordy>system in a chip?
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17:58<JimInVa>amphi - yes /lib/modules/2.6.18-5-486/kernel/drivers/net/r6040.ko
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17:58<amphi>JimInVa: try 'modprobe r6040'
17:58<JimInVa>mordy - really tiny box. Everything integrated. No separate nic card.
17:58<amphi>network interface card card? ;)
17:59<mordy>how much was it? sounds col
17:59<JimInVa>amphi - I'm getting two lines of r6040: RDC R6040 net driver, version 0.17. So.. perhaps installed, but I just don't know how to "fire it up."
17:59<amphi>JimInVa: does 'ifconfig -a' show an interface (eth0 probably) ?
17:59<JimInVa>mordy - not so much at the moment. I'll let you know if I ever get it to work. Bout $100, before the exorbitant shippping and wiring fees.
18:00<mordy>lol jim
18:00<amphi>JimInVa: ?
18:00<JimInVa>amphi - I sho an eth0 interface and an lo, however, during bootup, I get a report that superserver not starting and that the eth0 driver not working, and gives me some weird network device description....
18:01<JimInVa>amphi... that is not my card. Again, when I was installing, I was trying just about every option in the list.
18:01<amphi>JimInVa: how do you want to configure the interface? manually, or dhcp?
18:01<JimInVa>amphi - Can you direct me to reference to pull out all the bad eth0 driver/config cruft?
18:01<mordy>well, your card may have a generic driver -
18:01<JimInVa>amphi -- Which way will work?
18:01<JimInVa>amphi - I'm not proud.
18:02-!-mode/#debian [+l 362] by debhelper
18:02<amphi>JimInVa: both, or neither, depending
18:02<amphi>JimInVa: you can try 'dhclient eth0'
18:02<amphi>JimInVa: see if you get an ip address
18:02<amphi>JimInVa: assuming you have a dhcp server there ;)
18:03<JimInVa>amphi - it did something! and the address looks right. What did I do???
18:03<JimInVa>And what do I do now?
18:03<mordy>my router is running linux :p
18:03<amphi>JimInVa: can you ping the router?
18:03<mordy>don't know which version though
18:04<JimInVa>amphi - trying. w1.
18:04<Cheatah>i actually never advise people to use dhcp when they have problems with their nic
18:04<amphi>Cheatah: I don't think he has problems with his nick
18:04<amphi>er, nic
18:04<amphi>I expect it works fine
18:05<Cheatah>if it does, it should be able to be called alive
18:05<JimInVa>amphi - Holy cow! It's pinging!!! It's pinging! TGA It's pinging at last!
18:05<amphi>JimInVa: you should be able to ping something on the intertubes too, with any luck
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18:05<Cheatah>well, try to get your routes right, and you'll be able to use aptitude from now on
18:05<mordy>feel the ping!
18:06<amphi>I hope dhcp will have set the default route and updated /etc/resolv.conf
18:06<JimInVa>amphi - yeah. It works. I've been banging my head for two weeks on this. Amazing what knowing what you're doing will save ya.
18:06<Cheatah>with dhcp all should already be working
18:06<gabriel>hi i need some help on ac97 sound card, i cant find a driver anywhere
18:06<mordy>ac97 should work out of the box
18:06<mordy>i have an ac97 card - no problems with it
18:06<Cheatah>ac97 shouldn't need special drivers
18:07-!-ChanOp [shani@2001:5c0:84dc:1:2::19] has quit [Quit: changing servers]
18:07<Cheatah>it's the most common chipset around
18:07<amphi>JimInVa: you can do 'echo r6040 >> /etc/modules' to ensure the driver gets loaded at boottime
18:07-!-ChanOp [shani@2001:5c0:84dc:1:2::19] has joined #debian
18:07<mordy>echo R2D2
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18:08<mordy>ok, now for my question
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18:08<mordy>how can i start KDE/Gnome on my box from putty?
18:08<amphi>JimInVa: you'll want to edit /etc/network/interfaces if you want the interface configured automagically at boottime
18:08<JimInVa>amphi - I'm going to name my first son amphi, after you.
18:09*mordy calls his dear one "flounce"
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18:09<JimInVa>amphi - Suggestions on what it should read, or a tutorial to that effect?
18:09<amphi>JimInVa: add a line 'auto eth0' and another 'iface eth0 inet dhcp'
18:09<JimInVa>amphi - already in there.
18:09<amphi>JimInVa: man 5 interfaces for the gory details
18:09<JimInVa>amphi - will do.
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18:10<mordy>err.. let me explain more: how do i start KDE on the linux box from windows? i'm not asking about remotely using it - i simply want it to start on the linux bx
18:10<Cheatah>try /etc/init.d/networking restart if you're unsure
18:10<amphi>JimInVa: ok; then the iface should be configured automatically at next boot; did you add any random module names to /etc/modules while you were wrestling with this? ;)
18:10<Cheatah>whether it will work "automagically" next time
18:11<Cheatah>if that works, try a reboot
18:11<Cheatah>if it still works, you will probably only need to reboot after kernel updates
18:11<Cheatah>mordy: eh, you connect to a system using putty?
18:12<Cheatah>and now you want to enter the X system?
18:12<mordy>cheatah, do you recommend somethign else?
18:12<Cheatah>well, that's not going to work
18:12<mordy>i don't want to enter it - i want to execute it on box 2
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18:12<mordy>i'm not trying to run x on windows
18:12<JimInVa>amphi - not that I recall.
18:12<Cheatah>but you want to be able to control the gui from windows?
18:13<mordy>cheatah, theoretically, no
18:13<amphi>JimInVa: did /etc/init.d/networking restart bring up the iface?
18:14<Cheatah>i don't see why you would want to start x without actually using the gui :P
18:14<mordy>my intent is to subsequently open a VNC connection after initializing the GUI on the linux box
18:14<JimInVa>amphi - I'm not sure what you mean by iface, but it appears to have worked. I've got a good address and connection, again. Now I need to go back re-learn myself on getting a name.
18:14<Cheatah>ah, that makes more sense, yes
18:14<mordy>i have this fetish for remote control now
18:14<amphi>JimInVa: hostname?
18:14<dpkg>use hostname <hostname> to set the hostname, $EDITOR /etc/hostname to set it for the next boot, and $EDITOR /etc/hosts to set the FQDN, or create /etc/hostname if it doesn't exist, or 'man 1 hostname' , or see /etc/mailname
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18:15<JimInVa>amphi - Great. Thanks. Who is this dpkg.
18:16<amphi>!what are you?
18:16<dpkg>I am a infobot. For more info see <infobot>
18:16<JimInVa>And who told it to call me a moron, earlier?
