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#debian IRC Logs for 2011-05-02

---Logopened Mon May 02 00:00:26 2011
00:01-!-mode/#debian [+l 439] by debhelper
00:02<sney>jack: it's in /sbin. /sbin/ifconfig will work, or you can add /sbin to your PATH, or do it as root (or with sudo)
00:03<jack>sney:thanks
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00:07<george_>does debian not come with graphic card drivers if you install openbox instead of gnome or kde?
00:09<sney>no, it comes with the same ones
00:09<sney>but if you're looking for 3d support on a current nvidia or ati card, there are some steps you have to take to install those
00:10<george_>sney: ohh so it comes with an open-source driver, but for 3d graphics you need closed-source?
00:10-!-r0ger [~r0ger@65.23.154.235] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:10<sney>george_: in most cases, yes
00:10<sney>ati support is getting pretty good with the open source driver
00:11<sney>but even then you still need firmware-linux-nonfree to make it work all the way
00:11<george_>sney: alright, so what's the most up-to-date way of getting the graphics for an ati card?
00:11<sney>how new is it?
00:12<george_>sney: I mean, I've been running fine liek this for a few days, but I just tried Wolfenstein ET and CS1.6 and it lagged
00:12<george_>old
00:12<george_>x800gt
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00:13<sney>george_: then installing firmware-linux-nonfree is all you need. the free driver is fine for that series.
00:14<sney>(without that firmware package, it's not using the whole gpu, which is the reason for your lag)
00:14<george_>sney: alright, and i'm guessing it's not open source, other than that do I need to configure anything or just restart X?
00:14<sney>just restart X
00:15<george_>sney: thank you so much for the simple instructions, let me try it out
00:15<sney>judd: versions firmware-linux-nonfree
00:15<judd>Package firmware-linux-nonfree on i386 -- lenny-backports/non-free: 0.27~bpo50+1; squeeze/non-free: 0.28; sid/non-free: 0.29; wheezy/non-free: 0.29
00:15<george_>alright brb
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00:21<george_>who was i talking to a second ago?
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00:23<george_>who was it that told me to install firmware-linux-free?
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00:27<george_>alright, i guess the gentleman who tried helping me quit
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00:27<sney>george_: firmware-linux-nonfree
00:27<george_>what's the most up-to-date way of getting the driver for an ati x800gt so i can play games without insane lag
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00:27<george_>sney: ohh hey, wow
00:28<sney>sorry, I was in another channel talking about this obama thing
00:28<george_>sney: now i feel bad, misread it and it didn't work, let me get rid of this and try that lol
00:28<george_>sney: obama thing? osama bin laden getting killed?
00:28<sney>yes
00:28<george_>yeah interesting, it's all over the net
00:29<sney>indeed
00:29<sney>offtopic in here, but that's why I didn't respond right away
00:29<george_>sney: alright, seems like i need to do some sources file editing lol
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00:30<sney>george_: yeah, add contrib non-free to the end of your main mirror line
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00:36<george_>sney: weird, is there something wrong with this? deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ squeeze contrib nonfree
00:36<george_>deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ squeeze contrib nonfree
00:36<sney>non-free
00:37<george_>lol
00:37<george_>trivial thing
00:37<sney>yeah, it's always the little stuff that gets ya
00:38<george_>sney: so if for example I had a newer card would i use some other type of package?
00:38<sney>yeah, the fglrx driver supports everything hd 2xxx and newer
00:39<george_>sney: ohh ok, is there any difference between them except for the support, they're both closed source right?
00:39-!-th [~Administr@182.10.186.107] has joined #debian
00:40<sney>no, the 'radeon' driver (which you're using) is open source but requires a little bit of binary microcode. the 'fglrx' driver is completely closed source with the exception of kernel interface stuff
00:40<george_>sney: alright, thanks, let me try restarting X and wishing for the best, brb :)
00:40<sney>it's likely that someday the 'radeon' driver team will reverse engineer the gpus and the binary microcode will no longer be needed, and it'll be fully open source
00:41<george_>a little closed source won't kill us right ;)
00:41<sney>I'm not a computer activist or anything, but the closed source stuff is almost always annoying to use
00:41<sney>that's my position against it
00:41<george_>the new adobe flash for 64 bit is running well too, gnash was horrendous
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00:42<george_>i couldn't get teh sound working in youtube videos with gnash, i got adobe flash and boom it works
00:42<sney>yeah gnash is awful
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00:42<sney>the best youtube support is html5 though
00:42<george_>lol, alright brb
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00:46<myk_>hi all
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00:51<Prathibha>I want to install a package during installation. How can I do it?
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00:53<Prathibha>what is the command to use to install a package during installation. what is the command to be used? I am not able to find apt-get command?
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00:54<george_>sney: alright, you're the man, everything's working great, runs pretty good, not as good as windows, but then again, I am running it in wine
00:54<sney>yeah, wine is the rest of your slowdown
00:54<george_>sney: but would u recommend software, d3d, or opengl mode for best performance?
00:54<sney>opengl
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00:54<sney>anything else would be a wrapper
00:55<george_>alright :)
00:55<george_>so how's the support on nvidia cards, not too good, everything is clsoed source?
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00:57<sney>george_: yeah. there's work being done on an open driver called 'nouveau' but it doesn't have 3d yet
00:57<sney>or it does, but not much
00:57<george_>alright, good to know it's slowly being developed though
00:57<sney>word
00:58<unlisted>Prathibha: just install packages after base installation with apt-get install "pkg_name"
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00:59<george_>why don't these companies just make the code open source it's not like we're going to use tehir code without their hardware
00:59<sney>good question
01:00<george_>but yeah, thanks a lot sney, i realized my browsing is a lot faster now too
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01:43<babu>hello
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01:45<PIrr>hi
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02:05<whiteknight>bonjouraol
02:05<whiteknight>bonjour ao2
02:05<whiteknight>bonjour Sw33NY
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02:09<sayed>hi
02:09<sayed>hi all
02:09<sayed>i need help pls
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02:22<MortuusVir>the docs don't seem to mention this: can debian installer do the same as ubuntu's: not format the target root filesystem and just remove the system dirs of the previous install?
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03:24<choobie>Hey I was wondering if I could get some help setting up a live USB, everything I try seems to result in errors
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03:33<navaneeth>Hi! Where does the PATH get set to /usr/loca/bin ? I'm asking so that I can set a folder in a path system wide...
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04:40<odixibo>hgj\
04:40<dominick>Hi! Can somebody please suggest me a configuration management utility in debian? something like puppet...
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04:50<ansgar>dominick: puppet is in Debian.
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05:19<grummund>root:~# export LS_OPTIONS='--color=auto'; eval "`dircolors`"; ls -l /
05:20<grummund>this should do a colorized ls i think, but it does not... any ideas why not?
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05:21<grummund>(only root has the problem)
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05:21<kooll>grummund: is LS_COLOR defined ? (it should be set by dircolors)
05:22<kooll>grummund: and does it works if you replace auto by always ?
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05:23<grummund>kooll: no, and no.
05:25<kooll>ok. what is the output of dircolors ?
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05:26<grummund>ah wait... $LS_COLORS *is* defined (note plural)
05:26<grummund>but the listing is still plain
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05:27<grummund>export LS_OPTIONS='--color=always'; eval "`dircolors`"; echo "LS_COLORS=$LS_COLORS"; ls -l /
05:27<grummund>^^ is what i did
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05:32<grummund>kooll: was missing: alias ls='ls $LS_OPTIONS'
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06:36<EmleyMoor>I have compiled and installed gnome-inform7 but it crashes when run, producing this report: http://paste.debian.net/115669/
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07:13<daemon>hi
07:13<daemon>hi
07:13<daemon>hello
07:13<daemon>anybody
07:13<daemonkeeper>Hi, slave of mine. Can we help you?
07:14-!-valerio [~valerio@ppp-35-56.24-151.libero.it] has joined #debian
07:14<daemon>k
07:14<daemon>i just want to install a software on my backtrack 4
07:14<daemonkeeper>Did you see the channel name?
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07:14<nevyn>!based on debian
07:14<dpkg>Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't know what changes were made by your distribution and it probably falls short of Debian's standards. #debian only supports Debian; you should respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent.
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07:14<daemon>yeah.. i know that...
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07:15<daemon>k guys..]
07:15<ompaul>daemon: so why aren't you in the backtrack channel?
07:15<daemonkeeper>!backtrack
07:15<dpkg>BackTrack is not Debian and is not supported in #debian (ask me about <based on debian>). Try http://www.backtrack-linux.org/ or #backtrack-linux on irc.freenode.net instead. BackTrack is a Linux distribution based on <Ubuntu> Intrepid (as of BackTrack 4), previously <SLAX>. Derived from merging two penetration-testing distributions: WHAX (formerly WHOPPIX) and Auditor Security Linux.
07:15<daemonkeeper>That one
07:15<daemon>k
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07:49<Osiris_X_>I need to do an exact copy of my /usr logical volume (LVM2) [while it is mounted] - I've added an extra partition / PV to the volume group - what is the best way to do this?
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07:51<daemonkeeper>Learn about LVM snapshots
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08:08<zeglor>Hello everyone! I have a problem installing debian 6.0.1a-amd64 from DVD - the installation process freezes on "Initializing python" step (about 74%). I use AMD Phenom X4 B25 processor, ASUS M4A77T motherboard, Saphire HD5770 graphics card and Seagate Barracuda 7200 HD. Could anyone help me?
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08:11<Osiris_X_>daemonkeeper, from what I can gather a snapshot is not a backup, but it will allow me to make a backup of a live system, right?
08:12<daemonkeeper>Right. It makes an atomic snapshot of a volume, you can use to make backups from
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08:13<Osiris_X_>daemonkeeper, so in my case I need 1 LV for the /usr copy, and 1 LV for the snapshot, and probably somewhere to hold a compressed backup using duplicity
08:14<Osiris_X_>I then rsync from snapshot to /usr copy, right?
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08:14<daemonkeeper>The snapshot does not consume any space. You need only some space to make a log of changes (copy on write). Typically you won't need more than 5% of the original volume size, unless the snapshot is long living.
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08:21<venom00ut>hello
08:22<venom00ut>are there HTTPS debian repositories?
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08:22<Osiris_X>daemonkeeper, ok after I take the backup from the snapshot - should I just use pvmove to move the live /usr LV onto a different PV?
08:22<Osiris_X>(I mean is this a viable alternative method)
08:23<daemonkeeper>venom00ut: Why would you need that?
08:24<venom00ut>daemonkeeper, someone could replace a package with a malicious one
08:24<daemonkeeper>Osiris_X: I'm not sure what you want to achieve?
08:24<venom00ut>and signatures are in clear text too, I think
08:24<daemonkeeper>venom00ut: No, packages are signed and the mirror is untrusted anyway
08:25<daemonkeeper>venom00ut: SSL is an end point authentication, you don't authenticate contents.
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08:25<Osiris_X>daemonkeeper, sorry - I need to merge my root and /usr partitions (both on LVM2)
08:25<venom00ut>daemonkeeper, I don't truste my ISP, that's the fact
08:25<daemonkeeper>venom00ut: Why would you trust any given Debian mirror out there then?
08:26<venom00ut>daemonkeeper, the situation is complex, please, just tell me if there's an HTTPS mirror out there
08:26<Osiris_X>they happen to be sequentially positioned on the disk at the moment, so I want to move /usr to another PV, extend my root and then copy the data from the moved /usr to the usr folder on the root
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08:26<daemonkeeper>No, since its useless.
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08:26<daemonkeeper>Probably some third party mirrors offer SSL, but I don't know
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08:27<venom00ut>OK
08:27-!-toabctl [~tom@213.172.126.10] has joined #debian
08:27<daemonkeeper>venom00ut: You did not understand the concept of authentication and SSL by the way.
