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#debian IRC Logs for 2008-09-16

---Logopened Tue Sep 16 00:00:42 2008
---Daychanged Tue Sep 16 2008
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00:01<oipunx>hey
00:01-!-freealan [~freealan@220-135-120-204.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #debian
00:01<oipunx>what are all these watchdog/1,2,3 and migration/1,2,3 services
00:01<oipunx>and ksoftirqd/1,2,3 etc
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00:31<BlackbirdGeorge>hello
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00:33<BlackbirdGeorge>I need help installing my d-link pcmcia wireless card
00:34<BlackbirdGeorge>Is anyone there?
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00:34<BlackbirdGeorge>who
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00:39<Zorro>I'm having a sound problem. Some applications (Sauerbraten, Quake 3) seem to use sound fine, but many others dont (media players, ect). In gnome, I go to system-preferences-sound and all of the sound tests fail. does anyone have any suggestions?
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00:43<Nemoder>Zorro: gnome uses esd for sound, make sure that program is running and there are no errors from dmesg about it
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00:45<RIVE>Hi, good evening.
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00:48<Zorro>esd is running. apparently alsaconf fixes the problem, but only until reboot :/
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00:49<Zorro>the problem is that the soundcard is in use by another application, but that doesn't make sense, since it's like that from a fresh boot
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00:55<Arthuza>any1 know the package in lenny that auto dims your monitor on a laptop?
00:56<Nemoder>Arthuza: try acpi-support
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00:58<daniiel>soo, all of a sudden and for no apparent reason (no changes), my sound stopped working, my sound applications can't see my sound device either, any ideas?
00:58<Arthuza>no go :(
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01:01<daniiel>!portmap
01:01<dpkg>for sun RPC based services (like NFS and NIS). To disable it, simply remove the "portmap" package. But be careful, if you running NFS on a remote box, your box doesnt boot then...
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01:02<Zorro>daniiel, I may be having the same problem
01:04<Zorro>try running sudo alsaconf
01:04<Zorro>for me, it complains about the soundcard being in use somehow and that temporarily fixes it
01:06<daniiel>mine apparently isn't being seen as a device anymore
01:06<Zorro>ahh
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01:17<daniiel>for any reason would acpi or apm be needed for sound to operate?
01:18<jm_>sounds unlikely
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01:21<Arthuza>does anyone know how to disable the automatic brightness ajuster on a laptop using lenny
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01:23<chealer>Arthuza: which laptop?
01:24<Arthuza>asus M50v
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01:27<daniiel>im using lenny with alsa, my driver is snd_intel8x0, what should the /dev/XXX sound device be?
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01:28<daniiel>it seems to have disappeared or become undetectable.
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01:29<jm_>daniiel: run 'cat /proc/asound/cards'
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01:30<daniiel>jm_: i see it, and it's correct, but my applications son't seem to
01:30<jm_>daniiel: what's the error then?
01:32<daniiel>it was working and just stopped, xfmedia, xfce4-volume-control won't list it in the devices; iceweasel no sound either
01:32-!-egns [~vortigaun@253.Red-80-59-28.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #debian
01:32<jm_>what did you do to make that happen?
01:33<daniiel>haha, nothing i know of..=) i just went to play some music and sound wouldn't come out
01:33<jm_>what does aplay do?
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01:34<daniiel>lemme get a song..one sec
01:34<daniiel>usually listen to stream
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01:37<daniiel>makes some god-awful loud static (white noise) that scared me to death
01:38<daniiel>that broke the silence..
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01:39<daniiel>alsamixer sees the card aswell
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01:47<jm_>what did you play with it?
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01:52<interbird>normally the 'hard-sound-device' is /dev/dsp0 or the symlink /dev/dsp -- if this device is not present, then hardwahis device re might not be recognized 'out-of-the-box' -- anything alsa, esd, oss or pxx are sub-systems using t
01:53<interbird>s/hardwahis/hardware
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01:53<jm_>no, alsa apps don't use /dev/dsp
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01:54<interbird>like gnome does not use /dev/had?
01:55<interbird>(hda)
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01:58<interbird>try cat some-pcm-file > /dev/dsp -- if that gives sound the card is recognized and subsystems like alsa and ... can be connected to it and even share it
01:58<cahoot>better run speaker-test
01:58<interbird>true
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01:59<interbird>i like the *mooooowww* cow-sound :-)
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02:03<daniiel>ok, my speaker-test works, alsamixer sees my card but for some reason sound from applications won't play
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02:03<daniiel>and it did work earlier today.
02:03<jm_>gnome/kde apps?
02:03<cahoot>they ouptu to alsa? no esd or artsd blocking?
02:03<interbird>applications have preferences? like selecting stream to use ?
02:03<daniiel>xfce desktop
02:04<interbird>daniel: try xfce global settings for selecting device/stream
02:04<interbird>daniiel: try xfce global settings for selecting device/stream
02:05<jm_>check its sound settings
02:05<daniiel>xfce sound settings where you can choose device, has none available
02:05<daniiel>just the <default> which doesn't work
02:05<interbird>daniiel: xfce sound-deamon running ?
02:05<daniiel>it used to list the sound card
02:06<jm_>try with another user
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02:07<daniiel>i did, i even created a new user
02:07<interbird>or just reboot; if your setup is quacky then it's best to see how things are after a fresh start; if not working still then we go tackle stuff bit-by-bit
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02:07<daniiel>ok
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02:08<jm_>why would reboot oslve anything when sound works ...
02:08<interbird>jm: because of daemons conflicting on the device; dunno what he has loaded...
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02:09<jm_>interbird: doesn't make sense - in that case speaker-test would fail too
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02:09<interbird>jm: no it would not because it bypasses alsa, esd,...
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02:10<cahoot>it uses alsa - not bypass it
02:10<jm_>interbird: where are you getting these ideas from?
02:11<interbird>jm: experience ?
02:11<jm_>interbird: you must be kidding me -- speaker-test comes with alsa-utils
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02:12<interbird>jm_: let's not ague and see what a reboot does for daniiel, ok ? (I'm against reboot but i also know that for sound it can help; and there is no better test-bed than a clean slate)
02:13<interbird>s/ague/argue
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02:17<daniiel>still no
02:17<dondelelcaro>rebooting is almost never the answer
02:17<daniiel>i just noticed my memory usage is really high, one sec
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02:18<interbird>dondelelcaro: disagree and easy to say after daniiel's reply for the reboot not solving the prob
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02:19<interbird>daniiel: did you check your alsa-mixer? maybe it is muted and in async with the other filters
02:19<daniiel>something is using about 600MB of memory thats usually isn't used, and sounds not working..hmm
02:19<dondelelcaro>the only thing you should ever reboot for is to upgrade kernels; otherwise it's totally a waste of time
02:19<daniiel>=)
02:19<dondelelcaro>s/ever/& need/
02:19<jm_>or if you're using cisco vpn, disconnect it and want to reconnect again
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02:20<jm_>i really need to try vpnc in place of it one day
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02:20<interbird>dondelelcaro: bullshit; sometimes something hangs, like some browser-plugin, eating-up cpu and ctrl-alt-fx does not work
02:21<dondelelcaro>so you hit sysreq and kill it off
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02:22<dondelelcaro>plus, you'll note that I said "should"; bugs obviously are not the normal mode of operation.
02:22<dondelelcaro>(and rebooting to debug is kind of silly)
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02:23<interbird>can't be killed, even not with sysreq and network-interface also dies; that a hard shit and only a hard reset can overcome that. You must have experienced that one in your lifetime no ?
02:24<SledgY>interbird: Not on decent hardware
02:24<dondelelcaro>uh... a process that is running and cannot be killed? Haven't seen it recently.
02:24<interbird>define decent
02:24<SledgY>Intel Pro Nics
02:24<SledgY>I've not had anything like that happen in 5-6years
02:24<interbird>and how long a time do you run on that and how long a time u use debian ?
02:25<dondelelcaro>on loads of hardware, almost certainly longer than you have
02:25<SledgY>Debian's been my primary OS on desktop and server for 3-4 years
02:25<interbird>are you one of these lucky birds ? :-)
02:26<dondelelcaro>I've seen bugs, and I've run processes into swapping out, but it's pretty rare to run into that kind of problem
02:26<SledgY>Worst I usually have to do is hit Ctrl+Alt+Backspace to restart X
02:26<dondelelcaro>(and when you do, it's almost always a bug)
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02:27<SledgY>Had some odd things on certain hardware, although was caused by a binary blob on a SunSparc machine
02:27<interbird>dondelelcaro: let's not get into "i show you my scars ... shit" -- if you can't confirm that shit happens even on debian then you have no scars...
02:28<dondelelcaro>interbird: it certainly can happen; it's just a bug. It's not something that "should" happen.
02:28<dondelelcaro>and regardless, having people reboot to debug things isn't terribly productive
02:28<dondelelcaro>(esp. in cases involving sound)
02:28<SledgY>Network manager is cause of most of my networking grief although that has improved greatly of late
02:29-!-edward_ [~edward@h182050.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #debian
02:29<edward_>morning...
02:29<SledgY>dondelelcaro: Often I've found removing and reinserting a module fixes those kind of issues
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02:30<RIVE>I have little scars using Debian, but those are easy to cure,
02:30<SledgY>rather than having to do a reboot
02:30<dondelelcaro>SledgY: could be; depends on the particular issue
02:30<SledgY>Of course
02:30<daniiel>so i logged in as root in xfce, and sound workd, so this seems like a persissions issue
02:30<interbird>solving problems while there is something wrong underneath is not very productive too. so in the case of problem-solving, may it be debian, solaris, osx, os/2, windows, or whatever... if there is a problem, first thing is to reboot to get a clean slate, no ?
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02:31<dondelelcaro>interbird: no
02:31<interbird>no?
02:31<jm_>daniiel: if that was the case alsamixer wouldn't work, neither would aplay
02:31<jm_>or speaker-test
02:31<dondelelcaro>!tell daniiel -about alsa checklist
02:31<interbird>what would you do then ?
02:31<dondelelcaro>daniiel: go through the checklist that dpkg told you
02:31<dondelelcaro>interbird: identify the problem and resolve it
02:32<RIVE>The problem is to identify the problem.
02:32<dondelelcaro>sure, which is the first thing that you do
02:32*phillipsjk in confused about wether his problems are crappy hardware, or poorly maintianed drivers for said hardware.
02:32<interbird>dondelelcaro: true; i understand you; i forgot to mention to make a snapshot of the prob situation for further analasys; true !
02:32<edward_>quick one.. : howcome if i run update-grub it changes my kernel path from root=..sda to hda ? whare is the mapping for the drives.. ?
02:32<dondelelcaro>phillipsjk: as a general rule, the answer is yes.
02:33<phillipsjk>dondelelcaro, that's what I thought :)
02:33<dondelelcaro>edward_: in the kopt line that's commented out
02:33<edward_>hmm..
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02:34<dondelelcaro>edward_: edit that line, then rerun update grub. [You should never edit the kernel lines between end default options and end debian automagic kernels list
02:34<edward_># kopt=root=/dev/hda1 ro
02:34<edward_>great
02:34<edward_>ok tnx
02:34<dondelelcaro>edward_: man update-grub; if you want more details
02:34<jm_>thank god that shit is not present with grub 2 anymore
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02:35<dondelelcaro>phillipsjk: but if you actually tell us the problem and the symptoms, we may be able to tell you what the underlying problem actually is
02:35<dondelelcaro>(or point you to someone who can)
02:35<edward_>well... that sucks.. i had a few server I rebootd and did not came up and that was the problem.. te new kernel saw a sda and not a hda... so I edited the file and the servers came back up
02:35<daniiel>when you use adduser command, it doesn't include you in the audio group, which allows you to use sound?
02:36<dondelelcaro>daniiel: not by default, no
02:36<jm_>daniiel: only if you use it properly
02:36<daniiel>so thats my problem!
02:36<dondelelcaro>daniiel: edit /etc/adduser.conf and set it appropriately
02:36<jm_>edward_: yeah probably driver changed from using old IDE driver to libata PATA driver
02:36<dondelelcaro>(you're looking for EXTRA_GROUPS and ADD_EXTRA_GROUPS)
02:37<jm_>like I said, if permissions/group membership was a problem, alsamixer, aplay and speaker-test would not work
02:37<dondelelcaro>(which are helpfully there, but commented out)
02:37<dondelelcaro>jm_: I'm thinking that they worked as root, but not as a normal user
02:37<dondelelcaro>(since I don't see any real info in scrollback)
02:37<RIVE>dondelelcaro, if a change to UUID i grub to identify disk an partitions, is beter than use /dev/hda?? etc, etc?
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02:37<jm_>dondelelcaro: let's clarify
02:38<jm_>or not ;)
02:38<dondelelcaro>RIVE: probably better, but it shouldn't matter going forward
02:38<dondelelcaro>'course, I could be wrong, and /dev could change yet again
02:39<interbird>dondelelcaro: cool way to determine the problem; kudo's !
02:40<RIVE>Sorry for my poor english, is not my mother tongue.
02:40<dondelelcaro>RIVE: it's alright; you're understandable. [If we have problems, we'll ask for clarification.]
02:41<phillipsjk>Well, heavy use of the ISA SMC EtherEZ (smc-ultra driver) seems to make the (P166) computer unresponsive.
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02:43<dondelelcaro>heh; I'd actually be surprised if that worked at all. It's probably a case of hardware design and the fact that no one runs that hardware anymore
02:43<dondelelcaro>so it could have bit-rotted away, and no one would have ever notices
02:43<dondelelcaro>s/es/ed/
02:43<jm_>phillipsjk: what happens when it gets unresponsive?
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02:44<phillipsjk>I also have problems with my pro audio specturm (16 bit ISA sound pre pnp) .. it works fine with win98...
02:45<phillipsjk>jm_ in X the focus does'nt work with the mouse.
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02:45<jm_>phillipsjk: ohh so the box doesn't die, but just becomes slow then?
02:45<phillipsjk>yes.
02:47<jm_>yeah that's quite possible then, check if the driver has max_interrupt_work parameter
02:47<phillipsjk>I suspect IRQ contention, since I can't simply reproduce it with a large file transfer on the LAN.
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02:48<phillipsjk>Streaming audio caused preblems, IIRC.
02:48<phillipsjk>(That is low bandwidth)
02:50*phillipsjk is actually pre-occupied with something else..
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02:56<Hamish>Hi, question for any sed experts out there: How do I do the inverse of -e '/start_pattern/,/end_pattern/d'? i.e. I want to keep the info between those lines and delete everything else from the input stream. any ideas?
