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#debian IRC Logs for 2010-01-10

---Logopened Sun Jan 10 00:00:24 2010
---Daychanged Sun Jan 10 2010
00:00<ml|>kf_: if you don't and would like to add backports to your sources.list /msg dpkg bpo and follow the instructions
00:00-!-brendan_ [~brendan@ResNet-32-145.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #debian
00:01-!-shijir69 [~shijir69@124.158.87.19] has joined #debian
00:01<shijir69>hi guys
00:01<shijir69>is it luukland server?
00:01<kf_>thank you i will try it to a wired network.a moment!thank you very much
00:02<ml|>shijir69: huh? luukland server?
00:02<shijir69>yes
00:03<shijir69>is it transport tycoon chat?
00:03<ml|>you are in #debian in oftc
00:03<shijir69>oftc?
00:04<ml|>dpkg: oftc
00:04<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, oftc is the Open and Free Technology Community, a support/collaboration service. They have an IRC network: irc.oftc.net. You may be connected to OFTC's network. http://www.oftc.net/ See also <freenode>, <oftc move> and <fact sharing>.
00:04-!-shijir69 [~shijir69@124.158.87.19] has left #debian []
00:06-!-brendan__ [~brendan@ResNet-32-145.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:07-!-iron [~tobias@p4FD2F9BE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
00:09-!-edbian [~ed@c-98-228-251-58.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #debian
00:09<edbian>Looking for some feedback on my website running on my debian server http://ednovak.net
00:10-!-shijir69 [~shijir69@124.158.87.19] has joined #debian
00:10<shijir69>which server is better for play?
00:11<ml|>shijir69: don't know, but not here
00:12-!-sutula [sutula@free.linux.hp.com] has joined #debian
00:12<shijir69>what's mean debian
00:13<ml|>dpkg: tell shijir69 about debian
00:15<shijir69>it is like ubuntu?
00:15<shijir69>free?
00:15-!-etzerd [~etzerd@pool-74-101-129-104.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #debian
00:15<edbian>shijir69, It is more free than Ubuntu
00:15<etzerd>hello all
00:15-!-XayOn [~xayon@212.97.191.130.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:15<etzerd>what is the last version of debian?
00:16<edbian>Lenny
00:16-!-nteon [~bobby@c-67-180-90-33.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #debian
00:16<edbian>etzerd, Lenny is stable, squeeze I think is the testing release right now. In order to get squeeze you download and install stable (lenny) and change the repos
00:17-!-machina [~nanley@lawn-128-61-30-98.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #debian
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00:18<ml|>edbian: not bad; on your how to might be better to add boxes or something similar to hilight the code, like code box in debian forums for example and instead of using sudo use # to denote it needs to be run as root as sudo is not installed by default
00:18<etzerd>edbian: I'm a rookie whent it come to debian. How easy is the installation?
00:19<ml|>edbian: also $ to denote as regular user IMHO
00:19<edbian>etzerd, It is insanely easy if you're installing on a blank hard drive
00:19<edbian>ml|, Thank you! :D You're comments are greatly appreciated
00:19<edbian>ml|, That
00:20<edbian>ml|, I don't feel comfortable accepting money. Maybe one day I'll add that. Thanks again for the input
00:20<ml|>edbian: np, but read that again ;)
00:20<etzerd>edbian: I have 2 partition on my hard drive. Windows 7 and Ubuntu. whould I remove Ubuntu and Install debian or I can install them side by side?
00:21<edbian>ml|, Oh, thanks :P
00:21<edbian>etzerd, If there is enough room you can install them side by side.
00:22<ml|>edbian: hehe
00:22<edbian>etzerd, If you have 0 personal files both ubuntu and debian will need at least 5GB.
00:22<etzerd>I have a 320 Gig HD
00:23<edbian>etzerd, Also, debian is older than ubuntu and it uses the older version of grub which will not recognize ext4 partitions (or boot them)
00:23-!-kf__ [~kf@222.131.8.136] has joined #debian
00:23<kf__>i have update it 0.17
00:23<edbian>etzerd, If I had a 320 Gb HDD I could probably fit a dozen operating systems. It depends how much of that is filled with personal files
00:23<kf__>then what should i do?
00:23<ml|>etzerd: this should help http://wiki.debian.org/LennyIllustratedInstall
00:24-!-Guest1493 is now known as dcraig
00:24<edbian>etzerd, I'm not sure how debian handles windows 7. I don't forsee a major problem though
00:24<ml|>dpkg: tell etzerd about debian reference
00:24-!-dcraig is now known as Guest1497
00:25<ml|>dpkg: tell etzerd about install
00:25<ml|>etzerd: those should help you, read the messages dpkg sent you
00:25-!-cor_r [~cor@p54BED2DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian
00:25<etzerd>thanks
00:25<edbian>etzerd, Anytime
00:25<gsimmons>kf__: "modprobe -r iwlagn ; modprobe iwlagn" and start using the interface. See http://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse for details.
00:25<etzerd>I think I will wait for the new version of debian.
00:27<edbian>etzerd, That might take 2 or 3 years ;)
00:27<etzerd>good night all. it is now 12:30AM in the west. I'm going to bed
00:27<edbian>etzerd, The current version is only about a year old
00:27<etzerd>is debian have a new version every 6 months like the others?
00:28-!-kf__ [~kf@222.131.8.136] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:28<ml|>no
00:28<edbian>etzerd, Not all of them do that
00:28-!-jcwu [~jcwu@114-137-65-171.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:28<ml|>etzerd: debian is released when it's ready
00:28<edbian>etzerd, Part of the reason I switched from ubuntu to debian was because of that 6 month business. After only 12 months I got annoyed
00:29-!-Colossus [~dragomir@187.64.64.96] has joined #debian
00:29*ml| hopes this will still be the case
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00:29<jrabbit>If stable is too slow for you try unstable or testing
00:30<cor_r>etzerd, yeah go for sid ;) its pretty nice
00:30-!-ubic [~ubic@c-24-127-110-39.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #debian
00:30<etzerd>sid
00:30<jrabbit>(I can't attest to unstable really but I've heard its acceptable for desktop use from folks)
00:30<etzerd>cor_r: whtat is sid? never heard of
00:30<ml|>don't recommend sid it's not supported here and for a new person to debian
00:31<pipe>no, if you're new to debian, try stable
00:31<cor_r>for switiching from win to linux over ubuntu is ok, but after a while you should just abandon buntkuh
00:31<cor_r>etzerd , unstable of debian
00:31<pipe>but I've used testing for a long time, haven't had any serious problems
00:32<pipe>cor_r: I run ubuntu when I'm lazy :)
00:32<etzerd>ok
00:32<etzerd>good night everyone
00:32<etzerd>brb tomorrow
00:32<ml|>etzerd: you want lenny/stable
00:33<cor_r>pipe, yeah sometimes I like point and click adventures as well, but it is always the action shooter stapeling me to my seat
00:33<pipe>Had to install ubuntu server on a machine yesterday too, since neither debian stable nor testing worked on the platform
00:34<pipe>and no one has cared about the bug report since september so I doubt it'll get fixed :P
00:34<ml|>pipe: how come?
00:34<cor_r>you could have used fedora or even freebsd...but ubuntu? :(
00:34<pipe>via epia-ex platform
00:34-!-scrp3l [~scrp3l@201.250.189.175] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
00:34<pipe>Had to install ubuntu 8.10 then dist-upgrade to 9.04 and 9.10 for it to work
00:34<pipe>It might have worked by installing like, etch
00:35<pipe>and then doing the same, but I didn't have a cd with etch around
00:35<ml|>download ;)
00:36<pipe>yeah but after having tested with four different distros I was quite happy when the 8.10 ubuntu server actually worked :P
00:36<ml|>picky machine
00:36-!-et1783 [~Tyler@59-126-250-89.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #debian
00:36<pipe>indeed
00:37-!-etzerd [~etzerd@pool-74-101-129-104.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
00:37*pipe wonders what would happen if he replaces all the ubuntu repositories in sources.list with debian sources and does a dist upgrade...
00:37<ml|>booommm
00:37<cor_r>there is not really much buntkuh still has in common with debian
00:37<pipe>have to try in a vm some day
00:38<ml|>!nuke ubuntu
00:38*dpkg fires an 80 ton thermonuclear weapon at ubuntu
00:38<pipe>Can't see why you're so negative to ubuntu
00:38<pipe>I'm very happy it exists
00:38<cor_r>ml|, that was really really cool, gotta ask the channel op to put this in our channel as well :D
00:38<ml|>who me?
00:38<pipe>you = random people
00:38<pipe>And that the most usable "beginner linux" is based on debian
00:39<pipe>It's just good for everyone
00:39<ml|>dpkg: rocks
00:39<dpkg>Yer damned right...
00:39<ml|>cor_r: yeah dpkg is da bomb
00:40<cor_r>buntkuh is nice especially for beginners coming from win, but thats it..after half year you should switch and get a ditro wich really bases on debian
00:40<[BT]Brendan>What's bad about Ubuntu?
00:40<ml|>!ot
00:40<dpkg>Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic (i.e. Debian support); imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day. #debian-offtopic is the place for longer off-topic discussions.
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00:40<[BT]Brendan>What makes debian better than Ubuntu?*
00:40<cor_r>ml|, thanks-.- ;)
00:41<ml|>np, heh
00:41<edbian>[BT]Brendan, The free-ness, the stability
00:42<[BT]Brendan>Aren't they both supposed to be free and stable?
00:42<[BT]Brendan>free atleast...
00:42<pipe>not as free nd not as stable :)
00:42<cor_r>suppose
00:42<pipe>debian is kinda anal about freedom, which is one major reason I use it
00:42<[BT]Brendan>What do you mean by it being more free?
00:42<Nemoder>and also the reason we have iceweasel instead of firefox :)
00:43<cor_r>and I think buntkuh doesnt holds fast the core values and social contrat of DeDebian
00:43-!-alephnull [~alok@122.172.6.250] has joined #debian
00:43<Nemoder>!dfsg
00:43<dpkg>dfsg is, like, the Debian Free Software Guidelines, which are explained at http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines
00:44-!-scientes [~scientes@174-21-146-5.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
00:44<cor_r>thx again for all your dpkg knowledge :D
00:44<pipe>[BT]Brendan: You can basically do whatever you want with debian, Ubuntu includes software where that does not hold true, for example firefox, also certain closed hardware drivers and more.
00:44<ml|>cor_r: /msg dpkg help and/or dpkgbot
00:45<cor_r>ah thx, always wondered how evryone knows ;)
00:46<pipe>what is this?! "No Discrimination Against Persons or Groups". Now I can't release my anti-eskimo linux :(
00:46-!-pos [~mark@120.155.250.173] has joined #debian
00:46<seeS>pipe: there actually have been times where this sort of thing has been tried, not eskimos afaik
00:46<cor_r>how is discriminatin defined? and does buntkuh count as group or organisation?
00:47<ml|>as if eskimos had computers ;)
00:47<cor_r>inuits
00:47<Nemoder>well technically if it was your own debian varient you could
00:47-!-edbian [~ed@c-98-228-251-58.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
00:47<seeS>easily, "this program is free to use except for people who are XYZ"
00:47<Nemoder>the no discrimination rule is just for debian itself
00:48<ml|>Nemoder: yep
00:48<cor_r>Nemoder , YES :D
00:48<pipe>seeS: I've only heard about non-business use, non-nuclear-research and such
00:48<Nemoder>just dont come to us for support when you get skewerd by an eskimo
00:48<seeS>pipe: those two and the third I know of is cannot be used for CB-radio operators
00:49<pipe>Wtf :)
00:49<seeS>hamradio/amateur radio code has a long sad sad history of retarded licenses
00:49-!-jcwu [~jcwu@220-132-178-149.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #debian
00:50<seeS>though, ironically enough, a lot of early debian development was by hamradio people
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00:51<pipe>[ot] I'd like to start experimenting with that some day.. build up a small network of radio friends that can route email and such in case of emergency
00:52<jrabbit>theres weird radio/wifi/itnernet mashups
00:52<jrabbit>and they're very FCC crippled sadly
00:52<seeS>and then you can take over all the maintenance of hamradio packages
00:52<pipe>Are they orphaned?
00:52<seeS>umm
00:53<pipe>Or are you the maintainer? :)
00:53<jrabbit>haha
00:53<seeS>nah, in the dark dim history of the project i was
00:53-!-muammar [~muammar@190.74.213.204] has joined #debian
00:54<seeS>2001 apparently i handed them over
00:55<pipe>Back in the days debian run on one of the 6 mainframes in the world
00:55<Nemoder>and now it just helps run the world :)
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00:57<seeS>gee, what were we running on in 97 then
00:58<pipe>back then it was just a theoretical concept
00:59<pipe>like quantum encryption, writing code for future computers
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01:45<wilson>Hello?
