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#debian IRC Logs for 2010-01-07

---Logopened Thu Jan 07 00:00:17 2010
---Daychanged Thu Jan 07 2010
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00:13<Wooga>what should i do to make nfs-kernel-server use static ports to be able DNAT them over nat?
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00:13<pipe>You need to do a lot of things
00:13<Wooga>well, can you at least show me direction?
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00:15<pipe>NFS3 consists of a couple of separate systems
00:15<pipe>portmapper, statd, mountd, etc..
00:15<pipe>Each are configured differently. You'll find some info in /etc/default/nfs-kernel-server and /etc/default/nfs-common
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00:16<pipe>I think one of these is a kernel option too
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00:16<pipe>This mess is why it would be nice to use NFS4 instead
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00:17<Wooga>well, it not seems like i can have nfs4 on my debian testing
00:17<Wooga>so i have to fight with all this things
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00:19<pipe>Wooga: http://www.buro9.com/blog/2009/12/07/nfs-static-ports/
00:19<pipe>seems to be a nice guide
00:19<Wooga>thanks!
00:19<pipe>but prepare for headache, and wireshark is your friend here
00:20<pipe>You also have to watch out for /etc/hosts.allow and .deny
00:20<Wooga>i did that once before, but already forgetten all thins i have to do
00:20<Wooga>so i am not really afraid :)
00:21<pipe>It's sad that the easiest way to get network filesystem in linux is with samba
00:21-!-pegassus [~pegassus@189.229.56.252] has joined #debian
00:21<nixeagle>there are some packages that are not tagged, like cvc3-el, how do I get that tagged?
00:22<kop>Wooga: You might be better off doing something like running OpenVPN, which will secure the connection and make it unnecessary to NAT/have static ports.
00:22-!-pegassus [~pegassus@189.229.56.252] has quit []
00:22<Wooga>no, i am afraid of vpns
00:22<pipe>they do not kill you
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00:23<kop>Wooga: Sheesh, a simple ssh with port forwarding is a vpn.
00:23<Wooga>well, ssh is ok
00:23<Wooga>but pppd is demon
00:24-!-doomcup [~doomcup@adsl-240-57-26.jan.bellsouth.net] has joined #debian
00:24<kop>Wooga: ppp is just a tunnel, and not really vpn related.
00:24<Wooga>oh
00:24<Wooga>poor stupid me
00:24-!-jrabbit [~jackirssi@64-126-53-193.dyn.everestkc.net] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting]
00:25<kop>!tell Wooga about pppd
00:27<kop>Wooga: You may be thinking of pptp, which is a lame VPN that MS uses.
00:27<nixeagle>Also how do I select more packages while aptitude is downloading some. Its kinda silly that I have to wait for it to finish downloading.
00:27<Wooga>yeah, all almoust providers in my country have billings on pptp
00:28<Wooga>its just headache to get ppp and pptp-linux packages without internet
00:28<Wooga>almoust all*
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00:29<kop>nixeagle: The database needs to be locked to keep multiple concurrent changes from corrupting it. (It may be that it could be better engineered so as not to require so much locking, or not.)
00:29<kop>Wooga: You don't want pptp if you can help it.
00:29-!-jrabbit [~jackirssi@64-126-53-193.dyn.everestkc.net] has joined #debian
00:30<nixeagle>kop: ah ok. gentoo portage handles it so I know its possible
00:30<pipe>everything is possible
00:30<pipe>with computers
00:30<nixeagle>yep
00:30-!-alvarezp [~alvarezp@201.160.167.202.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has joined #debian
00:30<pipe>it's just a question of how much overhead and complexity you want :)
00:30<nixeagle>anyway how do I get tags added?
00:31<nixeagle>I'm finding a bunch of stuff missing tags they should have
00:31<nixeagle>especially math packages
00:31<nixeagle>octave3.2-emacsen has no tags but octave3.0-emacsen does
00:31<kop>nixeagle: Worst case you repackage the deb and add your own tags. I can't help but there's info on how to do it at debian.org. What you probably want to do is submit bug reports with reportbug so that the package maintainers do it.
00:31<nixeagle>kop: yeah thats what I want, but its not something I can do myself without reportbug?
00:32-!-sney` [~sney@S010600508b2f6457.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: butts]
00:32<kop>nixeagle: I don't know. I'd repackage. That would do it. There's a utility, but I don't know what it is.
00:33<nixeagle>kop: how would my repackaging help though? I submit that with the bugreport?
00:33<pipe>hum
00:33<nixeagle>The idea is getting the changes into debian ^-^
00:33<kop>nixeagle: It wouldn't help anybody but you and the folks you share your repackaged stuff with.
00:33<pipe>nixeagle: but you don't want to do it with reportbug?
00:33<nixeagle>kop: yeah, not what I want
00:34<nixeagle>pipe: well I can, no problem but I'd be sending at least 25 or 30 bug reports
00:34<kop>nixeagle: You might be able to volunteer to repackage, somehow, but it sounds unlikely to be eaiser for the package maintainers to coordinate than doing it themselves.
00:34<nixeagle>That is just what I found already
00:34<kop>nixeagle: That's what bug reports are for.
00:34<nixeagle>alrighty then.
00:34<pipe>25-30 reports sounds fine
00:34<kop>nixeagle: It'd be wishlist items.
00:34<pipe>sounds about 25-30 times better than one huge report with all packages in them :)
00:34<nixeagle>alright tags are wishlist
00:35<nixeagle>well when apt finishes here, I'll restart emacs and check out M-x reportbug or whatever the emacs command is. I used reportbug from the shell, but I"d rather use my emacs ;)
00:36<pipe>let's start a vim vs. emacs war
00:36<kop>Speaking of which I submitted bug #552029 months ago, with a patch and have heard nothing back. The boot process does not play nice with swap on lvm. Anybody have a clue as to how I can either push this upstream or get some sort of response?
00:36<nixeagle>pipe: no thanks
00:36<kop>nixeagle: reportbug will use $EDITOR, so if you set that to emacs you'll be in friendly territory.
00:36<nixeagle>kop: no no no, I want to use M-x reportbug ;) emacs command
00:37<nixeagle>no nasty shell ;)
00:37<nixeagle>Not that I'm afraid of it or anything, just I prefer emacs over zsh or bash any day
00:37-!-ikkerus [~admin@p548F77E2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian
00:38<kop>nixeagle: So use it as your shell. It does that. No worries.
00:38<nixeagle>kop: I know, but there is a debian package that lets me do this with elisp
00:38<nixeagle>that is when it finishes downloading ;)
00:39<gsimmons>kop: Uh, you did receive a response for #552029.
00:40<kop>gsimmons: Thanks. Golly. My dog must have eaten it. ;)
00:42<nixeagle>oh wow debian bts is absolutely amazing wrt how it automatically generates a list of installed things that the thing you are reporting a bug in depends on ^-^. Very cool
00:42<kop>In order to test my patch I have to run sid. Which I don't. :-P *sigh* I may have to bite the bullet and come up with more disk space.
00:42<kop>nixeagle: That's apt for you. Does what it's supposed to.
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00:43<nixeagle>kop: yeah very impressive :)
00:43<pipe>debian = bestest
00:43<nixeagle>this is my first day on debian :)
00:43<kop>nixeagle: You can do the same with apt-cache.
00:43<pipe>not that I've really used any other distro for a prolonged time, but..
00:44<nixeagle>I've used archlinux, gentoo, and a few others for 3 years. ^-^ I think I'm sticking with debian now
00:44<gsimmons>kop: Could you reproduce the failure conditions in a VM? (e.g. QEMU's -m option)
00:44<kop>Is there any reason why I shouldn't run sid in virtualbox?
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00:45<kop>gsimmons: I need to pick a vm. (And come up with the disk space.)
00:45<pipe>Tried to install arch twice, first time it failed because it couldn't find my virtual disks in KVM, second time it failed because my CPU was too old..
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00:45<kop>nixeagle: Stable gets old. I don't care. I want something that works. Eventually it becomes new again. ;-)
00:46<pipe>kop: virtualbox is easy
00:46<pipe>kop: KVM is worth learning if you want to virtualize more
00:46<kop>pipe: I don't have the hardware.
00:46-!-goodger [~ben@host81-152-235-103.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #debian
00:46<pipe>ah
00:47-!-brendan_ [~brendan@ResNet-35-241.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [Quit: brendan_]
00:47<kop>nixeagle: (Something that works -- and has security updates.)
00:48<nixeagle>kop: hehe, well I installed sid. Well really I installed stable, saw that it had outdated packages so I thought I should install testing. So I do that using debootstrap from gentoo... while its installing I read the FAQ which recommends sid over testing. So I'm on my 3rd debian install in 48 hours :)
00:49<pipe>Uhm
00:49<pipe>what FAQ recommended sid over testing?
00:49<nixeagle>http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-choosing.en.html
00:50<kop>nixeagle: YMMV.
00:50<kop>pipe: Can I run lvm in virtualbox?
00:50<pipe>kop: of course
00:51<nixeagle>ymmv?
00:51<pipe>It seems like all information regarding sid vs. testing is written by someone that got burnt by his favourite package being broken for some time :)
00:51<nixeagle>oh your milage may vary
00:51<pipe>I've run testing for years without having any issue there
00:51<kop>!ymmv
00:51<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, ymmv is an abbreviation of "Your mileage may vary."
00:51<pipe>Except the occasional package that don't want to upgrade
00:52<nixeagle>kop: well put it this way, I've run gentoo testing for 2 years. I'm no stranger to broken stuff. I find it fun for some reason :)
00:52<pipe>You never learn unless something breaks
00:52<nixeagle>exactly!
00:52<kop>pipe: virtualbox would seem to be the ticket for me then.
00:52<pipe>kop: yeah, virtualbox is slick
00:52<nixeagle>sid had me worried for a bit too, I spent an hour looking for aptitude to report something broken!
00:52<kop>pipe: Enough breaks anyway. It's simple enough to break things myself. I don't need other people helping. :-)
00:54<pipe>I guess the best compromize is stable and then compile new packages you need from source/upstream
00:54<nixeagle>oh and then after it does find something broken, I start reading the manual, started another install and I come back and aptitude fixed it for me
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00:55*nixeagle facepalms
00:55<pipe>Then again, the more people running testing/sid, the faster a new stable can be released..
00:55<nixeagle>it would be wonderful if something broke ^-^
00:57<nixeagle>oh cool, something has a memleak
00:58<kop>pipe: I use backports. Generally if it's feasible to recompile they've already done it.
00:59<kop>pipe: Backports have worked so well I've been using debian for years and not had to figure out how to build my own .deb. Which is lame, but I've had other things to do.
00:59<pipe>nice
01:00<pipe>nixeagle: "find / -type f | sort -R | head | sudo xargs rm" <- if you want something to break :)
01:00<kop>pipe: Sheesh. Just tell find to report leaves first.
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01:01<nixeagle>pipe: oh no I don't want to break it
01:01<nixeagle>I want something to break, its sid for crying out loud
01:01<babilen>nixeagle: rc-alert -> fix all bugs
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01:02<babilen>!tell nixeagle -about harden
01:02<nixeagle>oh wow babilen
01:02<babilen>nixeagle: that should give you something to do
01:03-!-olpcfan_ [~a@d24-235-185-28.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #debian
01:03*nixeagle reads
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01:04<pipe>!tell pipe -about harden
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01:05<babilen>pipe: /msg dpkg <topic> ;-)
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01:05<babilen>!tell nixeagle -about secure debian
01:06<nixeagle>babilen: oh I'm already reading the site
01:06<babilen>nixeagle: have fun. I would start with the rc bugs (much appreciated), then implement applicable systems from the 'secure debian manual' and then venture into something like pax
01:07<nixeagle>babilen: well the problem is I've never done anything debian before. So how do even start with the bugs?
01:07<babilen>nixeagle: which version of debian do you use?
01:07<nixeagle>I mean I've done kde triage before (for 4.0), had the most closed bugs in a month once.
01:07<nixeagle>sid
01:08<nixeagle>I've done gentoo ebuilds and gentoo triage
01:08<babilen>nixeagle: you've never done anything debian before and you use sid?
01:08<nixeagle>yep, I'm insane
01:08<babilen>nixeagle: anyway, see if you can reproduce them. and try to find a fix ...
01:08<nixeagle>alright, standard triange stuff?
01:09<kop>nixeagle: apt-get source foo is the way to start. (make sure to cd to an empty directory first.)
01:09<nixeagle>or are these all known outstanding
01:09<babilen>nixeagle: if you can't reproduce them, write a followup on the bugtracker that details your steps and setup. use reportbug to do so
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01:09<nixeagle>ok, and if I can I guess I'll ask here
01:09<kop>nixeagle: You will also want to use aptitude to install build dependencies. Those don't automatically install.
01:10<nixeagle>kop already did that
01:10<kop>nixeagle: (usually the packages ending in -dev)
01:10<babilen>nixeagle: yes, rc-alert lists all open rc-bugs of packages that are installed on your system
01:10<nixeagle>oh wow ;)
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01:10<babilen>nixeagle: these are the bugs that hinder the squeeze release
01:10<nixeagle>gentoo's bts is austere compared to this
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01:11<nixeagle>first let me install htop and figure out whats eating my ram
01:11*kop prefers ps
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01:12<pipe>top, then shift+m
01:13<nixeagle>I know how to use it, just prefer the pretty colors of htop
01:13<babilen>nixeagle: try 'bts -mbox show #bug_number' (bts is in the devscripts package)
01:14<nixeagle>oh sweet ;) I have a program eating 100% of both cores
01:14<nixeagle>let me figure this out first
01:15<nixeagle>as root no less
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01:18<nixeagle>ok at least stopped that, was some 16 processes
01:19<nixeagle>babilen: bts: could not read mbox file! is what I get from that, removing -mbox causes it to return with no output at all
01:21<nixeagle>mm actually I'll be right back, I need to restart emacs. I'll be back in 2 minutes
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01:21<pipe>so it's true
01:21<pipe>he's using emacs as his operating system
01:21*babilen wonders when Debian/kEmacs will be released
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01:22<nixeagle>ok sorry about that
01:23<goodger>babilen: it's more Debian emacs/Linux
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01:24<cesurasean>how do i get a UUID for an existing RAID 1 config? i accidentally changed mine....
01:24<babilen>nixeagle: --mbox should open a mail reader (i assume you use gnus) .. it works fine with mutt
01:24<babilen>goodger: right :-D
01:24<nixeagle>M-x debian-bug works ;)
01:24<babilen>cesurasean: run 'blkid'
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01:24<cesurasean>it seems the newer kernels is having a panic with the k7 motherboard in squeeze, btw.
01:25<cesurasean>this was previously fixed, i thought, but now it's doing it again with the new kernel.
01:25<babilen>nixeagle: you can open your other eye, we won't mind
01:25<cesurasean>blkid will work from busybox?
01:25<babilen>cesurasean: yes, why shouldn't it?
01:25<jm_>cesurasean: blkid doesn't work?
01:25<jm_>doh too late
01:26<nixeagle>babilen: yea but I have not set it up on debian yet. A bunch of my gentoo emacs configs were incompatible ^-^ so I did some major surgery (read lots of removed requires) to get any emacs up
01:26<cesurasean>is blkid the CURRENT UUID though? or what the real UUID is? i changed it, remember....
01:26<nixeagle>oh: bts show 1 opens it in firefox
01:27<nixeagle>mmm let me try reporting one of these missing tag bugs for starters
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01:27<cesurasean>i am getting the UUID that i entered in. is that the same as what it should be?
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01:27<cesurasean>i remember the UUID was different from what i changed it to.
01:28<babilen>cesurasean: If you've permanently changed the UUID you should use that. And I would assume that blkid reports the current UUID. Why did you change it btw?
01:30<cesurasean>so it's ok that i permanently changed it? what i changed, and what blkid is showing are the same...
01:30<cesurasean>am i ok?
01:30<cesurasean>it told me to add a line, and i misread and thought it wanted me to change the entire boot line in grub.
01:31<nixeagle>oh wow this is very nice (debian-bug)
01:31<cesurasean>because the k7 is going to busybox with the squeeze kernel.
01:31<nixeagle>See http://paste.nixeagle.org/debian-report-bug-levels - This came up in a new buffer when it asked for what severity level I wanted to report as.
01:32<cesurasean>ive had lots of issues with this older k7 motherboard and the kernel panics for whatever reason. i think its linked to acpi problems from what people have told me before.
01:32<cesurasean>babilen, so whatever blkid shows is what should be listed inside my mdadm.conf?
01:33<babilen>cesurasean: I would think so. I never had the urge to change my UUIDs though ... But if that is indeed the UUID you should use that.
01:33<cesurasean>ok
01:33<cesurasean>it may have given me the same UUID inside the error message, not sure why it would even give me a different one, but i want to make sure that is correct.
01:34<cesurasean>ill play around and see if i can finally get a boot. come back if i need anything. thx
01:35<nixeagle>See http://paste.nixeagle.org/debian-bug-mail - I like this very much
01:35<nixeagle>mind you my email is messed up
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01:37<nixeagle>btw I'll look at the security stuff more tomorrow, I need a bit of time to figure things out first
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01:59<cesurasean>ok, i got it to boot.
01:59<cesurasean>will work on it tomorrow sometime now that httpd is back up. thx guys
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02:26<cyclone>i want to see a sex web ,anybody can help me?
02:27-!-goodger_ [~ben@host81-152-235-103.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #debian
02:27<pipe>sure
02:27<pipe>http://www.google.com/search?q=sex%20web
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02:29<cyclone>?
02:30-!-lbt [~david@78.32.229.233] has joined #debian
02:30<pipe>sex web
02:31<babilen>o_O
02:31<pipe>I have no idea what you mean with that, but there's googles view of it :)
02:32<cyclone>hehe!
02:32<babilen>cyclone: Do you have a Debian related question?
02:34<cyclone>yeah,my virtualbox's kernel drive can't be modprobe!
02:35<babilen>!confuse cyclone
02:35<cyclone>but i don't know how to ask?
02:35<dpkg>Yes, where was their hamster today, cyclone? Lederhosen of the Democracy of Swaziland with extra herring.
02:35<babilen>cyclone: You don't modprobe drives. And I am not aware of a 'kernel drive' too.
02:35<pipe>I have herring in the fridge
02:35<pipe>pickled
02:36<pipe>But I'm Swedish.
02:36-!-alephnull_ [~alok@122.172.156.12] has joined #debian
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02:36*babilen had fish for breakfast
02:37<pipe>hm, maybe..
02:37<pipe>he's trying to boot a debian in virtualbox
02:37<pipe>and then the kernel can't find the root filesystem
02:37<cyclone>no
02:37<pipe>ok :(
02:37<cyclone>i am trying to boot a XP in virtualbox
02:37<babilen>cyclone: and?
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02:39<cyclone>but when i try sudo apt -get install virtualbox-ose,i am told that the kernel can't be modprbe
02:39<cyclone>you can try dmesg
02:39<babilen>cyclone: Use aptitude, paste the output to http://paste.debian.net (you might want to include 'dmesg | tail -n 23' too)
02:40-!-wozza__ [~Wozza@shell2.webquarry.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:40<pipe>"23" wtf :)
02:40-!-Spami|Thug [~Spami|Thu@ALyon-153-1-86-197.w86-206.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian
02:41<cyclone>thank you !i will try it!
02:41<babilen>pipe: 42 would be a bit much
02:41<pipe>yeah ok
02:41<jm_>why not use virtualbox-ose-modules-2.6-foo?
02:41-!-andrea [~andrea@host50-245-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
02:42-!-andrea is now known as Guest1062
02:42*pipe don't like that you simply can't use virtualbox if you also use kvm :(
02:42<cyclone>no!
02:42-!-Guest1062 [~andrea@host50-245-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:42<babilen>cyclone: no?
02:43<pipe>no.
02:43<cyclone>i am not use KVM!
02:43<babilen>cyclone: the modules are need in order to run virtualbox-ose on the host system
02:43<pipe>cyclone: are you from china?
02:43<cyclone>yes!
02:43<pipe>cool
02:44<cyclone>and you?
02:44<pipe>sweden, but I've been to china, I liked it.
02:44<pipe>I also know that porn is illegal there, so that's why you want to watch it :)
02:44<cyclone>i am in beijing !welcome to beijing!
02:44-!-CosmicB [~joar@195.159.98.150] has joined #debian
02:44<babilen>!ot
02:44<dpkg>Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic (i.e. Debian support); imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day. #debian-offtopic is the place for longer off-topic discussions.
02:45<cyclone>Please install the virtualbox-ose-source package.
02:45<babilen>!zh
02:45<dpkg>it has been said that cn is China, or for help in chinese please join irc.oftc.net #debian-zh, Please use UTF-8, for IRC help see http://tinyurl.com/8yrj9 | Qt/KDE è¿æ¸¡æå¼å§ï¼è¯¦æ请é读
02:45<pipe>incidentally, the spam from dpkg is longer than our occasional offtopic discussions
02:47<cyclone>if i need leave here to another discussions?
02:48<pipe>you can be on both channels
02:48<pipe>and you can still ask here if you do not get help somewhere else
02:48<cyclone>but how can i go to another?
02:48<pipe>type "/join #debian-zh"
02:49<cyclone>where to type?terminal?
02:49<babilen>cyclone: 这是用英文的频道。 清打 /j #debian-zh
02:49<pipe>in irssi
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02:50<babilen>cyclone: But you are welcome to stay in this channel and speak English. Just wanted to let you know.
02:51<cyclone>thank you !
02:51<jm_>nice little buildings and other fancy stuff displayed
02:51<pipe>:)
02:52<babilen>cyclone: 不客气
02:52<babilen>cyclone: You have to install the modules *and* the virtualbox-ose package. I would install the applicable modules first and verify that they work correctly.
02:53<pipe>cyclone: oh, you are using ubuntu?
02:53<cyclone>yes!
02:53<cyclone>9.10
02:53-!-munga_ [~abate@ANice-152-1-44-134.w86-193.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian
02:53<pipe>!ubuntu
02:53<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it is unlikely to live up to Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu (irc.freenode.net) instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian>.
02:53<babilen>cyclone: This channel is for Debian support. Join #ubuntu on irc.freenode.net to get help with Ubuntu. (Or install Debian to get help here)
02:53<cyclone>and i have used the BT4 in my another computer
02:54-!-Torsten_W [~towo@port-212-202-129-192.static.qsc.de] has joined #debian
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02:55<cyclone>ok!i think i can solve my own's problems!i just want to talk with you!
02:56<pipe>that's fine, spreading open source and free software to china is important
02:56-!-darthwriter [~darthwrit@adsl-222-152-46.clt.bellsouth.net] has joined #debian
02:56<babilen>+1
02:57<cyclone>ubuntu is popular in china!
02:57-!-darthwriter [~darthwrit@adsl-222-152-46.clt.bellsouth.net] has quit []
02:57<cyclone>i use it just becase my problems can be solve in google or baidu!
02:58<perk>pipe, you are swedish :-)
02:58<cyclone>i am just a networkers!
02:58<pipe>perk: yes yes, ok
02:59<pipe>Now I should try installing i2p in debian
03:00<cyclone>[ 2978.377397] vboxdrv: version magic '2.6.31.6 SMP mod_unload modversions CORE2 ' should be '2.6.31-17-generic SMP mod_unload modversions 586 '
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03:01<babilen>cyclone: You might want to take a look at Debian though. Ubuntu is really not supported in here. Happy to hear that you are using free software though.
03:02<cyclone>if ubuntu and debian is so diffrent?
03:02<pipe>Not very different
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03:03<babilen>cyclone: the main difference for you is that you have to ask for support in #ubuntu and not here. You are welcome to install Debian and enjoy support in here - but until then #ubuntu it is ;-)
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03:04<cyclone>OK!i have the last question!if all you have droped XP or WIN7?and if it is true how you are play game?
03:04<pipe>I play free games, there are great games
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03:05<pipe>Battle for Wesnoth is one, Widelands is another that I like
03:05<cyclone>just as CStrike?
03:05<babilen>cyclone: some games are supported by wine. There are also a bunch of free games that run on Linux
03:05<babilen>!tell cyclone -about wine
03:05<pipe>I have no experience of any first person shooters
03:05<cyclone>i have used the wine!
03:06-!-bagoes [~bagoes@124.81.81.90] has joined #debian
03:06<perk>openarena and nexuiz are good
03:06<babilen>cyclone: I am leaving now. Good luck - install Debian and have a nice day.
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03:06<cyclone>bye!
