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#debian IRC Logs for 2010-12-15

---Logopened Wed Dec 15 00:00:26 2010
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00:00<dragonfly>tweek, less stable or more secure and precise? Ubuntu seems to me a bit more lax on catching errors and by default lets users do a lot more stuff that an admin may not want them to do
00:00<tweek>i thought debian uses older kernels genereally
00:01<tweek>yeah debian would be more stable i have to say, as a server
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00:01<tweek>not a workstation
00:02<dragonfly>tweek, I do agree that Ubuntu is more "out of the box" as you put it -- but I'm not sure that translates to "better" -- I like it for a good way to introduce people to linux or get someone using Linux who may otherwise just stick with Windows -- for myself though I would much rather use Debian
00:02<dragonfly>tweek, what kernel does your Ubuntu workstation currently use?
00:06<tweek>dragonfly, why would you rather use debian?
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00:09<dragonfly>1. It's the original and not some derivative 2. I feel like it's a bit more flexible and I can do more with it (I always feel a bit trapped in Ubuntu) 3. It's what I started with
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00:10<Tiff>lol, ubuntu
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00:11<dragonfly>tweek, ok, I guess your Kernel is a bit newer I just installed Squeeze on here last night or the night before using mostly default settings and am running 2.6.32-5-686
00:11<TheSeparateOne>Honestly, kernel releases don't make much of a difference to a workstation user in most cases.
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00:12<dragonfly>TheSeparateOne, you're right there -- the biggest thing I've seen advance with newer kernel releases is better support for things like wireless cards on laptops (but then we aren't talking about "true" workstations)
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00:13<TheSeparateOne>The only time I've ever had my kernel effect me is the 2.6.32 kernel giving my graphics card issues.
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00:16<TheSeparateOne>Also, the 2.6.37 kernel makes me use the wrong 'effect.'
00:17<bones_was_here>2.6.37 will hopefully be a worthwhile upgrade from 2.6.31, 2.6.32 sucks though (locks up hard on some machines)
00:19<tweek>my ubuntu 10.10 has been up for months, where my debian server (squeeze) has had to be rebooted alot
00:20<tweek>all it runs is apache, samba and mysql
00:21<tweek>when i was running kernel 2.6.26 debian was the best
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02:58<burjo>so quite
02:58<burjo>anyone from indonesia
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03:07<gil-galad>indian ocean, but not indonesia, sorry :)
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03:52<s4br3>Hi, I am setting up my 1st ever Python project , but 'eric' cannot find the 'Python PySide' packages, only Qt4. I run Debian Sid and I think I have the correct file installed, 'python-pyside' . Thanks for any help!
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03:58<s4br3>I also tried installing libpyside-dev but it didn't help
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04:07<leocade>hey guys. i dunno what i did but i believe gnome settings manager is running on top of xfce settings manager. when i log out or log in ill see xfce wallpaper and the tip dialogue window but then it gets covered by a gnome-managed wallpaper. how do i disable gnoem settings manager?
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04:41<gpm>can someone explain this: ?
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04:42<gpm>the huge discrepancy between size-used vs. aval for the root partition?
04:42<gpm>that - is a minus sign, btw
04:43<jm_>gpm: by default 5% is reserved for root, so roughly 500M
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04:44<gpm>jm_: oh yeah the ext3 tax
04:44<gpm>the journal tax i should say
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04:50<cthuluh>not the journal, these 5% of reserved space are also the default with ext2
04:53<mjt>journal size is included in the "used" space
04:53<mjt>but the 5% isn't
04:54<mjt>also various internal structures
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04:56<mjt>anyway, don't let any filesystem to have >90% used space
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04:59<gpm>yeah i'm kinda hosed without resizing or just transferring to a bigger drive (the most likely choice at this point)
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05:10<gpm>thanks all. night
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05:15<classical>I have a high iostat issue
05:15<classical>i want to know what process is doing
05:15<classical>this to my hdd
05:15<classical>where can i find this out ?
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05:17<slush>I'd use atop, but there are several tools available for it
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06:14<faheem>on lenny, dpkg version 1.14.30, if i do "dpkg -l dpkg dpkg", first the dpkg version is listed, then it says "No packages found matching dpkg."
06:14<faheem>can anyone reproduce this on squeeze or sid?
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06:19<lancelot_of>hi all, no sound on my thinkpad T42, any suggestion?
06:22<petemc>!alsa checklist
06:22<dpkg>1) add yourself to the 'audio' group (log out and log in again) 2) use alsamixer and unmute channels and raise levels (also try muting some channels & toggle jack sense) 3) arts or esound stopped? 4) OSS modules unloaded? 5) speakers on? 6) modprobe snd-pcm-oss 7) does "aplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Noise.wav" work for root? Test your sound with aplay and a wav so codec issues don't confuse the situation. See also <list alsa users>.
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06:25<Dirty_Snipe>Im still having problems with bonding two nics on lenny. I got no network access to it atm and when i try and up the bond0 i get the following error (SIOCADDRT : No such process)
06:26<Dirty_Snipe>I have tried uninstall of ifenslave and reinstall to flush everything out but I cannot get the box back on the network
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06:31<Dirty_Snipe>i have just stumbled across this webpage would this also work with lenny?
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06:33<lancelot_of>ok solved fo audio, but in alsamixer only one side is enabled, switching with "m" from left to to enabl both speackers?
