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#debian IRC Logs for 2011-05-29

---Logopened Sun May 29 00:00:14 2011
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00:06<neto>alguem pode me ajudar aki de como usar o linux
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00:09<digger_1967>Greetings, have a couple of issues I was hoping to get some help with. The first is with gnome-keyring
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00:10<digger_1967>Is it possible to disable gnome-keyring so that it doesn't require a password when connecting to the system via VNC?
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00:17<digger_1967>Ok, well my second issue that I need help with is screen resolution. I need to find a way to increase the screen resolution in the system to something like 1320x768, however the system itself does not have a monitor attached
00:18<digger_1967>I tried adding the resolution via xrandr but it will not switch to that resolution, or go any higher than 800x600
00:19<digger_1967>Any help with either issue would be greatly appreciated
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00:22<digger_1967>Or maybe someone could just say hi so I didn't think I was in here talking to myself.. lol
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00:31<chealer>digger_1967: what do you mean, no monitor attached? does it have a screen?
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00:32<digger_1967>No, it has no monitor plugged into it - the system is accessed via VNC
00:34<digger_1967>I have a small 15" monitor I can plug it into if need be, but I'd really rather avoid having to take the big monitor downstairs to get it to acknowledge a higher resolution
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00:35<nmcbride>i was under the impression that you should be able to run a 32bit binary on a 64bit debian install if you have all the 32bit libraries
00:35<nmcbride>but when I try to run the 32bit app it just says file not found
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00:37<digger_1967>are you running the file by typing the name of the file in a terminal nmcbride, and is that where your getting the "file not found" error, or is there more to that error message such as a library name it can't find?
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00:38<nmcbride>digger_1967: it is when I try to run it from the command line './tvmobili'
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00:40<digger_1967>ok, so you type that into the terminal and it tells you file not found? What's the extension on tvmobili?
00:41<digger_1967>Also are you sure it's being spelled correctly? Linux is very picky about this.. it's also very picky about capital and lower case
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00:42<nmcbride>there isn't any it is just a binary
00:42<nmcbride>i tab completed it
00:42<digger_1967>binary as in .bin?
00:43<nmcbride>no binary as in a compiled ELF for the 32bit architecture
00:43<nmcbride>like /bin/bash
00:43<nmcbride>no extension
00:44<digger_1967>ok, well normally it's not going to give you a file not found error if the filename is correct, if it won't execute it will normally give you a different error
00:44<nmcbride>actually seems to be a common problem trying to run 32bit apps on a 64bit machine
00:44<nmcbride>but none of the ubuntu packages seem to be in debian
00:45<digger_1967>you can try chmod +x filename
00:45<digger_1967>Well in theory you should be able to run a 32 binary on a 64 bit machine, provided the libs it needs are available
00:46<nmcbride>it's already executable
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00:46<digger_1967>Never tried it myself but it is supposed to work
00:46<digger_1967>At least from the reading I've done
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00:51<digger_1967>Well, sorry I couldn't be of more help there nmcbride
00:51<digger_1967>Only other thing I could suggest would be to maybe try compiling yourself from source
00:51<digger_1967>Sadly I came here myself looking for assistance, found none
00:52<nmcbride>i'm just going to do the 32bit chroot i guess
00:52<nmcbride>what is it you need help with?
00:52<digger_1967>Have a system that I remote into with VNC - so it doesn't have a monitor attached to it.
00:53<digger_1967>Unfortunately I have two issues, first, for whatever reason, gnome-keyring seems to think it needs a password from the local keyboard the first time the system is VNC'd into
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00:54<digger_1967>Works fine after that till it reboots, but if the system is rebooted, I have to go to the actual location of the system and type a password in for the keyring, and can't for the life of me find anyway to keep it from doing this
00:54<digger_1967>Other problem I have is that I cannot get it to accept any resolution higher than 800x600, even using xrandr
00:55<digger_1967>Unless I plug in a monitor that can handle a higher resolution, but of course it only "holds" that until reboot, and again I'm back at square one
00:55<nmcbride>normally when you need to unlock the keyring it pops up and asks for the password in a gui which you should see in your vnc
00:55<nmcbride>it isn't showing it to you?
00:55<nmcbride>or you can't just type in it?
00:55<digger_1967>No, it does not give me the ability to type in the keyring password from VNC
00:55<digger_1967>VNC will not connect until I go downstairs and type in the password on the local machine
00:55<digger_1967>Which is a real pain.. lol
00:56<nmcbride>well i will tell you from a security perspective and my personal experiences every vnc i've tried on linux sucks really bad
00:56<digger_1967>Sad thing is this is a new install, nothing at all has been added yet. Bad design
00:56<nmcbride>I would recomend no machine
00:57<digger_1967>Well it's only for use on a local network so security is not an issue
00:57<nmcbride>unless one of your boxes gets popped and then they hijack your vnc session to get your other
00:58<nmcbride>but regardless, no machines protocols are pretty awesome, they worked so much better for me even on my local lan
00:58<digger_1967>Nobody is going to hijack anything.. this is a local only network - no access to it from the outside at all.
00:58<digger_1967>It's a subnet that doesn't even have wireless access.. So I guess I could look at no machine but of course that doesn't solve the resolution problem
00:59<nmcbride>it may actually, their protocols are rock solid
00:59<nmcbride>however, once you are connected via vnc
00:59<nmcbride>you can either set your monitor to generic lcd of whatever resolution you want, or force it in xorg.conf and restart x
01:00<digger_1967>Setting the monitor still comes up with a max resolution of 800x600
01:00<digger_1967>And there is no xorg.conf file by default
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01:01<nmcbride>but there is a xorg.conf.d folder
01:01<nmcbride>where you can put config files to change the x server
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01:21<PickeledPickle>hello while trying to do an apt-get install of a package I getting an error saying that a non related package isn't an installation package depends on another.
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02:29<lothar>Hi, I have a Etch (PPC) and experience to not find some packages in the last time. apt-get update returns some errors (404). How to fix/reset to uptodate repositories?
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02:31<gsimmons>dpkg: tell lothar -about etch sources.list
02:32<gsimmons>lothar: Consider updating your system to Lenny when convenient.
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02:35<chealer>lothar: are you aware that etch is no longer supported?
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02:38<lothar>Yes I plan it.
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02:39<lothar>chealer: Oops. Then I should update to the newest version.
02:40<lothar>Does upgrading a running Etch work or is a fresh install the better way?
02:43<lothar>Are there any sources about implementing an automated setup (with info on an USB stick for sampe)?
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02:45<chealer>lothar: what do you mean by an automated setup?
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02:51<lothar>Things like a detailed instruction how to setup a box without interaction, but I do support that list. It is more seen in the enterprise to deploy hundreds of machines. Another sample is using the setup to create test instances for software rollout. Imaging would be a later issue I think. I would avoid the error-prone manual setup for future installs and like to save time.
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02:52<dba>lothar: look at preseeding as described in the appendix of the debian installer manual
02:53<dba>lothar: for creating the media, you might want to use debian-live + live-installer (part of d-i)
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02:54<gsimmons>lothar: WRT upgrading, provided you follow the procedure in the release notes (/msg dpkg lenny release notes), this should be straightforward.
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02:58<lothar>Ok, thanks - I'll have to RTFM some manuals :-)
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03:01<lothar>I have another issue about vi: If I use the cursor keys up,down,etc I'll get A,B,etc. How to fix?
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03:02<Zaba>don't use cursor keys. :P
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03:02<AlexTheGreat>don't use vi :P
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03:03<lothar>I don't ask for another editor, I'll ask for a solution to the problem.
03:03<alesan>hi, last time somebody told me how to set ALL USERS the buttons back to the right
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03:04<alesan>where they belong
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03:04<alesan>so now I reinstalled this computer and I have the buttons maximize minimize close to the left
03:04<alesan>how can I do to set them back to the right for ALL USERS?
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03:12<shirish>hi all, does anybody know of a manpage where the Debian contents files and how/what they should be like is explained.
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03:12<shirish>by debian contents files I mean something like
03:13<shirish>also does anybody know where are they put in when running apt/apt-get or/and aptitude ?
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03:17<nevyn>the list files?
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03:19<shirish>nevyn: thank you. btw do you know of any manpage or any documentation anywhere which tells about the InRelease files and how they are made up.
03:20<nevyn>it might be in the reference guide tho.
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03:26<lothar>Ok, I have looked at the config files for vi and found a compatible / noncompatible mode. Set to compatible didn't helped. I think it is the terminal mode (vt100/...) that is not set to one that enables simple corsor keys in vi. Is it TERM I have to change? On my Mac OS X I have TERM=xterm-color and on Debian I have xterm. Not a big difference. May it be my keyboard (a macally)?
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03:46<shirish>does anybody of a good way to find number of packages in a running system.
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03:48<nevyn>dpkg -l|wc -l ?
03:48<dpkg>nevyn: wish i knew
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03:55<shirish>nevyn: thank you, never occured to me about using wc, nice
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03:55<ompaul>!ops crystalblue66 spamming
03:55<dpkg>Hydroxide, bob2, caphuso, dondelelcaro, doogie, eeyore-, ElectricElf, ):, helix, ljlane, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, Netsnipe, TML, walters, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Alife, Myon, Ganneff, Maulkin, weasel, zobel, themill: ompaul complains about: crystalblue66 spamming
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03:56<shirish>nevyn: are there any sorts of stats or something that one can find about a typical debian system, as in how many packages are there when one installs a debian desktop machine.
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04:07<urbanfbi>how do I install skype on debian squeeze "deb stable non-free" which is used on seems not to exist any longer. can anyone help me with this?
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04:09<urbanfbi>ok my fault ... I should read the section about amd64. sorry
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04:14<nevyn>shedammit: thousands?
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04:14<nevyn>bleh nevemind
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04:21<urbanfbi>which package do I need to get all the video codecs into vlc?
