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#debian IRC Logs for 2011-04-03

---Logopened Sun Apr 03 00:00:16 2011
00:00<amphi>kop: sorry, I had a feeble spasm of enthusiasm - it won't happen again
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00:05<mercutio22>thanks guys
00:06<mercutio22>kop: I had done aptitude search pylab but I had no output. I din't know apt-file =].
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00:07<amphi>apt-file is your friend
00:08<ZykoticK9>amphi, what is the difference between apt-file and apt-cache (other then apt-file not being installed by default)
00:08<sney>apt-file searches package contents
00:08<ZykoticK9>amphi, umm, sorry perhaps apt-file is installed by default
00:09<ZykoticK9>sney, thanks
00:09<amphi>ZykoticK9: I don't know about that
00:09<sney>also, apt-file's database is separate from the main apt one and is not updated automatically when you apt-get (or aptitude) update
00:09<amphi>ZykoticK9: it's like dpkg -S but it also searches in packages you have not installed
00:10<ZykoticK9>amphi, neat - thanks.
00:10<amphi>de nada
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00:11<mercutio22>amphi: you speak portuguese?
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00:12<amphi>not a word
00:12<amphi>a little .es
00:12<mercutio22>amphi: well, two words at least.
00:13<mercutio22>I see
00:13<amphi>by chance ;)
00:13<edbian>I like to have a terminal open ssh'd into my other machine. I can run apps using & (e.g. firefox&) but all the ouptut is still dumped to the screen that I'm using for other things. When I run several programs it gets ridiculous. How can I surpress this output?
00:14<sney>you can > /dev/null
00:14<kop>edbian: foo 2>/dev/null >/dev/null &
00:14<amphi>just do ctrl-a-c and get another term with no association with your vomiting guiapps
00:15<amphi>I perhaps misread your use of 'screen'…
00:15<tharkun><rant> Why on earth there is no barry-util and all friends on sid on version 0.17.x </rant>
00:16<edbian>kop, Does the first send stdout and the second stderr ?
00:16<kop>edbian: other way around
00:16<edbian>kop, Thanks! :)
00:17<ZykoticK9>foo >&/dev/null should send both out and err to bin bucket
00:17<kop>edbian: foo 2>&1 >/dev/null & ;# either way works.
00:17<edbian>What's the 2 ?
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00:17<sney>redirects stderr to stdout
00:17<kop>edbian: 0 == stdin, 1 == sdtout, 2== stderr
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00:18<pparadis>3 == martian interplanetary network
00:18<kop>ZykoticK9: What shell is that?
00:18<edbian>haha, thanks
00:19<ZykoticK9>kop, bash
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00:23<kop>ZykoticK9: I see. Is that posix? (does it work in dash?)
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00:24<ZykoticK9>kop, ? don't know... sorry.
00:25<kop>ZykoticK9: No worries. If I wasn't lazy I'd try it.
00:26<ZykoticK9>kop, it doesn't work in dash :(
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00:26<amphi>à bas le dash!
00:27<kop>ZykoticK9: Ah well. I'm still learning stupid shell tricks as in "csh considered harmful". (Those interested in shell can google it.)
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00:44<Mulauzi>one minor question, about nautilus : i chose to open a folder with the "open with..." dialogue. now every time i rightclick a folder, i see the suggestion to open it with file manager. this bothers me. how can i remove this suggested "open with" dialouge from the context menue
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00:53<wolfpython>Anyone knows the default configuration of console fonts and its size in lenny? the console size of Chars in squeeze is too small
00:54<sney>not in X, right? it's managed through console-setup, you can do dpkg-reconfigure console-setup as root to get a bunch of options
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---Logopened Sun Apr 03 00:56:10 2011
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00:56-!-Irssi: #debian: Total of 440 nicks [2 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 438 normal]
00:56<smacnay>how does one reconfigure X itself? To make sure colour depth is correct and other options? It used to be the /etc/X11/Xorg.conf file but not anymore.
00:57<wolfpython>sney: yes, but I try many , it's still small
00:57<sney>it's all autodetected these days, but you can generate an xorg.conf by running X -configure
00:57<Mulauzi>concerning my question. i tried this to reset the file association for containers :
00:57<Mulauzi>but there is no "open with" tab in the properties for the folder
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00:58<wolfpython>fixed , vga 14,and 16 , too small , when I read source code , it's not so comfortable (I'm shortsighted)
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01:01<sney>wolfpython: might be kms related
01:01<dpkg>Kernel Mode Setting (KMS) has graphical modes initialized by the Linux kernel instead of X. It is hardware dependent, introduced in Linux 2.6.29. Enabled via modprobe as of xserver-xorg-video-intel 2:2.9.1-2 and xserver-xorg-video-radeon 1:6.12.192-2. To disable, edit /etc/modprobe.d/{i915,radeon}-kms.conf or boot with the 'nomodeset' kernel command line parameter.
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01:03<wolfpython>thanks ! I'll have a try ~
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01:13<SynrG>bigger fonts are available than 16, aren't there?
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01:14<SynrG>Fixed goes up to 18
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01:18<wolfpython>SynrG: yes , I'll try later , my squeeze box is not at hand now . thanks
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01:19<imperium>hi, im running wheezy. i include squeeze repo on sources.list. my question is why do i have to full download squeeze packages files (not diff files) everytime i run apt-get update?
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01:19<imperium>sorry for my bad english
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01:20<hector>hi, is there anyone can help ? >> stacheldraht problem, please
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01:21<phillipsjk>What would cause the terminal to echo a return-linefeed, but not proccess the command?
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---Logopened Sun Apr 03 01:23:52 2011
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02:08<phillipsjk>... restarting an moving the mouse to a differnt USB port seemd to fix it (keyboard is PS/2).
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03:03<Mulauzi>hi i want to build pidgin from source, it says it requires glib 2.12.0 or greater. in the apt repository i only find glib2.0.0 but when searching the database it lists some packages that "contain bindings for 2.12.0" or something. am I fine installing glib2.0.0 ?
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03:19<ussr>ÄÏÂÒÙÊ ÄÅÎØ
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03:42<XeonBloomfield>09:42 at CET
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03:48<tuhin>dpkg: hi
03:48<dpkg>privet, tuhin
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03:49<tuhin>how are you dpkg
03:49<tuhin>dpkg how are you
03:49<dpkg>tuhin: you know how it is...
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03:50<tuhin>dpkg: r u bored?
03:50<dpkg>tuhin: I give up, what is it?
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03:50<tuhin>dpkg: are you bored
03:50<dpkg>tuhin: I don't know, could you explain it?
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03:56<tuhin>dpkg: debian is excellent
03:56<dpkg>tuhin: cannot alter locked factoids
03:56<dpkg>tuhin: I give up, what is it?
03:58<ompaul>tuhin: you could go play with a search engine ;-)
03:58<tuhin>i just heard that dpkg can reply , so i tried
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04:23<linuxuz3r>whats the dvd 1 dvd 2 dvd 3 and so on of debian?
04:23<linuxuz3r>im confused
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04:23<tuhin>those r packages linuxuz3r
04:23<tuhin>u dont need to DL them all
04:24<linuxuz3r>what should i download
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04:25<tuhin>depends on which version u want
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04:25<babilen>linuxuz3r: Do you have a working (wired) internet connection during the installation and will you have internet access afterwards?
04:25<linuxuz3r>id like the latest version
04:26<linuxuz3r>well i want the dvd installer
04:26<babilen>Why is that?
04:26<linuxuz3r>i have the internet access afterwards
04:26<babilen>!various CD1
04:26<dpkg>There are CD-1 choices for various DEs (Desktop Environments) - there's one for GNOME, another for KDE, and one for XFCE/LXDE. For example; if you wanted the XFCE/LXDE CD-1 of Squeeze, you'd grab -> debian-600-i386-xfce+lxde-CD-1.iso from the mirrors (if you were going for i386 arch). Also ask me about <firmware images>, <release notes>, <ig>, <setup.exe>.
04:27<babilen>But you can instal from DVD1 too. :)
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04:27<linuxuz3r>!various DVD1
04:27<linuxuz3r>!various CD2
04:28<tuhin>linuxuz3r: u might want live CD/DVD than normal install only cd/dvd
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04:28<linuxuz3r>is there a live iso
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04:29<linuxuz3r>what various is that
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04:30<linuxuz3r>can i install from this live dvd to my hdd
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04:31<tuhin>but that live cd is 32 bit i think
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04:32<babilen>linuxuz3r: To make this clear: The DVD1-8 contain *every* single package in Debian. You don't need them if you have a working internet connection. We typically recommend the netinstall images (and I would recommend the netinstall with firmware) to people who have a working (wired) connection *during* the install.
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04:32<babilen>linuxuz3r: If all you want is installing the system I wouldn't use the live cd.
04:33<linuxuz3r>the system?
04:33<linuxuz3r>i want a desktop environment
04:33<linuxuz3r>and debian
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04:33<linuxuz3r>i want the desktop environment aswell
04:33<tuhin>babilen: live cd is good to let the user get the feel of debian before install
04:33<babilen>tuhin: hence "if all you want"
04:34<tuhin>babilen: is there anythign missing in the live cd if one installs from live cd??
04:34<tuhin>i m new to debian ,so i dont know
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04:36<babilen>linuxuz3r: You can install the "Desktop" task with all installation images (netinst,cd1,dvd1) -- The netinstall installer will download the needed packages from the internet. If you don't have a a working internet connection during the installation there are different CD1 flavours for the different DEs -- DVD1 contains all of them.
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04:39<linuxuz3r>ok so i can download dvd 1 and install debian and gnome
04:39<babilen>linuxuz3r: There are also (semi-) unofficial images that contain non-free firmware packages.
04:39<linuxuz3r>i just want a debian install for now
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04:39<linuxuz3r>dvd 1 is good for it?
04:39<tuhin>normal debian comes with gnome by default
04:39<babilen>linuxuz3r: Right, but you can do the same with CD1 or (if you have a wired network connection) with the netinstall
04:40<linuxuz3r>does debian have a good gui for installation?
04:40<babilen>linuxuz3r: If you don't mind the size of the download, use DVD1 -- I wouldn't waste that much time and bandwith, because you will download a lot of things you don't need.
04:40<tuhin>it have gnome as DE /gui
04:40<dpkg>The Debian Installation Guide for Squeeze (6.0) can be found at . See also <errata> <firmware images> <installer firmware> <release notes>.
04:41<babilen>linuxuz3r: It looks a bit like this (previous version of Debian)
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04:46<tuhin>babilen: whats the difference between netinstall / cd1 / live cd install? wouldn't netinstall take more time on a slow connection?
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04:48<babilen>one second please
04:52<babilen>tuhin: I don't know your setup and what kind of internet connection you have. I would recommend either the firmware netinstall or CD1. CD1 contains everything you need to install and the netinstall will download it during the installation. The installation itself will therefore be slower if you use the netinstall, but you don't have to wait that long for the image download.
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04:53<tuhin>i have multiple pcs and 128kbps limited bandwidth
04:53<tuhin>so i downloaded 6.01 live cd
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04:54<tuhin>i think the cd saves time by not DLing samething over and over
04:54<deux>hi everyone, does anyone know of a zip and rar program that adds the options to unzip/unrar files to the mouse menus?
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04:55<tuhin>which IRC channel is for Debian LXDE? i see xfce channel but none for lxde
04:55<babilen>deux: I think you want file-roller
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04:56<babilen>tuhin: I don't think that a specific channel exists. You can ask your questions in here. Note that there are LXDE CD1 images, so you want those if you want to install LXDE
04:57<tuhin>i downloaded DEbian Live LXDE 6.01 iso
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04:57<tuhin>didnt install yet though
04:57<tuhin>just finished DL yesterday
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04:58<babilen>tuhin: ok
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04:59<tuhin>what is debian-boot cahnnel for?