06:33<lancelot_of>without "c" :)
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06:33<jm_>lancelot_of: f1 gives you help for all commands
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06:36<lancelot_of>jm_, solved thanks
06:36<lancelot_of>bye all
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06:37<lancelot_of>oh,i missed....when i enable fullscreen in xine during file playing it starts to not responding to commands (quit, toggle fullscreen off etc)...any hint?
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06:54<Dirty_Snipe>can anyone help me with this bonding problem?
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06:55<amphi>lancelot_of: no idea - mplayer always behaves well for me, for what it's worth
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06:56<lancelot_of>amphi, thanks anyway for your answer
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07:22<OsirisX>without wireless extensions configured in your kernel is it possible to get wireless working?
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07:27<Dirty_Snipe>90% of people here afk?
07:28<Dirty_Snipe>im afk again heading back to try and fix this bonding problem on my own seen as im geting bugger all help in here!
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07:30<ompaul>Dirty_Snipe: or 95% don't know the answer
07:30<ompaul>Dirty_Snipe: test it and find out yourself.
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07:34<OsirisX>what does afk mean?
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07:34<cthuluh>Away From Keyboard, I guess
07:35<cthuluh>Dirty_Snipe: do you really want to configure it manually?
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07:38<ghosTM55>OsirisX: there is a utility called wtf to help you look up the meaning of such kind of words :)
07:40<jm_>or dict
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07:42<OsirisX>lmao @ ghosT
07:42<OsirisX>!wtf afk
07:42<dpkg>AFK: away from keyboard
07:42<OsirisX>!wtf wtf
07:42<dpkg>WTF: {what,where,who,why} the fuck
07:42<qq->OsirisX, stop it
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07:44<jm_>OsirisX: he meant you should use the /usr/games/wtf one, not here
07:45<OsirisX>ok jm_ thx
07:46<jm_> dict servers also have dictionaries for this
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08:20<classical>kjournald takes lots of i/o what can i do with this ?
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09:48<lancelot_of>audio is really horrible on my thinkpad t42, with many "buzzes" and background noises, how to setup?
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10:21<lancelot_of>no answers for me?
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10:22<fa_effekt>can someone help me?
10:24<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
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10:25<fa_effekt>can't access data inside a file
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10:26<fa_effekt>it says that it cannot be accessed because
10:26<fa_effekt>the owner is different from the user accessing it
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10:27<fa_effekt>tried doing sudo chown -Rv x11 /name/of/file/
10:27<fa_effekt>but it responds with "Operation not permitted"
10:27<fa_effekt>x11 is the name of the user
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10:28<petemc>fa_effekt: what is the exact command you're running
10:28<fa_effekt>sudo chown -Rv username /name/of/file/
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10:29<fa_effekt>the output is "failed to change ownership of /name/of/file
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10:30<fa_effekt>"output not permitted"
10:30<petemc>i wouldnt call that exact, but is the file on a vfat partition?
10:31<petemc>why do you want to recursively chown one file?
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10:31<fa_effekt>this file was originally protected against accidental deletion
10:31<fa_effekt>now the files need to be accessed
10:32<petemc>lsattr file
10:32<petemc>lsattr is a command
10:32<petemc>also, whats the output of ls -la file
10:33<fa_effekt>drwxrwxrwx 8 x11 admin 4096 2010-12-11 20:59 ..
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10:34<petemc>and that doesnt look ok to you?
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10:35<fa_effekt>can't access the data so no
10:35<petemc>when you try to access the data, what exact command do you run?
10:36<fa_effekt>just cd /name/of/folder
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10:37<lancelot_of>audio is really horrible on my thinkpad t42, with many "buzzes" and background noises, how to setup?
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10:38<fa_effekt>is the microphone enabled?
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10:54<fa_effekt>anyone here?
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10:55<AMD1212>435 persons - bots, yes (-;
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10:55<petemc>fa_effekt: are you trying to run a file, or cd into a directory?
10:57<fa_effekt>after doing lsattr on that file there is an i in it
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10:57<fa_effekt>was wondering how to change it
10:57<petemc>chattr -i
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11:00<fa_effekt>there is also a capitol I and still can't view the contents in the folder
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11:00<cyrillic>Hi, what is the recommended stackable filesystem? I'm using aufs2, but it seems to be dropped from the experimental kernels, altough aufs-tools is still there..
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11:02<Danimazu>¿Alguien contesta?
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11:12<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
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11:28<mercutio22>I am trying to get myself a live debian usb key. I found this:
11:28<mercutio22>I tried moving the binary file with the dd command but that was not sufficient. What am I missing?
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11:38<buffoon_work>mercutio22, how did you put the of= part? (If you mount your stick with /dev/sdc1 it should NOT be of=/dev/sda1, it should be /dev/sda)
11:39<buffoon_work>well, replace the 1st /dev/sdc1 with /dev/sda1... sorry
11:39<mercutio22>buffoon_work: I did 'of=/dev/sdd'
11:40<mercutio22>the binary is only 7mB. I wish to have a system with gnome and everything else...
11:40<mercutio22>I think I am missing something
11:40<buffoon_work>hmm, you're missing something yes...
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11:41<buffoon_work>I've built a live cd with xfce4 and some other (quiet small) tools and it is 389MiB
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11:42<buffoon_work>did you create it yourself or did you download one of the pre-built images?
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11:43<mercutio22>buffoon_work: I downloaded one of the prebuilt images.
