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#debian IRC Logs for 2010-08-17

---Logopened Tue Aug 17 00:00:36 2010
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00:01<franki->wlt333: I guess; it manages windows, that's about it. ;) But seriously, I use it because it's easy to customise, and also fast and stable.
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00:06<Willly>Hi there! I have a few problems with my AMD x86-64 machine. In the first place, I am having trouble getting it to boot on my newly-compiled kernel. Thus far, it merely turns its nose up at the kernel as soon as grub gets done loading itself.
00:06<wlt333>Ahhh, so equivalent to icewm? In simplicity? Or awesomwm?
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00:09<MrFrood>wlt333: it depends on what you want out of a WM, I used openbox for a long time, it was a great my first WM after using DE's because there is lots of stuff out there about it
00:10<wlt333>Yeah, I will check ALL suggestions out
00:11<MrFrood>wlt333: I now use dwm because it's small fast and confuses the hell out of everybody else
00:11<wlt333>Lol, nice!
00:13<franki->I should note, I am sortadi of in the "my first WM" camp, although I do have experience with other WMs, I've never really enjpyed tiling WMs. Although I do do nearly everything in Openbox with keyboard shortcuts.
00:13<simonft>Tilling WM's are awesome
00:13<simonft>and so is awosome
00:14<simonft>It's an end to having to micro-manage your windows
00:14<franki->Well I've tried to like them a couple of times and it's never felt right. :) Maybe I'll change my mind one day though
00:14<wlt333>Awesomewm is pretty awesome. To simplistic for me, though
00:15<MrFrood>I never liked tiling WM's until I got a wide screen monitor (they always felt a bit cramped (IMHO))
00:16<franki->That could be something to do with it (I'm only on a laptop, unfortunately)
00:16<simonft>wlt333: what do ou meen too simplistic?
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00:17<MrFrood>I hate to think what you think of dwm if awsome is too simplistic...
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00:18<wlt333>It's pretty hard for m to use awesome because I like having a status bar with a dropdown menu of you applications
00:18<wlt333>Im on a laptop also
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00:22<franki->Hmm, Openbox doesn't come with a drop-down menu by default, although there might be one that you could use, it has a "context menu"(?) if you click on the desktop. Personally I do use a panel (tint2) but most of the applications I use are either in my autostart of on keyboard shortcuts.
00:22<wlt333>And a PowerPC, that means no right-click and missing some function keys
00:23<MrFrood>wlt333: I got a menu on dwm by using a version of fbpanel that has been modifyed to work with dwm, it provides menu + system tray
00:23<wlt333>Ahhh, see. I can't stand thy, for some reason
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00:24<wlt333>MrFrood: I like that idea... I will test thy out tomorrow.
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00:26<MrFrood>wlt333: see for details (its in french so you may want to use a translate tool)
00:26<wlt333>Ok, will do l8r
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01:27<kincho>Does anyone here know how to set up evolution to send\recieve mail with hotmail?
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02:26<austinium>hi, is debian live a live-cum-install CD/DVD?
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02:31<Hydroxide>austinium: not inherently, but that feature is available now. (not sure if it's been enabled in the default images - it's pretty new - but the Debian package that builds the images supports it)
02:32<austinium>Hydroxide: is it a GUI installer?
02:34<Hydroxide>austinium: it's the usual debian installer, which supports operation in a gui or not in a gui. I don't know which of those modes are supported in the live version. I'm familiar with both debian live and the debian installer, but not the combination. check the documentation or wiki or manual
02:34<Hydroxide>austinium: is a good starting place for your exploration
02:34<Hydroxide>austinium: it's very usable whether or not you use the gui - you still have a text-mode full-screen ui even when you don't have actual graphics
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02:35<Hydroxide>well, unless you're using something like a serial console, maybe, but well, somehow I doubt you are :)
02:36<austinium>Hydroxide: iam trying to find out if it is possible to boot from a Debian Live CD/DVD and then install it onto hard disk as in Ubuntu
02:36<austinium>never been on a serial console :)
02:37<Hydroxide>austinium: right :) and the answer to your question is "yes, it's possible". I don't know if it's possible with the pre-compiled images, but Debian Live can do it
02:37<Hydroxide>the install process will be the usual debian install process, not ubuntu's current default installer
02:37<austinium>so the user can simply download a Debian Live image, boot into it and then install it(the installer is a part of the Live CD)?
02:38<austinium>or would he/she have to reboot into d-i after having tried the live image
02:38<Hydroxide>if the particular image the user chooses or builds includes that feature, yes
02:38<Hydroxide>images with this feature have an icon on the desktop
02:38<Hydroxide>for the installer
02:39<austinium>ok, cool...iam guessing its a lot faster than d-i
02:39<Hydroxide>no, it's still d-i
02:40<Hydroxide>however I wouldn't say that d-i is particularly slow - of course it depends on what options you choose, either during the install process or before
02:41<Hydroxide>and on your hardware
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02:41<austinium>but live installer tend to be faster don't they
02:41<austinium>than say d-i
02:41<austinium>or CentOS/RHEL's installers
02:42<Hydroxide>I wouldn't say so either. they do give you fewer options in the default view than d-i does, but either can be used with more or fewer questions
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02:44<Web-sidux94>Hello are there any other good repos to get games other then the offical repos?
02:44<austinium>try Urban Terror if you are looking for FPS
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02:44<Web-sidux94>austinium: yep good game i like it:)
02:44<austinium>iam not sure if its in the repos
02:45<Web-sidux94>austinium: think i got it from mepis repos
02:45<Hydroxide>austinium: good luck - I'm going to sleep now. good night! #debian-live might be another resource you could contact, though people in debian are in all different time zones so you might want to lurk there for several hours or more to get a response
02:46<austinium>Hydroxide: thanks, i'll read up on it. Good night
02:46<Hydroxide>austinium: however it may not be a user support channel - I'm not sure whether they are solely focused on developing or also on tech support
02:46<Hydroxide>austinium: 'night!
