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#debian IRC Logs for 2011-02-04

---Logopened Fri Feb 04 00:00:24 2011
---Daychanged Fri Feb 04 2011
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00:14<chealer>k-man: if you don't want to do it already...
00:15<IchibanHashi>Okay, stopping sendmail, deleting them from /var/spool/mqueue and restarting sendmail seems to have worked.
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00:16<k-man>chealer: actually i just checked and my sources.list was already set to squeeze
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00:31<rchaic>I have an odd problem and don't know where to report it / which package to file the bug against. If you look at - that's what I get both with gtk and qt4 text windows quite often. I determined that it's somehow relatex to graphics acceleration since disabling the glx/dri modules in xorg.conf made the problem disappear. Any idea what I could try downgrading to narrow this down? (libgl1* is not the problem)
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00:31<sney>swap in a known good graphics accelerator, for one
00:32<rchaic>you mean I should try disabling swap?
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00:33<sney>I mean you should change out your video card, in order to rule out a hardware problem.
00:34<sney>and the package to file a bug/check for an existing bug would be the xserver-xorg-video-* package relevant to your hw
00:34<rchaic>Well, it's a laptop - so it's a bit hard to swap the graphic card. Plus I did not have the problem for two years. So...
00:34<sney>ah yes, one of my favorites as a sysadmin. "I can't believe it's broken, it was fine yesterday"
00:35<sney>check the xserver-xorg-video- package's bug tracker page, then
00:35<rchaic>thanks. somehow I did not think of downgrading the video driver. brb. :-)
00:39<rchaic>ah, it's reported. #571956. thanks again. :-)
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02:46<rtheys>Is there a way to log "authenticated mount request" messages on an NFSv4 server, like it does for NFS 3? The NFS4 server doesn't seem to log anything, not even on rejected connections
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02:55<cmot>Anybody has an idea why pyzor works when called directly but fails when called from spamass-milter?
02:55<cmot> # su - spamass-milter
02:55<cmot># pyzor check < mail
02:56<cmot>says OK
02:56<cmot>but log from spamass-milter says "pyzor: check timed out after 3.5 seconds"
02:57<cmot>(and pyzor check called manually is almost immediate, nowhere close to 3.5s, so it's not a timeout)
02:58<cmot>hmm. not every time, it seems
02:59<cmot>but often enough that I'm annoyed by all the "
02:59<cmot>pyzor: [1746] error: TERMINATED, signal 1
02:59<cmot>5 (000f)
02:59<cmot>" in the logs
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03:11<jm_>signal 1 is SIGHUP
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03:17<cmot>jm_: signal 15, not the stupid linebreak by me not copy/pasting from the log correctly.
03:17<cmot>sorry bout that
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03:19<jm_>cmot: ok, that probably means it thought the tool wasn't finished and sent it SIGTERM I guess
03:19<cmot>yes, but why? I get this quite often , and I've tried calling pyzor manually a few times
03:20<cmot>and calling it manually, it never takes as long as even one second
03:20<jm_>hard to say, maybe it doesn't detect that child process has exited, or maybe it really didn't exit
03:20<cmot>(I call it as spamass-milter user in both cases)
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03:38<acu>how can I remove and install everything - I mean gnome and kde apt-get remove purge ?
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03:38<alyosha>omg končno
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03:45<jm_>acu: try /msg dpkg remove gnome
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04:24<dutchfish>hi, somehow an rsync session got defunct, i was unable to kill it, a shutdown -h now timed out with a warning waiting for more the 120 seconds. How to debug this? (squeeze/x86_64). i was using stock 2.6.32-5-amd64 and xfs as fs. This is my syslog with the kernelmessages
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05:04<rtheys>Uptime: 9 days, 23 hours and 8 minutes
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05:26<bino>bom dia
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05:27<themill>!ubuntu-br bino
05:27<dpkg>bino: Este canal e para suportar o Debian em Ingles. Por favor, /server depois /join #ubuntu-br.
05:27<bino>good morning.
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05:35<classical>hello guys we have a web hosting there is installed php4 and 5 on the server someone is using php5 and others php4. Now i want a user list who are using php4 an php5 from where can i get this information ?
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05:38<juhaj>Good morning. Quite silent it is.
05:41<themill>classical: you mean you would like something more sophisticated than "uninstall php4 and see who complains"?
05:44<classical>themill, i need to know who uses which version of php on the server
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05:44<classical>coz am planning to move users who use php5 version to php5 but as cgi and with suexec
05:45<themill>classical: you probably should be moving php4 users to php5 too... it hasn't received any security updates for years and I bet it needs them...
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05:46<classical>themill, i know but they have scripts thats works only on php4
05:47<daemonkeeper>haha, that's a good reason not to upgrade "because people use scripts that haven't been maintained since 5+ years"
05:48<themill>classical: the scripts are probably also desperately in need of fixing as well. If you've got stuff that doesn't work with php5, that means it's old and crufty crap and I'd think twice about allowing it on my machines...
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05:52<themill>classical: in any case, we can't tell you how to get a list of php4 vs php5 users without you telling us how you've got both php4 and php5 on the machine at the same time and how you've configured users to use the different versions.
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06:05<vig>hi, why can't I install "an image viewer and browser" - IT want remove GNOME
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06:08<esalazionehg>hi vig. i know that gthumb is no long the gnome default image viewer, maybe it's some trouble with the gnome metapackage
06:08<vig>maybe? ))
06:08<vig>why don't developers fix it
06:08<esalazionehg>i'm here to ask help like you ;)
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06:10<vig>gthumb is better than EOG
06:10<esalazionehg>i've seen that gthumb is no longer a dependency from 1 or 2 week, maybe they're fixing it in these days :)
06:11<esalazionehg>i prefer gthumg too [i use mirage as image viewer and gthumg to manage photo import]
06:11<streuner>dpkg, info geeqie
06:11<esalazionehg>now the default is shotwell
06:11<dpkg>geeqie: (image viewer using GTK+), section graphics, is optional. Version: 1:1.0-7 (sid), Packaged size: 596 kB, Installed size: 1400 kB
06:12<streuner>vig: geeqie ist just fine, IMHO :-)
06:12<esalazionehg>dpkg, info mirage
06:12<dpkg>mirage: (fast and simple GTK+ image viewer), section graphics, is extra. Version: (sid), Packaged size: 111 kB, Installed size: 640 kB
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06:12<esalazionehg>"package size: 111 kB" ;)
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06:14<babilen>640 kB :) enough for (at least) an image viewer
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06:14<vig><esalazionehg> now the default is shotwel, NO EOG
06:14<vig>EOG is def
06:14<babilen>vig: Which version of Debian do you use? Could you paste the output of the "aptitude install gthumb" run to please?
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06:15<esalazionehg>vig: yes, as i said 3 minute ago :P
06:16<esalazionehg>i have some trouble with the internal mic on an eeepc 1001px. the mic is not working at all. i tried a lot of workaround and i asked on #debian-eeepc but nothing worked. i read someone succeded in having the built-in mic working, so.... do you have some ideas?
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06:17<esalazionehg>i'm running squeeze with kernel 2.6.37-trunk-686, no snd-hda-intel model forced ....
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06:19<vig>babilen, squeeze. tnx; aptitude is OK, synaptic not
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06:19<babilen>vig: well, ok.
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06:20<babilen>esalazionehg: I would run;a=blob_plain;f=utils/ and take it to #alsa on if so many people have already tried their luck. I don't want to bore you with questions like: "Have you unmuted the microphone?" and such
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06:23<esalazionehg>babilen: i already asked on #alsa, no one answered my question... maybe i'll retry
06:23<vig>2.6.32 is default
06:23<vig>in squeeze
06:26<ottoshmidt>(How)Can I choose a sound device (engine) in totem?
06:26<ottoshmidt>Movie Player
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06:26<ottoshmidt>and in rhythmbox as well
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06:30<esalazionehg1>ottoshmidt: have you already controlled if the correct sound device is selected in system->preferences->audio ?
06:31<esalazionehg1>ottoshmidt: or in "alsamixer" run in a terminal?
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06:33<ottoshmidt>system->preferences->sound shows the device I need
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06:33<ottoshmidt>but totem and rhythmbox play in the other
06:34<ottoshmidt>actually this is a default sound card that they choose but can I change
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06:37<esalazionehg1> this device set as primary sound device?
06:37<jm_>change the default sound card?
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06:51<esalazionehg1> seems that the old alsa configuration is not correctly shows i have "snd-hda-intel model=lifebook" while i haven't it...
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08:04<Lantizia>Hey... you know how we've had Debian 5.0 then 5.0.1, 5.0.2, 5.0.3, 5.0.4, etc... I always thought that was just the discs remastered with more upto date packages... but since Debian itself gets rebranded with the new version when you upgrade - is something more going on?
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08:05<dpkg>Deutschsprachige Hilfe bekommt ihr in (auf, oder - German speaking users please go to (on, or
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08:27<EvilTwin>Lantizia, I think those updates are just more up to date packages in lenny
08:28<EvilTwin>but when 6.0 is out there will be other big changes
08:30<dpkg>Debian GNU/Linux 5.0.8 was released on January 22nd, 2011. This update corrects security problems within the <stable> release, along with adjustments for serious problems. . To upgrade, ask me about <point release>.
08:30<themill>Lantizia: ^^ you can see the entire changelog there
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08:31<Lantizia>EvilTwin, themill, right I get that but what I mean is what inside debian itself (what package) actually controls updating the version number?
08:31<Lantizia>what alters the identity of debian's versioning after an upgrade
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08:32<themill>Lantizia: you might like to install apt-listchanges, then you'd see: base-files (5lenny9) stable; urgency=low * Bump version in /etc/debian_version to "5.0.8".
08:32<Lantizia>base-files ok
08:33<themill>(also, dlocate /etc/debian_version; dpkg -S /etc/debian_version)
08:33<Lantizia>but if you just update base-files and don't update the other packages - your surely not on 5.0.8
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08:34<themill>sure. Sanity and honesty are assumed here. You could edit that file to read 6.0 but that wouldn't give you squeeze.
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08:35<Lantizia>right but if the difference between 5.0.7 and 5.0.8 are all the packages (including base-files) that have been altered between two dates... but you only update base-files which will make Debian think it is 5.0.8 you don't actually have 5.0.8 until you upgrade your whole system
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08:36<Lantizia>So I guess what I'm saying is... why label this as a Debian version number... why not label this as a base-files version number?
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08:36<Lantizia>And the ISO's themselves can just have a remastered version number (i.e. we we-made these images on X date)
08:36<EvilTwin>well then i guess the version is linked to the base files
08:36<Lantizia>EvilTwin, prove it :P
08:37<kamran>can anyone tell me, where I am????
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08:37<Lantizia>kamran, Earth, the 3rd planet.
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08:37<themill>kamran: you look like you want #ubuntu on
08:37<EvilTwin>rik# cat /etc/debian_version
08:38<EvilTwin>rik# apt-get install base-files
08:38<Lantizia>EvilTwin, your point?
08:38<EvilTwin>rik# cat /etc/debian_version
08:38<Lantizia>I'm saying that should be /etc/base-files_version
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08:38<themill>Lantizia: now you're just overengineering things.
08:39<Lantizia>themill, hey I seriously don't think I am... sure debian packages are either bottled in one release or another... but I don't think there are any real sub-releases here... just base-files changing a version number to match the ISO's being remade
08:39<tornow>a bit late, but check here:
08:39<Lantizia>which seems really silly - unless there is something more to it
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08:40<themill>Lantizia: a point release has a different set of criteria to a security update or a new stable release.
08:40<Lantizia>themill, but a point release is _still_ just packages updated
08:40<Lantizia>and if you don't update all packages - you can infer that the OS installed has gone up by a point release just base base-files did
08:40<themill>Lantizia: perhaps you'd like to argue with /dev/null. As usual, you seem to be on irc solely to argue and I'm bored.