18:16<Cheatah>this should explain things well enough, i guess
18:16<amphi>JimInVa: you should probably install the debian reference - apt-cache search debian-reference
18:16<JimInVa>amphi - Hell man, I'm on the network now! I'm going to be apt'ing my ass off!
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18:16<JimInVa>apt-cache search debian reference
18:16<JimInVa>oops, wrong keyboard.
18:16<Cheatah>i prefer aptitude over apt-get
18:17<amphi>!tell JimInVa -about why aptitude
18:17<Cheatah>less dependency hell
18:17<Cheatah>although i did have something weird today
18:18<Cheatah>aptitude install postfix # wanted to install about 40 packages
18:18<Cheatah>aptitude install postfix ssl-cert # wanted to install just those 2
18:18<mordy>cheatah, - i saw the howto - but is there a way of separating the two steps?
18:18<Cheatah>and ssl-cert is a direct dependency of postfix
18:19<Cheatah>so it shouldn't have been to hard to find out the minimal set of packages to install
18:19<amphi>JimInVa: but don't name your firstborn after me - offer him to Cthulhu
18:20<dpkg>Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
18:20<JimInVa>amphi - No way, man. The Old Ones scare the hell out of me. Yog Sothoth especially.
18:20<Cheatah>mordy: well, i guess you noticed that startx wasn't working too well from putty
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18:21<mordy>putty thinks i'm trying to start it on my windows box
18:22<Cheatah>the problem is your tty
18:22<amphi>mordy: if you do 'startx -- :0' ?
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18:22<mordy>it says it's already active
18:23<mordy>maybe i can try to re-forward the x display to the box
18:23<mordy>some kind of a loopback
18:23<mordy>but there should be another solution to this
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18:24<Cheatah>well, to be honest i hate x anyway :P
18:25*Cheatah pets the console
18:25<mordy>i've had many of these issues with a lot of remote programs - they think you want to run things on the client, when you actually want them on the server
18:25<Cheatah>yeah, well, i never run commands that need a gui
18:25<Cheatah>so i don't have those kinds of problems
18:26<mordy>wait, can i kill X and restart it?
18:27<qq>mordy: your remote X server is just started , isn't it ? , try start only the vnc server on remote ,
18:27<mordy>well, the screen on my linux box is the login screen
18:27<qq>and connect to it
18:28<mordy>doesn't work - connection refused
18:28<mordy>i can only connect via VNC if there is an actual X session running on the box
18:28<mordy>but that's what i'm trying to do - and i don't know how to do it
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18:30<JimInVa>nVa> mordy - correct, rdc is company. It's a small System on a chip box. Looked really cool in the catalog. Now it's just chafing my butt.
18:30<JimInVa>* oxmoz ( Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
18:30<JimInVa><amphi> JimInVa: does 'modprobe -l | grep r6040' show anything?
18:30<JimInVa>* oxmoz ( has joined #debian
18:30<JimInVa><mordy> system in a chip?
18:30-!-JimInVa was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
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18:31<JimInVa>amphi - would you give me that dhclient command again, that fixed it all?
18:31<xplicit>so yesterday after updating to lenny i now dont have my root password. I can open the root terminal with it but nothing else
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18:32<amphi>JimInVa: if your interfaces is correct, 'ifup eth0' should do
18:32<mordy>any solution to my problem? cheatah, let's make the question a bit more theoretical
18:32<amphi>JimInVa: otherwise 'dhclient eth0'
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18:33<mordy>is it possible for me to run something from putty on the other computer? - i don't want the other computer to merely act as a server - i want it to be a client as well
18:33<JimInVa>amphi - great. Thanks.
18:34<mordy>is there a way to "mirror" the console?
18:35-!-JimInVa1 [] has joined #debian
18:36<amphi>mordy: what do you mean?
18:36-!-Uurgh [] has joined #debian
18:36<amphi>JimInVa1: this is from the system-on-a-chip thing?
18:36<JimInVa1>amphi - just rebooted and got "SIOCSIFADDR: No such device: // Failed to bring up eth0.
18:37<JimInVa1>amphi - what?
18:37<Uurgh>Just noticed the package lists sure have grown in size lately.
18:37<amphi>JimInVa1: damn; is the r6040 module loaded?
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18:37<JimInVa1>amphi - command, again, please?
18:37<amphi>JimInVa1: lsmod | grep r6040'
18:38<mordy>hmm.. how do i explain this
18:38<JimInVa1>amphi - still no lsmod. Sorry.
18:38<amphi>JimInVa1: eh?
18:38<mordy>now i've gotta be all theroetical and all
18:38<amphi>JimInVa1: you are root?
18:38<xplicit>why does it keep telling me password invalid for everything i try to do as admin? i've changed the root password now and still wont work
18:38<amphi>JimInVa1: try /bin/lsmod
18:39<JimInVa1>amphi - nosuch file.
18:39<mordy>amphi, when i connect with putty, the linux box considers me as a client, and therefore treats all the commands i type as being a client. so if i run anything, i will see it in my putty window
18:39<JimInVa1>no such command.
18:39<Uurgh>Damn that's over 100MB of package lists :-O
18:39<mordy>what i want to do is run programs *outside* the shell, on the linux box itself
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18:39<amphi>JimInVa1: oh, well; just 'modprobe r6040' and then try 'ifup eth0'
18:40<amphi>mordy: you mean, so they continue to run after putty terminates?
18:40-!-sime [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:40<mordy>that too -
18:40*amphi thinks mordy wants screen
18:40*Uurgh gets the irresistable impression he's doing something wrong
18:40<JimInVa1>amphi: No modprobe, either. I thought that one did work before. <scratch>
18:40<Cheatah>mordy: in theory
18:40<Cheatah>start screen on the machine
18:40<amphi>JimInVa1: wtf?
18:41<Cheatah>then connect to a session from somewhere else
18:41<mordy>how do i connect to a session?
18:41<JimInVa1>amphi - wtf indeed. I think I may have kludged this will all of my previous flailing about.
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18:41<mordy>ssh session?
18:41<xplicit>can anyone explain why my root password wont work anymore? Even after changing it
18:41<Cheatah>screen -x
18:41<Cheatah>or -r
18:42<dpkg>Do not paste more than 3 lines to this channel. Instead, use: or or for pics. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste!
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18:42<mordy>command doesn't work
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18:42<Cheatah>well, a screen session is like a persistent shell session
18:42-!-margiolas [] has joined #debian
18:42<JimInVa1>So stinking close, too!
18:42<mordy>but i don't know how to start a screen session
18:42<qq>mordy: do that as root
18:42<mordy>i'm root now
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18:42<amphi>JimInVa1: what did you do?
18:43<qq>mordy: install screen
18:43<JimInVa1>amphi: I'm going to go out on a limb and say I've kludged my system somehow.
18:43<mordy>"unrecognized option"
18:43<amphi>!tell mordy about installit
18:43<xplicit>can someone explain this?
