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#debian IRC Logs for 2010-11-01

---Logopened Mon Nov 01 00:00:05 2010
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00:24<steve__>hey- i have two computers with 10gig ethernet cards
00:24<steve__>but i cant get them to ping each other
00:24<steve__>any ideas?
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00:33<steve__>does anyone know anything about 10gig ethernet
00:33<edl>sweet, got everything up and working now at last. switched to ubuntu for a newer wine v and it ended up with wow running twice as good as in w7 \o/
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00:35<k-man>how do i get the X clipboard to be in sync with the other clipboard?
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00:39<degenerate>Anyone awake at this hour?
00:40<degenerate>Well I shall ask my question anyway...
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00:41<degenerate>So I'm trying to work out a partitioning scheme. I have considered my needs and come to the following conclusion: I want /var and /home on the same partition.
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00:50<steve__>i made a simple two computer network, but i cant ping the other computer...
00:50<steve__>is there anything wrong with using 10.x.x.x for something like that?
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00:53<steve__>what is the difference between 10.x.x.x a nd 192.168.x.x
00:53<mattcen>steve__: No there shouldn't be anything wrong with a 10.x.x.x network for that. What addresses and subnet masks are you using, and are both systems allowing ICMP through the firewall
00:53<mattcen>Degenerate: What is your question?
00:54<steve__>mattcen: what is ICMP?
00:54<mattcen>The protocol used by Ping
00:54<steve__>using and
00:54<mattcen>With what subnet mask?
00:54<steve__> for subnetmask
00:54<Degenerate>mattcen: I'm wondering if this will work as a partitioning scheme:
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00:55<Degenerate>Install without allocating partitions for /var and /home, put an entry in /etc/mtab to mount my data partition under something like /mnt/data, then copy /var and home across and replace /var and /home in the root dir with symlinks to /mnt/data/var and /mnt/data/home.
00:55<mattcen>I saw your proposal (/home and /var on the same partition), but there was no question attached to it.
00:55<Degenerate>Will this work? Are symlinks fine for this purpose?
00:55<mattcen>Yes, it will probably work, but why would you want to do that?
00:55<steve__>mattcen: i dont think im using a firewall
00:56<mattcen>It's *possible* that /var/ mightn't like symlinks, but *should* work. It *might* be better if you used something like /var/home, and symlinked /var/home to /home.
00:56<mattcen>Degenerate: I'd advise that you'd be better to have *separate* /var and /home partitions. Why would you want them combined?
00:57<mattcen>steve__: Are you running debian on both systems?
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00:58<Degenerate>I want to do it because the stuff in /var and /home is the stuff I want to keep seperate from the system partition and backup seperately, be persistent after reinstalls etc. But the total disk space is limited and I don't want to have two seperate partitions that then turn out to be the wrong sizes and run out of space on one whilst having loads on the other
00:58<mattcen>steve__: Try (as root) iptables-save on each system, and it outputs anything, there's a firewall configured.
00:59<mattcen>Degenerate: I'd suggest you use LVM, and make both partitions relatively small, enlarging when you start running out of space on one.
01:00<mattcen>As I said, you can *probably* use the symlink idea, but I don't think it's the *right* answer.
01:01<Degenerate>I'm concerned about the overhead of LVM. This will be running inside a Xen VM (HVM) with limited resources.
01:02<steve__>mattcen: yah- but it says icmp accept
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01:04<mattcen>steve__: I can't help you anymore unless I can see those firewall outputs then. The possible causes could be: dead network cable, using a hostname instead of an IP address but being unable to resolve the hostname, or incorrect firewall config
01:06<steve__>one second
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01:09<mattcen>steve__: also, try /sbin/mii-tool (as root) to see if it shows that the network cable is connected to both ends)
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01:12<steve__>mii-tool says operation not supported
01:13<mattcen>Degenerate: Just in case it wasn't clear, I don't have any further advice for you. symlinks should probably work, but I don't advise it.
01:13<mattcen>steve__: not supported, or not permitted?
01:13<steve__>not supported
01:14<Degenerate>thank mattcen, I shall do some experimentation
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01:14<mattcen>steve__: That's odd. What sort of network cards are you using?
01:15<steve__>10gig ethernet
01:15<steve__>with a cx4 connection
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01:19<mattcen>10gig ethernet? Nice! I don't think I can be of any help in that case; I haven't dealt with that sort of hardware before.
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01:20<steve__>any ideas?
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01:27<dominick>hi! I'm trying to clone a debian boot partition using "dd if=/dev/hda1 of=/dev/hdb1", since I suspect hda is failing. How do I see the progress of dd? It's been quite a while since I entered the command.
01:27<dominick>I'm using the debian live rescue disk!
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01:28<mattcen>dominick: In a separate terminal, you can send a HUP to the running 'dd' instance to tell it to spit out current progress
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01:29<mattcen>dominick: 'pkill -HUP dd' should do the trick if you've only got 1 dd process currently running
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01:30<dominick>mattcen, it shows no output!
01:31<mattcen>Sorry, I think I was incorrect. I think you need to send 'USR1' instead of 'HUP'...
01:31<mattcen>Yes, the manpage says so:
01:31<mattcen>Sending a USR1 signal to a running `dd' process makes it print I/O statistics to standard error and then resume copying.
01:32<mattcen>Note that the output will be displayed on the terminal running the DD, not the terminal you did the kill on.
01:32<dominick>hmm! It has now killed the dd process! I'll try it again though! thanks!
01:33<mattcen>Sorry, that was probably the HUP that you shouldn't have done :S
01:33<dominick>mattcen, that works! thanks!
01:34<mattcen>No problems :-)
01:34<mattcen>Also: 'while pkill -USR1 dd; do sleep 10; done' should give you a progress update every 10 seconds.
01:35<mattcen>(And if that is the only 'dd' process on the system, the loop will exit when dd does.)
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01:39<dominick>thanks mattcen, the while command really works!
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01:54<mattcen>dominick: Good to hear!
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01:58<helix>if I accidentally deleted my /dev and /proc how can I restore them? will udev fix it if I just reboot or do I need to do something else?
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02:02<gdb>helix: You won't get far with deleting /dev but a reboot will fix it, and you can't delete anything in /proc. Why do you ask?
02:02<helix>I had them bind mounted in ~/chroot/lenny/{dev,proc} and rm -rf'd that directory in order to make more room in my home dir :B
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02:03<helix>well I added the /etc/fstab lines like two years ago and forgot about them
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02:03<helix>for dchroot
02:03<helix>and home was bind mounted
02:03<gdb>Well, /dev/ takes up less than half a meg and /proc doesn't exist on disk, so yeah, that was pretty dumb.
