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#debian IRC Logs for 2009-06-23

---Logopened Tue Jun 23 00:00:05 2009
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01:16<Zviper>what's the fastest way to delete a large collection of files? i just did rm -rf /home/.Trash-0/files/* and i have a feeling it's going to take all night
01:17<llutz>look for different, faster filesystem
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01:17<Zviper>i don't understand why deleting takes a long time
01:18<llutz>Zviper: it's the way the fs handles that
01:20<Zviper>llutz: can you come fix it?
01:21<Zviper>haha jokes
01:21<llutz>Zviper: sure, "mkfs.ext3 -m0 /dev/your-home-partition" is much faster ;)
01:22<Zviper>would that erase data on the disk?
01:22<jm_>wait for ext4 or btrfs and it'll be faster
01:22<llutz>well, even creating ext3 is not really fast...
01:22<Zviper>well from what i've read it's buggy
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01:22<llutz>Zviper: no, just create a new filesystem on top
01:23<Zviper>how long would it take to create ext3 you reckon?
01:23<Zviper>or does that depend on the files already on the partition?
01:23<llutz>Zviper: nope, depends only on partition-size
01:24<Zviper>how long you reckon 1.4tb will take?
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01:24<llutz>Zviper: i don't know, would estimate 1-2mins
01:24<llutz>or more
01:24<Zviper>oh so what did you mean by "well, even creating ext3 is not really fast..."
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01:26<llutz>Zviper: according to filesystem-benchmarks i've seen, there are huge speeddifferences in creating a fs, deleting/creating files etc on all those fs
01:26<llutz>Zviper: andcreating ext2/3 takes some time
01:28<Zviper>but you just said it would take 1-2mins?
01:28<llutz>Zviper: use google to find some benchmarks and compare them.
01:29<llutz>Zviper: that is slow
01:30<llutz>Zviper: afaik mkfs.vfat would only need some seconds
01:30<llutz>but it's not a recommended linux-fs ;)
01:31<jm_>actually it can take hours if you use -c switch, which is not that bad of an idea these days
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01:32<llutz>jm_: should the hdd-firmware check for bad-blocks etc which makes -c obsolete?
01:32<llutz>shouldn't
01:33<jm_>llutz: not on its own no
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01:40<llutz>jm_: i mean that feature, smartctl shows in "Reallocated-Sector_Ct"
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01:42<jm_>llutz: yes, you can also tell it to schedule short and long self-tests
01:43<jm_>llutz: but if you run mkfs -c you'll notice it has bad sectors and possibly replace it before it becomes used
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03:05<AndiSHFR>#join #debian.de
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03:09<deepsa>AndiSHFR, no
03:09<deepsa> /join #debian.de
03:15<AndiSHFR>deepsa: Ok, just a try ;-) Just woke up. fingers slower than brain.
03:15<deepsa>12:43pm here
03:15<AndiSHFR>deepsa: CEST +1
03:15<AndiSHFR>deepsa: 09:15
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04:00<Yoda-BZH`Wk>plop/hi
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04:07<grrrrrrrrr>hi, is kde in debian squeeze yet?
04:07<grrrrrrrrr>sorry i should say kde4
04:08<jm_>!info kdebase testing
04:08<grrrrrrrrr>!info kdebase testing
04:08<dpkg>kdebase: (base components from the official KDE release), section kde, is optional. Version: 4:3.5.9.dfsg.1-6 (lenny), Packaged size: 37 kB, Installed size: 68 kB
04:09<dpkg>kdebase: (base components from the official KDE release), section kde, is optional. Version: 4:3.5.9.dfsg.1-6 (lenny), Packaged size: 37 kB, Installed size: 68 kB
04:09<grrrrrrrrr>I thought lenny was stable?
04:09<grrrrrrrrr>not testing
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04:10<jm_>you did?
04:10<grrrrrrrrr>yeah i do
04:11<grrrrrrrrr>how can i check which version of kde is in squeeze?
04:11<jm_>see above
04:11<locklace>grrrrrrrrr: http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/kdebase
04:11<grrrrrrrrr>!info kdebase stable
04:12<dpkg>kdebase: (base components from the official KDE release), section kde, is optional. Version: 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch2 (etch), Packaged size: 40 kB, Installed size: 84 kB
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04:12<llutz>slightly outdated?
04:12<jm_>now that'sgood, p.d.o being ahead of bots
04:13<grrrrrrrrr>ever so slightly
04:13<grrrrrrrrr>I just want jonqueror that dosnt continually crash!
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04:15<jm_>I suppose the mirror dpkg's using is not up to date
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04:27<Nazcafan>hi
04:27<Nazcafan>I have an issue
04:27<Nazcafan>sometimes I get very strange messages, and certain apps won't start
04:28<Nazcafan>yesterday it happened with iceweasel and epiphany
04:28<locklace>could you be a little more vague
04:30<Nazcafan>locklace, wait a minute, I am trying to recover the error message, yesterday I could solve it by reinstalling the xulrunner package
04:32<Nazcafan>what happened is I noticed that iceweasel wouldn't start from the menu or an applet
04:32<Nazcafan>so I invoqued it from the CLI
04:32<Nazcafan>I got this message:
04:32<Nazcafan>Inconsistency detected by ld.so: ../sysdeps/i386/dl-machine.h: 618: elf_machine_rel_relative: Assertion `((reloc->r_info) & 0xff) == 8' failed!
04:33<jm_>this might mean you have hardware problems if it only happens sporadically
04:34<Nazcafan>so I installed epiphany, only to discover that it yielded the exact same error message
04:35<Nazcafan>I suspected that an underlying package had gone corrupt, and I tried to reinstall xulrunner, this made them work again
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04:36<Nazcafan>jm_, I also suspect a hardware problem, and since reinstalling xulrunner seems to have solved the problem, I suspect a hardware failure
04:36<Nazcafan>I mean a hard DRIVE failure
04:36<jm_>Nazcafan: yeah do some memory and disk tests to start with
04:36<Nazcafan>right
04:37<jm_>Nazcafan: drive failure would be spotted in logs, check kernel messages when it happens
04:37<Nazcafan>jm_, what utilities should I use to proceed?
04:37<jm_>Nazcafan: memtest86+
04:37<jm_>or memtest86
04:38<Nazcafan>should I start it from a live CD?
04:38<jm_>it will add itself to boot menu so you can start it there
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04:46<Nazcafan>jm_, and how do I test the hard drive?
04:47<jm_>Nazcafan: badblocks/smartmontools, but like I said, logs/kernel messages will show drive errors
04:48<Nazcafan>jm_, I checked them, no drive errors
04:48<Nazcafan>or at learst I couldn't find any
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04:50<jm_>Nazcafan: so it's unlikely to be that
04:51<Nazcafan>jm_, so you suspect RAM, logically
04:54<locklace>well, as the first step you want to check the integrity of the files in question
04:55<Nazcafan>I am going to reboot so I can perform the memtest
04:56<Nazcafan>then I'll check the hard drive
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05:31<Nazcafan>I installed memtest86+ but it doesn't show up in the grub menu
05:31<Nazcafan>it should, right?
05:32<llutz>Nazcafan: only when enabled in menu.lst
05:32<jm_>ahh it only works for grub2, you need to enable it for grub1 or somesuch, check README.Debian
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05:34<Nazcafan>jm_, llutz , got it thanks
05:34<Nazcafan>should work, now
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05:37-!-mode/#debian [+o Myon] by ChanServ
05:37-!-mode/#debian [-MRo Myon] by Myon
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05:39<Flakk>Hello people. Does anyone have an experience wuth Ekiga Softphone services - I mean calling ordinary phones from a PC?
05:39<petemc>you need a sip provider
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05:41<dmhelpme>we we
05:41<dmhelpme>quanti user
05:41<dmhelpme>siete italiani ?
05:41<EmleyMoor>!it
05:41<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
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05:42<dmhelpme>ok tanks!
05:42<Flakk>petemc: yes I know - they recommend one "the diamond card". I was just asking to understand whether all this really works, before pying the diamondcard services
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05:42<jm_>someone said something for me but I missed it :)
05:42<hamsand>i can come back this channel! yes!!
05:42<petemc>10:34 < Nazcafan> jm_, llutz , got it thanks
05:42<EmleyMoor>hamsand: I don't see why not - unless you do something really bad!
05:42<jm_>thanks
05:42-!-xei [~noname@141.19.96.229] has joined #debian
05:43<petemc>Flakk: i cant speak for that particular provider, but yes, the technology works
05:43<Flakk>EmleyMoor: I actually had a problem joining debian 10 minutes ago: there was a message saying"you need to register". If I am here now, that is because I have joined "help" first
05:43<themill>EmleyMoor: I think #d has been "registered users only" for most of yesterday thanks to some bot and troll fun
05:44<Flakk>petemc: do you use it?
05:44<EmleyMoor>themill: I see
05:44<dmhelpme>ok write it in English thanks to google (because few Italians
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05:44<themill>Flakk: no, the modes were changed about 5 minutes ago: [10:37] *** Myon sets mode: -MRo Myon
05:44<petemc>Flakk: not really, have done in the past
05:44<hamsand>Myon said "I removed +MR from #debian" in #debian@irc.freenode.net
05:44<Flakk>petemc: with ekiga?
05:45<petemc>amongst others
05:45<Flakk>themill: ok maybe 4 minutes; did not check the watch
05:45<hamsand>oh no, in #debian-ops@irc.oftc.net
05:45<EmleyMoor>ekiga is a good softphone
05:45<themill>Flakk: you joined the channel about 30s after that restriction was lifted.
05:45<Flakk>EmleyMoor: do you use it now?
05:46<Flakk>themill: the ops know all!!
05:46<EmleyMoor>No but only because I've mislaid my USB sound card
05:47-!-mode/#debian [+l 329] by debhelper
05:47<dmhelpme>knoppix3.3 (installed on hd P200 mhz) (and a debian based) as I do to not to do at every turn off fsck brutal?, tune2fs and my solution?
05:47<EmleyMoor>Besides the SIP stack on my N95 works OK
05:47-!-padski [~padski@nat66.mia.three.co.uk] has joined #debian
05:47<jm_>themill: do you know what channel mode was set before that?
05:48<themill>jm_: +ntcMRl 320 according to my join line this morning. (I presume oftc has a different meaning to +M to the one that I expect...)
05:49<dmhelpme>how to eliminate the annoying Control + D to reboot! do it automatically reboot fsck can do?
05:49<Flakk>actually if there is somebody using ekiga at this moment I would like to make a phone call to him just to see whether it works (PC to PC, not to a real phone), but it seems nobody uses ekiga...
05:50-!-bo [~bo@84-72-174-245.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #debian
05:50<jm_>themill: thank you
05:50<padski>Today, I'm looking for a browser that can pan, scroll and zoom by touchscreen gestures in the main window like opera mobile.
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05:51-!-db is now known as Guest564
05:52<Guest564>i have a question, does propolice hardening reduce exposer to code exec or is it just an optional extra.
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05:53<Myon>dmhelpme: you want an automatic fsck at reboot?
05:54<d-b>ah damn wrong channel.
05:54<petemc>dmhelpme: knoppix 3.3, besides not being supported here, is very old
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05:55<dmhelpme>yes or eliminate fsck power of brutal event!
05:55<locklace>that sounds like a revolutionary war cry
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06:02<Myon>dmhelpme: touch /forcefsck
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06:05<mihkel>Hi, Todays updates brought in nautilus and metacity (squeeze), but now there is a problem.When I maximaze a window, part of it will be hidden behind gnome panel
06:05<mihkel>http://imgur.com/6TmG9.png iceweasel
06:05<dmhelpme>how to eliminate the annoying Control + D to reboot! do it automatically reboot fsck can do?
06:05<dmhelpme>it possibile ?
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06:07-!-mode/#debian [+l 335] by debhelper
06:07<dmhelpme>and can delete or fsck? (Do not do it to shut down every brutal)
06:07<locklace>dpkg: eliminate fsck power of brutal event!
06:07<dpkg>locklace: i haven't a clue
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06:08<dmhelpme>I have to remove fsck? by force? removing the package?
06:08<dmhelpme><locklace> ????
06:09<locklace>!confuse dmhelpme
06:09<dpkg>No, how are our gerbil tomorrow, dmhelpme? Lederhosen of the People's Republic of Tibet with extra cheese.
06:09<themill>dmhelpme: perhaps you are looking for FSCKFIX=yes in /etc/default/rcS
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06:12<dmhelpme>sorry I thought it was a linux command I had seen that the reference was to a user
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06:14<hajoucha>re
06:14<hajoucha>I was disconnected, so ... was there any response to my tightvncviewer question?
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06:15<jm_>mihkel: this is a known bug
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06:16<jm_>#533917
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06:19<mihkel>jm_, ok. Thanks
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06:23<ml|>any reason to switch to grub2?
06:23<petemc>progressivism
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06:23<Maulkin>It's not grub 1?
06:24<jm_>ml|: if you hate documentation for packages then by all means switch to it
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06:25<ml|>jm_: what do you mean by that?
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06:26<jm_>ml|: it has no documentation ;)
06:26<berto>ml|: support for EFI
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06:27<petemc>refit ftw
06:27<ml|>ah, just wondering why one would use grub2 over legacy grub
06:27<ml|>refit does work nicely on macs
06:27<jm_>if you want graphics
06:28<petemc>its not limited to macs is it? its for any machine using efi?
06:28<jm_>there were patches for grub1 to do that too, no idea if debian uses them
06:28<petemc>its true that i use it on a macbook..
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06:29<ml|>petemc: don't know anything else that uses efi
06:29<jm_>luckily
06:29<petemc>do you know any machines that use efi tho?
06:30<jm_>itaniums use it I think
06:30<berto>apple pcs
06:30<berto>ah, you already said that
06:31<ml|>and i'm fine with legacy grub just wondering, thanks
06:32<ml|>jm_: btw i like documentation and don't need pretty graphics :)
06:33<jm_>ml|: it also supports loop "mounts"
06:34<ffws>refit works well but you still need mbr tables for grub1, with grub2 you could use gpt tables and so have no limit on the number of partitions
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06:39<igsen>Installed iftop and find out many intruders in my system. how can I go ABOUT THIS???
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06:39<igsen>its crippling my network connectivity.
06:40<igsen>I'm a newbie to linux networking, need help!!!