18:44<JimInVa1>amphi: I got some message about unresolved dependencies from apt-get and it directed me to do an apt-get -f or some such.
18:44<JimInVa1>amphi: and then things went south.
18:44<JimInVa1>amphi: I'm going to guess there's no easy way to unkludge this, is there?
18:44<amphi>JimInVa1: might be quicker to reinstall - you hadn't installed much other than the base-system, had you?
18:45<JimInVa1>No, but ... it took so stinking long.
18:45<JimInVa1>amphi - if I recall correctly, repartitioning and reformatting et al.
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18:46<amphi>you wouldn't need to repartion, mkfs doesn't take that long
18:46*Cheatah is going to have a nap
18:46<mordy>how do i copy in putty?
18:46<Uurgh>There sure is some heavy magick involved in the debian package system...
18:46<Cheatah>mordy: just select the text
18:47<Cheatah>paste = right mouse button
18:47<JimInVa1>amphi: Well, near as I can tell, that's what it's going to take.
18:47<amphi>JimInVa1: unless you can reinstall module-init-tools from whatever media you installed from
18:48<mordy>gah, doesn't work :|
18:48<amphi>mordy: putty is a windows program, it presumably follows windows interface conventions
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18:48<mordy>you wish, amphi
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18:49<JimInVa1>amphi: I've got a netinst CD I burned. Would you walk me through?
18:49<amphi>mordy: actually, I don't care ;)
18:49<JimInVa1>amphi -- actually -- a clean install may be the bettter route.
18:49<amphi>JimInVa1: aye, I agree - just remember 'modprobe r6040' and 'dhclient eth0' ;)
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18:50<amphi>JimInVa1: was the netinst not able to configure your interface?
18:50<JimInVa1>amphi - don't suppose the installer may see the r6040.deb file and recognize my nic earlier this time?
18:50<xplicit>can anyone explain this
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18:50<JimInVa1>amphi - no. The installer did not recognize the r6040
18:51<amphi>JimInVa1: but it came with the debian kernel? you didn't build it yourself?
18:52<JimInVa1>amphi - All I want is to get so far as to get an ssh connection and disconnect the keyboard and monitor. This two keyboard thing is really annoying.
18:52<mordy>i think there's something wrong with my windows clipboard :|
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18:52<JimInVa1>amphi: I've been whacking at a lot of attempts to solve. For all I know, I may have compiled my own kernel somewhere down the line.
18:52<amphi>JimInVa1: sure - but you broke it ;)
18:53<newsense>keep whacking at it
18:53<mordy>my clipboard doesn't work
18:53<mordy>how is that even possible -
18:53<xplicit>its windows =p
18:53<amphi>JimInVa1: it's not in the debian kernel I have here
18:54<mordy>it's never happened before - and i've been using windows for 13 years
18:54<xplicit>eh first time for everything... reboot?
18:54<xplicit>i wouldnt put anything happening in windows environment
18:54<JimInVa1>amphi: well, I've got that r6040-blah-blah.deb file that I found. I installed that with dpkg earlier this evening.
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18:56<amphi>JimInVa1: ah, they are in a separate package, at least on testing - r6040-modules-2.6.24-1-amd64 and r6040-source
18:56<JimInVa1>amphi: This is a 386 box.
18:57<amphi>JimInVa1: you'd want to get that package, for your kernel, and put it on a usb stick or so, so you could install it with dpkg after doing a base install
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18:57<amphi>JimInVa1: are you running testing or stable?
18:58<JimInVa1>Amphi: that's what I did earlier today. I think I did it a couple of times, because when I executed that modprobe command you suggested, the line came up twice.
18:58<mordy>dammit, this is werid
18:58<mordy>"Contents of clipboard cannot be deleted"
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18:59<amphi>JimInVa1: it doesn't appear to be in stable, only in testing
18:59<JimInVa1>amphi: the file I have looks to be for the stable - r6040-modules-2.6.18-5-486_0.17-0.1_i386.deb
19:00<JimInVa1>amphi - but, hell, what do I know. I just borked my box.
19:01-!-Uurgh [] has joined #debian
19:01<JimInVa1>amphi - so in rebuilding, should I use standard partitions, or these LVMs?
19:03-!-mordy [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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19:04<amphi>JimInVa1: I've not used LVM
19:05<mordy>damn clipboard doesn't work
19:05<gawz>umount -r /mnt/merlin2
19:05<gawz>keep getting illegal instruction
19:05<gawz>cant unmount the mounted drive
19:06<xplicit>so can anyone help with my problem?
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19:06<amphi>gawz: you could use sysrq to remount all partitions ro FWIW
19:07<AzaTht>is it common that when trying to import the debian keyring, gpg takes up 80% CPU, 80% memory and takes over one hour?
19:07<xplicit>^^ that being the problem
19:08<AzaTht>had to kill gpg, as my computer became unresponsiv
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19:08<Uurgh>HOw do I go about making sure a specific hard drive will spin down when not in use ? There are at least two HDDs connected to my server that are rarely accessed, but they appear to be constantly on.
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19:10<amphi>!tell xplicit_away -about root x
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19:17<Uurgh>Another small update turned in to a hour long session of persuading packages to install...
19:17<Uurgh>I really regret having nothing better to do...
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20:03<eljefe>can anyone tell me how to get firefire working on Lenny, so that kino can read /dev/raw1394 ? /dev/raw1394 doesn't exist but it is installed...
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20:06<SaintK>Hi, does anyone know if there is an IRC channel somewere, were support is provided on using Cmake to compile something ?
20:07<SaintK>I'm running into a bunch of errors, but i don't think that 'belongs' in this channel
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20:22<Laeborg>how does i handle with ecm files?
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20:27<Marillion>SaintK: try to error message for ask google, is a good way ;)
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20:31<mordy^>well, KSirc isn't very good :|
20:31<mordy^>just told me i was banned from this channel
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20:35<SaintK>Marillion: Tried that, but its not showing on google. One side i think its a program error, otherside i think it might have something to do with cmake in my debian etch, as i can't find any other users complaining about it. I've posted the error message's along with the problem here;
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20:41<Marillion>SaintK: see it as it is unlikely to cmake, you are missing dependencies
20:42<SaintK>Marillion: How did you figure out that so quickly ?
20:42<dpalacio>SaintK: wrong arguments
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20:42<dpalacio>SaintK: do not put a space after -
20:43<dpalacio>*after -D
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20:43<SaintK>dpalacio: I've tried that aswell, but it returns the same errors
20:45-!-ofirg__ [] has joined #debian
20:47<dpalacio>SaintK: It seems the CMakeLists.txt is badly made. I've had troubles with other project recently. I worked around it building it in the same source directory ( cmake [options] . ). If that does not work, ask PvPgn people
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20:48<SaintK>dpalacio: Thanks, going to try that. I have the feeling it somehow doesn't include the file with all the variables set which it needs to know when trying to configure it with cmake
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20:53<SaintK>Unfortunatly doesn't work, guess i'll wait for a reply for the pvpgn people
20:55<Marillion>SaintK: I believe it, too many errors is a good Sign
20:55<SaintK>Marillion: What do you mean exactly ?