04:21<patrick>hmm can someone help me :D
04:22<urbanfbi>Hi patrick, I'm new to debian, so I'm not sure. I'll give my best :-)
04:22<patrick>i would wanna know where/who linux is keeping track when my mouse moves. because i have lxde and i wanna make suspend script if mouse hasn't move 30min
04:22<patrick>who= how
04:22<patrick>my english :D lol
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04:23<urbanfbi>patrick: /dev/input/mice <--- something like that?
04:24<patrick>thanks that was all what i need i think :)
04:24<patrick>im making just small bash shell script
04:26<smb>urbanfbi: The vlc dependencies list libavcodec, which support decoding just about anything
04:27<smb>if you're trying to play dvds you'll probably need libdvdcss, which i imagine is in non-free
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04:29<smb>Oh, I take it back, it's not in non-free - looks like you need a 3rd-party package for that
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04:34<urbanfbi>what is the name of the apt-get update gui tool in debian?
04:35<dba>you probably mean synaptic
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04:37<nevyn>smb: it's in debian-multimedia
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04:37<nevyn>but it's not in debian itself
04:37<dpkg>[dmm] Debian Multimedia is a repository of unofficial packages maintained by Christian Marillat, not in Debian for patent-related reasons. For information on how to access, see or ask me about <dmm squeeze> <dmm lenny>. During 2010, this repository grew a non-free part, with all binary-only packages moved there; you may need to add " non-free" to your sources lines. See also <dmm mirrors>, <dmm list>.
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04:45<ballison-home>i'm having a production outage. something went wrong with a harddrive and the OS flipped to READ ONLY for / . Which means I can no longer /sbin/reboot now. how do you reboot a host AFTER / has been remounted READ ONLY ?
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04:55<nyov>ballison-home: echo b > /proc/sysrq-trigger
04:56<nyov>will not do any cleanup though, just reboots
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04:59<ballison-home>nyov: thank you. that appears to have taken it offline (rebooting i'm assuming).
04:59<ballison-home>nyov: is there a way to make it fsck on reboot BEFORE i do that?
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05:00<nyov>touch /forcefsck
05:00<nyov>then reboot
05:03<ballison-home>nyov: you rock! Thanks so much!
05:05<nyov>hope it helps, always nasty to have production boxes fail on a sunday
05:06<ballison-home>but how can i touch /forcefsck if the file system has flipped to "read-only" due to errors?
05:06<nyov>now there's a problem
05:07<nyov>well you can fsck it when readonly
05:08<ballison-home>well i'm using your trick to reboot it (that worked), and then touch /forcefsck, and then reboot again.
05:08<ballison-home>the main problem was when it gets in that state of "read-only" due to errors, command like "init 6" and "reboot" stop working.
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05:11<ballison-home>i hate that they've added this new "feature" to the kernel that prevents you from being able to reboot
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05:11<nyov>what feature is that?
05:12<lindi-_>ballison-home: running a management sshd from initramfs might be useful in your scenario
05:12<kenyon>seems like you could partition differently to possibly avoid the issue. where does it need to write during shutdown, maybe /var?
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05:14<nyov>reboot -d -f -i should force a reboot. but untested
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05:14<nyov>actually it's what the initscript does
05:14<ballison-home>lindi: how would that help?
05:14<lindi-_>ballison-home: it would run from tmpfs, unaffected by hard disks
05:15<nyov>ballison-home: yeah a custom initramfs powerbuild is really nice
05:16<lindi-_>maybe we should package something like that for easy installation
05:17<kenyon>indeed, there are writes to /var during normal shutdowns.
05:18<nyov>lindi-_: would be awesome, a nice rescue-package.
05:19<lindi-_>nyov: I'm currently using but it does not offer SSH. it just gives access to the contents of the virtual console using (rvcd daemon)
05:20<lindi-_>nyov: so that I can remotely watch the fsck :P
05:21<nyov>lindi-_: that's pretty slim :)
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05:37<nyov>anyone heard of "Ksplice Uptrack" and updating kernel without reboots ? i wonder if this is available as a free solution, too. with loading kernels into different memory regions maybe?
05:38<lindi-_>nyov: I've sent some patches there and got it to work with limited success
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05:39<nyov>lindi-_: how does it work?
05:39<lindi-_>nyov: it builds the source code with and without the patch
05:40<lindi-_>nyov: and compares the resulting object code
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05:40<lindi-_>nyov: it then analyzes if the modifications were something that can be patched on the fly at least in theory and generates a kernel module that does the patching
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05:41<nyov>lindi-_: wow, sounds complicated. loading the patch as a kernel module?
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05:44<lindi-_>nyov: well the kernel module contains new versions of modified functions and information on what parts of the kernel call the old version
05:44<lindi-_>nyov: it then replaces the calls to point to the new versions of the functions
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05:45<lindi-_>nyov: some random notes are at
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05:46<nyov>a self-upgrading kernel. sounds awesome like that. I rather thought it would work like loading a second kernel and 'switching over' somehow
05:46<lindi-_>nyov: switching over is of course possible but it kills all your processes :)
05:47<lindi-_>nyov: it's called kexec
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05:47<lindi-_>nyov: very fast way to reboot since it does not go via BIOS
05:47<nyov>right, that was that :/
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05:48<tehKitten>I got an old notebook, can't boot from usb and the cd drive is broken. I don't have anything else to put the hdd into for an install, so the last option is a network install. Is there an easy way to do that? ^.^"
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05:49<lindi-_>tehKitten: it can boot from network then?
05:50<tehKitten>Network boot is in the boot list at the buos
05:50<lindi-_>tehKitten: ok, if you have some other debian machine in the network then that should be fairly easy
05:51<tehKitten>I currently got a debian home server running on a static dhcp ip
05:52<nyov>tehKitten: then you got the first requirement down, the dhcp server :)
05:52<lindi-_>tehKitten: I think you just need a dhcp server that informs the laptop about network booting and a tftp server that shares the pxelinux binary and configuration file for it
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05:53<tehKitten>nyov: My routers hands the ip's out now
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05:54<tehKitten>It looks so hard ._.
05:55<nyov>tehKitten: you need a dhcp server to tell that PXE bootloader in your notebook, where to find the tftp server with the pxe image ;/
05:55<lindi-_>nyov: would be kind of handy if debian livecd had a menu entry that starts both of those?
05:55<nyov>the setup might require a bit fiddling around, or alot
05:56<nyov>lindi-_: indeed, haha
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05:56<nyov>lindi-_: but you would need to be able to configure a subnet range I guess
05:57<thewanderer1>2 DHCP servers don't play nice together... better disable the router's built-in if you're going to deploy your own
05:57<nyov>yeah, they will mess each other up
05:57<lindi-_>nyov: not even that I think? you can let it talk to the real dhcp server when d-i is running
05:58<lindi-_>nyov: so the livecd would only serve the initial dhcp replies that allow it to boot
05:58<thewanderer1>handy would be configuring the router's DHCP properly, with all options
05:58<thewanderer1>(for instance, DD-WRT has a field where you input dnsmasq configuration lines)
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06:00<tehKitten>I got a new idea. I'll just set up another machine as server for netboots
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06:00<thewanderer1>yeah, but you need DHCP somewhere, still
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06:00<nyov>tehKitten: that's what we're talking about :)
06:00<thewanderer1>you can disconnect this from the LAN
06:01<nyov>lindi-_: i don't get that. chaining dhcp servers?
06:01<tehKitten>It's going to be a stand-alone rescue machine from now on
06:01<thewanderer1>I'd make a router out of it and attach to the LAN, so that it blocks DHCP but unicast traffic just passes through
06:01<thewanderer1>if the home router is dumb, you activate NAT and problem solved :P
06:01<lindi-_>nyov: no, you can just first connect the cable between the live system and the target system directly
06:02<lindi-_>nyov: when the installer has booted up you can connect the cable to the normal router
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06:03<nyov>lindi-_: oh, that's right. since the installer will fetch dhcp again later and get the new/correct setup, should work nicely if it's local
06:03<lindi-_>nyov: exactly
06:04<nyov>good thing those network cards today are all autosensing and you don't need any switches anymore %)
06:06<thewanderer1>haha, I wish :P
06:06<thewanderer1>(btw. isn't a patent held by HP on this?)
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06:06<nyov>I wouldn't know
06:07<lindi-_>nyov: how would you do the GUI for such a solution? you need root privileges to run dhcpd and tftp like that
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06:07<lindi-_>and running the GUI part as root sounds bad
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06:08<thewanderer1>nah, sudo or PolicyKit is enough
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06:08<lindi-_>tehKitten: so the GUI part would run as normal user but would exec some daemons as root with that?
06:09<thewanderer1>lindi-_: as I imagine it, yes
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06:09<thewanderer1>specifically, it could require pressing a button for authorisation, like most GNOME apps do now
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06:23<paulg_>Hi everyone, I'm trying to use multiarch to install virtualbox 64bit on a system with 64bit kernel and 32bit userland, but after having updated my configuration to use multiarch, apt and aptitude are segfaulting... do you have ideas?
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06:28<jackyf>paulg_: file a bug against 'apt'
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06:29<paulg_>oops, i wasn't using the lastest apt version, I'll try with the lastest
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06:33<paulg_>problem solved by installing the lasted apt and aptitude
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06:43<tehKitten>When I ssh into my debian server I get a couple of 'Â' characters which aren't supposed to be there
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06:46<patrick>hmm how i can start crontab? i made with crontab -e a line * * * * *
06:46<patrick>but it doesnt start?
06:46<patrick>and i added /etc/crob.allow my username
06:47<patrick>/var/log/cron.log: No such file or directory
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06:50<mjt>so it's in your syslog configuration. i think it's rsyslogd by default now (i syslogd)
06:50<mjt>and cron emails all script output or errors - if any - to you
06:51<weasel>patrick: where is
06:51<weasel>patrick: and how would cron find it?
