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#debian IRC Logs for 2011-07-03

---Logopened Sun Jul 03 00:00:42 2011
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01:18<jyre>hi shagggy
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02:31<Obligatory>Q: is there some unofficial package with standard 'info' pages? (I'm running 'unstable')
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02:35<Obligatory>Is this mic on?
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02:41<sney>it's late
02:41<sney>seems like I'm the only helper on right now and I don't know
02:41<sney>so try again later
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03:18<chaos>is there a chntpw like tool to add / rename users?
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03:46<dutchfish>chaos, useradd -G root newuser
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03:46<chaos>thanks but chntpw pokes windows nt userdb
03:48<dutchfish>chaos, can you rephrase what you want? i gues i am missing a point
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03:50<chaos>i have a pc here with broken windows xp... i have a windows xp install cd with repair thingy but it's a different language version than the one on the pc and the morons renamed the admin account which is hardwired into the repair tool as user ... and first i just thought nobody knew the pass that's how i got the chntpw tool here ... but with that i figured out the other problem
03:50<chaos>so .. i was wondering if there was another linux tool to rename windows xp users :
03:50<chaos>or add
03:51<dutchfish>chaos, normally sysprep factory default that, thats all i know of, the rest is offtopic in here ;)
03:52<chaos>sysgrep factory default?
03:52<dutchfish>chaos, then you can run the miniinstaller or OEM it
03:52<dutchfish>chaos, read the docs
03:53<dutchfish>chaos, in xp, not sysgrep but sysprep
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03:54<chaos>i don't understand what you mean :(
03:55<chaos>however i managed to copy the missing file from install to broken pc's hdd and it booted just fine :)
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04:16<Kolt>Hi! Has anbody run debian on a sony vaio?
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04:17<EmleyMoor>Kolt: Probably someone has tried - are you trying, or merely planning to?
04:18<Kolt>EmleyMoor: planning to... I use Asus. Its my girlfriends laptop. I actually am planing to install ubuntu for her. Im just gathering info.
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04:20<EmleyMoor>Yes, good place to look, Kolt
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04:22<Kolt>demooriaan: Thank you. But this model is not listed. But I found no problems related to sony vaio. So I think I'll Backup, install, and then post my experiences
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04:24<demooriaan>Kolt: you may get a live cd/dvd and test that way
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05:12<tombs>hi all, I've been not using debian for a while, and I just tryed to donwload some files using frostwire, but those files come only with a audio message. Could someone tell me please, which program is the best to download mp3?
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05:16<lindi->tombs: what's frostwire?
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05:17<tombs>lindi-: aptitude show frostwire
05:18<tombs>Is the open source limewire let's say :)
05:20<lindi->tombs: I don't see it with aptitude
05:21<lindi->tombs: it's not in§ion=all either
05:21<cthuluh>because it's not in stable, probably
05:23<tombs>cthuluh: so what program can I use?
05:28<cthuluh>tombs: mldonkey?
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05:51<ladanz>hi guys! i want to start a x program on a remote machine, with display at the remote machine, already tried "export DISPLAY" seams it doesn't work
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05:54<lindi->ladanz: are you using gdm3?
05:54<ladanz>lindi-, yes indeed!
05:55<lindi->ladanz: you need to set XAUTHORITY too then
05:55<lindi->ladanz: but I'm away now :)
05:55<ladanz>lindi-: okay, thx
05:55<lindi->but also all the dbus stuff probably is a good idea
05:56<lindi->otherwise things like notifications don't work and you get extra processes too
05:57<ladanz>something like "export XAUTHORITY=/home/user/.Xauthority;export DISPLAY=0.0;vlc" right?
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06:11<clock_>ladanz, Debian has a problem that it starts X server with -nolisten
06:11<clock_>which disables the X connection from other hosts
06:11<clock_>ladanz, furthermore, if u enable it with "xhost +", it will write "access control disabled, clients can connect from any host" and this statement is FALSE
06:12<clock_>It will still reject connection, with TCP RST packet
06:12<clock_>ladanz, I use ssh -Y to run X program on another computer
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06:15<ladanz>clock_, yeah, then i set the display to "0.0" and try to start vlc and it says "Could not connect to X server; interface error: Cannot open display
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06:15<clock_>ladanz, yes, because it's lame
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06:16<clock_>ladanz, what do you get from ps ax | grep bin/X
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06:17<ladanz>clock_, 1342 tty7 Ss+ 0:25 /usr/bin/Xorg :0 -br -verbose -audit 0 -novtswitch -auth /var/run/gdm3/auth-for-Debian-gdm-52iAOv/database -nolisten tcp vt7
06:17<ladanz> 2428 pts/1 S+ 0:00 grep bin/X
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06:17<clock_>ladanz, the -nolisten is problem
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06:18<clock_>ladanz, wait im googling in /etc to find out in which file this -nolisten can be lobotomized out
06:18<ladanz>clock_, thx, ant btw nice "googling in /etc"
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06:19<clock_>ladanz, hehe thanks
06:19<clock_>I am afraid I will be accused of technically incorrect term
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06:20<clock_>/etc/X11/xinit/xserverrc is the file that needs psychiatric treatment
06:20<clock_>I am trying on my own PC
06:21<clock_>Now I have to reboot my X
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06:36<ladanz>someone please tell clock i had to leave and thx!
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06:58<evaluate>Do you happen to know any mini pcie draft-n wifi + bluetooth cards that are supported decently well under Debian?
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07:01<kaziem>no idea myself
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07:05<babilen>evaluate: In general it boils down to the chipset. Atheros cards are well supported as are Intel ones. Realtek chips are often a pain in the arse -- Do you have specific cards in mind?
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07:06<evaluate>ok, using google I can only seem to find this one: which has as chipset: "Atheros AR9285(MAC/Baseband/RF) with AR3011" any idea how well this would work under Debian?
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07:07<dselect>The Atheros AR9285 PCI-E wireless LAN chipset is supported by the mainline ath9k driver since Linux 2.6.29. Ask me about <ath9k>. See also Debian bug #577555.
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07:08<dselect>ath3k is a driver for <Bluetooth> devices with the Atheros AR3011 chipset (USB IDs 0CF3:3000, 0CF3:3002), included in mainline since Linux 2.6.34. Firmware from userspace is required (ath3k-1.fw), ask me about <atheros firmware> to provide.
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07:08<evaluate>That one looks good then.
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07:20<lindi->ladanz: -nolisten is most probably not your problem
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08:15<asdjaputra>is dpkg absent?
08:17<anirban>wow asdjaputra you have quite different name, is it real?
08:17<asdjaputra>angga satria djaputra
08:17<asdjaputra>a s djaputra
08:18<anirban>ohoo .. asian region?
08:18<anirban>its sound like sanskrit name
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08:25<babilen>asdjaputra: yes, you can use dselect for now (/msg dselect FOO)
08:25<asdjaputra>why is dpkg removed? i love him as an imaginary friend
08:25<babilen>It'll be back.
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08:26<asdjaputra>maybe a routine check?
08:27<korsaire>I've a little problem with cryptsetup. It doesn't want my only passphrase anymore. Before dd with /dev/urandom, do you have ant idea about what could be wrong ?
08:28<korsaire>I'm on Wheezy, I've already tested lots of things.
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08:30<Aleric>korsaire: are you sure it mounts the right partition?
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08:30<korsaire>absolutely sure
08:30<Aleric>Why are you so sure?
08:31<Aleric>My crypttab looks like this:
08:31<korsaire>because I know my computer, and I've tested under differents livecd, and, it's always the same
08:31<Aleric>encrypted UUID=bc19963a-a263-49bc-8a18-7e664c936408 none luks,cipher=aes-cbc-essiv:sha256,timeout=600,check=blkid,checkargs=ext3
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08:31<Aleric>How does your line look like?
08:32<korsaire>cryptsetup is on an external hard drive, so I don't use crypttab
08:33<korsaire>I mount the external hard drive when I need it
08:33<Aleric>What /dev/* do you use then?
08:34<korsaire>cryptsetup -v --debug luksOpen /dev/sdh1 SataExterne2048G
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08:35<Aleric>ls -l /dev/disk/by-id | grep sdh
08:35<Aleric>what does that give?
08:35<korsaire>already tested : lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 9 3 juil. 14:14 usb-ST2000DL_003-9VT166_M6116A016V20-0:0 -> ../../sdh
08:35<korsaire>lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 3 juil. 14:14 usb-ST2000DL_003-9VT166_M6116A016V20-0:0-part1 -> ../../sdh1
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08:36<korsaire>I've tested by-uuid, by-id, by-label
08:36<Aleric>ok, so sdh1 it is then...
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08:36<Aleric>Don't know then, sorry.
08:37<korsaire>luksDump is ok
08:37<korsaire>thank you Aleric
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08:37<Aleric>besides silly obvious things, like that your caps lock is on :p
08:38<korsaire>I've tested on another usb port, in another external drive, but nothing
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08:38<korsaire>on a squeeze, on another computer
08:39<Aleric>The only thing I could add is that something changed for me a while back when I upgraded debian... I had to change crypttab
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08:39<Aleric>Can't remember what it was :/
08:40<Aleric>Besides, that gave me an error and not just refusing the password.
08:41<Aleric>If I was you then I'd read up on Luks... those guys are a little bit like "this worked, but it shouldn't be done like that - so we change it so it won't work anymore"
08:41<Aleric>It's possible that you have to run cryptsetup differently from how it always worked for you in the past.
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08:45<korsaire>I set up cryptsetup two months ago, and since two weeks, this problem is there, before, it was perfect
08:46<korsaire>but, it's surely a good idea to be intouch with cryptsetup team directly
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08:48<korsaire>thanks Aleric
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09:08<jimmy>Can you guys give me a hand here, i'm having trouble with tty colors, my console is gray for some reason.
09:08<jimmy>I'm using Debian squeeze
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09:13<daemonkeeper>jimmy: are you looking for /etc/default/console-setup?
09:14<jimmy>I've loked at that... found nothing except how to change the console font... Does Console-setup affect tty colors?
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09:18<jimmy>another thing: in gnome terminal, if I am a normal user colors are ok. But if i'm root, then console will "dissapear". GnomeTerminal will use the system color scheme, like if it ware an input box.
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09:19<mihaum>Hello, I am looking for an alternative for xfce4-power-manager
09:20<valdyn> jimmy how should not run gnome-terminal as root
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09:20<valdyn> jimmy: *you* should not run gnome-terminal as root
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09:22<jimmy>Thanks for reply, i am using Gnome terminal as root. executing it with command : gksu /usr/bin/x-terminal-emulator
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09:23<K-J158>I would like to install vmware server 2.0.2 on a fresh install of debian squeeze (kernel 2.6.39-2-amd64)
09:23<K-J158>i know that vmware server is not supported anymore on this os..
09:23-!-cybersphinx_ [] has joined #debian
09:23<K-J158>but i found severals patch
09:24<K-J158>any one know how to build vmware server kernel modules (vmmon, vmci, vmsock..) on this kernel ?
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09:31<Nazcafan>hey guys, I see some video drivers errors at launch time, I tried to find them in /var/log/messages, but the only thing I could find was a reference to file //debug/dri/0/i915_error_state
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09:32<Nazcafan>some googling seems to indicate that I need to prefix that with /sys/kernel,
09:32<Nazcafan>but /sys/kernel/debug/ is an empty folder
09:32<Nazcafan>any clue?
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09:40<CybrSpace>Nazcafan. I googled it up for you but found the same, I can't help... sry
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09:41<Nazcafan>CybrSpace, it's OK, I need to mount debugfs at startup, it's a line in the fstab
09:41<Nazcafan>is anyone having trouble bringing up a gui while su?
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09:41<valdyn>Nazcafan: everyone
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09:44<CybrSpace>Valdyn not everyone. I'm having no problems with that.
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09:46<CybrSpace>Opps... sry it only works with gedit... LOL
09:46<CybrSpace>" (nautilus:2979): Unique-DBus-WARNING **: Unable to connect to the running instance, aborting. "
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09:53<sotgal>is anyone from greece or russia?
09:53<Rehnquist>i'll ask here too: can anyone help me apply a patch to the kernel?
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09:54<gnugr>sotgal: why you ask, i'm from Greece
09:55<sotgal>kai ego episis
09:55<sotgal>apla rotisa
09:55<sotgal>ayto einai to antistoixo tou mirk?
09:55<gnugr>we have Greek debian channel too
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09:56<sotgal>pos mporo na mpo?
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09:56<CybrSpace>Greek is a truly unique language!
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09:56<CybrSpace>A language i'll never understand. :)
09:57<gnugr>sotgal: here is , is with
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09:58<DeFiniTi0N>i have an issue with
09:58<DeFiniTi0N>they lag
10:00<daemonkeeper>You perhaps want to install a 3D accelerated display driver
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10:01<DeFiniTi0N>can you give me a link please
10:01<DeFiniTi0N>even minecraft lags very much
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10:01<daemonkeeper>Which video card do you have?
10:01<DeFiniTi0N>nvidia 9600gt
10:01<daemonkeeper>dselect: nvidia-glx
10:01<dselect>i don't know, daemonkeeper
10:02<daemonkeeper>dselect: nvidia glx
10:02<dselect>daemonkeeper: I give up, what is it?
10:02<daemonkeeper>dselect: nvidia
10:02<dselect> . Ask me about <nouveau> (no 3D support in Debian packages), <nvidia dkms> or <nvidia m-a>. For GPUs made before 2004, see <nvidia dkms-173xx> and <nvidia dkms-96xx> for legacy drivers. See <nvidia lenny> for oldstable. Installing directly from (i.e. with <nvidia-installer>) is _not_ supported in #debian, please go to #nvidia on
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10:02<DeFiniTi0N>where to deselect nvidia glx
10:03<daemonkeeper>dselect: nvidia dkms
10:03<dselect>For Squeeze users. Ask me about <contrib> and <non-free sources>. "aptitude -r install linux-headers-2.6-`uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,'` nvidia-kernel-dkms && mkdir /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d ; echo -e 'Section "Device"\n\tIdentifier "My GPU"\n\tDriver "nvidia"\nEndSection' > /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nvidia.conf". Restart your system to enable the <nouveau> blacklist. For legacy drivers, see <nvidia dkms-173xx> and <nvidia dkms-96xx>.
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10:21<Kolt>I have a movie in *.r00 ... *.rar
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10:22<Kolt>when I type unrar *.r00 it extracts inly that and not the others
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10:22<Aleric>use the .rar file
10:22<Kolt>when I type unrar e *.r00 it sais All OK and nothing is extracted
10:22<Aleric>unrar e *.rar
10:23<Aleric>not .r00
10:23<Kolt>with that the same happens
10:23<Aleric>hmm, yes... well, where *.rar is a single file.
10:23<Aleric>then the rar is broken :p
10:23*daemonkeeper wonders which creative common licensed film about open source topics Kolt may have downloaded.
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10:28<Aleric>My ANS9010 ramdisk started to lock up :(. JUst happened for the third time this month.
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10:29<Aleric>I have to take it out and remove the battery before I can even reboot! And when it happens my videocard stops giving a signal (monitors go black) and the kernel becomes slow and prints some hex dump every few minutes (which I can see when I ssh in remote)
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11:27<poddmotux>mdadm RAID10f2 with 4 disks resync seems slow. the disks can each read at 80MB/s, mdadm resync is only pulling 30MB/s from each disk. iowait is 0% so why should the resync not max the disks?
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11:33<ansgar>dselect: zh
11:33<dselect>Ruguo nin xihuan dedao zhongwen de banzu, qin yi bu ben fuwu qi sang de #debian-zh pindao, jiaru fangfa wei zai surukuan zhong suru "/join #debian-zh" (bu yao jia yin hao), xiexie nin de hezuo!
11:35<duan>thank you.i got it.
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11:38<valdyn>poddmotux: are you thinking that you should get a sync speed across all disks of 240?
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11:39<valdyn>poddmotux: err 320
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11:40<valdyn>poddmotux: iowait being 0 means that your computer is to slow to get ahead of disks
11:40<poddmotux>that would follow though I hadn't thought of it quite like that. watching iostat shows each drive reading 35MB/s
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11:43<poddmotux>the cpu is 96% idle, it's AMD phenom 4core. I've stopped everything except ssh and mdadm and unmounted the file systems using the array device
11:44<poddmotux>that leaves the motherboard: Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H
11:44<Aleric>Can I put a SATA3 disk in my PC if that only supports SATA2 ?
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11:46<valdyn>Aleric: yea
11:46*Aleric wants to buy a SSD now that my simm based ramdisk died :/
11:46<Neohasreturned>Hi I been doing a bit of research on debian and couldn't find much and was wondering if someone could tell me the advantages of installing debian to other OS such as Ubuntu or Mint?
11:47<Neohasreturned>cahoot, Is it as user friendly as Ubuntu or Mint?
11:47<cahoot>in my opinion yes
11:48<cahoot>(never used mint though)
11:48<Neohasreturned>cahoot, How about codecs and drivers and software?
11:48<lord_rob>ubuntu gave alot back to debian, in this area
11:49<cahoot>fwiw I've never lacked anything of those in debian
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11:49<Neohasreturned>Ok the reason why I am asking is I have tried both Ubuntu and mint and I have a few issues with both and was looking to see if debian is better
11:50<cahoot>impossible to know
11:50<Bushmills>Neohasreturned: maybe you could, as you seem to look from an ubuntu perspective, tell us first what you consider the disadvantages of ubuntu against debian
11:50<nevyn>Neohasreturned: what were the issues you had because debian may be better or worse depending on what the problem was.
11:50<Bushmills>i suppose, from the debian perspective of advantages over ubuntu, the set could be a common one :)
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11:51<Neohasreturned>Bushmills, Technically I was windows and migrated but mint runs slow on my laptop and Ubuntu has its flaws as well
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11:51<cahoot>is there a flawless OS?
11:52<Bushmills>Neohasreturned: those "its flaws" are ubuntu specific?
11:52<Neohasreturned>cahoot, I suppose not but I suppose you have to try a few to get the right one?
11:52<cahoot>...or adjust
11:52<Neohasreturned>Bushmills, Thats right yeah I have never used debian and wanted to know if it is as user friendly as ubuntu and whether the same programs can be installed and if codecs are the same?
11:53<cahoot>Neohasreturned, I think you need to be more specific
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11:54<nevyn>debian is more picky about it's friends, the same programs can be installed and debian includes a very limited number of a/v codecs (but you can find many in debian-multimedia repositories)
11:54<Bushmills>set of programs is similar. but you don't want to install ubuntu packages into debian.
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11:54<daemonkeeper>Debian runs certainly every program Ubuntu does (or every other Linux). This does not mean you _should_ do this.
