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#debian IRC Logs for 2011-01-14

---Logopened Fri Jan 14 00:00:10 2011
---Daychanged Fri Jan 14 2011
00:00<James0>might want to start by updating /etc/ld.so.conf and running ldconfig...
00:00<Dark0n3>The problem is the old system im running don't have a ld.so.conf
00:01<Dark0n3>it does not even have a ldconfig :)
00:01<James0>what is the host operating system, and what operating system are the files on the nfs share from?
00:02<Dark0n3>The host is a debian running in vmware for now, the files are from a arm platform shared over the nfs
00:02<James0>compiled for arm won't run on x86...
00:02<Dark0n3>I know
00:02<Dark0n3>The machine the nfs i shared to is a Strongarm platform
00:03-!-aBiNg [~cn.fyodor@218.94.136.168] has joined #debian
00:03<James0>gotcha. vmware is just serving them up to the strongarm
00:04<Dark0n3>Yep :)
00:04<Dark0n3>And the Strongarm have very limited space, so no chance just to install the programs directly on that.
00:04<James0>makes sense.
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00:05<James0>the binaries on nfs, these are from a debian release?
00:05<Dark0n3>Yep, and old one.
00:05<James0>which one? cat /etc/debian_version
00:06<Dark0n3>Etch i think it was
00:06<Dark0n3>Nah 4.0
00:06<James0>Etch = 4.0, eh not so old. and what release of debian is on the strongarm?
00:07<Dark0n3>I have no idea, its something custom running from a ramdisk file
00:07<Dark0n3>Its running kernel 2.4.19 so its a bit old :)
00:07<Dark0n3>I could netboot the strongarm board, but i would prefer not having a network cable connected.
00:08<James0>well i'd say if it's ever gonna work, you want a newer version of debian on the strongarm, newer than etch.
00:08<Dark0n3>Not gonna happen, its the last version made for the type
00:09<Dark0n3>If it just was possible to tell the programs to look for libs in both /lib and /nfs/lib
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00:09<James0>is the strongarm running busybox?
00:10<Dark0n3>No
00:10<James0>ulibc?
00:10<Dark0n3>Nop
00:11<James0>does a simple binary from the etch snapshot run on the strongarm? such as 'yes' or similar?
00:11<James0>or do they all complain about libs?
00:12<sney>isn't the standard practice to add alternate lib paths to /etc/ld.so.conf ?
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00:13<Dark0n3>The all complain about the same missing
00:13<Dark0n3>They even
00:13<Dark0n3>./yes: /lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.3' not found (required by ./yes)
00:13<kendle>Have you tried the LD_LIBRARY_PATH environment variable?
00:13<Dark0n3>Yea, that does a number on my system :)
00:14<Dark0n3>In other words it breaks it
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00:15<sney>what about symlinking libs to /usr/lib? then if one works you script the rest
00:16<James0>that was the next thing i was thinking - i don't know if LD_PRELOAD is supported on that configuration but it's a one time deal ie, $ LD_PRELOAD=/nfs/lib /usr/bin/yes
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00:17<James0>but ya gotta know the shared library to put in LD_PRELOAD, it doesn't search.
00:17<Dark0n3>Maybe just replacing the libs with the new ones could do it.
00:17<James0>might break the old binaries though...
00:17<Dark0n3>They could be replaced also
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00:18<Dark0n3>Maybe i have to try that
00:18<kendle>Dark0n3: Do you have a recent libc.so.6 in any directory?
00:18<Dark0n3>I do in the /nfs share mount
00:19<Dark0n3>The problem is that the programs are looking for it in /lib not /nfs/lib
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00:19<kendle>LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/nfs/lib ./yes
00:19<Dark0n3>No go, just tried
00:21<kendle>The same error? version `GLIBC_2.3' not found
00:22<Dark0n3>no such file or directory
00:22<Dark0n3>Thats strange, the file is in there
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00:23<James0>what about mounting your /nfs/lib on top of your /lib? using mount --bind
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00:24<Dark0n3>It don't know if thats possible ?
00:24<kendle>Do you have strace?
00:24<James0>since you've got kernel 2.4.x i think it should be. worth a shot. reboot and it's back to normal if things get weird
00:25<Dark0n3>Just a sec, broke it, have to reboot the stronarm
00:25<Dark0n3>No strace
00:25<Dark0n3>How would the command look for mounting the /nfs/lib on top on /lib ?
00:26<James0>example from the man page. mount --bind olddir newdir
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00:26<James0>so i'd try mount --bind /nfs/lib /lib
00:26<James0>if the hierarchies seem similar enough
00:27<Dark0n3>No go
00:27<James0>rats
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00:28<Dark0n3>Wait
00:28<Dark0n3>mount -o bind /nfs/lib /lib did the trick
00:28<Dark0n3>Python runs
00:29-!-mode/#debian [+l 403] by debhelper
00:29<James0>Python runs!
00:29<Dark0n3>So simple, and still so hard to figure out, you just saved my day :)
00:29<James0>wow, it's always a good feeling! have fun
00:30<Dark0n3>Thats just golden, and ive got the EL display to work also :)
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02:05<jthill>hi, /{usr/,}lib modules should not be hardcoding their dependency paths, right?
02:06<jthill>just the lib name, not full-spell /usr/lib/foo.so.1?
02:07<jthill>in particular, squeeze /usr/lib32/libgmodule-2.0.so.0 is hardcoding dependencies into /usr/lib
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02:12<jm_>what do you mean with that?
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02:14<jthill>having problems getting a 32bit app to load, it kept complaining about ELF64 binaries
02:15<macarthur>what's the best way to make a hdd's contens be unable to be recovered. Supposedly via google it's this command.
02:15<macarthur>dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/hda bs=1024k
02:15<macarthur>Is that the best way to do it? and of course the /dev/hda is replaced with wherever the drive is mapped to.
02:15<jthill>some digging turned me on to LD_DEBUG, which shows e.g.
02:15<jthill> 3803: file=/usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/engines/libxfce.so [0]; needed by /usr/lib32/libgmodule-2.0.so.0 [0]
02:15<jm_>macarthur: also look at tools like shred
02:16<jthill>even though there's a /usr/lib32 version of that lib
02:16<macarthur>debian package archive? or is it an interal utility
02:16<jm_>jthill: it's not hardcoding it here, it simply lists regular dependencies and has no RPATH set
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02:16<jm_>shred comes with coreutils
02:17<macarthur>the -file is the exact location of the drive right?
02:17<jm_>I think your error is caused by havign a GTK theme set and it's trying to load a 64bit theme related library or somesuch
02:17<jm_>yeah, like /dev/..., but be extra careful
02:17<macarthur>so for the external at /dev/sdb it'd be shred /dev/sdb
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02:18<jthill>so I got it backwards, lib32/libgmodule should be RPATH'ing and isn't?
02:19<jm_>jthill: well try setting LD_LIBRARY_PATH and see if it helps, but you need 32bit libxfce.so if that is the one it use
02:19<jm_>uses*
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02:20<macarthur>does it have any sort of announcement of what it's progress is? or should i just let it be for however long it's going to take. Also as a question about how long would a 320gb hdd take? 5hrs?
02:20<macarthur>with default everything
02:21<macarthur>ah there we go i forgot a command thanks jm_
02:21<syarif>helo all
02:21<syarif>is there somebody can help
02:22<jthill>just did LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib32:/lib32:./libs and it still fed me ... oh. it fed me:
02:22<jthill>Gtk-Message: Failed to load module "canberra-gtk-module": /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/modules/libcanberra-gtk-module.so: wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS64
02:22<jthill>not ld.so
02:22<jm_>macarthur: man shred - for -v: show progress
02:22<syarif>hello
02:22<syarif>somebody
02:22<jthill>just ask syarif
02:23<syarif>why i cun run my compiz
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02:25<macarthur>well i'm out of here thanks jm_ for all of the help.
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02:27<jm_>not sure if I have any 32bit GTK apps to test here
02:27<jthill>syarif: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
02:27<jthill>well, you could try the linux dwarf fortress package :-)
02:28<jthill>but I see I was barking up the wrong tree anyway, I'll do more digging myself unless this has you in its grip
02:29<jm_>i think googleearth will work
02:30<jm_>nope, that's not GTK
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02:31<kendle>jthill: In lenny the modules path is hardcoded, but can be overriden somehow
02:31<jthill>df I already had to pull in SDL_image and SDL_ttf for, so that'd be a pain
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02:32<kendle>jthill: ... using configuration files or environment variables
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02:32<jthill>kendle: somehow that isn't LD_LIBRARY_PATH?
02:32<kendle>GTK_ something
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02:33<jthill>thanks, sounds like a good place to dig on this island.
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02:34<jm_>problem reproduced, let's see how to deal with it
02:34<jm_>in 15min time though
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02:35<jthill>jm_: much gratitude floating around loose here
02:36<jthill>found GTK_PATH so far, no joy yet
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02:41<kendle>jthill: According to the documentation, GTK_PATH is the variable.
02:42<jthill>tried GTK_PATH=/usr/lib32 LD_LIBRARY_PATH=[etc], didn't help
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02:44<kendle>Have you tried GTK_PATH=/usr/lib32/gtk-2.0/modules ?
