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#debian IRC Logs for 2011-07-02

---Logopened Sat Jul 02 00:00:03 2011
---Daychanged Sat Jul 02 2011
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00:25<osirisx>how do I "apt-get source" stored under a different architecture designation (to the one I'm using) in a repository
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00:26<lindi->osirisx: the source package is not architecture dependent?
00:27<osirisx>lindi-, no it isn't - wine-unstable 1.3.22 source can be compiled on either
00:27<osirisx>i386 or amd64
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00:28<osirisx>but I compiled it for i386 and uploaded it to my repository
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00:28<osirisx>now I can retrieve the source to rebuild for amd64
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01:23<osirisx>I can't seem to open .jar archives with file-roller now that I have moved to 64-bit
01:23<osirisx>does anyone else have this issue?
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02:03<dpkg><jpinx> can I edit sources.list in windows wordpad without screwing it up? * jpinx has an e2fs reader in XP
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03:15<inkbottle>Hi, Any idea why I don't have window decoration with xeyes? (kde, no .Xressoures) Eventually how to force them?
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03:58<chalet16>I got error "nvidia-glx : Depends: libgl1-nvidia-glx (= 275.09.07-1)" when I try to install nvidia-glx package using apt-get. What should I do?
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04:00<simonlnu>that's not an error, that's a message.
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04:01<chalet16>simonlu, ok but I'm unable to install this package.
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04:01<chalet16>so what should i do?
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04:04<simonlnu>i don't have enough info to help. you need to be more precise.
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04:05<simonlnu>and please use tab completion for nicks, otherwise people miss them
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04:08<chalet16>ok. First I'm trying to install nvidia-glx package using apt-get and I got message above. And with aptitude it suggest me to remove many package to install this package.
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04:11<chalet16>I have found #630775 bug with same message but I think it's different from what it does happen to me now. I'm using Debian with testing repository.
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04:12<Nemoder>chalet16: can you pastebin the command you ran and what it returned
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04:16<chalet16>currently, I have only official Debian testing repository in my sources.list.
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04:22<Nemoder>chalet16: did you manually install packages from unstable at some point?
04:23<valdyn>judd: versions nvidia-glx
04:23<judd>Package nvidia-glx on i386 -- lenny/non-free: 173.14.09-5; squeeze/non-free: 195.36.31-6; wheezy/non-free: 275.09.07-1; sid/non-free: 275.09.07-4
04:23<chalet16>yes, I have downgrade it using apt pinning but I doesn't sure that it cleanly remove it.
04:23<valdyn>chalet16: this nvidia-glx is broken
04:23<valdyn>chalet16: iirc
04:24<valdyn>chalet16: there is a factoid explaining this
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04:25<chalet16>how can i downgrade it back to wheezy? possible?
04:25<valdyn>chalet16: it *is* wheezy
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04:26<chalet16>so it mean that nvidia-glx package in wheezy is broken?
04:27<valdyn>chalet16: well, the one in unstable is not broken anymore, and Im not sure about the one in wheezy sinec i cannot find the factoid
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04:27<valdyn>chalet16: what is the version of your libgl1-nvidia-glx ?
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04:31<Nemoder>i'm not sure what the solution there is but I do find it amusing that aptitude's solution to fixing the video driver is to remove xorg
04:32<valdyn>Nemoder: no
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04:32<valdyn>Nemoder: aptitudes solution to broken dependencies is ...
04:32<Nemoder>..well yes :)
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04:33<chalet16>maybe use this package from sid might solve this?
04:33<Nemoder>I'm a terrible person and use nvidia's installer, at least it breaks things in predictable ways :P
04:34<valdyn>chalet16: that is one possible solution
04:34<valdyn>Nemoder: except when it doesnt
04:34<Nemoder>quite possible but it hasn't happened to me yet
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04:47<debianmac>hi boys and girls
04:49<debianmac>i want to install debian on my macbook pro (5,5), but i don't know what arch to download
04:49<simonlnu>i386 or amd64
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04:49<debianmac>that was fast :p
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04:49<andy_>Hello there! I'm getting strange crashes using Iceweasel/Chromium for some time when loading certain webpages. I can't corner them, after some uptime they also vanquish. Is anyone else experiencing this?
04:49<debianmac>thank you
04:50<valdyn>andy_: both browsers?
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04:51<andy_>Yes. So I also don't really know how to bugreport this.
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04:52<Snark>my grub tells me he can't read my initrd
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04:52<Snark>I did boot on a rescue, and I did regenerate the initrd
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04:53<Snark>but still no luck : I set the root, I set the linux, and when I set the initrd... and it tells me it "couldn't read file"
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04:53<andy_>I assume that somehow libcairo is involved, because there's this entry in .xsession-errors: " (gnome-power-manager:4971): Gtk-CRITICAL **: gtk_cairo_should_draw_window: assertion `GDK_IS_WINDOW (window)' failed" shortly before the crash.
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04:55<nickc>someone knows tools for diagnose system hardware?
04:56<andy_>nickc: What kind of hardware?
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04:57<debianmac>is it possible to use the entire hdd when installing debian and completely replace mac os x?
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05:04<debianmac>it was a serious question...
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05:06<grove>debianmac: I have need used a mac, but I don't see why that shouldn't be possible
05:07<debianmac>i don't want to erase my mac os x installation if i'm not sure it'll work :<
05:08<ani>anyone using nvidia driver 275 , or kernel , i am not sure which one but i am not getting any glitch on HD or any video .. its giving me superb performance
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05:09<bones_was_here>wow a working graphics driver !?!? quick save a snapshot of your section of spacetime!
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05:10<bones_was_here>(i assume your spacetime version is late enough to support snapshots)
05:10<ani>bones_was_here, to me?
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05:11<nyov>ani: it's probably both, you should install an older driver and downgrade the kernel to fix your problem
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05:11<bones_was_here>debianmac: yes its possible, by default your mac will have a single partition occupying the entire hdd, leaving no space to install another os
05:11<bones_was_here>ani: wait is your driver working well, or not working?
05:12<debianmac>do you think it'll be a complicated process bones_was_here?
05:12<ani>nyov, bones_was_here i just ameage its working more then better
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05:13<ani>not a single glitch .. wow , finally watching hd movie make enjoyable :D
05:13<nyov>i assumed that was the problem, since you asked :P
05:13<mihkel>Hi. I try to use pbuilder, but pbuilder create fails with
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05:14<bones_was_here>ani: ah yeah thats why im surprised
05:14<ani>nyov, i was so amagez .. i was testing all vids a have from tomorrow .. just woking great
05:14<bones_was_here>nobody ever talks about working graphics drivers
05:14<bones_was_here>they're always glitching and crashing
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05:15<bones_was_here>dont update anything :p
05:15<ani>bones_was_here, i am stable 6.0.2 with and 275 nvidia driver working greate man
05:15<ani>bones_was_here, ya i think so lol , dont gonna update anything xD
05:16<mihkel>I'm using Sid and pbuilder 0.200
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05:16<bones_was_here>i am unstable with catalyst 11.6 hanging my kernel
05:16<bones_was_here>before that, i had nvidia 270 series, that was even more unstable
05:16<ani>my net connection very slow to keep update my system with sid
05:17<ani>bones_was_here, btw i create nvidia-kernel-2.6.39 using sid nvidia-kernel source
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05:18<ani>and i am on 7 year old p4 pc lol
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05:20<debianmac>did you miss my question or did you just ignore it bones_was_here?
05:20<bones_was_here>debianmac: i was typing an answer but got distracted
05:21<bones_was_here>your mac probably has one single filesystem occupying the whole hdd
05:21<bones_was_here>afaik there's no way you can shrink that to make space for another os to install
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05:21<debianmac>i just want to completely replace mac os x with debian
05:21<ani>debhelper, use a different ssd or hdd
05:21<simonlnu>so just do it then. make backups.
05:22<debianmac>i would just do it if i knew how :p
05:22<bernat>ani: you're using xchat, aren't you?
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05:22<ani>yes bernat
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05:25<ani>bernat, you see my tabbed :D
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05:25<bernat>I see you're autocomplete nick fail :)
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05:26<bernat>there's a preference in the input box category, last item is useful
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05:27<ani>yes i know that
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05:29<mandark>Hi there !
05:29<mandark>I got a file, like : file RE.msg
05:29<mandark>RE.msg: CDF V2 Document, No summary info
05:29<mandark>And I can't find a way to read it )o:
05:29<mandark>I tried to compile
05:30<mandark>(and succedded) but it says that : ERROR> NOT_A_CDF_OR_NOT_SUPPORTED, any idea ?
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05:31<mandark>(I also find a debian package named netCDF, but it seems to be another thing too ...)
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05:31<bones_was_here>RE.msg sounds like an email thats been dragged out of some client into a directory
05:31<mandark>yes it's a mail (imported from work by my girlfriend, asking me to open it ...)
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05:32<mandark>But I can't identify what strange client she used ...
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05:32<bones_was_here>if you open it in a text editor you can probably see the plaintext data
05:33<mandark>Yes I tried an hexdump -C and I can see mail (headers, text version, HTML version...)
05:33<mandark>But she want attachments :-P
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05:33<bones_was_here>lol you wont need hexdump, cat will do
05:34<bones_was_here>email is plain text
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05:34<mandark>(cat will do but probably trash my terminal, so I like hexdump, or less)
05:34<bones_was_here>the attachments are encoded in their own format, you probably need a mail client to decode
05:34<mandark>Yes emails is plain text but in this file format there is some binary that can trash my term
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05:34<mandark>bones_was_here: You're probably right )o:
05:34<bones_was_here>ah well its probably come from a windows mail client then
05:34<bones_was_here>outlook maybe
05:35<bones_was_here>perhaps thunderbird can open it
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05:35<bones_was_here>but if the attachment file name is winmail.dat, you need another, separate program to extract the contents of that
05:36<drhouse>Hi all !
05:36<bones_was_here>(winmail.dat is a proprietary microsoft-only way of encoding attachments)
05:36<mandark>bones_was_here: I'll try thunderbird, good idea
05:36<mandark>bones_was_here: Thanks
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05:36<drhouse>Can i use Debian Testing at home ?
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05:38<daemonkeeper>You can, if you want. Be aware of potential problems.
05:38<mandark>drhouse: I used to do, so you can try :)
05:39<drhouse>Thanks !
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05:40<drhouse>Sorry for my English. Debian Testing Dvd 1 is containing Gnome 3 and KDE 4.6 ?
05:42<daemonkeeper>It will include KDE 4.6, but not Gnome 3.
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05:44<Noz3001>drhouse, gnome 3 seems to be only in experimental
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05:44<mihkel>Anyone have ides why pbuilder create is failing with
05:44<mihkel>or are there any alternatives to pbuilder?
05:45<mihkel>that work :)
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05:47<xbayrockx>how can i load the GUI on debian
05:48<drhouse>daemonkeeper, But it not buggy than ubuntu ? Kde 4.6 often crashed ? Or not ?
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05:48<drhouse>xbayrockx, startx
05:48<daemonkeeper>drhouse: I don't have any problems with KDE.
05:48<daemonkeeper>Well, nothing too serious.
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05:49<drhouse>daemonkeeper, you have latest kde ?
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05:49<daemonkeeper>drhouse: I do run Sid, yes.
05:49<bones_was_here>4.6 does crash more often than 4.4 atm
05:49<bones_was_here>well, bits of it
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05:50<daemonkeeper>You didn't a full upgrade then. KDE 4.6 tends to be very unstable if you left some parts on 4.4
05:50<drhouse>daemonkeeper, thanks to answer
05:50<daemonkeeper>By the way, drhouse, we have a channel dedicated to testing/sid users, please join
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05:53<bones_was_here>daemonkeeper: not sure how you can determine i didn't do a 'full upgrade' just from my reporting its less stable than 4.4...