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02:57<jm_>use -n switch and p command
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02:57<helmut>(does someone know what caused the big kline?)
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02:58<Hamish>viola! excellent business jm_. Now to run off and check if -n is portable beyond the GNU version..
02:59<jm_>should be
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03:04<simonrvn>"voilà"
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03:10<daniiel>is there a group for networks / interfaces, my user cannot monitor /dev/etho traffic
03:11<simonrvn>there *is no* /dev/eth0
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03:11<simonrvn>(not in linux...)
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03:11<daniiel>yea, mispell
03:11<simonrvn>you don't need root to look at that stuff
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03:11<simonrvn>edit yes, but look at, no.
03:12<jm_>daniiel: to clarify, did you run alsamixer/speaker-test/aplay earlier as root or as a regular user?
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03:13<jm_>linux kernel has a special capability to monitor traffic, but you'll need more advanced stuff to enable it for user - much easier done using sudo/su
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03:16<daniiel>as root, thats why it was "half-working"=)
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03:17<KaiSVK>!ati
03:17<dpkg>To use an ATI graphics card with Debian, ask me about <fglrx>, <radeon>, and <radeonhd>.
03:17<KaiSVK>!fglrx
03:17<dpkg>i guess fglrx is "FireGL and Radeon for X", the proprietary display driver made available by ATI. To install, ask me about <fglrx one-liner>. http://wiki.debian.org/ATIProprietary, #ati @ irc.freenode.net. See also <radeon>.
03:17<KaiSVK>!fglrx one-liner
03:17<dpkg>To install fglrx, first make sure you have <contrib> and <non-free sources> in your sources.list. Then: aptitude install module-assistant fglrx-driver fglrx-control fglrx-kernel-src && m-a prepare && m-a a-i fglrx && modprobe fglrx && echo fglrx >> /etc/modules && dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
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03:17<jm_>ok that explains it then
03:18<daniiel>i've never used adduser before, never had anyone but me using the computer
03:19<daniiel>until now
03:19<KaiSVK>hi all, I have problems installing ati fglrx drivers from repositories
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03:19<KaiSVK>some dependencies problems ?
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03:20<daniiel>it's the xfce network monitor on the new account, won't see traffic on /dev/wlan0 or /dev/eth0
03:21<daniiel>works on the first account i created (non-root created during install)
03:21<daniiel>whats not working with your flgrx?
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03:22<themill>daniiel: add yourself to the netdev group
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03:31<sp>.w 1
03:31<sp>oops
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03:36<thijs>hi
03:37<thijs>!dpkg
03:37<dpkg>it has been said that dpkg is the program used by debian to install and remove packages, "man dpkg". Also ask me about <apt howto>. The main info bot in #debian is also called dpkg; ask me about <dpkgbot>.
03:37<thijs>!dpkg sqeeze
03:37<thijs>!dpkg lenny
03:37<dpkg>i guess lenny is the codename for the next Debian release, currently testing. To upgrade to lenny, ask me about <etch->lenny>. Lenny is the binoculars. Lenny will be known as version 5.0 and it will hopefully be released soon (ask me about <wwlr>). A <moving target>. See also <testing> and <lenny status>.
03:37<Ganneff>if you want to do more with the bot use /msg please
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04:05<interbird>!me
04:06<interbird>!debian
04:06<dpkg>hmm... debian is http://www.debian.org. See http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/project-history/index.en.html#contents
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04:11<sthk>entonces alguien me puede ayudar?
04:11<sthk>con mi nvidia
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04:14<yang>hello tzafrir_laptop
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04:14<jm_>!tell sthk -about es
04:15<sthk>mi nvidia no quiere instalarse
04:15<sthk>mas bien no carga el driver
04:15<sthk>y me da error cuando quiero iniciar las x
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04:15<yang>jm_: have you asked in the firm if they got any antique servers to get rid off ?
04:15<jm_>please speak english here or try the channel dpkg mentioned
04:16<jm_>yang: there are regular write offs, but the procedure is too complicated
04:16<sthk>i have a problem with the nvidia drivers
04:16<yang>ok
04:16<sthk>i cant install it
04:16<jm_>!tell sthk -about nvidia
04:16<sthk>i follow all the guides to install and doesnt want to install
04:16<jm_>what's the error?
04:17<sthk>i install with the installator, sh nv...
04:17<sthk>i had problems with the gcc but i already fix it
04:17<jm_>yang: the easiest is if they sell the stuff, but that has happened only once and never again, because it was too much work :P
04:17<jm_>no don't do that, do it the debian way
04:17<sthk>but now, it suppose that the installator installs nvidia drivers, but when i start the x doesnt up the x
04:18<yang>jm_: strange anyways, some companies do it, but probably it requires too much work as you said, and no real money.
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04:27<mikelo>!evolution
04:27<dpkg>[evolution] an Email and Personal Information Manager developed by Ximian. an Outlook clone. #evolution on irc.gimp.org
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04:28<jm_>yang: yeah, I think the issue is they are trying to be really strict and follow all the laws etc. and that amounts in too much work
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04:41<MartinVW>Hi, I'm having a very strange problem with one of our servers... there's a Windows CD on the server, and for the second time, one of the files is damaged (compared the md5sums of all files with copies from another server). When I noticed this the first time, a file called odbc32.dl_ was damaged; I copied the file from another server, and the issue was fixed. Now it isn't working again, and when comparing the files again, I now notice that a f
04:42<themill>MartinVW: IRC has a line length limit: you cut out at: "I now notice that a f"
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04:44<bastiaan>hi
04:44<bastiaan>someone experience with bind9 on debian?
04:44<bastiaan>debian etch
04:45<themill>!ask
04:45<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. when I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, or if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask (ask the whole channel!). We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer, ask later or ask debian-user@lists.debian.org
04:45<bastiaan>I have problems when I run it chrooted
04:45<bastiaan>it doesn't listen to ipv6
04:45<bastiaan>and it seems not to process notifies
04:46<bastiaan>chrooted -> -t /var/lib/named into OPTIONS in /etc/default/bind9
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04:57<ircaccount>Hi there. I'm trying to rebuild the Samba-3.0.24 source package in Debian 3.0/i386 stable with a few lines changed in the source code. The first time I run debuild -us -uc it's successful and outputs the .deb files for installation. If I then run debuild -us -uc again, it fails with QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches quilt --quiltrc /dev/null pop -a -R || test $? = 2
04:57<ircaccount>Patch security-CVE-2008-1105.patch does not remove cleanly (refresh it or enforce with -f)
04:58<ircaccount>Google shows almost nothing on this one. if I make a new directory and start over with apt-get source samba I can run it just once more, but I'm wondering if there's a command to roll it back so I can run debuild more than once after each source code change?
04:58<infotron>ircaccount: oldstable isn't supported any longer
04:58<ircaccount>Oh hang on
04:58<ircaccount>I'm on 4.0 sorry
04:59<infotron>check bugs.debian.org or use reportbug
04:59<themill>3.0 isn't even oldstable. it's oldoldstable
05:00<themill>ircaccount: why are you building it twice?
05:00<ircaccount>Okay thanks will do - by the sound of it it's not just something basic I'm missing out then and it should be okay to run debuild repeatedly after changing perhaps one line of C code between each run? (I'm new to building packages from source.)
05:00<infotron>yes, and if one concluds oldstable isn't supported any longer, then one would surmise everything before it is also no longer maintained.
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05:00<ircaccount>themill: I'm changing a couple of lines at a time and then wanting to recompile
05:01<infotron>ircaccount: well, I'd shy away from reporting a bug if you're modding the package.
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05:01<jm_>ircaccount: does it recompile OK if you don't change anything?
05:01<themill>ircaccount: building twice on etch is not guaranteed to work. if you call "debian/rules upatch" in between, does that solve the problem?
05:01<MartinVW>oh well, damn IRC :)
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05:02<MartinVW>[cont] Now it isn't working again, and when comparing the files again, I now notice that a file called lhmstscx.dl_ is damaged -
05:02<ircaccount>Oh I realise that, it's certainly not a problem with the package. I just thought (and maybe I'm wrong) that this mechanism is here to let me do exactly that - so that I can get the source for a package, change a few lines as needed, and then recompile
05:02<MartinVW>[cont] but it's mtime remains unchanged on 2008-04-14 06:52:14.000000000 +0200. The md raid is in sync, dmesg shows nothing unusual, and the memory was tested with memtest when we delivered the server. Any idea what could be going on here?
05:02<ircaccount>themill: trying now
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05:03<jm_>don't count on memtest to detect all memory errors - changing md5sum is a first sign of memory problems, but it could of course be something else too
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05:05<themill>ircaccount: you can do that, but normally we use dpkg-buildpackage not debuild and I can't recall the exact differences in what it calls. Getting things to be able to be double compiled without error is a release goal for lenny I think.
05:06<enouf>fwiw, debuild is in the devscripts pkg
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05:07<enouf>and, IINM, dpkg-buildpackage is (almost the) same as doing fakeroot debian/rules binary
05:07<ircaccount>themill: debian/rules upatch says: make: *** No rule to make target `upatch'. Stop. debuild then still gives the same error, but this time also says debuild: fatal error at line 1228:\n debian/rules clean failed
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05:07<ircaccount>themill: I see, I think I must have been reading dodgy instructions then!
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05:08<jm_>naah debuild is OK
05:09<themill>ircaccount: there are many different tools with which to build packages... everyone likes and has experience with different ones.
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05:10<themill>MartinVW: what filesystem is this on?
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05:11<MartinVW>themill: ext3
05:12<themill>MartinVW: damn, I was looking forward to blaming reiser :(
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05:13<stephen>Hi guys..
05:14<stephen>I have a cvs server running and about 77 of those cvs processes are defunct.. (zombie) any idea what could be causing them and any advice on how to go about fixing it?
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05:16<MartinVW>I'm currently running an md check, but so far (18%) there seems to be nothing wrong. mismatch_cnt is still 0.
05:16<MartinVW>themill: yeah, I don't trust reiser too :)
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05:18<jm_>stephen: it's probably a bug in the application
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05:28<ircaccount>themill: Many thanks for your help. 40 staff can now rest assured that their computer will be backed up every night thanks to that change (a Samba timeout causing BackupPC to fail)
05:28<ircaccount>All the best
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05:29<ircaccount>Would it be most appropriate to donate to SPI?
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05:30<enouf>hi jm_ - i know you know (and others here as well) a little bit about hardware, so how about a little ROM BIOS hard disk drive discussion? ;-) I've posted a pic of a PDF ( http://picpaste.com/pics/ROM-BIOS-Hard-drive-parameters.1221556925.png ) , but the gamma is all screwed up (/me stabs nvidia binary blobs)
05:30<enouf>.. but i also managed to pastebin ( http://pastebin.ca/1204121 ) the following page's info (i like 'raw' view mode, for it's fixed font) .. tell me which is better/easier to read ;-)
05:30<enouf>and i'll post either/or in the better format
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05:32<jm_>enouf: modern operating systems don't use BIOS for this
05:32<enouf>jm_: that was basically my question - i do realize we're onto INT13h ext and beyond ;-)
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05:34<enouf>jm_: but i was thinking maybe this kind of explains the diffs between a dd copy (block level) vs a cp, or rsync style copy (File System level)
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05:35<enouf>but sigh, maybe all that info has gone bye bye (deprecated) with the 16bit OSes ...
05:38<enouf>jm_: but you're correct, (now that i look at the dates and such mentioned) much of that info pertained to 286/386 and ps/2 era ibm pcs :-P
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05:43<jm_>enouf: it's still true for a modern PC, just that Linux and other OS-es don't use it
05:45<enouf>jm_: hrm, interesting
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05:47<jm_>GRUB and lilo will still use it
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05:47<FuZi0n>hello
05:47<FuZi0n>anyone awake?
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05:52<Maulkin>No
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05:53<FuZi0n>heh
05:53<FuZi0n>i just installed linux on an old pc...
05:53<FuZi0n>first time back since slackware 7.0
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06:07<tzafrir_laptop>How old is that PC?
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06:12<rowdy>hi all
06:12<rowdy>привет всем
06:13<jm_>!ru
06:13<dpkg>Russian speakers, please use (Pogalujsta, zajdite na) (Pazhaluista, zahodite na) #debian-russian @ irc.freenode.net
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06:18<stephen>jm_ you mean a bug with cvs?
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06:19<stephen>quit
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06:23<enouf>http://web.inter.nl.net/hcc/J.Steunebrink/bioslim.htm interesting read, though very DOS oriented, still ok
06:23<rowdy>поставил virtualbox ...а на него масдая...разрешение меня убило...http://s40.radikal.ru/i090/0809/ad/02f79a06cafb.jpg можно ли его как то настройть под расширение монитора ...???
06:24<Gekz_>>_>
06:24<themill>rowdy: /server irc.freenode.net ; /join #debian-russian
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07:01<MartinVW>themill: got something now; the md check is at 62%, and mismatch count is 512. I'm not sure though what this means - is that normal that there are small differences, or does this indicate the problem?
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07:01<themill>MartinVW: nfc. But it sounds suspicious.
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07:02<enouf>creeping ever so slower towards the present http://homepages.tesco.net/J.deBoynePollard/FGA/os2-disc-and-volume-size-limits.html and http://lwn.net/Articles/9042/
07:03<enouf>s/slower/slowly ;-)
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07:06<Xeross>Hey
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07:07<Xeross>i need help with exim i've set it up but it isnt working
07:07<Xeross>http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-server-73/exim-sending-not-arriving-669519/
07:08<petemc>that log doesnt tell you anything
07:09<petemc>well, doesnt tell you the real problem, just thats its not time to try again
07:09<jm_>why would it mention smart host for receiving mail?
07:09<Xeross>well thats the log after sending mail
07:09<Xeross>so the sending fails
07:10<Xeross>does it mean the smart host isnt reachable ?
07:10<jm_>but you wrote it works
07:10<Xeross>i thought it did
07:10<jm_>yeah because it's so hard to check :P
07:10<Xeross>im a newb to mail on linux
07:11<jm_>like petemc said, check your logfile when it first shows up
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07:12<Xeross>that was everything in the log at that time
07:12<jm_>then try another mail, and remember the last entries in your logs prior to sending it
07:12<jm_>try sending another mail that is
07:13<jm_>are you using debian at all?
