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#debian IRC Logs for 2008-07-29

---Logopened Tue Jul 29 00:00:16 2008
---Daychanged Tue Jul 29 2008
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00:01<etbe>twb: Thanks, that seems to do some good!
00:01*twb knows all! Tell your friends!
00:01<twb>etbe: note that obvious stable -> lenny real soon now
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00:10<pelmon_>ok. um, and what's the latest "lenny" kernel? is that right? is there a specific kernel for lenny?
00:10<pelmon_>*or kernels?
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00:22<twb>pelmon_: no, but lenny has specific packages.
00:22<pelmon_>yeah i now
00:22<twb>pelmon_: did you install make-kpkg and follow the other steps the dpkg bot told you about?
00:23<pelmon_>yeah. i'm reading
00:24<pelmon_>hmmm.... this is going to take a while, huh?
00:25<twb>pelmon_: it's an acquired taste.
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00:26<pelmon_>what? the coffee i'm going to need?
00:28<twb>I confess I've always just said "eeeeeh, I think I can do without rolling my own kernel today"
00:28<twb>e.g. I put up with vesafb instead of intelfb
00:29<pelmon_>not sure what to expect. hours?
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00:30<twb>I don't know.
00:30<twb>Obviously the actual compilation is hardware-bound
00:32<pelmon_>seems like i can stop it and restart it later if necessary
00:35<pelmon_>ok. how would i know what kind of processor i have. i'm assuming it's 686. i've always used 686. i don't want PRO do i?
00:37<Nemoder>cat /proc/cpuinfo
00:38<pelmon_>model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 3.20GHz
00:38<pelmon_>is that just a reg 686?
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00:39<Nemoder>686 will work
00:40<twb>pelmon_: a better question is: why are you compiling your own kernel?
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00:41<pelmon_>>:( i was getting an error message that the kernel was not compiled with the current installed version of gcc
00:42<pelmon_>so i'm recompiling
00:42<twb>pelmon_: from what?
00:42<recognizer>hi, i have a problem with my cpu temperature, is in 89.5°C, what can i do? thanks
00:42<twb>Did you build your vmware deb using make-vmpkg ?
00:42<twb>Do that first
00:43<pelmon_>hold on
00:43<twb>!tell pelmon_ about vmware-package
00:43<recognizer>my kenel is 2.6.24-1-686 #1 SMP Sat Apr 19 00:37:55 UTC 2008 i686 GNU/Linux and debian unstable
00:43<recognizer>any can help me ?
00:44<twb>recognizer: firstly, temperature readings are notoriously buggy on some motherboards. Are you sure that reading is accurate?
00:44<twb>recognizer: secondly, you can do two things: install better active/passive cooling hardware, and turn off / throttle devices (e.g. CPU, disks) that are not actively being used.
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00:45<pelmon_>does that even apply to vmplayer?
00:45<twb>pelmon_: sorry, I don't know.
00:45<pelmon_> sounded like a bot for a second there
00:46<pelmon_>i think i need to sleep
00:46<Phoul>is it safe to disable exim4 from starting on boot aswell as cups in debian (Lenny)?
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00:46<twb>recognizer: for example, on my Celeron I load the p4-clockmod kernel module, then set the frequency governor to "ondemand". This tells the kernel to slow down the CPU when it's under low load.
00:47<twb>Phoul: define `safe'.
00:47<twb>Phoul: if the MTA isn't running, mail won't be delivered.
00:47<twb>Phoul: this may (probably will) include system mail, such as errors from cron.
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00:49<recognizer>twb: i have the same module loaded
00:49<recognizer>and my governor is in performance
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00:51<twb>recognizer: that's the default
00:52<twb>recognizer: I've given you some pointers, I expect you to go research the details on your own. If you have more questions, ask them here, but I'm not going to hold your hand through the whole process.
00:52<recognizer>ok thanks
00:53<recognizer>twb: what is your temp and what is your cpu?
00:53<twb>recognizer: I don't know.
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00:54<twb>50°C, Intel(R) Celeron(R) M processor 900MHz, according to /proc.
00:54<recognizer>with the commands sensors and cpufreq-info
00:54<twb>It's an Eee PC 701.
00:54<recognizer>ah ok
00:54<twb>If your 89°C figure is accurate, that's a dangerous temperature to operate at.
00:55<recognizer>yes iam worried
00:55<twb>However modern CPUs will generally shut themselves down without asking the kernel if it gets *really* hot.
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01:05<joshua_>cual es el canal de debian para latinos???
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01:13<dpkg>methinks #debian-es is debian channel for spanish users
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01:22<tchemis>Hello, I am going to be installing debian via the network install,.. will I be prompted to install my wireless drivers?
01:22<tchemis>I am used to installing them through ndiswrapper ;/
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01:30<jm_>no that can only be installed later
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01:33<raffytaffy>good evening
01:34<raffytaffy>anyone here
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01:35<raffytaffy>enouf: hi
01:35<enouf>feel free to just ask
01:35<raffytaffy>i tried compiling a kernel with highmem64 enabled and 2/2 split for ram kernel/user but it still shows up as 3.5 gigs
01:35<raffytaffy>any ideas?
01:35<raffytaffy>its 32bit
01:36<enouf>raffytaffy: debian has -bigmem kernels premade for you
01:36<dpkg>-bigmem linux-images support up to 64GB of ram. If you have more than about 3.4 GB of ram, install and use this to see everything past the sub 1GB limit.
01:36<raffytaffy>i just grabbed the source from the page and did it manually
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01:36<raffytaffy>ahh cool guys, it seems i need to research this tonight hehe
01:37<enouf>apt-get update ; apt-get search linux-image-* | grep bigmem
01:37<enouf>raffytaffy: likely some PAE you forgot, or .. i'd have to see your HIGHMEM options
01:37<raffytaffy>as long as it uses up my 4 gigs i should be good
01:37<enouf>it will
01:37<jm_>you don't need 64G option for 4G of RAM
01:37<raffytaffy>good good hehe
01:37<enouf>jm_: yes you do
01:38<jm_>no you don't
01:38<enouf>yes you do
01:38<raffytaffy>last year when i did a ck kernel with highmem64 it showed up the 4gigs as 3.90
01:38<jm_>read the kernel help again before you make your claims
01:39<enouf>you too
01:39<jm_>except that I did
01:39<raffytaffy>i was always stuck with 3.4 or 3.5 with highmem4 which is default
01:39<enouf>so did i
01:39<jm_>so you need to learn english then
01:39<enouf>no, you do
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01:40<raffytaffy>ok who wants a beer bfre a fight breaks out lol
01:40<enouf>raffytaffy: just do what i told you - all problems with mem will be gone
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01:40<raffytaffy>yeah imma do it as soon as my media transfer is done
01:40<raffytaffy>i have to move 70 gigs on a usb2
01:40<jm_>I love it when people are intentionally stupid and you easily prove them wrong: CONFIG_HIGHMEM4G: Select this if you have a 32-bit processor and between 1 and 4 gigabytes of physical RAM. CONFIG_HIGHMEM64G: Select this if you have a 32-bit processor and more than 4 gigabytes of physical RAM.
01:41<enouf>jm_: wrong again
01:41<jm_>yeah kernel help is wrong
01:41<raffytaffy>jm_ thats what it says in xconfig, but when i choose highmem4 it shows up as 3.4
01:41<jm_>but I'll stop wasting my time here for now
01:41<enouf>i wish you would stop .. you;re making an ass out of yourself
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01:41<etbe>Are Xen kernels expected to work in Lenny on i386? If so what do you need to do?
01:43<raffytaffy>i had major issues with a tickles rt kernel
01:43<jm_>raffytaffy: yes, you need remapping support for that
01:44<jm_>that's for your previous question, not for tickless rt kernel ;)
01:44<raffytaffy>yeah the tickles was just a random rant hehe
01:44<etbe>jm_: 4G of RAM means slightly more than 4G of address space...
01:44<jm_>out of curiosity - why are you using -rt kernel?
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01:44<raffytaffy>i like to test stuff to be honest
01:45<raffytaffy>it worked ok for maybe a month, then i did some xorg upgrades
01:45<raffytaffy>and ran into major issues
01:46<raffytaffy>i have to say thou, the response time for a rt is better then a reg
01:47<SledgY>etbe: Dom0 or DomU?
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01:48<raffytaffy>oh since im here i might as well ask, does anyone have any idea how to split a 8gig .mkv movie file into 2 parts so i can burn on a reg 4.7 dvd
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01:48<etbe>SledgY: Both, but I'm most intereted in DomU at the moment.
01:49<SledgY>etbe: Looked at ?
01:49<SledgY>Lenny doesn't have any dom0 kernels
01:50<enouf>raffytaffy: dunno about .mkv, but might try
01:51<raffytaffy>.mkv is high def
01:51<enouf>matroska, yeah
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01:52<etbe>SledgY: Apart from noting that there are no Dom0 kernels, that wiki page isn't much use. It says that the same method can be used to create DomU's for Lenny as for Etch. I have a running DomU which I've just upgraded to Lenny, I tried booting from the kernel and it didn't work (nothing on the console).
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01:52<enouf>haha @ mplayer /topic on " ... | 1080 h264 requires 2.6ghz c2d / amd x2 2ghz or faster."
01:53<raffytaffy>i use a amd 3600x2
01:53<enouf>etbe: which xen version(s)?
01:53<jm_>3600, now that's a rare beast
01:54<raffytaffy>its clocked @ 2010
01:54<raffytaffy>with 4g ram
01:54<raffytaffy>@ 533
01:54<raffytaffy>works perfect with high def movies on mplayer
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01:55<raffytaffy>cpu[2 x AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 3600+ @ 2.01GHz w/ 256 KB L2 Cache]
01:55<jm_>3200 definitely doesn't
01:56<etbe>enouf: xen-hypervisor-3.0.3-1-i386-pae version 3.0.3-0-4 and linux-image-2.6.18-6-xen-686 version 2.6.18.dfsg.1-22 in Dom0, and in DomU linux-image-2.6.25-2-xen-686 version 2.6.25-7
01:56<raffytaffy>damn its up to .25 already
01:56<raffytaffy>im still on .23
01:57<enouf>etbe: ok, iirc, there were issues with versions below 3.0.2 or similar - i really don't know much about it though, apologies
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01:58<enouf>etbe: might want to shoot an email to ?
01:59<SledgY>etbe: or asking in #debian-xen
01:59<enouf>ahh, didn't know that one existed ..
01:59<SledgY>although it's usually pretty quite in there
02:03<etbe>enouf: Thanks for the suggestion
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02:07<jltate>Gonna apologize in advance since I'm sure it's been asked a dozen times already, but... what's up with the mirrors? I can't install from a netinst iso.
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02:13<Nemoder>jltate: 4.0_r4 is in the process of being built you can still get r3 here:
02:13<jltate>Well, I already tried that one.
02:14<jltate>The installer gives me a nice big red screen saying the mirror is bad... regardless of which mirror I pick.
02:14<Nemoder>works for me
02:14<jltate>Yeah? What mirror? Needless to say I didn't try them all, just a few random ones.
02:15<Nemoder>just from, didn't use any other mirror
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02:15<jltate>Hm. Lemme try again, then.
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02:21<sasuke781>so if anyone remembers my lil boot problem....i still cant boot into debian....
02:22-!-mode/#debian [+l 330] by debhelper
02:23<jm_>apparently no-one does
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02:25<sasuke781>well...thats it....i cant boot
02:26<sasuke781>i've tried lilo and grub...hda1 is my boot partition.....and im out of ideas
02:26<sasuke781>what i need is a dev
02:26<jm_>you have a spearate /boot partition?
02:27<sasuke781>everything is installed on defaults
02:27<jm_>so reinstall grub then
02:27<sasuke781>i have tried it
02:27<sasuke781>doesnt work
02:27<jm_>!doesn't work
02:27<dpkg>Look buddy, "doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message".
02:27<sasuke781>i tried it 5 times
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02:28<sasuke781>thats not necessary....i take my time in explaining
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02:29<jm_>sure you do, but so far you haven't provided any details at all
02:29<sasuke781>>=[ then be patient
02:29<sasuke781>as i was saying
02:30<sasuke781>whatever bootloader i use....its like....bios doesnt see it....anytime i try to boot it says "DISK BOOT FAILURE"
02:30<sasuke781>it being bios
02:31<jm_>how are you installing grub?
02:31<sasuke781>i have tried loading knoppix and sat here for hours trying this and that.....i tried grub-install --recheck /dev/hda1
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02:31<jm_>you need to use /dev/hda
02:31<jm_>and one has to make sure /dev/hda1 is not mounted with nodev in knoppix
02:31<sasuke781>-_- i installed debian with all defaults
02:32<sasuke781>ok hold why does debian install brub to /dev/hda1 ?
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02:33<jltate>@Nemoder, just selected It said "scanning the mirror" for a few minutes and just said "Bad archive mirror." "The specified Debian archive mirror is either not availble, or does not have a valid Release file on it. Please try a different mir
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02:33<Nemoder>jltate: I guess I misunderstood, I thought you were trying to download the ISO itself
02:34<sasuke777>wtf just happened
02:35<jltate>So then are the r3 files toast until they finish dealing with r4?
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02:36<sasuke777> still in here
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02:36<sasuke777>jm_ ?
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02:37<Nemoder>jltate: seems strange that it wouldn't work, is it able to install a base system?
02:37<jltate>I think.
02:37<jltate>If by base you mean what it comes with on the 140mb netinst iso.
02:37<Nemoder>jltate: yeah, should be enough to edit your sources.list I think
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02:38<sasuke781> i in server
02:38<Nemoder>sasuke781: yes
02:38<jm_>sasuke781: it asks you if you want to install grub on MBR, you must have said no for whatever reason
02:38<jltate>Alright, well could you walk me through it, then? I'm a total newbie at this... been following a how-to-install-debian-v4 guide to this point. :\
02:38<sasuke781>no i didnt
02:39<sasuke781>i said yes
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02:39<jm_>then it hasn't installed it in hda1
02:39<Nemoder>jltate: login as root and run: nano /etc/apt/sources.list
02:39<sasuke781>then why is /boot/grub there
02:40<twb>I'm writing scripts that will inject junk into /etc/hosts and similar (because $boss doesn't like puppet).
