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#debian IRC Logs for 2008-12-05

---Logopened Fri Dec 05 00:00:55 2008
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00:02<amdgoon>anyone here know of a place where the decision to drop the linux-image-k7 was discussed?
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00:07<GPenguin>!tell amdgoon about k7 dropped
00:09<southafrikanse>!tell southafrikanse fonts
00:09<southafrikanse>!tell southafrikanse font
00:09<southafrikanse>!tell southafrikanse font config
00:09<southafrikanse>Hello. I'm having some problems with some fonts. In Iceweasel I can't see them :/
00:09<GPenguin>southafrikanse: you can /query dpkg
00:09<GPenguin>and you can have a look at
00:10<amdgoon>thanks GPenguin
00:10<GPenguin>fonts just work for me so far, so i never needed to know how to fix them
00:10<GPenguin>amdgoon: welcome
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00:10<southafrikanse>you see this page?
00:10*GPenguin looks
00:11<southafrikanse>I can't see the posts
00:11<GPenguin>that sucks
00:11<GPenguin>can you try Epiphany instead?
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00:12<GPenguin>maybe its just javascript that needs to be enabled
00:12<GPenguin>not sure to be honest
00:13<southafrikanse>let's see with Epiphany then
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00:14<southafrikanse>GPenguin, aparently it's Iceweasel problem
00:14<GPenguin>same problem?
00:14<GPenguin>check its preferences whether javascript is disabled and try if enable it helps
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00:57<karpagam>hi, i tried installing flash player 10 in debian but in vain. any help?
00:57<karpagam>i am using debian etch
00:58<GPenguin>what do you mean by "but in vain"?
00:58<snogglethorpe>karpagam: hmm are you using the "flashplugin-nonfree" package
00:59<snogglethorpe>wait, is etch stable?
00:59<snogglethorpe>i can never remember
01:00<karpagam>no only mirror with main contrib and non-free
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01:01<karpagam>it says flashplayer installed but about:plugins doesn't show plugin
01:01<karpagam>yes stable version is etch now
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01:02<snogglethorpe>works great for me (using unstable though)
01:03<snogglethorpe>(even works on a 64-bit system)
01:04<karpagam>but in etch it is not working
01:04<snogglethorpe>does it depend on specific flash versions?
01:05<snogglethorpe>perhaps it's getting confused because the binary download it's looking for isn't there anymore
01:05<karpagam>i think only version 9 is working
01:05<snogglethorpe>karpagam: fwiw, I've also installed flash the old fashioned way, and it worked fine then too
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01:06<snogglethorpe>karpagam: so maybe it's worth getting rid of the package and trying the manual download
01:06<karpagam>even i downloaded from adobe site and installed manually but no fruit
01:07<snogglethorpe>googled for other people with the same question?
01:08<karpagam>yes, many have reported this bug
01:08<cheal>karpagam: just ask your question
01:08<karpagam>can't flash player 10 be installed on debian etch?
01:11<jm_>hmm I never tried it on Etch, but it's crap on Lenny
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01:14<karpagam>thanks anyway i will get back later
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01:20<jrv2kgts>hello everyone, what is the best way to configure lenny to use proper runlevel designations? ie. init 3(text multi-user), init 4(multi-user w/X single), and init 5(multi-user w/X)
01:21<Nemoder>man update-rc.d
01:22<jm_>jrv2kgts: there is only one runlevel used in Debian
01:23<jrv2kgts>thanks for pointing me in the right direction. ;-)
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01:29<jm_>jrv2kgts: if you don't need dm, simply uninstall it
01:29<dpkg>Debian does not use a specific runlevel for graphical display managers by default. Just remove the dm package(s) with "apt-get remove xdm kdm wdm gdm pdm". "update-rc.d -f xdm remove" and friends will also disable the dm until a package update is installed and the runlevel symlinks are restored.. NEWSFLASH! echo "false" >/etc/X11/default-display-manager, or a temporary solution is to hit ctl-alt-fN to get to a console
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01:35<jrv2kgts>dpkg, thanks for the additional info. this is for a web/ftp/mail server where i didn't need X running (rdp sessions only)
01:35<dpkg>jrv2kgts: de rien
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01:35<GPenguin>jrv2kgts: better and easier: debootstrap
01:36<GPenguin>then add the right kernel package and step by step what you really need
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01:38<snogglethorpe>jrv2kgts: looks like you can also tweak the file "/etc/X11/default-display-manager" to choose which display mgr gets used
01:39<snogglethorpe>and i suppose that would include "none"
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01:52<screenn>Evolution asks for the keyring password when it check my mail, every time after reboot
01:53<screenn>it works without asking password before, something new
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01:54<jm_>maybe you have installed gnome keyring manager or somesuch
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01:57<cesurasean>Ok, can someone help my dumb self out for a second?
01:57<[gloom]>hi there
01:58<cesurasean>how do I know which directory apache is directing a domain?
01:58<cesurasean>im using virtualmin
01:58<cesurasean>and the domain is giving me a 403 forbidden page
01:59<cesurasean>how do I know which directory apache is directing toward when it's giving this error?
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01:59<blarson>cesurasean: Have you looked in error.log ?
02:01<cesurasean>there is nothing wrong with the server, it's just directing to another page
02:01<cesurasean>perhaps /var/www
02:01<cesurasean>I don't know.
02:01<cesurasean>I compiled apache to direct toward /home
02:02<cesurasean>how do I know where apache is looking when I type that domain? because, I'm pretty sure everything is set right. I think it may be some wacko thing with apache install.
02:02<dr|z3d>cesurasean: Look at your httpd.conf file. That will tell you all you need to know.
02:02<cesurasean>since it seems there was some type of error when I compiled apache
02:02<jm_>access.log error.log
02:03<jm_>we don't support custom compiled stuff here
02:03<cesurasean>my httpd.conf file is blank, this is a Ubuntu server
02:03<cesurasean>but it's apache2.conf
02:03<cesurasean>and then sites enabled has the virtalhosts, etc
02:04<blarson>!tell cesurasean about ubuntu
02:04<cesurasean>do you think it's some fluke with Ubuntu?
02:05<jm_>do you think we care?
02:05<dr|z3d>Why bother compiling apache, it's in the repository.
02:05<cesurasean>because that's what virtualmin always has problems with
02:05<cesurasean>suexec on apache's dir is set to /var/www
02:05<cesurasean>and you have to compile apache for /home
02:05<kp>cesurasean, this is a debian channel not ubuntu. I would seek the ubuntu forums, or google for apache issues.
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02:19<screenn>jm_ so, I have installed gnome-keyring-manager, can I disable passwords for evolution?
02:20<yang>Any idea how much slower does a SATA drive work with LVM+crypto setup agains an ordinary setup ?
02:22<jm_>screenn: I have no idea, I never used evolution
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02:26<Zoup>is this possible to xset m for a single mouse device ?
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02:27<jm_>Zoup: not with current X server
02:28<Zoup>i need to slowdown one of my mouses, how can i achieve that ?
02:30<yang>Zoup: maybe there is a setting in control panel of your window manager
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02:31<jm_>try adjusting options like samplerate, resolution and sensitivity in xorg.conf for it
02:31<jm_>or if it has a hardware switch to control DPI, lower it that way
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02:33<yang>hello jm_
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03:26<anton>are there any scripts/packages that can build a .changes file for a precompiled .deb? (I want to add 3rd party debs to an internal repository and that is easier with .changes for the debs)
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03:30<jm_>anton: man dch
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03:30<chandu>Hi I have a localfilesystem in one folder on my running machine
03:30<anton>jm_ thats for source packages iirc
03:30<chandu>I want to check for the file existence in that local filesystem under chroot uring shell script
03:30<chandu>how do I do that
03:31<anton>jm_, I am looking for something that just creates the .changes you normally get out from a dpkg-buildpacakge. I was hoping not to have to write it completely myself
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03:32<jm_>anton: did you ever compare a changelog file in source package and the installed one?
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03:33<anton>jm_, I dont want the changelog - I want the .changes which describes a bit more about the deb
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03:33<jm_>anton: what .changes file?
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03:34<anton>jm_, the one you get when building a source package...
03:35<azeem>anton: maybe you can just unpack the .deb and run dpkg-genchanges on it
03:36<azeem>well, smartly unpack the .deb to a state it would be before packing
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03:36<anton>azeem, hmm - that might work.
03:36<jm_>anton: let me check what that is
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03:37<jm_>anton: right, that runs dpkg-genchanges, so I suppose the above suggestion might work
03:37<jm_>although I don't quite see the point of that .changes file
03:38<azeem>you can upload it along with the .debs to a dak-like instace
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03:38<anton>My repository doesnt build all its packges, so accepts binary uploads - it uses the .changes to say which release the package is for (as .debs don't have release info)
03:39<jm_>right, makes sense
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03:39<anton>Am trying to fudge a copy of this file so packages can be uploaded to the right release
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04:54<mady>cpufreq ne marche pas meme apres un sudo dpkg-reconfigure gnome-applets
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04:55<jm_>mady: try english
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05:01<mady>cpufreq does not even after a sudo dpkg-reconfigure gnome-applets
05:01<jm_>does not what?
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05:02<jm_>or try #debian-fr if you want to ask in french
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05:20<mady>icq irq please
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05:35<Bleupomme>hello. On a server I have two NICs with mac addresses finishing on d6 and d7. But when I check the ARP table on my laptop it has associated the IP of the server to a mac address finishing in d3 (the rest is the same). Is that normal?
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05:36<jm_>arp table stores more than just local MAC addresses
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05:41<Bleupomme>jm_: I don't follow you
05:41<jm_>Bleupomme: I could say the same for your concerns :)
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05:43<Bleupomme>jm_: :) actually I was troubleshooting the connection with this particular server as I loose the connection after one hour. I checked the arp table and it seems that the wrong mac address is stored in the ARP table, or I could be completely wrong
05:44<jm_>Bleupomme: did you check the real one of the server?
05:45<Bleupomme>jm_: yes with an ifconfig. It has two NICs, one ending in d6 and the other in d7. but on my local arp table I have the same MAC but ending in d3
05:46<jm_>Bleupomme: ok, that may be for some other host
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05:47<Bleupomme>jm_: I wonder. The mac address is the same except for the last byte. But we only have one server of this sort
05:47<jm_>Bleupomme: what's the first part (three bytes)?
