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#debian IRC Logs for 2011-04-07

---Logopened Thu Apr 07 00:00:46 2011
00:01-!-mode/#debian [+l 446] by debhelper
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00:07<twb>shinken or icinga?
00:08<sney>beep boop I am a robot
00:09<AgentC>dpkg: agentcisnotadatamachine is means that a programmer do not want to spent his time to help people which sees him just as an input / output machine for help purposes like a robot. me is a human !!!
00:09<dpkg>okay, AgentC
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00:10<AgentC>!seen agentc
00:10<dpkg>agentc is currently on #debian (1h 51m 35s). Has said a total of 26 messages. Is idling for 0s, last said: '!seen agentc'.
00:11<AgentC>dpkg: agentc is crazy. :)
00:11<dpkg>AgentC: okay
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00:11<AgentC>dpkg: i think so too :)
00:11<dpkg>AgentC: i haven't a clue
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00:11<AgentC>!give beer to agentc
00:11*dpkg gives beer to agentc
00:11<AgentC>dpkg: thank you
00:11<dpkg>no worries, AgentC
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00:14<AgentC>dpkg: what is mind ?
00:14<dpkg>I think you lost me on that one, AgentC
00:14<AgentC>dpkg: are you sure ?
00:14<dpkg>AgentC: I give up, what is it?
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00:15<AgentC>dpkg: mind is a kind of intelligence what no one knows what is is and where no one was before :)
00:15<dpkg>AgentC: okay
00:15<AgentC>dpkg thanks
00:15<dpkg>bitte, AgentC
00:16-!-chitchat [~guest@] has joined #debian
00:16<AgentC>chitchat: have you mind ?
00:17<sney>dpkg -i mind
00:17*dpkg removes a lung from sney and replaces it with mind
00:17<sney>that seems inefficient
00:17<chitchat>AgentC: pardon?
00:17<AgentC>sney. I KNOW, was jokey.
00:18<sney>I think AgentC needs some time in the drunk tank.
00:18<AgentC>dpkg agentc is drunken
00:18<dpkg>...but agentc is already something else...
00:18<dpkg>somebody said agentc was crazy. :)
00:19<AgentC>!forget agentc
00:19<dpkg>i forgot agentc, AgentC
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00:19<AgentC>sney: was that right what dpkg sad ?? ;-)) *G*
00:20<sney>AgentC: usually #debian-offtopic is where the drunken ramblings go.
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00:21<AgentC>sney: was just jokey, i know this here is a support system
00:22<AgentC>sney: jgoppert have a problem to get up his bootloader, i try to help him but rescue console does not support grub-install or oter instructions like aptitude/apt-get etc.
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00:23<AgentC>!tell jgoppert about grub
00:25<sney>AgentC: jgoppert hasn't responded since almost an hour ago.
00:25<th>hi, i'm using debian squeeze, cifs-utils installed. i have an entry in /etc/fstab: //buaya/temp /mnt/buayatemp cifs users,noauto,noatime,nodev,nosuid,noexec,rw,uid=1000,gid=1000,nounix,file_mode=0644,dir_mode=0755,user=Administrator,password=qweasd 0 0. as a normal user, i can mount it using mount /mnt/buayatemp, but when i do umount /mnt/buayatem, i get umount: /mnt/buayatemp mount disagrees with the fstab. unmounting as root is working as ...
00:25<th>... expected. how do i make it so i can unmount it as a normal user too?
00:26<th>*umount /mnt/buayatemp
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00:27<AgentC_>dpkg th is a filemode changer :)
00:27<dpkg>okay, AgentC_
00:28*AgentC_ is back again after server-relogin
00:28<AgentC_>!forget th
00:28<dpkg>AgentC_: i forgot th
00:28<th>err, i don't understand
00:29<AgentC_>th: dont mind about
00:29<AgentC_>th: just joky, im currently a little bit crazy
00:29-!-reklipz [] has joined #debian
00:29<th>oh, me too, sometimes
00:30<AgentC_>th: hehe ;=) tell dpkg th is crazy :-)
00:30<th>dpkg, th is crazy
00:30<dpkg>i already had it that way, th
00:30<dpkg>from memory, th is crazy
00:31<AgentC_>!forget th
00:31<dpkg>i forgot th, AgentC_
00:31<AgentC_>th: whats the problem on your system ?
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00:32<th>i can't umount a cifs share as a normal user, it was mounted as normal user
00:32<th>i got umount: /mnt/buayatemp mount disagrees with the fstab
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00:33<th>umounting as root works
00:33<agentc>th: make sure all running apps do not use it any more
00:33<sney>when it's mounted, what does 'mount' with no arguments show for it?
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00:34<th>//buaya/temp/ on /mnt/buayatemp type cifs (rw,mand,noexec,nosuid,nodev,user=th)
00:34<th>agentc, nothing opened in /mnt/buayatemp as listed by lsof
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00:35<sney>th: looks like it's ignoring some of your options, that could be the source of the disagreement
00:36<th>i'll try some permutations of the options to find out what's going on
00:36<agentc>th: when any application (like filemanager, opened dir-windows etc.) have open that directory, it is used, and when it is marked as used it cant be unmounted. in that case you can use the "force" option (-f if im right) to force the unmount even it is in usage
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00:37<sney>agentc: that would not cause a 'disagrees with fstab' error, please try to keep your help relevant.
00:38*agentc agrees to have no idea to solve that :)
00:38<agentc>something what you never should do : rm -rf /
00:39<sney>!ops agentc needs some time in the drunk tank
00:39<dpkg>Hydroxide, bob2, caphuso, dondelelcaro, doogie, eeyore-, ElectricElf, ):, helix, ljlane, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, Netsnipe, TML, walters, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Alife, Myon, Ganneff, Maulkin, weasel, zobel, themill: sney complains about: agentc needs some time in the drunk tank
00:41<dpkg>sney is probably drunken if not he's crazy, if he's not, he's fine, anytime, or absolute correct
00:41<th>fstab: //buaya/temp /mnt/buayatemp cifs users,user=Administrator 0 0. mount: //buaya/temp/ on /mnt/buayatemp type cifs (rw,mand,nosuid,nodev,user=th). lsof +D /mnt/buayatemp results: nothing
00:42<th>umount /mnt/buayatemp still results in the same error msg
00:42<th>how do nosuid, mand, nodev get into the mount option
00:42<sney>th: maybe ask in #samba on freenode
00:42<th>sney, ok, thanks for the tip
00:42<agentc>th: i have also samba runnin
00:43<sney>agentc: someone is going to come in here and ban you
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00:43<agentc>sney: maybe dpkg dont know you, so are you correct?
00:44<agentc>sney: dont mind about, i try to help but im currently crazy state
00:44<th>actually, the cifs server is windows xp. but i'll try to ask samba people
00:44<sney>th: they are generally pretty knowledgeable about all things cifs/smbfs
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00:44<agentc>th: can you "paste" me your smb.conf ?
00:45<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: or for pics. Use for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <>, <wgetpaste>.
00:45<th>agentc, i don't have an smb.conf here
00:46<sney>agentc: please stop "helping"
00:46<agentc>th: /etc/samba/smb.conf
00:46<agentc>sney: shall I ?
00:46<sney>agentc: you are being useless and annoying. Please go do something else.
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00:48<agentc>sney: see you later, i wanted to do bit of what i can, but i see, my current state is unwished, so ...... hmpf... hm,
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00:52<agentc>sney: if you like, take a look to my php site, , there is a player which plays sounds from a yamaha CS1x sampled from me. you can also login as "testuser" pw: "test" to checkout usage of SMS-sending. would you do for a response of quality-checking ?
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00:57<agentc>dpkg agentc is an offtopic person which never saw a computer and have complexes to understand the functionality of a brain or any other CPU and is not needed any more of the community of computer and physcis science.
00:57<dpkg>agentc: okay
00:57<agentc>dpkg: thanks
00:57<dpkg>no problem, agentc
00:57*agentc goes to sleep
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01:44<hemanth>installed on Kernel 2.6.32, but the rendering is not fine, fonts are too sharp, images are broken
01:44<hemanth>what might be the issue?
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01:45*hemanth is on ATI Technologies Inc Radeon HD 3200 Graphics
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02:25<hemanth>Anyone on ATI Technologies Inc Radeon HD 3200 Graphics with proper rendering ?
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02:57<kinz>can anyone help me install java on my linux os?
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02:57<jm_>no doubt someone can
02:58<jm_>but anyone? I doubt
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03:08<devil>hemanth: isnt your card supportet well by radeon driver and firmware-linux-nonfree?
03:09<hemanth>devil, no, did not help, my card is HD 3200, for making it better, i complied the latest version of the kernel, still no use
03:10<hemanth>fonts are so sharp they are cutting through my retina :(
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03:10<devil>hemanth: radeon should really be fine with that card, unless you are into heavy gaming
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03:10<hemanth>devil, nah i don play games, you suggest me to remove the already installed drivers?
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03:11<hemanth>i had install
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03:12<devil>hemanth: why not use debians fglrx package?
03:12<hemanth>devil, fglrx packages being?
03:12<devil>hemanth: and yes, for that card i recommend using radeon and firmware-linux-nonfree
03:13<devil>hemanth: fglrx is packaged ati driver
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03:13<hemanth>devil,i have installed firmware-linux-nonfree
03:13<hemanth>devil, u suggest ?
03:13<devil>with the ati-driver its not needed, just with radeon
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03:15<devil>the wiki describes the debian way for the proprietary driver. i recommend the free radeon driver
03:15<hemanth>aptitude install firmware-linux-nonfree
03:16<hemanth>is all i need to do, so?
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03:17<karika200>I have problem with setting up radvd... My clients get IP, but they can't reach the network
03:17<karika200>any idea?
03:17<hemanth>devil, tried xserver-xorg-video-radeonhd will have to restart gdm3 right?
03:17<devil>did i say radeonhd?
03:18<hemanth>free radeon driver
03:18<devil>hemanth: its dead, jim.
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03:18<devil>hemanth: if i menat radeonhd, i would have said radeonhd
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03:18<hemanth>devil, xserver-xorg-video-ati ?
03:19<devil>should be installed
03:19<hemanth>devil, Need to get 0 B of archives. After unpacking 0 B will be used.
03:19<jm_>xserver-xorg-video-ati depends on it anyway
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03:20<devil>hemanth: you need to remove all remains of the prop. driver for it to work
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03:20<hemanth>devil, okies, removed it, it says you need to reboot, will be back in a flash
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03:24<hemanth>devil, compiz was enable, window borders missing, fonts are still sharp :(
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03:25<hemanth>devil, with metacity, i see window borders on minimize and maximize
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03:32<hemanth>devil, please help me out
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03:35<Naznaz>Hi, I have the following problem: I start a screen daemon via screen -dmS NAME. Do I have the possibility to somehow send it a signal so that it terminates?
03:36<Naznaz>(I won't know the PID)
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03:37<jww_>Naznaz: do you have more than one screen running ?
03:37<devil>hemanth: with compiz, i am out. no idea on that
03:37<Naznaz>jww_, no
03:37<hemanth>devil, without compiz will also do, i just want smooth fonts
03:37<jww_>Naznaz: so 'pidof screen' should give you the PID.
