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#debian IRC Logs for 2008-11-22

---Logopened Sat Nov 22 00:00:14 2008
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00:02<gsimmons>PLITS: The b43 driver was included from kernel 2.6.24. You would want to install and boot with an etchnhalf kernel (eg. aptitude install linux-image-2.6-amd64-etchnhalf) to obtain this driver.
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00:02<kop>Are there any other choices for diagramming besides dia?
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00:05<PLITS>gsimmons, so now i have to use only that kernel i cant do anything with this one
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00:12<PLITS>gsimmons, thnx a lot for ur time ... it worked now how can i remove the onld kernel so i dont have it around in grub or just remove it from grub?
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00:19<gsimmons>PLITS: You may want to retain it as a backup/fallback, otherwise remove the relevant 'linux-image-2.6.18-*-amd64' package (and 'linux-image-2.6-amd64') from your system. GRUB's configuration will be amended at this time.
00:22<kop>PLITS : You will need to do an "aptitude purge linux-image..." or "apt-get purge linux-image..." kind of command to get rid of all of the old kernel.
00:24<PLITS>i will keep it as a redudency option thnx guys i have to play with it now to make it apropriate havent played with linux since college with redhat shrinke
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00:27<Valtiel>why vnc servers don't working on debian
00:28<Valtiel>a try thigvncserver
00:28<Valtiel>and all nont working
00:28<tennerbaum>hi, I use ubuntu but nobody from their irc can help me. My problems is that I cannot install or uninstall anyathing, the add-remove of synaptic package manager opens and then closes in less than a second
00:28<Valtiel>close connection after enter password
00:29<dr|z3d>tennerbaum: That's pretty easy. Just delete all the files in /var/apt/cache
00:29<Valtiel>tennerbaum: dpkg --reconfigure
00:29<Valtiel>i can't remember
00:29<dr|z3d>tennerbaum: Not in the subdir marked archives, *just* that directory.
00:30<dr|z3d>tennerbaum: Let us know how you get on.
00:30<Valtiel>vnc server it's posible in debian or not ?
00:30<tennerbaum>what's the terminal command for deleting files
00:30<Valtiel>on kubuntu it's no problem
00:30<dr|z3d>Valtiel: Yes, it's possible.
00:31<dr|z3d>tennerbaum: rm -f
00:31<Valtiel>i fuck my brain 2 days
00:31<Valtiel>and nothing
00:31<dr|z3d>Valtiel: Perhaps you should have been concentrating on vnc ;)
00:32<Valtiel>why no one vnc server don't accepting connections
00:33<dr|z3d>Valtiel: Got port 5900 TCP open on your firewall?
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00:33<Valtiel>i don't run and configure firevall
00:33<kop>Valtiel : I've used Xvnc with success in the past. (Also check netstat -l output to see what your server is listening on.)
00:34<tennerbaum>dr|zrd there's no /var/apt/cache in my system, the tree would be something like /var/cache/app-install and /var/cache/app should I delete both?
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00:34<tennerbaum>dr|zrd there's no /var/apt/cache in my system, the tree would be something like /var/cache/app-install and /var/cache/apt should I delete both?
00:34<kop>dr|z3d : Wouldn't that be /var/cache/apt?
00:35<dr|z3d>tennerbaum: Doh! Mistake. /var/apt/cache is what I meant. Delete all the files there, don't touch the directory.
00:35<tennerbaum>kop it's like that in my system...
00:35<Valtiel>The connection to yhe host has been interrupted
00:35<kop>tennerbaum : Only the files.
00:35<dr|z3d>kop: It would ;)
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00:36<kop>dr|z3d : It annoys me to no end that apt won't re-create the directories.
00:37<dr|z3d>kop: Indeed. apt should also detect when its files have become corrupted, and automagically nuke 'em.
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00:38<Valtiel>if i connect on manualy port 5901
00:38<Valtiel>conntction is work
00:38<Valtiel>but on displqy 1
00:39<tennerbaum>dr|z3d there's an Archives directory inside aswell, shall I also delete it?
00:39<dr|z3d>Valtiel: I was about to say.. if you connect to ip:1 or ip:2 ... what then?
00:39<dr|z3d>tennerbaum: No! Leave that alone.
00:39<PLITS>what is the best codec pack and browser plugins for debian cant play wmc9 videos
00:39<dr|z3d>tennerbaum: Having deleted those files, do an apt-get update
00:39<dr|z3d>Or sudo apt-get update if you're not root.
00:40<Valtiel>in kubuntu a connect to standart port and i controll a display 0
00:41<Nemoder>Valtiel: perhaps what you want is the x11vnc package?
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00:41<tennerbaum>dr|z3d it says that it cant be written in var/cache/apt and also package lists could not be open
00:42<Valtiel>Nemoder: no
00:42<dr|z3d>tennerbaum: you did sudo, right?
00:42<Valtiel>i'm installing is now
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00:43*dr|z3d hmms.
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00:43<tennerbaum>there's a problem now, i open the terminal but only show a blank screen, nothing can be written on it
00:44<tennerbaum>my computer is acting weird, I cannot open the system monitor
00:44<dr|z3d>kill that terminal, open another.
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00:45<tennerbaum>rebboting... brb
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00:51<jla>Hi, I swapped a couple of debian servers about and hour ago and I am having trouble getting the new one's networking doing despite using a copy of the old system's interfaces file. The system has 7 public ip addresses bound to eth1, but only 4 (not always the same 4) are working.
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00:52<dpkg>As of version 0.090, udev has the ability to statically rename ethernet cards based on MAC address. The addresses are configured in /etc/udev/rules.d/z25_persistent-net.rules . If you want the mappings to change, edit that file. See <forcedeth mac>. As of version 0.124-1 the file is called /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules .
00:52<jla>If I ping -I<non-working> ping doesnt' see any response packets, but tshark sees packets sent and recieved.
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00:53<jla>ip rule/route shows the same routes/rules as before, and similar ones as other running systems (with different IP's of course)
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00:54<kop>jla : The interfaces are all up. (And it's not a z25 mac address problem?)
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00:55<jla>kop: yes. only 2 interfaces, they are both up. this is a eth1, eth1:1, etc work, eth1:3, eth1:4 don't work.
00:55<jla>eth1:6 and :5 work now. earlier :6 wasn't working.
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00:56<jla>I'm sure it's some dumb thing I've done, but I can't even describe the problem to search for it :)
00:56<jla>this is etch. I have done testing w/ lenny and the udev rules was something new to learn.
00:57<kop>jla : Etch uses z25 too.
00:57<jla>wow, never ran across the persistant interfaces thing in etch. maybe I didn't shuffle stuff like I did testing lenny
00:57<jla>no firewall running yet. iptables -L is empty
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00:58<kop>jla : maybe 'arp -a' will illuminate? (Or not.)
00:58<jla>I keep thinking it's some odd routing thing because tshark -ieth1 -f'host <badip>' sees traffic both directions, but any program I test with (telnet, ping) doesn't see the response
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00:59<jla>tried that too. looked normal. I'll post some stuff
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01:06<jla>kop: bah I start to get the info together including a pcap of what tshark shows and the lame ip is working. checking the next alias
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01:07<jla>maybe I'm being too impatient or need to do some gratituitous arping
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01:07<jla>but tshark sees the packets come back...
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01:09<jla>I stopped tshark a few seconds before I stopped ping so the packet counts dont match
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01:12<tennerbaum>dr|z3d it worked alright THANKS A LOT
01:12<tennerbaum>kop THANKS A LOT 2 u 2 mate
01:12<jla>yes, gratituitous arp (arping -U from iputils-arping) makes start working
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01:17<jla>kop: out of bad ip addresses so I can't test ip neigh flush all and other stuff. :) Does the fact that tshark was seeing the replies indicate it was the kernel's arp cache and not the switch? that's what I was thinking, but arp -a wasn't showing old entries for the other server (from over an hour ago now).
01:18<jla>that is why i started to suspect routing, even thought that was pretty simple
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01:24<nullman>mkinitrd doesn't seem to exist on my machine. etch.
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01:35<nullman>is a ATA hard disk your standard hard drive?
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01:46<vook>i just fell in love with linux all over again. my first olpc pc, buy one get one
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02:16<s3a>is there a way to COMPLETELY FORBID swap to be accessed until AT LEAST 90% of my RAM is used (and used does not = cached stuff)
02:17<cahoot>maybe via vm_swapiness -
02:18<s3a>cahoot, my swappiness is already set to 0
02:19<s3a>cahoot, any other ideas?
02:19<cahoot>sorry - no
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02:19<s3a>cahoot, its ok, thx anyways
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02:22<valdyn>s3a: whats the point?
02:23<s3a>valdyn, i want my computer to be only running off ram and no swap usage AT ALL unless i actually reach a huge limit or need to hibernate etc
02:24<valdyn>s3a: is swap on flash or something like that?
02:25<valdyn>s3a: you could "swapon" at a certain threshold, but i still dont entirely get your point
02:25<s3a>no, 7200 rpm drive and my point is i want it to be as fast as if i didnt have swap but i want swap there just in case i reach ram's limit and/or need to hibernate
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02:26<s3a>valdyn, like can i force swap to not be used until 90% of my ram is used up?
02:26<valdyn>s3a: i dont notice my system swapping subjectively
02:26<maverick>is there a mini distro based on debian? o_O
02:26<s3a>maverick, damn small linux
02:27<valdyn>s3a: you cant, i think, but you can try using swap prefetch
02:27<maverick>any other?
02:27<s3a>valdyn, what's that and so far i have swappiness to 0 and preload installed
02:27<valdyn>s3a: ok, i find preload useless, but thats again just subjectively, i dont benchmark..
02:28<s3a>valdyn, its not a big deal now but i have 700 mb ram used and my swap is starting swap with 8 knb filled but later it could grow and i dont c why its using swap if i have 1300 mb empty
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02:28<s3a>valdyn, preload helps A LOT actually especially on lower end comps
02:28<valdyn>s3a: swap prefetch means that your swapped out pages will be read back in as soon as theres room, instead of read back in when the app needs them
02:28<s3a>valdyn, o thats perfect!
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02:29<s3a>valdyn, how do u do that?
02:29<valdyn>s3a: i wonder that too right now, it was part of Colin Colivas patchset
02:30<s3a>valdyn, so wait... u dont no how to do it?
02:30<valdyn>s3a: i did it before, but i also found it pointless, its just a while ago, so i dont know its current status ( is it in mainline? does a patch for current kernels exist? )
02:31<s3a>valdyn, well can you point me to a guide for lenny and etch?
