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#debian IRC Logs for 2010-10-04

---Logopened Mon Oct 04 00:00:25 2010
---Daychanged Mon Oct 04 2010
00:00-!-saleem_ [~saleem@119.153.149.182] has joined #debian
00:01-!-streuner [foobar@mnhm-4d01a232.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:01<saleem_>raylu, yes many has reported this error
00:02-!-orange [~ron@rrcs-67-79-132-51.se.biz.rr.com] has joined #debian
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00:04<raylu>oh, ok
00:06<saleem_>raylu, http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.user/391496
00:06-!-saleem [~saleem@203.99.175.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:07<raylu>saleem_: thanks
00:08-!-aranax [~aranax@200.49.190.28] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:08<saleem_>you welcome, im also waiting for it to fix which will be soonish i hope
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00:14<Nemoder>saleem_: you can temporarily remove dmm from your sources if you have other apps you need to update
00:16<saleem_>thank you Nemoder
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00:38-!-Efreak [~Efreak@69.175.32.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:39-!-orange [~ron@rrcs-67-79-132-51.se.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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00:46-!-charun__ [gory@xdsl-87-79-159-178.netcologne.de] has joined #debian
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00:51-!-orange [~ron@rrcs-67-79-132-51.se.biz.rr.com] has joined #debian
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00:56-!-jm_ [flier@icc.mindwipe.org] has joined #debian
00:57<orange>where are the default gnome wallpapers stored at?
00:57-!-elements [~tim@S01060015e91cfebf.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:59-!-vapaa`afk [~vapaa@p5B0CABA3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:01-!-timmeh [~tim@S01060015e91cfebf.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #debian
01:01-!-brandon [~brandon@cpe-76-90-93-144.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
01:01-!-brandon [~brandon@cpe-76-90-93-144.socal.res.rr.com] has quit []
01:02-!-jeflui [~jeflui@201-13-190-9.dial-up.telesp.net.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:03-!-brandon [~brandon@cpe-76-90-93-144.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
01:03-!-brandon [~brandon@cpe-76-90-93-144.socal.res.rr.com] has quit []
01:03<raylu>other apps still update :D
01:03<raylu>anyway, thanks
01:03-!-raylu [raylu@c-24-131-193-106.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving]
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01:20-!-orange [~ron@rrcs-67-79-132-51.se.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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01:23-!-aranax [~aranax@200.49.190.28] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
01:26-!-mode/#debian [+l 371] by debhelper
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01:47<n3wbie>jembut kabeh
01:47<n3wbie>anjing tai kucing
01:49-!-amphi [~amphi@129.Red-88-8-11.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #debian
01:52-!-MadMuppet006 [~MadMuppet@203-211-94-66.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #debian
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01:59-!-davyg [~davyg@dau94-9-88-178-191-172.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian
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02:13<retrospectacus>dpkg: libx264 size mismatch is run dpkg -i /var/cache/apt/archives/libx264-104_0.svn20100918-0.1_i386.deb and try again
02:13<dpkg>retrospectacus: okay
02:15-!-frewo64 [~frewo64@p5491B5F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian
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02:24<jm_>dpkg, forget libx264 size mismatch
02:24<dpkg>jm_: i forgot libx264 size mismatch
02:25-!-debalance [~debalance@188.46.153.128] has joined #debian
02:25<jm_>or did you really to want to add this factoid?
02:26-!-ottoshmidt [~ottoshmid@193.104.20.44] has joined #debian
02:28-!-Cholito [~alejandro@212-183-117-194.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
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02:31-!-phurl [~andreas@ip-81-210-237-201.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #debian
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02:40-!-killbillkill [~bill@adsl-90.109.242.28.tellas.gr] has joined #debian
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02:50-!-Vivek [~Vivek@static-mum-59.181.110.41.mtnl.net.in] has joined #debian
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02:56-!-mhash [~mhash@170.157.70.202.dynamic.max.com.pk] has joined #debian
02:57-!-ant [~anton@gbibp9ph1--blueice4n2.emea.ibm.com] has joined #debian
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03:00<retrospectacus>whatever, it won't be relevant for long
03:00-!-chattr [~mike@244.87.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
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03:07-!-davyg [~davyg@dau94-9-88-178-191-172.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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03:09-!-resmo [~moserre@adsl-84-227-53-161.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:09-!-user is now known as Guest1681
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03:11-!-phrosty [~phrosty@cpe-76-173-48-61.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Sacrifice to live; Live to die; Give your last breath; To the seed of war; So say we all.]
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03:16<knoppix_>hi
03:16<knoppix_>eh du
03:16-!-knoppix_ is now known as Guest1682
03:17<Guest1682>hmmmmmm!!!!
03:17<Guest1682>hnnnnn!!
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03:36-!-mode/#debian [+l 378] by debhelper
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03:38-!-gandalf_ is now known as acile
03:38-!-acile is now known as acecile
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03:45<mAniAk->anyone familiar with the ipplan package for stable?
03:45-!-keel [~keel@177.pool85-58-250.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #debian
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03:49<Action>hello allo
03:49-!-ant [~anton@gbibp9ph1--blueice4n2.emea.ibm.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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03:51<Action>Goodbye
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04:30<avtobiff>hej
04:30<avtobiff>sry wc
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06:49<Zathraz>Hi. I physically moved a Lenny box. iirc I did issue an apt-get update/upgrade Thursday. Anyway. Box boots without errors so it seems. Eth0 (inet) works fine. However traffic to and from the lan on either eth1 or eth2: no go
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06:50<Zathraz>any ideas? Is there a bug in the latest Lenny kernel which could cause this?
06:50<pipe>Good example on why you should reboot often, and don't care about uptimes. :P
06:50<Zathraz>that feels a bit Windowz :P
06:50<petemc>Zathraz: are the interfaces up? is the link up?
06:50<Zathraz>yes and yes
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06:51<petemc>Zathraz: how did you verify the link is up?
06:51<Zathraz>I am quite puzzled. Tried different cables, different switchports
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06:51<Zathraz>leds on nic and switch are on correct color. No errors in logs
06:52<Zathraz>ah. I could run mii-diag
06:52<petemc>does ethtool eth1 report link detected?
06:52<Zathraz>one. mo. Have to check in other room
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06:54<Zathraz>link detect, full duplex etc : ok
06:55<amitz>this may sound silly but how to upgrade from i386 to ia64? What's the trigger for dpkg?
06:55<jm_>amitz: surely you meant to amd64? I don't recommend it
06:55<Zathraz>oh. Btw: inet is eth1 and lan is eth0. But that is not of much concern. Same problem and status
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06:56<themill>amitz: you can't change the architecture of an existing installation
06:57<amitz>jm_: oh, amd64 is more stable? yes, that's probably what I want.
06:57<jm_>amitz: no, amd64 is for intel/amd CPU-s
06:57<amitz>themill: ....I see. I guess I must rely on bigmem kernel of i386 then :-/
06:57<pipe>Zathraz: Well, it might sound like windowz to reboot often, but the point is to do it during controlled sessions with minor changes in between, so that you can be more or less sure that it will boot up correctly if there's an accident or a need to reboot :)
06:57<amitz>for memory more than 2.xGB
06:57<jm_>amitz: it's doable, but requires a lot of work - I went through it this year so that's why I don't recommend it
06:58<amitz>jm_: casually speaking, bigmem of i386 has serious performance hit over amd64?
06:59<jm_>amitz: hmm not sure, I think Linus once commented on that on LKML - it wasn't that huge
07:00<amitz>sorry, I may have misunderstood something. i386 architecture includes amd64 and bigmem. Never mind...
07:01<pipe>You sound a bit confused now.
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07:02<jm_>ahh right, I see what you meant -- to be honest, I have no idea what the performance difference is, probably best to benchmark it
07:02<gob_bluth>anybody know of an easy way to get a listing of packages _without_ the version numbers? dpkg -l is perfect but need to drop the ver numbers
07:02<gob_bluth>need to do a diff with another machine's packages
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07:02<jm_>gob_bluth: no not anyone does, but try dpkg --get-selections
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07:04<pipe>gob_bluth: dpkg -l | awk '{print $2}'
07:04<amitz>I was trying to make me notebook support more than 4GB memory. I thought the only way to do that is to install architecture i386 using bigmem kernel, architecture amd64, and architecture ia64. Turns out that amd64 is a choice of kernel inside i386, amd64 is not an architecture. :-p. Now that I understand, I think the trivial solution to use memory more than 4GB is to use AMD64 kernel of i386.