03:06-!-bagoes [~bagoes@124.81.81.90] has quit []
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03:06<subaeroux>whats the easiest way to get tvout working for nvidia
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03:07<pipe>subaeroux: installing windows, probably, but I suppose that's not what you wanted to hear? :)
03:07<babilen>cyclone: do you use 32bit or 64bit ?
03:07<subaeroux>lol
03:07-!-fossiiil [irctalker@95.85.213.145] has quit []
03:07<subaeroux>id prefer to avoid that route
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03:08<subaeroux>ive installed the proprietary driver
03:08<babilen>subaeroux: Just in case: There is #nvidia on irc.freenode.net
03:08<pipe>Having very little experinve, with ati I've always used xrandr, but I always have to google for it
03:08<babilen>cyclone: http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/index.html.zh_CN
03:09<grondilu>Hi, I can't manage to kill my running firefox session. "ps -e|grep firefox" gives "3711 ? 04:35:04 firefox-bin" but "kill 311" doesn't change anything. Neither does "kill -1 3711".
03:09<pipe>grondilu: kill -KILL 3711
03:10<pipe>(-9)
03:10<babilen>grondilu: and use 'pgrep'
03:10<grondilu>pie: THKS !
03:10<pipe>mmm... pie
03:10<grondilu>pipe, sorry
03:10<grondilu>thanks anyway
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03:10<cyclone>/etc/init.d/vboxdrv.dpkg-bak: line 301: /usr/share/virtualbox/src/vboxdrv/build_in_tmp: 没有该文件或目录
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03:11<babilen>cyclone: this channel is for DEBIAN support *not* for UBUNTU support. And you have to use English in here
03:11<cyclone>i am sorry!
03:12<cyclone>just a mistake!
03:12<babilen>cyclone: Just install Debian and be a happy Debian user ... http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/index.html.zh_CN
03:12<goodger_>babilen: he was quoting his computer, to be fair..
03:12<babilen>i know ...
03:12<pipe>but he's still using ubuntu :)
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03:13<subaeroux>ubuntu =100000000x greater
03:13<subaeroux>oops
03:13<subaeroux>debian rather
03:13<subaeroux>hahaha
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03:13<pipe>ubuntu is nice
03:13<pipe>good complement to debian
03:13<babilen>cyclone: Really, you are very welcome here if you use Debian, but we can't/don't support Ubuntu in here.
03:14<subaeroux>i find ubuntu very heavy
03:14<pipe>of course it is
03:14<pipe>but that doesn't matter if you're just lazy and have a fast computer
03:14<pipe>(for most people)
03:14<pipe>also, when you've used ubuntu for a while it's easy to switch to debian
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03:14<pipe>but if you're coming from windows, it's probably easier to start with ubuntu
03:15<cyclone>do you mean!debian is so light!can run a early computer?
03:15<cyclone>NO!
03:15<pipe>cyclone: yes, I run debian on a 233Mhz laptop with 64MB ram
03:15-!-trifolio6 [~h@84.127.76.208.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #debian
03:15<cyclone>i have try fedora then freebsd!then ubuntu!
03:15-!-virm [~alex@74-144-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #debian
03:16<babilen>cyclone: try Debian ... you will not regret it! Trust me on this ...
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03:16<cyclone>where can i download it?
03:16<babilen>cyclone: 真的!
03:16<babilen>!tell cyclone -about netinstall
03:16<babilen>cyclone: http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/index.html.zh_CN
03:16<cyclone>but my computer is interl P8700?
03:17<cyclone>not amd
03:17-!-virm [~alex@74-144-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit []
03:17<jm_>amd64 signifies architecture, not a cpu
03:17<jmm>hi.
03:17-!-olpcfan [~a@d24-235-185-28.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #debian
03:17<babilen>cyclone: it's the 64bit version of Debian.
03:17<cyclone>OH!
03:17-!-diggy [~digger@95.111.132.20] has joined #debian
03:17<cyclone>OK!
03:17<babilen>!why amd64
03:17<dpkg>The Debian architecture that runs on 64-bit processors from AMD and Intel is called "amd64" because the architecture was first developed by AMD. AMD64 is variously known as x86-64, x64, IA-32e, EM64T, EMT64 and Intel 64 (most of which are the Intel marketing people changing their mind). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64.
03:18<cyclone>if have chinese edition?
03:18<babilen>cyclone: Debian works great with Chinese
03:18<cyclone>OK!
03:18<cyclone>i will download it now !
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03:20<cyclone>anybody can tell me where i can download it?a link
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03:21<perk>cyclone, check a few lines up
03:22<cyclone>just a cd ?is it FULL edition?
03:22<jmarsden>cyclone: You can install more over the network later.
03:23<cyclone>and amd 64 i 386 ia 64 multi-arch trace
03:23<cyclone>which should i choose?
03:23<pipe>amd64
03:23<cyclone>my computer is a laptop and CPU is p8700
03:23<pipe>maybe i386
03:23<pipe>how much memory do you have?
03:24<cyclone>2G
03:24<cyclone>and it has 5 DVDS?
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03:25<pipe>cyclone: I would take the i386 version I think
03:25<pipe>cyclone: and just download the netboot, it should be around 180MB
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03:26<perk>for the p8700 core 2 duo i would install amd64
03:27-!-mode/#debian [+l 355] by debhelper
03:27<pipe>Oh, it's that hot
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03:28<cyclone>bt-cd bt-dvd iso-bd iso-cd iso-dvd jigdo-bd
03:28<pipe>I just reason that since it's a laptop, you're not likely to upgrade the memory, and i386 might still be slightly more supported if you want to run games in wine or use proprietary hardware drivers
03:28<cyclone>which should i choose?
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03:30<cyclone>i386 and amd64 ,what are they diffrence?
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03:31<jmarsden>cyclone: One is 32bit, one is 64bit. if you have a modern 64bit CPU and multiple GB of RAM, pick 64bit. if you have an old 32bit CPU, pick 32bit.
03:32<cyclone>a single 2G memory!it seems it is not suits the 64bits!
03:32<pipe>you don't need much memory for 64bit
03:33<cyclone>but if it is need two channel memory?
03:33<jm_>number of modules doesn't matter
03:34<cyclone>debian-503-i386-DVD-1.iso debian-503-i386-DVD-2.iso
03:34<cyclone>if all i need to download?
03:34<pipe>only the first
03:34<cyclone>OK!
03:35<pipe>And I would still go for the network install cd
03:35<pipe>it is more flexible
03:35<pipe>and much smaller of course
03:35<cyclone>my god!it is 4G?
03:35<pipe>the network install is 180MB
03:36<pipe>cyclone: look for "-netinst"
03:37<cyclone>which one ? bt-cd bt-dvd iso-bd iso-cd iso-dvd jido or list?
03:37<pipe>iso-cd
03:37<pipe>in the iso-cd you will find netinst
03:37<cyclone>i think i can let more people use debian!
03:38-!-erikyyy [~erik@p4FD9A99A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
03:38<cyclone>becase i am a computer teacher!
03:38<pipe>nice!
03:38<cyclone>^-^
03:38<ravenbird>cyclone: Have you tried http://www.tldp.org/ ?
03:38<pipe>agh no
03:38<pipe>tldp with helpful linux documentation from 1997
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03:39<erikyyy>hello. am trying to automatically change config options with debconf-set-selections and afterwards reinstall package with apt-get install --reinstall. problem is that the apt-get command resets the debconf options i have set. only chance i have is to uninstal package, then preseed it, then install. but uninstaling breaks my system and uninstallls many more packages. how can i stop apt-get --reinstall from resetting my debconf options?
03:39<jmarsden>pipe: http://tldp.org/LDP/intro-linux/html/intro-linux.html # was updated in 2008 and is a pretty good Linux intro...
03:39<cyclone>OK! thank you !
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03:40<cyclone>if just this ?debian-503-i386-CD-1.iso
03:40-!-planet is now known as planet_
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03:41<cyclone>anybody can tell me ?i will install it just tonight!
03:41<pipe>cyclone: yes, you can install debian with that cd
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03:42<cyclone>if just this disk!i will imprinting it !
03:42<pipe>no, you will burn it :)
03:42<cyclone>haha!
03:42<cyclone>yes ,burn it !
03:42<pipe>I don't know if you need more than that
03:42<pipe>Everything important should be on that disc, the rest should be possible to install from internet
03:43-!-jmm_ [~jmm@LPuteaux-156-14-28-187.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian
03:43<planet>.....
03:43-!-planet is now known as beby
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03:44<cyclone>i will try it the first!i hope i will like it !and use it all along
03:44<beby>?
03:45-!-ottoshmidt [~ottoshmid@188.129.225.196] has joined #debian
03:45<pipe>beby: .
03:45<cyclone>thanks you,pipe and everyone ! i will join you at soon!
03:45<beby>yup
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03:51<beby>
03:51<beby>i'm free
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03:55<cyclone>the chinese channel have more taiwayn people!they don't like chinese!
03:55<cyclone>hehe!
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03:56<erikyyy>how do i noninteractivly change debconf options on already installed packages and ensure that the new options really get "activated " ?
03:56-!-subaeroux [~subaeroux@123-2-162-26.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
03:56<Lillymon>I've actually got numerous problems now, but I'll start with the one I most want to see fixed.
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03:57<Lillymon>I usually start Deluge, get the GUI, start the daemon, and it's working. I now start Deluge, it appears in htop, and nothing else happens.
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03:57<Lillymon>This appears to have absolutely nothing to do with anything, it appeared without any warning after a reboot.
03:57<Lillymon>I am completely at a loss for any explanation.
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03:59<pipe>Lillymon: Deluge is divided into two parts, the daemon and the gui
03:59<pipe>Lillymon: for some reason, when you start it now, it seems to just start the daemon
04:00<Lillymon>Yep, deluge-gtk and deluged. Neither of them appear in htop, only one entry, /usr/bin/deluge.
04:00<cyclone>what is deluge?
04:00<pipe>cyclone: bittorrent client
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04:00<cyclone>oh!
04:01<Lillymon>Well something's obviously gone wrong with it, since the GUI typically appears when 'deluge' is started.
04:01<jm_>do you start it in a terminal?
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04:02<pipe>Lillymon: have you tried starting for example deluge-gtk separately from a terminal?
04:02<Lillymon>Not usually, but I tried it. I type 'deluge', hit Enter, and nothing happens. No output, no errors, absolutely nothing.
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04:04<jm_>does it have any debugging options?
04:05<cyclone>if i want to talk with other country's women,what can i do?
04:05<Lillymon>Yes, and it indicates that Deluge thinks it's already running for some reason.
04:06<Lillymon>It's not.
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04:06<cyclone>in chinait is QQ
04:07<Lillymon>This is increasingly ridiculous, it seems nothing works as it should now.
04:07<goodger>welcome to Squeeze
04:08<cyclone>i install it just now ! apt-get install deluge
04:09<Lillymon>I didn't expect quite this much to be broken. It's kind of hard to test any of the graphical applications when X can't stay up long enough to seriously use them.
04:10<cyclone>or if any games is good i can find in linux?
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04:10<Lillymon>I've diagnosed the Deluge problem anyway, and it makes no sense. Deluge doesn't do anything, because it thinks it's already running, so it sends all commands to the non-existent instance of itself. It might as be sending them to /dev/null.
04:11<Lillymon>Should I just reboot again and hope that whatever is it goes away?
04:11-!-D-HUND [~ich@p5B175A6B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian
04:11<Lillymon>I've no particular reason to stay online without it.
04:11<pipe>Lillymon: life is merely an empty shell without torrents :(
04:11<jm_>how does it check then?
04:12<pipe>Lillymon: Did you try to kill all the deluge-related processes?
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04:12<Lillymon>htop lists nothing with the string 'deluge' anywhere in my process, nothing even close to it in fact.
04:12<kjdfok>anyone use samba? i'm trying to get it configured. didn't notice a #samba chan
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04:13<jm_>try #samba on freenode
04:13<cyclone>samba must be used everyone!hehe!
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04:13<pipe>I don't use samba
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04:14<cyclone>how do you to share files for others?
04:14<pipe>NFS
04:15<cyclone>but as i know that is diffcult to access it in windows!
04:15<pipe>No
04:15<pipe>You install "services for unix" from microsoft
04:15<pipe>it's free
04:15<pipe>at least supported in windows xp
04:15<cyclone>it is better than samba?
04:16<melug>what command will I use to list channels in irc?
04:16<babilen>cyclone: 'aptitude' is the default package manager on Debian. Use it instead of 'apt-get'
04:16<pipe>cyclone: It's better if you run linux a lot
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04:16<pipe>cyclone: Samba is better if you mostly have windows machines
04:16<cyclone>my computer has two system another is win7!but it is so frequence to access my harddisk!
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04:17<pipe>cyclone: then you should use samba, there's nothing wrong with samba
04:17<Lillymon>Well that didn't work.
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04:18<Lillymon>I'm reluctant to take particularly strong action to fix Deluge. I had a hell of a lot of torrents seeding, I don't want to rebuild that list from scratch.
04:18-!-hever [~hever@ip-78-94-184-40.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #debian
04:19<pipe>Lillymon: .config/deluge/state
04:19<pipe>Lillymon: or something...
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04:20<Lillymon>If I suddenly stop talking and then go offline, that's either because X has gone insane again, or my ISP has dropped my connection again. Either way, be assured that I will want to kill someone for it.
04:21<pipe>killing is bad
04:21<pipe>unless it's software patent lawyers
04:22<Lillymon>So, I assume this is the stuff that needs to be saved in order to keep that list intact?
04:23<pipe>no idea
04:23<pipe>there are som *.state files in there
04:24<pipe>just backing .config/deluge up and then reinstalling deluge could do the trick
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04:24<Lillymon>Along with a large amount of torrent files, probably the same amount as the number of torrents I had going.
04:25<pipe>indeed.
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04:28<Celtiore>hi from france :p
04:28<Celtiore>i need help please
04:28<pipe>françé
04:28<pipe>well shoot
04:28<pipe>do you want help in french or english?
04:29<Lillymon>Well purging Deluge appears to have made no difference. Deluge STILL thinks it's already running.
04:29<Celtiore>i want to change my Canon laser printer, and i search help about one for using easily with debian
04:29<pipe>Lillymon: Uhm, if you purge deluge you can't check
04:30<pipe>Lillymon: you mean that you installed it again?
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04:30<Lillymon>Yes, purged than reinstalled. I thought that would be the obvious thing to do.
04:31<pipe>yeah
04:31<jm_>Celtiore: any PS printer will be fine if you are prepared to spend more
04:31<Lillymon>At this point I'm willing to do whatever the hell I need to in order to get Deluge running again, but why does it think it's already running? It's nowhere in my processes, so what else could it be looking at?
04:31<jm_>how does it check if it's running already?
04:31<jmarsden>Lillymon: a lock file somewhere... maybe under /var/run somewhere
04:32<pipe>nothing for delugein /var/run/
04:32<jm_>unlikely to be able to write to /var/run for user, please don't tell me it's suid app
04:32<babilen>Celtiore: I had good experience with HP, Epson and Kyocera laser printers ... you might want to gather information about CUPS support for the printers that fit your needs. It is also a good idea to see if the vendor provides PPD files
04:32<Celtiore>jm_, money is not the problem, i just want choose the "better" > brother, HP, samsung ... but not canon :p
04:33<Lillymon>jmarsden: The debug output mentions one, it appears to be a symbolic link.
04:33<pipe>Lillymon: how do you check for processes?
04:33<jm_>Celtiore: we have samsung 550 at work, works fine, we also have some very expensive HP and canon and they also both work fine
04:33<pipe>Lillymon: Because deluge is written in python, so the process is named pythong
04:33<pipe>*python
04:34<Lillymon>I check using htop, and nothing named pythong is running either.
04:34<jmarsden>Lillymon: OK, rename the symlink out the way and see what happens?
04:34<pipe>Lillymon: type "pgrep -l deluge"
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04:35<Lillymon>The symlink was the problem it seems, Deluge is back.
04:35-!-goodger [~ben@host81-152-235-103.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #debian
04:36<pipe>Lillymon: what distribution do you run?
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04:36<Lillymon>Debian Squeeze.
04:36<pipe>ok
04:39<Lillymon>Incidentally, 'pythong' is still not anywhere in my processes. I thought it wouldn't be, I've never seen it before.
04:39<babilen>Lillymon: that was a typo .. It is "python"
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04:40<Lillymon>Ah, well that I can see.
04:41*jmarsden things... pythong: Skimpy underwear for snakes?
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04:42<pipe>jmarsden: no, it's a python module to help catalog your thong collection
04:42<jmarsden>Lillymon: If you think there is a lock file somewhere, maybe find / -type f -iname "*deluge*" would find it?
04:42<Lillymon>I'm tempted to start running OptiPNG again, which I've been doing for a while. But it seems my Xorg problem has a high correlation with high CPU usage. Bit frustating to have such a problem on my Core 2 Duo. I like using this CPU a lot.
04:42<Celtiore>can i paste 2 links concerning Brother HL-2150N (USB 2.0/Ethernet) ?
04:44<pipe>Lillymon: Are you sure it's not a hardware problem
04:44<pipe>Lillymon: High CPU usage = lots of heat
04:44<pipe>Lillymon: lots of heat = might trigger bugs in your graphics card
04:44<babilen>pipe: that would be "python-thong" if the package name follows the Python Policy
04:44-!-Worf_ [~worf@84-119-46-95.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #debian
04:44<pipe>babilen: Sorry, I don't like python so I wouldn't know :)
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04:45<Lillymon>Well I haven't been able to get lm_sensors running for a while, so I'm not exactly able to check my CPU usage. However, I had OptiPNG running for about three days (yes, three whole days) before this problem surfaced.
04:45<babilen>Celtiore: I would rather ask in #cups @ irc.freenode.net
04:45<Lillymon>*usage/temp
04:45<Celtiore>thnaks you
04:45<Lillymon>Oh, sensors is running. 30C right now.
04:45<jmm>olpc is like anus after a mexican dinner.it's ok for now but soon it will be hell.
04:46<babilen>Celtiore: Just check http://linuxprinting.org, try to find a PPD file for the printers and check th CUPS setup instructions for the printers you are considering.
04:46<Lillymon>30C sounds about right, I've never seen this CPU exceed 50C, even under high load when it's hot outside.
04:46<pipe>Lillymon: Then you don't use the default intel heatsink :)
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04:47<pipe>All my cores goes to 70-80 when cracking WPA2 keys
04:47<pipe>..uhm, I mean, when running optipng..
04:47<Lillymon>Actually, I use default everything. Core 2 Duo E6750, standard clockspeed, everything as it came out of the factory.
04:47<jm_>sounds like external sensor, not coretemp sensor
04:48<Lillymon>My Athlon XP 2100+ was a real hot runner. 65C when idle sometimes.
04:48<jm_>no freq. scaling on that one, but it was much cooler with athlon power savings trick
04:49<Lillymon>I actually killed a power supply and video card with the heat problems on that rig. The CPU would've been next, if the whole PC hadn't been knocked off my desk.
04:50<Lillymon>The chassis parallelogrammed from the force. The motherboard was toast.
04:50<pipe>wtf
04:50<pipe>stop using a blowtorch on the computer
04:51*goodger 's laptop hits 82 when playing video
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04:51*pipe 's laptop is a thinkpad so it's constructed by engineers, not marketing people
04:52<Lillymon>According to sensors, 60C is high and 95C is critical. Not sure where it gets that from.
04:52*goodger 's laptop is also a thinkpad
04:52<pipe>Lillymon: that sounds reasonable. 60 is high and 95 is critical :)
04:52<Lillymon>Well I'm doing well then.
04:52<pipe>My core2 quad with default heatsink idles at 32
04:53<jm_>pipe: coretemp or external sensor?
04:53<pipe>jm_: core
04:53<jm_>interesting, my e8200 never goes below 44
04:53<pipe>34, 35, 31, 31 atm, with light load, playing mp3s, running some virtual machines
04:54<pipe>Q6600 here, slightly overclocked.
04:54<jm_>hmm that's same generation as my bro's 6300 which has much higher coretemp values
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04:55<Lillymon>In 14 years of computing, I have never overclocked a CPU. I've had two solid candidates too, but just never felt the need.
04:55<pipe>Maybe it's because I'm very careful with the thermal paste
04:55<cyclone>i come back!
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04:56<jm_>no need to mess with that with box models
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04:57<goodger>I should probably clean out the fans on this thing
04:57<goodger>the memory's already corrupted
04:57<Lillymon>I'm somewhat surprised by this PC. It's about 18 months old, yet still seems pretty current with regards to what I face while computing (except with regard to hard drive space, NEVER enough...).
04:58<pipe>jm_: apparently it is, if I have 32 at idle and you have 44 :)
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04:58<fossiiil>+++ATH0
04:58<fossiiil>sorry
04:58<Lillymon>In 1996, 503MB was all the space I had. Now I could fill that in under an hour.
04:59<locklace>fossiiil: welcome to 1989
04:59<goodger>Lillymon: same can be said of my Athlon 64 box; it runs 99% of everything perfectly, despite being ancient
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04:59<fossiiil>locklace: hello! :-)
04:59<pipe>Lillymon: what slow-ass modem do you have? I fill that in 4 minutes :P
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05:00<Lillymon>pipe: I'm thinking my current connection madness has affected my perceptions. I've got a 6Mbit connection, yet I've been working for over a day to download 7GB. I keep getting cut off for no good reason.
05:01<Lillymon>Deluge suddenly going wrong broke my brain. Connection becomes stable again, torrent client dies, aspiogakuk;ueaarhrahaearhwzsjs#r\o
05:02<pipe>throw that crap out and install rtorrent
05:02<fossiiil>how to download using magnet link?
05:02<cyclone>if debian can be used in server?
05:02<Lillymon>I've tried rTorrent twice, I just never managed to get to grips with it.
05:02<pipe>cyclone: debian is a very good server os
05:03<Lillymon>I've also considered Mutt and Music Player Daemon, but never got to grips with them either. So Icedove and Amarok stay as well.
05:03<cyclone>any bigger computer is using debian?
05:03<cyclone>any bigger compony is using debian?
05:03<fossiiil>NASA?
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05:04<jm_>pipe: some cpu-s come already glued to heatsink, no idea what happens to warranty if one messes with it + I know other people who report higher values, so it's questionable why there are so many different values (also, my system has a gfx card that idles at 52C, which makes for higher system temp.)
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05:07<cahoot>cyclone: http://www.us.debian.org/users/
05:08<cyclone>thank you!
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05:14<cyclone>goodbye!
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05:18<Slydder>hey all
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06:07<misery>ok, so i just installed lenny from 1st 2 cds, and Internet. I tasksel'd graphic workstation, and after reboot, it dumped me to console and i had to run aptitude manually to install the rest. Is that normal?
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06:08<petemc>misery: are you sure you didnt just have a problem starting X ?
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06:09<misery>petemc, well considering none of the xservers or any of the tasksel'd stuff wasnt installed, i'd say: yes :)
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06:09<misery>but thats not the point - i think the post install bit barfed.?
06:09<petemc>misery: how did you verify they werent installeD?
06:10<misery>the fact that i just spent 3 hrs downloading and installing them from aptitude.
06:10<misery>from/with
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06:11<petemc>well, its not normal, the installer works well for most people
06:11<jm_>i remember some weirdness with tasksel, press enter instead of space or vv
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06:12<misery>i remember this happening before. there was a command to run to continue the installation after reboot. Anyone know it?
06:13<jm_>you mean baseconfig? gone in lenny
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06:15<misery>whats its equivalent?
06:15<jm_>!base-config
06:15<dpkg>base-config (obsolete since Etch) was a package to configure a Debian base install. Replaced by a single-stage installer, see http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/RemoveBaseConfig for historical information. To install Debian from Unix/Linux system, ask me about <debootstrap>.
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06:15<misery>!debootstrap
06:15<dpkg>debootstrap can create a basic Debian system from scratch, without apt/dpkg. Useful for installing in a <chroot>. It is key to installing Debian GNU/Linux from a UNIX/Linux system, ask me about <install guide>. http://wiki.debian.org/Debootstrap http://www.debian-administration.org/article/Installing_new_Debian_systems_with_debootstrap
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06:16<misery>hmm, debian-installer must setup some script/command to run on reboot.
06:16<misery>?
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06:20<mib_8skmgwlc49t8>hello!