02:40<jm_>there are two different things here - one are files put in your filesystem,and one is the actual bootloader
02:40<jltate>Alright, gimme a few minutes, then.
02:40<twb>I know that there are several cases where debconf does this, where can I find out more about this?
02:40<sasuke781> whats wrong then.....because i told it to write it to the mbr
02:40<twb>Maybe I can even just call part of debconf to make it work?
02:41<jm_>no you didn't, grub-install /dev/hda1 doesn't put it in MBR
02:41<sasuke781>nooo i did that in the install
02:41<sasuke781>let me reiterate
02:41<sasuke781>i installed debian with all defaults
02:41<jm_>just reinstall it, it will be faster
02:41<sasuke781>no it wont
02:41<jm_>(GRUB, not Debian)
02:42<sasuke781>well how seem to know whats wrong
02:42<dpkg>So you installed windows after debian, huh? Tssk. Boot to your debian install disk or whatever else you have, switch to the other console (alt-f2), then mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext2 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ), then chroot into it (chroot /target) then run "mount /proc ; grub-install /dev/hda && update-grub" Also ask me about <dual boot guide>.
02:42<twb>>Sadness<; mplayer, at least, does it by hand with awk.
02:42<sasuke781>no i didnt install windows after debian
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02:44<jltate>Okay, just "nano /etc/apt/sources.list"'d.
02:44<sasuke781>your not helping very much man.....i told you....single boot debian...and the error.....that bot thing is annoying man....seriously
02:45<sasuke781>all i want to do is boot.....if you dont know how....say "i dont know" dont tell the bot to tell me -_- i've already wasted a week on this
02:46<meandtheshell>what is the equivalent command for "aptitude install <a_package_name>" on Suse?
02:46<Nemoder>jltate: this is what my stable sources.list looks like, use whatever mirror is better for you
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02:47<jm_>ok looks like this will be the easy way out: i dont know
02:47<sasuke781>oh haha thats real funny
02:47<sasuke781>someone needs help and you want to be a smartass -_-
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02:48<Nemoder>sasuke781: have you tried following a guide?
02:49<sasuke781>i dont know how to follow that guide....those guides were written by people that know debian like the back of their hand
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02:49<jltate>Alright, copied your sources.list file. Oregon state is good enough.
02:49<sasuke781>in other words...i need simple direction on how to fix it....and really fix it
02:49<jltate>I should note, however, that the line was the same, though the installed had it commented out saying that it failed verification.
02:50<Nemoder>jltate: you should then be able to ctrl-x to save and exit, then run tasksel to continue with install
02:50<sasuke781>so far everything i have tried has failed
02:50<sasuke781>hence....why i want to talk to a dev
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02:50<jltate>I don't think that worked.
02:50<Nemoder>sasuke781: if you can't follow a clearly written guide then talking to a dev would probably be even harder
02:51<jltate>After several seconds of screenfuls of "No such file or directory" it brought me to the software selection menu. Selected manual install then ok and it brought me back to the console.
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02:52<Nemoder>jltate: my bad, run apt-get update
02:52<Nemoder>jltate: then tasksel again :)
02:52<sasuke781>ok...look to me...that guide is too "advanced"
02:52<sasuke781>i dont know what a command is and what normal text is
02:52<sasuke781>its not clear
02:53<sasuke781>ok....i dont know whats so hard about my problem....theres probly over half the people that come here that know my problem by now
02:54<jltate>Erm... well this is odd.
02:54<jltate>How can it pass a DHCP lookup, yet fail pinging the router that responded?
02:55<jltate>Seems the ethernet connection I thought was working fine isn't.
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02:55<jltate>(which is especially weird since this is in VMWare with a bridged network adapter)
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02:57<sasuke781>even if i were to follow the guide.....whats to say it is grub?
02:57<Nemoder>jltate: I don't know much about vmware but you can run ifconfig to check the state of the adapter in debian
02:58<jltate>Yeah. It grabbed a valid IP in the range I have set up for DHCP.
02:58<sasuke781>nobody has said with sureness that grub is my problem
02:59<sasuke781>i dont even get error messages about grub....i just get "DISK BOOT FAILURE" right after bios does its thing
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03:00<Nemoder>well if you think it's your bios then go into your bios setup and make sure all the boot options are set correctly
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03:01<sasuke781>what boot options?
03:01<sasuke781>boot order?
03:01<sasuke781>it is
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03:02<sasuke781>i have tried disabling everything but hdd......still no go
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03:04<sasuke781>do you know of any specific things that need to be changed
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03:24<jltate>Well, what can I say. Windows has proven once again that it is retarded.
03:25<pelmon>yeah. i just compiled a kernel, but i don't see a .deb in /usr/src. i'm following a manual i found online so i'm not really sure where to look next for it. is anyone up?
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03:25<jltate>Windows is completely retarded.
03:25<Nemoder>pelmon: if you used make-kpkg that's where it should be
03:25<jltate>apt-get update is working fine, Nemoder.
03:25<Nemoder>nice :)
03:26<jltate>Seems VMWare didn't like that I was bridging my wireless with my wired connections.
03:26<Nemoder>try tasksel again, or aptitude
03:26<pelmon>i used
03:26<pelmon>time make dep clean modules modules_install bzImage
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03:26<Nemoder>pelmon: that may work but that's not the debian way to do it
03:26<jm_>pelmon: in that case you'd have to install it manually
03:27<pelmon>don't suppose you have a one-liner for that?
03:27<jm_>is it x86?
03:28<dpkg>To compile a kernel The Debian Way(tm) "apt-get install kernel-package build-essential libncurses5-dev" and follow the instructions in /usr/share/doc/kernel-package/README.gz; You should also ask me about <make-kpkg> and <kp mantra>, or just
03:28<pelmon>jm_ yeah
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03:29<pelmon>i just spent the last 44 minutes compiling it with the above command. if i can go forward from here then i'd rather do that
03:29<jm_>pelmon: cd /usr/src/linux-foo && cp arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/ && cp /boot/
03:30<jm_>wow 44 minutes, must be a slow system
03:30<jm_>after that you need to add it to boot loader, probably enough to run update-grub with default install
03:30<pelmon>i was wondering about that. the specs i read said it took about 44 mins on a 700mhz with 256 ram. i have 3.2ghz with a gig of ram
03:30<pelmon>dunno why it took so long
03:30<jm_>dual core?
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03:31<Nemoder>it can take a long time if you compile a ton of the modules with it
03:32<the-dude>or the rest of the system is busy
03:32<drama>does anyone know if there is a way to basically build a custom dvd? say with all my settings and the apps i use most already installed. i dont think reconstructor works with debian
03:33<jm_>drama: the answer is obviously no
03:34<jm_>that's a path to wherever your kernel is
03:35<Nemoder>drama: you could use something like the morphix distribution as a base
03:35<jm_>or bootcd
03:35<pelmon>cp: cannot stat `arch/i386/boot/bzImage': No such file or directory
03:35<drama>jm_ would that still give me debian as a base? sorry im sure thas a really noobish question
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03:36<jltate>Anyway, forgot to say it but I did think it. Thanks, Nemoder.
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03:36<jm_>drama: apt-cache show bootcd
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03:37<jm_>then you are in the wrong dir or your kernel failed to build or it isn't x86
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03:42<drama>also a question for anyone her using lenny. After an update on June 4, 2008, I have been seeing a lot of strange message on the console when I shut my system down. The messages completely fill the screen with lines that start with something like 2aec752ce000
03:42<drama>Then towards the middle of the line, there is a string containing a file name like /usr/lib/ or /lib/
03:42<drama>These lines fill the screen and I only have about 3 seconds to read them which is impossible. These lines do not appear in any of my system log files.
03:43<drama>anyone else seen this before?
03:43<jm_>sounds like core dumps maybe
03:43<jm_>or rather stacktrace
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03:44<Nemoder>personally I tend not to worry about things crashing on shutdown as long as they come back up again :)
03:46<drama>lib/<---with these lines it always says not found or critical error killing child...somethin like that...sorry i kno thas not much info
03:47<pelmon>jm_: ok. i got that to work.
03:47<pelmon>is that it?
03:47<jm_>you should capture it with serial or netconsole
03:47<jm_>pelmon: did you update boot loader config file like I mentioned?
03:47<pelmon> i missed that
03:49<drama>jm_ ill try that next time i reboot. tried using a camera in the past but it was always too blurry
03:49<pelmon>bash: update-grub: command not found
03:49<jm_>hmm I need to find mozex replacement for iceweasel 3
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03:49<jm_>maybe you're using lilo (you need to run it as root)
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03:50<jm_>drama: it's probably one process crashing
03:50<pelmon>no... i'm using grub. um dunno why it's not there
03:50<jm_>should be in /usr/sbin/update-grub or /usr/sbin/update-grub2
03:50<pelmon>yeah. got my consoles confused. wasn't root. ok. i ran update grup and it was successful
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03:51<Nemoder>drama: you could try changing runlevels instead of rebooting to see if you can catch it
03:51<Nemoder>assuming it isn't kernel related
03:51<pelmon>going to reboot. anything i should do first?
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04:00<drama>im thinking it might be gdm related. it doesnt happen when i reboot from the consol. only if i reboot from the gui
04:01<drama>one of the files mentioned is then it says stack vyso sum or other then killing remaining process FAILED
04:02<drama>Nemoder you mean booting as single user from grub or? sorry im still kind of a noob not so sure about run levels
04:02<Nemoder>drama: man init
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04:02<drama>ahh kk ty
04:03<drama>brb gotta go to the pc
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04:51<I`LoVe`GaNja>privet vam !!
04:51<dpkg>Russian speakers, please use (Pogalujsta, zajdite na) (Pazhaluista, zahodite na) #debian-russian @
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04:55<bugagga>Âèòÿÿÿÿ òû òóò ?
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04:56<[-MaxImeN-]>òóò ïèçäÿò ïî ðóóñêè?
04:56<[-MaxImeN-]> 8~)
04:56<jm_>can you stop?
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04:56<[-MaxImeN-]>÷î ñêàçàë?
04:56<bugagga>ñîñè õóé ëóïèíü áëÿòü
04:56<bugagga>éà â øîêå
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04:58-!-mode/#debian [+o dondelelcaro] by ChanServ
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04:58-!-mode/#debian [-o dondelelcaro] by dondelelcaro
04:58<themill>thanks, don
04:58<Klown>don gandon
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04:59<themill>Klown: do you have a debian-related question we can help you with?
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05:00<Klown>I`m speak Russia
05:00<boris_>hey,how do i find out which version of debian i got ?
05:00<dpkg>Kernel: uname -r. Debian: cat /etc/debian_version. and: dpkg -l libc6 | tail -n 1. Package: dpkg -l _pkgname_. Miscellaneous: try --version on the command. check /etc/apt/sources.list; run apt-cache policy <packagename>, or lsb_release -a, or cat /proc/version
05:00<padski>!tell Klown about ru
05:00<themill>Klown: /join #debian-russian
05:01<boris_>whats that called ? lenny ?
05:02<padski>aka etch
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05:02<boris_>so ive got some ultra old OS ?
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05:02<dpkg>Etch is the code name for the current stable Debian release, version 4.0, released on April 8th, 2007. Ask me about <install debian>. Please read the release notes at which also contain the upgrade procedure for upgrading from the previous version of Debian stable (<sarge>). Ask me about <stable>. currently <4.0r4>
05:02<themill>boris_: no, you've got the current version
05:03<boris_>oh, how do i get firefox 3.0 ?
05:04-!-klh [] has joined #debian
05:04<themill>boris_: since firefox 3 was released after etch was released, it's not part of etch.
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05:04<themill>!firefox 3 etch
05:04<dpkg>Firefox 3 requires GTK+ 2.10 and etch has GTK+ 2.8, see and at your own risk, or just wait until someone backports it
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05:05<boris_>themill: how do i upgrade my debian to lenny ? (lenny is between stable and unstable, yes ?)
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05:06<tommie>can somebody tell me what is going on with the cdimage server?
05:06<tommie>no images are available and links throughout d.o are incorrect
05:06<dpkg>i heard lenny is the codename for the next Debian release, currently testing. To upgrade to lenny, ask me about <etch->lenny>. Lenny is the binoculars. Lenny will be known as version 5.0 and the schedule is set for release in Sept 2008 (but ask me about <wwlr>). A <moving target>. <testing>, or <lenny status>
05:06<padski>boris_, try /msg dpkg etch->lenny
05:07<tommie>so it is normal that nobody can download debian at the moment?
05:07<padski>tommie, define normal
05:07<tommie>e.g. a new user arrives at d.o. The link is dead
05:08<tommie>if he manually goes to the cdimage server there is a folder 4.04 however it is empty
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05:08<dpkg>somebody said testing was a release/suite between <stable> and <unstable>. testing currently points to <lenny>. See for frequently asked questions about testing. Also check out for the initial release. Ask me about <etch->lenny>, or a few days old glorified unstable with missing packages, or ask me about <moving target>
05:08<tommie>so is there any ETA when the iso's are back?
05:08<gsimmons>tommie: The 4.0r4 installation media is still being prepared. Media for the previous stable point release (4.0r3) has been moved to
05:08<koan>boris_: but you better take a backup before you try to upgrade to lenny, because it can fail miserably
05:08<padski>tommie, i seem to recall the conversation going past yesterday. I'd say that it is in fact pretty normal for the coordination of these things to be quite relaxed :-)
05:09<tommie>okay but why are there broken links on d.o?
05:09<boris_>koan: ive got a completely new sys anyway
05:09<tommie>there should be a page informing users
05:09<jm_>tommie: get them from here
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05:10<tommie>jm_, i know
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05:10<jm_>so why are you bitching at us?
05:10<tommie>but new user don 't
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05:10<dondelelcaro>tommie: there are broken links because they are being rebuilt as we speak.
05:10<tommie>i am asking
05:10<tommie>why it is broken
05:10<dondelelcaro>tommie: r4 is the current release.
05:10<dondelelcaro>r3 is the old release.
05:10<jm_>because of 4.04
05:10<jm_>or r4 or how it's called
05:10<padski>is there a pseudo-package to bug ?
05:10<dondelelcaro>padski: for what?