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08:28<daemonkeeper>Osiris_X: Should work, do a snapshot of /usr, copy it to its new destination by using dd or so (or even rsync if you want to mount it). Afterwards you can remove both, the source and the snapshot
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08:28<venom00ut>daemonkeeper, probably you don't understand the concept of MITM
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08:29<daemonkeeper>venom00ut: I do, but you don't.
08:29<daemonkeeper>Metadata is signed, no chance for MITM.
08:30<venom00ut>where do I get metadata from?
08:30<venom00ut>is it a secure connection?
08:30<daemonkeeper>apt will take care
08:30<daemonkeeper>No its not and it is not needed
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08:30<daemonkeeper>Metadata is signed by an asyymetric RSA key. No one can forge that.
08:30<daemonkeeper>*asymmetric
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08:31<daemonkeeper>Assuming your /local/ public key of the metadata is trusted, you can guarantee authentication of packets
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08:32<daemonkeeper>SSL on the other hand won't help you at all, since this an end to end encryption which does not at all authenticate /content/ of the data you envelope in SSL
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08:32<venom00ut>mh, I see, then you have your own security meccanism
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08:32<daemonkeeper>And if you don't trust your ISP he could easily forge you to a MITM SSL proxy
08:33<daemonkeeper>You would not even notice.
08:33<venom00ut>I tought the verification was made just through an hash
08:33<venom00ut>daemonkeeper, well, CA are there for something :P
08:33<daemonkeeper>venom00ut: So?
08:34<daemonkeeper>venom00ut: http://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/stable/ See Release and Release.gpg for instance
08:34<venom00ut>if you've installed e.g. verisign root certificate, and its pk has not been stolen, no one can do MITM
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08:37<sum>hello
08:37<daemonkeeper>venom00ut: So? Since you don't trust your ISP he could indirect your conneciton to a forged DNS or web server which presents you a perfectly valid SSL certificate, perhaps even signed by Verisign.
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08:38<venom00ut>ehrr, that would work only if they have the pk of that certificate
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08:38<nevyn>yeah.
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08:39<nevyn>but verisign only verifies creditcards are chargable
08:40<venom00ut>I don't think so :P they have strict policies, otherwise no one would trust them
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08:41<daemonkeeper>venom00ut: You can enter whatever you want in your common name field, most CAs won't care. Let's assume your CA is trustworthy (many are not), you could still have a perfectly valid debian.yourisp.com certificate.
08:41<nevyn>venom00ut: strict policies of not issuing certificates to people who's creditcards are not chargable.
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08:42<venom00ut>daemonkeeper, np, I won't use it :)
08:42<nevyn>venom00ut: you're delusional
08:43<nevyn>venom00ut: the problem is they don't need "that" certificate. just a certificate
08:43<venom00ut>why the hell should I put debian.yourisp.com in sources.list?
08:43<daemonkeeper>Right
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08:43<daemonkeeper>venom00ut: You don't need to. Since you use your ISP's DNS probably, he can redirect you
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08:44<venom00ut>daemonkeeper, you mean that apt allows redirects?
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08:44<nevyn>no.
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08:44<daemonkeeper>How should apt know?
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08:45<daemonkeeper>This has nothing to do with apt
08:45<venom00ut>redirects are http redirects, otherwise you're not using debian.yourisp.com but e.g. http.us.debian.org
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08:46<venom00ut>and the problem there's only if you follow http redirects
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08:46<venom00ut>well, in any case the redirect would be in ssl as well, so it's not possible
08:47<venom00ut>however try to get an ssl certificate for http.us.debian.org from verisign
08:47<venom00ut>if you are able to do that, call me :)
08:48<seeS>dudes will black hats will give you a better offer if you can pull that off
08:49<daemonkeeper>Its probably not that unlikely, since authenticity proves the /remaining fields/ of the certificate more than everything else.
08:49<venom00ut>however the fact is that you don't simply verify packages through plain hash, but you have a signature mechanism
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08:49<jmccrohan>Whats the issue again with using GPG?
08:50<venom00ut>so https is not needed actually
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08:50<daemonkeeper>venom00ut: That's what I said, Debian authenticates packages, not connections [to untrusted mirrors]
08:50<seeS>i would of thought https was a waste of time, youd sign the files
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08:50<daemonkeeper>seeS: It is, and useless
08:50<seeS>its far easier to attack the files on the mirror than in-flight
08:50<daemonkeeper>Right
08:51<daemonkeeper>Mirrors are not trusted.
08:51<daemonkeeper>Contents are
08:51<daemonkeeper>SSL is able to verify the mirror only and thus useless
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08:53<venom00ut>if your ISO is not tampered :)
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08:55<daemonkeeper>The ISP can tamper whatever he wants, as long as you have a /trusted/ public key locally available. You probably can't rely on that if you are paranoid and you installed Debian from an ISO downloaded through the same untrusted connection
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08:55<venom00ut>indeed
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08:58<aLky>guys, my touchpad moves my mouse on random places and clicks/rightlics randomly (on acer aspire laptop)
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09:03<ComradeHaz`>Hi all, I am getting the following messages in syslog very regulalry. "pam_limits(cron:session): Unknown kernel rlimit 'Max realtime timeout' ignored". Can anyone advise, please?
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09:05<morph_work>hi! I want to upgrade from lenny to squeeze but prefer lenny packages for php5* stuff, I tried http://paste.debian.net/115746/ in /etc/apt/preferences but at dist-upgrade, the squeeze versions are about to be installed - what am I doing wrong?
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09:07<themill>!pal morph_work
09:07*dpkg points at morph_work and laughs
09:08<themill>!php paradox
09:08<dpkg>The PHP paradox is that the people running lenny with php 5.2 want to have php 5.3... while the people running squeeze with php 5.3 want to have php 5.2. This is actually a sad indictment of both php and the applications written in it.
09:08<themill>morph_work: but more seriously, wildcard pinning doesn't work that way -- you can't pin php5* like that. /msg dpkg pinning
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09:08<morph_work>themill: was I too naive? :)
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09:09<themill>morph_work: pinning never quite works the way you want. (although I think sid's apt would now obey php5* like you want)
09:09<olasd>methinks oldstable php + stable + sid apt would be quite twisted :)
09:10<seeS>wow, i never heard of the php paradox
09:10*morph_work is considering looking for apt bpo :)
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09:10<daemonkeeper>The PHP paradox is it exists although everyone dislikes it.
09:10<seeS>but 5.3 did have some new "features" which broke things
09:11<themill>morph_work: how hard would it be to fix the php you've got to work with 5.3? (or just rewrite in perl or python or...)
09:11<seeS>i must admit ive been tempted to rewrite it
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09:11<daemonkeeper>FWIW Perl 6 is not compatible to Perl 5 neither is Python 3.x and Python 2.x
09:11<morph_work>themill: dunno, my role is "sysadmin" while others are the developers and they say "do not ever in the world change from 5.2 to 5.3" so it's barely impossible
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09:12<seeS>slack-arse developers :p
09:12<themill>daemonkeeper: those are major version changes that happen once every 15 years or so. This is a minor version bump of php that happens once every few months.
09:12<morph_work>themill: probably i'll just apt-cache search php5* and play with sed and tr to get a list of php5 pkgs in squeeze and list all of them in the Package line
09:13<themill>morph_work: a "forward port" of the lenny packages into squeeze might be more successful. Put them in your own private repo and pin that repo appropriately.
09:13<daemonkeeper>themill: There you are right (and I don't feel comfortable to defend PHP anyway, as I think PHP is !")/§")/$§"()/$)")
09:13<seeS>maybe if you pin the main one the others wont follow
09:13<seeS>as they depend on the phpapi
09:13<themill>morph_work: just remember that you'll be on your own for php5.2 security support reasonably soon
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09:14<morph_work>themill: too much work for me, with very little gain (I want to play the card "you *have to* upgrade to 5.3 now, so what are you going to do?" later)
09:14<morph_work>themill: security? upgrades? what's that? :)
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09:14<seeS>security and php in the same sentence, that's funny
09:14*morph_work works in a place just discovered how it's MUCH MORE easy manage servers with debian :)
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09:14<Guest3916>hi all
09:14<daemonkeeper>Guest3585: You are in the wrong channel
09:15<streuner__>he might uses a LIVE-CD...
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09:15<daemonkeeper>Well, let's give him a chance then.
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09:16<Guest3916>how did you know I use a LIVE-CD?
09:16<ComradeHaz`>[14:14:26] ubuntu [~ubuntu@58.39.122.230] is now known as Guest3916
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09:16<seeS>magic voodoo
09:16<daemonkeeper>Can we help you Guest3585?
09:17<ComradeHaz`>or even Guest3916?
09:17<ComradeHaz`>xD
09:17<daemonkeeper>Now I'm confused :D
09:17<themill>morph_work: good luck with that :) forward porting php won't be too hard though. apt-get source php5=fooversion; dch --local morph60 -m blah blah; reprepro php5*.changes etc.
09:17<daemonkeeper>Guest3916 indeed
09:17<ComradeHaz`>You can try to help me!
09:18<Guest3916>I am 3916
09:18<Guest3916>no thx :)
09:18<ComradeHaz`>I'm getting the following messages in syslog very regulalry. "pam_limits(cron:session): Unknown kernel rlimit 'Max realtime timeout' ignored". Any thoughts, anyone?
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09:20<morph_work>themill: thanks anyway, it's nice that with that pinning I got http://paste.debian.net/115747/ but not on dist-upgrade
09:20<morph_work>I'll go with a quick&dirty solution
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09:21<themill>morph_work: more fiddling with pinning other things will solve that I guess. (php5-common, maybe)
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09:27<dominick_>Hi! The UPS went off when I was updating and then I ran "dpkg --configure -a". When I tried to upgrade again, the output is http://paste.debian.net/115749/ . please help me fix the package manager...
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09:33<blueVenom>i have a question about installing a version of debian...i have an old ibm with no optical drive...i connected the hdd using a data cable...i am running debian on this box and was curious if there was an easy to install debian while using this box
09:34<dvs>USB?
09:34<blueVenom>yes
09:34<dvs>If you can boot off of a USB drive then you can try it that way.
09:35<blueVenom>i was wanting to install it while still using this system
09:35<blueVenom>perhaps chroot and unpack stage3 if i have to
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09:35<blueVenom>just curious if there were an easier way of doing
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09:40<ComradeHaz`>blueVenom: http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/
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09:41<ComradeHaz`>blueVenom: That's an absolutely fantastic little tool.
09:41<blueVenom>the computer i want to install to doesn't support usb booting...
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09:41<ComradeHaz`>lol
09:41<ComradeHaz`>sure?
09:41<blueVenom>by the looks of it...my best option is to chroot into the drive and install that way...
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09:41<ComradeHaz`>well
09:42<blueVenom>the laptop i want to install this to is an ibm from '96
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09:42<blueVenom>doesn't support a lot of things
09:42<ComradeHaz`>linux doesn't really care about hardware
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09:42<ComradeHaz`>just install on another computer and swap the drive over
09:42<ComradeHaz`>It won't bother it.
09:42<blueVenom>i know...i have done that before
09:42<ComradeHaz`>as long as you don't use wrong architecture
09:42<blueVenom>i have installed gentoo by chroot and grabbing stage3...but not sure how the process works for debian
09:42<ComradeHaz`>No need
09:43<ComradeHaz`>Do the complete install on another machine.
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09:43<blueVenom>i understand...but i have no ide machines right now...i have the drive connected to this box already...
09:43<ComradeHaz`>ie, turn other machine off. Unplug hard discs, install to 'new' hard disc. Put 'new' hard disc in old crappy box. Put 'other machine' back together again
09:44<blueVenom>i know what you mean
09:44<ComradeHaz`>o.O
09:44<ComradeHaz`>'No IDE machines?
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09:44<blueVenom>i have installed linux that way before
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09:44<blueVenom>ide drive...
