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#debian IRC Logs for 2010-03-08

---Logopened Mon Mar 08 00:00:01 2010
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00:01<dext_hack>hello
00:01<bja>!ask
00:01<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
00:02<dext_hack>ok i am running back track 4 on vm work station and its running vary slow any answers?
00:03<bja>!backtrack
00:03<dpkg>BackTrack is a Linux distribution based on <Ubuntu> Intrepid (as of BackTrack 4), previously <SLAX>. Derived from merging two penetration-testing distributions: WHAX (formerly WHOPPIX) and Auditor Security Linux. It is not supported in #debian. http://www.backtrack-linux.org/ #backtrack-linux on irc.freenode.net. See also <based on debian>.
00:03<dext_hack>thanks
00:03<bja>2yw
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00:37<meglaw>morrn
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00:47<hachi>what's the name of the package archive where I can look up things by date, sorta?
00:48<hachi>I'm looking for an old version of libperl-dev, 5.8.8-12 in particular
00:48<gsimmons>dpkg: tell hachi -about sdo
00:50<hachi>might wanna update that factoid to not say "unmaintained" and instead say "gone"
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00:52<hachi>hang on wait... the factoid says unmaintained about the one that is still up
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00:52<hachi>and recommends I use one that doesn't even have a DNS entry
00:52<hachi>the dev one is up though, so whooo
00:52<gsimmons>hachi: What part of "soon to be" is not clear?
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00:55<hachi>ooops, the part where I didn't translate it correctly in my head
00:55<hachi>sorry
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02:51*casa_is_not_here is away: Zurzeit abwesend
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02:54<weasel>casa_is_not_here: torn that off.
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02:54<weasel>casa_is_not_here: both the nick change and the public message.
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03:12<jae>You know what's annoying about Debian? Things like this: http://bugs.debian.org/572031
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03:13<babilen_zzz>jae: no need to spam the channels - bugs happen and the issue is fixed upstream
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03:22<jmm>hi.
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04:13<sawyer>hey all
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04:13<jmm>hi.
04:13<sawyer>i was wondering if there was any specific application to do an automatic shutdown when the comp has been idle for a while.
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04:14<sawyer>perhaps any way to configure X or GNOME for this.
04:14<jmm>umm isn't shutting down a bit strong ?
04:14<babilen>sawyer: How do you define "idle" ?
04:14<sawyer>babilen, for instance when i go to sleep
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04:15<sawyer>actually, scratch that, i'll depict it better
04:15<babilen>alright :)
04:15<sawyer>if i watch a movie, when i'm done watching the movie, i want it to shut down
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04:15<sawyer>perhaps this could be done using the application, but if there was a way the window manager could handle this.. (though i don't know how)
04:15<jmm>mplayer foo.avi ; shutdown -h now
04:15<jmm>:)
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04:15<sawyer>hehe
04:16<jmm>I guess you can make some shortcut if you want to do it from gnome.
04:16<jmm>replacing mplayer, by your favorite player.
04:16<sawyer>but that won't work for GUI, i'd probably have to create a bash script that wraps the mplayer command and then associate all video files with it, but that's a hassle
04:17<sawyer>a shortcut to what?
04:17<babilen>sawyer: You can configure gnome-power-manager to put the computer to sleep when it is idle for a while (gnome-power-preferences) - not sure if it is possible to shut it down.
04:17<jmm>a shortcut to the mplayer command. hehe I'm not very good with GUI.
04:18<sawyer>i understood that "sleep mode" isn't really healthy to the computer or the operating system
04:18<babilen>sawyer: But given that shutting down the system might lead to data loss - I would suggest to either let it sleep or hibernate
04:18<babilen>sawyer: Why would that be?
04:18<sawyer>i'm not sure
04:18<sawyer>it's writing all the memory to disk, no?
04:18<sawyer>would it be able to retrieve everything without loss of pointers, etc.?
04:19<sawyer>seems like risky business, but i might just be ignorant in that regard
04:19<jm_>yes
04:19<babilen>no - that's hibernate not suspend (i.e. sleep)
04:19<sawyer>hmm.. i'm confused
04:20<babilen>sawyer: You can either: (i) hibernate the computer (RAM content is written to disk and read into RAM if you start again) and (ii) RAM content is left as it is and the RAM is constantly powered during sleep
04:20<babilen>the latter being "suspend" or "sleep"
04:20<sawyer>oh
04:21<sawyer>so hibernate is the one i fear
04:21<sawyer>(perhaps without just)
04:21<jm_>there's nothing to fear about it
04:21<babilen>both work fine, the difference is that your system will survive a power outage if you hibernate and the RAM content is lost if you suspend
04:22<babilen>sawyer: both work well - resume from hibernation takes longer than resume from suspend
04:22<babilen>sawyer: The only thing that might go wrong is when you resume a hibernated system with a different kernel version (you are warned about that risk though)
04:23<sawyer>babilen, interesting... i think i'll pick the gnome sleep on idle in the power management preferences interface
04:23<sawyer>thank you both babilen and jm_ :)
04:23<babilen>:)
04:23<sawyer>and jmm
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04:25<jmm>:)
04:26<icebrain>babilen: when I do that it just warns me, and after a reboot and proper kernel selection it works fine
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04:32<spons>back
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04:32<spons>works i think
04:32<spons>thanks
04:33<spons>now lets solve the auto mount ntfs drives:p.. stupid passwords everywhere
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04:36<spons>solved
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05:01<prem>hi all..
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05:02<prem>I have downloaded a .mkv file using vuze in lenny..but after the downlaod the "Audio/Video" info of the file shows nothing
05:02<prem>everything is given as 0 / Null..
05:02<prem>why is it so..?now i cant play the file also..
05:02<prem>how to play a .mkv fiel format in debian
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05:07<babilen>prem: You could try vlc/mplayer from debian-multimedia ("/msg dpkg dmm") - not sure if that will help you though as it could also be a corrupted file
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05:08<prem>babilen, am sure.,it is a 2GB movie file..but I am surprised..the Audio/video tab in Properties box is showing nothing..
05:08<prem>is there anyway to fix it..?
05:08<prem>babilen, i did tried with both vlc and mplayer but didnt help
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05:09<babilen>prem: from dmm?
05:10<prem>no i installed from mainstream..pacakges.debian
05:10<prem>is there a big diff between these repos..? babilen
05:11<babilen>It *might* work with mplayer or vlc from dmm - they are compiled with more (non-free) codecs and it could be due to that. But could you try playing the movie from the command line with "vlc <movie>" and paste the output to a pastebin?
05:11-!-MeCooL [mecool@94.128.79.173] has joined #debian
05:11<babilen>!dmm
05:11<dpkg>i heard dmm is Debian Multimedia, a repository of unofficial Debian packages, not in Debian for patent-related reasons, maintained by Christian Marillat. For information on how to use this repository, see http://debian-multimedia.org/ or ask me about <dmm lenny> <dmm squeeze>.
05:11*MeCooL i`m back
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05:17<prem>well babilen ..vlc from command line is not throwing any error..jus simply playing..but with no audio and no video..
05:17<prem>anyway i will install from dmm and check
05:17<babilen>do that - it might work
05:17<babilen>prem: try mplayer as well
05:17<prem>k babilen
05:17<babilen>good luck :)
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05:33<Rafts>hi good day
05:33<Rafts>is there somebody who can help me?
05:33<babilen>no
05:33<Rafts>;P thank you
05:33<babilen>in other words: Just ask :)
05:34<Rafts>a little problem in my debian lenny server..
05:34<babilen>pray continue ...
05:34<Rafts>i can't update it.. with aptitude update
05:34<Rafts>can't connect on servers of sources.list
05:35<babilen>could you paste the output of "aptitude update" to a pastebin (http://paste.debian.net)
05:35<babilen>have you tried other mirrors?
05:36<Rafts>getted from here.. http://www.sourceslist.eu/sourcesdebianlenny.list
05:37<Rafts>http://paste.debian.net/63163
05:37<Rafts>here u are
05:37<babilen>Rafts: That sources.list is a complete mess and i'm not willing to support it
05:37<babilen>!sources.list
05:37<dpkg>The list of repositories for installing packages is /etc/apt/sources.list and has lines like "deb http://ftp.<cc>.debian.org/debian lenny main" and "deb http://security.debian.org/ lenny/updates main" where <cc> is your country code. Be sure to run "aptitude update" after editing sources.list. Also see <mirrors> <apt-spy> <lenny security> <testing security> "man sources.list" and /usr/share/doc/apt/examples/sources.list
05:37<themill>Whoever wrote that sources.list needs to get a clue
05:37<babilen>Rafts: Start with the sources.list outlined above - and come back
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05:44<Rafts>sorry -- here iam
05:45<Rafts>ok..
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05:47<Rafts>interesting.. now it work! ;) thanks
05:49<Rafts>W: There is no public key available for the following key IDs:
05:49<Rafts>9AA38DCD55BE302B
05:49<Rafts>W: GPG error: http://security.debian.org lenny/updates Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 9AA38DCD55BE302B
05:49<Rafts>W: You may want to run apt-get update to correct these problems
05:49-!-Rafts was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
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05:49<Rafts>sorry
05:50<themill>dpkg: tell Rafts about new archive key
05:50<Rafts>This is the error--- http://paste.debian.net/63166
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05:50<babilen>Rafts: Please use an official sources.list as exemplified in /usr/share/doc/apt/examples/sources.list and follow the factoid dpkg just told you about
05:51<Rafts>...interesting bot :)
05:51<themill>(except change "stable" to "lenny" in that example)
05:51<babilen>^^^^^ *important* ^^^^^
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05:54<Rafts>i debian-archive-keyring <-- seems to be installed..
05:54<Rafts>to upload a new key?
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05:55<rolnikov>Hi
05:55-!-feng [~ubuntuuse@118.113.89.11] has joined #debian
05:55<babilen>welcome
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05:56<rolnikov>Can anybody explain me why aptitude prints me 'no candidate version found for icedove-3.0' if i use squezee
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05:56<rolnikov>it complete me its package name when i press Tab
05:57<babilen>rolnikov: That package is in experimental and you should not use it
05:57<rolnikov>does fact that i use amd64 distribution can impact it ?
05:58<rolnikov>oh
05:58<rolnikov>so why bash completes me its name ?
05:58<rolnikov>hmm
05:58<babilen>rolnikov: See the output of "apt-cache policy" and "apt-cache policy icedove-3.0"
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05:58<babilen>rolnikov: I guess that you have/had experimental in your sources.list (maybe deb-src only)
05:59<rolnikov>hmm i'll check it
05:59<rolnikov>apt-cache policy icedove-3.0 gives me :
05:59<rolnikov>icedove-3.0: Installed: (none) Candidate: (none) Version table:
05:59<babilen>!pastebin
05:59<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: http://paste.debian.net/ http://pastebin.ca/ http://pastie.org/ http://pastebin.com/ or http://picpaste.com/ for pics. Use wikisend.com for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>.
06:00<babilen>rolnikov: You could paste your sources.list - and the output of "apt-cache policy" ...
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06:02<rolnikov>http://paste.debian.net/63167/
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06:02<rolnikov>i have one entry with experimentAL...
06:02<rolnikov>i'll remove it and check again
06:02<babilen>Rafts: Please don't /msg me or other people in this channel if they haven't expressed their approval
06:03<babilen>Rafts: Stop it
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06:03<babilen>!tell Rafts -about msg
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06:03<Rafts>sorry..
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06:04<rolnikov>http://paste.debian.net/63168/
06:04<babilen>Rafts: Read the pastebin factoid above and paste your errors - and *ask* *in* *the* *channel*
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06:06<babilen>rolnikov: sources.list + "apt-cache policy" (look! there is no "icedove-3.0" in that command)
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06:06<babilen>rolnikov: But you shouldn't install that package anyway ...
06:06<Rafts>http://paste.debian.net/63169/
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06:07<rolnikov>babilen: ok, i understand You, but its confusing when bash completes me packages names which i can not instal
06:09<babilen>rolnikov: As i said: It might be due to the fact that you had experimental in your sources.list and that package name is therefore known to exist
06:09<babilen>rolnikov: Not sure how to update the list of installable packages for bash-completion though - sorry
06:09<rolnikov>spox
06:09<rolnikov>no problem, thanks for advice
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06:11<Rafts>babilen: when try to update key.. http://paste.debian.net/63169/
06:12<babilen>Rafts: Do you use the official sources.list now?
06:12<Rafts>yes
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06:13<babilen>Rafts: Install/Update the debian-archive-keyring (you might get an error - ignore it *this time) or use a different keyserver
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06:16<hendry>where has dos2unix gone? http://packages.qa.debian.org/s/sysutils.html
06:16<koollman>hendry: tofrodos
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06:21<rolnikov>quit
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06:32<hever>Wasn't there a tool to parse the commandline history? I'm for example looking for a special command I executed in the past and I'm going to find it fast
06:32<petemc>^ r
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06:32<jm_>modern shell also have keybindings which trigger history search etc.
06:33<petemc>thats what control r does
06:33<petemc>as im sure you know jm_
06:33<jm_>ahh that was ctrl-r, i thourgh your'e referring to the ^ or r built-ins ;)
06:33<jm_>petemc: see above
06:33<hever>whow thats really helpfull, thank you !
06:34<petemc>jm_: :)
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06:38<hever>petemc, are there search place holders or a regexp engine ?
