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#debian IRC Logs for 2011-10-10

---Logopened Mon Oct 10 00:00:35 2011
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00:21<imcoocoo>Hello there.
00:21<imcoocoo>My name is Jason: i'm from Tampa, Florida. Totally blind since birth.
00:23<imcoocoo>I'm using Windows XPSP3 now, but i've a VMWare player and am looking for a Linux gui to have a look at just on the side. I don not like Ubuntu's Gnome gui.
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00:23<imcoocoo>Hey there, Tensorpudding, nice to know you.
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00:26<imcoocoo>Another friend on another server suggested i try Debian as opposed to Ubuntu, but i've never seen Debian distro before. Looking for a gui that most resembles Widnows or has a metaphor i'll be able to understand.
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00:27<imcoocoo>Even a Mac-like gui would ge something interesting, i did see a Mac OSX SnowLeopard at a friend's house one time; thought it was neat with the built-in VoiceOver announcing only where i was (and nothing else unless i asked it to).
00:29<imcoocoo>I'm not big on the command line, as some of you will probably say CLI is better for me; i need to feel at home with my sighted counterparts.
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00:30<derpburger>Hi there peeps. Got debian on a computer that I don't update or connect to the internet and use it for learning purposes. Tried adding my username and "ALL=(ALL) ALL" and uncommenting "%sudo ALL=NOPASSWD: ALL" but it still asks me for passwords. What am I doing wrong? (I understand the dangers of this, it's not for a system that matters in any way)
00:31<derpburger>to the sudoers file ***
00:31<imcoocoo>Linux is kinda neat to have a look at; considering it's totally open-source, huge for someone like me that knows when something could be improved on; no more talking to Bill gates about digitally signed crud...
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00:32<cybersphinx>derpburger: Add your user to the sudo group.
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00:33<imcoocoo>I think Linux (as a security measure) requires all accounts (even limited or normal user types) to have a password...
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00:33<imcoocoo>When i used the Gnome desktop, Orca was the screen reader i used.
00:34<derpburger>I got around it by doing "usermod [myusername] -ou0" but I'm just confused why the method I posted above didn't work.
00:34<imcoocoo>Does Debian also have a screen reader built in, too?
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00:35<wompa>imcoocoo, yes, Debian also uses Orca.
00:35<mosno>what is the policy of grave bugs in stable? is there something that says these should be fixed in the next point release?
00:35<imcoocoo>I should've said: do the Debian gui's also have a screen reader built in as well?
00:36<weedeater64>There is a program called dictator out there, not a debian package.
00:36<imcoocoo>cool beans, wompa.
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00:37<imcoocoo>not looking for voice recognition, just text-to-speech; i'll be using a keyboard full-time; no mouse.
00:37<mosno>eg. means that most times you try and burn mp3s to CD it fails
00:37<mosno>using the default desktop's default burn app
00:37<imcoocoo>Yes, that's right, just like in Windows...
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00:38<kop>mosno: Something like that. See the debian policy manual. But your definition of grave may not be the same as that of the Debian developers.
00:38<weedeater64>Dictator doesn't do speech, just text , in defined chunk sizes.
00:39<mosno>kop: i mean that the bug report is filed as "grave" (not by me)
00:39<imcoocoo>Small question: in debian's gui, how do i associate sounds to events? This tells me what the gui is doing at that moment; the additional feedback keeps me well-informed, just like in Windows.
00:39<weedeater64>There are some Debian packages that do text to speech.
00:40<kop>mosno: You'd have to read the policy manual. It's probably only security and debian-policy violations that are fixed in stable.
00:40<kop>!tell mosno about stable
00:40<kop>!tell mosno about overview
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00:47<mosno>kop: policy manual doesn't seem to discuss it. looking at the other info now
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01:24<javier_>how do i switch from squeeze to sid? without installing aptosid.
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01:30<amitz>change /etc/apt/sources.list to use sid
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01:31<sney>!sid faq
01:31<dpkg> ; it doesn't hurt to read the FAQ, even if you are using <testing>. See also and <sid upgrade test>.
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01:33<javier_>working on it
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01:36<yoshi>are there actually live images using gnome that can fit on a cd?
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01:37<yoshi>cause i am trying to find one and i havent had any luck
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01:42<yoshi>dvs: yeah check the size debian-live-6.0.2-i386-gnome-desktop.iso 27-Aug-2011 17:13 1.1G 1.1g wont fit on a cd yopu have to go down to lxde to find one that might
01:42<yoshi>i have no idea about the lxde environment
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01:47<runtu>network manager
01:47<runtu>sudo apt-get install network manager
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01:48<yoshi>this isnt a terminal window
01:49<javier_>lol, that must happen a lot
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01:51<elogin>How do you disable X server to install Nvidia Drivers?
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01:52<elogin>I mite be wrong
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02:18<dpkg> . Ask me about <nouveau> (no 3D support in Debian packages), <nvidia dkms> or <nvidia m-a>. For GPUs made before 2004, see <nvidia dkms-173xx> and <nvidia dkms-96xx> for legacy drivers. See <nvidia lenny> for oldstable. Installing directly from (i.e. with <nvidia-installer>) is _not_ supported in #debian, please go to #nvidia on
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02:26<bhansali>any one there
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02:28<bhansali>hi urban
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02:28<bhansali>r u there
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02:31<dpkg>VATTENE VIA!