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11:47<buffoon_work>mercutio22, well, the .torrent file is the wrong one. you can just put that one in a bittorrent client and download the whole iso from there.
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11:48<Dirty_Snipe>what is the best way to flush out anything related to bonding nics in the latest lenny
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11:48<mercutio22>buffoon_work: Yeah, I did it.. forgot to mention
11:48<buffoon_work>and I'm not sure too if the .iso file will work because that is normally for cdrom or dvd but as it says iso-hybrid maybe it works for usb-sticks too?
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11:49<buffoon_work>ah, and the resulting file still is just 7mb?
11:49<Dirty_Snipe>i must have conflicts somewhere cus i have entered exactly what everyone says in the wiki and so on and Im still having problems.
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11:50<Dirty_Snipe>also when I reboot the server after getting it up and running I get an error message flash up on boot about failing to setup bond0
11:50<chomwitt>where should i run /usr/bin/script to record the installation session ? in a vt in the first installation step?
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11:51<mercutio22>buffoon_work: well, I now see there's 1.1Gb debian-squeeze-live-beta1-i386-gnome-desktop.iso
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11:52<mercutio22>buffoon_work: what I had was debian-squeeze-live-beta1-i386-gnome-desktop.initrd.img-2.6.32-5-686 29-Oct-2010 14:30 7.4M
11:52<buffoon_work>mercutio22, yes, that sounds more like a complete file to me...
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11:53<mercutio22>buffoon_work: so I don't need the initrd file you think?
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11:53<buffoon_work>mercutio22, <-- maybe you want to catch a .img file from there because that are the ones made for usb sticks
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11:53<buffoon_work>mercutio22, the initrd file should be part of the image
11:54<mercutio22>buffoon_work: yeah, but look at the file sizes there
11:54<mercutio22>buffoon_work: it seems not to contain the whole thing
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11:55<buffoon_work>oh, your right...
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11:56<buffoon_work>actually, there isn't a real .img file... just small pieces of it (like the kernel, initrd image and so on)... strange
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11:57<mercutio22>buffoon_work: yeah.. I am confused too
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12:03<mercutio22>buffoon_work: here.. I found a live system for eeePCs, just what I wanted:
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12:22<chocolat888>Hi all o/
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12:51<chocolat888>I would like to invert the color of my battery led on debian, how can i do? I've search in /sys/class/ but i've found nothing...
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12:54<retrospectacus>chocolat888, what laptop is it?
12:55<chocolat888>retrospectacus: an asus eepc s101, in charge the led is green and when battery is full the led is orange
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13:03<yazzer>im getting a weird error when i try to automount a flash drive
13:03<yazzer>Error mounting: mount exited with exit code 1: helper failed with:
13:03<yazzer>mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sdb1,
13:03<yazzer> missing codepage or helper program, or other error
13:03<yazzer>it works when i specify a mount point
13:04<yazzer>but otherwise it appears to treat it as a cdrom rather than a flash drive
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13:05<yazzer>anyone have any ideas how to get automount working?
13:05<retrospectacus>yazzer, check /etc/fstab - is /dev/sdb1 in there?
13:06<yazzer>/dev/sdb1 /media/cdrom0 udf,iso9660 user,noauto 0 0
13:07<retrospectacus>there ya go
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13:08<yazzer>ahh, alright
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13:11<jhutchins_lt>chocolat888: That's probably controlled by the hardware, not the OS.
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13:12<jhutchins_lt>chocolat888: Lots of eeepc info on the web, including debian web pages for it.
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13:12<chocolat888>I've already search on the web, found nothing ... :/
13:13<retrospectacus>checked in the BIOS?
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13:13<chocolat888>Yes, nothing in the BIOS setup options ...
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13:14<chocolat888>maybe i need an upgrade... i will take a look at this
13:14<retrospectacus>what makes you think it is possible? Could you do that with the pre-installed OS?
13:15<jhutchins_lt>chocolat888: What makes you think it's even possible?
13:16<chocolat888>'cause the led is inverted whith the M$ OS, if i've a good memory ...
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13:19<ballison>i have a debian hardware support question. is there a place i can go look up a model of a machine and see if debian supports it?
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13:20<chocolat888>Thanks retrospectacus and jhutchins_lt, i'll check bios upgrade, and if i found nothing, i'll just forget this detail.
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13:21<retrospectacus>ballison, there is the debian wiki, or google, or you can ask here. Unsupported hardware is hard to come by
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13:22<ubuntu_>chinguen a su madre pendejos
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13:28<ballison>retrospectacus: Here's what I'm looking at. THe PEnguin Computing Relion 4724 Server with 24 3.5" 2TB drives. Is that supported by debian?
13:28<ballison>retrospectacus: uses the Adaptec RAID 5805 controller.
13:28<ballison>need to know if that's supported by debian.
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13:30<jhutchins_lt>ballison: The only way that information is available is if someone who owns that hardware has filed a report somewhere on the 'net that says it works.
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13:30<jhutchins_lt>ballison: It's not like manufacturers send people on the debian project hardware to be tested.
13:31<jhutchins_lt>ballison: However, Penguin does install Linux on their systems (I forget which ones they support), so it's a safe bet that linux works on them.
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13:31<jhutchins_lt>ballison: The question is really whether Penguin supports Debian on that hardware, and there's no reason not to ask Penguin before you buy.
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13:35<retrospectacus>ballison, yeah, most likely fine.
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13:38<cristi>what should be in sources.list to install networkmanager 0.8.1?