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03:38<Naznaz>jww_, okay, thanks, I'll give it a try
03:38<devil>hemanth: you can play wih dpkg-reconfigure fontconfig-config
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03:38<jww_>Naznaz: I think there is a cleaner way to do it trough.
03:38<hemanth>devil, sure
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03:39<jm_>Naznaz: you can send it quit command with -X AFAIK
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03:39<hemanth>devil, did that, needs a gdm restart?
03:39<Naznaz>jww_, thanks, kill `pidof SCREEN` works
03:39<Naznaz>jm_, thanks, I'll try that, too
03:39<devil>hemanth: i guess so
03:39<hemanth>devil, ok
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03:42<hemanth>devil, fonts are better now, but very bad in the browser tough :(
03:43<devil>what browser?
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03:45<hemanth>devil, firefox
03:45<devil>hemanth: try some different fonts
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03:45<Naznaz>another question, I've added a script to /etc/init.d and executed update-rc.d which gives me the following: update-rc.d: using dependency based boot sequencing
03:45<Naznaz>insserv: warning: script 'worktimecounter-server' missing LSB tags and overrides did it work correctly?
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03:46<Naznaz>sorry forgot ""
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03:47<hemanth>devil, same
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03:48<jww_>ao2: take a loot to the others init script,
03:48<jww_>and to .
03:48<jww_>it was for you Naznaz .
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03:58<Naznaz>jww_, thx again :)
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04:35<nsadmin>I need to write a udev rule, I got ubuntu instructions that differ by version, I run debian so maybe neither apply. I need a list of values for SUBSYSTEM== in squeeze; what documentation or other info source shows that list?
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04:40<jm_>nsadmin: why not check what udevinfo shows you for given device?
04:40<me>howto retrieve the BackPorts key?
04:40<me>--what keyserver?
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04:46<nsadmin>jm_, hi, thanks for response
04:46<nsadmin>one sec. trying to determine where is "udevinfo", so far judd says there isn't one
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04:47<themill>man udevadm → info
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04:48<jm_>nsadmin: /usr/bin/udevinfo, /usr/share/man/man8/udevinfo.8.gz
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04:49<nsadmin>what package?
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04:49<themill>,file bin/udevinfo --release lenny
04:49<judd>bin/udevinfo in lenny/i386: udev: usr/bin/udevinfo
04:49<themill>,file bin/udevinfo --release squeeze
04:49<judd>No packages were found with that file.
04:49<nsadmin>as you can see...
04:50<jm_>so just use udevadm info as themill said
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04:50<nsadmin>how do I ask it for SUBSYSTEMs?
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04:51<jm_>I really shall upgrade to squeeze next week, getting tired of being surprised by all the changes :)
04:51<jm_>nsadmin: what exactly do you want to do?
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04:52<nsadmin>I'm dooing android dev, and the phone when plugged in doesn't have perms... I already added myself to the group but that was a nogo
04:53<nsadmin>it's /dev/ttyACM0
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04:53<nsadmin>the ubuntu instructions suggest setting the perms to 0666
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04:54<nsadmin>zooming out, I want to understand udev more (than perhaps none)
04:56<jm_>try something like udevadm info --name=ttyACM0 --query=all
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05:04<nsadmin>knowing that debian is not ubuntu, I can't trust either, so that;s why I want to find SUBSYSTEM values
05:04<nsadmin>what'd I miss?
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05:08<nsadmin>jm_, what was the last thing you saw before I disconnected?
05:08<jm_>nsadmin: 10:54 <nsadmin> zooming out, I want to understand udev more (than perhaps none)
05:09<jm_>10:56 <jm_> try something like udevadm info --name=ttyACM0 --query=all
05:09<nsadmin>ok, thanks... I'll try that now
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05:11<nsadmin>hmm. SUBSYSTEM=tty
05:12<jm_>makes sense yes, it even says tty* :)
05:13<nsadmin>true but I wonder why the instructions say usb or usb_device
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05:15<nsadmin>how can I find SYSFS{idVendor}?
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05:18<jm_>nsadmin: you probably need to specify it via stuff in /sys
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05:30<nsadmin>the phrases in the rules look like perl hashes... are they?
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05:30<jm_>I think not
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05:32<nsadmin>it's like you could split the lines at commas and then feed each to an interp
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05:56<jlewka>всем привет
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05:57<dpkg>Russian speakers, please use (Pogalujsta, zajdite na) (Pazhaluista, zahodite na) #debian-russian @ or use English here.
05:58<daemonkeeper>Unless you actually can read this, this could be much more than Russian :)
05:58<jm_>actually I can - it was vsem privet ;)
05:59<daemonkeeper>Oh, never mind then ;)
05:59<nsadmin>if you can read this, you're much too close to the screen...
06:00<jlewka>i'am very very bad know english...
06:01<jlewka>russian channel sleep (
06:01<jm_>did you try it on or here?
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06:03<jlewka>russian channel on is empty
06:03<kelsoo>Try oftc
06:04<jlewka>ok, my problems, i'am install debian 6.01a but OS not load
06:04<petemc>jlewka: no it isnt
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06:06<jlewka>call trace:
06:06<nsadmin>apparantly it's not /dev/ttyACM0; on a machine this works on, the permissions are the same
06:07<jm_>nsadmin: what error do you see?
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06:08<nsadmin>it's not so much an error message per se but a result on eclipse when I go to run a project
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06:25<idank>how would I go about tracking down the cause of system hangs (black screen, doesn't respond) I've been experiencing lately?
06:25<idank>it all started when I reinstalled Squeeze on an Intel SSD
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06:26<vook>idank: dmesg
06:26<dpkg>dmesg is used to examine or control the kernel ring buffer. /var/log/dmesg gives you the whole thing from boot time. `dmesg' shows you current ring buffer contents.
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06:27<vook>idank: and /var/log
06:28<idank>hmm, seems like you need a linux guru friend to make something out of those
06:29<idank>but I'll try
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06:34<jm_>idank: did you check if keyboard leds flash when this happens?
06:34<idank>jm_: don't think I've tried that, mouse cursor doesn't move though
06:35<idank>if they do, what does that tell me?
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06:35<jm_>idank: ok do check that, and if you have another computer try setting up netconsole
06:35<jm_>idank: kernel panic
06:35<jm_>also try ping it from another machine
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06:46<nsadmin>is there a log I can watch to see udev rules firing?
06:46<vook>idank: perhaps try pastebin the contents of /var/log/dmesg.0 or dmesg.1.gz (to
06:46-!-DrGkill [] has joined #debian
06:47<mobildorn>Have a look at the command 'udevadm', especially the parameter 'monitor'
06:48<jm_>nsadmin: udevd --debug I believe
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06:51<vook>idank: lets see the contents of an older log (gunzip dmesg.2.gz)
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06:53<idank>vook: .2 seems to be 2 days old
06:54<idank>I got a hang just a couple of hours ago
06:54<vook>is that what you posted ?
06:54<idank>I posted dmesg.0
06:54<idank>last modified 2 hours ago
06:55<idank>there's also dmesg, last modified 1 hour ago
06:55<jm_>dmesg is written to after the boot, you won't find it there
06:56<idank>jm_: anything I can do on the hanging machine to get more logs the next time it happens?
06:56-!-uva [] has joined #debian
06:56<idank>or where to look right after it
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06:56<jm_>idank: the things I mentioned above - try to login remotely, try to ping it, netconsole
06:57<jm_>if login works, run dmesg and see what it says
06:57<vook>idank: jm_
06:58<idank>jm_: ok and if none of those work? what are my options?
06:59<jm_>idank: netconsole often works for this, the worst case you use serial console, but if even that fails, it's something even more drastic (i.e. if it panics in interrupt handler or somesuch); perhaps try to reproduce it without X if you can
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07:00<jm_>I will be away for a while now
07:00<idank>thanks for the tips
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07:06<orga>anybody home?
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07:08<dpkg>Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
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07:09<orga>which channel is the best?
07:09<nsadmin>the one you make
07:09<orga>why everybody is leaving?
07:09<nsadmin>they have real lives
07:09<daemonkeeper>orga, do you have a question?
07:10<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
07:10<orga>i have a question
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07:10<orga>do all people here using debian?
07:10<nsadmin>if you're not, then no
07:10<devil>now, that is far fetched... :)
07:11<orga>i am using debian now
07:11<daemonkeeper>orga, please note #debian is no social chat. This is the wrong channel for general chit chat and off topic discussions. This channel is exclusively for Debian support questions
07:11<devil>that makes us 2, kind of
07:11<orga>then i am in the right channel
07:11<nsadmin>2 of kind?
07:12*devil tries to be kind
07:12<orga>i have problem setting both my wifi card and ethernet card
07:12<devil>but we are OT
07:12<devil>orga: with squeeze?
07:12<nsadmin>orga: why?
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07:12<orga>i tried to use eth0 and wlan0 at the same time
07:13<nsadmin>orga: why?
07:13<orga>meaning, i want to use both network
07:13<nsadmin>orga: why?
07:13<devil>not at the same time
07:13<orga>the problem is, why it cannot be done?
07:13<nsadmin>it depends on what you want to do
07:13<daemonkeeper>It can, what makes you think you couldn't
07:14<petemc>because it didnt just work by magic
07:14<orga>if i got connected to eth0, my wlan0 got disconnected
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07:14<daemonkeeper>Do you connect to the same network?
07:14<orga>and when wlan0 got connected, my eth0 got disconnected
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07:14<nsadmin>unless you say exactly how you want your net to work there's not much can be done or said
07:14<orga>no..different network
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07:15<orga>my wlan0 is for internet
07:15<daemonkeeper> Then follow nsadmins advise, tell us more. Notably how you configured your network.
07:15<orga>my eth0 is for LAN
07:15<nsadmin>so you want to have a wired internal net?
07:16<orga>my wifi is not really a problem since it uses DHCP
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07:16<orga>i want to have both network all together
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07:16<orga>my eth0 uses static IP
07:16<petemc>google for linux multihome
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07:17<nsadmin>you can't really do that, but you may be able to get the -effect- you want
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07:17<orga>what do you mean?
07:18<nsadmin>it looks like your machine with wlan0 and eth0 will be a gateway
07:18<orga>is there any tools can do it like i want it?
07:18<nsadmin>that is... it will be the machine through which the wired traffic passes
07:18<nsadmin>there used to be ipmasq
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07:19<orga>can it be apt-getted?
07:19<nsadmin>no you probably have to get the source pkg from lenny and build it
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07:19<orga>what is the address, i mean URL
07:19<petemc>i dont think ipmasq is exactly whats needed here..
07:20<orga>what do you have in mind
07:20<nsadmin>he does need more than that, a dhcp for his internal net and a dns
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07:20<petemc>what are you talking about nsadmin ?
07:20<petemc>this is a routing issue
07:21<orga>i want to have both internet connection and LAN at the same time
07:22<nsadmin>but he hasn't specified everything exactly, probably because he doesn't know all the pieces he needs to make the internal net work
07:22<nsadmin>will lan have access to the internet?
07:22<orga>i know how to set static IP
07:22<orga>nope..the LAN dont have internet access
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07:22<orga>but the Wifi do
07:22<nsadmin>what static IP did you set for the eth0?