06:39<hever>I'm looking for command and a special argument
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06:40<babilen>hever: Not sure if Bash supports that, but you can always grep within ~/.bash_history
06:41<hever>well thats the best
06:41<babilen>(assuming that the command has already been written to that file)
06:41<jm_>you can use fc to search for a regex
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06:41<babilen>jm_: +1
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06:47<Guest3>we are currently looking at alternatives to LIDS and have narrowed it down to SELinux, OSSEC or GRSec. anyone have any reason why we should choose OSSEC. or for that matter why we should even give up LIDS?
06:47<prahal>Guest3, there is also tomoyo
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06:49<slydder1>prahal: would tomoyo work within a vserver or openvz container?
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06:50<prahal>good catch . That remains to be checked
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06:50<slydder1>that's the main problem we are facing with LIDS and the only reason we are considering the move to ossec
06:50<slydder1>however. ossec has no mac and root restrictions that we would like to see.
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06:51<slydder1>at least I haven't found any mention of such for ossec in any of the reading I have done.
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07:04<ottoshmidt>what's the difference between aptitude clean and aptitude autoclean?
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07:05<locklace>man aptitude
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07:07<ottoshmidt>locklace, autoclean explanation is ambiguous for me that's why asked here
07:07<slydder1>dpkg aptitude
07:07<dpkg>methinks aptitude is a terminal-based package manager that can be used in a command-line mode (aptitude install foo ; aptitude remove goo) as well as a text user interface mode (just run "aptitude"). Ask me about <why aptitude> <why not aptitude> <aptitude-fu> or see http://wiki.debian.org/Aptitude
07:07<slydder1>ahh
07:08<babilen>ottoshmidt: autoclean keeps certain packages - for example the ones that are currently installed, so that you can reinstall them without having to download them first
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07:08<babilen>ottoshmidt: (because the currently installed ones are still downloadable)
07:08<ottoshmidt>babilen, thanks
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07:09<babilen>ottoshmidt: I would just use "autoclean" once in a while ... Which version of Debian are you running?
07:09<babilen>ottoshmidt: Disregard that question ...
07:09<ottoshmidt>sid/squeeze
07:10<babilen>it might be handy to have "old" packages around ... you can get them from snapshots though too
07:10<ottoshmidt>man page said "Removes any cached packages which can no longer be downloaded. This
07:10<ottoshmidt> allows you to prevent a cache from growing out of control over time
07:10<ottoshmidt> without completely emptying it.
07:10<babilen>yes
07:10<ottoshmidt>"Can no longer be downloaded" - was unclear for me at once
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07:11<babilen>ottoshmidt: If a new version of a package is released the old one is no longer "downloadable" (from the mirrors)
07:12<ottoshmidt>I see now :)
07:12<babilen>ottoshmidt: So you'll basically delete all packages that you had installed once, but have been upgraded to a new version
07:12<babilen>ottoshmidt: As i said - it might still be a good idea to have old versions laying around in case something breaks your sid
07:13<[fFf]>Hi, is there anyone of the DSA team?
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07:17<maxp>Hi ! :)
07:17-!-user52562 [~user52562@79.112.18.217] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
07:17<maxp>I have a problem
07:18<maxp>I have installed 4GB in my laptop
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07:18<maxp>install linun-image-bigmem
07:18<maxp>uname -r shows: 2.6.26-2-686-bigmem
07:18<maxp>but debian (lenny) sees only 3.3GB
07:18<maxp>should I set some flag somewhere to enable 4GB ?
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07:20<babilen>[fFf]: why?
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07:21<jm_>maxp: which HIGHMEM option does bigmem enable? grep HIGHMEM /boot/config-$(uname -r)
07:21<maxp>ee ?? I have only installed this bigmem image :)
07:22<jm_>so run the command to see which kernel options are enabled ...
07:23<maxp>it says:
07:23<maxp># CONFIG_NOGHIGHMEM is not set
07:23<maxp># CONFIG_HIGHMEM4G is not set
07:23<Rafts>babilen: i was at lunch.. debian-archive-keyring is installed..
07:23<maxp>CONFIG_HIGHMEM64G=y
07:23<jm_>so it's the right option
07:23<maxp>CONFIG_HIGHMEM=y
07:24<maxp># CONFIG_DEBUG_HIGHMEM is not set
07:24<babilen>Rafts: up-to-date?
07:24<maxp>perhaps I should set this CONFIG_HIGHMEM4G ?
07:24<jm_>naah, 64G option should do it
07:24<babilen>maxp: Have you booted the -bigmem kernel? (Just checking :)
07:24<maxp>yes
07:25<jm_>babilen: presumably yes, otherwise uname -r would not pick up this config file
07:25<maxp>it is on the first position in GRUB and my VM does not work now :)
07:25<erik>will debian use upstart?
07:25<maxp>dont know :(
07:25<jm_>maybe check if there's anything in dmesg output about it
07:25<babilen>jm_: Ah i see it in my backlog now - just continue ;)
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07:26<babilen>erik: Read "The future of the boot system in Debian
07:26<icebrain>erik: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2009/09/msg00003.html
07:26<jm_>I used to use custom compiled kernel with 32bit release and HIGHMEM64G enabled and it showed all of the memory IIRC, but I have disabled it later on, will check what my bro's machine shows
07:26<babilen>erik: on the debian-devel- ^^^^
07:27<erik>babilen, that was a long time ago....
07:27<babilen>erik: So?
07:28<icebrain>erik: Sep 2009, how is that a long time?
07:28<erik>things change in 6 months, but hey what should I say when you link a 2 page mail from a 4 word question..
07:28<babilen>erik: It's the information you asked for and the official announcement - what more can you ask for?
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07:29<babilen>erik: You can use dependency based boot in squeeze/sid ... It will be part of the next release and well ... what else is there to say?
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07:33<maxp>must reboot :/
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07:33<erik>babilen, While very thankfull for the link, it would have been nice to answer the question as well. :-)
07:35<babilen>erik: <quote>The planned time frame for this is to replace /sbin/init with upstart
07:35<babilen>for Squeeze, and see if we manage to change the very early boot to
07:35<babilen>become event based in time for Squeeze too
07:35<babilen></quote>
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07:36<babilen>erik: Just read the announcement
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07:38<maxp>tell, command top will see 4GB or not ?
07:38<maxp>I have changed CONFIG_HIGHMEM4G=y
07:39<maxp>and comment config for 64G but still nothing
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07:43<erik>anyways I asked because I just used upstart today on Ubuntu, and you really need to know about it since /etc/rc*.d still exists.
07:43<erik>babilen: I have too little time to read it :-) My daughter wakes up every minute, so I just finnished reading it, thanks for the quote.
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07:43<jm_>maxp: that config file is what was used when the kernel was built, you can change it all you want and changes won't have any effect
07:44<maxp>jm_: so I should then recompile it, right ?
07:44<maxp>is it hard to do ? :D
07:44<jm_>maxp: yes, but it's mostly pointless since it's already using the right options
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07:44<maxp>even htop shows 3.3 :(
07:44<maxp>btw. my bios sees 4GB
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07:45<erik>maxp, grep MemTot /proc/meminfo
07:45<jm_>i'll check on my brothers machine later today, he recently bought another 2G so we shall see
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07:46<maxp>erik: 3367236 KB
07:46<maxp>3368236 KB*
07:47<maxp>maybe I should install 64bit version of lenny ?
07:47<babilen>you can try the 64bit kernel with 32bit userland
07:47<erik>maxp, are you sure it's not used by something elsed
07:48<jm_>well that should help, or or simply use the amd64 kernel first
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07:48<maxp>even if I have intel CPU ? (dual core)
07:48<jm_>yes
07:48<erik>http://madduck.net/blog/2009.11.18:ram-reclaimed-mystery-solved/
07:48<babilen>!why amd64
07:48<dpkg>The Debian architecture that runs on 64-bit processors from AMD and Intel is called "amd64" because the architecture was first developed by AMD. AMD64 is variously known as x86-64, x64, IA-32e, EM64T, EMT64 and Intel 64 (most of which are the Intel marketing people changing their mind). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64.
07:48<maxp>ok, will try :)
07:49<jm_>i think that madduck post was for a full 64bit release
07:49<erik>quote "Despite the 4× 1Gb RAM modules I added, the BIOS (and Linux) only sees 3072 Mb. " aah sorry also bios
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07:50<jm_>so it was a matter of using the remap option in the BIOS - not quite sure if this applies to 32bit releases
07:50<BlackFate>erik, if bios only reports 3gb then you should check your hardware
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07:51<babilen>erik said that the BIOS sees 4GB
07:51<ml|>maxp: are you sure your laptop supports 4gb of memory; some mobo bios do not; dos it show full 4gb in bios?
07:51<maxp>I'm wondering what will stop work when I run 64-bit core :D
07:51<BlackFate>ah soz.. then its 32bit of you linux that on sees 3gb
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07:51<maxp>I have checked that. bios sees 4GB
07:51<ml|>ah, just saw nevermind
07:51<jm_>maxp: in the past iptables didn't work
07:51<maxp>wireless card ? :D
07:51<erik>I have no such problem I've been using 64GB on servers since 2005. :-)
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07:52<maxp>ok, truth time - reboot :)
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07:52<jm_>speaking of this - I wonder if it's feasible to convert 32bit installation to a 64bit one without reinstall
07:52<BlackFate>erik, yes but if you use 32bit systems you sould compile kernel with high memory support OR install 64bit system
07:52<erik>jm_, chroot
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07:52<jm_>erik: yeah I was thinking debootstrap and then reinstall existing packages
07:53<erik>BlackFate, indeed
07:53<jm_>I will test this procedure if I get new workstation soon
07:53<babilen>jm_: It's not - there is a guide somewhere but it has *WARNING* and *DANGEROUS* written all over it. The people who tried it failed miserably most of the time
07:53<jm_>babilen: hehe
07:54<babilen>jm_: That was switching a live system though and not a debootstrapped new installation and a switch
07:54<jm_>what's one more failed attempt when someone pays you to do it
07:54<BlackFate>erik, 32bit with high mem support is said to have speed regressions, but i dont think it is noticeable
07:54<erik>Just boot a 64bit kernel and to a chroot install. no problem.
07:55<jm_>indeed, that's what my plan says - boot 64bit grml, debootstrap 64bit release over 32bit one, reinstall the rest
07:55<jm_>or is instead of says
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07:56<jm_>i'll search for that dangerous post when this becomes reality (i.e. when my order is approved)
07:57<babilen>jm_: http://teddyb.org/~rlpowell/hobbies/debian_arch_up/
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07:58<jm_>babilen: thanks
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08:03<maxp>ok, its getting strange
08:04<maxp>on amd64 still 3.3G and my iwl3945 does not want to connect to net :/
08:04<jm_>interesting, did you check for any remap options in the BIOS?
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08:05<maxp>yes, but can't find anything about it
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08:23<anna>http://imgnow.info/03-07-10-boobs.jpg/ do my boobs look small? lol
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08:24<OdyX>!spam
08:24<dpkg>i heard spam is a preferred environment. SPAM; Shut up, You damn Vikings! SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM, to destroy it, try <spamassassin> (spamd+spamc), <razor>/<pyzor>, <crm114> (but be ready to train it for a week), <dspam>, http://www.craphound.com/spamsolutions.txt . See also <greylisting>, <list spam>.
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08:24<b2man>hali
08:25<b2man>van itt valaki aki tud magyarul?
08:25<jm_>!hu
08:25<dpkg>somebody said hu was Ha magyarul beszelsz kerlek probald a #debian.hu -t.
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08:29<[fFf]>babilen: I'd like to contribute to Debian in this way
08:30-!-hatoon [~musis@187.111.253.180] has quit []
08:31<babilen>[fFf]: are you a DD/DM?
08:31<[fFf]>babilen: no
08:31<babilen>[fFf]: Read: http://www.debian.org/security/faq
08:31<[fFf]>babilen: need to be_
08:32<babilen>[fFf]: The easiest way would be to fix bugs, contribute patches or have your packages sponsored by DDs/DMs
08:32<[fFf]>I'm not a programmer
08:32<[fFf]>I'm a sysadm
08:32<jm_>not all tasks require programming skills
08:33<jm_>and even many sysadmins have some programming skills
08:33<babilen>I would suggest to write to the debian-security mailing list and ask how you could help
08:33<[fFf]>I know some programming languages but I work mainly on production servers
08:33<[fFf]>DSA and security team aren't they different?
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08:35<[fFf]>babilen: is the correct path to became a Debian system administrator?
08:35-!-ak [~leon@ppp95-165-180-40.pppoe.spdop.ru] has joined #debian
08:35<babilen>I don't quite understand ... You mean someone who is an administrator *within* the Debian project?
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08:36<babilen>[fFf]: Just ask on that ML. The right people will read your mail and guide you
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08:36<[fFf]>I mean http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DSA
08:36<babilen>[fFf]: It's a long way to become a member of the DSA
08:37<[fFf]>I've no time costraints...
08:37<[fFf]>:-)
08:37<babilen>[fFf]: then "Find a task in the request-tracker and send a patch"
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08:38<babilen>the request tracker is login-only though
08:38<[fFf]>yes
08:38<babilen>I would ask on that ML - they'll know
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08:39<babilen>or ask in #debian-security
08:39<[fFf]>asked some ours ago, now I'm waiting
08:41<[fFf]>what do you think requirements are? LDAP, bash scripting, Perl, Puppetd, postfix, apache...?