05:54<daemonkeeper>What's your problem?
05:54<mandark>bones_was_here: Thunderbird succeed opening my mail, but only show the from, subject, and to field, it fail to show me the content / attachments )o:
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05:55<xbayrockx>how do you set up a web server with debian
05:55<bones_was_here>daemonkeeper: more frequent plasma crashes, and more graphics glitches
05:56<bones_was_here>graphics glitches mostly happen when composite is suspended
05:56<bones_was_here>corruption and such
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05:57<bones_was_here>that could be the driver's fault though, not really any way i can tell
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05:57<daemonkeeper>I do have the latter as well, but in my case that's definitively a nvidia issue
05:58<bones_was_here>i'm using fglrx
05:58<daemonkeeper>Plasma works fine for me (since I got past 4.1 :))
05:58<bones_was_here>lol 4.1
05:58<bones_was_here>4.2 is when it becamse usable for me
05:59<bones_was_here>is your corruption in the window boarders/decorations? i have other corruption too but thats the most noticable (and only happens with composite suspended)
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06:01<daemonkeeper>No, nothing like that. I have some problems (mostly) with Java applications when repainting events are glitching the window, but not the decorations.
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06:03<bones_was_here>ah well, probably mine is fglrx's fault then (suspected as much)
06:04<bones_was_here>possibly some of the crashes too
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06:05<daemonkeeper>If you suspect fglrx being the problem, you could disable desktop effects and see how things are going.
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06:28<selbeimanti>hi, i don't know much about wireless; is it easy in debian testing to move files between two machines that have a wifi modem without going via a router?
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06:29<ib_>hi everybody !
06:29<kota>-!- Sup
06:30<ib_>I need help about installing debian on a mac !
06:30<ib_>a partition specialist !
06:30<mandark>bones_was_here: I succeed ! I googled a string that seems specific, in the file : "substg1" and found that the file was in fact just an Outlook file (/usr/bin/file was saying CDF v2 ... )o: ) so I extracted the mail using and attachments using munpack :-)
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06:31<mandark>Should I report a bug about the fact that /usr/bin/file says that a ms Outlook file is a CDF v2 ?
06:31<ib_>someone can help me ?
06:31<kota>Do you want to duelboot or just run Debian as your sole OS?
06:32<ib_>sole OS :D
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06:32<daemonkeeper>selbeimanti: Sure, just create an ad-hoc network between both peers.
06:32<Bushmills>selbeimanti: once those two machines have connected to each other, or to a common access point, or to seperate access points, connected to each other, transferring files is easy
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06:32<bones_was_here>mandark: interesting, i'd expect file to notice the email headers
06:33<mandark>bones_was_here: I'll report this as a bug, we'll see...
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06:33<bones_was_here>maybe there's a good reason for it reporting CDF, but yeah sounds like a bug
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08:50<seppy003>hello, i need the old sarge netinstall repositories
08:50<seppy003>where do i get it? and do not work
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09:03<seppy003>daemonkeeper: w8 a sec, installer is stuck
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09:03<seppy003>i had to restart the installation
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09:10<j3rry>anybody here could help me out with debian dropping to initramfs on boot?
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09:10<seppy003>daemonkeeper: does not work
09:11<seppy003>daemonkeeper: there is written oldstable, stable, testing, unstable
09:11<seppy003>daemonkeeper: none is working
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09:31<egwk>seppy003, sarge was 3.1 5years ago I think its support has ended (not sure though).
09:31<seppy003>egwk: ye i know, but i need it
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09:36<egwk>seppy003, use cd/dvd from there with apt-cdrom
09:38<egwk>seppy003, the old repositories must be gone. I believe
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09:46<j3rry>is it supported to install debian on portable usb? or do i have to use usb hdd instead?
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09:48<seppy003>j3rry: the device has no usb port
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09:49<j3rry>seppy003: what do you mean?
09:49<netinstall>Hi, I am currently installing the debian netinstall system. Which kernel should I be using - linux-image-2.6-amd64 or linux-image-2.6.32-5-amd64
09:49<seppy003>j3rry: the laptop don't have a usbport
09:50<netinstall>And what is the difference? Is there a difference?
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09:50<valdyn>netinstall: thats not different kernels - read the package description
09:51<j3rry>seppy003: its a pc, and i tried to install debian on pendrive, not run, install on it, unsuccessfully
09:51<netinstall>thanks.. I will check it out
09:51<j3rry>so i was wondering is it supported to install debian on media that has a portable bit, rather than fixed
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09:52<seppy003>j3rry: yeah, but i have only floppy cdrom and a ethernet port
09:52<valdyn>j3rry: it doesnt matter if its portable or not
09:52<seppy003>does etch have floppy images?
09:53<j3rry>seppy003: i don't have floppy drive in that pc
09:54<j3rry>valdyn: thanks, but somehow I couldn't install grub on pendrive, do i need to prepare it before installation?
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09:59<valdyn>j3rry: i have no idea how your pendrive boots
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10:01<j3rry>valdyn: i leave its space unallocated and allow the partition manager during instalation to manage the whole space, so i believe it then behaves like any other pendrive
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10:01<j3rry>or does it
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10:03<diceroll>j3rry, what do you want to do ? installing a live system ?
10:03<ib_>anyone can help me to install debian on a mac ?
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10:05<netinstall>How do I specify a usb as a source in my sources.list... ideas?
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10:07<j3rry>i want to install debian on pendrive, since I dont have usb hdd, neither hdd connected to sata/ata
10:08<j3rry>pendrive that under any os is detectable as removable device, not hdd
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10:08<daemonkeeper>netinstall: see sources.list(5), in particular: file: entries
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10:12<abrotman>ib_: ppc or x86?
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10:24<agentc>whats wrong when using surfstick usb with vbox and kernel failure apears?
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10:28<agentc>please answer by email to
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10:29*akerl rushes to email him.
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10:31<patxi>ay alguiennnnnnnnnnnnn
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10:32<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
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10:37<susa>Hey I'm on squeeze 64bit. Recently when I log into an account and then try to switch user, the login screen is completely broken so that you can't see anything. Just by guessing needed key strokes I can still log into another account, but then the gui is still broken. It looks like the screen is divided into 5 or more strips each one fuzzy and illegible. Any ideas?
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10:45<SubKid>moin dudes
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10:49<netinstall>thanks daemonkeeper
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10:51-!-mode/#debian [+l 494] by debhelper
10:52<Quite>a general question: i recently reinstalled squeeze, and when i "safely removed" an external usb drive, the screen went black and i got a blinking caps lock led. the only thing left was to push the power button. what might cause this? this presario laptop is only a month old or so, could it be a hardware failure?
10:52<venom00ut>poor kroeckx, did you ban him from the debian project for the rest of his life?
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10:54<chaos>is there something similar to chntpw which can change username and/or add new user?
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10:57<sney>Quite: hardware failure is most likely, some usb ports have poor grounding which can cause that exact behaviour
10:57<Quite>sney, great input there
10:57<Quite>this baby is a budget model as well... sometimes it locks up when x starts
10:57<Quite>unrelated to the usb issue, of course
10:57<Quite>thanks anyway for some direction
10:58<emacsen_>hello ,guys i have an ext3 formatted disk changed to ext4 with this command "tune2fs -O extents,uninit_bg,dir_index /dev/sda1" and blkid shows that disk fs changed to ext4 while fdisk -l and df -T both returned ext3
10:59<Zaba>emacsen_, don't pay attention at fdisk, it shows the partition type as per MBR rather than filesystem type
10:59<emacsen_>so which fs does that disk have?
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11:00<emacsen_>and what about df -T?
11:01<Zaba>emacsen_, did you remount it after that tune2fs command?
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11:02<Zaba>emacsen_, I think df -T will report all of ext2/3/4 as ext3
11:02<Zaba>I might be wrong, though
11:02<Zaba>emacsen_, most trustworthy source is 'mount'
11:03<venom00ut>omg, he's still the maintainer of openssl
11:03<emacsen_>in fact i have installed debian on that usb thumb with ext3 fs first and tried to change it to ext4 last week
11:04<emacsen_>so how to see the 'mount ' information of the usb thumb disk?
11:04<Zaba>typing 'mount' without arguments will list mounted filesystems, including their type
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11:06<emacsen_>oh no the fs is ext3
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11:06<Zaba>emacsen_, maybe you're still mounting it as ext3? Chech fstab, etc.?
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11:10<emacsen_>so i need to modify /etc/fstab ,right?
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11:11<Zaba>emacsen_, if it has type set to ext3 and you want to mount as ext4, then yes
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11:12<emacsen_>done thanks zaba . i 'm going to reboot now
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11:18<emacsen_>hi zaba it works thank you
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11:27<Zaba>emacsen_, no problem
11:28<emacsen_>time for me to sleep ,have a nice day zaba ,bye~~
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11:50<me9>isn't LXDE shipped with a battery icon?
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11:56<anirban>me9 i think there a battery wadge in lxpanel
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11:57<anirban>me9 you can use conky for that :) .
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11:58<anirban>i am sure you know what is conky
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12:00<me9>anirban: I do not want to use non-free software
12:00<Black_Prince>That's the spirit
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12:01<me9>anirban: lxpanel is installed but there does not seem to exist something like wadge
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12:02<anirban>me9 conky is utils from contrib section
12:02<babilen>me9: Please also see +
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12:03<babilen>me9: conky *itself* is free software and nice.
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12:03<me9>babilen: maybe it's nice and free but it depends on binary blobs :(
12:04-!-mode/#debian [+o debhelper] by ChanServ
12:04<anirban>i can't think my desktop without conky :D
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12:05<me9>anirban: Inside VMs I don't care. I also got a Windows and mac VM. But on the host system there shall not be proprietary software
12:05<me9>One of the most important parts of Debian are the dfsg
12:05<TCW>what the hell is conky?
12:05<me9>TCW: stuff from the contrib section
12:06<TCW>me9, that much I got already... ok, let me have a look at my own :)
12:06<anirban>TCW, its a lightweight task manager and higly customizable
12:07<me9>how do I make a USB stick writable again after I did "cat <path to debian image> > /dev/sdX" ?
12:07<me9>do I have to repartition?
12:08<TCW>me9, as you did probably overwrite the partition table, yes
12:09<anirban>me9, you can use fdisk /sdX then use h for help
12:10<me9>anirban: thanks :)
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12:10<Zaba>fdisk /dev/sdX, to be exact
12:11<Black_Prince>(Or use gparted if you have X installed)
12:11<anirban>ya Zaba
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12:11<dean>Hi all I have mounted my aptoncd backup but not sure how to install all the packages together or do I have to do it one by one?
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12:11<anirban>Black_Prince, but he dont want binary blobs :D
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12:11<Black_Prince>dean, man apt-cdrom
12:12<Black_Prince>gparted is binary blob?
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12:12<dean>Black_Prince, How do I do that sorry I'm a bit of a noob
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12:12<anirban>Black_Prince, he said to conky to
12:12<Black_Prince>dean, just insert your cd into first cd drive, do apt-cdrom add and then do apt-get update, and it will use your cd for repository.
12:13<me9>what filesystem is recommended for USB sticks? vfat?
12:13<Black_Prince>well conky has some connection to non-free since it's in contrib ... (According to bugs babilen linked to)
12:13<Black_Prince>me9, fat32
12:13<anirban>me9 yes
12:13<dean>Black_Prince, It is a iso not a cd though?
12:13<Black_Prince>dean, mount iso as loopback device on /media/cdrom ...
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12:14<dean>Black_Prince, I have mounted it using gmountiso?