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13:39<retrospectacus>,versions network-manager
13:39<judd>Package network-manager on i386 -- etch: 0.6.4-6+etch1; etch-security: 0.6.4-6+etch1; lenny: 0.6.6-3; lenny-backports: 0.7.3-1~bpo50+1; squeeze: 0.8.1-5; sid: 0.8.1-6
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13:48<ballison>jhutchins: I did ask Penguin Computing. They said they only support RedHat/CentOS on their hardware. But I see no reason why I can't just run Debian on it. I'm working at a debian shop now. everything here is debian. Althouh personally I use debian/centos equally.
13:49<yang>ballison: hehe, debian shop ? url ?
13:50<retrospectacus>it's really just the kernel that has to support the hardware, the OS on top is not too relevant I don't think (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). You could ask if they need to use a custom kernel.
13:51<ballison>retrospectacus: somewhat true.. unless they have configuration software that runs ontop of the OS and is OS dependant (which I have seen before with Dell)
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14:09<jhutchins_lt>retrospectacus: The RH/Centos kernels are patched much differently from the Debian kernels. RedHat has access to more proprietary binary drivers.
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14:18<yazzer>im still trying to figure this out, when i plug in a flash drive it automounts to /media/usb0 then when i umount it and remount it without specifying a mount point it mounts to /media/<name of disk> why?
14:19<yazzer>ive commented out the line in fstab
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14:20<cahoot>yazzer: fusermount involved in the first but not second instance?
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14:20<cahoot>(just guessing)
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14:23<yazzer>hmm... any way i could verify that?
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14:30<kashis>hello everyone. is possible to change the worksspaces windos size?
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14:32<cahoot>you mean the graphical representation of the workspaces?
14:33<kashis>cahoot, Imean the little workspace windows on the lower panel
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14:34<cahoot>you can modify some aspects of the panel and the number of 'workspaces' - try right-click
14:34<yazzer>right click on it, preferences
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14:36<kashis>cahoot, yes , Ikonw that, but on the preferences menu, there are nothing about resize the window
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14:38<rpetre>the pager size is proportional to the desktop size and the panel height, afaik
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14:39<rpetre>i.e. workspaces have the same aspect ratio as the real desktop
14:39<kashis>rpetre, thats it, but the little windows on my desktop, appeared too disproportional in rectangular shape
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14:40<rpetre>i don't think it's configurable (maybe there could be a secret gconf option)
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14:43<kashis>rpetre, is very weird, because in other desktops, I remember must saw it on square shape, not rectangular
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14:44<cahoot>kashis: only one display?
14:44<rpetre>found the gconf tree ( /apps/panel/applets/applet_2/prefs , where applet_2 is whichever on has a bonobo-iid containing "WorkspaceSwitcher" in it), no aspect ratio key
14:45<rpetre>kashis: if you have 2 monitors (or a wide screen), the workspaces are wide
14:45<yazzer>are you thinking about showing the workspaces in a 2x2 array rather than a 1x4 array?
14:46<kashis>rpetre, ok my monitor is a conventional lcd monitor, not a widescreen
14:46<rpetre>no secondary display?
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14:49<rpetre>argh, i added a pager to my panel to test it and it changed my workspace layout to 4x1 instead of 1x4 (since i put it on my vertical panel)
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14:49<kashis>yazzer, even on a 2x2. 1x4, or only one workspace, the shape are still the same
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14:50<kashis>rpetre, that's good one, I'm goin to test on a vertical pannel
14:50<rpetre>kashis: are you sure it's not a trick of the eye since the size is so different? :) do a screnshot and measure the size
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14:52<rpetre>:( i can't find how i can configure my workspace layout except from the pager
14:52<kashis>rpetre, jajaja!! yes, ok, I'm old, but I still able to recongnize desproportions :-))
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14:55<kashis>rpetre, ok on a vertical panel, I got the same situation
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14:57<rpetre>kashis: and you don't have a work space larger than the monitor? X can be set to have your monitor "scroll" on the larger workspace below
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14:58<kashis>rpetre, so, could be a issue related to compiz, or metacity?
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14:59<rpetre>kashis: don't know, maybe compiz does some funky business with the workspace
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15:00<amphi>compiz doesn't have workspaces in the conventional sense
15:00<rpetre>i;m thinking like putting all "cube faces" in a single display to make transformations on it
15:00<rpetre>haven't used it much
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15:01<amphi>in compiz, you can configure viewports with ccsm
15:03<kashis>anyway, is not too important, I was only being curious, cause is the first time that I see this on a gnome desktop
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15:10<yazzer>if anyone is interested, i finally figured out what was going on. a package 'usbmount' was overriding the default nautilus automount settings causing usb flashdrives to mount at the wrong mount point
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15:21<jhutchins_lt>yazzer: Makes sense.
15:21<jhutchins_lt>yazzer: There should be some sort of cross-check
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15:50<jez>I have 2 packages installed on my Debian; postgresql, and postgresql-8.4. I'm guessing one is a dupe, which one do I probably want to keep and which do I probably want to remove?
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15:52<cthuluh>jez: LC_ALL=C aptitude show postgresql postgresql-8.4 | awk /Size/
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15:53<jez>cthuluh: uh, what?
15:53<jordanm>cthuluh: its a cross-post
15:53<jez>care to be a bit more verbose?
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15:54<jordanm>(which was answered already)
15:54<cthuluh>jez: care to be less verbose? ;)
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16:19<bighornram>I get this when trying to do full-upgrade in lenny i386 install. Do I accept this solution?
