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#debian IRC Logs for 2009-05-17

---Logopened Sun May 17 00:00:18 2009
00:05-!-kaloyan [~kaloyan@host-12-5-91-128.allegiance.tv] has joined #debian
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01:00-!-hphubert [5559aec8@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #debian
01:00<hphubert>hi
01:01<hphubert>can You help me in bashish?
01:02-!-drakeman [~drakeman@190.32.183.34] has joined #debian
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01:03<hphubert>?
01:04-!-skule_ [~svs@0x5da05bf2.cpe.ge-1-2-0-1109.arcnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has joined #debian
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01:07-!-Bob [joseph@142-217-98-144.telebecinternet.net] has joined #debian
01:09-!-jas [~chatzilla@ppp-95-239.33-151.iol.it] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Iceweasel 3.0.9/2009030814]]
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01:14<ga_bash>hphubert, what is bashish.? you talking about bashism.?
01:14<ga_bash>bashism is a religion..
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01:23-!-chitchat [~guest@218-214-24-203.people.net.au] has joined #debian
01:26<Bob>Anyone here has a knowledge of SQL, more specifically PostgreSQL which I need to run SQL-Ledger?
01:26-!-paratux [~user@80-123-7-224.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #debian
01:30<anjum>hi
01:30-!-rbrito [~rbrito@187.22.248.170] has joined #debian
01:30<anjum>can anyone tell me whats the status of mono in debian
01:31<anjum>it seems to be stuck at 2.0
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01:38<gsimmons>anjum: See http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianMonoGroup/TODO
01:38<anjum>thanks
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01:57-!-cheal is now known as chealer
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02:12<beer>I would just say tanks for putting kdenlive in Sid. Now there is one less reason to use http://debian-multimedia.org/ (but one will proberbly still remains: libdvdcss2)
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02:17<adb> kdenlive ?
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02:38<slavsun>how to execute a comman in terminal in background ?
02:38<slavsun>if I use & at the end of the command it just stops there
02:38<slavsun>sorry, not command, to bash script
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02:48<chealer>slavsun: & is the way... if that doesn't do what you want, what is your native language?
02:49<slavsun>Russian
02:49<slavsun>it does not work
02:49<slavsun># ./create_distr grip testing i386 &
02:49<slavsun>[4] 3662
02:49<slavsun>[4]+ Stopped ./create_distr grip testing i386
02:51<apteno>Ctrl + Z and bg ?
02:52-!-superjet_busy [~superjet@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
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02:53<slavsun>no
02:53<slavsun>I need following
02:53<slavsun>for example
02:53-!-quaker66 [~quaker66@213.191.105.214] has joined #debian
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02:54<slavsun>I connect through ssh to server
02:54<slavsun>to run script
02:54<slavsun>and end my ssh session
02:54<slavsun>but script must work in background at this time
02:54<apteno>use screen ? :p
02:54<apteno>screen ./create_distr grip testing i386
02:56-!-chris_ [~chris@c-24-8-196-153.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #debian
02:56<chris_>hello
02:57<apteno>hello chris_
02:57<chris_>Apteno: question, since I'm an idiot please.
02:57-!-GoinEasy9 [~GoinEasy9@ool-182dfe9d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #debian
02:58<chris_>how to you hunt for specialized chatrooms?
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03:10<apteno>hmm, I have wifi connetion enable, but, no internet... DNS 192.168.1.1 isn't use !
03:11<apteno>and I have no access to my private network
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03:16<troy1>gnea still not working
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04:13<jas>DNS 192.168.1.1 .... lol
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04:21<simonrvn>o_O
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04:33<shashi>fantasydb 100% /var/log
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04:58<hachi>console-tools seems to not setup all the VT when the primary console is on a serial line
04:58<hachi>anyone know how to get around this sort of thing?
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05:31<cemunal>adb, ping
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05:48<Supaplex>!volitle
05:48<Supaplex>!volitile
05:48<dpkg>i guess volatile is a project that aims at keeping the <stable> and <oldstable> distributions up to date for fast moving packages such as virus scanners, spam scanners and firmware downloaders. http://volatile.debian.org/ An example line for your lenny sources.list is: deb http://volatile.debian.org/debian-volatile lenny/volatile main contrib non-free
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05:53<Supaplex>judd: versions clamav
05:53<judd>Supaplex: clamav -- etch: 0.90.1dfsg-4etch16 etch-security: 0.90.1dfsg-4etch19 etch-backports: 0.94.dfsg.2-1~bpo40+1 lenny: 0.94.dfsg.2-1 lenny-security: 0.94.dfsg.2-1lenny2 etch-volatile: 0.95.1+dfsg-0volatile2 lenny-volatile: 0.95.1+dfsg-1volatile2 sid: 0.95.1+dfsg-2 squeeze: 0.95.1+dfsg-2
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06:00<Supaplex>note to self. some volatile mirrors are much faster than others.
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06:02<dr|z3d>Supaplex: You can test the speed of mirrors and automatically select the fastest with Synaptic.
06:03<Supaplex>hummm someday I might try that.
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06:03<dr|z3d>Synaptic -> Tools -> Repositories -> ...
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06:04<zxd>Hi
06:04<Supaplex>mv $self->brain $bed
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06:04<zxd>dpkg: status database area is locked by another process dpkg: error while cleaning up: subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 2Errors were encountered while processing:
06:04<dpkg>...but status database area is already something else...
06:04<zxd>why does it say it's locked
06:05<Supaplex>you're using two things at once to access/use the package management system
06:05<zxd>what to things
06:05<zxd>I am using only dpkg
06:05<zxd>not else running
06:05<zxd>two
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06:06<Supaplex>check ps auxww, or top, or lsof for ideas.
06:06<zxd>no way I have anything like that running , only used dpkg , it happens after I tried dpkg -i this package several times
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06:07<zxd>Supaplex, did
06:07<Supaplex>strace -Ffo strace.log -- dpkg -i ...
06:07<zxd>Supaplex, what next
06:07<zxd>good idea
06:07<Supaplex>have fun. ZZzZzz are calling me.
06:08<zxd>why did it create so many strace files
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06:11<pouchedfox>drz3d is there a way to do the server test from the command line?
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06:15<zxd>what's the command to change all packages to "install" state
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06:16<pouchedfox>sudo aptitude install hardriveflooder
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06:18<pouchedfox>drz3d - found it - its netselect-apt
06:19<zxd>I have all packages in 'ri' state
06:19<zxd>want to put them in ii
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06:28<pgimeno>I have a package with a config file that I want to overwrite and I want to regenerate it. I've tried 'apt-get install --reinstall', but the config file is not written, even if 'dpkg -l' lists it. How can I get the file, other than (1) purge and reinstall, or (2) extract the package?
06:29<pgimeno>BTW, I've also tried dpkg-reconfigure to no avail.
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06:30<locklace>what's wrong with purge
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06:31<pgimeno>locklace: it would pull other packages
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06:32<hachi>dpkg --purge --force-all package?
06:32*dpkg drinks a glass of salty water, sticks his fingers down his throat and throws up --force-all package all over hachi and ml|...
06:32<hachi>then you just apt-get install it again
06:32<hachi>or even just apt-get -f install
06:32<hachi>and it will solve the dep
06:32<hachi>but really
06:32<hachi>if the file is listed as a conffile
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06:33<hachi>dpkg should have asked you if you wanted to overwrite it
06:33<dpkg>hachi: i haven't a clue
06:33<hachi>and if it was a package file it should have overwritten it
06:33<pgimeno>dunno, maybe it's broken somehow
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06:34<hachi>seems unlikely to me
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06:34<hachi>if the file is a package file, is it diverted?
06:34<hachi>see dpkg-divert
06:35<pgimeno>how do I look? dpkg-divert --list?
06:35<hachi>I dunno, check the manpage
06:35<hachi>that's what I always do
06:35<pgimeno>not diverted
06:35<hachi>is there any chance you would say what package this is
06:35<hachi>and what file?
06:36<hachi>you know, so that it's not a hypothetical package... but a real one that I can look at
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06:36<pgimeno>package is xmame-common, it has /etc/xmame/xmamerc
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06:37<hachi>oh, here's a shot in the dark
06:37<hachi>move the file to a new name
06:37<hachi>then do the reinstall
06:37<hachi>see if it creates it for you?
06:37<pgimeno>that's what I did, I renamed the whole /etc/xmame to /etc/xmame.bak, and it recreated /etc/xmame and a couple subdirs but not /etc/xmame/xmamerc
06:38<hachi>that sounds like the --reinstall failed
06:38<hachi>did it throw any errors or messages?
06:38<pgimeno>nope
06:39<pgimeno>since it's in non-free I was guessing it might be broken somehow
06:39<hachi>well, I dunno then... it's listed as a normal package file, so the --reinstall would have tried to do it
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06:40<hachi>I'm not too up on the debug techniques, so I'd probably find the .deb file on disk that it's installing from
06:40<hachi>doing dpkg -c on it
06:40<hachi>to see if the file on disk actually claims to the file you expect
06:41<hachi>maybe run apt-get under strace -f and watch for it trying to do it
06:41<hachi>you could maybe do an `apt-get clean`
06:41<pgimeno>running dpkg -L xmame-common shows /etc/xmame/xmamerc
06:41<pgimeno>hm, I like the strace idea
06:41<hachi>not -L sir
06:41<hachi>-c
06:42<pgimeno>ok
06:42<hachi>dpkg -c /var/cache/apt/something something
06:42<dpkg>drwxr-xr-x root/root 5679 2005-1-12 10:06:02 ./usr/share//var/cache/apt/something something/pr0n/hiltons.jpg
06:42<hachi>but an easy thing you can try
06:42<hachi>apt-get clean
06:42<hachi>and do the reinstall
06:43<pgimeno>yep, it's there: -rw-r--r-- root/root 1405 2008-06-19 09:07 ./etc/xmame/xmamerc
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06:44<hachi>then yeah, me... I would be shoving it through strace
06:45<pgimeno>I've also found this which suggests it has trouble updating config: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=365445
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06:52<pgimeno>hm, it does create xmamerc.dpkg-new but it gets deleted afterwards, after detecting that xmamerc doesn't exist, without creating it. Sounds like a package bug to me.
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06:54<ginoIta>hallo
06:54<ginoIta>i need help to install debian from the dvd set
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06:56<ginoIta>nessuno che ha voglia di aiutarmi ?
06:56<dr|z3d>!it
06:56<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
06:56<ginoIta>ok thank's
06:56<n2o>how to crack KOMODO IDE ?
06:57<dr|z3d>n2o: That's not a Debian related question, is it?
06:57<n2o>oh sorry
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06:57<n2o>how to disable beep sound in lenny ?
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06:59<dr|z3d>n2o: http://www.arsgeek.com/2006/08/23/how-to-turn-off-the-annoying-system-beep-in-linux-debianubuntu/
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07:00<n2o>Thank you dr|z3d
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07:22<pgimeno>one thing I've always wanted to know... purging vs removing... does purge merely delete also the configuration files as seen in /var/lib/dpkg/info/<package>.conffiles or does it do something else?
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07:27<pgimeno>no luck, I finally purged all and reinstalled :(
07:27<pgimeno>thanks anyway hachi
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08:15<supaman>hey ... my screen is a bit sluggish (in X) and I dont know much about graphics but I see that I have to /dev/fb* (no framebuffer device), could that be the issue?
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08:17<supaman>when I say sluggish, then I mean that when I scroll my mouse on pages like http://octave.sourceforge.net/doc/E.html#E my processor goes up to 100% almost
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08:18<Gathond>supaman: sounds to my more like you are using the VESA driver and not an accelerated one
08:18<Gathond>but framebuffer may help that bit as well I suppose if there is no accelerated driver
08:18<supaman>hmm ...
08:18<fxiny>nothing wrong here , with that page
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08:19<supaman>ok, Ill check this
08:19<Gathond>supaman: it is not restricted to that page right? that is just an example
08:20<supaman>Gathond: right
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08:20<cyclo>gr
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08:21<Gathond>try checking which driver X is ueing
08:21<supaman>seems like I am using the intel driver (from the log file), I have an onboard intel chipset
08:22<supaman>lspci gives me 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 82865G Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 02
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08:23<supaman>and in the xorg log file I see (--) PCI:*(0@0:2:0) Intel Corporation 82865G Integrated Graphics Controller rev 2, Mem @ 0xf0000000/134217728, 0xfe780000/524288, I/O @ 0x0000efe0/8
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08:23<Gathond>seems ok
08:24<Gathond>I don't have that much experience with this, and nothing at all with intel integrated graphics, I've always gone the discrete gfx route
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08:24<supaman>ok
08:25<Gathond>you don't happen to use some composite rendering manager?
08:25<supaman>well ... I am just wondering .. was looking through the debian-user mailing list and saw some talk there about frambuffers, decided to check my system and saw I had none ... got me wondering
08:25<supaman>Gathond: nope ... just basic X with Gnome running ..
08:25<supaman>not the default wm that comes with Gnome ... but openbox or something like that ... can't quite remember
08:26<Gathond>well I don't have any /dev/fb* either on this laptop with nvidias binary driver and full 3d acceleration
08:26<Gathond>so it is not required as such
08:26<Gathond>I would try looking for any WW or EE messages in the log file
08:26<supaman>obviously not .. but the postlist said the debian kernel had framebuffers built into it ...
08:26<Gathond>and see if any of those gives a hint about it
08:27<Gathond>supaman: hmmm it does actually, I remember the console changing recently to some framebuffer stuff
08:27<locklace>supaman: framebuffer is independent of x (unless you're using Xfb itself)
08:28<supaman>locklace: ahhh ... yes, that was what the posts were about .. the switching to console issue
08:28<supaman>which works fine for me
08:28<Gathond>doesn't for me, but I put that fault squarely on nvidias incompetence
08:29<supaman>but strange thing also here is that if I use kernel 2.29 (I am running 2.26 now) then X completely screws up
08:29<locklace>your problem is something else, maybe x driver issue, maybe application-level problem
08:29<locklace>supaman: not that strange, .29 has dri
08:29<supaman>locklace: which means?
08:30<supaman>Gathond: yeh, nvidia seems to have problems with framebuffers .. tried the open source version, nv?
08:30<Gathond>I did, and that works
08:31<locklace>lots of dri/drm/kms changes in more recent kernels, specificially affecting intel drivers
08:31<Gathond>however 3d acceleration is a nogo
08:31<locklace>you'll have to search around, and inspecting your xorg.log in detail would be wise
08:31<Gathond>so it is essentially a choice, having the ability of going X -> console -> X or 3d acceleration
08:31<Gathond>as I never use the former, the choice is not that hard:)
08:31<supaman>Gathond: might want to have a look at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=652038
08:32<supaman>Gathond: get your meaning :)
08:32<supaman>locklace: I see a few warnings there ... and one EE ... intel(0): Failed to pin xv buffer
08:33<locklace>what does xvinfo return
08:33<Gathond>supaman: I doubt that is related to your poor performance, that EE one may be though
08:34<supaman>locklace: this http://pastebin.com/d45b476f7
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08:35<Gathond>supaman: good luck, I have to go
08:35<supaman>Gathond: thanks ... :)
08:37<locklace>supaman: how about xdpyinfo
08:39<supaman>locklace: http://pastebin.com/d215cf73f
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08:42<moodindigo>hi! Is there a place where packages go between NEW and incoming? deja-dup is gone from NEW but not in incoming yet. Or was it rejected? (ITP-Bug #506590)
08:42<supaman>and I have an almost empty xorg.conf file ... so everything is autodetected (this is what happened during my lates dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg)
08:43<locklace>supaman: seems ok to me, is it only the browser that gives you trouble?
08:44<supaman>locklace: no ... not really ... like when I was copying this info to pastebin then I ran the commands in gnome terminal and copying the whole text took my CPU way up as my blocking scrolled down the terminal (it was several terminals high, so there was a lot of scrolling)
08:44<supaman>and it was slow
08:45<supaman>took several seconds
08:45<fxiny>supaman: can you cp ~/.mozilla ~./mozilla_old *without* errors ?
08:45-!-chitchat [~guest@218-214-24-203.people.net.au] has joined #debian
08:45<fxiny>i had a weird issue with ~./mozilla files last week
08:45<supaman>fxiny: havn't tried that
08:46<fxiny>supaman: i had to remount ro and fsck the f* partition
08:46<supaman>moodindigo: you might want to try #debian-mentors
08:47<supaman>or #debian-devel
08:47<moodindigo>thx, it's not as if I want to package stuff myself, it's just that I am curious about deja-dup ;)
08:47<fxiny>some firefox extensiuons files were not regular files at all , it happened three times
08:48<locklace>supaman: well, only two things i can suggest; 1, look for a new driver or driver version to try, ask around in an intel x channel if there is one; 2, try newer kernel again and debug that problem
08:48<supaman>fxiny: well .. don't think thats going to help me since the problem goes beond FF
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08:48<supaman>locklace: well .. thanks anyway for your time and patience
08:48<locklace>supaman: one other possibility, boot another distro that's using different kernel/x off a livecd and compare
08:48<fxiny>supaman: i understand but i had the same problem : 100% cpu and such
08:49<locklace>supaman: eg arch is using x 1.6 now
08:49<supaman>fxiny: and did it fix the problem for you?
08:49<supaman>locklace: ahh ... good suggestion
08:49<supaman>then I can copy the xorg.conf from there
08:49<locklace>supaman: also before you do that, easier thing, try a clean desktop with no gnome, just a wm
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08:50<fxiny>supaman: fsck found not regular files three times down ~/.mozilla , i removed two f* extensions and i had no porbs sicne then , still waiting
08:50<locklace>fxiny: what kind of filesystem
08:50<fxiny>i thought was my hd , that's why i wait
08:50<supaman>fxiny: ok
08:51<fxiny>locklace: sticky files and some owned by 1279845 garbage like that
08:51<locklace>fxiny: what kind of filesystem are you using.
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08:51<locklace>ext3, jfs, ...
08:51<fxiny>no way to delete 'em . fsck reported deleted inodes and something about bitmap
08:52<fxiny>locklace: ext3
08:52<locklace>lenny?
08:52<fxiny>yes
08:52<dr|z3d>fxiny: fsck -c ?
08:52<fxiny>dr|z3d: no : fsck -vf
08:52<fxiny>ext3.fsck
08:52<dr|z3d>fxiny: Suggest fsck -c might be helpful.