07:23<nsadmin>so you need an unroutable subnet for your lan
07:23<orga>internal IPs...such as 20.61.14.XXX with net mask
07:24<nsadmin>who owns that IP range
07:24<orga>my problem is, i cannot have both network at the same time
07:24<orga>my work place
07:24<nsadmin>that can't be your internals
07:25<orga>that is what given by my IT officers
07:25<nsadmin>unless you have an actual static sbnet
07:25<orga>however the wifi is pretty straight forward...DHCP
07:26<nsadmin>it looks like the kind of routing you need is beyond my capability
07:27<orga>sounds really complicated...
07:27<nsadmin>not sure how you can get a routable subnet inside unless it's routed in thru the wireless
07:27<nsadmin>do your IT officers say your 20.* comes in via the wireless?
07:27<orga>as i said, when my eth0 got connected, my wifi got disconnected
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07:28<orga>and vice versa
07:28<nsadmin>that's not what I asked
07:28<nsadmin>do your IT officers say your 20.* comes in via the wireless?
07:28<babilen>orga: btw - what do you use to configure your interfaces?
07:28<orga>no...the 20.* not via wireless
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07:28<nsadmin>so the 20.* is ONLY for internal use?
07:29<orga>Wicd network manager
07:29<orga>20.* only for internal use
07:29<nsadmin>do machines on the 20* use the internet?
07:29<orga>no...they dont
07:29<babilen>orga: You might want to configure your interfaces in /etc/network/interfaces (see "man interfaces" and /usr/share/doc/wpasupplicant/README.modes.gz)
07:30<orga>babilen, i did that
07:30<nsadmin>so you actually do -not- need a gateway
07:30<nsadmin>you just want a machine to be on both nets
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07:30<orga> are correct nsadmin
07:31<nsadmin>machines on the 20.* also do not use dns, right?
07:31<babilen>orga: and?
07:31<orga>actually they have internal DNS...but only for internal use
07:32<orga>babilen, when wired got connected, my wifi got disconnected
07:32<nsadmin>orga: what would be wrong with having two machines, one on the internal one on wireless
07:32<orga>and when wifi got connected, wired got disconnected
07:33<babilen>orga: How did you configure the wireless network? Which mode did you opt for?
07:34<orga>it is not wrong, but it makes my work a bit harder
07:35<nsadmin>orga: so after pulling most of your teeth, people here finally have a better idea of what you want. it's not usual, and if you're going to ask about it anywhere, you need to tell them all these details
07:35<orga>i have job to do using the internal network...but sometimes i need to access internet to ease my work
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07:36<orga>my wireless network can be connected easily, as it uses DHCP
07:36<babilen>orga: So you are saying that the wireless interface is automatically taken down whenever you bring up the wired one? (same if you use wicd and configure your interfaces in /e/n/i)
07:36<orga>babilen: you are right
07:36<babilen>orga: How did you configure your wireless network without wicd?
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07:38<orga>never did that...since i just got connected to wifi by using wicd
07:38<orga>but when i want to use both wired and wifi at the same time, one of them will be disconnected
07:39<babilen>orga: That was not was I was talking about. Please try it without using wicd
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07:40<orga>nsadmin, anything to add?
07:40<orga>babilen: is there other tools than wicd?
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07:41<babilen>orga: yes, wpasupplicant -- Read the README.modes i mentioned earlier.
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07:42<babilen>orga: If your network is not WPA encrypted you don't need wpasupplicant though
07:42<orga>FYI, my wifi network uses open WEP or WPA
07:43<babilen>orga: Ah, ok -- even easier -- See /usr/share/doc/wireless-tools/README.Debian for a short overview of your options (you basically just need wireless-essid in /e/n/i + dhcp)
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07:44<orga>oo..i will do that
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07:48<mBull>can someone help me with a small problem about /proc
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07:49<babilen>Probably -- You have to tell us what the problem is though :)
07:49<mBull>i'm looking for a one liner to create the percentage the system was idle (/proc/uptime | cut -d " " -f2)
07:50<jm_>you seem to have already found it
07:50<mBull>no it's a part of it
07:50<mBull>this one liner gives me the seconds
07:51<jm_>and you need what exactly?
07:51<mBull>but i need to compare it to the total uptime and have it return the percentage the system was idle
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07:52<jm_>as in awk '{printf("%.2d\n", $1/$2*100)}' /proc/uptime
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07:53<mBull>yes but this gives me 111% idle :s
07:53<jm_>let me find out what the contents of the file are
07:53<mBull>in /proc/uptime there are 2 values
07:54<mBull>first value is uptime time since last boot, and 2nd number is the amout of time the system was idle (both in seconds)
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07:55<jm_>that can't be true - the second value is bigger here :)
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07:56<jm_>that's why I calculated it as $1/$2*100
07:56<mBull>strange i looked it up more then once
07:56<mBull>hmmm :s
07:56<mBull>and my 2nd value is smaller then the first one
07:56<mBull>3th opinion someone?
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07:56<Naznaz>Hi, is it possible to have samba share home folders with authentication AND one separate folder accessible from public, without authentication? I know that each of them is possible, but are both combined also possible? And if yes, how? Thanks
07:56<jm_>that's what man page says too yes, but I wonder why the second number is bigger for me
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07:57<jm_>ahh maybe the second number depends on number of CPU-s?
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07:58<jm_>Naznaz: you can set guest OK per service AFAIK
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07:58<Naznaz>jm_, ah okay, I'll try that, thanks
07:59<mBull>jm_ when i switched the $2 and the $1 in your calculations it worked
07:59<mBull>it gave me a number of 89%
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08:00<mBull>what is correct
08:00<mBull>we could do an strace of uptime to find out if it depends of the amount of cpu's
08:00<jm_>mBull: good question, I have no idea, I suppose looking in kernel source would reveal the answer but I don't feel like doing that now
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08:01<mBull>neither do I :)
08:01<mBull>not enough expierenced to do it
08:02<mBull>just learning unix as we speak :)
08:02<jm_>yeah I see it:
08:02<jm_> for_each_possible_cpu(i)
08:02<jm_> idletime = cputime64_add(idletime, kstat_cpu(i).cpustat.idle);
08:02<jm_>so it is for all cpu-s
08:04<mBull>ok :)
08:04<mBull>thanks jm_
08:05<jm_>mBull: so this means you can only get average idle time with the above
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08:08<jm_>this is a crude hack:
08:08<jm_>awk -v NR_CPU=$(grep -c '^processor.*:' /proc/cpuinfo) '{printf("%.2f\n", ($1+0.0000001)/$2*100/NR_CPU)}' /proc/uptime
08:09<jm_>that +0.0001 is not needed
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08:09<mBull>thats a nice one
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08:18<Stemby>why this bug is not present in this list ?
08:19<jm_>possibly because it's very new
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08:44<nsadmin>well I found it
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08:45<nsadmin>obscure rule that set all usb_device to 0664 no matter what other rule matches
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09:39<swagner>hi, i can't find the package python-setuptools for debian lenny. was it renamed?
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09:44<cthuluh>,versions python-setuptools
09:44<judd>Package python-setuptools on i386 -- lenny: 0.6c8-4; squeeze: 0.6.14-4; sid: 0.6.15-1; wheezy: 0.6.15-1
09:45<cthuluh>weird version number
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10:15-!-arw is "arw" on #debian-es-cachondeo @+#linux-es #debian-mentors-es #debian-es #debian
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10:41<flalin>we had another, a bit smaller earthquake in Japan
10:41<nsadmin>when? how strong?
10:42<flalin>a few minutes ago
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10:44<nsadmin>that was seriosly useless, to me anyway :)
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12:09<ballison>I'm trying to update nessus to the newest version. I'm currently running Lenny. When I do a 'apt-get update ; apt-get install nessus" it tells me there's nothing to install that I'm already at the newest version. But when I do a "dpkg -l |grep nessus" i see I'm running version 4.0.1, and I know they are up to at least version 4.4 now. so how do i upgrade my version of nessus without upgrading the whole OS ?
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12:11<daemonkeeper>judd: versions nessus
12:11<judd>Package nessus on i386 -- lenny: 2.2.10-3
12:11<dpkg>Nessus is a proprietary vulnerability scanner. Previously GPL licensed until Nessus 3, removed from Debian post-Lenny to resolve bug #534501. Ask me about <openvas>.
12:11<daemonkeeper>Even better
12:12<ballison>daemonkeeper: well that doesn't make since. I'm running version 4.0.1 (I did not install this system, it was handed to me).
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12:12<daemonkeeper>You might use out-of-tree packages then
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12:19<r4co0n>ballison: From the bug report: "The OpenVAS fork provides an equivalent tool. However, since OpenVAS is not a drop in replacement for Nessus there is no easy way to provide a migration path through the package management system." You might want to try OpenVAS. Sorry if that's a bad suggestion...
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13:14<kreuk>hi all
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13:29*agentc is sorry about his psycho-tilt yesterday/today-morning. i hope i wasnt too strange. ;)
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13:32<retrospectacus>!forgive agentc
13:32<dpkg>Well, agentc boy, I guess I could do that. But I believe forgiving is God's job, I'm just arranging the meeting. *blows agentc head apart with .44 magnum*
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13:34<agentc>dpkg: thanks retrospectacus
13:34<dpkg>agentc: no worries
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13:34<SynrG>^^ evidence dpkg is run by skynet
13:35<agentc>retrospectacus: did the other one "jg....?" solves his grub-problem ?
13:36<agentc>retrospectacus: as he triid the rescue console of the install-disk, he hadnt grub-install nor aptitude for network installing
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13:36<agentc>retrospectacus: i wondered about, cause grub is present on the install-disk of debian
13:37<retrospectacus>Not sure. I don't think I was around to see the end of that guy
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13:40<mehdi_>hey fellas in this link how can i stop autogen :
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13:41<retrospectacus>mehdi_: you mean autoneg?
13:41<retrospectacus>the article says ethtool -s eth0 autoneg off
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13:43<retrospectacus>mehdi_: actually that is in the comments, not the article
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13:49<mehdi_>@<retospectacus> means its crap?
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13:50<retrospectacus>mehdi_: I'm here to help you use debian, not rate web articles
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13:51<mehdi_>hey guys this question really makes me wonder wat are the differences between ubuntu and debian? :D
13:52<ompaul>mehdi_: go use both and come back enlightened
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13:52<s_i_m>heh :)
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13:53*ompaul wonders of mehdi_ wants to to do a source and version package by package compare or something much more high level by remote control across IRC :-)
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13:54<mehdi_>actually i didnt c much comparison except design and install process
13:54<retrospectacus>Debian is made by a community of users interested in a free and useful OS. Ubuntu is an extensively modified version of Debian made by a corporation interested in making money.
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13:56<mehdi_>but ubuntu says its free and always will be how can they make money?
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13:57<ompaul>mehdi_: go ask canonical on their web site in the mean time if you have a debian specific comment please make it but compare and contrast is not this channels objective
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14:07<Proletar>Let's see... How will Debian react to moving a pre-installed OS on a HDD over to a different system, in terms of drivers?
14:07<Proletar>Will it reconf the base system or do I have to re-install?