01:45<wilson>Anyone in here?
01:45<sney>usually
01:46<wilson>:D
01:46<sney>whatever it is, ask away
01:46<wilson>i accidently got here
01:46<wilson>i was trying to configure irc for another server
01:46<wilson>IRC is too hard to get. :/
01:47<ml|>dpkg: irc tutorial
01:47<dpkg>A Short IRC Primer: http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/ircprimer.html
01:47<sney>it's old technology but once you understand the server/channel way it works it's pretty simple
01:48<wilson>ok
01:48<wilson>thanks
01:48<pipe>It's very convenient I think
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01:49<sney>people are so spoiled by point and clicky stuff
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01:50<ml|>pipe: yes it is
01:50-!-scientes [~scientes@174-21-146-5.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:51<ml|>sney: true, but somethings are easier in a gui
01:51<pipe>Of course
01:51<pipe>Vector image editing for example
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02:01<[BT]Brendan>pipe: I thought firefox was open source?
02:03<ml|>dpkg: why iceweasel
02:03<dpkg>Due to Mozilla logos licensing, Mozilla software isn't DFSG-free, so Debian distributes Mozilla software with different logos. One day Mozilla Corporation decided to revoke the agreement to let Debian use Mozilla trademarks, so Debian changed to non-trademarked product names. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation_software_rebranded_in_Debian for more information. Ask me about <dfsg>.
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02:28<kaduk>Hi
02:28<pipe>lo
02:28<kaduk>is Xorg in still crashing and with not operatable mouse?
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02:29<pipe>obviously not, since millions of people around the world is using it :)
02:29-!-amphi_ [~amphi@88-109-116-85.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #debian
02:30<kaduk>1.7.3 version ?
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02:31<pipe>Don't know about that one
02:31<pipe>isn't there a bug entry?
02:31<sney>judd: versions xserver-xorg
02:31<judd>sney: xserver-xorg -- etch: 1:7.1.0-19 lenny: 1:7.3+18 squeeze: 1:7.4+4 sid: 1:7.5+1
02:32-!-jackyf [~jackyf@a91-154-120-217.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #debian
02:32<sney>haven't heard anything odd about the xorg in lenny
02:32<]{orruption^vi>Can anyone help a linux noob with his first install? Everything installed great, but I'm stuck at the login screen. Either I have the normal user account name wrong or it doesn't exist. How can I edit users before logging in (I have my root password)?
02:32<sney>you can log in as root
02:32<]{orruption^vi>how so
02:32<sney>use 'root' as the username instead of your regular user
02:33<]{orruption^vi>didnt work
02:33<kaduk>for Uubuntu it does not
02:33<kaduk>sudo su
02:33<sney>we don't support ubuntu here.
02:33<kaduk>yup
02:33<sney>!ubuntu
02:33<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it is unlikely to live up to Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu (irc.freenode.net) instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian>.
02:33<]{orruption^vi>lol
02:33<]{orruption^vi>ill try to use "Root" and "root" again just to make sure
02:34<BobHartge>single user
02:34<sney>it'll never be in caps, that's for sure
02:34<kaduk>]{orruption^vi, if you root password does not work you can reset it booting in single user
02:34<]{orruption^vi>im already in single user mode
02:34<kaduk>]{orruption^vi, or booting with init=/bin/sh parameter
02:34<BobHartge>you should be able to add users from there
02:35<kaduk>or change password
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02:35<]{orruption^vi>what is the dif between single user mode and regular?
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02:35<kaduk>sney, ok I am wrong 7.5 xserver
02:36<kaduk>sney, the one on sid
02:36<sney>kaduk: check bts
02:36<sney>!bts
02:36<dpkg>Bug Tracking System for Debian packages, http://bugs.debian.org/ or to go directly to the bug page for a particular package/bug, try http://bugs.debian.org/packagename or http://bugs.debian.org/bugnumber . aptitude install reportbug, and check out <querybts> too. Users of unstable and testing are required to check the BTS. Useful for unstable and testing: aptitude install apt-listbugs apt-listchanges
02:36<kaduk>apt-listbugs dont report anything
02:36<]{orruption^vi>ahh, sney. its letting me login as root now. last time i wasnt in single user mode
02:36<kaduk>either it did not report anything when X was crashing
02:36<kaduk>I had to downgrade
02:37-!-mode/#debian [+l 369] by debhelper
02:37<]{orruption^vi>why can i login as root in single user mode but not regular mode?
02:37<pipe>]{orruption^vi: single-user mode is a special mode in the system, you souldn't normally run in that mode, but it's for system maintenance etc
02:37<sney>kaduk: sometimes things in sid are just broken
02:37<pipe>]{orruption^vi: Now when you're logged in, you can change the normal root password to something you know, and you can change the user password as well
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02:45<]{orruption^vi>wtf, there is a user name AND a user login name?
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02:46<goodger>]{orruption^vi: yes, Benjamin Goodger is not equal to 01cgoodgerb
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02:48<pipe>I think that's slightly confusing actually, but probably unavoidable
02:48<pipe>The debian installer dialogue should have those options on the same screen I think
02:49<pipe>with the username *first* and the realname second (the real name is really optional)
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02:51<]{orruption^vi>oh well. guess i confused that part
02:51<]{orruption^vi>they were the same
02:51<]{orruption^vi>just login name was lower case lol
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03:00<kon>where is the tracking of bugs located for lucid?
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03:00<jmarsden>kon: http://launchpad.net BUT this is #debian not #ubuntu
03:01<kon>oops -.-
03:01<pipe>Hm
03:01<pipe>kon: is #debian a default irc channel for you?
03:02<kon>no, simply an error in my brain
03:02<pipe>Ok, good
03:02<pipe>Although it's hard to file a bug report on that
03:03<kon>it's not about that :P
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03:37<goodger>good morning--- a few weeks ago my squeeze installation's copy of gnome-bluetooth started telling me that my system has no bluetooth adaptors plugged in, which is a filthy lie--- can anyone offer advice?
03:38<pipe>there are some random issues with certain btadapters
03:39<pipe>is it a usb adapter?
03:40<goodger>no, it's built-in
03:41<goodger>running hcitool says "no such device", but it shows up on lsmod
03:41<goodger>googling suggests to add lenny repositories to sources.list, to which I say "wat"
03:41<pipe>heh
03:41<pipe>yeah
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03:42<goodger>pipe: is that a recommendation to do so?
03:43<pipe>I have no idea, really
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03:43<goodger>well, thanks anyway :/
03:43<pipe>The only thing I can imagine is that somehow, a package was removed from squeeze because another package replace the functionionality, and now the new package is broken?
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03:44<goodger>might be
03:44-!-]{orruption^vi [~YowcephH@99-13-199-183.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has quit []
03:44<goodger>that would conform to squeeze's groundbreaking policy of being, rather than an operating system, a very large collection of bugs made available on compact discs
03:45<pipe>"The current "stable" distribution of Debian GNU/Linux is version 5.0.3, codenamed lenny."
03:45<pipe>HTH :P
03:45<goodger>lenny wasn't this bad when it was testing
03:46<goodger>it broke perhaps twice
03:46<goodger>squeeze is insane
03:46<pipe>anecdotes
03:46<pipe>I've run squeeze a lot, never had any real issues
03:46<valdyn>goodger: the fact that *you* are hitting a bug is coincidence, not a proof that squeeze is worse than lenny
03:46<goodger>I am hitting bug after bug after bug :/
03:47<goodger>but meh
03:47<valdyn>goodger: beside that you should be using lenny in the first place
03:47<cahoot>isn't stumbling on bugs one of the points with testing?
03:47-!-gerzel [~gerzel@adsl-150-154-10.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:47<pipe>indeed it is
03:47<jmarsden>goodger: Thanks for testing "testing". You *are* filing bug report after bug report, right?
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03:48<goodger>my point is that these are bugs of magnitude sufficient in their grossness to ensure their detection during the ten days they are supposed to spend being poked intensely before migrating to testing at all
03:48<goodger>it seems some maintainers are being more lax than others in this regard
03:49<valdyn>goodger: thats not news
03:49<valdyn>goodger: maintainers even sleep for year(s)
03:49<goodger>if they sleep for years they generally make no uploads at all, rather than uploading faulty stuff to testing
03:49<goodger>but I digress
03:50<goodger>is anyone in a position to assist me with my bluetooth problem, or is the consensus that I should downgrade to lenny and stop moaning?
03:50<valdyn>goodger: you can tell that its *their* faulty stuff once you know the bug fix, but maybe this is a package interaction issue and they are not even at fault
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03:51<valdyn>which /dev node represents bt?
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03:56<goodger>I have no idea, how does one find out?
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03:56<goodger>when I installed squeeze on this machine I was pleasantly surprised to find that bluetooth just worked, so I was spared from all this
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04:15<dfgdhgfdgfhfghgf>Is there a way to install KDE 4.3 on debian stable? It looks like install kde-desktop will get me 3.5.
04:16<dfgdhgfdgfhfghgf>Oh wait, duhrrrrrr
04:16<dfgdhgfdgfhfghgf>nevermind
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04:24<dfgdhgfdgfhfghgf>Ugh, what's with all of the "Cannot initiate the connection to volatile.debian.org:80 (2001:858:2:2::2). - connect (101 Network is unreachable)" errors I keep getting?
04:25<dfgdhgfdgfhfghgf>When I try to reload in Synaptic
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04:26<goodger>dfgdhgfdgfhfghgf: synaptic is unable to get an internet connection
04:26<dfgdhgfdgfhfghgf>Weird, because it connects to everything else fine :s
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04:44<nowisthetime>I installed KDE but there's no session for it. What do I do?
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04:45<ml|>nowisthetime: try asking in #debian-kde
04:45<nowisthetime>ok, thanks
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05:27<scientes>what is a good form of proportional representation for a small body, ie 5 seats?
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05:31<diggy>it's possible to upgrade from sid to testing?
05:32<pipe>by definition no :)
05:32<pipe>and I don't think it's that easy in practice either
05:33<pipe>But it should be possible I think, testing doesn't trail sid *that* much as long as there's no freeze, right?
05:33<diggy>i thought: 1) change the sources.list (sid->testing); 2) apt-get update 3) apt-get -t upgrade 4) apt-get -t dist-upgrade
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05:34<pipe>what's the '-t'?
05:34<pipe>ah, target
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05:34<diggy>--target-release
05:35<diggy>oh, sorry: apt-get -t testing upgrade
05:35<pipe>well you need a parameter for that
05:35<diggy>and so on
05:35<pipe>yes
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05:53<box02>Hi somebody helps me to setup mpd correctly
05:54<box02>I couldn't create mpd db
05:55<pipe>hm
05:55<pipe>enable debug log
05:55<box02>how to do that?
05:56<box02>I got this error cannot setgid for user "mpd" at line 36: Operation not permitted
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08:31<twb>I started getting this recently, when using apt-get -t foo. What's the problem? I definitely DO have unstable releases in my sources.list.
08:31<twb>W: Ignore unavailable target release 'unstable' of package 'ghc6'
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08:37<themill>twb: can you pastebin the command, output and also "apt-cache policy ghc6"
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08:38<twb>themill: one moment...
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08:40<twb>http://pastebin.com/f2abe3107
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08:44<themill>twb: you presumably have a deb-src line for sid in your sources.list?
08:44<twb>Yep
08:45<twb>I was just gonna grep-dctrl for you, since apt-cache policy obviously only shows deb entries
08:45<themill>twb: does apt-get source actually obey -t anyway? it certainly doesn't in lenny and earlier.
08:45<twb>themill: it does IME
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08:46<themill>it was an old wishlist bug that is perhaps now fixed
08:46<tuxcrafter>hi all
08:46<twb>Note that -t shouldn't work with "sid", but should work with "unstable"
08:46<tuxcrafter>i updated my system today and there were new xorg packageas
08:46<tuxcrafter>and now my mouse does not work anymore
08:46<twb>The *real* reason this concerns me is because I have a target release (testing) set in my apt.conf
08:46<tuxcrafter>the cursor keep jumping back to the middle of the mouse
08:47<tuxcrafter>i have an unstable (not supported) system but has anybody else had these issues?
08:47<twb>tuxcrafter: mouse works here
08:48<twb>tuxcrafter: xserver-xorg-input-evdev 1:2.3.2-2em1
08:48<tuxcrafter>http://sidux.com/PNphpBB2-viewtopic-p-148300.html
08:48<themill>twb: there are many quirks in apt-get source. "apt-get source package=version" is the only reliable way that I've found to deal with it. (Or use dget on the URL to the dsc...)
