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#debian IRC Logs for 2011-10-18

---Logopened Tue Oct 18 00:00:05 2011
---Daychanged Tue Oct 18 2011
00:00<MrFrood>feel free :)
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00:02<mdik>still a great piece of software...
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00:04<MrFrood>best MTA around for heavy duty mail stuff IMHO
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00:09<rjsalts>MrFrood: MTA or MUA?
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00:10*MrFrood giggles, good spot :-|
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01:00<aussa>I don't have X11/Xosh.h, how do I get, what do I have to install?
01:00<aussa>I don't have X11/Xos.h, how do I get, what do I have to install?
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01:12<sney>aussa: some day, I'm going to tell you about 'apt-file search', and you're actually going to remember it for more than 10 seconds.
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01:31<Mephisto>anyone alive?
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01:32<Mephisto>have a few questions
01:32<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
01:32<Mephisto>ok, sorry. I'm just used to some attention.
01:32<Mephisto>fine, here goes:
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01:33<Mephisto>1) Is it any possible to solve mic prob using skype in Debian. I guess i don't have to tell you for 100 time that it doesn't work, or it appears for a while and then goes off without any seen reason. Is there any fix for that?
01:34<Mephisto>2) Why do youtube videos slow down badly to jerky motion if HD mode?
01:34<Mephisto>Debian 6.0.3.
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01:36<MrFrood>what graphics ?
01:36<Mephisto>my video you mean?
01:36<Mephisto>ATI HD4200
01:36<MrFrood>(nvidia/ati/intel etc)
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01:36<MrFrood>free or non free driver
01:37<Mephisto>i dunno, i didn't install it, Debian did all the stuff for me.
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01:38<MrFrood>I'm not really familiar with ati but with nvidia installing the non-free ddrivers really perks thing up
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01:39<Mephisto>well, i didn't do anything. Video is alright, good thing i got onto Debian right now, 'cause Lenny doesn't recognize my hardware already. I mean, my chipset is newer to it.
01:39<MrFrood>Mephisto: if you don't get the answers you require now ask again in a few hours once Europe is awake
01:39<Mephisto>and 6th had not probs doing it.
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01:39<Mephisto>ok, thanks. Of course i'm not gonna just leave forever..
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01:40<MrFrood>by default Debian installs the free drivers
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01:40<Mephisto>i'll stay here for a while if you don't mind. I'm anyways new to linux, so i have nowhere to go.
01:40<Mephisto>well yes, but i dunno how to get non-free ones (whatever that implies)
01:41<Mephisto>so far it's been pretty nice... but mic issue in skype is actually somewhat more important to me than video.
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01:42<Mephisto>and having looked up a few posts on forums i've come to conclusion that there's really no solution to it.
01:42<MrFrood>ddepending on your card try either '/msg dpkg radeon' or '/msg dpkg fglrx' for more info
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01:42<Mephisto>ok.. thanks
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01:42<dpkg>fglrx is the ATI/AMD proprietary display driver for Radeon HD and FireGL graphics cards. As of fglrx-driver 1:9-4-1, no chips prior to the R600 series (i.e. models up to and including the Radeon X1950) are supported; use the <radeon> or <radeonhd> drivers for device support. To install fglrx, ask me about <fglrx dkms>; see <fglrx lenny> for oldstable. #ati on
01:42<MrFrood>should give you a message in a new buffer
01:43<Mephisto>yeah, got it
01:43<jm_>but does it work with flash?
01:43<Mephisto>it does, but slowly
01:43<Mephisto>i mean.. it's alright mostly but if it's stream HD video then it gets quite jerky
01:43<jm_>right I meant video decoding acceleration
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01:44<Mephisto>i dunno, even if it does then it does it not quite right
01:44<Mephisto>actually no
01:44<Mephisto>i've read on some forum
01:44<Mephisto>thats the problem
01:44<Mephisto>there's no acceleration
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01:46<jm_>right so it's questionable if this will help
01:47<Mephisto>i see, but what do i do? Anyways, i don't watch no HD video on youtube, but would be still nice to fix it. But as i said above, i'm more concerned about skype microphone issue...
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01:48<jm_>why not test with another app?
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01:49<Mephisto>it's probably only skype..
01:49<Mephisto>but i can do it, yeah... hang on
01:50<jm_>it's best to test it first when both work and then also when skype doesn't work anymore - however to resolve an issue with skype I doubt anyone here can help much with it being third party binary only app
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01:50<Mephisto>i see.
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01:50<Mephisto>well, actually mic does work through volume control panel if it's not muted
01:51<Mephisto>but on skype... no
01:51<Mephisto>and i do need it badly.
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01:54<Mephisto>actually i'm using linux version of it
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01:57<Bushmills>microphone is functional under linux, but skype can't use it - conclusion?
01:58<jm_>try asking on skype forums
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01:58<jm_>or use an alternative if possible
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02:00<Mephisto>i don't need skype, i need its network
02:01<Mephisto>and so far there haven't been any other applications supporting it
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02:04<nevyn>Mephisto: are you using gnome and pulseaudio?
02:04<Mephisto>gnome - yes..
02:04<Mephisto>about the latter i have no clue
02:05<Mephisto>if that is any important: alsa mixer
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02:11<Bushmills>Mephisto: try to obtain the source code, maybe somebody can have a look at it
02:11<Mephisto>i'll try
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02:21<Mephisto>ok, another question then.
02:22<Mephisto>how to do icq transport using Epiphany IM for instance?
02:24<Bushmills>epiphany is, afaik, a web browser, not an IM client.
02:24<Bushmills>i'd look at pidgin
02:24<Mephisto>sorry, Empathy
02:24<Mephisto>it goes along with Debian
02:25<Mephisto>the thing is, i can use many IMs, but i still dunno how to bring icq into them
02:26<wompa>Mephisto, I don't know if it's the preferred way to do it, but installing libpurple0 would give you access to more protocols in Empathy, for instance ICQ.
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02:27<Mephisto>hm... ok
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02:27<jm_>you need telepathy-haze
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02:37<wompa>Sorry, yes. You also need that for Empathy (although I think Pidgin just requires libpurple for ICQ).
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02:44<jm_>no worries
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02:57<Mephisto>another question
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02:58<Mephisto>why does it always ask me the password for the access to root directories?
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03:00<Mephisto>i changed custom user to administrator, but i still keeps asking the password
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03:00<wompa>Mephisto, when you are doing what? Browsing directories in a terminal? Like: "cd /" ?
03:00<Mephisto>not in the terminal, but through file manager. I may click on disk D: to get in and it asks for password
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03:03<jm_>possibly because it's not accessible as your regular user - did you try that?
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03:04<jay-rp>Hello! I'm sorry if I'm not in the right place or something... I got an which I don't know how to use (the IMG file). Ive tried to dd it to a pen drive but it won't boot. Do I have a wrong bs= or something? I tried bs=512 on dd. This is my first time to use th
03:04<jay-rp>is, I usually use ISOs. Thanks!
03:04<Mephisto>jm_, yeah, i've made myself an adminstrator, but same thing. Maybe i have to restart...
03:06<jm_>jay-rp: what exact command have you used to dd it?
03:06<jm_>Mephisto: you mean you added yourself to another group? doing that needs ologout/login or you need to use sg/newgrp and start the app there
03:07<jay-rp>jm_: dd if=/path/to/img/debian.img of=/dev/device-node
03:08<jay-rp>jm_: i think the default bs is 512...
03:08<jm_>jay-rp: yes I want to see specific /dev/device-node used
03:09<jay-rp>jm_: of=/dev/sdg1
03:09<jm_>jay-rp: it has to be /dev/sdg most likely, you can also use the hybrid images btw
03:10<jay-rp>oww.. alright.. thanks.. will try.
03:10<nocturnal>so, what of 2.6.33 on debian squeeze?
03:10*nocturnal has never upgraded the kernel on any debian system before
03:10<jay-rp>jm_: oww.. alright.. thanks.. will try. squeeze (6.0.3) released; /msg dpkg squeeze ; /msg dpkg lenny->squeeze | lenny (5.0.9) /msg dpkg 5.0.9 | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg pastebin | /msg bots NOT people | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | wheezy/sid: #debian-next ( | FAQ: | channel logs:
03:10<Mephisto>jm_, hm..
03:11<jm_>nocturnal: squeeze has newer kernel than that
03:11<jm_>judd kernels
03:11<judd>Available kernel versions are: sid: 3.0.0-2-686-pae (3.0.0-5); wheezy: 3.0.0-1-686-pae (3.0.0-3); squeeze-backports: 2.6.39-bpo.2-686-pae (2.6.39-3~bpo60+1); squeeze: 2.6.32-5-686 (2.6.32-38); lenny-backports: 2.6.32-bpo.5-686 (2.6.32-35~bpo50+1); lenny: 2.6.26-2-686 (2.6.26-27)
03:11<jm_>(I mean available)
03:11<jay-rp>jm_: sorry.. what hybrid images? iso_hybrid/ folder on mirrors?
03:12<jm_>jay-rp: indeed (directory, not folder)
03:12<nocturnal>jm_: so if I learn to use squeeze-backports I could do an upgrade?
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03:13<jm_>nocturnal: sure, it's explained in the manual or simply ask dpkg the bot about it
03:13<nocturnal>dpkg backports?
03:13<dpkg>A backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications. (2.7.4 and 2.7.10), . Ask me about <debian-backports> and <backport caveat>. See also <simple sid backport>.
03:13<jay-rp>jm_: hehe,ok.. thanks!
03:13<weedeater64>After adding backports to get iceweasel 7, and now removing backports, how do I now prevent getting results from them when running apt-cache search, or aptitude search ?
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03:14<jm_>nocturnal: where manual is the release notes
03:14<jm_>weedeater64: iceweasel 7 is not on backports, is it?
03:15<weedeater64>hang on jm_ , I may have mispoken, let me check
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03:16<weedeater64> is where I got the sources.
03:16<jm_>weedeater64: yup
03:17<weedeater64>7 is what got installed.
03:17<jm_>weedeater64: did you run apt* update after commenting it out?
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03:18<jm_>but how do you know it finds the version 7?
03:19<weedeater64>ok, nevermind I don't know what else I did, but all is fine now
03:19<weedeater64>sorry for the noise
03:19<jm_>apt-cache show will still show it if it's installed though
03:19<weedeater64>hmm, hang on
03:20<weedeater64>3.5 goodness now
03:20*weedeater64 thinks mozilla need to get slapped
03:21<weedeater64>I guess it was prior to removing the package, but after removing the sources and updating.
