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#debian IRC Logs for 2011-04-04

---Logopened Mon Apr 04 00:00:20 2011
---Daychanged Mon Apr 04 2011
00:00<bones_was_here>but... i never get this problem eg on my home computer, but every week or two this computer (at work) has the problem
00:00<bones_was_here>then it goes away
00:00<sweetpi>bones_was_here: .br, .ca, .us all seem to match, but .au's are different
00:00<bones_was_here>great :/
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00:03<sweetpi>.uk matches as well, id just wait a bit until it's in sync
00:03<linuxuz3r>bones_was_here how do you backup your home folder?
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00:08<bones_was_here>linuxuz3r: at home i dont back up, but rely on raid instead because i have too much data
00:09<bones_was_here>linuxuz3r: at work we use bacula to back up the fileserver that contains everyone's home folders, but thats probably overkill for your use-case :)
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00:18<ilya80>hey guys! need a few pointers about missing partitions in /dev/disk/by-id
00:20<ilya80>basically I have several harddrives, say sda, sdb and sdc.. and everytime i boot, sdb partitions ( sdb1, sdb2 etc ) do not come up in this dir
00:20<ilya80>i can get them back by performing sudo partprobe /dev/sdb, but i really need them before, since they are part of my raid devices
00:21<ilya80>any pointers would be really appreciated, thanks
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00:24<ilya80>yeah, and sdb / sdc get interchanged randomly also :P
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00:26<bones_was_here>ilya80: do you need to use by-id? md doesn't care what order the raid devices are in... do the partitions show up as /dev/sdb* without running partprobe?
00:27<ilya80>I figured i had to specify partitions by their id's in mdadm.conf
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00:27<ilya80>and no, every boot only one set of partitions is there
00:27<ilya80>like if sdb1, sdb2, sdb3 is there, then sdc* are not there
00:28<ilya80>fresh install of debian stable
00:30<bones_was_here>you don't need to list the devices in mdadm.conf at all, you can just list the uuid of the array
00:30<bones_was_here>eg on a machine here, ARRAY /dev/md1 UUID=46bb3664:66e0a4dc:71701359:599df819
00:30<bones_was_here>is enough
00:30<ilya80>i think i have it like this in there now
00:31<ilya80>but this way my raid1 always starts degraded ( 1 device out of 2 ) and 2 other raid0 devices do not start at all
00:32<bones_was_here>yeah the partitions not showing up is odd, i have not seen that happen
00:32<bones_was_here>it still shows the device itself, just not the partitions?
00:34<bones_was_here>wow :/
00:34<bones_was_here>regular msdos or gpt partition tables?
00:34<ilya80>msdos i think
00:35<ilya80>also my current mdadm.conf is a mess, I think ( there are two records for md0, for example ) but to fix it i`d need to know UUIDs of partitions to explicitly specify them for raid devices
00:36<ilya80>i can see them after i do a partprobe, but i`m not sure its gonna work after reboot since partitions are not there in /dev/disk/by-id
00:37<bones_was_here>in mdadm -D /dev/md* you can see the UUID for each array
00:37<bones_was_here>md puts the same UUID in the raid metadata for each member of the array
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00:38<bones_was_here>partitions themselves don't have uuid's (well, in GPT they probably do)
00:38<ilya80>also i think at least 1 thing went wrong - installer warned me that I`d have to use metadata=0.90 since i`m booting from a raid1 partition , but currently its metadata=1.2
00:39<bones_was_here>grub 2 should boot any md metadata version, iirc the 0.9 requirement was only for grub 1
00:39<ilya80>hmm, should i install grub-pc then?
00:40<ilya80>i probably should
00:40<bones_was_here>i thought squeeze used grub2 by default
00:40<ilya80>hmm thats true
00:41<ilya80>i got it
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00:41<bones_was_here>otherwise you would probably not be able to boot :p
00:41<ilya80>I R noob
00:41<ilya80>anyway, I`d have to make sure all partitions have correct UUID written into their metadata, right?
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00:42<ilya80>that would be mdadm --misc --examine /dev/sdb1, etc
00:42<bones_was_here>nope, to get the uuid for a md device, just use the one shown by /dev/mdadm -D /dev/md*
00:43<bones_was_here>md writes the same metadata into each disk, and keeps it updated when necessary
00:43<ilya80>well then the question is then why my raid1 starts degraded everytime :( ?
00:43<bones_was_here>but thats for your mdadm.conf - for fstab, you need to use the uuid shown by dumpe2fs -h
00:44<ilya80>they would be different? :O
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00:45<bones_was_here>filesystems have metadata with uuid's, and so do md arrays
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00:46<twb>Is "$RepeatedMsgReduction on" the default even if I comment it out?
00:46<twb>The rsyslog.conf(5) manpage doesn't mention that variable at all.
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00:47<bones_was_here>but the two aren't the same, and raw disks/partitions do not have uuid's
00:48<twb>And -e isn't mentioned in the manpage either :-/
00:48<bones_was_here>twb: sorry i was referring to a different problem
00:48<twb>bones_was_here: I'm talking to me, not you
00:48<bones_was_here>i am confused due to lack of caffeine
00:48<ilya80>mm coffee
00:50<ilya80>alright suppose i rebuild / recreate all my arrays, put correct UUIDs into mdadm.conf and fstab
00:50<ilya80>should I do something to make that change affect my boot?
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00:52<ilya80>like udpate-initramfs or something
00:52<bones_was_here>ilya80: you're probably using ext directly on top of your md devices, but if you were eg using lvm to break them up, then the array's uuid wouldn't work for identifying which volume to mount in fstab (because that uuid could then refer to several volumes) - so thats why ext has its own uuids for that
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00:53<bones_was_here>update-initramfs is correct yeah, but you shouldn't need to recreate the arrays to fix this
00:53<ilya80>bones_was_here: ok. yes i use ext3, ext2 and swap directly on top of raid devices
00:54<bones_was_here>are you using multiple arrays just to get separate partitions eg for /home /var / swap etc?
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00:54<ilya80>yes, /swap , root and /opt
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00:57<bones_was_here>if you use lvm, you can split arrays so you only need one array and one real partition on each disk
00:57<bones_was_here>either way works but its nice to keep things simple imo, of course you'll have to rebuild to get it set up like that
00:57<ilya80>well i suppose i could.
00:58<bones_was_here>depending how you use the system, it may be faster
00:58<ilya80>btw installer did not see partitions either, i just remembered it now
00:58<ilya80>must be something about my specific setup
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00:59<bones_was_here>are there other operating systems on these disks?
00:59<bones_was_here>it sounds like you already had partitions when you started the installer
01:00<ilya80>true, but i nuked them and recreated them over several reboots
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01:00<bones_was_here>if you decide to reinstall, maybe try a fresh partition table on each disk
01:01<ilya80>how do i do this?
01:01<bones_was_here>in the text mode installer at least, you can press enter on a disk and it'll prompt you to create one, i imagine the gui installer does something similar
01:01<ilya80>tried nuking all partitions before
01:01<ilya80>text and gui ones are pretty much the same
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01:02<ilya80>you use manual mode and then it lets you in to change / update / create partitions
01:02<bones_was_here>just deleting partitions leaves the partition table intact
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01:02<ilya80>yes, i had to write the table and reboot
01:02<ilya80>it writes the table before starting configuring raid
01:03<bones_was_here>oh, you shouldn't have to reboot after a new table...
01:03<jm_>you can always switch to tty2 and modify it there too
01:03<bones_was_here>ilya80: are you using sata disks?
01:04<ilya80>yep, using 2 identical 1 TB sata disks and 1 IDE that comes up as sata via onboard controller
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01:04<bones_was_here>if you had to reboot after a partition table update, your sata disks might be in IDE mode, which is a bios setting
01:05<ilya80>i think they are
01:05<bones_was_here>the IDE mode is only there for compatability with old versions of windows, you should use AHCI mode for linux
01:05<bones_was_here>i have no idea if that will be related to the partitions not showing, but AHCI mode is at least faster and better for hotplugging/auto detecting
01:06<ilya80>right, that could screw up installer you think?
01:06<ilya80>i suppose i could give it another try
01:06<bones_was_here>well, the ide mode is an emulation done by the bios, which could have bugs in it
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01:07<ilya80>riiight :D onto another install attempt
01:07<bones_was_here>create fresh partition tables
01:08<ilya80>i`d rather have half of my stuff on raid1 for reliability and half on raid0 for extra space
01:08<ilya80>that was the idea
01:08<bones_was_here>are you only using two disks in the arrays?
01:08<ilya80>poor man raid :P
01:09<bones_was_here>ah pity
01:09<ilya80>actually my current setup is what i wanted, now might just change the mode from IDE emulation to AHCI in bios and try to fix up this mess
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01:10<ilya80>i`ll do this and see if i can boot
01:10<ilya80>thank you very much !! :)
01:10<bones_was_here>does the IDE disk ever have the no partitions problem?
01:10<ilya80>no, never
01:11<bones_was_here>in that case im pretty sure AHCI will fix your issue :)
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01:16<ilya80>alright i booted fine, will now try to put correct UUIDs into mdadm.conf and fstab and see where it it gets me
01:16<ilya80>thanks a lot, bones was here !
01:17<ilya80>and yes! :)
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01:18<ilya80>all my partitions are back in /dev/disk/by-id now
01:18<ilya80>seems like IDE compat. mode is evil
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01:20<ilya80>uh, or not
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01:20<ilya80>anyway i`ll poke around
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01:22<bones_was_here>ilya80: np, gl
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02:28<th>i'm using rxvt-unicode in squeeze, how do i zoom the text? like using ctrl +, ctrl - in iceweasel
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02:50<jm_>th: you can't according to the man page (in lenny), but you can use escape sequences
02:51<jm_>th: ahh no, you can bind commands to keys and that can print the right sequence, so there is a way, but you'll need to configure it by hand
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03:08<mosno>will KDE 4.6 ever come to backports?
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03:12<bones_was_here>idk but hopefully it'll come to sid soon :)
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03:18<mosno>bones_was_here: i am guessing that KDE is too "big" for backports
03:19<mosno>the only reason i want it is that konqueror uses webkit in it
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03:19<mosno>as opposed to KHTML which isn't receiving security updates in squeeze
03:20<bones_was_here>yeah backporting new kde would probably require -masses- of libraries that might affect other things to be updated
03:21<bones_was_here>has kde or gnome ever been backported before?
03:21<mosno>bones_was_here: i doubt gnome would have been, but kde is more modular
03:21<mosno>bones_was_here: i don't know the history of backports to be honest
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03:41<th_>how to set stumpwm prefix key to just hyper key
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03:46<th_>got it, (set-prefix-key (kbd "Menu"))
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03:53<Brutus>I'm trying to use Wheezy's Debian GNU/kFreeBSD installer, but I get two errors: "error: invalid a.out header" and "error: only ELF kernel supports module". Supposedly this is fixed in unstable, but how do I get an iso with the fix?
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05:01<lbt>does anyone know how to make a 64 bit kernel on a 32 bit system using make-kpkg? I can build a custom using ARCH=x86_64 but m-k overrides that. I don't need to cross-compile. Just set ARCH
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05:03<th_>setting the arch without cross compiling?
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05:04<lbt>clearly a simple "ARCH=x86_64 make" will actually result in the correct binary kernel ... I'd just like the packaging wrap :)
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05:05<th_>exotic requirement, never heard anything like this before
05:06<lbt>heh .... google "make-kpkg 64bit"
05:06<lbt>the issue seems to be that it forces the use off cross-
05:06<lbt>which just isn't needed
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05:07<th_>i seee
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05:32<Bear>×ÓÅÍ ÐÒÉ×ÅÔ!
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05:42<camel__>does anyone know where i can get the debian 2.6.38-2 amd64 kernel config?
05:43<camel__>the site: appears to be down
05:43<camel__>if anyone has a copy spare i'd really appreciate a copy by dcc/email
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05:46<camel__>oh, they're in /boot
05:46<camel__>that's clever
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07:09<mhdpiero>how to add gadget desktop to kde?
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07:11<themill>mhdpiero: click on the plasma icon (yellow "cashew" in the top right or bottom right of your screen). You can then "add widgets".
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07:13<mhdpiero>thanks for your answer themill
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07:41<dario_>how bad is it if my kernel is armel and the userland armhf ?
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08:06<EmleyMoor>Is there a font I can use on a Debian system which has monospaced characters but very thin spaces? (say, 4 or 5 spaces to the width of a letter)
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08:06<classical>hello what does it means when some programs like ssh listens to instead of valid Ip address ?
08:07<EmleyMoor>classical: Listening on all interfaces
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08:08<classical>EmleyMoor, i have only one ip address should i change it ?
08:09<nevyn>classical: no.
08:09<nevyn>definitly not.
08:09<EmleyMoor>classical: What, only
08:09<nevyn>EmleyMoor: don't be obtuse ;) even if it is accurate
08:10<nevyn>EmleyMoor: he'll also have ::1 almost certainly
08:10<classical>i did not mean local ip address
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08:11<nevyn>classical: you should not change it from if you have only one address. (in fact it's only a good reason to change it is when you have a multihomed system with a dedicated in band management network.)
08:11<nevyn>wow my grammar sucks tonight.
08:13<jm_>well unless you want it to listen on specific interface only
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08:14<nevyn>see that's not helping.
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08:16<chiku>I did fakeroot make-kpkg --initrd --append-to-version=-custom kernel_image kernel_headers
08:16<chiku>but why I got this package name linux-image-2.6.32-custom_2.6.32-custom-10.00.Custom_amd64.deb
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09:05<classical>nevyn, thanks :)
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09:06<nevyn>classical: heh dunno that it really helped.
09:06<classical>it helped :)
09:07<nevyn>classical: so we have public facing production nics and protected management nic's and we bind ssh to the management nic ip addresses to reduce the public exposure of ssh.
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09:07<nevyn>but unless you have a network configuration of that level of complexity then you don't want to change it.
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09:08<Alo>yeah, im having problems with connection to web with backtrack4
09:08<classical>nevyn, in case of when i have many interfaces and ipes right ?
09:08<Alo>any solution to this problem?
09:08<petemc>Alo: #backtrack-linux on
09:09<Alo>aye, ty
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09:09<nevyn>classical: basically yes. you might want to do it for a particular security configuration if you had a network that supported such a configuration.
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09:10<nevyn>classical basically where you have something like.. public web user <- Internet -> productionnic (host) managementnic <- admin secure network -> admin shell system
09:11*nevyn isn't convinced this is actually good.
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09:11<nevyn>it's popular tho as a enterprise architecture.
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09:36<EmleyMoor>Is there a font that is monospaced apart from the spaces, which I need to be very thin? If not, is there an easy way to make a modified version of, say, Liberation Mono to achieve this?
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09:38<nevyn>EmleyMoor: why do you need that?
09:39<EmleyMoor>nevyn: For overlaying typed text onto forms where positioning is critical
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09:40<nevyn>EmleyMoor: use absolute positioning instead? with something that generates inkscape or tex?
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09:42<EmleyMoor>nevyn: That sounds like a lot of effort... unless you can show me an easier way... if I try to position each letter individually in, say, xournal, the vertical alignment becomes decidedly wobbly
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09:43<EmleyMoor>Basically I am typing text over a background PDF
09:43<nevyn>EmleyMoor: so. inkscape can control kerning of individual letters with GREAT precision.
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09:44*EmleyMoor will try inkscape
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09:46<EmleyMoor>Is there a way to import all of the pages of a PDF into inkscape at once?
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09:47<nevyn>if you look in the manual under tutorials -> advanced
09:47<nevyn>so yes there is.