07:13<Xeross>yep
07:14<Xeross>i wouldnt join the debian channel if i didnt use debian
07:15<Xeross>kerio mailserver was alot easier
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07:16<jm_>configuring exim for smart host is absolutely trivial, even more so in Debian
07:16<Xeross>the problem is port 25 being blocked
07:17<Xeross>and i dont know the smarthost of my isp
07:17<jm_>ask them?
07:17<jm_>that could very well by why you are having problems (port 25 blocked)
07:18<Xeross>i had kerio setup on an alternate port and using rollernet to redirect
07:18<Xeross>but cant find port option in the configuration wizard
07:20<jm_>exim would probably get it from /etc/services
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07:22<Xeross>lemme try that
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07:26<jm_>ahh one can specify a port for smtp driver, it's in the docs
07:27<Xeross>hmm
07:27<Xeross>cant find rollernets smtp redirect
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07:36<Xeross>how can i check if port 25 is blocked ?
07:37<jm_>tcptraceroute bla 25 ; telnet bla 25
07:37-!-freealan [~freealan@220-135-120-204.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: leaving]
07:37<jm_>or nc instead of telnet
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07:39<Xeross>the smtp is set to listen for mail only @ 127.0.0.1 is that correct ?
07:40<petemc>you dont expect to be receiving any mail from external sources anyway, do you?
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07:40<Xeross>no
07:40<petemc>then thats fine
07:40<Xeross>so it doesnt affect me trying to connect through telnet ?
07:40<petemc>no
07:41<Xeross>then its blocked
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07:42<petemc>you should focus your efforts on finding out the details of your isps smtp server
07:42<Xeross>smtp.tiscali.nl and smtp.telfort.nl
07:42<Xeross>both dont work as smarthost
07:43<petemc>you're isp is casema.nl ?
07:43<jm_>Xeross: where did tou get them from?
07:43<Xeross>uhm my other house uses telfort
07:43<Xeross>thats where the server is located
07:44<Xeross>for both of them i get something similiar to T=remote_smtp_smarthost defer (-53): retry time not reached for any host
07:44<petemc>there will be a previous log entry that tells you the real problem
07:44<petemc>as you've been told already
07:46<Xeross>log is /var/log/exim4/mainlog right ?
07:46<petemc>yes
07:47<Xeross>ok ima try again
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07:47<petemc>use exigrep
07:47<Xeross>?
07:47<Xeross>sending mail is done by doing sendmail <EMAIL> right ?
07:48<petemc>not generally, no
07:48<Xeross>then what is the command for it ?
07:48<petemc>if you want to send mail via the command line, you can use echo text| mail foo@bar
07:49<jm_>yeah online docs say telnet smtp.telfort.nl 25 to debug it, I am amazed at how good my dutch is :P
07:49<Xeross>2008-09-16 13:49:22 1KfZ3a-0004Hy-1C <= root@lecowow.com U=root P=local S=342
07:49<Xeross>2008-09-16 13:49:22 1KfZ3a-0004Hy-1C == xeross.tzx@gmail.com R=smarthost T=remote_smtp_smarthost defer (-53): retry time not reached for any host
07:49<Xeross>al it sais
07:50<petemc>use exigrep
07:50<petemc>and check mainlog.1 etc
07:50<jm_>yeah grep them all
07:50-!-Patricio [~Patrick@68-118-93-170.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #debian
07:50<Xeross>how does exigrep work
07:50<jm_>try man exigrep
07:51-!-imu [~imu@host78-72-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
07:51<Xeross>then what pattern should it search for
07:51<petemc>1KfZ3a-0004Hy-1C
07:51<enouf>wow, a specific exim made grep tool :-P
07:52<Patricio>hey guys --- I am missing a plugin to listen to Sirius Sat Radio ---- plugin is x-oleobject ----- I am running 2.6.22 --- does anyone have Sirius Sat Radio and listen to it online?
07:52*enouf is akin to John McCain when it comes to computers O_o
07:53<enouf>Patricio: ole sounds very microsoftish
07:53<enouf>object linking and embedding
07:54-!-oxmoz [~oxmoz@mut38-4-82-233-117-144.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian
07:54<Patricio>enouf --- is what i am afraid of.......I can listen in Winderz with no problem --- but wanting to solve issue within Debian --- think u can assist? or anyone?
07:54<Xeross>mainlog.1 returns nothing
07:54<enouf>!find oleobject
07:54<Xeross>aand .2 .3 .4 are .gz
07:54<enouf>Patricio: maybe you need WINE and stuff?
07:54<petemc>Xeross: what command, exactly, did you use?
07:54<petemc>Xeross: exigrep can handle gzipped files
07:55<Patricio>enouf: not sure how WINE can help.......plays through the browser
07:55<Xeross>exigrep 1KfZ3a-0004Hy-1C /var/log/exim4/mainlog4.gz
07:55<dpkg>Debian Search of 'oleobject' (1 of 2): (/usr/lib/lazarus/components/lazreport/images/bitmaps/tfroleobject.bmp) in devel/lazarus-src.
07:55<Xeross>wait
07:55<Xeross>with a dot
07:55<Xeross>between the mainlog and the 4
07:55-!-e [e@traktorn.vry.sgsnet.se] has joined #debian
07:55<petemc>keep looking, that message originated somewhere
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07:56<enouf>Patricio: well, ever hear of mplayer, xmms2 plugins? i have no idea - and apt-file is only showing me 'openoffice.org-common' containing stuff like usr/lib/openoffice/share/config/soffice.cfg/modules/sglobal/toolbar/oleobjectbar.xml
07:56-!-atperez [~atperez@189.163.46.198] has joined #debian
07:56<Xeross>scanned all the exim4 logs
07:56<enouf>other than what dpkg just showed
07:56<Xeross>+++ 1KfZ3a-0004Hy-1C not completed +++
07:56<Xeross>2008-09-16 13:49:22 1KfZ3a-0004Hy-1C <= root@lecowow.com U=root P=local S=342
07:56<Xeross>2008-09-16 13:49:22 1KfZ3a-0004Hy-1C == xeross.tzx@gmail.com R=smarthost T=remote_smtp_smarthost defer (-53): retry time not reached for any host
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07:56<Xeross>all it returns
07:56<petemc>lies
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07:56<Patricio>enouf: hhhmmmm
07:56<Xeross>what does it do if i dont specify a file ?
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07:57<petemc>wait for you to do so
07:57<enouf>Patricio: and all i know is, when one wants to use microsoft software on Linux, one can use WINE, i guess - i never used it
07:58<jm_>Xeross: try zgrep 1KfZ3a-0004Hy-1C /var/log/exim4/*
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07:58<enouf>Patricio: x-oleobject seems like a mime type as well such like; application/x-oleobject or something
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07:58<enouf>mime/file magic/ whatever
07:59<Patricio>enouf: thats what it is saying; application/x-oleobject
07:59<enouf>Patricio: google that
07:59<enouf>and add linux - see what comes up
07:59<Patricio>enouf: I did
07:59<Patricio>enouf: let me check again
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08:04<Xeross>exigrep without a file just does nothing
08:04<petemc>and what>?
08:05<Xeross>?
08:06<petemc>the syntax for exigrep is 'exigrep pattern logfile'
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08:06<petemc>why does it surprise that without specifying a logfile it doesnt do anything?
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08:12<Patricio>enouf: nothing
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08:12<enouf>Patricio: sorry, i don't know - try ##linux maybe
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08:13<enouf>Patricio: oh, on freenode.net
08:13<Patricio>thanx
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08:13<enouf>Patricio: there's also a #debian there as well - but i hope ... oh well, bye bye
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08:52<mikelo>any mapi protocol support?
08:52<Gekz>random.
08:52<mikelo>!mapi
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09:09<candido>Hi, i can not connected to net by modem with pppd daemon. Here is the log of connection and the net status http://paste.debian.net/17369/
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09:09<jm_>candido: that looks to be working
09:10<jm_>candido: your problem is most likely default route being set before pppd can set its own
09:10<mikelo>is the evolution mapi plugin available for debian?
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09:10<oxmoz>hello, anyone installed Debian on a Dell Latitude E6X00 ?
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09:12<candido>jm_: so ... the default route has eth0 interface... what must i do?
09:12<jm_>candido: do you need it when ppp is not active?
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09:12<candido>jm_ : no
09:13<candido>jm_ : i need down the eth0 first?
09:13<amphi>!tekk oxmoz -about laptop
09:13<amphi>!tell oxmoz -about laptop
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09:15<Administrador>olá bom dia
09:15<mikelo>is libmapi coming out as a debian package anytime soon?
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09:17<jm_>candido: no, how is eth0 configured?
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09:19<candido>jm_ : i see that the resolv.conf has the DNS changed. I think that it is not possible 2 simultaneous interfaces , modem + lan or modem + wlan
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09:25<candido>jm_ eth0 is with dhcp
09:26<jm_>candido: ahh then you'd need to configure dhcp server to not set it or specify that client overrides it, or you can use ppp's pre-up script to remove it
09:27<candido>jm_ gnome network manager has changed my manual modem dns adresses with the eth0 dns adresses
09:27<jm_>candido: yeah these automated tools can be a pain :)
09:28<candido>jm_: so, the host can only connected with ONE ip server?
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09:29<jm_>candido: no, sorry I have to run now - I'm sure there's someone else here who can explain it ;)
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09:29<candido>jm_ i cant configured the server, i have not accesed to it
09:30<candido>jm_thanks
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10:03<variable>what package will provide my a console version of mysql database manager?
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10:07<erKURITA>variable uhm
10:07<erKURITA>mysql-client ?
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10:08<variable>well when i can write in console mysql -u user -p pass
10:08<variable>i have installed xampp
10:08<erKURITA>mysql-client is the package name
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10:09<variable>ok i'll try
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10:16<sebastian>#ubuntu-de
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10:17<sebastian>ups sry
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10:46<rdeus>hi everbody
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10:55<mikelo>is openchange available in lenny?
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10:55<jackyf>mikelo: go to packages.debian.org and view yourself
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11:09<eric`>heelo
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11:11<jackyf>eric`: hi
11:11<eric`>hello
11:11<eric`>jackyf
11:12<eric`>wow
11:12<eric`>so many bot here
11:12<jackyf>eric`: no so many, many inactive people
11:12<eric`>ah i see
11:12<eric`>that it is a psybnc all user
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11:12<eric`>oh chaters here
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11:29<oblong>Hello, all, I have a mystery problem - new debian etch install comes up with 'Invalid PBLK length [5]'
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11:57*nEwdie1 got to go guys cya later :)
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12:02<nodar>join #ubuntu-fr
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12:05<daniiel>!apm
12:05<dpkg>apm is probably Advanced Power Management, a long-obsolete standard that allowed the BIOS to handle power management on PC-compatibles. but ACPI is better (somewhat). See also <swsusp>
12:07<daniiel>debian (i think/heard) removed apm support from the kernel, does acpi now do apm support? my old lapotp is of the apm type.
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12:09<snogglethorpe>daniiel: it worked last time I tried it with a self-compiled kernel, but didn't seem to with a stock debian kernel
12:09<snogglethorpe>daniiel: so it may just be a configurationi thing
12:10<snogglethorpe>that was 2.6.25 i think
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12:10<snogglethorpe>[by "worked" i mean, I got things like automatic power off etc on my apm machine]
12:11<daniiel>i have been working on configuring a kernel for my machine, using debian-source-2.6.26, and under power management in menuconfig, there is no apm options
12:11<snogglethorpe>daniiel: i dunno, i think you need to first select the correct chipset?
12:11<daniiel>which seems strange, like the should be at least <depreciated>
12:12<qq->daniel: !apm said to use ACPI instead
12:12<daniiel>said acpi is better (somewhat) .. =)
12:13<snogglethorpe>qq-: dunno what that's about, if the machine doesn't support it...
12:13<enouf>daniiel: just a fwiw, an object depreciates in value, an item get's deprecated (no longer of use)
12:13-!-Lethalman [~lethal@host174-16-dynamic.46-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
12:13<enouf>daniiel: what year was you laptop made?
12:14<daniiel>err..03/03
12:14-!-stevecotton [~stevecott@cpc3-hitc1-0-0-cust983.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:14<daniiel>early 2003
12:14<enouf>daniiel: that should use ACPI
12:14<enouf>daniiel: APM is before 2000
12:15<enouf>generally
12:16<enouf>daniiel: my old 1999ish pentiumII desktop is using acpi ;-)
12:16<daniiel>=)
12:17<daniiel>and it survivied y2k, even.
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12:20<ezguy>hi, where do i go to setup xfce4 to minimize an app window to a desktop icon?
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12:20<daniiel>i'll try acpi, but i just noticed if you select "suspend to ram and standy" it opens the apm menu
12:21<qq->to install or boot, type into the grub boot prompt acpi=off , or acpi=force, for apm try to use apm=off
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12:22<enouf>qq-: that would only work on most properly configured kernels ;-)
12:23<qq->daniel: look at cheatcodes on google
12:23<qq->enouf: sure
12:24-!-Gzmo [~theGzmo@xdsl-87-78-69-59.netcologne.de] has joined #debian
12:24<enouf>or since he has the source, see /Documentation/kernel-parameters.txt ;-)
12:25-!-Gzmo [~theGzmo@xdsl-87-78-69-59.netcologne.de] has quit []
12:25<qq->enouf: but are some laptop who need a bir "help"
12:25<qq->a bit*
12:25-!-buko [~ohay@200.162.215.218.static-user.ajato.com.br] has joined #debian
12:25<buko>just a quick question, what happened to the non-US packages?
12:26<qq->no more needs
12:26<daniiel>ezguy: xfce settings manager > desktop > behaviour tab > dekstop icons menu
12:26<buko>are they listed on another category or simply removed?
12:26-!-yvesC [~yves@zenobi.ycombe.net] has joined #debian
12:26<enouf>buko: mainly we use dmm
12:26<enouf>it's gone
12:26<qq->buko: only for old release
12:26<daniiel>ezguy: select "minimized desktop icons"
12:27<buko>dmm = debian-multimedia?
12:27<enouf>yep
12:27<buko>oh, ok then
12:27<buko>thanks
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12:28<enouf>!nickometer __-__-__
12:28<dpkg>'__-__-__' is 99.9814% lame, enouf
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12:29<s_i_m>!nickometer s_i_m
12:29<dpkg>'s_i_m' is 26.000% lame, s_i_m
12:29<s_i_m>heh =)
12:29<qq->nickometer qq-
12:29<daniiel>my nick is 0% lame, thanks mom!
