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#debian IRC Logs for 2009-02-21

---Logopened Sat Feb 21 00:00:18 2009
---Daychanged Sat Feb 21 2009
00:00<kop>lifedog : /dev/dsp would be a link to the actual device. Poke around /dev/bus/ or somewhere. There's also udev tools that let you search /sys/.
00:00-!-Guest895 [~djc@65.209.147.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:01<hmn>and it does not have execute permission set
00:01<pbdl>hmn: i take your word for it. i'm just getting pissed with his long writing. and i'm drunk, what can i say.. sorry :)
00:01<lifedog>you mean i make file /dev/dsp and link to my actual device,right?
00:01<kop>lifedog : It's probably in /dev/audio/ Somewhere.
00:02<hmn>pbdl, heh.. what do you think of what i'm describing?
00:02<kop>lifedog : No. You tell udev to make /dev/dsp a symlink to the actual device file, which gets put in some standard place.
00:02<lifedog>ok,i will try it,thanks
00:02<pbdl>hmn: i gots to read it foirst
00:03<hmn>pbdl, i can pastebin the file for you to take a look at it
00:03<kop>lifedog : You might want to tell the channel why you need /dev/dsp. There's probably a better approach.
00:03<gsimmons>kop: There is.
00:03<gsimmons>!devdsp
00:03<gsimmons>dpkg: devdsp
00:03<gsimmons>dpkg: literal devdsp
00:03<dpkg>"devdsp" is "if you are using <ALSA> and you get an error about /dev/dsp missing, you need to provide the OSS compatibility layer. Run "modprobe snd-pcm-oss" and add snd-pcm-oss to /etc/modules"
00:04<hmn>(use shell commands like cat to actually view it before you double-click on it, of course)
00:05<hmn>er, actually i forgot that the pastebin will show you what it looks like. lol
00:05-!-padma [~padma@121.246.78.142] has joined #debian
00:05<hmn>pbdl, so should i pastebin it?
00:06<lifedog>my audio card is inter HD, the module is snd-hda-intel, my laptop is thinkpad x60, the model is AD1981, the card works well,but when running cat /dev/urandom>/dev/dsp, it tell me there is no device "/dev/dsp"
00:06-!-Woet [~woeterman@78-27-33-6.dsl.alice.nl] has quit []
00:07<kop>lifedog : So wny not find the actual device special file and cat /dev/urandom to that?
00:08<lifedog>sorry, i m newer , and i really dont kown very much for linux
00:08<lifedog>i try the way that you tell me
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00:11<lifedog>it is time for lunch:-D
00:13<pbdl>hmn: while i'm not an expert, it does seems interesting. unfortunately i'm not going to try it today. I need some sleep and he needs to learn how to write concisely
00:13<pbdl>hmn: the tab stays open, thx for the link!
00:13<hmn>pbdl, ok.
00:13<hmn>yw
00:13-!-pbdl [~lenny@bl10-48-189.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
00:15<hmn>anyone else care to see this file?
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00:16<hmn>guess not.
00:16-!-shashi [~shashi@122.181.1.158] has quit []
00:16<hmn>i'll hang around for a bit anyway
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00:17<hmn>how's the lenny release been going? i haven't been here since it was released
00:18<lifedog>debian 5.0 is lenny?
00:18<hmn>support-wise, on this channel?
00:18<hmn>yes,
00:18<hmn>5.0 is lenny
00:18<hmn>now
00:19<lifedog>aha, i see ,i upgrade my system last week
00:19<hmn>me too, actually. i was just downloading some packages for it when it was being released, noticed it was going slow..
00:20<lifedog>i can try ubuntu, it is update quickly,haha
00:21<lifedog>u can try ubuntu, it is update quickly,haha
00:21<hmn>oh
00:21<hmn>no thanks
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00:21<hmn>what i meant was that the connection was slow... apparently due to the heavy downloading traffic
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00:23<lifedog>chage your network to best one:)
00:24-!-superjet_busy [~superjet@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:24<hmn>unfortunately, my local telco has a monopoly on DSL... but i don't think it was slow because of anything on my end.
00:26<lifedog>it is ADSL in my local, the speed is 120kb/s
00:26<hmn>my connection is usually 100kB/sec at least, it was running at 10kB/sec or slower on that day
00:27<lifedog>poor hmn
00:27<hmn>lifedog, officially or measured? i was talking about the numbers aptitude reported
00:28<lifedog>measured,some website can test the speed for downloading & uploading
00:29<hmn>lifedog, right, that makes sense then
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00:30<lifedog>thats intreseting of talking here
00:30<hmn>what is?
00:30<lifedog>funny:)
00:30<hmn>heh. wfyb
00:31<lifedog>and not alone in room
00:31<lifedog>wfyb?what does it mean?
00:31<hmn>Whatever Floats Your Boat :)
00:32-!-MrNfector [~mrnfector@mostsecure.net] has joined #debian
00:32<lifedog>i cant understand, i m chinese
00:32<hmn>(whatever makes you happy is fine with me)
00:32<lifedog>ok ,i see:)
00:32<Live_Free>ssh is kicking my but "Server refused our key", have read through every guide i can find and all point to two basic steps, put certificate in ~/.ssh/authorized_keys and proper write permissions
00:34<lifedog>hmn,u r at NewYork?
00:35<hmn>lifedog, no, i'm in california
00:35<lifedog>it is night,right?
00:35<hmn>yes
00:35<hmn>9:35 PM by my clock
00:36<hmn>what time is it there?
00:36<lifedog>13:35,about 10hrs eariler
00:37<hmn>(just realizing you might not be in china at the moment...)
00:37<hmn>ic
00:38<lifedog>i m in the capital of china
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00:38<hmn>unless i'm really tired... that's beijing, right?
00:39<lifedog>yes,thats right,have a good night
00:39<hmn>thanks, but i'm not leaving yet.
00:40<hmn>i was just covering my a** in case i was remembering wrong :)
00:40<lifedog>haha,how clever y r
00:41<hmn>cuz i know that's about as simple of a world geography question as possible, and i don't want to make us americans look stupider than we already do
00:42<hmn>but this is off-topic.. sorry
00:42<MrNfector>So here's an interesting question that I have to admit that I haven't googled much, but I've been thinking about. Why doesn't lenny come with locales installed? Or was that possibly just my provider that caused that issue? I haven't done a straight minimal install myself, but since so many different things depend on it, anyone else noticed this?
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00:44<hmn>MrNfector, when you install lenny there is a language selection on the very first screen, which sets the locale (i believe)
00:44<MrNfector>This could be an issue with a particular image, but I've heard of it a couple times now, so I'm wondering.
00:44<lifedog>it doesn't matter, i have no knowledge of america, i also dont know the eastern or western,but it is sytle of my life,so dont care
00:45<MrNfector>hmn, ok, it may be a build issue then. I haven't done a install yet, just used a build that was provided to me on a VPS I have for dev stuff.
00:46<hmn>MrNfector, yeah, sounds like someone made the choice for you. (there are also region selections after the language, which is also part of locale)
00:47<lifedog>i m really hungry,i have to leave,see u later or next week;-)
00:47<hmn>bye lifedog, have a nice afternoon
00:47<MrNfector>I'll likely reinstall my workstation soon with it, I'm happy to see lenny become the stable version of debian. Etch was getting to be a bit too far out of date on the core packages for me (desktop, not server).
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00:48<lifedog>byebye
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00:48-!-steven is now known as Steven_M
00:48<Steven_M>hi all
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00:49<hmn>MrNfector, i was too... though i wish i'd known lenny was about to be released when i upgraded. i could have used the new installer (i upgraded from a fresh etch install)
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00:50<Debian_User>hoping someone might have some helpful advice getting openssh rsa login working, i keep getting "Server refused our key" at login
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00:53<roccity_>hey guys how is debian 5 compared to etch? I tried etch and liked it just wondering if I should install etch again or lenny
00:54<hmn>roccity_, i like it for the most part.. new version of emacs and aptitude is nice
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00:55<roccity_>hmn, is there any real big difference other than upgraded packages?
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00:55<roccity_>hmn, I read that they are using the 2.6.26 kernel
00:55<Steven_M>when I installed Lenny, the installer couldn't download the security updates because my internet was down. What's the best way to install the security updates post install?
00:56<hmn>roccity_, well, for me, emacs now does syntax highlighting in python and prolog, fresh out of aptitude
00:56<hmn>and works with swiprolog
00:56<roccity_>hmn, aye??
00:56<hmn>which is a new package in lenny
00:56<roccity_>hmn, whats swiprolog if you don't mind me asking?
00:57<hmn>roccity_, it's an interpreter for the logic programming language Prolog
00:57<hmn>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prolog
00:57<roccity_>hmn, sounds interesting
00:58<blarson>Steven_M: aptitude update && aptitude upgrade
00:58<Steven_M>roccity_: I like Lenny so far
00:58<roccity_>hmn, can I install lenny from one cd like in etch?
00:58<hmn>yes, of course
00:58<blarson>roccity_: Sure. Or just upgrade your etch system.
00:58<hmn>oh wait, _one_ cd.. i'm not sure, but i think so
00:59<hmn>yes for sure if you're talking about net install
00:59<roccity_>hmn, how is the installer upgrading should I use the cd or dist-upgrade
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01:00<hmn>roccity_, it depends. do you have any files on etch you want to keep? the cd is easier if you don't care about hosing your current system
01:00<blarson>dpkg: tell roccity_ about etch->lenny
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01:00<Steven_M>blarson: thought so, thanks :)
01:00<roccity_>hmn, I have most on dvd so I know fresh is best
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01:01<roccity_>blarson, thanks for that didn't know you could do all that with dpkg
01:02<hmn>roccity_, otoh, going from etch to lenny the "hard way" is valuable for the experience... and can always be done the other way later if something breaks and you can't fix it
01:02<roccity_>hmn, thats the thing I always break something :)
01:02<roccity_>cool be back after I do this
01:02<MrNfector>^ my problem too.
01:02<roccity_>thanks guys
01:02<roccity_>?part
01:03<roccity_>?part
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01:04*blarson never had a problem upgrading a debian system, other than very rarly in sid. And we all know sid is unstable.
01:05<hmn>i've had a few.... going from sarge->etch (a day or so after getting my first debian install cd) broke X because they changed to X.org.
01:05<MrNfector>Of course, Sid uses fireworks to blow up toys, he has to be unstable.
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01:06<MrNfector>I have had problems a couple times from etch to Lenny, before Lenny was stable.
01:06<hmn>i only had minor problems going etch->lenny
01:07<hmn>but then it was also a fresh etch install :)
01:07<hmn>god, i repeat myself too much
01:07<MrNfector>It was mostly minor, though there were a few times when I got a bit irritated and decided I could do a straight install quicker.
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01:09*Steven_M goes to dinner be back soon
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01:10<hell-0>man
01:10<hell-0>5,0 kicks arse
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01:12<hmn>hell-0, what do you like about it so far?
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01:13<hell-0>brasero actually works
01:13<hell-0>i had fedora 9
01:13<hell-0>vlc media player is stable
01:14<Culito>i have ubuntu 8.10
01:14<hell-0>i installed vmware 2.0 fine
01:14<Culito>and benjamin too
01:14<hell-0>this is heaps stable
01:15<Culito>Benjamin, Where r u from?
01:15<hell-0>i like that most of the apps you need are on the install disc too
01:15<hmn>popcon at work, i guess
01:16<hmn>i know that the ones i need wouldn't all be on the first disc
01:17<hell-0>what you use?
01:17<MrNfector>I've got Ubuntu on my workstation, and at home, been thinking about putting it on the tech's workstations at work, but since I prefer Debian for stability I think I'll be installing Lenny to see how it does as a workstation.
01:17<hell-0>i'm leeching urban terror at the moment, hopefully that installs fine
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01:18<hmn>some rather eccentric programs :) swi-prolog for one
01:18<hell-0>and what does that doo
01:18<hell-0>prolog
01:18<hmn>it's an interpreter
01:18<hell-0>sounds dramatic
01:18<hmn>yes, for prolog
01:19<hmn>it's not all that dramatic, unless logic programming is dramatic to you
01:19<hell-0>logic? who thinks logically anymore
01:19<hell-0>haha
01:19<hmn>hardly anyone. like i said, it's eccentric. :)
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01:20<MrNfector>Anyone have any thoughts or opinions on deploying Lenny as a workstation for technicians to use? 15-20 workstation deployment, to replace Windows Server 2003 (which I thought was a bad idea in the first place). Most of our techs prefer linux in the first place.
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01:21<hell-0>you were using server 03 as a workstation?
01:22<MrNfector>3-4 monitors per workstation, possibly video cards from differing manufactuers. nVidia + Matrox, for instance.
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01:23<hell-0>do you work for NASA?
01:24<MrNfector>server 2003 in an AD environment, yes. Volume licensing, so it wasn't so bad. We do a lot with linux though, and we used Fedora 7 before as a workstation, but the powers that be wanted to try to move to Windows.
01:24<MrNfector>erm, no.
01:24<hell-0>AD enviroment?
01:25<hell-0>active directory?
01:25<MrNfector>Active Directory, yes
01:25<hell-0>you had each workstation set up as a domain controller
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01:26<MrNfector>If you absolutely have to run Windows on a server, then it's easier to manage (from what little I know of Windows) using AD.
01:26<MrNfector>No, each workstation was simply a workstation. There are servers to be domain controllers, etc.
01:28<MrNfector>Server 2003 can be used as a workstation just as well as XP can, honestly. I'd just like to move back to the linux workstations. Since we work mostly on linux servers, might was well have our workstations on the same OS.
01:28<hell-0>what do you guys do their
01:29<hell-0>im a first year computer systems student
01:29<MrNfector>A terminal server session on one monitor does the same as a Windows box most of the time.
01:29<hell-0>keen to learn
01:29<MrNfector>Nice to meet you then, always nice to meet someone who wants to learn about computers.
01:30<hell-0>ok
01:31<hell-0>so you had 3 clients log on to each server using terminal services
01:31<MrNfector>I'm a sysadmin for a dedicated server company. We provide servers on a monthly contract, basically.
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01:31<hmn>i was going to apply for a job that used AD.. i couldn't bring myself to swallow my distaste for the monstrosity that is Windows Server 2006
01:31<bug>i got a ?
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01:32<hmn>(not that 2003 was any less of a monster, or even MS' other OSes)
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01:33<MrNfector>hell-0: no, currently server 2003 is installed on the workstations, and that is the OS they run. If I switch the workstations to linux, I'll set up a terminal server that 20 people can be on at once, and that'll be where they can use visio, MS office, and IE if they need to.
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01:37<hell-0>cool
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01:37<hell-0>why does each workstation need 3 monitors
01:37<hell-0>some intensive shit
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01:39<MrNfector>I use 4, personally. Basically, you can display more things at once, and have instant access to different information at the same time.
01:39<bug>checking for CAIRO... yes
01:39<bug>checking which cairo font backends could be used... none
01:39<bug>configure: Disabling cairo support
01:39<bug>can someone help me
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01:47<Asteroid345>Is there a simple way to display a message in X or Gnome? basically need to pop up a little window displaing text and datetime. I'm learing how to use crontab and need to confirm wha I'm doing
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01:48<dondelelcaro>Asteroid345: xmesg or similar
01:48<dondelelcaro>err, xmessage
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01:48<metalqga>or a script date >> date.txt
01:49<dondelelcaro>Asteroid345: though generally you're better off just outputing to STDOUT in cron and checking your e-mail, or doing what metalqga suggests
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01:49<metalqga>and sleep 60 date.sh it will write the date every 60 secs
01:49<Asteroid345>>> means write to file?
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01:51<metalqga>i have a scripting question too
01:52<metalqga>can you take certain lines in an output file just like this one and work with the numbers in it (eg average sum)
01:55<dondelelcaro>Asteroid345: man bash; and read about redirection
01:55<dondelelcaro>metalqga: yes
01:55<metalqga>can you give me sth to read?
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01:56<dondelelcaro>metalqga: you can do what you're asking for in perl or python or just about anything fairly easily
01:58<dondelelcaro>metalqga: a trivial example: echo $(seq 1 10|awk '{$temp = $1 + $temp} END{print $temp}') '/' $(seq 1 10 |wc -l)|bc
01:59<Asteroid345>how do I start cron daemon, or check that it's running?
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01:59<metalqga>seq 1 10 is line 1 word 10 or?
02:00<dondelelcaro>metalqga: run seq 1 10; to see what it does
02:00<metalqga>thanks
02:01<Asteroid345>nvm, figured it out
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02:02<rgb30>if wget is downloading a series of files and it is interrupted then restarted, will it overwrite the files that are already present or will it skip them?
02:03<dondelelcaro>err, that should be: echo $(seq 1 10|awk '{temp = $1 + temp} END{print temp}') '/' $(seq 1 10 |wc -l)|bc
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02:04<rgb30>nm
02:04<hmn>dondelelcaro, i think the first advice for someone who doesn't know seq should be man seq, not telling them to run it and see.. that's how newbies can get hosed
02:04<dondelelcaro>hmn: I have no clue how you can get hosed by running seqq
02:04<dondelelcaro>s/qq/q/
02:05<hmn>dondelelcaro, not with seq specifically, but with any shell command i think one should understand what it does _before_ trying to execute it
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02:05<Asteroid345>Is theer something wrong with this cron ercor? "1,15,30,45 * * * * /home/asteroid/Desktop/runit"
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02:05<ajay>hi to all,new debian-cd package is very nice,easy to create install Cd ,but in tasks/lenny folder there is no debian-installer+kernel file is not available
02:05<dondelelcaro>Asteroid345: I've no clue what /home/asteroid/Desktop/runit is, but that's a reasonable crontab entry
02:05<Asteroid345>where runit is an executable and it has "gmessage 'hello'" in it
02:06<dondelelcaro>Asteroid345: though you'd probably want */15 * * * * insteadd
02:06<ajay>where it is vailable in debian-cd folder?
02:06<dondelelcaro>Asteroid345: and that won't work, because you'd actually need something like DISPLAY=:0.0 gmmessage 'hello' in runit
02:07<dondelelcaro>hmn: that's the same with any command, but it's perfectly legitimate to have someone try and run a command
02:07<dondelelcaro>hmn: whether they trust me or not is up to them
02:07<Asteroid345>dondelelcaro, wh wnt it work and why do I need that? (if there is a short answer, dont want to bug you)
02:07<dondelelcaro>Asteroid345: because in order to connect to an X server, you have to know what display to use.
02:07<dondelelcaro>Asteroid345: in a shell started from an X session you have DISPLAY and XAUTHORITY env variables set. That's not the case in cron
02:07<hmn>dondelelcaro, i'm not questioning your intentions either, i just think it's bad to get people in the habit of running commands they don't understand
02:07<Asteroid345>dondelelcaro, interesting
02:08<ajay>is there any document available about new debian-cd package.how it works?
02:08<dondelelcaro>hmn: sure, but I don't have time to bother with that. Feel free to educate metalqga
02:08<MrNfector>dondelelcaro: would need a user specification as well if the user logged into X isn't root, otherwise the DISPLAY= wouldn't go to the correct X session.
02:09<dondelelcaro>ajay: the debian-cd package is documented within it
02:09<dondelelcaro>MrNfector: uh.. no, it wouldn't
02:09*dondelelcaro is assuming of course that you're running cron as the user that the X session is running
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02:09*MrNfector blinks
02:09<dondelelcaro>if not, well, that's something entirely different
02:09<Asteroid345>dondelelcaro, would */15 * * * * mean every 4 seconds?
02:09<MrNfector>maybe I'm just too used to running cron as root, you could be entirely right.
02:10<metalqga>hmn you saw me asking how the line works, i didnt execute it right away
02:10<dondelelcaro>MrNfector: every user has crontabs, so...
02:10<dondelelcaro>Asteroid345: no, it means every 15 minutes. man 5 crontab
02:10<hmn>metalqga, yes, true.. that's good :)
02:11<dondelelcaro>anyway, best of luck all
02:11<MrNfector>dondelelcaro: you're right, I forget about that, since I mostly work with servers where I set cron jobs as root anyway, my mistake.
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02:14<oipunx>hi, just a quick question. How do you rotate a vid 180 deg in mplayer? I know that it will rotate with -vf rotate=1 but that's only 90deg
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02:17<dondelelcaro>oipunx: uh... so you want -mirror or -flip?
02:17<gsimmons>oipunx: Try '-vf flip,mirror'.
02:18<tcsetattr>a 180 degree rotation is equivalent to a pair of reflections across orthogonal axes. so -vf flip,mirror should do it. (flip is vertical, mirror is horizontal)
02:18<oipunx>oh nice that worked
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02:18<oipunx>thanks alot
02:19<oipunx>oh is the ftp://ftp.debian-multimedia.org server for apt-get down for anyone or is it jsut me?
02:20*hmn hasn't used mplayer recently, but...
02:20<hmn>would -vf rotate=2 also do it?
02:20<oipunx>nah 2 rotates it CW
02:21<hmn>ic, never mind then
02:21<metalqga>hmn man mplayer :P
02:21<hmn>$ man mplayer
02:21<hmn>No manual entry for mplayer
02:22<hmn>(I don't have it installed, apparently)
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02:26<Asteroid345>Are there any common backup utilities for websites? databases? etc... or should I write a shell script and use cron myself?
02:26<hmn>Asteroid345, there are many. I use afio
02:26<Asteroid345>which is most common/popular?
02:27<hmn>!popcon
02:27<dpkg>hmm... popcon is the Debian Popularity contest. See results at http://popcon.debian.org/ or install popularity-contest to participate. do the dpkg-reconfigure popularity-contest right after you answered all debconf stuff, or the basis for what packages appear on the first few cds/dvds etc (by rank)
02:27<hmn>(i don't know)
02:28<Asteroid345>hmn, wil afio also transfer file to a reote server?
02:28<Asteroid345>remote*
02:29<hmn>no, i don't think so. you may want rsync instead then
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02:35<Asteroid345>I wonder if conection via rsync is secure
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02:37<dam>Asteroid345: rsync can use ssh
02:37<Asteroid345>dam, interesting
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02:39<Asteroid345>what I want to do basically is backup all my mysql databases and dowload them toa diferent computer nightly, also export, archive and download some svn repositories
02:39<Asteroid345>It's an interesting challenge for a newbie like me :)
02:40<hmn>i may start the same kind of thing... i've never really gotten deep into rsync either
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02:42<hmn>for the svn repos, you might also want subversion-tools, which includes a script svn-fast-backup, which uses rsync
02:43<Asteroid345>hmn, is that debian only thing?
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02:43<hmn>i don't think so, i think it comes from the upstream svn authors
02:44<hmn>yeah, i'm sure now, aptitude lists the homepage as subversion.tigris.org
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02:44<Asteroid345>cool
02:44<lord>hi
02:45<Asteroid345>colabnet is down till 7 am! arghhh
02:45<hmn>though it does say _some_ of the scripts are no longer supported upstream
02:45<lord>is it possible to see which packages move to testing every day?
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02:47<Asteroid345>hmn, upstream? what do they mean?
02:48<hmn>!upstream
02:48<dpkg>somebody said upstream was where Debian developers download software from, or http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ch-developer-duties.en.html#s-upstream-coordination
02:48<Asteroid345>that sucks
02:48<hmn>it's the original authors of the package, who are not the Debian maintainers
02:49<hmn>(when the author doesn't maintain their own package in Debian)
02:51<hmn>somebody should update that link, it's dead
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02:53<hmn>(i don't know how, or i would do it...)
02:54<tcsetattr>dpkg: upstream =~ s|http.*|http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/developer-duties.html#upstream-coordination|
02:54<dpkg>tcsetattr: You are moron #2
02:54<tcsetattr>well, that must not be it.
02:54<jrabbit>lol
02:54<hmn>lol
02:54<tcsetattr>bots suck.
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03:05<phishbwlr>how do i make gnome start up instead of the CLI?
03:06<phishbwlr>there is a config file somewhere
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03:08<hmn>phishbwlr, depends on why it's not starting. do you think it's a problem with X?