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08:51<twb>Hmm, maybe the problem IS only affecting apt-get source
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08:51<twb>Grmph. Where's a package that's different versions in sid and squeeze, and has few dependencies?
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08:52<twb>Let's try darcs.
08:53<twb>themill: sudo apt-get install -t testing (or unstable) darcs does the right thing, so I will just stop worrying about it
08:53<themill>:)
08:54<twb>tuxcrafter: sidux isn't Debian (AFAIK)
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09:08<tuxcrafter>twb: i know but i found the report with google
09:09<tuxcrafter>i am using deiban
09:09<tuxcrafter>i downgraded my xorg packages to testing
09:09<tuxcrafter>but kow i got the bug again that my cursor is invissable
09:10<pipe>return of the invisible cursor
09:10<tuxcrafter>when switching to VGA only and disablin LVDS
09:10<pipe>pt 2
09:10<tuxcrafter>i must have the unluckest intel platform laptop on earth or something
09:10<tuxcrafter>hp mini 5101
09:11<tuxcrafter>something breaks every month :D
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09:12<pipe>well it says "hp" in the name
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09:13<twb>tuxcrafter: is that a GMA500?
09:14<twb>The GMA 500s are totally fucked, they're actually PowerVR stuff that Intel bought
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09:14<etenil>Hi all
09:14<pipe>'lo
09:14<etenil>ah ah
09:15<etenil>When compiling programs in debian, is there a place where i can define the -j option for gcc to compile on several cores?
09:15<etenil>otherwise i need to edit each makefile -_-
09:15<tuxcrafter>twb: lspci > http://debian.pastebin.com/d429855bd
09:16<twb>etenil: uh, "make -j4 install"
09:16<twb>etenil: you pass it on the command line
09:16<etenil>really?
09:16<twb>etenil: but in .devscripts you can put DEBUILD_DPKG_BUILDPACKAGE_OPTS=-j for debuild
09:16<etenil>can it be that simple?
09:16<etenil>ok
09:16<twb>etenil: man make
09:16<etenil>thanks a lot then
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09:18<etenil>that works great
09:18<etenil>thanks twb
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09:30<fred1>anyone here know much about debianlive?
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09:30<twb>fred1: #debian-live does
09:30<twb>!tell fred1 -about anyone
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09:31<fred1>!beer twb
09:31*dpkg pulls out an exquisite Guinness for twb
09:31<fred1>didnt realize it had its own channel
09:31<sjors_>hi, is there a way to install testing right now? it seems pretty broken
09:32<fred1>and the question was sufficiently long and confused enough that I didnt want to type the whole thing out if no one here knew a lot about it
09:32<fred1>'broken' is the definition of testing
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09:34<twb>fred1: you could always copy-and-paste that question to wherever else if no-one answered
09:34<sjors_>fred1: in that case it is now more broken than before
09:35<twb>That's what happens
09:35<twb>A stable release is basically a declaration that new bugs aren't allowed in
09:35<fred1>perhaps I should have asked "Is this a good place to ask about debianlive, or is there somewhere better" :P
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09:39<sjors_>well, in that case I think I should be looking for a distro that has KDE4...
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09:42<fred1>lenny seems to have kde4
09:42<fred1>any particular reason you need kde4, other than just a blind desire to have 'the latest'
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09:43<twb>fred1: he's a KDE user, so option #2
09:43<sjors_>lenny uses kde3.5
09:43<fred1>odd.. I see kde4 in synaptic
09:43<fred1>and im on lenny
09:43<sjors_>i've been using kde4 a while now and i like it. No need to switch back
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09:44<fred1>so if you are already using it, whats the prblem?
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09:44<sjors_>I'm trying to install it on a new system
09:44<themill>fred1: kde4 libraries are in lenny, kde4 itself is not.
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09:45<fred1>themill, oic
09:45*fred1 <doesnt use kde
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09:51<TCW>But with the mos recent xorg X does not start anymore with the manual stup in xorg.conf. If I delete those entries X starts again, but the tablet is inoperable...
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09:52<TCW>s/stup/setup/
09:52<twb>TCW: serial as in 9-pin?
09:52<TCW>twb, serial as in rs232
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09:52<twb>That's the one I meant
09:52<TCW>twb, rs232 can mean 25pin too ;)
09:53<weasel>rj45 != ethernet
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09:54<TCW>I thought maybe the way to set uo a old-fashioned serial tabelt may have changed, but at least nothing documented in the xserver-xorg-input-wacom package
09:54<twb>weasel: right, that's 802.1 :P
09:55<TCW>so... anyone? ;)
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09:55<weasel>twb: no.
09:56<fred1>TCW, does gpm recognize the tablet?
09:56<fred1>if you can get gpm working with it, then you load X with no other mice/pointing devices connected, it should pick up from gpm
09:56<fred1>i think, anyway
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09:57<TCW>fred1, a tablet has some very special options, just a generic mouse device does not compare to it, so basically it is worthless trying
09:59<TCW>fred1, and using gpm (repeater mode) would be an ugly hack, debian is not about ugly hacks, it is about nice and fancy bug squashing ;)
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10:00<TCW>main xorg channel is on oftc? Or was it freenode?
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10:03<twb>TCW: the xorg schmucks probably have their own IRC server
10:03-!-robertf [~frederic@2001:41d0:2:3478::] has quit [Quit: leaving]
10:03<twb>s/xorg/FDO/, I mean.
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10:03<TCW>twb, hehe, possible :)
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10:09<cahoot>twb: why 'schuck'?
10:09<cahoot>err schmuck
10:09<twb>Because I don't much like fdo
10:10<TCW>cahoot, isn't that obvious? I think all technically oriented unix guys have a bad feeling about most stuff fdo folks do, or at least the way they do it
10:10-!-davyg [~davyg@dau94-9-88-178-191-172.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian
10:10<twb>They have this huge roundabout way of doing things that ought to be simple
10:10<twb>Kinda like XML
10:10-!-mercutio22 [~mercutio2@201-1-46-2.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #debian
10:10<pipe>and xulrunner
10:11<pipe>and java
10:11<pipe>and .net
10:11<twb>Yes, moco would be another prime example
10:11<pipe>etc etc
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10:11<twb>I also don't think it's a good idea to make computers easy for "normal" people to use
10:11<abrotman>there are a few xorg related channels on freenode
10:11<cahoot>totally ignoring the widespread knowledge in #debian?
10:12<pipe>twb: Actually I think that it doesn't matter for "us" if "normal" people find computers easy to use
10:13-!-foolano [~magnetic@14.Red-88-26-177.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #debian
10:13<pipe>twb: There are more hardcore geeks now than there was 20 years ago, just not percentually
10:14<twb>pipe: it does, because it's "easier" for them at my expense
10:14<twb>e.g. Emacs now requires dbus
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10:14<TCW>the thing trying modern linux desktops mimicing the way windows works for plain users... oh hell... another thing
10:14<orte>Debian irc in italian?please
10:14<twb>!tell orte about it
10:15<orte>Grazie, twb
10:15<pipe>TCW: Yeah, there are actually doing it more difficult for everyone just in order for things to behave like windows, that's just retarded
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10:15<TCW>One may be fine with it or not, but at least the stuff should imitate the bad windows / mac OS X flaws! Unix/Linux is NOT WIndows!
10:15<pipe>yeah
10:15*themill points towards #debian-offtopic
10:15<TCW>should not* even
10:15<pipe>what's there? I can't see that far
10:16<mercutio22>is there way I can check when a certain version of a program will be available for testing or stable? Or is there no estimate of when packages are accepted into particular versions of debian?
10:17-!-mode/#debian [+l 406] by debhelper
10:17<witte>mercutio22: in stable: only at a new release of stable (which may take a while)
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10:18<witte>mercutio22: in testing: you could see the package tracking system, eg http://packages.qa.debian.org/p/pidgin.html for pidgin
10:18<abrotman>mercutio22: which package ?
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10:19<witte>mercutio22: a package is moved from unstable to testing after 10 days without major bugs (maybe not exact definition)
10:19<mercutio22>witte: thanks man. abrotman: I was interested in the new transmissio (1.80) but it seems its still beta.
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10:20<abrotman>you could try to build the package yourself if you're really that interested
10:20<pipe>mercutio22: it's usually easy/trivial to compile your own
10:20<witte>mercutio22: stable is normally "stable": it does not change ;-). (only security updates are done)
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10:21<mercutio22>pipe: yeah, I know... but I have had issues in the past, breaking my entire system. I'd much rather wait for precompiled repository versions.
10:21<pipe>mercutio22: that sounds really unusual
10:21<witte>!tell mercutio22 about bpo
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10:23<mercutio22>pipe: pipe I was using ubuntu back then. I compiled avant-window-navigator, and a certain library got replaced and breaked compiz. It was really weird... I spent four days trying to figure out what was going on
10:24<pipe>mercutio22: that's really really bad, and the developers should be whined at for such behaviour :)
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10:24<mercutio22>pipe: yeah, and I suppose when installing from the repositories, it has been previously tested by several people right?
10:25<abrotman>yeah, but if you're mixing versions and installing things you don't understand, the developer isn't really to blame
10:25<witte>mercutio22: that is the idea ;)
10:25<mercutio22>I mean, it had to pass sid screening
10:26<twb>witte: strictly speaking, I think stable also allows insanely critical bugfixes
10:26<mercutio22>abrotman: yeah, that might have been the case. Now, I only compile in case there is no hope of getting a repository package
10:26<twb>There's a document somewhere explaining the criteria
10:26<abrotman>http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-getting#s-updatestable
10:27<twb>Thanks
10:28<pipe>That's what's insanely cool with debian stable
10:28-!-sjors_ [~sjors_@195-240-3-7.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg]
10:28<mercutio22>I find debian testing a good compromise between stability and novelty
10:28<twb>I think my favourite thing about Debian is lintian
10:28-!-Pepo [~pepol@ppp-80-87-222-178.dsidata.sk] has quit [Quit: Segmentation Fault!]
10:29<abrotman>though the current number of RC bugs in stable isn't awesome
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10:31<mercutio22>abrotman: wow, its like 5 times the number of rc bugs debian had in 2003
10:32<witte>mercutio22: there is also more software in debian now compared to that period
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10:34<mercutio22>witte: yeah.. well remarked
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10:34<witte>mercutio22: still, what are you doing here, go out and fix some this afternoon ;-)
10:35<twb>More crap, bloated software, obviously :P
10:35<pipe>nah
10:35<pipe>there are non-bloat people writing software too
10:35<mercutio22>witte: yeah man.. I have to learn some programming. I'd like too. I will try to get some education when I can
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10:44<rmann>Help needed on a boot problem.
10:45<abrotman>!ask
10:45<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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10:46<rmann>Just installed debian from dvd image. Everything was smooth but while booting it gets hung up on a iwlwifi file
10:47<rmann>I'm a absolute beginner on linux so not sure of commands to use etc.
10:48<abrotman>is there an actual error ?
10:48<rmann>1 sec let me write it
10:50<rmann>Iwl3945: iwlwifi-3945-1.ucode firmware file req failed: reason -2
10:50<abrotman>and then it just stops ?
10:50<rmann>It just keeps repeating that line
10:51-!-afurlan [~afurlan@189.34.72.40] has joined #debian
10:51<pipe>That's a little strange
10:51-!-amphi_ [~amphi@88-109-93-229.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #debian
10:51<rmann>I d/l driver
10:51<rmann>But don't know what to do
10:51<pipe>!iwl3945
10:51<dpkg>iwlwifi is the new driver for Intel 3945 and 4965 wireless LAN chipsets for etchnhalf and lenny onwards. Firmware is required, ask me about <non-free sources> and install the firmware-iwlwifi package to provide. See http://wiki.debian.org/iwlwifi (particularly if switching from ipw3945). See also <iwlagn> <wmaster0> <iwlwifi etch>. #ipw2100 on irc.freenode.net.
10:51<pipe>maybe
10:52<cahoot>rmann: doesn't the boot progress eventually?
10:52<abrotman>you don't need to d/l a 'driver' .. just install the firmware-iwlwifi package
10:52<beer>but how can he do that if it hangs on boot?
10:52<rmann>it doesn't boot eventually, do I hit something to skip it?
10:52<abrotman>ctrl-c perhaps
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10:53<rmann>Ctrl c didn't work
10:54<rmann>There was very minimal help via google search
10:54<abrotman>if you just hit enter, do you get a login prompt ?