03:21<jm_>5 was really bad, 6.0 and 7.0 are much better
03:22<weedeater64>anyway onward, or backward in my case. hehe
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03:22<wompa>Which release of Ff will be in next Debian stable?
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03:23<weedeater64>I've been wondering that myself.
03:23<jm_>wompa: next debian stable is quite a long way away so hard to say, but maybe 9 or 10 with how fast things are going
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03:24<weedeater64>When I can hear my fan just because I visit a webpage, something is very wrong, thus purge 7
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03:44<dpkg>For help in chinese please join #debian-zh, Please use UTF-8, for IRC help see | Qt/KDE è¿æ¸¡æå¼å§ï¼è¯¦æ请é读
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03:46<Mephisto>mic doesn't work at all, not only in skype
03:47<Mephisto>there's no IN from mic as such... although, i can test it by unmuting it control panel and i can hear myself
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03:47<Mephisto>that's one hell of a prob in Debian...
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04:04<f0x>can anyone point me to some guide to install debian on encrypted partition without using enitre hard disk
04:06<weedeater64>I don't know about encrypting, but the netinst will help you partition your drive.
04:07<Mephisto>ive solved mic prob...
04:08<weedeater64>how ?
04:08<weedeater64>I have non working mid too.
04:08<Mephisto>turned out to be "Capture" adjustment
04:08<Mephisto>there's Capture and probably Capture_1
04:08<Mephisto>try activating those
04:08<weedeater64>I've played with that already.
04:08<Mephisto>and use Mic as Source Input
04:09<Mephisto>Front mic or just mic
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04:09<Mephisto>all done?
04:09<weedeater64>just mic
04:09<Mephisto>try front one. Is it standalone/headset one?
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04:10<weedeater64>I think I plugged it in there, but may not have changed mixer, thing is it worked before I reinstalled.
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04:11<weedeater64>It is headset, yes.
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04:15<Mephisto>is it plugged in front of your PC case?
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04:17<weedeater64>I've tried both, it was in back and worked before, and does now on sid, but not squeeze.
04:19<weedeater64>I'm going to upgrade soon, maybe that'll fix it.
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04:20*weedeater64 makes note to self, >> UPGRADE!!
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04:37<esulu>hello all
04:38<esulu>i'm iranian boy and leave in Italy , i want start to translation the debian wiki in Iranianlanguage
04:38<esulu>how can i start please?Can you help me?
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04:46<jm_>esulu: how about this?
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04:52<esulu>jm_: now icreate the login thanks
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05:56<zW>Can someone explain me what the best praktice is on getting mysql 5.5 on debian squeeze please ?
05:57<zW>Compiling it from src isn't the best solution I guess so can I get packages somewhere ?
05:57<zW>I know we have to wait untill it gets into testing ... but what if you need it now ?
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06:00<Lantizia>Hey if I use the open-vm-source and open-vm-tools from the debian repository... and I run "module-assistant auto-install open-vm -i" afterwards...
06:00<Lantizia>If the debian kernel goes up a version one day - will it automatically recompile?
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06:01<gsimmons>Lantizia: No. A wishlist bug for DKMS support is in Debian bug #632220.
06:01<XXL>has anyone had any success with gddrescue?
06:02<Lantizia>gsimmons, so until then i might as well autoremove everything i had to install to compile it?
06:02<Lantizia>gsimmons, e.g. if i was tough on space
06:03<Lantizia>gsimmons, e.g. remove open-vm-source and module-assistant (and all they brought in) but leave open-vm-tools... and my kernel will still be vmware-enabled
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06:21<Lantizia>You know how you can "hold" a package - is there anyway to "hold" the entire system? i.e. no one way upgrade or dist-upgrade in general or even for a specific package until the hold is lifted?
06:21<Lantizia>or even install!
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06:50<nevyn>Lantizia: puppet ;)
06:50<nevyn>ensure => version on everything.
06:51<themill>"don't run apt or dpkg" is surely an easier way.
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06:52<JOVE>I am trying to package some source code into a deb package but I am a bid stocked
06:52<nevyn>themill: remove the exec bit on dpkg ;)
06:52<JOVE>as far as I understand it: I should packaget the source code with the Makefile in a programName-version.tar.gz-file before I run dh_make -f ../programName-version ?
06:52<JOVE>if that is correct then I dont understant why dh_make complains about "Currently there is no top level Makefile!"
06:52<themill>nevyn: it would be easier to just not run it...
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06:54<themill>If you're not giving someone root on the box, then it's not an issue; if you are, then you've already lost.
06:54<jm_>JOVE: it must be run in a dir
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06:56<JOVE>I am running run dh_make -f in a dir called programName-version where programName-version.tar.gz is just above it
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06:59<jm_>where did you create the Makefile?
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07:01<jm_>quick test shows that even though Makefile doesn't exist, it still creates the debian dir and files in it
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07:02<JOVE>the makefile is at the root of the source dir
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07:02<JOVE>witch is package in programName-version.tar.gz
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07:06<JOVE>source and makefile is compressed in programName-version.tar.gz
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07:06<jm_>you don't understand, you need to unpack it, then run dh_make in the dir
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07:17<JOVE>looks like I am still confused. I tried to unpack it, created a folder and run dh_make -f path-to-source but now I get a messeage that says "Source archive you specified ( ../ ) was not found!" and the guide do say it should be packaged in thar.gz-file
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07:30<maxb>I have a RAID controller not supported by squeeze d-i. Can I use wheezy d-i to install squeeze? (Yes, I'll have to arrange for a custom kernel in the installed system before I can boot it)
07:31<jm_>maxb: apparently installer can handle the suite option, so something like suite=squeeze
07:32<weasel>there are squeeze installer images with newer kernels
07:32<babilen>maxb: Do you just need a newer kernel or does it have to be wheezy's d-i?
07:32<babilen>If the former:
07:32<dpkg>Unofficial images for installing Debian Squeeze/6.0 using a later kernel (currently Linux 2.6.39) are available from (images are on the CD mirrors). To supply additional firmware, ask me about <installer firmware>. For a USB install, use the lenny instructions:
07:32<maxb>I think I just need a newer kernel
07:32<jm_>then use kmuto
07:32<jm_>'s images
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07:32<babilen>maxb: Install with a kmuto image then. After the initial installation you can/should install a .39 kernel from backports. (/msg dpkg bdo kernel)
07:33<babilen>Have fun
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07:36<JOVE>I think I have found my mistake (me big n00b). I should have both the source files and the tar.gz-file
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07:39<JOVE>wee, my first debian package seems to work (I can install and run the program)
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07:42<maxb>Hmm - I'm at "Continue the install without loading kernel modules?" which I assume is going to fail, since the netboot.tar.gz won't contain nearly enough kernel modules to support an arbitrary RAID controller
07:42<gsimmons>babilen: Uh, with the kmuto images, a backported kernel is installed to the system.
07:43<maxb>There are some passing references to needing to export the modified d-i CD image on a web server, but it's not entirely obvious where a reference to that is to be inserted
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07:45<babilen>gsimmons: Yeah, but backports are not setup or are they?
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07:46<babilen>That would allow maxb to install the linux-image-amd64 (+dependencies) from bdo
07:47<maxb>Currently I have the issue that it's not obvious how I'm supposed to make the kmuto netboot.tar.gz find its udebs over the network
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07:47<babilen>netboot? Don't you have a CD drive?
07:47<maxb>I'm in London and the machine is in Amsterdam
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07:48<babilen>And you can not boot from images?
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07:48<babilen>Ah, you need to setup a TFTP server then. The client will perform a PXE boot and the DHCP server will take care of the rest.
07:49<maxb>Indeed. I've just PXE/TFTP booted the kmuto netboot.tar.gz
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07:49<maxb>The problem is, it needs kernel module udebs, which are, of course, not on the official mirrors
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07:50<gsimmons>babilen: No, backports.d.o entries are not added to sources.list (thought you might have been referring to this).
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07:50<maxb>There appears to be some mention of this on the webpage you pointed me to, as it refers to unpacking the kmuto iso on a webserver, however, it's not obvious how one then tells d-i about this
07:50<babilen>gsimmons: I wasn't sure there for a moment :)
07:51<themill>maxb: the iso *is* d-i, just with a newer kernel
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07:51<maxb>themill: You missed the bit when I said I was not booting using the iso
07:52<babilen>maxb: You are referring to , aren't you?
07:52<maxb>netboot.tar.gz is another flavour of d-i
07:52<maxb>babilen: Yes
07:52<themill>maxb: oh... kmuto provides the appropriate images for that too
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07:54<babilen>"... and Web server for exporting CD contents. On Web server, you'll do "mount -o loop /dev/cdrom /mnt/cdrom" and set up to export /mnt/cdrom to the outside" is probably the part maxb is struggling with.
07:55<maxb>Or more specifically, where do I tell the netboot environment where I put those
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07:59<babilen>maxb: I am not sure (aka: "nfc")
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08:10<pedritoloko>hola ignacio
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08:16<magenta>hello, how i can disable startup of services at package install?
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08:20<jm_>magenta: man invoke-rc.d has some comments about it
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08:24<Lantizia>anyway i can say.... apt-get remove blah-* EXCEPT blah-hello
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08:26<jm_>should work with aptitude and patterns (use blah-hello+)
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08:28<Lantizia>jm_, no way with apt-get?
08:30<jm_>Lantizia: the '+' also works with apt-get, but I don't know if it supports patterns
08:30<jm_>ahh man page suggests it does
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08:32<Lantizia>jm_, apt-get --purge -y autoremove libx* +libxapian22
08:32<Lantizia>kinda like that? i.e. remove all libx* but keep libxapian22
08:33<jm_>Lantizia: I would use "apt-get --purge -y autoremove libx* libxapian22+"
08:34<jm_>and I forgot to use quotes for patterns
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08:35<Lantizia> apt-get --purge -y autoremove "libx*" "libxapian22+" openssh-blacklist-extra tcpd
08:35<Lantizia>it just starts selecting loooads
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08:36<Lantizia>this is a minimal debian install only about 7 things installed that match libx* - one of them i need to keep, others chuck
08:36<jm_>well it will remove anything that depend son your list ...