02:45<jthill>yep
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02:46<jthill>getting really brutal with it, $ strings /usr/lib32/libcanberra*|grep lib\/
02:47<jthill>produces the suspicious-to-my-newbie-eyes
02:47<jthill>/usr/lib/libcanberra-0.24/libcanberra-%s
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02:47<jthill>among others
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02:55<jthill>jm_: which package did you reproduce with please?
02:58<jm_>jthill: 32bit gcolor2 binary
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02:59<J71Os9h2u11a>hi
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03:01<jm_>jthill: right, for me this works -- GTK_PATH=/emul/ia32-linux/usr/lib/gtk-2.0 foo
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03:01<jm_>jthill: that;s where my GTk theme module is
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03:05<jthill>interesting: it still pops the ELFCLASS etc. messages but runs ok
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03:06<jthill>ar p ~/Downloads/gcolor2_0.4-2_i386.deb data.tar.gz|gunzip|tar xf -
03:06<jthill>and subbed ./gcolor2 for foo in your example, is that right?
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03:09<jm_>yup
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03:09<jthill>k, thank you very much
03:09<jm_>jthill: if this is about libcanberra-gtk-module then I don't see it being provided as a 32bit lib
03:09<yang>hi jm_
03:10<jm_>yang: 'lo
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03:11<jthill>jthill@gadabout:~/lib/df_linux$ apt-file search /usr/lib32/libcanberra.so.0
03:11<jthill>ia32-libs-gtk: /usr/lib32/libcanberra.so.0
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03:11<jthill>funny thing is, I still get the error messages, it just starts now.
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03:12<jm_>ahh are you using squeeze?
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03:12<jthill>yep
03:13<jm_>is libcanberra something that the binary depends on (ldd will tell you)?
03:13<jm_>right, I am testing on lenny which is a bit different for 32bit stuff
03:13<jthill>it says gcolor2 doesn't
03:13<jm_>but it still complains about it?
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03:14<jthill>but ./gcolor2 pops the message ... and now ./gcolor2 starts fine even with that message and without any environment overrides
03:15<jthill>ldd ./gcolor|grep canberra is empty
03:15<jthill>*./gcolor2
03:15<jm_>yeah it will work, as long as it's not a required lib
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03:15<jm_>stuff like GTK themes are optional
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03:18<jthill>ok, it's late, I'm fading fast and I see the next hurdle, which I deal with tomorrow night. *thank you*.
03:18<jm_>no worries
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04:07<lau>If I DEBCONF_FRONTEND=noninterractive aptitude -q -y full-upgrade , will I get dpkg prompt for configuration files that have changed (local vs. maintainer versions) ?
04:07<john>hey, in case the person that was here the other night helping me with my samba issues is here tonight - http://paste-bin.com/view/686f923d
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04:13<jm_>lau: you should because that's not handled as debconf
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04:31<kinboster>hi all, how can I search a file belong which package? may be this package I haven't installed on system
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04:44<bluenemo>hi guys, what does result=`expr $x \> $y` do? i dont understand the meaning of />
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04:45<bluenemo>got it answerd, it needs the \ for escaping..
04:45<Tomehb>Morning
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04:57<jm_>kinboster: /msg dpkg search
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05:11<kinboster>jm_, dpkg search? it return dpkg: need an action option
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05:13<dutchfish>hi, how can i list the packages on my system that have|have not|wil have security support from the debian security team (debian/squeeze)?
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05:13<jm_>!tell kinboster -about search
05:13<jm_>kinboster: got the message?
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05:19<kinboster>dpkg,
05:19<dpkg>kinboster: I don't know, could you explain it?
05:19<kinboster>dpkg, -about
05:19<dpkg>i don't know, kinboster
05:19<kinboster>-about
05:19<kinboster>dpkg, search
05:19<dpkg>Please search for things rather than just asking, e.g. 'apt-cache search regex', or with <aptitude search>. The following ways can locate packages that own a file (installed, or candidate for install): 'dpkg -S /bin/foo', <apt-file>, <pdo> (online) and <help find> (bot). <search dpkg> for factoids. See http://wiki.debian.org/WhereIsIt and ask me about <bot help>. See also <debtags>.
05:19<dutchfish>kinboster: /msg dpkg help
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05:30<Tomehb>Hi I was attempting to mirror the debian repo for i386. I Excluded the following Arch's alpha amd64 arm armel hppa hurd-i386 ia64 kfreebsd-amd64 kfreebsd-i386 m68k mipsel mips powerpc s390 sh sparc. According to http://www.debian.org/mirror/size the i386 repo is 36GB. However downloaded 98GB so far... Just wondering if I am doing something wrong or missing the point?
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05:41<themill>Tomehb: you need arch:all packages too. And did you include source packages?
05:41<themill>(also, do you really need a full mirror?)
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05:44<hever>Hi I'm going to manipulate HTTP Response Headers on a Webserver but I'm not sure what tool I should use for this. I can't do this in the app, and Pound or Squid (both are running) seems not be able to do this, too. So perhaps somebody has a hint for another tool or perhaps plugin? I've also a lighttpd running...
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05:46<rpetre>hever: look at varnish
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05:48<rpetre>also i should point out that modifying the http headers on the fly is probably a pretty bad answer to a simpler solution (like configuring the webserver properly and so on)
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06:05<openrebel>hi, i'm trying to set vertical edge scroll for my touchpad with synclient. however, it doesn't seem to be recognized. other options can be set (e.g. tapping). what could i do wrong. i'm on squeeze.
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06:19<boersteli>crap
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06:19<boersteli>fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
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06:20<boersteli>where's jeff?
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06:45<tzafrir_laptop>hi, my X knowledge is a bit rusty.
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06:45<tzafrir_laptop>I installed a certain package, and now I can no longer open new X windows
06:45<tzafrir_laptop>xlsclients: unable to open display ":0.0"
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06:46<tzafrir_laptop>(The package is education-desktop-sugar )
06:46<tzafrir_laptop>Before I installed it, things worked
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06:49<amphi>tzafrir_laptop: does xinit from a text console work? (you should get an X display with an xterm)
06:50<tzafrir_laptop>amphi, the odd thing is that it managed to hose an existing session
06:50<tzafrir_laptop>I actually intended to test a new session
06:51<amphi>xinit -- :1
06:51<amphi>close the term to exit the session
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06:53<tzafrir_laptop>amphi, worked
06:54<tzafrir_laptop>Though my existing session is still broken
06:54<tzafrir_laptop>The output of 'xauth -n l' is the same as before
06:54<amphi>just terminate it?
06:54<tzafrir_laptop>(I terminated the new xinit X session)
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06:55<tzafrir_laptop>(I'm running icewm under gdm)
06:57<amphi>/etc/init.d/gdm restart should kill the session and give you a new gui login
06:59<tzafrir_laptop>Which is not what I want
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06:59<tzafrir_laptop>I had this problem before. I installed that package to play with sugar
07:00<tzafrir_laptop>Then after a while I noticed that changing the IP address invalidates my X auth
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07:00<tzafrir_laptop>re-changing it brings it back
07:00<tzafrir_laptop>At the time I had no time to debug the issue so I purged what I could.
07:00<tzafrir_laptop>Now I have the time to debug and reinstalled things
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07:15<lau>jm_ thx for your answer , what is a good practice in order to check if debconf will need to be seeded before running an aptitude -q -y full-upgrade ?
07:16<jm_>lau: hmm not sure
07:16<lau>I saw that I could use a testing machine then pipe the debconf.cache to the remote park
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07:42<dierwechter> hello my /tmp is full ,.. how i can allocate more space please
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07:51<tzafrir_laptop>dierwechter, delete some files from there? :-(
07:51<amitz>dierwechter: is /tmp its own partition? are you running a webserver?
07:52<tzafrir_laptop>Is it on a partition of its own? Or part of your / partition
07:52-!-superjet_busy [~superjet@1RDAABZJC.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
07:52<tzafrir_laptop>try 'df /tmp' if you don't know the answer
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07:52<dierwechter>Dateisystem 1Kâ€Blöcke Benutzt Verfügbar Ben% Eingehängt auf
07:52<dierwechter>none 16384 16384 0 100% /tmp
07:53<tzafrir_laptop>back to my xauth problem
07:53-!-chitchat [~guest@120.20.144.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:53<tzafrir_laptop>X runs with: -auth /var/lib/gdm/:0.Xauth
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07:53<tzafrir_laptop># XAUTHORITY=/var/lib/gdm/\:0.Xauth xauth l
07:53<tzafrir_laptop>#ffff##:0 MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 f322[snipped]
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07:56<tzafrir_laptop>I do see the same cookie in the output of 'xauth -n l'
07:56<tzafrir_laptop>Apart from the cookie, what else could limit my authentication?
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08:12<tzafrir_laptop>So my workaround so far is to copy /var/lib/gdm/:0-Xauth .
08:12<tzafrir_laptop>I can't figure out how to add or extract the special name '#ffff##:0'
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08:16<R3T0>hay
08:16-!-J71Os9h2u11a [~dave@212.117.110.135] has joined #debian
08:16<R3T0>halllooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
08:17<R3T0>fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
08:17<R3T0>aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
08:17<cthuluh>please stop
08:17<R3T0>why?