10:54<rmann>Yeah but sometimes it is interrupted again by that same line
10:55<rmann>I logged in as root
10:55<rmann>Then it just keeps printing that line
10:55<pipe>It shouldn't :(
10:55<abrotman>rmann: you can still type commands
10:56<pipe>It should fail once and then just shut up
10:56<cahoot>rmann: so it's just a kernel msg
10:56<mk_>rmann: apt-get install firmware-iwlwifi
10:56<abrotman>aptitude install
10:56-!-longbow [~longbow.c@222.130.184.150] has joined #debian
10:56<cahoot>presuming a working netconnection
10:57<Aprogas>Apparently ctrl+a and remove in the auto removable category in synaptic wasn't very smart.
10:57<pipe>I should find out the difference between aptitude and apt-get some day
10:57<witte>!why aptitude
10:57<dpkg>aptitude has more advanced conflict/dependency resolution and will often be able to come up with a solution where apt-get just gives up. It has advanced search capabilities (see <aptitude search>). Like apt-get, it can also remove or purge one package at the same time as installing others all from the command line or at the Y/n/q/? prompt using its interactive resolver, making it much easier to recover from broken dependencies.
10:57<abrotman>!tell pipe about why aptitude
10:57<Aprogas>aptitude is "smarter"
10:57<pipe>Because apt-get is about 197 times faster on slow machines
10:57<rmann>I am an absolute beginner so I need exact writing. Right now it says debian: #
10:57-!-ed_away_ [~edhunter@p54A762B3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian
10:57<abrotman>rmann: aptitude install firmware-iwlwifi
10:58*mk_ still stay with apt-get =P
10:58<abrotman>you should be using aptitude in most cases
10:58<rmann>Ok
10:58<rmann>Now its doing a bunch of stuff
10:58<rmann>I hit y to continue
10:59<pipe>good
10:59<pipe>doing a bunch of stuff is good :)
10:59<rmann>Lol
10:59<mk_>=)
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10:59<rmann>For a newb, what exactly is it doing
11:00<pipe>rmann: it is hopefully installing more packages in your machine
11:00-!-grochap [~grochap@201-2-134-253.pltce701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:00<pipe>rmann: Downloading from the internet
11:00<cahoot>rmann: you know we can't really see your display
11:00<rmann>Yea
11:00<abrotman>"really"
11:01<cahoot>well only imagine it
11:01<rmann>I'm not a newb to comps just linux hehe
11:01*abrotman comps cahoot
11:01<rmann>Ok now its done
11:01<rmann>Now says debian: #
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11:02<witte>rmann: ok, that's it, should work now :-)
11:02<rmann>Do I reboot?
11:02<abrotman>rmann: the 'simplest' way to see if it works is to reboot
11:02<rmann>K
11:03<witte>rmann: you are probably still know to windows, so you don't hate the idea to reboot as much as we do :P
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11:03<rmann>Is there a command to reboot, nm just tried reboot lol
11:03<abrotman>he can be taught!
11:03-!-SubZero [~SubZero@chello089076140236.chello.pl] has quit []
11:03<rmann>Commands are simple. At times
11:03<rmann>Lol
11:03<ml|>heh
11:03<rmann>Android is what is getting me so interested
11:04<ml|>rmann: want to do some reading on linux to learn some stuff?
11:04<rmann>Yea I have started a lil bit
11:04<rmann>Starting w/ architecture first
11:04-!-Guest1555 [~edhunter@p4FC76B11.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:04<rmann>Ok it rebooted no errors now at debian:#
11:05<abrotman>rmann: now what else do you want to install ?
11:05<cahoot>skype?
11:05<abrotman>what?
11:05<TCW>http://paste.debian.net/56241/ <- other xorg 1.7 sid users have the same EE errors in xorg? Does X start for you nevertheless?
11:05<rmann>A gui?
11:05<abrotman>rmann: do you know which one you would like ?
11:06<rmann>Hehe no sorry thought it said something about gnu?
11:06<abrotman>you can look at some at http://xwinman.org/ .. two of the more popular ones are gnome and kde
11:06<TCW>err... s/xorg/Xorg.0.log/
11:06<abrotman>also popular might be lxde or xfce
11:06<witte>rmann: most people start with something like gnome
11:07<witte>!install gnome
11:07<dpkg>To install GNOME on sarge or later, install the 'gnome' package to install everything, the 'gnome-desktop-environment' package for slightly less stuff, or the 'gnome-core' package for even less. You will need X installed as well, ask me about <install x>. http://wiki.debian.org/Gnome
11:07<ml|>rmann: /msg dpkg grounding /msg dpkg unix lessons /msg dpkg general cli tutorial /msg dpkg reference <--- will get you started ;)
11:07<witte>rmann: you can install as many as you want and choose at login
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11:07<rmann>ok
11:08<rmann>Now I need to figure out how to install
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11:08<rmann>:/
11:08<abrotman>rmann: is this a pretty new computer or an older test box ?
11:08<rmann>3 yr old laptop
11:08<rmann>2 gb ram
11:08<rmann>Core 2 duo
11:08<rmann>160 gb hdd
11:08<abrotman>okay .. if you wanted to use gnome .. `aptitude install gnome gdm xorg` .. and hit enter
11:09<ml|>rmann: before you continue maybe do some reading suggested above
11:09-!-Meise [~daniel@port-92-204-104-140.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #debian
11:09<abrotman>ml|: with w3m ?
11:09<rmann>I def will read (love to) just wanted to get a gui up and running first
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11:10<rmann>Wow u can install right from prompt. Pretty cool
11:10<ml|>abrotman: yeah, just noticed he does not have a de/wm yet, but with w3m it can be done ;)
11:10<abrotman>sure ..
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11:11<TCW>rmann, GNU/Linux is centered on the shell in general, real geeks don't use a gui at all :)
11:12<ml|>just saying so he does not do something to screw his fresh install
11:12<rmann>:0) but noobs do right?
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11:12<witte>rmann: don't let them, most people use a gui, they only do a lot of things using a shell (which they open in a gui)
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11:13<ml|>rmann: will all do to, some more than others
11:13<TCW>rmann, not just n00bs, apparently I don't know any geek that does not use some sort of a gui :)
11:13-!-Haw [~Hawland@201-68-176-175.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #debian
11:13<cahoot>would a 'real geek' even use a distro?
11:13<ml|>hah
11:13-!-sepultina [~quassel@zux221-140-168.adsl.green.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:13<rmann>:)
11:13<sravan>Hi, I have tried installing adobe flash player in debian from the adobe site and on installing it "dpkg -i install_flash_player_10.deb"
11:14-!-flower [~d@cc305009-a.groni1.gr.home.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:14<sravan>My dpkg got screwed and no other package is getting installed
11:14<rmann>Its still progressing but is giving me a lot of buffer i/o errors on device hda
11:14<witte>sravan: define screwed (error message)
11:14<TCW>rmann, the thing I wanted to say there was... you do not need X (the basic thing Gnome / KDE / XFCE / Fvwm / etc. all need) to use / work on a GNU/Linux system
11:14<abrotman>sravan: that's because that package isn't for debian
11:15<ml|>sravan: flash from adobe is non-free and dmm
11:15<abrotman>!tell sravan about bpo
11:15<abrotman>sravan: put the error in a pastebin
11:15<TCW>sravan, you know about debian-multimedia?
11:16<TCW>abrotman, bpo? Not rather dmo? :)
11:16<abrotman>no, backports.org has flash
11:16-!-longbow [~longbow.c@222.130.184.150] has left #debian []
11:16<abrotman>sravan: you can use paste.debian.net to paste if you need to
11:16<TCW>abrotman, _real_ flash? Not that sorry excuses like gnash and swfdec?
11:16<abrotman>yes .. go look
11:16<ml|>abrotman: is that the same in non-free but newer?
11:17-!-mode/#debian [+l 400] by debhelper
11:17<TCW>wow :)
11:17<abrotman>ml|: there is no adobe-flash in lenny, so you get it from backports.org
11:17<rmann>Are these buffer i/o errors a major prob?
11:17<abrotman>judd: versions flashplugin-nonfree
11:17<judd>abrotman: flashplugin-nonfree -- etch-backports/contrib: 1:1.4~bpo40+1 lenny-backports/contrib: 1:2.5~bpo50+1 sid/contrib: 1:2.8 squeeze/contrib: 1:2.8
11:17<sravan>I googled and found out a solution and it said me to remove "/var/lib/dpkg/info/flashplayer.prem"
11:17<sravan>I googled and found out a solution and it said me to remove "/var/lib/dpkg/info/flashplayer.prem"
11:17<ml|>abrotman: ok, did not know that
11:17<sravan>I did it and then reinstalled it again
11:17<ml|>thanks
11:17<abrotman>sravan: that package is *not* for debian
11:19<ml|>sravan: for next time, check the repos before downloading and installing things
11:20<abrotman>it's not in the repo anyways ..
11:20<abrotman>sravan: which problem do you need help with now ?
11:20<sravan>so now , even for example , if i try installing "sudo apt-get install wine" , I get the following error :
11:21<sravan>http://pastebin.com/m30583895
11:21<sravan>dpkg is not installing the actual package and in between getting corrupted
11:21<dpkg>sravan: You are person #1 to send an unparseable request
11:21<abrotman>sravan: paste all of the output
11:22<rmann>Ok its done now its a blue screen w/ samba server
11:23<abrotman>rmann: it's asking you questions
11:23<sravan>abortman : http://pastebin.com/m775850c
11:23-!-visicalc [~visicalc@e180156163.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
11:23<abrotman>sravan: ALL of the output .. not bits and pieces ...
11:23<abrotman>sravan: what if you try `dpkg -P flashplugin-installer` ?
11:24<TCW>ubuntu?
11:24<rmann>Why is it installing a 'server'
11:24<sravan>abrotman, : yeah, that's thew cmplete output
11:24<abrotman>sravan: why are you asking #debian about ubuntu /.
11:24<abrotman>?
11:24<sravan>abrotman, : it's not getting terminated
11:24<TCW>rmann, because you said "file server" during install?
11:24<sravan>it keeps on continuing forever
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11:25<witte>sravan: so it is still installing. Have patience
11:25<rmann>No I didn't have it checked
11:25<abrotman>rmann: i believe installing gnome pulls in samba so you can have file shares to windows machines if you want
11:25<rmann>Ok
11:25<TCW>rmann, ah... maybe a Desktop Environment did recommend it
11:25<abrotman>sravan: if you need help with ubuntu, please go to #ubuntu on irc.freenode.net
11:25<rmann>I went ahead anyway
11:25<TCW>rmann, just ignore the questions and use the defaults
11:26<rmann>Still installing
11:26<TCW>I alsmost _always_ install samba on my GNU/Linux machines, especially on laptops
11:27<sravan>abrotman, : thnx
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11:29<rmann>This install takes a lil time?
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11:31<abrotman>yeah
11:31<abrotman>it's a lot of packages ...
11:31<TCW>rmann, depending on how you install software. I guess via internet? Then it depends on how fast your connection is
11:31<rmann>Do any of you use android (phone)
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11:31<abrotman>probably lots of people .. why ?
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11:32<rmann>Is it the same commands and stuff as linux in general?
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11:34<abrotman>that i'm not sure .. there's a #android or something like that on irc.freenode.net though
11:34<rmann>Ok thanx
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11:35<TCW>rmann, afaik the userland on android is vastly modified, so it does differ a lot
11:35<abrotman>dcraig: will you please fix your IRC client
11:35<rmann>Brb
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11:36<rmann>Ok its done
11:36<rmann>Now back at prompt
11:36<abrotman>rmann: reboot again
11:36<ml|>hehe, that goes on constantly; I thought I was the only one who noticed
11:37<rmann>before I rebooted it was giving me the wifi errors again
11:38-!-Aleric [~carlo@dhcp-077-250-043-012.chello.nl] has joined #debian
11:38<rmann>SWEET!
11:38<abrotman>and your wifi works too ?
11:38<rmann>At a login 1 sec...
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11:39<witte>rmann: don't login as root in a gui
11:39-!-OkropNick [kuba@host-n2-72-114.telpol.net.pl] has joined #debian
11:39<rmann>I logged in as a user I added on install
11:39<witte>rmann: perfect
11:39<rmann>Thanx for advice. Reason for not doin so tho?
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11:40<rmann>Wifi isn't working
11:41<abrotman>rmann: you do have to configure it
11:41<rmann>Ok. Let me look around
11:41<abrotman>rmann: look at the top panel
11:42<rmann>K
11:42-!-amphi_ [~amphi@212.159.182.41] has joined #debian
11:42<rmann>I clicked on network icon
11:43<abrotman>and it gave you a list of wifi networks ?