05:48<frunsk>i have a corrupted usb disk that neither dd,fidk nor cfdisk are able to read... google wasn't of much help either.... has anyone had this kind of problem before?
05:48<Bleupomme>jm_: it's a broadcom NIC I think. 0:1e:c9:ec:e:xx
05:49<Bleupomme>frunsk: Yes I have had this kind of problems. The disk was broken
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05:49<jm_>Bleupomme: that looks like DELL
05:49<Bleupomme>jm_: yes it is
05:50<frunsk>Bleupomme, apperently it has not been physically damaged
05:50<jm_>Bleupomme: so you only have on dell machine there?
05:50<Bleupomme>jm_: Only one of this model
05:51<jm_>Bleupomme: right, but some others would also have 0:1e:c9:...
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05:51<Bleupomme>check the macs: NIC 1: 0:1e:c9:ec:e:d6 ; NIC 2: 0:1e:c9:ec:e:d7 ; ARP entry on lapto0:1e:c9:ec:e:d3
05:51<jm_>Bleupomme: but which IP is d3 for?
05:52<Bleupomme>jm_: The server's IP
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05:52<jm_>Bleupomme: well tcpdump/wireshark shall help figure out where it's coming from
05:54<Bleupomme>jm_: Could you give me a link to a web page?
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05:55<Bleupomme>frunsk: does it make clicking sounds? Can you see it when you type lsusb?
05:55<frunsk>Bleupomme, yup i can see it
05:55<Bleupomme>frunsk: did the drive get an entry in /dev/ ?
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05:56<frunsk>Bleupomme, yup
05:56<Bleupomme>frunsk: Which entry? /dev/sdb ?
05:56<frunsk>Bleupomme, /dev/sda
05:57<Bleupomme>frunsk: Is the /dev/sda1 present?
05:57<frunsk>Bleupomme, nope
05:57<Bleupomme>frunsk: Is it a brand new disk?
05:57<frunsk>Bleupomme, yeah
05:58<jm_>Bleupomme: try this one
05:58<Bleupomme>frunsk: you have to first create a partition table and partitions with fdisk -> fdisk /dev/sda
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05:59<Bleupomme>jm_: Thank you I will check these sites
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05:59<jm_>Bleupomme: the last one has an example with tcpdump - easier to use wireshark though
06:00<Bleupomme>jm_: Thanks a lot
06:00<frunsk>Bleupomme, fdisk /dev/sda returns "Unable to open /dev/sda"
06:01<jm_>frunsk: did you run it as root?
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06:01<frunsk>jm_, yup
06:02<jm_>frunsk: what does 'dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/null count=50' do?
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06:02<frunsk>jm_, "dd: opening `/dev/sda': No medium found"
06:02<jm_>frunsk: are you sure it's sda?
06:03<frunsk>jm_, yeah i got it from lsusb
06:03<jm_>frunsk: check if /proc/partitions lists the right size for it
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06:04<frunsk>jm_, doesn't mention /dev/sda
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06:05<jm_>frunsk: then check your kernel messages
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06:06<frunsk>jm_, the only strange thing in dmseg is "Driver 'sd' needs updating - please use bus_type methods"
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06:06<jm_>frunsk: can you paste it on some pastebin?
06:06<jm_>frunsk: do you have the necessary modules loaded?
06:06<frunsk>jm_, sure
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06:09<jm_>frunsk: you're getting an USB disconnect as soon as it's found
06:10<frunsk>jm_, oh i didn't notice
06:10<frunsk>jm_, is that a hardware problem?
06:11<jm_>frunsk: I have no idea, I guess it can be
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06:11<frunsk>jm_, ok tnx
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06:13<Bleupomme>frunsk: What kernel are you using?
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06:48<reggae_>hi peeps, since yesterday i need someone to help me configure properly the bridge...
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06:50<reggae_>i successfully bridge between wlan0 and eth0, via "brctl addif br0 wlan0" and brctl addif br0 eth0", problem is wlan0 stop receiving internet from the AP after bridging? i wanted to share my laptops internet to the router so many devices can share wif it....any ideas?
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06:50<southafrikanse>hello. I'm having a problem with Iceweasel:
06:50<southafrikanse>I can't see the post :/
06:51<southafrikanse>In some websites I'm unable to read what they are saying
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06:51<southafrikanse>In Epiphany works fine but Iceweasel forget it
06:53<craigevil>that page looks just fine in iceweasel here, even though i cant read a damn thing on the page
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06:55<southafrikanse>craigevil, because of the language, yes?
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06:57<craigevil>yes havent a clue whats being said
06:57<craigevil>but the page renders just fine
06:58<craigevil>this is on iceweasel 3.04
06:59<southafrikanse>craigevil, I think it has something about the monospace fonts
06:59<E0x>maybe do some config in you iceweseal , try moving the config folder of you home to another one
06:59<southafrikanse>but I'm clueless what to do
06:59<E0x>and restart iceweseal
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06:59<E0x>mv ~/.iceweseal ~/iceweseal_old , and restart iceweseal
07:00<craigevil>my monospace is set for Liberation Mono, Proportional Sans Serif, Serif Liberation Serif, Sans Serif Times New Roman
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07:00<southafrikanse>stupid question
07:01<southafrikanse>forget it
07:01<southafrikanse>I have an idea
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07:02<Thierry>Salut tlmd
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08:05<orca>allow know in what directory is install apache web server when was installed on system? on is created the httpd.conf file and the directory httpdocs?
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08:05<Swat->a good afternoon
08:06<orca>good afternoon swat-
08:06<Swat->Anyone here familiar with xen?
08:08<orca>anyone croledge the plesk application for webhosting?
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08:09<GPenguin>Xen seems to be dying slowly. open minded people have a look at the product that is supported by redhat
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08:10<Swat->hmm well i guess i am close minded then :)
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08:10*GPenguin feeds kvm to Swat- for eternal happyness
08:11<GPenguin>seriously, anything that has no support in the mainline kernel is tricky in the year 2008
08:11<Swat->so in a few weeks we will be ok then i guess
08:11<GPenguin>well! who knows ...
08:12<Swat->i do since it's 2009 then :)
08:12<GPenguin>Debian Developers are hard working people in general :D
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08:12<Swat->anyway has anyone ever had a xen guest booting the wrong kernel, even when there is no grub config at all (and no kernel defined in the xen config file) ?
08:13<GPenguin>no idea to be honest, but have you checked yet?
08:13<Swat->yes i have check more that that, and i cannot figure it out, seems so strange.
08:13<GPenguin>so lets wait for the experts to join us :)
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08:23<petemc>orca: your questions are hard to understand
08:25<petemc>orca: apache stuff is in /etc/apache2/
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08:31<And1>How can I check if I miss any dependencies or if all my installed packages got upgrade from etch to lenny?
08:31-!-smaug9 [] has joined #debian
08:32<petemc>it should tell you
08:32<petemc> /msg dpkg etch->lenny for a guide on upgrading
08:32<stew>And1: dependencies should be taken care of for you. "aptitude -f install" would fix any missing dependencies and "aptitude search '~U'" would list any packages that could be upgraded
08:33<And1>petemc: No dpkg at the moment. ;)
08:33<And1>stew: Thanks, lemme check that.
08:33<petemc>try ravenbird
08:33<And1>My problem is, my video driver(s) don't work quite well anymore after dist-upgrade.
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08:34<And1>Hrm, aptitude -f install doesn't install anything and the other command doesn't list anything.
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08:34<stew>And1: tried 'dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg' ?
08:34<And1>stew: Yup.
08:35<stew>be more specific than "don't work quite well"
08:35<And1>What was strange, after dist-upgrade all xserver-xorg-video-* packages were missing.
08:35-!-zyl is now known as gdzyl
08:36<gdzyl>hi all
08:36<And1>stew: Mh, using nv or nvidia, it takes almost 5 seconds to switch from one workspace to another, if a terminal is open (not if a gtk-app is open)... using nvidia, almost all displayed characters are kind of only shown half... and using nv, nvidia or even vesa, I get strange XIO 11 errors, but someone said yesterday, that's normal.
08:36<orca>the debian distribution, can's upgrade all distribution ussing command: # apt-get update, # apt-get dist-upgrade adding te dvd/cd repository to /apt/etc/sources.list?
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08:56<mady>how to use gnomenu
08:56<kurumin>still online
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09:18<__iron>kurumin: take a look in your pm
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09:29<GPenguin>hasa: copy?
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10:25<mike>I have a couple stock kernels in my /boot/grub/menu.lst, _above_ the AUTOMAGIC KERNEL something-or-other list...
10:25<mike>Can anybody tell me how to configure Debian not to duplicate those and add single-user boot options for them?
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10:25<mike>Right now I've got like 3 entries for one kernel and it's annoying the perfectionist in me :-\
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10:26<Solver>checkout the name of the last horse in this race:
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10:26<Solver>ok that's better
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10:26<Solver>ok dog, what do I know about gambling. I just thought it was cute :)
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10:30<yfk>does wine's misexec give the same interface as windows's ?
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10:58<xeross>i tried restoring my innodb tables with adding innodb_force_recovery=4 as stated on the mysql website. but when looking at the system log it sias: unknown variable 'innodb_force_recovery=4'
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11:28<xeross>i have this error: /usr/bin/mysqladmin: error while loading shared libraries:
11:28<xeross>how to fix it
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11:30<blockowitsch>xeross: how did you install mysql?
11:30<blockowitsch>the normal debian way?
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11:31<blockowitsch>please do: find /usr -name 'libmysqlclient*'
11:31<blockowitsch>and check if there is any matching so
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11:31<blockowitsch>.so i mean
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11:35<xeross>i fixed already
11:35<xeross>i purged everything that had to do with mysql
11:35<xeross>now mysql is working :D
11:35<xeross>i ish happiez
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11:42<metalqga>where is dpkg?
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11:44<themill>stew: any chance you can swing aptitude onto the channel for us in the absence of dpkg?