12:30<qq->!nickometer qq-
12:30<dpkg>'qq-' is 14.000% lame, qq-
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12:30<cogwheel>wowee. one day, one new feature found in dpkg.
12:30<chealer>!tell buko about non-us
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12:31<enouf>haha @ " for the few remaining packages, see ..."
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12:33<daniiel>how would i find out my southbridge type?
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12:34<buko>just another thing, I installed etch on a P3 laptop and on an AthlonXP (2500) desktop. On the laptop it installed the 686 kernel, but on the desktop (which is more powerfull) it installed the 486 kernel...
12:34<buko>is there any logical reason for this?
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12:39<jackyf>buko: you are to install 686 kernel from repository
12:39<jackyf>*are free
12:39<enouf>buko: there exists a -k7 kernel in etch especially for your Athlon
12:39<enouf>buko: the -686 will work, and -k7 versions are gone after etch
12:40<enouf>!k7
12:40<dpkg>k7 is, like, the generic model name for the series of AMD i386-compatible processors which begins with the "Athlon" and also includes the "Duron", "Thunderbird", "Sempron" and "Athlon XP" processors. It does not include the AMD64, X2, FX, Opteron (k8) family or the older K5 or K6 chips. Just use a 686 kernel in unstable, k7 kernels are out. see <k7 dropped>
12:41<buko>so I should just do "aptitude install linux-image-686" ?
12:41<enouf>yuo can - do apt-get update ; apt-cache show linux-image-*
12:42<enouf>it would be "linux-image-2.6-686" which is a Meta package
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12:42<enouf>!info linux-image-2.6-686 etch
12:42<dpkg>linux-image-2.6-686: (Linux kernel 2.6 image on PPro/Celeron/PII/PIII/P4), section admin, is optional. Version: 2.6.18+6etch3 (etch), Packaged size: 2 kB, Installed size: 32 kB
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12:43<enouf>!info linux-image-2.6-18-k7 etch
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12:43<ezguy>thanks daniiel
12:43<enouf>well, i guessed the wrong name ;-)
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12:44<buko>ok, but once I get the pkg name right I can simply install it with apt/aptitude , nothing special?
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12:44<enouf>http://packages.debian.org/etch/linux-image-2.6-k7
12:44<enouf>buko: correct
12:45<enouf>!info linux-image-2.6-k7
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12:45<dpkg>linux-image-2.6-k7: (Linux 2.6 image on AMD K7 - transition package), section admin, is optional. Version: 2.6.26+16 (sid), Packaged size: 2 kB, Installed size: 8 kB
12:45<enouf>darnnit, forgot the etch part, but that should be all she returns
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12:45<enouf>ooo O_O
12:46<enouf>the -k7 is making a Comeback \o/
12:46<enouf>in Sid though :-) not for Lenny AFAIK
12:46<buko>does the k7 run any faster than the 686 ?
12:46*cogwheel watches as the k7 comes back and trips on the threshold.
12:46<cogwheel>*wham!*
12:47<enouf>buko: no, i'd say not noticeable - which is why it was dropped - so similar to -686 - it's just a bit more tuned for AMD athlons
12:47<enouf>!info linux-image-2.6-k7 etch
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12:47<dpkg>linux-image-2.6-k7: (Linux kernel 2.6 image on AMD K7), section admin, is optional. Version: 2.6.18+6etch3 (etch), Packaged size: 2 kB, Installed size: 32 kB
12:48<enouf>last try ;-)
12:48<cogwheel>!info linux-image-2.6-k7 lenny
12:48<enouf>!tell buko -about k7 dropped
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12:48<dpkg>linux-image-2.6-k7: (Linux 2.6 image on AMD K7 - transition package), section admin, is optional. Version: 2.6.26+16 (lenny), Packaged size: 2 kB, Installed size: 8 kB
12:48<cogwheel>very fun.
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12:49<enouf>WTF? well that's from sid - not sure if it'll make it into Lenny Stable
12:49<enouf>Lenny is frozen
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12:50<chealer>buko: did you use the same image to install?
12:51*enouf had presumed as such
12:51<buko>I burned a CD from the Debian KDE install ISO
12:51<chealer>enouf: that's from lenny
12:51<enouf>chealer: what/which is?
12:52<enouf>chealer: --> ?? Debian KDE install ISO
12:52<chealer>enouf: linux-image-2.6-k7 2.6.26+16 (though it's also in sid)
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12:53<enouf>chealer: it's in Lenny as it trickled down from sid, sure - but will it make it into the "freeze/stable release" ?
12:53<buko>I used the same CD on both computers, but for some reason it put a 486 kernel for the AthlonXP
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12:53<chealer>buko: the CD probably has the 486 and 686 images only. when d-i saw that k7 was optimal for the PC, it must have fallen back to 486. I don't know if falling back to 686 would have been more optimal.
12:53<enouf>indeed
12:53<chealer>enouf: it's already frozen
12:53<enouf>falling back to -486 is the safe choice
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12:54<enouf>chealer: right, so the -k7 variant won't be in Lenny when it's released as Stable
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12:55<enouf>or would it then not show as an available pkg? i'm all confused
12:55<enouf>freeze,, etchndozen, bakerspride
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13:01<chealer>enouf: indeed. k7 was remove with linux-2.6 2.6.23-1 and won'T come back unless there's new input in #454777. the k7 variant is already not in lenny. it's only in etch (and sarge)
13:01<chealer>s/remove/removed/
13:02<enouf>chealer: wow - i just asked in d-kernel, and i seem to have misunderstood what i was told
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13:03<enouf>chealer: so, p.d.o for "testing" lists (some) pkgs that will NOT make it into Lenny as Stable release? If so - there must be a "locked" pkg list somewhere?
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13:05<enouf>chealer: i realize the maintainers/devs are scrambling like heck to get the latest versions in, and fix bugs, and .. at some point there will be absolutely no more entries allowed - have we already crossed that threshold? i suck so bad sometimes, i can't keep up with it all - i know, i should /join or read a mailing list (d-d-a, etc)
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13:12<Bladesman>Hello. My ISP recently switched over to gmail. Is anyone using getmail or fetchmail to access imap.gmail.com and have any pointers? I'm blind and don't have the tools to access mail thru the web.
13:13<cogwheel>you don't have a web browser installed?
13:13<Bladesman>Have all kinds of them installed. I just can't see what they say.
13:13<enouf>Bladesman: you don't use things like Festival?
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13:14<Bladesman>I dunno what the problem is. I just can't do webmail.
13:14<enouf>Bladesman: TTS, Text To Speech applications?
13:14<chealer>enouf: some, but few. there is no list. packages will be removed according to the needs, for example buggyness. new RC bugs or existing RC bugs that aren't fixed in time will warrant removal.
13:15<Bladesman>Managed to get getmail to download mail from one account, but it doesn't delete the mail afterwords, so I keep downloading the same mail all the time.
13:15<chealer>enouf: there is no such point, except very close to the release (surely less than a week). we're very far from there.
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13:17<enouf>chealer: aye , ok, that's how i recall the build up to Etch release - thanks - note though; the d-kernel people appear to be saying it'll be there .. but it's ok - it'll all work out ;-)
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13:19*Bladesman waves...
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13:19<enouf>Bladesman: i'm sorry - but probably all i can do is maybe point you to some channels like #speakup maybe?
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13:20<enouf>bah, and it's on @freenode, iirc too
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13:23<enouf>and ... memoserv isn't available here ..
13:24<chealer>enouf: they appear to be saying the k7 variant will be in lenny?
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13:27<enouf>chealer: yes, AFAICT - but please note, i could very well be misunderstanding
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13:28<enouf>chealer: let me send you a pastebin (in pm) of what was discussed - ok?
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13:34<enouf>chealer: hah.. just noticed, that ones in testing and sid depend on -686, as it's just a dummy pkg - weird how dpkgbot output fooled me
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13:40<chuy_max>hey guys, is it possible to put an entire directory into an ftp server using ftp console client, instead of putting files one by one?
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13:40<chealer>enouf: right
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13:44<rjent>Greetings,
13:45<rjent>anyone using the atom from intel?
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13:48<Flakk>Hey people. I am re-installing the debian mainly because my partition structure became a mess. I want to delete all partitions and create one new empty one, format it and then install etch on it. Question: should I format it to ext2 or to ext3? ( would love also to know what is the difference between these two)
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13:50<noflash>Flakk, ext3 and google that question ;)
13:50<blarson>Flakk: ext3 is ext2 with journaling.
13:50<maxb>Or wikipedia :-)
13:50<Flakk>ok thx )
13:50<noflash>!maxb++
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13:54<Flakk>sorry. still not entirely done. I deleted all the things. Have now an unallocated space. I am creatinf\g a new partition/, where will install etch. should it be Primary or Extended? (and then I will have the choice between ext 2 and 3)
13:55<enouf>Primary is always better , but depends how your disk is layed out prior
13:55<Flakk>the point is that I also have an XP partition which I will not touch
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13:58<enouf>one more word about partitions, i you go with standard msdos labeling (4 Primary only - or 3 +1 Ext'd) always make the Ext'd one as hda4/sda4 meaning lastly, after all 3 Primaries are made - then make the Ext'd to encompass rest of disk (wherein you create your logicals - however many you like)
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13:59<enouf>Flakk: if you must use more than 4 partitions - always make the 3 primaries 1st, then make hda4/sda4 as ext'd (to take up rest of disk space) and create the logicals hda5+ .. and only put crap in there you can wipe if you need to
14:00<enouf>Flakk: otherwise, if you need/want less than 4, make all primary
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14:00<enouf>er 4 or less, with never a need for a 5th
14:00<Flakk>enouf: thanx - but - i do not understand much of you say due to the lack of knowledge.
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14:01<Flakk>I do not know how to label partitions, and actually even can not find out which labels I have now on them - gparted does not say it
14:01<enouf>Flakk: just make a new big Primary ;-)
14:01<Flakk>I will just tell you what I have.
14:01<Flakk>I have /dev/hda1 = XP ntfs
14:01<enouf>you do not need to Label partitions Flakk
14:01<Flakk>and then an unallocated space about 37 gig (it is a notebook)
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14:02<Flakk>so do I get it right that I format the unallocated one as Primary ext3 and then install etch in it?
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14:03<enouf>and, so, make hda2 '/' (36G) , and hda3 swap (1G) - both primary - but let me ask - how much RAM, and how much is the most it can take?
14:04<Flakk>enouf: but I thought that etch installer will take care of swap itself, is not it true?
14:04<enouf>now, actually, it's better to make the hda2 the swap - (just invert the order) because it's closer to the outer part of the disk (faster)
14:05<enouf>Flakk: honestly, i forget - if it says so - trust that it'll leave room for it - see the installation guide ;-)
14:05<Flakk>RAM - actually I do not know ) let me try to find out
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14:05<enouf>Flakk: your swap will be used for s2ram/s2disk/standby/suspend/hibernate
14:06<arc>in ubuntu repositories how do I find clamav and download and then install?
14:06<enouf>Flakk: so you want to make sure it's big enough - but not too big, not huge
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14:07<Flakk>enouf- yes i understand. I guess I will try to install etch, and follow his advice; if it does not give any ) --- well i will come back ))
14:07<enouf>Flakk: btw, e2label will create labels for ext2/3 partitions you can do that anytime - or pass an option to mkfs.ext3 - man mke2fs ; man mkfs.ext3
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14:08<Flakk>btw - gparted asks also the LABEL for the new partition. OH i get it now you say "hda2" or even hda3 if i want to gain some speed
14:09<Flakk>right?
14:09<enouf>Flakk: hda1 is the fastest as it's nearest the outer edge
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14:09<enouf>Flakk: if you want set a LABELname or - leave it blank
14:10<enouf>as i said, you can change that anytime - easily using e2label
14:10<Flakk>but there is XP in hda1 and I am afraid to touch it ))
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14:10<MadHag>Hi is this a debian issue? http://pastebin.com/m112cbd0a
14:10<enouf>Flakk: i'm mentioning hda1 only to make a point - an example
14:10<Flakk>wait 1 sec - do you mean that when it asks for the "label" for the new partition, it has nothing to do with "hda2" ?
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14:11<Flakk>so who will choose the name "hda2"?
14:11<enouf>Flakk: the higher the partition number , the slower they are - the closer to the spindle they are
14:11<sk8_dita>oi tem alguem ai
14:11<Flakk>ok but did i get it right that hda2 IS the label of a partition
14:11<enouf>Flakk: that;s a linux kernel device convention
14:11<enouf>no
14:11<Flakk>ok
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14:12<sk8_dita>ok
14:12<Flakk>so when gparted asks me for the label of a new partition, i just leave it blank
14:12<Flakk>right?
14:12<enouf>you can sure
14:12<Flakk>i do not put "hda2"
14:12<enouf>or you would put MyLinuxEtch ;-)
14:12<Flakk>ok )))
14:12<enouf>see?
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14:12<Flakk>got it, this is just a nick
14:12<sk8_dita>my egees
14:13<enouf>yes - do not use any /dev/ or anything like that
14:13<Flakk>ok - proceeding ...
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14:13<sk8_dita>not rive.......................................................ok
14:14<enouf>sk8_dita: which language? espanol? portuguese? otro?
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14:15<Flakk>enouf - OH gparted did it itself. now I have /dev/hda2 = 37 gig ext3 partition
14:15<sk8_dita>portugês
14:15<enouf>Flakk: gparted is not the debian installer ;-)
14:15<enouf>!br
14:15<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
14:15<enouf>sk8_dita: esta bien?
14:15<Flakk>enouf_ i know )
14:16<Flakk>now i will try to install etch in /dev/hd2, is it OK?
14:16<sk8_dita>como se chama
14:16<enouf>sk8_dita: also -> irc.freenode.net #debian.br
14:16-!-Cyorxamp [~Cyorxamp@212.57.229.111] has joined #debian
14:17<enouf>sk8_dita: muito obrigado ;0
14:17<PetaWindows>enouf: does that mean "Thank you so much"?
14:17<sk8_dita> vc fala portugues
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14:17<enouf>sk8_dita: como? do "/join #debian-br" in your irc client
14:17<enouf>PetaWindows: pretty much yes ;-)
14:17<PetaWindows>haha
14:18<enouf>PetaWindows: it's the only words i know in portuguese ;-P
14:18<MadHag>porfa vor :)
14:18<PetaWindows>l0l. What's your native lang?