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09:54<EmleyMoor>nevyn: What exactly are you referring to as "the manual"? The one on the web doesn't have a "Tutorials" section
09:54<nevyn>help -> tutorials -> advanced
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09:57<EmleyMoor>nevyn: Not found any reference to importing all pages in there
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09:57<nevyn>so you should be able to insert a pdf as an image.
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09:59<mobildorn>Hi, how can I specify an optional file to be a conffile of a package?
09:59*EmleyMoor just can't see it
09:59<mobildorn>I found a hint to debian/conffiles, but there seems to be no documentation about this subject.
09:59<nevyn>EmleyMoor: file -> import pdf file
10:00<nevyn>EmleyMoor: the advance stuff explains how to control kerning stuff in inkscape.
10:00<EmleyMoor>nevyn: That does not appear to be able to do more than one page
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10:02<nevyn>EmleyMoor: well that sucks...
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10:02<nevyn>EmleyMoor: dunno then.
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10:09<EmleyMoor>Is there a way to force reloading of fonts?
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10:31<ComradeHaz`>Hi all. I have a system pxe booting that has started refusing to boot as it is unable to mount the nfs. It's getting the right IP and the exports on the serving machine are correct. Anyone have any ideas what I need to look at?
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10:31<ComradeHaz`>This broke after an unscheduled reboot of the server.
10:32<EmleyMoor>If I add an edited font into the fonts directory, how do I make it usable?
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11:05<thkoch>I'm trying to install squeeze with /boot on raid1 and / on encrypted raid1, but it won't boot. It won't mount / it seems
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11:13<tempid>is it possible to write a generic device driver for a device which is PCIe based...
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11:14<tempid>assuming that the device might change to USB or something else in the future
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11:15<SynrG>tempid: if you're asking this as a developer, i think you're in the wrong place :)
11:15<SynrG>#kernelnewbies or something?
11:16<SynrG>(freenode, i think)
11:16<tempid>thanks... I'll try there
11:17<SynrG>or maybe it's just a mailing list? dunno if they have an irc presence
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11:17<tempid>ok SynrG... thanks
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11:21<esmaeil>tempid search debian-devel for debian developer irc
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11:22<ballison>what rolls the logs in /var/log ? I thought logrotate did this , but I see nothing in logrotate that talks about syslog or messages
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11:23<SynrG>esmaeil: well, it's OT for debian-devel as well, being a general kernel development question
11:23<SynrG>ballison: cron hook for logrotate?
11:24<ballison>SynrG: weirder than that... looks like there's a cron.daily that called "savelog"
11:24<ballison>why would they not use logrotate? that's what logrotate is for
11:24<esmaeil>SynrG are you looking for somewhere about kernel discussion?
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11:24<mjt>here it's in a logrotate.d snipped that comes with syslogd
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11:24<SynrG>ballison: i guess you're missing the fact that /etc/logrotate.conf includes the contents of /etc/logrotate.d/*
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11:25<ballison>SynrG: I guess you are missing the fact that I checked /etc/logrotate.d FIRST and there's nothing in /etc/logrotate.d for syslog
11:25<SynrG>mjt: yup. was just looking at that. rsyslog for me. includes /var/log/syslog
11:25<glawson>Trying to update my 5.0.5 system, getting error message "GPG error: stable Release:...
11:25<SynrG>ballison: what? i guess we don't have the same syslog?
11:26<ballison>I'm running syslogd. you are probably running rsyslogd
11:26<glawson>The following
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11:26<glawson>signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available:
11:26<glawson>NO_PUBKEY AED4B
11:26<SynrG>ballison: sorry. no idea, then
11:26<mjt>rsyslog, inetutils-syslogd, sysklogd - all have something in /etc/logrotate.d/
11:27<glawson>so then I do: gpg --keyserver --recv-keys AED....."
11:27<glawson>gpg: requesting key 473041FA from hkp server
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11:27<ballison>mjt: That's an incorrect statement
11:27<mjt>glawson: these keys are usually in *-archive-keyring packages, no? Unless you added some 3rd party repository
11:27<glawson>gpg: requesting key 473041FA from hkp server
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11:27<glawson>gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found.
11:28<stderr_dk>You ask for AED... and get 4730...?
11:28<ballison>mjt: sysklogd included a CRON in /etc/cron.daily/sysklogd for rolling logs NOT in /etc/logrotate.d
11:28<glawson>AED...... just truncated the rest, sorry
11:28<mjt>ballison: ok, i stand corrected. and it uses syslogd-listfiles
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11:29<mjt>i just thought i do have sysklogd on one of my systems - but it turned out all them are running inetutils-syslogd
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11:30<stderr_dk>glawson: I usually use something like: apt-key adv --recv-key A040830F7FAC5991
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11:30<glawson>all I have for repos is stable and main
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11:33<mesaber>I just installed debian and I want to learn every thing about linux
11:33<mesaber>any ideas?
11:33<petemc>start using it
11:33<petemc>keep using it
11:33<ballison>mjt: i guess I should use inetutils-syslogd instead?
11:33<babilen>!tell mesaber -about grounding
11:33<stderr_dk>mesaber: "Everything"? You have too much spare time...
11:34<babilen>!tell mesaber -about general cli tutorial
11:34<mjt>ballison: why?
11:34<ballison>mjt: because it inetutils-syslogd uses logrotate.d
11:34<ballison>mjt: and what i installed, syslogd, does not use logrotate.d
11:35<mjt>if you want to use logrotate to rotate syslog files - probably yes
11:35<mjt>but i don't see the reason for that wish
11:35<ballison>mjt: easier to configure
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11:35<babilen>mesaber: Start by reading the documents linked in there. You should also ask dpkg about the things in "<" ">" -- A book like and/or might also come in handy
11:35<mjt>ballison: i don't see where it's easier, honestly
11:36<ballison>mjt: well syslogd just calls "savelog" for each file listed in syslogd-listfiles... so it's not very configurable
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11:37<glawson>apt-key adv --recv-key
11:37<glawson> times out....
11:38<glawson>apt-key adv --recv-key
11:38<glawson><I hate this irc client I'm using>
11:38<mjt>ballison: you can just as easy add logrotate.d script instead of that cron.d thing, i see absolutely no difference in configurability
11:38<glawson>Executing: gpg --ignore-time-conflict ...... AED4B06F473041FA
11:39<glawson>gpg: requesting key 473041FA from hkp server
11:39<glawson>gpg: keyserver timed out
11:39<glawson>gpg: keyserver receive failed: keyserver error
11:39<mjt>ballison: besides, the way how sysklogd works applies to any configuration changes you made in syslogd.conf - if you added new files into there they will be picked up by syslogd-listfiles
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11:40<stderr_dk>glawson: subkeys is 5 different servers and I know one of them is sometimes ... ehm... how to put it nicely... "not acting as well as you would have hoped".
11:41<stderr_dk>So yeah, sometimes you just have to try again and hope you don't hit that server... :-/
11:42<stderr_dk>Unfortunately I can't remember which one is being stupid. :-(
11:42<ballison>interesting, when I installed inetutils-syslogd and it removed sysklogd, it left behind /etc/cron.daily/sysklogd ... even though it said it removed the package..
11:42<mjt>removed but not purged
11:43<ballison>mjt: well that's gonna make a "big ol' mess"
11:43<glawson>OK, I'll wait a bit and try again...
11:43<mjt>it's been this way for more than a decade
11:44<ballison>mjt: I'm from the redhat world... i've only been using debina a couple months. I'm not used to the illogical nature of removing a package and it leaving behind all the elements that were installed.
11:45<mjt>not all just conffiles
11:45<ballison>mjt: it left behind the init scipts too ... like /etc/init.d/sysklogd
11:45<mjt>that's how it's supposed to work
11:45<ballison>how do I remove them? i tried apt-get remove klog sysklogd and it said they were already removed... yet the files and scripts are still installed.
11:45<mjt>you can `dpkg -P sysklogd' if you dislike it
11:46<mjt>apt-get remove --purge
11:46<ballison>mjt: says they are not installed.
11:47<mjt>apt --purge only works if theyre installed
11:47<mjt>dpkg -P works always
11:47<dpkg>mjt: wish i knew
11:47<stderr_dk>aptitude purge sysklogd
11:48<ballison>stderr_dk: That worked. thanks.
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11:51<sebastia1>I can't set good screen resolution and refresh rate. How can I tell X about the screen frequencies?
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11:51<mjt>xrandr probably? it is now configured from your desktop environment
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11:54<SynrG>sebastia1: normally X configures automatically to give you "best" resolution & refresh rate. to do this, it gets the EDID from the monitor, which tells X what the monitor says is best.
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11:54<SynrG>sebastia1: if that's not working for you, the graphics driver and/or EDID of the monitor may be broken
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11:54<sebastia1>SynrG: It worked before, but now it doesn't.
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11:55<SynrG>or you may have the wrong driver
11:55<SynrG>sebastia1: what changed?
11:55<SynrG>between before and now
11:55<sebastia1>At first it didn't work, too, and I changed the graphical shared memory and aperture.
11:55<sebastia1>Dunno. We played a few gabes.
11:56<sebastia1>Reboot didn't help
11:56<SynrG>are you by chance using a non-free graphics card driver?
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11:56<sebastia1>Plain fresh squeeze install.
11:56<SynrG>what card?
11:56<sebastia1>sis onboard.
11:57<sebastia1>Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] 65x/M650/740
11:57<sebastia1>Found the computer in the trash.
11:57<SynrG>this is not one of the names that comes to mind when i think "quality graphics" :)
11:57<sebastia1>I'm preparing it for a 6 yo kid.
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11:57<SynrG>so, there may be a regression here in the kernel, Xorg, or both. dunno
11:58<SynrG>so by default, it's crappy? with no xorg.conf?
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11:58<sebastia1>I don't think I did a kernel upgrade.
11:58<SynrG>uname -r
11:58-!-berto [] has quit [Quit: bye]
11:58<SynrG>well. then there was the 6.0.1 release lately
11:58-!-hemanth [~hemanth@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:58<SynrG>so the debian version# may have changed there.
11:59<sebastia1>There's no xorg.conf, right. Can I just create one?
11:59<SynrG>dpkg -l linux-image-2.6.32-5-686
11:59<dpkg>No packages found matching linux-image-2.6.32-5-686
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12:00<sebastia1>installed here.
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12:00<SynrG>sebastia1: yes, but what debian version/
12:00<sebastia1>squeeze? :)
12:00<SynrG>what debian version# of that package
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12:01<mjt>sis driver does not use kms iirc
12:01<mjt>so it has nothing to do with the kernel
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12:01<mjt>but it still supports xrandr
12:01<SynrG>so, moving along, xorg ...
12:01<SynrG>so this *same* fresh squeeze install worked before and spontaneously broke?
12:01<SynrG>or you did some package upgrades between?
12:01<sebastia1>screen setup GUI gives me 960x600, 60 Hz max.
12:02<SynrG>ignore that. type:
12:02<SynrG>pastebin the results, please.
12:02<sebastia1>I want 1024*768, 85 Hz. Already had that.
12:02<mjt>and i think i saw something like that before on a older machine - was fine resolution before, now some crappy one. but i don't remember any details already
12:03<SynrG>i wonder if it's just not loading SiS driver at all, but falling back to VESA
12:03<SynrG>check /var/log/Xorg.0.log
12:03<mjt>might bee too
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12:03<SynrG>in which case it will be interesting to see why it hates you
12:03<mjt>for fun, xrandr does not work with nouveau on recent kernels. it lists just one resolution
12:04<SynrG>sebastia1: pastebin your whole /var/log/Xorg.0.log
12:04<sney>nouveau is pretty feature-light in general. I'm sure it'll get added in
12:04<mjt>either vesa or the driver can't get amount of video memory correctly
12:04<mjt>sney: eventually we'll all die, for sure :)
12:05<SynrG>i have to work. i take it any other helper here can see your Xorg.0.log and take it from there.
12:06<sebastia1>thanks SynrG
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12:06<mjt>sney: can you please use instead of this thing that requires captcha for some reason? :)
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12:06<sebastia1>How about creating a xorg.conf and put the monitor frequencies there?
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12:07<sney>it wasn't me, but I linked you anyway mjt
12:07<sebastia1>I wanted to, but paste(bin) didn't work.
12:07<mjt>"(WW) SIS(0): Could not find/read video BIOS"
12:07<sney>sebastia1: for future reference, it's
12:08<mjt>so it can't get the card parameters for some reason, and falling back to built-in defaults
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12:08<mjt>(II) SIS(0): <default monitor>: Using default hsync range of 31.50-37.90 kHz
12:08<sebastia1>dpkg also mentions
12:08<dpkg>sebastia1: parse error: dunno what the heck you're talking about
12:09<cannesahs>what is nowadays correct script/config file to set system wide defaul umask in debian squeeze?
12:09<mjt>sebastia1: no prob with that, just a suggestion
12:09<SynrG>mjt: yes, and consequently:
12:09<SynrG>(II) SIS(0): <default monitor>: Using default hsync range of 31.50-37.90 kHz
12:09<SynrG>argh. the # signs :(
12:09<mjt>already pasted that one :)
12:09<SynrG>POS pastebin
12:09<SynrG>oh, duh
12:09<SynrG>sorry. half paying attention to work, half here ;)
12:10<sebastia1>How about creating a xorg.conf and put the monitor frequencies there? Would that work?
12:10<sney>too bad that computer garbage can didn't have a discrete gfx card as well
12:10<mjt>it can't read bios or ddc
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12:10<SynrG>so no wonder it can't figure it out
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12:10<SynrG>i wonder if the card is just fried
12:10<mjt>sney: and an lcd monitor :)
12:10<SynrG>works before, fails now sounds like flaky hardware if you did no installs between
12:10<sebastia1>It's a 17" CRT.
12:10<sney>those SiS onboard gpus were born shitty.
12:11<mjt>sebastia1: in theory it should work without any config help, that's the whole point of it. You can try to force some parameters but it _should_ work without. Smells like a bug for sure
12:11<SynrG>my advice, buy a used netbook. plug in a kid-themed mouse and plug it into the 17" screen
12:11<SynrG>that will do nicely for a 6yo
12:12<SynrG>won't cost very much either
12:12<SynrG>this class of system will give you nothing but grief
12:12<sebastia1>It's not my kid, and I have very little money. The mother is on social aid.
12:12<SynrG>pick a *better* system out of the trash?
12:13<SynrG>or find some gfx card ...
12:13<SynrG>disable the onboard one
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12:13<sebastia1>I'll try the xorg.conf.
12:13<SynrG>yes. might work.
12:13<sebastia1>Hmm, I have some spare cards ....
12:13<sebastia1>But there are only PCI slots. I think the onboard SIS is AGP.
12:14<sney>a pci ati or nvidia would be better than an agp sis
12:14<sney>besides it's probably only using a 2x bus anyway
12:14<SynrG>mjt: ahh. comment #25 is illuminating
12:15<sebastia1>Hmm. I also have a different monitor ...
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12:16<sebastia1>loadkeys can't open file 'dvorak'.
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12:20<mjt>sebastia1: the driver from current -testing should work
12:20<mjt>xserver-xorg-video-sis (1:0.10.2-2) unstable; urgency=high
12:20<mjt> * Cherry-pick 8370499d4035ec7a5c8e1f1b04d5a6c404883442
12:20<mjt> Fix BIOS read on 650 and 760. (#19070) Closes: #546714. LP: #287475
12:21<sebastia1>mjt: ok
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12:22<sebastia1>loadkeys can't open any maps it seems. de, us.