08:52<supaman>gonna try out some of locklace's suggestions
08:52<locklace>fxiny: suggest you install smartmontools and run its tests
08:52<supaman>see you laters
08:52<fxiny>-c 0 did npthing
08:53<dr|z3d>Hmm.
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08:53<fxiny>locklace: i know SMART but why only firefox/* ?
08:54<locklace>no reason other than because it does a lot of disk i/o
08:54<locklace>it's definitely a filesystem problem, not an app problem
08:54<locklace>nothing an app does should ever be able to cause fs corruption
08:55<fxiny>locklace: one was some extension translation sub dir
08:55<locklace>you should run e2fsck with -c -c (twice for the rw test) and then use the smartmontools
08:56<fxiny>is not my hd
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08:56<fxiny>some of this s* extension use a cache
08:57<fxiny>and i believe they do something wrong with it
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08:58<locklace>re-read comment starting with "nothing an app does"
08:58<fxiny>the problem fsck reported was : about deleted inodes and more , i'm sorry cant rememeber it nor i can find some notes
08:58<fxiny>and one of this was about a "cache" file
08:59<fxiny>three times in a week
08:59<fxiny>same s* plus the ddamned translation dir
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09:00<fxiny>i'm not saying they are installing spyware
09:00<fxiny>but they do not play right
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09:02<Nazcafan>hello
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09:03<fxiny>how i find that out ? because i have ~/.mozilla backups and i rsync 'em
09:03<Nazcafan>I have installed apache
09:04<fxiny>obvioyusly same thing with mc or cp
09:04<Nazcafan>and I can connect locally to my http server, but I can not connect to ti
09:04<Nazcafan>to it from another computer
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09:05<locklace>Nazcafan: so it's either not listening on anything but the loopback interface, or something between the remote system and this one is blocking the connection
09:06<fxiny>so i fsck my partion , rm -fr the "sanitized" by fsck ~/.mozilla dir . but it happened again with the same extension once and another extension again later , so can't be my hd
09:06<locklace>Nazcafan: also define "can not connect"; does it time out? do you get a connection refused? big difference
09:06<Nazcafan>locklace, is that the default setting?
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09:06<locklace>no idea
09:07<locklace>fxiny: you are apparently not listening to anything i've been saying, so i've given up
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09:08<fxiny>locklace: do you think mozilla checks those f* extensions ? i do not .
09:09<Nazcafan>locklace, how can I check?
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09:09<locklace>Nazcafan: from the remote system, telnet to this system and the port where the web server is supposed to be listening
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09:09<Nazcafan>what is http? 80?
09:09<pgimeno>Nazcafan: I think looking in /etc/apache2/ports.conf can help
09:10<locklace>Necrun: also netstat -4l on this system to see the listener sockets
09:10<locklace>Necrun: yes
09:10<locklace>er, Nazcafan
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09:13<bert_>hello all
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09:13<bert_>does anyone knows a good tutorial/documentation/website to configure my newly installed debian lenny with french support please ??
09:14<bert_>I'm unable to do it with lxde :(
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09:18<Nazcafan>bert_, what french support are you looking for?
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09:21<bert_>I looking for 'basic' french support like lxterm with french characters (for now lxterm shows ? instead of ?), desktop menus in french ...
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09:22<bert_>xterm works good with french characters
09:22<bert_>don't knwo with all my desktop environment is in english
09:22<bert_>I used to have it in french with gnome
09:22<bert_>but no luck with lxde
09:22<Nazcafan>As far as I know, bert_, I guess xterm doesn't have support for utf8, hence, if your system is set to french utf8, I am not sure it will work
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09:23<Nazcafan>bert_, does the command "locale" show you french locale settings?
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09:23<petern>it certainly does support utf8
09:24<bert_>Nazcafan, but xterm print french chars correctly so I think it supports utf8
09:24<bert_>bert@lenny:~$ locale
09:24<bert_>LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8
09:24<bert_>LC_CTYPE="fr_FR.UTF-8"
09:24<bert_>LC_NUMERIC="fr_FR.UTF-8"
09:24<bert_>LC_TIME="fr_FR.UTF-8"
09:24-!-bert_ was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
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09:24<bert_>LC_NAME="fr_FR.UTF-8"
09:24<bert_>LC_ADDRESS="fr_FR.UTF-8"
09:24<bert_>LC_TELEPHONE="fr_FR.UTF-8"
09:24<bert_>LC_MEASUREMENT="fr_FR.UTF-8"
09:24<locklace>dude
09:24<bert_>LC_IDENTIFICATION="fr_FR.UTF-8"
09:24<bert_>LC_ALL=fr_FR.UTF-8
09:24<locklace>!paste
09:24<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: http://paste.debian.net/ or http://rafb.net/paste/ or http://picpaste.com for pics. Use wikisend.com for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Just use pastebinit (package) if you cannot cut & paste.
09:24<ml|>dpkg: tell bert about paste
09:24<bert_>lol
09:24<bert_>sorry or flood
09:24-!-mode/#debian [+b *!*bert@41.136.196.*] by Ganneff
09:24-!-bert_ was kicked from #debian by Ganneff [bert_]
09:25<ml|>oh well
09:25-!-mode/#debian [-b *!*bert@41.136.196.*] by Ganneff
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09:25<zxd>dpkg: status database area is locked by another process
09:25<dpkg>...but status database area is already something else...
09:25<Nazcafan>well, at least his locale seems ok
09:25<zxd>how do i get rid of this
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09:26<ml|>dpkg: tell bert about paste
09:27<ml|>dpkg: tell bert_ about paste
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09:27<stud05>ert
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09:27<Nazcafan>that is weird, my computer doesn't respond to ping from another host in the network
09:27<ghantoos>zxd: check if the update manager isn't working
09:27<locklace>Nazcafan: sounds like you have firewall rules in place
09:28<locklace>Nazcafan: iptables -S will show them if so
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09:29<Nazcafan>-P INPUT ACCEPT -P FORWARD ACCEPT -P OUTPUT ACCEPT
09:29<shamanix>Nazcafan: it is possible to disable answering pings, firewalls and routers usually have an option for this, it is even possible to disable ping and still be able to access a computer
09:30<locklace>Nazcafan: no reason ping shouldn't work then, provided 1, the remote system is also not doing any filtering, and 2, nothing in between is doing any filtering
09:30<Nazcafan>I can ping the remote system but the reciprocal is not true
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09:30<pgimeno>routing problem?
09:30<Nazcafan>testing that again
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09:31<Nazcafan>mhh
09:31<locklace>pgimeno: no, if there was a routing problem the echo replies wouldn't make it back
09:31<Nazcafan>locklace, shamanix pgimeno I restarted my connection to the wireless AP and now it seems to work
09:31<Nazcafan>wifi is not the best thing to set an apache server :-D
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09:35<ga_bash>yes
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09:54<SQlvpapir>no
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09:58<xyem>locklace, Debian is currently being installed on my laptop :-)
09:59-!-minamata [~jcyv@sem44-1-78-228-164-24.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian
09:59<minamata>hi
10:00<minamata>trying to install JACK on a Debian SID : error message = imossible to connect jack
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10:06<zxd>update-initramfs: deferring update (trigger activated)
10:06<zxd> Removing any system startup links for /etc/init.d/mountfix ...
10:06<zxd> Adding system startup for /etc/init.d/mountfix ...
10:06-!-bo [~bo@84-72-174-245.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #debian
10:06<zxd>dpkg: status database area is locked by another process
10:06<dpkg>...but status database area is already something else...
10:06<abrotman>zxd: please use a pastebin
10:07<zxd>is there a verbose argument to dpkg
10:08-!-justaguy [~justaguy@76-10-138-233.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #debian
10:08<bo>hi, I search for some guys willing to help me get involved into debian development.
10:09<zxd>what;s wrong here why it says it's locking
10:09-!-Nazcafan [~fou@ant06-1-82-242-110-209.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:10<abrotman>bo: involved how?
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10:13<bo>abrotman, I first need some contact, some guys to talk about. So that I can find out better what fits most. I studied IT and worked for 2 Jahrs as appl-specialist. So I do have IT-skills in programming and supporting
10:14-!-Nazcafan [~fou@ant06-1-82-242-110-209.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian
10:15<bo>abrotman, I would look foreward to do some IT-work. Some translations would also be ok, but it's not my main intrest and also not my best skill
10:16<abrotman>http://debian.org/devel/ .. there are a lot of documents to get you started reading ..
10:16<bo>abrotman, main reason for me to join ist to take part at debian and to learn about how things work
10:17<locklace>bo: http://www.debian.org/devel/join/newmaint
10:17<bo>abrotman, thx, I browsed already araound there
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10:18<abrotman>bo: have you tried making your own packages yet?
10:18-!-LightKnight [~gabry@adsl-ull-233-28.49-151.net24.it] has joined #debian
10:18<bo>locklace, abrotman so first step would be to do an application?
10:18<bo>abrotman, nope
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10:19<locklace>bo: no, consider actually reading the page
10:19<bo>abrotman, would you recomend to make some deb's
10:19<bo>yes yes
10:19<bo>:-)
10:19<abrotman>bo: there are lots of different steps in becoming a DD/DM .. it ultimately depends what you want to do in debian
10:19<bo>mk
10:19-!-ubuntu [~ubuntu@123.64-138-244-net.sccoast.net] has joined #debian
10:19<abrotman>and you don't have to be a DD/DM to contribute to debian
10:19-!-ubuntu [~ubuntu@123.64-138-244-net.sccoast.net] has quit []
10:22*abrotman can't recall the page about "contributing"
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10:23<abrotman>http://wiki.debian.org/HelpDebian .. maybe
10:23-!-rapha [~rapha@p548A6EBC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian
10:23<abrotman>bo: see the above URL .. which also links you to http://www.debian.org/intro/help
10:23<bo>abrotman, thx, I just made my first hello here to say what I'm looking for :-)
10:23<fxiny>good
10:24<bo>hope I find a way
10:24<fxiny>a user like me appreciate this . debian must live
10:24<bo>is there a simple possibility to get into contact with guys in my region?
10:25-!-adb [~hic@orb-rem-catv-c100-p100.vtx.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:25<bo>hm, the wiki-link is a good one, thx
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10:27<abrotman>bo: i don't think there is a swiss channel
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10:27<abrotman>oh .. it has two users in #debian.ch
10:28-!-dr|zed [~dr|z3d@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
10:28<bo>abrotman, hm, and one I even "know" :-)
10:28<abrotman>bo: ah okay .. sometimes you'll find a mailing list for meetups in your area
10:28-!-fregl_ [~fregl@dslb-084-057-157-064.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:28<Rusty1_>http://www.lugs.ch/linux/ << bo
10:28<abrotman>i think he meant debian people
10:29<bo>abrotman, exactly
10:30<bo>#debian.ch is fine
10:30<bo>thx Rusty1_
10:30<abrotman>bo: i think there are a few Debian people in/near zurich
10:30<abrotman>not sure where you are in switzerland
10:30-!-fregl [~fregl@dslb-084-057-157-064.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #debian
10:30<bo>I will try to contact xtaran
10:30<bo>hes from this region afaik
10:31<abrotman>bo: tarzeau is also somewhere in switzerland, but i'm not sure where exactly
10:31<abrotman>he used to be nice .. :)
10:31<bo>even was once in a presentation of demian conway with him I think
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10:34<OdyX>bo: Where are you from exactly ?
10:34*OdyX is swiss also
10:34-!-joko [~joko@195.167.200.5] has joined #debian
10:34<bo>OdyX, Winti
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10:35<OdyX>bo: the Zürcher cabal is the nearest then ;) (madduck, tarzeau, Axel Beckert, …)
10:36-!-adb [~hic@orb-rem-catv-c100-p100.vtx.ch] has joined #debian
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10:37<cerber556>hello
10:37<cerber556>il n'y a persone ici
10:37-!-ekki [eder@12.85-85-111.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es] has joined #debian
10:38<cerber556>by
10:39-!-bert [~bert@41.136.196.160] has joined #debian
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10:39<bert>hmmm
10:39<cerber556>hummm
10:39<abrotman>cerber556: english here please
10:39<abrotman>!fr
10:39<dpkg>Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debian-fr sur irc.oftc.net. French users: for help in french, please go to #debian-fr on irc.oftc.net.
10:40<bert>I found my problem : If I launch X with startx, all my locales are OK, my environment is french
10:40-!-cerber556 [~florent@ACaen-157-1-67-196.w83-115.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #debian []
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10:40<bert>but if I login through xdm, session is in english ...
10:40<bert>a way t configure xdm with good locales ?
10:40<valdyn>!locales
10:40<dpkg>Use `dpkg-reconfigure locales' to get it up and running. This generates locale definitions and also edits /etc/default/locale which sets the $LANG environment variable at login time.
10:40-!-legnaleurc [~legnaleur@59-127-21-204.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #debian
10:40<bert>valdyn, my locales are ok
10:41<bert>I did reconfigure my locale
10:41<bert>my only problem is with xdm
10:41<valdyn>bert: whats the output of "grep LANG /etc/default/locale" ?
10:42<bert>LANG=fr_FR
10:42-!-Ancho [~Ancho@gssn-590d2a85.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #debian
10:43<OdyX>bert: are your xdm i18n packages installed ?
10:43<valdyn>xdm does not have i18n packages
10:43-!-lucas_ [~lucas@ANancy-551-1-20-101.w92-130.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian
10:44<valdyn>bert: and the LANG is set to what after you log into xdm ?
10:45<bert>how to see that ?
10:45<valdyn>bert: echo $LANG
10:45-!-fregl [~fregl@dslb-084-057-157-064.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:45<bert>from a term
10:45<bert>ok a min
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10:49<bert>hmm
10:49<bert>there is something wrong
10:49<bert>it looks like if only my desktop envionment is in english
10:50<bert>from a xterm, my LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8
10:50<bert>if I launch xchat from that term, Xchat is in french
10:50<bert>but if launched from lxde menu, it is in english
10:50<bert>same thing for iceweasel
10:51<Torsten_W>bert, dpkg-reconfigure locales
10:51<valdyn>bert: why is your locale different to whats in /etc/locale
10:51<Torsten_W>set there default to fr
10:51<valdyn>bert: why is your locale different to whats in /etc/default/locale ?
10:52<valdyn>bert: i.e., where did you set it manually?
10:52<bert>no
10:52<bert>juste trying to put some export LC_ALL=... in some config files
10:52<valdyn>bert: no what?
10:53<valdyn>bert: fr_FR is NOT the same as fr_FR.UTF-8
10:53<bert>ok
10:53<valdyn>bert: we saw that fr_FR.UTF-8 obviously works, i cant tell if it works for fr_FR without you trying that one
10:53<bert>I do a dkpg-reconfigure locales from console (ctrl-alt-F1)
10:53<valdyn>bert: run in a terminal : "LC_ALL=fr_FR xchat"
10:54-!-joko [~joko@195.167.200.5] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:54<bert>text is in french, but special characters like é are wrong
10:54<valdyn>bert: you want to dpkg-reconfigure locales and set fr_FR.UTF-8 as default and make sure its generated
10:55<bert>yep
10:55<bert>I choose only fr_FR.UTF-8 and I choose that as default
10:56<bert>then it says locales-ll installed, skipping locales generation
10:56<bert>no I'll restart my session with a xdm restart
10:56<valdyn>bert: verfiy the setting in /etc/default/locale
10:56<bert>I'll logout and login as root to launch xdm
10:56<bert>LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8
10:56<valdyn>bert: ok
10:57<bert>have it in my .profile too
10:57<valdyn>bert: not needed
10:57<bert>ok I deleted it
10:57<bert>test
10:58-!-bert [~bert@41.136.196.160] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:58<valdyn>now hes gonna start xdm the wrong way
11:00<kristianpaul>who admin the dpkg infobot at #debian?
11:00<valdyn>!what are you
11:00<dpkg>I am an infobot. For more info see <infobot>.
11:00<valdyn>!who owns you
11:00<dpkg>dondelelcaro does
11:01<locklace>!what is your favourite colour
11:01<dpkg>locklace: what are you talking about?
11:01<ml|>lol
11:01<valdyn>!lose locklace
11:01<dpkg>locklace: You Lose.
11:01<@Ganneff>fine. now stop playing please :)
11:02<@Ganneff>this is not a little childs channel (we arent hat grown up yet) ;)
11:02-!-mm5087 [~mm@203.82.91.103] has joined #debian
11:02<kristianpaul>ping dondelelcaro
11:02<abrotman>kristianpaul: what do you want to know about the bot?
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11:05<bert>ho
11:05<bert>thank you all finally it works
11:05<bert>after logout/login, root LC_ALL was still fr_FR, even after rebooting
11:06<bert>then I found a LC_ALL=fr_FR in /etc/environment
11:06<bert>...
11:06<bert>changed it, then all is aok
11:06<bert>thank you again :)
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11:07<N2O>hi , everybody !
11:07<w1zard>hi
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11:07<N2O>i have a question ! how to run babylon from wine of lenny ?
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11:09<N2O>no help ?
11:09<abrotman>do you get any errors ?
11:09<N2O>yes
11:09<N2O>gecko
11:10<locklace>ok, stand by while we read your mind
11:10<abrotman>"gecko" is the error ?
11:10<N2O>no
11:11<N2O>after install gecko
11:11<N2O>i run babylon
11:11<N2O>and not work correctly babylon
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11:12<abrotman>!doesn't work
11:12<dpkg>Look buddy, "doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message?". Ask me about <smart questions> <errors>
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11:15<N2O>i see this erroe when i run babylon " HTML rendering is currently disabled. "
11:16<N2O>what is problem ?
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11:18<abrotman>N2O: you'd probably get more help from #winehq on irc.freenode.net
11:19<N2O>ok
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11:20<locklace>!fgi N2O wine-html-rendering-is-currently-disabled
11:20<dpkg>N2O: http://fuckinggoogleit.com/search?query=wine-html-rendering-is-currently-disabled
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11:32<Nazcafan>hello
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11:33<Nazcafan>in which file can I enter a per user environment variable for the whole apps running on a gnome session?
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11:35<fxiny>Nazcafan: which app ?
11:35<Nazcafan>all aps that I run from gnome
11:39<fxiny>Nazcafan: http://wiki.debian.org/DotFiles
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11:43<supaman>--w----r-T what does the T mean there in filepermissions?