09:44<ComradeHaz`>Not sure I've seen a MoBo yet withut at least one IDE bus
09:44<blueVenom>laptop
09:44<valdyn>blueVenom: cdrom drive?
09:44<ComradeHaz`>Ah
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09:45<venom00ut>grrrr, change nick blueVenom :)
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09:50<otzi>hello. Is openjdk broken on sid today?
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10:03<FransUrbo>I've had a bunch of chroot's on EXT3 where they worked fine. But I moved all of them to a big XFS (mounted with inode64) a couple of weeks ago
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10:03<FransUrbo>Now they won't work... I get:
10:03<FransUrbo>Celia/LENNY# apt-get
10:03<FransUrbo>E: Unable to determine a suitable packaging system type
10:03<FransUrbo>Anyone got an idea?
10:05<grandpapriz>I dual book Debian and Ubuntu, and just upgraded Ubuntu, and got a messafe that I am out of range.....caan;t boot at all......can anyone help?
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10:07<aliceinwire>why cowbuilder is not working :( http://paste.pocoo.org/show/381561/ ?
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10:08<mr040>Hello :) Quick query.. I've two xen virtual machines and I want to set up them as NFS servers, e.g. with failover/ha. Ive seen lots of tutorials for drbd replicating the data, would it not be possible to share the xen virtual disc between the hosts instead? or am I completely off
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10:12<grandpapriz>by upgrading Ubuntu, I have lost the boot path.....is there anyway to recover ???? Please
10:13<ansgar>!ubuntu
10:13<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it is unlikely to live up to Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu (irc.freenode.net) instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian>.
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10:15<tzafrir_laptop>grandpapriz, what do you mean?
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10:15<tzafrir_laptop>what's the boot loader? grub1? grub2?
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10:16<grandpapriz>grub (1 or 2?)
10:16<grandpapriz>sorry ment that to be a )
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10:23<grandpapriz>I guess I will re-install Squeeze, and I at leaset have 95% of my files on a thumb drive. Thanks for the comeback though
10:24<LetoPoole>grandpapriz: it seems ubuntu broke boot
10:24<grandpapriz>it sure did
10:24<grandpapriz>really killed it
10:24<LetoPoole>why reinstall squeeze? reinstall ubuntu, or even check if you can fix the boot from alive cd
10:25<LetoPoole>ubutnu fscked my system sometimes, but usually boot is fixable with the live cd
10:25<LetoPoole>if that doesn't work... erase and reinstall :=)
10:25<grandpapriz>I tried to fix it from a live cd, and it only wants to install
10:25<LetoPoole>na, run it so it loads the whole DE in the live cd
10:25<devil>LetoPoole: why reinstall something that fails?
10:25<LetoPoole>once there
10:26<LetoPoole>open a terminal
10:26<grandpapriz>ok, I will go at it for a while, and thanks again
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10:26<LetoPoole>devil: cause sometimes debian has failed on me, and reinstalling fixed
10:26<LetoPoole>usually reinstalling with a diff ISO
10:26<devil>hm, debian does not fail for me
10:26<grandpapriz>nor me, it's Ubuntu who did it]
10:27<LetoPoole>that's true
10:27-!-noi [~noi@1GLAABA8H.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:27<LetoPoole>but my experience on ubuntu showed me manyu boot issues
10:27<LetoPoole>fixable with the livecd
10:27<grandpapriz>ok, I am ole coot, 79 and would love to have a command to use when I get to a teeminal???
10:28<LetoPoole>debian has failed on me with newer hardware (couple years back, diff PC)
10:28<devil>please take it to an ubuntu channel
10:28<devil>!ubuntu
10:28<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it is unlikely to live up to Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu (irc.freenode.net) instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian>.
10:29<ompaul>install squeeze and it won't fail methinks
10:29<grandpapriz>bye and thanks again
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10:31-!-mode/#debian [+l 492] by debhelper
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10:37<Roottttz>hello
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10:37<Roottttz>do i write in the right channel?
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10:39<zeglor>Hello everyone! I have a problem installing debian 6.0.1a-amd64 from DVD - the installation process freezes on "Initializing python" step (about 74%). I use AMD Phenom X4 B25 processor, ASUS M4A77T motherboard, Saphire HD5770 graphics card and Seagate Barracuda 7200 HD. Could anyone help me?
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10:40<OdyX>zeglor: what do you mean by "freeze" ? How long did you wait ?
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10:40<OdyX>zeglor: is the disc you install to full ?
10:40<Roottttz>you sure its the dvd and not the netinstall?
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10:41<linux_user>whois linux_user
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10:42<OdyX>zeglor: please keep your answers in the public chan.
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10:43<zeglor>sorry. i've been waiting about 2 hours and the installation failed to progress. i'm sure it's the dvd
10:44<OdyX>zeglor: is your target disk big enough ?
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10:45<OdyX>zeglor: ctrl-alt-f2 works ?
10:45<zeglor>Odyx : yes, i've allocated 200 Gb for debian
10:45<zeglor>havent tried
10:45<OdyX>zeglor: separate partitions ?
10:47<zeglor>what do you mean? i have 2 partitions for windows and 2 for debian now
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10:47<OdyX>zeglor: could you ctrl-alt-f2, enter, df -h ?
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10:48<zeglor>OdyX: okay, i'll try. what will happen, btw?:)
10:48<cthuluh>ever heard of a "Time Protocol" client in debian (not an ntp client)?
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10:49<cthuluh>I'm looking for a TP client that could set the clock
10:50<OdyX>zeglor: ctrl-alt-f2 gives you a console, <enter> activates it. df -h shows the disk space occupation.
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10:51<blueVenom>aight...so i used debootstrap to install a squeeze base system to my drive...but when i chroot into i get a seg fault and unsure why...
10:52<blueVenom>mount /proc and /dev with bind
10:52<blueVenom>any ideas?
10:52<zeglor>OdyX: thanks, i'll try it now
10:52<kooll>blueVenom: segfault is unusual. Is in a 'pure' squeeze base, or some modified version by some hosting provider?
10:53<kooll>(including, most likely, grsec patches ? )
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10:53<blueVenom>pure...i used debootstrap to install the base to the drive and it got the files from the debian.org server
10:53<kooll>ah, no, I understood incorrectly.
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10:54<kooll>blueVenom: what is the system you used debootrap on ? outside the chroot ?
10:54<blueVenom>i'm running squeeze on this box...and the drive is connected via usb and mounted in /mnt/disk
10:54<blueVenom>then debootsrap squeeze /mnt/disk
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10:54<blueVenom>i edited the fstab...mounted /dev and /proc with bind option...
10:54<blueVenom>chroot...and get seg fault
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10:54<blueVenom>i have no idea why i'm getting the seg fault
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10:57<blueVenom>so...any ideas?
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11:11<blueVenom>so...any ideas on this chroot issue of mine?
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11:14<seth>HI
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11:26<blueVenom>strace chroot gives me this error: mmap2(0xb75ea000, 6120, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0xb75ea000
11:26<blueVenom>close(3) = 0
11:26<blueVenom>--- SIGSEGV (Segmentation fault) @ 0 (0) ---
11:26<blueVenom>any clues?
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11:28<Garp>Hi.
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11:31<zeglor>OdyX: well i guess the free space wasn't the problem, because it uses about 2% of it when the installation freezes
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11:31<ao2>blueVenom, I don't know exactly, but it looks like fd parameter is -1. Maybe some open() call failed before that mmap2()?
11:32<blueVenom>su
11:32-!-ragger [~ragger@c-fa01e353.110-6-64736c15.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #debian
11:33<Garp>Question: My machine as (since very long) big problems to boot. Boot takes verly long (speaking about 10 to more than 30mn here) , and is strangely accelerated by typing 'return' on the keyboard, that "helps" the lines to appear on screen. Moreover, since a few releaxse, the whole USB system is stuck for several minutes while booting (lights under the mouse is down, keyboard is dead -so I cannot any more accelerate the boot) and then so
11:33<blueVenom>http://pastebin.ca/2052890 entire strace output
11:33<ragger>hi! I have a server, were alot of users have their own www-folder. And all os these suers just have access to their own home folder. I wanna make a account that has access to ALL home folders. read and write access
11:33<ragger>how do I do it?
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11:36<ragger>The thing I wanna do is to have an account to have the same full access as root has, except only to the /home directory. and all directorys and files under it
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11:39<bim_ir_>hi again! I got my system to recognise my hard drives
11:40-!-faw0 is now known as faw
11:40<bim_ir_>i.e.: new kernel re-built with IDE_PMAC=y now boots!
11:40<bim_ir_>it costed me ~1 week
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11:45<julian>ola
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11:45<julian>ola
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11:48<armani>i was playing around with my settings for my proxy, firewall and installed tor and polipo, now my internet won't connect to something simple like apt-get, can anyone give me some advice? i'm running amd64 squeeze...
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11:50<me1988>I wanna chroot some applications (like web browser, etc.). What do you suggest, schroot or dchroot?
11:52<daemonkeeper>Running a browser in a chroot is more complicated than you would imagine
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11:52<stevenrossuk>Fresh install of Debian testing is giving me the error: udev error binding udev control socket failed! Possible solutions?
11:52<daemonkeeper>Or generally an application not supporting this natively.
11:53<me1988><daemonkeeper>: Don't you think this is a good how to for it? http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-desktop-74/running-browser-as-a-different-user-in-a-chroot-778362/
11:53<daemonkeeper>me1988: That's a bit more than a chroot though, that's a whole base system.
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11:55<me1988><daemonkeeper>: Is there another method you suggest to fully sandbox a browser from the system (my processor is weak and does not support virtualization)?
11:55<daemonkeeper>me1988: Given that, this would probably work, yes.
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11:55<daemonkeeper>No, virtualization would have been my suggestion
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11:55<ragger>How do I do if I want a user to have fulle read&write access to /home and every folder and files in /home?/
11:55<daemonkeeper>Note you don't necessarily need virtualization support in the CPU
11:56<daemonkeeper>Xen for example runs fine without when used for PV domains
11:56<daemonkeeper>This does not make your problem easier though
11:56<me1988><daemonkeeper>: I have already been doing software virtualization, it's very slow and annoying
11:56<ragger>full*
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11:57<me1988><daemonkeeper>: all in all, chrooting is appropriate in my case, isn't it?
11:57<daemonkeeper>Yes
11:57<daemonkeeper>But not inherently sure
11:57<daemonkeeper>*safe
11:57<daemonkeeper>I meant
11:58<stevenrossuk>Diagnostic advice would be gratefully received with my udev problem too.
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11:59<me1988><daemonkeeper>: You mean it's easy for a malicious to compromise the browser and break out of the chroot?
11:59<me1988>*malicious site
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12:00<daemonkeeper>me1988: A malicious site by definition can't do anything (unless the HTML/Javascript rendering engine is faulty) since it is not able to execute any native code on your machine. This changes as soon as you start using Flash, Java, $other_plugin
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12:02<daemonkeeper>me1988: This won't protect you from web application issues though (neither a chrooted browser does though)
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12:02<daemonkeeper>Say XSS, CSRF and all this funny stuff
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12:03<me1988><daemonkeeper>: And you think when activating scripts, Plugins, JavaScript, etc. it's likely that the jail will be broken?
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12:05<Bulb>Hello folks. I started to have problems with sound since some recent update. KDE says the default device (HDA ATI SB (ALC889A Analog)) does not work. When I try aplay, it says the device (/dev/snd/pcmC0D0p) is BUSY and SDL applications hang on exit trying to join the audio thread which seems to be blocked.
12:05<daemonkeeper>Likelihood is a matter of statistics, it is not entirely impossible at least, although the chroot improves security a lot. Javascript can't do anything harmful on your local system (again asuming the browsers rendering engine is not vulnerable)
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12:06<Bulb>On 21st April the computer booted and the session started fine and xmms2 played and I remember that SDL applications were hanging before I rebooted on Sunday. Since than nothing plays at all.
