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#debian IRC Logs for 2011-02-13

---Logopened Sun Feb 13 00:00:02 2011
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00:05<thatandr1idguy>hey guys. im having some trouble getting my sound card working under debian i was hoping you could be of some assistance. the card is a 00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset High Definition Audio (rev 05)
00:05<luis>i have the same issue
00:06<thatandr1idguy>really luis?
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00:07<thatandr1idguy>any body whos had this issue and resolved it?
00:08<luis>yes is been i awhile since make the question and so far none has been able to help and i been readong lot of post but none of them work
00:08<thatandr1idguy>damn
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00:14<sney>it's never a good sign when lspci's output is vague like that
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00:16<apet4u>anyone willing to help me with a wifi problem
00:17<apet4u>\ive got an acer aspire 5520 and it uses a ar5006eg wireless card
00:18<sney>ar5006eg?
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00:19<apet4u>and ive been reading online but i cant find a solution to meh problem
00:19<apet4u>yep its a athenos
00:20<apet4u>im using squeeze btw
00:20<sney>sounds like it *should* be ath5k, but that should just work
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00:20<apet4u>how do i activate it?
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00:21<apet4u>or even see if its there
00:22<sney>well, first verify what linux sees it as. do the command 'lspci -vv |grep -i net' in a terminal and tell us what it says
00:24<sney>also do 'lsmod |grep ath' and see if anything comes up
00:24<sney>if everything is normal, that second one should show you a bunch of entries related to ath5k
00:24<apet4u>ath5k 112242 0 mac80211 137340 1 ath5k ath 8006 1 ath5k cfg80211 101496 3 ath5k,mac80211,ath led_class 2433 3 ath5k,acer_wmi,sdhci
00:25<sney>yeah, that's what mine shows as well. so odds are, you've just got a configuration problem
00:25<apet4u>that was for the lsmod |grep ath
00:25<sney>yeah, I know
00:25<apet4u>ok m very new to linux and have no idea
00:25<apet4u>so how can i reconfigure it to work?
00:26-!-Vnuchaev [~vnuchaev@213.87.91.230] has joined #debian
00:26<sney>http://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse
00:26-!-M1stFu [~M1st@71-90-100-20.dhcp.ftbg.wi.charter.com] has joined #debian
00:27<sney>if anything on that page is confusing it can generally be googled
00:27<apet4u>ok thank ya much
00:27<sney>np
00:28<Vnuchaev>hello! I have a VDS with Debian 5.0. Need to install mpd (Music Player Daemon), it is in repositories, but without mp3 encoder support. Is it possible to install it from another repositories? How to include them?
00:28<sney>!dmm
00:28<dpkg>from memory, dmm is Debian Multimedia is a repository of unofficial packages maintained by Christian Marillat, not in Debian for patent-related reasons. For information on how to access, see http://debian-multimedia.org/ or ask me about <dmm squeeze> <dmm lenny>. During 2010, this repository grew a non-free part, with all binary-only packages moved there; you may need to add " non-free" to your sources lines. See also <dmm mirrors>, <dmm list>.
00:30<Vnuchaev>!dmm lenny
00:30<dpkg>dmm lenny is probably Following the squeeze release, the debian-multimedia.org repository for lenny was lost and will not be restored. Ask me about <lenny->squeeze>.
00:31<Vnuchaev>what does it mean? I can't use this repository on lenny?
00:31<sney>oh, hmm. that's a bummer
00:31<sney>no, you can't, because the maintainer broke it :( one of the risks of using 3rd party repositories
00:33<Vnuchaev>!lenny->squeeze
00:33<sney>Vnuchaev: do /msg dpkg lenny->squeeze
00:33<sney>it's better to just talk to the bot directly
00:34<Vnuchaev>do /msg dpkg lenny->squeeze
00:34<sney>/msg
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00:35<Vnuchaev>it does not answer
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00:36<Vnuchaev>have sent /msg dpkg lenny->squeeze
00:37<sney>worked for me
00:37<sney>dpkg: lenny->squeeze
00:37<dpkg>Remove volatile & backports from /etc/apt/sources.list changing lenny to squeeze. Use apt-get for the upgrade: "apt-get update && apt-get upgrade && apt-get install linux-image-`uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,'` udev". Install firmware-linux-nonfree if needed; check you have a 2.6.32 kernel installed "aptitude search '~nlinux-image~i'" and reboot into it. "apt-get dist-upgrade". READ THE <squeeze release notes>.
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00:37<sney>this would update your Debian install from 5 to 6, so do some research to make sure it won't break anything that you need
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00:39<Vnuchaev>Ok, but I can not find mpd packet on the debian-multimedia.org site
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01:05<Blueship>So what is the back round
01:05<Blueship>it is annoything
01:05<weedeater64>Change it.
01:05<Blueship>no
01:06<Blueship>u change it
01:06<weedeater64>I'll need some login info
01:06<Blueship>like wut
01:07<Blueship>i already del system 32
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01:10<Vnuchaev>Help, please. What packet to use to install GTK+. I need Glib 2.12
01:14<mothermcfucker>aptitude and synaptic should show you dependencies if you type glib into the search area
01:14<mothermcfucker> / search term
01:15<mothermcfucker>You would press the / key then type glib2
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01:21<Vnuchaev>I have installed a package from default sources.list, but it is rather old. What to add to have newer versions?
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01:29<mothermcfucker>update your sources
01:29<mothermcfucker>apt-get update
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01:54<dapo>is 'apt-get build-dep package' still how u get deps for compiling packages?
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03:58<montyboy>dapo, it appears so. aptitude build-dep works too
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04:04<Vnuchaev>Help, please.. During compiling it says "need Glib 2.12". Where to get it? Have installed GTK+2.0, but still this error
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04:05<cahoot>got the -dev package?
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04:19<rachet>hola
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04:30<sznitzeln>hey! yesterday i used the fglrx one-liner you get from the bot here, and now i get a black screen when starting debian
04:31<bartm>sznitzeln, any errors (EE) in /var/log/Xorg.0.log ?
04:31<sznitzeln>i tried to remove fglrx from recovery mode with apt-get --purge remove, but the package fglrx was not found
04:32<sznitzeln>hm i dont know
04:32<bartm>look :)
04:32<sznitzeln>i wont be able to paste it as the computer is more or less dead
04:32<sznitzeln>ah
04:32<sznitzeln>look :)
04:32<sznitzeln>hehe
04:32<sznitzeln>ok just a few mins
04:32<bartm>sznitzeln, to find packages related to fglrx : dpkg -l|grep fglrx
04:33<amphi>sznitzeln: you can't get to a text console?
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04:37<sznitzeln>i started the computer in recovery mode
04:39<sznitzeln>hm i cant type | , is it ok with> ?
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04:39<bartm>sznitzeln, ?
04:40<sznitzeln>sorry...
04:40<sznitzeln>i dont have the correct keyboard map in recovery mode
04:40<amphi>a life without pipes isn't worth living
04:40<sznitzeln>but how can i see the contents of Xorg.0.log?
04:40<bartm>sznitzeln, why use recovery mode?
04:41<amphi>less /var/log/Xorg.0.log
04:41<sznitzeln>because i only get a blackscreen otherwise
04:41<amphi>or grep EE /var/log/Xorg.0.log
04:41<sznitzeln>fglrx messed up my comp!
04:41<bartm>sznitzeln, you can get a text console with control-alt-F1
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04:41<sznitzeln>i tried that
04:42<sznitzeln>still black screen
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04:42<sznitzeln>actually guys, i picked a really bad time to ask you these things... i think i have to go, thanks anyway for helping out
04:42<sznitzeln>ill be back later
04:42<sznitzeln>:/
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05:49<lapfrog>hi guys is there a way to install real firefox and keep it up-to-date with apt?
05:49<lapfrog>!firefox
05:49<dpkg>Mozilla Firefox is replaced by Iceweasel in Debian. Ask me about <iceweasel> and <why iceweasel>.
05:50<lapfrog>:<
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05:50<lapfrog>i want real firefox cause firebug says it's incompatible with iceweasel
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05:52<cthuluh>lapfrog: firebug is available via the debian packages
05:52<lapfrog>oh i se
05:52<lapfrog>e
05:52<lapfrog>ok thx
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06:04<tuxman>could anybody tell me how to install/config grsecurity2 on Debian squeeze stabe ??? Thx in advance !!!
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06:13<camel__>hi everyone: is there a way to install the experimental debian kernel into a running 'unstable' system?
06:14<bluenemo>can i specify another ~/.ssh/known_hosts file to read from and write to (when authing with 'yes') on ssh? like with an option or sth? didnt found so much on man ssh - ssh_config
06:14<camel__>i'm trying to get something from 2.6.3[567] and wondering if there's a 'debian way' before i just roll my own and blast the installed kernel ;)
06:14<tuxman>could anybody tell me how to install/config grsecurity2 on Debian squeeze stabe ??? Thx in advance !!!
06:15<gsimmons>dpkg: tell tuxman -about grsecurity
06:15<tuxman>???
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06:16<bluenemo>tuxman, do you mean apt-get install 'package'? have you done that and need help in config? pls specify
06:17<bastilian>anyone knows any alternatives to webmin?
06:18<tuxman>I would know what pkg to install and how to config after installing the right pkgs. thkx
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06:21<bluenemo>tuxman, look @ http://debian.pastebin.com/BxXLBbET
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06:24<fo0o0ox>hi
06:24<fo0o0ox>help me plz
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06:25<bartm>fo0o0ox, no need to ask for help, just ask the real question
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06:33<ComradeHaz`>Hey all. Any idea how long it will be until the xorg dependency issues in unstable repo's are resolved?
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06:34<tuxman>I would know what pkg to install grsecurity2 on Debian 6 and how to config after installing the right pkgs. thkx in advance.
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06:36<bartm>tuxman, you've received your answer already.
06:37<tuxman>eeeuh , soryy I can not see it : I am a newbie in the linux world and it's my first IRC chat.
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06:38<bartm>!grsecurity
06:38<dpkg>grsecurity is a patch set to enhance Linux kernel security: provides an ACL system, auditing capabilities and institutes measures to prevent common system exploits. Packaged for Debian as linux-patch-grsecurity2, read /usr/share/doc/linux-patch-grsecurity2/README.Debian to apply. See also <kernel-package>. http://www.grsecurity.net/ #grsecurity on irc.oftc.net, ##grsecurity on irc.freenode.net.
06:39<tuxman>I am looking for not obsolete tutorial/ howto but just can not find :(
06:40<bartm>tuxman, read what dpkg wrote ^^^
06:40<tuxman>ok thkx bartm
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06:41<jason__>wow finally i am in..
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06:41<jason__>good to see ya~
06:41<jason__>anybody here?
06:41<jason__>clear
06:41<bartm>no
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06:44<ompaul>bartm: I'm not here either ;-)
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06:47<rigved>hi everyone...i am on Debian Squeeze. i want to set up a netboot server. so, when a client machine on this network starts up (using netboot in the BIOS), the server should send an image to the client machine. the client machine should load this image and boot into it. can anyone tell me how to set up this server? even if you can point me to the right resources, that will also be fine.
06:48<bartm>rigved, I think that there's an "howto" about this somewhere
06:49<bartm>rigved, maybe this helps ? http://netboot.sourceforge.net/
06:49<rigved>bartm, ok. so the netboot image provided on the debian website in the download section (along with the netinst) is different, right?
06:49<rigved>bartm, ok. i will check that out. thanks
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06:52<don315>maybey you can try this one? http://wiki.debian.org/DebianLive/Howto/Netbooting_Servers
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06:54<rigved>don315, thanks a lot!
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07:00<jordilin>ComradeHaz`, xorg dependencies are fixed in sid
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07:01<jordilin>although be careful as I've got minor issue at detecting two screens
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07:01<jordilin>with one screen is fine. I did a safe-upgrade
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07:02<jordilin>as openoffice still with broken depends
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07:03<ComradeHaz`>jordilin: as of when?
07:03<jordilin>as of today, do an apt-get update
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07:03<ComradeHaz`>Yeah, did just when I mentioned it and trie
07:04<ComradeHaz`>Which mirror are you using?
07:04<jordilin>I'm using mirrorservice but any major one should be the same
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07:05<ComradeHaz`>well, still bjorked for me.
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07:06<jordilin>when you do a safe-upgrade/full-upgrade it tells you is it gonna remove xorg?
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07:06<ComradeHaz`>full-upgrade, yes, but actually that's not my concern
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07:07<ComradeHaz`>I'm in no desperate rush to upgrade, but I would like to install nvidia -glx on a new machine
07:07<ComradeHaz`>Obviously that requires xserver-xorg but that's uninstallable
07:09<ComradeHaz`>http://paste.debian.net/107485/
07:10<ComradeHaz`>That essentially the same issue you had?
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07:18<rasputin>!list
07:18<dpkg>VATTENE VIA!
07:18<don315><rigved> http://wiki.debian.org/squeeze/Howto/Netbooting_servers
07:18<rasputin>!list
07:18<dpkg>VATTENE VIA!
07:18<rasputin>ciao
07:18<rasputin>ciao a tutti
07:18<rasputin>!list
07:18<dpkg>VATTENE VIA!
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07:19<mimiocafettiere>!list
07:19<dpkg>VATTENE VIA!
07:19<rigved>don315, ya thanks! i already checked out these manual pages when you gave me the link earlier. :)
07:19<don315>ok
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07:20<rigved>don315, really helpful!
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07:20<don315>you're wilcome
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07:31<ComradeHaz`>jordilin: Can you confim what I pasted above is caused by the same issue you suffered from?
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07:34<jordilin>no. looks like it's a dependency issue with the nvidia glx package
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07:35<jordilin>I don't have nvidia graphics card
07:36<ComradeHaz`>Um, really?
07:36<ComradeHaz`>I thought it was xorg packages that were causing that.
07:36<ComradeHaz`>Gues I missunderstood. xD
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07:37<x-c0d3-D3V>Hello all
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07:54<ottoshmidt>when network-manager-gnome is installed it shows "no network connection" although there is network
07:55<ottoshmidt>the annoying part is that Pidgin messes up, the rest works fine.. added connection manually but the same
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07:56<ottoshmidt>version 0.8.2-3, any clues ? (other than remove it :( )
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08:01<SynrG>ottoshmidt: you have some other way to manage the network installed?
08:01<SynrG>maybe /etc/network/interfaces
08:01<ottoshmidt>is it possible to manage VPN connections any other way?
08:02<SynrG>i mean, it sounds like something else set the network up for you, not NM
08:02<ottoshmidt>a
08:02<ottoshmidt>probably yes
08:02<ottoshmidt>I used to set the network that way
08:02<ottoshmidt>/etc/network/interfaces
08:02<SynrG>so, check for a wlan0 stanza in /etc/network/interfaces, for starters (although i thought in that case, the NM applet clearly said "not managed")
08:03<SynrG>NM does not want to manage the network unless your wlan0 stanza is removed from that file
08:03<ottoshmidt>what if i don't have any wlan?
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08:03<SynrG>same
08:03<ottoshmidt>SynrG, i guess i can't get you
08:04<SynrG>NM will not manage any network device for which you have a stanza in /etc/network/interfaces
08:04<SynrG>wireless or otherwise
08:04<ottoshmidt>should I comment them out?
08:04<SynrG>yes
08:04<ottoshmidt>let me try
08:05<ottoshmidt>should I restart?
08:05<ottoshmidt>the pc
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08:05<SynrG>/etc/init.d/networking restart should suffice, i think
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08:05<SynrG>ah, hm. maybe /etc/init.d/network-manager restart too. i dunno
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08:06<ottoshmidt>ok
08:06<ottoshmidt>I need to reboot anyway.. thanks for hints
08:06<ottoshmidt>brb
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08:21<assa>Hi, I have a ThinkPad Edge with Debian testing and a kernel from experimental. I have a problem. After a while (maybe about 30 minutes) this laptop goes inte suspend or hibernation and won't wake up. I have to cold restart it every time. I have tried to google around, but I can't really puzzle this hibernate/suspend-thing together. How do I disable it permanently?
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08:36<serg36>хватит!
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08:38<rigved>assa, you should not use Debian testing for a production system...that said, can you see anything in the logs?
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08:39<joe>hi all
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08:39<Guest1254>hi everyone
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08:40<Guest1254>i have this question - i have an acer 4820tg (so i've got 2 GPUs)
08:40<Guest1254>i was wondering can debian support this?
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08:42<SynrG>assa: gnome (if you're using gnome) has power management settings. find them and change them to suit your needs.
08:42<Guest1254>how would that help?
08:42<MeglaW>haha this is pretty cool, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12419672 SUCK THAT DNA! hahahhaha
08:43<SynrG>assa: as for the 'will not wake up' bit, check for bugs against your kernel version that may match. if there isn't one, file one.
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08:43<MeglaW>no. i did it again, damn.
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08:44<SynrG>Guest1254: there are multiple conversations happening here. it is a large channel and i wasn't addressing you. the part before the : is the nickname of the person i was addressing
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08:45<rigved>Guest1254, yes, it can. this is similar to many sparc machines.
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08:45<Guest1254>i'm just a newb and i wasn't sure
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08:46<SynrG>Guest1254: it's ok
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08:46<Guest1254>how do you do a private conv?
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08:46<Guest1254>cause i'd like to ask you a couple of questions if that's ok
08:46<Guest1254>?
08:47<SynrG>just ask them here
08:47<SynrG>it is perfectly normal and OK to have multiple, criss-crossing conversations at once. having them in public means more people can help
08:47<SynrG>because frankly, i don't know everything :)
08:47<Guest1254>ok, so - debian 6 has a kernel version older then other distro
08:47<Guest1254>should that bother me?
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08:48<Guest1254>or are there little diff so it doesn't really matter?
08:48<serg36>what is the best (most correct) way to install firefox in squeeze?
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08:48<bartm>serg36, apt-get install iceweasel
08:49<serg36>no, true firefox
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08:49<serg36>i.e. firebug doesn't work in icew
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08:50<SynrG>Guest1254: if it works for you, it shouldn't matter. mostly what you get from new kernels is support for new hardware.
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08:50<SynrG>often such things can be supported anyway by building a module out of tree for it.
08:50<SynrG>against the older kernel
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08:51<serg36>I have installed it from LMDE repo ))) but there is some updates from there which I do not want )
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08:51<sicksadworld>hello
08:51<sicksadworld>where is the config file for grub in squeeze ?
08:51<serg36>/boot/grub/grub.cfg
08:51<cthuluh>serg36: aptitude install iceweasel firebug
08:52<serg36>hmmm
08:52<sicksadworld>thank you serg36
08:52<cthuluh>well, rather /etc/default/grub
08:52<serg36>it is for update-grub general
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08:55<sicksadworld>i mean to add a kernel build by myselft to grub to boot on ?
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08:55<sicksadworld>do i have to edit /boot/grub/grub.cfg or /etc/default/grub ?
08:56<Guest1254>if my computer works fine with ubuntu, would it work just as good (or better) with debian?
08:56<rigved>sicksadworld, do you want to add a new entry? then add the script to /etc/grub.d
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08:56<sicksadworld>rigved: yes a new entry that's it
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08:57<bartm>Guest1254, I suggest you try debian and come back when you have specific questions :)
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08:57<Guest1254>i did try debian
08:57<rigved>Guest1254, i did not see any difference. just that with debian you may have to do many things manually. that's the fun part!
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08:57<Guest1254>ok thanks
08:57<cahoot>s/many/some/
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08:59<sicksadworld>is there a way to go back to old grub ? lenny version for instance ?
09:00<rigved>sicksadworld, add the file to the /etc/grub.d/ folder. read the readme file and check the other files for examples
09:00<cahoot>grub-legacy IIRC
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09:42<mystery>Hey question how hard is it to install squeeze on a system with nvidia raid?
09:44<cthuluh>nvidia raid sounds like bios-assisted raid, hence it would be wiser to use software raid
09:44<mystery>So dmraid?
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09:44<kop>mystery: (Unless you're an enterprise and have spare _compatible_ raid controllers around so you don't lose all your data if the controller dies.)
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09:47<mystery>Actually it is a Packard Bell. Intel inside, dual core with nvidia raid. Tried installing Ubuntu on it last year. Live CD saw the drive, but the installer didn't.
09:47<@Ganneff>nvidia raid is shit. dont use it, do it with software raid
09:48<@Ganneff>much better
09:48<@Ganneff>!fakeraid
09:48<dpkg>[fakeraid] a term used for controller cards that advertise RAID functionality that is NOT supported by a hardware chip for parity. Most of these have only a BIOS. For use with Debian systems, it is suggested that you do not set a RAID in the BIOS and don't use dmraid, just use regular software RAID instead; ask me about <md>. http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/SataRaid
09:49<@Ganneff>!software raid
09:49<dpkg>"Multidisk Device" (MD) is commonly used to describe the software <RAID> facilities available in the Linux kernel. This means you can RAID with any disks, with no need for a special (read winmodem) hardware controller. To establish at Debian installation time, see section 6.3.2.3 of the <install guide>. See also <mdadm>. http://wiki.debian.org/SoftwareRAID http://linux.yyz.us/why-software-raid.html http://raid.wiki.kernel.org/
09:50<mystery>thank you
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09:51<tuxman>anyone have an idea on how to install and grsecurity2 on debian 6 ?