02:31<Raf97>vattene tu
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04:00<EmleyMoor>Is there anything that will give me a visually intuitive way to edit html without hosing the layout?
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04:04<amitz>EmleyMoor: existing html? little chance.
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04:05<amitz>oh, layout is more important than the html? hmm, no idea. dreamweaver, at leas previous versions were good.
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04:06*EmleyMoor has just tried using vi to do what he intends and will see if it works
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04:08<EmleyMoor>amitz: It's a fax cover page for YajHFC
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04:09<EmleyMoor>Hmmm... looks like I did it OK
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05:26<Lantizia>Hey what'd be a good way to check if i386/amd64 is running on any debian-based os?
05:26<Lantizia>as in - the distro arch chosen - not what the cpu is capable of
05:26<Lantizia>(sorry if you answered this yesterday - didn't see it and scrollback doesn't go that far back)
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05:27<berto>Lantizia: uname -m ?
05:27<babilen>Lantizia: If you are asking about a way to determine if a certain processor supports amd64 you can use "grep -w lm /proc/cpuinfo"
05:28<Lantizia>babilen, no i stated that wasn't what I was after
05:28<babilen>Lantizia: If you want to determine which architecture is used on a particular already installed host use "dpkg --print-architecture"
05:28<Lantizia>berto, other than x86_64 what are the possible values for x86? just i486/586/686 ?
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05:28<Lantizia>babilen, ah! that is perfect :P
05:28<berto>Lantizia: I guess so, ix86
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05:28<berto>but babilen's solution looks better
05:28<babilen>Lantizia: It might be a bit complicated as you can use an amd64 kernel on i386, so you have to check the kernel architecture as well.
05:29<Lantizia>babilen, but dpkg --print-architecture will always return what the system was originally installed to be?
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05:29<Lantizia>i.e. 32 bit disc or 64 bit disc
05:29<Lantizia>cool - thanks :)
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05:30<Lantizia>and I presume dpkg will say i386 even if it's i586/486/686
05:30<berto>babilen: does the amd64 kernel work out of the box? I remember having tried it and finding problems with ioctls or something
05:30<berto>(amd64 kernel on an i386 system, I mean)
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05:31<berto>Lantizia: it does say i386 in my machine
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07:06<ompaul>profound :)
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07:20<Spods>i was wondering if anyone knew the purpose of /etc/ssl/cert/ssl-default-snakeoil.pem and /etc/ssl/private/ssl-default-snakeoil.pem
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07:20<Spods>obviously its a keypair set up by debian on installation, but should one use it to sign other keys as oppossed to generating a new keypair for signing?
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07:26<mitr>Any xinput gurus?
07:27<babilen>mitr: Just ask -- It might be the case that not only the person who developed xinput can help you ;)
07:27<mitr>Well I am using xinput to control the speed of a misbehaving MS mouse
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07:27<mitr>However, everytime I remove it and plug it in again (KVM between 2 pcs) it loses the settings
07:28<mitr>I have to set them again to resolve the issue
07:28<mitr>I guess it is list the xinput --list devices are reinitialised or something
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07:37<mitr>shell script could do it by checking the settings every second and applying if they are not set
07:37<mitr>but that is messy
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07:43<babilen>Hmm, I am not entirely sure but I can think of a couple of ways to deal with that problem. The best (intuitively) would be if you create a device specific configuration file in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ (match on vendor/type) which configures the device in the way you want. I am not entirely sure how that behaves though, but it is worth a try. Another possibility would be to write a script and execute it via an appropriate udev rule whenever the ...
07:43<babilen>... mouse is plugged in.
07:43<babilen>mitr: Let me see if I can dig up some sensible information on the former approach.
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07:45<mitr>xorg.conf.d is the right way to go about it
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07:45<mitr>but I need to find out what option maps to the property I am setting with xinput
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07:49<mitr>I think it is ConstantDeceleration
07:50<mitr>How do I find the identifier of my mouse?
07:50<mitr>There is no xorg.conf on this machine, it is automagically created
07:50<babilen>mitr: That should be documented in the manpage of the respective driver. (e.g. "man synaptics" for touchpads) Please also take a look at "man xorg.conf" -- Which particular xinput setting are you after?
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07:50<babilen>!empty xorg.conf
07:50<dpkg>Starting from Lenny, /etc/X11/xorg.conf is often basically empty, as X auto-detects your hardware and starts the X server accordingly, nothing to worry about. Ask me about <xorg config> and <xrandr> for ways to configure Xorg. See also <xorg config squeeze>, <xorg.conf.d>, <xorg hal>, <xorg config lenny>.
07:50<dpkg>xorg can use files ending in the suffix .conf in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d for additional configuration. It is preferred to use an <empty xorg.conf> and create files (e.g. 20-nvidia.conf, 20-radeon.conf, 20-wacom.conf) there in order to configure a single device. You might have to create the directory yourself (mkdir /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d). See also "man 5 xorg.conf".
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07:52<mitr>This is just a usb based wireless mouse
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07:54<babilen>mitr: I guess it is just 'Option "ConstantDeceleration" "42"' or so ... (cf. -- The trick is to match the right device. Read "man xorg.conf" (and in particular the Match* entries)
07:55<babilen>mitr: #xorg on might also come in handy
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07:56<babilen>mitr: I'm afk now, I hope you manage to get it working soon. May you have a pleasant day :)
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08:02<Hein>Hi All
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08:03<Hein>does anyone know where I can download the latest version of openssl for debian lenny?