03:09<phishbwlr>oh no it's okay... i was upgrading etch to lenny, and it started up with the CLI and i forgot how to load gnome at start
03:10<hmn>oh
03:10<phishbwlr>i'm still a noobie with this stuff, but i remember changing the config file once
03:10<hmn>gnome-session i think
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03:11<hmn>oh, you mean it's not starting automatically....
03:12<phishbwlr>yes automatically
03:12<hmn>well, is gdm starting at boot?
03:13<phishbwlr>yes it is starting, the screen is grey except for a terminal window
03:14<phishbwlr>hopefully that makes sense.. usualy it will boot into where i have menu options at the top and desktop etc
03:14<phishbwlr>but since trying to upgrade to lenny instead of etch, now i am back to a terminal window opening only.
03:14<phishbwlr>not sure i am even saying all this right.. does any of that make sense?
03:14<hmn>yes, it does, i'm just not sure where the problem is
03:15<hmn>it might be X's configuration, it might be gdm...
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03:16<phishbwlr>what's x?
03:16<lord>is it possible to see which packages move to testing every day?
03:16<phishbwlr>er x's whats the name of that
03:16<lord>yes/no?
03:16<phishbwlr>xterminal or something
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03:17<hmn>i'm not an expert on X, but from what i understand it's the most low-level part of the GUI. desktop environments like gnome are build on top of X.
03:18<hmn>built*
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03:19<hmn>xterm is the program you're thinking of
03:20<phishbwlr>yes.. i think.. something like this i need to edit.. /etc/X11/xorg.conf
03:20<hmn>it's an X program that emulates a terminal, much like gnome-terminal does in gnome
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03:21<hmn>phishbwlr, yes, that might be what you need to do, but if you're getting a window of any sort then X might not be the problem.... although I can't remember hearing any problems with gdm and such, it's usually X
03:22<s4br3>Hi, when I start the java-based sunflower rendering program in my 64-bit Debian Sid I get: "JVM available memory is below 800 Mb". There some hits on Google, but they have still not produced any help. Please, what has gone wrong?
03:23<jrabbit>is you jvm set to under 800 mb. lol
03:23<s4br3>jrabbit, how would I know that? Where do I set it?
03:23<jrabbit>you didn't think to google that? XD
03:24<s4br3>jrabbit, I thought it was related to sunflower
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03:29<hmn>phishbwlr, you'll probably need to pastebin your /etc/X11/xorg.conf and then ask someone with more knowledge about X than I have to read it for you
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03:31<hmn>but I can tell you that xterm has nothing to do with your problem, tho it may be part of the solution if you can't get gnome up
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03:32<phishbwlr>actually i am booting into CLI.. then typing startx...
03:32<phishbwlr>okay i can try to pastebin
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03:33<phishbwlr>just realized though that i'm not directly booting into xterm... i'm not sure even how to load gnome from CLI
03:33<hmn>phishbwlr, did you try gnome-session?
03:36<hmn>you would never boot directly into xterm, that's a program that runs once X has already been started
03:36<phishbwlr>gnome-session from CLI (not terminal) gives command not found
03:36<hmn>hmm
03:37<hmn>that's extremely odd
03:38<hmn>are you sure you even have gnome installed?
03:41<phishbwlr>well... i tried gnome-session, this didn't work..
03:41<hmn>what is this command's output dpkg -s gnome-desktop-environment | grep ^Status:
03:43<phishbwlr>Package gnome-desktop-environment is not installed and no info available
03:44<phishbwlr>so maybe it isn't installed :o
03:44<hmn>then that's your problem, it was either never installed or was uninstalled when you upgraded
03:44<phishbwlr>bah... should i just apt-get install gnome
03:44<enouf>!install gnome
03:44<dpkg>To install GNOME on sarge or later, install the 'gnome' package to install everything, the 'gnome-desktop-environment' package for slightly less stuff, or the 'gnome-core' package for even less. You will need X installed as well, ask me about <set up x>. http://wiki.debian.org/Gnome
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03:46<hmn>phishbwlr, it looks like that's what you should do, yes
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03:53<hmn>need to restart. maybe back later. good luck phishbwlr
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03:55<debianforlife>how do people using dvorak deal with using other computers that are regular qwerty?
03:55-!-Worf_ [~worf@84-119-46-51.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #debian
03:57<blarson>debianforlife: Maybe the same way I deal with computers that don't run Debian: refuse to use them.
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03:59<debianforlife>not always an option though, i find it hard being bilingual with keyboard layouts
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04:01<phishbwlr>hmn: i did a reboot, then installed with apt-get install gnome, then also did apt-get install gdm, careful to obey all messages, typed gdm and finally it is loaded! thank you :)
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04:03<phishbwlr>*phew* back to some GUI which is a relief to a newbie. gettin there.. <g> alright more debian progress, now i can get some sleep. haha
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04:03<phishbwlr>nite all
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04:08<Steven_M>hi all
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04:13<Steven_M>is there any way that this security advisary apply to Lenny: http://www.debian.org/security/2009/dsa-1719
04:15<admini>
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04:16<Steven_M>I meant: is there any way that this security advisary could apply to Lenny: http://www.debian.org/security/2009/dsa-1719
04:17<Hideo>dbus and dbus-x11 are dependencies required by abiword, gnumeric and other packages, it is required to be installed, however, if I want to disable it, how do I do that?
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04:19<f_mohr>i have a strange problem .. i'm trying to install lenny on a fresh disk (using the netinstall iso) .. after fetching all packages, the installer "sleeps" since 15 min
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04:21<DomiX>try ctrl+alt+f4 and see what's going on
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04:25<f_mohr>DomiX last message is just the fetch of a package .. nothing in /.../var/cache/apt/archives/partial/
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04:26<f_mohr>ps shows no activity, no disk activity
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04:35<rohan>i am trying to install debian using pen drive and KDE CD1 iso. however, it does not actuall install KDE, as the actual cd install would. i think this is because the installer is not getting preseeded from the cd. how do i ensure that i have an install same as if i would have installed using KDE CD1?
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05:07<gsimmons>rohan: Use the desktop=kde boot parameter.
05:08<rohan>gsimmons: but will that parameter work for the hd-media installer?
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05:09<gsimmons>rohan: Did you try it?
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05:10<rohan>no
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05:14<archie>i see dante-client didn't make it into lenny, is there an alternative?
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05:19<Steven_M>how do make a fat32 partition rw by a certain group of users?
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05:20<Steven_M>tuxwarrior: cool nick :)
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05:25<Steven_M>hi all\
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05:26<Steven_M>how do make a fat32 partition rw by a certain group of users?
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05:28<TMcTrain>Steven_M: have you tried to mount it with other settings?
05:28<archie>actually i'm not clear why dante-client wasn't allowed into the release. it was dropped as rc-buggy but hasn't been since july
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05:31<Steven_M>TMcTrain: I don't know what opttions to use at fstab?
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05:31<TMcTrain>I'm searching for it
05:31<enouf>Steven_M: chown the mount point to user:group1
05:32<enouf>add all users that you want to have access to the fat32 to group1
05:32<octomat>oh wow i finally found my way here
05:32<TMcTrain>welcome
05:32<octomat>does anyone in here have experience attempting to install lenny through pppoe with the minimal network install?
05:33<octomat>I'm a bit new to this :P
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05:33<enouf>Steven_M: use 'users' as a mount option in /etc/fstab - i never tried what you're asking, but i use my uid=,gid= in my line for my user
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05:34<enouf>you might have to dick around with {u,d,f}mask options
05:35<Steven_M>enouf: ok thanks :)
05:35<enouf>Steven_M: see man mount
05:37<enouf>Steven_M: you realize that Microsoft filesystems don't have unix permission concepts/attributes/capabilities. so i hope it's not something 'secure' that you're trying to achieve
05:38<Steven_M>yes, I know that
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05:39<archie>nobody here using socksify on lenny?
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05:41<Steven_M>enouf: so should I ignore "chown the mount point to user:group1" and just do "use 'users' as a mount option in /etc/fstab - i never tried what you're asking, but i use my uid=,gid= in my line for my user" or do both
05:41<Steven_M>?
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05:47<Steven_M>enouf: sorry, I have to go, I'll try both of your suggestions in the morning, thanks :)
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05:49<octomat>Has anyone in here successfully installed debian minimal network install via at&t dsl?
05:49<octomat>Or some other similar pppoe setting.
05:50<CyPRioT>i have done
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05:50<octomat>did yours involve a 2wire modem?
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05:51<octomat>I'm having quite the problem getting degian to recognize the pppoe concentrator
05:52<CyPRioT>my modem has dhpc
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05:52<octomat>oh, thats entirely different
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06:15<TMcTrain>how do I get the gid of a preexisting group?
06:16<blarson>TMcTrain: look in /etc/group
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06:17<TMcTrain>tx
06:17<TMcTrain>i looked befor but i missed a line :-)
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06:39<xdanx77>Hello and good morning.I've got a question to "debootstrapping" lenny from a knoppix cd.It went successfully till i had to boot the first time.a.) grub doesn't display the /boot/grub/menu.lst (symlink to grub.conf) b.) it doesn't find any valid init .(i did from the grub shell : $> kernel=/boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/cciss/c0d0p2 init=/bin/bash panic=30) but it failed with : cannot execute /bin/bash which is installed.What can this be ?
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06:46<tuxcrafter>hihi, i updated my sid installation and know pdf files are opened with the gimp :-D
06:46<tuxcrafter> /know/now/
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06:46<goodxandros>omg i think i fried linux
06:47<goodxandros>jesus i did
06:48<goodxandros>oh man this external hard drive is in trouble
06:48<craigevil>tuxcrafter: gnome?
06:48<goodxandros>no kde
06:48<goodxandros>xandros
06:48<simonrvn>#xandros on freenode
06:48<goodxandros>ok ty
06:49<goodxandros>same serve/
06:49<dr|z3d>simonrvn: Sounds like he might be considering installing debian now he's friend xandros.
06:49<goodxandros>?
06:49*dr|z3d smiles.
06:49<dr|z3d>*fried
06:49<goodxandros>yeah i have a copy on disk
06:49<simonrvn>dr|z3d: oh possibly
06:49<goodxandros>and ferdora
06:49<dr|z3d>*fedora
06:50<simonrvn>so install it then, and come back if you have questions about it.
06:50<goodxandros>but i need to get a drive to do that
06:50<goodxandros>i just have a eeepc for now
06:50-!-knoppix_ [~ggfox13@62-50-197-109.client.stsn.net] has joined #debian
06:50<goodxandros>im poor
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06:50<dr|z3d>goodxandros: You might want to look at Easy Peasy, then.. just a thought :)
06:50<craigevil>you just need a usb flash drive doesnt have to be very big either http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEeePC/HowTo/Install
06:50<goodxandros>fedora*
06:51<simonrvn>i'm poorer ;). i can't afford an eeepc
06:51<goodxandros>yeah i saw thoes flash installs there only like 20 bucks after shipping
06:51<goodxandros>lol
06:51<craigevil>lol you can get one for like $5
06:52<craigevil>the installer img is only 16mb
06:52<goodxandros>simonrvn: i feel ya
06:52<goodxandros>spam site
06:52<amphi>ugh
06:52<simonrvn>craigevil: in what universe?
06:53<tuxcrafter>craigevil: nope plain x :-p
06:53<tuxcrafter>craigevil: with thunar and xfce3-pannel
06:53<tuxcrafter> /3/4/
06:54<tuxcrafter>but i just did not now gimp was able to open pdf :-p
06:54<craigevil>simonrvn: http://www.amazon.com/Kingston-DTI-2GB-Traveler-Flash/dp/B000FZX9I0/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=pc&qid=1235217206&sr=1-4 $4.33 for a 2gb
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06:54<craigevil>newegg and tigerdirect have similiar ones
06:54<craigevil>if not cheaper
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06:55<simonrvn>oh, i don't do amazon nor online shopping.
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06:57<craigevil>tuxcrafter: ah, no clue about anything xfce related some people were reporting issues with gnome-mime-data in the last couple of days doing weird things in sid
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07:01<Lemonzest>any reason why wine in experimental is 1.1.15 for i386 and only 1.1.13 for amd64?
07:01<tuxcrafter>craigevil: yes i also see strange openoffice icons for odt document instead of my normal icons
07:01<tuxcrafter>it looks extreem ugly :-)
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07:01<octomat>does anyone here know much about net install of debian on pppoe using at&t?
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07:06<goodxandros>man this is weird
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07:08<goodxandros>my linux see'e the external hdd but it doesnt wanna play and the when i go to look at file's in it the fie manager clsese and i freez rightup
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07:08<mimiloon>hi eveybody, i'm new to the linux world and i'm having a bit of a problem; so, here goes: my OS is debian, i have a problem with my sound card driver, my sound card works but when i plug in the headphones, i can still hear it from the big speakers and not the head phones
07:08<goodxandros>closes*
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07:09<goodxandros>so i reboot without the drive hooked up and im ok but theres some issues
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07:09<mimiloon>thanks in advance for the help
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07:11<goodxandros>i can only drop and drag into my media player the, playlist editor say no divice
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07:11<goodxandros>this is such a headache
07:11<goodxandros>i still hate windows lol
07:12<goodxandros>hey i wanted to learn linux aand what better way than to break it and fix it
07:13<goodxandros>if theres still any hope of that
07:14<goodxandros>runs much better without that drive now thoe but now i have no freakin space
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07:15<goodxandros>wich says to me theres just gotta be a way
07:15<goodxandros>which*
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07:16<mimiloon>can anybody help a newbie plz?
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07:23<hever>Should I send a syslog severity 0 (emergency) if my program won't work and has big problems or if the whole system has big problems if I'm writing from my own program to syslog ?
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07:26<enouf>mimiloon: cat /proc/asound/{modules,cards} | xargs
07:27<mimiloon>enouf: what does this do?
07:27<enouf>mimiloon: cat /proc/asound/{modules,cards} or just send that to a pastebin, don't paste in the channel
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07:28<enouf>mimiloon: it shows us info about your sound
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07:28<enouf>man cat , man xargs (but forget the xargs, i was piping it so you would get all output on one line)
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07:29<Guest932>se supone que estoy en contacto con alguien?
07:30<mimiloon>enouf: do i type this into the terminal because i'm completely lost
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07:30<enouf>mimiloon: yes, open a xterm, or in console and run the command
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07:32<goodxandros>i feel ya mimiloon
07:32<goodxandros>just starting to get the lingo myself
07:33<goodxandros>its like learning a new lag in english lol
07:33-!-LoRez [~lorez@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:33<goodxandros>script lang
07:34<mimiloon>enouf: I've got this: 0 snd_hda_intel 0 [Intel ]: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel HDA Intel at 0xf0640000 irq 82
07:34<mimiloon>i have no idea what to do with this info, lol
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07:35<mimiloon>goodxandros: good one
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07:38<enouf>mimiloon: let me look .. one moment
07:38<mimiloon>enouf: thanks
07:39-!-Ale58 [~Ale@host85-107-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
07:40<Ale58>ciao
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07:40<enouf>mimiloon: see the output from ~$ modinfo snd_hda_intel | grep parm you might need to set one of those options in your /etc/modprobe.d/ files, such as /sound perhaps - alsaconf usually generates/writes that /sound file in there
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07:43<mimiloon>enouf: i have no idea what you just said, lol; but i'll give it a shot
07:43<Vivek> Hi folks, am using the Debian slapd package and I am not able to find a slapd.conf file. I can only find a ldap.conf file. Do I need to create a slapd.conf file ? . I am following this howto on debian administration http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/585
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07:46<mimiloon>enouf: when i type the following command "modinfo snd_hda_intel | grep parm" it gives me the following error "bash: modinfo: command not found"
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07:51<plutobello>buon giorno a tutti
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07:53<plutobello>salvelox a tutti c'è nessuno per un consiglio
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07:53<plutobello>su proftpd
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07:53<plutobello>:( nessuno?
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07:54<plutobello_niubbo>salvelox a tutti c'è nessuno per un consiglio
07:54<plutobello_niubbo>su proftpd
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08:00<cionfolinet>debian sid. I can't compile ipager-1.1.0
08:00<cionfolinet>Somebody can help me please?
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08:02<cionfolinet>?
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08:16<mimiloon>is there any way to update my sound drivers in debian?
08:16<Tekno>yea, get a newer kernel
08:16<Tekno>:D
08:17<goodxandros>update your data base might help
08:17<goodxandros>updatedb
08:17<goodxandros>idk might help
08:18<mimiloon>how can i do that; its driving me nuts
08:18<mimiloon>i'm a total noob to linux
08:19<goodxandros>just type uddatedb in your terminal as a super user
08:19<goodxandros>oops
08:19<goodxandros>updatedb
08:19<goodxandros>hit enter
08:19<mimiloon>i'm infected with windows virus, lol
08:19<goodxandros>waitt a miute
08:19<goodxandros>and then its done
08:19<jrabbit>anyone used elilo?
08:20<mimiloon>i mean physically not with the computer
08:20<goodxandros>mee too mimiloon
08:20<mimiloon>thanx goodxandros
08:21-!-vinicius [~vinicius@201.21.166.106] has joined #debian
08:21<goodxandros>np mimiloon i understand
08:21<vinicius>whats the procedure to install flash on amd64?
08:21-!-Vivek [~Vivek@125.99.120.106] has joined #debian
08:21<vinicius>flash on mozilla, i mean
08:22<jrabbit>the nonfree one?
08:22<goodxandros>the one thing ive found with linux is dont hurry
08:22<goodxandros>ok mimiloon
08:22<goodxandros>its might take a long while befor i get this stuff
08:23<goodxandros>better than breaking it thoe
08:23-!-k6orj [~mark@64.193.92.251] has joined #debian
08:23<goodxandros>which ive kinda done to my linux so now to undo it all
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08:24*goodxandros starts over
08:24<vinicius>jrabbit, yes :)
08:25-!-sutula [sutula@free.linux.hp.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:25<jrabbit>follwo their directions then
08:25-!-prassyy [~prassyy@122.169.94.223] has joined #debian
08:25<jrabbit>it should jsut 'work'
08:25<goodxandros>i love irc thoe ,the peps in the channels on the many differnt servers have been helpful
08:25<jrabbit>:P
08:25<jrabbit>EFI doesn't love me
08:26<jrabbit>dpkg: efi?
08:26<dpkg>bugger all, i dunno, jrabbit
08:26<jrabbit>>:(
08:26<prassyy>hello, have got r51 wifi n/w how do i enable my wifi card?
08:28<mimiloon>tekno: how can i get a new kernel without install a new version of debian?
08:29<gsimmons>prassyy: Which wireless device/chipset do you have?
08:29<prassyy>sorry im new to irc and debian dont know how to send private msg, i have ibm r51 and intel 2200 pro wireless
08:29-!-Glanzmann [sithglan@faui08.informatik.uni-erlangen.de] has joined #debian
08:30<Glanzmann>Where can I get xv for Lenny?
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08:33<prassyy>gsimmons: hello i've got intel pro 2200 wireless card
08:33<gsimmons>!tell prassyy -about ipw2200
08:34-!-sisa [~shun@v114014.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #debian
08:34<gsimmons>prassyy: Refer to the wiki page referenced by dpkg.
08:35<prassyy>gsimmons: ok sir ty
08:35<goodxandros>hey gsimmons
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08:37<prassyy>gsimmons: i read it sir, but the place does not has wired LAN so cant connect online, unless it's wi-fi, sorry but is there any way i can install the firmware offline?
08:37<michael>haii
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08:38<Guest937>hey jemand da
08:38<Anonissimus>no
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08:41<goodxandros>do you know what might be makeing my system lock right up when i use this external hdd ,i mounted it and fromated it .it was working fine.i even had the permissions set to download to it but now every thing locks up when i use it and some things like my file manger jut close up on me instintlyy and i freeze right up ,so i reboot and unplug the drive and everything is fine without it
08:42-!-Bearman [~bear@pD9E5E56B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:42<goodxandros>i hope the drive isnt gone
08:42<goodxandros>it see the files just cant use it
08:43<goodxandros>i go to use it and these real trouble
08:43<goodxandros>ther'es*
08:43<gsimmons>prassyy: Acquire the 'firmware-ipw2x00' package from http://packages.debian.org/lenny/all/firmware-ipw2x00/download , transfer this to your Debian system and manually install it via dpkg. You can alternatively acquire the firmware from http://ipw2200.sf.net/firmware.php, but you'll be required to unextract its contents and place the relevant files in /lib/firmware .
08:45<prassyy>gsimmons: ty sir
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08:47<Tarcas>Anyone know if there's an open-source alternative to MS Project?
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08:58<d4rkl0rd>hello, need help with scanner. I upgraded os some days ago, but now system cannot find my scanner. wth?
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08:59<d4rkl0rd>scanimage working only thru sudo, quiteinsane not at all
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09:08<lifedog>i use the python,but when i import gtk,it said that no such module named cairo ,but it is under the right folder,i installed debian4.0 and upgrade to debian5.0,does anyone meet this problem?
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09:09<joss>fyxdc
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09:16<Wireless>hi all
09:16<lifedog>hi
09:16<Wireless>i need help to configure samba
09:16<Wireless>i'm running debian 5
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09:17<lifedog>i cannot help because i m newer
09:17<lifedog>sorry
09:17-!-esaym [~user@cpe-70-120-89-6.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:17<Wireless>none here can help me?
09:18<lifedog>it maybe early morning,all are in the bed:)
09:19-!-mode/#debian [+l 413] by debhelper
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09:19<Wireless>i'm in Italy :)
09:19-!-mrblonde_ [~mrblonde@p5B037814.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian
09:19<haitike>maybe i cat help you if it is not very advanced (im in spain :)
09:19<tweber>Wireless, just ask your question. If someone can help you, he/she will help you
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09:20<Wireless>i cannont access to a samba share with an user but with the first user that i've created i can
09:20<Wireless>where's the problem?
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09:21<thoron>is that first user root?
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09:23<d3co>could be : smbpasswd -a user
09:24<Wireless>d3co: i have used this command for create my users
09:24<d3co>ok
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09:25<Wireless>d3co: first user can access to samba shares and him home
09:25<Wireless>d3co: the second cannot
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09:28<Wireless>no idea?
09:28-!-adb [~otis@212.147.109.50] has joined #debian
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09:29<d3co>look the user in /etc/passwd, /etc/shadow and smbpasswd
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09:31<Wireless>the two users are in this files
09:31<d3co>finger user
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09:34<rafaaran>hi, i want to get the user that is running my bash script, how can i do this?
09:34<Wireless>d3co: what do you mean with "finger user"?
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09:35<erKURITA>!finger
09:35<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, finger is a insecure service that lets people find valid accounts to crack. SUPPOSED TO DO THAT, remove it immediatly
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09:37<rafaaran>anybody can i hel me?
09:37<rafaaran>anybody can i help me?
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09:38<tweber>rafaaran, man whoami, man id
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09:38<rafaaran>hi, i want to get the user that is running my bash script, how can i do this?
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09:39<rafaaran>i want to get the user that is running my bash script, how can i do this into my script?
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09:42<d3co>do you have repositories lenny ?
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09:49<SSteiner>is there a way to run a script in the background using arguments? I've tried "./script.sh arg1 arg2"& and ./script.sh& arg1 arg2 but neither work
09:49<erKURITA>how about
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09:49<erKURITA>sh script arg1 arg2 &
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09:52<vinicius>anyone has some experience installing debian from usb? according to this howto http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/446, can i use a debian testing netinst image to boot from a boot.img.gz usb device?
09:52<stew>!usb install
09:52<dpkg>Yes, it is possible to boot Debian from a USB stick/thumbdrive/pen drive/key, as long as your computer BIOS can boot from USB. Details are in the Installation Guide http://www.debian.org/releases/lenny/i386/ch04s03.html.en , see "usb stick" section, http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/debian-installer/ for images. (Older, outdated articles http://d-i.pascal.at/ and http://wiki.debian.org/USB-HD_Boot_Full_Debian)
09:52<SSteiner>that works, thanks
09:52<enouf>no, not to boot it, iinm, use what the installation guide says
09:53<vinicius>stew, according to THAT manual =/
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09:53<stew>vinicius: yes, i have done this. the procedure in that manual works. I believe the boot medium you use and the iso you use must be from the same version
09:55<vinicius>stew, ok... i downloaded this one ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/testing/main/installer-i386/current/images/hd-media/boot.img.gz and this one http://gensho.acc.umu.se/cdimage/daily-builds/daily/arch-latest/i386/iso-cd/debian-testing-i386-netinst.iso
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09:56<vinicius>stew, will it work? (still downloading seconds one...)