05:00<deux>thank you babilen, as always a great help
05:00<babilen>tuhin: Discussion of installer development
05:00<babilen>deux: my pleasure :)
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05:00<deux>btw 0 is there a way to allow file-roller to support rar?
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05:01<babilen>deux: Not quite sure, I would assume that you need to install unrar (from non-free would be best), but I don't know if file-roller with incorporate it automagically. Try it and see ;)
05:02<deux>well, it does work automagically
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05:03<babilen>deux: I typically just use the tools directly on the command line or the "unp" wrapper
05:03<deux>thanks again
05:03<deux>have a great day
05:03<babilen>you too
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05:19<imperium>hi, im running wheezy. i include squeeze repo on sources.list. my question is why do i have to full download squeeze packages files (not .diff files) everytime i run apt-get update?
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05:20<fbs>what is the best way to get a minimal xorg installation ? xserver-xorg-core installs shit like input-wacom & video-voodoo,
05:21<dutchfish>hi, can someone help me with a fresh install of debian/squeeze/i386/kde with this errors:
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05:23<dutchfish>this is my card that produces these errors: 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 82845G/GL[Brookdale-G]/GE Chipset Integrated Graphics Device (rev 01)
05:24<dutchfish>any hints welcome
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05:33<XeonBloomfield>Welcome next time
05:33<XeonBloomfield>I'm XeonBloomfield.
05:33<XeonBloomfield>Are there Debian developers?
05:34-!-Jussi [] has joined #debian
05:35<XeonBloomfield>Simple pool
05:35<XeonBloomfield>For what are you using your Debian? ;)
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05:38<dutchfish>XeonBloomfield, ask the bot about 'why debian'
05:39<XeonBloomfield>dutchfish - I want to do simple pool in people
05:39<XeonBloomfield>I use Debian every day
05:39<dutchfish>XeonBloomfield, i think you are barking at the wrong tree ;)
05:39<XeonBloomfield>On desktop, notebook, and my servers
05:40<tuhin>is it possible to install ubuntu packages in debian6?
05:40<XeonBloomfield>It is possible
05:41-!-mode/#debian [+l 471] by debhelper
05:41<tuhin>dont want to dl again= slow limited connection
05:41<tuhin>XeonBloomfield: no problems?
05:42<dutchfish>tuhin, ubuntu is not debian! while most are simular, they are not the same!
05:42<tuhin>dpkg: why debian
05:42<XeonBloomfield>I am using only one app from Ubuntu package
05:42<dpkg>Debian strives to maintain your freedom whilst also paying close attention to the technical aspects of making a great OS. Debian is stable, upgradable and well tested. See also (archived at . As an added bonus, you get to ask questions in #debian.
05:42<XeonBloomfield>So I have not big experience at it at all
05:42<tuhin>i m trying debian lxde live
05:43<tuhin>dutchfish: can u tell more?
05:43<tuhin>i have 3 gb of ubuntu packages
05:43<tuhin>took v long to dl
05:43<XeonBloomfield>I'm using CodeLite from Ubuntu package, because Debian has 2.6.0 version of it, where latest is 2.9.0 ;)
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05:44<dutchfish>tuhin, sure
05:45<dutchfish>tuhin, well, why not use net-install then?
05:45<tuhin>dutchfish: i wanted to know about ubuntu package installing in debian
05:45<dutchfish>tuhin, on avarage a netinstall is far less then 3GB
05:46<tuhin>net-install will take too long+ i have multiple pcs
05:46<XeonBloomfield>dutchfish, 3 GiB installed or downloaded?
05:46<tuhin>i installed those packckages over time
05:46<dutchfish>tuhin, well ubuntu uses its own packages for many and are not the same as the debian ones
05:46<tuhin>not during isntall
05:46<tuhin>so i cant reuse those packages?
05:46<XeonBloomfield>You can
05:46<XeonBloomfield>But there can be problems
05:46<tuhin>there r games etc
05:47<XeonBloomfield>In most cases it will work
05:47<dutchfish>tuhin, why would you? even if you could, they become obselete some day or sooner anyway
05:47<s4br3>tuhin: which games?
05:47<tuhin>so , which program installs programs in debian?
05:47<s4br3>tuhin: aptitude
05:47<XeonBloomfield>But example is difference between Debian and Ubuntu packages used by Chromium
05:47<tuhin>openareana, assault cube nexuiz etc
05:48<XeonBloomfield>tuhin, these games will work without problems
05:48<s4br3>tuhin: those are available in Debian too - aptitude install nexuiz etc
05:48<XeonBloomfield>of course, you can use "apt-get" too
05:48<tuhin>i dont want to DL the packages I already downloaded
05:48<XeonBloomfield>it is also available on Debian
05:48<s4br3>XeonBloomfield: sure
05:48<XeonBloomfield>so install them
05:48<tuhin>limited bandwith
05:48<XeonBloomfield>dpkg -i package.deb
05:48<dpkg>package package.deb is already installed
05:49<s4br3>tuhin: Well, use the Debian packages for Debian.
05:49<tuhin>aptitude is CLI
05:49<dutchfish>XeonBloomfield, don't tell lies and don't tell people to mess up there systems!
05:49-!-adi [~adi@2001:470:b471:0:ac96:751:f6c8:b9c6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:49<tuhin>any GUI ?
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05:50<XeonBloomfield>dutchfish, why? I have experience with these packages
05:50<s4br3>tuhin: apt-get install synaptic
05:50<XeonBloomfield>And I'm pretty up sure that they will work
05:50<XeonBloomfield>Question was: "Can I install Ubuntu packages on Debian?" so answer is simple: "yes"
05:51<XeonBloomfield>Some packages can not work, but it is caused by difference between Debian and Ubuntu
05:51<dutchfish>XeonBloomfield, in many cases *not*
05:51<s4br3>XeonBloomfield: But if the package is available in Debian, don't
05:52<XeonBloomfield>I think that best example in differences is Chromium build dependencies
05:52<tuhin>so , if i use debian , i have to be content with old versions?
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05:52<XeonBloomfield>"If you want to install the build-deps manually, note that the original packages are for Ubuntu. Here are the Debian equivalents:
05:52<XeonBloomfield>libexpat-dev -> libexpat1-dev
05:52<XeonBloomfield>freetype-dev -> libfreetype6-dev
05:52<XeonBloomfield>libbzip2-dev -> libbz2-dev"
05:52-!-XeonBloomfield was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use or /msg dpkg paste]
05:52<dutchfish>XeonBloomfield, now take your remarks somewhere else, if you have a real Debian question do ask, also msg the bot about ask
05:52<s4br3>tuhin: no, not if you use unstable (which is the one underlying Ubuntu...)
05:53<tuhin>debhelper: u r too harsh
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05:53<tuhin>i will install 6.01 and wouldnt update
05:53<XeonBloomfield>Sorry for that spam
05:54<tuhin>i hate updating eating up my bandwith
05:54<s4br3>tuhin: is bandwidth an issue any longer?!
05:54<tuhin>limited data transfer
05:54<tuhin>i m from aisa
05:54<XeonBloomfield>tuhin, to have up-to-date system is necessary
05:54<XeonBloomfield>What limit have you?
05:54<tuhin>maybe will update every few months
05:55<dutchfish>tuhin, if you have access to th enet form another computer, you might find jigdo-light convenient too
05:55<s4br3>tuhin: if you want the latest and greatest version, it HAS to be update
05:55<tuhin>that will cause any problem?
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05:55<s4br3>Check to see how fast graphics drivers are evolving
05:55<tuhin>300-400 MB evday -its not clear
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05:55<XeonBloomfield>no, but you will have old and probably bugged versions of software
05:56<XeonBloomfield>tuhin, what do you have installed?!
05:56<XeonBloomfield>I have maybe 10 MiB of updates every week...
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05:56<tuhin>it is possible to update only the the packages i need right?
05:56<s4br3>XeonBloomfield: same here
05:56<tuhin>i only downloaded 6.01 LXDE live
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05:56<XeonBloomfield>Yes it is possible tuhin
05:56<tuhin>trying it from usb now
05:57<tuhin>will install soon
05:57<XeonBloomfield>check out Debian
05:57<s4br3>tuhin: LXDE is nice for low-end machines
05:57<XeonBloomfield>it is really good system
05:57<tuhin>yeah i like lxde
05:57<XeonBloomfield>s4br3, not only for low-end machines
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05:58<s4br3>XeonBloomfield: ok?! ;)
05:58<tuhin>why synaptic doesnt come with CD ??!?!!!!!
05:58<XeonBloomfield>It comes
05:58<s4br3>tuhin: Don't know
05:58<tuhin>i have AMD quad core +4GB
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05:59<XeonBloomfield>I'm using Debian 6 ("squeeze") and it was installed when I was installing system
05:59<tuhin>who decides what packages gets shipped by default?
05:59<s4br3>tuhin: so go with KDE 4 (or perhaps Gnome )
05:59<tuhin>debian should come with GUI instaler preinstalled!!
05:59<s4br3>tuhin: it does
05:59<tuhin>i heard kde is bloated
05:59<tuhin>i disable all effects
05:59<s4br3>tuhin: false rumour
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06:00<tuhin>how much ram KDE4 DEbian takes on boot?
06:00<s4br3>tuhin: KDE4 ran on my P3-700MHz
06:00<tuhin>why i cant find synaptic in live lxde?
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06:00<XeonBloomfield>System > Administration > Synaptic Package Manager
06:00<s4br3>tuhin: you need to install it using "aptitude install synaptic" first
06:01<s4br3>XeonBloomfield: thanks
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06:01<XeonBloomfield>s4br3: It is not installed by default?
06:01<s4br3>XeonBloomfield: I'm not sure
06:01<s4br3>XeonBloomfield: never use it
06:01<XeonBloomfield>I'm not sure about LXDE version too
06:01<tuhin>that is bad decission
06:02<s4br3>tuhin: perhaps
06:02<tuhin>debian needs to get newbie friendly
06:02<XeonBloomfield>tuhin: default packages is partially accepted to be shipped default by package popularity contest
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06:03<s4br3>But for initial installation, there is a GUI
06:03<tuhin>but without GUI package installer/management debian cant get newbie friendly
06:03<XeonBloomfield>tuhin: try to install Gentoo without handbook :P
06:03<locale>Hi, I am currently trying to make my .de debian into a .en debian. I used dpkg-reconfigure, uninstalled all german locales and ran locale-gen afterwards too.
06:03<XeonBloomfield>it can be simply called "hardcore installation"
06:04<tuhin>XeonBloomfield: gentoo is for experts
06:04<locale>But I still get this warning: sh: warning: setlocale: LC_ALL: cannot change locale (de_DE@euro)
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06:04<s4br3>tuhin: I ran it for three years before coming over to Debian
06:04<XeonBloomfield>tuhin: You are talking with ;)
06:04<tuhin>why s4br3 ?
06:04<tuhin>i m not expert, so gentoo not for me
06:05<s4br3>I wanted to get a hairy chest. But all I got was grey hairs... ;)
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06:05<tuhin>lol s4br3
06:05<XeonBloomfield>I hope that s4br3 didn't want to spend hours on compilling software
06:05<s4br3>XeonBloomfield: It really didn't take that much time, but aptitude is SO much easier
06:06<XeonBloomfield>s4br3: yeah
06:06<s4br3>And, irritatingly, Debian is just as fast
06:06<s4br3>So, why bother w Gentoo
06:06<tuhin>debian should install synaptic by default in every cd/dvd/netinstall
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06:07<s4br3>tuhin: So it is not there? I don't know
06:07<cthuluh>err, not on netinstall
06:07<XeonBloomfield>tuhin: I sure that it is installed by default in "CD1" installation
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06:07<XeonBloomfield>I have not to install it manually
06:08<tuhin>ok , i will see when i install it in hdd, using live cd mode now
06:08<tuhin>i already use Mint10 installed in hdd
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06:08<XeonBloomfield>I used "normal" installation disk (not livecd)
06:09<tuhin>is there any difference between package selection between the 2?