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07:05<jm_>there are both, kernel and arch named amd64 ;)
07:05<jm_>$ dpkg --print-architecture
07:05<jm_>amd64
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07:06<pipe>I run amd64 on my Core2 cpus just to spite intel.
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07:06<jm_>heh
07:06<jm_>this too has an intel cpu
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07:07<amitz>...gah -_-
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07:10<Zathraz>I issued a miidiag -R : no result. Also I wiped udev rules for nics and rebooted: same result
07:12<gob_bluth>thanks pipe, that worked great
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08:01<amitz>in debian, most of amd64 packages work? or all?
08:01<Quantum>Always been fine for me.
08:02<Quantum>Anyone feel like helping with a Suspend failure?
08:02<pipe>Quantum: Preferably not
08:03<amitz>suspend == dark art
08:03<jm_>amitz: as far as debian stuff goes it's working nicely for me
08:03<Quantum>{hehe} http://pastebin.com/8tA7kcpw
08:04<pipe>amitz: I've used amd64 on various machines, everything works great.
08:04<amitz>hmm I see..
08:04<pipe>amitz: But I don't use them for retarded purposes like watching flash animations or calling with skype, etc
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08:26<cheryl>hg
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08:36<Zathraz>I think I might know what is wrong. Only I have no clue why this happens and how I can fix it. Logs indicate that udev renames eth-s for some reason. Could this be the reason that I have no LAN connection? Why does this happen (i did not change anything nor asked udev to rename) and how can I fix this please?
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08:37<petemc>!70
08:37<dpkg>udev has the ability to statically rename Ethernet cards based on MAC address since version 0.090. The addresses are configured in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules (Lenny, Squeeze) or /etc/udev/rules.d/z25_persistent-net.rules (Etch). If you want the mappings to change, edit the respective file. To apply changes: "udevadm trigger" ("udevtrigger" on Etch) or reload the relevant driver module. See also <forcedeth mac>, <udev>.
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08:42<fbs>hi
08:42<Penguinboy>Hello
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08:44<Penguinboy>Nothing going on, eh?
08:45<fbs>not really
08:45<Penguinboy>Typical IRC. Hundreds of people and no one talking.
08:45<pipe>we're trying to idle
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08:46<Penguinboy>Anyone tried Squeeze?
08:46<pipe>Ever since lenny went stable, yes
08:46<Penguinboy>How is it?
08:47<pipe>It's the same good old debian, but newer and better :)
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08:47<Penguinboy>Does it have better Flash support? Flash videos tend to freeze up on me.
08:47<jm_>using non-free flash plugin?
08:48<fbs>donwload the new flashplayer from adobe
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08:48<Penguinboy>I mean Flash compatibility.
08:48<fbs>im using the squeeze /testing repo
08:48<Penguinboy>I downloaded the Linux Flash plugin, but I'm not sure if it was the right one.
08:48<fbs>the new plugin from adobe is good
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08:49<fbs>time for college
08:49<Penguinboy>It's mostly YouTube videos. And porn.
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08:52<Zathraz>petemc, I played around with 70-persistent-net.rules as that can be a real show stopper when physically changing NICs or switching them in PCI slots, but that was not the case with this machine.
08:52<Zathraz>I still have the same issue: no LAN :-(
08:52<Zathraz>and no idea what to look for
08:53<Zathraz>when using ether-status I see even traffic going over the nic!
08:53<Zathraz>kind of driving me nuts
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09:17<karnov>hi guys, i have a newb question .... is there a way to find with which configura parameters a binary was made ? i mean, if i compile a binary with '--configure nodesktop etc...' can i recover this informations from the binary itslef later ?
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09:18<blarson>karnov: only if the program has code to let you do so.
09:18<karnov>blarson, thanks .
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09:20<amitz>let it be community knowledge: aptitude safe-upgrade consumes lots of memory, 512MB will OOM.
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09:27<demo>hello!
09:28<demo>im running ANTIx.. and have a few questions..
09:28<demo>about fluxbox
09:28<demo>???
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09:33<virtual_>good day
09:34-!-charun [~charun@xdsl-87-79-159-178.netcologne.de] has joined #debian
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09:35<bremner>!tell demo -about antix
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09:36<pipe>!tell pipe -about antix
09:37<bremner>!tell pipe -about selftell
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09:38<pipe>ganneff > bremner
09:38<bremner>pipe: sorry, have I offended you in some way?
09:39<pipe>Well you accused me of spamming one line by also spamming one line, while Ganneff managed to do so without spamming himself
09:39<bremner>ah, ok. fair enough.
09:39<kmap>pipe: The logic is, if I also want to do selftell, I might have, but having seen bremner tell you, I would have avoided that approach. :-)
09:40*kmap resumes his interesting personal discussion with the dpkg bot
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10:00<virtual_>hi
10:01<virtual_>how can i force to install a package with dpkg ?
10:01-!-cjuner [~cjuner@x404.vpn.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:01<Ganneff>man dpkg - dpkg -i --force-whateverfitshere
10:02<themill>virtual_: chances are you don't really want to do that though. What are you really trying to achieve?
10:03<virtual_>only a test
10:03<virtual_>it's not for real use
10:03<virtual_>i want to learn to compile debian packages
10:03<virtual_>thanks
10:04-!-charun [~charun@xdsl-87-79-159-178.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Sag noch einmal "eyy aldda" und ich jag dich mit meinem Duden durch dein Ghetto!!!]
10:04<virtual_>ls
10:05-!-ubuntu [~ubuntu@110.72.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #debian
10:06-!-ubuntu is now known as Guest1704
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10:06<Guest1704>hola
10:06-!-thkoch [~thkoch@46-127-150-60.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #debian
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10:15-!-ucenik25 [~ucenik25@62.162.216.198] has joined #debian
10:15<ucenik25>vlade tuka si
10:15-!-ucenik01 [~ucenik01@62.162.216.198] has joined #debian
10:15<ucenik01>hello
10:15<ucenik25>vlade
10:15-!-ucenik07 [~ucenik07@62.162.216.198] has joined #debian
10:15<virtual_>hello
10:15<ucenik07>kazi
10:15<ucenik25>more filip
10:16-!-mode/#debian [+l 425] by debhelper
10:16<ucenik25>29292992992929299292
10:16<ucenik07>arensi
10:16<ucenik01>eeeeeeeeeeeeej\
10:16<ucenik25>sum ti si
10:16<ucenik01>arni ste?
10:16<ucenik25>dobro vi e
10:16<ucenik07>arni sme
10:16<ucenik25>milo mi e
10:16<ucenik25>tebe ti e
10:16<ucenik01>koj ce bidi blagajnik?
10:16<ucenik25>ne znam
10:16<ucenik25>ti so misalis
10:16<ucenik07>koj e be tuka dzoni ?
10:17<ucenik25>jas be
10:17<ucenik25>imas problem
10:17<ucenik25>aaaaaaaaaaaaaa
10:17<ucenik07>ela vamu
10:17<ucenik25>koj be
10:17<ucenik25>jas ili ti
10:17<ucenik07>jas
10:17<ucenik25>koj ti
10:17<ucenik01>sho e be
10:18<ucenik25>jas ili ti ne se mesaj ti be
10:18<ucenik01>dvajcata gla so gla che ve chukam
10:18<ucenik07>aman be
10:18<ucenik25>aj da te vidam odma
10:18<bremner>ucenik01: ucenik25 ucenik07: please use english, and talk about Debian here
10:18<ucenik25>a
10:18<ucenik07>ebago de
10:18<ucenik25>ebati serverov
10:18<ucenik25>aj sega da ve vidam
10:18-!-mode/#debian [+o themill] by ChanServ
10:19-!-mode/#debian [+b *!*@62.162.216.198] by themill
10:19-!-mode/#debian [-o themill] by themill
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10:24<karnov>more filip
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10:28<nguena>bjr
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10:32<nguena>hu!
10:32<nguena>exit*
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10:55<Lethalman>shapado.debian.net
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11:11<bremner>oh, I thought ask.debian.net was going to point to shapado.debian.net, but it seems it is occupied with another shapado instance?