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16:29<retrospectacus>bighornram: that's fine
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16:34<bighornram>retrospectacus: does libdns58 replace libdns55?
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16:37<retrospectacus>looks like it :)
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16:40<mercutio22>Hi if I choose the recovery mode option in grub I cant use any commands like ls, less etc is this normal? I am on Debian Squeeze
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16:41<mercutio22>if write anything the prompt takes me down a line and prints the first character of the command
16:42<mercutio22>i.e. ls would give me a newline with an 'l' on it
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16:43<mase>mercutio22 does not seem normal to me. i can't explain that behaviour to me...
16:44<mercutio22>Damn.. that sux. I am stranded
16:44<bighornram>retrospectacus: thanks
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16:45<retrospectacus>mercutio22: how about the command "grub"?
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16:47<mase>mercutio22 but the login prompt was correct?
16:47<mercutio22>retrospectacus: that as well
16:47<mercutio22>mase: yep
16:48<retrospectacus>mercutio22: it just prints a line with "g" and returns the shell prompt??
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16:49<mase>mercutio22 CTRL-C?
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16:50<mercutio22>wait.. I can get to single-user mode after booting normally by issuing telinit 1]
16:50<mercutio22>and that works
16:50<mercutio22>I have access to commands
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16:51<mase>whats "telinit 1]"?
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16:52<devil>init 1
16:52<devil>old version
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16:52<mase>ah, ok
16:53<mase>instead of "S" kernel parameter?
16:53<devil>init 1 is single-user, yes
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17:37<mitnick>hello guys i am new on linux , anyone can tell me wich version of debian use for i7 ? thx
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17:40<nevyn>mitnick: x86_64
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17:40<nevyn>mitnick: which is to say amd64
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17:41<nevyn>or i386 if you have less than 4gig of memory and want to maximise compatibility with proprietary linux software
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17:43<mitnick>i have a asus g51j notebook with i7 intel
17:44<mitnick>the ia-64 version is correct?
17:44<amphi>that's for itanium
17:44<retrospectacus>you want amd64
17:44<retrospectacus>for 64bit
17:44<retrospectacus>exactly :)
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17:45<mitnick>pls see this link men
17:45<mitnick>30 cds lol
17:46<amphi>mitnick: how much ram is in your machine?
17:46<mitnick>is a monster
17:46<mitnick>i need a os monster
17:46<mitnick>i dont like windows
17:46<amphi>just use the netinstall iso
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17:46<retrospectacus>you only need the first cd
17:46<retrospectacus>or the netinstall, even better
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17:47<retrospectacus>well, even smaller download
17:47<amphi>you may need to use ethernet rather than wireless for the install
17:47<mitnick> debian-507-amd64-netinst.iso this?
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17:47<mitnick>guys is to hard debian for one amateur?
17:47<amphi>if it's a very recent model, you might be better off with squeeze or kmuto
17:48<mitnick>i have a little good experience on ubuntu
17:48<mitnick>but not debian
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17:48<amphi>mitnick: no, not if you can (and are prepared to) read
17:48<mitnick>i wanna learn
17:48<amphi>you can install the debian reference
17:48<dpkg>The Debian Installation Guide for Lenny (5.0.7) can be found at . See also <errata> and <installer firmware>.
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17:49<amphi>mitnick: ^^ have you looked at that?
17:49<mitnick>i read the the last debian 5.0.7 have a graphical install
17:49<mitnick>for noobs like me
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17:49<amphi>apparently ;)
17:51<mitnick>you test ubuntu?
17:51<mitnick>ubuntu is for ladies?
17:51<mitnick>debian is for pro like us?
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17:52<amphi>BTW, the text mode installer is quite simple to use, if the GUI installer has any problem with your hw
17:52<mitnick>if i have 6gigas of ram the swap size how much is?
17:53<amphi>12GB ;)
17:53<amphi>I joke
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17:53<mitnick>hwo much?
17:53<amphi>you will want to have 6 or so if you want to be able to suspend-to-disk (hibernate)
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17:54<mitnick>i think
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17:55<mitnick>nvidia drivers run well on debian?
17:55<amphi>I use uswsusp here for s-t-d, and it can usually compress memory contents somewhat, but I think swap equal to ram is good for the worst case
17:56<amphi>well, there are worse cases
17:56<mitnick>i have the gts 360m
17:56<amphi>I know nothing of nvidia
17:56<dpkg>To use an NVIDIA graphics card with Debian, see . If you've done it before, asking me about <nvidia pre-built> or <nvidia m-a> might work. Installing directly from (i.e. with <nvidia-installer>) is _not_ supported in #debian, please go to #nvidia (
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17:58<negro-jei>mitnick: is good idea upgrade to squeeze after of lenny, for compatibility of driver
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17:58<amphi>in that case it would be easier to install squeeze from the outset
17:59<amphi>mitnick: the testing branch of debian, to be the new stable release RSN
17:59<negro-jei>debian testing = debian squeeze
17:59<mitnick>is good idea download directly squeeze than lenny?
17:59<amphi>mitnick: this is a recent model laptop?
18:00<mitnick>(sorry for my english)
18:00<mitnick>is the last of asus
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18:00<amphi>then the kernel in squeeze is more likely to support your hardware
18:00<amphi>or there's kmuto
18:00<dpkg>For Debian Lenny installers with up-to-date kernels, see . The <bnx2> and <bnx2x> firmware files for Linux 2.6.32 are included in 0116 images.