06:09<tuhin>live and normal cd?
06:09<s4br3>if you can learn to CLI type "aptitude install packagename" and "aptitude remove packagename" you will be a l33t dude!
06:10<XeonBloomfield>i think that normal cd has some more shipped in, because it not need to run working system from disk and it had packages packed
06:10<tuhin>yes i know those commands
06:10<s4br3>tuhin: ;)
06:10<tuhin>but synaptic lets u search etc
06:10<s4br3>tuhin: aptitude search packagename
06:10<tuhin>s4br3: is there any difference between package selection between the 2?live and normal cd?
06:11<XeonBloomfield>tuhin: Maybe you don't know, but Debian also has "Software Center" what is like "Ubuntu Software Center"
06:11<s4br3>tuhin: not sure, but I never install any packages at first install. Just KDE
06:11<tuhin>ok , how do i install kde and gnome ?
06:11<s4br3>tuhin: and then install the packages once the system is up and running
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06:12<SynrG>tuhin, XeonBloomfield: live CD should be equivalent to installing tasks "standard", "desktop" and "laptop".
06:12<s4br3>tuhin: Just choose the correct .iso
06:12<SynrG>using standard CD1
06:12<XeonBloomfield>SynrG: It made it clearer
06:12<tuhin>already downlaoded Debian LXDE Live 6.01
06:12<SynrG>your reasoning that live CD has less room is wrong. we made no effort to make the live images fit within a certain media size
06:13<XeonBloomfield>I spend hours on coding in PHP and C++ so I time to time have some time to work at the system
06:13<SynrG>of the live CDs, only the non-desktop flavours (as explained at actually fit on a CD anymore. the others require DVDs or USB sticks of an appropriate size
06:14<SynrG>that is, we took pains to ensure the live images diverge as little as possible from "standard"
06:14<XeonBloomfield>SynrG: Are you Debian developer?
06:14<SynrG>that being said, read the whole page linked above, as there are a number of differences from standard (notably, restrictions in number of architectures supported & languages)
06:15<SynrG>i am. on the debian-live team.
06:15<tuhin>SynrG: synaptic comes preinstalled when installed to hdd from live cd ?
06:15<XeonBloomfield>Nice to know
06:15<XeonBloomfield>SynrG: tuhin question is interesting
06:15<SynrG>tuhin: look for the .packages files in the same directory as the files. this is covered in now.
06:16<tuhin>SynrG: is debain intended to be user friendly for newbies?
06:16<tuhin>over time?
06:16<s4br3>SynrG: Where do you find the KDE version. It always so hard to find
06:17<SynrG>of live? it is not hard. the live page links to i386 & amd64 images and all flavours are in the same dir together
06:17<XeonBloomfield>s4br3: KDE version of Debian? :P
06:18<s4br3>When you install Debian using netinstall you need to choose an iso labelled KDE etc
06:18<XeonBloomfield>s4br3: Yeah, I know. I was interested at your words
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06:18<SynrG>tuhin: Debian is concerned about usability for all users. it is a "universal OS" meaning that we cannot single out a single audience in exclusion to others. so I don't think you can say it is particularly *not* designed to be user friendly
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06:19<SynrG>that being said, if given a choice between technical excellence and newbie-friendliness, Debian will tend to favour the former.
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06:19<XeonBloomfield>SynrG: When was released Debian 6.0.1a?
06:19<tuhin>but the download debian page is very confusing imho
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06:20<SynrG>XeonBloomfield: this should be plain looking at the "News" on our web site
06:20<XeonBloomfield>Latest news is about release of Debian 6.0.1
06:20<SynrG>tuhin: which page? in what way do you think it can be improved?
06:21<SynrG>XeonBloomfield: check dates of files, then. 6.0.1 is the release of *Debian*, 6.0.1a is a fix for the images, as the original ones were broken
06:21<tuhin>all pages under
06:21<s4br3>or better
06:21<tuhin>the gnome/kde etc versions should be in seperate page with screen shots
06:21<SynrG>note that there are no 6.0.1a live images. this is because the breakage didn't affect those images
06:21<XeonBloomfield>SynrG: I think that he speaking about not clearly showed download option
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06:21<XeonBloomfield>SynrG: Thank you for explanation.
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06:22<SynrG>tuhin: yes. we are aware that /CD/ needs restructuring. the plan is to make /distrib be the central point for all such material
06:22<tuhin>in other linux sites, its easyer to find the DL link
06:22<XeonBloomfield>SynrG: He is speaking about not simply available "Download button" with direct link to image
06:22<SynrG>tuhin: when i say "we" i have switched to my "web team" hat :)
06:22<XeonBloomfield>It is a big discomfort
06:23<s4br3>Can someone explain how to navigate from the start page to I cannot do it.
06:23<XeonBloomfield>SynrG: You can say them that there should be "Download button" for 32-bit and 64-bit version of Debian and current content under it
06:25<SynrG>s4br3: sure. navigate to a subdirectory and click "Parent Directory" to get there.
06:25<th>great idea, where do we submit ideas for web site?
06:25<SynrG>s4br3: it is not intended to be a primary entrypoint.
06:25<s4br3>SynrG: :D
06:25<tuhin>i vote for th 's idea
06:25<XeonBloomfield>th: "To report a problem with the web site, e-mail For other contact information, see the Debian contact page."
06:26<tuhin>i post my ideas there
06:26<th>XeonBloomfield, thanks
06:26<s4br3>SynrG: Seriously, how do you get to the KDE iso file I linked to above from the start page?
06:26<tuhin>also promotes other's idea
06:26<SynrG>th: there is a pseudopackage. you can file wishlist bugs on that.
06:26<SynrG>using reportbug
06:27<SynrG>there is also a feedback button on the bottom of each page.
06:27<XeonBloomfield>s4br3: Getting Debian > Download large installation images > Download CD/DVD images using HTTP or FTP. > A complete list of debian-cd/ mirrors
06:27<SynrG>my impression is that reportbug is more formal and better tracked.
06:27<XeonBloomfield>"If in doubt, use the primary CD image server in Sweden."
06:27<tuhin>s4br3: ^^^^^
06:27<babilen>s4br3: → CD ISO images → Download CD/DVD images using HTTP or FTP → amd64 → debian-6.0.1a-amd64-kde-CD-1.iso
06:27<XeonBloomfield>s4br3: > "If in doubt, use the primary CD image server in Sweden." > and you are in ""
06:28<tuhin>i only now found out that there is a 64bit live cd too
06:28<XeonBloomfield>tuhin: hahahhahah
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06:28<tuhin>i got confused seeing all those isos when i started download and downloaded 32 bi live
06:28<th>got it
06:28<XeonBloomfield>SynrG: You see... Website can be rebuilt in "Getting Debian" section
06:29<XeonBloomfield>SynrG: could be*
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06:29<SynrG>tuhin: because you navigated to live some way other than /CD/live ?
06:29<XeonBloomfield>SynrG: I have not problems with site, but it could be more simply for newbies
06:30<SynrG>tuhin: i mean, you missed amd64 for this reason?
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06:30<tuhin>think so SynrG
06:30<SynrG>XeonBloomfield: didn't i just say that? I said we're aware /CD/ is messy and we're planning to restructure under /distrib/
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06:30<tuhin>but its not big problem for me, as i can live with 32 bit
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06:31<tuhin>i have both 64 and 32 bit pcs
06:31<XeonBloomfield>SynrG: ;)
06:31<tuhin>and i mostly DL 32 bit , coz i m on limited bandwidth
06:31<SynrG>tuhin: you may be interested to hear we're working on multiarch live images for wheezy.
06:31<s4br3>SynrG and babilen: Thanks for the links.
06:31<tuhin>what is that
06:31<XeonBloomfield>tuhin: If you have processor with 64 bit instruction set support use 64 bit system
06:31<SynrG>i386/amd64 on one image
06:31<SynrG>not much help for limited bandwidth ...
06:32<tuhin>that will be wonderfull
06:32<SynrG>but easier for end-users :)
06:32<babilen>tuhin: In a way you should have come here before you downloaded anything. You asked and I explained your options, but you didn't want to take them into account because you already downloaded some images. I hope you have a better overview of your options now.
06:32<tuhin>i DL 32 bit only coz dotn want to DL another 64bit iso only for 1 pc
06:32<babilen>tuhin: There are already multiarch installer images -- You can use them to install i386 and amd64
06:32<s4br3>tuhin: but w +4GB RAM why not use the 64-bit?!
06:33<tuhin>babilen: i didnt see any such images . any link?
06:33<babilen>tuhin: Only netinstall ones though
06:33<tuhin>i have 4GB ram in my 64 bit cpu
06:33<XeonBloomfield>tuhin: 32-bit system use up to 3.6 GiB of RAM
06:34<XeonBloomfield>or some around 3.4 GiB
06:34<s4br3>XeonBloomfield: but some 32-bit apps can't do even that I guess
06:34<meglaw>i have 192mb sdr :)
06:34<tuhin>the multi-arch name is not self explained , need better naming ??
06:35<babilen>XeonBloomfield: Wrong -- That was/is a limitation of a particular chipset. There are -bigmem kernel images and you can also easily install an amd64 kernel on an i386 system. Single processes will not be able to address more than 4GB though in either case.
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06:35<XeonBloomfield>babilen: Oh...
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06:35<babilen>tuhin: "multi-architecture" ?
06:35<s4br3>tuhin: case in point! It is not evident that arch stand for architecture, it could be the distro "Arch"
06:35<tuhin>ihave old pc with 256 MB, 768 MB , 1.4GB , 2 GB , 3GB and 4 GB :)
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06:35<tuhin>yeah s4br3
06:35<tuhin>i thought abt arch linux when i saw that
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06:36<s4br3>I think it sould be renamed agnostic... :D
06:36<babilen>s4br3: Why would Debian provide Arch Linux images?
06:37<s4br3>babilen: compataility?
06:37<babilen>s4br3: It is not agnostic as you can *only* install amd64 and i386 with it.
06:37<XeonBloomfield>I have got 8 GiB RAM what is really needed for me (software developer and tester) so I always use 64-bit system on 64-bit architecture CPU, because if it has 2 GiB of RAM it can be updated without problem to for example up to motherboard memory limit
06:37<tuhin>it should be called x86+x64
06:37<babilen>s4br3: Canterbury Linux as an April Fool's joke
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06:37<babilen>Something like "debian-6.0.1a-amd64-i386-netinst.iso" maybe? ;)
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06:38<tuhin>yes babilen
06:38<babilen>tuhin: That is what it is called right now.
06:38<th>well, amd64 might confuse users with intel cpu... =)
06:38<th>just kidding
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06:38<tuhin>the folder name is confusing
06:39<s4br3>tharkun: and IA32 would confuse AMD users...
06:39<tuhin>so never went inside that folder
06:39<SynrG>tuhin: we don't guarantee all portions of all URL paths to be self-explanatory. if there is any explaining to do, it happens on the website.
06:39<s4br3>th: and IA32 would confuse AMD users...
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06:39<SynrG>don't read our URL scheme as documentation for the contents of the site.
06:39<s4br3>SynrG: WORD
06:39<tuhin>folder name should be changed to amd64-i386-netinst
06:39<SynrG>it aims to be as self-explanatory as possible for the not-so-easily-confused :)
06:40<SynrG>without getting into ridiculously long URLs
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06:40<SynrG>and some inconsistencies are tolerated because it's better to leave them inconsistent than break outside references to them.
06:40<s4br3>I like the new color scheme!
06:40<tuhin>folder name should be changed to amd64-i386-netinst
06:40<SynrG>tuhin: clearly still not listening :)
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06:41<SynrG>if you have a complaint about not finding the folder, ask me about the web pages that point to them
06:41<SynrG>fixing directory names is the wrong approach.