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11:46<fxiny>sticky
11:46<supaman>isnt that small t?
11:46<fxiny>non exec
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11:47<fxiny>supaman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_system_permissions
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11:48<supaman>ahh .. thanks
11:49<fxiny>np
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11:55<xyem>Egads, is there any way I can skip the formatting when selecting LVM+Encryption during installation?
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11:57<Nazcafan>fxiny, finally, I used the .gnomerc file
11:57<Nazcafan>fxiny, seems to work
11:57<Nazcafan>(don't know exactly how and why, but it works)
11:58<fxiny>Nazcafan: gnome way ? right
11:58<Nazcafan>well, it is for scim, actually, so the gnome way doesn't sound too lame
11:59<Nazcafan>fxiny, however, I bookmarked you link, I think it will become handy very soon
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12:00<fxiny>Nazcafan: debian wikis are handy , good improvement
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12:00<fxiny>i used to google for gentoo howto but i see many good debian wiki entries
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12:02<gnomex>Hey guys, there is a simple way to clean gnome? like uinstall things that i dont use? (it hapened automatcally 2 months ago, i dont know how to do it?
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12:03<gnomex>like, i dont use Bluetooth, but if i try uinstall, it try to delete gnome!
12:03<fxiny>gnomex: read aptitude -s purge <packagename> output first , -s stands for simulate
12:03<ml|>gnomex: deborphan might help
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12:03<fxiny>oops
12:03<ml|>yes -s is great
12:03<user01>mmm during boot of the install cd there are several errors on buffer i/o sr0 messages, then it goes to the install menu . . . is it safe to continue you thinik?
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12:04<fxiny>yeah as ml| said , deborphan can help
12:04<ml|>fxiny: the debian wiki has improved :)
12:04<fxiny>ml|: indeed
12:04<ed_debian>user01, I am pretty sure those are just the CD being a little difficult to read
12:05<fxiny>ml|: we can wind gentoo up , again ;)
12:05<user01>ed_debian, phew ok cool
12:05<ed_debian>user01, I have done installs after seeing those messages and nothing bad happened
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12:05<ml|>user01: did you check cd for errors or md5 on download
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12:06<user01>are there options for more keyboard types that arent on the menu? I like the american english international . . .
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12:07<user01>ill try to change in post install i guess
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12:12<user01>ml|, honestly no but it was the minimal net install
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12:12<user01>it is for my old laptop
12:13<user01>but its the one i always use :)
12:13<ml|>if it works great ;)
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12:20<xyem>No-one know how to skip formatting my entire disk for install-time encryption?
12:20<xyem>It's annoying as the disk has already been fully formatted and encrypted..
12:20<user01>mmm . . . if i have the wireless firmware drivers in a deb file on my usb stick, it will recognize that i hope?
12:21<user01>it was asking for the unpackaged file
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12:26<kapal>Could you name a commandline tool (preferably included in debian squeeze) which reads cd/dvd disk session information or yields "empty disk" or sth similar?
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12:27<kapal>Appreciate any answer...
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12:28<user01>mmm . . . how long would you wait with a blue screen during install before rebooting?
12:28<petemc>you can see what its doing by switching vts
12:28<petemc>atl f4
12:29<user01>petemc, thanks!
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12:29<petemc>kapal: wodim, perhaps
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12:30<kapal>petemc: issuing apt-get install wodim
12:30<user01>it looks maybe like it is trying to read my usb drive as fat but it is ext2
12:30<user01>FAT:unable to read boot sector
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12:32<user01>isofs_fill_super: bread failed, dev=fd0 iso_blknum=16 block=32
12:32<user01>FAT: utf8 is not a recommended IO character set for FAT filesystems
12:32<user01>I/O error
12:33<user01>and it is formatted ext2 so . . . i should maybe disconnected the drive
12:33<user01>its in an endless loop
12:33<fxiny>catch 22
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12:34<user01>mmm restart install :)
12:34<user01>ill try to install wireless post install this time
12:35<user01>i thought looked dangerous
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12:35<user01>i only selected like the keyboard type anyway
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12:37<kapal>petemc: Thank you very much `wodim dev=/dev/cdom -toc` does the trick. Thanks alot again.
12:38<petemc>np
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12:39<OdyX>kapal: /dev/cdRom ;)
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12:39*OdyX copy-pasted and it did not work
12:39<kapal>OdyX: true... still thanks for noticing :)
12:39<user01>usb-storage requires fat32 formatted usb stick during install i take it
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12:54<rodrigo_>Hi, does anyone have an HP530?
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12:55<ml|>dpkg: ask
12:55<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
12:55<rodrigo_>I need to configure intel gma950 whit debian
12:55<rodrigo_>for compiz
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12:57<fxiny>rodrigo_: no , i havn't a HP530 , i have a fiat-chrysler ubuntu-500 powered : no root no steering wheel , a great success :P
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12:57<ed_debian>rodrigo_, Check out the compiz-check script. Wait a second and I'll get you a link.
12:58<rodrigo_>sure, thx
12:58<ed_debian>rodrigo_, http://forlong.blogage.de/entries/pages/Compiz-Check
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12:59<rodrigo_>I will check that
12:59<rodrigo_>thanks for the link
12:59<ed_debian>rodrigo_, No problem
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13:02<ml|>fxiny: hah
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13:03<Zenfur_>Jestem hardkorem
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13:11<omnom>hey guys, I got myself in some trouble here
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13:11<omnom>I ran taskel install standard and now I don't have aptitude or tasksel
13:12<omnom>and I can't reinstall using apt-get install becase of unmet dependencies
13:12<omnom>I m using squeeze
13:13<omnom>how can I fix this mess ?
13:15<abrotman>do you have dpkg?
13:15<omnom>let me check
13:15<omnom>yes
13:15<valdyn>omnom: you have apt-get ?
13:15<omnom>valdyn: yes
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13:15<valdyn>omnom: apt-get install tasksel
13:16<omnom>valdyn: unmet dependency aptitude
13:16<abrotman>omnom: apt-get update
13:16<valdyn>judd: versions aptitude
13:16<judd>valdyn: aptitude -- etch: 0.4.4-4 lenny: 0.4.11.11-1~lenny1 sid: 0.4.11.11-1+b1 squeeze: 0.4.11.11-1+b1 experimental: 0.5.2.1-1
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13:17<omnom>abrotman: already did an update
13:18<valdyn>omnom: what is the error for "apt-get install aptitude" ?
13:18<omnom>The following packages have unmet dependencies:
13:18<omnom> aptitude: Depends: libapt-pkg-libc6.7-6-4.6
13:18<omnom> Depends: libept0 (>= 0.5.22) but it is not going to be installed
13:18<omnom>E: Broken packages
13:18-!-omnom was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
13:18<mETz_>valdyn: found out how to push both sources and my backported package into a repo using reprepro :)
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13:18<abrotman>omnom: can you put your sources.list in a pastebin (and your errors from installing aptitude)
13:18<omnom>sorry got kicked, how do I use the paste bot ?
13:19<ml|>dpkg: tell omnom about paste
13:19<mETz_>doh, wrong nick, nm
13:20<omnom>http://pastebin.com/m4dbae34b
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13:20<abrotman>omnom: your sources point at lenny
13:20<valdyn>omnom: you said you were in squeeze
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13:22<valdyn>judd: versions libapt-pkg-libc6.7-6-4.6
13:22<judd>valdyn: libapt-pkg-libc6.7-6-4.6 --
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13:22<omnom>I did a fresh reinstall yesterday from a squeeze netinstall and didn't change anything in there
13:22<valdyn>omnom: so you install lenny from a squeeze installer
13:22<valdyn>omnom: so you installed lenny from a squeeze installer
13:22<omnom>something's fishy ... anyways, give me aminute to fix that and try again
13:22<valdyn>omnom: that doesnt make sense
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13:25<omnom>valdyn: I totally agree with you, and it seems the source.list got replaced during the night a couple hours I reinstalled
13:26<mETz_>well, if you currently have squeeze packages installed then maybe just fixing the sources.list and running apt-get update fixes your dependency-problem :)
13:26<omnom>thanks guys, I'm back on tracks and aptitude is being reinstalled as I'm typing
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13:27<yappa>is there any channel here where you can ask questions related to http servers/web servers/web frameworks...
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13:28<abrotman>yappa: you can try
13:28<rodrigo_>Anyone knows why i cant log in firefox using debian?
13:28<rodrigo_>i mean facebook*
13:28<yappa>abrotman, try where? here?
13:29<abrotman>sure
13:29<abrotman>rodrigo_: firefox or iceweasel?
13:29<omnom>just checking, there's no volatile/security repos for squeeze right ?
13:29<rodrigo_>Facebook , i cant log in facebook...
13:30<locklace>omnom: no volatile, for security updates there's "deb http://security.debian.org/ testing/updates main"
13:30<omnom>rodrigo_: security measures, facebook is stealing your privacy ! ^^
13:30<rodrigo_>lol i still need it
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13:32<omnom>locklace: thanks. btw I fixed my dhcp problem yesterday by powering the computer off for 15 minutes and trying again. for some reason during my first try the NIC got borked and was not working. luckily for me my bios includes a network cable check.
13:32<yappa>okay... is there any reason why one should use a Python web framework if you can develop one in C++? I know this is a vague question, but I wonder why there are so many Python frameworks and almost none in C++. Sure, the C++ stdlib is very limited, but there are numerous libraries to extend its functionality. I've even developed a small web app myself that is capable of handling file uploads, post and get requests, etc... any thoughts on why C++
13:32<yappa>or any other compiled programming language is so rarely used, given that they are much faster and can be deployed on much cheaper hardware and still be as fast as a PHP/python equivalent.
13:33<fxiny>like a strobelight :P
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13:33<locklace>omnom: weird. recent forcedeth updates may help
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13:34<locklace>yappa: so you're wondering why more people don't do it in c++?
13:34<locklace>yappa: the short answer is that c++ is pain squared.
13:34<yappa>locklace, you mean because it is rather low level?
13:34<locklace>yappa: but if you like it, go for it. no one will stop you.
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13:35<omnom>yappa: my guess is it has something to do with python cuts dev time which allows for more testing. also c++ learning curve is steeper than python's
13:35<locklace>yappa: it would take me longer than you have to enumerate the reasons why c++ is painful.
13:36<omnom>I did some c++ a few years back and I have been doing my best to avoid it since then, I'm currently looking into python and I'm pretty pleased
13:37<locklace>i guess if it's not already clear to you, the best thing is to just go ahead and start trying to develop your framework with it
13:37<locklace>when you get sufficiently frustrated, you'll know there are alternatives readily available
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13:38<yappa>well, I kind of get your point. but the reason why you think I'd get frustrated, is because C++ is so low level and you have to implement a lot of things yourself that Python already does for you, am I right?
13:38<xyem>Gah, waiting for Debian install is boring
13:38<xyem>Good job I have >1 computer
13:39<locklace>xyem: if you did the right thing and only picked base install it should be very quick
13:39<abrotman>goes even quicker if you disconnect the network and do that later :)
13:39<xyem>locklace, not when it decides it wants to format all 220GB because I chose encryption
13:39<locklace>yappa: no, low-levelness is not the main problem; c++ can be made rather high-level these days (albeit in a threadbare way)
13:40<omnom>yappa: c++ is undecipherable, python enforces readability
13:40<xyem>locklace, despite the fact my hard-drive has already been fully formatted and used with encryption before..
13:40<locklace>xyem: i also don't recommend using the installer to set up crazy disk schemes
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13:41<locklace>yappa: if you're going to deal with c++, you can (and should) at least use the likes of boost
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13:41<omg_onoez>hi
13:41<xyem>locklace, guided, lvm+encryption, one partition
13:41<omg_onoez>i wish to mount smbfs as normal user
13:42<omg_onoez>so i added my user uid to fstab options and did chown user at mount point
13:42-!-stroyan [~mike@97-122-221-120.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #debian
13:42<omg_onoez>but now, when i type mount
13:42<omg_onoez>i c
13:42<omg_onoez>mount: only root can mount
13:42<locklace>xyem: your boot partition can't be set up that way, and it's a bad idea to do it for your root
13:43<omg_onoez>what am i doing wrong?
13:43<xyem>locklace, why? That is how I set it up before..
13:43<locklace>xyem: your boot partition needs to be ordinary for the bootloader to handle, and putting root on lvm/swraid/crypt is asking for trouble and also locks you into initrd
13:43<xyem>omnom, python enforces you to do what *it* wants, not what *you* want. For that reason, I will always find it "inferior" to Perl :-)
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13:44<arthurfurlan>what's the package that contains the command "mail"?
13:44<xyem>locklace, when I've used guided before, it always made /boot separate and unencrypted
13:45<arthurfurlan>I installed the "postfix" but I can't find the "mail" command
13:45<omnom>I was talking about the way to write indented code that ensure anyone can read any source, then of course python is not a different approach than perl. I like both cause they complement each other.
13:45<locklace>arthurfurlan: it's bsd-mailx by default
13:46<locklace>arthurfurlan: but it's an alternatives thing
13:46<omnom>oops remove that "not" from my sentence.
13:46<xyem>omnom, yes and that way is probably different to how I lay out my code..
13:47<arthurfurlan>locklace, perfect... I installed bsd-mailx and now I have the "mail" command
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13:48<xyem>locklace, do you know how to skip the 'Erasing data' step on encryption by any chance? I'm sure I found a way before but I can't find it again
13:49<locklace>never used it
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13:51<omnom>xyem: could be, if you already have your own efficient style. Python uses indentation to indicate control structures so you have to use correct indentation, can be a hassle for someone used to another way of indenting, but makes wonders for newcomers learning programming.
13:51<locklace>i also don't like the way the installer "guided partitioning" does things and so avoid it
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13:52<locklace>the indentation is the least of the problems i have with python
13:52<fgh>how come i get 800x600 as max resolution when using nvidia drivers when i can set higher with nv drivers?
13:52<locklace>it's easy to work with after just a little getting used to
13:53<locklace>fgh: try xrandr
13:53<fgh>yes? says 800x600 max
13:53<locklace>fgh: guess you'll have to set up modes for your monitor in xorg.conf then
13:54<blarson>fgh: How much video memory? is nvidia reseving some for 3d?
13:55<locklace>fgh: also look at your xorg.log file where it tells you why it decided on the modes that it did
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13:56<omnom>oops, I did something stupid aka restart kdm while aptitude was rolling a full-upgrade. Is there a way to recall the process ?
13:56<xyem>Hahaha
13:57<xyem>If I select "Cancel" it stops erasing
13:57<xyem>Duh.. that was easy
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13:57<OdyX>omnom: apt-get -a install
13:57<chealer>fgh: please provide your X log and configuration.
13:58<omnom>OdyX: command line option is not known
13:58<xyem>locklace, the only issue I have come across having most of my drive encrypted is that it breaks resume from hibernation..
13:58<vook>fgh: set up a modeline in the Screen section of /etc/X11/xorg.conf that looks something like: Modes "1280x1024" "1024x768" ,etc... The first entry on the line is default.
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13:59<locklace>xyem: that, and the boot process becomes more complex and more likely to break and harder to repair, and again you're stuck with initrd
13:59<xyem>locklace, what would you suggest, just encrypting /home?
13:59<locklace>xyem: but if it's worth it to you, go for it
13:59<locklace>i don't know, i don't know why you want to encrypt things to begin with
14:00<omnom>xyem: encrypt sensitive parts such as swap
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14:00<xyem>locklace, because my laptop is reasonably easy to steal in comparison to my desktop
14:00<omnom>xyem: and you make a luks encrypted virtual drive to store your sensitive personal data
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14:01<locklace>ok. well, much better to restrict your encryption to partitions like /home if you can
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14:01<jimk>join #ubuntu-us-va
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14:01<locklace>all depends on what you consider worth going to the trouble to hide
14:02<xyem>locklace, usual things.. private keys, passwords for bank etc.
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14:02<locklace>that's all /home stuff
14:02<omnom>xyem: on a laptop you might want to protect bios and grub with a password, choose one you're not going to forget.
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14:04<omnom>xyem: if you have a thinkpad you may have a bios option to encrypt your drive at hardware level.
14:04<vook>locklace : sensitive information related to your employer for example - i.e. client information - data that could damage the reputation of your employer - for example, if your employer is in the business of dealing with financial information associated with clients.
14:04<christoph>My exim4 getting loads of spam messages against random email accounts that don't exist on the server -- is there something I can do to prevent that or should I simply ignore?
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14:05<xyem>omnom, for some reason, I don't trust such things
14:05<omnom>vook: if you have that kind of information, be sure to leak it and make it count. the financial sytem is going to collapse but helping it when we can is nice. ;)
14:05<locklace>vook: the question was for xyem
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14:06<fxiny>xyem: two things : http://madduck.net/docs/cryptdisk/ , second : i have a LUKS full encrypted box done it my way , i set the LUKS layer up and i've cloned a regular sustem over it . see debian-administration.org for info
14:06<mETz_>christoph: mail to non-existant accounts should get rejected anyway
14:07<vook>omnom: no comment :) but still, if you are in the business of working for a customer, they may entrust data to you, in which case you may wish to protect it for them (even if it's all good and true info).
14:08<omnom>xyem: the only way I know of recovering such an encrypted drive is opening the laptop, soldering on the tpm chip as specified, make and send dump to a guy who knows what to do with it, pay him and he'll send the password back.
14:09<xyem>omnom, or enter the backdoor passphrase the manufacturer put in there ;)
14:09<christoph>mETz_, it is rejected but there are *lots* of it
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14:10<omnom>vook: then the company moves to another building and leave behind the old unused computers with all the customer data. and somehow I get a pile of old P4 on my hands and find accounting files for governments and big corpos. This happened to me once every other year.
14:10<locklace>christoph: welcome to the internet
14:10<locklace>christoph: now you get to start learning about firewalling and blacklisting ip blocks
14:10<omnom>xyem: there's no backdoor on the specific kind of thinkpad hardware I'm talking about.
14:10<christoph>locklace, reading the logs indeed is often interesting, there are strange ways of breaking stuff one has never ever thought of but that are prevented in software
14:11<mETz_>christoph: there's lots ofother ways to reject things but I think most of them are more costly than simply rejecting unknown recipients
14:11<mETz_>rbl, policyd etc.