08:17<cthuluh>too much noise for saying nothing
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08:18<R3T0>disable the alerts lol
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08:18<J2o3sh383u1928a>hi
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08:22<sret>hi
08:22<sret>anyone awake
08:23<sret>i was just wondering
08:23<sret>i have an o'reilly's book called linux in a nutshell
08:23<sret>5th edition
08:23<sret>2005
08:23<devil>please!
08:23<sret>is tihs alright?
08:23<sret>or commands have changed now and then?
08:24<sret>and another book Unix in 24 hrs by dave taylor
08:24<devil>abusive usage of the enter key, it is really annoying.
08:24<sret>which is more concise for newbies than the linux in a nutshell
08:24<@Ganneff>for the next time: dont use enter. this could have gone in one, max. 2 lines. then, commands change always, use the manpage, but its a good start to learn
08:24<@Ganneff>and then, you are wrong here, this is debian support, not linux in general
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08:25<sret>considering im using debian, and trying to learn debian which is linux, there's a huge difference or something learning from that book?
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08:27<sret>the manpage is scary, gets too technical and i wanted something to read like a book than reading off my monitor. but i wanted to know since its edition is 2005, would there be a lot of change in the commands and syntaxes
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08:28<NeoWolf>hello
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08:28<NeoWolf>can someone explain me how are organised the debiam media?
08:31<jm_>NeoWolf: you mean contents?
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08:32<NeoWolf>jm_ yes please
08:32<jm_>NeoWolf: /msg dpkg cd contents
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08:36<Alan677>hi all, I'm writing a script for a deb package (maintainer script). I have a doubt ... if for example I have a statement 'cd test' (not the last statement in the file), but the test folder does not exist (for which the exit status of command is different from 0), the package installation is stopped or I have to explain the error such as 'if cd test; then ... else exit 1' ? thanks
08:37<NeoWolf>tnx jm_
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08:39<sret>oh Ganneff answered already ok so i need to double check with the manpage.. ok
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08:39<cthuluh>Alan677: if the script is launched with set -e, then it will exit on the first error encountered. but carefully checking the exit code of your commands should provide the same security, and can give more helpful error messages to the user
08:40<cthuluh>Alan677: personnaly, I consider set -e as bad style, since it leads to *any* error leading to a partially configured package
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08:41<sakrayaami>hello people :)
08:41<Alan677>thanks for the explanation ;)
08:42<sakrayaami>can you help me, im trying to set auto mount in Debian Lenny xfce 4
08:43<sakrayaami>do you know if autofs is a good choice?
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08:44<cthuluh>autofs, pam_mount. they do their job
08:45<cthuluh>sakrayaami: ask dpkg about them
08:45<sakrayaami>how can i do this :)
08:46<cthuluh>sakrayaami: type /msg dpkg autofs
08:46<sakrayaami>thank you
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08:52<sret>i give up on vim, its syntaxes are just outrageous, almost makes it impossible to memorise.
08:52<cthuluh>plain vi is sane. though I would rather use emacs
08:53<sret>no kidding, emacs syntaxes are so much saner, well in the book for vi and vim or ex, its just insane. doesnt go by something like a standard, it frequently changes everywhere on every command
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08:54<cthuluh>sret: I suggest the tutorial coming with nvi
08:55<babilen>sret: You are mistaken, but if you prefer to follow the church of emacs so be it :)
08:56<sret> /usr/doc/nvi/vi. this? hehe babilen im trying man, but its just so confusing, i have to keep checking the book
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08:56<cthuluh>sret: the nvi-doc package
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08:56<J2o3sh383u1928a>hi
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08:57<sret>ah, installing it, thanks
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08:57<R3T0>hello i'm reto
08:57<babilen>sret: I would start with "vimtutor" -- but which book are you reading?
08:58-!-netw0rk [~netw0rk@212.117.110.135] has quit []
08:58<sret>linux in a nutshell o'reilly and Unix by dave taylor
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09:00<babilen>http://www.vim.org/docs.php -- but if you prefer emacs, go for it. It is a fine and powerful editor too. May you have fun!
09:03<sret>i'm going to try both, but so far at a glance emacs looks kinda easier but i'll check these docs and the one cthuluh mentioned, thanks
09:04<babilen>sret: Keep in mind that nvi is *not* vim ...
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09:08<cthuluh>babilen: and that vim is *not* vi? ;)
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09:21<sakrayaami>hey again, can you recommend me a good flash player for iceweasel ?
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09:21<cthuluh>dpkg: tell sakrayaami -about flash
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09:22<NeoWolf>i've read in some blogs that there exist some problems with notebook battery when you use linux 2.6.32.Debian Squeeze just uses this kernel, so have i think that it is not a good idea to install debian squezze testing on my notebook?
09:22<cthuluh>which blogs?
09:22<themill>"some problems" is sufficiently vague as to always be true
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09:23<NeoWolf>high temperature, therefore less battery
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09:25<smv>NeoWolf, i'd say, measure the 'things' with the current OS, install Squeeze, measure again and decide for yourself. It won't hurt to test for a few minutes/hours.
09:25<NeoWolf>http://www.oneopensource.it/27/07/2010/notebook-e-batterie-un-disastro-chiamato-ubuntu-lucid-lynx/
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09:25<NeoWolf>this is one italian blog that
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09:25<NeoWolf>get information
09:25<NeoWolf>form
09:26<NeoWolf>*rom
09:26<NeoWolf>**from
09:26<NeoWolf>https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/524281/+index?comments=all
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09:26<themill>,kernels --release experimental
09:26<judd>Available kernel versions are: experimental: 2.6.37-trunk-686 (2.6.37-1~experimental.1)
09:27<themill>NeoWolf: you could always use a newer kernel with squeeze if you want; I've not noticed this to be a problem, however.
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09:28<smv>why do i think that the kernel in Ubuntu, which is the cause of that blog post, is _not_ the same in Squeeze?
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09:29<NeoWolf>smv the same is confirmed also for debian and arch linux with the same version fo the kernel
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09:30<NeoWolf>however, excuse me for my no ver good english.
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09:32<srer>ok got dc
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09:33<srer>babilen: thanks, im checking those docs and the one cthuluh mentioned.
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09:56<terkinat0r123>rsync is not ownloaded fileupdating partially d
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09:56<terkinat0r123>Any ideas what could cause this or how to troubleshoot?
09:57<jordanm>your first statement is somewhat broken...
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09:58<terkinat0r123>jordanm, :) sorry
09:58-!-aroundthfur [~change@host-125-110.panorama.sth.ac.at] has joined #debian
09:59<terkinat0r123>I'm trying to resume file download via rsync
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09:59<terkinat0r123>download was started with sftp initially
10:00<terkinat0r123>file on remote machine is 4.1 gb and on local it's 3.1 gb
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10:01<catsup>how are you measuring
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10:01<catsup>oh nm you're downloading it
10:01<catsup>you're using --partial ?
10:02<terkinat0r123>i tried with partial too, didnt do anything
10:02<terkinat0r123>http://pastebin.com/sEk1F7K0
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10:02<terkinat0r123>in SF folder there is 1 file
10:03<catsup>what's it do, overwrite it?
10:03<Tomehb_>themill, thankyou for response. Do I Require the sources?
10:04<jordanm>Tomehb_: for a newer kernel, it is only available from experimental, or kernel.org
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10:04<terkinat0r123>catsup, http://pastebin.com/dz0D8Nkk
10:04<terkinat0r123>it skips it I guess or thinks nothing needs to be downloaded
10:05<catsup>oh
10:05<catsup>lose the -u
10:05<catsup>or change the timestamps
10:05<catsup>i guess
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10:06<terkinat0r123>catsup, now it's stuck at "receiving incremental file list"
10:06<terkinat0r123>so I guess it's working?
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10:06<themill>Tomehb_: only if you actually want the sources (i.e. a deb-src entry in your sources.list)
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10:07<Tomehb_>thankyou
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10:08<terkinat0r123>catsup, thanks for help, it worked
10:08<terkinat0r123>you guys are awesome
10:09<themill>Tomehb_: but as I said -- do you really need a fully mirror anyway? A cacher is probably much more useful and will save a lot of bandwidth for the people who are donating bandwidth to the project.
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10:19<Tomehb_>themill: I don't think that bandwidth is the issue. However, that could possibly be a better method. The reason we want a full mirror is so that we can secure traffic flows to the external world. So are internal machines will not have to have access to external debian mirrors
10:21<themill>You could configure your network so that a cacher could do that quite nicely for you too. There are a few around that you could choose from, e.g. /msg dpkg apt-cacher
10:21*jordanm recommends apt-cacher-ng
10:23<Tomehb_>¡
10:23<cthuluh>Tomehb_: "I don't think that bandwidth is the issue." <- then think twice
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10:23<cthuluh>and I recommend apt-cacher-ng too
10:24<OdyX>approx has proven to be more robust than apt-cacher-ng for me…
10:25-!-majlo [~majlo@79.139.92.170] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:26<themill>approx, apt-cacher and apt-cacher-ng all have similar popcon data, fwiw.
