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#debian IRC Logs for 2011-07-12

---Logopened Tue Jul 12 00:00:58 2011
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00:14<ricardocopano>boa noite
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00:15<ricardocopano>i need help
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00:16<ricardocopano>alguem ae
00:17<Bushmills>medical emergency? legal advice?
00:17<Bushmills>or just an economic squeeze?
00:18<ricardocopano>i´m try change the 40.custom for boot menu GRUB ...
00:18<Bushmills>try #firstaid, #lawyers, or #howtogetrichquickly
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00:19<ricardocopano>can help?
00:19<Bushmills>ah., there are interactive grub configuration utilities, called "editors", which you'd use for such a change.
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00:20<ricardocopano>i used simple command : vi
00:20<ricardocopano>i saved normaly using a command :w
00:21<ricardocopano>but nothing change in menu
00:21<th>run update-grub
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00:22<ricardocopano>i going check this, wait a min
00:24<ricardocopano>thanks my friend
00:24<ricardocopano>you are the best
00:25<ricardocopano>thank you verymatch!!
00:27<ricardocopano>i try a solution for 3 hours!
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00:33<ricardocopano>my friends
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00:34<ricardocopano>how configure the graphic system X ??
00:35<ricardocopano>when run X... a black screen only...
00:35<ricardocopano>i´m using debian 6
00:35<th>no X pointer visible?
00:36<ricardocopano>no, nothing
00:38<th>can you paste the content of /var/log/Xorg.0.log to pastebin?
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00:40<ricardocopano>is in another machine, but i try... wait a min ...
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00:44<Some_Person>Can anyone help me figure out why my system crashed?
00:45-!-jm_ [] has joined #debian
00:46<streuner_>not unless you tell us more details
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00:46<dselect>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
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00:50<Bushmills>Some_Person: my guess is, there was an error of some kind
00:50<Some_Person>That isn't very helpful
00:50<Some_Person>I don't know what caused it, but I got a black screen with a mouse cursor and an underscore in the corner
00:51<Some_Person>Ctrl-Alt-F1 didn't work, so I power cycled and rebooted
00:52<matsp888>judging by an earlier answer to a similar problem of mine, it might be a kernel panic
00:52<matsp888>that's probably not much more helpful
00:53<Some_Person>If it was a kernel panic, is there a log that might tell me what caused it?
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00:54<matsp888>some clues could probably be found in /var/log/syslog
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00:54<Some_Person>I already looked in there -- nothing
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00:55<matsp888>i'll leave it to the experts
00:55<Some_Person>what the...
00:55<Some_Person>my system is acting weird
00:55<Some_Person>bash: /bin/ls: No such file or directory
00:55<Some_Person>And Chrome just brought up a page that said "He's dead Jim" and quit
00:56<rjsalts>Some_Person: it does sound ominous
00:56<Some_Person>and my desktop has a plain blue background and the icons are gone
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00:56<Some_Person>what the hell is going on??
00:57<ricardocopano>th are you there?
00:57<rjsalts>Some_Person: it sounds like you might have problems with your root filesystem
00:57<rjsalts>Some_Person: is there anything in dmesg?
00:57<Some_Person>command not found
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00:58<rjsalts>Some_Person: can you read /var/log/kern.log?
00:58<Some_Person>With what?
00:58<Some_Person>I can still cd to things, but nano won't load
00:59<Some_Person>This happened when I tried to play a song on grooveshark
00:59<rjsalts>Some_Person: cat?
00:59<Some_Person>command not found
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00:59<th>ricardocopano, yes, have you pasted the log?
01:00<Some_Person>Are there any built-in bash commands to read files? echo still works
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01:00<th>/bin/cat doesn't work too?
01:01<ricardocopano>th, w copy the file in a pendrive?
01:01<Some_Person>How is xchat still working anyway?
01:01<Some_Person>No such file or directory
01:01<sinoth>having an issue with grub on a wheezy install. i have "hardware" (motherboard) raid0 device as /dev/md1 but for some reason grub doesn't want to install there via the graphical installer. also can't run 'grub' from the installer shell so not sure where to go from here
01:01<rjsalts>Some_Person: read
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01:01<rjsalts>I think
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01:03<Some_Person>read does run, but doesn't seem to do anything
01:03<streuner_>dselect, tell Some_Person about mulitiple ask
01:03<th>ricardocopano, yes, that would be helpful
01:03<ricardocopano>i need copy the log file in a pendrive
01:03<streuner_>dselect, tell Some_Person about multiple ask
01:04<ricardocopano>i need a mount a pendrive, how?
01:04<th>read abc < somefile; echo abc
01:04<Some_Person>When I type sudo, it says "Bus error"
01:04<ricardocopano>when connected a pendrive, the system say : sdb
01:04<th>ricardocopano, mkdir /media/sdb; mount /dev/sdb /media/sdb
01:05<ricardocopano>ok, wait a min...
01:07<rjsalts>Some_Person: I'd just reboot with a live cd in the drive
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01:08<rjsalts>Some_Person: you probably won't lose much evidence of what went wrong
01:08<Some_Person>I don't *have* a live cd
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01:09<rjsalts>Some_Person: can you switch to vt1? there might be output there of whatever is going on
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01:11<streuner_>rjsalts: /msg dselect multiple ask
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01:11<ricardocopano>need specify the system file when using the command mount
01:11<streuner_>rjsalts: he already has another solution, he tries to burn a LIVE-CD in order to get more answers...
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01:12<ricardocopano>i m try, but not success
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01:14<ricardocopano>how use a mount command ? i have a pendrive in a sdb...
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01:16<th>mount -t auto /dev/sdb /media/sdb
01:16<th>perhaps it's sdb1
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01:47<ricardocopano>thanks th
01:47<ricardocopano>i try startx
01:48<ricardocopano>and the graphic mode started
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01:48<ricardocopano>how i can configure the IP, Gateway and DNS ??
01:48<ricardocopano>in text mode
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02:04<th>ricardocopano, edit /etc/network/interfaces
02:04<chealer>is there any Apache httpd front-end packaged?
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02:07*nevyn is confused
02:07<nevyn>apache is a frontend in his world.
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02:09<chealer>I want an Apache "control panel", a configuration tool
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02:09<th>like webmin?
02:10<chealer>th: yes
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02:22<jm_>%free whcp
02:22<dselect>FOSS Web Hosting Control Panels include: <DTC>, <GNUPanel>, <ISPConfig>, <ispCP> Omega and <RavenCore>. Don't use <Webmin>.
02:23<jm_>like that?
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02:26<dattebayo>heyg guys do u know what is linux mint debian?
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02:28<devil>dattebayo: sure
02:29<dattebayo>is it a debian? becuz debian is so awesome but mint kinda sux
02:29<th>so it's awesuck
02:29<devil>its based on debian testing
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02:30<dattebayo>@th lol
02:30<devil>using @ to adress someone also kinda sucks.
02:30<dattebayo>then how should i addres? like this /msg name?
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02:31<devil>dattebayo: your client has nick completion. just write 2 or 3 characters and hit TAB. that will highlightr the user
02:31<chealer>jm_: so the only one in Debian is DTC, which is for commercial hosting?
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02:32<dattebayo>plus i was installing debian on my friends HP Probook and at setuping grub its gives error that grub-pc cannot be installed in /target/ what should i have done?
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02:34<th>is it amd64?
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02:35<dattebayo>yea with
02:35<dattebayo>ati radeon that cannot be config
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02:40<dattebayo>and when gnome 3 will be on Debian?
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02:40<dattebayo>in some thread it says Somewhere around 2014 would be my guess....I doubt it would make it into Wheezy when Wheezy goes stable around 2012.
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02:41<jm_>chealer: apparently yes
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03:15<opalepatrick>Still not getting sound on debian 6 after installing wine a few days ago. I have tried all sorts of suggestions & checklists and no errors are showing AFAIK. How can I solve this? It worked fine previously
03:16<opalepatrick>no response at all at alss irc channel btw
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03:25<SorryGuest>what ports does apt-get use?
03:26<diceroll>man apt
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03:27<bones_was_here>depends if you have http or ftp urls in your sources.list
03:27<diceroll>oups sorry wrong window
03:28<bones_was_here>(and if theres a custom port in the url, by default its just port 80 http)
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03:29<bones_was_here>bus catching tiem bai
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03:36<Doranwen>I need to restrict access to my debian server at home (which handles our Internet) because someone's trying some sort of dictionary attack every night to get in, but even after reading this page I still don't quite understand what I need to type in the file in the right format to set it up properly:
03:39<Doranwen>I figure once I get the hang of an entry or two there I can set up hosts.deny similarly
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03:40<JuanDosSantos1991>Hello, How I can change the device name from hdb to sda? I have attached a secondary harddisk and it apears as hdb, but I need sda
03:41<th>JuanDosSantos1991, you can create a symlink
03:41<Torsten_W>and then?
03:41<JuanDosSantos1991>ln -s /dev/hdb /dev/sda ?
03:41<Torsten_W>since udev handles devices, after reboot it would gone
03:42<rjsalts>Doranwen: There is an example at the top sendmal: all
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03:42<Torsten_W>and it must be an very old debian
03:42<JuanDosSantos1991>I need sda, because I am using sbd stonith with iscsi disk
03:43<grummund>Doranwen: "man hosts.allow" and "man hosts.deny" contain examples
03:43<grummund>Doranwen: however i would start by moving ssh to a high port, and restrict ssh login to certain users
03:43<JuanDosSantos1991>Torsten_W: I am using the new stable release if debian, squeeze
03:44<Torsten_W>squeeze should andle pata discs like sata discs, there should not be any /dev/hdX
03:45<th>JuanDosSantos1991, may be able to help you writing a udev rule
03:46<Doranwen>it might help to show what sort of trouble I'm getting (this from the auth.log):
03:46<Torsten_W>and btw, device names are not of interest if you would use uuid
03:46<Doranwen>(I replaced my hostname with asterisks)
03:46<JuanDosSantos1991>Torsten_W: I know, but I ned the device name for sbd stonith
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03:46<Doranwen>they've been trying a million high-numbered ports with varying names and running me up 5 gigs of bandwidth or so every night
03:47<grummund>Doranwen: that's usual. move ssh to a high port and the instances will reduce
03:47<th>Doranwen, denyhosts package may be useful in this case
03:47<grummund>Doranwen: then look at iptables
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03:49<Doranwen>well, it sounds like if I try changing the port then I need to work with the firewall and I have absolutely no idea how to do that
03:49<lindi->JuanDosSantos1991: why do you need sda?