08:41<Lantizia>*just because base-files did
08:41<Lantizia>themill, well am I on the nose with this one or not or am I missing something?
08:41<@Ganneff>you miss importance
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08:42<Lantizia>Ganneff, ?
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08:45<Lantizia>*you can't infer
08:45<Lantizia>(again lol) and if you don't update all packages - you can't infer that the OS installed has gone up by a point release just because base-files did
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08:48<@Ganneff>who the fuck should care? if you do partial updates you ar eon your own.
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08:50<Lantizia>sure i agree
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08:51<Lantizia>but my point is why reversion debian at all!? i mean if say lenny's next point release 5.0.9 has exactly the same base-files package as 5.0.8 (because nothing needs to change)... then base-files is being edited for no reason
08:53<Lantizia>i.e. point releases just become mini drives to fix stuff, and the ISO's get a timestamp and refreshed regularly... and as far as everyone is concerned there is just a major version number
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08:53<classical>i have just installed new google-chrome 9 but when i clic Chrome's icon on my gnome panel it still opens the old version of chrome after that i changed command inside the Chrome's icon to /usr/bin/google-chrome till there was different path /opt/google/chrome/google-chrome but now it still opens a old one
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08:53<classical>btw when i type in terminal google-chrome or path /usr/bin/google-chrome it is opening a new version of chrome
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08:54<Lantizia>classical, you realise chrome isn't in debian right?
08:54<munga>hello. how can I convince apt-get to ignore this error : E: Release file expired, ignoring (invalid since 7d 23h 35min 57s) ?
08:55<classical>Lantizia, so ?
08:55<Lantizia>so no one here has packaged it - it could be doing anything for all we know
08:56<themill>,versions chromium-browser
08:56<judd>Package chromium-browser on i386 -- squeeze: 6.0.472.63~r59945-5; experimental: 9.0.597.45~r70550-1; sid: 9.0.597.83~r72435-1
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08:56<Lantizia>that we can support :P
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08:58<Lantizia>themill, I'm going to assume from your silence that things could be done the way I've outlined - but just isn't out of convention
08:58<classical>i fix it
08:58<padski>chromium-browser ?
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08:59<themill>Lantizia: care factor 0 on my part. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill. It's a useful indication for a box that has been kept up to date and where the admin is playing fair. It can be forged by the local admin so can't be relied on for anything too carefully.
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09:00<munga>and the answer is : Acquire::Check-Valid-Until=false
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09:00<Lantizia>themill, wouldn't a more useful indication be a timestamp saying when the last full upgrade was ran successfully?
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09:00<Lantizia>just an idea! not criticising!
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09:40<m6mmix>Hello, can anyone tell me how do i do the following. I have a multiline variable and i need to loop it line by line. right now i'm using for i in "$var"; do but it takes the whole variable as one line, if i remove the " then i gives one row at a time
09:40<@Ganneff>set IFS to fit your scheme
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09:46<m6mmix>Thank Ganneff: i'll look into it
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09:53<m6mmix>It doesn't seem to be helping me. i checked that my rows end with $ using cat -vte key after the echo. i defined IFS=$'$' but it's still not splitting it up
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09:58<m6mmix>ty, got it now
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10:44<fourD>hello people, does somebody know on what debian lenny CD the program "audacity" is ?
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10:45<themill>!cd contents
10:45<dpkg>To find out what is on what disk, examine the package lists within the list-{cd,dvd} subdirectories for the relevant architecture at (e.g.
10:45<fourD>cool , thank you , themill
10:45<nvz>this may sound like a crazy question but is there any way I can use PXE to boot a debian install on my hard drive? This laptop REFUSES to boot ANYTHING but PXE, did a debian install to the HD that way, even flashed the bios via PXE, it still will not boot USB, SD Card, HDD, CD, nothing..
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10:47<OdyX>nvz: you need a second machine with a PXE server, with a debian-installer PXE image setup correctly, but yes, definitely yes.
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10:48<nvz>OdyX: I have that, its how I installed, but I don't know how to get into that installed system from the PXE
10:48<OdyX>PXE is for network boot, so you have to find a way for your laptop to boot on HDD…
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10:50<fourD>have a nice day people
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10:52<nvz>OdyX: yeah well two of use spent over 10hrs yesterday exausting our knowledge and google's trying to solve this
10:53<nvz>OdyX: I flashed the BIOS over PXE ffs, and it still won't boot anything but PXE
10:53<OdyX>nvz: eh bad…
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10:54<nvz>OdyX: yeah, its crazy
10:54<jhutchins_lt>could be a controller problem.
10:54<jhutchins_lt>You could try re-flashing it.
10:55<nvz>jhutchins_lt: the disk controller?
10:55<jhutchins_lt>re-flashing the bios
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10:55<jhutchins_lt>I'm thinking that the common point of ide & USB is the I/O controller.
10:55<nvz>jhutchins_lt: flashed it last night twice using the toshiba flash floppy image via PXE..
10:55<nvz>jhutchins_lt: right its the southbridge..
10:56<jhutchins_lt>nvz: Time to think of sending it to Toshiba
10:56<nvz>jhutchins_lt: well we explored those options too.. its out of warrenty and the cheapest toshiba certified Mobo is nearly $200, you can get a new laptop for what a Mobo costs
10:57<nvz>jhutchins_lt: I'm just wondering can I get the fully installed debian on the HDD I installed via PXE to boot via PXE.. cause I can probably do more diagnostics with a full OS running on it
10:57<jhutchins_lt>Yeah, mine needs $50 for hinges and a new hard drive, it's worth about $50.
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10:57<jhutchins_lt>Got a very nice Acer One for $200.
10:57<nvz>jhutchins_lt: this thinkpad I'm on needs about $50 for a new screw kit and cdrw, but thats not too shabby.. a new mobo on the other hand for $200-$400 is not worth it
10:57<jhutchins_lt>Refurb @ MicroCenter
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10:58<jhutchins_lt>Yeah, for that much you can probably get something new and just as powerful.
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11:02<Emery>If i where to write a book on the basics of debian / getting started. which topics might be best to cover
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11:03<brotozoan>Why are you planning on writing a book?
11:03<brotozoan>Learning experience?
11:05<jmarsden>Emery: First decide who you are writing for -- windows users migrating who want pretty desktops? Or Solaris admins ... different audiences need different "getting started" topics :)
11:05<brotozoan>And different scopes demand different approaches.
11:06<brotozoan>If you're looking for a "read this and you can do basic sys admin tasks via CLI," then you're basically just writing paragraphs about built-in scripts.
11:06<vig>russians here?
11:06<citizen666_>hmm seem not
11:07<citizen666_>yhea you absolutly i was asking the bot about debian russian channel
11:07<citizen666_>seem not
11:07<dpkg>Russian speakers, please use (Pogalujsta, zajdite na) (Pazhaluista, zahodite na) #debian-russian @ or use English here.
11:07<vig>bot is broken XD
11:07<citizen666_>a there it is
11:07<citizen666_>just a bit laggy
11:07<devil>not laggy at all, no
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11:07<vig>ok, I prefer english speaking
11:08<citizen666_>devil i used the wrong command ?
11:08<devil>citizen666_: yep, its !ru
11:08<citizen666_>i see ty :)
11:08<citizen666_>was not so far
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11:08<devil>bots are picky
11:09<citizen666_>picky ?
11:09<Emery>jmarsden, i'm going to be writing for first time linux users .. so i guess users migrating from windows.
11:09<brotozoan>Emery with gnome installed?
11:09<vig>gnome is cool
11:09<Emery>that's going to be a topic
11:09<Emery>installing gnome ect.
11:09<brotozoan>It's handled via install CD
11:09<vig>from sources?
11:10<Emery>my guide will start from a net install, and work from there.
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11:10<brotozoan>I'm not sure how "tick a box here" needs a topic, but hey
11:10<Emery>well no, they will only be installing a base system
11:10<brotozoan>Ah. Well, it's all based on available mirrors, so is this going to be for a website or what?
11:10<Emery>it's just for fun really
11:10<Emery>if it turns out well, i'll pass it round
11:11<brotozoan>That might be out of scope if you're concerned about teaching users how to use a text editor without a mouse.
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11:11<Emery>only reason i'm starting with netinstall/base is because i want them to learn not just tick some boxes during install
11:11<Emery>well nano, vi ect will be explained
11:12<brotozoan>Vim in itself is normally enough for people to decide "linux is hard ;_;" and quit.
11:12<Emery>i'm going to try and stay away from GUI applications.
11:12<Emery>and rather explain the inner workings
11:12<brotozoan>So, you want to write a"beginning linux for command line" book.
11:13<Emery>so it will cover quite a few topics
11:13<Emery>command line being one
11:13<brotozoan>what's the audience though?
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11:13<brotozoan>windows users? sysadmins considering linux?
11:13<Emery>first time linux users, probably migrating from windows
11:13<Emery>as alot of users do
11:13<jmarsden>This is for first time Linux users? Then start by explaining to them why they should use the command line and nano/vim/etc, when they want and expect a GUI? :)
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11:14<Emery>jmarsden, yeah i will talk alot about command line
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11:14<brotozoan>Yeah, why should they learn different syntaxes and paths for scripts when they could just use a control panel/preferences interface?
11:14<Emery>I'm hoping to work my way through beginner to more advanced
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11:14<jmarsden>"I want to write a book for first time linux users migrating from windows" and " i'm going to try and stay away from GUI applications" do not seem to be a good combination to me.
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11:14<brotozoan>Hahah yeah
11:15<brotozoan>That's a "I want another unix haters webbook"
11:15<vig>anyone goes Debian Squeeze Release Party?
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11:15<Emery>well people tend to go for ready install desktops via live cd's ect. I want to explain how installing things yourself can produce a more customized desktop
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11:16<Emery>a custom distro built around you and what you've learnt from the book
11:17<jhutchins_lt>vig: Locally where? There's one in KC.
11:17<jmarsden>Emery: Why does that approach result in a "more customized" setup that installing a GUI and then customizing it from the comfort of that GUI?
11:17<Emery>touching cmd ect.
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11:17<brotozoan>jmarsden because command line!!!!!!!
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11:17<Emery>Well it's touching command line
11:17<brotozoan>omggg it took more time = better than
11:17<Emery>I want to touch where i can
11:18<jmarsden>You can touch all of Linux, start with LFS and compiling every single program :) If you want to touch where you can :) :)
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11:18<Emery>considering i'm aiming for debian that wouldnt be suitable.
11:18<jmarsden>Do your intended readers really want to "touch where they can", if they are migrating from Windows?
11:18<brotozoan>"And in the book, I contain a referral link to purchasing the unix programming environment book on Amazon."
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11:19<Emery>Well if they don't care they don't have to read it
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11:19<brotozoan>That's not the right attitude to making documentation.
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11:19<Emery>well you wouldnt read something that didnt interest you would you
11:20<jmarsden>Then your book isn't really *for* them. Which you said it was... OK...
11:20<brotozoan>You basically just said "if I write a book that doesn't interest people, who cares, because no one should read my book"
11:20<Emery>No they dont have to read it is what i said
11:20<brotozoan>Exactly jmarsden.
11:20<Emery>Why read a book that doesnt interest you?
11:21<brotozoan>But if you're doing the funnel approach to teaching, if the reader hits a "oh man, i don't care" roadblock, he/she can't go around it
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11:21<Emery>That's why it will be splitted into chapters
11:21*jmarsden gives up... if your book does not interest the very people you decided it is for, it is not a lot of use.
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11:24<brotozoan>Since you wanted generics: text editor = resize disk/dual boot from their windows machine (enjoy writing about fighting windows7/vista into letting this happen), vim or emacs, configuring networking, startup scripts, iptables, ntp, adding users/groups, permissions, configuring samba, updating sources.list to include contrib/non-free so the user has a remote chance of liking debian
11:25<Emery>As i said if they want to learn the inner workings they will read it.
