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#debian IRC Logs for 2011-09-20

---Logopened Tue Sep 20 00:00:01 2011
---Daychanged Tue Sep 20 2011
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00:14<roscarvov>i told the other guys what was happing
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01:20<furyoshonen>how did I get here?
01:21<furyoshonen>is ubuntu a debian distribution?
01:21<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu ( instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian>.
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01:42<Kluv>hi dirz
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01:50<wols>Kluv: you have a debian problem?
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02:48<Kluv>how do you private message in here?
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03:49<Luminous>So after one of the recent updates I noticed my system felt slower than it should, and I think I've found out why. My processors aren't scaling up. Both cores are staying at 525 MHz instead of scaling up to 2.1 GHz when they're needed.
03:50<Luminous>I added the CPU Scaling applet to the Gnome taskbar and when I manually select 2.1 Ghz, it prompts me for the root password, but doesn't actually change the frequency.
03:51<jm_>and if you configure cpufreq manually with cpufreq-set? you can also do this by writing directly in the files in /sys
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03:51<Luminous>Not sure I've never had to do that before, so I'm not familiar with it.
03:51<jm_>well cpufreq-info will show current config
03:52<Luminous>yep, they're both running at 525 MHz according to that too.
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03:52<wols>Luminous: how do you know, actually know, it never scales up?
03:53<wols>Luminous: and which governor is used?
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03:53<jm_>which governor is selected?
03:53<Luminous>I left the cpu scaling meters on the taskbar, and then played some youtube videos which normally would make them scale up and down to keep the videos running smooth.
03:53<jm_>if debian kernels have cpufreq stats enabled then cpufreq-info will show if it scales up
03:53<Luminous>How can I tell which governor is used?
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03:53<jm_>put the output of cpufreq-info on pastebin
03:54<wols>and stuff like youtube movies mean nothing at all. you need stuff like burn* or mprime to test it
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03:57<jm_>interesting - looks set correctly
03:57<jm_>just make sure you test it properly like wols said
03:58<Luminous>line 24 looks weird, "frequency should be within 525 Mhz and 525 Mhz"
03:58<jm_>ahh yes, missed that - someone had a similar issue a week or two ago
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03:59<Luminous>It seemed to work fine just a few days ago, I'm not sure when it stopped because most of the time it's not an issue, I just noticed recently that a lot of things like flash were laggy, and the interface in general just felt less snappy.
03:59<Luminous>Did they find a solution?
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04:00<jm_>no idea, it was a laptop and it was somehow related to being on batter IIRC
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04:01<jm_>what does this show: grep '.' /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/scaling_max_freq
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04:03<Luminous>oh ok the paste wasn't working
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04:04<wols>Luminous: is it a laptop?
04:04<jm_>try taking the first number from /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_available_frequencies and do : echo number > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_max_freq
04:04<jm_>repeat for cpu1
04:04<jm_>did you check if it behaves properly when it's on AC power?
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04:05<Luminous>yeah it's been on ac power all day
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04:05<Luminous>i tried rebooting it with it plugged in just to make sure
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04:06<Luminous>I just echo'd that to both CPUs
04:06<jm_>does cpufreq-info show a different "should be within" range now?
04:06<Luminous>nah it's the same, and doing cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_max_freq shows it still at 525000
04:07<Luminous>I ran them as root
04:07<wols>you sure you didn#t change something in BIOS? checked your BIOS? what cpu is it actually?
04:07<Nik05>some here with a little mplayer experience?
04:07<wols>!tell Nik05 about anyone
04:08<Luminous>AMD Turion X2 64, been running Debian 6 on it for several months now with no issue, just noticed the mild sluggishness the past day or two and when I went poking around, realized it wasn't scaling up any more.
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04:08<jm_>Luminous: which updates were they then? did you try this without GNOME, i.e. in single user mode?
04:09<Nik05>wols, so you know something? :P
04:09<Nik05>i have a playlist with a lot of files
04:09<Luminous>Not yet, I'm about to shut all the way down and then power it back up and see what happens, I'll be back in a few minutes.
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04:09<Nik05>when i start the playlist it starts at the beginning ofcourse but how do i start for example number 20 of the playlist?
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04:12<jm_>I think mplayer only has next/prev playlist entry options
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04:13<Luminous>So it seems to be functioning just fine now, I didn't change anything, but I did notice something, not sure if it's related at all.
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04:14<Luminous>On the gdm3 login screen earlier, in place of the hostname it had "6.0.2", I guess the current version of Debian. This time, it had the actual hostname I set on install, and CPU scaling seems to be functioning.
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04:14<Luminous>If it happens again I'll collect some more data and make a topic about it on, but I've gotta go to bed, I have to be up in like 3 hours, thanks for all your help guys!
04:14<jm_>heh that would be an interesting connection
04:15<Luminous>We'll just call it a brainfart for now, you guys have a good night, :-)
04:15<jm_>good night
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05:38<skainz>hello, any idea howto disable edit function in grub2 ?
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05:41<wols>skainz: after a quick google:
05:43<Black_Prince>wols, isn't that grub 1 ?
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05:44*wols hangs head in shame
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05:44<skainz>wols, thanky you anway, i just found out :-)
05:46<wols>skainz: care to tell us how?
05:47<skainz>wols, no, i meant that you link was for grub1! sorry,
05:48<wols>but I'd look for something similar (e.g. passwords in grub2)
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05:56<skainz>wols, ok, found it out:
05:58<skainz>1st use grub-mkpasswd-pbkdf2 to create a hashed password.
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06:00<skainz>2nd, put set superusers="Benutzername 1" \n password_pbkdf2 <Benutzername 1> grub.pbkdf2.sha512.10000.<salted.passwd> \n in etc/grub.d/40_custom
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06:00<skainz>followedby update-grub. grub stills displays edit and command line optin, but asks for password after pressing e.
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06:04<wols>I hate this mangling code together with data like in grub2 scripts :( total mess
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06:06<skainz>wols, well, you could put this inside a separate file and use an source <file> statemant inside 40_custom.
06:07<wols>that doesn't solve the problem but simply hides it under the rug :)
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06:25<Find>Åñòü êòî?
06:25<babilen>Find: Do you have a Debian related question we can help you with?
06:25<skessa>Find: ask question .
06:25<dpkg>eto anglijsko govorjashhij kanal, pozhalujsta govorite po anglijski ili posetite #debian-russian (Russian speakers please go to #debian-russian)
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06:26<dpkg>No Offense, or den norske debian kanalen #debian-no. For skandinaviske brukere av debian. It is the norwegian channel #debian-no for scandinavian users.
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06:29<Find>Ãîâîðèòå ïî ðóññêè?
06:29<dpkg>Kernel: uname -r, or cat /proc/version. Debian: cat /etc/debian_version (or lsb_release -sc) and: dpkg -l libc6 | tail -n 1. Package: dpkg -l _pkgname_. Miscellaneous: try --version on the command; check /etc/apt/sources.list; run apt-cache policy <packagename>. Do cat /etc/{*version*,*release*,*issue*} which should grab almost all distributions.
06:29<wols>!tell skainz about msg the bot
06:30<dpkg>well, upgrade is what keeps your box from getting r00ted, or what you do with aptitude. Do an aptitude update first, and then an aptitude upgrade. Ask me about <security>. If you upgrade to a new stable version of Debian, read its release notes first. Ask me about <etch->lenny> <lenny->squeeze>.