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06:42<th>with any naming convention, i'm pretty you can always find someone who can't grasp the real meaning. so i think the current naming is the best since well... it works
06:42<tuhin> <this is more easy to understand
06:42<s4br3>SynrG: Give KDEs popularity I think any link could be better indicated. Now it is hidden under a pile of Gnome versions only
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06:44<babilen>SynrG: I would argue that the "Notes" section of should be included on as well. I'll talk to debian-www later and file a bug if they agree.
06:44<babilen>SynrG: An entry in the FAQ wouldn't hurt as well.
06:44<SynrG>s4br3: i've already noted this concern to the web team. thanks
06:46<SynrG>babilen: sure. the FAQ is in need, perhaps, of some more love
06:46<SynrG>i gave it a once-over wrt live stuff recently
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06:46<SynrG>but didn't give any consideration to standard installer, as that's somewhat outside of my realm
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06:47<tuhin> <<<this url is more self explaning i think, it says KDE with multi arch iso in the url itself
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06:47<tuhin>SynrG: what do u think abt the above folder scheme ? ^^^
06:48<babilen>SynrG: In a way I would even recommend to just have a single page that links to the images. And I like the more ...
06:48<s4br3>tuhin: that wont work w the LXDE which also includes other DE
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06:49<SynrG>tuhin: i'm not having this discussion. please.
06:49<tuhin>i didnt have any problem when i used this site
06:49<SynrG>tuhin: i gave my reasoning above. heed it.
06:49<babilen>tuhin: Users will certainly complain if they have to figure out the links manually. The problem is not (only) the URL naming scheme, but the way the images are linked. I agree though that the CD1 flavours should be visible more prominently.
06:50<tuhin>look at the link babilen ^^^^ that page links all the versions in 1 page
06:50<s4br3>SynrG: The link he gave is very clear
06:50<s4br3>SynrG: The link
06:52<tuhin>and maybe move the other less used versions like * armel * kfreebsd-i386* kfreebsd-amd64* ia64* mips* mipsel * powerpc* sparc,* s390,* source ,* multi-arch to another page
06:52<babilen>s4br3: I am sure the debian-www team would be happy if you come up with such a page for all the various images provided by Debian in terms of business,netinstall,netboot,cd*,dvd*,... all desktop flavours, architectures and firmware/no-firmware :)
06:52<tuhin>this will make debian site more newuser friendly
06:53<s4br3>babilen: Yes, Permutation Hell is notorious
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06:55<s4br3>Im having issues w my Firewire device since a few weeks back when I noticed that a kernel upgrade last year made some things incompatible. Is there anyone here familiar how to activate IEE1394 support in the newer kernels?
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06:56<s4br3>th: The requested URL /debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-cd/debian-6.0.0-amd64-CD-1.iso was not found on this server.
06:56<SynrG>th: a page full of broken links
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06:57<s4br3>th:But the layout is clean
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06:57<SynrG>i agree the layout is clean, but it solves the "permutation hell" by saying "there are no permutations you need to care about"
06:58<SynrG>that's hardly a solution :)
06:58<tuhin>SynrG: debian can have a page like this
06:58<SynrG>since people here complained "my specific permutation was hard to find"
06:58<s4br3>Using filter as they do on
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07:00<SynrG>in any case, yes, thanks for the suggestions. i have digested a number of them and directed them to the web team. also, if you want more than just casual chat about it on irc, i refer again to the pseudopackage via reportbug for submitting your wishlists.\
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07:01<s4br3>SynrG: thanks for listening!
07:02<SynrG>no problem
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07:04<SynrG>one final thing. the URL scheme thing that i refused to address is not the responsibility of the web team per se
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07:05<SynrG>there is a separate psuedopackage for that: it is looked after by the debian-cd team.
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07:06<SynrG>you might look over first to see if there are any existing bugs related to the changes you want to see happen before filing anything about that
07:06<s4br3>SynrG: You should have an online conference about the consistency of directory of naming and the web interfaces linking into them. Yes, easier said than done...
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07:09<SynrG>the web team is on good relations with the CD team. if we think a URL renaming is necessary, we can certainly make that request. i stand by my earlier assertion that the focus *must* be the web site first, though. the URLs are incidental. we should not expect users to navigate through directories full of images more than one level deep to find things, so those names should never be an issue, given sufficiently good web page indices.
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07:09<s4br3>SynrG: Lynx users?
07:09<SynrG>this is not to excuse inconsistencies, and i certainly agree more consistency would be better, but you do need to talk to the right people to get it fixed
07:10<SynrG>i fail to see how lynx vs. any other browser makes the web site any less important
07:10<SynrG>given that the web site has been deliberately designed to be as accessible as possible
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07:10<XeonBloomfield>I think that "links" is better than "lynx"
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07:11<XeonBloomfield>links has download manager, and support much more than lynx on websites
07:11<s4br3>SynrG: True. Wonder how many possible input categories there are in the Permutation Hell? More than ten?
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07:11<s4br3>entry categories
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07:12<SynrG>we've already discussed low visibility of KDE, for instance. that should be addressed in web site changes.
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07:12<SynrG>once it is, it will be easier for "typical" users to reduce their "click path" length to get there.
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07:13<SynrG>it may be that for some less-popular choices, the click path would be increased by one, or at most, two
07:13<s_i_m>excuse me for my ignorance, but what is that permutation hell you are talking about?
07:13<s4br3>Name (Squeez), Desktop (KDE), Stability (testing), Platform(amd64), method(netinst)... What else?
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07:13<SynrG>s_i_m: kinds of debian CD (live, full, netinst) x architectures x ... etc. etc.
07:14<SynrG>including flavour of desktop
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07:14<SynrG>you rapidly end up with more choices than the poor average user can deal with
07:14<s4br3>But it is a finite list
07:14<SynrG>hence the simplified "Getting Debian" page, which is a good start, but apparently misses some areas users would like to see given higher profile.
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07:17<s_i_m>well, that is true
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07:20<s_i_m>btw, SynrG, that page in the section "Download large installation images" links to CDs. Why not to DVDs?
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07:22<SynrG>s_i_m: the direct links from that page are intended to be for "typical" use
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07:22<s_i_m>is not DVD now more typical than CD?
07:22<SynrG>two clicks from there to links to both CDs and DVDs
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07:23<SynrG>whether or not it is, bandwidth is still not that plentiful for most people in the world
07:23<SynrG>so fetching CD-1 is often what people do
07:23<SynrG>then anything else they need, they get by network updating
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07:24<s4br3>SynrG: is that based on download statistics?
07:24<SynrG>as CD-sized images can still be burnt to disc
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07:25<s4br3>SynrG: Mozilla uses identification of your platform
07:25<SynrG>valid point. if you think download statistics should be used to reshape the options on those pages, please include that in your wishlist
07:26<SynrG>i'm tiring of the discussion. it would be more productive to go file wishlists now :)
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08:02<angasule> ( ) has been unavailable most of the time the last couple of days, anyone know what's up?
08:02<s4br3>its down?
08:03<s4br3>Works for me
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08:03<angasule>s4br3: what does it resolve to for you?
08:04<angasule>s4br3: I'm not sure if I'm getting the wrong IP, or if I'm getting a correct IP that belongs to a server that's down
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08:08<babilen>angasule: You can always use a specific mirror in your sources.list
08:08<angasule>I know, but it would be nice to know why it's failing
08:10<babilen> seems to have problems
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08:12<tuhin>how much space debian install will take in hdd?
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08:13<tuhin>deciding which hdd to install debian in
08:13<angasule>tuhin: what's the size of the smallest one?
08:13<tuhin>40gb partitioned
08:13<tuhin>multiboot with other linux
08:14<abrotman>tuhin: without X, etc .. maybe 500MB ..
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08:14<tuhin>i mean full cd install
08:14<angasule>40GB is plenty
08:14<tuhin>with gui and all basic appps
08:14<tuhin>how about 10 GB?
08:15<tuhin>want to install other linux in same hdd
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08:15<tuhin>trying different distros to see which i like the most
08:16<angasule>tuhin: 10GB should be enough, but don't be surprised if you end up being short on space if you use it as a desktop
08:17<cahoot>unless he chooses both gnome and kde 10GB seems plenty
08:17<tuhin>i like lxde and gnome
08:17<babilen>AFAIR tuhin wanted to install LXDE
08:18<tuhin>might install gnome later
08:19<tuhin>so how much space debian takes on hdd after cd1 install?
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08:19<tuhin>mint10 took 2.6GB on install
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08:19<cahoot>all depends on what you choose
08:20<tuhin>debian will ask me during install to choose packages?
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08:24<babilen>tuhin: You can choose the install "tasks" -- You probably want the "Desktop" task and some others (standard, maybe laptop, who knows?) -- I don't have any numbers about their size ready though.
08:25<tuhin>if i select desktop for installign in laptop what will hapen
08:25<tuhin>desktop= full install right?
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08:27<babilen>tuhin: yep
08:28<babilen>tuhin: or rather: Select all tasks == full install -- but I doubt that you need to install a database server or a DNS
08:28<babilen>or want to
08:28<tuhin>hmm right
08:29<tuhin>those comes with cd1 ???
08:29<tuhin>only want all that cd1/live cd contains
08:30<babilen>tuhin: Just install standard+desktop + laptopt (if applicable) and you should be fine
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09:05<XeonBloomfield>Welcome next time
09:05<XeonBloomfield>Is someone know C++ or C ?
09:05<XeonBloomfield>Does someone know*
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09:06<babilen>XeonBloomfield: C or C++ and why don't you ask in ##c on or is this somehow related to Debian?
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09:07<XeonBloomfield>Probably should I ask at that channel what you said
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09:07<XeonBloomfield>I going to catch key pressed on keyboard without hitting ENTER
09:08<XeonBloomfield>I pretty up sure that it can be done with "curses.h"
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09:13<cthuluh>XeonBloomfield: tcsetattr() from termios.h
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09:14<tuhin>hi SynrG i m here now
09:14<XeonBloomfield>cthuluh: bwm-ng and probably htop are using "getch()" from "curses.h"
09:14<XeonBloomfield>cthuluh: It is really simple to use it
09:15<cthuluh>as simple as using curses? :)
09:15<cthuluh>tcsetattr is the most straightforward way if you don't need curses for something else in your app
09:16<SynrG>tuhin: ok, so ...
09:16<SynrG>10:15 < SynrG> for a multi-iso USB key? dunno. you could start with that question on #debian? "how do i make a
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09:16<SynrG> usb key that can boot multiple ISOs, including debian-live and some non-debian ISOs using only
09:16<SynrG> debian?"
09:16<SynrG>oops. a bit long to paste ;)
09:16<SynrG>10:15 < SynrG> or some such
09:16<ne7work>how can I check video card temp?
09:16<cthuluh>anyway, this is not debian-related, ask ##posix or ##c on
09:16<SynrG>tuhin asks this on #debian-live. i don't know the answer so i'm redirecting it here.
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09:17<ompaul>SynrG: some guys I know have done it, they use grub to sort it out, with multiple partitions
09:17<babilen>!usb install
09:17<dpkg>You can install Debian from a USB stick/thumbdrive/pen drive/key on x86 systems, as long as your system's BIOS can boot from USB. Details are in the Installation Guide, see and ask me about <install debian> for hybrid CD/DVD images. to prepare from Windows. BIOS can't boot from USB? Use
09:17<XeonBloomfield>cthuluh: I'm doing simple server on threads and I want to catch "q" key to stop connection searching thread
09:17<ompaul>SynrG: that is all I know about it
09:17<babilen>"The flexible way + different isos"
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09:18<babilen>tuhin: I am sure you can use grub instead of syslinux -- haven't done it though.