14:11<xyem>omnom, does nearly everyone in the world have the ability to verify that?
14:11<mETz_>locklace: is it a good idea to drop whole blocks at the netfilter level?
14:12<locklace>mETz_: it is if you know what you're doing
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14:13<mETz_>I don't have a list of "bad subnets" so I probably wouldn't know what I'm doing ;)
14:13<mETz_>but the tries in my postfix logs always seem to come from the same providers
14:14<locklace>mETz_: the whole thing is unavoidably complicated. in order to "solve" the problem you have to work at multiple levels, packet-filtering layer is one.
14:14-!-rodrigo_ [~rodrigo@pc-228-40-46-190.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:14<mETz_>not to mention all the stupid tries to offload mail for a domain served by my webserver which is NOT the mx of that domain *g*
14:14<locklace>mETz_: at that layer you can start with the no-brainers like filtering bogons, obvious rfc1918 blocks and unallocated ranges that should never be sending
14:15*vook is capable of playing the capitolists advocate even he remains unenthused with capitolism as we know it. bah, for another day and channel.
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14:17<abrotman>capital
14:17<omnom>xyem: I've had to deal with such a case and from my research of other people work there's no backdoor but you don't need one: http://www.ja.axxs.net/unlock/
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14:17<vook>abrotman: ya, that didn't look right as I typed it :)
14:18<fxiny>ahh capital
14:18<fxiny>tought was some esoteric cult :P
14:18<abrotman>vook: and there is #debian-offtopic
14:18<fxiny>vook: :)
14:18<vook>I'm there
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14:21-!-mode/#debian [+l 418] by debhelper
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14:22<simonrvn>mETz_: some example blocks, http://www.spamhaus.org/DROP/drop.lasso
14:22<xyem>Now.. to upgrade my kernel without an internet connection..
14:22*xyem ponders how to achieve such a thing
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14:23<simonrvn>a handy usb key
14:23<locklace>xyem: just copy over the .deb
14:23<mETz_>simonrvn: ahh, good to know
14:24<omnom>or you can use the good old method described in RFC 2549
14:24<simonrvn>very handy ;)
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14:24<mETz_>simonrvn: so far I only have a pretty secure rbl for dialup ranges in my postfix checks
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14:24<simonrvn>i have a few in SA and exim
14:24<mETz_>but this drop list could actually be used at the netfilter level
14:24<simonrvn>yes
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14:25<simonrvn>with some mild filtering you can feed it to ipt or your favourite "firewall" s/w
14:25<mETz_>heh, they even have an example sh script for creating rules via iptables
14:25<mETz_>shorewall in my case
14:25<mETz_>shouldn't be hard to adapt though ;)
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14:27<locklace>i'm amazed that after all this time the netfilter documentation still completely sucks
14:27<xyem>locklace, what is the package called... linux-kernel...?
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14:27<omnom>linux-image
14:27<locklace>xyem: linux-image-*
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14:28<xyem>locklace, cheers
14:28<locklace>xyem: http://packages.qa.debian.org/l/linux-2.6.html
14:28<fxiny>can be used in shorewall blacklist
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14:30<simonrvn>spamhaus is one of the best ones, imo/ime
14:31<fxiny>yes
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14:37<omnom>and a couple aptitude full-upgrade later I'm back in business and can now proceed to install apache \o/
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14:40<tomas>hola
14:40<tomas>me podrian ayudar
14:40<sney>!es
14:40<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
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14:43<tomas>podrian ayudarme
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14:43<sney>my spanish isn't good enough
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14:43<tomas>no problem
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14:44<sney>so, what's the problem
14:44<ml|>!br
14:44<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
14:45<sney>that was spanish ml
14:45<sney>and I already did the !es
14:45<fxiny>one more to go : pt
14:45<sney>maybe it's sleep time in #debian-es
14:45<ml|>sney: just making sure ;)
14:45<tomas>
14:45<tomas>well first of all thank you ... you'll know that my preblema is that I have 715 updates.
14:45<tomas>I wondered if I can run all
14:46<sney>most updates are very small
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14:46<fxiny>715 ? what debian version ?
14:46<tomas>8.4
14:46<fxiny>i knew it :P
14:46<sney>ubuntu?
14:47<tomas>yes
14:47<fxiny>ml|: the no root no steering wheel supercar :P
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14:47<xyem>I knew I shouldn't have unchecked "standard system", now I don't have ifconfig
14:47<ml|>fxiny: hehe
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14:47<sney>!ubuntu
14:47<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it is unlikely to live up to Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu (irc.freenode.net) instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian>.
14:47<abrotman>tomas: ubuntu support belongs in #ubuntu on irc.freenode.net
14:48<sney>you could still apt-get upgrade
14:48<sney>y espera :)
14:48<xyem>Is logging in as root preferred instead of using sudo in Debian?
14:48<sney>but why ubuntu is giving you 715 updates, well, we don't know
14:48<ml|>xyem: yes
14:49<xyem>ml|, I'm somewhat surprised..
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14:49<sney>I just do both
14:49<tomas>mm ok
14:49<sney>if I'm doing a whole bunch of maintenance stuff at once, I su -
14:49<sney>but if I'm just running one command then I sudo
14:49<xyem>ml|, I prefer sudo and if I need to do multiple things.. 'sudo su -l'
14:50<ml|>I use su for everything just use sudo for shutdown under normal user
14:50<sney>they both have their uses so they're both included by default
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14:51<sney>and scsudo is good if you have a bunch of sysadmins maintaining one system
14:51<sney>so if someone breaks something you can find out who it was
14:51<ml|>i don't think sudo is install by default
14:51<xyem>scsudo? That's a new one to me
14:51<xyem>ml|, it isn't
14:51<xyem>ml|, in my experience of minimal installations anyway
14:51<sney>it's in one of the tasks I guess
14:51<ml|>xyem: right in minimal
14:51<sney>anyway, scsudo makes you type in a reason for using root access
14:52<ootput>which package is that?
14:52<sney>I don't know if it was a custom thing or what but my last sysadmin job it was in our RHEL and Solaris systems
14:52<ootput>oh, solaris platform
14:52<ml|>sney: scsudo sounds nice
14:52<ml|>oh
14:52<sney>you could script it on top of regular sudo fairly easily
14:53-!-definy__ [~definy@190.43.4.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:53<omnom>I prefer sux over su so I can run graphical apps
14:54-!-roodie [~evil@84.27.228.238] has quit [Quit: exterminate, exterminate, exterminate]
14:54<fxiny>how scsudo can understand a given reason ?
14:55<fxiny>is it just reporting any lie ?
14:55<sney>it can't, it's just for accountability
14:55<sney>yeah
14:55<sney>so then when you break something
14:55<sney>your boss can go to the log and see what you were claiming to need to do
14:55<ml|>they know you did it fxiny ;)
14:55<fxiny>not very advanced , i bet dpkg can do it better
14:55-!-Piet [~piet@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Piet]
14:55<fxiny>i mean the beloved dpkg bot
14:56<ml|>dpkg: rocks
14:56<dpkg>Yer damned right...
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14:57<sney>dpkg -i sl_3.03-16_i386.deb
14:57*dpkg installs sl_3.03-16_i386.deb into sney's head with a bone saw and a few screws
14:57<fxiny>if an app like tht cannot understand a given reason is just a tool for the ignorant appointed inquisitor
14:57<dninja>can anyone give me help with cd writing?
14:57<sney>more like a tool for the lead BOFH.
14:58<sney>the ignorant inquisitors couldn't even comprehend our unix systems
14:58<sney>dninja: what sort of problem are you having
14:58<ml|>dpkg: tell dninja about ask
14:58<fxiny>a sysadmin should not explain everything he does , imo
14:58<dninja>just downloaded the debian 64 bit iso and burnt it using wodim. No machines can then re-mount the disk
14:58<dninja>tried burning a couple of times, smae problem
14:59<fxiny>unless is talking to a competent person
14:59<ml|>dninja: did you check download was good
14:59-!-bozz [~b0zzo@sba49-1-82-245-57-62.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:59<dninja>ye, just booted the iso in virtualbox and running install in there
14:59<dninja>Get either UDF-fs: No partition found (1)
14:59-!-Bob [joseph@142-217-99-129.telebecinternet.net] has joined #debian
14:59<dninja>or
14:59-!-joe__ [~joe@c-68-51-66-169.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:59<dninja>cdrom: hdc: mrw address space DMA selected
15:00<Bob> Anyone here has a knowledge of SQL, more specifically PostgreSQL which I need to run tinyERP?
15:00<dninja>tried forcing it to mount as 9660 but still no luck. An Archlinux machine just says "unable to identify cd-rom format"
15:00<ml|>bad burn?
15:01<dninja>tried it a couple of times. Could be burner is on its way out but shouldn't be
15:01-!-famelix [~famelix@189.26.22.28.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #debian
15:01<ml|>dninja: check md5 of download
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15:02<xyem>Ah, hashes of files you download to check integrity. Whoever thought of that I want to buy them a beer or whatever their preferred beverage is
15:02<dninja>sums match
15:03<dninja>the iso is currently mounted in virtualbox and i'm installing from it fine so seems iso is ok
15:03<dninja>some googling says this was a problems with nvidia drivers a couple of kernel versions back but should be fixed now
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15:04<chealer>Bob: just ask your question
15:04-!-quaker66 [~quaker66@213.191.105.214] has quit [Quit: Odcházím]
15:04<dninja>wodim did claim to write two tracks, track1 with 0mb and then track 2 with 648 M
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15:05<Bob>I am getting the following message trying to setup a database for TinyERP: "bash: initdb: command not found"
15:06-!-marga [~marga@190.55.100.172] has joined #debian
15:06<Bob>As if "initdb" was not installed on my computer, and it is...
15:06<Bob>it is here: : /usr/lib/postgresql/8.3/bin
15:07<xyem>Hm.. how odd. My sources.list has none of the "normal" repo's in it
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15:08<zeus>hi all, i'm on debian lenny, aptitudee tell me that i have to upgrade my stem with there packages (linux-headers-2.6.26-2-amd64 linux-headers-2.6.26-2-common linux-image-2.6.26-2-amd64 ... ). do i have to reboot after "aptitude full-upgrade" ? (i'd like to do not loose my uptime, if possible)
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15:08<dninja>I only wanted to try the 64bit version to see if there was a noticable difference. Is there for general day-to-day use? I'm a developer so compiling and editing stuff
15:08<xyem>zeus, only if you want to use the new kernel
15:09-!-kaloyan [~kaloyan@host-12-5-91-128.allegiance.tv] has joined #debian
15:09<zeus>xyem: ok ... i'll loose the uptime ! :-)
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15:09<dninja>xyem: has anyone worked out a way to swap in a new kernel without a reboot yet?
15:10<abrotman>yes
15:10<xyem>dninja, apparently so: http://www.ksplice.com/
15:10<abrotman>zeus: yes you should .. it's a security update
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15:11<ml|>dninja: for what you'll be doing you should, but only you can say after trying it
15:11<dondelelcaro>kristianpaul: pong
15:11<kristianpaul>dondelelcaro, hi
15:11<dninja>ok, I'm trying burning the cd from a different machine, hopefully I can mount that and then boot it
15:11<ml|>wow
15:12<kristianpaul>dondelelcaro, can y give me a hand with an inforobot issue
15:12<dninja>no, another machine just burnt the iso and gave this error when mounting
15:12<ml|>dninja: i believe your issue is a bad burn
15:12<dninja>isofs: unable to identify cdrom format
15:12<ml|>oh
15:13<dninja>different machine, md5sum matches, something odd going on somewhere
15:13<ml|>dninja: download from another source maybe
15:13<dninja>Got it from cdimage.debian.org but I'll try
15:14<dninja>it is just odd that the iso works for a virtual install
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15:14<zeus>another question. I've installed lenny when it was in testing and the first kernel was 2.6.22. Listing the content of my /lib/modules directory i see that i still have pieces of older kernels like 2.6.22, 2.6.24, 2.6.26-1) even if i have already removed these kernels via apt. I'm on 2.6.26-2. Can i rm -r those directory without broking the os ?
15:15<zeus>brokink -> breaking
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15:16<kristianpaul>dondelelcaro, i mean help
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15:18<locklace>zeus: yeah, although it's weird that those directories persisted after you purged the old packages
15:18<abrotman>kristianpaul: there is a #infobot on freenode
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15:18<xyem>Would it be a reasonable idea to run stable and install unstable/testing packages as I want?
15:19<abrotman>no
15:19<chealer>zeus: are you sure that you removed the old Linux images? if so, are the directories full or just contain a few modules?
15:19<zeus>locklace: i seems strage but it is !
15:19<locklace>xyem: no, stick with testing
15:19<locklace>zeus: does running dpkg -S on them show anything interesting? probably not
15:19-!-fregl [~fregl@dslb-084-057-177-013.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:20<zeus>chealer: just a second ... my debian box is restarting !
15:21-!-hollo [~hollo@3e6b7b2c.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:21<xyem>locklace, as in, use testing and install unstable packages as I want or just accept what testing has to offer?
15:21-!-fregl [~fregl@dslb-084-057-177-013.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #debian
15:22<locklace>xyem: just stay within testing. packages from unstable migrate into testing after ten days as long as they have no critical bugs and their dependencies are sane
15:23<chealer>!tell xyem about stable/testing mix
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15:23<xyem>locklace, but that would leave me with alsa 1.0.17.. where HDMI audio doesn't work
15:24<locklace>judd versions alsa-base
15:24<judd>locklace: alsa-base -- etch: 1.0.13-5etch1 etch-security: 1.0.13-5etch1 lenny: 1.0.17.dfsg-4 sid: 1.0.17.dfsg-4 experimental: 1.0.18.dfsg+1.0.18a-1 sid: 1.0.19.dfsg-3 squeeze: 1.0.19.dfsg-3
15:24<xyem>Odd
15:25<xyem>According to http://packages.debian.org/testing/allpackages, it is still at 1.0.17
15:25<chealer>xyem: rarely. usually people use stable possibly with backports or testing possibly with unstable
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15:26<locklace>xyem: testing here and i have the 1.0.19 package
15:26-!-adema [~adema@ip-178.net-89-3-164.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #debian
15:27<zeus>chealer: old lib/modules kernel dirs are aprox 1.2 MBs. Instad the running kernel is 78 MBs. In old kernel rirs there are some files (modules.alias modules.ieee1394map modules.isapnpmap modules.pcimap modules.symbols modules.ccwmap modules.inputmap modules.ofmap modules.seriomap modules.usbmap)
15:27-!-emanuel [~emanuel@189.104.78.145] has joined #debian
15:27<zeus>chealer: cam i rm -r ?
15:27<xyem>locklace, something needs to update that page then :-P
15:28<chealer>zeus: any modules (.ko)?
15:28-!-unconcerned [~delta@Rad01.r.pppool.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:28<zeus>chealer: absolutely not ! only modules.*
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15:28<locklace>xyem: http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/alsa-base looks fine to me
15:29-!-definy [~definy@190.233.84.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:30<emanuel>boa tarde
15:30<zeus>chealer: checked again. No there are no *.ko files.
15:30<emanuel>algum brasileiro no canal que possa me ajudar?
15:30<chealer>zeus: ah, I see what you mean. you just need to purge the corresponding Linux image packages.
15:30<locklace>!tell emanuel about pt
15:30-!-hollo [~hollo@3e6b7b2c.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #debian
15:31<chealer>!tell emanuel about br
15:31<zeus>chealer: purge ? do you mean apt-get remove ?
15:31<xyem>It seems the version number differs on the list..
15:31<xyem>alsa-base (1.0.17.dfsg-4)
15:31<xyem> ALSA driver configuration files
15:31<xyem>But is fine on the page
15:31<chealer>zeus: not exactly. purge removes the configuration files too.
15:32<chealer>!purge
15:32<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, purge is to completely wipe away a package, including its config files. Use aptitude purge [package] or if you already removed package with apt-get remove, and forgot config files you can use 'dpkg -P <package>' to remove configs. To purge all config files of all removed packages: aptitude purge '~c', or see <confmiss> about restoring individual config files.
15:32<zeus>chealer: sorry. do you mean apt-get purge ?
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15:34<chealer>zeus: yes, but it looks like that doesn't do anything for an already removed package. synaptic offers it, for example, or see the factoid.
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15:35<zeus>chealer: ok ... it's not a good-job but i think i'll rm. (i can't use synaptic if i remember well it requires a D.E.)
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15:37<chealer>zeus: synaptic does require X. you can used dpkg too as shown above.
15:37-!-cairnzi [~cairnzi@92-236-10-45.cable.ubr06.grth.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #debian
15:37<chealer>s/used/use
15:37-!-cerber556 [~florent@ACaen-157-1-67-196.w83-115.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian
15:37<Bob>anyone here familiar with tinyERP?
15:37-!-jen [~jen@cpe-68-174-102-162.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
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15:39<zeus>chealer: thank you a millon ! your help has been really appreciated !!!
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15:41<jen_n>Hi. I'm having some major problems with my X server after an upgrade; ive been through everything i can but am still stuck. Can anyone give me a pointer or two?
15:42-!-dr|z3d [~dr|z3d@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:42*xyem resists the urge to make a pointer joke
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15:42<jen_n>i'll take a joke or two if i can get X working again ;-)
15:43<locklace>!tell jen_n about how to ask
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15:47<jen_n>Sorry. I upgraded from testing to unstable; I'm running kernel 2.6.29-2-686 on a Lenovo Thinkpad T60. Somewhere in the course of the upgrade, my xorg.conf file got overwritten, and the new version is about three lines long; trying to regenerate it with dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg doesnt change it.
15:47<jen_n>Im not getting any terribly useful messages in any of the logs.
15:48-!-emanuel [~emanuel@189.104.78.145] has quit [Quit: Saindo]
15:48<ml|>http://www.ksplice.com/uptrack does look interesting
15:48<abrotman>jen_n: they're all like that now
15:48-!-Bob [joseph@142-217-99-129.telebecinternet.net] has left #debian [Quitte]
15:48<abrotman>jen_n: what is your video card ?
15:48<locklace>what kind of graphics card? what x video driver? hard to believe the xorg.log doesn't say anything about what's breaking, and you still haven't actually said what problem you're having
15:48<abrotman>or why you're running unstable ...