08:37<Lantizia>nah it's doing something hinky
08:37<babilen>Lantizia: Any particular reason why you don't use aptitude? It would be "aptitude purge '~i~n^libx' libxapian22+"
08:38<jm_>wait, autoremove is something different
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08:38<jm_>you want to use remove
08:39<Lantizia>ok put it this way... this command.... apt-get --purge -y autoremove libx11* libxau6 libxcb1 libxdmcp6 openssh-blacklist-extra tcpd
08:39<Lantizia>does what I want perfectly
08:39<Lantizia>but I'd like to match libxau6 libxcb1 libxdmcp6 in libx* as they're all to do with X
08:39<Lantizia>but libxapian22 isn't to do with X
08:40<Lantizia>if you use the libxapian22+ method then it goes on about it isn't going to be installed when it already is
08:41<jm_>yes that had the desired effect then didn't it?
08:41<Lantizia>umm no
08:42<Lantizia>nevermind I'll just keep the longer version
08:42<babilen>Lantizia: The aptitude command I gave you is not doing what you want?
08:44<babilen>Lantizia: No?
08:45<Lantizia>babilen, don't want to rely on aptitude
08:46<babilen>Lantizia: Why? You would just be using the right tool for the job :-/
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08:47<Lantizia>babilen, because the script i'm calling this from could well (some point in the future) have to be ubuntu compatible as well, and they don't have aptitude
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08:51<Bushmills>debian too has no aptitude - unless it was installed
08:52<Bushmills>come to think of it - many people actually install it
08:52<querier1>Hello, is there a easy way to make a live cd from the debian that is installed(with all its programs et.c)?
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08:53<babilen>Lantizia: fwiw --
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08:53<Lantizia>babilen, not on a default install
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08:53<Bushmills>"default install" is windows :D
08:54<Lantizia>Bushmills, yes it does.. if you install debian 6 without ANY task from tasksel (not even "Standard") you get aptitude
08:55<Bushmills>so it shouldn't matter if any script relies on aptitude. well, not with debian, that is
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08:56<Lantizia>Bushmills, "not with debian, that is" <- exactly
08:56<Bushmills>do you also make your script windows compatible?
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08:58<babilen>Lets drop it -- If Ubuntu compatibility is a prerequisite and the software is not allowed to define *any* dependencies on other packages, who are we to argue?
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09:34<mvn>what is this
09:34<mvn>any one here
09:34<themill>!ubuntuirc mvn
09:34<dpkg>mvn: This is not the Ubuntu help channel. Please do /server and then /join #ubuntu. If you are using XChat, you can right-click the following link and choose connect. irc://
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10:32<supernatendo>I have a question regarding customizing nautilus in the live-build scripts
10:33<supernatendo>I want to disable the nautilus popup window when media is inserted, but I still want the media to be automounted
10:33<supernatendo>Everything I have seen online shows this as a GUI option
10:33<supernatendo>but I want the re-rolled distro to have this option disabled and dont know where I begin to go about doing that
10:36<johanmlg>hi! i need some help with my network manager. im trying to connect to mobile broadband but when i click "tele 2 mobilt internet" ( see screencap here: ) it directly pops up a box saying its disconnected. I think im missing something very obvious, but this is the first thing im using network manager so i really dont know where to start looking
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10:39<jhutchins_lt>johanmlg: Which desktop and release?
10:40<supernatendo>Im using debian squeeze
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10:42<supernatendo>If there is not a way to do this in nautilus, is there another file manager I can use in place of nautilus to not have it pop-up?
10:42<supernatendo>I'm dissappointed in Gnome for not being more configurable without forcing you to use the gui...
10:42<supernatendo>whatever happened to the KISS philosophy lol
10:43<johanmlg>jhutchins_lt, im using LXDE on squeeze and i installed the network manger by doing a apt-get install network-manager-gnome
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10:51<dardevelin>hi everyone, wondering if i can get some help on understand what i need to do to get gtk+ theme engine 'pixmap'
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10:52<bst_>johanmlg: Mobile Broadband enabled ?
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10:52<dardevelin>and if someone can advise me some good backup utility to be able to just restore all system in case need
10:54<johanmlg>bst_, yup, ive enabled it, it asked for my pin code and i typed that in as well :)
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11:04<supernatendo>can anyone point me to the right direction?
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11:04<supernatendo>everything I search online points to gui controls only
11:05<supernatendo>is there a nautilus registry or settings file I can modify? Or can I modify the source to disable this?
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11:06<babilen>supernatendo: You might want to ask in a Gnome specific channel/mailing list -- Channels can be found on, mailing lists whereever. Support for debian live/custom cds is at home in #debian-live and #debian-custom -- You *might* have to play with gconf, but I am by no means a Gnome guru
11:07<supernatendo>thanks babilen
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11:09<babilen>Good luck -- I am not using squeeze's Gnome, but is /apps/nautilus/preferences/media_autorun_x_content_ask what you are after?
11:10<supernatendo>is the /apps/ folder at root?
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11:10<supernatendo>because I dont have an /apps directory at /
11:11<babilen>supernatendo: Anyway, ask upstream .. No, that is in the gconf database.
11:13<babilen>supernatendo: /usr/share/doc/gconf2/README.Debian might be interesting. But I am not going to guess anymore ... It might be the completely wrong approach and just a waste of time.
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11:24<feldmaus_>(autofs) Is it possible to use user specific auto.master files?
11:24<feldmaus_>Which are located under ~/
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11:25<yotam>which one is better? Debian or Red Hat?
11:25<cahoot>only yotam can tell
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11:26<themill>yotam: unsurprisingly, you'll get the same answers here as on freenode.
11:27<feldmaus_>yotam: Debian :-)
11:27<feldmaus_>i never used Red Hat
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11:33<madigor>i want see my router bandwith with mrtg. is there any security reason for doing that with netcat instead of apache? i mean like this "cat bandwith_today.png | nc -l 12345"
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11:34<madigor>cause dont want install apache only for serve 1 picture
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11:37<Qazjap11>themill, I'm not yotam...
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11:38<yotam>themill, I'm not Qazjap11
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11:44<ernesto>i picture??
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11:58<madigor>yes a picture
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12:27<undaVerse>hey.... I would like to say I'm an expert in security banking system, what should I knew ? could someone give me the guides lines ?
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12:43<rpetre>undaVerse: for start, you should know your current and former colleagues in your 20+ years of career in bank security
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12:44<undaVerse>rpetre, the fact is I'm working on a application to a call, and I need to decide on researches topics in security banking, application client to bank... not bank to bank...
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12:45<undaVerse>I think I need to be really expert or get many knowledge in term of banking security standard.... everything
12:46<rpetre>if you imagine there are some sort of standard and open APIs, you're in for a disappointment
12:47<rpetre>there are a few generic security standards, like PCI-DSS, however they don't go into specifics
12:49<rpetre>and each bank exposes their own system differently to outsiders (and as little as possible)
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12:51<swaraj>hello any one there i hav a problem
12:52<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
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12:53<chealer>hi. I'm using Iceweasel 7 under testing. When you have a single Iceweasel window with a single tab left open, is there a way to close Iceweasel but to also "really close" the tab, so that when you re-launch Iceweasel the tab doesn't come back (but rather your homepage)?
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12:54<swaraj>normally when we type some package name in the terminal which we dont hav the terminal winn sa the package is not found and it gives us the thing sudo apt-get install ... but when i type such name i m getting bash: /usr/bin/python: No such file or directory
12:55<chealer>ah, I see that Iceweasel is set to show the last used tabs when it launches. I could set it to show my homepage when it launched, but is there a way to have a mix that will display the homepage if and only if all tabs were "really closed"?
12:55<rpetre>chealer: uncheck "save session" :)
12:55<chealer>s/when it launched/when it launches/
12:56<rpetre>i don't think you can close all the tabs in ffox
12:56<chealer>rpetre: I don't see that option, but that's not what I want
12:56<swaraj>normally when we type some package name in the terminal which we dont hav the terminal winn sa the package is not found and it gives us the thing sudo apt-get install ... but when i type such name i m getting bash: /usr/bin/python: No such file or directory
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12:57<mitnick>hola que tal a todos
12:57<themill>chealer: General -> Startup -> When iceweasel starts: ... ?
12:57<mitnick>que onda
12:57<rpetre>chealer: i mean, it needs to have open at least one page (even if it's about:blank), it doesn't really have a concept of "no document open", to save that state (as far as i know)
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12:58<chealer>rpetre: yeah :-/
12:58<dpkg>Este canal es de ayuda con ordenadores en Ingles. Si no necesitas ayuda con tu ordenador por favor ingresa al canal social de #debian-es con /join #debian-es-cachondeo. Tus amigos probablemente ya esten ahi.
12:58<chealer>themill: yeah, my eyes eventually spotted that preference, but I don't see any option to do what I want
12:59<rpetre>chealer: describe a bit more what you want
12:59<mitnick>hello I'm newbie to Ubuntu so I would like to advise me
12:59<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu ( instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian>.
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12:59<themill>chealer: *shrug* I can't remember the last time I had under 200 tabs open, actually. And I want them restored.
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13:00<rpetre>themill: hah, and i thought i was a freak
13:00<rpetre>i have an extension that counts tabs so i know when they're too many :)
13:00<rpetre>but i am hovering at 100
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13:02<chealer>[rpetre:] I want, if I'm done with all I was doing in Iceweasel, to be able to "really close" all tabs, including the last one, so if I re-open Iceweasel, it displays the homepage but not the last tab I had open. However, I also (and most importantly) want to have Iceweasel normally restore my session, so if I close my PC with several windows open, everything is restored.
13:03<themill>rpetre: browser.sessionstore.max_concurrent_tabs ftw
13:03<rpetre>chealer: what i'd do is set it to restore session, ctrl-w everything until the last one, ctrl-n, ctrl-1, ctrl-w to leave only a blank tab, then ctrl-q
13:04<chealer>the problem is that for me, an open tab is a kind of TODO item, so I want to be able to "really close" them, and not have them come back
13:04<themill>chealer: I believe the session manager extension can do exactly that for you, in that it asks about restoring sessions first
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13:04<swaraj>normally when we type some package name in the terminal which we dont hav the terminal winn sa the package is not found and it gives us the thing sudo apt-get install ... but when i type such name i m getting bash: /usr/bin/python: No such file or directory
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13:04<rpetre>swaraj: you probably don't have /usr mounted
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13:05<swaraj>rpetre : wat should i do now
13:05<rpetre>(or you don't have python installed, but i don't think it's possible)
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13:05<rpetre>swaraj: from what you said so far i can't tell how you ended up in this situation, there could be more explanations
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13:06<swaraj>actually i m getting this error since i executed a python file which contains a shebang line
13:06<rpetre>you either don't have python installed, or your system is messed up in one of a few possible ways
13:07<swaraj>no i hav python instaled i can execute .py files also
13:07<rpetre>we can't tell which
13:07<rpetre>what shebang lines the ones that work have?