12:14<Black_Prince>dean, mount -o loop /path/to/iso /media/cdrom && apt-cdrom add (There was some bug when I used it last time, I had to remount after every apt-get update or apt-get install)
12:15<me9>anirban: you're mixing stuff up. I am only against all software that is not free or does depend on stuff that is not free
12:15<anirban>me9 try something like mkfs.vfat -n ‘Label’ -I /dev/sdX
12:15<me9>anirban: and GNU software like gparted will ever be free :) (even though I don't use it...)
12:15<me9>anirban: k
12:16<dean>Black_Prince, I really don't know what I'm doing lol
12:16<dean>Black_Prince, When I open the cd I see loads of deb packages isn't there a way to get all of them to install without installing them one at a time?
12:17<bernat>please, where does the login manager read the last/default user session from?
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12:17<anirban>dean, dpkg -i *
12:17<Black_Prince>dean, I told you the way, use apt-cdrom, but iso has to be mounted on /media/cdrom or you have to know mount point and change it with apt-cdrom -d /path/to/mountpoint add
12:17<Black_Prince>anirban, that could mess up things ...
12:18<dean>Black_Prince, I don't know how to do it in terminal
12:18<lindi->me9: do you mean free as in DFSG?
12:19<dean>Black_Prince, How do I mount the iso?
12:19<Black_Prince>dean, what's that package called you mounted your iso with?
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12:20<Black_Prince>dean, what debian version are you using? I can't find that one in squeeze
12:20<me9>lindi-: yes, that the fact why I love Debian! It's the philosophy that meets mine.
12:20<dean>Black_Prince, I am using Ubuntu
12:20<dselect>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it is unlikely to live up to Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu ( instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian>.
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12:21<dean>Black_Prince, Am I in the wrong room then lol
12:21<Black_Prince>dean, this is debian ... doh
12:21<Black_Prince>!otherchannel dean #Ubuntu
12:21<lindi->me9: ah, you mean gnu parted and not gparted?
12:21<dean>Out of curiosity is debian better than ubuntu?
12:21<Black_Prince>%otherchannel dean #Ubuntu
12:21<dselect>dean: The channel you are looking for is #Ubuntu on Please do /server and then /join #Ubuntu. If your client supports it, you can also right-click the following link and choose connect: irc://
12:21<Black_Prince>dean, don't try asking that one, you'll just start a flame war
12:22<dean>Black_Prince, Sorry lol
12:22<dean>Black_Prince, I thought Ubuntu was debian
12:22<me9>lindi-: should all be free software
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12:22<lindi->me9: sure
12:23<Black_Prince>judd versions icedove
12:23<judd>Package icedove on i386 -- lenny:; lenny-security:; squeeze: 3.0.11-1+squeeze2; squeeze-security: 3.0.11-1+squeeze2; squeeze-backports: 3.1.11-1~bpo60+1; sid: 3.1.11-1; wheezy: 3.1.11-1
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12:23<Black_Prince>5.0 isn't even in experimental yet .. .
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12:25<anirban>judd versions kde
12:25<judd>Package kde on i386 -- lenny: 5:48; squeeze: 5:66
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12:25<daemonkeeper>kde is a meta package
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12:26<anirban>daemonkeeper, so will be it kde-base
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12:27<Black_Prince>I am just curious why did people who wrote instructions on use sudo, doh
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12:27<daemonkeeper>anirban: Please see for KDE 4 related packages you perhaps want/need
12:30<anirban>4.6 is in testing nice
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12:31<Black_Prince>gnome-shell still in experimental, wow
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12:31<anirban>i am happy with openbox
12:32<Black_Prince>I am happy with gnome 2
12:32<anirban>Openbox 3.4.11
12:32<jaimesilva>Hello, I'm having trouble with a monitor that goes off after kernel load. I think that current resolution is not supported. How can I configure terminal (framebuffer?) resolution ?
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12:33<Black_Prince>jaimesilva, add nomodeset to kernel command line
12:34<anirban>Black_Prince, my pc is P4 openbox suite is better
12:34<Black_Prince>anirban, my pc is P4 too
12:34<Black_Prince>dpkg is still depressed :(
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12:34<jhutchins_lt>dselect: kms?
12:34<dselect>Kernel Mode Setting (KMS) has graphical modes initialized by the Linux kernel instead of X. It is hardware dependent, introduced in Linux 2.6.29. Enabled via modprobe as of xserver-xorg-video-intel 2:2.9.1-2 and xserver-xorg-video-radeon 1:6.12.192-2. To disable, edit /etc/modprobe.d/{i915,radeon}-kms.conf or boot with the 'nomodeset' kernel command line parameter.
12:34<anirban>Black_Prince, how much time its took to compile a kernel
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12:35<Black_Prince>30-40 minutes optimized one, 2 hours stock one
12:35<jhutchins_lt>jamuraa: See above.
12:35<jhutchins_lt>jaimesilva: See above.
12:35<jhutchins_lt>jamuraa: Sorry.
12:35<anirban>jhutchins_lt, xchat :D
12:35<Black_Prince>*shrug* I tought I already told about adding 'nomodeset' to kernel cmd line
12:36<jhutchins_lt>Black_Prince: Yep, and the factoid didn't really add anything.
12:36<Black_Prince>It would be hard to edit /etc/modprobe.d files without looking at what are you doing heh
12:37<anirban>yep how can he edit without log on it
12:37<jaimesilva>jhutchins_lt: see what?
12:37<anirban>he have to do that fater nomodeset part i think
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12:38<Black_Prince>when monitor is turned off it does not prevent you from login but you have to do it blindly ...
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12:38<anirban>lol Black_Prince
12:38<jhutchins_lt>jaimesilva: What Black_Prince told you.
12:38<Bekir>How Are you Alls :)
12:39<jhutchins_lt>anirban: He appears to have access during the grub menu session, so he can edit it there.
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12:39<anirban>jhutchins_lt, i am on edit /etc/modprobe.d/{i915,radeon}-kms.conf :D
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12:40<Black_Prince>Meh I forced initrd to use uvesa on boot ...
12:40<dean>Black_Prince, I am back again ubuntu room sucks so unhelpful I am really frustrated now lol I have mounted the iso and can see loads of deb files is there a way to install them all at once?
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12:41<jaimesilva>Black_Prince, jhutchins_lt: OK, I guess that disables framebuffer support, but what if I wan't to configure console resolution?
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12:41<Black_Prince>jaimesilva, yes that disables framebuffer. Also what card are you using?
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12:42<Black_Prince>Or what card do you have? (This one looks better)
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12:42<jhutchins_lt>jaimesilva: I guess you'll have to find the documentation for the framebuffer.
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12:42<dean>Black_Prince, Does debian work similar to Ubuntu in terms of installing codecs and stuff?
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12:42<Black_Prince>dean, debian software policy is more stricter (you may not get all codec you have in ubuntu)
12:43<dselect>DFSG is the Debian Free Software Guidelines, which are explained at . For a full list of DFSG-compatible/incompatible software licenses, see
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12:43<jaimesilva>Black_Prince: It's an ATI Radeon Xpress 200
12:43<dean>Black_Prince, In terms of restricted drivers and stuff not good then?
12:43<jhutchins_lt>dselect: radeon?
12:43<dselect>Radeon is a brand of graphic processing units by ATI/AMD ( The radeon open source display driver is packaged for Debian as xserver-xorg-video-radeon, optionally install libgl1-mesa-dri for 3D acceleration. Also ask me about <radeon firmware>. #radeon on For the proprietary driver, see <fglrx>.
12:44<Black_Prince>jaimesilva, disable framebuffer, boot without it and use hwinfo --framebuffer to see list of available modes, doh ... Also you may want to use uvesa or vesa
12:44<anirban>jaimesilva, its almost 6 years old and a onboard chip i think
12:44<jaimesilva>jhutchins_lt: I've tried that but I don't know which package docs to look at
12:45<Black_Prince>jaimesilva, radeon firmware is in package firmware-linux-nonfree (requires non-free repo to be enabled)
12:45<jaimesilva>Black_Prince: I think the throuble is not the video card but the monitor, it's an old CRT that's getting problematic, suddenly it doesn't show resolutions it used to work in
12:46<Black_Prince>Buy another monitor then ...
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12:46<jaimesilva>Black_Prince: I know I have to buy a new one, but I can't right now + it works on some resolutions
12:48<jaimesilva>So there's no tool to configure console resolution?
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12:49<Black_Prince>jaimesilva, maybe with changing grub_gfxmode
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12:51<cybersphinx>jaimesilva: The video= kernel parameter should do that.
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12:57<jaimesilva>nomodeset did not worked, the monitor still goes blank
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12:59<Isk>Trouble whit install Libreoffice, is it me or is there a erro in the pack libreoffice
12:59<jhutchins_lt>jaimesilva: Can you get to a console? Does it work in rescue mode?
12:59<jaimesilva>all I get is "Waiting for /dev to populate..." and then the monitor is turned off
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13:00<jaimesilva>jhutchins_lt: Sometimes X gets displayed, sometimes don't, when X works if I try ctrl+alt+F1 the monitor turns off. I'll try on rescue mode
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13:03<jaimesilva>jhutchins_lt: If I start with the "recovery mode" from grub the screen also goes blank
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13:04<anirban>jaimesilva, add nomodeset on in kernel line
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13:05<anirban>you mite adding that in last line i think
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13:06<jaimesilva>anirban: I've already added that to kernel options on /etc/default/grub and then ran update-grub but it didn worked
13:07<booom>when I start virt-manager it pops up a warning window that states "Unable to open a connection to the libvirt management daemon. [...]". I checked on it and found out that it is a process hierarchy problem with libvirt-bin but I found no solution for Debian so far. Any idea?
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13:07<booom>qemudwritepidfile:535 failed to open pid file '/var/run/' : file exists
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13:08<Black_Prince>Isk, how do you install libreoffice?
13:09<booom>apt-get install libreoffice?
13:10<Black_Prince>If you are installing it in squeeze, backports repo needs to be enabled and right command would be ' apt-get install -t squeeze-backports libreoffice '
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13:11<booom>ah okay :) I am using testing
13:11<chealer>Isk: in the libreoffice package?
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13:15<netinstall>When I do apt-get dist-upgrade on a basic netinstall it is telling me that apt is going to fetch 90.9 megs. What is it fetching? Are these things not part of base install? Can someone point me to documentation on what apt-get dist-upgrade adds to the base install?
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13:16<grove>netinstall: It shouldn't add anything, but it should tell you what it wants to do
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13:17<akerl>netinstall: those would be updates...
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13:17<jaimesilva>jhutchins_lt: I'm getting to console by ssh but otherwise is not possible
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13:18<netinstall>some of those packages are not on my system. What do you guys think dist-upgrade or just upgrade...
13:18<jaimesilva>Black_Prince: hwinfo --framebuffer does not show anything
13:18<netinstall>I have wheezy as one of my sources for some new packages..
13:18<anirban>netinstall, those are recomanded packages i think
13:18<netinstall>Maybe that is the reason for the 90+ megs?
13:19<netinstall>If I just do upgrade its 41.7 megs
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13:20<netinstall>So I am confused about the recommendations here..
13:20<anirban>netinstall, there is some packages those recommand those new packages
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13:20<grove>netinstall: Questions about wheezy should really go to #debian-next. But whether you should use upgrade or dist-upgrade really depends on what you want
13:21<Isk>If I rm openoffice it say the same using squeeze
13:21<chealer>netinstall: updates and new dependencies of updated packages
13:21<booom>grove: what? Are you telling that this channel is only about stable?
13:21<netinstall>Why would you use dist-upgrade for instance?
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13:22<grove>netinstall: If you're really worried about the size of the download you could try to add --no-install-recommends
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13:22<s_i_m>jaimesilva, what is your video card and what fb driver gets loaded?
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13:22<s_i_m>jaimesilva, you may see the driver in the output of lsmod
13:22<netinstall>thanks anirban and chealer - that clears up some size questions.... but not the confusion between the size difference b/w dist-upgrade and just upgrade.