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14:08<tharkun>Proletar: I've taken an hdd from one server and installed it on a desktop. It recognized everything. The only caveat was the wired nick instead of beeing called eth0 now it is called eth1
14:09<Proletar>Sounds good
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14:09<Nemoder>Proletar: you might check what hardware the new system has and make sure any firmeware packages etc are installed first before copying
14:10<devil>Proletar: you need to edit fstab and maybe adjust gfx drivers.
14:10<Proletar>Worst case scenario I can just move the drive back to the old system right?
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14:11<devil>Proletar: i did this move many times, it always worked,
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14:12<devil>last one was 3 days ago. needed to remove nvidia crap and adjust fstab. tada.
14:12<mehdi_>i use ppoe can i make my connection speed go higher?
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14:13<Proletar>Well it's a CLI only system so I doubt I'll even need to tweak that
14:13<Proletar>I'll poke fstab though, thankers spankers people
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14:37<mehdi_>dudes i check some sites and find out the kernel and design are seprated rite?
14:37<kop>mehdi_: What do you mean?
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14:38<ompaul>mehdi_: I think you are much mistaken, this is not a search engine.
14:38<ompaul>mehdi_: (go look at and get a real feel for the kernel
14:38<mehdi_>i mean when i dl kernel i dont have any Gnome or any good look OS only rite?
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14:39<arand>mehdi_: Not really no
14:39<kop>mehdi_: You need to use wikipedia and look up "kernel" and "computer program".
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14:41<phillipsjk>mehdi_, You are refering to X Window managers and Desktop environments.
14:41<mehdi_>yea philip
14:41<kop>mehdi_: Perhaps "operating system" also.
14:41<mehdi_>i wanto have my own linux distro
14:42<kop>mehdi_: Ah. Then you want the #linux channel on This channel is for questions about Debian.
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14:42<acu>howdo I start vino-preferences through ssh ? --- ssh -X acu@ipaddress vino-preferences ?
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14:42<mehdi_>tanx kop
14:43<kop>acu: Looks right to me.
14:43<kop>acu: Or perhaps -Y instead of -X.
14:43<llp>Does some know where to get a hold of a debian lenny install iso??
14:44<retrospectacus>!lenny iso
14:44<dpkg>Links to Debian GNU/Linux 5.0 ("Lenny") installation images are provided at . Note that Lenny has been superseded by Squeeze, ask me about <install squeeze>. See also <errata lenny> and <lenny install guide>.
14:44<kop>llp: But why?
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14:49<llp>thanks retrospectacus ;)
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14:55<llp>kop, need to set up a test bed for merging a system to squeeze...
14:55<daemonkeeper>Well, as long as Lenny gets security support there is nothing wrong to keep stuck with Lenny, if you have a lot of other Lenny systems and you want to keep things homogeneous.
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14:58<galen>Anybody know of a good terminal emulator for gnome?
14:59<retrospectacus>besides gnome-terminal?
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15:00<retrospectacus>galen: what are you looking for that gnome-terminal is insufficient?
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15:01<galen>I have looked at awesome and wmii for desktop replacement. Unfortunatly gnome-terminal does not fit so good in there
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15:03<MrFrood>galen: try one of the *rxvt type terminals = they seem to be the most popular with tilers
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15:04<edgarx>do you speak spanish?
15:04<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
15:04<galen>I am forever looking for a way to get rid of the mouse.
15:04<galen>Just use the keyboard.
15:05<MrFrood>galen: a good tiling setup will do that
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15:06<MrFrood>galen: I use rxvt-unicode in a client/server set up with my dwm set up
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15:07<galen>How do you configure rxvt-unicode?
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15:09<MrFrood>galen: best way is to put the settings in an Xdefaults file but you can use flags on the urxvt command - the man page is pretty good plus google will give you lots of examples
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15:10<galen>MrFood, Thanks will have a look.
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15:11<galen>Any tips using dwm?
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15:12<MrFrood>galen: start with something a bit more user friendly like wimii
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15:13<galen>I like wmii, nice default keys, and many ways to configure
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15:13<nathan>Hi. I have just upgraded to squeeze but when i boot on the new kernel, i get an error about xorg. The Xorg.log file is really hard to handle to me
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15:14<nathan>it seems to mess about my nvidia drivers but when i try to reinstall it on the new kernel i also get an error
15:14<MrFrood>galen: dwm is reconfigured by editing the source code and recompiling so not a good first tiling wm
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15:15<nathan>here is my nvidia log file :
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15:16<nathan>where the kernel sources re located on the 2.6.32 kernel?
15:17<MrFrood>nathan: if you are using the offical nvidia drivers you need to disable kms - on that not I'm off for some food
15:17<nathan>MrFrood, kms?
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15:18<MrFrood>dpkg: tell nathan about kms
15:18*MrFrood is now having dinner
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15:37<nathan>MrFrood, tell me when you re back. I don't have this file in my modprobe.d repository
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15:42<sney>nathan: how did you install the nvidia drivers? with dkms?
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15:42<nathan>sney, no... with the run file provided by nvidia
15:42<nathan>i did it on the 2.6.26 kernel
15:42<nathan>i have to do it again on the new one?
15:42<sney>nathan: ah, that explains it. the nvidia installer can break a lot of things, especially in squeeze
15:43<sney>no, follow these instructions instead:
15:43<sney>!nvidia dkms
15:43<dpkg>For Squeeze users. Ask me about <contrib> and <non-free sources>. "aptitude -r install linux-headers-2.6-`uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,'` nvidia-kernel-dkms && mkdir /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d ; echo -e 'Section "Device"\n\tIdentifier "My GPU"\n\tDriver "nvidia"\nEndSection' > /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nvidia.conf". Restart your system to enable the <nouveau> blacklist. For legacy drivers, see <nvidia dkms-173xx> and <nvidia dkms-96xx>.
15:43<sney>if any of that is confusing just ask
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15:43<nathan>sney, ok thanks
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15:44<nathan>i can do it on my old kernel?
15:44<nathan>(the one i m currently using)
15:44<XeonBloomfield>nathan: Use new kernel! Argh...
15:44<nathan>i don't have graphics on the new one <<
15:44<nathan>it s annoyinh
15:45<XeonBloomfield>nathan: I had problem with my Radeon HD5770 (Desktop) on Debian 5
15:45<chealer>nathan: Debian kernel images don't come with source. the source is packaged in linux-source
15:45<sney>nathan: so write down the directions, boot into 2.6.32, and do it through the console
15:45<XeonBloomfield>nathan: Squeeze makes it really easier to make it working
15:45<sney>chealer: what he'd need anyway is the *headers* which dkms pulls in as a dependency
15:45<nathan>sney, ok but i m not able to set my wifi connection on the new kernel : D
15:46<nathan>because i don't have graphics to use wicd
15:46<otypoks_>nathan: try wicd-curses
15:47<sney>or do aptitude -d install nvidia-kernel-dkms linux-headers-2.6.32-5-686
15:47<sney>that'll just download the stuff then you can do the rest without network
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15:48<chealer>sney: I was just answering his question, but he's most certainly doing it wrong indeed :-S
15:49<sney>chealer: at least it's not another inadvisable sid install with a udev problem.
15:50<sney>nathan: anyway, this may be a little annoying the first time around but it'll keep your nvidia drivers up to date with any future kernel updates so it's worth it
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15:51<nathan>sney, ok. Thanks. I ll reboot on the new kernel and try to make it working. See you.
15:52<sney>good luck
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16:06<pthree>post lenny->squeeze identd/pidentd stopped working. I reconfigured/removed/reinstalled and replaced with oidentd, but identd won't respond
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16:07<pthree>nmap from an external host shows port 113 open
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16:08<pthree>does anyone have any experience with this?
16:09<speaker>hello all.. hope you can help a new tablet pc user
16:10<speaker>Any good distro-that works on a Gateway m275 Seriel tablet
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16:10<nathan_>sney, hey :)
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16:11<nathan_>so i think it s ok! thanks.
16:11<nathan_>however, i have another problem now :)
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16:14<nathan_>I want to set my wifi connection but my eth1 interface isn t shown by ifconfig.
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16:15<nathan_>I add it into the interfaces file but when i type ifup eth1 it returns that there is no device found
16:15<nathan_>my broadcom card isn't detected?
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16:16<nathan_>i ve installed b43-fwcutter packages
16:16<nathan_>i missed something?
16:16<nathan_>lspici | grep Broad returns : 02:00.0 Network controller: Broadcom Corporation BCM4312 802.11b/g LP-PHY (rev 01)
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16:20<dpkg>The Broadcom BCM4312 (PCI-ID 14e4:4315) is a PCI-E 802.11g wireless LAN chipset with a low-power PHY, supported by <b43> as of Linux 2.6.32. Firmware is required, ask me about <contrib> and install the firmware-b43-lpphy-installer package to provide. Lenny users, see <bcm4312 lenny>. Alternatively supported by <wl>. PCI-ID 14e4:4312 is a BCM4311 chipset, requiring firmware-b43-installer.
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16:23<nathan_>when i try to install the package
16:23<retrospectacus>,pciid 14e4:4315
16:23<judd>[14e4:4315] is 'BCM4312 802.11b/g LP-PHY' from 'Broadcom Corporation' with kernel module 'ssb' in squeeze. See also and the out-of-tree 'wl' module.
16:24<retrospectacus>nathan_: are you running lenny?
16:24<nathan_>retrospectacus, i m currently running squeeze
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16:26<retrospectacus>ok well I don't know where you got firmware-b43legacy-installer but it's not what you want, as indicated in your paste
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16:26<nathan_>what C state mean in aptitude?
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16:27<nathan_>and c state
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16:28<nathan_>but, how you can know if a device is detected?
16:29<nathan_>maybe the problem come from my interfaces configuration
16:29<retrospectacus>nathan_: you just want firmware-b43-lpphy-installer
16:29<retrospectacus>ifconfig -a
16:29<retrospectacus>I am not familiar with that output, I don't use aptitude
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16:31<nathan_>retrospectacus, ifconfig don't show anything about eth1
16:31<kop>nathan_: c means that the package has been removed but configuration file remain. To get rid of them you must purge the package.
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16:33<retrospectacus>nathan_: no wlan0 or etc. either?
16:33<nathan_>retrospectacus, eth0
16:33<nathan_>for ethernet
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16:33<nathan_>how can i properly clean the config file of a package?
16:34<retrospectacus>kop just told you
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16:37<nathan_>ok i think i ll stop here for now
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16:37<retrospectacus>nathan_: should "just work" - you want the "lpphy" version
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16:57<lord_rob>Hi ! Are there bittorrents clients that support udp torrent ?
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16:57<lord_rob>(On Debian of course)
16:57<josephseraos>hi there, I've installed Debian Squeeze yesterday, and I can't listner and watch video. What do I have install do listner to sound and watch some videos?
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16:58<jhutchins_lt>lord_rob: aptitude search ~dtorrent ?
16:58<lord_rob>josephseraos: usually debian has not enough packages to do that (too much restrictions)
16:59<babilen>josephseraos: A media player like vlc or mplayer is probably a good idea for videos. There are various media players and you have to specify what you are looking for.
16:59<jhutchins_lt>josephseraos: Depends. What kind of sound? What kind of videos? Do you want streamtuner, mplayer, or real audio?