06:31<Black_Prince>dpkg, msg the bot
06:31<dpkg>Please have conversations with the bots in a private message as much as possible. Instead of using "!topic" or "!tell <your nick> about <topic>" in the channel, you can just "/msg dpkg topic". See <bot help> and to learn more and browse my factoids on-line at . If you're helping people, you can check that you have the right factoid before showing it to others.
06:31<Black_Prince>wols, wrong target :P
06:31<Find>Debian is Prompt for Server
06:32<skessa>wols , i did Do an aptitude update first, and then an aptitude upgrade.
06:32<wols>Find: we strongly suggest you use a russian channel as told above. #debian-russian
06:32<skessa>but i still have 6.0.2
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06:33<wols>skessa: and what did you expect to have?
06:33-!-Blacker47 [] has joined #debian
06:33<wols>and with what in your sources.list?
06:33<skessa>newer version , that i can fix the wine like we spoked about yesterday
06:33<wols>pastebin your sources.list then
06:33<Find>wols: there are no users!
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06:34<wols>Find: then ask in english, with latin letters, no cyrillic
06:35<skessa>wols, pastbin your sources.list ? cat /etc/apt/sources.list ?
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06:36<skessa>aha i understand 2 sec.
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06:37<skessa>wols ,
06:37<Find>wols: requires minimal assembly for a Web server. where to get them?
06:37<wols>Find: get what?
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06:38<wols>Find: with debian you put the proper debian repos in your sources.list and then you can install apache2, lighttpd or nginx or whatever
06:38<wols>!tell skessa about squeeze-wheezy
06:38<wols>!tell skessa about squeeze->wheezy
06:39<wols>skessa: note that it might, and usually will, break horribly
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06:39<Find>wols: Ìîæíî ëè èñïîëüçîâàòü ëþáîé ñòàáèëüíûé ðåëèç Äåáèàí äëÿ âåá ñåðâåðà? Åñòü ëè ñïåöèàëüíûå ñåðâåðíûå ðåëèçû?
06:39<Find>wols: Can I use any Debian is a stable release for a web server? Is there a special server releases?
06:40<wols>Find: use debian stable 6.0.2, aka "squeeze"
06:40<wols>there is no special server release of debian stable. use the netinst image and then install your webserver packages you need
06:41<skessa>ok , thanks wols, i wil lock on it later agan , :)
06:41<Find>wols: =) Thanks!
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06:42<deavid>i'm trying to do a debootstrap for wheezy in a very old debian system, and i'm getting an error
06:43<deavid>the debian system is "Debian Lenny 4.0" , and i'm doing;: "debootstrap --arch i386 wheezy /home/debiansid"
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06:44<deavid>and fails with this message: "W: Failure trying to run: chroot /home/debiansid mount -t proc proc /proc"
06:44<wols>deavid: did you try to run this manually?
06:44<Black_Prince>wait, what ... Debian Lenny 4.0 ?
06:44<deavid>yes, and i get: "mount: permission denied"
06:45<Black_Prince>deavid, you need to run debootstrap as root ...
06:45<wols>are you root?
06:45<deavid>wait, is Etch, not lenny
06:45<deavid>4.0, etch.
06:45<deavid>yes, i am root
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06:46<deavid>"whoami" returns root.
06:46<deavid>chroot seems to work, but mount inside the chroot is failing; but i don't understant that mount
06:47<Find>wols: GUI bad effect on the work of a web server?
06:47<deavid>maybe "chroot" in Etch is too old? :-S
06:48<wols>Find: it's simply unneeded and superfluous
06:48<wols>Find: if you have enough RAM and CPU, you can install one, but there is no real point for it
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06:51<deavid>Black_Prince, wols: do you think i should try anything? i'm searching the web for this problem, but i can't find anything
06:52<wols>any special reason you cannot upgrade to a supported debian release. say,squeeze? *g*
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06:53<wols>normally, you bind mount /proc into the chroot directory BEFORE you chroot into it. maybe it worked different back in etch
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06:53<pabs>anyone know how to get smart bookmarks like this screenshot in iceweasel?
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06:54<wols>pabs: the bookmarks or the search fields?
06:55<pabs>search fields on the bookmarks bar
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06:58<jm_>you can drag search area to the toolbar and add additional search engiens from it there
06:59<pabs>hmm, seems I can only have one search area
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06:59<wols>you'd probably need an extension to get something like this
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07:00<jm_>ahh indeed, I thought it allows one to add it multiple times, sorry
07:00<jm_>perhaps an extension indeed
07:02<pabs>hmm, finding that extension sounds like a bit of an adventure
07:03<wols> ?
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07:05*pabs goes wading
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07:06<jm_> sounds that it might allow it
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07:08<pabs>looks abandoned
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07:12<kellar> pabs: are you aware of the less fancy trick of sticking %s in the bookmark url and invoking it using a keyword+argument? dunno if that's enough for you
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07:13<pabs>I thought about that, but I prefer to just do paste + enter
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07:36<kellar>pabs: you can buil1d one of those in 5 minutes with gtkdialog. it won't be integrated in your browser though.
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07:55<amos>anyone in here ?
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08:27<Ezprezo>Would anyone happen to know how to get a battery life monitor on the system tray?
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08:29<lindi->Ezprezo: at least in squeeze with laptop and desktop tasks installed it is there by default in gnoem
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08:29<Ezprezo>Oh, yeah I suppose it's because I'm using Fluxbox..
08:30<Ezprezo>Hmm, does anyone know the name of the program? I will add it to the startup
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08:35<thewanderer>hm, I use xbattmon which displays a bar at the screen edge rather than a tray icon... works for me
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08:48<dima_>hi ...another question this to make slim my default login manager?
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08:52<wols>dima_: isn't there an init script that starts slim?
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08:52<jm_>dima_: check /etc/X11/default-display-manager
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08:55<gianluca>Non so come si ripristano i temi prefediniti di ubuntu , potreste aiutarmi?
08:56<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
08:56<gianluca>I am italian
08:56<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
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08:57<Erbureth>gianluca: /join #debian-it
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08:58<gianluca>Posso sapere delle cose ?
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08:59<gianluca>Vorrei sapere come si ripristano i temi prefediniti di ubuntu
09:00<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
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09:26<dima_>where are environment variables defined?
09:26<dima_>I want to change some
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09:27<wols>depends which ones. any process can alter its env variables and children will inherit it
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09:29<thewanderer>system-wide env config is typically found in /etc/environment... but if anything really reads that, I'm not sure
09:30<dima_>hmmm...well...I want that $TERM = xterm (not gnome terminal or whatever)
09:30<dima_>and stuff like that
09:30<dima_>yes, i guess those are system wide
09:30<dima_>let me check if they are there
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09:31<dima_>well, that file exists, but it's empty....
09:31<wols>no they aren't. maybe you should tell us what you actually want to do
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09:32<dima_>I have awesome VM, and when I press Mod4+enter it's spawns me a terminal, the default one which is set by environment variable $term
09:33<wols>e.g. TERM is set by getty, your login manager. all these many variables are all set by totally different programs. there is no single point to define them all, cause when you set this one in /etc/environment, getty will probably overwrite it, etc
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09:33<dima_>ok, I got should I do?
09:33<thewanderer>dima_: TERM is for a different purpose. use this instead: update-alternatives --config x-terminal-emulator
09:34-!-mode/#debian [+l 519] by debhelper
09:34<thewanderer>this will set your system's default terminal emulator
09:34<dima_>shall I use that as a command?
09:34<wols>makes no sense. cause I'm logged in via ssh right now and it says $TERM=xterm. there is no X anywhere but since my ssh client said so, this is what I have for term. it no program ever should use that var content to run a program. that's retarded. under screen, it's "screen". you don't want to run this as terminal emulator...