13:23<netinstall>and now a new "--no-install-recommends"
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13:24<coruja>netinstall, upgrade doesn't install new packages, dist-upgrade does
13:24<anirban>dist-upgrade same as aptitude full-upgrade
13:25<Black_Prince>jaimesilva, then your card does not support framebuffer
13:25<grove>dist-upgrade is for upgrades Debian versions and might install new and remove pacakges. upgrade only upgrades packages that are installed and never removes packages
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13:26<netinstall>Ah - so if I am just interested in having a secure uptodate system that is relatively more bug-free than when it was released, would you say that it is wiser to go with dist-upgrade?
13:27<bst>netinstall: read man apt-get
13:27<netinstall>(considering that this netinstall version was released just last week, that's quite a lot of upgrading.
13:28<netinstall>bst thanks, reading it now
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13:31<Black_Prince>I am not used to debian to crash like this :/
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13:32<artem>yo niggaz
13:32<Black_Prince>Jul 2 19:26:09 krejzi kernel: [ 5256.704018] [drm:i915_hangcheck_elapsed] *ERROR* Hangcheck timer elapsed... GPU hung
13:32<artem>anybody here tp cht
13:32<artem>anybody wanna chat?
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13:33<Black_Prince>dselect chat
13:33<dselect>i guess chat is what we do in #debian-offtopic
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13:33<artem>i'm russian i don't know the rules here
13:33<vrkalak>works for me
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13:33<anirban>Black_Prince, kernel panic?
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13:34<artem>pernel kanic lol
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13:34<chealer>netinstall: you should always use dist-upgrade, baring exceptional circumstances
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13:34<anirban>i am using quite new kernel with stable.. no panic still
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13:35<vrkalak>anirban: i have the 2.6.39 kernel with 'stable' . . . no problems
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13:36<babilen>artem: If you want to chat you are probably looking for a different network (dalnet, efnet, ...) or at least a social channel such as #moocows
13:36<anirban>Linux Dragon #1 SMP Fri Jul 1 02:45:25 IST 2011 i686 GNU/Linux vrkalak
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13:36<s_i_m>one reproducible crash of 2.6.32 here I know of: take out a usb hdd while mounted with autofs and expect an oops soon
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13:37<vrkalak>anirban: i compiled the -39-generic kernel from
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13:37<anirban>ya same here, and i use the nvidia-kernel source from sid to build nvidia-kernel-2.6.39
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13:38<jeffpc>I tried to install testing on thinkpad t520, but after the installation completes and the system reboots, things hang at the waiting for devices stage
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13:39<anirban>s_i_m, ya ..that a issue on 32
13:39<s_i_m>anirban, was that reported?
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13:41<vrkalak>they say the newer kernel have better usb-modem device support ... although, I have never had any problems getting my usb-modem working with debian
13:41<variable_>hi, is there some mp3 to wma converter app?
13:42<anirban>s_i_m, think kernel compile badly .. coz i use the same .config from 32 for 39 and same for 39 too
13:42<anirban>i have to rebuild a new kernel
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13:42<s_i_m>anirban, in that case you do a make oldconfig and answer some questions.
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13:43<s_i_m>variable_, sox?
13:43<netinstall>chealer: doing dist-upgrade now. thanks for the advice
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13:43<anirban>s_i_m, as i said i use the old .config from 32
13:44<anirban>and make some changes
13:44<anirban>like i remove all lapi supports
13:44<s_i_m>anirban, then it should okay, perhaps.
13:44<anirban>ya i think so.
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13:45<anirban>or may be my hub
13:45<anirban>coz i dont seen any kernel panic from kernel log
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13:47<artem>guys i have some problem with my xubuntu
13:48<babilen>dselect: ubuntuirc
13:48<dselect>This is not the Ubuntu help channel. Please do /server and then /join #ubuntu. If you are using XChat, you can right-click the following link and choose connect. irc://
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13:48<babilen>artem: Sorry, but it looks as if you relly picked the wrong channel :)
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13:49<anirban> artem irc:// [if xchat rightclick to connect]
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13:49<anirban>oops #ubuntu *
13:50<artem>sorry guys
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13:50<artem>that channel is the first normal window i see in my xubuntu where i can take help
13:50<akerl>artem: That's dumb, since this channel is #debian
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13:51<netinstall>are you all having kernel panic on wheezy''s kernel?
13:52<daemonkeeper>netinstall: Obviously not :)
13:52*akerl points helpfully at topic.
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13:54<netinstall>I am kind of foggy on all of these versions /testing/non-testing/main/experimental/cross-over kernels/daily builds and what nots...
13:55<akerl>? where are you seeing all these versions?
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13:55<akerl>stable/testing/unstable. Each has one code name. Problem solved
13:55<vrkalak>net did you read the Debian Wiki for explanations of these?
13:55<netinstall>this is slighly tangential but which keyboard layout matches with the US international (on windows) most closely - alternative international/international with altGr dead keys/ international with dead keys?
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13:56<netinstall>vrkalak: yes, as a matter of fact I was reading the whole wiki before
13:56<vrkalak>netinstall: I usually go with the first one that pops up
13:56<netinstall>its a bit tough to get when you trying to process many things at once
13:57<vrkalak>netinstall: agreed, took me awhile to grasp everything, too
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13:59<netinstall>akerl: your messages are prefaced with some code and PRIVMSG. eg, 3c03::13:6000 PRIVMSG I am a bit unsure whether your nick is a bot or not... If not, my apologies
13:59<Bushmills1>netinstall: stable is a good starting point
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14:00<netinstall>I have been on regular (stable) vanilla debian for a while now.. so I am trying netinstall as an experiment to see if I get a bit more control over what goes in
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14:01<grove>netinstall: What client are you using? akerl's messages look normal here, and "PRIVMSG" is a part of the protocol that your client should hide
14:01<akerl>That code would most likely be my IP, and idk where PRIVMSG is coming from
14:01<netinstall>huh, I am on
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14:02<akerl>netinstall: You realize that netinstall is basically the default install, but pulled over the net rather than on the install media, right?
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14:02<netinstall>I am doing the netinstall on my other laptop so this is a temporary reference/advice asking terminal
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14:04<netinstall>Ah! sorry, for ignoring you for a while akerl and thanks for all the helpful messages. I really thought you were some bot message triggered by others here
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14:05<netinstall>akerl: yes, I wanted to have more control on default applications
14:05<akerl>netinstall: How do you expect that netinstall will help with that?
14:05<grove>netinstall: No matter what install medium you use, the installer is the same, and thus the same choices will lead to the installation of the same packages.
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14:06<akerl>The difference between the netinst and full install media is not what they install, but where they get it. One uses the online mirrors, other uses the disk. But either way, you get the same stuff.
14:06<Bushmills1>netinstall: what sort of control are you lacking with cd based installers?
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14:10<babilen>netinstall: FWIW - It is absolutely fine to use the netinstall. The testing installer might, however, be buggy and error-prone and I would recommend to install squeeze and upgrade from there. (or just stay with squeeze)
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14:13<netinstall>well... I am hoping that NO applications will be installed with the netinstall because it doesn't have anything on it. For eg. abiword, gnumeric, etc. I am doing exactly what babilen just suggested. Starting with netinstall cd of squeeze and then doing a dist-upgrade on it. My sources list has a wheezy source in it because the latest version of R is on wheezy and not on squeeze
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14:14<akerl>netinstall: Again, you are not understanding the netinst
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14:16<babilen>netinstall: You have to install at least some applications -- An installation that installs *nothing* is not a real installation. What you are actually after is an installation *without* the desktop task, which you can select/deselect with *all* installers regardless of them residing on the netinst, cd1, dvd1 or br1
14:16-!-curentus [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:17<babilen>netinstall: You *might* be able to pull R from backports or backport it yourself. I am not a R hacker, so I am not sure about the R support in backports
14:17<grove>Even if you install from DVD (I think that's the currently supported media with the highest capacity) you don't have to install anything but the absolute minimum
14:17<babilen>grove: don't forget blu-ray ;)
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14:20<grove>babilen: I'll try to remember
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14:21<diego>Hi, I installed KDE long time ago and didn't like it, so I want to recover my space
14:21<diego>if I run aptitude purge kde ... gnome won't be affected right ?
14:21<diego>will I get rid of all kde dependencies with that ?
14:21<netinstall>to be quite honest, I don't know how to install from the cd without the "desktop tasks"... Didn't see any option asking me to opt out..
14:22<lindi->netinstall: there definitely is one
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14:22<SynrG>other options in the same menu are "mail server", "print server", etc.
14:22<ompaul>netinstall: on the little blue screen you will see an asterisk beside desktop and have fun
14:23<grove>netinstall: You should have been given a list of choices like "Desktop environment", "DNS server"..., just don't select "Desktop environment
14:23<lindi->one picture is worth a thousand words :)
14:24<ompaul>diego: that will only delete stuff that is kde dependent you could check your dpkg logs to see all the stuff you installed at that time, so you can get the extras like ohh games or some random program you installed for kde but works on gnome
14:24<netinstall>so that's what is installing extra stuff!
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14:24<netinstall>damn.I wish I had known this before
14:24<ompaul>diego: and clean out your /var/cache/apt/archives etc
14:25<ompaul>netinstall: it is not "extra stuff" it is the choice "I choose a default install and I get a default desktop" it means a lot of usually sensible stuff gets installed
14:25<diego>ompaul: did the archives thing already, the thing is that I have a lot of my space in a Windows (NTFS) disk , that I don't use
14:26<netinstall>what does standard install?
14:26<diego>but I dont know how to make my partition bigger
14:26<akerl>netinstall: Standard packages.
14:26<diego>without formatting
14:26<diego>do you know how to resize ext3 ?
14:26<dselect>GParted is the <GNOME> partition editor, which uses libparted (see <parted>) and other optional filesystem tools. Install the ntfsprogs package to enable <NTFS> support and the dosfstools package for FAT16/32 support. Consider a <debian-live> image and installing gparted (after boot) as an alternative to the GParted Live CD. #gparted on
14:26<ompaul>diego: that is your set of choices, if they don't go together well I can't help that. ;-) you have to make decisions and take responsibility for those decisions, pretty much like life ;-)
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14:27<diego>hehe, is gparted able to resize to the left :P
14:27<ompaul>diego: I don't know if you can change your ext3 but you most certainly can add in a partition and give it extra functionality /var or /home and then using a live cd or something help move your data around and stuff like that
14:27<diego>cause windows is on the left side
14:28<ompaul>you can do it as root if you are slow and deliberate about the changes
14:28<Black_Prince>diego, use gparted live cd to shrink windows partition and add extend ext3 to the free space
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14:28<ompaul>but again you have to think though your choices
14:29<diego>hehe, yeah, I will think about it, maybe I will just copy the stuff somewhere and reinstall from scratch ... I wanted to have x64 anyway
14:29<diego>and I have i386 now
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14:32<grove>diego: Backup+reinstall+restore sounds like the way to go
14:32<ompaul>diego: it appears that I am wrong about the extending stuff but if you are going x64 then start from scratch and enjoy
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14:33<diego>yeah, I'm just always lazy about doing it , but I guess it should be the best way to also get my windows space for debian :P
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14:56<clock>When I run arecord, I get error message The dmix plugin supports only playback stream
14:56<clock>What should I do that arecord works?
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14:57<clock>Recording in audacity works
14:57<clock>Playback in Firefox and Skype and mplayer workds
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14:57<valdyn>clock: why is your default recording device dmix?
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14:58<clock>valdyn, I don't know
14:59<valdyn>clock: "arecord -D hw:0,0" should work
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15:00<clock>valdyn, yes works thanks
15:00<clock>valdyn, how can I make it work by default?