09:51<bartm>!grsecurity
09:51<dpkg>grsecurity is a patch set to enhance Linux kernel security: provides an ACL system, auditing capabilities and institutes measures to prevent common system exploits. Packaged for Debian as linux-patch-grsecurity2, read /usr/share/doc/linux-patch-grsecurity2/README.Debian to apply. See also <kernel-package>. http://www.grsecurity.net/ #grsecurity on irc.oftc.net, ##grsecurity on irc.freenode.net.
09:51<bartm>tuxman, still the same answer :)
09:51-!-setcomes [~setcomes@183.211.219.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #debian
09:52<tuxman>I just can not find non obsolete doc
09:52<@Ganneff>maybe read what dpkg wrote to you
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09:53<cast93>I get an error when I install debian the firmware file is missing: e100/d101m_ucode.bin nobody has a solution?
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09:54<setcomes>hello
09:55<gsimmons>dpkg: tell cast93 -about e100
09:55<setcomes>could anyone help me? I have a problem to install wifi on debian
09:56<bartm>setcomes, no need to ask for help, just ask the real question
09:57<tuxman>dpkg any help on this please ? "To apply automatically, set PATCH_THE_KERNEL=YES before first running ofmake-kpkg (from package: kernel-package) and "make-kpkg clean" to remove."
09:57<dpkg>tuxman: You are person #1 to send an unparseable request
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09:58<themill>make-kpkg doesn't apply patches any more, does it?
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09:59<setcomes>So, I can't use my wifi. I tried everything and I don't know what else may I do. The usb is SMCWUSBS-N3. I have this in lib/firmware: rt2870.bin and rt3070.bin. When I type #lsusb: ID 083a:a701 Accton Technology Corp.
09:59-!-jibel [~j-lalleme@ACaen-151-1-79-173.w86-215.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian
09:59<rigved>cast93, which debian version are you using?
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09:59<setcomes>When I type #iwconfig: lo no wireless extensions wlan0 RALINK STA ESSID:""
09:59<setcomes> Mode:Auto Frequency=2.412 GHz
09:59<setcomes> Link Quality=10/100 Signal level:0 dBm Noise level:-143dBm
09:59<setcomes> Rx invalid nwid:0 Rx invalid crypt:0 Rx invalid fra
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10:00<SynrG>tuxman: dpkg is a simple infobot, not an AI
10:00<cast93><rigved> cast93, which debian version are you using?
10:00<cast93>* debian squeeze
10:01<rigved>cast93, http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/firmware/squeeze/current/
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10:01<setcomes_>@rigved I use Squeeze
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10:02<Arctichare>is there a chat room here good for answering physics questions
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10:03<rigved>cast93, uncompress this to the root folder of a usb and connect this usb just before you start installing squeeze. this might help to install some common firmware files that might be missing
10:03<themill>Arctichare: there are 200 people in ##physics on irc.freenode.net
10:04<Arctichare>thank you
10:04<rigved>cast93, hope that helps!
10:04<Arctichare>i think i may have been there
10:04<tuxman>I'v read read /usr/share/doc/linux-patch-grsecurity2/README.Debian to apply and I found this :"To apply automatically, set PATCH_THE_KERNEL=YES before first running ofmake-kpkg (from package: kernel-package) and "make-kpkg clean" to remove." . I am very sorry, I am not very fluent in english and and I am a newbie in linux.
10:04<cast93>ok thx
10:04<gsimmons>setcomes_: There is a known issue regarding that device and channel 12-13 usage ; /msg dpkg SMCWUSBS-N3
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10:05<Arctichare>someone told me about an #Ior group on OFTC network
10:05<Arctichare>but I can't find it
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10:14<yamaha147>help
10:14<rigved>!ask | yamaha147
10:14<yamaha147>!ask
10:14<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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10:15<rigved>yamaha147, actually i was going to say that if you have a problem, then ask away!
10:16<bartm>yamaha147, we're all holding our breath... :)
10:16<yamaha147>This is my first time I am on IRC and had finally configured my Backtrack. It never connected on its own until I installed VMWARE
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10:17<yamaha147>I'm not reqally sure what to ask..lol
10:17<yamaha147>actually I do have 1 question
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10:17<SynrG>yamaha147: backtrack isn't debian and this is a support channel for debian
10:18<yamaha147>my BackTrack window is very small in VMWARE. Is there a way to Maximize it to the full size of the screen with re-installing?
10:18<yamaha147>ohh
10:18<yamaha147>sorry I dont know what debian is...yet anyway
10:19<SynrG>i think you want #backtrack-linux on irc.freenode.net
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10:20<yamaha147>i want to thank you guys for responding :)
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10:21<sicksadworld>someone can remind me how to make an initrd image for boot for modules that not "in hard" in kernel ?
10:21<sicksadworld>in squeeze
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10:22<quidman>Hi. I have a weird problem with my debian Sid. Since upgrading today, when logging into KDm, after a few seconds of KDE loading, the screen begin to flicker. And I cannot get back in control, even by trying to switch VTs. I downgraded to
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10:23<quidman>every package I found between today and yesterday, but to no avail. And of course nothing in Xorg logs
10:23<quidman>Any idea ?
10:23<quidman>(nothing in kdm.log and syslog too)
10:24<sznitzeln>hey, i got a pretty serious problem with my system yesterday when i ran fglrx one-liner...
10:24<sznitzeln>namely my screen is black when i start the system and i cant do anything
10:24<SynrG>sicksadworld: /etc/initramfs-tools/modules (as per mkinitramfs(8))
10:24<sicksadworld>i got the same problem quidman in squeeze, switching to vtX with alt+ctrl+Fx from X (vt7) after launch X, make X not available
10:24<SynrG>sicksadworld: edit, then update your initrd with that command
10:24<bartm>sznitzeln, haa you're back. Have you verified your /var/log/Xorg.0.log ?
10:24<sicksadworld>SynrG: thank you
10:25<sznitzeln>bartm, hi
10:25<sznitzeln>yes
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10:25<sznitzeln>bartm, it was empthy
10:25<sznitzeln>empty
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10:25<sznitzeln>i am pretty sure in my case its best to reinstall debian, since i have only had it 2 days
10:25<sznitzeln>so there isnt really a big loos
10:25<sznitzeln>loss
10:25<sznitzeln>and my partitions are probably not set up in a good way either
10:26<sznitzeln>but i just wonder...
10:26<sznitzeln>is the problem caused by possible incompatibility with my hardware, or could i ahve messed up the installation?
10:26<sznitzeln>i did the following: ctrl + alt + f1 to "shut down X" i hope that si correct
10:26<sznitzeln>then i typed su
10:27<sznitzeln>then the oneliner (executed as a script)
10:27<sicksadworld>SynrG: but i dont want to update the current kernel, i've build a new one, but in case that i have forgot somethin...need the initrd for boot , the same way ?
10:27<sznitzeln>!fglrx one-liner squeeze
10:27<dpkg>[fglrx dkms] For Squeeze users. Ensure you have <non-free sources> added. Exit X / stop any <DM>, then as root: "aptitude -r install linux-headers-2.6-`uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,'` fglrx-driver && modprobe -r radeon drm ; mkdir /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d ; echo -e 'Section "Device"\n\tIdentifier "My GPU"\n\tDriver "fglrx"\nEndSection' > /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-fglrx.conf".
10:27<SynrG>sznitzeln: reinstalls are rarely the right thing to do. it is far better to figure out what the problem is and file a bug, or it is likely to recur again
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10:28<gsimmons>sznitzeln: If http://wiki.cchtml.com/index.php/Hardware is accurate, fglrx 8.771 (as packaged in Squeeze) has no support for the Radeon HD 6850. An X log would confirm this.
10:28<sznitzeln>SynrG, sure, i can do that if it helps anyone else
10:28<sznitzeln>gsimmons, oh...
10:28<SynrG>sicksadworld: update-initramfs (sorry, not mkinitramfs) updates the initrd for your kernel(s)
10:28<phaze>хая
10:28<phaze>в
10:28<sznitzeln>i have precisely that graphics card... did you know that?
10:28<SynrG>update-initramfs calls mkinitramfs to do this
10:29<sicksadworld>SynrG: thanks i have to dig this :)
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10:29<sznitzeln>so is it possible to restore my system without reinstalling?
10:29<SynrG>sicksadworld: normally update-initramfs -u is what you want
10:29<SynrG>see the man page
10:30<sicksadworld>SynrG: not -c instead ?
10:30<SynrG>sznitzeln: i have no experience and general apathy towards fglrx ...
10:30<SynrG>from what i've heard it is a steaming pile :p
10:30<sznitzeln>SynrG, is there a better alternative?
10:30<sicksadworld>SynrG: -c -k my_new_kernel_build_from_kernel.org
10:30<SynrG>i use 'radeon' quite happily with my rv710-based HD4350
10:31-!-Muzer is now known as MuzerAway
10:31<sznitzeln>does 'radeon' refer to a driver or the hardware?
10:31<sznitzeln>should i follow !radeon ?
10:32<SynrG>sznitzeln: 'radeon' is the name of the xorg driver. it is the open source replacement for fglrx
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10:32<sznitzeln>SynrG, and it supports HD6xxx series?
10:32<SynrG>sznitzeln: you'll want to confirm your hardware is supported and if yes, then yeah, i think you'd be better off with it
10:33<SynrG>don't know. you'll have to look that up yourself
10:33<sznitzeln>ok
10:33<sznitzeln>can you give me some link to look at?
10:33<bartm>google.com
10:33<cast93>Rigveda everything worked thank you very much for your help
10:33<sznitzeln>hehe
10:33<SynrG>does dpkg bot not know?
10:33<sznitzeln>ok ill try
10:33<SynrG>/msg dpkg and ask?
10:33<sznitzeln>!hdradeon
10:33<sznitzeln>!radeonhd
10:33<dpkg>[radeonhd] the alternative open source display driver for Radeon R5xx, R6xx and R7xx chipsets. Packaged for Debian as xserver-xorg-video-radeonhd. Also ask me about <radeon firmware>. radeonhd does not support <KMS> (Debian bug #575226). http://wiki.debian.org/AtiHowTo http://x.org/wiki/radeonhd #radeonhd on irc.freenode.net. See also <radeon>, <radeon vs radeonhd>, <fglrx>.
10:34<SynrG>btw, i use radeon, not radeonhd
10:34<sicksadworld>is there any read about the new grub in squeeze, how to set it up correctly ?
10:34<sznitzeln>!radeon
10:34<dpkg>[radeon] a brand of graphic processing units by ATI/AMD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon). The radeon open source display driver is packaged for Debian as xserver-xorg-video-radeon, optionally install libgl1-mesa-dri for 3D acceleration. Also ask me about <radeon firmware>. http://wiki.debian.org/AtiHowTo http://x.org/wiki/radeon #radeon on irc.freenode.net. See also <radeonhd>, <fglrx>.
10:34<cast93>rigved everything worked thank you very much for your help
10:34<SynrG>i don't know the status of one vs. the other ... at the time, radeon was said to be more stable, but that was a while ago
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10:36<SynrG>my card is not exactly a screamer, but the 'radeon' driver performs adequately to play tremulous
10:37<SynrG>so say my kids, anyway
10:37<sznitzeln>ok i have another completely unrelated question... if i have a 1TB harddrive and want to dualboot debian/windows, could you recommend any partitioning scheme? is / 30GB ext4, swap 2-3GB, /home 750GB ext4, /drive_c 200GB NTFS a good choice?
10:37<rigved>cast93, np. you are welcome
10:38<sznitzeln>is NTFS the best way of having a partition that is both compatible with windows and linux?
10:38<sicksadworld>the http://www.debian.org/releases/squeeze/amd64/ch05s01.html.en#boot-initrd say that you can edit the /boot/grub/menu.lst, but it's doesnt exist no more in squeeze...
10:38<sznitzeln>and if i create NTFS in linux, does it work for windows?
10:38<devil>sznitzeln: i would prefer fat32
10:39<sznitzeln>devil, ok.. why?
10:39<bartm>sicksadworld, that's a bug worth reporting
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10:39<rigved>sznitzeln, you can use ntfs with both windows and linux but create the ntfs partition in windows, as the ntfs drivers of windows are better
10:39<devil>sznitzeln: because its easier and safer. no need for ntfs-3g etc
10:40<sznitzeln>devil, actually, i might want to transfer a whole lot of data from my previous windows machines... do you think i should have a big ntfs/fat32 partition instead and a much smaller /home partition?
10:40<fnmueller>sznitzeln: define best. The ext3 driver for windows work quite well too. I would always use a native way to the most used OS
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10:40<SynrG>devil: safer? cite problems with ntfs-3g
10:40<sicksadworld>bartm: i dont know how to report
10:41<bartm>sicksadworld, http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting
10:41<sznitzeln>fnmueller, hehe i guess the problem is that i dont know yet to what extent i will be able to use linux... my goal is to use windows as little as possible
10:41<devil>SynrG: it seems by now it is quite safe. i would still prefer fat32 or even ext3
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10:41<sznitzeln>preferably only for playing starcraft 2 :)
10:42<SynrG>devil: i think using a less-preferred filesystem for windows out of paranoia is going to make your windows experience suck more
10:42<rigved>sznitzeln, i'm sure you will will be successful in your goal! ;)
10:42<SynrG>at little to no benefit, that i can see
10:42<SynrG>from what i understand, ntfs is journalling and fat32 isn't ...
10:43<SynrG>so if i *had* to use windows, i'd prefer a journalling filesystem over a non-journalling
10:43<SynrG>especially given (in my experience) windows' tendency to suddenly and inexplicably develop problems that are totally opaque to me :/
10:43<fnmueller>sznitzeln: well, in that case only install linux and keep an virtual windows if you really need it
10:43<sznitzeln>ok, so if i have say movies or mp3 files stored in ntfs, can i only copy them unto a ntfs drive on my new computer or can i write them to a ext4 drive also?
10:44<sznitzeln>fnmueller, that sounds appealing
10:44<quidman>Seems to be something corrupt in my KDE setup (other people accounts work fine)
10:44<quidman>weird
10:44<sznitzeln>fnmueller, do you think playing games on a virtual windows will suck really hard?
10:44<SynrG>if you're truly paranoid about ntfs corruption by linux writing, set up windows with two partitions, one for the system (ntfs) and another for transfer of data between systems (fat32)
10:45<SynrG>but i really don't see the need
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10:45<fnmueller>sznitzeln: data are independent from filesystems if you plan on copying those. And yes, I believe windows games will really suck hard
10:45-!-Se-bash [~seba@host236.186-124-183.telecom.net.ar] has joined #debian
10:45<SynrG>sznitzeln: i doubt if games will play well on a VM
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10:46<sznitzeln>SynrG, this is waht i am really worried about: if i make a really big partition with NTFS or fat32, that will leave less space for /home, and it seems in linux default download folders and such things go under /home
10:46<fnmueller>sznitzeln: however, I have no experience in that question really, if I play at all, it is torcs or xmoto and very rarely wolfenstein enemy territory. All of those are native to linux
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10:47<sznitzeln>and thus i risk /home being overfilled by some program i dont have control over, or if i am not attentive enough
10:47<SynrG>that's what the reserved blocks are for
10:48<SynrG>so that at least root will have that overdraught to dip into if it fills up
10:48<SynrG>then you cleanup, and life continues
10:48<sznitzeln>fnmueller, what do you mean data are independent? i can copy a movie to any filesystem and it will run?
10:48<SynrG>you'll find a lot of data is disposable :)
10:48<sznitzeln>hehe
10:48<fnmueller>sznitzeln: yes
10:48<sznitzeln>so what would you say is a minimum size for /home?
10:49<SynrG>there is no good answer
10:49<SynrG>it depends on usage habits
10:49<sznitzeln>ok
10:49<bartm>sznitzeln, entirely depends on the users of /home
10:49<SynrG>worst case, say you choose incorrectly ...
10:49-!-lurker [~lurker@krlh-5f7258fc.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #debian
10:49<SynrG>you can boot a rescue image and gparted to repartition
10:49<SynrG>(make sure first you have good backups :)
10:49<ompaul>sznitzeln: you should give it as much as you can afford plus 50%
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10:50<ompaul>i.e. you can never have enough.
10:51<sznitzeln>ok lets say like this: most of my hdd is occupied by movie files... i need one partition for windows+starcraft+a little more, is there any advantage/disadvantage to putting movies into /home (ext4) over putting them in the windows partition?
10:51<SynrG>i wouldn't worry about /home so much. decide how much the system needs for each OS ...
10:51<SynrG>throw all of the rest into /home
10:51<sznitzeln>ok sounds nice
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10:51<sznitzeln>and what file system would you have for /home?
10:51<jwkokc>sznitzeln, on my main production system, the hd is 500 GB and I partitioned it with almost all of the space going to /home. it has six virtual machines defined, to run Windows virtual machines, all in a subdirectory of /home, and still has well over 250 GB free in /home.
10:52<ompaul>sznitzeln: ext4
10:52<SynrG>if you want movies accessible on Windows, you'll want something other than ext4 to put them on, i think
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10:52<SynrG>i don't know why, though. i find linux movie players quite decent
10:52<ompaul>why would you want them on windows?
10:52<SynrG>exactly
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10:53<sznitzeln>so what is actually the advantage of having ext4?
10:53<sznitzeln>more stable/faster?
10:53<SynrG>case study: my daughter has a thinkpad for university. she retained windows for a few windows-only programs. it gradually fell into disuse, as she relied on linux for movies and web and schoolwork, and windows only for a game ... that she never had time to play anyway,
10:53<ompaul>sznitzeln: it is a good replacement for windows this debian thing, the main feature you need to consider is that it is like changing cars, the indicator and light switches may change but you can get your travelling done
10:53<SynrG>when we upgraded her laptop, she tossed windows entirely.
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10:54<sznitzeln>that story fits me too i guess, i want to change cars and i only want windows for a game that i will have limited time to play
10:54<ompaul>sznitzeln: I have had no problems and it is faster on fsck than ext3 you won't as a human notice speed differences of fs's
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10:59<sznitzeln>ok this sounds promising. Ill assign as much free space for windows is i find neccessary, then put the rest in /home and /
10:59<sznitzeln>thx a lot!
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11:19<Yvemath>i tried a debian installation which failed! But i can't find /grub folder in / to edit :S
11:19<Yvemath>nothing in /boot either.
11:20<Yvemath>vmlinuz and initrd.img in / though.
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11:20<witte>Yvemath: where did it fail?
11:21<Yvemath>witte: Select software and install [1%] no dialog box, no response from > 20 minutes
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11:22<witte>Yvemath: at that moment, you should have a look at your consoles (bit late now maybe)
11:23<Yvemath>witte: console :S where can i find that.
11:23<witte>alt-F1 (or another one)
11:23<Yvemath>witte: hmm, i'm logged in to arch atm. which is on a seperate hard disk
11:23<witte>during the installation you get all messages there
11:23<Yvemath>when i try to boot in that harddisk, it says Error 15: file not found
11:24<Yvemath>witte: i see, i'll keep track of that, in my later installation.
11:24<Yvemath>But how should i progress now ?
11:24<Yvemath>s/installation/installations/
11:24<witte>Yvemath: if you didn't install further than 1%, you can better restart the installation
11:25<Yvemath>witte: how ?
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11:26<witte>Yvemath: with restart I mean: do it again from scratch :-)
11:27-!-babilen [~babilen@5add12fa.bb.sky.com] has joined #debian
11:27<witte>unless you would be able to start it in rescue mode
11:27<witte>but as you don't have anything, the fastest thing might be just try again
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11:28<Yvemath>witte: that hard disk had a few partitions, 1 - NTfs (windows + mbr) i.e. bootdisk flag with initrd and vmlinuz for debian in C:/boot/ i chainloaded the installation from there, 2- Fat16 with arch and debian iso's , 3 - EXT2 - debian , 4- swap
11:29<airola5stelle>Error for wireless request "Set Mode" (8B06) :??
11:29<sznitzeln>hi i have some troubles with my system. is it possible to use internet in recovery mode?
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11:29<airola5stelle>why cant i set my wireless in master mode?
11:29<Yvemath>witte: now i think, i don't have access to windows bootloader. debian linux probably overwrited it with grub/lilo ?
11:30-!-ottoshmidt [~ottoshmid@188-169-14-156.dsl.utg.ge] has joined #debian
11:30<witte>Yvemath: grub is only in the end stage, depends on what you did...
11:30<witte>if you cancelled, it might not have done it
11:30<Yvemath>witte: i restarted the system.
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11:31<airola5stelle>http://pastebin.com/Q2VrtJuG
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11:31<witte>Yvemath: before the grub installation?
11:31<Yvemath>yeah probably.
11:31<justin__>Ok, so I want a boot screen in debian.
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11:32<Yvemath>i restarted at that point that screen i told you earlier.
11:32<justin__>I installed plymouth on my computer - but when I check to find where themes go
11:32<justin__>They aren't there.