17:00<josephseraos>well, there's one player installed, babilen, but it says: The playback of this movie requires a Advanced Streaming Format (ASF) demuxer plugin which is not installed.
17:00<babilen>lord_rob: That is quite an exaggeration
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17:00<jhutchins_lt>mpg123 will play mp3's.
17:00<babilen>josephseraos: Which player is that?
17:00<josephseraos>jhutchins_lt, I want listener mp3, wma, wmv, flv, etc...
17:00<josephseraos>babilen, Movie Player
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17:01<josephseraos>hey, when I start the system, it sounds just a bip, like "bup" sound. Understand?
17:01<jhutchins_lt>mplayer's the most reliable video player, if you get it from debian-multimedia I think it even does flash, but for some flash there's no substitute for Adobe's player.
17:01<babilen>josephseraos: I would try vlc and mplayer. They are far superior. The "Movie Player" you are referring to is most likely Totem and you might want to install the gstreamer0.10-plugins-* packages. (if not already installed)
17:02<josephseraos>I think I'll install vlc, but my connetion is not so fast
17:02<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
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17:02<jhutchins_lt>Also available in spanish.
17:02<josephseraos>babilen, jhutchins_lt Thank you, I'm trying to install.. Thanks a lot
17:02<babilen>josephseraos: Enjoy :)
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17:04<josephseraos>babilen, if I install gstream0.10-, do I have to install all packages?
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17:05<babilen>josephseraos: What do you mean by "all packages" -- You might want to paste the list to -- I was referring to the gstreamer0.10-plugins-{good,bad,ugly,base} packages
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17:10<Gurka>has the "alsaconf" command disappeared in newer debian?
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17:11<dpkg>alsaconf is a formerly included <ALSA> configuration tool to detect sound cards. Removed from the alsa-utils package at version 1.0.17-1: "The only valid use-case for alsaconf is aiding the configuration of ISA sound cards." Ask me about <install alsa>, <alsa checklist>, <default alsa>. See also
17:11<Gurka>aha, thx
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17:14<Gurka>I thought alsaconf was great...
17:14<sney>it probably wouldn't be too much of a headache to build it yourself
17:15<Gurka>I'm sure it would, the reason asking about alsaconf is because I don't now how to get my soundcard to work
17:16<jhutchins_lt>Gurka: Do you have an ISA sound card?
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17:16<Gurka>jhutchins_lt: no, I have an ALC892 chip on my GA-H55N-USB3 motherboard, it's quite new
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17:17<Gurka>I have no idea how to configure alsa, but I'm googling atm
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17:18<mjt>one don't configure it these days, it works out of the box
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17:18<jhutchins_lt>Gurka: Then you don't need alsaconf.
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17:18<Gurka>aha, jsut found "alsactl init"
17:18<babilen>!install alsa
17:18<dpkg>"aptitude -r install alsa-utils". After package installation, run alsamixer and unmute the volume levels. Some applications don't know how to talk directly to ALSA, see <devdsp>. You may also need to install libesd-alsa0 if you're using ESD-based applications on Lenny. Some ALSA drivers require firmware from userspace, ask me about <alsa firmware>. To set the default sound card, ask me about <default alsa>.
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17:19<mjt>alc892 shuold be well-supported
17:21<sney>yeah, should Just Work(tm), just need to add your user to the 'audio' group and make sure nothing is muted
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17:23<Gurka>what's "ESD-based applications"? (I don't run lenny, but I wanna know anyway)
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17:24<george_>Gurka, ESD = Enlightenment Sound Daemon, what Pulse replaces
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17:27<Gurka>well, there's sound comin from the 3,5mm jack alright now
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17:27<Gurka>now onto the next mission: getting SPDIF to work. Where do I start?
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17:35<sney>Gurka: should just work but it's probably muted by default. check alsamixer.
17:36<Gurka>isn't weird if there's 7.1 sound, mic and headphone jacks and SPDIF on your motherboard and ther's just "Master" and "SPDIF" channels in alsamixer?
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17:36<jhutchins_lt>Gurka: Sounds like you've got pulseaudio
17:37<Gurka>sney: it's not muted, but the SPDIF channel just have Muted or '00'
17:37<babilen>Gurka: If that is the case, install and run "pavucontrol"
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17:38<Gurka>jhutchins_lt: is pulseaudio a good or a bad thingy?
17:38<Gurka>babilen: I don't have xorg, it's a headless music server
17:38<jhutchins_lt>Gurka: In very rare circumstances it's a good thing.
17:39<Gurka>jhutchins_lt: how do I get rid of it?
17:39<jhutchins_lt>aptitude purge pulseaudio
17:40<jhutchins_lt>Unfortunately aptitude beat-to-death-with-crowbar pulseaudio doesn't work.
17:40<Gurka>"No packages will be installed, upgraded, or removed." seems like pulseaudio wasn't the case
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17:42<babilen>Gurka: ACK
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17:53<bluenemo>hi guys, does anyone of you have dc3dd 7 as .deb? i really need it, would be awesome if you can help me
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17:55<tsoliman>bluenemo: where do you normally get it?
17:56<bluenemo>i normaly compile it (download from sourceforge) but i need it to build a live usb stick. therefore a .deb is much more comfortable
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17:56<babilen>I guess directly from upstream -- It has not yet been packaged for Debian (#468958)
17:57<devil>bluenemo: checkinstall will give you a basic deb for that purpose
17:57<dpkg>CheckInstall is a program that tracks all files installed by "make install" (or equivalent), creates a Debian (or other) package with those files, and adds it to the installed packages database, allowing for easy package removal or distribution. See also <stow>.
17:57<tsoliman>devil: yep I was going to say that :)
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17:58<devil>i usualy do not recomment checkinstall, but in this case its the easiest way
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17:58<tsoliman>I used it for a year then I read the packaging guide and now use dh_make
17:58<bluenemo>ah ok thanks.. damit i got it from D-fence but deleted it sadly :/
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17:58<babilen>tsoliman: That is most definitely the better approach. ;)
17:58<bluenemo>dh_make creates a deb?
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17:59<tsoliman>bluenemo: don't worry about dh_make
17:59<tsoliman>baby steps :)
17:59<tsoliman>if you find yourself doing checkinstall all the time then you may consider actually packaging these packages for other users ..
18:00<babilen>bluenemo: dh_make is for the initial "debianisation" of an upstream release. You'll still have to work on the packaging as detailed in the new maintainers guide, but that is probably overkill unless you want to package it for Debian
18:00<tsoliman>that's when you read a lot of reading material .. learn about packaging guidelines .. :) dh_make is the first step
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18:00<devil>...and in a few weeks you have your first clean deb :)
18:01<tsoliman>devil: so true ...
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18:01<babilen>... and in a few months you have it sponsored and included in debian
18:01<bluenemo>well i only want to build a small live stick, which shall wipe hdd's so it needs dc3dd. only for me and my customers maybe
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18:01*tsoliman looks back at relics in old packaging projects and cringes
18:02<daemonkeeper>dh_make is a way to get started, experienced maintainers probably will use their own templates.
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18:02<daemonkeeper>Basically dh_make just creates a skeleton
18:02<tsoliman>bluenemo: stick with checkinstall I think .. it is a quick and dirty way to get this done
18:02<babilen>!tell bluenemo -about nmg
18:03<bluenemo>nothing arrived here babilen. i'll stick with checkinstall (which seems interesting for compiling stuff as well :) thx guys
18:03<tsoliman>babilen: I really wanted to log ITPs for a bunch of the things I packaged but I don't have the time to be a primary on it
18:03<babilen>bluenemo: Read the New Maintainers Guide if you are interested in learning how to do this. Ask in #debian-mentors if you have questions or run into problems. It would be welcomed if you consider packaging this tool for Debian. :)
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18:04<bluenemo>well D-fence already had a very nice deb for dc3dd and gave it to me but i deleted it (i suck) :(
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18:04<tsoliman>and others beat me to packaging most of them anyway .. the ones where no one beat me were DFSG non-free
18:04<babilen>bluenemo: Can't you ask "D-fence" to make it available again?
18:05<bluenemo>he was about to (he is from #debian-forensics and #debian-live mostly)
18:05<ml|>worth a read... before reading nmg
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18:06<bluenemo>cool thank you guys, i'll go through that when i'm finished with my current project :)
18:07<babilen>have fun!
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18:08<daemonkeeper>You may just hope a sponsor has pity with you then
18:08<bluenemo>i have a cute name, ppl like me :D
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18:09<Mike632T>Can anyone tell me how to fix the order in which squeeze loads two modules (both audio). I don't want to blacklist one, but simply ensure it always loads second - and how do I find out the correct module names to use anyway...?
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18:10<tsoliman>I want to say to force-load them in order by using /etc/modules
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18:10<tsoliman>are you doing this so that the order of the soundcards is a specific way? There's other ways to do this if that's the case
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18:11<Gurka>If I don't have an /etc/asound.conf file, is it just too create it and fill it with your stuff?
18:11<Mike632T>tsoliman: yes
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18:12<tsoliman>to get the module names, one way is to do this: lsmod | grep snd_
18:12<tsoliman>once you've figured out the module names, you then add the index=0 and index=1 options to them in /etc/modprobe.d/
18:12<babilen>Mike632T: Was that "Yes, I do this to force a soundcard to grab a specific index" ?
18:13<babilen>Hmm, guess so :)
18:13<tsoliman>so for example you'd have a file there that contains the line: options snd-hda-intel index=0
18:13<tsoliman>babilen: I belive he is annoyed by the changing order of soundcards
18:14<babilen>tsoliman: yup -- I just wanted to make sure that is actually the case :)
18:14*tsoliman wonders whatever happened to alsaconf
18:14<babilen>Gurka: Yes, ~/.asoundrc is an option as well.
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18:14<babilen>tsoliman: /msg dpkg alsaconf
18:15<Mike632T>babilen: yes - I need ensure snd_intel8x0 takes precedence over snd_hda_intel (everything else works fine except iPlayer - flash movie player which is broken because it will always use the first audio device).
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18:15<tsoliman>babilen: is it really useless now?
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18:16<babilen>tsoliman: I have not had the need to use it in the last years
18:16<Mike632T>To which file in /etc/modprobe.d/ or do I just create a new sound.conf ..?
18:17<coreGrl>hi, I'm trying to boot from a Phoenix bios server that generally shows usb keys inserted in usb slot and you can choose them as boot device, now I've just one (1!!) kingston's usb key that when i put in the slot isn't showed in the bios menu :(
18:17<coreGrl>any hint?
18:17<tsoliman>Mike632T: add the 2 lines to a .conf file in /etc/modprobe.d/ : "options snd-hda-intel index=1" and "options snd_intel8x0 index=0"
18:17<babilen>Mike632T: Ok, there are basically two ways. The first was just explained by tsoliman. The second works by creating a suitable alsa config file. See and
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18:17<babilen>Mike632T: But just do what tsoliman said and it should work out :)
18:18<tsoliman>babilen: I haven't used it either but I still have its artifacts "/etc/modprobe.d/sound.conf" and wonder if I should remove it now
18:19<tsoliman>coreGrl: please help me understand how this is related to debian
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18:19<coreGrl>tsoliman, trying to install debian
18:20<Mike632T>I've tried following 1. in '' but it didn't work, looks like the file should have been sound.conf. Aftere that I rather lost confidence in my ability to have got the correct module names etc
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18:21<tsoliman>coreGrl: I see. But I believe your problem is before debian is even in the picture. Is it not unlike me asking here for help wiring my house "so that I can install debian"?