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06:21<mib_8skmgwlc49t8>so many are here
06:21<pipe>it's just an illusion
06:21<mib_8skmgwlc49t8>:)
06:22<mib_8skmgwlc49t8>i need a solution for a hard problem on my debian system
06:22-!-engy [~engy@user116.77-105-222.netatonce.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
06:23<mib_8skmgwlc49t8>since a day there are no /var/log/{messages,syslog} !
06:23<pipe>/var is full
06:23<mib_8skmgwlc49t8>klogd and syslogd are running and give no error messages
06:23<mib_8skmgwlc49t8>disk is not full
06:24<misery>is it lenny? I read somewhere those were obsoleted by somethingerother else
06:24<mib_8skmgwlc49t8>(there are a little spece, but IS)
06:24<mib_8skmgwlc49t8>no, i ve etch
06:25<pipe>etch.. so the system just got old and tired and died :)
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06:26<cahoot>mib_8skmgwlc49t8: df -i agrees about space left?
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06:27<mib_8skmgwlc49t8>i ve a little machine, there is only ~50 MB free
06:27<mib_8skmgwlc49t8>but that is free
06:27<pipe>and the logs should be written by root
06:27<pipe>so that should be ok
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06:29<lantizia>Lo, I'm using a premade debian opentz template (minimal install of lenny)... before I do anything... what do I need to change to make it English (British) rather than English (American)
06:29<mib_8skmgwlc49t8>old messages,syslog files are root:adm and -rw-r-----
06:29<lantizia>obviously this is a choice I'd normally get when installing and probably affects several things
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06:32<cahoot>configure locales?
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06:34<lantizia>cahoot: yeah... I've already found dpkg-reconfigure tzdata.... but then i suppose theres other bits like keyboard and ispell?
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06:34<cahoot>how about dpkg-reconfigure locales then?
06:35<cahoot> (or am I totally misunderstanding then problem?)
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06:36<oznt>hi everyone
06:38<mib_8skmgwlc49t8>how to reinstall klogd and syslog ?
06:38<oznt>I need help understanding why my forward dns is working but my backwork DNS is not working on my debian server, help would be greatly appreciated
06:38<mib_8skmgwlc49t8>in what package located they?
06:39<jm_>mib_8skmgwlc49t8: why don't you use /usr/bin/dpkg and find out?
06:39<mib_8skmgwlc49t8>oznt: how did you tested your backward dns service?
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06:39<mib_8skmgwlc49t8>jm_: thanks for hint
06:39<oznt>mib_8skmgwlc49t8, I did host 192.168.1.101 192.168.1.1 for example
06:39<jm_>mib_8skmgwlc49t8: dpkg -S
06:40<seeS>oznt: that's reverse dns
06:40<seeS>oznt: as they are private ip addresses you probably don'
06:40<seeS>t have that zone.
06:41<oznt>seeS, sorry for the inaccuracy ... anyways I wanted this to work - but it's failing
06:41<seeS>oznt: you have bind running?
06:41<oznt>seeS, what does it mean I don't have that zone ? I do
06:41<oznt>have it running
06:42<seeS>ok you need a in-addr.arpa zone
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06:42<oznt>in my conf file ?
06:42<seeS>yes your named.conf file
06:43<seeS>zone "1.168.192.in-addr.arpa" { type master; file /etc/bind/db.1.168.192.in-addr.arpa"; };
06:44<oznt>sees, I have exactly this line in my file ...
06:45<oznt>I have this: zone "1.168.192.in-addr.arpa" { type master; file "/etc/bind/db.1.168.192";};
06:45<oznt>ah ! sorry sees
06:45<seeS>yep, so thats the conf file ok
06:45<oznt>my file name if not correct ?!
06:45<seeS>then in db.1.168.192 you have the various lines
06:45<seeS>the filename doesnt matter as long as your file has that name
06:46<oznt>well let me check
06:46<oznt>seeS, ok I have the file name like in the zone line
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06:47<oznt>but should it be name differently ?
06:47<seeS>no, you could call it fred if thats the name of the file
06:47<seeS>ok, so 192.168.1.1 is your linux computer?
06:48<oznt>sees, yes 192.168.1.1 is the internal address of that server
06:48<oznt>node001 is also a debian
06:48<seeS>ok, so does it print an error?
06:48<eddym>hey all
06:48<oznt>yes
06:48<eddym>is there a easy backup of mbr
06:48<eddym>backup and restore of mbr
06:49<oznt>seeS, the error I'm getting is Host 101.1.168.192.in-addr.arpa. not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
06:49<jm_>eddym: partition table or what?
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06:49<oznt>I've pasted my bing conf here http://paste.debian.net/55876/
06:49<eddym>grub
06:49<eddym>boot loader
06:50<eddym>dual boot xp and ubuntu
06:50<seeS>oznt: ah ha!
06:50<jm_>just dump the sector to a file, although I see no real point
06:50<eddym>when i do restore of xp it goes bye bye
06:50<seeS>oznt: your zone file is wrong
06:50<oznt>seeS, can you point out what is wrong ?
06:50<jm_>if another bootloader overwrote it simply reinstall grub
06:50<seeS>oznt: use @ for most lines
06:51<eddym>jm_, i tried b4 with live cd didnt work
06:51<seeS>the 101 line should be 101 IN PTR node001.blah.loc.
06:51<eddym>jm_, the way i was trying to do i
06:51<eddym>t
06:51<jm_>eddym: /msg dpkg fixmbr
06:51<seeS>ie, the 1.168.192...etc gets tacked on
06:51<oznt>seeS, I am afraid I lost you
06:52<eddym>jm_, i made a backup of mbr in my user folder but not sure how to restore it
06:52<eddym>jm_, u have it on a stick
06:53<oznt>seeS, what do you mean ?
06:53<seeS>oznt: make your IN SOA line start with @ IN SOA ..etc..
06:53<jm_>eddym: dd if=/dev/[hs]da of=.../backup.mbr count=1 - restore by reversing the args but be very very careful
06:53<seeS>oznt: make your IN N
06:53<eddym>jm_, i need to be in sudo mode
06:53<seeS>oznt: make your IN NS line have no leftmost entry, eg IN NS 192.168.1.1
06:53<oznt>ok, I try again
06:53<seeS>ozt: make your PTR lines only have the last octet
06:54<jm_>eddym: yes
06:54<eddym>jm_, /dev/sda1 * 1 12837 103110808+ 7 HPFS/NTFS
06:54<eddym>jm_, should it be sda or sda1
06:55<jm_>eddym: sda is where MBR is
06:55<eddym>jm_, thanks
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06:56<eddym>jm_, for some reason couldnt mount the usb drive
06:56<eddym>let me try
06:56<eddym>one sec
06:56<jm_>eddym: cat /proc/partitions
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06:57<oznt>seeS, i did this http://paste.debian.net/55878/, but it still fails . can you look that I understood you ?
06:57<eddym>jm_, 8 0 312571224 sda
06:58<eddym>jm_, cool, brb
06:58<seeS>yes its wrong
06:58<jm_>eddym: so you only have 1 drive
06:58<seeS>oznt: see the SOA line? change that first block of text to @
06:59<oznt>and the rest is the same like I did ?
06:59<seeS>NS line has nothing at first
07:00<seeS> IN NS 192.168.1.1
07:00<seeS>"nothing in first line" = "whatever you had before"
07:02<eddym>jm_, one virtual
07:02<eddym>jm_, i mean 1 physical
07:02<eddym>jm_, /dev/sda1 * 1 12837 103110808+ 7 HPFS/NTFS
07:02<eddym>/dev/sda2 18574 19457 7098840 12 Compaq diagnostics
07:02<eddym>/dev/sda3 12837 16557 29883231+ f W95 Ext'd (LBA)
07:02<eddym>/dev/sda5 12837 12848 87104+ 7 HPFS/NTFS
07:02<eddym>/dev/sda6 12849 16495 29294496 83 Linux
07:02-!-eddym was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
07:02<oznt>seeS, the following is working for me http://paste.debian.net/55879/
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07:03<jm_>eddym: don't paste here, use a pastebin
07:03<eddym_>jm_, yeah noticed that
07:03<eddym_>:-o
07:03<oznt>that is great, thank you very much. BTW, I followed this guide, but I guess it's not the best http://debianclusters.cs.uni.edu/index.php/Reverse_DNS_-_IP_Address_to_Name_(db.yourIPreversed)
07:03<seeS>oznt: its not strictly right but if its working
07:03<eddym_>jm_, show my partition table out of order is that a problem
07:04<jm_>eddym_: probably not
07:04<oznt>so where is the error ? the mistak ? if i do this : IN NS 192.168.1.1 , it does not work
07:04<eddym_>jm_, so mbr is is always on the top level
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07:05<seeS>oznt: you're not supposed to put the full address in the zone files
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07:06<jm_>eddym_: right, master boot record
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07:07<eddym_>jm_, when i run from live cd i need to mount the usb drive first right
07:07<eddym_>and then run the dd cmd?
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07:07<seeS>oznt: the named.conf file, due to the zone line, appends the 1.168.192.in-addr.arpa to non-qualified (ie that dont end in a dot) lines anyhow
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07:08<seeS>same as your forward zone files don't need www.blah.com, just www IN A 10.1.2.3 because the blah.com is implied
07:08<jm_>eddym_: well if the file is on it then yes, but why not simply reinstall grub?
07:08<eddym_>jm_, with a live cd or how?
07:08<oznt>ok, if i do for example: 101 IN PTR node001, is this correct ?
07:08<jm_>eddym_: the way dpkg tells you (/msg dpkg fixmbr)
07:09<oznt>i'm looking here now : seems you are right http://www.aboutdebian.com/dns.htm
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07:10<eddym_>jm_, using ubuntu
07:10<jm_>eddym_: it's mostly the same
07:10<seeS>no, because node001 is not ending in "." so you would get that 192.168.1.101 resolves to node001.1.168.192.in-addr.arpa
07:10<eddym_>jm_, cool
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07:10<seeS>oznt: the correct line is 101 IN PTR node001.whateveryourdomainis.com
07:10<seeS>err
07:10<seeS>oznt: the correct line is 101 IN PTR node001.whateveryourdomainis.com. <-- ends with dot
07:10<eddym_>jm_, will have to try it
07:11<hashitsu>alguem fala portugues?
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07:11<jm_>!pt
07:11<dpkg>Por favor use #debian-pt para ajuda em portugues ou #debian-br para ajuda em portugues do brasil. ( /join #debian-pt )
07:12<eddym_>jm_, dont get this part(mount -t ext2 /dev/whatever /target
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07:12<oznt>ok, that is what I did
07:12<eddym_>jm_, need to know where it boots from hd0,5
07:12<jm_>eddym_: just mount your Linux filesystem somewhere
07:12<oznt>now the line is 101 IN PTR node001.HiPOS64.loc, but you said earlier it's not correct
07:12<eddym_>jm_, cool.. will give a shot
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07:13<jm_>eddym_: also use your path in other commands (chroot)
07:14<seeS>oznt: thats the correct line, you had somethnig different before
07:14<mgusilva>hello
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07:14<seeS>hello mg
07:15<Slydder>am currently working on http://img5.abload.de/img/fernbedienungkleinpk2gvqo.jpg
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07:15<eddym_>jm_, you never used grub rescue cdromiso
07:15<oznt>ok, this is my full file now: http://paste.debian.net/55882/
07:15<jm_>eddym_: i did
07:15<eddym_>jm_, any luck is that automatic?
07:15<oznt>seeS, is this the correct structure ?
07:16<seeS>oznt: replace the PTR line for master64 so it looks like the nodes
07:16<seeS>oznt: id replace the NS line with either a blank or @ at the front too
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07:18<oznt>so the line for PTR master should be : 1 IN PTR maste64.HiPOS.loc.
07:18<jm_>eddym_: no
07:18<seeS>oznt: yes
07:18<seeS>oznt: a good book about DNS is the oreilly one, "DNS and Bind"
07:19<oznt>and finally the last change: @ IN NS 192.168.1.1.
07:19<seeS>oznt: yes
07:19<oznt>nice, it's working great now
07:20<oznt>seeS, I am a M.Sc student, who does that debian cluster for my research. Unfortunately I don't have much time to dive into that... but thanks for the recommendation
07:20<oznt>I appreciate your help
07:21<seeS>oznt: no worries, good luck on your studies!
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07:46<mercutio22>I installed a new hard drive on my machine and cloned my debian installation into it with dd. The I did sudo update-grub2 and the cloned system appear with the correct titles (debian on sdb5). When I choose these new entries I still boot into the old drive though. It seems the dd copied partitions have the same UUIDs as the original ones and grub2 is confused. http://debian.pastebin.com/m79fe5897
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07:46<jm_>mercutio22: why don't you remove the old drive from the system?
07:47<mercutio22>jm_: I am gonna it for another system
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07:47<mercutio22>jm_: wait... when I repartition the old system the uuids will change right?
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07:48<jm_>mercutio22: if you mkfs it yes
07:48<khades>openjdk's app's gui is extremely slow on Debian Lenny amd64
07:48<pipe>it's java
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07:48<mercutio22>jm_: if I use gparted it should change as well right?
07:48<khades>3sec to react on button click
07:48<khades>that is too lame
07:49<jm_>mercutio22: as long as filesystem is recreated
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07:49<mercutio22>jm_: I will remove debian and I will maintain the windows partition on that disk
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07:50<mercutio22>ok, I will give that a shot
07:50<mercutio22>thanks
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08:10<bremner>if /etc/acpi/events is empty, what is handling acpi events on my thinkpad? Currently on squeeze shutting the lid sends the machine into a kind of death-spiral where as soon as it restores it suspends again.
08:10<cahoot>pm-utils?
08:11*bremner investigates
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08:17<bremner>/etc/pm only has a hook for wpa_supplicant, so I don't think so
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08:19<perk>i have a similar issue on my macbook. when i switched to using pm-utils (iirc) it suspends twice... suspend, wake up, suspend, wake up, ok (no more suspends)
08:20<jm_>i've seen reports on lkml saying people need to suspend a laptop twice for it to really suspend
08:22<cahoot>bremner: something in /usr/lib/pm-utils/sleep.d ?
08:22<jm_>bremner: why not look at which apps are checking the files in in /sys?
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08:22<bremner>cahoot: good point
08:22<bremner>jm_ : maybee, but it is a pretty minimalist system, no gnome/kde/what have you
08:23<jm_>bremner: even the old acpid would check those
08:23<bremner>so is acpid obsolete now?
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08:24<jm_>(or the older equivalent /proc/acpi)
08:25<bremner>hmm. I wonder what hald-addon-acpi does
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08:28<bremner>gotta run. must ... not ... shut ... lid...
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08:41<dpander>Would anyone be able to recommend a good place to go for advice on recovering a raid-6 array that was interrupted mid-grow? The grow thread is starting back up but not appearing to progress.
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09:15<mercutio22>it seems my external hd is always automounted with read-only permissions. How can I change that?
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09:15<fnmueller>mercutio22: which filesystem is used?
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09:16<mercutio22>fnmueller: ntfs
09:16<jm_>!ntfs
09:16<dpkg>[ntfs] Windows NT File System. There are 3 main drivers in Debian: the Linux kernel driver only able to read and FUSE drivers able to write too. For information about the former, ask me about <ntfsro>. For information about the read/write access, ask me about <ntfsrw>. See also <ntfsclone>, <ntfsck>, <label>. FAQ: http://linux-ntfs.org/doku.php?id=ntfs-en . http://wiki.debian.org/NTFS http://linux-ntfs.org/
09:16<fnmueller>mercutio22: that is probably your problem
09:16<jm_>mercutio22: ^^^^
09:16<fnmueller>!ntfsrw
09:16<dpkg>If you want read/write access to NTFS filesystems, ask me about <ntfs-3g> or use ntfsmount from the ntfsprogs package (see also #508982 in the <BTS>). See also <user accessible ntfs>.
09:17<fnmueller>!ntfs-3g
09:17<dpkg>ntfs-3g is probably a user-space NTFS driver with write support and good performance. Packaged for Debian, available for Lenny or through backports.org for Etch (ask me about <bpo etch> for instructions). Usage examples: http://www.ntfs-3g.org/#usage . Ask me about <user accessible ntfs>.
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09:19<mercutio22>geez, I will have to edit fstab? it seems pretty outdated. I moved my system to another hard disk..
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09:21<mercutio22>I have ntfs-3g already installed. Shouldn't the ntfs partitions be automounted with read/write access?
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09:24<mercutio22>maybe because of that bug 508982
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09:24<dpander>Fixed the raid6 problem ... the array was somehow set to auto-read-only, but I think it wasn't showing up in mdstat. I upgraded to 3.1.1 and set the array to read-write and it resumed the reshape.
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09:28<mercutio22>ok... my fstab seems totally wrong. Can someone help me with that? http://debian.pastebin.com/m2b37128f
09:28<mercutio22>maybe there's a way to auto-update fstab?
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09:30<perk>mercutio22, afaict you could just switch sda5 and sda6 to sdb5 and sdb6 respectively
09:30-!-spo0nman [~spoonman@122.166.106.120] has joined #debian
09:30<spo0nman>Hi
09:30<Ch3xO>well, hello IRC!
09:30<spo0nman>i'm trying to create a binary only package using dpkg-deb
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09:31<mercutio22>perk: yeah,that sounds reasonable. thanks for the clue. I will give that a try.
09:31<spo0nman>hwo can i add crontab entries that get run bu crontab?
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09:32<spo0nman>The package has only binaries ... but i need to add crontab entries ... how can i get that done?
09:33<perk>spo0nman, drop them in /etc/cron.* or run crontab -e
09:33<mercutio22>perk: since fstab deals with static mount information should it contain info about external devices? I mean I'd like to find a way that any ntfs external hd plugged into my machine was mounted with r&w access
09:34<perk>mercutio22, yes if you want it to be mounted at boot or have an easier way than to specify and entire mount command you can
09:35<mercutio22>perk: what would happen when the device is not plugged in? Just an error message?
09:35<perk>mercutio22, you can set noauto and mount it manually with mount /whatever when it is plugged in
09:36<mercutio22>perk: alright, thanks man.
09:36<lantizia>Hey, if I install off a CD and choose British when it asks for locality... packages prefer to install ibritish over iamerican etc... now I'm using an OpenVZ template of debian, have used dpkg-reconfigure to change locales and tzdata to british... but it still suggests iamerican package when other packages depend on a dictionary pack - is there another part of debian that hold locality information?
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09:43<mercutio22>This is a minor annoyance though. It'd be cool if debian would automount external HDs containing NTFS filesystems with read-write permissions by default. Is there a feature wishlist for debian?
09:45<gdb>mercutio22: You'd make a feature request by opening a wishlist bug against the package you want the new feature in. http://bugs.debian.org/
09:46<mercutio22>gdb: in this case NTFS-3g?
09:47<pipe>no
09:47<pipe>probably not
09:48<pipe>isn't this a gnome/kde/whatever thing?
09:48<mercutio22>pipe: any clues?
09:48<mercutio22>maybe, I think
09:48<Hydroxide>mercutio22: I'd normally say hal would be the right package, but I think the relevant bit of infrastructure is currently in transition in unstable
09:48<pipe>At least I don't expect my clean debian to automount anything by default
09:48<perk>word
09:49<Hydroxide>mercutio22: try to pick the right package, but don't worry if you get it wrong. I also encourage using reportbug or reportbug-ng to report the bug, since that will get it formatted properly. (an email program will suffice if you do it right)
09:49<Hydroxide>mercutio22: bugs can be reassigned from package to package
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09:50<mercutio22>Hydroxide: I tried doing that a couple of times. I find it weird I never got any replies. Does the report-bug program signs the bug report with my mail address?
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09:51<mercutio22>pipe: I mean.. just external devices
09:51<Hydroxide>mercutio22: yes, but it uses your local system's outgoing email infrastructure to send the mail. if that's not set up, check the man page to see if it has options you can use to work around that
09:51<pipe>mercutio22: doesn't make any sense unless you have a desktop system with a logged in user etc
09:51<Hydroxide>mercutio22: you should definitely get at minimum an autoreply from the bug tracking system, and hopefully more of course
09:52<mercutio22>pipe: yeah, exactly.
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09:54<Lantizia>Hey, if I install off a CD and choose British when it asks for locality... packages prefer to install ibritish over iamerican etc... now I'm using an OpenVZ template of debian, have used dpkg-reconfigure to change locales and tzdata to british... but it still suggests iamerican package when other packages depend on a dictionary pack - is there another part of debian that hold locality information?
09:54<mercutio22>Hydroxide: what do you mean by "outgoing email infrastructure"? I use the evolution mail client, but I could configure this other thing I guess
09:55<Hydroxide>mercutio22: I mean, by default it expects that your /usr/sbin/sendmail command will do the right thing for sending mail, which lots of unix-style utilities like cron and /bin/mail end up depending on. however, reportbug does support using an external SMTP server instead - check the man page
09:55<Hydroxide>mercutio22: you can specify it via a config file or command-line options
09:55<Hydroxide>err, /usr/bin/mail on current debian, not /bin/mail.
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09:56<ml|>reportbug works great
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09:57<ml|>I use ~/.reportbugrc here for my settings
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10:01<mercutio22>Hydroxide: should this sendmail have been configured during the debian install process? Maybe I skiped this step accidentally
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10:02<Ehitan>hola
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10:03<Ehitan>que tal a todosss
10:03<Hydroxide>mercutio22: I'm not sure how automatic it is. if you are using Debian lenny's default mail software, running "dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config" as root will walk you through it
10:03<pipe>!es
10:03<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
10:03<pipe>or something
10:04<mercutio22>Hydroxide: great, thanks
10:04<mercutio22>sdka
10:04<mercutio22>ops, sorry
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10:05<NamekTran>hello
10:06<NamekTran>can someone help me
10:06<pipe>no
10:06<NamekTran>to make wifi work
10:06<pipe>maybe if you ask a question
10:06<NamekTran>i cant get my wifi to work
10:06<pipe>what hardware?
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10:06<NamekTran>uhm idk
10:06<NamekTran>but i got a lenovo T60
10:06<pipe>neither do I
10:07<pipe>okay
10:07<NamekTran>can u help me?
10:07<pipe>So it's either Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Mini-PCI Express Adapter
10:07<pipe>or ThinkPad 11a/b/g Wireless LAN Mini Express Adapter
10:07<pipe>or ThinkPad 11a/b/g/n Wireless LAN Mini Express Adapter
10:07<perk>NamekTran, http://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Thinkpad/T60/lenny
10:08<NamekTran>thank u
10:08<perk>NamekTran, yeah. either you have some weird turn-off/on-the-wifi-button (as on the x-series thinkpad) or you need iwlwifi
10:09<perk>or both
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10:10<mercutio22>q
10:10<NamekTran>ok
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10:11<NamekTran>how can i see what wireless card i got
10:12<perk>NamekTran, lspci
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10:12<NamekTran>ty
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10:18<NamekTran>its still cant find
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10:28<NamekTran>can someone help me install a wifi driver
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10:33<ml|>dpkg: tell NamekTran about wifi
10:33<ml|>dpkg: tell NamekTran what's my wireless
10:33-!-icebrain [~icebrain@gw-e-U-EdII.nat.fct.unl.pt] has joined #debian
10:34<ml|>dpkg: tell NamekTran about what's my wireless
10:34-!-virm [~alex@230-176-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
10:35<NamekTran>my wireless is Intel Corporation PRO/Wireless 3945ABG
10:36<cahoot>NamekTran: installed firmware-iwlwifi?
10:36<cahoot> need contrib enabled in sources.list (IIRC)
10:37-!-mode/#debian [+l 388] by debhelper
10:37<NamekTran>no
10:37<cahoot>you need that
10:37<NamekTran>ok
10:38<NamekTran>ok installed
10:38<cahoot>modprobe -r iwl3945 && modprobe iwl3945 && dmesg
10:38<cahoot>read the last 16 lines of dmesg
10:39<NamekTran>[ 1031.117260] iwl3945: iwlwifi-3945-1.ucode firmware file req failed: Reason -2
10:40-!-maKtieOS [~xyz@host187-140-dynamic.13-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
10:40<cahoot>this is after you successfully installed firmware?
10:40<NamekTran>yes
10:41<NamekTran>before i installed firmware i installed ipw3945-modules-2.6-486
10:42<cahoot>modprobe iwl3945 doesn't give error?
10:43<NamekTran>its works now
10:43<NamekTran>:D
10:43<NamekTran>tx
10:43<NamekTran>i just removed
10:43<NamekTran>that thing i downloaded before
10:43-!-Tenguch [~cedric@nimo.internux.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:43<NamekTran>thanl you
10:43<NamekTran>thank*
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10:48<houms>good day all, can anyone point me to the debian version of thunderbird?