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11:45<aptitude>Okay, I'm here. (courtesy of stew)
11:45<themill>stew, thanks
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11:46<themill>metalqga: aptitude uses a daily copy of dpkg's database
11:46<metalqga>nice, thanks
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11:55<fxiny>win gr 2
11:57<stew>dondelelcaro: can you bring back dpkg on this network? thanks
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12:10<T_X>I'm trying to get my digital/optical sound output of my laptop working since 2 months now. the optical device is just missing when I type aplay -l for example. I don't have an iec958-switch in the alsamixer. but I grabbed a xubuntu a minute ago and there I have one
12:10<T_X>I've already been asking on the alsa-channel, but they told me to write on the bug-tracker/mailing-list. but I didn't get an answer on the bug-tracker yet
12:11<T_X>and as it works on xubuntu it seems to be a debian bug, I guess
12:11<T_X>yesterday I tried the latest alsa-source(I couldn't compile it at first, so I even had to modify two lines in the source-codes!)
12:12<T_X>I have an Acer Aspire 5920G by the way
12:12<T_X>or should I give the mailing-list a try?
12:12<T_X>and if yes, which one. Debian or alsa?
12:13<T_X>and thanks in advance for any suggestions ;)
12:14<s_i_m>T_X, what kernel+alsa versions did you have in xubuntu and in debian, respectively?
12:15<T_X>eh, in debian I have a 2.6.26-1-amd64-kernel and tested the pre-installed alsa-version (I think it's 1.0.16) and now I installed alsa-source which is version 1.0.17.dfsg-4
12:16<s_i_m>and in xubuntu?
12:16<T_X>and xubuntu was 8.10 i386, wait, I have a look for the kernel-version...
12:17<T_X>but it was alsa 1.0.17.dfsg-2ubuntu on xubuntu
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12:36<T_X>ah, sry, I have to leave again. hmm, maybe mailing-list is better anyway
12:36<T_X>which one would you suggest
12:37<T_X>and thanks so far. maybe I can use my surround-sound-system someday again :)
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12:43<s_i_m>T_X, you can also report this problem to debian BTS. but make sure you give all the necessary information.
12:44<kitten>ok i have a slight problem
12:45<kitten>the mouse pointer is slow as hell on a panasonic cf-27 laptop runing the latest debian with x11 and fluxbox
12:45<kitten>any ideas?
12:45<s_i_m>and everything else is fast? =)
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12:47<fxiny>try xset
12:47<s_i_m>and there is mouse Sensitivity option in xorg.conv
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12:48<fxiny>iirc : xset m 10 1
12:48<kitten>i didnt see any sensitivity option
12:48<kitten>i shall look again
12:48<s_i_m>man xorg.conf
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12:49<kitten>i have been
12:49<s_i_m>btw, it is not mentioned in man, my bad
12:49<kitten>well how am i suposed to know about it then :P
12:50<fxiny>man xset
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12:50<kitten>i'm reading xset manual as we speek
12:51<kitten>well the deal is if i cat /dev/input/mouse0 the output from that is slugish
12:52<kitten>if i cat /dev/input/event2 its fast as heck
12:52<kitten>only seems to be like that on this old cf-27
12:52<kitten>my newer cf-28 works fine
12:53<kitten>thou if i tell x11 to use event2 i get all sorts of crazy things going on
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12:54<s_i_m>in my xorg.conf i have Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice"
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12:54<kitten>yea mine was like that and i had the same problems
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12:58<s_i_m>maybe the detected mouse protocol is incorrect?
12:58<s_i_m>try setting some manually
12:58<kitten>i have tried
12:59<kitten>guess i will just screw around with it for a while
12:59<kitten>you wouldent know any nice gui tools to program PIC microcontrollers via a parallel port interface?
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12:59<s_i_m>btw, on my laptop only cat /dev/input/mice gives any output
13:00<kitten>well this would be a laptop i am on
13:00<s_i_m>for PIC controllers? sure there were some. try apt-cache search
13:02<kitten>well i was wondering if you had experience with any good ones
13:02<s_i_m>i have only theoretical experince with PIC's =)
13:03<kitten>well i guess i will take off and screw with this for hours
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13:04<s_i_m>kitten, try gpsim and tools
13:04<kitten>well thats to build the code and stuff
13:04<kitten>i need something to burn the code into the pic via a pic16pro parallel port interface
13:05<s_i_m>i understand, i thought gpsim has a tool for that
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13:05<s_i_m>let me see
13:05<kitten>not for the pic16pro
13:05<kitten>well not last time i downloaded it
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13:06<s_i_m>btw, why do you need a GUI for this task? =)
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13:06<kitten>because its pretty :)
13:07<s_i_m>pretty line shouwing the procents completed? =)
13:07<kitten>why did i need to put fluxbox on my 233mhz laptop
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13:09<kitten>hell i'm still trying to find a non python obd2 reading software that works with the elm chipset
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13:14<makaraky>Hi there just an easy question how do I can check what kind of graphic card do I have in an unknown computer?
13:15<makaraky>mmm I got it just sudo lspci
13:15<makaraky>right thanks people
13:17<s_i_m>afaik, it does not need root privileges to run
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13:18<kitten>ok this is going to sound stupid s_i_m.... screen goes black unless i'm typing and ignores the mouse activity... any ideas?
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13:18<samzor>hi, I am learning bash and cant get the string operation '-z' (which test too see if the string variable is null) to work eg: str=''; if [ -z $str ]; then; echo 'string is null'; fi
13:18<kitten>i'm googling it right now...
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13:19<s_i_m>kitten, em. screen saver? =)
13:19<kitten>lol i wish
13:19<kitten>i think its an apm thing
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13:20<s_i_m>samzor, if [ -z "$string" ] ....
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13:22<samzor>thanks s_i_m forgot $ *insert brain*
13:22<s_i_m>no, not that
13:23<kitten>hmmm does rmmod remove the module forever or just for a while
13:23<s_i_m>samzor, the quotes
13:23<kitten>like i never intend on putting bluetooth anything on this an i have a bluetooth module installed
13:23<kitten>woooo my firing pin is here! brb
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13:24<kop>samzor : You need "" around the var your testing.
13:24<kop>samzor : Or else bash disappears it at parse time.
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13:26<samzor>can I use if [[ ]] instead?
13:26<s_i_m>that depends
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13:28<s_i_m>in bash, yes, becase afaik it does not do word splitting inside [[ ]]
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13:29<samzor>yeah, that's what I read. Is that called globbing?
13:29<kitten>it was just a registered letter
13:29<s_i_m>no, not that
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13:31<kitten>s_i_m, do you know what files i need to edit to give regular users direct port access to parallel and serial?
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13:32<s_i_m>kitten, create a group and use chmod
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13:33*kitten looks at the vicodin bottle then at the screen...
13:33<kop>kitten : You need to add them to the right group, ls -lh /dev and see what groups are assigned to the devices you want, then use vigr to edit /etc/group and /etc/gshadow.
13:33<kitten>yea maybe i should attempt that when i dont hurt so much
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13:35<gabriel>ke paxa!!!
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13:36<kitten>so if i want to use serial ports read and write and they are assigned to group dialout..
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13:36<kop>kitten : Put the users in group dialout. (They'll need to re-login for the new group to take effect.)
13:36<kitten>my vigr needs to dead :dialout:x:20:kitten ?
13:36<s_i_m>kitten, better create your own group
13:37<kop>s_i_m : That's silly. Why break everything else that uses group dialout?
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13:37<kitten>well hell i'm going to screw with this when i'm not dying of pain an poping vicodin
13:37<kitten>off to play some xbox!
13:38<s_i_m>kop, that's true.
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13:38<kop>s_i_m : There's always ACLs but it's always been overkill and I've never gone there.
13:38<kitten>anyhow i will chat with you all when i'm doing a little better
13:39<kitten>later guys and thanks for the help
13:39<s_i_m>i was thinking that in general using system groups one can give a user some additional permissions accidentially. probably that is not for dialout
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13:40<s_i_m>the best solution will be to create a group AND some device nodes
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13:41<s_i_m>only for the specific purpose these users may need
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13:44<s_i_m>kop, do you agree this is not as silly as may seem at the first sight? =)
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13:55<me>hey guys if i set my folder permission to 777 for example on folder /test. and now i create a new folder in test for example /test/test2 now test2 is again created with 755 not 777 as i set it on the main folder. is there a way to let linux automatically change the permission on all created files in this folder to 777?
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13:56<metaur>me: umask?
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13:57<metaur>umask 000 might do the trick, depending on what you mean.
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14:00<s_i_m>btw, it is quite silent here today. where are the migrating ubuntu users?
14:01<EmleyMoor>One of my systems has had to have grub2 put on it to complete a routine kernel update... not that I mind but is there a good side-by-side comparison of the two grubs?
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14:02<EmleyMoor>(also, why has it only happened to one of them when I have one more of same release and architecture?)
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14:04<metaur>"For the differences between GRUB Legacy and GRUB 2, please visit their respective pages."
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14:04<s_i_m>EmleyMoor, what error did you get on kernel upgrade with the older grub?
14:04<EmleyMoor>Been there - I see few pros and no cons
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14:05<metaur>Dunno either, really. GRUB 2 is still actively developed, which should be a pro.
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14:05<EmleyMoor>s_i_m: 2.6.26-8 was configured last... and a postinst fail
14:06<kop>EmleyMoor : Depending on your sources.list your different boxes may have resolved different mirrors, some of which have not been updated yet. Hence different results.
14:06<|[LOKIT0]|[off]>Unable to write tunefile.. Read-only file system
14:06<EmleyMoor>I mainly need to know whether 2 has different RAID and LVM support
14:06<EmleyMoor>kop: I use the same ones
14:08<EmleyMoor>I actually have three lenny i686s and this has only affected one of them yet
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14:09<EmleyMoor>(I have another box which is amd64)
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14:10<s_i_m>EmleyMoor, was the error seen at the stage of building initrd.img?
14:11<EmleyMoor>Don't think so
14:11<s_i_m>are you sure it was grub's issue?
14:11<EmleyMoor>I am not the only one who installed grub2 to fix it
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14:11<s_i_m>i see
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14:12<EmleyMoor>I will find the page I found by ggogling
14:13<Guest595>how do i make Konversation connect to efnet?
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14:14<Aslak>It's been years since I've used an IRC client and I forgot the works
14:15<metalqga>'/connect irc.efnet.***
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14:16<Aslak>metalqga: I tried that. It denies me because I'm not an IRC operator.
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14:17<s_i_m>EmleyMoor, looks like device map file problem
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14:18<s_i_m>EmleyMoor, do the drive names changed after the kernel update?
14:19<EmleyMoor>s_i_m: No - but they do sometimes change after a power cycle
14:19<s_i_m>its late, my english becomes worse
14:22<s_i_m>in old good days everything was static and simple to manage...