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10:27*jordanm could never get apt-cacher to work because of #517874
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10:35<mast3r>hey
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10:39<Tomehb_>Okay, I will give them a try
10:39<Tomehb_>instead of the full mirror
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11:00<Blackjester>where can i find backtrack channel
11:00<themill>!bt4
11:00<dpkg>BackTrack is not Debian and is not supported in #debian (ask me about <based on debian>). Try http://www.backtrack-linux.org/ or #backtrack-linux on irc.freenode.net instead. BackTrack is a Linux distribution based on <Ubuntu> Intrepid (as of BackTrack 4), previously <SLAX>. Derived from merging two penetration-testing distributions: WHAX (formerly WHOPPIX) and Auditor Security Linux.
11:01<Blackjester>hell yeah thanx
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11:22<ballison>is there a dpkg -i type option that will let me see the compile time options for a package?
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11:22<ballison>i want to see how to lenny default php was compiled (with what flags) ?
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11:24<themill>ballison: you need to look in the source package and check the debian/rules file to see that
11:24<ballison>apt-get install php-src ?
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11:25<themill>ballison: no, "apt-get source php5", assuming you have a deb-src line (only) for lenny.
11:25<themill>!deb-src
11:25<dpkg>'deb-src http://ftp.CC.debian.org/debian/ <release> main contrib non-free' (example) where 'CC' is the Country Code, replace with your own for a local mirror - ask me about <source> or <apt-build> for some info about how to build stuff, make sure "build-essential" is installed, ask me about <module-assistant>. Might need to have linux-headers-$(uname -r) (if using a Debian kernel) and libc6-dev installed.
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11:26<Darkk>hello is it possible to enter a dir and execute there something
11:26<Darkk>example
11:27<Darkk>i need always go to
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11:27<Darkk>cd /home/gameservers/cod1/server1
11:27<Darkk>and then
11:27<Darkk> ./start.sh start
11:27<Darkk>can i do this like
11:27<Darkk>cd /home/gameservers/cod1/server1 ./start.sh start
11:27<Darkk>?
11:27<Darkk>is there a way ?
11:27<Darkk>like
11:27<Darkk>cd /home/gameservers/cod1/server1 ./start.sh start
11:27<Darkk>cd /home/gameservers/cod1/server2 ./start.sh start
11:28<Gathond>you have to do it in 2 commands
11:28<Gathond>you can use ; in bash anyway to separate commands on one line
11:28<Darkk>can't in one ?
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11:28<Darkk>yeah it work
11:28<Darkk>;
11:28<Darkk>thnx mate
11:29-!-mode/#debian [+l 454] by debhelper
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11:30<jhutchins_lt>Darkk: See also the use of & and && in scripts.
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11:34<diego>list
11:34<diego>#list
11:35<cthuluh>diego: need some help?
11:36<adb>diego, try !list ..
11:36<babilen>adb: won't help much :)
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11:50<kiran>hello guys
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12:30<dorany>hello to every body
12:31<glow_wolf>Im haveing a problem getting sound to come out of my headphones I have Acl880 audio.
12:31<dorany>I have a question and I was looking in internet but i did`t find
12:31<dorany>the point is
12:31<dorany>while I try to connect by wifi i get error
12:31<dorany>binari0:/home/dorany# iwlist wlan0 scanning
12:31<dorany>wlan0 No scan results
12:32<dorany>and I can see my device with lspci
12:33<dorany>this is the device Atheros Communications Inc. AR242x 802.11abg Wireless PCI Express Adapter (rev 01)
12:33<dorany>if someone can help me I will be so thankful to who can help me
12:34-!-DrGkill [~DrGkill@omegacube.pck.nerim.net] has quit []
12:34<retrospectacus>!ar242x
12:34<dpkg>[ar242x] Atheros AR5006* (AR2423, AR2424) PCI wireless LAN chipsets are supported by the <ath5k> driver included in Debian Lenny's 2.6.26 kernel. Atheros AR5007* (AR2425) PCI-E chipsets are supported by ath5k since Linux 2.6.27; Lenny users, ask me about <bdo kernel> to install a later kernel version for device use.
12:34<dorany>and thank before hand
12:34-!-fanis [~fanis3@cpe-77-83-31-184-dsl.netone.gr] has joined #debian
12:35<retrospectacus>dorany, you have lenny? what is your kernel number? "uname -r"
12:35<dorany>wait
12:35<dorany>2.6.26-2-686
12:36-!-dorany is now known as binari0
12:36<binari0>there is the version of kernel Linux binari0 2.6.26-2-686 #1 SMP Thu Nov 25 01:53:57 UTC 2010 i686 GNU/Linux
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12:38<retrospectacus>should just work, I think
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12:41<binari0>is so rare because the wlan0 is up by the init but I can`t get ip, well because the system can`t get connection to wireless
12:42-!-dvs [~me@cwv.teksavvy.com] has joined #debian
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12:42<binari0>and when I try to see the network with iwlist I get the error
12:42-!-bran__ is now known as rss
12:42<retrospectacus>perhaps a physical radio switch? Are you sure there is wireless available?
12:42-!-Nyoto [~Nyoto@sav67-1-82-227-74-244.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian
12:42<binari0>binari0:/home/dorany# iwlist wlan0 scanning
12:42<binari0>wlan0 No scan results
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12:43<retrospectacus>yes I saw that
12:44<retrospectacus>I've just used the network-manager applet.
12:44<binari0>and I could`t find information about that in internet
12:44-!-mtn [~mtn@99-196-115-234.cust.wildblue.net] has joined #debian
12:44<binari0>network-manager??
12:44<binari0>ok will try
12:44<binari0>thank you
12:45<rss>binari0: as root try iwconfig that should list interfaces with wireless extensions
12:45<retrospectacus>nm-applet
12:45<binari0>yes man I work in the terminal like root
12:46-!-bemawi [~bemawi@cou82-2-88-180-132-32.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian
12:46<rss>binari0: my iwconfig shows eth1 as the interface with wireless extensions
12:46-!-Chill-k [~chill@92.60.188.65] has joined #debian
12:47<rss>binari0: so for me iwlist eth1 scanning works
12:47<binari0>binari0:/home/dorany# nm-applet
12:47<binari0>(nm-applet:5555): GnomeUI-WARNING **: While connecting to session manager:
12:47<binari0>Authentication Rejected, reason : None of the authentication protocols specified are supported and host-based authentication failed.
12:48-!-thierry [~thierry@41.217.196.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:48<binari0>for me the wireless is wlan0, I think so!!!
12:49<retrospectacus>run that as user
12:49<binari0>ok I will
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12:50<rss>awak
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12:52<binari0>ok, retrospectacus you right the nm-applet is up like normal user but I nm-apple don`t show me the wireless interfaces
12:53-!-aptosid [~aptosid@modemcable232.97-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #debian
12:53<retrospectacus>it is supposed to show the available networks
12:53-!-aptosid is now known as Kalidor
12:53<retrospectacus>(not the interfaces, particularly)
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12:54<retrospectacus>I don't have wireless on this machine so I don't know the details
12:55<binari0>well, thank you anyway
12:55<rss>binari0: I do not use network manager either. So i cannot help with that.
12:55<rss>binari0: what wireless chipset and kernel module are you using?
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12:57<retrospectacus>he has a Atheros AR242x - should use ath5k built into 2.6.26
12:58<rss>retrospectacus, binari0: yes ls mod should list that including wireless extensions.
12:58-!-Iz4c [~Iz4c@86.88.119.70.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
12:58<rss>oops lsmod
12:58<retrospectacus>yeah lsmod|grep ath
12:58-!-thierry [~thierry@41.217.196.221] has joined #debian
12:58<retrospectacus>might shed some light
12:58<rss>retrospectacus: lsmod|grep 80211
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12:58<retrospectacus>better :)
12:58<rss>retrospectacus: does the atheros chipset need firmware?
12:59-!-mode/#debian [+l 452] by debhelper
12:59<rss>apt-get install firmwre-nonfree ?
12:59<binari0>binari0:/home/dorany# lsmod | grep ath
12:59<binari0>ath5k 87648 0
12:59<binari0>mac80211 139808 1 ath5k
12:59<binari0>cfg80211 21608 2 ath5k,mac80211
12:59-!-binari0 was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use http://paste.debian.net or /msg dpkg paste]
12:59<rss>apt-get install firmware-nonfree ?
12:59<retrospectacus>II'm not sure
12:59<retrospectacus>!ath5k
12:59<dpkg>[ath5k] a completely free (no proprietary HAL) driver for Atheros 802.11a/bg PCI wireless LAN chipsets. Included in Debian kernels since 2.6.24. See http://wiki.debian.org/ath5k for more information and supported devices. For AR5007* devices, ask me about <ar2425>. For 802.11n device support, ask me about <ath9k>. See also <debian-backports>.
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13:00<rss>retrospectacus: ok no firmware then
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13:00<retrospectacus>yeah should be ok
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13:02<rss>binari0: hi
13:02<binari0>well!!!
13:03<binari0>somebody kicked me
13:03<dvs>binari0: you pasted in the channel
13:03<rss>binari0: debhelper bot did that pating is a no no here
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13:06<retrospectacus>binari0: perhaps a physical radio switch for your device is turned off? Are you sure there is wireless networks available?