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02:48<Web-sidux94>anybody running sid i am latest:)
02:48<austinium>iam on lenny & squeeze
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02:49<jpinx-eeepc>austinium: hopefully on two separate machines?
02:49<austinium>yes they are :)
02:49<Web-sidux94>austinium: yea i like them to,but i like to try latest and greatest:)
02:49<dpkg>Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>.
02:51<Web-sidux94>dpkg: yea i hear ya but breaking my box teaches me new things.but really i usually have no problems with sid
02:51<dpkg>You are person #1 to send an unparseable request, Web-sidux94
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02:53<Web-sidux94>anybody have compiz fully working on a 4850 with 10.7 drivers.i cant get a few effects to work
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03:31<cesurasean1>Can someone tell me why nxclient fails to load my desktop from this error message? -
03:31<mixalis>hi, i am using debian testing and i have install usbview. when i go to start usbview i get this message "Can not open the file /proc/bus/usb/file Verify that you have USB compiled into your kernel, have the USB core modules loaded, and have the usbdevfs filesystem mounted"
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03:35<jpinx-eeepc>mixalis: paste the output of cat uname -a
03:35<cesurasean1>no one can tell me why this does not work?
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03:36<dpkg>[nx] NX technology, a computer program handling remote X Window System connections. Like <VNC> but faster, with security, multiple clients, partially <non-free>. Ask me about <freenx>. #nx on
03:37<jpinx-eeepc>cesurasean1: no idea - but chase down the factoid to see if there is anything relevant
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03:40<cesurasean1>that's all i get
03:40<cesurasean1>i found this:
03:40<cesurasean1>but, i cannot seem to find /var/lib/nxserver
03:40<cesurasean1>doesn't seem to exist
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03:42<jpinx-eeepc>cesurasean1: re-install ?
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03:43<cesurasean1>it's a fresh install of nxserver
03:43<cesurasean1>and, this is the error i am getting.
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03:46<jpinx-eeepc>cesurasean1: now do the rest of the legwork yourself ;)
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03:48<cesurasean1>that doesn't seem like the right fix for this
03:48<cesurasean1>what will that do?
03:48<jpinx-eeepc>cesurasean1: now do the rest of the legwork yourself ;)
03:48<jpinx-eeepc>cesurasean1: I am not here to hold your hnd- do some reading.....
03:49*jpinx-eeepc lunches.....
03:49<cesurasean1>those pages do not seem to contain the error i am getting?
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03:51<jpinx-eeepc>cesurasean1: the first error in our paste is NX> 596 ERROR -- google that
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04:06<cesurasean1>is there a linux to windows remote control utility other than no machine?
04:06<cesurasean1>i can't seem to get it working.
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04:09<weasel>rdesktop? vnc?
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04:11<jpinx-eeepc>cesurasean1: I used rdesktop
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04:17<cesurasean1>I want to load my linux desktop onto my Windows machine.
04:17<cesurasean1>not the other way around!
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04:19<Efreak>cesurasean1: xrdp
04:19<Efreak>have fun setting it up
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04:30<cesurasean1>i connected with tightvncserver.
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04:32<jm_>so nx is still a pain to setup
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04:34*the-dude had zero problems installing nx
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05:58<E1ephant>can you help me?
05:59<E1ephant>i tried to install squeeze from flash. i made zcat boot.img.gz > flashdrive, then i copied netinst-cd.iso to my flash
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06:00<twb>Where is $DEBIAN_FRONTEND documented?
06:00<E1ephant>when i was running it, the installer hevent found my .iso neither on my flash nor on my hdd drive
06:03<twb>E1ephant: it must be in the root directory
06:03<E1ephant>yes it is on the root on my flash
06:03<E1ephant>or you mean it should be on the root on my hdd?
06:03<twb>E1ephant: what filesystem type?
06:04<twb>I haven't done that kind of install for a long time, but that sounds like it should work
06:04<twb>Suggest reading the installation guide
06:04<twb>locklace: thanks.
06:04<E1ephant>twb, thx
06:04<weasel>twb: man 7 debconf
06:05<twb>I was wondering if I could hand it a priority list, but I realized that it'll fall back from newt to readline anyway
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06:07<twb>What I'd *actually* like is for debconf to only complain about DEBIAN_FRONTEND=dialog and whiptail not being installed *if it was actually going to prompt for something*
06:08<weasel>just install dialog on all your machines :)
06:08<weasel>that's at least what I do
06:09<twb>weasel: the case I'm dealing with right now is building "emdebian live" images to put in /boot/rescue.squashfs :-)
06:09<weasel>ok, maybe not then :)
06:10<twb>That's what I do when I'm building without --debugging
06:10<twb>I'll just put up with extra noise from perl
06:11<weasel>DEBIAN_FRONTEND=editor EDITOR=/bin/cat :)
06:11<twb>It's the same kind of annoying as when you ssh into a Debian router and perl complains constantly because locales isn't installed, but OpenSSH defaults to propagating $LANG
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06:12<weasel>oh yes. I hate perl for that
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06:13<twb>And dpkg now whinges when devpts isn't mounted in your chroots
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06:13<twb>weasel: it's as much OpenSSH's fault -- Debian has patched openssh to propagate $LANG by default if you ssh from debian to debian
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06:14<weasel>I'm not sure it's a patch
06:14<twb>I suppose I should just set LANG=C in my .profile, so when I ssh to root@foo, it DTRT :-P
06:14<weasel>it's probably just a different default value in the config file
06:14<weasel>just remove SendEnv from your ssh_configs
06:14<weasel>anyway, food.
06:15<twb>weasel: it's in root's ssh_config, not mine
06:15<twb>Maybe I can unsendenv
06:15<twb>Er, by root I mean /etc/ssh/ssh_config
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06:17<cthuluh>-o SendEnv=no ?
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06:17<twb>I guess
06:17<twb>It's not like I care much about OTHER environment variables being sent
06:18<felixs_>twb: or use ~/.ssh/config for these things.
06:18<twb>Believe me, I know about .ssh/config
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06:24<jerryclunsford>where can I find stored passwords for iceweasel?