02:32<valdyn>2.6.22-ck1 is the last -ck ever
02:32<valdyn>guess that is its status, to bad
02:33<valdyn>s3a: how much ram on your system?
02:34<s3a>valdyn, 2 gb, soon to be 4 gb but ill be doing heavy memory usage sometimes
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02:38<s3a>valdyn, is it possible to do this swap prefetch thing?
02:39<valdyn>s3a: i see that patch only for 2.6.22 kernels
02:39<s3a>valdyn, why? did development stop?
02:39<s3a>valdyn, of the patch or whatever it is
02:39<valdyn>s3a: yes
02:40<valdyn>s3a: theres no people who could maintain it who find it actually useful
02:41<s3a>valdyn, i find it useful because for example, on my laptop i keep having to do swapoff -a && swap on -a to not get low performance
02:41<s3a>valdyn, is there not some alternative to this?
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02:42<valdyn>s3a: i dont know, there hasnt been issues for people lately so theres no new development that i know of
02:42<valdyn>s3a: contrary to say, 2 years ago
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02:45<s3a>valdyn, ok thx anyway, atleast now i no a bit of what to ask for next time and im going to sleep now
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02:53<sheldonh>s3a: on uyour laptop, do you use the laptop-mode-tools package?
02:53<sheldonh>s3a: i don't notice my laptop paging much
02:55<sheldonh>hey neat! just discovered the relatime mount option
02:57<sheldonh>is there a great metalanguage kit for managing iptables on an ipv6-enabled host?
02:57<sheldonh>(i've used firehol and shorewall, which both seem to come up short)
02:57<wnd>if you find one please let me know :-)
02:58<wnd>I'd be happy to get rid of my ancient scripts to build iptables rules and use something that someone actually maintains
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03:03<sheldonh>interestingly, shorewall turns up when you do aptitude search ~Gprotocol::ipv6~Gsecurity::firewall
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03:04<fxiny>lenny has a perl version too :)
03:04<cahoot>debian live cd builder ??
03:04<cahoot>err ++
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03:09<sheldonh>fxiny: i thought it was okay until i actually tried to use it to filter ipv6 traffic
03:09<sheldonh>fxiny: bit annoying, since that's the only reason i switched from firehol :)
03:10<fxiny>sheldonh: does it fail ?
03:10<sheldonh>fxiny: well. it fails or i fail :)
03:10<fxiny>i'm surprised cause shorewall is a nice script , checking shorewall home
03:10<sheldonh>fxiny: i do what the docs say, and my ping6 gets "Operation not permitted" but no proto 41 packets get logged
03:11<sheldonh>fxiny: it certainly seems a little more enterprisey than firehol :)
03:11<fxiny>it is
03:11<sheldonh>and certainly easier to target as a web front-end developer
03:11<fxiny>firehol is for lazy users :)
03:11<fxiny>firehole of course works
03:12<sheldonh>and for admins who want an army of drones to be able to read and modify simple rulesets
03:12<sheldonh>but i'm over that now -- armies of drones should use gui tools :)
03:12<fxiny>gui ? hahaah
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03:26<sheldonh>fxiny: i think this confirms my fears: <-- shorewall allows all or nothing, with v6
03:27<sheldonh>fxiny: so i think shorewall fails (only all or nothing) and then i also fail (not even all) :)
03:27<fxiny>sheldonh: ohh lemme see : i found some 2002 Tom Eastep "no answer" googling
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03:37<sheldonh>fxiny: it "feels like" i'm missing an entry in zones, to add my v6 interface to the net zone
03:37<fxiny>sheldonh: must be . i believe shorewall is one of the best bash script ever
03:38<sheldonh>interfaces, i meant, not zones\
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03:40<sheldonh>fxiny: maybe shorewall doesn't like interface names that start with a number. check this out:
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03:44<sheldonh>fxiny: changed the interface name to he0 (hurricane electric is my tunnel broker) and now make completes successfully. but ipt6tables -nvL shows policy DROP for all, with only ACCEPT rules for lo :)
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03:45<sheldonh>fxiny: perhaps i should backport the latest shorewall to etch
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03:46<fxiny>sheldonh: etch ?
03:46<fxiny>sheldonh: i'm looking forward for lenny *perl* shorewall
03:47<fxiny>sheldonh: i'm moving very slowly to lenny but i heard shorewall perl loads a bit faster then bash shorewall in lenny
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03:50<fxiny>valdyn: do we talk before about shorewall ? was you or someone else ?
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03:50<valdyn>fxiny: not recently
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03:50<sheldonh>fxiny: i need to do more reading about lenny and xen -- my v6 concentrator is a xen domU
03:50<fxiny>valdyn: yes not recently :)
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03:53<sheldonh>brb, must feed baby
03:53<fxiny>sheldonh: no xen here yet : i'm vulturing high looking down for some economic recession price slash :)
03:53<fxiny>i keeep my old hardware : they can sell the f* new to vista users :P
03:54<sheldonh>exactly :)
03:54<sheldonh>i just wound up my company and ended up with a miniature data centre in my house :)
03:54<sheldonh>my wife was concerned initially, but i've set up effortless fax and printing, and backuppc and a phone for her home office, so she's on board now :)
03:54<petern>bedroom isp?
03:55<sheldonh>haha, nice
03:55<fxiny>sheldonh: we should stand idling outside citigroup :)
03:55<sheldonh>in fairness to me, i've done a reasonable job of containing the mess :)
03:55<sheldonh>fxiny: do they just throw old kit away?\
03:55<petern>nildram started as a bedroom isp, heh
03:55<fxiny>sheldonh: it sounds they must :)
03:56<sheldonh>petern: but if i wanted to run my own company, i wouldn't have just wound up :)
03:56<fxiny>sheldonh: or GM : it has a target price of $0 :)
03:56<petern>true true
03:56<fxiny>digital armageddon incoming :))
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03:57<sheldonh>i keep wondering how i'll fare when there's no electricity and it all goes post apocalyptic without the apocalypse. how well will a small guy with no martial arts training and nothing but a 9mm do in that situation? i don't even know how to fix a car!
03:59<sheldonh>fxiny: google knows about something called 6wall, but it seems to have died
03:59<fxiny>2002 ?
04:00<fxiny>oops :)
04:00<sheldonh>how stupid do i look right now? ;)
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04:02<rgl>I'm trying out lenny; when I try to install openssh-server it tries to install x11 stuff, any ideia why?
04:03<sheldonh>rgl: just enough to support X11 forwarding. don't worry, it's not actually installing a display server :)
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04:04<rgl>ah x11 forward. didn't remember that (I never actually used that openssh feature *G*).
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04:08<dondelelcaro>rgl: it's actually just a Recommends: too, so if you really don't ever use it (it's pretty useful), you can remove xauth et al.
04:09<rgl>humm, my apt is installing recomands by default?
04:11<dondelelcaro>rgl: yerp; they should be installed by default
04:11<rgl>odd. need to turn that off *G*
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04:11<dondelelcaro>in general, you want recommends
04:11<dondelelcaro>in specific cases where you know you don't want one, remove it.
04:12<Scurz>For 3-4 days, I don't see the icons of my gnome desktop, what to do to fix this problem ?
04:12<rgl>but removing it afterwards is going to be more work, because I'll need to track which stuff is installed by xauth?
04:12<dondelelcaro>rgl: nope; just aptitude remove xauth; and the automatically installed packages will also be removed.
04:12<rgl>or I can remove stuff that is no longer needed?
04:13<rgl>I normally use apt-get
04:13<dondelelcaro>modern versions of apt-get support it too
04:13<dondelelcaro>though frankly, aptitude is quite a bit more powerful.
04:13<rgl>didn't do thr trick.
04:14<sheldonh>can someone who's not running a firewall manager tell me whether the policy is DROP or ACCEPT in ip6tables -nvL?
04:14<rgl>libx11-6 still installed *G*
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04:14<sheldonh>rgl: you could use aptitude's interactive mode to see what depends on libx11-6 and is installed
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04:15<dondelelcaro>loads of things depend on libx11-6
04:15<rgl>underneed I don't quite like aptitude *G*
04:15*rgl docks
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04:17<dondelelcaro>I find that most people who prefer apt-get to aptitude haven't really used aptitude
04:17<sheldonh>same here. or they think it's only interactive
04:18<rgl>indeed *G*
04:18<sheldonh>but some low-memory users really do need to stick to apt-get, i hear
04:18<cahoot>or stumbled in its interface
04:18<rgl>to be fair, its quite nice, but I prefer cli stuff (which I known aptitude has too)
04:18<dondelelcaro>well, aptitude does use more memory... but if you're in that situtation, apt-get won't be usable for you in a few releases
04:18<fxiny>i'd like to see aptitude printing full debs file names when -s installing like apt-get does
04:19<sheldonh>fxiny: probably just a wishlist bug away ;)
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04:19<fxiny>sheldonh: i think i'm singing closer to the "source" ;)
04:19<rgl>huummm why isn't apt-get usable?
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04:20<sheldonh>rgl: what do you mean?
04:20<rgl>sheldonh, dondelelcaro said its not usable for some reason
04:20<sheldonh>rgl: no, i think just that apt-get's memory usage is increasing through releases
04:20<rgl>ah I got it now. apt-get is using more memory in future.
04:20<rgl>ack :D
04:22<fxiny>memory ? does zsh "cache" really helps with apt/aptitude ?
04:22<fxiny>i'm checking zsh
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04:25<sheldonh>fxiny: yay, i have "all" working, at least :)
04:25<fxiny>sheldonh: good :)
04:26<sheldonh>fxiny: so it looks like shorewall in etch just allows you to use ipv6 to defeat firewalling :)
04:26<sheldonh>fxiny: i can't imagine they'd have bothered. i must still be missing something
04:26<valdyn>sheldonh: you actually enabled ipv6 in shorewall.conf?
04:27<sheldonh>valdyn: silly me. shorewall comes up when you aptitude search ~Gprotocol::ipv6~Gsecurity::firewall
04:27<sheldonh>valdyn: so i've been trying to use it to manage my policy for my v6 traffic too
04:27<shift-wreck>hey folks,. I'm trying to add Debian-unofficial as a repo but i'm getting a 404 on update. i'm running Lenny and it but it looks like sarge, etch, sid, or woody are my only options. what do i do?