13:06<rss>retrospectacus, binari0: that sound about right. Check wireless switch
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13:07<retrospectacus>binari0: use pastebin.com or such to show us a large amount of text (>2 lines)
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13:12<rss>retrospectacus: there is an atheros firmware
13:13<babilen>binari0: Please do the following and paste all output+commands to http://paste.debian.net : "lspci -nn|grep -i network" "modprobe -r ath5k ; modprobe ath5k ; dmesg | tail -n 10" "ifconfig -a" "iwconfig" "iwlist wlan0 scan"
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13:14<rss>babilen, retrospectacus: just noticed that binari0 left on a ping timeout.
13:15<lac>Is there a channel for running debian on your android phone? samsung galaxy 9000 if that matters?
13:15-!-binari0 [~dorany@190.80.153.148] has joined #debian
13:15<babilen>rss: Yeah, he left while I was still typing ... Well, you can't help the impatient :)
13:15<retrospectacus>binari0: what's your status
13:15-!-Chill-k [~chill@92.60.188.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
13:16<rss>retrospectacus: he has left the server with a ping timeout
13:16<babilen>rss: binari0 is back
13:16-!-mtn [~mtn@99-196-115-234.cust.wildblue.net] has joined #debian
13:16<babilen>binari0: are you?
13:16<rss>babilen: misssed that sorry
13:16*babilen pokes binari0
13:17<binari0>yes my internet was down
13:17<babilen>binari0: Please do the following and paste all output+commands to http://paste.debian.net : "lspci -nn|grep -i network" "modprobe -r ath5k ; modprobe ath5k ; dmesg | tail -n 10" "ifconfig -a" "iwconfig" "iwlist wlan0 scan"
13:17<binari0>ok, I will
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13:20<babilen>binari0: err, forgot an "ifconfig wlan0 up" between "iwconfig" and "iwlist wlan0 scan"
13:20<babilen>:)
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13:23<binari0>http://paste.debian.net/104625/
13:23<binari0>the fist command don`t work, I mean I don`t have output
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13:24<binari0>this command "lspci -nn| grep -i network"
13:24<babilen>binari0: Oh, ok. I was looking for the line with your wifi adaptor from the "lspci -nn" output and you forgot "iwconfig" ...
13:24-!-dvs [~me@cwv.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:24<babilen>But what you've pasted looks good. Are you sure that there is a WiFi in range?
13:25<retrospectacus>go with lspci -nn |grep -i wireless
13:25-!-dvs [~me@cwv.teksavvy.com] has joined #debian
13:25<babilen>or just do "lspci -nn" and give the line of your adaptor :)
13:26<binari0>Ethernet controller [0200]: Atheros Communications Inc. AR242x 802.11abg Wireless PCI Express Adapter [168c:001c] (rev 01)
13:26-!-jester45 [~ryuk@28IAAB286.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
13:27<binari0>this is the line from lscpi about wireless
13:27<retrospectacus>,pciid 168c:001c
13:27<judd>[168c:001c] is 'AR5001 Wireless Network Adapter' from 'Atheros Communications Inc.' with kernel module 'ath5k' in lenny. See also http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/index.rhtmlx?check=1&lspci=168c:001c http://wiki.debian.org/ath5k and the out-of-tree 'ath_pci' module.
13:27<babilen>binari0: Could you also paste "modinfo ath5k" (I don't have a lenny machine available right now, sorry)
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13:29<binari0>there is the output off modinfo ath5k http://paste.debian.net/104626/
13:29-!-ant [~anton@cpc2-sotn4-0-0-cust684.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #debian
13:29<babilen>binari0: And you have a pci-e adaptor -- you'll need a newer kernel for that. Install one from bdo
13:29<babilen>!bdo kernel
13:29<dpkg>Newer kernels for Debian stable releases are distributed via backports.debian.org. Ask me about <bdo> to add backports.debian.org to your sources.list correctly. You can then "aptitude update && aptitude -t lenny-backports install linux-image-`uname -r | sed 's,.*-,,'`" (i.e. linux-image-686, linux-image-amd64). "/msg judd kernels" to see a list of kernels in Debian.
13:30<babilen>or rather, hang on ...
13:31<babilen>I mean, it can't hurt to try a newer kernel, but still: Are you sure that there is a wlan around?
13:31-!-rage [~rage@val59-5-88-172-75-180.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian
13:31<binari0>yes I sure
13:31<babilen>Your modinfo claims to support that device and everything you pasted indicates that it should work :-\
13:32<babilen>Ah well, try with 2.6.32 from bdo -- it might be a problem with the pci-e (as mentioned in the factoid) and not the chipset itself
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13:34<retrospectacus>binari0, it's not a hidden network or anything?
13:34-!-ylmfos [~ylmfos@60.221.233.22] has joined #debian
13:34<ylmfos>hi
13:34-!-Brigo [~Brigo@139.182.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #debian
13:34<binari0>ass you can see I new in debian I was working in slackware with the same laptop and it was working
13:35<babilen>Stange, every resource has "ar5001" (kmuto, ...) but the lspci output has it has ar242x ..
13:35<babilen>binari0: Which kernel version did you use in slackware?
13:36<binari0>the same like debian
13:36<babilen>2.6.26?
13:36<binari0>yes
13:36<binari0>the version was 13.1
13:37<binari0>I mean the version of slackware 13.1
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13:39<babilen>binari0: What baffles me is that the PCIID that is reported for your device (168c:001c) is listed as "AR5001" in every resource I am using, but "lspci" has it as "AR242x" ...
13:40<binari0>no, no I make a mistake I remember the version of kernel was 2.6.33
13:40<babilen>ah, different subsystem ID, that makes sense
13:41-!-thierry [~thierry@41.217.196.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:41<babilen>binari0: I would just try a newer kernel. Is this your own personal computer? If so I would actually recommend to upgrade to Squeeze (the next Debian release, expected to be released soonish)
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13:43<babilen>Follow: http://www.debian.org/releases/squeeze/releasenotes -- If you don't want to upgrade, you can install a 2.6.32 from backports, follow http://backports.debian.org/Instructions/ and ask dpkg about "bdo kernel" -- /msg dpkg bdo kernel
13:43-!-attilde_the_hun [~attilde@nat60-1.kcls.org] has joined #debian
13:43<babilen>Supper is ready (or I have to check if it is) -- Good luck and see you later :)
13:44<rss>binari0: what babilen said try the squeeze upgrade it has a much newer kernel which may support your card.
13:44<rss>babilen: have a nice meal
13:44<binari0>well thank you all. you gave me a lot of help I feel so thankful to you all
13:45<rss>binari0: no problem
13:45<binari0>I will upgrade the kernel
13:45<babilen>Ah, it needs a few more minutes in the oven.
13:46<binari0>it will try to learn more about linux
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13:46<rss>binari0: edit your /etc/apt/sources.list
13:47<rss>replace lenny with squueze in that file, or stable with testing
13:47<rss>apt-get update
13:47<rss>apt-get -ud upgrade
13:47<rss>apt-get -ud upgrade
13:47<rss>apt-get -ud dist-upgrade
13:47<babilen>NOOO!
13:47<rss>apt-get -u dist-upgrade
13:47<rss>you should now be uograded to squeeze
13:47<babilen>binari0: Please don't do that!
13:48<rss>of course as a new kernel is also installed a reboot is necessary
13:48<rss>babilen: why not?
13:48<babilen>binari0: I would strongly recommend to follow the release notes if you want to upgrade from lenny (the release you are currently using) to Squeeze
13:49<sney`>some of the software transitions between lenny and squeeze can break your system if you just blindly dist-upgrade
13:49<babilen>rss: Because it will not work. It is of uttermost importance to upgrade the kernel and udev before upgrading the rest of the system.
13:49<rss>babilen: OOPS, missed that one
13:49<rss>Thank you for rescuing him
13:49-!-nasuta-work [~nasuta-Wo@213.162.68.4] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out]
13:49<rss>I have been running sid since forwever
13:50<rss>Iḿ looking for a rock to crawl under now
13:50<sney`>I guess you don't fear broken systems then :P
13:50-!-nasuta-work [~nasuta-Wo@213.162.68.4] has joined #debian
13:50<babilen>rss: It's nothing that can't be solved and I remember some nights in here were people were complaining about the udev upgrade ... Ah, good old times :)
13:51<binari0>well, what do you think if I download the kernel and do that manualy
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13:51<babilen>rss: It's just nothing I want to impose on somebody
13:51<rss>sney`: the kernel has never broken for me the only trouble i've run into is xorg
13:51<sney`>rss: the ways in which sid breaks are many and varied and depend heavily on what you're doing. but you know that already
13:51<rss>babilen: grin
13:51<binari0>this is the fun part!!! do by my self
13:52<sney`>I'm just glad they figured out exactly how to make the upgrade work, there was a while when it was a mess every time because it wasn't really clear what was breaking
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13:52<babilen>binari0: Do what? You have three options: 1. Upgrade to Squeeze (complete system upgrade) by following the release notes 2. Install a backported 2.6.32 kernel from backports (follow backport instructions+ /msg dpkg bdo kernel) and 3. Compile your own kernel. /msg dpkg kp and http://wiki.debian.org/HowToRebuildAnOfficialDebianKernelPackage (if you want .36 or .37)
13:53<sney`>choices!