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12:23<esmaeil>for RFA i need a sponsor?
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12:26<sebastia1>How can I set the dvorak keyboard layout in the text console?
12:26<mjt>doesn't it depend on the keyboard?
12:26<sebastia1>I don't care about the keyboard. I'm a dvorak typist.
12:27<mjt>i mean, the keys on the keyboard are labelled, no?
12:27<sebastia1>I don't look while I type. Except if I have to do querty.
12:27<sney>it's one of the dpkg-reconfigures
12:27<sebastia1>they are, sure :).
12:28<mjt>(but you can move the buttons)
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12:28<sney>dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration
12:28<sney>sebastia1: ^
12:29<nathan>Hi. I want to use memtester to test my memory in user land. I have to specify the amount of memory to check but i don't know how to choose this value properly...
12:29<sney>nathan: what does the manpage say?
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12:30<mjt>nathan: you may try memtest86 package - it installs as a new boot option
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12:31<nathan>sney, nothing about choosing the value, just what the memory option mean
12:31<nathan>mjt, i don't need a boot cd to use memtest86?
12:31<mjt>you can run it from a cd too
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12:32<nathan>mjt, ho but i don't want run it from a cd ^^
12:32<nathan>i have to set my grub to boot on memtest86, that s it?
12:32<mjt>you'll choose on next boot
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12:33<nathan>mjt, i just have to install memtest86 packages?
12:33<sebastia1>sney: didn't work. even after relogin. I also don't want to change this permanently, but I can change it back when I'm done.
12:33<sebastia1>nathan: There's also memtest86+
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12:34<sebastia1>nathan: Yes, then you will have a memtest86(+) boot option which can test all your memory.
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12:34<nathan>sebastia1, what s the differences between both?
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12:34<sebastia1>nathan: the + works with some newer hardware, I read in the package description.
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12:34<sebastia1>see aptitude show memtest86
12:35<jhutchins_lt>aptitude show memtest86 memtest86+
12:35<jhutchins_lt>nathan: ^^
12:36<arya_>hello there, if I want to change from squeeze to wheezy, I have read I have to change the third euh... field in sources.list to testing/wheezy, but my question is wether I also have to edit this line as well: deb squeeze/updates main
12:36<nathan>Ok thanks. It s now installed. What i have to do now? : D
12:36<nathan>make a grub img?
12:36<sney>arya_: security updates are for stable only
12:37<arya_>so I can comment them out
12:37<arya_>till wheezy becomes the new stable
12:37<sney>or until someone announces security for wheezy, whichever happens first
12:37<sebastia1>nathan: reboot
12:37<arya_>so, I 'll comment them out in that case, thank you sney
12:38<babilen>arya_: And you don't want that to be testing/wheezy but only "wheezy" -- That being said: I wouldn't actually recommend to run wheezy if you have to ask this question as you will have to deal with more swrious problems than this when you do.
12:38<nathan>sebastia1, and? it ll run the process by himself?
12:38<sebastia1>nathan: Did the install mentioning some grub activity?
12:38<nathan>sebastia1, nop
12:38<sebastia1>nathan: No? Sure? that's unusual, IMO.
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12:39<nathan>what you mean by "grub activity"?
12:39<nathan>i can reinstall maybe
12:39<sebastia1>nathan: did you install with a GUI?
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12:39<nathan>sebastia1, no, with aptitude from consol
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12:40<sebastia1>nathan: You should have a memtest86 boot opiton in the boot menu. You may check /boot/grub/grub.conf first, if you like.
12:40<sebastia1>or grub.cfg
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12:42<arya_>babilen, I know that,(I was refering to one of the two, if I put testing, I would always have testing, I have investigated a bit), that being said, one can wonder off in this magical world of Debian lol, no jk, I recently used Linux Mint(debian core) and if I recall correctly, their source files was as well based on the testing branch ++ I am a computer sciense student, curiousity is a second nature :)
12:42<nathan>sebastia1, i have no file called grub.cfg or .conf in my /boot/grub repository : /
12:42<sebastia1>still no dvorak on the text console :(.
12:42<sebastia1>nathan: Maybe menu.lst?
12:42<sebastia1>if you still use the old grub.
12:42<nathan>sebastia1, yes
12:43<sebastia1>look there, near the end.
12:43<nathan>sebastia1, yeah i have some line about memtest86 but they re commented
12:44<sebastia1>ok, so I use ssh from a different machine, as I can't set the local text console to dvorak ...
12:44<nathan>sebastia1, i past you this few lines?
12:44<gsimmons>nathan: WRT GRUB Legacy, you'll need to set memtest86=true in /boot/grub/menu.lst than run 'update-grub' to populate it with memtest86(+) entries.
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12:44<babilen>arya_: Have fun in then. You might want to set the default release to wheezy -- /msg dpkg default release -- and include sid sources too, so you can pull packages from there as well when they get removed from testing.
12:44<drc>Following (the "Install a pre-built module" Section) to install proprietary nVidia drivers. Running the listed there gives "Your card is supported by the default drivers and version 173" (my card as listed on is "GeForce 8400M GS 0x0427 A") and uname -r gives "2.6.32-5-686". Based on that information, what do I
12:44<drc>need to do to modify (if anything) in "apt-get install nvidia-kernel${VERSION}-$(uname -r)" to download the "default drivers series" and "apt-get install nvidia-glx${VERSION}" to install the X driver and user-space libraries package?
12:44<nathan>gsimmons, hoo and why there is no memtest86+ field?
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12:45<nathan>only memtest86...
12:45<MrFrood>sebastia1: dpkg-reconfigure console-data ?
12:45<gsimmons>nathan: It covers either or both, if installed.
12:45<sebastia1>MrFrood: trying ...
12:45<nathan>gsimmons, ok and the double ## mean something particular?
12:45<dpkg>Install either <nouveau> (no 3D support) or the appropriate proprietary driver package for your card. For GeForce 6xxx through to some GeForce 400 series, ask me about <nvidia dkms> or <nvidia m-a>; for older series, ask about <nvidia dkms-173xx> <nvidia dkms-96xx>. For oldstable, see <nvidia lenny>. packages are _not_ supported in #debian, please join #nvidia (
12:45<sebastia1>MrFrood: console-data is not installed. Install?
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12:46<sebastia1>Why doesn't just loadkeys work?
12:47<nathan>gsimmons, no i just need to reboot?
12:47<drc>jhutchins: If you read the question, you'd have seen that I did use "", and I was just asking for clarification on those instructions..
12:47<arya_>babilen, thank you for the heads up :)
12:47<MrFrood>sebastia1: I'd try it but up to you...
12:47<sebastia1>nathan: Yes. But you may still check menu.lst for a memtest86 boot entry first, if you like.
12:48<SynrG>drc: you didn't read the whole factoid, then.
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12:48<SynrG>drc: in particular, i don't think 173 is supported as prebuilt packages for download
12:48<babilen>arya_: Yeah, no problem. (btw, nick related to asoiaf/got?)
12:48<SynrG>drc: so see the referenced dkms factoid:
12:48<SynrG>!nvidia dkms-173xx
12:48<dpkg>For Squeeze users (GeForce 5xxx / GeForce FX GPUs supported). Ask me about <contrib> and <non-free sources>. "aptitude -r install linux-headers-2.6-`uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,'` nvidia-kernel-legacy-173xx-dkms && mkdir /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d ; echo -e 'Section "Device"\n\tIdentifier "My GPU"\n\tDriver "nvidia"\nEndSection' > /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nvidia.conf". Restart your system to enable the <nouveau> blacklist.
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12:49<nathan>sebastia1, i have a memtest86 entry i think :
12:49<nathan>it s ok?
12:49<arya_>babilen, nah, I 'm born in Iran x)
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12:50<nathan>i ve runned the update-grub command, and i got this :
12:50<sebastia1>nathan: No. remove the # sign, save and then reconfigure grub.
12:50<babilen>arya_: even better! Have a nice day :)
12:50<arya_>thank you x)
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12:51<gsimmons>sebastia1: No, the hash/pound/# is necessary for configuration file parsing. The only required change is false -> true.
12:51<sebastia1>nathan: Looks good.
12:51<sebastia1>Maybe the # sign shall stay there.
12:51<nathan>sebastia1, when i run update-config come back : DD
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12:51<nathan>the # sign come back
12:51<sebastia1>nathan: but that's not the boot entry. It is further down near the end of menu.lst.
12:52<nathan>sebastia1, something like that : ?
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12:53<sebastia1>nathan: Yep, that's it. Now try reboot.
12:53<nathan>sebastia1, i ll, thanks for your help :)
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13:06<XeonBloomfield>nathan: What with your notebook temperature?
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13:32<sebastia1>mjt: WRT xserver-xorg-video-sis ... did you mean the one in unstable?
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13:33<sney>judd: versions xserver-xorg-video-sis
13:33<judd>Package xserver-xorg-video-sis on i386 -- lenny: 1:0.10.0-1; squeeze: 1:0.10.3-1; wheezy: 1:0.10.3-1; sid: 1:0.10.3-3
13:34<sney>must have, since stable and testing have the same version
13:36<SynrG>sney: problem with your eyewear prescription? :)
13:37<SynrG>oh, duh
13:37<SynrG>judd still shows lenny
13:37<SynrG>problem with *my* prescription :)
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13:39<SynrG>too hard to read
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13:42<sebastia1>Hmm, this would upgrade a bunch of xorg packages and dependency conflict resolution suggests to remove xorg, xserver-xorg, xserver-xorg-video-all, xserver-xorg-video-nv.
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13:43<sney>sebastia1: xorg, xserver-xorg, xserver-xorg-video-all are metapackages
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13:44<sney>sebastia1: btw, you can declare LOCALE=C in front of any command to get the output in english, which helps for support channels
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13:45<sebastia1>It is LANG=C
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13:46<sney>er, yeah, you're right
13:46<sney>I always mix those two up
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13:48<sebastia1> aptitude -t unstable install xserver-xorg-video-sis
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13:49<sebastia1>I just want this machine to be stable as I wouldn't like to ride there to maintain it.
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13:52<sney>sebastia1: well, your most stable option would be to replace the sis gpu with something more modern. but that apt solution looks safe from where I'm sitting
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13:57<root_aLaN>I'm RooT : aLaN Hacker
13:57<sney>really now
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13:58<root_aLaN>Welcome ,,
13:58<root_aLaN>Any Hacker Here ?
13:58<sney>sometimes, but not the kind you're talking about
13:58<phillipsjk>sney: isn't the suggested solution to remove xorg?
13:58<sney>phillipsjk: it's a metapackage.
13:58<babilen>root_aLaN: We are, to some agree, all hacker. If you are interested in cracking this is definitely the wrong place.
13:58<root_aLaN>Becuse i'm Prince oF Hacking And Security ,, !
13:59<sney>phillipsjk: if it's removing the metapackage and not all the dependencies that's fine
13:59<phillipsjk>sney understood.
13:59<root_aLaN>oK Any Hotmail Admin ..?
14:00<babilen>root_aLaN: If you don't have a Debian related question I would suggest to look for another channel.
14:00<sebastia1>root_aLaN: This is the Debian support channel. If you need support, just ask. Don't bother with metaquestions.
14:00<dpkg>BackTrack is just an operating system. It does not magically turn you into a hacker. It is also offtopic in #debian. Please fulfill your fantasies in #backtrack-linux on
14:01<root_aLaN>aLaN HaCkEr WaS HeRe ,, aDD My Email : oR oR oR
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14:01<mjt>sebastia1: you can remove xserver-xorg-video-all first
14:02<mjt>sebastia1: i'd not try to upgrade (or remove) xserver-xorg and stuff like that just YET, maybe removing video-all (and a bunch of other unrelated video-* stuff) will help
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14:06<mjt>sebastia1: definitely worth to remove server-xorg-video-nv (and libdrm-nouveau1) together with xserver-xorg-video-al
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14:30<sebastia1>I'll be back :)
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14:38<project2501a>enterprise-y debian commercial :>
14:38<arya_>let me ask a noob question again XD how can I found on which serial bus a device is connected(I 've tried lscpi and dmesg, no luck)
14:39<sney>arya_: regular serial or usb?
14:39<sney>hmm. might be in /proc/bus somewhere.
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14:41<jhutchins_lt>arya_: serial bus or serial port?
14:41<arya_>oh sorry, port
14:41<arya_>(sorry sney )
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14:44<jhutchins_lt>arya_: setserial -g /dev/ttyS*
14:45<arya_>yeah, I messed up xD
14:45<jhutchins_lt>arya_: Connecting a device to a serial port usually has no effect on the system, you need to manually load a program that will access the device.
14:46<sebastia1>I made an xorg.conf with X -configure, added the monitor frequencies and now I'm back at 1028*768@85 Hz.
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14:50<chiku>to build kernel what is better ? fakeroot make-kpkg --initrd --append-to-version=-custom kernel_image kernel_headers or make-kpkg –-initrd --rootcmd fakeroot --revision=00 kernel_image kernel_headers
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14:51<SynrG>sebastia1: you can probably strip a good deal out of that and just retain the frequencies (i like minimalist configs :)
14:51<SynrG>X should figure out the rest automagically
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14:53<sebastia1>SynrG: Yeah, I'm just not sure what I can remove. I guess the monitor section alone will not work. Will a screen section with only the monitor be ok?
14:54<SynrG>wouldn't it just use the first monitor section?
14:54<SynrG>hmm. maybe you're right.
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14:55<SynrG>sebastia1: reading through xorg man page ...
14:55<SynrG>xorg.conf, even
14:56<timekiller>i use squeeze and i noticed that iceweasel freeze when i open a link in a new new tab (most of the time...) in fact it's not exactly a freeze, but a kind of "pause", the tab stay empty then after the link is loaded....
14:57<timekiller>anyone else noticed this ?
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14:57<sney>timekiller: old pc?
14:57<XeonBloomfield>timekiller: Here Iceweasel works great
14:57<SynrG>sebastia1: looks like a Screen is needed, binding together a Device and Monitor
14:58<SynrG>and that would be your minimal config. yeah
14:58<SynrG>worth a try :)
14:58<timekiller>sney: vaio centrino 1,8Ghrz
14:58<sebastia1>guy with yellow on white nick:) I'll try ...
14:59<XeonBloomfield>timekiller: It should work great on it
14:59<timekiller>i think too
14:59<XeonBloomfield>timekiller: Did you notice any other freezes?
14:59<sney>yeah, it should be ok unless you have a small amount of ram
14:59<timekiller>no XeonBloomfield
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14:59<timekiller>1500 MB for the ram
14:59<sney>ff 3.5 is slightly bloated but it shouldn't be pausing on new tab opens
15:00<sney>iceweasel 4.0 is available at if you want to use that
15:00<timekiller>it's not a real freeze, only one tab freeze
15:00<timekiller>the new one...
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15:01<XeonBloomfield>timekiller: Did you hear HDD "grr..." sound where it happened?
15:01<sney>timekiller: is it a new squeeze install? did this always happen or has it gotten worse over time?
15:01<timekiller>XeonBloomfield: hopefully not lol
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15:02<XeonBloomfield>timekiller: Install Iceweasel 4.0 from sney's link
15:02<timekiller>sney it's upgraded from lenny and i have to say that i'm still using the 2.6.26 kernel
15:02<XeonBloomfield>timekiller: Erhm... What?
15:02<timekiller>the 2.6.35 doesn't work...
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15:03<timekiller>sony vaio VGN FS315M
15:03<timekiller>my fan speed is too high
15:03<XeonBloomfield>timekiller: Squeeze uses 2.6.32-5 kernel version
15:03<timekiller>i know, but i upgraded from lenny
15:04<timekiller>and been forced to keep the old kernel
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15:04<timekiller>i desperatly wait a new kernel or something....