11:11<labs>ciao a tutti
11:12<pipe>un grosso saluto
11:12<labs>c'è qualche italiano????
11:12<pipe>!it
11:12<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
11:12<labs>!it
11:12<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
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11:20<omar>hi
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11:22<omar>لقلق
11:24-!-avalon is now known as Avalon
11:24<Avalon>yioho
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11:42<Zathraz>petemc, it seems that a switch did not like the last power cut and is causing my troubles
11:42<Zathraz>thanks for the support
11:42-!-labs [~hihihi@ppp-200-120.98-62.inwind.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
11:44<petemc>Zathraz: but the link still came up?
11:44<Zathraz>yes
11:45-!-jhutchins_lt [~jonathan@64-151-37-66.dyn.everestkc.net] has joined #debian
11:45<Zathraz>one PC had also troubles on the network. Now I moved these 2 to a new switch and away my troubles went
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12:07*derick_ preparing a NAS server (data backup and data server for now) for the first time
12:07-!-rd2b [~rd2b@183.206.141.79.static.adsl.abo.nordnet.fr] has left #debian []
12:07<derick_>what is different compared to a desktop install?
12:07<derick_>which file system for instance?
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12:33<Deepa>I have a load average of above 7.00
12:33<mAniAk->and?
12:33<Deepa>whenever I type ls into a console it just stops there
12:34<kooll>it's ok. relax a bit ;)
12:34<mAniAk->run top
12:34<mAniAk->and see whats going on
12:34<Deepa>returns nothing and I can't ^Z or ^C or ^D
12:34<Deepa>top says everything is nomral
12:34-!-grochap [~grochap@200.182.198.10] has joined #debian
12:34<Deepa>nothing using above 0.1%
12:34<kooll>Deepa: most likely causes: storage (disk, nfs, whatever) failing
12:34<kooll>or at least 'very slow'
12:34<mAniAk->sounds like your disk
12:34-!-Vivek [~Vivek@static-mum-59.181.110.41.mtnl.net.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:34<Deepa>it's a ssd
12:35<kooll>doesn't change the diagnostic :)
12:35<mAniAk->if you check top its prdoably high on wa
12:35<mAniAk->%
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12:36<Deepa>wa is 0.0
12:36<Deepa>99.0% id though
12:36<mAniAk->hehm
12:36<mAniAk->at work we have a server like that
12:36<mAniAk->goes up to 12 load sometimes
12:36<mAniAk->but nothing peculiar in top
12:37<kooll>Deepa: look at the end of 'dmesg' output
12:37-!-vizor_ [~vizor@86.57.155.134] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:37<Deepa>increasing mindeltans to 15000 nsec
12:38<Deepa>df blocked for more than 120 seconds
12:38<Deepa>glade too
12:38-!-deepa- [~deepy@089-101-109244.ntlworld.ie] has joined #debian
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12:39<deepa->what am I looking for?
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12:41<deepa->I have a few call traces beginning with
12:41<deepa->[ 1320.705256] Call Trace:
12:41<deepa->[ 1320.705277] [<c10245a2>] ? __wake_up+0x29/0x39
12:42<deepa->kooll: what am I really looking for?
12:43<kooll>deepa-: well, that kind of call trace indicates a kernel bug (or at least, unexpected conditions). what's before that ?
12:43-!-awoodland [~woodalan@intmlp0486.intm.aber.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:43<deepa->there's those and applications hanging
12:43-!-DoktorNo [~opera@host-81-190-177-224.gorzow.mm.pl] has joined #debian
12:43<DoktorNo>hi thee
12:44<DoktorNo>there*
12:44-!-Vivek [~Vivek@static-mum-59.181.110.41.mtnl.net.in] has joined #debian
12:44<deepa->the traces mentions fuse so I unmounted the sshfs I had
12:45-!-gouki [~gouki@7R1AAAJ2M.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
12:45<deepa->I have 132 sleeping applications and all my terminals have ls that doesn't return
12:45-!-geenna [~geenna@net-93-144-188-5.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #debian
12:45<DoktorNo>I have problems with propertiary drivers for Radeon 4200 HD
12:46<DoktorNo>no GLX
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12:46<DoktorNo>I tried getting help on Ubuntu forums: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1579667
12:46<DoktorNo>I'm using Lenny
12:47<blarson>!radeon
12:47<dpkg>[radeon] A brand of graphic processing units by ATI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon). Xorg driver packaged for Debian as xserver-xorg-video-radeon, optionally install libgl1-mesa-dri for 3D acceleration; Squeeze users, ask me about <radeon firmware>. See also <radeonhd>, <fglrx>. http://wiki.debian.org/AtiHowTo #radeon on irc.freenode.net.
12:48<deepa->now with a load average of [ 1320.705256] Call Trace:
12:48<deepa->[ 1320.705277] [<c10245a2>] ? __wake_up+0x29/0x39
12:48<deepa->oops
12:48<deepa->10.02, 9.38, 8.16
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12:48<DoktorNo>I have libgl1-mesa-dri installed
12:49-!-tom4golf [~tom@nc-71-48-205-3.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #debian
12:49<DoktorNo>I'll try xserver-xorg-video-radeon
12:49<DoktorNo>brb
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12:50-!-DoktorNo [~opera@host-81-190-177-224.gorzow.mm.pl] has joined #debian
12:50<DoktorNo>!radeon
12:50<dpkg>[radeon] A brand of graphic processing units by ATI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon). Xorg driver packaged for Debian as xserver-xorg-video-radeon, optionally install libgl1-mesa-dri for 3D acceleration; Squeeze users, ask me about <radeon firmware>. See also <radeonhd>, <fglrx>. http://wiki.debian.org/AtiHowTo #radeon on irc.freenode.net.
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12:53<deepa->kooll: that's all there is, apart from the applications hanging and the calltraces I can't find anything suspiciouss in dmesg
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12:58<deepa->load average still rising and computer still unusable
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12:59<pipe>Run for it
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13:00<deepa->I prefer a real resolution
13:00<DoktorNo>xserver-xorg-video-radeon installed, still no GLX
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13:02<timmeh>DoktorNo: tried fglrx-driver and fglrx-glx?
13:03<bremner>eek, don't suggest that, unless you are sure radeon does not work
13:03<bremner>DoktorNo: you might need a newer xorg for radeon support for newish cards
13:05<timmeh>Oh. "xserver-xorg-video-radeon" doesn't provide 3D functionality, so I figured it was worth mentioning.
13:05-!-rs [~rs@h-246-154.A218.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #debian
13:05<timmeh>"Note that this is not the same as the ATI-provided, binary-only, 'fglrx' driver, which provides additional 3D functionality for some newer Radeon cards, but is not supported. " @ http://packages.debian.org/lenny/xserver-xorg-video-radeon
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13:05<DoktorNo>timmeh: I have installed them
13:05<timmeh>Whoops, "additional" 3D support. nevermind.
13:05-!-mode/#debian [+o themill] by ChanServ
13:05<timmeh>I guess the later may have some support.
13:05-!-mode/#debian [-b *!*@62.162.216.198] by themill
13:05-!-mode/#debian [-o themill] by themill
13:06<DoktorNo>I had inslalled Catalyst drivers from ATI
13:06<rs>hi all, I installed my debian from usb and now grub-update set my harddrive to hd(1,0) and sdb instead of hd(0,0) and sda as it's supposed to be, what file do I need to change to fix this?
13:06<pipe>grub <3
13:06<DoktorNo>apt-get install linux-headers-2.6-$(uname -r | sed 's,.*-,,') fails; no amd64
13:06-!-mtn [~mtn@99-196-225-24.cust.wildblue.net] has joined #debian
13:07<rs>pipe: then perhaps you can help me, at the moment I need to edit the line at boot to make it work
13:07<DoktorNo>http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1579667 -> there I had attached my xorg.conf and log files
13:07<rs>if I change menu.lst it will just be overwritten by update-grub at next kernel update and the machine won't boot anymore..