09:34<thewanderer>yes, as root
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09:35<wols>dima_: and then in awesome WM, you let the hotkey call x-terminal-emulator
09:36<wols>not the $TERM environment variable
09:36<thewanderer>doesn't the hotkey already call x-terminal-emulator?
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09:36<thewanderer>that's madness
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09:36<dima_>but...if I restart, I will not lose the changes?
09:37<thewanderer>wait, awesome *does* use x-terminal-emulator
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09:37<thewanderer>the change is permanent, yes, and you don't have to restart
09:37<dima_>ok, thanks you guys
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09:38<cwood>If you are ssh'ed in, isn't the $TERM from your original shell?
09:38<dima_>I'm not ssh'ed
09:38<cwood>It's just what you UI tells the machine about what it can render, iirc defined in termcap.
09:39<wols>cwood: IIRC your ssh client determins the $TERM in the session. /usr/bin/ssh probably uses the current $TERM on the originating system
09:40<dima_>ooops...sorry...I was uses by default x-terminal-emulator
09:41<dima_>I set it up, and spawn a terminal, and it's my good old friend xterm
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09:41<dima_>in archlinux it was using environment variables ....
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09:41<el>k hable alguien k no me va el puto tuenti xd
09:41<dima_>there I set up that variable in .bashrc
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09:43<el>Wolaaaa :3
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09:57<wols>dima_: if it did use $TERM, then archlinux sounds very broken :)
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10:19<omry>anyone know of a tool to visualize the boot order as a graph?
10:19<omry>(dependency boot)
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10:21<daemonkeeper>bootchart used to do. No clue if it still works for distributions from this decade.
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10:22<omry>in this bootchart screenshot I don't see that its graphing the boot order:
10:22<omry>I mean a DAG
10:23<omry>think of each group of boot with the same dependency as a node, and the edges are the dependencies
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10:23<sohmestra>So...I have debian installed on a hp proliant dl320, with smartarray p410 controller. Can I be certain of the order in which it attempts to boot from the drives?
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10:25<sohmestra>In other words..if I install grub on /dev/cciss/c0d0, will that do the trick?
10:27<sohmestra>I've upgraded from lenny to squeeze...which wants to use grup-pc.
10:27<sohmestra>and because I'm an idiot, I may have managed to hose the existing grub setup
10:27<sohmestra>however, the machine is currently running.
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10:28<sohmestra>I don't want to reboot without some amount of confidence that I can do so successfully
10:28<omry>sohmestra, usually you can control boot order in the bios
10:28<sohmestra>oh, and I don't have physical access to the machine.
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10:28<sohmestra>it's in a datacenter hundreds of miles away...
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10:30<omry>no console access?
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10:32<sohmestra>omry: I may be able to request a kvm for a limited amount of time
10:33<omry>so request it preemptively and reboot
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10:40<jgay>Can someone direct me to the right channel for questions relating to copyright licenses on Debian packages ... not the licenses of the software that is packaged, but of the descriptions and information within the packages themselves.
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10:41<lindi->jgay: just ask here first :)
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10:43<jgay>OK, I'm basically looking for any information that will help me understand what the license is (if any) on Debian packages; also, the license on deb-tags and the descriptiosn of the tags.
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10:44<kaibaman>thats a good site
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10:45<kaibaman>what is irc?
10:45<kaibaman>i have installed now so what is it?
10:45<waqs>hi all i seem to be having problems with proftpd, randomly certain files that i'm uploading are freezing
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10:45<waqs>they are valid zip files
10:45<waqs>and it seems to be file specific
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10:46<waqs>i've verified that the file doesn't exists on the server
10:46<waqs>and turned off all firewalls
10:46<waqs>the client is winxp + ncftpput
10:46<waqs>has anyone come across this issue before
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10:48<skessa>wols can i install flash on debian ?
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10:49<wols>!tell skessa about adobe flash
10:49<anbe>jgay, there is a copyright file in each debian package (debian/copyright in source packages, /usr/share/doc/<package>/copyright in binary packages) that has details about the license of both the upstream source and the debian packaging
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10:53<jgay>anbe, thanks -- sorry to be a bother, but could you give me an example package to look at where there is an obvious destinction between the package descriptions copyrigth and the copyright of the software/documentation that is being packaged
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10:55<jgay>all i can find so far is default copyright on the package descriptions and then a licensing statement that applies to the software itself
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11:07<anbe>jgay, the copyright files are also available via, e.g. for a rather complex one in the upcoming DEP5 format
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11:12<jgay>anbe, that appears to be the copyright notices on the software contained in the package. That is not what I'm looking for. I am looking for the copyright notice on the package description itself. That is, what is the copyright of the actual text produced when I run apt-cache show iceweasel
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11:14<babilen>jgay: Should be explicitly noted in the copyright file and is typically the same (or more permissive) license than the packaged software.
11:14<Erbureth>jgay: ianal, but i think the relevant part is debian/copyright for Files: debian/*
11:14<anbe>jgay, there is a paragraph starting with Files: debian/*
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11:21<jgay>anbe, babilen, Erbureth, thanks for your help; so far all I've found are a lack of copyright notice, therefore it would default to standard copyright. But, I'm guessing that there is probably something else ... maybe it is that the terms at <> applies to the package descriptions/tags.
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11:21<jgay>err, I meant <>
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11:24<anbe>jgay, the tags are maintained separately from the packages, I don't know about their copyright. If a package is not clear about the packaging copyright, check a) the latest version (sid or experimental) and if still not cleaned up, ask the maintainer
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11:27<jgay>anbe, thanks, I will look into it further. My interest is in reusing *all* debian package descriptions; similar to how apt-cache show collates and prints package descriptions; so I was hoping there would be a simpler alternative to checking with each package maintainer
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11:28<catsup>is there any way to inspect the rlimit (as in getrlimit) of a running process like through /proc ?
11:29<cthuluh>look in /proc/$pid. it should be obvious
11:29<catsup>lol, /proc/pid/limits =D
11:30<catsup>actually i looked but i guess i skipped over that line
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11:33<catsup>um ok, how does this process have higher RSS than its ulimit? :/
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11:34<catsup>for pid in 2421; do ps h -o rss,command $pid; grep resident /proc/$pid/limits; done
11:34<anbe>jgay, the debian-legal@ mailing list may be someone to ask these questions
11:34<catsup>55140 /usr/sbin/tor --RunAsDaemon 0 --SocksListenAddress --SocksPort 9051 -f ./torrc
11:34<catsup>Max resident set 30000000 30000000 bytes
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11:35<catsup>55,140k > 30,000,000 bytes ... wtf??
11:36<jgay>anbe, thanks, that seems like a logical next step. Again, thanks for your time and help.
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12:12<dima_>hi again....I'm in troubles again...
12:12<dima_>how to make slim my default login manager
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12:13<dima_>I changed that file in X11, and I put there /usr/bin/slim
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12:13<dima_>but It doesnt work
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12:15<valdyn>dima_: /etc/X11/default-display-manager
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12:15<dima_>yeah, allright, i've changed that to /usr/bin/slim
12:15<dima_>doesn't help...
12:15<valdyn>dima_: what does it do then?