11:32-!-phrosty [~phrosty@cpe-75-83-225-196.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:32<justin__>Where are they usually at/or have I installed Plymouth correctly
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11:32<Yvemath>witte: anyways any utility you know, to ntfsfix mbr in linux?
11:32<ikoo>no idea
11:33<witte>Yvemath: my last pc with windows was in 2002 or 2003. I am not really aware of the latest stuff for ntfs :P
11:33-!-ikoo [~yea@cpc1-nfds1-0-0-cust343.8-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit []
11:33<Yvemath>:)
11:33<Yvemath>neither me, just looking sudo pacman -Ss dostools :S
11:34<Yvemath>i've only used windows to install debian or arch :-)
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11:35<babilen>justin__: plymouth-themes-* ?
11:35<babilen>,info plymouth-themes-all
11:35<judd>Package plymouth-themes-all (misc, optional) in squeeze/i386: Graphical Boot Animation and Logger (themes metapackage). Version: 0.8.3-9.1; Size: 5.8k; Installed: 36k; Homepage: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/Plymouth
11:35<justin__>I have that.
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11:36<justin__>I can't do update-alternatives --config default.plymouth
11:36<justin__>It doesn't exist.
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11:39-!-mode/#debian [+l 503] by debhelper
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11:41<babilen>justin__: Why do you think that is necessary? You have to run "plymouth-set-default-theme" as documented in /usr/share/doc/plymouth/README.Debian
11:42-!-knoppix_ [~knoppix@dynamic-adsl-94-34-27-163.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #debian
11:42<knoppix_>hello
11:42-!-knoppix_ is now known as Guest1262
11:43<Guest1262>cazzo
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11:43<Guest1262>felling
11:43<kop>Guest1262: If you have a debian question just ask.
11:44<Guest1262>yes i have a debian ask
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11:44<justin__>Erm..
11:44<justin__>babilen
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11:44<justin__>It tells me the command doesn't exsist
11:44<justin__>*exist
11:45<Guest1262>cazzari
11:45-!-tjader [~rodrigo@iroh.tjader.com.br] has quit [Quit: leaving]
11:45<justin__>And I have version 0.8.3-9.1
11:45-!-Guest1262 [~knoppix@dynamic-adsl-94-34-27-163.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit []
11:45<justin__>The latest version
11:45-!-mathieu [~mathieu@ims92-3-88-173-114-207.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian
11:46<Tiff>!it
11:46<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
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11:46<babilen>justin__: Quite unlikely, what does /usr/sbin/plymouth-set-default-theme give you? Are you root? You can list all files in a package with dpkg -L PKG
11:46<mathieu> hello, I have installed squeeze, the installation finished, but when debian starts, after grub, the loading stop, the screen get to sleep
11:47<mimiocafettiere>!list
11:47<dpkg>VATTENE VIA!
11:48<justin__>Running it as root gives me text
11:48<justin__>Literally, the word 'text'
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11:48<Saskwach>I just installed testing on an intel mac mini and sound doesn't work. I've got alsa-base installed and I had alsamixer set all the volumes to max. lspci says "Audio device: nVidia Corporation MCP79 High Definition Audio (rev b1)". What am I missing?
11:49<justin__>Saskwach: Check if there is any firmware for that card
11:49<justin__>Saskwach: If so, install it
11:49<cahoot>Saskwach: cat /proc/asound/cards - only one? which is card0?
11:49<Saskwach>cahoot, Yep, only one.
11:49<babilen>justin__: So, you can run the command, you just don't know how to use it. Does "man plymouth-set-default-theme" list anything?
11:49<Saskwach>justin__, Okay, how?
11:49-!-agentc [~agentc23@dyndsl-080-228-179-095.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #debian
11:49<agentc>hi
11:49-!-Biokinetica [~fffffuuuu@207.74.114.18] has joined #debian
11:50<cahoot>Saskwach: try (as root) /etc/init.d/alsa-utils reset 0
11:50<justin__>Nothing, babilen
11:50<justin__>Saskwach: There should be firmware on the download page
11:50<kop>mathieu: what do you mean sleep? Does it still display something? Is there an error message?
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11:50<cahoot>justin__: you're sure it need fw?
11:50<babilen>justin__: Ok, what about "plymouth-set-default-theme --help" ?
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11:51<justin__>cahoot: That is the first thing I would check
11:51<cahoot>no I
11:51<cahoot>few sound cards need fw
11:51<justin__>Thanks babilen
11:51<justin__>It worked.
11:51<babilen>justin__: Just do this the next time you have a problem ;)
11:51-!-lapfrog [~vampi@85.122.81.58] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:51<justin__>Ok, so, which is the best theme you guys reccomend?
11:52-!-magnetic_ [~magnetic@14.Red-88-26-177.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:52<babilen>justin__: spacefun!
11:52-!-lapfrog [~vampi@85.122.81.58] has joined #debian
11:52<cahoot>!polls
11:52<dpkg>"Does anyone have X or use Y?" is taking a poll, not asking a good question that IRC helpers can answer. Don't do it or sussudio's army of militant badgers will hurt you. Also see <ask> and <bad polls>.
11:52<justin__>Cool!
11:52-!-gusnan [~gusnan@h53n3c1o269.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Quit: Lämnar]
11:52<justin__>Thanks, that looks epic, seeing a youtube video of it right now
11:53<Saskwach>justin__, which download page?
11:53<cahoot>Saskwach: try (as root) /etc/init.d/alsa-utils reset 0
11:53<Saskwach>cahoot, no dice
11:53<justin__>what
11:53<justin__>Now, after trying to rebuild using that command you gave me
11:53-!-Edo_ [~mario@adsl-165-227-6.teol.net] has joined #debian
11:53<cahoot>Saskwach: doest speaker-test -t wav -c2 return sound/silence/error?
11:53<justin__>It tells me the themes folder does not exisit
11:53<justin__>*exist
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11:54<babilen>justin__: are you talking to me?
11:54<justin__>Should I use update-initramfs -u to do it?
11:54<babilen>"it" being?
11:54<justin__>/usr/share/plymouth/themes//.plymouth does not exist
11:54<Saskwach>cahoot: silence, but it's not spewing errors.
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11:55<babilen>justin__: Yes, please run "update-initramfs -u" after that. And *please* take a look at /usr/share/doc/plymouth/README.*
11:55<justin__>Kay.
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11:56<cahoot>Saskwach: internal speakers? no chance of misconnection?
11:56<Saskwach>cahoot: I tried unplugging the external speakers, and no cables have moved since it last worked in OSX.
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11:56<cahoot>Saskwach: see if you get sound via headset
11:57<Saskwach>cahoot: Nope, nothing.
11:57<justin__>See ya.
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11:57<sicksadworld>why X would not return to X (vt7) after switching to console (VT1, VT2, VTx) .... ?
11:58-!-Eulenspiegel69 [~free_the_@ip-109-84-31-106.web.vodafone.de] has joined #debian
11:58<cahoot>Saskwach: one other thing - if there's a 'Analog/Digital output switch' in alsamixer - try toggle that
11:59<mirko>!list
11:59<dpkg>VATTENE VIA!
11:59-!-diego3f [~diego3f@host16.190-136-29.telecom.net.ar] has joined #debian
11:59<babilen>sicksadworld: could it be on vt8 ?
11:59<sicksadworld>babilen: unfortunatly...no
12:00<Saskwach>cahoot: Nope, there doesn't seem to be one. Maybe I'll try installing a newer kernel.
12:00<Eulenspiegel69>Does anyone know when the second edition of Martin Krafft's The Debian System: Concepts and Techniques will release? Originally it should have been released 2010/09
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12:00<sicksadworld>it's on VT7 after startx, if switch to vtX, go back to X VT7 is black, reboot only solution
12:00<sicksadworld>windows like :)
12:00<cahoot>Saskwach: there's a chance a later version of alsa might be needed
12:00<babilen>sicksadworld: Ok. Just asked because that happens frequently. Ah, but not if you use startx.
12:01<cahoot>Eulenspiegel69: he has a blog
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12:01<cast93>I have a problem that it is wireless disconnects every 20 seconds
12:01<SynrG>sicksadworld: look in /var/log/Xorg.0.log for clues as to failure
12:01-!-diego3f [~diego3f@host16.190-136-29.telecom.net.ar] has quit []
12:01<Saskwach>Okay, thanks cahoot and justin__.
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12:01<juhov>Saskwach: did you also make sure nothing is muted in alsamixer? I seem to recall having stuff muted by default (though it probably was ages ago).
12:01<sicksadworld>SynrG: nothing in it, exept, just before klog is stopped, something about mtrr stufss
12:01<Eulenspiegel69>cahoot: you know if he stated anything about the 2nd edition?
12:02<cahoot>Eulenspiegel69: madduck.net
12:02<Biokinetica>Does debian's current kernel support TRIM?
12:02<SynrG>sicksadworld: if there is no sign of failure, check for presence of X process:
12:02<SynrG>pgrep -l X
12:02<babilen>sicksadworld: Is the X server still working? (can you, for example, zap it or interact in another way?) -- My next prime suspect would be KMS, try if the baheviour changes if you disable that.
12:02<sicksadworld>babilen: kms disabled (intel inside)
12:02-!-diego3f [~eLdiegoT@host16.190-136-29.telecom.net.ar] has joined #debian
12:03<SynrG>KMS is recommended with intel
12:03<sicksadworld>babilen: kms disabled (intel gpu inside)
12:03<SynrG>why have you disabled it?
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12:03<sicksadworld>because it's hang with intel driver, and i run vesa instead , known bug on debian release notes
12:03<SynrG>(except for the crappy Poulsbo ... i truly hope you don't have that)
12:03<SynrG>or if you have one of the horrible i8xx ...
12:04<sicksadworld>yes...i have
12:04<Eulenspiegel69>cahoot: can't find anything about the book in his posts
12:04<SynrG>sicksadworld: so sad :(
12:04<sicksadworld>00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 82845G/GL[Brookdale-G]/GE Chipset Integrated Graphics Device (rev 01)
12:04<cahoot>Eulenspiegel69: email/ask?
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12:04<sicksadworld>and X seems to be slower with kms
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12:05<Eulenspiegel69>cahoot: the reason I asked here is because this is a channel where I thought insiders could answer faster...
12:05<cahoot>ok
12:05<SynrG>sicksadworld: so ... check for any bugs against vesa driver relating to this, i guess.
12:05<Eulenspiegel69>cahoot: I guess I am not the only one Debian user awaiting the book
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12:06<sicksadworld>SynrG: yes :/
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12:06<ompaul>Eulenspiegel69: correct, however if you visit your book seller you can make your choices from there.
12:06-!-james is now known as Guest1263
12:07*sicksadworld go to buy an low budget nvidia card...
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12:07<sicksadworld>it's not *mandatory* to run kms ?
12:08<Eulenspiegel69>ompaul: my bookseller can't tell me anything about the book's release date
12:08<SynrG>sicksadworld: or ati. i am happy with my fanless radeon hd4350 with the 'radeon' driver
12:08<babilen>no, surely not.
12:08<sicksadworld>ok
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12:08<SynrG>sicksadworld: it even does some GL with the free driver. i don't think nouveau will give you that.
12:08<ompaul>Eulenspiegel69: when it gets closer it can
12:09-!-mode/#debian [+l 511] by debhelper
12:09<SynrG>and it is priced quite reasonably
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12:09<Biokinetica>Does no one have an answer to my question?
12:09<sicksadworld>SynrG: i guess vrms will tell me i'm not all free, i'll run nvidia blob drivers...as they run correctly
12:10<sicksadworld>oh yeah the TRIM stuff
12:10<SynrG>sicksadworld: http://www.canadapost.ca/shopper/items/4841398/Sapphire-HD-4350-PCIE-512MB-VCSAPHD4350HDMI
12:11<SynrG>that's mine
12:11<sicksadworld>by the way does debian 6 /kernel can stand those ssd ? TRIM & leveveller stuff
12:11<sicksadworld>SynrG: troubles free ?
12:11<SynrG>i have a vertex 2 and no problems with it.
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12:11<sicksadworld>SynrG: wich driver in X ?
12:12<SynrG>the kids have not complained ... and the system doesn't crash with the hd4350 or anything
12:12<SynrG>'radeon'
12:12<ompaul>Biokinetica: you should look here http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-kernel-advances/index.html you might have to qualify your question more
12:12<sicksadworld>ok
12:12<SynrG>the play tremulous on it reasonably well
12:12<SynrG>of course it's not a really outstanding performer as a gaming card, but certainly decent for what it gets used for.
12:12<sicksadworld>i dont game
12:13<SynrG>and the price was right. plus i'm tired of GPU fans failing :P
12:13<sicksadworld>i just want an releable X working
12:13<SynrG>sure. but some apps use GL so it's nice to have
12:13<sicksadworld>game...under linux... :)
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12:14<Biokinetica>ompaul, I don't know how simplify it any further. I have an SSD and want to make sure a linux distro won't destroy it be not handling the memory properly.
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12:15<sicksadworld>Biokinetica: i never have any answer about this, so i never bought any ssd :/
12:15<sicksadworld>but i wich to have a small one
12:15<sicksadworld>for picture gimp retouching
12:15<ompaul>Biokinetica: I have been running linux kernels since around .28 on SSD netbooks however trick one is not to build swap into such a box
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12:18<jhutchins_kc>The other problem with linux is logging.
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12:22<Biokinetica>@ompaul it seems as though 2.6.28 supports it. Which kernel is the current distro using?
12:22<jhutchins>,kernels
12:22<judd>Available kernel versions are: experimental: 2.6.37-trunk-686 (2.6.37-1~experimental.1); sid: 2.6.32-5-686 (2.6.32-30); wheezy: 2.6.32-5-686 (2.6.32-30); squeeze: 2.6.32-5-686 (2.6.32-30); lenny-backports: 2.6.32-bpo.5-686 (2.6.32-30~bpo50+1); lenny: 2.6.26-2-686 (2.6.26-26lenny2)
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12:24<Biokinetica>judd: I assume "wheezy" is the current distro?
12:24<SynrG>it is "testing"
12:24<SynrG>squeeze is the current stable release.
12:24<jhutchins>Biokinetica: No.
12:25<SynrG>wheezy is the next release, just starting to be prepared.
12:25<sicksadworld>new kernel, new grub2, let's see if it boot :/
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12:25<SynrG>see http://www.debian.org/releases/ for details
12:25<Biokinetica>I've never used debian, so I'm not familiar with what goes on with it. I've only tried kubuntu and ubuntu.
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12:28<jhutchins>Biokinetica: Squeeze just released as stable last weekend. Wheezy has begun testing as the next release. sid/unstable is the repository where programs begin the progress of entering the testing release - essentially they are tested by themselves before integrating with the release. Some packages are available as experimental, these may or may not enter the process.
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12:29<jhutchins>Biokinetica: Since squeeze just released, a lot of people are still running lenny, now labeled "oldstable".
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12:29<toni>Hi!
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12:31<Biokinetica> I see; I've been wondering about the benefits of debian over ubuntu's variants, and am still undecided. I plan to use a distro in my old laptop, but need to verify a few things first.
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12:32<Biokinetica>Chief among them, whether or not windows programming can be done without hassle on linux. Never tried it.
12:32<babilen>Biokinetica: What else do you need to know?
12:32-!-dutchfish [~wil@541CF61E.cm-5-5d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving]
12:32<babilen>Biokinetica: You mean programming for Microsoft Windows?
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12:33<Biokinetica>Yeah; I have programming homework, but our instructor only excepts windows executables.
12:34<babilen>Biokinetica: She/He wants executables?
12:35<Biokinetica>Yeah. You know, console programs?
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12:36<toni>I've just taken the plunge and upgraded from Lenny to Squeeze, and now I'm trying to get a few warts sorted out.
12:36<babilen>Biokinetica: It still doesn't make sense to hand in the compiled executables as opposed to the source code. Which language do you program in? I guess you could develop for .NET or JVM and hand in executable that run on Windows and Linux. You'll just want be able to make use of Windows system calls on Linux
12:37<babilen>toni: Wonderful :)
12:37<toni>#1: My locale settings are f*cked up. I have LANG=en_EN.utf-8, also system-wide, but now get all dialogues in German.
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12:37<toni>babilen: I had testing running on other machines, and yes, there it is "wonderful". Only on this box, it is rather half-way good. @*(&#(@)&$!~!!!]
12:38<Biokinetica>We have to give her both. She'll accept the source code at minimum, but wants both.
12:38<babilen>toni: Try "en_US.utf-8" or "en_GB.utf8" or one listed by "locale -a|grep en_"
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12:39<babilen>Biokinetica: In which language do you develop?
12:39<toni>babilen: sorry, I _have_ en_US.utf8
12:39<Nemoder>Biokinetica: it's possible to crosscompile with mingw32 but if you are given projects that require something like visualC you may be better off using windows, or running windows in a vm
12:39<Biokinetica>C++
12:39<toni>that other statement was from my leaking memory
12:39<babilen>toni: What does "locale" print?
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12:40<babilen>Biokinetica: Ask her to compile it herself. Provide a makefile or use a different build-tool, or ask her to give you access to a windows machine on which you can build.
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12:41<toni>babilen: http://pastie.org/1559859
12:41<amakusa>some mirrors are not working properly, I think
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12:42<Biokinetica>I'm on a windows computer right now. I just want to be able to do the assignments on all machines at once.
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12:43<babilen>Biokinetica: You can develop in C++ quite wonderfully on Linux and it is a good platform for development. I would ask in #c++ for tips on how you can deal with the different platforms.
12:43<babilen>Biokinetica: #c++ on irc.freenode.net that is
12:44-!-sicksadworld [~sicksadwo@81.255.37.125] has joined #debian
12:44<sicksadworld>how to add an working entry to grub2, squeeze ?
12:44<sicksadworld>update-grub2 add some, but it fails at boot
12:44<jordanm>sicksadworld: fails how?
12:44-!-dutchfish [~wil@541CF61E.cm-5-5d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #debian
12:45<sicksadworld>jordanm: dont boot
12:45<sicksadworld>jordanm: vfs blah blah
12:45<babilen>Biokinetica: Which class is this for?
12:45<sicksadworld>jordanm: on device x,x
12:45<jordanm>sicksadworld: what is the actual error?
12:45<toni>ok... I now also have a semi-broken keyboard layout and some font problems, in addition to the locales problem.
12:45<Biokinetica>CSC 275...
12:46<sicksadworld>i have to fail the boot to find back the actual error
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12:46<sicksadworld>back to fail
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12:47<Vespasian>Sorry, wrong key.
12:48<babilen>toni: You probably want to re-run "dpkg-reconfigure locales" and generate and set the default system locale. It might just be enough and you don't have to "export" your locales as well.
12:48<babilen>toni: How do you set your keyboard layout?
12:48<toni>babilen: i have locales-all installed, too, and en_US.utf8 set as the default locale
12:48<babilen>toni: Are we talking about X the console or both here?
12:48<toni>Currently, we're mostly talking about X
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12:50<toni>So far, I set my keyboard using 'xmodmap', because I have no real clue how to do it with setxkbmap the way I want (easy access to different locales w/o switching the whole layout everytime)
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12:51<jhutchins>,versions iceweasel
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12:51<judd>Package iceweasel on i386 -- lenny: 3.0.6-3; lenny-security: 3.0.6-3; lenny-backports: 3.5.16-4~bpo50+1; sid: 3.5.16-4; squeeze: 3.5.16-4; wheezy: 3.5.16-4; experimental: 3.6.13-2
12:51<babilen>toni: And "LC_ALL=C aptitude foo" gives German output? What about "LC_ALL=en_US.utf8 aptitude foo" ? (what about LANG instead of LC_ALL)
12:51<jhutchins>Anybody know how to get on-line turbotax to work with iceweasel (lenny-backports)?
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12:52<toni>babilen: The pastie shows the current settings, which include LANG=en_US.utf8
12:52<babilen>toni: Are you using some desktop environment?
12:52<heinzes>how can I set the mysql password on squeeze? I tried dpkg-reconfigure mysql-server-5.1, which asks, but I cannot enter anything. How can I check/set it otherwise?
12:52<toni>babilen: No, I'm using straight X11 + fvwm, but see the problem in both Qt apps (eg. psi), and in GTK+ apps (iceweasel).
12:52<babilen>toni: So, you get *German* output for all four commands?
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12:53<babilen>!tell toni -about keymap
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12:53<babilen>toni: Which keymaps do you need? Here is, for example, my /etc/default/keyboard and I can easily switch between keymaps with "ALT+SHIFT"
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12:54<babilen>toni: http://paste.debian.net/107503/ -- no need to define new keymaps
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12:56<toni>babilen: nope. I have eg. this: US keyboard layout by default, but "Escape" mapped on the key labelled "Scroll lock", and German Umlauts on "AltGr-<key>", according to their labelling. And some more tweaks of this kind...
12:58<toni>or rather, i don't quite understand what you were writing...
12:58*toni investigating babilen's advice
12:58<babilen>toni: Sounds like a job for sane default keymaps in /etc/default/keyboard + ~/.Xmodmap for special keys.