13:07<pipe>rs: Can't help you, the documentation for grub is like a brick wall
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13:08<DoktorNo>(WW) fglrx(0): ***********************************************************
13:08<DoktorNo>(WW) fglrx(0): * DRI initialization failed *
13:08<DoktorNo>(WW) fglrx(0): * kernel module (fglrx.ko) may be missing or incompatible *
13:08<DoktorNo>(WW) fglrx(0): * 2D and 3D acceleration disabled *
13:08<DoktorNo>(WW) fglrx(0): ***********************************************************
13:08-!-DoktorNo was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use http://paste.debian.net or /msg dpkg paste]
13:08-!-DoktorNo [~opera@host-81-190-177-224.gorzow.mm.pl] has joined #debian
13:08<DoktorNo>oh
13:08<DoktorNo>sorry :]
13:08<bremner>DoktorNo: I have glx here with xorg radeon, apparently. If you want help with fglrx, you should ask in #ati
13:09<DoktorNo>bremmer: are you using amd64?
13:09-!-angelabad [~angel@4.85-87-84.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:09<bremner>yes
13:09<DoktorNo>ok
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13:10<bremner>DoktorNo: but I am running squeeze
13:10<DoktorNo>:|
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13:11<DoktorNo>on which server is #ati?
13:12<pipe>Sounds like freenode
13:12<DoktorNo>btw: compiling kernel module with a-m fails
13:12<pipe>But don't trust me
13:12<bremner>DoktorNo: /msg dpkg radeon
13:13<DoktorNo>#radeon on irc.freenode.net.
13:13<DoktorNo>ok
13:14<muep>there is also #ati on Freenode
13:14<muep>my impression is that it is for the proprietary catalyst driver, while #radeon is for the free radeon driver
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13:16<DoktorNo>w8, I just tried to build kernel module one more time
13:16<DoktorNo>brb
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13:18<DoktorNo>crap :\ no luck.
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14:01<mihkel>Hi. I have a file where I have a list of packages I want to purge. Can I feed that file to aptitude somehow, so that I don't need to manually copy paste the packages names?
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14:02<pipe>mihkel: If there's not billions, you can use the 'backtick' trick
14:03<kop>mihkel: If there are billions then use xargs.
14:03<Gathond>use xargs regardless
14:03<pipe>true
14:03<Gathond>it avoids the trouble of wondering whether ones list is too long
14:03<mihkel>aptitude purge | xargs cat myfile?
14:03<kop>Gathond: I was wondering why.
14:03<Gathond>mihkel: no
14:04-!-and1bm [~andi@HSI-KBW-078-043-125-153.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #debian
14:04<Gathond>cat myfile | xargs aptitude purge
14:04<kop>xargs aptitude purge < myfile
14:04<kop>:)
14:04<Gathond>well that too
14:04<mihkel>thanks
14:04<Gathond>for some reason prefer the former, the latter is probably slightly more effective
14:05<pipe>I prefer the former because I often want to grep it etc
14:05<kop>Gathond: IMO the former is easier to read, and to extend.
14:05<Gathond>kop: it is
14:05<Gathond>I like it better (I think) because that is how I think about it, construct your input, then pipe it to xargs
14:06*pipe it
14:06<kop>OTOH, the gratituous use of cat is the bane of, well, it must be the bane of someone.
14:06-!-adi [~adi@2001:470:b471:0:4a5b:39ff:fe10:7816] has joined #debian
14:06<ompaul>kop: some poort pipe ;-)
14:07<Gathond>probably, I have consideres changing my ways to dog
14:07<pipe>kop: http://harmful.cat-v.org/cat-v/
14:07<mihkel>Well I get: xargs: aptitude: exited with status 255; aborting
14:07<pipe>I have a dog
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14:07<mihkel>with both lines
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14:08<Gathond>hmmm, can aptitude actually take input like that, with no option for inputting answers to its questions
14:09<pipe>it should ask in normal ways, right
14:09<pipe>+?
14:09<Gathond>dunno, its stdin is no longer the keyboard
14:09<kop>But if you give it a single package name to purge, it just just do that non-interactively, right?
14:09<pipe>Gathond: Why not, it's xargs you give the stdin to
14:10<Gathond>pipe: true
14:10<pipe>xargs doesn't give it single arguments unless you tell it to
14:10<mihkel>kop, with one packages everything goes as expected
14:10<Gathond>pipe: true
14:10-!-themill [~stuart@themill.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:10<kop>How about: cat myfile | xargs aptitude purge -y
14:10<mihkel>packages*
14:10<mihkel>package*
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14:11<mihkel>kop, that works
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14:11<pipe>So it does mess with stdin
14:11<kop>I bet some of the packges depend on others to be purged, so aptitude is chatty.
14:11*kop hates the aptitude curses interface and in general finds aptitude way too chatty.
14:12<pipe>Programs shouldn't talk unless something is wrong
14:12<pipe>But everything is supposed to be bloat these days
14:12<pipe>having paperclips popping up from bash whenever you make a typo
14:13<pipe></rant>
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14:14<Gathond>pipe: well it would have to mess with stdin would it not? xarg does not have a standard in at that point, so what would it use to grap the input
14:14<Gathond>or it does, but it happens to be a pipe at that point
14:14<pipe>Gathond: Good point
14:14<pipe>I guess xargs just have to feed it /dev/null or something
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14:15<pipe>Aha!
14:15<pipe>xargs -a <file> aptitude...
14:15<pipe>"Otherwise, stdin is redirected from /dev/null"
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14:28<bartm>is it possible to slow down a process ? The problem I'm having is that mencoder makes my laptop produce so much heat that it halts.
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14:31<fnmueller>bartm: well, if heat is the problem, supply decent cooling
14:31<f8l>bartm: Try cpulimit.
14:31<bognu>any ideas how mutch energy is used in the internet by downloading? Something like watt per byte..?
14:32<pipe>Your hardware is broken though.
14:32<bartm>f8l: thanks for the hint
14:32<bognu>I want to estimate if ore when a proxy makes sence in means of total energy needs
14:32<bognu>a caching proxie
14:33<pipe>bognu: You need to specify the situation, not just "used in the internet by downloading".. what the.. does that mean
14:33<pipe>bognu: Obviously it depends vastly on the amount of machines behind the proxy etc
14:33<bognu>pipe, no I am looking for any estimation... not a clear value or formula. somthing average
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14:34<pipe>Also, it's of course very much offtopic :P
14:34<bognu>I don't care if there is no answer ;-)
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14:37<bognu>I wonder if a caching proxy (which also needs energy to work) actually can save energy by lowering the work of the chain behind him. This just came to my mind. :-)
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14:38<pipe>You won't really save anything for yourself, but for others
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14:39<Nemoder>I don't think that will save energy, network hardware uses about the same electricity whether it's transmitting or not.
14:39<bartm>f8l: thanks this is what I was looking for (using cpulimit now)
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14:40<retrospectacus>bognu: no - as long as the infrastucture serving the file is still there, you will not save it energy, as Nemoder says. Powering on another box to proxy will quickly vastly outweigh any benefit in terms of watt-hours used.
14:42<retrospectacus>if you proxy with existing hardware like your router, you may save a small amount of kwh
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14:43<blarson>In irssi, how do I get rid of a typoed channel I joined? Is there any way to tell it not to create channels?
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14:43<mAniAk-> /window close
14:44<pipe>.. /part #channel?
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14:45<bognu>haha, I'm just reading this: http://www.katescomment.com/carbon-cost-download-vs-cd/ a woman calculating weird stuff about energy and internet
14:45<pipe>You should probably not trust her very much
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14:45<bognu>retrospectacus, Nemoder - ok, probably I will just gain speed by butting energy into the system
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14:46<Nemoder>bognu: yes, now if you're machines are turned on longer because of download times then you could save power by shutting them off sooner, but if they are left on anyway then there is no gain
14:46<pipe>bognu: "Unlike a computer, though, your brain does not use more energy when you think harder." <- starting out wrong already
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14:47<Nemoder>it might be true in her case though ;)
14:47<tuyung>o
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14:48<pipe>Hehe
14:48<pipe>Also, she leaves the servers to idle 16 hours/day, just for fun
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14:58<bognu>retrospectacus, Nemoder - actually you are wrong (maybe). Cause if more caching proxies are used companies need less servers in general. Idle time of servers has nothing to do with this. It's possible that use of caching proxies is energy wise a good idea.