06:41<petemc>shutdow
06:41<petemc>n
06:41<petemc>take machine offline
06:41<igsen>petemc , and then
06:41<petemc>reinstall from known good media
06:42<petemc>reinstall and restore from known good media i should say
06:42<petemc>but if you've no data to restore dont worry about the second bit
06:42<igsen>after I reinstal, what to do so as not to repeat this
06:43<ml|>what did you do for this to happened?
06:43<petemc>i dont know what you did, it should require a bit of effort to make a recent debian install easily compromised
06:44<igsen>nothing, just upgrading and installed many packages from different sources
06:44<ml|>what changes did you make to system?
06:44<ml|>hah different sources hmmm
06:44<petemc>does w show users logged in?
06:44<igsen>like installing gtk2.0
06:44<themill>"from different sources" *shudder*
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06:46<ml|>only use debian packages and you will be fine
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06:46<igsen>I have them in my iftop they are many like 190.196.23.164
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06:46<igsen>ok I'll shutdown and reinstall
06:46<petemc>igsen: that could be connections
06:46<petemc>not actual people on your machine
06:47<igsen>petemc, so what do you suggest now?
06:48<petemc>learn to use the tools you're attempting to use
06:48<igsen>ok, i'll shutdown first and reinstall.
06:49<petemc>you may be jumping the gun, but ok
06:49<igsen>petemc, is there any alternatives on your mind?
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06:50<petemc>igsen: w, last, check your logs
06:50-!-malkkis [~malkkis@88-148-239-64.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #debian
06:50<ml|>are you torrenting or the like
06:50<petemc>make sure you at least partly comprehend what you're looking at before making rash decisions
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06:51<igsen>petemc,ml, yes I used torrent deluge, which I installed from synaptic
06:51<hajoucha>how do I tell aptitude _not_ to install "recommended" by default ?
06:51<hajoucha>?
06:51<igsen>petemc, I'm absolute newbie..
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06:52<jm_>hajoucha: options or config file
06:52<ml|>igsen: then those are problably that torrent connections
06:52<jm_>APT::Install-Recommends "false";
06:52<hajoucha>ěč
06:53<hajoucha>oops...
06:53<hajoucha>jm_: thanks
06:53<igsen>ml|, so how can I get rid of them?
06:53-!-FairyCosmo [~Cossie@p5B23C005.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian
06:53<igsen>ml|, any suggestions before I reinstall?
06:54<ml|>stop using torrent app, and check again with iftop, maybe even logout/login
06:54<igsen>I have completely removed my deluge.
06:55<ml|>no harm in using torrent
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06:56<igsen>ml|, petemc, what are the "log files to check for?
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07:08<ml|>dpkg: wb
07:08<dpkg>thanks, ml|. It's good to be back.
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07:44<balazsbela>hello all
07:45<balazsbela>I updated the kernel and now my mic won't record, I can hear it in the speakers, it's set to capture in the mixer
07:46<balazsbela>but after I use arecord -r 44100 -c 2 -t wav file.wav
07:46<balazsbela>aplay file.wav ends instantly
07:46<balazsbela>it doens't record anything
07:48<hajoucha>balazsbela: is the size file.wav nonzero or zero?
07:49<hajoucha>balazsbela: I suppose you have your alsamixer setting done?
07:49<balazsbela>44 bytes
07:49<balazsbela>regardless of how long I record
07:49<hajoucha>balazsbela: the mic jack is in the right hole...?
07:49<balazsbela>yes, I can hear it in the speakers
07:49<balazsbela>I'll paste alsamixer output
07:50<balazsbela>err amixer
07:51<balazsbela>http://pastebin.com/m1a619515
07:52<balazsbela>I suspect a codec problem
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07:52<balazsbela>the same thing happens when I skype test call, regardless of how long I recorded, it ends instantly
07:55<g1234>HI people I have just installed lenny and have some problems with audio input. for example while makong phone calls with skype i hear the voice, but on the other end they do not hear what I say. I thought it could be skype-specific, but i have the same problem with ekiga: the test recording fails. I do not have a dedicated sound card, and use what is provided by my motherboard: asus P4c800-E deluxe. Any help?
07:58<jm_>heh funny that two people with the same problem ask about it in 8 minutes
07:59<g1234>observe also that 8 = 2^3
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08:17<supaman>hey, I am having trouble with X, when booting up using the 2.6.29 my X freezes, but it runs ok (slow, uses a lot of CPU, but still runs) when booting using 2.6.26 kernel ... any ideas on how to debugg this one?
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08:18<supaman>my graphics card is an onboard intel 82865G graphics controller
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08:20<supaman>my xorg.conf file contains almost nothing, except three lines about Section Device
08:20<jm_>the joys of high quality open source drivers
08:21<supaman>well ... it used to work pretty well, until about 2 months ago
08:22<jm_>I've seen cases in debian BTS where people were tol dto switch back to XAA method
08:22<supaman>XAA ?
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08:23<jm_>acceleration method
08:23<supaman>ok
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08:24<supaman>ok ... I think I will take this to the debian-user mailing list ... perhaps this is a bit more trouble then irc can solve ;)
08:24<sanchith>would this be the right place to ask about an issue on lenny and gdm?
08:25<jm_>!tell sanchith -about ask
08:26<sanchith>I am not sure if screen resolution has anything to do with it but I cannot login using GDM into desktop
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08:27<jm_>why not?
08:28<sanchith>It seems to accept my credentials but the terminal shows up tty1 and then the login screen again
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08:28<sanchith>can't even login to failsafe gnome but xfce works fine
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08:29<jm_>so impatient
08:29-!-chitta is now known as sanchith
08:30<jm_>check gdm log and ~/.xsession-errors
08:30<sanchith>actually I joined from a different computer so that I could get any logs or such
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08:30<sanchith>@jm_ Ok
08:33<sanchith>gdm log says caught signal 11. Server aborting
08:33<jm_>that means a crash
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08:37<sanchith>right now I'm logged in xfce. Should I be looking for anything specific in xsession-errors?
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08:39<supaman>when X crashes but the system doesnt, is there some magic sysrq sequence (ctrl-alt-Fx doesnt work) that takes you to the command line and gets the keyboard working again?
08:39-!-Laney is now known as Guest580
08:39<jm_>supaman: usually not, but if your kernel has sysrq support enabled you might be able to reboot it etc.
08:40<supaman>jm_: ok, thanks
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08:40<jm_>sanchith: signal 11 means application crashed, did you check BTS?
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08:41<sanchith>I din't realise it would have anything to do with X. I did however check for bugs related to gdm
08:41<sanchith>couldn't find any
08:44<jm_>well does it say it's gdm that crashes or the session it tries to start? I'd say it's more the latter since it can start xfce
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08:47<sanchith>are you asking about the gdm logs or xsession? gdm log says that it tried to start X but the server aborted
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08:47<sanchith>xsession-errors has a bunch or warnings about xfce
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08:47<sanchith>I can provide the logs if you want to take a look
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08:48<Akimarf>hello hi
08:48<jm_>try to paste both on some pastebin (/msg dpkg paste)
08:48<Akimarf>hello all *
08:49<Akimarf>i search a nagios chatroom
08:49<themill>!nagios
08:49<dpkg>Nagios is a popular open source computer system and network monitoring application software. It watches hosts and services that you specify, alerting you when things go bad and again when they get better. Packaged for Debian as nagios3 (lenny, etch-backports) and nagios2 (etch). http://www.nagios.org/faqs/ #nagios on irc.freenode.net.
08:50<petemc>probably #nagios on freenode
08:50<Akimarf>thank you
08:50<Akimarf>!nagios
08:50<dpkg>Nagios is a popular open source computer system and network monitoring application software. It watches hosts and services that you specify, alerting you when things go bad and again when they get better. Packaged for Debian as nagios3 (lenny, etch-backports) and nagios2 (etch). http://www.nagios.org/faqs/ #nagios on irc.freenode.net.
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08:55<leonardo_>hola
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08:56<sanchith>jm_ sorry. Shoud I try using this command < /msg dpkg <log lines?>
08:56<leonardo_>estoy preparando un server...y tengo algunas consultas para el particionado....alguien me podria ayudar?
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08:57<jm_>sanchith: this is a command for your IRC client so that dpkg will tell you how to do it
08:57<jm_>!es
08:57<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
08:57<hajoucha>where is a good place to put local start-up script in debian?
08:57<jm_>hajoucha: /etc/init.d or see /etc/rc.local
08:57<leonardo_>Thanks. sorry! .-
08:57<leonardo_>bye!
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08:59<jm_>sanchith: i.e. literally type "/msg dpkg paste"
08:59<sanchith>got it!
09:00<k-man__>how do i list the builddeps for a package?
09:00<jm_>k-man__: check .dsc files for it
09:00<themill>k-man__: apt-cache showsrc packagename
09:01<jm_>doh, much quicker
09:01<k-man__>can aptitude install builddeps?
09:01<themill>in lenny, yes
09:01<jm_>yup
09:01<k-man__>how do i do it?
09:02<themill>dpkg: tell k-man__ about package recompile
09:02<hajoucha>jm: thanks
09:02<sanchith>jm_ I think I did something stupid. I pasted the entire log output in dpkg window!
09:03<jm_>sanchith: hopefully it ignored it all
09:03<k-man__>thanks themill
09:03<sanchith>it also said I was a moron :)
09:03<themill>sanchith: dpkg will probably just call you a moron a few times and perhaps put you on /ignore
09:03<themill>(it might be right!)
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09:04<jm_>sanchith: you need to paste it in browser
09:04<sanchith>browser? I am using chatzilla. din't get any prompt
09:05<jm_>then you didn't understand what dpkg told you
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09:06<sanchith>this is what I got when I tried "/msg dpkg paste"
09:06<sanchith>to(dpkg) paste
09:07<jm_>careful pasting here
09:08<supaman>if anyone has any idea about this problem, let me know: http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2009/06/msg01602.html
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09:10<themill>!wb judd
09:10<dpkg>O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay! judd has returned!
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09:12<sanchith>I just uploaded them to www.sanchith.in/logs
09:13<k-man__>how do i enable debug symbols when compiling a package from source?
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09:23<sanchith>jm_ did you get the logs?
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09:23<zxd>hey
09:23<supaman>k-man__: with gcc, use the -g option
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09:26<k-man__>is there a man page for ulimit?
09:26<weasel>it's a shell built-in
09:26<weasel>so ask your shell's manpage
09:26<k-man__>weasel: ah, thanks
09:26<weasel>the systemcall is setrlimit()/getrlimit()
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09:27<zem>hi, is "apt-get dist-upgrade" all i have to do to upgrade from lenny to squeeze (after modifing sources.list)?
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09:27<k-man__>so if i want to modify a ulimit for a process prior to executing that process.. do i just call ulimit with options, then call the process?
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09:29<supaman>!tell zem about lenny->squeeze
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09:33<enouf>themill: good job, it's about time! (judd)
09:33<themill>enouf: thank stew, not me.
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09:34<enouf>ahh .. i keep forgetting :-)
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09:34<enouf>ou just wrote the thing, but he's got the On/Off switch :-P
09:34<enouf>s/ou/you
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09:38<nataraj>Hi
09:38<nataraj>need to get X work on lenny on Arm9 SBU
09:38<nataraj>(==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Thu Jan 1 02:03:28 1970
09:38-!-Yoda-BZH`Wk [~yoda@LAubervilliers-153-52-31-185.w217-128.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian
09:38<nataraj>(==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf"
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09:38<nataraj>(EE) FBDEV(0): FBIOBLANK: Invalid argument
09:38<nataraj>getting this
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09:39<nataraj>using fbdev
09:40<posse>Where can I find help with questions regarding HID-management in linux? I'm trying to read data from a bluetooth-hid and a get some sort of hidraw-devices in /dev/. What is a hidraw-device and why do I get theese? If this not is the right forum, any suggestions where to ask?
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09:42<stew>enouf: i wrote it, then themill added stuff to it. A client of mine who hosts the box for me unfortunately has an on/off switch
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09:51<posse>No suggestions about my earlier question regarding HID-management and hidraw-devices?
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09:59*arw hello people
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10:26<interbird>Hi all, there is this nasty problem with gnome-terminal (2.26) run as (gksu) root not able to connect to gnome-session-manager. For now I recompiled it and commented-out the exit, but that leaves me with tabs not working. I've googled a lot on this problem but did not find a solution yet. Does anyone know of a better work-around then what I did ?
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10:28<interbird>I know the problem is not Debian specific and is Gnome upstream, non-the-less...
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10:32<jthomas_sb_>there may be a #debian-gnome channel to ask in, interbird
10:33<interbird>jthomas_sb_: Ah, thanx, will ask there...
10:34<interbird>no-one on that channel ? (/j #debian-gnome) ?
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10:35<petemc>!gnome
10:35<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, gnome is a Desktop Environment ("DE", so are <KDE> and <XFCE>) based on GTK+ - see http://www.gnome.org/ To get GNOME, ask me about <install gnome>. See also <gnome status>. http:/wiki.debian.org/Gnome #gnome-debian on irc.gnome.org.
10:35<interbird>ah, other server. thx petemc
10:35<jthomas_sb_>odd, there is a #debian-kde
10:35<jthomas_sb_>on this server
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10:36<interbird>yes, kde is here, strange indeed
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10:45<valdyn>interbird: why would you need to run the terminal as root?
10:46<valdyn>interbird: you should not ever run something as root that you dont have to anyway
10:46<interbird>valdyn: i'm not a virgin
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10:47<valdyn>interbird: harldy an excuse
10:47<interbird>valdyn: then let's i want to because i want to edit fstab and other sys-files, *my* way
10:48<interbird>s/let's/let's say/
10:48<valdyn>interbird: i dont know your way
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10:49<interbird>myway is open root terminal, start mc and edit
10:49<valdyn>interbird: thats stupid
10:49<valdyn>interbird: su and sudo are made for this purpose
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10:50<interbird>valdyn: thanks for your nice comment, but let me decide what is stupid on my system please. Systems i install for friends etc use sudo.
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10:52<themill>interbird: why wouldn't you just sudo mc? or su -c mc? There's no need to actually run gnome-terminal as root to be able to do the things you describe.
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10:53<bremner>or just su within a terminal
10:53<valdyn>or just use profiles
10:54<themill>I'd almost be surprised if mc didn't have an "edit as root" option that means you don't even have do that
10:55<interbird>well, because i want to have a root terminal with gksu, which worked and now with 2.26 does not anymore, white this problem is more that 3 months old. let's not discuss how many (safe) alternatives there are please. this is a way a use on a box of mine, it worked before and is broken now and i want it fixed.