12:16<dima_>dmesg reports that slim isn't my default login manager, and it wouldn't start itt
12:16<valdyn>dima_: im pretty sure that dmesg only reports kernel messages as it shows the kernel ring buffer
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12:16<dima_>maybe I need to edit somenthing in rc.d folders
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12:17<valdyn>dima_: so im also sure that it cannot tell you about a login manager's error
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12:17<valdyn>dima_: no
12:17<dima_>anyway, it says that just before showing me the login
12:17<valdyn>dima_: run "/etc/init.d/slim start" and tell us what happens
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12:20<dima_>it says Not starting X display manager (slim ) ; is not the default display manager
12:20<valdyn>dima_: now cut and paste the contents of /etc/X11/default-display-manager
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12:22<jhutchins_lt>Is it possible another dm is running?
12:22<dima_>I wrote that instead of /usr/sbin/gdm3
12:23<dima_>absolutely not
12:23<valdyn>dima_: that doesnt make sense at all prom my pov
12:23<dima_>I would see that
12:23<valdyn>dima_: "dpkg-reconfigure slim"
12:23<dima_>in fact I disabled gdm3
12:23<dima_>and those are my only 2 dm's
12:25<dima_>well, thanks man...that worked...but...
12:25<dima_>how to do this manually?
12:25<dima_>what does it do?
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12:26<dima_>I want to get to know how it works...
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12:28<wols>dima_: did you edit the /etc/alternatives/ file directly? you shouldn't do that
12:28<wols>!tell dima_ about alternatives
12:29<wols>and to see what the dpkg-reconfigure did, look at the file in /var/lib/dpkg/info/slim*
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12:36<dima_>no, I didn't edit that file
12:36<dima_>and thanks for the tip
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12:44<__Alex_>How can i get Direct Rendering with Open Radeon [NON-FGLRX] drivers?
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12:45<__Alex_>It may sound like a primitive question to you, because i found no answer on Google.
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12:45<wols>you just install it. it works automatically out of the box. what videocard do you have that it doesn't work?
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12:46<__Alex_>I have Radeon HD 3250
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12:46<__Alex_>And is it Ported to kFreeBSD?
12:46<__Alex_>(The open source drivers)
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12:48<wols>there is not 3250 that I know of, are you really sure?
12:48<wols>it should be in kFreeBSD too since X is userland, and only the kernel is BSD there
12:49<wols>for radeons you might need to install the non-free firmware for them to work. apart from that: look at your Xorg.0.log why it doesn't work
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12:53<chealer>__Alex_: which Debian suite do you use?
12:56<__Alex_>What's that?
12:57<wols>__Alex_: which debian veraion he means
12:57<__Alex_>Squeeze kFreeBSD?
12:57<wols>cat /etc/debian_version and you see
12:57<wols>__Alex_: can you pastebin your Xorg.0.log?
12:57<__Alex_>It works, but OpenGL doesn't.
12:58<wols>and glxinfo | head -n 20 maybe
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12:59<Erbureth>__Alex_: Squeeze has somewhat outdated Mesa
12:59<Erbureth>(at least concerning r600 chipsets)
13:00<chealer>__Alex_: squeeze is what I was asking for. but the fact that you use kFreeBSD is quite important too...
13:01<chealer>__Alex_: are you aware that Debian kFreeBSD is a "technological preview"?
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13:01<__Alex_>I guess i'll have to stich With FreeBSD.
13:03<chealer>__Alex_: I recommend you always specific you're using kFreeBSD for questions of the kind. I would ask #debian-kbsd
13:05<chealer>__Alex_: there are 2 drivers, an X.Org video driver and a Linux driver.
13:06<__Alex_>So i guess there is no kFreeBSD Driver
13:06<chealer>__Alex_: the X driver is OS-independant, the Linux driver is clearly Linux-specific.
13:06<__Alex_>Never mind.
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13:08<__Alex_>You may be asking, Why do i use kFreeBSD? Because my sound card Doesn't work in Alsa. (It works, but it's buggy as hell, often crashes the whole system), ans OSS is a pain in the ass to install on Linux
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13:11<chealer>__Alex_: #radeon may also know better about kFreeBSD
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13:15<chealer>__Alex_: so you need 3 things: a newer Mesa, firmware and to make sure your kernel supports it.
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13:17<treitter>has anyone seen segfaults like this? (libdbus-1-3 1.5.6-1, libdbus-glib-1-2 0.94-4, gnome-settings-daemon 3.0.2-1):
13:17<treitter>[70153.981632] gnome-settings-[25673]: segfault at 7f9c8f1504f0 ip 00007f9c8f1504f0 sp 00007fff44bb5a18 error 14 in (deleted)[7f9c8f393000+43000]
13:17<treitter>[70178.793072] gnome-settings-[27218]: segfault at 7f22acbae4f0 ip 00007f22acbae4f0 sp 00007fffa05cc968 error 14 in[7f22acdf1000+43000]
13:17<treitter>(it happened both before and after upgrading libdbus)
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13:17<valdyn>!tell treitter -about ask
13:18<valdyn>!tell treitter -about paste
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13:18<jhutchins_lt>,versions libdbus
13:18<judd>Sorry, no package named 'libdbus' was found in i386.
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13:18<jhutchins_lt>,versions libdbus-1-3
13:18<judd>Package libdbus-1-3 on i386 -- lenny: 1.2.1-5+lenny1; lenny-proposed-updates: 1.2.1-5+lenny2; lenny-security: 1.2.1-5+lenny2; squeeze: 1.2.24-4+squeeze1; sid: 1.4.14-1; wheezy: 1.4.14-1; experimental: 1.5.6-1
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13:19<treitter>valdyn: that messaging ironically triggered the segfault and made gnome-shell explode :-/
13:20<valdyn>treitter: ironic indeed
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13:20<treitter>anyway, if you want it in a single line, I seem to be hitting this bug (which was closed, but I can't figure out why):
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13:21<valdyn>treitter: a segfault like this only informs you or us that you need a stack trace to debug this, other than that its useless
13:22<treitter>wait, sorry, not that specific bug
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13:24<treitter>sorry, it's this bug:
13:25<treitter>but I guess it's not really solved
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13:27<ompaul>unstable it is, unstable it shall remain - try asking in #debian-next they have more ideas about SID than others
13:28<chealer>__Alex_: sorry, you probably don't need a newer Mesa
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13:29<__Alex_>How do i install a Mesa?
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13:32<chealer>__Alex_: in your case, libgl1-mesa-dri
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13:49<kml>hi, would like to know what changes between java untified el 2.1 and 2.2. where can i find the change log? will servlet program build using el 2.1 backward compatible with el 2.2?
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13:49<valdyn>kml: wrong channel
13:49<kml>oops, wrong channel.
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14:00<cajac_>Somebody deleted my default locale while I was installing scim (for chinese text input). I ran dpkg-reconfigure locales and rebooted. Unfortunately reconfigure didn't fix the gnome panel locale amongst others. What do I do?
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14:01<cajac_>locale -a shows there is nog LC_TYPE, LC_MESSAGES and LC_COLLATE for the default locale
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14:03*weasel just installs locales-all
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14:08<__Alex_>What is the Cupport Chatroom for FreeBSD?
14:09<babilen>__Alex_: #freebsd on freenode (or google yourself/use alis)
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14:10<__Alex_>Cannot join to channel #freebsd (You must be invited)
14:10<__Alex_>It'S not a support chanel
14:11<babilen>__Alex_: You probably need to be registered on freenode (/msg nickserv help register) -- but this is hardly a Debian related problem.
14:11<__Alex_>Ok, sorry :)
14:11<chealer>__Alex_: The FreeBSD distribution's support channel is #freebsd on freenode. Debian kFreeBSD's channel is #debian-kbsd.