11:43<rmann>Enable wireless is checked but no networks
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11:43<rmann>Just empty box
11:43<abrotman>rmann: open a terminal and type 'dmesg | grep iwl'
11:43<witte>rmann: with root you can do anything (and anything wrong as well), you could install programs etc (directly from the internet)
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11:45<rmann>Gv me original error w/ iwl3945
11:46<cahoot>about firmware?
11:46<rmann>Yea
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11:46<cahoot>strange
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11:47<cahoot>rmann: is there ani
11:47<rmann>?
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11:47<cahoot>rmann: is there any iwl* firmware in /lib/firmware?
11:47<Tailgunner>did you installed the firmware-iwlwifi package?
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11:48<rmann>Thought that's what abrotman helped me w/
11:48<rmann>Cuz I didn't have a gui
11:48<rmann>Wouldn't boot properly
11:49<cahoot>rmann: like iwlwifi-3945-1.ucode?
11:49<rmann>Yup
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11:50<cahoot>rmann: fro the record - it booted fine, just kept spewing msgs in the console
11:51<rmann>How do u skip those msgs?
11:51<cahoot>essentially by fixing the problem
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11:52<rmann>Oh
11:52<rmann>Lol
11:52<cahoot>which incidentally should have been fixed now
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11:53<rmann>Hmm any suggests what to do next?
11:54<cahoot>rmann: can you su (to root) in a terminal, then modprobe -r iwl3945 then modprobe iwl3945 and read the last 16 lines of dmesg
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11:56<rmann>I typed in both
11:56<rmann>1 sec
11:57-!-mode/#debian [+l 408] by debhelper
11:57<rmann>Ok
11:57<rmann>Read
11:58<cahoot>still complaints about firmware?
11:58<rmann>Yea
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11:59<cahoot>i e Iwl3945: iwlwifi-3945-1.ucode firmware file req failed: reason -2 ?
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12:00<rmann>Yup
12:00<cahoot>rmann: does the info in dmesg say where it expected the fw to be found?
12:01<Tailgunner>there's a iwlwifi-3945-2.ucode in the /lib/firmware directory?
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12:01<mbruins>ccount on 0
12:01<mbruins>account on 0
12:01<mbruins>oops ww sorry
12:01<Tailgunner>i have both 1 and 2 of them.. and it works
12:01<cahoot>well the error speaks of 1
12:02<rmann>No
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12:03<rmann>I checked that folder. Sd its empty
12:04<cahoot>rmann: so /lib/firmware is empty?
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12:05<edbian>I was just looking at my auth.log on my server and I noticed a lot of these: "Jan 10 10:39:01 bach CRON[3583]: pam_unix(cron:session): session opened for user root by (uid=0)
12:05<edbian>Jan 10 10:39:01 bach CRON[3583]: pam_unix(cron:session): session closed for user root" What is this cron job? I never wrote any cron jobs.
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12:06<cahoot>rmann: so (as root) aptitude install firmware-iwlwifi
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12:06<NSuldaz>greetings... can't find a current how-to on manually installing new fonts. It seems there are two ways to do it, roughly, one using defoma the other using font-config. Wondering if there is a current how-to for Lenny / Squeeze.
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12:07<cahoot>edbian: someting in /etc/cron.* ?
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12:09<edbian>"sudo crontab -l" reports "no crontab for root"
12:09<cahoot>edbian: someting in /etc/cron.hourly|daily|weekly?
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12:10<abrotman>edbian: it's /etc/crontab
12:12<edbian>I'll scour the /etc/cron*
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12:13<edbian>What is anacron? There is a crontab for it to run
12:14<ml|>dpkg: anacron
12:14<dpkg>methinks anacron is a cron-like program that runs jobs that cron would have skipped if the system was shutdown.
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12:15<edbian>ml|, anacron holds jobs until the computer is turned on and then runs them?
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12:21<ml|>edbian: this will explain anacron better than I ... http://www.linuxcommand.org/man_pages/anacron8.html
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12:22<NSuldaz>dpkg fonts
12:22<dpkg>hmm... fonts is check http://www.nwalsh.com/comp.fonts/FAQ/ for general info, ask me about <font guide>, or http://www.kegel.com/linux/tt.html and http://www.linux-mag.com/2000-02/guru_01.html or http://linuxgazette.net/issue96/adam.html, or http://egads.ertius.org/~rob/font_guide.txt, or http://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/20050425novalis Ask me about <install font>.
12:23<NSuldaz>dpkg install font
12:23<dpkg>To install fonts for just one user, copy then into ~/.fonts/ and then run fc-cache -fv (or ask me about <kfontinst>). To install them system-wide, copy them into /usr/share/fonts/truetype/myfonts or into /usr/local/share/fonts/truetype/myfonts (but you will have to add /usr/local/share/fonts/ to your xorg.conf) and run fc-cache -fv as root.
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12:25<ml|>dpkg: tell NSuldaz about selftell
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13:42<Lethalman>am I the only one experiencing slowness when doing I7O on disks?
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13:42<fred1>cannot grok "doing I70 on disks'
13:43<cahoot>io?
13:45<pipe>Lethalman: explain plz
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13:47<Lethalman>pipe, I/O sorry
13:47<Lethalman>I/O
13:47<Lethalman>i'm doing grep on a filesystem
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13:48<Lethalman>I know I/O is slow
13:48<Lethalman>the disk can be slow
13:48<Lethalman>but that's exactly what schedulers are used for
13:48<Lethalman>I can't move the mouse or change windows
13:48<Lethalman>for one process... that's bad
13:48<cahoot>change scheduler?
13:48<pipe>Well
13:49<pipe>Probably not the cause here I think?
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13:49<pipe>I'm using the "noop" io scheduler :)
13:49<Lethalman>why not the cause?
13:50<Lethalman>if one instant before running grep I was normally running my desktop
13:50-!-dogi [~dogi@c-65-96-166-32.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #debian
13:50<Lethalman>then after grep everything blocks worse than opening flash+java+whatelse
13:50<Lethalman>it's either the driver or the scheduler
13:51<pipe>but the io scheduler only handles the priority relative other io to the same disk, IIRC
13:51<pipe>I would guess on a driver issue
13:51<pipe>But what do I know
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13:51<Lethalman>pipe, it's not only the io scheduler
13:51<Lethalman>if a program takes all the cpu, it's not the io scheduler
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13:52<Lethalman>it's not about running I/O stuff faster
13:52<Lethalman>it's about letting other program run...
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13:52<pipe>you mean that if you run a CPU hogging program, you will experience the same mouse-issues?
13:53<pipe>even if you don't do any io
13:53<Lethalman>pipe, I'm not sure of this
13:53-!-foolanook is now known as foolano
13:53<Lethalman>but I'm sure it mostly happens when accessing disks
13:53<Lethalman>like updatedb
13:53<Lethalman>it also happens with dpkg
13:53<Lethalman>when loading all .list files
13:53<Lethalman>it's not about them being slow, I don't care, it's about blocking everything else
13:54<diggy>maybe your hdd working in pio mode?
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13:54<Lethalman>diggy, what's that?
13:54<Lethalman>I think I haven't tweaked anything since installing debian the first time
13:54<sney`>pre-DMA transfer speeds
13:54<Lethalman>for my hard drive
13:55<Lethalman>I don't get it, I used to use hdparm to enable dma but that's not the case with this hd... I need sdparm but what to tweak?
13:55*Lethalman is ignorant here
13:55<ml|>is the drive ok, besides for this issue?
13:55<pipe>have you checked dmesg for any errors or timeouts?
13:55<Lethalman>ml|, yes
13:56<Lethalman>pipe, no problems there
13:56<sney`>oh, SATA drives can't run in pio I don't think
13:56<Lethalman>the hd is sane and good
13:56<Lethalman>do you guys have problems if you run grep -inr something /
13:56<Lethalman>?
13:56<pipe>nope
13:56<ml|>nope
13:56<Lethalman>really?
13:56<diggy>i had same issue on my old redhat few years ago
13:56<Lethalman>mh
13:57-!-cockroach [~stefan@80-218-4-247.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #debian
13:57<pipe>I had a similar thing with this laptop and a compact flash card as IDE disk
13:57<pipe>But hm, wonder why that fixed itself
13:58<Lethalman>I think I'm experiencing this since using 2.6.x, where I don't remember the x :)
13:58<pipe>x = sin(y)*2pi
13:58-!-isak [~isak@78-73-89-9-no169.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: isak]
13:58<Lethalman>but never tried to find a solution, always thought: yes maybe everything is overloaded, or whatelse...
13:58-!-isak [~isak@78-73-89-9-no169.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #debian
13:58<Lethalman>lol
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14:00<pipe>Lethalman: Is there anything unusual with this machine, is it a very slow CPU or something?
14:00<Lethalman>pipe, I said amd64 2.4ghz and 512mb ram
14:00<Lethalman>everything works correctly
14:00<pipe>Ah, missed that
14:00<Lethalman>np
14:00<pipe>So hm
14:00<Lethalman>it's just when doing I/O I think
14:00<pipe>512 isn't much these days
14:01<Lethalman>pipe, I know but it always (and still) used to work
14:01<Lethalman>it's not the ram :)
14:01<sney`>should still be fine for using X and grepping something
14:01<sney`>we aren't vista :P
14:01<pipe>Not when using gnome and iceweasel
14:01<pipe>If you've been browsing around a bit etc
14:01<pipe>Because if it's starting to swap, then I suppose you'd see these issues
14:02<Lethalman>pipe, oh yes that might be the reason
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14:02<sney`>ram is cheap
14:02<pipe>Sometimes it's difficult to upgrade :|
14:03<diggy>is your hdd connected to master connector on mb?
14:03<icebrain>if it's like my Desktop, it's terribly difficult: it only uses DDR1 :P
14:03<pipe>Had to search hard to get 8GB that suits this machine
14:03<Lethalman>I don't know sincerely
14:03<ml|>try using just a light wm and see if this happens also with it?
14:04<Lethalman>ml|, i usually use awesome when opening big things
14:04<Lethalman>but gnome is usually ok, except when working with I/O
14:04<Lethalman>I think the problem is with swapping then
14:05<Lethalman>reading from files in ram and back again
14:05<ml|>Lethalman: and samething happens with awesome?
14:05<Lethalman>ml|, when grepping you mean? I'll try
14:05<diggy>and when hdd and cdrom connected to same cable then this can cause some slowness...
14:05<ml|>yes
14:05<ml|>Lethalman: but stop gnome if you are running it to test
14:06<Lethalman>ml|, unfortunately I'm running grep in a gnome terminal
14:06<Lethalman>can't stop it now :)
14:06<diggy>ctrl+alt+bksp?
14:06<ml|>Lethalman: ok, but you see what I'm getting at
14:06<ml|>?
14:06<pipe>diggy: I think he said it was sata
14:07<diggy>mmm
14:07<Lethalman>ml|, not really
14:07<pipe>Difficult to put cd and hd on the same cable ;)
14:07<diggy>i thought ide
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14:07<Lethalman>I could run awesome instead of metacity
14:07<Lethalman>then kill all other gnome stuff
14:08<Lethalman>but I fear that for some reason, now it's >10m it's running :P
14:08<Lethalman>too many things are connected each other these days
14:08<ml|>Lethalman: if it happens with awesome then it might be some swap issue like suggested above, is what I mean
14:08<pipe>I've used dwm on this laptop for quite some time now
14:08<Lethalman>ml|, you mean gnome is getting too heavy for my poor pc?
14:08<pipe>Most everything works
14:08<Lethalman>ml|, otherwise?
14:09<pipe>And compared to dwm, awesome is bloat ;)
14:09<ml|>Lethalman: dunno, but you have 512mb
14:09<Lethalman>pipe, programming it in lua is nice
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14:09<diggy>awesome works quite bad on my laptop, it drop utf in terminal etc error
14:09<pipe>programming in C is nicer
14:09<Lethalman>ml|, it's all swapping now, from $(free) I see no free ram
14:09<pipe>(imho)
14:09<Lethalman>diggy, ah, doesn't happen here weird
14:09<Lethalman>pipe, ehm... yes
14:10<pipe>(since I mostly code for embedded systems)
14:10<diggy>and ctrl+c doesn't work in awesome (gnome-terminal,xterm,uxrvt)
14:10<Lethalman>I like C too but they are two different things... you don't have to recompile everytime first of all
14:10<Lethalman>diggy, why not...
14:11<Lethalman>works here
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14:11<diggy>on kernel 2.6.31 doesn't work, on lower kernel work well
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14:11<Lethalman>uh?