10:55<valdyn>interbird: no its not broken
10:55<interbird>yes it is
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10:56<bremner>interbird: file a bug upstream?
10:56<valdyn>interbird: the method to do this is there, you just want to achieve a stupid method to achieve something that can be achieved with a better method
10:56<themill>interbird: I'd be tempted to put "if (id == 0) exit 1;" in the code.
10:56<interbird>it's the same d-bus problem as in februari
10:56<valdyn>interbird: if you use profiles it *looks* just the same for you
10:56<interbird>bremmer: the bug has already been files months ago by several people
10:56<valdyn>interbird: but the terminal does not run as root, which it should not ever
10:57<bremner>interbird: so you want debian to fix upstream's bug? that doesn't seem fair
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10:57<valdyn>uh, this is not a bug as far as i am concerned
10:57<interbird>bremner: no, please read upstream where i acknowledged that is is not a debian prob ^
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10:58<interbird>i just wanted to know if anyone here had a better solution than what i did
10:58<bremner>interbird: ok, great. So we all agree. Can we move on?
10:58<valdyn>interbird: i told you the better solution
10:58<bremner>interbird: it sounds like no-one has a solution you like better
10:58<valdyn>interbird: but step by step: edit your profile, select "custom command", enter "gksu bash"
10:58*themill warms up the "notabug" and "wontfix" stamps
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10:59<jthomas_sb_>what would i need to play quicktime .mov video files?
10:59<interbird>let's move on then
11:00<valdyn>jthomas_sb_: just mplayer
11:00<simNIX>or maybe vlc
11:00<jthomas_sb_>within firefox? currently its launching Kaffeine but then it doesn't play
11:00<valdyn>jthomas_sb_: that wasnt your question
11:00-!-rC_Croft [~eric@c-47bbe355.025-19-73746f29.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #debian
11:00<jthomas_sb_>you're correcty, it wasn't
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11:01<valdyn>jthomas_sb_: mozilla-mplayer maybe
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11:09<Brutusayres>teste***
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11:09<interbird>valdyn: Just curious, if it's not a bug, should not the entry "Applications->Accessoires->Root Terminal" be removed from Debian Gnome ?
11:09<Brutusayres>hello galera
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11:10<themill>interbird: I'd be happy with that (unless it was actually running gksu bash inside a user-owned terminal)
11:10<valdyn>interbird: yea, thats a fucked up way
11:11<valdyn>interbird: it should use a profile that runs a root bash inside the non-root terminal
11:11<jthomas_sb_>mozilla-mplayer worked, thanks valdyn
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11:11<interbird>themill: gksu /usr/bin/x-terminal-emulator is what it does
11:11-!-ml| [~ml@c-98-211-162-162.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #debian
11:11<themill>interbird: yeah, just looking at that. yuckiness.
11:11<valdyn>interbird: but actually i dont like the idea of a root shell at all, but thats only me
11:12<interbird>ahh :-)
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11:12<bremner>valdyn: I think the security of sudo versus a root shell is not 100% clear
11:12<drakeman>hi people!
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11:12<petemc>bremner: what?
11:12<valdyn>bremner: that is why i consider this part a matter of my personal taste
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11:13<valdyn>bremner: but bash running as root while the terminal app is not makes no functional difference
11:13<bremner>valdyn: agreed
11:13<interbird>it does, for X
11:13<petemc>its hardly security per se, but the ease with which you can make mistakes
11:13<valdyn>interbird: try the profile thing
11:14<bremner>petemc: not to use as a regular shell, obviously
11:14<interbird>valdyn: yes
11:14<valdyn>interbird: i think it will prompt you for each tab, but thats all
11:14<interbird>nope, it cannot find X because there is no DISPLAY var
11:15<interbird>same as with su and su -
11:15<valdyn>interbird: sudo works
11:16-!-superjet_busy [debian-tor@7GDAAAWKC.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
11:16<interbird>valdyn: now if i were a *new* user of debian lenny, root terminal works, now i upgrade to testing and it is broken; see my point ?
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11:17<valdyn>interbird: sure, non working menu entry is a bug
11:17<bremner>interbird: testing is not stable, for one thing
11:17<interbird>bremner: i know, but if this would still be in squeeze once released then some things got passed QC...
11:17<interbird>QA
11:18<bremner>interbird: fair enough
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11:19<valdyn>interbird: looks to me like gnome-terminal needs to talk to polkit
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11:19<ml|>you guys talking about root terminal in a de?
11:20<bremner>ml|: ja
11:20<valdyn>ml|: in gnome
11:20<interbird>valdyn: it uses gnomeping to contact d-bus afaik; this prob has happened before and was fixed; guess it has to do with lot's of stuff using d-bus more and more...
11:21-!-dr|z3d [~dr|z3d@659AAARG8.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:21<ml|>ah, why not use su in any terminal?
11:21<ml|>bremner: valdyn thanks
11:21<interbird>more to type :-(
11:21<valdyn>interbird: yea, polit is supposed to control dbus access
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11:21<ml|>interbird: hah 'su'
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11:22<interbird>ml|: once root access is granted, a next one does not ask for the password... (yes, i'm lazy :-)
11:23<interbird>(gksu timeout)
11:23<ml|>interbird: but why keep it open if you don't need it all the time, you can also use screen for this
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11:24<interbird>ml|: i need it all the time because i need it to access several partitions with different installs and use scripts to 'sync' then with stuff i do...
11:24<interbird>s/then/them/
11:25<ml|>ok
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11:28<interbird>screen is cool as is dvtm
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11:33<themill>interbird: btw thanks for prompting me to fiddle with my konsole config on my laptop -- I now have a profile for a root terminal mapped to Alt+R that even has a different icon in the tab, different shaded background and uses cached credentials if available.
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11:34<interbird>themill: profiles are cool, you can also set the title, but i guess you know that
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11:36<interbird>ml|: message from the past :-) i solved my time-problem, with "red cheeks..."; turned-out i was on local-time and not utc. :-(
11:37<themill>interbird: that's actually done by my bash PROMPT_COMMAND ($TTY:user@host/$PWD yadda yadda) and similarly with the tab name (host:`basename $PWD`). And picks a pseudorandom colour for the tab based on the hostname of the machine.
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11:38<ml|>!congratulate interbird
11:38<dpkg>Huzzah interbird, you did it!
11:38<evolabo>hello
11:38*interbird is blushing...
11:38<ml|>hehe :)
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11:39<themill>I could have sworn I asked about UTC=yes more than once.... :P
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11:40<interbird>I guess you did, but i was kinda focussed on ntp not syncing; my fault, should have checked that rightaway...
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11:40<interbird>Sill, it was nice living in the future... :-)
11:41<themill>heh
11:41<ml|>hah
11:42-!-kilpis [~erich@dhcp-kilpis-1.mobile.helsinki.fi] has joined #debian
11:42<interbird>well, now at least i learned how to get back to the future...
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11:43<ml|>if it where that easy ;)
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11:44<interbird>you don't know what i saw there... :-)
11:45<interbird><video> was implemented and Theora got a stronghold, or am i just wishing...
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11:46<ml|>if you want that go back to the future
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11:48<bremner>interbird: I use sudo with root password for the same effect
11:48<interbird>nah, i'll wait for it; seems everytime you get a glimp it changes because you glimpsed...
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11:49<interbird>bremner: I think we've been here; Gnome->Applications->Accessoires->Root Terminal is broken in Debian Gnome; either it must go or get fixed...
11:50<interbird>(testing/2.26)
11:50<bremner>sure, whatever. You were complaining about su, I suggested a fix for that specific complaint
11:51<interbird>i was not complaining about su but about gksu /usr/bin/x-terminal-emulator not working
11:52<interbird>try that in a user-terminal then you see what i mean
11:52<bremner><interbird> ml|: once root access is granted, a next one does not ask for the password... (yes, i'm lazy :-)
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11:55<interbird>bremner: the problem is in the gnome-terminale code; it does not access d-bus; the Root Terminal in Gnome 2.26 does not work anymore; I know how to work around it, like may options valdyn suggested; fact of broken Gnome AppStarter remains... Agree ?
11:55<lavamind>hello, using Git, is it possible to do a merge that does everything except merge the log messages from the remote branch into the current branch?
11:55<interbird>s/may/many/
11:56<interbird>(Gnome upstream; it's also in Ubuntu and deravatives)
11:56<fsaenz>I'm having some trouble with cups and a Xerox 3200 printer. No matter which driver I try, from the ones supplied with debian to the .ppd's from Xerox, all I can print is gibberish starting with !PS-Adobe-3.0. Any help ?
11:56<ml|>interbird: did check you bts and if there is one add your 2 cents
11:57-!-zem [~voodoo@78-0-200-92.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #debian
11:57<ml|>s/check you/you check/
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11:57<interbird>fsaenz: How well is your printer supported under linux/cups? http://openprinting.org/printer_list.cgi
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11:58<kapil>fsaenz: perhaps your printer is not set up properly (at the printer end)?
11:59-!-Yonut27 [~yonut2@96.49.113.89] has joined #debian
11:59<fsaenz>interbird, it says "mostly" in green, and I've tried the drivers recommended on that page to no avail
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12:00<evolabo>hello, somebody know about bash programming handbook
12:00<kapil>fsaenz: i think the language setting should be pcl5 or postscript at the printer end
12:00<fsaenz>kapil, the printer works fine in windows
12:00<fsaenz>kapil, there's no config for postcript at the printer's end
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12:00<evolabo>i want construct pipeline in basch
12:00<interbird>ml|: yes, checked also many gnome forums; someone even said it was not resolvable but i doubt that as this problem happened before
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12:02<gsimmons>lavamind: Try asking in #git on irc.freenode.net.
12:02<themill>dpkg: tell evolabo about bash
12:02<Yonut27>Using Lenny with kernel 2.6.26-2-686 and when I plug in my usb drive formated to ext3, I get the following error: kernel:[61323.540341] journal commit I/O error. How can I fix this problem?
12:02<kapil>you can connect to the printer with http://ip.add.re.ss/ and check the settings
12:02<lavamind>gsimmons, ok thanks
12:02<fsaenz>kapil, i'm using it via USB
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12:03<kapil>fsaenz: ah. usb. i've never done that.
12:03<interbird>evolabo: echo "one two three" | sed 's/two/TWO/'
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12:05<evolabo>interbird: what does "sed" mean?
12:06<locklace>!sed
12:06<dpkg>hmm... sed is a stream editor that can perform text transformations a file or a pipeline. It's not that easy to learn but it's a very powerful tool once you have mastered it. See http://sed.sf.net/ for detailed documentation, books, scripts, etc. Also ask me about <sed tutorial>. For advanced sed help, /join #sed (irc.freenode.net).
12:06<interbird>evolabo: try man sed it can search for strings and change them (for starters), the | is the pipe symbol in bash
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12:07<Yonut27>hello?
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12:08<locklace>!greet Yonut27
12:08<dpkg>Moo, Yonut27
12:08<interbird>!moo
12:08<dpkg>mooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I'm a cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass. I'm a cow, you could be too; join us all! type apt-get moo. aplay /usr/lib/openoffice/basis3.0/share/gallery/sounds/cow.wav
12:08<Yonut27>Using Lenny with kernel 2.6.26-2-686 and when I plug in my usb drive formated to ext3, I get the following error: kernel:[61323.540341] journal commit I/O error. How can I fix this problem?
12:08-!-lavamind [~lavamind@64.235.209.187] has left #debian [Quitte]
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12:09<locklace>Yonut27: sounds like a drive problem. try blanking it or a low-level format, testing it, then making a new filesystem on it
12:09<interbird>Yonut27: seems the fs on your stick is 'dirty', what /dev/sdbX is the stick on? (mount -l or lsscsi)
12:10<Yonut27>what about the cfdisk vs fdisk?
12:10<Yonut27>sdb1
12:10<interbird>fsck /dev/sdb1
12:10<interbird>fdisk -l then
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12:14<evolabo>well, can I with "sed" command send the output of analysis to an other analysis
12:14<interbird>cfdisk and fdisk are for partitioning, fdisk -l will show the (sdb1) on your stick, lsscsi will show the stick as an usb-storage device; fsck /dev/sdb1 will check the fs and after it completes you might be able to use it by reinserting it
12:15<interbird>evolabo: what do you want to accomplish ?
12:15<jmichaelx>currently i have 2 workspaces showing in the pager in gnome 2.24 in squeeze, using compiz. i would like to have 4 workspaces showing, but when i right-click on the pager, there is no option for setting the number of workspaces. would anyone here know how to do this?
12:15<bja>evolabo: sed will edit your output to your liking, whatever you do with it is something completely appart
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12:16<jmichaelx>well, i guess it's part of gnome 2.24 and part 2.26
12:16<Yonut27>interbird: yeah, fsck says it can't read the superblock. I will have to try and reformat again. Is there a complete tutorial out there, as the one I used before doesn't not work consistently?
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12:17<interbird>Yonut27: No important data on the stick ?
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12:17<Yonut27>oh yeah, I will have to run it over to my windows machine an grab what hasn't been backed up
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12:17<evolabo>i see, what sed do
12:18<interbird>Yonut27: ext3 on windows? not a good idea
12:18<interbird>you use the ext3 driver for windows ?
12:18<Yonut27>well there is a program that seems to work most of the time...
12:18<Yonut27>yup
12:18<interbird>ahh, why not use fat32 ?
12:19<interbird>or ntfs ?
12:19<Yonut27>cause I want a the one drive i us all the time on a linux native fs, because NTFS was terribly slow.
12:19<interbird>rule is: trust linux with windows but not windows with linux
12:19<Yonut27>ahhhh ok
12:19<Yonut27>so then I might have to go with fat32
12:20<kapil>interbird: rules is really "don't trust windows at all!" :-)
12:20<interbird>kapil: so much true ! (alas)
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12:23<shortspecialbus>hi, I'm having issues getting xscreensaver to start up along with gdm. Anyone able to help?
12:23<evolabo>can I use command bash in others scripts
12:23<evolabo>?
12:23<interbird>Yonut27: fat32 is the most common fs also used by camera's etc; nowadays linux can also use ntfs for reading and writing but i don't know if the ntfs versions used in vista or win7 pose problems, so, fat32 might just be the safest way to go if you must use the stick with windows
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12:24<kapil>evolabo: bash can be used to run scripts if the script starts with "#!/bin/bash" on the first line.