11:25<brotozoan>then from there, you need to consider the audience. do they care about a DB/webserver? is this for a programming environment? will it be multiuser? do they care enough to switch from bash?
11:25<AbyBeats>vim or emacs <whistle>
11:25<brotozoan>yeah vim, i said it ._.
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11:26*brotozoan gives up ... clearly you don't actually give a shit about what anyone says or suggests even though we're actually *trying* to help you with your idea and direction.
11:27<brotozoan>if you want to write a gritty internals book, then go for it
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11:27<brotozoan>but that's not the audience you think you're writing for
11:27<Emery>i havnt decided what exactly i'm going to be writing yet, still planning it out
11:28<brotozoan>if you want a beginners book, look at the blob of text i typed above re: topics
11:28<brotozoan>better yet, find a popular windows guide and write the debian equiv
11:29<brotozoan>that said, ubuntu is typically the gateway linux from windows
11:29<devil>Emery: the problem with writing a book for beginners is that you have to be able to think like a beginner without being one.
11:29<Emery>devil, yeah/
11:29<Emery>it's hard thinking what topics to raise and which to steer clear from
11:29<devil>i often experience it hard to do (i write stuff for linux mags)
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11:30<brotozoan>I've had to lead training several times for windows-linux converts
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11:30<brotozoan>but their jobs depended on it, so they were more of a captive audience and willing to listen to droning about vim and inodes
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11:31<devil>they were handcuffed ;)
11:31<brotozoan>And also that.
11:31<Emery>yeah it's hard deciding what to write about
11:31<brotozoan>*you WILL care about the underpinnings*
11:32<brotozoan>Emery, once you figure out what book you're actually trying to write and for whom, it will be easier
11:32<Emery>i think i will steer clear from vim ect.
11:32<Emery>Maybe write something else concerning things like that
11:32<devil>Emery: what i said about beginners was not meant towards the topics or the general road you take, but more on the style
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11:33<devil>and didactics
11:33<Emery>i think i may leave the other stuff out then
11:33<Emery>take a different approach
11:34<Emery>as brotozoan said
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11:35<brotozoan>What I'd be interested in seeing written (and I haven't seen it done correctly) is a reverse order manual. *Start* with gnome/kde and then work back down to "you can also use this more powerful method when it makes sense or when your environment requires less footprint"
11:35<Emery>i don't think me babbling on about vim and shit will be suitable really
11:35<jmarsden>Emery: Yay. So now you will write the Debian equivalent of ?
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11:36<Emery>jmarsden, you're sarcasm is getting quite boring and drole.
11:36<brotozoan>Hahha. Now in dead tree format.
11:37<brotozoan>Emery, you have to realize that we're trying to help you establish scope and you're seemingly dismissing our comments. Maybe I'll write a book on rockets for fish. Or ice cream for the lactose intolerants.
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11:38<Emery>brotozoan, i've listened to you perfectly valid comments and changed my thoughts on what i'm going to write
11:39-!-mode/#debian [+l 489] by debhelper
11:39<brotozoan>Are you thinking ebook or content for a website?
11:39<Emery>i'm thinking more ebook really
11:39<brotozoan>For general consumption?
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11:41<brotozoan>Is that how people look for information about debian? It's my feeling that debian is normally not baby's first linux and that it's more common now for people to just google for specific issues that pop up.
11:42<Emery>Well yes the idea was to simplify debian so anyone could use it for their first distro.
11:42<Emery>Lets be honest, abit of reading and you can use any distro
11:43<troulouliou>hi could anybody assist me to configure initramfs-tool to decrypt an root partition at boot . i ve encrypte my root after install but it does not boot
11:43<brotozoan>Sure, but giving openBSD to my ma will just make her not give me presents on my birthday.
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11:45<Emery>Either way i think it's a good idea to give a potential linux user an easy book to learn how to use said distro
11:45*themill suspects this conversation has been around in circles more than enough times now
11:46<devil>Emery: overall, telling people they do not need ubuntu for a start, but get going with the real thing, is an appealing idea.
11:46<Emery>Well exactly
11:47<Emery>I mean personally i find Debian to be a fantastic distro
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11:48<Emery>Why tell people.. oh use ubuntu it's and easy to use distro.. When with a small amount of reading the same is achieved with debian
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11:50<brotozoan>What advantages does debian offer over ubuntu for this user you have in mind?
11:51<UrsoBranco>hi, when packaging I want to pass to dh_install some args, but I dont want to specify the whole rules file so to ignore shlibdeps there is DEB_DH_SHLIBDEPS_ARGS_ALL, is there a DEB_DH_INSTALL or some variable like it ?
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11:52<Emery>ubuntu is pretty much bloated crap.
11:52<Emery>Debian offers a simple desktop installed from installation, with the ability to customize as you like
11:53<Emery>As for anything else i'd consider them both to have excelent hardware support
11:54<Emery>i'd consider them both easy to use distributions
11:54-!-Black_Prince [~Prince@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:55<_Alex__>Debian is also FASTER than ubuntu
11:55<Emery>Well yeah.
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11:56<_Alex__>I noticed a LARGE speed boost when i swiched from Ubuntu Netbook remix to squeeze
11:56<_Alex__>on my netbook
11:57<Emery>that's because ubuntu is full of crap
11:57<brotozoan>Are there benchmarks/numbers that would back up this claim _Alex__?
11:57<brotozoan>This is based on gnome performance or what?
11:58<_Alex__>No, but Kega fusion run's alot faster
11:58<_Alex__>and smoother
11:58<Emery>i'd of been interested to see benchmarks
11:58<brotozoan>Hahaha. Right.
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11:58<Emery>I personally find Debian to be faster
11:58<brotozoan>It feels faster and also this random software seems to run faster!!!
11:58<Emery>But that's probably due to less bloat
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11:59<_Alex__>And besides, ubuntu is bad for me becaus it uses the pulseaudio thing i hate
11:59<brotozoan>On same hardware/same drivers?
11:59<brotozoan>What "bloat" are you talking about?
11:59<brotozoan>Running processes?
11:59<brotozoan>You know you can kill processes right?
11:59<brotozoan>And/or set them to not run
12:00<_Alex__>but that is booring
12:00<brotozoan>This is essentially engineering a scenario in which you can cheerlead for the distro that you like and not a reflection of the quality of other distros.
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12:00<_Alex__>I am not a expert to know what can i stop, you'r system won't crash
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12:01*Emery sighs
12:01<brotozoan>There you go Emery. Write a book on Ubuntu for Debian users.
12:01*_Alex__ is not completly newbie but is new to the linux comunity
12:02<brotozoan>"First and primarily, make sure to tell everyone how great Debian is to product X and/or unrelated things."
12:02<brotozoan>Debian is so much better than X because Y runs better under these scenarios. And also I have it installed. And also because it's my opinion.
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12:03<Emery>brotozoan, shut up you soft twat
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12:03<Emery>typical sarky linux user.
12:03<Emery>take your head out your ass
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12:03<brotozoan>How dare I call someone on fanboyism.
12:03<dpkg>#debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
12:04<Emery>"I'll sarcasm you to death because i am obviously superior"
12:04<Emery>Lol crawl back in your hole.
12:04<brotozoan>What? No, I'm just asking him to hang out in the realms of facts and not making statements based on opinion.
12:04<brotozoan>You're absurd and childish.
12:04<Emery>No you're being a sarky moron
12:04<Emery>Your only input is sarcasm
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12:05<@Ganneff>stop talking, both of you. take it elsewhere if you want to continue
12:05<brotozoan>Sarky isn't even a word.
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12:06<Dominus>Hello. Do you assist with a programming issue regarding linux's screen command in a c++ script?
12:06<brotozoan>Anyway, before Emery acted like a rude, silly, child, I asked if anyone had any real benchmarks that would suggest Debian runs faster than Ubuntu. I'd still be interested in seeing numbers.
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12:07<Emery>Lol got to get the last word in havnt you, my god you where obvoulsy hated at school.
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12:07-!-mode/#debian [+b *!*Emery@*] by Ganneff
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12:07<brotozoan>Dominus, I'm interested. What are you seeing?
12:07<Dominus>Because I seem to have a problem. When I execute my script, it will do three things: screen -x name. echo test. screen -d. screen -x name opens up screen with name "name", but the two other commands are executed in the window that the script has been executed from.
12:07<Dominus>How can I fix that?
12:08<Dominus>and screen -x name is in the system( ) function of course :)
12:08<@Ganneff>thats not really a debian problem. you might want to try if there is a #c++ (here or on freenode)
12:08<Dominus>and so are the rest of the commands.
12:08<Dominus>Ganneff: Oh, thanks. I'll go there :)
12:08<Dominus>There's one person -.-
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12:09<Dominus>Who has been idle for 300+ hrs
12:09<Dominus>brotozoan: Is it a problem you know how to fix? :)
12:09<@Ganneff>if so, goto #debian-offtopic, not in here
12:10<brotozoan>I feel as if it's a logic flow issue and not particularly a behavior issue on behalf of screen. You're issuing screen -x name, then you're saying, after opening, do echo test, screen -d.
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12:11<brotozoan>Sorry Dominus for the off topic. But yeah, this would be in all same versions of screen and not specifically to one in Debian itself unless you're only seeing this with screen on debian.
12:11<Dominus>Yeah, I guess the program is doing exactly what it's told. Problem is just that I don't know how to make the program execute the commands inside the screen
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12:12<Dominus>Ganneff: Okay, I'll go to #debian-offtopic
12:12<brotozoan>I'll head there too as I think about it.
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12:12<ansgar>Dominus: man screen, -X
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12:33<sret>how do you enable telnet in debian
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12:34<petemc>you would have to install it, but why would you want to?
12:34<bartm>sret, I guess installing telnetd
12:35<sret>na found it
12:35<sret>oh just wondering
12:35<sret>is it not secure to use telnet?
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12:35<bartm>sret, no, telnet is plain text on the net
12:35<sret>cause one of the chess servers im on uses telnet, i use a GUI client to connect to it though
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12:36<sret>does that mean their server is not secure?
12:36<bartm>sret, net traffic can be seen by others
12:36<petemc>the data could be sniffed, but in that scenario it wouldnt matter much
12:36<sret>yeaqh i read it goes as plain text
12:36-!-rdshowalter [] has joined #debian
12:36<rdshowalter>hey whats gud
12:37<sret>ok thanks
12:37<rdshowalter>im having a lil issue that i cant figure out
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12:38<rdshowalter>when ever i try to look at any movie or clip on the internet it will only load about 10 secs then stop
12:38<rdshowalter>any ideas??
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12:40<rdshowalter>are these ppl in here or bots haha ive never used this
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12:42<jhutchins_lt>Sounds like microsoft's viewer.
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12:51<vig>ok with Party
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13:00<brotozoan><rdshowalter> when ever i try to look at any movie or clip on the internet it will only load about 10 secs then stop
13:00<retrospectacus>he left shortly after asking
13:01<brotozoan>ah, i see, thanks.
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13:48<gmvdpm>kichi wor mikei cheloi masigoiri
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13:48<babilen>!es-social gmvdpm
13:48<dpkg>gmvdpm: Este canal es de ayuda con ordenadores en Ingles. Si no necesitas ayuda con tu ordenador por favor ingresa al canal social de #debian-es con /join #debian-es-cachondeo. Tus amigos probablemente ya esten ahi.
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13:50<gmvdpm>gt5r vy
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14:00<Tookie>I am trying to connect to a Win2k8 R2 AD using libnss-ldap. I am not familiar with the ldapi:// URI. Is it correct to use ldapi instead of ldap or ldaps?
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14:21<Robjor>anyone here who's got an xfi soundcard and got the mic working?
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14:24<Tookie>anyone here ever do AD integration?