09:56<vinicius>*second
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09:57<phrhd>hey, can anyone tell me why installing kcontrol screws up my xterm configuration (i am on a gnomish DE with mostly kde apps)
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10:07<bruno>chi parla in italiano ce qualcuno?
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10:08<Tekno>!it
10:08<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
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10:10<serg>Привет
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10:23<joss>so how do you downgrade a package a first questions?
10:23<hasimausi>hay
10:24<hasimausi>germeny
10:24<joss>and the other one, how to install single package resolving dependencies myself affter it
10:24<joss>germenny?
10:24<dr|z3d>!de
10:24<dpkg>deutschsprachige Hilfe bekommt ihr in #debian.de (auf irc.oftc.net, irc.freenode.net oder irc.belwue.de) - German speaking users please go to #debian.de (on irc.oftc.net, irc.freenode.net or irc.belwue.de). DE == Desktop Environment
10:24<hasimausi>deutschland
10:24<joss>deutsche welle
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10:25<themill>joss: /msg dpkg downgrade ; /msg dpkg gdebi ; or alternatively, install it using dpkg then aptitude -f install.
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10:26<hasimausi>hay bin neu hier
10:26<joss>themill: this sucks high time, -f still wants to resolve all the deps i do not need here
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10:27<themill>joss: you always need dependencies. What are you really trying to do?
10:27<joss>themill: basically i can see that other earlier xserver version in the same repo
10:27<joss>i do not know how to merge it witth all deps , since that is older then the main
10:28<hasimausi>bin neu
10:28<joss>themill: it kinda often suggestts wrong packages, like linux-source from different package etc.
10:28<themill>hasimausi: bitte, /join #debian.de
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10:28<themill>joss: I still don't know what it is you're actually trying to do.
10:29<joss>when i allready have linux source that is suitable
10:29<Tekno>then just get a kernel-package for compiling tools
10:29<Tekno>nothing else
10:29<joss>themill: downgrade xorg in interpid
10:29<joss>from 1.5.2 to 1.4.90
10:29<themill>joss: right... so you want #ubuntu on irc.freenode.net for that. And I'll bet they'll tell you that you can't sensibly do so.
10:30<Tekno>debian is not ubuntu
10:30<Tekno>and ubuntu is not debian
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10:30<joss>themill: then they are idiots
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10:30<joss>themill: how come i can not?
10:30<themill>joss: since you seem not to know what a dependency is, I wouldn't go around calling people idiots.
10:30<craigevil>!downgrade
10:30<dpkg>methinks downgrade is not possible with apt-get currently. No future support is anticipated. Some programs change the binary format of their files in a way that cannot be rolled back later, and package maintainer scripts provide ways to upgrade to new config file formats but not ways to downgrade. You can always try to downgrade a package using dpkg -i <olderversion.deb>. Also see <partial downgrade>, or <sdn>
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10:34<joss>themill: binary format should be the same, is there a meta-slot for xorg-dev and xorg-server?
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10:34<themill>the binary format of what should be the same? Two completely different versions of xorg?
10:34<joss>themill: ah never mind, seems there is a file in etc that can take input of package freezes
10:35<joss>themill: yup, they can be compiled even with same gcc 4.3
10:36<themill>right... because APIs and ABIs never change between releases
10:36<joss>something like portage --inject it seems, some pun interface
10:36<hasimausi>halllo
10:37<themill>joss: anyway, you trying to break your ubuntu machine is not on-topic for #debian -- please take this to #ubuntu on irc.freenode.net.
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10:37<joss>pin..themill, so is it possible to tell to apt that this package is allready there, even though i do not want it via apt-get?
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10:38<Apteno>Hello !
10:38<joss>themill: apt mostly breaks it :) i am not willing to switch to another version of kernel, because apt tells me to, when it can be done just like telling kernel-module is allready there, and compiling it by hand, so can it?
10:39-!-Worf_ [~worf@84-119-46-51.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #debian
10:39<Apteno>I have a little question : What will "Standard Systeme" install ? (in the netinstall of lenny)
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10:40<themill>joss: you need to learn to work with apt not against it. Treat it right, and it will work fine for you. Now go and ask #ubuntu on irc.freenode.net how to fix your setup.
10:40-!-mick [~mick@client-86-0-96-80.nrth.adsl.virgin.net] has quit []
10:40<joss>how can i do it with apt? like injecting a package virtually? that only consists of single kernel module
10:40<themill>joss: #ubuntu on irc.freenode.net. Seriously.
10:40<joss>themill: i have specific question about apt not ubuntu..really seriosusly
10:41<gsimmons>Apteno: A list of packages in this task is at http://wiki.debian.org/tasksel
10:41<themill>joss: doesn't matter. #debian is for debian support not for apt support. And debian's apt is not the same as ubuntu's.
10:41<maxb>joss: If your specific question is "How can I tell APT to ignore a dependency?", the answer is "You cannot."
10:42-!-pioruns [~chatzilla@78.145.33.3] has joined #debian
10:42<joss>maxb: it really seems so here too,cause the package cache seems to be a binary not text file
10:42<vhyedfot>hasimausi: du deutsch? guckst du #debian.de
10:43<Apteno>gsimmons : thank you !
10:43<maxb>joss: more to the point, even if you *did* modify it, the cache gets regenerated from scratch every time you "apt-get update" anyway
10:43<maxb>So no modification would persist
10:44<joss>maxb: i have noticed that as well
10:44<joss>and i honestly do not like it much, since the maintainers do mistakes quite often
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10:44<themill>joss: then you're using the wrong distro.
10:44-!-pioruns [~chatzilla@78.145.33.3] has quit []
10:44<maxb>Maintainers do not make mistakes often, in my experience
10:45-!-pioruns [~chatzilla@78.145.33.3] has joined #debian
10:45<maxb>And mistakes generally get fixed quickly
10:45<hasimausi>wie meisnt du das
10:45<maxb>And if you're using an unstable branch of a distro, then you should expect the occasional breakage
10:45<joss>themill: not here, since i have limited band, mostly source based is good, but not here
10:45<vhyedfot>hier wird nur englisch gesprochen
10:45<hasimausi>was ist mit debian
10:46<themill>joss: if you believe that ubuntu maintainers are poor, go to #ubuntu and tell them that. If you think you're smarter than all distros around, then go ask about different distros in #linux. Whatever the case, you are offtopic here in #debian.
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10:46<vhyedfot>ist das beste was es gibt auf der welt
10:47<frank>maybe give lfs a try
10:47<kapil_>joss: perhaps you are looking for "dpkg"
10:47<joss>themill not smarter, just such circumstances
10:47-!-kapil_ is now known as kapil
10:47<frank>dpkg rocks
10:47<dpkg>Yer damned right...
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10:49<joss>themill: will it become on topic if i switch to debian, actually i have a question regarding video drivers here, for last couple weeks
10:50<joss>themill: what i want to know, if it is possible to run two 3d sessions mostly, searched the virtualgl site, suns debian has packages of it, but intel-gfx seems to lack pbuffers
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10:51<joss>so called offscreen bufferse, themill: do you know, if chromium can do this?
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10:52<Tarcas>Anyone know if there's an open-source alternative to MS Project?
10:52<debianforlife>joss, you can run multiple 3d sessions
10:52<joss>themill: not with dual heads, just over vnc to display 0 and display 1? possible?
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10:53<hasimausi>ay
10:53<debianforlife>joss, you can use TCP with X to have remote screens
10:53<hasimausi>ok
10:53<hasimausi>wie kann ich das in deutsch über stzen
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10:53<joss>debianforlife: trying with vmgl at the moment, but module bails with 1.5.2 succeeds with 1.4.90, so i can not find source for this module actually
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10:54<joss>debianforlife: can you describe how to do that?
10:54<debianforlife>i have always used Xcinema, I don't know anything about vmgl
10:54<debianforlife>Xinerama
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10:54<debianforlife>*
10:54<joss>vmgl and chromium renderserver seem to not require pbuffers but swap_buffers instead, shich i have
10:54<rodrigo>hola
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10:55<frank>!de
10:55<dpkg>deutschsprachige Hilfe bekommt ihr in #debian.de (auf irc.oftc.net, irc.freenode.net oder irc.belwue.de) - German speaking users please go to #debian.de (on irc.oftc.net, irc.freenode.net or irc.belwue.de). DE == Desktop Environment
10:55<joss>debianforlife: xinerama lacks glx and dri i assume, and works with dual heads i think
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10:55<debianforlife>i have 3 screens running with Xinerama
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10:55<debianforlife>across 2 different cards, my old setup actually used 3 cards
10:55<joss>debianforlife: i do not have multiple cards
10:56<debianforlife>you just have one graphics card?
10:56<joss>debianforlife: i have only one card, understand?
10:56<debianforlife>what is it?
10:56<joss>yup, and i want to share this card, just like viirtual machine does it
10:56<joss>if i open another Xorg i would not get dri without virtual machine
10:57<debianforlife>i see... No clue...
10:57<themill>joss: you wouldn't really get dri within the virtual machine either.
10:57<joss>debianforlife: just like redirecting the rendering results to nondri display
10:57-!-rettub_ is now known as rettub
10:58<joss>themill: hmm, they say they can, but it seems odd to me also, moment, an article
10:58<joss>http://www.linux.com/feature/154368?theme=print
10:59<joss>full opengl, xephyr does it also, some versions...tried with vncproxy, but it rejects the calls from :1
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10:59<joss>connection reset by peer something like that, works only on main server which is pointless
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11:00<joss>but then again i did not get the conf right i assume, lots of errors,, and xcliplist was not loading as well, got it to load, but i think i broke the initing function
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11:01<vhyedfot>Tarcas: google? sourceforge? ... i found hint for a project named ganttproject
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11:01<vhyedfot>do apt-cache search gantt find some packages
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11:03<themill>joss: I'd say with the state of that (rather unmaintained) code and the speed at which both virtualisation and xorg are changing at present, you have little chance of getting it to work without a lot of effort and a lot of clue.
11:03<themill>Looks rather funky though
11:04<Tarcas>vhyedfot: I was wondering if anybody was familiar with any. googling is no problem, but experienced recommendations help.
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11:04<david>hi
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11:05<Guest947>how i can remote those 3 icons on my desktop?
11:05<Guest947>i just install "lenny"
11:05<vhyedfot>Tarcas: sorry, never worked with project stuff. ganttproject is able to import MS sh.. stuff
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11:06<Tarcas>vhyedfot: not a concern. Starting a small company, so there's nothing to import. Trying to choose one to start with. :-)
11:07<Tarcas>I'll find something that runs on both windows and Linux and try it out. Thanks anyway.
11:09<vhyedfot>Tarcas: are you using debian? apt-cache search gantt shows "planner" and "opensched"
11:09<Tarcas>I am. I'll look into those. Thanks!
11:10<vhyedfot>Tarcas: you are welcome
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11:12<joss>got disconnected, themill so what you think, possible?
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11:13<themill>joss: [16:03] <themill> joss: I'd say with the state of that (rather unmaintained) code and the speed at which both virtualisation and xorg are changing at present, you have little chance of getting it to work without a lot of effort and a lot of clue. [16:03] <themill> Looks rather funky though
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11:13<joss>themill: exactly, that's quite hard here, seems almost as hacking to get there
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11:15<joss>themill:recompiled a tree 10times, still get some errors, xdmx even wont start segfaulting..problems with vnc as well, got it connecting from :0 to itself only
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11:15<jandd>I need a tool similar to less to search inside a file that is much larger than the virtual memory of my machine do you know anything like this?
11:15<themill>jandd: grep?
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11:16<joss>jandd: grep -in ".*string.*" $(pwd) -R
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11:17<joss>would grep all the files in current dir for a string
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11:17<jandd>joss: more like sudo less -f /dev/mapper/sda4_crypt ... but without out of memory :-)
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11:17<jandd>themill: I'll give grep -A 10 -B 10 a try
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11:18<joss>jannd: never mind, did not get the point, havent really seen myself how grep goes out of mem
11:18<themill>joss: .* not required for grep and -R not required either, just *
11:18<joss>themill: it really is required regex it is
11:19<joss>.* for greedy
11:19<themill>joss: still not required.
11:19<joss>-R for recursive
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11:19<themill>joss: recursive != " all the files in current dir".
11:19<joss>not needed if you do $(find .)
11:19<themill>joss: and $(pwd) is just .
11:19<joss>but that is worse then i provided
11:20<themill>joss: you said that -R was all files in the current dir.
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11:20<joss>themill: yep not in current dir
11:20<joss>themill: aah yes, than i was mistaken
11:20<joss>its recursive
11:20<themill>joss: it's not just that dir, but all subdirs as well. That's often not what is wanted.
11:20<joss>find -type f for that
11:20<tcsetattr>when you're grepping a block device, -b is worth considering too.
11:21<joss>themill: yep all subdirs
11:22<themill>jandd: there's an extgrep utility (or some name similar to that) that might be helpful. Don't think it's in debian though
11:22<themill>judd: info ext3grep
11:22<judd>themill: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
11:22<themill>:(
11:22<joss>themill: guess theres also sed i think with /p
11:22<joss>just to print the matches
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11:23<themill>joss: and -n, but that's overkill unless you have a really weird expression that you're looking for or want to also process the output
11:23<joss>something like | sed /regex//p
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11:24<joss>uuh..themill indeed
11:24<themill>stew: judd doesn't love us any more?!
11:24<jandd>themill: grep -a -A 100 -B 100 in combination with less is what I was looking for
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11:25<themill>jandd: excellent. Have fun with that... good luck recovering whatever file it is you're looking for!
11:26<joss>themill: actually, i was tweaking xorg to include xf4vnc..by patching 1.5.2 release, hmm, there is a patch agains their package as well
11:26<jandd>themill: ... it's actually some mail to my AM that my little son destroyed by killing my X-Session :-(
11:26<gooseunix>hi all any can play conbatarms in wine ?
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11:26<joss>should try that to remove xclipboard error, chromium was compiling just fine
11:26<themill>jandd: oh dear!
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11:27<joss>http://metavnc.sourceforge.net/pukiwiki-en/index.php?X.org%20xserver%201.4%20and%20later
11:28<gooseunix>fear game ?
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11:29<gooseunix>well zzzzZZZZZZ
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11:31<mrrangerman43>anyone know how to get rid of iceweasel's default flash player?
11:31<themill>dpkg: tell mrrangerman43 about adobe flash
11:32<themill>mrrangerman43: I presume that's what you mean...
11:32<Tekno>sudo apt-get purge swfdec
11:32<Tekno>swfdec is default flash in lenny
11:32<themill>(and that's gnome's default not iceweasel's default)
11:32<AnMaster>err I was following http://www.debian.org/releases/lenny/i386/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html, in step 4.5.4 apt-get gave me a huge warning that (at the command "apt-get install apt") it would remove util-linux and tzdata. Is that normal?
11:33<AnMaster>and if it isn't, what should I do to fix it?
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11:34<AnMaster>http://paste.debian.net/28901/
11:34<AnMaster>is the full output
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11:34<mrrangerman43>I have adobe flash but iceweasel defaults to the swfdec
11:34<Tekno>remove it
11:34<themill>mrrangerman43: there's an alternative that you can fiddle too. /msg dpkg alternatives
11:34<themill>AnMaster: that's not normal...
11:35<joss>ok c ya
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11:35<AnMaster>themill, then what the heck do I do? I'm not used to debian, and this is a vps so I only have ssh to it
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11:36<themill>AnMaster: I've mainly been working with aptitude for etch->lenny. What does "aptitude install aptitude" want to do?
11:36<AnMaster>a sec
11:36<AnMaster>http://paste.debian.net/28902/
11:36<AnMaster>that
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11:38<themill>AnMaster: that looks much better.
11:38<AnMaster>what is that stuff about kept back?
11:38<themill>aptitude ++, apt-get --.
11:38<tcsetattr>AnMaster, what is that "tzdata-etch" package you've got? can you get rid of it and see if that helps the libc6 situation?
11:38<themill>AnMaster: that's packages that are not being upgraded yet. You'll upgrade them in a subsequent step
11:38<AnMaster>tcsetattr, hm ok, also no idea what that package is
11:39<AnMaster>is it safe to get rid of?
11:39<tcsetattr>well it's only updated timezome data. you can do without that for a few minutes :))
11:39<AnMaster>mhm
11:39<tcsetattr>(and probably forever, unless you live in a place that has changed its timezone rules recently)
11:39<themill>no... tzdata-etch is a virtual package.
11:39<AnMaster>um ok
11:39<AnMaster>so what do I do then?
11:40<tcsetattr>somehow it conflicts with new libc6 though.
11:40<themill>And libc6 in etch depends on it.
11:40<AnMaster>aptitude remove tzdata-etch && aptitude install aptitude ?
11:40<mrrangerman43>hey thanks I had to go through sanaptic to get rid of it, but all is well... thanks again
11:40<themill>tcsetattr: but aptitude resolves that.
11:40<AnMaster>or will that break stuff too
11:40<themill>AnMaster: no, just "aptitude install aptitude" is fine. Aptitude is clever enough to cope with upgrading the tzdata package too which solves the problem
11:40<tcsetattr>how about just "aptitude install libc6" and see what that does. It's a smaller goal than "aptitude install aptitude" so it might be easier to get done.
11:40<AnMaster>oh also the system is a vps, I can't upgrade kernel. it is "2.6.18-92.1.13.el5.028stab059.3ent"
11:40<themill>tcsetattr: no. stop.
11:41<AnMaster>but since it is a vps I can't change that, so I have to hope it will work
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11:41<themill>AnMaster: you might want to double check with your provider as to whether lenny works. We've seen quite a few udev issues with lenny on a vps depending on what sort of virtualisation is used.
11:42<tcsetattr>oh stop ordering people to stop. what's your idea?
11:42<AnMaster>themill, uh openvz iirc?
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11:43<themill>tcsetattr: you're offering dangerous and bad advice and requesting you to stop in one short line and then explaining later is better than me spending a few minutes writing you a polite essay while someone breaks their system. Sorry for the abruptness...
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11:43<AnMaster>themill, the host runs RHEL 5 iirc
11:43<AnMaster>$ cat /proc/version
11:43<AnMaster>Linux version 2.6.18-92.1.13.el5.028stab059.3ent (root@rhel5-32-build) (gcc version 4.1.2 20070626 (Red Hat 4.1.2-14)) #1 SMP Wed Oct 15 18:41:27 MSD 2008
11:43<themill>AnMaster: I'm pretty sure it was openvz that people have been having troubles with, but I've not been following carefully enough.
11:43<tcsetattr>"aptitude install libc6" will do a subset of what "aptitude install aptitude" will do. It can't be less safe, and might be more so.
11:43<AnMaster>themill, so what do I do then? Stay on etch? I can't afford messing this vps up really...
11:44<tcsetattr>anyway, the kernel thing is pretty important so better check on that first :)
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11:44<AnMaster>I guess there are no longer any updates for etch, not even security, so...
11:45<themill>yes, the kernel is the most important thing to check out.
11:45<debianforlife>there are security updates for etch
11:45<themill>AnMaster: etch has another ~12months of security support
11:45<AnMaster>debianforlife, for how long?
11:45<AnMaster>ah good
11:45<AnMaster>:)
11:45<debianforlife>about a year
11:45<AnMaster>right
11:45<AnMaster>that is enough time
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11:46<goris>hi
11:46<themill>AnMaster: my suggestion would be to talk to your provider. You've not done anything irreversible yet, so just change your sources.list back and ask them. You could even offer to test it out for them in a fresh vps rather than risking yours ;)
11:47<goris>some body from Russia where?
11:47<themill>!ru
11:47<dpkg>Russian speakers, please use (Pogalujsta, zajdite na) (Pazhaluista, zahodite na) #debian-russian @ irc.freenode.net
11:47<goris>thank
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11:47<AnMaster>themill, already done that. And I'm probably going to ask if he has a freebsd vps (no offence meant, it is just that I have been using freebsd for years, so it doesn't hold horrible surprises for me, I'm sure debian is good, but I don't know debian as well...). Thanks for all the help :)
11:48<AnMaster>cya all :)
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11:49*tcsetattr still wonders what themill thinks is "dangerous" about stopping a big upgrade with lots of "BROKEN" and "conflict" warnings, breaking it down into smaller steps, and running them independently... that's how I've done it since potato->woody
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11:51<themill>tcsetattr: no you're right... I thought you were proposing something else since you seemed to be following completely the wrong lead on tzdata-etch. You were looking far more clueless than you obviously are ;)
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11:53<tcsetattr>I didn't know what tzdata-etch was, and packages.debian.org/tzdata-etch didn't find it at all so I figured it was a rogue home-rolled package causing problems. on second look, I found that it comes from volatile
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11:54<zulu>do you know when kernel 2.6.28 will appear in sid?
11:54<tcsetattr>about the time 2.6.35 appears on kernel.org
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11:54<zulu>pff -.-
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11:55<themill>tcsetattr: it's a virtual package that is provided by all tzdata packages in etch
11:55<digitaloktay>hi debian
11:55<themill>zulu: /msg dpkg trunk kernel
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11:56<zulu>i do not want this trunk kernel i just want to know when 2.6.28 appears in sid
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11:56<tcsetattr>then it's especially surprising that packages.debian.org/tzdata-etch doesn't find it. that search doesn't include Provides at all?
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12:02<rettub>hi, I've big problem with 3D, ati radeon 9300pro (rv280), lenny kernel 2.6.28, amd xp2600. If I start eg. etracer xorg will have a load of 95%. No more keyboard, If I kill9 it via ssh it will become a zombi with the same load. any hints?
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12:02<rettub>glxgears says eg.:802 frames in 5.0 seconds = 160.398 FPS
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12:02<rettub>like to see logs, confi? http://paste.debian.net/28896
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12:03<themill>tcsetattr: no, unfortunately, not. Perhaps report a wishlist bug that such a facility be included...
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12:04<rettub>s/radeon 9300pro/radeon 9200pro/
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12:07<tcsetattr>hey, that's the same radeon I have! ... but I have no idea what etracer is so I'm kind of lost.
12:07<Matzee>hello everyone!
12:08<goris>hi
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12:08<Matzee>sorry to disturb, can i bother someone with some questions regarding the rc.local file?
12:08<dmoerner>Matzee, what is your question
12:10<Matzee>well, its clear that this file is responsible for the boot startup of applications. so. here is the thing. i put the path and filename into it, but it wont start. i even tried su -c "command" username...
12:10<Matzee>and if i start it manually after the boot is finished, its working
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12:11<Matzee>i'm using lenny now. in etch it worked before, but now i'm completly clueless what to do
12:12<tcsetattr>there are plenty of differences between being in rc.local and being run after you login. can you be more specific about what you're trying to run, and what error messages you get?
12:12<Matzee>funny thing, i don't get any error messages. here is the line from rc.local
12:13<Matzee>/usr/bin/vncserver -geomerty 1024x768 -depth 24
12:13<Matzee>and as i said i even tried su -c "/usr/bin/vncserver -geomerty 1024x768 -depth 24" username
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12:14<tcsetattr>is rc.local running at all? you could put "echo rc.local is running ; sleep 30" at the top to find out for sure
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12:15<Matzee>1 sec i try that
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12:16<rettub>tcsetattr: sry - brb ..
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12:18<Matzee>ok you were right. it's not running
12:18<Matzee>:)
12:18<Matzee>now comes the stupidest question ever: how do i make it run? :D
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12:19<tcsetattr>do you have an /etc/rc2.d/S99rc.local or something like it?