14:12<cajac_>thanks weasel, that solved my problem (after a reboot), 謝謝
14:12<babilen>__Alex_: Erm, no -- you can join the channel on freenode without being registered. I guess that you tried to join on a different network (such as this one (i.e. oftc))
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14:13<__Alex_>I loged in, and it worked :)
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15:12<Malcolm>does anyone have sound working with ESS AudioDrive ES1869?
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15:12<dpkg>Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
15:12<wols>Malcolm: yes, solo1 works with alsa
15:12<Malcolm>ok cool
15:12<Black_Prince>Malcolm, mine works too
15:13<Black_Prince>and it has cool effects .. tanananannanan
15:13*Black_Prince keeps quiet from now on
15:13<Malcolm>my card is recognized and modules are loaded and channels are unmuted
15:13<wols>!alsa checklist
15:13<dpkg>1) add yourself to the 'audio' group (log out and log in again) 2) use alsamixer to unmute channels and raise levels (also try muting some channels & toggle jack sense if available) 3) arts or esound stopped? 4) speakers on? 5) does "aplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Noise.wav" work for root? 6) modprobe snd-pcm-oss 7) squeeze: purge any installed <oss4> packages to remove ALSA blacklist. See also <list alsa users>, <alsa firmware>.
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15:14<Malcolm>k thanks
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15:14<Black_Prince>Malcolm, you did not say ... do you have two audio cards by any case? iirc ESS is pci card ...
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15:14<Malcolm>i think mines isa
15:14<Malcolm>and no not 2 cards
15:14<wols>Malcolm: like a ac97 or hda onboard?
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15:15<wols>mine, long ago, was a PCI card
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15:15<Malcolm>its intedgrated
15:15<Malcolm>but doesnt show in lspci
15:15<Black_Prince>Well, pci card should disable onboard audio ...
15:15<wols>isa can be and often is icky. manually setting irqs and io ranges :(
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15:16<Malcolm>i know
15:16<wols>Malcolm: laptop or desktop?
15:16<wols>tried lsusb?
15:16<Malcolm>pretty sure its isa
15:16<wols>and if it doesn't show up, what does the kernel say when you modprobe the driver?
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15:16<wols>check with dmesg
15:16<Malcolm>no errors module loads fine
15:18<Malcolm>yes there's some errors
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15:23<Saeed>good night
15:24-!-mode/#debian [+l 526] by debhelper
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15:24<Saeed> it's my first experiment in IRC
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15:25<Saeed>am i wrong!?
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15:25<retrospectacus>Saeed: well you're in the debian support channel. You are not allowed to chat here, but you can join #debian-offtopic or #moocows for that.
15:25<Saeed>کن یو سی دیس تکست
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15:25<retrospectacus>Saeed: English only here.
15:26<Saeed>ok, i'm so sorry
15:26<Saeed>pardon me
15:27<Saeed>thank you, and excuse me again
15:27<retrospectacus>if you have a problem with Debian, please just ask. If not, please be silent. You may chat in those other channels I mentioned.
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15:28<Saeed>my question is about an adhoc
15:28<random123>can I get help with deadbeef audio player here?
15:29<Saeed>may i ask it?
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15:29<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
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15:32<Saeed>i create an adhoc and try to share internet on it with a Debian OS; but a Windows Os can not connect it
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15:36<ballison>i have 3 servers all with the same /etc/resolv.conf. On two of them "host" works. One the third it fails with " A record not found, server failure". how do i debug this?
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15:39<wols>ballison: with dig maybe?
15:39<ballison>dig and nslookup are not installed. all i have is "host"
15:40<wols>then install it
15:40<Aketzu>can ping resolv names?
15:40<Aketzu>does it say that response immediately or does it take a long time?
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15:42<ballison>Aketzu: yes ping can resolve the IP.
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15:42<Aketzu>on all machines?
15:42<ballison>I found that "nameserver" was first in the /etc/resolv.conf. I moved that to the bottom and host started working again.
15:42<Aketzu>yeah... simple :)
15:42<ballison>Aketzu: all servers resolve the hostname with ping.
15:42<Aketzu>that third probably doesn't have bind installed
15:43<ballison>Aketzu: All servers are identical in setup. All servers have "nameserver" first in the /etc/resolv.conf. Yet only one can't use host to resolve the hostname.. why?
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15:43<Aketzu>that tries resolving that domain on localhost
15:44<Aketzu>(and doesn't use /etc/resolv.conf)
15:44<ballison>Aketzu: all servers have bind9 installed
15:44<Aketzu>and configured properly?
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15:44<Aketzu>(and running of course)
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15:47<ballison>named is running - yes
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15:55<ballison>i wonder if i should move to last in the /etc/resolv.conf for all of 3 servers just to be consistant.
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15:59<retrospectacus>bind servers should have *only* in that file iirc
16:01<retrospectacus>that's what I'm seeing on mine
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16:20<ballison>retro: From what i've read bind server wants FIRST in the /etc/resolv.conf
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16:22<lindi->my bind9 server does not have in resolv.conf and works just fine
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16:24<retrospectacus>well mine have only and also work fine. Pretty sure the guys in #bind (?) told me under no circumstance should *anything* else be in there
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16:25<ballison>the /etc/bind/named are the same on all 3
16:25<lindi->odd, resolv.conf is used by gethostbyname() when nsswitch.conf is configured to do so. I don't think bind9 uses gethostbyname
16:25<retrospectacus>that's probably where you should ask... #bind on freenode
16:25<ballison>how do i get the "ttl" on the record i'm looking up?
16:26<ballison>nsswitch is the same on all three hosts
16:27<lindi->ballison: dig and host don't use gethostbyname either btw
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16:28<lindi->ballison: "getent hosts" uses gethostbyname
16:28<ballison>lindi- this is "weird". Check out what dig returns -->
16:28<ballison>the record is commented out
16:29<ballison>lindi- And status is "SERVFAIL"
16:30<retrospectacus>means it has no answer. ANSWER : 0
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16:31<ballison>retros: but on my local desktop i did the same dig and got "ANSWER: 0" and status = "NXDOMAIN"
16:32<ballison>weird... ok. I did a /etc/init./bind9 restart and suddenly dig returns TOTALLY different results.
16:32<ballison>full DNS records now.
16:32<ballison>freaky.. maybe named just was hosed up on this box.. weird.
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16:33<ballison>but restarting the service seems to have completely cleaned it up
16:34<retrospectacus>I just saw that. NS16 was not working, then started
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16:35<retrospectacus>ballison: maybe some messages in /var/log/syslog for you
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16:38<ballison>retro: i grepped through syslog before starting. couldn't find any logs for "named/bind" in there. :/
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16:48<retrospectacus>ballison: huh. I have lots in there labelled "named"
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17:00<aussa>I'm trying to install debian from a usb stick, I tried this: and non of the options worked, is it the netinst or the business version? any suggestions?
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17:02<sney>aussa: the netinst is actually a hybrid image, which means it can be written directly to the usb stick with no preparation needed
17:02<sney>you can use under windows or dd/cat in anything else
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17:04<aussa>sney, can I copy the netinst .iso directly to the usb?
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17:05<sney>aussa: you need to write it to the usb, using one of the methods I just told you
17:05<aussa>sney, without the cat command?
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17:06<chealer>aussa: for 4.3.2? any
17:06<chealer>aussa: well...
17:06<chealer>!tell aussa about doesn't work
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17:08<aussa>sney, this is what I did: cat debian- > /dev/sdb1
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17:08<aussa>and sync
17:08<sney>it should be /dev/sdb, you use the whole device not a partition
17:08<sney>close though
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17:09<aussa>sney, could it be the usb format?