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08:46<babilen>[fFf]: jesus - complete brainfuck. I parsed "DSA" as "Debian Security Advisory" and not "Debian System Administrators"
08:47<[fFf]>:-)
08:47<[fFf]>I suspected something similar...
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08:55<babilen>[fFf]: http://dsa.debian.org/dsablog/ ask on the debian-admin ML and/or on #debian-devel for guidance
08:55<babilen>[fFf]: knowledge of puppet would be good (see first post)
08:56<[fFf]>ok
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08:56<babilen>(second post rather)
08:56<[fFf]>I've read the blog yet
08:57<[fFf]>do you think #debian-devel would be a good starting point?
08:57<babilen>ask there if you are interested in "accepting the mission" :)
08:58<[fFf]>ok
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09:11<hatoon>anybody here already install the wireless on dell vostro?
09:11<babilen>it's possible
09:11<avu>if by 'install the wireless' you mean 'use the wifi' then yes
09:11<avu>for me, it just works, I'm using squeeze though, not lenny
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09:12<babilen>hatoon: paste the output of "lspci -nn|grep -i network" please
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09:12<hatoon>ok
09:13<babilen>since it's one line you can just paste it in here :)
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09:13<hatoon>atheros ar5001
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09:13<hatoon>babilen,
09:14<babilen>that's not the complete output
09:15<hatoon>and an atheros 5001
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09:17<babilen>hatoon: If you don't give me the exact output there is very little *I* can do. avu might be able to help. You might want to "/msg dpkg atheros" in the meantime
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09:19<avu>my vostro doesn't have an atheros card but some broadcom chip
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09:25<hatoon>I see I have to enable the kernel?
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09:28<babilen>hatoon: You could start by providing the output of the command i gave you
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09:31<hatoon>tell me how do I paste the output of the command here
09:32<ikarus>huh
09:32<ikarus>why does my udev package seem to be missing udevinfo
09:32<OdyX>!tell hatoon about paste
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09:34<hatoon>the point is that the output of this command in text mode and I can not put it here in the channel, you know?
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09:34<babilen>!tell hatoon -about pastebinit
09:34-!-EdLin [~edlin@ool-18baa812.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:34<ml|>!gpm
09:34<dpkg>gpm (General Purpose Mouse) is a package for use of the mouse in a Linux (text-only) console. Install it, then use left button to select text, middle or right button to paste. In some applications (such as elinks), you have to hold down Shift in order to cut or paste, otherwise the application itself interprets the mouse clicks.
09:34-!-xlotlu [~john@188.229.32.13] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:35<babilen>hatoon: "lspci -nn|grep -i network|pastebinit"
09:35<hatoon>ok
09:35<ml|>another option gpm and for future usage :)
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09:36<ml|>babilen: pastebinit does not work with pastebin.com atm
09:36-!-TudeLa [~TudeLa@127.Red-81-47-157.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit []
09:36<babilen>wtf? it's the worst piece of python code i've seen anyway
09:36<ml|>pastebin.com changed something, seen it? they redesign it a bit
09:37<OdyX>pastebin -b http://paste.debian.net
09:37<babilen>make that "pastebinit -b http://paste.debian.net" or?
09:37<gsimmons>ikarus: It is replaced by 'udevadm info'.
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09:39<babilen>hatoon: i'm interested in the PCIID - it's at EOL in [.....]
09:40<ml|>babilen: yes pastebinit -b http://paste.debian.net
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09:43<hatoon>Output is in paste.debian.org
09:43-!-flo` [~michael@p54998E36.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
09:43<ml|>well paste or type the url ;)
09:44<flo`>which java should i install?
09:44<babilen>flo`: openjdk
09:44<flo`>iced tea? sun? openjdk?
09:44<flo`>ok
09:45<flo`>what's the dfference between them?
09:45<babilen>flo`: or sun's (if you need the browser plugin) many people complained about icedtea
09:45<babilen>!openjdk
09:45<dpkg>OpenJDK is Sun's open source release of <Java>. All required functionality (according to the J2SE spec) is present but some optional stuff is missing and some stuff uses different implementations from Sun's binary JDK. Install the openjdk-6-jre package for the runtime environment or openjdk-6-jdk for the development kit. http://www.sun.com/software/opensource/java/faq.jsp http://openjdk.java.net/ #openjdk on irc.oftc.net.
09:46<babilen>flo`: I have no idea though if the free plugin is better these days
09:46<flo`>thank you =)
09:46<babilen>flo`: What do you need Java for?
09:46-!-jcwu [~jcwu@mail.vader.idv.tw] has joined #debian
09:46<flo`>jaolt
09:46<flo`>it's a ebay-manageent tool
09:47-!-mode/#debian [+l 407] by debhelper
09:47<hatoon>put the lspci-nn | grep-i network | pastebin the output was to pastebin the net
09:47<hatoon>put the lspci-nn | grep-i network | pastebin the output was to pastebin
09:47<babilen>flo`: try it with openjdk - it'll probably work
09:47<babilen>hatoon: Give us the URL
09:47<babilen>hatoon: Or the pciid (end of line in [....])
09:48-!-icebrain [~icebrain@co3-84-90-132-86.netvisao.pt] has joined #debian
09:48<hatoon>http://pastebin.com
09:49-!-flower [~d@cc305009-a.groni1.gr.home.nl] has joined #debian
09:49<ml|>hatoon: should do --> "lspci -nn|grep -i network|pastebinit -b http://paste.debian.net"
09:50<ml|>and then gives the full url
09:50<babilen>hatoon: and give us *the complete* URL
09:50<babilen>ml|: *high five*
09:51*ml| high fives right back
09:51<hatoon>ok
09:51<gsimmons>ml|: Note that Lenny's pastebinit version doesn't know about paste.debian.net.
09:52<babilen>won't it work?
09:52<ml|>gsimmons: ok, did not know that
09:52<babilen>*sigh*
09:52-!-jmho_ [~quassel@port-87-193-192-142.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:53<ml|>maybe ... http://pastebin.ca/ then?
09:53<babilen>hatoon: Just get us the pciid. You find it in the end of the output of "lspci -nn|grep -i network". It's the [abcd:2342] part
09:53<ml|>yeah at this point just type it
09:53-!-judd [~judd@judd.bot.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Ctrl-C at console.]
09:53<hatoon>http://paste.debian.net/63194
09:54-!-dr|zed [~dr|z3d@9YYAAAFEE.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:54<babilen>,pciid 168c:001c
09:54-!-dr|zed [~dr|z3d@83TAAAVU8.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
09:54<ml|>it worked :)
09:54<ml|>but judd is gone now hehe
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09:54<babilen>jesus
09:55-!-vsayer [~vivek@c-76-103-244-154.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #debian
09:55<gsimmons><judd> [168c:001c] is 'AR5001 Wireless Network Adapter' from 'Atheros Communications Inc.' with kernel module 'ath5k' in lenny. See also http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/index.rhtmlx?check=1&lspci=168c:001c http://wiki.debian.org/ath5k and the out-of-tree 'ath_pci' module.
09:55-!-jmho [~quassel@port-87-193-192-142.static.qsc.de] has joined #debian
09:56<ml|>gsimmons: to the rescue :)
09:56<themill>babilen: sorry... timing :) a little maintenance going on.
09:57<babilen>kmuto and gsimmons came to the rescue
09:57<babilen>!ath5k
09:57<dpkg>[ath5k] a completely free (no proprietary HAL) driver for Atheros 802.11a/bg PCI wireless LAN chipsets. Included in Debian kernels since 2.6.24. See http://wiki.debian.org/ath5k for more information and supported devices. For AR5007* devices, ask me about <ar2425>. For 802.11n device support, ask me about <ath9k>. See also <backports.org>.
09:57-!-xabbu42 [~xabbu42@200-252.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:57<ml|>hatoon: ^^^^
09:57<babilen>hatoon: ^^^^
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09:58<hatoon>wha should I do?
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09:59<hatoon>my kernel 2.6.26
09:59<babilen>hatoon: install wireless-tools, modprobe ath5k, "dmesg|tail -n 10" --> paste, try to configure your card
09:59<babilen>hatoon: see http://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse
10:00<ml|>hatoon: and wiki page dpkg just showed you
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10:01<maxp>does any have intel 945 chipset with 4GB ? :D
10:02<ml|>maxp: maybe a hardware issue at this point?
10:02<babilen>not supported AFAIR - 3.3GB max
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10:02<ml|>he says his bios shows full 4gb tho
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10:03<hatoon>wireless-tools installed and now what do I do?
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10:03<babilen>quote from thinkwiki: "Due to Intel 945 chipset limitation, addressable memory will be (4GB - I/O space) ~ 3.2GB"
10:03<babilen>hatoon: read
10:03<lancelot_of>latex preview does not work in my emacs, showing just "block icons" near images or formulas. Any hint/help/suggestion?
10:04<ml|>if that is the case then, out of luck; will only see ~ 3.2bg
10:04<ml|>I same issue with my bios ;(
10:04-!-judd [~judd@judd.bot.oftc.net] has joined #debian
10:05<ml|>judd: wb
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10:05<Pryon>lancelot_of: does it render normally outside of emacs?
10:05-!-SuperDale [dalek@178.28.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:05<ml|>dpkg: wb judd
10:05<dpkg>O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay! judd has returned!
10:05<maxp>so, I will have to be happy with 3.2GB :/
10:06<ml|>seems do
10:06<ml|>*so
10:06<maxp>what for toshiba says about max 4GB if man cannot use it ?
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10:06<babilen>maxp: It's the maximum RAM you can put in your notebook - if it is addressable is a completely different story
10:06<maxp>anyway, virtual machine works better :)
10:06<babilen>maxp: Same story here with T60 - don't be sad :)
10:06<maxp>:)
10:07<ml|>yeah you are not the only one
10:07<lancelot_of>Pryon, dunno how to try outside of emacs...
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10:07<maxp>oh, do You use Wine ?
10:07<babilen>lancelot_of: compile the latex source?
10:07<babilen>lancelot_of: with pdflatex for example
10:08<lancelot_of>babilen, pdflatex compiles properly and all is good in the pdf file
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10:08<hatoon>thanks, I'll read and make any doubt speak with you again?
10:09<babilen>lancelot_of: Must be related to your emacs setup then. Contact St. IGNUcious at #emacs @ irc.freenode.net if nobody can help you here. (I can't)
10:09<ml|>hatoon: read try, if you have questions come back and ask the channel
10:09<babilen>lancelot_of: I assume that you have auctex installed and that the problem is with that?
10:09<babilen>hatoon: try the second step i told you about earlier
10:10<lancelot_of>babilen, auctex is installed on my syste,
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10:10<lancelot_of>so i'm going to ask in #emacs on freenode, thanks anyway
10:10<hatoon>ok
10:11<babilen>lancelot_of: Cult of vim here, so not much help. I guess that you miss the proper fonts or that you need to include some auctex incarnations in your .emacs to get it working
10:11<babilen>lancelot_of: good luck
10:12<babilen>s/incarnations/prayers
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10:14<babilen>hatoon: Could you try "modprobe ath5k" and paste the output of "dmesg | tail -n 23" to a pastebin (as practiced before)
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10:15<babilen>hatoon: After you've done that, you'll have to decide how you want to use your wireless adaptor. Id est: Which tool do you want to connect with? I would suggest either wicd/wicd-curses from backports or wpasupplicant's roaming mode
10:16<babilen>hatoon: You can find information about these programs on the wiki: http://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse
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10:16<babilen>hatoon: Along with the steps needed to configure them
10:16<babilen>hatoon: good luck :)
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10:22<suryan>is there any application that converts the ascii text to unicode text ?????
10:22<suryan>we hav web-based applications for converting the ascii text
10:23<suryan>i jus want to know whether there is any stand-alone application for that ???
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10:23<babilen>iconv maybe
10:23<babilen>also a online in perl/python/...
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10:24<babilen>s/online/oneliner
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10:24<suryan>the package is iconv ????
10:24-!-ao2 [~u@2001:1418:117::1] has joined #debian
10:24<babilen>and btw - ascii is valid utf8
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10:25<suryan>it is enough for me to convert the ascii tect to utf-8
10:26<wolf>it can be converted automatally to some degree
10:27-!-mode/#debian [+l 415] by debhelper
10:28<suryan>i have found an web based convertor
10:28<suryan>but unable to find out stand alone appl for conversion
10:28<suryan>it seems iconv is not a fully encoding application for that thing
10:29<themill>suryan: if it's truly ascii text, there is no conversion to be done
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10:30<babilen>suryan: conversion from ASCII to UTF8 is a no-op - no conversion necessary
10:30<suryan>i am unable to render some ascii based text copied from web pages in gedit
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10:30<babilen>suryan: Could you provide an example of that text?
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10:31<suryan>so there is a need to convert the ascii text to unicode so that the editor can render it
10:31-!-mercutio22 [~mercutio2@201-1-7-29.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Quit: leaving]
10:31<suryan>e-paper text
10:31-!-flower [~d@cc305009-a.groni1.gr.home.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:31<suryan>copy it into txt editors
10:31<suryan>the text is encrypted
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10:32<wolf>you can try to open it using emacs ?
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10:33<babilen>suryan: It is most likely not ASCII encoded text then.
10:33<Guest707>do you know if there is a way to say 'no' by default when dpkg asks for update a conffile?
10:34<suryan>i mean without the installation of that particular font we can't render it i think so ????