06:51<patrick>* * * * * front of that
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06:51<patrick>because im testing it every minute
06:52<mjt>weasel: i hoped he'll find that out in the log... ;)
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06:58<patrick>/etc/rsyslog.d/50-default.conf <-- there it wasnt on :O # was front of cron.log line
06:59<patrick>u hackers :P
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07:00<patrick>ok do i have to restart linux or can i somehow just restart crontab?
07:00<patrick>i think i know what to do
07:01<patrick>/etc/init.d/rsyslogd restart :P or something :P
07:02<patrick>i did restart that rsyslog now, but nothing happens :/
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07:06<patrick>May 29 14:06:01 patrick-900 CRON[4867]: (patrick) CMD (/home/patrick/
07:07<patrick>in that script is echo text, but it doesnt come to terminal?
07:07<patrick>i will remove that echo later and but there 'shutdown -P now' but now im just debugin
07:11<mjt>where's that cron log line?
07:12<mjt>you said that file does not exist
07:12<patrick>do i have to add my <username> between the ***** and command
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07:12<patrick>it wasnt there
07:12<patrick>patrick> /etc/rsyslog.d/50-default.conf <-- there it wasnt on :O # was front of cron.log line
07:12<patrick>read from up
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07:13<mjt>and when it appeared?
07:13<patrick>i wrote that earlier
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07:13<patrick>when i restarted the rsyslog and crontab
07:13<mjt>whote what?
07:13*mjt loses patience
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07:13<patrick>just scroll up and you see my text :D
07:14<patrick>* TaitenP has quit (Quit: 3 2 1...) <-- after that line
07:14<mjt>what the f...g change you did to that file?
07:14<patrick>i took that # front of the line
07:15*mjt installs rsyslog to see what stupid default config it comes with
07:15<patrick>it was like this #cron.* /var/log/cron.log
07:17<mjt>as of your other question, "why echo does not show on terminal", just think of it: on _which_ terminal it should be shown?
07:17<mjt>you can be logged on several at that time, or not logged at all
07:17<patrick>hmm there is a point :)
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07:17<mjt>i already told you cron sends all output/errors from your cron jobs using email
07:18<mjt>so you can look at /var/log/mail.log to see where that email goes.
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07:19<patrick>so that im now debugin this i should add TTY output
07:19<mjt>what's "TTY output" ?
07:19<mjt>all output from cron jobs gets e-mailed to you
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07:20<mjt>the cronjob's tty comes to a mail program
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07:23<patrick>well i haven'
07:23<patrick>set any mailto=""
07:24<patrick>sorry im first time using cron :D
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07:27<patrick>but at my crontab tutorial is reading * * * * * echo 'hello world'
07:28<patrick>show i assume it wants to print it default terminal? or something
07:28<mjt>patrick: it's set automatically. mail.log should contain some information about what's happening with your email
07:28<mjt>it writes to email program
07:28<patrick>its empty
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07:28<patrick>cat /var/log/mail.log <-- empty
07:29<mjt>how about echo test | mail patrick
07:29<patrick>i dont have that mail installed xD
07:30<patrick>this is lxde
07:30<mjt>is /var/mail/patrkck exist ?
07:30<mjt>patrick even
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07:30<patrick>no because i dont have mail installed
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07:31<patrick>The program 'mail' can be found in the following packages:
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07:31<mjt>that's a good conclusion. mail (from package mailx) is not the only program that creates /var/mail/$username
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07:31<mjt>but ok
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07:45<tehKitten>I compiled and make installed nginx just now, but I forgot to put it in the right path with ./configure, how do I remove what I have now?
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07:47<nyov>make clean
07:47<nyov>make uninstall
07:47<nyov>if it's supported
07:47<tehKitten>That removes the files in the source dir, and there is no uninstall
07:47<nyov>that's why you should do it the debian way
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07:48<nyov>build a package? nginx is in the repos
07:48<bzed>tehKitten: apt-get install nginx?
07:49<tehKitten>Too old
07:49<bzed>tehKitten: why?
07:49<nyov>for what?
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07:49<bzed>which featuer are ou missing?:
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07:50<bzed>that says that the module is still in development
07:50<bzed>and it provides a pointer to the sources
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07:50<bzed>where you can build the module only against the verison in debian
07:50<tehKitten>On my other linux installations it just works fine with compilinh it ;)
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07:52<babilen>bzed: Which version of nginx do you need?
07:52<bzed>tehKitten: and who does the security support for them?
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07:52<babilen>,versions nginx
07:52<judd>Package nginx on i386 -- lenny: 0.6.32-3+lenny3; lenny-security: 0.6.32-3+lenny3; lenny-backports: 0.7.67-3~bpo50+1; squeeze: 0.7.67-3; sid: 1.0.1-1; wheezy: 1.0.1-1
07:52<bzed>babilen: I need none.
07:53<tehKitten>Newest stable is 1.0.3
07:53<tehKitten>And I need at least 0.8.42
07:53<babilen>heh, ENICK, sorry. tehKitten could try to backport the package from sid -- /msg dpkg ssb
07:54<tehKitten>It's working now, I just remade it into the correct dir, the one that debian likes
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07:55<babilen>If you compile and install it manually I would recommend to use stow/xstow to keep installations to /usr/local distinct -- /msg dpkg stow -- /msg dpkg stow usage. But I think that backporting the package from sid is the best way to deal with this.
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08:09<nyov>how can I setup a linux install, that doesn't utterly die on a borked harddisk?
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08:10<bzed>nyov: use a non-borked harddisk?
08:10<nyov>looks like I have a failing harddisk and the system just totally dies. because when I reboot, no logs whatsoever about the reason it died
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08:11<nyov>happened twice now
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08:11<bzed>nyov: use netconsole and a second machine to record the kernel output?
08:11<nyov>bzed: no, I want something that can sustain a harddisk failure
08:11<sk>Hi There
08:12<bzed>nyov: use a raid set then.
08:12<sk>I have a question using compiz on Debian Squeeze on my Intel Pentium 4 machine
08:12<nyov>bzed: nope
08:12<bzed>nyov: or boot from cd.
08:12<nyov>bzed: nope
08:12<ompaul>nyov: what do you want
08:12<sk>I used compiz-check all seems OK, but I get this errors when I start compiz
08:12<nyov>it's a datacenter machine,
08:13<sk>compiz (core) - Fatal: Software rendering detected.
08:13<sk>compiz (core) - Error: Failed to manage screen: 0
08:13<sk>compiz (core) - Fatal: No manageable screens found on display :0.0
08:13<ompaul>nyov: use another box in a datacentre or become the next google and buy redundant data centres
08:13<bzed>nyov: use proper hardware then and ues at least 2 disks in a raid set.
08:14<ompaul>nyov: your hardware not debian's problem afics
08:14<nyov>I want to maybe use tmpfs for the core system, just so ssh and essentials do not die
08:14<babilen>sk: Well, you need to make sure you use hardware rendering. Which graphic card/drivers do you have/use?
08:14<bzed>nyov: tmpfs will be gone after a reboot.
08:14<ompaul>nyov: you can't get there from here
08:15<sk>Intel Corporation 82845G/GL[Brookdale-G]/GE Chipset Integrated Graphics Device (rev 03)
08:15<sk>I am not using any xorg.conf file
08:15<nyov>wow, ok i'll go look elsewhere
08:15<bzed>nyov: buy some working hardware.
08:16<ompaul>nyov: your ideas fail, something to do with the physics of the situation
08:16<ompaul>nyov: if you have a second box you can use heartbeat but one machine is asking for trouble
08:17<nyov>ompaul: I think a core emergency system should be able to sustain that damage
08:17<bzed>nyov: you think wrong.
08:18<bzed>at least not if you are using that drive
08:18<ompaul>nyov: let me spell it out for you d i s k c o n t r o l l e r s and d i s k s all fail
08:18<bzed>of course you could put a system into nand or some other kind of memory and boot from there
08:18<bzed>but that will fail at some point, too
08:18<bzed>or your ram will fail
08:18<ompaul>bzed: na you must achieve the impossible with nothing, that is the requirement didn't you read the spec ;-)
08:18<babilen>sk: Could you paste your /var/log/Xorg.0.log -- I suspect "/msg dpkg intel-gfx shadow"
08:19<babilen>sk: (paste to
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08:23<sk>Hi bailen: The pastebin URL is
08:24<shadenzo>i need to backup the repository keys how do i do it ?
08:26<babilen>sk: Yup, it is "/msg dpkg intel-gfx shadow" -- Read the bug report and "man 4 intel" -- If you want to try the "Option "Shadow" "false" setting, I would recommend to create a file in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ and specify the options/configuration in there. (/msg dpkg xorg.conf.d)
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08:27<sk>Babilen: What exactly do I do ?
08:30<babilen>sk: You read the bug and "man 4 intel" to learn why hardware rendering has been disabled for your card. If you want to try to enable it (by setting the "Shadow" option to "false") you create a device specific configuration file in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ (see "man 4 intel" for details) and specify the 'Option "Shadow" "false"' in there in addition to whatever you would have normally
08:30<babilen>sk: Please also try "bab<TAB>" in your IRC client (that gives you nickname autocompletion, but works for paths as well)
08:33<SynrG>ugh, 845G. not recommended for compiz
08:35<babilen>SynrG: Yes, and the bug makes it fairly obvious that one does *not* want to disable Shadow ....
08:35<grove>shadenzo: apt-key has an "exportall" command. I've never used it, but I would suppose that was they way to go
08:35<SynrG>even xcompmgr was less than wonderful for my 865G at work, and that was using one of the versions of X from experimental that actually supported hardware rendering. the 845G is roughly the same
08:35<babilen>sk: So honestly: Just don't use compiz or get a better graphic card.
08:35<SynrG>so trying to get compiz working on 845G is largely a waste of effort
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08:37<sk>babilen, Thanks for your help, this is not my computer, I have the latest GC on mine.