04:27<sheldonh>valdyn: and DISABLE_IPV6 seemed to be getting in the way :)
04:27<shift-wreck><--- nooob
04:28<sheldonh>valdyn: i reckon protocol::ipv6 should be dropped from its tags until it actually offers useful support
04:29<fxiny>sheldonh: i remember having DISABLE_IPV6=No in sarge . but not why i did it , i'm reading a comment i wrote on shorewall.conf . maybe a whois problem
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04:30<fxiny>the footless admin :P
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04:31*weasel hugs ferm
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04:32<donny>hi all. i am absolutely stunned: gvim just crashed. i'm not a super-advanced user: my user scripts only change the appearance and minimal behavioral settings like indentation and code formatting. anyhow, a bug reporter dialog came up (first time i've ever had to use it) and i cannot find gvim or vim under "Show Applications" nor "Show Products"
04:32<dr|z3d>shift-wreck: You're a newb? Try Ubuntu, might suit better :)
04:32<donny>anyhow i assume this dialog is trying to give me the opportunity to send a core dump and some notes to debian maintainers -- how can i proceed?
04:33<fxiny>why ubu ? shift-wreck stay with us
04:33<sheldonh>so next stop is to try ferm. otherwise, it's back to raw iptables/ip6tables
04:33<shift-wreck>hey thanks dr|z3d
04:34<dr|z3d>shift-wreck: If it's any consolation, I'm using Ubuntu ;)
04:34<shift-wreck>ah well thanks, i think
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04:35<sheldonh>dr|z3d: i worked with a bunch of linux newbs, and they had way more problem than the newbs using debian. could have been a fluke, but i think ubuntu's too much of a moving target for newbies
04:35<dr|z3d>Fundamentally the same deal as Debian, though some might differ in that particular view.
04:35<shift-wreck>ive been using various flavors of ubuntu for about 2 years. im new to debian
04:35*dr|z3d smiles.
04:36<donny>ok, i give up
04:36<shift-wreck>im just trying to figure out the whole thing with the various versions of Debian
04:36<dr|z3d>sheldonh: You may be right. Ultimately you choose a distro, and stick with it until it doesn't do what you want, I guess. Or you just try every flavor in the shop, because you can :)
04:36<shift-wreck>its a bit confusing
04:36*fxiny being a rto13 of the fastest torpedo let shift-wreck sinking
04:37<sheldonh>shift-wreck: just use whatever's recommended from the "Getting Debian" link on the web site :)
04:37<gsimmons>shift-wreck: WRT, testing still points to "etch". You may want to use another third-party repository, such as What package(s) are you attempting to install?
04:38<sheldonh>oh goody -- there's a ferm2 backport
04:38<screenn>has anyone an experience with backup the encrypted system partitions from live cd?
04:38<shift-wreck>I just like to have most/all my options for packages there when in synaptic
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04:38<shift-wreck>so i was looking to ad unofficial
04:39<fxiny>screen: i back up my LUKS with dd
04:39<screenn>fxiny can you explain a process step by step
04:39<shift-wreck>and thanks gsimmons. you answered my question
04:40<screenn>fxiny I've used partimage for backup my system partitions before launch used dm-crypt
04:41<fxiny>screenn: yes i use partimage for my normal systems bu i do a dd full backup of my multi partioned etch LUKS
04:42<screenn>fxiny why you don't use the partimage for that?
04:43<fxiny>screenn: it cant read it
04:43<fxiny>i think
04:43<screenn>I know it can't
04:44<sheldonh>i back up the mounted filesystem from a snapshot using fsvs
04:44<sheldonh>keeps things simple :)
04:45<screenn>but I'm thinking about boot from live cd, mount encrypted partitions and make images, but when you have a works scripts for dd what can make all this automatically, I will be appreciative to know how to it's works
04:45<screenn>sheldonh I use rsnapshot
04:46<screenn>sheldonh it's can make snapshots of directories, inlude directories of remote computer over ssh
04:47<sheldonh>looks cool. but i prefer using a subversion filesystem to the hard links approach
04:47<sheldonh>on servers, i usually keep manage local backup using rdiff-backup, and then rsync the backup offsite where offsite backups are required
04:47<screenn>good solution, can you backup you system when it's works?
04:48<sheldonh>yes, because it uses lvm snapshots. i imagine this would break mysql, but i think mysql is rubbish anyway, and postgresql does a great job of recovering if you back up from a snapshot
04:50<sheldonh>(the rdiff-backup approach doesn't work for databases. i simplified my solution. i actually wrap everything up using backupninja, and backupninja has support for dumping mysql and postgresql databases)
04:50<weasel>postgres you want to backup using WALs anyway
04:50<screenn>I mean, when I use partimage or dd for example, it can't backup work system partition, right?
04:50<sheldonh>weasel: yeah, if you can't afford to lose data, that's the way to go
04:51<weasel>even if that's not a hard requirements WALs are nice
04:51<weasel>(point in time recovery)++
04:51<fxiny>screenn: dd if=/dev/hdxx | gzip > crypto_hdxx.gz . to replace it : gzip -dc crypto_hdxx.gz | dd of=/dev/hdxx
04:51<fxiny>classic dd
04:51<sheldonh>weasel: has that approach become bulletproof? it wasn't circa 7.1, when last i looked
04:51<weasel>works just fine on 8.2 or 8.3
04:52<sheldonh>weasel: i'd probably use wal exports all the time if i trusted them
04:52<sheldonh>weasel: i'd just have to get over "but it's a binary format that i can't fix if there's a problem", which is one of the things plaintext dumps have going for them
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04:52<screenn>fxiny are you sure it will works when my system is down, from live cd?
04:53<weasel>sheldonh: I like having both
04:53<sheldonh>hmmm. i wish i would just learn to consider "both" as an option automatically :)
04:54<sheldonh>both would be perfect
04:54<screenn>rsnapshot has an options to add a scripts
04:55<weasel>rsnapshot is just an ugly rsync wrapper,
04:55<fxiny>screenn: yes it will , provided you mount a partition for dumping the gz . i do not use any live cd cause i have two hd and two etch , i will install a small "maintenance" system in lenny just for backups
04:55<screenn>scripts like that for example - /usr/bin/mysqldump -uroot mydatabase > mydatabase.sql
04:55<weasel>rdiff-backup is nice too, but slow on my systems for some reason
04:55<sheldonh>weasel: do you use noatime or relatime?
04:55<fxiny>i'm told i can use an initram for this
04:56<weasel>sheldonh: noatime.
04:56<sheldonh>so it's not that, then :)
04:56<weasel>no, it's not :)
04:56<sheldonh>lots and lots of files? :)
04:57<fxiny>screenn: i starded my LUKS for fun so i'm not into some pretty backups apps , dd is stupid : it reads dump everything
04:58<sheldonh>what happened to dump? it seemed like such a good idea
04:58<fxiny>i had a go with dump as well
04:58<screenn>fxiny ok I will try your dd script first, and then try to use fsvs
04:59<fxiny>screenn: is your system full encrypted ?
04:59<fxiny>screenn: is swap included ?
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05:00<weasel>sheldonh: the interesting thing is that rdiff-backup is orders of magnitude slower than a simple rsync run
05:00<screenn>no, I just have unencrypted /boot partition for boot
05:00<weasel>it may be that rdiff-backup is just crazy with round trips, but I never had the time to look into it
05:00<screenn>sheldonh what kind of options you use with fsvs?
05:01<fxiny>so its' fine . boot can't be encrypted and who cares anyway ? mine is on old dear ext2
05:01<fxiny>screenn: ahh i forgot : i do not back up my home
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05:02<screenn>you can have your boot partition on flush memory, right?
05:02<saintk>Hi everyone, is it me, or is there an issue with the weekly builds? I want to download lenny, but all of the directories are empty?
05:03<screenn>fxiny why you didn't backup your home?
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05:03<fxiny>screenn: / home and swap are encrypted , mine is a cloned system in a LUKS layer
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05:04<saintk>Weekly build status Last updated: 17th October 2007 - that doesn't seem right. Does anyone have an alternate source? cause i should be going to the datacenter today for a Lenny install
05:04<screenn>saintk you are not only one who waiting for the answer -
05:04<screenn>I've mailed to mailing list and waiting for answer why jigdo files isn't found yet
05:05<saintk>ai ai ai, that is really bad. Anyone happen to have an alternate source? Cause i have a urgent issue i need to fix :0
05:05<fxiny>screenn: why i should backup encrypted data ? gpg can hadle files much better so i don't care . all i need is my system backups
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05:07<saintk>ah cheers, thanks alot!
05:07<saintk>you saved my day
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05:10<screenn>saintk 04-Nov-2008, too old like for me
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05:10<screenn>where is the weeklies?
05:10<weasel>not there.
05:10<weasel>what's wrong with rc1?
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05:12<screenn>weasel seems nobody knows
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05:13<weasel>screenn: will be back shortly
05:13<shift-wreck>well it took some doin but i got debian-unofficial repo added. i had to use the 2007 PGP key though. is that ok?
05:14<weasel>why would you want that repository anyway
05:14<shift-wreck>idk, why not?
05:14<shift-wreck>wanted opera and jre and the like
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05:15<weasel>opera you can get from .. opera themselves.
05:15<shift-wreck>ok so i ask again, why not?
05:15<weasel>jre is in debian, isn't it?
05:15<shift-wreck>so why would i not want that repo?
05:16<weasel>that also explains why. you don't add stuff if you don't need it. and external stuff is by definition of questionably quality so you want to keep what you get from there to a minimum.
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05:16<weasel>the more they offer in the same repository the worse.
05:16<shift-wreck>i see.
05:16<fxiny>a repo for a single deb like opera ?
05:16<shift-wreck>makes sense.
05:16<shift-wreck>thats why i asked
05:16<weasel>fxiny: opera is apt-get able from opera.
05:17<weasel>deb etch non-free
05:17<fxiny>weasel: i did not know it , not using it so much
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05:18<shift-wreck>so then i shouldn't be using it then. i'll comment it out for now.
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05:20<fxiny>weasel: and about jre i can tell my experience : long ago i wanted to play with update alternatives so i installed sun bin . everything fine . but now this box gonna be updated to lenny so i regret it . sticking to official debs is better
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05:22<fxiny>a qestion arise : in case i have an app in /usr/local and i leave it there . does trhe official debian takes over if i install the equivalent deb ?
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05:25<oskie>how do you enable use of debian -dbg packages? I see .so files are installed to /usr/lib/debug
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05:30<Gathond>oskie: the debian gdb and friends should do it automatically
05:30<Gathond>oskie: so if you start a program for debugging and the -dbg files are there those are used in place of the normal ones
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05:34<oskie>Gathond: hm, it doesn't seem to work.. it still links with the non-dbg file. ldconfig -v doesn't show the dbg files at all
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05:35<oskie>Gathond: I was wondering if I had to add /usr/lib/debug/usr/lib (!) to some etc file?