12:24<interbird>evolabo: what do you want to accomplish ?
12:24<jmichaelx>currently i have 2 workspaces showing in the pager in gnome 2.24/26 in squeeze, using compiz. i would like to have 4 workspaces showing, but when i right-click on the pager, there is no option for setting the number of workspaces. would anyone here know how to do this?
12:25<interbird>jmichaelx: use compiz-settings
12:25<jmichaelx>interbird: ty
12:25<interbird>jmichaelx: generaloptions->desktop size tab
12:26<evolabo>I have tow programs that perform analysis in text files, but I want take them and perform other analysis with an other program, but the text files are so much.
12:26<interbird>jmichaelx: virtual-desktops are handled differently between metacity and compiz
12:27-!-mode/#debian [+l 389] by debhelper
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12:27<evolabo>I want program the computer to do all analysis
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12:28<interbird>evolabo: so, you want to merge the output from the two and feed them to a third? does the third take text-files as input? do you know the format ?
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12:28<shortspecialbus>anybody? xscreensaver and gdm?
12:28<evolabo>I know the formats
12:29<shortspecialbus>aside from interbird :)
12:29<evolabo>and the outputs of each analysis come with the correct format
12:29<jmichaelx>interbird: thx again
12:29<interbird>evolabo: then sed and awk are your friends but you have to learn them
12:29-!-arthurfurlan [~arthurfur@201.21.136.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:29<evolabo>thank you
12:29<interbird>man sed
12:29<interbird>man awk
12:30-!-HellDragon` [jd@modemcable178.248-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: until death we seek destruction]
12:30<interbird>man cut
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12:30<evolabo>with these commands can I carry out the analysis
12:30<shortspecialbus>maybe, depending on what analysis you want to do
12:31<ml|>!man
12:31<dpkg>[man] a little guy that knows everything about linux... just do man <commandname> and he will teach you all about <commandname>, a Municipal Area Network (city), or check ASD at http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/asd/
12:31<interbird>with these commands you can translate text-files to the format you want to feed to the third one
12:32<interbird>man stands for "manual"
12:32<fsaenz>for reference, the fix for the Xerox 3200 MFP printer was to download an ugly 42MB package from xerox.com which did ugly unspecified things to my pristine Debian, one of which was to install a non-PS cups driver (after throwing up several errors). Ugly, but worked fine...
12:32<interbird>info is it's gnu sister
12:32<shortspecialbus>if you go crazy piping them all into each other you could accomplish the same thing in a perl script, which may be slightly less confusing. maybe.
12:32<ml|>hehe, i like that factio :)
12:32<evolabo>i will study them
12:33<jmichaelx>interbird: interestingly, the compiz settings manager will not let me select the number of desktops. the slider will not move, and if a different number is entered manually, it just reverts to 1 anyways
12:33<evolabo>thank so mucho, i need to go
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12:33<interbird>fsaenz: next time when you buy a printer, look at http://openprinting.org/printer_list.cgi first
12:33<cahoot>jmichaelx: disable compiz - set the workspaces in standard gnome - enable compiz?
12:34<jmichaelx>cahoot: i'll give it a try
12:34<fsaenz>interbird, the list says it's supported fine, and supplies drivers that don't work. I've tried them all before resorting to the proprietary driver
12:34<cahoot>jmichaelx: pure specualtion
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12:34<interbird>jmichaelx: are you using compiz as the window-manager? install "fusion-icon" and select compiz as the window-manager
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12:36<interbird>fsaenz: hmm, i could not find the x300 there, but maybe i looked too fast; if cups does not support a printer "out-of-the-cups-box", that's a printer i would not buy...
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12:36<jmichaelx>interbird: cahoot: i have tried all of these things. using metacity, i do have 4 workspaces enabled. yes, i am using the fusion-icon
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12:39<interbird>fsaenz: fwiw, http://localhost:631/ is the link to access cups using the browser
12:39<fsaenz>interbird, so would I, but I didn't buy it, I was just tasked with "making it work"
12:40<fsaenz>interbird, yes, I know, I changed every setting there, tried every driver, etc.
12:41<fsaenz>thanks for the help people, you pointed me in the right direction, but this was not a Debian/cups problem after all
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12:42<interbird>jmichaelx: it the "horizontal virtual size" in compiz... you cannot move the slider or enter a number there ? (compiz-settings)
12:42-!-hinge_cut [~hinge_cut@219-84-6-171-adsl-tpe.STATIC.so-net.net.tw] has joined #debian
12:42<interbird>the printer was not powerd on ? :-)
12:42-!-everton [~everton@189.24.161.89] has joined #debian
12:44<jmichaelx>interbird: i couldn't earlier, but now it appears to be working. with all the fiddling i did, i am not sure what made the difference. thx for the help
12:44<interbird>np
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12:45<everton> tgggg
12:45<interbird>jmichaelx: sometimes restarting compiz solves issues with settings...
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12:47<stuckey>Hello
12:47<interbird>hi
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12:51<interbird>cahroot: fwiw, the workspaces in compiz and metacity are not related, especially not the number of them
12:51<cahoot>ok - never touched the stuff
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13:07<everton> hi
13:09-!-balazsbela [balazsbela@86.126.242.9] has joined #debian
13:09<everton>could someone help me?
13:10<bja>!ask
13:10<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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13:18<everton>ok
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13:19<everton>i have a debian in a virtual machine 5.0 , and i want to download the samba but i cant get it
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13:23<bja>!br
13:23<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
13:25<ffws>!apt
13:25<dpkg>APT is the Advanced Packaging Tool, a package management system used by Debian and its derivatives. There is no apt program per se; APT is a C++ library of functions that are used by several command line programs for dealing with packages, most notably apt-get, apt-cache, and aptitude. see also <apt-get> <apt-cache>, or http://algebraicthunk.net/~dburrows/blog/entry/apt-system-diagram/
13:25<ffws>everton: ^
13:25<everton>yeap
13:25<everton>tell me
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13:31<enouf>stew: (concerning judd) ahh.. i recall that host issue now - apologies, and thanks to both you and themill for writing and expanding it's capabilities
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13:37<Marxist>How do I install firefox on Debian?
13:37<craigevil>Marxist: use iceweasel
13:38<Nemoder>!why iceweasel
13:38<dpkg>Due to Mozilla logos licensing, Mozilla software isn't DFSG-free, so Debian distributes Mozilla software with different logos. One day Mozilla Corporation decided to revoke the agreement to let Debian use Mozilla trademarks, so Debian changed to non-trademarked product names. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation_software_rebranded_in_Debian for more information. Ask me about <dfsg>.
13:38<ml|>dpkg: tell Marxist about iceweasel
13:38-!-Chrono [~chrono@189.35.186.80] has joined #debian
13:39<Chrono>Hello guys, i have compiled and installed Octave 3.2 on my Debian Lenny AMD64. It was just for learn. how to uninstall it?
13:40<ml|>Chrono: reverse what you did
13:40<Chrono>make install > make remove?
13:40<Marxist>Oh, I use propreatary drivers, why would I want iceweasel then?
13:41<craigevil>Marxist: because its the same damn thing as firefox
13:41<craigevil>Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.0.11) Gecko/2009061319 Firefox/3.0.11 (Debian-3.0.11-1)
13:41<ml|>and it's packaged for you
13:41<Chrono>But i dont have it anymore, ill have to make it again and then make remove?
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13:41<Marxist>No firefox on repositories?
13:42<craigevil>Chrono: the readme should tell you how to remove it
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13:42<Chrono>Marxist Iceweasel IS firefox
13:42<ml|>Marxist: read above and dpkg i seat to you
13:42<ml|>s/seat/sent
13:42<Maku>hello, is it possible to get console working on widescreen resolution?
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13:43<Marxist>Why people waste their time making the same software the two different names?
13:43<Marxist>with
13:43<dkr>Marxist: laws
13:43<ml|>read
13:43<ml|>Marxist: if you want to use firefox then use it
13:44<Marxist>How do I install it?
13:44<ml|>dunno i use iceweasel :)
13:44<dkr>Maku: there is a way to put console into a different video mode, never tried it and ahving trouble remembering though
13:44<craigevil>google there are many howtos, you dont really install it you just unpack itand link the plugins
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13:45<ml|>Maku: are asking about tty?
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13:45-!-johns [~user@fencepost.gnu.org] has joined #debian
13:45<ml|>hah
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13:48<Marxist>It's very funny see people caring about trademark on free software when they don't care about trademarks on propetary software. Or just don't care about use close software... 0_o
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13:48<mantral>for all Ampache users in Poland: complete translation ready to download from: http://ampache.org/bugs/ticket/492
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13:50<craigevil>Marxist: many people do care and only buy a computer that uses free drivers,as for non-free the only things on my system are Flash and Java and if it wasnt for my kids i wouldnt use those
13:50<ml|>Marxist: why are you making this difficult just use iceweasel
13:51<Marxist>ml|, difficult is don't ship firefox as well.
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13:51<ml|>Marxist: no it's no read above
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13:52<Marxist>craigevil, if you use flash just keep using firefox
13:52<israelord>hi there
13:52<ml|>s/no/not
13:53<bja>Marxist: Iceweasel == firefox just different names
13:53<israelord>i have a little problem when debian boots up... it freezes after it activates swapfile
13:53-!-jpablo [~chatzilla@190.248.12.2] has joined #debian
13:53<craigevil>Marxist: NO there isnt a single app on my system hasnt came from a debian repo, you can use whatever you want
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13:54<israelord>can anybody help me with that?
13:54<craigevil>if you want firefox rather than iceweasel then use it, no one will stop you or care
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13:55<israelord>iceweael is fine... all firefox plugins an add-ons works perffect
13:55<ffws>bja: and different icon ;)
13:55<bja>ffws: yea which is not the strong point for iceweasel (beeing extremly sincere)
13:55-!-s1taxe [~s1taxe@213-245-79-104.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #debian
13:55<Bunnyh>Are there any incompatibility issues when using firefox and iceweasel (though not at the same time) with the same profile folder?
13:55<s1taxe>Bonjours
13:55<Marxist>I will not waste my time using the same software with another name.
13:56<Bunnyh>It seemed to worked fine as I just tested, but I wouldn't like to screw up my profile later
13:56<Marxist>Just the original one.
13:56<bja>dpkg: tell s1taxe about fr
13:56<dr|z3d>Bunnyh: Shouldn't be a problem.
13:56<s1taxe>thank's
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13:57<ml|>Bunnyh: make a backup just incase, which you *should* be doing anyways
13:57<craigevil>the problem with using both fireofx and iceweasel and using the same profile comes when firefox gets updated before iceweasel, especially major changes like 2.0>3.0>3.5
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14:02<Marxist>craigevil, then it is _not_ compatible like people tell...
14:03<interbird>What about using the -P flag for iceweasel and firefox, giving them each their own profile ?
14:03<craigevil>interbird: thats works just fine i did that for a year after iceweasel came out just to try the two never saw any difference
14:03<Marxist>interbird, what about I don't know how to build it from the source?
14:04<ml|>interbird: good idea that should work, like craigevil just said ;)
14:04<craigevil>Marxist: http://lmgtfy.com/
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14:05<interbird>sorry, just came back from shopping and read about 10 upstream lines
14:05<interbird>Marxist: what about it? ff or iw ?
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14:07<vimpulse>hi all. I'm using Sid and a -686 kernel on a modern computer. IIRC when I installed virtualbox-ose it pulled in some kernel modules and a -486 kernel. Why did it pull in the -486 kernel?
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14:08<vimpulse>It also pulled in virtualbox-ose-modules-2.6.26-2-486
14:09<interbird>dunno, 2.2.29 ose modules are in sid afaict
14:09<zem>vimpulse: i remember i had to manualy install 686 modules for virtualbox, i guess it just asumes 486 kernel for some reason (that was on lenny thou)
14:10<interbird>what does your uname -a say ? (should be 2.6.29)
14:10<vimpulse>oops no I am on squeeze/sid.
14:10<vimpulse>mainly squeeze -- I pull in packages from sid only for gnash and swfdec.
14:10<interbird>squeeze != sid
14:10<vimpulse>sorry for the wrong question.
14:10<interbird>what kernel ? (uname -a)
14:11<vimpulse>the kernel I usually use is Linux pequeno 2.6.26-2-686
14:11<vimpulse>today I booted into Linux pequeno 2.6.26-2-486 #1 Thu Mar 26 00:13:41 UTC 2009 i686 GNU/Linux
14:11<interbird>ahh
14:12<interbird>486?
14:12<vimpulse>I installed virtualbox yesterday.
14:12<vimpulse>interbird: yes. I was wondering for a minute today why htop only showed 896MB RAM before I did more research and learned my -486 kernel was built without Highmem support. :)
14:13<vimpulse>zem: it is the same even nowadays on squeeze. I looked at the control file and couldn't figure it out.
14:13<vimpulse>*debian/control
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14:14<interbird>when you install virtualbox ose, it checks the kernel you are running and installs it's modules according to that kernel; if you boot another kernel on the same sys, you have to installe the matching vbox ose modules also
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14:15<interbird>/etc/init.d/vboxdrv setup will recompile the modules for your running kernel; providing you installed them
14:16<vimpulse>When I installed virtualbox-ose, I was running a -686 kernel. But it pulled in a -486 virtualbox-ose modules package, and I think a -486 kernel though I'd have to check my logs to be sure. Just like in http://bugs.debian.org/520716.
14:17<zem>vimpulse: just install 686 modules manualy in synaptic/aptitude/apt/whatever_you_use
14:17<vimpulse>Ah, now that I see that bug, I see the explanation too. Baumann explains in http://bugs.debian.org/520716#10, "virtualbox-ose recommends virtualbox-ose-modules, virtualbox-ose-modules-2.6.26-1-486 is alphabetically the first package that provides virtualbox-ose-modules, and virtualbox-ose-modules-2.6.26-1-486 depends on linux-image-2.6.26-1-486"
14:17<interbird>version 1.1.6 ?
14:17<interbird>(vbox ose)
14:18<vimpulse>interbird: no, 2.1.4-dfsg-1 which I think is the current one in squeeze
14:19<interbird>kee
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14:22<interbird>personally, some things should not be in the repository, vbox ose is one of them, another one is eclipse; they are far more easy to install from the creator's site and more up-to-date from that
14:23<panthera>certainly not.
14:24<interbird>like eclipse 3.2 in sid ?
14:24<panthera>everything that is *not* in ftp.debian.org is definitely not easier to install than what is outside of the archive.