13:54<rss>sney`: running a hand compile 2.6.37 myself
13:54<babilen>binari0: I would recommend 1. or 2. -- but it is up to you and I will not abduct your cat to prevent you from cuddling in the evening
13:54<sney`>I don't bother with kernel builds anymore, though I used to do it religiously... probably because I no longer have run any weird hardware
13:55<babilen>binari0: (if you don't follow my advice)
13:55<binari0>the last sound interesting
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13:55<rss>binari0: the last option is interesting. Very many questins to answer about you machine though. running a stock kernel should be fine
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13:55<babilen>I guess the ratatouille is done now ...
13:56<rss>babilen: have a nice meal;)
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13:56<binari0>just tell me where I can find a good manual for make kernel in debian style
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13:57<cahoot>man make-kpkg
13:57<binari0>great thank you a lot.
13:57<rss>sney`: sid breakage happens. I usually check listchanges before i upgrade.
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13:58<rss>babilen: is that the rat pulling your hair to cook or the dish (grin)
14:01<binari0>well I go to work in the kernel maybe I tell you tomorrow what happen, see you and have a good day for all.
14:01<rss>binari0: have fun
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14:04<babilen>rss: The dish: http://i.imgur.com/Ws1Qd.jpg (photo just for you)
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14:06<rss>babilen: look good!
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14:31<grgur>ohi everyone
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14:38<retrospectacus>hello grgur
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14:42<rss>grgur: hi
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14:57<nixon>speak spanish ?
14:58<bartm>!es
14:58<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
14:58<nixon>thanks
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15:05<hdon>hi all :) how can i set the reply address for outgoing email? i'm using postfix for incoming smtp and mutt as my mail reader
15:07<bartm>hdon, put this in ~/.muttrc : my_hdr From: ...
15:07<bartm>hdon, or reply to header
15:07<hdon>bartm, ah, i would have guessed to look there, but it doesn't seem to make a default configuration file automatically
15:07<hdon>bartm, thanks :)
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15:25<Loozer>Hi guys, any good links on how to setup a cross compile environment on Debian ?
15:25<sney`>I bet #emdebian would know
15:26<Loozer>Checking :)
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15:57<level0>hi guys
15:57<level0>and girls : )
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15:57<sney`>hi
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15:58<level0>I want to start develop debian but not sure where to start
15:58<level0>anyone involved in development here ?
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16:00<devilT>helloo
16:00<level0>hi
16:00-!-dany [~dany@186.10.120.246] has joined #debian
16:00<devilT>what's up
16:00<dany>hola
16:01<devilT>are you inglish?
16:01<level0>me no
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16:01<devilT>i'm portuguese and you?
16:01<sney`>level0: probably best to read the debian-devel mailing list
16:01<bartm>level0, what kind of "develop debian" would you like to do?
16:02<ompaul>!pt
16:02<dpkg>Por favor use #debian-pt para ajuda em portugues ou #debian-br para ajuda em portugues do brasil. ( /join #debian-pt )
16:02<devilT>lool
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16:02<ompaul>level0: join #debian-mentor they can help you work at that
16:02<level0>not sure probably I should start from working on one of the apps
16:03<ompaul>!mentor
16:03<dpkg>mentors is, like, the system the Debian project uses to train new people to become Debian Developers or Debian Maintainers and get their packages into the Debian archive. Ask me about <nmg>. http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/ http://mentors.debian.net/ #debian-mentors on irc.debian.org.
16:03<bartm>level0, programming? debugging? documenting?
16:03<level0>programming
16:04<ompaul>level0: language(s)
16:04<level0>english/polish/russian
16:04<ompaul>level0: programming languages
16:04<level0>:)
16:04<bartm>level0, and programming languages? :)
16:05<level0>C perl C#
16:05-!-skyegg is now known as skyegg_away
16:05<level0>currently Im coding in C#
16:05<devilT>what
16:06<level0>business apps etc
16:06-!-rage [~rage@val59-5-88-172-75-180.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
16:06<ompaul>level0: mono is the C# on linux - C and perl are more useful
16:06<devilT>hacking?
16:06<bartm>any packages in debian you're interested in?
16:06<level0>but in linux looking for coding in pure C/C++
16:07<devilT>asd
16:07<devilT>ds
16:07<devilT>dsf
16:07<devilT>ds
16:07-!-devilT was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use http://paste.debian.net or /msg dpkg paste]
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16:07<ompaul>level0: seriously #debian-mentors will talk you through that, pure C is kernel space usually
16:07<mentor>Lies
16:07<ompaul>mentor: I am full of them
16:07<mentor>The greater part of applications are written in C/C++
16:08<ompaul>C++ yes but C most lines single program kernel
16:08<mentor>No
16:08<ompaul>unless I missed something
16:08<level0>yes kernel in pure C/asm probably
16:08<mentor>The entire of GNOME is written in C, for example
16:08<ompaul>awaits correction
16:08<ompaul>ah
16:08<mentor>Along with almost all command line
16:09<ompaul>mentor: remind me to bring my brain the next day :)
16:09<ompaul>kde C++
16:09<mentor>Yep
16:09<Lethalman>ompaul, and dpkg
16:09<ompaul>and lots more :)
16:09<ompaul>I really did not think before engaging keyboard there
16:09-!-phoenix [~phoenix@efx44.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:10<level0>a lot of apps is created in java also
16:10<level0>not sure if this kind of java apps are included in debian distro
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16:11<mentor>Java, being mostly non-free, isn't widely used
16:11<level0>java's free I think
16:11<mentor>classpath
16:11*mentor waves his hand
16:11<hdon>level0, what compelled you to favor Debian with your software development efforts?
16:11<mentor>Also, we tend to have a different approach to cross-platform that somewhat bypasses Java
16:12<level0>I like debian and I want to help if possible
16:12<hdon>level0, Debian is made up of many software packages made by many different individuals and organizations. if you were to pick a random application you see a Debian user using, it's probably not one developed directly by Debian maintainers
16:13-!-vizor_ [~vizor@178.120.172.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:13<hdon>level0, there is a whole free and open source software ecosystem with places to help :)
16:13<level0>I know
16:13<bartm>level0, any packages in debian you're interested in to work on?
16:14<level0>I have some knowledge about networks so something like this would be good
16:15<level0>you know socket / client server programming etc
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16:16<level0>linux looks like great hobby to have : )
16:16-!-afurlan [~afurlan@200.14.32.75] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:16<bartm>true
16:17-!-psych787 [~psych787@1GLAAE4QD.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #debian
16:17<level0>you guys what you are doing are coders ?
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16:18<mentor>level0: This is a users channel mostly
16:18<level0>right
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16:18*ompaul points out some of them need to be corrected now and again (coughs and wanders to side line)
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16:21<level0>ok thank you, bye
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16:21<mentor>level0: Honestly, the best thing you can do for Debian, at least initially, is probably to fix
16:21<mentor>feh
16:21<bartm>mentor, level0 is gone
16:22<mentor>Er, yes.
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16:45<massimo_>ciao a tutti !
16:45<bartm>!it
16:45<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
16:46<bartm>or english here :)
16:46<sney`>but no !list
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16:49<Loozer>No one with experience on cross compiling and gentoo ?
16:50<Loozer>debian, sorry im sleeping
16:50<Loozer>Long day :)
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17:11<sales>dsfs
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17:11<sales>dfgsd
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17:12<retrospectacus>sales: can we help you?
17:12<Cyrus>I doubt it. He's in sales.
17:12<sales>como é?
17:12<bartm>sales, language ?
17:12<sales>eu nao estou entendendo
17:12<sales>portugues
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17:12<bartm>!pt
17:12<dpkg>Por favor use #debian-pt para ajuda em portugues ou #debian-br para ajuda em portugues do brasil. ( /join #debian-pt )
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17:37<aquiles>hello world
17:38<AzaToth>gah, I've not updated in such a long time my /var is full due to soo many debs
17:38<retrospectacus>AzaToth: apt-get clean
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17:39<AzaToth>retrospectacus: I know, but I need to upgrade as well
17:39<AzaToth>and my system is so old I got the "Could not perform immediate configuration on 'libc6'" error as well
17:40<AzaToth>time to get a new box
17:40-!-sweil [~stefan@p5086EE6F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:40<retrospectacus>maybe, sounds like
17:40<retrospectacus>what version of libc6 do you have
17:40-!-adb [~Moldovean@178-211-232-101.dhcp.voenergies.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:41<AzaToth>had 2.11.2-7
17:41<AzaToth>erm
17:41<AzaToth>2.11.2-2 I meant
17:41<retrospectacus>that is quite new
17:42<AzaToth>libc6-dev was 2.11.2-7
17:42-!-aquiles [~aquiles@ip70-185-245-189.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit []
17:42<retrospectacus>,versions libc6
17:42<judd>Package libc6 on i386 -- etch: 2.3.6.ds1-13etch10+b1; etch-security: 2.3.6.ds1-13etch10+b1; lenny: 2.7-18lenny6; lenny-security: 2.7-18lenny7; squeeze-security: 2.11.2-6+squeeze1; squeeze: 2.11.2-7; sid: 2.11.2-8
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17:42<retrospectacus>sounds like you are reasonably uptodate... what is the problem you are having?