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05:39<valdyn>oskie: are you starting the program with gdb?
05:39<oskie>valdyn: yeah.. maybe that's enough?
05:40<valdyn>oskie: if you see names in the traces
05:40<oskie>valdyn: we'll see next time rtorrent crashes in curl :)
05:40<valdyn>oskie: are you debugging debians rtorrent?
05:41<oskie>valdyn: svn version of rtorrent
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05:42*oskie wonders what the performance benefits of amd64 are compared to i386 when you have 8GB of memory
05:43<dr|z3d>oskie: >2GB ram per application is one benefit.
05:43<dr|z3d>Natively, without hackery.
05:43<oskie>dr|z3d: hmm, true
05:44<dr|z3d>Same might be said of ram support. >4GB natively, when you go 64bit.
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05:45<oskie>going from i386 to amd64 means complete reinstall i assume :(
05:45-!-kentoo [] has joined #debian
05:46<dr|z3d>oskie: Quite possibly, but you might like to research that assumption a little more before you take it as gospel ;)
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05:50<Garp>Question (not a debian one): I've an old Epson Stylus // port printer that doesnt work properly any more. I would like to convert it to something else. Is there a known way to hack into its firmware (linux based, of course)? Where should I go to get such informations? Thanks .
05:51<dr|z3d>Garp: Answer (not a debian one): Google is your friend.
05:51<Garp>dr|z3d: I googled a bitalready, the only thing I found is a proprioetary tool to hack intpo the epson counters (
05:52<Garp>dr|z3d: could you suggest me a better channel to ask this?
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05:53<Garp>dr|z3d: it has much to do with hardware hacking and little to do with debian, I know, but... There should be hackers here ;)
05:53<dr|z3d>Garp: It's a bit of an obscure question, I wasn't trying to be overly facetious.
05:53<oskie>dpkg --force-depends --force-architecture --force-overwrite -i libc6-i386_2.5-9_amd64.deb
05:53<dpkg>oskie: You are moron #9
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05:53<oskie>hah, that seems to be a stupid way to upgrade to amd64
05:53<Garp>oskie: :)
05:55<Garp>dr|z3d: yeah, I know it's a bit obscure... maybe only epson knows... I dont even know if the firmware is upgradable from the printer connection...
05:55<Garp>dr|z3d: I had a look on the motherboard and most chips are labbeled as epson, so likely no public datasheet either.
05:56<Garp>dr|z3d: spent quite some time last night on that :(
05:56<dr|z3d>Garp: Don't give up, that's my first advice.
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05:57<dr|z3d>Garp: And do give the net a good frisking.. sometimes obscure stuff, is, well, obscure.. takes some digging out :)
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05:58<Garp>dr|z3d :) Thanks. I'll try again. I'll post on usenet/forum, I got a reference to the maintenace manual of Epson, but it was scanned and the electronic diagram was blured out (very thin lines and lots of chips: resolutionw asnt enough), but I may ask epson directy: who kniows, that's pretty old stuff, maybe they donc care any more.
05:59<dr|z3d>Garp: Good luck in your hunt! May it prove fruitful :)
06:01<Garp>Thanks, I have to go now, but I'll let you know... well maybe in a few month! (dont have much time to spare and likely quite some effort if ever).
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06:02<Garp>bye everybody.
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06:07<lin_1_>hi, how can i check for hd bad clusters in debian? thanks
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06:09<Nemoder>lin_1_: fsck will scan for filesystem errors
06:09<lin_1_>Nemoder: ok thanks
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06:10<lin_1_>Nemoder: btw... but fs is not physical, if i am not wrong... while clusters are
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06:15<funyun>i purchased a dedicated server with 2 Nic's running debian. how do i switch to the other Nic?
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06:16<dpkg>As of version 0.090, udev has the ability to statically rename ethernet cards based on MAC address. The addresses are configured in /etc/udev/rules.d/z25_persistent-net.rules . If you want the mappings to change, edit that file. See <forcedeth mac>. As of version 0.124-1 the file is called /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules .
06:16<fxiny>funyun: ^^^
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06:18<weasel>fxiny: edit /etc/network/interfaces?
06:20<funyun>fxiny: what do i do from there. sorry, i'm a noob
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06:20<weasel>nothing, just edit network/interfaces
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06:27<fxiny>weasel: right
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06:28<funyun>weasel: how should i edit it to look?
06:29<weasel>funyun: weird setup you have there.
06:29<weasel>funyun: do you want only one, or do you want to use both?
06:29<weasel>funyun: right now you appear to be using eth0 only, even tho eth1 has some weird config
06:29<weasel>or you appear to be using both, only not properly
06:29<funyun>weasel: yes, i want both
06:29<weasel>then you want to setup bonding
06:30<weasel>install the ifenslave-2.6 package to start with
06:30<weasel>add "bonding" to your /etc/modules
06:30<funyun>is it easier to use one than to setup bonding?
06:31<weasel>is what easier to use?
06:31<weasel>then configure your network as described in /usr/share/doc/ifenslave-2.6/README.Debian
06:32<weasel>(note that the interface is called bond0, and that you have the slaves line)
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06:34<funyun>how do i just switch to eth1 instead of bonding?
06:34<weasel>1) you don't want to bring up eth0, remove it from the auto statement
06:35<weasel>2) eth1 wants a default gateway line too
06:35<weasel>and maybe a nameservers entry, if you use those
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06:39<funyun>weasel: remove nameservers entry?
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06:40<funyun>weasel: so it should look like this?
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07:38<weasel>funyun: for instance
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08:13<plugwash>are there any debian architectures where int is not 32 bit? and if so which ones are they?
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08:20<apostle>Where do I get the latest information that belongs in the source.list file?
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08:23<alephnull>!tell apostle about sources
08:24<adonis28850>hi people i have a problem, i can reproduce .mp3 and all kind of sounds, but when i open a java application no sounds..?¿for example i play in to chess, but i cant listen anyone sound!
08:29<apostle>alephnull, where can I get the latest one? the ones I put in did not install the latest software
08:29<stew>apostle: which software?
08:30<apostle>steev, totem, firefox etc...
08:30<apostle>stew, totem firefox .etc.....
08:30<stew>apostle: what version of debian are you running?
08:30<apostle>stew, etch
08:31<apostle>stew, I installed from a cd net installer and I believe I must have used the wrong source.list entries
08:31<stew>apostle: firefox doesn't easily backport to etch, becuase the newer gtk doesn't backport easily
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08:31<stew>apostle: same with totem
08:32<apostle>stew, awwww so debian is not the latest
08:32<daemon>hey all how would I roll back the xorg-intel drivers package to the previous one
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08:32<stew>apostle: etch was frozen 2 years ago
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08:33<apostle>stew, oh what is the latest version of Debian?
08:33<apostle>stew, checking website now
08:34<stew>apostle: etch was the most recently released
08:34<stew>apostle: lenny will be the next to be released, it is the current 'testing' branch
08:35<apostle>stew, oh so can you upgrade things in etch or should I wait for lenny?
08:35<apostle>stew how would I upgrade to latest software?
08:37<Lethalman>apostle: you can do both
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08:37<stew>apostle: for many things, you can use backports: "/msg dpkg backports", however totem and iceweasel are not easily backported. you can wait for lenny, or you can upgrade now, keeping in mind that it is not yet released becuase it is known to have release critical bugs
08:38<apostle>stew thanks so much for the would I upgrade totem? I guess I would not use aptitude
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08:41<stew>apostle: you'd upgrade to lenny aka testing
08:41<tosmo>after boot i get an i/o error when trying to run scanimage as unprivileged user. (but it works fine for root). after reconnecting the usbcable, everything works as expected. any idea what's the problem? restarting udev instead of reconnecting the calbe does not help
08:42<apostle>stew, thanks I will do so now I appreciate your direction :)
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08:42<stew>apostle: "/msg dpkg lenny release notes"
08:43<stew>apostle: the release notes have the upgrade instructions
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08:48<plugwash>hmm the link dpkg (the bot not the package manager) gives me for the lenny release notes only seems to have one chapter not the complete release notes
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08:54<GoldElite>I know Lenny has critical bugs, but d'you think it's good enough for use for a general user? It works fine for me, but I wonder if there's any reason Etch would more be appropriate for my younger brother?
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08:56<abrotman>GoldElite: which linux is he using now?
08:56<GoldElite>He's not....Windows....He liked the Ubuntu Live CD, but his computer is too underpowered for that distro, so I've convinced him to use Debian
08:57<GoldElite>(If there aer any problems, I can help through ssh :D)
08:57<amphi>GoldElite: lenny's been working well for me, for long
08:57<abrotman>GoldElite: lenny will probably be fine
08:58<abrotman>GoldElite: how slow is his computer?
08:58<GoldElite>Err....1GHz Single-core, Intel mobo-graphics card, 256MB RAM....
08:59<abrotman>can't big-bro spare some cash for an extra 256MB? :)
08:59<abrotman>i'd think that would run debian pretty well .. maybe not with gnome/kde .. but they shuld work too
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09:00<GoldElite>Haha, it looks like he's in arrangements with one of his friends for a computer, so I'm not stepping in just yet!
09:00<abrotman>though i used to run gnome perfectly fine in 256MB .. and people tell me kde runs fine in the same
09:00<GoldElite>Hmmm....what would you suggest? I haven't had much experience with the non-mainstream window managers
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09:02<abrotman>many people recommend xfce for not-quite-fast-enough systems
09:03<daemon>Xfce is good on fast systems too
09:03<dpkg>xwinman is probably probably - Look here for a lot of popular window managers with somewhat recent screenshots and descriptions/links and decide which one works best for you... or TRY THEM ALL!
09:03<daemon>just it is lighter than gnome and kde :)
09:03<abrotman>or have him pick one
09:03<Axl_newbie>hello there does anybody help me with starnge debian problem?
09:03<plugwash>are there any debian architectures where int is not 32 bit? and if so which ones are they?
09:03<abrotman>daemon: that was my point
09:04<GoldElite>abrotman: Thanks; installing XFCE for a test-run now
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09:10<daemon>How do I rollback Xorg and xorg-drivers-intel to the previous version
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09:11<abrotman>which version of debian ? you likely need to visit
09:11<daemon>abrotman, lenny
09:11<daemon>Linux laptop1 2.6.26-1-686 #1 SMP Sat Nov 8 19:00:26 UTC 2008 i686 GNU/Linux
09:12<abrotman>daemon: downgrade why?