11:54<Neohasreturned>Have i touched a taboo subject?
11:55<Bushmills>ubuntu may a bit less restrictive concerning the licenses of programs distributed than debian. as result, debian doesn't offer some programs which may be part of other distributions
11:55<daemonkeeper>No, but most of the time you do something wrong if you look for external packages not available directly in Debian's repositories.
11:55<nevyn>Neohasreturned: user friendlyness is not very well defined. I find puppet much more user friendly for my purposes than logging onto all my systems and runing apt-get install blah
11:55<nevyn>daemonkeeper: d-m
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11:56<Neohasreturned>Bushmills, I like to be able to have my media codecs and what ubuntu call restricted extras whereas mint comes preinstalled with codecs
11:56<Neohasreturned>nevyn, I struggle greatly with terminal
11:56<Bushmills>debian has main, contrib and non-free, with the latter being optional.
11:57<anirban>Neohasreturned, use synaptic then
11:57<daemonkeeper>I haven't tested, but I'd bet Debian comes with a lot less codecs than Ubuntu, since Ubuntu clearly fails the DFSG where Mint cares even less.
11:57<Neohasreturned>anirban, I use software centre which is easier but to tweak things terminal is needed
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11:57<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, i came from Ubuntu world to Debian - i too was worried about codecs/non-free software at the time (I have since switched to all free). Debian-Multimedia can install the same w32/w64-codecs you could from medibuntu, and the contrib repo has flash non-free plugin. BUT Debian is NOT as "easy" to use in MANY regards - you are expected to read documentation to get things working.
11:58<Bushmills>some multimedia stuff which is not compatible with debian licenses is available from external repositories
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11:59<Neohasreturned>For example the other day burning an anime film which was in MKV was very difficult to do in the end I had to install xp in a virtualmachine and do it that way
11:59<ZykoticK9_>dselect, d-m
11:59<dselect>[dmm] Debian Multimedia is a repository of unofficial packages maintained by Christian Marillat, not in Debian for patent-related reasons. For information on how to access, see or ask me about <dmm squeeze> <dmm lenny>. During 2010, this repository grew a non-free part, with all binary-only packages moved there; you may need to add " non-free" to your sources lines. See also <dmm mirrors>, <dmm list>.
12:00<Neohasreturned>anirban, What is that link all about?
12:00<anirban>source list gen for debian you mite can get multimedia source from there
12:00<Bushmills>matroska files shouldn't impose problem - that's a free format
12:00<Neohasreturned>And another thing I hate about Ubuntu is lack of help. I came into this room and have had no problems getting info from you guys
12:00<anirban>and all other stuff you mite like to add
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12:01<Neohasreturned>Bushmills, The only files I can burn in Ubuntu is avi and mp4 I even had to install mp3 codecs
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12:02<Neohasreturned>ZykoticK9_, In which way is debian harder to use than ubuntu.
12:02<Bushmills>the "burning" itself doesn't care about what files you put to disk
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12:02<ZykoticK9_>Bushmills, it really depends on what codecs are inside that matroska container - may or may not be "free"
12:02<Neohasreturned>Bushmills, Its what you use to convert them and they didn't like it I tried various ones
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12:03<Bushmills>ZykoticK9_: that's true, matroska being a container definition format
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12:03<Neohasreturned>Is debian suitable for everyday use or is mainly for testing purposes?
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12:03<lord_rob>I'd say Debian is more workstation/server oriented than Ubuntu which is more Home desktop friendly
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12:04<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, installing nvidia drivers are an excellent example. Ubuntu has a GUI apps to do it, Debian expects some manual package installation/configuration - various steps must be followed.
12:04<Bushmills>Neohasreturned: it has its advantages, things not functioning because non-free or restricted-use software are needed - it helps to fade those out.
12:04<Neohasreturned>ZykoticK9_, Unfortunately that wouldn't apply to me I don't have nvidia I have basic graphics lol
12:04<anirban>ZykoticK9_, i like module-assistant for nvidia:D
12:05<Neohasreturned>And another reason why I was told to try debian is because it is more resource friendly to older pcs so I was told?
12:05<daemonkeeper>lord_rob: That's definitively not true. Debian claims itself to be "the universal OS". The only difference is, Debian has ideologic values, where Ubuntu and Mint won't care to ease usability (for some values of).
12:05<anirban>Neohasreturned, install module-assistant then m-a a-i nvidia-kernel
12:05<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, i use "stable" as my desktop/netbook OS just fine (many people might find the packages to old, but I appreciate the well tested to !SNS)
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12:06<ZykoticK9_>anirban, i just used nvidia as an example - i'm not sure Neohasreturned even has nvidia
12:06<anirban>ZykoticK9_, i think even sid stable then ubuntu
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12:06<Neohasreturned>My laptop is pants ZykoticK9_ lol
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12:07<Neohasreturned>Is debian similar in terms of gnome, kde and lxde editions?
12:07<lindi->I think it's quite fair to say that debian does not have enough people working for the desktop stuff
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12:07<jyre>i started using Debian because it is used at my workplace and i knew practically nothing about linux last November. using Lenny forced me to learn many interesting things not only about my laptop but computers in general
12:07<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, expect Debian packages to be older then Ubuntu's (i'm talking Stable here)
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12:08<Neohasreturned>ZykoticK9_, Out of curiousity what software manager comes with debian for example mint and ubuntu have synaptic and software centre?
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12:09<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, debian has both synaptic or software center as well
12:09<pincker>hello everybody
12:09<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, aptitude FTW (common Debian sentiment)
12:09<jyre>hello pincker
12:09<anirban>i like debain , and like what is it , i came from mint - ubuntu .. and got debian a better distro , if like new packages i will go for sid
12:09<lord_rob>daemonkeeper: I wanted to say say that if you install Debian to make a desktop system you will have more security restrictions than with Ubuntu. I know I've experienced that in the begining ...
12:09<pincker>does anyone knows, why i cannot chating on #knoppix ?
12:09<lindi->lord_rob: security restrictions?
12:10<daemonkeeper>lord_rob: Ehm, how is security bad after all?
12:10<Neohasreturned>ZykoticK9_, Sounds good to me then any particular debian os to start with?
12:10<daemonkeeper>(besides of what lindi- asks)
12:10<nevyn>pincker: are you identiried?
12:10<lord_rob>lindi-: well I couldn't start X applications when su'ed
12:10<nevyn>pincker: register your account with nickserv might help
12:10<lord_rob>that's what came to mind
12:10<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, i'd personally recommend starting with squeeze - go from there ;)
12:10<lindi->lord_rob: sounds like DISPLAY is not set right?
12:11<cahoot>sounds like want to learn to use 'sux'
12:11<Neohasreturned>Debian squeeze I've heard of that what desktop edition is it?
12:11<daemonkeeper>lindi-: No, xhost restrictions which allow to paint windows on foreign screens
12:11<lindi->daemonkeeper: hmm?
12:11<pincker>ok, i will try do this
12:11<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, "desktop edition" what do you mean? squeeze = Debian right now
12:11<daemonkeeper>lindi-: e.g. su root -c "xprogram" fails unless you set "xhost +" (or something less liberal)
12:12<lindi->daemonkeeper: are you saying ubuntu runs with 'xhost +'?
12:12<Neohasreturned>ZykoticK9_, Sorry I weren't clear I meant is it gnome, kde or lxde?
12:12<daemonkeeper>lindi-: I don't know, but apparently yes?
12:12<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, by default it's Gnome2 - but you can actually choose
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12:12<lindi->daemonkeeper: that sounds very odd
12:12<Neohasreturned>ZykoticK9_, I love gnome
12:12<daemonkeeper>lindi-: Well, if this is what lord_rob complains about Debian worse than Ubuntu, I'd guess they do :)
12:12<lord_rob>but I got all the help I needed here
12:13<lindi->daemonkeeper: I wouldn't trust lord_rob here :)
12:13<anirban>Neohasreturned, use openbox with debian :) its blezing fast
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12:13<lord_rob>because when I started Debian, there was no Ubuntu ;)
12:13<Neohasreturned>anirban, Ppl mention openbox all the time what is it?
12:13<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, as long as it's Gnome2 and not Gnome3 that you love - if you want Gnome3 i'd recommend Fedora - under Debian it's been in experimental and soon (or possibly now) will be in Sid
12:13<jyre>:o google openbox
12:13<anirban>Neohasreturned, its a minimam wm
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12:13<Neohasreturned>lord_rob, Am I right in thinkin debian came before ubuntu and mint?
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12:14<daemonkeeper>Neohasreturned: About 12 years :>
12:14<lord_rob>Neohasreturned: of course debian isid s the base of ubuntu
12:14<Neohasreturned>ZykoticK9_, No I don't like the new gnome anyway how do I get squeeze then
12:14<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, *box are Windows Managers vs. Desktop Environments (KDE/Gnome/etc)
12:14<Neohasreturned>lord_rob, Yeah they all say ubuntu and that is based on debian
12:14<lord_rob>don't know about mint tho
12:14<anirban>ubuntu may be 2004
12:14<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, download a torrent is the easiest method - you have the choice of using the netinstall or cd1
12:15<Ruusento>Ubuntu is a memory hog, simply.
12:15<Neohasreturned>ZykoticK9_, Which one do i need ?
12:15<daemonkeeper>Debian is in its 18th year, Ubuntu is a Debian derivative (it still shares 75% of all programs with Debian), wheras Mint is a Ubuntu derivative.
12:15<cahoot>foremost ubuntu is OT
12:15<miggs>hello. apt-get --no-install-recommends does install the eventual recommends of dependencies?
12:16<pincker>i have registred my nick by nickserv, get answer ... Nickname pincker has been registered successfully and is now yours to use ... and i still cannot write on #knoppix :(
12:16<anirban>there also peppermint , from mint .
12:16<Neohasreturned>lord_rob, Mint is younger than ubuntu
12:16<lindi->daemonkeeper: sudo sh -c 'DISPLAY=:0 xdpyinfo' fails in maverick at least
12:16<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, "need" is the wrong word - either. Netinstall is small and downloads only what you need basically, CD1(or DVD1) will have all the packages for a desktop on the cd
12:16<lord_rob>Neohasreturned: you know if ppl thought stopped thinking that a pc is windows it would already be great :)
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12:16<lord_rob>we all know linux is not ubuntu, that ubuntu is not debian
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12:17<Neohasreturned>lord_rob, I was too greatly brainwashed by bill gates but windows will always be number 1 for dummies so to speak lol
12:17<lord_rob>(here I mean)
12:17<daemonkeeper>lindi-: So let's hope lord_rob had a nifty .bash_profile setting xhost + from ubuntuusers or so, and Ubuntu maintainers are not /that/ careless
12:17<anirban>netinstall is proper way to use debian i think
12:17<lindi->daemonkeeper: yeah
12:17<anirban>i do netinstall , althugh i am on dialup
12:18<Neohasreturned>lord_rob, I know ubuntu isn't debian its based on it
12:18<lindi->daemonkeeper: ubuntu may very well be more secure desktop than debian soon :)
12:18<Ruusento>anirban: on dialup you should get a DVD
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12:18<anirban>Ruusento, no
12:18<daemonkeeper>lindi-: Because nobody succeeds to run Wayland? :)
12:18<anirban>its will make my distro large
12:18<Neohasreturned>ZykoticK9_, Theres loads of different dvd numbers?
12:18<Ruusento>I remember that netinstall doesn't have support for 56k modems
12:18<lindi->daemonkeeper: because they have people working on the desktop stuff
12:18<anirban>net install took onetime a huge time :) but when its fully install there inly stuff i need
12:19<anirban>small update :)
12:19<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, you only need cd1 or dvd1 - the rest are basically "extras" to the "base" install
12:19<anirban>Ruusento, i have router
12:19<Neohasreturned>ZykoticK9_, Is debian 6 squeeze it dont give me a choice for others
12:19<lindi->ZykoticK9_: do you know if a desktop installation can actually nowadays be done with only cd1?
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12:20<ZykoticK9_>lindi-, as far as i know yes - did several squeeze installs with only cd1
12:20<Ruusento>anirban: oh ok, good luck on downloading ;)
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12:20<anirban>Ruusento, its actually DHCP for usb0 , got 25 kbps
12:20<daemonkeeper>Well, you can install Debian from a 170M netinst image.
12:20<Neohasreturned>This cant be right 87k?
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12:20<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, "choice for others"? what do you mean/what are you expecting?
12:21<lord_rob>I don't have a .bash_profile
12:21<lindi->ZykoticK9_: cd1 does not seem to have network manager
12:21<NEON-SAMURAI>daemonkeeper, did that and upgraded to sid :)
12:21<Ruusento>anirban: maybe a 64k connection with a cell phone would be speedier
12:21<anirban>Ruusento, you can say i use most of minimum application
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12:22<ZykoticK9_>lindi-, Debian doesn't rely as heavily on network-manager as other distros --- /etc/network/interfaces is typically configured by the installer
12:22<Neohasreturned>ZykoticK9_, There's more than one edition of debian I meant? Do I need dvd or cd?
12:22<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, cd1 should be fine
12:22<lindi->ZykoticK9_: but it's clearly part of the desktop environment that people expect :)
12:22<akerl>Neohasreturned: There is only one "edition". cd1 or dvd1 is what you want.
12:22<Neohasreturned>akerl, Whats difference?
12:22<daemonkeeper>lindi-: Yes. Let's make network-manager the default for Wheezy *hides*
12:23<akerl>One is a dvd size, one is cd size?
12:23-!-cybersphinx [] has joined #debian
12:23<anirban>Neohasreturned, cd1 is gnome with basic application
12:23<lindi->ZykoticK9_: that's what I mean by debian not really having much people working for desktop stuff. You can't expect an average user to configure his wlan by running gedit as root to modify /etc/network/interfaces
12:23<Ruusento>Neohasreturned: the DVD contains more packages than the CD
12:23<NEON-SAMURAI>akerl, dvd saves you downloading stuff later
12:23<akerl>NEON-SAMURAI: At the cost of downloading more now :p I'd rather get exactly what I want later than download 4gig at once :p
12:23<NEON-SAMURAI>akerl, well.. some stuff anyway
12:23<Neohasreturned>Ruusento, Is it worthwhile downloading the dvd
12:24-!-jhutchins_lt [] has joined #debian
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12:24<lindi->daemonkeeper: this has nothing to do with that :)
12:24<Neohasreturned>Ok I am downloading the cd is that a live cd?
12:24<daemonkeeper>Certainly not, I was just trolling :)
12:24<NEON-SAMURAI>akerl, sorry, yeah, should have realised people here would know that kind of thing. ive just come from debian and mint and pinguy os distros
12:25<Ruusento>Neohasreturned: yes it is, actually you can store it and use it to install to another machine, maybe without internet connection, having lots of software ready to be installed
12:25<NEON-SAMURAI>pinguy mushes together mint and ubuntu. really nice distro
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12:25<NEON-SAMURAI>i used the mini so i could install everything i wanted app wise
12:25<ZykoticK9_>lindi-, i'm not sure where you're going with your statement. Debian is a community, if that community focuses on an area you aren't interested in - then you should find a different community. Debian is the "universal os" but it's perhaps not intended to be "one size fits all." Personally, I think Debian makes a better Desktop OS then the other options, but others will disagree ;)
12:25*akerl is an arch man.
12:25<Neohasreturned>Is i386 32 bit?
12:26<daemonkeeper>Neohasreturned: Yep
12:26<Ruusento>ZykoticK9_: seconded.
12:26<anirban>NEON-SAMURAI, Linux mint Debian one ?
12:26<lindi->ZykoticK9_: I do disagree :)
12:26<lord_rob>network-manager is nice on laptops too
12:26<daemonkeeper>The good thing is, Debian is not _one size_. You can trim and stretch Debian to almost any size, any environment and architecture.
12:26<NEON-SAMURAI>akerl, went to try arch, and found it a bit overwhelming
12:26<Neohasreturned>daemonkeeper, Cool so when I have downloaded it what are the codecs I need after that to install?
12:27<daemonkeeper>Neohasreturned: You can do this anytime, just install it.
12:27<Neohasreturned>is wireless easy to configure on debian?
12:27<NEON-SAMURAI>anirban, i used the debian one and found gnome based too far behind. dont like xfce much, used the ubuntu based one
12:27<lindi->ZykoticK9_: running gedit as root is a security problem too
12:27<Ruusento>daemonkeeper: actually having support even for embedded architectures give Debian a good point over Ubuntu and derivatives
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12:27<akerl>NEON-SAMURAI: I run it on a server, so the whole minimal/very standard is pretty easy
12:27<akerl>When I'm running linux with a gui, it's debian
12:27<lindi->ZykoticK9_: since then a bug in your web browser can easily take over the whole system
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12:28<Bushmills>debwrt looks interesting, albeit still in an early state
12:28<Neohasreturned>5 mins til its downloaded
12:28<ZykoticK9_>lindi-, that's two different issues - and I'm unclear on either of them. Why do you run gedit & a web browser as root?
12:28<Ruusento>lindi-: actually it can't. you aren't using the web browser as root, are you?
12:28<NEON-SAMURAI>akerl, i got it installed. then got lost in packages (ive been spoiled by debs), and i noticed that i may run into issues with my ati card
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12:28<anirban>akerl do you openbox as wm
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12:29<akerl>anirban: For debian? xfce.
12:29<lindi->ZykoticK9_: how do you modify /etc/network/interfaces?
12:29<Ruusento>NEON-SAMURAI: at the end of the install, you can get the proprietary ATI package and install it manually.
12:29<anirban>akerl, nice , xfce also liter
12:29<lindi->Ruusento: the web browser can trojan your .bashrc so that next time you say "sudo" it will just log your password and send it to the attacker
12:29<Neohasreturned>Can someone tell me if you can get the following packages on debian? k3b, devede and gtkpod?
12:29<ZykoticK9_>lindi-, how do I? "sudo vi /etc/network/interfaces" or "gksu gedit /etc/network/interfaces" for a GUI version
12:29<NEON-SAMURAI>Ruusento, might try it again another time
12:29<akerl>I've used crunchbang on my laptop with openbox. I like it, but it's meh for the desktop.
12:30<Bushmills>i wonder when someone shows up with a question about debwrt, will he be told that debwrt is not debian? or is it, actually?
12:30<anirban>Neohasreturned, some people fine better wicd for wireless
12:30<lindi->ZykoticK9_: doesn't 'gksu gedit' run gedit as root?
12:30-!-dvs [] has joined #debian
12:30<Ruusento>lindi-: and then, how the attacker would connect to your home box?