12:19<tcsetattr>ls -l /etc/rc*/S99*local* oughtta find it
12:20<rettub>tcsetattr: etracer -- 3D racing game featuring Tux, the Linux penguin - just for testing purpose
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12:20<Matzee>yup got it
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12:21<sjall>hi, if i exec apt-get install iceweasel right after i install a base system with a netinstall cd, will that command grab the xorg server too?
12:21<rettub>tcsetattr: do you have probs with 3D - and do you have a amd processor?
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12:22<tcsetattr>rettub, sorry to get your hopes up, I make little or no use of 3d acceleration.
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12:24<sjall>can someone please let me know? thanks
12:24<tcsetattr>Matzee, now we have to debug S99rc.local I guess. put #!/bin/sh -x at the top and hope it dumps a big debug log
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12:25<rettub>tcsetattr: normaly me too - but it should just work :)
12:26<Matzee>tcsetattr, kk i do that tanks, gimme some minutes :)
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12:32<Matzee>tcsetattr, ok now the rc.local started
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12:34<tcsetattr>it started working when you put sh -x in there? strange
12:34<themill>sjall: no it won't. /msg dpkg install xorg
12:35<sjall>i dont want to know how to install xorg but i will try this anyway, thanks
12:36<tcsetattr>sjall, if you could explain what you're getting at maybe we could answer better.
12:37<themill>!wayttd sjall
12:37<dpkg>What Are You Trying To Do, sjall?
12:37<oxmoz>hello all, just a question, what incremental backup manager would you advice? I heard about rdiff-backup and rsnapshot
12:37<sjall>i was satisfied with the answer no to my question
12:37<themill>oxmoz: I quite like rsnapshot. I have it running twice per day and it has saved me on more than one occasion.
12:37<Matzee>tcsetattr, can i /msg you? i don't want to flood the channel
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12:38<tcsetattr>ok, Matzee
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12:38<sjall>themill: im just wondering how some things work in debian. thought id find out about this without running it.
12:38<tcsetattr>sjall, the reason being that X clients don't necessarily have to be on the same machine as the X server so there's not a hard dependency that forces a server installation
12:38<sjall>tcsetattr: yes i am aware of that
12:38<oxmoz>themill: thanks :) I'll give it a try
12:39<tcsetattr>sjall, I wasn't confident enough about the iceweasel case in particular to give a definite answer to your hypothetical scenario
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12:40<sjall>tcsetattr: sure dont bother, its nothing important and totally unrelated to debian. as i said before, you answered why question, your reasoning was a bonus.
12:40<sjall>thanks
12:40<sjall>& bye :)
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12:42<sjall>one other thing. what if i apt-get install gnome ? will that grab xorg ?
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12:45<sjall>i guess its the same as iceweasel, but someone told me it would
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12:58<cc>who is there
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13:08<riccardo>sdf
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13:14<bsssh>hey! I have a small question on bash..
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13:16<bsssh>I want to run script2 within script1. Script2 lies in another directory. I call script2 as $var="pathto/script2" in script1. It works. But script2 own working directory stays as from script1!... How can I execute script2, so its pwd is not from where it was started, but where it lies?..
13:17<bsssh>script1 is /data/prj. script2 is /data/prj/subprj/.
13:17<tcsetattr>"working directory" means "working directory", not "directory where the program is located"
13:17<bsssh>if I perform pwd within script2, i get path of script1....
13:17<bzed>sure
13:17<bzed>that's a feature, not a bug
13:18<tcsetattr>no you don't. you get the directory that you were in when you started script1, unless script1 did a cd.
13:18<bsssh>how can I switch this feature?
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13:18<tcsetattr>stop trying to use the cwd to find program file. that's not what it's for.
13:18<bsssh>script2 is supposed to cp several where it lies.
13:18<themill>bsssh: cd /data/prj/subprj ; ./script2
13:19<tcsetattr>programs should generally not operate on data relative to their own location. that's confusing to the user.
13:19<bsssh>thewill hmm. nice option. thx!
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13:19<bzed>bsssh: that's ugly. though.
13:19<bzed>bsssh: use somthing like targetdir=/foo/bar; cp suff $targetdir
13:20<themill>bzed: presumably script2 does a little more than that though
13:20<bzed>or similar things
13:21<bsssh>themill: no. only copy several , local files to /usr/bin.
13:21<bzed>themill: you should never assume that the working directory is the directory where something is located
13:21<tcsetattr>if you're in /etc and you type "cat resolv.conf", do you want cat to show you the resolv.conf in your current working directory (/etc) or do you expect it to find the directory where the "cat" program is and then look for a resolv.conf there?
13:21<bzed>bsssh: now that sounds really broken.
13:21<themill>bsssh: oh... in that case, you shouldn't be using a second script for it at all
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13:21<bzed>bsssh: probably you want to explain what you really want to do
13:21<themill>bzed: . can be a sensible default, however.
13:22<bzed>themill: sorry, but that's completely broken to use it in scripts imho.
13:22<bzed>except for dirty hacks
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13:22<bsssh>themill, its decentered installer. Script1 finds if script2..3..4 are present and calls them in row. 2...3..4 install or uninstall local files to system.
13:22<tcsetattr>if you really really really think you know what you're doing, you can probably find the script's full path in $0, assuming it was invoked through the #! mechanism
13:23<themill>bzed: no, . is frequently used as the default in POSIX. e.g. ln (1).
13:23<themill>tcsetattr: now that really is ugly
13:23<bzed>themill: ln is not some random script
13:23<bzed>themill: and tcsetattr is right, if you *need* to figure out where a script is, you can try it via $0. there's no other way
13:23<tcsetattr>I'm advocating against it. but I don't withhold information :)
13:23<themill>bzed: exactly. . is a sensible default location.
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13:24<tcsetattr>there's /proc/self/exe but in a script that will only tell you where the interpreter (shell) is.
13:24<themill>bzed: and I can give you many situations where $0 is useless. Yes, it's the only way, but it also doesn't work.
13:24<bzed>themill: . doesn't work if you want to use the directory where the script is located
13:24<bzed>bsssh: first I think you don't want to use /usr/bin for whatever you're doing there
13:25<bsssh>guys, I have /data/prj/script1. It seaches for ./subprj1/installer ./subprj2/installer etc. And executes them. ./subprjX/installer should copy or remove locally kept(this dir) files to system.
13:25<bzed>bsssh: use /usr/local for it.
13:25<themill>bzed: why are we arguing about this anyway? . is a sensible place for a script to do things, not for it to locate itself. Regarding $0, see http://wooledge.org:8000/BashFAQ/028
13:25<bsssh>bzed: thanks for idea. :)
13:25<bzed>bsssh: and then i think you want to use something like stow probab;y
13:26<bzed>themill: i know.
13:26<bsssh>bzed thats too BIG for several bash scripts...
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13:27<bzed>bsssh: stow is not big, and it works well
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13:27<bzed>bsssh: instead of writing something that seems to be broken ;)
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13:28<hasimausi>hay
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13:29<bsssh>is there a way to execute a script2 within another script1, so that executed script(2) recieves original working dir (where it truly lies), and NOT that of script1?
13:29<serg>привет
13:29<bsssh>thats what I want to do.
13:30<bsssh>.... :(
13:30<tcsetattr>"working dir" does not mean what you want it to mean!
13:30<tcsetattr>"where it truly lies" has nothing to do with "working directory"!
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13:31<bsssh>but you understood me, if you're able to destinguish it... :)
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13:31<bzed>bsssh: I still don';t think that's really what you want to do. I guess you're trying to write some kind of installer - there're enough working tools around, probably better to use one of them?
13:32<bsssh>bzed, thats correct. I already noted one, mentioned here. Thanks!) But I want to solve the problem aswell, so I get away with some knowledge..
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13:32<bzed>bsssh: if you want to tell a script a directory to work on, pass it as argument.
13:32<tcsetattr>when you mean "directory containing the currently running program", say it that way. don't confuse it with working directory. we don't have a shorter term for "directory containing the currently running program" because there's no good reason to use it
13:32<bzed>bsssh: and don't rely on the fact that the script may be located in that directory
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13:33<bzed>bsssh: if you want something to work in /bar, call `something /bar` and make sure that something does enough sanety checks on $1 before using it.
13:33<themill>Is this (a) a script for personal use only and (b) a script that is to be run straight out of the tarball or project space so you have control over where it is? If so, then you can start making some assumptions.
13:34<bzed>bsssh: for example don't put rm -rf $1/ into it
13:34<bsssh>its straight personal use.
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13:34<bsssh>I should have given you the code, perhaps you can understand it better then.
13:35<bzed>probably abusing $0 is the best idea for you
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13:35<bzed>although that's ugly
13:36<themill>or require that it's run from the correct directory
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13:36<bsssh>installer.sh: _loc_mksoftentry="";_loc_mksoftentry="./mksoftentry/sing_mksoftentry"; ..if install mode.then..; "$_loc_mksoftentry" -i; ...if uninstall mode..then; "$_loc_mksoftentry" -u
13:36<bzed>or just don't put it into the directory, but put it into some other directory and just call it with the right argument
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13:37<bzed>bsssh: I still don't see the reason why the script needs to be in the working dir.
13:39<bsssh>./mksoftentry/sing_mksoftentry: if [[ "$1" == "--uninstall" || "$1" == "-u" ]]: then; rm -f /usr/bin/mksoftentry; elif [[ "$1" == "-i" || "$1" == "--install" ]]; then; cp -f mksoftentry /usr/bin/; chown root:root /usr/bin/mksoftentry; chmod 755 /usr/bin/mksoftentry
13:39<bsssh>installer finds and calls subinstallers in their own dirs. Subinstallers copy or remove local content to /usr/bin.
13:40<bsssh>the problem, subinstallers become installer dir as working dir. not their own.
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13:41<tcsetattr>the problem is you think that programs should not inherit their parent's working directory. They Do!
13:41<bsssh>can I tell it not to do it?
13:41<tcsetattr>No!
13:41<bsssh>bad :/
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13:42<tcsetattr>that's how it works! every process, regardless of whether it's a shell script or a C program or anything else, starts out with the same working directory as its parent process.
13:42<bsssh>why programms that are executed by bash get their original dirs NOT that of bash then?
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13:42<tcsetattr>you have misinterpreted.
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13:44<tcsetattr>let's follow step by step what happens
13:44<bsssh>lets do it)
13:44<tcsetattr>suppose you log in as "bsssh". the login process inherits some working directory from its parent, which is not your home directory. it wants to put you in your home directory before starting your shell.
13:45<tcsetattr>so it looks you up in /etc/passwd, finds "/home/bsssh" in there, and does a chdir("/home/bsssh"), and the runs your shell. you now have a bash process running, and the wd of that process is /home/bsssh
13:45<tcsetattr>now you want to work on your crazy installer project, so you do "cd src/crazyinst". that changes the wd of your bash process to "/home/bsssh/src/crazyinst"
13:45<rgb30>anyone know of a way to use wget so that it downloads http://www.website.com/chapter/section.pdf it creates download directories in the form of /chapter1/section1, /chapter1/section2, /chapter2/section1, /chapter2/section2 based on the structure of the urls being used?
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13:46<rgb30>...
13:46<tcsetattr>now you run "./script1" - it inherits the bash process's current working directory, which is "/home/bsssh/src/crazyinst". It got that wd NOT because that is where the script is, but because That Is Where Your Bash Was When You Ran It.
13:46<rgb30>could someone msg me with the content of what i just typed?
13:47<tcsetattr>if you were in /home/bsssh and ran "./src/crazyinst/script1", it would start up with the inherited working directory /home/bsssh, not the directory where it's located.
13:48<tcsetattr>hope we got all that cleared up now
13:49<tcsetattr>rgb30, you want to split a pdf up into a separate pdf for each chapter/section? sounds like not a job for wget but for some pdf manipulator
13:49-!-libereco [~libereco@201.165.185.38] has joined #debian
13:49<bsssh>so the idea is I should call it as "cd crazyprj1;subinstall" and NOT "./crazyprj1/subinstall"?
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13:49<tcsetattr>bsssh, the idea is I just want you to understand how wd inheritance works, then you might make smarter design decisions :)
13:50<rgb30>tcsetattr: each section is it's own pdf
13:50<rgb30>not each chapter
13:50<bsssh><tcsetattr>, thanks)
13:50<tcsetattr>rgb30, so you want to just mirror the directories that exist on the server?
13:51<shibin>i am using etch to migrate to lenny do i have to reinstall
13:51-!-[agatha] is now known as Alba
13:51<rgb30>yes, but i only want to get the pdf files. there are html files in the same directories as well
13:51<Alba>shibin, i guess it should be enough with dist-upgrade
13:51<rgb30>i do however have the urls in a text file of every pdf
13:51<rgb30>my only hang up is creating the directory structure
13:51<rgb30>during the download
13:52<rgb30>or otherwise
13:52<Alba>anyway i personally always fresh install when upgrading distros
13:52<rgb30>and getting each file save in it's respective directory
13:52<shibin>that is apt-get update & apt-get upgrade
13:52<tcsetattr>rgb30, wget -A '*.pdf' -m -np would be a good start
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13:53<rocko>hello
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13:53<Alba>hmm no shibin that's to update the current distro, the etch packages... dist-upgrade should upgrade to lenny, if i am not wrong.. but as i said i've never used it, i normally just make a fresh install
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13:54<Alba>just a second because i think i am wrong :)
13:54<yuki>hi
13:54<tcsetattr>shibin, apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade will get the job done if you're lucky (and you don't have a lot of obsolete packages conflicting things up)
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13:54<yuki>???
13:54<yuki>nvm
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13:55<Alba>oh thanks tcsetattr
13:55<shibin>man dist-upgarde No manual entry for dist-upgrade
13:55<tcsetattr>it's "apt-get dist-upgrade". man apt-get if you want to read about it
13:55<Alba>shibin, man apt-get
13:56<tcsetattr>dist-upgrade is just like upgrade except it gives apt-get permission to install new packages as needed
13:56<rettub>!dpkg etch-lenny
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13:56<rettub>shibin: do /msg dpkg etch-lenny
13:57<bsssh><tcsetattr> PLUS remove unneeded. <upgrade> never removes stuff if its needed for upgrade.
13:57<rettub>sry: etch->lenny
13:57<tcsetattr>there's no need to worry about getting it wrong; if you don't like what apt-get dist-upgrade wants to do you can just say "n" at the Y/n prompt
13:57<shibin>before that i have index 5 dvd (apt-get dist-upgrade)
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13:58<shibin>what does /msg dpkg etch-lenny do??
13:58<bsssh>tcsetattr, thanks for info. I reread all opinions and understood it.
13:58<bsssh>opinions*
13:58-!-punk [~linuh@95-52-53-113.dynamic.murmansk.dslavangard.ru] has joined #debian
13:58<tcsetattr>shibin, it sends a message to the irc bot named "dpkg" which will provoke a canned reply about upgrading.
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13:58<rettub>do /msg dpkg etch->lenny
13:59<rgb30>tcsetattr: that worked fine. just one more thing. all the pdfs are named {01..10}.pdf, but there are other pdfs in the directory named {01..10}old.pdf. i'm getting the old ones as well during my download. is there any way to exclude those from the list?
13:59<tcsetattr>people here have some kind of socialization disorder where they tell each other to tell the bot to tell themselves stuff, instead of talking to each other
13:59<rettub>that will give you some hints
13:59<bsssh> /msg dpkg sid
13:59<tcsetattr>rgb30, there's a -R for reject, but I'm not sure whether it takes precedence over -A. you could combine -A '*.pdf' with -R '*old*' and that might work
13:59<rocko>https://pastebin.ca/raw/1343808 how do I let wodim know the size of tracks for sao ?
14:00<rocko>Note that wodim needs to know the
14:00<rocko> size of each track in advance for this mode
14:00<rettub>tcsetattr: sry, but with this infos you can get the best hints I think ...
14:00<bsssh>Sorry, anyone aware of any opensource gui dvdburn tool, capable of UDF write(other than k3b)?
14:01<bsssh>i bet no :(
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14:01<rettub>specially reading the release nodes: http://www.debian.org/releases/lenny/i386/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html
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14:02<punk>hello everybody!!! i change my videocard and can't startx , but i dont now which module write in xorg.conf . How can i get info about my videocard?
14:02-!-fxiny [~fxiny@host54-19-dynamic.180-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
14:02<rickbot>bsssh: qdvdauthor
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14:02<tcsetattr>rocko, looks like you need to use the tsize= option to wodim
14:02<bsssh>rickbot thx!
14:02-!-Il_vitello_dai is now known as Ryuken
14:02<Ryuken>hi
14:02<shibin>thank for information & time.
14:02<rocko>thought so tcsetattr
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14:03<rocko>so do I just put the size in kilobytes of the iso image i want to burn tcsetattr
14:03<tcsetattr>under tsize= in the wodim man page there are some instructions on how to get the size
14:03<rickbot>not sure if its what you want. i've used it for dvd authoring only but i does have a burn capability too
14:03<bsssh>omg, its Qt again... Any gtk-based?
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14:03<rettub>punk: lspci (or as root lspci -vvnn)
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14:04<rgb30>tcsetattr: thx
14:04<bsssh>rickbot I want to burn DVD datafiles in UDF !from qt-based tool...
14:04<bsssh>!=not
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14:04<bsssh>rickbot cause k3b is the only one app that I need qt for...
14:04<enouf>bsssh: use growisofs, or udftools
14:05<bsssh>enouf im gui fanatic :(
14:05<rickbot>doesn't brasero do it?
14:05<punk>rettub ,thanx
14:05-!-rgb30 [~rgb30@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:05<bsssh>rickbot nope
14:05<enouf>gui? but !=qt?
14:05<enouf>gtk?
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14:05<bsssh>enoug gtk/+
14:06<bsssh>enoug flk, pygtk etc
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14:06<enouf>there are tons, no?
14:06<bsssh>enouf none of non-qt gui wrappers supports udf...
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14:06<tcsetattr>'apt-cache search dvd burn' shows plenty of alternatives
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14:07<bsssh>tcsetattr I did that long before. can_burn_UDF && NOT_qt_based=>0
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14:09<tcsetattr>well they all say they can burn data DVDs. doesn't that imply UDF?
14:09<kapil>bsssh: use growisofs / udftools in an xterm (that's gui!) :-)
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14:13<vincent>o
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14:19<valdyn>bsssh: try brasero
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14:19<Tekno>what do you use for DVB ?
14:19<valdyn>Tekno: digital video broadcast
14:19<Tekno>yea but what program
14:19<valdyn>Tekno: mplayer or xine or totem
14:20-!-duraperidol [~nohost@205.207.102.195] has joined #debian
14:20<valdyn>Tekno: or some kde program that i dont know
14:20<Tekno>i tried kaffeine
14:20<Tekno>doesnt work for some reason
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14:20<Tekno>cant click "digital tv" button
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14:20<Tekno>nothing happens
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14:20<valdyn>Tekno: you generated your channels.conf file?
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14:21<Tekno>yes I think
14:21<Tekno>with kaffeine
14:21<valdyn>Tekno: please dont "think" please be sure
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14:23<valdyn>Tekno: dvb c or s or t ?
14:24<jony>how can I stop the process application
14:24<valdyn>jony: whats the process application?
14:24<acu>is any equivalent for ctrl-alt-delete in linux
14:24<valdyn>acu: ctrl-alt-delete
14:24<jony>synaptic package manager
14:24-!-meoblast001 [~meoblast0@dynamic-acs-24-239-93-241.zoominternet.net] has joined #debian
14:24<Tekno>valdyn: dvb-t
14:24<valdyn>acu: that just does not work from x
14:24<jony>is not responting
14:24<jony>is not responding
14:25<valdyn>jony: just close the window
14:25<jony>it does not works
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14:25<valdyn>Tekno: does ~/.mplayer/ exist?
14:25<Tarcas>alt F4?
14:26<Tekno>valdyn: no
14:26<jony>ok thanls
14:26<valdyn>Tekno: is mplayer installed?
14:26<Tekno>no
14:26<Tekno>:D
14:26<Tekno>I'll install it then
14:26<Tekno>but what after?
14:26<valdyn>Tekno: install it if you want help, i cant debug kaffeine
14:26<jony>ok thanks Tarcas
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14:27<valdyn>Tekno: and create the directory ~/.mplayer/
14:27<valdyn>Tekno: and let me know when you are done with that
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14:28<Tekno>valdyn: ok im done
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14:29<valdyn>Tekno: run "scan /usr/share/dvb/dvb-t/<insert file for your location> > ~/.mplayer/channels.conf" and paste channels.conf and verify that that file is not empty after that run
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14:30<Tekno>valdyn: bash: scan: command not found
14:30<CyPRioT>hi guys does anyone knows; can i use 2 different tunnel broker login in tspc.conf ?
14:30<nomaan>hello I have just installed lenny using the CD-1, I can now browse internet but it seems like I am missing lots of packages apt-get is not working
14:30-!-sol [~sol@97-118-110-126.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #debian
14:30<valdyn>Tekno: install dvb-apps
14:31<Tekno>k
14:31<sol>hi, on Ubu 8.10, Forum is down ??
14:31<Tarcas>nomaan: is Aptitude working?
14:31<dr|z3d>nomaan: does aptitude work?
14:31<nomaan>tarcas I never used aptitude before
14:31-!-albert [~albert@9.Red-88-18-204.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #debian
14:31<Tarcas>it works the same as apt.
14:31<Tarcas>apt-get
14:32<dr|z3d>nomaan: aptitude update && aptitude full-upgrade
14:32<cahoot>nomaan: define 'not working'
14:32<tcsetattr>nomaan, you probably just need to add a full "main" line to your sources.list
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14:33<nomaan>dr|z3d: I ran its working but it is not showing anything
14:33<nomaan>it says i dont have any updates i must have updates right
14:33-!-midlis [~midlis@static-87-243-204-50.adsl.hotchilli.net] has joined #debian
14:33<valdyn>nomaan: nope
14:34-!-zulu [~noname@191.194.206-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #debian
14:34<zulu>hello
14:34<nomaan>when i try to install synaptic i get the error no candidate version found for synaptic
14:34<zulu>i just installed lenny
14:34<valdyn>!sources.list
14:34<dpkg>The list of repositories for installing packages is /etc/apt/sources.list and has lines like "deb http://ftp.<cc>.debian.org/debian lenny main" and "deb http://security.debian.org/ lenny/updates main" where <cc> is your country code. Be sure to run "aptitude update" after editing sources.list. Also see <mirrors> <apt-spy> <apt-setup> <lenny security> <testing security> "man sources.list" and /usr/share/doc/apt/examples/sources.list
14:34<Tekno>valdyn: http://paste.debian.net/28919/
14:34<zulu>what about the security?
14:34<valdyn>nomaan: read what dpkg said
14:34<zulu>is a firewall activated?
14:35<valdyn>Tekno: nice, now run mplayer dvb:// or mplayer "dvb://YLE TV2"
14:35<nomaan>No candidate version found for synaptic No packages will be installed, upgraded, or removed.
14:35-!-m42 [~m42@a81-84-75-63.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #debian
14:35<valdyn>nomaan: read what dpkg said
14:35<Tekno>valdyn: works, cool! thanks
14:36<valdyn>Tekno: that channels.conf should be for all apps that play dvb, but some need it at different places
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14:36<CyPRioT>hi guys does anyone knows; can i use 2 different tunnel broker login in tspc.conf ?
14:36<valdyn>Tekno: say like "~/.xine/channels.conf" or "~/.gstreamer-0.10/dvb-channels.conf
14:37<Tekno>alright
14:37<sol>how'd u reply to that so fast ? ! valdyn
14:38-!-dr|zed [~dr|z3d@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
14:38<valdyn>sol: Im not particularily fast
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14:39<nomaan>here is my sources.list http://pastebin.com/m3f68d07c
14:39<sol>me too / neither... install prob, update mgr failing, need forum ubu 8.10, ignoring me, thot I'd check u guys out...
14:39<fxiny>hmmm : localepurge not purging
14:40<tcsetattr>silly installer. gives you security and volatile but leaves out the main archive
14:40<Tarcas>I saw someone mention that yesterday. Unfortunately since it's stable they wouldn't change it... but they should be told so as not to make that mistake in squeek.