06:24<twb>jerryclunsford: ~/.mozilla
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06:32<jerryclunsford>ok I found the key3.db file what can I use to open it can I use mysql?
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06:41<twb>I imagine that file(1) will tell you it's an sqlite database.
06:43<jerryclunsford>don't have that one is it a debian package?
06:44<smv>Anyone has any idea why is this in synaptic 0.70~pre1?
06:45<twb>smv: that's text/html, not image/png.
06:47<twb>I think you meant
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06:48<twb>smv: it looks like you're doing something with an Ubuntu repository. It isn't safe to enable Ubuntu repositories on a Debian system.
06:48<jerryclunsford>twb: in the package manager would that be sqlite or sqlite3
06:48<twb>jerryclunsford: what are you trying to do?
06:49<twb>comenha: I think you left your Turkish input method turned on :-)
06:49<jerryclunsford>I need to recover a stored password from iceweasel can't remember it and need it on another machine
06:49<comenha>yeah :D
06:49<twb>jerryclunsford: if iceweasel is doing its job, you won't be able to get the password out of it.
06:49<comenha>you understand i'm turkish :)
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06:50<jerryclunsford>firefox says they are stored in the key3.db
06:50<themill>twb: you might like to HEAD that url you just pasted.
06:50<comenha>i' new here :)
06:50<twb>themill: haha
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06:51<themill>twb: is quirky like that. They don't want to be used as a generic image store by other people so require the right referrer
06:51<twb>themill: it looks like "" does something hairy and horrible
06:51*themill nods
06:51<twb>I fetched the image with a plain wget, but I guess it was in my cache
06:51<twb>solution: don't use
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06:53<twb>jerryclunsford: well, whatever. The package you want is "sqlite3".
06:55<rpetre>twb: the passwords are further encoded, haven't found the algorithm so far
06:55<twb>rpetre: right
06:55<twb>I imagine they're symmetrically encrypted against a master passphrase
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06:55<twb>They're have to be recoverable, because otherwise you wouldn't be able to send them as clear text to random stupid websites
06:56<jerryclunsford>well then i guess I'll forget about it and work off of two computers till I can find the password.
06:57<rpetre>twb: of course, but i haven't found yet a way to read them directly without firefox/iceweasel
06:57<twb>Personally I don't trust moco as far as I can throw them
06:57<rpetre>i don't use a master pawwsord, but they're mangled anyway
06:58<jm_>mozilla corp i guess
06:58<twb>Mozilla Corporation, the guys that make all those crappy gecko-based apps
06:58<jerryclunsford>you can't set ice weasel to display the password instead of dots can you?
06:58<rpetre>the mofo people do it ;)
06:58<rpetre>the moco just defend the names and stuff
06:58<jpinx-eeepc>jerryclunsford: just copy over that users mozilla dir
06:58<jm_>jerryclunsford: you can
06:58<twb>rpetre: haha, mofo
06:58<rpetre>twb: :)
06:59<twb>What a confluence
06:59<rpetre>coincidence? i think not!
06:59<jm_>ahh you mean when sending shit? you should be able to sniff that with httpfox
06:59<twb>jm_: or wireshark, I expect
06:59<rpetre>anyway, i used this iceweasel profile for so long it's hard to use anything else
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07:00<twb>All these stupid young people that think HTTP/HTML is an *application* deployment framework
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07:01<rpetre>twb: i know the word, i'm just not evrly familiar with the subtext (and the wiktionary page doesn't help), but thanks
07:01<rpetre>(evrly probably means very mixed with really, my fingers have a mind of their own)
07:02<twb>It was a poor word choice anyway
07:03<jerryclunsford>Thanks all I didn't even think to use wire shark I got it.
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07:06<rony>HELLO i m new in linux
07:07<rony>i want to know about linux distros
07:09<devil>rony: distrowatch is a good start
07:09<twb>rony: what do you want to know?
07:10<rony>i want to know about various linux operating system
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07:11<smv>twb, the link I gave is not a direct one, indeed, but I ment what I said. *No* i don't have any ubuntu repositories enabled, only main contrib and non-free.
07:11<rony>i want to know that which linux os is best for laptop
07:11<devil>good question in a debian channel :)
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07:12<locklace>!start a distro war
07:12<dpkg>Ubuntu is an ancient African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'.
07:12<twb>rony: whatever your linux-using friends know best
07:12-!-zeromon [~zeromon@94-167.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #debian
07:12<twb>rony: since things WILL go wrong, and you WILL ask them to fix it
07:14<rony>what is the main different in ubuntu and debian
07:14<twb>rony: the main difference is in ideology
07:14<locklace>the userbase
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07:15<smv>rony, ubuntu is based on debian, but they've got it all wrong.
07:15<smv>!why debian
07:15<dpkg>Debian strives to maintain your freedom whilst also paying close attention to the technical aspects of making a great OS. Debian is stable, upgradable and well tested. See also (archived at . As an added bonus, you get to ask questions in #debian.
07:15<rony>ideology mean ?
07:17<twb>rony: Ubuntu cares more about newbies, corporates and desktops, and less about freedom, correctness, quality, flexibility, experienced users and non-desktop systems.
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07:19<rony>ok thanks
07:19<twb>We might be little-endians and canonical (ubuntu) might be big-endians, but we're both still eating eggs, wheras BSD eats toast and Microsoft eats gravel.
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07:19<smv>twb, actually they say to care more about newbies and desktops, but they care mostly for corporate
07:19<twb>I guess that might be confusing if you aren't up on your Swift
07:20<twb>smv: they sure as shit don't care about corporates running Ubuntu Server
07:20<twb>Or at least, they aren't very good at it
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07:21<user>привет флудерасты
07:21<twb>!tell user -about ru
07:21<smv>twb, then they don't care about anything, because newbies and desktops are not their thing either.
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07:21<Guest710>!tell user
07:22<smv>!tell Guest710 -about selftell
07:22<Guest710>кто нить есть?
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07:24<twb>smv: my anecdotal evidence suggests "normals" are happier with OOTB Ubuntu than OOTB Debian. YMMV.