10:34<babilen>suryan: every font can render ASCII characters
10:35<suryan>the ascii text of web pages can be rendered in our editors iff that font is installed
10:35<suryan>for that can't we convert it into unicode directly and display it ???
10:35*themill thinks suryan has a different meaning of "ascii" to everyone else here
10:36*babilen too :)
10:36<suryan>then what is the name of the convertor ???
10:36<suryan>does it exists ???
10:36<babilen>suryan: ASCII to UTF8 *needs no conversion*
10:37<babilen>suryan: If you are looking for a converter between different encodings (say latin1 to utf8) use iconv
10:37<wolf>it's not necessary at all to convert
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10:38<babilen>suryan: "man iconv"
10:38<suryan>what is the kind of text in the proprietary web pages ?????
10:38<babilen>suryan: And it would be great if you could provide an example of the data you are working with, so we can *really* help you
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10:39<suryan>for ex: http://eenadu.net
10:39<suryan>if you open the site
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10:39<suryan>what is the kind of font that you are goin to look ????
10:39<themill><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"/>
10:39<themill><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"/>
10:40<themill>yay... a mix of encodings on the one page :(
10:40<babilen>\o/
10:40<suryan>you can properly see the page unless you install the eenadu fonts
10:40<babilen>at least they specify an encoding (unlike wikipedia in their DB structure for example)
10:41<babilen>suryan: That is not ASCII - but (probably) one of the encodings mentioned above windows-1252/ISO-8859-1 (i.e. latin1)
10:41<babilen>or some indian encoding
10:41<suryan>yes this is indian encoding
10:41<themill>that page is full fail... it has 11 <html> tags.... and each one tries to introduce some different section in different encoding including utf-8 and latin-1.
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10:42<suryan>you can't copy the text from the site to scribus for modifying the text ...
10:42-!-alekibango [foobar@ip-89-103-39-185.karneval.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:42<suryan>tell me how to render the text into scribus ?????
10:43-!-cahoot [~radix@82.183.196.76] has joined #debian
10:43<themill>suryan: that page doesn't have any text that is in ascii. It's a wonder that any browser manages to render it at all.
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10:44<suryan>you mean that the browser is internally converting the ascii to unicode ???
10:44-!-hever [~hever@ip-109-90-239-57.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #debian
10:44<themill>THERE IS NO ASCII THERE
10:45-!-shynobi [~michele@ppp-27-1.21-151.libero.it] has quit []
10:46<suryan>ok ..... then how can i copy that text into sribus ?????
10:46-!-shynobi [~michele@ppp-27-1.21-151.libero.it] has joined #debian
10:47<suryan>i am unable to render it in scribus
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10:49<suryan>can i render the text in scribus .... if yes how ?????
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10:50<babilen>suryan: Does your browser render that text correctly?
10:50<suryan>yes
10:50<babilen>amazing
10:50<suryan>i hav installed the appropriate fonts
10:50<suryan>eenadu fonts which are not authenticated
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10:53<suryan>here is the font for viewing tht pagehttp://cid-88702a43d09358f3.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Public/eenadu.xyz
10:53<suryan>rename the font as eenadu.ttf and update the font cache
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10:53<suryan>you will be able to view tha page properly
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10:54<Anubis169>hi all
10:55-!-marko [~marko@host29-151-dynamic.37-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
10:55<Anubis169>i'm running lenny and i'm having a hard time getting realplayer to install
10:56<Anubis169>it keeps talking about wanting dependancies that're already installed, but it says it can't find them
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10:58<suryan>you got the font of that page ????
10:58<babilen>no
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10:58<babilen>!tell Anubis169 -about realplayer
10:59-!-kerin [~kerin@c-75-69-38-180.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #debian
10:59<babilen>Anubis169: Sorry - but that player is not supported in here.
10:59-!-marko [~marko@host29-151-dynamic.37-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:59<Anubis169>ah, fair 'nuff
10:59<babilen>Anubis169: I might take a look at the errors, so paste them to a pastebin
10:59<Anubis169>thanks anyway :)
11:00<babilen>But it's probably due to bad packaging (is the package for Debian? which version?) and i can't help
11:00<babilen>you might be able to play with the contents of the debian/ directory to get it to install
11:00-!-alonzo94 [~alonzo94@78.236.24.33] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
11:00<Anubis169>i think it's an x86 on x64 thing, but i'm not sure how to go about it
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11:01<babilen>probably not possible - have a look at the alternatives. The factoid dpkg told you about mentions them
11:01<babilen>"not possible" == without knowledge and work :)
11:01<budo>need help on how to get java up and running for java games
11:01<Anubis169>hehehe
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11:02<babilen>Anubis169: You could for example install it in a 32bit chroot - or try your luck with ia32-libs ..
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11:05*Anubis169 blinks
11:05<suryan>hey
11:05<Anubis169>erm.. *confuzzled look*
11:05<suryan>download the font and update your cache
11:05<budo>need assitance. java installed and yet the iceweasel browser not pickin it up
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11:06<Anubis169>babilen: you know how?
11:06<ikarus>budo: what does about:plugins say ?
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11:07<babilen>Anubis169: http://blog.shadypixel.com/realplayer-on-x86_64-amd64-linux/ and http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/534 *might* help
11:08<babilen>Anubis169: I would still consider the alternatives (codecs from debian-multimedia) "/msg dpkg real codecs" and "/msg dpkg dmm"
11:08<Anubis169>i tried that
11:08<Anubis169>i'm trying to play stuff from the OTR archives
11:08-!-patofiero [~carlos@bas3-ottawa23-1177594421.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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11:08<Anubis169>and it says i need some weird voice codec
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11:08<babilen>*shrug*
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11:09<Anubis169>this is turning out to be more trouble than it's prolly worth, but it's personal now :P
11:09<babilen>hehe :)
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11:09<babilen>and the gstreamer/ffmpeg plugins did not work at all?
11:10<babilen>what about mplayer from debian-multimedia?
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11:14<budo>icedtea-gcjwebplugin is already the newest version.
11:15<budo>ok ill check -ikarus
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11:15<budo>it reads icetea enabled
11:15<babilen>budo: You might also want to try java's browser plugin - I heard some complains about icedtea
11:16<babilen>!tell budo -about java
11:16<babilen>budo: read the wiki page - you'll find the information you need there
11:16<budo>thank you
11:16<babilen>budo: Not sure if that will help with your problem, but it's worth a try if playing these games is important for you
11:17<babilen>budo: I meant SUN's java browser plugin :)
11:17-!-debalance_ [~debian.or@92.116.251.183] has joined #debian
11:18<babilen>budo: sun-java6-plugin it is
11:18<budo>got it : )
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11:25<ryan_>im trying to resrict sftp users to there directory, could I do that with just debian's file permissions?
11:25<ryan_>such as removing read from all other users?
11:25-!-georg_ [~georg@83.167.88.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:25<ryan_>or would that be a bad thing
11:25<BlackFate>ryan_, way bad
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11:26<petemc>ryan_: look at scponly
11:26-!-alienux1 [~theXman@138.199.65.131] has joined #debian
11:26<ryan_>was using the make_chroot_jail script but the user cant even login
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11:31<ryan_>but will scponly stop them from seeing the rest of the filesystem?
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11:32<ryan_>nope it didnt
11:32<petemc>ryan_: it can be used with chroot
11:33<petemc>or you can look into rbash
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11:34<petemc>3http://sublimation.org/scponly/wiki/index.php/FAQ#Chroot_and_Debian
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11:48<geckos>I want to use gnome and icewm.. changing at gdm session option.. (so far so good).. now.. I want to start a program (xmodmap ~/.xmodmap) only when I'm choose icewm.. I read the manual of IceWM but cannot find one script that runs only when IceWM starts..
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11:49<cesurasean>I need some inspiration. Yuck.
11:49<cesurasean>Anyone else feel like throwing their laptop into the river and switching career paths?
11:50-!-komputes [~komputes@76-10-150-161.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:50<geckos>.xsessions can be a candidate.. but I make it work
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11:52<grav>Hello there! I am experiencing the following php-bug: http://bugs.php.net/45553
11:52<grav>I have upgraded php using apt-get, and my php-version is now PHP 5.2.0-8+etch16
11:53<grav>Anyone knows if I can upgrade php 5.2 further? As I understand 5.2.0-8 means 5.2 with 8 levels of patches
11:54<geckos>brb
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11:55<babilen>grav: I guess you need to upgrade to lenny
11:55<babilen>,versions php5
11:55<judd>php5 -- etch: 5.2.0-8+etch13; etch-security: 5.2.0+dfsg-8+etch16; lenny: 5.2.6.dfsg.1-1+lenny4; lenny-security: 5.2.6.dfsg.1-1+lenny6; sid: 5.3.1-4; sid: 5.3.1-5; squeeze: 5.3.1-5
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11:56<grav>Ok, so I have to upgrade whole system to lenny?
11:58<grav>Ok, thanks for the info. I guess I'll have to work around the bug then ... :-/
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12:02<locklace>grav: or build your own php, it's not exactly rocket science
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12:03<geckos>i'm back
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12:09<saad>hi
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12:41<User_007>hello, i am using Squeeze AMD64. I use radeon driver and after some apt upgrades my when i use glxgears i get just 200fps and i have a big CPU use.
12:43<User_007>by the way, when it works i have low CPU usage and about 800fps
12:43-!-cloud [~IRC@195.145.166.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:43<User_007>(on glxgears)
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12:45<User_007>when i do glxinfo grep direct, i got direct rendering, and mesa version is the 7.7 (squeeze)
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13:17<Shadow193>Hi
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13:18*MeCooL :)
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13:27<d5t_ubuntu>.part
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14:09<thethirdgolem>hello
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14:10-!-MeCooL is now known as mecool
14:11<babilen>welcome
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14:12<thethirdgolem>im a new user of irc
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14:13<bja>!tell thethirdgolem about irc tutorial
14:14<thethirdgolem>??
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14:15<bja>Read the link, it will give you hints on what to do and what not to do. Some will be counterintuitive. Generally helpfull
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14:15<thethirdgolem>thnk
14:15<bja>np
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14:22<sonofthebong>does anyone know where i can get a module for the kernel in the debian netinstall cd so that it can recognize my dell proprietary driver ? i boot the cd and choose language and kbd layout then it stops when it its mouting my cd-rom
14:23<sonofthebong>im running a dell inspirion 531
14:23<sonofthebong>or anyone heard about this ?
14:24<locklace>driver for what
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14:25<sonofthebong>my sata controller on the dell inspiron 531
14:25<sonofthebong>i can only install using some debian cds that have been backported
14:26-!-crixfer [~crixfer@186.84.22.176] has joined #debian
14:26<sonofthebong>but i wanted to use the stock netinstall
14:26<sonofthebong>i looked for it in the debian website found no info about it
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14:26<sonofthebong>in google there are tons of topics about this problem on this machine
14:26<jcole>sonofthebong: you might need to apt-get source the debian installer and include it in the build
14:26<sonofthebong>no solution other than the backported cds
14:26<locklace>try a backport installer image, http://kmuto.jp/debian/d-i/
14:27<sonofthebong>i allreday used the backport installer i wanted to see if there is a way to use the default netinstall cd
14:27<sonofthebong>already*
14:27<locklace>did the backport image work?
14:27<sonofthebong>yeah
14:27<locklace>so what's the problem?
14:27<locklace>the backport image has a much newer kernel than the current stable installer image
14:28<sonofthebong>humm , i just wanted to know/find another solution if possible to this but if this is all there is no problem
14:28<locklace>it exists to solve exactly this kind of problem
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14:29<locklace>sonofthebong: maybe you are confused about what the backport installer image is. it will still install exactly the same version of debian as the normal installer; it's just that the installer itself will be smarter about being able to detect your hardware in order to get you bootstrapped
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14:29<mjbizi>helo
14:29<sonofthebong>ooo nice !
14:29<jcole>sonofthebong: like locklace said... it doesnt matter which netinst .iso you use, you can always install the kernel of your liking afterwards
14:30<sonofthebong>i tought the backport installer had differences between the default installer
14:30<mjbizi>I would ask you for help
14:30<sonofthebong>sorry for the english folks im from brasil
14:31<sonofthebong>thanks for clearing this up for me !
14:31<mjbizi>php -v returns php: error while loading shared libraries: libz.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
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14:31<locklace>!tell mjbizi about how to ask
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14:34<mjbizi>ok
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15:01<deubeuliou>hi. I once saw debian wine bottles sold somewhere, but I can't find them anymore. Do you know if someone still sells them ?
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15:04<SeCt>You will have to search for the beaujolais nouveau 2008
15:05<SeCt>They changed the logo inside out though
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15:05<deubeuliou>SeCt: ok, thanks
15:06<SeCt>Youre welcome
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15:07<deubeuliou>ah, you are speaking of the bottle with the modified debian logo ? I was speaking about this bottle: http://www.insidesocal.com/click/debian-wine.png
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15:09<SeCt>deubeuliou: Ok cool. Didnt know there was a debian wine..
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15:09<deubeuliou>ok
15:09<sney>open source wine
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15:13<deubeuliou>found it: http://www.cafe-libertad.de/shop/essen-trinken/wein-rum/debian-wein.html :)
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15:15<sney>cheap stuff
15:16<deubeuliou>probably, yes. but still it's fun as a gift
15:16<sney>I mean it doesn't cost much. but a lot of the pricetag on wine is just prestige tax, so it might be perfectly fine tasting
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15:17<Isabella>hola
15:17<sney>hi
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15:34<Phoenix_the_II>If any could help me in iptables + ip ruiles ?