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15:50<ml|>any other way to not reboot, when doing a kernel upgrade?
15:50-!-stuckey [~stuckey@Z4886.z.pppool.de] has joined #debian
15:50<stuckey>!ripit
15:50-!-radio_ [~radio@a80-127-220-90.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #debian
15:50<locklace>ml|: not yet
15:50-!-radio_ [~radio@a80-127-220-90.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit []
15:50<abrotman>!tell stuckey about msg the bot
15:50<jen_n>Video card is Radeon Mobility X1400. I'm running unstable because i have another system thats running it fine, and running testing i keep having other problems so i thought it would be OK to go to unstable on this too.
15:50<mETz_>I think there was an approach with a standby kernel in memory
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15:51-!-mode/#debian [+l 412] by debhelper
15:51<stuckey>abrotman: I'm getting this error with the package "ripit": Directory Template incorrect, caused eval to fail: Bad file descriptor at /usr/bin/ripit line 1333, <STDIN> line 30.
15:51<abrotman>jen_n: so paste your Xorg.0.log in a pastebin .. and what exactly doesn't work?
15:51<jen_n>The roblem im having is that when X starts, it just flickers a few times and then gives me a blank screen; no controls work and i have to reboot into single-user mode.
15:51<stuckey>jen_n: How did you configure X?
15:51<abrotman>!tell stuckey about bts
15:51<ml|>guess will have to wait for ksplice and see if that works
15:52<jen_n>stuckey: i didnt, this time. I let it autoconfigure.
15:52<locklace>jen_n: what x video driver
15:52<jen_n>abrotman: give me a sec, im not on the affected computer now so i have to move the log over. Is there a preferred pastebin on this channel?
15:52<locklace>!tell jen_n about paste
15:52<abrotman>paste.debian.net
15:53<abrotman>and you can IRC from the CLI
15:53<jen_n>locklace: nothing is configured now. I dont know what driver im using. I had once tried fglrx but ditched it because it was flaky and i didnt need anything it offered.
15:54<jen_n>abrotman: I know i can IRC from the commandline but since im restarting the machine every two minutes its easier to do this
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15:54<locklace>jen_n: well, the log you're going to paste should clear that up at least, also "aptitude search '~i~nxserver-xorg-video'"
15:54<stuckey>jen_n: I'd try reconfiguring it "X -configure".
15:54<abrotman>jen_n: aptitude install xorg
15:54-!-mastroquet [~phil@AToulouse-552-1-21-184.w92-134.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.2.6.1]
15:54<stuckey>jen_n: paste.debian.net
15:56<jen_n>(while we're at it, how can I get out of the frozen X to a console? alt-ctrl-f6 etc. doesnt respond)
15:56<OdyX>!sysrq
15:56<dpkg>sysrq is, like, Alt-PrintScreen-<Key>. For a clean reboot with a semi-locked machine, try <Key> with s-u-b, s for sync, u for remount readonly and b for reBoot. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key and kernel /Documentation/sysrq.txt See also <sysrqd>.
15:57<locklace>if that and ctrl-alt-backspace don't work then you're probably screwed, only other hope is magic sysrq
15:57*OdyX is somewhat fan of short answers.
15:57<m2rt>uhm how do I enable second monitor on lenny?
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15:59<stuckey>What's the e-mail address to send bugs to? bugs@debian.org?
15:59<locklace>remember our little talk about reading the faq
16:00<locklace>http://debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-support.en.html#s-bugreport
16:01<blarson>m2rt: xrandr will do it for X.
16:01<stuckey>submit@bugs.debian.org
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16:01<chealer>m2rt: which X video driver do you use?
16:01<m2rt>nvidia?
16:01<bremner>stuckey: but please use reportbug instead
16:01<blarson>stuckey: it needs to have a package specified. use reportbug if you can.
16:01-!-skylla [~skylla@c-bd4ae155.173-1-64736c13.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #debian
16:02<m2rt>chealer: nvidia? :P
16:02<stuckey>blarson: I did use reportbug... now I'm sending the e-mail....
16:02<chealer>m2rt: if you use nvidia, do you have nvidia-settings?
16:02<stuckey>blarson: I have to e-mail this thing, don't I?
16:02<m2rt>chealer: yes it is installed.
16:02<jen_n>(just got a possibly-helpful message from the mailing list; am trying this fist before i paste my X log)
16:03<blarson>stuckey: reportbug will send the mail if configured properly.
16:03<bremner>stuckey: reportbug sends email for you by default
16:03<stuckey>blarson: what if you don't have an stmp server?
16:03*bremner resolves to let blarson talk :-)
16:04<ml|>reportbug is great
16:04*stuckey also likes reportbug.
16:04<m2rt>chealer: I got it working :P thanks :P
16:04<blarson>stuckey: you can save the message then send it from elsewhere.
16:05<stuckey>blarson: that's exactly what I'm doing... I'm sending it through gmail.
16:05<blarson>A copy is saved in /tmp for a while.
16:05<blarson>stuckey: make sure the package: line is the first non-header.
16:05<stuckey>Anyone here know anything about ripping Cd's? I want put some of my music collection on my computer but I'm not sure how to do it.
16:05<stuckey>blarson: I'm not following.
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16:07<xyem>Time to upgrade to testing
16:07<xyem>So I can get my wireless to work :)
16:07<user01>mmm i just installed fglrx-driver, now x-windows doesnt work . . . thoughts? :)
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16:08<blarson>stuckey: the BTS uses the first lines of the bug report to assign it to the maintainer. If they aren't the first lines, the bug will be rejected.
16:08<locklace>user01: uninstall it
16:08<chealer>stuckey: just ask your question
16:08<ml|>xyem: maybe try backport first unless you want to upgrade anyways
16:08<jen_n>Solved! Someone on the mailing list suggested that it was because I had installed the fglrx drivers, but was using Radeon; even though i didnt call the fglrx drivers in the conf file, they stepped on each other.
16:08<stuckey>blarson: I sent the email that reportbug gave me.
16:08<jen_n>I removed these drivers and now X is working again.
16:09<chealer>!tell user01 about xwindows
16:09<locklace>jen_n: you mean you installed them manually rather than using the debian package?
16:09<m2rt>chealer: false alarm, I found the external monitor. But it doesn't show picture...
16:09<jen_n>locklace: no, i installed using the debian package.
16:09<m2rt>and again chealer I got it working :D
16:09<m2rt>LOL
16:09<blarson>stuckey: but if you put another set of headers in front of reportbug's headers, it won't work.
16:09<m2rt>thanks!
16:09<stuckey>blarson: define "a set of headers"
16:10-!-xlotlu [~john@79.114.169.203] has joined #debian
16:10<jen_n>but on the list i was told that X tries to use libdri.so from the fglrx-driver package along with the radeon driver.
16:10<jen_n>So I have to use fglrx, or dump he fglrx-driver package, which would restore the normal libdri.so
16:10<jen_n>So i did this and all is OK.
16:10<blarson>stuckey: Read RFC822
16:10<xyem>ml|, I'm going to be running testing anyway
16:11<stuckey>blarson: what's this?
16:11<locklace>jen_n: that's an unfortunate packaging collision...
16:11<ml|>xyem: ok, gl
16:11-!-m2rt [~m2rt@82.131.69.240.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:11<xyem>ml|, besides, I think it was only complaining because stables package ( firmware-iwlwifi ) doesn't contain the firmware for my chipset
16:11<xyem>ml|, cheers :)
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16:12<locklace>xyem: you need the sid kernel package
16:12<jen_n>locklace: Uh, yea. http://bugs.debian.org/528800
16:12<jen_n>locklack: Uh, yes. Also http://bugs.debian.org/528800
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16:12<xyem>locklace, already downloaded and installed a newer kernel
16:12<jen_n>I had tried looking for something like this but didnt find it
16:12<xyem>locklace, I was expecting issues with dependencies but.. dpkg installed it just fine
16:14<locklace>jen_n: nice
16:14<jen_n>Now of only i could get rid of Pulse, my system would be working perfectly! :-)
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16:15<locklace>jen_n: yeah, half the battle is getting the wrong stuff to stay *off* the system
16:16<jen_n>locklace: in this case i do want Pulseaudio (I need it for good USB audio support) but i want it to not suck half the time. Thats one reason i went to unstable--kept having sound problems, hoping being more uptodate would help.
16:16-!-eli [~franco@190.176.43.15] has joined #debian
16:16<eli>hola
16:16-!-eli [~franco@190.176.43.15] has quit []
16:17<user01>hola
16:17<user01>debian.es isnt it?
16:17<locklace>jen_n: are you doing sound production?
16:17<abrotman>user01: he's gone
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16:18<user01>oh yep doing too many things at once
16:18<xyem>Why do I get .. what I can only guess is syslog information.. printed on my console?
16:18<jen_n>locklace: god no. Just listen to music, audio from flash, etc. on my computer, like everyone else. But I also use USB speakers sometimes.
16:18<xyem>And bam.. wireless is up and running
16:18<xyem>:D
16:19<duraperidol>hello, can anyone help?
16:19<stuckey>!ask
16:19<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
16:19<locklace>jen_n: huh. and no luck with current alsa for that?
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16:20<jen_n>havent tried current, but i'd had problems before, and ive asked on the list on occasion and everyone says USB support with current alsa is still bad. If it works now, im happy to try again--i have no need for any of the fancy pulse things.
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16:23<jen_n>i do need multiple streams, though, and MIDI support (for playing only, with Timidity). Dont know if that counts as fancy. Dont need network audio support though.
16:24<locklace>jen_n: alsa is in good shape for those things i think, but can't vouch for the usb support
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16:27<jen_n>locklace: Now that my system is a mess, maybe its time to give it a try again :-) Anyway, time to start cleaning up again, now that my desktop is back. Thanks again, eveyrone!
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16:32<user01>has anyone successfully gotten 3d to work on debian lenny for ati mobility radeon x300?
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16:39<abrotman>user01: you might want to specify which driver you're using
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16:47<xyem>Can anyone recommend a good, light terminal emulator.. xterm wants me to install ~40mb of other stuff..
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16:48<ml|>urxvt?
16:48<rodrigo_>Hi, does anyone have issues loging into facebook from iceweasel?
16:48<abrotman>xyem: they'll probably all want that or more
16:48-!-skandaleras [~luis@241.Red-79-145-244.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Bye!]
16:48<abrotman>rodrigo_: you are?
16:48-!-Gecob [~Gecob@host105-125-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via]
16:48<rodrigo_>Yeah, i cant log in
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16:49<xyem>ml|, thanks, 2.5mb is a lot better ( went with rxvt-unicode-lite )
16:50-!-Cheater [~ch3t3r_69@77.237.188.152] has joined #debian
16:50<ml|>xyem: oh yeah forgot lite version
16:50-!-numayeah [~yeah@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
16:50<Cheater>KASI AZ IRAN HAST ?
16:50-!-w1zard [~w1zard@bzk93.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:51<abrotman>Cheater: english please
16:52<Cheater>Yes sir
16:52-!-yappa [~yappa@p54ABFEA0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian
16:52<Cheater>abortman you from a persin ?
16:52<locklace>sadly, the bot thinks ir is infrared, not iran
16:52-!-jean [~eric@81-223-24-66.rasumovskygasse2.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #debian
16:52<abrotman>!.ir
16:52<abrotman>oh well
16:52-!-justaguy [~justaguy@76-10-138-233.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:53<ml|>hehe
16:53<locklace>not sure how useful it'd be anyway, is there even a #debian-ir?
16:53<abrotman>no ..
16:53<Cheater>pfffffff , i can't enter this room
16:54<locklace>oh well.
16:54<abrotman>you're already here
16:54<locklace>Cheater: looks like you're stuck with us, god help you
16:54<ml|>lol
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16:55<Cheater>i can't enter #debian-ir room
16:55<locklace>you can, it's just not very interesting
16:55<locklace>maybe you should work on that
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16:56<abrotman>there used to be a channel in Urdu .. not sure what the language is in .ir
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16:57<locklace>abrotman: persian
16:57<abrotman>is that a language?
16:58-!-cynix01 [~burak@dslb-084-056-249-178.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:58<locklace>aka farsi
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17:00<fxiny>i know farsi :P
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17:00<Cheater>salam fxiny :D
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17:01<fxiny>Cheater: hahaha can't translate it , i'm rolling on the f* floor . hahahah
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17:02<fxiny>i believe humans invented some words just for fun
17:02<abrotman>oh .. turkish ?
17:02<abrotman>or just a coincidence ?
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17:04<fxiny>yes , is a coincidence : farsi is from fare = to do , "to do oneself" is farsi like in "farsi a canna" where a canna is a splif :P
17:05<abrotman>not what imeant
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17:07<fxiny>so , the human brain goes alwasy around the same sounds , in any language , it just changes the meaning
17:07<fxiny>you can find thousand of examples
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17:42<rodrigo_>does anyone in this room own an HP530 laptop?
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17:43<ibrahim1>up
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17:56-!-aaaa is now known as linux_0
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17:59<andrew>how do u get into ubuntu server?
17:59<andrew>i need help mounting usb drive
17:59-!-Nazcafan [~fou@ant06-1-82-242-110-209.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian
17:59<themill>andrew: try #ubuntu on irc.freenode.net
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18:00<andrew>i claims i need password
18:00<andrew>i nee dto mount ausb drive
18:01<locklace>!lart andrew
18:01*dpkg whips out a sword and chops andrew in half
18:01<andrew>ok
18:01<xyem>Heh heh
18:01<andrew>i still need to mount a usb drive
18:02<xyem>My friend was recently asked what made her switch to Linux
18:02<locklace>andrew: #ubuntu is that way --->
18:02-!-rodrigo_ [~rodrigo@pc-228-40-46-190.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
18:02-!-skylla [~skylla@c-844be155.173-1-64736c13.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #debian
18:02<xyem>One of her reasons was "The community, which is equal parts quirky and awesome"
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18:03<andrew>how do i get it its still deb release
18:03<andrew>how do i fix the update iusse?
18:03<themill>andrew: We have no idea what quirky little tool ubuntu wants you to use to mount your usb drive. Just ask them.
18:03<andrew>says it can't get reponse form servers
18:04<ml|>!tell andrew about ubuntu
18:04<andrew>lol
18:04<andrew>they don't wnat be to do any thing the os its elef says can't mount drive
18:04-!-lukasz [~lukasz@ecv170.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #debian
18:04<ml|>!bomb andrew
18:04*dpkg drops a humongous exploding turd on andrew
18:05-!-geenna [~geenna@host-84-222-241-131.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:05<andrew>its not working
18:05<andrew>i can't get in ubuntu says i need a user name
18:05<themill>andrew: seriously.... #ubuntu on irc.freenode.net
18:06<andrew>no one is there zip
18:06<themill>andrew: on irc.freenode.net.... ffs
18:06<locklace>andrew: ok, try typing "/sign ubuntu"
18:06<locklace>that should help
18:06-!-Piet [~piet@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
18:06<themill>Where there are 1506 people in the channel....
18:07<ml|>yeah ubuntu always has 1000+
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18:08<andrew>nope u lie
18:08<abrotman>andrew: /server irc.freenode.net .. then /join #ubuntu
18:08-!-lukasz [~lukasz@ecv170.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit []
18:08<andrew>on deb ther eone fucker in there
18:08<andrew>ok
18:09<ml|>this happened yesterday i believe
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18:11<andrew>thanks
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18:12<xyem>Okay, now to install the nVidia driver
18:13<ml|>dpkg: tell xyem about nvidia
18:13<ml|>just incase :)
18:14<andrew>usb help needed
18:14<andrew>no a distr ego trip ok ?
18:15<andrew>so ease of on deb rocks more then linux cuase its the same thing now let help each other kay?
18:15-!-Torsten_W [~torsten@erft-5d808e16.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Quit: so, nu isser wech]
18:15<locklace>ok
18:15<locklace>you start.
18:15<themill>andrew: and there are 1500 people in #ubuntu on irc.freenode.net just waiting to hear from you. Now please go there instead.
18:16<abrotman>andrew: we do not support Ubuntu in this channel
18:16<ml|>andrew: debian is not ubuntu, ubuntu does things differently why we tell you to ask in #ubuntu on freenode
18:16<xyem>It'd be a lot better if there was a 3D open source nvidia driver
18:16<abrotman>!noveau
18:16<ml|>xyem: yes
18:16<abrotman>bah .. however you spell it
18:16<xyem>I had some issues with it on Ubuntu ( once I started X, I couldn't go back to terminal for example )
18:16<andrew>same thing give it it up deb/ubuntu say thing sir
18:16<abrotman>!nouveau
18:16<dpkg>Nouveau is a Freedesktop.org project, with the goal of providing open-source 3D acceleration for nVidia cards. Current development status: http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FeatureMatrix http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/ #nouveau @ irc.freenode.net.
18:16<abrotman>yay!
18:16-!-mode/#debian [+o abrotman] by ChanServ
18:16-!-mode/#debian [+b *!*@66-231-196-46.oxfordnetworks.net] by abrotman
18:16-!-mode/#debian [-o abrotman] by abrotman
18:16<abrotman>andrew: you've been silenced for 10 minutes for being offtopic
18:17-!-interbird [~interbird@82-170-215-129.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #debian
18:17<xyem>abrotman, the 'nv' driver gives me 100fps in glxgears.. though that might be because direct rendering seems to be off..
18:18<abrotman>nv doesn't do 3d in any? card
18:18-!-andrew [~andrew@66-231-196-46.oxfordnetworks.net] has left #debian []
18:18<xyem>nv != nouveau ?
18:18<ml|>no
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18:18<xyem>Ahhh
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18:19<ml|>i would like to use nv, but it is slower than nvidia's
18:20<interbird>but do you notice it ?
18:21<ml|>yes or i'd use nv
18:23-!-interbird [~interbird@82-170-215-129.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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18:25<interbird>i mean in practice, not what gears says
18:26<xyem>Gah, m-a wants to download 200mb of stuff
18:27<xyem>Just to install the nvidia driver -.-
18:27<ml|>interbird: in use yes
18:28-!-mlowe [~mlowe@c-98-207-235-53.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #debian
18:29<interbird>ml|: ok, i recently installed a mint-box for a friend using ati and the closed drive gave a higher fps in gears but in practice the open driver performed the same; the closed driver also f**ckedup the dual monitor config so we went back to the open driver. still works like a charm, but this was an ati card
18:30-!-mlowe [~mlowe@c-98-207-235-53.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit []
18:31<xyem>Didn't ATI open source their driver recently?