05:10<tommie>i know there is a new release
05:11<padski>dondelelcaro, tommie's concern
05:11<boris_>guys, do i run apt-get dist-upgrade or aptitude dist-upgrade ?
05:11<dondelelcaro>padski: the appropriate people already know about it
05:11<tommie>but maybe for future release there should be a page to inform users that the images are temporarily unavailable
05:11<padski>dondelelcaro, I guessed as much :-)
05:12<louen>boris_: if you used apt-get, keep with it ; but on new systems, debian says to prefer aptitude
05:12<jm_>who cares if they can't install it for a day or two
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05:12<tommie>jm_, it is just not a clean way to do it
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05:13<themill>jm_: well, if I were trying to do a new install now and I didn't have a spare etch disk lying around, I'd be somewhere between perplexed and annoyed atm.
05:13<jm_>tommie: yes there will always be something people will whine about
05:13<dondelelcaro>this is actually fairly unusual; normally we don't remove the old images before the new ones are ready, but that's what happened.
05:13<dondelelcaro>and in all actuality, they've only been missing for all of a few hours, IIUC.
05:13<themill>dondelelcaro: since Sunday evening UTC at least
05:14<jm_>themill: really? i'd just use a different mirror
05:14<tommie>dondelelcaro, thanks for your response
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05:14<tommie>jm_, asking != whining
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05:17<themill>jm_: fair call... but most people (including me) would expect the "official images" list to be the primary source and if things are 404ing there then they are also going to do so on the mirrors. TBH I'd not bothered trying the mirrors when I saw that the images were missing. But I wasn't trying to install so I wasn't trying to hard :)
05:19<dondelelcaro>sure; normally this wouldn't happen. It's most likely that building the cds was snagged, or the upload of them required more space than was available
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05:20<dondelelcaro>the people who are doing it are volunteers and the hardware is donated, so these things happen
05:20<themill>yeah, sounds reasonable
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05:20<jm_>that's why I call it whining - people don't seem to understand it's all being done on voluntary basis
05:20<dondelelcaro>(it's just mildly annoying, because already 5 separate people have mailed -www about it)
05:21<themill>jm_: just because it's voluntary doesn't mean that it can't be done properly though. That's one of the great things about debian is that it normally *is* done so professionally.
05:22<jm_>themill: that's also not the point I was making ;)
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05:33<zxd>does anyone know how i can search for a package only from a specific repository like etch-backports
05:33<gizmokaka>how do i add refresh rate support to a resulotion?
05:34<jm_>!wayttd gizmokaka
05:34<dpkg>What Are You Trying To Do, gizmokaka?
05:34<zxd>ap-get -t works only with install command not search
05:34<gizmokaka>the output of xrandr is
05:34<gizmokaka>sec, give you all info
05:34<zxd>aptitude -t etch-backports search bacula seems to work
05:35<jm_>zxd: you can use aptitude
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05:35<gizmokaka>I wan't to stay with 1280 x 1024 resolution but have the option to increase refresh rate
05:36-!-OurWorld [] has joined #debian
05:36<jm_>are you sure your monitor supports it?
05:36<OurWorld>how Apt (now) ;)
05:36<zxd>why openoffice has 1: in "1:2.4.1-3~bpo40 "
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05:37<jm_>zxd: that's epoch
05:37<gizmokaka>well, no
05:37<OurWorld>((or) would that b: JustNnow)) ?? ;)
05:37<zxd>jm_, it's ver 2.4 ?
05:37<gizmokaka>but, y wouldn't it
05:37<zxd>of openoffice
05:37<jm_>gizmokaka: because it's too much for its capabilities? i mean why do you think it doesn't do 1600x1200 resolution?
05:38<jm_>zxd: yes
05:38<OurWorld>'s said /me doing a /me here is an unknown command
05:38<gizmokaka>jm_: no sure, but why wouldn't it. also if i tryed the 1024x768 with 87 which worked fine in widows
05:38<gizmokaka>85 in Windows
05:38<jm_>gizmokaka: check the X logfile, all the details should be there
05:38<OurWorld>i was about to say..i haven't really look'd @geekspeak in 4giv me
05:39<OurWorld>eachhoneypothasitsownfalsehistory i would think
05:39<OurWorld>what do i know o' what concerns rms (or2 that) tho, eh? :)
05:39<jm_>you can also try to query its capabilities with get-edid|parse-edid
05:39<gizmokaka>jm_: where is the log file?
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05:40<jm_>gizmokaka: in /var/log
05:40<OurWorld>hmm i feel wantN a beer. i hope rms will join Us at the green dolphin club in chi
05:40<themill>OurWorld: are you a bot
05:41*OurWorld bows out in a way minsky might ihope the oldsaint's bk is holding out etc ;)
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05:41<OurWorld>themill..find a bot like me and you get rich&famous with no barrrier..almost TO-morrow
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05:42<themill>dondelelcaro: ping
05:42<OurWorld>themill..i've one request however--You try4 worldPeace with it rather than to wipe out the Planet .. okay?
05:42-!-mode/#debian [+o dondelelcaro] by ChanServ
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05:42<themill>thanks, don
05:43<dondelelcaro>themill: I assume that's what you were asking about
05:43<themill>yeah :)
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05:43<themill>dondelelcaro: !ops-fests tend to be counter-productive especially at this time of day when there aren't many ops around. (btw shouldn't you be in bed?)
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05:44<ViperUnix>does eney of you kind people in her, knows if the is something wrong with the debian download mirrors ? - when i try to access them, it says that i can´t find the website.
05:45<Bleupomme>Hello, I have an upgrade cd with all the packages that are needed for our application. Over the years the cd has become too big. Does anybody know how to remove obsolete packages from this repository?
05:46<themill>Bleupomme: apt-get autoclean can be used to remove packages that are no-longer on the mirrors, you can tell apt-get what directory to use as the cache directory
05:46<Bleupomme>themill: thank you
05:47<themill>no worries. You could also look at something like apt-zip or apt-walkabout. (ask the dpkg bot about them: /msg dpkg apt-walkabout)
05:48<dondelelcaro>themill: working, unfortunatly.
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05:49<themill>dondelelcaro: oh dear. As in experiments that needed love at rude-o'clock? or a conference deadline?
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05:50<dondelelcaro>themill: nah, just data analysis that needs to be done before I get on a plane to debconf
05:51<dondelelcaro>(which people have been waiting for for a while)
05:51<themill>dondelelcaro: heh... at least you get to go somewhere nice ;) (I'll stop distracting you from your work now though....)
05:51<jm_>ViperUnix: you mean for CD-s?
05:52-!-mode/#debian [+l 345] by debhelper
05:52<ViperUnix>yearh, i am looking for the netinst cd
05:52<jm_>get it here
05:53<ViperUnix>sweet, thanks :)
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05:54<gizmokaka>how do i change my system fonts size in fluxbox?
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05:56<jm_>system fonts size for what?
05:57<gizmokaka>it's OK no need that is fine
05:57<gizmokaka>thanks jm_
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06:38<Web>Why is 4.0r4 cdimage gone ? maybe because of OpenSsl ?
06:39<tommie>Web, there is no iso yet
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06:39<tommie>the links on d.o are broken
06:40<tommie>Web, you can install the 4.0r3 and update afterwards
06:42<Web>Only business and netinstaller are there all images gone.
06:43<Web>It's a strange situation, CD-isoos gone, only on mirrors i can find it them back.
06:43<jm_>look on mirrors
06:44<jm_>ohh you already did
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06:45<Web>I pray for Debian, to solve the problems. it's the only thing i can do for them right now.
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06:59<Thotter>Hello. I am trying to get the fglrx driver to work with a two monitor setup, because I need compiz. It works fine if I disable the dualhead and use only one monitor, but as soon as I use two, compiz refuses to start and both fglrxinfo and glxinfo hang. I run debian lenny and I only used packages in the official repository
06:59<Thotter>any ideas what might be the problem?
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07:05<jm_>Thotter: you need to ask AMD for support
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07:18<Thotter>bleh, I hate non-freeness.
07:18<Thotter>If only it'd work with radeonhd
07:19<Thotter>Okay another question then, is there any other way than compositing to make windows negative and have a compiz-like zoomfunction?
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07:20<Zoup>do i still need irqbalance on SMP with very new kernel ?
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07:25<jm_>Zoup: kernel folks will tell you to use irqbalance if you want to evenly spread the load (i.e. it's apparently better than what kernel can do)
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08:01<raddmadd>ya know, every IRC channel is the same. A hundred people in the channel but not one talking.
08:01<angasule>hi, I need some info about a few packages but I don't have access to a debian testing box, and doesn't provide full info (doesn't list 'replaces', which is what I need), any way of doing it?
08:01<raddmadd>Well I suppose this ones different! Behold, raddmadd talking.
08:01<angasule>pst :P
08:02<jm_>angasule: you can look in Packages.* files
08:03<angasule>jm_: could you expand please? :) where do I get these files?
08:03<jm_>angasule: it's on Debian mirrors
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08:04<angasule>ah, ok, thanks
08:04<jm_> for example
08:04<jm_>similar for contrib and non-free etc.
08:04<angasule>ah, thank you, I was googling for one
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08:05<angasule>I'm trying to figure out if a proposal for a special openal package makes sense
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08:06<jc>good morning
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08:07<raddmadd>good morning, jc.
08:07<raddmadd>though for raddmadd 8 am is a time for sleep.
08:08<jc>is possible mark packets p2p for load balance for out outher link ?
08:08<jc>sorry ... other link
08:08<jc>I have two internet links a dedicated and a adsl.
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08:10<jc>I mark packets using iptables mangle + ipp2p module for send this packets for adsl link, but no success :(
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08:10<Sentinel>looking cool mirror for debian 4.0r4 iso :)
08:10<jm_>apparently 4.0r4 isos are still being made
08:11<jm_>use 4.0r3 for now
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08:12<jc>I created a new adsl table in rt_tables and redirect packets for there using iproute
08:13<Sentinel>release July 26th, 2008
08:13<jc>I execute SNAT for each out, others packets I obtain success example messengers,etc
08:13<jc>but p2p packets :(
08:14<jc>I try all, but I know how resolve this problem
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08:15<newbe1>hello everyone
08:15<newbe1>what's up
08:15<jc>I need route all trash traffic for adsl link and others traffic for link dedicate, sorry my english is terrible
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08:15<jc>the dedicate link is default
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08:16<jm_>jc: read advanced routing howto
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08:17<raddmadd>8 am and still up newbe1, lol. What's up with you?
08:18<jc>I try read lartc, but I dont speak english correct :)
08:18<newbe1>7:20 here
08:18<jc>is difficult
08:19<newbe1>raddmadd still up how long u been up
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08:19<jc>my problem is mark p2p packets, others packets I dont have problems for route to the adsl link
08:20<raddmadd>9 pm. My sleeping schedule is messed up :P
08:20<jm_>you can use ipp2p or layer-7 classifier to mark them
08:20<hendry>i'm trying to free space on my root partition. could i just nuke `rm -rf /var/cache`? or is that silly?
08:20<jc>anybody speak portuguese ?
08:20<dpkg>Por favor use #debian-pt para ajuda em portugues ou #debian-br para ajuda em portugues do brasil. ( /join #debian-pt )
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08:21<kcin8>anyone know where i could get the 4.0r4 iso images? when i look at its empty. also the same on all mirrors
08:21<raddmadd>ohh that's convienant.
08:21<jc>I try cockroach but no obtive help :)
08:21<jm_>kcin8: no not anybody does
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08:22<kcin8>say what?
08:22<jc>Is more easy here obtain international help :)
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08:22<newbe1>raddmadd need 2 relax if i am on net i can't sleep
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08:22<jc>no problem
08:23<raddmadd>newbe1: hehe, good advice. I suppose I need to take a break.
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08:23<kcin8>i'm looking for the netinst or the businesscard images to get a 4.0r4 system up
08:24<dpkg>"etch + 1/2" -- an update to Debian's stable release "etch" designed to provide support for newer hardware. It includes a 2.6.24 kernel along with an updated installer. Release notes: Installation instructions: See also, or <etchnhalf facts>
08:25<newbe1>going 2 switch channels
08:25<gsimmons>kcin8: Use installation media available from, then update your system once installed.
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08:26<kcin8>yeah i kinda wanted a fresh start with r4.. is it gonna take a while to have the images up?
08:27<gsimmons>kcin8: 1-2 days, according to the debian-cd mailing list. A bug was encountered during their building.
08:27<raddmadd>Later, friends.
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08:28<kcin8>oh i see. alright i might just wait for the images. thanks
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08:53<torswin>Hi. Uhm. I'm trying to install Debian on what shall become my little server, and yesterday you got me to download 4.0_r3 from ftp archive (netins) and it hangs up at "installing basic system" (installer grunnsystemet) by saying "Invalid version file: no valid components"
08:54<torswin>and now i dont know what to do :/
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08:55<E0x>torswin: check the md5 of the iso that you download
08:55<E0x>maybe is corrupt
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09:00<torswin>E0x: i'll try to download and burn it again since I dont have it anymore. Only thing is, where can I find the ISO again? :p Debian site still gives 404
09:01<E0x>debian site work fine here
09:01<E0x>what do you want ? the network install or the normal one ?
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09:03<torswin>E0x: network install. I go to, getting debian, download small image file, small CD i386 and i get 404
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09:03<E0x>question , when i compile a kernel o a package using make-kpkg or checkinstall compile the packages with i guess i386 optimization , where i can change that ?
09:03<qq_>torswin: [14:26:59] <gsimmons> kcin8: 1-2 days, according to the debian-cd mailing list. A bug was encountered during their building.
09:03<jm_>E0x: kernel config
09:04<E0x>torswin: check the link that jm_ paste
09:04<E0x>09:02 < jm_>
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09:06<torswin>thanks, downloading now :) lets hope it'll go better now. afk
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09:07<E0x>torswin: some download manager corrupt the downloads
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09:08<kesrut>if acpid deprecated which tool to use ?
09:09<kesrut>i disabled /etc/acpi/event in my kernel config
09:09<jm_>that doesn't mean acpid is deprecated
09:09<torswin>E0x: hope konqueror dont. i'll check the md5 before burning. will that be enough or should i check after burning too?