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12:59<babilen>toni: and really? "LANG=C aptitude foo" gives you German output?
12:59<sney>I thought it was LOCALE=C
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13:00<babilen>no
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13:03<heinzes>how can I set the mysql admin password on squeeze? I tried dpkg-reconfigure mysql-server-5.1, it does not seem to work.
13:04<astronut>i just got a new minipc, nvidia ion based, and the hdmi audio card doesn't seem to be detected
13:04<astronut>alsamixer sees it as a card with no options but aplay -L doesn't show it
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13:06<jordanm>!forgot mysql root password
13:06<dpkg>If you've forgotten the <MySQL> root password, /etc/init.d/mysql stop; mysqld --skip-grant-tables; mysql -u root; use mysql; UPDATE user SET Password=PASSWORD('mynewpassword') WHERE User='root'; FLUSH PRIVILEGES; C-d; stop mysqld; /etc/init.d/mysql start, or http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/resetting-permissions.html, or <mysql initial password>
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13:06<toni>babilen: No, when I say "aptitude something", I get the desired output in English, but (eg.) in psi, my menues are suddenly in German, and in Iceweasel, if I press 'Ctrl-Q', I get a dialog box in German, too. But I just checked with other apps, and I mostly get English language menues.
13:06<toni>Uhhh... :(
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13:06<babilen>hmm?
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13:13<toni>have to quit, my keyboard is now really bad (eg. no cursor keys).
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13:15<heinzes>jordanm: on UPDATE user..., I get Rows matched: 0 Changed: 0 Warnings: 0, so it did not work?
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13:15<jordanm>heinzes: nope
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13:18<heinzes>if I do SELECT User from user; I only get debian-sys-maint. Does this mean I do not have an admin user? How do I get one? And why is it not created when I install mysql?
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13:20<linuxxx>my minimal debian installation is using netinst with any options selected at taskel and to install the minimal gnome i install xorg gnome-core and gdm packages is that the minimal i can have? or i can get more minimal gnome installation?
13:22<jordanm>having a full DE is kind of the point of gnome...
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13:25<Tiff>"minimal" and "gnome" make an odd paring.
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13:26<sney>indeed, if I wanted a minimal gtk+ desktop on squeeze, I'd use xfce.
13:26<sney>oh wait, that is what I do. carry on
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13:30<linuxxx>the minimal desktop enviroment which u recommend is?
13:30<sahko>the linux console
13:31<linuxxx>¬¬
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13:32<Nemoder>XFCE is a good balance between easy to use and minimal.
13:32<babilen>Or X + a reasonable light window manager (fluxbox, openbox, wmii, awesomewm, e17, xmonad, ...) or one of the lighter desktop environments like LXDE or XFCE
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13:33<babilen>I heard that a bunch of people like LXDE .... all of the projects above are worth a look though ..
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13:33<SpeareN>Anybody have any idea how I can change the console resolution?
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13:36<jhutchins>SpeareN: From what? To what? On what? For what?
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13:36<SpeareN>jhutchins: on debian. from the current resolution. to any other resolution.
13:37<bartm>SpeareN, http://vivapinkfloyd.blogspot.com/2008/06/how-to-change-console-resolution.html
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13:37<bartm>SpeareN, I found that via google with keywords "console resolution" :)
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13:38<SpeareN>is that how that works?
13:38<SpeareN>let me check it out before the smugness ensues :-P
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13:39<astronut>can anyone help me? my nvidia audio device (for HDMI output) on my GT-128 is not being fully detected by alsa
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13:39<SpeareN>thanks bartm
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13:42<matlads>try qlwm
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13:43<linuxxx>what u recommend desktop enviroment or window manager?
13:44<linuxxx>i dont understand the difference w
13:44<linuxxx>*between them at all
13:44<Tiff>linuxxx: there are so many you'll get different answers from pretty much anyone you ask. At the end of the day it boils down to personal preference and the only way you'll discover the one for you is by trying some out.
13:45<linuxxx>can u tell me the difference?
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13:45<matlads>linuxxx: read up and then try some.
13:45<linuxxx>i read on the internet but i don't understand
13:45<Tiff>Google can give you many reviews/previous.
13:45-!-aroundthfur [~change@SE400.PPPoE-1990.sa.bih.net.ba] has joined #debian
13:45<Tiff>* previews
13:45<bartm>linuxxx, try them, really
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13:45<Tiff>^ This
13:46<linuxxx>butt whats the difference between DE and WM?
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13:47<sahko>DE = WM + cruft
13:47<jhutchins>A window manager manages the drawing and placement of windows on the desktop. It usually supplies the buttons that are on the window frame and handles moving, resizing, minimizing, closing, window-shading and things like that.
13:47-!-torjeh [~torjeh@228.38.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #debian
13:47<jhutchins>Most include an application menu and some other accessories.
13:48<linuxxx>what's cruft? sorry im spanish
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13:48<sahko>bloat/applications
13:48<jhutchins>A Desktop Environment includes a window manager, accessories such as taskbars and menus, and usually a suite of applets and/or full applications.
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13:48<linuxxx>so the real minimal will be a WM?
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13:48<sahko>if gnome was only metacity and maybe the panel too, it would be a wm. everything else is what make it a de
13:48<Nemoder>file managers, system monitor widgets, desktop themes
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13:49<jhutchins>Actually, you go go further and just run applications on the Xserver, but you'll probably want a WM.
13:49<linuxxx>so i understand DE = WM + applications
13:49<jhutchins>linuxxx: Pretty much.
13:49<Tiff>DE is a suite of tools.
13:49<Nemoder>i would say integrated applications
13:49<matlads>A window manager controls the way your desktop works: how the windows look and act.
13:49<Tiff>WM is one tool usually part of that suite.
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13:50<matlads>a desktop environment may provide you with a taskbar, additional menus, icons on the desktop, screen savers, and many little utility programs like a graphical file manager
13:50<Nemoder>running gimp with a full DE is no different than running it with a WM but the DE will make it easier to say move files around from usb devices or change your network settings without having to use console tools
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13:51<sahko>Nemoder: you're right, intergrated applications
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13:56<sturmer_>hello everybody, i hope i'm not interrupting. i'd need to ask a question about a debian package, "refdb".
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13:56<matlads>@dpkg refdb
13:57<babilen>,info refdb
13:57<judd>No record of package 'refdb' in squeeze/i386.
13:57<chugun>hello everyone. Anyone know, have the ejabberd offical irc chanel?
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13:57<babilen>sturmer_: What is your question?
13:57<sturmer_>the package used to be maintained by a David Nebauer until 2008 (the source of this information is the upstream developer, Markus Hoenicka)
13:57<babilen>,versions refdb
13:57<judd>Sorry, no package named 'refdb' was found in i386.
13:57<sturmer_>i wanted to know if i can help as a new maintainer, i think through a sponsor
13:58<sturmer_>i know, it's not in the current list of packages
13:58<babilen>sturmer_: You want to adopt it?
13:58<Nemoder>!mg
13:58<dpkg>The New Maintainer's Guide (http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/), Developer's Reference and Policy document how packages should be made and how they should interact with each other. Ask me about <package basics>, <mentors>, <policy>, <best practices> or see http://www.debian.org/devel/ , http://wiki.debian.org/Courses2005/BuildingWithoutHelper
13:58<bartm>chugun, http://www.ejabberd.im/chatroom
13:58<sturmer_>yes i do
13:58<jhutchins>sturmer_: Your first step would probably be to work out building a .deb from the upstream sources (possibly using the old package as an example).
13:59-!-mode/#debian [+l 515] by debhelper
13:59<sturmer_>right. should i make my effort public on any ml to be sure no one is making duplicated effort, or does that come after the successful packaging?
13:59<chugun>bartm, thanks
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14:00<babilen>sturmer_: The old packaging is likely to be old though (policy version, old source format, etc) -- But the proper channel to discuss this is #debian-mentors
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14:00<sturmer_>ok, i'll switch to that channel. thank you.
14:00<babilen>sturmer_: No problem, see you there :)
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14:05<juhaj>Is there any way to find out what is causing my laptop to do excessive amounts of swapping? There is not much memory used (and if I close all programs except X and my WM, the behaviour remains) and there is > 600MB of cache and just 32 MB "free" (excluding cache).
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14:06-!-Porcelain [~dont@p5DCCACB2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:06<bartm>juhaj, use "top"
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14:07<juhaj>bartm: As if that would help... The problem is cache which does not get freed no matter how much a program needs memory. If I try to use a couple of hundred MB of memory with two programs, they keep getting swapped in and out instead of the kernel letting some of its disk cache go. The question is why?
14:08<juhaj>Even swappiness = 0 and echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches have no effect
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14:10<ceallach>I have installed debian 6.0 on my netbook, but somehow it only boots if my usb (from which i installed it) is plugged in. After removing the stick the system still is working, can somebody tell me what might have happend there?
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14:10<ompaul>juhaj: if you are running a machine that swaps out you need to look at your ram :)
14:10<ompaul>you obviously need more of it
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14:14<juhaj>ompaul: No, I do not. That's what I am trying to explain.
14:15<juhaj>ompaul: There is quite enough ram to keep two 100MB processes running instead of being swapped in and out continuously.
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14:17<acu>juhaj: you have to look top (or install htop) monitoring (or go in GNOME- System Tools - System Monitor and see what is going on) - of course you can also look at /var/log/syslog or dmesg - that is the begining -
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14:17<juhaj>ompaul: From "free", there is over 700 MB of free momeory, most of that in the disc cache. But the kernel refuses to reduce the cache, instead swaps in/out all the time. The usability of the machine is ~0 with X, IceWeasel and two instances of python running (these pythons are the ones swapping in/out). Obviously there are all kinds of ther stuff, like dbus etc in the background, but they consume little memory.
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14:18<SynrG>maybe some of the tuning you've done makes it behave badly?
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14:18<acu>juhaj: that will allow you to sort out what resources access what - though I am not familiar with "new" ways - if you have a database (postgresql or other serious "Oracle" - it is almost "required" to have your swap file double than ammount of RAm
14:18<juhaj>acu: No. None of those tell me why the kernel refuses to reduce the cache. With swappiness set to zero, it should prefer reducing the cache over swapping, but it does not.
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14:19<ompaul>juhaj: paste free into pastebin.debian.net so we may see it please.
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14:20<acu>juhaj: what do you mean ? kernel refuses to reduce the cache ? How much RAM do you have - what system do you run CPU - version of debian - swap size file etch
14:21<juhaj>http://pastebin.com/6Vu4bVwa
14:21<acu>what are the messages in syslog and dmesg
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14:22<juhaj>acu: Nothing interesting in dmesg/logs, ram and swap are in that pastebin url, system is core2duo (lenovo X200s), debian/sid (but the kernel is an "old" 2.6.36 from experimental)
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14:23<valdyn>juhaj: whats the problem in that it refuses to reduce what cache?
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14:23<acu>juhaj: it is clear that you have something which uses your memory - so you have 2 GB RAM and 4 GB swap file
14:24<bluenemo>is there a glob $ for lxterminal, gnome-terminal, and all the other gui terminals?
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14:24<SynrG>x-terminal-emulator
14:24<acu>juhaj = you need first to look in system monitor (or htop) paste there here
14:24<juhaj>A slightly older slabinfo is here: http://pastebin.com/zDxQXpj1
14:25<bluenemo>SynrG, ah cool thx :D
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14:25<SynrG>or did you mean PS1? :)
14:25<SynrG>your question was somewhat ambiguous
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14:26<juhaj>valdyn: Excessive swapping even with swappiness=0; if I start two python's who take 100MB both, they start being swapped in/out continously. Same happens with aobut any program I start
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14:26<bluenemo>SynrG, PS1?
14:26<SynrG>the variable containing the pattern to produce the shell prompt
14:26<SynrG>er, format string, that is
14:26<acu>juhaj: make it easy for us - just go to GNOME - Applications -System Tools - Systme monitor - and click on Memory (so it sorts by the memory use) then do a CTRL+PrntScrn and paste it
14:26<SynrG>(it occurred to me as another possible answer for your vaguely formulated question)
14:27<valdyn>juhaj: maybe its not really 100mb, maybe you hit a very serious bug
14:27<bluenemo>wow i dont quite get the output of echo PS1 but you answered my question fine, sry for not being accurate
14:27<ompaul>in which case a newer sid kernel might be good
14:27<acu>exactly so - he needs first to see what it "eating" the memory
14:28<SynrG>bluenemo: "a glob $" (the thing the globlly defines the "$" prompt string) "... for lxterminal, etc."
14:28<juhaj>acu: I do not have gnome. I cannot run it, there is not enough memory for it. It just causes lots of swapping! Same applies to ~all programs. I do not have htop installed, so you'll have to live with top output since installing htop would freeze the machine for ~15 minutes.
14:28<valdyn>juhaj: i would like to see the output for top or similar before anything else
14:28<bluenemo>SynrG, ah ok i c, thank you :)
14:28<SynrG>bluenemo: anyway, you can use x-terminal-emulator with update-alternatives to change the default if that's what you were driving at
14:28<juhaj>valdyn: coming...
14:29<ompaul>juhaj: you should work with people and stop telling them they are wrong, if they don't have the machine or the access or the history with the box you do then how are they to know what is going on, you feed them piece meal they will just say - sorry we don't work for you hire a consultant
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14:29<valdyn>juhaj: i dont know how you want to be able to see how much memory the python systems use each on such thrashed system
14:29<acu>juhaj: what machine is this ? - a critical server you cannot reinstall everything ? - if so - just accept that sid is unstable :)
14:29<valdyn>juhaj: unless you use a memory debugger
14:29<bluenemo>SynrG, i'm writing a shell script that spawns another terminal.. i just found that this needs adaption when using gnome & lxde4 :)
14:29<ompaul>acu: it is a laptop
14:30<SynrG>ah. if you want it to be distro-neutral, don't rely on x-terminal-emulator.
14:30<SynrG>otherwise, using that is fine
14:30<acu>juhaj: if nothing is critical in that installation - do yourself a favor and install squeeze :)
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14:30<juhaj>acu: Well, reboot does not help, it simply starts doing this again. I doubt reinstall would either. And reinstalling everything is pita, that's why I left windows over 15 years ago! =)
14:30<valdyn>juhaj: thanks to the mmap system call top output can be near worthless
14:31<metalfreak>I'm looking at the Security issues page and it says to add deb http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates main contrib non-free to /etc/apt/sources.list which makes sense but I'm wondering why the security updates are non-free?
14:31<acu>juhaj: for experimentation - I would strongly recommend you to learn virtualization (kvm perhaps) and run your unstable machines so you can clone them easily - and discard the nonfunctional ones )
14:31<juhaj>ompaul: Well, I will give you peacemeal, but I really tried to ask a question: how to figure out why it does not release the cache. I did not phrase it correctly, though, I admit that.
14:31<juhaj>valdyn, acu: Do you want top output memory or cpu sorted?
14:32<valdyn>juhaj: both would work too
14:32<acu>juhaj: what is pita ? -- as long you run UNSTABLE - whatever you mean by pita is pita
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14:32<acu>memory sorted
14:32<valdyn>juhaj: either can be useless in theory
14:32<valdyn>juhaj: but practically ill see soon anyway
14:33<acu>juhaj: you have to pinpoint to the memory hog - that is number one - whether is kernel or some application etc - usually the syslog and dmesg are preety useful
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14:34<juhaj>http://pastebin.com/6LKduUxL and before you start telling me to kill krunner et al, please be advised that it does not help (tried that already)
14:34-!-ompaul is now known as ompau
14:34*ompau awards self typo of the month
14:34-!-ompau is now known as ompaul
14:34<juhaj>acu: There's nothing in syslog or dmesg which helps me. You want to read them through?
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14:36<ompaul>juhaj: kill -9 11060
14:36<acu>juhaj: first of all you have a ZOMBIE
14:36<valdyn>juhaj: this system is *idle*
14:36<valdyn>juhaj: this is not a system showing *any* problem of thrashing swap
14:36-!-foolano [~magnetic@98.Red-88-19-7.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #debian
14:36<juhaj>valdyn: Now it is idle, yes, of course! It becomes totally impossible to use if anything actually runs
14:36<valdyn>juhaj: if it was then it would be have a high % if wa
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14:37<valdyn>juhaj: well, right now nothing is wrong, so how are we supposed to see your problem and fix it?
14:37<juhaj>valdyn: During the thrasing, the system is *frozen* (like I already told you), so I cannot get you the data from during a thrash
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14:37<valdyn>juhaj: basically youre telling us "hey i have a program that can make my system unresponsive"
14:37<valdyn>juhaj: guess what, *I* do too
14:37<juhaj>valdyn: No, I am not asking for you to see what is wrong. I asked how can I tell why the cache is not being freed. What prevents the kernel from releasing it.
14:38<valdyn>juhaj: what cache?
14:38<juhaj>valdyn: No, I do not have "a" program which does that. *ANY* program does that
14:38<juhaj>valdyn: Kernel disk cache
14:38<valdyn>juhaj: it will never be freed when the system is not loaded
14:38<valdyn>juhaj: the only way to free the cache is explicitely doing it or deleting the cached file
14:39<acu>juhaj: I have almost no doubt that is the ZOMBIE program which causes this - I just did not find it in the list - but on the very top it tells you that 1 Zombie is there = if you could sort by memory - I think that will be the top
14:39<juhaj>valdyn: Please read what I write: if I start program(s) which need the memory, the start thrashing because the cache does not get freed. Even though there is load. Even though swappiness==0 and echoing 3 to drop_caches does not reduce the cache either (except by a fer megabytes)
14:39<acu>juhaj: then you kill it :)
14:39<juhaj>valdyn: syncing before drop_caches, of course
14:40<valdyn>juhaj: and you already rebooted? ( sorry if i missed that too )
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14:40<krsna>how to set the formatter for manpages? I have set troff in /etc/manpath.config and done "man -C /etc/manpath.config COMMAND" but it does not work... I want to set troff as the formatter instead of groff
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14:41<juhaj>ompaul: Killing iceweasel does not help. The cache does not get freed that way. I will have some more memory available, but as soon as it runs out, I am in the same situation again. The cache never goes below 600 MB, no matter how much memory pressure there is
14:42<valdyn>juhaj: how did you zombify that gzip program?
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14:43<juhaj>acu: The zombie is a gzip process and ps shows 0 bytes of memory for it (does it not always show that for a zombie?). Let me see if killing its parent helps...
14:43<valdyn>juhaj: thats right, but a zombies resources are not necessarily freed
14:43<valdyn>juhaj: but the real question is how you managed to zombify gzip
14:43<acu>juhaj: I almost certain will solve your problem - is just that there would be few related processes zombies
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14:45<juhaj>valdyn: No idea why it is Z: I was running zless on an ascii file. The zombie went away when I quitted zless
14:45<valdyn>juhaj: be it habitual use of sigkill or maybe an unresponsive IO device
14:45<linuxxx>i installed fluxbox how i start it?
14:45<valdyn>juhaj: ok, what about the cache problem now?
14:46<s_i_m>juhaj, what problem are u trying to solve?
14:46<bartm>s_i_m, page up a few times :)
14:47<s_i_m>bartm, i see they discuss some used cache memory. but really, what problem that causes?
14:48<valdyn>s_i_m: his cache is not dropped for new programs as it should
14:49<s_i_m>linuxxx, do you use gdm?
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14:49<s_i_m>valdyn, i see. that means there should be something that still holds that memory. a process, or the kernel itself.
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14:50<krsna>how to make a package made with checkinstall overwrite parts of another package?
14:51<s_i_m>krsna, that is impossible with dpkg.
14:51<valdyn>krsna: not at all, it does not solve problems
14:51<juhaj>s_i_m: The only processes that I have not restarted while debugging this are X and the kernel itself. (For those who would think otherwise from the top output: I have been working on this for over a month)
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14:52<bartm>juhaj, I hope not fulltime :)
14:52<krsna>s_i_m if not with dpkg then how could i make the package overwrite whatever it takes?
14:52<linuxxx>s_i_m, i have no login manager installed
14:52<juhaj>valdyn: Still there. Just peaked load averages to >8 before got a complete freeze for a while. After the freeze, loads were below 5 again. io wait was > 95%. But cache stays at 600 MB
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14:52<juhaj>bartm: Luckily not
14:52<s_i_m>krsna, you can just use make install. but I would not do that.
14:53<juhaj>acu: Sorry, getting rid of the zombie does not help =(
14:53<krsna>s_i_m i see, thanks!
14:53<krsna>s_i_m how to set the formatter for manpages? I have set troff in /etc/manpath.config and done "man -C /etc/manpath.config COMMAND" but it does not work... I want to set troff as the formatter instead of groff
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14:57<valdyn>juhaj: show us the output of "df -a"
14:58<juhaj>acu: Trawling through the syslog shows up a few interesing lines of this: ata1.00: configured for UDMA/100 -- is that normal for a sata disk? I thought udma/100 was the norm almost a decade ago.
14:58<s_i_m>linuxxx, in this case you should create a ~/.Xsession file.