10:48<cahoot>icechicken?
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10:49<locklace>!thunderbird
10:49<dpkg>thunderbird is, like, replaced by icedove in Debian as of Lenny. Ask me about <icedove>.
10:49<mercutio22>ice chicken hehehe
10:50<houms>thank you very much dpkg
10:50<houms>thats exactly what i was looking for
10:50<ml|>!judd versions icedove
10:50<dpkg>ml|, you probably want to address that to judd, not to me. (Hint: leave off the ! in your command -- that's there to grab my attention not judd's)
10:50<ml|>haha
10:50<ml|>judd: versions icedove
10:50<judd>ml|: icedove -- etch: 1.5.0.13+1.5.0.15b.dfsg1+prepatch080614i-0etch1 etch-security: 1.5.0.13+1.5.0.15b.dfsg1+prepatch080614i-0etch1 lenny: 2.0.0.19-1 lenny-security: 2.0.0.22-0lenny1 squeeze: 2.0.0.22-0lenny1 sid: 2.0.0.22-1.1
10:50<houms>does anyone have any suggestions as to which they prefer kmail or icedove?
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10:52<fred1>Sigh. I have a question that I suspect the answer is the empty set. But I'd really like it not to be
10:52<fred1>The question is: portable file system that is recognized by both windows and linux that supports large files (>4GB) but isnt NTFS
10:52-!-jkur [~jkur@82-198-203-20.briteline.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:53<ml|>houms: try them both and see which one you like
10:53-!-hever [~hever@ip-78-94-184-40.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #debian
10:53<locklace>"portable filesystem recognized by windows" is a pretty small set
10:54-!-groolot [~groolot@93.12.36.113] has joined #debian
10:54<fred1>I had sort of been hoping I could perhaps make a fat32 fs with a larger than normal cluster size to bypass the 4G limit
10:54<fred1>not sure if thats possible or not
10:54<pipe>surely it's not the cluster size that is the limit there?
10:54<pipe>so what about exfat support in linux?
10:55<fred1>not sure, but i fear it isnt
10:55<fred1>exfat?
10:55<groolot>hi
10:55<pipe>isn't that their new "portable" filesystem
10:55<pipe>!exfat
10:55<pipe>:(
10:55<houms>any suggestions ml about exchange which one works better
10:55<ml|>isn't there ways to use ext3 in windows?
10:55<fred1>wp has info
10:55<fred1>looking
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10:55<cahoot> ext2 at least
10:55-!-muammar_ is now known as muammar
10:56<fred1>well.. ext2.. but im looking to exchange files with not-necesarrilly-all-that-savvy windows users
10:56<pipe>exfat is bound to fail in anything older than vista
10:56<ml|>houms: no idea
10:56<fred1>would prefer to not have to have them install special drivers
10:56<groolot>working with lenny, i'd like to use python2.6 instead of 2.5
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10:56<pipe>so if you need windows xp, you're stuck with ntfs or fat32
10:56<fred1>bah
10:56<groolot>seems to have no backports for it
10:57<ml|>just break down the files
10:57<houms>thank ml
10:57<fred1>whats comonly used for doing that in windowsland that I can do on debian as well?
10:57-!-houms [~houms@wsip-70-167-244-115.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:57<fred1>will zip do that?
10:57-!-jvc007 [~jvc007@117.199.10.239] has joined #debian
10:58<pipe>fred1: do what?
10:58-!-jvc007 [~jvc007@117.199.10.239] has quit []
10:58<fred1>something that can break up files then put them back together
10:58-!-debalance [~quassel@109.250.147.74] has joined #debian
10:58<pipe>zip won't do that
10:58-!-jvc007 [~jvc007@117.199.10.239] has joined #debian
10:58<pipe>rar will
10:58-!-Stemby [~carlo@host-78-14-240-184.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined #debian
10:58<pipe>I'm not so sure that 7zip will
10:58<fred1>not even some sort of tricks for making 'multi-disk' archives, where I just tell it the disks are 3.9G each?
10:59<ml|>there are, but I don't know
10:59<fred1>ok.. thanks.. yu've basically confirmed what I already figured
10:59<fred1>stupid fat32
10:59<jvc007>how to customize arch linux
11:00<fred1>annoying ntfs
11:00<locklace>!lose jvc007
11:00<dpkg>jvc007: You Lose.
11:00<pipe>jvc007: why are you asking that in #debian?
11:00<ml|>jvc007: ask in #archlinux on freenode
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11:00<jvc007>sorry
11:00<fred1>almost worth a failblog posting.. except most readers would miss the point
11:01<pipe>yeah
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11:01<fred1>not to mention 'how to customize' seems an awfully broad question anyway
11:01-!-czapa [~czapa@088156054193.olsztyn.vectranet.pl] has joined #debian
11:01<ml|>there must an app that does what you want in both linux and windows
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11:02<fred1>actually at this point im either going to cringe and go with ntfs, or make the windows people cringe and use ext2
11:02<pipe>why not ntfs
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11:02<fred1>Other than the fact that MS 'invented' it ?
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11:03<pipe>fred1: they also invented fat32 :P
11:03<ml|>haha
11:03-!-hscade_ [~hscade@rwls1.rz.htw-dresden.de] has joined #debian
11:03<fred1>true.. but it was basically a copy of whatever cpm was doing
11:03<pipe>and important computer technologies like multitasking and the GUI
11:03-!-jesperj [~jesper@c213-89-146-219.bredband.comhem.se] has quit []
11:03<fred1>MS did NOT 'invent' either multitasking or the GUI
11:03<pipe>just wait
11:04<Lantizia>fred1: but they'll say they did
11:04<pipe>eventually all our books will be DRM
11:04<Lantizia>lol
11:04<pipe>then the history books will be "corrected"
11:04<fred1>well AL Gore said he invented the Internet too.
11:04*ml| points to #debian-offtopic
11:04<Lantizia>you know I invented air
11:04<Lantizia>you all ow me royalties
11:04<fred1>Anyway.. ntfs just always leaves a bad taste in my mouth
11:04-!-ajdm [~ajdm@35.Red-88-7-181.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #debian
11:05<fred1>i'll have to think on it and figure what I want to do..
11:06-!-czapa [~czapa@088156054193.olsztyn.vectranet.pl] has quit []
11:06<fred1>i have link to ext2 driver for win.. I dont suppose anyone knows of one that does ext_3_
11:06-!-debalance [~quassel@109.250.147.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:06<fred1>yes, i realize they are backward compatible
11:06-!-AzaTht [~AzaTht@212-162-171-118.skbbip.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:06<fred1>except for the journal
11:07<fred1>actually I suppose for the intended use that doesnt really matter
11:07-!-joar [~joar@110.190.248.194.static.cust.telenor.com] has joined #debian
11:07<pipe>it's vitally important that you use a journal for your random read-only windows usbsticks
11:08<fred1>pipe, I think you dropped something..
11:08<fred1>Ah yes, right there behind you, it says "</sarcasm>" on it
11:08<fred1>:P
11:09<pipe>I never close that
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11:10<fred1>oic
11:10-!-geenna [~geenna@net-93-144-194-14.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #debian
11:10<fred1>ftr, this is for an actual platter, not a usbstick
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11:12<Lantizia>fred1: ext2fsd
11:12<Lantizia>that has ext3 support for read/write
11:12<pipe>still hazzl0r with installing on windows
11:12<pipe>just swallow your pride, go with ntfs
11:12<pipe>it's The Right Way
11:12<Lantizia>ntfs for what?
11:12<pipe>
11:12<fred1>" i have link to ext2 driver for win" (eg, I already have ext2ifsd)
11:13-!-Jussi [~jussi@x1-6-00-18-39-c6-54-fe.k38.webspeed.dk] has joined #debian
11:13<Lantizia>ext2ifsd != ext2fsd
11:13<Lantizia>http://www.ext2fsd.com/
11:13<fred1>I fatfingered it
11:13<fred1>its what I have
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11:14<Lantizia>ok well it works very well... all my dual boot systems have an extra ext3 partition for sharing between OS's
11:15<fred1>i dont personally use windows myself for anything serious
11:15<fred1>just for some old win98 games
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11:15<pipe>fred1: don't they run without any problems at all in wine?
11:15<fred1>my debian machine has ssh and apache, to facilitate transferring between, when needed
11:16<fred1>no, not wine compatible
11:16<pipe>odd
11:16<fred1>besides, ive got some old machines that runs on.. keeps it seperate from my 'real machine'
11:16-!-EagleRock [~EagleRock@216.156.138.66.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:16<fred1>plus the windows boxes are firewalled off from the outside Inet
11:16-!-ajdm [~ajdm@35.Red-88-7-181.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:16<sney`>some things work in wine and some don't, and there isn't much effort being made to fix old software for compatibility
11:17-!-worellana [~worellana@190.86.101.225] has joined #debian
11:17<fred1>well, the game box is dedicated to that purpose anyway, so theres no point in using wine
11:18-!-angelabad [~angel@39.85-87-95.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es] has joined #debian
11:18<pipe>I bet you play starcraft and live in korea
11:18-!-robertf [~frederic@2001:41d0:2:3478::] has joined #debian
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11:18<fred1>me?
11:18<fred1>hardly
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11:20<fred1>I bet you live in Sweden and your real name is Anders
11:20<fred1>:P
11:20<petemc>you must be some sort of magician
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11:21<fred1>heh
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11:22<NamekTran>hello can someone help me install Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM driver
11:22<fred1>!m-a
11:22<dpkg>from memory, module-assistant is a tool helping to build additional (kernel) module packages and install them. "aptitude install module-assistant && m-a prepare". See usage examples at http://wiki.debian.org/ModuleAssistant . Log files from successful (and unsuccessful!) builds can be found in /var/cache/modass/.
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11:24<fred1>fyi, 'driver' is the wrong term.. Xorg server is what you want
11:24<cahoot>NamekTran: should 'just work'
11:24<fred1>And assuming you intalled the 'desktop' set when you installed debian
11:24-!-k1lumin4t1_ [~k1lumin4t@190.74.123.226] has joined #debian
11:24<fred1>what cahoot said
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11:25<NamekTran>oh
11:25<NamekTran>but i can only use 1024*768
11:25<cahoot>NamekTran: is this lenny?
11:25<NamekTran>yes
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11:26<sney`>you may need to install xserver-xorg-video-intel if it didn't get auto-detected somehow
11:26<NamekTran>ok i try
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11:27<fred1>actually.. lol.. i just checked and realized thats what video I have
11:27<fred1>and afaicr, it did 'just work'
11:27<fred1>dont remember having to manually fark with it
11:27-!-xover [~xover@host86-147-168-111.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #debian
11:27<NamekTran>uhm
11:28<fred1>from a root shell: aptitude install xserver-xorg-video-intel
11:28<NamekTran>i did
11:28<fred1>and?
11:28<NamekTran>but its says already installed
11:28<NamekTran>-_-'
11:28<NamekTran>maybe something wrong with my xorg.conf
11:29<fred1>no, its all automatic now
11:29<fred1>check
11:29<NamekTran>oh
11:29<fred1>/var/log/Xorg.0.log
11:29<fred1>for clues
11:29<fred1>you using internal display or external?
11:29<NamekTran>internal
11:29<fred1>if external, are you sure *it* can do more than 10... ok
11:29<cahoot>NamekTran: if I remeber correctly I had to set this option in xorg.conf: Section Monitor Identifier "TV" Option "Ignore" "True"
11:30-!-Torsten [~chatzilla@109.192.131.230] has joined #debian
11:30<NamekTran>ok
11:30-!-vev [~vev@77.49.35.213.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #debian
11:30<Torsten>hello
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11:30<xover>is the difference between /etc/bashrc and /etc/profile /etc/profile.d simply whether or not the user is logged in remotely or at the console?
11:30<cahoot>NamekTran: but this was 1 or 2 years ago
11:30<fred1>if that doesnt help, and you can't make sense of Xorg.0.log, pastebin it
11:31<fred1>xover, 'man bash' has an exellent overview of that
11:31<NamekTran>ok
11:31<fred1>but in general terms /etc/profile applies to all shells, whereas bashrc only to bash
11:31<NamekTran>uhm
11:32<fred1>xover, search for the section 'INVOCATION' in man bash for the explanation as to what starup files it reads, when, in what order.
11:33<NamekTran>ok
11:33<xover>i know which order and which are used, im just trying to understand what an interactive and non-interactive shells are in real terms
11:33<fred1>interactive - you are typing at it
11:33<xover>ie. if i launch xterm, that is non interactive, but if i use a TTY that is interactive right?
11:33<fred1>non-interactive - loaded to run a script that has #!/bin/bash in it
11:33<fred1>no both arer interactive
11:33<Torsten>I have a GRUB problem, after my PC frezzed I made a restart and now my Debian PC won't start any more! After reboot it loads to the Grub bash and waits for commands, how can I restore my system from that point, to a normal boot?
11:33<fred1>non-interactive means its interpreting a script
11:34<xover>i dont think so, as I have launched an xterm and it does not load my /etc/profile alias
11:34<NamekTran>my Xorg.0.log says (II) intel(0): Modeline "1024x768"x0.0 54.16 1024 1048 1184 1344 768 771 777 806 -hsync -vsync (40.3 kHz)
11:34<NamekTran>(II) intel(0): Modeline "800x600"x0.0 40.00 800 840 968 1056 600 601 605 628 +hsync +vsync (37.9 kHz)
11:34<NamekTran>(II) intel(0): Modeline "640x480"x0.0 25.20 640 656 752 800 480 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync (31.5 kHz)
11:34<NamekTran>(II) intel(0): Modeline "1024x768"x0.0 65.00 1024 1048 1184 1344 768 771 777 806 -hsync -vsync (48.4 kHz)
11:34-!-NamekTran was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
11:34<fred1>xterm may be a non-login shell
11:34-!-worellana [~worellana@190.86.101.225] has quit [Quit: shutdown -h now]
11:34<fred1>as oppsoed to 'logging in' on the tty, which would be
11:34<xover>hmm
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11:35<NamekTran>aarrw
11:35<NamekTran>i got kick
11:35<fred1>i would put personal stuff in ~/.bashrc
11:35-!-sidux [~sidux@125.99.187.49] has joined #debian
11:35<fred1>as opposed to in /etc
11:35<cahoot>Torsten: boot from a livecd and check the system, possibly reinstal grub
11:35<fred1>!tel NamekTran about pastebin
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11:35<fred1>er
11:35-!-sidux is now known as Guest1116
11:35<fred1>!pastebin
11:35<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: http://paste.debian.net/ http://pastebin.ca/ http://pastie.org/ http://pastebin.com/ or http://picpaste.com/ for pics. Use wikisend.com for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>.
11:36<NamekTran>oh
11:36<Torsten>ok I'm a dumb user, how can I get that back to work properly?
11:36<NamekTran>but what can i do to make my resolution higher
11:36-!-valdyn [~valdyn@host-88-217-143-53.customer.m-online.net] has joined #debian
11:36<xover>fred1, which config file should be modified to set default shell variables for all users? /etc/profile or /etc/bashrc?
11:37<fred1>NamekTran, you wanted to show us your Xorg log.. use pastebin, then give us the url and we can look at it
11:37-!-quaker66 [~quaker66@213.191.105.214] has joined #debian
11:37<NamekTran>ok
11:37<fred1>xover, bashrc might be a better bet.. but again, i would stronlgy suggest reading the explanation in the bash manpage
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11:37<fred1>it specifies exactly what conditions which files are read
11:37<xover>ok man, peace be with you.
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11:38<fred1>np
11:39<xover>fred1, This first part, what does it mean?
11:39<xover>A login shell is one whose first character of argument zero is a -, or one started with the --login option.
11:39<fred1>/bin/login starts login shells. or if you start it and add '--login' to its args
11:39<xover>what is the first character of argument? Does that refer to argument 1? $1
11:40<fred1>argument zero
11:40<xover>argument 0 is the command isnt it?
11:40<fred1>yes
11:40<Torsten>OK I'm loading debian-live-502-i386-rescue.iso right now, should that do the trick to restore the grub settings?
11:40<NamekTran>here http://pastebin.com/d3b09cfe0
11:40<ml|>xover: use ~/.bashrc /etc/bash.bashrc is for system wide stuff plus an update could replace /etc/bash.bashrc
11:40<fred1>NamekTran, ok hang on
11:41<xover>fred1, when would i ever use /bin/login to use a system?
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11:42<kombucha>My understanding is that bin/login is called anytime a user logins to the system
11:42<xover>ml|, its the innovation that i am trying to figure out, not user or system differences.
11:42<fred1>what kombucha said
11:42<kombucha>dpkg puts it much more eloquently though
11:42<dpkg>kombucha: bugger all, i dunno
11:42<kombucha>login?
11:42<fred1>/bin/login is called by a getty.. which is what sits on your vty's showing a login: prompt
11:43<fred1>or when sshd sees an incoming interactive login
11:43<fred1>but not when you run an xterm
11:43<ml|>xover: ok, just incase
11:43<fred1>since you are already 'logged in' in X
11:44<fred1>howver both are 'interactive' you probably want aliases for all interactive shells, would be my guess
11:44<Getty>fred1: forget it, i will not call her!!! ;)
11:44<ml|>heh
11:44<kombucha>I'm trying to install the amd64 kernel on my Sunfire; Can anyone tell how to resolve this dependency problem (errror 128) I am getting: http://debian.pastebin.com/m5d3dd28e
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11:44<fred1>hrm
11:44<fred1>#
11:44<fred1>(II) intel(0): Printing DDC gathered Modelines:
11:44<kombucha>It's not bc I am using dkms is it?
11:45<fred1>isnt DDC the protocol where a vidcard asks the monitor what it can support?
11:45<fred1>becuase the highest you are getting back is 1024x768, if thats what that is
11:45<NamekTran>oh
11:46<fred1>again, thats if thats what that is
11:46<NamekTran>but back in windows i could use higher
11:46<pipe>I'm sure there are billions of extensions to that
11:46<xover>when i ssh to my system is uses the /etc/bash.bashrc file which is global non login
11:47<xover>I believe login is accessing it using a TTY?
11:47<fred1>you are just doing a stright ssh?
11:47<cahoot>NamekTran: could try Option "UseEdidFreqs" "false"
11:47-!-joar [~joar@110.190.248.194.static.cust.telenor.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
11:48<fred1>not ssh with a command to execute
11:48<xover>straight ssh
11:48<cahoot>NamekTran: or simply Option "UseEdid" "false"
11:48<fred1>cahoot, his edid only shows 1024x768 too
11:48<fred1>er..
11:48<fred1>nvm
11:48<xover>i just access via TTY! and it also read from /etc/bash.bashrc
11:48<NamekTran>cahoot: where i put that :D
11:49<fred1>NamekTran, here is question. are you sure the display *can* do more than 1024x768?
11:49<NamekTran>yes
11:49<ml|>NamekTran: sometimes X/hal does not detect stuff correctly, you need to manually edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf.org to get the resolution you want
11:49-!-Worf_ [~worf@84-119-46-95.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:49<ml|>oops /etc/X11/xorg.conf*
11:49<NamekTran>oh but how do i do that
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11:50<pipe>NamekTran: Is this for a T60?
11:50<cahoot>NamekTran: possibly also Option “IgnoreEDID” “true” (Section Device)
11:50<pipe>NamekTran: There are T60 models with 1024x768 max
11:50<NamekTran>pipe: yes
11:50-!-jesperj [~jesper@c213-89-146-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #debian
11:50<pipe>comhem :(
11:51<fred1>I was gonna say, try googling your (laptop I assume) make/model and 'debian' see if anything comes up
11:51<ml|>what does xrandr say?
11:51<NamekTran>wait
11:51<pipe>Thing is, "T60" doesn't say much, there are T60 with 1680x1050 and 1600x1200 etc
11:52<NamekTran>http://pastebin.com/d7a6e7414
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11:52<NamekTran>pipe: but i could use higher in windows
11:52<ml|>NamekTran: you should read this and maybe try what cahoot suggested
11:52<ml|>http://wiki.debian.org/XStrikeForce/
11:52<NamekTran>ok
11:53<NamekTran>i restart x now
11:53<Torsten>how can I manualy boot my system out of the GRUB-BASH ?
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11:55<ml|>see xrandr says ... Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1024 x 768, maximum 1024 x 1024 but is that maximum right? seems odd resolution
11:55<cristian>ciao
11:55<cristian>list
11:56<ml|>dpkg: tell cristian about list
11:56<ml|>dpkg: tell cristian about it
11:56-!-NamekTran [~NamekTran@0138300039.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #debian
11:56<NamekTran>it didnt work
11:58<ml|>dpkg: does not work
11:58<dpkg>Look buddy, "doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message?". Ask me about <smart questions> and <errors>.
11:58-!-cristian [~cristian@151.23.93.20] has quit []
11:58<NamekTran>hehe
11:59-!-hazard2 [~hazard@pool-96-252-45-198.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #debian
12:00<fred1>"Does it sit in the WhiteHouse and blame the previous administration for everything that goes wrong?" etc.. :P
12:00<NamekTran>uhm
12:00<NamekTran>whatcan i do now
12:01<fred1>your monitor/lcd is telling the videocard that it can only do 1024x768
12:01<ml|>Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message?". Ask me about <smart questions> and <errors>.
12:01<pipe>NamekTran: join #thinkwiki on freenode
12:01<NamekTran>ok
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12:02<fred1>I would consider the possibility that it is right, and weigh that against whatever information/evidence you have to the contrary
12:02<ml|>from his paste it says Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1024 x 768, maximum 1024 x 1024
12:02<pipe>NamekTran: or ##ibmthinkpad on freenode (two #)
12:03<NamekTran>what port :D
12:03<fred1>well from his xorg pastebin it says: Printing DDC gathered Modelines: and 1024x768 as the hightest
12:04<ml|>also http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ThinkWiki and read what was suggested above
12:04<ml|>NamekTran: ^
12:04<NamekTran>ok :P
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12:06*fred1 is about to kill a tree
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12:07<fred1>128 page manual
12:07<pipe>fred1: why, they have feelings too, you know
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12:11<fred1>heh http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20100106
12:11<ml|>NamekTran: seems those are the max resolutions for that model http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:T60 15.0" TFT IPS display with 1600x1200 resolution 15.4" TFT display with 1680x1050 resolution (widescreen)
12:11-!-rikhardo [~riku@cable-roi-fedfdd00-98.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #debian
12:12<NamekTran>ok
12:12-!-rikhardo [~riku@cable-roi-fedfdd00-98.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit []
12:12<NamekTran>-_-'
12:12<ml|>of course if you have the right model that is
12:12<Torsten>can I reboot from the rescue CD? I strangely come strait back to the GRUB-BASH
12:12<NamekTran>where i can i see my model :D
12:13<ml|>look at the bottom of you T60
12:13-!-visicalc [~visicalc@e180151194.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #debian
12:13<ml|>your*
12:13<fred1>bot the rescue cd, mount your system, then fix grub from there
12:14-!-freealan [~freealan@59-115-140-87.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: leaving]
12:15<xover>fred1, where do you get the rescue cd from, is that any linux live cd/
12:15<ml|>Torsten: you might need to set that up in your bios or press some key right after rebooting your system
12:16-!-chihchun [~chihchun@u7.hlc.edu.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:17<fred1>sure
12:17<fred1>you can use disk 1 of the debian cd set
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12:17<M4ster>uit
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12:18<Torsten>ah got it
12:18<Torsten>tx
12:18<fred1>the point is, it boots up to a running linux, from which you can then mount your hard drive filesystems, and use whatever utilities you need to fix a non-booting system
12:18<ml|>I find grml good for such stuff
12:18-!-NamekTran [~NamekTran@0138300039.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #debian
12:18<cahoot>NamekTran: http://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Thinkpad/T60/etch?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=xorg.T60_intel945.conf.txt
12:18<pipe>I always use ubuntu live cd for stuff like that
12:19<pipe>it's simple and convenient and bloated
12:19<ml|>pipe: give grml a try, heh
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12:19<NamekTran>cahoot: tx i try that :D
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12:21<xover>that bash man page makes my head spin
12:22<pipe>it sucks
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12:22<pipe>the only way that it's possible to write shell scripts is to do "man dash" or something
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12:22<fred1>xover, its quite thorough
12:22<kop> pipe ,xover : I don't find it bad. Just big.