08:04<Hein>when i do an apt-get update, and then apt-get update openssl, it shows that nothing is upgraded
08:04<Hein>but im running 0.9.8g and im sure there is an 0.9.8p out already
08:05<cschutijser>If you really want a newer version of openssl you could consider to use the version from lenny-backports. But only use it if you really need it
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08:06<cschutijser>Very important security updates are backported to the version in Lenny so if you want to upgrade because of that I don't think you need to
08:07<Hein>ah ok. according to that search, i am running the same version currently, so does that mean i should be ok?
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08:08<cschutijser>Yes, imo you are safe now
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08:09<Hein>thanks cschutijser
08:09<cschutijser>In the Debian Security Bug Tracker you can see bugs which are not yet backported, IIRC
08:09<cschutijser>You're welcome
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08:54<Hein>Hello, me again
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08:55<Hein>What would be the best ftp software to use for debian lenny? im currently using proftpd, but it uses clear text authentication and im not sure how to disable that...
08:56<abrotman>not using ftp would be a good start
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08:56<Hein>hahaha, hi abrotman. how else do i get the files on my web server then?
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08:58<Hein>i can disable ftp and only use telnet via putty, right
09:00<babilen>!tell Hein -about ftpmustdie
09:00<themill>Hein: the 1990s are calling and want their protocols back. Use ssh and sftp (or scp).
09:00<babilen>Hein: The linked article mentions a few alternatives. SCP is certainly a good one
09:01<Hein>ah ok, cool, thanks!
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09:02<abrotman>Hein: and if yu're using windows, filezilla is pretty easy
09:02<Hein>im currently using filezilla
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09:03<Hein>i was under the impression that I had to run ftp server on the server in order to upload files
09:03<Hein>so i guess sftp is a good option as an ftp server, right?
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09:04<babilen>Hein: Your ssh server will provide that. It is rather ftp-like than actually ftp
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09:07<Zathras>why does phppgadmin depend so heavily on apache2 packages? Should it not just depend on a (any) httpd supporting php?
09:07<Hein>ah ok
09:07<Hein>cool thanks!
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09:07<themill>Zathras: it doesn't; it does. Install the httpd and php5-cgi packages that you want first then install phppgadmin.
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09:08<Hein>Sweet! Thanks! you guys are amazing. 10/10 again!
09:08<Zathras>both apt-get and aptitude still want to install a bunch of apache stuff on Squeeze if I try to do that
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09:09<Zathras>lighttpd is running fine and I made the choice deliberately over apache
09:09<themill>Zathras: pastebinning the output would be handy
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09:10<themill>Zathras: the output of "apt-cache policy; apt-cache policy lighttpd php5-cgi" would be handy too.
09:10<sml>hein... you can use SFTP with proftpd
09:10<koollman>Zathras: you can retry, with aptitude -R
09:10<sml>too late
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09:11<themill>sml: I presume you mean some sort of ftps/ftp+ssl/ftp+tls thing not sftp.
09:12<sml>themill: I mean ftps not sftp
09:12<Zathras>ah. Joy!. I did not have php5-cgi installed. After I did that the apache stuff was left out of the suggested downloads of apt-get and aptitude
09:12<sml>mind you , one can alwasy just tunnel the control channel via ssh to protect passwords. bit of a hack tho
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09:13<sml>!tell sml about ftpmustdie
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09:14<themill>Zathras: if you look at the output of "apt-cache show phppgadmin" you'll see that these alternatives are listed, giving you an idea about how to achieve what you want. "aptitude why phpgadmin apache2" can sometimes also help (but wouldn't in this case)
09:14<Zathras>ok. cool. thanks
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09:55<amed>hi everyone
09:56<amed>i'm a newbie in debian
09:56<amed>i have a hp mini 110-3700
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09:56<amed>wireless card not work
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10:02<dvs>!tell amed -about wl
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10:14<Lantizia>is it possible to use the sudo command to ascertain if it's possible for the logged in user to get root privileges using it - without actually calling it in the traditional way (i.e. it asks for a password)
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10:14<Lantizia>(yes i ask this in #ubuntu as well as I'm developing code for use on both distros)
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10:15<themill>sudo -l ?
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10:16<Lantizia>themill, can't call that unless you're already root
10:17<Lantizia>basically i want my script to determine if it's even possible for the luser to get root rights via sudo before it then attempts to re-run itself using sudo for them to enter their password
10:17<Lantizia>if it's not possible for them to run it via sudo then it using su - root -c "program" instead
10:17<Lantizia>and hopes they know the root password instead
10:19<simonw2>Lantizia: sudo -v maybe - or whatever "sudo -v" does!
10:19<Lantizia>they all just prompt for password :(
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10:20<simonw2>Lantizia: "sudo -v" tells me I can't run sudo on this machine without prompting for password
10:21<Lantizia>thing is from a lusers point of view you can't check /etc/shadow or /etc/sudoers to see if root _has_ a password or if the current user is on the sudo list
10:21<Lantizia>simonw2, hmm not here :S
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10:21<Lantizia>"If given the -v (validate) option, sudo will update the user's timestamp, prompting for the user's password if necessary. This extends the sudo timeout for another 15 minutes (or whatever the timeout is set to in sudoers) but does not run a command."