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14:29<Tookie>Robjor: X-fi is a very nice card.
14:30<dpkg>[x-fi] Sound Blaster X-Fi is a sound card series from Creative Technology. GPL-licensed vendor driver for EMU20K1/EMU20K2 chipsets (PCI-IDs 1102:0005, 1102:000b) merged in <ALSA> as snd-ctxfi, released in ALSA 1.0.21 (merged in Linux 2.6.32). "Xtreme Audio" devices (CA0106/CA0110 chipsets) are supported by the snd-ca0106 (1102:0007) and snd-hda-intel (1102:0009) drivers in ALSA versions > 1.0.16.
14:30-!-lsm5 [~lsm5@lander-asus.cse.Buffalo.EDU] has joined #debian
14:30<dpkg>hmm... ad is andorra, or active directory(MS attempt at LDAP)
14:30-!-Robin [] has joined #debian
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14:31<dpkg>[ldap] Lightweight Directory Access Protocol, a client/server protocol for accessing a directory service. It is a lightweight version of the X.500 protocol. Ask me about <openldap>. #ldap on
14:31<retrospectacus>I tried once and failed to get an x-fi card working, years ago
14:31<retrospectacus>it didn't work at all though. Sounds like you're past that
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14:31<dpkg>OpenLDAP is an open source implementation of <LDAP>. The OpenLDAP server is packaged for Debian in the slapd package. Frequently Asked Questions: . #openldap on
14:31<Robjor>Tookie: Sure if it would work...
14:31<dpkg>Please message the bot... not doing so could be considered an unnecessary flood. Instead of typing "!tell <your nick> about <topic>" you can just type "/msg dpkg <topic>". See also <selftell>. Also visit to learn how to effectively use the factoids database, or ask me about <bot help>. Browse my factoids on-line at
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14:32<Tookie>it didnt help anyways :( the bots only know so much
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14:33<Tookie>If connecting to an AD server, I need the libraries, not slapd itself?
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14:38<citizen666_>!beer me
14:38*dpkg pulls out an excellent Stone Arrogant Bastard for citizen666_
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14:39<Tookie>slapd is the server, what is the client?
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14:46<scorn>Using debian 6.0, 2.6.32-5-686 kernel. Sound not working, loading modules fails with 'hda-intel: no codecs found!'. lspci idetifies it as an 82801JI, 8086:3a3e. Any help would be appreciated.
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14:47<guero>anyone know what :failed to make ptmr7t.tfm. message is on Xen install
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14:49<mastercrack>hola gente
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14:49<mastercrack>zem/que mas men
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14:50<themill>!ubuntu-es mastercrack
14:50<dpkg>mastercrack: Ubuntu esta basado en Debian, pero no es Debian, y dificilmente tendra los estandares de Debian. Solo Debian es soportado en #debian. Por favor conectese a #ubuntu-es en Ahi recibira mas soporte.
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14:50<guero>Anyone failure with Xen
14:51<guero>failure = familiar
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14:52<scorn>Using debian 6.0, 2.6.32-5-686 kernel. Sound not working, loading modules fails with 'hda-intel: no codecs found!'. lspci idetifies it as an 82801JI, 8086:3a3e. Any help would be appreciated.
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14:53<sney>,pciid 8086:3a3e
14:53<judd>[8086:3a3e] is '82801JI (ICH10 Family) HD Audio Controller' from 'Intel Corporation' with kernel module 'snd-hda-intel' in lenny. See also and the out-of-tree 'snd-hda-intel' module.
14:53<nvz> if my system map (grub) is bad.. i.e. sda isn't where its suppose to be, how do I regenerate that system map?
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14:55<jspiros>Does anyone know how to make xinetd accept an IPv6 host as a forward= parameter?
14:55<scorn>judd: module will load, but no codecs are found, so the module appears to disable.
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14:55<jspiros>xinetd can listen on a port, and forward it to a port on another machine, but it doesn't seem to work if I give it ipv6
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15:04<ciro>qualcuno può aiutarmi per quanto riguarda un pacchetto .deb? grazie.
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15:04<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
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15:13<scorn>Using debian 6.0, 2.6.32-5-686 kernel. Sound not working, loading modules fails with 'hda-intel: no codecs found!'. lspci idetifies it as an 82801JI, 8086:3a3e. Any help would be appreciated.
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15:21<jhutchins_lt>scorn: squeeze?
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15:23<jhutchins_lt>,pciid 8086:3a3e
15:23<judd>[8086:3a3e] is '82801JI (ICH10 Family) HD Audio Controller' from 'Intel Corporation' with kernel module 'snd-hda-intel' in lenny. See also and the out-of-tree 'snd-hda-intel' module.
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15:23<jhutchins_lt>,versions snd-hda-intel
15:23<judd>Sorry, no package named 'snd-hda-intel' was found in i386.
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15:24<cahoot>it's a kernelmodule
15:24<jhutchins_lt>cahoot: Just wondering how one would persue that "out-of-tree" note.
15:25<themill>,info alsa-source
15:25<cahoot>compile alsa?
15:25<judd>Package alsa-source (sound, optional) in lenny/i386: ALSA driver sources. Version: 1.0.17.dfsg-4; Size: 2930.1k; Installed: 3060k; Homepage:
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15:26<scorn>jhutchins_It, sorry wasn't ignoring you
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15:27<scorn>yes, I think squeeze, but let me verify
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15:28<scorn>yes, squeeze/testing
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15:30<babilen>scorn: So, let me verify that: "modprobe snd-hda-intel" followed by "dmesg|tail -10" is complaining about something? No cards listed in "cat /proc/asound/cards" as well and you also find no information if you run;a=blob_plain;f=utils/ ? Correct?
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15:32<scorn>babilen, I haven't tried alsa-info, but the rest is correct
15:32<babilen>btw -- i can't find that pciid in "modinfo snd-hda-intel" on .37 kernel :)
15:33<sret>how can i tell if my machine supports dual processors? i did a cat /proc/cpuinfo but i see in processor: 0
15:33<sret>cpu cores: 2
15:33<scorn>babilen hmm
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15:34<sney>sret: debian natively supports as many cores as you can throw at it
15:34<sret>k actually this is weird, when i do cpuinfo, i get two listings, on topit says processor: 0 and in the bottom it says processor:1
15:34<cthuluh>sret: grep -c processor /proc/cpuinfo
15:34<scorn>babilen: [15909.588598] HDA Intel 0000:00:1b.0: PCI INT A disabled
15:34<scorn>[19379.475929] HDA Intel 0000:00:1b.0: PCI INT A -> GSI 22 (level, low) -> IRQ 22
15:34<scorn>[19379.475969] HDA Intel 0000:00:1b.0: setting latency timer to 64
15:34<scorn>[19379.504022] hda-intel: no codecs found!
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15:34<cthuluh>sret: then, debian cannot tell the difference between a logical core and a physical core
15:35<sret>when i do grep i get 2! that means debian is using both?
15:35<scorn>babilen: the main complaint is:hda-intel: no codecs found!
15:35<cthuluh>incredible, right? :)
15:36<babilen>scorn: yeah, i see that. :-\
15:36<sret>well i checkeed the system monitor and i saw cpu1 giving me these cpu history graphs and on the right it shows for cpu 2 showing the same
15:36<sret>so i had a doubt if it was using both
15:36<scorn>babilen, strange about the pciid, because it isn't giving me an 'device not supported/not found' error
15:36<sret>god i wish i had more RAM
15:36<sret>this board only supports 2gb
15:38<sret>so whats the best i can do with dual processors on debian?
15:38<cthuluh>what for? you did even know whether you had one or two or four processors, why would you care about ram? :)
15:38<cthuluh>sret: use it as usual?
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15:38<babilen>scorn: Could you paste the complete output of "lspci -knn" to along with the output of the alsa-info script
15:38<sret>cthuluh: i mean where is the advantage in using dual, where can i see that happen/
15:39<sney>you can do more things at once
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15:39<babilen>scorn: But something is wrong. Are you sure your soundcard is enabled in BIOS? I might also suggest to ask in #alsa on freenode if we can't figure anything out.
15:39<sret>sney: ah
15:39<sney>and certain tasks like video encoding will be faster with multiple cores than with one
15:39<jhtfyt>يولاد الكلب
15:39<jhtfyt> يخربيتكو
15:39<dpkg>methinks arabic is Linux supports the Arabic language. See For help with debian in Arabic, ask in #debian-lb on (and be patient! it's a small community)
15:39<jhtfyt>مش هتقدجرو تهدجروشسيب
15:39<jhtfyt>شيرش سح8رعيبديشسر
15:40<sney>jhtfyt: I don't know why you would think we can read that
15:40<jhtfyt>ينعل ابوكو
15:40<jhtfyt>يا هبل
15:40<jhtfyt>مش فاهمين بقولكو ايه
15:40<jhtfyt>انا بشتمكم
15:40<jhtfyt>حد يقدر يشتمني
15:40<babilen>!ops jhtfyt
15:40<dpkg>Hydroxide, bob2, caphuso, dondelelcaro, doogie, eeyore-, ElectricElf, ):, helix, ljlane, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, Netsnipe, TML, walters, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Alife, Myon, Ganneff, Maulkin, weasel, zobel, themill: babilen complains about: jhtfyt
15:41<sney>is 'هاهاهاهاهاه" laughter? I need to remember that
15:41-!-mode/#debian [+b *!*rootasdfa@41.178.188.*] by Ganneff
15:41-!-jhtfyt was kicked from #debian by Ganneff [jhtfyt]
15:41<sret>debian-lb on freenode is dead
15:41<sret>and their topic says squeeze is frozen..
15:41-!-Brigo [] has joined #debian
15:41<sney>not dead, then. just quiet, like the factoid said
15:42<sret>its dead, there's no users there
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15:43-!-jackyf [] has quit [Quit: KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.1, revision: 4541, sources date: 20100627, built on: 2010-07-29 03:40:46 UTC 4541]
15:43<sney>then who was topic!?
15:43<sret>the topic was set, but nobody seems to reside in the channel, channel hasn't dropped
15:43<sney>you're an idiot
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15:45<sret>the factoid says small community, you would expect atleast 1 nick in there, there aren't any
15:46<sney>not right now. what time is it in the middle east?
15:46-!-mode/#debian [-b *!*rootasdfa@41.178.188.*] by Ganneff
15:46<sret>pretty late
15:46<sret>around 11pm maybe
15:46<cahoot>circa midnight
15:46-!-afurlan [~afurlan@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:46<babilen>that is not late ;)
15:46<scorn>babilen: done
15:46<sret>exacgtly that isnt late
15:46<sney>irc is probably most active during working hours, like for us north americans
15:47<babilen>scorn: Wonderful -- would you reveal the URLs too?
15:48<sret>active is one thing but atleast you see nicks around
15:48<scorn>babilen: sry--it's been a while:
15:48<babilen>"us north americans" is quite an assumption. Anyway, this is drifting over to -ot
15:48<sret>the last reasonable support for linux for middle east folks i saw was basically forums
15:48<sney>vague majorities. anyway.
15:49<sney>hmm, ICH10 is probably brand spankin' new
15:50<babilen>scorn: Ok, that does not really look good. I would try a newer kernel (e.g. .37) from experimental or head over to #alsa and ask them if they have any good information on that device.
15:51<scorn>okay, thank you for your help, and patience.
15:51<babilen>scorn: I know that this is pretty basic advice, but I hope that you'll figure it out. And that card is enabled in BIOS and everyhting? (Just wondering because of the codec thing)
15:52<scorn>I looked when I first brought it up, but I'll check again before I procede futher.
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15:52<sret>the latest kernel is 37?
15:52<sret>woahh by default on squeeze we get 32 isnt it?
15:52<babilen>sret: .38 rc3
15:53-!-wissem [~localhost@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:53<scorn>sret: .32 yes
15:53<scorn>sret default on squeeze
15:53-!-wissem [~localhost@] has joined #debian
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15:53<sret>so like why not anything > 32, all experimental?