02:04<helix>I don't know if "dumb" is the right description for removing the directories, bind mounting home was probably the dumb thing
02:04<helix>I just thought I was removing a subdir in ~
02:04<gdb>Ah, okay
02:04<gdb>I get it
02:05<gdb>You weren't trying to delete them specifically
02:05<gdb>Nevermind then :-)
02:05<helix>no definitely not
02:05<gdb>Well, color me the dumb one, then, for assuming otherwise.
02:05<gdb>You have my apologies!
02:05<helix>the problem was just that home was bind mounted, so rm -rfing a chroot with it bind mounted, along with anything else,
02:05<helix>removed all those things
02:05<helix>gdb: it's okay it is kind of a "dumb user" question
02:06<helix>alright, so I can reboot safely, I just don't have my homedir anymore
02:06<helix>I thought that was true but wanted to make sure :)
02:06<gdb>Well, I can't really say for sure with /dev but I'm pretty certain it will just be rebuilt with a reboot. As for /proc, there's nothing there to delete. It's just a place to view kernel information. There's nothing physically on the disk associated with it aside from the mount point itself.
02:06<helix>yeah, you're right -- I remember it saying lalala can't delete foo in proc
02:07<helix>and I was like wait why is my homedir empt
02:07<gdb>Hah! I bet that was quite a shock!
02:07<helix>mmm at this point, for this month, I am no longer shocked by losses :)
02:08<helix>I just sold my car, moved out of my apartment, lost someone, then lost my phone
02:08<helix>so losing my homedir, well, whatever
02:08<helix>I had most of it backed up
02:08<helix>but is i inconvenient
02:08<helix>s/i //
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02:24<gdb>Oh, man, I'm sorry to hear that, helix.
02:25<gdb>Sorry for the late response. I'm trying to rsync some things out of a backup before the .. backup runs and deletes what's in there.
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02:35<mjt>where does wine place its start menu? All installed windows programs are shown in main start menu but I can't find them.
02:40<mjt>i found ~/.config/menus/applications-merged/ -- there there are many wine-*.desktop files. But deleting them does not help.
02:41<helix>gdb: no problem. I restored most of the important stuff from backup. glad I had one with me...
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03:44<yubahaq>please tell Me how to change my default resolution in lubuntu 10.10
03:45<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it is unlikely to live up to Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu ( instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian>.
03:46<EmleyMoor>#lubuntu on is best for Lubuntu
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03:47<EmleyMoor>#lxde here or there may also help
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05:28<help>Hi all.... Anyone have the time to help straighten out ATI driver issues on Lenny?
05:30<mjt>dpkg, where are you? ;)
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05:34<help>Has anyone succefully followed the instructional on this site? Installer in Lenny.... I am stuck at "Copy file and create symbolic link: (for 32-bit system)"
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05:57<EmleyMoor>I'm trying to monitor the level of an LP using audacity, but I can't get it to restart monitoring for the second side... what do I need to do?
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05:59<EmleyMoor>Hmmm... it seems to be struggling with devices
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06:05<EmleyMoor>Shame cdlabelgen can't handle the circle-P symbol
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07:11<EmleyMoor>Is "foreporting" a package reasonable and easy to do?
07:17<petemc>do you mean backport?
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07:19<EmleyMoor>No, I don't - backporting is porting from new/future to old releases - this is porting from old to new
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07:51<mansi>hey friends, i have two interfaces in my gateway server. eth0 and eth1. Suddenly the name was reversed and my gateway went down,ie eth1 became eth0
07:51<mansi>is there any way to permanantly set name for network interfaces?
07:52<fbrosson>Edit /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules
07:52<mjt>or use ifrename
07:53<mansi>thanks friends
07:57<mansi>In 70-persistant-net.rules this is waht exists. SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", DRIVERS=="?*", ATTR{address}=="00:1e:a6:00:ff:86", ATTR{dev_id}=="0x0", ATTR{type}=="1", KERNEL=="eth*", NAME="eth0"
07:57<mansi>What is to be changed to make it permanant?
07:57<fbrosson>Just change NAME="eth0" into NAME="eth1"
07:58<fbrosson>Then I think you have to reboot (I don't have ifrename)
07:59<mansi>Okay, so we can hope it wont change again isn't, I am wondering why it suddenly reversed the name upon a reboot, I haven't touched any hardware or something.
08:01<mjt>naming it ethN again is racy at best
08:01<mjt>you'd better name it somethng like eth-lan eth-wan or somesuch
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08:03<mansi>okay, nice, thanks friends :)
08:03<mjt>i highly doubt there's a need to change anything in that file without such rename. Most likely cause is that it _tried_ to rename but failed because the other name were already here.
08:03<mjt>ie, if you have eth0 and eth1 already, and tries to rename eth0 to eth1, it will fail.
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08:13<mansi>sorry friends got disconnected
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08:31<Xeross>What's with the userlimit
08:32<Xeross>For some reason my key pair works fine with 5 of my 6 servers but they are all configured similarly
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08:33<Xeross>Whoops wrong file name
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08:49<roidelapluie>Is there a systemd-related channel for debian users?
08:49<tarzeau>that'd be here?
08:50<roidelapluie>Does debian have a systemd init script for openvpn?
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08:59<mAniAk->by the looks of it yes
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09:00<edl>anyone who knows what mscd001 is ? i get a error message that no drives found when trying to boot from cd. boot from flash drive works without a prob tho.
09:00<roidelapluie>no systemd init script
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11:20<tash>the channel is full
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11:40<not_david>maybe debhelper and dpkg are strung out from all that halloween candy and are taking the day off?
11:41-!-mode/#debian [+l 430] by Ganneff
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12:08<tecneeq>hi gents. how much diskspace do i need for squeeze amd64 without GUI? are 3 gb enough?
12:09<bremner_>500M is probably workable.
12:09<bremner_>(not counting swap)
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12:10<tecneeq>then why is my FAI installation running out of space?
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12:11<chealer>tecneeq: did you check the installation guide?
12:11<tecneeq>to be honest, not since potato ;)
12:12<tecneeq>i guess FAIs default partiton scheme doesn't agree with my miniature harddisk
12:13<Myon>if that's a full gnome/kde/whatever installation, that might not be enough. my / has 5 GB
12:13<tecneeq>nope, just the basics plus sshd
12:13<chealer>tecneeq: see
12:13<tecneeq>not debians fault, that much is obvious
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12:15<jhutchins_lt>what's fai?