03:49<grummund>Doranwen: do you even have a firewall?
03:49<Doranwen>oh yes
03:50<Doranwen>I didn't set this up myself
03:50<JuanDosSantos1991>Because If I mount the iscsi disk on a node, the disk apears as sda
03:50<Doranwen>he set up all kinds of stuff
03:50<Doranwen>and it's just run beautifully--except for this attack
03:50<grummund>is it all from one IP ?
03:51<Doranwen>unfortunately although command line is not unfamiliar entirely, my knowledge is quite limited and I don't know a lot of the guts of it all
03:51<Doranwen>seems to be
03:51<Doranwen>at least, everything I looked at tonight was all that one IP
03:51<opalepatrick>Still not getting sound on debian 6 after installing wine a few days ago. I have tried all sorts of suggestions & checklists and no errors are showing AFAIK. How can I solve this? It worked fine previously
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03:55<grummund>(don't use it myself, but it does exactly what you need)
03:55<rjsalts>Doranwen: I've used fail2ban and it's quite good
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03:56<Doranwen>ooh, sounds like a good plan
03:57<lindi->it's somewhat odd that something like this is not integrated to openssh
03:57<lindi->or at least some sort of API
03:57<Doranwen>will I mess up anything else he set up by installing it, or does it just insert itself smoothly into whatever? it doesn't *sound* like it would be a problem with what he's already got . . .
03:57<lindi->parsing log files in text form is just ugly
03:57<grummund>Alternatively, somthing like... /sbin/iptables -I INPUT -s -j DROP
03:57<Doranwen>I'm afraid to touch his firewall because of all the complicated stuff he set up (like a bandwidth shaper so our VoIP phone runs smoothly even when we're streaming video or downloading stuff)
03:58<grummund>that just inserts a rule at the head of the table to ignore the offending IP
04:00<Doranwen>hmm, that fixes just him--if he manages to get a new IP though, then I'd be stuck with another one, right?
04:00<Doranwen>so I'm guessing I should probably go with the fail2ban
04:01<Doranwen>because that should take care of any future problem IPs, right?
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04:02<rjsalts>Doranwen: more or less
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04:07<Doranwen>ok, I installed it, but trying to figure out how to configure it got me to a dizzying list of howtos:
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04:08<Doranwen>well, this one looks helpful, but I'm afraid I understand very little of it:
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04:09<rjsalts>Doranwen: the default install in debian blocks ssh based on the auth.log files
04:10<Doranwen>so I don't have to do anything more, then?
04:11<Doranwen>what it sounds like you're saying is that it's already set up for what I need and I don't have to do any configuration
04:11<rjsalts>Doranwen: yes, you can list your iptables rules to confirm
04:12<Doranwen>sweet, I see it :D
04:12<Doranwen>thank you all very much :)
04:13<Doranwen>I will be most delighted to NOT see that guy guzzling my bandwidth in his attacks
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04:53<ricardocopano>how i can configure a samba user-non-password for client with windows xp ?
04:54<jm_>try enabling guest access
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05:04<ricardocopano>good morning, by
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05:36<Kolt>Hi! When my asus w1v boots it displayes a line " Open Sound System: failed (no kernel modules found) " And I have no sound excepts for beeps. What should I do?
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05:38<Torsten_W>Kolt, lspci | grep -i audio
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05:38<Kolt>Torsten_W: 00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 82801FB/FBM/FR/FW/FRW (ICH6 Family) High Definition Audio Controller (rev 04)
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05:39<Torsten_W>modprobe snd-hda-intel && cat /proc/asound/cards
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05:43<Kolt>Torsten_W: /sbin/modprobe snd-hda-intel && cat /proc/asound/cards
05:43<Kolt> 0 [SAA7134 ]: SAA7134 - SAA7134
05:43<Kolt> saa7133[0] at 0xfeafa000 irq 23
05:43<Kolt> 1 [Intel ]: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel
05:43<Kolt> HDA Intel at 0xfebfc000 irq 41
05:44<Torsten_W>you have a tvcard?
05:44<Torsten_W>lsmod | grep snd
05:44<Kolt>snd_hda_codec_realtek 207702 1
05:44<Kolt>snd_hda_intel 21529 0
05:44<Kolt>snd_hda_codec 57741 2 snd_hda_codec_realtek,snd_hda_intel
05:44<Kolt>snd_hwdep 12906 1 snd_hda_codec
05:44<Kolt>snd_pcm_oss 35864 0
05:44<Kolt>snd_mixer_oss 17649 1 snd_pcm_oss
05:44<Kolt>snd_seq_midi 12744 0
05:44<Kolt>snd_rawmidi 22407 1 snd_seq_midi
05:44<Kolt>snd_seq_midi_event 13124 1 snd_seq_midi
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05:44<Kolt>snd_seq 39172 2 snd_seq_midi,snd_seq_midi_event
05:44<Kolt>snd_seq_device 12995 3 snd_seq_midi,snd_rawmidi,snd_seq
05:44<Kolt>snd_pcm 52731 4 snd_hda_intel,snd_hda_codec,snd_pcm_oss,saa7134_alsa
05:44<Kolt>snd_timer 22171 2 snd_seq,snd_pcm
05:45<Kolt>snd 38189 14 snd_hda_codec_realtek,snd_hda_intel,snd_hda_codec,snd_hwdep,snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_rawmidi,snd_seq,snd_seq_device,saa7134_alsa,snd_pcm,snd_timer
05:45<Kolt>soundcore 12878 1 snd
05:45<Kolt>snd_page_alloc 12841 2 snd_hda_intel,snd_pcm
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05:46<Kolt>I don't know if I have a tv card
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05:47<Torsten_W>Kolt, make a /etc/modprobe.d/mysond.conf and put there the content of;lines=0
05:48<devil>Kolt: and use a pastebin next time
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05:48<Kolt>devil: noted sorry...
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05:51<mekt>For runlevel scripts, how can you configure the system so it never runs a particular script automatically (at a runlevel), even when the package is upgraded?
05:51<Kolt>Torsten_W: it is made
05:51<Torsten_W>Kolt, now reboot
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05:51<Kolt>alright ty
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05:56<Kolt>Torsten_W: The problem still exists. Now I don't have the OSS mixer optin in volume control center I used to have.
05:57<Torsten_W>cat /proc/asound/cards shows now what?
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05:57<Kolt>1 [SAA7134 ]: SAA7134 - SAA7134 saa7133[0] at 0xfeafa000 irq 23
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05:58<Torsten_W>Kolt, echo snd-hda-intel >> /etc/modules
05:58<Kolt>It's done, no output...
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06:03<ramsess> comment configurer une plateforme de messagerie instantanée en local svp?
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06:05<Kolt>Torsten_W: Now I have sound and hda_intel and realtek* in volume control and still the oss failiure line while boot
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06:06<Torsten_W>there is no oss in the debian kernel
06:06<Torsten_W>the kernel is using alsa since ages
06:08<Kolt>allright. And can you tell me what is this:
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06:08<Torsten_W>ask wine
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06:15<opalepatrick>Anyone any good with spotting why sound has stopped working?
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06:16<devil>opalepatrick: #alsa on freenode is good at that
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06:16<opalepatrick>lol thanks devil, had a go over here as getting no response over days on #alsa
06:16<devil>opalepatrick: thats a known bug ;)
06:17<opalepatrick>ha! :-)
06:18<opalepatrick>actually their website was down for a number of days before today
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06:34<wasanzy>am here to seek help with some issue I am having with asterisk
06:35<opalepatrick>best to just ask the question wasanzy
06:35<babilen>wasanzy: There is an #asterisk channel fwiw
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06:36<babilen>wasanzy: But just ask your question, if people in here can help they will. We can not guess what your problem is though, as our crystal balls are not quite that powerful.
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06:38<wasanzy>v astersik-gui installed and configured but when visiting:
06:38<wasanzy>I get this error: Asterisk Call Manager/1.1 Response: Error Message: Missing action in request
06:39<wasanzy>and in the errorlog/messages: Jul 12 09:54:57] ERROR[4052] ais/clm.c: Could not initialize cluster membership service: Try Agai
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06:40<wasanzy>any help?
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06:49<dominick>hi! where's dpkg?
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06:52<scinl>dominick, use dselect instead
06:52<scinl>%beer dominick
06:52*dselect pours a pint of Delirium Tremens for dominick
06:52<wasanzy>I am having problem joining the asterisk group
06:52<dselect>hello, dominick
06:52<dominick>%who are you?
06:52<dselect>I'm a chimp!
06:52<wasanzy>error: (ErrorNoChannelModes) #asterisk] Cannot join channel (+r) - you need to be identified with services
06:53<@Ganneff>and stop playing with the bot. use /msg please
06:53<wasanzy>am using the freenode channel
06:53<scinl>dominick: If you have a question, try /msg dselect x where x is what you want to know about.
06:53<wasanzy>pls help me
06:53<@Ganneff>wasanzy: and you are wrong here, this is debian and not irc support. goto #oftc for that
06:53<scinl>wasanzy: 1. "/part" 2."join oftc"
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06:56<wasanzy>scinl: am sorry but am new to the chat system, where do I type /part?
06:57<bernat>wasanzy: here
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06:58<scinl>AgentC: Hallo. Feel free to ask your Debian question!