15:04<timekiller>but even in testing it's the same... so...
15:04<XeonBloomfield>timekiller: Paste here output of "sensors | grep 'CPU Temperature' "
15:05<timekiller>but maybe there is no link with my iceweasel stuff...
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15:05<jhutchins_lt>timekiller: WHY are you not using the 32 kernel?
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15:05<XeonBloomfield>jhutchins_lt: I'm think about it too...
15:05<timekiller>i said it already
15:05<jhutchins_lt>I missed it.
15:06<timekiller>fan speed problem
15:06<XeonBloomfield>timekiller: Paste output of that command... Maybe you have got overheating CPU
15:06<jhutchins_lt>Oh, I read that as a .35 problem.
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15:06<jhutchins_lt>timekiller: Which version of iceweasel?
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15:07<timekiller>it returns nothing for your command XeonBloomfield
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15:07<jhutchins_lt>,versions icewealsel
15:07<judd>Sorry, no package named 'icewealsel' was found in i386.
15:07<jhutchins_lt>,versions iceweasel
15:07<judd>Package iceweasel on i386 -- lenny: 3.0.6-3; lenny-security: 3.0.6-3; squeeze: 3.5.16-5; lenny-backports: 3.5.16-6~bpo50+1; squeeze-security: 3.5.16-6; sid: 3.5.18-1; wheezy: 3.5.18-1; experimental: 4.0-3
15:07<XeonBloomfield>jhutchins_lt: He upgraded to squeeze so "Package: iceweasel (3.5.16-6) [security]"
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15:08<jhutchins_lt>XeonBloomfield: Assuming he has updated and has security enabled.
15:08<jhutchins_lt>,veersions xulrunner
15:08<XeonBloomfield>timekiller: So?
15:08<jhutchins_lt>,versions xulrunner
15:08<judd>Sorry, no package named 'xulrunner' was found in i386.
15:08<jhutchins_lt>/reset --fingers
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15:09<judd>Available kernel versions are: sid: 2.6.38-2-686 (2.6.38-2); wheezy: 2.6.32-5-686 (2.6.32-31); squeeze: 2.6.32-5-686 (2.6.32-31); lenny-backports: 2.6.32-bpo.5-686 (2.6.32-30~bpo50+1); lenny: 2.6.26-2-686 (2.6.26-26lenny2)
15:09-!-dEhiN [] has joined #debian
15:09<XeonBloomfield>,versions gcc
15:09<judd>Package gcc on i386 -- lenny: 4:4.3.2-2; squeeze: 4:4.4.5-1; wheezy: 4:4.5.2-2; sid: 4:4.5.2-5; experimental: 4:4.6.0-3exp1
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15:10<timekiller>XeonBloomfield: so, i wait a new kernel
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15:10<XeonBloomfield>timekiller: Did you selected new version of kernel in GRUB list?
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15:11<timekiller>and the tab stuff is just a bit weird
15:11-!-wissem [~localhost@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:11<timekiller>i uninstalled it so....
15:11<timekiller>but i don't get you with GRUB...
15:13<timekiller>when a new kernel will be available in backports ?
15:13<timekiller>any idea ?
15:13<jhutchins_lt>timekiller: See how many bugreports there are on .38
15:14<timekiller>i gonna look
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15:19<nexxen>set theme tzu
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15:24<sebastia1>my xorg.conf:
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15:31<nathan>Hey :) after booting on memtest86, there is a file created which contain the diagnostic?
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15:32<sebastia1>nathan: don't think so.
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15:32<sebastia1>but you can suspend scrolling with space and resume with enter.
15:32<nathan>sebastia1, because it rebooted by himself and i was away from keyboard
15:33-!-amphi [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:33<nathan>so didn't see anything... :)
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15:34<sebastia1>nathan: it doesn't normally reboot.
15:34<nathan>In fact i got some powercut and colling problems so i wanted to make sure that was not memory related
15:34<nathan>sebastia1, in fact, i m about 3% and it come back on the boot screen automatically...
15:35<sebastia1>sebastia1: Maybe your computer reboots due to a fault.
15:35-!-phoenix [] has joined #debian
15:35<nathan>sebastia1, maybe is about my powercut troubles?
15:36<nathan>because my laptop blow like crazy during the process...
15:36<XeonBloomfield>nathan: Hello!
15:36<nathan>XeonBloomfield, :)
15:36<XeonBloomfield>nathan: What result of memtest you get?
15:36<nathan>XeonBloomfield, ho i m not supposed to smile sorry
15:36<nathan>XeonBloomfield, something weird happened during the memtest86+ process
15:36<XeonBloomfield>nathan: Memory problems?
15:37<XeonBloomfield>nathan: What happened?
15:37<nathan>XeonBloomfield, i boot on memtest86+ and after 3% of processing, it came back on the boot screen automatically... leaving the process
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15:38<XeonBloomfield>nathan: One time or every try?
15:38<nathan>XeonBloomfield, i ve tried two times, first time, my laptop powercuted and the last time, leaving at 3%
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15:39<XeonBloomfield>nathan: argh...
15:39<nathan>XeonBloomfield, i really don't know what to do :(
15:39<XeonBloomfield>nathan: Really interesting
15:39<nathan>XeonBloomfield, interesting... yes
15:39<nathan>i m just destroying my laptop but yeah, interesting...
15:40<XeonBloomfield>nathan: You can try to do it on "cold" notebook some day
15:40<nathan>XeonBloomfield, i m sure there are some cooling trouble cause when i start my computer, the temp is about 66C
15:40-!-foolano [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:40<nathan>and it increase until 77
15:41<nathan>so there is something wrong!
15:41<nathan>even if i do nothing
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15:41<XeonBloomfield>nathan: There can be option that memtest just failed itself... Error at 3% of it's tests will cause that you will not be able to use your notebook stable...
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15:42<nathan>XeonBloomfield, yeah...
15:43<XeonBloomfield>nathan: Error at 3% of memtest's tests will probably means that your notebook is totally unusable, but I think it is usable... Are you writing from it?
15:44<nathan>XeonBloomfield, geuh?
15:44<nathan>XeonBloomfield, my laptop is usable
15:44<XeonBloomfield>nathan: So you see...
15:44<XeonBloomfield>nathan: Memtest can fail too...
15:44<nathan>but it s annoying, i can't watch video properly
15:44<nathan>can't run make
15:45<nathan>it make so much noise
15:45<XeonBloomfield>nathan: Hahahahahh...
15:45<XeonBloomfield>nathan: Sorry for thath laugh...
15:45<nathan>XeonBloomfield, but yeah, usable
15:45<jhutchins_lt>nathan: I found new fans on ebay.
15:45<nathan>it s laughing, i want to test linux and it burned my laptop
15:45<Queops>Hey there. I just have a fresh install of debian.. however on software center I can't remove any application why?
15:45<XeonBloomfield>nathan: Windows don't do these problems?
15:46<jhutchins_lt>nathan: You should do some searching about your laptop and linux. It's unlikely to be linux' fault.
15:46<nathan>XeonBloomfield, this problems came with my linux installation
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15:46<XeonBloomfield>Queops: Why not?
15:46<Queops>I wish I knew
15:46<jhutchins_lt>XeonBloomfield: More like windows didn't mention these problems.
15:46<XeonBloomfield>Queops: Software Center > Installed Software > big button called "Remove"
15:46<nathan>jhujhiti, of course it s maybe just hardware problem and changing fans will solve them
15:46<Queops>Tried different applications
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15:47<Queops>Mainly games
15:47<Queops>Doesnt do anything
15:47<XeonBloomfield>Queops: Oh...
15:47<nathan>maybe my fans are just down
15:47-!-zeroedout [] has joined #debian
15:47<XeonBloomfield>nathan: Probably there are just down :P
15:47<Queops>Remove... letters go grey then back again available to click
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15:48<XeonBloomfield>Queops: Did you have any dialog to enter your root's password?
15:48<nathan>There are some stuff you put under your laptop and that blow, i don't know how you call this in english but i think you got the idea x)
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15:48<Queops>No I didn't
15:48<nathan>maybe the key?
15:49<XeonBloomfield>nathan: Yesterday you wrote "batterie"... Can you say what language are you using everyday?
15:49<SynrG>Queops: seems you're not alone
15:49-!-jibel [] has joined #debian
15:49<Queops>I'm using the stable versioning
15:49<nathan>XeonBloomfield, i m french :)
15:49-!-mats [] has joined #debian
15:49<Queops>I was hoping the system would work flawlessly T_T arghasdhuasdh08qwh3dhfj28i3j
15:49<SynrG>!dbugs 617288
15:49<XeonBloomfield>nathan: I think that you are french...
15:50<dpkg>#617288:I[software-center] software-center: doesn't install or deinstall any software (); Mon, 07 Mar 2011 20:09:01 UTC []
15:50<Queops>: ((((((
15:50<SynrG>Queops: to be honest, probably 99% of people here do not use software-center
15:50<nathan>XeonBloomfield, my english is that bad? : O
15:50<Queops>I know but still.
15:50<SynrG>so you live in a mythical land of no bugs? :)
15:50-!-mats [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:50<XeonBloomfield>nathan: No... Only one think that I remember that you failed to write is "batterie" :P
15:50<Queops>No but you should expect this stuff to work on stable
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15:51<nathan>XeonBloomfield, yeah yeah x)) what s is the english word then? : D
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15:51<XeonBloomfield>nathan: But I'm not English speaking man in everyday use ;)
15:51<Queops>Anyhow I use the terminal for most of the install but I cba to go look for the games packages when i have a nice list of whats installed..
15:51<nathan>XeonBloomfield, hoo yeah of course, so simple :)
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15:51<Queops>When I say games I say all software..
15:52<Queops>Just thought wierd the bloody remove wasnt working lol
15:52<SynrG>!dbugs 609766
15:52<dpkg>#609766:I[software-center] software-center: Won't uninstall some packages (); Wed, 12 Jan 2011 11:15:05 UTC []
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15:52<XeonBloomfield>Queops: Look at "System > Administration > Synaptic Package Manager" it lists installed and not installed packages like you want ;)
15:52<SynrG>a duplicate report?
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15:52<Queops>XeonBloomfield, yes I know, I just felt sad lol
15:52<SynrG>if so, it was known prior to the release of squeeze, but only just barely before
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15:53<SynrG>and priority "important" only, so not RC
15:53<Queops>Ok thanks for the clarifications anyhow
15:53<SynrG>i guess that close to the release, not enough time to do anything about it :/
15:53<Queops>Oh and why doesnt the keyring get unlocked when you have automatic login?
15:54<SynrG>because logging in is not doing something privileged
15:54<SynrG>here's a scenario. you login ... you walk off for coffee
15:54<XeonBloomfield>Queops: Exactly like wrote SynrG
15:54<SynrG>officemate comes by and does nasty things
15:54<SynrG>you don't want that.
15:54<Queops>I never login and leave the PC haha
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15:54<XeonBloomfield>Queops: And someone get your PC with full rights
15:54<Queops>I always lock it
15:54<SynrG>great for you with impeccable habits. not so great for the avg user
15:55<Queops>I suppose thats a fair point yes
15:55<phillipsjk>Queops, what is the point of an autmatic login then?
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15:55<XeonBloomfield>Queops: I'm pretty up sure that there were situations when you didn't lock it
15:55<Queops>Being lazy :P
15:55<Queops>I really like the debians I have at home
15:55<Queops>to have autologin
15:56<phillipsjk>With an automatic login, a nefarious person simply has to reboot the machine.
15:56<Queops>So I dont have to input a pass so it loads totally.
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15:56<Queops>Well dont worry about that I can live with it
15:56<Queops>(puttin a pass)
15:56<SynrG>for home use, yes. i have a single system in the livingroom setup to autologin. this user has no special privileges and is called "movies". it exists to access movies and play them, mostly
15:56<SynrG>in certain special circumstances autologin is quite handy
15:57<XeonBloomfield>SynrG: You are LiveCD Dev so... Can you say me if Debian (or Debian-based distributions) is used (are used) in large amount in e.g. offices, etc.?
15:57<jhutchins_lt>It's kind of pointless to argue against it, it's an available feature. The question is how to auto-login to the keyring. Can you do it by setting a blank password?
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15:57*phillipsjk was questioning religious xlock use+ auto-login
15:57<SynrG>XeonBloomfield: can't say. but look at
15:57<XeonBloomfield>SynrG: I asking if it is not only single cases, but normal work day
15:57<SynrG>XeonBloomfield: i think this is an indication we're making an impact.
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15:58<SynrG>phillipsjk: yes. religious lock + autologin seem to work contrary to each other :)
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15:58<jhutchins_lt>XeonBloomfield: Debian tends to be used more as servers or by IT people than general office use so far.
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15:58<Queops>Really? I had the idea people used more centos
15:59<jhutchins_lt>XeonBloomfield: Most large installations will tend to use one of the commercial distros like RedHat, SuSE, or even Ubuntu.
15:59<XeonBloomfield>jhutchins_lt: I have got Debian powered servers ;)
15:59<SynrG>Canaima aims to be specifically designed for office users in the Venezuelan national government, as a response to a presidential decree that prioritizes the use of free technologies and determines a transition process.
15:59<jhutchins_lt>XeonBloomfield: On the other hand, debian is a common platform for LTSP in educational settings.
15:59<SynrG>^^ from among debian-live's downstream users
15:59<XeonBloomfield>jhutchins_lt: Of course I have it on my Desktop and Notebook...
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15:59<XeonBloomfield>SynrG: That is interesting
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16:00<Queops>Debian is great
16:00<jhutchins_lt>I have one box that's still Kubuntu, but I never use it.
16:00<XeonBloomfield>I don't know what you think about that, but I love using Debian ;)
16:00<Queops>What I feel like killing though is how little room you have to resize windows on GNOME..
16:00<Queops>it's like a pixel...
16:00<Queops>In most apps.
16:01<Queops>And it ticks me off sometimes, real gymnastics to resize.
16:01<XeonBloomfield>Queops: Heh... You have got big number of problems like I see...
16:01<Queops>Big? nah
16:02<Queops>Im here to talk also :))
16:02<phillipsjk>Queops, I would be surprised if you can't inrease that. Not everbody has coarse pixels.
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16:02<Queops>I can? Please I beg you how?
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16:09<SynrG>Queops: thickness of the border?
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16:10<SynrG>Queops: you mean you find it hard to click on the edge of the window to pull it and resize it because it's too narrow? or something else?
16:10<Queops>Yes you are right hehe
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16:10<Queops>hard to pull yes
16:10<SynrG>i'm sure that's configurable somehow
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16:10<phillipsjk>part of the problew is tha Gnome tries to be "simple" by hiding options.
16:11<Queops>I didn't really know it was configurable
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16:15<SynrG>Queops: i can mess around with it and see if i can figure it out (or you can :)
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16:15<SynrG>but i have to boot a virtual system with gnome on it first
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16:15<Queops>Haha you dont use gnome?
16:15<SynrG>sadly, my netbook's processor has no hardware virtualization support, so it's slow
16:15<SynrG>nope. LXDE
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16:15<Queops>Ah nice hehe
16:15<phillipsjk>So far the best suggestion I have for you is System > Preferences > Appearance > Theame tab and choose one with a larger window border.
16:15<Queops>ILl try to find it also
16:15<SynrG>a better use of system resources for this class of machine
16:15<Queops>Thanks for helping out
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16:16<Queops>Definitely Syn.