14:18<chealer>MadHag: if you're asking whether the issue is specific to Debian, then no
14:18<MadHag>ok, must be a directadmin thing
14:19<sk8_dita>eu nao entendo sua lingua
14:19<PetaWindows>sk8_dita: portugal o brasil?
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14:20<PetaWindows>enouf: you look like you speak spanish as your first language
14:20<PetaWindows>xD
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14:20-!-k1lumin4t1 [sortadi@190.200.11.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:20<enouf>PetaWindows: i've been told i resemble a latin lover .. close enough ? :-P
14:20<MadHag>btw, came across a cool admin panel today SysCP free as well looks quite good
14:21-!-donfede [~fgrau@host205.csa.com] has joined #debian
14:21<enouf>PetaWindows: i can actually speak spanish well enough to communicate to some .. but i can't write it for crap
14:21<PetaWindows>wow
14:21<chealer>enouf: are you sure that hard disk speed depends significantly on the distance to the center?
14:21<MadHag>I can cut n paste from google translater quite good these days
14:22-!-mikail [~Mika@e177207143.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #debian
14:22<enouf>MadHag: there's something on the wiki - seen it? http://wiki.debian.org/CipUX/CAT
14:22<MadHag>thanks
14:22<sk8_dita>eu sol boliviano
14:23<enouf>chealer: sure, with newer HDDs (199x ish) and ZBA, there's more data packed into longer tracks, etc etc .. let me get something
14:23<enouf>sorry, ZBR*
14:23<sk8_dita>enouf onde estas
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14:24<enouf>chealer: "One interesting side effect of this design is that the raw data transfer rate (sometimes called the media transfer rate) of the disk when reading the outside cylinders is much higher than when reading the inside ones. " http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/geom/tracks_ZBR.htm
14:24<MadHag>https://www.syscp.org/ that looks a bit more developed
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14:25<sk8_dita>sdasddsfcgsdgmsdovanvcgfmfbv gsjfdus gdfjh
14:26<enouf>sk8_dita: please stop that .. thank you
14:26<chealer>enouf: aha, interesting. "newer" eh? :) thanks
14:26<sk8_dita>portugal
14:26<enouf>chealer: np ;-)
14:26<PetaWindows>sk8_dita: usa ou canal debian portugues
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14:27<sk8_dita>sim
14:27<sk8_dita>e vc
14:27<Flakk>enouf: actually I was wrong. The deb installer does not want to creat partitions. This basically means I should return to gparted
14:27<sk8_dita>enouf onde estava
14:28<Flakk>so what is your advice? I have now a big primary ext3 = 37 gig
14:28<Flakk>should I create the root+swap?
14:29<enouf>Flakk: just let the installer shrink it .. or, that .. or ...
14:29-!-stevecotton [~stevecott@cpc3-hitc1-0-0-cust983.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #debian
14:29<Flakk>err - installer does ot suggest this
14:29<Flakk>not
14:29-!-Virginia [~leomadson@201.59.145.66] has joined #debian
14:30<enouf>Flakk: you tell it - or, you could just make and use a swapfile , although for suspend, that might require a bit of hoops to use properly
14:30<Flakk>so for 37 gig on the total i should have 700 M swap and 6 gig root, right?
14:30<Virginia>oli em alguem aili
14:30<enouf>Virginia: you are the same person - we see your IP ;-)
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14:31<enouf>Flakk: you can tell it to make it ALL '/'
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14:31<Flakk>all root?? and then?
14:32<enouf>Flakk: with 6G / means you'll be making more partitions, for /home, /boot. whatever - do not bother
14:32<Flakk>ok - proceeding - thx!
14:32<enouf>Flakk: look, go back into gparted and set it up the way we talked about ;-)
14:33<Flakk>yes that is what i am gong to do
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14:33<enouf>ok then ;-)
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14:46<KaiSVK>hi all
14:47<KaiSVK>doeas anyone know what is a file with .vgi extension ???
14:48<dondelelcaro>KaiSVK: file may
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14:49<KaiSVK>dondelelcaro: I don;t think so ... it is in my windows machine :/
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14:51<rjent>What is best way to get flashplugin-nonfree on lenny?
14:51-!-ant- [~anton@78-86-223-59.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:51<MadHag>is there a torrent for lenny?
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14:52<MadHag>!lenny
14:52<dpkg>hmm... lenny is the codename for the next Debian release, currently testing. To upgrade to lenny, ask me about <etch->lenny>. Lenny is the binoculars. Lenny will be known as version 5.0 and it will hopefully be released soon (ask me about <wwlr>). A <moving target>. See also <testing> and <lenny status>.
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14:55<dondelelcaro>KaiSVK: then ask google; we have nothing to do with windows machines.
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14:56<RTIBobV>Where is the "correct" place to change the path so that it is available to all users?
14:57<dondelelcaro>RTIBobV: what do you want to add?
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14:57<dondelelcaro>(in general, you shouldn't need to change PATH; however, in cases where you do, you do it in /etc/profile )
14:58<stevecotton>MadHag: http://www.debian.org/CD/torrent-cd/ has Lenny Beta2 available (both CD and DVD). See also jigdo for building part of the cd from your apt-cache.
14:58<stevecotton>!jigdo
14:58<dpkg>hmm... jigdo is *the* method for downloading CD/DVD images of Debian. at http://www.debian.org/CD/jigdo-cd/ or http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Debian-Jigdo/index.html
14:58<stevecotton>!debtorrent
14:58<dpkg>it has been said that debtorrent is a way of distributing .deb packages using BitTorrent. See http://wiki.debian.org/DebTorrent for details
14:58<RTIBobV>I have an app that I installed and I need to set some env as well as path. For example export HALCONARCH=x86-linux2.4-gcc33, export HALCONROOT=/opt/halcon, export PATH=${PATH}:${HALCONROOT}/bin/${HALCONARCH}:\
14:58<RTIBobV>${HALCONROOT}/FLEXlm/${HALCONARCH}, export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=${LD_LIBRARY_PATH}:${HALCONROOT}/lib/${HALCONARCH}
14:59<MadHag>thanks, I only need the first cd for install dont I
14:59<dondelelcaro>RTIBobV: so what you do is you write a wrapper script that gets shoved into /usr/bin or /usrlocal/bin which sets all that crap and then actually calls the program
14:59<MadHag>I can get what I want from the net afterwards
15:00<dondelelcaro>RTIBobV: though considering the env variables that are being set, that program reeks of bad design
15:00<stevecotton>Is it worth me writing this up properly (jidgo then bittorrent)? http://lists.debian.org/debian-cd/2008/09/msg00001.html
15:01<stevecotton>yes, the first is the only one you need. Or even the netinst CD (smaller still).
15:01<RTIBobV>unfortunately i am not in control of the design. It is an industrial imaging pkg out of germany
15:01<dondelelcaro>RTIBobV: oh, you may not be... but it doesn't bode well for the underlying code quality.
15:01<RTIBobV>so if i put the script into /usr/bin, what makes it run?
15:02<dondelelcaro>RTIBobV: a user calling whatever command the actual app is named with
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15:02<RTIBobV>the app is named hdevelop, so do I create an hdevelop.sh?
15:03<blarson>MadHag: yes
15:03<stevecotton>call the script something else, or move the app. The relationship between script name and app name doesn't matter.
15:03<MadHag>luvly jubbly
15:04<RTIBobV>ok, im still confused as to when the script will be run. Do i need to explicitely execute it?
15:04<stevecotton>(unless you're trying fancy trickery involving script names)
15:04<stevecotton>Yes - run the script instead of your program, in the script run the program itself.
15:05<MadHag>29 cd's, do people download all that and burn it :)
15:05<RTIBobV>ok understood
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15:05<stevecotton>AMD64 is 31 cds
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15:05<MadHag>lol
15:06<MadHag>on dialup haha
15:06<MadHag>bad md5 on all, torture :)
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15:09<daniel1>hi
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15:09<nubbun>I had seen a Qt based interface that looked like synaptic, but haven't seen it lately. does it continue to exist and what is it called?
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15:11<nubbun>Can lenny packages installed via FTP not be authenticated? apt-get warns me so.
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15:12<daniel1>Could anyone help please? There is an English expression I cannot translate. Please, send me a pm if someone has patience.
15:13<MadHag>daniel1, what are you up to?
15:13-!-Inv_ [~alinh@89.35.26.22.sta.lgnet.ro] has joined #debian
15:13<MadHag>lenny torrent coming down nice
15:13<daniel1>I try to figure out how to translate _actual deployment_.
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15:14<MadHag>to do
15:15<nubbun>daniel: to what language?
15:15<daniel1>Hungarian :)
15:15-!-cassiano [~cassiano@189.63.161.144] has joined #debian
15:15<MadHag>google translate has hungarian
15:15*nubbun chuckles
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15:15<MadHag>:)
15:16<daniel1>I do not see it
15:16<MadHag>hangon
15:16<nubbun>I know a hungarian, but he doesn't run debian
15:16-!-maxman [~chatzilla@84-74-89-182.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #debian
15:16<nubbun>--I presume
15:17<MadHag>http://www.google.com/intl/hu/
15:17<daniel1>I know that but there is no hit on Hungarian pages
15:18<MadHag>your right though, looks like they have not sorted the hungarian bit yet for the translator
15:18<daniel1>this is the sentence: Windows takes care of the actual deployment to client computers...
15:18<daniel1>:S
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15:18<daniel1>I am a bit scared now :)
15:20<daniel1>German is also fine
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15:22<daniel1>nobody?
15:22<MadHag>bavarian any good to you?
15:23<daniel1>bavarian?
15:23<MadHag>joking
15:23<MadHag>is this the debian channel?
15:24<daniel1>I am a debian user but have to translate this
15:24-!-meandtheshell1 [~sa@d83-187-190-52.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
15:24<MadHag>just kidding man, its been a long day
15:24<daniel1>but you can call me Bill
15:24<daniel1>:)
15:26<MadHag>calling it a day, bye
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15:27<daniel1>nobody can explain what actual deployment means?
15:28<Pryon>Can you use it in context? What is the complete sentence?
15:28-!-Shimei|Portable [Shimei|Foo@fc02-06-08-13-5.srfc01.resnet.ubc.ca] has joined #debian
15:29<Pryon>sorry, reading above
15:29-!-tchunz [~lucas@201.34.141.55] has joined #debian
15:30<Pryon>The previous sentence would be helpful - perhaps the whole sentence. I'm guessing that "actual" is unecessary and can be removed, but it's difficult to say without more context.
15:30<Pryon>s/whole sentence/whole paragraph/
15:30<daniel1>The most difficult parts of the process are planning and laying out the policy settings; Windows takes care of the actual deployment to client computers, which is one of the features that makes GP a compelling management tool.
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15:31<daniel1>this is the whole sentence
15:31-!-eddieB [~eddieB@cpe-65-185-84-79.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
15:32<daniel1>is this enough?
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15:32<nubbun>daniel: do you want to know what it is in english or german as well or only hungarian?
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15:33<JRHartley>deployment (noun) (advertising slang) the successful closing of a sale of legacy products that no-one else will purchase
15:33<daniel1>I only want to know the meaning
15:33<daniel1>it can be in English too
15:34-!-chattr_ [~mike@213.142.188.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
15:34<daniel1>I can translate if I know...
15:34<Pryon>daniel1: it means that Windows will install the software on client computers. The implication is that it is easy and/or automatic
15:34<daniel1>okay thank you
15:34<Pryon>"actual" is probably redundant
15:34<nubbun>daniel1? What does this have to do with Debian?
15:34<daniel1>nothing
15:34<daniel1>I am a debian user
15:34<daniel1>but have to translate this...
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15:35<standalf>hi
15:36<Pryon>hello
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15:37<Standalf>this is better client
15:37<Standalf>I would need help
15:38<Standalf>I can't I find tremulous in synaptic?
15:38<Standalf>it should work... And Why firefox wasn't added to my start panel? I mean applications -> internet -> firefox...
15:39-!-lunatic [~lunatic@ARennes-358-1-113-193.w92-129.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian
15:39<Standalf>can you help me?
15:39<Pryon>apt-get install tremoulous
15:39-!-m42 [~m42@85.138.62.147] has joined #debian
15:40<Standalf>cannot find tremulous :(
15:40<JRHartley>Standalf: firefox ? you mean iceweasel ? and isn't tremulous some sort of children's game ?
15:40<upsilon>do you have contrib in your sources.list for the debian repo?
15:41<Pryon>Standalf: you need contrib on your repository entry in sources.list
15:41<Pryon>beaten
15:41-!-chattr [~mike@213.142.188.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:41<Standalf>JRHartley: yes firefox... tremulous is a great game
15:41-!-SiCuTDeUx [~workstati@190.198.150.85] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:41<Standalf>contrib?...
15:41<upsilon>!contrib
15:41<dpkg>well, contrib is Debian packages that are free, but depend on software not in Debian (possibly in contrib or non-free). To get packages in contrib, add lines like deb http://yourmirror/debian/ [testing|stable] main in your /etc/apt/sources.list need 'contrib' and possibly 'non-free' on the end. Ask me about <non-free>
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15:43<upsilon>and look for iceweasel in your menu
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15:43<Standalf>aha, ice is there... why isn't it called firefox?
15:44<upsilon>!why iceweasel
15:44<dpkg>Due to Mozilla logos licensing, Mozilla software isn't DFSG-free, so Debian distributes Mozilla software with different logos. One day Mozilla Corporation decided to revoke the agreement to let Debian use Mozilla trademarks, so Debian changed to non-trademarked product names. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation_software_rebranded_in_Debian for more information.
15:44<Standalf>lol :D
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15:47<Standalf>I have some contribs there
15:47<Standalf>deb http://ftp.cz.debian.org/debian/ etch main
15:47<Standalf>deb-src http://ftp.cz.debian.org/debian/ etch main
15:47<Standalf>this
15:48<Pryon>add contrib to the ends of those lines
15:48<Pryon>so: deb http://ftp.cz.debian.org/debian/ etch main contrib
15:48-!-maxman [~chatzilla@84-74-89-182.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:48<Standalf>aha
15:48<upsilon>might want to add non-free too
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15:49<Standalf>still cannot find tremulous
15:50<Pryon>did you do apt-get update?
15:50<Standalf>sure
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15:50<upsilon>after changing sources.list?
15:50<Standalf>hhe, but synaptic can find tremulous now
15:50<Standalf>I don't get it
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15:51<Standalf>of course after changing sources.list
15:51<upsilon>that's strange.