08:38<sk>I just put Option "Shadow" "False" under "Device" Section of xorg.conf
08:38<shadenzo>thaks grove i make some proofs to try
08:38<sk>I will try compiz now
08:38<sk>I will get back just now
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08:39<SynrG>if it's not your computer, it's all the more reason not to saddle them with software that's likely to cause nothing but hair loss :(
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08:46<babilen>sk: hmm?
08:46<sk>babilen, I tried putting Section "Device" Option "Shadow" "False" EndSection in xorg.conf and I get parse error what exactly do I put in corg.conf
08:47<SynrG>it's case-sensitive
08:47<SynrG>read the xorg.conf man page
08:47<babilen>False != false
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08:48<SynrG>humm. that may not be the case ...
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08:48<SynrG>Off, On, No, but not False? :)
08:48<babilen>apparently so :)
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08:49<SynrG>sk: i appreciate you may be wanting to impress the owner of this system with how cool linux is to run on old hardware, but honestly, your time is more valuable than this
08:50<Zaba>compiz is cool? I find it irritatingly pointless :P
08:51<sk>SynrG, I know, He was impressed with my system, he wants it for himself
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08:51<SynrG>sk: then talk to him about a card for it.
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08:53<luckystar>ahem guys
08:53<mercutio22>I am having some trouble during the initialiation of the Xserver (or gnome I am not sure which.) The screen halts soon after login and the keyboard seems unresponsive. I can still move the pointer. I have to reboot several times for gnome to successfully load. I see some errors in var/log/Xorg.0.log relating to synaptics touchpad, thats all:
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08:54<luckystar>@ mercutio22
08:54<luckystar>hello sir
08:54<ompaul>luckystar: this is a debian software support channel - have you a debian question
08:55<dpkg>#debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
08:55<luckystar>no boss i don't have any ques
08:56<luckystar>i have some Nmap related problems
08:56<luckystar>if any of u can solve them
08:56<luckystar>then ur most wc
08:56<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
08:57<luckystar>:)) dpkg ... lolz p2p talk
08:57*adb change channel ...
08:58<luckystar>how do i find that any port is opened on my sys or not ??
08:58<luckystar>and how do i can track hacker's activity ?
08:58<luckystar>is there any "logging " system ??
08:59<luckystar>any sniffer ???
08:59<ompaul>which version of debian are you running
08:59<luckystar>i'm running 11.04 natty
08:59<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it is unlikely to live up to Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu ( instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian>.
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09:00<luckystar>no satisfactory ans :P
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09:01<mercutio22>maybe the crashing is related to network-manager not starting the UI as per that error line that says --sm-config-prefix Unknown option
09:01<ompaul>luckystar: stop trolling here - if you have questions go to your own support channel on freenode as advised thank you
09:01<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
09:02<luckystar>@ ompaul : do u have any better idea ??
09:02-!-mode/#debian [+o weasel] by ChanServ
09:02-!-mode/#debian [+q luckystar!*@*] by weasel
09:02-!-mode/#debian [-o weasel] by weasel
09:02<dpkg>[mc] Midnight Commander is a cross-platform orthodox file manager, a clone of Norton Commander. It is a text mode application, with the main interface consisting of two panels which display the file system. FAQ: .
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09:05<mercutio22>actually that line seems to be related to a little program named mail-notification.
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09:10<patrick>patrick ALL= NOPASSWD: /sbin/shutdown <-- doesnt work
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09:12<patrick>it is the last line in sudoers file
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09:13<babilen>patrick: space between "ALL" and "=" ? How do you edit sudoers?
09:13<patrick>sudo visudo
09:13<Myon>also, order matters
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09:14<patrick>now its together all=nopasswd:
09:14<patrick>still nothing
09:14<patrick>i restarted terminal
09:15<weasel>what does sudo -l say?
09:15<patrick>User patrick may run the following commands on this host:
09:16<patrick>(root) NOPASSWD: /sbin/shutdown
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09:16<weasel>is that the only output?
09:17<patrick>before that is
09:17<patrick>Matching Defaults entries for patrick on this host:
09:17<patrick> env_reset
09:17<weasel>so there are only four lines of output in total?
09:17<weasel>(why does sudo visudo work then?)
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09:17<patrick>(ALL) ALL
09:17<patrick>that is also there
09:17<weasel>so you are lying. great.
09:18<patrick>yes i am a lier :P
09:18<weasel>you can't be helped.
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09:18<patrick>well what now?
09:18<ompaul>you get called a troll I think
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09:19<weasel>now's the point where you get to figure it out on your own since you aren't capable or willing to provide accurate answers when being asked.
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09:19<patrick>its look like that
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09:20<weasel>Sun 15:13:43 <Myon> also, order matters
09:20<patrick>it is last on the line
09:20<weasel>maybe it shouldn't be?
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09:20<patrick>i thought it should be last
09:20<weasel>could be. have you *tried*?
09:21<patrick>that nothing effects it anymore
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09:21<weasel>which shutdown
09:22<patrick>i had maybe one year ago same problem. i figure it out, but now im back in same situation with this other computer.
09:22<scisteffan>hello, when I press the arrow keys in Terminal it prints the letters A, B, C, D instead of going up/down/left/right. why could this be?
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09:24<patrick>(root) NOPASSWD: /sbin/shutdown /bin/cat <-- think that should start like (ALL) NOPASSWD:
09:24<scisteffan>neither do any keyboard shortcuts work in Konqueror :-\
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09:25<scisteffan>oh found it - it's a numlock issue
09:26<patrick>wait i think i got it :O
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09:29<patrick>i dont know what i did but now it works :D when i open new terminal, sudo shutdown -c doesnt ask passwd
09:29<patrick>next question
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10:22<edbian>Is there a password generator for Debian besides the one built into the graphical 'users and groups' ?
10:23<edbian>Ganneff: Thank you. Is that the package name?
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10:25<edbian>found it
10:25<edbian>Thanks again
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10:31<lord_rob>Is #debian-next for support or for developers ?
10:31<daemonkeeper>No, for Sid/Testing users
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10:31<lord_rob>like I am ok
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10:38<djayb6>hi all
10:38<djayb6>i've bought a VPS with Debian Squeeze installed, I must configure it from scratch to use it as a webserver (apache + php + mysql), ftp, mail, but I dont find a complete guide. I found some but each one is different from the other, and its really confusing for a rookie like me
10:39<djayb6>if you would have some links
10:39<djayb6>that would be nice
10:39<daemonkeeper>Your VPS provider most likely (hopefully) has tons of tutorials on his resources.
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10:40-!-sand is "(unknown)" on (unknown)
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10:40<daemonkeeper>Besides, Howtoforge used to have a lot of tutorials.
10:40<djayb6>actually, I dont use a provider, it's a someone who has his own software
10:40<djayb6>ok im' gonna check
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10:41-!-mode/#debian [+l 497] by debhelper
10:41<SynrG>djayb6: rather than a big list of things, it would be better if you tackle one problem at a time
10:41<SynrG>then try to find resources to help, try using them, and then get back to us if you run into trouble
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10:43<djayb6>SynrG that's a good idea thanks
10:43<SynrG>generally, each package has its own documentation, and is sufficient to get each one set up.
10:43<djayb6>i'm gonna focus on apache first
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10:44<SynrG>if you're starting from scratch, learning all these tools, be aware that it takes time.
10:44<SynrG>be patient and thorough in your reading :)
10:45<djayb6>yes I saw that :)
10:45<SynrG>and welcome to the community. is this your first debian system, then? see also #debian-offtopic for general, social chat not related to support questions.
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10:47<djayb6>yes it's my first one, i used to be on a shared server before
10:47<djayb6>thanks :)
10:47<SynrG>ah. running debian as well, or something else?
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10:50<SynrG>!tell djayb6 about overview
10:50<SynrG>!tell djayb6 about fundamentals
10:50<SynrG>djayb6: you can privately query the bot about the topics referenced in those factoids
10:51<djayb6>oh that's really cool !
10:51<SynrG>!tell djayb6 about apache
10:52<djayb6>thanks, gonna enter in a long reading session ;)
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11:20<djayb6>Hi XeonBloomfield
11:20<XeonBloomfield>Is there any bigger difference when I install Debian base system from CD1 or XFCE-CD1?
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11:21<wzssyqa>after upgrade just now , all icon in gnome-shell became the same
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11:21<edbian>CD1 will install gnome, XFCE-CD1 will install xfce
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11:21<XeonBloomfield>edbian: I wrote "Debian base system", only tty without X
11:22<edbian>XeonBloomfield: Then I do not think so.
11:22<XeonBloomfield>edbian: I know that CD1 has Gnome and XFCE-CD1 has Xfce and Lxde
11:22<zulu>Hi, I want to move my root partition to the end of my disk, as booted with debian installer usb key, I saw the resize partition but not move partition, what should I do?
11:22<edbian>XeonBloomfield: I'm sure the differences between the packages on each are numerous
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11:23<XeonBloomfield>edbian: I think that it maybe only install more additional packages
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11:23<edbian>XeonBloomfield: and probably different ones.
11:24<XeonBloomfield>edbian: Look at size of Live images - Gnome - 1GB, Xfce - 800 MB
11:24<XeonBloomfield>edbian: Probably it installed more additional packages which was on CD because Xfce is smaller in size on disk
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11:25<XeonBloomfield>edbian: I deselected "Graphical user interface" in tasksel and installed "Laptop" and "Basic system utilities" (it's dell c400)
11:26<XeonBloomfield>edbian: That PC will be server for my backups and distcc helper ;)
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11:26<XeonBloomfield>edbian: That notebook*
11:26<XeonBloomfield>edbian: I'm not an newbie linux noob ;)
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11:27<ravi>hi, is there a way to calculate the total play time of a collection of audio files using mplayer/ffmpeg or similar tool?