17:09<aussa>sney, when I boot from the usb all I get is a flashing white line
17:09<sney>I'm not going to help you if you only read half of what I write
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17:24<brlancer>I've got pm-utils working w/ suspend & hibernate - I want xscreensaver to lock my session but sleep.d/ scripts run as root (and the scripts I've seen to detect the X user and run as that seems flakey) - is there a more direct solution?
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17:48<splic>Hello, what is the preferred way of maintaining iptables between reboots? My script in /etc/network/if-up.d/ doesn't seem to be populating iptables
17:48<melmothX_> /quit #.#
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17:50<retrospectacus>splic: I put my iptables script in root's crontab with @reboot
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17:51<retrospectacus>splic: not sure if that is "preferred" ... maybe in /etc/rc.local would be better?
17:51<splic>wouldn't you want it invoked whenever the interface is brought up?
17:52<splic>when does rc.local fire?
17:52<Black_Prince>when switching from rcS to rcx
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17:53<retrospectacus>maybe a good point about the interface, I hadn't thought of that...
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17:53<splic>I might just put it in there and see if it works
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17:57<aussa>can I connect to a WPA2 network during debian installation?
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18:14<lindi->brlancer: gnome-screensaver at least locks the screen on suspend/hibernate
18:15<lindi->brlancer: xscreensaver probably requires you to do a lot of things yourself
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18:16<Rainbowtron>I'm a little confused about how to use xmess. Can somebody help?
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18:19<retrospectacus>!tell Rainbowtron about ask
18:19<brlancer>lindi-: not going to use gnome :) - I did write a script to go off the sudo user (since that's how I'll call pm-utils) and that's working well
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18:20<Rainbowtron>retrospectacus: I don't know the first thing about it. there's nothing specific to ask.
18:20<lindi->brlancer: I hope you realize that it is a custom solution and won't help others :/
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18:20<retrospectacus>Rainbowtron: I've never heard of it. Why are you asking then?
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18:20<lindi->brlancer: do you also use sudo to run pm-suspend?
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18:21<Rainbowtron>retrospectacus: all I know is that it supposedly plays various emulator ROMs that I have, and the man page is very vague.
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18:22<brlancer>lindi-: yes and yes - I'll happily use a standard solution that doesn't include "use gnome|kde"
18:23<lindi->brlancer: I don't think other users care about desktop that much unfortunately
18:24<retrospectacus>Rainbowtron: well I googled it for you:
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18:31<lindi->brlancer: it seems the following happens in desktop (gnome): 1) user selects "Shut Down" from gnome-panel 2) gnome-panel asks session manager (gnome-session) to do shutdown 3) gnome-session shows a dialog that offers shutdown/suspend/hibernate/reboot/logout/switchuser
18:31<Black_Prince>And gnome session talks to consolekit ... consolekit calls shutdown ... bleh
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18:34<lindi->Black_Prince: I'm not there yet
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18:40<lindi->so yes, 4) gnome-session does something as simple as "gnome-screensaver-command --lock"
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18:42<lindi->and 5) gnome-session asks upowerd to actually do the hibernate
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18:44<lindi->that does a lot of error checking it seems, it even checks if swap is encrypted and will complain if you try to hibernate to unencrypted swap while your / is encrypted :)
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18:45<lindi->and 6) upowerd asks policykit if the user is allowed to execute the action
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18:46<lindi->7) finally it executes the backend specific hibernate command. on kfreebsd this is /usr/sbin/acpiconf -s 4 and on linux it is /usr/sbin/pm-hibernate
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18:47<lindi->Black_Prince: there :-) so using pm-suspend manually directly actually only works on linux. gnome-panel/gnome-session/gnome-screensaver/upowerd/policykit solution at least sort of tries to be portable(TM) :P
18:48<lindi->this way you can for example give normal users the privilege to shutdown their desktop machine but only if nobody is logged in over ssh
18:49<lindi->you can't really easily do that with sudoers
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19:28<dropdead>trying to install the latest wheezy-amd64 on a machine, gets choked up after the partition/format and when it tries to install grub
19:28<dropdead>grub-pc package failed to install into target
19:28<cthuluh>perhaps should you ask on #debian-next
19:29<cthuluh>or even better, a channel dedicated to the debian installer
19:29<dropdead>k great thanks
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19:33<anbe>dropdead, try the "install grub" option again, I experienced this too, and sometimes it was working the second time
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19:33<dropdead>hmm strange
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19:33<dropdead>yea ive tried it like 10 times, rebooted, nada
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19:35<dropdead>hmm, never had this problem before with debian, maybe ill just go back to 32 bit version which i would of never burnt this disk
19:35<nadir>did you try advanced -> rescue from the install CD too?
19:36<nadir>to install grub, i mean
19:36<nadir>after the installation itself
19:36<dropdead>i can get into a shell
19:36<dropdead>but im not really sure how i would install grub from the installation disk onto the partition
19:37<nadir>there is a choice to install grub, but right now i am not sure where exactly
19:37<dropdead>dpkg and apt-get aren't even part of the rescue shell, and this machine doesnt have an internet connection, i guess ill keep the 32 bit version
19:37<dpkg>dropdead: You are person #1 to send an unparseable request
19:37<dropdead>yea i tried that choice install grub like 10 times and rebooted, it says the message
19:38<dropdead>it appears to be a bug that hasnt been addressed by the debian install team
19:38<dropdead>what sort of performance difference is between the amd64 kernel and the 32 bit version? is it really all that much?
19:38<retrospectacus>the testing installer is not recommended for public use. It's for *testing* the installer. You should install stable and then upgrade
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19:40<dropdead>can i install use my old 32 bit version of debian and then upgrade into a 64 bit kernel?
19:41<retrospectacus>you will find that you probably can but that is not recommended
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19:42<retrospectacus>you'll end up with a 64-bit kernel and 32-bit system which works but for reasons I can't remember, is not preferred
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19:43<nadir>there are also the images with the sid-installer:
19:43<dropdead>well wish i would of known not to using the test install before i used my last cd, ive got a usb drive with the iso on it, thats not going to do me any good
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19:44<dropdead>ill just go back to the 32 bit version, i doubt the performance increase is all that noticeable with 64
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19:44<sesshomaru>32 is better than 64 version?
19:45<dropdead>i wouldnt say better
19:45<retrospectacus>no 32-bit is fine, unless you need a single program to be able to use more than 3G of ram
19:45<dropdead>i just doubt its going to be very noticeable between the two
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19:45<dropdead>i dont even have that much ram in this machine, so i think 32 will be ok
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19:46<sesshomaru>it,s noticeable in the 2 versions of Debian or irc.?/
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19:46<dropdead>nah i doubt it
19:47<dropdead>i think the only place you'll see any sort of improvement is like retrospectacus said, in very large files with larger amounts of RAM
19:47<sesshomaru>are their any more newer versions?
19:47<dropdead>even then the jump from 32 bit to 64 bit architecture didnt really bring all that much performance improvement, it might be slightly better but i think its neglible
19:48<sesshomaru>any more versions besides 64 and 32?
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19:49<dpkg>from memory, arch is a hardware architecture (i386, amd64, armel, mips, mipsel, sparc, powerpc, alpha, hppa, s390 && ia64). Also a source control revision system (GNU arch). Arch (and its twin brother ArX) resides at, or, or #arch Under lenny, /bin/arch has disappeared, use "uname -m" instead, or <architecture>, or <arch linux>.