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12:06<me1988><daemonkeeper>: Given that, I do not understand the security risk you were addressing
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12:07<daemonkeeper>me1988: A chroot is not for security. Over the years people discovered dozens of possibilites to escape from a chroot
12:07<Bulb>I have history of all package installs and removals since than, but I can't find anything obvious there. alsa-base, alsa-utils and libasound2 were updated in that period, but I tried downgrading them again and it didn't seem to help.
12:08<daemonkeeper>me1988: It makes things more complicated, but not impossible.
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12:10<cahoot>Bulb: anything using sound atm? fuser -v /dev/snd/* /dev/dsp*
12:10<Bulb>There was a big KDE update including phonon, but it was before the previous reboot, so I wasn't that. On the other hand I removed old KDE3 cruft in the critical period, which included removing remains of ARTS. That took oss-compat along as no longer needed, but I reinstalled it.
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12:10<Bulb>cahoot: phonon comes up in lsof.
12:10<Bulb>However, testing sound in KDE produces nothing, kde says sound does not work.
12:11<Bulb>If I kill it, KDE restarts it immediately.
12:11<cahoot>alsa force-reload makes no change?
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12:11<cahoot>Bulb: can't one disable phonon from inside kde?
12:12<Bulb>However when I tried without X running, killing the remaining phonon processes did cause a change. aplay no longer said the device was busy.
12:12<Bulb>It produced no sound, but it might have been muted somewhere.
12:12<Bulb>I am not sure how to disable phonon from KDE, unfortunately :-(
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12:13<cahoot>Bulb: /etc/init.d/alsa-utils reset 0 should unmute and set reasonable levels
12:13<Bulb>I'll try to force-reload alsa, but I rebooted several times when testing it.
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12:14<cahoot>not much use reloading alsa then I suppose
12:15<me1988><daemonkeeper>: I guess you mean that second chroot thing (read about that on Wikipedia ). Most of the concerns are justifiable afaik when the user got full access to the chrooted environment and is trying to break out. I thought lots of paranoid people were indeed chrooting browsers for enhanced security, or am I wrong? Otherwise the only solution were virtualization and that has been common for just a couple of years now
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12:15<Bulb>cahoot: Actually force-reloading and resetting alsa-utils did help at least to the point that aplay did play something.
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12:17<Bulb>So it apparently undid something the phonon service done to it -- the phonon service starts running under "speech-dispatcher" user before I log in, so I never tested after reboot without this phonon ever starting.
12:18<Bulb>... I'll try to run two concurrent players, since that is supposed to work, right?
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12:20<Bulb>cahoot: Two aplay processes multiplex fine even when run under different users (I was testing from root console and started the other from user one)
12:20<Bulb>So now the question is what damage the phonon server does to it...
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12:21<cahoot>maybe the trick is to point other apps to phonon?
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12:23<Bulb>cahoot: That feels wrong. The applications can multiplex just fine when phonon is not running or if it's damage is undone by reseting alsa.
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12:23<cahoot>ok
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12:24<Bulb>cahoot: Even further. Now I killed the phonon process, KDE restarted it, but I could *still* play with aplay.
12:24<Bulb>There is something wrong with how phonon is started at boot time - because as I said, it is.
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12:26<daemonkeeper>me1988: People using chroots for security have no clue. It helps a bit, but it is more like security by obscurity and able to prevent simple attacks only. Virtualization on the other hand /is/ security relevant, there are even (experimental) distributions allowing to run desktop applications in a virtual machine container. Can't remember its name, but I read recently about a testing ready distribution
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12:26<Bulb>cahoot: And - by looking at the log (I use etcguard) it turns out that package 'pulseaudio' (did I say phonon? braino!) was installed when I removed arts - in the critical period.
12:27<Bulb>cahoot: Thanks for help!
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12:27<cahoot>np
12:29<Bulb>cahoot: Actually pulseaudio was not installed due to KDE, but due to single package depending on esound and pulseaudio-esound-compat getting selected when I removed arts. So I don't need it. I'll try to file a bug against it before removing it.
12:29<Bulb>Thanks. Good bye.
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12:32<me1988>daemonkeeper: thanks for your assistance
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12:33<daemonkeeper>me1988: FWIW there are also lightweight containers (basically a chroot + context switch) which turn the chroot concept into something actually secure. For example linux-vserver, user mode linux, lxc, ...
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12:34<me1988>daemonkeeper: and that stuff works on CPUs incapable of VT?
12:35<daemonkeeper>Yes, depending on the particular technique it does nothing than add a context switch to the kernel which truly isolates a container/process from the remaining parts
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12:39<Bulb>I'll add one more thing. pulseaudio is started (at least here) before alsa-utils. In rc*.d, pulseaudio is S05 while alsa-utils is S21. I'll try moving pulseaudio to after alsa-utils and if it than works, the bug report to make shall be clear...
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12:41<Bulb>OOPS! But alsa-utils is in rcS.d ... obviously, I am stupid.
12:42<LetoPoole_>Bulb: try starting pulse as a normal user
12:42<LetoPoole_>from startup session
12:42<sney>eh, I can barely keep track of runlevel stuff myself
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12:42<LetoPoole_>i read ages ago pulse devs recommend starting pulse as a normal user
12:42<LetoPoole_>if I could find it....
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12:43<Bulb>LetoPoole_: I'll try. On the other hand, it does not matter too much now. I will report a bug and remove it, because there was one program that needed esound and that I don't need anyway, so I can just stop it or remove it altogether.
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12:46<Bulb>LetoPoole_: Hm, even more strange -- pulseaudio has PULSEAUDIO_SYSTEM_START=0 both in /etc/init.d/pulseaudio and in /etc/defaults/pulseaudio, so it's not being started by that script at all. Must be started by something else. I remember it was running as 'speech-dispatcher' user, so I'll look at which package might be starting something as that user.
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12:49<bim_ir_>CONFIG_USB_HID=m <<< is this a problem?
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12:50-!-s_i_m [~s_i_m@desunote.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:50<sney>bim_ir_: no
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12:51<sney>bim_ir_: why would it be a problem?
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12:51<me1988>does OpenVZ prerequire a CPU with virtualization extensions?
12:51<bim_ir_>sney: because my keyboard and mouse are not recongized
12:51-!-test [test@ppp79-139-233-88.pppoe.spdop.ru] has joined #debian
12:51<jhutchins_lt>udev sid
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12:51<jhutchins_lt>!udev sid
12:51<dpkg>udev 167-1 in sid is currently broken, because it tries to use /run created by base-files 6.2 which is not yet supported by the initscripts version in sid. Downgrade udev, libudev0, libgudev-1.0-0 to 166-1 and base-files to 6.1 and remove /run to fix it. Install <apt-listbugs> and see #620995, #620191, #621036 and http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2011/04/msg00353.html for details.
12:51<sney>either that or X allowemptyinput
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12:52<bim_ir_>jhutchins_lt: what does udev do with kernel's usb hid support?
12:53<bim_ir_>generic keyboard on runlevel 3 tty login...
12:53<jhutchins_lt>bim_ir_: Seems to be a common symptom.
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12:53<jhutchins_lt>bim_ir_: Especially among people who run sid or testing but don't follow the dev list.
12:54<bim_ir_>jhutchins_lt: I do run unstable, and haven't subscribed to debian mail list
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12:55<sney>!pieces
12:55<dpkg>( The great thing about running sid is that, when it breaks you get to keep ALL the pieces!! )
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12:55<jhutchins_lt>bim_ir_: ... and you have no keyboard or mouse, whadda ya know?
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12:55<test>#debian
12:55<bim_ir_>jhutchins_lt: I do have keyboard and mouse!
12:55<jhutchins_lt>Ok, fine.
12:55<sney>test: that's where you are
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12:56<Bulb>Hm, there is a speech-dispatcher package that got pulled in because I wanted to try kttsd. It starts *before* pulseaudio and clearly triggers pulseaudio to start as it's user. And it's init-script runs before the pulseaudio one; and even if it ran after, pulseaudio is by default *not* configured to start as system daemon. And together they are somehow locking up the alsa module, even though alsa-utils are already initialized and if I later re-initialize al
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12:56<bim_ir_>jhutchins_lt: with debian's stock 2.6.32 kernel from testing, keyboard is okay
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12:57<bim_ir_>yes, it *is* USB_HID=y
12:57<bim_ir_>thanks
12:57<r4co0n>So, I just was of the opinion that my NTFS-formatted external usb-hdd should be attached to my squeeze-box rather than Windows. I had it there once with Lenny. To update the fstab I need the drives UUID, which, as stated in /etc/fstab, can be obtained by running vol-id --uuid. But this command seems to be unknown, I couldnt find it, whereis brings back nothing after the colon. Help pls?
12:58<jhutchins_lt>r4co0n: Aptitude install apt-file.
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12:59<r4co0n>jhutchins_lt: Shouldn't this be mentioned in fstab as well? Documentation flaw or am I just stupid ;) ?
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12:59<jhutchins_lt>r4co0n: No, it's a generic response to "what package has utility foo in it", which is pretty much what you should ask when you get "command not found".
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13:01-!-mode/#debian [+l 498] by debhelper
13:01<r4co0n>jhutchins_lt: What I mean is: Shouldnt in the comment in the by default implemented fstab NO software be referenced which is NOT installed by default?
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13:01<jhutchins_lt>I suppose the package name could be added to the fstab text.
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13:02<r4co0n>jhutchins_lt: Where would I file such a request?
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13:04<r4co0n>jhutchins_lt: sudo: vol_id: command not found... After having apt-file installed.
13:05<jhutchins_lt>r4co0n: Not sure. It's not worthy of a bugreport, because nothing is actually wrong and the knowledge that if a command is not found you need to find and install it is assumed to be pretty basic.
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13:05<jhutchins_lt>r4co0n: Yes, apt-file is a serarch utility to help you find the command, it does not contain the command itself.
13:06<r4co0n>jhutchins_lt: that was dumb. sry
13:06<jhutchins_lt>No prob.
13:06<jhutchins_lt>However, I think there may be an error somewhere, I'm not finding vol_id.
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13:08<r4co0n>Me neither, just a script belonging to fai
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13:09<r4co0n>To solve my problem, how can I find out the UUID of a drive of which I know the /dev/sd*
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13:10<jhutchins_lt>r4co0n: vol_id has been replaced by blkid
13:10<jhutchins_lt>r4co0n: Which should be installed by default.
13:10<jhutchins_lt>r4co0n: This IS worthy of a bugreport.
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13:11<jhutchins_lt>r4co0n: I think the bugreport should be against the installer though, it's what sets up the fstab.
13:13<r4co0n>jhutchins_lt: So against debian-installer, right?
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13:13<jhutchins_lt>r4co0n: I think so.
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13:18<r4co0n>Is it normal for a usb-hdd UUID to be lots shorter than the other in fstab?
13:21<r4co0n>r4co0n: Yes
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13:21<PIrr>r4co0n, NTFS-UUID is shorter than extX-UUID
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13:22<r4co0n>PIrr: thx for clarification
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13:22<PIrr>np
13:22<david>hi
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13:26<ComradeHaz`>Hi all. Had an application listening on a port that didn't close cleanly and now when I start it says the port is in use. Is there anything I can restart to sort this out?
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13:31<ComradeHaz`>nm, sorted it :)
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13:52<goncalo>Hi everyone
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13:52<goncalo>good afternoon
13:53-!-Volley [~worf@178-191-199-12.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:53<goncalo>I need some help on something..
13:54<goncalo>I would like to know what are the diferences between using linux debian and/or ubuntu or mint
13:54<goncalo>I am currently using mint debian
13:54<goncalo>are there any advantages in moving to debian?