13:07<chealer>rpetre: oh. it seems that works, yes, but it kind of requires focus :-| BTW Ctrl-1 doesn't switch window here.
13:07<rpetre>ctrl-1 is supposed to go to first tab
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13:08<rpetre>alt-1, sorry
13:08<rpetre>ctrl-1 is on windows, i keep switching them these days
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13:08<swaraj>#!/usr/bin/python3 i think due this line the default working shell has been changed
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13:08<chealer>rpetre: oh. I wasn't aware there was a window-switching shortcut. Alt+1 does nothing here (KDE)
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13:09<themill>swaraj: python3 != python
13:09<rpetre>chealer: crl-pgup?
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13:10<chealer>rpetre: that switches tabs, but not windows
13:10<swaraj>themill: can u tell me how to solve this problem
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13:10<rpetre>oh, crap
13:10<chealer>rpetre: also, I see no such shortcut on
13:11<rpetre>i said ctrl-n and i meant ctrl-t
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13:11<rpetre>8pm over here :(
13:11<themill>swaraj: I don't know what the problem is yet; I don't think anyone understands what you're trying to do or what is not working.
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13:11<chealer>rpetre: OH. OK
13:12<swaraj>normally when we type some package name in the terminal which we dont hav the terminal winn sa the package is not found and it gives us the thing sudo apt-get install ... but when i type such name i m getting bash: /usr/bin/python: No such file or directory
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13:12<rpetre>!tell swaraj -about private
13:12<chealer>rpetre: yeah, that's not my ideal workflow, but it works
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13:12<themill>swaraj: so "apt-get install python" ...
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13:13<rpetre>chealer: it's the only way i can think of selecting at close-time what you want shown at start time
13:13<swaraj>but i ready hav python istalled
13:14<themill>swaraj: do you? It would seem not.
13:14<swaraj>yes i do i can run .py files also
13:14<gravity>Can you even install debian without python these days?
13:14<themill>gravity: with difficulty
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13:15<themill>swaraj: what does "aptitude search ~npython~i; ls -l /usr/bin/python*" output? Please stick the output in a pastebin such as
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13:21<chealer>themill: is that packaged?
13:21<Nik05>hello guys
13:21<themill>chealer: not that I know of
13:22<Nik05>how can i install/uninstall multiple packages with using a `*'?
13:22<themill>Nik05: what are you really trying to do
13:22<Nik05>trying to remove fglrx :P
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13:22<Nik05>i want to do aptitude purge fglrx*
13:23<themill>Nik05: "aptitude purge ~nfglrx"
13:23<Nik05>and what does ~n do?
13:23<themill>dpkg: tell Nik05 about aptitude search
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13:23<themill>Nik05: matches package names
13:23<Nik05>ok thanks
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13:25<riley_>yo- is there any way to get midnight commander to work properly in mrxvt?
13:25<riley_>or does anyone know any 1337 tabbed terminals to use?
13:25-!-basil [~basil@] has joined #debian
13:26<riley_>i use mrxvt for it's tabbedness and fullscreenedness, but i need to use midnight commander because it is THE BOMB
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13:29<Nik05>themill do you know what modprobe -r radeon drm does? :P
13:29<themill>riley_: konsole and yakuake both have fullscreen modes and are good tabbed terminal emulators.
13:30<themill>Nik05: man modprobe does ...
13:30<Nik05>oh it remove module...
13:30<riley_>does yukakae work with gnome?
13:30<themill>riley_: sure. There's probably a similar gtk app too.
13:30<Nik05>damn i have a lot of modules o.O
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13:31<riley_>i need the most 1337, most powerful terminal evar
13:31-!-whirli_ [~whirl@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:31<riley_>Gconf Error.
13:31<riley_>Have you installed guake.schemas properlly?
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13:32<themill>I just use a terminal emulator that works well and I don't care what other people think of it.
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13:36<gravity>They all suck in one way or another anyway
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13:47<xChatGnome>i have seen multiple downloading of packages while updates/upgrades in ubuntu. but in debian while updates it downloads only one file at a time. is there any way to make synaptic download multiple packages at a time?
13:48<xChatGnome>i asked this because my download speed is pretty slow.
13:48<gravity>xChatGnome: It'll do that automatically if it's downloading from multiple package repositories
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13:49<gravity>xChatGnome: It's likely that your Ubuntu config was set up to use multiple repositories for different sets of packages.
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13:49<xChatGnome>oh. but i am currently trying to upgrade to sid. so there is only a single source.list entry there.
13:50<alternut>hello one for ya...I'm using wheezy...but I want to install the latest chromium-browser, which I believe is in do I get only the browser yet keep the rest of the system as wheezy?
13:51<xChatGnome>i mean synaptic is only trying to download from a single repositories.
13:51<gravity>xChatGnome: I don't think Ubuntu does it any differently. I think it's just how apt works.
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13:51<Nik05>hello guys
13:52<Nik05>I got a little problem :p
13:52<Nik05>i removed fglrx but now xserver doesnt start... it want the module fglrx
13:52<gravity>xChatGnome: I've never noticed it for Ubuntu updates except when I've got multiple repositories.
13:52<gravity>So I doubt it's diverged from Debian
13:52<themill>xChatGnome: if your download speed is slow, trying to download multiple packages at once isn't going to help.
13:52<Nik05>what to do to start X?
13:53<towo`>Nik05, paste your /var/log/Xorg.0.log to a pastebin
13:53<towo`>Nik05, and make sure xserver-xorg-video-ati is installed
13:53<xChatGnome>themil: it could use my ISP provided speed in to a constant speed while downloading multiple files at a time. right?
13:55<xChatGnome>there is a known difference in speed while its finish on download and try to queue the other one.
13:55<themill>xChatGnome: that would be the same as using your ISP provided speed at a constant speed while downloading a single file at a time. Any mirror will be able to saturate your local connection
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13:55<sreeram>any body fro india
13:56-!-packet [~packet@] has quit []
13:56<xChatGnome>sreeram: i am from india
13:57<Nik05>ok let me take a look towo`
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13:58<xChatGnome>themil: what i am trying to say is, the download speed difference we usually see in a download manager and or in a typical web browser. the synaptic download is like an ordinary web browser like download.
13:58<Nik05>towo` it wants to load the module `fglrx' but that is not here...
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13:58<towo`>Nik05, then delete the xorg.conf
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14:00<Nik05>wtf towo` i moved /etc/X11/xorg.conf to xorg.conf.bak and xserver starts :P
14:00<Nik05>thanks :)
14:00<sreeram>any body from india
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14:01<xChatGnome>sreeram: its 11.30 PM in India. try to get a sleep. :D
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14:01<Nik05>ok im on gnome again :)
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14:02<xChatGnome>Nik05: of course you should, because KDE is ugly!!
14:02<Nik05>i havent used KDE...
14:03<Nik05>look up...
14:03<Nik05>I could not start x server...
14:03<xChatGnome>KDE makes me remeber that old fucckN mswindows. :/
14:04<xChatGnome>nik05: i am not a master, but are you on a very low end machine?
14:05<Nik05>I just didn't knew what i was doing
14:05<Nik05>so i broke xserver
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14:05<themill>xChatGnome: I can't say I believe in most of those download manager crap. They might work if you have a particularly slow web server; the debian mirrors are not.
14:06-!-fabrianchi [] has joined #debian
14:06<xChatGnome>themill: what are you suggesting? add mirrors with the source.list? i am not so clear.. :?
14:06<themill>xChatGnome: no, I'm saying do nothing.
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14:08<xChatGnome>well, i believe downloading multiple files at a time could be better, because sometimes ISP throttle bandwidths, and stuffs like that.
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14:11<xChatGnome>themill: i was talking about my download speed, not the mirror servers, and i was pointing out with my my own ISP.
14:11<houms>i am trying to put cron entry to restart a special service every weekday at 930am. is this correct; 30 09 * * 1-5 /opt/tlx/bin/tlx restart
14:12<themill>xChatGnome: mirror server speed > ISP speed; there's nothing more to think about.
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14:15<marioxcc>how much memory does Debian support with the default kernel and how many CPU, cores?
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14:18<i3ear>Can I get some help ploxyplox?
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14:19<ladoga>xChatGnome: there's a tool that chooses fastest mirror for you, it's called netselect-apt
14:19<ladoga>xChatGnome: though i guess your problem lies elsewhere (ISP)
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14:22<ladoga>!tell xChatGnome about netselect-apt
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14:22<xChatGnome>ladoga: i think that is with the software sources GUI. right? i have tried that. yeah, my download speed vary from 0 to 40 KB rapidly. thats why i thought downloading multiple files could keep the overall download speed at near 40 KB like a constant ratio.
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14:23<Nik05>anyone know something about mplayer?
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14:23<dpkg>Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
14:23<xChatGnome>nik05: yeah i know, my suggestion is VLC.
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14:24<ml|>smplayer is another option
14:24<sney>marioxcc: unlimited cpu cores as far as I know. Memory depends on which cpu architecture you're asking about
14:24<Nik05>when i press f to go to fullscreen it doesnt scale...
14:25<Nik05>it says at original siz
14:25<ladoga>ml|: just mplayer frontend, though a good one
14:25<xChatGnome>sney: in my opinion linux could handle much better wherever windows may handle. :
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14:26<chealer>marioxcc: depends on what you mean by "default kernel". Linux may have limits on memory and cores depending on its configuration
14:26<ml|>ladoga: yep :)
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14:28<Nik05>but nobody knows what to do?
14:28<Nik05>I want fullscreen :P
14:28<ladoga>Nik05: i guess best would be to ask at mplayer irc channel
14:28<Nik05>ok :)
14:28<ladoga>Nik05: they know more about mplayer config
14:28<Nik05>#mplayer on freenode?
14:28<marioxcc>chealer: I mean the kernel shiped with debian
14:28<ladoga>Nik05: i think it has to do with chosen video out option
14:29<xChatGnome>Nik05: whats your problem with VLC ? huh? i bet vlc surely play your video in fullscreen.
14:29<ml|>Nik05: have you tried the -fs option?
14:29<marioxcc>will it support 2 TiB RAM among 8 nodes in a NUMA system like the high end E7?