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11:28<daemonkeeper>There are tools that read container meta data like avinfo,
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11:33<SynrG>XeonBloomfield: theoretically, that should result in the same system, then, as if you had used the larger CD1
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11:33<XeonBloomfield>SynrG: I think it too
11:33<SynrG>why? was there something that made you doubt this?
11:34<XeonBloomfield>SynrG: I said that I think too that it result in the same system. Sorry for my English... ;)
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11:35<SynrG>well, i just wondered if you asked the question here because you spotted some difference, or if it was just curiosity
11:35<XeonBloomfield>SynrG: I wanted to be sure about that
11:35<SynrG>not having tested it, reason tells me it should be the same.
11:36<XeonBloomfield>SynrG: Another question for you
11:36<SynrG>ask the channel, not me personally. i'm about to leave :)
11:36<XeonBloomfield>SynrG: Did you see PelicanHPC?
11:36<XeonBloomfield>ahh, ok
11:36<XeonBloomfield>Somebody did see PelicanHPC?
11:36<SynrG>this relates to debian how?
11:37<XeonBloomfield>It's awesome Debian Live based distro which allow you to create HPC type cluster in 5 minutes
11:37<SynrG>!debian based
11:37<dpkg>Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't know what changes were made by your distribution and it probably falls short of Debian's standards. #debian only supports Debian; you should respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent.
11:37<SynrG>ah, hmm. that's a little harsher than i had intended :)
11:37<XeonBloomfield>I'm going to do small network in my room...
11:38<XeonBloomfield>About 8 computers connected to high performance switch
11:38<XeonBloomfield>And don't say that I'm going to sleep on servers, ok? ;)
11:38<daemonkeeper>Do you?
11:39<XeonBloomfield>I will have the same space to sleep like now
11:39<daemonkeeper>Just a "bit" more noisy?
11:39<XeonBloomfield>I want to use small HP Thin Client terminals
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11:39<XeonBloomfield>daemonkeeper: These HP terminals use passive cooling
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11:40<XeonBloomfield>For example:
11:41-!-devil [] has joined #debian
11:41<XeonBloomfield>Terminal HP T5510 800MHz/512MB RAM/4GB HDD costs 67 USD
11:43-!-adi [~adi@2001:470:b471:0:30de:3230:e98f:742c] has joined #debian
11:43<XeonBloomfield>I'm going to buy Terminal HP T5720 with 1.0 GHz VIA's processor and about 1GB RAM
11:43<XeonBloomfield>It not consume much power and is silent
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11:44<Aleric>I have spamassassin on my debian firewall, but currently there is some huge mail that is constantly being tried to be delivered and always times out spamd :/... this will go on for weeks
11:44<XeonBloomfield>Somebody ever wondered about turning on 8 computers using WOL at one time and look at LEDs on these computers?
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11:45<XeonBloomfield>Aleric: Can you say something more about that mail tried to be delivered?
11:45<Aleric>How can I turn spamd off? I tried to just /etc/init.d/spamassassin stop before, but then nothing is delivered at all. How can I turn spamassassin off in a way that all mail is just normally delivered without filtering?
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11:46<Aleric>XeonBloomfield: it's a legit mail from a mailinglist with a large attachment... nothing I tried (white listing etc etc) helps.
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11:47<Aleric>It will always try to evaluate a mail to see how "spammy" it is, and that takes like 1 minute with that attachment .. so it always times out and the sender gets a "try again" error.
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11:47<babalu>is possible to install skypemate in ubuntu 10.10 ?
11:47<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it is unlikely to live up to Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu ( instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian>.
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11:48<sney>irc:// <- right click, connect, ask them
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11:48<XeonBloomfield>Aleric: Did you tried to generate config using ?
11:48<XeonBloomfield>Aleric: try*
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11:50<Aleric>XeonBloomfield: I suppose it might help if I just remove all filters, so it gets faster...
11:51<Aleric>This is not very user friendly :(
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11:51<XeonBloomfield>Aleric: Yeah, It isn't
11:51<Aleric>is there a way to increase the timeout ?
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11:53<XeonBloomfield>Aleric: Sorry but I didn't worked with SpamAssassin ;(
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12:42<mix22891>i want to play games
12:42<mix22891>what shuld i do?
12:43<wintellect>what sort of games?
12:43<mix22891>sim city 4, i can't see clearly there
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12:45*jackyf recommends openttd
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12:47<wintellect>mix22891: SimCity4 is a Windows game as far as I can tell - not sure if it'll work under wine
12:47<wintellect>you could try lincity - and open souce equivelent
12:47<mix22891>wintellect: it's not
12:48<wintellect>you mean, it's nto a Windows game?
12:48<mix22891>lincity?? google......
12:48<sney>playonlinux takes a lot of the ridiculousness out of making things work in wine, and it's available on debian from contrib
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12:49<mix22891>no, it's not work perfect
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12:49*MrFrood wanders off to find a pdp-11 to empire on...
12:50<Zaba>MrFrood, simh-pdp11 is too boring?
12:50<sney>mix22891: what is your native language?
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12:52<mix22891>O:-)im dead
12:52<sney>oh I remember you. ok.
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12:54<mix22891>sney!!!!!!!!!!! you'r no.1
12:54<cpatrick08> sim city 4 on wine
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12:54<mix22891>cpatrick08 no.1b
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12:56<cpatrick08>you can install lincity in a terminal aptitude install lincity-ng
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12:57<mix22891>ohhhhhhhhh i'm so daed........ my mom bring me food and i'm drop it down
12:57<themill>mix22891: perhaps you were looking for #moocows
12:57<mix22891>the what?
12:58<themill>mix22891: #moocows is this irc network's social channel. Perhaps you wanted to talk about dropping food in there rather than #debian.
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12:58<mix22891>it's just a jokeeeeeeeeee
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13:00<Flimzy>So I made a stupid mistake, it looks like... and I created a RAID1 array that wrote meta data to /dev/sdb. Then I changed my mind, partitioned the disk, and wrote the meta data to /dev/sdb1. But now at boot time, mdadm detects the array on /dev/sdb, which is empty, and thus doesn't find the meta data on /dev/sdb1... so I can't access any of my data. Is there a safe way to whipe the meta data on /dev/sdb? Or preferably, to force
13:00<Flimzy> it to start my array with /dev/sdb1 first, so I can ensure my data is safe before I write to the disk?
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13:02<dvs>Flimzy: If it's RAID1, then I would change /dev/sdb to have the correct data. Then I'd mark it faulty, remove sdb from the array, then add it back again.
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13:03<Flimzy>dvs: that'd work if it wasn't already operating in degraded mode :(
13:03<Flimzy>dvs: Thanks to a DOA drive
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13:07<Flimzy>Can I create a backup of the first few kb of the drive, then use mdadm to remove the metadata from /dev/sdb? OR use fdisk to rewrite the MBR (I assume thats' where the RAID metadata lives?)
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13:08<dpkg>To reinstall <GRUB> simply boot to your Debian install disk, live CD or whatever else you have, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), then mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext2 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc), then chroot into it (chroot /target) and run "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". Also ask me about <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>.
13:08<sney>hmmm, not that one
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13:08<sney>but yes, somewhere there's instructions on how big the mbr is, and you can usually repair it with dd
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13:10<arand>Flimzy: sney: 512b including the partition table, howevever grub uses an extra ~26k for embedding code
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13:11<sney>since Flimzy's issue is regarding an md array, the grub bit is irrelevant
13:11<Flimzy>okay, I just copied the first 100kb to a file
13:12<Flimzy>grub is actually running on a different device in my case
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13:13<arand>You may want to be careful and restore only relevant bits, Otherwise risk overwriting data on recovery.. If that data was metatdata or so...
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13:13<Flimzy> Yes, I'm sure I need to be very careful.
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13:13<Flimzy>Here's an oddity... fdisk shows that my /dev/sdb1 is in tact, however it doesn't show up in /dev
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13:13<arand>446 is the mbr excluding the partition table, afaik..
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13:14<Flimzy>Also, 'mdadm --detail /dev/sdb' says it's not an md device, although auto-assembly works (and results in the "empty" md0 I described before)
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13:14<Flimzy>arand: So a dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb bs=446 count=1 might do the trick?
13:15<arand>I don't think so...
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13:15<arand>Well it will erase any kind of boot instructions on there
13:16<Flimzy>I don't boot from this device
13:16<Flimzy>mdadm has a --zero-superblock option. Is the md superblock just at the beginning of the disk?
13:16<arand>Hmm, it may, but I know nothing about Raid I'm afaird.
13:16<Flimzy>I'll see what uncle google can tell me about that
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13:18*MrFrood would like to point out that other search engines are available...
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13:19<Flimzy>Well... lucky for me... 'mdadm --zero-superblock /dev/sdb' did the trick
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13:19<Flimzy>now upon reboot, it detects the array on /dev/sdb1 properly
13:20<Flimzy>and the LVM devices contained within
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13:23<Flimzy>Well thanks everyone, who offered your input.
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13:53<massimo>hey guys I just instaled iceweasle and loaded up youtube and im missing a plugin, whats the name of the package I need to install?
13:53<massimo>some flash package
13:54-!-zz_andres is now known as andres
13:54<massimo>awesome thanks
13:55<MrFrood>massimo: contrib has to be enabled in your soures.list before flashplugin-nonfree can be installed
13:56<ompaul>babalu: you about?
13:56<ompaul>woops wrong person
13:56<ompaul>babilen: you about?
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13:57<babilen>ompaul: yes
13:57<twentee>Hey im tryng to bridge wlan and eth but the little info i can find is unclear. Some say yes, some no. Does anybody know if this is even possible?
13:57*babilen has a deja-vu
13:57<ompaul>can you take a look at /msg dpkg non-free and kill the vrms comment it is as we discussed before "RUBBISH" ;-)
13:58<massimo>how to get my soundworking
13:58-!-Muzer is now known as MuzerAway
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13:59<ompaul>MuzerAway: please don't change your nick like that just do "/away not here right now" and your client will silently set you away thanks
13:59<ompaul>!tell massimo about audio
13:59<themill>ompaul: the vrms comment is exactly correct; we've covered this.