17:43<retrospectacus>if your /var is full apt-get clean should fix that up
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17:43<rss>AzaToth: what retrospectacus said
17:43<AzaToth>if I use APT::Immediate-Configure=no, is there risk for corruptions then?
17:43<AzaToth>rss: well, I need to fill it again to be able to upgrade
17:44<retrospectacus>you can probably delete other stuff like archived logs in /var/log
17:44<retrospectacus>and whatever's in /var/tmp
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17:44<AzaToth>35M wont do much
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17:45<gegtegetthbtd>Hi all
17:45<gegtegetthbtd>I just wonder if a bug that is pending to be fixed in Ubuntu has been fixed in debian already
17:45-!-datacrusher [~carlos@200.145.122.198] has quit [Quit: eject]
17:46<cthuluh>see bugs.debian.org
17:46<bartm>gegtegetthbtd, which bug in which package?
17:46<gegtegetthbtd>cthuluh, I will follow your call
17:46<gegtegetthbtd>bartm, the kernel
17:46-!-mentor [~mentor@217.28.0.111] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:46<gegtegetthbtd>hardware related, ubuntu-bug 676644
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17:47<rss>AzaToth: apt-get clean will flush your /var/cache/apt/archives directory
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17:48<AzaToth>rss: wont it fill up to 1.3GB then if I tries an apt-get upgrade?
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17:49<retrospectacus>AzaToth: sounds like your options are 1) upgrade a small bit at a time, cleaning /var as you go 2) free up space in /var or increase its size 3) reinstall
17:50<rss>AzaToth: that would depend on the updates that you need. unless you clean the downloads are cached and remain in the cache
17:50<AzaToth>ok
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17:53<rss>AzaToth: the cache is usefull. I use the sid release and if sid breaks i kan reinstall the older not broken package using dpkg -i /<cachedir>/<package.olderversion>.deb
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17:53<AzaToth>I'll do the "sudo apt-get install xorg* --only-upgrade" dance then
17:53<AzaToth>rss: I know
17:53<AzaToth>I've broken my system many times
17:54<gegtegetthbtd>hmm, I can't find any bugreports concerning the issue using merkel.debian.org and googlegroups. So I suppose the issue is not fixed in stable/testing and it would be fixed if the mainstream kernel fix trickles down to debian (unless someone reports te issue)
17:54<AzaToth>rss: it's an old p4 here, and the partition layout I did isn't really good
17:55<AzaToth>I've though moving them to an new hard drive I've got, but I'm uncertain if I'll bork the whole system
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17:56<rss>AzaToth: you could mount a usb disk partition for /var/cache/apt
17:56<AzaToth>true
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17:56<rss>AzaToth: that would give you room
17:56<rss>AzaToth: room = space
17:57<AzaToth>I'm always out of room under /usr as well
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17:57<AzaToth>and I was stupid to give / only 1GB
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17:58<retrospectacus>lesson: don't be stingey with the gigabitches
17:58<AzaToth>sadly I'm afraid of touching the two original harddrives, as they've allready broke a couple of years ago
17:59-!-mode/#debian [+l 445] by debhelper
17:59<AzaToth>have been some times changes to certain files never reflected after reboot
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18:06<rss>AzaToth: Add a usb drive. partition it with some large patitions. Use the FS you prefer. I use jfs myself. mount a partion somewhere /<mountpoint>. copy current /var to /<mountpoint>. remount the copied the /<mountpoint> as /var and enjoy the extra space.
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18:16<rss>guys, it is late her. i am going to bed. greets.
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18:55<zlatan>hi everyone
18:55<retrospectacus>herro
18:55<zlatan>how can one turn off GTK windows decorator in compiz
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18:56<y6>HELLO ALL! Just installed Debian and StumpWM. I will idle here, hoping to contribute!
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18:57<retrospectacus>zlatan: you can set the decorator in the "Window Decoration" section of CCSM
18:58<y6>g
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19:30<prock>I want to install LILO on a fresh harddrive, but not using the debian installer
19:30<prock>Just command line only
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19:31<prock>I keep getting fatal: can't put the boot sector on the logical partition 0x0013 , what does that mean?
19:32<prock>When tring to install LILO
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19:36<cthuluh>prock: try to specify the boot partition with -b
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19:47<prock>Talks about tring to map files
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19:48<prock>I'm on a live cd that has the LILO command, so can u give me a full example of all it's settings
19:48<prock>What's the most common command line used to install LILO
19:49<prock>Man LILO not helping
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19:54<prock>Well I just used -M /dev/sda and it seam to work, and when I reboot I get No boot signature in partition
19:54<prock>With LILO
19:57<bst>prock: http://wiki.debian.org/LILO
19:58<XayOn>lilo? Oo
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19:59<XayOn>is that still being used?
20:00<Osiris_X>how do I add to the window-manager list in fusion-icon?
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20:19<student>HI
20:19<retrospectacus>aaaagh!!
20:19-!-_julian [~quassel@hmbg-4d06d871.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #debian
20:19<student>?
20:19<retrospectacus>oh it's just you
20:20<ChuckThePuck>Hey guys I have a tape drive in my computer. I know TAR is the program to use but how do I knko wthe device
20:20<retrospectacus>you scared me for a minute
20:20<student>i am taiwan
20:20<student>@@
20:21<retrospectacus>sweet. I am Canada. Cower before my mighty size!
20:21<retrospectacus>puny Taiwan
20:21<dvs>da
20:21<student>哈囉!
20:21<retrospectacus>hey no profanity here
20:22<student>@@???
20:22-!-eknahm [~eknahm@c-75-69-103-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #debian
20:22<ChuckThePuck>student: ask your question
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20:23<retrospectacus>ChuckThePuck: the simplest answer is "mount" but you probably have more to do
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20:23<student>我聽不懂英文-.-
20:24<student>i no no no English
20:24<retrospectacus>!tw
20:24<dpkg>tw is, like, an abbreviation of Taiwan
20:24<retrospectacus>dpkg, thanks
20:24<dpkg>retrospectacus: my pleasure
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20:26<student>too me!!
20:27<ChuckThePuck>student: google a tw Debian irc channel. This is all english
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20:27<student>0.0
20:27<student>Where again?
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20:29<student>@@
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20:32<RoDuS>hello, any help a newb?
20:32<retrospectacus>!ask
20:32<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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20:34<RoDuS>ok, i have an arm11 telechips 9802 mother boarded hsg-x5a android touch pad, the more i use android the less i like it, is there a tutorial on installing debian-arm on the device, or a multi-boot debian-droid like the smartq touchpad?
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20:34<JZandi>i have poblem
20:35<JZandi>could i say it?
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20:36<RoDuS>i went to debian-arm channel but had no luck with a reply
20:36<RoDuS>!ask
20:36<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
20:36<RoDuS>jzandi, ask away, dunno if youll get a reply...
20:37<JZandi>what is this work properly?
20:37<RoDuS><--- newb, and lost
20:37<JZandi>sudo dpkg -i install
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20:50<RoDuS>no one huh?
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20:53<sney>RoDuS: it's a good question, but if there's no howto on wiki.debian.org then an official one probably doesn't exist
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20:53<sney>my advice to you would be to sit around in the debian-arm channel and wait for them to become active, then talk to them about your project
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20:54<RoDuS>thank you very much
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21:15<john>hey folks, how do I change the default OS to windows (for my wife!!!)
21:19<timon>did you install it already?
21:19<ChuckThePuck>john: I know it used to be in the /boot/grub/menu.lst
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21:22<john__>hello timon. Installed as Sidux and just updated
21:23<timon>so...?
21:23<john__>can't find menu.lst anywhere. Wonder if it has been changed
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21:25<RoDuS><--- newb, but i thionk its under \root\?
21:25<RoDuS>root\menu.lst?
21:25<john__>not on my box
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21:28<Arrowmaster>its either menu.lst somewhere in /boot or grub.cfg somewhere in /etc
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21:29<Arrowmaster>i think /boot/grub/menu.lst or /etc/grub/grub.cfg
21:29<RoDuS>yea, that sounds better
21:29<RoDuS>menu.lst
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21:31<john__>found etc/grub/grub.cfg. do I edit it directly or run a script?
21:31<RoDuS>edit
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21:31<RoDuS>yo, its yoshio
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22:13<aitiba>aupa
22:14<aitiba>se que es una pregunta un poco offtopic pero sabeis si existen lectores de codigos qr sin tener acceso a internet? es posible eso?
22:14<bst>!es
22:14<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
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22:17<aitiba>sorry
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22:33<volstern>hi
22:33<volstern>i downloaded a tar pkg
22:34<volstern>but im unable to untar it, its a locked file, even as root in the terminal i'm unable to untar it, it keeps saying cannot open file: no such file or directory
22:34<volstern>any hints? thanks
22:35<sney>what is the exact command you're running
22:35<volstern>tar -c /usr/share/jin/ -zxvf filename.tar/gz
22:35<sney>ok
22:35<volstern>-C acutally
22:36<sney>you used the big C?