09:09<jm_>you can also try acpi-support package
09:10<torswin>if its possible that is
09:10<qq_>torswin: use wget to download the image
09:12<Sentinel>looking this iso
09:12<E0x>yes , wget
09:12<kesrut>jm_, i am installing acpi-support packages .. and package tries install acpid
09:12<kesrut>jm_, so which tool to use ?
09:13<torswin>qq_: is wget better or something?
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09:13<jm_>kesrut: ahh doh, in that case acpid will need to be modified
09:13<kesrut>jm_, ok
09:13<qq_>torswin: yes
09:13<jm_>kesrut: for now it's best to just enable those kernel options
09:14<kesrut>jm_, ok
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09:15<E0x>4.0_r4 are all empty
09:15<qq_>E0x: [14:26:59] <gsimmons> kcin8: 1-2 days, according to the debian-cd mailing list. A bug was encountered during their building.
09:16<jm_>kesrut: one can also use --eventfile with acpid - is there still a single event file in the new schema?
09:16<jakspanna27>does anybody know where i can an updated version of yahoo messenger
09:16<kesrut>jm_, i don't know ne eventfile
09:17<jm_>kesrut: check in /sys
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09:21<bencevoltam>i've a question
09:21<bencevoltam>about xorg.conf
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09:22<bencevoltam>how can i switch off automatical configuring?
09:22<jm_>write your own config file
09:23<bencevoltam>but won't be it replaced at next upgrade?
09:23<jm_>if anything it should either ask you or make a backup, it shouldn't replace config files without user's permission
09:23<bencevoltam>so this debconf thing is totally unknown for me
09:23<bencevoltam>ok, i'll see thx
09:23<jm_>granted, xorg.conf is special
09:24<kesrut>jm_, i checked sys not found /sys/acpi
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09:24<jm_>kesrut: i don't it's in /sys/acpi
09:24<kesrut>jm_, ok i will recompile kernel
09:25<jm_>I'll check if I have this enabled at home
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09:27<kesrut>jm_, ok
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09:30<jm_>kesrut: looks to be in /sys/bus/acpi
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09:36<Sertse>hey all
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09:52<asdfff>hola? alguien puede ayudarme?
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09:53<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
09:53<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
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09:57<Zoup>dear all , i need urgent help , i did mkfs.ext3 on my already ext3 partition , how can i recover ?
09:57<mordain>methinks you need to restore from your backup
09:57<the-dude>check out mondo
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10:02<Zoup>the-dude: no deb package ? :)
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10:14<neteler>hi, I have updated a sarge installation to etch but the old kernel remained. Now I try to update the kernel but it tells me:
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10:18<sladi>neteler: maybe you could do aptitude hold kernel386, so it doesn't want to remove it
10:19<sladi>neteler: after booting the new kernel I THINK it should be safe to remove the old one.
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10:22<neteler>yes, but it tells me these dangerous things before installation of the new kernel...
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10:27<neteler>sladi: the aptitude hold kernel-image-2.6.8-4-386 helped.
10:27<neteler>now there seems to be the new kernel
10:28<neteler>time to reboot? Is the new kernel the new default?
10:28<gizmokaka>Hi everyone, i have a problem thatstarted happing a few weeks ago but wasn't there before(probably some update caused it or something) i wanna share every detail needed with to solve it.
10:29<gizmokaka>after a while that i leave my computer, the screen turns off, lot leteratly, meaning the power light is still on but no display is available
10:29<gizmokaka>if right after it heppens i move my mouse then the display resumes
10:30<gizmokaka>as if it went into some kind of power saving mode
10:30<gizmokaka>but, if i leave it like that for a long period of time, the display stayes stuck on black screen
10:30<zxd>why so many cirtical updates
10:30<gizmokaka>i can't wake it up buy moving my mouse, clicking my keyboard
10:31<gizmokaka>or anything, i must restart the pc
10:31<gizmokaka>i tried to disable dpms
10:31<themill>dpkg: tell zxd about multiple ask
10:31<gizmokaka>but i guess i didn't do it to good cause it still happens, please can someone guide me on how to solve this?
10:32<gizmokaka>this is the only thing in debian(shifted from win) that really disturbes me
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10:49<sladi>neteler: It should be default, yes. It should be available as an entry in grub menu. You can verify in /boot/grub/menu.lst
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10:58<sirkit>/usr/bin/compiz.real: No composite exten
10:58*sirkit scratches his head
10:59<sirkit>what do I need to do/install?
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11:25<joseba>hola, hola
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12:03<mordain>can anyone tell me how to re-configure the resoluton of the gnome remote desktop ?
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12:17<adrian>hola a todos
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12:18<qq->hola adrian
12:19<adrian>de donde eres?
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12:20<adrian>hola david
12:20<adrian>cabrones os maldigo
12:21<adrian>ompa ompa
12:22<davidcruzca>maricon vete a la mielda
12:22<adrian>y tu tambien
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12:23<neteler>sladi: thanks - reboot worked like a charm
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12:32<morii>hi, using etckeeper with git on lenny autorun by apt* , is it a featue or a bug that a chmod go+x without changing the file itself is not detected? Or is it a feature? If a bug - can I manage this with metastore? Did one so?
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12:51<Knorrie>hm all those sysctl params confuse me, like about ipv4 forwarding, it's possible to enable ipv4 forwarding with net.ipv4.ip_forward or net.ipv4.conf.default.forwarding or net.ipv4.conf.all.forwarding etc etc
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12:51<Knorrie>i'm trying to configure an ipv6 box not to accept router advertisements
12:53<Knorrie>sysctl -w net.ipv6.conf.all.accept_ra=0 only changes the value in all/
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12:54<koops>hi people... Im into a doubt... I have an intel centrino duo and my question is what type of system should i dowlonad, 32bits or 64bits, couldsomeone explain to me whats all that about?
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12:57<qq->koops: whats recommend the vendor for ?
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12:58<koops>qq-, i dont really know... ive read that people says without any rassonable answer that 32bits its better than 64bits, my processor is 64bits capable... so i dont know what should i install...
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12:59<themill>koops: 32bit is still easier if you want non-free stuff like flash and java
12:59<qq->yes, it's depends on your needs
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13:00<koops>my needs are to have my computer runnin fast stable and takin all avantage of it
13:01<Nemoder>right now the only real advantage with 64bit is if you use over 4gb of ram.
13:01<koops>ok all people say that... why?
13:01<Gathond>well 3.5 iirc, since some of the 4 GB is reserved for PCI usage
13:01<koops>its a matter of processor not ram
13:01<koops>as i believe
13:02<Gathond>there is (for some things) also twice the number of general purpose registers
13:02<Gathond>depends on the algorithm whether this does anything
13:02<Gathond>koops: there is often no speed advantage in 64 bit itself
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13:03<qq->koops: how many ram ?
13:03<koops>so whats the idea then for processor of 64bits...?
13:03<Gathond>some things do benefit from 64 bit though, depending on the size of numbers being used
13:03<koops>i dont get why 64bits
13:03<Gathond>koops: more memory
13:03<koops>i have 2 gb of ram
13:04<qq->so 32 is ok
13:04<Gathond>because 4 GB of memory is not that much these days, and certainly won't be in a few years
13:04<Nemoder>well I run 64bit debian, but mostly just because I like to tinker with new things
13:04<cahoot>64bit an advantage in video coding and such?
13:04<koops>ive never used all my 2 gb of ram runin a lots of programs on my computer...
13:05<qq->try hlp than
13:05<Nemoder>there just aren't very many apps that take much advantage of it
13:05<Gathond>cahoot: probably, if the algorithm is capable of processing 64 bit chunks
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13:06<Gathond>cahoot: although I would expect most to use some form of SSE or similiar
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13:07<koops>ill check that out
13:07<qq->hpl will ests all your memory , if not more
13:07<koops>im in the wikipedia tryin to understand the all subject
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13:07<qq-> will eats *
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13:08<koops>so... 32bits better than 64bits systems
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13:09<plugwash>the main advantage of 64 bit is the extra memory support (though if you don't need it all in one app you can also use 32 bit with a bigmem kernel), the main disadvantage is worse compatibility with propietry software
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13:09<plugwash>performance is pretty similar in most cases, pointer heavy code will be a bit slower, arithmetic heavy code will be a bit faster
13:10<Gathond>koops: 64 bit kernels can run 32 bit code though
13:10<koops>ok now its makin sence
13:10<Gathond>against a bit of extra diskspace
13:11<cahoot>Gathond: thanks - read about SSE on wikipedia and soon realized I shall just continue to use the computer w/o knowing anything about the inner workings ;)
13:11<koops>well... so in conclusion... at least in my case that all i do with my computer is chat web browsin play music watch movies its to stick with 32 bits
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13:12<Nemoder>I haven't had problems running any 32bit apps on my 64bit system, but I'll admit it's not as easy to make some of it work
13:12<Nemoder>so if you want it simple just stick with 32
13:13<Gathond>Nemoder: I just have a 32 bit chroot installed
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13:13<koops>ok... thanks for opinions and help guys
13:14<Gathond>koops: 32 bit should do fine though
13:15<koops>well i dont want to have problems with apps ... or instalation problems of anythin... ive left windows long time ago, and with linux i feel like safer and more stable... dont ever want to have problems with soft nor with my computer....
13:16<koops>ive tried a lots of distros too, and none of all ive tried had all i needed
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13:17<koops>came up with the idea of makin on by myself, done it... and wanted to know what system should i have 32 or 64, never tried 64...
13:17<neonlightning>yea the only way you'll get one like you exactly want is using LFS
13:18<koops>neonlightning, that was the first thing i did... but it was really long and complicated
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13:18<neonlightning>hence why i haven't bothered
13:18<koops>all i did was install ubuntu i love debian based system and installed remastersys
13:19<neonlightning>i don't wanna try gentoo even because i don't want to setup the kernel grub or xorg(altho i went through hell with debian getting my system setup and still dont' have my 7button mouse working)
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13:21<davi>Will lenny include KDE 4.1 ?
13:22<mordy>hehe, more buttons than you know what to do with
13:23*mordy ponders a 70 button mouse
13:23*qq- hehe
13:24<Nemoder>heh maybe if you were a caterpillar
13:24<mordy>or a cat that liked eating buttons
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13:25<sioc>hi, i'm under lenny amd64 and wmaker, i got a trouble with the new iceweasel 3, i got png with transparency not display or display all transparent ?? any idea to fix that ?
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13:25<mordy>i'm having trouble with emacs - instead of seeing normal text, i see box ([]) characters. i know it has something to do with my locale etc. so i did dpkg-reconfigure locales and set my default local to be *utf-8, but no improvement
13:26<qq->sioc: just had your responce on #debian-fr
13:26<sioc>qq-: i just had a no solution there
13:26<qq->there in no one
13:27<neonlightning>mordy, i mostly have my 6 and 7 setup just for switching workspaces and controlling my music
13:27<mordy>neonlightning - yeah, and those browser buttons can be convenient as well ;)
13:27<neonlightning>me its the wheel tilts
13:27<Nemoder>!flamewar mng vs apng
13:28<neonlightning>logitech laser mouse v150
13:29<neonlightning>in fedora it just simply worked in pclos it took some tweaking but in debian nothing seems to get it working
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13:30<qq-> laser means use wifi ?
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13:31<mordy>hehe, i saw something pretty cool the other day - if you cat /proc/bus/devices/input/<mouse> and you move your mouse, you'll see garble wrtten to the screen
13:31<mordy>qq-: optical mouse
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13:32<neonlightning>yep i do that and found out only the event entrys have anything coming from 6 and 7 but if i set them using driver mouse it seems to totally break my x server but if i switch driver to evdev and do it i just don't get any xev output so its the same as using input/mouse with driver mouse
13:34<mordy>hehe, it's complex and annoying to get the simple things working in debian, but they are also pretty trivial. justmakes you feel bad that it's a pain in the ass to utilize your equipment to the maximum
13:35<mordy>gah, but i'm still pissed off at this emacs thing. why am i getting boxes? :((
13:35<neonlightning>sounds like a unicode issue
13:35<neonlightning>yea man it took me 4 days straight to just get my radeon 9250 and dell monitor configured in xorg
13:35<mordy>yeah, but i don't know how, or rather where to fix it
13:36<neonlightning>i'ed figure it'ed depend more on your terminal then emacs
13:36<mordy>neonlightning, but i gather that support for X is pretty marginal, since i think it's undersupported as the High Gods probably want you to use the console rather than the guis
13:36<mordy>i'm running emacs in gui mode though
13:37<neonlightning>ahh idk i don't use emacs me its medit or nano
13:37<morii>forgett my question about etckeeper, solved
13:38<mordy>hehe, i'm trying to get used to emacs, supposedly somehting 'good', and it does seem nice.
13:38<mordy>hehe, i like "Dr. Fill" on emacs
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13:39<qq->mordy: do you know #debian-offtopic ?
13:40<mordy>qq-: i've never been there :p - but i'm trying to figure out something in debian now, so i don't think offtopic is my destination
13:41<qq->was just in case
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13:45<fxiny>no fun joining #emacs , try joining #vi :P
13:45<qq->fxiny: no one there , too
13:46<fxiny>qq-: all the roads to freenode ?
13:46<mordy>i'm trying to see which one is better anyway - i guess i like emacs because i don't really use the 'orthodox' positioning of my fingers on the keyboard
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13:46<qq->fxiny: |
13:47<qq->never entered there
13:47<fxiny>qq-: my emacs works perfect , muse ecb and more
13:47<qq->here too
13:47<mordy>gah, so what cvan be the problem here?
13:47-!-sysop [] has joined #debian
13:47<qq->it's mordy trouble
13:48<qq->as usually ...
13:48<mordy>it's probably something simple, but gah
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13:48<qq->reconfigure locale ?
13:49<fxiny>maybe . or just bad fonts ?
13:49<mordy>qq- did that
13:49<mordy>maybe emacs is trying to use a font i don't have? but emacs in text mode works fine, it's just in gui mode that it doesn't
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13:50<fxiny>mordy: i use terminus : (set-face-font
13:50<fxiny>'default '"-xos4-terminus-bold-*-*-*-*-200-*-*-*-*-iso8859-15")
13:51<fxiny>play with fontsel
13:51<mordy>hmm..but how do ig et emacs to use it?