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09:19<tuhin>the usb already have grub4dos+syslinux+isolinux it seems
09:19<SynrG>ompaul, babilen: either of you know how well it goes to use grub to boot an iso?
09:19<SynrG>i mean, grub not installed in the iso ...
09:20<ompaul>SynrG: no, I'll try and get someone on the phone
09:20<tuhin>evthing was workign fine till i used unetbootin to install debian live in it alongside otehr live linux isos
09:20<SynrG>but grub installed on the boot sector of the usb key, then multiple partitions containing ISOs
09:20<SynrG>tuhin: yes, unetbootin is good at what it does, but it's not "magic" :)
09:20<babilen>SynrG: We had some people in here who managed to get it to work. Install grub to the USB mbr and have multiple partitions on the stick. I have not done this myself though
09:20<SynrG>i find for sufficiently complex things, unetbootin users can quite easily shoot themselves in the foot
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09:21<SynrG>babilen: yeah. would like to see some debian doc on this. maybe something in the wiki for now
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09:21<SynrG>it's a use case that's quite interesting but debian-live project has not devoted any resources to
09:21<SynrG>as it's off-focus for us
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09:22<sanix>Добрый день, тут есть Русские пользователи?
09:22<dpkg>Russian speakers, please use (Pogalujsta, zajdite na) (Pazhaluista, zahodite na) #debian-russian @ or use English here.
09:22<SynrG>when tuhin came over to #debian-live for help, seems he was all over the map trying different tools from different places (mint, pendrivelinux on XP, etc.)
09:22<SynrG>which speaks of a lack somewhere in our doc, i think, for this obviously useful thing.
09:23<babilen>SynrG: Agreed
09:23<SynrG>i believe the tools are all there (in debian). just a matter of putting it all together.
09:23<ompaul>SynrG: the boot loader is not the problem --- it is the files they share that makes it "interesting"
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09:24<ompaul>SynrG: so the real is, it depends and we don't have a chart there is some project out there - he's gone looking for it
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09:24<SynrG>since debian development tends to be, well, highly debian-centric, and "multiple distributions on one USB stick" is at first blush a non-debian problem, it's not a surprise nobody has solved it
09:24<ompaul>s/real /real answer /
09:24<ompaul>tuhin: hope you are following this ;-)
09:25<sanix>Who use Cranchbang, what can you say about it?
09:25<tuhin>SynrG: there was knoppix installed in that same usb drive
09:25<dpkg>CrunchBang Linux is a Live CD distribution originally based on <Ubuntu>, now based on Debian as of version 10, featuring the <Openbox> window manager. It is not supported in #debian. #crunchbang on See <based on Debian>.
09:25<tuhin>knoppix is debian
09:25<SynrG>tuhin: wrong
09:25<dpkg>Knoppix is _not_ Debian. Seek Knoppix help in freenode's #knoppix. Knoppix is a live CD distribution which is <based on Debian>, useful as a rescue CD, to test hardware, and for situations where you have access to a computer but it isn't Debian. unofficial: <Debian-live> is the Debian equivalent for publishing live systems.
09:26<ompaul>sanix: tuhin both of those projects are not debian so you can't get support for them here tbh
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09:26<sanix>yes thak you ^)
09:26<tuhin>u guys were telling why work on non debian based linux
09:27<tuhin>so i said there was a debain variant in the usb
09:27<sanix>but Crunch is Debian too
09:27<ompaul>tuhin: not exactly what you want but it is kind of the same thing
09:27<sanix>it use Debias repos
09:27<SynrG>so? debian-based does not imply anything at all about debian. afaik knoppix has its own private toolchain for mastering live images.
09:27<ompaul>and there I'll leave that
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09:27<SynrG>so your assertion "knoppix is debian" is not only flat-out wrong, but not a helpful comparison for solving this problem.
09:28<tuhin>ok maybe i can expect debian developers to include 1 thing, that, whats the menu.lst boot entry should be for debian ive?
09:28<ompaul>SynrG: that is one story, but it comes down to what can be shared :)
09:28<abrotman>still using grub1 ?
09:29<tuhin>i think
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09:29<SynrG>tuhin: actually, i didn't say you could expect debian developers to do any such thing. i said the tools are all there and probably it's a small matter of some motivated user figuring it out and posting results, possibly in the wiki ...
09:29<SynrG>this is a user problem, not a debian development problem, since no code needs to be written
09:30<SynrG>and yes, what ompaul said :)
09:30<sanix>What is the beter Ubuntu or Debian&
09:30<SynrG>we are not going to document anything other than a solution purely based on debian tools.
09:30<SynrG>(though there's nothing that says those tools can't be used to add *other* images to the same USB key)
09:30<abrotman>sanix: you're in #debian, how do you think we'll answer?
09:31<sanix>but I need arguments ^)
09:31<abrotman>!why debian
09:31<dpkg>Debian strives to maintain your freedom whilst also paying close attention to the technical aspects of making a great OS. Debian is stable, upgradable and well tested. See also (archived at . As an added bonus, you get to ask questions in #debian.
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09:38<ompaul>abrotman: I got a good answer for that :)
09:38<ompaul>sanix: why new improved debian of course, it is scheduled to be released when it's ready ;-)
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10:07<simon_>hey, last week I upgraded to squeeze with grub2 on top of grup-legacy.
10:08<simon_>just now I've upgraded completely with "upgrade-from-grub-legacy"
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10:09<simon_>then I got a warning
10:09<simon_>grub-setup: warn: Attempting to install GRUB to a partition instead of the MBR. This is a BAD idea.
10:09<simon_>grub-setup: warn: Embedding is not possible. GRUB can only be installed in this setup by using blocklists. However, blocklists are UNRELIABLE and its use is discouraged.
10:09<simon_>I chose my boot partition during the setup
10:09<simon_>can I safely reboot?
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10:23<abrotman>simon_: you probably want to dpkg-reconfigure grub-pc .. make sure oyu're installing to your mbr .. not a partition
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10:23<abrotman>or is that grub-common ...
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10:30<simon_>I run dpkg-reconf grub-pc. same result. Where do I chose to install it into MBR?
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10:33<cannesahs>I ended to return back grub-legacy as I know how it work, so I can do things by hands
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10:35<simon_>anyone with a successful switch to grub2 ?
10:39<abrotman>i have
10:39<abrotman>simon_: when it asks you where to install it, what did you choose?
10:40<simon_>my boot partition /dev/sda2 it is.
10:40<abrotman>that's not where your MBR is
10:41<simon_>where is my mbr?
10:41<simon_>I thought it is the partition that has the boot flag?
10:42<lee-0>what are those boot flags for, btw?
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10:44<cannesahs>run grub and input lines: root (hd0,2), setup (hd0), quit
10:45<cannesahs>if it gives error after root (..) command, then stop :)
10:45<cannesahs>but I have no idea how those all nice config and scripts should work..
10:46<cannesahs>MBR is master boot record of whole hard disk, not individual partition
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10:46<abrotman>why? reconfiguring the package correctly should fix his problem
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10:47<cannesahs>should :P I found grub2 pakacing be so broken that I didn't even try it after noticing too much bug reports about same kind of problems :P
10:47<abrotman>i've used it on dozens of machines .. haven't had a problem yet
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10:49<cahoot>cannesahs: here's a promising link:
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10:51<srtu>hi, maybe i am to stupid for using , but is there the non-free repo's included or not?
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10:57<simon_>did anyone answer on my last post? I lost the connection, sorry...
10:57<hp_>I have to go turkey language how can I?
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10:58<pfizur>simon_: (10:41:46 AM) abrotman: /dev/sda
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11:04<lee-0>hp_: update-locale
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11:11<june>e i
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11:17<mekt>What works to suspend to ram from the command line as a users, rather than root, from the command line? I've tried various programs. The ones which ran wanted to be run as root. Setting the program or script as SUID root did not suffice.
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11:18<Scholle>nette damen hier ?
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11:28<babilen>ugarich: Hi :)
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11:29<ugarich>I am sorry, but i bad speak english. Who speak rus lang?
11:29<dpkg>Russian speakers, please use (Pogalujsta, zajdite na) (Pazhaluista, zahodite na) #debian-russian @ or use English here.
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11:39<kuxuanfeixue>what is that
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12:08<Merovingien>Cлушайте, а тут разговаривают ?
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12:17<cannesahs>abrotman, I tried to use it with raid + not default kernel or initrd
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12:17<abrotman>sounds like you messed it up .. not that it's broken
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12:18<cannesahs>tbh. I hadn't enough time to find out. It was non-critical server downtime :)
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12:30<dpkg>Russian speakers, please use (Pogalujsta, zajdite na) (Pazhaluista, zahodite na) #debian-russian @ or use English here.
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12:36<cannesahs>but I guess I found something similars like #593648 #535239 #601359 #611537... and then looked enough bugs with lvm or raid1 or upgrade in name and decided not to use time to study it now
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12:53<schichtleiter>Hi, why is the monthly mdadm autocheck generating an error message even if everything is finde? It even runs PROGRAM in mdadm.conf, so i get a push message to my phone... It is very annoying :(
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12:54<jhutchins_lt>schichtleiter: Got backups?
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12:55<schichtleiter>I see where this is going to - if the data is backed up, disable Autocheck :) But I dont think one should need such an ugly workaround
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13:00<Dominus>how do i find out if my system is i386 or amd64?
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13:00<babilen>Dominus: "dpkg --print-architecture"
13:01<ompaul>Dominus: read the output of "uname -a" (mine is shorter ;-))
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13:01<babilen>ompaul: What about an amd64 kernel with i386 userland? :-þ
13:01<Dominus>ompaul: Yeah, but babilens worked the best :P
13:01<ompaul>babilen: does that check regardless of what you are running which chip is there or would proc cpuinfo
13:02<schichtleiter>Anyone got an idea about the mdadm "error"-msg? I could rewrite my script that program launches to ignore errors on the first sunday of each month, but come on... There must be a better solution
13:02<babilen>ompaul: It prints the installed architecture. It does not check what capabilities the chip has. "grep -w lm /proc/cpuinfo" is another check, but that is about the system itself not the Debian installation.
13:03<ompaul>babilen: aye
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13:05<cannesahs>schichtleiter: what kind of "error"message?
13:05<schichtleiter>checkarray: I: selecting idle I/O scheduling class for resync of md0.
13:05<schichtleiter>checkarray: I: selecting idle I/O scheduling class for resync of md1.
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13:06<cannesahs>aa that. hmm. I got it first time last week too. lenny one didn't give info about ionice change
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13:07<schichtleiter>i get this as a mail every month, when the autocheck is triggered. Furthermore, the PROGRAM in mdadm.conf is launched - probably i will really have to rewrite that script
13:09<cannesahs>oh, it is still sunday, this week I mean. I guess if you remove --idle command line parameter from cron.d/mdadm, you will get really quick workaround, but not fix actual problem
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13:13<cannesahs>actually, write bug report to mdadm package, I think there should be "[ $quiet -lt 1 ] &&" at start of line 196 in checkarray script.
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13:14<schichtleiter>well, --idle basically selects the lowest priority for the check, right? I would actually prefer a faster check, since nobody is using the system in the middle of the night anyways
13:15<schichtleiter>so i could just remove it and it would be fine? I will write a bug report, though
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13:15<cannesahs>'/usr/shared/mdadm/arraycheck --help'
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13:16<cannesahs>checkarray.. not arraycheck.. poor fingers copypaste
13:16<schichtleiter>i will look into it, thanks
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13:18<cannesahs>and I think idle is as fast as possible when there is no others using disk io
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13:26<schichtleiter>cannesahs: apparently, they wont fix this :(
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13:28<cannesahs>schichtleiter: that is totally different error message. that is real error message. our "error"message is in real just information message
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13:29<cannesahs>as our says 'checkarray: I:' and in that bug report 'checkarray: E:'
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13:40<jhutchins_lt>schichtleiter: What I meant by my earlier comment is that you should make sure you have good backups, preferably from before the errors started showing up.