20:56<Marillion>all ;)
20:56<SaintK>I mean, i don't understand what you just said :)
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20:59<SaintK>ok i found the error lol
20:59-!-mordy^ [] has joined #debian
20:59<SaintK>I pointed to the src dir inside the pvpgn source dir
21:00<SaintK>were i should have pointed to the root :s
21:00<Marillion>SaintK: ah ok, but sorry, my english is bad, I'm forgotten too many Vocabulary for a good communication :/
21:00<SaintK>there how-to is flawed lol
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21:06<Laeborg>how does i handle with ecm files?
21:06<moppen>good morning
21:06<SaintK>I'm getting a new error on making the stuff, error: ISO C++ does not support long long -- ive tried googeling this just now, but the google results don't make me much wiser :0
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21:07<moppen>hi! iam from germany and iam using ubuntu normaly
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21:08<moppen>is here someone who is using a broadcom bcm4311 wireless pci card?
21:09<noflash>moppen, try #ubuntu on
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21:11<moppen>noflash, thank you! ;-)
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21:15<mordy^>i'm using a bcm4306
21:15<mordy^>oops a bit too late
21:15<mordy^>i was just looking for the drivers myself
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21:26<leonidasmad>hola tenog un problemilla no puedo hacer que me funcionen mis repositorios en debian etch alguien me explica como los añados, es que solo me benian los del dvd y yo quiero añadir mas
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21:28<leonidasmad>hoaguien me ayuda
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21:28<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
21:30<mordy^>יאללה תעוף!
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21:31<mordy^>if i can find a package on debian which is intended for etch - and my architecture - but cannot be found with apt-get update - is there something wrong with my sources.list?
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21:35<mordy^>man this sucks
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21:57<xplicit>!find qq
21:57<Laeborg>how does i handle with ecm files?
21:58<xplicit>how do i use my root password that decided to stop working? It stopped working after i upgraded to lenny, now i cant open anything with it except root term
21:58<dpkg>Debian Search of 'qq' (6 of 33): (/usr/lib/purple-2/ in net/libpurple0 ;; (/usr/include/qt3/qqueue.h) in devel/libqt3-compat-headers ;; (/usr/include/lsb3/qt3/qqueue.h) in devel/lsb-build-desktop3 ;; (/usr/lib/debug/usr/lib/purple-2/ in net/pidgin-dbg ;; (/usr/lib/R/library/stats/html/qqnorm.html) in math/r-base-html ;; (/usr/lib/R/library/stats/latex/qqnorm.tex) in math/r-base-latex.
21:58<ifvoid>xplicit: uh?
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21:58<xplicit>i was told earlier however someone shut my laptop down
21:58<ifvoid>xplicit: if you can open a root term, you can schange anything
21:58<Laeborg> - whats wrong ?
21:58<xplicit>idk it gives me an authentication error
21:59<ifvoid>Laeborg: that;s a bug
21:59<ifvoid>Laeborg: uh, ubuntu
21:59<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it is unlikely to live up to Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu ( instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian>.
21:59<Laeborg>no debian
21:59<Laeborg>debian etch
21:59<ifvoid>you're using abuntu repositories
22:00<ifvoid>that will break your system
22:00-!-linuX|Reneger [] has joined #debian
22:00<ifvoid>as you are experiencing
22:00<xplicit>ifvoid: is what its doing then the app opens and says wrong password
22:00<Laeborg>but i need something to handle the freakin' .ecm files in debian
22:00<ifvoid>xplicit: yeah, so don't run it as root
22:01<ifvoid>what's an ecm file?
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22:01<xplicit>doesnt matter how i run anything, still does the same thing
22:01<Laeborg>Error Code Modeler
22:02<dpalacio>xplicit: use gksu or sux
22:02<dpalacio>or kdesu
22:02<dpkg>gksu is a graphical interface for running X apps as another user such as root. aptitude install gksu. Also ask me about <sux>.
22:02<ifvoid>dpalacio: he shouldn't run it as root at all
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22:04<xplicit>well how do i use such things as network-admin without running it as root?
22:04<xplicit>or even trying to open it and putting in the root password
22:04<xplicit>ether way it still fails
22:05<dpalacio>xplicit: how does it fail as non-root?
22:05<xplicit>it does not authenticate period as shown in
22:05<xplicit>it worked up until i upgraded to lenny
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22:05<xplicit>i've even went as far as making a new root password
22:06<xplicit>it'll open the app and the app will tell me the entered password is invalid
22:06<dpalacio>xplicit: no, it is not. youre running it as root in that paste
22:06<xplicit>right... however i've even su network-admin and still failed
22:07<dpalacio>just run it as a normal user, no su nor sudo
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22:07<xplicit>just tried that and the app opens with invalid password
22:07<dpkg>Do not paste more than 3 lines to this channel. Instead, use: or or for pics. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste!
22:09<xplicit>that's what keeps comming up
22:09<xplicit>maybe im just half retarded but it used to work fine until i updated to lenny
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22:11<dpalacio>xplicit: did you completely upgrade? or just some apps?
22:12<xplicit>dpalacia: i replaced repositorys with lenny repositorys, did a apt-get update and a dist-get update
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22:14<dpalacio>sorry, I don't know more
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22:14<xplicit>it's alright, im at a loss right now. I think i'll just have to get the lenny iso and start from scratch. Hope for the best
22:16<coagent>Hello has anyone had experience with an Intel X3100 GPU?I installed Debian Lenny and the X server will start but their are no icons or text.
22:16<kriebel>how are you starting X?
22:17<coagent>X starts with GDM when the machine boots I am using the VESA driver at the moment.
22:18<coagent>However when I change it to Driver "intel" the error appears
22:19<xplicit>!locate qq
22:19<kriebel>weird. sorry, I can't think of anything
22:20<kriebel>maybe check the docs for that driver to see what chips it's been tested with
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22:21<coagent>I read that others where having the same problem but it was fixed in sid but after the upgrade it was still their
22:22<coagent>Oddly enough the chip works in Ubuntu Hardy just fine with the same xorg.conf, but I rather use Debian
22:23<coagent>Has anyone used a GMA X3100 in etch?
22:23<xplicit>Has anyone ever wanted to punch a baby in the face over debian? Because im seriously getting to that point >.<
22:23<kriebel>you might be comfortable in Lenny
22:23<kriebel>xplicit: that's a little exterme
22:24<coagent>I think that it the intel driver version is too old?