14:58<valdyn>juhaj: at least i think i just replicated your problem
14:58<juhaj>valdyn: http://pastebin.com/2spKC5Ab
14:58<valdyn>juhaj: but im not sure
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14:58<juhaj>valdyn: What did you do?
14:59<valdyn>juhaj: but thats not yours
14:59<valdyn>juhaj: filled my tmpfs
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14:59<juhaj>acu: There is another curious point, too: that ata1.00 line is always followed by "ata1: EH complete" and "sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Write cache: enabled, read cache: enabled, doesn't support DPO or FUA" -- I do not see these on other machines
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15:00<juhaj>valdyn: What's not mine..?
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15:00<valdyn>juhaj: i cannot see your tmpfs being filled
15:00<linuxxx>s_i_m, how??
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15:00<juhaj>valdyn: Yes, it looks empty to me.
15:00<s_i_m>linuxxx, with any text editor you are comfortable with.
15:00<valdyn>juhaj: but tmpfs memory will show up as cache and you cant drop it
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15:01<s_i_m>linuxxx, it is a script file.
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15:01<juhaj>valdyn: Well, that's news to me and may prove useful someday (though apparently not today), thanks!
15:01<linuxxx>s_i_m, and using qingy?
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15:01<s_i_m>linuxxx, what is that thingy? =)
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15:03<linuxxx>s_i_m, don't know i saw it on the internet
15:03<s_i_m>juhaj, you may want to look into /proc/meminfo and /proc/slabinfo
15:03<linuxxx>s_i_m, its possible i dont have ~/.Xsession ??
15:03<juhaj>valdyn: One thing occurred to me: me .xsession-errors is > 4GB. Could that end up sticking to the cache?
15:04<s_i_m>linuxxx, just create it with any editor.
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15:04<valdyn>juhaj: i dont know, but why dont know just delete it
15:04<linuxxx>s_i_m, and the content?
15:04<s_i_m>put there "fluxbox" (without quotes)
15:04<linuxxx>okk
15:04<juhaj>s_i_m: HAve looked already, nothing there that I could identify as a problem. Look yourself: http://pastebin.com/rdGXzLNg and http://pastebin.com/PRdjTFhq
15:05<juhaj>valdyn: It's open.
15:05<juhaj>valdyn: So while I could delete it, it would not help.
15:05<valdyn>juhaj: so quit X
15:05<Sideways>Hi, does anyone recognize this?:~$ sudo mii-tool
15:05<Sideways>SIOCGMIIREG on eth0 failed: Input/output error
15:05<Sideways>SIOCGMIIREG on eth0 failed: Input/output error
15:05<Sideways>eth0: negotiated 1000baseT-FD flow-control, link ok
15:05<Sideways>.
15:05-!-Sideways was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use http://paste.debian.net or /msg dpkg paste]
15:05<ompaul>yes it is called a kick
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15:06<Sideways_>oops
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15:07<Sideways_>nic works when using live cd, otherwise, no go.
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15:07<juhaj>valdyn: That will be my last resort, yes. But before that I want to exhaust other possibilities. Like X itself being the culprit... (I have a feeling it might be, since there was a very long-standing bug in i915 DRI implementation which caused similar behaviour). Before I go there, though, could you tell me how to prevent it from regrowing (just in case that's the problem)? Symlinking it to /dev/null?
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15:07<juhaj>+please
15:08<valdyn>juhaj: probably
15:08<Sideways_>I dont want to reinstall, anyone know which file controls usb and nic?
15:08<valdyn>juhaj: but you should fix the error logged in there
15:08<juhaj>valdyn: There's no option not to redirect stuff there from kdm?
15:08<valdyn>juhaj: maybe you can also just read that file and see which program is spamming
15:09<juhaj>valdyn: The error is KDE =)
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15:09<juhaj>valdyn: KDE/Qt apps keep spamming it with something which I thought would stop when I turned off all debug stuff from kdebugdialog, but appears not so
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15:12<valdyn>juhaj: you have one app that constantly chews thru 600mb in files or several apps who add up to that
15:12<valdyn>juhaj: ( or alot more than that maybe )
15:12<valdyn>juhaj: my system takes just a few seconds to grow cache from 10 to 600mb
15:14<linuxxx>s_i_m, in ~/.Xsession i wrote: fluxbox and restarted the computer but it starts in command line :(
15:14<s_i_m>and with recent kernels and filesystems also slub eats a lot in a dentry cache. so you do not even need to read files.
15:14<valdyn>linuxxx: thats expected when you dont have xdm or gdm or kdm installed
15:14<juhaj>valdyn: That's one possibility. Just what would that app be, then. Like I said I have restarted everything but X and kernel while working on this. So I cannot see how it could be anything but either one of those. And I fail to see why either would do that. Therefore I tend to believe it is either a kernel or X bug. But I lack the means of finding out if that is so.
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15:14<valdyn>linuxxx: and those 2 programs wont do much either before xorg is installed and configured
15:15<valdyn>juhaj: one X program, like kde
15:15<babilen>linuxxx: You want "exec fluxbox" in ~/.xsession (if started from login manager) and ~/.xinitrc (if started with startx) just symlink one to the other (my suggestion)
15:15<s_i_m>linuxxx, in your configuration you login and start X with startx command.
15:15<valdyn>linuxxx: or just use gdm and select fluxbox, and dont use the config file
15:15<babilen>or that
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15:16<juhaj>valdyn: All kde programs have been restarted, down to kded
15:17<borja>TYJ
15:17<juhaj>(I'm not running kde, just some kde apps)
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15:19<valdyn>juhaj: lvm can use alot of ram too
15:19<valdyn>juhaj: depending on what youre doing
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15:19<linuxxx>s_i_m, sorry im little confused its not possible to start x without gdm or kdm?
15:20<valdyn>linuxxx: thats programs that show a login screen
15:20<valdyn>linuxxx: but you can start X with the command "startx" too
15:20<amphi>linuxxx: you can start X with, er, startx
15:21<valdyn>juhaj: read: http://www.spinics.net/lists/lvm/msg17156.html
15:21<linuxxx>is there any way that startx command is executed at startup?
15:21<valdyn>linuxxx: no
15:21<valdyn>linuxxx: thats a stupid idea, because gdm is made for this
15:22<linuxxx>but gdm is a login manager no?
15:22<linuxxx>i only have one user
15:22<valdyn>linuxxx: so set it to log in autmatically
15:22<babilen>ugh
15:22<bartm>linuxxx, install gdm and configure "auto login"
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15:22<linuxxx>yes this is what i do with the other computer
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15:24<s_i_m>linuxxx, you may imitate a login with su and startx from within inittab. or just install nodm.
15:25<juhaj>valdyn: I do not currently have any snapshots. I use lvm just to dynamically add space to filesystems (I leace half the disk unused initially for this - I never seem able to predict where I need more space and when)
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15:29<linuxxx>s_i_m, at /etc/inittab at the end i put su and then startx and reboot but doesn't work
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15:34<linuxxx>s_i_m, to make autologin at command line?
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15:35*babilen cries
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15:35<linuxxx>installiing gdm if i use autologin and only have one user has sense?
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15:35<amphi>linuxxx: why are you doing this? why ntot just log in at a console and run startx?
15:35<s_i_m>linuxxx, well, do not destroy your system.
15:35<s_i_m>linuxxx, aptitude install nodm.
15:36<juhaj>valdyn: Pheww! X just shrunk from >900MB to just over 300 MB and half my cache was freed.
15:36<amphi>linuxxx: also, better not to crosspost
15:36<linuxxx>amphi, i want autologin and auto startx
15:36<amphi>why?
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15:37<juhaj>valdyn: That's VSZ, not RSS, but since X often got into uninterruptible sleep I assume it got lots of paging in/out going on. Now at least a more significant portion of X can always sit in memory
15:37<linuxxx>because i like xd
15:37<amphi>xd?
15:37<juhaj>valdyn: What did I do? swapoff -a
15:37<s_i_m>linuxxx, install nodm, that is what you want.
15:38<linuxxx>s_i_m, ok
15:38<linuxxx>amphi, xd is like an emoticion
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15:38<jwkokc>s_i_m, can nodm be configured to start as other than root? if so, how? google didn't show much.
15:38<amphi>not very like, IMHO
15:39<s_i_m>jwkokc, I am pretty sure it can.
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15:40<s_i_m>actually, on this notebook I am running X from inittab. that suffices for me. but once I considered nodm too.
15:41<jwkokc>s_i_m, i'll try it in my VM copy of squeeze and see if it has a man page.
15:42<s_i_m>and, of course, I am not running X a root =)
15:42<EZmoney>rungetty might work for auto login http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=29333
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15:42<neglected>hi
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15:43<sney>hi
15:43<dvs>sney: you're suppose to ignore him! ;-)
15:44*sney shrug
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15:44<linuxxx>s_i_m, ok i installed nodm and configured it and works as i want :)
15:45<neglected>i'm installing debian via netinst for first time on a virtual machine
15:45<s_i_m>good then
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15:46<neglected>and... print server =/= printing support, right? i can leave packages unmarked i think
15:46<Yvemath>how to change the refresh rate and resolution that i get in linux multi-user mode ?
15:46<jwkokc>s_i_m, yes, it can be set in /etc/default/nodm but defaults to root.
15:46<Yvemath>i.e. without X.
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15:47<linuxxx>do u recommend network-manager-gnome or another?
15:47<D3M0N>Can someone here possibly tell me the zlib1g version i need for mono 2.6.7?
15:47<s_i_m>jwkokc, does not it ask a debconf question on the first install?
15:48<s_i_m>linuxxx, if you had enough knowledge, then I would recommend wpa-supplicant.
15:48<jwkokc>s_i_m, no, it did NOT when I ran "apt-get install nodm" but just wrote the defaults. fortunately it also defaulted to "disabled" so nothing bad happened.
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15:49<s_i_m>jwkokc, ok. I tried it long time ago, so I do not remember all details.
15:49<linuxxx>s_i_m, it uses command line?
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15:50<s_i_m>linuxxx, it is daemon. once configured it works forever.
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15:50<linuxxx>s_i_m, i want gui version
15:50<s_i_m>as most good unix style utilities.
15:50<s_i_m>well, there is wpa-gui also.
15:51<linuxxx>s_i_m, ok i will install wpa-gui
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15:52<s_i_m>linuxxx, the package name is without the dash.
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16:00<cusco>test
16:00<cusco>hi
16:00-!-cusco is now known as Guest1284
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16:00<Guest1284>say.. I'm wanting to download some packages to a computer so I transfer to another computer without internet access
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16:01<Guest1284>hmm
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16:03<JesperCheetah>Guest1284: I never had those needs myself. But maybe apt-offline is what you're looking for
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16:09<rachet>hola
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16:13<rachet>hola soy el alex y e averiguado como acermelo
16:13<rachet>el chat
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16:15<nr9nb9no9>i have a lenny install now and have been using aptitude for quite a while on it--after i modify the sources.lst for squeeze--should i continue using aptitude or use apt-get?
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16:18<devil>nr9nb9no9: whatever you prefer
16:19-!-mode/#debian [+l 507] by debhelper
16:19<agentc>nr9nb9no9: after modi. the sources.list, i used apt-get update / apt-get upgrade / apt-get dist-update ... then reboot
16:19<s_i_m>nr9nb9no9, AFAIK, current apt and aptitude only differ with respect to the database of the packages on hold.
16:20<s_i_m>if you do not have such, than you may use both.
16:20<nr9nb9no9>is it just as simple as using kate--replacing every instance of 'lenny' with 'squeeze' ?
16:21<s_i_m>yes, if your configuration is simple (no pinning, etc)
16:21<nr9nb9no9>yass no pinning
16:21<tash>!apt-get
16:21<dpkg>apt-get is a program (part of the apt package) used as a simple command line tool to libapt. apt-get is the original frontend for <apt> but <aptitude> is now the recommended tool for managing packages. See also <why aptitude>, <reference>, <synaptic>, <apt-cache>, <gdebi>. http://wiki.debian.org/apt-get
16:21<juhaj>Ok, so, my laptop is very nice and responsive again. Does anybody have any idea why a simple swapoff -a would make such a huge difference? As I understand kernel swapping logic, it should not
16:22<nr9nb9no9>corruption in the part of your hdd with the swap file?
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16:24<juhaj>nr9nb9no9: Now that's a new theory. Could be, but smart has been silent
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16:24<juhaj>nr9nb9no9: That does not explain the amount of swapping that was happening, though
16:24<nr9nb9no9>just a thought--corruption/bad sectors
16:25<tash>is there any not painfull way to get some composes keystrokes for the tilded vowels and the tilded N ?
16:25<tash>and the inverted '?'
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16:25<tash>am using ansi dvorak
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16:26<nr9nb9no9>i suppose also that if i upgrade to squeeze i am going to have to use kde4 from now on (if i want to continue using kde) ?
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16:27<s_i_m>nr9nb9no9, I guess, yes.
16:28<D3M0N>???
16:28<nr9nb9no9><<instant gnome convert :)
16:29<D3M0N>anyone tlel me how to get completely rid of mono?
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16:32<D3M0N>anyone at all???
16:33<s_i_m>D3M0N, uninstall it and all of it forward and reverse dependencies?
16:33<D3M0N>apt-get remove mono-2.6.7 doesnt work :/
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16:34<nr9nb9no9>would apt-get --purge remove mono* be too broad an axe?
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16:37<D3M0N>nr9
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16:37<D3M0N>vps-1039333-2900:~# apt-get --purge remove mono*
16:37<D3M0N>E: Couldn't find package mono2.6.7
16:37<nr9nb9no9>that was a question to wiser heads D3M0N---not advice
16:37<meebey>its good enough to remove a single package, apt will automatically removes all other that depend on it
16:38-!-dvs [~me@cwv.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:38<D3M0N>:/ well, can you help with a command that will possibly remove mono completely?
16:38<rpetre>D3M0N: you have a mono2.6.7 file or directory in your current directory by any chance?
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16:39<D3M0N>in my main dir, yes
16:39<meebey>if you want to install mono 2.6.7 use the backport
16:39<meebey>er wait, its in squeeze
16:39<meebey>are you using lenny?
16:39<D3M0N>i dont want to install, i want to uninstall
16:39-!-user [~user@83-131-136-130.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #debian
16:39<D3M0N>yes
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16:39<meebey>well if you have mono2.6.7 on disk it sounds like you actually want it :)
16:40<D3M0N>no, i want to get rid of it
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16:40<meebey>apt-get remove mono-runtime should do it then
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16:41<D3M0N>Package mono-runtime is not installed, so not removed
16:41<meebey>good, so you dont have it
16:41<D3M0N>but im positive mono is there!!!
16:41<meebey>what makes you believing that?
16:41<D3M0N>vps-1039333-2900:~# mono-2.6.7 --version
16:41<D3M0N>Mono JIT compiler version 2.6.7 (tarball Sat Feb 12 17:15:36 EST 2011)
16:41<D3M0N>Copyright (C) 2002-2010 Novell, Inc and Contributors. www.mono-project.com
16:41<D3M0N>that does
16:41-!-D3M0N was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use http://paste.debian.net or /msg dpkg paste]
16:41<meebey>computers dont lie
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16:41<D3M0N>thats what makes me believe that!
16:42<nr9nb9no9>ive seen disputes ove mono on forums--this is some nonfree packge that some are worried is a corrupting influence?
16:42<meebey>oh dear, thats not debian´s mono!
16:42<meebey>it says tarball, so you installed it yourself
16:42<D3M0N>i didnt install it...
16:42<EZmoney>does it matter mono-2.6.7 or mono2.6.7?
16:42<nr9nb9no9>when you install from tarball D3M0N--apt doesnt know about it
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16:42<meebey>mono-2.6.7 is not coming from debian, you can trust me
16:42<D3M0N>ok, how would i remove that then
16:42*meebey packaged it, so he should know
16:43<meebey>run: which mono-2.6.7
16:43<meebey>that will tell you where its installed
16:43-!-ne0 [~ne0@cpe-24-170-70-209.stx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:43<D3M0N>./usr/bin/mono-2.6.7
16:43<meebey>ouch, now you are in trouble, used /usr as prefix
16:43<meebey>good look on that ;)
16:43-!-regsnato [~freebsd@189.13.169.225] has joined #debian
16:43<D3M0N>??
16:44<s_i_m>look wont help, only luck
16:44<nr9nb9no9>he COULD use alien to make a deb--install it--then uninstall it using apt--couldnt he?
16:44-!-and1bm [~andi@HSI-KBW-078-043-088-194.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:44<meebey>it installed into the system prefix, now you have to track down each file and delete it by hand and possibly breaking the system if you delete the wrong files
16:45<meebey>external software should be installed into /usr/local or /opt, never in /usr
16:45<s_i_m>D3M0N, check if you can do a 'make uninstall'
16:46<D3M0N>what would "make uninstall" do?
16:46<s_i_m>from within the directory of the unpacked tarball
16:46<D3M0N>brb
16:46<meebey>he believes he didnt install it in the first place, so I doubt he will have the build directory
16:46<meebey>or he mixes apt and make
16:46<nr9nb9no9>if its in /usr he did--didnt he?
16:47<meebey>or some other root user, yes
16:47<nr9nb9no9>what about my alien idea?
16:47<meebey>can it work from a tarball?
16:47<meebey>I thought it can only convert rpms
16:47<nr9nb9no9>if he made a deb with alien--installed that--then used apt to uninstall it--wouldnt that work?
16:48-!-EZmoney [~EZmoney@c-68-58-85-147.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #debian [---Gone-->]
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16:48<meebey>sure, debs can always
16:48<babilen>checkinstall maybe
16:48<meebey>be uninstalled via apt
16:48-!-eknahm [~eknahm@rrcs-71-41-214-60.se.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:48<babilen>But the best idea is still to use whatever mono provides for uninstallation (e.g. make uninstall)
16:48-!-L0rD` [~anon@09GAAB8XE.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: L0rD`]
16:49-!-mode/#debian [+l 498] by debhelper
16:49<nr9nb9no9>there is some utility you can make ddebs from tarball with
16:49<nr9nb9no9>maybe its not alien
16:49<meebey>and its not like there is no mono 2.6.7 in lenny-backports, avoiding such user mistakes
16:49<babilen>nr9nb9no9: checkinstall, i just mentioned it
16:50<babilen>but there is no point in making this problem even more complex. There are three options: 1. Use "make uninstall" (or whatever mono uses) 2. make install again and create list of installed files 3. Backups
16:50*babilen recommends 1. or 3. :)
16:51<meebey>or 4) use debian packages
16:51<meebey>the best choice
16:51<babilen>well, ok ... 4. Manually delete everything that looks, smells or quacks like mono from /usr
16:51-!-Dav1d [~david@189.27.67.82.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #debian
16:51<babilen>or 5. just don't give a fuck
16:51<D3M0N>back
16:51<D3M0N>sorry
16:51<babilen>meebey: I don't see how that solves D3M0N's problem right now.
16:51<D3M0N>like i said, "I" didnt install it, someone else did
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16:52<babilen>D3M0N: So, you have that mono tarball around?
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16:52<babilen>Or rather: unpackaged somewhere
16:52<D3M0N>yes, in /mono2.6.7/
16:52<nr9nb9no9>its ./make uninstall from the unpacked tarball directory--or just make uninstall?
16:52<babilen>D3M0N: Is that /mono2.6.7 in the root directory?
16:53<D3M0N>yes
16:53<babilen>*sigh*
16:53<babilen>ok
16:53<babilen>D3M0N: "cd /mono2.6.7 ; make uninstall" gives you what?
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16:53<D3M0N>vps-1039333-2900:~/mono2.6.7# make uninstall
16:53<D3M0N>make: *** No rule to make target `uninstall'. Stop.
16:53<babilen>D3M0N: Why did you unpack it to the root directory?
16:53<D3M0N>i didnt!!!!!
16:54<babilen>wonderful
16:54<D3M0N>i wasnt the one who installed it
16:54<babilen>where is it from? who else has root on that machine?
16:54<babilen>Ok, looks as if mono does not provide an uninstall target
16:54<D3M0N>only my host
16:55<nr9nb9no9>you guys are getting a bit torqemadaish on D3M0N dont you think?
16:55<D3M0N>my host is the one who installed it and they wont uninstall it for me
16:55<babilen>D3M0N: Ok. I see. Is it important that it is gone?
16:56<D3M0N>can i compile 2.8.2 with it there?
16:56<D3M0N>if so.. then no, if not, then yet
16:56<D3M0N>would rm -rf mono2.6.7 do it? or would that just make my problems bigger?
16:57<meebey>I wonder why the host didnt use the official backports, maybe would have been too easy and clean
16:57<nr9nb9no9>you want to uninstall it 1st
16:57<D3M0N>sweet, think i just did it
16:58<D3M0N>i did ls, and there was another dir in the mono2.6.7 dir named mono-2.6.7 so i went in there and did the make uninstall
16:58<meebey>you can try: find / -name "mono*"
16:58<D3M0N>and now its giving me some feedback
16:58<babilen>D3M0N: What does "readlink $(which mono)" give you? What about "ls -l /usr/bin|grep mono" ?