13:51<fxiny>fontsel ? hmmm ,i think i'm tired
13:52-!-mode/#debian [+l 365] by debhelper
13:52<qq->apt-get install xfonts-encodings xfonts-efont-unicode*
13:52<qq->look at >>>> apt-cache search xfonts
13:52<fxiny>mordy: ~.emacs > wc -l .emacs 79 .emacs , plenty of room :P
13:53<fxiny>mordy: type xfontsel
13:54<mordy>hmm... i'm getting some xfont packages, let's see if those will help
13:54<fxiny>mordy: no . check what's avaiable now by typing xfontsel
13:54<mordy>well, terminus isn't there
13:55<fxiny>of course
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13:56<fxiny>but anyway default fonts should work
13:56<mordy>hmm... i have no idea how to use xfontsel
13:56<mordy>maybe it's something to dow ith my DPI
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13:57<fxiny>you have no idea cause you don't know fonts: by clicking around you might learn
13:57<mordy>well, i know windows fonts
13:57<fxiny>xfontsel is a nice tool
13:58<fxiny>mordy: you can see realtime your fonts selection
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14:00<mordy>ahh.. i see, it lets me search for fonts based on criteria
14:01<mordy>so that's what all that gibberish on top is - parameters, took me a while to realizethat
14:01<mordy>but how does that helpme with emacs? i tried selecting the font using using the menu (which is readable) but anything ic hoose results in the same thing
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14:02<fxiny>mordy: by editing your ~/.emacs
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14:02<mordy>let's see what's there
14:03<mordy>and where do i find my ~/.emacs? it's not in my homedir
14:03<fxiny>use yours supercow powers :P
14:03<Hydroxide>mordy: ~ is another name for the home dir, so it would be the .emacs directory in your home directory
14:03<ley>sorry now espkengles
14:04<mordy>hydroxide, i tried that, but there's nothing there :(
14:04<fxiny>dir ? is a file
14:04<Hydroxide>mordy: it might not be visible at first since things beginning with a dot are hidden by default
14:04<Hydroxide>mordy: how are you viewing the directory?
14:04<mordy>but cat /home/mordy/.emacs should give me something, no?
14:04<Hydroxide>no, not if it's a directory
14:05<Hydroxide>try ls /home/mordy/.emacs
14:05<mordy>"No such file..."
14:05<fxiny>mordy: cat > ~/.emacs ,and type
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14:05<qq-> ls .emacs
14:05<fxiny>mordy: exit by C d
14:06<ley>alguem fala portugues
14:06<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
14:06<mordy>fxiny - you mean create the file?
14:06<dpkg>Por favor use #debian-pt para ajuda em portugues ou #debian-br para ajuda em portugues do brasil. ( /join #debian-pt )
14:07<fxiny>mordy: yes , next append cat >> ~/.emacs or use hmmm .vim to eduit ?
14:07<mordy>if it's not there and it's supposed to be there, then maybe i'll just reinstall the sucker (or is that bad unix practice?)
14:07<fxiny>vim is the best ever for editing conf
14:08<fxiny>mordy: no reinstall
14:08<fxiny>mordy: anytime you need info on apps check /usr/share/doc/that_app
14:09<Hydroxide>mordy: most config files in the home directory don't exist until there's something to put in them
14:09<Hydroxide>mordy: so no worries if it doesn't exist
14:09<mordy>hehe, i alwyas get stalled, i wouldn't even have gotten stuck with emacs now, had i nt been reading debian reference, which told me to use vim,and after using vim for a while, i realized i'd like emac's shortcuts better :(
14:09<Hydroxide>mordy: and feel free to create them
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14:10<mordy>ok, so i did cat > ~/.emacs - C d is control+d?
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14:13<mordy>fxiny - what am i supposed to do with this: "~.emacs > wc -l .emacs 79 .emacs"? (you postedthat a while back)
14:13<fxiny>mordy: nothing ., i have 79 lines there so you can have yours .
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14:15<AaDer>ola buen dia
14:15<fxiny>mordy: i suggest you get a decent fonts via xselect , and add it to ~/.emacs like i typed above for terminus .
14:15<AaDer>quien habla español
14:15<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
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14:18<fxiny>mordy: i'm using muse . planner , remember . diary . search apt-cache
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14:19<mordy>hehe, what are those?
14:19<mordy>or i guess i should search for their description
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14:20<ley>nao concigo
14:20<fxiny>mordy: i'm sure you'll love it
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14:21<mordy>hehe, i was experiencing other problems, so i just restarted X, emacs is working fine now
14:21<ley>esta aparecendo em ingles entrei
14:22<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
14:22<mordy>i think he's under the impression that he's speaking english :|
14:24<avu>mordy, no, he said 'it appears that this thing I entered is english', meaning that he realised that he's in an enlgish channel :)
14:24<koops>does anyone know how to transcode videos to .smv format?
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14:24<mordy>hehe avu, know portuguese?
14:24<avu>mordy, no, I know the internet
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14:25<avu>mordy, and thus google translate
14:25<neale>where would I go to ask about debian on an Apple MacBook Pro?
14:25<fxiny>mordy: for a console use you can check out jed and mg , for very large files qemacs
14:25<mordy>hehe, so many editors available. and i was content with windows notepad :|
14:26<neale>I suggest nano
14:26<neale>I don't use it myself but if you're coming from Windows you'll probably find it the least aggravating
14:26<Hydroxide>neale: some questions can be asked here, though #mactel-linux could also be helpful for certain specific questions
14:26<neale>Hydroxide: I'll try that first, thanks
14:27<Hydroxide>neale: be prepared to wait a lot longer for an answer there than here, since fewer people are there
14:27<mordy>but using vim i realized a few cool features which don't exist - ones which may be helpful, like deleting the rest of the line, jumping to end, beginning of lines, for example
14:27<Hydroxide>neale: I have to go get food now, but I'll see if you're still here when I get back - I currently have debian on a macbook pro so can probably help ou
14:27<fxiny>vim is great
14:27<Hydroxide>mordy: all of those exist in vim
14:28<neale>Hydroxide: I'm just having trouble getting it to boot
14:28<neale>I only want Linux, so I'm not using refit or whatever
14:28<fxiny>but emacs is the muses preferred editor
14:28<Hydroxide>neale: yeah, can be tricky sometimes. using refit is still helpful even if you don't want mac os x, but you can probably get away without it
14:28<neale>I get a folder with a flashing question mark
14:28<mordy>hydroxide - i mean they don't exist in other editors, i meant to say that vim informed me about those features. but i'm justmore comfortable using the control, alt, shift etc. keys :p
14:28<Hydroxide>neale: heading to food now ... will check back with you when I return
14:29<neale>Hydroxide: cool
14:29<Hydroxide>mordy: ah, gotcha
14:29<neale>I'll keep crawling the web
14:29<Hydroxide>good luck
14:29<mordy>hydroxide, besides, emacs comes with a psychiatrist which can be handy for me
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14:29<morii>does anyone know if this works with etch: an old IBM T21 128MB ram with suspend2disk/hibernate?
14:29<fxiny>s/preferred editor/preferred os/g :P
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14:30<mordy>hehe, i saw dpkg's factoid said that people use emacs as an OS, but is it really true?
14:30<dpkg>emacs is the extensible macro editor that is already quite extensively extended. A popular editor choice with major and minor modes for almost every conceivable language and task. High priests of emacs have even been known to use emacs as their shell, and sometimes have whole systems with init=/usr/bin/emacs. [Escape Meta Alt Control Shift], or, #emacs @
14:30<dpkg>rumour has it, vim is the only true editor, or does syntax highlighting, has graphical X interface. Extremely popular vi clone that does syntax highlighting or don't forget to get .vimrc file from or the best thing since sliced bread, an editor that rocks your socks!!!, or something very cool, said because we need to have as long a block of text as the <emacs> factoid, or see <vim syntax highlighting>
14:31<mordy>but emacs also has syntax highlighting - right?
14:31<koops>does anyone know how to transcode videos to .smv format?
14:32<fxiny>did i say emacs ecb ? nahhhhhh :P
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14:42<DeathBRingeR>can someone help me with the partition while installing r4
14:43<DeathBRingeR>like idk wut to do
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14:49<hasbo>WAKE THE FUCK UP
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15:12<grummund>critical bugs of linux-image-2.6.18-6-686 (2.6.18.dfsg.1-18etch6 -> 2.6.18.dfsg.1-22) <done>
15:13<grummund>#490753 - /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.18-6-686: kernel BUG at drivers/md/bitmap.c:1166! (Fixed: 2.6.24-1)
15:13<grummund>Are you sure you want to install/upgrade the above packages? [Y/n/?/...]
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15:14<grummund>apt-get tells me about package bugs... so if i go ahead with the above do i get the buggy package or the fixed package installed?
15:14<themill>grummund: it's fixed in the etchnhalf 2.6.24 kernel
15:15<themill>(according to apt-listbugs and also the bts_
15:15<neale>Hydroxide: I just gave up and used refit
15:15<Hydroxide>neale: hi there ... glad to hear you got a working solution
15:15<neale>what I did was boot in rescue mode
15:15<neale>aptitude install refit
15:15<neale>then run gptsync
15:15<neale>I don't know what that did but it boots now
15:16<neale>with lilo :\
15:16<grummund>themill: i was wondering what happens if i say yes to apt-get? i assume it would install 2.6.18-6-686
15:16<Hydroxide>neale: you can do grub just fine if you want
15:17<Hydroxide>neale: but not in the MBR, if you're using the hybrid gpt/mbr partition table such as gptsync sets up
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15:17<themill>grummund: yes. apt-listbugs is just telling you that these are known bugs in the package you are installing
15:17<neale>I'll try grub now
15:17<Hydroxide>neale: if you want grub, refit will scan the partitions and find it and list it as an option in the boot menu (which you might be able to set to have zero timeout)
15:17<Hydroxide>neale: but grub in the MBR only works if the partition table is pure MBR and no GPT
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15:18<neale>the debian installed made gpt
15:18<Hydroxide>neale: sure.
15:18<neale>but, whatever
15:18<Hydroxide>neale: you can put grub in a partition, and refit will find it
15:18<neale>so you think I can put grub in (hd0) now?
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15:18<Hydroxide>something like that, yes
15:18<Hydroxide>(depending on your layout)
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15:19<neale>this is the jack russel terrier of console cursors
15:19<neale>it's going to give me a seizure
15:19<grummund>themill: ok thanks. (i wasn't aware of etchnhalf)
15:20<Hydroxide>neale: if you want, you could use something like ms-sys or similar to restore a DOS/Windows-style MBR, then set the active bit (using fdisk or cfdisk but not a GPT-aware program like parted) on whichever partition you install grub to
15:20<Hydroxide>neale: that will probably make even the built-in OS X boot menu go to your grub
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15:20<Hydroxide>s/OS X/Mac firmware/
15:20<neale>I think I'm just going to stick with lilo until something gives me a reason to switch
15:20<Hydroxide>ok then
15:20<neale>I doubt I'll ever run any kernel other than what's in stable
15:21<neale>which should be lenny RSN (read: about a year)
15:21<Hydroxide>well if you stick with debian kernel packages (including custom ones packaged up using the debian tools), it should integrate very nicely with lilo
15:21<laurberg>does anyone know how to fix text in gnome/xfce/fluxbox that is not showing up ?
15:21<laurberg>im running Lenny.
15:21<Hydroxide>neale: as for lenny's release schedule, it's already frozen and is still on track to release around its targeted september timeframe
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15:21<neale>oh yeah?
15:21<Hydroxide>neale: that's 2008, not 2009
15:22*Hydroxide nods
15:22<neale>I've been with Debian since I guess about 1995
15:22<neale>I'm used to loooooooong release cycles
15:22<Hydroxide>yeah, the woody and sarge release cycles were not happy for those of us involved in Debian either
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15:22<Hydroxide>things have improved since then
15:22*neale nods
15:23<neale>Hydroxide: well thanks for chatting with me
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15:23<neale>laurberg: where should the text be showing up?
15:23<Hydroxide>neale: sure. good luck.
15:23<laurberg>neale: well, erhm - the thing is, there is no text at all.
15:23<laurberg>menu, boxes, buttons, etc.
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15:24<laurberg>i have tried lots of things now, even a complete purge of x, fonts, gnome, xfce, etc.
15:24<neale>If it were 1998 I'd ask you to check the X server
15:24<laurberg>with no luck :-/
15:24<neale>but I don't think the graphics card caches anti-aliased fonts
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15:24<neale>that's weird
15:24<laurberg>i have recently upgraded my system from a mixed etch/lenny to a non-mixed lenny system
15:24<neale>can you bring up X with just an xterm?
15:25<laurberg>with text.
15:25<neale>can you bring up xterm inside gnome?
15:25<neale>so the problem is the anti-aliased fonts
15:25<neale>so uhm
15:25<neale>bring up the xterm and run xdpyinfo
15:25<neale>see if the dpi is some ridiculous value
15:26<neale>maybe it things a 12-point font should be 1 pixel high
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15:27<laurberg>i can't see any dpi values ?
15:27<neale>screen #0:
15:27<neale> dimensions: 1280x1024 pixels (325x260 millimeters)
15:27<neale> resolution: 100x100 dots per inch
15:28<neale>what is it?
15:28<neale>that's not unreasonable
15:28<laurberg>for 160x1200
15:28<laurberg>for 1600x1200, even
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15:28<neale>that's okay
15:28<neale>5x6 would be unreasonable
15:29<laurberg>yeah :)
15:29<neale>105x105 is probably correct
15:29<neale>so, something to do with your rendering I guess
15:29<neale>I'm going to have to punt now
15:29<neale>but poke around with xft
15:29<laurberg>could it have something to do with gettext/locales ?
15:30<neale>if xterm works, gnome-terminal should work too
15:30<neale>the difference is the fonts
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15:30<neale>I'm guessing all your AA stuff is broken, and all your bitmapped stuff is fine
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15:31<qq->laurberg: try >>> xterm -fa Monospace-24
15:31<laurberg>qq-: ah, no text showing up :)
15:31<qq->run that in a terminal
15:31<laurberg>font problem, yeah
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15:33<qq->laurberg: apt-get install xfonts*
15:33<laurberg>hm, so - a reinstall of the font would fix it ?