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10:25<Lantizia>simonw2, ah I see what you mean now - unfortunately it doesn't guarantee root access as it may be sudo rights for only specific tasks
10:25<themill>Lantizia: is this for use on the desktop?
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10:26<Lantizia>themill, yeah - double click a script in nautilus/dolphin - click "run in terminal" and it'll figure out for itself how to re-launch it with the right privileges kinda thing
10:26<Lantizia>i'd use gksu or kdesudo or something but then there is xfce, lxde, etc etc etc
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10:26<themill>gksu should be configured to use either su or sudo depending on what the user can or can't do.
10:26<Lantizia>^ see up
10:26<themill>tell them to just install gksu.
10:27<themill>leave reinventing the wheel to someone else.
10:27<Lantizia>don't want the script to have dependancies
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10:27<themill>have fun!
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10:47<helty>hi ppl, stupid question. I'm using expr for regular expresion. I'm trying expr match `host` '^.*\([a-Z]*\.[a-Z]*\.[a-Z]\).*$' to get domain name, but it doesn't works .... some advice plz [-_-]
10:48<sney>nothing about regexps is a stupid question, that shit is voodoo
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10:50<helty>yes, and soon I'll be insane and will stab my computer like a voodoo doll
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11:11<themill>helty: do you actually have reverse dns set up for your local network like that?
11:11<helty>oh yes :)
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11:13<helty>I've solved that issue, it was problem between keyboard and sofa. Here is result - HNAME=`host $line | grep -v 'not found'` ; HNAME=`expr match "\`echo $HNAME\`" '^.*\s\([a-Z0-9]*\.[a-Z]*\.[a-Z]*\)\.*'` \s was the problem
11:14<helty>regulars are making me mad ...
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11:15<Bushmills>helty: bash? check out [[ ... =~ ... ]] for comparison against regular expression
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11:16<helty>yes bash
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11:17<angelica> hola
11:17<helty>what should I do with that "expression" o_O
11:17<angelica>una consulta
11:17<helty>una manana :)
11:18<angelica>helty me puedes ayudar
11:18<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
11:18<dpkg>well, cs is computer science , or counter strike
11:18<dpkg>somebody said cz was Czech Republic. Kanal pro cechy je #debian-cz
11:18<helty>ah :)
11:18<sney>!msg the bots
11:19<dpkg>Please have conversations with the bots in a private message as much as possible. Instead of using "!topic" or "!tell <your nick> about <topic>" in the channel, you can just "/msg dpkg topic". See <bot help> and to learn more and browse my factoids on-line at . If you're helping people, you can check that you have the right factoid before showing it to others.
11:19<helty>ok no more anarki :)
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13:17<babilen>,info codeblocks --release sid
13:17<judd>Package codeblocks (devel, optional) in sid/i386: Code::Blocks integrated development environment (IDE). Version: 10.05-2; Size: 1916.4k; Installed: 5120k; Homepage:; Screenshot:
13:17<babilen>vichy: Are you looking for ^^^ ?
13:18<babilen>,checkbackport codeblocks
13:18<judd>Backporting package codeblocks in sid→squeeze/i386: all build-dependencies satisfied.
13:18*babilen hugs judd and themill
13:18<babilen>!tell vichy -about ssb
13:18<babilen>vichy: Looks as if you can backport code::blocks from sid to stable. Just follow the instructions dpkg just told you about.
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13:19<babilen>s/just told you about/sent you in a private message/
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13:20<sney>ooh, checkbackports
13:20<sney>that's cool
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13:22<babilen>sney: Oh yeah :)
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13:35<wp>hate the way browsers always assume my sites are untrusted just coz i hand rolled the certs. who are these CAs anyway. meh. growl.
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13:36<wp>sorry wrong, chan
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14:01<jhutchins_lt>wp: Wrong understanding on how the infrastructure works in the first place.
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14:04<wp>jhutchins_lt: I understand how the infrastructure works. and it's brain dead. why someone that has written some software has decided on my behalf that i should trust a bunch or abritrary companies... the whole CA architecture is in long need of an overhaul
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14:06<wp>jhutchins_lt: the other week i had to update Adobe products , mozilla products, Google products, and the system certs via ca-certificates also. I think a notary system would be much better IMHO
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14:07<valdyn>wp: "dpkg-reconfigure ca-certificates" and pick who you trust -> no one is deciding for you
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14:08<the1>How is it that this channel has the exact same topic set at the exact same time as the one in Freenode. Are OFTC and Freenode in the same network or the two channels are synced?
14:08<wp>valdyn: done one better. i use perspectives plugin but that doesn't help me with products that DON'T use ca-certificates
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14:09<retro|blah>the1: No.
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14:10<retro|blah>the1: They are two separate channels on two separate networks.
14:10<the1>retro|blah, okay.
14:10<jhutchins_lt>the1: Lots of common participants though, and general agreement on what needs to be said.
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15:07<smhar>I am planning to buy a new vga card, and I want to check to see if Geforce G210 1GB is working fine under debian wheezy. any one here is using this card?