13:56<me1988>goncalo: If you are familiar using the command line - yes
13:56<cahoot>!tell goncalo about why debian
13:58<goncalo>I am becoming familiar with the command line
13:58<goncalo>and shoul I go for the stable version or testing?
13:58-!-mase [~mase@kemp-5d860c3b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #debian
13:58<goncalo>and what desktop environment?
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14:02<keessince1988>it's all about taste and your own preferences, if you want to stay up2date then go for Testing
14:02<keessince1988>if you want gnome you go for gnome, if you want anything else then go for that one
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14:02<keessince1988>if you want to have full security support then go for stable ;-)
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14:03<keessince1988>i currently use debian experimental/unstable... because i want to try out gnome 3
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14:04<wferreira79>hi all
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14:05<keessince1988>but i feel most comfortable with debian testing - gnome... but gnome 3 isn't in it yet so that's why i use unstable/experimental for the moment... i like to have some security support and stability that comes along with testing
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14:07<cahoot>goncalo: the sensible advice is: stable
14:08<Blitzmerker>hi, is there a way to tell e.g. "dd" not to lie? It tells me that it is copying at ~100MB/s to an usb-stick...
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14:17<PIrr>thats because of caching
14:17<nyov>Blitzmerker: that would be disabling the write-cache, change your fstab entry
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14:18<nyov>Blitzmerker: you want somwthing like /dev/sdb1 /media/usb vfat user,sync,dirsync 0 0
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14:20<Blitzmerker>nyov: can I disable the write-cache by default for automounted usb-sticks?
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14:20<omidp>hey guys how can i solve this problem? You must have GTK+ 2.10.0 or newer development headers installed
14:20<nyov>Blitzmerker: I do not know about automounters, but that should be possible in some config
14:21<Lethalman>omidp, apt-get install libgtk2.0-dev
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14:22<omidp>it gives error : The following packages have unmet dependencies:
14:22<omidp> libgtk2.0-dev : Depends: libgdk-pixbuf2.0-dev (>= 2.21.0) but it is not going to be installed
14:22<omidp>E: Broken packages
14:23<keessince1988>Blitzmerker: sync and async How the input and output to the filesystem should be done. sync means it's done synchronously. If you look at the example fstab, you'll notice that this is the option used with the floppy. In plain English, this means that when you, for example, copy a file to the floppy, the changes are physically written to the floppy at the same time you issue the copy command.
14:23<keessince1988>
14:23<keessince1988>However, if you have the async option in /etc/fstab, input and output is done asynchronously. Now when you copy a file to the floppy, the changes may be physically written to it long time after issuing the command. This isn't bad, and may sometimes be favorable, but can cause some nasty accidents: if you just remove the floppy without unmounting it first, the copied file may not physically exist on the floppy yet!
14:23<keessince1988>
14:23<keessince1988>async is the default. However, it may be wise to use sync with the floppy, especially if you're used to the way it's done in Windows and have a tendency to remove floppies before unmounting them first.
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14:23<keessince1988>so edit your /etc/fstab and change async to sync... everyone agrees? i'm not sure ;-)
14:24<nyov>omidp: just install that package aswell
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14:25<r4co0n>sure, but the question is: can this be done at automount of certain types of devices? this would be rly interesting
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14:26<keessince1988>automount any device or a particular device? with the command 'df' you can see which devices are mounted, i've automounted my MyBook external hard drive with fstab
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14:29<nyov>r4co0n: that would depend on the automounter, right? like for nautilus/gvfs I'd wildly guess it's probably hidden in gconf somewhere
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14:30<r4co0n>gonna read man nautilus...
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14:34<r4co0n>"Apparently sync mode has several disadvantages, like reducing life of the drive and greatly reduced speed in some situations. "
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14:37<PIrr>r4co0n: do you want the time to be correct or the data written imediatley?
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14:38<PIrr>I mean the speed not the time
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14:41<raylu>is there a workaround for http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=623596 ?
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14:44<nyov>raylu: it might help to know what your problem is exactly
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14:44<raylu>the problem described in the bug: the pkcs12 functions in mumble don't work
14:44<raylu>so i can't import or export certificates
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14:49<nyov>raylu: best would be downgrade
14:49<raylu>downgrade what?
14:49<nyov>raylu: since pretty much stuff depends on openssl that might not be easy, idk. but maybe still possible this early
14:50<nyov>downgrade openssl
14:50<raylu>haha. no way.
14:50<raylu>tre:~$ aptitude -s purge libssl1.0.0
14:50<raylu>0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 377 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
14:50<raylu>the good news is i save 1.2GB of hard drive space if i do it ;)
14:50<nyov>i did not say purge
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14:51<raylu>purge is remove =\
14:51<nyov>if this works depend on how much stuff already depends on openssl > 0.9.8 in wheezy
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14:52<nyov>raylu: are you comfortable in aptitude?
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14:52<raylu>i'd say so
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14:54<josealberto>hola!
14:54<nyov>then add stable to your apt sources.list and find openssl in aptitude and try installing the 0.9.8 version there, see if conflicts pop up
14:54<josealberto>una consulta, alguien sabe si libreoffice es mas liviano que openoffice, es decir consume menos recursos!?
14:54<raylu>nyov: both 0.9.8 and 1.0.0 are installed, which is the problem (as describe in the bug report). 0.9.8 is in wheezy
14:55<raylu>!es | josealberto
14:55<dpkg>| josealberto: Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat
14:55<nyov>hmm
14:55<josealberto>thanks
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14:56<nyov>ok then I understand your purge.
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14:57<josealberto>consultants, libreoffice is lighter than openoffice, consume fewer resources?
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14:58<raylu>josealberto: maybe. more importantly, openoffice developers have left for libreoffice
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14:59<Tangata>a veeeeeeeeer
14:59<Tangata>buenas!
15:00<ompaul>!es
15:00<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
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15:02<nyov>raylu: did you try downgrading mumble?
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15:07<raylu>nyov: heh. that worked. thanks
15:07<nyov>nice
15:08<deux>hi everyone, i need to update alsa (so my internal mic would work) anyone can guide me through?
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15:13<weedeater64>alsactl init
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15:33<r0ger>what could i use to parse /var/log files to check where ddos came from?
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15:34<liveuser>algum brasileiro?
15:34<sney>!br
15:34<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
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15:35<sever>thx
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15:37<jhutchins_lt>r0ger: The point of a Distributed DOS is it doesn't come from anywhere in particular.
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15:37<r0ger>jhutchins_lt: my issue is when i looked by hand through my logs, i couldn't find where 100mbit of data came from
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15:37<r0ger>a steady hour of 100mbit hit my box which is firewalled off quite a bit
15:38<jhutchins_lt>r0ger: Take a look at the throttle option for iptables.
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15:39<r0ger>jhutchins_lt: i'm aware of that option and actually have all incoming syn and icmp blocked for instance.. i'm more concerned on finding where the data came from and what it was hitting..
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15:39<r0ger>throttling wont help if i don't know what to throttle and/or why i was being dos'd in the first place
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15:43<nyov>r0ger: if you figure that out, please tell me
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15:44<r0ger>nyov: i'm waiting on an email back from my data center techs so hopefully they'll have some information on to where to look/what to use.. i've been unable to find anything useful for post-dos analyzation
15:44<nyov>but if there is nothing that runs and logs the traffic it gets (daemon) /var/log wouldn't have that data (like webserver logs)
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15:45<nyov>r0ger: do you know of auditd ?
15:45<r0ger>i do not, but i will google it
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15:47<nyov>the linux auditing system can be used as a sensor for e.g. prelude IDS, to get intel on what happens on your box
15:48<nyov>maybe for next time
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16:07<sret>isnt mint debian based on debian?
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16:08<devil>sret: its based on testing, yes
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16:08<sret>oh
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16:09<sret>so officially it;s supported by debian?
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16:09<devil>sret: nope
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16:10<devil>its a derivate, like ubuntu, aptosid...
16:10<keessince1988>it's a derivative, so it's only based on debian, just like ubuntu
16:10<keessince1988>http://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives
16:10<sret>ah
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16:10<sret>like sidux
16:10<devil>sret: sidux is gone, now calledaptosid
16:11<devil>called aptosid
16:11<sret>ah right
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16:11<sret>a plain debian install would take no more than 800mb?
16:11<sret>for just core files?
16:11<sret>almost like a linux mint install eh?
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16:13<keessince1988>i guess so, you could just install the kernel and then install gnome-session, gdm, gnome-terminal and gnome-panel :P and then the apps you would like as an extra ;-)
16:13<keessince1988>quite minimal
16:13<keessince1988>below 800 mb that is
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16:14<keessince1988>but i prefer a complete desktop, gnome is already quite minimum if you ask me
16:14<sret>ok
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16:14<keessince1988>the normal installation is about 800 mb yes
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16:14<sret>just comparing thats all
16:15<sret>in the docs i remember it said 800mb or so just fotr core files, just trying to recollect
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16:16<keessince1988>if the docs say so then i agree it's 800, without a doubt ;-)
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16:16<sret>k
16:16<sret>in the process of converting a mind user
16:16<sret>mint user
16:16<sret>shh
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16:21<planet8>How do I get the /etc/hosts file to be used first? I have a webserver on a LAN that I just call webserver.com, and I have set up hosts with "192.168.60.5 webserver", yet when I do a "host webserver.com" it will still use the real one on the Internet.
16:21-!-debsan [~debsan@190.245.77.71] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:22<planet8>Looking in nsswitch.conf hosts is marked with "files dns", so it should work.
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16:23<Arrowmaster>i think the host command always does a lookup to a name server
16:24<Arrowmaster>yeah `host localhost` fails
16:24<retrospectacus>planet8: Arrowmaster speaks true. "host" ignores /etc/hosts
16:24<planet8>Arrowmaster, ofcourse, you're right. ping shows the local ip.
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16:24<planet8>But iceweasel seems to use dns first.
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16:25<planet8>or maybe I just need to fix apache right.. Arrowmaster, thanks.. I was sleeping.
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16:25<Arrowmaster>it might have it cached
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16:26<Arrowmaster>i know iceweasel does gethostbyname() because it violates the spec on what is a valid http url because it passes the address directly to gethostbyname()
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16:29<planet8>Arrowmaster, thanks.
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16:30<pavel>noflex
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16:37<grove>Hi, I know this isn't debian-specific, but when I tried installing squeeze, on my desktop computer, with / on RAID1 (md) like I have done at work, installing GRUB failed, with "warn: This GPT partition label has no BIOS Boot Partition; embedding won't be possible!." and "error: embedding is not possible, but this is required when the root device is on a RAID array or LVM volume." on the console. I don't really know what GPT, "BIOS Boot Partition" and embedding i
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16:38<retrospectacus>grove: you got cut off: ...Partition" and embedding i
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16:40<grove>retrospectacus: Sorry, '...Partition" and embedding is about, so what to do?'
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16:44<jhutchins_lt>grove: Did you read the relase notes?
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16:47<grove>jhutchins_lt: Not specifically for this install, I've installed Squeeze in my office computer at work and twice on my laptop, so I thought I knew what installing squeeze was about
16:47<jhutchins_lt>grove: Done it on RAID before?
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16:47<jhutchins_lt>!squeeze release notes
16:47<dpkg>Release Notes for Debian 6.0 (Squeeze) are at http://www.debian.org/releases/squeeze/releasenotes . See also http://bugs.debian.org/release-notes and http://wiki.debian.org/NewInSqueeze . Also ask me about <i-g>, <firmware images>, <install squeeze>, <errata>, <lenny->squeeze>.
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16:48<jhutchins_lt>grove: I just know we get this question all the time, there's GOT to be something on it.