14:23<s_i_m>nowadays we have modular kernels, udev etc. meh
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14:23<Aslak>Why won
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14:23<Aslak>t this stupid client connect to efnet?
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14:36<straw>Hmm, what are common uses for setting a NIC into half duplex mode? I'm just curious.
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14:39<blarson>straw: Making things work when autonegotiation fails.
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14:42<straw>Aha, that would make sense. Thanks
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14:44<GoldElite>Quick question -- does anyone know how to unpack .sit files? I've installed macutils, but don't know where to go from there...=S
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15:03<enouf>stuffit expander files
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15:14<Aslak>WHY isn
15:14<Aslak>t this client connecting to efnet?
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15:14<Aslak>[21:15] [error] Closing Link: user__[~user@] (No authorization: -2)
15:14<Aslak>what does it all mean?
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15:16<Lenhix>Because you didn't tell it to do so?
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15:17<Aslak>I tried to to the best of my ability.
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15:19<Aslak>But if you could tell me what I am doing wrong, that would be swell, Lenhix.
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15:21<upsy>Aslak: try another efnet server
15:21<upsy>or just
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15:24<Lenhix>Like upsy says: try /connect
15:26<cahoot>looking for an identd?
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15:34<Lenhix>hi orca
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15:48<orca>i'm return now, i'm exit the one moment to dinner.
15:48<orca>good bye
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15:54<XTF>Hi. What setting should I increase to avoid syn cookies from being send?
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16:01<jt_>I hate new york..
16:01<jt_>wrong channel
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16:04<sd_>Hi! Which prog or script (name) to run to reconfigure network settings and hostname for Etch?
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16:04<stew>sd_: /msg dpkg interfaces ; /msg dpkg hostname
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16:05<jackyf>maybe, 'dpkg-reconfigure netbase'?
16:06<sd_>stew: hmm, didn't understand, sorry... ;-]
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16:09<sd_>stew: what does it mean "/msg" here?
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16:11<stew>oh, dpkg is gone
16:11<stew>aptitude: tell sd_ about interfaces
16:11<stew>aptitude: tell sd_ about hostname
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16:13<sd_>stew: ah, well, I know it all.. :) There was a hope that there is some kind of interface to do it more comfortable way... Well. Thank you anyway.
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16:20<XTF>Hi. What setting should I increase to avoid syn cookies from being send?
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16:23<lfaraone>I have a cisco router I am trying to connect to my computer's serial port, and don't know where the port is in /dev.
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16:23<starke>i have a question
16:24<starke>how do i merge multiple rar files into 1
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16:25<lfaraone>starke: don't use rar
16:25<stew>starke: why not use a free archive format instead?
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16:28<starke>stew because i dont have the original files only rars
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16:29<stew>starke: so why not extract the files from the rar and merge them into some other format?
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16:33<starke>stew thats the problem im having i cant extract them period
16:33<stew>starke: why not?
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16:34<starke>ark and file roller will only read part1.rar
16:34<starke>not the other parts
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16:34<eldowan>I've got a question about using chmod g+s on a directory. when I set it on a parent directory, new files created have the correct group name. however if I add new files in a pre-existing child directory the new file doesn't have the correct group id set. is this supposed to be the case, or am I doing something wrong? debian 4.0 2.6.18-4-686
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16:37<stew>starke: you might need to use the version of rar that costs money. where did you get these archives? can't you get the content in a better format?
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16:37<mora>I'm trying to install Debian Etch into an extended partition, and the installation worked fine until it tried to install Grub - which failed, taking my previous grub configuration out with it. I've reinstalled Grub and can get into my original windows/linux partitions, but manually adding an entry for the debian partition and attempting to boot into it results in the error "VFS: unable to mount root fs on unknown-block (hd0,0)" - any
16:37<mora>one know what I should do?
16:38<stew>eldowan: yes, just doing chmod g+s on a directory will not affect its existing contents
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16:40<eldowan>stew: so how would I make it so I could add a file to a directory 2 levels deep, and a new file have the correct group value?
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16:41<stew>eldowan: chmod g+s the directory 1 level deep
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16:42<stew>eldowan: i mean, the directory which will contain the new file
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16:42<leo_>hay alguien que hable español
16:42<stew>eldowan: you might want something like "find somedir -type d -exec chmod 2775 {} +"
16:43<stew>aptitude: es
16:43<aptitude>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
16:43<leo_>ok gracias
16:43<eldowan>stew: making sure I understand correctly, if I have hundreds of directories setup in a large tree, and want to make sure that the user value is a certain value, I should look for something like your post with fine domedir?
16:43-!-noflash [noflash@2001:5c0:8fff:ffff:8000:0:cda7:61ee] has joined #debian
16:43<stew>eldowan: user value or group owner?
16:43-!-leo_ [~leo@] has quit []
16:43<eldowan>sorry group
16:44<stew>eldowan: if you have a large directory tree, and you want to force the group ownership anywhere in the tree, you have to chmod each directory to have g+s
16:44<stew>eldowan: the find command i gave above would do that
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16:45<eldowan>stew: thats what I was afraid of. I was hoping there was some magic bullet. Thanks as always for the great information.
16:45<eldowan>has ! been replaced by aptitude: ?
16:46<ravenbird>I ain't no stinkin' bot. I am a finely tuned and hand crafted tool. Oh wait... I guess I am a bot (that you should not abuse).
16:46<stew>uhh, what is aptitude's trigger
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16:47<stew>eldowan: dpkg is only gone temporarily, aptitude has a backup of the database that dpkg uses
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16:48<eldowan>stew: aah. makes sense.
16:48<stew>i amazingly can't even find the trigger in the config files
16:50<eldowan>well thats goofy.
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17:01<mora>Okay, in the fresh Debian partition (which won't boot because grub failed to install) I can find the vmlinuz file - but no initrd. or rather, the initrd filename ends with .bak. Can the default Debian Etch kernel boot without an initrd?
17:04<mora>...wait, no. I'm obviously addled in the head, it's right there.
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17:13<enouf>mora: no, it won't
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17:14<enouf>it can be recompiled to not use one though
17:14<mora>enouf: i found it, thanks. apparently i was fooled by the actual file having a different icon in Nautilus than I expected. :/
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17:15<mora>so, now Debian boots until after it says it's loaded GDM. and then, the screen goes black and stays that way. am I correct in assuming this is an xorg configuration issue?
17:15-!-starnull [] has quit []
17:15<stew>mora: yes
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17:15<stew>mora: you might try "dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg" and/or check /var/log/Xorg.0.log for more specific errors
17:15<mora>stew: thanks. even if I can't ctrl+alt+f# to switch to a text console at this point?
17:16<enouf>mora: either a gdm-setup issue, or an xorg one - look for errors in where stew mentioned
17:16<stew>mora: do you know which X video driver you are using?
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17:16<mora>stew: as of now I can't actually boot into the system's shell, but I'll be able to check the errors from my ubuntu part.
17:17<enouf>mora: ouch - that's Etch kernel? which one? .18? if it's the backports .26 try hitting the insert key
17:17<enouf>mora: unless you mean the system is locked up - at which point sysrq might help
17:17<mora>stew: no. this is a fresh, brand-new install of Etch r5 that failed to install Grub and has never booted properly. :p
17:18<stew>mora: single user mode shouldn't start gdm which grub would label 'recovery' iirc
17:18<mora>enouf: will give you the kernel version in a moment, if that would help.
17:18<stew>enouf: insert key?
17:18<mora>stew: i added the entry to menu.lst myself, it doesn't have a label. can't I invoke that with the runlevel=1 param?
17:18<enouf>stew: yeah, /msg dpkg insert - 1st gen .26 kernels have an issue
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17:20<enouf>stew: maybe not specific to this .. actually - what happens is when one drops to console, they lose the functionality of numpad + arrows + some other keys, .. that is, until Insert is toggled
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17:20<stew>news to me
17:20<enouf>it was quickly fixed though stew
17:20<mora>weird. thanks for the tip, enouf.
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17:23<mora>Debian doesn't come with the nvidia driver preloaded, does it?
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17:24<mora>-of course it doesn't. whoops. does it have the "nv" open-source driver?
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17:25<enouf>ofcourse it does mora
17:26<enouf>in Xorg
17:26<mora>really? i thought Debian was very strict about nonfree soft-
17:26<mora>ah, i see.
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17:29<adb>mora: but xserver-xorg-video-nv is free soft
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17:29<mora>adb: right. i just thought enouf was talking about the nvidia driver.
17:29<mora>i understand now.
17:29<debacle>hi all ... how can i scan my network to look for wireles devices names ?
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17:30<enouf>mora: if you require the nvidia 3d driver, /msg dpkg nvidia
17:30<tomtomt>is there a way to have grub set your resolution of console to 1280x800 ?
17:30<tkoski>debacle: you mean like: iwlist scan ?
17:30<enouf>tomtomt: er .. try /msg dpkg fbcon resolution
17:31<enouf>awe crap
17:31<debacle>tkoski : iwlist scan report me wlan0 Interface doesn't support scanning : Network is down
17:31<enouf>tomtomt: install hwinfo, run hwinfo --framebuffer
17:31<tkoski>debacle: ifup wlan0 ?
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17:32<debacle>tkoski: Ignoring unknown interface wlan0=wlan0
17:32<enouf>to see available resolutions - then just add a vga=0x0317 line (or similar) to your kernel lines in menu.lst
17:32<enouf>or add it to #kopt=root= line and run update-grub
17:32<debacle>it's not configured in /etc/interfaces at the moment
17:32<tomtomt>enouf: ok thanks.
17:32<tkoski>debacle: iwconfig wlan0
17:33<tkoski>debacle: ?
17:33<enouf>tomtomt: the 0x0317 is hex fornat, you can also use decimal ... where 0x0317 == 791 , IIRC
17:33<debacle>tkoski: wlan0 IEEE 802.11 ESSID:""
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17:34<enouf>tomtomt: some sites ; and
17:34<tomtomt>enouf: it shows for me 0x037e so just do vga=0x37e ?
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17:34<enouf>tomtomt: for specifics about fb's and kernel support for each see /Documentation/fb/*
17:34<enouf>tomtomt: indeed
17:34<debacle>tkosky: Mode:Managed Frequency:2.452 GHz Access Point: Not-Associated
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17:35<tkoski>debacle: and it still does not supportscanning because network is down?