12:15<chealer>tecneeq: actually, that's for i386
12:16<tecneeq>fully automatted installation tool
12:16<tecneeq>chealer: doesn't seem to matter, 3 gigs should be more than enough
12:17<jhutchins_lt>tecneeq: If you've sub-partitioned it's possible one of the sub-partitions is out of space.
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12:18<tecneeq>jhutchins_lt:, like preseeding, but works with most major distributions
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12:19<tecneeq>jhutchins_lt: right, i guess that's the problem, i'm just starting with it, so i guess i have to learn how to tell FAI that i would like it different
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12:26<bremner>I seem to recall fai has it's own channel.
12:26*bremner hasn
12:26<bremner>'t used FAI for a long time
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12:28<tecneeq>i found the file that matters, installing as we speak
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12:30<tecneeq>i think in a few weeks the author of fai will be at my sweatshop to teach about it. since i'm just an intern and the course sells for a few hundred euro bucks i have to get it going on my own ;)
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12:47<bgat>anyone here had any success running Debian on the latest Mac mini's? I have tried the squeeze installer, everything seems to go fine but then when I reboot, I hang at the bootloader with the flashing file folder image (which I think means "could not find boot partition"). Anyone have any suggestions?
12:50<supplicant>bgat: does squeeze have an EFI bootloader? I know that Macs use EFI but I don't know the details of the squueze installer
12:50<bgat>supplicant: good question, to which I have no answer other than "I don't know"
12:51<supplicant>hrm, I don't know if the bot knows either
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12:52<ssb>I have a !mac box with efi (acer timelineX); doesn't boot too.
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12:52<supplicant>maybe try LILO instead of GRUB
12:52<bgat>i wonder if the only way to make it work is under Boot Camp...
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12:53<bgat>I tried that, but ended up at the same result...
12:54<bgat>(I don't recall if my install under Boot Camp left the partition tables alone, or not)
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12:56<bgat>supplicant: yes, I have been working from that document. Even using his ISO. Still no joy
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12:59<bgat>just noticed that Apple's disk utility says that the disk is partitioned as GUID, even though I asked for MBR. Retrying, making sure to work more carefully. Hopefully that's all the problem is...
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13:07<rabih>is a wireless card mean a wireless usb or there is a big difference
13:08<cahoot>I think the term is used for both pci and usb
13:08<petemc>in my experience it is
13:08<petemc>cardbus too, tho less commonly
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13:09<supplicant>I've found it usually refers to PCMCIA cards
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13:09<cahoot>rabih: there might be a practical difference when it comes to linuxsupport
13:09<supplicant>but maybe that's just mw
13:09<supplicant>!hello speedvin
13:10<supplicant>hrm, no bot
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13:10<cahoot>you taking its place?
13:10<supplicant>might as well
13:10<jhutchins_lt>I think it originally was mostly used for pcmcia/cardbus cards, but also ISA/PCI devices, but has become sort of generic for "thingie".
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13:42<moglash>i would need some help :) i want to make a debian lenny install cd with the newest kernel - because the current stable version doesn't see my motherboard -, so on an other maschine i have compiled it then i used Simple-CDD but the image that i've created is still with kernel 2.6.26 what i'm doing wrong?
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13:46<tecneeq>did you consider squeeze (wich, for most things, works perfectly)
13:47<moglash>i would like to make a web server
13:47<mjt>and? :)
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13:47<moglash>so security is very important - testing version sounded unsecure tome
13:47<moglash>but im not a debian expert :D
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13:48<mase_>what do you mean with "not se your motherboard"? the chipset?
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13:48<mjt>well, kernel is the core of the system. Yet it weren't scary to you to use testing kernel... ;)
13:49<moglash>oh i ment the last stable version not the test one
13:49<mjt>and for the hw support part.. which device it does not support?
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13:49<mjt>last stable is the one in lenny
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13:49<moglash>lenny got 6.26 and the last stable is 6.36 isn it?
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13:50<mjt>hehe ok. by that definition of "stable" everything is stable... ;)
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13:50<tecneeq>then i am stable too
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13:50<moglash>then you say that i should use squeeze?
13:51<mjt>any just released kernel usually contains lots of issues and bugs
13:51<tecneeq>moglash: the kernel you have is the vanilla kernel from, it's brandnew, i believe that the kernel in squeeze 2.6.32-something is a far better base
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13:51<mjt>squeeze is the esiest way. But i really doubt lenny kernel does not work on your hw... which hardware it is?
13:51<tecneeq>moglash: however, the squeeze kernel will be updated if there is a problem, your kernel depends on you knowing that there is a problem
13:52<moglash>this one :
13:53<tecneeq>i have seen enough. it has more than 64mb ram, so you need something newer than lenny indeed ;)
13:53<mjt>and which driver it lacks?
13:53<tecneeq>just kidding, btw
13:54<luis1>what is the nick of the bot of this channel? (the one that answers questions) and how do I use it?
13:54<mjt>tecneeq: amount of memory has nothing to do with that
13:54<mjt>luis1: it's down currently: dpkg
13:54<tecneeq>mjt: of course, i was kidding, mate
13:54<luis1>ok, i thought so, but i could not find dpkg...
13:54<tecneeq>moglash: so, what is the problem then? the NIC?
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13:55<moglash>it dont even see the sata controller
13:55<tecneeq>i see
13:55<moglash>neither nic
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13:56<mjt>it's ahci but it's missing pci ids ;)
13:56<mjt>the sata controller that is
13:57<tecneeq>i would try squeeze, testing or not:
13:57<tecneeq>wait, is it amd64 or ia64?
13:57<mjt>definitely try squeeze
13:58<moglash>so for example even it's testing it's more stable than ubuntu 10.10?
13:58<moglash>i mean more secure
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13:58<mjt>i suspect "secure" = "bug free"
13:59<mjt>for that, they all are quite at the same level
13:59<mjt>as in, known bugs are being fixed
13:59<tecneeq>moglash: that's hard to say, but in general i would say ubuntu sucks and debian sucks less. so that should answer that ;)
13:59<Gathond>moglash: no, it would not be more secure, since ubuntu would be getting timely security fixes, testing may not.
13:59<tecneeq>mjt: ubuntu 10.10 is bleeding edge, lots of bugs to be found
13:59<Gathond>at least if ubuntu cares enough to push security updates
14:00<mjt>Gathond: squeeze is already getting timely fixes
14:00<mjt>one of them was the glibc vuln
14:00<tecneeq>moglash: another solution would be ubuntu 10.04, not the newest, but new enough
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14:01<Gathond>that is not the same, as far as I remember the security team does not support testing (they may now it is frozen but generally not), whether a few items does is probably more luck fro those packages
14:01<tecneeq>mjt: but there is nobody to blame if no fix is available. it's testing. no promises.