14:24-!-kolby [~kolby@sutv-wgtn-cm-63-173-38-240.sutv.com] has joined #debian
14:24<interbird>3.4 is current and all you have to do is untar, why make it a (badly maintained) package in debian ?
14:24<panthera>second, virtualblox-ose is updated quickly in sid.
14:24<interbird>eclipse is, for sure
14:25<panthera>i don't use eclipse.
14:25<interbird>ahh
14:25<ml|>interbird: why not, whether you chose to use the repos or not it's your choice
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14:26<panthera>interbird: you made a general statement (easyness) which is always wrong, and another one about current versions, which is vor vbox not true.
14:26<interbird>ml|: it makes no sense to put eclipse in the repository and never maintain it; especially since it runs with an untar and start-the-prog
14:26-!-hever [~hever@95.222.100.243] has joined #debian
14:26<panthera>interbird: that holds true regardless if i use eclipse or not.
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14:27<vimpulse>interbird: You said (edited by me) that when I install virtualbox ose, it (aptitude?) checks the kernel you are running and installs (pulls in?) it's modules according to that kernel. Are the parenthetical bits I inserted correct?
14:30<interbird>vimpulse: you seem to be running multiple kernels with the same userland; cannot give you a 'final' answer; but installing and app like vbox ose when running a 486 kernel will pull in 486 modules; and then booting a 686-kernel, these modules will not be usble
14:30<stuckey>How do I keep my irc session from logging out; I leave the computer on, come back 24 hours later and I'm no longer "stuckey" but "stuckey_".
14:30<stuckey>Is there a way I can stay logged in?
14:30<interbird>/etc/init/d/vboxnet setup might help you
14:30<ml|>interbird: if i see a version in the repos that is too old i have the choice not to use it and eclipse is not the only app that is not well maintained. that doesn't mean it should not be there
14:31<vimpulse>interbird: I installed it when running a 686 kernel. It pulled in a 486 kernel. The bug I quoted gives you independent confirmation of that by somebody other than me. (I am Jason Spiro and did not file that bug.)
14:31<ml|>stuckey: walk away from the computer ;)
14:31<vimpulse>interbird: :-)
14:32-!-grochap [~grochap@189.105.96.53] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
14:32<interbird>ml|: i partly agree, were it not that eclipse evolves quite rapidly and works without any major efforts from a tarball; but maybe you have a point, just not mine
14:33-!-bcochofel [~bcochofel@adonis.iportalmais.pt] has left #debian [Leaving]
14:33<interbird>put eclipse in the repos? then maintain it
14:33<Marxist>this iceweasel thing is really stupid
14:33<Marxist>hheheh
14:33<vimpulse>interbird: if you use a tarball, then for one thing, aptitude full-upgrade won't update the tarball.
14:33<vimpulse>Marxist: yes. :/
14:34<ml|>interbird: it does suck when you use an app and it's not well maintained :(
14:34<Marxist>wake up, nobody really has a free system
14:35<Marxist>and being complaining about it is stupid
14:35<bja>Marxist: But everyone has a functional one and people complain when it is not :)
14:35<ml|>look who's talking ;P
14:35<ml|>Marxist: ^
14:35<bja>Marxist: freedom is something you exercise :)
14:36<interbird>Open your eyes, Marxist
14:36<And1>It's real fun to read those Marxist arguments and statements. =)
14:36<ml|>haha
14:36<Marxist>they just complained with firefox because it's easy to repack it
14:37<interbird>you cannot repack ff
14:37<interbird>as ff
14:37<cahoot>Marxist: is iceweasel/firefox a really great issue for you?
14:37-!-zem [~voodoo@78-0-200-92.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Quit: leaving]
14:37<Marxist>cahoot, yes
14:37<Marxist>completly non-sense
14:37<vimpulse>Marxist: why?
14:37<vimpulse>Marxist: i just accepted it and moved on.
14:37<cahoot>Marxist: you know it's a matter chewed to death?
14:37-!-Yonut27 [~yonut2@96.49.113.89] has left #debian [Leaving.]
14:38*bremner would like to make the 1h anniversary of this very important discussion
14:38<bja>Marxist: Have you tried diff with both sources, its a fresh new aproach :D
14:38<And1>Well, then just create a symlink called firefox and change the iceweasel-icon with the one from firefox.
14:38<cahoot>reminds me of the Parrot sketch
14:38<ml|>Marxist: get over it, things won't change unless mozilla changes the rights to icons
14:39<interbird>Mozilla says: It's free but we don't want it recompiled and named it FireFox because we cannot guarantee it's correctness; fair enough i guess; So, IceWeasel got born...
14:39-!-zem [~voodoo@78-0-200-92.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #debian
14:39<interbird>Like Chrome and Chromium from Google
14:39-!-themill [~stuart@86.53.48.59] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:39<interbird>(and more to come?)
14:40-!-deepsa [~deepsa@59.95.170.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:40<Marxist>Recompile Debian with another name( exactly the same ) is legal?
14:40<interbird>Nope, debian font you cannot use
14:40-!-themill [~stuart@86.53.48.59] has joined #debian
14:40<koollman>it's mostly legal.
14:40<bja>Marxist: take a look at the license :)
14:40<koollman>look at all the debian derivatives :)
14:41<ml|>heh yeah
14:41<interbird>You cannot recompile Debian and call it Debian; that's the issue...
14:41-!-deepsa [~deepsa@59.95.170.184] has joined #debian
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14:41<Marxist>Gotcha you, then why ff ppl needs to accept this bullshit and debian ppl not?
14:41<koollman>Marxist: hmm ... I don't see the point
14:42<ml|>Marxist: you got it backwards
14:42<interbird>backwards, yes
14:42<bja>Marxist: Check ff license,
14:42<interbird>1st there was, then there was...
14:42<koollman>Marxist: there's a protected name, that applies to a specific product. that's all. if it's not that exact product, you can't use the name because someone doesn't want you to.
14:43-!-vev [~vev@athedsl-341934.home.otenet.gr] has joined #debian
14:44-!-LightVision [~marius@86.122.167.16] has joined #debian
14:44<ml|>Marxist: since you feel so strongly about this talk to mozilla people
14:44<interbird>I would also not want my name slandered because someone compiled my stuff wrong but also put my "brand-name" in it...
14:44-!-miguelzinho [~miguel@quake.ic.unicamp.br] has joined #debian
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14:45<bja>Marxist: Would you like a Troll to come in here saying it is yourself, forging your identity in full. I guess not, then Mozilla guys want to be sure that their name si by no means an enorsment of a foul product. Simple as that
14:45-!-LightVision [~marius@86.122.167.16] has quit []
14:45<bja>s/enorsment/endorsment
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14:46<Marxist>I will rebrand Debian,,,
14:46<ml|>have fun
14:46<Marxist>then I will tell the same when people comes to tell that this is bullshit
14:46-!-stuckey [~stuckey@X3af2.x.pppool.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:46-!-zem [~voodoo@78-0-200-92.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #debian
14:46<interbird>Don't use the font; it's Debian's...
14:46-!-eraserhead [~t@81.193.35.11] has joined #debian
14:46<Marxist>thanks for teaching me
14:46<Marxist>thanks debian developers
14:46<bja>Marxist: Guess ubuntu beat you on that one :)
14:47<interbird>lol
14:47<ml|>call it Marxist with firefox ;)
14:47<And1>How about some communist-style icons? In soviet debian you can use firefox!
14:47<interbird>Debixt... ?
14:47<LightVision>lol
14:47<ml|>hah
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14:48<interbird>soviet is a wild west, not ?
14:48<interbird>(east)
14:48-!-Zviper [~w@CPE001cf04a011f-CM00194746df82.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #debian
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14:51<stuckey>I'm trying to change my window manager, I ran "update-alternatives --config x-window-manager", selected '3' for the wm I wanted, and logged out of X. I then saw a bunch of ASCII character and blocks of all different colours flashing on the screen. I couldn't give it any keyboard input.
14:51<stuckey>Anyone know why this might be happening?
14:52<interbird>from what to what (wman) ?
14:52<interbird>for what session ?
14:52<interbird>global?
14:53<stuckey>What do you mean session?
14:53<stuckey>I changed it to wmii from metacity
14:53<stuckey>RichiH: What's the games channel again?
14:55-!-karim [~karim@85-169-201-135.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #debian
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14:56<stuckey>interbird: this is happenging still when I try to logout
14:56<zem>i just upgraded to squeeze and something is teribly wrong with my gdm :/
14:56-!-adama26 [~adama@dhcp230-47.navigonet.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:56<And1>http://img4.abload.de/img/communist_partyxxyb.gif
14:56<interbird>zem: like ?
14:56<zem>and btw what kernel do you squeeze guys have?
14:56-!-tkoski [~tkoski@gob75-9-88-178-11-212.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian
14:56<interbird>amd786
14:57<interbird>x128
14:57<zem>interbird: doesn't start, but working on it
14:57<interbird>(sorry, jokin')
14:57-!-stuckey [~stuckey@X3af2.x.pppool.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:57<zem>orly :)
14:57<Marxist>And1, :-))))))))))))
14:57<interbird>zem: does gdm work at all ?
14:58<zem>so.. what's the kernel in squeez, because i expected new kernel after upgrade
14:58<zem>interbird: nope
14:58<ml|>And1: hah
14:58<interbird>zem: are you in text on that box ?
14:58<ml|>judd: kernel
14:58<judd>ml|: Available kernel versions are: trunk: 2.6.30-trunk-686 (2.6.30-1~experimental.1~snapshot.13813); sid: 2.6.30-1-686 (2.6.30-1); squeeze: 2.6.26-2-686 (2.6.26-15); lenny: 2.6.26-2-686 (2.6.26-15); etchnhalf: 2.6.24-etchnhalf.1-686 (2.6.24-6~etchnhalf.8); etch: 2.6.18-6-686 (2.6.18.dfsg.1-24)
14:59<zem>interbird: yup
14:59<zem>tnx ml|
14:59<ml|>np
14:59-!-adama26 [~adama@dhcp230-47.navigonet.com] has joined #debian
14:59<interbird>zem: go root and then: dpkg --purge gdm && apt-get install gdm
15:00<interbird>(reinstall of gdm)
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15:00<vimpulse>interbird: this isn't the first time people have complained about gdm problems. I wonder if there's a bug. What do you think?
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15:00<interbird>You can see if it works after install just by typing gdm at a root-logged-in console, if it does not, put the errors in a pastebin
15:01-!-achandak [~achandak@216-239-45-4.google.com] has joined #debian
15:01<ml|>checking bts is not a bad idea
15:01-!-arabian [~arabian@188.48.67.120] has joined #debian
15:01<zem>interbird: just reinstaling gnome, and i see gdm being installed, i guess it's because i upgraded in gnome, not in console
15:02<interbird>vimpulse: well, squeeze is the version to come not? it's testing and therefore not stable. so, complaints about it are a bit futile me thinks...
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15:03<arabian>6
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15:03<stuckey>interbird: It went away when I removed metacity
15:03<interbird>so did i
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15:04<ml|>stuckey: not using gnome anymore?
15:04<stuckey>ml|: Nope. And I haven't in a long time.
15:04-!-FairyCosmo_ [~Cossie@p5B23BF96.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
15:04<stuckey>Hey, anyone know what the debian games irc channel is?
15:05<ml|>stuckey: /list
15:05-!-Deaimel [~damien@lns-bzn-26-82-254-123-111.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:05<stuckey>ml|: Have you tried that on this server?
15:06-!-stuckey [~stuckey@X3af2.x.pppool.de] has quit []
15:07<ml|>i meant /help list
15:07<interbird>#debian-games ? (on this server)
15:07<interbird>(/j #debian-games)
15:07<ml|>he left
15:07<vimpulse>interbird: /query chanserv
15:07<interbird>he must have found it :-)
15:08<vimpulse>interbird: list *games*
15:08<interbird>i'm not a gamer...
15:08<interbird>i just play
15:08<zem>so you are a player then_
15:08<zem>*?
15:08<ml|>heh
15:09<ml|>vimpulse: forgot about that
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15:10<vimpulse>ml|: yep, it's handy :) on freenode: "/query alis" then "list *games*"
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15:10<vimpulse>stuckey: what happened?
15:10<stuckey>vimpulse: what do you mean?
15:10-!-githogori [~githogori@SJC-Office-DHCP-131.mail-abuse.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:11<vimpulse>stuckey: you disappeared abnormally fast (after just 2 minutes).
15:11<stuckey>I just keep getting a screen of death when I log out
15:11<vimpulse>stuckey: that is why you quit?
15:11<stuckey>Now I'm getting just a green and black screen... keyboard doesn't work... have to reset the machine.
15:11-!-klh [~klh@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-5-161.w92-133.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian
15:11<vimpulse>stuckey: ah. You should fix that before you ask a games question :)
15:12<stuckey>vimpulse: I plan to do so.
15:12<schlurchz>Hi, I want to enable DRI for my ATI R500 card. According to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=493517, this requires libgl1-mesa-dri 7.1, which is not in Lenny. Apparently there is no backport at backports.org. Any idea where to get a working package for Lenny?
15:12<ml|>stuckey: i meant /help list
15:12<stuckey>Anyone know why my screen freezes when I log out of X?
15:12<vimpulse>stuckey: what does "freezes" look like?
15:13<vimpulse>please describe in meticulous detail on one long long line.
15:13<ml|>stuckey: maybe something to do with what you just did changing wm
15:13<bja>stuckey: check the log
15:14<stuckey>Where's the log at?
15:14<bja>/var/log
15:14<ml|>/var/log
15:14<adb>/var/log/stuckey*
15:14<ml|>^where most logs reside
15:14-!-Swissgent [~upvr@80-219-50-142.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #debian
15:15<ml|>adb: get sleep ;)
15:15<adb>ok
15:15<stuckey>bja: Don't see any (EE)s.
15:15<ml|>adb: did you?
15:15<stuckey>vimpulse: Did you have interest in spring?
15:15<adb>yes
15:15<vimpulse>stuckey: what is spring?
15:16<ml|>good :)
15:16<stuckey>vimpulse: You said I should fix my issue before asking questions in #debian-games; my question was about spring..
15:16<vimpulse>stuckey: ah. I had never heard of spring until today. Do they have a channel on freenode? "/query alis" then "list *spring*"
15:16-!-kaist [~family@host-163-3.xdsl.telecet.ru] has joined #debian
15:16<vimpulse>*until now
15:17<stuckey>vimpulse: Yes they do
15:17<vimpulse>stuckey: so why would you like a debian games channel?