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15:00<retrospectacus>why would they need less servers? The data still needs a source, regardless of caching
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15:00<bognu>with a caching proxie you can save like 1/4 of download in byte
15:01<bognu>usually you don't just have one server. you have more - load balanced. So there can be a reduction
15:01<retrospectacus>that doesn't really save any energy. idle networks use as much power as active
15:01<retrospectacus>ah perhaps
15:02<bognu>1/4th less download in byte means less servers in the loadbalancing needed. this could outweigh the use of a proxy
15:02<retrospectacus>additional/better caching worldwide would probably slow the rate of new hardware deployment
15:02<Nemoder>it's just moving the server from one place to another really
15:03<bognu>central vs. decentral
15:03<Nemoder>it would be more effecient for bandwidth but I still don't see how it would save power
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15:04<bognu>if there would be an average figure of energy per downloaded byte it would be very easy to calculate if a proxy saves energy ore adds to the energy need
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15:05<retrospectacus>bognu: the answer is 0 cents per Terabyte. You need to use other metrics
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15:09<DoktorNo>well, GLX is working
15:10<DoktorNo>but resolution is wrong :|
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15:12<retrospectacus>DoktorNo, try something like: xrandr -s 1280x1024
15:13<retrospectacus>(using your desired resolution)
15:13<byrd_cleveland>bonjour - if I'm not mistaken, squeeze becomes the next stable release these days. When I look at my sources.list, then I follow squeeze, can go to testing without having to much trouble?
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15:14<retrospectacus>byrd_cleveland: squeeze is still testing
15:15<byrd_cleveland>so I can edit the sources.list and replace squeeze with testing I assume?
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15:15<DoktorNo>retro: cvr had calculated this as follows: 1920x1080 59.96 Hz (CVT 2.07M9) hsync: 67.16 kHz; pclk: 173.00 MHz
15:15<DoktorNo>Modeline "1920x1080_60.00" 173.00 1920 2048 2248 2576 1080 1083 1088 1120 -hsync +vsync
15:16<Nemoder>byrd_cleveland: when a new testing branch is started then yes that will work
15:16<DoktorNo>I'm using HDMI, how to tell xrands to set mode for that?
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15:16<byrd_cleveland>thank you
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15:17<retrospectacus>DoktorNo: I'm not following you. The command is xrandr -s <width>x<height> - just run it with your monitor's resolution
15:17<retrospectacus>hdmi is irrelevant
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15:19<hasan>I successfully added a new udev rule for my usb storage device, I can run scripts when it is "added" to the computer (plugged in), Action=="add". but, however, I can't unmount it, before I didnt plug out the device, because ACTION=remove is triggered AFTER the device is plugged out, right?
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15:20<kop>hasan: Right.
15:20<hasan>so there is no way to unmount via udev?
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15:21<retrospectacus>sounds like a physical impossibility, yep
15:21<hasan>k thx. just wanted to be sure in my guess.
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15:22<kop>hasan: Not really. You can see discussion on this on the linux-hotpug@vger.kernel.org list. The only solution is to use a decent filesystem that won't break on unplug, that is, not vfat.
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15:25<hasan>thank you.
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15:40<felixs_>how can I get the ipv4 address of an interface (without using sed, awk ...), any ideas?
15:42<cthuluh>first : do you really think you need this information? second : no
15:43<cthuluh>otherwise, ip -o link show "$if" # has an easily parsable output
15:44<felixs_>cthuluh: usually an ip-up script handles
15:44<felixs_>the nsupdate...
15:44<felixs_>but sometimes it doesnt work, and i want to trigger manually....
15:45<felixs_>but ill take a look at the -o link switch. thanks
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15:46<cthuluh>else, if you have a web server on your name server, just write a two lines long CGI script
15:46<cthuluh>and curl / wget it
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15:48<felixs_>cthuluh: come on, thats a serius hack
15:48<felixs_>ill stay with ip address show dev ppp0 |tail -n1 | awk '{print $2}'
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15:49<retrospectacus>I have this alias publicip='wget -q -O - whatismyip.org;echo'
15:49<retrospectacus>but it gives your router's ip
15:50<retrospectacus>if applicable
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15:51<pipe>felixs_: So why did you waste our time by saying "no sed or awk" when you use it yourself?
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15:53<felixs_>pipe: looking for a cleaner solution i was stuck reading 'man ip'
15:53<felixs_>pipe: thats why i asked here
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15:53<pipe>Using pipes and filters is the cleanest solution
15:53<felixs_>but awk is less pain then wget :)
15:53<pipe>Using billions of flags for various unrelated programs isn't
15:53<pipe>remember, cat -v is considered harmful
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15:54<cthuluh>tail -n 1 | awk ... is the same as awk 'END { ... }'
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15:54<cthuluh>and using a CGI script on your own nameserver is _not_ a hack
15:55<felixs_>cthuluh: thanks for the awk hint!
15:55<kop>cthuluh: No. END is done _after_ the awk script finishes.
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15:56<felixs_>not the cgi script itself. using it to fetch something which is already there is (imho, at least)
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15:56<cthuluh>kop: yes, but $0, $1, etc, remain untouched
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16:49<DoktorNo>i'm stuck with low resolution on my 1080p. LCD :(
16:49<DoktorNo>Radeon driver works, with GLX
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16:53<jhutchins_lt>stuck <> works?
16:54<DoktorNo>I can achive 1400x1050
16:54<DoktorNo>and it sucks
16:54<DoktorNo>I'm trying to add a new mode to xrands
16:54<DoktorNo>xrandr
16:54<DoktorNo>but i have no idea about output
16:55<DoktorNo>I'm using Radeon 4250 HD
16:55<DoktorNo>monitor is attached to HDMI port
16:56-!-hijack [~hijack@ADijon-551-1-2-230.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian
16:56<jhutchins_lt>DoktorNo: xrandr is going to show you whatever modes are available to X. If they don't show up in xrandr it means the driver you're using doesn't support them in combination with your display.
16:57<DoktorNo>crap
16:57-!-hijack [~hijack@ADijon-551-1-2-230.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit []
16:57<DoktorNo>Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1400 x 1050, maximum 1400 x 1050
16:57<DoktorNo>default connected 1400x1050+0+0 0mm x 0mm
16:57<DoktorNo> 1400x1050 60.0*
16:57<DoktorNo> 1280x1024 60.0
16:57<DoktorNo> 1152x864 0.0
16:57-!-DoktorNo was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use http://paste.debian.net or /msg dpkg paste]
16:58-!-DoktorNo [~opera@host-81-190-177-224.gorzow.mm.pl] has joined #debian
16:58<pipe>Second time today?
16:59<DoktorNo>http://paste.debian.net/93276/
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16:59<DoktorNo>I created a new mode for 1920x1080
17:00<DoktorNo>but I can't add it
17:00<jhutchins_lt>Just pasting random crap without saying what it's from isn't really useful.
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17:00<jhutchins_lt>DoktorNo: Read the log file, it should tell you why it's rejected.
17:00<anotherdebianusr>Hi. Could someone explain to me what is the benefit of turning the netbook of instead suspending it to hdd or ram?
17:00<DoktorNo>this is my outpt from xrandr
17:00-!-blackxored [~adrian@109.169.23.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:01<DoktorNo>xrandr requires output name
17:01<DoktorNo>no, It did't rejected
17:02<retrospectacus>DoktorNo: the output name is "default"
17:02<jhutchins_lt>DoktorNo: //var/log/Xorg.0.log
17:02<pipe>anotherdebianusr: Who told you it was a benifit?
17:02<jhutchins_lt>DoktorNo: xrandr is just a switching tool, it doesn't do configuration.
17:03*cthuluh would be happy to have such a screen resolution
17:03<jhutchins_lt>anotherdebianusr: suspend uses some power, off does not. Suspend is sometimes a problem for things like sound.
17:03<anotherdebianusr>pipe: No one. Tho You can get that impression watching people do it.
17:04<anotherdebianusr>jhutchins_lt: How much is that some?