13:40<jhutchins_lt>schichtleiter: Until you KNOW why you're seeing the errors, you should assume that it's at least possible there's a real problem with the array.
13:40<jhutchins_lt>schichtleiter: Lots of people think they don't need backups if they have raid.
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13:57<stderr_dk>Is there a limit on how many dirs you can have in an ext3 filesystem?
13:57<mjr>yes to both what you asked and to what you might've meant instead
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13:58<stderr_dk>What did I mean? :-)
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13:58<mjr>possibly sub-directories per directory
13:59<mjr>the limit for which is 31998
13:59<stderr_dk>It's just odd to have a partition with 69G free and getting an error message from fsck.ext3 saying it can't create lost+found...
13:59<abrotman>stderr_dk: dh -i ?
13:59<mjr>on the whole there's the inode limit which is set upon creation
13:59<stderr_dk>I'm pretty sure the root dir on that partition doesn't have 31998 entries.
13:59<abrotman>sorry .. yes .. df -i :)
14:00<stderr_dk>I'll tell you as soon as fsck is done...
14:00<abrotman>cahoot: thanks
14:00*abrotman blames the fishbowl effect
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14:02<stderr_dk>/dev/sda1 14647296 14647296 0 100% /media/sda1
14:02<ompaul>how did you use that many inodes
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14:03<stderr_dk>Not how did "I" use that many inodes... How did the idiot who had the disk before me used that many inodes...
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14:03<stderr_dk>And that's a very good question...
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14:03<ompaul>stderr_dk: an infinite amount of log files for a finite amount of jobs
14:04<stderr_dk>Well, he didn't used them doing his job, as far as I can tell...
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14:07<abrotman>that's "impressive"
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14:09<mcfletch>Question regarding packaging: have a package on a custom debian/ubuntu-based distro (dnsmasq) which hangs on "stop" if syslog is down (because it's also being upgraded), dnsmasq then fails to restart and the upgrade bombs (this is in an unattended scenario)).
14:09<mcfletch>Is there a standard way to declare in packages that package X must be fully configured *for the current version* before installing package Y (i.e. restarted fully, not just "have been configured at some point in the past, as in Pre-Depends)
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14:11<abrotman>This channel is for Debian support
14:11<cjac>is there a way to get the mapping from iscsi target name to device name?
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14:12<Black_Prince>pre-depends ?
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14:12<cjac>block device name, that is
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14:16<mcfletch>abrotman: sorry about that, would you be able to direct me to the appropriate channel?
14:17<abrotman>nope, i can only suggest you read the Debian packaging manual .. which may or may not help you .. i don't know much about this custom distro ... good luck
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14:18<mcfletch>abrotman: sigh, thanks, have read it a dozen times. I'll have to ask our resident guru where the channel is that he uses, as debian's web-site doesn't seem to mention it.
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14:19<imperium>(re-asking) hi, im running wheezy. i include squeeze repo on sources.list. my question is why do i have to full download squeeze packages files (not .diff files) everytime i run apt-get update?
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14:20<abrotman>did you set your pdiff option to false?
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14:21<imperium>no i guess.
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14:22<imperium>where do i check that option?
14:22<abrotman>in your apt.conf if you have one
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14:23<imperium>no, only 'APT::Default-Release "wheezy";' on my apt.conf
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14:24<abrotman>though .. also, why do you have squeeze repos with your wheezy repos ?
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14:26<cannesahs>why not? I taking some parts from stable is not unordinary when running mainly testing (or unstable)
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14:27<imperium>i pin some packages on squeeze
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14:51<Guest396>hey, short question: I just wrote my first start up script in /etc/init.d/... My script activates the numlock on the keyboard with setleds (see man setleds). Can someone explain me, why this script has to be killed when shutting down? I mean, it is not a process that is running all the time, but only a command that needs to be executed once...
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14:52<kenyon>Guest396: it doesn't have to be killed. just have the stop action do nothing.
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14:52<Guest396>you mean for the default-stop runlevel give no runlevel? (now is 0,1,6
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14:54<kenyon>Guest396: well whatever stop runlevels you give it doesn't really matter if it doesn't have anything to do, right?
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14:54<Guest396>well, it should'nt run the command again when shutting down
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14:57<kenyon>Guest396: the init script should have different cases for starting, stopping, restarting, reloading
14:57<Guest396>well, the whole script is this: INITTY=/dev/tty[1-8]
14:57<Guest396> for tty in $INITTY; do
14:57<Guest396> setleds -D +num < $tty
14:57<Guest396> done
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14:58<Guest396>sorry, should have been a 1-liner
14:58<Guest396>so there is not so much to "stop"
14:58<kenyon>look at how other init.d scripts are written
15:00<Guest396>mmh, others have no default-stop runlevel. thanks!
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15:01<sney>if you just want a single command to run on boot, you can put it in /etc/rc.local and not worry about writing a whole initscript
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15:09<home>yo i have a question
15:09<home>its about skype
15:09<dpkg>Skype is a proprietary cross-platform <VoIP> program which Debian cannot distribute due to its restrictive license. Packages are available from or use the sources.list line "deb stable non-free". Not supported in #debian, consider using <ekiga>, <linphone> or <pidgin> instead.
15:10<home>i have a queston
15:10<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
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15:11<home>I have a problem with skype. I am using Jolicloud. When I try to call someone they cannot hear me. I expect the other person to hear me
15:11<sney>home: you're doubly in the wrong place. jolicloud and skype are not supported here.
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15:12<priyesh>is there a program which monitors uptime of a server?
15:12<abrotman>priyesh: monitors for what?
15:12<sney>babilen: yet another ubuntoid for netbooks, with some kind of distributed backup
15:13<priyesh>if the server is up or not
15:15<babilen>priyesh: You might find something like Icinga useful (or complete overkill)
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15:29<nathan>Hi. I m using a Debian Lenny on a quite recent laptop. I got some troubles with the temperature of my proc. So my laptop is often shutting when i run some heavy proc app. Maybe it s an hardware issue but i m not sure of that, i got this laptop for 2 years and i clean my fans regularly... i think there is something wrong in my acpi configuration but i don't know why... Any idea?
15:29<dpkg>lm_sensors (Linux-monitoring sensors) is a hardware health monitoring package for CPU temperature, fan speed, etc. Packaged for Debian as lm-sensors. #linux-sensors on
15:30<ompaul>nathan: ^^ Note there are machines they don't work right with - better no info than bad info
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15:30<nathan>with - ?
15:34-!-Guest340 is now known as mentor
15:35<ompaul>nathan: lmsensors (I am in a few networks ... so I don't see questions that I am not here for unless it uses my nick)
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15:40<abrotman>nathan: why not squeeze?
15:40<nathan>abrotman, why squeeze?
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15:41<abrotman>squeeze is the current stable?
15:41<Groundy>is there a happy debian way to (daily) check to see if a package has a new version, download sources, apply a patch, compile it, and put the debs in a local repo?
15:42<Groundy>It would be nice to add it before my daily apt-get update in my crontab
15:42<nathan>abrotman, and it ll help me to solve my problem?
15:42<abrotman>it may, i can't say for sure
15:43<Groundy>I looked at buildd, but it looks more than what I need
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15:44<babilen>Groundy: it is just really confusing, especially when people on one network don't read what you've said on the other.
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15:45<Groundy>babilen: *nod* should keep the conversation in one place then :-P
15:45<nathan>So... after a sensors-detect, i got this : I ve automatically added this into the /etc/modules but now i m not sure to understand what i have to do...
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15:46<Black_Prince>nathan, run modprobe coretemp
15:46<Black_Prince>or invoke-rc.d module-init-tools restart
15:47<nathan>Black_Prince, ok it s done, and now? : D
15:47<nathan>setting the sensors.conf file?
15:47<Black_Prince>nathan, lm-sensors is ready for use, just type 'sensors'
15:47<Black_Prince>And use it for whatever you want
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15:48<nathan>Black_Prince, ok so i can see my current temperature is 76C...
15:48<nathan>not weird?
15:49<Black_Prince>Does it show what is the critical value?
15:49<nathan>Black_Prince, yeah, 85C
15:49<cannesahs>btw, is there any clean way to force sysv-rc/insserv recreate rc?.d/links ?
15:50<Black_Prince>It is a bit unusual, what are you running?
15:50<nathan>Black_Prince, quite nothing! just the xchat irc client, iceweasel and a shell...
15:51<Black_Prince>And does it show fan speed(s)?
15:51<nathan>Black_Prince, nop, it should?
15:51<Black_Prince>Well, mine says 'fan0 0RPM' ...
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15:52<nathan>Black_Prince, here is the whole return of the sensors command
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15:53<Black_Prince>You use an older PC/Laptop?
15:53<nathan>Black_Prince, not at all, i use a recent hp laptop
15:53<Black_Prince>Even my old fujitsu siemens PIII shows more info
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15:54<Black_Prince>Ah, that is the problem ... It sure need the newer or updated driver that is not in squeeze's kernel
15:54<Black_Prince>look at my output
15:55<nathan>Black_Prince, WOW, so i need to update something? : / i m using lenny
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15:55<cannesahs>nathan, can you specify better your laptop
15:55<Black_Prince>Hell ... It's too old
15:56<Black_Prince>Upgrade to squeeze asap ... If you are using new hardware
15:56<Black_Prince>!tell nathan about lenny->squeeze
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15:56<nathan>cannesahs, i m using a hp laptop dv5-1123ef
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15:57<q8>were is the arab
15:57<cannesahs>not funny to upgrade if laptop does powercut during upgrade
15:57<nathan>cannesahs, yeah!! : DD
15:57<nathan>i can just make a live cd no?
15:57<nathan>it s maybe safer
15:57<babilen>nathan: If this is a very new install it might be easier to just install squeeze from scratch
15:58<q8>from kuwait
15:58<q8>and you?
15:58<dpkg>it has been said that arabic is Linux supports the Arabic language. See For help with debian in Arabic, ask in #debian-lb on (and be patient! it's a small community)
15:58<q8>arabic is good people
15:58<Black_Prince>You want live cd?
15:58<Black_Prince>!tell nathan about live
15:58<nathan>Black_Prince, i don't know but as said babilen
15:58<q8>i install
15:58<q8>back track
15:59<nathan>i ll maybe install from scratch
15:59<q8>with my laptop
15:59<babilen>q8: This is not a chat channel -- You might want to hang out in #moocows with /join #moocows -- Do you have a Debian related question?
15:59-!-floe [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:59<q8>? are you arab
15:59<nathan>But i have a question, i ve tried a lot of linux distrib, it may affect my laptop performance?
16:00<nathan>i mean, there is chance that my issue is a physical issue?
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16:00<babilen>q8: Stop it please. This is not a chat channel. Do you have a Debian related question?
16:01<q8>plaece why do you becerfull me
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16:01*babilen swings the mighty troll blade of BECERFULL!
16:02<nathan>or a just a driver one...
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16:04<nathan>so the current stable release of debian is 6.0?
16:04<cannesahs>6.0.1 (or 6.0.1a ?)
16:05<nathan>cannesahs, 6.0.1a i think...
16:05<viper3k>hi .. I've been googling but can't really find a useful page about it .. I want to build an X server on a system with no graphic card ... so it only serves as an x server for remote x-clients .. does anybody know a good help page or any advice to start with ??
16:05<nathan>called squeeze, that's it?
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16:06<cannesahs>nathan: yes.
16:06<nathan>cannesahs, and maybe you can answer my previous question : D do you think it could be a physical related problem?
16:06<nathan>or just issue about too old drivers?
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16:08<cannesahs>have you looked if bios have some hwmonitor buildin to show temperatures? laptops have sometimes, pcs nowadays always.