16:58<D3M0N>its uninstalling an ass load of stuff
16:58<meebey>for remaining files
16:58<D3M0N>not sure, uninstalling things
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16:59<nr9nb9no9>mono is some nonfree thing for multimedia?
16:59<babilen>D3M0N: wonderful.
16:59<meebey>so you found the build dir, that sounds promising then
16:59<D3M0N>yes, i think i did ;P
16:59<meebey>nr9nb9no9: nope, its a language framework like python or java
16:59<babilen>nr9nb9no9: Mono is a linux implementation of the .NET platform
16:59<linuxxx>to get menus at fluxbox i have to install menu package?
17:00<babilen>linuxxx: Which menu package? And the answer to your question is no AFAIK
17:00<babilen>linuxxx: What menus are you referring to?
17:00<mock>does anyone know anything about procps?
17:00<D3M0N>once this is done removing all these files then i will inform u if it worked ;P
17:00<linuxxx>babilen, a menu like gnome
17:00<linuxxx>babilen, where there is applicactions and that
17:00<nr9nb9no9>ah! so its direct from the great satan of redmond itself?
17:01<babilen>linuxxx: You could right-click on the desktop to get a "menu"
17:01<linuxxx>babilen, i tried but it doesn't work
17:01<linuxxx>babilen, but i think the problem is that right click doesn't work well i will loke at it
17:01<babilen>nr9nb9no9: If you want to see it like this, then yes. But you shouldn't think about it that way IMHO
17:02<linuxxx>*look
17:02<meebey>nr9nb9no9: no, its like linux which is a clone of proprietary unix
17:03<valdyn>more "implementation of the posix standard api"
17:04<babilen>linuxxx: What do you want? fluxbox doesn't have panels out of the box (things like this: http://glx-dock.org/) -- You might want to read its documentaion http://fluxbox-wiki.org/index.php?title=Fluxbox-wiki or as in #fluxbox on irc.freenode.net)
17:05<babilen>s/panels/docks
17:06<wakka>I have a .tcl script that needs to have "fsck". How and where do i get ahold of this? Im using: Debian GNU/Linux 6.0 \n \l - Linux version 2.6.32-5-amd64 (Debian 2.6.32-30)
17:07<babilen>wakka: What does it mean for a .tcl script to have fsck?
17:07<D3M0N>well, i guess this mist be doing something good, taking a while :P
17:07<valdyn>wakka: you already have fsck
17:07<wakka>babilen: its for a eggdrop .tcl script
17:07<wakka>hmm
17:08<wakka>valdyn: [23:02:34] can't find package fsck 1.10
17:08<valdyn>wakka: isnt eggdrop an irc thing?
17:08<jhutchins>wakka: Part of e2fstools
17:08<babilen>wakka: fsck (as in e2fsck) should already be available on your system. What does it mean for a .tcl to have fsck?
17:08<jhutchins>wakka: Should be in /sbin
17:08-!-Se-bash [~seba@host236.186-124-183.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:08<jhutchins>wakka: Path may be wrong in the script
17:09<wakka>ok, whnx. I will check!
17:09<babilen>quite likely
17:09*babilen wonders why eggdrop needs to call fsck.*
17:09<wakka>its an rss script
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17:11<D3M0N>vps-1039333-2900:~/mono2.6.7/mono-2.6.7# mono-2.6.7 --version
17:11<D3M0N>-bash: /usr/bin/mono-2.6.7: No such file or directory
17:11<D3M0N>awesome... guess that worked?
17:11-!-IWC [~ed@212.233.129.66] has joined #debian
17:11<babilen>D3M0N: looks like it :)
17:11<D3M0N>SWEET!!!
17:11<D3M0N>thanks a bunch!
17:12<babilen>D3M0N: I am under the impression that you want to install a version of mono that is not packaged by Debian, correct?
17:12<D3M0N>whichever the latest is, i believe its 2.8.2?
17:12<babilen>D3M0N: You might also want to remove that /mono2.6.7 directory or move it somewhere else.
17:13<D3M0N>so removing it wont hurt now right?
17:13-!-ram0 [~ram@85.100.250.237] has quit [Quit: ram0]
17:13<babilen>D3M0N: If you are doing this, you should make sure that you install it to /usr/local. I would recommend to use "stow" for that -- /msg dpkg stow -- /msg dpkg stow usage
17:14-!-dutchfish [~wil@541CF61E.cm-5-5d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #debian
17:14<babilen>D3M0N: But you might want to ask in #mono on irc.gnome.org about the best way to install mono without messing up the system. There might be some better, mono specific techniques that I am not aware of.
17:15<tash>so, I need to get the tilded vowels, the tilded N and the inverted ?. am a dvorak ansi user, and dvorak-es is not a sexy solution for me. any idea about what can I do?
17:15<babilen>I am thinking about something like "virtualenv" for Python or "cake"/"leiningen" for Clojure
17:16<babilen>tash: Like ¿ ?
17:16-!-MrPlop [~MrPlop@91.180.94.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:16<tash>babilen, yea and tilded vowels and N
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17:17<babilen>tash: You could either use a keymap that supports it, or use the compose key.
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17:17<babilen>Or some deadkey keymap for ñ if that is a better solution. I am not familiar with dvorak keymaps and can't really tell you much about it.
17:17<tash>in openbox how can I get the compose key, I read it has nothing to do with the openbox
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17:19<babilen>tash: I set the "menu" key as compose key by setting XKBOPTIONS=compose:menu in /etc/default/keyboard and include "/usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose" in ~/.XCompose (needed because en_GB that i use does not include it by default)
17:19-!-twe [~twe@13.Red-79-148-222.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #debian
17:19<tdebrouw>hi
17:19-!-twe [~twe@13.Red-79-148-222.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit []
17:20<tdebrouw>i'm running unstable
17:20<linuxxx>the right button of keypad of hp mini 210 doesn't work what can i do?
17:20<tdebrouw>updated today
17:20<tash>babilen: ¿
17:20<tash>babilen: you rock
17:20<tdebrouw>but it seems i have an issue with the nvidia stuff
17:21<babilen>tash: http://paste.debian.net/107529 ← my /etc/default/keyboard that defines to keymaps which I can switch with ALT-SHIFT and a few other goodies
17:21<babilen>tash: hehe :)
17:21<sney>!broken in siid
17:21<sney>!broken in sid
17:21<tash>babilen: I didn't know that compose:menu was an option
17:21<sney>I'm sorry dpkg it was a typo.
17:21<devil>tdebrouw: you need to reinstall nvidia from experimental for now or move to nouveau
17:21<D3M0N>whats the command to remove a dir?
17:21-!-twe [~twe@13.Red-79-148-222.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #debian
17:21<D3M0N>rm -rf doesnt work :/
17:21-!-twe [~twe@13.Red-79-148-222.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit []
17:21<tdebrouw>devil: thx
17:21<sney>anyway, tdebrouw: since it's unstable, you're expected to support it yourself.
17:21-!-EZmoney [~EZmoney@c-68-58-85-147.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #debian
17:21<babilen>D3M0N: rmdir (if empty) rm -r (if not empty, be careful with that)
17:22<tash>babilen: with the super key it does not work :(
17:22<D3M0N>y be careful?
17:22<babilen>D3M0N: It doesn't work? chilling on the couch again, heh? In other words: What is the problem? Why isn't it working?
17:23<D3M0N>when i run the command it goes to a blank line and thats it
17:23<D3M0N>doesnt do anything after that
17:23<babilen>D3M0N: Because you can delete important files from your system or even the complete system if you rm -rf the wrong directories as root
17:23<D3M0N>so.. rm -r mono2.6.7 should remove the fir?
17:23-!-juanqui [~juanqui@24.54.226.77] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:23<babilen>D3M0N: Are you sure that the directory in question has not been removed?
17:23<D3M0N>im positive, cause i can still cd into it
17:24<D3M0N>and i see it on ftp as well
17:24<babilen>D3M0N: "rm -rv /mono2.6.7" gives you what?
17:24-!-angasule [~angasule@190.2.33.49] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:25<D3M0N>rm: cannot remove `/mono2.6.7': No such file or directory ... :(
17:25-!-angasule [~angasule@190.2.33.49] has joined #debian
17:25<D3M0N>im ... confused...
17:25<babilen>tash: You mean you want to set the "windows" (i.e. Super_L) to compose?
17:25-!-twe [~twe@13.Red-79-148-222.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #debian
17:25<babilen>D3M0N: "cd /mono2.6.7" ?
17:25<nr9nb9no9>try cd \ then repeating that command
17:25-!-twe [~twe@13.Red-79-148-222.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit []
17:25<tash>ohh my, I just use super, I'll try
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17:26<D3M0N>cd /mono2.6.7 doesnt work
17:26<D3M0N>BUT
17:26<D3M0N>cd mono2.6.7 does
17:26<tash>babilen: still does not work, it seems like I'll be ok with the menu key
17:26<D3M0N>w/o the / in the front
17:26<sney>what's the output of 'pwd'
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17:27<babilen>tash: What doesn't work? You would rather have the windows key as compose key, but it does not work? How do you set it? Or rather tryig to set it :-þ
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17:27<D3M0N>rm -rv mono2.6.7 is removing files from that dir...
17:28<nr9nb9no9>you sank thier battleship D3M0N
17:28<nr9nb9no9>:P
17:28<tash>babilen: the compose:menu took the menu key(the one that does the same that rigth click) not the super
17:28-!-adris [~adris@p5790C6CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian
17:30<babilen>tash: yeah, that is the "menu" in there -- If you want super_l use "compose:lwin"
17:31<tash>babilen: áóéúí¿ yeah!!!!
17:31<amakusa>does anyone know if sid's mirrors are working propperly?
17:31<babilen>tash: hehe :)
17:31<linuxxx>when i press left button on my mousepad computer does nothing what can i do?
17:31-!-dschneider [~dschneide@95-90-65-75-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #debian
17:31<nr9nb9no9>sunday is usually update day amakusa
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17:32<sney>sunday is also the day the trolls come out. it's a busy day
17:33-!-adris [~adris@p5790C6CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
17:33<devil>heh
17:33<amakusa>nr9nb9no9: I see, I thought my aptitude was messed up or something
17:33-!-MrFrood [~MrFrood@cpc3-hari10-0-0-cust591.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #debian
17:34<nr9nb9no9>you getting the 'unverified packages' warning?
17:34<nr9nb9no9>if so update again
17:34-!-MrFrood [~MrFrood@cpc3-hari10-0-0-cust591.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit []
17:35<amakusa>nop, I get the "there is no install candidate" message
17:35<amakusa>I wasent able to install anything a while ago
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17:37<nr9nb9no9>devil: youre the person of the same nick from sidux?
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17:37<tash>babilen: thank you,
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17:38<babilen>linuxxx: Is this in fluxbox? Have you changed the default configuration? Why don't you just read its documentation or use Gnome or LXDE or something that is easier to use? Is the button really not recognised? What is the output if you run "xev" and press the button?
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17:38<devil>nr9nb9no9: yes
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17:39<sney>my local mirror seems to have stopped updating, unhappy sney :(
17:39<nr9nb9no9>(adjusts his wuffbane amulet nervously)
17:39-!-Claudinux [~claudio@94.160.22.242] has joined #debian
17:39<babilen>what is a wuffbane amulet? and why does one need one?
17:39<sney>no more 1.5MB/s apt downloads for me :/
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17:40<nr9nb9no9>its fends off the werewolves ofc
17:40-!-sortadi is now known as Guest1292
17:40-!-sortadi_ is now known as sortadi
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17:41<nr9nb9no9>why not sney?
17:42-!-Guest1292 [~sortadi@190.39.177.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:42<sney>because the university up the street stopped updating their mirror. I was getting a "Release file outdated" message and then everything was back to normal once I switched to cdn.debian.net
17:43<sney>but slower, since the 1s and 0s are coming all the way from ontario
17:43-!-lostinfog [~lbmoore@caritas.hethcote.com] has joined #debian
17:43<Tiff>clone your own personal mirror :P
17:43<sney>theoretically, once that local mirror is back up and running, cdn.debian.net will pull from there
17:43<nr9nb9no9>well--if it makes you feel any better--my vm install of squeeze is scorching along at 8kbps
17:43<sney>haha ouch
17:44<nr9nb9no9><<<on my 3g phone--which is more like gprs most of the time
17:44-!-arand [8afbf142@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #debian
17:44<tash>when I started to use debian, my download rate was 8kbps
17:44<nr9nb9no9>it just takes patience
17:45<nr9nb9no9>and you need something to do--like jump on irc
17:45<sney>word
17:45<arand>I have vm images lying on a ntfs partition, mounted with my user as owner, however virt-manager errors out with permission denied when I try to attach and use said images. I remeber this working ok in ubuntu, in what way would I need to mess around with virt-managers permissions?
17:45<sney>the first time I used debian, I installed from floppies! :D
17:46<tash>sney: on what?
17:46<nr9nb9no9>er--i still have my origianl commodore 64 in storage....
17:46<sney>a 400Mhz i686 of some sort, memory's hazy
17:46<amakusa>when I first tried debian I couldn't connect to the internet for a whole month because I was unable to configure a ZTE mobilebroadband modem, and that was my only source of internet :-(
17:46-!-pkrzywicki [~pkrzywick@cpc4-rdng21-2-0-cust118.15-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #debian
17:46<nr9nb9no9>it was the 1st puter i got online with
17:46<nr9nb9no9>w/ a 300 baud modem on a bbs :P
17:47<nr9nb9no9>in 1991
17:47-!-ernesto is now known as seraph1
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17:47<pkrzywicki>Hi
17:47<tash>didn't know i686 where that fast as 400mhz
17:47-!-seraph1 is now known as ernesto
17:47<amakusa>I had one of those too
17:47<linuxxx>babilen, ok xev detects the button and i saw that my right click works as left click
17:47<pkrzywicki>I am having problems with vmware-config.pl
17:48<amakusa>I used it to play lazer-maze, I was 6
17:48<pkrzywicki>http://pastebin.com/fVs7VXLr
17:48<pkrzywicki>any ideas
17:48-!-dutchfish [~wil@541CF61E.cm-5-5d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving]
17:48<sney>tash: 686 refers to anything PII and later. I think it may have been a first-gen P3
17:48*babilen mumbles ot
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17:49<nr9nb9no9>i have NEVER despite a LOT of trying ever got online with my tmobile gprs phone--i think tmobile has something that stops it
17:49<sney>probably
17:49<tash>sney: ohh, I had a celeron 600mhz back then, :P, coppermine
17:49<pkrzywicki>Debian GNU/Linux wheezy/sid 2.6.32-5 kernel
17:49<nr9nb9no9>its only dialup speed anyway
17:49<pkrzywicki>? anyone
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17:51<sney>pkrzywicki: well, it's not liking something in one of your includes. but I haven't dealt with vmware much
17:51<nr9nb9no9>how many toy story characters left before debian has to name thier releases something else?
17:51<sney>lots
17:51<amakusa>could debian run on a commodore 64?
17:51<pkrzywicki>hahahahaha
17:52<nr9nb9no9>i never watched it so i dunno
17:52<sney>ubuntu is probably going to run out of alliterative animals first
17:52<nr9nb9no9>no but debian has a couple c64 emulators
17:52<tash>sney: you mean letters?
17:52<nr9nb9no9>dingy dingbat
17:52<sney>no, I'm sure when they get to Z they'll just circle back to A
17:52<nr9nb9no9>:P
17:53<amakusa>hahahaha
17:53<tash>that will be so lame
17:53<amakusa>I don't think ubuntuers will notice
17:54<sney>news flash 2013: Ubuntu developers get tired and give up; Ubuntu development absorbed into Debian. Debian 7.0 Wheezy Wombat slated for late winter release
17:54-!-EZmoney [~EZmoney@c-68-58-85-147.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #debian
17:54<nr9nb9no9>mangy marsupial
17:55<Tiff>Still waiting for Ubuntu's Rampant Rabbit release.
17:55<amakusa>haha
17:55<nr9nb9no9>rapacious rodent
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17:56<tash>I get dissapointed when there wasn't daffy duck, bugs bunny :(
17:57<pkrzywicki>:)
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17:57<nr9nb9no9>damn! STILL 2 hrs to go and im only installing xfce
17:58<amakusa>if ubuntu was absorbed into debian, wouldn't that mean Mark Shuttleworth would have to fund debian?
17:58<Tiff>What is there to absorb?
17:58-!-exaltis [~george@athedsl-410176.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:58*themill points towards #debian-offtopic
17:58<sney>donated hardware, I guess
17:59<sney>sorry.
17:59<amakusa>animal names lol
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18:01<flaccid>i was wondering the status of upstart and debian 6? looks like its still sysvinit?
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18:02<sney>sysvinit is default, upstart is available in apt if you want to use it
18:02<themill>!insserv
18:02<dpkg>[insserv] a dependency-based <init> system that is compatible with <sysvinit> and is the default from squeeze onwards. See also <upstart>. To use insserv, your init scripts need to have tags at the top of them that describe what they depend on to permit the correct ordering of the init scripts (see <missing lsb tags>).
18:02<sney>er, yes, that
18:02<flaccid>if i need upstart, just install it and thats all i need to do?
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18:04<devil>there is systemd also
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18:04<rpetre>what's the current best practice in mixing stable, backports and testing? i remember reading somewhere that pinning is no longer the recommended option
18:05-!-nr9nb9no9 [~snag@166.203.110.145] has left #debian [Konversation terminated!]
18:05<sney>mixing stable and testing is never recommended
18:05<streuner_>!bobbit
18:05<streuner_>!bobbitt
18:05<dpkg>Remember Lorena Bobbitt [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorena_Bobbitt]? Remember what she did to her husband's woody? Well, when you install binary packages from different branches onto your woody, you get the same result. Same goes for Lenny, Squeeze, and any other Debian system, "Debian based distro", or the fire that is <rpm>, <alien>, etc.
18:06<sney>yeesh
18:06<rpetre>lol
18:06<sney>also, I suspect that many users nowadays are too young to remember lorena bobbitt. good thing we have wikipedia.
18:06<pkrzywicki>exactly
18:06<pkrzywicki>:)
18:07<sney>anyway, the thing to do is to add backports, and then if something isn't there and you need it, backport it yourself. /msg dpkg ssb
18:07<rpetre>i believe that factoid is from woody days :)
18:07<tash>xchat can't handle that nick in []
18:08<rpetre>sney: nah, i'm just use of having stable, testing and maybe sid in my apt-cache for quicker lookup, and i don't have the guts to go to testing for another few months
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18:08<tash>s/nick/link
18:09<rpetre>i think backports comes with a default low priority anyway, right?
18:09-!-tash [~tash@19NAAEVEL.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:09<Tiff>It comes as priority 1.
18:09<Tiff>NotAutomatic flag set.
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18:12<amakusa>can irrsi automatically connect to several channels when started?
18:12<amakusa>irssi*
18:12<sney>irssi can do almost anything. it's all in the docs
18:12<Tiff>amakusa: yes see ~/.irssi/config
18:12<amakusa>ok
18:12<ansgar>amakusa: /help channel
18:12<arand>amakusa: /channel add -auto ....
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18:16<arn>quit
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18:22<tdebrouw>=auirt
18:22<tdebrouw>errr
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18:27<linuxxx>i have fluxbox insalled and when i press right button in my mousepad has the same effect as left button how i solve it?
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18:28<weedeater64>Did you select the laptop package, during installation?
18:28<linuxxx>weedeater64, nop
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18:29<weedeater64>linuxxx, I don't know what would be best, but I would run tasksel and select the laptop package.
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18:30<linuxxx>weedeater64, ok i will try
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18:59<JARRY>hello
19:00<JARRY>i am a problem
19:00<weedeater64>My ol lady says that about me.
19:00-!-mosno [~mosno@eth3903.vic.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #debian
19:00<JARRY>i need help
19:00-!-klh [~klh@AClermont-Ferrand-552-1-132-135.w90-42.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian
19:00<amakusa>lol
19:00-!-iKb [~francesco@net-93-149-189-234.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #debian
19:00<iKb>hi all
19:00<weedeater64>Ya, she says that too
19:01<JARRY>hi
19:01-!-Muzer is now known as MuzerAway
19:01<weedeater64>What's the problem?
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19:04<JARRY>good...i am from mexico
19:04<flaccid>hmm how do i get apt-get to skip To continue type in the phrase 'Yes, do as I say!'? when install upstart package?
19:05-!-streuner__ [foobar@mnhm-4d0185c0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #debian
19:05<JARRY>I have installed on a netbook BackTrack 4R2
19:06<devil>!bt
19:06<dpkg>from memory, bt is Bhutan, or <bluetooth>, or British Telecom, or <bittorrent>, or <BackTrack>.
19:06<klh>Hi, some problems with compiz, run it with compiz --replace is ok. But trying to start it automatically with "export WINDOW_MANAGER=/usr/bin/compiz" in my .gnomerc does not work properly, there is no window decoration and keyboard shortcut are unavailable...