12:30-!-jibel [] has joined #debian
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12:30<Neohasreturned>anirban, wicd?
12:30<Ruusento>maybe behind a router
12:30<NEON-SAMURAI>i was on the hunt for days for a up to date rolling distro that could do all i wanted. issues were my ati card and my usb scanner (which needs atleast sane-backends-1.0.22)
12:30<Ruusento>and without sshd
12:30<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, devede and gtkpod are both in Debian-Multimedia
12:30<lindi->Ruusento: there are a lot of ways. typical rootkits connect to an irc channel to get instructions
12:30<daemonkeeper>gtkpod is in main.
12:30<anirban>Neohasreturned, those are from kde
12:30<anirban>devede from mumtimedia repo
12:31<Neohasreturned>How about k3b?
12:31<akerl>lindi-: How would running a text editor as root allow the text editor to become a web browser?
12:31<Neohasreturned>or k9copy?
12:31<daemonkeeper>k3b is in main as well
12:31<anirban>Neohasreturned, yes you mite like wicd-gtk
12:31<Neohasreturned>anirban, Whats that?
12:31<lindi->akerl: the web browser and the text editor are in the same X server. this means the web browser can even inject keystrokes to the text editor
12:31<Ruusento>lindi-: I know, but who has interest to attack a Linux home box?
12:31<anirban>Neohasreturned, network manager
12:31<daemonkeeper>Ruusento: Because one can
12:31<daemonkeeper>That's enough reason. Really.
12:31<lindi->Ruusento: that wasn't my argument :)
12:31<akerl>lindi-: Except that the web browser is not running as root.
12:31<ZykoticK9_>lindi-, yes gksu runs with root privileges. You may be SHOCKED that looking in as root is not "dangerous" (using root improperly can certainly break your system quickly) - I realize coming from a Mint/Ubuntu background that may seem strange at first.
12:32<Neohasreturned>anirban, Does it not have a built in wireless manager?
12:32-!-Knorrie [] has quit [Quit: apt-get dist-upgrade]
12:32<anirban>Neohasreturned, if you are in gnome, k3b will install lots of repo from kde
12:32-!-angasule [~angasule@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:32<lindi->akerl: but the web browser does not need to run as root as long as it can interact with a program that runs as root
12:32-!-NEON-SAMURAI [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:32<Neohasreturned>anirban, k3b works fine in gnome and its the best burning package by far
12:32<anirban>Neohasreturned, idk about build in , but its have a wireless manager
12:32-!-angasule [~angasule@] has joined #debian
12:32<Ruusento>lindi-: actually it is, since it's more interesting for crackers to get access on a big server with lots of bandwidth
12:33<lindi->Ruusento: sure
12:33<Ruusento>than a little home box full of p2p traffic
12:33-!-Knorrie [] has joined #debian
12:33<lindi->Ruusento: but that doesn't mean that we should forget desktop security :)
12:33-!-jackyf [] has joined #debian
12:33<Neohasreturned>anirban, Nearly finished downloading it now
12:33<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, after install, just install the network-manager-gnome package
12:34<Neohasreturned>ZykoticK9_, But how can I do that without a internet connection?
12:34-!-cybersphinx_ [] has joined #debian
12:34<lindi->ZykoticK9_: I'm arguing that running "sudo anything" in a terminal inside X is a bad idea :)
12:34<ZykoticK9_>lindi-, DON'T!!!
12:34<lindi->ZykoticK9_: then how do I join a wifi network?
12:35<lindi->ZykoticK9_: I should ctrl-alt-f1 to do it?
12:35<daemonkeeper>for security reasons, you should not be connected to a network at all!
12:35<ZykoticK9_>lindi-, i'd recommend you install network-manager to get a GUI to do it, i've never personally don't wireless through /etc/network/interfaces (but i'm sure it's possible)
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12:35<daemonkeeper>In fact, best choice is to turn off your computer.
12:35<lindi->ZykoticK9_: yes but the problem is that there's no network manager on cd1 ;)
12:35<akerl>So your argument is "Someone can configure a site, which, for someone who 1) is running a vulnerable browser, and 2) is running linux, and 3) has a root gedit open, and 4) waits patiently while that gedit goes batcrap crazy and modifies files
12:35<akerl>There could be a vulnerability there.
12:35<akerl>At the point that you're being that seriously targetted, they'll just break into your house and bludgeon your computer with a hammer.
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12:36<Neohasreturned>ZykoticK9_, Where do I install the network-manager-gnome-package from?
12:36<ZykoticK9_>lindi-, do you have access to an ethernet connection?
12:36<dvs>lindi-: but wpa-supplicant is on CD1
12:36<lindi->dvs: sure but you need to hack /etc/network/interfaces to use it? ;)
12:36<dvs>lindi-: yes
12:37<lindi->not the desktop way :)
12:37<ZykoticK9_>lindi-, Neohasreturned - I'd highly recommend to you both to have a wired connection, to install both network-manager as well as any non-free drivers/firmware, or open firmware that may be required by your wireless cards
12:37<lindi->My original statement was just that we need more people working on desktop in debian
12:37<lindi->and that running gedit as root to edit /etc/network/interfaces is not exactly a usable solution to a lot of desktop users
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12:38<Neohasreturned>ZykoticK9_, Does it not have a built in wireless manager from install then?
12:38<Ruusento>lindi-: actually Debian works flawlessly as a desktop OS.
12:38<lindi->and then the third point is that it is not very secure solution either
12:38<dvs>lindi-: Are you trying to install Debian wirelessly?
12:38<lindi->dvs: I'm not trying to install anything
12:38-!-jackyf [] has joined #debian
12:38<lindi->I've been running the same installation for ages :)
12:38<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, be warned that the install can only use OPEN or WEP wireless -- no WPA support during install I believe
12:38<dvs>ah, just a commentary
12:39<lindi->dvs: yes
12:39<lindi->Ruusento: I guess we should define desktop OS somehow :)
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12:39<dvs>lindi-: I'd be way more worried about the necessary firmware packages needed to get the wireless card running in the first place.
12:39<daemonkeeper>After all, lindi- might know Debian better than all of you imagine ... :)
12:40<dvs>daemonkeeper: not possible! ;-)
12:40<Neohasreturned>ZykoticK9_, My router is wpa?
12:40<lindi->I've been running everything under screen and VNC for maybe 7 years and now just exploring the wonderful world. mainly since I want to help users who don't have time to learn editing configuration files
12:40<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, so, my suggestion is use ethernet until you can get drivers/firmware/n-m installed first
12:41<lindi->Ruusento: does your idea of "desktop OS" include the idea that network should be configured by modifying a configuration file with text editor?
12:41<Neohasreturned>ZykoticK9_, Once I install debian and the network-manager-gnome it will work all the time then no command line
12:41-!-clocker [] has joined #debian
12:41<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, correct
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12:41<Neohasreturned>ZykoticK9_, Where do I install the wireless manager tho?
12:42-!-grandie [] has joined #debian
12:42<Ruusento>lindi-: it isn't a problem, maybe your likings are getting more userfriendlyness from an OS.
12:42<Bushmills>Neohasreturned: what's wrong with command line?
12:42<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, if you use Gnome - the "aptitude install network-manager-gnome" or use Synaptic
12:42<lindi->Ruusento: I think we have a different idea of "desktop" here. as always, terminology is a problem
12:42-!-Piet [] has quit [Quit: Piet]
12:43<Ruusento>I don't mind editing a file (5 secs and two commands) to get interfaces working right as I want
12:43<sney>lindi-: I've long thought it would be neat if there were a gui utility that could parse common/standard config file syntax and present it as a set of checkboxes and fill-in-the-blanks. it's something I'd do myself if I could code my way out of a wet paper bag.
12:43<Neohasreturned>ZykoticK9_, Would the command be sudo apt-get install network-manager-gnome"
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12:43<Neohasreturned>Bushmills, Nothing I just aint very experienced with it
12:43-!-kuhkatz__ [] has joined #debian
12:43<sney>lindi-: that said, this is a SUPPORT channel, so any discussions not directly related to supporting someone's install are offtopic. #debian-offtopic is a great place to put heads together on this sort of thing.
12:43<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, sure - but i'd get use to using aptitude instead, makes you fit into the Debian community better ;)
12:43<Bushmills>windows/ubuntu/mint conditioning?
12:43<lindi->sney: to handle concurrent access you need locking or a daemon that offers the functionality
12:44<lindi->sney: gconf kind of already is that
12:44<Neohasreturned>ZykoticK9_, Sorry is that an Ubuntu term only then?
12:44<Ruusento>lindi-: a good CLI network manager is Ceni, it's not bloated, and it doesn't need so much Linux knowledge
12:44-!-Piet [] has joined #debian
12:44<lindi->Ruusento: can you suggest some better term for a system that can be used without modifying configuration files? ;)
12:45<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, no - but "apt-get vs aptitude" is a long running Bikeshed issue for Debian users
12:45-!-akerl [] has joined #debian
12:45<Ruusento>lindi-: Windows-clone OS?
12:45<lindi->Ruusento: that's not very constructive
12:45<Ruusento>lindi-: that's reality in my ideas
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12:45<anirban>wicd its self a good network manager for cli
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12:46<jhutchins_lt>,versions ltsp-server
12:46<judd>Package ltsp-server on i386 -- lenny: 5.1.10-2; sid: 5.1.98-1; lenny-backports: 5.2.4-2~bpo50+2; squeeze: 5.2.4-2; sid: 5.2.8-1; wheezy: 5.2.8-1
12:46<Neohasreturned>ZykoticK9_, I take it theres not much love lost between Debian & Ubuntu then lol
12:46<lindi->Ruusento: do you seriously think that all computer users should be editing configuration files?
12:46<sney>Ruusento: you too. this is the support channel for Debian. are you helping someone with an issue or are you hypothesizing about system design? -->#debian-offtopic
12:46<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, there as been some "friction" in the past yes ;)
12:46<lindi->sney: it might be a good idea yes
12:46<akerl>lindi-: All computer administrators. And there should be one for every computer, work or home.
12:47<Neohasreturned>ZykoticK9_, Fair enough I don't wanna tread on anyones toes lol does debian come installed with Xchat for IRC support?
12:48<jhutchins_lt>Neohasreturned: I think it's optional.
12:48<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, Debian comes with fewer pre-installed programs then you may be used to - just install xchat afterwards
12:48<jhutchins_lt>Neohasreturned: I use konversation, there are a lot of other options.
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12:49<Neohasreturned>jhutchins, Is it better than xchat?
12:49<Neohasreturned>ZykoticK9_, Can you get chromium on debian?
12:49<anirban>Neohasreturned, yes
12:49<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, chromium-browser is the package
12:49<Ruusento>Neohasreturned: apt-get install chromium-browser?
12:50<Neohasreturned>Ruusento, You mean aptitude install chromium-browser" lol
12:50<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, ;)
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12:50<anirban>Neohasreturned, don t use only chromium lol, if you use it will install chromium-bsu game :D
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12:50<Neohasreturned>anirban, Is that not a good thing then?
12:51<robinetd>anirban: That appears to have been changed.
12:51<anirban>thats a game
12:51<robinetd>ii chromium 12.0.742.91~r8 Chromium browser
12:51<jhutchins_lt>Neohasreturned: I like it and don't have any motivation to install, configure, and compare xchat, although I've used it in the past. It's pretty similar and is well integrated with kde.
12:51<Neohasreturned>jhutchins, I am a gnome user does that matter?
12:51<jhutchins_lt>Neohasreturned: Not really.
12:52-!-r4co0n [] has joined #debian
12:52<Neohasreturned>Good point actually when I downloaded debian squeeze it didn't give me options for gnome or kde which is standard?
12:53-!-DocHifi [] has joined #debian
12:53<tal>Hi all. Does anyone know a tool for MPRIS v2.0 in Debian? As far from what I've found, only Ubuntu support it via soundmenu2.
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12:53<daemonkeeper>If you enabled "Desktop" in the d-i prompt, it will install Gnome, unless you downloaded the KDE edition of CD1
12:53<anirban>p chromium - transitional dummy package for chromium-bsu robinetd
12:53<Ruusento>anirban: chromium-bsu it's a game
12:54<Zaba>anirban, it's different in different suites
12:54<robinetd>anirban: Perhaps it was only changed in testing.
12:54<Neohasreturned>Ok guys well I will burn the disc and boot it in live cd and give it a go will let you know how I get on
12:54<anirban>robinetd, yes , may be , i am on stable
12:54<Zaba>from wheezy on, chromium is the browser
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12:55<Zaba>(and chromium-browser is a transitional package)
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12:55<Neohasreturned>Bye all will report back
12:56<anirban>that what i am using Kernel i686 (32 bit) Desktop Openbox Distro Debian GNU/Linux 6.0
12:56<anirban>its not changed for stable
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12:57<Neohasreturned>Sorry one last thing what is difference between i386 and i686?
12:57<anirban>loongson, just ask
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12:57<tal>Does anyone know a good tool for MPRIS 2?
12:57<anirban>Neohasreturned, its microprocessor arch
12:57<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, consider them the same thing - i386 "ususally" mean i686 these days
12:57<anirban>8386 and 8686
12:57-!-shiloh25 [] has joined #debian
12:57<Neohasreturned>Phew I started burning the i386 and saw anirban message lol
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12:58<loongson>How to find a speed-up mirror for debian squeeze?
12:58<anirban>btw Neohasreturned that a custom kernel
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12:58<Neohasreturned>anirban, Have i downloaded the right one then?
12:58<anirban>loongson, try different mirror , use neares location
12:59<anirban>Neohasreturned, yes
12:59<anirban>i386 = 32 bit
12:59<Neohasreturned>I have debian-
12:59<loongson>is apt-spy a good choice?
12:59<lindi->akerl: moved to #debian-offtopic already :)
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12:59<anirban>neo yes its gnome with basic application 32 bit
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13:00<Neohasreturned>anirban, OK cool well I will be back in a bit
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13:01<sney>loongson: if you have dns from your isp, you can set your mirror as and it will download from the closest, which is often the fastest
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13:09<Neohasreturned>Hey I just ran the disc it didn't give me an option to run as livecd just to install or install as gui?
13:10<sney>the livecd and the install cd are different
13:10<Neohasreturned>when I went to the downloads page it didn't give me the option it just said cd1 and vice versa?
13:10<sney>you can get a livecd from
13:11-!-mode/#debian [+l 504] by debhelper
13:11<sney>the downloads page has the installers, livecds are a different thing
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13:12<Neohasreturned>sney, Ah right ok I have just wasted a cd now lol
13:12-!-ivo_ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:12<Neohasreturned>Is this the one I need
13:12<sney>Neohasreturned: not necessarily, if you still want to install
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13:13<sney>that would show you a pretty standard debian with gnome
13:13<Neohasreturned>sney, At the mo I am using Ubuntu and don't want to overwrite yet
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13:13<sney>you could install debian inside virtualbox if you don't want to download another iso
13:13-!-ivo_ [] has joined #debian
13:13<Neohasreturned>sney, Is that not what I need then?
13:14-!-ml| [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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13:14<sney>only you can say for sure what you need. I can help you understand what things are, but that's it
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13:14<Neohasreturned>sney, I wanna try before I commit thats all lol I like gnome tho
13:15<sney>ok. the livecd is exactly what it says. if you want to try debian with gnome from a livecd, then that link is what you want.
13:15<Neohasreturned>sney, Cool thanks will try it
13:17<Neohasreturned>sney, Ok for some reason the file is 1.1gb its not a cd file?
13:17<sney>hybrid means it can be written to a disc (dvd in this case) or a flash/external drive
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13:18<Neohasreturned>sney, Does that mean I can install it to usb? if so how do I do that?
13:19<sney>you're in ubuntu, right? once it's downloaded, insert your usb key, find the device name, then do cat debian-live-foo.iso > /dev/sdb
13:19<sney>where debian-live-foo.iso is the iso you downloaded and /dev/sdb is the name of your usb key.
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13:19<sney>and then 'sync' and reboot
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13:20<Neohasreturned>sney, I'll just burn it sounds easier lol
13:20-!-__iron [] has joined #debian
13:20<sney>the gnome environment is unfortunately too big for a 700M cd
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13:20<sney>it's not really any easier, you just percieve it as being easier because you've done it before.
13:20<Neohasreturned>Ubuntu gnome runs off a cd tho lol
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13:20<sney>ubuntu does things differently.
13:21<Neohasreturned>sney, Well I suppose it just sounds hard
13:21<Neohasreturned>sney, Hopefully Debian wont be too alien for me
13:21-!-iubuntu [~iubuntu@] has quit []
13:21<sney>the gnome interface will be basically the same
13:22<sney>debian just offers more stability, more options, and better standards for a lot of things.
13:22<Neohasreturned>sney, Using it wont be tho will it in terms of installing codecs and wireless?
13:23<Neohasreturned>sney, Is it alot better than Ubuntu or because you lot use it you sell it lol
13:23<sney>codecs are installed just like any other software package - sometimes you have to add another software repository, but you can do that in synaptic.
13:24<sney>wireless can be easy or a pain depending on what wifi card you have.
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13:24<Neohasreturned>sney, I mean I use multimedia codecs. My wireless card is a ralink 802.11g/g
13:25<Neohasreturned>that was supposed to be b/g lol
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13:27<Neohasreturned>Can I install debian from the live cd after I finish testing it?
13:27<sney>the multimedia stuff that can't be included in debian for patent/license/legality reasons is available from
13:27<sney>yes, I think you can now.
13:27<sney>the livecd is a separate project but I remember they added that recently
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13:29<Neohasreturned>Does that mean I will have to install these codecs one by one off the website list?
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13:29<sney>Neohasreturned: nope, you can add it to your software sources and install with synaptic/aptitude/apt-get just like anything else
13:29<anirban>Neohasreturned, just install gnome-mplayer and audacious
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13:30<Neohasreturned>anirban, Why what does that install then?
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13:32<anirban>Neohasreturned, gnome-mplayer [ actually mplayer ] you canplay all vid and audio codes
13:32<Neohasreturned>anirban, What about dvd playback?
13:32<anirban>btw i like audacious as mp3 player
13:32<anirban>Neohasreturned, that too
13:32<anirban>its alo play mkv files
13:33<Neohasreturned>anirban, VLC is the best media playe
13:33-!-loongson [~loongson@] has joined #debian
13:33<anirban>vlc use indirect interface its slower
13:33<anirban>but its good
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13:34<ivo_>the best music player for me is rhythmbox
13:35<ivo_>I have a huge library
13:35<anirban>ivo_, mpd :P
13:35<Neohasreturned>ivo_, What music you like then?