15:34<Phoenix_the_II>http://paste.debian.net/63243/
15:34<Phoenix_the_II>what i try here is to make an certain ip range forced over the connection 'xs4all'
15:34<Phoenix_the_II>yet while the packages do go out on the xs4all connection, and i do receiver replies, the original PC which issued the request will never receive any data
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15:34<Phoenix_the_II>-_-
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15:35<rleigh_>i folks. I'm trying to set up a dual screen display with X. My config is at http://paste.debian.net/63245/ It's giving me an apparently cloned display until I run 'xrandr --output DVI-0 --left-of DVI-1'.
15:35<althaser>what do you use to manager your sound devices ?
15:36<rleigh_>I'm unsure what I'm missing in xorg.conf to to this by default. Any ideas?
15:37<rleigh_>Phoenix_the_II: Can't what you want just be done with 'ip route'? Do you really need iptables for this?
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15:37<Phoenix_the_II>rleigh_, once i get this working. I rather do this port/protocol based
15:38<Phoenix_the_II>and i done this once before. in debian etch
15:38<Phoenix_the_II>but it seems the old ways don't quite work anymore ;(
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15:39<irene_lawapa>ola
15:40<jcole>rleigh_: first off you have Screen0 and Screen1 ... you only want a Screen0 if a "shared" dual display
15:40<jcole>rleigh_: s/want a/want only
15:41<rleigh_>jcole: If I omit screen1, how do I specify that screen0 has two displays? I've put a Virtual resolution in the display section, but I'm not sure how to tell it to use both monitors there.
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15:42<rleigh_>AFAICT there's only one display allowed per screen (according to the docs)
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15:49<jcole>rleigh_: i found this on ubuntu wiki -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config/Multihead#line-27
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15:50<jcole>rleigh_: no "Monitor" definitions in "Screen"
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15:52<rleigh_>jcole: Thanks! Examples do seem to be quite thin on the ground for the very latest xrandr stuff.
15:52<rleigh_>I'll give this a try soon.
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15:54<jcole>rleigh_: no problem.. a nice feature would be for xrandr to create an xorg file using the current display settings
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15:55<rleigh_>That would be awesome if it were possible! I used X -configure, but it doesn't do the best job.
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15:57<jcole>rleigh_: when using the nvidia control gui, it will create both an xorg file and a user specific ~/.nvidiarc file (which configures the display before your desktop environment) based on your current display settings... i dont see why xrandr couldn't do the same
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16:12<ElWaPeRaS>ola
16:12<ElWaPeRaS>hola
16:12<ElWaPeRaS>hay alguien?
16:12<koollman>!es
16:12<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
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16:12<ElWaPeRaS>hola
16:13<ElWaPeRaS>no hablais mucho?
16:13<ElWaPeRaS>¿?
16:13<locklace>!es-social ElWaPeRaS
16:13<dpkg>ElWaPeRaS: Este no es un canal social, este es un canal de soporte tecnico en Ingles, si necesitas soporte para Debian en Espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
16:13<ElWaPeRaS>jooooooo
16:14<ElWaPeRaS>no me hecheis
16:14<ElWaPeRaS>xDDDDDDD
16:14<ElWaPeRaS>decid algo!!!!!!!!!!!!
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16:20<michi7x7>hi all
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16:20<michi7x7>i'd like to use dmraid on debian testing
16:20<SecT>Hello
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16:20<michi7x7>now i ran into grub-problems (as expected)
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16:21<michi7x7>using grub-legacy would be enough for the moment, but how can i use it?
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16:22<michi7x7>seems like grub-common is only working with grub-pc
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16:22<michi7x7>(read error on stage1)
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16:24<michi7x7>noone any ideas?
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16:27<ElWaPeRaS>olaaaaaaaaa
16:27<garcrack>holaaaa "el waperas"
16:27<ElWaPeRaS>k tl<'
16:27<ElWaPeRaS>?¿
16:27-!-chitchat [~guest@120.17.227.92] has joined #debian
16:27<SecT>Michi7x7: Sorry i have no idea
16:27<garcrack>bn y tu carabellota?
16:27<kop>!br
16:27<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
16:27<ElWaPeRaS>no hablo contigoo Sect
16:27<noflash>ElWaPeRaS, please english only here
16:28<ElWaPeRaS>por que?
16:28<noflash>#debian-br
16:28<garcrack>es tonto eto jajajajajajajja
16:28<ElWaPeRaS>br
16:28<ElWaPeRaS>ja
16:28<garcrack>ja
16:28<ElWaPeRaS>ja
16:28<garcrack>ja
16:28-!-mode/#debian [+b *!*Xxpochola@*.Red-88-0-217.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] by Ganneff
16:28<noflash>go there
16:28-!-mode/#debian [+b *!*zx942@*.Red-88-0-217.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] by Ganneff
16:28<michi7x7>SecT, i know how to get it working using Grub-Legacy
16:28<michi7x7>did it more than once
16:28<kop>ElWaPeRaS: Because this is debian support for english speakers and there another channel for portugues.
16:29<michi7x7>the only problem is the depency between grub-legacy and grub-common
16:29-!-NCommander [~quassel@cpe-74-74-175-159.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:29<kop>Are there any applications that put a keyboard on the screen so I can detect if all the keys on my keyboard work?
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16:29-!-ElWaPeRaS [~Xxpochola@249.Red-88-0-217.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:30<SecT>And Grub 2?
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16:30<michi7x7>SecT, Grub 2 has no dmraid-support
16:31<dkr>kop: you could use xev it's just text, but it displays the details of each keypress
16:31-!-Turelion [~Turelion@199.60.230.207] has joined #debian
16:31<kop>dkr: Thanks. I'll check it out. (I'm also looking at keytouch....)
16:32<michi7x7>kop, there are a view x-tools, which can display keyboard-events
16:32-!-Turelion [~Turelion@199.60.230.207] has quit []
16:32<michi7x7>but xev should to it
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16:34<michi7x7>i'll try lilo instead of grub...
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16:38<kop>Well, that sorta worked. By the time I got to printscreen/sysreq something funky happened and I had to kill the xterm. But it seems ok.
16:39<michi7x7>!de
16:39<dpkg>deutschsprachige Hilfe bekommt ihr in #debian.de (auf irc.oftc.net, irc.freenode.net oder irc.belwue.de) - German speaking users please go to #debian.de (on irc.oftc.net, irc.freenode.net or irc.belwue.de).
16:40<SecT>Good luck Michi
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16:40<michi7x7>i don't think they know...
16:41-!-kaziem [~devnull@209.253.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #debian
16:41<SecT>I dont know much about raid. Never used it.
16:42<michi7x7>i know quite much, and i ran into problems with every distro till now
16:42<michi7x7>except gentoo O_o
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16:43<dondelelcaro>michi7x7: what's the problem?
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16:43<michi7x7>grub and dmraid
16:43<bja>dondelelcaro: went to .de he is beeing tended to there
16:43<dondelelcaro>cool
16:44<dondelelcaro>michi7x7: what about it? you just use a raid1 boot device, and you're done.
16:44<michi7x7>bja, i still enjoy talking english
16:44-!-kikito [~kikito@150.Red-83-61-79.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit []
16:44<michi7x7>my boot-device is raid0, my home is raid1
16:44<dondelelcaro>michi7x7: so your boot device needs to be raid1
16:45<michi7x7>hm?
16:45<michi7x7>bad idea, i like speed
16:45<dondelelcaro>michi7x7: uh... /boot is only read once, and never used again
16:45<dondelelcaro>michi7x7: there's no point in having it raid0
16:45<kop>michi7x7: Boot loaders don't do raid.
16:46<michi7x7>yes, but grub fails binding the linux devices to bios devices
16:46<michi7x7>just tell me step to step what to do, and i'll try
16:46-!-Leecher-Sama [~Leecher0@190.13.43.87] has joined #debian
16:46<dondelelcaro>michi7x7: no, it doesn't. It works perfectly fine if /boot is a raid1 device
16:47-!-mode/#debian [+l 398] by debhelper
16:47<dondelelcaro>michi7x7: you either have a separate /boot which isn't raided, or you have a /boot which is raid1; either way works
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16:47<michi7x7>so you just don't use the raid as raid
16:48<dondelelcaro>michi7x7: as far as the bootloader is concerned, it doesn't see the raid
16:48<michi7x7>which works (of course) since its read only
16:48<ikarus>Linux raid partitions just have a special block near the end
16:48<michi7x7>but thats not the problem
16:48<michi7x7>grub could load the stages from the raid
16:48<dondelelcaro>michi7x7: but it works perfectly well when you put new kernels on it and change the menu.lst, for example
16:48<michi7x7>it simply fails getting the root-device for linux
16:48<dondelelcaro>michi7x7: it can load the stages, but it won't be able to load the kernel
16:49*ikarus still has the occaisional fight with grub....
16:49<dondelelcaro>michi7x7: grub has nothing to do with the root device once it has loaded the kernel
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16:49<michi7x7>hmm yes
16:49-!-vizor [~vizor@86.57.193.100] has joined #debian
16:50<michi7x7>it's possible to use raid0 with grub-legacy (grub1)
16:50<michi7x7>i've done it more than once
16:50<dondelelcaro>only if your slice size is large enough
16:50<dondelelcaro>and that's a crapshoot; it may suddenly stop working
16:50<kop>michi7x7: Or your kernel is small enough. You got lucky.
16:50<michi7x7>3mb, and not on the first partition
16:51<dondelelcaro>doesn't matter what partition its on
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16:51<michi7x7>never mind, it worked with grub1
16:51<michi7x7>every time till now
16:51-!-Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@j104051.upc-j.chello.nl] has joined #debian
16:51<dondelelcaro>*shrug*
16:51-!-dotslash [~frank@5ED6A969.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:51*dondelelcaro has only done this kind of setup a few hundred times
16:51<michi7x7>since i don't have any idea of those files debian installs into /boot/grub/
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17:03<jiohdi>my system is randomly locking up.. what log would I view to see what caused the crash?
17:04<kop>jiohdi: The console itself by preference.
17:05<michi7x7>The file /boot/grub/stage1 not read correctly
17:05<michi7x7>i love it...
17:05<bja>Else look into /var/log and take your pick. then go one with the next one
17:08<jiohdi>kop, I dont understand what you mean
17:09<SecT>Does anybody know how to view the current cpu temp in Lenny?
17:09<bja>acpi -V
17:10<bja>grep Thermal if you only need the temp
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17:11<SecT>Works like a charm. Thanx Bja
17:11-!-bjoern [~bjoern@dynadsl-080-228-78-110.ewetel.net] has joined #debian
17:12<bja>np
17:12<SecT>55 degrees celcius
17:12<bja>Running a little hot for my taste,
17:12<SecT>How can i cool it down
17:13<bja>Checking that vents aren't blocked and also that there isn't too much dust inside the casing
17:14<SecT>Well im sporting a Toshiba Satellite L300. Dual core T6400. Its quite new.
17:14<SecT>Maybe i can edit a config file?
17:15<bja>Any multithreaded programms running which are encrypting or decrypting large amount of data?
17:15<bja>SecT: powertop can help you find little power hugs
17:15<bja>powerhogs
17:15<SecT>No just xchat, a terminal and epiphany
17:16<bja>While the battery is charging, sometimes the temp goes up
17:16-!-michi7x7 [~michi@62-47-211-80.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:16<bja>running top can give you a clue of something you might be running on the background
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17:17<SecT>wow never used this utility
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17:19<supaman>hey, I am trying out a bit of kernel helping (as in the kernel tree itself) and trying to use the command git send-email (as per instructions from Greg Kroah-Hartman) but all I get is "git: 'send-email' is not a git-command. See 'git --help'." but git-send-email is mentioned in the man page (and that gives me command not found)
17:19<SecT>So i can actually follow the suggestions made by the application?
17:20-!-LoRez [~lorez@28IAAA1ZC.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
17:20<supaman>is there something special about the debian version of git?
17:20-!-Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@j104051.upc-j.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:20<jiohdi>is there a live debian version floating about?
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17:21-!-PeterT is "Peter Tarkoy" on #debian @+#petert #wwottdgd #Goulp @+#OpenTTDMegaClan #goulp.ingamechat #openttd.42 #openttd.hu #openttdcoop #jonty @+#coopetition #codecubes #openttd #openttd.notice #tycoon #openttdcoop.devzone #openttdcoop.dev #openttdcoop.bots #oftc
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17:22<supaman>jiohdi: http://wiki.debian.org/LiveCD
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17:26<bayar>hello all
17:26<bayar>how to block urls without proxy
17:26-!-EmleyMoor [phil@topdeck.tinsleyviaduct.com] has joined #debian
17:27<bja>bayar: if you know the ip, iptables can help you
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17:28<bayar>bja there is many sites using dns roundrobin
17:28<bayar>and
17:29-!-mercutio22 [~mercutio2@201-1-7-29.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #debian
17:29<bayar>i used iptables to block keywords
17:30<mjbizi>ned file libssl.so.0.9.8 64 bit
17:31<bayar>the problem : iptables dont block only the site exemple.com but all other sites where in there pages a link (<a href) to exemple.com
17:32-!-Guest503 is now known as maxb
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17:36<judd>It's OK! I'm back. Stop worrying about me.