14:01<mjt>well, there's nobody to blame anyway, even for -stable :)
14:02<tecneeq>but you can shake your fist at the security team with stable. that's worth something, isn't it?
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14:03<qq->!tell moglash -about kmuto
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14:03<mjt>does not work ;)
14:03<moglash>so i should use ubuntu 10.4 or debian squeeze ?
14:04<tecneeq>anyways, we run a bunch of servers and about 40 clients with testing. works. good enough for me
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14:04<tecneeq>moglash: i would say either is a good choice right now for a webserver. then again, it's not my job depending on it ;)
14:06<tecneeq>then again, there is some suckery in ubuntu. they have left the path of truth with their sudo stuff. don't get me started about upstart, wich sucks plenty
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14:06<moglash>okay thank you very mouch
14:07<moglash>much :)
14:07<tecneeq>type this in 10.04 and you know what i mean: init S
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14:09<mjt>if one util or service is being replaced with another, the new one isn't supposed to work exactly the same way as old.
14:10<tecneeq>unless it's claimed that it is
14:11<mjt>the discussion about replacing sysV init is ongoing for years. there already were several attempts, one of them is runit which is quite successful.
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14:12<mjt>but i haven't seen upstart yet :)
14:15<tecneeq>quite fast at boot time, but there is no proper singleuser mode. i guess faster booting is more important than singleuser ;)
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14:22<jhutchins_lt>After all, Windows gets by without single-user mode.
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14:23<tecneeq>true. but see what it does to admins and users! grey hair! running shoes! whatnot!
14:24<mjt>windows actually have similar concept, it's called "safe mode"
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14:25<bremner>which makes normal boot "unsafe mode" ;)
14:25<tecneeq>may i repeat: grey hair! running shoes! whatnot! ;)
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14:34<jiu>Hello, I have got a question: I want to install lenny onto a, but the installer says "No network hardware detected". Apparently I need the tg3 driver, but how do i incorporate it into the installer of lenny?
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14:37<tecneeq>afaik there is an expert mode, if you use it, you can choose to incorporate nonfree firmwares. i have seen the preseed value today in a file ...
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14:37<jhutchins_lt>jiu: I think there's something in the install guide where you can use additional drivers.
14:37<jhutchins_lt>jiu: We have a bot with lots of nice factoids pointing to those, but it's off-line now.
14:38<jhutchins_lt>jiu: google debian install guide should get you there though.
14:38<jiu>i found that guide, thank you. I still look for the driver part
14:39-!-mode/#debian [+l 443] by debhelper
14:39<tecneeq># If non-free firmware is needed for the network or other hardware, you can
14:39<tecneeq># configure the installer to always try to load it, without prompting.
14:39<tecneeq>d-i hw-detect/load_firmware boolean true
14:40<tecneeq>so it's there, somewhere
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14:42<jiu>I found it, thank you
14:42<jiu>And that firmware can be a .deb package?
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14:46<tecneeq>dunno, but there are lots of firmware-packages
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14:46<tecneeq>aptitude search firmware | wc -l
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14:47<tecneeq>mostly for wlan-NICs and such
14:47<jiu>I found mine, thank you
14:47<mase_>firmware for tg3 is in "firmware-linux-nonfree"
14:47<jiu>But according to the install documentation If a device driver requests firmware that is not available, debian-installer will display a dialog offering to load the missing firmware." It does not, it just tells me "no network hardware detected". You know what I can do to make the installer prompt me for firmware?
14:48<jiu>i am on expert install
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14:49<jiu>I'm sorry I always get kicked out
14:49<mase_>jiu i think it depends on if tg3 was supported on the lennys 2.6.26 kernel/installer
14:50<mjt>tg3 is supported for a looong time
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14:50<tecneeq>jiu: no idea, sorry mate
14:50<mjt>2.4 kernel too
14:50<jiu>But there's no one asking me to load a firmware, it just tells me "no network hardware detected"...
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14:51<tecneeq>jiu: open a shell, install the package by hand?
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14:51<jiu>I would like to but the shell does not offer dpkg, thats how you install packages, isnt it?
14:53<tecneeq>never tried anything like that in the installer. is there a apt-get? like apt-get install firmw....
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14:53<jiu>no nothing
14:53<jiu>I think i'll go with ubuntu
14:53<jiu>thank you for your help
14:54<jiu>and have a nice evening :)
14:54<tecneeq>you too
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14:54<tecneeq>probably not in his path, the stuff he needs
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14:54<tecneeq>oh man, that sounded like yoda
14:54<tecneeq>like yoda i sound ;)
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15:08<luis1>on debian-newsletter:
15:08<luis1>Debian Installer 6.0 Beta1 release
15:08<luis1>= Improvements in this release of the installer =
15:08<luis1> * Support for isohybrid images when using cdrom-detect/try-usb.
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15:09<luis1>does this mean I can now have a "big" image on a USB like in ubuntu?
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15:09<luis1>(sorry did not copy past, used ctrl enter)
15:10<luis1>do weekliy build have this integrated already?
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15:17<tash>where is dpkg
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15:37<eightyeight>so, i just upgraded bitlbee on sid, and noticed that they haven't compiled in otr support. does anyone know of the reason for this?
15:37<bremner>eightyeight: did you check the changelog?
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15:38<eightyeight>bremner: checking now
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15:39<eightyeight>ah, via plugin
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15:43<clao>hi. I want to have a desktop using openbox and debian... which display manager would be best? i want to have auido and video as well, but dont want to install the whole gnome pckages and all that. Please help me.
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15:44<mjt>lxde as an alternative environment? xfce?
15:45<ompaul>lxde is rather nice
15:45<mjt>well, when it works :)
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15:46<mjt>it's quite incomplete. I use it currently. Reportedly xfce is far more useable.
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15:46<clao>im using openbox but sometime use xfce
15:47<clao>but m on ubuntu. wnat to se if i can "build" a debian really light desktop, at least as the one i currentlyt have
15:47<ompaul>I've been using it on squeeze in one of the incarnations I use, it seems light and snappy
15:48<clao>bunt dont know which display manager would work best.. maybe xdm
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15:49<ompaul>try a few kdm is my own preference
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15:50*mjt is using slim but it's quite buggy
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16:06<Blitzmerker>Hi, how can I disable auto-connecting with all WLANs? (GNOME on Debian unstable)
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16:18<beaufils>any idea why /etc/cron.d/anything produce 'permission denied' when using www-data user instead of root ?
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16:20<retrospectacus>beaufils: umm maybe because that place is not writable by www-data?