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15:08<koobert>does anyone here know what ./ --prefix=path/to/installation/prefix
15:08<koobert>for koobert
15:09<koobert>should i just use that as it is
15:10<koobert>it told me my permission are denied
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15:11<koobert>./ 232: ./ Permission denied
15:12<jhutchins_lt>koobert: Where did you get
15:12<koobert>in koobert's download folder
15:12<jhutchins_lt>smhar: Wheezy is still testing.
15:13<jhutchins_lt>smhar: It will probably release with a different version of xorg than it has now.
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15:13<koobert>i am using the root user
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15:14<towo`>smhar, at the moment, the card would work fine
15:14<smhar>jhutchins_lt, more updated xorg is more likely to have updated drivers that will support newer hardware. but I was asking about now
15:14<smhar>towo`, oh,,, thank you
15:14<koobert>how to make it respect /usr/local
15:14<jhutchins_lt>smhar: Yes, also fairly likely to have broken things like specific drivers (re the intel drivers in late squeeze).
15:15<jhutchins_lt>koobert: Are we supposed to know what koobert is?
15:15<smhar>jhutchins_lt, true, but rare, in my experience. I have been using testing for several years now, with -almost- no problem
15:16<koobert>i just gave koobert read and write
15:16<jhutchins_lt>koobert: I don't find any package by that name in squeeze or nelly.
15:16<koobert>i have two kooberts in the permisions for the boost folder
15:16<koobert>i am installing boost
15:17<jhutchins_lt>koobert: I have no idea what you're talking about, but it doesn't seem to be related to Debian.
15:17<koobert>are you a troll? boost is well respected
15:18<koobert>just because the operating system was written in C doesn't give you the right to know so little about whats up with CPP
15:18<koobert>you just want to rush me out the door. you don't think i am important
15:18<koobert>so be it
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15:20<jhutchins_lt>koobert: It's just that you don't seem to have any question related to Debian.
15:20<towo`>he's gone
15:20<jhutchins_lt>just as well.
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15:21<jhutchins_lt>We're unforgivably ignorant of wtf he's on about.
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15:22<towo`>jhutchins_lt, i think, he speak about libboost
15:22<towo`>but i don't get, what he want to do
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16:19<billy>hello, need some help with mdadm and a busted raid5
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16:22<roma>hi all
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16:22<madduck>billy: I am going to bed now, I think you might be best off writing an email
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16:39<bim_ir>hi! I have a problem! when I do `# gdm', I can't get mouse and keyboard support
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16:39<cthuluh>maybe should you run the whole /etc/init.d/gdm startup script?
16:40<bim_ir>how to?
16:40<crd>service gdm start
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16:41<bim_ir>I got that /etc/init.d/messagebus start shall be perfomed before /etc/init.d/haldaemon start
16:41<crd>what runlevel are you in?
16:42<bim_ir>crd: 3 or course
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16:42<crd>er, 2 is the defualt in debian
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16:42<bim_ir>2 is single user
16:42<crd>1 is single user
16:42<bim_ir>3 is okay if you don't want x11 onb every launch
16:42<towo`>and is doesn't matter, if 2 or 3
16:43<bim_ir>2 is su with networking
16:43<crd>2..5 are identical
16:43<towo`>runlevels 2 -5 are identical in debian
16:43<towo`>since ever
16:43<themill>bim_ir: debian is not redhat
16:43<cthuluh>now are you running debian or not?
16:43<bim_ir>towo`: okay, how to not to get x11 on launch?
16:43<cthuluh>man update-rc.d
16:43<towo`>bim_ir, stom $dm
16:43<dpkg>Debian does not use a specific runlevel for graphical display managers by default. Just remove the DM package(s) with "aptitude remove xdm kdm wdm gdm gdm3 pdm slim". "echo false >/etc/X11/default-display-manager" will also disable the DM, or just hit ctrl-alt-fN to get to a console. nodm is the name of a minimal/automatic display manager (
16:44<towo`>bim_ir, or configure your runlevels at your need
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16:44<bim_ir>I do need plain tty at startup, rullvl 3
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16:44<towo`>then remove $dm from runlevel 3
16:45<bim_ir>towo`: remove gdm? but I won't be able to 'startx' and 'starte16'
16:46<crd>update-rc.d gdm disable 3
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16:46<cthuluh>you don't need gdm to use startx
16:46<bim_ir>bash: update-rc.d: command not found
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16:46<bim_ir>cthuluh: but startx doesn't work w/o gdm
16:46<towo`>bim_ir, totaly wronf
16:47<crd> /sbin isn't in your normal path, run that again as root and it'll work.
16:47<towo`>startx does never need a $dm
16:47<crd>all startx needs is an .xinitrc
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16:47<bim_ir>su -l okay
16:47<crd>and maybe a .xserverrc if you have a weird config
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16:48<bim_ir>insserv: warning: current start runlevel(s) (2 4 5) of script `gdm' overwrites defaults (2 3 4 5)
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16:49<crd>that warning just means it worked.
16:49<bim_ir>cool yeah
16:49<crd>although that might go horribly wrong if debian goes through runlevel 2 to get to runlevel 3...