15:54<Robjor>how do i get it to print which subversion it is?
15:54<daemonkeeper>Because 2.6.32 seems to be a good choice for Stable.
15:54<sret>daemonkeeper: a
15:55<babilen>scorn: I would try .37 from experimental. 1. Set default release to squeeze (APT::Default-Release "squeeze"; in /etc/apt/apt.conf) 2. Add experimental line to /etc/apt/sources.list 3. aptitude update 4. aptitude -t experimental install linux-image-2.6.37-trunk-amd64 5. Reboot
15:55<daemonkeeper>2.6.32 will get long term support from mainline, moreover Squeeze is frozen since half a year ago
15:55<babilen>Robjor: What do you mean?
15:55<sret>what do you mean squeeze is frozen?
15:55<daemonkeeper>Do we have a factoid about this?
15:55-!-planet8 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:55<babilen>!tell sret -about frozen
15:55<babilen>daemonkeeper: sure :)
15:55<daemonkeeper>Thank you ;)
15:56<babilen>!tell sret -about slushy
15:56<sret>ok thanks:D
15:56<Robjor>babilen: uname -r gives 2.6.32-5
15:56<babilen>Robjor: Yes, what is your question?
15:57<sret>but squeeze is almost done here, it's getting released in what 2 days? it would still be called frozen?
15:57<daemonkeeper>frozen is a state rather than a name
15:57<babilen>sure, frozen until release
15:57<Robjor>babilen: wait a sec i might have misunderstood something
15:57<babilen>Robjor: I too :)
15:57<daemonkeeper>If released no new packages will enter Debian stable anyway.
15:57-!-Citizen666 [] has quit [autokilled: Do not spam other people. Mail if you feel this is in error. (2011-02-04 20:57:55)]
15:58<sney>less than 48 hours at this point eh
15:58<daemonkeeper>I'm unsure which timezone is actually meant ;)
15:58-!-cahoot [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:58*babilen suspects GMT
15:58<sney>oh, good call, I have no idea either
15:58<EvilTwin>wher eis debian hq?
15:58<daemonkeeper>No such thing
15:58<sret>so after squeeze what's the next version?
15:59<dpkg>The release after squeeze will be called "wheezy" (the rubber toy penguin with a red bow tie), and will be Debian 7.0.
15:59<sney>could be GMT or whatever time zone Murdock tended to live in
15:59<Powerfire>Now lets go devvers 2hours remaining :)
15:59<sret>sso as of now wheezy is in unstable?
15:59<daemonkeeper>No, Wheezy does not exist yet
15:59<sney>wheezy looks a lot like tux
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16:00<babilen>no, there is no wheezy yet. unstable is *always* sid, testing will be wheezy after squeeze's release
16:00<sret>so how long will it be before support for squeeze stops?
16:00<daemonkeeper>Debian unstable ("sid") will never become a particular Debian release. The testing tree (squeeze until now) is fed by unstable though
16:00<babilen>sret: release of wheezy+1 year (probably around 3 years)
16:00<sret>ooh sweet
16:01<babilen>scorn: So, tried that?
16:01<sret>so during this span debian wont be adding any new pkgs for squeeze, if so we have to do the updates ourselves?
16:01<daemonkeeper>Debian will not update package version, but there /will/ be security and mainentance updates
16:02<sret>right besides the securit updates
16:02<dpkg>[stable] The status of a Debian release when no packages will be added or new versions introduced, and changes will only fix security issues and critical bugs. Packages can be removed in rare circumstances. The current stable version of Debian is Lenny (5.0); ask me about <releases>. Security bugs are fixed in stable by backporting the fix to the current version (ask me about <security backports>).
16:02<scorn>babilen: sorry, the machine is in use currently I'll have to try the new kernel later.
16:02<babilen>sret: You might want to read the Debian reference. A lot of your questions are answered in there. Even those you haven't asked yet.
16:03<babilen>scorn: alright, i did not wanted to stress you :)
16:03<scorn>babilen: out of curiosity, if the sound card were disabled in the BIOS, wouldn't it be omitted from lspci?
16:03<babilen>i am not 100% percent sure ... probably
16:03<daemonkeeper>Depends on the bios I'd say.
16:03<sret>scorn: which card is this?
16:03<daemonkeeper>Or actually I'm sure it dies
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16:04<daemonkeeper>the BIOS might completely hide it, or disable it.
16:04<sret>if you wish to disable the sound card, alsa can blacklist
16:04<sret>which is what i did
16:04<jhutchins_lt>Usually the BIOS completely hides it so that Windows won't detect it and try to use it.
16:04-!-foolano [~magnetic@] has joined #debian
16:05<babilen>ok, disregard that line of investigation then
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16:06<Robjor>Does anyone use stable for desktop or is it more server oriented?
16:07<daemonkeeper>Sure many people do. On the other many people are annoyed from reasonable old version of $desktop_program as well
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16:07<sret>lenny? i was using it as a desktop and it was pretty darn good, for a server, not sure, depending on how your setup is i guess
16:07<daemonkeeper>Those might use Testing or Unstable then.
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16:07<sret>yeah lot of old stuff in lenny, if you're well udpated i think you're good to go
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16:08<Robjor>how about you guys, what are you running?
16:08<sney>I generally use testing for personal use and stable for anything that needs to be, well, stable
16:09<babilen>Robjor: A lot of people use stable on their desktops. Others prefer to have newer software and user testing or unstable. My laptop strategy is typically: 1. Stable for 6-12 month after the release 2. If no big problems loom at the horizon: Upgrade to testing 3. Wait for the stable release 4. Rinse and repeat
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16:09*devil runs unstable. stable/testing on servers.
16:09<daemonkeeper>I run Stable on servers, Sid on my Notebook.
16:10<daemonkeeper>Oh and Ubuntu on the HTPC :p
16:10<daemonkeeper>Yeah, I know. But I did not want to maintain it BUT nifty desktop apps as well ;)
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16:11<mc68040>Robjor: stable on servers, sid on my laptop
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16:12<sney>I haven't found or heard of anything that ubuntu can do that I can't implement on debian as well, so I just leave ubuntu to the people who really like brown desktops and alliteration
16:12-!-sergio [~jorgey@] has joined #debian
16:12<sergio>hi there
16:12<sergio>how are you/
16:13-!-sergio is now known as Guest255
16:13<sney>I'm fine, relaxing on my day off. do you have a debian question?
16:13-!-foolano [~magnetic@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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16:13<Guest255>yea si have
16:13<sret>what was that link for checking supported chipsets for alsa?
16:13-!-smv [smv@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:13<sret>crap i forgot, babilen you were the one who showed me
16:13<daemonkeeper>sney: Didn't say you couldn't on Debian (if you meant me).
16:14-!-MJD [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:14<sney>daemonkeeper: oh, I know, just stating my own preference
16:14-!-magnetic_ [~magnetic@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:14<babilen>sret: showed you what?
16:14<Guest255>i install bt4 r2 on vmware station
16:14-!-MJD [] has joined #debian
16:14<sret>link to where alsa supported chipsets
16:14-!-srw [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:14<sney>Guest255: bt4 is not supported here.
16:14<dpkg>BackTrack is not Debian and is not supported in #debian (ask me about <based on debian>). Try or #backtrack-linux on instead. BackTrack is a Linux distribution based on <Ubuntu> Intrepid (as of BackTrack 4), previously <SLAX>. Derived from merging two penetration-testing distributions: WHAX (formerly WHOPPIX) and Auditor Security Linux.
16:15-!-phoenix [] has joined #debian
16:15<Guest255>thanks anyway
16:15<sney>also, you cannot do any wifi hacking from inside a vm, if that was your question.
16:15-!-Guest255 [~jorgey@] has quit []
16:15<sret>found it
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16:16<daemonkeeper>sney: I am just lazy. That's the main reason for it. All I want on the HTPC is not to think about but have a recent Amarok and VLC as well. So I do a dist-upgrade every now and then and get a new stupid Ubuntu release name I can't remember.
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16:16<sret>scorn: doesnt look like your soundcard is supported
16:16-!-bartm [] has joined #debian
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16:17<sret>for VIA VT1708S
16:18-!-kagy [] has joined #debian
16:19<sret>although in the MLs there's a few who've got it working
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16:20<Robjor>is it stable/unstable/testing or stable/testing/unstable? (my money is on the first, am I right?)
16:21<bartm>Robjor, the latter
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16:22<Robjor>makes little sense from my point of view, but if you say so!
16:23<devil>Robjor: give us your money.
16:23<daemonkeeper>Maybe you should explain what you don't get?
16:23<Robjor>devil: the bet wasn't with you ;)
16:24<devil>poor me.
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16:24<acu>how to change boot splash and login in squeeze ?
16:25<Robjor>daemonkeeper: i'd say you test the packages for awhile then you decide they're unstable, test them some more and then stable
16:25<acu>gnome login in squeeze is changeable ?
16:26<sret>you mean gdm?
16:26<sret>never tried im sure you can
16:26-!-tornow [] has joined #debian
16:26<sret>did you google, there's like a 100 guys telling you how to change gdm themes
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16:27<sret>sudo gdmsetup
16:27<daemonkeeper>Robjor: This makes no sense to me? Why would "testing" a package render it unstable? You do an unstable (or even experimental thing), some time later you decide "it's worth to be tested" and if you think it is mature enough you turn it stable.
16:27<acu>sret: I did it in lenny etch etc... - but I cannot see in - of course I googled - that is why I am asking here - the google is obsolete or old thingy -for grub now is grub2 for bootslpals
16:27<dpkg>The bootsplash project ( provided Linux kernel patches and userspace utilities to enable a graphical boot process. Previously packaged for Debian as linux-patch-bootsplash and bootsplash, removed post-Etch to resolve bugs #469776 and #436639 respectively. Superseded by the Splashy Project (no kernel patch required), ask me about <splashy>. See also <plymouth>.
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16:28<dpkg>Splashy is a boot splash program requiring no patching of the Linux kernel. Packaged for Lenny, not in Squeeze due to Debian bug #599245. #splashy on See also <plymouth>.
16:28<babilen>don't use bootsplash
16:28<babilen>acu: /msg dpkg plymouth please
16:28<mc68040>Robjor: one starting point is:
16:28<daemonkeeper>acu: /msg dpkg <keyword>
16:28<sret>i dont know what bootsplash is but im referring to gdm
16:28-!-E0x [] has quit [Quit: off ]
16:28<Robjor>mc68040: already reading that
16:29<Robjor>mc68040: thanks though
16:29<acu>I want to change both - boot splash and gdm - Squeeze is cool but the graphics are even not childish
16:29<Robjor>daemonkeeper: you make a fine point
16:29<sret>acu: they have a grub2-splashimage
16:29<hdon>can anyone recommend a proxy? privoxy has been crashing on me.
16:29-!-kagy [] has quit [Quit: kagy]
16:29<sret>apt-get install that pkg.. not sure if lenny's got it, squeeze does
16:29<acu>thanks let me sii
16:30<sret>it's grub2-splashimages
16:30<mc68040>Robjor: :) using testing or unstable is a matter of taste i think, testing = more tested, unstable = earlier security fixes
16:30<daemonkeeper>In fact it is widely an automated process to migrate packages from testing to unstable.
16:31<daemonkeeper>(as far as I know)
16:31<bartm>daemonkeeper, from ... to ... ?
16:31<daemonkeeper>The other way around, yes
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16:32<mc68040>hdon: depends on your needs
16:32<Robjor>daemonkeeper: haha got you confused did i now? ;)
16:32<sret>acu: or you can load your own, by going into tc/grub.d/05_debian_theme
16:32<daemonkeeper>Looks like ;)
16:32<sret>and modifying a line there to add your image
16:32<sret>dude google tells you this
16:32-!-bluenemo_ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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16:32<sret>and i just checked, works
16:32<babilen>sret: Please don't tell people to edit /etc/grub.d/05_debian_theme
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16:33<Robjor>mc68040: i recon i'd prefer testing then or maybe even stick with stable
16:33<hdon>mc68040, my needs are not very complex. i really only need to proxy HTTP. and challenge the user to authenticate themselves.