16:09<cannesahs>and I wouldn't exclude physical problem.
16:10<nathan>cannesahs, i can show my temperature via the sensors command
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16:11<nathan>anyway i ll try squeeze and see if it solves something
16:12<nathan>does the Broadcom Corporation BCM4312 802.11b/g (rev 01) is now natively supported?
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16:13<XeonBloomfield>nathan: Check ""
16:13<XeonBloomfield>"This page describes how to enable support for WiFi devices based on Broadcom 4301, 4303, 4306, 4309, 4311, 4312, 4318 and 4320 chipsets on Debian systems."
16:13<XeonBloomfield>nathan: "Introduced in Linux 2.6.24."
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16:14<XeonBloomfield>nathan: It means that it is supported native by driver "b43" included in kernel
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16:15<nathan>XeonBloomfield, cool : D, thanks
16:15-!-Abr1l [] has quit []
16:15<XeonBloomfield>nathan: "Supports the BCM4312 low-power chipset as of Linux 2.6.32."
16:15<XeonBloomfield>nathan: Squeeze has Linux 2.6.32 ;)
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16:15<nathan>XeonBloomfield, i ll definitively switch into squeeze ^^
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16:17<XeonBloomfield>nathan: You should ;) I'm using it since official release day (06.02.2011) and I'm happy like someone who won 1 milion $ ;)
16:18<nathan>XeonBloomfield, i ll be happy like someone who won 1 million when my temp issue ll be fixed : D
16:18<XeonBloomfield>What issue?
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16:18<nathan>XeonBloomfield, my laptop temp is too high
16:18<linuxuz3r>can i see the default wallpaper for squeeze
16:19<nathan>even when there is no heavy proc running
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16:19<XeonBloomfield>Are you using any Linux now on it?
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16:19<lee_>nathan, why would changing the software fix your temperature problem?
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16:20<XeonBloomfield>lee_: I thought the same
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16:20<nathan>lee_ i don't know...
16:21<nathan>lee_ i m just trying to find something to fix overheating
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16:21<lee_>better cooling might fix that ...
16:21<XeonBloomfield>nathan: Did you do something with cooling system in your notebook?
16:22<nathan>XeonBloomfield, something like what?
16:22-!-zigo [~quassel@] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
16:22<XeonBloomfield>lee_: Exactly
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16:22<nathan>XeonBloomfield, how can i set my cooling process?
16:22<XeonBloomfield>nathan: Em... Disabled it or made coolers to rounds slower?
16:23<nathan>XeonBloomfield, Disabled the cooler process? : O
16:23<XeonBloomfield>nathan: It is controlled by BIOS
16:23<XeonBloomfield>nathan: You probably didn't do that :P
16:23<nathan>XeonBloomfield, no
16:24<nathan>i have to set it in bios
16:24<nathan>that s it?
16:24<XeonBloomfield>nathan: Or... Did you disabled BIOS? (of course it is joke)
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16:24<nathan>: DD
16:24<XeonBloomfield>nathan: Enter to BIOS settings and set coolers to rotate faster or something like that
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16:25<lee_>you´re still with software then
16:25<nathan>ok i ll try this
16:25<XeonBloomfield>lee_: He could made coolers rotating slower...
16:25<lee_>yes, he might have
16:26<lee_>nonetheless BIOS is software
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16:29<XeonBloomfield>lee_: Of course it is
16:30<XeonBloomfield>lee_: Did you see BIOS crash? :P
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16:31<nathan>XeonBloomfield, hum
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16:31<XeonBloomfield>nathan: Any difference?
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16:31<XeonBloomfield>nathan: Did you find options of cooling?
16:31<nathan>so, the two things i was able to set is : fan always running
16:31<nathan>i set it on "no"
16:32<nathan>and the others thing was : proc C6 waking
16:32<nathan>i set it on "activate"
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16:32<nathan>i didn't think anything about cooling...
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16:33<XeonBloomfield>nathan: "fan always running" means that if it not necessary to has running coolers notebook will turn them down.
16:33<XeonBloomfield>nathan: Of course when you set it to "no"
16:33<cannesahs>C6 active is cood thing.
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16:35<nathan>XeonBloomfield, is a bad thing to set it on no?
16:36<cannesahs>if it turned already on, then imo no
16:36<XeonBloomfield>nathan: No... It will be automatically disabled when it will be not needed
16:36<XeonBloomfield>nathan: But you have problems with cooling... so... better to have it working
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16:37<nathan>XeonBloomfield, yeah, anyway they re running
16:37<nathan>i m currently at 77C
16:37<XeonBloomfield>oh my...
16:37<nathan>and doing nothing
16:37<XeonBloomfield>When my processor was overclocked from 2.66 GHz to 3.20 GHz it had up to 80 degrees
16:38<XeonBloomfield>While load was full
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16:38<XeonBloomfield>Anyone remember! Overclocking is bad!
16:38<nathan>I don't know what to do...
16:38<XeonBloomfield>4 times my BIOS was frozen
16:38<nathan>how can i set cooling if it s not in bios?
16:39-!-mase_ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:39<XeonBloomfield>2 times I had crash while I was working on system
16:39<XeonBloomfield>I will say it next time... Overclocking is bad!
16:39<XeonBloomfield>Never overclock something what you want to be stable...
16:40<XeonBloomfield>nathan: Do you hear cooler?
16:41<nathan>XeonBloomfield, hooo YEAH!!!
16:42<XeonBloomfield>nathan: It is bad for your hardware
16:42<XeonBloomfield>nathan: But you probably know that
16:42<nathan>XeonBloomfield, yes... but what can i do?
16:43<XeonBloomfield>nathan: Can you write here model of your notebook?
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16:44<nathan>from hp
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16:44<cannesahs>try running without X and see if it goes to lower (if it is in real gpu beeing too hot and heating also cpu)
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16:47<nathan>i m back from consol ! : D
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16:47<XeonBloomfield>cannesahs: Hmm... It is really possible, because parts are near others
16:47<XeonBloomfield>nathan: and?
16:47<XeonBloomfield>nathan: Any difference?
16:47<nathan>XeonBloomfield: my fan run slower i think
16:47<cannesahs>xeonbloomfield: or they are using same coolingdevice and connected together thermally
16:48<nathan>i ll wait and see if the temp decrease
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16:48<XeonBloomfield>nathan: now you are "sensors" spamer ;P
16:48<nathan>XeonBloomfield: yeah <<
16:48<lee_>did you verify that the temperature goes higher when the computer is actually doing something?
16:48<XeonBloomfield>cannesahs: Maybe it can be like you think
16:49<nathan>it s always around 76C...
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16:49<cannesahs>and did you check that cpu was doing nothing, not just you? :)
16:49<lee_>when it´s always at the same temp, you problem might not be temperature related at all
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16:50<nathan>lee_: any idea?
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16:51<cannesahs>not bad idea try let memtest86 run overnight
16:51<lee_>and does it also happen when it´s running on battery?
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16:51<XeonBloomfield>lee_: Memory sticks hot like hot-dog ;) Funny, but really possible...
16:51<XeonBloomfield>cannesahs: Good idea for him
16:52<nathan>cannesahs: it returns nothing
16:52<nathan>lee_: i ll try on batterie
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16:53<cannesahs>you can download memtest86 cd image and burn it and boot from it. or you can download debian package from debian repo and conf it to show in grub/lilo. and when booting choose it.
16:53<cannesahs>it is not run under linux (or other os)
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16:54<nathan>cannesahs: it ll tell me if i have memory issue?
16:55<nathan>ok so thanks all for your help but i ll have to go to work
16:55<nathan>i ll try this tomorrow
16:56<cannesahs>hope you find solution
16:56<nathan>cannesahs: yeah of course but when i ll find the solution, my laptop ll be totally on fire haha
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16:56<nathan>i really think my hardware are about to die...
16:56<cannesahs>well, new laptop is a solution :P
16:57<XeonBloomfield>cannesahs: Yeah...
16:57<nathan>anyway, bye, see you! : D
16:57<XeonBloomfield>nathan: Good bye
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16:57<XeonBloomfield>nathan: Goodbye*
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17:07<Morpheus>Salve a tutti
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17:08<babilen>Morpheus: Ciao (Note that this is an English channel)
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17:09<Morpheus>ok sorry ^^
17:10<wissem>hi all
17:10<Black_Prince>Morpheus, did you find the one ? :P
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17:10<wissem>anyone knows how to configure the system to not turn off wireless card on suspend mode on a acer laptop ?
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17:11<dpkg>acer_acpi is an out-of-tree Linux kernel module, providing the ability to control hardware on modern Acer laptops. Deprecated by acer-wmi ("Acer Laptop WMI Extras Driver", upstream driver port) in mainline as of Linux 2.6.25.
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17:13<Morpheus>can someone help me ... I created a derivative of Debian, but I can not rename it with the name and version of my distro. Someone how to do? PM Plees
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17:38<flaccid>default/native supported fs for root is ext3 in debian squeeze, not ext4 yet?
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17:41<petemc>flaccid: you can choose ext4
17:41<retrospectacus>ext4 on / is certainly supported, maybe not default
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17:46<rudi_s>Not default.
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17:48<flaccid>any reason why its not default? i'm making xen images and considering what it should be. xfs seemed to work good, although i'm going to go back to ext* to make it more native
17:49<flaccid>the boot partition is currently ext2 as i thought this would have the best compat with pv-grub
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17:49<rudi_s>I don't know, I guess because ext3 is stable.
17:50<rudi_s>Ah, wait.
17:50<dpkg>[ext4] The fourth extended file system. Supports volumes up to one exabyte (1024 petabytes) and extents. Merged in the mainline Linux kernel, available since version 2.6.28. Ask me about <ext3->ext4> and <ext4->ext3>. ext4 is not supported by GRUB Legacy (Debian bug #511121) and not the default in Squeeze (Debian bug #603084). #ext4 on
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17:51<Maulkin>ext4 is stable.
17:52<Maulkin>Will (probably) be default next release
17:53<flaccid>ok so no reason not to use it it seems
17:53<flaccid>i'll keep ext2 on da boot
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17:54<SynrG>not default due to not enough lead time testing it as the default prior to squeeze release i guess.
17:54<SynrG>(by the time someone asked "why not make it the default?" i mean)
17:56<esaym153>I just upgraded from squeeze to the current testing and now my knetwork manager doesn't work and suspend causes lock ups. Is there any quick way to revert back to squeeze?
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17:59<babilen>esaym153: reinstall?
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18:00<dpkg>[downgrade] Downgrading is not possible with apt-get/aptitude and no future support is anticipated. Some programs change the binary format of their files in a way that cannot be rolled back later, and package maintainer scripts provide ways to upgrade to new config file formats but not ways to downgrade. You can always try to downgrade a package using dpkg -i <olderversion.deb>. See also <partial downgrade>, <unstable->testing>, <sdo>.
18:00<babilen>esaym153: Alternatively: Try pinning squeeze to a priority >= 1001 -- If it breaks you are allowed to keep the pieces though. I would suggest creating good backups.
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18:06<esaym153>babilen: well I might have found a problem. Looks like I need to do a "full-upgrade"
18:07<babilen>esaym153: Most definitely -- It might be a good idea for you to use the stable release though
18:07<dpkg>Testing is a continuously updated release between <stable> and <unstable>, currently codenamed <wheezy>. See and ask me about <testing faq> <squeeze->wheezy> <testing security> <moving target> <dda> <apt-listchanges> and <bts>. You should have a sound knowledge of Debian packaging to use testing and should be prepared for a bumpy ride at times. Don't use it on things that are critical or on servers.
18:09<esaym153>babilen: I have used testing only for about 4 years now
18:09<babilen>esaym153: Ah, ok. Yeah, you definitely want "full-upgrade" to upgrade from squeeze to wheezy ...