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07:28<simonw>Moving Lenny config from 386 to 64bit system, our apache processes have grown by 200MB in top. pmap output suggests every shared library has an extra 1020K or 2044K is this a figment of pmap, or do I need to know something about 64bit Linux?
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07:29<jm_>simonw: same here, I just ignore it
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07:30<smv>twb, if you compare lenny with 10.04 indeed. Anyway it became OT. I can asure you that no human that will compare sid with 10.04 will think twice what to chose.
07:31<twb>smv: I would've been comparing 8.04 to 5
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07:32<simonw>jm_: what you think this is a figment of the reporting?
07:32<smv>simonw, it seems that amd64 uses more ram than i386, not that much though. i don't know the details.
07:32<twb>smv: it depends on the app
07:32<twb>x86-64 addresses are, obviously, twice as long.
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07:36<simonw>I expect a little more memory usage, but 40MB to 250MB seems a tad excessive. Anyway being a virtual server I've quadrupalled the RAM to speed testing
07:36<smv>twb, 8.04 compared with 5, it's still an unfair comparation, as they built 8.04 of the then sid. i guess squeeze alpha 1 compared with 10.4 would be more fair.
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07:37<simonw>But pmap is suggesting some sort of blocking allocation..... which would explain the difference between 80MB and 250MB, except it suggests it is per shared library, which should surely be "shared".
07:37<jm_>simonw: I never investigated this in detail, I wouldn't worry about pmap anyway
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07:40<dh>hi - totally new to this - anyone know about installing an IRC server on debian?
07:42<Torsten_W>apt-get install one
07:42<petemc>apt-cache search ircd, pick one, install it
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07:44<jm_>you're welcome dh
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07:46<raph_ael>and enjoy ddos :)
07:46<twb>raph_ael: last time I looked, they tended to bind only to lo by default
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07:46<twb>I installed one because it was easier than trying to share a screen session
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07:46<petemc>how is sharing a screen session not easy?
07:47<twb>I can't remember
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07:47<twb>Probably the other guy was fat-fingering in the root shell window
07:47<raph_ael>twb: never tried an irc server, i'm quite weak with irc controls
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07:58<simonw>jm_: I think pmap is reporting page block allocations as virtual memory. So it is going to report much larger virtual memory usage.
07:58<simonw>jm_: Next figure out why the one bit of C code recompiled isn't working :(
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08:35<sander_m>Hi all. I have a problem with find and xargs on Sqeeze. Something simple like: `find . -name "*.php" | xargs` does not work. When substituting `xargs -t` I can see that xargs is not splitting up the output from the find command. Any ideas?
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08:38<twb>sander_m: your problem is xargs is dumb
08:38<sander_m>twb: How so?
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08:38<twb>find -name \*.php -exec f {} +
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08:38<twb>-exec {} + is variadic
08:39<sander_m>twb: Okay, I get that. But why is xargs not doing what it says on the tin?
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08:40<ShapeShifter499>is this channel different(in terms of people who join) than the #debian one on freenode?
08:40<rpetre>ShapeShifter499: yes, different networks
08:40<twb>sander_m: I don't know, or cre.
08:41<ShapeShifter499>ok just asking
08:41<ShapeShifter499>I'll come here, I kind of hate some of the people(which thank god don't seem to go here) on the other channel
08:42<jm_>perhaps you need to try and use -n with xargs or somesuch
08:43<twb>ShapeShifter499: so use /ignore
08:43<sander_m>jm_: Yup, that works. -n 1 did the trick.
08:44<avu>the only way to use xargs with find (which you really don't need to as twb pointed out) is through -print0 and xargs -0 :)
08:44<avu>everything else breaks in some weird cases
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08:44<jm_>sander_m: so the problem doesn't seem to be in xargs
08:45<sander_m>avu: Even find -print0 and xargs -0 didn't work for me.
08:45<twb>sander_m: try #bash on Freenode, perhaps
08:45<sander_m>jm_: I vaguely remember that -n 1 was the default for xargs (some day, some time)
08:45<avu>sander_m, then, as jm_ said, your problem doesn't seem to be in xargs
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08:45<jm_>sander_m: naah
08:45<avu>(also, just use -exec ..)
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08:45<sander_m>I'm using -exec now :-)
08:46<twb>I remember on a NAS once I had to say find [...] | tr '\n' '\0' | xargs -0, because find was crippled
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08:47<sander_m>twb: That's just downright scary...
08:48<twb>I just had to hope the OS X end users weren't dumb enough to put \n in filenames
08:48<twb>They *were* dumb enough to put \cdot and whitespace and stuff in thre
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08:50<ShapeShifter499>anyone here believe my system could break after the next upgrade with the following settings, /etc/apt/preferences --> , /etc/apt/sources.list --> , AND /etc/apt/apt.conf -->
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09:17<betinho>I would like to monitoring http traffic such a request header and answer, body, errors in a low level way; anyone can suggest a tool for that? More specifically, i would like to debugging http post file request from a html form.
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09:18<simonw>betinho: Firebug for Firefox, and Webdeveloper toolbar has a nice form option. Or do you specifically mean server side?
09:18<Elessar>Iceweasel with some extension?
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09:21<twb>I use curl -v for that
09:21<betinho>simonw: server side
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09:22<chewie>anyone running vmware workstation on backtrack 4
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09:22<[machine]>betinho: use a mitm proxy.. burp, webscarab etc come to mind
09:23<twb>!tell chewie -about backtrack
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09:24<chewie>what question you have about it
09:25<bremner>chewie: look for a private message from dpkg, explaining backtrack is not supported here
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09:26<chewie>thanks bremner
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09:32<betinho>I need a solution without proxy, in fact what i need is a tool that can listen http port 80 and print in stdout or save in a logfile. Can i use netcat or wireshark for that?
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09:34<hfr>betinho: if you would like to do this in transparent way then no... otherwise use tcpdump with appropriate options!