16:48<grove>jhutchins_lt: Yes, I have four discs in RAID 1+0 at work
16:49<grove>Checking them now
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16:52<grove>But at work, it was a set of clean (or to be seen as such, they had been used by one of my colleagues) discs, at home there are raided partitions with a /home I'd like to reserve
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17:00<dsr>Anyone getting the 'Hash Sum mismatch' errors on 'apt-get update' ?
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17:01<grove>jhutchins_lt: The closest I can find in the release notes is section 5.1.2 "mdadm metadata format change requires recent Grub", but I don't see how it applies, I actually created the RAID device from the squeeze installer (there's a long story about why it wasn't raided before) and I actually did check /proc/mdstat and saw it said metadata format 1.2, so it should work with the Grub from squeeze?
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17:13<jhutchins_lt>grove: I just know I've seen the question before, but I don't remember seeing the answer. Yes, with a md created in the installer. Squeeze uses grub2 by default, which should be able to handle it.
17:14<jhutchins_lt>!tell grove about ig
17:14<jhutchins_lt>grove: Possibly something in the IG?
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17:19<dsr>Anyone getting the 'Hash Sum mismatch' errors on 'apt-get update' ? I am currently on sid
17:19<dsr>I have had this problem since friday
17:19<dsr>s/since/on
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17:23<retrospectacus>dsr: try some alternate sources. I use http://debian.mirror.iweb.ca/debian/ sid
17:23<retrospectacus>woop it says sum mismatch too
17:24<retrospectacus>!pieces
17:24<dpkg>( The great thing about running sid is that, when it breaks you get to keep ALL the pieces!! )
17:24<dsr>i am amazed that this isn't a popular bug
17:25<demooriaan>german mirror works
17:25<demooriaan>at least some hours ago
17:25<devil>right, De works
17:25<dsr>Can someon point me to what the issue is ?
17:25<dsr>a bug number or some such..
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17:26<devil>there is no bug numbers for that, it goes away :)
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17:42<grove>The IG is a very long document, so it's hard for me to says for sure that isn't anything, but I can't find it, and grep finds nothing about gpt
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17:49<joshua_>hi, I'm having trouble getting Compiz to work in Debian, is there anyone who can help?
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17:52<retrospectacus>joshua_: what have you tried and how is it not working?
17:52<LetoPoole_>joshua_: what video card do you have?
17:52<LetoPoole_>driver used
17:52<joshua_>Thanks for the replies
17:52<joshua_>Ok, I'll try to be specific
17:52<joshua_>This is a fresh install, Debian Squeeze AMD64
17:53<joshua_>video card: ATI Radeon HD4650
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17:54<joshua_>on the Debian site it says that in order to install Compiz I need to install a bunch of packages
17:54<sney>are you using the built-in radeon driver or fglrx? if fglrx, what method did you use to install it?
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17:55<joshua_>I don't recall specifically installing any particular driver, what's the best way to find out?
17:55<joshua_>*best way to find out which driver is being used
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17:56<grove>As far as I remember (it's been half a year since I've had a machine using fglrx) lsmod will show if fglrx is loaded
17:57<joshua_>ok, gimme a sec
17:58<joshua_>ok I did '$ lsmod'
17:58<grove>Could my problem (squeeze installer failing to setup grub on raid1) be related to the fact that my discs are 2TB?
17:58<LetoPoole_>joshua_: I have an intel.. but can you also do "cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | grep direct" ?
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17:58<LetoPoole_>do u have a line with direct rendering?
17:59<joshua_>wait a minute
17:59<LetoPoole_>sure
17:59<joshua_>I'll try your first suggestion to run ' $ cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | grep direct'
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18:00<joshua_>LetoPoole_: well I ran that command but I didn't do very much
18:01<joshua_>it returned this:
18:01<joshua_>(==) Using system config directory "/usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d"
18:01<joshua_>(WW) The directory "/usr/share/fonts/X11/cyrillic" does not exist.
18:01<LetoPoole_>you need to activate direct rendering to get compiz
18:01<joshua_>okay
18:01<LetoPoole_>perhaps only the privative driver
18:01<LetoPoole_>fgrlx
18:01<joshua_>okay
18:01<LetoPoole_>is capable of 3d with that card
18:02<joshua_>okay
18:02<LetoPoole_>see on the net if the free driver is 3d capable
18:02<LetoPoole_>may be
18:02<LetoPoole_>if not, go for fgrlx
18:02<sney>joshua_: first try with the built-in though. it needs a package called firmware-linux-nonfree to work fully
18:02<joshua_>okay, so just to get a picture of what I'm doing
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18:03<sney>1) open /etc/apt/sources.list in a text editor as root; 2) add 'contrib non-free' to the main mirror line; 3) aptitude install firmware-linux-nonfree; 4) restart X
18:03<joshua_>okay, gimme a second to do that :)
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18:04<sney>LetoPoole_: /msg dpkg uuoc
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18:05<LetoPoole_>?
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18:05<sney>do that, in your irc client
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18:06<LetoPoole_>now... thanks for the info :)
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18:09<joshua_>sney_: I've opened the sources.list, where exactly do I enter 'contrib non-free'?
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18:10<sney>joshua_: you should see a line that says something like http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian main
18:10<sney>you put it after where it says main
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18:10<joshua_>gotcha
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18:13<joshua_>ok, so I edited the line in sources.list and I ran aptitude install firmware-linux-nonfree, but it's not looking promising
18:13<joshua_>"No packages will be installed, upgraded, or removed.
18:13<joshua_>0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
18:13<joshua_>Need to get 0 B of archives. After unpacking 0 B will be used."
18:13<sney>oops, missed a step
18:13<sney>aptitude update first
18:13<joshua_>ok, I'll try that
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18:14<joshua_>ok, did aptitude update
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18:14<sney>then the install command
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18:15<joshua_>you mean the "$ aptitude install firmware-linux-nonfree"?
18:15<joshua_>I just did that but it still says it didn't actually change/install anything
18:16<ZykoticK9>joshua_, actually you'd need a # prompt (meaning you're root) to use aptitude, or sudo
18:16<EmleyMoor>I've beeen trying to get gnome-inform7 installed, but all I can get it to do is crash...
18:16<sney>hmm, maybe it's already installed. how did you install debian?
18:16<EmleyMoor>http://paste.debian.net/115669/
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18:17<joshua_>yeah I used sudo
18:17<joshua_>I also did 'su root'
18:17<joshua_>and then login as root and then those commands
18:17<sney>aptitude show firmware-linux-nonfree - does it say it's installed?
18:17<joshua_>no difference :S
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18:18<ZykoticK9>joshua_, using "su -" would be more common, you don't need to specify "root" as using
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18:18<ZykoticK9>s/using/user/
18:18<joshua_>E: Unable to locate package firmware-linux-nonfree
18:18<joshua_>That's what it returned
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18:19<sney>joshua_: can you paste your sources.list to http://paste.debian.net/ ?
18:19<joshua_>uhmm, okay
18:19<joshua_>give me a minute
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18:19<ZykoticK9>joshua_, have you enabled non-free/contrib? have you updated the source database since doing so?
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18:20<joshua_>I believe so, sney_ just told me to edit a line in sources.list enabling that I believe
18:20<sney>ZykoticK9: supposedly, that's why he's pasting his sources.list. if you're going to help out, at least look at the log
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18:20<ZykoticK9>sney, i saw your post earlier actually, but you're right - my apologies
18:21<joshua_>okay
18:21<joshua_>well, the latest was
18:21<sney>link it?
18:21-!-locus [~blabla@c122-108-71-233.sunsh1.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #debian
18:22<joshua_>I checked whether I had firmware-linux-nonfree installed
18:22<joshua_>but I got that error message back saying it couldn't find the package
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18:23<sney>if you can't paste your sources.list for whatever reason, can you at least look at it, and tell me what the line you edited says? the whole thing
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18:23<joshua_>I will, give me a minute
18:23<sney>ok
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18:24<joshua_>the line reads"
18:24<joshua_>:
18:24<joshua_>deb-src http://ftp.nl.debian.org/debian/ squeeze main contrib non-free
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18:25<sney>there isn't another one above that?
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18:25<sney>anyway, there should be a line exactly like that, only with just 'deb' at the beginning rather than 'deb-src'
18:25<sney>change that, aptitutde update again, and it'll be able to find the package
18:25<joshua_>you're right
18:26<joshua_>should I remove the contrib non-free from where it is and put on the line above?
18:26<joshua_>or put it on both lines?
18:26<sney>both is fine
18:26<joshua_>okay
18:26<joshua_>done that
18:26<joshua_>so now try install again?
18:26<sney>yea, make sure you aptitude update and then go ahead
18:27<joshua_>okay, let's see how this goes
18:27<joshua_>(brb)
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18:30<joshua_>sney_: this seems to have worked
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18:31<joshua_>I ran the check command and I'm getting a whole list of details now
18:32<joshua_>so presumably I can go ahead and install Compiz, restart X and it should work?
18:33<sney>sounds good, yeah, also install mesa-utils and run glxgears to make sure your graphics are accelerated
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18:33<joshua_>okay, I'll do that
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18:34<joshua_>synaptic says mesa-utils is installed :)
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18:34<sney>run glxgears from a terminal, it'll display the fps in the terminal window
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18:35<joshua_>yeah I see
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18:35<joshua_>how can I tell they're accelerated?
18:36<sney>what's the fps? software usually tops out at 120fps or so, and direct rendering will be much more
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18:36<joshua_>I'm averaging approx. 700 FPS
18:36<sney>good to go
18:36<joshua_>ok
18:36<joshua_>here goes nothing!
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18:37<joshua_>should I also install fusion-icon?
18:37<joshua_>or is that just an extra
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18:38<joshua_>I'll install it, shouldn't matter I don't think
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18:38<joshua_>ok, revelant packages have been installed, rebooting X now
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18:40<joshua_>it failed :(
18:40<joshua_>when I select Compiz from fusion-icon, nothing happens
18:40<sney>what failed about it? any error messages?
18:41-!-mode/#debian [+l 486] by debhelper
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18:41<joshua_>I will give you what terminal says when running 'Compiz'
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18:41<joshua_>compiz (core) - Fatal: Software rendering detected.
18:41<joshua_>compiz (core) - Error: Failed to manage screen: 0
18:41<joshua_>compiz (core) - Fatal: No manageable screens found on display :0.0 Launching fallback window manager
18:42<joshua_>this is the same error I've been getting all the time
18:42-!-debian2 [~debian2@201.Red-88-16-185.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #debian
18:42<sney>huh
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18:42<joshua_>does it mean anything to you, sney?
18:42<sney>glxinfo |grep direct
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18:42<sney>well I haven't used compiz, but you should definitely be rendering with hardware
18:42<joshua_>direct rendering: Yes
18:43<sney>yeah so I don't know why it's detecting software rendering
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18:43<sney>http://wiki.debian.org/Compiz might have more information, if you're not already there
18:43<joshua_>would you say we're dealing with an actual bug?
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18:44<sney>I doubt it, probably just a lack of information on my part since I don't know compiz
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18:44<joshua_>hmmm
18:44<joshua_>suck
18:44<sney>if we can't figure it out I'd recommend asking in the #compiz channel on irc.freenode.net
18:45<joshua_>ahhh, good advice there
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18:45<SuddenLife>compiz is normally pretty good with helping people out
18:45<joshua_>I'll check it out
18:45<SuddenLife>#compiz that is
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18:45<joshua_>gotcha
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18:58<joshua_>it seems that unfortunately there's only one guy around there and he doesn't know what's going on either :S
18:58<joshua_>oh well
18:58-!-maddie [~maddie@ool-4a5a852d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:58<joshua_>thanks a million for your patience sney =)
18:59<SuddenLife>joshua_: I would suggest waiting around that room for a little while or check back later
18:59-!-vampiro_ [~vampiro@189.240.81.192] has joined #debian
18:59<SuddenLife>its not really a great time for high population. around 9pm -7GMT is when i see things light up
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19:00<joshua_>hard thing to do with time zones and all that :(
19:00<sney>yeah, business hours in western europe is usually good too
19:01<joshua_>okay
19:01<joshua_>thanks for all the help fellas
19:01<babilen>sney, joshua_: FWIW "direct rendering: Yes" is not enough to distinguish between software/hardware rendering. The complete output is needed (or at least all the ^OpenGL ones too)
19:02<sney>babilen: hence the glxgears check... software rendering never gives over 100ish fps
19:02<joshua_>I pretty definitely had hardware accel
19:03<babilen>sney: glxinfo would provide this information too, if joshua_ could paste the complete "glxinfo" output I am sure we find something ...