15:33<qq->at least try
15:34<laurberg>358MB !
15:34<qq->my commande
15:34<simonrvn>at least choose some ... apt-cache search xfonts
15:36<qq-> dpkg -l | grep xfonts
15:36<dpkg>No packages found matching | grep xfonts
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15:36<qq->was not for you dpkg !
15:37<qq->laurberg: ^^^^
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15:38<laurberg>well, it did not work out
15:39<laurberg>which package does Monospace-24 belong to ?
15:39<qq->[21:35:42] <qq-> dpkg -l | grep xfonts
15:39<laurberg>and should a regenerate a font cache or something ?
15:39<qq->what xfont is installed ?
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15:40<laurberg>xfonts-100dpi and 75dpi, base, bitmap-mule, biznet-*, encodings, intl-european, jmk, knickers, mplus, nexus, scalable, terminus-*
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15:44<laurberg>i have just tried "xterm -fa Monospace-24" on a working lenny system.
15:44<laurberg>the font is blank there too.
15:45<qq->laurberg: change than the background collor
15:46<qq-> colour*
15:46<laurberg>why should that help ?
15:46-!-HaMMiE [] has joined #debian
15:46<qq->to see the blank collour text
15:46<qq->to see the blank colour text
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15:47<laurberg>well, that wouldn't help, if the text isnt rendered at all.
15:47<qq->maybe is
15:47<laurberg>it is not :)
15:48<qq->try first
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15:49<laurberg>well it does not work.
15:50<laurberg>xterm also sayes: xterm: unable to open font "-xos4-terminus-medium-r-normal--16-160-72-72-c-80-iso10646-1", trying "fixed"....
15:50<laurberg>when called with: xterm -fa Monospace-24
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15:54<timmy_boy>XTerm*boldFont: -xos4-terminus-medium-r-normal--14-140-72-72-c-80-iso8859-1
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15:54<timmy_boy>XTerm*font: -xos4-terminus-medium-r-normal--14-140-72-72-c-80-iso8859-1
15:54<dpkg>one warez list being sent to siromobi2
15:55-!-AaDer [~Rsdf@] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
15:55<timmy_boy>I got those from ~/.Xdefaults and I stole them from gentoo forums.
15:55<laurberg>ill just try them out
15:55<laurberg>hang on
15:55<timmy_boy>laurberg: grep terminus /etc/X11/xorg.conf
15:55*themill looks at those font strings and remembers why he uses konsole
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15:56<laurberg>xterm: unable to open font "-xos4-terminus-medium-r-normal--14-140-72-72-c-80-iso8859-1", trying "fixed"....
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15:57<laurberg>my xorg.conf says nothing about terminus
15:57<laurberg>timmy_boy: does yours ?
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15:58<timmy_boy>$ grep terminus /etc/X11/xorg.conf FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/terminus/"
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15:58<simonrvn>SiroMobi2: useless warezer
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15:58<qq->laurberg: install konsole (as suggered by themill )
15:59<laurberg>does konsole help on gnome,xfce,fluxbox problem where the text is not rendered ?
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16:00<SiroMobi2>i don't speak english
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16:01<newsense>im using exim and it currently adds my users real name in the "from:" line in all emails i send how can i change this ?
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16:02<Azhrarn>can anyone point me in the direction of documentation for setting up an NFS slave (or NFS redundancy/failover in general)?
16:02<qq->laurberg: apt-cache policy libxrender1
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16:04<qq-> slave conf is in /etc/default/nfs...
16:04<laurberg>qq-: and what should i look for in the output ?
16:05<qq->just give me the output
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16:05<eldowan>I've got a certain daemon that likes to start child processes with a nice of around -10, which there is no need. Is there an easy way to automagically coerce those children to be at a nicer level?
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16:06<qq->laurberg: don't PM my
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16:06<laurberg>okay, then i need to spam the channel.
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16:07<dpkg>Do not paste more than 3 lines to this channel. Instead, use: or or for pics. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste!
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16:07<laurberg>ah, ok
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16:08<dpkg>hello, web
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16:11<qq->laurberg: are you on etch ?
16:12<themill>qq-: not with a policy output like that he's not
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16:12<qq->ok, why have you mixed the repos ?
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16:13<themill>laurberg: can you pastebin the output "apt-cache policy"
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16:14<laurberg>qq-: yeah - i have gone from a mixed etch/lenny system to a non-mixed lenny system
16:14<laurberg>as said earlier :)
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16:15<themill>laurberg: you had both lenny and sid sources in the output. I presume you have appropriate pinning in place so that you're not running sid?
16:15<qq->hehe, and now you had a mixed lenny/sid
16:16<themill>dpkg: tell laurberg about
16:16<Web>How can i make Iceweasel the 'standard' browser ?
16:16<laurberg>themill: yeah, my preferences-file is okay
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16:16<Hideo>Web: what do you mean standard, like default?
16:17<Web>yep like default
16:17<qq->Web: just say y on the question asked by browser
16:17<erKURITA>It depends
16:17<erKURITA>you have to do it manually in Gnome
16:17<themill>Web: update-alternatives to set it system-wide-ish
16:18-!-pennythesetter [] has joined #debian
16:18<Hideo>Web: update-alternatives --config x-www-browser
16:19<Nemoder>I take it gnome doesn't follow the x-www-browser link?
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16:20<laurberg>qq-: well, i have some kvm and xen packages from sid, that is.
16:20<laurberg>according to apt-show-versions
16:21<qq->laurberg: use full sid is better
16:21<Web>ThnX to you all, it's workin fine now.
16:21<themill>qq-: do not recommend sid to people here on #debian.
16:22<qq->ok themill
16:22<themill>qq-: In fact, don't ever recommend sid to people. Sid isn't designed for people to use -- it's designed to be a staging area.
16:23<qq->( I'm useing , my bad)
16:23<Hydroxide>themill: more accurately, it's only designed for use by people who can deal with occasional breakage and resolve it when it happens, which can include some groups of people but certainly not most people in #debian
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16:23<timmy_boy>Can I assume stable->server testing->desktop unstable->developer ?
16:24<themill>Hydroxide: well... it was originally only designed to be a staging area... and it is frequently impossible to run a pure-sid system. But you are mostly correct... ;)
16:24<Hydroxide>themill: I run a pure-sid system on a routine basis - multiple in fact - and mostly have since 2000
16:24<Hydroxide>themill: but, yes, you can't always do an upgrade of every package every day
16:24<Hydroxide>themill: and have to pay attention to dependency tangles and such
16:24<Hydroxide>themill: not for the faint of heart
16:25<themill>Hydroxide: which makes it not a pure sid system but a mixture of sid and old sid
16:25<themill>Hydroxide: very much so. I prefer to stick to the "not designed for use by humans" line :)
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16:25<Hydroxide>themill: well, that's a semantic argument that's not worth getting into. suffice it to say that aptitude can resolve most of the problems automatically, and most of the packages are usually up to date, but exceptions occur often
16:25<Hydroxide>themill: I'd say "not designed" period :)
16:26<Hydroxide>timmy_boy: that's mostly accurate, yes, though some people prefer stable for desktops if they care more about reliability than up-to-date software
16:26<Hydroxide>timmy_boy: and testing will probably be less stable than in recent months for some period of time after lenny releases, while invasive new changes go into the new testing release
16:27<maxb_>stable -> a user who just wants to _use_ debian with a minimum of annoyance. testing -> for someone who has a reasonable understanding of apt/dpkg, is prepared to deal with the issues from time to time, and is prepared to upgrade on a weekly basis or more often
16:27<maxb_>(I'd say)
16:27<themill>timmy_boy: I only use stable on machines I care about. As lenny freezes down, I'll probably take my laptop across to it. I can't be bothered working *on* my computer all the time so I run stable. OTOH, mrs themill is running lenny on her laptop...
16:27<compaq>stable runs better and faster, I don't see any point in running testing unless you are writing code
16:27<Hydroxide>maxb_: I don't think that upgrades are really a requirement for using testing any more than for using stable, though some degree of updating is important for both, at least with regard to keeping one's system secure
16:28<Hydroxide>compaq: there are various reasons to use newer versions, but certainly stable is great if it works for you
16:28<laurberg>themill+qq-: easy now, i have been using debian for about 10 years.
16:28<maxb_>Hydroxide: Well, that was kind of my point. The only way to know you have a decent level of security coverage with testing is to stay close to current.
16:28<Hydroxide>maxb_: that's true with stable too, though
16:29<laurberg>themill: and i won't go for a complete sid on my desktop i use for work.
16:29<themill>Hydroxide: you do end up in a corner with lenny on a regular basis where to install A you have to upgrade B..Z. Or to pick up a security update for A you have to also upgrade B..Z. It gets ugly.
16:29<Hydroxide>maxb_: (though there are DTSAs for testing and DSAs for stable to advise of issues)
16:29<compaq>Hydroxide, true, as an example, if some new snazzy graphics came out into testing, then maybe I couldn't wait, and would be running it, and so if some other stuff that someone else was interested in...thats understandable
16:29<Hydroxide>themill: sure. it's less static than stable, and that's as intended.
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16:30<themill>Hydroxide: it just makes it more work. I can't be arsed.
16:30<Hydroxide>compaq: for example, yes.
16:30<maxb_>OK, what I should have said is: regular updating of testing is required to be sure of not being bitten by a dependency snarl when you least want it.
16:30<Hydroxide>themill: and that's perfectly fine. I'm not trying to argue against stable
16:30<compaq>Lenny was giving me problems though, I can't remember what, but it was slow somehow
16:30<Azhrarn>for loading firmware in the new installer, can I just use a deb, or should I extract the deb onto the media first? ( )
16:31<Hydroxide>maxb_: well, again, you probably won't want to do much updating of testing shortly after the lenny release - it will get messy for a while, then should stabilize again. (unless your sources.list has lenny instead of testing, in which case you'll stick with lenny as it becomes stable)
16:31<laurberg>but i cant figure out why gnome,xfce,etc does not show any text
16:31<compaq>man...yesterday, I installed wireless, woow, it was so easy, I thought it was impossible, what is the link, I got it here, and made the notes but I returned the laptop, it was dpkg who told me
16:31<dpkg>Support for your wireless LAN device is dependent on the chipset within. Don't know what you have? Ask me about <what's my wireless>. Atheros: <madwifi>; Atmel: <at76_usb>; Broadcom: <bcm43xx>, <b43>; Intel: <ipw2100>, <ipw2200>, <ipw3945>; Ralink: <rt2x00>; Realtek: <rtl-wifi>; ZyDAS: <zd1211rw>. See also: <wlan howto>, <wpa>, <killswitch>, <wmaster0>.
16:31<themill>Hydroxide: that was actually in response to your commend about updating for testing being only as problematic as for etch. I'd say it's much more problematic... it can be like running RHL 4 all over again where you have to reconfigure apache just to pick up the security update because it was done with a version bump rather than a backport
16:31<Hydroxide>maxb_: although if you feel like dealing with the dependency snarls that will arise, you'll get rewarded by getting any security updates
16:32<Hydroxide>afk, phone
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16:32<laurberg>maybe it has something do with my font paths in my xorg ?
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16:32<laurberg>does anyone have a working xorg config for lenny with fonts ?
16:33<dpkg>The module is built into the kernel from etch onwards but you need the firmware to make the card work. Run "/sbin/modinfo ipw2200 |grep version" to get your driver version. Go to and download the firmware matching your driver version. Unpack it into /lib/firmware. See For sarge, ask me about <ipw2200 build>. See also <ipw2200 troubleshooting>
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16:34<timmy_boy>laurberg: whereis fonts # Do you get /usr/share/fonts/ ?
16:34<themill>Hydroxide: fast talker :)
16:34<Hydroxide>themill: brief call :)
16:35<laurberg>timmy_boy: /usr/share/fonts
16:35<laurberg>says whereis
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16:35<timmy_boy>laurberg: I don't know the debian way, but I use an editor for /etc/X11/xorg.conf and restart X. :)
16:36<laurberg>same here
16:36<laurberg>but i dont think my xorg.conf is correct after my upgrade to lenny
16:36<qq->laurberg: btw paste your xorg
16:37<laurberg>qq-: it would be better for me to have a working xorg conf
16:37<laurberg>i could take the one from my laptop, though... erhm.
16:37<timmy_boy>laurberg: Newer X versions can work with no xorg.conf but that might not work for you.
16:37<MoDaX>laurberg: remove it
16:37<Hydroxide>themill: and I agree that updating for testing is more problematic than for stable ... but part of the major inherent difference between the two is that testing has more up-to-date software and stable changes less. it's not a bug IMHO, just something to consider when choosing what to run
16:38<laurberg>MoDaX: if i remove it, startx will complain
16:38<MoDaX>laurberg: how?
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16:39<qq->laurberg: dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
16:39<Azhrarn>so, the installer is asking for bnx2-06-4.0.5.fw to be loaded from a usb drive, and I threw that file onto a usb key. It scans the key and then returns asking for the fw file again :/
16:40<compaq>laurberg, xorg.conf is different in Lenny, there is no monitor section in it anymore, dunno where it went, but its gone from there
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16:41<compaq> I remember, thats why I rolled back, its supposed to be like windows, where you just plug and play your monitor, without reconfigure, but it didn't quite work for me
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16:42<laurberg>now with a new xorg based on dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
16:42<compaq>I like 1024x768, I'm not into these high resolutions, cause the fonts get too small
16:42<laurberg>but still no text in gnome
16:42<qq->laurberg: fill a bug than
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16:43<laurberg>hehe :)
16:43<compaq>in Lenny, I had to change resolution in gnome, or kde, and it worked, but not quite totally, it was still off a bit, so many apps had tiny fonts, so I would go in and change fonts, but still, like vlc, the fonts were so small I couldn't even read them, unless I moved up way close to the monitor
16:44<compaq>I hope they notice this issue of mine, before lenny goes stable in Sept.