17:36<bja>,wb
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17:37<kop>bayar: Do you want something like squid or dansguardian?
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17:38<kop>bayar: Proxies can be transparent.
17:39<bayar>dansguardian is a rpoxy?
17:39<bayar>a proxy?
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17:45<bayar>dansguardian work only with proxys ?
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17:47<bja>I need to convert an hex ip to standard format, can someone give me a search key for google
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17:47<bayar>bja you can use a calculator
17:48<bayar>hex >> dec
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17:48<bja>byar thx, non available at the moment
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17:49<bayar>gnome-calculator
17:50<rjent>On a leased system how do I tell what architecture it is running?
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17:52<bayar>uname -a ?
17:52<sney>he left but it's uname -m really
17:52<quinque>@bja: try sipcalc .. has prety much everything
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17:55<bja>quinque: thx allready solved the problem :)
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17:59<bja>bayar: if you want to block a site, you will need a proxy, specially if they do round robin dns. The alternative solution is far too complex
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18:00<bayar>bja. i can't use proxys
18:01<bayar>so i need an alternative solution
18:02<bja>bayar: If you can use iptables, you can use a proxy :)
18:02-!-Ox83 [~Ox83@c-67-169-113-42.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #debian
18:02<sney>transparent squid proxy, nobody will know it's there
18:02<sney>they can do image caching as well to save on bw
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18:04<bayar>sney bja . i cant use a proxy becaus i 'am using a load balancer
18:05-!-chitchat [~guest@ppp59-167-188-93.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:05<bayar>the loadbalancer will not be able to view the source of the connexions
18:06<bayar>the source will be the proxy
18:06<bayar>and will forward all the trafic in the same way
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18:06<bja>You can have multiple proxies, the same way you are using iptables now
18:07<sney>and this is why it's good to plan in advance when you're designing a network.
18:08<bja>Master sney, You've spoken with truth. We your padewans bow to your Infinte knowledge.
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18:09<sney>:P
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18:13<koollman>bayar: are you sure that with the same source and a different destination, the loadbalancer won't balance connections ?
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18:21<bayar>koollman yes
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18:25<bayar>koollman i cant do that with bind
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18:26<bayar>to redirecte www.exemple.com to 127.0.0.1
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18:34<bja>bayar: look where your point of failure is. Where all your traffic reaches/leaves your network. Those are the places to put the proxys
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18:36<sprink>I can't find out for the life of me, how to get dpkg to reinstall config files for a package
18:36<sprink>reinstalling the package doesn't work
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18:43<Nemoder>sprink: try purging the package then reinstalling
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19:20<twb>Why does sudo-ldap need its own package? Why can't ldap go via pam, like everything else?
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19:22<abrotman>you want ldap to authenticate against pam ?
19:22<twb>*via* pam
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19:22<twb>i.e. libpam_ldap
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19:22<twb>You know, the same way that login(8) uses ldap.
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19:25<abrotman>right .. you want ldap to use pam for its password checking ..
19:25<abrotman>or you want it to use whatever pam backend you've chosen?
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19:25<twb>I'm asking why there's a *separate* package sudo-ldap
19:26<abrotman>because not everyone uses sudo ?
19:26<twb>Huh?
19:26<twb>Obviously if you didn't want sudo, you wouldn't install sudo *or* sudo-ldap.
19:27<astronut>twb: because sometimes sudo privlidges aren't stored in /etc/sudoers
19:27<twb>astronut: ah, that makes more sense.
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19:27<twb>So sudo-ldap is a way to distribute the sudoers file via LDAP rather than a flat file.
19:28<astronut>well, sudo privlidges not the file itself, but yes, i would assume so
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19:28<abrotman>twb: doesn't it have a fancy description? :)
19:28<twb>abrotman: it doesn't.
19:28<astronut>http://www.gratisoft.us/sudo/readme_ldap.html << first google result
19:29<astronut>it's the result of ./configure --with-ldap for sudo
19:29<abrotman>twb: okay .. so that version has ldap support, so what astronut said makes sense. I personally haven't seen sudo privs in LDAP, but i have seen tons of other things stored in ldap, so why not?! :)
19:30<twb>abrotman: because if the only point was to bypass pam, that would be stupid.
19:30<astronut>well, if you have 50,000 computers on a network, do you really want to have to manage 50K sudoers?
19:30<twb>Sigh.
19:30<abrotman>astronut: NIS+!!!
19:31<astronut>!slap abrotman
19:31*dpkg strikes a resounding *THWAP* across abrotman's face
19:31<astronut>oh, NIS+... oh well
19:31<astronut>anyway, kerberos+ldap ftw
19:32<SecT_>O my goodness
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19:37<sprink>so after purging apache, and reinstalling the apache2 package
19:37<twb>Sun dropped NIS+
19:37<sprink>I still don't have anything in /etc/apache2
19:37<abrotman>sprink: wrong package .. apache2.2-common
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19:39<sprink>abrotman: thank you
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19:49<pwork>Hello, to get mumble 1.2 (requires glibc 2.10) working on a lenny host, I just installed a sid chroot : the /home is shared with the chroot, so that the .bashrc is shared too. I'd like to get a different .bashrc profile for the chrooted sid, how can I do this please ?
19:50<pwork>I use schroot -c sid -p someSidApp through scripts on the host in fact
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19:50<koollman>pwork: something like 'if [ -e /this/is/only/inside/chroot] then ; ...' ?
19:51<pwork>koollman, thanks for the idea, but since /home is shared with the chroot, I can't know that way if I'm in the chroot or not
19:51<koollman>or grepping the content of /etc/debian-_version ...
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19:52<pwork>koollman, yeah, this is good
19:52<koollman>pwork: home is shared, but / isn't. (else it wouldn't be a chroot, right ? :) )
19:52<koollman>inside the chroot, just touch /thisismychroot, and test for it
19:52<pwork>I wonder if there's a smart way to do this in fact. I don't really want to hack or tweak the OS
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19:52<twb>abrotman, astronut: fyi #573108
19:53<abrotman>!dbugs 573108
19:53<dpkg>#573108:W[sudo-ldap] Clarify what "ldap support" means. (); Tue, 09 Mar 2010 00:39:02 UTC []
19:54<pwork>The problem that occurs is that in the host, I created a 'mumble' sh script, in the PATH, but in the chroot, I don't want 'mumble' to be interpreted as this script, but as the /usr/bin/mumble installed in the chroot
19:54<pwork>Just tell if not clear :)
19:54<koollman>simple enough
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19:55<koollman>pwork: I would test in the script you created, not in .bashrc
19:56<koollman>(and I assume that script is in /home, else there would be no confusion anyway)
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19:57<pwork>Yeah, this script in in the /home, and referenced in the PATH variable through the .bashrc
19:58<koollman>inside the script, look for /usr/bin/mumble, if it's there, exec it, else chroot
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20:00<pwork>koollman, man schroot :) This can be tweaked in schroot.conf
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20:07<ryan_>hello im wanting to do a remote debian install
20:07<ryan_>do I have to use the swap space like most guides want me to or can i use a empty partition
20:09<petemc>ryan_: empty partition should be fine, the install guide covers this
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20:12<pwork>koollman, thanks for help :) Did the /imInTheChroot solution, and it works fine ;)
20:12<pwork>Bye bye, time for a good ZZzz
20:12<ryan_>hehe this should be fun
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20:41<parallelday>hi
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20:48<parallelday>So, can anyone tell me whether in general Testing or Unstable is better for a the desktop? Supposidly Testing is more stable, but it can also take longer for critical bugs to get fixed.
20:48<parallelday>That might be put into Unstable right away.
20:48<bremner>parallelday: if you have to ask, you shouldn't use unstable
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20:50<EmleyMoor>I've got a .iso that when I put it to a DVD, has a different md5sum - tried with more than one DVD
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20:50<bremner>parallelday: or in a more friendly manner, with unstable, aptitude upgrade can trash your system
20:50<parallelday>@bremner: does that include Sidux as well? or is Sidux a good bit more stable than unstable?
20:50<abrotman>sidux is not debian, ask them
20:50<parallelday>true, but it's based on unstable and updated quarterly.
20:51<abrotman>sidux is not debian, ask them
20:51<icebrain>parallelday: #sidux at oftc
20:52<bremner>does it matter what file system I use on a small usb key? It has a luks volume, so basically it will only be mounted on linux.
20:52<abrotman>bremner: the argument against journaled filesystems has been made .. ultimately up to you
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20:52<abrotman>simonrvn: your bot is lost ...
20:53<parallelday>Well anyway, would it be accurate to say that Debian (lets say Testing) suffers from less instances of dependency hell than Ubuntu when manually installing packages and having to fetch the dependencies from the repos before hand?
20:53<abrotman>parallelday: most of us don't use ubuntu
20:53<bremner>why are you manually install packages?
20:53<parallelday>occasionally there are packages that aren't in the repos.
20:53<abrotman>parallelday: packages should almost always be in installable
20:54-!-reloj87 [~reloj87@186.16.131.204] has joined #debian
20:54<bremner>I don't think it will make much difference what distro you use, 3rd party packages are problematic
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20:56<bremner>so any reason not to use fat32? is it fragile?
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20:57<abrotman>bremner: it's a crappy filesystem? :)
20:58<parallelday>I thought the only advantage NTFS had over FAT32 was that it was more secure. But that FAT32 is still the superior FS as far as speed is concerned.
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20:59<bremner>well, I don't care about speed, just reliability. I supposed ext2 is probably the winner
20:59-!-Blacker47 [~Blacker47@p57A91F0B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
21:00<parallelday>I haven't heard of too many people having problems with Ext4 despite all of the commotion surrounding it.
21:00<parallelday>What's ext2 have that 3 doesn't?
21:00<abrotman>it's not journaled
21:00<abrotman>and lots of people have been having ext4 issues
21:00<parallelday>Why would you want an FS that's not journaled?
21:01<abrotman>flash has a limited number of writes during its lifetime .. right?
21:01<EmleyMoor>On a USB key, you don't want a journal - you will wear it out
21:01<mrcoolhead>abrotman: What issues have they beed having with ext4?
21:01<abrotman>mrcoolhead: i've heard various things
21:01<parallelday>@mrcoolhead: people loosing data from power outages
21:02<abrotman>mrcoolhead: you'd do better to look over LKML stuff or kerneltrap stuff
21:02<mrcoolhead>abrotman: Any first hand experience?
21:02<abrotman>mrcoolhead: no, i like my data
21:02-!-netw0rx [~netw0rx@c-24-9-249-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #debian
21:03<parallelday>From what I've read (don't have the article handy) Ext4's problem with data loss isn't due to an error in the FS it's self. It's that applications don't take advantage of how it's managed differently from Ext3.
21:03-!-netw0rx [~netw0rx@c-24-9-249-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has left #debian []
21:03<bremner>I seem to recall Theodore Tso blogging on this topic.
21:03<mrcoolhead>I have been using ext4 on some machines with no problem.
21:04<parallelday>Or, Ext3 had some sort of "bug" that apps took advantage of that's not in Ext4. So, Ext4 is supposted to adhere more closely to POSIX standards than Ext3.
21:04<abrotman>mrcoolhead: good for you!
21:04<parallelday>And I think that most of the problems (maybe all of them) were fixed with patches that were released over a year ago.
21:05-!-ravenbird [simon@194.38-ppp.3menatwork.com] has joined #debian
21:06<mrcoolhead>abrotman: I will check out LKML
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21:07*EmleyMoor has something weird going on with his DVD drives
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21:23<bja>!qotd0
21:23<dpkg><Green-x> hello all, does any body have the serial number for parralles workstation?; <SpyderMan> Green-x: yes : J00RT3HH4X0R5; <Green-x> SpyderMan, thats wrong!
21:25<parallelday>?
21:27<twb>"the ext4 data loss problem" is that ext4's default cache time is reasonable, whereas ext3's default cache time is tiny.
21:28<twb>So if you have an outage (i.e. no UPS), you have a bigger window of data that isn't flushed to disk.
21:28<parallelday>Yeah, that's basically it in a nutshell.
21:28-!-vsayer [~vivek@c-76-103-244-154.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:28<twb>e.g. you lose the last five minutes of work instead of the last five seconds.
21:28<parallelday>With HDD's it's not so bad. But with flash memory...ugh
21:29-!-vsayer [~vivek@c-76-103-244-154.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #debian
21:29<parallelday>But, if you have flash memory I don't think your going to be keeping things that change a lot on your flash memory partition either, at least at this point where it's so expensive.
21:29<abrotman>bremner: you may also want noatime
21:29<twb>parallelday: um, with SSDs (i.e. MTD with hardware FTL) it's a good idea for the time to be larger, because it reduces the number of erases.
21:29<bremner>ah good point.
21:30<twb>You won't lose any more during an outage with SSD than an HDD.
21:30<parallelday>I was referring to the much lower write limit on SDD's than HDD's.
21:30-!-hw [benjamin@208.92.20.131] has joined #debian
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21:31<twb>parallelday: please demonstrate that this remains an issue for current-generation SSDs, with a hardware FTL, and assuming a lifetime of three or five years.
21:32<parallelday>I thought SSD's lasted about a year of heavy desktop use if you used it as your primary HD partition.
21:32<parallelday>100,000 to 1,000,000 writes I've heard.
21:32<astronut>much higher now
21:32<twb>I'm not interested in hearsay, I'm interested in empirical evidence.