22:24<kriebel>actually, I find Debian very easy to administer compared to other distros
22:24<xplicit>Sorry just fusterated, i might need to switch to ubuntu at this point. It's worked before with no issues.
22:24<kriebel>coagent: in Lenny? Lenny should have stuff from sid after a few weeks
22:24-!-noflash [noflash@2001:5c0:8fff:ffff:8000:0:cda7:61ee] has joined #debian
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22:25<kriebel>xplicit, what are you having trouble with? Please don't say some bullshit like Skype
22:25<coagent>I am on sid now and it refuses to work without using the vesa driver
22:25<kriebel>oh, you're having trouble with network-admin and gksu
22:26<xplicit>oh no im having multiple issues i've been working on trying to fix for a week now. Mainly my wireless
22:26<kriebel>wireless sucks
22:26<xplicit>however i cannot use any administration apps to try to get my wireless working
22:26<xplicit>yes but when i am on a laptop it helps alot
22:27<kriebel>I still usually run iwconfig wifi0 essid foo; ifup foo from an xterm
22:27<kriebel>or gnome-terminal, same idea
22:28-!-linac [~lin@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:28<xplicit>i mean the point of me running debian in the first place was to get a good learning experience
22:28-!-thepretender84 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:28<xplicit>and thus far it's proved to be just that
22:29<xplicit>i've learned alot, i just dont understand alot of it. With time im sure it'll come easier
22:31<coagent>Any ideas I am lost
22:31<kriebel>coagent, maybe sid is temporarily broken. did you try the version in Lenny before you tried sid?
22:32<kriebel>xplicit: do you have any UNIX experience in general?
22:32<xplicit>nope other than trying out some live distro's
22:32<xplicit>i've installed ubuntu, fedora, and slacks before but never got far with them
22:33<kriebel>I think it took me several months and quite a few re-installs to get comfortable in Linux
22:33-!-GhostlyDeath [] has joined #debian
22:33<xplicit>yea i assume it will be the same
22:33<xplicit>for me that is
22:33<kriebel>this was a while ago; installers weren't so polished, and I didn't have a net connection
22:33<GhostlyDeath>Everytime ephiphany downloads a file it crashes, on amd64 using the lastest in testing
22:34<kriebel>GhostlyDeath, have you restarted X since you updated?
22:34<kriebel>oooh, epiphany update.... I wanna see if he's right
22:34<xplicit>yea, it also doesnt help im trying to run newer versions of nix with an older laptop
22:34<GhostlyDeath>kriebel: I restarted my pc too
22:34<xplicit>however it should have the drivers i need, it doesnt appear to
22:35<kriebel>xplicit: if you have a desktop to play with, I'd use that
22:36<kriebel>wireless drivers are a sore spot in Linux. very few cards work out of the box
22:36<GhostlyDeath>also RapidSVN crashes for me now too
22:36<kriebel>I've been using old Cisco b cards which work great
22:36<xplicit>i do however its a pain in the ass, i dont have a desk for it so its uncomfortable to use. I could however use a virtual machine to run linux i guess.
22:36<GhostlyDeath>when I try to list a remote repositories contents
22:36<kriebel>centrino works out of the box, too
22:36<xplicit>intel wireless pro doesnt =/
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22:37<xplicit>not mine anyways
22:37<kriebel>if it worked in Ubuntu it will work in Debian
22:37<xplicit>idk some might, my version doesnt seem to. I was told the driver is in lenny, thats why i upgraded to lenny.
22:37<kriebel>lenny is a good place to be right now
22:37-!-deftsp [~deftsp@] has joined #debian
22:37<xplicit>I think ubuntu was on an old desktop that wasnt connected to the net
22:38-!-freealan [] has joined #debian
22:38<xplicit>i honestly dont think i've tried many nix distro's out on my laptop
22:38<kriebel>run lspci and find the line for your wireless card and search for the chip name/number
22:38-!-EricB [] has joined #debian
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22:41<xplicit>Broadcom Corporation BCM4306 802.11b/g Wireless
22:42<GhostlyDeath>kriebel: any luck?
22:42<kriebel>still installing
22:42<kriebel>xplicit, that's not Intel at all
22:42<kriebel>that's broadcom, and they suck, hard
22:43<GhostlyDeath>my desktop which I'm on now has bcm34xx
22:43<kriebel>you might be able to use NDIS-wrapper
22:43-!-grim_fandango [] has joined #debian
22:43<kriebel>but ndis-wrapper is a huge pita
22:43<GhostlyDeath>but I don't use it anymore
22:43<xplicit>the intel wireless pro 2200 is the driver that come with this laptop. I've searched it through dell's driver and my serive tag
22:43<xplicit>what's ndis-wrapper
22:44<kriebel>it shims the windows driver into Linux
22:44<kriebel>it's really scarry
22:44<GhostlyDeath>ndis-wrapper wraps windows network drives
22:44<GhostlyDeath>Like WIN but for drivers heh
22:45<xplicit>welp if i have to re-install i'll have to re-install. What's learning with out failing a few times?
22:45-!-Tsuki-Work is now known as Tsuki
22:45<kriebel>well, if you broke gksudo then maybe it's time to re-install
22:45<Tsuki>And I return from a triumphant work day! Yatta!
22:45<kriebel>but usually it's not really necissary
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22:46-!-linac [~lin@] has joined #debian
22:46<xplicit>very true, so for ndis do i need the original windows driver as well for it to work?
22:47-!-fer [] has quit []
22:47<kriebel>well, a couple of files from it
22:47<Tsuki>Okay, now I have to figure out how to configure Apache and get PHP and mySQL running on it. Hrm
22:48<xplicit>is the iso for lenny available for dl? So i dont need to just upgrade next time?
22:48<kriebel>Tsuki, mysql doesn't run ON apache, but ...
22:48<Tsuki>Well, you get the idea. :P
22:49<Tsuki>Supposedy Apache is running but I need to edit the IP it's using and what not. I think. First time doing this EVER and I'm doing it from a shell. o.O
22:50<kriebel>Tsuki: the only way to travel
22:50-!-PoliticsII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:50<kriebel>GhostlyDeath, epiphany seems fine for me
22:50<Tsuki>I'm just really afraid of screwing it up after all the trouble I had to go through to get my old Pentium running in the first place
22:50<kriebel>but I am on amd64
22:50<GhostlyDeath>kriebel: me too
22:51-!-mes [] has joined #debian
22:51<GhostlyDeath>and I am having trouble killing rtproxy
22:51<kriebel>you're running debian on an actual P54 chip?
22:51<kriebel>like 1995?