19:06<devil>!backtrack
19:06<dpkg>BackTrack is not Debian and is not supported in #debian (ask me about <based on debian>). Try http://www.backtrack-linux.org/ or #backtrack-linux on irc.freenode.net instead. BackTrack is a Linux distribution based on <Ubuntu> Intrepid (as of BackTrack 4), previously <SLAX>. Derived from merging two penetration-testing distributions: WHAX (formerly WHOPPIX) and Auditor Security Linux.
19:06<themill>flaccid: that big scary warning is there for a reason...
19:06-!-eknahm [~eknahm@rrcs-71-41-214-60.se.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:06<flaccid>yes i'm doing non-interactive builds of images so i can't have it
19:06<JARRY>y no me reconoce el wireles ,
19:06<JARRY>mi targeta es rt2860siocsifflags
19:07<JARRY>I have installed on a netbook BackTrack 4R2
19:07<JARRY>and not recognizing wireles,
19:07<JARRY>my card is rt2860siocsifflags
19:07<devil>JARRY: please go to #backtrack-linux on irc.freenode.net instead
19:07-!-DMBoyCloud [~kevin@186.4.27.16] has joined #debian
19:07<devil>JARRY: this is debian
19:07<JARRY>hoooo
19:07<JARRY>jejejeje sorry
19:07<weedeater64>!es
19:07<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
19:07<devil>no prob
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19:08<JARRY>vaaa
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19:09<emmanuel>hi
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19:09<DMBoyCloud>I use debian and my sourses are going to testing, why lsb_release -a still says i use squeeze?
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19:10<JARRY>camara
19:10<JARRY>chidoo
19:10<JARRY>adios
19:10<DMBoyCloud>adios
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19:13<iKb>can't get a good resolution for my SIS graphic cart on debian 6
19:14<iKb>some suggestion?
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19:22<Yvemath>Which GRUB version does #debian-squeeze loads ? I'm actually looking for kernel=vmlinuz label=LABELHERE , initrd=initramdisk.img
19:22<Yvemath>alternative to *
19:23-!-klh [~klh@AClermont-Ferrand-552-1-132-135.w90-42.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:23<ne0>hello
19:23-!-katsrc_ [~quassel@cpe-68-174-116-221.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:23<ne0>can anyone help me getting a screenlet working ?
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19:27<ne0>....?
19:28<amphi>ne0: you may probably take that as a 'no' - no one here ATM is willing or able to assist with this
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19:29<ne0>amphi can u help me ?
19:29<amphi>ne0: no, I don't even know what a screenlet is
19:29-!-nh2 [~aptosid@98.152.100-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:29<ne0>ok thanks
19:30-!-kgarbutt [~debian@174-24-184-54.tukw.qwest.net] has quit []
19:30<amphi>ne0: is it some gnome or kde specific thing? if so, their channel may be able to help
19:30<ne0>gnome
19:32<amphi>perhaps in #gnome on freenode, they will know
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19:33<ne0>thanks
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19:35<weedeater64>dang, I just ran a search in the gnome help for 'screenlet' and got nothing...
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19:39-!-Soviet^ [Soviet@dialup-4.159.56.205.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net] has joined #debian
19:39<Soviet^>anyone know of a good command line bit torrent?
19:39<Soviet^>preferbally one with a gui of somekind
19:39<flaccid>rtorrent
19:39<Soviet^>but needs to run on ssh
19:40<Soviet^>lol @ flaccid's name
19:40<Soviet^>hmmm I think I saw that before
19:40<amphi>rtorrent
19:40<amphi>ncurses interface
19:40<Soviet^>looks hard to install =/
19:40<amphi>tricky - aptitude install rtorrent
19:41-!-sarvad [~sarvad@99-59-194-185.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #debian
19:41<weedeater64>bittorrent maybe? I've only ever used gui ones.
19:41-!-sarvad is now known as Ravi
19:41<amphi>!be aptitude barbie
19:41<dpkg>But aptitude is soooooo hard! :`( Ken, call me a waaaaahbulance *cry*
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19:46<Soviet^>uh
19:46<Soviet^>which dl should i get
19:46<Soviet^>of rtorrent
19:46<amphi>Soviet^: just install it with the package manager
19:46<Soviet^>and whats the difference between libtorrent and rtorrent
19:46<Soviet^>of
19:46<Soviet^>oh*
19:47<Soviet^>thought i had to compile
19:47<amphi>!lart Soviet^
19:47*dpkg strangles Soviet^ with a doohicky mouse cord
19:47<Soviet^>:<
19:47<amphi>just aptitude install rtorrent
19:47<Soviet^>apt-get on lenny :D
19:48<amphi>lenny has aptitude, no?
19:48<Soviet^>idk
19:48<Soviet^>im a linux nub
19:48<Soviet^>i always use apt-get
19:48<Soviet^>>_o
19:48<amphi>Soviet^: that's fine; apt-get install rtorrent, and it will pull in libtorrent
19:49<pipeep>Lenny, that's a joke, right?
19:49<amphi>pipeep: why?
19:49<pipeep>Because all the kool kids are using squeeze
19:50<Soviet^>I haz a buyvm server
19:50<Soviet^>2 of them actually
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20:03<Soviet^>can someone help me with rtorrent lol, idk what this all means.
20:03<Soviet^>http://img.itsjon.net/2011-02-13_1903.png
20:03<Soviet^>is the torrent downloading?
20:05<kop>pipeep: IMO the smart thing to do is wait a while for the first point release for all the bugs/upgrade issues to be worked out of squeeze -- then go to squeeze.
20:06<Soviet^>hm
20:06<Soviet^>i just checked my dir
20:06<Soviet^>and
20:06<pipeep>perhaps, it depends on what you want squeeze for, but I see your point
20:06<Soviet^>the torrent file is there
20:06<Soviet^>and its the right size
20:06-!-zem [~voodoo@94.253.179.141] has joined #debian
20:06<Soviet^>how do i know if it downloaded
20:06-!-phrosty [~phrosty@2001:470:d:30b:0:5ca1:ab1e:c0de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:06<pipeep>I've been using squeeze for a few months now, with few issues, but I'm not running a server or anything
20:06-!-hardwalker [~hardwalke@114-33-201-92.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #debian
20:08<Soviet^>pipeep
20:08<Soviet^>can you help me :S
20:08<Soviet^>hmm
20:08-!-ilias [~ilias__@95.56.4.151] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:08<Soviet^>this is the file it downloaded
20:08<Soviet^>http://205.185.120.194/~torrents/Minecraft%20Beta%201.1_02.rar
20:08<Soviet^>idk if its downloaded all the way or what
20:09<pipeep>You could try to checksum it
20:09<Soviet^>well
20:09<Soviet^>im on dialupo
20:09<Soviet^>dialup*
20:09<pipeep>although you'd need to know what the checksum is
20:09<Soviet^>and dling 50mb
20:09<Soviet^>takes a while
20:09<Soviet^>:D
20:09-!-Miguel0n [~miguel@170.246.20.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:09<pipeep>the torrent file should contain it I think
20:09<Soviet^>look at this tho
20:09<Soviet^>http://img.itsjon.net/2011-02-13_1903.png
20:10<Soviet^>whats that mean
20:10<Soviet^>it downloaded?
20:10<pipeep>and then you just need to run "md5sum file" and compare them
20:10<pipeep>I don't use rtorrent, but it says that it's done
20:10<Soviet^>hmm
20:11<pipeep>wait... you posted a windoz screenshot on debian IRC!
20:12<Soviet^>yea?
20:12*pipeep gets out his shotgun, and aims it across the world
20:12<Soviet^>lol
20:12<Soviet^>win7 ftw
20:12*Soviet^ hides
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20:12<kop>Soviet^: You're best off using the netinstall image you know, unless you're planning on being without internet connectivity.
20:12<Soviet^>huh?
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20:13<kop>!tell Soviet^ about netinstall
20:13<Soviet^>EW
20:13<Soviet^>EWWWWW
20:13<Soviet^>#1 I'm on dialup
20:14<kop>Soviet^: With the netinstall image you don't download what you don't need, and the system you end up with is pre-configured to get it's software from the internet.
20:14<Soviet^>#2 I'd never install linux unless its on a vps
20:14<kop>Soviet^: Ok. Nothing wrong with a cd/dvd.
20:14<Soviet^>I don't get what you mean tho
20:14<kop>Soviet^: Well, I'd never run MS unless it was inside a sandbox.
20:14<Soviet^>lolol
20:14-!-aroundthfur [~change@SE400.PPPoE-1990.sa.bih.net.ba] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:15<kop>Soviet^: You will not install every package on the cd, ergo you have download stuff you don't need and have wasted bandwidth.
20:15*Soviet^ has dialup
20:15<Soviet^>wait
20:15<Soviet^>is it some kind of software you're suggesting i install on my box?
20:15*Soviet^ is confizzled
20:16<kop>Soviet^: Debian uses software called an installer to install. It's available in various forms, one of which is the netinstall image.
20:16<Soviet^>whats it is
20:16<Soviet^>whats it do*
20:17<kop>Soviet^: Have you read the install guide?
20:17<Soviet^>of what
20:17<Soviet^>>_o
20:17<kop>!tell Soviet^ about ig
20:17<Soviet^>Squeeze is a build right
20:19*Soviet^ 's eye twiches
20:19-!-syndicate [~Administr@182.0.207.255] has joined #debian
20:19*Soviet^ does into a sezure
20:19*Soviet^ goes into a sezure
20:20<kop>Soviet^: Not exactly.
20:20<kop>Soviet^: http://www.debian.org/releases/
20:20-!-thor12022 [~vincec@cpe-67-246-33-24.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
20:20<Soviet^>I'd have to reinstall the os wouldnt i
20:21<Soviet^>Firefox can't find the server at www.debian.org.
20:21<Soviet^>>_o
20:21<Soviet^>nvm loads now
20:21<kop>Soviet^: That bizzare. Are you behind some strange firewall?
20:21<Soviet^><Soviet^> nvm loads now
20:22<Soviet^>plu
20:22<Soviet^>plus
20:22<Soviet^>I think I'd have to reinstall my ps
20:22<Soviet^>os
20:22<Soviet^>which im not doin
20:22<Soviet^>:P
20:22<kop>Soviet^: What version of debian did you install? Lenny? (5.0?)
20:22<Soviet^>yea
20:22<Soviet^>actually
20:23<Soviet^>i dont thind i would be able to install any other version
20:23<kop>Soviet^: You can run that, but the software is very old, and won't be supported in one years time.
20:23<Soviet^>eh fine with me
20:23<kop>Soviet^: But, you don't have to re-install, you can upgrade. (Although frankly if you're on dialup a re-install might be eaiser.)
20:23<Soviet^>kop
20:23<Soviet^>I'm on dialup
20:23<Soviet^>my box isnt
20:23<Soviet^>:|
20:24<Soviet^>would an upgrade hard any of my files
20:24<Soviet^>harm*
20:24<kop>Soviet^: Ok, so upgrade when you feel like it.
20:24<kop>Soviet^: No. If you've changed any config files from the default it will ask and you can resolve the differences either then or later.
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20:25<Soviet^>ok how do i upgrade it
20:25-!-themill [~stuart@themill.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:25<kop>Soviet^: There can be a few packages that don't upgrade data automatically. The moin wiki requires manual steps and I always find it annoying, databases (postgres, mysql) also tend to have both versions installed and you must migrate the data and remove the old version afterwards. Stuff like that.
20:26<pipeep>Soviet^, if you don't want to download a debian iso, you can buy some via mail
20:26<kop>Soviet^: You follow the instructions found here: http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/releasenotes
20:26<Soviet^>woh wait wait
20:26<pipeep>or if you can't or don't want to pay for that, I can personally mail you a DVD
20:26<Soviet^>you mean I have to use a "cd"
20:26<Soviet^>my box isnt like.. in my house
20:26<Soviet^>its a vps
20:26<pipeep>Soviet^, depends
20:26<Soviet^>>_o
20:26<kop>Soviet^: He means if your box is on dialup.
20:26-!-dacoc [~dacoc@186.84.19.189] has joined #debian
20:26<pipeep>Oh, netinstall then
20:26<Soviet^>its not
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20:28<pipeep>god, I'm glad I don't have dialup
20:28<Soviet^>holy shit
20:28<Soviet^>thats a looonnnggg page
20:28<Soviet^>I don't have the soul to read all of that :(
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20:33<amakusa>is there a virtual machine package available for debian besides virtualbox-ose?
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20:36<kais58>anyone here associated with debian-mips?
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20:58<flaccid>do i really have to use expect to get around To continue type in the phrase 'Yes, do as I say!' ?
20:59-!-mode/#debian [+l 468] by debhelper
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21:20<i10neorg>I follow Testing. Ran into the following problem after rebooting from being up for maybe a month.
21:20<i10neorg>Audio/sound isn't working.
21:20<i10neorg>Troubleshot it down to some kind of permissions problem.
21:21<i10neorg>If I'm just on a tty (no X windows), audio works fine (aplay testfile.wav).
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21:22<i10neorg>Err, "aplay -Dhw:0 test.wav" to keep pulse out of the picture for now. Again, works on the tty (without X)
21:22-!-linchen [~linchen@114.102.155.245] has joined #debian
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21:22<i10neorg>Log into X, and aplay doesn't work. Not even "aplay -l"... "aplay: device_list:235: no soundcards found..."
21:23<i10neorg>Again, I know it's a permissions issue.
21:23<linchen>it is end?
21:23<i10neorg>linchen: ?
21:24-!-ilias [~ilias__@195.82.12.2] has joined #debian
21:25<i10neorg>/dev/snd/* has "audio" group permissions, and I'm not in "audio" group, but that never stopped sound from working before.
21:25<linchen>sorry ,i am a freshman
21:25<i10neorg>I'm guessing because of some "kit" vodo (console-kit, policy-kit, I don't know).
21:26<i10neorg>Thanks for any help.
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21:30<noodleking>hi
21:30<noodleking>anyone know of an up to date guide to creating VirtualHosts in Debian Squeeze Apache2?
21:31<noodleking>I've tried doing what I do in Ubuntu, but it seems not to work. I've also found a couple of out dated Debian guides via google, but they don't map to Apache2.
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21:33<i10neorg>I would guess there's nothing very Debian about it, apart from putting your apache2 virtual host directives in their own file under /etc/apache2/sites-available , and then using "sudo a2ensite" to setup the symlink from /etc/apache2/sites-enabled .
21:33<i10neorg>But the actual content of the file should be straight apache2 docs (not Debian specific).
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21:33<noodleking>il0neorg I've done the a2ensite/a2dissite stuff but there's some differences in configuration I think.
21:35<noodleking>my approach in ubuntu was simply to cp default "mysite" and then a2ensite that and a2dissite default ... but this doesn't seem to work with Debian.
21:36<i10neorg>Here's one of mine, nice an simple <http://pastebin.com/1qhNWpRQ>
21:36<noodleking>I looked it up online and there's a few Debian guides but they are quite different to each other and they seem outdated
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21:38<noodleking>il0neorg does your setup work for multiple virtual hosts?
21:38<i10neorg>Yes.
21:38<i10neorg>Each one looks similar to that example.
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21:39<noodleking>and each of your settings is simply saved as a file with the name of the url?
21:39<i10neorg>I don't think I touched any other config files provided by the packaging.
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21:39<i10neorg>The filename I don't think matters, as long as it can be got to from /etc/apache2/sites-enabled.
21:40<i10neorg>You might check out the "-t" option to apach2 in its manpage.
21:40-!-freex [~user@188-23-54-241.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:41<i10neorg>or "-S"
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21:41<MrA>Hola alguien habla español ?
21:41<noodleking>k, I'm just gonna give that a try ...
21:42-!-dreamer000 [~dreamer@82.113.121.55] has joined #debian
21:43<i10neorg>MrA: #debian-es ?
21:43<ml|_>!es
21:43<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
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21:44<noodleking>il0neorg, that works to get me to my homepage but only for "http://localhost/" (which somewhat defeats the purpose) :(
21:44-!-lsm5 [~lsm5@lander-asus.cse.Buffalo.EDU] has quit []
21:44<MrA>k, thank you
21:44<i10neorg>MrA: :)
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21:45<costas>hello
21:45<i10neorg>You'd have to have the virtual domain you're trying to access in the url so that apache knows that's the domain you want to see.
21:45-!-thor12022 [~vincec@cpe-67-246-33-24.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
21:47<noodleking>I tried using "http://myDomainName.com/", which was the name I set in the file, but this goes online to a web address.
21:47<i10neorg>Maybe your issue is DNS then.
21:49-!-freex [~user@212-183-54-25.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #debian
21:51<noodleking>hmm, you could be right... how would I go about changing that? is there a hosts file or equivalent to edit?
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21:52<i10neorg>It would only work for your host, but I think you could add an entry in /etc/hosts .
21:52<ml|_>!resolv.conf
21:52<dpkg>resolv.conf is probably /etc/resolv.conf, resolver configuration file that contains your nameserver IPs. It's written by your DHCP client. To use different nameservers than those provided by DHCP, ask me about <override dns>. See also <fixresolvconf>.
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21:53<noodleking>that's good enough for me, I am using my box as a development environment, I will be installing multiple instances of Drupal and Joomla on each subsite
21:53-!-HiTcHeR [~Karl@p54A58B58.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit []
21:53<MrA>status for my request in #debian-es -----> pwnd
21:55<i10neorg>MrA: That doesn't sound friendly... sorry.
21:56<MrA>lol, srry about that
21:58<costas>now upgrading to squeeze -finally had time...
21:58<MrA>good luck :)
21:59<costas>thanks man but luck isn't needed here 8-D
21:59<ml|_>costas: /msg dpkg lenny->squeeze and read/follow the release notes
21:59<costas>thanks, allready done that I've been using Debian since it first released
22:00<ml|_>good, good luck ;)
22:00<MrA>rofl
22:01<costas>tried Ubuntu studio on my amd64 today... noone seems to notice pro soundcards and pulseaudio doesn't work well... 8-(
22:01<MrA>seem
22:01<costas>Ubuntu should get their Sh#t together and fix that.....
22:02<costas>but it's a nice package for the amateur linuxhead
22:02<costas>the upgrade goes fine...
22:03<noodleking>hmm, I've managed to map it to a specific localhost ip 127.0.1.2 myDomain
22:03<noodleking>but I'm not sure if this is a very robust/secure solution
22:03-!-supness08 [6c09b6df@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #debian
22:03<noodleking>thanks for the help il0neorg
22:04<costas>only 5 hours left.... debian still rules... thanks for the good luck wishes people
22:04<supness08>looking for help on how to compile wine on debian squeeze please :d
22:05<i10neorg>And in the end... the /help/ you take... is equal to... the /help/ you make. :)
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22:05<costas>what's the specific problem supness08? if you use synaptic you just select wine from there...
22:05<i10neorg>supness08: The Debian packages aren't adequate?
22:06<costas>tried the wine documentation?
22:06<supness08>well, i was told by someone here a few days ago that compiling wine was more stable than apt-get
22:06-!-Holborn [~holborn@170.Red-88-26-182.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
22:06<supness08>im kinda new, so im sorry if my terms are incorrect
22:06<costas>well.... he was right, but if you're new, stick with the synaptic...
22:07<ml|_>the debian version is fine
22:07<costas>if you compile it from sources, you tailor it to your system.....
22:07<supness08>and yes, i tried the wine documents
22:07<costas>but I always suggest the debian version from synaptic...
22:07<supness08>what is the 'synaptic?'
22:07<i10neorg>Another option is to down load and "experimental" debian package. If you check the debian wine package page <http://packages.qa.debian.org/w/wine.html>, you can see the "exp" version is more recent.
22:08<costas>System/administration/synaptic package manager.....
22:08<ml|_>never a good idea mixing debian releases, especially from experimental
22:08<costas>experimental, means non stable...
22:09<costas>stick with stable....
22:09<MrA>Today would have wished back to use alsaconf again in 6.0
22:09<i10neorg>He already said the stable version of wine wasn't for him.
22:09<ml|_>supness08: try ...
22:09<ml|_>!ssb
22:09<dpkg>First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add ONLY a <deb-src> line for sid to /etc/apt/sources.list 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
22:09<costas>tell us why the stable version isn't good enough for ya... more info
22:10<costas>on debian 5 wine works like a charm
22:10-!-indecipherable [~indeciphe@d72-39-184-211.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #debian
22:10<indecipherable>Hi everyone.
22:10<ml|_>,versions wine
22:10<judd>Package wine on i386 -- lenny: 1.0.1-1; sid: 1.0.1-3.1; squeeze: 1.0.1-3.1; wheezy: 1.0.1-3.1; experimental: 1.1.24-2
22:10<supness08>It was wine running a modern warfare 2 server
22:10<indecipherable>Does anyone know if DFSBuild is still an active project? Is anyone currently using or supporting this project?
22:10<supness08>it was crashing quite often
22:11<supness08>i was told wine was more when it was 'compiled'
22:11<costas>well.... everything that goes wrong is traditionally linked to windows.....