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18:21<tsoliman>coreGrl: try installing from a CD/DVD
18:21-!-Muzer is now known as MuzerAway
18:23<tsoliman>the wiki says "/etc/modprobe.d/sound" but really it is supposed to be .conf .. anything.conf .. this is the new standard
18:25<Mike632T>tsoliman: Just rebooting to see what happens
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18:27<Mike632T>tsoliman: looks promising /proc/asound/cards lists the devices in the right order this time...
18:28<tsoliman>Mike632T: yay! :)
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18:28<tsoliman>I'm glad you didn't have to go through the .asoundrc voodoo
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18:33<Mike632T>tsoliman: :-) it works ...
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18:35<tsoliman>Mike632T: yep once /proc/asound/cards lists them correctly .. you're done ..
18:36<tsoliman>is anyone able to build alsa-source 1.0.23+dfsg-2 on any platform any kernel?
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18:50<chron>chroot: cannot run command `/bin/bash': No such file or directory
18:51-!-mode/#debian [+l 477] by debhelper
18:51<chron>when trying to chroot into new debootstrap folder
18:51<chron>i forgot the solution to this
18:51<chron>and yess /bin/bash does exist
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18:52<tsoliman>does it exist in the chroot also?
18:52-!-chiku [] has joined #debian
18:52<chron>yea, it exists in the chroot folder
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18:54<tsoliman>let me guess .. you're on 64bit?
18:54-!-lbt_ is now known as lbt
18:55<chron>no i'm mnot
18:55<chron>and i'm trying this on different boxes as well
18:55<babilen>I guess missing libraries ... ldd should tell
18:55<daemonkeeper>Your chroot might miss libc6
18:55<tsoliman>yeah that's what I thought with lib vs lib64
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18:56<daemonkeeper>ldd is just an indication though, since it displays shared libraries for the system outside the chroot, within the chroot they are relative
18:57<winsen1>hello everybody, can anyone tell me if i need to have FTP client or FTP server to create my website?
18:57<daemonkeeper>Even more: You better don't.
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18:59<retrospectacus>!ftp must die
18:59<dpkg>FTP MUST DIE! . If you really just want to provide anonymous download of files, use HTTP:
18:59<daemonkeeper>FWIW Debian uses FTP as well for package uploads :p
19:00<daemonkeeper>But well, those are signed ...
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19:00*tsoliman hates ftp
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19:01<tsoliman>lol @ point number 5
19:02<tsoliman>in all fairness, a lot of websites have auth over https and then switch over to using http again once you're logged in ... even does it
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19:03<tsoliman>I have no idea why they do this or why they think it is secure, I imagine because they think "transmitting the password in the clear" is bad but don't think "transiting the session id in the clear" is bad
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19:05<daemonkeeper>tsoliman: Because most sites use more sophisticated session identification procedures rather than the session ID alone.
19:05<tsoliman>daemonkeeper: I think the ftp masters would have to have a new name .. :P
19:05<daemonkeeper>That too!
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19:05<tsoliman>but seriously the packages are signed .. etc etc ..
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19:06<daemonkeeper>Yep, said the same.
19:06-!-tjader [~rodrigo@2001:1291:247:0:faca:cafe:e:beba] has joined #debian
19:06*tsoliman considers rsync+ssh-masters as a name
19:06<daemonkeeper>For Debian, the purpose is just to get things there, no security relies on FTP there.
19:07<daemonkeeper>I doubt, SSH would scale for Debian though.
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19:07<tsoliman>then just rsync
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19:07<tsoliman>I mean without ssh .. an rsync daemon
19:08<dondelelcaro>it's fine to also allow ftp downloads... but almost all of our mirrors do http and many do rsync
19:08<dondelelcaro>(and uploads we often do with ssh anyway)
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19:09<daemonkeeper>That could work, but do you know how well rsync would scale for concurrent uploads, since rsync is not that suitable as file transfer /without/ synchronization
19:09-!-krayn [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
19:09<daemonkeeper>That's more like "abusing" rsync
19:10<tsoliman>I just want the compression part
19:10<tsoliman>I suppose debs are compressed already .. nevermind
19:10<daemonkeeper>What in your source package is not compressed?
19:10<daemonkeeper>Yeah, was about to say that
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19:11<dondelelcaro>daemonkeeper: it depends on what you're trying to do with it; you certainly can handle multiple concurrent uploads with rsync, so long as you're not contesting
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19:13<daemonkeeper>I guess that won't convince ftpmasters though ;)
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19:14<edgarx>helpme please
19:14<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
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19:15<ompaul>there is no need as the signed packages provide the necessary security so why have the overhead of an encrypted tunnel think of the overhead on both boxs now think about lots of devs at the same time have a nice day :)
19:16<edgarx>I have a problem with sleuthkit, dont give me to hash.
19:16<daemonkeeper>It wasn't a security concern, it was just the "FTP MUST DIE!!!1111111oneoneone" statement.
19:17<ompaul>FTP is alive and well, and reminding us of gopher :)
19:17<daemonkeeper>Well, actually Gopher would be better than HTTP, if there would not have been that tiny issue with it ...
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19:22<MrFrood>edgarx: sleuthkit is I think something that not many here will be familiar with you may have better luck trying the sleuthkit-users mail list
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19:23<Jakebobjo>any one able to help with bt4? im new to linux
19:23<edgarx>where is the sleuthkit-users?
19:23<daemonkeeper>Jakebobjo: See dpkg's hint as provided by sney above
19:24<edgarx>I speak spanish, few english
19:24<Jakebobjo>whatit comes to linux? im sorry but im total newb when
19:24<daemonkeeper>There is #debian-es
19:24<edgarx>I am loss
19:25<ompaul>!tell Jakebobjo about bt
19:25<ompaul>!tell Jakebobjo about backtrack
19:25<edgarx>join in the debian-es?
19:25<ompaul>Jakebobjo: not in this channel please check message from bot
19:25<ompaul>edgarx: /join #debian-es
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19:26<Jakebobjo>hmm well i dont think theres a irc for bt4
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19:26<daemonkeeper>!based on debian
19:26<dpkg>Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't know what changes were made by your distribution and it probably falls short of Debian's standards. #debian only supports Debian; you should respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent.
19:27<daemonkeeper>(Now as I realized, bt4 might be some obscure derivate)
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19:38<sney>Jakebobjo: #backtrack-linux on
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19:44<jcress>i have stable installed and want to dist-upgrade to sid. instructions at are from 2008, cant find anything more recent. Is this 'pinning' solution still current?
19:45<daemonkeeper>That's rather pointless, unless you want to have some scary sid mix-in
19:46<jcress>just want to install gnome3-session
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19:46<daemonkeeper>But three things: a) Sid is not supported b) Sid is broken c) probably wait or do a backport yourself.
19:46<sney>jcress: if you have to ask if the instructions are valid, you shouldn't be running sid. also, the udev in sid is currently *completely* broken and as such sid is unusable right now
19:47<jcress>good to know. ty. So there's no path to installing gnome3 on debian right now?
19:47<sney>also, anyone advertising a "safe" upgrade to sid is selling delusions.
19:47<daemonkeeper>There is no gnome3 at all, isn't it?
19:48<sney>yeah, it's only just beginning to show up. the only path right now would be to build it yourself, or to wait for it to go into testing/be backported
19:48<sney>(testing will probably come first)
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19:49<jcress>i've been trying to jhbuild gnome-shell, but it complains about versions of libmozjs-dev and xulrunner-dev installing those packages from experimental wants to install a bunch of deps from experimental
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19:50<sney>jcress: if you want to get into messing with packages from sid and/or experimental, your best bet is to run testing and use tum/pinning, because mixing things into stable is a bad idea generally
19:51<sney>however, wheezy only just entered the testing cycle about a month or two ago so testing is still a bumpy ride
19:51<sney>afaik it's mostly usable but there are a lot of updates all the time, and still a lot of potential for breakage
19:51<daemonkeeper>Maybe there will be a backport for Gnome though.
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19:51<sney>there probably will eventually. my random guess would be 3 months
19:52<daemonkeeper>Wouldn't count on it though, having KDE 4 in mind.
19:52-!-enderst [] has quit [Quit: Save a tree, wipe your ass with a Spotted Owl!]
19:52<sney>daemonkeeper: there's generally more demand for gnome than kde though.
19:53<daemonkeeper>No idea, never used or liked Gnome ;)
19:54<retrospectacus>blasphemer!! Demon Keeper!!
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19:56<daemonkeeper>KDE ftw!
19:56<vlam>Can anyone help me out with a Debian networking problem?
19:56<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
19:57<vlam>I'm running squeeze and I cannot ping say I have set up my interfaces file properly. I believe the correct module is not loaded. I am using a nVidia Corporation MCP51 Ethernet Controller
19:59<vlam>Just the base OS is installed by the way
20:00<sney>vlam: what is the pci id of your network controller?
20:00<sney>(lspci -nn |grep -i net)
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20:03<vlam>Sorry I was doing something, I will run that now
20:03-!-vook [] has joined #debian
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20:04<vlam>nVidia Corporation MCP51 Ethernet Controller [10de:0269] (rev a3)
20:05<sney>,pciid 10de:0269
20:05<judd>[10de:0269] is 'MCP51 Ethernet Controller' from 'nVidia Corporation' with kernel modules 'nouveau', 'forcedeth', 'nvidiafb' in squeeze. See also and the out-of-tree 'snd-hda-intel' module.
20:05<sney>vlam: if you do lsmod do you see forcedeth loaded?
20:06<vlam>i dont believe so. it says forcedeth 45448 0
20:08<vlam>spaced apart
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20:08<vook>forcedeth is intel I believe
20:08<sney>forcedeth is the nvidia ethernet as judd said above
20:09<sney>vlam: if it's in the list that means it's loaded. what does 'ifconfig eth0' give you?
20:09<sney>vlam: also, is it a dhcp or static ip setup?
20:09<vlam>static ip set up
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20:09*vook corrected
20:09<sney>ok, what's the output of 'route' with no arguments?
20:10<vlam>says device is not found for ifconfig eth0
20:10<vlam>Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface
20:10<vlam>for route
20:10<sney>device not found hmm
20:11<sney>did you have any other network adapters connected during your install?
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20:12<sney>the file /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules will tell you the device names of your installed network adapters
20:12<vlam>Well I could not boot from USB nor a DIsc Drive so I installed it in my desktop then put the hard drive in this other PC. So I'm assuming it loaded the module for the network adapter in the original desktop rather than the new PC.
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20:13<vlam>that file is empty
20:13<vlam>Actually the file does not exist I believe
20:13-!-sret [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:13<sney>is there anything in rules.d ?
20:14<vlam>oh there we go, maybe i spelled the file name wrong
20:14<vlam>Yes there is two devices in that file
20:15<sney>if one of them represents hardware not present in your system (the nic from your other computer) you can delete that line and rename the nvidia nic to eth0
20:15<sney>or you can use the nvidia one as eth1 or whatever name it was given. it won't affect your system performance.