14:00<dvs>!tell massimo about alsa checklist
14:00<twentee>I dont need a walkthrough or anything, just asking if it can even be done
14:00<ompaul>themill: vrms should be abandoned and thrown out it is only as accurate as main etc
14:00<MrFrood>!tell massimo about alsactl
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14:01<themill>ompaul: all it does (nowadays) is tell you what packages you have installed from contrib and non-free. If it's DFSG-free then it's in main; otherwise it's in not.
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14:03<twentee>Sooo ill take that as a no
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14:18<massimo>hey guys whats the name of the package to install 'MPEG-1 Layer 3(MP3)decoder plugin'
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14:26<Floo>Hi. I have a big problem with postfix and saslauthd: May 29 20:24:24 lvps83-169-1-233 postfix/smtpd[9790]: warning: SASL authentication failure: cannot connect to saslauthd server: Connection refused
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14:26<Floo>Postfix isn't chrooted anymore and I checked the mux file with testsaslauthd
14:27<Floo>I can't find out what's wrong
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14:28<dpkg>Postfix is a <MTA> originally created as an alternative to <sendmail>. It aims to be fast, secure, easy to administer and (relatively) sendmail compatible. Receiving "no mechanism available" with SASL when used as a SMTP client? Install the suggested libsasl2-modules package. Kyle Dent's Postfix FAQ: . #postfix on
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14:30<Floo>So let's go to freenode.
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14:48<removealsa>Hi I would like to remove alsa and install pulseaudio on my debian . I typed apt-get --purge remove alsa* and the uninstalling message says it will install libartsc0 libsdl1.2debian-all
14:48<removealsa>any idea what this libartsc0 libsdl1.2debian-all is?
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14:48<sney>you don't want to remove alsa.
14:48<removealsa>why not
14:48<sney>I mean, unless you don't want sound at all
14:49<removealsa>my mic is not working with alsa so I am going to try pulse audio by removing alsa
14:49<troll>hey can someone tell me a simple way to switch to debian testing release?
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14:49<raboof>removealsa: pulseaudio uses alsa as the 'backend' to get the audio to you speakers
14:50<removealsa>ah! I see
14:50<sney>what raboof said. most of alsa is your sound drivers themselves
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14:50<troll>hey can someone tell me a simple way to switch to debian testing release?
14:51<sney>also, if you want to know what a specific package is is/does, run 'aptitude show packagename'
14:51<sney>dpkg: squeeze->wheezy
14:51<dpkg>Following a release, testing tends to be more of a developer's playground and a <moving target>. If you have to ask how to do this, ask yourself if you know enough about Debian packaging to run a non-stable release yet. From /etc/apt/sources.list, remove stable-specific lines like squeeze-updates and backports, then change squeeze to wheezy. "apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade". See also <testing> and <apt-listbugs>.
14:51<sney>troll: instructions ^
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14:52<removealsa>I ran this command earlier sudo apt-get --purge remove linux-sound-base alsa-base alsa-utils
14:52<removealsa>so I don't have alsa-base and alsa -utils anymore
14:52<gpm>so install them
14:53<gpm>you want them
14:53<removealsa>is it now okay to install pulse-audio now
14:53<gpm>even if you're gonna use pulse
14:53<removealsa>okay, thanks
14:53<troll>sney then i go with the next release... if that get stable i get stable too
14:53<sney>you should really research these things before you do them. thankfully, breaking alsa doesn't break your system
14:53<troll>sney i wanna stay on unstable permanent
14:53*removealsa scrambles to reinstall alsa-base alsa-utils
14:53<gpm>its only a reinstall if it's already installed
14:54<sney>troll: you can switch when that happens but it probably won't be for a few years. you *can* put 'testing' in your sources.list, but if you do, you should really subscribe to the devel-announce mailing list and make sure you have apt-listbugs installed
14:54<gpm>whoa even for testing?
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14:55<sney>troll: also, testing and unstable are 2 different things. read the descriptions on
14:55<gpm>i've only ever needed that for sid testing has been good to me but i guess i've just been lucky.
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14:55<sney>gpm: it can't hurt, certainly :P and wheezy has been having some very entertaining udev issues lately
14:56<gpm>oh yeah. i did have the /run bug on a recent wheezy install
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14:56<troll>sney... i know what testing is and i know what unstable is. how do i get to this mail list and that stuff?
14:57<daemonkeeper>gpm: Testing is not really different to Unstable. Packages are migrated automatically to it from Unstable, with very simple rule checks.
14:57<sney>troll: apt-listbugs is just a package, install it like you would normally. There's also apt-listchanges.
14:57<gpm>daemonkeeper: rule dependency stuff?
14:58<sney>troll: for the mailing list, check your irc messages in 2 seconds
14:58<sney>!tell troll about d-d-a
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14:58<removealsa>so now that I have done sudo apt-get install pulseaudio, how do I make the system use pulseaudio instead of alsa?
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14:59<daemonkeeper>gpm: A package is migrated to Testing after 2/5/10 days automatically (depending on the priority) if it does not introduce new RC bugs (i.e. someone actually _reported_ one) and all dependencies are satisfied.
14:59<sney>removealsa: read /usr/share/doc/pulseaudio/README.Debian after installation for configuration recommendations.
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14:59<removealsa>thanks. :)
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15:00<sney>that was pasted directly from dpkg's factoid about pulseaudio. if only you had just asked the bot ...
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15:01*removealsa makes a mental note about the bot
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15:01<sney>you can do /msg dpkg keyword on nearly any topic and it'll have at least some information
15:01<gpm>boy pulseaudio...
15:01<gpm>i dunno
15:01<removealsa>why do you say that?
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15:02<removealsa>I have had so much trouble with my microphone in skype with alsa
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15:02<gpm>well if it doesn't work with straight up alsa i don't know that pulseaudio is going to solve your mic woes
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15:02<troll>sney is this anouncement list to inform me or to give feedback to the developer?
15:03<removealsa>it used to work with pulseaudio when I was in ubuntu
15:03<removealsa>that is why I am trying it now
15:04<gpm>yeah but pulseaudio just manages the sound as a server, it's not going to make nonfunctioning hardware work
15:04<gpm>sounds more like a driver issue
15:04<gpm>(or a broken mic)
15:04<gpm>you could try with arecord
15:04<sney>troll: inform you. and warn you of possible brokenness coming your way.
15:05<troll>sney can i get this somehow via rss feed?
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15:06<gpm>i'm saying under no circumstances would it work in pulse and not in also
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15:06<gpm>but have at it if you wanna
15:06<sney>troll: I have no idea
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15:07<lindi-_>gpm: you might have hardware that works only at some specific samplerate and not others?
15:07<lindi-_>gpm: so app->pulseaudio->alsa might work even if app->alsa fails
15:07<gpm>lindi-_: mayyyyybe. doubt that's the case for this chap though.
15:08<troll>sney okey how can i edit so i keep floating on testing?
15:08<gpm>anyway, i'm out. good luck skyping. at least you don't have to deal with amd64 skype....they STILL don't make a 64-bit binary i think
15:08<troll>sney write testing before every line of my souces.list?
15:08<EVILUTION>it happends to me with my graphic card on ubuntu.
15:08<sney>troll: follow the instructions I gave you earlier, only instead of put 'testing' in place of 'squeeze'
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15:08<sney>troll: and remove stuff like security and updates because those don't apply
15:09<sney>!testing sources.list
15:09<dpkg>Using "testing" instead of the current codename (e.g. squeeze) in your sources.list isn't as bad as using stable in your sources.list; you will just seamlessly continue to track the "testing" distribution following a release. Note that for a few months just after a release, testing can be a pretty bumpy ride... perhaps running stable would be a better idea? See also <stable sources.list>.
15:10<troll>sney simply removeing ANY updates of security sounds pretty retarded...
15:11<sney>troll: it's because security updates are only provided for stable. stable has frozen versions so security and other minor updates are all it gets.
15:11<sney>Testing gets full updates of everything, and pretty often, so security-only updates would be redundant
15:11<gpm>oh really? d-i still adds a security line when i install wheezy.
15:12<gpm>or rather, it asks if i want to include the security repo
15:12<mjt>the question isn't if such repo exists, but how useful it is
15:12<sney>that follows logically since wheezy will eventually be released as stable, and it makes sense to have it in sources.list even if it doesn't do anything
15:12<troll>sney that makes sense thx
15:13<EVILUTION>it also seems like a compatiblily may check the lspci list to check your sound card.
15:14<troll>sney does it work to keep the update on stable and set the source download to unstabe so i can install unstable from souce?
15:15<sney>troll: rephrase?
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15:25<Srarf_>Hi, I have a Debian 6.0 VPS, and I was wondering how would I go about setting up a mailserver on it?
15:26<Srarf_>Not massively clued in on these things so any additional HOWTOs/FAQs would be appreciate :-)
15:29<ivo_>is suspend to ram broken only here or some of you also has problems with it
15:29<ivo_>all the init.d scripts run ok
15:29<ivo_>no error in the log
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15:38<snogglethorpe>anyone know how to work around the problem with sound-juicer (cd ripper proggie) not being able to read CDs recently ("Sound Juicer could not read the track listing on this CD.
15:38<snogglethorpe>Reason: Cannot access CD: <not mounted in expected location>" )?
15:38<snogglethorpe>googling around suggests many people in various distros have had the same prob, but no clear workaround
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15:40<snogglethorpe>I could use sound-juicer in the past, but neither downgrading to the oldest version in the deb archives, nor trying older kernels seems to fix the prob... "grip" can still rip CDs fine, so it doesn't seem to be a hardware/kernel/media problem (I'd rather use sound-juicer because it's generally much more convenient)
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15:42<snogglethorpe>in some places there was the suggestion that "hal" was the problem, but debian doesn't even use it anymore does it? I tried installing hal but don't see any change...)