22:51<GhostlyDeath>It doesn't want to uninstall
22:51<Tsuki>Pentium MMX
22:51<Tsuki>i586 chip
22:51<GhostlyDeath>kriebel: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4000+
22:51<Tsuki>No X environ
22:52<GhostlyDeath>oh woops
22:52<kriebel>x would just get in the way
22:52<Tsuki>Designed for running Win 95 and ran Win 98SE like a charm
22:52<xplicit>lmao i love
22:52<kriebel>except for running browsers
22:52<Tsuki>I'm not saying it wouldn't
22:52<Tsuki>I'm not unhappy with a text only console
22:52<Tsuki>I plan on using other comps to access the sites
22:52<kriebel>well, step 1:
22:52-!-Politics [] has joined #debian
22:52<kriebel>apt-get install apache2
22:52<mes>Tsuki: i used to run on a AMD K6... it would work fine
22:52<kriebel>which you've proabbly done
22:52<GhostlyDeath>Whenever I see a black screen with white text on it I scream
22:53<Tsuki>Did that already, yep
22:53<Tsuki>Ran it too
22:53<mes>most excellently
22:53<Tsuki>Gave me a IP or some such
22:53<xplicit>is there any good tutorials i could use for debian to just practice doing stuff with. This way i can stop bothering the great people here for once?
22:53<Tsuki>So, next question: how do I get PHP? Hrm
22:54<kriebel>apt-get install php5
22:54<mes>apt-get install php5-common
22:54<mes>or just php5
22:54<kriebel>mostly server stuff
22:54<Tsuki>That's what It hought.
22:54<Tsuki>Will that install the latest stable version, I take it?
22:54<mes>of php?
22:54<kriebel>then there's a trick for getting mod-php to run .php files
22:55<mes>yeah, php5 is the newest
22:55<MotoHoss>xplicit: apt-get install debian-reference
22:55<Tsuki>Yeah. I know. I just want to make sure I don't need to specify like 5.2 or something
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22:56<Tsuki>What's PHP-Pear?
22:57-!-newsense [] has joined #debian
22:58<kriebel>it's like cpan in perl
22:58<kriebel>if that helps
22:58-!-FernandoCotonete [] has left #debian []
22:58<Tsuki>Unfortunately no
22:58<mes>kriebel: a source for getting other modules?
22:58<mes>and similar stuff?
22:58<Tsuki>I'm looking over the site of sorts
22:59-!-zevarito [] has joined #debian
22:59<Tsuki>I'm just trying to figure out what it's useful for?
22:59<kriebel>tsuki: use pear cautiously, some popular modules will be in apt
22:59<kriebel>and it's better to use apt than pear
22:59-!-newsense [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:59<kriebel>it lets you install php modules from the web and keep them up to date
22:59<Tsuki>Do I NEED either for database work? Or will core PHP 5 be fun?
22:59<kriebel>much like apt, actually
23:00<mes>what type of database?
23:00<kriebel>oh, shit, am I talking out my ass again
23:00<mes>there should be a package for php-mysql
23:00<kriebel>no, pearDB is not the same as pear
23:00<mes>apt-get install php-mysql
23:00<kriebel>confusing as all get out
23:00<Tsuki>I plan to develop websites driven by PHP code and mySQL databases
23:01<EricB>the php-mysql code should pull in php and the mysql php client
23:01<kriebel>there's a pearDB module in pear that lets you abstract database access
23:01-!-newsense [] has joined #debian
23:01<mes>people can't just keep names separate enough to keep track of, eh, kriebel ?
23:01<EricB>that's mostly a waste of time
23:01<kriebel>also, I'll make a one-line pitch for Postgres instead of MySQL; it's much more mature
23:01<EricB>it's not very likely that you're going to switch rdbms
23:01<EricB>kriebel heh
23:02<Tsuki>I can find a lot more documentation on PHP and mySQL though
23:02-!-Atomo64 [~Atomo64@] has quit [Quit: 'night all]
23:02<EricB>mysql is easier to install/run/maintain
23:02<mes>besides being mature, what are other advantages for Postgres? i saw a debate on this and didn't really follow closely enough
23:02-!-archangel [] has joined #debian
23:03<kriebel>I'm not really a DB guy, but the underlying architecture and feature set up Postgres are better
23:03<Tsuki>Couldn't find php-mysql
23:03-!-githogori [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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23:03<EricB>kriebel the underlying architecture?
23:03<kriebel>it's striving to be Oracle-class
23:03<kriebel>the default MySQL table type doesn't support some basic features
23:03<EricB>kriebel innodb does and it's shipped by default
23:03<kriebel>for the sake of ease of coding a speed
23:04<mes>Tsuki: try php5-mysql
23:04<EricB>for not being a db guy you seem to have a strong opinion :)
23:04<kriebel>Tsuki: apt-cache search mysql | grep php
23:04<kriebel>use the apt
23:04<kriebel>I work with two DB guys
23:04<kriebel>one has a masters in this shit
23:04<EricB>I have code in mysql :)
23:04<mes>i've just had experience in MySQL
23:04<kriebel>I never have enough data in any one place to bother learning
23:04<Tsuki>So, which should I try? :P
23:04<mes>and dabbled in ODBC
23:05<mes>mysql is an easy starting point
23:05<kriebel>but the masters cant sysadmin to save his life
23:05<kriebel>yeah, but I don't want another young guy selling websites to J. Random Businessowner based on his l33t MySQL skillz
23:05<EricB>either postgres or mysql will work fine
23:05<Tsuki>Is that a pipe?
23:06<kriebel>no offence, Tsuki, I just being hypothetical
23:06<mes>Tsuki: indeed it is
23:06-!-devil [] has joined #debian
23:06<kriebel>yes. shift-\ on a US keyboard
23:06<Tsuki>So, which command should I use? Apt-cache or apt-get?
23:06<mes>apt-cache to find the one to apt-get
23:07-!-superlinux [] has joined #debian
23:07<Tsuki>I hate the cheapy keyboard I'm using on my Linux box. >.<
23:07<mes>are there many syntactical differences between Postgres and MySQL?
23:07<mes>or do they both use SQL to transfer queries
23:07-!-archangel [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
23:07<kriebel>not as many with the real SQL but the direct interaction is different
23:07<Tsuki>grep PHP or grep PHP5?
23:07<kriebel>like there's no show tables;
23:08<EricB>mes they both use sql but they have different extensions
23:08<mes>ah, so to learn one after another wouldn't be troublesome?
23:08<kriebel>Tsuki: grep is case sensitive unless you use the -i flag
23:09<kriebel>and package names are usually (always?) lower-case
23:09<Tsuki>Right. One for the ol' noggin
23:09<Tsuki>So grep php
23:09<kriebel>this is Computers 101 as far as I'm concerned
23:10<mes>kriebel: what do you mean?