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07:00<AgentC>scinl: I think it isnt the right channel for asking kde experimental. some configs are not saved when kde starts
07:01<babilen>AgentC: If you are using the Debian packages from wheezy/sid #debian-next might be the right channel.
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07:01<babilen>AgentC: #kde on freenode would be another one that comes to mind
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07:03*devil recommends #debian-kde
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07:06<babilen>devil: *sigh* -- How could I not think of that? (/me not using KDE, but that one should have been obvious)
07:06<babilen>devil: Ta! :)
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07:06<devil>its sometimes a bit slow during our daytime
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07:13<wasanzy>how can I joing the asterisk chat?
07:13-!-matsp888 [] has joined #debian
07:13<amphi>/join #asterisk ?
07:14<amphi>the channel may be on though, dunno
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07:17<babilen>%otherchannel wasanzy #asterisk
07:17<dselect>wasanzy: The channel you are looking for is #asterisk on Please do /server and then /join #asterisk. If your client supports it, you can also right-click the following link and choose connect: irc://
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07:19<wasanzy>I hv this error trying to join the channel: ErrorNoChannelModes) #asterisk] Cannot join channel (+r) - you need to be identified with services
07:19<jm_>it tells you why, please ask in freenode IRC support channel
07:21<Powerfuldevice>Can any of you recommend a tutorial or guide on Debian for someone with no Unix/Linux background, and for shell scripting (Bash)?
07:21<jm_>Powerfuldevice: yes
07:21<amphi>Powerfuldevice: the debian reference, which is an installable package; there used to be quite a useful 'intro to linux' book at
07:22<dselect>[abs] The Advanced Bash-Scripting Guide, an in-depth exploration of the art of shell scripting, can be found at . Packaged for Debian as abs-guide in non-free, ask me about <non-free sources>. See also <bash faq>, <bash pitfalls> or ask in #bash on and
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07:26<Powerfuldevice>Debian reference meaning man? That's incredibly useful so far.
07:26<Powerfuldevice>Thank you jm_ , amphi, dselect. I appreciate the help.
07:26<dselect>Powerfuldevice: sure thing
07:26<z1z1>quick question, i havent upgraded debian for ages and the keyring for aptitude was changed a while ago for stable how do you go about updating the keyring so aptitude says its trusted again?
07:26<dselect>Before asking in here or on the <debian-user> mailing list, you should read the Installation Guide, or if you already have Debian installed, the Debian Reference. Ask me about <ig>, <overview>, <reference>, <refcard>, <docs>, <manuals>, <fundamentals>, <newbiedoc>, <faq>, <unix lessons>, <general cli tutorial> (e.g. in your IRC client, type /msg dpkg reference).
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07:26<jm_>Powerfuldevice: ^^^^
07:28<bernat>Powerfuldevice: dselect is a bot you can message privately to get info about several topics
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07:28<Powerfuldevice>Excellent, I will read the manual.
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07:28<jm_>heh nice <dselect> Before asking ... type /msg dpkg reference).
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07:29<bernat>Powerfuldevice: is the Debian reference, it's not the same as the man pages
07:29<themill>yeah, poor confused bot. There's probably a $ownnick or similar we could use instead
07:29<Powerfuldevice>Got it. Thanks again.
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07:32<labirinto1234>hi. my server is online. Some sql problem (ddos or whatever) I don't have a fysical acces to him. Also I can't login remotly over ssh. I contacted with hosting but they take a long time to fix it. any idea?
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07:33<labirinto1234>i need to reboot it
07:34<Bushmills>what makes you believe that you're ddos'sed?
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07:37<labirinto1234>Bushmills it's possibility. Or some sql error
07:38<Bushmills>ah. more the kind of "i may not have set up the server, therefore i'm probably ddos'sed"
07:39<Bushmills>well, there's a perfect solution for "some problem", which is "fix the problem" :)
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07:40<Bushmills>works everytime
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07:40<labirinto1234>my problem is that i can't acces to server
07:41<Bushmills>that would need fixing first
07:41<labirinto1234>first acces to server
07:41<labirinto1234>or reboot server
07:41<labirinto1234>i can't
07:41<Bushmills>rebooting in the hope it might fix things is what the desperate resort to
07:41<labirinto1234>but serer is alive
07:41<labirinto1234>i can ping it
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07:42<labirinto1234>i don't have a physical acces to him. i cant see logs
07:43<labirinto1234>i can's do nothing
07:44<grummund>how do i tell what version ALSA is in use?
07:44<danlii>If the unlock dialog screen in Gnome has a white background color and the dialog itself is white with grey stripes, what could be wrong? Nvidia gfx card with propretary drivers installed with dkms.
07:44<Bushmills>grummund: dpkg -l alsa-base
07:45<grummund>Bushmills: thanks, that's interesting it shows a different version to cat /proc/asound/oss/sndstat
07:46<grummund>Sound Driver:3.8.1a-980706 (ALSA v1.0.21 emulation code)
07:46<grummund>ii alsa-base 1.0.23+dfsg-2 ALSA driver configuration files
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07:48<Torsten_W>that's normal
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07:48<Torsten_W>the driver itself is in the kernel
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07:51<grummund>i'm havin real trouble with "crackling" in recording audio, i believe this is due to problems either in the driver or alsa so i was looking to see if a later version might fix it
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07:57<Slydder>dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/kmem bs=1 count=1 seek=$RANDOM
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09:01<doktoil>hi there
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09:04<doktoil>I got a strange trouble when installing a squeeze on a x3650 IBM server
09:04<doktoil>expert mode, as the others, doesn't allow me to choose any language but english... when using same iso on my desktop, i got the choice
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09:06<devil>doktoil: iso is on a cd/dvd?
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09:10<doktoil>devil: we tried on USB stick and 2 different DVDs
09:11<devil>doktoil: i asked because bad burns happen
09:11<doktoil>devil: yes i know, but all medias have been tested on my desktop, and the language problem never happens
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09:20<doktoil>noone leaving here ?
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09:21<devil>doktoil: i cant think of anything resulting in only english offered
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09:22<diceroll>yeah indeed really weird problem doktoil
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09:22<diceroll>did you go to the end of the installation anyway ?
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09:42<diceroll>doktoil, have you tried to force locale in the boot parameters ?
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10:17<giordano>sono nella rete?
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10:18<giordano>salve a tutti, ho installato lubuntu, è questo il canale per le discussioni?
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10:21<hoshi411>im running squeeze 601 for ppc . how can i add the ppc squeeze repos to my synaptic package manager?
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10:29<devil>!it giordano
10:29<dselect>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
10:29<rpetre>devil: dpkg is in vacation :)
10:29<devil>rpetre: yeah, i forgot :)
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10:49<Davidian1024>I have a problem with mdadm
10:50<Davidian1024>I have 4 500GB drives in a RAID10
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10:51<Davidian1024>each drive has a single partition on it of type "Linux raid autodetect"
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10:52<Davidian1024>when Debian 6.0 boots I breifly see a message about drives having very similar superblocks
10:52<Davidian1024>when i try to go back into the logs I am unable to find that message
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10:53<Davidian1024>once I get to a shell I run cat /proc/partitions
10:53<Davidian1024>and one of the drives is listed without a partition
10:53<Davidian1024>if i run fdisk on the drive i can see the partition
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10:54<Davidian1024>if i then issue the w command to fdisk /proc/partitions will reflect that the partition exists
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10:54<Davidian1024>then i can manually assemble the raid by specifying each partition
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10:55<Davidian1024>mdadm --assemble mdadm --assemble /dev/md0 /dev/sda1 /dev/sdb1 /dev/sdd1 /dev/sde1
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10:56<Davidian1024>if i try to assemble the raid by uuid or with only /dev/md0 i get the error i see at boot
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10:57<bones_was_here>is it always the same hdd that you cant see a partition for? also if its supposed to assemble at boot time, it should do that even if one is missing and it has to start in degraded mode (at least, that works with the parity based arrays, i have never tried the raid10)
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10:58<Davidian1024>i just tried and i get this
10:58<Davidian1024>mdadm: WARNING /dev/sdd1 and /dev/sdd appear to have very similar superblocks.
10:58<Davidian1024>sdd1 is the only partition and it occupies the entire drive
10:59<Davidian1024>thank you
10:59<Davidian1024>that makes me feel better
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10:59<bones_was_here>lol, not very helpful i know
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10:59<bones_was_here>it is possible/allowed to use hdd's directly as raid devices, ie without a partition
10:59<Davidian1024>i've been googling around for some time
11:00<Davidian1024>several days maybe
11:00<Davidian1024>i've seen some mention of this with 500GB drives
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11:00<bones_was_here>in mdadm -D /dev/md0 are the devices listed properly, ie not with both sdd and sdd1 ?
11:00<Davidian1024>in one bug report at least
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11:01<Davidian1024>i believe so
11:01<Davidian1024>let me check
11:01<bones_was_here>seen any reports of it with other raid levels than 10?
11:01<bones_was_here>iirc the raid 10 support is a relatively new feature, previously one had to manually layer raid 1 over raid 0
11:01<Davidian1024>that i can't say
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11:02<Davidian1024>that i did not know
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11:02<bones_was_here>so its possible it has bugs that dont occur with other raid levels (i have never seen a system that did anything like this, even with really old kernels)
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11:03<bones_was_here>but i've only used linux's raid 1, 5 and 6, havn't touched 0 since experimenting under kernel 2.4 lol
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11:04<Davidian1024>i just ran mdadm -D
11:04<Davidian1024>it lists them with the partitions
11:04<Davidian1024>not as whole drives
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11:05<bones_was_here>is this with the stock kernel ?
11:06<bones_was_here>might be worth trying a newer kernel eg 2.6.38 or whatever sid has atm
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11:08<Davidian1024>Linux version 2.6.32-5-amd64 (Debian 2.6.32-35)
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11:08<Davidian1024>yeah, i'll have to try that later though
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11:09<Davidian1024>i'm at work so...