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17:36<debacle>tkoski: i do not know ... it the fist time i want to use wireles i always used eth0 :-)
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17:38<tkoski>debacle: try again iwlist scan
17:38<tomtomt>enouf: yea it stated i passed an undefined video mode using vga=0x037e
17:38<debacle>wlan0 Interface doesn't support scanning : Network is down
17:39<gsimmons>debacle: You need to raise the interface first (ifconfig wlan0 up), prior to running iwlist wlan0 scan.
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17:39<tkoski>debacle: yes, gsimmons is right. Are you getting anything?
17:40<tomtomt>and where is the bot? ;x
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17:40<debacle>gsimmons : ifconfig wlan0 up worked ... and iwconfig scan also work !!!
17:40<enouf>tomtomt: she must be on Holiday for a while
17:41<debacle>for some reasons ifup wlan0 do not worked
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17:41<enouf>tomtomt: try some other more basic ones then ... which kernel and which debian release
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17:46<tomtomt>enouf: i just installed linux back onto my laptop, so its a clean base install of latest debian stable. this is my first step im working on ;x been a while since ive had to resetup a system
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17:48<enouf>tomtomt: you might try a newer etchnhalf kernel (2.6.24) especially if a newer system and video card
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17:50<enouf>tomtomt: then still issues - try etch-backports .26 kernel, then if all else fails - i recommend you dist-upgrade to Lenny (especially for a laptop/dekstop)
17:50<mora>w00t. I'm booted into Debian, thanks for all the support.
17:50<tkoski>debacle: ifup wlan0 did not work i think if wlan0 is not set up in you /etc/network/interfaces
17:51<mora>only took me three hours, too. wait until my wife hears what a genius i am.
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17:51<tomtomt>enouf: nah ill figure it out ;x and i usually build my own kernels from
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17:54<tomtomt>enouf: and im sure i can get the right resolution under x with the 915resolution pkg
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17:56<eljefe>I hate the slowness with which my Iceweasel opens, is there anything I can do to speed this up on KDE? Preload instances or something?
17:57<enouf>tomtomt: in Etch 915resolution will help/work - in Lenny 915resolution is gone, i think b/c the intel and i810 driver code was all merged into just intel now
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17:59<enouf>tomtomt: but.. if you are using a custom kernel, that might explain why the error of undefined resolution - see if decimal also gives same error
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18:00<tomtomt>enouf: im using the base 2.6.18 that was installed, havent touched that stuff yet. but i recall before 855resoultion fixed my issue via console after i installed it, but this 915resolution doesnt seem to change the size in console, before X starts.
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18:01<mora>okay, this is highly odd. about the only app that will run from the menu in Debian (AMD64) is the terminal. anything else causes my pointer to change to the "timer" for several seconds, and a "Launching..." bar pops up on the taskbar - but then the timer ends and the taskbar button closes, and the app in question hasn't launched. what's going on?
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18:02<enouf>tomtomt: have you tried "fbset" as mentioned in the 1st URL i gave you?
18:03<enouf>tomtomt: the console and other ttys are still running even when X is loaded
18:05<enouf>mora: if this is in X, or gnome, whatever - try "update-config --config x-cursor-theme" as root - install some themes
18:05<enouf>mora: sorry - i meant
18:05<enouf>~$ update-alternatives --config x-
18:05<enouf>x-cursor-theme x-session-manager x-terminal-emulator x-window-manager x-www-browser
18:06<enouf>mora: for gnome/nautilus - try System > Preferences > * to setup prefs
18:06<enouf>mora: also see gconf-editor
18:06<mora>alright, thanks. rebooting solved the problem, so i'm guessing it had something to do with my xorg edits.
18:06<mora>okay, thanks.
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18:07<ravenbird>You want to reboot for WHAT?? If it's not a new kernel or a hardware change, you probably don't need to reboot. Ask dpkg about <qotd2> (/msg dpkg qotd2).
18:08<eljefe>[Error] dpkg: No such nick/channel.
18:08<dmoerner> aptitude dpkg
18:08<aptitude>somebody said dpkg was the program used by debian to install and remove packages, "man dpkg". Also ask me about <apt howto>. The main info bot in #debian is also called dpkg; ask me about <dpkgbot>.
18:08<dmoerner> aptitude dpkgbot
18:08<aptitude>Please visit to learn how to effectively search the factoids database for FAQ, and not flood in the channel with !tell <who> about <what>. Also see <msg the bot>. We ask that you learn to search for yourself first, unless it is a specific problem. Many questions are asked repeatedly, and the factoid database can be of great help to you. Ask me about <search dpkg>.
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18:08<dmoerner>it must be offline at the moment
18:09<mora>ravenbird: thanks, but given that rebooting often does solve configuration propagation problems and my system isn't working well enough to really be "in use" yet it isn't a problem.
18:09<ravenbird>gern geschehen, mora
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18:13<tomtomt>enouf: yea im looking at the fbset stuff currently but having issues with it, no /dev/fb devices, and MAKEDEV fb creates them in /dev/.static/dev due to udev running tryin to figure out how to fix that
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18:16<enouf>tomtomt: everybody using udev should have all possible /dev within /dev/.static/udev - those are meant for udev use, not user use - if no /dev/fb exists there;s something else wrong - usually a vga= boot option forces vesafb to load which then generates a /dev/fb0
18:16<enouf>tomtomt: dmesg grep vesafb
18:17<enouf>tomtomt: dmesg | grep vesafb
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18:18<enouf>as an example - i use vga=791 though (very standard)
18:19<enouf>tomtomt: grepping for fb0 yields;
18:19<enouf>[ 0.000000] mapped APIC to ffffb000 (fee00000)
18:19<enouf>[ 3.759961] fb0: VESA VGA frame buffer device
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18:20<atmosphere>why doesnt debian boot ?
18:20<enouf>tomtomt: are you force loading another separate fb?
18:20<enouf>atmosphere: because you're a windows weenie ;-)
18:21<tomtomt>enouf: nah i just cant get any vga= line to work, but im thinkin that there is no way to do a 1280x800 via it, and i have to go down to 1024x768
18:21<timo_>hello. is openssl s_client supposed to verify the server certificate based on what you have in /etc/ssl/certs, without a -CAfile or a -CApath having to be specified?
18:22<atmosphere>I just installed debian 4, and when I try to reboot the system, it dont work.
18:22<atmosphere>anyone can help me with it ?
18:22<enouf>tomtomt: i asked you to try various vga= options .. to home in on the issue
18:22<timo_>I can't get ssl connections to work in either lynx or alpine, and I have to hold hands when I use s_client
18:23<enouf>tomtomt: might try uvesafb if applicable (with .24 and better kernels) - or your sepcific video card fb device
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18:26<timo_>in other words, is ssl supposed to work out of the box in apps like lynx and alpine, provided that ca-certificates is installed?
18:27<Internat>so dm-crypt + luks.. is it worth it as apposed to just dmcrypt
18:27<Internat>with luks can you still put it into the fstab for mounting?
18:27<tomtomt>enouft: yea 791 works guess that will have to do for now til i get ambitious
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18:31<tomtomt>but yea im not used to udev ;x i really havent done much with linux since usb has come out. thats how outdated i am ;x
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18:44<enouf>atmosphere: what happens?
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18:45<enouf>atmosphere: you made it through the entire installation - then to the reboot time part?
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18:47<meadow>hi, trying to install kvm-source from experimental. the version is 79+dfsg-2, but apt-get install kvm-source_79+dfsg-2 does not work
18:49<meadow>it claims it is not available
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18:51<themill>meadow: use = not _ tp
18:51<themill>to specify the version number
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18:51<meadow>thank you
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18:52<meadow>need the vde support of the newer version
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18:52<themill>enouf: fat fingers
18:52<enouf>heh ok
18:53<meadow>just discovered vde yesterday. it looks really cool.
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18:53<enouf>what's vde about?
18:53<meadow>its a virtual network switch basically.
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18:54<meadow>so you can not only run VMs, you can build actually clusters of them on different subnets, etc.
18:55<meadow>this can be a problem with the regular user-mode method of networking under kvm, using brctl, etc.
18:56<enouf>meadow: bingo ;-) cool - might want to check out this video even ;-)
18:57<atmosphere>I asked earlier that After a new installation of Debian 4.0 the dont boot, It only say that the OS cant be found ?
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18:57<enouf>meadow: during the talk, he mentions about load-balancing across various vms and subnets, - yet working in tandem even, etc
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18:58<enouf>atmosphere: do you have another OS installed as well?
18:58<atmosphere>No I deleted it
18:58<enouf>atmosphere: did you remove the CD or floppy?
18:59<enouf>atmosphere: deleted how
18:59<atmosphere>I only have CD
18:59<meadow>i think many employers would be totally blown away if you could walk into their office and show them a complete virtualized cluster
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18:59<atmosphere>I put a vista in and deleted it with that then I put the debian in and installed it
19:00<meadow>a full cluster with 10's of thousands of $$ of hardware emulated on a laptop - really cool
19:00<atmosphere>did you understand
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19:02<enouf>atmosphere: almost ...
19:02<meadow>ready to deploy the cluster? ok, i'll just scp the VM's over here...
19:02<atmosphere>ok, what did I do wrong ?
19:03<atmosphere>let me take it again
19:03<enouf>atmosphere: you might want to ensure your BIOS is set to boot from CDROM as 1st - then HDD 2nd ... and remove all removable media (CDs/Floppies etc)something like that .. if the installation was successful, your HDD should boot - otherwise see "rescuegui" boot from the install CD
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19:04<meadow>have you guys seen the latest thinkpad 17" ultra model with quad-core and nvidia cuda processor?
19:04<enouf>atmosphere: did you partition your disk during install? did you use any RAID or LVM? or crypt choices?
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19:05*enouf goes for a while - gotta run atmosphere - hope you work it out
19:06<atmosphere>When I installed it. I had 2 HDD, one of them SATA(system) and one of them IDE, for storage. and A cd-rom
19:06<atmosphere>yes I did partition during the installation
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19:36<Wooly>anyone around to help me with a wee SMB streaming problem i'm having?
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19:37<interbird>Wooly, dunno, SMB as in Server Message Block?