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14:12<diggy>in other WM all is ok(ion3, gnome, etc)
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14:12<lwithers>hi, using debuild my resultant .debs are missing files, despite those files being specified in debian/<package>.install -- what am I doing wrong?
14:12<ml|>C-c works fine in xmonad
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14:13<Lethalman>lwithers, that means nothing... are you using cdbs or what?
14:13<lwithers>nope, I'm using dh_make if that helps
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14:14<Lethalman>lwithers, paste your rules and control
14:15*Lethalman won't open web pages easily right now :P
14:15<lwithers>so where do you want me to paste them then? :)
14:15<Lethalman>lwithers, np paste them I'm not the only one here
14:16<diggy>use pastebin
14:16<ml|>!pastebin
14:16<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: http://paste.debian.net/ http://pastebin.ca/ http://pastie.org/ http://pastebin.com/ or http://picpaste.com/ for pics. Use wikisend.com for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>.
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14:16<lwithers>yes; I know to use a pastebin, but was wondering about the "no web pages" comment
14:17<lwithers>perhaps I should investigate this cdbs first instead
14:17<sney`>lethalman has his own problems
14:17<ml|>was for the list, but yeah
14:17<Lethalman>lwithers, don't care about that comment, just paste them
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14:19<lwithers>rules at http://pastebin.ca/1745856 , control at http://pastebin.ca/1745857
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14:29<Lethalman>lwithers, it's missing many things in binary:
14:29<Lethalman>you used dh_make but weiped out all the debhelper directives, like dh_install
14:29<diggy>does somebody using laptop dell studio 1535?
14:29<Lethalman>that's why nothing is being done
14:29<lwithers>ok, thanks
14:30<Lethalman>get a fresh rules from a dh_make template and start from that
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14:30<themill>lwithers: what's in debian/compat?
14:31<lwithers>themill: 7
14:31<themill>Lethalman: that's a perfectly valid dh7 debian/rules (as long as the upstream makefile is pretty sane and standard)
14:31-!-dr|z3d [~dr|z3d@9YYAABGNR.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:31<themill>(lines 12 and 13 do pretty much everything)
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14:33<themill>lwithers: the lines you added for clean, build and binary are working against debhelper -- you should use target like override_dh_clean to do those steps
14:33<Lethalman>themill, if he's using .install files and no dh_install, I don't think they will ever get installed in debian/tmp
14:34<Lethalman>am I wrong?
14:34<lwithers>themill, thanks, I will try that quickly
14:34-!-khades_ [~khades@92.125.92-130.xdsl.ab.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:34<lwithers>Lethalman: the call to ./make.sh install does put the files into the right places in debian/tmp
14:34<themill>Lethalman: for an autotools project (or something similar), lines 12 and 13 would be enough; dh will do things automagically. this is new with dh7
14:34<themill>http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/debhelper_dh_overrides/
14:35<Lethalman>lwithers, so you have no need of .install
14:35<Lethalman>themill, didn't know about dh sorry
14:36<themill>Lethalman: debhelper has changed a lot from version 5 (which is what it sounds like you are familiar with) to version 7 which lwithers is using.
14:36<Lethalman>I see :O
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14:40<tonguim>Hi all
14:41<tonguim>please how can i check if java virtual machine is installed on my debian 5.0?
14:41<pipe>java -version
14:41<Lethalman>dpkg -l java-runtime
14:41<dpkg>No packages found matching java-runtime
14:41<Lethalman>mh
14:45<tonguim>Lethlman: it seems jvm is not installed on my system. Should i run apt-get install java-virtual-machine to install it?
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14:47<ml|>tonguim: /msg dpkg java and java install
14:47<Lethalman>mh this doesn't work: dpkg-query -f "\${Provides}\n" -W java-runtime
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14:49<tonguim>Lethalman: when i run pkg-query -f "\${Provides}\n" -W java-runtime, the shell only returns to prompt
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14:49<Lethalman>tonguim, do what ml| said
14:49<Lethalman>and follow dpkg instructions
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14:51<tonguim>mlj:
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14:52<tonguim>i didn't understand your command: should i first create msg directory and then run dpkg java?
14:52<themill>dpkg: tell tonguim about install java
14:52<themill>tonguim: dpkg is a bot... she just sent you a message with information
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14:57<tonguim>Has anyone here already installed hot potatoes on lenny?
14:57<pipe>what's that?
14:57-!-cor_r [~cor@p54BED2DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian
14:57<tonguim>a sofware to make QCM and questions
14:58<tonguim>http://hotpot.uvic.ca/index.php#downloads
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14:58*themill suspects that QCM is not "Quartz Crystal Microbalance" ....
14:58<cor_r>!nuke ubuntu
14:58<tonguim>sorry
14:58*dpkg fires a 60 megaton thermonuclear weapon at cor_r
14:59<themill>cor_r: do you have something useful to contribute to #debian?
14:59-!-chealer [~chealer@dsl-69-171-138-96.acanac.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:59<tonguim>QCM refers to Question with Multiple Answers
14:59<cor_r>themill, was just trying the nuke command, but do you?
14:59<pipe>tonguim: I can't see how this is relevant to debian at all, seeing how it's closed software
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15:00<tonguim>just wanted to know if somedy has experienced its installation on lenny
15:00<themill>cor_r: joining a channel just to be noisy isn't really what we're usually looking for around here.
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15:01<pipe>tonguim: I think it's unlikely, that software looks very specialized
15:01<cor_r>themill, im almost 24/7 here, a lil' command try may be forgiven I would have expected, but "sorry" I guess
15:02<pipe>Well, you seem to spend most of that time complaining about ubuntu
15:02<pipe>Maybe that's why themill got annoyed :P
15:02<cor_r>pipe, i didnt hear myself complaining today, and as far as remember ur not the better
15:03<peej>my word, the squeeze netinstall is even better than the lenny install (admiring how it sets up sources.list)
15:03<cor_r>lets stop the flame though
15:03<pipe>peej: nice to see that it improves :)
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15:04<ml|>peej: good to hear, need to try it in a vm :)
15:06<peej>yeah, I've been doing that, stripping to to not even having the standard utilities, and it Just Works. A true labour of love.
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15:08<fcs-deb2>!de
15:08<dpkg>deutschsprachige Hilfe bekommt ihr in #debian.de (auf irc.oftc.net, irc.freenode.net oder irc.belwue.de) - German speaking users please go to #debian.de (on irc.oftc.net, irc.freenode.net or irc.belwue.de).
15:08<edbian>I can't receive mail on my mail server from an external email account. Here is the error: Jan 10 14:02:19 bach postfix/smtpd[2707]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from email.monmouthcollege.org[74.39.212.4]: 554 5.7.1 <ed@ednovak.net>: Relay access denied; from=<ENOVAK@monm.edu> to=<ed@ednovak.net> proto=ESMTP helo=<email.monm.edu>
15:08<edbian>Jan 10 14:02:19 bach postfix/smtpd[2707]: disconnect from email.monmouthcollege.org[74.39.212.4]
15:08<edbian>How can I fix this?
15:09<pipe>fix it by finding a postfix faq
15:09<pipe>and check what "relay access denied" means
15:10<edbian>pipe: I think it's talking about the fact that the email is coming from "email.monmouthcollege.org" but the address is enovak@monm.edu Can I accept relays like this if I configure postfix correctly?
15:10-!-rudi_s_ [~rudi_s@p5DCE4E38.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian
15:11<lwithers>edbian: yes, you can set it up to work correctly; you'll probably need to spend some time with the postfix configuration though. perhaps have a look at http://wiki.debian.org/Postfix
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15:13<edbian>lwithers, Thank you.
15:13-!-snama [~snama@c-4f667eaa-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:16<edbian>Any other suggestions are welcome people! :)
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15:17<tchmnkyz>hey guys, i got a problem with a recent install of mysql
15:17-!-goodger [~ben@host81-152-235-103.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #debian
15:17<tchmnkyz>it seems that the root user is not getting created for some reason
15:17<tchmnkyz>has anyone else seen this recently?
15:18<tchmnkyz>the debian-sys-maint user is there but other then that that is the only user that the installer created...
15:18-!-afurlan [~afurlan@189.34.72.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:18<ml|>tchmnkyz: while you wait for help, checking bts might help
15:19<tchmnkyz>ml|: i did try googling but did not see anything right away
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15:19<ml|>how about bts?
15:19-!-franklin_ [~fpiat@klabs.be] has joined #debian
15:20<tchmnkyz>ok so i see it in bts but do we have a fix yet.
15:21<ml|>that bug report should say
15:21<tchmnkyz>according to this it was reported sept 8th
15:21<tchmnkyz>and yet still exists
15:22<lwithers>themill, thank you for your help with dh_make earlier, I believe I am getting somewhere now
15:22<themill>np
15:22<ml|>and none of the comments are helpful?
15:23<tchmnkyz>there is no comment
15:23<tchmnkyz>just the one person reporting it
15:24<ml|>there might be another that is similar
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15:47-!-mode/#debian [+l 403] by debhelper
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15:56<dready>join channel #backtrack-es
15:56<dready>join #backtrack-es
15:56<dready>join chanel #backtrack-es
15:56<dready>#backtrack-es
15:56*pipe is amused
15:57<edhunter>dready: try /join #chan ;)
15:57<dready>thanks ;)
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16:01<ml|>pipe: easily amused? ;)
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16:01<pipe>ml|: yeah, I'm tired
16:02<mase>anyone experienced with hurd? dont know how to install grub from installer/shell (if even possible)
16:02<pipe>hardcore
16:03<ml|>dpkg: hurd
16:03<dpkg>somebody said hurd was a POSIX compatible collection of servers that run on the GNU Mach microkernel, it is the core of the GNU system, see http://hurd.gnu.org, or a HIRD of Unix-Replacing Daemons. http://www.debian.org/ports/hurd/ for Debian GNU/Hurd or /join #hurd on irc.freenode.net
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16:35<lwithers>ok, building a package which contains both a shared library and an executable linked against that shared library, I'm getting an error from dpkg-shlibdeps
16:36<lwithers>it says it can't find libiso8601.so.1 (which is the library's soname); libiso8601.so.1.5 exists in debian/tmp/usr/lib however
16:36-!-swo [~swo@f052240084.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:37<lwithers>I presume I'm not supposed to create a symlink, since it seems ldconfig should be managing that, but how do I tell dpkg-shlibdeps to look in the right place?
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16:52<lwithers>perhaps a different question -- should I be creating a package which has both a shared library and executables in it? or should I perhaps split the executables out into a -bin ?
16:53<Lethalman>lwithers, split is better
16:53<Lethalman>package, libpackage
16:54<Lethalman>but if the library is only supposed to be used with that package... it's useless
16:54<lwithers>no, there's a C library (which is the main thing) and a couple of utils that link against the C library in the same upstream package
16:54<lwithers>so I guess no issue putting the utils into their own .deb
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16:55<lenin>hello gays
16:56<Lethalman>lwithers, if the stuff is mainly the library then libpackage and libpackage-bin as you said
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16:58<pipe>lenin: I don't think that word means what you think it means
16:58<lwithers>well, it's neater, but I still get the same error
16:58<lwithers>dpkg-shlibdeps: error: couldn't find library libiso8601.so.1 needed by debian/libiso8601-bin/usr/bin/isodate (ELF format: 'elf64-x86-64'; RPATH: '').
16:59<abrotman>!mentors
16:59<dpkg>somebody said mentors was the system that the Debian project uses to train new people to become Debian Developers or Debian Maintainers and get their packages into the Debian archive. Ask me about <nmg> or <mg>. http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/ http://mentors.debian.net/ #debian-mentors on irc.debian.org.
16:59<lwithers>a library with that soname exists
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17:00<pipe>I should release my ultra-minimal socks proxy for debian and others :(
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17:02<witte>does anyone know of a program that makes filenames 'sane' (no whitespace, no accents, no capitals), and this recursive
17:02-!-goodger [~ben@host81-152-235-103.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:02<lwithers>witte: detox
17:03<lwithers>it has a -r option for recursion, too, so "detox -r ." or so
17:03<pipe>nice
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17:03<witte>lwithers: thanks, i knew there must be someone else who had this stupid problem before and who made a nice program out of it!
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17:06<ml|>lwithers: detox is nice thanks
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17:13<PrivateAero>hello all
17:14<PrivateAero>I have a question if anyone is on
17:14<pipe>And if no one is on?