19:03<babilen>Sorry, pretty late to the discussion, but just noticed the common "glxinfo|grep direct" test which is prone to false positives :)
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19:04<joshua_>so would it be best to paste the output of glxinfo?
19:05<babilen>yes, you also need AIGLX but I never cared about compiz to be of actual help in getting it to work.
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19:06<joshua_>ok, but it's a lot of output
19:06<joshua_> GL_3DFX_texture_compression_FXT1, GL_APPLE_packed_pixels,
19:06<joshua_> GL_APPLE_vertex_array_object, GL_ATI_blend_equation_separate,
19:06<joshua_> GL_ATI_envmap_bumpmap, GL_ATI_texture_env_combine3,
19:06<joshua_> GL_ATI_texture_mirror_once, GL_ATI_fragment_shader,
19:06-!-joshua_ was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use http://paste.debian.net or /msg dpkg paste]
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19:07<babilen>heh :)
19:08-!-joshua_ [~joshua@212-123-148-29.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #debian
19:08<dvs>joshua_: too much output
19:08<dvs>;-)
19:08<joshua_>yeah sorry
19:08<retrospectacus>!paste
19:08<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: http://paste.debian.net/ http://pastie.org/ http://pastebin.com/ http://pastebin.ca/ or http://picpaste.com/ for pics. Use wikisend.com for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <paste2pastebin.pl>, <wgetpaste>.
19:08<joshua_>sort of wasn't aware of the whole http://pasten.debian.net thing
19:09<joshua_>anyway
19:09<babilen>sure, no problem :)
19:09<joshua_>so I'll paste it:
19:10<joshua_>http://paste.debian.net/115816/
19:10<babilen>joshua_: See, line 251
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19:11<joshua_>OpenGL renderer string: Software Rasterizer
19:11<yangzhiwei>join #debian-women
19:11<babilen>exactly :)
19:11-!-Amorphous [jan@g228166019.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:11<joshua_>that would suggest I am indeed running software rastering
19:12<babilen>Indeed -- something is wrong with your setup.
19:12<joshua_>that does indeed create create more questions than it answers
19:12<joshua_>how am I running glxgears at 700 fps?
19:12-!-weedeater64 [~jeff@ip70-161-169-127.hr.hr.cox.net] has left #debian []
19:12<babilen>*shrug* -- Arrived pretty late here, so I am not sure what you all have been up to until now
19:13<joshua_>in short, this is what sney has gone over with me
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19:13<joshua_>1. installed firmware-linux-nonfree
19:13<joshua_>2. restarted X
19:14<joshua_>tried running Compiz, error message as said
19:14<babilen>this is an ati card isn't it?
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19:14<joshua_>it is indeed, Radeon HD4650 to be precise
19:15<babilen>\o/ -- libgl1-mesa-dri installed?
19:15<joshua_>let me check
19:15<babilen>no, I won't ;)
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19:16<joshua_>it is
19:16<babilen>damn
19:16<joshua_>libgl1-mesa-dri is installed
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19:17<babilen>joshua_: Ok, would need to take a look at your /var/log/Xorg.0.log -- easiest way to paste it is probably "aptitude install pastebinit ; pastebinit -b http://paste.debian.net /var/log/Xorg.0.log" -- I'll go to bed soon, but will take a short look.
19:17<joshua_>ok, give me minute
19:18<babilen>joshua_: Also: How do you configure Xorg? Throw any xorg.conf in a pastebin too
19:19<joshua_>http://paste.debian.net/115818/
19:19<joshua_>there is no xorg.conf
19:19<joshua_>I've run into that on many an occasion
19:19<gpm>hi. i'm trying to configure gdm3 to automatically log me in. normally i'd use the gdmsetup gui, but due to some policykit bug i can't so i'm editing /etc/gdm3/daemon.conf but it's not working. is there another file i need to edit or command i need to run? or maybe an option i missed in daemon.conf (i changed the values for AutomaticLoginEnable and AutomaticLogin)?
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19:22<joshua_>@gpm: sorry, can't help you there mate
19:22<joshua_>@babilen: and, got anything?
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19:22<theowns>oi
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19:22<gpm>joshua_: it's ok, you're not my only hope obi wan
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19:23<sney>gpm: does it need to be gdm? nodm could send you straight into gnome without any login
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19:23<gpm>sney: it doesn't need to, i just kinda wanna figure it out. i don't need autologin at all
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19:25<babilen>joshua_: One second -- No idea why "812 (WW) RADEON(0): Direct rendering disabled" happens.
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19:26<joshua_>is there any way of enabling it?
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19:29<nyov>babilen: this prior: RADEON(0): GPU accel disabled or not working, using shadowfb for KMS
19:29<babilen>joshua_: I have a R500 card and our results are therefore not directly comparable.
19:29<nyov>gets me here: http://forum.mandriva.com/en/viewtopic.php?t=126606
19:29<babilen>nyov: Yeah, I've seen that and am trying to find more information.
19:29<nyov>k, firmware should be there with that package
19:29<LetoPoole_>(related) do you need to reboot to actually load the firmware (or rmmod modprobe)?
19:29<nyov>but maybe not?
19:29<LetoPoole_>i think joshua restarted X
19:30<LetoPoole_>and thats it
19:30<babilen>You *might* need a newer version of xserver-xorg-video-radeon or of the mesa drivers. My google-fu fails me to come up with a nice feature matrix for driver versions/chipsets
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19:31<babilen>Yeah, removing the module and reinserting it is certainly a good idea.
19:31<nyov>warning, this might get you black screen
19:31<nyov>says in that article
19:31-!-gpm [~gpm@c-98-210-220-165.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving]
19:31<LetoPoole_>hence the reboot
19:31<nyov>right
19:31<LetoPoole_>i got to the same artivle
19:31<LetoPoole_>article
19:31<LetoPoole_>:)
19:31<babilen>joshua_: Switch to a console (ctrl-alt-f1) and run "service gdm3 stop ; modprobe -r radeon ; modprobe radeon ; service gdm3 start"
19:32<babilen>Or jsut reboot :)
19:32<sney>babilen: the Xorg.0.log shows his card as being recognized, at least
19:32<joshua_>what will rebooting do?
19:32<LetoPoole_>reload the module and maybe the firmware
19:32<LetoPoole_>somtimes you have to reload the module
19:32<babilen>sney: yeah, all looks fine except for the direct rendering issues
19:32<LetoPoole_>to pick that
19:33<LetoPoole_>or always(?)
19:33<joshua_>sney_: we just found out before that software rasterizing was turned on
19:33<babilen>LetoPoole_: The firmware is requested when the module is inserted.
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19:33<LetoPoole_>cheeros
19:33<nyov>LetoPoole_: but this bug actually states that it does not work on reboot for the reported system
19:33<nyov>s/bug/article/
19:34<joshua_>so rebooting: is it or is it not a clever thing to do right now?
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19:34<sney>it'll either work or it'll do nothing
19:34<sney>it can't hurt
19:34<joshua_>and what about "service gdm3 stop ; modprobe -r radeon ; modprobe radeon ; service gdm3 start"
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19:34<nyov>joshua_: run that cmd babilen gave you
19:35-!-frewo64 [~frewo64@p5DF569AB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian
19:35<joshua_>so I will
19:35<joshua_>brb
19:35-!-tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.32.63.28] has joined #debian
19:36<LetoPoole_>argh
19:36<LetoPoole_>worth the shot
19:36<LetoPoole_>:)
19:36-!-joshua_ [~joshua@212-123-148-29.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:36<LetoPoole_>or like babilen said
19:36-!-munga [~abate@mar92-3-89-83-47-134.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #debian
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19:37<nyov>oops that didn't work I guess
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19:37<babilen>It is just that I dislike unnecessary reboots ... Argh, can someone find the exact version in which 3D rendering was supported for R600 ati cards?
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19:38<dvs>version of what?
19:38<babilen>xorg radeon driver
19:38<babilen>http://www.x.org/wiki/radeon
19:39<babilen>joshua_: hmm?
19:39-!-tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.32.63.28] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:39<joshua_>I'm getting to it, hold on
19:39<dvs>I'm using squeeze and direct rendering works for me (HD 4200)
19:39<babilen>wonderful
19:40-!-joshua_ [~joshua@212-123-148-29.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:40<dvs>but I have a 2.6.38 kernel because of my ACPI problems
19:40-!-q66 [~quaker66@213.191.105.214] has quit [Quit: Leaving..]
19:41<babilen>and joshua_ has a R700 card [Radeon HD 4650] ... :-\
19:41-!-joshua_ [~joshua@212-123-148-29.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #debian
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19:41<joshua_>I did the commands
19:41-!-david [~david@dslb-094-222-239-253.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #debian
19:42<joshua_>I got a message from 'modprobe -r radeon'
19:42-!-david is now known as Guest3967
19:42<joshua_>'FATA: module radeon is in use'
19:42<joshua_>*FATAL
19:42<babilen>ffs, just reboot :)
19:42-!-Guest3967 [~david@dslb-094-222-239-253.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit []
19:42<joshua_>ok, rebooting. brb
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19:44<nyov>could it be possible that he just needs an xorg.conf with that Section "DRI" ?
19:44-!-joshua_ [~joshua@212-123-148-29.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #debian
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19:44<joshua_>rebooted
19:44<joshua_>so what do I do?
19:45<sney>check Xorg.0.log again, I suppose
19:45-!-movl [~movl@89.47.83.116] has quit [Quit: *]
19:45<nyov>grep '[drm] Loading' /var/log/syslog
19:46<nyov>maybe see if that firmware loaded
19:46-!-ml| [~ml@c-98-254-99-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit []
19:46<babilen>joshua_: "glxinfo|grep -i opengl renderer" ?
19:47<joshua_>http://paste.debian.net/115819/
19:47<babilen>joshua_: glxinfo|grep -ie "opengl renderer" ?
19:47-!-alkmim [~alkmim@201.82.139.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:47<joshua_>that paste is my Xorg.0.log
19:47<joshua_>run both of those?
19:47<babilen>looks fine :)
19:47<babilen>no, just the last one
19:47<joshua_>ok
19:48<sney>(II) RADEON(0): Acceleration enabled
19:48<sney>hooray!
19:48<joshua_>looks promising
19:48<LetoPoole_>there is no shadow thing in xorg
19:48<LetoPoole_>anyumore
19:48<joshua_>OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI R600 (RV730 9498) 20090101 TCL DRI2
19:48<babilen>marvellous, try compiz
19:48<joshua_>just terminal $ Compiz?
19:49<LetoPoole_>compiz --replace
19:49<joshua_>okay
19:49<joshua_>here goes nothing
19:49-!-jhutchins_lt [~jonathan@64-151-37-66.dyn.everestkc.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
19:49<dvs>boom!
19:49<joshua_>YOU GUYTS FUCKING PWN
19:50<joshua_>*guys :P
19:50<nyov>haha congratz
19:50<sney>!congratulate joshua_
19:50<dpkg>Huzzah joshua_, you did it!
19:50<joshua_>but before I go to bed
19:50-!-otzi [~r333t@189.107.151.115] has joined #debian
19:50<LetoPoole_>\o/
19:50<joshua_>could you I just ask you guys
19:50<joshua_>what was the problem
19:50<joshua_>and what was the fix, essentially?