18:02<amphi>mitnick: kmuto will give you the stable release of debian (lenny) with a recent kernel more likely to support all your hardware
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18:03<amphi>mitnick: squeeze is not far from release, so with any luck nothing major will break
18:03<amphi>if I were you, I would probably install squeeze
18:03<mitnick>sowhat i download lenny squeeze or kmuto?
18:04<amphi>I suspect the lenny kernel will not support all your hardware
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18:05<mitnick>kmuto or squeeze?
18:05<amphi>as I said, I would (and indeed do) go with squeeze
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18:05<amphi>it's working well here
18:05<negro-jei>I think, first install lenny, after upgrade to squeeze
18:05<mitnick>thx my friend
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18:06<amphi>you're welcome
18:06<mitnick>can install squeeze directly?
18:06<mitnick>or i need lenny and upgrade squeeze?
18:06<amphi>yes, there are netinstall iso images
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18:07<amphi>note that your wireless hw may not be supported by the installer, and you may need to do the install over ethernet
18:07<mitnick>i have a cable
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18:09<amphi>mitnick: rejoice!
18:09<mitnick>ok guys i will download debian-507-amd64-netinst.iso and install xchat for come back here and you say me how upgrade to squeeze :P
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18:09<amphi>mitnick: if you want squeeze, it's simpler to install it straight away
18:09<amphi>no need to install lenny first
18:10<structuretheory>so I managed to botch my debian system by attempting to install gnome on top of what was previously a bare-bones debian shell install... I did this after having changed my sources.list to what I *thought* was a list of stable ubuntu the system no longer wants to boot
18:10<mitnick>this is what i tryed to ask , what is better install lenny on mi notebook and upgrado to squeeze or install directly squeeze without lenny first
18:10<amphi>mitnick: try and see how you get on
18:10<structuretheory>so I figure, hell, I might as well just reinstall the OS on top of the current partitions so I don't lose data
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18:11<structuretheory>but I can't figure out how to do this without repartitioning
18:11<amphi>ubuntu you say??
18:11<structuretheory>the installer seems to constantly want to repartition
18:11<structuretheory>I want to reinstall debian
18:12<prahal_>how should I proceed if I want to rebuild a debian package against a make installed library ? ie libgee 0.7
18:12<mitnick>this can be installed for usb?
18:12<prahal_>in that I miss the symbols file for this one as it does not come from a debian package
18:12<structuretheory>so my question is this: anyone know how to install debian onto existing partitions?
18:12<amphi>mitnick: yes, but creating the usb setup is more complex than just burning an iso image
18:13<mitnick>see ya later
18:13<mitnick>and thx for all guys
18:14<amphi>good luck
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18:16<prahal_>structuretheory, it is doable . Though you will not get a clean install . No better than fix your current install
18:16<structuretheory>well that would be easier if I knew what broke
18:17<structuretheory>gnome was installing so much crap
18:17<prahal_>remove the ubuntu repos from your sources
18:17<structuretheory>can do
18:17<prahal_>as a first step
18:18<structuretheory>well it was *all* ubuntu sources... so I need to find a copy of the current debian sources as well
18:18<structuretheory><-- didn't bother backing em up
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18:25<jhutchins_lt>structuretheory: Did I miss why you're not just doing a clean install?
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18:26<structuretheory>mainly 'cause I'm too lazy to back up my data and reinstall certain things
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18:28<structuretheory>long story short: my laptop's in the shop at the moment for repair, so I'm attempting to install gnome on my file server so I can use it for the time being
18:28<structuretheory>it's the file server I messed up
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18:29<dpkg>The list of repositories for installing packages is /etc/apt/sources.list and has lines like "deb lenny main" and "deb lenny/updates main" where CC is your country code. Be sure to run "aptitude update" after editing sources.list. Also see <mirrors> <apt-spy> <lenny security> <testing security> "man sources.list" and /usr/share/doc/apt/examples/sources.list
18:29<structuretheory>and considering how much data I have on it, it would be a bitch to have to burn everything to DVD, and copy it back afterwards
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18:29<structuretheory>I know where sources.list is contained on my system.... after all, I did fuck it over in the first place :p
18:30<structuretheory>does the examples file contain the defaults by chance?
18:30<structuretheory>that would be handy
18:33<structuretheory>blah .... I'm such a noob
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18:39<jhutchins_lt>structuretheory: Right there in the line from dpkg. Add contrib and non-free if you like that sort of thing.
18:39<jhutchins_lt>structuretheory: There is also <dmm>,<bdo>and <volitile>
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18:40<structuretheory>merci prahal, mais je ne comprenez pas le francais
18:40<prahal_>there are examples to shows you how to find out what comes from where (ie origin)
18:40<prahal_>oh sorry
18:41<structuretheory>I took some french in highschool, but I don't know much anymore
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18:44<prahal_>sorry I did not paid attention to the language of the material :/ . aptitude search '~S ~i ~O"YYYYYYYY"' where YYYYY is what you see in apt-cache policy after "o=" on the ubuntu line
18:44<prahal_>it is pretty hard to find material about those ~ options of aptitude and cie it seems .
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18:48<retrospectacus>I know... they seem useful but I have no idea how to use them so I use apt-get instead :)
18:50<prahal_>retrospectacus, how do you do that with apt-get ?