15:01*clock just found out when he moves .asoundrc to .asoundrc.bak, it starts working - but can this break something else?
15:01<valdyn>clock: you made that asoundrc
15:02<clock>valdyn, either made or copied from somewhere, I don't remember anymore
15:02<valdyn>clock: you did set dmix as default device in order to be able to playback from multiple programs at a time
15:02<clock>I remember I had some sound problems long time ago, perhaps with skype and firefox together
15:03<clock>valdyn, yes, this is probably!
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15:03<TCW>but dmix is default in debian, isn't it?
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15:03<valdyn>clock: try playing from multiple programs now
15:04<clock>valdyn, do I have to restart computer before I try?
15:04<valdyn>clock: no
15:04<clock>and close the programs first?
15:04<valdyn>clock: better, yes, i dont actually know that
15:04*clock closes them
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15:05<clock>Now I have two grey Skypes that I cannot close
15:05<koljan>where to get libgl1-nvidia-alternatives for legacy 173xx ?
15:05<valdyn>clock: run "killall skype"
15:06<clock>Oh I managed to close them with 'Quit'
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15:06<clock>valdyn, thanks - I forgot that [X] on Skype does only minimize
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15:07<clock>Hmm, Skype doesn't make test sound anymore
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15:07<valdyn>clock: you need to put back dmix, and you need to adjust that config to not use dmix for recording
15:07<clock>valdyn, should I try all 13 output devices in Skype
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15:07<valdyn>clock: 13? that many?
15:07<clock>Though I have only 1 sound card!
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15:08<Guest694>o jebo ti bogo maajku
15:08<valdyn>clock: maybe you already have a hardware mixing output device then
15:08<Guest694>šta mi menjaš ime jebem ti oca
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15:09<clock>valdyn, you know how I disable dmix for recording in asoundrc?
15:09<valdyn>clock: yea, its on google
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15:10<valdyn>clock: put your asoundrc on a paste site so i can edit..
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15:11<bremner>I have "kvm: disabled by bios" when trying to modprobe kvm_intel, even though vmx shows up in /proc/cpuinfo. This is squeeze, on a dell poweredge R510. Of course I'd rather it wasn't really the BIOS cuz I have no physical access to the machine until monday.
15:12<valdyn>bremner: you have no reason to doubt that message
15:12<bremner>bummer, ok, thanks
15:12<bremner>so the flag in /proc/cpuinfo is not enough
15:13<clock>valdyn, In the alsa doc I found only how to set default playback device:
15:13<valdyn>bremner: its from a list of flags, not from probing capabilities anyway
15:13<valdyn>clock: sure, alsa documentation is lame, even its configuration system is lame
15:13<clock>valdyn, yes, starting to get the same impression :)
15:14<valdyn>clock: look at "Setting the default Microphone/Capture Device"
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15:15<valdyn>clock: you also dont need the pcm.usb section, you can just use capture.pcm "hw:0,0" at that point
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15:15<clock>valdyn, thanks :)
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15:16<valdyn>now if flash supported pulseaudio id tell you to just use that, because its much more convenient
15:16<clock>valdyn, should I change type plug to type asym, or leave both lines there?
15:16<Black_Prince>flash supports pulseaudio ...
15:16<Black_Prince>you just have to route alsa through it ... heh
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15:17<valdyn>Black_Prince: yea i know, thats not much better than what hes doing right now, starting at where hes starting
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15:17<valdyn>clock: try it as its there
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15:20<clock>valdyn, so I copied the section pcm.!default and just changed "usb" to "hw:0,0" - hope I understood you right
15:20<valdyn>clock: yea
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15:23<clock>valdyn, wow, works! Thanks!
15:25<clock>valdyn, I wrote a realtime sound analyzer that is sometimes more sensitive than human ear, and one can see if singer has the right tuning and if he's singing the tones cleanly
15:25-!-MAXmark [] has joined #debian
15:25<clock>valdyn, I want to publish it under GPL, it works on my laptop, but it fails on my desktop PC
15:26<clock>I think it would be good to make it work at least on my desktop PC before releasing it as "portable software", LOL
15:27<netinstall>is there a way to install java runtime environment on debian through command line?
15:27<dselect>Java is a cross-platform C++-like OO language. Sun, now Oracle, has released most of its Java implementation under the GPL as <openjdk>. There are other implementations packaged for Debian, Sun's JRE/JDK is in <non-free> (for i386, amd64 only). Ask me about <install java>. See also <java alternatives>, <icedtea>, <java ipv6>. ##java on
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15:28<Black_Prince>for free java runtime environment install package openjdk-6-jre and for non free java runtime environent install package sun-java6-jre (requires non-free repo to be enabled)
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15:47<EmleyMoor>What's the correct way to copy a qemu disk image, if, say, I want to create a new virtual machine from the same point as an existing one?
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15:49<daemonkeeper>cp? You can also use more sophisticated approaches like cow.
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15:51<EmleyMoor>cp gives me a disk with errors
15:52*EmleyMoor double-checks something...
15:52<EmleyMoor>Nothing wrong with the original...
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15:53<Bushmills>hm - i thought qemu-img had a "clone" command but i must be mistaken
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15:56<daemonkeeper>EmleyMoor: Do you use full disk images or sparse images?
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15:57<EmleyMoor>daemonkeeper: Er, "raw"... which would be which?
15:57<daemonkeeper>Full I guess
15:57<mkad>Hi, I need help with setting up VPNC in gnome3 where I can look for such a help ?
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15:58<EmleyMoor>daemonkeeper: If you mean are the holes there or left out, left out
15:58<daemonkeeper>Is dd more successful?
15:59<EmleyMoor>I'll try that...
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16:02<diederik>Hi, I want to play/experiment with preseed/debconf and am wondering if there's a (GUI) tool to configure a debconf/preseed file
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16:04<diederik>for example, is debconf-kde-helper a package to make a debconf file or is it just kde-specific dialogs for debconf (in a running system)?
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16:12<diederik>Another related question: when I do debconf-get-selections I get a text file, but the order of the entries seems random to me. Can I rearrange that so it makes more sense (to me), or will that mess debconf up?
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16:17<wintellect>Anyone use debian on an aceraspireone?
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16:19<nyov>Anyone has left already
16:20<diederik>What about Elvis?
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16:22<clock>How can I reduce the latency of the "arecord" command?
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16:29<PCChris>I have a little bit of a problem (more of an inconvenience): sometimes I accidentally switch off the wireless on my laptop (it's switched by a key as opposed to a switch) and I don't know that it's off when I do this. *However*, it causes problems when I boot Debian and I can't boot normally except into recovery/maintenance mode until I turn the wireless back on...I think it breaks something with HAL. Is there a way to not have wirel
16:29<PCChris>ess being disabled break Debian boot?
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16:31<dvs>PCChris: Is your wireless configures in your /etc/network/interfaces file?
16:31<PCChris>dvs, it is managed by NetworkManager (I use nm-applet)
16:31<dvs>ah, ok, nvm
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16:33<PCChris>dvs, do you think it would be possible for the interfaces file to affect things at boot time still before NetworkManager has started? There's no line in it for my wireless though, so it doesn't seem like it could be breaking it.
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16:34<dvs>PCChris: I was going to suggest that you change the "auto" clause for the wireless interface to "allow-hotplug" but since it isn't there, it can't be done.
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16:41<clock>Now my mplayer doesn't work anymore
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16:41<clock>Would it be possible that mplayer AND firefox AND skype AND arecord work at the same time?
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16:42<clock>And not mplayer and firefox and skype, or firefox and skype and arecord
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16:44<Bushmills>mplayer yes. firefox with flash, no - not when it's using OSS which flash does. skype may have alsa support by now. with OSS enabled, same problem as with flash
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16:45<valdyn>clock: you can have them all work at a time
16:45<Bushmills>player you'd set up to use alsa, or start -ao alsa
16:45<Bushmills>mplayer ...
16:46<valdyn>clock: there might be ~/.mplayer/config set to oss at this time
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16:49<valdyn>Bushmills: flash uses alsa
16:50<valdyn>Bushmills: or its probably still configurable
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16:52<valdyn>clock: you kind of cant use arecord and skype at the same time, that is you cannot talk to someone when arecord is running
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16:54<clock>valdyn, ah thanks!
16:54<valdyn>clock: if you need that or even more complex stuff i would recommend you redo the whole setup with pulseaudio
16:54<clock>valdyn, isnt it possible that the recorded data get copied to both applications?
16:54<Bushmills>valdyn: it does by now? that's some improvement :)
16:54<clock>valdyn, do you think is OK when I publish my program and it relies on arecord and mplayer?
16:55<valdyn>Bushmills: it always worked fine with LD_PRELOAD anyway
16:55<valdyn>clock: no
16:55<valdyn>clock: it should hook into a common sound framework like gstreamer
16:56<valdyn>clock: or alternatively theres libao
16:56<clock>valdyn, its a script
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16:56<valdyn>clock: these are sound libraries that allow distros or user to plug everything together in any way they please
16:56<clock>valdyn, now it can also analyze music videos directly
16:56<valdyn>clock: gstreamer is scriptable
16:56<clock>because it starts with mplayer -ao null
16:57<clock>with gstreamer this is possible?
16:57<valdyn>clock: in gstreamer sound can be plugged like you do pipes in shell scripts
16:57<clock>valdyn, my program takes PCM data but at unusual sampling rate that it dictates
16:58<clock>like 63.451 kHz
16:58<clock>depending on the analysis parameters
16:58<clock>this is possible too?
16:58<valdyn>clock: i dont know details sorry
16:58<clock>now I do it with sox :)
16:58<clock>and pray they don't have the polyphase filter as buggy as in mplayer :)
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16:59<valdyn>clock: personally i think mplayer should stay alone, its an ugly monolith
16:59<valdyn>clock: but im sure it has more features than gstreamer
17:00<netinstall>I have never had skype work with alsa - always had to install pulseaudio with it
17:00<jerryclunsford>I know this is a stupid question but what switch can you use to view a directory page by page if it is too large to fit on the screen.
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17:00<netinstall>did you have any luck with alsa alone?
17:00<valdyn>netinstall: it used to have problems with dmix, but it worked with alsa
17:00<jerryclunsford>I'll give it a try
17:01<jerryclunsford>nope -p no go.
17:01<valdyn>netinstall: yea, 100% cpu usage
17:01<clock>valdyn, I need the mplayer anyway, because I need to visualise the video stream the analyzer produces
17:01<clock>at variable speeds
17:01<valdyn>clock: I see
17:01<clock>because some songs have wrong tuning
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17:01<PCChris>jerryclunsford, "ls -al | less"
17:01<clock>like Kim Wilde Kids in America is 1/3 halftone too high
17:02<valdyn>netinstall: either way pulseaudio is superior as your frontend towards apps
17:02<clock>then playing at non-unity speed fixes the tuning
17:02<clock>or Yellow Submarine
17:02<jerryclunsford>PCChris: Thanks
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17:03<valdyn>clock: have you found a minitor device like thing that you can use to monitor a sound channel with your tool?
17:03-!-netinstall [] has joined #debian
17:03<valdyn>clock: s/minitor/monitor/
17:03<valdyn>clock: or do you just record and use pipes?
17:03<netinstall>man, chrome crashed on me
17:04<clock>valdyn, what u mean?
17:04<netinstall>sorry about missing than interesting bit there - but do you mean to say I don't need to install pulseaudio for skype?
17:04<valdyn>clock: where does your graphing tool get its sound data?
17:04<valdyn>netinstall: no, i mean if you already have pa, keep it, its the best
17:04<clock>valdyn, either from soundcard and then it shows realtime
17:04<clock>or you give it an mp3 or music video
17:04<clock>or stream URL
17:05<netinstall>I don't have anything right now... I started from scratch..