16:16<SynrG>Queops: see phillipsjk's comment above.
16:16<Queops>I like LXDE also. But dont use it because I dont need it
16:16<Queops>Yeh I did see :))
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16:17<phillipsjk>There is a Customize button on that tab that lets you choose the Window boarder from any of the avialable theames.
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16:17<Queops>Thanks for the headsup phillipsjk
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16:17<Queops>: )))
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16:18<timekiller>same tab problem here:
16:19<timekiller>but for me it's more about 3-4 sec
16:19<phillipsjk>But I don't see how te make the borders arbitrarily large. The DPI settings of the monitor may effect that as well, but "Screen resolution" preferneces don't seem to let you set that.
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16:23<Queops>Maybe some hidden file editing config phillipsjk
16:23<phillipsjk>I suspect you have to write your own theme :)
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16:27<phillipsjk>For screen resolution, it is probably autodetected these days: the screen tells the computer how large it is. But peoplo with poor eyesight may want to use a higher font resolution; magnifying everything.
16:28<jhutchins_lt>It might be useful at some point to ask Queops what his current resolution IS.
16:31<Queops>I have this issue in every gnome
16:31<Queops>not issue... annoyance..
16:31<Queops>be it 1920x1080 or 1024
16:31<Queops>Some applications you can notice you can resize easily
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16:31<Queops>I believe firefox etc..
16:32<Queops>popular ones
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16:33<phillipsjk>Queops: since that link says the themes use pixels only, the number of pixels per inch may be more relevant.
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16:34<SynrG>Queops: i just played with a few themes: industrial, nuvola, lush. these seem to have sufficiently wide borders.
16:34<Queops>He mentions a nice tip though
16:34<Queops>Alt + Middle
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16:35<Queops>Syn doies the default one seems easy to grasp to you?
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16:36<m1m1s>can anyone help me with backtrack r2?
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16:37<dpkg>BackTrack is not Debian and is not supported in #debian (ask me about <based on debian>). Try or #backtrack-linux on instead. BackTrack is a Linux distribution based on <Ubuntu> Intrepid (as of BackTrack 4), previously <SLAX>. Derived from merging two penetration-testing distributions: WHAX (formerly WHOPPIX) and Auditor Security Linux.
16:37<SynrG>Queops: the nick is SynrG. i won't necessarily see comments directed towards me if you abbreviate
16:37<SynrG>(multitasking here :)
16:37<Queops>SynrG, more specifically, the bottom right corner where we usually resize both ways at same time
16:37<Queops>Yeh sorry about that
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16:38<SynrG>tbh, i rarely resize. i mostly maximize.
16:38<SynrG>so i don't have this problem
16:38<phillipsjk>Queops, If you can see the border but just can't click on it, you may need to adjust your mouse sensitivity.
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16:38<SynrG>also, i spend 99% of my day in a terminal
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16:39<Queops>Haha I see
16:39<Queops>You guys sure seem advanced
16:40<SynrG>well. warped to a certain degree by my interests and job. i'm a software developer. so i don't necessarily interact with my computer like the "average user" (whatever that is :)
16:40<phillipsjk>THere are peoepl with a range of experience here.
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16:41<Queops>Certainly, I code myself, but not much.
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16:43<Queops>For example, Character map from acessories is one of those windows that has a tiny area to resize on the bottom right corner
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16:44<Queops>Search for files is similar
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16:46<kristian>Hi, I connected NTFS HDD to my PC ( Debian squeeze, KDE) but I'm not able to access it. I'm getting ".freedesktop.Hal.Device.Volume.PErmissionDenied: REfusing to mount device /dev/sda1 for uid=1000"
16:46<babilen>Queops: For what its worth, tiling window managers like awesomewm, wmii and xmonad take the work out of rearranging windows. You might want to try bluetile (xmonad for Gnome) to get an idea:
16:46<kristian>Can someone help me regarding this
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16:46<babilen>Queops: I use awesomewm and never deal with resizing windows ... see if you like it.
16:46<Queops>Cool, I'll look into it!
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16:47<Queops>VEry cool, it resizes accordingly occupying all space
16:47<Queops>Very interesting, first time i saw this
16:47<babilen>exactly -- and there are different layouts available
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16:48<homaar>try to mount as root from commandline
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16:52<PadawanLearner>i was just going through debian install manual and found an inconsistency
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16:53<PadawanLearner>where do i report it?
16:53<Queops>babilen, so awesomwm replaces gnome?
16:53<babilen>PadawanLearner: Report it against installation-guide
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16:53<PadawanLearner>section -> D.3.4.1. Create device files
16:54<kristian>It seems it's mounted now but I get message "Could not enter "folder dev/sda1" now
16:54<babilen>Queops: Yes, bluetile hooks into gnome (it replaces the gnome window manager matacity)
16:54<Queops>But is awesomewm preferable over blue? What kind of tasks you usually do?
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16:55<phillipsjk>gnome,kde, and xfce are "desktop environments" that try to do more than a standard Window manager.
16:55<PadawanLearner>babilen: :)
16:55<babilen>Queops: awesomewm is not related to Gnome at all. A lot of people find it too frugal and you mainly use your keyboard to control it. Test it and keep it if you like it. You have a million of choices :)
16:55<Queops>I see. Thanks there : ))
16:55<babilen>PadawanLearner: bug surprise that isn't it? :)
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16:56<babilen>PadawanLearner: *big* surprise
16:57<homaar>mount /dev/asd /mnt (dont forget the slash!)
16:58<Queops>Just curious, what you guys use for a browser?
16:58<Queops>On deb
16:58<homaar>lynx :>
16:59<phillipsjk>!tell Queops about off-topic
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17:00<Queops>Oh right sorry
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17:05<PadawanLearner>Queops: links quite often, i even recomend it to OWA users
17:07<PadawanLearner>babilen: actually i don't know if MAKEDEV is supposed to be there
17:07<PadawanLearner>if it is then the culprit should be debootstrap or some base package
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17:08<PadawanLearner>Queops: try it, you'll be surprised, LOL
17:08<PadawanLearner>but for a real world daily basis i just stick to iceweasel/firefox
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17:49<PadawanLearner>funny though
17:50<PadawanLearner>i allway's find some issues regarding
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17:50<PadawanLearner>grub install
17:50<PadawanLearner>when i had it going nicelly grub2 poped up
17:51<PadawanLearner>and now i allways spend some time debating bootloader install
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17:51<PadawanLearner>but the install manual is a bit poor on that subject
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18:03<winsen1>hello everybody
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18:04<winsen1>deos anyone know what the equivalent of adob writer in debian, in order to modify pdf file? thank you
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18:05<project2501a>winsen1: docbook2pdf
18:05<project2501a>edit your document in pdf
18:05<project2501a> you can also disassemble a pdf. i also think that libreoffice opens up pdfs
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18:06<winsen1>project250la>thank very mutch for your quick answer, can i also protect my pdf file on modification?
18:06<PadawanLearner>winsen1: i think there is and pdfmod app
18:08<winsen1>pdfmod app? is it the same one soft ? i mean docbook2pdf
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18:08<tsoliman>How is edit-protection in PDFs implemented exactly? Isn't that some sort of DRM?
18:09<PadawanLearner>tsoliman: i think there is a basic sigature process with certificates is cool
18:09<winsen1>in pdf writer you can do it ,
18:09<themill>!edit pdf
18:09<dpkg>Editing PDFs isn't that easy as they were more-or-less designed to be a read-only document format. The <pdftk> package allows you to split and merge PDFs, as does the "pdfsam" package. The pdfedit package provides a powerful but quirky PDF editor. OpenOffice draw is also able to import PDFs as text/drawing objects which can allow some editing/commenting to be done. Also ask me about <fill pdf forms>, <pdf>.
18:09<winsen1>sorry i mean adob writer
18:09<PadawanLearner>winsen1: wine adobe writer...
18:10<winsen1><PadawanLearner> ok thank you, who is the best one?
18:10<PadawanLearner>winsen1: there will be huge differences between apps from windows to linux
18:10<winsen1>i think so
18:10<PadawanLearner>some for better, other for worst
18:11<PadawanLearner>it all comes down to sticking to your objectives, not the apps or behaviours
18:11<PadawanLearner>ask yourself: what do i want to do, really...
18:11<tsoliman>PadawanLearner: sorry for the off-topic but doesn't that mean the client has to say "no you can't edit this".. signitures don't really protect from editing ..
18:11<PadawanLearner>import pdf? change pdf?
18:12<PadawanLearner>tsoliman: think pgp
18:12<PadawanLearner>the certificate is used to digitally sing the file and encript it
18:12<PadawanLearner>but as far as i can remmember, i think all are options
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18:13<winsen1>i need doing import, editing, change pdf
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18:14<themill>,info pdfedit
18:14<judd>Package pdfedit (utils, optional) in squeeze/i386: Editor for manipulating PDF documents. Version: 0.4.5-1; Size: 2065.8k; Installed: 7036k; Homepage:; Screenshot:
18:14<jhutchins_lt>winsen1: The pdf format was designed to be uneditable.
18:14<themill>winsen1: ^^ that's as good as it gets
18:15<jhutchins_lt>winsen1: You're supposed to have the source document and edit it, and if you don't have the source you're not supposed to change it.
18:15<jhutchins_lt>winsen1: Several packages try to do it, some pdf's just can't be changed.
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18:15<jhutchins_lt>winsen1: Even with Adobe tools.
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18:16<winsen1>i'd like create pdf file and protect it
18:16<winsen1>i think, if the pdffile is not protected , you can modify it as you want
18:17<jhutchins_lt>winsen1: Not always.
18:17<jhutchins_lt>winsen1: However, openoffice has a direct export function, and most installations will have a pdf "printer". You can use various options to try to protect it.
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18:18<phillipsjk>jhutchins, Shouldn't it always be possilbe to add anther layer? maybe not good enought for blacking out documents.
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18:19<winsen1><jhutchins_lt> yes i am agree with you, to create pdf file is easier, with oppenoffice or pdf printer, but i need edit it or modify pdf file and protect it
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18:20<tharkun>Gentlemen i need to make a standard Win/Mac compliant zip file. What program should i use?
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18:21<phillipsjk>What do you mean by "protect'? Protect from editing, but retain the ability to edit?
18:21<sney>tharkun: infozip
18:21<themill>tharkun: "zip"?
18:21<phillipsjk>there is a zip utility
18:21<winsen1><phillipsjk>yes i do
18:22<sney>er, yeah, it's just called 'zip' isn't it
18:22<sney>why do I remember it being infozip
18:22<tsoliman>winsen1: I don't think you can "protect" PDFs in linux
18:22<sney>if you want to protect a text file from being edited, turn it into an image
18:23<tharkun>themill, sney thanks for kicking my stupidity off
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18:23<sney>and put some squigglies behind the text so it's hard to tamper
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18:24<tharkun>winsen1: take a look at pdftk it might be the tool you are looking for
18:24<winsen1>sney>even if you change it to image, you can modify it to pdf file
18:25<winsen1><tharkun>hope is the good one, should i install it?
18:25<phillipsjk>winsen1, You realise that DRM can never work without breaking the principle of "cause and effect" don't you?
18:26<tharkun>winsen1: you can install it. No big deal Then if you really want to protect it you might as well sign the file with your personal pgp key so it can be later verified that it was not tampered with
18:26<arschharry>DRM suckz!
18:26<jhutchins_lt>winsen1: The intended method is to edit the original and re-create the pdf.
18:26<babilen>I honestly think that winsen1 actually want to use adobe acrobot X on Windows or OSX -- Another thing would be to talk about the PDF creation process itself. The pipeline might not be optimal for Linux
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18:27<cannesahs>do normal user have way to find out if shutdown is going on or under schedule currently?
18:27-!-mode/#debian [+o themill] by ChanServ
18:27-!-mode/#debian [-b *!*] by themill
18:27-!-mode/#debian [-o themill] by themill
18:27<winsen1><jhutchins_lt> hi, sorry i don't understand what you mean
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18:28<jhutchins_lt>winsen1: You create the original document in some editor format, then create the pdf from that document. If you need to change the pdf, you change the original document and create a new pdf. That's how Adobe's tools work.
18:28<winsen1><phillipsjk> yes i do
18:28<babilen>winsen1: Where are those PDFs from? How are they created? Why don't you edit the source and recreate the PDFs?
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18:30<tsoliman>The problem is that DRM is like giving you the key to house and saying "don't move any furniture" .. I cannot lock you out of my house because you need to see it and use it but not "Edit" it so I give you the keys :)
18:30<winsen1><babilen>hi, that's why i 'd like to do, i am just asking if anyone knows witch tool you suggest me,
18:31<jhutchins_lt>winsen1: A pdf is meant to be a virtual printout.
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18:31<babilen>winsen1: well, in order for me to give good advice you need to answer the first two questions
18:31<jhutchins_lt>winsen1: If you had a printed document you wanted to change, you'd change the word processing file and print it again.
18:31<tsoliman>jhutchins_lt: so is a postscript document right?
18:32<tharkun>winsen1: if you are trying to alter the pdf you can but it is a heck of a lot more work than to recreate it using the original tools you used to originally make it
18:32<jhutchins_lt>tsoliman: Not really, postscript is intended to be a directly printable file.
18:32<jhutchins_lt>tsoliman: In the sense that it's not intended as a format for a file editor, yes.
18:32<phillipsjk>tsoliman, PDF was simplified, them made complex again with JavaSrcipt support.
18:32<winsen1>babilen>the pdfs are mine, i d like to create it, private work
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18:33<babilen>winsen1: how do you create them?
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18:33<jhutchins_lt>winsen1: I suggest that you start looking at various pdf files with a text or binary editor.
18:33<PadawanLearner>winsen1: in that case try openoffice and save .odf and .pdf
18:33<cthuluh>if you don't want to share your work why would we want to share our knowledge?
18:33<tsoliman>jhutchins_lt: which is why tools like Adobe Acrobat (not reader) baffle me
18:34<babilen>tsoliman: you know you want to buy distiller server!
18:34*tsoliman looks up distiller
18:34<jhutchins_lt>It's been a while (haven't used windows since 2004), but as I recall even the adobe tools that create only pdf output and allow you to create and "edit" the pdf's use internal file formats that are NOT pdf for the editable files.
18:35<tsoliman>dpkg knows what acrobat is but not distiller :)
18:35<dpkg>tsoliman: okay
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18:35<jhutchins_lt>tsoliman: distiller isn't available for linux.
18:35<cthuluh>am I the only moron here that feels disgusted about all that DRM / intellectual property crap? *sigh*
18:35<streuner_>dpkg, listauth tsoliman
18:35<dpkg>factoid author list by 'tsoliman' (1): knows what acrobat.
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18:35<streuner_>dpkg, forget knows what acrobat
18:35<dpkg>i forgot knows what acrobat, streuner_
18:35<tsoliman>cthuluh: no we all are but we wanna keep it on-topic :)
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18:36<tsoliman>streuner_: was I programming the bot or something?
18:36<streuner_>tsoliman: yeah
18:37<streuner_>you made a factoid
18:37<tsoliman>streuner_: sorry
18:37<babilen>tsoliman: no problem, that happens
18:37<babilen>cthuluh: you are not
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18:38<tsoliman>I think I speak for all of us when I say all of us morons in here feel that way about DRM / IPC
18:38<winsen1><babilen>some with scan, and another with oppen office,
18:38<streuner_>tsoliman: dpkg (bot) <some text> is/are blahblah is creating a factoid
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18:39<tsoliman>streuner_: may I try creating a real one?