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15:52<Standalf>nevermind, At least I see that now, but I don't understand why wasn't contrib after installation :-O
15:53<Pryon>because the things in contrib are not part of Debian
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15:55<Standalf>aha
15:55<Standalf>damn, tremulous-data (>=1.1.0-1) but it is not installable
15:55<Standalf>I can't install all tremulous, only tremulous-dc
15:55<Standalf>I can't install all tremulous, only tremulous-doc
15:55<upsilon>it's non-free
15:55<RTIBobV>how do I setup a shell script that I to run everytime that I login
15:56<upsilon>Standalf: change sources.list again, but add non-free to the end this time
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15:56<upsilon>so you have deb http://ftp.cz.debian.org/debian/ etch main contrib non-free
15:56<Standalf>what is different? I don't get it please explain me
15:56<Standalf>why non-free and free when tremulous is free software?
15:57<avu>Standalf, with many games, the source code itself is free, but the media (textures, models, music) is not
15:57<avu>Standalf, at least not in the dfsg sense
15:58<Standalf>aha, and if I don't have non-free then It's a kind of protection for me?
15:58<avu>Standalf, (keep in mind that there are many things that are considered non-free by debian but free by others, even the fsf)
15:58<avu>Standalf, if you want to know more about why this particular package is in non-free, read its licence
15:59<Flakk>enouf: I have got a problem - could you help?
15:59<Standalf>ok, I'm absolutely new to debian... Linux disappointed me couple times, but I'm trying it again, now Debian
16:00<enouf>Flakk: shoot - i'll try .. but ask the channel too
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16:01<chealer>Standalf: it's not necessarily a protection. it helps you realizing when you use non-free software
16:01<Pryon>RTIBobV: put commands you want run when you log in into ~/.bash_login
16:02<Standalf>yea, I think it's all right
16:02<Pryon>I'm assuming you're using bash as your shell, of course
16:02<Flakk>well - i am installing debian and 1) it said my swap is not a good swap and 2) it did not want to install grub
16:02<Standalf>well, it works, thanks to all :)
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16:03<Flakk>enouf_ it isntalled lilo OK, but now it boots only linux, so my XP partition is not bootable
16:03<RTIBobV>thanks, bash is shell
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16:12<nifan>b'noite
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16:13<upsilon>is it likely to cause me problems if I use repositories meant for ubuntu on debian?
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16:14<JRHartley>upsilon: very likely. you might be lucky, but it would be unlikely to work after a few updates
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16:15<upsilon>to be specific, I don't mean use them for main repos, just to install a couple of things not in a debian repo.
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16:17<JRHartley>upsilon: sure, i understand. but the same basic truth still applies. distros "hang together" cos they use the same set of libraries, kernel etc for everything. something from another distro, is almost certainly predicated on a different set. why don't you try it ? then when it all breaks, you will have a definite answer :)
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16:18<upsilon>well, I have tried it before and the packages worked
16:18<upsilon>but I had mysterious random freezing that I never found the cause of, so I thought it might be caused by that.
16:19<JRHartley>it's that doomsday machine in switzerland, if you ask me ...
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16:19<upsilon>I mean, is it any worse than using unofficial repositories...?
16:20<JRHartley>yes it is worse, in some ways
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16:20<upsilon>hmm.
16:21<chuy_max>upsilon, install from the sources instead of using ubuntu packages
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16:21<JRHartley>would you use a ford windscreen in a daihatsu car ? i mean it might fit, with a bit of unofficial "bodywork" and judicious use of sticking-plaster and string ...
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16:22<upsilon>sure, I see what you mean.
16:22<upsilon>chuy_max: okay. but I try to avoid compiling when possible
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16:23<upsilon>of course this whole thing is just my laziness :)
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16:29<maxman>Hi. I have a little Mini-ITX machine for my Squeezebox and it boots from an IDE CF Card. For the Music I have a 2.5'' SATA HDD. I heard it's possible to configure the data disk so that it only spins whan data has do be read or written. Does anyone have experience with this?
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16:32<maurizio>maxman: I'm no expert, but I think hdparm can do that
16:33<maxman>maurizio: thanks, I'll google for that
16:33<maurizio>maxman: man hdparm is interesting also
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16:35<krisg>hi, where can i edit the welcome message after i login into shell?
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16:35<maurizio>krisg: /etc/motd ?
16:35<stevecotton>man motd.tail
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16:35<Standalf>I have another problem. On ubuntu tremulous didn't work before installation my graphic card, but I don't see it anywhere here.... It's ATI so I know it's not perfect for linux
16:36<krisg1>hi, where can i edit the welcome message after i login into shell?
16:36<stevecotton>On Debian systems, the system message of the day is rebuilt at each startup, in order to display an accurate information. /etc/motd.tail is the file to edit permanent changes to the message of the day.
16:36<krisg1>>< dced
16:36<maurizio>stevecotton: you are right
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16:36<stevecotton>Standalf: are you wanting to know about the card, or about tremulous?
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16:37<stevecotton>!contrib
16:37<dpkg>well, contrib is Debian packages that are free, but depend on software not in Debian (possibly in contrib or non-free). To get packages in contrib, add lines like deb http://yourmirror/debian/ [testing|stable] main in your /etc/apt/sources.list need 'contrib' and possibly 'non-free' on the end. Ask me about <non-free>
16:37<Standalf>here it just start and immidiately end... and all screen is messy..
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16:37-!-chattr_ is now known as chattr
16:37<stevecotton>Trem's in contrib, Trem-data is in non-free
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16:37<Standalf>stevecotton: about graphic card... I think it could work then... But if I don't have to install graphic card I would be happy...
16:38<stevecotton>maurizio: Tried to edit /etc/motd myself, which is how I knew. For non-Debian I think your answer was right.
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16:38<Standalf>so if it's non-free means it won't work?
16:39<stevecotton>!non-free
16:39<dpkg>rumour has it, non-free is a component which contains software that does not comply with the <DFSG>. To add non-free packages to your packages index, ask me about <non-free sources>. To see which non-free packages are installed on your system, ask me about <vrms>. For the Non-free tracking system, see http://nonfree.alioth.debian.org/
16:40<stevecotton>!ati
16:40<dpkg>To use an ATI graphics card with Debian, ask me about <fglrx>, <radeon>, and <radeonhd>.
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16:40<Standalf>!fglrx
16:40<dpkg>methinks fglrx is "FireGL and Radeon for X", the proprietary display driver made available by ATI. To install, ask me about <fglrx one-liner>. http://wiki.debian.org/ATIProprietary, #ati @ irc.freenode.net. See also <radeon>.
16:40<Standalf>!fglrx one-liner
16:40<dpkg>To install fglrx, first make sure you have <contrib> and <non-free sources> in your sources.list. Then: aptitude install module-assistant fglrx-driver fglrx-control fglrx-kernel-src && m-a prepare && m-a a-i fglrx && modprobe fglrx && echo fglrx >> /etc/modules && dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
16:40<stevecotton>If you "/query dpkg" then you can have a private chat with the bot.
16:41<Standalf>ok
16:41<stevecotton>no problem
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16:42<Standalf>thanks... the bot is too pretty helpful
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16:44<krisg1>hi where can i find ~/.bashrc ?
16:44<krisg1>sorry noob here
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16:44<cahoot>krisg1: is shorthand for /home/<user>
16:44<krisg1>thnx
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16:45<dondelelcaro>(it's really shorthand for the home directory of that user which isn't always in /home... but you'll figure that out)
16:45<cahoot>krisg1: dropped the '
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16:59<krisg1>how do i add user but he cant type anything in the prompt?, i tried '
16:59<krisg1> useradd -s /bin/cat nameofuser
16:59<krisg1>worked but there's an error Could not chdir to home directory..
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17:11<stoney>http://savestockton.org/zone/index.php?topic=383.0
17:11<stoney>oops
17:11<stoney>wrong buffer
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17:12<stoney>simple survey: wondering what the preferred firewall pkg is
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17:14<themill>!bad polls
17:14<dpkg>The reasons we hate polls are because: 1) they are a massive waste of IRC and bandwidth and screen real estate when asked in a 700 person channel. Did you want 700 answers? 2) They're often a prelude to isolating one helper and barraging him or her in /msg. BAD! 3) We don't care about Ubuntu, this is #debian
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17:26<spectral>hey is it possible to made an ethernet work with 2 os (debian + windows (my sis uses it))?
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17:27<daniiel>do you mean at the same time?
17:27<spectral>to make*
17:27<spectral>yes
17:27<daniiel>you have a router?
17:28<spectral>not yet. i'll buy it soon
17:28<daniiel>you need one
17:29-!-schoinobates [~lmamane@2001:888:19f0:2:2e0:81ff:fe54:abf9] has joined #debian
17:29<spectral>yea i know. but if i configure the ethernet and use debian in my pc and windows on my sis pc, will it work?
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17:30<spectral>it doesn't need to have an admin. i'll be the admin for debian and she will be the admin for windows.
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17:32<spectral>well, i don't think it will work. thank you anyway, daniiel ;)
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18:05<kerry>debhelper: I need the guid off this pc and I don't know how under linux.... Anyone know??
18:06<themill>kerry: guid?
18:06<kerry>yeah, the suid of the actual Pc for netboot
18:07<themill>MAC address / network address?
18:07<kerry>nah, got those,
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18:08<kerry>need the actual 25 char guid, usually shown in bios or on netboot access (but it doesn't show the actual guid)
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18:09<nDuff>kerry, try lshw
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18:09<jj_>#debian-it
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18:11<nDuff>kerry, sudo lshw -xml | xmlstarlet sel -t -m "/node/configuration/setting[@id='uuid']" -v @value
18:11<nDuff>^^ works for me
18:11<kerry>yesh, I come across something else on here lol
18:11<kerry>I forgot root pass.. ;P
18:12-!-mode/#debian [+l 293] by debhelper
18:12<kerry>but thats cool though
18:12*kerry begins to forage for the immortal knoppix disk
18:12<nDuff>btw, why do you need the guid for netboot? PXE typically just runs off the MAC address
18:12<kerry>Winblows.. :P
18:12<nDuff>ahh.
18:13<dmoerner>if you have knoppix handy why do you need to netboot?
18:13<kerry>I run a mad 2k3 server farm, with all clients handed out images by remote install
18:13<dmoerner>ah
18:13<kerry>just one doesn't have a guid handy
18:13<kerry>and it has linux, but not for too long... sa mp scripting got me
18:13<kerry>unless there's a semi decent pawn editor in linux?
18:14<nDuff>pawn?
18:14<nDuff>(none that I know of, but there are plenty of virtualization and compatibility layer solutions available...)
18:14<kerry>yeah, I been playing sa:mp for months now
18:15<nDuff>ohh, it's a game
18:15<kerry>and now starting to be asked to script for others so, I cool for that... ;P
18:15<kerry>lol
18:15<nDuff>yar, running win32 native is probably your best bet
18:15<kerry>yuck though lol... :0
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18:16*nDuff <- boring professional type, doesn't think "game" in conjunction with "server farm".
18:16<kerry>all mint though, I'll be back when i got another linux based issue... :o)
18:16<kerry>lol hell yeah
18:16<kerry>:)
18:16<kerry>got 3 rack mounts with a storage array, nice development setup
18:17<kerry>even though I don't have enough PCs to use them hard, but meh.... It's never a case of too much power.... NEVER
18:18<nDuff>ehh, looked at your electric bill lately? :)
18:18<kerry>lol.... yeah.. :0
18:18*nDuff underclocks his hardware at home, and is looking for a *smaller* system to be his always-on home server.
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18:19<kerry>I was running a 233, with 128 megs ram as a server before, but now I got dual 733s, and dual 1ghz..... oh man, I can only use that minibox as a wget/shell/mailbox
18:19<RTIBobV>If i type export DUMMY=test and then printenv I can see the DUMMY variable. If I put export DUMMY=test into a file, test.sh and type sh test.sh, and then type printenv, I do not see DUMMY set. What am I doing wrong. I need to set an env variable in a script and want it to be persisten.
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18:19<deniz>does any1 no of a program that would allow me to convert a dvd disc into mp4 format and have it work in my psp?
18:20<nDuff>(SPA-3001 + asterisk + X10 => home-automation fun)
18:20<nDuff>deniz, it might be possible with mencoder.
18:20<deniz>nDuff, isnt that like a dependency?
18:20-!-insan-e [~insan-e@145.186.46.84.ip.erdves.lt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:20<deniz>nDuff, like is there a wiki for debian and psp?
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18:20<nDuff>deniz, eh? it certainly can be used as a backend by other software, but one can use it standalone if sufficiently adventurous.
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18:21<nDuff>deniz, no clue about whether there's a wiki, would need to google.
18:21-!-knoppix_ [~knoppix@p54A2C945.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
18:21<deniz>nDuff, is mencoder a terminal app?
18:21<nDuff>deniz, yes.
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18:21<kerry>righto, i give this a go now, BBS nDuff... :P
18:21<deniz>nDuff, is it in a "bad" repository?
18:21-!-kerry [~kerry@125-239-10-75.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: DUDE!!!!!]
18:22<nDuff>deniz, no clue, haven't used it in years, and I don't think I was on Debian at the time.
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18:22<MoDaX>deniz: it is on debian-multimedia.org
18:23<RTIBobV>any help for env variable question?
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18:24<themill>RTIBobV: a script can't export to the environment of the controlling shell
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18:24<RTIBobV>I need to set an env var in order to run an app, how do I do that
18:25<themill>RTIBobV: do you want it set all the time?
18:25<RTIBobV>yes
18:25-!-adamm [~adamm@polaris.galacticasoftware.com] has joined #debian
18:25<themill>command line app?
18:25-!-gusnan [~gusnan@h23n1c1o269.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #debian
18:25<RTIBobV>no gui
18:25<RTIBobV>no, gui
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18:26<deniz>MoDaX, so wat do i add to my sources.list? debian-multimedia.org doesnt work
18:26<themill>!doesn't work
18:26<dpkg>Look buddy, "doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message".
18:26<MoDaX>!debian-multimedia
18:26<dpkg>[dmm] Debian Multimedia, a repository of unofficial Debian packages, not in Debian for patent-related reasons, maintained by Christian Marillat. For information on how to use this repository, see http://debian-multimedia.org/ or ask me about <debian-multimedia.etch>
18:26<themill>RTIBobV: if it's for all users, you can stick it in /etc/environment. Otherwise, you can just use a wrapper script that sets the env var and then calls your gui program
18:27<RTIBobV>i tried the latter which included modifying the path, but it fails when trying to exe the app
18:27<themill>RTIBobV: btw programs shouldn't usually rely on environment variables. How did you try?