09:12<daemon>abrotman, bug with the intel video drviers
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09:12<abrotman>but .. the intel driver hasn't been updated in over three weeks
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09:12<daemon>abrotman, I have an asus eeepc, it worked perfectly after a set of updates that I believe Xorg was in after a random amount of time, 1 hour under hevy load 6-8 hours under light load
09:12<daemon>X will exit with an error message like:
09:13<daemon>wanted 4, got 32
09:13<daemon>then gdm will try restarting 10 or so times
09:13<daemon>then give up
09:13<daemon>have to reboot for it to work normally, when I tried vesa
09:13<abrotman>did you ask the eeepc channel?
09:13<daemon>ok the resolution is horrible but I laoded it to the hilt
09:13<daemon>multiple java instances 4 diffrent web browsers
09:13<daemon>everything, didnt crash
09:13<daemon>abrotman, they dont know -_- even though only one person answered me
09:14<daemon>it seems no one else reported this problem
09:14<abrotman>did you check the BTS?
09:14<abrotman>!btssmite daemon
09:14*dpkg beats daemon around the head repeatedly with and apt-listbugs, along with a chainsaw if daemon is running Unstable
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09:14<daemon>oh bug track
09:14<daemon>not used to it being called BTS sorry :)
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09:23<GoldElite> is it really necessary to compile XFCE from source, or can I just not find it in apt-cache search?
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09:24<Maulkin>GoldElite: The latter
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09:24<GoldElite>Maulkin: I thought as much =\ Any idea what the package is named?
09:25<abrotman>xfce or xfce4
09:25<GoldElite>Hmm...I installed xfce4, but can't find any way to activate XFCE. I sure I'm being a bit stupid here
09:25<Maulkin>What's your login manager?
09:26<GoldElite>Yes =S
09:26<GoldElite>What's Lenny's default?
09:26<GoldElite>Oh, of course!
09:26<Maulkin>gdm, probably
09:26<GoldElite>I totally forgot you could change it when you log in -- I was looking to start it from the Terminal....
09:27<abrotman>or you could use Xnest or whatever that gnomey thing is to do a new login in a window
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09:28<GoldElite>Yeah, that's something else I've been meaning to ask -- whenever I try that now (it was fine on my Etch install), I get a "X Server failed. Perhaps it is not configured well" error =\
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09:31<phrhd>hi there...i looking for a kernel option in the configuration menu (menuconfig)
09:31<GoldElite382>Well, XFCE just failed
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09:32<kurumin>oi galera
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09:32<phrhd>i want to siable Aggressive powersaving on Hd sound
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09:32<phrhd>i tried the search function, but didn't find it
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09:33<GoldElite382>amphi: Switched to XFCE4.4 to log in, and it gave me a blank screen on log in, in return. Couldn't do anything but ctrl+alt+backspace....
09:33<phrhd>or could it be that it is a debian patch?
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09:34<phrhd>because i was working with the debian sources and now switched to vanilla
09:34<amphi>GoldElite382: X works at all? what happens if you do xinit from a VT?
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09:35<GoldElite382>"Warning: process set to priority -1 instead of requested priority 0", and "Fatel server error: Server is already active for display 0, etc..."
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09:36<amphi>GoldElite382: try 'xinit -- :1'
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09:39<GoldElite382>Oh hey, that's cool. I didn't realise you could run X on a different terminal
09:39<amphi>GoldElite382: so xinit works? you get the stippled bg and a term?
09:39<GoldElite382>amphi: But it's just giving me the standard before-the-login-screen-is-loaded grey screen with an X for a cursor
09:39<GoldElite382>No, just the background, no terminal
09:40<amphi>you need to install xterm then, I guess
09:40<amphi>that's 'raw' X with no window manager
09:40<GoldElite382>Ahh, doing now, thanks
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09:41<GoldElite382>amphi:'s already at the newest version, apparently...
09:41<amphi>odd - xinit starts an xterm here
09:42<amphi>in any case, your X config seems ok if that works
09:42<amphi>if you kill that X session, and try 'startx -- :1', what happens?
09:43<GoldElite382>Same thing :(
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09:44<amphi>hmm... if you put 'xterm' in ~/.xsession and do that again, do you get a term?
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09:46<GoldElite382>Still nothing. Is it weird that I didn't have an .xsession file?
09:46<phrhd>if i would want to have a soft-realtime system for playing a midi keyboard without latency, wouldn't it be a good idea to activate irq balancing in the kernel config?
09:47<amphi>GoldElite382: no, that's not weird (unless you previously made one)
09:47<amphi>GoldElite382: you have a ~/.xinitrc ?
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09:48<GoldElite382>Apparently not; add xterm there?
09:48<apostle>what is the aptitude command for open office
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09:49<GoldElite382>amphi: Score!
09:49<phrhd>apt-cache search openoffice?
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09:49<apostle>phrhd, thanks you
09:49<amphi>GoldElite382: what happens if you do 'startxfce4 &' in the term?
09:50<phrhd>try man aptitude...
09:51<GoldElite382>amphi: YAY! Thanks =D
09:51<amphi>so it works like that, but not from startx ...
09:52<GoldElite382>Ahh, but if I could only get the terminal by putting xterm in the .xinitrc file, surely I just replace that with startxfce4 &, right?
09:53<amphi>you could; it's more normal to put it in ~/.xsession and use startx
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09:54<GoldElite382>amphi: Computer says no
09:55<GoldElite382>So far, it only seems to work when started from xterm
09:56<mady>i need hepl
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09:57<amphi>GoldElite382: that makes it usable, but is hardly satisfactory
09:57<GoldElite382>Yeah =(
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09:58<GoldElite382>mady: That's a lot of text. What's the problem?
09:58<phrhd>hey GoldElite, what was you problem again (wasn't on back then)?
09:58<phrhd>ahh ok
09:58<GoldElite382>phrhd: Can't get XFCE working except from an xterm in a new x session
09:58<GoldElite382>Solved, but hardly satisfactory
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09:59<phrhd>do you have a loginmanager installed?
09:59<GoldElite382>I'll say yes, because I have to log in somehow, but no idea otherwise
10:00<phrhd>did you install debian without a desktop environment?
10:00<GoldElite382>Oh, I'm running Gnome, but I wanted to test XFCE partially because I want to try it, and partially because my brother's computer might benefit from a lighter window manager
10:00<petern>graphical login manager, that'll be, heh
10:01<phrhd> way to make gdm see that there is xfce?
10:01<abrotman>GoldElite382: if you use gdm, you can choose your session
10:02<phrhd>yes, did you try that?
10:02<GoldElite382>Last time I did that, it crashed and I had to ctrl+alt+backspace
10:02<GoldElite382>Although I did try XFCE4, I'll try again with XFCE. If I disappear, it didn't work =P
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10:02<phrhd>did it say why?
10:02<abrotman>GoldElite382: how did you install xfce ?
10:03<GoldElite382>sudo apt-get install xfce4
10:03<phrhd>what are you doing?
10:03<GoldElite382>I tried building it from source, but that failed
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10:03<phrhd>why from source?
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10:03<abrotman>!why aptitude
10:03<dpkg>aptitude has more advanced conflict/dependency resolution than other tools, it has far more advanced searching available, and will automatically uninstall unneeded dependencies, read /usr/share/doc/aptitude/README for more info. Aptitude can also remove or purge one package at the same time as installing others all from the command line, making it much easier to recover from broken dependencies.
10:03<abrotman>GoldElite382: when you start your computer, do you get a GUI login manager? or just a console?
10:04<GoldElite382>phrhd: Because I hadn't remembered that the login manager let you change window managers X)
10:04<GoldElite382>abrotman: GUI
10:04<abrotman>GoldElite382: so did you try using GDM to pick xfce ?
10:04<phrhd>did the source build install anything?
10:04<GoldElite382>abrotman: Yeah (And I thought aptitude was slightly broken in Lenny...or am I terribly mistaken?)
10:05<abrotman>i use aptitude all the time
10:05<phrhd>just use apt then....
10:05<GoldElite382>phrhd: It failed on one of the modules (can't remember which)
10:05<GoldElite382>phrhd: Yeah, that's my installer of choice
10:05<abrotman>you really should use aptitude
10:05<apostle>Does Debian not release things with the latest because they are more strict on the software really not crashing...take open office for Ubuntu it does not but crash but what about Open Office
10:06<phrhd>ok, so could it be that the failed installation from source screwed up something?
10:06<abrotman>!tell apostle about meaning of stable
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10:07<apostle>abrotman, wow
10:07<apostle>abrotman, is that is really interesting
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10:11<apostle>abrotman, that is really interesting
10:11<abrotman>is that sarcasm ?
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10:12<apostle>abrotman, no way not at all
10:13<abrotman>is that sarcasm ?
10:13<apostle>abrotman, I had been using Ubuntu and evolution calendar crashes open office impress crashes
10:13-!-r3r3 [] has joined #debian
10:13<apostle>abrotman, I am trying to crash open office on debian and so far so good
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10:16<badan>Hi. my sound works only if I'm root, and only in applications started by root. How is it possible to correct this? Thank you!
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10:17<valdyn>badan: add your user to the audio group
10:17<badan>here is what it says whe I execute alsamixer:
10:17<badan>alsamixer: function snd_ctl_open failed for default: No such device
10:17<apostle>abrotman, what are you running right now Debian Etch?
10:17<badan>valdyn: yes, I'm in audio group also
10:17<abrotman>on this machine, lenny
10:18<valdyn>badan: you need to relogin after adding yourself to the audio group
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10:18<apostle>abrotman, is lenny stable?
10:18<badan>valdyn: I did this, still no success :(
10:18<abrotman>no, etch is stable, lenny is testing
10:19<badan>valdyn: should this group be primary?
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10:36<phrhd>could anyone tell me what it means, i i get the following after a kernel configuration: /boot/config-2.6.26-1-686:1879:warning: symbol value 'm' invalid for IWL4965
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11:14<apostle>whereis sed package?
11:15<abrotman>!tell apostle about search
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11:33<DarkBar>hello i have a small problem
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11:34<DarkBar>cant get my usb cam to work under debian its logitech cam lsusb says Bus 001 Device 007: ID 046d:08f6 Logitech, Inc.
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11:35<DarkBar>i tried quickcam and gspca and still nothing there is no /dev/video0
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11:39<DarkBar>could any one help me
11:39<GoldElite>I'm having a look, but am having trouble getting my own webcam working =\
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11:40<abrotman>which version of debian ?