16:49<bim_ir>hang on
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17:02<pmitros>Why is it that to install Ekiga (video conferencing), Debian wants me to install everything from evolution-data-server to
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17:04<crd>pmitros: because you've got recommends set to be automatically installed
17:04<crd>restart aptitude with the -R flag
17:04<themill>,depends ekiga
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17:04<judd>Package ekiga in squeeze/i386 -- depends: libatk1.0-0 (>= 1.29.3), libavahi-client3 (>= 0.6.16), libavahi-common3 (>= 0.6.16), libavahi-glib1 (>= 0.6.16), libc6 (>= 2.3.6-6~), libdbus-glib-1-2 (>= 0.78), libebook1.2-9 (>= 2.30.1), libedataserver1.2-13 (>= 2.30.1), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.1), libgconf2-4 (>= 2.27.0), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.24.0), libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.20.0), libldap-2.4-2 (>= 2.4.7), libnotify1 (>= 0.4.5),
17:04<judd>libnotify1-gtk2.10, libopal3.6.8, libpango1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0), libpt2.6.7, libsasl2-2, libsigc++-2.0-0c2a (>= 2.0.2), libstdc++6 (>= 4.4.0), libx11-6, libxext6, libxml2 (>= 2.7.4), libxv1, gconf2 (>= 2.28.1-2), evolution-data-server.
17:04<themill>recommends or not won't remove that last entry there...
17:04<pmitros>I'm using apt-get, not aptitude.
17:05<crd>--no-install-recommends than
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17:05<themill>pmitros: you can still choose to not install recommended packages with apt-get, but that won't remove all of those dependencies.
17:06<pmitros>crd: Huh. Thanks. I didn't know about that one. It's still messy, but a lot less so. I'm still getting evolution-data-server, but the really ridiculous things are mostly gone now.
17:06<pmitros>crd: That helps a lot.
17:07<cwood>Everything gnome-y seems to come with a bucket full of dependencies.
17:07<crd>i could say the same for eveything kde-y
17:07<pmitros>Know of a non-Gnome-y video conferencing program?
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17:08<crd>Skype /so sorry
17:08<pmitros>Kde seems a little bit better for this than Gnome. Not great, but slightly better. Gnome tends to install swarms of servers and deamons, at least for me, where KDE is mostly libraries.
17:08<crd>KDE dresses up it's servers and deamons as libraries.
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17:09<pmitros>Sort of. They don't seem to do things like sit around and run when the programs aren't running as much, or commandeer resources like sound cards quite as much as Gnome.
17:10<crd>You've never used nepomuk in a low RAM environment, huh?
17:10<pmitros>I have, indeed, never used or heard of Nepomuk
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17:13<pmitros>I was looking at, where it seemed too buzzwordy. There isn't anything that says what it does. The KDE site is a little better.
17:14<pmitros>My initial level of scepticism is quite high, since I've never seen any project that simultaniously used the words 'semantic web' and had any hopes of being useful.
17:14<pmitros>But I'll look around.
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17:14<crd>from what i gather it basically just does a bunch of indexing, uses up all my RAM, doesn't let my hard drive spin down, and then I turn it off.
17:14<pmitros>'Ontology' is also one of those things that associates itself with b******t
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17:15<pmitros>That sounds like about what I would expect from a symantic web project.
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17:15<Screwba>any dhclient pros around?
17:16<pmitros>I've met many semantic web researchers, and not one of them understood what they were working on.
17:16<crd>i used Gnome 3 and KDE 4 as an excuse to give a few WMs a try, I'm really digging xmonad.
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17:17<crd>this article should clear things up a bit:
17:17<pmitros>I met one who was actively trying to avoid understanding what he was working on, because he was afraid he'd lose all motivation once he understood how flakey the big picture was.
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17:17<Screwba>my network uses Microsoft DHCP (can not be change) and there is an option 161 called FTPDATA with a string value within it. The value tells the location of an FTP Server with user/pass/path information.
17:18<crd>Aye Screwba, what about it?
17:18<Screwba>looking on my Debian box, I do not see this information in my dhclient.leases
17:18<Screwba>think that is the file
17:18<pmitros>Skimming it, there isn't much there that I haven't read elsewhere.
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17:19<crd>Screwba: It's used for things like giving a DHCP lease to PXEs and pointing them in the direction of the file they need to execute.
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17:20<Screwba>exactly, I am building a 'Live Image'
17:20<Screwba>and need to pull this information to download some additional configuration settings which will be static to all clients
17:21<Screwba>but I also plan on using this information to store 'other' client changed information on the PXE device
17:21-!-smhar [~smhar@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:21<Screwba>sort of bring a level of persistance to my PXE/NetBoot image
17:21<Screwba>crd: do I have to change my dhclient.config file or something?
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17:22<pmitros>crd: Do you do anything with semantic web?
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17:22<crd>pmitros: no, i don't.
17:22<crd>Screwba: That's not what it's sued for. See:
17:22<pmitros>Ah. Good. I just want to make sure I wasn't offending anyone.
17:23<Screwba>crd: looked in all my .lease files and this string is not in any of them but all the other settings are there
17:23<Screwba>thanks, will look now
17:23<crd>pmitros: Now ask any of the other 500 people in the chan if they've got anything to do with it!
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17:24<pmitros>I figured most of them weren't around. The odds of the 5 or so actively participating working on it are, while non-zero, tiny. But sure. I'll try it your way. Anyone working on semantic web?