16:33<sret>babilen: why? im going by what google said, they were doing it for ubuntu, samething applies for debian, cause i just tried it
16:33<Robjor>mc68040: then, recently left archlinux to get something more stable
16:34<hdon>mc68040, if you can just give me a few package names in debian 5 then i can do the research myself :)
16:34-!-rage [] has joined #debian
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16:34<hdon>i just need a place to start and a few recommendations from people experienced with them
16:34<mc68040>hdon: so no filtering..., i used already tinyproxy and squid for this
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16:34<sret>babilen: besides that was only if he wanted to have his own image, else debian provides a pkg for it:P
16:34<babilen>sret: Google is saying nothing. You are stumbling over a bunch of more or less incorrect blog posts from people who got something to work without really knowing what to do. There is no single "google" entity that is talking to you. refer to specific tutorials/websites instead
16:34<acu>babilen: do you have any sugestion of how to properly change the grub bootsplash and the gnome login ?
16:35<hdon>mc68040, squid is more than i need because it does caching
16:35<hdon>mc68040, tinyproxy looks good, thanks i will try it ;)
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16:36<babilen>acu: If you want to set a different grub wallpaper: either install grub2-bootsplash (if you are happy with the selection) or edit /etc/default/grub and set the WALLPAPER variable to a picture of your choice. (certain contraints apply on these pictures, on sec, i'll find the reference)
16:36-!-zophim [] has quit []
16:36<sret>acu: use the pkg for changing the bootsplash image
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16:37<babilen>acu: gdm themes are typically configured with a program called "gdmsetup" -- You might run gdm3 and I am not sure how to configure gdm3. I would actually suggest to remove gdm3 and use gdm
16:37-!-Jetron [] has joined #debian
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16:37<babilen>acu: do you need the additional information on "setting your own picture" ?
16:37<sret>babilen: i told him that already to use gdmsetup
16:38<babilen>sret: I am not following every single line of conversation in here, I am merely answering questions if I am asked.
16:38<sret>ok ok
16:39<babilen>sret: btw -- both "tutorials" you linked are horrible and unnecessary
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16:39<acu>thank you both :) - healthy helpful competition - let me see which works :)
16:40<mc68040>Robjor: then dont use unstable, unstable sometimes leave the system in an "interesting" state...
16:40<acu>babilen: it's OK - out of 471 users sret tried to help me - so I am grateful
16:40<sret>babilen: well the pkg install is what i'd do if he didnt have it
16:40<sret>sorry if he had it
16:41<daemonkeeper>Robjor: No need to be scared though. Even unstable is reasonable ok to work and live with. Be prepared to experience some problems now and then.
16:42<babilen>acu: Let me explain: 1. Changes to grub are typically made in /etc/default/grub. That is the upstream supported place. Debian also uses a couple of "theming/style" scripts (i.e. /etc/grub.d/05_debian_theme) that script actually sources /usr/share/desktop-base/
16:42<mc68040>daemonkeeper: i still remember the transition to grub-pc... :D
16:42<sret>right either have desktop-base or modify it in 05_debian_theme
16:42<sret>google says this already, its not like google isnt telling all this
16:43<babilen>acu: If you install grub2-splashimages it will set the picture you want to use in /usr/share/desktop-base/ ... the point is that this is not supported by upstream. They advocate setting the "WALLPAPER" variable in /etc/default/grub ...
16:43<acu>babilen thanks - is good to know what I am doing :)
16:43<babilen>sret: You don't edit 05_debian_theme
16:43<acu>sret: thank you for your help too
16:43<Robjor>mc68040 & daemonkeeper: big thanks for the help!
16:44-!-blah [~thoor@] has joined #debian
16:44<acu>I installed grub-2-spalshimages - I am trying to see where do I ghange that
16:44<babilen>acu: Just (re)configure it ...
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16:44<acu>!reconfigure grub
16:45<babilen>no, i was thinking about "dpkg-reconfigure grub2-splashimages" but give me a second
16:45<mc68040>Robjor: seriously: to use unstable you need knowledge of boot process and working on command line, else you will have real trouble sometimes
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16:46<Robjor>mc68040: working in cli is no problem at all
16:46<Robjor>mc68040: I actually prefer that
16:46<daemonkeeper>mc68040: Come on its not _that_ bad. I admit you need some general Linux knownledge and a bit on Debian package management for conflict solution as well
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16:47<daemonkeeper>This won't hurt in any case though
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16:48<babilen>acu: Ah. You can see the installed pictures in /usr/share/images/grub -- You could then set the "WALLPAPER" variable in /etc/default/grub to, for example: WALLPAPER="/usr/share/images/grub/Lake_mapourika_NZ.tga"
16:48-!-afurlan [~afurlan@] has joined #debian
16:48<mc68040>daemonkeeper: well, i had several times last year where sid created a wrong grub config
16:48-!-ifevrtfails [~thoor@] has quit []
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16:49<babilen>acu: The README for grub2-splashimages actually contains wrong information in that it wants you to edit that variable in /etc/grub.d/05_debian_theme -- another way is to edit /usr/share/desktop-base/ and set it in there.
16:49<mc68040>daemonkeeper: i dont say unstable is bad, i love it :)
16:49<bartm>it's risky/challenging/exciting/interesting :)
16:49<robbjo>mc68040: that happened to me with RC1 of squeeze too
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16:50<Tiff>I don't see why a typical end user would need to run unstable. Testing with backports is more sensible option to avoid severe breakages.
16:50<bartm>Tiff, yes you're right I think
16:50<robbjo>mc68040:just a minor thing though and it got fixed in RC2
16:50<babilen>acu: I would edit the latter if you have desktop-base installed and the former if not. Run "update-grub" after you've done that. (or just edit both places)
16:50-!-kagy [] has quit []
16:50<daemonkeeper>mc68040: I don't say everything just works(tm). I am just saying that the result Debian calls "Unstable" is at as stable as that, what Ubuntu and Fedora folks call a release. Every now and then you will be hit be a bug, yes.
16:51<mc68040>robbjo: right, but unexperienced admins/users are lost then...
16:51<babilen>acu: This whole configuration is currently in development and has not yet reached a sufficiently satisfying state.
16:51<sret>when i do a version for grub i get grub 1.98+20100804-14 this is grub2 right?
16:52<robbjo>mc68040: yeah that's true but it's alsa the only way to really learn :)
16:52<ansgar>sret: Yes.
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16:52<mc68040>daemonkeeper: right, nevertheless i warn everybody about this possibilities
16:52<daemonkeeper>mc68040: ACK. Everyone must be aware of this.
16:52<sret>so then why is it i see grub2 pkg as not installed in synaptic?
16:53<acu>cross fingers I reboot
16:53<ansgar>sret: Because it is called grub-pc.
16:53<sret>ive got grub-pc instaled
16:53<Tiff>Grub2 is just a dummy package.
16:54<acu>it works
16:54<sret>ah right
16:54<acu>now I need to fix the gnome login (gdm3) :)
16:55<acu>what a pain in the but - it was much easier in lenny I think even etch was easier to change
16:55<daemonkeeper>Backports can evolve to a reliable alternative over time for less experienced users, but for now they aren't. Now as they are official, this might change, but reality is, many packages are not available as backport (yet)
16:55<Tiff>daemonkeeper: You can backport things yourself.
16:55<robbjo>firealarm is going off, should i leave the building?
16:56<bartm>robbjo, sprinklers on ?
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16:56<daemonkeeper>Tiff: *I* can, but *I* do also know how to handle unstable. I wouldn't expect the average user to handle those.
16:56<robbjo>bartm: got no sprinklers
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16:57<robbjo>I guess better safe than sorry
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17:00<mc68040>Tiff: backporting oneself should be in the toolbox of every debian administrator
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17:01<mc68040>daemonkeeper: on servers i prefer backporting instead of unstable :)
17:01<daemonkeeper>mc68040: On a server I run stable without compromise.
17:01-!-zibi [] has quit [Quit: Távozom]
17:01<daemonkeeper>servers actually
17:01<bartm>mc68040, why backport if the package from unstable is compatible
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17:03<daemonkeeper>I think it is rather pointless to run backports on servers. You could go with testing or even unstable as well, if you do not care about the features stable brings you.
17:03<mc68040>daemonkeeper: would be nice, here still money (of customers) make the laws :(
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17:03<daemonkeeper>mc68040: So what? Same here.
17:04<Gathond>daemonkeeper: why, backports of one or 2 items is better than updating everything to something unsupported
17:04<sney>I have a server running lenny with a backport kernel for hardware support
17:04<mc68040>bartm: right, but a while after release the differences are to big
17:04<Gathond>regarding security updates etc
17:05-!-user01 [] has joined #debian
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17:06<user01>well, it is the 5th in some parts of the world, is it ready? :)
17:06<user01>is there a place it will be announced once ready?
17:07<sney>right here
17:07<daemonkeeper>Gathond: Uhm, for which packages do you care about security updates? I'd say about those you run. If you run backports those aren't guaranteed, so you could still upgrade to unstable and not loose/win anything.
17:07<bartm>user01, I guess on this list
17:07<ompaul>mc68040: the differences are a function of time, so the question is what is it you want. You can maintain your own package on your. For customers who are paying for desktops they want maybe two pieces of more modern software, an office suite and a browser, so you can package them put them in your own repo and get on with it. You manage the delta. If it is servers, again you manage the delta. It is your choice, ruby and gems are something you nearly need to
17:07<ompaul>track daily, so if that is your kind of customer that is your kind of market, if you didn't budget for the time to make the delta from stable you didn't plan your business.
17:08<ompaul>(woops .. own package on your own repo if you have to)
17:08<user01>ok thanks all
17:08<Gathond>daemonkeeper: true, but those would likely only be a subset of what that machine actually uses
17:09<robbjo>does debian have some sort of audit?
17:09<oOarthurOo>is OFTC #debian different from freenode #debian?
17:09<mc68040>daemonkeeper: well, i have the problem in opposite direction, for example we have customers still using php4 web applications on rented etch servers and they dont want to pay anything for upgrading, adapting to their applications to php5, ...
17:09<Gathond>daemonkeeper: whereas going ot unstable or testing means having NO packages with security updates
17:09<daemonkeeper>oOarthurOo: Obviously?
17:09<bartm>oOarthurOo, yes, OFTC is
17:09<ompaul>oOarthurOo: most certainly, one is on oftc and the other is not :) and see bartm cos that was my next comment :)
17:09<sney>oftc #debian is the official #debian, freenode #debian is just huge
17:10*oOarthurOo watches the more you know star draw a rainbow across his xchat window
17:10<Gathond>daemonkeeper: it could imho easily be argued that one should roll ones own packages instead of relying on backports
17:10-!-AzaToth [] has joined #debian
17:10<bartm> used to be freenode
17:10<cdlu>years ago...
17:10<daemonkeeper>mc68040: That's silly. YOU are responsible to guarantee the server security even on behalf of your customers and you do this by running an outdated programming language with particular bad "features" on an outdated system?
17:11<ompaul>mc68040: you should already have said - these boxes are insecure - we can't maintain them and to server you better we have these boxes over here, etch gets turned off on July 1 or something, that shouldhave been factored in in the beginning because you will now have to manage a full security check yourself :)
17:11<oOarthurOo>I must be doing something silly, because I've run mixed systems before without difficulty using pinning instructions for /etc/apt/preferences... but now it wants to upgrade my system to experimental! Here is my sources.list and preferences file if someone can help my tired eyes find the silly mistake
17:11<daemonkeeper>Yet #debian on both servers is supported by the same IRC bots and share a large subset of the same people ...