19:49-!-eeemsi__ [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
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19:50<sesshomaru>are their newer versions of the internet?
19:50<dropdead>thats the latest
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19:51<sesshomaru> google plus?
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19:56<tensorpudding>why is there several different versions of automake packages available, but docs are only for an old version?
19:56<sesshomaru>i don,t know.
19:56<tensorpudding>oh wait, the regular package includes docs
19:57<tensorpudding>it's just 1.9 has docs in a separate package
19:57<sesshomaru>yes it is.
19:57<tensorpudding>the right environment for reading gnu docs is emacs' info reader
19:57<sesshomaru>didn't know that.
19:57*MrFrood prefers pinfo
19:58*babilen prefers not to read info at all ;)
19:58<tensorpudding>given i'm writing c++ code at the same time, it's helpful
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19:58<sesshomaru>b+ for me and sometimes a+
19:59<sesshomaru>is there anything new to install and upgrade?
20:00<babilen>sesshomaru: Install whatfor and upgrade from what?
20:01<sesshomaru>newer packages and internet systems.
20:02<sesshomaru>like ipv6 and kpe plasma desktop.
20:03<sesshomaru>and others.
20:03<babilen>!tell sesshomaru -about install kde4
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20:04<babilen>sesshomaru: Isn't that the plasma desktop version?
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20:04<sesshomaru>yes i think it is.
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20:05<sesshomaru>what about ipv6?
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20:05<babilen>sesshomaru: What about it? What do you want to use it for?
20:05<sesshomaru>the newest and latest internet system?
20:06<babilen>sesshomaru: I would recommend to read the Wikipedia article on ipv6 -- It is most likely not something you want to worry about right now.
20:07<sesshomaru>isn,t there a newer version of Wikipedia?
20:07<babilen>sesshomaru: Do you actually have a real and Debian related question we can help you with?
20:08<sesshomaru>how does
20:09<sesshomaru>Debian work?
20:09<babilen>sesshomaru: What aspect of Debian are you asking about?
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20:10<dpkg>Debian stable does not always include all the software people need or want so there is much official, semi-official, and non-official software available for stable. See . Ask me about <security>, <installer firmware>, <backports>, <squeeze-updates>, <multimedia>, <non-free>, <contrib>, <emdebian>, <debian live>. See also <grounding>, <social contract>, <introduction>.
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20:11<retrospectacus>sesshomaru: talk to the robot dpkg, he will tell you a lot about a lot. Stop wasting people's time
20:12<babilen>sesshomaru: Please also buy and read + + + -- /msg dpkg grounding
20:12<babilen>sesshomaru: Please do some research on your own before asking general and unspecific questions here. Thank you!
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20:17<steinex>short question if i want to install backports-kernel on squeeze: 486 or pae? (for a relatively new i386 box (but with just 2G ram anyway..))
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20:18<babilen>pae unless relatively == 10 years old
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20:18<steinex>i'm unsure i thought i heard different voices
20:19<steinex>i definitely don't need/want pae and it's an own kernel-package for good reason anyway.
20:19<sney>pae supports 4G+ of memory on 32-bit systems, but doesn't require it. it's just the new 686 kernel.
20:19<sney>turns out having bigmem enabled doesn't really make a difference.
20:19<sney>(on sub-4GB systems that is)
20:20<sney>the 486 kernel, on the other hand, will not support things like SSE which do make a difference.
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21:17<green>hello there
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21:20<green>I guess I'll just sit here until someone else says hi
21:21<retrospectacus>green: hi! This channel is for debian support, not chatting. If you have a debian question please ask
21:21<Luminous>Hello green
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21:32<green>oh hi guys, yes.. I am here for debian support
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21:34<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
21:35<green>So, some background, I'm new to linux, still having lots of problems getting used to the gnu+linux environment, and I need some help with installing adobe flash player into either iceweasil or chromium... as the included flash plugin, whatever it is... isn't working properly, I keep getting youtube videos failing to load, giving me errors, and delays of 30-40 seconds even if it does load
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21:35<dpkg>Flash is frequently used to deliver interactivity, audio and video through a web browser. Ask me about <gnash> for a free implementation or <adobe flash> for a non-free implementation.
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21:36<jhutchins_lt>green: You get errors like that in Windows as well, flash can very much be complete crap.
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21:36<green>I tried to download the plugin from adobes website, and copy it into my usr folder, but obviously... being linux+gnu, there are permissions things going on and I could figure it out, but it's probably faster to ask here
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21:37<jhutchins_lt>Use the debian download script, installable as a regular package, and that will manage things correctly for you.
21:37<green>yeah, I know there are errors like that in the official adobe flash, but this is rediculous, 80% of the time I get one of the beforementioned errors and have to refresh the page
21:37<babilen>green: Just install the flashplugin-nonfree package -- See "/msg dpkg adobe flash" and the linked wiki page for details
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21:38<green>ok, I'll try that... see if I can get around my windowsitis
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21:44<serhyi>hi guys! is anyone of you familiar with postfix installation? I'm trying to setup the mail server and not sure if it works. I follow one tutorial and achieved the point where the guy says to check if my mail server works, and he says to tail some mysql and mail logs, so according to his tests my system works (good mail statuses, no errors, virtual folders created, some mysql activity etc). BUT when I try to send a mail to my gmail accont
21:44<serhyi>- I don't receive it. Is that OK? Here's the link of tutorial I'm using if that helps:
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21:46<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
21:46<green>sorry... was just testing that
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21:50<green>I'm sorry, but I'm just too new to linux and debian to know what I'm doing... The information about installing the flash plugin seems to be more aimed at intermediate users, rather than total beginners. Can someone give me some clearer instructions than the website offers to help me install this plugin?
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21:53<green>The instructions say to add a line to my sources.list file... I can open the file, but it's read only, how do I open the file as root so I can actually edit it?
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21:54<kop>green: You become root by, typically, typing "su" and entering the root password.
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21:55<travis_>gears 3 wooooo
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21:56<green>I know that, but how do I edit the file in question? I.e. file navigation within terminal, do I just go root, then once I'm root, type gedit etc/apt/sources.list?
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21:56<green>ok, I guess I do.
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21:57<green>wait, no I don't, I've managed to open a file that doesnt exist... *facepalm
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22:00<green>I'm sure what you are saying makes sense, but it is like teaching basic algebra to a 5 year old, sure, the topic is actually quite simple, but the 5 year old still doesn't understand
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22:04<kop>green: /etc/apt/sources.list
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22:05<kop>!tell green about introduction
22:05<kop>!tell green about overview
22:05<kop>green: You probably want to read the beginnings of the debian reference manual for basic concepts.
22:05<green>kop: I typed that, and ended up in my own user folder area... which isn't exactly what I was going for
22:05<kop>green: You left off the leading '/'.
22:06<kop>!tell green about msg the bot
22:07<green>arg, quick complaint, then I'll get onto doing that: people go on and on about linux and how you should get into it, and then they say look how easy it is, the operating system will pretty much install itself with a heap of applications already installed. (me): goes and installs a distro, (you): then tells me to go and read a heap of documentation AFTER I install, saying "oh, sorry about that, you actually need to read all of this
22:07<green> before you can really use debian".
22:07*green ends rant
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22:07<kop>green: You're doing the right thing, asking specific questions here. (Sometimes has more people.)