19:50<dvs>what'd we change?
19:50<babilen>joshua_: The firmware wasn't loaded (although installed)
19:50<joshua_>The firmware was not loaded
19:50<joshua_>okay
19:50<nyov>yeah wtf. did you just install it?
19:51<babilen>joshua_: Rebooting your computer (and thereby reloading the module) changed that
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19:51<joshua_>so ...
19:51<joshua_>by doing modprobe -r radeon
19:51<joshua_>it got loaded?
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19:52<dvs>I think you really had to reboot to get the firmware loaded
19:52<joshua_>well, you see
19:52<nyov>from that mandrivea thread, no guarantee: "all you need is to edit and add radeon to/etc/modprobe.preload" i don't even have such file
19:52-!-maus__ [~maus@95.106.73.163] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:53<babilen>joshua_: One can't remove that module because it is in use
19:53<sney>nyov: mandriva is very different from debian :P
19:53-!-ml| [~ml@c-98-254-99-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #debian
19:53<babilen>nyov: forget that thread :)
19:53<nyov>done :P
19:53<joshua_>so wait
19:53*babilen waits
19:53-!-maus__ [~maus@95.106.73.163] has joined #debian
19:53<joshua_>the file /etc/modprobe.preload needed a bit of tweeking
19:53<babilen>joshua_: no
19:53-!-ml| [~ml@c-98-254-99-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit []
19:53<joshua_>I'm not getting this
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19:54<babilen>joshua_: What is it you don't understand? Forget about /etc/modprobe.preload (it's a mandriva thing and not applicable to Debian)
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19:54<joshua_>okay
19:54<joshua_>well
19:54<nyov>but why did that driver load now and not the last time he booted
19:54<joshua_>yeah
19:55<joshua_>it can't be JUST rebooting that did it, right?
19:55<LetoPoole_>wasnt it cause he only restarted X?
19:55<LetoPoole_>yes it can be joshua_
19:55-!-kyle_ [~kyle@97-84-130-106.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com] has joined #debian
19:55<joshua_>weird
19:55<LetoPoole_>:)
19:55<LetoPoole_>for the firmware thingy
19:55-!-kyle_ [~kyle@97-84-130-106.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:55<joshua_>of rebooted a lot in the past
19:55<joshua_>and rebooted X
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19:55<babilen>It loaded, but the *kernel module* was loaded when the firmware was not installed. It therefore had to be *reloaded* to load the firmware too. Rebooting the machine did this.
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19:55<joshua_>weird
19:55<joshua_>rebooting never worked before :S
19:56<babilen>joshua_: You installed the firmware *and* rebooted, didn't you?
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19:56<nyov>ah so the firmware was missing before. missed that part of the chat
19:56<joshua_>well, it was there
19:56<babilen>where?
19:56<joshua_>not installed, from what I gather
19:56<joshua_>uhmm
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19:56<babilen>I don't know what you did, I was under the impression that you installed "firmware-linux-nonfree"
19:57<joshua_>I think I installed it when sney told me to install some non-free linux drivers
19:57<joshua_>yeah
19:57<sney>firmware-linux-nonfree yes
19:57<babilen>SNEY!!!
19:57<sney>whaat
19:57<nyov>ok go party with compiz, come back if it stops working :P
19:57<babilen>Good job :)
19:57<sney>ty
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19:58<joshua_>I will definitely have fun with compiz
19:58<babilen>No, please don't come back with compiz problems ;-þ
19:58<joshua_>I will remember this fix
19:58<nyov>lol
19:58-!-devil [~devil@dslb-088-072-192-041.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #debian
19:58<joshua_>if ever I got compiz problems I will go to #compiz :P
19:58<joshua_>*get
19:58<joshua_>but thanks a million you guys
19:58<babilen>joshua_: Oh, you know the drill already? Wonderful! May you have fun now, have a great night in the Netherlands and enjoy compiz.
19:59<joshua_>well, I'm not sure I know the 'drill' but from what I can tell it's a matter of installing the right firmware and rebooting
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20:00<babilen>the #compiz drill (but don't take me serious, I am just happy whenever I don't have to deal with compiz)
20:01-!-mode/#debian [+l 471] by debhelper
20:01<joshua_>very well
20:01<joshua_>you may all consider yourselves heroes
20:01<joshua_>I will be off
20:01<joshua_>thanks again!
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20:12<vook>what should I used for an "Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5410 @ 2.33GHz" ? i386 or amd64 ?
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20:15<babilen>EPATIENCE
20:15<nyov>lol
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20:16<nyov>that was fast, why did I bother opening google
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20:20<nyov>in a shellscript, how do I encapsulate that echo & exit?: [ -n "$1" ] || echo "needs arg"; exit 1
20:22<nyov>sorry my ABS guide fails me
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20:44<_pg_>can someone help me to get an xbox 360 controller wired working? When i plug it in, the cursor goes berserk, and when i unplug it the issue is fixed; i think it is because there needs to be a dead zone set up- i have tried a ton of different packages and cant get anywhere. im on crunchbang based on squeeze.
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20:58<bones_was_here>someone asked about dead zones for 360 controllers the other day, i didnt see anyone post a solution though...
20:58<_pg_>bones_was_here, i think that was me.
20:59<_pg_>:D
20:59<bones_was_here>does it default to working as a mouse in X or did you have to configure it to do that?
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21:00<_pg_>bones_was_here, i think be default, but i have added and removed a bunch of packages so im not totally sure
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21:21<oden>anyone know if there is either a Vbox or backtrack channel
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21:22<nyov>backtrack was mentioned some time ago, let me check the log
21:22<sney>!backtrack
21:22<dpkg>BackTrack is not Debian and is not supported in #debian (ask me about <based on debian>). Try http://www.backtrack-linux.org/ or #backtrack-linux on irc.freenode.net instead. BackTrack is a Linux distribution based on <Ubuntu> Intrepid (as of BackTrack 4), previously <SLAX>. Derived from merging two penetration-testing distributions: WHAX (formerly WHOPPIX) and Auditor Security Linux.
21:23<nyov>#backtrack-linux on irc.freenode.net
21:23<oden>yeah I just there but nothing going on there
21:23<nyov>see, i need an index of those factoids :p
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21:27<nyov>there is #backtrack on EFNet
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21:29<nyov>http://irc.netsplit.de/channels/?chat=backtrack
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22:44<george_>does anyone here use ncmpcpp and can tell me why making a shorcut doesn't launch it?
22:46<aussa>hi, I installed a program with wine, and when I try to execute it a get a lot of: import_dll Library MSVCR90.dll (which is needed by L"C:\\Program Files\\Smith Micro\\Poser Pro 2010\\PoserPro.exe") not found, what could be the problem?
22:47<george_>aussa: you need to manually copy MSVCR90.dll into the System32 folder
22:47<george_>that should do it
22:48<aussa>there's a lot .dll's not found
22:48<george_>u need to get every single one that's missing :/
22:48<sney>I think there is a winetricks thing to install ms visual c++ runtimes, which is what that is
22:48<george_>you can find them online, if you just do a search for them
22:48<george_>hey sney
22:48<sney>hey george. I don't know about your ncmpcpp thing, sorry
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22:49<sney>aussa: get winetricks.sh, it can install that runtime for you
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22:50<aussa>sney: do I have to uninstall the program before getting winetricks?
22:50<sney>no
22:50<george_>sney: that's alright, it's weird, every program works and this, which runs through a terminal, doesn't work when i use the openbox shortcut
22:51<k-man>what is the prefered graphical package manager to use?
22:51<sney>I think synaptic is the only one, but most power users use command line package managers like aptitude
22:52<k-man>sney, I use cli too - but its for a system I'm putting together for a novice
22:52<sney>synaptic it is, then. it works well enough.
22:52<k-man>thats why I'm not in touch with the graphical options and I don't use any :)
22:52<sney>it's part of the default gnome install.
22:52<k-man>thanks sney
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22:52<k-man>is there a lancher installed by default? (like keynote or spotlight)
22:53<k-man>err... not keynote, I mean launchy
22:53<sney>don't know
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22:53<sney>well, aside from the ubiquitous 'run'
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22:57<k-man>ah synaptic is much nicer than the softare manager or something I found before
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22:57<k-man>thanks for the pointer sney
22:57<sney>np
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23:05<aussa>is there an option to hide the terminal window while running a program started from it, e.g. running xchat from terminal
23:05<sney>no, but you can roll it up or put it on a different desktop
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23:11<aussa>sney: I'm getting an error installing c++ runtimes from winetricks "unable to find a volume for file extraction. Please verify you have proper permissions" but this only happens with vc2008, wich is the one I think I need, I installed vc2005 with no problems.. :S
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23:35<TheVilleDuece>Hello, should I jump into a different channel if I have a question to ask?
23:35<TheVilleDuece>...even though I just started with a question anyway.
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23:37<sney>TheVilleDuece: if you have a debian support question, here is the place
23:38<TheVilleDuece>Cool, I am half way through a Debian installation and I'm not sure what direction to go in at the partitioning section
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23:39<TheVilleDuece>The guided partitioner wants me to select the entire drive instead of a single partion out of it. In the manual partitioner I can't seem to specify the partition as the installation drive or the root....The drive was already partitioned before I began the Debian installation
23:39<TheVilleDuece>3 partitions, first is win7, second is winxp, third is empty and i intended to put debian into it
23:41<TheVilleDuece>I originally wanted to start with GRUB before installing any of the OS's but I was told to install the 2 versions of windows first and to finish with debian last....and this is where i am at right now.
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23:44<TheVilleDuece>Walking over to the debian install for 5seconds if I don't respond immediately
23:45<dspace>Try the manual option
23:45<dspace>You should be able to select the last (unused) partition
23:46<dspace>Delete it, then add the partitions you want ( / and swap, at a minimum)
23:46<TheVilleDuece>ok, ill give that a try right now
23:48<TheVilleDuece>"Separate /home partition"?
23:48<dspace>It's up to you. I do that. Pretty nice to have my settings immediately available if I do a clean reinstall
23:49<TheVilleDuece>ok, will that option also create a seperate swap partition?
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23:49<TheVilleDuece>or is that a separate step
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23:49<dspace>Are you doing the manual partitioning?
23:49<TheVilleDuece>yes
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23:49<TheVilleDuece>i deleted it, selected...ummm 1 second
23:50<dspace>And it's asking you if you want a separate /home ?
23:50<dspace>If you deleted the last partition, you should have some free space
23:50<TheVilleDuece>I'm in the manual partitioner, after deleting it I select the free space...from there I selected automatically partition free space
23:50<dspace>So click that and add a partition (leaving some space at the end for swap)
23:50<TheVilleDuece>i assumed i was still within the manual
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23:51<TheVilleDuece>k
23:51<dspace>How much space is it?
23:51<TheVilleDuece>17gb
23:51<dspace>I don't know if I would bother with a separate /home then
23:51<dspace>How much RAM do you have?
23:51<TheVilleDuece>1.5gb
23:52<dspace>I would create a partition and make it 15.5 GB for / , the rest for swap. But that's just me :)
23:53<TheVilleDuece>Yah, I was thinking 1.5-2gb 'ish.
23:53<TheVilleDuece>Thank you very much for your help
23:53<dspace>ok :)
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23:54<dspace>You know, I can pair Debian down to about 85 MB of RAM at login. It doesn't use much :)
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23:57<TheVilleDuece>is the ext3 file system readable in a windows environment?
23:57-!-maus_ [~maus@95.106.73.163] has joined #debian
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23:57<TheVilleDuece>would it matter if I formatted it as fat32?
23:59<TheVilleDuece>AND, hopefully the last question - Should I set the bootable flag to on? I was hoping to enable GRUB in debian to handle boot managing the 3 OS's
---Logclosed Tue May 03 00:00:53 2011