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14:42*fxiny grinds the axe : 96% /
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14:43<nomaan>tcsetattr: This is what happened with me
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14:44<nomaan>I was asking for help with apt but it seems like I have volatile packages installed
14:44<nomaan>so I need to change my sources.list to lenny main
14:44<valdyn>nomaan: thats ok
14:44<tcsetattr>guess it assumes that when you install from CD or DVD you won't need net updates except for security. but that's only true if you have the full set of disks, and even then it'll only true until 5.0r1 comes out
14:44<valdyn>nomaan: dpkg told you what you need to add
14:44<nomaan>valdyn it did?
14:45<nomaan>valdyn ohh man I wish I had used the old net install method
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14:45<nomaan>Debian's graphical install sucks it does not tell me what it is doing in the background
14:46-!-zulu [~noname@191.194.206-77.rev.gaoland.net] has left #debian [Konversation terminated!]
14:46<cahoot>switch console?
14:46<valdyn>hey, im to stupid to add a line to sources.list, so ill just blame the graphical installer
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14:46<tcsetattr>the installer should make a better effort on the initial sources.list. CD1+security+volatile isn't great.
14:46<nomaan>valdyn: well the installer should have told me that its using volatile instead of lenny main
14:46<fxiny>old dear cd /usr/share/locale rm -fr some* --> 91% / :P
14:46<valdyn>nomaan: volatile is an addition, its not an instead
14:47<tcsetattr>but installers are hard to do right. don't get too mad.
14:47<nomaan>and the partition manager also sucks its too difficult
14:47<valdyn>!volatile
14:47<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, volatile is a project that aims at keeping the stable distribution up to date for fast moving packages such as virus scanners, spam scanners and firmware downloaders. It can be found at http://volatile.debian.org/. An example line for your lenny sources.list is: deb http://volatile.debian.org/debian-volatile lenny/volatile main contrib non-free
14:48<fxiny>volatile++
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14:49<nomaan>:)
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14:50<Tarcas>why are the dat files included in the package? Shouldn't they get those from a separate source (i.e. the product's site, rather than a deb repository?)
14:50<fxiny>no mercy : aptitude purge localepurge :P
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14:55<Hideo>dbus and dbus-x11 are dependencies required by abiword, gnumeric and other packages, it is required to be installed, however, if I want to disable it, how do I do that?
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14:57<themill>Hideo: you can't
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14:57<themill>Hideo: In lenny, "aptitude why abiword dbus" to find out why
14:57<bruno>mi serve aiuto
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14:58<Hideo>themill: :( I don't see a use for it, it runs fine w/o dbus
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14:58<themill>how?
14:58<bruno>quanto costa $ mini inspiron 910??
14:59<themill>!it
14:59<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
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15:00<tcsetattr>holy crap! aptitude why did-nobody-tell-me-about-aptitude-why-before it rules.
15:00<Hideo>themill: everything got along fine before w/o dbus, it's just a resource hog IMO
15:00<valdyn>Hideo: so you dont understand what it does.
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15:01<fxiny>Hideo: aptitude -R -s install gnumeric
15:01<Hideo>valdyn: true, but whatever it does, or doesn't does not affect me, which is why I don't see a need for it
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15:01<fxiny>it looks like is recommended only
15:02<fxiny>yes : The following packages are RECOMMENDED but will NOT be installed:
15:02<Hideo>fxiny: that didn't do anything :) , I'm using sid btw
15:02<fxiny>dbus-x11 evince gnome-keyring gnome-mount libgnomevfs2-extra
15:02<tcsetattr>if you're sure it's not needed, you could use equivs to fake out the dependency
15:02<fxiny>Hideo: this is on my fresh lenny
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15:04<themill>fxiny: it's not in lenny
15:04<themill>(I mean, it's not only recommended in lenny)
15:04<fxiny>themill: yes ?
15:05<themill>abiword depends on libgoffice which depends on libgnomevfs which depends on dbus.
15:05<fxiny>dbus-x11 ?
15:05<Hideo>fxiny: yep
15:05-!-Torsten_W [~torsten@erft-4db7cbfe.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #debian
15:05<fxiny>themill: you are right : Installed: 1.2.1-5
15:06<themill>fxiny: so installing abiword has dbus as a dependency. Other things are recommends though.
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15:06<Hideo>tcsetattr: equivs looks interesting, I'm checking it out
15:06<themill>tcsetattr: yes, aptitude why is fantastic! (it's new in lenny) There's also "aptitude why not" for helping with conflicts.
15:08-!-maz [~maz@88.75.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #debian
15:08<tcsetattr>I don't know what dbus does so I can't predict the result of faking it with equivs. But equivs helped me avoid my own least favorite dependency: libgtk2.0-0 depends on libcups2. Come on, I don't even have a printer. (if I did I'd use lpr+lpd anyway)
15:08<fxiny>themill: i just upgraded a small forgotten etch (2.5G 2.2G 223M 91% /) . can't remember all stuff installed . purging it removes : hal kde-core and kdebase
15:09<fxiny>amazing upgrade , i was told yesterday the procedure to follow , not a single problem
15:10<Hideo>fxiny: hal and dbus are two extraneous things I hate and always try to remove / disable as soon as possible
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15:10<themill>tcsetattr: you're missing out on your virtual pdf printer!
15:10<themill>Hideo: yes, it's horrible being able to plug in new hardware and having it work.
15:11<Hideo>themill: yes :P , but I like having control over my computer, I don't want it to automatically do things
15:11<fxiny>Hideo: this one is a kde partition i never use , i did a dumb upgrade last week and yesterday stew told me i was wrong . so being f* curious i did this upgrade today
15:12<fxiny>to see
15:12<tcsetattr>package management isn't primarily designed for people like me and Hideo who don't like bloat. it's primarily designed for people who'll be completely stumped when everything doesn't work immediately.
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15:13<fxiny>Hideo: i know what you mean : i don't like avahi ;)
15:13-!-axelote [~axelote@38-240-231-201.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [Quit: leaving]
15:13<Hideo>fxiny: and that too, how could I forget :)
15:14<Hideo>tcsetattr: aka ubuntu and mac people
15:14<fxiny>anyway . aptitude is a great tool know . comparing it to sarge version and even etch
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15:15<valdyn>tcsetattr: im sure you have bigger bloat on your system that libcups2 can be
15:15<valdyn>tcsetattr: like uh, localisation data
15:16<valdyn>tcsetattr: vim scripts that you never use
15:16<themill>libcups2: Installed-Size: 300.... right... that's massive bloat! Quick, rewrite all the DEs to have no printer support!
15:16<Hideo>valdyn: but those don't necessarily run all the time
15:16<valdyn>Hideo: i was specifically talking about libcups2
15:17<valdyn>Hideo: that doesnt run either
15:17<fxiny>valdyn: you mean locales ? i could not let localepurge clearing it up
15:17<valdyn>fxiny: you already did i thought
15:17<tcsetattr>it's the principle of the thing. gtk is a graphical widget library. it shouldn't be dictating to me which printer daemon I should use.
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15:18<valdyn>tcsetattr: it doesnt do that
15:18-!-h2oman [waynew@cpe-72-129-30-193.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
15:18<tcsetattr>anti-bloat is about the senselessness of the creeping features as much as it is about saving disk or CPU
15:18-!-kd394817175 [~nohost@205.207.102.195] has joined #debian
15:18<tcsetattr>is it reasonable or possible to make use of libcups2 without having a cups daemon?
15:18-!-Vivek [~Vivek@125.99.120.106] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:18<valdyn>tcsetattr: yes
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15:19<valdyn>tcsetattr: you dont need a local spool
15:19<tcsetattr>that's surprising
15:19<Hideo>I hate that hal, dbus, and avahi not only are dependent upon but also run in the background all the time, some of them I can disable, but some I can't like dbus
15:19<tcsetattr>oh, so the library can connect to remote all by itself?
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15:20<Stargazer84>hello
15:20<valdyn>tcsetattr: i havent looked into how it creates its connection. But a library connecting wouldnt be unusual at all, and i know what i stated
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15:21<Stargazer84>anyone can help me with a synchronization problem that i have?
15:21<tcsetattr>it seems to be implying that gtk programs which know how to print will insist on cups, and not cooperate with lpr.
15:21<tcsetattr>or maybe not, since the only library support you need to talk to lpr is popen()
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15:22<tcsetattr>go ahead and ask, Stargazer84, we need new interesting stuff to talk about
15:22<fxiny>no one complaining about fonts ? GOOD :))
15:22<fxiny>lenny looks like a very good release
15:23<Stargazer84>lets say that i have 20 clients that need to have synchronized a folder from a server
15:23<Stargazer84>the data transfer is oneway
15:23<Stargazer84>server<-client
15:24<Stargazer84>sorry
15:24<Stargazer84>server -> client
15:24<Nemoder>that makes more sense :)
15:24-!-dli [~dli@adsl-75-21-94-12.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:24<fxiny>so far i got rid of : /usr/local/sun-jre , mrxvt compiled , rtorrent compiled , atrope-flash manually copied
15:25<fxiny>easy life
15:25<Stargazer84>also i need the data trasfer to be as minimum as posible
15:25<Nemoder>Stargazer84: rsync sounds like a good tool to start with, keeping all the clients on the same page may take a bit more work
15:25<valdyn>Stargazer84: which are the sync requirements?
15:25<valdyn>Stargazer84: instant? daily?
15:25<Stargazer84>daily
15:25<valdyn>Stargazer84: can clients modify?
15:26<fxiny>rsync -avz --delete rulez
15:26<valdyn>Stargazer84: why sync and not network share?
15:26-!-JohGro [~johan@c-83-233-18-20.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #debian
15:26<Stargazer84>i have seen rsync
15:27<Stargazer84>but i dont know if rsync server can manage more than one connections at a time
15:27<fxiny>and i have shorewall-perl :)
15:27<Stargazer84>which is essencial
15:27<valdyn>Stargazer84: you use ssh transport
15:27<valdyn>Stargazer84: it can serve plenty connections
15:27<valdyn>Stargazer84: ( as could rsync transport i guess, but who uses that )
15:28-!-JohGro [~johan@c-83-233-18-20.cust.bredband2.com] has quit []
15:28<valdyn>Stargazer84: but i still dont know why you dont just use a network share
15:28<Stargazer84>for now i use rsync with curlftpfs
15:28<Stargazer84>through ftp
15:28<Stargazer84>give me a sec
15:29<fxiny>ftp ? how was it called the fpt + gpg app ?
15:29-!-maz [~maz@88.75.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:29<valdyn>that sounds like a bad substitude for ssh
15:30<Stargazer84>the proccess must be done automaticaly and with the minimum data transfer
15:30<Stargazer84>wich rsync manages perfectly
15:30<valdyn>Stargazer84: so use rsync over ssh
15:30<valdyn>Stargazer84: i dont know why you want to add curlftpfs
15:30-!-rseifert [~rseifert@88.81.67.105] has joined #debian
15:31<fxiny>duplicity
15:31<Stargazer84>what do you mean over ssh?
15:31-!-cyberdrome [~Kozzaglia@79.99.112.61] has joined #debian
15:31<valdyn>Stargazer84: thats probably irrelevant as rsync defaults to using ssh
15:31-!-xxiao [46705665@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
15:31<valdyn>Stargazer84: "rsync /localdir server:/remotedir" uses ssh
15:32<fxiny>Stargazer84: apt-cache show duplicity
15:32-!-vinicius [~vinicius@201.21.166.106] has joined #debian
15:32<Stargazer84>in that case i think that uses rsync server to the remote machine
15:32<valdyn>Stargazer84: that uses ssh, not the rsync server
15:32<fxiny>ftp must die :P
15:32<Stargazer84>nice
15:32<valdyn>Stargazer84: rsync server is kind of obsolete
15:33<Stargazer84>but in that case which is the maximum connections that i can have
15:33<valdyn>Stargazer84: more than 20
15:33<vinicius>what is a good way of listing the hardware composition of a computer?
15:33<valdyn>Stargazer84: not a huge amount because ssh does need some cpu , but more than 20
15:33<vinicius>i know lspci, but doesnt show me ram memory size, processor speed, etc
15:33-!-dli [~dli@75.22.224.57] has joined #debian
15:33<Nemoder>vinicius: hwinfo
15:34<valdyn>Stargazer84: (naturally depending on your cpu on the server and network bandwidth )
15:34<Stargazer84>the best thing for me would be over http
15:34-!-jtaji [~jtaji@pool-72-70-128-204.hrbgpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #debian
15:34<valdyn>Stargazer84: why?
15:34<Stargazer84>but i dont think that rsync can manage that
15:34-!-hazard2 [~hazard@c-24-218-179-17.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
15:34<valdyn>Stargazer84: ssh can use a null cipher if you really want the minimum cpu usage
15:35<vinicius>Nemoder, thanks!
15:35<tcsetattr>if 20 incoming ssh connections happen all at the same time, you might run into the MaxStartups limit.
15:35-!-cyberdrome [~Kozzaglia@79.99.112.61] has quit []
15:35<Stargazer84>anyway i will try ssh and will judge the results
15:35<Stargazer84>thanx valdyn
15:35<Nemoder>Stargazer84: if this is just a daily update why not stagger them a little?
15:35<valdyn>Stargazer84: nfs is made for much higher workloads
15:36<Stargazer84>it is supposed to be dayly
15:36<Stargazer84>daily
15:36<Nemoder>i mean, like each machine 1min apart
15:36<valdyn>Stargazer84: so let the server *push* out changes 1 by 1
15:36<Nemoder>or that
15:36<valdyn>Stargazer84: that way you dont need many resources at all
15:36<Stargazer84>but the client will be checking on server every 3 minutes for changes
15:37<valdyn>Stargazer84: thats not what i would call daily, forget ssh then
15:37<Stargazer84>let me explain the situation better
15:37<tcsetattr>once a day, 480 times a day, what's the difference?
15:37-!-Idisjunction [~idisjunct@c-71-60-146-249.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #debian
15:37<valdyn>Stargazer84: and it seems to make more sense to let only one computer check for changes ( the server ) and let it push them out
15:37<Stargazer84>lets say that i have 30 drivers that thay have a computer with some files in it
15:38<Stargazer84>those files change in 20% daily
15:38<valdyn>Stargazer84: drivers?
15:38<Stargazer84>yes cars with wifi
15:38<valdyn>Stargazer84: so now you are talking about internet traffic?
15:38<tcsetattr>street traffic :)
15:38<Stargazer84>not internet
15:38<valdyn>Stargazer84: what kind of data amount and bandwidth?
15:38<Stargazer84>the main station (server)
15:39<Nemoder>generally daily is defined as 'only once per day'
15:39<Stargazer84>is at the central office of the company
15:39<Stargazer84>once per day ffiles change
15:39<Nemoder>..then why check every few mins?
15:40<Stargazer84>the computer in the car runs continiusly
15:40<valdyn>Stargazer84: how much data?
15:40<Stargazer84>50mb
15:40<Stargazer84>aprox
15:40<Stargazer84>max 10
15:40<Stargazer84>max 100mb
15:40<valdyn>Stargazer84: how many files?
15:40<Stargazer84>2-10
15:40<Nemoder>ah, and all the clients are not always connected at the time of update?
15:41<valdyn>Stargazer84: so you might even want to use diffs
15:41<Stargazer84>yes
15:41<Stargazer84>the cars come and go
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15:41<valdyn>Stargazer84: you can even use git
15:41<valdyn>funny!
15:42<Stargazer84>so i need to check every 3 min if it can see server
15:42<Stargazer84>if yes then connect and rsync to the dir
15:42<Stargazer84>git?
15:42<tcsetattr>then they stop trying to connect for the next 24 hours?
15:42<valdyn>Stargazer84: you wont have all drivers there at once
15:42-!-fxiny [~fxiny@host54-19-dynamic.180-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:42<valdyn>Stargazer84: and you can make drivers stop polling once they got an update
15:43<valdyn>Stargazer84: so nothing wrong with rsync over ssh it seems
15:43<valdyn>Stargazer84: you can use a version control system like git to minimise traffic
15:44<Stargazer84>yes but imagine this
15:44<Stargazer84>at the time of the update there are 20 out of 30 in range
15:44<Stargazer84>then what?
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15:45<valdyn>Stargazer84: i dont know your server hardware, 20 might work
15:45<Ganneff>hrm. you dont seem to have much to do with debian anymore.
15:45<Stargazer84>give me a sec
15:45<valdyn>Stargazer84: lets assume you enforce a limit of 10, then the other 10 have to wait a few minutes, thats not a problem
15:45<Ganneff>!ot
15:45<dpkg>Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic (i.e., Debian support); imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day. #debian-offtopic is the place for longer off-topic discussions.
15:45<Ganneff>that channel is better for you
15:46<Tarcas>yeah, just don't get caught discussing debian technical issues in there. They get REALLY mad when you go off topic in there.
15:46<Tarcas>:-P
15:47-!-mentor [~mentor@217.28.6.149] has joined #debian
15:47<Stargazer84>http://pastebin.com/d6d3d444d
15:47-!-libereco [~libereco@201.165.185.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:47<Stargazer84>take a look at this script
15:48<Stargazer84>it is running on client
15:48-!-michael2 [~michael@KMCDXX.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: leaving]
15:48<Ganneff>Stargazer84: i wasnt joking
15:48<valdyn>Stargazer84: we got warned, and i dont know what your problem is anymore, because i dont see one
15:48<Stargazer84>sorry
15:48<Stargazer84>havent seen it
15:48<Stargazer84>thanx
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15:49<vassalli>sera
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15:50<vassalli>c'è qualcuno
15:50<Tekno>!it @ vassalli
15:50<Tekno>!it
15:50<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
15:50<vassalli>ok
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16:25<bsssh>valdyn better late then never: brasero does NOT support UDF burn. In fact no GUI wrapper does, except for K3b.
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16:27<valdyn>bsssh: and why is that a problem?
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16:27<valdyn>backup: ( i can burn large files just fine with brasero )
16:27<valdyn>bsssh: ^^^
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16:28<bsssh>valdyn: well,huh.. UDF is only fs for opticals that supports unicode, on-the-fly bad sector mapping and last-not-least files over 2G
16:29<Tarcas>!ext4
16:29<dpkg>well, ext4 is a filesystem that is backward compatible with <ext3>, but also adds new features such as support for volumes up to 1 exabyte (1024 petabytes) and added extent support. Support for ext4 filesystem features included in 'e2fsprogs' since 1.41~WIP-2008-06-17-1.
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16:29<bsssh>valdyn I dont have the skills, but I hope someone will include UDF support in brasero.
16:30<bsssh>valdyn would be ahuge leap ahead. Blueray is all UDF based(but not using it anyway).
16:30<Tarcas>Oh, "for opticals." Sorry I missed that
16:30<bsssh>Tarcas, np
16:30<valdyn>bsssh: dont need udf for files over 2G
16:30<bsssh>valdyn explain..
16:30<valdyn>bsssh: other than that, i know nothing about bluray
16:30<Tarcas>I was looking at everything else and thinking... isn't that common in any new FS?
16:30<valdyn>bsssh: i cant, it just works in brasero
16:31<valdyn>bsssh: all i get is a warning that mac os x cant read it, but linux and windows can
16:31<bsssh>valdyn files over 2G require UDF, since 2G is 32bit <int> limit.
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16:32<avu>only if it's a signed int :)
16:32<bsssh>valdyn 4Gb is def limit. if you use int without minus part, 4Gb are max filesize then.
16:32<valdyn>bsssh: i dont care about technical details in this case, i *know* it works
16:32<bsssh>avu exactly.
16:32<valdyn>bsssh: above 4G
16:32<bsssh>valdyn UDF is much better anyway.
16:32<valdyn>bsssh: yea, i guess
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16:32<rgb30>i was using rename 's/\.bak$//' *.bak to remove the bak suffix from all the files in a directory. i'd like to do something similar to all files in a directory, but without knowing the suffix beforehand. i'd like 'school.zip.4, work.zip.4i5, and home.zip.jso' to all have their suffixes dropped so that they all end in .zip
16:33<valdyn>bsssh: you know i burnt movies *directly* to media because of this, till i notice i actually can just write huge files
16:33<bsssh>valdyn I tell what I know. Its same as with FAT32. Same limit.
16:33<valdyn>bsssh: it must be some non-standard extension that win and lin can handle
16:34<bsssh>valdyn K3b determines if huge files present and writes UDF structure. Wodim supports UDF.
16:34<valdyn>bsssh: which tool creates the udf image?
16:34<bsssh>valdyn afaik udftools and wodim
16:34<valdyn>bsssh: wodim is just a writer
16:35-!-muammar [~muammar@190.198.114.214] has joined #debian
16:35<bsssh>valdyn also, dd + mount -t udf
16:35<valdyn>bsssh: so maybe brasero actually does support udf implicitely, i canttell
16:35-!-aigarius [~aigarius@balticom-177-132.balticom.lv] has joined #debian
16:35<bsssh>valdyn sadly it doesnt yet. I wish it would...
16:36<bsssh>valdyn good we have cheap hdds)
16:36<bsssh>valdyn ext3 comes handy here)
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16:37<valdyn>bsssh: seems like everything is there for gui udf support anyway
16:37<valdyn>bsssh: just not the gui
16:37<bsssh>valdyn yep.
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16:37<bsssh>valdyn hence was my question: if anyone knows :)
16:38<enouf>bsssh: not sure if helpful; http://www.rastersoft.com/programas/devede.html
16:38<enouf>it's in debian dmm repos
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16:38<bsssh>Question to everyone: Does ext4 support boot partition already?
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16:39<rgb30>or maybe someone could tell me what is wrong with this? rename 's#[0-9/d][0-9/d].*$#{1..12}.zip#'
16:39<valdyn>bsssh: ok, large file support is just iso9660 level 3
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16:39<rgb30>the {1..12} is not expanding to incremental numbers per file
16:39<valdyn>bsssh: which explains why brasero does it
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16:41<mallards>anyone know why the default nice value is -2 for most users
16:41<bsssh>valdyn my brasero cries.
16:41<bsssh>mallards I have 0...
16:41<tcsetattr>rgb30: the {1..12} is inside the 'quotes' so that makes it part of the perl program. the rest of that command looks pretty awful too. what are you trying to do with [0-9/d]
16:41<valdyn>bsssh: boot managers do not support extents in ext4
16:41-!-rgb30 [~rgb30@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
16:41<valdyn>bsssh: no boot manager does
16:42<valdyn>bsssh: your /boot is just fine on ext4 if you disable extents, which are pretty much useless on small files too i think
16:42<bsssh>valdyn Uh.. that kinda explains all. thanks m8 :) Must donate grub devs)
16:43<mallards>bsssh - is your machine dual core?
16:43<valdyn>bsssh: the boot system breaks with ext4 though, which means kernel option needs to be "rootfstype=ext4"
16:43<bsssh>valdyn afaik extents is supports for transparent compression of huge empty files.
16:43<bsssh>valdyn support*
16:43<valdyn>bsssh: ext4 doesnt support compression
16:43<bsssh>valdyn not yet, single core 2.2ghz athlon.
16:43<mallards>ahh
16:43-!-muammar_ [~muammar@190.198.114.214] has joined #debian
16:43<mallards>both machines im looking at have 2 cpus
16:43<valdyn>bsssh: extents just make maintaining large files easier anyway
16:43<simonrvn>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ext4
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16:44<valdyn>bsssh: huge empty files is something else, thats sparse file support
16:44<simonrvn>and sparse files aren't necessarily huge either.
16:44<bsssh>valdyn indeed. soz.
16:45<valdyn>simonrvn: true
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16:46<tcsetattr>extents could be described as a form of compression, applied to the filesystem overhead (indirect blocks) associated with big files
16:46<bsssh>does sid`s kernel ext4 have defragmenter?
16:46<valdyn>bsssh: no
16:47<simonrvn>*shrug* if not you can always go fetch it. it's like a coupla hundred line long .c file...
16:47<valdyn>bsssh: i didnt think it even has ext4
16:47<bsssh>I mean the most <unstable> realization uptime.