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22:11<kop>green: Thing is, flash is tricky and Debian is picky about not infringing on anybody's coypright and being, by default, free-as-in-freedom software. If you want something that "just works" you can use a distro like mint (which seems to violate copyright all over the place, or so I hear) or ubuntu (which is less stable than debian). On the other hand debian has, to my knowledge, more packages available than any other distro -- they're just not the software you
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22:12<green>yeah, I am all for opensource software, and even completely agree with debian's attitude towards not having ANY nonfree software installed by default, I just find it annoying, that when the included open software flatout doesn't work, it is really difficult to swap to nonfree software that may or may not work but is likely to work better.
22:12<kop>green: So, to use something non-free like flash you need to jump through a few more hoops if you choose debian. As a compensation you know that if you stick with the free stuff you're going to have something that will continue to work, be supported, and in general be hassle free. Also, what you learn is a good investment. A Unix admin from 1974 would be comfortable on a Linux box today.
22:13<green>To go into more detail: even if the opensource doesn't perform with the same speed as nonfree software, I still have a preference for opensource software, because with support, the opensource software will eventually become just as fast or even faster.
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22:13<kop>green: If you don't get the help you need here try switching to Or ask during business hours in the USA when there seem to be a lot of serious experts available.
22:15<kop>green: (I've never tried to get flash to work, aside from installing gnash and noticing that it does not work, mostly.) You could try installing the latest firefox and using html5 from utube, if utube is what you want. (I don't _want_ my web pages to sing and dance at me!)
22:15<green>but the thing is, this gnat or whatever debian is currently using for flash... is not working, so I want to try flash, and it's just been a real pain, before when this happened, I just gave up and went back to windows. I know, you will tell me that I should stick with it, but the thing is, a lot of people are like this, and by making it REALLY difficult for beginners to do basic things like install adobe flash player, it's sort of
22:15<green> like pushing people away from the good stuff that is hidden behind the initial learning curve that's more difficult than it should be.
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22:16<kop>green: You saw the <adobe flash> factoid?
22:16<green>are you talking about the adverts? because I hate those too, they are a waste of bandwidth and I really don't care about car insurance or whatever they are selling
22:16<green>nope, have not seen that factoid
22:16<kop>!adobe flash
22:16<dpkg>Adobe Flash Player is <non-free>. The easiest way to install it is with the flashplugin-nonfree <contrib> package for squeeze and upwards or lenny-backports. There is also a flashplayer-mozilla package in <dmm> (non-free section). WARNING: installing flashplugin-nonfree will NOT automatically keep the plugin updated. Read more on . See also <flash amd64>, <bdo>, <dmm>.
22:16<green>mind you, I use addblock plus
22:17<kop>green: You could always use synaptic. That's a GUI for apt and it will allow you to enable non-free.
22:17<green>yeah, I'm in synaptic, I just cant find the non-free
22:17<green>I need to add the line to my sources list
22:17<kop>green: We just find it a lot harder here to talk people through a gui than to support the command line.
22:18<kop>green: It's not another line. It's just a word at the end of an existing line.
22:18<green>yeah, a little comment about command line instructions: when telling beginners to type something in, you should probably go into more detail about the fact that they should be typing things into terminal, and also tell them how to launch said terminal
22:19<kop>green: There's a checkbox, somewhere in the synaptic gui. Somewhere having to do with 'software sources' or whatever it says.
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22:19<kop>green: It's hard to know where people need to start.
22:19<green>because I often notice people saying "type x in" and then the newbie goes ... uh, where do I type that?
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22:20<kop>green: Can't you just type "gedit" and then tell gedit what file to edit by pointing an clicking?
22:20<green>did not know that
22:20<kop>green: I don't use gedit, but there must be a File->Open menu.
22:20<green>I just tried it
22:21<green>run gedit as super user, then go open then navigate to file, file is now open as super user
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22:22<kop>green: Everybody likes their own editor. nano is the default painless editor because it always has instructions at the bottom of the screen to give you choices.
22:22<kop>green: Anyone serious will learn to use either vi or emacs. I'm an emacs fan myself but it's a matter of religion.
22:23<green>oh, emacs is a text editor? did not know that... thought it was some kind of ... something (not a mac, I didn't think it was a type of mac).
22:23<dvs>green: That's like saying Windows is a calculator
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22:24<kop>green: If you want to learn emacs you'll want the full docs, including the tuitorial. It's in the emacs23-common-non-dfsg package, which is in non-free, sadly. Then, you (after installing emacs too) type "emacs" and read the screen and take the tuitorial.
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22:27<kop>green: More importantly, learn to administer the Linux way by reading the intro and the footnotes in
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22:31<amitz>emacs is not debian, please go to the right distro channel, thank you.
22:32<green>anyway, I'll check all of this stuff out in the course of time.
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22:33<amitz>green: ignore me, it's a joke about emacs feature.
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22:33<green>But... I'm already downloading the iso file for emacs
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22:40<green>well I just went and told the package manager to upgrade everything... maybe not the best idea right now...
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22:41<green>anyway, I'm going to idle here and not general chat, if I have any more questions, I shall return
22:41<green>thanks for the information
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22:55<Lbebusiness1>I compiled my own kernel, it works for the most part. But getting nvidia to comople with it is not working
22:55<Lbebusiness1>(09:51:22 PM) Lbebusiness: compile*
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23:03<amitz>define wot working
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23:12<tomm>can somebody tell me how to edit and compile an existing java program in eclipse or geany?
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23:16<kete>Hello, I'm wondering what could prevent my computer from sleeping since it usually works. Sometimes, it doesn't.
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23:17<kete>I used to think it was a multimedia app, but don't recall closing vlc doing any good.
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23:18<green>tomm: a dedicated eclipse irc channel/network might be a better place to ask
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23:19<green>as for kete: I can't help you, but thought I would tell you the useless information anyway... I know what you mean though, sometimes my debian refuses to sleep
23:20<green>and woah... just... woah
23:20<green>me stares at the mess of what just happened to his other computer's graphics
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23:21<green>sorry about that, I was running unigine heaven on a loop because it's got a weird line problem in 3d applications... and well, it's just got worse
23:22<green>there used to be about 5 crazy lines per frame, now theres over 100
23:22<green>but that's really off topic
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23:31<kingsley_>Why would inodes change for files in /sbin, like depmod, ifconfig and modprobe?
23:31<kingsley_>I'm not aware of having done anything that would have affected them.
23:32<user001>would be it possible to avoid a defacement, just by making sure that the files webpage files are not writable to the apache process and that every other daemon running on the system is chrooted?
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23:33<user001>assumed that physically nobody attacks the local system
23:33<th>that's one way of minimizing the attack surface
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23:34<th>looks for other possibilities
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23:35<user001>so, why doesnt every one do that?
23:35<th>it's a royal pita to be always in paranoid mode
23:36<user001>it is possible to write sessions for php programs to a database
23:36<user001>so really no filesystem writes are necessary to get all comfort of web apps
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23:38<th>well, that's another way of isolating things
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23:43<user001>really paranoid ide: using chattr -i on any file in /bin /etc /usr and prior to running aptitude upgrade , a script will reset the bit on all files which are to be upgraded
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23:44<user001>i am going to implement that
23:44<user001>or is there already something like that?
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23:50<th>there is something called SELinux
23:51<user001>i have been reading the securing debian docs, but actually I didn't get that far
23:51<user001>however, I heard selinux wouldn't work well with squeeze (sb told me yesterday)
23:51<user001>in this irc channel#
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23:52<th>i see
23:53<user001>or is selinux actually quite usable with squeeze?
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23:54<th>i have never tried it
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---Logclosed Wed Sep 21 00:00:16 2011