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11:10<bones_was_here>it sounds like its screwing up when it reads the superblocks and decides what devices to use
11:10<bones_was_here>whether because it reads the start of the hdd, finds a superblock, looks at the next block device (the partition on it), sees another superblock with the same uuid, adds that to the list of devices to use also
11:10<bones_was_here>or whether because the superblock contains references to both devices (doubt it, it would refer to them by uuid not device name)
11:10<bones_was_here>im not really sure
11:10<bones_was_here>but, you may be able to work around it by editing your /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf and commenting the existing ARRAY line, then replacing it with a line that specifies all the devices manually and does not include a uuid (need to run update-initramfs after this)
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11:12<bones_was_here>but imo the error should appear in dmesg for you to see after boot, not sure why you cant see it there :/
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11:13<Davidian1024>i tried specifying it manually in mdadm.conf but then there's the other thing
11:13<Davidian1024>the drives change
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11:13<bones_was_here>yeah if you plug in a usb stick or whatever
11:14<bones_was_here>it shouldn't matter if its just the array devices getting detected in a different order, though (at least, it doesn't for raid 1, 5, 6)
11:14<Davidian1024>i think the bios in the pc is weird
11:14<bones_was_here>does it work if you specify manually in mdadm.conf?
11:14<Davidian1024>sometimes the drive with debian on it (a 5th drive) is sda and sometimes its sdc
11:14<Davidian1024>it will, if the drives were ordered as i specified
11:15<bones_was_here>ah hm
11:15<Davidian1024>so it will work sometimes
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11:16<bones_was_here>it might assemble with all 5 devices listed (including partition 1 from the device that isn't part of the raid) - it may just complain about the non-raid device but assemble anyway
11:16<Davidian1024>hmm... that's a good idea
11:16<bones_was_here>still, sounds like you should report this on lkml
11:17<Davidian1024>this wouldn't be an issue with mdadm?
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11:18<Davidian1024>or would that be something I would report on lkml?
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11:19<bones_was_here>i dont -think- so :P but i dont really know how much of the superblock checking stuff is in mdadm and how much is in kernel (recently there's been efforts to combine parts of lvm and parts of md in the kernel) but which is to blame could even depend what kernel version you have
11:20<bones_was_here>i mean i think its more likely a kernel issue
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11:21<bones_was_here>but when you try a newer kernel hopefully there'll at least be some difference that indicates where the problem is
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11:23<bones_was_here>there might be a channel thats good for kernel or md stuff, i dont know of it though
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11:24<Davidian1024>something like #debian-kernel ?
11:24<bones_was_here>possibly, but more likely on freenode
11:25<bones_was_here>this is unlikely to be specific to debian's kernel build (but it could be, i guess you can try building vanilla source)
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11:25<bones_was_here>i dont see why debian would modify md code though
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11:27<bones_was_here>still, i reckon a debian bug report would be in order, since they'll likely want to fix this in stable (and maybe oldstable)
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11:27<Davidian1024>alright, i'll definitely follow up on this
11:28<Davidian1024>actually i'm kind of excited, this'll be my first bug report for Debian
11:29<bones_was_here>odd it hasn't already been noticed and fixed, i guess the raid10 hasn't been used much yet, maybe most of the raid users who would be interested in it havn't bothered replacing their manual 1+0 setups
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11:30<bones_was_here>heh my first and only debian bug was just permissions on a cfg :p
11:32<bones_was_here>hopefully raid10 will get reshaping support some day, then i'll get interested in it :)
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11:33<Davidian1024>yeah, i'm starting to wonder if it was a mistake going with raid10
11:34<daemonkeeper>What's your purpose?
11:35<bones_was_here>if you're running a busy database on it its almost certainly not a mistake :)
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11:35<bones_was_here>parity raid sucks for that
11:36<daemonkeeper>RAID 10 is the best compromise between redundancy and performance, for both reading and writing. Therefore you almost certainly can't be wrong with RAID 10.
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11:36<daemonkeeper>At least when compared to evil RAID 5.
11:36<bones_was_here>i'd disagree...
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11:37<daemonkeeper>Well, you can do even better, sure.
11:37<bones_was_here>raid5 read performance approaches that of raid0 (assuming you allow for one drive's worth of performance being lost)
11:37<daemonkeeper>But write performance sucks and even more: redundancy virtually does not exist.
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11:38<daemonkeeper>There is no reason to go with RAID 5 unless you are grasping.
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11:39<bones_was_here>if you build a raid10 out of say 8 disks you can expect performance equivalent to 4 disks in raid 0
11:39<bones_was_here>but if you raid5 8 disks, you can expect performance nearly equivalent to 7 disks in raid 0
11:39<bones_was_here>(for reading this is)
11:40<bones_was_here>for seqential writing, raid5 delivers solid performance
11:40<koollman>bones_was_here: not in the general case
11:40<bones_was_here>but for lots of little writes eg many tiny files or a database, it sucks
11:42<daemonkeeper>The MTBF for a random hard disk is pretty poor. You risk a lot going with RAID 5 which multiplies the risk for every disk you attach to the RAID.
11:42<bones_was_here>switch to raid6 above a whatever number of disks you feel is too many to trust with raid5 :)
11:42<daemonkeeper>Never, never rely on data stored in a RAID 5. Its reliability is even worse than a single disk.
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11:42<daemonkeeper>RAID 6 is better, indeed.
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11:43<bones_was_here>daemonkeeper: i strongly disagree that raid5 of say 4 disks of different batches/models is less reliable than a single disk
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11:44<bones_was_here>i have seen more hdd failures than i can remember, but only one failed raid5, and that was a hp/compaq smart array, not linux md
11:45<Davidian1024>it's just my personal home server
11:45<daemonkeeper>Its not about the manufacturer, its about the principle. RAID 5 is not designed for redudancy, but for data density with some parity by accident.
11:45<bones_was_here>Davidian1024: but i imagine you both care about the data on it, and don't have it backed up, right?
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11:46<bones_was_here>lol i doubt all that code was written by accident
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11:46<bones_was_here>it has certainly proved its worth in my exp so far
11:46<Davidian1024>bones_was_here: correct
11:47<bones_was_here>but certainly raid5's viability is decreasing as hdd's get bigger, but their time between read failures stays the same
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11:48<bones_was_here>at some point the chance of a read error when reading a disk in its entirity will reach a level where rebuilding a degraded raid5 will probably fail
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11:48<bones_was_here>hopefully ssd will solve this :)
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11:49<bones_was_here>in the meantime, raid6 ftw
11:50<daemonkeeper>This time I agree. However RAID 10 is even better than RAID 6 if you can live with the lower data density.
11:50<bones_was_here>and the inability to reshape the array
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11:51<daemonkeeper>Well, that's a controller/driver thing.
11:51<rpetre>and the higher throughput due to no checksumming :D
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11:51<debianbest>In squeeze I have the following issue/question: instead of using /dev/mapper/sda6_crypt as a swap partition, as instructed in fstab, it is using /dev/dm-2, why is that?
11:51<bones_was_here>daemonkeeper: linux md only supports reshaping parity arrays, regardless of controller or disk model
11:51<rpetre>sorry, better latency, not higher throughput
11:52<bones_was_here>rpetre: doing some XOR isn't really an issue on modern machines
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11:52<daemonkeeper>debianbest: I answered you on Freenode ...
11:52<debianbest>daemonkeeper: I couldn't read you, sorry :S
11:52<daemonkeeper>bones_was_here: Which is what I said. But guess what, there is a whole world behind Linux md!
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11:53<rpetre>daemonkeeper: you mean "beyond" :) </grammar nazi>
11:53*daemonkeeper nods
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11:54<debianbest>daemonkeeper: could you paste your reply here?
11:54<daemonkeeper><daemonkeeper> Follow the link. /dev/mapper/$whatever is a symlink to the actual device through a logical name.
11:54<bones_was_here>daemonkeeper: yes, but controllers that can touch linux md performance and features are seriously expensive
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11:55<daemonkeeper>bones_was_here: Granted this. However I was certainly referring to those, otherwise we shouldn't discuss about performance anyway. The desktop crap sold as RAID controller isn't even worth to be mentioned. Afaict those rarely feature RAID 10 though.
11:55<debianbest>daemonkeeper: in my computer the files in /dev/mapper/whatever are not symlinks, or, if they are, they don't explicitly show themselves as symlinks, how to tell the difference? (they are ALL in yellow, with no symlink notation that I am aware of)
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11:56<debianbest>daemonkeeper: nevermind, you were right :)
11:56<daemonkeeper>debianbest: They are, do ls -l /dev/mapper/whatever you will see, it points to ../dm-X with X being an arbitraty number. This also answers your question.
11:56<debianbest>daemonkeeper: I have just looked and they are blue symlinks, to the true files in /dev/dm-X
11:57<debianbest>daemonkeeper: I have always used ubuntu, where they are not symlinks, and I took for granted that in debian they would be the same, so it caught me kinda off-guard
11:58<daemonkeeper>debianbest: Also "dmsetup ls --tree" maybe comes handy to you.
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11:58<daemonkeeper>I'm very sure those are symlinks on Ubuntu as well.
11:58<bones_was_here>daemonkeeper: in my last job, there were some 14-bay disk boxes attached via 2 SCSI lines to U320 controllers that cost in the $1600-2500 range, that got left in the dust by the little linux md + intel ich* ahci array i had at home
11:59<bones_was_here>happened with both PCI-X and PCI-E x16 controllers, so it wasn't bus bandwidth...
12:00<daemonkeeper>bones_was_here: Sure, but AHCI is what, 3 generations after U320 SCSI? Besides you are certainly right, you can trash a random amount of money for your RAID controllers without significant benefit.