19:37<Wooly>sorry SMB as in samba
19:37<interbird>Tell me your prob
19:37<Wooly>ahh ok, i didn't realise they were the same
19:37<interbird>Samba is an implementation of SMB/CIFS
19:38<Wooly>when copying files onto my share, i get ideal results setting the server options for the send and receive buffers to 8192
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19:38<Wooly>but when streaming off the share, i need to modify the config to 4096, otherwise the video is choppy as anything
19:39<interbird>where are you streaming from and what are you streaming to ans what does uname -r say ?
19:40<Wooly>kernel 2.6.18-486
19:40<Wooly>and streaming from debian box, to MacBook
19:40<Wooly>specifically, VLC
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19:43<Wooly>debian box runs a software RAID5 with Timing cached reads of ~720MB/sec and buffered disk reads of ~180MB/sec
19:43<interbird>ok, and what is running on the MacBook? Tiger, Leopard ? and what do you use on the Mac to connect, Samba for mac or .. ?
19:43<interbird>and, do you also get slower performance just copying a big file from Debian to Mac ?
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19:44<Wooly>MacBook is running leopard, with the standard samba for mac
19:44<Wooly>i'll copy a large file off, and see if I get similar results
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19:46<Wooly>700MB file in ~40seconds
19:46<Wooly>that's on a 1Gigabit link
19:46<Wooly>so that's what about 18MB/sec
19:47<interbird>did you change the buffer parameters on both smb.conf on the mac and on debian? possibly blocking/de-blocking might be a problem. And what are the samba versions? mac & debian
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19:48<Wooly>uno seconde svp
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19:49<Wooly>here we have serverside [global] stanza
19:49<Wooly>how do i check the version of samba again? hah
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19:49<interbird>on debian: dpkg --list|grep samba
19:51<interbird>on mac: i dunno, i'm not too familiar with it, but if you can open a terminal and give some command like /usr/sbin.smbd -V ...
19:51<interbird>or wherever your smbd resides on your mac...
19:52<interbird>etch, ok
19:52<Wooly>smbd is 3.0.25b-apple in leopard
19:52<interbird>and both interfaces, on the mac and on debian, are 1G?
19:53<Wooly>they are both gigabit ports, connected with a gigabit cable
19:53<Wooly>what's the command to check the link again?
19:53<abrotman>ethtool or mii-tool
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19:53<interbird>try to find your smb.conf on the mac, make a backup of it, and set the buffer-parameters the same as the ones on the debian-box
19:55<Wooly>speed is 1000Mb/s on debian link
19:55<Wooly>and on OS X side too
19:55<Wooly>i'll restart smbd on the mac
19:55<interbird>first check that the buffer allocation is the same on both configs then restart both samba's
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19:58<interbird>now try streaming with VLC again
19:58<Wooly>jerky as anything
19:59<interbird>kee, found this link:
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20:00<IceGuest_75>What fun.
20:01<IceGuest_75>Making scripts to sync data from a RAMDrive to a storage device.
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20:01<IceGuest_75>The ram drive is /dev/shm, right?
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20:03<Wooly>thanks for that link interbird, i'm just working through it now :)
20:04<interbird>Wooly: Kee, sorry I cannot help you further cause I'm not too familiar with Mac. Possibly googling for the streaming prob will find you a solution.
20:05<Wooly>that link looks quite promising, thanks for the help :)
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20:10<interbird>abrotman: Is there an easy way to determine what card is connected to what interface (besides tracking the MAC) ?
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20:11<abrotman>ifconfig ?
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20:11<IceGuest_75>austronut: you there?
20:12<interbird>not realy, it does not show what card is used for what interface
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20:15<unreal9812>could anyone help me out with vsftpd?
20:16<interbird>abrotman: sometimes when i install debian with 2 cards (eth0:intel,eth1:3com at deb-install) they get switched around on the final installation. Is there a way to determine what card is used for what interface and is it possible to swap them ?
20:16<abrotman>dmesg .. ifrename .. udev
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20:18<interbird>abrotman: thanks, ifrename i did not know.
20:19<unreal9812>how would I find out which user is running a process?
20:20<abrotman>ps aux
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20:21<interbird>ps -u user -- where user is the username
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20:21<unreal9812>if a process is running under ftp how would i terminate it?
20:22<interbird>ps -ef | grep ftp
20:22<unreal9812>hmmm still says it running
20:23<unreal9812>somehow vsftpd is running but I dont know where from, I only have one user + root and ive tried stopping it from both with no luck
20:23-!-jrv2kgts [] has joined #debian
20:24<interbird>ps -ef " grep ftp then kill -9 processid or try killall ftp
20:24<interbird>or killall -9 ftp
20:24<amphi>enouf: you missed your cue in the Other Channel :(
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20:25<interbird>ps -ef | grep ftp then kill -9 processid or try killall ftp
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20:28<interbird>abrotman: ifrename complains about missing /etc/iftab -- (lenny 2.6.26)
20:28<dpkg>As of version 0.090, udev has the ability to statically rename ethernet cards based on MAC address. The addresses are configured in /etc/udev/rules.d/z25_persistent-net.rules . If you want the mappings to change, edit that file. See <forcedeth mac>. As of version 0.124-1 the file is called /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules .
20:28<abrotman>then user that last file to set which is which
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20:30<interbird>ah, ok! that seems like what i was looking for, to bind ethn to a mac. thanks !
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20:32<interbird>one little question out of curiousity, why is the dpkg help command !z25 ?
20:33<abrotman>that's the oldname
20:35<unreal9812>interbird I tried killing the processes manually and with killall command but it still shows them running
20:35<interbird>but as a zombie perhaps ?
20:35<unreal9812>nevermind I think they terminated
20:36<unreal9812>Thank you very much for your help
20:36<AzaTht>do anyone knows about any project planning to make en über terminal emulator?
20:36<dpkg>rumour has it, ifrename is a utility which sets interface names based on parameters such as MAC address. Very handy if different kernels or kernel modules assign different identifiers to your interfaces, or just to make your firewall rules more readable. ifrename is semi-deprecated in favor of z25; see <z25> for more.
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20:38<interbird>abrotman: you say z25 is the old name but !ifrename depreciates it ?
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20:38<abrotman>no .. ifrename is different
20:38-!-nomadium [] has joined #debian
20:39<interbird>i'm talking about dpkg help abrotman, like !ifrename depreciates it's use for !z25 while the latter is old ?
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20:41<interbird>abrotman: !ifrename gives info like !z25, z25 is the old name, that makes !ifrename older? -- I'm trying to conclude what's the best !dpkg command if i ever have to help people with a problem such as mine
20:41-!-IceGuest_75 is now known as IceGuest_75[A]
20:41*IceGuest_75[A] is now away - Reason : Auto-Away after 30 minutes
20:43<abrotman>!tell IceGuest_75[A] about away
20:44<abrotman>interbird: z25/z90 are part of udev
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20:46<unreal9812>I have another question, I am using vsftpd connecting through TLS/SSL and I can't delete anyfiles nor change the CHMOD through cuteftp, I have writing enabled, what am I missing?
20:46-!-cgreco [] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via]
20:47<interbird>access-priviliges on the server running the ftp ?
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20:49<unreal9812>so that would be vsftpd on the remote server correct?
20:50<interbird>abrotman: i know that know, but i was talking about !dpkg help on #debian; no matter, thanks for giving me some stuff to dive into...
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20:50<interbird>on the remote server, yes
20:50<interbird>if the file-system does not allow you to write, you cannot write...
20:51<unreal9812>so i changed the unmask priv to 777, i have write enabled, I am logging in as a local user
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20:53<interbird>to umask 777 means that all bits set in this mask get cleared while manipulating files...
20:54<interbird>normal umask is 0022 -- meaning w-bits are cleared for group and others; umask (0)777 means all bits are cleared for user,group,others...
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20:56<interbird>you might want to keep umask at 0022 and chmod a+r the stuff you want to be able to read using ftp
20:56<interbird>(on the remote server)
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20:56<unreal9812>All i want to be able to be able is delete files off my server
20:56<unreal9812>wow lol
20:56<unreal9812>all i want to do is be able to delete files off my server
20:57<interbird>then you need to chmod +w for the user you are connecting as... (lol)
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21:02<unreal9812>ok im obviously new to linux, how would I do that?
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21:16<unreal9812>interbird sorry to bother you again but I'm still stuck, I still get get an error saying I dont have permission to delete even when i login as root
21:17-!-fwix [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:17<interbird>did you read the site i posted ?
21:18<interbird>what does uname -r say ?
21:18-!-znyto [] has joined #debian
21:19<interbird>and on the remote system ?
21:19-!-goshawk [~goshawk@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:19<unreal9812>that is on the remote system
21:19<interbird>then on your local system ?
21:20<unreal9812>im running windows on my local system
21:20<interbird>sorry ?
21:20-!-bo [] has joined #debian
21:20<unreal9812>what do you mean by my local system?
21:22<interbird>the system you are using trying to get access to the remote system running linux 2.6.18-6-686
21:22<interbird>that is windows?
21:22<bo>Got 8G Mem installed in my PC. Any idea why Xubuntu 8.10 x64 show 7.2 in total?
21:23<Internat>is there a way to find out whats compiled into the default debian kernel that im running ( if /proc/config.gz is missing?
21:23<interbird>Internat: /boot/config... may be present
21:23<unreal9812>im connecting through cuteftp 8
21:23<abrotman>interbird: and your kernel is out of date .. badly
21:23<Internat>yeah im about to upgrade it now..
21:24<interbird>abrotman: my kernel? which one? i have several...
21:25<abrotman>sorry ..i meant Internat
21:25<Internat>yeah i figured you meant me :)
21:25<interbird>unreal9812: did you establish your problem to be on the remote Debian system or on your Windows system ? Did you try with a Debian client ?
21:27<unreal9812>no i havent tried with debian
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21:28<interbird>unreal9812: can you login to the remote server using ssh ?
21:29-!-koi [~koi@] has joined #debian
21:29<unreal9812>lol problem solved thankyou, I guess I just need to login SSH to delete
21:29<unreal9812>thanks for putting up with me
21:30<interbird>unreal9812: sure, buts ssh is not ftp, but if that solves your problem... fine :-)
21:31<unreal9812>i can still download and upload through ftp, all i needed to do was delete =)
21:32<interbird>unreal9812: now you are going ftp again... since we have not solved that problem, and i advice you to read-up on ftp, you might want to use scp to copy files...
21:33-!-administrator [] has joined #debian
21:34<interbird>unreal9812: be sure to use the -p flag of scp to preserve file-times...