14:29<xChatGnome>try vlc
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14:29<ladoga>xChatGnome: he asked about mplayer
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14:30<ladoga>Nik05: yes they are at irc.freenode,et #mplayer
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14:31<ladoga>Nik05:, sorry
14:31<Nik05>xChatGnome vlc is not that great...
14:31<Nik05>ladoga im already on freenode ;)
14:31<Nik05>c++ etc.
14:31<chealer>marioxcc: yes, that is vague (Debian "ships" several kernels)
14:32<xChatGnome>marioxcc: if you could then i highly appreciate your installation of debian in your high end machine. and please express your experience in your blog. that might help other humans to do the same.
14:32<marioxcc>xChatGnome: no, I'm just wondering
14:32<xChatGnome>afterall debian is the only universal operating system :D
14:32<ladoga>Nik05: do you use any GUI with mplayer or running from CLI?
14:33<Nik05>im using console
14:33<marioxcc>chealer: right, but is there a difference regarding maximum memory support?
14:34<xChatGnome>marioxcc: as my knowledge, debian should fit any where nicely. as a server or as a workstation and desktop.
14:34<chealer>marioxcc: depending on what one means by "kernel", yes. even looking just at Linux, several configurations support different amounts of RAM
14:34<ladoga>Nik05: you could try using another video output method
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14:34<xChatGnome>chealer: you mean, there could be variation regarding distros, right?
14:35<marioxcc>don't "default linux configuration in Debian" makes sense?
14:35<ladoga>Nik05: ie. mplayer -vo xv -fs <videofile>
14:35<marioxcc>I thought it did, but maybe it's not specfic enough (for AMD64, of course)
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14:36<Nik05>wait is it possible that this problem came when i remove fglrx?
14:36<ladoga>Nik05: thought i think thats the default one
14:36<chealer>xChatGnome: there could be, but what I'm saying is that even under Debian, different Linux configurations allow different amounts of RAM
14:36<ladoga>Nik05: yes it's likely
14:36<sney>I think chealer is referring to the difference in addressable memory among the various 32/64 bit "default" kernels available in debian
14:36<ladoga>Nik05: you might have to choose another video output method for mplayer now
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14:37<sney>most 32-bit kernels stop at about 4GB, except the new testing/sid/backport i686 kernel which supports up to 16GB with PAE
14:37<chealer>marioxcc: that's not really clear. Debian is the "universal OS". for one thing, different architectures use different Linux configurations
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14:37<marioxcc>chealer: that's why I said for AMD64
14:38<marioxcc>I'm aware linux can be configured in different ways, I'm referring to the configuration of linux the default Debian installation in AMD64 has
14:38<chealer>marioxcc: I don't see that you said that...
14:38<xChatGnome>marioxcc: this might help? this belongs with red hat though!
14:38<marioxcc><marioxcc> I thought it did, but maybe it's not specfic enough (for AMD64, of course)
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14:38<Nik05>"It seems there is no Xvideo support for your video card available." ladoga this is what mplayer says...
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14:39<cybersphinx>marioxcc: The default amd64 kernel is configured to support 512 cpus, don't know how much memory. I'd assume however much the amd64 architecture supports.
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14:39<ladoga>Nik05: ok so xv doesn't work after you removed the fglrx driver?
14:39<towo`>Nik05, can you please paste your /var/log/Xorg.0.log?
14:39<marioxcc>cybersphinx: ok, that it is :)
14:39<marioxcc>xChatGnome: indeed
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14:41<ladoga>Nik05: tried any other methods? mplayer -vo help
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14:41<ml|>is that what this means in /boot/config-3.0.0-1-amd64 for example, for max cpu support; CONFIG_NR_CPUS=512 ?
14:41<ladoga>Nik05: that should list all output drivers that you can try
14:41<riley>i resized my partition using lvmresize, and now it is read-only. how do i fix this?
14:42<Nik05>ladoga it says xv X11/Xv
14:42<Nik05>so i think it can still use xv
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14:42<ladoga>Nik05: i think it just means that support for those is compiled in
14:43<ladoga>Nik05: if they work with your video config is another thing
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14:44-!-mode/#debian [+l 522] by debhelper
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14:44<xChatGnome>within 1 hr i will be with mr. SID. whats you have to say?
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14:45<gravity>Good luck
14:45<sney>hold on to your butts
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14:45<sney>and sid/testing support goes to #debian-next, not here
14:45<xChatGnome>sney: what you said?
14:46<ladoga>Nik05: mplayer probably falls back to x11 for output when xv doesn't work
14:46<towo`>[20:39] <towo`> Nik05, can you please paste your /var/log/Xorg.0.log?
14:46<ladoga>Nik05: i just tried and atleast for me mplayer -vo x11 doesn't scale fullscreen
14:46<Nik05>ok towo` but it is really big :p
14:46<ladoga>Nik05: while -vo xv does
14:46<towo`>Nik05, use a pastebin
14:48<xChatGnome>sney: thats ok. i could be here at least for an hour. after that i will go to that channel. :
14:48<sney>alright thanks for sharing
14:48<ladoga>!tell Nik05 about pastebin
14:50<amphi>ladoga: it does if you also have -zoom ;)
14:50<Nik05>yeah using pastebinit
14:50<Nik05>wait a second! :p
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14:52<Nik05>towo` here it is :p
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14:53<towo`>Nik05, do you have firmware-linux-nonfree installed?
14:53-!-Leon_Nardella [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:53<towo`>Nik05, which ati-card you have?
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14:54<towo`>[20:53] <towo`> Nik05, do you have firmware-linux-nonfree installed?
14:55<towo`>Nik05, install it, and also libgl1-mesa-dri
14:55<Nik05>mesa-dri is installed
14:55<towo`>then firmware-linux-nonfree
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14:56<Nik05>ok installed
14:56<towo`>restart x and try mplayer with xv again
14:56<Nik05>do i need to restart and post new log?
14:57<Nik05>how do i restart x?
14:57<Nik05>Ctrl + Alt + del?
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14:57<towo`>if you use a graphical login, /etc/init.d/$dm restart
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14:58<towo`>for $dm set your used dm
14:58<IJS>strg + druck + k
14:58<IJS>strg + print + k
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15:00<Nik05>damn still not working...
15:00<arie>hy all........
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15:02<arie>i like ubuntu 11.10.....
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15:03<amphi>arie: good for you - it has a channel on
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15:04<ladoga>Nik05: i have no clue really :/
15:04<ladoga>Nik05: does -vo gl work for you?
15:05<towo`>it can't work
15:05<Nik05>ladoga -vo gl is not a valid command...
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15:05<towo`>that's normal, since there is no 3d acceleration
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15:06<Nik05>and how do i get that? :P
15:07<towo`>wait for a newer mesa
15:07<ladoga>towo`: is it that DRI is not working?
15:07<towo`>so it is
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15:10<ladoga>Nik05: as stopgap you might use -zoom as amphi implied
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15:11<Nik05>huh -zoom where?
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15:12<ml|>mplayer -zoom ...
15:12<amphi>Nik05: that tends to be a bit cpu intensive, but should work
15:12<amphi>mplayer -vo x11 -zoom blah
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15:14<amphi>Nik05: if things get ugly, you can see if enabling frame dropping helps
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15:14<cybersphinx>Nik05: Maybe you have to reboot after installing the firmware, to make the kernel load it.
15:15<Nik05>ooh lets try :)
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15:16<i3ear>I am trying to get alien to work and it doesn't wanna work, what the hell?
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15:17<Nik05>ok back
15:17<Nik05>new paste after restart
15:17<Nik05>are there any other pastes you need? :P
15:17<Nik05>wow it worked...
15:18<amphi>what 'it'?
15:18<ladoga>cybersphinx: yay :)
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15:19<i3ear>I am trying to install first party flash onto my machine, downloaded it as the rtm so the command I am doing, after cd'ing to the appropriate folder is
15:20<i3ear>sudo alien d- flash.rpm
15:20<i3ear>sudo alien -d flash.rpm
15:20<i3ear>is that right?
15:20<Black_Prince>why do that i3ear ?
15:21<ladoga>Nik05: so it was due to missing firmware?
15:21<i3ear>to get that rpm into a debian package so I can install it on my computer
15:21<Black_Prince>flash can be obtained using debian packaging tools ...
15:21<Nik05>i dont know
15:21<Nik05>maybe just a restart after something...
15:21-!-scrp3l [~scrp3l__@] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
15:21<Nik05>cause why would i need a nonfree firmware?
15:21<Black_Prince>flashplugin-nonfree is the package, located in contrib area of Debian archive.
15:22<sney>because you have hardware that requires it
15:22<ml|>i3ear: /msg dpkg adobe flash
15:23<i3ear>command not found
15:23<Nik05>where are you typing it? :P
15:23<Nik05>!tell i3ear about adobe flash
15:23<Nik05>type it in irc :p
15:23<kinky>i3ear: /msg dpkg flashplugin-nonfree
15:24<kinky>i3ear: repeat this command in the channel
15:24<i3ear>d need an action option
15:24<i3ear>Type dpkg --help for help about installing and deinstalling packages [*];
15:24<i3ear>Use `dselect' or `aptitude' for user-friendly package management;
15:24<i3ear>Type dpkg -Dhelp for a list of dpkg debug flag values;
15:24<i3ear>Type dpkg --force-help for a list of forcing options;
15:24-!-i3ear was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use or /msg dpkg paste]
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15:25<kinky>i3ear: type it here, not in your terminal..
15:25<i3ear>hah sorreh
15:25<ladoga> :)
15:25<i3ear>dpkg adobe flash
15:25<dpkg>Adobe Flash Player is <non-free>. The easiest way to install it is with the flashplugin-nonfree <contrib> package for squeeze and upwards or lenny-backports. There is also a flashplayer-mozilla package in <dmm> (non-free section). WARNING: installing flashplugin-nonfree will NOT automatically keep the plugin updated. Read more on . See also <flash amd64>, <bdo>, <dmm>.
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15:26<i3ear>oh shit thought you were giving me a terminal command
15:26<i3ear>were you?
15:26<ml|>no irc /msg dpkg foo
15:26<amphi>i3ear: the channel bot is yclept dpkg, to avoid confusion
15:26<kinky>i3ear: not really, would be the same output. If you have the contrib repo enabled it would be: aptitude install flashplugin-nonfree
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15:27<i3ear>E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (13: Permission denied)
15:27<i3ear>E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), are you root?
15:27-!-Aleric [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:27<kinky>are you root?