12:00<debianbest>daemonkeeper: very true, now I can see that sda6_crypt is (254:2), which would be equivalent to /dev/dm-2
12:00<rpetre>debianbest: dmsetup ls or dmsetup info would help
12:00<rpetre>oh, got beaten to it :P
12:00<daemonkeeper>debianbest: I don't quite understand why you do care at all. Its a reason you usually refer to dm volumes by their logical name. :)
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12:01<debianbest>daemonkeeper: the other thing that I don't get is that there's a fuse filesystem mounted, without me having configured anything in fstab to mount it, how should I understand that?
12:01<daemonkeeper>Some init script? Which fuse mount?
12:01<bones_was_here>daemonkeeper: there's no way the cheap 7200rpm sata disks i was using could equal the 15krpm U320 disks attached to those controllers, let alone outperform them
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12:02<debianbest>daemonkeeper: I care about everything that is about knowing how my system works and what it is doing in lower layers, that's why I ran away from windows after all, to regain the feel of control
12:02<daemonkeeper>bones_was_here: For a fair competition you should have compared SATA 7k with fast SAS drives :)
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12:02<bones_was_here>daemonkeeper: did that, too, and won
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12:03<daemonkeeper>ehm, on the same controller?
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12:03<daemonkeeper>I truly cast some doubt on this.
12:03<bones_was_here>there's a lot to be said for a fast intel or amd vs some MIPS/ARM chip on a card with a passive cooler ;)
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12:04<daemonkeeper>So you weren't using the same controller.
12:04<bones_was_here>same controller
12:04<daemonkeeper>Obviously not if you blame the MIPS/ARM chip.
12:04<bones_was_here>but configure the controller to expose individual disks to the os, and use linux md to raid those, vs using the controller's software to raid them
12:05<bones_was_here>hence cpu vs card cpu
12:05<erkid>what do you think which is the best kde distro ?!
12:05<debianbest>bones_was_here: how would you compare the 800mhz of a lemote MIPS chipset against an intel chipset?
12:05<daemonkeeper>And how is this related to SAS/SATA?
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12:06<bones_was_here>debianbest: i'd not expect it to touch a quad 3.33ghz xeon (let alone several of them)
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12:07<bones_was_here>daemonkeeper: not sure what you mean, i've used the same disks, on the same controller, to test linux md vs onchip raid
12:07<debianbest>bones_was_here: but why are the open hardware MIPS CPUs so slow these days? lack of better technology?
12:07<bones_was_here>the onchip raid got rolled, at least on the cards i had to test it with
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12:08<bones_was_here>debianbest: probably designed with different goals in mind
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12:09<daemonkeeper>bones_was_here: Yes, and I said: Fair enough to say most Linux MD raids beat hardware RAID controller. But I was arguing against your comparison between U320 SCSI and AHCI SATA. A modern test would compare AHCI SATA with SAS on the same controller.
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12:09<debianbest>bones_was_here: I am specifically speaking about Richard Stallman's new netbook computer, a MIPS at 800 mhz.
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12:10<debianbest>bones_was_here: do you think it should be as slow as an old Athlon 1Gz computer?
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12:11<bones_was_here>daemonkeeper: fair enough, but you wouldn't expect the ahci sata to beat the sas, especially when the sata disks were slower and less numerous, yet it did, because controller firmware vs linux md was being tested - ie, the difference can be so great that 10krpm sas vs 7krpm sata can be still not enough to allow the hardware raid to win
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12:11<bones_was_here>debianbest: wouldn't think so, no
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12:11<bones_was_here>but then, i havnt benched it :)
12:11<bones_was_here>i'd expect the athlon 1ghz to have far less performance per watt than the mips
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12:13<bones_was_here>daemonkeeper: also, in that case, the 10krpm sas disks were 2.5" and the 7krpm sata's were 3.5" which should give the sas disks a solid latency advantage as well as throughput
12:14<debianbest>bones_was_here: the thing is that this generation of netbooks has already broken the 1,6Mhz barrier and here it comes Lemote with an 800Mhz machine, as if we were still ten years ago... that's what I don't know how to make sense out of
12:14<bones_was_here>often i was comparing production servers that i couldn't experiment with, to my home machine, so was not able to make the playing field as even as proper fair testing would have required
12:15<bones_was_here>specifically, some of the servers ran windows, and i couldnt exactly take them down and boot up linux for benchmarking :p
12:16<daemonkeeper>bones_was_here: Might be, after all its not linear write/read performance which counts, but random IO. This is were faster disks pay off. You won't have any benefit if you can't delive IO performance from/to the disk in time.
12:16<bones_was_here>debianbest: hm sounds like it'd have a hard time competing with eg atom cpu's
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12:16<bones_was_here>debianbest: but idk anything about netbook performance :p
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12:18<bones_was_here>daemonkeeper: yeah some of the hardware raids beat my home linux raid in that regard, thankfully, but some unfortunately did not, value for money was bollocks
12:18<debianbest>bones_was_here: and what would you buy if you wanted to go the free open source hardware route?
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12:19<sney>my netbook has a 1.6GHz cpu, but the vast majority of the time it's actually running at 800MHz due to speedstep and not actually needing to run at the higher speed for most of what I do on a netbook.
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12:20<bones_was_here>debianbest: i've never done any research with that aim in mind, so can't give you any useful advice on that... i like speed, so i tolerate proprietary graphics drivers, BIOSes and other such evils to get it
12:21<bones_was_here>i'm hopeful that amd's apparent enthusiasm for coreboot will result in products i'll be interested in
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12:22<bones_was_here>but i'd still at least be using catalyst drivers on such a system so i'm not expecting to have a totally foss setup anytime soon
12:22<sney>a MIPS netbook is interesting, though, since mainstream x86 tech is really not ideal for low power mobile devices
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12:23<sney>you never see x86 smartphones, for instance
12:23<debianbest>bones_was_here: both intel and amd are companies I would be extremely wary of buying, don't forget their game with Trusted Computing (which is probably just the tip of the icerberg)
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12:25<bones_was_here>debianbest: intel/amd dominate cpu's, amd/nvidia dominate graphics, the best option as i see it is to ignore nvidia and buy intel/amd parts, since they are the most foss-friendly companies that produce high performance parts
12:26<bones_was_here>otherwise i have to use a computer that can't run the proprietary binaries i need for various things, and sucks for performance
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12:26<sney>I hope amd releases their death grip on gpu microcode some day. that's really the last thing stopping a truly free radeon driver
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12:27<debianbest>bones_was_here: "propietary binaries" being an euphemism for "windoze apps" in this case? :D
12:27<sney>I think he was referring to driver firmware
12:27<bones_was_here>sney: i hope the drivers become viable some day, avoiding nonfree microcode would be nice but the drivers need to work first, imo
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12:28<sney>xorg radeon is perfectly viable. good thing too, since it's the only game in town for anything older than a R600
12:28<bones_was_here>proprietary firmware in some cases, but also (eg) virtualised windows/osx, and precompiled software whose developers only support x86
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12:28<bones_was_here>games for example
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12:29<bones_was_here>ut2k4 is available for linux i386/amd64 but not for mips...
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12:29<bones_was_here>sney: not if you like playing games its not
12:30<bones_was_here>especially if you want to buy a current graphics card and use it, rather than shelve it for some years while the drivers for it slowly take shape
12:30<debianbest>bones_was_here: then have a computer/console just for games (and NOTHING else) and do all of the other stuff in a good open source computer
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12:30<sney>I have heard many different opinions on that. ultimately it seems to depend on the generation of gpu/level of support (with newer stuff being supported less), and how much of a performance freak you are
12:31<sney>but since ati actively contributes to radeon, it'll only get better
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12:31<bones_was_here>debianbest: i used to have an apartment heated by 10-15 computers, but i've been trying to get a life, and in doing so have reduced my number of home computers to 1
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12:32<bones_was_here>i'm hopeful about radeon, but its a long term hope, i'm not expecting to be able to leave catalyst behind anytime soon
12:33<bones_was_here>(ie in the next 10 years)
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12:33<bones_was_here>they're going to need to catch up with openGL for starters, and there doesn't seem to be a way past the s3 texture compression patent issue
12:33<debianbest>bones_was_here: haven't you ever thought about a middle point, such as 2 or 3 computers? 1 is not enough... unless you expect to be using windows! (given that you are going to be using games, I take for granted you're gonna go the windows route... and what's worse, windoze vista or seven, which I couldn't begin to talk about how terrible they are not letting you touch anything and doing whatever they please... no rights, no priva
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12:34<sney>I don't mind using windows so long as I don't have to support it for more than, say. 10 minutes a week
12:35<bones_was_here>debianbest: i use 1 linux computer, its a kick ass machine and i'm willing to use any software it can run natively or in a vm, but i refuse to dual boot or have extra machines - this one is plenty huge enough
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12:35<bones_was_here>debianbest: mostly i play linux native games, or old (pre-2002ish) windows games that work well in wine
12:36<bones_was_here>debianbest: but even my wine usage is restricted by my not having an nvidia card (wine seems to be written specifically for those)
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12:36<bones_was_here>still, i fill all the time i have available for gaming with the games that work on the setup i have, so no reason to change it
12:37<debianbest>bones_was_here: okay, I see. By the way, do you know how I got rid of the gaming problem? I bought an xbox and a big bunch of games so that now my computing choices are no longer constrained by my gaming needs. I thought it was a neat idea and so far it's working extremely well for me
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12:37<bones_was_here>sney: i spent all day supporting windows today :( but i'll not be doing that except while i'm getting paid :)
12:38<sney>you'll be lucky if it doesn't burn you out
12:38<bones_was_here>debianbest: an xbox is hardly a free platform, plus my preferred type of game is mouse + keyboard driven fps, which rules out consoles
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12:38<bones_was_here>yep its pretty tedious...