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21:34<interbird>unreal9812: man scp tells you what you want to know (on the remote server)
21:36<interbird>unreal9812: What do you need Windows for ?
21:36<interbird>(if i may ask)
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21:37<unreal9812>lol to save me headaches like this, windows makes things easier (for the most part)
21:39<interbird>then why don't you replace this debian server you are ftp'ing to with windows ?
21:40<unreal9812>im renting the server, and windows server is like $30 extra per month
21:41-!-S_WO [] has joined #debian
21:41<unreal9812>what are the advatages of scp over ftp?
21:41<interbird>ahh, so you are a "cheapy", bothering this #debian channel with your windows-client headaches ?
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21:42<dr|z3d>scp is more secure.
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21:43<unreal9812>im sorry... I wasn't trying to make people mad/irritated
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21:43<dr|z3d>unreal9812: Windows is only easier because you're familiar with it, NOT because it's easier per se.
21:44<dr|z3d>unreal9812: Try updating all installed apps on your system automatically with Windows. I think you'll find it's not easy (read pretty much impossible). Just one example.
21:44<abrotman>i thought there was a third party version tracker for win32 land ..
21:45<interbird>I'm not irritated, just amused... (lol)
21:45<dr|z3d>There is, but it's not comprehensive.
21:45<unreal9812>i understand that, if you know how to use it linux is far superior however i obviously lack that knowledge
21:46<dr|z3d>Linux is getting easier to use by the minute. All you need is patience to learn the necessary skills. We all have to start somewhere :)
21:46<unreal9812>im trying to learn, ive only worked on linux for 2 weeks
21:47-!-GPenguin [] has joined #debian
21:47<interbird>some like the new-style word-icons, some like the old-style; me? i like the free-style open-office ones; if i may say so. whatever color they have, i'll always find them...
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21:48<interbird>A Debian System is "Evergreen"
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21:49<abrotman>two weeks?!
21:49<interbird>oops, a minute passed... one week
21:50<unreal9812>Okay well thanks for your help
21:50<interbird>you are welcome
21:52<interbird>don't forget to try Linux from a live cd, like ubuntu or mint and one day we'll see you at Debian :-)
21:52-!-kingsley [~kingsley@] has joined #debian
21:52<unreal9812>what exactly is a live cd?
21:52<dpkg>methinks livecd is an operating system that can boot and run directly from CD. Linux-based examples are Knoppix and Ubuntu. Useful as a rescue cd or for showing off to your geek friends.Debian may one day have its own LiveCD: or or #debian-live on, or
21:53<interbird>it lets yoy boot a linux system completely from cd, not fast, but good enough to get a taste, without installing it
21:53<abrotman>yoy yoy!
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21:53<unreal9812>ill probably give ubuntu a shot when i graduate
21:53<interbird>joy :-)
21:53<unreal9812>just dual boot
21:53<unreal9812>to ironically have windows as my backup
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21:56<interbird>unreal9812: give ubuntu a shot and i bet you can trash windows; and when you learn more you eventually will get across debian... Just try :-)
21:56<unreal9812>so ubuntu is like linux with training wheels?
21:57-!-dr4k3 [~dr4k3@] has joined #debian
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21:57<unreal9812>how do ubuntu and debian differ?
21:57<interbird>debian is raw
21:58<interbird>ubuntu is with "point on the i"
21:58-!-bo [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:58<unreal9812>so ubuntu is just more graphical and has more eye candy?
21:58<interbird>ubuntu is what yo want if you want to change from windows tolinux
21:59-!-mode/#debian [+l 351] by debhelper
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21:59<craigevil>bah debian isnt any harder to learn/use than ubuntu
21:59<interbird>for you? yes
21:59<interbird>craigevil: that's not entirely true...
22:00<interbird>and you know it
22:00<craigevil>yes it is, besides ubuntu is OT in #debian
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22:01<unreal9812>okay thanks for all the help, I have to go study for oragnic chemistry now, dont you all get too jealous!
22:01-!-barnes [] has joined #debian
22:01<interbird>unreal9812: Eye Candy?
22:04<interbird>Getting common wifi working in Debian is not as easy as with Ubuntu -- sure we are OT here, but we have been for some while giving a doze-user advice...
22:04<unreal9812>im assuming thats not stock ubuntu
22:04-!-githogori [] has joined #debian
22:04<interbird>no, just like your windows ftp is not stock...
22:05<craigevil>wifi worked out of the box on my Eee and compiz is just a couple of apt-get install takes 2 miutes to install
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22:06<unreal9812>lol the clip at the end is epic
22:06<interbird>for you... that does not mean "in common it works o-o-t-b"... don't compare your situation with a common install, with common user on common hardware; no offence meant.
22:06<interbird>yeh, isn't it :)
22:07<craigevil>only reason ubuntu "may" be easier is because it comes with non-free drivers that are just as easy to install and setup in debian
22:08<interbird>unreal9812: Like craigevil says... Additional components are just an "apt-get install" away... Want a graphical package manager? Synaptic is your friend.
22:09<unreal9812>okay cool, ill def setup a partition and play around with it
22:09<unreal9812>but i need to get some studying done i have an o-chem final monday
22:09<interbird>unreal9812: You can trash your windows system once you get to know Linux; i'm sure of that.
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22:11<unreal9812>thanks again for everything, and hopefully ill see you guys on the other side soon
22:11-!-philsf [~philsf@] has joined #debian
22:11<interbird>be waiting...
22:11<RIVE>Its, easy.
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22:12<enouf>if you know quite a bit about pc hardware, choose expert mode - see f1-f10 in the installer boot
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22:13<enouf>interbird: k package manager is yet another gui pkg manager, if one so chooses to use kde - all gui pkg managers were buggy when i tried them - but that was around sarge time
22:14<enouf>unreal9812: if you read one document only - read the debian-reference
22:15<interbird>craigevil: Again, you are ventilating "your" experiance which does not cover "peoples" experiances; on this channel we all know Debian is superior to Ubuntu; the art is to get Windows people to try Linux. That may be OT for you, but still worth wile and interesting. Don't you agree ?
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22:16<craigevil>take a look at the huge thread on or the, 9 out of 10 people say they have no problem recommending debian to a linux newb
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22:16<enouf>interbird: why do you care about 'windows' people?
22:16<interbird>enouf: I know... Shit, one thing confusing to a windows-departer is to overload her/him with choises... Synaptic is ok.
22:16<craigevil>sorry i wouldnt recommend any of the ubuntu distros to someone i hated
22:17<enouf>interbird: most only want to use linux for their exploitive purposes - IMO - and want to use it's superior server abilities - and they want it for free
22:17<interbird>enouf: good question; i think it is because i believe that all people have the right to make their computer do what they want and windows-users are the lesser in that category...
22:17<RIVE>Windows people could be Linux people in the future.
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22:18<interbird>RIVE: that was my aim...
22:18<abrotman>and vice versa
22:18<enouf>yep - and they can also be GUI only linux users - never understanding or delving into the *nix philosophy - not caring - not giving back - etc
22:19<craigevil>interbird: im not a linux geek nor do i know much about computers, i switched to linux when Xp ate 4k mp3s, my first experience was kanotix then i switched to debian/sidux, i know just enough to be able to install
22:19-!-znyto [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:19<abrotman>enouf: is that really so bad?
22:19<enouf>i see so so many of them .. using bloated DEs .. asking how do i set this feature through tjhe GUI ...
22:19<enouf>abrotman: kind of ... it's a trade-off
22:20<abrotman>enouf: since they're a user, they may not want to know the internals, but by using F/OSS software, they further the goals of the people that do care about internals and freedom of data/software etc
22:21<enouf>abrotman: let's put it this way - and this expands way beyond just software and computers - many people just don't realize the unintended consequences of their (daily) actions and choices
22:21-!-mentor [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:21<enouf>some just don't care ..
22:21<abrotman>enouf: sure, but a user is a user, they don't have to understand all the nitty-gritty
22:22<interbird>enouf: I understand what you mean, but don't forget that Linux can never be taking advantage of in that way. If one refuses to learn it will be a mystery to them. The point is that a computer is hardware and software determines it's behaviour. With free software control of hardware is in reach of the customer. How the customer uses that concept is no part of the free-software principle.
22:22<enouf>and they don't know how hard it is to get each nitty-gritty to work with the other nitty-gritty - they've been spoon fed using MS and expect things that they shouldn't
22:23<abrotman>you mean people shouldn't expect things to work ?
22:23<amphi>enouf: luckily, you are here to disappoint them ;)
22:23<enouf>interbird: but even a most simple, non-knowing user can obtain the benefits of GNU/Linux's superiority in the server area - for example - just the lack of constant malware
22:24<enouf>amphi: you've found me out! :-P
22:24<abrotman>right .. because it's better to let morons run servers, than to run a desktop
22:25<enouf>abrotman: let? we let all the time ;-)
22:25<enouf>it's the nature of FOSS
22:25<interbird>enouf: true; doen't it give a great feeling to shelter them from this harm ? Or do you feel such users mis-use the technology because you helped building it ?
22:26<enouf>interbird: i am no dev, not even a coder - but i dislike bloat and frameworks in general
22:26<RIVE>I'm not even a programmer.
22:26<abrotman>frameworks are bad ?
22:26<RIVE>I don like to program.
22:27<enouf>abrotman: ... don't even
22:27<abrotman>you said it
22:28<interbird>enouf: well, get real... pretty pictures while installing I could consider bloat; but a user that cab use a free software-system I consider a WIN. Feel free to define your context in which what is "bloat" and what not...
22:28<enouf>interbird: there is no reason whatsover that a full mature linux distro + a Desktop Env should not run awesomely fast on a p2 with say 320MB RAM
22:28<enouf>interbird: i'm as real as they come sweety
22:28*abrotman doesn't see why frameworks are bad
22:29*enouf points abrotman at java for starters
22:29<abrotman>that's not a framework .. nice try though
22:29<enouf>amphi: disease!
22:29<interbird>enouf: We are not talking about specifics; I have a Pentium 10 running an 20 GHz that blasts that away; still my user is searching for this blue word-icon... Users must be *educated* since they have been brainwashed for over two decades !!
22:30<amphi>abrotman: you're right, of course
22:32-!-stevecotton [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:33<interbird>enouf: sure you are, what i meant was it's not about technical shit; it's about a user's perception of a computer. No offence meant. Users think a computer is a toaster and that is what they want it to be.