09:35<hfr>i mean.. transparent -> tcpdump, non transparent -> netcat
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09:43<betinho>hfr: thanks, i will try tcpdump ;)
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09:44<hfr>-A, i guess
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09:58<klando>Hello, I failled to remember how to reduce the usable RAM with linux 2.6. I want to emulate a 32GB RAM machine with a 72GB RAM server. Ideas ?
09:59<locklace>klando: boot with mem=32G
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10:00<klando>locklace, tks, no way to di it 'hot' ?
10:00<klando>usefull anyway:)
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10:02<johfel>klando: If you want to simulate less memory only for some processes (but not for the whole system), you can use control groups.
10:03<Alvin>where can I get help with bash programming?
10:04<klando>johfel, ah yes, I forgot about hat, but I need to reduce the buffer cache. I'll boot mem=32GB
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10:05<klando>Alvin, hum,
10:05<Alvin>is there an IRC channel
10:06<klando>ah, probably on freenode
10:06<Alvin>thanks I'll check it out
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11:22<grimnar>Is it normal to have 2 dhclients running on the same ethernet card?
11:22<twb>If that card has two interfaces, sure
11:22<grimnar>But it only has one interface
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11:24<grimnar>My interfaces
11:24<grimnar>NetworkManager is not set up
11:24<grimnar>And will /etc/network/interfaces still "run" if I disable NetworkManager?
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11:27<twb>grimnar: IME, NM is the #1 cause of all network problems.
11:27<grimnar>Yeah, I know
11:27<twb>I encourage you to purge it, and to burn down the author's house.
11:27<grimnar>Så my interfaces will still run?
11:28<grimnar>I guess purging NetworkManager will kill KDE
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11:29<themill>grimnar: is this lenny or squeeze? If it's lenny, then network-manager won't touch that interface at all. (And dns-nameservers won't do anything either; /msg dpkg override dns)
11:29<grimnar>themill: squeeze
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11:30<themill>grimnar: I know nothing about n-m in squeeze.... check /usr/share/doc/network-manager/ in that case.
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11:34<grimnar>I remove NM and still have 2 dhclient-daemons running :(
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12:45<XTF>How does one install a .deb and it's dependencies? dpkg -i doesn't handle the dependencies.
12:47<themill>XTF: "dpkg -i foo.deb; aptitude install foo" or "dpkg -i foo.deb; apt-get -f install" or "gdebi foo.deb".
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13:27<ah13k>is anyone here?
13:27<retrospectacus>yes lots
13:27<dpkg>Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
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13:28<ah13k>...thank you, sorry
13:28<meglaw>does anyone use centerim
13:29<ah13k>I use emacs login here, so i want to know if it is wrong well...that all.
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13:34<dpkg>popcon is, like, the Debian Popularity contest, the basis for what packages appear on the first few CDs/DVDs etc (by rank). Install the popularity-contest package to participate. See the results at -- See the FAQ at . Statistics are also available via IRC, /msg judd popcon $package
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13:46<grummund>hi, anyone know of a debian or linux app to emulate an HPGL plotter?
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13:55<hdon>hi all :) i want to replace my wireless access point with something more accessible to hacking. i really like the /etc/network/interfaces configuration found in Debian. is there a particular subsystem or software that this is a part of? i would like to understand how it fits into the system a little bit better!
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13:56<hdon>looks like it's part of the package ifupdown
13:56<osirisx>anyone here with experience of using live-magic to build a Debian Live CD on a squeeze installation
13:57<kop>!tell osirisx about ask
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13:57<blarson>hdon: you could get something that can run emdebian
13:58<petemc>openwrt is very hackable, and has a similar system with /etc/config/network /etc/config/wireless etc
13:58<osirisx>ok kop :) - we were a bit unlucky on Sunday
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13:59<osirisx>basically I am trying to create Debian LiveCD using live-magic. but at the end of the procedure it says there was an error and no image is generated
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14:00*hdon googles emdebian
14:00<hdon>petemc, yes but i am more familiar with debian :D
14:00<osirisx>looking through the generated log file I see something about mdadm failing but I don't have RAID or the necessary options in my kernel
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14:01<osirisx>does this all mean I can't use live-magic and have to build it manually?
14:01<petemc>hdon: fair enough, was just a suggestion
14:01<hdon>petemc, i am also considering it :)
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14:01<petemc>you may be able to shoehorn it onto your current access point
14:04<hdon>petemc, part of my desire for better hacking is a system with less limited resources. i am from the school of implement software first, optimize to smallest possible hardware requirements last
14:04<hdon>right now i have a wrt54g and i'd like something more like a tiny PC with a few GB HDD and at least 256 MB RAM
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14:12<osirisx>ok let me ask a different question - if I build a 'lenny' live CD with kernel 2.6.26 will I be able repartition, LVM and format in ext4 my HDs?
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14:12<osirisx>.. given that I understand ext4 went gold in kernel 2.6.28
14:13<hdon>osirisx, i believe that was true for older versions... do you suspect this feature may have disappeared?
14:13<hdon>"went gold?"
14:13<locklace>osirisx: if by "gold" you mean "wildly unstable"
14:14<osirisx>I mean I understand it was classed as "stable" from 2.6.28 onwards
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14:14<locklace>by who
14:14<osirisx>and some distributions even started to use it by default
14:14<locklace>yes, the unremittingly dumb ones
14:14<osirisx>ok one moment I will dig up the web page
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14:15<avu>you have to declare things stable to get enough beta testers so that it will be *really* stable a while later :)
14:15<avu>so don't call the distros that chose it by default dumb, they and their users do all the beta testing for us ;)
14:15<devil>avu: full ack
14:16<devil>and yes, we use ext4 in sidux as default since ~8 months, no problem reports so far
14:16<osirisx>see General Information paragraph
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14:18<locklace>referring to ext4 as "stable" as of .28 is zealously optimistic
14:18<osirisx>sure I understand the risk involved
14:18<osirisx>but at the end of the day my system is a test system on a Thinkpad T41
14:18<locklace>and by zealous i mean what you get when you let loose a cardinal in a crack farm
14:18<devil>locklace: i agree with 'as of .28'
14:19<osirisx>so I backup and can afford to lose it and rebuild
14:19<osirisx>but my key question is ...