18:50<retrospectacus>oh I don't.. sorry I just meant I do not use aptitude at all
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18:51<prahal_>was just curious . I have a hard time reminding those aptitude tweaks so if there was another option :)
18:51<prahal_>I would probably buy into it
18:54<retrospectacus>here's some infos
18:54<dpkg>To list uninstalled recommended packages: aptitude search '~RBrecommends:~i!~i'; upgradeable packages: aptitude search '~U'; manually installed packages: aptitude search '~i!~M'; See also <obsolete> <not available> <bdo list> <dmm list> <which repo> <aptitude clone> <sort by size> <aptitude why> <aptitude search>, or <aptitude ops>
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18:55<prahal_>list uninstalled recommended packages . neat . It will be of use right now
18:55<retrospectacus>it appears to be explained in the aptitude man page as well
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19:00<prahal_>what is the best course of action to mix locally installed libraries with locally rebuild packages ?
19:01<prahal_>ie I have version of libs not yet available in debian (as I do upstream hacks) . Though as soon as I need to build a debian package it fails due to missing dependencies symbols for those
19:01<prahal_>and I would like to avoid rebulding the full stack :/
19:02<retrospectacus>you should install the newer libs with dpkg so the system knows they are there
19:02<prahal_>how could I do that ?
19:03<prahal_>via checkinstall ?
19:03<retrospectacus>i.e. when you are doing an upstream hack, apt-get -t experimental source libwhatever - then hack it, recompile into a .deb and install that with dpkg
19:03<prahal_>it is not even as source in debian experimental :(
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19:05<prahal_>currently my issue is that my glib is too new for he previous empathy in debian . And the new one in debian experimental requires libfolks19 which is probably waiting in a queue
19:06<prahal_>I took libfolks19 sources from alioth and hacked them to compile against my libgee (vala) which is too new for this libfolks . But now I am missing the symbols for libgee
19:06<prahal_>glib is master upstream
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19:07<prahal_>I wonder if checkinstall can generate symbols file on its own . If so it will be as easy as to reinstall libgee via dpkg
19:07<retrospectacus>I'm not sure man.. this is why debian has tiered releases
19:10<retrospectacus>I think other people here may be able to help you more.. they are just being quiet.. I think they're scared
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19:13<amphi>prahal_: if you install them under /usr/local/, and don't have /usr/local/lib in /etc/, old things should work
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19:14<amphi>prahal_: when you want to run something built against your new libs in /usr/local/lib you can specify LD_LIBRARY_PATH to include them on the command line
19:14<amphi>perhaps ;)
19:14<amphi>prahal_: or do I misunderstand your problem?
19:14<prahal_>ok so I use /usr/local/lib for programs that always run (ie I use my dogfood)
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19:16<prahal_>so either I stop testing the stuff or I need to build those symbols files it seems
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19:20<prahal_>it includes most of Xorg , 3D stack, and gnome3 :/ including LD_LIBRARY_PATH via wrappers or by patching the launchers would be overkill
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19:35<structuretheory>k I think I figured it out
19:35<structuretheory>using debootstrap now
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19:38<jordanm>structuretheory: /usr/share/doc/apt/examples/sources.list
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19:39<theodore>hello hello
19:40<streuner_>theodore: hi
19:40<theodore>guys i have 2 kernels, the one is the standard and the other is the one with openvp support, should i "uninstall" the later?
19:40<streuner_>there is a openvp kernel in Debian, IIRC
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19:41<theodore>what's the point of openvp?
19:41<edy>why is so complicated install skype on squeeze?
19:41<streuner_>its not supported in Debian
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19:41<streuner_>dpkg, skype
19:41<dpkg>[skype] a proprietary cross-platform VoIP program which Debian cannot distribute due to its restrictive license. Packages are available from or use the sources.list line "deb stable non-free". Not supported in #debian, consider using <ekiga>, <linphone> or <pidgin> instead.
19:42<streuner_>packages which arent in Debian are always not easy to intall/integrate into Debian...
19:43<theodore>skype runs well in my pc...
19:43<streuner_>but its not supported...
19:43<theodore>after installing it from the repo
19:43<theodore>well.. ok
19:44<streuner_>if such things work, you are just lucky
19:44<theodore>no man, i had the WICKED help of the debian community right here
19:45<streuner_>even more luck :-)
19:46<theodore>it's true man, i had a problem with my webcam, now it work in camorama and skype, but not in cheese
19:47<streuner_>there is almost no alternatives in Linux (skype)
19:47-!-pavi [~pavi@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:47<streuner_>yep, if its working :-P
19:47<retrospectacus>too bad... cheese is a truly amazing useful program -,-
19:47<theodore>camorama is better for my opinion...
19:48<theodore>maybe it's because it works :-)
19:48<prahal_>though this is a good test tool
19:48<prahal_>for v4l2
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19:50<theodore>anyways, i don't think i will have a problem after "uninstalling" the openvp kernel since all works well in default (kernel) right?
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19:51<theodore>yet, what is penvs all about?
19:51<streuner_>theodore: nobody stops you to use different kernels...
19:51<retrospectacus>do you mean openvz ?
19:51-!-hggdh_ [] has joined #debian
19:51<streuner_>just let them installed...
19:53<streuner_>you can always remove it, if they arent work...
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19:53<theodore>also, can i install googleearth? i have an old geforce3 ti200
19:53<retrospectacus>openvz is a virtualization platform - you need the openvz kernel to use it
19:53<streuner_>googleearth need needs plenty of resources...