16:21<qq->beaufils, see > ls -al /etc/cron.d/
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16:22<qq->and > id www-data
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16:27<qq->dpkg, wb
16:27<dpkg>thanks, qq-. It's good to be back.
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16:31<AlTiFe>Is there a easy way to install Debian in a netbook only with a pendrive and a debian iso?
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16:34<retrospectacus>!usb install
16:34<dpkg>Yes, it is possible to install Debian from a USB stick/thumbdrive/pen drive/key, as long as your system's BIOS can boot from USB. Details are in the Installation Guide, see . To download USB stick images, ask me about <install debian>. to prepare from Windows. BIOS can't boot from USB? Use
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16:37<beaufils> ls -al /etc/cron.d get two lines : .placeholder and '-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 337 nov 1 06:51 local-awstats'
16:38<beaufils>id www-data gives 'uid=33(www-data) gid=33(www-data) groupes=33(www-data)'
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16:39<retrospectacus>beaufils: well take the time to learn about unix file permissions and you will see why www-data cannot write there.... what are you trying to do?
16:39<beaufils>the trouble is thant even a simple cron file with this line gets permission denied '* * * * * www-data date >/tmp/foo'
16:40<qwd>AlTiFe: Check out Unetbootin
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16:41<beaufils>the script in /etc/cron.d/local-awstats run a script which write on directory in which www-data have full rights...
16:41<beaufils>www-data is not able to do anything through cron ?
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16:43<retrospectacus>beaufils: you should use the crontab command to do that... as root, crontab -uwww-data -e
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16:46<retrospectacus>it's much easier than messing around with those files
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16:49<beaufils>retrospectacus, yep but I would like to use /etc/cron.d as described in crontab(5) and as is used in many package (including awstats)
16:50<beaufils>retrospectacus, are you aware of some bug with cron dealing with files in /etc/cron.d ?
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17:00<wamt>whats the debian dev channel?
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17:02<devil> #debian-devel
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17:07<retrospectacus>beaufils: no, I use the exact command I gave you for making cronjobs for websites
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17:08<retrospectacus>though the lines do not contain the username
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17:14<edl>I just cant get my hard drive to work, constantly getting stuck at boot (23) if i connect it to the motherboard, unless i plug it in the GSATA connection, but still, cant acess it.
17:15<f8l>Hello. I get "E: Release file expired, ignoring [blah blah]" while `apt-get update`. What does it mean?
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17:22<ompaul>f8l: error there, how long since the problem days weeks months years?
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17:23<f8l>ompaul: Five days.
17:24<ompaul>f8l: so you have last weeks snapshot of sqeeze?
17:25<f8l>ompaul: No, I don't think so.
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17:27<ompaul>f8l: it seemed reasonable, what version is your CD for?
17:27<ompaul>f8l: sorry ignore me I'm on some other planet and not thinking crooked let alone straight
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17:29<f8l>ompaul: So it can be because of Squeeze being released soon? I hope it's temporary.
17:31<ompaul>f8l: na, just faulty brain of mine
17:32<f8l>ompaul: Again, I hope it's temporary. ;-)
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17:35<edl>No one who knows what can be wrong if i get stuck at boot when i plug in one of my hd's ?
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17:37<devil>edl: sata drive?
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17:38<ompaul>f8l: what does the second line of this say? lsb_release -a | tr -d '\n'
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17:42<retrospectacus>edl: extra drive has changed the drives' order on the bios, sda2 is now sda3 and grub is now in a different place -> no boot
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17:42<jhutchins_lt>edl: Just a guess, but if the drive takes the name of a drive you're using to boot then the boot files won't be found.
17:42<jhutchins_lt>edl: Need to look at dmesg & syslog and consider enabling bootlog, but also need to know where in the boot process it stops and what it says.
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17:46<BiG-R0N>does the fact that my debian box can only connect to this irc server mean i got an ident issue?
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17:46<edl>well, I figured out wich hd it is that is giving me problems by unpluging them one after the other untill the system booted, so i know wich one it is, and everytime i plug it in it the comp wont boot. i get stuck on that screen when the bios is counting the sata ports. it gets stuck on 23 ( should go to 100) the only way i can have the drive plug in and successfully boot is by plugging it in to the GSATA connection, whatever that is.
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17:48<f8l>ompaul: I guess it's bug #598428. I'll just wait. I think I can live for week without upgrades. ;-)
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17:48<ompaul>f8l: or a mirror sync
17:48<edl>and when i plug it int to the GSATA the bios finds it, but i can not acess it in linux, tryed to plug in both my raptor disks to the GSATA connections, only one of them showing up in linux tho. got me wondering if the disc is broken in some way
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17:49<f8l>ompaul: I tried a different mirror – it didn't help.
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17:53<edl>oh yeah, almost forgot, if i got the hd pluged in, i cant acess bios.
17:53<ompaul>f8l: not having those issues with been using it most of today ... and the weekend for squeeze they have multi gig connections (about 40 or something)
17:53<retrospectacus>edl: sounds wild. I hope you get it working :)
17:54<edl>no idea what the problem is then huh ? :(
17:54<jon0694>how complicated is it to install proprietary drivers for radeon cards in debian. is it worth the trouble?
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17:55<edl>jon0694, dunno about ati but i installed nvidia prop drivers without a problem.
17:55<f8l>ompaul: I'll try it, thanks.
17:56<jon0694>did you have to make a lot of manual inputs into configuration files to get it working?
17:56<edl>no, i just killed gnome and installed it outside of x, then i ran nvidia x config, and done
17:56<jon0694>this wiki guide here looks like a nighmare:
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17:57<ompaul>f8l: should be ok let me know
17:58<jon0694>what should be ok?
17:58<edl>doesnt look so bad, just copy and paste :p
17:58<jon0694>oh... you're funny huh?
17:59<jon0694>... and linux can't figure out why they can't take off and get windows marketshare... i think i figured that one out
17:59<retrospectacus>jon0694: that guide is really old
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18:00<jon0694>who want's to go through all that
18:00<ompaul>jon0694: this is the current version, and anyone who wants to make their debian work would do it
18:01<retrospectacus>there are lots of linuxes that don't have to go through anything... debian is FREE and does not install non-free stuff by default is all
18:01<ompaul>s/work/work with it/
18:01<edl>jon0694, if you want easy prop drivers just pick ubuntu. i did, needed a newer v of wine then debian could offer me.