15:17<stuckey>vimpulse: I don't understand
15:17<vimpulse>stuckey: what channel are you looking for?
15:17<stuckey>vimpulse: I was looking for #debian-games
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15:19<vimpulse>I want to send the following question to the Apt team. Should I file a bug or just mail it to the apt devel list (deity@lists.d.o)? "I have automatic installation of recommends installed. When I install a package that recommends a '-modules' virtual package containing multiple possibilities, it pulls in the possibility that comes first in alphabetical order. This is usually a 486 modules package, even though I use
15:19<vimpulse>Please change apt-get, aptitude, and synaptic so that they will install the right module for my running kernel."
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15:24<zem>it's not a bug, it's a feature
15:24-!-themill [~stuart@86.53.48.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:26<stuckey>Might anyone here know why my screen locks up when I try to log out of X?
15:27-!-mode/#debian [+l 381] by debhelper
15:28<zem>hmmm...
15:28-!-zem [~voodoo@78-0-200-92.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Quit: leaving]
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15:29*interbird sighs...
15:30-!-Purple [~purple@adsl-62-167-127-111.adslplus.ch] has joined #debian
15:30-!-zem [~voodoo@78-0-200-92.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #debian
15:31-!-f00lano [~magnetic@83.138.251.124.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #debian
15:31-!-fddfoo [~algol@188.24.60.29] has quit [Quit: 10100011010101000011100.]
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15:32<interbird>and secretly hopes that Debian will never become as mainstream as some others; that it will just continue to be Debian; as it is
15:32<zem>hmmm
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15:35<interbird>stuckey: intel video ?
15:35-!-foolano [~magnetic@83.138.251.124.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #debian
15:36<stuckey>interbird: nvidia
15:36-!-zem [~voodoo@78-0-200-92.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #debian
15:36<ml|>interbird: most debian users feel that way if not all
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15:37<interbird>stuckey: had the same with intel i855; dunno about nvidia; solved it to install the xserver from sid; now i have a "mixed-system" but it works; dunno about nvidia
15:37<Marxist>propreatary drivers
15:37<Marxist>LOL
15:38-!-Blacker47 [~Blacker47@gssn-590e379f.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
15:38<zem>hmmm... when i maximize windows they go under my bars :/
15:38<ml|>Marxist: you don't have to use them
15:38<stuckey>I"m using the nv driver, by the way
15:38<interbird>Is Debixt ready for downloading yet ?
15:38<fleish>hi gang, i'm trying to setup a ruby environment on lenny for some developers, the only ruby gem so far I can't find a debian package for is simple-rss ... does anyone know if it exists and I'm just not finding it (soapr4 for example doesn't have ruby anywhere in it's name, but the description does show it is for ruby)
15:38<ml|>zem: that's a bug check bts
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15:40<vimpulse>stuckey: why not try the vesa driver and see if it fixes your problem?
15:40<stuckey>vimpulse: already tried it
15:40<vimpulse>stuckey: and? :)
15:40<stuckey>didn't work
15:41<vimpulse>stuckey: what happened when you logged out using vesa?
15:41<interbird>stuckey: try moving your mouse a lot when logging-out; it might help (no joke, i had the same prob on my intel i855 and when i moved mouse on logout it did not hang)
15:42-!-Spami|Thug_ [~Spami|Thu@sal69-3-88-163-16-20.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian
15:42<stuckey>vimpulse: exact same thing
15:42-!-finga [~ZM]finga@85-127-150-112.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #debian
15:42<stuckey>I've never had this happen before
15:42<interbird>stuckey: what does dpkg --list|grep xserver-xorg-video say for version ?
15:43<stuckey>interbird: 1:7.3+18
15:43<vimpulse>stuckey: does your city have a Linux User Group or a Hackerspace or similar?
15:43<stuckey>xserver-xorg-video-all, that is.
15:43<stuckey>vimpulse: huh?
15:43<vimpulse>stuckey: what city do you live in? or, what is your nearest city?
15:43<stuckey>vimpulse: Wuerzburg
15:44-!-foolano [~magnetic@83.138.251.124.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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15:44<vimpulse>stuckey: how many people live there?
15:44<stuckey>ehh, 250,000 maybe
15:44-!-jackyf [~jackyf@94-248-78-34.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #debian
15:44<And1>stuckey: You had a great festival there last weekend. ;)
15:44<interbird>stuckey: version of xserver-xorg-video-nv
15:44-!-jackyf [~jackyf@94-248-78-34.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
15:44<stuckey>And1: Yes we did.
15:44<stuckey>interbird: 1:2.1.10-1
15:45<vimpulse>stuckey: try to google for [ wuerzburg linux ]. Or check www.hackerspaces.org for the nearest hackerspace. At either place, you can get in-person help. For complicated Xorg problems, this will save you time. :)
15:45-!-jackyf [~jackyf@94-248-78-34.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #debian
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15:46<AndiSHFR>stuckey: http://www.wuelug.de/
15:47<stuckey>AndiSHFR: what/s this?
15:47<vimpulse>stuckey: click the link :) a place to get in-person help.
15:47<stuckey>it's down
15:47<ml|>it's a lug :)
15:47<vimpulse>well, their job is not to help you, but they might help you anyway if you ask.
15:47<vimpulse>stuckey: http://web.archive.org can show you the cached contents of downed sites
15:48<stuckey>I'm asking in the xorg channel.
15:48<interbird>stuckey: you could try to temporarily modify /etc/apt/sources.list to sid and then upgrade the xorg stuff, like i did; but this leaves you with a "mixed system" and i don't reccomend it; nor is it a good solution for the problem you have; i just identify with it, while using a different card and blaming it on the xserver you run now
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15:49<stuckey>interbird: okay
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15:49<ml|>stuckey: what release are you on?
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15:49<stuckey>ml|: lenny
15:49<ml|>ah
15:49<interbird>stuckey: also. there are some tricks in /etc/X11/xorg.conf (like settings XAA to EXA) you might want to try first
15:50<stuckey>interbird: I'm about to swap out this nvidia card for a radeon one, so perhaps I'll just let this be.
15:51<jthomas_sb_>I cannot connect to a Postfix/Dovecot mail server to send emails; we're getting authentication issues: "5.7.8 Error: authentication failed: authentication failure" Do I need to set up postfix or dovecot differently to allow port25 connections or something?
15:51<interbird>stuckey: google first for the ati-card compatibility would be my last advice...
15:52<stuckey>I already did my research there
15:52<vimpulse>stuckey: good idea -- just let it be.
15:52<vimpulse>save time.
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15:54<stuckey>It's just strange because I've never seen this before...
15:54<zem>ml|: i have found the bug, but no solution, is there one that i can't find that you know of? (the panels over windows bug)
15:55<vimpulse>stuckey: don't get hung up on it. Donate away the card to a good cause, or put it in a Windows PC, and save your time. Every minute of your life is valuable.
15:55<vimpulse>reboot time
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15:56<interbird>because every minute is valuable, debian needs few reboots...
15:56<bremner>interbird: or just faster reboots
15:56<Bunnyh>If I have /mnt (a separate filesystem) bind mounted on /home/user/foo, and I run "mv /home/user/foo/file1 /mnt/file2", mv seems to think that it is a cross-filesystem transfer. Running instead "mv /mnt/file1 /mnt/file2" is of course as fast as expected, and does effectively the same thing, but that still somewhat ruins my usage of bind mounts
15:58<interbird>that depends if your /mnt is a different mounted fs from your /home
15:58<RichiH>stuckey: #debian-games
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15:58<stuckey>RichiH: Thanks
15:58<interbird>if they are all on the same fs, then mount --bind is on the same fs too
15:58<RichiH>np
15:59<weasel>interbird: only the kernel won't let you link() accross mount boundaries
15:59<Bunnyh>/ is it's own fs, /mnt is it's own, /home is it's own, and /mnt is ALSO bind-mounted on /home/user/foo
15:59<Bunnyh>So shouldn't access to /home/user/foo be the same as access to /mnt ?
15:59<weasel>that's why Bunnyh sees mv falling back to cp/rm
15:59<weasel>Bunnyh: get the kernel fixed and mv will do the Right Thing again
16:00<interbird>weasel: but mount --bind lets you; even after unmounting the 'source' --bind it keeps the link
16:00<weasel>I'm not following you.
16:02<interbird>weasel: you can mount a dir from fsB to a mount-point on fsA with --bind, then unmount the fsB and still the mount-point on fsA will work
16:02<weasel>and your point?
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16:04<Bunnyh>I guess fixing that wouldn't be even close to trivial.. unless there is a patch somewhere exactly for that, and it just hasn't been included in the kernel for some reason
16:04<interbird>that a link to an unmounted fs is still accessable (while it is unmounted)
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16:06<ml|>zem: let me see if i find the link
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16:07<ml|>zem: nope forgot that power went out and irc info
16:07<ml|>*lost
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16:10<stuckey>What all has to be done when switching video cards? Just a reconfiguration of the x server?
16:10<locklace>dpkg: revolution!
16:10<dpkg>eliminate fsck power of brutal event!
16:13<interbird>weasel: if you are in for an "exercise" of this, meet me at #bind and i will show you a --bind from b to a, unmounting b and still have the --bind dir accessable from a
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16:13<weasel>interbird: I know that. however, it's completely besides the point of Bunnyh's issue.
16:14<weasel>which is that link() returns EXDEV when you try such a "cross-device" link()
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16:16<interbird>i am *not* talking about link(); nor about hardlinking dirs; i'm talking about --binding a dir between twee fs and then unmount the 'source' fs; which means: to umount a filesystem does mean it can be modyfied !!
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16:16<interbird>s/twee/two/
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16:16<interbird>cannot
16:16<weasel>when you --bind mount it you just mount it a second time.
16:17<interbird>umount a fs with a --bind to a second does not make it free; able to fsck
16:17<weasel>it's not unmounted until it's unmounted everywhere.
16:17<weasel>interbird: it seems we agree on that. so why did you bring it up?
16:17<interbird>ahhh, that explains a lot to me; thanks !
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16:18<locklace>i just assumed it was another arbitrary, crack-fueled monologue
16:18<interbird>weasel: yes we do, you just let me know more about the insite of --bind; thx
16:18<weasel>locklace: apparently
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16:19<interbird>hey, i'm just learning also; gimme a chance :-)
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16:23<interbird>in essence this means that: umount /mnt/your-mount-point, and seeing no more files there, -does not mean- the fs is completely unmounted; and i always thought that was the case; that's why i brought it up.
16:23<interbird>so, checking for * in the mountpoint in scripts is not good
16:24<interbird>mount -l or mtab has to be searched to be sure no access remains
16:24<interbird>can you understand my reasoning ?
16:25<johns>So I guess I'm running into a bug similar to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/363812 in sid -- my wwan card is not even showing up in lsusb
16:26<johns>any magic ideas for things to try to get it to appear? there is also no wwan entry in /proc/acpi/ibm which I think there should be
16:26<johns>http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Ericsson_F3507g_Mobile_Broadband_Module is the card
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16:30<interbird>so, nothing get's visible when you plug it in? (lsusb, lspci, ifconfig -a, iwlan ?)
16:31<interbird>is there firmware needing to be loaded, if you know ?
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16:36<johns>interbird: nope, nothing visible, not lshw either
16:36<johns>interbird: I should poke around for firmware, I have not seen mention of any required
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16:39<interbird>dumb question, since this is an usb-device... your usb-port is not "worn-out" ? next dumb question, does it need firmware? if so, then changes are debian does not have it and you have to obtain and activate the firmware yourself. (wild guesses)
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16:40<interbird>most of these devices need some firmware uploaded...
16:43<interbird>dunno, seems it has some: http://forums.lenovo.com/lnv/board/message?board.id=T400_series_ThinkPads&thread.id=10216
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16:44<johns>interbird: not worn out, it's an internal device (and brand new computer)
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16:44<johns>interbird: hm, I think that thread is about firmware on the card
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16:45<interbird>possibly, i was assuming an usb device
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16:45<interbird>contact the manufacturer ? :-)
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16:51<tp43>who wants to here something funny? Anyway, this is how I sleep and lock my fluxbox. #sleep 10; echo shutdown > /sys/power/disk; echo disk > /sys/power/state; and then in another terminal I do $xtrlock
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16:52<johns>interbird: yeah, can't wait for the day when I can sit through debian tech support on the phone that's just as annoying and scripted as windows support is now ;)
16:52<tp43>I use fluxbox for flash, cause youtube doesn't play so well in gnome
16:54<interbird>johns: i did not meant that; i meant like using debian-compatible stuff, then the "helpdesk" is on this channel; but i know what you mean...
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16:59<interbird>gnome is a desktop environment, flash is a way to show (streaming) video-content... the relation?
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17:00<tp43>interbird, I don't know, flash works in fluxbox, but is way to slow in gnome
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17:03<interbird>tp43: fluxbox is a "desktop-environment" too; flash is a part of decoding stuff; not a part of a desktop-environment; swfdec and gnash are some alterntives, but to say gnome makes flash slow is to say your bike does not have speed because the road is rocky
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17:04<interbird>flash should be 'banihed' imho
17:05<tp43>interbird, ok, I guess it installs a different player in gnome. But fluxbox is and 'environment' its just a display manager and its is very fast
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17:05<interbird>let's hope that with html5 <video> Theora gets what it deserves...
17:05<tp43>I wish flash were banished too. But it aint going anywhere anytime soon
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17:06<Maku>Hey
17:06<interbird>not as long as we "kling" to it...
17:06<Maku>Is there any way to get console in widescreen resolution?
17:06<interbird>f11?
17:07-!-mode/#debian [+l 375] by debhelper
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17:07<bja>Maku: Can you be more specific?
17:07<Maku>I can get framebuffer running only in 4:3 resolution, i would like to get 16:10
17:08<interbird>vga=0xxyz at kernel boot ?
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17:10<bja>Maku: interbird might be right, check your screen resolution against your driver for the appropriate value of vga :)
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17:12<interbird>16:10 is a graphics aspect-ration; dunno what would be a conforming ration for a text (framebuffer) console
17:12<Maku>the problem is that if i will enter any vga mode proven to be working as 16:10, i get error that this mode is unavailble, and list of modes...
17:12<king36>jemand deutsch hier
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17:13<Maku>interbird: it's my monitor's native resolution (1280x800)
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17:13<king36>Germany pls hier????????????????