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14:19<osirisx>if I am forced to build the live CD from 'lenny' and use 2.6.26
14:20<osirisx>does this mean I won't be able to rebuild my LVM system formatted in ext4?
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14:23<osirisx>or is the important thing the version efs2progs that I use?
14:23<osirisx>(because once the system is back on-line my standard kernel is 2.6.32)
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15:10<christopher>im back!
15:10<na5uta-work>wb christopher
15:11<na5uta-work>welcome back <.<
15:12<christopher>anyone heard of palringo
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15:44<wako>hello evryone
15:44<wako>do you know if are a chanel in spanish?
15:44<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat
15:45<wako>thanks so much
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16:01<Nazcafan>Has anyone experienced trouble with a non-responding tab key using iceweasel?
16:02<Nazcafan>ctrl+tab works (switches tabs) but I can not navigate between fields or url bar and search bar using tab anymore
16:04<s_i_m>well, it works here (squeeze)
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16:05<Nazcafan>I am using squeeze too
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16:05<Nazcafan>wonder what has gone wrong in my install
16:05<Nazcafan>I am using the experimental iceweasel
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16:09<osirisx>Nazcafan have you tried dev google-chrome fro linux?
16:09<Nazcafan>chromium from experimental
16:09<Nazcafan>It's good
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16:10<Nazcafan>but I prefer iceweasel for some reason
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16:10<Nazcafan>maybe habits die hard…
16:10<osirisx>it is good - I was surprised - it runs rock solid for me
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16:10<osirisx>fair enough, I guess if you use a lot of addons
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16:11<sorpigal>I just bought a laptop (hp dv8t) and things pretty much work, but wireless doesn't. It's an intel chip and iwlagn loads, kern.log says "radio enabled" but iwlist wlan0 scan reports that the interface does not support scanning. What can I try?
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16:13<osirisx>sorpigal - does it connect?
16:13<sorpigal>and yes, I the firmware is reported as loaded
16:13<sorpigal>osirisx, no, I cannot even scan for an AP
16:13<osirisx>do you have network-manager installed?
16:13<Justin_A>sorpigal: what happens if you do iwconfig wlan0 essid any;ifconfig wlan0 up
16:13<sorpigal>osirisx, if course not
16:13<sorpigal>Justin_A: trying...
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16:14<osirisx>well the easiest option might be to comment out all of the interface references in /etc/network/interfaces
16:14<sorpigal>Justin_A: no message reported, iwconfig still reports Not Associated
16:14<osirisx>and install network-manager
16:14<osirisx>and let it take care of it
16:14<sorpigal>osirisx: except that then I would be using network manager.
16:14<Justin_A>do you have any open access points in range? that should definitely associate
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16:15<sorpigal>osirisx: I don't see how network manager would work if my hardware isn't working. If my hadware *is* working then I should be able to use it without network manager.
16:15<osirisx>lol ok sorpigal - I'm detecting that you have something against it
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16:15<sorpigal>Justin_A: yes, my other laptop and several other devices remain connected and are nearby
16:15<sorpigal>osirisx: I despise it quite furiously. I use wpa_supplicant directly elsewhere; it's so beautiful it makes me weep
16:15<Justin_A>sorpigal: does dmesg show anything now?
16:16<sorpigal>Justin_A: last message reports ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): wlan0: link is not ready
16:16<Justin_A>n-m is nice if you roam a lot and use things like wpa-enterprise
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16:16<osirisx>I agree Justin_A
16:16<sorpigal>Justin_A: I suppose, but my laptop is used at 3 locations 99% of the time and n-m gives me headaches.
16:16<sorpigal>plus I only do personal wpa
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16:18<sorpigal>seems like maybe the hardware isn't fully supported, though the driver accepts it. 2.6.32, by the way
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16:19<sorpigal>after that last iwconfig stanza wpa_supplicant stopped just hanging on start
16:20<sorpigal>and now iwlist scan succeeds
16:20<sorpigal>but it didn't at first...
16:20*sorpigal is so confused
16:20<sorpigal>but nevermind, I am not going to argue with eventual success
16:20<sorpigal>Justin_A: thanks for all your help
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16:47<Nazcafan>I found the cause of the non-working tabkey
16:47<Nazcafan>delicious extension
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17:48<bidabrain>arch 的频道人好少
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18:09<Arck>hi, this is the right place to ask for some help ?
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18:10<retrospectacus>Arck: help with Debian, yes
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18:11<Arck>yes :D
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18:12<Arck>so, i've tried to configure the interface file to up automaticly all my vlan's interfaces
18:12<Arck>ps : i use Debian 5.0.1
18:14<Arck>and normaly, when i call the script networking in init.d to restart my interfaces, that call some script before and after the reload of interfaces
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18:15<Arck>that work fine for regular interface like eth0 and eth1, but when the script reload my vlan's interfaces eth1.100, etc .... he doesn't call the script to remove the vlan
18:16<Arck>Sorry, for my english, i'm not a native speaker
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18:26<Arck>someone have seen this bug already ?
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18:31<dondelelcaro>Arck: it's most likely not a bug; what exactly are you trying to do? what's the contents of /etc/network/interfaces? what do you mean by vlan?
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18:33<Arck>i try to setup my vlan interfaces to be up everytime i ask for restart the network interfaces
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18:33<Arck>what to you mean about vlan ?
18:34<Arck>it's juste some vlan interface
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18:35<Arck>i miss to copy to pastebin the "auto eth1.100" in top of my config file
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18:37<Arck>the funny thing is : if i let the networking script in init.d reload my interface, he try to create them again, (a script lauch after startup of interfaces) and that give me an error
18:37<Arck>the networking script call ifup -a
18:38<Arck>if i try to stop and lauch and start my interface with ifdown and ifup, for my specific interface that works fine
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18:39<dondelelcaro>Arck: and the first thing listed is the eth0 rule that you're not showing, right?