12:22<pipe>Or actually, yes
12:22<pipe>the manpage is good
12:22<pipe>it's bash that's extreme
12:22<fred1>and note that half of 'bash' scripting is simply running programs that arent actually part of page
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12:23<fred1>eg sed, awk, grep
12:23<fred1>er part of *bash*
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12:23<fred1>I wrote a monopurpose OCR in bash once
12:23<xover>kop, I would just like to know in laymans terms when certain config files are used, not how the earth was created in granular detail.
12:23<kop>xover: The trick is to learn to use less: go to top of document, search forward, search backwards, go to bottom of document, and quit are usually enough to be able to find what you need in a big man page.
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12:24<maverick>how can i make ubuntu boot with acpi=off everytime?
12:24<maverick>im sorry wrong channel :)
12:24<pipe>how insightful
12:24<ml|> !ubuntu
12:24<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it is unlikely to live up to Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu (irc.freenode.net) instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian>.
12:24<fred1>xover, there is always the practive approach:
12:24<kop>I thought it a good catch.
12:24<ml|>damn oops
12:25<fred1>put "echo "/etc/bashrc" at the top of /etc/bashrc.. put "echo /etc/profile" at the top of /etc/profile.. and so forth
12:25<ml|>thought the space would trigger that factiod
12:25<xover>fred1, yeah im going to try that in a minute.
12:25<ml|>would not*
12:25<fred1>man calls 'less' by default on my system
12:25<fred1>i dont recall if I set that or it was stock debian
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12:25<kop>xover: The big distinction is between interactive and non-interactive shells. There's a lot of history and backwards compatibility -- hence lots of config files. There's not a lot that can be done.
12:26<kop>fred1: stock.
12:26<ml|>why mess with /etc/* do it in ~ to try stuff
12:27<ml|>vimpager is my manpager
12:27<ml|>also my pager
12:28<pipe>vim <3
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12:30<kop>xover: Mostly, you want .bashrc and .bash_profile, depending on whether you want to mess with non-interactive shells. (I forget which is just for interactive shells.)
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12:33<ml|>this might help ... http://tldp.org/LDP/Bash-Beginners-Guide/html/sect_03_01.html
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12:37-!-mode/#debian [+l 385] by debhelper
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12:40<engy>hey, what's google doing in my apt update? http://pastebin.com/f4f4f1a03 & http://pastebin.com/m1d7cb06e
12:41<sney`>weird that it's not in your sources.list, but dl.google.com comes up if you have the Chrome dev channel build installed
12:42<ml|>weird
12:42<kombucha>hald-addon-stor is using 118% of my CPU according to top
12:42<engy>I have installed chrome though
12:42<cahoot>engy: you installed chrome?
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12:42<kombucha>it's even preventing shutdown -r
12:42<kombucha>on the plus side it's not using any %mem
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12:42<cahoot>engy: that's why then
12:42<engy>don't remember how though
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12:43<engy>cahoot: yeah, but it's kind of freaky that it "infects" apt like that
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12:43<simonrvn>/etc/apt/sources.list.d/
12:43<sney`>the only ways to currently install Chrome on debian are to add the apt repo and install google-chrome-unstable, or to download the .deb from the chrome site and dpkg -i
12:43<ml|>is it in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ then?
12:43<kombucha>top hits on google for hald-addon-stor are all about it munching CPU
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12:44<cahoot>engy: at least you can get rid of that infektion
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12:44<simonrvn>ml|: yes. the package puts a filethere
12:44<engy>aha
12:44<ml|>simonrvn: ah, thanks
12:44<engy>yea, it's in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
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12:45<engy>thanks guys
12:45<sney`>if you have chrome it is a good idea to let it keep updating itself, though.
12:45<kombucha>cool, the %CPU drops from 118 to 72 when I eject the CD :-)
12:45<engy>yeah, I'll leave it there, just found it odd
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12:45<ml|>kombucha: shutdown -r now does not work?
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12:46<kombucha>shutdown -r did not work with hald-addoon-stor using 118% of the cpu.... now that it's dropped to 72% shutdown has dropped off top
12:47<kombucha>oh wait there's the broadcast message! (an hour later)
12:47<Torsten>debian live CD will neither boot on my system
12:47-!-bgupta [~bgupta@h-68-164-142-66.nycmny83.static.covad.net] has joined #debian
12:48<ml|>Torsten: if you setup booting from cd right, check the md5 and/or try another livecd
12:49<kombucha>yes it is really hung, the broadcast message went out, but it is not rebooting
12:49<kombucha>hald-addon-stor wtf?
12:49<ml|>can't kill that?
12:49<ml|>as last resort pull the cord ;)
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12:50<kombucha>can't kill anything, have no response...
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12:50<kombucha>solution looks easy: sudo hal-disable-polling --device, but have to get it to finish rebooting first
12:53<sney`>damn the torpedoes, hit reset
12:53<sney`>unless it's a remote machine, in which case... get someone else to hit reset
12:53<kombucha>torpedoes have been damned
12:53<ml|>hehe
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13:01<Torsten>hello, I had a working Debian 2.6.18-686 in a VM for VPC under Win7 after the System had frozzen, I shut it down and rebootet, but something seemes to have gone wrong terribly and I don't come back over the GRUB-BASH wich is waiting for manual input! (don't know what I should put in to boot manually) Like suggested, I tryed Debian LIve - Rescue CD but with this I neither can boot up, every...
13:01<Torsten>...menu item (boot mode) I choose crashes the VPC! Can I get the Debian System manually started, without using a LIVE CD? Any help there?
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13:42<Juanma>hello you lot
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13:42<Juanma>I have a troubble with my mysql server
13:42<Juanma>on a debian sid system
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13:43<fred1>!sid
13:43<dpkg>sid is the <unstable> version of Debian. Sid is the destructive kid in Toy Story. It is NOT an acronym, but is sometimes backronymed Still In Development anyway. Do not use sid unless you have the skill to find your way out of the mess that broken packages may put you in; sid is not supported in #debian because sid users should be able to solve their own problems. Sid will never be released. See also <sid faq> <unstable>.
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13:45<ml|>sid for a server? wow 0_0
13:46<fred1>hey.. i know for an ext2 fs the gnome automounter will use the e2 label as the mountmount under media instead of disk-n
13:46<fred1>will it use the label on a fat system as well?
13:47-!-[fFf]1 [~fixed@host223-224-dynamic.117-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:47<ml|>I doubt it
13:47<fred1>and uhm.. hrm.. how does one set the volume label on a fat partition, anyway
13:47<fred1>from debian, that is ;)
13:48-!-alienux [~theXman@jus25-4-88-177-208-162.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian
13:48<ml|>I think you can only do that in windows?
13:48<fred1>aha
13:48<fred1>mtools/mlabel
13:49-!-chealer_ is now known as chealer
13:49<EagleRock>yeah, I was just about to post that :-)
13:50<EagleRock>I remember coming a cross that setting up a USB drive
13:50<fred1>hrm.. it seems to want a "drive:" as in a letter
13:50<fred1>doesnt like "/dev/sdb1"
13:51<fred1>hrm
13:51<xover>fred1, did a few tests, appears that TTYs use the login shell profiles and anything else, sub shell or ssh etc, are non login unless specifying the -login parameter
13:51<xover>so unless you are using the actualy console I cannot see how /etc/profile is ever used.
13:52<ml|>Mtools is a collection of utilities to access MS-DOS disks from Unix without mounting them.
13:52<fred1>ok, any idea how one tells one of the utils (mlabel, for instance) which drive/partition to work on?
13:53<fred1>aha
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13:55<fred1>one has to setup an mtools.conf to map 'drive letters' to particular partitions
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13:56<fred1>and to answer my prior question, the gnome automounter does in fact use the fat label if there is one
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13:57<ml|>!congratulate fred1
13:57<dpkg>Good show fred1, you did it!
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14:10<machina>anyone know how to shorten an NMU that's delayed/7 ?
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14:10<xover>I keep having an issue where the sounds dies
14:10<xover>why is that
14:11<metalqga>mortally wounded?
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14:14<xover>this is giving me a hulk rage
14:14<xover>is there a way of fixing the sound after flash has killed it
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14:14<fred1>exit ff/iw
14:14<fred1>test sound working before restart ff/iw
14:15<ml|>can use for that ... speaker-test -t wav -c2
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14:19<xover>what is exit ff/iw?
14:19<ml|>firefox/iceweasel
14:19<xover>what is iceweasel?
14:19<ml|>dpkg: tell xover about iceweasel
14:20<ml|>dpkg: tell xover about why iceweasel
14:20<metalqga>xover are you using xp or vista?
14:20<worellana>xDD
14:21<chealer>machina: ask #debian-devel
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14:21<bremner>but be prepared for a rude answer. Why do you want to?
14:22<xover>ive done sudo lsof | grep pcm | xargs kill
14:22<xover>/etc/init.d/alsa-utils restart
14:22<xover>its still not working
14:22<xover>metalqga, they are more reliable desktops that is for sure.
14:22-!-franckB [~franck@poi59-2-82-247-204-182.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian
14:23<valdyn>xover: fuser /dev/dsp* gives what?
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14:24<metalqga>i dont rely on 'em, i like to use the desktop instead
14:24<xover>valdyn, nothing
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14:27<xover>urgh
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14:31<xover>i got it working, had to reboot. awesome
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14:33<xover>is there a way of getting thunderbird to minimize to the system tray?
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14:34<fnmueller>xover: install claws-mail or install traybiff (iirc)
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14:38<Titan8990>fnmueller, claws-mail is an entirely separate MUA
14:38<Titan8990>xover, and i assume you mean icedove?
14:38<fnmueller>Titan8990: I know.
14:39<fnmueller>Titan8990: for one, I don't think icedove/thundebird is a good programm, espsecially since version 3 came out. On the other hand I recommend using claws-mail
14:39<fnmueller>and third - traybiff is a solution if you want to stick to thunderbird
14:39<Titan8990>fnmueller, i recently switch from evolution to thunderbird 3
14:40<Titan8990>fnmueller, i like the tabbed email and find it to be much less buggy than evolution
14:40-!-italoclone [~italoclon@189.5.132.109] has left #debian []
14:40<fnmueller>Titan8990: well, I would not recommend evolution either, I believe claws-mail is better than tb3
14:40-!-sep is now known as sep_home
14:41-!-fmr [~firebird@cou63-1-88-189-80-64.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Plouf]
14:41<fnmueller>on the other hand, I do not like the tabbed style in TB, even though I make very heavy use of tabbed browsing in opera
14:41<Titan8990>i make heavy use of chrome tabs, but never got into tabbed terminal emulators
14:41<Titan8990>i alway have 5 terminals open at once....
14:42<fred1>pop clients suck. I could never use 'pop' email.
14:42<Titan8990>fred1, all the email clients mentioned also support IMAP
14:42<fred1>in fact to be honest I cant stand anything but gmail anymore..
14:42<Titan8990>gmail offers both POP and IMAP
14:42<fred1>I just wish gmail would work as an imap client
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14:43<Titan8990>it does....
14:43<fred1>i like the gmail interface
14:43<fred1>client
14:43<simonrvn>um, it does
14:43<fred1>I want to use gmail's web interface to access an external imap account
14:43<simonrvn>oh
14:43<fred1>not use a local imap client to access gmail message store
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14:43<fred1>id like to get my mail off gmail and on my private server..
14:43<bremner>fred1: there is sup, or very new (not yet in debian) notmuch, which are text based, but "like gmail"
14:43<fred1>but.. I want to use the gmail interface to read it
14:44<Titan8990>fred1, have all mail forwarded to your gmail accnt...
14:44<fred1>web based is fine, preferred..
14:44<fred1>heh.. thats the point.. i dont want it stored on google servers..
14:45<fred1>I want it store on mine.. if I read something, or mark it, i want that information stored on *my* server
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14:45<fred1>id like a downloadable version of the gmail interface, really
14:45<fred1>(yes, im dreaming, will neer happen)
14:45<Titan8990>wouldn't see why not
14:45<Titan8990>they have apps like the for android
14:45<Titan8990>doesn't sound far-fetched to me to have it ported to other linux(s) if there was really a need
14:46<fred1>no.. i mean something I can stick on my own apache server, and then access from whatever web browser
14:46<fred1>that looks, feels like gmails standard web interface
14:46<Titan8990>well, its not a web browser but the application is very similar to the gmail interface
14:46<fred1>i dont want a downloadable application.. i like the way the gmail web interface works.
14:47<fred1>i just wish I could use it, while having the 'backend store' of my messages be on *my* hardware
14:47<petemc>if the interface was the same, what would it matter whether it was downloaded or not?
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14:47<petemc>fwiw, i also think gmail is great, am moving all my organisations mail to it
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14:48<lucianotovi>hola
14:48<fred1>the point is, I can be at a friends, at work, wherever, and use any random computer with net access and a modern browser to access it
14:48<Axnor>hi,
14:48-!-gusnan [~gusnan@h84n7c1o269.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #debian
14:48<ml|>isn't that what gmail does now?
14:49<fred1>yes.. the only part I dont like is that it requires my mail to be stored on google's server
14:49<Titan8990><greybot> "I have to count the lines in a file. But I'm not allowed to use wc. And I'm not allowed to use grep. And I have to type it in using a teletype. With no paper in it. In the dark. Left-handed."
14:49<Axnor>i need some help with installing a new aacraid driver from the adaptec homepage! the problem is, that there is no deb package. i need someone who can tell me to make it
14:49<fred1>id like gmail, to be able to access 'external' imap accounts
14:49<fred1>eg, be a web-based imap client
14:49<metalqga>i'm still using my isp's mail, but since I couldn't open it from japan, makes me think of another mail server :(
14:49-!-lucianotovi [~lucianoto@host199.190-226-8.telecom.net.ar] has quit []
14:50<Titan8990>well, you would also be screwed if you chose to switch ISPs
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14:50<ml|>fred1: yes I got that, but what you want google will probably never do
14:50<fred1>or, be able to install something like gmail on my own webserver, that would access mail stored there
14:50<metalqga>well still using it since forgot ;)
14:50<fred1>I realize that
14:50<fred1>doesnt mean I cant dream ;)
14:51<metalqga>i've read somewhere, that google reads your mail
14:51-!-mercutio22 [~mercutio2@201-0-40-100.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #debian
14:51<metalqga>some security freaks somewjere
14:51<ml|>true dream away; the next best thing is use gmail for all your mail
14:51<fred1>uh.. they'd have to have a smal^H^H^H^H large army to even read 10% of all the mail flying thru gmail
14:51-!-Lin [~igormorga@mvx-200-142-97-206.mundivox.com] has joined #debian
14:51<fred1>thats what I currently do
14:51<metalqga>yeah , but if you remove the spam ;)
14:51<fred1>even still
14:52-!-rzyz [~david@lns-bzn-47f-62-147-250-108.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #debian
14:52<fred1>now, their keyword spiders, and whatnot, surely scan everything, in order to put up relevant ads
14:52<fred1>but its not like there is some person sitting reading your mail
14:52<fred1>its software
14:52<ml|>I doubt they do, but then your ISP can do the same if they wanted to unless you encrypt your mail
14:52<fred1>exactly
14:53<metalqga>true
14:53<sep_home>sure there is. there are curious and unethical people in every organization that wont be able to resist, when he's bored
14:53<metalqga>even easier, since the volume is much less
14:53<fred1>and trust me, as the former systems engineer at a regional ISP, the people that have access to do that have far better things to do
14:53*bremner wonders if this getting a bit #debian-offtopic worthy
14:53<sep_home>wont read ALL, might not ever read yours
14:53<ml|>bremer your tight
14:53<ml|>*right
14:54<sep_home>probably greps for image attachements or "password"
14:54<mercutio22>Hello room
14:54<fred1>you know, if someone comes in and starts asking for debian help, we *can* stop
14:54<sep_home>would it be better if the hypotetical bad employ used a hypothetical debian machine ? :)
14:54-!-rus__ [~rus@95.58.68.49] has joined #debian
14:54<ml|>!ot
14:54<dpkg>Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic (i.e. Debian support); imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day. #debian-offtopic is the place for longer off-topic discussions.
14:55-!-Fah [~jstelzer@67.132.206.254] has joined #debian
14:55<fred1>as long as there isn't anyone currently trying to ask for help, i fail to see how having a conversation about something else is 'chaos'
14:55<mercutio22>I just realized gparted shows my 300 gb partition almost entirely taken. I have debian and about 15 gb of work date and 40 gb of mp3 music and videos. Something is wrong
14:55-!-Fah [~jstelzer@67.132.206.254] has quit []
14:55<fred1>du is your friend
14:55<fred1>cd /
14:56<sep_home>a debian question: i lost the ability to shift+cursor keys to mark text, marking with mouse works. how can i reset without logoff ?
14:56<fred1>du -sc * | sort -n
14:56<chaos>would be a big problem to change the ot message without the word "chaos" in it?
14:56<locklace>!beer chaos
14:56*dpkg pulls out an exquisite Guinness for chaos
14:57<ml|>heh
14:57<fred1>mercutio22, then whtever you find is taking all the space, cd into that dir and do the same thing
14:57-!-dante_2core [~dante@80-219-138-134.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:57<ml|>df -h is helpful
14:57<fred1>if you do that not as root, you will get a few messages about not having permission to read some dirs.. unless those are the huge ones, nbd
14:57-!-dante_2core [~dante@80-219-138-134.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #debian
14:57<mercutio22>so... what do the numbers on the left correspond to? http://debian.pastebin.com/m659670eb
14:58<fred1>true, to tell you how much space is in use total on each fs
14:58<fred1>space used
14:58<ml|>I also try ncdu
14:58<fred1>lets see df -h
14:58-!-jmho_ is now known as jmho
14:58<Mish->Any PHP Regex guru's here? I want to say, take $names = 'Everything after "upgraded:" up until the first newline that starts with non-space.'
14:58<fred1>looks like about 30G in use total
14:58<fred1>34
14:58<fred1>wait
14:58<fred1>you need to cd / first
14:59<fred1>that was from your home dir
14:59<chaos>Mish-: try #php :
14:59<chaos>:)
14:59<ml|>du -hs makes more readable
14:59<chaos>but there's a function called preg_match("regex", $string) if that help
14:59<fred1>ml|, but harder to sort
14:59<sep_home>but breaks sane sorting,
14:59<fred1>sep_home, jynx!
15:00-!-frokostposer [~vash@5357E6E4.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:00<sep_home>:)
15:00<fred1>mercutio22, cd / before running that.. what you had was only your home dir, not the whole system.. also run df -h and include that output
15:00<ml|>leave out the -s
15:01<fred1>ml|, no, that avoids showing the space used by each and every file
15:01<fred1>just subdir totals
15:01-!-Stemby [~carlo@host-78-14-240-184.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined #debian
15:01<mercutio22>fred1: ok.. http://debian.pastebin.com/m10874ae2
15:01<ml|>well yeah I guess depends what youare after
15:01<fred1>mercutio22, df -h now
15:01<fred1>that will run faster
15:02-!-maKtieOS [~xyz@host187-140-dynamic.13-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:02<fred1>ml|, I use -s until i find what dir is taking the biggest space, then can use ls -l or du -h to find which files in that dir
15:02<ml|>df -h works in whatever dir you are in
15:02<fred1>right
15:02<mercutio22>fred1: http://debian.pastebin.com/m38b115a6 weird... I see no /dev/sdb. Thats where my debian installation is
15:02-!-Stemby [~carlo@host-78-14-240-184.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has left #debian []
15:02<fred1>mercutio22, hang on
15:03-!-afurlan [~afurlan@scorpion.mps.com.br] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:03<mercutio22>actually /dev/sdb5
15:03<fred1>mercutio22, no, its sda5
15:03<fred1>and its only 39% full
15:03<fred1>You also have an (external?) 466G drive that is 81% full
15:03<fred1>Iomaga?
15:03<mercutio22>fred1: what the heck... there should be no debian on sda
15:04<fred1>the Iomega
15:04-!-hscade_ [~hscade@rwls1.rz.htw-dresden.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:04<fred1>look at df -h
15:04<mercutio22>earlier I moved debian to sdb with dd
15:04<fred1>your / is /dev/sda
15:04<fred1>wait
15:04<mercutio22>and I removed debian from sda
15:04<fred1>type:
15:04<fred1>mount
15:04-!-neil [~neil@mandriva.plus.com] has joined #debian
15:04<mercutio22>mount
15:04<mercutio22>ops
15:04<fred1>the /etc/mtab on your rootfs is stale
15:04<fred1>in a shell :)
15:05<fred1>*might be* stale
15:05-!-neil is now known as Guest1135
15:05<fred1>actually.. that might not help.. either that or it really is still using /dev/sda5
15:05<ml|>things can change /dev/... wise
15:05<fred1>maybe
15:05-!-dogi [~dogi@75-147-59-54-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #debian
15:05<mercutio22>http://debian.pastebin.com/m14449aa4
15:05<fred1>depends on the order they are detected, with sd
15:06<fred1>fdisk -l
15:06<mercutio22>Yeah.. maybe I am still on sda5.. but I did resize my windows partition onto that
15:06-!-stroyan [~mike@174-16-145-13.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #debian
15:06<Guest1135>can someone please help i understand stand that perl is supposed to be installed with ubuntu software but when i try and execute a script with the extension .pl on my web site it keeps asking wether i want to download it or not and won't execute does any body know how to change this?
15:06<fred1>mercutio22, fdisk -l
15:06<ml|>I like to use UUID incase they do
15:06<fred1>im not even touching that..
15:07-!-Torsten [~chatzilla@109.192.131.230] has joined #debian
15:07-!-Athunye [~Irssi@201-11-239-216.paemt705.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Quit: Test something.]
15:07<valdyn>Guest1135: apache is not your bash
15:07<ml|>Guest1135: using ubuntu?
15:07<fred1>!ubuntu
15:07<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it is unlikely to live up to Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu (irc.freenode.net) instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian>.
15:07<Guest1135>yeah
15:07-!-JohnDoh [~jeff@cpc1-mort1-0-0-cust399.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:08<mercutio22>http://debian.pastebin.com/m42ffcd90
15:08<fred1>but you might try looking for an apache support resource
15:08<valdyn>Guest1135: you need to install (and set up ) something like libapache2-mod-perl
15:08<Guest1135>ok sorry didn't realise was in wrong irc channel
15:08<fred1>mercutio22, woah..
15:08<fred1>thats not good
15:08<Guest1135>i'll try that first
15:08-!-Flooo`Off is now known as Flooo
15:08<mercutio22>fred1: whats wrong?
15:09<fred1>unless it really is at /dev/sdb, and for some reason its just leftover mtab cruft
15:09-!-QPrime [~QPrime@96-36-117-011.static.hckr.nc.charter.com] has joined #debian
15:09<Titan8990>Partition 1 does not end on cylinder boundary.
15:09<fred1>thats nbd
15:09<Titan8990>looks like something messed with your geometry
15:09-!-Athunye [~Irssi@201-11-239-216.paemt705.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #debian
15:09<fred1>those are windows parts
15:09<valdyn>Titan8990: thats not a problem
15:09<Titan8990>valdyn, in debian no... it will be a problem in window however
15:10<fred1>the problem is (or might be) that his debian thinks his / is on /dev/sda5, which doesnt exist
15:10<valdyn>Titan8990: no idea
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15:10<fred1>unless its something leftover in initrd
15:10<fred1>hrm
15:10<mercutio22>yeah... I remember that weird error on gparted. But am I operating debian on sda5 or sdb5?
15:10<fred1>maybe rebuild initrd?
15:10<Titan8990>the initrd does not store that type of information
15:10<Titan8990>it is stored in /boot/grub/menu.lst and /etc/fstab
15:10<fred1>the thing is, when the root fs is mounted at first, it is readonly.. so it cant record in /etc/mtab the fact that it is mounted
15:10<valdyn>mercutio22: it is possible that your "df" shows sdaX for / while it really is sdbX
15:11<Titan8990>fred1, that root fs is not the REAL rootfs
15:11<fred1>exactly
15:11<fred1>er.. no.. i kow the difference between the initrd and the real root
15:11<valdyn>mercutio22: or on other words, /etc/fstab is responsible for the df output for /, but does not know what it really is
15:12<fred1>aha.. do this:
15:12<Titan8990>i have restored enough backups onto different hardware to know where the hard drive information is stored...
15:12<fred1>cat /proc/mounts
15:12<Titan8990>I have never had to rebuild an initrd
15:12<fred1>that *will* be accurate
15:12<mercutio22>valdyn: so all I have to do is fix fstab?