16:44<themill>compaq: is this with no xorg.conf file at all
16:45<Hydroxide>compaq: you might have to specify DisplaySize in your xorg.conf - apps seem to like it best when you lie about the actual size and specify the right lengths (in mm) so that, for your preferred resolution, it ends up using 96 dpi
16:45<compaq>man....the masons gave me some kinda skin disease, and its on my scalp, and its making my hair fall out. I think I am gonna run back to Pakistan for medical care, cause these Canadian docs are all mason puppets. Or just gay enthusiasts
16:45<compaq>themill, no, if you run dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg, in Lenny, there is no Monitor section
16:46<Hydroxide>compaq: yeah, but you can add it if needed.
16:46<themill>compaq: the font size should be the same irrespective of resolution -- the idea is that the size of the monitor is taken into account when translating "10pt" into the number of pixels on screen.
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16:46<themill>compaq: if you have a sensible font size and things are the wrong sizes, then your monitor is providing incorrect information to xorg so you will have to override it with xorg.conf (displaysize as Hydroxide said)
16:47<compaq>themill, I know you are right, although I am not too knowledgeable about it, but to the fonts definitely go smaller when you go higher resolutions
16:48<compaq>they are same number in configuration. But I mean, 12pt, on 1024x768 is much larger than on 1400x1024
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16:48<themill>If the display size is correct, they shouldn't be
16:49<benjtcarlin>Hi there .. how could i find this guy if i wanted to talk to him "ph_alpha2"?
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16:49<Hydroxide>themill: as I said, most apps I've seen expect the DPI to be 96 in order to display reasonably (I've heard certain other DPIs tossed around too)
16:49<Hydroxide>themill: even if it requires lying about the physical screen size
16:49<compaq>themill, I think you are not understanding me. reconfiguring x make the screen length wider, and so fonts go smaller
16:49<compaq>themill, How else does the screen get larger... c'mon man
16:50<themill>Hydroxide: yeah, gnome, kde and gimp all have their own dpi settings
16:50<Hydroxide>compaq: if an app is trying to show something that's 2 inches on the screen, it should display at the same size regardless of the resolution. that's the theory behind things like dpi and physical display sizes
16:51<compaq>I mean I don't care if I go bald, I already got used to not getting laid, but whats next
16:51<Hydroxide>compaq: (as opposed to 2px)
16:51<Hydroxide>compaq: many apps are written to assume a specific DPI setting, or have their own DPI setting separate from the systemwide one
16:51<compaq>Hydroxide, I am sure you are correct, but I cannot deny my own eyes
16:51<Hydroxide>compaq: so the theory doesn't work very well in practice, at least in the computer world
16:51<Hydroxide>compaq: I'm explaining why you are seeing what you're seeing
16:51<Hydroxide>compaq: I'm agreeing with you
16:51<compaq>Hydroxide, I see
16:52<themill>compaq: 12pt is a physical measure 1pt = 1/72 inches so 12pt=1/6 inches on screen. The number of pixels used should not change. If you are using gnome though, then you might have to tell gnome that you've changed the DPI setting so that it can translate these sizes correctly.
16:52<compaq>Hydroxide, sorry about that
16:52<Hydroxide>compaq: you're seeing what you're seeing because the theory isn't followed properly in practice. I've already told you how to resolve it - please let me know if that doesn't work for you
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16:52<Hydroxide>compaq: either you can change DPI settings in various different places to make it all match your physical DPI, or you can lie to X about your screen size so that the DPI matches what your software expects
16:53<compaq>Hydroxide, well, I already rolled back to stable
16:53<Hydroxide>(different places would be e.g. gnome or kde settings, or possibly fontconfig if you aren't using one of those)
16:53<compaq>Hydroxide, even the terminal
16:54<Hydroxide>compaq: ok then. if you decide to try lenny again, that's how to fix it. if themill's solution and my solution still don't work, ask here again, but try them first
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16:55<compaq>even the terminal fonts are smaller with higher resolution. It could just be my eyes decieving me, and the fonts are actually same size, they just look smaller, but my dad has really thick lenses, and he sets his monitor to 800x600, even less than that, so I was like yeah, what is this high resolution business if you just use computer for entertainment
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16:55<compaq>But before that, I use to always run at max resolution
16:55-!-giota [] has quit []
16:56<Hydroxide>compaq: it applies to terminal fonts too in X, yes. in modern software they do fonts the same way everything else does
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16:56<Hydroxide>err, there's more than one way to do it, but I mean the same way every GNOME/KDE app does - i.e. using fontconfig
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16:57<Hydroxide>it's a matter of getting the fontconfig DPI setting to match what X's DPI setting is
16:57<Hydroxide>changing either one should work - themill suggested changing fontconfig (by way of the GNOME or KDE or other environment's settings windows)
16:57<Hydroxide>and I suggested changing X
16:57<compaq>Hydroxide, I appreciate you help, and I see what you are saying, but my main point was, that in lenny, I could get to the regular way of having 1024x768, like I do in etch
16:58<MoDaX>compaq: xrandr
16:58<compaq>Hydroxide, but I never tried adjusting dpi settings, I didn't know about it
16:58<Hydroxide>compaq: yeah. the server is a bit more dynamic now, and it probably was just assuming 96 DPI before instead of determining what your actual DPI is
16:58<compaq>MoDaX, thats what you guys were telling me, and I just used the one in gnome, which is same thing, it doesn't quite work the same as dpkg-reconfigure
16:58<Hydroxide>compaq: it now does that, but software isn't used to it
16:59<MoDaX>compaq: dpkg-reconfigure is more or less obsolete now
16:59<Hydroxide>compaq: so eventually the various software libraries will probably get fixed
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16:59<MoDaX>dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg I mean
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17:00<Hydroxide>MoDaX: well, the debian xorg.conf template (which can be regenerated with "dexconf") is still a good starting point from which to specify any customizations you need
17:00<compaq>MoDaX, well, that the only time I ever used dpkg-reconfigure, I know it configures other packages too, but I never needed it, or knew of them. For what else have you use it?
17:00<Hydroxide>MoDaX: by default it should do basically the same thing as no xorg.conf
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17:00<MoDaX>Hydroxide: worse. it used to add unnecessary options
17:01<Hydroxide>MoDaX: MoDaX well that's not true any more
17:01<MoDaX>not sure if the situation has improved. not very tempted to try
17:01<Hydroxide>MoDaX: it has improved.
17:01<compaq>Yesterday I installed etch on a dell laptop, and it was missing lots of scripts. Like when the screen lid is closed, it would turn off the screen, but when you re-open, it would turn the screen back in, I had to copy some code into an sh file
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17:01<compaq>ibm laptops are a breeze
17:01<newsense>im using exim and it currently adds my users real name in the "from:" line in all emails i send how can i change this ?
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17:02<MoDaX>compaq: etch might simply be too old
17:02<compaq>what inet (internet super server)
17:02<Hydroxide>MoDaX: if you try it out, you will not be disappointed in the improvements of Debian xorg.conf management :)
17:02<supaman>newsense: that is more of an issue with the mail client, not the mail transfer agent
17:02<MoDaX>newsense: what do you want to change it to?
17:02<compaq>MoDaX, its still new to me, hehehe, I was running woody just a couple years ago
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17:03<newsense>a different name people will recognize
17:03<MoDaX>compaq: heh
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17:03<compaq>is running exim mail server complicated?
17:03<newsense>im just running for localhost and sending to isps smarthost for remote mails
17:03<Hydroxide>compaq: not if you want to use something that Debian's configuration stuff can handle
17:03<newsense>thats easy enough
17:04<Hydroxide>compaq: (i.e. you can do dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config to change settings)
17:04<newsense>just this one little thing i cant figure out
17:04<compaq>hmmm, if someone can run samba, and getting going and configured, then how much more complicated would you approximate exim configuring would be
17:04<Hydroxide>compaq: if you want to do more advanced things, then yes it can be complicated, but so can its full-featured competitors
17:05<MoDaX>newsense: to change your email address you need to edit /etc/email-adresses
17:05<newsense>i did that
17:05<compaq>Hydroxide, cool, so I can just use dpkg-reconfigure and get a basic mail server going
17:05<Hydroxide>compaq: I'd say you should go ahead and try it if you want to
17:05<MoDaX>full name is taken from /etc/passwd I guess
17:05<Hydroxide>compaq: yep you can
17:05<compaq>But I would need a dns
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17:05<newsense>it uses my isp given email but adds my users "real name" to it
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17:05<newsense>MoDaX: i know that but do youb know how i can change exim from adding it to from lines ?
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17:06<compaq>I was thinking I buy a internet website name for $30/year, and then run a mail server
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17:06<compaq>cause I have highspeed internet, with dhcp server, but they pretty much give us the same ip
17:06<qq->good look than
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17:08<compaq>But if I buy a name from some compay, then how do I make it so, when someone types that name into their browser it goes to my IP, do I do just call up the IP consortium, or something, and tell them assign this ip to the name I bought??
17:09<MoDaX>newsense: dunno the config option
17:09<newsense>me wither
17:09<newsense>guess ill just have to change my users "real name" locally
17:10<compaq>is that one of many that provide that service?
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17:11<newsense>checkout too
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17:12<newsense>youre looking for aq registrar and some are listed there
17:12<newsense>id look at the faq's if youre new to how dns works
17:13<Azhrarn>has anyone had experience loading a firmware-* deb in the new installer?
17:13<Azhrarn>I'm trying to load and it refuses to read off the CD, and the usb key I have is unrecognized
17:14<compaq>I remember once installing Debian using the full cd's and it doesn't work as well, i can't remember what, but it gave me trouble. Netinstall works so much better, but I was thinking if I have no internet, I better have some full debian CD's
17:14<compaq>anyone installs using full CD's
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17:15<qq->Azhrarn: ^^^^
17:15<Web>I made a local mirror...........
17:15<compaq>newsense, thanks for the links, I bookmarked them, how did you know, do you have a website?
17:15<MoDaX>newsense: but I also think MUA adds From. exim (MTA) may only rewrite it
17:15<Azhrarn>thank you very much
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17:16<Azhrarn>is there any way to force it to read off the CD? I find it odd that it asks for removable media but won't use the cd drive it's being installed on (I can even switch to a shell and mount the d to see the files, but not sure how to point the installer at it)
17:16<compaq>I was gonna start a linux business, but these hardware vendors are a real pain, they always cheating. I went to buy a dell gx280 2.0 sff, and left with compaq 2.4 motherboard, with 2.0 cpu, which I thought was cool, cause I have a better mother board, but my cpu skyrockets all the time
17:18<qq->Azhrarn: try the installtion from USB key
17:19<Azhrarn>yeah, I'm trying a usb key now
17:19<Azhrarn>although I dropped the fw files on one and it didn't detect them
17:19<Azhrarn>(it did access the key though)
17:20<newsense>compaq: gonna sell computers with linux pre-installed ?
17:20<compaq>check out my business plan at I did it last week, but i gave up today, so I will revamp
17:20<compaq>newsense, yep
17:21<newsense>i thought about that at one time
17:21<compaq>all these used computer dealers are related to Bill Hates
17:21<compaq>They are long lost relatives for real
17:21<newsense>all my friends want is a cheap computer with pirated vista
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17:21<ptr>howdy, folk
17:21<supaman>newsense: get yourself some new friends
17:21<qq->Azhrarn: need to read the install doc first very clear
17:21<compaq>newsense, yep, they all want MS
17:21<Azhrarn>yeah, I'm trying a deb this time
17:21<newsense>ive converted a few
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17:22<compaq>the people who want Linux can install it themselves, and the people who can't install want windows
17:22<newsense>ones with 700mhz computers that like the peed of linux
17:22<newsense>time for a new non spilled on keyboard
17:22<compaq>newsense, did you check out the site?
17:23<newsense>compaq: sorry didnt see that
17:23<newsense>checking it out now
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17:23<compaq>thanks, be kind, a little criticism, cool, but be gentle
17:24<foforito>ok men
17:24<foforito>is nice to meet you
17:24<compaq>newsense, is it slow to load over there?
17:24<newsense>compaq: page cant be found
17:24<compaq>newsense, oops, I forget the plural
17:24<newsense>no it doesnt find the page pretty fast
17:25<newsense>great load time
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17:25<foforito>hello someone
17:25-!-tamis [~tamis@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:25<foforito>i want to talk
17:26<qq->not here
17:26-!-slaxz [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:26<qq->wrong chanal
17:26<foforito>but why?
17:26<foforito>is everybody bad talkers?
17:26<qq->read the topic
17:26<compaq>newsense, its really slow? seriously?
17:26<newsense>compaq: nice i especially like the part about debian on the server page
17:27<compaq>its not so bad here
17:27<newsense>no its fast i said
17:27<compaq>newsense, thanks, I wish I could find a quote thats say Linux is very secure though, from the debian site
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17:27<foforito>ok bye
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17:29<newsense>compaq: check out secton 2.3
17:29<compaq>newsense, I was thinking I buy hardware from but then yesterday I went and bought a laptop, p4 1.86, 1g, 80gig, for 399+13%tax, and then today I went to thesource and saw a new laptop, with widscreen for only 449
17:29<newsense>sounds pretty good
17:29<newsense>i need a laptop
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17:31<compaq>yeah, its was so nice, so I returned the used laptop I bought, and next time, not now though, but I will just buy my laptop new
17:31<compaq>desktop its cool, but a used one, but a used laptop is not worth it, I just assumed that place was giving a good deal cause they have cheap desktops
17:31<Azhrarn>I hate broadcom
17:32<newsense>i really want a fileserver for my home network!
17:32<compaq>acer rules, I hope lots of debian people buy acer laptops, cause they are so cheap
17:32<bop>How can I reset the virtual terminals? I must have hit Ctrl+Alt+F6 at just the wrong time while the X server was restarting, because now instead of a VT I get a corrupted view of graphical KDE
17:32<compaq>Thing is, when you buy a new laptop, you can find so many resouces of people configuring them
17:32<qq->hey , please use #debian-offtopic
17:34<compaq>Like I bought a used dell laptop, and if I bought it first, I would never be able to configure it, but a few years later, after so many debian users bought it, configured it, now if I buy one its easy for me to configure, otherwise impossible. I mean, I can't write the scipt I copied that turns the screen back on when you re-open the lid
17:35<compaq>anyone ever used nsdiswrapper and wine or some sort, for printers?