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18:29<deniz>nDuff, MoDaX, k, im installing mencoder now
18:29-!-Atomo64 [~Atomo64@200.92.149.70] has joined #debian
18:31<deniz>nDuff, wat command would i use?
18:32<RTIBobV>ok, I checked the env variables that were created by the install for the app. one of the vars was incorrect. I corrected it and app tries to run. Now i have to check licenses.
18:32<RTIBobV>this is an imaging app/development tool
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18:33<nDuff>deniz, you're probably better off either googling for a command line or using a GUI frontend; search for "mencoder" on freshmeat.net, and it'll show quite a number of frontends available.
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18:36<RTIBobV>thanks, that solved the first problem.
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18:37<themill>:)
18:37<FugeFuge>wow, k, lshw not on knoppix... gonna try get the thing to update itself or something
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18:38<RTIBobV>When trying to use libraries from a development package do you typically copy them into the /lib directory or is there a better approach.
18:38<sime>hi
18:38<daniiel>why do you need lshw? try "lspci -v" it tells you just about the same thing
18:39<sime>is there a way to get registrar information and domain owner etc information with dig?
18:39-!-Web-sidux459 [~alexander@p54946029.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian
18:39<FugeFuge>I need the guid of the system
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18:40<themill>RTIBobV: if there are no debian packages and you have to manually install things, then use /usr/local or /opt for installing your software.
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18:41<themill>RTIBobV: Basically, don't touch any directories that the packaging system touches to stay safe.
18:41<RTIBobV>ok then how does an app find the libraries?
18:41-!-riccardo [~riccardo@host118-242-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit []
18:41<daniiel>libraries exist in certain locations
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18:43<themill>RTIBobV: you're asking me to deal with hypotheticals here and that's hard... is this libraries for compiling things with your development package? or is this libraries that the app needs to run?
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18:44<FugeFuge>hmmmm, I'm still stumped lol.... what package is lshw in??
18:44<RTIBobV>sorry, i am trying to write a C++ app that uses the libraries from this toolset. I am not sure how my app finds the libraries w/o me hardcoding paths
18:44-!-stoney [~chatzilla@adsl-75-6-133-37.dsl.skt2ca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #debian
18:45<Pryon>FugeFuge: apt-cache search lshw
18:45<RTIBobV>i usually dev in win xp so im accustomed to dlls that dynamically load. Are so libraries statically linked in Linux?
18:45-!-_ajonat [~ajonat@190.48.102.251] has joined #debian
18:46<Pryon>the dynamic linker has a configurable search path
18:46<RTIBobV>and I set this up in the eclipse environment?
18:47<themill>RTIBobV: .so libraries are dynamically linked. (.a libraries are archives for static linking). There are "well known" paths for locating libraries and you can also add extras (/etc/ld.so*)
18:47-!-geenna [~geenna@213-140-21-232.fastres.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:47<RTIBobV>so i copy the libraries to /etc?
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18:47<themill>no!
18:47<daniiel>=)
18:47<FugeFuge>thanks Pryon, attempting now.. ;
18:48<Pryon>RTIBobV: The configuration file for the dynamic linker/loader is in /etc (or a subdirectory thereof)
18:48<themill>RTIBobV: you can add extra *search* *paths* to /etc/ld.so.conf.d
18:48<themill>RTIBobV: For the linking step, you can tell the linker to look anywhere you want within eclipse).
18:48<daniiel>you probably want to use /usr/locale/lib
18:49-!-Garda [~Garda@203-219-54-98.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:49<themill>s/locale/local/
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18:50<RTIBobV>so create a subdir in /usr/local/lib/ and add the search path to /etc/ld.so.conf.d?
18:50<daniiel>mispell, sorry. -- /usr/local/lib
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18:51<todoesverso>Hi, does anyone know of a best alternative for cxref?
18:51<Pryon>RTIBobV: that sounds correct. An alternative is the environment variable LD_LIBRARY_PATH
18:51-!-FugeFuge [~knoppix@125-239-10-75.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:52<Pryon>todoesverso: doxygen might be an alternative, but I'm guessing
18:52-!-ajonat_ [~ajonat@190.48.108.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:52<RTIBobV>LD_LIBRARY_PATH takes me back to trying to set a persistent env var, which i do not seem very successful at doing
18:53<todoesverso>i'll check it out, thanks!
18:53-!-ao2 [~u@2001:1418:117::1] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:54<RTIBobV>lastly regarding eclipse, ive not had good success at getting the cdt to install via synaptic. what is a good approach at getting eclipse cdt installed correctly?
18:55<Pryon>apt-get install eclipse-cdt ?
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18:56<Pryon>which release are you running?
18:56<RTIBobV>pryon: as root or user?
18:56<Pryon>root
18:56<RTIBobV>i'd like to use 3.4 but i dont think its pkged for debian yet
18:57<Pryon>according to my system (sid AMD64, it's 3.1.2)
18:57<Pryon>Just imagine I put that ')' in the correct place
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18:58<RTIBobV>sorry im running etch
18:59<themill>eclipse-cdt doesn't exist as a package for etch
19:00<RTIBobV>k, so what do I do?
19:00<RTIBobV>apt-get install eclipse-cdt is busy installing, is this why im having prblms
19:01<RTIBobV>i need to upgrade to lenny or etch
19:01<RTIBobV>sid
19:01<Pryon>that should return immediately
19:01<Pryon>(assuming you're running etch)
19:01<themill>RTIBobV: can you pastebin the output of: apt-cache policy
19:02<RTIBobV>im running etch but have lenny in spt references
19:02-!-anibal_ is now known as anibal
19:02<RTIBobV>how do you pastebin
19:03<themill>!pastebin
19:03<dpkg>Do not paste more than 3 lines to this channel. Instead, use: http://paste.debian.net/ or http://rafb.net/paste/ or http://picpaste.com for pics. Use wikisend.com for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste!
19:03<jaddle>anyone want to help debug an exim problem?
19:03-!-lobao [~Humberto@189.32.22.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:04*Pryon is blissfully ignorant of exim
19:04<jaddle>I have a condition that seems to expand to false, but the router is still being run... very frustrating.
19:04-!-Knorrie- [knorrie@yoshi.kantoor.mendix.nl] has joined #debian
19:04<jaddle>I've been using exim for about 10 years, and only just the other day decided it was time to really learn how it works. :)
19:04-!-Knorrie [knorrie@yoshi.kantoor.mendix.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:04<RTIBobV>paste.debian.net/17414
19:04<themill>mistake number 1
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19:05<themill>RTIBobV: what version does this show: dpkg -l libc6 | tail -1
19:07<RTIBobV>2.7-13
19:07<themill>RTIBobV: well, that pretty much means you're running lenny now, although you probably have a mixture of etch and lenny packages.
19:08<RTIBobV>apt finished its install and eclipse 3.2 is on the desktop,
19:08<themill>RTIBobV: At this stage, you may as well remove etch from your sources.list, add lenny/updates for lenny's security updates and do an aptitude update && aptitude dist-upgrade.
19:08<RTIBobV>How do i bring my system up to lenny
19:08<RTIBobV>thanks
19:08<themill>dpkg: tell RTIBobV about etch->lenny
19:10<RTIBobV>thanks, a little bit of work and hopefully this dev project will be stable
19:10-!-emonge [~emonge@190.87.85.212] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
19:10<NickPresta>I'm using KDE 4.1.1 on Debian Testing and when trying to view images in Konqueror (raw images, not IMG elements or anything like that), I get an error about init_khtmlimagepart and missing symbols or something. Where should I start looking for a solution. Google wasn't much help.
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19:11<themill>NickPresta: you'd be better asking in #debian-kde
19:12-!-mode/#debian [+l 286] by debhelper
19:12<jaddle>hmm.. I guess I'll try #exim on freenode..
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19:12<NickPresta>themill, thanks
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19:17<RTIBobV>ok so after doing lenny upgrade when eclipse starts it says "this eclipse build doesnt have support for integrated browser"
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19:22<sime>is there a way to get registrar information and domain owner etc information with dig?
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19:30<daniiel>man dig ?
19:32<chealer>sime: are you aware that nslookup provides that information?
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19:35<spectral>how do i configure "nohup"?
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19:36<nowhere_man>is X.org autodetection completely broken?
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19:36<dondelelcaro>nowhere_man: nope
19:36<RTIBobV>where is the best place to look for eclipse cdt programming support?
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19:37<nowhere_man>on every system I install recently, I don't get its configuration detected when the package is installed...
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19:37<dondelelcaro>spectral: uh... it doesn't have anything to configure?
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19:37<dondelelcaro>nowhere_man: I can't parse what you mean by "its configuration detected"
19:37<spectral>dondelelcaro: i mean can i configure nohup to work with some archive that i'm downloading?
19:38<nowhere_man>previously, when installing X.org package, there were a bunch of questions and they were prefilled by autodetection
19:38<spectral>dondelelcaro: like "nohup wget http://site.com/archive.tar.gz"
19:38<nowhere_man>things like what is your video card, screen and so on
19:38<dondelelcaro>nowhere_man: the modern system doesn't ask questions
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19:39<dondelelcaro>nowhere_man: it just automatically figures out what drivers to load, what size screen you've got, etc.
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19:39<dondelelcaro>unless you're doing something unusual, there's pretty much no point to it asking questions anyway
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19:40<dondelelcaro>since X knows far better how to configure things than a shell script (or in most cases, the user) ever will
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19:40<dondelelcaro>spectral: ( wget http://site.com/archive.tar.gz & )
19:41<dondelelcaro>spectral: or similar
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19:41<spectral>dondelelcaro: oh... ok, thanks :D
19:41*dondelelcaro actually uses a tiny shell script called faf for fork and forget to do that
19:41<dondelelcaro>http://svn.donarmstrong.com/don/trunk/bin/faf
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19:54<exal>hola
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20:09<RTIBobV>where is the best place to look for eclipse cdt programming support?
20:10-!-__iron [~tobias@p4FD2C5A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian
20:11<chealer>RTIBobV: did you try eclipse's IRC channel?
20:11<abrotman>there is a #eclipse on freenode
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20:17<daniiel>would a usb 1.1 bus be fast enough to play music from an external hardrive?
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20:18<weasel>probably.
20:18<weasel>if in doubt check the specs
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20:22<amphi>daniiel: you can get a max of 1.2MB/s across that IIRC, more than enough for music
20:23<daniiel>would a song (.ogg) require roughly it's bitrate in transfer (bus?) speed ?
20:23<daniiel>i know .ogg bitrate isn't static however
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20:27<JRHartley>amphi: yeah even uncompressed cdda is only ~175KB/s
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20:31<daniiel>awesome, thanks
20:31<JRHartley>so at 192kb/s abr mp3, you have an average byte rate of 24KB/s. which is 1/7 the rate of cdda, and sure enough, the files are 1/7 the size
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20:42-!-mode/#debian [+l 280] by debhelper
20:42<iureyguei>hi all
20:42<spersaud>I never knew how much a keyboard could add to computing experience... this Microsoft Keyboards makes typing suck so much
20:42<iureyguei>anybody master on apache?
20:44-!-themill [~stuart@86.53.48.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:45<qq->iureyguei: just ask your question
20:45-!-omer_ [~omer@ip-11.net-89-2-224.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:46<qq->!apache
20:46<dpkg>apache is probably a versatile, high-performance HTTP server; ask me about <apache2><install apache2><apache 1.3><apache manual>.
20:47*qq- use HPL High-Performance Linpack
20:52<abrotman>iureyguei: that's not a real question
20:54<RTIBobV>chealer: abrotman: thanks, it appears that eclipses IRC is primarily for developers working on the eclipse prjct. im looking for more general help. this is my first project in linux/eclipse.
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21:01<abrotman>iureyguei: do not msg me
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21:03<qq->iureyguei: do not msg me too
21:03<iureyguei>anyway
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21:05<abrotman>iureyguei: ask in the channel
21:06<iureyguei>I wanna ask private
21:06<iureyguei>:)
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21:06<chealer>RTIBobV: which channel did you try?
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21:07<abrotman>iureyguei: that's not how it works here
21:10<spersaud>quit
21:10<spersaud>clear
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21:11<RTIBobV>#eclipse
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21:12<MotoHoss>!tell iureyguei about ask
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21:18<iureyguei>I get the following output : [client 127.0.0.1] (13)Permission denied: access to
21:18-!-zhua278 [~yzh424@58.61.204.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:19<iureyguei>when i tried to add virtual directory in apache
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21:19<iureyguei>this is the problem
21:20<abrotman>output when?
21:20<iureyguei>when i tried to access with web browser
21:21-!-zhua278 [~yzh424@58.61.204.150] has left #debian []
21:22<abrotman>and what are the perms on the directory?
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21:22<MotoHoss>!tell iureyguei about paste
21:23<iureyguei><VirtualHost *:80>
21:23<iureyguei> ServerAdmin webmaster@localhost
21:23<iureyguei> DocumentRoot /home/iureyguei/Desktop/www
21:23<iureyguei> Alias /web/ "/home/iureyguei/Desktop/www"
21:23<iureyguei> <Directory "/home/iureyguei/Desktop/www/">
21:23-!-iureyguei was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
21:23<MotoHoss>iureyguei: i tried to tell you about paste.
21:24<abrotman>i just asked for perms
21:24<MotoHoss>abrotman: &<)
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21:25<daniiel>whats perms? (irc newbie)
21:25<abrotman>i said what i emant
21:25<abrotman>meant
21:26<MotoHoss>!tell daniiel about permissions
21:28<MotoHoss>setting up debmirror I made a rookie mistake with an alias directory just a few minutes ago... took me a minute or two to figure out what I had done... didn't even need it... the alias, that is.
21:29-!-iureyguei_ [~iureyguei@sofia-pppoe180-131.netissat.bg] has joined #debian
21:31<iureyguei_>http://paste.debian.net/17419/
21:31<iureyguei_>:)
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21:33<abrotman>iureyguei_: i'd guess the www-data doesn't have perms correct to use that directory for web files
21:33-!-x22 [0xFFF@124.188.51.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:34<iureyguei_>no problems with perms
21:35-!-__iron [~tobias@p4FD2C5A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:35<abrotman>did you check the apache logs?
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21:35<iureyguei_>drwxrwxrwx 2 www-data www-data
21:35<iureyguei_>:)
21:36<abrotman>did you check the apache logs?
21:36<iureyguei_>yes
21:36<abrotman>and what's the error ?