13:35<ivo_>and it makes it simple to navigate through and play music
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13:35<ivo_><Neohasreturned>, what dose this have to do with the player?
13:36<Neohasreturned>ivo_, Sorry was been socialable lol
13:36<ivo_>all kinds of metal
13:36<ivo_>and classical music
13:36<Neohasreturned>ivo_, My fave genre
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13:37<ivo_>Bring Your Daughter... To The Slaughter by Iron Maiden from No Prayer For The Dying
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13:37<Neohasreturned>ivo_, Love maiden and a7x
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13:39<Neohasreturned>ivo_, infinite dreams iron maiden seventh son album
13:40<Neohasreturned>ivo_, You like serenity?
13:40<ivo_>Be Quick Or Be Dead by Iron Maiden from Fear Of The Dark
13:40<angasule>friggin' iceweasel, crashes all the friggin' time
13:40<Neohasreturned>Afraid to shoot strangers
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13:41<angasule>is mozilla hiring videogame programmers or what?
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13:41<ivo_>never heard them
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13:41<Neohasreturned>ivo_, Its off fear of the dark album lol
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13:41<ivo_>o uups
13:42<ivo_>I tough you mean a band
13:42<ivo_>called serenity
13:42<Neohasreturned>ivo_, You mean serenity I recommend them google them austrain power metal
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13:43<ivo_>this guys?
13:45<Neohasreturned>check them out on youtube
13:45<ivo_>Kill the King by Megadeth from Capitol Punishment
13:46<Neohasreturned>Megadeth what a band and metallica
13:46<Neohasreturned>ivo_, I take it your more into trad metal
13:46<ivo_>I wanted to go to metallica, megadeth, slayer & anthrax
13:46<ivo_>but there were no more tickets
13:46<ivo_>thrash, black, death
13:47<Neohasreturned>ivo_, What about gothic?
13:47<ivo_>not so much
13:47<ivo_>it is a bit boring
13:47<ivo_>but not to bad
13:48<Neohasreturned>ivo_, I love goth metal
13:48<Neohasreturned>ivo_, What about Machine Head & Pantera?
13:48-!-aranax [~aranax@] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
13:48<ivo_>never listen to nither of this bands
13:49<ivo_>but I have some cds from pantera
13:49*akerl ponders why OS design is OT, but music is not...
13:49<Neohasreturned>Pantera Cowboys From Hell album epic
13:50<ivo_>Cowboys From Hell by Pantera from Cowboys From Hell
13:50<ivo_>now listening to it
13:50<ivo_>not bad
13:50<Neohasreturned>Machine Head The Blackening Album you wanna get
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13:50<jhutchins_lt>Perhaps you could continue this in #debian-offtopic? It is not appropriate here.
13:51<ivo_>or on pm
13:53<dselect>#debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
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14:15<Neohasreturned>Hey I have just checked out Debian Live Cd it looks quite smart except wireless don't work and it has the network-manager-gnome already installed?
14:17<Neohasreturned>ZykoticK9_, You still here?
14:17<MrFrood>Neohasreturned: might be a firmware issue, try asking in #debian-live if you get no answer here
14:17<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, ya, what's up?
14:18<Neohasreturned>ZykoticK9_, I have tested the live cd out and I checked and the network-manager-gnome is installed but my wireless card is disconnected?
14:18<Neohasreturned>MrFrood, Thanks
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14:18<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, i haven't personally had the best luck with the debian-livecd. what wireless card are you using? if it requires non-free firmware, i'd image you're still out of luck with the livecd
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14:19<Neohasreturned>ZykoticK9_, I have a ralink 802.11b/g
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14:20<dselect>Ralink Technology Corp. is a wireless LAN chipset manufacturer. Drivers for many Ralink chipsets are present in mainline Linux kernels, ask me about <rt2x00>. For support of 802.11n devices, ask me about <rt2800>.
14:21<Neohasreturned>MrFrood, My wireless card works fine in ubuntu and mint so I aint sure its that
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14:23<Neohasreturned>ZykoticK9_, If it doesn't work with the livecd then I'm sure it would probs be the same with the normal install wouldn't it?
14:23<MrFrood>debian is far more strict about what it allows in the kernel than either ubuntu or mint
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14:24<Neohasreturned>MrFrood, But ralink is a popular brand if that was the case surely not many people could connect?
14:24<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, i'm not really familiar with ralink wireless, but i see a ralink firmware as well as suggestion to use ndiswrapper. Using wireless to do the initial install can be a pain - i strongly suggest ethernet connection for installation
14:24<MrFrood>Neohasreturned: there are "restricted" firmeare packages in the non-free repository
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14:26<Neohasreturned>ZykoticK9_, What is ndiswrapper so is there an easy way to fix the problel?
14:26<falcon>hello everybody
14:26<MrFrood>Neohasreturned: follow up on the messege from dselect by /msg dselect <factoid>
14:26<falcon>hi guys
14:26<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, check out the firmware first! ndiswrapper uses MS/Windows drivers on gnu/linux
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14:27<Neohasreturned>ZykoticK9_, How do I check the firmware?
14:27-!-cyn [~cyn@] has joined #debian
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14:27<MrFrood>Neohasreturned: for firmware see the message from dselect
14:27-!-cyn [~cyn@] has quit []
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14:28<Neohasreturned>MrFrood, It said parse error?
14:28<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, it appears firmware-ralink must be in the non-free (or contrib) repo, as it doesn't appear in my apt-cache search on my FAIF system
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14:29<Neohasreturned>ZykoticK9_, Does that mean theres no easy fix how about wcid?
14:29-!-mode/#debian [+o debhelper] by ChanServ
14:29<Neohasreturned>or wicd?
14:29<dselect>Ralink Technology Corp. is a wireless LAN chipset manufacturer. Drivers for many Ralink chipsets are present in mainline Linux kernels, ask me about <rt2x00>. For support of 802.11n devices, ask me about <rt2800>.
14:29<anirban>Neohasreturned, wicd-gtk
14:29<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, wicd is a network manager, i think you still need the driver/firmware
14:30<MrFrood>Neohasreturned: e.g. try /msg dselect rt2x00
14:30-!-Black_Prince [~Prince@] has joined #debian
14:30<Neohasreturned>ZykoticK9_, So I am probs better off with Ubuntu hate to say it lol
14:31<MrFrood>Neohasreturned: you just probablly have to install the appropiste non-free firmware package
14:31<Neohasreturned>MrFrood, Without sounding too thick I am a noob
14:31<sney>every one of us was a noob at some point
14:32<sney>it's just a question of willingness to learn
14:32-!-Neutron [~neutron@] has joined #debian
14:32<Neohasreturned>sney, I'm willing to learn I just don't understand how to find firmware drivers etc if it was windows I would be able to do it in 2 secs lol
14:32<MrFrood>yay a pro =waves to sney *
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14:33<MrFrood>sney: he has ralink wifi card - not working
14:33<sney>Neohasreturned: let MrFroodand the other people here help you. if they tell you you need to do something, and you don't know how, say "can you tell me how to do that?"
14:33<Neohasreturned>sney, Ok cool
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14:36<MrFrood>Neohasreturned: allthough not totally accurate it might help if you think of the "fimware" as a like a windows "driver"
14:37<Neohasreturned>MrFrood, Ok I take it I need a firmware update to make it work but where do I find one?
14:38<MrFrood>(multi part answer coming up)
14:38<Neohasreturned>Cool lol
14:38<MrFrood>in the repositories
14:38<Neohasreturned>Where are the repositories lol
14:38-!-dakota [] has joined #debian
14:38<MrFrood>Debian classifies software according to it's licence
14:38-!-sylar [] has joined #debian
14:39<MrFrood>the "main" repository has no restrictions
14:39<MrFrood>the "contrib" is unresricted software that requires restricted software to work
14:40<MrFrood>and "non-free" is restricted software (in terms of its license)
14:40-!-dakota [] has quit []
14:40<Neohasreturned>Ok I get that
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14:41<Neohasreturned>But how do I know which repository I need
14:42<MrFrood>the repositories are normally accessed by using apt or apptitude (or gui interface such as synaptic) but can be searched online at
14:43<MrFrood>Neohasreturned: try looking at
14:43-!-mercutio22 [~mercutio2@] has joined #debian
14:44<Neohasreturned>MrFrood, I have looked at it but how do I find which model my wireless card it?
14:44-!-pasquier [] has joined #debian
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14:45-!-wolf [] has left #debian [Ухожу я от вас (xchat 2.4.5 или старше)]
14:45<lindi->MrFrood: also it's important to note that contrib and non-free are not part of debian
14:46<Jonny>hey, i got problems. I tried ubuntu 64 bit, but it still doesn't see all my (6 gigs) of memory, will the 64 bit (amd) stil work for me?
14:46<sney>Neohasreturned: open up a terminal and paste this: lspci -nn |grep -i net
14:46<sney>!otherchannel Jonny #ubuntu
14:46<sney>%otherchannel Jonny #ubuntu
14:46<dselect>Jonny: The channel you are looking for is #ubuntu on Please do /server and then /join #ubuntu. If your client supports it, you can also right-click the following link and choose connect: irc://
14:46<Jonny>no iv already asked help from them, i want to try debian now
14:46-!-wolf [] has joined #debian
14:47<ompaul>then install debian and join us after that
14:47<sney>my amd64 debian machine sees all 6GB of its memory
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14:47<Neohasreturned>sney I think it is Realtek RTL-8139
14:47-!-ra [] has joined #debian
14:48<sney>rtl-8139 is not a wireless card, it's a realtek wired ethernet adapter
14:48-!-slavek [] has quit []
14:48<Jonny>im pretty sure my cpu is i386, should i still install the amd64 ?
14:48<Neohasreturned>sney, Oh ok lol well thats what came up when you asked me to paste that command is
14:49<Neohasreturned>Jonny, Was your computer ever 64bit?
14:49<sney>Neohasreturned: any other output?
14:49<Jonny>not until today when i installed ubuntu 64-bit
14:49<Neohasreturned>sney, No just that
14:49<Neohasreturned>Jonny, Anything 32bit wont pick up more than 4gb of ram
14:50<Jonny>i know, thats why im trying to upgrade to 64 bit
14:50<sney>Neohasreturned: try lsusb
14:50<sney>Jonny: what cpu?
14:50<MadGirl>cpu is probably 96% idle, it's AMD phenom 4core. I've stopped everything except ssh and mdadm and unmounted the file systems using the array device
14:50<Neohasreturned>Jonny, Also you cant upgrade to 64 bit you can only downgrade if your chip has the facility to
14:50<Jonny>iv seen all 6 gigs in bios though...
14:51-!-mode/#debian [+l 505] by debhelper
14:51<Neohasreturned>Jonny, It'll tell you its there just wont use it
14:51<sney>Jonny: what cpu do you have?
14:51<Jonny>Intel core 2 cpu
14:51-!-sim [] has joined #debian
14:53<sney>Jonny: if you're in windows, run msinfo32 and see what model the cpu is
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14:53<Neohasreturned>sney, I'm sure 32bit wont use more than 4gb ram thats why they brought out 64bit?
14:54<sney>Neohasreturned: debian has 'bigmem' 32-bit kernels that can see past the 4gb limit
14:54<sney>native 64-bit is still better if it's supported, though.
14:54<Black_Prince>Jonny, install kernel with pae enabled to allow addressing more than 4GB of memory in 32bit environment
14:54<Neohasreturned>sney, Thats cool that it allows full use then windows money making idiots lol
14:54<Jonny>hey black_prince!!
14:54<Jonny>remember me?
14:55<Black_Prince>I don't remember myself right now :/
14:55-!-mozybonz [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
14:55<Jonny>haha no problems
14:55<Neohasreturned>sney, Did you get my pm with the details?
14:55<sney>Neohasreturned: I don't know why it isn't showing your wireless device anywhere. is this a laptop? is there a switch to turn the wifi on and off?
14:55<Jonny>anyways, what do u mean by installing kernel with pae enabled?
14:56<Neohasreturned>sney, I am using a laptop and it is switched on i'm using wireless as we speak
14:56<dselect>For i386, -bigmem linux-images support up to 64 GB of RAM on squeeze and lenny systems supporting <PAE>. If you have more than about 3.4 GB of RAM, install and use this to see everything past the sub ~3.4 GB limit (but with additional CPU overhead). Alternatively, if you have a <x86-64> processor, use an -amd64 linux-image instead. See also <686-pae>.
14:56<Jonny>ok, am i being suggested to install a certain debian kernel?
14:57<sney>Jonny: I would suggest finding out exactly which cpu you have first.
14:57<sney>Black_Prince was getting ahead of the game there
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14:58<sney>Neohasreturned: can you copy the entire output of 'lspci -nn' to and link it here?
14:58<Jonny>well i tried the ubuntu 64 bit on another pc and it wouldn't because it said CPU not supported, however on the computer im talking about it installed fine just didn't show 6 gigs on some commands
14:58<Jonny>if it worked on that one pc, shouldn't the CPU be fine?
14:58-!-anto [~anto@] has joined #debian
14:58<Jonny>ok, so we can rule out CPU compatibility right
14:58<sney>in that case install the amd64 port. I don't know what ubuntu changed to make the memory not show up.
14:58<Jonny>alright ill try amd64
14:58<sney>since this is the Debian support channel, most of us don't know much about ubuntu.
14:59<Jonny>ok, i don't mean to talk in the wrong IRC, just guna try debian for seeing all my memory
14:59<Neohasreturned>sney, It didn't bring anything up bearing in mind I'm using Ubuntu so not sure it will
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15:01<Neohasreturned>sney, Thanks for your help but if I can't get it to work so be it lol
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15:02<sney>Neohasreturned: lspci is a common utility that shows all of the devices on your pci bus. it's the same across all linux distributions.
15:02<sney>Neohasreturned: so I don't know why you would say "it didn't bring up anything" when I said you should paste everything it said to that website I linked
15:03<Neohasreturned>sney, The last command you gave me I pasted it in pressed enterand nothing came up
15:03<sney>what command
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15:03<booom>what hypervisor do you suggest for systems that do not support hardware virtualization?
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15:04<Neohasreturned>sney, Its ok got it working now when I paste it do I just click send?
15:04<sney>it'll give you a link to share
15:05<lindi->booom: xen
15:05<lindi->booom: user-mode-linux
15:06<sney>Neohasreturned: ok, now do the same thing, but with 'lsusb'
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15:06<daemonkeeper>Better question is, what do you want to achieve
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15:06<daemonkeeper>Xen and UML are somewhat orthogonal to each other
15:06<daemonkeeper>Although they server to a similar purpose
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15:08<sney>Neohasreturned: ok, so you have rt73usb, and you need the firmware-ralink package.
15:08<Neohasreturned>sney, Ok cool so how do I get that lol
15:09<sney> the download link is at the bottom, labeled 'all'
15:09<Jonny>could i just live-cd debian to see if it can view the RAM?
15:09<sney>Jonny: sure.
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15:09<Jonny>so do i chose Install on the menu?
15:10<sney>Jonny: the livecd and the install cd are different images
15:10<Jonny>ah shh
15:10<booom>lindi-: afaik, both technologies prerequire hardware virtualization, especially Xen. daemonkeeper, I just wanna use a few other Unixess in parallel in order to play around a bit
15:10<daemonkeeper>booom: In fact unixes or did you mean Linux?
15:10<ra>hello everybody, who have compiz problem like desktop freeze? to see the proc you have open a terminal and write >>> cat /proc/cpuinfo <<<
15:11<sney>Neohasreturned: that's the one. once you have that file downloaded, install it from the terminal with dpkg -i
15:11<daemonkeeper>UML/lxc/linux-vserver all don't require hardware assisted virtualization but their purpose is to run a Linux kernel in a context switched chroot
15:11<booom>daemonkeeper: both, and Redmond and Apple shit
15:11<mjr>xen doesn't require hw virtualization, though then it does require a paravirtualized kernel
15:11<Neohasreturned>sney, Its a deb file can't I just double click on it?
15:12<daemonkeeper>For those systems you do need hardware virtualization, booom.
15:12<sney>Neohasreturned: I think so. I haven't tried it personally
15:12<daemonkeeper>Otherwise all you can do is to run software emulation which is sloooooooooow, e.g. in qemu
15:12<booom>daemonkeeper, k, thanks
15:13<Ruusento>daemonkeeper: and why not, OpenVZ
15:13<Neohasreturned>sney, Yeah just double click on it so when I install that it should work then?
15:13<sney>that's all you need yes
15:13<daemonkeeper>Ruusento: That's again a container.
15:13<Neohasreturned>sney, You are a legend
15:13<sney>I try
15:13<sney>I hope you learned
15:13<Jonny>eh, hate to ask this, but if i wanted to overwrite the ubuntu partition.. which partition can i know is the ubuntu?
15:13<Jonny>i see information im not too familiar with
15:14<Black_Prince>Jonny, just type mount ... It *should* be first one :)
15:14<sney>figure it out by size, or reboot back into ubuntu to look
15:14<Neohasreturned>sney, well I learned that I need the driver but I couldn't remember how to do it again I would just save the deb file lol
15:14<daemonkeeper>Ruusento: OpenVZ is paravirtualization like Xen PV
15:14<Ruusento>daemonkeeper: you were talking about paravirtualization
15:14<daemonkeeper>Ruusento: I didn't mention PV until right above
15:15<Ruusento>oh, sorry :P
15:15<Jonny>would i begin with "erase data on this partition" ?
15:15<Neohasreturned>sney, One more question before I go when I install debian which codecs would I need for multimedia?
15:15<lindi->booom: xen and user-mode-linux work without any hardware virtualization extensions
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15:15<booom>lindi-, ok
15:15<daemonkeeper>But UML at least only can boot Linux
15:15<sney>Neohasreturned: in my experience, once you have vlc installed, you don't need any. but there's a chance you might need libavcodec52... it's pretty easy to install, much less of a big deal than firmware
15:15<daemonkeeper>(of course)
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15:16<Neohasreturned>sney, When I installed ubuntu I needed to install a codec to play dvds and I need one for mp3
15:17<sney>I'm pretty sure all you need is ffmpeg which tags along when you install media player software.
15:17<sney>I don't know how ubuntu handles that
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15:18<Neohasreturned>was that ffmpeg the libavcodec52?
15:19-!-lord_rob [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:19<Black_Prince>libavcodec52 is built from ffmpeg source ...
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15:19<lindi->sney: seems to document the ubuntu part. it's interesting that debian plays mp3 but ubuntu doesn't ;)
15:19<Neohasreturned>Cool cool thanks Black_Prince
15:19<sney>in any case, I've never had to do anything extra to get media playback working
15:19<Black_Prince>So it is ffmpeg ... But debian libavcodec does not support some formats, since it is free software
15:20<daemonkeeper>booom: To summarize: You can fairly fast Linux systems which are either paravirtualized or sharing a patched kernel with the host system, but for unmodified guest systems all which comes me in mind is Qemu.