15:27<i3ear>from trying this command
15:28<i3ear>aptitude install flashplugin-nonfree
15:28*Black_Prince wonders why people never read error messages
15:28<i3ear>I think I am, the only account on this computer
15:28<kinky>read the error output
15:28<i3ear>so I should put sudo in front of that?
15:28<i3ear>I tried that with aline
15:28<Black_Prince>sudo :-/
15:28<ml|>su -l
15:28<i3ear>I put in my password and I got an error
15:29<Black_Prince>i3ear, forget about alien. You need to run aptitude command as root ... Even with sudo, or logged in as root, or with su ...
15:29<i3ear>Alright, what is root? is it some hidden account that I can only access in safe mode?
15:30<i3ear>because I think I am misunderstanding what root is
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15:30<Black_Prince>ARgh .... Are you ubuntu user?
15:30<i3ear>nope, pure debian
15:30<kinky>i3ear: root is the one account on your system which has full administration rights..
15:30<Black_Prince>Sorry, wrong question. Were you Ubuntu user?
15:30<i3ear>I only have one account
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15:30<ladoga>!tell i3ear about root
15:30<gravity>Just a total noob. That's ok though, everyone starts somewhere
15:31<Black_Prince>Ubuntu does pretty much stuff to hide enough things from user ...
15:31<Black_Prince>That's why I sometimes hate sudo and synaptic words :-|
15:31*gravity has used sudo on Debian for a long time
15:32*ladoga same here
15:32<kinky>I've wondered forever, why one would use sudo on a single-user setup.
15:32<gravity>kinky: Automatically drops permissions which gives me one less thing to worry about.
15:32<i3ear>whell I only have one accoutn
15:33<i3ear>so this is my root account right?
15:33<ml|>i3ear: type su -l in a terminal
15:33<Nik05>is `xserver-xorg-video-nouveau' only for Nvidia?
15:33<gravity>i3ear: Did the installer not ask you to create a root password in addition to your user account and password?
15:33<amphi>i3ear: type 'whoami' ;)
15:33<Nik05>Cause it is installed here...
15:33<kinky>gravity: ctrl+d after the executed command is not realy hard :o
15:33<gravity>i3ear: It should have done so
15:33<i3ear>here we go
15:33<towo`>Nik05, it is
15:33<ml|>Nik05: yep
15:33<gravity>kinky: It's one more thing. I use Debian to make my life easier.
15:33<Nik05>so i should not have it on my system?
15:34-!-mode/#debian [+l 514] by debhelper
15:34<towo`>Nik05, i would say, you have xserver-xorg-video-aöll installed too
15:34<towo`>* xserver-xorg-video-all
15:34<ml|>^ most likely
15:34<Nik05>no not all
15:34<gravity>Nik05: All drivers are installed by default and the system automatically picks the right one.
15:34<kinky>gravity: so then, what about su -c 'command'?
15:34<gravity>kinky: Yeah, I used that too.
15:34<Nik05>how do i know which i dont need?
15:35<kinky>gravity: in my opinion, sudo makes only sense if used on servers
15:35*gravity shrugs
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15:35<ladoga>Nik05: you can ofcourse remove the packages for drivers that are not used but it doesn't make any practical difference
15:35<Nik05>oh ok
15:35<gravity>kinky: I've never been worried about it. One nice thing is that if you also use Ubuntu there's no context switch between the systems.
15:35<ml|>Nik05: check /var/log/Xorg.0.log to see what you are currently using
15:35<gravity>Or OSX for that matter
15:36<Nik05>ml check my pastebin :P
15:36<ladoga>Nik05: only one video driver is loaded anyways
15:36<towo`>Nik05, you only need -video-ati and -video-radeon
15:36<kinky>gravity: I'm administrating ubuntu servers at work, the only thing that I do is sudo -sH =)
15:36-!-Aleric [] has joined #debian
15:36<ml|>Nik05: I said _you_ check not me ;)
15:36<towo`>Nik05, but i would -video-vesa let installed for fallback
15:37<ml|>^ indeed
15:37<Nik05>ml| and how do i do that? :P
15:37<ml|>by reading that log, but towo` just told you
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15:38<Nik05>ok :)
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15:38*gravity imagines that there's bigger stuff to prune from a standard debian install than a few X video drivers if you're worried about hard drive space
15:39<gravity>Also, I'm kinda partial to having them all installed myself, but I'm biased
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15:39<Nik05>wtf xserver-xorg depends xserver-xorg-video-all .... :S
15:40<ml|>there is, but some like there systems pruned down to the bare essentials
15:40<Nik05>can remove xserver-xorg-video-all
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15:40<gravity>It used to be a recommends
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15:41<gravity>Oh, no, it's the alternative. You can remove it so long as you have a video driver installed.
15:41<gravity>Same as it ever was.
15:41<ml|>Priority: optional
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15:41<Nik05>ok uninstalling xserver-xorg-video-nouveau gives me back 549 kb? :P
15:42<abrotman>gravity!!!! .. i missed you!
15:42<Nik05>that is the hole driver? :P
15:42*abrotman floats around
15:42<gravity>abrotman: :-) Hello!
15:42<ml|>Nik05: make sure you take towo` advice
15:42<gravity>Nik05: Like I said... there's not much in the way of hard drive space savings there. The drivers are puny.
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15:43<gravity>If you're desperate for drive space get rid of big graphical things or large batches of documentation
15:43<Nik05>i thought driver were like 300mb ....
15:43<gravity>And, on a crufty old install, orphaned packages
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15:44<themill>300 millibits isn't worth worrying about
15:44<ladoga>other drivers can be useful if you swap in new hardware or move your system to another box
15:45<gravity>Nik05: Nope. The whole thing is here. Have fun if you want to see how small it really is:
15:45<ladoga>tho i guess it doesn't make much difference way or another
15:45<ladoga>not much work to install/uninstall
15:45<gravity>It's also worth noting that there's other chunks of nouveau in the kernel and mesa that you can't remove so easily.
15:45<gravity>Doesn't amount to much though
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15:45<Nik05>gravity then why does Windows need 300mb drivers...
15:45-!-JanC [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:46<gravity>Nik05: Like each one is 300 mb? Really? I assume you mean graphics drivers...?
15:46<ladoga>Nik05: probably most of it is control panels and such
15:46<Nik05>dont know :P
15:46<ladoga>Nik05: or whatever random software bundled with the driver
15:47<gravity>Nik05: My answer would be that on windows they bundle things like their 3d architecture, which is big. The X11 nvidia driver is huge too. On linux we have mesa as a common architecture that's got a lot of that weight. Mesa can be a bit big, although not nearly so huge without debugging symbols.
15:47<gravity>We also put some stuff in the kernel too, though that's not the heavy part
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15:48<towo`>the X11 fglrx is big too ;)
15:48<gravity>300 bm seems excessive though
15:48<Nik05>gravity `Display Driver' on ATI size is 75.7 MB
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15:48*gravity is glad he doesn't worry too much about the windows graphics architecture
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15:49<Davidt>is sum1 here?
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15:49<towo`>Nik05, ifglrx for win isn't 300 MiB
15:49<Lantizia>Debian makes a standard user for you that belongs to these groups... cdrom,floppy,audio,dip,video,plugdev
15:49<towo`>Nik05, its "only" 92.3 MiB
15:49<Davidt>some1 plz help me?
15:49<Nik05>ok 300mb was a little over.... :P
15:50<Lantizia>If I was to remake this user, and this system is only a CLI-only server... which of those groups would be useful?
15:50<ml|>Davidt: just ask
15:50<Lantizia>i.e. can I do without video, audio, dip and plugdev?
15:50<Davidt>ohhh its debian
15:50<Lantizia>i'm guessing plugdev is for gnome only?
15:50<Davidt>i thout it windos
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15:52<Davidt>im cold
15:52<Davidt>and sick
15:52*Davidt hugs ml|
15:52<Lantizia>In other words... which of these groups could you do without if your user was for CLI use -only-... "cdrom,floppy,audio,dip,video,plugdev"
15:52<Nik05>towo` it is not 92.3 MB but 75.7 MB :P
15:52<Nik05>92MB is catalyst stuff
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15:54<gravity>Lantizia: For normal users? Probably don't let them have access to cdrom, floppy, audio. I'd test video, since it provides access to the framebuffer and I'm not sure how that would get used in your case. Don't know about dip or plugdev.
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15:55<ml|>Lantizia: the Debian refernce can help you decide ...
15:55<Lantizia>I'm thinking no need for these... audio,dip,video,plugdev
15:55<gravity>Oh, ml|'s answer is waaaaay better than mine. Good find.
15:55<Lantizia>I want the user to be able to handle cd's and floppies though
15:56<Lantizia>but audio (isn't this OSS only?), webcams, dialup and plugdev (is this for pmount / gnome / hal only?)
15:56<gravity>On a server?
15:56<Lantizia>yeah, totally cli only no X11
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16:05<freestate>hi there
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16:13<c1>how can i hide my ip
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16:14<wompa>c1, where? Irc?
16:14<ml|>he left ;)
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16:16<wompa>Now he will never know.
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16:30<joshthetechie>why does aptitude ignore certain repos?
16:30<peterS>joshthetechie: what repos?
16:31<peterS>check 'apt-cache policy {packagename}' and see what apt itself thinks of the repository in question
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16:32<joshthetechie>peterS: It's ignoring squeeze/updates/main Translation-en among many others
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16:33<peterS>joshthetechie: files like Translation-en don't always show up as getting updates, as they are maintained separately from the actual archive indexes
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16:33<joshthetechie>But why do I get this error: E: Some index files failed to download, they have been ignored, or old ones used instead.
16:34<ebkd>i get the well known "fg: no job control" error when i source but not when i simply paste into the console
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16:34<peterS>whichever files failed to download, we can be fairly sure it isn't talking about Translations-en
16:35<ebkd>could someone please explain why i get this error
16:35<joshthetechie>peterS: is there a way I can show you in the chat what files it is ignoring?
16:35<ebkd>i'm sure it's a known issue
16:36<peterS>joshthetechie: well, start with just 'apt-get update' from a command line. in my experience, apt-get gives better error messages in cases like yours
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16:36<ebkd>peterS: better than dpkg?
16:36-!-phdeswer [] has joined #debian
16:36<peterS>ebkd: better than aptitude
16:36<ebkd>peterS: or you meant better than what?