19:53<retrospectacus>theodore, you can but it may not run so well
19:54<theodore>can i give it a shot?
19:54<streuner_>forget it
19:54<retrospectacus>I wouldn't bother - it barely runs on my geforce 7400
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19:56<theodore>though googleearth was fine in ubuntu...
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19:57<theodore>how come...?
19:57<streuner_>sure, *bunt* created the wheel new, we know :-)
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19:58<theodore>is there a repo for google apps?
19:58<streuner_>googleearth is in Debian, IIRC
19:58<dpkg>Google Earth is a proprietary geographic information program, which cannot be distributed by any third party. To build a Debian package of Google Earth: ask me about <contrib>, install the googleearth-package package and read /usr/share/doc/googleearth-package/README.Debian. googleearth-package is currently not available for Squeeze due to Debian bug #605959, see also #606222.
19:59<retrospectacus>yeah you apt-get install googleearth-package
19:59<retrospectacus>and then as user you do some command that actually downloads and sets up the program
20:00<streuner_>theodore: i doubt it runs better or worser than in *bunt*...
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20:03<theodore>the googleearth-package is installed but how can i run googleearth?
20:04<retrospectacus>first you need to install google earth
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20:04<retrospectacus>you do it by a command I forget, possible "make-googleearth" or something
20:04<theodore>the .bin file?
20:05<retrospectacus>it's just a command, it will download the program from google and install it
20:05<retrospectacus>run this: dpkg -L googleearth-package
20:05<retrospectacus>this will tell you what that googleearth-package actually installed
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20:06<retrospectacus>just a few files, one of them is /usr/bin/make_googleearth or something
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20:06<retrospectacus>run that to actually get the program
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20:08<theodore>i get this:
20:08<retrospectacus>there it is. run in terminal: make-googleearth-package
20:09<theodore>thank u! downloading.....
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20:12<theodore>ooops: Google Earth for GNU/Linux
20:12<theodore>Unrecognized Google Earth version (use --force to build anyway)
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20:15<theodore>i guess debian doesn't support it
20:15<retrospectacus>that's new. Try it again with --force?
20:15<retrospectacus>it means google has released the new version that the debian thingy does not recognize
20:15<theodore>what's the command exactly?
20:16<retrospectacus>might justs work anyways. make-googleearth-package --force
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20:16<prahal_>ok I sorted it out . I changed the debian/ from libgee 0.6 for my local libgee 0.7 with install path to /usr/local :)
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20:22<prahal_>and I have the added bonus that when debian reach this version of the libs it will clean up the local one automagically .lovin it
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20:26<theodore>well... after a number of errors i get "success", but there is no shortcut...
20:28<theodore>i 'll try again
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20:36<theodore>no luck, i get all this:
20:39<amphi>google seems to do much useless linking ;)
20:39<k-man>with cron jobs, is there some way i can get cron to email me the entire output if the job finishes with a non 0 result, but email nothing if it finishes with a 0 result?
20:39<k-man>oh. if/of i'm getting myself confused
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20:40<theodore>good nite forum
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20:59<theodore>no sleep... here i am with another prob. how can i setup CUPS-PDF to actually work?
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21:06<theodore>forget it, solved it
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21:17<dpkg>VATTENE VIA!
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21:36<TCW>Probing devices to guess BIOS drives. This may take a long time. <- how do I tell grub (entered in a root shell) to ignore a specific harddrive? There is one disk broken (raid1, already hotadded two new drives, array is in sync again) and this message hangs forever...
21:38<TCW>Otherwise I would have to shtdown the box, remove the drive, and reboot with a different medium (CD or usbstick...) and fix grub from there... and that would be annoying as hell!
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22:36<kd123>does anyone know when squeeze will be out of beta and released?
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22:44<dpkg>Squeeze is now frozen and will release <WIR>, <SIYH>, perhaps by Christmas 2010 if you help ... See and . See also <guess the release date>.
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22:46<edbian>Is there a name for an application that creates and send network packets manually?
22:46<kd123>ah thanks amphi :)
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22:47<xayon>edbian: like scapy ?
22:47<edbian>xayon, idk?
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22:48<edbian>aptitude show scapy: not a real package
22:48<edbian>How do I install it / look at it?
22:48<xayon>edbian: python-scapy
22:48<xayon>edbian: apt-cache search python-scapy would have helped you ¬¬
22:48<xayon>edbian: I mean, apt-cache search scapy
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22:49<edbian>xayon, I used aptitude search. It also found that package. Thanks though
22:50<edbian>xayon, That's exactly what I'm looking for btw
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22:51<HABL0>un français ?
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22:52<xayon>edbian: =) nice
22:52<xayon>Is there a fr command?
22:52<dpkg>Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debian-fr sur Francophone users: for help in french, please go to #debian-fr on
22:53<edbian>xayon, This is just a python module! This is awesome. I love python!
22:53<xayon>Oh, he left
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22:53<xayon>edbian: yeah, that's why it's called "python-scapy" ;)
22:53<edbian>xayon, :)
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22:54<twb>I'm trying to work out 1) if LVM LVs *always* have a major of 254; and 2) what *else* can have a major of 254.
22:55<twb>Where should I be looking to find this out? The Documentation/device-mapper tree in the Linux source isn't helping.
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22:58<twb>Er, s/254/251/
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---Logclosed Thu Dec 16 00:00:28 2010