16:48<bsssh>valdyn I tried to use ext4 as I tried sabayon(gentoo based). It worked and more - debian-based distro could access ext4 formated partitions.
16:48<bsssh>valdyn not big pro in linux yet, 6 months.
16:49<valdyn>bsssh: ext4 is support in kernels >= 2.6.28 only, debian ships no such kernel yet afaik
16:49<bsssh>valdyn I have it in sidux :D
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16:50<bsssh>valdyn Linux GHOST 2.6.28-6.slh.1-sidux-686 #1 SMP PREEMPT Tue Feb 17 18:59:54 UTC 2009 i686 GNU/Linux
16:50<valdyn>bsssh: this is a debian channel, not a sidux channel
16:50<dmoerner>ext4 is in buildserver trunk
16:50-!-boris_ [~boris@121.214.1.13] has joined #debian
16:51<dmoerner>!trunk kernel
16:51<dpkg>Visit http://wiki.debian.org/DebianKernel for information on installing the kernel team's latest experimental kernels. Also visit #debian-kernel on irc.debian.org for more information on these kernels. See http://wiki.debian.org/HowToRebuildAnOfficialDebianKernelPackage or ask me about <kernel package>. Remember these packages are previews and work in progress. Handle with care.
16:51<dmoerner>oh cool someone expanded on my factoid
16:51-!-aigarius [~aigarius@balticom-177-132.balticom.lv] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
16:51<bsssh>valdyn I know. sidux is debian sid. Besides I need most fresh debs, and pure sid breaks. hence smxi+sidux
16:51-!-patrikf [~patrik@cnh809211548.pppoe.surfer.cnh.at] has joined #debian
16:51<valdyn>im suicidal though, i want btrfs ;)
16:52<valdyn>bsssh: ive always wondered why the more unexperienced people are the ones to need the newest stuff the most
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16:54<bsssh>valdyn dunno :P Prefer hot-ride, even if it breaks my neck,.. but better then dying from boreness. :D
16:54<bsssh>valdyn boredom*
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16:55<simonrvn>sid only breaks if you're not careful. even then, it'll break. sidux is more like testing but updated more often...
16:56<bsssh>simonrvn It can also break because of packet version missmatch etc etc. Using smxi for this. Works quite seemless so far.
16:56<bsssh>simonrvm smxi works flawless on pure sid as well.
16:57<valdyn>bsssh: what is smxi?
16:57<bsssh>simonrvm got rid of sidux graphics asap. dont like em. So in fact im on pure debian sid+sidux kernel.
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16:57<dmoerner>i don't consider "putting control of what gets held on your system in the hands of a third party that refuses to use aptitude" == "flawless"
16:57<bsssh>valdyn google on it) its a bash upgrade script and more.
16:57<simonrvn>no kidding
16:58<bsssh>dmoerner its because sid breaks often TIMES vital parts are often updated TIMES sid branch is updated almost every hour.
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16:59<valdyn>bsssh: smxi provides nothing new, just a new interface
16:59<simonrvn>...
16:59<bsssh>dmoerner smxi uses apt-get plus autoupdates itself to warn people or add patches. This is what aptitude never can do
16:59<simonrvn>yeh right
16:59<dmoerner>bsssh, dinstall runs every 6 hours, not every hour
17:00<dmoerner>it's not worth fighting over the rest of your misinformation
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17:00<bsssh>simonrvm smxi is news+patches+version missmatch detection+automatical graphic card driver integration. all at init 3.
17:00-!-pieter-online [~pieter@84-245-25-85.dsl.cambrium.nl] has joined #debian
17:00<bsssh>dmoerner im not fighting, Im sharing what I know.
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17:01<valdyn>bsssh: they put this runlevel tool into its own runlevel?
17:01<valdyn>bsssh: they put this *maintenance* tool into its own runlevel?
17:01<bsssh>valdyn init 3 is xorg off. no, normal init 3.
17:02-!-LaFarge [~LaFarge@149-178.dsl.iskon.hr] has joined #debian
17:02<simonrvn>bsssh: wrong again
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17:02<valdyn>bsssh: ok, but thats not debian, init 2-5 are all the same in debian
17:02<dmoerner>1) aptitude is far smarter than apt-get. this is a fact. 2) init 3 upgrades are not necessary. and yes sidux init 3 is different from debian init 3. 3) version mismatch detection is handled by aptitude faster than smxi's third party handlers
17:02<dmoerner>4) smxi does not apply "patches"
17:03-!-JanC [~janc@ip-81-11-176-3.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #debian
17:03<valdyn>dmoerner: are you involved with debian kernel packaging?
17:03-!-gravity [~david@dsl092-079-075.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #debian
17:04<dmoerner>valdyn, no. i maintain pekwm, tint2, and some stuff related to Scheme
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17:05<bsssh>simonrvn 1) critisizing people instead of ideas or information is impolite. 2) asking questions you know answer to make other person look bad is impolite 3) getting fun from this is ... not my way. sorry.
17:05<bsssh>simonrvm I said straight what I experienced. I never told Im the ultimate truth. Im just sharing what I know.
17:05<simonrvn>bsssh: don't lecture me
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17:06<bsssh>simonrvm right now smxi gets hold on gimp cause its not yet completely merged into sid. pure apt-get or aptitude do not.
17:06<tcsetattr>I'm getting an urge to say something controversial to take the heat off of bsssh.
17:06<simonrvn>a-plonking we will go, a-plonking we will go, hi-ho a-merry-o, a-plonking we will go
17:07<simonrvn>what heat?
17:07<dmoerner>bsssh, try aptitude safe-upgrade, and it will work. so will the second solution of aptitude full-upgrade
17:07<bsssh>tcsetattr im not heated at all :D Im just trying to keep the dialog in the way its profitable to everyone.
17:08<bsssh>dmoerner what do you mean full-upgrade? distr-upgrade?..
17:08<valdyn>bsssh: just renamed commands
17:08<bsssh>dmoerner "mean by *"
17:08<valdyn>bsssh: dist-upgrade = old name of full-upgrade
17:09<bsssh>valdyn well, it was what Im talking about.
17:09<bsssh>valdyn it merges gimp.
17:09<dmoerner>bsssh, only if you accept the first solution. and there is no reason to use full-upgrade in this case
17:10<rgb30>i'm trying to rename a directory of files with different extensions so that all the files have the same extension. this does mean removing the original extension.
17:10<rgb30>rename 's#[0-9/d][0-9/d].*$#{1..12}.jpg#'
17:10-!-sisa [~shun@v114014.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #debian
17:10<rgb30>the {1..12} is not expanding to form new sequential numeric filenames
17:10<tcsetattr>rgb30 I asked you a question about that earlier. you didn't answer
17:11<tcsetattr>it's not at all clear what you're trying to accomplish with either the [0-9/d] or the {1..12}
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17:12<dmoerner>rgb30, you need to use \..* to properly chop off the extensions
17:12-!-oren is now known as MarGarina
17:12<dmoerner>'.' is itself going to glob to any non-newline character
17:13<tcsetattr>[0-9] matches a digit. so does \d (not /d). putting them both together is just madness. if that's not what you were doing with the slash and the d then I'm lost
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17:15<bsssh>dmoerner please take a look at smxi some time, if you still have question why it exists or need information. I use synaptic in normal mode(upgrade) to get and install new software, untill I see it tries to remove packages, upgrade something big like xorg or points-out inconsequences. For this case I switch to smxi. Before this, I used apt-get dist-upgrade cause I tend to tryitout first instead of reading manual. And things started breaking
17:15<bsssh>. Now using smxi in cases I mentioned and no problems. I need sid-class freshness and gentoo is too big for me in one piece(besides, I love debian). Things show themself here, nothing personal. BTW I got rid of all sidux gfx.
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17:16<simonrvn>i think s/he wants sequentially renamed files
17:16<tcsetattr>the {1..12} is totally baffling. it looks like a shell expansion, but rename(1) takes perl code. if it was meant to expand to a list of integers, then it's not going to generate one for each file, it's going to use them all for every file.
17:17<bsssh>I wish aptitude would work in sid, but it makes journey more funny. Much more <funny> then I need.
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17:17<rgb30>sry. i was afk
17:17<rgb30>just a sed
17:17<tcsetattr>but rgb30 doesn't do anything but ignore us and repeat himself
17:17<rgb30>heh. i made that part up myself
17:18<tcsetattr>rename isn't sed. it's perl.
17:18<bsssh>rgb30 whats 5*10?
17:18<rgb30>tcsetattr: i've been using [0-9/d] to match a single numeric character
17:18<Frost>anyone got a second or two to help a linuxn00b with some python issues?
17:18<tcsetattr>well it matches 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,d,and /
17:18<bsssh>k, hes not bot)
17:19<rgb30>sry. i was making lunch
17:19<rgb30>50
17:19<bsssh>np, sorry as well :D
17:19<Frost>5^10*10-243732?
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17:19<Frost>:D
17:20-!-alman [~alman@AReims-552-1-30-210.w92-142.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian
17:20<alman>salut :), je suis où là ?
17:20-!-Ping0 [Ping0@74.197.96.73] has left #debian []
17:20<bsssh>Frost he takes time.. it means he is not automated) automated would say it straight) or he selectively ignores you) which only human can do :)
17:20<simonrvn>#debian
17:21<simonrvn>oftc
17:21<Frost>*nods*
17:21<rgb30>tcsetattr: oh, i must have read the instructions wrong
17:21<alman>et je suis le seul à parler uniquement français ?
17:21-!-goodxandros [~user@pool-72-93-9-236.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #debian
17:21<dmoerner>bsssh, i know enough about the code of smxi to have reported bugs against it. and it is an inferior solution to aptitude, which over a 1000 debian developers use to maintain sid installations
17:21<simonrvn>non, mais #debian-fr serais mieux
17:22<alman>je teste XChat, dsl
17:22-!-sisa [~shun@v114014.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has left #debian []
17:22-!-michael [~michael@c-66-41-76-190.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #debian
17:22<alman>bonne soirée :)
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17:23<rgb30>sry. are there any unanswered questions about my situation. i was afk for aminute
17:23<tcsetattr>the main unanswered question is what you really want it to do.
17:24<bsssh>dmoerner Ill try to run pure sid a.s.a. I get enought experience. Still my install broke in a week, I used distr-upgrade. May be there was me as factor, but I didnt add much...
17:24<bsssh>dmoerner thanks for sharing ideas thou.
17:24<tcsetattr>here's a demo of something that is sort of like what you said, but actually works though it's probably not exactly what you want: rename -n 's/\d+.*/(++$::count).".jpg"/e' *
17:24<dmoerner>bsssh, for the record, i had a similar experience in this channel over 6 months ago until stew convinced me to use aptitude :)
17:25<dmoerner>actually i guess it's closer to a year by now
17:25-!-NSAJEFF [~jeff@CPE0014516c0314-CM001a666b732a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #debian
17:25<bsssh>dmoerner things will show themselves with time. :)
17:25-!-NSAJEFF [~jeff@CPE0014516c0314-CM001a666b732a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit []
17:25<rgb30>i'd like to take every file in a directory, regardless of it's file extension, and make it into one singular file extension. make every file a .zip file. i was using wget to download and now i have a bunch of .zip.1 .zip.2 .zip.3 .zip.4
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17:26<bsssh>k, gnite everyone! Much thanks for your help! Debian rocks as usual
17:26<bsssh>:D
17:26<tcsetattr>how do you define "extension"? everything after the last dot? or everything after the first dot?
17:26-!-bsssh [~bsssh@xdsl-81-173-225-235.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Ухожу я от вас (xchat 2.4.5 или старше)]
17:26*Frost waves to bsssh
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17:27<rgb30>tcsetattr: everything after the first dot
17:27<tcsetattr>if you just want to move those .1 .2 .3 numbers before the .zip, that's easy enough.
17:28<rgb30>no
17:28<rgb30>rid of them completely
17:28<tcsetattr>so you're stripping off everything after the first dot, and then adding sequential numbers to avoid duplicates in the result.
17:28<Frost>rgb30 - is this something you need to do frequently or just this once?
17:29<rgb30>and all the evil they brought with them
17:29-!-JanC [~janc@ip-81-11-176-3.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:29<rgb30>frequently
17:29<Frost>rgb30 - check out rename.exe -> http://www.1-4a.com/rename/download.htm
17:29<rgb30>i'd like it to be at my disposal from now on actually
17:29<Frost>not sure, i assume theres a linux version
17:30-!-scientes [~scientes@75-165-66-252.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #debian
17:30<rgb30>no
17:30<Frost>wonderful little app that makes renaming files o so very nice and simple...
17:30<rgb30>.exe?
17:30-!-systech [~systech@modemcable019.149-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #debian
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17:30<tcsetattr>here, run this thing and see how you like it: rename -n 's/\..*/".".(++$::count).".jpg"/e' *
17:30<rgb30>bulkrenameutility was always good to me
17:30<tcsetattr>no more questions until you've tried it. The -n means "just report, don't actually do it" so it's safe
17:30<rgb30>while i was on windows
17:30<Gathond>perl has a rename program based on regular expressions I've always found great
17:31<rgb30>lol. there are no dots now
17:31-!-duraperidol [~nohost@205.207.102.195] has joined #debian
17:31<rgb30>hold on
17:32-!-duraperidol is now known as Guest53
17:33-!-Ping0 [Ping0@74.197.96.73] has joined #debian
17:33-!-goodger [~ben@host86-158-205-124.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:33*Ping0 licks the admin
17:33<Ping0>^^
17:34*Frost wonders if anyone is willing to help with an apt-get update/python issue...
17:34<rgb30>tcsetattr: ok. that command is saying that it's doing something but it doesn't actually rename the files
17:34*NSAJEFF is looking for people to take advantage of some free webhosting. Trying to test out new VPS capabilities without creating content.
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17:35-!-mallards [~mallards@cpe-72-191-9-59.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:35<tcsetattr>that's what I just said. -n is the "don't do, just report" option. you are supposed to be looking at the reported changes to decide if they're satisfactory.
17:36-!-Ping0 [Ping0@74.197.96.73] has left #debian []
17:36<rgb30>http://paste.debian.net/28931/
17:36<rgb30>um, i was 01.jpg, 02.jpg, 03.jpg
17:36<tcsetattr>well, it did what you said you wanted.
17:36<rgb30>*i was thinking
17:37<tcsetattr>Step1. strip off everything after the first dot (that makes 01.jpg into "01", 04.jpg.329 into "04", etc.)
17:37-!-nomeata_ [~jojo@port-92-200-69-123.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #debian
17:37<tcsetattr>Step2. add a sequential number from {1..12} Step3. add a common suffix (.jpg)
17:37<tcsetattr>if you don't like the result, it's your own fault for saying that's what you wanted
17:38-!-JanC [~janc@ip-81-11-176-6.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #debian
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17:39<rgb30>...
17:39-!-Lemonzest [~lemonzest@cpc2-nott4-0-0-cust50.nott.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
17:39-!-haxi [~leo@251.120.71-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:39<tcsetattr>does that mean your brain is fried completely now?
17:40<valdyn>hah
17:40<tcsetattr>I broke it down into 3 steps for you. Which step did you not agree with?
17:40<rgb30>step 2 is unnecessary
17:41<rgb30>crap i gtg
17:41<tcsetattr>then what the hell was the {1..12} all about? :)
17:41<valdyn>first time regex use
17:42<valdyn>..can do that
17:42<tcsetattr>but the RHS of s/// is not a regex. it's replacement text, a simple string (until you invoke /e like I did)
17:42-!-haxi [~leo@251.120.71-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #debian
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17:42<tcsetattr>I was so proud of that ++$::count too.
17:42<rgb30>adding the number to the filename was unnecessary
17:43-!-chahibi [~youssef@85-171-172-188.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #debian
17:43<rgb30>other than that. everything else is perfect
17:43<tcsetattr>rgb30, how about this... let's say step 1 is JUST removing the final ".num" from the filename, if it ends in .num, and leaving it alone otherwise. is that a good first step?
17:43-!-nomeata [~jojo@port-92-200-50-232.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:44-!-Astero1D [~leo@CPE00226b6bcb0a-CM001692fb21d6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #debian
17:45<Astero1D>Is there a way to setup a virtual network for 2 or more computers? I need to do this because I dont have access to Routers
17:45<valdyn>Astero1D: virtual network?
17:45<valdyn>Astero1D: linking 2 computers needs a physical network
17:45<rgb30>tcsetattr: if the file has a trailing .num then remove it. if not, leave it as a .jpg
17:46<tcsetattr>rgb30, then do this: rename -n 's/\.\d+$//' *
17:46<NSAJEFF>You mean ala crossover cable?
17:46<Astero1D>valdyn, I mean I need to be able to connect from one computer to another over internet, but have no access to routers for port forwarding
17:46<tcsetattr>2 computers linked is pretty much the definition of a physical network
17:46<NSAJEFF>Astero1D, what about an SSH tunnel?
17:46-!-knoppix_ [~knoppix@189.236.118.138] has joined #debian
17:46<valdyn>Astero1D: any debian box can do port forwarding
17:47<tcsetattr>you can go "over internet" without going through any routers? fascinating
17:47<valdyn>Astero1D: any 2 computers can be linked with a crossover cable
17:47<Astero1D>I mean something like Hamachi, if yo've heard of it
17:47-!-knoppix_ is now known as Guest59
17:47<Astero1D>valdin, Ic ant do that they are 100 miles away
17:47-!-fike [~fike@189.96.21.88] has quit [Quit: Saindo]
17:47<valdyn>Astero1D: whats your real goal?
17:47<Frost>Astero1D - look at Hamachi...
17:47-!-path [~path@pc-15-190-86-200.cm.vtr.net] has joined #debian
17:48<Guest59>hi eveerybody
17:48<Frost>It creates a lan style situation for non-local computers of the net...
17:48<Guest59>i new in linux
17:48<valdyn>Astero1D: or just use hamachi if that does what you want
17:48<Frost>BFF and I use it to play old computer games lam...
17:48<Astero1D>I have 2 computers far away frome achother, both behinf routers that I dont have access to
17:48<Frost>lan*
17:48<Guest59>and my english is bad ajajaja
17:48<Astero1D>Frost, there is Hamachi for Linux?
17:48<rgb30>tcsetattr: worked perfectly. can i have this done recursively to every file in a 3-tier directory structure?
17:48<tcsetattr>rgb30, now what's step 2?
17:48-!-edave [~edave@p54B97D48.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian
17:49<dr|z3d>Astero1D: Grab hamachi from http://hamachi.cc and google for ghamachi 0.81 for a gui front end.
17:49<Astero1D>Logmein bought hamachi...
17:49<Frost>Hamachi is currently available for Windows 2000, XP, 2003, and Vista. Console versions of Hamachi are also available for Linux and OS X.
17:49<Frost>https://secure.logmein.com/products/hamachi/download.asp
17:50<Astero1D>Is there any other software available for vpn other than hamachi?
17:50-!-Torsten_W [~torsten@erft-4db7cbfe.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Quit: so, nu isser wech]
17:50<valdyn>Astero1D: the thing is that you need a 3rd party to handshake the connection
17:50<Frost>Google is your friend Astero1D
17:50<valdyn>Astero1D: hamachi provides that service
17:50<dmoerner>exciting...libc6 2.9 is finally in sid
17:50<valdyn>Astero1D: plain vpn software cant do this
17:51<Astero1D>valdyn, I have a 3rd computer that could do the handshaking :)
17:51<valdyn>Astero1D: then you can create use any vpn software
17:51<Astero1D>valdyn, if there is such server client suite in OSS software
17:51<valdyn>Astero1D: apt-cache search vpn
17:52<Astero1D>valdyn, is there any one you'ds recommend in particular?
17:52-!-hanthana_ [~hanthana@124.43.40.60] has joined #debian
17:52<rgb30>tcsetattr: that was the only necessary step. now i just need to apply it to every folder/subfolder
17:52<valdyn>Astero1D: no, all i know are more tricky to setup than im going to assist you with
17:52<tcsetattr>rgb30, that was it? you just wanted to kill numeric suffixes? you made it sound so complicated!
17:52<tcsetattr>rgb30: rename -n 's/\.\d+$//' `find . -type f -print`
17:53<valdyn>Astero1D: openvpn is fine, but as i said, dont ask me for help with it
17:53<kingsley>Is it reasonable to assume that a scsi host adapter card has failed when 1.) the kernel stopped seeing a SCSI scanner attached to it, and 2.) a week later, the kernel stopped seeing the SCSI host adapter?
17:53<rgb30>tcsetattr: it was simple in my head. it got complicated when i tried to code it
17:53<tcsetattr>heh. that happens
17:53-!-dusty [~dusty@88-105-107-236.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #debian
17:54<valdyn>!8ball kingslay
17:54<dpkg>Unsure.
17:54-!-Guest59 [~knoppix@189.236.118.138] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
17:54<dusty>Hey guys how do i go about configuring dual monitor setup with ati card under debian lenny ?
17:54<valdyn>!8ball kingsley
17:54<dpkg>Yes.
17:54<rgb30>tcsetattr: that hangs on the next line with a '>'
17:55<tcsetattr>you didn't get the closing `
17:55<valdyn>Astero1D: ssh tunnels are very quick to set up btw
17:55-!-goodger [~ben@host86-158-205-124.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #debian
17:55<valdyn>Astero1D: so if you have very specific needs you can use that, but its not a complete virtual network
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17:56<Astero1D>valdyn, how can I use ssh if I dont have access to router and can not configure port forwarding?
17:57<valdyn>Astero1D: you ssh to the 3rd party first
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17:58<Astero1D>valdyn, say I have pcA, pcB, and pcC(3rd party) do I have to ssh from a to c and from b to c in order to connect a and b?
17:58-!-rocko [~rocko@c-67-167-117-152.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:58<valdyn>Astero1D: yes
17:59<Astero1D>I didnt know that was possible
17:59<kingsley>Astero1D: I was not aware that port forwarding is necessary for ssh.
17:59-!-hanthana [~hanthana@124.43.49.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:59<Astero1D>kingsley, how are you going to connect to ssh daemon if it's behind a router?
17:59<Astero1D>or am I missing something here/.
18:00<tcsetattr>if none of your machines can make any connections to any of the others, in what sense are they "on the Internet"?
18:00<valdyn>Astero1D: you can use that ssh tunnel thing, which has 2 issues, one is that every packet needs to pass thru c and its not a complete vpn
18:01<valdyn>Astero1D: i dont know how routing would work exactly with openvpn, probably also by moving all traffic thru the server on C
18:01<Astero1D>tcsetattr, example would be 2 home PCs that are beind routers
18:01<Astero1D>valdyn, I think so, not sure if it would be as efficient though
18:01<flokidoki>i have problem with debian lenny netinst installation. it stops after all packages downloaded and does not install them. i waited for half an hour but no change on progressbar. why?
18:01<valdyn>Astero1D: hamachi or skype use the server c only to initiate the connection
18:02<valdyn>Astero1D: well, probably also to restore it at times, because masquarading routers are stupid pos
18:02<flokidoki>i tried to install for three times
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18:03<Astero1D>valdyn, interesting, then the computers are on their own ha>
18:03<valdyn>Astero1D: im not really familiar with vpn stuff so i dont know if theres something that does what skype or hamachi servers do
18:03<Astero1D>without forwarding or anything
18:03<Astero1D>valdyn, it would be veeery inneficient to pass all those connectiond ata through skype servers but I dont see it happen otherwise
18:04-!-djc is now known as Guest61
18:04-!-djc [~djc@65.209.147.160] has joined #debian
18:04<valdyn>Astero1D: i just said that traffic does not pass thru skype servers
18:04<valdyn>Astero1D: they only initiate the connection
18:04<Astero1D>right
18:04-!-luke3321 [~luke@66-215-22-188.dhcp.gldl.ca.charter.com] has left #debian [Leaving]
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18:05<valdyn>Astero1D: google tells me, tinc might be what you want
18:05<chealer>flokidoki: how do you know that all packages downloaded?