17:26<crd>I was being sarcastic. :)
17:26<aktiv[b]>any way to restart the usb system? dmesg lists a bunch of hub_port_status failed (err = -110) when i try to plug in something
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17:27<Screwba>crd: that doesn't tell me anything that I do not know already...what I am looking for is a way to parse the option 161 information from my DHCPOFFER/DHCPREQUEST information or find the information on the system while booting so I can run a
17:27<Screwba>script...I am always run a script to download a file from an FTP server but I want it to be flexible
17:28<crd>aktiv[b]: rmmod usbcore; modprobe usbcore ?
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17:30<pmitros>Weird. I don't have a /etc/apt/apt.conf. I have the backup. I wonder if it went away in some upgrade.
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17:31<crd>you should be using apt.conf.d/
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17:35<pmitros>I guess I should. I'll learn it another day.
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17:37<pmitros>I originally switched from Red Hat (I think 4.2, but the dates don't work out right, so maybe 4.0 or 4.1) to Debian because the Red Hat configuration files were big, complex, and incomprehensible...
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17:37<pmitros>Debian, at the time, had nice, simple, easy-to-read scripts and configuration files.
17:38<crd>It still does.
17:38<crd>Most of the time...
17:39<crd>And configuration directories make managing it even easier.
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17:40<pmitros>Yeah. It was Colgate, so 4.0. I don't think configuration directories do. The nice thing about files is you've got templated lines you comment in and out. I'd like to add APT::Install-Recommends "0";, but I have no idea where.
17:41<crd>Put it /etc/apt.conf.d/apt.conf if you're that averse to conf directories.
17:41<pmitros>But Debian, while more complex than it was in 1996, is still much simpler than Red Hat 4.0 (or any more recent release).
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17:41*pmitros tries it
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17:43*pmitros finds it didn't work, and decides to do it another day. Too much other stuff.
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17:48<crd>pmitros: could be it was ignored because /etc/apt/apt.conf existed. the presence of that file overrides the conf directory.
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18:21<scisteffan>what alternative can I use to alsa for recording audio from a built in mic on Macbook pro?
18:21<Black_Prince>configured alsa maybe?
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18:24<roma>scisteffan, excuse me for offtop. what is your impression of running debian on macbook?
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18:25<jthill>.. ? I'm on wheezy and make menuconfig is now saying it can't find the ncurses libs? last time I ran it was aug 31 going on the .config mod date
18:26<anonym_>hi. At the moment im doing a backup of my system. Do you know if i will be able to start the system (after restoring) if i dont copy the "/media" folder?
18:27<roma>anonym_, i think its ok
18:27<Black_Prince>jthill, do you have libncurses-dev
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18:27<jthill>Black_Prince: yup
18:27<scisteffan>roma - quite easy to setup with rEFIt. The trackpad and backlit keyboard are easy to configure. but suspend to RAM is problematic for me.
18:27<anonym_>thanks roma
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18:28<roma>scisteffan, thanks! i am considering macbook as a replacement for my old thinkpad:)
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18:29<roma>anonym_, np :)
18:29<jthill>Black_Prince: but gcc t.c -lncurses gets me /usr/bin/ld: error: cannot find
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18:30<scisteffan>Black_Prince - how would I set up a microphone? Can I edit device files?
18:30<Black_Prince>scisteffan, try looking at alsa documentation or whatever ...
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18:32<Black_Prince>jthill, what was last time you upgraded your system?
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18:35<jthill>Black_Prince: yesterday according to apt/history.log
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18:36<Black_Prince>judd, file --release wheezy
18:36<judd>Search for in wheezy/i386: lib64ncurses5: lib64/; libncurses5: lib/i386-linux-gnu/; libncurses5-dbg: usr/lib/debug/
18:36<jthill>Black_Prince: ok, libncurses5-dev on 10-06 -- but the libs are where says they should be
18:37<jthill>judd, file --release wheezy/amd64
18:37<judd>Search for in squeeze/i386: libncurses5: lib/; lib64ncurses5: lib64/; libncurses5-dbg: usr/lib/debug/
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18:37<jthill>judd's out of date
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18:37<Black_Prince>jthill, that's for squeeze .. for wheezy amd64 you need --release wheezy --arch amd64
18:38<Black_Prince>judd, file --release wheezy --arch amd64
18:38<judd>Search for in wheezy/amd64: lib32ncurses5: lib32/; libncurses5: lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/; libncurses5-dbg: usr/lib/debug/
18:38<jthill>judd, file --release wheezy --arch amd64
18:38<judd>Search for in wheezy/amd64: lib32ncurses5: lib32/; libncurses5: lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/; libncurses5-dbg: usr/lib/debug/
18:38<jthill>Black_Prince: yup, that's the spot, they're there
18:38<Black_Prince>judd, file --release wheezy --arch amd64
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18:38<judd>Search for in wheezy/amd64: lib32ncurses5-dev: usr/lib32/; lsb-build-base3: usr/lib/lsb3/; libncurses-gst: usr/lib/gnu-smalltalk/; libncurses5-dev: usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/
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18:39<Black_Prince>jthill, and is /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/ symlink to anything?
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18:44<jthill>Black_Prince: there's a in both /lib and /usr/lib, but the one in /usr/lib isn't a symlink, it contains INPUT( -ltinfo) which at least looks like it might be right
18:44<jthill>Black_Prince: /lib/ does symlink to /lib/
18:45<Black_Prince>jthill, try to backup one in /usr/lib and replace with -lncurses
18:46<jthill>Black_Prince: ... I read that as a textual replace of the INPUT arg? Do I have that right?