21:32-!-khole [~khole@c-98-247-43-17.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #debian [Leaving]
21:32-!-jmho_ is now known as jmho
21:32<parallelday>Then my information must be outdated.
21:33-!-linac [~lin@122.90.125.105] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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21:34-!-knoppix_ [~knoppix@cpe-69-203-124-233.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
21:34<astronut>The drive will have a minimum of 5 years of useful life under typical client workloads
21:34<astronut>with up to 20 GB of host writes per day.
21:34<astronut>http://download.intel.com/design/flash/nand/mainstream/mainstream-sata-ssd-datasheet.pdf
21:34<astronut>datasheet for intel SSDs
21:35-!-knoppix_ is now known as Guest154
21:35<Guest154>does anyone know where one can as knoppix questions nowadays
21:35-!-darkelf5 [~darkelf5@cable-188-2-220-149.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #debian
21:35<parallelday>Well, maybe I'm thinking of the crappier non-Intel ones. Because I've heard that some of the other ones have crappier JMicron controllers.
21:35<Guest154>the old channel seems to be defunct now
21:35-!-jgoguen [~jgoguen@CPE00226b519cb1-CM0014e8b576c2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:36<abrotman>Guest154: it's not here
21:36<abrotman>Guest154: maybe try ##linux on irc.freenode.net ..
21:36<twb>Guest154: or you could migrate to Debian Live
21:36<bremner>meh, is there some alternative to http://www.qbik.ch/usb/devices/index.php
21:36<Guest154>well it is a debian derivative so this is the closest I could find
21:37<abrotman>Guest154: maybe try ##linux on irc.freenode.net ..
21:37<Guest154>that is for general linux questions, not problems with knoppix 6.2
21:37<astronut>parallelday: the 1e6 writes was about 2-3 years ago, even modern jmicron ones can do much more than that
21:37<bja>!tell Guest154 about knoppix
21:37<abrotman>this channel is definitely not for knoppix
21:37<Guest154>there must be something closer than that
21:37<twb>astronut: do the intel units support TRIM?
21:37<astronut>twb: yes
21:38<astronut>jmicron ones just have shitty performance
21:38-!-chitchat [~guest@ppp59-167-188-93.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:38<twb>Running .33 from experimental with btrfs -o ssd, do I need to do anything else to get my kernel to issue TRIMs?
21:38<EmleyMoor>My DVD RW drive can't read the whole disc any more, it seems
21:38<astronut>twb: i think so anyway
21:39<abrotman>EmleyMoor: it just stops? does the laser get stuck? bad disc ?
21:39<astronut>http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/02/intel-ssd-firmware-02hd-brings-back-trim-support-sans-bugs/ implies so
21:39<icebrain>Guest154: try the forum...
21:39<EmleyMoor>abrotman: No, it ends prematurely. Has done it with multiple discs after same amount
21:40<Guest154>I have tried freenode and here, do you suppose there could be a knoppix channel elsewhere, ##linux I assume was a joke
21:40-!-zhengyi_ [~zhengyi@134.122.225.1] has joined #debian
21:40<abrotman>EmleyMoor: sounds like a hardware issue/dying drive
21:40<abrotman>Guest154: on irc.freenode.net .. try ##linux .. stop being a pain
21:40<icebrain>Guest154: there's a topic in the forum about irc.knoppix.net/#knoppix
21:40<Guest154>what hostility
21:40<twb>astronut: another thing I've wondered is how hard it'd be to bypass the FTL, for espionage or data recovery purposes.
21:40<parallelday>When the netinstall CD fetches packages from the Internet. Do you have to manually apt-get the packages? Or does it provide a template where it asks you if your using say a desktop or server, Gnome or Kde, etc?
21:41<abrotman>icebrain: no such host
21:41<abrotman>parallelday: the latter, though many skip that and do it manually after the install has finished
21:41-!-darkelf5 [~darkelf5@cable-188-2-220-149.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:41<icebrain>abrotman: yeah, it seems it's dead too
21:41<astronut>twb: firmware update
21:41<astronut>possibly undocumented interface or through JTAG
21:41<twb>Cool.
21:44<Guest154>I came here to report a dpkg problem, but had just found that the #knoppix channel at freenode is now defunct and thought someone here might know where to address knoppix questions now
21:44<abrotman>you've been told numerous times
21:44<Guest154>but the hostility makes me not even want to mention what I came here for
21:45<ricairon>could anyone help in this problem? my eclipe shows this error ..http://www.4shared.com/file/237253741/3082d379/Captura_da_tela.html
21:45<parallelday>Knoppix's website doesn't give the currently functioning Knoppix channel?
21:45<kop>Guest154: If it's a knoppix problem we don't want to know. If you can reproduce it on Debian, then fine tell us.
21:45<bremner>does this USB key fail look familiar: http://paste.debian.net/63272
21:45-!-afurlan [~afurlan@189.34.72.40] has joined #debian
21:45<abrotman>bremner: uname -r ?
21:46<bremner>2.6.32-trunk-686
21:46<parallelday>If it doesn't, than I'd assume that there isn't one. The Knoppix webpage would probably be more up to date with this than a Debian IRC channel.
21:46<abrotman>Knoppix is offtopic here. Please discuss this somewhere else
21:46<Guest154>I use debian I have friends I try to help who use knoppix. goodbye
21:46<bja>Guest154: Take a look around, how many differences are in Debian based distros. Don't expect this channel to know all the differences. Hope you solve your problem and find a solution fast
21:47-!-zhengyi [~zhengyi@134.122.225.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:47<Guest154>I only asked it there was a channel
21:47<Guest154>since the one at freenode is defunct since 2008
21:47-!-mode/#debian [+o abrotman] by ChanServ
21:47-!-mode/#debian [+b *!*@cpe-69-203-124-233.nyc.res.rr.com] by abrotman
21:47<bja>Guest154: if you find one, let the channel know to update the factoid
21:47-!-mode/#debian [-o abrotman] by abrotman
21:47<abrotman>Guest154: please use ##linux on irc.freenode.net .. you've been told a few times
21:47<abrotman>Guest154: you've been silenced for 10 minutes for being offtopic
21:47*bremner was just in #knoppix on freenode
21:47-!-metaperl_ [~metaperl@adsl-157-146-54.cae.bellsouth.net] has joined #debian
21:48<abrotman>bremner: is the device pretty new ?
21:48<bremner>yeah
21:49<bremner>I thought these things were completely generic now, should I try a kernel upgrade? (running squeeze)
21:49-!-Guest154 [~knoppix@cpe-69-203-124-233.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #debian []
21:49<sney>"I demand you help me with this problem on an OS you don't use. if you don't help me you are an asshole" where do these guys come from
21:50<bja>I droped a can full of worms, maybe one got into irc ?
21:50<sney>ha maybe
21:50-!-mode/#debian [+o abrotman] by ChanServ
21:50-!-mode/#debian [-b *!*@cpe-69-203-124-233.nyc.res.rr.com] by abrotman
21:50-!-mode/#debian [-o abrotman] by abrotman
21:50<abrotman>it would help if you guys wouldn't keep talking to him .. he was directed to the forum and ##linux pretty quickly ..
21:51<abrotman>bremner: the only kernel upgrade is the -3- in sid
21:51<abrotman>unless you compile your own
21:51-!-Booru [~Fail@66.205.210.42] has joined #debian
21:52<twb>Google's HR people told me my "linux internals" skills weren't up to snuff, so I gotta start rolling my own kernels.
21:53<twb>That'll make me smarter, right? \end{ricer}
21:53<abrotman>twb: you should ask them what they meant ..
21:53<bremner>HR people know what linux internals are?
21:53<twb>abrotman: I was talking to the HR drone, who was reading notes post-facto from the technical people.
21:54<abrotman>that's not really helpful, pretty vague .. oh well
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21:54<othor1>I am trying to get alsa to work with iec958 output. If gstreamer-properties test works on both analog and digital outputs but when running Totem only analog output works, any ideas?
21:55-!-hw [benjamin@208.92.20.131] has joined #debian
21:56<twb>othor1: is the source digitally encoded?
21:56<othor1>The only way I have been able to get it to work consistently is forcing sound playback to the digital only (have to choose 'AD198x Digital' in the driver list instead of ALSA), but that way I can only use one app at a time
21:57-!-Booru [~Fail@66.205.210.42] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:57<othor1>with sound that is
21:57<twb>othor1: sounds like you can't hardware mux in digital.
21:57<othor1>I thought so too, but then mplayer and vlc work at the same time
21:57<othor1>both using alsa directly
21:58<twb>Then it's gnome's fault
21:58<parallelday>what is a "transitional dummy package"
21:59<abrotman>parallelday: it's a package that is there for when you do a version change like etch->lenny .. to facilitate a major package change
22:01-!-SEJeff_work [~jeff__@209.160.84.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:02<othor1>what media player do you recommend instead of totem?
22:02<abrotman>for what type of media /
22:02<abrotman>?
22:03<parallelday>I've usually had good luck with VLC.
22:03<othor1>Same here but it doesn't like dual display setups, it insists on full screening on the wrong display
22:03<parallelday>1.0.2 is pretty jank though.
22:03<ml|>mplayer works great for me :)
22:04<othor1>can't stand the interface
22:04<abrotman>othor1: what type of media?
22:04<othor1>Mostly videos/movies
22:04-!-brendan_ [~brendan@ResNet-32-145.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #debian
22:04<abrotman>othor1: i think your choices are pretty much totem-gstreamer/totem-xine/vlc/mplayer
22:05<abrotman>or straight xine i guess
22:05<twb>What I've seen of totem was pretty laughable
22:06<abrotman>works fine here ..
22:06<twb>e.g. picking the wrong colourspace for a DVD
22:06<abrotman>the only thing i haven't gotten totem to play is the movies from my digicam .. and mplayer can't do it either
22:07<othor1>any easy way to get a more modern day version of vlc for lenny?
22:07<abrotman>,versions vlc
22:07<judd>vlc -- etch: 0.8.6-svn20061012.debian-5.1+etch2; etch-security: 0.8.6-svn20061012.debian-5.1+etch3; lenny: 0.8.6.h-4+lenny2; lenny-security: 0.8.6.h-4+lenny2; squeeze: 1.0.4-2+b1; sid: 1.0.5-2
22:07<othor1>current "stable" is very old
22:07-!-freex [~user@91-114-222-89.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:07<abrotman>othor1: maybe /msg dpkg dmm .. not sure what version they have there
22:08<ricairon>http://www.4shared.com/file/237253741/3082d379/Captura_da_tela.html
22:08<twb>!tell othor1 about backports
22:08<ricairon>??? any solution?
22:08<abrotman>oh, doesn't seem to have vlc
22:08<abrotman>twb: there's no vlc there
22:08<twb>OK
22:08<othor1>Yes first place I looked
22:09<othor1>Recommend installing package from another version? (i.e. sid) ?
22:09<twb>othor1: maybe just migrate to testing
22:10<twb>It should be the new stable within six months
22:10-!-linac [~lin@222.76.123.69] has joined #debian
22:11<abrotman>othor1: no, it' snot recommended to mix
22:11<othor1>Didn't think so, different dependencies I would suppose
22:12-!-sansen [~san@190.245.97.224] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:14<parallelday>I'm excited about moving from Ubuntu to Debian Testing. It's probably just going to function pretty much how I'd expect it to and their won't be much to get excited about though. But the prospect of more frequently updates packages instead of waiting 6 months sounds good.
22:15-!-ricairon [~ricardo@201.36.215.70] has quit [Quit: Saindo]
22:15-!-trifolio6 [~h@62.43.57.179.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:15<othor1>I considered that but also the fact that most agree that if you have to ask wether you should or not, you probably shouldn't. So I myself am not sure
22:16-!-freex [~user@212-183-93-76.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #debian
22:18<othor1>Are there any complications of migrating from lenny to squeeze?
22:19<sney>sometimes, but usually it is a painless process provided you follow the instructions exactly and don't skip any steps
22:19-!-vsayer [~vivek@c-76-103-244-154.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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22:20<ml|>othor1: /msg dpkg lenny->squeeze
22:21<ml|>dpkg: es-social ml|
22:21<dpkg>ml|: Este canal es de ayuda con ordenadores en Ingles. Si no necesitas ayuda con tu ordenador, por favor vaya a otro canal. Si necesitas soporte con Debian en Espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
22:22<ml|>great :)
22:22<ml|>Este canal es de ayuda con ordenadores en Inglés. Si no necesitas ayuda con tu ordenador, por favor vaya a otro canal. Si necesitas soporte con Debian en Español, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
22:22<ml|>oops
22:22<sney>!spam ml|
22:22<abrotman>ml|: that's what /msg is for ..
22:22<ml|>abrotman: was just testing in channel ;)
22:23-!-xcode [~xcode@62.135.2.148] has joined #debian
22:26-!-freex [~user@212-183-93-76.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:26<paggas>hmm?
22:26<icebrain>btw, it's "línea"
22:26<paggas>!spam paggas
22:27<abrotman>enough ?
22:28<sney>icebrain: unfortunately the bot hates accents and things. it's also Español and Inglés
22:29<twb>Also, encoding in IRC is guesswork
22:29<twb>Because there's no facility to negotiate an encoding in-band.