12:39<bones_was_here>especially as nearly all the issues i have to deal with are predictable, and preventable by not using windows
12:39<debianbest>bones_was_here: an xbox is the antithesis of a free platform, but that's irrelevant given that the xbox is only used for that, playing games. As far as it doesn't have anything to do with my computer and I ONLY use it for gaming, whatever it is doesn't really matter
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12:41<bones_was_here>debianbest: many of the games i like best are foss, or use a foss engine at least, they just require good graphics drivers so as to not crash or have lag (i define laggy graphics as anything rendering below 125fps, or with an inconsistent framerate, which looks stuttery - again, this rules out consoles for me)
12:42<sney>this conversation should probably mosey over to #debian-offtopic
12:42<bones_was_here>debianbest: in short, i'd much prefer tolerating the presence of non-free graphics drivers than tolerating an xbox
12:43<bones_was_here>probably it should, but i really need to mosey off to bed soon anyway
12:43<debianbest>bones_was_here: that's fine :)
12:44<bones_was_here>but be assured i will switch to an entirely foss setup the moment it becomes viable for the way i use it :)
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12:45<KNUBBIG>Hey, I installed xen from the repos and now I need to get the nvidia drivers to work, any ideas?
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12:45<bones_was_here>debianbest: why pick me for this discussion btw? i was talking about raid performance, not the foss-ness of things :)
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12:46<bones_was_here>KNUBBIG: search the nvnews linux forums iirc there's info about that there
12:46<debianbest>bones_was_here: haha! I don't know, it just seemed to naturally flow this way, I hadn't pre-planned it or anything like that!
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12:47<KNUBBIG>bones_was_here: thanks
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12:47<bones_was_here>KNUBBIG: been a while since i've used nvidia though, icr if they support xen kernels officially or not (certainly it wont work in a guest)
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12:47<KNUBBIG>bones_was_here: I need better performance in my guests, so I thought it would be a nice idea to install them
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12:49<bones_was_here>KNUBBIG: depending what guest OS's you're running, there are ways to get some hardware acceleration in your guests, but it depends on passing GL commands to the host's graphics driver, you can't make the GPU directly available to the guest since the proprietary drivers don't have a way to be told that the memory address range of the VRAM is different to what they expect
12:50<KNUBBIG>bones_was_here: oh okay, that's pretty ugly. I would like to use Ubuntu and Windows 7 as guests and wanted a nice graphics performance for both, so there's no way to achieve that?
12:50<bones_was_here>which virtualisation system is the best for accelerated guest rendering varies depending on the guest os
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12:51<bones_was_here>KNUBBIG: no, windows 7 is direct3d dependent so it won't work there, and for ubuntu you have to use GL pass through (probably not the correct term for it) but the performance of that sucks compared to direct hardware access
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12:52<KNUBBIG>bones_was_here: oh okay that's pretty damn ugly. I wanted to run Ubuntu and Win7 concurrently with a nice graphics performance :-/ Is there any way to achieve that?
12:52<bones_was_here>virtualbox has very limited windows guest direct3d support, but again it just passes the calls to the host's GL driver, so performance is slow, and its based on wine, so its quite a buggy d3d implementation... and doesnt support dx10/11 that you need for win7
12:53<valdyn>bones_was_here: since when does win7 need dx10 ?
12:53<bones_was_here>valdyn: he said nice graphics, so i figured that meant not having large portions of the os's graphics features unavailable
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12:54<KNUBBIG>bones_was_here: that's quite true :)
12:54<alunado>ahhh.... ubuntu and win7... SNOB !!!!
12:54<valdyn>theres probably an X Server for windows that supports ogl
12:55<bones_was_here>even if there is, performance will still suck, as it does in all the implementations that just pass GL calls to the host's GL driver
12:56<bones_was_here>to solve this properly, the virtualisation system needs to support PCI passthrough (several do, including xen), but the proprietary graphics drivers need to support using arbitrary memory address ranges for their VRAM access (neither catalyst nor nvidia do currently)
12:56<bones_was_here>if that was solved, one could eg have a GPU for the guest, and another for the host, and have good performance with both
12:57<KNUBBIG>Well that's quite bad ... is there any way, no matter what software or host/guest os are used, to have Ubuntu and Win7 run concurrently with good graphics performance?
12:57<valdyn>KNUBBIG: what is "good"
12:57<bones_was_here>afaik the best performance is when using parallels with os x + windows
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12:57<bones_was_here>KNUBBIG: basically, this is not the gaming setup you're looking for :p
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12:58<valdyn>KNUBBIG: if youre after gaming solution, forget it, about everything else is there
12:58<bones_was_here>(and probably offtopic for #debian)
12:58<bones_was_here>(not that i can talk)
12:58<KNUBBIG>bones_was_here: ^^ don't need games atm (uninstalled everyone), just don't want the ugly lag that I got when using win7 under debian
12:58<KNUBBIG>everything* not everyone
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12:59<KNUBBIG>valdyn: with good I mean a smooth mouse cursor and maybe some HD movies
12:59<valdyn>KNUBBIG: forget about movies too
12:59<valdyn>KNUBBIG: i wonder why you would care about movies anyway
12:59<valdyn>KNUBBIG: since both oses play about the same
12:59<KNUBBIG>valdyn: because I got a br device and want to use it
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13:00<KNUBBIG>valdyn: the point for me of trying that setup is that for my work I often need win and ubuntu and always rebooting isn't that nice
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13:00<valdyn>i believe the best should be debian as guest on windows, with a *windows* X Server displaying debian
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13:00<KNUBBIG>valdyn: like cygwin?
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13:01<valdyn>KNUBBIG: I guess
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13:01<KNUBBIG>valdyn: okay, thanks. I'll try that
13:01<Guest1867>hola,acabo de instalar una segunda tarjeta de red wifi,ubuntu me la detecta,pero no esta activada
13:02<Guest1867>me podeis ayudar
13:02<KNUBBIG>thanks for your help guys :)
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13:34<dselect>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
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13:34<shiloh25>noob question, i have not seen an update feature, do i have to install it or run it?
13:35<sney>if you're running stable and you installed it recently, there's a good chance that you do not have any updates
13:35<sney>but I think the software management gui lives in the system or system administration menu
13:37<retrospectacus>if you have that update-notifier applet installed. I always remove that thing... reminds me of windows
13:38<retrospectacus>if I wanna update I'll type apt-get upgrade
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13:42<dselect>hello, dominick
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13:44<cls>hey all. can someone explain this? -- i ask apt to remove libsqlite3-0, and it .. decides to upgrade sqlite3-0, upgrade python, and install a new version of python as well. ???
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13:47<jhutchins_lt>cls: I would guess you haven't been maintaining the system properly. It might be interesting to see what solutions aptitude suggests instead of apt-get.
13:48<jhutchins_lt>cls: What release?
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13:49<cls>i'll try updating my apt cache
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13:51<cls>no. could it be that i'm using wheezy packages without dist-upgrade?
13:52<retrospectacus>could be. Looks like you had python 3.0 too - let's see your sources.list
13:53<retrospectacus>,versions python2.7
13:53<judd>Package python2.7 on i386 -- wheezy: 2.7.1-8; sid: 2.7.2-3
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13:53<retrospectacus>,versions python3
13:53<judd>Package python3 on i386 -- squeeze: 3.1.3-12; sid: 3.2-3; wheezy: 3.2-3
13:54<retrospectacus>,versions python3.2
13:54<judd>Package python3.2 on i386 -- wheezy: 3.2.1~rc1-1; sid: 3.2.1-1
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13:54<retrospectacus>cls. yeah.. you have some kind of mix going on. What are you trying to do?
13:54<cls>aptitude's solution (i just installed it) is to ... remove everything related to pythons 2.6 and 3.2, chrome, and svn
13:54<cls>which seems sensible
13:55<cls>apt-get just has the dumbest solution
13:55<Black_Prince>Why would you remove libsqlite3-0 ?
13:55<retrospectacus>!why aptitude
13:55<retrospectacus>%why aptitude
13:55<dselect>aptitude has more advanced conflict/dependency resolution and will often find a solution where apt-get gives up. It can be used from the command line like apt-get plus an interactive resolver makes it much easier to recover from broken dependencies. It has advanced search capabilities (see <aptitude search>). For some upgrades (lenny->squeeze) apt-get is better though. Read the release notes and
13:55<cls>Black_Prince: i was wondering what software you'd have to do without to have absolutely nosql
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13:56<cls>why isn't aptitude's dependency resolution merged into apt-get, since apt-get doesn't have the overhead of curses etc etc?
13:57<retrospectacus>%why not aptitude
13:57<dselect>Aptitude is more memory intensive and slower than <apt-get>, the <ncurses> interface is always loaded regardless of being used or not. Moreover the resolver can sometimes produce unexpected results and most of <aptitude>'s former exclusive features are now available in <apt-get> as well. Ask me about <why aptitude> and see
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13:58<retrospectacus>we just use the stuff, dunno *why* it's however it is
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14:02<cls>ok, well thanks all. :]
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14:10<shiloh25>sney, yes fresh (2 weeks) install of stable, ty :-)
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14:11<shiloh25>retrospectacus, tyvm, worked perfect, and no updates needed, and agree on the "to much like,,, the MS thing"
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14:27<retrospectacus>shiloh25: :)
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15:00<debianbest>how can I know in what debian DVD is xmame located?
15:01<babilen>%cd contents
15:01<dselect>To find out which CD or DVD image contains a particular package or source file, use the search engine at . To see what a specific image contains, examine the package lists within the list-{cd,dvd} subdirectories for the relevant architecture at (e.g.
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15:03<debianbest>sorry, could you paste it again? I disconected unwillingly
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15:04<debianbest>and didn't have time to copy the links
15:04<babilen>%tell debianbest -about cd contents
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15:05<debianbest> thank you :)
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15:06<debianbest>babilen: I cuoldn't find xmame in there, so isn't it in any dvd? I looked and it is in the repositories (in non-free), shouldn't there be in the DVDs everything that is in the repos?
15:06<babilen>debianbest: No, non-free is not on there.
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15:07<debianbest>then how do you get to install nonfree?
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15:08<babilen>debianbest: Without a network connection? You would have to copy the .debs manually I guess. This can be made easer with apt-offline and similar tools.
15:08<babilen>debianbest: Don't you have a working network connection?