15:42<lindi-_>snogglethorpe: it is used on kfreebsd
15:43<snogglethorpe>but there is one weird thing that suggests some daemon or service is the problem: in the error message above, the part in <...> is actually in a different language, even tho I invoked sound-juicer like "LANG=C sound-juicer" to avoid localization
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15:45<snogglethorpe>(hmm, maybe "#debian-gnome" would be a better channel to ask on...)
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15:56<dominique>good evening
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15:56<dominique>sney: hello
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16:01<Floo>Is it possible to login a username whose password hash (shadow) is * by ssh?
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16:06<mjt>Floo: yes, by using ssh keys
16:06<nacol>hi all, what is new?
16:07<Floo>and by password authentification?
16:07<Floo>no way?
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16:08<thewanderer1>Floo, you could change PAM to authenticate via something different :P
16:08<mjt>no password will match "*" in the password entry unless you change pam config
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16:41<capo>Question about
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16:45<devil_>capo: just ask
16:46<capo>i run ./ and i get this msg
16:46<capo>Extracts emails from google results.
16:46<capo>Usage : ./ <domain-name>
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16:48<lee-0>and what´s the question?
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16:51<capo>it's that why i don't get any results when i search for the domain for example
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16:57<yassine_hell>when i insert my cd , i get "boot:" ... idk what to write ^^
16:57<todd_dsm>hey all, I use yum in centos so I'm still in my learning curve with apt. Is there a way to check on packages without installing them? like yum list package
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16:59<babilen>todd_dsm: What do you want to list?
16:59<lee-0>capo, perhaps there aren´t any results to be found.
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16:59<munz>hey! guys i am trying to connect my pc to a router which is connected to a dsl cable through the ethernet port ! how ca i do that?!
16:59<babilen>todd_dsm: "aptitude show gnome-do" like that?
17:00<todd_dsm>babilen: ah, I was a little off, thank you.
17:00<lee-0>munz, get an ethernet cable and plug it in.
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17:01<sam_itx>hi guys, have networking question : Is there a different between doing eth0 --> eth0.100 --> br0.100 Vs eth0 -> br0 -> br0.100 ?? (performance, security or any other angle)
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17:01<sam_itx>where 100 is VLAN ID for example.
17:02<mjt>you can't have vlan ifaces on bridge components
17:02<devil>todd_dsm: apt-get install package -s will show if it would install, apt-cache show package informs what the package is all about
17:02<mjt>when creating a bridge you move _all_ configuration from eth0 to br0
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17:03<mjt>so it's _always_ eth0 -> br0 -> br0.100
17:03<thewanderer1>mjt: not really, no
17:03<weasel>well, you can.
17:03<weasel>only it doesn't really work, always or reliably
17:03<mjt>in recent kernels you can't anymore ;)
17:03<todd_dsm>devil: good notes, thanks for the training wheels :D
17:03<devil>todd_dsm: man apt-get is a good ressource
17:04<mjt>but it's possible to bridge eth0.vlan ifaces
17:04<thewanderer1>that's lame, you can't bridge different VLANs anymore? :P
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17:04<todd_dsm>I started going through it a few days ago, just haven't had focus time yet. thank you
17:04<thewanderer1>I've always bridged eth0.N where N is vlan number under a bridge
17:05<babilen>todd_dsm: There are a lot of things you can do. aptitude has very powerful search operators, apt-file lets you search for specific files, apt-cache lets you list the policies for packages and their dependencies ...
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17:06<mjt>thewanderer1: you still can do it - bridge vlan interfaces. but if your eth0 is a part of a bridge, you can't create vlans on eth0, only on br0. two different things
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17:07<thewanderer1>mjt: oh, that... okay
17:08<sam_itx>guys.. I am bit behind. So let me clarify.
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17:08<sam_itx>you can have eth0 --> eth0.100 -> br0_100 (just a name)
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17:09<sam_itx>you can also hae eth0 --> br0 --> br0.100 (vlan)
17:09<sam_itx>but you can not have eth0 -> br0 and eth0.100 -> br0_100 at the same time.
17:09<sam_itx>Is this right ?
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17:10<mjt>if eth0 is a part of a bridge you can't have eth0.100
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17:10<sam_itx>that is 3rd.
17:10<mjt>but i told just that 2 times already
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17:14<sam_itx>My question is, is there a difference between option 1 and 2 (assuming both work), where
17:14<sam_itx> Option 1 is : eth0 --> eth0.100 (vlan) -> br0_100 (just a name, not underscore in the bridge name)
17:14<sam_itx> Option 2 is : eth0 --> br0 --> br0.100 (here br0.100 is vlan interface)
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17:14<mjt>in first case bridge will only see vlan100 frames, not all of them
17:14<mjt>not all vlan* frames that is
17:15<mjt>so if you want to isolate only vlan100 in there that's the way to go
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17:16<sam_itx>Thanks. I am trying to setup some virtual machines.. so from your desc, is seems option 1 might be better from isolation perspective.
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17:21<sam_itx>Another clarification . As in Option 2, the br0.100 is a VLAN interface on the bridge, and not the bridge itself, so I CAN NOT do brctl add br0.100 tap0 right ?
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17:23<robyg72>buonasera a tutti!
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17:23<robyg72>Ho un problema con l'installazione di debian squeeze, qualcuno può aiutarmi?
17:24<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
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17:28<sam_itx>another question : how does the following two compare : when would you use one over another. Would setup 1 provide failover and increased capacity ?
17:28<sam_itx>setup 1 : eth0 and eth1 both added to a bridge and bridge configured with proper ip, netmask etc.. Vs
17:28<sam_itx>setup 2: eth0 and eth1 bonded and added to a bridge with proper ip, netmask etc.
17:30<mjt>fail over what?
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17:31<mjt>are both eth0 and eth1 connected to the same switch?
17:33<mjt>(you'll have to enable stp on the bridge if you want to bridge two ifaces connected to the same switch)
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17:45<Black_Prince>God ... Epiphany is cool
17:45<Black_Prince>And much lighter than iceweasel/firefox
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17:55<sam_itx>mjt: yes. eth0 and eth1 connected to the same switch. (good point about STP) From what I understand, both would be transmitting all the frames and if say eth0 goes down the eh1 would continue working...etc.
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17:59<JerrySpringer>hey can someone help me compile and install kernel 2.6.39?
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17:59<dvs>!tell JerrySpringer about kp
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18:00<JerrySpringer>whats kp?
18:00<dvs>read what dpkg told you
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18:02<dpkg>Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
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18:03<daemonkeeper>I'd say, this particular use of "someone" was rather specific
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18:28<Floo>!smart questions
18:28<dpkg>Go here to find out how to ask intelligent questions: - Be sure to look at the section - This FAQ has information to help many users solve their own problem more effectively and to help users interact more effectively with helpers. Also ask me about <reportbug>.
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18:31<daemonkeeper>You can use /msg dpkg
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19:04<dabir>anyone tell me how to download this LINUX program?
19:06<babilen>dabir: I would recommend to use redshift
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19:06<babilen>,info redshift
19:06<judd>Package redshift (x11, extra) in squeeze/i386: Adjusts the color temperature of your screen. Version: 1.2-3; Size: 18.4k; Installed: 112k; Homepage:; Screenshot:
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19:07<daemonkeeper>Moreover, being pedantic, its Linux not LINUX
19:08<jcress>i just installed debiuan on a hp ultraslim after boot the screen goes blank, ( monitor suspends ) not sure why. Hardware was working on windows fine. how to diagnose? and/or how to get to a terminal? ctrl-alt-f* doesn't get me to a virtual terminal
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19:19<jcress>i've tried booting to the gnome live cd, video dies when it tries to load, booting to debian live does the same thing. i magine i need to find a driver, but, not sure how to get to term
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19:21<lindi-_>jcress: can you boot debian live without X?
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19:21<jcress>not sure how
19:22<lindi-_>hmm, I thought it was a boot option
19:22<jcress>well, i installed in text mode
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19:22<lindi-_>ok good
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19:24<jcress>i have live and live failsafe
19:24<jcress>on the boot menu
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19:24<lindi-_>try that, I can't remember what it does exactly :)
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19:26<lindi-_>jcress: if you can get to a shell you can at least be able to read the logs via ssh or something
19:27<jcress>yah, fresh install, no ssh server running
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19:28<ayaka>g dpkg syspq
19:28<babilen>It might be KMS related, turning it off might help
19:28<dpkg>Kernel Mode Setting (KMS) has graphical modes initialized by the Linux kernel instead of X. It is hardware dependent, introduced in Linux 2.6.29. Enabled via modprobe as of xserver-xorg-video-intel 2:2.9.1-2 and xserver-xorg-video-radeon 1:6.12.192-2. To disable, edit /etc/modprobe.d/{i915,radeon}-kms.conf or boot with the 'nomodeset' kernel command line parameter.
19:28<ayaka>debian can't use SysRq ?
19:29<jcress>k, the live cd boots to gnome under failsafe
19:29<lindi-_>ayaka: it's disabled by default
19:29<lindi-_>jcress: ok and the display stops working at that point?
19:29<jcress>nah, its straight now
19:29<jcress>at least, the live cd is
19:29<ayaka>lindi-_, i see, I will make it enable
19:29<lindi-_>ayaka: there's a boot option
19:30<jcress>so, i'll try to figure out whats up with the xorg
19:30<lindi-_>ayaka: sysrq_always_enabled
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19:32<ayaka>lindi-_, I will add it to /etc/grub.d/10_linus
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19:33<lindi-_>ayaka: isn't /etc/default/grub a better place?
19:33<ayaka>lindi-_, yes
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19:34<ayaka>lindi-_, GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="" ? add to here ?