18:40<Arck>i can copy the def of eth0, but there is no vlan on it, i just use it for administration
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18:44<Guest778>can u help me?
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18:45<@Ganneff>try asking a real question
18:45<@Ganneff>and try staying online
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18:46<vallo>hi, are you ready for noob questions?
18:47<vallo>would like to use debian as op sys
18:47<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
18:47<debmonster>that's sound advice
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18:48<debmonster>anyone here running squeeze on a Dell Latitude D820?
18:48<vallo>so would like to know how to get a copy that contains only features that my computer needs and no more
18:48<debmonster>have some really odd issues on that one...
18:48<dpkg>Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
18:48<@Ganneff>vallo: by getting cd1, install - and then only install what you want
18:49<vallo>that leads me to second question: how do i know what do i need to install?
18:49<@Ganneff>vallo: if you dont know that - install the default desktop and then see what you miss. you might get a bit too much, but you can easily cleanup later.
18:50<vallo>so its basically experimenting
18:50<debmonster>or start with a netinstall CD and build from that
18:51<@Ganneff>it really depends on what you need, so yes, if you dont know that, you have to find out
18:51<debmonster>(debian's netinstall CD rocks)
18:51<vallo>but if i get specific and say that i use Dell Inspiron 1525 laptop?
18:52<@Ganneff>(there are two ways: having a system that only has what you need (you asked for that): then you have to know what you want. or having a system thats just nice with all - then you will have stuff you didnt want)
18:52<@Ganneff>there its the laptop task. we dont go into specials for different brands
18:52<debmonster>did I hear something about a Dell laptop?
18:52*Ganneff -> off
18:53<debmonster>mine acts weird under squeeze
18:53<debmonster>with the 2.6.32-5 kernel that is
18:53<debmonster>at some point the fan starts spinning faster and faster, and then it just powers off
18:54<debmonster>didn't do that with the 2.6.32-trunk kernel...
18:55<debmonster>it may have got something to do with the framebuffer being used on the ttys
18:55<vallo>ok thanks for answering Ganneff, but in your opinion lenny 5.0.5 good distro for laptop or it is meant for desktops mainly?
18:56<debmonster>vallo: doesn't really matter
18:56<debmonster>use it on both
18:56<debmonster>*and* on servers too
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18:56<debmonster>'universal operating system' and all that jazz
18:57<vallo>ok, cool
18:57<vallo>have to find some more info then and ask smarter questions next time
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18:58<debmonster>for laptops I'd suggest squeeze though, which has improved support for suspend and dual head and all
18:58<debmonster>just don't use it on a Dell Latitude D820 ;-)
18:58<Arck>dondelelcaro: i've tried to log when i pass in the scrip to remove vlan and i never pass in it with my vlan's interface when i call /etc/init.d/networking restart
18:59<dondelelcaro>Arck: I don't understand why you're calling /etc/init.d/networking restart, though
18:59<dondelelcaro>Arck: that won't bring up interfaces that are already up, and you normally only run that command at boot
18:59<dondelelcaro>restarting networking is a null-op
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19:01<Arck>dondelelcaro : allow me to verify if everything work good when this script is called, and for tonight, i've made a migration of some network
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19:02<Arck>and in case of vlans, this script normaly destroy every vlans interface and re-create them
19:02<Arck>dondelelcaro: if that doesn't work, who can i be sure if the server reboot my vlans will start correctly ?
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19:03<dondelelcaro>Arck: if it works properly when you run ifdown fooiface; ifup fooiface; it should work properly on boot
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19:05<Arck>dondelelcaro: yep, normaly, but like you said, at startup debian will call this script .... and this script seems to not work correctly because he not call some scripts.
19:06<Arck>dondelelcaro: thank's for your help
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19:27<PovAddict>I deleted a program from a directory in $PATH, and now bash says it can't find it instead of using the one in /usr/bin
19:27<PovAddict>how do I make it forget its PATH cache?
19:27<locklace>hash -r
19:27<themill>PovAddict: hash -r
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19:54<bja>Well gentlemen is there a compatible foss program that can interact with skype ? Or am i condemned to install it on a 64 bit machine?
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19:55<PovAddict>bja: the few I've seen are text chat only
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19:58<bja>PovAddict: thx, it seems i am condemned to make it work under amd-64
19:59<bremner>bja: schroot is my hammer for those kind of issues.
20:00<bja>bremner: thx, nice idea
20:00<bja>skype does need a working X environment?
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20:01<bja>setting a vm is a total overkill
20:01<bremner>running x programs in a chroot is no problem, if that is your question
20:03<bja>bremner: well i though of setting up a vm with X and everything to run skype i am not that familiar with setting up chroot for X programs
20:04<bremner>all you need is to set the display variable to :0.0 in my experience
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20:05<bja>bremner: If i screw things up I'll come back crying to have my problems solved :-)
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20:06<bremner>certainly sir, our consulting rates are very reasonable :)
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20:07<bremner>I'm not saying this is the best/easiest solution for skype on amd64, but it is a good general technique
20:08<PovAddict>I didn't need a chroot, just installing a few ia32-* packages
20:08<themill>bja: you may or may not also need dbus running inside the chroot in which case bind-mounting /var/run/dbus would also be necessary.
20:08<PovAddict>but then it segfaulted immediately after successful login :P
20:09<bja>themill: thx, it seems the chroot way is a labourious one. I'll report back asap
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20:09<bremner>maybe skype users can be converted to google talk as a lesser evil
20:09<bremner>at least that should work with empathy
20:10<patrik_>hey guys does anyone know how to update the latest kernel to work with wifi 5100 packet injection
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20:10<bja>bremner: but then you get countries like india bann anything they can't get theri hands on
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20:33<k-man>is there some way to get more recent LaTeX packages in debian?
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20:34<themill>k-man: what in particular are you looking for (and what version of debian)
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20:36<k-man>themill: a recent version of isodoc, in squeeze
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20:40<k-man>is texlive 2010 available for debian?