18:02<jon0694>tried ubuntu... didn't like it
18:02<edl>erm, debian and ubuntu is kinda 90% the same imo :p
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18:03<ompaul>it is the 10% that makes debian special ;-)
18:03<valdyn>jon0694: we dont want market share, we dont need it
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18:04<jon0694>sure u do
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18:04<edl>haha ye maybe :) But still, if you try ubuntu as your first linux os and move to Debian for other reasons then debians stability, you wont find much. this is only my point of view ofc
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18:05<retrospectacus>market share = noobs
18:06<valdyn>jon0694: to put it very bluntly, debian is be hackers, for (aspiring) hackers. Different people are better off using something else first.
18:06<valdyn>( thats ofcource slightly exaggerated )
18:07<edl>that didnt make any sense to me, wy is Debian for hackers ?
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18:07<f8l>ompaul: Looks like Polish mirrors are out of sync. Thank you for help.
18:07<ompaul>where the definition of hacker is a coder
18:07<jon0694>do you know how much productivity is lost by civilization as a whole because of all these incompatibility problems (french, chinese, english, MS window, linux, free bsd, blu-ray, hd-dvd, vcr, betamax, etc. etc.)... humanity would be at alpha centauri if we agreed on 1 protocal
18:07<ompaul>f8l: np
18:07<valdyn>edl: not illegal stuff
18:08<edl>still doesnt make sense to me :) wy is debian for coders ?
18:08<qwd>jon0694: no one wants to go through all that, that's why smart people avoid hardware that requires proprietary drivers.
18:08<retrospectacus>jon0694: almost as much as to Facebook
18:08<valdyn>jon0694: different people cant appreciate its beaty, and have no use for it either
18:08<valdyn>dammit, *beauty*
18:08<ompaul>edl: it is seen as more of a home for coders due to its community structure and the DFSG and DSC
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18:09<ompaul>edl: a democracy of developers (dds that is)
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18:09<edl>ah, then the Debian community is for coders, not the Debian OS
18:09<ompaul>which has been opened up under the recent GR (general resolution to community participants)
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18:11<edl>imo it's not a valid thing to say that debian is more for coders then any other OS or distro, it's just that the Debian community might be favorable for some coders. again, only my point of view :)
18:12<valdyn>edl: I didnt say that at all
18:12<ompaul>valdyn: I made the error of saying that
18:12<ompaul>edl: much better phrased
18:12<valdyn>edl: In ubuntu the customer feedback matters, but does debian care about the input from joe sixpack?
18:13<ompaul>valdyn: if it comes with a fix or good bug report yes
18:13<valdyn>edl: its like if you cant even write a useful bug report, then youre out
18:13<valdyn>ompaul: like joe sixpack is going to write that
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18:13<ompaul>valdyn: if he wants to report his favourite program is not working, or he'll find someone who can do the report
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18:14<ompaul>valdyn: I am a case in point but no six pack just six bellies ;-
18:14<valdyn>ompaul: yea, theres no hard line
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18:16<edl>hmm, back to my hdd for a sec, if i plug it in to a different computer and that computer also fail to boot, then there must be some wrong with the hd itself right ?
18:16<valdyn>edl: no, why?
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18:16<valdyn>edl: i mean, a hdd does not need to be broken in order to fail to boot
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18:17<ompaul>edl: if you stick it in another computer and stick in a live cd and it can't find it then you might have a case
18:17<valdyn>edl: plug it in, run badblocks on it
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18:20<edl>oh, i must have said something missleading. There isnt anything on this particular drive that i can boot, no OS or something like that. the problem is, with that disc connected to a motherboard, the computer do not get past boot. i got 3 drives in my comp atm, 2 storage discs and a raptor disk with ubuntu on it. everything working ok, if i plug in the other raptor disk, ithe comp will freeze while booting and i wont be able to acess bios with
18:20<edl>that drive pluged in.
18:20<jhutchins_lt>edl: You need to give us details on how it "fails to boot".
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18:21<jhutchins_lt>edl: Like we told you, the most likely problem is that it changes the order of drive naming so that the system isn't where the bootloader expects it.
18:21<jone0694>hey can somebody give that link again to the new radeon proprietary driver install wiki?
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18:21<dpkg>[radeon] A brand of graphic processing units by ATI ( The radeon open source display driver is packaged for Debian as xserver-xorg-video-radeon, optionally install libgl1-mesa-dri for 3D acceleration. Squeeze users: ask me about <radeon firmware>. #radeon on See also <radeonhd>, <fglrx>.
18:21<ompaul>jon0694: this is the current version,
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18:22<jhutchins_lt>edl: Worst case is there's a short in the drive and it's drawing enough power to pull down the PS on the motherboard.
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18:24<edl>Ok, I have a Gigabyte P35-DS4 motherboard, and after the motherboard boot image has loades, the computer starts to count from 0-100. it is showing all the drives that is connected to the computer, it shows the raptor disk and both my storage devices, then it moves on and boots into ubunut, BUT, if i plug in the other raptor disk, it will stop counting at 23 and freeze.
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18:25<jhutchins_lt>edl: Hardware problem.
18:26<jhutchins_lt>edl: You could check for a bios update, but it sounds to me like bad hardware - nothing to do with linux if it doesn't get out of the bios.
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18:28<edl>Ye, everything has been working great up untill now, i ran w7 on two raptor disks in raid, then i decided to do a dualboot with fbsd on one of the storage disks, i messed up somewere in the install and when the install was done and the comp rebooted the prob was there, unhooked the raptor disk, so i could get into bios and turned of raid mode, installed ubuntu on the raptor disk, but still. i got a raptor disk laying here not used, and i want
18:28<edl>to use it for hacking tosh :(
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18:30<jhutchins_lt>edl: Again, if it's not getting out of the bios, linux has nothing to do with it.
18:30<jhutchins_lt>edl: I believe you've had a hardware failure.
18:30<edl>maybe i should flash the bios or something, seems as the cdrom is freaking out also, cant boot anything from cdrom, allways get something about Oak technologies mscd001 not found, no drives found aborting installation etc etc etc a:/
18:31<jhutchins_lt>edl: One of the options is to boot the system, then connect the disk, see what happens. Linux can be very good for this because it gives you excellent error info.
18:31<jhutchins_lt>edl: Also wouldn't hurt to check all of the cabling.
18:32<edl>its not the cablings, checked them all and replaced them all with extra cablings i had.
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18:33<edl>but, hardware failure as in youre raptor disk / motherboard is broken, just throw it away and buy new, or something is wrong but can be fixed... ? :S
18:33<edl>pls say it's not the motherboard, i cant afford a new mobo atm :'(
18:34<jhutchins_lt>edl: My first suspect woudl be the raptor.