16:36<ebkd>and i thought aptitude was the best :)
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16:37<peterS>it's the best interface. it isn't necessarily the best backend, for various things
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16:37<ebkd>i also really thought it was a backend superset of apt-get
16:37<joshthetechie>peterS: here is what it's telling me: "N: Ignoring file '' in directory '/etc/apt/sources.list.d/' as it has an invalid filename extension W: Failed to fetch 404 Not Found [IP: 80] E: Some index files failed to download, they have been ignored, or old ones used instead."
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16:39<peterS>joshthetechie: "404 Not Found" is the interesting bit
16:39<joshthetechie>peterS: okay
16:39<peterS>I note is one of the several IPs in rotation as ''. I suppose it's out of sync at the moment, or something
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16:41<joshthetechie>but this has been going on since last night when I changed the /etc/apt/sources.list file
16:42<peterS>joshthetechie: wait, did you say squeeze/updates/main ? It should be 'squeeze/updates main' after the security url. three words.
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16:43<joshthetechie>peterS: yes I did
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16:44<peterS>joshthetechie: deb squeeze/updates main
16:44<peterS>that's what it should look like. if it doesn't ... fix it (:
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16:46<joshthetechie>peterS: I had it as deb squeeze/updates main contrib
16:46<peterS>yeah that's fine
16:47<peterS>joshthetechie: ah but what I see from your error message is there, not
16:47<joshthetechie>am I always going to get some sort of error when I run the update manager?
16:48<peterS>joshthetechie: 'squeeze/updates' is only on, not
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16:49<joshthetechie>on is have it set as deb squeeze-updates main
16:49<joshthetechie>and deb-src squeeze-updates main
16:49<peterS>joshthetechie: drop the "-updates" from the lines
16:50<peterS>should just be {deb or deb-src} squeeze main
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16:50<joshthetechie>okay...just dropped the "-updates" from the lines. Just do a sudo apt-get update now?
16:52<joshthetechie>can I put on here what I have listed on the sources.list file?
16:52<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: or for pics. Use for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>, <>.
16:52<peterS>if you just have one or two lines, that'd be ok for pasting here
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16:53<mib_f6umdf>hi can I ask a question
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16:54<ebkd>peterS: any known differences between sourcing a script and simply pasting it in the console (that might help me find a solution to my problem above)?
16:54<ebkd>mib_f6umdf: yes
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16:55<peterS>ebkd: you say the shell complained about job control. Yes, job control is an interactive feature and mostly not available to scripts. talking about things like the 'jobs' command, and 'fg %2'
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16:55<mib_f6umdf>I've downloaded libreoffice from the official site. Can anybody tell me hoe to add KDE integration??
16:55<peterS>joshthetechie: I note lines 11 through 14 are just a repeat of earlier lines
16:56<joshthetechie>peterS: so just delete those?
16:56<peterS>joshthetechie: sure. also, though, line 9 is wrong, should be
16:56<sney>mib_f6umdf: you should install libreoffice from backports, that way menu integration and updates will happen automatically
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16:58<joshthetechie>peterS: I'm still having issues. I have to go now, but I will come back later and see if I can get help then. :)
16:59<joshthetechie>peterS: Thanks for your help so far!
16:59<peterS>joshthetechie: changing the hostname on line 9 will probably solve your entire problem. but just fyi, if you use debian source packages at all, you may as well make line 9 identical to line 8 (i.e., add 'contrib' to the end) except for deb-src instead of deb
16:59<mib_f6umdf>thangs for ur reply but how can I install it from backports
16:59<ebkd>peterS: thank you for your confirmation. i just needed to bg (&) a command in order to get its pid (so as to use it in another command) and then i wanted to fg it back. what other method would you have used?
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16:59<sney>mib_f6umdf: for instructions on using backports, then just install it with synaptic/aptitude/apt-get like anything else
16:59<peterS>ebkd: the 'fg' is the problem. that's job control. what you probably want instead is the 'wait' shell builtin command
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17:00<mib_f6umdf>Thanks so much
17:00<joshthetechie>peterS: okay...thanks I'll look at that later
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17:00<ebkd>peterS: oh right, forgot about that one
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17:01<peterS>ebkd: 'man bash' describes it. you probably want 'wait' without any arguments.
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17:02<ebkd>peterS: what did you mean by "%2" or even "2" itself in your example, "fg %2"?
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17:02<peterS>ebkd: again, job control (: at an interactive prompt, if you have more than one job in the background, you can list them with "jobs". Then you can refer to an individual one with %1, %2, %3, etc.
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17:03<peterS>ebkd: bg, fg, and kill all accept "%1" in place of a process ID
17:03<ebkd>thanks. as for the "2" itself, that was an arbitrarily chosen example, right? :)
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17:04<peterS>ebkd: it's an identifier assigned by the shell. as I said, 'jobs' lists them.
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17:04<ebkd>peterS: thank you
17:04<peterS>if you start a job when there aren't any other jobs running, it gets %1. if %1 is taken, it gets %2. etc.
17:04<peterS>in fact, you can just type %2 as shorthand for fg %2
17:04<peterS>I do that a lot
17:05<ebkd>oh, never tried that :)
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17:05<peterS>and you can use fg as shorthand for 'fg the current default job, the one that has a + after the [n] in the "jobs" output'
17:06<peterS>anyway, the takeaway point here is, %1 %2 %3 and everything that relates to them is strictly an interactive feature, so in scripts you want to use 'wait' instead of 'fg'.
17:06<ebkd>oh, that was a whole lesson. thanks for your patience. :)
17:06<peterS>no problem (:
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17:07<peterS>job control is, I'm sure, confusing to many people. if you look under the hood (how it is implemented on unix kernels), it gets even more confusing! (:
17:07<ebkd>i see there's practically no difference between wait and fg
17:07<ebkd>i wouldn't even dare to do that ;)
17:07<peterS>well, 'wait' without any parameters ends up waiting for _all_ your background jobs
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17:08<ebkd>good to know. i could have assumed it only applied to the latest one.
17:08<peterS>if you want to know the process ID of your most recent '&' command (in a script or interactively), use the $! variable. thus you can say mypid=$! and then later, 'wait $mypid' - even if there might be other jobs started since then
17:08<ebkd>ah so it takes pids as arguments
17:10<peterS>hmmm, I see $! runs afoul of other bash syntax, interactively, but you can work around it with 'eval'. The following test shows what I mean: sleep 5 & eval 'mypid=$!'; sleep 60 & wait $mypid
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17:10<peterS>the 'wait $mypid' just waits 5 seconds and you have another prompt. the sleep 60, which is %2, is still going.
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17:11<ebkd>peterS: i don't really understand what you meant, but can it be fixed by using "${!}" instead of "$!"?
17:12<peterS>why yes, ${!} works around it too
17:12<ebkd>i'm not familiar with "afoul of"
17:12<ebkd>just the language
17:12<peterS>anyway, notice how you get a shell prompt back after 5 seconds, but then if you type 'jobs' you can see that job %2, sleep 60, is still going
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17:13<ebkd>because i used the pid
17:13<peterS>and if you have 'set -o notify', which I always do, you will be told exactly when job %2 finishes, rahter than bash waiting for next time it's about to print a prompt for you
17:13<peterS>(without 'set -o notify', bash chooses not to interrupt you with such information except when it's about to print a prompt.)
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17:14<ebkd>peterS: where do i get a full list of the shell options, preferably withing the man system?
17:14<ebkd>(yes, i noticed that and i hate it)
17:14<peterS>ebkd: 'man bash' is extremely long and extremely detailed.
17:14<peterS>anyway, 'set -o' will at least list those options, if not explain what they actually do
17:14<ebkd>i'm afraid i could never find a shell options section
17:14<ebkd>in man bash
17:15<ebkd>and can i use them in that format ("ignoreeof", "physical", "posix", etc.)?
17:15<peterS>it's in there. do 'man bash' and then type /allexport in less and it will find that
17:15<peterS>then scroll up a couple of lines and there you go
17:16<MrFrood>ebkd: what options are you looking for? (nost are ddetailed in setion for 'set' in the man page
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17:16<ebkd>i just tried "help set"
17:16<ebkd>it's good reference
17:16<peterS>ah, indeed, I guess that's got pretty much the same text
17:16-!-ring0 [] has joined #debian
17:17*MrFrood just spent the last few days with the ksh man page :|
17:17<ebkd>peterS, MrFrood: i want to find a way to make the shell stop showing the ip of a bg'ed binary
17:17<peterS>the ... IP?
17:17-!-floe [] has joined #debian
17:18<ebkd>i meant pid
17:18<peterS>I don't know if that can be turned off. it is automatically turned off if the shell is not interactive, of course, since it's a job control feature
17:18<ebkd>peterS: iirc, not even that turns it off
17:19<ebkd>still, how do i do it? i'd like to test it again
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17:19<peterS>ebkd: if you want to _not_ track a given bg job using job control at all, one simple way is to wrap it in a shell invocation: sh -c 'sleep 5 &'
17:19<peterS>ebkd: the subshell that you run with sh -c is not interactive, so it won't print any job control stuff
17:19<peterS>it'll return immediately and as far as your current shell is concerned, there's nothing left to track
17:20<ebkd>that's a very good workaround
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17:20<peterS>so, like, if you say sh -c 'sleep 12345 &', then the only way to see how the sleep command is coming along is something like 'ps x | grep 12345'
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17:21<peterS>if you want to start a bg job but then tell the shell to _stop_ tracking the job, after the fact, use the job control command 'disown'
17:21<ebkd>yes. it's great.
17:21-!-soke [] has quit []
17:21<peterS>like other job commands, disown takes parameters like %1
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17:22<ebkd>the shell still gets to show me the pid
17:22<ebkd>right before running disown, i guess
17:22<peterS>yeah - I don't know if that can be disabled. assuming you're in an interactive shell and thus you have job control at all.
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17:22<ebkd>what if i disable job control? it won't even bg (&) it, right?
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17:23<ebkd>on the other hand, isn't it covered by "notify" or something similar?
17:23<peterS>you can still use &, it just doesn't track background jobs
17:23<ebkd>then let me test that
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17:23<peterS>thus, you can't later 'fg' something, etc.
17:23<ebkd>do i use set -m?
17:24<ebkd>oh, actually its opposite
17:24<ebkd>what's the opposite of "set -m"?
17:24<peterS>it would be 'set +m', but it appears (from testing just now) that -m is one of those things you can't enable/disable at runtime
17:24-!-dreamer000 [~dreamer@] has joined #debian
17:24<ebkd>i thought so, so it's not working
17:24<peterS>you have to invoke the shell originally with the -m flag
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17:25<peterS>hmmm. now it looks like 'bash -i +m' does not work either. I'm not sure why not.