17:04<DoktorNo>well, in log I can see, that VESA is seeing 1080p resolution
17:04<DoktorNo>(II) VESA(0): Modeline "1920x1080"x0.0 148.50 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1089 1125 +hsync +vsync (67.5 kHz)
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17:05<DoktorNo>I'll delete forcing of this res in xorg.conf
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17:07<pipe>anotherdebianusr: The power in suspend varies, and sometimes the chipsets are buggy and it draws a lot more than it should
17:07-!-DoktorNo [~opera@host-81-190-177-224.gorzow.mm.pl] has quit [Quit: DoktorNo]
17:07<pipe>anotherdebianusr: "suspend to disk" shouldn't be different from power off, but you need to allocate disk space, it takes some time to suspend, and the startup could be problematic for certain drivers
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17:09<anotherdebianusr>pipe: What happens to the suspended data after the power required keep it up runs out? Total oblivion?
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17:11<jhutchins_lt>anotherdebianusr: You can judge for yourself if you suspend to ram and see how long the battery lasts.
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17:11<pipe>anotherdebianusr: Yes, complete destruction
17:11<anotherdebianusr>jhutchins_lt: What is the differenc (beside obvious) between suspending to ram and to hdd?
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17:11<jhutchins_lt>anotherdebianusr: Suspend to RAM _should_ flush the disk buffers so that it's not quite the same as yanking the power, but yes, once the power is gone whatever is in RAM is gone.
17:12<pipe>Any unsaved documents in applications would be lost, etc.
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17:13<anotherdebianusr>How can I determinate what type of suspend (ram or hadd) does my debian uses once I close the notebook?
17:13-!-devil [~devil@dslb-088-072-219-199.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #debian
17:13<anotherdebianusr>*hdd
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17:14<pipe>Unplug the battery
17:14<pipe>If it wakes up fine, then it was to the HD :P
17:14<DoktorNo>I sucessfully Added 1920x1080 to randr
17:14<DoktorNo>but screen res did't changes
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17:15<anotherdebianusr>pipe: So suspend to hdd requires some level of power yet it can prevail data after complete power loss?
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17:16<DoktorNo>switching using xrandr itself FAILS: xrandr: Configure crtc 0 failed
17:16<retrospectacus>anotherdebianusr: suspend to hdd does not require any power - it simply stores the running state on HDD and restores it on resume
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17:18<anotherdebianusr>retrospectacus: So what is the benefit of storing to ram? It has to be faster but is the speed of process realy the reason to risk data loss related to power failure?
17:18<retrospectacus>yes
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17:18<anotherdebianusr>Thank You all gentleman.
17:19<retrospectacus>in a lot of cases one will work and one just won't
17:19<retrospectacus>so you go with what works
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17:20<DoktorNo>sorry, but it seems that I must use nonfree drivers to achive my monitors's native resolution
17:20<DoktorNo>no GLX but t least I would have full resolution
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17:23<jhutchins_lt>DoktorNo: I think you should explore some documentation specific to your GPU.
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17:23<jhutchins_lt>DoktorNo: You have not mentioned what it is.
17:23<jhutchins_lt>!radeon
17:23<dpkg>[radeon] A brand of graphic processing units by ATI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon). Xorg driver packaged for Debian as xserver-xorg-video-radeon, optionally install libgl1-mesa-dri for 3D acceleration; Squeeze users, ask me about <radeon firmware>. See also <radeonhd>, <fglrx>. http://wiki.debian.org/AtiHowTo #radeon on irc.freenode.net.
17:24<DoktorNo>Radeon 4250 HD
17:24<jhutchins_lt>There ya go, a whole channel just for you!
17:24<jhutchins_lt>Nice howto page as well.
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17:26<DoktorNo>Just swiched to non-free drivers, at least I can work now
17:27<DoktorNo>any ideas how to use 1920x1080 on free drivers?
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17:28<digitanha>I made a larger partition(sdb9) with a copy of my root folder(sdb1) on it. How can I configure grub to use the new partition?
17:28<pipe>If you ask such a question, I hope you used a guide to make that copy and not simply dragged a folder. :)
17:29<pipe>Doing to the change to grub depends on the version of grub
17:29-!-afurlan [~afurlan@200.14.32.75] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:29<digitanha>I used a guide
17:31<jhutchins_lt>digitanha: update /boot/grub/menu.lst to point to the new partition.
17:31<DoktorNo>this is my xorg.conf, that I used to try a open drivers: http://paste.debian.net/93278/
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17:32<jhutchins_lt>DoktorNo: Best to explore the links listed by dpkg.
17:32<digitanha>ok ty
17:32<DoktorNo>I tried them
17:32<jhutchins_lt>DoktorNo: You won't always get full performance or full resolution with the free drivers.
17:32<DoktorNo>:\
17:32<jhutchins_lt>DoktorNo: If you could, nobody would bother with the proprietary ones.
17:32<DoktorNo>I'm using now ATI's drivers
17:33<DoktorNo>no GLX, no 2d accel
17:33<DoktorNo>but at least I have 1080p
17:33<Aleric>How can I unpack a .deb without installing it?
17:34<DoktorNo>the problem is with kernel module - it won't load
17:34<blarson>Aleric: It's an option to dpkg
17:34<pipe>Aleric: Honestly, your life would be improved by learning how to do simple searches and reading 'man' pages..
17:36<Aleric>blarson: Thanks, I remembered it was a trick with 'ar' and 'tar' and an offset and all what not... I guess it was added to dpkg later :p
17:37<blarson>I'm pretty sure it was in potato's dpkg. But the nm question made me do it with ar etc.
17:38<digitanha>jhutchins_lt: ty again
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17:38<jhutchins_lt>DoktorNo: There are 56 different driver packags for literally hundreds of chipsets.
17:39-!-davi [~davi@serene.ttllp.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:39<jhutchins_lt>!doesn't work
17:39<dpkg>Look buddy, "doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message?". Ask me about <smart questions> and <errors>.
17:39<DoktorNo>jhutchins_lt: So which one I should use?
17:41<jhutchins_lt>DoktorNo: Whichever one works best for you, I'm just pointing out that you're either going to have to provide more information here if you want help from us, or read up on your specific chipset in the various resources that are availble, including the #radeon irc channel.
17:43<DoktorNo>I have Radeon 4250 HD mounted on motherboard
17:44<jhutchins_lt>You mentioned that.
17:44<jhutchins_lt>I have an Intel 855GM.
17:44<DoktorNo>I googled, and for Debian there are two solutions: ATI's closed drivers and open 'radeon'
17:44<DoktorNo>I tried both
17:44<DoktorNo>closed at least gives me full resolution, but no GLX
17:45<DoktorNo>open == GLX, but low resolution
17:45<qq->1400 isn't low resolution
17:45<DoktorNo>:S
17:45<pipe>yes it is
17:46<DoktorNo>I have 22 inch 16:9 monitor
17:46<jhutchins_lt>DoktorNo: I think I would see if anything on the ati forums says how to enable glx.
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17:47<pipe>My amiga from like, 1712 can do in excess of 1400 pixels horizontally, that something like that is still the norm almost 20 years later is just lame.
17:47<pipe>(ok it's from 1992)
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17:50<jhutchins_lt>It was also a design optimized for graphics. Modern PC's cover a broader range of capabilities.
17:50<pipe>So the graphics card you buy that costs almost as much as the whole Amiga isn't optimized for graphics?
17:51-!-toto42 [~toto@pD9E27E24.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:51<pipe>But it's really not the computers, it's the display technologies that failed
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17:52<r0ger>what type of script does dpkg run that lets you store info for like !doesn't work ?
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17:53<r0ger>i am in need of something similar for a channel for some software
17:54-!-Exavion [~lovena@weezing-75.dynamic.rpi.edu] has quit [Quit: Dasvidaniya]
17:54<themill>dpkg, what are you
17:54<dpkg>I am an infobot. For more info see <infobot>.
17:55-!-Jussi [~jussi@0132700296.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:55*pipe is a bot, just irssi with some custom scripts
17:55<r0ger>ty
17:55<themill>r0ger: but if you were going to start from scratch with a bot, you might like to look at supybot instead
17:55<r0ger>okay
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18:24<cesurasean>if i install something on debian that's newer than what i have installed currently, can i always use the deb package of the older version to overwrite the newer one that apt-get has installed?
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18:24<themill>!downgrade
18:24<dpkg>[downgrade] Downgrading is not possible with apt-get/aptitude and no future support is anticipated. Some programs change the binary format of their files in a way that cannot be rolled back later, and package maintainer scripts provide ways to upgrade to new config file formats but not ways to downgrade. You can always try to downgrade a package using dpkg -i <olderversion.deb>. See also <partial downgrade>, <unstable->testing>, <sdo>.