21:36<iureyguei_>[client 127.0.0.1] (13)Permission denied: access to
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21:37<abrotman>right .. permissions are bad
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21:44<iureyguei_>okay
21:44<iureyguei_>10x
21:44<iureyguei_>good night
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21:45<MotoHoss>iureyguei_: good luck.
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21:52<spectral>cya
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22:05<twb>iptables configuration on RHEL seems to be highly structured, but on Debian I get the impression it's very "ad hoc". I'm looking for a "iptables on Debian best practices" document.
22:05<twb>!iptables
22:05<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, iptables is the user-space process used to administer iptables kernel parts on top of netfilter, or ask me about <netfilter docs>, or at http://netfilter.org/ or http://lartc.org/.(check it out because iptables (2.4.x) has some security holes) See also: <masq>, or try #iptables (irc.freenode.net) for help, or for a proper debian-way of setting up iptables, please read http://www.howtoforge.com/node/450
22:05<twb>Is that last link what I want?
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22:09<abrotman>twb: that is pretty out of date
22:10<abrotman>i guess it could still work
22:10<abrotman>i'd recommend you read /usr/share/doc/iptables/*
22:10<twb>OK, thanks.
22:14<twb>abrotman: hmm, no README.Debian -- just some upstream TLDP-looking HOWTOs
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22:15<abrotman>sounds good!
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22:29<svend>Any recommendations for a lightweight image viewer? It should support browsing a directory with thumbnails.
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22:37<regelatwork>I dont know about lightwight.
22:37<regelatwork>I personally use gwenview.
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22:38<abrotman>svend: feh or eog
22:38<abrotman>though eog is gnome-ish
22:38<upsilon>don't most file managers have thumbnails?
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22:40<twb>svend: I prefer xzgv because it has some basic directory browsing support and also resize/rotating
22:42<regelatwork>Just to appease emacs lovers, there is image-dired
22:44<blarson>and pornview, which doesn't care whether the images it views are porn or not.
22:44<svend>I'll check those out.
22:44<svend>I installed mirage, and it works well.
22:46<daniiel>im using xfce making a thunar custom action to convert .jpg to .png using imagemagick. the command convert %f %f.png is leaving me with ***.jpg.png; anyone know how i'd strip the .jpg part?
22:48<regelatwork>${f//jpg/png} instead of $f.png
22:49<regelatwork>ah, I misread. it is not in a script
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22:56<amphi>daniiel: you probably need to write a script, and have thunar call that
22:56<tdrusk>I am running lenny. When it becomes stable will I have to upgrade to sid to have a rolling release?
22:57<abrotman>tdrusk: you can change your sources to testing
22:57<amphi>daniiel: then the script can do convert "$1" "${1/.jpg/.png}"
22:57<upsilon>tdrusk: you can have testing in your sources.list instead of lenny
22:57<twb>regelatwork: that's a bashism. The pure sh equivalent is ${f%.jpg}.png
22:57<tdrusk>upsilon: Oh okay. That's simple enough. Thanks.
22:57<abrotman>tdrusk: your new packages will get slow as lenny gets closer to release .. but after a couple of weeks, the flood gate will open
22:57<amphi>heh
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22:58<upsilon>I'm waiting for that :)
22:58<abrotman>it's not always fun
22:58<tdrusk>abrotman: that is if I switch from "lenny" to "testing" correct?
22:58<abrotman>yes
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22:58<tdrusk>sweet thanks
22:58<abrotman>duuude .. what's mine say?
22:59<upsilon>I suppose putting squeeze wouldn't work right away?
22:59<abrotman>nope
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22:59<abrotman>IIRC anyways
23:00<twb>abrotman: re my iptables question; #iptables taught me to use "iptables-restore </etc/iptab" at boot time.
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23:00<regelatwork>twb: thanks for that. Is there a simple way to unlearn bashisms? They tend to creep up on my mind!
23:00<upsilon>I'll keep as testing anyway, don't want to go through a version upgrade again :/
23:01<twb>regelatwork: run them in posh/dash and watch them fail; then swear and fix them :-)
23:01<abrotman>twb: okay .. that's fine
23:01<twb>regelatwork: there's also checkbashism
23:01<twb>regelatwork: it's a script in devscripts or similar
23:01<twb>regelatwork: also, the SUS spec is available online for reference, but note that SunOS and stuff don't comply with those more-than-POSIX standards
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23:01<twb>regelatwork: http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/
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23:12<regelatwork>thb: thanks those are good resources
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23:15<tdrusk>How can I mount my external HD? It is ext3 in /dev/sda1
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23:18<chrisb>tdrusk: if it isn't in your /etc/fstab then you need root permissions to mount it to an appropriate mount point
23:19<chrisb>Read through man mount for an overview. You may need to create a mount point under the /mnt directory for it.
23:20<chrisb>Doing some guessing here as my lazy self is running a 2.4.x series kernel under Slackware.
23:20<tdrusk>crisb: ah okay. I'm just going to add it to fstab
23:21<chrisb>tdrusk: Ahhh - the smart way to it! Good choice.
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23:23<tdrusk>chrisb: sweet action. Thanks
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23:24<ravenbird>ROOT has landed!
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23:25<gord>Under the Debian installer there is an option for 'standard system'. What packages are included in this? (I did not install them and may need them)
23:25-!-nsadmin [~nsadmin@206.192.23.186] has joined #debian
23:26<twb>gord: basically things like less and w3m
23:27<gord>twb, nothing that would make iceweasel not start?
23:27<twb>Probably some network diagnostic tools like mtr and host, too
23:27<twb>gord: iceweasel wouldn't be installed by the "standard" tasksel task.
23:28<nsadmin>is any part of x in the standard system?
23:28-!-streuner_ [~streuner@p54A5FF5B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian
23:29<gord>twb, I'm not referring to iceweasel itself, but perhaps some part of x as nsadmin is pointing out
23:29<twb>gord: X isn't included by the standard tasksel task, either.
23:29<gord>the program shows no errors, simply starts and immediately exits with status 1
23:29<twb>gord: strace iceweasel, then.
23:29<gord>doesnt even hit the desktop
23:30<nsadmin>at one time, emacs, tex and gcc+friends were part of standard system, and x sas not
23:30-!-ofirg__ [~ofirg@bzq-79-177-104-70.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #debian
23:30<twb>It's not like MoCo's code isn't riddled with bugs.
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23:30<gord>twb, is there another way to obtain the real firefox through repos?
23:30<twb>gord: I don't know or care.
23:31<gord>what browser would you recommend?
23:31<twb>gord: for what purpose?
23:31<gord>lightweight, fast browsing, as barebones as possible
23:31<gord>I hate clutter
23:31<twb>Personally, I use w3m, emacs-w3m and html2ps regularly.
23:32<twb>I use midori nearly regularly, and very occasionally I use opera or firefox.
23:32<twb>Historically I've also used netsurf and dillo, but I think midori is making faster progress than netsurf. Dillo is completely dead.
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23:32<nsadmin>gord: debian legal got the impression they could not distribute firefox under that name
23:32<twb>gord: see, when you say "bare bones" I think you're full of shit. To you "bare bones" probably includes support for images, CSS, javascript, flash, plugins, and all manner of other silly shit.
23:32<twb>nsadmin: it's not an impression; it's the law.
23:32<craigevil>i like opera, i was a big firefox but the last update in sid borked several of my extensions
23:32<nsadmin>so perhaps, that's a "no" to your question
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23:33<gord>I used dillo and netsurf for a bit. I was impressed by the speed of dillo, and netsurf's lack of tabbed browsing really turned me off
23:33<nsadmin>twb: I'm not a lawyer; are you?
23:33<twb>nsadmin: I am not a lawyer.
23:33<nsadmin>so it's your impression :)
23:34<twb>nsadmin: it's not my impression. I'm repeating reliable secondary and tertiary sources; particularly Rick Moen (who has had legal training) and various debian-legal related documents.
23:36<SledgY>Firefox isn't in debian largely because it contains non-free items
23:36-!-streuner [~streuner@p54A5E0A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:36<qq->!why iceweasel
23:36<dpkg>Due to Mozilla logos licensing, Mozilla software isn't DFSG-free, so Debian distributes Mozilla software with different logos. One day Mozilla Corporation decided to revoke the agreement to let Debian use Mozilla trademarks, so Debian changed to non-trademarked product names. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation_software_rebranded_in_Debian for more information.
23:36<SledgY>it's name is trademarked as is it's logo
23:36<nsadmin>oh, ok... btw I was trying to do you the favor of covering your a** since it's my impression that making uncited comments of what the law is or is not could be construed as practicing law without a license
23:36<twb>Indeed; it's a trademark law issue, not a copyright or contract law issue.
23:36<gord>SledgY, so it's basically the exact same program with a different name and icon
23:36<SledgY>I believe so
23:37<twb>gord: correct.
23:37<nsadmin>but nevermind... you can cover your own if you want
23:37<twb>gord: all the stupidity, bloat and bugs from upstream are still there.
23:37<SledgY>Although it may have additional patches etc, has some different default settings
23:37<SledgY>overall it's pretty much the same
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23:39<gord>twb, I see, and to clarify my requirements for a browser, yes I would like CSS, Images, and flash. What I dont want is endless options for every possible adjustment, addition, preference a program can contain
23:40<twb>gord: I'd be obliged if you didn't refer to such requirements as "bare bones", then.
23:40<gord>bones, with a few muscles and ligaments
23:40<twb>flash is more like acne than ligaments
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23:41<gord>unfortunately I need it for educational purposes
23:41<SledgY>what's wrong with ephany
23:41<gord>plus ted talks are awesome
23:41<twb>Ick, your school uses BlackboardTM or something?
23:41<twb>SledgY: it's webkit backend is flaky as hell
23:42<twb>SledgY: and obviously its gecko backend is... gecko.
23:42<SledgY>I've not had issues with Gecko
23:42<twb>gord: if you just want youtube bollocks, I hear you can do that with mplayer.
23:42<twb>SledgY: I have issues with it wanting to use up all my RAM.
23:42<twb>SledgY: but yeah, generally my problems with Firefox are in firefox, not gecko.
23:43<SledgY>I find it's usually plugins that eat ram
23:43<SledgY>and Ram is dirt cheap
23:43<twb>I used ephy when it got less annoying than galeon, but I dropped it for midori.
23:43<gord>I'm using epiphany right now
23:43<gord>I'll give midori a try though, thanks for the suggestion
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23:44<twb>SledgY: I never use plugins, and I don't care how cheap RAM is; putting another 4GB in a $200 laptop just so I can browse a bloody webpage is outrageous.
23:44<twb>gord: note that if you're on Lenny, you'll need to upgrade libglib2.16 to avoid the segfault-on-every-page issue in midori.
23:44<nsadmin>4gb?? wow :) can I have it?
23:44<gord>twb, I am on Lenny, thanks for the heads up
23:44<twb>Full disclosure: I co-maintain the midori debian package.
23:45<nsadmin>what laptop can you put upwards of 4gb in?
23:45<twb>nsadmin: I've no idea. My laptop has 512MB.
23:45<gord>there must be a laptop with 4 ram slots out somewhere
23:45<twb>nsadmin: I really only need about 128MB for Emacs, except if I'm compiling locally.
23:45<SledgY>twb: I've not had ram issues with the latest builds of Iceweasel on my lappy, and it's only got 1GB
23:46<SledgY>with Lenny, on an eeepc
23:46<gord>SledgY, 10" ?
23:46<nsadmin>I would definitely like an amd64xN laptop with a few ram slots
23:46<gord>I was tempted to whip out my credit card when I saw one at my local computer shop
23:47<twb>Well, in any case, I only use GUI web browsers for webpages that are completely broken if you don't have javascript. For example: google code's and launchpad's BTS.
23:47<SledgY>gord: 701
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23:47<craigevil>icweasel runs just fine on my eee 701 with 1 gb of ram
23:47<gord>SledgY, you aren't bothered by the lack of screen space?
23:47<twb>gord: just be sure to buy the one with the extra disk, rather than the one with the Windows license.
23:47<SledgY>going to get a 901 soon (just for the extra display)
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23:48<SledgY>oh and built in bluetooth
23:48<gord>SledgY, get the 1001 or whatever they're calling it
23:48<craigevil>you get used to the small screen and keyboard, the lightweight more than makes up for it, plus when im home i hook it up to my 19" monitor
23:48<SledgY>gord: pass, don't want a HD
23:48<gord>SledgY, I thought it was ssd?
23:49<twb>http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Eee_PC
23:49<SledgY>the 1001 have HDD's in them
23:49<twb>There's a table of the 20 or so different models
23:49<gord>why on earth...
23:49<SledgY>the 901 linux version has a 20GB SSD
23:49<SledgY>with a debian install that's a ton of space
23:49<twb>gord: HDDs are cheaper and have faster I/O
23:50<gord>If I'm buying a portable I expect it to last more than 3 hours
23:50<SledgY>701 gets me around 4-5hours
23:50<twb>gord: get an atom board, then. Better would be an ARM, but then you lose x86 compatibility.
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23:50<twb>SledgY: you upgraded the cell?
23:51<SledgY>twb: Nope
23:51<twb>My 701 4G struggles to do 4h, even when not running X and with the ondemand governor.
23:51<gord>chances are I wont get anything on the market currently. I have a 12" laptop that works fine. I'll wait for more competition in the ultraportables, cheaper and better ssd's...
23:51<craigevil>SledgY: what desktop?
23:51<SledgY>is yours the 4400mAh or 5200mAh?
23:51<twb>SledgY: the latter, I believe.
23:52<SledgY>Depends of course what I'm doing
23:52<SledgY>But I used mine in the airport and then on a 3.5 hour flight and still had about 30% battery left
23:52<twb>$ cat /sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/charge_full_design ==> 5200000
23:52<SledgY>was mainly doing dev in an xterm though
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23:53<SledgY>and WLan was off
23:53<SledgY>also if you don't use the webcam turn it off
23:53<twb>Yeah, wlan probably accounts for 20 minutes or so
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23:53<SledgY>I've also got a gig of ram
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23:57<gord>my output redirect isn't working for strace
23:57<gord>it does spit out a nasty list of jibberish though
23:57<twb>strace -o /tmp/trace firefox
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23:59<gord>I might need to try that in a second, but I think I may have found the problem in the last few lines
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23:59<JRHartley>gord: or "strace someprog 2> MYTRACE"
---Logclosed Wed Sep 17 00:00:30 2008