18:32<interbird>yes, but i read they don't perform well (yet). read it on linux.org or slashdot
18:33<xyem>Well that's enough to make me consider buying an ATI next :-)
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18:33<ml|>interbird: i used nv for lime month, but perfomance X was not good, like slow to change desktops, windows, etc.., then used nvidia and things just runs smoother, like i said I would like to be using nv
18:35<interbird>ml|: like xyem says, and like things are looking now, ati is going to be the linux-compatible card (besides intel); i don't see nvidia opening up their drivers any time soon...
18:35<xyem>Oh bother.. my kernel requirement for my wireless is causing me problems with the nvidia driver
18:35<xyem>Le sigh
18:36<ml|>interbird: yeah that sucks
18:37<ml|>maybe when open ati driver works better will buy a cheap ati card
18:37<interbird>ml|: nvidia may suck but ati going open-source with hardware integration of AMD CPU with ATI GPU cores sounds has a promise...
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18:38<ml|>sounds good, will wait to see it in action
18:40<xyem>How do I install select packages from Sid?
18:40<interbird>in the long run the GPU will be integrated in the CPU, i don't see nvidia making a x86(64) cpu in the near future although they tried...
18:40-!-methodman [~methodman@190.80.224.46] has joined #debian
18:41<interbird>xyem: download from debian.org or change your /etc/apt/sources.list for just the stuff you want. it's not a good idea to mingle sid with stable unless you know what you're doing
18:42<interbird>what sid package ?
18:42-!-compgrokker [~compgrokk@209.188.47.213] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:42<locklace>i'd say specifically avoid changing your sources.list unless you're very sure of what you're doing
18:42-!-omnom [~omnom@cht52-1-88-162-48-204.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian
18:42<interbird>that's what i said...
18:43<omnom>hey guys, my system is missing dm-crypt module
18:43<omnom>cryptsetup fails to open my luks encrypted drive
18:44<omnom>I got a message "sh: /sbin/udevsettle: No such file or directory"
18:44<xyem>interbird, I'm running testing
18:45<interbird>xyem: and what package do you want in the sid-version ?
18:45<xyem>Which doesn't seem to be much newer than stable..
18:45<interbird>which is ?
18:46<xyem>interbird, linux-headers-2.6.29-2-686
18:46<locklace>omnom: yeah, you need a new cryptsetup iirc
18:46-!-tsoporan [~tsoporan@CPE001d7ecc8820-CM00152fc775c8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #debian
18:46<locklace>judd versions cryptsetup
18:46<judd>locklace: cryptsetup -- etch: 2:1.0.4+svn26-1 lenny: 2:1.0.6-7 squeeze: 2:1.0.6-7 sid: 2:1.0.6+20090405.svn49-1
18:46<xyem>interbird, I needed a kernel >= 2.6.27 for my wireless
18:47<omnom>locklace: aptitude says I have the most recent available
18:47<locklace>omnom: the one in sid fixes that problem as i recall
18:47<ml|>xyem: if you really want to do this, a serch on debian forums for mixed testing/unstable system
18:47-!-ed_debian [~ed@d53-56-218.nap.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:48<ml|>dpkg: has factiod about this but don't remember
18:48<dpkg>ml|: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox?
18:48<interbird>xyem: you don't want to mess with kernel-headers unless you have ever compiled a kernel; if you did that once then it is possible to create the most recent kernel available and use that; but.. what wireless are we talking about ?
18:48<ml|>lol
18:49<omnom>is kde4 in testing ?
18:50<xyem>interbird, I need the headers to install the nvidia driver
18:50<ml|>judd: versions kde4
18:50<judd>ml|: kde4 -- experimental: 4
18:50<interbird>nvidia wireless ?
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18:50-!-nimrood [~nimrood@par69-2-82-67-28-1.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:50<xyem>ml|, and if I don't use some unstable stuff, my hardware won't work ( and I'll have to use "old" versions of software )
18:50<locklace>omnom: http://teams.debian.net/lurker/message/20090515.121736.0f7f60c8.en.html
18:50<adb>cemunal
18:50<adb>oops , sorry
18:51<ml|>xyem: it's fine by me
18:51<interbird>xyem: what are you trying to accomplish ?
18:51<xyem>interbird, overall? Getting away from Jaunty ;)
18:51<omnom>weird... The following packages have unmet dependencies: kdebase-bin-kde3: Conflicts: kdebase-runtime-bin-kde4 but 4:4.2.2-1 is to be installed.
18:52<ml|>xyem: like i said search on debian forums for mixed testing/unstable system
18:53-!-tsoporan [~tsoporan@CPE001d7ecc8820-CM00152fc775c8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:53<dmoerner>omnom, kde4 is moving into testing as we sit here, it might take another dinstall run to get everything in
18:54<locklace>hehe
18:54<locklace>omnom, you're the victim of bleeding edge
18:54-!-Piet [~piet@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Piet]
18:54<xyem>locklace, hopefully he has a good dry cleaner in mind
18:54<interbird>Interesting... Already got away from Windows then... Cool ! First time i read a line someone want to get away from one Linux distro to another :-)
18:55<xyem>interbird, yeah, I went Windows free ( on my personal computers ) quite a while ago
18:55<omnom>I certainly don't want to upgrade to kde4, what was the guide to pin kde 3.5 ?
18:55<bzed>getting away from ubuntu towards debian is a good idea.
18:55<bzed>omnom: use lenny.
18:55<xyem>interbird, due to a freak dd accident ;)
18:55<interbird>xyem: ever checked-out linux-mint? http://www.linuxmint.com
18:55-!-m42 [~m42@a81-84-75-63.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving -- real life goes on.]
18:55<xyem>interbird, Mint is based on Intrepid
18:56<xyem>interbird, my father installed it on his laptop yesterday
18:56-!-omgtrash [~w@CPE001cf04a011f-CM00194746df82.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit []
18:56<omnom>bzed: lenny has an outdated cryptsetup preventing me from using my luks drive
18:56<bzed>omnom: what's wrong with it?
18:56<bzed>or what the hell did you do with your drive
18:56<interbird>xyem: mint is ubuntu++ and the rc1 of mint7 (Gloria) is available
18:57-!-Guest2878 [~redeye@d91-128-78-125.cust.tele2.at] has left #debian []
18:57<bzed>omnom: if you really want to stick with kde 3, then backporting a new cryptsetup and whatever else is needed, is probably the more easy task
18:57<locklace>this is the cryptsetup bug: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=525955
18:57<interbird>xyem: and does it work for you father ?
18:57<omnom>"sh: /sbin/udevsettle: No such file or directory" that's what's wrong with it
18:57<xyem>interbird, and I want to get away from Jaunty because it has just been ridiculous issue ( not being able to burn CDs ) to ridiculous issue ( http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1161213 )
18:57-!-DarKwings [~yann@ACaen-257-1-130-147.w90-62.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:57<xyem>And my general hate for GNOME and gvfs has been rising for a while
18:58<bzed>omnom: thats not the version which is in lenny.
18:58<bzed>omnom: the bug talsk about a version after lenny.
18:58<xyem>interbird, yes, it works for him
18:58<bzed>omnom: so I can't see a problem why you should not be ab;e to stick with lenny...
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18:58<omnom>bzed: anyways I'm using and I'm not downgrading to lenny
18:58<locklace>what i don't get about that bug is why the sid cryptsetup hasn't moved into testing yet
18:58<xyem>interbird, at least, he hasn't come to me with any issues since I sorted out his ath5k module
18:58-!-efuentes [~efuentes0@190.148.236.189] has left #debian [Kopete 0.12.3 : http://kopete.kde.org]
18:58<omnom>+squeeze
18:59<locklace>testing excuses says it's frozen
18:59<bzed>omnom: there is *NO* way to stay with kde3.5
18:59<bzed>omnom: or you'll have to stick with todays system for the next years
18:59-!-pirol [~luj@e182010249.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #debian []
18:59<interbird>xyem: i have a different experience; i use gnome and am quite happy with it; like the multiple tabs in nautilus and use gvs with no probs; what wrong with your system? try the RC1 of mint 7, maybe this will work for you
19:00-!-mosno [~mosno@c114-77-13-252.brasd3.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #debian
19:00<locklace>but freezing a package with a critical bug like that seems like a bad idea...
19:00<omnom>bzed: what about pinning kde packages to version < 4
19:00<bzed>locklace: which package is frozen?
19:00<locklace>bzed: cryptsetup, according to testing excuses page
19:00<bzed>locklace: it is not frozen for the next release.
19:01<interbird>xyem: you know how to compile a kernel ?
19:01-!-mode/#debian [+l 395] by debhelper
19:01<xyem>interbird, I use a few programs that don't understand gvfs protocols
19:01<xyem>interbird, I am pretty sure gvfs is the cause of some recent data loss
19:01<bzed>omnom: won't help you. sooner or later you'll have conflicts with new libraries which are pulled in by other programs...and so on
19:01<interbird>xyem: like ?
19:01-!-NCommander [~mcasadeva@cpe-66-65-150-156.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
19:01<xyem>interbird, and I hate how GNOME tries to take over everything
19:01<locklace>bzed: "cryptsetup (2:1.0.6-7 to 2:1.0.6+20090405.svn49-1); Not touching package, as requested by freeze (contact debian-release if update is needed)"
19:02<xyem>interbird, like VLC
19:02<interbird>xyem: vlc is not a gnome program
19:02<locklace>bzed: it's been there for 41 days but is blocked from entering testing
19:02<xyem>Exactly, and that causes issues
19:02<bzed>locklace: cryptsetup builds an udeb. that's why a manually transition is needed.
19:02-!-chomwitt [~chomwitt@ppp-94-69-42-126.home.otenet.gr] has joined #debian
19:02<interbird>VLC has a gnome gui-wrapper
19:03<xyem>For no reason at all ( why not just pass the ~/.gvfs/server/path/to/file ? Is that so hard? )
19:03<omnom>bzed: I just want to get an updated cryptsetup and kde4 coming into lenny prevents aptitude from working
19:03<locklace>bzed: sorry, don't know what that means. just trying to figure out why a udev update was released into testing that totally broke encrypted drives, and the corresponding cryptsetup update is blocked.
19:03<xyem>interbird, and no, I don't know how to compile a kernel
19:03<bzed>locklace: udeb == micro deb == part of the installer
19:03-!-FairyCosmo [~Cossie@p5B23EC26.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
19:04<bzed>locklace: ask in #debian-release whats up with it if you're really interested
19:04<interbird>xyem: i asked because of your question for wireless; and hardcoding a path is no good idea...
19:04<locklace>bzed: i'm not using it myself, but we've had several people run into it here - pretty dumb situation, either udev update should have been held back or cryptsetup update should have gone with it.
19:05<xyem>interbird, I didn't say anything about hard-coding a path
19:05<interbird>~/.gvfs/... is a hardcoded path
19:05<locklace>omnom: anyway, you can "fix" it for yourself by just downloading the sid cryptsetup .deb and installing it with dpkg -i
19:06<xyem>interbird, gvfs mounts can be accessed through ~/.gvfs ( eg. ~/.gvfs/server/path/to/file ) .. but Nautilus doesn't pass that path to applications, it passes the protocol path ( eg. smb://server/path/to/file )
19:06<xyem>Which, if the program is non-gnome, goes "I have no idea what you want me to do with this path, I don't recognise it"
19:07<interbird>xyem: maybe fusesmb is someting you want
19:07<xyem>Try opening an image in your trash with GIMP
19:08-!-ZoRRillo [~angel@89.7.231.77] has joined #debian
19:08<interbird>Try opening it when you emptied the trashcan; that's why it's called a trashcan...
19:08-!-ZoRRillo [~angel@89.7.231.77] has quit []
19:09<xyem>interbird, sure, I can use fusesmb.. and sshfs and whatnot.. but I am a relatively experienced user.
19:09-!-lovetsa [~Ice@213.91.167.113] has joined #debian
19:09<xyem>interbird, are you ignoring my point on purpose?
19:09-!-DSFARGEG [~Meh@c-71-195-23-85.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #debian
19:09<xyem>GNOME does GNOME-only things.. which causes issues and gives *no tangible benefit*
19:09<xyem>Therefore.. it sucks
19:09<xyem>If I wanted that, I'd run Vista
19:09-!-AzaTht [~azatoth@87.96.232.170] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
19:10<omnom>locklace: that's what I was about to do, at first I thought of making a /sbin/udevsettle calling udevadm settle but on second thought it didn't seem to be a good idea
19:10<locklace>omnom: hehe, yeah, already went down that road with someone else
19:10<interbird>xyem: not at all, but your statement about opening a file in the trash makes no sense and blaming non-gnome programs for not handling gvfs makes none too; no offense meant, i just want to help
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19:11<xyem>interbird, how else am I supposed to see if the file I sent to trash is one I actually wanted to delete without opening it
19:11-!-lovetsa [~Ice@213.91.167.113] has quit []
19:11<xyem>interbird, and it makes perfect sense when protocol paths don't provide any benefit over standard unix paths
19:11<interbird>xyem: by restoring it to you desktop; untrashing it...
19:12<xyem>interbird, or, alternatively, *just opening it from where it is*
19:12<xyem>interbird, then if I want to keep it, I restore it
19:12<xyem>interbird, if not, it goes bye bye
19:12<interbird>xyem: the last is your opinion; a virtual fs is because gnome also runs on non-unix systems; hence the need for virtual
19:13<xyem>interbird, doesn't excuse it from passing standard *nix paths when it can so it works with, you know, every *nix program under the sun
19:13<interbird>trying to open a file in the trash is like adding a sentence to a note you threw away
19:14<xyem>interbird, instead of just GNOME ones
19:14<omnom>T_T my brand new testing is gonna regress and lose lots of functionality for the next year until kde4 is more complete T_T
19:14<xyem>Can someone please explain to interbird why you might want to preview a trashed file before deleting it?
19:15<omnom>I kinda hoped kde4 would not hit testing before 4.4
19:15<interbird>can someone explain that if an open-source program does not work the way he wants he has all the resources to change it?
19:15<xyem>Xyem already knows this
19:15-!-mia [~orb@adsl11-163.ath.forthnet.gr] has joined #debian
19:15<xyem>And has done it in the past
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19:17<xyem>speaker-test shouldn't have a lower limit of 50hz
19:17<xyem>My speaker-test binary doesn't
19:17-!-mode/#debian [+o abrotman] by ChanServ
19:18<xyem>It goes at whatever damn frequency I tell it too :)
19:18-!-mode/#debian [-b *!*@66-231-196-46.oxfordnetworks.net] by abrotman
19:18-!-mode/#debian [-o abrotman] by abrotman
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19:20<omnom>xyem: don't bother explaining the shortcomings of gnome, gnome people will just say you're wrong and you can fix it if you want... it hasn't changed a bit since the infamous Linus vs gnome interface nazis discussion.
19:21<omnom>no offense meant
19:21<interbird>xyem: you might want to dive a bit into gconf, there is a commanline tool to set settings in the gnome-registry; once you have made a script to adjust the lower limit you can use that whenever you want; setting a preference the way *you* like it
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19:22<xyem>interbird, don't get me started on gconf
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19:22<omnom>ouch ! each time I hear of gconf I have nightmares of windows registry
19:22<xyem>Or I will start cursing
19:23<amphi>omnom: you're not alone
19:23<xyem>When I delete ~/.evolution I want evolution TO RESET TO "FIRST RUN"
19:23<interbird>the why do you use gnome ?
19:23<omnom>I don't get why anyone would want to hide settings in such a "thing"
19:23-!-midlis [~midlis@static-87-243-204-50.adsl.hotchilli.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:23<interbird>s/the/then
19:23<xyem>Not have to execute some stupid gconf "recursive delete the settings that should be in .evolution" command
19:24<interbird>because we live in a world where the majority of people using a computer don't want to see choises but want it to just work
19:24-!-Garda [~Garda@115.64.160.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:24<xyem>And GNOME doesn't provide that
19:25<omnom>interbird: short answer is I don't use gnome anymore. got bored of being taken for a stupid person by my desktop environment and I was losing my sanity over stuff such as gconf and simple things such as getting the trashcan on the desktop
19:25<interbird>stuff is hidden for the ones that want something different and take the time to find out how
19:25<xyem>Stuff is hidden from the people who want Evolution to go back to "first run" mode
19:26-!-HappyHater [~tim@68-119-200-197.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has joined #debian
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19:26<xyem>And are wondering why the hell the accounts keep coming back despite .evolution not existing
19:26<interbird>stuff is hidden. period.
19:26<xyem>And if I wanted stuff hiding from me, I'd use Windows
19:27<interbird>you miss the gnome point
19:27-!-supaman [~ojs@157-157-15-201.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has quit [Quit: leaving]
19:27<xyem>GNOME doesn't have a point
19:28<xyem>If it did, I'd like to think it would throw itself upon it in *shame*
19:28<HappyHater>I just tried upgrading from lenny to squeeze, I'm getting an error when I try to start gdm about libgtk-2.0-0.so or something not existing
19:28<interbird>then why did kde4 follow gnome is this aspect ?
19:28<EmleyMoor>Is there a way to install the zattoo client on amd64?
19:28<xyem>I didn't say KDE is any better
19:28<xyem>See, GNOME is hiding libgtk from gdm!
19:29<xyem>:D
19:29<interbird>me not too; i just said that kde4 is a major diversion from kde3 in the direction of gnome
19:29<omnom>interbird: what you just said is called a logical fallacy. Besides doing stuff for "most people" means some people are excluded from the deal which is very wrong. do with what we provide and shut up is wrong. switch to advanced mode to unlock advanced features is good.
19:29<HappyHater>its libgtk-x11-2.0
19:30<omnom>HappyHater: I'm using squeeze right now and upgrade is broken at the moment, seems kde4 is getting in right now. things should settle down after a little while.
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19:31<omnom>HappyHater: oh and new version of gnome is also entering testing and might block upgrade for a little while.
19:31<xyem>Oh dear, seems nvidia doesn't want to compile for me
19:32<interbird>omnom: i don't completely follow you; no-one is excluded and i agree with you that exclusion is wrong; but gnome does not dictate that; it just want to 'just work' for everyone and hide the 'powerstuff' for the ones able to find it.