18:24<mAniAk->dunno if you can overwrite
18:24<mAniAk->but you can have multiple versions
18:25<mAniAk->afaik
18:25<themill>err... multiple versions is the one thing you can't have. You can try to downgrade but it won't necessarily work
18:26-!-mode/#debian [+l 409] by debhelper
18:26<mAniAk->hmm
18:26<cesurasean>thx guys
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18:30<jhutchins_lt>cesurasean: If you do a system backup before you update you can just restore it.
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18:31<mAniAk->themill: cant you install multiple from source
18:31<jhutchins_lt>You can have multiple versions of some packages, but certainly not all.
18:31<pipe>What's the problem with purging the 'new' one and installing the old?
18:32<themill>you can't have multiple versions of any packages. Some packages happen to have similar names with the old and new versions in different packages.
18:32<jhutchins_lt>PHP and Mozilla do ok, python appears to be impractical.
18:32<themill>pipe: try that with mysql 5.1 and 5.0. Or with subversion. Or anything else that changes other things on disk after installation
18:33<mAniAk->http://achinghead.com/archive/83/installing-multiple-versions-python/
18:33<pipe>themill: Hardly an issue with the debian package manager
18:34<cesurasean>jhutchins_lt, i was thinking the same thing. just backup, then do it. I want to get away from the lenny software installed onto the unit, and be able to use apt-get update again
18:34<themill>pipe: umm... I'm not sure what you're trying to say. It doesn't always work, and that's all there is to it. That's what dpkg said, and that's what I said.
18:34<themill>mAniAk-: that has nothing to do with installing multiple versions of packages.
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18:35<cesurasean>thanks for the help, guys. cya.
18:35<mAniAk->themill: if you missed i asked if you can do it from source
18:36<mAniAk->but if you wanna be nitpicky, yes, its no a package
18:36<jhutchins_lt>mAniAk-: Thanks for that, 2.6 is starting to be an issue.
18:36<themill>we were talking about packages, yes...
18:37<themill>mAniAk-: ahh sure. Yes you can, but then you're taking a lot of the burden onto yourself. (And the particular example there of multiple python packages isn't going to work out as you want from that recipe.
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18:38<mAniAk->how so
18:40<themill>Well... it will work out if you really enjoy installing all the python modules by hand too.
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18:41<jhutchins_lt>Yeah, dealing with the modules knocked one guy out here.
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19:14<cesurasean>Can someone tell me how to fix this? - http://pastebin.com/DtvrjEVR
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19:18<themill>cesurasean: asking webmin to fix their shitty packages would be one approach (/msg dpkg webmin). You might be able to fix their init script yourself: /msg dpkg missing lsb tags
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19:19<amakusa>hello all, I run sid amd64 and I wanna build a package from sourcem but it's only available for i386, is there any way to force the arquitechture?
19:19<jhutchins_lt>cesurasean: Someone has attempted to install webmin. Find out how they did it and remove it, the errors will go away.
19:19<jhutchins_lt>cesurasean: It will take far less time to learn proper system administration than to clean up when webmin trashes the system.
19:19*pipe agrees with jhutchins_lt
19:20<pipe>I've never used webmin, and would never dare to
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19:23<cesurasean>i didn't have this error on other servers, why this server has it?
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19:59<cesurasean>Can someone tell me how to fix this? http://pastebin.com/ZhbvhZes
20:00<cesurasean>Seems udev won't install correctly?
20:03<retrospectacus>I think we are gonna need your entire command and output, also apt-get update first of course
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20:07<dvs>cesurasean: using a 2.6.32 kernel?
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20:09<cesurasean>not sure which kernel im running.
20:09<dvs>uname -r
20:10<cesurasean>2.6.26
20:10<dvs>that's why
20:10<cesurasean>how do i upgrade to the newer kernel?
20:10<dvs>!bpo
20:10<dpkg>backports.debian.org (formerly backports.org) is an official repository of <backports> for the current stable distribution, prepared by Debian developers. Read http://backports.debian.org/Instructions/ to enable and use. See also <bdo key> <bdo mirrors> <bdo contents> <bdo list> <bdo kernel> <bdo users> <bdo pinning>. http://www.debian.org/News/2010/20100905
20:10<cesurasean>do i need to manually enter apt-get install?
20:10<cesurasean>how is backports going to help me?
20:10<dvs>eventually
20:11<dvs>backports has the newer
20:11<dvs>packages for the stable release
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20:11<cesurasean>well, i just want the newest in squeeze repo, no backports for me.
20:12<cesurasean>what is the package name, so i can apt-get install it?
20:12<blarson>!bpi kernel
20:12<blarson>!bpo kernel
20:12<dpkg>Newer kernels for Debian stable releases are distributed via backports.debian.org. Ask me about <bdo> to add backports.debian.org to your sources.list correctly. You can then "aptitude update && aptitude -t lenny-backports install linux-image-`uname -r | sed 's,.*-,,'`" (i.e. linux-image-686, linux-image-amd64). "/msg judd kernels" to see a list of kernels in Debian.
20:12<dvs>it's linux-image-2.6.32-5 I think
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20:13<blarson>,kernels
20:14<judd>Available kernel versions are: experimental: 2.6.36-rc5-686 (2.6.36~rc5-1~experimental.1); sid: 2.6.32-5-686 (2.6.32-24); squeeze: 2.6.32-5-686 (2.6.32-23); lenny-backports: 2.6.32-bpo.5-686 (2.6.32-23~bpo50+1); lenny: 2.6.26-2-686 (2.6.26-25lenny1); etchnhalf: 2.6.24-etchnhalf.1-686 (2.6.24-6~etchnhalf.9etch3); etch: 2.6.18-6-686 (2.6.18.dfsg.1-26etch2)
20:15<cesurasean>linux-image-2.6.32-5-686?
20:15<dvs>yes
20:16<cesurasean>i think this might be my K7 board which the new kernels won't run on
20:16<dvs>k7 should work with 686
20:17<blarson>cesurasean: then use linux-image-2.6.32-5-486
20:17<cesurasean>what is the difference?
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20:17<blarson>486 works on older processors, and is optimized differently
20:18<blarson>686 requeires a pentium or better
20:19<blarson>s/pentium/pentium 2/
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20:28<dc361>hola amigos estoy creando un server en debia pero no encuentro un manual donde me diga como administrar los grupos por ejemplo el grupo estudiantes tenga una couta en el disco que no tenga acceso a mysql y que otros grupos si pero con determinado tamano
20:28<dondelelcaro>!es
20:28<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
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21:12<freezer>t
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21:13<Hydroxide>f :P
21:14<cthuluh>1
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21:22<cesurasean>I can't boot the new kernel. Is there anyway to copy and paste the busy box info to pastebin? I don't see anything in syslog...
21:22<cesurasean>seems UIDs got messed up for the drive, err something. I don't really understand the message.
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21:29<amitz>for shrinking fs, should I change ext3 to ext2, shrink, then recreate the journal to ext3? Or should I shrink directly from ext3 to ext3?
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21:33<cesurasean>is there no way to copy the information before my system goes to busy box??!?
21:33<cesurasean>or do i have to type all of this by hand?
21:34<amitz>not sure if busy box can have redirection?
21:35<amitz>pipe to a file. Then use a rescue boot disk to copy the file to pastebin?
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21:36<cesurasean>eh, ill just type it out. :P
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21:40<cesurasean>mmy screen sorta looks like this: http://pastebin.com/9aWmuCRi
21:40<cesurasean>anyone know how to fix this?
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21:50<dreamer000>https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Grub2#grub%20%28/etc/default/grub%29
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21:58<cesurasean>dreamer000, what am i looking for, exactly?
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22:00<Penguinboy>http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/10/04/2152241/Take-This-GUI-and-Shove-It
22:00<Penguinboy>What do you think?
22:00<dreamer000>you have to disable fs-by-uuid, don't remember exactly how to do it
22:01<dreamer000>so you can again access through /dev/sdxx until you get it fixed
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22:03<cesurasean>i don't want to disable anything. i just want to fix it. how do i?