18:39<PadawanLearner>time to reboot... brb
18:40<streuner_>tsoliman: why not? :-)
18:41<tsoliman>dpkg: Adobe Distiller Server is non-free software by Adobe that converts PostScript to PDF using a server. There is no linux version of it
18:41<dpkg>tsoliman: okay
18:41<tsoliman>!Adobe Distiller Server
18:41<dpkg>rumour has it, adobe distiller server is non-free software by Adobe that converts PostScript to PDF using a server. There is no linux version of it
18:41<tsoliman>!adobe distiller
18:44<themill>dpkg Adobe Distiller Server =~ s/There is no linux version of it/For similar functionality in Debian, ask me about the <cups-pdf> package that will give you a virtual printer that accepts postscript and creates PDF files./
18:44<dpkg>themill: OK
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18:44<tsoliman>!Adobe Distiller Server
18:44<dpkg>i heard adobe distiller server is non-free software by Adobe that converts PostScript to PDF using a server. For similar functionality in Debian, ask me about the <cups-pdf> package that will give you a virtual printer that accepts postscript and creates PDF files.
18:45<cthuluh>I didn't follow closely, but isn't that functionality also provided by ps2pdf?
18:45<dpkg>You can add a virtual printer to your system with the "cups-pdf" package. Through the cups web interface (http://localhost:631) you can then add a new "Virtual PDF Printer" using the Generic->CUPS_PDF printer driver.
18:45*tsoliman goes and does that
18:45<themill>tsoliman: you can "/msg dpkg cups-pdf" too, btw.
18:45<winsen1>thanks you for all, i am testing pdfmod
18:45<dpkg>[cups] Common UNIX Printing System. CUPS provides a portable printing layer for UNIX-based operating systems and supports the Internet Printing Protocol. To install, ask me about <cups setup>. See also <debug cups>. ##cups on
18:45<tsoliman>themill: I have been :)
18:46<jhutchins_lt>winsen1: You can also run your scanned PDF through an OCR program and edit the resulting text.
18:46<tsoliman>themill: I did it here to make a point
18:46<dpkg>Portable Document Format (PDF) is a file format for document exchange, designed by Adobe as a replacement for <PostScript>. Free software to view PDFs include <xpdf>, <kpdf>, <okular>, <evince> (all poppler based) and gv, kghostview (ghostscript-based, much slower!). Adobe Reader (acroread) is available from debian-multimedia in non-free; ask me about <dmm>. See also <edit pdf>, <pdf writer>.
18:46<themill>cthuluh: similar, except that cups-pdf allows you to create a pdf from any application that can print without first saving to postscript etc. It uses pdf2ps (or perhaps pdftops) internally.
18:46<streuner_>lee_: please use "/msg dpkg <factoid> instead
18:47<cthuluh>themill: I see
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18:47<cthuluh>some apps already provide this (like iceweasel or many gtk based ones)
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18:48<winsen1><jhutchins_lt>thank you , but what how can i modify the file and protect it?
18:48<themill>cthuluh: sure, but like any library, rather than each app implementing this separately, you could alternatively do it in one place...
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18:48<lee_>streuner_: Thanks, I´m just looking/showing what info is there about pdf. My thinking was that it would be nice if things like telling dpkg about cups-pdf or Distiller would lead to that asking about pdf or cpus would also point the new information. However, that would probably not so easy to accomplish ...
18:49<winsen1><jhutchins_lt>whatever, i ll try and i let you know, thank you
18:49<tsoliman>I used to be able to do access zeus.olympus:631 (olympus is my domain and zeus is the host) and now it says 400 Bad Request but zeus:631 works .. This changed when I went Lenny->Squeeze
18:49<lee_>Sorry for my bad typing ... Is there a way to see everything dpkg knows about?
18:50<streuner_>lee_: just use listkeys or/and listvals then
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18:50<streuner_>lee_: /msg dpkg listvals pdf
18:50<jhutchins_lt>winsen1: There really isn't a way to prevent a file from being changed, but you can protect it from being changed without someone knowing by digitally signing it using pgp.
18:51-!-mode/#debian [+l 467] by debhelper
18:51<lee_>thanks, this dpkg things is interesting :)
18:51<jhutchins_lt>winsen1: For every way I can tell you to protect a PDF from change, I know a work-around that will let me change it.
18:51<tsoliman>winsen1: What signing it will achieve is nothing more than "this is no longer the original document" when someone changes it
18:51<jhutchins_lt>winsen1: It's just a matter of how hard I want to work
18:51<tsoliman>if you're afraid of people stealing your work, don't give it to them
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18:53<jhutchins_lt>(Then again I'm pretty good at altering hardcopy documents too.)
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18:57<tsoliman>Can anyone help me with cups admin page from another host?
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18:59<lee_>What´s wrong with the admin page?
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19:00<tsoliman>from another machine: if I go to the ip :631 it works
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19:00<tsoliman>but if I use a hostname that resolves to that IP it doesn't
19:01-!-mode/#debian [+l 459] by debhelper
19:01<lee_>afair that´s a setting in the cpus config that has to do with access rights
19:01<tsoliman>yes so it matters what the hostname is?
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19:01<lee_>afair yes --- perhaps it´s even a bug
19:02<tsoliman>it is set to allow @LOCAL
19:02<lee_>I used to use the IP instead of checking it out any further
19:02<tsoliman>not sure what @LOCAL resolves to
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19:02<tsoliman>apache is behaving the same way
19:02<tsoliman>it's as if something changed with how the host sees itself
19:03<lee_>see man cupsd.conf ... looks as if you can specify what´s considered as @LOCAL
19:03<PadawanLearner>could anyone sugest some nice irc client setup? i'm afraid mine is quite outdated and i do need some freshen up
19:03<lee_>PadawanLearner, I´m finding Konversation quite nice
19:03<tsoliman>PadawanLearner: CLI or GUI?
19:04<PadawanLearner>tsoliman: i'm using irssi, but open for a change
19:04<tsoliman>irssi text mode or irssi-gui?
19:04<PadawanLearner>text, didn't even knew there was a gui around, hehehe
19:04<tsoliman>PadawanLearner: what feature do you need that's not there?
19:05<lee_>tsoliman: hm, interesting, man cupsd.conf doesn´t say what´s considered as @LOCAL, and apparently you can´t specify what it should be
19:05<tsoliman>lee_: right
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19:05<tsoliman>"local interfaces"
19:05<PadawanLearner>tsoliman: it's more like what new features could i enjoy that you 'power users' are using
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19:06<PadawanLearner>i haven't seen anything new for years in this fiels
19:06<winsen1><jhutchins_lt>i am testing with pdfmod it didn't work, i can not modify my pdffile!!
19:06<lee_>tsoliman: Who says "local interfaces"?
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19:06<tsoliman>PadawanLearner: I use irssi for text mode and chatzilla-without-firefox for GUI
19:07<PadawanLearner>tsoliman: any nice feature that stands out?
19:07<PadawanLearner>on chatzilla?
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19:08<lee_>tsoliman: Cool ... And trying to access the page on another host doesn´t happen over a local interface, obviously :)
19:08<tsoliman>PadawanLearner: nothing irssi doesn't have besides being able to render http links as a link
19:08<tsoliman>lee_: and yet accessing it by IP works??
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19:08<lee_>tsoliman: bummer ...
19:08<lee_>tsoliman: That, I´d call a bug.
19:08<lee_>tsoliman: That, I´d call a bug.
19:08*jhutchins_lt believes he mentioned that the tools don't always work.
19:08<tsoliman>you don't have to tell me twice :)
19:09<tsoliman>lee_: what does local interface even mean? from an IP that is in your same subnet
19:09<lee_>tsoliman: Unless there´s some other option allowing access by IP?
19:09<jhutchins_lt>Perhaps lee_ has messed with his /hosts file.
19:09<lee_>tsoliman: I´d consider a "local interface" as one that is, well, local ... meaning it´s on the same host ...
19:10<lee_>... like a network card physically installed
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19:10<tsoliman>lee_: how else can you reach a host ?? :P
19:11<lee_>... But then, you could argue that accessing a host via a network card that is physically installed on that host would always mean accessing it via a local interface.
19:11<tsoliman>jhutchins_lt: I am having the problem actually .. and yes I did mess with my hosts file
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19:11<lee_>tsoliman: So I guess we would have to consider the source from where the access is made.
19:11<lee_>!local interface
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19:13<lee_>dpkg: A local interface is an interface physically installed in a host.
19:13<dpkg>okay, lee_
19:13<lee_>!local interface
19:13<dpkg>[local interface] an interface physically installed in a host.
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19:14<themill>lee_: dpkg doesn't need to be taught every single little snippet of information you know, btw.
19:15<lee_>Teaching it all that would be too much work to anyway.
19:15<dpkg>i heard interface is something that lets two incompatible things communicate by translating between languages.
19:16<lee_>So a local interface is something that doesn´t allow a host to understand itself, I guess.
19:16<tsoliman>I think I found someone with the same problem
19:18<tsoliman>and I think I solved it
19:18<tsoliman>ServerAlias zeus.olympus
19:18<streuner_>lee_: what did your teacher told you, do everything what he told you?
19:19<lee_>How do you correct something you tought dpkg?
19:19<streuner_>lee_: alternate a factoid?
19:19<lee_>streuner_: I´ve had too many teachers to remember ...
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19:19<lee_>streuner_: That´s probably what you call it?
19:19<streuner_>yeah, you dont remember
19:20<streuner_>lee_: do you want change/alternate a factoid?
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19:20<lee_>streuner_: I´d like to enter something else for "local interface".
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19:22<tsoliman>yay I fixed apache2 with the same idea
19:22<streuner_>dpkg, listvals interface
19:22<dpkg>Factoid search of 'interface' by value (15 of 263): aptitude ;; atapi ;; bfd ;; bri ;; cfs ;; grub-menu-floppy #del# ;; id10t ;; ndis ;; netbeui ;; netsetup ;; pci ;; rfc786 ;; smalltalk ;; vnstat ;; xulrunner.
19:22<tsoliman>it is all behavior changes in the new versions of packages
19:22<streuner_>hm, 263 factoids, that sounds like real fun
19:23<streuner_>dpkg, listauth id10t
19:23<dpkg>factoid author list by 'id10t' returned no results.
19:23<tsoliman>is the entirety of the jargon file in it?
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19:24<tsoliman>I remember had all of jargon and all of webster1911 in it
19:24<tsoliman>it was like a nice bootstrap
19:24<streuner_>dpkg, listauth id10t
19:24<dpkg>factoid author list by 'id10t' returned no results.
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19:24<tsoliman>maybe it was directly inserted
19:24<tsoliman>into the DB or whatever the heck backend thing has
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19:25<lee_>tsoliman: doesn´t know what a local interface is, either
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19:27<tsoliman>from the context of that reference document.. it seems there's something called "external interface"
19:27<tsoliman>I think it really means same-subnet
19:27<tsoliman>it could mean vs the rest
19:29<jhutchins_lt>tsoliman: The problem is that there is not a fixed definition of "local interface", "internal interface", and "external interface". It depends on the context.
19:29<jhutchins_lt>tsoliman: So you are far better of using additional descriptive text rather than trying to force a fixed definition on a term that doesn't have one.
19:29<Lanz>If I were going to install Debian onto a solid state drive, would you guys recommend EXT4 or BTRFS? I'm worried about the stability and lack of fsck for BTRFS...
19:29<lee_>tsoliman: Hm, it explicitly says "all local interfaces" and points out that access from foreign networks are never accepted.
19:30<tsoliman>Lanz: I thought the lack of fsck was because you didn't need it
19:31<jhutchins_lt>Lanz: Do you need support for very large files or filesystems?
19:31<lee_>Lanz: I´d use ext4. Btrfs seems to work, though it´s considered unstable and prone to loss of data.
19:31<Lanz>tsoliman: fsck is coming, it just isn't ready yet
19:31<Lanz>I need support for files up to 20gb in side
19:31<tsoliman>the bot thinks it is only for benchmarking and review
19:31<tsoliman>I mean BTRFS
19:31<Lanz>Haha fair enough
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19:32<tsoliman>why not ext3?
19:32<Lanz>Is EXT4 optimized for solid state though? That's my other concern, because I thought one of the main selling points of BTRFS was solid state support.
19:32<KNUBBIG>Hey, I'm getting the following error on dist-upgrade on squeeze, any1 who can help me with it? Thanks in advance:
19:32<tsoliman>Lanz: what does being optimized for solid state mean exactly?
19:33<lee_>Lanz, I´ve recently started using btrfs on a disk to make backups because it natively supports compression. I haven´t had any problems with it yet, though I haven´t done much testing, either.
19:33<Lanz>lee_: sounds good
19:34<jhutchins_lt>KNUBBIG: I believe the install guide has some information on working with mdadmin and grub.
19:34<Lanz>tsoliman: I just remember reading it on Phoronix a while back, can't remember specifics and things may have changed since
19:34<lee_>Lanz: You should check what kernel version you need for the REMAP (or how was that called?) support that´s useful for SSDs.
19:34<jhutchins_lt>KNUBBIG: You could also check the release notes.
19:34<jhutchins_lt>KNUBBIG: Do you need links to either?\
19:34<Lanz>I'd be running the latest 2.6.38
19:34<KNUBBIG>if you have them it'd be nice, but I could google them :)
19:34<jhutchins_lt>!tell KNUBBIG about ig
19:34<jhutchins_lt>!tell KNUBBIG about release notes
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19:35<Lanz>Let me put it this way, is there any reason not to use EXT4 with a solid state drive?
19:35<lee_>Lanz: And I´d caution you to use for anything "real". The backup disk is unmounted when not in use, I haven´t tried to play back anything from it yet, and it´s no more than a kind of last resort because I don´t have anything atm to make a real backup.
19:35<KNUBBIG>jhutchins thanks
19:35<tsoliman>KNUBBIG: about the missing firmware, there's a package which has those
19:35<Lanz>Fair enough lee_, that made my decision for me
19:35<Lanz>Thank you
19:36<Lanz>Reliability is a major concern
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19:36<lee_>Lanz: yw :) My thinking was that it´s better than no backup at all, so if reliability is important for you, don´t use btrfs yet.
19:37<Lanz>lee_: I shall hold off while it stabilizes :)
19:38<tsoliman>lee_: you haven't played back anything from it yet? Please Do so ASAP before you need it and find out it doesn't work
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19:39<lee_>tsoliman: Yeah, I better do that.
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19:40<tsoliman>here's a funny one
19:40<dpkg>[linus] The Man. or someone who pushes to have procfs replace sysctl, despite the fact for programs this makes things significantly slower. someone that doesn't comment, or at
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19:41<lee_>tsoliman: "Host and domain name matching require that you enable the HostNameLookups directive" says the cups documentation you pointed to earlier. Perhaps that explains what you´re seeing.
19:41<tsoliman>yes I got around it though
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19:42<tsoliman>I don't want to turn that on
19:42<tsoliman>apparently cups has 2 kinds of "acceptance"
19:42<lee_>so you changed @LOCAL for something else?
19:42<tsoliman>listening and then acceptance
19:42<tsoliman>@LOCAL is there
19:42<tsoliman>and represents 127
19:42<tsoliman>I think
19:43<tsoliman>Listen 631 means on all interfaces
19:43<tsoliman>then there's acceptance of the host header
19:43<tsoliman>which is what was giving me trouble
19:43<lee_>"The @LOCAL name will allow access from all local interfaces. "
19:43<tsoliman>that means lo I think
19:43<tsoliman>either way I have access
19:43<lee_>That´s not only 127, I guess, and 631 is just the port.