20:40<themill>k-man: so you've already got the version that was released with TL2009 which is he current version of the texlive "bundle". If there's a newer version of that specific class out there, you can install it into your own ~/texmf
20:41<k-man>themill: hmm... does latex read ~/texmf by default?
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20:42<themill>k-man: it certainly does in lenny and I doubt that has changed in squeeze. See /etc/texmf/texmf.cnf. (Remember that latex is very picky about file locations within the texmf tree)
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20:45<k-man>i get an error when i run latex isodoc.dtx, ! LaTeX Error: File `letter' not found.
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20:47<acu>did anyone try today's daily amd squeeze netinstall - I am trying to install on a quad core AMD and after the CD booted - and click on install (or gui install) the screen goes black and it stays that way - is there a bug - or is my computer screwed ?
20:49<themill>k-man: the guys in #latex on might be in a better position to help you with that (it's the wrong time of the mornng for me to jump down that rabbit warren)
20:49<k-man>themill: yeah thanks :)
20:52<acu>OK. it seem that the daily squeeze amd is screwed - I have inserted an older squeeze and the process goes on
20:54<acu>If I download weekly - first full cd for AMD should be OK ?
20:55<acu>I did not download full CDs since long time
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21:11<dominick>Hi! what is bash(1) as against bash? I was reading the documentation, and don't understand the significance of '(1)'
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21:12<gsimmons>dominick: It's a manual section number ; man man
21:13<dominick>gsimmons, does that mean the reference can be found at /man/man.x/foo for foo(x) ??
21:13<PovAddict>but you shouldn't be looking at those files directly :P
21:13<dominick>man foo?
21:14<PovAddict>or "man 1 foo" to get it specifically from section 1
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21:14<dominick>what's the idea behind the different manual section numbers?
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21:18<blarson>dominick: allows you to have a file the same name as a program. But mostly hysterical raisons from printed unix manuals.
21:19<themill>dominick: the odd page exists in two sections (e.g. a file format and a command) so having a way of separating them is good
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21:19<PovAddict>compare "man 1 passwd" and "man 5 passwd"
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21:22<dominick>err, I have been referenced to manual section number 5 more often. Does it contain configuration manuals?
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21:23<dominick>where can I read more about debian's manual section numbers?
21:23<PovAddict>man man
21:23<PovAddict>it's the same in all unixes, not just in debian
21:24<dominick>thanks PovAddict, blarson, themill, gsimmons!
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21:30<cesurasean>How do I get tightvncserver to load on boot of my system?
21:30<cesurasean>I've about googled my head off without a successful attempt to do this.
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21:44<cesurasean>i have followed this tutorial - , but cannot seem to get the script to load with reboot
21:44<cesurasean>ive placed that script inside /etc/init.d/vncserver
21:44<cesurasean>what else do i need to do to make the script run after reboot?
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21:49<cesurasean>Can someone tell me why this doesn't work? -
21:50<cesurasean>why can't i add this program to runtime?
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21:54<cesurasean>hey there abrotman
21:54<cesurasean>you think you could help me out?
21:54<cesurasean>im trying to get tightvncserver to load on boot of the system, but cannot seem to get the script to run properly
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21:55<abrotman>cesurasean: is that a script you wrote?
21:55<cesurasean>i found it online
21:55<cesurasean>when i run the script manually, it runs fine
21:56<cesurasean>however /etc/init.d/vncserver does not seem to start on boot
21:56<abrotman>what if you start it aftewards?
21:56<cesurasean>when i run /etc/init.d/vncserver start
21:56<cesurasean>it runs fine
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21:57<abrotman>you could use /etc/init.d/rc.local to run that script ?
21:57<cesurasean>how do i make it read that script in init.d?
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21:59<cesurasean>i followed this:
21:59<cesurasean>but, got this:
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22:00<cesurasean>any idea?
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22:01<Nemoder>cesurasean: man update-rc.d
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22:03<cesurasean>update-rc.d -n tightvnc defaults does not seem to work
22:03<cesurasean>outputs what i shown you
22:04<Nemoder>what does your script look like?
22:04<cesurasean>you can find the script here
22:07<cesurasean>can someone help me out?
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22:11<Nemoder>maybe it just needs the '# Required-Stop: $network ' comment for the dependency based thing to work
22:12<Nemoder>cesurasean: I'm not too sure how all that works, look at some of your other scripts in /etc/init.d/
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22:13<cesurasean>i tried creating symbolic links to /etc/init.d/tightvnc
22:13<cesurasean>maybe it will work this time
22:13<cesurasean><crosses fingers>
22:13<cesurasean>eh, ok
22:14<cesurasean>now it boots
22:14<cesurasean>i cannot login though. :/
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22:14<cesurasean>how do i reset the password for tightvncserver?
22:17<cesurasean>eh, i think ive got it now.
22:17<cesurasean>cool. can login to debian from windows. :)
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22:26<PovAddict>when I login to my computer via ssh, before the bash prompt it says '18 packages can be updated' even though there aren't actually any upgradeable packages
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22:28<PovAddict>it has said that for two or three days
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22:28<PovAddict>(always that number)
22:28<PovAddict>I'm in debian testing, and install updates daily
22:29<PovAddict>any ideas on why the login message doesn't refresh?
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23:08<amdgoon>PovAddict: Is that message coming from the "message of the day" facility?
23:12<amdgoon>PovAddict: What does /etc/motd have in it?
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23:14<PovAddict>$ /etc/motd contains '18 packages can be updated.', which is the exact messagr I get on login
23:15<amdgoon>ok some program has put that text into the file, and has not updated it.
23:16<amdgoon>I don't know which one, but /etc/motd is spat out at the type of login you are doing. Maybe that program has since been removed from your system?
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23:17<amdgoon>Personally, I'd just make motd empty if you just want to stop seeing that erroneous message.
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23:19<moldovean>amdgoon, or the system is compromised ..
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23:29<samantha->is there a way to reorder directory entries on ext3 so that files are listed/accessed alphabetically, i.e., when using tar or accessing via samba?
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---Logclosed Wed Aug 18 00:00:37 2010