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15:09<debianbest>babilen: not in the computer where I intent to do the gaming
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15:10<babilen>debianbest: Well, you'll have to download them on a computer with network connection in that case. /msg dselect apt offline -- /msg dselect apt-zip -- /msg dselect apt-walkabout
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15:11<debianbest>babilen: thank you, I hope downloading file by file is not a lot time consuming
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15:12<babilen>debianbest: Take a look at the tools i've pointed out. They make that much easier, but I can't recommend one as I haven't used them in ages.
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15:12<babilen>debianbest: Not sure how to get the non-free and contrib indices on your box for that to work though :-\
15:13<debianbest>babilen: thanks anyway, I'll try to think about a solution
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15:17<sney>if you have another debian machine, you can download the debs and all of the dependencies with apt-get -d install, then tar them all up from /var/cache/apt and copy over wholesale
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15:17<sney>probably the fastest way to do it without setting up apt-zip or apt-offline
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15:20<sney>debianbest: ^
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15:32<debianbest>babilen: I think I am going to try using jigdo
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15:56<Peetz0r>Hi, I found an old iMac g3 and I want to install debian on that
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15:58<sney>Peetz0r: the powerpc build of squeeze should work fine, but you might have some headaches getting it to boot normally
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15:58<Peetz0r>Where do I find instructions/FAQs for that?
15:58<Peetz0r>And I should just burn a cd as usual, insert it and reboot?
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16:00<sney>it's been forever since I tangled with a g3 mac, but you can start that way at least
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16:00<sney>and if it doesn't boot the cd then the keystroke command+option+o+f during the boot chime will get you into openfirmware, which is like the bios
16:01<Peetz0r>should I expect a working network?
16:01<sney>looks like #debianppc is where the experts live
16:01<Peetz0r>e.g. should I download the netinstall or full cd
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16:02<sney>good question, but find out what nic it uses and that should be cleared up
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16:05<sney>a quick google suggests sungem, which doesn't require firmware
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16:19<Peetz0r>what exactly do I need to do after inserting the cd? what do command and option look like?
16:20<Peetz0r>option is alt, and command is apple, right?
16:20<Peetz0r>so it's alt+apple+f?
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16:22<Peetz0r>okay, doesn't work
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16:22<Peetz0r>I do see the cd from the Mac OS 8.5 desktop
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16:27<sney>all 4 at the same time during the BOOOOV when you first hit the power button
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16:27<sney>it takes some practice to time it right
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16:47<Peetz0r>okay, I got it to boot fropm cd. I only had to hold C :)
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16:48<Peetz0r>And now I typed "install" and it loaded the kernel and I'm back at the Open Firmware prompt
16:49<Peetz0r>lemme take a pic of that
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16:51*Peetz0r tries again
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16:53<Peetz0r>ah, it says "ramdisk load failed !"
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16:59<Croharin>Hello :D
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17:00<Croharin>y a un francais ici ? !! xD
17:00<Croharin>Non... ='(
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17:01<Black_Prince>dselect fr
17:01<dselect>Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debian-fr. Francophone users: for help in french, please go to #debian-fr.
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17:01<Croharin>Merci Dselect parce-que je suis impeut perdu =)
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17:28<jberiksen>don't know if this is the right channal. I get this fail "failed to assemble all arrays" and can't solve it, anyone how want to help me?
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17:32<devil>jberiksen: please elaborate, maybe someone can pick up on it
17:32<devil>where, when...
17:33<retrospectacus>definitely idfma
17:33<dselect>Insufficient Data For Meaningful Answer
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17:44<jberiksen>When i start my server it wouldn't get running because I get this error "failed to assemble all arrays". I don't know much about the server, because I have take over the maintains form another and havn't get the information. This is the first time i get such problems, normal i only have to get apache, mysql and such running.
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17:45<jberiksen>I this it is raid 1
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17:55<valdyn>jberiksen: it means that both members of that raid1 are not found - find them
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17:56<jberiksen>but i need a littel bit help to how
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18:02<tsftd>i'm having issues getting virtualbox to work on a custom-compiled kernel (needed to add support for a nonstandard remote), any chance of some help?
18:02<tsftd>the issue is in the kernel module not compiling properly
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18:03<ceipha>How much can a full Debian installation possibly be if one installs all the 29000++ packages? It is 8 install DVDs, it would be like 4.4×8=35.2 Gbytes, but most part of the packages is compressed, as far as I understand.
18:04<ceipha>What can be an average compression ratio?
18:04<tsftd>pastebin of error:
18:05<tsftd>ceipha -- yes, it would expand quite a bit... but why in the world would anyone install all the packages?
18:05<ceipha>tsftd, just curious.
18:05<rpetre>ceipha: it's not only stupid to install all the packages, but also impossible, a lot of them conflict with others
18:05<tsftd>thats also what i was thinkin rpetre
18:05<ceipha>rpetre, I have a point.
18:06<ceipha>rpetre, tsftd, is it forbidden to wonder about stupid things?
18:06<tsftd>ceipha, i have no clue what the avg comp ratio would be...
18:06<ceipha>rpetre, I meant, YOU have a point. Sorry.
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18:06<retrospectacus>the point is, there's a shitload - more that any other distro, I believe
18:06<tsftd>no, i meant that there would be conflicts, so it would be impossible to install them all -- not that it was stupid
18:07<tsftd>retro -- and yet, it doesn't have all that i wish it did...
18:07<ceipha>retrospectacus, true, as far as I know, that's why I am a big fan of Debian :)
18:07<retrospectacus>you just have to add it ;)
18:07<rpetre>ceipha: an average desktop "install ALL the shiny stuff" installation wouldn't go over 2Gb (that is if you don't put games that use lots of data, like flightgear)
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18:08<tsftd>well honestly i run gentoo personally... i just use deb for my parents' computers
18:09<tsftd>which is why i need virtualbox... to put in an XP VM for the random obscure programs they "have to have"...
18:10<tsftd>pastebin of compile error w/make.log included
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18:12<rpetre>tsftd: doesn't virtualbox-ose package help? i use it at work with no problems
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18:13<tsftd>nope, it APPEARS that it is having issues with my linux headers... from when i had to recompile the kernel
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18:13<themill>where's this kernel from?
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18:13<themill>(it's not a debian kernel)
18:13<lindi->tsftd: wouldn't it be easier to build the nonstandard remote driver as a separate module?
18:13<lindi->tsftd: so that you could use supported kernel
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18:14<tsftd>i dont remember exactly where i got it, seeing as how i compiled it like a month ago
18:14<themill>tsftd: either grab vbox from backports (which should work with the newer kernel) or get the kernel from backports (2.6.38 is there) or both.
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18:14<tsftd>how do i get the kernel from backports? and can i compile the custom module in it?
18:15<tsftd>it's a hacked patch to enable support for a nonstandard hardware
18:15<rpetre>tsftd: i recommend you stick with the debian kernel or if you must recompile it, do it the debian way, to have all the packages needed for dkms
18:15<tsftd>i did compile it the debian way
18:15<themill>dselect: tell tsftd about backports
18:15<tsftd>i've got linux-headers-2.6.39_custom.2_i386.deb -- and installed them
18:15<themill>tsftd: a newer vbox might be all you need then.
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18:16<tsftd>ok, one sec
18:16<themill>,versions virtualbox --release squeeze-backports
18:16<judd>Package virtualbox on i386 -- squeeze-backports: 4.0.8-dfsg-2~bpo60+1
18:17<tsftd>i just did a squeeze backport to get libreoffice, so lemme see
18:17<tsftd>"apt-get install -t squeeze-backports virtualbox-ose" should be good then?
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18:18<themill>tsftd: aptitude -t squeeze-backports install virtualbox virtualbox-dkms
18:18<themill>tsftd: that might work too, but given that the package name has changed it might not.
18:18<themill>istr having to manually pull the dkms package
18:18<tsftd>The following NEW packages will be installed:
18:18<tsftd> virtualbox virtualbox-dkms virtualbox-qt
18:18<tsftd>The following packages will be upgraded:
18:18<tsftd> virtualbox-ose virtualbox-ose-dkms virtualbox-ose-qt
18:18<tsftd> -- sound right?
18:19<themill>yeah, the ose packages can be uninstalled, actually, as they're just dummy packages to make the renaming easier
18:19<tsftd>ah okay
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18:20<tsftd>im kinda weird, ive used linux for almost a decade but this is my first time using a GUI (X server) implementation
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18:21<tsftd>i run servers so i've always done everything over ssh... kinda funny working backwards... and im using lxde, so it's not exactly the most standard, either
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18:23<tsftd>themill zomg WIN! thx much
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18:24<themill>:) happy hunting
18:24<tsftd>heh they're off to china tomorrow so they were panicking a bit ;P
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19:07<ceipha>rpetre, my /usr takes 15.8 GB. Seems that I don't have a typical desktop installation ;)
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19:11<jberiksen>i get this error when i try to start my server.
19:11<jberiksen>I don't know much about the server then the help have to be very detailed
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19:17<lindi->jberiksen: "' not identified in config" sound bad
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19:19<jberiksen>lindi: is there any thing to do?
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19:19<lindi->jberiksen: can you put the complete initrd.img online somewhere? and also /proc/cmdline
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19:20<Barswingerpuntocom> /NAMES #Mexico
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19:24<jberiksen>lindi: yes i'm in proces
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19:29<jberiksen>lindi: the initrd.img should be in the /boot right?
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19:32<lindi->jberiksen: yes
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19:47<jberiksen>lindi: I can't find a way to open the folder i this mode
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19:49<dart>Hi. It is possible to me to get an channel list?
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19:59<dselect>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
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20:09<kyentei>Hm, I've made the step from gnome to kde (for now) - but is there a quick & easy way to get rid of your basic gnome installation?
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20:12<kyentei>Like, remove most gnome applications that come with the gnome desktop?
20:12<kyentei>And gnome desktop itself, obviously.