19:43<tsoliman>the problem wasnt that
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19:44<tsoliman>the problem was in the host header parsing
19:44<winsen1>good night everybody
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19:44<tsoliman>it wasn't recognizing itself as the FQDN
19:44<lee_>night winsen1
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19:45<lee_>tsoliman: So you had some kind of DNS problem?
19:45<tsoliman>no .. I had a change in behvior of the squeeze version
19:45<tsoliman>cups in lenny behaved differently
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19:46<tsoliman>it (by default) accepted all host header values
19:46<tsoliman>the new one only accepts the hostname
19:46<tsoliman>(and localhost and the ip)
19:46<lee_>sounds like it now works as it should
19:47<tsoliman>sorry if that wasn't clear up there
19:47<tsoliman>also apache2 is fixed :D yay
19:47<tsoliman>again .. difference in behavior with squeeze
19:48<lee_>well, I´m still puzzeld how uncertain it can become what "local interface" means :)
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20:22<tsoliman>cups-pdf is amazing .. I've always wanted this
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20:25<lee_>cups can be somewhat troublesome, though
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20:27<tsoliman>in what way?
20:28<lee_>it can sometimes quit working, at which point it can be difficult to get it to work again
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20:28<lee_>they probably improved about that, and as long as you don´t have a lot of clients using it, it should be fine
20:28<tsoliman>I only have a few users
20:29<PadawanLearner>i'm having a problem with netinstall
20:29<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
20:29<lee_>Before deploying it in some networking environment with a number of clients, I´d first check if there are better solutions and think twice.
20:29<PadawanLearner>d-i claims that the release file has an invalid sig
20:30<vook>PadawanLearner: is the install failing ?
20:30<abrotman>PadawanLearner: which netinst?
20:30<PadawanLearner>i downloaded it from the mirror
20:30<abrotman>which one?
20:31<abrotman>there are many netinst
20:31<PadawanLearner>ok, i set it up a few weeks ago
20:31<PadawanLearner>let me see if i can recall it
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20:32<vook>look for the links on the right side of the page : probably AMD64 or i386
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20:33<PadawanLearner>i tried several
20:33<PadawanLearner>even the one from the d-i daily builds
20:33<PadawanLearner>but i think that the problem is related to my setup
20:34<PadawanLearner>i'm using apt-cacher
20:34<PadawanLearner>as a proxy
20:34<PadawanLearner>in the install
20:34<vook>could be a mirror issue - maybe use the default mirror and install just the minimal, then go to a local mirror.
20:35<PadawanLearner>release file signed by unknown key
20:35<PadawanLearner>at the time i googled up and found a bug report
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20:35<PadawanLearner>and removing a file would stop this, but could lead to other issues
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20:46<PadawanLearner>ok, i got down to debian-boot for a couple of minutes
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20:46<PadawanLearner>there are some nice people around there
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20:47<PadawanLearner>does anyone knows if it is possible to instruct netinst to use an iso at the tftp root as package source?
20:47<PadawanLearner>for install i mean
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20:48<vook>PadawanLearner: you can do a tftp install, if that is what you are asking - you'd handle that through your BIOS - boot to network.
20:49-!-Guest635 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:49<vook>you'd need a tftp source locally though (I think). I don't think there is a way to boot over the internet.
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20:51*vook will spare you the !anyone :)
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20:51<PadawanLearner>vook: :)
20:51<PadawanLearner>i have that working
20:52<PadawanLearner>i just wanted to make the complete install go through my apt-cacher
20:52<PadawanLearner>that i'm using as a proxy
20:52<PadawanLearner>and that is the issue
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20:53<PadawanLearner>to boot directly via internet, one could use gPXE
20:53-!-dEhiN [] has joined #debian
20:53<PadawanLearner>wich is very cool, but very slow to load
20:53<PadawanLearner>on small links to the web
20:54<PadawanLearner>vook: thanks for the hand :)
20:54<vook>yep - thanks for the heads up re: gPXE
20:55<PadawanLearner>vook: one of this day's we will see a panoplia of devices netbooting from their ISP's
20:56<PadawanLearner>or vendors
20:56<PadawanLearner>i envisioned it, but when i saw gPXE on gsoc i was sure...
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21:00<SynrG>i would like
21:00<SynrG>to find
21:00<SynrG>the factoid
21:00<SynrG>to ask people
21:00<SynrG>to stop doing this
21:00<dpkg>well, flooding is is spewing loads of output into a channel; *very* rude in most channels and often grounds for banning. If you want to show a lot of output to someone, ask them to join you in #flood and paste the output there. Or ask me about <paste>
21:01<tsoliman>SynrG: you're welcome :P
21:01<SynrG>i thought there was something specifically about taking entire sentences and chopping them into multiple, short lines
21:02<vook>SynrG: when in doubt - don't do it
21:02<SynrG>most people won't really understand that when they're doing that, this is considered flooding too.
21:02<dpkg>#debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
21:02<SynrG>vook: it was humor
21:02<SynrG>and it was topical (see above)
21:02<dpkg>The enter key is not a substitute for punctuation. Hitting enter unnecessarily makes it difficult to follow what you are saying. Consider using ',', '. ', ';', '...', '---', or ':' instead. If you hit enter too often, you will be autokicked by debhelper for flooding the channel.
21:02<abrotman>SynrG: that one?
21:03<SynrG>abrotman: thank you! exactly the one
21:03<SynrG>!tell PadawanLearner about enter
21:03<abrotman>SynrG: we made it a tricky one to find .. i mean .. the key says 'Enter' ..
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21:03*tsoliman wonders what happened to calling it "return"
21:04*SynrG looks desperately for a key called "Return" on his keyboard ...
21:04<abrotman>not a typewriter? dunno ..
21:04<SynrG>you "Enter" data. you "Return" a carriage
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21:04<abrotman>I haven't seen a device that said "Return" since the last I used an electronic typewriter .. that i'm aware of
21:04<vook>macs have in small type - enter - large type Return
21:04<abrotman>vook: Apple keyboards you mean ..
21:05*tsoliman never used a apple or a typewriter.
21:05*abrotman has a PPC mac, but not an Apple keyboard
21:05<abrotman>speaking of .. i still owe XSF another bug on that thing
21:05<sney>I think the keyboard on my old IBM PS/2 had a Return key.
21:06<abrotman>i have a model m in the closet if you want me to look
21:06<abrotman>though it's the variant with the nubbie in the middle
21:06<vook>my happy hacking keyboard may say return, not sure
21:06<SynrG>abrotman: in the closet? not a cherished implement of daily use?
21:07<abrotman>SynrG: attached to a laptop ?
21:07<sney>or it could have been the Dell we had of the same generation, dunno.
21:07<abrotman>and it's PS/2
21:07<abrotman>(though i do have a PS/2->USB adapter)
21:07<vook>happy hacking keyboard - yep
21:08<PadawanLearner>SynrG: thanks for the correction, over the years away i have lost the netiquette for irc
21:09<SynrG>no problem. i only know that one because once i had such a lapse myself. :)
21:09<abrotman>OMG, he used a comma!
21:09<PadawanLearner>i have a really slow link
21:10<PadawanLearner>so this netinstall is going to take *forever*
21:10<PadawanLearner>(am i doing it again?)
21:12*vook has found that a minimal netinst via CD - followed by a booting into the new system & then installing packages is the safer way to go - at least to save time.
21:12<tsoliman>I agree with vook
21:13<PadawanLearner>vook: tsoliman :)
21:13-!-jackSmith [~caleb@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:13<PadawanLearner>that was the way i used to do it
21:13<tsoliman>in fact the best way is to uncheck everything in that tasksel screen and then go from there
21:13<PadawanLearner>but i'm trying to get a local full install
21:13<PadawanLearner>via pxe
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21:14<PadawanLearner>in tasksel i install the only standard collection
21:14<PadawanLearner>i have apt-cacher running, and it's a dream
21:14<PadawanLearner>but i can't seem to get it running with d-i
21:15<vook>what is d-i ?
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21:15<PadawanLearner>installer components load very well
21:15<astronut>debian installer
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21:15<vook>ok - that's wot I thought.
21:15<PadawanLearner>but base system packages throw an error: invalid signature on release file
21:16<PadawanLearner>alias, unknown signature on release file
21:16<abrotman>enter key!
21:16<dpkg>The enter key is not a substitute for punctuation. Hitting enter unnecessarily makes it difficult to follow what you are saying. Consider using ',', '. ', ';', '...', '---', or ':' instead. If you hit enter too often, you will be autokicked by debhelper for flooding the channel.
21:17<PadawanLearner>i'm now having this issue without using the cacher... i guess that it is what i get by using d-i daily builds
21:18<tsoliman>What issue?
21:18<PadawanLearner>abrotman: lee_ ... bare with me... i'm not used to this
21:18<PadawanLearner>i am using apt-cacher
21:18<PadawanLearner>and was trying to use it right from the install
21:19<abrotman>i've had better luck with approx .. but not sure you want to mess with that now
21:19<PadawanLearner>(i know... i'm doing it again...)
21:19<vook>PadawanLearner: looks like it was maintained up through Sarge
21:19<PadawanLearner>vook: it's orfan?
21:20<vook>not sure - just my findings from a quick search
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21:22<lee_>PadawanLearner: I don´t know, when you get the same problem with and without caching packages (wich I suppose is what apt-cacher does), it could be a problem with the d-i you´re using. What version of Debian are you trying to install?
21:22<PadawanLearner>it works, but right now i have just found out that the issue might not be there, will have to start over using a fresh netinst tftp root.
21:22<PadawanLearner>lee_: :) preciselly
21:23<lee_>Did you try the installer for stable?
21:24<PadawanLearner>at first, yes, but i was having some trouble passing preseeding arguments, so i tryed the daily build
21:24<lee_>hm, the daily build may or may not work
21:25<lee_>What arguments did you try to pass?
21:25*PadawanLearner appologises... this is way into my typing habits...
21:25<tsoliman>if you have an apt-cacher, that means you have a slow connection or multiple machines doing the same thing. Why not just download the first DVD or so and install on all 100 machines?
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21:26<dEhiN>need some advice: have two HDs split into multiple partitions and am using lvm:
21:26<PadawanLearner>tsoliman: that would be ok on the first week, but then i would have updates et al to manage...
21:26<vook>dEhiN: and ?
21:26<dEhiN>hda1 - 36GB LVM; hda2 - 6GB Swap; hdb1 - 42GB LVM
21:26<tsoliman>which is fine, your issue is only *during install* right?
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21:27<dEhiN>hda1 is a lvg and logical partition /
21:27<dEhiN>hdb1 is a second lvg and logical partition /var
21:27*lee_ thinks that PadawanLearner needs to go and explain step by step to get a hold of the problems he encounters ...
21:27<vook>dEhiN: that's some kind of huge /var I'm thinking
21:28<PadawanLearner>tsoliman: there is one other issue: time. netinst beats CD/DVD/whatever in install time and allows for flexible preseeding, install tweaks per machine, etc
21:28<dEhiN>vook: am planning to use it for a db server
21:28<dEhiN>I want to now delete the logical partition /var, the second lvg and delete hdb1 (don't have the space right now)
21:28<dEhiN>but how can I do that and yet copy all the /var/* into logical partiiton /?
21:28<tsoliman>PadawanLearner: throw the DVD on the network then and PXE install
21:28<PadawanLearner>tsoliman: for windows machines it's the same thing, if you try it and start using it, you're hooked
21:29<dEhiN>btw, this install is a vm, so right now I need the space used by hdb1 vdi, and I haven't installed the db server yet
21:29<PadawanLearner>tsoliman: is it possible to use a nerworked dvd as netinstall package source?
21:29<vook>dEhiN: do you have enough space anywhere on hda to copy the data, the create a symlink ?
21:30<dEhiN>vook: I should have space on hda1 (ie, /) since I don't think it uses up all can I check the actual usage of /var?
21:30<vook>dEhiN: df -h
21:31<vook>dEhiN: or 'du --max-depth=1 -h' from within /var
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21:31<lee_>or du /var
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21:32<dEhiN>I'm good for space: /dev/mapper/system-root (mount /) uses 697M of 33G; /dev/mapper/user-var (mount /var) uses 357M of 40G
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21:33<lee_>dEhiN: cp -avx or the like should do the copying
21:33<dEhiN>so should I umount /var, re-mount under another mount point, create dir /var, and copy contents?
21:34<lee_>dEhiN: if you´re afraid that data on /var might change during the copying, yes
21:34<vook>dEhiN: yeah - create a dir on hda1 and copy the contents of /var using something like 'tar cf - * | ( cd /target; tar xfp -)'
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21:34<vook>then unmount /var, rename the new dir to var or create a symlink
21:35<dEhiN>vook: wow! that's a command I can't parse, pls explain the bit after |
21:35<vook>dEhiN: it basically is a tar copy - it preserves all permissions
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21:36<dEhiN>what does the '-' mean?
21:36<dEhiN>current directory?
21:36<vook>:) I just know what it does
21:36<tsoliman>it means std/out
21:36<tsoliman>oops I meant to say stdin/out
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21:36<dEhiN>thanks tsoliman
21:37-!-kelsoo [~kelsoo@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:37<vook>dEhiN: that be run from the source dir btw
21:37<dEhiN>so then after copying and creating new dir, do I edit fstab to remove the /var mount point?
21:37<dEhiN>vook: got it
21:37<vook>yep - or comment out
21:38*tsoliman thinks rsync is better than this tar tar business
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21:38*vook is always ready to be enlightened
21:38*lee_ thinks the tar copying is rather elegant
21:38<dEhiN>well I probably want to delete, because I'm planning to delete the lvg user-var and then delete the hdb vdi
21:38<warrenchild>Hello all!!! Anyone know any good video surveillance software for linux??
21:38<tsoliman>vook: rsync --archive source target
21:38<PadawanLearner>warrenchild: zoneminder
21:38<dEhiN>tsoliman: what is rsync?
21:39<dpkg>well, rsync is a superior network file synchronization program. Handy for downloading a Linux kernel, e.g. rsync -avz --partial /usr/local/home/peej/src/ Useful for backups as per , see also <rsnapshot>. #rsync on
21:39<warrenchild>PadawanLearner: thanks
21:39<dEhiN>tsoliman: in this case I need a one-off dir sync
21:39<dEhiN>so would rsync still be useful?
21:40<tsoliman>warrenchild: check out motion too
21:40<warrenchild>you got a website for motion? tsoliman?
21:40<SynrG>rsync hails from a day when communication costs were sufficiently high that the extra processing required to compute the checksums was worth it
21:40<PadawanLearner>warrenchild: apt-cache show motion
21:40<tsoliman>dEhiN: use it like you would use cp ... rsync --archive source target
21:41<lee_>rsync is great for making backups because it allows you to copy what has changed only
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21:41<lee_>... that´s a lot faster than having to copy everything each time when making a backup
21:41<tsoliman>SynrG: don't get too hung up on the network aspect of rsync .. it is a great recursive local copier too with the --archive
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21:42<dEhiN>tsoliman: thanks I'll use rsync then
21:42<warrenchild>I found it tsoliman thanks
21:42<tsoliman>warrenchild: just aptitude install motion :)
21:42<SynrG>tsoliman: i'm not anti-rsync. i just don't find it is often the tool i reach for. it is quite well-adapted to some tasks
21:42<th_>places like where am i right now. US$8.7 for only 64kb/s, sad, really sad
21:42<vook>PadawanLearner: lowdown on apt-cacher - it is maintained - 1.6.12
21:42<th_>i use rsync daily, it's really useful to compress it first
21:42<SynrG>but perhaps its heydey has come and gone, that's all
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21:43<dEhiN>before I attempt this, I was reading vook's command, and was wondering what's the difference between | (pipe) and ; (semi-colon)
21:43<th_>saving lots of time
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21:43<PadawanLearner>vook: :)
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21:43<vook>pipe pipes data to the next command. semi colon just says, command (correct me if I'm wrong)
21:44<tsoliman>SynrG: I think it beats the mcguyver technique of tar tar .. mcguyvering things is "the unix way" but I think using a tool that is easy to remember is superior .. consider this next time someone says "I do this but I don't know what it means" like magical incantations
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21:44<PadawanLearner>th_: where i am i pay 20 euros for 12Mb, but that's advertising, because i don't get more than 100k
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21:44<dEhiN>th_: are you talking hosting space? or bandwidth?