15:20<ZykoticK9_>Neohasreturned, for commercial dvd mplayback you might need libdvdcss2 from d-m (which also has w32codecs/w64codecs)
15:20-!-Blacker47 [] has joined #debian
15:21<Neohasreturned>Right I am gonna install debian wish me luck lol before I go I did burn 2 discs a cd1 and a live dvd which is best to use?
15:21<Black_Prince>Also, Debian has gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg installed by default with totem media player unless recommends is turned off
15:21<Black_Prince>Neohasreturned, If it is your fist time, use live dvd.
15:21<Neohasreturned>Black_Prince, Install it via live dvd?
15:21<booom>daemonkeeper: I am familiar with qemu. I used it years ago. But, starting with version 11/12 or something, they stopped support for a technology that did let me run VMs at a reasonable speed without hardware assistance
15:22<daemonkeeper>booom: Well, that's a common problem these days, since hardware virtualization is the way to go :)
15:22<Black_Prince>Neohasreturned, yes. It should be much simpler if you are a newbie. Install from DVD's isn't that hard, but I guess it will skip some software.
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15:23<Neohasreturned>Black_Prince, Ok thanks well if I need anymore hope I'm sure you lot would be there to help me like you already have
15:24<Neohasreturned>sney, ZykoticK9_ & Black_Prince thanks for your help much appreciated
15:24<sney>no problem, it's what we're here for
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15:24<Black_Prince>also thanks for reminding me
15:24<Black_Prince>I was looking for 6.0.2 live builds to finish ... I want to dl them
15:25<Black_Prince>damn, still not there
15:25<Neohasreturned>Black_Prince, no probs
15:25<Neohasreturned>Can I just say this room are alot more supportive than any other distro I been in
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15:27<Neohasreturned>So apart from the issue I had with wireless I shouldn't have any other problems?
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15:28<Black_Prince>You may have a problem with no updates available, so you start to panic and think you have broken update manager ... heh
15:28<Black_Prince>But that's just the fact that debian is stable and does not recieve updates really often (security fixes only)
15:29<Neohasreturned>so apart from libavcodec52 and libdvdcss I shouldn't need any others oh and Gstreamer?
15:29<daemonkeeper>No updates at all, just backports.
15:30-!-user01 [~user01@] has joined #debian
15:30<Black_Prince>Neohasreturned, gstreamer should be there by default along with libavcodec if you are going to install via live cd ...
15:31-!-user01 [~user01@] has quit []
15:31<Neohasreturned>Black_Prince, Yeah I will use the live dvd
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15:32<Neohasreturned>does k3b work on debian do you know?
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15:32<daemonkeeper>Why don't you just try it out?
15:32<Black_Prince>Neohasreturned, yup, but you may have to install it later
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15:33<Neohasreturned>daemonkeeper, I will do now
15:33<Neohasreturned>Black_Prince, Why's that?
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15:38<Neohasreturned>Right guys am off to install debian I will see you again no doubt
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15:41<daemonkeeper>(except he didn't manage to setup networking)
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15:41<sney>how could he, he was still inside his ubuntu install
15:41<sney>besides, rt73usb is pretty painless when firmware is present
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15:42<ilostx11>Hello guys
15:42<ilostx11>Please help me
15:43<sney>I take it from your nick that you lost X, but can you describe your problem, as well as what debian version you're using and what you tried to do?
15:43<ilostx11>today i've installed debian stable on my intel based mac mini and I saw a horrible picture
15:43-!-xharx [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:43<ilostx11>it caused by nv driver, then...
15:43<ilostx11>i've updated it with proprietary nvidia driver
15:43<daemonkeeper>Are you sure you are running Squeeze?
15:44<ilostx11>it's very strange
15:44<ilostx11>yes! KDM is OK
15:44<ilostx11>after logon i see this..
15:44<daemonkeeper>This issue is known with the b0rked nvidia driver in Sid
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15:44<Jonny>eh u guys,
15:44<ilostx11>i think it bad memory allocating routines
15:44<sney>Jonny: ?
15:44<Jonny>so i just deleted a partition, took forever
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15:45<ilostx11>it's very horrible !
15:45<ilostx11>nvidia drivers
15:45<Jonny>and when i click on "finish partition and write changes to disk" it says no root system detected
15:45<Jonny>"no root file system defined"
15:45<ilostx11>i lost the truth
15:46<ilostx11>sometimes it works sometimes not
15:46<ilostx11>screen going to flash, showa random pixels
15:46<babilen>!tell ilostx11 -about enter
15:46<babilen>%tell ilostx11 -about enter
15:47<ilostx11>sorry guys for "enter". i really dunno what to do with this problem.
15:47<jhutchins_lt>Jonny: What are you working with? The installer? Gparted?
15:47<babilen>Jonny: During the installation? You have to configure a root filesystem on one of the partitions. (/)
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15:47<Jonny>im install debian, and i wanted to overwrite the ubuntu parition
15:47<Jonny>im in graphical installer
15:48<jhutchins_lt>Jonny: There is a competition/challenge on to read all the data from a 500 GB drive in one hour or less. One condition is that the drive must still work at the end of the read. Big drives take time.
15:48<babilen>ilostx11: So, you've installed Debian? (Which version/image?) And you see these problems? How did you install the nvidia drivers?
15:48<ilostx11>debian amd64
15:48<jhutchins_lt>Jonny: You need to go back a step and create/define where the root partition is.
15:48<Jonny>im not complaining about time, i dont' know what to do
15:48<ilostx11>with module-assistant
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15:49<Jonny>ok im in "Partition disks" which do i select "guided partitioning, configure software RAID, configure the logical volume manager, configure encrypted volumes"
15:49<babilen>Jonny: You can configure what the filesystems/partitions will be used for. You have to configure one to be used as root (/)
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15:51<babilen>Jonny: Depends on what you want to do, we know nothing about your setup, knowledge and what you are trying to achieve. If you could tell us in a bit more detail what your goal is we can probably give better advice.
15:51-!-polipo [] has quit []
15:51<babilen>Jonny: You might also want to read:
15:51<Black_Prince>Jonny, are you using manual partitioning?
15:51<ilostx11>who knows how to solve this problem
15:52<babilen>Jonny: Appendix C (linked from there) is worth a look too.
15:52<Jonny>ok, im trying to install amd64 debian overwrite my ubuntu installation. I seem to have found it, just erased the partition (maybe shoudln't have) and now I dont know how to continue
15:52<babilen>Jonny: You have to select it to be used as root (i.e. /)
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15:52<ilostx11>as I remember with just 6.0.0 video worked well
15:52<babilen>Jonny: When you hit enter on one of the partitions there is something like "Use for" or so ...
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15:53<dselect>The Debian Installation Guide for Squeeze (6.0) can be found at . See also <errata> <firmware images> <installer firmware> <release notes>.
15:53<Jonny>yeah thanks dselect
15:53<Jonny>babilen: i found a "how to use this partition"
15:53<jhutchins_lt>Jonny: It would be useful to give that a quick scan as well, it will help avoid problems further on in the installation.
15:53-!-fabrianchi [~fabrianch@] has joined #debian
15:53<Jonny>there are a lot of options
15:53<babilen>Jonny: I linked you to the installation guide on partitioning before :)
15:53<babilen>Jonny: Yeah, that sounds about right.
15:53<ilostx11>babilen, any thoughts?
15:54<babilen>ilostx11: Not really, are you sure that you are using squeeze and that you haven't add any other repositories? (This happened in sid)
15:55<babilen>ilostx11: It might be quite interesting to see the output of "lspci -nn|grep -i vga", your Xorg configuration as well as /var/log/Xorg.0.log though. Please put that all in a single pastebin (i.e. )
15:55<Jonny>do i use as fat16/32 or.. ext 2 3 4.?
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15:55<ilostx11>this one: debian-
15:55<jhutchins_lt>Jonny: ext3
15:55<babilen>Jonny: ext3 or ext4 is a good choice.
15:56<jhutchins_lt>Jonny: I recommend one partition + swap of 2x RAM
15:56<Jonny>ok, i need to see all my gigs of ram, so this decision doesnt matter right?
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15:56<jhutchins_lt>Jonny: Correct.
15:56<babilen>Jonny: More conservative people (such as me) would recommend ext3 over ext4
15:56<daemonkeeper>There is virtually no point though
15:56<Jonny>how is ext3 a conervative choice?
15:57*Black_Prince also recommends ext3 with noatime over ext4
15:57<jhutchins_lt>Jonny: It's been around longer, more software knows how to work with it.
15:57<daemonkeeper>ext4 is exactly the same disk layout as ext3 (or ext2).
15:57<babilen>I find the RAMx2 partitioning scheme in times of 4-48 GB RAM on home computers a bit dated.
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15:57<jhutchins_lt>Jonny: ext4 is one of those things where if you don't know that you need it, you don't need it.
15:58<jhutchins_lt>babilen: I have a more complicated one that I would reommend if it looked like someone was doing a big sciene project system.
15:58<babilen>jhutchins_lt: Oh, don't hold it back. What would it be?
15:58*babilen is curious
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15:58<jhutchins_lt>babilen: It does cut back on the 10GB swap setups though.
15:58<Jonny>i need to see all 7 gigs of my ram, im going to chose "Ext journaling file system" that ok?
15:59<Jonny>left out the important bit
15:59<jhutchins_lt>babilen: I usually recommend that you taper from 2x at 2G to 1X at 4G.
15:59<jhutchins_lt>Jonny: Your filesystem is not going to affect your RAM.
15:59<ilostx11>and the one question, sorry, how "unstable" is stable, maybe for desktop unstable debian is might better?
15:59<babilen>jhutchins_lt: Yeah, that sounds sensible. I wouldn't recommend a 96GB swap partition.
15:59<dselect>Unstable is the status of a Debian release when packages can be added at any time, that can disrupt the integrity of the whole system! Ask me about <break>. If you have to ask whether you should use it or how, you shouldn't. See also <testing>, <sid>, <sid faq>, <apt-listbugs>, <apt-listchanges>, <bts>.
15:59<jhutchins_lt>Jonny: You will need either the bigmem kernel or the amd64 kernel.
15:59<Jonny>i didn't think so but im asking noob questions just to be extra cautious
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16:00<Jonny>i got amd64
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16:00<babilen>ilostx11: Debian stable is (as the name implies) absolutely stable. (/msg dselect stable)
16:00<jhutchins_lt>Jonny: You'll be fine then. The flash player can be a little rough, but it works.
16:00<Jonny>alright... um iv selected "how to use" it but....
16:00<Jonny>oh i need to chose "mount point" ?
16:01<babilen>ilostx11: But you might have wanted to ask: »How "unstable" is unstable« though
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16:01<syntaur>What do you all think of LVM for partitioning? I used it for the first time the other day on my home server. Seems.. interesting..
16:01<babilen>Jonny: Please read the installation guide -- It is all explained in there in great detail. Make sure to read Appendix C too -- But yeah, that is what you want.
16:01<ilostx11>dm_crypt+LVM=great stuff
16:01<Jonny>ok thanks a lot, I appreciate it
16:02<Jonny>(from a newb)
16:02<ilostx11>for notebooks as well
16:03<babilen>Jonny: Sure -- You will find that the setup you come up with right now is probably not the best and that you'll want to change it in the future. I personally prefer to use LVM, but that will add another layer that you do not understand (yet) and I would just start with what you have now. Once you *know* what you want and how to use it you can reinstall.
16:03<babilen>ilostx11: didn't you want to paste some information?
16:04<ilostx11>i want sure but i killed linux partition ..
16:04<ilostx11>after that
16:04<babilen>ilostx11: Ok, there is not much we can do to help then.
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16:05<ilostx11>i will try tomorrow again
16:05<babilen>ilostx11: You said that 6.0.0 was fine, so the problem *might* be due to one of the point updated. But that is all very hard to debug if you do not use the system.
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16:05<babilen>ilostx11: You could install with 6.0.0 and see if it works. Upgrade and try to reproduce the error. We also need to see your configuration and the logs. :)
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16:06<ilostx11>good thank you - where i can download 6.0.0
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16:08<ilostx11>i can describe a problem more, so when framebuffer is enabled, after init i see KDM normally, then i enter my login and password and then cursor is OK but background like picture 1
16:08<ilostx11>so - mouse cursor is OK/KDM too
16:09<ilostx11>when framebuffer is disabled, screen just flashes before KDM and after login, then works
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16:09<ilostx11>but sometimes the same random pixels
16:10<jhutchins_lt>ilostx11: Have you run memtest86+ on the system?
16:10<ilostx11>yes it's ok with apple hardware tool (or like that) 2nd disk
16:10<booom>when is testing to be updated again? I thought it happens weekly on an automated basis... last time was June 20...
16:11<babilen>ilostx11: I would very much like to see the logs for that and testing your hardware is probably quite a good idea. I really doubt that installing 6.0.0 is the solution, but you said that everything was fine with it, so I believe you :)
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16:11<babilen>booom: Testing is continuously updated. What makes you believe that June 20th was the last update?
16:11-!-Mavado [] has quit []
16:12<babilen>.... or is there something going on that I am not aware of, because I've been on holidays?
16:12<ilostx11>thanks to all. i will do memtest again, reinstall debian and send you logs. ;0
16:12<booom>babilen: sorry for inaccuracy, I mean the CD/DVD images
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16:13<babilen>booom: The preferred way is to install stable and upgrade from there. Please note that we have a specific channel for wheezy/sid users (#debian-next) and I would recommend reading the FAQ
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16:14<babilen>booom: Not sure what goes on at the CD front ...
16:14<booom>babilen: when one intends to use testing it is preferred to first download stable and upgrade from there instead of downloading testing images directly?
16:14<babilen>booom: indeed
16:14<booom>babilen, lol?
16:14<booom>who says?
16:14<babilen>booom: Perform a minimal installation and upgrade from there. What is there to "little old ladies" about?
16:14<babilen>booom: I say that :)
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16:15*daemonkeeper seconds
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16:15<booom>babilen: so these permanently renewed testing images have no real right to exist?
16:16<babilen>booom: You have to differentiate between the testing debian-installer and the testing packages. I would strongly recommend to use a stable installer (unless you have good reasons not to and even then better alternatives might exist) and testing in the sense of "all the packages that comprise testing"
16:16<daemonkeeper>They do, but their purpose is to test the debian-installer (d-i)
16:16<jhutchins_lt>booom: The installer tends to lag behind general development, and no, they are an appropriate offline source.
16:16<booom>daemonkeeper, makes sense
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16:17<booom>babilen, jhutchins_lt, comprehensible...
16:17<jhutchins_lt>booom: Also, if your intention is to have the "Latest, Greatest" Debian rather than to test the new software for bugfixes and development purposes, you might want to install stable and stick with it instead.
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16:17<booom>jhutchins_lt: Debian stable is maybe the greatest distribution but surely not the latest :)
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16:18<jhutchins_lt>booom: It is the latest stable release.
16:18-!-Mr007 [~neutron@] has quit []
16:18<booom>and although I like stable software I do not want to use ancient stuff
16:18<jhutchins_lt>Sigh. /msg dslect sns syndrome.
16:19<booom>I am wondering why there are no Debian images that installs a testing Debian system with a stable installer...
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16:20<daemonkeeper>booom: Because there is no point to. The purpose of the d-i is to install the next Debian release.
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16:20<babilen>booom: Take a look at -- which I wrote some time ago. And also read -- The mail is a bit old, but still summarises the main concepts.
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16:21<babilen>booom: In particular the URLs for backports changed.
16:22<booom>I mean, does anyone have statistics about how many percent are using what degree of stability (stable to unstable) of Debian on workstations (not servers)?
16:22<daemonkeeper>How do you measure stability?
16:22<Black_Prince>booom, mostly there are many more stable{+backports} than testing/unstable ones :P
16:23<booom>daemonkeeper: I meant stable/testing/unstable
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16:24<babilen>not many corporate users hang out in the forums -- heavily biased sample selection
16:25<Black_Prince>That one is enough for now :)
16:25<Black_Prince>I didn't vote on that one, even I am registered
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16:27<babilen>The sample is way too small, basing this on the Forums is introducing a strong bias towards testing/unstable (I would argue) and one should make decisions because one understands the ramifications, not because a majority does it.
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16:31<booom>according to the poll Black_Prince linked to, most people are using testing (including me) what, IMHO, indicates that there is indeed the need for images that install a testing system using a stable installer. Without we are all encouraged to install a stable system in order to upgrade from it...
16:31<Jonny>ok i have installed the amd64 debian
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16:31<Jonny>is it possible to have amd64 debian and not see all of my RAM?
16:31<babilen>Jonny: Why would you want that?
16:31-!-s3a [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:31<Jonny>I want to see all of my RAM
16:31<Black_Prince>Jonny, it is possible if your ram is faulty :(
16:32<babilen>Ah, yeah, should be there. But the DIMMS might be broken
16:32<Jonny>is that the only way? :(
16:32<booom>Jonny, ever did a memtest86+ ?
16:32<Jonny>ok i have terminal... which command to run
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16:32<Black_Prince>judd versions memtest86++
16:32<judd>Sorry, no package named 'memtest86++' was found in i386.
16:32<Black_Prince>judd versions memtest86+
16:32<judd>Package memtest86+ on i386 -- lenny: 2.01-1.1; lenny-backports: 4.10-1.1~bpo50+1; squeeze: 4.10-1.1; sid: 4.20-1; wheezy: 4.20-1
16:32<booom>Jonny: do a apt-get/aptitude install memtest86+
16:32<Black_Prince>install that package, reboot and select memtest from grub
16:33<booom>Jonny, then reboot your system and, when in grub, boot into memtest and let it run over night
16:33-!-salman [~salman@] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
16:33<Black_Prince>booom, did you look at sns syndrome fact?
16:34<babilen>booom: As I've pointed out: That poll is absolutely unreliable. I would tear any publication that makes assumptions based on it into pieces. What is wrong with installing a minimal stable system and upgrading from there? But you *can* select the target distro in the expert mode. But I still recommend to install stable and take it from there.
16:34<booom>Black_Prince: what is sns?
16:34<dselect>Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>.
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16:34<booom>babilen: I guess that's what I will do
16:34<babilen>booom: Have you read the FAQ and my email?