23:10<kriebel>all the Windows crap I learned as a kid is like a drop in the bucket now
23:10<mes>teaching or learning
23:10-!-snogglethorpe [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:10<kriebel>knowing. bash
23:10<kriebel>apt is kinda advance/debian specific
23:10<kriebel>but since we all know Debian is the best distro, it's required reading ;-)
23:11<mes>i can agree with the windows knowledge not really being useful :/
23:11<mes>kriebel: who could disagree?
23:11<superlinux>mes it's true
23:11<kriebel>superlinux: stop shouting
23:11<superlinux>it's not a knowledge
23:11<superlinux>kriebel: i am not
23:12<kriebel>you did
23:12-!-snogglethorpe [] has joined #debian
23:12<superlinux>i mean the caps for imphasis only
23:12<mes>it's hard for emphasis to come across in a text format
23:12<kriebel>heh, np. I just got myself worked up
23:13<mes>usually denotes anger/desire to be heard through shouting
23:13<Tsuki>I've never liked Windows but for gaming it's a required evil. :(
23:13<kriebel>I feel old at 25
23:13-!-devil_away [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:13<snogglethorpe>mes: there's always italic, or underline...
23:13<superlinux>i am 29 feeling a kid all the time
23:13<kriebel>I wish quake 4 worked right on my amd64 install
23:13<mes>Tsuki: that seems to be the general consensus
23:13<snogglethorpe>mes: also, bold...
23:13-!-jegc [~jegc@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:13<mes>snogglethorpe: true, but i'm not the one requiring this knowledge :p
23:14<kriebel>I play quake3 and warzone2100 in Linux
23:14<kriebel>and Battle for Wesnoth
23:14<snogglethorpe>superlinux: see above
23:14<Tsuki>Also I honestly prefer Office 2007 over Open Office. Sowwy
23:14<kriebel>if you like Heroes of Might and Magic
23:14<kriebel>Tsuki: hurt yourself
23:14-!-kanru [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:14<kriebel>I prefer vi and LaTeX actually
23:14<mes>the ribbon was the worst idea i've ever seen in a microsoft product
23:15<superlinux>snogglethorpe: i donno if it works for all irc clients
23:15<mes>the new menu in 2007
23:15<superlinux>i cant tell
23:15<snogglethorpe>wtf is the ribbon anyway...
23:15<kriebel>word processing programs are really not clever uses for computers
23:15<kriebel>the "toolbar" like thing in office 2.7
23:15<snogglethorpe>kriebel: for simple stuff they seem ok
23:15<kriebel>er, 2k7
23:15<Tsuki>Ah, I was right. It's php5-mysql
23:15<kriebel>snogglethorpe, for simple stuff it's cat | groff | lp
23:15<snogglethorpe>kriebel: it's when people try to actually write books or complex technical documents with a word-processor that the horribleness starts to overwhelm all else...
23:15<superlinux>if u juts pass by arabs just plz refer them to that
23:16<superlinux>thanks. thats all
23:16<kriebel>if I run into any, I'll try to remember that
23:16<kriebel>the last Arabic speaker I talked to was actually better at computers than me
23:17<kriebel>my xchat just showed chinese
23:17<kriebel>how many fonts do I have installed?
23:17<amphi>so did my irssi ;)
23:17-!-deftsp [~deftsp@] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)]
23:17<kriebel>nice chatting, guys, I'm going to sleep
23:17-!-kriebel [] has quit [Quit: sleep]
23:18<snogglethorpe>I guess one can reasonably rely on utf-8 on irc these days...
23:18<mes>snogglethorpe: agreed
23:18<Tsuki>Okay, so I have Apache2, PHP5, and mySQL for PHP5. Now I gotta get it running
23:18<Tsuki>I'm trying to think of the graphical back end I'm used to for mySQL. Dolphin?
23:19<mes>Tsuki: have you tried phpmyadmin?
23:19<Tsuki>I think that's it
23:20<Tsuki>I just remember a dolphin or something too
23:20<mes>there's a packages for that, too :p
23:20<mes>yeah, their logo includes a dolphin
23:20<Tsuki>That explains it. So, apt-get install phpmyadmin?
23:20-!-enouf [] has joined #debian
23:20<mes>do the apt-cache | grep trick to find the package name
23:20<mes>(i'd tell you if i were on a debian machine :/)
23:21-!-jegc [~jegc@] has joined #debian
23:22<amphi>!tell Tsuki -about search
23:23<Tsuki>Yeah, looks like it's called phpmyadmin
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23:24<chealer>xplicit: yes, the iso is available for download
23:24<snogglethorpe>anyone know why X "dontzap" option isn't on by default
23:24<snogglethorpe>(having just accidentally typed it...)
23:25<mes>snogglethorpe: to make things complicated just for you
23:25<snogglethorpe>the x server is very reliable these days, and many users probably don't even know about that binding
23:26<mes>it's slipped my mind at the moment, but what is dontzap?
23:26<snogglethorpe>mes: it removes the "kill X server" keybindings
23:26-!-sysop [] has joined #debian
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23:27<snogglethorpe>for those very rare times when one needs to do that, it's almost as easy to just switch to a console, login, and kill the X server from there
23:27-!-freealan [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
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23:27<mes>few more steps involved though :p
23:28<qq>but it is by defaut at list in sid
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23:29<Tsuki>Okay, so I have Apache, PHP, mySQL, PHPMyAdmin, and now I gotta figure out how to make it all work. o.O
23:29<mes>man pages are wonderful for that sort of stuff, Tsuki
23:29<Tsuki>That's what I'm looking for
23:29-!-Cap_J_L_Picard [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:30<mes>that or look in /etc and find the related .conf files
23:30<xplicit>that or make the .conf file which is a pain in the ass imho
23:31<xplicit>for instance i had to do it with wpa_supplicant until i realized my wireless card wasnt supported
23:31<mes>xplicit: there are usually plenty created by default to edit to relieve said pain
23:31<xplicit>touch wpa_supplicant.conf
23:32*xplicit f33rs having to go through that pain again
23:32-!-pquarles [] has joined #debian
23:33<xplicit>i learned of ndis earlier qq thanks though, however since my upgrade to lenny last night i f33r i've broken something
23:33<xplicit>so im going to get the iso of lenny tomorrow and re-install
23:33<xplicit>as it's a learning process and until i become perfect in every form im going to make mistakes =p
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23:34<xplicit>i do appriciate the hard work you guys do, i cant stress that enough. I'd be so totally lost with out it
23:34<mes>xplicit: we learn through the same process you just explained :D
23:34<mes>i can't count how many times i've installed Debian
23:34<amphi>xplicit: read the debian reference ;)
23:34<mes>and every other distro/OS i've encountered
23:35-!-kp [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:35<snogglethorpe>hmm, i've only installed debian twice... 10 years ago...