22:03<cesurasean>i checked the uid, and it seems fine?
22:03<cesurasean>same as the older kernel im using, and the older works fine
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22:06<dreamer000>It seems the kernel has changed it..
22:06<dreamer000>otherwise you could access the partition
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22:09<cesurasean>why would the kernel have changed it, and not added to grub correctly?
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22:22<dreamer000>now I found: use "blkid" to see the id of the corresponding partition and put it into menu.lst/grub.cfg
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22:30<cesurasean>dreamer000, how do i use blkid?
22:32<cesurasean>i used blkid, and got this: /dev/md0: UUID="49a875c5-7a8b-4491-b737-e4685f715661" TYPE="ext3"
22:32<cesurasean>
22:32<cesurasean>that's the same as in my grub.cfg?
22:32<cesurasean>so why doesn't it work?
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22:42<gnufan>Trying to find succinct explanation of memory usage on 64bit linux. In particular on 64bit host Apache processes now use 200MB instead of 20MB according to "top". pmap and smap show a 2044KB chunk for every shared library. Is this "normal" for 64 bit processes and what/why is it there? "7f9105d2d000-7f9105f2c000 ---p 00007000 ca:01 117311 /usr/lib/php5/20060613/pdo_mysql.so"
22:43<dondelelcaro>gnufan: they don't actually use 200M each. Those bits are mapped and/or shared between processes.
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22:45<gnufan>dondelelcaro: I understand that for x32 more or less, but that isn't how these 64bit systems are behaving hence the question. They certainly result in the system running out of RAM a lot quicker than a 32bit system would.
22:47<dondelelcaro>gnufan: not in my experience.
22:47-!-Rafael [~R@189.51.88.3] has joined #debian
22:48<gnufan>dondelelcaro: Yes but I'm interested in what is happening on my systems not what has happened on yours. Looks like I'll have to read the kernel source for smaps since no one seems to have documented what it means.....
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22:49<cesurasean>can someone please help me under this? - http://pastebin.com/9aWmuCRi
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22:50<dondelelcaro>gnufan: if it's a file and it's mmapped, then you're going to see it as memory usage, even though it's not actually using any
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22:52<dondelelcaro>gnufan: but anyway, what is the actual problem here?
22:52<cesurasean>it says : ALERT! /dev/disk/by-uid/49a875c5-7a8b-b737-e334343434343 does not exist., but there seems to be a symlink under that file name?
22:52<cesurasean>symlink goes to /dev/md0. shouldn't that be good enough for grub?
22:52-!-snof [~snofococo@189.212.120.108] has joined #debian
22:53<dondelelcaro>cesurasean: that's not grub
22:54-!-james [~james@bas11-toronto63-1088752942.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #debian
22:54<dondelelcaro>cesurasean: you should have root=UUID=49a875c5-7a8b-b737-e334343434343 in your grub configuration so that it gets passed to the kernel and the initrd.
22:54-!-james is now known as Guest1762
22:54<cesurasean>let me post my grub.cfg
22:55<dondelelcaro>cesurasean: are you using grub2? or grub-legacy?
22:55<cesurasean>http://pastebin.com/7uZD8bpH
22:55<cesurasean>grub 2
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22:55<cesurasean>you'll see the UID looks correct
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22:56<dondelelcaro>cesurasean: uh... it certainly doesn't match what you just said
22:57<dondelelcaro>(and you can remove ancient kernels that you no longer need)
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23:01<cesurasean>sorry it doesn't match what i just said. that number was fake.
23:01<cesurasean>im fine with leaving older kernels, until the new one works :P
23:01<cesurasean>how do i fix my problem?
23:01<cesurasean>it says that file inside /dev/disks doesn't exist. but, i see symlinks inside that directory?
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23:05<gnufan>dondelelcaro: the problem is these 64bit systems appear to require vastly more RAM to run the same number of Apache processes than a 32bit system. They are guest domains under XEN (I don't control the DOM0). The first indication of a difference is that top reports memory usage of Apache at 20fold what it was on identically configured physical 32bit machine. Afraid I don't have a physical AMD64 machine to compare. So I'm trying to understand memory usage to see i
23:06<cesurasean>no one can chime in and tell me how to fix this boot problem? wtf?
23:07<cesurasean>dondelelcaro, did you see my grub.cfg file?
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23:11-!-bashar [~bashar@178.253.87.202] has joined #debian
23:11<bashar>Hi All
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23:11<bashar>I wanna know what's exactly the release date of Squeez :(
23:12<kop>!wwsbr
23:13<bashar>hello
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23:13<kop>bashar: See http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ and extrapolate the green line down to 0.
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23:15<steve_>hey- i just started using debian squeeze- how do i get netbeans?
23:15<steve_>apt-get install netbeans doesn't do it
23:15<gnufan>cesurasean: have you tried passing rootdelay=10 to the kernel. What changed?
23:15<cesurasean>steve_, have you visited packages.debian.org yet?
23:15<cesurasean>you can search for packages that way
23:15<kop>!tell steve_ about apt-file
23:15<steve_>uh- why doesn't apt-get install netbeans work?
23:15<cesurasean>rootdelay = 10? why would i want to do that?
23:15<kop>!tell steve about why aptitude
23:16<cesurasean>steve_, because that's not the package name
23:16<cesurasean>gnufan, i don't understand how the UID seems to be the same, yet it complains about a file doesn't exist?
23:17<steve_>kop: what is "why aptitude"
23:17<steve_>?
23:17<cesurasean>steve_, check your private messages. kop just sent you one.
23:17<steve_>what is the package name for netbeans? IIRC it used to be called netbeans
23:17<cesurasean>!tell steve_ about why aptitude
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23:18<steve_>whoa- did aptitude come out after apt-get?
23:18<steve_>i must be really behind the times
23:18<cesurasean>steve_, http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=netbeans
23:18<cesurasean>the right package seems to be called netbeans-ide
23:18<gnufan>cesurasean: I hit an issue previously with mirrored disks for which rootdelay was the solution probably based on bug 434138. It happened after a kernel upgrade, but it was a while back, the new kernel simply took longer to get around to recognizing all my disks.
23:19<cesurasean>where do i add rootdelay=10?
23:19<cesurasean>next to UID?
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23:22<cesurasean>nope, still dropping to busy box.
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23:24<steve_>how do i run a "mixed system"
23:24<steve_>like - if i want to install netbeans from lenny, but have the rest of my system as squeeze
23:24<steve_>?
23:25-!-alvarezp [~alvarezp@189.220.43.227.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has joined #debian
23:27<steve_>is that possible?
23:28<gnufan>steve_: possibly, why would you want to? You haven't had time to try the netbeans from Squeeze that cesurasean keeps pointing you at. And yes aptitude is recommended tool according to the Debian reference, although I still find occasion to use apt-get.
23:29-!-edgar is now known as help
23:30<steve_>netbeans isnt in squeeze, gnufan
23:30-!-help is now known as identify
23:31<cesurasean>lol @ identify
23:31<cesurasean>steve_, you download the .deb, then dpkg -i filename.deb
23:31<cesurasean>;)
23:31<cesurasean>wget the filename, then dpkg -i
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23:34<steve_>i dont see a .deb
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23:36-!-mode/#debian [+l 389] by debhelper
23:36<steve_>nevermind, i'm retarded
23:36<steve_>sorry
23:40<cesurasean>it's ok. we are all a bunch of tards in here, anyway.
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23:43<gnufan>cesurasean: I certainly feel like my brain is missing something today.
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23:47<cesurasean>how do i tell grub to use /dev/md0 instead of UID?
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23:48<erik>!help
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23:50<steve_>okay- i got the netbeans*.deb, is there anyway to resolve all the dependencies automatically?
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23:54<tomg>steve: I came in late. apt-get -f install ?
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23:58<steve_>uhm - i am trying to install netbeans tomg
23:58<steve_>and i am running squeeze
23:58<gnufan>steve_: I would use the method outlined in Debian reference to get netbeans from unstable.
23:58<steve_>and this is way too dam complicated
23:59<steve_>how do i do that?
23:59<gnufan>steve_: sorry section 2.7.2 temporarily use unstable. http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch02.en.html#_packages_from_mixed_source_of_archives
---Logclosed Tue Oct 05 00:00:10 2010