17:05<valdyn>netinstall: i see
17:05<valdyn>netinstall: in that case "start-pulseaudio-x11" and go one by one setting apps to use pa
17:06<netinstall>I am installing pulseaudio now and caught your convo and stopped in my tracks (I am now at the "do you want to continue") stage for pulseaudio and my fingers are hovering as I see this
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17:06<netinstall>wait - start-pulseaudio-X11 for aptitude install pulseaudio?
17:06<valdyn>netinstall: no, after you installed it thats how you start it
17:07<netinstall>what I mean is should I continue with the aptitude-install
17:07<netinstall>ah okay
17:07<netinstall>installing then
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17:08<netinstall>what was the answer to viewing terminal contents page by page /p?
17:08<valdyn>netinstall: less? more?
17:08<netinstall>is that right
17:08<daemonkeeper>Why not?
17:09<valdyn>netinstall: both are programs to view text page by page
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17:09<clock>LOL mplayer is such shit
17:09<ZykoticK9_>netinstall, as example "ls | less"
17:09<netinstall>oh wow - didn't realize they are programs to do that single function
17:09<valdyn>netinstall: developers humour ( the naming )
17:09<clock>When I play flash video normally, plays whole OK
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17:09<clock>when I do -vc null -vo null -ao pc:file=/dev/stdout > a, then it produces 64k of data and ends
17:10<netinstall>why not use vlc?
17:10<netinstall>why mplayer?
17:10<lindi->clock: pc?
17:10<clock>lindi-, pcm, sorry typo
17:10<clock>with .avi works OK
17:11<clock>with multiple .flv the same problem
17:11<lindi->clock: does it work without use of stdout?
17:11-!-vex [] has joined #debian
17:11<clock>lindi-, u mean specifying filename directly?
17:11-!-vex [] has quit []
17:11<lindi->clock: yes
17:11<netinstall>so one more question. I havent installed alsa yet. should I do that before installing pulseaudio or will aptitude take care of it for me?
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17:11<clock>lindi-, no doesnt work, cuts at the same size
17:12<netinstall>and I can directly tell it to install pulseaudio?
17:12<netinstall>I have heard that pulseaudio does not work without the alsa base
17:12<ZykoticK9_>clock, i'd try without that -vc as well like "mplayer -vo null -ao pcm foo.flv"
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17:13<clock>taking -vc null out doesn't help
17:13<lindi->clock: possibly a bug then. please report :)
17:13<lindi->clock: along with a file that reproduces the problem, if you cc me I can test too
17:14-!-wolf [] has quit []
17:14<clock>Ah sorry, taking out -vc null helps
17:14-!-jhutchins_lt [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:14<clock>But I need -vc null
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17:14<clock>otherwise mplayer cannot play audio from mpeg4 video which need too much CPU to decode the video part
17:15<ZykoticK9_>clock, "..-vo null.." mean no video output already - why would you need to put a codec choice if you aren't using video?
17:15<netinstall>From what I understand pulseaudio and alsa are both sound drivers for the system, yes? So why does pulseaudio need alsa?
17:15<lindi->netinstall: no
17:15<ZykoticK9_>netinstall, Pulse is a sound daemon, NOT a driver
17:15<clock>ZykoticK9_, because mplayer cannot make it then
17:16<lindi->clock: too slow computer?
17:16<netinstall>So alsa is a driver but pulse uses alsa....
17:16<ZykoticK9_>clock, interesting... good luck.
17:16-!-mike [] has joined #debian
17:16<ZykoticK9_>netinstall, correct
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17:17<clock>LOL, cannot reproduce anymore
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17:17<clock>Debian improved in the meantime so much that the HD MPEG4 decodes on my machine
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17:19<netinstall>which brings me to the original questions. Alsa base is not installed on my system. Would it be okay if I do aptitude install pulseaudio without installing any alsa and hope that aptitude will install the required alsa components for pulse audio to work for me? Or should I be installing alsa components first? if so, which alsa packages does pulse audio need?
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17:19<ZykoticK9_>netinstall, installing Pulse "should" bring in anything it needs
17:19<randomdude>Hello. I wish to run Debian on my new laptop, but I am confuset which one do I download? It has a new sandy bridge intel processor.
17:21<netinstall>the reason I am asking is that I don't see any alsa-named packages under the list list that says "the following new packages" will be installed
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17:21<randomdude>ia64 or i386? what is kfreebsd-i386?
17:21<clock>ZykoticK9_, but thanks for tip, it solved :)
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17:21<netinstall>it does list something called gnome-audio... which is kind of disturbing because I don't want any gnome on my system
17:22<witte>randomdude: you don't want ia64, and you probably don't want kfreebsd-i386
17:22<ZykoticK9_>clock, i REALLY didn't like your statement when you join :|
17:23<witte>randomdude: you might want a amd64 instead of an i386, but I am not sure about that (I am not following the processors as I did before)
17:23<witte>are the bots down?
17:24<randomdude> 386 is the one for me? Isn't that 32 bit? I have a 64 bit processor, and would like to get the most out of it...
17:25<ZykoticK9_>witte, dselect seems to be working, not sure how to post to the channel with dselect but /msg is working
17:25<witte>dselect, ia64
17:25<dselect>Intel Architecture-64 (IA-64) is a 64-bit processor architecture developed in cooperation by Intel and Hewlett-Packard, implemented by processors such as <Itanium> and Itanium 2. The goal of Itanium was to produce a "post-RISC era" arch using EPIC. See -- if your CPU is opteron/athlon64/turion/sempron/xeon/em64t/pentium/core2duo/core*, then it is NOT ia64, it's <amd64>.
17:25<witte>dselect, amd64
17:25<dselect>amd64 is the Debian architecture optimized for x86-64, aka AMD64. Consider using Debian i386 on x86-64 machines if you do not have a good reason to use Debian amd64. The AMD64 architecture also supports running i386 Debian with either a -686 or -amd64 kernel. core2duo machines are AMD64. See and the #debian-amd64 IRC channel on OFTC and freenode. See also <why amd64>.
17:26<witte>randomdude: read the two text that the bot dselect gave
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17:26<witte>ZykoticK9_: thanks ;-)
17:26<ZykoticK9_>witte, and thank you - now i know how to post to channel with dselect ;)
17:27<witte>dselect, tell ZykoticK9_ about beer
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17:28<witte>ZykoticK9_: I did that using "dselect, tell ZykoticK9_ about beer" ;-)
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17:37<clock>valdyn, after I changed the .asoundrc according to your reccomendation, playing music with mplayer doesn't work anymore :(
17:37<clock>valdyn, I don't have anything in mplayer config file
17:37<valdyn>clock: mplayer -ao alsa some.file
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17:38<valdyn>clock: anyway, what works? do your different programs output sound properly?
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17:40<clock>valdyn, I am not using my program at all
17:40<clock>Firefox and Skype works, mplayer not
17:40<valdyn>clock: tried -ao alsa ? does that work?
17:40<clock>valdyn, I removed .asoundrc temporarily
17:40<clock>I want to put it back
17:40<clock>But I can't find it anymore...
17:41-!-nhr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:41<clock>I made a copy .asoundrc.bak and
17:41-!-kuhkatz [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:41<clock>now scan my whole /home dir and cannot find anymore :(
17:41-!-maxit0r [~slayer@] has joined #debian
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17:41<valdyn>clock: find ~/ -name ".as*"
17:42<clock>valdyn, nothing - I have to make it again
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17:43-!-m] is now known as [m]
17:43<clock>hm now I can't find the URL anymore, xchat log too short :(
17:44-!-[m] [~slayer@] has quit []
17:44*clock googles for asoundrc recording dmix microphone but doesn't find anything
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17:47<clock>valdyn, -ao alsa doesn't help
17:48<clock>but quitting firefox helps
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17:48<clock>if I play mplayer with Skype and do test sound in Skype, mplayer stops playing
17:48<clock>Skype makes test sound
17:48<clock>and then mplayer DOESN'T RESUME playing
17:49*clock wonders how many failure modes Linux is able to present, which all have to be tested by the user
17:49<valdyn>clock: skype can be configured to use various output devices, you need to set it to your dmix device
17:49<valdyn>clock: mplayer should use the right one by default
17:50<clock>when I start firefox and youtube, mplayer stops as well
17:50<valdyn>clock: adobe flash is configurable too
17:50<clock>valdyn, Skype uses device "dmixer (dmix)"
17:50<valdyn>clock: ok
17:51<clock>valdyn, can I tell mplayer to use dmix?
17:51<clock>-ao dmix and -ao dmixer both throw error message
17:51<valdyn>clock: that is not valid options
17:51<valdyn>clock: and -ao alsa will select the !default device so that is ok
17:52<clock>Why doesn't this all work out of the box?
17:52<clock>I installed both mplayer and firefox from debian package
17:52<clock>official one
17:52<valdyn>clock: because no one sets this up properly in debian or for debian
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17:53<cybersphinx>In theory, the alsa "default" device should use dmix already. Doesn't seem to work on some systems in practice, though. It might be an alsa configuration bug.
17:53<netinstall>is there any lighter alternative to gdebi?
17:54<netinstall>to install .deb packages
17:54<clock>I don't expect ordinary user if he wants to run skype and youtube together
17:54<cybersphinx>netinstall: dpkg?
17:54<MadGirl>i heard dpkg was still depressed :(
17:54<clock>to make so much effort
17:54<witte>netinstall: what are you trying to do?
17:55<clock>I am afraid he will think "oh this Linux can't play from two programs at a time - let's go back to Windows"
17:55<dang6>Is there a way to avoid using any non-free pkgs during a netinstall?
17:55<netinstall>I am trying to make sure that I can install a .deb package like skype using a package installer. I used gdebi before but it has a 1001 dependencies that comes along with it
17:55<valdyn>clock: thats ok, debian isnt really for that type of user
17:55*cybersphinx uses alsa usually, where all programs using the default device can share it without problems.
17:55<clock>valdyn, ubuntu?
17:56<witte>netinstall: use dpkg -i
17:56-!-adi [~adi@2001:470:b471:0:442a:9b71:5496:f2] has joined #debian
17:56<cybersphinx>There's one use for pulseaudio, and that's a bluetooth headset that isn't always present.
17:56<valdyn>clock: ubuntu is marketed for consumers
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17:56<netinstall>thanks.. witte
17:56<witte>netinstall: and the dependencies you can usually install easily using aptitude or apt-get
17:56<clock>valdyn, on ubuntu, scanners don't work
17:56<valdyn>clock: debian is by volunteer developers for themselves ( at least to a large extent )
17:57<witte>usually they give a single line which you just need to past in your command window...
17:57<netinstall>I already have aptitude and apt-get so that makes sense...
17:57<witte>dselect, skype
17:57<dselect>Skype is a proprietary cross-platform <VoIP> program which Debian cannot distribute due to its restrictive license. Packages are available from or use the sources.list line "deb stable non-free". Not supported in #debian, consider using <ekiga>, <linphone> or <pidgin> instead.
17:57<witte>netinstall: use the last link of the thing dselect said...
17:57<valdyn>clock: iceweasel / firefox have rather lame sound support, its configured in /etc/iceweasel/iceweaselrc
17:58<valdyn>clock: i have no idea what your "auto" there in that file sets it to
17:58<clock>valdyn, lol :)
17:58<valdyn>clock: and in conjunction with alsa it might just block your microphone for no reason
17:58<clock>I don't think ekiga linphone or pidgin is an alternative to skype
17:58<clock>SIP and Skype protocols are incompatible
17:58<clock>valdyn, hm but my mplayer doesn't play through microphone
17:59<witte>clock: they are alternatives, they are indeed not compatible
17:59<clock>valdyn, ICEWEASEL_DSP="none"
17:59<valdyn>clock: try "auto"
17:59<netinstall>nice thanks
18:00<clock>I think the first thing an ordinary user does after installing Linux
18:00<valdyn>clock: but maybe thats irrelevant with adobe flash now, i cant tell
18:00<clock>is to install skype and flash
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18:00<clock>I would like Debian to have some script that downloads and installs skype
18:00<valdyn>clock: is the debian package on not good enough?