18:36<edl>ok, i hope so. but since my cdrom has started to act stange im kinda worried, tried 3 different cdrom drives without being able to boot from cd/dvd. installed from a usbfdd.
18:36<edl>but isnt mscd001 a windows thingy :p
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19:21<luis1>on debian newsletter: Debian Installer 6.0 Beta1 release
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19:22<luis1> * Support for isohybrid images when using cdrom-detect/try-usb.
19:22<luis1> does this mean I can now have a "big" image on a USB like in ubuntu?
19:23<cthuluh>you mean a 645MB iso?
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19:26<cthuluh>I asked you a question...
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19:30<guilherme>do you know a video player that i can use subtitles?
19:30<valdyn>guilherme: which one cant?
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19:32<guilherme>i tryed dragon player and i cant use subtitles there
19:33<abrotman>wtf is dragon player?
19:34<retrospectacus>dragon player is a real POS that comes with KDE
19:34<guilherme>could you sugest a player for me?
19:34<abrotman>what is the backend it uses?
19:34<amphi>mplayer has always been good to me
19:35<abrotman>it doesn't ?
19:35<retrospectacus>guilherme: vlc or mplayer
19:35<guilherme>i use kde, may i use kmplayer? or mplayer?
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19:36<retrospectacus>abrotman: apparently it's "Codeine player"
19:36<retrospectacus>guilherme: yes
19:38<guilherme>i have kmplayer and it doesnt suport subtitles
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19:39<amphi>guilherme: how can it not? it's just a FE to mplayer, no?
19:39<abrotman>maybve the movie doesn't have subtitles?
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19:40<retrospectacus>guilherme: should work... the subtitle file needs the same filename as the movie, or you can use the "open file" thing in the player gui
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19:44<guilherme>ok, worked with the same name, but i cant load it at open file
19:45<retrospectacus>should be something like "video-subtitle-open"
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19:46<guilherme>i searched, but.. no problem
19:46<guilherme>thanks for all
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19:48<borman>guilherme: try smplayer, it works fine with subtitles
19:49<guilherme>ok, i ll try it
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19:56<guilherme>smplayer worked well
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19:56<guilherme>thanks for all
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20:29<jc0694>why does the debian ati proprietary wiki not ever show when to install the actual propietary driver:
20:30<jc0694>and what does "squeeze" mean?
20:31<dondelelcaro>jc0694: uh, it does?
20:31<dondelelcaro>jc0694: fglrx-driver is the proprietary driver
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20:32<jc0694>i'm expecting to see a line that say's something like "sh"
20:32<dondelelcaro>jc0694: that would involve using ati's installer, which is horribly broken
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20:32<dondelelcaro>jc0694: it's been repackaged into a set of packages which are in non-free
20:33<jc0694>i downloaded something from ati's website called "" I'm not supposed to use this?
20:33<dondelelcaro>jc0694: right.
20:34<jc0694>???? so freaking lost
20:34<dondelelcaro>jc0694: if you're running Lenny (the current stable version of Debian), just follow the instructions on that page under the Lenny section
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20:34<jc0694>why/how is the driver from ATI's website broken?
20:35<dondelelcaro>jc0694: the installer is broken. You won't be able to upgrade it, remove it, etc.
20:35<jc0694>i'd think that should work
20:35<dondelelcaro>and we don't support it here
20:35<jc0694>it will mess my system up if I use it?
20:35<dondelelcaro>jc0694: who knows?
20:36<jc0694>i'm only doing this because the default driver that comes with debian is horrible. i get like 350 fps on glxgears
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20:37<jc0694>i have an onboard chip but still... i should get better than that right?
20:38<dondelelcaro>the free driver we ship is fine unless you're doing 3d stuff; if you want to use the proprietary driver, follow the instructions on that page
20:38<jc0694>what does the "Squeeze" section do. should i follow that part too?
20:38<dondelelcaro>jc0694: what version of Debian are you running?
20:38<jc0694>how can i find that out?
20:39<dondelelcaro>jc0694: uh... you installed it, didn't you?
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20:39<dondelelcaro>jc0694: but lsb_release -a; or the output from apt-cache policy; will tell you
20:40<jc0694>all i know is that it was debian (just downloaded from main website)... the netinstall or something
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20:41<jc0694>so don't follow the section in the wiki titled "squeeze"?
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20:42<jc0694>alright... here goes
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20:46<edl>If i boot a iso from a cd or dvd and enter something called Caldera dr-dos 7.03 is the iso corrupted then or something ? bacause i certenly didnt download a caldera whatever it is iso :p
20:48<dondelelcaro>edl: who knows? that's not a Debian cd if it does that
20:49<dondelelcaro>(or it's booting off something else besides the CD)
20:49<edl>no matter in fact it's not the debian cd, nor the fbsd cd, it's ubuntu cd and Empire EFI
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20:51<abrotman>edl: so how is this question related to #debian ?
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20:53<edl>must have missed the rule -anything not directly related to debian is strictly forbidden to discuss
20:54<abrotman>You joined here to ask about an Ubuntu CD?
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20:55<edl>i joined here using debian, still have the channel on auto connect and still follows it, just as i follow other channels discussing distros or os'es im not currently using.
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20:56<amphi>'ubuntu & empire EFI'? wtf is that?
20:57<abrotman>not on-topic
20:57<edl>it's a kind of airplane and an force ability
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20:58<abrotman>edl: do you have a Debian related question ?
20:58<edl>not that i can think of atm no i dont
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21:00<jc0694>it's debian related but u won't like it. i'm going to install the driver from ATI's website. in order to increase my chances of this working can i simply unistall xserver-xorg-video-radeon through synaptic and then follow the instructions from ATI?
21:01<jc0694>otherwise it will be a conflict if i just install over the existing correct?
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21:01<amphi>xserver-xorg-video-radeon is the free driver, nothing to do with the proprietary blob
21:02<edl>dunno about ati cards and drivers but i never had any probs with nvidia drivers and i never had any troubles installing them, never cared for uninstalling the free drivers either
21:02<jc0694>right... but that's what is installed on my machine when I installed debian. i should uninstall this and then install the proprietary driver from ATI's website correct?
21:03<jc0694>is that the only video driver (xserver-xorg-video-radeon) that I need to uninstall?
21:03<edl>no need for uninstalling any xorg driver before installing prop driver
21:04<bremner>!tell jc0694 -about fglrx
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21:08<edl>haha i think it was nero that fucked up my bootable isos, dr-dos aparently is neros doing.