17:15<ml|>!ask
17:15<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
17:15<PrivateAero>well I still have the question but I bet it won't get answered :)
17:16<ml|>just ask, you might be supprised :)
17:16<PrivateAero>lol, here goes
17:16<PrivateAero>its about xirc, how do I change servers from the type line
17:17<abrotman>usually /server irc.newhost.com .. or whatever you want it to be
17:17<PrivateAero>thx alot will do
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17:17<abrotman>or read the documentation for your client
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17:32<fatih>it does not work :S
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17:39<Mish->When PHP through Apache is trying to send email it goes no-where and the error in mail.err is "sendmail[2970]: NOQUEUE: SYSERR(www-data): can not chdir(/var/spool/mqueue-client/): Permission denied" - What would cause this?
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17:40<pipe>well, the error message is quite obvious I think, but I don't know if there's an underlying issue
17:40<mase>pfff, does mailing work via console manually?
17:41<pipe>(the www-data, which i what php runs under, can't access the directory stated)
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17:42<Mish->Yes, it works manually, but what I'm interested in is how/why this could have happened. :)
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17:42<Mish->The rights are the same as an 'identical' server.
17:43<Mish->Lots of hits in google for the exact error, but no solutions
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17:46<mase>strange, my /var/spool/mqueue-client/ has access rights for group "121", but there is no group with this id, but everything works fine...
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17:47<Wilduck>Hey, so I'm setting up a network printer with cups. So far I've gotten it working on a windows 7 box and a debian box. I'm trying to set up an ubuntu box to print now, but I can't even see the printer. I'm asking this here because I was wondering if any settings on my debian setup could cause me to not see this printer on the ubuntu box. If so, what should I change?
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17:48<mase>with "see" you mean cups web interface?
17:48<Wilduck>yes
17:49<mase>same computer than the debian once?
17:50<Wilduck>no, different computer, same printer
17:50<Wilduck>I got it working on the debian box
17:50<mase>directly connected...
17:50<Wilduck>wireless network
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17:51<mase>wireless printer or trying to connect to printer server?
17:51-!-rbellamy [~rbellamy@adsl-68-127-138-161.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #debian
17:51<Wilduck>I've got a wireless printer
17:52-!-cor_r [~cor@p54BED2DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian
17:52<Wilduck>I pointed my browser to localhost:631 for cups
17:52<Wilduck>and clicked "find new printer"
17:52<Wilduck>on the debian box, the printer showed up and everything worked dandy
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17:52<mase>that worked with debian? cool...
17:52<Wilduck>no though, I see nothing
17:52<Wilduck>*now though
17:52<Wilduck>on this ubuntu box
17:53<Wilduck>I'm wondering if something I did on debian made the printer stop broadcasting or something...
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17:56<mase>tried any wlan monitoring tool to just see the printer?
17:56<Wilduck>no, can you suggest one?
17:56<mase>no :D
17:56<mase>but wlan is working at all?
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17:57<Wilduck>yeah, I'm using it to talk to you
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17:57<Wilduck>:0
17:57<mase>ah, ok
17:57<Wilduck>yeah...
17:57<abrotman>Wilduck: shouldn't you ask #ubuntu how to fix ubuntu ?
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17:59<Wilduck>I'm just wondering if it's possible that something I did on my debian box is making this one not see the printer.
17:59<ml|>so localhost... from ubuntu is not working? if not it's either a network issue or ubuntu one I would think
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18:00<mase>i though localhost is working, he just doesn't see the printer
18:00<Wilduck>localhost is working
18:00<abrotman>Wilduck: ask #ubuntu on irc.freenode.net why it's not working
18:00<Wilduck>kay
18:01<Wilduck>thanks for the time mase
18:01<mase>nop, sorry
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18:10<Wilduck>abrotman: I just successfully got a different printer working on this ubuntu box, but still can't see the one I want. Is there any chance that I screwed things up when I set the printer up in debian? #ubuntu is over crowded at the moment. I'd be happy with a yes, no, probably, probably not.
18:10<abrotman>Ubuntu is offtopic in this channel
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18:10<Wilduck>right, I'm not asking for ubuntu troubleshooting
18:11<Wilduck>I just want to know if I should be looking at my debian box for issues
18:11<pipe>sounds unlikely?
18:12<abrotman>it's working?
18:12<Wilduck>in debian, yes
18:13<Wilduck>I'm wondering if I screwed something up with my debian settings
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18:13<Wilduck>making it so other computers can't see the printer
18:13<abrotman>i doubt it
18:13<Wilduck>ok
18:13<Wilduck>there aren't weird sharing options I need to enable?
18:13-!-gdb [~cbell@circe.inetdb.com] has joined #debian
18:13<Wilduck>I checked "share this printer"
18:13<Wilduck>that's the right option, correct?
18:13<abrotman>really, ask #ubuntu why their stuff doesn't work
18:14<abrotman>or hook the printer to the other box and try it directly ..
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18:14<Wilduck>abrotman: I'm asking the experts about linux. I use debian, mys sister uses ubuntu
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18:15<abrotman>we still don't support ubuntu
18:15<Wilduck>yeah I know
18:16<themill>Wilduck: is this printer plugged into a debian box and you're trying to access it from the ubuntu box? or is it a network printer in its own right?
18:16<Wilduck>it's a network printer
18:16<pipe>So basically what you have is a couple of machines that works, one of them debian
18:16<abrotman>then how would Debian mess up the printer ?
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18:17<Wilduck>I don't know, I just wanted to make sure that couldn't be the case before I moved on. I didn't think my question was that involved.
18:17<Wilduck>I'm sorry I'm such a waste of time abrotman
18:17<abrotman>if #ubuntu can't help you, perhaps try ##linux on freenode
18:17<pipe>I already answered, but you kept going
18:17<themill>Wilduck: then I can't see how any config on your debian box could stop you using the printer. Did you have to type in the IP address for CUPS or did CUPS just find the printer automagically
18:17<Wilduck>I'll get out of your hair
18:17<Wilduck>Thank you pipe
18:18<Wilduck>I guess abrotman just got me defensive
18:18<pipe>And my answer is "sounds unlikely", and that's as far as we can get here I think
18:18<Wilduck>you're probably right
18:18<Wilduck>I really do appreciate your time guys
18:18<pipe>Especially if the windows machine can still print...
18:19<Wilduck>truth
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18:19<Wilduck>haven't checked yet, but that'll be a good test
18:19<Wilduck>I'll go continue googling and such
18:19<Wilduck>peace all
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20:13<LjR>Is Debian 6.0 (Squeeze) comparable to Lenny in stability? (As much as a testing release can be?)
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20:22<kilelme>hi
20:22<kilelme>i have some problem
20:23<icebrain>kilelme: hi, what are they?
20:23<kilelme>why i cannot use command make?? when i use configure nothing error
20:23<kilelme>if i use make always say error
20:24<icebrain>kilelme: you're trying to compile and make gives you an error? what error exactly?
20:24<kilelme>error running make install
20:24<kilelme>but configure and make running successfull
20:25-!-jmho [~quassel@port-87-193-192-142.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:25<kilelme>hmm
20:25<kilelme>can you help me
20:25<icebrain>kilelme: oh, ok. It's because "make install" copies files to your system directories, so you need to run it as root. But before you do that, are you sure that app isn't in Debian repositories?
20:26<kilelme>i run it as root
20:26<kilelme>yes, some app not in debian repositories
20:26<icebrain>kilelme: oh! then it's strange. what's the error? just "error running make install" ?
20:27-!-mode/#debian [+l 382] by debhelper
20:27<kilelme>some error say "error running make" and some error running make install
20:27-!-lucascoala [~lucascoal@20158138041.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #debian
20:27<kilelme>i very confused, because my friend have ubuntu and when he compile nothing error happen
20:28<icebrain>can you copy-paste them to pastebin, please?
20:28<icebrain>!paste
20:28<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: http://paste.debian.net/ http://pastebin.ca/ http://pastie.org/ http://pastebin.com/ or http://picpaste.com/ for pics. Use wikisend.com for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>.
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20:28<kilelme>please wait
20:28<edhunter>kilelme: then u are probably missing some dev libraries..
20:28<icebrain>edhunter: according to kilelme, it's an error in "make install", not in make
20:29<kilelme>http://paste.debian.net/56333/
20:29<kilelme>what i missing
20:30<edhunter>icebrain: yes but he also mentioned some error in make so im confused..
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20:30<kilelme>edhunter : what error you need?
20:31<icebrain>kilelme: it's that all it printed?
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20:31<edhunter>kilelme: does running make give you some error?
20:31<kilelme>not
20:31<edhunter>ok. then ignore me :)
20:31<kilelme>i try install gnome-shell with reference http://www.webupd8.org/2009/09/easy-way-to-install-gnome-shell.html
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20:33<kilelme>before that i try install some apps but say error running make install
20:33<kilelme>it's happen to me always i try compile some apps
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20:42<icebrain>kilelme: sorry, I don't know. There was a similar error in gnome-shell according to it's mailing list, but it's been fixed months ago.
20:43<icebrain>kilelme: There is already a gnome-shell package in Debian, but it's only for Squeeze and Sid
20:44<kilelme>yes
20:44<kilelme>i install it
20:44<icebrain>kilelme: oh, aren't you running lenny (stable)?
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20:44<kilelme>but some reference said to have gnome-shell must compile jhbuild
20:44<kilelme>not
20:45<kilelme>i use squeeze
20:45-!-dcraig is now known as Guest1611
20:45<icebrain>kilelme: oh, ok. Then sure, installing from the repositories is always better
20:46<kilelme>okey, i try it
20:47<kilelme>but i want to compile.. because since i use debian i cannot compile one program
20:47<kilelme>^_^
20:47<ravenbird>kilelme: wish I knew
20:47-!-machina [~nanley@lawn-128-61-30-98.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #debian
20:48<edhunter>kilelme: perhaps the whole output of make and make install could be useful..
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20:49<kilelme>but make and make install don't running
20:49<edhunter>kilelme: im sorry but im lost. didnt you say that make runs fine?
20:50<kilelme>yes
20:50<kilelme>my problem when make install
20:51<edhunter>so can u paste like icebrain suggested before the output of both commands?
20:52<kilelme>http://paste.debian.net/56336/
20:53<edhunter>kilelme: and this was make?
20:54<kilelme>yep. sorry but before it was make install
20:55<meatbun>what's the command to print out tcp port?
20:56<edhunter>kilelme: u seem to be missing something ( Pango-1.0.gir ) but i got no clue where to find that..
20:56<ml|>kilelme: do you have build-essential installed?
20:56<kilelme>hmm
20:56<edhunter>meatbun: command to print out tcp port? what do u mean?
20:57<kilelme>how i check i have install build essential?
20:57<meatbun>edhunter: there's a command to print out a list of tcp port for rfc. i forgot
20:57<meatbun>the command
20:57<ml|>aptitude show
20:57<kilelme>nothing show anything
20:57<edhunter>meatbun: sorry no clue..
20:58<abrotman>kilelme: which version of debian ?
20:58<kilelme>squeeze .. ^_^
20:58<ml|>kilelme: aptitude show build-essential should tell you if you have that installed
20:58<abrotman>judd: versions gnome-shell
20:58<judd>abrotman: gnome-shell -- sid: 2.28.1~git20091125-1 squeeze: 2.28.1~git20091125-1
20:59<abrotman>it's already in squeeze
20:59<amphi>kilelme: looks like you need to install gir-repository-dev
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20:59<kilelme>okey i try it amphi
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20:59<ml|>icebrain told him above already
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21:00<amphi>oh well - for some reason, it seems I was believed ;)
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21:01<kilelme>amphi : you promise me, how to make best kernel.. i want to learn it
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21:02<mercutio22>is it possible for me to have external NTFS hard drives to be automounted without having to edit fstab for each foreseable device?
21:02<mercutio22>sorry
21:03-!-edbian [~ed@c-98-228-251-58.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #debian
21:03<kilelme>mercutio : use disk-manager
21:03<mercutio22>automounted with write permissions that is
21:03<mercutio22>kilelme: I mean, automatically
21:03<mercutio22>plug and play
21:03<edbian>If I have a network connection via my eth0 can I use my computer as a router over my wlan0 ??
21:03<kilelme>and use install ntfs-3g
21:04<kilelme>hmm
21:04<edhunter>mercutio22: fstab is not really there for external devices.. kde used to do this here but i havent had an ntfs drive for some time now
21:04<kilelme>ups.. sorry if don't work...... just try to help
21:04<mercutio22>how do the ubuntu people do it?
21:05<mercutio22>kilelme: no man, I appreciate it.
21:05<kilelme>maybe kind of disk-manager with correct driver ntfs
21:05<ml|>mercutio22: ask #ubuntu on freenode
21:06<edhunter>edbian: u want to share ur internet connection via wlan0?
21:06<mercutio22>ml|: I think that comes by default on karmic koala. I'd like to figure out a way to make my debian box behave the same
21:07<kilelme>mount -a??