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18:01<netinstall>I am pretty ordinary. I skip the flash though. Chrome comes with flash somehow
18:01<clock>valdyn, well, it's extra effort to download and install
18:01-!-akerl [~Les@2600:3c03::13:6000] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:01<valdyn>clock: perfectly reasonable
18:01<witte>clock: skype is a proprietary piece of software, it cannot be in Debian
18:01<clock>It could ask during install "do you want to install skype and flash?"
18:02<valdyn>clock: its also crapware, i would be glad if one wouldnt need it
18:02<witte>clock: it is also a piece of shit
18:02<netinstall>clock: I saw this:
18:02<clock>Yes it's crapware
18:02<clock>but many people want it
18:02<valdyn>netinstall: theres a 64bit version from now, im not sure if any howto should be needed
18:02<netinstall>well there aren't any alternatives is there?
18:02<netinstall>ekiga has been abandoned since 2009
18:02<netinstall>and debian is still recommending it
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18:03<witte>netinstall: there are several, but they are not very popular, thus not very usefull...
18:03<netinstall>(well 2010]
18:03<netinstall>could you please name some?
18:03<netinstall>I can force my folks to use them then
18:03<lindi->netinstall: google talk might be an option
18:03<netinstall>and don't have to struggle with skype all the time
18:03<clock>netinstall, interesting link thanks
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18:03<clock>Well I got very disappointed with all SIP phones
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18:04<clock>I tried all softphones on linux
18:04-!-n0x [] has joined #debian
18:04<clock>plus some hardware phones
18:04<lindi->clock: SIP does not really work very well in modern internet
18:04<valdyn>netinstall: jitsi supports debian
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18:04<valdyn>netinstall: however since nothing is compatible with skype, whats the use..
18:04<witte>netinstall: ekiga is one (although not great), google talk should work as well, Pidgin can do it nowadays also I think, linphone,...
18:04<clock>lindi-, exactly, I would almost say in my experience Skype is more reliable in SIP
18:04<clock>We have SIP phones in the work
18:04<clock>And they are just unpredictable
18:04<lindi->clock: I haven't tried skype :)
18:04<lindi->clock: but I agree that SIP is not very nice for talking to friends
18:04<netinstall>so google talk in itself doesn't have video
18:04<valdyn>lindi-: why wouldnt it work well?
18:05<clock>I need Skype
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18:05<netinstall> and my folks think something is wrong with me if I don't turn on video
18:05<clock>I am looking for a boyfriend and is difficult for me to find one
18:05<lindi->valdyn: cause it does not work from wlans where you have only http proxy
18:05<clock>If a potential boyfriend asks me for skype and I start explaining details of Debian licencing policy
18:05-!-vrayden [~ray@] has joined #debian
18:05<netinstall>and of course my mum needs to point out how thin I am getting like all the time - there's nothing else to talk about
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18:06<clock>I am afraid I will never find one
18:06<netinstall>So I need to install the google talk video plugin which is extremely slow and hangs in mid video
18:06<lindi->netinstall: no
18:06<lindi->netinstall: google talk video plugin is non-free afaik. I'm not recommending that :)
18:06<witte>netinstall: you can just install skype
18:06<witte>it is a piece of shit, but it works
18:06<clock>yes it does :)
18:06<clock>Sometimes it fails to auto-login
18:06<lindi->netinstall: but afaik empathy in debian should support google talk
18:07<netinstall>unfortunately jitsi is also a joke. some of its deb packages don't even install properly...
18:07<clock>netinstall, :D
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18:08<clock>How to run Skype Firefox mplayer and arecord at the same time:
18:08<clock>1) buy 4 PCs
18:08<clock>2) install Linux on all of them
18:08<clock>3) Run each program on separate PC
18:09<netinstall>and you see its a problem because my folks are on windows (I can never in good conscience recommend linux with all the eccentricities) so its back to omg skype is a piece of shit but its probably the only workable solution right now. I hope google video gets a ton of bandwidth from somewhere and become better and free soon..
18:09-!-akerl [~Les@2600:3c03::13:6000] has joined #debian
18:09<witte>netinstall: my parents and my girlfriend use linux, and they are really not advanced users at all
18:09<witte>they also both use skype on linux
18:10<Nemoder>for just voice I find Mumble to be the best option
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18:10<lindi->Nemoder: you are probably thinking of a different scenario then
18:11<clock>valdyn, tried auto in iceweaselrc and result is the same
18:11<Nemoder>likely, it's not a good phone/messenger app but for just voice communication it's great
18:11<clock>mplayer gets interrupted
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18:12<lindi->Nemoder: it works for some conference call probably but how do you call people who you don't necessarily know in advance? there's no directory or anything?
18:12<clock>but hey
18:12<Nemoder>you don't call people on it, everyone who wants to chat connects to a server
18:12<clock>this is not critical
18:12<clock>as long as I can run Skype with Firefox is OK
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18:13<lindi->Nemoder: but a single server does not scale
18:13<clock>No potential boyfriend will ask me to run mplayer or arecord
18:13*clock is amazed into what state of crappiness the mankind managed to get the communication technology
18:14<Nemoder>lindi-: no but how could you have a conversation with hundreds of people at once anyway?
18:14<lindi->Nemoder: not at the same time no but how do you receive calls?
18:14<Nemoder>again it's not a messenger app
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18:14<netinstall>so clock, everyone, how on earth does everything run on windows
18:14<lindi->Nemoder: so you need to send email and ask the other party to connect to some specific server for the duration of the call?
18:15<Nemoder>lindi-: yes
18:15<lindi->Nemoder: which means basically manual call setup
18:15<Nemoder>lindi-: it's not a way to contact people, just a way to do voicechat online
18:15<clock>netinstall, does it run on windows?
18:15<clock>In Thailand I was in Internet cafe
18:15<clock>they had Windows and Skype
18:15<clock>and the sound didn't work at all
18:16<netinstall>of course
18:16<clock>They were unable to fix it when we called the supervision guy
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18:16<netinstall>I bet all of your 4 proggies run simultaneously on windows
18:16<jaimesilva>I have noticed that console configuration is lost on 2.6.38 when DRM loads radeon and on 2.6.39 screen goes blank all 'cause it conflicts with vesafb. How can I avoid vesafb at startup and load radeon fb driver instead?
18:16<clock>netinstall, I can imagine that well
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18:17<clock>On the university they told us "operating system kernel is a program that virtualizes hardware for programs running on the computer"
18:17<clock>So why Linux kernel doesn't virtualize sound card?
18:18<clock>If only one program can use the sound card at the time, why bothering allowing multiple programs use the hard disk concurrently?
18:18<witte>clock: it's your configuration, not linux in general
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18:18<clock>witte, it's linux, they didn't put sound card virtualization into kernel, I find that stupid
18:18<witte>i guess you are just nagging too hard to make anyone willing to help
18:19<clock>It's against philoswophy of OS
18:19<lindi->clock: it doesn't need to be in the kernel
18:19<funkyHat>Nagging. That's a diplomatic term for it ⢁D
18:19<lindi->clock: if it was in kernel it'd be even more difficult to debug for you
18:20<Nemoder>if your soundcard driver doesn't allow multiple channels then get a new soundcard or run a sound server
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18:21<clock>lindi-, yes definitely
18:21<Nemoder>or even try a different driver, I switched from alsa to oss4 and it's worked much better for me
18:21<clock>so is there anything I can do?
18:22<clock>I changed my .asoundrc
18:22<clock>tried changing iceweaselrc
18:22<jaimesilva>on Debian's Linux 2.6.39 images is fbcon compiled in the kernel instead of as a module?
18:22<funkyHat>Tried pulseaudio?
18:23<lindi->clock: I can't really comment since I can't test skype :)
18:23<clock>lindi-, it has nothing to do with skype
18:24<lindi->clock: oh?
18:24<clock>Now I tried redirecting mplayer to dmix according to
18:24<clock>Didn't help either
18:24<lindi->clock: at least here with pulseaudio I can use multiple mplayer instances just fine
18:24<lindi->clock: and get individual volume controls too
18:25<clock>multiple mplayers work for me too
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18:26<clock>multiple mplayers work even when I completely remove .asoundrc
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18:26<lindi->clock: so only skype and adobe flash plugin cause trouble?
18:26<clock>I can run three mplayer at the same time without .asoundrc
18:27<clock>lindi-, and I also want arecord to work
18:27<lindi->clock: mplayer and arecord at the same time?
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18:27<nevyn>so ootb on debian you get dmix
18:27<clock>lindi-, no
18:27<nevyn>but it doesn't work with flash.
18:28<nevyn>flash still opens plughw:0 which is exclusive
18:28<clock>nevyn, do you mean that flash opens alsa directly, blocking dmix?
18:28<clock>nevyn, is there a way how to tell flash use dmix?
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18:29<nevyn>you could try configuring pcm.!default in asoundrc to point at dmix and see if it opens default but I bet it doesn't
18:29<adamkex>can anybody help me enable xv accelaration with the mach64/ati driver?
18:29-!-abrotman [] has joined #debian
18:30<clock>I found a forum where they say flash open OSS which blocks /dev/dsp
18:30-!-Xinfinity [] has joined #debian
18:30<clock>And that I should blacklist snd-pcm-oss
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18:30<clock>is this change OK to do on Debian?
18:31<clock>oh I don't have /etc/rc.conf - the guide is for Arch Linux :(
18:31<adamkex>nevyn: yeah
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18:31<jaimesilva>does anyone knows how to make Debian use radeondrmfb + fbcon instead of vesafb at boot?
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18:33<LulzSec_GhostMan>onde fazer download debian?
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18:33<clock>nevyn, pcm.!default points already at dmix
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18:34<Ghostman>where I do download debian?
18:34<adamkex>nevyn: some people still have old hardware
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18:36<nevyn>adamkex: so what makes you think XV isn't accelerated now?
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18:37<netinstall>is it worth installing vlc with 95 megs of dependencies?
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18:38<netinstall>clock - if you find a solution could you please post it somewhere prominent for eg, the debian forums as a howto perhaps?
18:38<clock>nevyn, I found out the problem is caused by the change valdyn recommended me
18:38<adamkex>nevyn: vlc and mplayer crash
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18:39<nevyn>clock: awesome
18:39<adamkex>nevyn: and complain about that there is no available xvideo adaptor
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18:39<jaimesilva>is there a debian video related channel?
18:39<clock>nevyn, so how can I do valdyn's change without breaking concurrent playback of mplayer and flash?
18:40<clock>my original .asoundrc where Skype, Firefox and mplayer and combinations thereof work, but not arecord:
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18:41<clock>my new .asoundrc according to valdyn, where skype and fierfox and arecord work, but not mplayer:
18:41<netinstall>clock does firefox mean flash in this case?
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18:41<clock>netinstall, yes flash
18:42<netinstall>And arecord is needed for the mic on skype correct?
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18:42<netinstall>what is it then?
18:42<nevyn>skype uses pulse quite nicely for me
18:42<clock>it's a program
18:43<clock>for recording sound
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18:43<clock>from the "alsa-utils" official built-in Debian package
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18:43<clock>arecord, aplay - command-line sound recorder and player for ALSA sound‐
18:43<clock> card driver
18:44<adamkex>nevyn: if you want to help me i can send you the xorg.conf, but i don't think that it is faulty
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18:44<nevyn>adamkex: it's been ages since I've had that hardware.
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18:45<nevyn>clock: what are you using arecord for?