17:13<interbird>Maku: a text-console is something different from a graphical console (GUI)
17:14<king36>germany germany
17:14<king36>??
17:14<king36>??
17:14<king36>?
17:14<king36>ßßß
17:14<interbird>Maku: the vga=blablabla parameter controls your consoles when booted up (the text-consoles, like on ctrl-alr-fx)
17:14-!-mode/#debian [+o weasel] by ChanServ
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17:15<interbird>Maku: 16:10 is a raphical aspect-ratio, what your card is capable of in text-modus is what you need to know (we are talking about a text-console, not?)
17:15-!-mitch_ [~mitch@94.196.47.114.threembb.co.uk] has joined #debian
17:15<interbird>s/raphical/graphical/
17:16<Maku>i'm talking about the text console
17:18<interbird>then, 16:10 does not really apply; only the max resolution your card can accomplish for a text-console matters; and, btw, sometimes it's impossible to have text-modus fill your whole monitor screen; especially for things like 16:10 (non-standard wide-screen)
17:19<interbird>in text
17:19<Maku>my native resolution is 1280x800, and i can get this in X without any problem
17:19<bja>Maku: nvidia?
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17:20<Maku>intel :'<
17:20-!-marga [~marga@190.55.100.172] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:20<Maku>it's a laptop...
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17:20<interbird>Maku: 1280x800 should be some vga=.... parameter; dunno by heart...
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17:20<interbird>googling for Maku
17:21<Maku>interbird: The problem is, hwinfo --framebuffer gives me only 4:3 ratio resolutions like 800x600 etc
17:21<interbird>Maku: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VESA_BIOS_Extensions (may help)
17:22<interbird>1280x800 = 16:10
17:22<mitch_>how do i access my other drives from xubuntu?
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17:22<Maku>the problem is not the fact i doesn't know the code (it's 864 for my laptop), but the fact that i can't get them working
17:22<bja>!ubuntu
17:22<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it is unlikely to live up to Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu (irc.freenode.net) instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian>.
17:22<interbird>So, unless your card can do that in text, there is no other way (for text)
17:23<Maku>it says it has some problems with framebuffer
17:23<interbird>hmm
17:23<interbird>dunno, sorry Maku
17:23<bja>interbird: framebuffer i believe is not exaclty the same as tty
17:24<interbird>no it's not
17:24<interbird>a tty could map to a fb
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17:25<bja>I think thats where Maku is right now?
17:26<bja>Maku: how did you installed the framebuffer?
17:26<interbird>bja: ifiak, the resolution of the plan text-console when booting debian is set with a vga= parameter in the kernel; this depends a lot on the videocard and the text-fonts used
17:26<interbird>s/plan/plain/
17:27<Maku>bja: i had them by default
17:27<Maku>just modified initramfs to modprobe intelfb at start
17:27<Maku>and then use video=intelfb:1280x800 as kernel parameter
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17:28<tp43>Who can save me from this command: #sleep 10; echo shutdown > /sys/power/disk; echo disk > /sys/power/state; and then in another terminal I do $xtrlock
17:29<bja>Maku: Those are specific kernel modules parameters, those should work :(
17:29<bja>tp43: shutdown -h now should save you :)
17:29<xlotlu>Maku: i think what you want is only doable with kernel mode-setting
17:29<interbird>Maku: are you on a laptop ?
17:30<bja>yep she is
17:30<bja>sorry Maku foolish assumption :(
17:30<Maku>interbird: yes, xlotlu: i heard about KMS, but i don't have idea what it is.
17:30<interbird>kee, then <fn-key>f5 or some ?
17:30<interbird>this changes the way the laptop mapps the text-screen
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17:31<bja>interbird: isn't that hw specific?
17:31<Maku>FN+f5 is mute there :p
17:31<interbird>bja: yes
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17:31<xlotlu>Maku: it's simple. the kernel sets the video mode, instead of the framebuffer or the xserver having direct access to the hardware. so you can have a single resolution across boot, framebuffer console, X
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17:32<interbird>bja: the laptop maps the text-mode "big" or "small"; just thought this might be his prob; dunno, wild guess...
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17:33<interbird>X has not much to do with the vga=... kernel-parameter
17:33<xlotlu>Maku: if it's intel video, it should probably work with kernel >= 2.6.29. not sure about what version of xorg / xorg-video-intel are needed though
17:33<Maku>xlotlu: how to use it?
17:33<Maku>2.6.30 here :P
17:33<Maku>and unstable debian
17:34<xlotlu>Maku: google around.. i haven't tried it yet
17:34<interbird>there was a package, "915resolution" that was once needed to access some video-modes on intel-chipsets a while ago...
17:34<Maku>interbird: not needed anymore
17:34-!-AbsintheSyringe [~havoc@SE400.PPPoE-2853.sa.bih.net.ba] has joined #debian
17:34<Maku>merged into xorg
17:35<xlotlu>interbird: vga kernel parameter has to do with the vesa modes supported by the GPU. if hwinfo --framebuffer says the native resolution isn't there, then it's not there..
17:35<interbird>Maku: i know, but i mentioned it just in case
17:35<xlotlu>there's even 915resolution for grub :)
17:36-!-dr|zed [~dr|z3d@659AAAROY.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
17:36<interbird>xlotlu: tis was not true sometime ago, when hwinfo said the max res was 1024x768 while activating 915resolution uncovered the "hidden" resolutions; no that is obsolete
17:36<xlotlu>but even with 915resolution and the same resolution in framebuffer and X, you'd still get flickering when changing VTs, because of them doing their own hardware access. KMS fixes that
17:36<tp43>bja, yeah, but its not what I am trying to do, I wanna sleep and hibernate, while having to type password when I come back. If I could just get into into one line instead of using two terminals and sleep
17:37<xlotlu>interbird: yeah, but someone decided to obsolete 915resolution after the xorg driver took care of the problem, which was annoying
17:37<bja>tp43: do a script
17:38<bja>s/do/write
17:38<xlotlu>interbird: but now with KMS it really is obsolete
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17:38<tp43>bja, yeah, true, never did it before
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17:38<tp43>bja, I could do it
17:38<tp43>bja, thanks for the idea
17:40<interbird>xlotlu: i'm still not happy with the xerver-video-intel driver because it hangs with the version distrubuted with lenny and using the sid-version slows stuff down on compiz; but hey, better to be slow than hang all the way when logging out :-(
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17:41<tp43>can you run compiz on fluxbox?
17:42<xlotlu>interbird: it was totally ok on my wife's eee, until after some upgrade it wouldn't recover from sleep with compositing enabled. so i disabled "desktop effects", not that she cares much about it :)
17:42-!-karim [~karim@85-169-201-135.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
17:42<tp43>nope
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17:45<interbird>xlotlu: compositing is sometimes a big "stand-in-the-way" on stuff like compiz or metacity with compisite enabled; that's because the video is compisited in the "view-area" of the window; sometimes i have to move a window just to get the video viewable again... But it's getting better, and for development i just use a plain box with no advanced stuff at all, that works the best...
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18:01<tofix>hi all, how could id do for an account to stay enable, but without login possibilities and no password (ssh public keys ), what should i do on this account in /etc/passwd ?
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18:04<dkr>tofix: set the shell to /bin/false
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18:05<tofix>no dkr , ineed to login trough ssh
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18:07<dkr>tofix: yuo mean you want to reuire a key for login via ssha nd disable password authentication? that you would do in /etc/ssh/sshd_config
18:07<dkr>man sshd_config to find the exact option
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18:07<misha>set password to /etc/shadow to * and use public authentification in ssh
18:07<misha>in*
18:07<tofix>dkr, no , i have two users on a server , that registrate their own public key to the account admin on another
18:08<tofix>yes mish
18:08<tofix>yes misha
18:08<tofix>just *
18:08<tofix>not !*
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18:13<bja>misha: Why would you set the pwd on shadow to * what is supposed to acomplish?
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18:16<dkr>that's the 1980s way to disable accounts
18:17<themill_>What do you mean "vi /etc/passwd" has gone out of fashion?
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18:17<misha>bja, it's supposed not to allow user to login with password, because * doesn't match to any hash of any password
18:17<bja>misha: thx
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18:18<dkr>setting PasswordAuthentication no makes more sense in this situation
18:18<misha>a lot of programms have to be able to read /etc/passwd, so no real passwords is kept there
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18:18<bja>Although there are other ways to set that directly on a per user base on sshd
18:18<misha>dkr, yes, but user would be able to login from console
18:18<misha>from phyical console, i mean
18:19<bja>misha: your are right, but do they get acces to the server?
18:19<misha>no idea
18:19<dkr>he specifically asked that the account remain enabled
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18:34<themill>!qotd0
18:34<dpkg><nvz> think about it ffs <tak_2> ffs? <nvz> !ffs <dpkg> rumour has it, ffs is for fuck's sake, or for fine's sake. UCB's Fast File System, or [...] <tak_2> I need to download fast file system?
18:35<vsayer>where is the rdev executable?
18:36<vsayer>it's part of the util-linux package
18:36<vsayer>but i can't it on debian and fedora
18:36<vsayer>can't find* it
18:37<dkr>% dpkg -S `which rdev`
18:37<dkr>util-linux: /usr/sbin/rdev
18:37<paggas>how can i configure a user so that when they start an x session, all that gets run is ~/.xinitrc (or some other user script perhaps)? but without any desktop environment starting up! e.g. the script could run its own window manager, taskbar, etc
18:37<dkr>well, you knew the package so I guess dpkg -L util-linux would have made more sense, :)
18:38<dkr>paggas: using gdm?
18:38<paggas>dkr: yes
18:38-!-togakushi [~tigakushi@PPPbf1576.chiba-ip.dti.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:39<dkr>you could add an option to the m choices in gdm. that option could be to run their own personal ~/.xinitrc? not sure, haven't used the .xinitrc method since back in the days when I ran startx myself after logging in at console, heh
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18:39<dkr>wm choices
18:40<dkr>that might already be an option, some of those desktop manager configs get litle tricky with lots of symlinks for sessions stuff and the like
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18:41<h4xck>5
18:41<everton>someone to help me?
18:41<h4xck>yes
18:41<dkr>paggas: check out /etc/gdm/Xsession
18:41<paggas>dkr: since only root can run startx, how do i tell it which user to login as?
18:42<h4xck>how configure .. mi lexmark ..lenny
18:42<dkr>paggas: I wasn't recommending startx, just reminiscing. stick with gdm is probably best
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18:45<bja>paggas: I had a similar problem, I ended up configuring each wm that was needed, not a pleasent task:(
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18:46<paggas>bja: i'm not doing this for regular work, just some tests, i ultimately want to have a user run a given set of processes when logging in, and when a specific one of them exits, to log out
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18:49<bja>paggas: interesting, more similar than i expected :)
18:50<bja>paggas: I could only do something similar on sawfish
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18:57<Maku>any intel KMS user here?
18:58<Maku>because i've managed to run it, but it detects two displays
18:58<Maku>one with 1280x800
18:58<Maku>and another with 1024x800
18:59<Maku>the lower one is TV output (or second output) i suppose
19:00<Maku>but i don't know why it points to main output :s
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19:06<interbird>sometimes i have problems with shell-scripts; there are incompatibilities between bash and dash; which-one is the "standard" ?
19:06<interbird>(standard as-in safe)
19:06<bja>interbird: there are bashism i have yet to hear of dahism
19:07<locklace>the standard for #!/bin/sh is sh
19:07<koollman>interbird: none are strictly standard, I guess, but it would be safer to chose whatever works for dash
19:07<koollman>and to make sure it works for both dash and bash, of course.
19:07<locklace>koollman: sh is strictly standard
19:07-!-sladi [~sl@4-173-222-85.adsl.verat.net] has joined #debian
19:08<interbird>so, dash the lesser capable, is the "standard" ?
19:08<bja>locklace: i believe sh is The Standard :)
19:08<themill>interbird: debian policy defines what is expected for debian (posix sh plus a couple of other things but not nearly as much as bash provides)
19:09<interbird>sh does not exist, it's symlink, either pointing to bash or dash; so, dash is the safest way to program shell? (forget bash arrays...)?
19:09<koollman>locklace: I can safely say no. sh is a symlink to bash on most of my servers
19:10<koollman>and, while it behaves as much as possible like the sh spec ... it's not perfect
19:10<locklace>koollman: way to miss the point
19:10<Aleric>I want to debug a crash in libX11, but it's kinda annoying that my desktop locks up during debugging :). Does anyone know if it's possible to run a second X server and use that for testing one application while still keeping the normal desktop?
19:10<koollman>locklace: sure. sh, from the standards spec, is the standard. but, it's not there. ;)
19:11<interbird>so, what makes safe shell-programming (portable?)
19:11<themill>interbird: sh has a definition in the posix/single unix specs. See http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-files.html#s-scripts for what debian requires
19:11<koollman>interbird: painful documentation, tests and a bit of luck
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19:12<bja>interbird: I would believe that checking that you run on a known shell would make your scripts failsafe, or at least noisy enough to avoid unknown shells
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19:13<interbird>koollman: did, /bin/sh symlinks to bash on debian and synlinks to dash on ubuntu; so what is the best? what is the least common denominator? don't tell me it't the K&R sh...
19:13<koollman>interbird: it's close to that
19:13<koollman>interbird: do you intend to do any kind of serious shell programming ? :)
19:14<themill>interbird: if it works with dash it's probably reasonably portable. But read the spec if you actually care.
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19:15<koollman>when I want a portable shell script, I test it with bash, dash, sh from busybox and sh from freebsd. if it works on all of them, it's good enough for me.
19:16<interbird>koollman: serious i don't know, portable i want it to be; thought dash was debian's ash but debian does not use it, so i'm a bit confused
19:17-!-mode/#debian [+l 367] by debhelper
19:17<locklace>interbird: writing portable sh is the same as writing portable c. follow the language standard.
19:18<interbird>so, in short, i should avoid "bashisms" (looked up the terms, makes sense to me)
19:18<locklace>the fact that there are broken compilers/interpreters for every language is neither here nor there
19:18<koollman>interbird: right
19:18<interbird>thx
19:18<interbird>"standard"
19:19<koollman>well there are less 'broken' interpreters of sh. the problems lies more in non-standard extensions. But at least the standard part works the same way everywhere, most of the time
19:20<interbird>there is no sh on my debian; correct ?
19:20<interbird>just a symlink
19:20<koollman>correct
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19:24<interbird>little question; why did debian introduce "dash" as a faster alternative but uses bash instead ?