21:44<SynrG>tsoliman: bah. anything i can't remember i just write a one-liner script for :) yes, i do see your point, though
21:44<tsoliman>th_: if over the network then rsync --archive --compress is the way to go yes :) for local copies though it is useless to compress
21:45<th_>PadawanLearner, where are you? in a hotel? that's so expensive
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21:45<tsoliman>PadawanLearner: are you metered or is that just a speed limit?
21:46<PadawanLearner>tsoliman: it's plain bad location, very old lines
21:46<th_>dEhiN, banwidth and cost of the only available internet access in this island
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21:46<dEhiN>th_: where are you? if it's the only available access, then the cost makes sense
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21:46<th_>tsoliman, and --checksum --partial, :)
21:46<tsoliman>PadawanLearner: what I am asking is, do you pay 20 euros for every 12 MB you download or are you speed-limited at 12 MB/sec?
21:47<PadawanLearner>th_: bandwidth
21:47<PadawanLearner>not traffic
21:48<PadawanLearner>brb, reboot
21:48<th_>an island off the coast of celebes island, indonesia
21:49<th_>yea, there is a debian user here :)
21:49<th_>just one
21:49<dEhiN>th_: nice!
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21:50<dEhiN>what is dependency based boot sequencing?
21:51<lee_>It means that some things can be started simultaneously while others can not. Which ones can and which ones can not depends on in which order things need to be started.
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21:51<lee_>For example, it doesn´t make much sense to start an MTA or an ntp server before the network is configured.
21:52<lee_>Starting things simultaneously can make booting faster.
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21:53<Aleric>Is there any video montage program available for linux?
21:54<lee_>Aleric: dvbcut is nice
21:54<PadawanLearner>th_: im at Portugal
21:54<lee_>Aleric: there´s also cinelarra
21:54<lee_>Aleric:What´s better depends on what you want to do.
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21:55<Aleric>lee_: I want to make movies :) ... with screen capture (in Second Life). So, I'm going to end up with a series of shots that I need to cut and connect and then put music under.
21:55<lee_>oh there´s software to record what´s being displayed on the desktop
21:56-!-cthuluh [] has quit [Quit: kexec]
21:56<lee_>your keyword is "screencast"
21:57<lee_>try #apt-cache show recordMyDesktop
21:57<Aleric>I think I should write some own software to write the frames more compressed to some format.... not sure what frame rate I'll need though...
21:57<lee_>Hm, I tried recordmydesktop and it worked quite well, recording even when switching virtual desktops.
21:57<Aleric>Ie, I have a frame buffer and then want to use one my cores to compress that to jpeg format or something...
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21:58<Aleric>I guess that if I want to do that then I better look at existing video libraries.
21:58<lee_>If you can spare the disk space, I´d do that later. Other than that, you could probably pipe the output of the recorder to something like ffmpeg to compress it.
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21:59<lee_>There´s also handbrake which you could use to recode the output comfortably, I guess.
22:00<Aleric>Ah yes :) ffmpeg seems exactly what I need. I can hack the SL viewer to just use that library to write a movie to disk in mpeg format.
22:00<lee_>nah, don´t do that
22:00<lee_>it´s much easier to use recordMyDesktop
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22:00<lee_>or some other program that does the recording
22:01-!-mode/#debian [+l 435] by debhelper
22:01<lee_>Which client are you using? I´ve tried to compile imprudence a couple times, without success.
22:01<Aleric>I'm using imprudence
22:01<lee_>Did you manage to compile that?
22:01<Aleric>I'm one of the viewer hackers
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22:02<Aleric>However, I have to go to bed now... ask me another time to help you compile the viewer ;)
22:02<lee_>Cool :) A built-in thingy to record videos would sure be nice.
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22:02<lee_>ok --- sleep well then :)
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22:02<Aleric>nite - thanks
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22:30<PadawanLearner>i think i found the issue
22:31<dpkg>methinks issue is /etc/issue or /etc/
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22:31<PadawanLearner>gpgv: multiple signatures detected. Only the first will be used.
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22:32<PadawanLearner>lee_: hehehe
22:33<lee_>so it refuses to install packages bc it can´t find the signature, without giving the usual choice of installing them anyway?
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22:34<PadawanLearner>lee_: i don't think that is bad, though if broken can be a real pain...
22:35<PadawanLearner>but i'm still not sure if that message states what we are reading from it...
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22:35<lee_>Hm, I´ve had that before and got a choice to install anyway, yet not when using the installer.
22:35<PadawanLearner>brb, reboot
22:35<lee_>This shouldn´t happen with the stable installer at least --- lots of ppl would have this problem otherwise.
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22:41<PadawanLearner>lee_: i'm going with the stable one
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22:42<lee_>Then why doesn´t everyone have a problem with signatures?
22:42<PadawanLearner>funny though
22:42<bones_was_here>who should i inform of brokenness with ? it affects other australian mirrors also, since they probably all get their data from there
22:42<PadawanLearner>i'm booting amd64 now and so far, so good
22:42<bones_was_here>currently, its not possible to install packages from testing, unstable or experimental using australian mirrors
22:42<PadawanLearner>bones_was_here: i guess ftpmasters
22:43<PadawanLearner>you have that info at the debian mirrors page, if i'm not mistaken
22:43<bones_was_here>also, the problem is such that aptitude shows no indication of there being a problem - other than there being no packages available to install
22:44<bones_was_here>apt-get shows the error...
22:46<dpkg>user error at console, abort, retry, fail? See also <don't work>, <errors>.
22:46<bones_was_here>i dont really know where the problem is, but this happens quite regularly
22:46<PadawanLearner>i'm going through the apt-cacher logs, and the requests mostly miss because it's the first amd64 that it serves
22:46<PadawanLearner>bones_was_here: i would get in touch with the debian ftp team
22:48<lee_>PadawanLearner: It doesn´t even find packages because it has trouble with the keys?
22:49<PadawanLearner>lee_: nop, it is retrieving every single one for the first time, so no issues. I'm also using a brand new, clean and shiny netboot tftproot so ir could be from either one
22:50<lee_>PadawanLearner: What could be from either one?
22:52<PadawanLearner>the issue i was having, it could had been generated from at least 3 factors: broken netboot tftproot; broken apt-cacher; buggy d-i on the i386 arch
22:52<lee_>and you have the same problem with all installers you tried?
22:54<PadawanLearner>i'm not having it with amd64
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22:55<lee_>then you could use that and file a bug report ...
22:57<PadawanLearner>lee_: i sure would, but to do that i will have to install again, i386 arch and reproduce the issue. If it happens again, will do.
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22:58<lee_>sounds like a plan :)
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23:01<abrotman>bones_was_here: is a round-robin ..
23:01<PadawanLearner>abrotman: wow, so there is at least one master ftp server on .au that's broken
23:02<abrotman>or he's resolving to the same one all the time?
23:02<bones_was_here>there's a bunch broken.. i've tried several
23:02<bones_was_here>when it happens, switching mirrors manually almost never helps (unless i manage to hit an out of date mirror)
23:02<lee_>do you get
23:03<abrotman>bones_was_here: try a different mirror ..
23:03<abrotman>like ..
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23:10<bones_was_here>abrotman: its possible to find a working mirror manually, yes, but having to switch mirrors all the time kind of means there's a problem that needs fixing
23:11<bones_was_here>also, bandwidth is quite expensive in australia so i prefer to use my isp-provided mirror so the bandwidth is not metered, but that mirror usually breaks when does
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23:14<PadawanLearner>bones_was_here: when i have a problem that i can't solve on a third party site, i usually try to stick to my premises... what about setting up a cache for apt?
23:14<PadawanLearner>that way you only use it once for all computers at your site
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23:17<bones_was_here>PadawanLearner: at the moment i just use squid for that, but either method will still fail to download package lists when they're corrupted upstream of the cache... a proper apt cache would mean i could still install packages when its broken, but wont fix the fact that it is broken...
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23:17<bones_was_here>i'll try mailing ...
23:17<ddsf>do you guys know how I can mount this:
23:17<ddsf>usb 1-3: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 78
23:17<ddsf>scsi47 : usb-storage 1-3:1.0
23:17<ddsf>scsi 47:0:0:0: Direct-Access Motorola A855 0001 PQ: 0 ANSI: 2
23:17<ddsf>sd 47:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg1 type 0
23:17<ddsf>sd 47:0:0:0: [sdb] Attached SCSI removable disk
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23:18<lee_>ddsf: what does fdisk -luc say?
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23:19<PadawanLearner>bones_was_here: sure, but if it's broken and you need updates, you'll pay bandwidth, so after mailing them, set up a nice cache...imho...
23:19<Steven4324>hey do you guys know how to mount this?
23:19<Steven4324>lee_: fdisk -luc says invalid option c
23:20<lee_>weird --- try fdisk -l then
23:20-!-edbian [] has quit []
23:21<Steven4324>it says this
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23:21<lee_>looks as if your system didn´t notice that you plugged in the device
23:22<edbian>If I do kill -TERM on a process is that the same as pressing the X in the title bar?
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23:22<bones_was_here>PadawanLearner: also i'm not sure whether aptitude's failure to display any error when it happens is a bug?
23:22<lee_>I´d expect it to show up as /dev/sdb in the output of fdisk
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23:23<Steven4324>its a phone
23:23<lee_>Steven4324: You can try to unplug it and plug it in again. Maybe it´ll show up with fdisk.
23:23<lee_>Steven4324: Did you set the phone to behave like a mass storage device?
23:24<Steven4324>it shows 4 disks one is probably the boot partition one the swap one the / partition
23:24<Steven4324>i wonder if maybe the phone is one of the four
23:24<lee_>Steven4324: Since the message from plugging it in says it´s sg1 aka sdb, fdisk should list /dev/sdb.
23:24<Steven4324>oh one is probably the logical huh?
23:25<lee_>Did you paste all the output of fdisk -l?
23:25<PadawanLearner>Steven4324: it is probably a fat filesystem
23:25<Steven4324>yea im trying to set behave as mass storage
23:26<lee_>ok, when you have set it to mass storage, unplug it and plug it back in
23:26<lee_>or maybe it´s better to unplug it before setting it to mass storage
23:27<Steven4324>its a android phone but i notice the port seems to be damaged
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23:28<lee_>can you use bluetooth?
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23:30<edbian>If I do kill -TERM on a process is that the same as pressing the X in the title bar?
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23:30<Steven4324>oh i see it now
23:31-!-mode/#debian [+l 435] by debhelper
23:31<Steven4324>its a damaged port i have to hold the wire a certain way
23:31<lee_>then you should be able to mount it :)
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23:31<lee_>edbian, you could try it out maybe?
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23:32<edbian>lee_: It was a process I started via ssh and x-forwarding. I am now on the ssh server and I can't see the app. I don't want to just kill it (it's evolution) because then it won't save which emails I've run and which I haven't. I can't see the app cause it was started remotely so I can't tell.
23:32<Steven4324>it says permission denied
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23:33<edbian>I already killed it. (kill -TERM) under the thinking 'who cares'
23:33<lee_>edbian: That´s one way to find out, I guess ...
23:34<edbian>lee_: Well I didn't find out. But it ended the process.
23:34<Steven4324>it mounts
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23:34<lee_>edbian: There are some applications that will minimize instead of terminate when you press their X ...
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23:35<PadawanLearner>edbian: evolution has some nice commandlines
23:35<edbian>lee_: really? such as...
23:35<PadawanLearner>check it out
23:35<PadawanLearner>maybe there's a kill func
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23:35<edbian>PadawanLearner: I didn't know that! I should have pulled it to the foreground.
23:35<edbian>Too late now. Maybe next time
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23:36<lee_>edbian: I´m not sure which one it was, could be kmail.
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23:36<PadawanLearner>edbian: i would assist you on this, but nocan do as my laptop's hard drive dyed
23:36<lee_>edbian: You would know for next time :)
23:36<edbian>lee_: That would be... annoying
23:36<edbian>next itme
23:36<lee_>edbian: It was kopete.
23:37-!-george_ [~george@] has joined #debian
23:37<lee_>edbian: Or how is that kde messenger called?
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23:38<edbian>I did know that. Turned it off right away. Personally I find nothing more annoying than an app that doesn't close when I hit the X
23:38<lee_>edbian: Yeah, kopete minimizes when you X it.
23:38<lee_>So what happens when you send it a TERM signal?
23:38<mosno>lee_: but it tells you first
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23:39<lee_>yes, it tells you --- and I agree it´s annoying
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23:39<edbian>lee_: What happens when you send 'what' the TERM signal?
23:39<edbian>Or do you mean in general?
23:39<george_>is there a factoid for reinstalling grub2 after a windows install (which in my case was a FC15 install)?
23:40<lee_>edbian: What happens when you send kopete a TERM signal? --- I´m about to try, hold on ...
23:41<lee_>It terminates, so X-ing it is different.
23:41<PadawanLearner>george_: what is a factoid?
23:41<george_>PadawanLearner, one of the IRC messages that start like !foo
23:41<PadawanLearner>george_: are you back in the debian install?
23:41<PadawanLearner>livecd, etc?
23:42<george_>PadawanLearner, no - can't boot to it, FC15 wrote a new MBR that only boot itself.
23:42<edbian>lee_: IDK, I'm not running KDE right now. Don't have it installed
23:42<lee_>edbian: X-ing an application probably sends the application some message that it´s supposed to terminate, depending on what kind of application it is (KDE, gnome, X ...).
23:43<PadawanLearner>i usually get some live media and boot then after getting to a shell i just grub-install hd0
23:43<edbian>It sends the TERM signal (which the app can handle)
23:43<lee_>adbian: I just tried, kopete terminates when you kill -TERM it. When X it, it tells you that it minimizes.
23:44<george_>PadawanLearner, thanks - i'll be trying that shortly - was wondering about required chroot etc. I'm not able to find much direction regarding grub2 reinstallation, lots for grub-legacy though.
23:44<edbian>I'm surprised they're different signals
23:44<edbian>I suppose the X is 'DESTROY'
23:44<edbian>Anyway, I have to go to bed. Have a good night! Thanks for the help :)
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23:44<lee_>adbian: yw --- good night :)
23:45<PadawanLearner>george_: earlyer this evening i debated myself with that
23:45<PadawanLearner>i ended up pxe booting to rescue
23:45<PadawanLearner>and then grub-install
23:46<PadawanLearner>rescue is the easyest way to go, believe me
23:46<george_>PadawanLearner, i certainly hope I don't have to go the pxe route - i'd rather just reinstall debian and forget about fc15
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23:47<PadawanLearner>george_: forget pxe, just stick to the rescue part, be it cd, dvd, pxe, hdmedia...
23:49<PadawanLearner>george_: you have some debian install media of some sort?
23:49<george_>PadawanLearner, ya, i should be able to find something ;)
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---Logclosed Tue Apr 05 00:00:12 2011