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19:35<ayaka>lindi-_, thank you
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19:36<WheatThins>50 1 l-l3lRlD Y(_) 6(_)Y5 lD0/\/7 74l<3 l<1/\/lDl_Y 70 1/\/\lPlR0lP3lR 5lP3l_l_1/\/6?!?!1!0/\/3
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19:38<WheatThins>\/\/l-lY 50
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19:43-!-WheatThins is now known as IDL1N6_15_K3WL_Y0
19:43*IDL1N6_15_K3WL_Y0 idles
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19:43<babilen>!ops IDL1N6_15_K3WL_Y0
19:43<dpkg>Hydroxide, bob2, caphuso, dondelelcaro, doogie, eeyore-, ElectricElf, ):, helix, ljlane, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, Netsnipe, TML, walters, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Alife, Myon, Ganneff, Maulkin, weasel, zobel, themill: babilen complains about: IDL1N6_15_K3WL_Y0
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19:48*IDL1N6_15_K3WL_Y0 holds an idle rave
19:48<daemonkeeper>Great, and no op alive.
19:48<daemonkeeper>When are you finally becoming op, babilen?
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19:49<WheatThins>Seriously why so idle?
19:49<jhutchins_lt>Flawless performance of the software leaves little need for technical support.
19:49<jhutchins_lt>You want busy, try ubuntu.
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19:52<quant>jhutchins_lt, busy yet useless (ending off-topic now)
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20:37<tp43>I have some vids on my laptop, can I play them on my desktop using telnet?
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20:52<paw>hmm.. damn. no google group on this server. strange.
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20:55<paw>I cant seem to locate a google apps support irc channnel :( do you mind if i just pop a question here ?
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21:17<andrew_>hi guys, what's the defacto way of getting software for stable if the package in the repos are outdated?
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21:24<thewanderer1>!tell andrew_ about ssb
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21:24<thewanderer1>if sid is not current enough, try uupdate (ask dpkg)
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21:32<nyov>andrew_: there is also the backports repository, if it has your package and is recent enough
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22:06<Guest2523>I looked into backports, I dont know if i am searching right, but there isn't much in squeezes backpor at all.
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22:10<nyov>Guest2523: there is only software there, someone deemed important enough to backport and assume responsibility for
22:10<sney>Guest2523: you're right. there's not much there yet. it's still pretty new. ssb is the only option for a lot of stuff
22:11<andrew_>Oh, misread. Ignore me.
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22:15<Pitxyoki>Do you know of any channel where I can get legal advice for software licensing?
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22:26<nevyn>Pitxyoki: are you a debian devleoper? if so debian-legal (for what it's worth.)
22:27<nevyn>Pitxyoki: the best option for specific situations is ask an actual lawyer. in your juristiction preferably who specialised in software licencing.
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22:28<Hydroxide>Pitxyoki: you can contact the software freedom law center, possibly, or email the FSF or another organization
22:29<Hydroxide>debian-legal isn't a good answer for software licensing questions per se, but it is a good answer for whether debian thinks something is likely to comply with the DFSG
22:29<Hydroxide>and even for that, ftpmaster is authoritative, not the participants on that list.
22:29*nevyn mentions that it's kinda bogus for that even
22:29<Hydroxide>(ftpmaster unless the project overrides via GR, that is)
22:30<nevyn>If you need legal advice consult a lawyer. (if you're a free software developer you may find someone willing to offer advice pro-bono
22:31<Hydroxide>such as SFLC, for example :)
22:31<Hydroxide>or less formal legal advice from the FSF's licensing people
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22:47<chl501>A bit old news. Linux kernel is going to be moved to 3.0 -
22:47<Pitxyoki>I was looking after some advice over a program I developed.
22:48<Pitxyoki>I'm not sure about what license would apply to what we want from it.
22:48<nevyn>what do you want?
22:49<Hydroxide>chl501: it's a bit old news that he was considering 2.8 or 3.0 ... it's certainly news to me that he made the decision
22:50<nevyn>my soundcard works more in 3.0 I helped test the alsa fixes for it.
22:50<Pitxyoki>nevyn, we want to allow linking with non-free and closed-source programs.
22:50<Pitxyoki>(we have a client-side library)
22:50<Hydroxide>Pitxyoki: lots of people can explain how the licenses work to you, though some of those people might be wrong, so hearing it from an official FAQ from the creator of the license (e.g. FSF for the GPL), or a trustworthy source like SFLC, is better than listening to people who may or may not be right
22:50<nevyn>Pitxyoki: lgpl?
22:50<Pitxyoki>But we want any and all changes made to any of the components to be made publicly available.
22:50<Hydroxide>Pitxyoki: the LGPL is designed for exactly that
22:50<chl501>Hydroxide: I just read a news reporting on 29, May, so I think maybe some people here have already known this. : )
22:50<nevyn>Pitxyoki: sounds like LGPL is what you want.
22:51<Pitxyoki>I actually read the GPL and LGPL both v2 and v3... But after some time I'm pretty dumb again about them.
22:52<Pitxyoki>I can't really tell the differences between each of them.
22:52<Hydroxide>Pitxyoki: in that case, check the FAQs on the fsf site, or the compliance guide on the SFLC site, or email the FSF licensing people
22:52<Hydroxide>Pitxyoki: they'll be happy to clarify
22:52<chl501> Pitxyoki: to my best of knowledge (But I might be wrong : p ), v3 seems to mainly deal with patent issue.
22:52<Pitxyoki>Oh, I meant
22:53<Pitxyoki><Pitxyoki> But we want any and all changes made to any of the components _that we provide_ to be made publicly available.
22:53<Hydroxide>Pitxyoki: right. what if they make a change to the components that you provide and use it on their own internal network privately? do you want them to be forced to share that too? I'm not aware of any free/open source definition that would consider that free/open source.
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22:53<Pitxyoki>We provide the components. Others might do the changes.
22:54<Pitxyoki>They have to share what they change on our programs.
22:54<Hydroxide>Pitxyoki: the LGPL would certainly require them to provide the modified sources of your components to anyone who they give a copy of the modified binary libraries
22:54<nevyn>Pitxyoki: you only have control at distribution.
22:54<Hydroxide>Pitxyoki: but no free software license would require privately modified and privately used changes to be shared publicly
22:55<Pitxyoki>Yes, we aren't concerned about that.
22:55<nevyn>Pitxyoki: go read the LGPL howto/faq.
22:55<Hydroxide>Pitxyoki: if you're okay with that, then yes you probably want the LGPL
22:56<Pitxyoki>We're thinking of people using what we did, improving it and then selling it claiming it was their work.
22:56<Hydroxide>but as nevyn and I are saying, read the FSF and SFLC documentation and email them if you have questions
22:56<Pitxyoki>I'll looking for the FAQs.
22:56<th>you can't prevent other from selling your (L)GPL works
22:56<nevyn>Pitxyoki: so selling isn't restricted by any free software licence.
22:56<Hydroxide>Pitxyoki: right, the LGPL won't allow them to remove attribution
22:56<Hydroxide>th, nevyn: selling and claiming it was their work is, though
22:56<nevyn>Hydroxide: true.
22:57<Pitxyoki>The issue is not so much about selling but about getting credit from where they don't deserve it.
22:57<th>oh, miss the last part..
22:57<Hydroxide>Pitxyoki: right. in that case the LGPL will satisfy that concern.
22:57<th>LGPL-like then
22:58<Pitxyoki>The FAQ is massive.
22:58<th>legal things, get used to it
23:00<Pitxyoki>By the way..
23:00<Pitxyoki>If I suspect a GPL violation, but I'm not 100% sure about it...
23:01<Hydroxide>Pitxyoki: check with the copyright holder or their lawyers. only they can enforce it, and they're in the best position to confirm or deny whether you are correct
23:01<th>put something to your code that can be used to identify your work easily
23:01<Pitxyoki>Should the "FSF people" be a good place to denounce it and get help for deeper analysis?
23:01<th>of course, make it non-obvious to anyone with bad intent
23:01<Pitxyoki>This is another issue, th.
23:01<Pitxyoki>Not my code in this case.
23:02<th>i see
23:02<Hydroxide>Pitxyoki: the FSF people can certainly help you understand how the license works, but they can only enforce the GPL in code where they own the copyright
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23:02<Hydroxide>Pitxyoki: if it's a GNU program, contact them. otherwise, I would say contact the primary authors or their lawyers privately, and be clear that you're not 100% sure, but tell them what you know.
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23:05<th>harald welte may be able to help:
23:05<Pitxyoki>I looked at that earlier.
23:05<Pitxyoki>Their latest news are from 2008.
23:07<Hydroxide>Pitxyoki, th: even harald welte can't enforce the gpl except by working with the copyright holders or their lawyers. nobody can. but he is quite practiced at evaluating a potential violation, certainly.
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23:08<th>wow, he's a lot younger than i imagine, never seen his photo before :)
23:09<Hydroxide>th: you'd be amazed at the age of several people in the community. I know there have been people who were debian developers on (some core team like maybe?) the kernel team before they turned 18, maybe even before 17. not many, and the one I have in mind was quite qualified, but still.
23:10<Hydroxide>yes that's vague, both intentionally and because my memory is foggy :)
23:11<Hydroxide>most people are probably in the 18-40 range I'm guessing, with some older and a few younger. that will probably widen as the community ages.
23:13<th>OMG, it happens...
23:13<th>Linux 3.0-rc1
23:14<Pitxyoki>Yep, its at already.
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23:17<dvs>No big changes? What's the point?
23:17<Pitxyoki>Thanks people.
23:17<Pitxyoki>See you tomorrow.
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23:18<th>er, because Linus want to change the major version?
23:19<dvs>That's so alpha male!
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23:23<baronobeefdip>hey quick question, is there a gui for bridging and configuring hostap
23:25<nevyn>dvs: the voices told him to do it.
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23:26*dvs puts on his tin foil hat
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23:39<dvs>He's getting orders from his alien overlord!
23:39<ml|>heh, ot over here -> ;)
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---Logclosed Mon May 30 00:00:11 2011