19:24-!-vsayer [~vsayer@67.169.137.199] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:24<themill>because not everything works with dash yet
19:24-!-jgarvey [~jgarvey@cpe-098-026-065-013.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:25<interbird>you mean everything will work with dash when it becomes as capable as bash but in some other way ?
19:26<interbird>i don't see why dash got introduced
19:26<interbird>by debian
19:26<locklace>everything will work when all the broken sh scripts get fixed
19:26-!-madrescher [~hkunz@dhcp-vpn-89-206-68-5.unizh.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
19:26<interbird>broken scripts or broken shells ?
19:26<locklace>i'm not going to repeat myself
19:26<themill>scripts. There are many scripts that assume that /bin/sh is bash.
19:27<interbird>why did debian introduce dash and not make it the default ?
19:27<themill>interbird: please read.
19:28<interbird>themill: i read, but cannot understand why dash was ever needed...
19:28-!-xemacs4321 [~mlowe@c-67-188-141-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:28<themill>interbird: how did you describe dash? "a faster alternative"
19:29<interbird>themill: yes, i forgot the "less capable" part in that line
19:29<themill>for the sake of a couple of things that almost all scripting can do without, why not use a much faster interpreter?
19:30<interbird>like?
19:30<interbird>dash?
19:30<locklace>for god's sake
19:30-!-shze [~mheinzes@1Cust210.tnt7.ber2.deu.da.uu.net] has joined #debian
19:30<themill>interbird: I think we've been around this circle before.
19:31<locklace>he does this intermittently, especially after a certain hour
19:31<themill>If it were an old box of electronics, I'd give it a quick slap....
19:32<locklace>dpkg: slap interbird
19:32-!-brendan_ [~brendan@ResNet-32-179.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #debian
19:32*dpkg strikes a resounding *THWAP* across interbird's face
19:32<interbird>themill: ok, 3.14.. is reached; still i have my questions about dash being introduced by debian and scripts breaking on it; but, let's move on
19:33<interbird>!free locklace
19:34<shze>how can I set up /etc/network/interfaces to bring up my mobile broadband connection if connected at boottime or later?
19:34-!-codehippo [~chris@nullspace.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:34<shze>using auto stanzas it is brought up if connected on boot
19:34-!-upsi [~augh@cpc2-cove10-0-0-cust511.brhm.cable.ntl.com] has joined #debian
19:34<shze>allow-hotplug doesn't bring it up at all
19:35<interbird>is the SSID in there ?
19:36<shze>it's mobile broadband, work with sim card and phone# as identifier
19:36<shze>no ssid necessary
19:36<shze>I set up ppp config, it works with pon and poff, but I want it to connect automatically
19:37<shze>either at boot or when I connect it later
19:37<bremner>shze: something about ppp-on-boot ?
19:37-!-vocx [~vocx@189.175.186.84] has joined #debian
19:38<shze>bremner: on boot works with auto stanza in interfaces, but if I plug it in later it isn't brought up automatically
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19:38<interbird>shze: /etc/bash.bashrc ?
19:39<interbird>(do stuff at boot)
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19:39<shze>interbird: is bashrc read before user logs in?
19:39<bremner>shze: oh, I see. Maybe a job for udev or hal then.
19:39<interbird>yes
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19:40*bremner thinks interbird may be having a crackful moment
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19:40<shze>bremner: udev rule seems an good idea, although I have no idea about writing one (yet)
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19:41<interbird>!crack
19:41<dpkg>crack: see source of spacehogs comment on apt
19:41*bremner just types "pon" like the dinosaur he is
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19:42<Maku>hey, i'm kinda new to compiling the kernel, but I have to compile the newest snapshot, what's the easiest way of obtaining it?
19:42<shze>bremner: pon would be ok for a single user, but I want it to connect before any user logs in
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19:43<bremner>shze: are you running hal? halevt could handle this, I think
19:43<event_done>when using 'updatedb' would a mounted ntfs drive be included in the index?
19:43<interbird>Maku: get source; cd to dir; make xconfig or make gconfig; if error about missing dev-stuff install it and try again
19:43<interbird>(plain kernel)
19:43<shze>bremner: no hal, but I don't have a problem installing it
19:44<Maku>infernix: i'm talking about the getting the source point :P
19:44<locklace>Maku: kernel.org
19:44<Maku>infernix: i need the most update snapshot, i don't get what i've to do with the patch file :/
19:44<interbird>Maku: debian source or plain? i thought you asked about compiling...
19:45<Maku>what's the difference? i think i need plain.
19:45<locklace>shze: if you aren't already forced to have hal, you definitely don't want to install it intentionally
19:45<interbird>apt-get kernel-source ?
19:45<locklace>Maku: kernel.org
19:45<locklace>Maku: apply the patch to the stable version it's relative to using git apply
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19:46<bremner>shze: It might be worth checking out the latest network-manager, I heard it would eventually work in a headless way
19:46<Maku>so, download latest sources, and then apply newest patch, right?
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19:47<interbird>then you have a kernel-source, yes
19:47-!-simonrvn [simon@210.223-ppp.3menatwork.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:47<interbird>now how to compile it
19:48<interbird>a patch is a patch to a wound; is te source you want to use suffering from this wound?
19:48<shze>bremner: thanks, I'll play with both ;)
19:50<event_done>when using 'updatedb' would a mounted ntfs drive be included in the index?
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19:52<interbird>event_done: depends on the setting in some (m)locate config file; could be in var
19:52<locklace>event_done: you should find the contents of /etc/updatedb.conf illuminating, along with its manual page
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19:53<event_done>thanks you guys
19:53<event_done>found it already
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19:56<interbird>event_done: yep, locklace is right, the database is generated in /var/lib/mlocate/mlocate.db (if you use mlocate)
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20:02<interbird>hmm, now totem breaks on this sid shit i did to solve my x-hanging problem; solve one lose one i guess :-)
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20:08<Pitxyoki>Ah, ah, interbird.
20:08<Pitxyoki>Welcome to the wonder of Debian.
20:08-!-egypcio [~egypcio@200.150.132.61] has joined #debian
20:09<adb>interbird: Welcome to Sid
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20:10<interbird>I love her; she always has some point to make (at least for deb-part; the ian part is with oracle now?)
20:10-!-byonk [~byonk@61-227-189-162.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #debian
20:11<interbird>(Ian->Solaris->Sun->Oracle)
20:12<Pitxyoki>Actually, I'm curious about that Debra.
20:12<Pitxyoki>Who's she?
20:12<Pitxyoki>Has anyone ever seen her?
20:13<Pitxyoki>I know it was Ian's girlfriend when Debian was created. But who and where is she now?
20:13<interbird>Well, Melissa Gates was Bob...
20:13<interbird>Anyone has a Bob copy? :-)
20:14<interbird>(Still it was a nice idea; just not ready for the time being; like OS/2 WPS)
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20:26<interbird>Should Debian release a rx with gnome 2.26 and other important backports to "keep up" or should it stay with it's "always-behind" cycle ? Must be difficult on 11 architectures
20:26<valdyn>interbird: it does not have a choice
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20:27<valdyn>interbird: you know about debians constitution right?
20:27-!-catap [~catap@jabber.catap.ru] has left #debian []
20:27<interbird>you mean the dfg?
20:28<interbird>or did you mean congestion ?
20:29<interbird>(power struggle)
20:29<valdyn>interbird: no i meant constitution, im looking for it though
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20:30<valdyn>interbird: im lazy to dig it up, however debian cannot release changes to stable
20:31<valdyn>interbird: the only workaround would be maintaining and supporting both
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20:35<interbird>valdyn: or dropping the 'former' stable in favor of a 'new' stable; between stable and testing; but i agree with you that would be impossible to do; and, now i read back, that would be about debian becomming 'more in the legue' of an ordinary user; which is not the goal; so i retract my remarks about that
20:35<valdyn>interbird: backports.org is what tries to fill that gap
20:37-!-Wangy [~hnguyen@pha75-5-82-225-75-125.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian
20:37<interbird>valdyn: yes, come to think of it, i agree and disagree with myself on what i said; it's good the way it is; thank you for slaying the "blingbling" that was blinding me
20:42<Pitxyoki>In my opinion, if you want a (relatively) stable system with more recent software, just use testing.
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20:46<interbird>Well, I like Debian, just because; but i would not recommend it to my 'newbie' friends; for that I recommend Mint. I would like to recommend Debian, but Debian is the base; "the shoulder of a giant"; they don't need to know that, as long as i don't forget it
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20:52<interbird>"It's for x86 only" (Linus Torvalds), "640kb should be enough for everyone" (Bill Gates)
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21:08<craigevil>debian is no harder to use than Mint or any other distro. Newer is not always better just look at the wine releases half the time they break something that worked before or look at kde4 compared to kde3.5
21:09<SuperMiguel>on debian i added a startup program, and sometimes it will start and other it wont.. is there a way to debug it? or is there a log?
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21:10<craigevil>starts at boot or when your de/wm starts?
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21:12<adb>SuperMiguel: don't paste both debian channel , please
21:12<adb>paste on*
21:13<SuperMiguel>craigevil, well i added it to preferences > sessions
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21:19<user1976>hola
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21:20<craigevil>SuperMiguel: then that should work, I do not use gnome but thats how it is supposed to work
21:21<SuperMiguel>user1976, hola
21:21<user1976>hablas español?
21:21<SuperMiguel>si
21:21<user1976>tengo una consulta sobre grub
21:21<adb>!es
21:21<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
21:22<user1976>!es
21:22<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
21:22-!-gonebird is now known as interbird
21:22<user1976>jojo
21:22-!-interbird [~interbird@82-170-215-129.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving from this bitplane...]
21:22<SuperMiguel>lol
21:22<user1976>how can I boot both Operating Systems?
21:22<abrotman>both?
21:22<user1976>SATA1 Debian
21:23<user1976>SATA2 Winbug
21:23<abrotman>google "grub dual boot"
21:23<user1976>in the BIOS choose 1 boot Sata2 and boot Winbug
21:24<user1976>and choose 1 boot Sata1 to boot Debian
21:24<Pitxyoki>SuperMiguel, check the ~/.xsession-errors file.
21:24<user1976>I dont know how to edit grub to add Winbug
21:26-!-Pitxyoki [~PT-SC-257@81.84.169.167] has quit [Quit: Pitxyoki]
21:28<SuperMiguel>user1976, sudo gedit /boot/grub/menu.lst
21:28<abrotman>wtf
21:29<SuperMiguel>?
21:29<abrotman>user1976: if you install debian after windows, the debian installation should see windows and add it ot the grub menu
21:29<abrotman>SuperMiguel: 1) sudo configured? 2) is gedit installed? 3) is he using grub1?
21:29<craigevil>SuperMiguel: not everyone uses sudo and gedit isn't always installed
21:30<abrotman>user1976: are you using grub1 or grub2? which OS did you install first?
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21:30<SuperMiguel>abrotman, change gedit for nano :) is installed by default
21:30-!-iron [~tobias@p4FD2BFB1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian
21:30<abrotman>he might not know that
21:32<SuperMiguel>i didnt know winbug was an os :)
21:32<SuperMiguel>i tough it was just a bug reporting tool :)
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21:48<event_done>anyone frequent freenode?
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22:00<user1976>i did move some partitions of winbug
22:00<user1976>because first I had 1 Hard disk
22:00<user1976>with the two OS
22:01<user1976>later i did add a second hard disk
22:01<user1976>the first hd has Ubuntu
22:02<user1976>and the second hd has winbug (reinstalled)
22:02<user1976>now I dont know how to edit grub to add winbug
22:03<user1976>the first boot device in the Bios is Sata1 (where Ubuntu is installed)
22:03-!-michaelo [~michaelo@adsl-71-147-192.gsp.bellsouth.net] has joined #debian
22:04<user1976>can I boot winbug from grub?
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22:05<abrotman>user1976: if you want ubuntu support, go to #ubuntu on irc.freenode.net
22:05<user1976>is grub support
22:05<event_done>hi. iceweasel just took on a very 'gnome' look to it... and i see now that xchat has done the same. definitely not the kde plastic feel it had before. what could change something like this? that make any sense?
22:05-!-pizza [~pizza@91-67-163-244-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit []
22:06<user1976>dont u think?
22:06<abrotman>user1976: but how is it Debian related ?
22:06<event_done>or is this more xorg related?
22:06<user1976>cause Ubuntu is based on Debian
22:06<event_done>!based
22:06-!-alephnull [~alok@122.172.111.118] has joined #debian
22:06<event_done>:(
22:06<abrotman>user1976: please go to #ubuntu on irc.freenode.net
22:06<abrotman>event_done: lenny?
22:07<event_done>yeah
22:07<event_done>fresh install
22:07<user1976>are you kicking me?
22:07<abrotman>and you didn't install/change settings ?
22:07<abrotman>user1976: we're asking you to please go to the correct channel to get support, this isn't it
22:07<event_done>not that i know of.
22:07<event_done>i'll double check
22:07<abrotman>event_done: tried logging out/in again ?
22:07<user1976>ok
22:07<user1976>thansk
22:08<user1976>thanks
22:08<event_done>abrotman: i'll try as soon as this thing i'm doing is done.
22:08-!-arndot [~arndt@port-92-196-112-49.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #debian
22:08<event_done>i'm not seeing some fonts. courier in particular
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22:15<lucas_>hi
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22:31<johnfg>help register
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22:33<johnfg>hi folks
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22:50<johnfg>Hey guys, how can I change the resolution size of squeeze in virtualbox running on lenny. It's *huge*!
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22:53<interbird>installed the addtions? (only with the non-ose version) Try to use the system->preferences->screen resolution entry from the gnome menu of the guest
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23:08<johnfg>interbird, Using the preferences>screen resolution doesn't work. In fact, it makes the system keep trying to login.
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23:08<johnfg>What additions were you talking about?
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23:12<interbird>virtualbox (i don't know if the ose version has that) has "additions" you can install which take some care of mouse and video-stuff; are you using the ose version from the debian repository or the .deb from the virtualbox website ?
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23:17<interbird>these "addidions" are "drivers" for use in the guest-os; like seamless mouse and video; dunno if the ose-version has that
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23:34<richard_>anyone know if there's a channel where I might find Debian Kernel Team people?
23:35<adb>for ?
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23:36<interbird>#debian-kernel
23:37<richard_>cheers
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---Logclosed Wed Jun 24 00:00:08 2009