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11:45<cahoot>err sorry
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11:55<DarkBar>i found some tutorial
11:56<DarkBar>it want me to install apt-get install xawtv camorama
11:56<abrotman>DarkBar: my kernel says that usb id is a usb sound card
11:56<DarkBar>and this pc cam is plugged to doesnt have vga card and they want xorg;]
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11:57<DarkBar>its a cam logitech Quickcam Messenger
11:57<abrotman>snd-usb-audio 0x0183 0x046d 0x08f6 0x0000 0x0000 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x01 0x01 0x00 0x0
11:58<DarkBar>my pc with debian only have wifi card/ ethernet card and not working camera plugged;]
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11:58<abrotman>oh whoops .. ignore that
11:58<DarkBar>its an old mb with no intrgrated sound
11:58<abrotman>m-a a-i qc-usb-source ?
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11:59<DarkBar>qc usb not working
11:59<DarkBar>or im doing something wrong
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12:00<DarkBar>i go to /<dir with extracted source> and make make install depmod -ae
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12:00<DarkBar>camera not working
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12:01<DarkBar>and it needs xawtv
12:01<DarkBar>to make
12:01<DarkBar>\xaw tv needx xorg to work
12:01<DarkBar>this pc is to weak for xorg and no vga card ;]
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12:03<GoldElite>Well, Xawtv is a GUI app, but shouldn't be required for webcam access...
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12:03<abrotman>judd: versions qc-usb-source
12:03<judd>abrotman: qc-usb-source -- etch: 0.6.6-1 lenny: 0.6.6-6 sid: 0.6.6-6
12:04<abrotman>DarkBar: do you have non-free/contrib sources available ?
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12:06<DarkBar>i quess not
12:07<abrotman>you need them
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12:19<DarkBar>its not working
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12:21<abrotman>DarkBar: do you have non-free/contrib sources available ?
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12:21<henry>i have the problem
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12:22<screenn>henry what kind of problem, is it with debian or something else?
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12:28<screenn>anybody use debian menu in gnome menu?
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12:29<screenn>stupid situation, I can't add debian menu in gnome menu, though the menu package is installed
12:30<GoldElite>screenn: What's Debian Menu?
12:30<screenn>gnome menu -> debian ->
12:31<screenn>in the main menu on gnome panel I mean
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12:32<screenn>I can't find the configure bottom for that in gnome-control-center
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12:33<adb> run it in a terminal
12:33<screenn>configure button absent, though before I remember it had been there
12:34<screenn>in the terminal, what?
12:34<adb> gnome-control-center
12:34<screenn>I have gnome-control-center, but don't have a menu configure key in there
12:34<screenn>don't know why
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12:35<screenn>do you have a key for configure menu in the gnome-control-center?
12:35<adb>not on gnome-core
12:35<screenn>I don't use gnome-core
12:36<abrotman>the debian menu went away in lenny
12:36<GoldElite>I've got it in gnome-control-center....I'm running Lenny
12:36<screenn>just gnome-panel with some app's
12:36<screenn>abrotman really?
12:36<abrotman>i don't have a debian menu in gnome either
12:36<screenn>abrotman why menu package still yet in Lenny?
12:37<abrotman>packages still use the menu system, but the all-encompassing Debian menu is gone
12:37<abrotman>but many apps still put items in the menus .. even qt/kde apps
12:37<screenn>I have a debian menu in icewm
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12:39<Anouk>necesito ayuda para instalar debain con una targeta de red intel 4965 agn
12:40<screenn>abrotman so, if it isn't used anymore, I'll create my own menu in gnome menu, I haven't a choices ;)
12:40<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
12:40<abrotman>screenn: works for me!
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12:41<screenn>abrotman what you mean?
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12:41<abrotman>if you create your own entry
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12:42<screenn>did you create your own?
12:42<screenn>when you did, can you show a snapshot's how it's looks?
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12:45<screenn>abrotman I've deleted many unusefull botoms from there with "edit menu" option
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12:46<screenn>just still log out and shut down :)
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12:48<screenn>abrotman do you know, why debian menus were removed from Lenny?
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12:51<screenn>good, ape files is plays in Lenny
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13:19<luser>i need install debian in a laptot, but i dont know the version, ia64 or i386
13:19<luser>can help my?
13:19<abrotman>it's not ia64
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13:20<abrotman>it's either i386 or amd64
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13:20<luser>the cpu is a intel c2d t8300
13:20<abrotman>it's either i386 or amd64
13:21<cahoot>luser: stick to 386
13:21<abrotman>last i knew .. every major bit of "go with i386" had been resolved
13:21<benjamingoodger>I believe the C2D is an amd64 chip
13:22<cahoot>abrotman: I got the impression not much is gained on a laptop with 64bit
13:22<abrotman>cahoot: but at this point, nothing seems lost
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13:23<cahoot>(well not lost)
13:23<benjamingoodger>memory leak for the win
13:24<benjamingoodger>killing and restarting pidgin halves its memory usage.. ¬.¬
13:24<luser>thanks i install i386
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13:27<benjamingoodger>while killing and restarting firefox drops its memory usage by 65%
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13:46<DarkBar>anyone using motion?
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13:46<DarkBar>and know how to make it output only mpeg
13:46<DarkBar>it outputs now avi and jpeg and mper
13:46<DarkBar>its kinda sux
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13:58<mossmoss>i have an usb headset
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13:58<mossmoss>i believe it uses snd-usb-audio. i tried "rmmod snd-usb-audio" but got a message that the module was in use.
13:59<mossmoss>any way i can force unload of this module as i cant see what could be using it.
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14:10<trekdanne>why would you like to unload it in the first place
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14:17<cahoot>mossmoss: try fuser -v /dev/snd/* /dev/dsp* to see what's using the device
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14:18<mossmoss>heh. nothing
14:18<mossmoss>gues it worked
14:18<cahoot>mossmoss: and.. it's modprobe -r not rmmod now
14:18<mossmoss>oh... guess the tut i read was outdated
14:18<mossmoss>...with or w/o the "now" at the end?
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14:21<axsd9d>hi a0x
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14:22<axsd9d>wats the idea behind ur nick??
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14:23<wanderlust>! server
14:23<dpkg>from memory, server is the main-computer in a network of computers. It sends out data to the other computers and it also has data on it. the person who brings you food at cheap restaurants.
14:23<dpkg>one warez list being sent to wanderlust
14:23<dpkg>one warez list being sent to wanderlust
14:23<wanderlust>! list
14:23<dpkg>one warez list being sent to wanderlust
14:24<kop>wanderlust : You can /msg dpkg instead of using !, to reduce channel spam.
14:24<axsd9d>! list
14:24<dpkg>one warez list being sent to axsd9d
14:24<dpkg>one warez list being sent to axsd9d
14:25<metalqga>!kick wanderlust
14:25*dpkg kicks wanderlust in the ass.
14:25<cahoot>obviously sunday
14:25<abrotman>leave the bot alone
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14:28<metalqga>can I make a software raid1 for my home partition?
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14:38<rgl>metalqga, sure, why not?
14:39<metalqga>on a running system, not a fresh install?
14:40<metalqga>i'm reading a howto, but haven't got to the part about it..
14:40<metalqga>oh "All the data on the two drives we use for testing will be erased. Any drive that may be used in the future to replace a drive that has failed MUST be clean"
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14:49<kop>metalqga : You should be able to do it on a per-partition basis, an entire drive is not required.
14:50<kop>metalqga : (This is where lvm is handy for dynamically allocating partitions.)
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14:52<metalqga>yes I need just the home partition to be backed up
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14:56<metalqga>found a better howto, with a witty idea "Setup RAID 1declaring disk-one 'missing' and disk-two hdc." copy the data then format the first partition, and then add it to the raid... That seems doable!
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15:05<simonrvn>metalqga: yeh, pretty standard actually. raid howto on has some ideas ;)
15:06-!-eljefe [] has joined #debian
15:06<metalqga>currently reading this one
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15:10<Alman>Bonjour ici. Où suis-je ?
15:10<simonrvn>on irc
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15:11<Alman>excuse : c'est la première fois avec ubuntu et donc la première fois avec xtchat !
15:11<simonrvn>/join #ubuntu
15:11<Alman>j'ai cliqué quelque part et me voilà lol
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15:11<panv>i wrote a php script and i want to try it on my debian system. anybody can help please ?
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15:12<Alman>ok , merci simonrvn
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15:12<s_i_m>panv, run it with the interpreter
15:13<panv>it's just the first time. i need a help here.. what is the interpreter ?
15:13<panv>i wrote it in a text editor
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15:14<simonrvn>the interpreter would be mod_php, php-cgi or php-cli, depending on where you want to run it
15:15-!-Alman [] has joined #debian
15:15<panv>i need a little bit of guideline please.
15:15<metalqga>that or $ cp -axu /home/metalqga /hdd/backup :P
15:15<Alman>comment je vais, svp, pour aller sur epiknet (linux)?
15:16-!-eljefe [] has joined #debian
15:16<dpkg>Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debian-fr sur French users: for help in french, please go to #debian-fr on
15:16<panv>simonrvn, are you still here ?
15:16<simonrvn>Alman: choisis leur serveur dans la "server list" d'xchat
15:16<simonrvn>panv: no, i'm not. just a figment of your imagination.
15:17<panv>can you help me please ?
15:17<simonrvn>what's confusing about that?
15:18<panv>i just don't know how to do it.
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15:18<panv>i don't know if i need to setup a server...
15:18<panv>i am working locally...
15:18<panv>how do i reach the file >?
15:18<panv>it is ??
15:18<simonrvn>well, if you want to run it via the web, you do, yes.
15:18<simonrvn>for example
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15:20<panv>i am not sure i get the ideal
15:20<panv>thnx.. i will sort it out.
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15:24<metalqga>ok, bye!
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15:47<Guest316>is mount.cifs not respecting the port= option for more than one mount for anyone there?
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15:49<Guest316>I'm mounting smb shares forwarded by ssh -L's "tunnels", but while the first mount works fine (it uses a non standard port to connect to the server) the second seems to ignore the "port" option, and simply tries to conenct to the same port as the other mount used
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15:55<fred_>hi all
15:55<fred_>I have an issue with Samba - anyone good with this? Im new to Linux :)
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15:56<fred_>I already checked the conf file but it doesnt help
15:56<trekdanne>what problem are you having
15:58<fred_>I have multiple Pcs with windows here and they cant see the fileshares from the Debian box and vice versa
15:58<fred_>smb:/// is empty which confuses me - it should show stuff on my box right?