16:35<booom>babilen: I have skimmed it
16:35<Jonny>apt-get/aptitude no such file or directory
16:35<babilen>alright, so make sure you have -listbugs and -listchanges installed, install stable and take it from there. Also note that the best channel for further questions is #d-next
16:35<booom>apt-get install memtest86+
16:36<Jonny>lol ok my bad sorry im retarded
16:36<Jonny>how can i add myself to root
16:36<babilen>Jonny: booom wanted to imply that you can also use "aptitude" in lieu of "apt-get" and therefore used "apt-get/aptitude"
16:36<Jonny>yeah i figured
16:36<Black_Prince>Jonny, if you choosed to enable root password on installation, type su and give root password
16:37<Black_Prince>Jonny, otherwise use sudo su and type user password
16:37-!-kayode [~kayode@] has joined #debian
16:37<booom>Jonny, don't give your normal user acc root rights. Log in as root or use the tool sudo
16:37<Jonny>its getting it
16:37<babilen>Jonny: You probably want to configure sudo. Install "sudo" as root and add your user to the "sudo" group by issuing "adduser FOO sudo" (substitute FOO with your username) -- logout and back in and you can use sudo
16:38<Jonny>i think su is fine with me
16:38<Jonny>and, its done
16:38<babilen>ok, great
16:38<Jonny>do which command to run?
16:38<booom>Jonny, also, if you avoid the command line, you can use tools like adept (KDE) or synaptics to manage software installations
16:39<Black_Prince>%gentoosmite MrFrood
16:39*dselect spends 5 days recompiling MrFrood, and when it's all done, MrFrood runs 0.1% faster than previously
16:39<booom>Jonny, to run what?
16:39<Jonny>well, why did i install memtest
16:39<Black_Prince>Jonny, to run memtest, you need to reboot your machine and select it from boot menu. I'd suggest you do that over night or when you are away from home since it will take long time
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16:39<booom>Jonny, Black_Prince and I told you that you got to reboot in order to run memtest. It is some kind of OS
16:40<booom>(or firmware)
16:40<Jonny>is it just a checker, or do i need to do that to enable the viewing of all of my ram
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16:41<Jonny>well great, "free" shows only 3.6... again
16:41<booom>Black_Prince, what did you mean with "sns" 10mins ago?
16:41<Black_Prince>booom /msg dselect sns
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16:41<Black_Prince>Jonny, cat /proc/meminfo
16:42<Black_Prince>And take a look at first lines
16:42<booom>Black_Prince: lol, but fuck, yeah, I am infected
16:42<Jonny>Memtotal from that command shows same
16:42<Black_Prince>Jonny, what does uname -r say?
16:44<Black_Prince>Jonny, also, what graphics card do you have?
16:45-!-s3a [] has joined #debian
16:45<gnufan>Grr CD writing woes. Did " genisoimage -o /home/srw/CDROM.iso -R -J -hfs CDROM/" the iso mounts via loopback as expected, written using the GNOME gui, the ISO read from /dev/sr0 with dd is identical ("cmp") to the original ISO, but when I insert the CD it simply spews a few errors to kern.log about (I/O Error on secter NNNNNN and Buffer I/O error with different sector number, then the disk is not mounted by GNOME. I can manually mount the CD fine. Have I hit my s
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16:46<Jonny>em... like.. i don't remember
16:46<booom>is there a difference between dselect and dpkg? (I mean the bots...)
16:46-!-zyga [] has joined #debian
16:46<Black_Prince>dselect is copy of dpkg, but with read-only database.
16:46<dselect>Black_Prince: KCI error, or a problem with the Keyboard-Chair Interface.
16:47<Jonny>its green
16:47<Black_Prince>Jonny, is it integrated or not?
16:47<Jonny>i have a seperate card
16:47<Black_Prince>ah, ok
16:47-!-Manni [~manuel@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:47<Jonny>thats it
16:47<dselect>The enter key is not a substitute for punctuation. Hitting enter unnecessarily makes it difficult to follow what you are saying. Consider using ',', '. ', ';', '...', '---', or ':' instead. If you hit enter too often, you will be autokicked by debhelper for flooding the channel.
16:48<syntaur>Jonny: Just curious, how much memory are you supposed to have? 4gb? Also, if you have an integrated card, have you checked the BIOS to make sure its disabled?
16:48<Jonny>what does my graphics card have to do with this?
16:49<gnufan>Oh found another error by "tail -f" anything likely in /var/log "illegal mode for this track"?!
16:49<Black_Prince>Jonny, because RAM shares memory with integrated graphics
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16:49<Jonny>I have 6 gigs, had 7 gigs but took out a gig cuz some people were saying its not a nice number, but still didn't fix anything
16:49<Black_Prince>Jonny, just for curiosity, how many dimms of memory are there?
16:50<syntaur>No, 7 is not a nice number at all :P
16:50-!-Volley [] has joined #debian
16:50<Black_Prince>Jonny, and there are 3x2GB ?
16:50-!-pedro [] has joined #debian
16:51<Black_Prince>Jonny, do you still have that 1GB dimm ?
16:51<Black_Prince>Jonny, try to put it in and then see if it will show all memory
16:51<Jonny>okay then...
16:52<Black_Prince>Jonny, also make sure others are connected properly to motherboard
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16:55<Jonny>its restarting
16:56<Jonny>alright so which command would be most likely to show 7 gigs?
16:57<anirban>Black_Prince, i lose the glitch less video after update lol
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16:57<Jonny>Black_Prince: sorry, message is above
16:58<nyov>what's wrong with 7gb ram?
16:58<Jonny>thats its not all showing
16:58<Black_Prince>Jonny, cat /proc/meminfo
16:58<anirban>32bit debian
16:58<Black_Prince>anirban, er?
16:58<anirban>Jonny, ?
16:58<MadGirl>Jonny, is, like, it integrated or not?
16:58<Black_Prince>MadGirl, we asked that question and it is not.
16:58<MadGirl>OK, Black_Prince
16:58<Jonny>Black_Prince: still shows 3.6
16:59-!-feuerrot [] has joined #debian
16:59<Jonny>anirban: i got amd64
16:59<Jonny>MadGirl: I don't know what you mean
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16:59<Jonny>do i need to disable my video card?
17:00<Black_Prince>Jonny, disable internal one if you use external one
17:00<Jonny>it should be already, iv been using vista 32-bit.. programs which use graphics card pretty intensly
17:00<anirban>Jonny, how much ram do you have?
17:00<Jonny>i have 7 gigs in the computer
17:00<Jonny>most commands show only 3.6 gigs
17:01<Jonny>most, because one time it did show 7 gigs
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17:01<anirban>Jonny, any possibilty that you a custom compiled kernel
17:01<Jonny>that i got one, or that i should get one?
17:01<nyov>maybe needs bigmem
17:02<Jonny>im up for anything seriously
17:02<Jonny>ok how do i get bigmen
17:02<booom>install it?
17:02<Jonny>so just "apt-get install bigmen"
17:02<anirban>Jonny, sudo apt-get install linux-image-'uname -r'-bigmem
17:02<booom> linux-image-686-bigmem or something
17:03<syntaur>That might not get you what you thin kit's getting you.
17:03<Black_Prince>nyov, he is using 64bit kernel
17:03<nyov>Black_Prince: that's strange then. sorry for the noise
17:04<Black_Prince>nyov, yes it is strange.
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17:04<Jonny>am i just cursed or something
17:04<Black_Prince>Jonny, you may have curse of the black perl or something :]
17:05<anirban>Jonny, if xchat can you type here /exec -o uname -a
17:05<Jonny>i don't have xchat
17:05<egwk>Jonny, you said on vista your hole ram got recognized?
17:05<anirban>then in terminal uname -a
17:06<Jonny>vista was 32 bit... so it showed 3.6 gigs still
17:06<Jonny>anirban: its like 2.6.32-5-amd64
17:07<Jonny>i mean before in System its showed "7 gigs" but in task manager - performance the RAM usage was always something out of 3.6 gigs
17:07<egwk>Jonny, I was just thinking your motherboard doesn't support them.(in a way e.g. max 4G)
17:07<Jonny>some people have suggested this, and it depresses me
17:08-!-fwaokda [] has joined #debian
17:08<Jonny>can u use 32 bit things and try to do some kind of tricks to "emulate" 64 bit and use all memory?
17:09<Jonny>or does that still require motherboard to support
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17:10<Black_Prince>Jonny, you can try 686 kernel with pae enabled if you want, but I doubt it will change anything
17:10<egwk>Jonny, I suppose if the motherboard doesn't support that many, its just impossible? (check the manufacturer's page of your motherboard model.)
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17:11<anirban>Jonny, please check in terminal > free -m|grep Mem|awk '{print $2}'
17:11<Jonny>you got it
17:12<anirban>nice :D
17:12<Jonny>thats bad right
17:12<cybersphinx>Jonny: Have you tried a 64 bit live-cd?
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17:13<Jonny>it seems i bought this RAM for nothing
17:14-!-linuxforever00 [~cvbcvb@] has joined #debian
17:14<Bushmills>that's a good price
17:14-!-b-os [~b-os@] has joined #debian
17:14<Jonny>hey if i want java, i can't find the package manager
17:14<Jonny>found it
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17:16<lindi->Jonny: java(tm) is not in debian but we have something which is close, openjdk-6-jre
17:16-!-venom00ut [] has joined #debian
17:17<Black_Prince>Java is in debian, but in non free repos
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17:17<meridionaljet>Hello, my /media directory has cdrom0 and a soft link "cdrom" that points to cdrom0. I thought I was supposed to have an actual cdrom entry there, not a link. Is it ok to delete this link and create a /media/cdrom directory? Will it mess up my cd playing?
17:17-!-sylar [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:17<lindi->Black_Prince: non-free is not part of debian :)
17:17<nyov>meridionaljet: why?
17:18-!-e1th0r [~hector@] has joined #debian
17:18<Black_Prince>lindi-, it isn't but it is available for users that want/need it
17:18<meridionaljet>nyov - Because a wine application claims the cd isn't inserted, and once upon a time I tricked it by mounting the ISO to /media/cdrom
17:18<meridionaljet>but here it is mounted on /media/cdrom1 because cdrom points to cdrom1
17:19-!-Neohasreturned [] has joined #debian
17:20<Neohasreturned>Hi all I have just installed debian and the software centre wouldn't download anything could someone tell me why?
17:20<nyov>meridionaljet: then mount it to /media/cdrom0 :P
17:20-!-Noz3001 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:20<Neohasreturned>ZykoticK9_, I have installed debian
17:20<meridionaljet>nyov - it is....but I need a /media/cdrom instead of a link to cdrom1, because I think wine defaults to /media/cdrom for the CD drive
17:20<meridionaljet>or rather, the windows .exe does
17:21<egwk>Jonny, give me dmidecode | grep Product
17:22-!-themill [] has joined #debian
17:22<Neohasreturned>Now I am trying to uninstall a program on software centre and it wont uninstall I am having a few problems?
17:22<nyov>meridionaljet: sure, do as you like, but you could also tell wine to look elsewhere for the cd drive
17:22<Jonny>"Product Name: RT641AA-ABA a1720n"
17:22<Jonny>"Product Name; LEONITE"
17:23<nyov>meridionaljet: actually my wine cd drive is set to /media/cdrom0
17:23<nyov>(well, the first one anyway)
17:23<meridionaljet>nyov - I tried that too and it still complained
17:23<meridionaljet>crossover also doesn't detect it properly
17:24<Neohasreturned>sney, Are you still here?
17:24-!-b-os [~b-os@] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
17:25<Neohasreturned>Is live dvd edition of debian stable?
17:25-!-f8l [] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5]
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17:26<Neohasreturned>Can anyone see my messages?
17:26-!-meridionaljet [~levi@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:27<egwk>Neohasreturned, yes
17:27-!-cjuner [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:27<Neohasreturned>egwk, Ok thanks could you tell me whether the live dvd of debian is stable or diff to the cd?
17:29-!-gnufan [~srw@] has left #debian []
17:29<egwk>Neohasreturned, well the dvd has more things inside.. squeeze is the current stable so that should be pretty solid.
17:29<Neohasreturned>egwk, I am having issues with software centre
17:30-!-e1th0r [~hector@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:30<egwk>Neohasreturned, are you opening it with root rights?
17:31<Neohasreturned>egwk, It asks for a password?
17:31-!-ring0 [] has left #debian [Leaving]
17:31<Black_Prince>Neohasreturned, welcome back and congratulations on successful installation of debian. Can you connect to internet on your debian machine? Does web page browsing work?
17:31<Neohasreturned>Black_Prince, Internet works fine just having issues installing and uninstalling via software centre?
17:31<egwk>Neohasreturned, yes naturally things that use su/sudo/sux to gain root ask for password.
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17:32<Black_Prince>Neohasreturned, I guess your software cache is outdated, update it with ' apt-get update ' via root or via synaptic -> reload packages
17:32<Neohasreturned>Black_Prince, Its working now sometimes it works and sometimes it don't?
17:32<Black_Prince>Neohasreturned, also from your terminal do ' gedit /etc/apt/sources.list ' and paste its contents to pastebin
17:32<egwk>Jonny, I suppose its a motherboard limit 4G but I can't really found many info about your motherboard.
17:33<Neohasreturned>Black_Prince, So such file after copying and pasting that command?
17:34<Black_Prince>Neohasreturned, I'm sorry?
17:34<Neohasreturned>Black_Prince, Its fine lol
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17:35<booom>I got a wheezy system and it constantly wants to upgrade dozens of packages to sid. Any idea why? Here are my preferences and sources.list:
17:35<Neohasreturned>Black_Prince, Why would the software centre stop working and start again?
17:35-!-themill [] has joined #debian
17:36<Black_Prince>Neohasreturned, because it isn't supposed to be used by debian, it is developed by canonical doh
17:36<egwk>booom, you got experimental and sid in your sources
17:36<Jonny>everyone, thanks for helping, I will deal with 4 gigs for now
17:36-!-Noz3001 [] has joined #debian
17:37<Neohasreturned>Black_Prince, Does that mean it will be on and off?
17:37<booom>egwk, but they should have low priorities
17:37<booom>egwk, I gave wheezy the highest priority
17:37<Neohasreturned>Black_Prince, Problem is I only know how to use software centre
17:38<Black_Prince>Neohasreturned, did you ran apt-get update ?
17:38<Neohasreturned>No didn't know the command?
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17:38<Black_Prince>I guess cache was outdated, update notifier should have updated cache
17:39<Neohasreturned>Black_Prince, Will update manager update it?
17:40<egwk>booom, not sure how priorities work(must read) but I suppose sid and experimental just have newer version packages. So it wants to update.
17:40<Neohasreturned>Black_Prince, I will update after I install what I need I cant remember what media codecs I need?
17:40<Black_Prince>Neohasreturned, I guess you need the codecs for media you can't play
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17:40<booom>egwk, so I wonder why apt-get/aptitude don't honor the /etc/apt/preferences file
17:40<Black_Prince>If any, that is
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17:41<Neohasreturned>Black_Prince, Ok cool Can I get flash and java?
17:41<Black_Prince>Neohasreturned, yes.
17:41-!-mOnDY [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
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17:42<Neohasreturned>Black_Prince, When I went onto speed it wouldn't show cos of flash
17:42-!-icke [] has joined #debian
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17:42<Black_Prince>Neohasreturned, open software sources and make sure contrib and non-free are checked on first page, then search synaptic for sun-java6-plugin and flashplugin-nonfree
17:42-!-streuner__ [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
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17:42<Black_Prince>Or via command line, apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree sun-java6-plugin (need to be root or use sudo)
17:43<egwk>booom, can't help you need to read a faq about them I just have to say that you can comment(#) the start of the line to ignore the line (e.g #deb ...)
17:43<Neohasreturned>Black_Prince, It wont let me check them?
17:43<icke>kann mir hier jemand auf deutsch helfen?
17:43<dselect>Deutschsprachige Hilfe bekommt ihr in (auf, oder - German speaking users please go to (on, or
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17:46<Neohasreturned>Black_Prince, What do I need to do?
17:46<fredden>am seeing an expired Release file on the NZ mirror for squeeze-updates: E: Release file expired, ignoring (invalid since 1h 23min 53s)
17:46-!-icke [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:46<Black_Prince>Neohasreturned, type gksu gedit /etc/apt/sources.list
17:46-!-ring0 [] has joined #debian
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17:47<Neohasreturned>deb squeeze contrib non-free main
17:47<Neohasreturned>deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 6.0.0 _Squeeze_ - Official Snapshot i386 LIVE/INSTALL Binary 20110324-09:22]/ squeeze main
17:48<Black_Prince>Neohasreturned, change ... to ... save and close
17:48<Neohasreturned>(gedit:4563): EggSMClient-WARNING **: Failed to connect to the session manager: None of the authentication protocols specified are supported
17:48<Black_Prince>reload cache via update manager
17:48<Black_Prince>or via command line, apt-get update
17:49<Neohasreturned>Black_Prince, I don't understand whats happening?
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17:49<Neohasreturned>permission denied am i root?
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17:50<Black_Prince>plz paste?
17:50<Black_Prince>use pastebin if more than 3 lines
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17:50<Neohasreturned>Black_Prince, Wheres pastebin?
17:50-!-eknahm [] has joined #debian
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17:50<Black_Prince>Neohasreturned, is software center or synaptic open?
17:51-!-mode/#debian [+l 495] by debhelper
17:51<Neohasreturned>software centre
17:51<Black_Prince>close it
17:51<Black_Prince>you can't use apt-get via terminal when software center is open
17:51<Neohasreturned>I have still bringing up same message
17:51<dselect>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: or for pics. Use for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <>, <wgetpaste>.
17:51<Black_Prince>paste error message
17:52<Neohasreturned>E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/apt/lists/lock - open (13: Permission denied)
17:52<Neohasreturned>E: Unable to lock directory /var/lib/apt/lists/
17:52<Neohasreturned>E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (13: Permission denied)
17:52<Neohasreturned>E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), are you root?
17:52-!-Neohasreturned was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use or /msg dpkg paste]
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17:53<dean>Black_Prince, I got kicked
17:53-!-booom [] has joined #debian
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17:53<Black_Prince>I told you to use pastebin if there are more than 3 lines
17:53-!-Edek [] has quit []
17:53<Black_Prince>Anyways, you weren't root
17:53<Black_Prince>type su and give your root password
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17:54<Black_Prince>dean, now run apt-get update
17:54<dean>Black_Prince, Its working now
17:55<dean>Black_Prince, How come I wasn't root?
17:55<Black_Prince>well you used normal terminal I guess
17:56<Black_Prince>normal terminal != root terminal
17:56<dean>Its asking for a cd?