15:12<fred1>if it correctly shows /dev/sdb5, then yes, i would just fix fstab
15:12<valdyn>mercutio22: no idea, but maybe it needs fixing anyway
15:12<fred1>mercutio22, cat /proc/mounts
15:12-!-BlackFate [~asd@150.140.231.7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:13<valdyn>im not sure if even /proc/mounts is right, is it?
15:13<fred1>/proc/mounts should be the real mounts from the kernel
15:13<valdyn>yea
15:13<fred1>ignoring anything in fstab or anywhere else
15:13<mercutio22>fred1: http://debian.pastebin.com/m596f311d
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15:14<fred1>hrm.
15:14<fred1>its by uuid
15:14<fred1>question
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15:14<valdyn>mercutio22: ls -l /dev/disk/by-uuid/88fc3b63-4385-48a2-a299-6aa59da96720
15:15<fred1>did you physically move the disk to move from sda to sdb, or did you copy stuff from one disk to another
15:15-!-BlackFate [~asd@150.140.231.7] has joined #debian
15:15<fred1>and if you copied, how did you fix it up to know where to boot from?
15:15<fred1>er.. change the scsi id, or copy..
15:15-!-Guest1135 [~neil@mandriva.plus.com] has left #debian [Leaving]
15:15<fred1>er.. even if its ide and not scsi..
15:15<fred1>ugh
15:15<ml|>when you move stuff you need to refelect the changes in fstab and with grub
15:15<mercutio22>valdyn: http://debian.pastebin.com/m42f6fcd4
15:16<fred1>the point is, did you tell the existing drive to be sdb instead of sda, or did you copy
15:16<valdyn>mercutio22: so sdb5, isnt what what you wanted?
15:16<mercutio22>fred1: I moved the partition with dd
15:16<fred1>aha
15:16<fred1>sdb5
15:16<mercutio22>I moved sda5 to sdb5
15:16<fred1>and then how did you fixup the boot process?
15:16<fred1>copied
15:16<valdyn>mercutio22: you only need to fix /etc/fstab now
15:16-!-mdmarmer [14891235@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
15:16<valdyn>mercutio22: i would not use sdb5 though but the uuid
15:16-!-rudi_s [~rudi_s@p5DCE5B5F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:17<ml|>yes uuid
15:17<fred1>you got the right format for uuid for him?
15:17<fred1>mine has lvm mappings
15:17<valdyn>fred1: no need
15:17<valdyn>fred1: he can use /dev/disk/by-uuid/88fc3b63-4385-48a2-a299-6aa59da96720 straight
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15:17<fred1>ah ok.. well then thats the right format ;)
15:17<mercutio22>ok, so the problem is indeed fstab? Should I post it?
15:18<ml|>UUID= / ext4 defaults,noatime 0 1 for example
15:18<valdyn>fred1: only if his udev didnt support uuids like that he could use the other format
15:18<fred1>nah just edit it.. replace the /dev/sda5 with what valdyn said
15:18<valdyn>fred1: only if his udev didnt support uuids like that he would have to use the other format
15:18<fred1>ext4 ?$
15:18<fred1>?*
15:18<valdyn>( or in fact all this doesnt matter as fstab has no relevance except for df )
15:18<fred1>exactly
15:18<fred1>anyway
15:19<fred1>to address your original concern. you / fs appears to only be 39% full..
15:19<ml|>well should correct it to avoid future confusion tho
15:19<mercutio22>here is my current fstab http://debian.pastebin.com/m46d70261
15:19<fred1>(looking at your df -h whish shows a total of about 41G in use
15:19<valdyn>mercutio22: thats a little misleading
15:20<fred1>mercutio22, did you just change that to sdb5? or was that what it was already?
15:20<mercutio22>valdyn: sorry, what is misleading? I
15:20<valdyn>mercutio22: the uuid only incidentally matches sdb5, so its misleading to display / being referenced by sdb5
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15:21<fred1>even more so to shows sda5 ;)
15:21<mercutio22>fred1: I changed it manually, but maybe I shouldn't have
15:21<fred1>well sdb5 is at least accurate for now, as long as you dont move it again
15:21<mercutio22>What do you guys suggest I do now? I am a bit confised
15:21<mercutio22>confused
15:21<fred1>does df show sdb5 now?
15:21<valdyn>mercutio22: your boot manager sets / to be /dev/disk/by-uuid/foo
15:22<mercutio22>fred1: I didn't change anything yet
15:22<ml|>I would change it to use uuid
15:22<valdyn>mercutio22: therefoere fstab should use the *same*
15:22<fred1>if not then after reboot it will.. but.. your original question about space is answered?
15:23<valdyn>do we have some initrd interaction ehre im not aware of? did his df show sda while fstab shows sdb?
15:23<fred1>oh.. gparted shows what space is assigned to partitions.. so if you have a 400G drive, and you make a 200G partition, it will show 200G in 'use'.. but the 200G is not actually occupied
15:24<mercutio22>If I change fstab to read uuid then the free space output of df -h should be correct right? How do I do that? Can I trust the output of blkid and just replace the lines in fstab where it says /dev/sdaX /dev/sdbY by the corresponding uuids?
15:24<fred1>df (with -h to make easier to read) shows what is actually 'occupied'
15:24<valdyn>mercutio22: yes
15:24<ml|>blkid shows correct you can verify with /dev/disk/by-uuid/
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15:25-!-awoodland [~woodalan@intmlp0486.intm.aber.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:25<ml|>you can either use valdyn's method or what I suggested
15:26-!-dcraig is now known as Guest1139
15:26<fred1>i must be off
15:27-!-mode/#debian [+l 390] by debhelper
15:27<ml|>l8r
15:27-!-awoodland [~woodalan@intmlp0486.intm.aber.ac.uk] has joined #debian
15:28<flower>is there a good way for powermanagement for my external usb backup drive?
15:28-!-kubyz [~luser@84.122.116.105.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #debian
15:29<mercutio22>ok.. I will try to edit now
15:29<valdyn>flower: just leave it running
15:29<mase>flower powermanagement for external usb drives is very sad to implement.
15:29<mercutio22>sorry fred, you wanted the output of df -h?
15:30<valdyn>flower: spinning disks are like .1 watts
15:30-!-cor_r [~cor@p54BEC207.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian
15:30<flower>ok advise taken
15:30-!-GoNoGo [~GoNoGo@cro34-3-82-236-93-215.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian
15:31<ml|>if you are not going to use it for a long time you can umount it and turn it off
15:31<mase>flower hardly depends on the chip (external usb-sata chip); but you can try some scsi-tools; may work sometimes
15:32-!-davi [~davi@1GLAAB065.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
15:33<mercutio22>guys, df -h still shows the same output. Do I have to reboot?
15:34-!-olpcfan_ [~a@d24-235-185-28.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #debian
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15:35<mercutio22>here's what I did: http://debian.pastebin.com/mdcc8c61
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15:38<valdyn>mercutio22: dpkg-reconfigure "linux-image-$(uname -r)"
15:38-!-olpcfan_ [~a@d24-235-185-28.home1.cgocable.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
15:38<valdyn>mercutio22: then reboot
15:38<ml|>http://debian.pastebin.com/d1b755f9b
15:38<ml|>mercutio22: ^
15:38-!-muammar [~muammar@201.209.150.119] has quit [Quit: imagine a big red swirl here..!]
15:38<fnmueller>mercutio22: /media/Iomega\040HDD, sure about that?
15:38<ml|>you forgot UUID
15:39<mercutio22>ml|: thats the external HD. I forgot about it.
15:39<mercutio22>ml|: wilco
15:39-!-JohnDoh [~jeff@cpc1-mort1-0-0-cust399.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #debian
15:40<ml|>mercutio22: you can try mount -a after editing /etc/fstab
15:40<ml|>mercutio22: then it wrong that's not / look at it
15:42<mercutio22>ml thats isn't right?
15:42<ml|>mercutio22: after looking at it again that is / look at it with the output that you have from blkid
15:42<ml|>15:39:28 < mercutio22> ml|: thats the external HD. I forgot about it.
15:42<ml|>then ^?
15:43-!-Torsten__W [~torsten@91-67-218-67-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #debian
15:43<ml|>oh that was meant for fnmueller ?
15:44*fnmueller is confused
15:44<mercutio22>hehehe... so am I
15:44<ml|>heh read the above again
15:44<fnmueller>ml|: I meant the / - it looks kind of funny there
15:44-!-xchat [~ubuntu@host166-178-dynamic.180-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
15:44<fnmueller>err, I mean \
15:44-!-xchat [~ubuntu@host166-178-dynamic.180-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit []
15:44<ml|>fnmueller: yes I see what you mean
15:45-!-rjent [~rjent@dpc674596138.direcpc.com] has joined #debian
15:45<mercutio22>I don't know what that slash is for. Should it really be there?
15:45<ml|>fnmueller: < mercutio22> ml|: thats the external HD. I forgot about it. <-- was for you not me I believe
15:45<fnmueller>ohh, ic
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15:46<fnmueller>mercutio22: I don't know, I just somehow doubt that there is a \ supposed to be in a path
15:46<ml|>yeah does not look right ls /media
15:46-!-johfel [~johfel@p5B0CEADC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian
15:46<mercutio22>cdrom cdrom0 Iomega HDD
15:47-!-sarius [~sarius@79.116.10.167] has quit []
15:47<ml|>ah, you should use Iomega-HDD
15:47<ml|>or something like that
15:48<mercutio22>ml|: maybe "/media/Iomega\ HDD"
15:48<mercutio22>ok...
15:48<mercutio22>done
15:48<fnmueller>I simply don't know if putting just the uuid in the fstab is correct either, I normally do it by using somthing like /dev/disk/by-uuid/8f32ecd1-6802-40fc-9253-12b8561b5399 , but I just don't know if it works your way too
15:48<ml|>well best not to use spaces
15:49<ml|>fnmueller: either way is fine
15:49-!-chilan [~chilan@91.62.201.200] has joined #debian
15:49<ml|>I have had no issues
15:49<fnmueller>ml|: ty :-), learned something :D
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15:49<mercutio22>ok.. should I reboot now?
15:50<ml|>try mount -a
15:50<ml|>see if you get any errors
15:50<ml|>fnmueller: like millions ways to do the same thing some times ;)
15:51<fnmueller>yep
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15:52<mercutio22>hmm... the Iomega HD line has an error. Probably that space character. I do not want to change it because my torrents are there... maybe I could just... wait let me try to put that number back
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15:54<mercutio22>ok, no output from mount -a
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15:54<fnmueller>good
15:54<ml|>I think using UUID for everything should be default
15:54*fnmueller thinks so too
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15:55<ml|>grub2 does :)
15:55<mercutio22>ml|: for the external HD I had to go fnmueller's way
15:55<fnmueller>ml|: however, it gets tricky if you make backups using dd
15:55<fnmueller>mercutio22: well, you should be able to use uuid for that too
15:56<fnmueller>ml|: I once plugged in two drives whoch were identical uuid wise - not a good idea
15:56<ml|>mercutio22: well, glad it's working, but try not use spaces next
15:56<fnmueller>ml|: it's a good way to bring a server to a standstill ^^
15:56<mercutio22>ml|: yeah... the label with spaces came from factory..
15:56<ml|>mercutio22: yeah you can change fstab to use UUID that's what I do for eveyrthing
15:57<ml|>well that uses UUID anyways ;)
15:57<ml|>*anything
15:57<mercutio22>ml|: all that didn't change the output of df -h though
15:57-!-rzyz [~david@lns-bzn-47f-62-147-250-108.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:58<ml|>try what valdyn suggested and I guees you need to reboot
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15:58<mercutio22>ok.. lets see
15:59<ml|>fnmueller: yes, just need to becareful when using dd ;)
15:59-!-rzyz [~david@lns-bzn-47f-62-147-250-108.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #debian
15:59<fnmueller>:D
16:00<mercutio22>thanks doods. I will reboot now
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16:02<ml|>fnmueller: I prefer cp -a or rsync over dd
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16:03<valdyn>pvmove >>
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16:03<fnmueller>ml|: ohh, it depends on what kind of backup you need. I prefer unison over rsync and especially co -a (cp does not check if the tranfer was succesfull). But I believe dd is great to copy a harddisk - which I use it for
16:03<mercutio22>nah.. thanks for the fstab help guys. the free space issu is not gone however
16:03<fnmueller>ml|: I use dd for offsite backups
16:04<fnmueller>meaning, I copy an HDD and will put it at different offsite locations
16:04<fnmueller>just in case the building burns down or if there is a police raid
16:05-!-NeuNeu_ [~lynx@ALyon-554-1-11-150.w92-137.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian
16:05<mercutio22>fnmueller: a police raid?
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16:05<ml|>ah
16:05<fnmueller>mercutio22: can happen anytime to anyone nowadays imho, especially in germany
16:06<ml|>mercutio22: still the same, how?
16:06<mercutio22>fnmueller: no kidding. You should move to Brazil. Anyway... any other clues on the freespace thing?
16:06<fnmueller>mercutio22: and considering that I need my data in order to work .....
16:06*fnmueller missed that problem
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16:08<mercutio22>df -h still does not report freespace on my system partition.. oh wait.. check this out. http://debian.pastebin.com/m230b7cbb
16:08<mercutio22>it says the size is 111G?
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16:09<s4br3>Hi, I have burned several DVDs today using K3B, but when it came to burning 650MB to a 700MB CD it refused. So did gomebaker too. Am I toast, burning?
16:09<ml|>ah and it should be?
16:09<cor_r>mercutio22, it says the freespace?!?
16:09-!-emj__ [~emj@h-170-112.A212.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #debian
16:10<mercutio22>oh crap.. I think I really am not on the second drive
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16:10<cor_r>mercutio22, 66gig available
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16:11<ml|>mercutio22: I'm lost now, so you move stuff around but not sure how/what you did?
16:11<ml|>moved*
16:12<ml|>I think mercutio22 means that the drive should have more free space?
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16:12<emj__>Anyone know of a script to create chroot environments? specifically from deb packages and all it depends creating a chroot..
16:12<mercutio22>ml|: no, I am sure of what I did, but it seems I am booting into an inexisting debian partition. You see, I did dd if=/dev/sda5 of=/dev/sdb5. Then I resized the windows partition (dev/sda2) on top of the entire sda device
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16:12<mercutio22>but somehow I am still booting into that debian partition (/dev/sda5)
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16:13<mercutio22>gparted says that does not even exist no more
16:13<mercutio22>fsdisk days that isn't there
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16:14<fnmueller>mercutio22: if you dded it, it has the size of the old partition
16:15<fnmueller>mercutio22: the rest of the disk is unsused free space
16:15<fnmueller>mercutio22: so I believe everything is perfectly fine
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16:15<mercutio22>wait.. I got this device-manager app... I "activated" (according to the gui) some new partitions and now I see: http://debian.pastebin.com/ma054d3b
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16:16<mercutio22>fnmueller: after dd, I edited the partitions with gparted
16:16<fnmueller>mercutio22: if you wanted to move the files from the old partition to the new one while using all the space within the target partition you should have formatted the target partition first and rsync the data to the target partition
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16:17<mercutio22>fnmueller: yeah... I am a firt timmer into moving partitions
16:17<ml|>mercutio22: can help much I don't use dd much, I just create what is needed on other drive and use cp -a or rsync -a tec
16:18<ml|>etc*
16:18<fnmueller>mercutio22: you mounted /dev/sdb5 twice
16:18<mercutio22>fnmueller: yeah... lemme fix this
16:18-!-steffan [steffan@steffan.netrep.oftc.net] has joined #debian
16:18<fnmueller>once to /media/Debian_ and once to /media/Debian
16:18<fnmueller>ok
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16:19<ml|>that must be some dd thing
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16:19<fnmueller>mercutio22: btw: it's easier to manually mount a harddrive that is only supposed to be mounted for demo purposes
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16:19<Onepamopa>evening folks ;)
16:19<fnmueller>ml|: sure, dd copies sectors, therefore, a partition, inclusing everything --> includung the partition size
16:20-!-Meise [~daniel@port-92-204-118-84.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
16:20<fnmueller>and I need to check my spelling better
16:20<ml|>fnmueller: yes, not always the best route to take
16:20<fnmueller>yep
16:20<ml|>I like to keep things simple as possible
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16:21<mercutio22>the fact is.. gparted says I have 222gb of /dev/sdb5 occupied. That can't be right.
16:21<fnmueller>me too
16:21<ml|>mercutio22: it is mentioned twice no?
16:21<fnmueller>mercutio22: probably, you could check the with fdisk
16:22<ml|>< fnmueller> once to /media/Debian_ and once to /media/Debian
16:22<ml|>is that even the samething we are talking about? I'm confused now
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16:23<fnmueller>ml|: I believe mercutio22 fixed that already - he said so
16:23-!-hscade_ [~hscade@g224197237.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #debian
16:23<fnmueller>ml|: I would check the partition tables using fdisk to get an overview of what is going on
16:24<mercutio22>I think fstab is fixed.. df -h says only 66gb occupied at /dev/sdb5
16:24<fnmueller>e.g fdisk (dev/sda [Enter] p [Enter]
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16:25<kop>fnmueller: (I like 'cfdisk -l /dev/sdb'. YMMV.)
16:25<schmichael>is the bin user (uid 2) used by *anything* by default? a friend is seeing e-mails from that user
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16:26<schmichael>on a debian server i can't find a single process running as bin or owned by bin
16:26<fnmueller>kop: that works too :-) I just like it simple :D
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16:26<mase>mercutio22 occupied? i thought "free"?
16:26<mercutio22>mase: yes... my mistake
16:26<mercutio22>damn
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16:27*kop gets frightened inside fdisk ;)
16:27<ml|>hehe
16:28<ml|>cfdisk is a bit friendlier ;)
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16:28<kop>ml| Yes. I keep hearing that parted does better work and keep thinking I should use that.
16:28<mercutio22>yeah what the heck... it says the partition has only 111GB
16:28<mercutio22>thats not right
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16:29<fnmueller>mercutio22: well, you dded it, so it makes sense
16:29<mercutio22>fnmueller: but then I resized it with gparted
16:29<mercutio22>fnmueller: I can't?
16:29<mercutio22>hmm
16:30<mercutio22>maybe thats why it shows a lot of space taken
16:30<fnmueller>I really don't know gparted. Never had the urge to use it
16:30<mercutio22>I had dd windows there first
16:30<ogre>hey sorry for the question but I am working w/ a dr. friend who wants to go all open source for his free clinic. I hear debian-med is a good metapackage. I have enabled all default repos refreshed list and tried to get the package via apt-get with no luck. is it another repo or perhaps an SVN repo? The google fu I usually use on this stuff is a little off today
16:30<fnmueller>it depends on the used filesystem if resizing is possible
16:30<ml|>seems something went wrong with dd
16:31<ml|>well not worng ;)
16:31<fnmueller>it's a feature :P
16:31<ml|>haha
16:32<Titan8990>ogre, where did you find that metapackage?
16:32*fnmueller uses LVM, therefore there is no need for resizing tools
16:33<Titan8990>fnmueller, uhh, you still have to use tools to resize...
16:33<fnmueller>Titan8990: well, but it's _more_ like a feature of lvm
16:34<fnmueller>Titan8990: just plug in a harddrive, add it to the volume group, done
16:34<Titan8990>such as fdisk to resize the partition and resize2fs to resize the filesystem
16:34-!-emj__ [~emj@h-170-112.A212.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: emj__]
16:34<Titan8990>fnmueller, yes, but often it is best not to allocate all of your VG, so you can grow your lvms as needed
16:34<ogre>Titan8990, I havent found it yet. thats what I'm looking for. I found the wiki http://wiki.debian.org/DebianMed
16:34<fnmueller>Titan8990: true
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16:35<ogre>doh! says its a websvn
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16:37<ml|>mercutio22: better now?
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16:37<Titan8990>ogre, http://wiki.debian.org/DebianMed/LiveCD
16:37<Titan8990>ogre, i think that is for people doing development
16:38<Titan8990>ogre, the svn i mean
16:39<mercutio22>ml|: I wonder if this thing is solvable
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16:39<ogre>Titan8990, you just saved me hours of googling. thanks. I'm entirely new at this. just a good googler usually. I think I may have gotten in pretty deep but I'm persistent. ;)
16:39<Titan8990>ogre, always try to use official docs instead of google
16:40<Titan8990>ogre, often, you find google telling you the *wrong* way to accomplish something
16:40<Titan8990>although, that isn't always applicable
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16:40<ogre>Titan8990, yeah its funny when you see stuff from like 03 telling you how to set something up now
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16:41<svend_>h
16:41<ogre>ive run into stuff like that where i got confused
16:41<Titan8990>ogre, you will likely want to subscribe to their mailing list, if you plan to work with it a lot
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16:41<ml|>mercutio22: I don't know since I do not have much dd experience, maybe others can help or if you have backups start over and don't use dd this time, sometimes it's better to use other tools
16:41<Titan8990>i imagine thats where they do most of their support
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16:42<ogre>Titan8990, thats why I love the linux community. people are really helpful. thanks again
16:43<mercutio22>ml.. yep. I guess I will backup the current system with unison, reformat and recover
16:43<fnmueller>the easiest is imho to delete both partitions (freesspace and the system partition), partition the target partition, rsync the files from the backup to the target partition. Don't forget you will have to modify fstab accordingly after that
16:43<fnmueller>or use unison, yes
16:43<mercutio22>I will never use dd again =]
16:44<fnmueller>but in this special case rsync should be faster than unison while having no backdrafts
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16:44<fnmueller>böses edge
16:44<marius>nabend
16:44<fnmueller>manchmal ist das doch etwas verzögert ^^
16:44<ml|>mercutio22: good luck and since you will create new fs the UUID's will change correct fstab and anything else that use UUID to use the new ones
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16:45<mercutio22>ml|: oh shit, you are right
16:45-!-hobbestigrou_ [~Hobbestig@92.243.0.13] has joined #debian
16:45<mercutio22>damn
16:45<mercutio22>=P
16:45-!-Torsten [~chatzilla@109.192.131.230] has joined #debian
16:45<ml|>mercutio22: simple just use a livecd :)
16:46<ml|>to correct what's need afterwords
16:46<mercutio22>ml|: yes.. I have an ubuntu live cd here
16:46<marius>hi hab grad die zugangs daten für meinen ersten vserver bekommen und schon probleme ^^
16:47<marius>dpkg spuckt folgendes aus
16:47<dpkg>marius: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox?
16:47-!-ptr [~ptr@nyc01.limewire.com] has joined #debian
16:47<ml|>mercutio22: /msg dpkg grml for an alternative
16:47<ml|>!en
16:47<dpkg>The language of #debian is English. We will do our best to help you regardless of your level of English but you might be more comfortable asking for help in your own language. Ask me about your language code for more information, for example /msg dpkg br ; /msg dpkg pt ; /msg dpkg es ; /msg dpkg fr ; /msg dpkg de
16:47<marius>oh sry english channel
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16:48<mercutio22>ml|: alright thanks
16:49<ml|>np
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16:51<ml|>mercutio22: and don't be harsh with dd it was just doing it's job ;)
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16:52<mercutio22>ml|: yeah, it just does not play nice with parted
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16:54<mercutio22>ml|: just one thing... can I find out what is taking all the freespace?
16:54<fnmueller>mercutio22: I would rather say partet is faulty
16:54-!-raul [~raul@42-188-223-201.adsl.terra.cl] has joined #debian
16:54<mercutio22>fnmueller: really? That would be nicer for me.
16:54<fnmueller>mercutio22: what do you mean by taking free space? free space is free space...
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16:55<mercutio22>fnmueller: yeah.. that was badly worded
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16:55<mercutio22>what I mean is.. my hard drive has 300 gb, df says only 111GB available.. so where is the rest of it?
16:55<ml|>you have two /media/Debian Debian_
16:55<fnmueller>mercutio22: unpartitioned space
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16:56<fnmueller>mercutio22: furthermore: df only prints out the partition size, not the disksize
16:57<ml|>what does du -hs /media/Debian and fo Debian_ say?
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16:57<ml|>*for
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16:57<mercutio22>fnmueller: I see so you are saying that its just gparted misreporting the partition table
16:57<fnmueller>yep
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16:59<mercutio22>fnmueller: well... fdisk can build a new partition table right?