16:00<fred_>the network runs on tcp and ipx, because win machines dont see themselver otherwise - also I installed the IPX protocol and set the ipx.conf but i dont thinnk thats it :)
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16:01<trekdanne>you shouldn't have to do that
16:01<trekdanne>do you have any firewalls or anything that could block the connection
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16:01<trekdanne>also check that samba is running successfuly
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16:02<fred_>trekdanne: how do I check it?
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16:03<trekdanne>maybe with smbclient or look at the logs
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16:08<DreamLnr>i want to create mailboxes
16:08<DreamLnr>what do i start with?
16:08<DreamLnr>i.e. what software do i need?
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16:10<trekdanne>a mail transfer agent
16:10<DreamLnr>it functions both as smtp and pop?
16:10<trekdanne>no, you will need something else for pop access
16:11<DreamLnr>so MTA is only a smtp?
16:11<ehnvis>check out dovecot for pop and imap access
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16:11<DreamLnr>so 1.smtp(e.g. exim) 2.pop(e.g. dovecot)
16:12<trekdanne>Courier has both but it's a bit limited
16:13<DreamLnr>but then what is fetchmail used for?
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16:13<kop>DreamLnr: It' is a pop/imap client.
16:13<kop>DreamLnr : I prefer postfix to exim, YMMV.
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16:14<DreamLnr>so fetchmail is same as courier trekdanne mentioned?
16:14<DreamLnr>i gave exim as an example
16:14<I_Died_Once>When, oh, when will we have debian 5.0 ???
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16:14<kop>DreamLnr : No. Courier (& dovecot) is a pop/imap server
16:14<DreamLnr>i know there are sendmail, exim, postfix,etc
16:15<DreamLnr>so why use postfix&dovecot when we can use fetchmail instead?
16:15<kop>DreamLnr : You also need a domain, and management, either hosted or your own dns server. (I prefer bind9.)
16:15<DreamLnr>domain is another question
16:15<kop>DreamLnr : Fetchmail is a client. Dovecot a server.
16:16<kop>DreamLnr : MTAs route.
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16:16<DreamLnr>so then a stupid question
16:17<DreamLnr>i write a message to a girl
16:17<DreamLnr>how does it travel to her?
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16:17<DreamLnr>first it goes from my mail client to smtp, right?
16:17<dr|z3d>DreamLnr: It gets relayed.
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16:18<dr|z3d>Your server talks to another server, which talks to another, until the destination is reached. Think "pass the parcel"
16:18<kop>DreamLnr : You need a guide. The ones at tldp can be old but the fundimentals remain the same.
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16:18<kop>DreamLnr :
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16:20<DreamLnr>what keywords?
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16:22<DreamLnr>i didnt understand what is fetchmail used for
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16:25<kop>DreamLnr : For user interfaces there's also webmail like imp4 or squrrelmail
16:25<DreamLnr>my users ues outlook
16:26<DreamLnr>its the same as sqmail, but sqmail is web based
16:26<DreamLnr>i think
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16:26<kop>DreamLnr : Outlook has it's own pop/imap client, so fetchmail is not needed.
16:26<deddi13>hi leute
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16:27<DreamLnr>so outlook sends mesage via smtp server
16:27<DreamLnr>then the mesaage bounces to my pop server
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16:27<DreamLnr>and gets retrieved from there via outlook?
16:27<kop>DreamLnr : Yes, possbily via other smtp servers.
16:27<deddi13>you're only speak english ??
16:28<DreamLnr>and if i dont have outlook
16:28<kop>deddi13 : Yes. There are other channels in other languages. What language do you want to use?
16:28<DreamLnr>i can use fetchmail to read messages via text mode?
16:28<dpkg>deutschsprachige Hilfe bekommt ihr in (auf, oder - German speaking users please go to (on, or DE == Desktop Environment
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16:29<kop>DreamLnr : No. You can use fetchmail to use the network to put your mail in a local file.
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16:30<kop>DreamLnr : If you want, you can talk pop or smtp 'by hand', (read the rfcs) with just telnet or nc or some such, but you need a reason to want to do so.
16:31<DreamLnr>e.g. local file-like /var/mail/dreamlnr?
16:31<kop>DreamLnr : Yes.
16:32<DreamLnr>i think i got it
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16:32<kop>DreamLnr : Wikipedia is your friend.
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16:33<DreamLnr>if it was, i didnt have to ask you:)
16:33<DreamLnr>thank you very much
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17:14<MaT__>Hello there...
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17:15<MaT__>Can anybody there tell me, when there will be packages for 2.6.27 kernel? :-)
17:15<abrotman>probably after lenny releases
17:15<MaT__>I'm just curious, that 2.6.27 is not even in unstable or experimental...
17:16<abrotman>yes, i'm aware
17:16<Bushmills>MaT__: it is on
17:16<Bushmills>2.6.28 even
17:16<Bushmills>well, rc
17:16<abrotman>rc no count!
17:17<MaT__>I know... And it looks, like that I'm supposed to use kernel from there... I need some new drivers, that are in 2.6.27...
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17:17<Bushmills>ok, i assert the opposite. there is no 2.6.28. any resemblance to a 2.6.28 kernel is merely the result of illusion
17:18<Slurb>how do you check your system font?
17:18<MaT__>Slurb: What do you mean by system font? In GTK? Or in console?
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17:19<MaT__>Is Debian using vanilla kernel, or are there some patches?
17:19<Slurb>im trying to get the console to be high graphic
17:19<MaT__>Slurb: And what do you mean by checking it?
17:19<MaT__>Slurb: You mean better resolution?
17:19<Slurb>well the console program is setting it to latlu-num
17:20<Slurb>and i dont have that installed
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17:23<chealer>MaT__: there are some patches
17:23<MaT__>chealer: and do they exist also for 2.6.27?
17:23<Slurb>im trying to get better res in the console and the program that is trying to set the console font is setting it to a font i dont have so i am wondering how to check what the font is so i can change the one the program looks for
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17:24<MaT__>Slurb: /etc/console-tools/config
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17:24<MaT__>Slurb: There you can look, what font your system wants to use.
17:25<Slurb>mat__: thank you
17:25<MaT__>Slurb: But if you want higer resolution, you should look for vga parameter of kernel.
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17:26<MaT__>Slurb: For example, I have 1680x1050 on my notebook, so I have this line in my grub config: kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.26-1-amd64 root=/dev/sda3 ro vga=872
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17:27<MaT__>And is there some reason, why OpenOffice 3.0 are just in experimental and not in unstable?
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17:28<dpkg>well, slushy is when a <testing> release becomes frozen, <unstable> tends to partially freeze as well. This is because developers are reluctant to upload radically new software to unstable, in case the frozen software in testing needs minor updates and to fix release critical bugs which keep testing from becoming <stable>.
17:31<MaT__>Ok, I understand this Debian politic, but it looks like OpenOffice 3.0 is there for some time... So I thought it is stable enough, when it is officialy released for... hm... for example - Windows.
17:32<MaT__>But its nice that it is possible to have it from experimental. For kernel, it is not so easy. :-(
17:32<MaT__>I have to learn again how to use this make-kpkg and so...
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18:37<kingsley>Is my recollection correct that it's best to set the hardware clock of a new system to GMT?
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18:38<amphi>kingsley: yes
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18:54<kingsley>Does anyone here happen to know how to invoke the gui installer from the live CD's boot prompt?
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18:56<stew>kingsley: does f1 or f3 tell you? asked #debian-live ?
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18:58<kingsley>stew: Like you, I expected to find an answer in one of the function key help screens. Unfortunately, the answer wasn't there.
18:58<kingsley>Howeverm I wasn't aware of #debian-live. I'll check there.
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19:02<Bushmills>kingsley: linux / unix only systems: yes. dual boot with windows: local time preferable
19:03<Bushmills> not a matter of "new" or "not new"
19:03<Bushmills>niet "boe" ?
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19:04<Sinterklaas>"boe" kan ook
19:04<Sinterklaas>maar dit is een english channel ;)
19:04<Bushmills>that is juist
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19:06<Bushmills>there have you wel gelijk
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19:08<bbelt16ag>hi peeps I was wondering is there a init script for debian that will strtup virtualbox I believe I hae the OSE editon that's the open source edition? well its in your repo so must be gnu OSS
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19:08<Sinterklaas>what is vitrualbox?
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19:09<bbelt16ag>created by Sun
19:09<bbelt16ag>hosts a virtual operating system on a host operating system
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19:11<Slurb>use bittorrent and get vmware workstation
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19:11<Slurb>works well with software
19:11<Slurb>i would recommend wine for games
19:11<bbelt16ag>Slurb: you totally missed the point..
19:11<Slurb>probably did
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19:14<Sinterklaas>quiet here
19:14*dpkg Twice as much happens!
19:15<bbelt16ag>I found something woot
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19:34<kingsley>Does anyone here happen to know how to invoke the *text* mode installer from the live CD's boot prompt?
19:35<Sinterklaas>just us ethe normal insall cds?
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19:36<kingsley>Sinterklaas: Do you happen to know if it's possible to install a minimal system with debian-testing-i386-kde-CD-1.iso?
19:36<Sinterklaas>I have no idea, sorry
19:36<Sinterklaas>I assuem s
19:37<Sinterklaas>but just get the normal netinstall
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19:37<Sinterklaas>bye kalpik
19:37<Sinterklaas>buy tuxwarriot
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20:10<dpkg><Glitch_Master> Have you ever gone to the very beginning of your root command history and read stuff? It's very nostalgic.. <shingouz> Glitch_Master: Yea, I noticed "let there be light" ;)
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20:49<Jasa>Hey there. =)
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20:56<Jasa>Sup there, i have some matter to discuss around ... anyone from Finland btw ? =)
20:56<Jasa>There has been some terrorism around and some limousines appearing inside the town called Pyhäsalmi considering its 7000 people town its bit unfamiliar.
20:56<Jasa>I would guess its some Presidental thing and some people known as Makkoset.
20:57<bighornram>I'm attempting to install AWN launcher but doesn't show up on desktop and there is no check in my config window as docs say. Anyone using this that might have suggestions?
20:57<Jasa>On their list already is attempt of murder with some type of drugs and contacting cigarette factories to put their unwanted things inside those.
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20:58<adb>Jasa: wrong channel +
20:58<bighornram>Jasa: How does that have anything to do with the topic of this forum?