18:05<flokidoki>chealer: by progressbar
18:05<flokidoki>and notifications
18:06<flokidoki>it downloaded 809 packages
18:06<flokidoki>809 of 809 :)
18:06-!-sepski [~sep@raserv.aasen.cx] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:06<Internat>skype is special.. it doesnt have to go via the servers.. They actually have it set up, so that other skype client users can relay it for you.
18:06<Astero1D>valdyn, thanks
18:07-!-olri [~olri@elisout.isms.hs-bremen.de] has joined #debian
18:07<valdyn>Astero1D: or not, but look at http://wippien.com/
18:07<valdyn>Astero1D: hah, also win only
18:07<valdyn>Astero1D: ok, nada
18:07<hazard2>does anyone know if filesystem ACLs are supposed to be transparent though bind mounted directories (or not?)
18:07<Astero1D>tinc is gnu and linux
18:07<Astero1D>I';ll read up
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18:08<hazard2>My testing seems to indicate they aren't (at least though sftp), becuase sftp seems to be looking at the real permissions on the mountpoint to determine if a user can access the folder, though the bind (and ignoring the ACLs on the bind's parent directory)
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18:11<guilherme>is it possible to install a kde-desktop using the businesscard iso image?
18:11<hazard2>guilherme, yes, it can be tricky to track down all the dependencies though
18:11<hazard2>(to make it work right)
18:11<hazard2>And you'll have to download _ALOT_
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18:12<guilherme>oh, so it's impossible right from the cd? what about the netinstall
18:12-!-rayne_ [~rayne@ip68-111-210-186.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #debian
18:12<flokidoki>any solution or another easy method to make the same installation?
18:12<chealer>flokidoki: did you already install Debian successfully on that machine? What is written on the screen?
18:13<guilherme>if I use task=kde-desktop will it install a kde-desktop working correctly?
18:14<hazard2>Oh, yea forgot completely about that, yea that'll work too
18:14<flokidoki>chealer: this was my first debian inst. with gnome desktop and laptop packages on my laptop but i cant managed to do it.
18:14<hazard2>Bt, you'll still have to download everything that wasn't on the CD (which is...almost everything)
18:14-!-shweppsie [~shweppsie@ip-118-90-136-146.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:14<flokidoki>809 of 809 packages downloade or something was written under progress bar
18:15-!-shweppsie [~shweppsie@ip-118-90-136-146.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #debian
18:15<flokidoki>but did not install them
18:15<hazard2>anyone have any experience with acls, sftp choots and mount binds?
18:15-!-streuner [foobar@p5DD3A197.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian
18:15<chealer>flokidoki: do you have another PC that you can use to get on IRC while your target PC is running debian-installer?
18:17-!-kd394817175 [~nohost@205.207.102.195] has joined #debian
18:17<flokidoki>no, i installed another distro to my laptop. now i 'm writing on this.
18:17<flokidoki>but i want to use debian
18:18<flokidoki>what can cause this problem
18:18-!-rayne_ [~rayne@ip68-111-210-186.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:19<flokidoki>i think it happened only on my machine :) there is no report about this on net.
18:19-!-MrNaz [~mrnaz@ppp118-208-164-14.lns10.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:20-!-guilherme is now known as dsq
18:20<dsq>so what's the best way to install kde right from the debian installation cd?
18:20<dsq>a complete installation
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18:24<chealer>dsq: it *it* possible
18:25<chealer>dsq: you select KDE at the start, then you follow the installer as normal
18:25<chealer>flokidoki: did you look at the syslog?
18:25<dsq>using the netinstall cd?
18:26-!-hey [~n@cm-84.209.148.231.getinternet.no] has joined #debian
18:26<chealer>dsq: using whatever install media suits you
18:26-!-a0x [~a0x@134sosua100.codetel.net.do] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:26<dsq>but I was using businesscard and I wasn't asked to choose between kde or gnome
18:27<flokidoki>chealer: is there a way to checking the system log during main installation progress?
18:27-!-Swissgent [~upvr@84-74-95-164.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:27<chealer>flokidoki: yes, it's shown in tty4
18:28<chealer>dsq: right. you have to know that it needs to be selected at the start. the DE choice is not yet properly integrated in d-i
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18:29<dsq>ah. and is it integrated in 5.0.0-businesscard?
18:29-!-jscinoz [~jscinoz@124-171-42-99.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #debian
18:30<chealer>dsq: KDE is not integrated in that, no
18:31<dsq>and 5.0.0-netinst?
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18:31<Astero1D>I just got a message from system saying my kernel has a failure
18:31<Astero1D>what's this all about?
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18:32<debianforlife>dsq, all that is in netinstall is the base system, kernel and apt
18:32<debianforlife>you can install KDE from the net though
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18:33<dsq>yeah, but still while I'm installing debian from the cd right?
18:33<flokidoki>chealer: i dont know what tty4 is. can you explain how to look syslog during installation?
18:34<dsq>and how do I order it to download KDE rather than gnome
18:34-!-goodger [~ben@host86-158-205-124.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #debian
18:34<debianforlife>dsq, there is a boot option that makes it use KDE not gnome. the installer has tasksel so you just select desktop environment
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18:36<gihad>Hey, how can I install kernel 2.6.28 in squeeze ?
18:36<gihad>Is there an easy automatic way to do this ?
18:37<debianforlife>you could compile it yourself, or I'm pretty sure sid has 28
18:37<gihad>debianforlife: is sid the unstable version ?
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18:38<debianforlife>yeah
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18:42<gihad>sid uses 2.6.26
18:42<flokidoki>can i install debian lenny from live cd?
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18:43<debianforlife>gihad, then you'll have to compile it
18:43<debianforlife>it really isn't that hard
18:44<gihad>I can't believe there isn't another way
18:44<gihad>simple way
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18:45<debianforlife>compiling a kernel is pretty simple
18:45<kingsley>How might one diagnose why a SCSI host adapter no longer sees a certain SCSI device?
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18:47<themill>dpkg: tell gihad about trunk kernel
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19:11<chealer>flokidoki: press Alt+F4
19:11<chealer>flokidoki: then Alt+F1 if you want to go back
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19:12<chealer>flokidoki: you can't install from live CD without important efforts
19:13<flokidoki>chealer: i dowloaded debian lenny dvd-1. is it enough for the same installation.
19:13-!-kingsley [~kingsley@74.220.244.212] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:13<flokidoki>that includes gnoem desktop, laptop packages
19:13<flokidoki>gnome*
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19:14<leadership>on.net
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19:19<debianforlife>I have to use the 173.14.12 driver for my nvidia card, but when I compile a kernel above 2.6.26 I can't install the driver... I really want to use 2.6.28. Is there any way I can get around the driver not wanting to install on a new kernel?
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19:22<simonrvn>flokidoki: 3 floppies are enough for installation. it's more than enough.
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19:25<flokidoki>simonrvn: so first dvd includes all packages that is needed for gnome desktop and drivers and etc. without downloading from net. what if installation asks me for the second, third dvd.
19:25-!-iwamatsu [~iwamatsu@w142187.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #debian
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19:26<unique>#ubuntu-ru
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19:26<chealer>flokidoki: yes
19:27<unique>hello
19:27<unique>everyoune speak to rus?
19:27-!-unique [~unique@truthless.experience.volia.net] has quit []
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19:27<chealer>debianforlife: which chipset do you use?
19:27<unique>me?:)
19:27<chealer>!tell unique about ru
19:28<unique>!tell
19:28<unique>what?
19:28<chealer>!ru
19:28<dpkg>Russian speakers, please use (Pogalujsta, zajdite na) (Pazhaluista, zahodite na) #debian-russian @ irc.freenode.net
19:28<unique>how i can connect? I not good know linux =)
19:28<unique>and i need help ...
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19:31<unique>!ru
19:31<dpkg>Russian speakers, please use (Pogalujsta, zajdite na) (Pazhaluista, zahodite na) #debian-russian @ irc.freenode.net
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19:32<unique>!tell unique about ru
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19:33<unique>okay thx
19:33<unique>i see new chanel =)
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19:46<cisco>/dune.irc-hispano.org
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19:54<jcole>how do i turn on a usb port in kernel 2.6.27?
19:55<jcole>i need the power on to charge my phone
19:55<jcole>i think when my laptop is docked, the usb ports are always on
19:55<jcole>but, when on battery, it shuts off the ports
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20:10<NSAJEFF>How can I enter a secure site(known username/password prompt) and download the pdfs in a directory using wget?
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20:16<NSAJEFF>How can I enter a secure site(known username/password prompt) and download the pdfs in a directory using wget?
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20:17<avu>NSAJEFF, does the site use HTTP auth?
20:17<NSAJEFF>avu, yes
20:17<dmoerner>NSAJEFF, use --http-user and --http-password
20:17<NSAJEFF>Thanks
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20:20<NSAJEFF>Asteroi1D, you from Ontario?
20:20<Asteroid1D>I get error "you need to have glib installed" while trying to run naughtysvn install script, where do I get glib?
20:20<Asteroid1D>NSAJEFF, yes
20:20<NSAJEFF>Asteroi1D, interesting. Ottawa here.
20:20<Asteroid1D>NSAJEFF, cook
20:20<Asteroid1D>cool*
20:22<chealer>Asteroid1D: from your favorite Debian mirror
20:22<Asteroid1D>chealer, the apt-get will not find it
20:23<dmoerner>Asteroid1D, you probably want libglib2.0-0...
20:24<Asteroid1D>dmoerner, that must be it, thanks mate
20:25<Asteroid1D>dmoerner, looks like I already ahd it, but the script stil gives me the error
20:25<dmoerner>you might need the dev libraries installed
20:25<dmoerner>i don't know what script you are trying to use
20:26<Asteroid1D>dmoerner, naughtysvn installer
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20:27<Asteroid1D>yep, the dev package fixd the problem
20:27<Asteroid1D>dmoerner, thanks
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20:31<debacle>hi all, i've a notebook (it a pentium3 700Mhz) and i'm running lenny. i have no desktop but onlyy commandline. is there a way to tell my os that screen resolution is 1024x768 and not 640x480 ?
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20:32<debianforlife>debacle, add vga=791 to the kernil line in grub
20:32<Tarcas>yes.
20:32<adb>add vga=791 at
20:33<debacle>ok. just a sec !!
20:33<debacle>so do i have to edit wich file please ?
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20:33<ml>menu.lst
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20:34<debacle>ok thanks ... i'm doing just now ...
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20:35<Asteroid1D>how do I install subversion headers?
20:35<Asteroid1D>./configure is asking for them
20:36<Asteroid1D>I have trouble finding relevant packages, is there a way I can do it other than apt-cache search?
20:36<adb> apt-file search package
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20:38<eria>#nerds
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20:39<debacle>debianforlife, adb, Taracas, ml: Thank you a million ! it works very good !!!
20:39<adb>debacle: welcome
20:39<goodger>¬.¬
20:40<debianforlife>you'r welcome
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20:42<debacle>thanks again to all. I'm leaving !
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20:50<kados>So I have this Cricket broadband card. The device ID shows up as : 0c88:17da and the model is KPC650. I looked it up and it says that it should supported by the airprime module... but I dont know the steps to take to get this module working with my card. Any suggestions or links that might help me?
20:51<kados>Debian kicks ass on my laptop.. but Im having a hell of a time with this card.. its my last and most difficult hurdle
20:54<asteroid>would a good night of sleep and morning thee / coffee provide the right kind of molecules?
20:55<chealer>kados: what do you mean? it's already supported, but you want to get it to work?
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20:59<kados>Well it should be supported by that module... but I cannot get to recognize in the network manager... I dont know if I need to start the module... or how to start the module.
21:00<kados>.msg chealer Airprime is the module that works with it... but it does not work out of box
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21:00<kados>So I know I need to configure it or something... but I dont know what steps need to be taken to get it to work.
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21:01<chealer>kados: an LKM just needs to be loaded
21:01<chealer>is it loaded?
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21:05<chealer>kados: do not send private messages to helpers without asking for permission
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21:06<chealer>kados: if lsmod shows your module, that's because the module is loaded, so it's "started"
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21:08<kados>chealer : how would I get the modules to work with this card then... because it is not something I can control the the network manager. In fedora I can out of box... but Debian I can't and I would rather use Debian.
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21:10<chealer>kados: as far as I can see, there's nothing that indicates that the module does not work already.
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21:14<kados>chealer : so how do I get the network manager to allow me to configure my connection with the card? Is there a config file I can tweak to get the network manager to notice the card? how do I determine which /dev/ the card is under?
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21:14<chealer>kados: which network manager?
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21:16<kados>gnome network manager : nm-applet 0.6.6
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21:19-!-mode/#debian [+l 397] by debhelper
21:19<chealer>kados: did you read network-manager's documentation? usually NIC-s don't have a file in /dev/. if that one has, I don't know.
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21:22<debianforlife>network-manager is evil... if you must use wicd. it works a lot better
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21:27<kados>debianforlife : is this in the debian repo? Or do I need to download the .deb/
21:27<kados>?
21:27<debianforlife>you need to add the wicd repo
21:27-!-goodger [~ben@host86-158-205-124.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #debian
21:28<debianforlife>http://wicd.sourceforge.net/download.php
21:28<debianforlife>pretty easy
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21:29<kados>cool.... let me try this and see if it helps.
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21:29<debianforlife>you probably want to remove network-manager
21:29<debianforlife>wicd is based on wireless-tools
21:30<adb>wicd - wired and wireless network manager, nothing to add , is in lenny
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21:30<debianforlife>are you sure?
21:30<hmn>adb, are you sure? i'm using lenny and i don't find it with aptitude
21:31<penpen>wicd uses a 3rd party repo
21:31<penpen>but i use it on my laptop
21:31<hmn>i read on the link above that it's in sid though
21:31<debianforlife>it is in sid, not lenny
21:31<penpen>ah
21:31<debianforlife>i just searched packages.debian.org
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21:34<NullZero>Hi, anyone care to help someone new to Debian? :)
21:35<hmn>NullZero, sure, if we can
21:35<hmn>(i'm sure someone will be able, just not necessarily me :)
21:35<NullZero>I'm trying to install Lenny using a network install and it seems to be stalling. I'm assuming its because its a new release the servers are bogged down.
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21:36<penpen>NullZero: try a different mirror
21:36<penpen>NullZero: I almost always have that issue when installing with ftp.debian.org and ftp.us.debian.org
21:36<NullZero>ah ok
21:36<NullZero>i figured :)
21:36-!-kados [~kados@216.148.97.254] has joined #debian
21:36<hmn>penpen, i used to have that problem too
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21:37<NullZero>funny thing is i'm trying to get it installed on my Eee PC. I've been attempting this all weekend
21:37<hmn>NullZero, i find kernel.org is usually pretty fast
21:37<NullZero>thanks, will try that
21:37<hmn>yw
21:38<penpen>i use ftp.gtlib.gatech.edu..but yeah, as those things go everyones mileage varies depending on their location
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21:38<kados>debianforlife : I install Wicd... no go. I dont even know if the device is on /dev/ttyUSB0 or something totally different... is there a way I can find out? And is there a config file for Wicd?
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21:39<NullZero>if i get this running on my Eee PC, i will forever use a Debian based OS
21:39<krisfremen>hello there, is there a way to change the color depth when using x11 forwarding??
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21:40<hmn>NullZero, you may have already used one without knowing :)
21:40<NullZero>besides Ubuntu :-p
21:40<hmn>heh
21:40<hmn>also Knoppix
21:40<NullZero>oh Xandros? lol
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21:40<NullZero>well, its Asus's butchered version of Xandros, doesn't count lol
21:41-!-g0nad [~jamesc@ip-118-90-52-67.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #debian
21:41<NullZero>actually Asus contacted Debian on working on a OS for the Eee line
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21:42<krisfremen>anyone?
21:42<hmn>krisfremen, wish i could help, but i don't know X well enough :(
21:43<g0nad>I've got a machine with 5 SATA discs in it and 'sda' has errors. How do I identify which physical disc that is?
21:43<penpen>g0nad: generally it will be the first physical disk
21:44-!-max [~max@dslb-088-073-146-007.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:44<penpen>g0nad: but you can use this command as root: "hdparm -i /dev/sda" to try to see the serialnumber of the drive, then just match it to reality. be careful when using hdparm because it can mess up your drives for real if you use it incorrectly
21:45<tcsetattr>krisfremen, what does forwarding have to do with color depth?
21:45<NSAJEFF>penpen, thanks. I wasn't familiar with hdparm...cool stuff
21:46<g0nad>penpen: thanks. We actually found that disc to be the 4th drive. We got real cowboy on it and unplugged the discs until we found it be a process of elimination
21:46<krisfremen>i was wondering how to set the color depth to something lower, because i don't need true color, just basic black and white would suffice
21:46<penpen>NSAJEFF: np. you can use it to set other weird hardware settings (like udma etc on ide drives), but the -i flag is purely informational
21:47<NSAJEFF>penpen, what sort of weird settings?
21:47<penpen>lol im not sure, id have to reference the manpages
21:47<NSAJEFF>penpen, no need. Thanks :) I'll dig around
21:47<penpen>np
21:47-!-lifedog [~lifedog@221.219.170.211] has joined #debian
21:47<penpen>i've just been told to be careful when using it, so i make sure to tell others the same :)
21:48<kados>debianforlife : any more thoughts on the issue?
21:48<NSAJEFF>I just checked...some scary commands in there. I see the potential for harm now....
21:48<debianforlife>kados, sorry for taking long to respond. Have you followed the directions on the site? then you can run wicd-client as a regular user for the interface
21:48<penpen>yeah
21:48<g0nad>and you've got hdparm.conf for setting hdparm options on boot too
21:48<hmn>NSAJEFF, your nick has me wondering if you work for the NSA. (not that that would be bad... paranoid? who, me?)
21:49<NSAJEFF>hmn, makes you wonder, don't it?
21:50<tcsetattr>krisfremen, you can enable different depths in xorg.conf, and select one by adding -depth to the X server command line. I don't see the point though
21:50-!-NCommander [~mcasadeva@cpe-74-73-175-90.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
21:50<hmn>yes, it does... but maybe you don't, i heard from someone who said he did work for them that they have to admit it if directly asked
21:51<NullZero>kados, compared to fedora, debian installer is easier to comprehend
21:51<NSAJEFF>Just like a cop having to tell you he's a cop if you ask during a drug deal?
21:51<krisfremen>tcsetattr, it's on a remote server, and i would like to use my bandwidth for something else, because atm, x11 is using all of the bandwidth
21:51<krisfremen>i mean while forwarding it here
21:51<NSAJEFF>hmn, I'll tell you a secret; that's not true.
21:52<hmn>NSAJEFF, well anyway... it's off-topic anyhow
21:52<NSAJEFF>hmn, that's why I'm sitting in #debian-offtopic :)
21:52<tcsetattr>oh well the wire format for X11 colors is 48-bpp no matter what.
21:52<krisfremen>dang...
21:52<tcsetattr>the packets won't be smaller, they'll just have more 0's in them
21:53<kados>Nullzero : Totally agree man... I just wish my damn network card wasn't giving me this kind of trouble. Fedora runs too slow on my laptop... debain just runs better in my opinion.
21:53<kados>yum blows....
21:53<NullZero>using fedora just for an hour was enough for me to decide yum/rpm is not for me
21:54<NullZero>the concept just doesn't make sense
21:54<tcsetattr>on the other hand, krisfremen, if you're tunneling through ssh, you could enable compression of the ssh connection with -C and that might help.
21:54<krisfremen>i'm already using compressions
21:55<tcsetattr>time to go to the dark side... VNC :)
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21:56<NullZero>just curious, is anyone in here LPI certified?
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21:57<krisfremen>ok where does vnc store it's config? it drops me into twm when i login... and i don't like that wm
21:59<krisfremen>or how else can i change the starting wm?
21:59<krisfremen>okies found it
21:59<tcsetattr>took that dark side suggestion too easily
22:00<krisfremen>they have cookies on the dark side XD
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22:04<krisfremen>if i can just find how to change resolution in vnc, would be awesome :)
22:05<krisfremen>thanks for all the help and suggestions :)
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22:06<elzo_brito>boa noite
22:06<elzo_brito>a todos
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22:10<lifedog>is there the software that it could litsen and download the music online?
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22:11<NullZero>can I omit the standard package, but keep the desktop package with a Debian install to keep it minimal?
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22:12<penpen>NullZero: you can select no tasks and make it even more minimal :P
22:12<penpen>NullZero: and just install packages as you need them...that's what i do
22:13<NullZero>will i get a command prompt after installation?
22:13<simonrvn>easier that way, and less time spent downloading and installing
22:13<adb>lifedog: tunapie
22:13<simonrvn>of course
22:13<penpen>aye..until you install xorg
22:13<penpen>and your dm of choice
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22:14<NullZero>ok thanks!
22:14<penpen>well, and dont forget to install xfce/gnome/whatever
22:14<NullZero>so first install xorg then the desktop environment?
22:14<penpen>yeah
22:14<NullZero>cool thanks
22:15<penpen>and without slim/xdm/gdm you'll have to log in at the command prompt and type startx to start x
22:15<krisfremen>anyone uses ratpoison here?
22:15<penpen>but i like it that way
22:16<tcsetattr>I use ratpoison sometimes
22:16<NullZero>will i get a network connection automatically?
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22:17<penpen>NullZero: depends on your hardware..but if you're using ethernet instead of wireless thats probably safe to assume
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22:19<krisfremen>one more thing, i get some weird resolution, 1920x1080 i think? how do i change this? i can't seem to find any config file containing anything related to resolution
22:19<NullZero>just to play it safe, i selected Standard and Laptop packages
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22:20<penpen>krisfremen: xorg.conf?
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22:20<krisfremen>doesn't contain anything, and when i do put it, it doesn't change
22:20<NullZero>should I go with LXDE or Xfce?
22:21<krisfremen>this is through x11 forwarding btw...
22:21<adb>Section "Screen", SubSection "Display", Modes "1024x768"
22:21<penpen>krisfremen: oh i see..im not familiar, sorry
22:21<adb>krisfremen: ^^^
22:22<penpen>NullZero: i've never tried lxde, but ive heard good things. i like xfce though. just try em out, you can always install something different
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22:22<krisfremen>i did put that, but when accessing through vnc it's not changing...
22:22<NullZero>I like xfce myself, but read that lxde is more leaner for the eee pc
22:22<g0nad>if you want a really lightweight window manager I'd recommend windowmaker
22:23<penpen>fluxbox is nice for lightweight too
22:23<g0nad>but be warned window maker isn't the prettiest
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22:23<krisfremen>ahh ok, solved the problem
22:24-!-dr|zed [~dr|z3d@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
22:24<NullZero>i think DSL takes the cake as be not pretty lol
22:24<NullZero>*being
22:24<g0nad>i've been using it for about 5 years, but I do keep a gnome session around so that I can do the more "windows" like tasks there
22:24<krisfremen>i need to think sometimes before i ask all those questions xD
22:24<adb>ah, --geometry 1024-768
22:24-!-g0nad [~jamesc@ip-118-90-52-67.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:25<gsimmons>kados: You're still attempting to use the KPC650? This is a CDMA device. Why are using wicd with it?