23:35<qq>I run at least 1000's install till I begin to understand somethings
23:35*xplicit bows to snogglethorpe
23:35-!-ofirg__ [] has joined #debian
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23:35<xplicit>amphi i will as soon as i re-install to fix any issue im having now
23:35<snogglethorpe>xplicit: the nice thing about debian is that reinstalls aren't really necessary
23:35<Tsuki>Lord, I can tell I've got a lot to learn
23:36<xplicit>can you elaborate on that snogglethorpe?
23:36<xplicit>haha Tsuki i am in the same boat dont worry
23:36<amphi>xplicit: you can read it online a d.o
23:36<xplicit>however i have my shell scripting book to learn with it, and possibly other manuals, friends, and irc
23:37<snogglethorpe>xplicit: in many distros, the package system doesn't quite manage to keep the system consistent, so things slowly bitrot over time, making re-installs necessary eventually
23:37<Tsuki>I'm trying to figure out 1) How am I going to transfer the files I'm going to test to the server -- like, can I use FileZilla? -- and how to get it up and running on the right IP and port. Hrm. *looks over the documentation*
23:37<snogglethorpe>xplicit: also, it seems many older distros don't really handle upgrades well for some system components
23:37<snogglethorpe>but debian maintainers are _very_ anal about making sure every last little detail is handled correctly by package upgrades
23:38<xplicit>would a downgrade help me possibly?
23:38<snogglethorpe>so debian systems, don't, in general, bitrot
23:38<mes>xplicit: that's not supported or recommended
23:39*xplicit searches for the downgrade disk >.<
23:39<snogglethorpe>(and in those various times when a bug / mistake does lead to lossage, the packagers often go to great lengths to have subsequent versions look for and clean up the mess if possible)
23:39<amphi>xplicit: haha
23:39<xplicit>Hmm is that why debian is one of the most respected distro's?
23:39<snogglethorpe>xplicit: certainly
23:39<amphi>what do you mean, 'one of' ?
23:40-!-jimisrvrox [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:40<xplicit>well for instance ubuntu is as well but then again ubuntu is based off debian. Slacks is, Gentoo is, and mandrake is
23:40<mes>amphi: heh
23:40<xplicit>however from what i've heard debian is basically top notch
23:40<mes>it's respected because of it's stability and package management
23:41<xplicit>if linux distro's were ported into liqour debian would be top shelf
23:41<mes>and easy configuration
23:41-!-Holborn [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
23:41<xplicit>well at first i was told if i wanted to really learn linux then go gentoo, after talking to a few more friends they told me to bitch slap the friend that told me to go gentoo
23:42<xplicit>thus landing me at debian
23:42<Tsuki>Okay, I'm trying ot make sure I'm understanding this right. To start apache I tell it 'run apachect1'?
23:42-!-thepretender84 [~thepreten@] has joined #debian
23:42<qq>Debian GNU/Linux - the new "Number One" distribution
23:42<xplicit>oh to hel pyou Tsuki keep in mind =D
23:43<Tsuki>Eh? That's a first
23:43<Laeborg>how does i handle a .ecm file ?
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23:44<mes>xplicit: if you really want to spend time compiling and configuring the most menial programs, go gentoo v.v
23:44-!-zevarito [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:44<xplicit>yea that's what i was told, that gentoo is a headache and a waste of time for that reason
23:44<xplicit>wow slacks didnt even make the list
23:45<mes>if you're a performance nazi, it's decent, but the gain is barely noticeable... debian is extremely efficient at what it does
23:45-!-alraune [] has joined #debian
23:46<xplicit>i liked slacks, ubuntu, and i like debian minus the issues i've been having over the past week
23:46<thepretender84>how can i force an external HD to be mounted using ntfs-3g automatically?
23:46<dpkg>ntfs-3g is, like, a user-space NTFS driver with write support and good performance. It is available in Lenny, or through for Etch (ask me about <> for instructions and see Usage examples:
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23:48<alraune>thepretender84 : man mount
23:48<snogglethorpe>anyone use sshfs?
23:48<thepretender84>i am using it now, but I have to manually mount it using to use ntfs3g
23:48<mes>alraune: a homophobe's nightmare
23:48<Tsuki>Okay, that's odd
23:48<snogglethorpe>how well does it cache things?
23:48<snogglethorpe>mes: ...or dream...
23:49<Tsuki>Trying to run or start apachectl doesn't work. Hrm
23:49<amphi>!anyone use sshfs
23:49<dpkg>No, no one uses sshfs, not even the people who use it.
23:49<thepretender84>the HD mounts, but it is not using ntfs-3g
23:50<qq>xplicit: is a fault of vendors , who not provide free driver for their product
23:50<thepretender84>from what i have read i have to use a udev this correct?
23:50<xplicit>lets sue the vendors then! =p
23:50<amphi>xplicit: just take your custom elsewhere
23:51<xplicit>amphi? what do you mean?
23:51<Tsuki>Note to self: DON'T randomly use ALT+CTRL+DEL
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23:51<snogglethorpe>anyone use dpkg?
23:51<amphi>xplicit: don't buy hw for which the vendor neither provides an open driver themselves, nor provides sufficient specs for anyone else to write one
23:52<qq>so its correct !
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23:52<mes>snogglethorpe: once in a while... everyone uses it through apt-get and related
23:52<snogglethorpe>mes: kidding
23:53<snogglethorpe>what i really want to know about is sshfs
23:53<xplicit>oh i got you however the hw wasnt by choice, plus it's built in =/. So i'd have to spend money to buy a good card
23:53<dpkg>i guess sshfs is a FUSE-based filesystem that uses ssh. It is a nifty way to securely mount remote resources and doesn't rely on NFS or samba. (Don't confuse sshfs with shfs.) Sshfs is in the package sshfs. See, or ask me about <fuse>. (remember to modprobe fuse and add yourself to the 'fuse' group)
23:53<xplicit>i've used sshfs on fedora but that was like 4 years ago
23:55<snogglethorpe>xplicit: i suppose that it's 4 years old is a good sign anyway :-)
23:56<xplicit>well it was honestly more like 3 years ago but who's counting.
23:57<snogglethorpe>seems like fuse used to have a sllightly bad reputation, but better these days...
23:57<xplicit>what i liked most about ubuntu is it had great documents that covered most things. Say i wanted to learn and use samba, it was there for me to find.
23:57*qq brb, or
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23:58<amphi>xplicit: the debian reference covers a lot of stuff
23:58<xplicit>hehe you've pushed that debian reference alot. I'll bit tomorrow after i re-install
23:58<xplicit>how do you att: a user like you guys do?
23:59<xplicit>like you pm them with out pm'ing them. Dont really know how else to explain it
23:59<amphi>xplicit: by prepending their nick
23:59<xplicit>amphi: like this?
---Logclosed Sun Jul 13 00:00:30 2008