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20:14<nevyn>kyentei: if you installed using aptitude with auto on and you didn't unmark a bunch of packages you can just remove the gnome-desktop package and it all goes away but it's not a good move
20:15<kyentei>Why is it not?
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20:16<nevyn>kyentei: cause you get a tiny bit of disk space for a whole bunch of grief
20:17<kyentei>grief? What I now get is a flooded menu with applications I don't use.
20:17<kyentei>It's not the diskspace I would do it for anyway =p
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20:18<kyentei>And what grief exactly? Would I be breaking my system?
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20:19<chealer>nevyn: there is no gnome-desktop package. maybe task-gnome-desktop
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20:19<chealer>kyentei: not if you do it correctly
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20:20<chealer>kyentei: you could remove libgnome* although that may remove a bit more than you wished
20:20<kyentei>chealer: Yeah, that seems like a bit much.
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20:21<kyentei>chealer: Though, i've had that I wanted to remove for instance empathy. And then it would stuff all other gnome apps into the apt-get autoremove list.
20:21<kyentei>Maybe that's an idea.
20:24<chealer>kyentei: I don't understand what you mean by " i've had that I wanted to remove for instance empathy"
20:24<kyentei>Back when I used gnome, I wanted to remove empathy
20:24<kyentei>And when I did "apt-get remove empathy"
20:24<kyentei>It would also remove all other gnome applications.
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20:27<zykotick9>kyentei, if you don't care about the disk space, why not just edit your menu and remove the apps you don't use from there?
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20:37<kyentei>zykotick9: And all the default applications? I thought I'd just get rid of it with one easy command.
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21:22<kyentei>To answer my question earlier
21:22<kyentei>gnome-desktop-environment is a meta package for it all
21:22<kyentei>And it removes everything safely.
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21:35<Black_Prince>kyentei, it doesn't remove anything. It just marks it for removal, since they were dependencies of metapackage, but they are not used anymore.
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21:37<Black_Prince>poor judd
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22:12<clipse`>im having this weird issue, when i logged in today i typed w as usual and i saw a root login and then a second later it was gone.. -- any ideas?
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22:24<zalaey>oi. so wine on squeeze question...
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22:25<cjac>hey all
22:25<cjac>what's the channel name for kfreebsd?
22:25<cjac>(sorry for spamming #debian-mentors earlier)
22:26<cjac>how do I enable the serial console?
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22:26<dselect>Debian GNU/kFreeBSD is a port that consists of GNU userland using the GNU C library on top of FreeBSD's kernel, coupled with the regular Debian package set. kfreebsd-amd64 and kfreebsd-i386 were released as a "technology preview" for Squeeze, ask me about <install guide>. #debian-kbsd on
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22:30<zalaey>im trying to get world of warcraft working and when i load up Launcher.exe it says that it needs write permision to the directory warcraft is installed in
22:30<zalaey>im not too sure what permissions wine would need for that directory
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22:34<zykotick9>zalaey, you might want to try the #winehq channel on freenode
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22:41<vrkalak>installed a basic monthly build of debian-testing .iso ... and now working at configuring fluxbox for it
22:42<vrkalak>it's actually rather fun
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22:45<zalaey>zykotick9: i would however im using squeeze's wine.
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22:47<zalaey>zykotick9: which is 1.0.1 they recommend 1.2.x for using wow. so since i can't upgrade this computer to testing.
22:47<zalaey>i ask her.
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22:51<zykotick9>zalaey, there is a 3rd party repo for wine at -- i haven't used wine in a while however, so really can't comment on it, or this repo USE AT YOUR OWN RISK (FYI this is how i got AngryBirds to work a couple of months ago)
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22:52<zalaey>zykotick9: yeah i was thinkig of trying them yesterday however i'm always cautious about using non offical sources.
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22:53<zykotick9>zalaey, i avoid 3rd party repos as well
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23:32<Arrowmaster>zykotick9: that repo hasnt been updated in over a year i think
23:33<zykotick9>Arrowmaster, as i said, i haven't use wine or that repo in a while - it did have a version above what the OP was asking for. Thanks for the heads up though, i won't recommend it again.
23:34<sney>lamaresh has not been updated in a while, but it does have a minor upgrade to the version currently in debian, and it works as well as most 3rd party repos
23:34<zalaey>yeah i got an "update your wine" responce from #winehq so im waiting a few hours ^_^
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23:35<Arrowmaster>theres but its not a repo you an add to apt, just .deb's to download
23:35<sney>there's a source for current wine builds as well(no repo, just .debs), or you can build it from source and install with stow
23:35<zalaey>is the -r option for apt-get the same as --no-install-recommends ?
23:36<zalaey>was looking throu man apt-get a few times and missed it if its in there
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23:38<Hydroxide>uh, IIRC wine also has a repository with their own debs, which of course we don't support here but they probably do...
23:38<Hydroxide>(in their channel)
23:39<Arrowmaster>they do not
23:39<zalaey>Hydroxide: there repository information was linked to testing's wine maintainer
23:39<sney>they don't, they have links to lamaresh
23:39<Arrowmaster>they dont even have the links to the lamaresh repo anymore
23:39<zalaey>at least for debs
23:39<Hydroxide>ah, apparently the one they used to have is defunct
23:39<zalaey>and i can't put testing on this box as i wont often be around to maintain it
23:39<Hydroxide>so I'm not mistaken, just out of date :)
23:40<zalaey>Hydroxide: yeah seems to happen often with wine ^_^
23:40<zalaey>who maintains squeeze's wine?
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23:41<Arrowmaster>Ove Kaaven is the official maintainer but theres not been a lot of activity for a while
23:42<mARCUs>anyone know a channel for slackware users
23:42<zalaey>yeah was thinking of lending a hand, its been way too long since ive helped maintain any debian packages.
23:42<zalaey>mARCUs: probably on freenode #slackware ?
23:42<craigevil>you can also get wine from Directory listing | Wine (wine-unstable) packages -
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23:43<BlackF1r3>i need help
23:44<Hydroxide>zalaey: btw, debian experimental does have 1.1.24, though that's meant for use with debian unstable and with even fewer guarantees than unstable has. unstable also has 1.1.32. squeeze won't get new feature versions of anything, in accordance with debian's stable policy, but once wheezy (testing / the following stable release) has a newer version someone will probably make a backport for squeeze-backports
23:44<mARCUs>im a noob and im using xchat ........ do I type in #slackware to add it
23:44<zalaey>craigevil: i can't put testing/unstable/sid on this computer. i was supposed to get squeeze up and run and working and pretty much stand alone.
23:45<Hydroxide>mARCUs: /server and then /join #slackware
23:45<mARCUs>thans again
23:46<craigevil>zalaey, you could also grab wine from the Mepis repo, it is based on debian stable, the maintainer posts frequently at
23:46<Hydroxide>zalaey: debian stable releases are a carefully quality-tested point in time. some things like wine are necessarily always improving and won't be perfect in any given stable release. if you need a newer wine package you will probably want to either grab a newer set of debs for just wine from experimental or unstable, or recompile those source debs (as a backport) for squeeze
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23:46<Hydroxide>zalaey: or compile it from source in the normal way and put it in /usr/local
23:46<zalaey>mARCUs: not sure if there is a slackware channel here, i know most irc programs tho would accept "/connect" then "/join #slackware"
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23:48<zalaey>Hydroxide: yeah i know, thats why 13 years later i still use use debian-stable for other peoples machines. personally i compile everything by hand for my own box :)
23:48<mARCUs>nice thanks zalaey ...i just say the option in one of my menus
23:48<Hydroxide>zalaey: everything? you really run linux from scratch?
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23:51<mARCUs>wow its like a library in there
23:51<mARCUs>deb and ubuntu get to have all the fun
23:51<Hydroxide>mARCUs: a lot of channels have times of day when they are more active or less active, since their communities are less global and so timezones matter more. and, a lot of communities are simply smaller.
23:52<Hydroxide>mARCUs: those are certainly things I like about the debian community, but it still doesn't make us any more correct as the place to get slackware support
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23:52<mARCUs>oh okay.....
23:52<mARCUs>im not using it currently
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23:52<zalaey>Hydroxide: yeah i got used it when i had a "monitor that wouldn't work" dropped off at my house. turns out it was really an iMac, "kehei" but was borked i had to replace the mem and harddrive with IBM hardware. non of the linux distros at the time, 2001, supported it or would even boot it so i had to run everything from scratch. that kind of cought me on the bug of doing so :)
23:52<mARCUs>just going for my last round of distro placement
23:53<Hydroxide>mARCUs: I would encourage you to ask your slackware question in #slackware and then leave xchat open for as long as you can, even 6, 10 hours, even if this means going to sleep
23:53<Hydroxide>you might have a response the next time you look. if not, try one of their user support email lists or web forums
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23:54<mARCUs>you guys are so nice here your making it hard for me to switch chat windows
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23:54<Hydroxide>heh. well we're happy to help with debian issues or questions, and you're free to listen even without any :) but we can't help with slackware here any more than they'll help you with debian in #slackware :)
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23:55<zalaey>Hydroxide: i have this problem where i hate it if im not using the computer and its "cycles" are being wasted idling. so whenever i sleep, take care of the kids or whatnot i always try to have it doing something -- if its not compiling things for me, its helping the folks at electricsheep.
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23:57<Hydroxide>zalaey: hehe. you could alternatively try saving power and paying less for electricity :) [or helping your landlord to minimize future rent increases if you don't pay your own utilities]
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23:58<Hydroxide>but, yeah, things were certainly messier in 2001
23:58<mARCUs>o this is great.... i just found the full channels list. i think i may have just had my first techgasm... sorry that im forcing my lame noobery on you guys
23:58<calvinow>zalaey: Remember that CPU's use more power when processing than when idle. My 4-core AMD pulls nearly 70 more watts while compiling kernels versus idling
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23:58*Hydroxide grins at mARCUs :)
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---Logclosed Wed Jul 13 00:00:32 2011