17:12<mc68040>daemonkeeper: i know, i have written letters and confirmation that they know, cant do more :(
17:12<daemonkeeper>Gathond: That would be better honestly. On the other hand I appreciate backports being official as well.
17:12<oOarthurOo>daemonkeeper, I can't multitask. If this is official channel I will be comofortable here
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17:12<Gathond>daemonkeeper: honestly it all (to me) boils down to a risk vs work analysis
17:13<daemonkeeper>oOarthurOo: Whatever you want. Perhaps you will find out that Freenode has a lot of other interesting channels :)
17:13<Gathond>I'm a paranoid arsehole though
17:13<Gathond>I tend to not even trust myself:)
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17:13<sney>the best way to encourage people to upgrade would probably be to add a "security hazard fee" to the usage bills of any systems older than a certain major revision
17:14<sney>you know, to cover your extra labour should fires need putting ou
17:14<Gathond>sney: reality though
17:14<daemonkeeper>People not doing updates won't care about security anyway
17:14<Gathond>says they will just leave your business
17:14<daemonkeeper>Regardless you tell them or not
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17:14<sney>yeah :/
17:14<oOarthurOo>what I'm trying to do is run testing, but pull in some packages if needed from sid/unstable... for example, xfce4.8. Of course, I don't want to keep upgrading that 4.8 from experimental, not until the update is available on testing. Make sense?
17:15<Gathond>daemonkeeper: no one cares, except a. paranoid peoble or b. everyone WHEN it goes wrong
17:15<daemonkeeper>haha, true.
17:15<sney>oOarthurOo: pinning or testing-unstable mix is what you want
17:15<Gathond>the b. folks only cares while stuff is down
17:15<Gathond>and say a week later
17:15<Gathond>then it is all about, upgrading costs X dollars, so screw you
17:15<oOarthurOo>sney, yeah. And i'm using the pin wiki, and a howto on the forums, and I've done it before to boot. But I'm screwing something up this time and can't figure out what
17:16<daemonkeeper>Really, I met people running cronjobs(!) to clean HTTP document roots because they were victims of code injection attacks!
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17:16<sney>a lot of times the hangup is not reluctance, but outdated proprietary software that just plain doesn't work with php5 or mysql 5 or what have you
17:17<sney>and in that case people need a full replacement, which is a big investment and time consuming
17:18<Gathond>sney: I understand the argument, however there is also a cost of running the voulnerable crap
17:18<ompaul>Gathond: some customers don't deserve service providers work with people who want to work
17:19<daemonkeeper>Well, unless you are mc68040 and you do the maintenance of legacy crap on behalf of your customers. So /they/ don't have extra costs.
17:19<mc68040>sney: probably of another company bcs the original collapsed, resulting in a complete new development...
17:19<sney>mc68040: yeah, or in my employer's case, a custom shopping cart made by a friend of the owner, who later moved to norway and dropped out of communication
17:19<sney>we're currently in the upgrade process to a different system, and it is a *process*
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17:22<mc68040>daemonkeeper: i dont do maintenance anymore (beside backup and logfile checking), and im not in position to cancel contract or force movement at this customer
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17:23<ompaul>mc68040: perhaps company law can help. Dear director, the company has the following threat against it: Reasons this is a threat. Your humble servant or some such,
17:24<daemonkeeper>You host web sites?
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17:25<mc68040>ompaul: im in germany, this customer isnt at stock market, ...
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17:26<iobound>anyone interested in a few installation reports for squeeze, can't be bothered sending emails/reportbug
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17:26<ompaul>mc68040: your company director has a duty of care to the company and their customer
17:26<daemonkeeper>Germany is a tough place for small hosting companies.
17:26<mc68040>daemonkeeper: yes
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17:27<mc68040>ompaul: no, he informed the customer, thats all, no more duties
17:28<daemonkeeper>.. unless $another_as informs you they get spammed from $your_vulnerable_server.
17:28-!-Nies [] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
17:28<daemonkeeper>Or attacked.
17:28<daemonkeeper>Or whatever.
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17:29<mc68040>daemonkeeper: yep, already happened, then i get the order to fix it, i do, we write an invoice about the needed time, that was it...
17:30<mc68040>i really would like to shut this server finally down, even when losing the customer
17:30<devil>some do not learn until it really hurts.
17:30<daemonkeeper>Sad but true
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17:31<daemonkeeper>Bad thing is, others suffer, not the dumbasses.
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17:33<mint>Anyone here?
17:33-!-mike_ [] has joined #debian
17:33<bartm>mint, no
17:34<ompaul>mint: are you doing something like running mint linux?
17:34<dpkg>Linux Mint is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Please use their forums at or join #linuxmint-help on for support. Linux Mint is variously based on <Ubuntu> with a "Linux Mint Debian Edition" (LMDE) also being available, based on <testing>. See also <based on Debian>.
17:34<mint>only temporary
17:34<mint>main system down :(
17:34<robbjo>umm, where do i set which daemons to start at startup? in bsd and arch it's /etc/rc.conf
17:34<daemonkeeper> /etc/init.d
17:35<daemonkeeper>/etc/rc2.d/ actually for Debian's default runlevel
17:35<ompaul>robbjo: if squeeze sysv-rc-conf is useful
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17:35<ompaul>robbjo: earlier versions the lazy way was rcconf
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17:36<iobound>anyone using xfce4 and Xvnc4 together?
17:36<dpkg>Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
17:37<iobound>xfce4 in Xvnc4 on debian squeeze fails to act on keyboard shortcuts. Probably due to xfce4-settings-helper segfaulting on start after complaining about missing XInputExtension. Has anyone else experienced this?
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17:38<iobound>in other news, a lenny->squeeze upgrade on a server running lighttpd and php/fastcgi resulted in a web server serving the .php source code to all clients.
17:38<mint>I have a question. I have a wireless G USB adapter here using RT2501/RT2573 (according to lsusb). Are speeds of ~410KByte/s expected on a LAN?
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17:39<daemonkeeper>Probably not, mint.
17:39<sney>mint: reasonable, especially if you're not the only device on the network, and/or you're decently far from the ap
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17:40<mint>My own net, router is ~ 5m away, a laptop on the network as well
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17:40<iobound>is there an irc channel or something that takes installation reports, or do I have to fill out the entire reportbug thing?
17:40<bartm>iobound, reportbug :)
17:40<daemonkeeper>A reportbug bot? What an idea ;)
17:41<iobound>yeah. or even better, some developer on irc with an interest in the problems
17:41<devil>iobound: it still needs to be documented
17:41<iobound>well sending installation reports with reportbug sucks. i have to make up a new email address since it gets spammed to hell 2 hours after submitting
17:42<sney>I've never had that problem.
17:42<mint>Could someone please give me some advice on how to increase the speed? I've got to transfer a 6GB file and on that speed it's 4h.
17:42<mint>^6.6 GB
17:43<iobound>sney really?
17:43<devil>mint: what driver/firmware are you using?
17:43<iobound>i STILL get spam to an address I blocked shortly after sending an installation report in 2004
17:43<sney>yeah, it's been a while since i last filed a bug report, but I've never gotten spam as a result
17:43<iobound>as recently as 1 hour ag
17:43<mint>devil: how do I check?
17:44<sney>I might've obfuscated my email address in the form but I don't remember
17:44<iobound>Feb 4 20:37:52 chaos postfix/smtpd[24242]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from unknown[]: 554 5.7.1 <debinst-20040814@....
17:44<devil>mint: you installed it.
17:44<mint>just a sec
17:44<devil>mint: /lib/firmware is the place to check
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17:48<mint>devil: I've got a few files. How do I check which is loaded?
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17:48<devil>mint: lsmod | grep -i rtl
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17:49<mint>no output
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17:49<devil>mint: pastebin lsmod please
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17:51<devil>mint: my mistake, its rt, not rtl. looks ok though
17:52<mint>It may be a silly question, but does it matter that the machine is an 800mhz coppermine from 1999-ish?
17:54<mint>devil: it's slow at loads of things, so maybe this as well?
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17:57<ompaul>mint: I had a coppermine box blow up on me in 08, it was being used for real work, it send some voltage out on ethernet, blew away a switch and a quad core multi disk scsi box on the same lan
17:57<amphi>mint: my T22 had a coppermine if I recall correctly - I remember that machine fondly
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17:57<mint>good it's on wireless then :)
17:58<mint>at least no net equipment to fry
17:58<mint>i don't really trust old machines but i prefer to squeeze as much of them as i can before they collapse. i don't like machines to gather dust :)
17:59<mint>besides, I need a stable base as evidenced by my recent system breakdown
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18:15<jeremiah_>What is a good gpg keyserver to use to get / send keys?
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18:16<jeremiah_>I always seem to get keyserver errors.
18:16<jeremiah_>They time out.
18:16<jeremiah_>Thanks bartm and daemonkeeper :-)
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19:13<robbjo>strangest thing yet... bash in X won't accept the letter b
19:14<robbjo>what did i do?
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19:14<bartm>robbjo, in a gnome-terminal ?
19:14<amphi>robbjo: bound 'b' to some window manager action?
19:14<robbjo>ye seems that way
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19:15<robbjo>if i do: set -o emacs
19:15<robbjo>it starts working again
19:15<robbjo>but i use vi bindings
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19:16<robbjo>urxvt if it matters
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19:17<robbjo>bartm & amphi: any way to get my letter back?
19:18<robbjo>i kinda need it
19:18*bja gives robbjo a brand new b
19:18<bartm>robbjo, do you use gnome?
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19:19<bja>robbjo: from urxvt run xterm or something like it see if the b is there.
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19:19<bja>you will need to poke at rxvt and i am no expert on that
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19:20<robbjo>bja: it's not urxvt that i fucked up
19:21<robbjo>think it's the keybinds in bash with vi style editing
19:21<bartm>if you were using gnome, then I would suggest to try System / Preferences / Keyboard Shortcuts and see whether the b key has a special meaning
19:22<robbjo>bartm: to bad i'm not :/
19:22<bja>robbjo: then fix bash
19:22<robbjo>bja: if i knew how i would :p
19:23<bja>order of precedence for keystrokes (i might be a little wrong but take the general idea) de, application that controls the frame (xterm or whatever ) shell (in your case it is bash) program that you run on that shell
19:24<bja>!tell robbjo about bash
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19:24<robbjo>im sorry but it seems it's not only in bash
19:25<bja>I swithched from bash to zsh long time ago
19:25<robbjo>same thing in all ttys...
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19:25<bja>robbjo: all ttys run bash
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19:25-!-themill changed the topic of #debian to: squeeze release this weekend: /msg dpkg squeeze; /msg dpkg lenny->squeeze | lenny (5.0.8) /msg dpkg 5.0.8 | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg pastebin | /msg bots NOT people | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | FAQ:
19:25<robbjo>bja: any particular reason
19:25-!-mode/#debian [-o themill] by themill
19:25<robbjo>bja: yeah
19:26<bja>robbjo: i can't recall but it was valid at the momment.
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19:26<bja>themill: any release party ;P
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19:27<robbjo>fixed :)
19:28<bja>robbjo: what was the problem?
19:28<robbjo>bja: okey, reasons seem to disapear don't they? :p
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19:29<robbjo>bja: I added a key rebind for ctrl+l and for some reason b got completly unbound :s
19:29<bja>robbjo: it might be a bug
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19:30<bartm>robbjo, just curious, where/how did you add a key rebind?
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19:31<robbjo>bja: guess so but i'd say it's more likely that i did it wrong
19:31<amphi>robbjo: rebinding ctrl-l may break ncurses things (ctrl-l is the ncurses clean up display binding)
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19:31<robbjo>bartm: in bashrc
19:32<robbjo>amphi: that was what i was trying to bind, it's missing in bash vi mode
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19:33<amphi>robbjo: odd, because I assumed bash got that from ncurses - when I once built bash (on the hurd) without ncurses, ctrl-l had no effect
19:33<jthill>^L not missing in my bash vi mode?