20:16-!-CyL [] has joined #debian
20:16<vlam>Yes I did that, should I restart network?
20:16-!-sret [] has joined #debian
20:17<sney>yeah and depending you may need to restart udev as well
20:18<vlam>I believe I did both /etc/init.d/udev restart and /etc/init.d/networking restart
20:19<sney>ifconfig eth0?
20:19-!-m42 [] has quit [Quit: Saindo]
20:19<vlam>device not found again
20:19<vlam>SHould I just to a full reboot?
20:19<sney>I would
20:19-!-phdeswer [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:20<vlam>It's restarting
20:20-!-Newa2 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:20<vlam>And I can ping
20:20<sney>!congratulate vlam
20:20<dpkg>Nice one vlam, you did it!
20:20<vlam>Thank you so much, one more question
20:21<vlam>To run this as a samba server do I have to log in with the user account?
20:22<vlam>I know how to install and setup samba but once that is done do I even have to log in to have the file share running?
20:22-!-vu_j_tp [] has joined #debian
20:23<cthuluh>the former generally implies you know the latter
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20:24<vlam>lol ubuntu has joined debian
20:24-!-ubuntu is now known as Guest1057
20:24<cthuluh>vlam: what does "log in" refer to, here?
20:24<sney>it happens every day, lost and confused and running xchat for the first time ever
20:25<sney>vlam: once samba is running the shares are visible, but it's a good idea to connect to it from another computer just to check
20:25<vlam>When I'm at the "computername" login: _ prompt
20:25<sney>no, you don't need to be logged in.
20:25<cthuluh>then "no"
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20:26<vlam>Alright, I've only been using debian for a few weeks, just transferred from Ubuntu
20:26-!-vu_t [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20:26<cthuluh>but you can probably set up password protected shares if you want to
20:27-!-Se-bash^2 is now known as Se-bash
20:27<vlam>It's going to be a personal file server with no network intruders so I'm good without passwords
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20:30<vlam>What's a good port to use for ssh?
20:30<sney>on your own private network with no intruders, the default (22) is fine
20:31<sney>on the internet, just pick something arbitrary with 4-5 digits that people won't guess
20:32<cthuluh>well, scanning 65535 ports for the server banner shouldn't take long...
20:33<cthuluh>it's more a matter not to get thousands connection attempts a day on the default 22 port
20:33<cthuluh>a matter of* (hope it's correct)
20:33<sney>cthuluh is correct though; if you're worried about people trying to penetrate your network, don't host anything internet-visible
20:33<dondelelcaro>you might as well assume that your network is visible nowadays
20:33<vlam>Is aptitude and apt-get have any difference?
20:33<vlam>er Does
20:33<dondelelcaro>vlam: yes, they have rather large differences
20:34<sney>!why aptitude
20:34<dpkg>aptitude has more advanced conflict/dependency resolution and will often find a solution where apt-get gives up. It can be used from the command line like apt-get plus an interactive resolver makes it much easier to recover from broken dependencies. It has advanced search capabilities (see <aptitude search>). For some upgrades (lenny->squeeze) apt-get is better though. Be careful.
20:34<vlam>"gives up" hehe
20:34<sney>on the other hand, apt-get tends to be slightly quicker
20:34<cthuluh>really quicker ;)
20:35<cthuluh>I only use aptitude, but on some of my (slow) machines it's a pita
20:35<vlam>This is an old machine that's been in my closet for a few years
20:35<sney>yeah the difference is really noticeable on pre-P4 and earlier
20:36<nsadmin>well this whole text-based flat-file extravaganza that is an individual debian's package database is what slows things down
20:36<vlam>It's a Acer L100 mini pc. I have modded not to use a 3.5 hdd because that is ridiculous and use a 2.5 inch laptop drive
20:36<vlam>Modded as in drilled two holes in the top
20:37<dondelelcaro>nsadmin: not really
20:37-!-vuj_tp [] has joined #debian
20:38<nsadmin>I understand the reasons and all but if tools were used that were better than that foxbase thing from the 1980s maybe some speed would be possible
20:38<dondelelcaro>nsadmin: aptitude and apt-get both have actual structures which they dump to disk and reload when necessary
20:38<kop>sney: I find the difference noticable when the drives are sucky.
20:39<vlam>So is Debian really the most stable Linux distribution out there?
20:39-!-hardwalker [] has joined #debian
20:39<nsadmin>why does it load the database every time you run a dpkg install? arguably, the database is already loaded and it should just use it
20:40<nsadmin>anyway, done with that. had to get it out
20:40<dondelelcaro>nsadmin: which parts?
20:40<nsadmin>the part where it builds a dep tree
20:40<nsadmin>for one
20:40<dondelelcaro>nsadmin: because it wants to figure out if the install you're trying to do needs additional deps
20:41<dondelelcaro>nsadmin: and in order to figure that out, it has to have the entire dep tree.
20:41<nsadmin>dpkg has a part where it reads the databawe and reports on files
20:41<dpkg>nsadmin: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox?
20:41-!-barbelf [~barbelf@] has joined #debian
20:41<nsadmin>989753975 files installed or something like that
20:41<dondelelcaro>nsadmin: dpkg just cares about the currently installed packages, so it only loads that particular database; it could care less if what you're trying to do can't be done... it just tells you that it can't be done
20:42<dondelelcaro>nsadmin: yeah, that's dpkg; totally separate from apt-get and aptitude
20:42<MisterBlack>vlam: Thats subjective, asking in here, the answer will probably be yes ;). The real answer to this though is it's one of the most stable distributions out there if running the stable branch.
20:42<nsadmin>I'm just saying, that database should already be in a convenient form
20:43<dondelelcaro>nsadmin: only dpkg cares about the files that are installed and the dependency relationships of the packages that you're installing and trying to install
20:43<dondelelcaro>nsadmin: it is in a fairly convenient form... a text file is ideal in this case
20:43<vlam>I've been looking at Windows Server 2008 and it really seems like a joke
20:43<dondelelcaro>nsadmin: because if something gets horribly screwed up, anything else is almost impossible to edit without specialized tools
20:43<sney>for the money, certainly
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20:43<nsadmin>like I said I understand the reasoning
20:44<dondelelcaro>so... what's the problem, then?
20:44<MisterBlack>vlam: I never used Windows Server 2008 so I can't tell ya, but I can tell you that Debian Stable (Squeeze at this time) is a excellent choice ;)
20:44-!-vu_j_tp [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:44<nsadmin>does either apt-get or aptitude call dpkg?
20:44-!-Newa [] has joined #debian
20:44<sney>yes to both
20:44<vlam>It's literally Windows Vista with server software installed basically
20:45<cthuluh>if dpkg used an sqlite database or such, I wouldn't have been able to fix a broken system (as in, no /usr and no /var) remotely last night.
20:45<cthuluh>plain text is good
20:46-!-gbp_ is now known as gbp
20:47<cthuluh>vlam: though I heard that 2008 can run without a GUI, which is something nice for a server
20:47<nsadmin>at minimum if you load whichever db into an sqlite, operate on it and then write it out from the sqlite tables, that might be faster
20:47<nsadmin>anyway. I'm now trying again to be done :)
20:48<vlam>Actually I've seen screenshots and it looked like command prompt with no explorer.exe started
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20:54<vlam>I am having trouble connecting to this pc with ssh. I do ssh -p 22 and it asks for a password and it does not accept the password
20:54<vlam>I think it's using the wrong user name
20:54<tjader>Are you using the correct username?
20:55<vook>vlam: try ssh user@hosthame
20:55-!-NoxDaFox [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:55<vlam>could not resolve hostname
20:55-!-babilen [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
20:56<tjader>hostname = name or address of a host
20:56<vlam>There we go
20:56<vook>and -p 22 isn't really necessary, as that is the default ssh port
20:57<vlam>Has ubuntu upgrade ever broke someones system before?
20:58-!-dvs [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:58<vlam>Me too and it took longer to boot up then my Windows 7 machine
20:58<vlam>Hated it
20:58-!-pablo [] has joined #debian
20:58<vook>ubuntu is sort of like debian unstable/experimental
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20:58<tjader>with bling
20:58-!-sret [] has joined #debian
20:59<tjader>They get flashy stuff faster
20:59<tjader>Debian works
20:59<aber>Some nice stuff. ;)
20:59<vlam>Stability and performance is higher priority for me then cool stuff
20:59<sney>and their users show up here and demand help, and their bug tracker is like 85% support requests
20:59-!-slinker1 [] has joined #debian
21:00<sney>overall I am not impressed with ubuntu.
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21:00<vlam>I think Linux Mint is a lot better than ubuntu as an entry level linux
21:01<tjader>I haven't used Mint
21:01<vook>it gets people enthusiastic about Linux, so for that I'll give it credit. And they did do a mass CD give away several years ago.
21:01<vlam>What do you think about installing gdm3 instead of gnome-core
21:01<vlam>I installed gdm3 so I didn't get a ton of apps I'll never use
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21:02<tjader>gdm3 is just a login manager
21:02<vlam>Well I got gnome with it for some reason
21:02<vlam>But it didn't come with any of the extra applications
21:03<tjader>some dependency or recommendation, probabl
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21:03<vlam>I considered install Linux Mint Debian however there is no option to not install the huge amount of packages you get with it
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21:06<tjader>vlam: that's a given in any desktop distribution
21:07<vlam>Debian I didn't select desktop environment or system utilities and Ubuntu did not give me that option
21:07<tjader>Debian isn't a desktop distro, Ubuntu is
21:07<sney>tjader is universal, ubuntu doesn't trust you to make your own decisions
21:08<sney>er. debian is universal.
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21:08<tjader>I think saying it doesn't trust you is trying to put it in a bad light.
21:08<tjader>It just is not meant for anything except being a desktop
21:09<tjader>I don't see the point in installing ubuntu and leaving the bling out
21:09<vlam>I'm just very picky about what is installed. I like the base then install what I want when I want. Cuts download times down a lot and having large ISO images
21:10-!-afurlan [~afurlan@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:10<vlam>Kind of like how arch does it but I don't really want to try arch right now
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21:10<tjader>I'm also picky
21:10<tjader>rodrigo@katara:~$ aptitude search '!~M ~i' | wc -l
21:11<tjader>And 205 on my desktop machine
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21:12<vlam>However one thing I love about any Linux distro is how much RAM it saves
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21:12<tjader>Also, a small set of installed packages is good to avoid breakage when you use unstable
21:12-!-chitchat [~guest@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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21:13<vlam>Anyone see the Revolution OS documentary?
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21:15<nsadmin>use : unstable :: military : intelligence
21:16<nsadmin>never seen a proportion? :)
21:16<vlam>Oh heh
21:16<nsadmin>it's read: "use" is to "unstable" as "military" is to "intelligence"
21:16-!-Brigo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:17<tjader>nsadmin: have you ever used debian unstable
21:18<nsadmin>yes, and I had a rigorous back up plan too
21:18<nsadmin>"unstable" is -not- intended for "use"
21:18-!-vuj_tp [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:19<nsadmin>but by all means, knock yourself out
21:19<nsadmin>or your data :)
21:19<MisterBlack>yeah, you better have a good backup plan if running unstable on a production machine, anything can happen
21:19<vlam>Is the very long development time for Debian mean the developers are taking a lot of time testing or doing hardly anything?