17:00<fnmueller>yes
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17:01<mercutio22>fnmueller: but fdisk reports the correct partition size, contrary to df -h
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17:01<ml|>fdisk or cfdisk will wipe it all and start fresh
17:01<fnmueller>mercutio22: that is a new information
17:02<mercutio22>fnmueller: no wait... maybe I am wrong
17:02-!-Titan8990 [~Titan8990@74-143-31-20.static.insightbb.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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17:03<ml|>mercutio22: also don't forget to create ann the necessary partitions and fs like swap for example
17:03<ml|>*all
17:03<mercutio22>fnmueller: http://debian.pastebin.com/m39e76224
17:04<mercutio22>ml|: about your question:
17:04<mercutio22>ml|: about your question:
17:04<mercutio22>ops
17:04<mercutio22>http://debian.pastebin.com/m7ef1c229
17:05-!-peterS [~peter@adsl-65-68-1-68.dsl.wchtks.swbell.net] has joined #debian
17:06<ml|>hmm, use the full path for Debian_ also
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17:07<mercutio22>ml|: same message ... cannot access and fo
17:07<fnmueller>mercutio22: I see two HD, both 320 GB in size. One disk is a sole windows system, the other one /dev/sdb a sole linux system
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17:08<mercutio22>fnmueller: so that information is inconsistent with df -h but consistent with fdisk -l
17:08<fnmueller>furthermore, I see that the windows system is misconfigured, as the start partition is longer than the cylinder boundary
17:08<mercutio22>fnmueller: ok, but thats on sda
17:09<ml|>mercutio22: yes, not that way; du -hs /media/Debian then du -hs /media/Debian_ no rush when you get a chance
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17:09<fnmueller>mercutio22: I don't see inconsistency
17:09<fnmueller>it all makes sense to me, honsetly
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17:11<ml|>fnmueller: maybe explain it ;)
17:11<gnude>hello whereever you are
17:12<fnmueller>ml|: easy, / and /dev/sdb5 is the same. There was no dd action done to /dev/sdax, nor any change done by parted accordingly
17:13<mercutio22>fnmueller: I don't mean that what you said is inconsistent. I am just saying that the out of the boundary problem is in sda, the device containing windows. I am now worried about sdb, the device containing linux where the amount of freespace is misreported. I'd like to solve this issue first, assuming its independent.
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17:13<fnmueller>mercutio22: calculate the size by counting the blocks - it fits imho, there is no misreporting
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17:14<ml|>;0
17:14<mercutio22>fnmueller: oh ok, sorry for the confusion
17:14<mercutio22>lets see that
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17:15<ml|>fnmueller: btw, thanks for explanation
17:16<mercutio22>ml|: here it is http://debian.pastebin.com/m4131600
17:16<ml|>oh, heh 40gb and 4kb
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17:18<mercutio22>fnmueller: since sdb5 begins at 38276 and finishes at 38913 it has 637 blocks
17:18<mercutio22>fnmueller: now how does that correspond to MB?
17:18<mercutio22>or GB?
17:20<fnmueller>mercutio22: 637 Blocks x 255 heads x 63 sectors x 512
17:20<mercutio22>geez.. no wait I messed up
17:20<mercutio22>sdb5 starts at 2 and finishes at 38276
17:20<mercutio22>38274 blocks then
17:20<mase>fnmueller ???
17:21<mercutio22>now how do I read that in Gb?
17:21<ml|>I get 314814366720 for 38274
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17:22<fnmueller>hmm, you are right
17:22<fnmueller>this time, messed up
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17:23<fnmueller>mase: yes?
17:23<mercutio22>ml|, fnmueller thus, fdisk and fpated agree, df -h disagrees
17:23<mercutio22>dang
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17:23<fnmueller>well, it must be something partet did or did not do
17:24<fnmueller>mercutio22: did you run an fsck on the partition?
17:24<mercutio22>I mean.. gparted and fdisk show consistent results for partition size.
17:24<mercutio22>fnmueller: no. should I?
17:24<fnmueller>mercutio22: you should try it. Maybe the size really is correct, but was not reported or something
17:24<mase>fnmueller arent heads/sectors/etc obsolete since around 1998? (linear block numeration)
17:25<fnmueller>mase: I don't think so, the internals still work with that
17:25<fnmueller>mase: it will be outdated when everyone uses SSDs
17:26<mercutio22>fnmueller: I need to boot into a live cd to fsck right? Or maybe there's a way to force on next boot?
17:26<ml|>a ways off for SSD, but hopefully not
17:26<fnmueller>actually there is a way
17:26<fnmueller>let me remeber
17:26<mase>fnmueller or SATA or PATA since 2000?
17:26<mercutio22>fnmueller: shutdown -rF now?
17:27-!-mode/#debian [+l 390] by debhelper
17:27<ml|>mercutio22: shutdown -rF now is one way
17:27<ml|>heh
17:27<fnmueller>shutdown -rF now
17:27<fnmueller>mercutio22: yes
17:27<mercutio22>ok... I will be back after that
17:27-!-Guest1148 is now known as dcraig
17:27<mercutio22>see you guys, good conversation
17:27<fnmueller>mase: PATA since 2000, enlight me :-)
17:27<ml|>good luck
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17:28<fnmueller>ml|: does shutdown -rF now really still work on debian?
17:28<ml|>yes
17:28<ml|>I use it as needed
17:28<fnmueller>cocool, ok :-)
17:29<ml|>also touch /fsck or something likr that
17:29<fnmueller>I now that one too
17:29<fnmueller>just had to remeber it :D
17:29<fnmueller>didn't use this for a long time
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17:29<ml|>why would you think it did not?
17:30<fnmueller>ml|: because I remeber having problems with it a while ago
17:30-!-gnude [~andre@i59F4C37F.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
17:30<ml|>oh
17:30-!-lfox [~LuciusFox@p4FD67068.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian
17:30<fnmueller>well, this might not have been on debian
17:30<ml|>regardless it works :)
17:30<ml|>on debian
17:31<fnmueller>great
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17:32<fnmueller>ml|: judging from the time mercutio22 has been absent I guess there were problems found
17:32<fnmueller>I hope his system didn't explode
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17:33<ml|>he maybe be doing something else, heh
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17:33<ml|>nice maybe be ;)
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17:34<ml|>fnmueller: fsck can take a while; tho with ext4 it works fast
17:34<fnmueller>ml|: http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/linux-force-fsck-on-the-next-reboot-or-boot-sequence/ --> "Your ’shutdown’ tip won’t work on many modern distributions, since they use Upstart instead of the old Sysvinit system."
17:34-!-ArxeoLog [DRUoleG@95.141.228.89.chebnet.ru] has joined #debian
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17:35<fnmueller>ml|: true, I forgot he has got a monster partition (in size)
17:35<ArxeoLog>hi all:)
17:35<mercutio22>nah.. fsck did not fix it
17:35<fnmueller>hmm, that sucks
17:35<ArxeoLog>who can help install debian in OldWorld mac?:)
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17:36<dondelelcaro>ArxeoLog: #debianppc may be able to help; you can always try to ask here
17:36<ArxeoLog>thx:)
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17:37<edbian>I am on an acer netbook with no CD drive that I can't get to run unetbootin. It has ubuntu installed on it. Is there some way to run the debian installer and install a debian OS on this laptop inside Ubuntu ??
17:37<ml|>fnmueller: hmm, good to know, but debian still uses Sysvinit
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17:38<ml|>wonder if and when debian will use Upstart
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17:38<gnude>hello, how can i change the date from the console?
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17:40<fnmueller>mercutio22: I ran out of ideas
17:41<mercutio22>fnmueller: yeah... me too. I guess I'll have to take the backup route
17:41<adb>gnude, date -u 0107224010.00
17:41<adb>as root
17:41<fnmueller>probably
17:41<gnude>i want as date 10.january 2010
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17:42<adb>why ?
17:42<adb>gnude, date -u 0110224010.00
17:42<gnude>what is the format of the number? i dont understand it
17:43<ml|>it seems for the release of squeeze debian will use Upstart ... http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2009/09/msg00003.html
17:44<adb>gnude, run 'date' after previous command , will see how it is made
17:44<fnmueller>ml|: that is good to know
17:44<ml|>yes
17:44<fnmueller>ml|: I don't think about this change badly
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17:45<ml|>fnmueller: what do you mean?
17:45-!-jthomas_sb [~jthomas_s@nat.sierrabravo.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:45<fnmueller>ml|: well, I embrace this change. I am not against it
17:45<ml|>ah, yes it's for the better
17:46<ml|>touch /forcefsck still works :)
17:47-!-mode/#debian [+l 382] by debhelper
17:48<fnmueller>yep
17:48<adb>gnude, man date, may help ;)
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17:48<ml|>need to start using that when I need to instead of shutdown -rF; unless they make something to replace it
17:48-!-Lin [~igormorga@mvx-200-142-97-206.mundivox.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
17:48<gnude>ok
17:49<fnmueller>ml|: modify .bashrc ;-)
17:49<fnmueller>alias it
17:49-!-pos [~mark@124-168-214-250.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:49<ml|>heh
17:50-!-fmedio [~fmedio@nat-204-14-239-190-sfo.net.salesforce.com] has joined #debian
17:50<ml|>I prefer not to use aliases, good way to forget commands
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17:51<ml|>I tend to use history that way I still see the full command
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17:52<fnmueller>I understand
17:53<dondelelcaro>ArxeoLog: please keep it in the channel; I'm not watching IRC
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17:55<ml|>mercutio22: preparing for all that needs to be done?
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17:57<mercutio22>ml|: I think I will post into the forums first. Then I will start the backup process.. If no one comes up with an insight soon I will proceed.
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17:57<ml|>sounds like a plan good luck
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18:15<mercutio22>ml|: it seems some people went through this before: http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2000/06/msg00361.html
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18:20<ml|>mercutio22: you could try that, but I would just backup and start over
18:21<mercutio22>ml|: you are right... I am sorta tired already
18:22<ml|>just takes time to do it; do it when you are fresh as to not make any mistakes
18:23<mercutio22>ml|: yeah. thanks for all the help man.
18:24-!-mercutio22 [~mercutio2@201-0-40-100.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Quit: leaving]
18:24<ml|>np, fnmueller helped also; and return when done with the outcome?
18:24-!-rudi_s_ [~rudi_s@93.206.88.54] has quit [Quit: leaving]
18:25<ml|>just missed him :/
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18:57<ArxeoLog>you have to download the kernel / vmlinux manually partition / dev/hda9 and pass as an argument root = / dev/hda10
18:57<ArxeoLog>help me please:)
18:57<ArxeoLog>how do it
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19:01<ml|>ArxeoLog: explain what you are trying to do and someone may help you
19:02-!-jtaji [~jtaji@c-174-59-115-229.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #debian
19:05<ArxeoLog><ml|> sorry. I am trying to install debian lenny to powerPC, and during installation not to install the bootloader QUIK, if everything goes well, and in the end he gives this notice
19:06-!-isak [~isak@78-73-89-9-no169.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #debian
19:07<ml|>have you tried #debianppc ?
19:07<ArxeoLog>I do not understand how to implement this warning. refuse to install due to hang during the configuration loader QUIK
19:07<ArxeoLog>yes,there is not anyone there alive
19:08<ArxeoLog>adb tried to help, all they could have tried - did not work, he went to sleep, I'm looking for more options
19:09<ArxeoLog>6th day already trying to cure this problem:)
19:09-!-jesperj [~jesper@c213-89-146-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #debian
19:09<ml|>I don't either, try some searching while you wait for help and ask again if you get no answer
19:10<jesperj>I'm making a "full backup" of my system. I'm thinking of copying /boot /etc /home /initrd /lost+found /opt /root /var /usr/local /usr/src /srv. That should be sufficient or even more than I would need right?
19:11<jesperj>/proc and /dev I should not copy as I have understood it atleast.
19:11<ArxeoLog>well, just that I thought might be users of other platforms have dealt with this problem and how you solved it
19:11<ml|>dpkg: what to backup
19:11<dpkg>A list of some of the things you should back up on your box is: /etc /home /root /usr/local /usr/src /opt /srv. Tailor this list to your own purposes. If you think you don't need /var, make sure you don't forget /var/lib/dpkg /var/lib/apt* /var/lib/mysql /var/spool/mail /var/www /var/cache/debconf ...
19:12-!-seeS [~csmall@2001:44b8:61::43] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:12<jesperj>ml|: Yeah I've seen that before. Thanks. It does say "some of the things you should back up" which makes me think there might be more that should be backedup
19:13<jesperj>hence the dirs not mentioned by dpkg in my suggestion
19:13<ml|>jesperj: I don't backup /proc/ /sys/ /tmp/ /dev/ just the empty directories
19:14<ml|>jesperj: you should look into rsnapshot for backups
19:14<jesperj>I guess /boot /initrd /lost+found are not considered important by dpkg's listing. /lib and /usr/bin etc I understand may not be worth backing up
19:15<jesperj>yeah /proc and /dev I will leave out
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19:16<ml|>dpkg is suggesting general stuff to bakup, but does not hurt to backup more
19:16<dpkg>You are person #1 to send an unparseable request, ml|
19:16<ml|>heh
19:16<jesperj>so my suggested list looks sufficient?
19:16<jesperj>or should I add even more?
19:17<jesperj>I think it's only /tmp left from what you and dpkg listed :)
19:17<ml|>that is up to you, I backup everything else what I mentioned above and a few other dir in ~
19:18<jesperj>ml|: well are there some dirs that you should NOT backup because it is not "safe" somehow? I remember vaguely that /proc and /dev should not be backedup because it could somehow "cause problems". Is this correct?
19:19<jesperj>because if not I can just "cp -R / /backupdir"?
19:19<ml|>they can, they are recreated at boot by udev iirc
19:20<jesperj>ml|: *nods* so it is rather important to know what dirs to exclude because of that reason,that it can cause problems...
19:20<ml|>best not to backup a running system and rsync would be a better choice, but look into rsnapshot
19:20<jesperj>and then I'll just backup the rest :)
19:21<jesperj>ml|: thanks for tip about rsnapshot, but that's just another tool for making the backup right? I need to know what to backup first :)
19:21<ml|>actually that would be fine
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19:21<ml|>doing while running is what rsnapshot does
19:21-!-angelabad [~angel@39.85-87-95.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:22<ml|>jesperj: yes
19:22<ml|>man rsync as rsnapshot use it
19:22<jesperj>ml|: ok. Thanks.
19:22<ml|>it is a learning curve but it's worth it
19:22<ml|>!rsnapshot
19:22<dpkg>rsnapshot is, like, a filesystem snapshot utility, which creates incremental backups of local and remote filesystems, using hard links to save disk space. See also /usr/share/doc/rsnapshot/html/rsnapshot-howto.html and http://www.rsnapshot.org/faq.html, or ask me about <rdiff-backup>.
19:23<jesperj>ml|: and /proc and /dev are the only dirs I should NOT backup to avoid problems?
19:23<ml|> /sys to, well I don't
19:23-!-happydufus [~happydufu@cpc3-hari10-0-0-cust673.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: leaving]
19:23<jesperj>ml|: /sys can cause problems?
19:24<adb>why libiconv is not in debian ? http://www.gnu.org/software/libiconv/
19:24<ml|>not sure but it not needed, I can't say right now why has being a while since I have used rsnapshot this way
19:25<jesperj>ml|: ok thanks for the info.
19:25<ml|>jesperj: also consider what else you cab exclude and what to include
19:25<ml|>*can
19:25<jesperj>ml|: *nods*
19:25<ml|>like /media /mnt /home etc
19:27<ml|>jesperj: np, read the docs in rsnapshot for setup help and man rsync so you understand what's going on
19:27<ml|>rsnapshot.org*
19:28<jesperj>ml|: *nods* I can't see why one would want to backup /media or /mnt?
19:28<jesperj>/home is important
19:29<ml|>you never know others needs
19:30-!-Guest1156 is now known as dcraig
19:30<jesperj>true
19:30<jesperj>ml|: Anyway. Thanks a bunch :) Have a good year.
19:30<ml|>jesperj: /home I mean like certain directories like for example /home/user/tmp <-- for me
19:30<babilen>!what to backup
19:30<dpkg>A list of some of the things you should back up on your box is: /etc /home /root /usr/local /usr/src /opt /srv. Tailor this list to your own purposes. If you think you don't need /var, make sure you don't forget /var/lib/dpkg /var/lib/apt* /var/lib/mysql /var/spool/mail /var/www /var/cache/debconf ...
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19:31<ml|>jesperj: thank you, you too
19:31-!-zsircusr [~Snamus@78-70-195-132-no166.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #debian
19:31<ml|>babilen: read up ;)
19:31<babilen>jesperj: also checkout rdiff-backup (if it wasn't mentioned already)
19:31<babilen>ah ..
19:31*babilen hides
19:31<ml|>heh, it happens ;)
19:31<jesperj>babilen: thanks
19:32<ml|>jesperj: lots of alternatives, unison is another; I just prefer rsnapshot
19:32<zsircusr>hello
19:33<ml|>simple and gets the job done :)
19:33<babilen>ml|: rsnapshot is not a good option if your computer is off during the scheduled rune, because the backups just won't "overflow" (move from daily to weekly ... )
19:33<babilen>s/rune/run
19:34<jesperj>cool
19:34<babilen>ml|: apart from that it is a great too. rdiff-backup is nice too ...
19:34<ml|>babilen: not an issue here; but yes
19:34<babilen>zsircusr: welcome
19:36<ml|>babilen: tho they eventually do, but not ideal
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19:37<babilen>ml|: yeah - the point is that the names 'hourly', 'daily', 'weekly' are just names and you can easily end up with your weeklies being months apart
19:38<ml|>yes, once in a while not being on is fine but not on a regular basis
19:39<ml|>babilen: couldn't anacron solve that? but why even bother since it's off or will be for extended periods of time?
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19:43<EmleyMoor>My system has just started producing a lot more fan noise than normal - just wondering if there is any easy way to find out why...
19:44<Necrocter>try to clean it
19:44<zsircusr>displaced fan?
19:44<ml|>higher temps? maybe time to clean it ouy
19:44-!-ao2 [~u@2001:1418:117::1] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:44<zsircusr>it might be loose too
19:44<babilen>ml|: yes, anacron solves that.
19:45<babilen>EmleyMoor: vaccuum your computer
19:45<EmleyMoor>Reasonably sure it's not loose - and it was all cleaned at a recent rebuild
19:45<babilen>EmleyMoor: just make sure to fix the fans, because they might generate electricity otherwise ...
19:46<zsircusr>does it lower the noise if you hit you chassis?
19:46<ml|>fan going bad maybe?
19:46<EmleyMoor>It's happened suddenly, as in "in the last few minutes"
19:46<jesperj>Maybe the fan is dying? It will fail sooner or later...
19:46<EmleyMoor>No change
19:46<babilen>ml|: it just wasn't the perfect backup solution for my laptop+external hdd. I was missing too many runs ... settled for rdiff-backup.
19:46<ml|>yeah, vibration can cause noise too
19:46<EmleyMoor>Any action I take may be inconclusive anyway
19:47<EmleyMoor>Most of this noise is airflow
19:47<babilen>EmleyMoor: clean your computer. It will run much cooler afterwards ...
19:48<EmleyMoor>It seems to be decelerating now
19:48<ml|>babilen: ok, good to know, being using rsnapshot for a while; some tools are better depending on the situation and whats needed
19:48-!-jose_ [~jose@82.198.46.186.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #debian
19:49<jose_>hola a todos
19:49<ml|>!es
19:49<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
19:49<babilen>EmleyMoor: Just get your vaccuum cleaner, grab the fans and ... (I am serious)
19:49<ml|>EmleyMoor: I would do what babilen suggests can't hurt
19:50<EmleyMoor>I will - but probably only the next time I'm in the case any way
19:50<jesperj>well.... vaccuum cleaner can fry electronic parts, but it rarely happens.
19:51<ml|>EmleyMoor: if it starts again then you have a problem you need to look into
19:51<jesperj>I wouldnt use one INSIDE a computer myself.
19:51<EmleyMoor>Indeed - if it does it again it will be investigated, no matter what
19:51<babilen>jesperj: you have to keep the fans from spinning ...
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19:51<ml|>jesperj: if you are careful it's fine
19:52<jesperj>babilen: and have the power off :P
19:52<ml|>use a grounding strap if you feel it's needed
19:52<jesperj>ml|: yeah but that room for disaster if one doesn't do it properly is what makes me resistant to recommending it to people
19:52<jesperj>even though most of the times it will be fine
19:53<jesperj>but it can damage parts if you are doing it wrong as I have understood it.
19:53<babilen>jesperj: No shit sherlock! But seriously, i saw average temps to drop ~20K after that
19:53<ml|>or touch the powersupply after it's off will do the samething
19:53-!-Celtiore [~Celtiore@ANice-257-1-56-218.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian
19:54<ml|>jesperj: that applies not most everything ;)
19:54<jesperj>babilen: nice
19:54<jesperj>ml|: true
19:54<ml|>oops s/not/to/
19:54<babilen>(it was an old computer :-)
19:55<jesperj>babilen: == lots of time to collect dust
19:55<ml|>I try to clean mine once a year or so, or before if I notice fans working harder etc...
19:56<ml|>dust is a b1tch ;)
19:56<jesperj>computers can have a lot of filth in them. yuck. Though I use air duster on mine every few months
19:56<jesperj>yes death to dust
19:57-!-callMeTom [~none@cpe-67-253-155-166.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
19:57<ml|>I prefer with a vac or by hand as air cans just move it all in the air
19:58<jesperj>and I would never have a computer on the floor like I did when I got my first. that is just mean to your computer imo.
19:58-!-zsircusr [~Snamus@78-70-195-132-no166.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:58<jesperj>ml|: it does but it also gets a lot of dust out of places that is hard to get to.
19:58<callMeTom>anyone have any idea how or if I can scroll up on the command line. I
19:59<jesperj>and places where vacuuming is riscy
19:59<callMeTom>I'm having an issue with single user mode
19:59<callMeTom>and need to see the output that flies by me
19:59<jesperj>shift + pgup
19:59<ml|>jesperj: yes, but I take my time and get most of it that way
19:59<callMeTom>excelent, thanks
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20:00<ml|>callMeTom: you can also use a pager like less for most things
20:00<jesperj>or for example if something generates a lot of output, pipe it to "less" or "more"
20:00<jesperj>like "cat bigfile | less"
20:00<jesperj>for example
20:00<ml|>or just less bigfile
20:00-!-ArxeoLog [DRUoleG@95.141.228.89.chebnet.ru] has quit []
20:01<callMeTom>it's when trying to telinit 1
20:01<callMeTom>so can't really pipe output to more or less
20:02<ml|>to a file?
20:03<babilen>jesperj: try the 'most' pager ;-)
20:03<callMeTom>for some reason today my computer started giving an error when 'shutdown' command issued. It won't shut down, just tries to enter single user mode, and errors out asks me for root password or for control-D to continue
20:03<callMeTom>have to telinit 0 to power off the machine and I know enough to avoid that
20:03<jesperj>babilen: :) yeah why settle for anything but the biggest most badass tool?
20:03-!-pac1 [~pac1@pool-71-184-209-148.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #debian
20:04<jesperj>'best'
20:04<jesperj>the tool for everything
20:04-!-famelix [~famelix@187.40.35.237] has joined #debian
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20:04<ml|>vimpager :)
20:04<pac1>I have a package installed from debian lenny e2fsprogs 1.41.3.1. I'd like to install a later version. how could I set up software sources to to that?
20:05<cadux>hi peoples...
20:05<ml|>callMeTom: need to fsck ?
20:05<jesperj>callMeTom: maybe you should run fsck just to be sure?
20:05<callMeTom>The install is now officially 2 days old, but I'll fsck just to be sure
20:06<jesperj>hi cadux
20:06<ml|>could be hardware related
20:06<callMeTom>is it normal that debian will enter single user mode when told to shutdown after killing all processes?
20:06<callMeTom>Was running Ubuntu server for 1 1/2 years without issues, but I'll also run memtest and a HDD test
20:07<cadux>do you speak spanish jerperj?...
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20:08<ml|>I don't think it's normal, something might have happened to have that happen
20:09<ml|>dpkg: tell cadux about es
20:09<callMeTom>probably something wrong with one of the rc scripts
20:10<jesperj>cadux: no sorry
20:10<callMeTom>or some script in the rc0.d directory
20:10<callMeTom>maybe
20:10<ml|>callMeTom: has happened only once?
20:10<jesperj>callMeTom: I don't know actually...
20:10<callMeTom>everytime I issue the shutodwn command
20:10<cadux>all right...
20:10<babilen>callMeTom: your system keeps booting into rl 1 without any indication of an error before doing so?
20:11<ml|>but starting today?
20:11<callMeTom>the only way I can make the machine power off is to do telinit0, shutdown -h seems to restart into single user mode
20:11<callMeTom>starting last night
20:11<ml|>maybe something you did?