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17:36<compaq>Cause I picked up this Cannon bjc 5100 from the garbage, and it works fine, but no linux drivers. And I looked on databazaar, and its priced at $5000
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17:38<compaq>But I will never trust MS computer for security. They sobs come cracking when ever they feel like. My Bill Gates' cocksucking brother, sent me some virus that pop-burned a capacitor on my main board, and I am stuck with cpu that I been holding on for years now
17:38<compaq>I can't throw shit out
17:38<qq->compaq: follow my advice, please !
17:38<compaq>very sorry, please forgive
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17:40<syntax>dotCOMmie: what are some popular, free web site statistics software?
17:40<syntax>er, not dotCOMmie ... OT
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17:42<newsense>compaq: not exactly whjat ya want but its some good info
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17:43<compaq>newsense, the best package system in the world by light years, my God, deb and apt-get is totally awesome
17:44<newsense>yeah it is
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17:47<compaq>When I first used Linux it was redhat, and I liked it of course, cause it was Unix as far as I was concerned, but rpm was a real pain, and I went back to MS for relaxation, then when my system got hacked, I went back to Linux and tried debian, I tried aptitude and apt-get and was like woow
17:47<compaq>I've spent days just apt getting like a retart
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17:48<newsense>i started on redhat than played with windows than quickly went to debian
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17:50<compaq>lets list them all since childhood. commodore 64, 128, Amigo 1000, 2000, MSDos, Windows 98, 2000, XP, Linux RedHat, Debian............FOREVER, heheheh
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18:00<newsense>i got into computers late, never had an interest really
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18:03<compaq>I never really used MSDos or 98 much, but video games on Amiga were awesome
18:03<compaq>for kids
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18:06<erKURITA>compaq never played Monkey Island then
18:06<erKURITA>or Another World
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18:09<compaq>maybe, can't remember names so well, there was this volley ball game on Amiga that was awesome
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18:13<Zoup>i did recreated ext3 on already exist ext3 filesystem , while inodes are lost lde shows that lots of info are available in blocks , how can i automatic recover block to files using lde or any other utility
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18:15<qq->Zoup: fsck.ext3 --help
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18:17<Zoup>qq-: sorry can you please be more specific ? im in kind of stress
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18:25<qq->Zoup: use fsck.ext3 for recover your partition , look at options "-c -p -l -L -y"
18:25<qq->sure unmount that before dooing fsck
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18:28<Zoup>qq-: thank you , will this move all disconnected blocks to lost and found
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18:29<qq->Zoup: I dunno
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18:29<qq->but in any case that blocks will be not reused
18:30<Zoup>qq-: i guess there have to be some tool to recover data from raw partition , checking for headers just like lde does , but automatic
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18:35<SaintK>hi, i have a question. I want to upgrade a mobo/cpu in a machine, and i wonder if i can do that without getting into trouble of needing to re-install it. The mobo uses a differant chipset, but the CPU remains from the same type (From a E6550 to a Q6600)
18:35<qq->Zoup: I dunno , sry
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18:37<qq->SaintK: must be ok
18:38<SaintK>qq-: Thanks!
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18:57<qq->Zoup: mondo - powerful disaster recovery suite
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19:23<segfau1t>anyone with a core2duo && amd64 kernel?
19:23<abrotman>and if i do?
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19:24<qq->hi abrotman
19:25<segfau1t>i'd like to know how it compares to a x86 system
19:25<avu>in what way?
19:26<avu>you mean a i386 kernel and an amd64 kernel on the same system?
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19:26<segfau1t>yeap, and also the gnu apps,e tc.
19:26<avu>won't be much of a difference for most workloads.
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19:27<segfau1t>because i'm thinking if its worth changing my laptop to an entire 64bit environment
19:27<avu>how much memory?
19:28<segfau1t>only 2GB.
19:28<avu>then there won't be any noticable difference (again, for *most* workloads)
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19:29<segfau1t>i know about the 32bits limits, pae, etc, i just would like to know about visible differences
19:29<segfau1t>ah, ok
19:30<qq->and less trouble for useing proprietary stuff , on 32
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19:51<ananda>Hi all, just wanted to know if Airport Extreme support (bcm4306 I think) in Lenny is viable or not as I'm looking to purchase a 2nd hand ibook
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19:53<abrotman>ananda: i have a PPC mini (1.4Ghz) .. and whatever wifi i have in that works in lenny
19:53<abrotman>it is b43 based
19:55<ananda>Aye, I knew it was b43 based just wanted to know if anybody's got any tales to tell of support in the latest Lenny kernels.
19:56<ananda>abrotman: does it work with WPA?
19:56<abrotman>uhm .. my laptop only does WEP .. so that's all i did .. as worthless as it is
19:56<abrotman>(my x86 laptop)
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19:57<ptr>So, I am about to have a filesystem that's about 7TB
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19:57<abrotman>you wish!
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19:58<ptr>Well, the thing is, I'd like to be able to shrink it ;)
19:58<ananda>aye well WEP isn't the best...but I reckon that getting an old ibook is more cost effective than one of these new 'netbooks'
19:58<ananda>a 12" iBook that is..
19:58<abrotman>ananda: it may not be the best .. but i suppose it's marginally better than unencrypted
19:58<ptr>Is reiser3 really my only option? ext3 seems like a bad idea, given that that's its maximum size and it can't be all that efficient
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20:01<qq>ptr: give me 7TB and i'll put ext3 in
20:02<qq>thx in advance
20:02<ptr>It's not *mine*
20:02<abrotman>ptr: pretty sure you can't shrink xfs .. jfs neither ?
20:02<ptr>In the end, it's not absolutely necessary, but it'd be nice, and we may want to do it in the future
20:03<qq>ext4 will come too ... in the future
20:04<abrotman>ptr: so why not ext3 ?
20:05<abrotman>ptr: if you make the block size more than 4KB .. it goes 8TB for filesystem size
20:05<abrotman>erm .. 4KB or more
20:05<abrotman>bah .. wathever ..
20:06<ptr>out of curiosity, is it known whether there'll be an ext3->4 upgrade tool? Will I be able to 'tune2fs -4 /dev/mapper/vg0-bigvol'?
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20:06<ptr>abrotman: sorry---was pulled away
20:06<ptr>typhoon winds
20:06<abrotman>okay then
20:07<abrotman>with regard to your question about ext4 .. guess you'd probably ask the kernel people
20:07<ptr>:P anyway, I know that ext3 goes up to 8TB.... and the space inefficiency of using 4kb blocks isn't too terrible in this case, but are there any other drawbacks I should be aware of?
20:07<ptr>Sorry, this line of questioning is getting out of hand
20:07<ptr>I think I know the answer already, but I just wanted to confirm it
20:08<ptr>But I've clearly been in the server closet too long
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20:09<ptr>abrotman: thanks
20:10<qq>btw , 7TB , sata, scsi or ?
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20:12<abrotman>does it really matter?
20:12<ptr>it doesn't
20:12<ptr>I'm obsessing
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20:13<ptr>qq: lvm on raid5 on 8 sata drives
20:13<qq>ah , ok
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20:15<koops>hi guys... one question, how can i figureout an ip from a skype contact?
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20:17<qq> whois ?
20:18<koops>qq, my sister... want to do a vnc to her to help her out but she doesnt know how to get the ip even if i tell her how to do it
20:19<themill>koops: send her to
20:19<qq>as root >>>ifconfig
20:20<abrotman>which fails on private addresses
20:20<koops>themill, hey that will help thanks!!
20:20<koops>qq, there appear a lot of stuff
20:20<themill>abrotman: of course....
20:20<abrotman>themill: some people don't understand that though
20:20<themill>koops: that will only give you the public address. If she has a local network to traverse too, then you'll have to configure that too for vnc
20:21<koops>themill, no shes not shes direct connected...
20:21<koops>themill, thanks
20:21<themill>good luck with it
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20:50<Ghost>Does anyone have a checksum for Debian-lennyBeta2-amd64-DVD1.iso?
20:51<abrotman>should be one on the site where you downloaded it
20:51<Ghost>I'm using Bittorrent.
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20:52<dondelelcaro>Ghost: it'd still be in the same place
20:53<dondelelcaro>(you should also check the signatures on the SHA1SUMS)
20:53<Ghost>Cool, thanks guys.
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20:54<Ghost>And Wine is supported by 64-bit installations, right?
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20:58<SledgY>Ghost: Probably require the 32bit libs installed
20:59<henry>hi all
20:59<SledgY>Ghost: lots of info here
21:00<henry>know the program in debian etch "p2m " for download?
21:00<Ghost>Okay, thanks.
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21:02<qq>"p2m " do what ?
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21:10<Pryon>man p2m?
21:11<qq>No manual entry for p2m
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21:11<Pryon>Hmmm. Not in apt-cache either.
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21:28<pelmon>i went to run a game and the colors are seriously messed up. the screen was all black with SOME green. it was wolfenstein ET so it was a 3D openGL game. any ideas how i can troubleshoot this?
21:29<qq>stop gaming ?
21:30<pelmon>i'm tempted to build a box dedicated to games
21:30<qq>tempted means ?
21:30<pelmon>i have a core2duo but i'm not sure if the processors can run the games i want them to
21:31<pelmon>i'm not really sure how core2duos work with games
21:31<abrotman>which card/driver?
21:31<pelmon>geforce 6200 tc
21:31<pelmon>latest driver
21:32<pelmon>this system is becoming more trouble that it's worth.
21:32<abrotman>there is a #nvidia on
21:33-!-aredhel [] has joined #debian
21:33<abrotman>is that the only GL app that does it wrong?
21:34<pelmon>oh yeah. it's happening with the whole system
21:35<qq>how old are you ?
21:36<abrotman>why does that matter .. at all?
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21:37<qq>this matter , the youngs want systems turn-key
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21:39<qq>so , how old are you pelmon ?
21:39<abrotman>why does that matter .. at all?
21:39<abrotman>it has nothing to do with his problem .. stop asking him
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21:41<pelmon>my age has no bearing on my problem and would only retard your argument. drop it
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21:53<Silent>Hey guys, I need some quick help installing Debian on my computer.
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21:54<Silent>I need to install it again because I muff'd up some stuff, but anyway- Last time I installed Debian, I couldn't see anything because the monitor doesn't support the installation resolution. I remember there's some keys I press on the boot screen, then I typed like vga### or something like that, which made it force the installation go to a certain resolution that worked on my monitor..
21:55<Silent>I can't remember what i'm supposed to type to change the installation resolution
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21:59<Silent>found it, it's install vga=### .
21:59-!-Silent [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]]
22:01<wcr2007>hi, everyone. I failed to install 32bit debian on AMD phenom 8450 CPU. I have turned acpi and apic off. Can anyone has such expericnce tell me how to? Thanks a lot.
22:03<Nemoder>wcr2007: what part failed?
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22:06<wcr2007>after I entering kernel option,it reports a: Bug , int 16 error ...
22:07<Nemoder>which installer did you use? there was a new release for etch yesterday with added hardware support
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22:10<wcr2007>I use debian etch and ubuntu 8.04. but it's fine when I used ubutun 5.1
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22:11<wcr2007>I think there must be some new kernel option on 32 bit which does not compatible with ADM
22:12<Nemoder>wcr2007: what is the name of the ISO you used for etch?
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22:25<wcr2007>this is the url of my image:
22:25<wcr2007>Other release also has such problem.
22:25<Nemoder>wcr2007: ok, that is r3 , r4 just came out, there is also the lenny beta installer that might work better
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22:26<wcr2007>Nemoder:Thank you. I will try it.
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22:45<koops>hey people me again...
22:45<koops>i have a problem with firefox
22:45<koops>it closes with this error
22:46<koops>can you help me, again?
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22:46<Nemoder>koops: I would suggest creating a new system user and running firefox there, if it still crashes then submit a bug report
22:47<koops>mmmmm....... ive just created this user...
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22:51<koops>whats the alternative for firefox
22:51<koops>i hate it
22:51<koops>it is always crashin and lots of bugs
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22:52<abrotman>konqueror? epiphany?
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22:53<koops>under gnome epiphany right?
22:53<koops>ill try firefox2 and see what it happens
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23:00<koops>and guess what
23:00<koops>firefox 2 doesnt crush
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23:18<knifemonk>hihi :)
23:20<knifemonk>im looking for a stable alternative to ubuntu for someone who has little understanding of computers, if i where to install the latest debian stable release for this person, setup it up to their liking and train them in it's use would I be on the right track?
23:21<knifemonk>because personally i think debian is the shiz niz, just unsure of how the latest offering rates
23:21<knifemonk>no? v_v
23:21<knifemonk>it sounded like a fool-proof plan in my own mind, please explain
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23:22<qq>knifemonk: just let him doing that himself
23:22<knifemonk>he would have to find the power button first :s
23:22<qq>as all we have done
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23:23<qq>if he want , he will
23:24<qq>if not, you 'll lost your time
23:25<knifemonk>its a favour, no time wasted
23:26<knifemonk>think i'll just step him through the process
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23:27<qq>no self interest , any help is useless
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23:27<qq>!!! he would have to find the power button first :s!!!
23:27<knifemonk>lol pretty much
23:27<qq>that sad all
23:28<qq> said *
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23:45<newlnx>Hi Guys,I new to linux so sorry if I'll ask dumb q? when they say linux server do they mean a Linux distro configured to work as a server?
23:48-!-g80 [~g80@] has joined #debian
23:48<h2-gw>newlnx, a server is a server whether it's linux, unix, or windows
23:48<Da_Nemesis>yes a machine which has unix on it and is a server
23:48<h2-gw>it's kind of a vague term
23:48<timmy_boy>newlnx: server could be webserver (apache, lighttpd) or a mail server such as qmail.
23:48<h2-gw>if your operating system is running some server, it can be considered a server
23:49<h2-gw>newlnx so yes in answer to your question
23:49<timmy_boy>I forgot SQL servers like MySQL and Postgres.
23:49<h2-gw>probably not running much gui desktop stuff ideally
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23:57<newlnx>ok, so if I have a linux distro and installed apache , Mysql, mail server and samba on that distro I'll have a linux server correct
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23:57<qq>newlnx: yes
23:58<qq>allmost all ppl here had at least a server
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---Logclosed Wed Jul 30 00:00:02 2008