22:34-!-JavonR [~javon.rec@] has quit []
22:34<enouf>then someone should be selling more toasters - with FOSS hardware that contain FOSS drivers
22:35<enouf>interbird: this bullshit about licensing/patents/copyright is more of a mess than sorting audio codecs
22:35<enouf>and naturally - it's all about big money - what isn't
22:35-!-Luzbel [~gaston@] has joined #debian
22:36<Luzbel>buenas noches
22:36-!-cirinho [~ssa@] has joined #debian
22:36<interbird>free software isn't...
22:36<interbird>and of course we all have to live...
22:36<Luzbel>¿alguien habla español?
22:37<interbird>but in proportion...
22:37-!-Luzbel [~gaston@] has quit []
22:37<RIVE>Luzbel, go to #debian-es
22:37<interbird>not like someone like gates having the potential to save a complete country in hungar
22:37<cirinho>i need help
22:37<cirinho>to redirect in iptables
22:38<cirinho>ports tcp 1024 to 5000 for my ip in my local network
22:39<interbird>first do a man iptables
22:39<abrotman>cirinho: did you read the docs at
22:39<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
22:39<abrotman>oh well
22:40<cirinho>abrotman i don´t understand
22:40<cirinho>i only speak portuguese, my englhis is very bad
22:40<abrotman>there is lots of documentation at
22:40<dpkg>Por favor use #debian-pt para ajuda em portugues ou #debian-br para ajuda em portugues do brasil. ( /join #debian-pt )
22:40<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
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22:49<interbird>enouf: Also, this us patent-system is flawed to the bone. Recently I read on slash-dot that someone had a patent on a very trivial thing; something we all used for eons but now it's "invented"... Since patents are an obvious "stand-in-the-way" for innovation, how on earth can MS say they innovate? They are the biggest copier around with no innovation whatsoever...
22:49<widfl>hi, 有说中文的没? :)
22:51<widfl>only english? i am not good at english
22:52<abrotman>we're not good at uh .. chinese?
22:52<Solver>interbird: My feeling is the patent system is near collapse or has collapsed. It's become farsical
22:52<interbird>what is you language?
22:52<dpkg>i guess cn is China, or for help in chinese please /j #debian-zh, or for help in chinese please /j #debian-zh Please use UTF-8, for IRC help see | Qt/KDE è¿æ¸¡æå¼å§ï¼è¯¦æ请é读
22:52<interbird>Solver: My thoughts...
22:52<abrotman>widfl: or you can try here in english
22:52<enouf>interbird: MPoop would die if users would stop using/buying it
22:52*abrotman sends interbird to #debian-offtopic
22:52<widfl>yes, cn is china
22:54<widfl>hi, dpkg, thank u
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22:55<interbird>enouf: Sorry, cannot reply; i've been sent to off-topic...
22:56<abrotman>interbird: he's there too
22:57<widfl> debian-zh few people
22:58<abrotman>then try here in english
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22:59<interbird>abrotman: new channel tab is failing... don't want to relog and identify again. i'll keep shut :-)
22:59<widfl>abrotman , r u from a english country? hehe
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23:00<abrotman>yes, i am
23:00<widfl>r u good at using debian?
23:01<abrotman>some might say
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23:04<enouf>widfl: he know a few things - but he has an issue with saying; ok i see your point ...
23:04<abrotman>enouf: really .. shuddup
23:04<widfl>abormtman, how long u use it? many years?
23:04<enouf>haha .. you weenie
23:04<abrotman>you spend too much time talking to Nyle
23:05<abrotman>you're starting to show his interpersonal skills
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23:05<abrotman>widfl: a long time
23:05<enouf>i haven't even been using irc lately other than you have seen you weenie
23:05<widfl>enouf, r u a expert? hehe
23:05<abrotman>widfl: do you have an actual question?
23:05<enouf>widfl: i have my moments - why? wanna get together?
23:05<abrotman>enouf: that doesn't even make sense. His english skills are affecting you too :)
23:06<enouf>abrotman: it makes sense to the intended recipient
23:06<enouf>no - so stop butting your nose in
23:06<abrotman>right .. makes no sense
23:07<abrotman>widfl: what's your actual question
23:07<interbird>widfl: what is your prob ?
23:07<enouf>widfl: i must admit though - you need to /msg dpkg ask
23:07<dpkg>Test Failed.
23:07<enouf>ok - she's online
23:07<widfl> when i want to type someting, i must think many time for how to say my mind, u all r very quickly
23:08<interbird>then type slowly...
23:08<widfl> thank you, enouf
23:08<interbird>first thing is to type your problem as good as you can
23:09<abrotman>as well? :)
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23:09<interbird>yes, as well
23:09<interbird>(infected... :)
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23:10<widfl> i want to know why zhcon can not use on lenny's console.
23:10<widfl> it will lead to system dead
23:12<interbird>does zhcon have features midnight commander misses? if not then try: apt-get install mc
23:12<abrotman>!info zhcon lenny
23:12<dpkg>zhcon: (A Fast Console CJK System Using FrameBuffer), section utils, is optional. Version: 1:0.2.6-5.2 (lenny), Packaged size: 4311 kB, Installed size: 7436 kB
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23:14<widfl> i see someone says that, zhcon can not support by the lenny's kernel. because zhcon have not change to support it.
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23:15<interbird>what do you use zhcon for ?
23:15<abrotman>widfl: did you read /usr/share/doc/zhcon/*
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23:16<enouf>widfl: system dead?
23:16<widfl> just want to get the feeling using chinese console. hehe
23:17<widfl> maybe framebuffer cause this
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23:19<enouf>widfl: oh .. maybe this might be useful info
23:20<widfl> when type zhcon, everythin can not response
23:20<widfl> the only thing can do is reboot laptop
23:20<widfl> press power key on keyboard
23:20<enouf>widfl: /msg dpkg sysrq (to fix / work through a non-responsive system)
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23:23<widfl>enouf, thank you, not only me have this problem, i see other guy's same problem after they upgrade their system to lenny, then they can not use zhcon
23:23<dpkg>well, reportbug is used to submit bugs to the Debian <BTS>. Install reportbug, then run reportbug. Or on the web,, or see for some general info about using reportbug and/or for <debian-installer> bug reporting Ask me about <report-bugs>.
23:23<abrotman>i didn't see a bug reported about it breaking the system
23:24<abrotman>that's your hint to file one
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23:24<abrotman>yeah .. i still didn't see one
23:24<Khwerz>hello, does someone know how to install info files?
23:24<abrotman>Khwerz: they probably already are installed, what are you looking for?
23:25<interbird>i count 2
23:25<Khwerz>abrotman: im trying to give a new dir to the bash file
23:26<Khwerz>the file it poiints to doesnt exist
23:26<abrotman>a new dir to the bash file ?
23:26<widfl> another quesiton, when kernel will support chinese, so that we don't need software such as zhcon to use chinese in console.
23:27<interbird>use red-flag linux in the mean time
23:27<Khwerz>abrotman: yes when one looks at the main directory with all the info files installed the *(bash) file it links to doesnt exist
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23:28<abrotman>you mean in /usr/share/info/ ?
23:29<widfl> ok, thank you all, i have to leave to get my lunch. thank u again.
23:30<interbird>Khwerz: bash is the shell, while it is a file, it is an executable file and has not much to do with info-files; info-files are displayed with the command: info and the equivalent to info is the command: man
23:31<interbird>so, info ls would display information about how to use ls, like man ls would...
23:31<Khwerz>abrotman: i mean using install-info... the man page doesnt say much but nvm it seems texinfo has som info on it
23:31<abrotman>uh ok
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23:32<Khwerz>interbird: man is like a page... info is like a book... thats a long way to go as an equivalent
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23:34<interbird>Khwerz: True, as long a way from bash being a regular file. Info should be installed and operational...
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23:35<Khwerz>interbird: bash-doc doesnt work btw this is why i have to go about manually installing the info file
23:35<Khwerz>and worst of all it leads to a nonexistant .pdf
23:36<Khwerz>so even if it did work a .pdf is not very good (to my liking) for reading
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23:39<interbird>Khwerz: Well, to my experience, "man" always does the trick and pdf's are interesting when downloaded for viewing in a GUI. I never much cared for info as it's cli-interface comes from a time before the IBM system/360 was built.
23:39<Khwerz>interbird: (to my liking)
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23:40<interbird>Khwerz: (yes, i neglected that part...) But, just of curiousity, does info realy bring more than man or a pdf ?
23:41<Khwerz>it indeed does
23:41<interbird>like what,please ?
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23:42<kop>interbird : Concepts. e.g. info grub
23:42<Khwerz>it has index like an html or a pdf... its on CLI which me being a bit visually impaired detest the incredibly white bg of xpdf... and the lack of pdf readers out there too
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23:43<Khwerz>if i dare invert the bg itl erase all pictures (so its just the same) the gui also takes a bit more
23:43<Khwerz>of ram i think
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23:44<Khwerz>its not good for pictures is all that one can say as a negative
23:45<interbird>Khwerz, kop: Ok, thanks; I always found man gives the same info as the info-command. Will checkout info's merits sometime in the future. Thanks for pointing out you feel there is a difference.
23:46<Khwerz>if you like you can install pinfo and itl look a bit better
23:46<Khwerz>and just browse thru documentation
23:47<interbird>Ok, pinfo is cool ! Like that, brwosing in cli-mode...
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23:50<interbird>abrotman ?
23:51<interbird>abrotman: A movie you would like is "The Prestige"...
23:51<abrotman>i would?
23:51<interbird>I think so
23:51<Khwerz>why would he?
23:51<interbird>Thanks and later...
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23:51<Khwerz>abrotman: want to know the finale?
23:52<Khwerz>i dunno im feeling like ruining the story
23:52<abrotman>it's okay .. unless it ends up on the tube, little chance i'd see it
23:53<Khwerz>the tube?
23:53<Khwerz>i dont think so
23:53<amphi>the sweetly blown trumpet of lies
23:53<Khwerz>its like 3 hours or so
23:53<abrotman>you mean like all the LoTR they keep showing?
23:54<Khwerz>hmm ah well
23:54<Khwerz>lotr is incredibly well known
23:54<abrotman>sucks .. anyways .. back to debian!
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---Logclosed Sat Dec 06 00:00:44 2008