20:11<callMeTom>probably
20:11<babilen>callMeTom: no error messages at all?
20:11<ml|>try to backtrack
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20:12<pac1>pac1, deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ testing main contrib non-free
20:12<pac1>pac1, rtfm.
20:12<callMeTom>it's only 2 days old, so I may just re-install, but I just got ssh keys all set for no password logins and vsftp configured, and was just getting apache set up
20:12<pac1>;-)
20:12<babilen>!tell pac1 -about sources.list
20:12<ml|>pac1: don't mix realses
20:12-!-machina [~nanley@adsl-160-70-52.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
20:12<ml|>releases*
20:12<jesperj>btw re: memtest. is there any difference to talk about between Memtest86 and Memtest86+?
20:13<callMeTom>86+ was a fork
20:13<callMeTom>and is green in the upper left corner where 86 is red
20:13<pac1>ml| yeah.
20:13<pac1>just one package.
20:13<pac1>otherwise its build from sources.
20:13<babilen>pac1: which package?
20:13<ml|>in general memtest86+ adds new stuff
20:13<pac1>e2fsprogs
20:13-!-eu [~eu@201009028205.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Quit: Saindo]
20:13<callMeTom>I tend to use + for the sam reason jesperj uses most pager :-)... plus must be better
20:13<babilen>judd: versions e2fsprogs
20:13<judd>babilen: e2fsprogs -- etch: 1.39+1.40-WIP-2006.11.14+dfsg-2etch1 etch-security: 1.39+1.40-WIP-2006.11.14+dfsg-2etch1 lenny: 1.41.3-1 sid: 1.41.9-1 squeeze: 1.41.9-1
20:14<babilen>ah, no backports ..
20:14<ml|>pac1: even for one package
20:14<jesperj>callMeTom: lol
20:14<ml|>try to backport it yourself
20:14<pac1>ml| dependencies...!
20:14<pac1>right
20:14<babilen>pac1: but still - you shouldn't mix stable and testing/unstable
20:14<callMeTom>ml|: I had an error, but when I shift+pgup (as I just learned) it was cron not stopping
20:14<babilen>!tell pac -about ssb
20:15<ml|>pac1: ok, do what you want good luck
20:15<jesperj>well the argument of one color or another is just silly. I mean of course if they differ in accuracy or functionality
20:15<pac1>ml|, following sage advice.
20:15<jesperj>I dont remember which one I ran some years ago last time I needed to memtest some ram
20:15<pac1>download new sources build on stable.
20:16-!-dante_2core [~dante@80-219-138-134.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: afk]
20:16<gdb>pac1: What is the problem you're trying to solve? Meaning, something gave you the idea that instaling a new version of e2fsprogs would help you in some what. What is the issue that prompted that? (ie; While we can't recommend upgrading e2fsprogs, we may be able to help you with the underlying issue).
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20:17<pac1>on booting e2fsck fails on a perfectly good filesystem.
20:17<pac1>system is on an lvm volume (shouldn't matter)
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20:17<callMeTom>pac1: how to you know the file system is good if it fails?
20:17-!-kombucha [~mars@user-12ld9rh.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: kombucha]
20:17<gdb>I'd suggest that if fsck is failing on a perfectly good filesystem, then the filesystem isn't perfectly good. Have you run fsck using a rescue CD?
20:17<pac1>booted to another os and did e2fsck and it ran.
20:18<pac1>no error.
20:18<babilen>pac1: problem solved?
20:18<pac1>no. booted back to debian, and it tried again. failed again.
20:18<pac1>wait pasting elsewhere
20:18<jesperj>callMeTom: and, dont take this wrong but, you are sure that you dont do "shutdown -r now" but rather "shutdown -h now"?
20:19<callMeTom>jerperj: no offence taken, shutdown -r works properly, which is what confuses me
20:20<callMeTom>infact, before I figured out that I was at runlevel1 and was wondering why I had no networking, I had have shutdown -r ed many times to get networking back
20:20<ml|>callMeTom: whats the cron job?
20:20<jesperj>damnit guys.
20:21<callMeTom>it just fails stopping the cron service as it shuts down services when shutting down
20:21<jesperj>you GOT to be in here all high.
20:21<callMeTom>wha?!!
20:21<ml|>jesperj: what?
20:21<gdb>eh?
20:21<jesperj>Im sitting here eating candy and the letters are starting to float around.
20:21<babilen>hu
20:21-!-mag3lla [~mag3lla@84-218-21-38.eurobelladsl.telenor.se] has joined #debian
20:21<ml|>hu?
20:21<babilen>jesperj: take a break ... and less LSD
20:22<ml|>haha
20:22-!-mag3lla is now known as magellanino
20:22<callMeTom>so we're high because you're freaking out?
20:22<callMeTom>must be
20:22<pac1>babilen, no looking for evidence in /var/log. not finding any. when e2fsck failed, it fell back to a failsafe session. I'm wondering where that log would be.
20:23<jesperj>it makes it more difficult to give good advice or follow the conversation, but when the effecte when all letters starts floating around, it does look pretty cool
20:23<ml|>pac1: your system runs fine otherwise?
20:23<babilen>pac1: you can get some boot logs with bootlogd
20:23<ml|>need to enable that
20:23<callMeTom>pac1: have you checked your BIOS to see what mode your SATA controller is in. I've seen cases where switching from RAID mode (Assuming single disk here) to IDE or ATAPI would force the OS to use a different driver and solve all kinds of strange disk issues
20:24<ml|>dpkg: bootlogd
20:24<dpkg>hmm... bootlogd is disabled by default. Change /etc/default/bootlogd to "Yes" to populate /var/log/boot . For the reason behind the default, see http://bugs.debian.org/213028 (fixed since sysvinit 2.86.ds1-11). Not a command (as opposed to dmesg).
20:24<babilen>pac1: I can only suggest to boot a live CD (grml for example) run intensive fs checks from there and then try again.
20:24<pac1>good idea.
20:24<ml|>grml is tha boomb ;)
20:24<babilen>yeah
20:25<ml|>need to burn the new version
20:25<pac1>multiple disks for an lvm volume
20:26<marh>i copyed in an old .ssh/config and chmod 600 it, but ssh behaves as it wasn't there.. any ideas what could be wrong?
20:26<callMeTom>OK, found work around
20:26<callMeTom>used alias to make shutdown -h alias to poweroff (I suppose I could just use poweroff) and that shuts the system down
20:27<ml|>callMeTom: better to find the cause of the issue no?
20:27<babilen>marh: what happens if you specify it explicitly with '-F CONFFILE' ?
20:28<pac1>ok read warning on bootlogd - making note to shut it off later.
20:28-!-marcel [~marcel@190.205.211.220] has joined #debian
20:28<marh>babilen: the same
20:28<marcel>hello
20:28<ml|>pac1: yes
20:28-!-SiCuTDeUx_ [~sicutdeux@190.203.248.243] has joined #debian
20:29<marcel>alguien habla español
20:29<ml|>!es
20:29<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
20:29<callMeTom>ml|: you're probaby right. Tomorrrow I'll end up re-installing the system. I would like this to be a learngin experiance, but it just seems like I'd spend more time figuring out what is going on than it would take to reinstall the OS.
20:29<marcel>thanks
20:30<jesperj>goodnight guys
20:30<jesperj>be well
20:30<babilen>marh: check with strace if it is reading that file. It might be that the options in there just don't have the desired effect ..
20:30<ml|>callMeTom: sometimes it's best to start over if you are stuck and/or don't know what the cause is and can't figure it out
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20:30<babilen>jesperj: goog night
20:30<babilen>*good
20:30<ml|>jesperj: good night
20:30-!-pac1 [~pac1@pool-71-184-209-148.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:31<jesperj>\o/
20:31<callMeTom>ml|: Like I said, it's 2 days old, better to cut my losses and start over, this time I'll pay attention to what I'm doing, and maybe not run around as root the whole time
20:31<callMeTom>mabye
20:31-!-Guest1162 is now known as dcraig
20:31<jesperj>now *dives into bed*
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20:31<callMeTom>g'night all, and thanks for the help
20:31-!-callMeTom [~none@cpe-67-253-155-166.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit []
20:31<babilen>callMeTom: that might be a good idea ;-)
20:31<ml|>night
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20:31<babilen>GMT+N fte :-D
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20:32<babilen>*ftw :-(
20:32<ml|>"running as root all the time" ;)
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20:33-!-maxxe [~maxxe@81-233-180-243-no86.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #debian
20:33<maxxe>lenny->squeeze
20:34<maxxe>!squeeze
20:34<dpkg>Squeeze is the codename for the next release, Debian GNU/Linux 6.0. It is the three-eyed space alien. http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2008/09/msg00000.html Ask me about <testing>. Not to be confused with the <Xfce> archive manager. http://wiki.debian.org/DebianSqueeze. See also <squeeze kernel>.
20:34-!-mercutio22 [~mercutio2@201-0-40-100.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #debian
20:34<babilen>!tell maxxe -about selftell
20:34-!-Yerzriknot [~austin@adsl-99-58-237-124.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #debian
20:34<mercutio22>hey ml|
20:35<Yerzriknot>OK, I need some help. I've been googling how to install nvidia drivers and there's hundreds of articles.
20:35<Yerzriknot>Does anyone know the easiest way to install them?
20:35<rex>babilen: where can i find the deb irc manual?
20:35<pac1>Is this a bug:? I installed transmission-common and transmission-gtk 1.22-1+lenny1. Now I want to remove it. In synaptic, select remove on transmission common and it marks gnome and transmission-gtk for removal. If i click remove on just transmission-gtk, it selects just gnome for removal.
20:35<ml|>!nvidia
20:35<dpkg>To use an NVIDIA graphics card with Debian, see http://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers. If you've done it before, asking me about <nvidia pre-built> or <nvidia m-a> might work. Testing users: ask me about <nvidia squeeze>. Installing directly from nvidia.com (i.e. with <nvidia-installer>) is _not_ supported in #debian, please go to #nvidia (irc.freenode.net).
20:35<babilen>Yerzriknot: you've come to the right place
20:35<ml|>mercutio22: wb
20:35*babilen recommends pre-built or m-a
20:35<mercutio22>I solved it without a reinstall
20:35<Yerzriknot>K, how do you do that?
20:36<ml|>the wiki is easy to follow I think for nvidia
20:36-!-SiCuTDeUx__ [~sicutdeux@190.203.248.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:36<babilen>!tell Yerzriknot -about nvidia pre-built
20:36<ml|>!congratulate mercutio22
20:36<dpkg>Nice one mercutio22, you did it!
20:36<babilen>!tell Yerzriknot -about nvidia m-a
20:36<babilen>Yerzriknot: and read the wiki page
20:36<ml|>mercutio22: how?
20:36-!-maxxe [~maxxe@81-233-180-243-no86.tbcn.telia.com] has quit []
20:37<Yerzriknot>Is nvidia m-a in the repos?
20:37<ml|>read what dpkg told you
20:37<ml|>Yerzriknot: ^
20:37<babilen>rex: I am not aware of any Debian specific IRC manual. What do you want to know?
20:38<ml|>dpkg: tell rex about irc
20:38<ml|>that might help
20:38<mercutio22>ml|: I found a post on the ubuntu forums where a guy had the same issue as me. He resized the partition with gparted *after* dd and df suddenly started reporting disk usage properly
20:38<ml|>dpkg: tell rex about irc tutorial
20:39<mercutio22>ml|: so I shrinked and regrew my partion back to its size and the 224 gb used appears now as 40 gb
20:39<ml|>mercutio22: so you had to redo it, that is all?
20:40<ml|>and did you use gparted from the start? I forgot
20:40<Yerzriknot>I typed apt-get install module-assistant nvidia-kernel-common and got "Couldn't find package nvidia-kernal -common
20:41-!-Netsplit over, joins: niekie
20:41<mercutio22>ml|: you see, I didn't redo it. I just made an unecessary operation on the partition with parted so wherever the wrong disk usage info that was copied with dd from the old partion got erased
20:42<mercutio22>ml|: that was confusing
20:42<babilen>Yerzriknot: have you tried the pre-built method?
20:42<Yerzriknot>No
20:42<babilen>Yerzriknot: and it would be 'm-a a-i nvidia'
20:43-!-icebrain [~icebrain@co3-84-90-130-39.netvisao.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:43<babilen>Yerzriknot: ah ...
20:43<ml|>Yerzriknot: do you have contrib in your sources.list?
20:43<mercutio22>ml|: I mean.. dd copied deprecated file system usage (wherever that is kept at). gparted erased that and wrote proper info I guess
20:43-!-Texou [~Texou@pat35-5-78-226-56-130.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: ++]
20:43*babilen goes to bed
20:43<Yerzriknot>Dunno
20:43<Yerzriknot>How do you find out?
20:43<ml|>babilen: good night ;)
20:43<pac1>When reporting bugs against a package, for example transmission-common, should the bug report be filed under the package name, or in some other way. The problem relates to how the package behaves when trying to remove it, not to the functuionality of the package itself. How to proceed. (started reportbug as novice this time around.
20:43<Yerzriknot>Sorry, I was an Ubuntu user
20:43<babilen>Yerzriknot: look at it? or 'apt-cache policy'
20:44<ml|>mercutio22: great that it's working :)
20:44<babilen>pac1: file it against the package
20:44<Yerzriknot>Looks like I don't
20:44<babilen>!contrib
20:44<dpkg>rumour has it, contrib is Debian packages that are free, but depend on software not in Debian (possibly in contrib or non-free). To get contrib packages, add lines like "deb http://yourmirror/debian/ [etch|lenny|squeeze|sid] main contrib" to your /etc/apt/sources.list. Also ask me about <non-free>.
20:44<pac1>Yerzriknot. You and I have both recently graduated...
20:44<ml|>Yerzriknot: can also pastebin you sources.list
20:45<babilen>Yerzriknot: you *might* want to add non-free while you are at it
20:45<mercutio22>ml|: yeah, cool! And without having to reinstall.
20:45<ml|>yup I would add non-free, but read first
20:45-!-icebrain [~icebrain@co3-84-90-130-39.netvisao.pt] has joined #debian
20:45<ml|>dpkg: tell Yerzriknot about non-free
20:47<ml|>mercutio22: since I don't know much about dd, I can say either that is what happened; but great regardless :)
20:48<ml|>pac1: use reportbug
20:48<ml|>dpkg: tell pac1 about reportbug
20:48<mercutio22>ml|: I am posting on the forum in case anyone else runs into this problem, but I guess I can't report this as a bug since it was my fault I used dd to copy a partition into another of greater size
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20:49<ml|>mercutio22: right no bug, but that's good to place it on the forums :)
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20:51<mercutio22>ml|: thanks to you and everyone else that helped for spending the time on my problem. I learned a lot today.
20:51<ml|>mercutio22: not the other way around big to small partition?
20:52<mercutio22>ml|: no.. the template partition was smaller then the target one.
20:52<ml|>hmm, I thought dd was fine with that
20:53<ml|>and big to small was an issue
20:53<ml|>anyways np
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20:57<rex>ml|: thanks
20:57<ml|>rex: np, that helped?
20:58<rex>ye
20:58<ml|>good, now you understand irc better :)
20:58<rex>:||
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21:01<ml|>rex: btw what does :|| mean? big lips? ;)
21:02<nixeagle>Hi I have amd64 running, but I'd like to install cmucl, which only has a package for 64bit. I installed ia32-libs, but I'm not positive what I need to do to get the 32bit package. (I'd like to avoid a 32bit chroot if I can)
21:03<nixeagle>err, only has a package for 32bit, what am I saying ^-^.
21:03<ml|>nixeagle: you mean cmucl is 32bit
21:03<ml|>ah
21:06<adb>judd, versions cmucl
21:06<judd>adb: cmucl -- etch: 19d-20061116-1 lenny: 19d-20061116-4.1 sid: 20a-20090928-2 squeeze: 20a-20090928-2
21:06<ml|>adb: hello
21:06<adb>again ?
21:06<ml|>again?
21:07<ml|>adb: nvm no more hello's for you ;)
21:07<nixeagle>would it be sane to add the 32bit repositories (source only?) to my sources.lst or would that mess up aptitude.
21:08<adb>ml|, last week we said hello , if i remember ...
21:08<ml|>nixeagle: I would help, but I don't use 64bit
21:08<nixeagle>ml|: no worries, I don't expect _you_ to ;)
21:08<ml|>adb: that was a week ago but ok ;P
21:09<pac1>Does the kernel in lenny support lvm?
21:09<pac1>/usr/src/linux/.config has no line containing LVM. odd.
21:10<ml|>it should, check /boot/config-uname-r
21:11<pac1>No such file or directory
21:11<pac1>initrd.img-2.6.26-2-686 is in boot
21:11<ml|>uname -r would be the kernel you are using
21:12<ml|>for me /boot/config-2.6.31-1-686
21:12<pac1>thought that uname looked familiar
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21:13<pac1>2.6.26-2-686
21:13<ml|>right so check the config for it in /boot/
21:14<ml|>dpkg: tell pac1 about lvm
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21:14<pac1>pat knows about lvm.
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21:15<pac1>grep LVM /boot/config* yields nothing
21:15<pac1>maybe its called something else
21:16<ml|>I don't use lvm why dpkg told you those links might help
21:16<pac1>dpkg said nothing.
21:16<dpkg>wish i knew, pac1
21:17<eightyeight>i'm having troubles with /etc/init.d/console-screen.sh when trying to use dpkg. says it has an issue with setup. i've triet commenting it out, but then it won't start. anyone know what to do?
21:17-!-mode/#debian [+l 362] by debhelper
21:17<pac1>dpkg tell pac1 about lvm
21:17<ml|>yes he did, look at a window or a tab named dpkg
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21:17<pac1>way up top.
21:18<ml|>depends where on the irc client and setup
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21:18<pac1>mine is xchat set up in a long tall window.
21:18<ml|>dpkg: tell pac1 about selftell
21:19<pac1>ml| thanks
21:19<ml|>I use irssi
21:19<ml|>np
21:20-!-danbar [~danbar@dsl-emcali-190.99.152.7.emcali.net.co] has joined #debian
21:21<ml|>in my kernel greping LVM comes up with nothing so it must be something else
21:21-!-dvs [~dvs@cwv.teksavvy.com] has joined #debian
21:21<ml|>but like I said I don't know lvm
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21:21<danbar>exit
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21:27<fgh>jugend?
21:28<adb>!install using lvm
21:28<dpkg>i guess install using lvm is at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/FAQ ("How do I install using LVM? Is there any more information about using the LVM installer? LVM installation doesn't work!"). Also ask me about <lvm> and <i-g>.
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21:34<pac1>dpkg: tell adb about selftell
21:34<ml|>pac1: it's fine when using ! or dpkg to tell the channel
21:35<ml|>but not yoursefl
21:35<pac1>aha!
21:35<ml|>yourself
21:35<pac1>got it.
21:35<ml|>:)
21:35<sney`>!win ml|
21:35<dpkg>Congratulations, ml|! You have won the US presidency!
21:35<ml|>sney`: ah, thanks
21:35<sney`>oh no, open source healthcare
21:36<ml|>haha
21:36<pac1>My problem with lvm is solved, at least temporarily. I simply et fstab to not do the fsck.
21:36<pac1>s/et/set/
21:37<ml|>fsck should only happen every few boots or when there are issues, are you sure that is wise to do?
21:38<ml|>oh, just temporarily?
21:38-!-vev [~vev@77.49.35.213.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #debian
21:38<kop>sney`: Wierdly enough, there is a FOSS medical package, brought to you by the U.S. government department of veterans affairs. Guess what? It's named "vista". Really.
21:39<sney`>oh yes I know
21:39<sney`>I used to work for the VA
21:39<ml|>wow really
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21:39<sney`>it runs on VMS
21:39<sney`>well
21:39<sney`>"runs"
21:40<kop>pac1: It wouldn't be that you've problems with fsck because your swap's on LVM, would it?
21:40<sney`>there was a brief moment when the USVAMC tried to get Microsoft to change the name of their new OS because of the overlap
21:40<sney`>but it was probably thrown out because VistA is only an internal thing
21:40<kop>sney`: Nah. It's downloadable, or so I hear.
21:41<sney`>there's a downloadable client but it's really just a terminal client with extra features
21:41<sney`>all it does is hook into a big DB on VAX/VMS
21:41<kop>sney`: In mumps?
21:42<sney`>maybe. I didn't have much direct experience with the mainframes themselves, just stuff on the windows and "oh hey we need this VT320 replaced" end
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22:00<aef>hi, i run a debian server without an xserver and want to run applications which have a gui without having to run a full xserver. is there an easy way to do such a thing? i don't neccessarily need to be able to see or interact with the gui.
22:01<abrotman>!tell aef about sshx
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22:01<aef>abrotman: it should run while i'm not connected too
22:01<abrotman>then maybe you want to run a vncserver ?
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22:03<aef>abrotman: something really lightweight would be nice, i don't know how resource intensive that would be
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22:11<icebrain>what about Xvfb?
22:11<icebrain>!xvfb
22:12<icebrain>meh. from wiki: "In the X Window System, Xvfb or X virtual framebuffer is an X11 server that performs all graphical operations in memory, not showing any screen output. "
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23:37<angelo>Holaaa
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23:42<Albi>hello world
23:42<Albi>nobody home?
23:43<rex>just ask your question and someone will get back with you
23:44<Albi>ah ok ;) it's not so much of a question as more of a i'm confused beyond nothing else
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23:45<Albi>is there a way to "run gnu" without using the linux kernal, as in just "installing gnu" (i'm thinking (probably incorrecttly) that gnu is "like" dos)
23:46<kop>Albi: You need to visit wikipedia. You can look up things like gnu and linux.
23:47<ml|>!gnu
23:47<dpkg>[gnu] a recursive acronym which stands for GNU's Not UNIX. The GNU project is dedicated to the creation of a 100% Free Software Operating System, its homepage is at http://gnu.org
23:48<Albi>kop i have, ive been staring at wiki and sites from kernals to window managers and everything in between, for the past week, i've been running ubuntu for a a few years now, i just dont understand as much as i would like to
23:49<ml|>the gnu site should help you
23:49<Albi>is gnu an operating system, or does it only operate when coupled with a kernal (linux)
23:49<kop>Albi: There's a slew of software. Some of it needs other pieces. Distro's mix and match and make sure that the pieces work together. You can (and do) run lots of gnu software when using other kernels. (E.g. Debian now has a freebsd kernel option.)
23:50<kop>Albi: Yes, read the gnu site.
23:50<kop>Albi: Note that sofware comes from everwhere, not just gnu.
23:51<ml|>but gnu software is 100% free, unlike others
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23:51<Albi>ok, i guess what i'm trying to find is, a download for gnu/linux that is just command line and the main base "stuff"
23:52<kop>ml|: Others are 100% free too. Some are copyleft, and some of that is gnu project software.
23:52<ml|>kop: yes I worded that wrongly
23:53<Albi>such as gnewsence
23:53<kop>Albi: Do a debian install and choose just the base system. There's also linux from scratch and other small distros but we like debian. :-)
23:53<Albi>(is entirley free)
23:53<ml|>is you want use lsb
23:53<Albi>yeah i like debian, ive been trying to work through linux for scratch
23:54<kop>Albi: Everyone has their own idea of what's "free". E.g. Debian and gnu don't agree and niether is a subset of the other.
23:54<Albi>is there gnu/linux base system which has no distro, so which isn't debian, but isn't anything else either
23:54<ml|>oops lfs*
23:54<Albi>kop: true, i like debians version of free more than i do gnus
23:54<kop>Albi: If it's got more than one piece of software, it's a distro.
23:55<kop>Albi: They are very close.
23:55<Albi>what if its just the base system of gnu
23:55<kop>Albi: But all of this is off-topic, which is supporting debian.
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23:56<ml|>Albi: what is your goal, 100% free system?
23:56<Albi>kop: ahh true, i opened the gnu irc and got nothing from them, and i was just needing some help sorry
23:58<Albi>ml|: just getting down to the core of everything to understand gnu/linux, i grew up with dos, and windows 3.1, so i think thats given me a good understanding of M$ systems, im hoping to do the same with gnu
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23:59<kop>Albi: Then you probably want to do the same with FLOSS, which is more of the whole ecosystem. Debian is very good for that, and I find the openbsd documentation the best.
23:59<ml|>well you need to read gnu.org then
23:59<kop>Albi: You will also want to read rfcs for the major protocols so you understand what standards really are.
---Logclosed Fri Jan 08 00:00:03 2010