19:32<HappyHater>hmm, so what can I do to get that .so file back so I can get to my desktop at least?
19:33<interbird>xyem: do your kernel-headers coply with your running kernel? (uname -a)
19:33<xyem>interbird, it excludes me from opening files in the trashcan with non-GNOME applications
19:34<xyem>interbird, yes, they do
19:34<interbird>xyem: i'm trying to be of help; why do you put me down ?
19:34<interbird>ok
19:34<xyem>interbird, I'm not.. I'm putting GNOME down :)
19:34<xyem>interbird, with my huge Fluxbox axe... rawr!
19:35-!-azeem-work [~mbanck@pD9E1DAA6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:35<interbird>xyem: and what error does the compile give ?
19:35-!-azeem-uni [~mbanck@pD9E1DAA6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:35<ml|>!bomb GNOME
19:35*dpkg drops a humongous exploding turd on GNOME
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19:35<omnom>interbird: showing/removing the trashcan from the desktop is not powerstuff. and some features are just dropped or not added for these reason. I believe gnome excludes a lot of usage because of the gap between basic usage and finding the hidden stuff. imho hiding and preventing people from using their computer the way they want is not a smart thing and not in the opensource spirit.
19:37<xyem>interbird, the first errors seems to be like "warning: pointer type void * used in arithmetic"
19:37<interbird>omnom: most people are not interested in using their computer to the fullest; they just want it to work. people interested to use their computer to the fullesst will fint the hidden possibilities.
19:37<omnom>anyways enough of this gnome ranting. no need to argue over this old stuff. gnome doesn't suit me I don't use it, if it suits you good for you.
19:37<xyem>interbird, later on, things like "kmem_cache_create() conftest failed!"
19:37<interbird>xyem: a warning is not an error; error messages break the compilation
19:37<xyem>interbird, that is the key point. When I use GNOME, it *doesn't work*
19:38<interbird>hmm, dunno that error
19:38-!-dkr [~dkr@c-98-203-33-10.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:38<xyem>interbird, and sometimes deletes directories on remote machines after a failed transfer..
19:38-!-HappyHater [~tim@68-119-200-197.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has quit [Quit: leaving]
19:38<interbird>try to track in what source file it is in
19:39<omnom>interbird: I'm interested in using my computer the way I want to do stuff I want. gnome doesn't allow this on purpose, so I ditched it for kde which is not perfect but at least allow me to do more stuff I want.
19:39<xyem>Might it be because I am using unstable kernel/headers and testing nvidia-kernel?
19:39<interbird>xyem: the compilation of nvidia removes directories on remote machines? told you so :-)
19:39<xyem>interbird, no, GNOME removes directories on remote machines
19:40<xyem>See my thread over at the Ubuntu forums: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1161213
19:40<xyem>Maybe you could explain the logic of some of the people that responded to that..
19:41-!-mode/#debian [+l 387] by debhelper
19:41<omnom>But you're right, there's a trend going on towards everyday people, I'm starting to feel the computers and internet are being taken from the hands of the kind of people who made it happen.
19:41<interbird>omnom: yes, but you are one that understands more about computers than average people. you want gnome to make it like it works for folks like you and disregard the newbies? then linux-desktop will never happen
19:42-!-CompWizdr [compwiz@d57-64-159.home.cgocable.net] has joined #debian
19:42<omnom>interbird: I never said that, I proposed to make it possible to run it in basic mode or advanced mode.
19:42<xyem>I've just had a genius idea
19:43-!-themill [~stuart@86.53.48.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:43<xyem>How about we make it work for everyone? :O
19:43<xyem>:)
19:44<xyem>What *does* gconf actually attempt to achieve? Other than reminding us of the Windows registry?
19:44<amphi>omnom: if you don't like gnome, why not just not use it?
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19:44<xyem>amphi, a good trait in a person is someone who cares about an issue, even if it doesn't affect them
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19:45<interbird>omnom: propose that to he gnome wishlist i would advise; i understand where you're comming from though but see no problem in enableling hidden possibilities using something like gconf-editor
19:45<xyem>interbird, no, hidden possibilities in plain text files
19:45<omnom>no choice. I've installed gnome on my grandpa computer, and he wants stuff to just work and not getting headaches. he calls me two times a week to help him do some advanced stuff such as putting the trashcan on the desktop.
19:45<interbird>omnom: i like to have a delete entry in my desktop menu, so i enable it in gconf; now i have a script for it; on any new install i run it and sets all my preferences
19:46<xyem>Or you open a text file, and insert a line that says {rm -f} <Delete> ?
19:46<amphi>xyem: who says it's an issue? plenty of people seem to like gnome
19:47<xyem>amphi, plenty of people seem to like Windows
19:47<interbird>omnom: well, you are the one that knows more, learn a bit how to manipulate gconf and yoy can put all your fathers wishes in a scripts that also works on a new installation
19:47<amphi>xyem: and?
19:47<xyem>amphi, Windows sucks?
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19:47<omnom>interbird: problem with gnome right is that it tries very hard to make life easy for some type of usage and incredibly painful for the advanced users. my point is it should make life easy for everyone.
19:47-!-CompWizrd [compwiz@d57-64-159.home.cgocable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:47<xyem>interbird, or he could do it himself using a *text file*
19:48<amphi>xyem: I don't like it, so I don't use it; many seem quite content to use it
19:48-!-moep [~moep@p5B2A4F40.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
19:48*amphi wonders why an 'advanced user' would use gnome at all
19:48<xyem>amphi, doesn't mean you shouldn't point out its flaws
19:49<interbird>omnom: there is no one fit all solution to this; some people can drive a car and some cannot and drive the car onto a bicycle path; there is no uniform solution
19:49<interbird>gnome heads in the right way
19:49<omnom>amphi: to give support to less advanced users because they're not gonna support themselves
19:49-!-Brandon [~WHY@pool-173-51-161-239.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #debian
19:49<amphi>xyem: saying 'windows sucks' isn't pointing out any flaws ;)
19:49<interbird>try to make it work and enable settimgs for advanced users
19:50<xyem>amphi, I do want to go to bed at some point
19:50<xyem>:)
19:51<amphi>I, too, am about to ;)
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19:51<omnom>interbird: it's not that hard to make an adaptive interface relative to the level of knowledge of users. Many videogames includes this kind of thing. It's a matter of providing choice.
19:51<ml|>when i used gnome i had similar issues and like it has being said stuff is hidden, guess what I did
19:51<amphi>ml|: you fulminated?
19:51<xyem>ml|, purged it
19:51<amphi>hurled anathemas?
19:51<ml|>lol
19:52<omnom>interbird: sadly it's not the path gnome people have chosen or any other desktop environment AFAIK.
19:52<xyem>Performed a lobotomy
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19:52<ml|>!purge
19:52<dpkg>well, purge is to completely wipe away a package, including its config files. Use aptitude purge [package] or if you already removed package with apt-get remove, and forgot config files you can use 'dpkg -P <package>' to remove configs. To purge all config files of all removed packages: aptitude purge '~c', or see <confmiss> about restoring individual config files.
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19:52<xyem>Sounds like a good way to get GNOME to do what I want
19:52<interbird>omnom: there are differntly compiled programs for gnome too; ones that include more options; you are not alone in what you think and the beauty of open-source it that someone makes it
19:53<xyem>Question is.. does it purge gconf?
19:53<ml|>no it's in ~
19:53<amphi>heh
19:54<xyem>I am willing to bet that no, no it doesn't..
19:54<interbird>omnom: one example is the gnome-color-chooser; it can set colors that cannot be set with (old) themes
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19:56<omnom>talking about ease of use, most people have better understanding of the file system hierarchy provided by gobolinux than the standard one. http://gobolinux.org/?page=at_a_glance
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19:56<xyem>Gah, now I have no idea what state my nvidia driver is in now
19:57<xyem>It says it failed but there are no errors ( except it can't find nvidia.ko )
19:57<omnom>Would be nice to be provided with a choice of how you want your file system to be organized.
19:57<interbird>ultimately we don't want to know about hard paths, also not about how gobo solves it (very clever i must say); but that's why stuff like virtual file-systems exist
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20:00<interbird>that is a moot point; you can create your onw file hierarchie using (sym)links
20:00<interbird>like gogo does
20:01<omnom>last time I check "most people" had no understanding of virtual file system
20:01-!-phrosty [~phrosty@cpe-75-82-183-88.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
20:01<xyem>Last time I checked, most people have no understanding of computer
20:01-!-manphiz [~dxy@218.244.247.199] has joined #debian
20:02<interbird>well, "most people" use a Desktop that is getting more virtual as we speak; you mean maybe they don't know it's virtual...
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20:03<interbird>and they don't have to; that's the whole point about abstraction
20:03<xyem>interbird, abstraction is so you don't have to worry about what is going on "underneath"
20:03<xyem>This is fine
20:03<xyem>When it works
20:03<duraperidol>howdy
20:04<omnom>and when it provides what you need
20:04<duraperidol>xyem: point well made
20:04<xyem>duraperidol, thanks
20:04<xyem>duraperidol, which point would that be though?
20:04<xyem>:)
20:04<interbird>xyem: no, abstraction is to reach the lowes level in a 'common way' implementable on different platforms.
20:04<xyem>interbird, except abstractions happens at higher levels, not lower
20:05<interbird>that's what i said
20:05<interbird>it is defiend at the highes level
20:05<duraperidol>xyem: your comment at minute 59
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20:05<interbird>it uses a common way
20:05<interbird>to access the lowest parts
20:05<xyem>interbird, no, abstractions provide a common way
20:05<duraperidol>anyone in the mood to play ts?
20:05<interbird>implementation defines the level of reach
20:06<interbird>did'nt i say that ?
20:06<xyem>No
20:06<xyem>You said "uses" a common way
20:06<xyem>Abstractions use lots of different ways to provide a common way
20:06<omnom>the main problem here is that we're building on top of existing software and usage when we should explore new paradigm based on workflow and functionality. I find it odd that modern computing is still getting in the way of what the user wants to do.
20:07<interbird>so, what do you want to do ?
20:08<xyem>Open a file in the trashcan? :)
20:08<interbird>hehe :-)
20:08<interbird>possible with open-source :-)
20:09<xyem>As long as you are not using WinGNOME
20:09<omnom>can you believe we're still doing things with our wimp interface in ways that were devised 40 years ago
20:09-!-xemacs4321 [~mlowe@c-98-207-235-53.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #debian
20:09<xyem>omnom, it is quite weird.. like we haven't moved away from the keyboard and mouse as input devices..
20:10<xyem>omnom, who knows.. aside from direct neural input, maybe they are the best way?
20:10<omnom>hey ! I have a trackpoint here \o/
20:10<interbird>omnom: you are not keeping youself up-to-date; google for ubuntu mulitouchpaths etc; there are some videos on youtube...
20:11<xyem>omnom, though I never close my mind to other possibilities
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20:12<omnom>interbird: multi touch is and old thing reappearing now, search for kevin warwick to get a glimpse of what might come next.
20:12<xyem>Anyway, I should be off.. the clock struck one nearly 20 minutes ago now and I have to be up early
20:13<xyem>And I've developed the ability to turn both my alarms off without waking up..
20:13<omnom>the last time I've seen something innovating, I guess it was sun's project looking glass.
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20:14<interbird>so there is something next? thought you said we still used wimp and nothing was changing...
20:14-!-azeem-un1 [~mbanck@pD9E1EAFA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
20:14<interbird>yeah, i don't think it will be renamed to oracle lg :-(
20:15<omnom>interbird: kevin warwick work is higly experimental and has nothing to do with the desktop.
20:15<xyem>So I bid you all a farewell, thanks for the help and interesting discussion :) Chat to you all soon I hope
20:15<interbird>omnom: like 640k is enough for everybody ?
20:15<omnom>cya xyem
20:15<interbird>of course it has to do with the desktop
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20:16<omnom>interbird: it seems you knoy something about project cyborg that I don't know
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20:17<interbird>maybe i found some hidden stuff...
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20:18<omnom>for some reason, I don't see how controlling a robotic arm through a neural interface connected to internet can have anything to do with the desktop.
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20:19<interbird>well, just brothen your view; think about a neuron cell and an interface, abstraction and control
20:20<omnom>what are you talking about ?
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20:21<interbird>a desktop driven by a neuron cell that learns that you are a more capable use and exposes it's normally hidden possibilities
20:21<interbird>s/use/user
20:22<omnom>you mean a wimp desktop controlled by neural interface ?
20:22-!-kaloyan [~kaloyan@host-12-5-91-128.allegiance.tv] has joined #debian
20:23<interbird>no, text based, commandline... :-)
20:23-!-kaloyan [~kaloyan@host-12-5-91-128.allegiance.tv] has quit []
20:23<interbird>i mean lookingglass with ai
20:23<omnom>I don't know of any work or research going in this direction. this seems purely imaginary
20:23<interbird>having 4G adress-space was imaginairy too some years ago
20:24<omnom>nope, it was too expensive to do and lacking usefulness.
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20:26<omnom>I think the renewal of desktop interfaces might come with quantum computing
20:26<interbird>like it is too expensive to research neuron coupling to electronics today, but tomorrow ?
20:27<interbird>things will change, more people will join building it; that can only happen with os;
20:28<omnom>it's not expensive, it's more that we have no idea how to couple anything to neurons and have almost no understanding of how our neural system works
20:28<chomwitt>i have in my lenny pc linux-image-2.6.26-1-amd64 and linux-image-2.6.26-2-amd64 deb packages installed. Can i remove one of them? Shouldn the one update to the newer one. Both are as i get it security updates.
20:29<interbird>chomwitt: why remove them? they take almost no place and may come in handy some time
20:29<omnom>chomwitt: you can remove the older one, but it's a good idea to keep a few kernels to have a fallback solution in case shit.
20:30<interbird>chomwitt: if you want to remove them. check your running kernel (uname -a) and remove the others with a package manager like aptitude or synaptic
20:31<interbird>but there is no need to do so actually
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20:33<omnom>anyways, I'm off to get some sleep.
20:33<omnom>bye #debian
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20:33<chomwitt>interbird: well. i'm newbie to kernel stuff so i dont get the rationale of having the two packages. Is this a standard procedure , to make a new deb package with a security issue fixed but keeping also an little older version?
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20:34<interbird>chomwitt: the kernel makes the base upon which the rest of your systems runs...
20:34<interbird>chomwitt: it gets started by the boot-loader...
20:34<interbird>chomwitt: which i assume is grub...
20:35<interbird>chomwitt: if ever your running kernel fails, grub offers the possibilitie to boot an alternative (older) kernel...
20:36<interbird>chomwitt: if you remove an older kernel this will not be possible...
20:37<interbird>chomwitt: so, keeping the older kernels is kind-of a fall-back in problem situations; you could login to this channel and ask for help with this kernel you kept as a fallback
20:37<k4b4n4>boa noite
20:38<interbird>buenos noges
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20:38<k4b4n4>alguém pode me ajudar a configurar meu apache2 ?
20:38<interbird>maybe but in english
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20:47<chomwitt>interbird: so we have 2 kernel packages in the stable for falling back politic. And if for e.g a user having stable runs update-manager after some months they will both updated, but the 2.6.26-2 would get the more recent changes and the 2.6.26-1 the almost the sames (not the most most recent (just to be able to fall back a little in case of a problem). Do i get it right?
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20:51<abrotman>chomwitt: they are ABI changes
20:51<abrotman>chomwitt: the -1- is insecure
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20:56<miles_firefox>guys, can u help me?
20:57<bremner>!tell miles_firefox -about ask
20:57<miles_firefox>i have a problem with my video... i have a X1200 ATI card, so i have tried to install by repositories the fglrx... direct rendering is not working.. can anyone halp?
20:57<miles_firefox>Using Squeeze, AMD64,
20:58-!-Caroll [caroll@189.4.49.245] has quit [Quit: quit]
20:58<chomwitt>abrotman: its getting more complex :-) Anyway my question started because a --1-- security update put off my atheros wifi card and had to recompile it although in grub i boot from --2--.
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21:01<bremner>miles_firefox: no idea about fglrx, but did you follow the wiki.debian.org directions?
21:01<bremner>!tell miles_firefox -about fglrx
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21:13-!-LivingSouL [~Anonymous@124.106.236.172] has joined #debian
21:14<LivingSouL>i want to compile programs, how do you install the common compilers with 1 command?
21:15-!-xxiao [18ae75e2@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #debian
21:18<abrotman>!b-e LivingSouL
21:18<dpkg>LivingSouL: Sounds like you need to aptitude install build-essential.
21:18<LivingSouL>ahh, yeah... thanks dpkg! :D
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21:27<k4b4n4>I live Brasil...
21:27<k4b4n4>alguém do brasil ?
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21:30<bremner>!br
21:30<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
21:30<adb>gone already
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21:44<ed_debian>Is there a linux alternative to mac's garage band?
21:45<bremner>How can I tell amarok 1.4.10 what sound device to use (xine engine)? It insists on my usb headphones, but I want the built in intel hda device.
21:48-!-kevin_ [~kevin@98.221.154.4] has joined #debian
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21:49<bremner>ed_debian: not really sure what garage band does, but maybe audacity is of interest?
21:49-!-joe__ [~joe@c-68-51-66-169.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #debian
21:50<abrotman>ed_debian: maybe look at rosegarden
21:50<Pryon>audacity will do the recording/mixing part
21:50<rickbot>or lmms
21:50<abrotman>and maybe hydrogen for drums
21:50<ed_debian>abrotman, "rosegarden" doesn't seem to be in the repos?
21:50<sney>garageband is a recording program with built-in awful synthesizer
21:51<ed_debian>I am trying jokosher I learned about it from google
21:51-!-phrosty [~phrosty@cpe-75-82-183-88.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
21:51<abrotman>ed_debian: yes it is
21:51<Pryon>There are plenty of soft synths. Hook them up to audacity with jack (pulseaudio, maybe?)
21:51<abrotman>or it was ...
21:51<abrotman>j
21:51<abrotman>judd: versions rosegarden
21:51<judd>abrotman: rosegarden -- etch: 1:1.4.0-1 lenny: 1:1.7.0-1 sid: 1:1.7.3-1 squeeze: 1:1.7.3-1
21:52<ed_debian>abrotman, tuche'
21:52<ed_debian>abrotman, It was a typo
21:52<abrotman>touche ?