22:36<volstern>yes
22:36<sney>ok, well I've always swapped the parts, ie tar zxf foo.tar.gz -C /bar
22:36<sney>I'm not sure if that makes a difference though
22:36<volstern>the weirdest thing is this is my 3rd download, the first one i used using wget and wget downloaded it i dont know where, i searched for the file but in vain, used find/locate, search files, etc and nothing
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22:37<sney>actually to start, make sure tar understands the archive - do tar tzf file.tar.gz
22:38<sney>that won't extract, it'll just give you a list of what's in it
22:38-!-DrDogwelder [~drdogweld@wl69-216.lcom.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:38<volstern>so i downloaded it the second time using the archive manager and it was downloaded to /tmp/ . i tried extracting it then using the archive manager and it wouldnt let me, kept saying permission denied. ultimately the file disappeared in thin air (_LITERALLY_)and in place of that in /tmp i see a /tmp/.XO-lock. I didnt have the /.X0-lock before the download
22:40<volstern>tar tzf file.tar.gz gives me an error and says the usual "cannot open: no such file or directory
22:41<sney>hmm
22:41<jester45> /tmp/ is for temporary files. they are supposed to be deleted... maybe download into your ~/ and try it
22:41<jester45>do you have read permissions on the directory?
22:41<jester45>and file
22:42<volstern>im using it as a user now
22:42<volstern>which is why i decided to do it from the terminal as root
22:44<volstern>just so you know i deleted the /tmp/.XO-lock file, it wasnt supposed to be there, i never had it there until this tar issue showed up.
22:45<volstern>any ideas/
22:47-!-nutterpc_ is now known as nutterpc
22:50<volstern>this is interesting, i exracted it to the desktop and it did
22:51<volstern>how do i move the dir to /usr/share/jin/ ?
22:51<jester45># mv ~/Desktop/dir/ /usr/share/jin
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22:53<struhevol>how can i make ubuntu load faster i dual boot from win 7 and ubuntu but ubuntu takes like 5 mins to boot
22:53<struhevol>is there something wrong
22:53<struhevol>or thats normal
22:53-!-ml|_ [~ml@c-98-254-99-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #debian
22:53<volstern>rgreat mv cannot stat jin2.14.1 No such file or directory
22:53<volstern>im sorry its a folder
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22:55<s414414>
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22:55<jester45>!ubuntu
22:55<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it is unlikely to live up to Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu (irc.freenode.net) instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian>.
22:56<s414414>Chinese language chat rooms where
22:56<s414414>Chinese language chat rooms where?
22:56<dondelelcaro>!zh
22:56<dpkg>i guess cn is China, or for help in chinese please join irc.oftc.net #debian-zh, Please use UTF-8, for IRC help see http://tinyurl.com/8yrj9 | Qt/KDE è¿æ¸¡æå¼å§ï¼è¯¦æ请é读
22:56<volstern>any ideas
22:56<jester45>if you installed using wubi it will take longer. thats all i will say
22:57<s414414>Chinese language chat rooms where?
22:57<struhevol>join #ubuntu
22:57<jester45>volstern: does that file have weird characters that need to be escaped
22:57<timon>s414414: irc://irc.oftc.net #debian-zh
22:57<s414414>Thank you
22:57<volstern>jester45: no
22:58<volstern>its just called jin-2.14.1
22:58<jester45>struhevol: you need to change servers to irc.freenode.net then /join #ubuntu
22:58<timon>welcome
22:58<volstern>that's the extracted file, i even copied the file name from properties and still doesn't do it
22:58<volstern>i even tried mv /desktop/jin-2.14.1 /usr/share/jin
22:59<volstern>keeps saying no such file or directory
22:59<jester45>so mv ./jin-2.14.1 /usr/share/jin/ gives that error ?
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22:59<jester45>do you need to create /usr/share/jin/?
23:00<volstern>yes
23:00<volstern>same error
23:00<jester45>mkdir /usr/share/jin
23:00<volstern>i did create a /jin directory
23:00<acu_>I have installed debian squeeze and other stuff skolinux and lxde - and now everything is kind of too much - I want to remove and revert to a clean gnome original installation - how can I do that ?
23:00<volstern>cannot create directory, file exists
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23:01<jester45>ok volstern are you in the directory that contains the jin-2.14.1 file? if not id just give it the full path to the file
23:03<volstern>thats on the desktop, so yes
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23:04<volstern>if i try to drag itr and drop it in /usr/share/jin it says permission denied
23:04<jester45>you have to be root to write in /usr/share
23:04<volstern>i am root in the erminal
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23:05<volstern>i just tried mv and it didnt do it.
23:05<jester45>the desktop does not equal your home (~/). in most cases the desktop = ~/Desktop
23:06<jester45>so if its on your desktop you would do #mv ~/Desktop/jin-2.14.1 /usr/share/jin
23:06<jester45>well wait
23:07<volstern>its in /home/volstern/desktop
23:07<jester45>mv /home/username/Desktop/jin-2.14.1 /usr/share/jin . i forgot you have to run as root so ~/ wouldnt be the right place
23:07<jester45>not a big d?
23:08<volstern>tried alreadyphew
23:08<volstern>thanks!
23:08<volstern>it was small d
23:08<volstern>thanks a lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
23:08<volstern>thanks again jester45
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23:09<jester45>acu_ your goign to have to remove packages untill your back to a clean gnome.
23:11<bst>acu_: try debfoster - this help you to maintain a clean Debian install
23:11<acu_>thanks guys
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23:12<jester45>you could look at the dependices of gnome-core to see what you need to keep (along with system packages) just be careful of what you remove. and if you dont know what it does id leave it
23:12<acu_>two more questions - is any way to play BluRay on Linux ? and Second_ how can you make the sound be heard through HDMI connection (of course windows works) -
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23:13<jester45>i think mplayer and/or vlc support bluray. i have no idea about HDMI
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23:20<acu_>let me try again - I tried vlc - did not work
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23:21<sney>blu-ray and hdmi both have annoying drm features. so you may need extra stuff to make them work. perhaps stuff from www.debian-multimedia.org.
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23:22<damentz>has anyone here had good experience setting up ssh to be passwordless?
23:26<damentz>i tried setting up gitolite, but it's not letting me log in passwordless
23:26<damentz>i just tried a normal user and it works fine
23:26<nevyn>passwordless you mean using keys?
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23:26<damentz>ya
23:27<damentz>i've been reading all over google and can't figure out why i can't login passwordless
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23:31<jester45> ssh-keygen -t rsa ; ssh-copy-id -i ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub username@remotemachine
23:31<damentz>oh wait, i just figured out
23:32<jester45>generates it. if you save to ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub ssh-copy-id will setup the remote machine for you
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23:33<jester45>then you can logout of remotemachine and log back in with just ssh remotemachine (user@remotemachine if your logging in as a different user)
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23:36<nevyn>-t dsa
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23:37<damentz>command="/usr/share/gitolite/gl-auth-command damentz",no-port-forwarding,no-X11-forwarding,no-agent-forwarding,no-pty
23:38<damentz>does anything look wrong to you guys here?
23:38<damentz>right afterwards is the pub key
23:38<damentz>but if i take this out, authorization works
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23:39-!-mode/#debian [+l 412] by debhelper
23:39<jordanm>damentz: I would recommend #git
23:39<jordanm>,versions gitolite
23:39<judd>Package gitolite on i386 -- lenny-backports: 1.5.4-2~bpo50+1; sid: 1.5.4-2; squeeze: 1.5.4-2
23:39<jordanm>damentz: on irc.freenode.net
23:39<damentz>hmm ok
23:42<nevyn>damentz: no-pty is a problem.
23:43*jordanm failed to read scrollback
23:44<nevyn>jordanm: :)
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23:45<acu_>so it seem no Blu-Ray in Linux
23:45<sney>!bluray
23:45<dpkg>[blu-ray disc] an optical disc storage medium (capacity of 25GB per layer). The Debian CD team produce Blu-ray Disc images of <Lenny> and weekly <Squeeze> builds for i386, amd64 and source architectures, available via _jigdo only_. Ask me about <jigdo>, <install lenny> and <weekly builds> (.jigdo files are within "jigdo-bd" directories of {i386,amd64,source}). https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/BluRayAndHDDVD
23:45<sney>read the link at the end
23:45<acu_>sney: I always start at the end :)
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23:47<damentz>nevyn, well this is from an automated login
23:47<damentz>no-pty should not let anyone login and get a shell to do something with
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23:51<acu_>sney: why to boicot Blu-Ray ? that was a link? The best is not to use computers at all - humankind have spent 50K years
23:52-!-jsubl2 [~jsubl2@99-67-114-132.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #debian
23:52<sney>huh?
23:52<sney>it offers some suggestions for making it work. I don't endorse any computer political crap
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23:56<acu_>sney: thanks :) be light - I am beyond this too - it seem that linux community has not yet enough clout to determine manufacturers to create open standards - but this will come as soon as the user base is big enough - Ubuntu has done a lot in this direction
23:57<acu_>power to the people
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23:59<nevyn>damentz: get it working.. then secure it.
---Logclosed Sat Jan 15 00:00:28 2011