22:11<gsimmons>indecipherable: No, you would want Debian Live ; /msg dpkg debian from scratch
22:11<supness08>i followed instruction to install packages from here:
22:11<supness08>http://wiki.winehq.org/Recommended_Packages
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22:12<supness08>then followed the instuction here to compile
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22:12<supness08>http://www.winehq.org/docs/wineusr-guide/installing-wine-source
22:12-!-kolter [~kolter@88.190.223.122] has joined #debian
22:12<supness08>and my machine always freezes mid 'make'
22:12<costas>it's ok by me supness08 to compile, but you should report the errors of the compilation for us to help ya out....
22:13<supness08>i don't know how to get any error reports to follow up on :(
22:13<costas>the exact problem of yours could be simply a windows glitch
22:14-!-lsm5 [~lsm5@lander-asus.cse.Buffalo.EDU] has quit []
22:14<costas>undocumented dll errors are common... emulation doesn't always work 100%
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22:14<supness08>ya i kinda figured that, i just wanted to have it as good as i could
22:14<ml|_>supness08: as you can see above, debian wine versions for squeeze and sid are the same; so !ssb that dpkg said will not work for you ;(
22:15-!-lsm5 [~lsm5@lander-asus.cse.Buffalo.EDU] has quit []
22:15<costas>then you should eliminate all factors that make your windows software not working under debian...
22:15-!-lsm5 [~lsm5@lander-asus.cse.Buffalo.EDU] has joined #debian
22:16<supness08>mll_ does that mean compiling and apt-get are the same?
22:16<costas>did you try other windows apps?
22:16<costas>no
22:16<supness08>i have not
22:16-!-indecipherable [~indeciphe@d72-39-184-211.home1.cgocable.net] has quit []
22:16<costas>apt-get gets you something from an ftp server...
22:16<ml|_>supness08: from debian sources, ie.. !ssb yes
22:17<costas>compiling means getting the sources and BUILDING the app itself from scratch
22:17<ml|_>but if you download the sources from winehq and compile, no
22:17<costas>version numbers doesn't lie my friend
22:18<supness08>the intruction i showed, is that the crorect way to compile?
22:18<costas>-getting some food and brb
22:18<kop>costas: In fact they do, plenty of stuff is backported into debian without the version numbers changing.
22:18<supness08>ok, ty costas!
22:18-!-gamambel [~torsrvrs@anonymizer1.torservers.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:18<kop>s/stuff/bugfixes/
22:18<costas>you're welcome supness08
22:19-!-kingbar [~kingbar@124.6.181.93] has joined #debian
22:19<kingbar>hi
22:19<kingbar>anybody am new to backtrack
22:19<kingbar>can any one here knows oooperation of this os
22:19<tom4golf>how do you msg judd for versions of packages other than i386 ...such as ppc?
22:20<ml|_>!bt4
22:20<dpkg>BackTrack is not Debian and is not supported in #debian (ask me about <based on debian>). Try http://www.backtrack-linux.org/ or #backtrack-linux on irc.freenode.net instead. BackTrack is a Linux distribution based on <Ubuntu> Intrepid (as of BackTrack 4), previously <SLAX>. Derived from merging two penetration-testing distributions: WHAX (formerly WHOPPIX) and Auditor Security Linux.
22:20<ml|_>kingbar: ^
22:21<ml|_>,versions wine --arch amd64
22:21<judd>Package wine on amd64 -- lenny: 1.0.1-1; sid: 1.0.1-3.1; squeeze: 1.0.1-3.1; wheezy: 1.0.1-3.1; experimental: 1.1.24-2
22:21<ml|_>tom4golf: ^
22:22<kingbar>is der anyy tutorials esp ebook of backtrack
22:22<brlancer>in lenny/oldstable, does "apt-get source" support "-t"? I have deb-src lines for squeeze and wheezy, specifying squeeze still pulls from wheeze. What am I missing?
22:23<ml|_>kingbar: join #backtrack-linux on irc.freenode.net
22:23<kingbar>how can i go that room?
22:23<ml|_>what irc client?
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22:27<costas>time for a music break..... hear my music at www.costasg.co.nr
22:27-!-DennisTheTiger [~dennis@c-71-197-220-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #debian
22:27<tom4golf>,versions gpmudmon-applet --arch ppc
22:27<judd>Sorry, no package named 'gpmudmon-applet' was found in ppc.
22:27-!-Panko [~Threnody@72.52.23.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:27<ml|_>tom4golf: but /msg judd ...
22:27-!-Panko [~Threnody@72.52.23.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #debian
22:28<costas>2 hours until squeeze..
22:28-!-debsan [~debsan@190.245.76.183] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:28<costas>servers are busy tonight
22:28<ml|_>going well?
22:29<costas>yep
22:29<tom4golf>ml|_: could not get reply using /msg judd package on ppc
22:29<ml|_>:)
22:29-!-chitchat [~guest@120.21.6.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:29<ml|_>tom4golf: /msg judd versions ...
22:30<costas>actually the only OS I ever paid and was worth every cent was debian....
22:31-!-edbian [~ed@ip-128-239-115-196.v4.wm.edu] has quit [Quit: Bye]
22:31<ml|_>tom4golf: also /msg judd help versions
22:33-!-Panko [~Threnody@72.52.23.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:34<tom4golf>ml|_: my bad, I was using ppc rather than powerpc.... thx
22:34<ml|_>np
22:34-!-rklz [~rklz@host158.186-109-131.telecom.net.ar] has joined #debian
22:35<supness08>i can not open 'synaptic' through applications menu. and it says it is already installed. any advice?
22:36-!-noodleking [~noodlekin@81-178-204-250.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
22:36<Tiff>try run it from a terminal and observe output.
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22:37<supness08>please explain how would i run it from terminal?
22:37<Tiff>which desktop environment do you use
22:37<costas>supness08, synaptic should run fine from the apps menu.... I think you messed your desktop
22:37-!-Guest1304 [~jeremy@ppp-22.247.dialinfree.com] has quit []
22:38<supness08>i used whichever comes with Squeeze AMD64
22:38<supness08>i had to install from CD though.
22:38<DennisTheTiger>supness08: In the GUI, fire off a terminal window, go root, and type 'synaptic' - and hit enter.
22:38<DennisTheTiger>Easy peasy.
22:38<costas>it's ok, follow DennisTheTiger's hint
22:39<DennisTheTiger>...interesting. dmo is now not maintained since last week's release of Squeeze.
22:39<costas>type "su" on a terminal and then your pass, easy...
22:39-!-chaput [~chaput@70.35.166.201] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
22:40<DennisTheTiger>supness08: For what it's worth, if synaptic is installed, you have everything you need to run it. If it won't run, then while there's something wrong, the problem is trivial.
22:40<MrA>Are you has reinstalled synaptic ? or have hybrid repo ?
22:41<costas>supness08, you might want to get your apt cleaned just in case...
22:41<supness08>how would i clean apt
22:41<costas>"apt-get clean" then "apt-get update"...
22:41<costas>on a terminal, safe and easy
22:41<supness08>ok thanks costas, and dennis
22:42<supness08>it ran fine, but it isn't located in apps menu though
22:42<supness08>i will try cleaning!
22:42<Tiff>it is located in the administration menu, not apps menu.
22:42<DennisTheTiger>supness08: Gladly. =D
22:42-!-nutterpc [~nutterpc@ppp118-208-255-246.lns20.hba2.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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22:43<costas>(home made pizza gone down my throat, can't type fast enough to help hahahahaa)
22:44-!-Amorphous [jan@f049102180.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:44<costas>supness08, stick with debian and in no time you'd be an expert too
22:45<costas>check debian reference for commands and stuff...
22:45<costas>easier than windows and macos, and stable as a rock...
22:46<ml|_>supness08: yes, /msg dpkg debian reference
22:47<costas>Ubuntu lts version was worse than 8.04.... they were in a hurry and missed a whole lot of drivers...
22:48<costas>but the anecdote is windows 7... they do not even support my ethernet card 8-D
22:49-!-mode/#debian [+l 461] by debhelper
22:49<costas>and runs slower than a preemptive custom kernel...
22:49<DennisTheTiger>costas: Heh, I thought it was silly that even generic support for my ethernet card didn't exist in Windows XP - and it's some cheap on-motherboard device.
22:49-!-jazzkutya [~vrm__@catv-80-98-188-218.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #debian
22:50<costas>DennisTheTiger, my Microsoft webcam doesn't work on win 7.... it works fine on debian though... hahahahahaha
22:50<jazzkutya>why do the update wants to remove a couple of important kde packages, like konsole and amarok? I suspect the source of problem is kdelibs5-data from proposed updates
22:50-!-vmlintu [~vmlintu@nblzone-240-143.nblnetworks.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:51<DennisTheTiger>costas: Yeah, funny that. It's like they phase out hardware. My girlfriend, I think, had similar trouble with a gaming mouse she found, also Microsoft - but built for Win98, I think.
22:51-!-scrp3l [~scrp3l__@201.250.171.120] has joined #debian
22:51<DennisTheTiger>jazzkutya: Are you doing a dist-upgrade?
22:51<jazzkutya>well no because of this
22:52<costas>Still use XP for my pro studio... (cubase and pro tools sadly are universal, and I teach them)
22:52<jazzkutya>but dist-upgrade would want to remove the packages
22:52<jazzkutya>and I want to know why
22:53<DennisTheTiger>costas: I still have XP Pro for a couple of things - there's the occasional foray into Warcrack, and then WordPerfect 8 for Linux isn't supported anymore (nobody does a.out any longer)
22:53<costas>I'd prefer ardour and other linux audio apps, but peeps here in Greece doesn't know how to use linux
22:53<DennisTheTiger>costas: Buggers.
22:53-!-scrp3l [~scrp3l__@201.250.171.120] has quit []
22:53<supness08>haah, i really am coming to enjoy linux!
22:53<costas>ubuntu is taught in greek universities now though
22:54<jazzkutya>btw i first tried the usual update notifier in gnome
22:54<costas>Unreall tournament on linux gave me about 3 times more fps....
22:54<DennisTheTiger>!tell jazzkutya about dist-upgrade
22:54<costas>that was a blast
22:54<supness08>am i supposed to be able to compile wine through synaptic? It seems that synaptic is only a graphic verision of apt-get?
22:54<DennisTheTiger>costas: Never could get games running in wine, unfortunately. =/
22:54-!-nutterpc [~nutterpc@ppp118-208-255-246.lns20.hba2.internode.on.net] has joined #debian
22:55<jazzkutya>ok so why does it want to remove those packages?
22:55<costas>yes, but it's more informative supness08
22:55<DennisTheTiger>supness08: It's more a graphical version of aptitude.
22:55-!-Amorphous [jan@f048006054.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #debian
22:55<jazzkutya>what changed in kdelibs5-data that causes this?
22:55<supness08>n00b question, apt0get = aptitude?
22:55<costas>jakeriver, what version of debian you're using>
22:55<supness08>apt-get*
22:55<costas>???
22:56<costas>sorry jazzkutya...
22:56<DennisTheTiger>supness08: Nope. apt-get is a simple interface, aptitude is apt-get on steroids.
22:56<jazzkutya>costas: squeeze
22:56<DennisTheTiger>jazzkutya: Have you checked the changelogs?
22:56<jazzkutya>yups
22:56<DennisTheTiger>OK
22:56<jazzkutya>they say nothing abut breaking useful packages
22:56<supness08>so when installing i should use aptitude install <package>?
22:56<DennisTheTiger>Best advice I can think of is don't worry too much about it - reinstall afterwards if you're following the !tell I shot you.
22:56<costas>make a note of the packages, and try reinstalling them jazzkutya
22:57<ml|_>supness08: yes
22:57<DennisTheTiger>supness08: Couldn't hurt - general rule is that it's slightly more intelligent for that.
22:57<supness08>thanks!
22:57<ml|_>aptitude can do a lot man aptitude and man apt-get
22:58<jazzkutya>what if I just wait until it gets into main (or what is it after accepting it from proposed-updates) and see if it get's fixed by that time?
22:59<jazzkutya>this is really cumbersome otherwise
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22:59<costas>aptitude is fine but synaptic gets you more info if you're new to linux (you don't really need to install all 8000 and more packages)
23:00<DennisTheTiger>jazzkutya: my experience is that it will still do the same thing.
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23:00<ml|_>supness08: you will still need to use apt-get for certain things, since aptitude cannot do everything apt-get can do ATM
23:00<DennisTheTiger>jazzkutya: Figure that if you're doing a dist-upgrade, it is going to require some supervision.
23:01<DennisTheTiger>supness08: Like, for instance, apt-get has super cow powers.
23:01<jazzkutya>okay then one negative mark for debian "stable"
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23:02<DennisTheTiger>jazzkutya: Figure, too, that a sarge->etch I did back in the day broke X. I did not want that reinstall. =O.o=
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23:03<jazzkutya>but I've started with squeeze about a week ago and I don't see why would it do this
23:03<jazzkutya>no upgrade from one major version to other
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23:03<costas>back in the days we used just terminals when startx crashed.... and had to use nano and experiment.... these were the days
23:04<jazzkutya>(i am not sure I understand what you say about sarge->etch)
23:04<costas>no internet connection, just paper and persistence
23:04<jazzkutya>back in the days I used slackware
23:04<jazzkutya>then ubuntu came and made me lazy :)
23:04<DennisTheTiger>jazzkutya: Consider this - "stable" pretty much means that the installed operating system works. It does not mean, nor should it imply, that a major update will not do strange things. And to note, I've been using Debian since Sarge - which was the stable version in 2005.
23:04<sney>costas: word, most of my debian self-education was on a PowerPC 8500 running Potato
23:05<DennisTheTiger>jazzkutya: And this said, you're not in Slackware anymore. =)
23:05<costas>slack ruled. Ubuntu makes me wanna through my soundcard on the head of the alsa team...
23:05<DennisTheTiger>(gods, I hated slack.)
23:05<jazzkutya>DennisTheTiger: yup but that could change... or I may try gentoo next (if I will try anything else)
23:05<DennisTheTiger>jazzkutya: Your prerogative.
23:05<sney>slackware was alright in the 2.4 days, provided you didn't mind building anything you wanted to install from source, and all the deps
23:06<costas>I tried everything, but debian is the root of all evil, so I always keep it on my computers
23:06<DennisTheTiger>sney: that's why I hated slack. Dependency hell. Stuck it out with OS/2 or DOS until I found...well, ok, back then I went to Mandrake.
23:06-!-alephnull [~alok@122.167.254.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:06<DennisTheTiger>!beer costas
23:06*dpkg deftly decants a fine Dogfishhead 90min IPA for costas
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23:07<costas>thanks for the beer, got to check my exes on facebook (what a waste on time that facebook...)
23:08<costas>#of
23:08<sney>anyway. running things out of proposed-updates is going to be our new testing-unstable mix, I think
23:08<DennisTheTiger>costas: Feh, I just ignore The Ex. All she is doing is playing The Sims. =/
23:08<sney>any instability is inherent in using software not yet determined to be 'stable'
23:09<costas>did you know facebook tries to give you viruses via chat in the form of executables?
23:09<DennisTheTiger>sney: Hey, you know if there's a timeframe to get libreoffice into backports for squeeze?
23:09<sney>DennisTheTiger: no idea, sorry. I do know it's in the works. the maintainers would be the ones to know
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23:10<costas>dunno either DennisTheTiger
23:10<DennisTheTiger>sney: groovy, might just see if I can deb-src from sid in the meantime - though sid makes me a wee bit nervous....
23:10<sney>if you're doing ssb there's not much to worry about
23:10<MrA>All routes sounds in 6.0 work without problem ? because i cant hear events of log in and log out
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23:11<sney>MrA: if you can hear other sounds, it's most likely a configuration problem
23:11<DennisTheTiger>sney: Noted. Adding...
23:12<jazzkutya>DennisTheTiger: btw I'd rather call debian a dependency hell. with slackware you get a base OS with cleaner borders and if any special app just compiles from source or not is slack is too old :)
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23:12<jazzkutya>s/not is/not if/
23:13<MrA>thank you sney, but I tried several manuals configurations without effect
23:13<jazzkutya>s/and if/and then/
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23:13<jazzkutya>sorry, too late in the night
23:13<DennisTheTiger>jazzkutya: Look, you don't like it, don't use it. I don't like brussels sprouts, I don't eat 'em.
23:13<jazzkutya>just chatting, sorry
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23:15<DennisTheTiger>For ssb, am I fine tacking on 'main contrib non-free' as usual and proceeding accordingly?
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23:16<sney>yep
23:16<DennisTheTiger>groovy
23:16<costas>custom kernels aren't that fashionable nowadays, ain't they?
23:17<MrA>I can listen sounds of webs, but not events sounds of system, except the error.wav
23:17<MrA>lol
23:17<DennisTheTiger>...erm, silly questoin: should I be adding the security line for deb-src sid ssb?
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23:18<costas>I miss the years I spent in Canada, greece nowadays is too shity to live decently...
23:18<jazzkutya>should it be reported somewhere, that an upgrade from proposed-updates rendered konsole uninstallable?
23:18<costas>sorry about the chattery people
23:19<jazzkutya>and probably most of kde but I am not sure 'coz not using kde
23:19<costas>jazzkutya, yes, the proper way is bug report
23:19<sney>DennisTheTiger: security.debian.org? no, that only exists for stable
23:19<DennisTheTiger>sney: Got it, thanks. Don't mind me, I'm unfamiliar with sid in general - if only because I "have to ask". =D
23:20<costas>let's see if the dist-upgrade gets in time with my job....
23:21<costas>Ubuntu maintainers need an enema...
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23:22<DennisTheTiger>...aaaand no source package for libreoffice. Bugger all
23:23<costas>not enough volunteers to maintain good packages DennisTheTiger
23:23<sney>maybe it could be uupdated into openoffice
23:23<costas>gwhere is one hellava good one though
23:23<sney>the source structure is probably (?) the same
23:24<costas>!beer DennisTheTiger
23:24*dpkg deftly decants a fine Bornem Tripple for DennisTheTiger
23:24<DennisTheTiger>Thanks! =D
23:24<DennisTheTiger>What's gwhere?
23:25<DennisTheTiger>sney: Not likely - from what I gather, the fork was because the devs didn't like Oracle.
23:25<DennisTheTiger>Or rather, what they were doing to OSS.
23:25<costas>too much pizza will kill me.... thanks to my martial arts training I'd be ok tomorrow...
23:25<costas>gwhere is a CD/DVD catalogue app...
23:25<sney>DennisTheTiger: yeah, but it's a fork. typically they leave the dirs where they are
23:25<sney>so uupdate might be able to handle it, I dunno
23:25<DennisTheTiger>sney: Indeed
23:25<DennisTheTiger>...ooh, I think I found something.
23:26<sney>or you could always just build in independently and use stow
23:26<costas>used to install all debian apps just to test ride them...
23:27<sney>Nobody likes Oracle, by the way. I wonder what Murdock is doing these days
23:27<costas>then custom tailor the kernel naked from all the extras and run full speed
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23:28<sney>speaking of full speed, I can't wait for my new laptop to arrive.
23:28<costas>new laptops are cool, sney what are you getting?
23:28<DennisTheTiger>ooh, DAFSG and found a tarball that may contain the deb files.
23:29<sney>well, it's new to me. off-lease Thinkpad T60 from tigerdirect
23:29-!-mosno [~mosno@eth3903.vic.adsl.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:29<sney>the price was too good, I couldn't say no, and I'm getting a bit tired of this netbook's restrictions
23:30<costas>well, nowadays I plug in my mobile phone to charge on my laptop's usb without thinking, got an old acer travelmate 2300
23:31<costas>tried the newest photoshop on it and waited for minutes.... then restarted and got the job done on gimp fast and linux style
23:32<costas>debian rulez...
23:32<DennisTheTiger>jeebus, why didn't they just put up a deb repository instead of shovelling all the .debs in a single tarball?
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23:33<costas>repos have a strict logic, maybe you found it on backports or somewhere else?
23:33<kop>costas: Yeah, but I suspect that the new gimp sucks. I liked having separate windows.
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23:34<DennisTheTiger>costas: Found it on the libreoffice website, put a factoid in dpkg already.
23:34<costas>sorry I missed it,pizza on the brain you know....
23:34<kop>,versions libreoffice
23:34<judd>Package libreoffice on i386 -- sid: 1:3.3.1~rc1-2
23:35<kop>It'll probably make backports.
23:35<DennisTheTiger>kop: I'm sure of it, just wanted to play a bit and compare. =D
23:35<costas>facebook is such a disgrace....
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23:36<costas>but I have my work projects on it... for free of course
23:36<DennisTheTiger>kop: Something about a load to an ftp site already, lemme see if I can find that bug report...
23:36<costas>at least adobe decided to make the amd64 port this year
23:36-!-sigur [~Sigur@host243-8-dynamic.9-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:37<costas>minitube is another gem on linux apps
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23:38<DennisTheTiger>Here it is. 606368. Granted, this was done at the tail end of 2010.
23:38<DennisTheTiger>OK, time to sift through the debs. But first, something to smoke.
23:38*DennisTheTiger &
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23:39<mohan43u>is there any howtos to enable gtalk audio/video in pidgin?
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---Logclosed Mon Feb 14 00:00:05 2011