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18:10<abrotman>someone running testing for four years should know that
18:10<lee_>are you saying you need to do a full-upgrade even when using testing?
18:10<esaym153>abrotman: yea I guess I have gotten rusty after 6 months of not upgrading lol
18:11<babilen>lee_: read "man aptitude" to understand the difference between "safe-upgrade" and "full-upgrade"
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18:12<lee_>Hm, I haven´t used any of those, just updated the package list and let it update as it wanted.
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18:13<lee_>Doesn´t that upgrade the packages to their "most recent version"?
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18:14<abrotman>lee_: don't you have packages that are held bcak?
18:14<babilen>lee_: Yes -- but they differ in that full-upgrade allows the removal of packages.
18:14<chealer>lee_: you do need to keep all packages updated
18:14<abrotman>dunno, need, but really really should
18:14<lee_>When there are packages held back, I allow them to be upgraded.
18:15<lee_>Sometimes packages are removed when no longer needed. So I don´t understand what the difference is.
18:15<lee_>I was always wondering why packages are being held back so that you need to allow them to be upgraded ...
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18:16<lee_>And there isn´t anything to upgrade when I run "aptitude full-upgrade".
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18:17<lee_>Not having to make the big leaps between releases which can break stuff is one of the reasons I´m using testing all the time.
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19:01<Ohms_1KW>hi all! :-)
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19:05<Ohms_1KW>Will I need to de-install/re-install the nVidia packages everytime I update to the latest Kernel!?
19:05-!-mode/#debian [-i] by debhelper
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19:05<cthuluh>if the kernel version changes then the answer is "yes, probably"
19:06<Ohms_1KW>I see... then it doesn't (nvidia) automatically do so?
19:07<cthuluh>the drivers for your graphic card should be updated at the same time, by dpkg
19:07<cthuluh>*if* you use the debian packages
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19:09<Ohms_1KW>Ok, thanks for the info! :-)
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19:10<nutterpc>if u have dkms packages
19:10<nutterpc>they auto update
19:10<nutterpc>like phc does for my system
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19:10<nutterpc>every time i install a new kernel build im working on, it uninstalls the old one and installs the new one automatically
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19:11<Ohms_1KW>dkms? I'm not sure... How do I go about finding this out?
19:12<Ohms_1KW>I see, to bad Ubuntu doesn't!! ;-) One up on Debian! :-)
19:13*nutterpc grins
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19:20<Ohms_1KW>Ok, according to Synaptic.. DKMS isn't install! Therefore when I install the dkms packages, do I also install the nvidia dkms that listed there?!
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19:27<sunny1985>I need some help with reference to backtrack
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19:28<babilen>!tell Ohms_1KW -about nvidia
19:28<sunny1985>any1 wanna help me?
19:28<babilen>!tell Ohms_1KW -about nvidia dkms
19:28<sunny1985>why do I see no wireless networks on wicd
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19:28<babilen>sunny1985: What is your problem? Note that you want #backtrack-linux on if you are using bt4
19:28<sunny1985>yes that is right
19:29<abrotman>so go there, not here
19:29<sunny1985>why do i see no wireless networks on wicd?
19:29<sunny1985>though I am connected to the net?
19:30<themill>sunny1985: you want to ask in #backtrack-linux on
19:30<abrotman>sunny1985: this channel is for Debian support, you want #backtrack-linux on .. You're offtopic in this channel
19:30<sunny1985>ok sorry about that
19:30<sunny1985>I am new so....
19:30<abrotman>so ... go to #backtrack-linux on
19:31<babilen>sunny1985: No problem "/connect" and "/join #backtrack-linux" should get you there. Keep it in mind for the future!
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19:31<sunny1985>ok thank you very much
19:32<Ohms_1KW>babilen: Thanks for the info! :-)
19:32<themill>sunny1985: once you've connected to freenode, you'll also need to "/msg nickserv help register"
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19:33<sunny1985>iam on #backtrack now but how do I chat with any1 there is no one on the list
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19:34<themill>sunny1985: wrong irc network and wrong channel name.
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---Logclosed Sun Apr 03 19:53:46 2011
---Logopened Sun Apr 03 19:53:57 2011
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19:53-!-Irssi: #debian: Total of 443 nicks [2 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 441 normal]
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20:17<IratePirate>Hello everyone, are there any existing speech recognition programs in linux similar to the one in windows? Basically I want to make a program, say dice, and be able to say diceroll 6, and it translates to a terminal command "./diceroll 6" and diceroll being a program I created
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20:18<flaccid>i'm getting Mounting local filesystems...[31mfailed.[39;49m in console output but its not showing in dmesg or /var/log/messages. how can i check whats happening here and what the problem might be?
20:18<babilen>,info sphinx2-bin
20:18<judd>Package sphinx2-bin (sound, optional) in squeeze/i386: speech recognition utilities. Version: 0.6-2.1; Size: 141.0k; Installed: 480k
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20:20<babilen>flaccid: CMU's finest -- see
20:20<babilen>IratePirate: ^^^^
20:21<babilen>flaccid: ENICK, sorry
20:21<cjac>any iSCSI gurus here? I'd like to find a mapping between target name and block device name. Is there an easy way to do this other than grepping through dmesg?
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20:22<IratePirate>excellent, now to find a tutorial lol
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20:24<flaccid>well far out nothing going on for nearly 2 years!
20:26<jhutchins_lt2>cjac: fdisk -l? mount?
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20:31<flaccid>maybe i should try in fstab: none /proc proc defaults,noauto,noproc 0 0
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20:32<flaccid>oops noproc is an option of mountall so just noauto should suffice. note: squeeze still adds the normal fstab entry
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20:34<cjac>jhutchins_lt2: those don't seem to give me the information
20:35<cjac>but it looks like ls -l /dev/disk/by-path/ip-*${target_name}* will do it
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20:39<flaccid>hmm /dev/shm / tmpfs - should be noauto as well?
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20:45<flaccid>this seems to be a very valid bug as fstab still does not set noauto on these
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23:14<bones_was_here_>hi, on a particular machine, aptitude regularly fails to handle package information properly, but how exactly i've not much clue, it produces no errors
23:14<bones_was_here_>when it happens, all installed packages become obsolete/locally created packages, and i can't install new packages
23:15<bones_was_here_>eg at the moment, aptitude says i have 1 installed, 1358 obsolete, 12 not installed
23:15<bones_was_here_>i have no such problems with another debian machine on the same network, using the same mirror in sources.list
23:16<sweetpi>did you "aptitude update"?
23:16<bones_was_here_>the problem changes if i change mirrors (eg a few packages will move from obsolete to installed) but i can't seem to fix it that way
23:16<bones_was_here_>yes, also tried the cache clearing options on the menu in the curses interface
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23:18<sweetpi>every time ive seen this is when changing sources.list and not updating, everything moves to obsolete
23:18<bones_was_here_>apt-get is also affected by whatever it is
23:18<bones_was_here_>well, it seems it can also happen in other circumstances...
23:19<rigved>hi everyone...i got this error when performing apt-get update: E: Method /usr/lib/apt/methods/ did not start correctly I found on a Debian forum post that volatile repo has been removed. is this correct. should i replace the volatile repo with this: deb squeeze-updates main contrib non-free
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23:22<Ham>rigved: I had the same thing when installed without a net connection at first. the sources.list line for volatile is broken, it's missing the http:// part?? try adding that or just remove the volatile line as it's replaced by -updates now.
23:22<Ham>Hi, looking for advice: Newly install squeeze; external usb backup drive in /mnt/usb_backup listed by UUID in fstab with noauto (in case it's not there). but the system boots too fast for its own good and fsck dies with "fsck.ext3: Unable to resolve 'UUID=...'" before the USB connection becomes ready a second or two later, and then the boot freezes with a "press Ctrl-D to continue", which is a problem when rebooted remotely. Any ideas?
23:22<sney>!tell rigved about squeeze volatile
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23:23<rigved>Ham, sney: thanks
23:23<Ham>rigved: I'm pretty sure there's a bug report about it in the BTS
23:23<rigved>Ham: ideally should be :)
23:24<Ham>aka there is a bug report about it, I've read it. perhaps filed against the installer.
23:24<sney>I think it was one of the things that was supposed to be fixed for 6.0.1
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23:26<sweetpi>Ham: paste your fstab line
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23:28<bones_was_here_>when i run an aptitude update, i see no errors, however if i run an apt-get update, i get a mass of W: Failed to fetch bzip2:/var/lib/apt/lists/partial/ Hash Sum mismatch
23:28<bones_was_here_>changing mirrors has no effect
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23:28<Ham>sweetpi: UUID=........-....-....-....-............ /mnt/usb_backup ext3 defaults,noauto,errors=remount-ro 0 2
23:29<sweetpi>Ham: likely you need to change pass from 2 to 0
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23:30<Ham>sweetpi: Ok, I'll try that. I never fully groked those last two numbers, but always figured pass 0 would be first, and for the USB drives I want them mounted last. ideally fsck would ignore any noauto lines if the fs wasn't there...
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23:31<sweetpi>Ham: pass is the order in which fsck is ran, 0 means dont run fsck
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23:32<Ham>sweetpi: ah! that makes good sense then. I was assuming it was counting like C.
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23:38<sweetpi>bones_was_here_: are you behind a proxy?
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23:40<bones_was_here_>sweetpi: yes, but if i comment the proxy line in /etc/apt/apt.conf (direct access is also available from this machine) it still happens
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23:41<bones_was_here_>the machine that doesnt have the problem always uses the proxy
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23:42<sweetpi>bones_was_here_: try: apt-get update -o Acquire::http::No-Cache=True
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23:43<bones_was_here_>sweetpi: same errors
23:43<bones_was_here_>(with the proxy line commented)
23:44<th_>what about clearing the content of /var/lib/apt/lists/partial/
23:44<sweetpi>bones_was_here_: ok, leave it commented, but also try "apt-get update -o Acquire::BrokenProxy=true"
23:44<th_>and /var/lib/apt/lists/
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23:45<linuxuz3r>bones_was_here_ did you fix your problem
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23:47<bones_was_here>linuxuz3r: BrokenProxy didn't help, but clearing those files might.. its still downloading
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23:47<bones_was_here>nope same errors :/
23:48<linuxuz3r>hey bones_was_here does most packages is hosted in debian servers?
23:48<linuxuz3r>or are they outside of debian servers?
23:48<bones_was_here>the errors are complaining about testing, unstable and experimental repos, but not stable - yet the machine that runs with no problems also has testing and unstable in its sources.list but has no problems with them
23:49<bones_was_here>linuxuz3r: debian has a huge package archive, its rare i need to install software from other sources
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23:50<linuxuz3r>can you post your source.list so that i get an idea
23:50<linuxuz3r>im moving from ubuntu to debian
23:50<linuxuz3r>but im still considering it
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23:51<linuxuz3r>i dont like the update every year methodology
23:51<linuxuz3r>bones_was_here please post your source.list
23:52<bones_was_here>linuxuz3r: on this machine i have
23:52<bones_was_here>my other machines all have something else, for various reasons :)
23:52<linuxuz3r>for the stable
23:52<sney>bones_was_here: you should really use the codenames for stable and testing
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23:53<bones_was_here>sney: if i do that for a testing machine, it'll get moved to a stable machine when there's a release
23:53<bones_was_here>that isn't very often i guess
23:53<sney>it isn't, and there's always warning signs for a couple months at least
23:55<bones_was_here>linuxuz3r: for a stable machine i just have
23:55<bones_was_here>(nb: that machine doesn't need any non-free)
23:56<bones_was_here>which is nearly the default
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23:59<sweetpi>bones_was_here: looks as though the .au mirror is in the process of updating, some of the checksums in Release dont match other mirrors
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23:59<bones_was_here>sweetpi: maybe thats been propagated to other au mirrors? i have not tried any overseas ones
---Logclosed Mon Apr 04 00:00:20 2011