21:53<rickbot>only problem with rosegarden or most music apps for linux is you need to use the jack sound server - therfore you will need to build a real-time kernel
21:54<ed_debian>abrotman, Yeah that lol
21:54<abrotman>it works without it .. just not as well
21:54-!-adb [~hic@orb-rem-catv-c100-p100.vtx.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:54<ed_debian>abrotman, I can't seem to type very well tonight
21:54<eks>wb rhix
21:55<rickbot>easiest way is to install a multimedia distro like musix etc.
21:55<rickbot>comes with real-time kernel
21:56-!-eks [~dpoirier@S0106001b114a35c2.wp.shawcable.net] has left #debian []
21:56<ed_debian>rickbot, What is a real-time kernel? Besides a kernel that allows for the use of music apps.
21:57<rickbot>low latency
21:57-!-aschuh [~austin@adsl-76-200-141-148.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #debian
21:58<rickbot>the sources are patched with a real-time patch and config'd with real-time pre-emption
21:59<rickbot>this is needed for music stuff like soft-synths etc.
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21:59<ed_debian>rickbot, thank you
21:59-!-aschuh [~austin@adsl-76-200-141-148.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has left #debian []
22:00<abrotman>!studio64
22:00<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, 64studio is a GNU/Linux distribution <based on Debian>, oriented towards audio/video recording and media production. It uses a custom kernel with realtime patches added. http://64studio.com/, #64studio @ irc.freenode.net.
22:00<rickbot>http://pkg-freebob.alioth.debian.org/lowlat.html
22:00<abrotman>ed_debian: ^^ but it's not supported here
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22:11-!-mode/#debian [+l 380] by debhelper
22:11<Zviper>anyone know a web interface to use to manage clients?
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22:17<ootput>which clients?
22:20<Zviper>clients as in customers
22:20-!-ootput [~ootput@ootput.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: leaving]
22:20<Zviper>he didn't like me :(
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22:22<abrotman>Zviper: you mean something like webmin ?
22:22-!-birgit [~birgit@78-23-83-104.access.telenet.be] has quit []
22:22<abrotman>!dtc
22:22<dpkg>DTC is Domain Technologie Control, a GPL-licensed web hosting control panel - http://www.gplhost.com/software-dtc.html
22:22<abrotman>maybe .. not sure what you actually want to do
22:22<Zviper>oh not customers in that respect
22:22<Zviper>i mean
22:23<Zviper>i need a database
22:24<Zviper>to organize clients i have
22:25-!-kamilin [~kamilin@200.35.52.25] has joined #debian
22:25<kamilin>hello
22:26<interbird>clients ?
22:26<interbird>manage how ?
22:26<kamilin>huh?
22:26<kamilin>clients of what
22:27<kamilin>where are ya ppl?
22:27<interbird>like a postgres database with a web-based front-end ?
22:27-!-michelle_ [~michelle@CPE0016b62d114c-CM00152f98d2f0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #debian
22:28-!-LivingSouL [~Anonymous@124.106.236.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:28<kamilin>oh sorry im too nooob
22:28<abrotman>ldap!
22:29<kamilin>huh?
22:29-!-streuner [foobar@p5DD3A3E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:29<kamilin>what is that?
22:29<interbird>like abrotman says, take a look at: http://directory.apache.org/
22:29<abrotman>!es
22:29<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
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22:35<user01_>hmmm anyway to correct pixely looking fonts?
22:35<kamilin>hi
22:35<kamilin>i need som help
22:36<interbird>with what ?
22:36<kamilin>startup programs
22:37<kamilin>i need to set up a program at start up
22:37<interbird>gui or text-modus ?
22:37-!-nml [~nml@97.82.234.159] has joined #debian
22:37<kamilin>i know gui
22:37<kamilin>but ya know is too easy
22:37<interbird>gnome or kde ?
22:37<kamilin>gnome
22:38<interbird>system->preferences->sessions
22:38<kamilin>i know that way
22:38<kamilin>i wanna know by console
22:38<interbird>ok, so what is the problem ?
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22:38<interbird>ok
22:38<kamilin>by init
22:38<kamilin>by runlevels
22:39<abrotman>!run at startup
22:39<dpkg>Make a init script by copying /etc/init.d/skeleton, put it in /etc/init.d/ then install it with update-rc.d, or read /etc/init.d/README, or as a user you can also use a cron entry with @reboot, or add it to /etc/rc.local
22:39<interbird>you can do a global script or a local (for a specific user); which one do you want ?
22:39<kamilin>mm well idk shellscrpt but i can learn
22:40-!-githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #debian
22:40<interbird>abrotman: that is not the same as a script run by /etc/bash...
22:40<nml>quit
22:40<kamilin>somebody told me
22:40-!-nml [~nml@97.82.234.159] has quit []
22:40<kamilin>that scripts come with program files
22:40<abrotman>interbird: he's saying in gnome .. but when it boots .. he's not making sense
22:41-!-Holborn [~holborn@237.Red-217-125-137.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
22:41<kamilin>lol
22:41<kamilin>am i wrong?
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22:42<interbird>kamilin: in this script your home-directory, /home/yourname/.bashrc, you can put start-up stuff...
22:42<ed_debian>kamilin, A script is just a program. It doesn't have to have "program files" associated with it
22:42<interbird>text-modus...
22:43<ed_debian>kamilin, Usually "script" just means a small program but that's really subjective
22:43<interbird>for gnome gui-stuff is the sessions menu i posted
22:43<kamilin>i create a symbolic link at rc local and there i have to put a script
22:43<kamilin>that's what i've been told
22:44<interbird>abrotman: i know, just trying to pin-point what he wants...
22:44<abrotman>probably be easier in his native language
22:44<kamilin>lol maybe
22:45<kamilin>but i'm so noob at this i'm sorry if i'm saying many crazy things
22:45<kamilin>is like sessions menu
22:45<interbird>i've been told that windows is the only os available on netbooks but i don't believe it :-)
22:46<kamilin>but im looking an alternative way
22:46<interbird>global or for a specific user ?
22:46<interbird>and what do you want to start / do ?
22:46<kamilin>well any app at startup
22:46<kamilin>i was trying with amsn
22:47-!-rickbot [~rickbot@bas16-toronto63-1177910101.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:47<interbird>you cannot start gui-apps at the prompt...
22:47<kamilin>and local user
22:47<kamilin>oh
22:47-!-rickbot [~rickbot@bas16-toronto63-1177910101.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #debian
22:47<kamilin>and which one would u advice to me
22:47<interbird>there is no X (gui) running then
22:47-!-adama26 [~adama@dhcp230-47.navigonet.com] has joined #debian
22:47<interbird>kamilin: in this script your home-directory, /home/yourname/.bashrc, you can put start-up stuff...
22:47<kamilin>right that answer some things
22:48<kamilin>the thing is
22:48<kamilin>that i don't knoe shellscript
22:48<kamilin>maybe there's a way without doing sh
22:49<interbird>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_(computing)
22:49<interbird>no
22:50<interbird>linux starts, shells starts, gui starts...
22:50<kamilin>and after gui
22:50<interbird>desktop
22:50<abrotman>BOOM!
22:50<interbird>hehe :-)
22:50<kamilin>u can add startup apps don't u?
22:50<kamilin>and btw my linux teacher says there is
22:50<interbird>yes, just like you
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22:51<interbird>there is what ?
22:51<kamilin>is a way to
22:51<interbird>to what ?
22:51<kamilin>add startup apps without sh
22:52<kamilin>but not the sessions one
22:52<interbird>did your teacher show you how ?
22:52<kamilin>i mean without making a sh
22:52<interbird>did your teacher show you how ?
22:52<kamilin>no his so bad with us he wantys us to search
22:52<interbird>so he did not teach...
22:52-!-tuxwarrior [~ulises@190.87.74.68] has joined #debian
22:53<kamilin>nope
22:53<kamilin>he's a tutor
22:53<interbird>then he is no teacher
22:53<kamilin>yeap
22:53<kamilin>i mean i agree
22:53<kamilin>but life sucks lol
22:53-!-chitchat [~guest@ppp59-167-188-93.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:53<interbird>so, a tutor said something could be done but did not show it ?
22:53<kamilin>yup
22:53<interbird>worthless
22:54<kamilin>he gave us two weeks to find out
22:54<interbird>what was the assignment ?
22:54<kamilin>but i found out the sessions way
22:54-!-rickbot [~rickbot@bas16-toronto63-1177910101.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:54<abrotman>so you're doing his homework ?
22:54<kamilin>well it was to set up an application at start up
22:54<kamilin>lol
22:54<kamilin>i'm pretty curious
22:54<kamilin>to know
22:55<kamilin>im eager
22:55<kamilin>lol
22:55<abrotman>!enter
22:55<dpkg>The enter key is not a substitute for punctuation. Hitting enter unnecessarily makes it difficult to follow what you are saying. Consider using ',', '. ', ';', '...', '---', or ':' instead. If you hit enter too often, you will be autokicked by debhelper for flooding the channel.
22:55<interbird>startup of what? kernel, bash, gdm? desktop ?
22:55<kamilin>okay sorry
22:55<jas>:O
22:55<kamilin>of any application like amsn
22:55<kamilin>or any daemon
22:56<jas>in X
22:56<jas>?
22:56-!-adb [~hic@orb-rem-catv-c100-p100.vtx.ch] has joined #debian
22:56<kamilin>nope
22:56<interbird>a deamon is not a startup proggie, it's a service; that's different from things you run at boot/login...
22:57<kamilin>oh ok sry well is like when u startup windows
22:57<kamilin>many programs run after start up
22:57<user01_>is there something to make my my fonts look clearer in gnome?
22:57<kamilin>when u see the deskto
22:58<interbird>yes, but stuff in RunOnce is different from a service running
22:58<interbird>...
22:58<jas>omg
22:58<user01_>a set to subpixel smoothing
22:58<kamilin>i guess so
22:58<user01_>but still looks pixelly
22:58<kamilin>well did ya get my point?
22:59<interbird>kamilin: but, what you want to do? start iceweasel without bash and X ?
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23:00<kamilin>make an order which starts for example iceweasel or amsn or w/e automatically after gnome starts up
23:00-!-adb [~hic@orb-rem-catv-c100-p100.vtx.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:01<interbird>you can reorder in gnome->sessions; i do not understand what you want to do...
23:01<kamilin>well
23:01<kamilin>it's actually
23:01<kamilin>the same thing
23:01<kamilin>that gnome-->sessions does
23:01<kamilin>but at console
23:02<kamilin>using any command or
23:02<kamilin>modyfing any file
23:02<interbird>kamilin: in this script your home-directory, /home/yourname/.bashrc, you can put start-up stuff...
23:02<kamilin>mm
23:02<kamilin>ok ill check brb
23:03<interbird>am i missing his point ?
23:03<kamilin>nope
23:03<kamilin>you are right
23:03<kamilin>than you buddy :D
23:03<interbird>welcome...
23:03-!-chealer [~chealer@dsl-67-204-18-31.acanac.net] has joined #debian
23:04<kamilin>let's say that
23:04<kamilin>gnome-->sessions way is the easy way
23:04<kamilin>i'm looking for the hard way
23:04-!-methodman [~methodman@190.80.224.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:05<interbird>then just turn off your computer and try to start iceweasel on it; that is a hard way...
23:05<kamilin>rofl
23:05-!-drakeman [~drakeman@190.32.183.34] has joined #debian
23:05<interbird>:-)
23:06<kamilin>anyways i'm thinking that my teacher sucks
23:06<interbird>depends on his assignment to you; maybe he want's you to learn something...
23:07<interbird>(most teachers do)
23:07<kamilin>rofl
23:07<kamilin>yea but he should give some clues
23:07<kamilin>see that as confused as i am lol
23:07<kamilin>i mean you are as coonfused
23:07<kamilin>as i am
23:07<interbird>i am not
23:07<kamilin>oh well
23:08<interbird>i am amused
23:08<kamilin>lol
23:08<kamilin>that's cool i thought i was boring you
23:08<interbird>that comes later...
23:08-!-adb [~hic@orb-rem-catv-c100-p100.vtx.ch] has joined #debian
23:09<kamilin>lol
23:09<kamilin>well i'm not trying to bore ya but learn something i hope in the process u don't get bored lol
23:10<interbird>we are still in process ?
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23:10<kamilin>i am
23:11<kamilin>i will be until i get this
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23:11<interbird>get what? run iceweasel without a gui ?
23:11<kamilin>run iceweasel after gui runs
23:11<xemacs4321>I need help getting my sound to work on squeeze, I have no /dev/dsp, i have installed alsa with module assistand, and have udev system , no /dev/dsp shows with "ls -l /dev/dsp" ? the kernel modulse load, and i have alsa-oss installed
23:11<interbird>sssions
23:11<interbird>eeeeeeeee
23:12<kamilin>is it the only way?
23:12<interbird>no
23:12<kamilin>well i'm lookin for the other way
23:12<kamilin>do u know it?
23:12<kamilin>i mean i bet there are more than one ways
23:12<user01_>by chance is there an citrix xen app icaclient for lenny?
23:12<interbird>you could also disable gdm, start X from /etc/...bash... and run it without "makeup"
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23:13<kamilin>but i dont wanna disable gdm
23:13<interbird>lot's of ways to go from Amsterdam to Paris and stay at the Hilton or not... :-)
23:13<kamilin>lol
23:14<kamilin>i'm looking the code of .bashrc
23:14<interbird>me not too, but sometimes i do;i have to; maintenance...
23:14<kamilin>but i'm not able to add anything because i dont understand it
23:15<user01_>i was just at both amstedam and paris
23:15<user01_>yes there are
23:15<interbird>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_(computing)
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23:15<kamilin>how long do i have to study to get basic shell script knowledge?
23:15<kamilin>i hope less that a week lol
23:16<kamilin>*than
23:16<user01_>mmm my help guide says to use alien to convert a rpm . . . is that sage?
23:16<user01_>safe?
23:16<kamilin>if alien is not from mars oh sure
23:16<user01_>martians arent that bad, racist
23:16<kamilin>rofl
23:17<kamilin>they invade us lol
23:17<kamilin>the chupacabras is martian
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23:18<interbird>how long did it take you to walk or ride a bike when you were young ?
23:19<interbird>that's about the time to learn shell-scripting...
23:19<kamilin>oh really
23:19<interbird>about, not really
23:20<kamilin>right
23:21<kamilin>and do packages include in their files .sh scripts?
23:22<interbird>most open-source packages use shell-scripts to set themselves up, you can extract a .deb and look at it's content...
23:23<interbird>and learn from i
23:23<interbird>it
23:23<kamilin>i installed a package
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23:23<interbird>me too
23:23<interbird>several times
23:23<kamilin>virtualbox
23:24<kamilin>it made what i had to do itself
23:24<interbird>ose or the other one ?
23:24<kamilin>i still wonder how
23:24<kamilin>ose
23:24<interbird>and it works ?
23:24<kamilin>yup it runs a service at startup
23:25<kamilin>related with bridged networking
23:25<interbird>there you go ! things are not as difficult as they seem...
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23:26<kamilin>but i didn't do it
23:26<kamilin>the package did it
23:26<kamilin>i wanna know
23:26<interbird>bridged stuff is not needed in the most recent version of VBX anymore; dunno about the OSE cersion...
23:27<interbird>learn about shell programming...
23:27<kamilin>i will but that's next chapter of class
23:27<interbird>then you can extract a .deb and see what it does
23:27<kamilin>for now were supposed to not know that
23:27<kamilin>okay
23:28<interbird>?
23:28<kamilin>what about .xinitrc?
23:28<interbird>not supposed to know in a learning situation ?
23:28<interbird>what about english and spanish ?
23:28<kamilin>he wants a way according to our knowledge level at this moment
23:29<interbird>what about english and spanish ?
23:29<kamilin>i know both
23:29<interbird>surprise him then and learn about shell and X; maybe you'll graduate !
23:30<interbird>(metaphore)
23:31<kamilin>of course i will
23:31<kamilin>ty for the advice
23:33<interbird>no problemo; take it to hart and try to "out-do" your teacher / tutor; then you will graduate for sure; wishing you that; bye... (getting bored)
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23:37<interbird>A system I upgraded does not boot; it's finds the kernel but cannot find the root-fs; i think i have to regenerate the initrd(ramfs); how can i do that ?
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23:39<kop>interbird : You boot off another media (debian-live cd, install cd, etc.) and run mkinitrd. I always chroot to do this.
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23:40<kop>interbird : I'd bet that re-installing the kernel package after such a boot would do the trick too.
23:40<interbird>kop: Like Knoppix, but how do i regenerate an initrd for this specific kernel ?
23:41<kop>interbird : You tell mkinitrd the kernel version, iirc.
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23:41<interbird>i cannot boot the sys so reinstalling is out of order
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23:42<interbird>yeah, but i'm in knoppix 511 and /lib is mounted to /1/lib; can i override stuff ?
23:43<kop>interbird : You mount all your disks and chroot into what you normally use as / and run mkinitrd in there.
23:44<interbird>that is a good idea! did not think of chroot yet; thanks kop ! I think that will bail me out !
23:44<kop>interbird : It's always worked for me. Ymmv. See also the debian release notes that describe how to recover from such a situation (IIRC) when upgrading from etch to lennyl;
23:44<kop>s/l;/./
23:46<interbird>it's not etch, it's ubbie from dapper to hardy for a friend of mine; all worked but at reboot i got stuck; i pin-pointed it to initrd but i have to regenerate using knoppix; chroot is what i need to do it; slipped my mind! thx!
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23:49<kop>interbird: Ah but bear the below in mind.
23:49<kop>!ubuntu
23:49<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it is unlikely to live up to Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu (irc.freenode.net) instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian>.
23:49<kop>Because it's not the same, you don't know you'll get good advice here.
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23:51<interbird>kop: i know all that; my problem is kernel-based and your chroot option is the one i needed to regenerate the initrd for a different kernel that the running one (knoppix); so i'm sure i'll get it running ! thanks.
23:52<kop>interbird : It's what I'd try.
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23:54<interbird>me too now :-) (Why did not i think of that... :-) My little tow is feeling good about this option and i know it's going to work; i just know... Cool
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---Logclosed Mon May 18 00:00:20 2009