19:33<bja>daemonkeeper: bahh it would take me a whole day of travel to get to the neares one. Guess i'll connect and cheer over irc
19:34<daemonkeeper>bja: See the party line note on the bottom
19:34<robbjo>jthill: it's not? then why is mine missing? :s
19:35<jthill>good question, but I just did set -o vi and ^L works fine ... ah. from vi-command mode, not entry. I see it now.
19:35<robbjo>amphi: yeah i don't really know, my binds aren't there :s
19:35<bja>daemonkeeper: :D
19:36<robbjo>jthill: oh right, yeah that works for me too
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19:37<robbjo>*feels stupid*
19:37<jthill>haha. just tried to bind \C-l and my s binding vanished.
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19:38<robbjo>jthill: haha so it's not just me then!
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19:39<robbjo>jthill: btw, was i right in trying to bind through .bashrc ?
19:40<jthill>same as doing it from the commandline which should work too, right?
19:40*jthill is not an authority on bash or readine
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19:41<robbjo>i recon, i read something about .inputrc but it doesn't seem to do anything
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19:42<robbjo>jthill: how do you do that thing in irc? " * jthill is not an authority on bash or readine"
19:42<jthill> /me
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19:44<jthill>bind control-l:clear-screen
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19:45<jthill>robbjo: $ bind control-l:clear-screen
19:47<robbjo>jthill: sweet! and this time i got to keep b :D
19:47<jthill>now in return you get to tell me where to find gallium3d :-)
19:48<robbjo>leeme guess it's not possible? :p
19:49<robbjo>probably not what you meant though
19:49<jthill>gahh. my nvidia card crapped out, onboard rv480 _almost_ works great with radeon driver but there's clip damage in 3d
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19:51<robbjo>jthill: what do you need 3d for?
19:51<jthill>... why mesa didn't show on my gallium searches ... it didn't mention the integration on or
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19:52<jthill>blender mostly, plus I like google earth
19:52<robbjo>jthill: did i get it right? :o
19:52<amphi>jthill: no useful setting mentioned in man radeon
19:52<jthill>I'll know in a few minutes. _thank you_ for the pointer.
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19:53<robbjo>i've got no idea what blender is though
19:53<jthill>amphi: no hits
19:53<amphi>jthill: enabling (or more likely disabling) page-flipping might help
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19:54<jthill>amphi: thought I tried that ... worth trying again tho. brb.
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19:56<jthill>nope. same both ways.
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20:09<vook>cool - remove the handles from gnome-panel by modifying panel-toplevel.c - HANDLE_SIZE to 0.
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20:13<amphi>that's the sort of user-friendly config method one expects from a modern DE
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20:15<jthill>I wish projects would start cleaning their code to enable strict-aliasing. it makes a huge difference in surprising places.
20:15<vook>if gnome panel is shortened so that it doesn't expand, there are always handles.
20:15<jthill>and of course I wish they'd do all the work. I only complain.
20:16<jthill>vook: if you collapse the panel, and there's no handles, what's left on the screen?
20:16<vook>just icons
20:17<vook>kind of mac like
20:17<jthill>you could turn on autohide iirc, or just kill the panel
20:18<jthill>or do what I'm doing, explore the glories of ratpoison
20:21<amphi>jthill: you might like xmonad…
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20:22<jthill>amphi: thanks, I'll make that next on my list. ratpoison's looking pretty good atm, working up a keymap with C-M-s and the keypad
20:24<amphi>jthill: may give some idea of what you can do with it
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20:26<babilen>jthill: if you're looking around throw in wmii, awesomewm and dwm too
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20:28<jthill>babilen: that's exactly what I'm doing. did dwm already, plus a few other more traditional-style ones. ratpoison has stuck for a week now. wmii is the plan9-style one, yes? I remember trying that long long ago
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20:28<babilen>jthill: yes, the plan9 one -- although you can use other script languages for configuration (bash, python, ruby, ...)
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20:29<babilen>jthill: biggest problem with that one is that suckless more or less abandoned wmii in favour of dwm (last commit was october last year) -- was my favourite so far. settled on awesomewm ..
20:29<jthill>I've actually yanked gdm, fixed startx so it doesn't blank the session dbus, start pulseaudio and dbus-daemon and startx from the console shell, tell xterm to use Inconsolata in the ridiculously old-fashioned way
20:30*amphi is a startx-er
20:30<babilen>jthill: ridiculously old-fashioned way == ~/.Xresources ?
20:31<babilen>that's not old-fashioned but elegant :)
20:31<jthill>amphi: cool.
20:31<babilen>me too ...
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20:31<amphi>ghod, curmudgeons' corner ;)
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20:32<babilen>it was enough when gdm3 started to eat my keymap options (#590534)
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20:32<jthill>heh. anybody else cook up a one-liner script to replace rhythmbox?
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20:34<babilen>no - that's ridiculous! ;)
20:34<jthill>I actually wouldn't have gone back to this except gdm doesn't know about ratpoison, so I had to haul out long-ago memories
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20:34<jthill>babilen: you mean rhythmbox? you're right.
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20:36<jthill>ind ~/Music/lists/$1 -name *.ogg -o -name *.flac -o -name *.mp? | sort -R | while read song; do play --no-show-progress "$song"; sleep 1; done
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20:52<XayOn>for i in $(file -L ~/Music/lists/$1 | awk '/audio/ {print $1}'|cut -d: -f1); do mplayer $2 $i; [[ "$3" != "" ]] && read -n1; [[ "$REPLY" == "q" ]] && break ; done
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20:54<XayOn>jthill method looks cooler on using find instead of a bucle, but min will accept your music even if it hasnt got an extension ;) for example for chrome and firefox cache ... babilen
20:55<mercutio22>Hi... I am trying to understand how crontab works. If I did crontab -e and input 55 23 5 2 5 echo "test"
20:55<mercutio22>should I see that echo command run on tty1?
20:55<babilen>and is completely useless on my diverse and large collection
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20:57<jthill>all hail symlinks
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20:59<XayOn>babilen: of course, also, mine doesn't iterate trough directories. It's meant for small music collections or browser caches.
21:00<XayOn>It's for people like me, that has more network bandwith than hd space
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21:05<jthill>... 'course, if those files are all in your browser caches, that might explain the lack of disk space ...
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21:08<XayOn>jthill: no, I use that script for video... I open flash stuff on webbrowser, then use that.
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21:35<Administrator>i have install debian without install grub,now i want to config the "menu.lst" but when i boot the system ,it show "waiting for root file system",how can i fix the problem
21:36<jthill>no grub == no menu.lst
21:37<jthill>or grub.cfg these days.
21:37<Administrator>i has used the grub2dos to loader
21:37<Tookie>i want to understand slapd... does it only act as an ldap server, or do i need this package only if i need to authenticate with active directory?
21:38<jthill>reinstall and take the defaults. grub2 finds windows if that's what you're after.
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21:39<jthill>you might be happier with wubi
21:39<Administrator>thans a lot
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21:49<Slik>jthill: actually there's no wubi for debian, is it?
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21:50<jthill>right, but from "Administrator" and not knowing what grub does, I figured debian might be a bit much...
21:50<Slik>well indeed...
21:51<Slik>still that wubi thing sucks i'd say
21:52<jthill>it occurs to me I didn't ask what release. does lenny have an os-prober that'll find windows?
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21:52<planet8>just delete it manually
21:53<sney>jthill: nope, but if he chose not to install grub in the installer menu then it's a moot point anyway
21:53<jthill>I keep windows around for orbiter
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21:53<Slik>jthill: having installed lenny in several systems think not
21:53<amphi>jthill: you could have told him about ;)
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21:54<sney>grub for dos implies he didn't want a boot loader on the hard drive
21:54<jthill>amphi: see above. If you haven't tried orbiter you're missing something great.
21:54<sney>probably hiding the linux install from his parents
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21:54<kork>"son. we can forgive you for the pron. but linux?"
21:55<amphi>jthill: I have no idea what it is
21:55<Slik>kork: reminds of lady java
21:56<jthill>amphi: spaceflight sim. nuts-on. modders have recreated the Apollo missions. gorgeous graphics. you will not forget your first successful rendesvous with the ISS
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21:58<jthill>(and by "recreated" I mean they built the spacecraft too).
21:58<amphi>jthill: ah - I like stellarium and celestia
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22:00<amphi>I'm not sure the craft would interest me that much
22:01<jthill>amphi: stellarium/celestia awesome for what they are, but not remotely spaceflight sims. no lie: I keep windows around for it.
22:01<amphi>thank ghod - real spaceflight must be very dull - months beteen planets
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22:06<mercutio22>UPS7: 18.4
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22:07<mercutio22>my mistake sorry]
22:07<jthill>timewarp goes to 100000x. their tutorial pages include jpl's "Basics of Spaceflight". Orbital mechanics rocks. The physics sim ... um. spin stabilization, not faked. gravity perturbations from nonspherical bodies. After the ISS, there's the first time you look out your cockpit window and watch Mars slowly growing closer. Getting there is not easy.
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22:09<amphi>sounds fancy indeed
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22:16<jthill>find someone with a windows box, find about five hours minimum. You'll want to rtfm. Sorry, I'll quit with the offtopic now.
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22:30<l0pht>Hey folks.
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22:43<l0pht>On Lenny, if i wanted to install the proprietary ATI (AMD) drivers for my graphics card, i would have to recpmile my kernel? Just a quick question.
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22:43<sney>l0pht: nope
22:44<dpkg>[fglrx] "FireGL and Radeon for X", the AMD/ATI proprietary display driver for Radeon R5xx, R6xx, R7xx and Evergreen chipsets. As of fglrx-driver 1:9-4-1, no chipsets prior to the R600 series are supported; use <radeon> or <radeonhd> instead. To install, ask me about <fglrx one-liner lenny>, <fglrx one-liner squeeze> or see . #ati on
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22:46<l0pht>sney: thank you. when i was reading over the release notes by AMD, it read that i needed the kernel Headers packages to compile the drivers.
22:47<l0pht>so, gotcha.
22:47<l0pht>Thanks again.
22:47<sney>no problem
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22:50<l0pht>hello kaziu.
22:50<kaziu>hello l0pht ;)
22:51<kaziu>i don't want doing an oftop here... but ...
22:51<kaziu>...i really have to ask
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22:52<kaziu>what is for c variables declaration before function block opening bracket and after the function parameters O.O?
22:53<kaziu>google didn't tell me
22:53<kaziu>i'm confused
22:53<sney>I have no idea
22:53<l0pht>kaziu: i don't know. But i hope someone else can help you.
22:53<sney>l0pht: some hacker you are ;)
22:53<sney>mostly sysadmins in here, kaziu. maybe try finding a programming channel?
22:54<l0pht>lol, i know right? Name change soon i promise!
22:54<kaziu>yea I'm trying but most ppl sleep
22:55<kaziu>take a look ->
22:55<dpkg>[homework] something you should do yourself.
22:55<kaziu>3 scrolls down - chapter Characteristics of C
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22:55<kaziu>i have never seen something like this
22:55<kaziu>lol O.O
22:58<kaziu>is probably recurrence
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23:02<l0pht>In lenny, is POSIX Shared Memory (/dev/shm) support on by default?
23:03<l0pht>...or how would i find out?
23:03<dpkg>[posix] the Portable Operating System Interface - the GNU library is also compatible with the IEEE POSIX family of standards, known more formally as the Portable Operating System Interface for Computer Environments. POSIX is derived mostly from various versions of the Unix operating system.
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23:05<l0pht>Have a good one, folks. Thanksa sney for the help.
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---Logclosed Sat Feb 05 00:00:40 2011