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21:08<amphi>kilelme: did make work after that?
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21:09<kilelme>yup
21:09<kilelme>thank amphi
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21:10<kilelme>maybe i have restart my machine
21:10<kilelme>be right back guys
21:12<edbian>edhunter, It'd be nice. Do i have to do anything besides NAT via iptables?
21:13<edhunter>edbian: well i would say that ur wlan card needs to support ap mode but im not sure bout that. i only do the opposite. besides that u also need to enable port forwarding in /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
21:14<edbian>edhunter, Ah yes. Thank you for reminding me about port forwarding ;)
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21:37<mercutio22>Are the messages that appear during boot logged somewhere?
21:37-!-rex [~crex@c-24-11-160-22.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:37<ml|>not by default
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21:38<ml|>dpkg: bootlog
21:38<dpkg>methinks bootlogd is disabled by default. Change /etc/default/bootlogd to "Yes" to populate /var/log/boot . For the reason behind the default, see http://bugs.debian.org/213028 (fixed since sysvinit 2.86.ds1-11). Not a command (as opposed to dmesg).
21:38<mercutio22>I'd like to read them but they go by too fast. I tryed to hit pause break to no avail
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21:39<ml|>only use it when needed, read that bug report
21:39<mercutio22>ml|: thanks
21:39<ml|>np
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21:45<mercutio22>cbrb
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22:43<Coburn|MacBook>Hi all
22:43<edhunter>hi Coburn|MacBook
22:44<Coburn|MacBook>I'm having troubles with setting up pure-ftpd in debian. I know I possibly will get told to go away since it's not directly related to debian, but here goes
22:44<Coburn|MacBook>I've done apt-get install pure-ftpd
22:45<Coburn|MacBook>And it's installed the server.
22:45<Coburn|MacBook>I've configured it, added users, put it in standalone mode and now it's not accepting connections.
22:45<Coburn|MacBook>ftp localhost works fine, I can connect
22:46<Coburn|MacBook>but if I ftp to the IP address of the server (10.x.x.100)
22:46<Coburn|MacBook>it doesn't work
22:46<Coburn|MacBook>Mac Terminal Paste:
22:46<Coburn|MacBook>421 Service not available, remote server has closed connection
22:46-!-Guest1613 is now known as dcraig
22:47<Coburn|MacBook>Any ideas?
22:47-!-dcraig is now known as Guest1619
22:49<edhunter>Coburn|MacBook: never used it but im guessing some mistake in the config or something blocking the port
22:52-!-mercutio22 [~mercutio2@201-1-46-2.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #debian
22:53-!-snogglethorpe [~snog@218.231.177.74.eo.eaccess.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:54<jmarsden>Coburn|MacBook: Check that the ftp daemon is actually listening on all addresses not just on localhost.
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22:58<dr|z3d>Coburn|MacBook: Service not available sounds like a server config issue. You're seeing an error message from the server itself.
22:58-!-y2kcorvette [~y2kcorvet@cpe-173-168-175-174.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:59<Coburn|MacBook>Yeah, I think it's causing DNS problems.
22:59<Coburn|MacBook>Looking at the init.d script for it.
22:59<dr|z3d>I was using pureftp the other day.. it seems likely it uses passive port allocations, which means just opening port 21 on your firewall might not be sufficient; I needed to disable the firewall to see successful access.
22:59<Coburn|MacBook>This debian box has no firewall
22:59<Coburn|MacBook>It's a basic lenny install
22:59-!-jcwu [~jcwu@114-137-62-115.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #debian
23:00<Coburn|MacBook>Lighttpd is on Port 80, Pure-FTPd is on Port 21
23:00<Coburn|MacBook>But yeah, it connects fine on localhost (ftp on shell line while in SSH session)
23:00-!-imganquan [~ganquan@117.39.55.14] has quit [Quit: leaving]
23:00<Coburn|MacBook>but not from my MacBook
23:01-!-abrotman [~abrotman@c-71-230-50-249.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:02<Coburn|MacBook>dr|z3d: Do you know how to disable DNS lookup in Pure-FTPd ?
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23:13<mercutio22>I tell gnome to restart the pc and it restarts the session, wht the heck
23:14-!-nosklo [~nosklo@187.20.84.147] has quit [Quit: Saindo]
23:14<Coburn|MacBook>mercuio22: Yeah, common issue. Can be fixed by adding a user to a special group, I forget which one
23:16<mercutio22>Coburn|MacBook: thanks I will look into it
23:17<Coburn|MacBook>Screw this, I give up with PureFTPd
23:17<kop>Coburn|MacBook: Have you tried using passive/active ftp from the client and see if one or the other works.
23:17<kop>Coburn|MacBook: (I prefer vsftpd.)
23:18<Coburn|MacBook>kop: I have my client set on auto.
23:18<Coburn|MacBook>kop: I'll use vsftpd instead, tried and tested
23:18<kop>Coburn|MacBook: Isn't that a binary/ascii sort of setting, not passive/active?
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23:18<Coburn|MacBook>kop: Er.... Maybe
23:19<Coburn|MacBook>Meh, aready did the apt-get --purge remove pure-ftpd
23:19<kop>Coburn|MacBook: Oh well. Anyhow, it could be a firewall on the mac demanding passive ftp.
23:19<Coburn|MacBook>Firewall on my Mac is disabled
23:19<Coburn|MacBook>Firewall: Off
23:19<kop>Coburn|MacBook: You can use a command-line ftp client and check against something on the web.
23:20<kop>Coburn|MacBook: Maybe the client only does one sort?
23:20<Coburn|MacBook>I have used ftp in Mac terminal
23:20<Coburn|MacBook>Yeah, could be
23:20<kop>Coburn|MacBook: "passive" usually toggles.
23:20<Coburn|MacBook>Ok
23:20<kop>Coburn|MacBook: Anyhow, no reason your server should not support both (in the general case).
23:21<Coburn|MacBook>I get what you're saying. I've tried with Opera's ftp://<ip address> and ftp on terminal
23:22<Coburn|MacBook>YES
23:22<Coburn|MacBook>I've hit gold!
23:22<Coburn|MacBook>FTP is talking to my Mac from my Debian Box!
23:22<Coburn|MacBook>Rejoice
23:22-!-isikarianto [~isikarian@ip68-11-234-199.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:22<Coburn|MacBook>Man, I've spent 3 hours searching, fixing, debugging...
23:22<Coburn|MacBook>Ugh
23:23-!-snogglethorpe [~snog@218.231.177.74.eo.eaccess.ne.jp] has joined #debian
23:23<Coburn|MacBook>lolwut ... server is anonymous only
23:23<kop>Coburn|MacBook: What made it work?
23:23<Coburn|MacBook>I switched over to vsftpd
23:23<Coburn|MacBook>and bang, worked just like that
23:24<kop>Coburn|MacBook: :-P (I did mess with PureFTP once and had headaches and decided on vsftpd, so....)
23:24<Coburn|MacBook>I must admit
23:25<Coburn|MacBook>Linux is like a drug. Once you use it, you'll start using it for everything
23:25<kop>Coburn|MacBook: That's because it's a true "platform". You _can_ use it for everything. :-)
23:26<Coburn|MacBook>Windows is like sex; do it wrong and you get crippled and hacked until your computer screams "Put Debian on meeeeee"
23:26<kop>Coburn|MacBook: And the investment in knowledge is persistant; a sysadm from 1972 would still feel comfortable today.
23:26<kop>Coburn|MacBook: (Just don't forget to leave comments in your config files so you remember _why_ you did something.)
23:27<Coburn|MacBook>Yeah, indeed, Linux may have Unix roots or parts "borrowed" from Unix, but you can do stuff in linux that will work in Unix and vice versa
23:28<Coburn|MacBook>kop: Debian is my weapon of choice, however, I think that many people see Debian has a OS for hardcore people... If Debian had a installer like Windows's installer, it would be sweeter and easy to install
23:29<kop>Coburn|MacBook: It's basically the same thing (code excepted). The analysts separete Linux out into it's own category only to make Microsoft look better. Otherwise they'd be in last place. And most of the analysts make their money supporting MS Windows in some way.
23:29-!-mercutio22 [~mercutio2@201-1-46-2.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
23:30<Coburn|MacBook>kop: I personally want to see the day when Microsoft declares Windows sucks
23:30<kop>Coburn|MacBook: It's got a nice GUI. But it'll never be a Windows Installer because Windows is so "simple" it nukes the whole HD and gobbles it up. As soon as a question is asked installing will be "too complicated" for the average user. (And he shouldn't be installing anyway.)
23:31<kop>Coburn|MacBook: Never. They'll crash and burn and the pieces will pick up and keep on going and they'll pretend it didn't happen.
23:31<Coburn|MacBook>kop: Smashed Glass... Hehe
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23:32<kop>Coburn|MacBook: It'll happen quick, like GM, and will be hard to see coming.
23:33-!-alephnull [~alok@122.172.6.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:33<Coburn|MacBook>kop: I personally think one day, Windows will hit a brick wall due to the fundamentals of DOS
23:34-!-sansen_ [~san@190.245.76.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:34<Coburn|MacBook>kop: DOS is still running Windows today, Windows runs on the NT Kernel which is DOS, only prettified
23:34<kop>Coburn|MacBook: No, due to fundimentals of being driven by the marketing department. (But this is offtopic.)
23:34<Coburn|MacBook>kop: True.
23:34<Coburn|MacBook>kop: I'm actually going to run Debian on my HP Jornada 720 for some fun
23:34<launch>what do you think about google book. is it correct? or we should not use it
23:35-!-adb [~adb@144.85.45.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:35<Coburn|MacBook>launch: Google Book?
23:35<launch>yep
23:35<launch>Coburn|MacBook, Hp jornada 720 is so cute
23:36<Coburn|MacBook>My personal opinion, if anything can be hacked, it can run Debian. And that's that.
23:36<kop>Coburn|MacBook: Or emdebian.
23:36<Coburn|MacBook>That too
23:37*Coburn|MacBook is researching emdebian
23:37-!-simplechat [~simple@123-243-79-139.tpgi.com.au] has joined #debian
23:38<launch>The Google Chrome OS run under a Debian?
23:39<Coburn|MacBook>Google Chrome OS is based on the evil Ubuntu, which likes to take aim at Debian and try to knock it off it's perch
23:39-!-launch [~launch@modemcable064.240-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
23:39<Coburn|MacBook>>_>
23:39<Coburn|MacBook>Why'd he quit when I just wrote my message.
23:40<Coburn|MacBook>Anyway... Looks like vsftpd is a go-er
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23:43<kop>Coburn|MacBook I use spamassassin, but only for marking. I use bogofilter for my real filter. No false positives and works really well after training.
23:43<simonrvn>um, so does spamassassin..
23:46<kop>simonrvn: I suppose. But I want spamassassin for it's regular rules and something else for baysen (sp?) training. That way I can use the training part for rejection and avoid false positives. (There's probably a way to do this with spamassassin, because it does everything, but this seems simpler.) It's also easier to integrate bogofilter with my email client to send it stuff for training. (But that's probably because I did it years ago and haven't thought
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23:47<kop>It's a dirty shame that there's no handy way to integrate email clients into external baysian filters.
23:48<simonrvn>bayesian
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23:49<simonrvn>use what you want but i'm just pointing out that they both have bayesian type scanning/training. if you have an easier time with bogofilter then use it =).
23:50<kop>simonrvn: Bayseian. Thanks. Yeah -- I just keep thinking I shouldn't have to roll my own integration. (Someone needs to write a "hotplug" like document to spur an interface.)
23:51<simonrvn>most clients nowadays have hooks into one or several anti-spam apps
23:52<simonrvn>if they don't some can be scripted or configured with it
23:53<kop>simonrvn: I'll have to pay attention again someday. (Yeah, I scripted my own with balsa and dropping stuff into particular mailboxes to add/remove from the spam set.) It just seems like there should be some common approach so any mail client works with any filter.
23:53<kop>simonrvn: I'm not so happy with balsa, but I'm too lazy to change.
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23:55<simonrvn>i use mutt and tb3
23:55<astronut>can anyone get hulu to work on amd64 w/ 64 bit flash? i'm seeing a thread in the support forum that looks like i'm not the only one who can't - it seems to have broken about 2 days ago
23:56<dr|z3d>kop: Now's a good time to give Thunderbird a spin.. version 3 really has upped the ante.
23:57<Coburn|MacBook>I'll be back later guys and girls... I need to stretch.
23:57<kop>Thanks all. Gotta go.
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---Logclosed Mon Jan 11 00:00:09 2010