17:56<Black_Prince>dean, do again gedit /etc/apt/sources.list
17:57-!-Noz3001 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:57<dean>Done it
17:57<Black_Prince>put a # at the beggining of deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 6.0.0 _Squeeze_ - Official Snapshot i386 LIVE/INSTALL Binary 20110324-09:22]/ squeeze main line
17:58<dean>Done it
17:58<Black_Prince>Save and close
17:58<dean>Saved it and closed
17:58<Black_Prince>apt-get update again
17:59<dean>Why have I had to do all this?
17:59-!-e-ndy [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
17:59<Black_Prince>you have to go to work to get your pay
17:59<dean>-E: Could not get lock /var/lib/apt/lists/lock - open (11: Resource temporarily unavailable)
17:59<dean>E: Unable to lock directory /var/lib/apt/lists/
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18:00<Black_Prince>Are you root?
18:00<Black_Prince>is software center, synaptic or something else open?
18:00<sney>hey dean. this name is better than the other one. you had to do this once because the installer couldn't find your network before. and you always have to be root when installing packages, or you can use sudo. and you can't run more than one package manager at the same time.
18:01<dean>sney, Hey
18:01<dean>Black_Prince, nothing is open
18:01<Black_Prince>another terminal maybe?
18:01<dean>I've tried root terminal and normal
18:01<Black_Prince>do you have another terminal open?
18:01<dean>No just one
18:02<Black_Prince>try it again
18:02<Black_Prince>maybe update-manager was doing it's work
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18:03<dean>Nope not working
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18:03<dean>could it be the live dvd?
18:03<Black_Prince>dean, paste output of ps -A, but do note use pastebin for that one :|
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18:03<raza>hello. i have a netbook with debian 6 install and only 8 MB free. I want to install VLC but it wants 100mb. Is there any way, to install vlc onto an external usb (no problem if i have to format it) ?
18:04-!-Planet8 [] has joined #debian
18:04<Planet8>I have a machine upgraded from lenny to squeeze, it's only located on my lan, so I don't update it that often, but this evening when I wanted to, I got this error: "Release file expired, ignoring (invalid since 20d 11h 48min 52s)"
18:04<lindi->raza: how much large SDD does it have currently?
18:05<lindi->raza: SSD
18:05<Planet8>How do I fix that?
18:05<sney>raza: that's a pretty small drive! er, you could move /usr onto the other volume, or /home, or whatever is taking up most of the space
18:05<Jonny>hey guys
18:05<Black_Prince>dean, ps -A
18:05<dean>sney, Can you tell me whats happening lol
18:05<dean>Yeah thats what I put in
18:05<Jonny>im trying to run minecraft on here, but its slow as friggen hell. I try java -Xms etc. but say ClassNotFoundException
18:06<Black_Prince>dean, reboot please and come back
18:06<Black_Prince>or just log out and log back in
18:06<raza>my SSD drive is 4GB. But i have only one / partition, not separate for /home etc.
18:06<dean>Black_Prince, I re did it loads game up
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18:07<Black_Prince>dean, are you sure you don't have another terminal open? The one that prompted you for cd rom?
18:07<dean>came up
18:07<Black_Prince>Because that's what I see in this output
18:07<raza>sney: I don't have any documents/videos/music, its full with the basics + emesene and some other programms
18:07<lindi->raza: ok. and easy solution might be to move /home to usb
18:07<dean>I don't remember seeing another terminal
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18:07<nyov>Planet8: aptitude update?
18:07-!-bighornram [~bighornra@] has joined #debian
18:07<dean>I think Debian maybe a bit too complex for me
18:07<Black_Prince>dean, kill -9 6548
18:07<Planet8>nyov, doesn't help
18:08<egwk>Planet8, you could probably get the packages in a usb but I don't know how much space vlc needs to install
18:08<Planet8>nyov, it's during the update I get the error
18:08<robinetd>Jonny: I think minecraft requires sun's jre.
18:08<Planet8>egwk, I'm not using vlc
18:08<raza>lindi-: how can i do that? format my usb to ext3 and then?
18:08<dean>typed it in
18:08<Black_Prince>now try apt-get update
18:08<lindi->raza: you could also use LVM which makes it easy to merge many block devices and then allocate it to as many different filesystems you want. no need to struggle with static partitioning
18:08<egwk>Planet8, my bad wrong name ^_^
18:08<Planet8>egwk, np :)
18:09<Black_Prince>dean, apt-get install sun-java6-plugin flashplugin-nonfree
18:09<raza>lindi-: help me a little bit :P
18:09-!-Planet8 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:09<lindi->raza: 1) create partition 2) create ext3 fs 3) mount it to /mnt 4) cp -ax /home/* /mnt 5) umount /mnt
18:10<dean>Black_Prince, Its doing it can you tell me what I just had to do then?
18:10<raza>lindi-: ok w8
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18:10<Black_Prince>dean, you are installing java and flash now :|
18:10<sney>dean: it'll all make much more sense if you read through this so you actually understand what's happening, instead of just pasting things from irc
18:10-!-luke [] has quit []
18:10<lindi->raza: 6) boot to single user mode 7) mv /home /home.original 8) add the new device to /etc/fstab 9) mount -a and verify that ls /home and /home.original both look sane
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18:11<dean>Black_Prince, I know but why did I have to do all that configuring never did that with other distros?
18:11<dean>Its froze on 22%
18:11<Black_Prince>dean, because it's debian?
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18:11<sney>it can be tough the first time around but it's not actually that complex, just read that thing I linked so you understand
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18:14<Jonny>hey u guys
18:14<lindi->raza: can't wait very long sorry :)
18:14<Jonny>how do i get my video drivers working?
18:14<raza>lindi-: ok np, i'll try it
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18:14<Black_Prince>Jonny, video card?
18:15-!-christian [] has quit []
18:16<Jonny>i have nvidia
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18:16<sney>%nvidia dkms howto
18:16<dselect>A manual for installing the proprietary <nvidia> drivers can be found at
18:17*egwk night people.
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18:27<Jonny>HEY you guys!!!!!!!
18:27<Jonny>if anyone remembers me trying to get my memory working
18:27<Black_Prince>Jonny, did you test it with memtest86+ ?
18:28<Jonny>launching minecraft i was able to do -Xms5000M and it worked, yet when i went to 10000M it says cannot reserve enough
18:28<Jonny>Black_Prince: no, but does this mean its able to reserve up to 6 gigs??
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18:30<Black_Prince>Jonny, er do you have swap?
18:31<Black_Prince>Jonny, cat /proc/swaps
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18:31<Jonny>it says size: 3666936
18:32<Black_Prince>3.4 gb of swap and 3.4 gb of ram give around 7 gb of memory ... (swap is acting as virtual memory)
18:33<sney>I thought jonny had an amd64 install though. he shouldn't be topped out at 3.4GB
18:33<Black_Prince>sney, weirdest thing I've ever seen
18:34<Black_Prince>but even with 64bit system, still showing 3.4GB of memory
18:34<Jonny>my MC server is running with "-Xmx6000M -Xms5000M"
18:35<Black_Prince>Jonny, did you see my post ?
18:35<Jonny>yeah sorry i was afk
18:35<Jonny>there is virtual memory going on?
18:35<Black_Prince>Jonny, yes.
18:35<Jonny>so i really am using 7 gigs
18:35<sney>hmm, does the sun jvm support 64 bit memory limits?
18:36<mjr>Black_Prince, sounds like you want to check your bios settings that have to do with memory holes and/or mapping
18:36<Black_Prince>mjr, not my problem but Jonny's
18:36<Jonny>yeah, iv checked bios and it sees all 7 gigs
18:36<Jonny>but some commands in debian show up to 3.6 gigs
18:36<mjr>Jonny, nevertheless. Check relevant settings.
18:36<Jonny>ok, what do i check?
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18:42<robinetd>Jonny: uname -a
18:43<Jonny>amd64 x86_64
18:44<mjr>I don't know what bios you have or indeed remember the exact settings offhand to any bios, that's why I gave a more general description
18:44<sney>what about free -om
18:45<robinetd>Jonny: Can you paste the output of "dpkg -l | grep linux-image" for me, please?
18:46<Jonny>sney: its Mem: (total) 3525
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18:50<robinetd>Jonny: The output of "free -m" might shed some light.
18:51<sney>he already did. 3525
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18:52<Nazcafan>I get a segfault everytime I try to run as root gnome-based apps from the gnome-terminal
18:52<Nazcafan>is that a normal behaviour?
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18:52<robinetd>Nazcafan: No, it isn't.
18:52<sney>Nazcafan: how are you running them as root? sudo/sux/gksu/other?
18:53<Nazcafan>on gnome-terminal
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18:53<Nazcafan>robinetd, sney
18:53<Nazcafan>actually it is not a segfault, just an abort
18:54<Black_Prince>X credentials not transfered to root, can't connect to dbus
18:54<sney>what if you explicitly declare DISPLAY?
18:54<robinetd>Nazcafan: Can you try gksu?
18:54<Black_Prince>gksu/gksudo should work
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18:55<Nazcafan>robinetd, gksu seems to work
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18:55<Nazcafan>robinetd, is it the recommended way, now?
18:55<robinetd>Nazcafan: Well, if it's the way that works, I'd recommend it. ;)
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18:57<Nazcafan>robinetd, so do I need to type gksu everytime I need to run vim, or is there a way to open a "session"?
18:57<robinetd>Nazcafan: Well, for gvim. You could always use an alias to make it easier to type.
18:57<Jonny>can i get terminal control remotely from windows, im travelling tomorrow
18:57<Jonny>and ftp, what programs do you guys suggest?
18:57<sney>Jonny: aren't you doing that already?
18:58<Jonny>no i have 2 comps right next to eachother
18:58<Black_Prince>Jonny, ftp is insecure, use sftp
18:58-!-nasuta-work [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:58<robinetd>If you're using windows, you can use cygwin or putty for ssh.
18:58<Jonny>oh, ok then
18:58<Black_Prince>Jonny, if you are going to use windows, use filezilla, it supports sftp
18:58<Jonny>alright, what do i run on the debian?
18:58<Jonny>..filezilla too?
18:58<sney>just install openssh-server
18:58<Jonny>oh, will that cover sftp too?
18:58<Nazcafan>all right
18:58<sney>yep, ssh and sftp are closely related
18:59<Jonny>k sweet,
18:59<Jonny>and sorry for the loads of questions, but how do i prevent debian from sleeping?
18:59-!-sbeck [] has joined #debian
18:59<Jonny>found it
19:00<Black_Prince>openssh = ssh+sftp
19:00-!-Rehnquist [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:00<Black_Prince>sftp= ftp over ssh
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19:08<Jonny>now that i have ssh and sftp (supposedly) i cannot find them in the applications drop down or other, do i just use them through command line?
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19:09<ring0>how do i enable syntax highlighting in vim by default? so that i don't have to do it manually each time i use vim.
19:10<robinetd>ring0: Put it in your ~/.vimrc
19:10<akerl>Black_Prince: To say that sftp is ftp over ssh is a gross over-generalization.
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19:11<ring0>robinetd, would editing /etc/vim/vimrc be correct too?
19:11<Black_Prince>well, I can say one or two dumb too :P
19:11<robinetd>ring0: I don't really know, I'm an emacs guy.
19:11<akerl>ring0: i'd bet that the one in etc would work, and would affect all users.
19:11-!-Nazcafan [] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
19:11<ring0>i'll just check it out :)
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19:13<sbeck>I need help with sound in KDE as it stops when two programs at the same time want to play sound. This also happens i.e. when Amarok plays music any messenger jingles that a contact has come or gone.
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19:14<sbeck>It happens with pulseaudio backends: vlc, gstreamer and xine
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19:15<Black_Prince>sbeck, you using pulseaudio?
19:15-!-jacobite [] has joined #debian
19:15<sbeck>When I uninstalled pulseadio I haven't had any sound.
19:15-!-ridius [~ridius@] has joined #debian
19:15<sbeck>So I reinstalled it.
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19:15<Black_Prince>sbeck, try adding this to your ~/.asounrc
19:15<Black_Prince>~/.asoundrc to be correct
19:16<sbeck>one moment, please. Let me try.
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19:16<cobra-the-joker>hey guys ... can i put unity on debian squeeze ?
19:17<Black_Prince>cobra-the-joker, short answer: no
19:17<jacobite>hello all
19:17<cobra-the-joker>so bad :(
19:17<sbeck>Black_Prince, I don't have that file there
19:17<cobra-the-joker>hello jacobite
19:17<Black_Prince>sbeck, create it and add those contents
19:17<jacobite>hi cobra hows u
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19:18<cobra-the-joker>jacobite: fine thanq , what about you
19:18<jacobite>yes great ty
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19:23<jacobite>was talking to andrennea earlier so if put in abuntu 11.4 first time user its nice
19:23<sney>%otherchannel jacobite #ubuntu
19:23<dselect>jacobite: The channel you are looking for is #ubuntu on Please do /server and then /join #ubuntu. If your client supports it, you can also right-click the following link and choose connect: irc://
19:23<sbeck>Black_Prince, okay. I'm one step ahead. Now the first program doesn't stop playing but no other program can give out sound. :-)
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19:24<Black_Prince>sbeck, log out and log back in (let it restart pulseaudio)
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19:24<sbeck>Black_Prince, I restarted it by killing it in the process list.
19:25<Black_Prince>sbeck, that's wrong way
19:25<Black_Prince>it has it's startpulseaudio-kde thing
19:25<Black_Prince>which is ran on login
19:25<sbeck>It came automatically back.
19:26<Black_Prince>just do as I said. Also make sure you have libasound2-plugins installed
19:26-!-adi [~adi@2001:470:b471:0:b1e8:f5fb:720b:483c] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:26<cobra-the-joker>is it possible to install a higher version of pidgin .... > 2.7.3 on squeeze ?
19:26<Black_Prince>judd versions pidgin
19:26<judd>Package pidgin on i386 -- lenny: 2.4.3-4lenny8; lenny-security: 2.4.3-4lenny8; lenny-backports: 2.7.3-1~bpo50+2; squeeze: 2.7.3-1+squeeze1; sid: 2.9.0-1; wheezy: 2.9.0-1
19:26<ring0>i'm looking for a debian live-cd for 32bit to put on a classic cd or dvd. which should i take from /cdimage/release/current-live/i386, bt-hdd, bt-hybrid, iso-hybrid or usb-hdd?
19:26<sbeck>And, correction: now the messenger-sound and Amarok work together. Vlc plays, too. But skype doesn't call.
19:26<dselect>First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add ONLY a <deb-src> line for sid to /etc/apt/sources.list 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
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19:26<cobra-the-joker>Black_Prince: the backports hve also 2.7.3
19:27<Black_Prince>sbeck, it will be good after relogin
19:27<sbeck>Okay, Iĺl try.
19:27<Black_Prince>cobra-the-joker, look after If unavailable:
19:27<sbeck>Thank you for your help.
19:27<Black_Prince>sbeck, also make sure you select pulseaudio in skype
19:27<sney>ring0: the ones with bt- are bittorrent, which I assume you understand. iso-hybrid images can be used on either an optical disc or a usb drive with no modification
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19:27<Black_Prince>in sound devices
19:27<sbeck>Black_Prince, it is as there is no other option.
19:27<Black_Prince>sbeck, just go ahead and try what I said
19:27<sney>ring0: also, note that some live images are too big for 700M cds
19:28<ring0>sney, thanks, i get it. wasn't sure about the hybrid
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19:29<ring0>sney, just for my curiosity what is usb-hdd for?
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19:29<sney>ring0: usb drive only.
19:29<ring0>sney, alright
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19:45<sbeck>Black_Prince ?
19:45<MadGirl>Black_Prince is, like, just curious why did people who wrote instructions on use sudo, doh
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19:46<sbeck>Weird behaviour: Now plasma-desktop crashs immediately after starting it. It doesn't matter if it's started at login or by hand.
19:46<php>ecTb Pycckue??
19:46<dselect>Russian speakers, please talk (Pogalujsta, zajdite na) (Pazhaluista, zahodite na) #debian-russian or use English here.
19:47<Black_Prince>sbeck, have you tried (re)moving .asoundrc ?
19:47<sbeck>I renamed the file "~/.asoundrc" to "~/defective_asoundrc" and rebooted the system.
19:48<sbeck>But it didn't help.
19:48<sbeck>Gnome starts, xfce, too.
19:48<Black_Prince>er, what?
19:48<sbeck>Only KDE has this problem now.
19:48<Black_Prince>You have 3DE's installed?
19:48<sbeck>Why not ?
19:49<sbeck>This worked for years without problems.
19:49<Black_Prince>Well, since it is not caused by pulseaudio I don't think I can elp you since I don't use kde, anyways, maybe some of your configuration is borked
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19:49<Black_Prince>user configuration, I mean (dotfiles and dotfolders)
19:49<Black_Prince>try running it via terminal and see if there are any hints
19:50<sbeck>But I don't know which one as I only changed .asoundrc
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19:50<sbeck>plasma-desktop(7553): Communication problem with "plasma-desktop" , it probably crashed.
19:50<sbeck>Error message was: "org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown" : " "The name org.kde.plasma-desktop was not provided by any .service files" "
19:51<sbeck>plasma-desktop can't communicate with itself ?
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19:51<Black_Prince>yeah could be
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19:52<Black_Prince>I told you I don't use kde ... So I can't help you there, sorry
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19:53<sbeck>Ah, I see. It seems to have a problem with loading files from my xp partition as that isn't mounted yet.
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19:55<sbeck>No, didn't help.
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19:55<sbeck>I'll try to solve it by myself.
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21:26<notr00t>hi there. i'm looking for some help setting up dmsetup loop devices during boot. if i have two files on a hard drive which i want to concatenate together using dmsetup so that they show up as a single loop device (i.e. appear to the OS as a block device), how can i do that during boot? i'm sure it has to go in the initrd but i don't know how to do it
21:27<notr00t>i've googled for a couple days and haven't had any success
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21:27<notr00t>it seems there's very little info out there on using dmsetup loop devices in an initrd
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21:37<jasonsmr>hello channel
21:38<jasonsmr>I have a question , how do I use xen. I followed the walkthrough instructions in the debian wiki to the letter
21:38<jasonsmr>I did all but crreate a domU
21:38<jasonsmr>the system starts but with no video? do those instructions assume that im not in need of a screen for dom0?
21:39<jasonsmr>followed instructions at >>
21:40<notr00t>sadly, i don't know anything about xen. sorry :(
21:42<jasonsmr>hop to xen
21:42<jasonsmr>thanks anyhow
21:43<jasonsmr>well okey one more query
21:43<jasonsmr>Im thinking about replacing the current system in my router (mpis)
21:44<jasonsmr>its openwrt now, and I see that debian has a nice enough mpis installation, anyone know about the possability of using debian in this type of senerio
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21:45<notr00t>of course you must ask questions that i don't know anything about
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22:05<notr00t>jasonsmr, how much do you know about initrd's?