18:46<clock>So what I want is arecord, mplayer, skype and flash to work concurrently, in any combinations thereof, in any limited or unlimited, imaginable or unimaginable sequence of operations, after every boot, without any manual intervention ito any configurable files
18:46<clock>nevyn, recording sound
18:46<adamkex>nevyn: ok
18:46<Ghostman>debian is DVD Or CD?
18:46<nevyn>Ghostman: yes
18:46<Ghostman>where do I download
18:47<robinetd>This is the third time you've asked that.
18:47<nevyn>Ghostman: you can just install a minimal netinst cd then download the remaining components over the netowork or you can download full dvd or cd sets
18:48<Ghostman>I intend to make a cache server
18:48<Bushmills>Ghostman: debian is linux distribution
18:48<gkaklas>robinetd, the other 2 were in another channel
18:48<Ghostman> what is the best?
18:48<clock>Ghostman, I would recommend netinst, for me less fuss
18:48<gkaklas>i would also recommend netinst
18:49<nevyn>netinst gets you to a shell then you install the additional required software using the package managemnet system
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18:49<clock>But I admit, my knowledge doesn't reach so far to know what 'cache server' is, maybe that requires a DVD or CD
18:49*grove usually prefers netinst too
18:49<nevyn>clock: squid
18:49<gkaklas>Ghostman, you can write the image in a cd, if i am not wrong - the image is quite small
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18:50<clock>nevyn, I use arrecord as a simple program to record from sound card in PCM format to feed my sound analyzer in realtime
18:50<nevyn>Ghostman: you want to build a web caching server ?
18:50<grove>You can also install a graphical desktop environment from the installer when doing a netinst
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18:51<clock>Ghostman, and don't forget md5, to me happened that Firefox downloaded the .iso persistently wrong, whereas another browser downloaded it right
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20:14<dang6>Is there a way to avoid using any non-free pkgs during a netinstall?
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20:15<daemonkeeper>Why do you think, they would be included?
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20:15<dang6>I'm not sure why
20:16<daemonkeeper>They aren't
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20:16<dang6>I was doing a netinstall and the installer pulled in firmware-realtek
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20:17<daemonkeeper>Are you using the firmware image?
20:17<dang6>no; I manually removed it after the install was done
20:18<dang6>It was part of a bigger problem similar to bug 622839
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20:19<daemonkeeper>Squezee does not include this firmware, unless you were using the CD including firmware
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20:20<dvs>dang6: I'd check your /etc/apt/sources.list for "non-free"
20:21<dang6>I installed using
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20:22<dang6>everything was working well up to the point where I was installing the base system
20:22<dang6>the installer said that there were no suitable kernels available
20:23<dang6>so I had to alt+f2 to a term and chroot to into /target
20:23-!-vrayden [~ray@] has quit []
20:24<dang6>in the chroot /etc/apt/sources.list was a blank file, so I had to add an entry with main, contrib, and non-free
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20:24<dang6>then apt-get update, then apt-get install a kernel
20:24<daemonkeeper>Well ...
20:24<dang6>then alt-f1 back to the installer and continue
20:25<daemonkeeper>I'm not sure why you had the problem you mentioned, but you explained yourself where you pulled in non-free sources.
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20:26<dang6>before I chrooted and edited sources.list the package firmware-realtek was installed
20:27<clock>I "solved" the problem with sound by giving up
20:28<daemonkeeper>If you do have a network card requiring firmware, you aren't able to connect to the Internet without.
20:28<clock>Instead of publishing my program, I just uploaded it in the unprepared state and sent links to the guy who wanted it explaining that preparing it for release would be too much work
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20:34<dang6>daemonkeeper: if you're up for it, I pasted my installer syslog.
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20:37<dang6>daemonkeeper: somehow /cdrom/firmware/firmware-realtek_0.28_all.deb appears, even though the installer shouldn't have non-free pkgs
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20:42<fcr>hmm, does someone know what happened to the snes9x-gtk package?
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20:49<gsimmons>dselect: dbugs 617588
20:49<dselect>DONE:#617588:N[] RM: snes9x -- RoQA; orphaned, dead upstream, low popcon (moreinfo); Wed, 09 Mar 2011 20:39:05 UTC []
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21:02<jaimesilva>how can I setup my system to use fbcon instead of vesafb at startup? I'm using grub2 to boot
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21:13<meridionaljet>Hello, I followed DebianWiki instructions to enable my wireless internet by installing the firmware-brcm80211 package, which supports my broadcom BCM43224 wireless controller. This package makes my system unbootable, and I have to go into recovery to remove the package, at which point I can boot again. On a previous Squeeze installation this package enabled my wireless internet just fine.
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21:15<sney>meridionaljet: where does the boot halt and are there any interesting errors?
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21:17<meridionaljet>The first time this happened it always hung on starting gdm3, however, after uninstalling gnome, it hung at another random spot
21:17<meridionaljet>it's a kernel panic is what it is
21:17<meridionaljet>but I can't see it verbose
21:17<meridionaljet>When I load the module with modprobe it also freezes
21:17<sney>any chance you got a corrupt firmware package? try re-downloading it
21:17<meridionaljet>I've tried this on 2 installations before I realized I could fix my system by removing the package
21:17<meridionaljet>It's been redownloaded multiple times
21:18<sney>hmm. signs point to hardware problem, maybe
21:18<meridionaljet>This bug report looks similar
21:18<meridionaljet>but it was reported as fixed
21:18<meridionaljet>obviously it isn't
21:18<meridionaljet>I had it work once before on my very first Squeeze installation
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21:18<meridionaljet>this is now my 3rd
21:19<meridionaljet>All 3 have been installed within the last 2 weeks
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21:19<sney>hmm, that bug is filed against 2.6.32, maybe you would have better luck with 2.6.38 from backports
21:19<meridionaljet>Upgrading my kernel completely kills my graphics drivers, so that's not really an option
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21:20<meridionaljet>again, it worked with 2.6.32 before, the way I have my system now
21:22<sney>are you able to quantify any differences in your system between when it worked and when it stopped working? even ones you think may be irrelevant
21:22<meridionaljet>Not really. Since I've had to reinstall 3 times I have repeated the same procedures in the same order to get my system working
21:22<meridionaljet>Supposedly the broadcom-sta package supports my controller
21:22<meridionaljet>but after installing that package and rebooting I have no wireless
21:23<sney>then in that case - and I want you to understand that I'm just speaking from experience, and not trying to flame you - saying "it used to work" is a pretty useless thing to say.
21:23<meridionaljet>Actually it isn't, because it means the package isn't necessarily broken
21:23<meridionaljet>sometimes they are
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21:25<sney>is it a discrete NIC? can you re-seat it (remove and reconnect)?
21:25<sney>hi driver
21:26<driver>i'm a bit new to linux, and some conceptual things don't make sense. for example, how can /usr be shareable but /usr/local must have local files
21:26<driver>wouldnt each host need its own /usr/local copy?
21:27<meridionaljet>sney - no
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21:28<Nemoder>driver: generally /usr/local is for programs you want to share with all users but aren't provided by system packages
21:28<driver>i see, that makes sense
21:28<dselect>Debian follows the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard. The filesystem is categorized by purpose, not application. This allows, for example, the easy and efficient deployment of a read-only /usr area across a number of thin clients. See or install the 'debian-policy' package (/usr/share/doc/debian-policy/fhs/*), or, or "man hier".
21:29<driver>that's what i'm reading, dselect
21:29<SynrG>driver: FHS says "Locally installed software must be placed within /usr/local rather than /usr unless it is being installed to replace or upgrade software in /usr."
21:29<driver>must not have gotten that far
21:29<sney>I don't really grasp a lot of the more technical details of the fhs, and I do ok
21:30<SynrG>driver: i tend to not make much use of /usr/local except for a few trivial things (locally written convenience scripts) as i prefer to make local packages for things that are locally built.
21:30<SynrG>it keeps it all tidier and less prone to breakage
21:31<sney>also, the combination of stow + /usr/local is a great way to test higher versions of stuff from upstream without mangling apt
21:31<SynrG>admittedly, i might have a slightly warped perspective being a debian developer, but i think if you're a systems adminstrator, learning how to self-package self-built things is a useful skill to have.
21:32<abrotman>also take note of stow/checkinstall
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21:32<driver>yeah but wouldnt package still have to deploy someplace?
21:32<adamkex>how do i stop the debian netinst installer
21:33<SynrG>cancel whatever menu you are in back to the main menu
21:33<SynrG>select the option to exit the installer
21:34<adamkex>SynrG: there is no cancel button, isn't there a keyboard shortcut to stop and go to the menu?
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21:35<SynrG>adamkex: unfortunately i don't install quite often enough to have memorized it. <esc> key?
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21:35<adamkex>SynrG: no
21:35<SynrG>what screen are you on? what options are present?
21:36<adamkex>installing base system, i want it to stop and go back
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21:36<SynrG>in the middle of it? progress bar is running?
21:36<SynrG>i think if you ctrl-C here nothing disastrous will happen
21:36<adamkex>i want to repartition
21:37<ert>so I just installed debian on a micro SD card (haha, slow I know) and that problem I am facing is that I am getting periods where the window manager will not activate windows or anything for about 20s and then will return to normal snappiness. Anyone know of anything I can do to make it stay responsive?
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21:40<SynrG>adamkex: really? hmm. repeatedly pressing ctrl-C?
21:40<adamkex>SynrG: yes
21:40<coruja>adamkex, maybe just wait for the base install to finish (rather soon), then a cancel or back button should appear at the next step of the installer
21:40*SynrG nods
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21:41<SynrG>if you're really clever you could find the appropriate process and kill it :)
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21:41<SynrG>(don't try this at home, kids)
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21:41<coruja>a hard reset will also do, but then the installation must be started again ;)
21:41<adamkex>it doesn't even come with top
21:42<coruja>(which might be the faster alternative though)
21:42<nyov>ert: not sure if it helps much, but mount your root with options noatime,nodiratime
21:43<nyov>huh, i was late
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21:43<SynrG>noatime, not relatime?
21:43<SynrG>oh well, as you say, moot point
21:44<nyov>SynrG: hm, maybe that
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21:53<trifolio6>i have a problem, if i install nvidia-glx i must to uinstall kde but without nvidia-glx i cant use nvidia module and i dont have X
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21:56<sney>trifolio6: what debian version
21:57<trifolio6>i did aptitude dist-upgrade and i loosed the kernel nvidia made with m-a
21:57<sney>testing support goes to #debian-next
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21:57<trifolio6>ah, ok thx
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21:57<sney>currently nvidia and ati are both slightly broken because of the transition to multiarch support
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22:00<trifolio6>so i guess there is a lot of persons like me
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22:00<daneos>hey, do you know how to install icinga on vyatta router ?
22:01<sney>daneos: this is the support channel for the debian OS, general tech support is offtopic
22:02<daneos>ok, thx
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23:09<jaimesilva>I have already tried with video=radeon:modeset=1 and radeon.modeset=1 linux command line options but I always get vesafb loaded first, how can I force my 2.6.39-2 kernel to boot on KMS mode?
23:09<jaimesilva>I have also added the modules radeon depends on to the initramfs
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23:12<Guest742>don't know much about linux and maybe i'm wrong but, maybe adding vesafb module to blacklist could work?
23:13<jaimesilva>Guest742: The problem is that vesafb is no longer a module, it is compiled on kernel
23:13<jaimesilva>same as fbcon (it's counterpart)
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23:14<jaimesilva>and I'm trying to force linux to user fbcon + radeon instead of vesafb
23:14<Guest742>ok. didn't know
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23:20<jaimesilva>the problem being: When the radeon module is loaded conflicts with vesafb and the console goes blank in linux 2.6.39
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23:20<jaimesilva>I guess I'll have to go the other way and try to disable KMS (fbcon + radeon)
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---Logclosed Sun Jul 03 00:00:42 2011