22:30<sney>eventually it will all be unicode by default. hmm, maybe we should put in a wishlist bug for xchat to be set to unicode instead of whatever US-ASCII it uses by default
22:31<abrotman>sney: i'd guess that's more of a gtk/gnome issue .. could be wrong
22:32<twb>sney: practically speaking, that's how it works unless you're Japanese or Russian or a nut.
22:32<othor1>Ok I think I might just go through with the migration, but I am wondering, what about packages that are only available in "lenny" distribution (3rd party repositories etc) ? They should in theory be forward compatible right?
22:32<sney>all I know is every time I install xchat, I have to set it to UTF-8 myself, debian installs included.
22:32<twb>othor1: we can't comment on third-party repository status.
22:32-!-foka [~foka@125.33.14.9] has joined #debian
22:33<ml|>you are on your own with that
22:33<twb>othor1: but personally, I would NEVER EVER EVER use a third-party package, because they're all terribly, terribly shit.
22:33<sney>othor1: many 3rd party repos do have a squeeze/testing section, though, such as dmm or the updated wine one
22:33<twb>Well, Opera's .debs aren't as bad as webmin's.
22:33<abrotman>twb: unless the software is self-contained ?
22:34<sney>and google's repo for chrome exists outside the stable/testing/unstable heirarchy
22:35-!-freex [~user@91-114-218-151.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #debian
22:35<twb>Chrome can FOAD, IMO
22:35<ml|>sney: they only have one called lenny, right?
22:35<ml|>the vbox repos just have one that work for all
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22:36<sney>chrome just has 'main' iirc. Google works from a shaky internal redesign of ubuntu so they don't really pay attention to debian standards, though chrome does seem to Just Work (tm)
22:36<foka>Hello! I have a question about which is the better kernel to use on Intel Core i3/i5 processor with Debian i386 system: linux-image-2.6-686? Or linux-image-2.6-amd64? I googled for some time and had not been able to find a page which discuss the merits of either, so I am trying my luck here. Thanks!
22:36<sney>foka: how much ram do you have?
22:37<othor1>I will look into this in more detail tomorrow, thanks for all the help
22:37<foka>sney, 2GB on this particular machine. :-)
22:37<sney>it really comes down to personal preference, though. both will work. 686 is better supported because more people use it, and amd64 supports all the CPU features and higher than 3.5GB ram
22:37<bja>!es-social bja
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22:38<ml|>if more than ~3.3gb and want to use all your ram you need amd64 or bigmem kernel, tho not exactly the same as amd64
22:38<sney>foka: with 2GB you're not going to see a difference, except that 686 might be a little more stable.
22:38<ml|>or plan too to use more than 3.3gb
22:38<twb>foka: why don't you just run the CPU in native amd64 mode?
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22:39<ml|>yeah, I'd just use i386 if not going to use more than ~3.3gb
22:39<foka>sney, So, if I understand correctly, the -amd64 kernel will use some x86-64 instruction (with possibility of a tiny speed improvement), but might brings incompatibility with binary modules like 32-bit proprietary driver? :-)
22:40<foka>twb, You mean running the native Debian amd64 port? :-)
22:40<twb>foka: yes.
22:40<sney>foka: right, and just not being tested as much. but as you can see there are cases for both, so it's just whatever you feel like doing. there is no "right" answer.
22:40<abrotman>foka: for most people .. you'll never notice the difference of i386 or amd64 ..
22:40<ml|>yep
22:41<twb>In which case using the native ISA is better :-)
22:42<foka>twb, I'm configuring that particular machine for a friend, and to avoid problems (as those problems will come back to me, haha), I'm staying with i386 port for now. :-)
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22:42<twb>Well, if it's for someone who's going to want stupid proprietary crap, that's different
22:43<foka>sney, Thank you for the in-depth explanation. Now I know better. I was never sure. :-)
22:43<foka>abrotman, Very true, haha!
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22:47<parallelday>Why is it that ia-32 apps work and install fine in x64 Windows. But when it comes to Linux you have all kinds of problems with mixing them?
22:48<parallelday>Granted, most Linux apps are open source and ported to x64 so it's not an issue most of the time.
22:48<foka>abrotman, twb, ml|, sney: Thank you all for your help! Much appreciated! :-)
22:49<parallelday>I've successfully installed ia-32 emulators in x64 Windows but they won't run at all in x64 Linux.
22:49<ml|>np, enjoy debian :)
22:49<abrotman>parallelday: they're working on it ..
22:49<abrotman>!multiarch
22:49<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, multiarch is http://wiki.debian.org/multiarch and will allow Debian many improvements like a better support for systems that can run multiple binary targets, like i386 on amd64,i386 on ia64. http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/05/msg00290.html, or http://wiki.debian.org/MultiarchFosdem
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22:50<parallelday>I was just curious as to why the difference between Windows and Linux when it comes to that issue. You can force dpkg to install the ia-32 app, which I've done and gotten to work.
22:50<RustyRazor>im trying to get sftp working but after adding the Match rule to chroot users it fails to connect
22:51<adb>parallelday, you are running debian ?
22:51<parallelday>I know that it has something to do with 32 bit libraries being required, which I don't see why you can't just have both the ia-32 and x64 libraries installed.
22:51<parallelday>Not yet, I'm planning on switching to Testing later this week.
22:51<parallelday>Ubuntu currently.
22:51<adb>parallelday, go ask in your distribution
22:52<EmleyMoor>To an extent you can - you can also easily have an i386 "jail" on amd64
22:52<foka>parallelday, My experiment has been mostly pleasant, as in my machine(s) running Debian or Ubuntu amd64 port can usually run x86-32 applications just fine
22:52<parallelday>adb: This is more of a cross-distribution issue instead of just a Ubuntu or Debian or Fedora or insert_distro issue.
22:52<foka>parallelday, Of course, things get ugly if the libraries/executable are mixed (some 32-bit, some 64-bit), as that would usually fail.
22:53<foka>parallelday, What problem did you encounter exactly?
22:53<abrotman>parallelday: IIRC, win64 has basically the entire win32 stuff somewhere .. been awhile since i looked at it
22:53-!-mercutio22 [~mercutio2@201-1-2-181.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #debian
22:53<parallelday>I got Nero4Linux to install using the force architecture command for dpkg. But not emulators. I know that emus are usually coded in assembly, which is architecture important.
22:54<sney>in system32, naturally
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22:54<parallelday>How much extra space would it take up to fetch ia-32 bit libraries for installing ia-32 bit apps that aren't ported to x64?
22:55<parallelday>I wouldn't think it'd matter much in today's world of increasing HD space.
22:55<foka>parallelday, Ubuntu is usually fine in this area too, but of course, things like Adobe flash plugin (only 32-bit version available) being run with a 64-bit wrapper is tricky, hehe
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22:55<parallelday>I thought Flash was released for x64 Linux.
22:56<abrotman>kind of
22:56<parallelday>it does. but it's only for Linux according to Wikipedia.
22:56<abrotman>i think the current state is 'alpha'
22:56<parallelday>the main problem with Flash I've had is that it randomly will stop loading altogether, forcing me to restart my browser.
22:56<parallelday>I don't remember having that problem on my ia-32 computer.
22:57<abrotman>shocker
22:57<bja>!es-social sney
22:57<dpkg>sney: Este canal es de ayuda con ordenadores en Ingles. Si no necesitas ayuda con tu ordenador, por favor vaya a otro canal. Si necesitas soporte con Debian en Espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
22:57<EmleyMoor>parallelday: I saw that with both i386 and amd64
22:57-!-streuner_ [foobar@p5DD39579.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian
22:57<parallelday>supposidly in the next major release they're going to have those issues fixed.
22:58<sney>thanks bja
22:58<EmleyMoor>(only difference was that the place where flash was supposed to be was black on i386, white on amd64)
22:58<parallelday>I would like to see Gnash get up to the level where it can replace Flash.
22:58<foka>parallelday, Thankfully, no such problem on my Ubuntu 9.10 amd64 installation; but I saw another problem: Clicking on flash window with the mouse is unresponsive for certain website. Oh well...
22:58<parallelday>Don't know if taht's ever going to happen though.
22:59<abrotman>luckily ubuntu problems belong in #ubuntu
22:59<parallelday>It might for videos, but probably not interactive games.
22:59<parallelday>Luckily I don't play Flash games.
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23:00<foka>parallelday, What do you intend to do exactly with your upcoming Debian amd64 installation? How do you plan to "mix" 32-bit binaries?
23:00<parallelday>Anyone try piping Flash videos to an external player rather than using Flash Player?
23:00<EmleyMoor>There's still no Shockwave for Linux - that's annoying
23:00-!-MikeyD [~MikeyD@cpe-72-225-11-110.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
23:01<foka>parallelday, apt-get install clive? :-)
23:01<parallelday>I wasn't really planning on using any ia-32 bit apps. I was just asking why the difference between x64 Windows working better with ia-32 apps and x64 Linux, not working as well.
23:02<parallelday>I guess because Windows is less fragmented and it's easier to make their limited libraries support ia-32 than on Linux where there tons and tons of libraries that would need to support it.
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23:03<kop>Where does kde keep it's application counter that puts "most used" applications at the top of the menu? I switched apps and want a reset.
23:04<sney>probably in ~/.kde somewhere
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23:10<kop>sney: Possibly .kde/share/config/kickerrc
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23:21<timus>hi all
23:21<timus>new here...
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23:22<timus>i want to learn more about Linux especially debian....
23:23<ml|>timus: /msg dpkg reference
23:23<bja>timus: /msg dpkg unix lessons
23:23<timus>i am upgrading to squeeze
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23:23<bja>stop
23:23<bja>First thing get your basics right
23:23<user_>jember'
23:24<bja>Get your system to work like you expect it, then go looking for trouble
23:24<ml|>timus: first learn about debian then move to testing if you like
23:25<timus>i am looking trouble :)
23:25<timus>i have been using linux for a while... actually long time
23:25<timus>on and off for probably 10 yrs
23:25<ml|>well have fun then
23:25<timus>and I wanna deep dive
23:25<timus>to the bare metal
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23:26<bja>timus: linus from scratch
23:26<ml|>read what I suggested to learn about debian
23:26<bja>timus: or do as ml| says
23:27<timus>i did gentoo before.... i think stage 2...
23:27<sprink>join #c
23:27<sprink>eh. fail
23:27<ml|>or do as bja suggests if you want real trouble
23:27<timus>i am now trying to look for issues in my squeeze system.
23:28<timus>in fact i am using squeeze now...
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23:28<sprink>bye #debian. thanks for the help
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23:28<bja>timus: Why not go all the way up to experimental
23:28<timus>experimental ... hmmmm
23:28<ml|>dpkg: slap bja
23:28*dpkg strikes a resounding *THWAP* across bja's face
23:28<timus>i want to help with squeeze though...
23:29<timus>in any way possible.....
23:29<ml|>I try too
23:29<timus>anyway... here is my first problem....
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23:29<timus>i am using gnome....
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23:30<bja>!nuke ml|
23:30*dpkg fires an 80 ton thermonuclear weapon at ml|
23:30<timus>i noticed that rubber band selection is not working in my case
23:32<timus>i know this would be one of the least to worry for hardcore programmers....
23:32-!-kerin [~kerin@c-75-69-38-180.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #debian
23:32<timus>but this is something that should be working one way or another
23:32<ml|>wait for a gnome user, for help with that
23:33<timus>note that latest debian 5.0 is working out of the box... same for ubuntu 9.10 and Mint8
23:34<timus>it was only when i have upgraded my system to squeeze that rubber band selection is not working
23:34<ml|>have you checked bts?
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23:34<timus>not yet.. i will do that
23:34<timus>now...
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23:43<timus>can't find it in bts
23:44<timus>can someone confirm pls that rubberband effect is not working in gnome?
23:44<timus>i mean rubberband effect during selection
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23:45<adb>witch gnome?
23:46<ml|>*which
23:46<ml|>adb: seems like testing
23:47<adb>*which testing ?
23:47<ml|>as in debian release testing
23:48-!-afurlan [~afurlan@189.34.72.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:48<timus>gnome that comes with squeeze....
23:48<adb>ml|, explain him that testing is for testers
23:48<timus>it shows 2.28.2
23:48<ml|>adb: he knows
23:49<ml|>timus: you know right, what testing is?
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23:49<timus>a little, you mean debian testing right?
23:49<ml|>yes
23:50<timus>squeeze and testing should be the same as of now... right?
23:50<adb>ml|, bts -> timus
23:50<ml|>yes they are thesame
23:50<ml|>adb: he checked and did not find anything
23:50<timus>yes... i did check bts...
23:51<timus>and I will keep checking using different keywords...
23:51<ml|>timus: you might want to file a bug report with reportbug
23:51<timus>but i would appreciate if anyone can confirm that rubberband selection effect is broken in squeeze....
23:51<ml|>timus: /msg dpkg reportbug
23:51-!-azeem [~mbanck@pD9E1DFD5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
23:51<ml|>like I said wait for a gnome user using testing
23:52<ml|>if you don't get a responce ask again in a bit and if you still don't maybe report it
23:53<adb>timus, or report, as it's done right now ..
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23:53<timus>i will probably... i search bts more...
23:54<ml|>timus: things like these are the reason it's called testing
23:54<timus>yap... i can understand. but i don't like to file duplicate issues too :)
23:54<ml|>if know one reports it, it won't get fixed if it's a real bug
23:55<ml|>yes, look some more if you like
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---Logclosed Tue Mar 09 00:00:04 2010