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21:24<jc0694>well that was a wreck... xwindows won't launch
21:24<jc0694>... guess i gotta reinstall the OS
21:25<jc0694>this is like fecking re-goddamn-diculuous that it is this complicated to load a driver
21:25<xero_>!tell xero- -about fglrx
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21:25<xero_>!tell xero_ -about fglrx
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21:26<keep>ooi pessoal
21:26<keep>pessoal ?????
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21:26<jc0694>!tell jc0694 -about fglrx
21:27<jc0694>wtf does that command do?
21:27<keep>ãn ?
21:27<keep>i no
21:27<keep>a iam bralileira
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21:30<bremner>!tell keep -about br
21:30<bremner>jc0694: it sends you a private msg from dpkg
21:31<bremner>!tell xero_ -about selftell
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22:19<linuxfreaker>Want to know what is difference between Debian Installer and release?
22:20<linuxfreaker>I can see that Debian 6.0 Installer Beta 1 announced
22:20<linuxfreaker>Is the actual Beta1 ?
22:21<linuxfreaker>or different from what we generally expect for RC,RC1,GA??
22:22<dondelelcaro>linuxfreaker: it's the beta1 of the installer
22:22<dondelelcaro>linuxfreaker: the installer is developed in an orthogonal process to the development of the packages which are in the release
22:23<linuxfreaker>Dondelelcaro, Does it mean it is not actual Beta release of Debian?
22:23<dondelelcaro>linuxfreaker: we don't do beta releases
22:23<dondelelcaro>(of debian)
22:24<linuxfreaker>I can see in the that Installer getting announced..
22:25<linuxfreaker>How is the releases done here?
22:26<linuxfreaker>Alpha 1 was announced in Feb and that too seems as an Installer
22:26<linuxfreaker>So what you recommend to tester to test the it installer?
22:27<linuxfreaker>Please need your help understanding the distro release and testing?
22:28<dondelelcaro>linuxfreaker: the installer releases just are for the installer. The next release of Debian is always available, and is called testing.
22:28<dondelelcaro>linuxfreaker: we don't do specific releases of it, because it changes multiple times a day
22:29<linuxfreaker> Can you help me with what latest release do we have for Debian 6.0 Alpha/Beta?
22:29<linuxfreaker>And All I want is to test the Debian squeeze..before it goes Final Release?
22:29<abrotman>there isn't a beta release for Debian 6.0
22:30<abrotman>you download the netinst, and install what you want .. it's not a "beta"
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22:32<linuxfreaker>One Doubt to ask: As I can see that generally most of distros follow Alpha, Beta, RC and GA tradition, what does Debian follow. If I want to test the Debian, is it that I need to wait for Final Release atleast 1 year until it gets announced and test it
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22:33<abrotman>you get the installer for squeeze and install it .. it's kind of "rolling" .. The only packages changing are really for bug fixes at this point until it is released
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22:36<Nameeater>I have a friend who is trying to setup a debian box as a gateway machine for all his windows pcs, for squid, QoS, file server etc, should it still work if all the pcs, gateway, and router are connected to the same switch by just pointing all the PCs at the gateway machine, then the gateway to the router?
22:37<dondelelcaro>Nameeater: you can make it work, yes... but it's much easier to have two interfaces
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22:38<qwd>Debian Squeeze. I installed tracker to be able to tag files and search for the tags. I'm not seeing any nautilus integration when it comes to searching, only tagging. I added Search Bar to my panel and I can search for the tag there, but I can't click it and see which files are tagged. Is this normal?
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22:38<linuxfreaker>Abortman: As you said you get the installer for squeeze, say Beta 1 is announced, if I install it .is it equivalent to Beta Release of Debian(since Debian never announces Beta?
22:38<dondelelcaro>linuxfreaker: no
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22:39<Nameeater>dondelelcaro: does anything special need to be done to make it work? so far ipmasq+ip_forward enabled isn't working, PC can reach the gateway machine, but not the internet, if I use a dnscache on the gateway it resolves the address, but still no more than that
22:39<qwd>I don't see any bug reported, and that does seem a bit weird. Buy hey, maybe I'm the first person to use this.
22:39<linuxfreaker>dondelelcaro: can you clear my doubt?
22:39<linuxfreaker>Any specific reason for "no"
22:39<dondelelcaro>linuxfreaker: it's not a beta release of Debian. We don't release betas of Debian, ever.
22:39<abrotman>he told you, Debian does not release a beta of the entire OS
22:40<dondelelcaro>linuxfreaker: you can call it whatever you want, but it'd be incorrect (and confusing to others) to do so
22:40<Nameeater>linuxfreaker: maybe you need to look into 'testing' and 'unstable' releases
22:40<abrotman>oh please don't confuse him more
22:41<abrotman>(it might be easier if the debian-installer team didn't call it a beta .. but oh well)
22:42<linuxfreaker>Guys, Please help me understanding the release process in one good line
22:42<linuxfreaker>anyone of you can go ahead?
22:42<Nameeater>dondelelcaro: not wanting to be a pain, but do you know anything about my follow up question?
22:43<qq->linuxfreaker, stop trolling , asking same here and on #d-boot wont help
22:43<Nameeater>linuxfreaker: if you're serious
22:43<linuxfreaker>I posted it there before I checked-in there..
22:43<qq-> 03:37<linuxfreaker> Is Installer somewhat equivalent to Debian pre-GA ?
22:44<dondelelcaro>Nameeater: normally you'd need to use VLANs to make sure that the cable modem isn't seeing packets that aren't destined for it
22:44<dondelelcaro>Nameeater: it's much, much easier to just use two interfaces
22:45<Nameeater>dondelelcaro: router <eth0> gateway <eth1> switch <-> PCs ?
22:45<dondelelcaro>Nameeater: yes. though presumably it's not a router, it's a bridge
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22:45<Nameeater>its an adsl router, but I think it can be put in bridge mode
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22:46<dondelelcaro>oh, they may call it a router, but it probably behaves like a bridge; not important though.
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22:47<linuxfreaker>qq: I read that link and found the flow goes as unstable>testing>stable
22:48<linuxfreaker>For a normal tester, who is keeping track of different Alpha,Beta,RC etc what do you recommend to test before it goes GA?
22:48<linuxfreaker>Will installer do the job?
22:49<qq->Beta1 works , so test it if you want , that's all
22:50<dpkg>TIAS is "Try It And See".
22:50<linuxfreaker>qq: Seems like I have irritated you guys..
22:50<linuxfreaker>Anyway, its my pleasure to talk to all expertise here
22:51<linuxfreaker>"Begineers are always difficult to make understand, but a little help would make his work fruitful"
22:51<linuxfreaker>thnx to all
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23:50<farixx>i love Windows
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---Logclosed Tue Nov 02 00:00:07 2010