22:25<NullZero>the eee pc has given me problems from the beginning because trying to get a distro that runs on it and runs it well has been a chore
22:26-!-zhujiale [~Zhujiale@123.121.198.23] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:26<NullZero>so trying to use anything that is supposedly hardware friendly as ended in disappointment
22:26<NullZero>*has
22:26-!-NCommander [~mcasadeva@cpe-74-73-175-90.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
22:26<penpen>NullZero: my brother uses that version of ubuntu designed for the eeepc, but i dont see any reason why someone shouldnt be able to use debian on one
22:27-!-kados [~kados@216.148.97.254] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:27<NullZero>my main issue is i did not want to use a custom distro because chances are it'll never be maintained
22:28<NullZero>fedora let me down because they docs say it runs on the Eee PC, but its so bloated and slow
22:28<NullZero>*their
22:28<penpen>NullZero: have you tried this link? http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEeePC/HowTo/Install
22:28<NullZero>thats what i'm using for my install as we speak :)
22:28-!-cheal [~chealer@69.171.136.241] has joined #debian
22:28<penpen>oh i see :)
22:29<NullZero>compared to fedora, the install process for Debian has been a breeze
22:29<brian|lfs>note to self if you compile a kernel don't use the debian config next time
22:29-!-dr|z3d [~dr|z3d@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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22:29<penpen>brian|lfs: ive used the debian config, but i always modify it after loading it as a template
22:30<brian|lfs>thats what I did just didn't go through it and disable all the thigns I don't have for hardware lol
22:30<brian|lfs>I was being alzy
22:30<brian|lfs>lazy
22:30<penpen>lol
22:30<brian|lfs>I just enabled ext4 and picked my processor
22:31-!-max_ [~max@dslb-088-073-049-248.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:31<krisfremen>thanks everybody! really helped me :)
22:32-!-chealer [~chealer@69.171.133.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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22:36<NullZero>this install process is like freakin' cool :)
22:39-!-mode/#debian [+l 391] by debhelper
22:39<simonrvn>i like it
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22:40-!-JanC [~janc@ip-81-11-169-201.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:42<NullZero>next month i'm planning on studying for my lpi cert so i'm hoping it'll turn me into a linux pro
22:42-!-geenna [~geenna@host-78-14-19-206.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via]
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22:44<adb>lpi ?
22:44-!-eria_ [~eria@99.23.162.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:44<NullZero>linux professional institute
22:45-!-streuner_ [foobar@p5DD39C5C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian
22:45<adb>what a shit !
22:45-!-Gun_Smoke [~G@c-76-101-129-233.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #debian
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22:47<knoppix_>test
22:47-!-knoppix_ [~knoppix@pD9E451F5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
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22:47-!-knoppix_ is now known as Guest99
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22:51<lifedog>when boot, i wanna kernel to load snd-pcm-oss, which file could i add the module name?
22:52-!-streuner [foobar@p5DD3A197.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:52<gsimmons>lifedog: man modules
22:52-!-NCommander [~mcasadeva@cpe-66-65-150-156.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
22:54<lifedog>only add the module name or add "modprobe module name"?
22:54<NullZero>HELP! lol
22:54-!-JanC [~janc@ip-81-11-172-5.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #debian
22:54<NullZero>i can't get a network connection in terminal mode
22:54<NullZero>do i have to load anything?
22:56-!-justaguy [~justaguy@206-248-160-216.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:57-!-fyrfaktry [~fyrfaktry@adsl-070-145-120-039.sip.pns.bellsouth.net] has joined #debian
22:57<kop>NullZero : How are you getting into "terminal mode"?
22:58<NullZero>i did a minimal install over the network, completed install and now i'm at the command prompt
22:58-!-ajay [~aja@203.129.255.188] has joined #debian
22:58<NullZero>forgive me if i use the wrong terms :-/
22:58<tcsetattr>and how did you test the network connection?
22:58<NullZero>well, the install over the network was a breeze
22:59<tcsetattr>that wasn't an answer...
22:59-!-fyrfaktry [~fyrfaktry@adsl-070-145-120-039.sip.pns.bellsouth.net] has quit []
22:59<tcsetattr>how do you know it's not working?
22:59<NullZero>i'm trying to install packages over the network and its saying failure to resolve
22:59<NullZero>and i'm not getting any activity on my router
22:59-!-goodger [~ben@host86-158-205-124.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:00<tcsetattr>oh, resolver problem? take a look at /etc/resolv.conf
23:00-!-goodger [~ben@host86-158-205-124.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #debian
23:00<kop>NullZero: What does "ping -n 69.147.76.15" say (hold down ctrl and press c key to exit.)
23:01-!-greeq [jake@115.108.11.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:01<kop>tcsetattr : You'll get resolver errors if there is no network.
23:01<NullZero>network unreacable
23:01-!-omer [~omer@abo-142-77-68.mrs.modulonet.fr] has joined #debian
23:01-!-YA7830Z [~YA7830Z@79.133.86.249] has joined #debian
23:02<tcsetattr>ok, not a resolver problem. how about "ifconfig -a"
23:02<kop>NullZero : How about "/sbin/ifconfig -a"
23:02-!-nely [~nely_@186.2.42.141] has joined #debian
23:02<kop>tcsetattr : (that way he does not have to be root)
23:03-!-HarryMcTwo [~matt@74-46-168-103.dr02.blfd.wv.frontiernet.net] has joined #debian
23:03<kop>NullZero : You should see an "eth0".
23:03-!-nely [~nely_@186.2.42.141] has quit []
23:04<NullZero>yup
23:04-!-Hideo [~irc@c-24-126-201-121.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #debian
23:04-!-greeq [jake@115.108.11.208] has joined #debian
23:04<kop>NullZero : Does it have an "inet addr" ip address assigned?
23:04-!-YA7830Z [~YA7830Z@79.133.86.249] has left #debian []
23:04<NullZero>no, just the mac addy
23:05<tcsetattr>"inet addr" would be directly below the "Link encap" on the first line
23:05<tcsetattr>what happens if you run "ifup eth0"
23:05<NullZero>only getting it on my router with the loopback
23:05<ajay>hi to all.i am getting error while installing kernel-image from lenny short read in buffer_copy (backend dpkg-deb during `./lib/modules/2.6.26-1-486/kernel/drivers/scsi/aic7xxx/aic7xxx.ko')
23:05<NullZero>unknown interface
23:06<tcsetattr>you need to configure it in /etc/network/interfaces then
23:06<NullZero>k thanks
23:06<kop>tcsetattr : So, what's the package that you dpkg-reconfigure that talks you through the /etc/network/interfaces stuff?
23:06<tcsetattr>I don't know that there is one
23:06<NullZero>google is my friend :)
23:06<kop>NullZero : "man interfaces" is your friend.
23:07<NullZero>this is not going to discourage me because i was able to install fedora and it was crap lol
23:07<tcsetattr>another friend: printf "auto eth0\niface eth0 inet dhcp\n" >> /etc/network/interfaces
23:08<kop>tcsetattr : Long ago you used to be able to dpkg-reconfigure debian-base (or some such). But that went away. You'd think there'd be something....
23:08<penpen>in knoppix there's a tool called netcardconfig
23:08<NullZero>i should have installed all my packages when i had a connection like a noob lol
23:09-!-greg_s50 [~greg_s50_@daupheus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:09<kop>penpen : That would probably need to be installed (using the network. :)
23:09-!-Idisjunction [~idisjunct@c-71-60-146-249.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Alas! I must take my leave of thee.]
23:09<kop>NullZero : Nah. But you should have configured the network interface during the install.... I wonder what happned?
23:09<penpen>kop: yeah, i know lol. i was just trying to point out that such programs exist..but i dont think one exists for debian at this point
23:10-!-HarryMcScary [~matt@74-44-182-129.dr02.blfd.wv.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:10<NullZero>i installed it over my wifi doh!
23:10-!-jovin [~jovin@pool-71-190-92-119.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #debian
23:10<NullZero>can i get a wifi connection then?
23:11<kop>NullZero : Is that working? (It does not really matter, you'll want a wired connection anyhow.)
23:11<NullZero>i can figure it out if i had a desktop to work on lol
23:11<kop>NullZero : If it was working, you'd be able to ping.
23:12<NullZero>would it have saved my settings like wpa ssid, etc?
23:12<kop>NullZero : Did you type what tcsetattr told you to? Then do "ifup eth0"
23:12-!-sysop [~sysop@CPE001839c4bdc9-CM000a739a3f1b.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #debian
23:12<kop>NullZero : Dunno.
23:12-!-djc is now known as Guest105
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23:12<NullZero>yes, it says interface unknown
23:13<ajay>hi to all.i am getting error while installing kernel-image from lenny short read in buffer_copy (backend dpkg-deb during `./lib/modules/2.6.26-1-486/kernel/drivers/scsi/aic7xxx/aic7xxx.ko'
23:13<kop>NullZero : You didn't type the printf line.
23:13<tcsetattr>how about you show us exactly what's in your /etc/network/interfaces
23:13<sysop>whats the smallest / fastest window manager? I'm running a p3 550 w/ 128mb ram, its used mainly as a video capture device (surveilance cams) but I would like a gui to view the video captured
23:13<ajay>i have downloaded and then used dpkg -i
23:13<tcsetattr>ajay, sounds like a corrupted .deb file, try deleting it and download again
23:14<penpen>sysop: ratpoison is pretty small
23:14<kop>ajay : You might try "aptitude update" again, and then aptitude install the package. _Maybe_ you didn't download the whole package.
23:14-!-NewShinyCD [~hahaah@c-67-166-201-162.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #debian
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23:14<ajay>tcsetattr, yes now trying with apt-get.
23:14<kop>sysop : That's what I was going to say, but check out http://www.xwinman.org/ for comparisions.
23:14<sysop>penpen; ty, is that availible via apt-get?
23:14<NullZero>kop, where to I type the printf line?
23:15<kop>NullZero : On the command line, while being root.
23:15<penpen>sysop: should be
23:15<ajay>kop, tcsetattr :lenny is realesed is there ant server release also?
23:15<penpen>ratpoison - keyboard-only window manager
23:15<kop>ajay : It's all the same release. It just depends on what you install.
23:16-!-goodger [~ben@host86-158-205-124.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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23:16<sysop>thats cool, it's only for me so I can play around with it
23:16-!-greg_s50 [~greg_s50_@85-171-27-88.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #debian
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23:16<NullZero>is there a way to autoprob the devices at this point?
23:17<ajay>kop, tcsetattr thanks it got installed with apt-get
23:17<kop>sysop : Are you using zoneminder?
23:17<sysop>kop; not sure yet but it does have alot of good reviews
23:17<kop>NullZero : The kernel did that at boot.
23:18<kop>sysop : It looked way cool years ago.
23:18<sysop>kop; you recommend it ?
23:18<kop>sysop : I've not used it, just had plans.
23:18<sysop>i think its still active
23:18<sysop>theres quite a few out now
23:18<tcsetattr>NullZero, you're taking forever to add a couple of lines to a config file. at this rate you won't get anywhere
23:18<kop>sysop : Have you see the ephiphial (spelling?) cameras?
23:19<NullZero>lol i'm learning i'm learning
23:19<sysop>kop; spelling?
23:19-!-complexity [~complexit@ip98-185-158-201.lf.br.cox.net] has joined #debian
23:19<sysop>never heard of em
23:19<lifedog>is there a such software which could listen and download the music online?
23:19-!-jovin [~jovin@pool-71-190-92-119.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:19<kop>sysop : Hang on.
23:19-!-Guest105 [~djc@65.209.147.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:20<sysop>k
23:20<sysop>penpen; how do you run ratpoison? the command says it cant find a display
23:21<kop>sysop : http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT4187053130.html
23:21<ajay>kop;but kernel should be different for server and desktop
23:21<lifedog> is there a such software which could listen and download the music online,no ideas?
23:21<kop>sysop : You probably need to install xserver-xorg
23:21<adb>[ 04:12:37 ] <adb> lifedog: tunapie
23:21<tcsetattr>ratpoison is a window manager, it runs inside of your X session. running it before the X server is started will not work.
23:22-!-luiscanayo [~luiscanay@190.232.164.88] has joined #debian
23:22<luiscanayo>hola como estan
23:22<sysop>thanks guys, do I need to have a full blown xserver?
23:22-!-luiscanayo [~luiscanay@190.232.164.88] has quit []
23:23<lifedog>adb:it named tunapie?
23:23<adb>ues
23:23<adb>yes
23:23<lifedog>adb:thanks, i'll search it
23:24<adb>yw
23:24<kop>sysop : You need the server, that's what runs the screen/keyboard.
23:24<adb>lifedog: apt-cache search tunapie
23:24<sysop>cool
23:24<tcsetattr>having an X server is very "blown". the X server is just the bridge between some drivers and all the programs that use them
23:24<tcsetattr>isn't very "blown", I meant!
23:25-!-unomeasjon [~jon@pool-72-77-92-14.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #debian
23:25<NullZero>how do i get out of Nano?
23:25<unomeasjon>poopy
23:25<kop>sysop : Those cameras look cool. Low light and high frame rate.
23:26<kop>NullZero : You read the bottom of the screen where the instrctuions are.
23:26<lifedog>adb:i had search in the google,it is more details fot installation and instroduce
23:26<penpen>NullZero: see that text at the bottom with the ^ and a letter?
23:26<hmn>NullZero: the ^ means to hold Ctrl while you press the next button
23:26<NullZero>yes, its not working
23:26<NullZero>i did that
23:26<penpen>ctrl+o?
23:26<NullZero>ok i lied it worked :)
23:26<penpen>lol
23:26<lifedog>adb:thanks:)
23:26<NullZero>i'm going to do this
23:27<NullZero>i'm determinded
23:27-!-muammar [~muammar@190.198.114.214] has joined #debian
23:27<adb>lifedog: apt-get install tunapie
23:27<NullZero>determined
23:27<tcsetattr>now you can see why I phrased it in the form of a printf >>
23:27<kop>NullZero : Learn either emacs or vi. If you choose emacs the only thing to remember is you hold down ctrl and press the x key, then hold down ctrl and press the c key to exit. Everything else works as expected.
23:28<kop>!tell NullZero -about paste
23:28<kop>NullZero : If it still does not work paste the interfaces file.
23:28<lifedog>adb:i'll try
23:28-!-ecc3_15 [~ecc3_15@173.8.237.54] has joined #debian
23:28<tcsetattr>everybody wants to skip the mundane "learn to use an editor" phase of their education and get right to the chaotic "installing and configuring an OS from scratch"...
23:29<hmn>i have a question. how does debian decide if/when to replace configuration files that may have been customized?
23:29<NullZero>kop, the Wifi Settings are intact
23:29<hmn>e.g. files under /etc ?
23:29<kop>NullZero : Maybe it's not listed as "auto"? Anyhow, you still want the wire to work.
23:29<penpen>NullZero: was there a device called wlan0 or something instead of eth0?
23:30<tcsetattr>hmn, when dpkg upgrades a package, it compares 3 versions of config file: the one that came with the old package, the one that came with the new package, and the one that exists on the system now.
23:30-!-cisc0ninja [~d0cipx@76-237-83-156.uvs.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving]
23:30<tcsetattr>if both the local version and the in-package version have changed, it makes you decide which one you want.
23:30<NullZero>penpen, no
23:30<hmn>tcsetattr, i see. thanks
23:31<kop>hmn: It can tell if you changed the config files, and it asks you about in on install/upgrade depending on your debconf (?) settings where you say how much asking you want done.
23:31<tcsetattr>if the local version has changed and the in-package version hasn't, your local changed version stays. if you haven't touched it but the in-package version has changed, you get the new version.
23:31<unomeasjon>poopy
23:31<unomeasjon>your opinions on the asus eee pc?
23:31<tcsetattr>unfortunately it doesn't present the changes in a nice 3-way merge form like you get with cvs merge conflicts...
23:31<unomeasjon>your opinions on the asus eee pc?
23:31-!-sysop [~sysop@CPE001839c4bdc9-CM000a739a3f1b.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:31<hmn>kop, thanks also
23:31-!-ecc3_15 [~ecc3_15@173.8.237.54] has quit []
23:32<kop>unomeasjon : It's too bad they took money from Microsoft to keep the Linux version from being priced lower than the Microsoft version.
23:32<NullZero>i have a first generation eee pc, its nice if you're into tinkering with it like what i'm trying to do
23:33<NullZero>personally the acer aspire one is a better choice
23:33<kop>tcsetattr : I think diff3 would be overkill for most folks. It lets you figure it out however you want. Simple is good.
23:33-!-lobao [~Humberto@189.34.99.11] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
23:34<tcsetattr>it's hard to figure out when you only get to see 2 versions of the 3 that are relevant. (I can never find the old-package version to do a proper comparison)
23:34<lifedog>adb:i didn't install streamripper,could i change to another audio player in reference?
23:35<lifedog>adb:i didn't install streamripper,could i change to another audio player in preference?
23:35<kop>tcsetattr : A valid complaint, methinks. File a bug report?
23:35<kop>NullZero : So, eth0?
23:35<tcsetattr>I think I'm at my limit of "bug reports I filed that were completely ignored".
23:35<NullZero>it was empty, so I added the lines, but how do i make it the default device?
23:36<NullZero>is "allow-hotplug eth0" the command?
23:36<kop>NullZero : It should now turn on at boot. If you "ifup eth0" it should come up now.
23:36<NullZero>ok, i'm gonna reboot
23:36<kop>!tell NullZero -about reboot
23:37<tcsetattr>interesting question. I think if you are using dhcp it just assumes you want to use the DHCP server's suggested gateway. I'm not sure how you'd override it if you wanted to.
23:37<adb>lifedog: i don't know, i'm used with streamripper, work very well
23:38<unomeasjon>kop, is that so?
23:38<kop>tcsetattr : It's going to be a matter of which interface comes up first, I think. Once there's a default route it won't be overwritten, I think. So one approach would be to control which interface comes up first.
23:38-!-complexity [~complexit@ip98-185-158-201.lf.br.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
23:38<NullZero>little trouble saving the file lol i'm such a noob :-/
23:39<adb>ah , audacious is default audio player, streamripper is needed for records
23:39<kop>unomeasjon : ?
23:39-!-ddcc [~ddcc@ip68-110-100-242.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #debian
23:39<unomeasjon>kop, i purchased my 900a from bestbuy for cheap and threw crunchbang linux on it and it runs great... im sure windows xp wouldnt be any better
23:40-!-complexity [~complexit@ip98-185-158-201.lf.br.cox.net] has joined #debian
23:40<adb>lifedog: audacious may be changed sure
23:40*tcsetattr wonders if adb is the old debugger or the old keyboard connector
23:41<NullZero>kop, whats qod2?
23:41<ddcc>a dmidecode response of " Type: EDO DIMM
23:41*adb an "add data base"
23:41<kop>unomeasjon : Oh, about MS. Thing is, the first Linux version _was_ cheaper. The next version had more hardware in the Linux version to justifiy being the same price as the MS version, but the hardware they added was sorta useless. More "disk". When Linux needs _less_ disk than XP. What would have made it a better box is more RAM, but that would have made the Linux version really kick XP's butt. So, I see the hand of the MS "marketing kickback" department.
23:42<Gun_Smoke>Anyone use iceowl?
23:42<unomeasjon>kop, that angers me... damn microshaft
23:42<kop>NullZero : You'd need to "/msg dpkg qod2" in this irc session to find out.
23:43<NullZero>its working!!!
23:43<ddcc>does a dmidecode response of "Type: EDO DIMM" and "Type Detail: Synchronous" indicate that i'm using sdram or edo dram?
23:43<NullZero>you guys rock ;)
23:43<NullZero>i hope you guys don't mind my inexperience
23:44<NullZero>i just want to get away from windows
23:44<kop>unomeasjon : It's been happening forever. Get used to it. Once upon a time, every PC came with a bios that was preset to first boot from CD. Why not? It was changed when live Linux cds started showing up? Why? I asked the head Linux guy at IBM and he didn't really want to comment. Guess for yourself.
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23:44<kop>ddcc: Sounds edo to me. But I don't know.
23:45<ddcc>ok, thanks. it's slightly confusing, because below that there's another section that states "Type: SDRAM"
23:45<unomeasjon>kop, my 900a comes with a 4gb ssd... how hard would it be to rip that out and throw in a 120gb lap top hd
23:46-!-sysop_ [~sysop@CPE001839c4bdc9-CM000a739a3f1b.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #debian
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23:46<NullZero>unomeasjon, my 701's ssd is soldiered on :(
23:46<kop>unomeasjon : Probably no space. Dunno. But you could throw in a much bigger ssd. Have you looked?
23:46<unomeasjon>well, asus supports eee's that have their warrenty sticker torn so i might look inside
23:46<kop>unomeasjon : There's also power requirements. A regular drive has them.
23:47<kop>unomeasjon : Easy answer. Usb memory stick.
23:47<NullZero>does the 900a have the same small keyboard?
23:47-!-Gun_Smoke [~G@c-76-101-129-233.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:47<unomeasjon>yeah i have a corsair 64gb flash.. but it has slooooowww right and read speeds
23:47<sysop_>it looks like the mirror I've selected for packages is flakey, is there an app I can run to re-select from the list or do I have to manually change the sources.list?
23:48<kop>sysop_ : I always find it easier to go to the mirror list at debian.org and make the change manually. Easier than figuring out the answer to your question.
23:48<unomeasjon>kop, im loving the intel atom processor ... such great power from a little dude makes me happy
23:49<NullZero>can i post a link in here?
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23:49<kop>sysop_ : Also, I like leaving the old one commented out. And then add your own comment that says why. This is a big strength of config files. You can use them to keep records of "why" things are the way they are.
23:49<hmn>NullZero, sure
23:50<unomeasjon>i need to install synergry on this puppy so i can use my nice keyboard on my big machine to type... the eee's keyboard is way to small for my giant sausage fingers
23:50<NullZero>this is going to be the coolest linux device ever, http://www.openpandora.org/
23:50<kop>unomeasjon : You can't just plug a keyboard into a usb port?
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23:51<unomeasjon>kop, yes but deskspace is limited
23:51<NullZero>i somehow adjusted to the smaller keyboard, but i still need to use a mouse
23:51<kop>unomeasjon : My experience is that keeping the keyboard on your lap makes for the most natural and stress-free typing. YMMV.
23:51<ddcc>kop: thanks for your response. i looked up the manual for the motherboard online, and it seems that it supports both edo and sdram
23:52<unomeasjon>Ok, keyboard plugged in.. alot easier to type.
23:53-!-Holborn [~holborn@237.Red-217-125-137.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
23:53<unomeasjon>kop, keyboards in and font size is increased .. im taking your advice and typing from my lap.
23:53<NullZero>kop and penpen, i really do appreciate your assistance. i'm finally up and running
23:53<kop>unomeasjon : sysenergy is cool. Too bad it needs X. :-(
23:54<unomeasjon>kop, have ypu tried the crunchbang linux distro? i know its ubuntu based but im loving it, seems to run great on the asus
23:54<kop>unomeasjon : I've enough to do without playing with distros. I stick with debian, openbsd, and some RH.
23:55<NullZero>kop, are you a linux admin of some sorts?
23:56<kop>unomeasjon : Next step, get a keyboard that's "split" so you don't twist your wrists as much. Otherwise the next 48 hour straight programming session may put you on the road to carpel tunnel. It's a pain to undo the pain.
23:56-!-ddcc [~ddcc@ip68-110-100-242.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
23:56<kop>NullZero : Software and network consultant.
23:56<kop>NullZero : Inevitably I'm an admin.
23:56<unomeasjon>kop, big question for you.. I have vista loaded on my machine right now and a secondary HD inside... when I try to install another copy of windows or linux, vista freaks out and refuses to boot..any ideas?
23:56-!-karim [~karim@81-66-70-98.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:56<unomeasjon>kop, im ofcourse installing the secondary OS on the seperate drive
23:57<NullZero>I'm new to the IT world, but i want to venture off into linux administration
23:57<sysop_>sudo apt-get install mysql doesnt work ?
23:57<kop>unomeasjon : Learn to use the windows boot loader. Tell it to prompt for booting visa or chainloading grub, which will then boot anything.
23:57-!-xxiao [46705665@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
23:58<sysop_>can mysql be installed from apt?
23:58<NullZero>wow, this is nice and very lean
23:58<NullZero>Debian <3
23:58<kop>NullZero : IMO certificates are worthless. But the pointy haired human resource people like them. At least if you don't already have a job in the field.
23:58<unomeasjon>Ahh, i feel like playing some left4dead, anyone care to join?
23:58<kop>!tell NullZero -about grounding
23:58<kop>sysop_ : Sure.
23:59<hmn>NullZero, thanks for that link.. i may buy one of these things :)
23:59<NullZero>I currently have my A+ and Network+, but I want to get a Linux cert just so I get some foundation
23:59<sysop_>kop; do you know the key word? 'sudo apt-get install mysql' doesnt work
23:59<kop>NullZero : The best advice I got, although I was already in the field, by a IT professional was to lie to get your first job.
23:59<sysop_>"Package not found"
---Logclosed Sun Feb 22 00:00:00 2009