20:58<Jasa>Nothing. =p
20:59<Jasa>But then again what would be the correct channel to discuss, hmm they did block my messenger side talking rather heavily once already. =)
20:59<Jasa>And they control media that is. =(
21:02<tkoski>What are you talking about jasa :D
21:02<Jasa>Just some pure terrorism caused by people unknown. =)
21:02<Jasa>Mostlikely President. -.-
21:03<Jasa>And they have some cameras around the house i know from the media and they have inside house listening. -.-
21:03<Jasa>And people just follow around 24/7. =)
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21:05<Jasa>Has to do with some thing around. -.-
21:05<Jasa>Well one thing actually but it seems it has really heavy effects. -.-
21:05<adb>USE #flood
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21:06<bozz>it that really bothering you adb?..
21:06<Jasa>#flood is invite only. -.-
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21:07<adb>ahhh #flood2
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21:14<LL00>is it possible with dhcpd to to have for a subnet multiple ranges addresses?
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21:17<kevin>Does anyone know how to get Audacious to recognize an MTP player?
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22:08<favor>is anybody of kind here?
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22:11<favor>I have a disk partition question?
22:11<favor>let me describe to you first
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22:15<favor>my disk partition /usr directory and /home mount separately under different partition. and then few weeks later, my /usr directory uses 78% of his partition , and the /home only 8% of its partition. My question is how to resize /home partition , and give its size to /usr use?
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22:26<mossmoss>i want to be able to just compose and send a simple email from the console.
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22:29<mossmoss>but i don't want to have to install exim
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22:43<mossmoss>anyone got adobe flash player working for iceweasel?
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22:49-!-mode/#debian [+l 357] by debhelper
22:49<dpkg>flash is probably frequently used to deliver interactivity, audio and video through a web browser. Ask me about <gnash> or <swfdec> for free implementations or <adobe flash> for a non-free implementation. Also see
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22:55<mossmoss>adb: thx
22:55<acidslep>how could i do a open-with equivlant with lynx?
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23:02<Ce_LucHu>y 2
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23:05<Bushmills>mossmoss: look at ssmtp for sending mail (by relaying through another server, maybe your provider's)
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23:05<mossmoss>what about a lightweight smtp server on my own box?
23:06<mossmoss>*for my own box
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23:06<Bushmills>mossmoss: exim is relatively lightweight. check out postfix, alternatively
23:07<Bushmills>but both also handle incoming mail - which you don't seem to need
23:07<mossmoss>not atm
23:08<Bushmills>well, any smtp server does that. that's its job after all
23:08<mossmoss>do i just need to remove the 3 files that were added to /boot if i want to get rid of the kernel i installed?
23:08<Bushmills>use your package manager
23:09<mossmoss>i compiled kernel from source, but forgot to add support for something
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23:10<Bushmills>if you did that "the debian way" you used the package manager to install your home-made kernel
23:11<Bushmills>therefore, use your package manager
23:11<mossmoss>i didn't do the debian way. i just compiled from source then ran make install and make modules install
23:12<mossmoss>mkinitrd <blah blah> failed horribly
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23:12<Bushmills>in that case, do the opposite of what was done so "that (they) were added"
23:13<mossmoss>i followed these directions.
23:14<Bushmills>well, just undo the effect of those steps. i.e., fix boot manager config, remove files in /boot, remove modules.
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23:15<Bushmills>and then read about how to compile a kernel "the debian way"
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23:15<mossmoss>ok. just one question. how do i go about removing the modules?
23:15<kop>mossmoss : They're in /lib/modules/ under the kernel
23:16<Bushmills>you find them and delete them. but better only after you rebooted with the new kernel
23:17<kop>mossmoss : (In other words, don't remove anything until you've a new kernel that works, or you'll "temporarly" have an unbootable/unrunnable system.)
23:17<mossmoss>i'm using a running kernel right now. i added a new one and it failed. i'm still ok
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23:19<Bushmills>kop: thanks for clarifying. noticed that the way i said that may be misleading
23:20<Bushmills>(was assuminh that borked kernel was running)
23:20<kop>!tell mossmoss -about kernel-package
23:20<Bushmills>(and "new kernel" meant "improved kernel")
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23:20<mossmoss>yeah. i'm reading about the debian way right now
23:20<kop>mossmoss : It's amazingly painless.
23:21<mossmoss>heh. i just sat through 45 minutes of "make"ing
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23:22<kop>mossmoss : That's the part where you get un-sober enough to remove the pain.
23:23<mossmoss>better call my sponsor >:(
23:23<kop>mossmoss : Why make your own kernel?
23:24<mossmoss>i just want to upgrade my kernels.
23:24<mossmoss>that is my goal
23:24<kop>mossmoss : Problem is, then the security team is not there to fix holes. I just wait for the new release. (Although if you're running etch there's an etchnhalf kernel that's newer that can be installed.)
23:24<mossmoss>am i overthinking this?
23:25<mossmoss>what are you running right now?
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23:25<kop>2.6.18-6-686, on some boxes, etchnhalf, which is iirc 2.6.22 on others.
23:26<Bushmills>2.6.28-rc5 here
23:26<mossmoss>so 2.6.18-6-686 is current
23:26<kop>mossmoss : On stable, or 2.6.24 if you care to be oh-so-risque.
23:26<Bushmills>2.6.27 as alternative boot
23:27<mossmoss>what gfx cards are you guys using
23:27<kop>Bushmills : 2.6.27? (on lenny maybe?)
23:27<Bushmills>lenny, yes. vanilla sources
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23:28<kop>I use machines that are old. My current thin client is about 10 or 12 years old (old enough not to need a cpu fan.)
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23:28<Bushmills>running a netbook here. fan turned off 95% of the time
23:29<kop>I don't want to have to use binary-only drivers. There's a reason they say "use binary only drivers, hate life". They eventually break at an inopportune moment. I can upgrade painlessly forever.
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23:30<Bushmills>tries the 2.6.28 because of supposed improvements for LED backlight brightness control.
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23:32<Bushmills>2.6.27 because of improved atheros 2425 support
23:32<Bushmills>no more madwifi.
23:34<kop>Iv'e had to build my own to get support on newer hardware. I wish debian would release on their 1.5 year intervals. *sigh* Looks like lenny won't go stable for 6 more months, based on past performance.
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23:37<Bushmills>currently looking at this box:
23:37<Bushmills>not really a slim client anymore
23:38<Bushmills>60 gig hd built in, 512 mb RAM
23:38<acidslep>grr, i cant xon or rstart or any remote X at all
23:38<kop>Bushmills : For what? If you just want points, get one that's the size of a RJ45 connector.
23:38<kop>Bushmills : Laptop drive?
23:38<Bushmills>gateway + home server
23:38<Bushmills>2.5" drive
23:38<acidslep>so, even though i xhost +'d it actually comes up and says rejected client, when i do xterm -display mmm:0
23:39<acidslep>what am i doing wrong
23:39<Bushmills>i like the power specs. says 4..6 watts under load
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23:39<Bushmills>great for a 24/7 machine - such as a gateway
23:40<kop>acidslep : I always poke it with a stick and eventually it works. (I find xeyes the easy test program....)
23:41<kop>Bushmills : I like soekris boxes. Nothing like having multiple nics for real network isolation.
23:41<kop>Bushmills : I think they're around 8W, but you'd better check the specs for yourself at
23:42<Bushmills>acidslep: what does echo $DISPLAY show?
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23:42<kop>Bushmills : He's explicity given --display.
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23:43<Bushmills>oh. said "remote X" ... what was given as display? logged in through ssh?
23:43<kop>Bushmills : A separate network for lan, wifi, & dmz.
23:43<Bushmills>kop: and low power and nicely compact
23:43<kop>Bushmills : Good question.
23:44<acidslep>not sure what you mean Bushmills, say, i want an xterm thats on my screen working on the remote machine
23:44<Bushmills>maybe more beneficial to leave --display away, and connect ssh -X or ssh -Y
23:44<acidslep>just an example, cause i could ssh for that.
23:45<kop>acidslep : The question is, how remote? If you're going off the lan, better to tunnel X via ssh or OpenVPN.
23:45<acidslep>right, just inside trusted network
23:45<acidslep>im looking at -X and -Y
23:45<acidslep>i was not aware of this stuff :)
23:46<acidslep>but still it seems xhsot + then --display comp:0 should work
23:46<Bushmills>usually the sshd would be setup to forward X by default
23:46<Bushmills>acidslep: does your local X listen to tcp?
23:47<Bushmills>(is turned off by default)
23:48<acidslep>ok, will look. but the other is saying like Audit: reject client on (mycomp)
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23:48<acidslep>but ill work for a bit. i bet i can get this
23:48<Bushmills>not listening to tcp could be a reason
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23:48<acidslep>if it was not listening it would not reject it though?
23:48<mossmoss>what was that advice about not building my own kernel?
23:48<acidslep>never mind :)
23:49<kop>Bushmills : Does that small box have 2 RJ45 nics?
23:49<Bushmills>what else to do? accept because not listening??
23:49<Bushmills>kop, no. just wlan + 1 rj45 (+ 3 usb, makes usbnet also an option)
23:49<kop>mossmoss : No security support for your own kernel. That's why I stick with stable and away from testing.
23:50<kop>Bushmills : I like copper.
23:50<mossmoss>ok. and the latest stable is 2.6.18?
23:50<kop>mossmoss : 2.6.24 is supported on stable too, just not the "stock" install.
23:51<mossmoss>does 2.6.24 have xen support?
23:51<Bushmills>kop, though i'm not entirely sure about only 1. specs say "rj45 ethernet ports", i.e. plural
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23:52<mossmoss>so i see 2.6.24.[1-7]
23:52<kop>mossmoss : I think so, search the available packages at
23:52<kop>mossmoss : No. Only debian packages get security support.
23:52<acidslep>Bushmills, no i mean. if it was not listening it would not mention droping it because it was not paying attention. -X works though! cool!
23:53<kop>acidslep : What did you have wrong?
23:53<acidslep>no idea, but using ssh -X works
23:53<acidslep>i even played a video fine
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23:53<kop>Bushmills : That site has too much bling for my taste.
23:53<mossmoss>you just lost me. are you saying i should grab my kernel from
23:54<Bushmills>acidslep: you can edit remote sshd config, then you don't need the -X any longer
23:54<kop>mossmoss : You should grab your kernel from "aptitude install" or apt-get. You can search packages at to see what's available. (Aptitude trims the package name and cuts off the end where 'xen' would be, and I'm too lazy to reformat the output.)
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23:55<kop>mossmoss : (unless you've a good reason to need your own kernel. In which case may help as well.)
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23:58<kop>Bushmills : And you can get hardware encryption accelleration in another card if you like. No point in paying for video if you're not going to use it.
23:59<Bushmills>but that box looks *huge*
23:59<Bushmills>at least 15 cm wide
---Logclosed Sun Nov 23 00:00:03 2008