18:46<Black_Prince>jthill, yes ... first backup it then make it look like INPUT(-lncurse -ltinfo)
18:47<Black_Prince>-lncurses* that is
18:47<jthill>ok, trying it
18:49<jthill>Black_Prince: ... /usr/bin/ld: fatal error: out of file descriptors and couldn't close any
18:49<jthill>which makes sense
18:50<jthill>I'm'a try with a symlink
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18:51<jthill>That did it
18:51<Black_Prince>Yes, that would link to itself in an infinite loop
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18:51<Black_Prince>congratulations ...
18:52<Black_Prince>dpkg, congratulate jthill
18:52<dpkg>Yay jthill, you did it!
18:52<jthill>Thanks, wouldn't have got there w/o the help
18:52<jthill>reportbug time?
18:52<jthill>nvm, I know the answer to that I think
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18:53<Black_Prince>jthill, what is your libncurses5-dev version?
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18:55<jthill>Black_Prince: 5.9-2, and the actual make menuconfig just gets farther, now fails on multiple undefined references to things like LINES and cbreak
18:56<nyov>where can I find pack and unpack in debian? google is not helpful :p
18:56<Black_Prince>jthill, well is split into and ...
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18:56<Black_Prince>And make just links to -lncurses and it is missing reference to -ltinfo symbols.
18:57<jthill>Black_Prince: um. erm. right. so now I'm patching the kernel makefiles, ohh goodygoodygoody
18:57<Black_Prince>judd, file bin/unpack
18:57<judd>No packages in squeeze/i386 were found with that file.
18:58<nyov>no way. oh crap
18:58<Black_Prince>nyov, there is unpack200 which is java related ...
18:59<nyov>i know, but i need zlib decompression with unpacking something like a tarball i think
18:59<Black_Prince>nyov, unpack from sourceforge?
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19:00<Black_Prince>nyov, this one in general ?
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19:04<Black_Prince>Somehow that program looks old and unmaintained ...
19:04<nyov>Black_Prince: looks like a perl program. not sure.
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19:04<Black_Prince>It is perl program ... But last release was made 2002 ... bleh
19:04<babilen>nyov: Are you thinking of unp?
19:04<babilen>,info unp
19:04<judd>Package unp (utils, optional) in squeeze/i386: unpack (almost) everything with one command. Version: 2.0~pre4; Size: 13.3k; Installed: 100k
19:05<babilen>little handy tool
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19:06<nyov>babilen: i'll try that
19:06<jthill>Black_Prince: fyi, adding the full path to the original INPUT arg, INPUT(/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/ -ltinfo) did the trick
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19:06<Black_Prince>jthill, congratulations again
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19:15<nyov>babilen, didn't work. what i was looking for was but not sure if that would work either
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19:18<babilen>nyov: Didn't work for what? (note: /me is missing a bit of context)
19:18<dpkg>VATTENE VIA!
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19:19<nyov>already compiled me a little zpipe tool, where I can pipe through my file and it will deflate without fault. problem is, then I have a chunk of data I can view in a hex editor, but have no way of splitting into individual files.
19:19<nyov>it is not a tarball
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19:20<nyov>guess I'll have to go back to my win extractor :x
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20:09<JoeKickass>hi all
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20:24<dpkg>Python is a very nice scripting language, easy to learn and still quite powerful and elegant if you know how to use it. See . #python and ##python on, #python on See also <python 2.6>, <python 2.7> and <python 3>.
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20:25<whoeveris>joe do you know how to use the python module?
20:25<babilen>whoeveris: Which module exactly? What are you trying to do?
20:26<whoeveris>i noticed when i entered the room it said perl and python modules loaded
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20:26<whoeveris>i was wondering if they were interactive
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20:27<JoeKickass>when I doubleclick a "webm" file I get an error and no video in both/either VLC and the mplayer gui thing. However playing it via cli like ''mplayer file.webm'' works fine.
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20:28<babilen>whoeveris: Those are probably related to your IRC client's plugin interface and not specific to #debian (or any other channel fwiw)
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20:29<JoeKickass>how can I get the file to open through nautilus?
20:29<whoeveris>thanks babilen
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22:21<braiam>where's the devs channel??
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22:25<braiam>wait, does there know about libs and symbols stuff??
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22:26<diego>can somebody help me with epson printer
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22:26<diego>i need to know the ink level for epson stylus tx 130
22:27<diego>i tried with escputil,ink, avasys drivers and others programs, but dont work
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22:30<th>what about mtink?
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22:34<diego>mtink doesn't recognize my printer
22:35<th>perhaps someone else with tx 30 can help. mine is the ancient stylus color 600, works with mtink. hope you find the solution in no time :)
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22:39<diego>ok thanks
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23:25<alazare619>what would the line read that i would need to add in the preseed in order to set the computers name
23:28<jordanm>alazare619: looks like d-i netcfg/get_hostname string unassigned-hostname
23:28<jordanm>alazare619: haven't tried or used it myself
23:28<alazare619>see thats what i used too didnt work tho :S
23:29<jordanm>FAI is popular with debian :\
23:30<jordanm>I personally have only used kickstart on non-debian for automated installation
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23:34<ariasfonseca>hay alguien que me pueda ayudar con la instalacion de un modem huawei
23:35<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
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---Logclosed Tue Oct 11 00:00:35 2011