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21:19<tjader>sid feels more stable than ubuntu to me
21:19<tjader>vlam: testing
21:19<tjader>and bug squashing
21:20-!-AbsintheSyringe [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:20<vlam>Squeeze was like 2 years right?
21:20-!-Joe [] has joined #debian
21:20<tjader>That's the usual span
21:20<vlam>I trust that more than every 6 months
21:21-!-mode/#debian [+l 454] by debhelper
21:21-!-Joe is now known as Guest1060
21:21<vlam>Like *cough* Ubuntu
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21:21<nsadmin>tjader: that can change on a daily basis... in unstable's case... if I were you, I'd make sure I could read, code and debug in C and C++, and read the change diffs before upgrading anything
21:21<MisterBlack>Well, they squash bugs and rigorously test packages for 2 years. Yeah some of the packages are kinda old but it is solid
21:22<tjader>Well, Fedora has releases every 6 months and is way more stable than ubuntu
21:22<vlam>Never used Fedora
21:22<nsadmin>most times, old works just fine
21:22<vlam>I hate how Ubuntu's GUI is
21:22<tjader>nsadmin: I can code, but never had to do that for any breakage on unstable
21:23<nsadmin>you mean to say you never did it :)
21:23-!-daemonkeeper [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:23<tjader>the worst that has happened to me was getting locked out of X because of a transition
21:23<nsadmin>you don't know wheter you would have had to do it until you did it :)
21:23<nsadmin>by its very nature
21:23<tjader>Also, my sid machine is not critical or anything.
21:23<tjader>It's my home machine
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21:24<tjader>If anything happens I can reinstall some other system within the hour, also
21:24<nsadmin>so that should mean, only you use it and you either backup hourly or daily, or you don't care anything about the data
21:25<tjader>I care a little about the data
21:25<tjader>But not enough to backup it :p
21:25<tjader>Anything that is a little important gets stored both in this machine and on my other one
21:25<tjader>which runs squeeze
21:26<nsadmin>running unstable... not backing up.... oh, that translates to zero care.... but let;s see about upgrades...
21:26<nsadmin>when do you upgrade?
21:26<tjader>A few times a week.
21:27<nsadmin>ok, for each upgrade, do you just upgrade, or do you do anything beforehand?
21:27<tjader>Just upgrade.
21:27<nsadmin>that makes you a very trusting individual
21:27<vlam>He removes all files in / before upgrade :P
21:27<tjader>Well, debian developers have earned my trust :)
21:28<nsadmin>having said that... debian devs do work very hard
21:28<tjader>And it's no big deal if I lose all my data in this machine
21:28<vlam>What is your favorite desktop environment?
21:28-!-alephnull [~alok@] has joined #debian
21:29<tjader>But I find it extremely unlikely that some upgrade will eat my entire /home beyond recovery
21:29<tjader>My favorite is GNOME
21:29<nsadmin>ok. what has you running unstable as opposed to stable?
21:29<tjader>But I don't use it.
21:29<tjader>nsadmin: newer stuff and the thrill of upgrading :D
21:29<nsadmin>well debian packaging is not allowed to touch /home
21:30<tjader>Also, fixing some minor breakage now and then is fun.
21:30<nsadmin>I found my THREEalll
21:30<nsadmin>oooooon blueberry HEEalll
21:30<nsadmin>that makes you an experimentor
21:31<nsadmin>you seem fairly comfortable and happy with what you got
21:32<tjader>Just to show how much I care about it breaking: I often upgrade over ssh from work :p
21:32<nsadmin>are there any instances where you would see yourself installing and/or using stable?
21:32<vlam>Can anyone direct me to some article for super power savings with Debian because I'm getting a netbook soon
21:32<tjader>nsadmin: yes, on a production machine for example
21:32<nsadmin>vlam: you want to save your super powers??
21:33<tjader>I have two machines at home, one is my desktop running sid and the other is my random stuff server running squeeze
21:33<vlam>No saving as much battery power as possible in Debian for a netbook
21:33<tjader>Almost squeeze, actually.
21:33<tjader>I pulled in deluge from testing
21:34<nsadmin>for one thing, running daemons tends to keep the disk spinning
21:34<nsadmin>anything you can do to keep the disk spun down would help a lot
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21:35<nsadmin>that might be inconvenient for things like editing files
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21:35<vlam>What is this laptop-mode package
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21:37<nsadmin>the more idle your cpu (and the kernel making sure the cpu is actually in an idle state) will also help a lot
21:37<vlam>How to do that is the problem for me heh
21:37<nsadmin>if you notice your machine generating a lot of heat, that's a bad sign
21:38<MisterBlack>vlam: for spinning down your hdd and such, I would also recommend pairing it with the cpufrequtils package for cpu power savings
21:38<tjader>Just did a cleanup and brought the explicitly installed package count on my desktop down to 91 :)
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21:42<vlam>It seems like I would have to adjust the conf files for those packages to maximize their effectiveness
21:42<nsadmin>best practices tend to be harped upon here... -use- of unstable is always going to get peanut gallery noise
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21:42<nsadmin>vlam: tuning is going to help as well
21:43<tjader>Well, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who didn't know what they are doing
21:43<nsadmin>yes, agreed
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21:45<nsadmin>I don't like how people here tend to assume the worst about someone's intelligence and ability, and then actively find ways to justify calling them dumb for doing something, as opposed to helping then to understand how to get what they want
21:45<nsadmin>the latter is being in service, the former is not
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21:46<vlam>I'm looking for power saving guides that don't just say install laptop-mode package
21:47<nsadmin>vlam: if that's what they say, maybe you should investigate what's in that package and see how it helps
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21:51<vlam>browser crash:(
21:51<tjader>"If you use testing currently, you should change your /etc/apt/sources.list to track Wheezy, for security reasons."
21:52<tjader>It says that in the wiki, with a red bar and an exclamation mark by it
21:52<vlam>anyways this is what a page said about laptop-tools
21:52<vlam>laptop-mode-tools is the userland component of laptop mode, the Linux kernel mode that allows you to spin down your hard drives for longer periods of time. This package takes care of configuration and activation of laptop-mode, automatically remounting your filesystems with the appropriate options, and modifying the idle timeouts for your hard drives. Laptop mode tools integrate with power management daemons such as acpid, apmd and pbbut
21:52<vlam>that laptop mode is started automatically when your laptop is running on batteries.
21:52<tjader>What are those reasons?
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22:04<SnakeWaffles>Hey, can a linux noob get some advide plz
22:05<SnakeWaffles>I am trying to set up my wireless on a fresh install and I cant dind the network-manager to do so
22:05<SnakeWaffles>im coming over from opensuse, and not very familiar with CL
22:06<SnakeWaffles>as some background
22:06<abcd82>vlam: site about power savings , look in tips &tricks, documentation
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22:06<vlam>Well is this a laptop Snake?
22:07<SnakeWaffles>it is, and when i try to "aptitude show network-manager" to see if its installed it says "not a real package"
22:08<vlam>I believe the package is called something very similar to that
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22:08<vlam>Are you using GNOME snake?
22:09<SnakeWaffles>yes, i just let it log in with the system default window manager
22:09<vlam>If you are then it's network-manager-gnome
22:09<SnakeWaffles>also, this might be important
22:09<tjader>That doesn't matter
22:09<SnakeWaffles>when I got the iso CD i just got CD 1,
22:09<tjader>network-manager should appear anyway
22:10<vlam>Really? I never use it so
22:10<tjader>SnakeWaffles: you need to setup repositories, probably
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22:10<SnakeWaffles>and use that CD as trhe source?
22:10<tjader>Use an internet mirror as the source
22:11<SnakeWaffles>no internet connection on the laptop, you see
22:11<SnakeWaffles>thas why i deeded the network manager
22:11<tjader>network manager comes on the default install
22:12<tjader>you probably need networking drivers
22:12<SnakeWaffles>I manually added them from a USB stick diring the install
22:12<SnakeWaffles>how do I check that it took?
22:12<tjader>Maybe you have to install them by hand afterwars
22:13<tjader>I'm not sure if the installer just uses the drivers or if it installs them as well
22:13<SnakeWaffles>I still have the firl on a usb stick, how do I do it manually?
22:13<SnakeWaffles>sorry, still learning here
22:13<tjader>what's the file name?
22:14<vlam>See you guys later
22:15<SnakeWaffles>its ipw2200-bss.fw, it is in ipw2200-fw-3.1.tgz
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22:16<tjader>The wiki is a good resource
22:16<tjader>Wireless networking drivers are usually very well explained there
22:17<SnakeWaffles>yea, I have this open already , will look at your link now, thanks
22:17<tjader>As you have no network in that machine you will have to download the .deb and install it
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22:19<SnakeWaffles>ok, one more nooblet question: In opensuse, when I wanted to manage packages, I opened YaST and used that, I cant seem to locate the analog for that in debian, where is it
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22:20<tjader>You can use aptitude on a terminal
22:20<tjader>I don't know what graphical package manager comes by default nowadays
22:20<tjader>Synaptic used to be available
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22:20<SnakeWaffles>ok, I'll use the terminal, I need to learn it better anyway
22:21<SnakeWaffles>gonna get some dinner and give it a shot after that, thanks guys
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22:21<tjader>For a very friendly interface you can also check software-center
22:21<tjader>too late :(
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22:41<SnakeWaffles>ok, im back, trying to get that wireless up, but ran into a few oddities
22:42<SnakeWaffles>first ifconfic comes back as "command not found"
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22:42<SnakeWaffles>is that normal?
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22:43<tjader>it's ifconfig
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22:43<tjader>if you typoed that, are you root?
22:44<tjader>ifconfig is on /sbin, which is not in the regular user's PATH
22:44<SnakeWaffles>well specificall what i did was "su ifconfig"
22:44<tjader>you mean "sudo ifconfig"?
22:45<tjader>"su ifconfig" means "switch to user ifconfig"
22:45<SnakeWaffles>no, su. sudi came back as "command not found"
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22:45<SnakeWaffles>fuck cant spell
22:45<tjader>then try "su -"
22:45<tjader>Then you'll be root
22:45<sney>sudo isn't installed by default
22:45<tjader>Then try to run ifconfig
22:46<SnakeWaffles>there it is
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22:47<SnakeWaffles>thats odd, it shows lo, bit not wlan0, but when I do lspci, my wireless card shows up
22:48<tjader>SnakeWaffles: did you install the package from the wiki?
22:49<SnakeWaffles>ah, not yet
22:49<SnakeWaffles>derp, forgot while I was nomming
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23:03<SnakeWaffles>ok, so I put firmware-ipw2x00_0.14+lenny2_all.deb on my desktop, logged in as root and did "aptitude install firmware-ipw2x00_0.14+lenny2_all.deb" and it said it couldnt find a package that had that name or matched that description. How did I mess this one up?
23:03<sney>if it's a .deb, you do dpkg -i
23:04<SnakeWaffles>there it goes
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---Logclosed Fri Apr 08 00:00:11 2011