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22:16<hatetheplayer>hi- when i type #iwconfig wlan0 up,
22:17<hatetheplayer>i get: SIOCSIFFLAGS:No such file or directory
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22:19<jasonsmr>notr00t, I know how to take one apart, and to modify some files and recompress it
22:19<jasonsmr>thand how to build one automaticaly with mkinitramfs
22:20-!-jillsmitt [~arinov@] has joined #debian
22:20<jasonsmr>or mkinitrd
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22:21<jasonsmr>notr00t aside from that not a whole lot... I hear that it carrys the /proc filesystem in it,
22:21<notr00t>well i have a setup where i need to run dmsetup before cryptsetup runs to open an encrytped hard drive
22:21<notr00t>i don't know where in the initrd process cryptsetup runs
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22:22<jasonsmr>I dont know it, Im superiorly new to debian
22:22<jasonsmr>im a SUse guy usualy
22:22<jasonsmr>Im using debian latly though
22:23<syntaur>SuSE? I had to use that for my classes. I hated it :p
22:23<jasonsmr>there should* be some type of initramfs configure file for the system
22:23<jasonsmr>maybe in /etc/sysconfig?
22:23<notr00t>i'm not sure
22:24<notr00t>basically what i did was separate the partition tables and encrypted partition headers from a hard drive (copied them into a file) and overwrote them with random data. i can use dmsetup to combine the file and the disk into a single loop device that acts just like the hard drive originally did, but while leaving no evidence on the hard drive that it's been used
22:25<ibrahim>i i have a graphics card which is Mobility Radeon HD 5000 Series directX11 it supports microsoft can we find smth makes it work on ubuntu 11.04
22:25<notr00t>but if i want to boot to that hard drive, i have to run my dmsetup command before cryptsetup/lvm run in the initrd's init scripts
22:25<notr00t>and i don't know where that is
22:27<jasonsmr>whats in the directory /etc/modprobe.d
22:27<jasonsmr>there are some start up files in there
22:28<notr00t>i figured out how to ensure the dm module is loaded
22:28<notr00t>that's already done
22:28<jasonsmr>how did you do it?
22:29<notr00t>easy to use initramfs-tools--just add dm-crypt to the modules list
22:29<jasonsmr>whell try to add your crypt module if its a module before that
22:29<jasonsmr>oops after
22:30<notr00t>i'm not using a separate module
22:30<notr00t>the goal is to use only standard linux modules
22:30<notr00t>because a custom module would reveal the existence of the system
22:30<notr00t>by using nothing but standard modules you can have plausible deniability
22:31<notr00t>cryptsetup is standard in a lot of linux distros
22:31<notr00t>hashalot and lvm2 aren't revealing
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22:31<jasonsmr>your going to have to inject a call or open a wait and then inject some code before* that cryptsetup/lvm
22:31<tatan>alguien que hable español?
22:31<notr00t>hell, if i even knew how to use dmsetup in an initrd i'd be better off. there's like nothing on google
22:31<jasonsmr>I dont know about that module I have never needed to use the encrypted lvm Im on lvm of course notn encrypt
22:32<notr00t>well cryptsetup/lvm2 aren't revealing
22:32<notr00t>in themselves
22:32<notr00t>and they can be adequately explained
22:32<notr00t>by creating dummy systems
22:32<notr00t>but a secret-disk-encryption-that-evil-authorities-cant-find module would be a bit revealing
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22:36<tatan>debian install from a disk net in the start menu start the first option and the screen starts shaking and nothing happens
22:37<notr00t>the screen starts shaking?
22:38<nyov>screen is disagreeing
22:39<nyov>notr00t: it's probably running in scripts/local-top/cryptroot
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22:39<nyov>you might want search for initramfs instead of initrd
22:39<notr00t>yeah i found the luksOpen in cryptroot
22:40<notr00t>i just don't know the order that the scripts load in
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22:40<notr00t>in other words, i need to ensure that the dm module is loaded before using it
22:41<notr00t>ok, now obviously something else reads order, then calls the scripts
22:41<notr00t>(theoretically in that order)
22:41<notr00t>is there an OVERALL order somewhere?
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22:43<nyov>notr00t: /init-top, /init-premount, /init-bottom, /local-top, /local-premount, /local-bottom
22:43<nyov>in that order
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22:45<jasonsmr>notr00t, okey try to have a look at your own initrd allrighty?
22:45<notr00t>yep that's what i'm doing
22:45<notr00t>i have it all pulled apart
22:45<notr00t>trying to figure out where to add this one additional line to make the whole idea work
22:46<notr00t>the hardest part was figuring out how to separate partition tables from a hard drive and still have the system recognize it
22:46<notr00t>THEN separate the encrypted partition headers and make LUKS still work
22:46<jasonsmr>yes that arts done
22:46<jasonsmr>ha, sounds cool man
22:46<notr00t>it is
22:46<nyov>notr00t: did that some years ago, running my custom decrypt ;)
22:46<notr00t>thanks for ruining my sense of discovery
22:46<jasonsmr>hey Im just curious too!
22:46<nyov>so my key only get's loaded when a special usb stick is in the box
22:47<jasonsmr>I would love to have you explain it to me
22:47<notr00t>nyov, end result of mine is a hard drive that appears from end to end to have been wiped
22:47<notr00t>no boot sector, no partition tables, nothing
22:47<notr00t>indistinguishable from a secure-wiped drive
22:47<jasonsmr>sounds like a coustom persistance with no read
22:47<nyov>notr00t: just encrypt the disk, not the partitions
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22:49<notr00t>yea but you can't use LUKS that way
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22:49<notr00t>and LUKS is much better than dmcrypt
22:49<jasonsmr>notr00t, I think I have had a simmulare thing I did with a non MSDOS partion table
22:49<notr00t>it has the AFIS, multiple keyslots, etc
22:50-!-s3a [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:50<jasonsmr>what partion table none?
22:50<notr00t>yeah actually it turned out you really don't even need a partition table
22:50<notr00t>at all
22:50<jasonsmr>I had to place everything by hand,at particular spots
22:50<notr00t>i can just use dmsetup
22:50<jasonsmr>like old msdos ;P
22:50<nyov>notr00t: ok maybe write that stuff up somewhere :)
22:51<notr00t>heh nyov i am
22:51<notr00t>once i figure it out
22:52<jasonsmr>thats prety cool beans
22:52<notr00t>the goal of course, is to enable the use of strong encryption but without the risk of authorities compelling the production of the key with legal process by preventing proof of the use of encryption
22:52<notr00t>if i have a disk that's filled end to end with random data, i can lie and say it's been securely wiped
22:52<jasonsmr>wow, thats a whole lot to prove maybe
22:52<nyov>let's shorten that to plausible deniability ;)
22:52<notr00t>and there's nothing anyone can do to disprove it
22:52<notr00t>heh nyov exactly
22:53<notr00t>heh ultimately i have some improvements in mind
22:53<jasonsmr>or rather to make certian you dont need that deniabaility factor after the fact
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22:53<notr00t>i need to do some more research first, but i want to figure out how to make the hard drive (external, for best system) appear as a formatted but empty drive
22:54<notr00t>the hard drive in the laptop has a standard windows install
22:54<notr00t>one usb key is the encrypted drive (but set up so that it APPEARS to be a blank, formatted drive)
22:55-!-dvs [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:55<notr00t>and the second key is a standard live linux distro with truecrypt on it and a tc container with personal info in it and, undetectable, a hidden volume that contains the stuff necessary to turn that "empty" first drive into a real linux OS
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22:55<notr00t>walk right through customs without any problems :)
22:56<notr00t>can't prove anything
22:56<notr00t>cuz truecrypt hidden containers are already undetectable
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22:57<notr00t>nyov, i also have nfs-top and panic in my /boot/scripts/ directory
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22:58<notr00t>where does that fall in the order? and also, how do you determine that the scripts run in the order you told me they do?
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23:03<nyov>notr00t: it's all in the main init script
23:04<jasonsmr>what script?
23:04<jasonsmr>functions ?
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23:04<nyov>the init script in the initramfs
23:04<nyov>then the scripts/local script
23:05<jasonsmr>im looking at mine too. because of my interest in initd with the openwrt, it has no initrd* just all these scripts
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23:05<notr00t>let me be clear--when we talk about initramfs and initrd are we talking the same thing or no?
23:05<jasonsmr>i see two local scripts
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23:05<notr00t>this is a new area for me
23:06<jasonsmr>they are simmulre, I am not quite sure what the diffrences are
23:06<jasonsmr>I know that realtime linux dosent need but the initramfs, I think that the initrd is more robust in scripts
23:06<nyov>it's probably not an initrd, if you are running a current kernel or debian distro
23:07<jasonsmr>then its a initramfs?
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23:07<jasonsmr>mine had no extention but it was cpio and gz compressed
23:08<notr00t>i have an initrd.img
23:08<notr00t>the whole startup process is new for me, i've been learning over the past few weeks
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23:09<notr00t>now that i think about it, basically what i'm doing is implementing a linux version of TrueCrypt's hidden-OS thing
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23:10<notr00t>(which is not available for linux, btw)
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23:11<notr00t>a big benefit though is that this will make evil maid attacks impossible :)
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23:17<notr00t>hmm, according to wikipedia, it's an initramfs where the kernel executes /init first, not an initrd
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23:18<notr00t>which raises questions of why the hell does the initramfs-tools script make an initrd.img
23:18<notr00t>i have an idea
23:19<notr00t>when the kernel boots, are all the modules loaded with it?
23:20<jasonsmr>thats an ineteresting read there tha nyov,nks
23:20<notr00t>because i'm thinking maybe i could just rename /init to /init2 or something and make a new /init that does everything i need
23:20<notr00t>then runs init2
23:21-!-mode/#debian [+l 462] by debhelper
23:21<jasonsmr>I see that it says that the initrd is basicaly a new rootfs with module enhancments for the kernel right and it is mounted and then a pivot_root is done?
23:21<jasonsmr>thats all there is to the inird?
23:22<jasonsmr>I think the kernel loads what it has compiled into it
23:22<jasonsmr>then the initrd loads more into the kernel >> while its still hot and gooy? IDK
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23:22<nyov>no, you can have custom modules included in there, they'll get loaded eventually
23:22<jasonsmr>BTW its is still possable to load using modprobe into the kernel
23:23<notr00t>i'm just wondering at what point i could run dmsetup without crashing everything
23:23<jasonsmr>well, I wanted to replace my current system with a debian kernel
23:23<notr00t>what i'm thinking is basically stick "dmsetup STUFF I NEED TO DO" somewhere in init
23:24<jasonsmr>I know for a fact Ithat I can not just load a debian kernel package into the ipkg it says invalid arc eventhough its a mpis
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23:25<notr00t>in theory, if i set up my drive ahead of time, cryptsetup/lvm wouldn't know any better
23:25<notr00t>the crypttab, cryptroot, etc. would get configured like normal
23:25<notr00t>i could just use the standard install
23:25<jasonsmr>right then it would just encrypt it normal
23:26<notr00t>but without the dmsetup to make the disk and separate header into a loop device, it'd be looking for something that's not there during boot
23:26<notr00t>so i'd have to edit init to run dmsetup before cryptsetup and everything else runs
23:27<Rainbowtron>Anyone know why youtube hasn't worked in iceweasel since the last update? I tried reinstalling flash and it works in opera.
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23:27<notr00t>doesn't iceweasel have a scriptblocker installed with it?
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23:28<jasonsmr>what about the ORDER?
23:29<notr00t>well, in theory init looks at the ORDER files at some point
23:29<jasonsmr>isnet this where information about the order of your scripts is kept?
23:29<notr00t>i'm not sure
23:29<notr00t>i'm basically reverse-engineering init here
23:29<jasonsmr>but , what controls the order?
23:30<jasonsmr>or to be clear , what controls the information kept in the ORDER file
23:30<notr00t>i'm also not familiar too much with /bin/sh scripting syntax, it's a bit different than bash
23:30<Rainbowtron>notr00t: You have to willfully turn it on by unchecking the boxes for enable that content. They are still checked.
23:30<jasonsmr>im still using ash
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23:30<notr00t>jasonsmr, i'm assuming that the order files are created by initramfs-tools or initramfs-update when the system is installed
23:30<notr00t>i'm not sure though
23:31<jasonsmr>there has got to be a better way to do that..
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23:31<jasonsmr>maybe a script to co-inside with the creation of your diappearing drive? to also re-create if you will the next! needed loadedr* files
23:31<jasonsmr>so to speak
23:32<jasonsmr>add nausium!
23:32<notr00t>you know how truecrypt hidden volumes work?
23:32<jasonsmr>I mean if you piut this on a system that needed updating often
23:32<jasonsmr>no clue
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23:32<Rainbowtron>wait, is this whole discussion about encrypting your linux system with truecrypt?
23:32<notr00t>basically, this kernel and initrd are going to be hidden inside an undetectable encrypted volume
23:32<notr00t>a standard live OS will boot that has truecrypt installed
23:33<notr00t>then (if you choose and you know the passphrase), you can decrypt the hidden volume, which has the other kernel and initrd to work with the hidden disk, then use kexec to switch over to that kernel and initrd
23:33<jasonsmr>im thinking about installing debin in a enbeded machine .. lol thats me
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23:34<notr00t>Rainbowtron, no, I'm making a true full disk encryption system for linux that allows for true plausible deniability
23:35<notr00t>in a nutshell, i'm aiming for a system where you can't tell an encrypted hard drive is actually an encrypted hard drive cuz it appears to be a wiped hard drive
23:35<jasonsmr>I was thinking about loading some scripts to the bas flash, then doing a pivot_root to another type of mediunm like a hard drive, thats personaly why for me that Im particularly listening or interested
23:35<Rainbowtron>notr00t: I've been kicking around ideas for that for a long time.
23:35<notr00t>well maybe you can help :)
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23:37<notr00t>i've figured out how to separate encrypted partition headers from a drive and leave random data in their place (so that the drive appears to have been wiped from end to end), then later use dmsetup to combine the header file and the part of the drive after where the headers used to be into a single loop (appears-to-be-block) device that cryptsetup/luks can work with
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23:38<notr00t>what i'm trying to do now is get that dmsetup command into init
23:38<notr00t>so that the hard drive in the system has nothing on it but if you have the right USB key it's a usable system
23:40<Rainbowtron>ok, so what you've got so far I hope is a truecrypt encrypted partition containing "/" and a usb disk containing "/boot"
23:41<notr00t>truecrypt hasn't come into play yet
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23:42<notr00t>here's a LUKS encrypted hard drive --> [ENCRYPTIONHEADERS][DATA DATA DATA DATA DATA]
23:42<Rainbowtron>let me make a VM so I can try to play along.
23:42<Rainbowtron>I need 2 physical disks, right?
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23:43<notr00t>what i've done is this: file -->[[ENCRYPTIONHEADERS]] HDD--> [[RANDOM DATA][DATA DATA DATA DATA DATA]]
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23:43<Rainbowtron>you're starting with a LUKS partition?
23:43<notr00t>because LUKS has some features that other methods don't have
23:43<notr00t>anti-forensic stuff
23:43<notr00t>multiple keyslots
23:44<Rainbowtron>I think you might be making this harder than it needs to be, unless I'm missing something.
23:44<notr00t>the goal is to make the use of encryption undetectable
23:45<Rainbowtron>truecrypt-encrypted devices just look like scrambled data.
23:45<notr00t>but you need truecrypt's bootloader to decrypt them
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23:45<Rainbowtron>That's where you're wrong.
23:46<notr00t>unless you have a separate system with truecrypt
23:46<notr00t>e.g. a live stick
23:46<notr00t>and then you can decrypt it
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23:46<Rainbowtron>you only need truecrypt-cli and its dependencies in an initrd
23:47<Rainbowtron>make it load truecrypt from the initrd before mounting root.
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23:48<notr00t>well i still have the same problem then, the only difference is i'm using truecrypt instead of dmsetup
23:48<notr00t>either way, i have to figure out where to run that command in init
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23:48<Rainbowtron>ok, I'll see if I can help you sort that out.
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23:49<notr00t>i suppose in theory this could be applied to any cryptosystem, the basic concept is keeping the header files and data area separate
23:49<notr00t>*header area
23:49<Rainbowtron>or otherwise making the header files undectable
23:49<notr00t>LUKS has some features that make it better than truecrypt in my opinion
23:50<Rainbowtron>like what?
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23:50<notr00t>well one is that it's been thoroughly publicly tested, where tc hasn't had nearly as much
23:50<notr00t>LUKS also has multiple keyslots
23:51<notr00t>so you can have multiple passphrases to open the same volume. i don't believe you can do that with tc
23:51<Rainbowtron>ok, so if you use LUKS, how will you ensure that nobody supects that there is a partition containing data there?
23:51<notr00t>i don't care if they suspect it, i care if they can present a reasonable suspicion to a court
23:52<notr00t>if the drive is indistinguishable from random data, they can't do that
23:52<Rainbowtron>You probably shouldn't tell me much more.
23:52<notr00t>well it's legal to discuss how EU laws violate human rights
23:53<notr00t>sole goal is real privacy
23:53<Rainbowtron>Oh. You're in europe. they can't get to me and hold me for questionioning from there, so I'm not really concerned about them.
23:54<notr00t>in some EU countries, it's a crime to not give up a key if they can prove (or have evidence) that you're using encryption
23:54<Rainbowtron>ok, then don't use LUKS.
23:55<notr00t>and in many countries, they can confiscate your sh*t at the border if you don't give them the key and let them go through it
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23:56<notr00t>either way, truecrypt or LUKS, you still have to figure out where in the init script to decrypt the device
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23:57<Rainbowtron>The only problem you're going to encounter with any encryption is that you're going to need a separate disk to boot, which will have an encryption program on it.
23:57<notr00t>that's the other reason i'm using LUKS -- it's a standard part of many linux distro's
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23:57<notr00t>so it doesn't arouse suspicion to have it in a live stick
23:58<Rainbowtron>yes, but LUKS partitions are detectable.
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23:58<notr00t>not if the headers are separated from them :)
23:58<Rainbowtron>They're still partitions.
23:59<Rainbowtron>*raises an eyebrow*
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23:59<notr00t>no partition tables on disk, nothing
23:59<notr00t>can truecrypt do that?
23:59<notr00t>or does it require a partitioned disk?
---Logclosed Mon Jul 04 00:00:14 2011