17:26<ebkd>"bash +m" doesn't disable job control
17:26<peterS>(the -i ensures that it is still an 'interactive' shell, i.e., readline, command history, printing a prompt, etc.)
17:26<ebkd>can it be that the opposite of "-m" happens (just for this one) not to be "+m"?
17:27<peterS>hmmmph. I don't even see -m in the 'man bash' list at the top of parameters it accepts
17:27<ebkd>and, btw, how does one even use an opened non-interactive shell?
17:27<MrFrood>- enables, + disables
17:28<ebkd>MrFrood: yeah, just hoping for an exception explaining why it wasn't working :)
17:28<MrFrood>non-interactive is for say running a script
17:28<ebkd>oh, that only
17:28<ebkd>now it makes sense
17:29<ebkd>why would i ever need to specify that?
17:29<peterS>huh ... 'set +m' does have _some_ effect. it's like the opposite of 'set -o notify' only more so: you don't get notified of your job ending _at all_.
17:29<MrFrood>one thing to be aware of with non-interactive is that trackall is enabledd by default
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17:29<peterS>but it still tracks the job by printing its status when you first start it, and in the 'jobs' output.
17:30<ebkd>MrFrood: what's trackall?
17:30<MrFrood>tracks aliases and such
17:30<peterS>do you mean hashall?
17:31<ebkd>man -k trackall won't show anything
17:31<MrFrood>might just be a ksh feature :-/
17:31-!-ring1 [] has joined #debian
17:31<peterS>ah yeah, ksh has a -o trackall, bash does not
17:31<ebkd>is ksh some sort of bash for bsd?
17:31<peterS>bash just has -o hashall
17:31<peterS>ksh is the Korn Shell written by David Korn back in the 80s
17:32<peterS>bash was originally something of a ksh clone
17:32<ebkd>who prefers ksh?
17:32<ebkd>and what is it better at?
17:32<peterS>ksh has been shipped on traditional unix systems since it first came out in 1988
17:32<MrFrood>ksh korn shell, was commerically licensed - bash started out as an opensource project of a similar nature
17:32<peterS>people on linux almost always have bash available and most linux people prefer bash
17:32<ebkd>so it seems i guessed right: it's preferred on the bsds
17:33<MrFrood>both are now open source
17:33-!-helty [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:33<MrFrood>(in ksh's case with several versions)
17:33<peterS>these days, ksh is free software, so it's even in debian, but until relatively recently, you mainly found it on traditional unix systems (and Microsoft Windows, from their Services For Unix package)
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17:34<peterS>the main reason to care about ksh is that the POSIX shell standard is largely based on it. so if you wonder if such-and-such syntax is legal in POSIX shell, a pretty good way to find out is to try it in ksh (specifically ksh88, not the newer ksh93)
17:35<MrFrood>debian has iir pdksh (ksh88 clone) mksh ("improved" fork of pdksh) and ksh93
17:35<ebkd>would i ever need to *specify* that i want the shell to be non-interactive, or is it always enough to run it with an executable path argument?
17:35<peterS>(ksh93 has other interesting features, like floating point math - other shells have very primitive math functions that are strictly integers)
17:35-!-nickb_ [] has joined #debian
17:35<peterS>ebkd: if you run a shell using -c 'command' or with a script filename, it will be noninteractive by default
17:35<ebkd>peterS: but doesn't bash support posix mode?
17:36<MrFrood>ksh93 is my shell of choice
17:36-!-ring0 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:36<peterS>MrFrood: a fan of coprocesses, are you
17:36<peterS>(speaking of job control fun!)
17:36<MrFrood>on occasion
17:36<ebkd>MrFrood: why do you prefer an older standard?
17:36<sney>because he's older than time itself
17:37<MrFrood>just what I'm usedd to, I came to linux via the bsd's
17:37<ebkd>what is the connection between ksh and coprocesses?
17:37<peterS>ebkd: well, ksh93 is an update to ksh88 (those represent non-y2k-compliant years, if you can't tell), and yes, ksh93 has some useful features in it
17:37<ebkd>sney: :)
17:37-!-jskains [] has joined #debian
17:37<peterS>ebkd: ksh supports coprocesses, most other shells don't.
17:37<chealer>thanks themill. I found a bug report about my Iceweasel session restore problem:
17:37<ebkd>peterS: most, and not including bash, right? in other words, i want to believe bash is good enough for me :D
17:38<jskains>For some reason, winbind is extremely flaky, often not getting all the info or firing up fast enough that the X login can see the names.
17:38<MrFrood>bash is a fine shell
17:38<jskains>I am using 11.10
17:38<ebkd>i meant: most don't but not including bash
17:38-!-jespada [~jespada@] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
17:39<sney>!ubuntuirc jskains
17:39<dpkg>jskains: This is not the Ubuntu help channel. Please do /server and then /join #ubuntu. If you are using XChat, you can right-click the following link and choose connect. irc://
17:39<MrFrood>jskains: try #unbuntu on freenode
17:39<jskains>Ack... It also happens on Squeeze though. :)
17:40<sney>(also, most things having to do with windows networking are flaky by nature)
17:40<jskains>I actually just loaded Ubuntu to see if I got different results.
17:41<ebkd>jskains: too late. we caught you.
17:42-!-superposi [~david@] has joined #debian
17:42<superposi>buenas noches a tod@s
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17:43<jskains>Are people using Debian as their primary desktop? I use Debian for servers, but they are making desktops Ubuntu standard... How well is Debian as a desktop?
17:44<MrFrood>jskains: lots of people use debian as desktops
17:44<gravity>jskains: Depends on your needs of course, but it's worked for me for years
17:45<gravity>It also depends on your skillset I suppose
17:45-!-marco [] has joined #debian
17:45<MrFrood>I think you will probably find that the DE's in Debian are less tweaked than unbuntu and closer to the upstream sources
17:46<jskains>My problem is Ubuntu seems to be moving away from Xen, which is a huge issue for me.
17:47-!-rzyz [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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17:49<superposi>alguien sabe de algun programa de mensajeria en el que funcione msn? pidgin..empathy...gracias
17:49-!-marco [] has quit []
17:49<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
17:50<superposi>o sorry
17:50-!-Canton [] has joined #debian
17:51<superposi>with program could i use for conect me by msn protocol?
17:51<superposi>thank u
17:51<dpkg>The .NET Messenger Service (formerly MSN Messenger Service) is an instant messaging and presence system by Microsoft, using the Microsoft Notification Protocol (MSNP). To connect using a Debian system, ask me about <amsn>, <bitlbee>, <centerim>, <emesene>, <empathy>, <kopete>, <licq> or <pidgin>. All <Jabber> clients can communicate by using a MSN transport. Note that MSNP performs no content encryption.
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17:52<superposi>ok thank u dpkg, but i have squeeze and pidgin empathy amsn and emesene dont work well with msn
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17:53<MrFrood>superposi: check backports
17:53-!-michael is now known as Guest13978
17:53<superposi>thank MrFrood ;-)
17:54-!-mode/#debian [+l 520] by debhelper
17:54<jskains>There are a lot of channels in the IRC world filled with people... All saying nothing.
17:54<jskains>Then there are some channels you can't get a single word in.
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17:56<peterS>ebkd: bottom line: I don't think bash supports coprocesses. and its math functions are still just integer-based, no floating point like ksh93. But those are the only two things I can think of that ksh has that I might ever want. In practice, I get along without coprocesses and decimal numbers just fine.
17:57-!-superposi [~david@] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
17:57<peterS>ebkd: sometimes I do wish for coprocesses, but if you've never used them before, you might never miss them
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17:57<ebkd>one can use bc anyway
17:58<MrFrood>peterS: have not gnu got a seperate package out now for handling co-processors..?
17:58-!-DrGkill [] has quit []
17:58<peterS>MrFrood: errr? coprocesses, not coprocessors. two similar words that mean entirely different things
17:58<ebkd>then i guess i don't know what a coprocess is
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17:59<peterS>ebkd: a coprocess is where you start a background job yet be able to feed it input, or read its output, whenever you want
17:59-!-kriller_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:59<ebkd>do they still use math coprocessors??
17:59<MrFrood>/ignore me
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18:00<MrFrood>brain went on a serious wander for a minute - needd a fresh cup of tea :|
18:00<dpkg>marco: e possibile scaricare un sacco di software libero con
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18:00<peterS>ebkd: think of a pipeline: do_some_foo | tr 'x' 'y' | while read line; do echo "got aanother line from tr: $line"; done
18:00<ebkd>peterS: i thought that was possible in bash; i am feeding mplayer some commands over a pipe
18:01<peterS>ebkd: with a coprocess, you can set up the do_some_foo | tr 'x' 'y' but not immediately pipe it into your while loop
18:01<peterS>but instead, put those 'read $line' anywhere you want
18:01<marco>XDCC|OCEAN|DIVX52 xdcc send #5
18:01<ebkd>that can be very useful
18:01<ebkd>and how would you "emulate" it in bash?
18:02<themill>marco: wrong channel
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18:02<peterS>and the pipeline you've set up as your coprocess will just run in the background and produce output for you when you want it
18:02<peterS>_that_ is the feature ksh has that bash does not. (though I'm not sure. maybe recent versions of bash have added coprocess support. I'm not really up to date.)
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18:03<peterS>you would emulate it with named pipes
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18:04-!-mode/#debian [+l 513] by debhelper
18:04<peterS>create a named pipe with 'mkfifo'. then run your background job as do_some_foo | tr 'x' 'y' > $fifo &
18:04<peterS>then, say, exec 4< $fifo
18:04<peterS>and then 'read $line <&4'
18:04<peterS>(picking file descriptor number 4 out of thin air here)
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18:05<peterS>note 'exec 4< $fifo' means to open file descriptor 4 for reading. you can close it later with 'exec 4<&-'
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18:06<ebkd>is $fifo a builtin variable?
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18:06<peterS>ebkd: no, it's just an example: the path to the named file you created. the filename you passed into the 'mkfifo' command.
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18:07<ebkd>oh right
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18:07<ebkd>i think nobody explained pipes to me better than you
18:07<ebkd>examples are very helpful
18:07<MrFrood>ebkd: most shells have really good man pages
18:07<ebkd>the manual makes it too theoretical
18:08<ebkd>MrFrood: then i guess i should switch to ksh :P
18:08<peterS>ebkd: only if you need that feature in your scripts and are willing to force anyone who wants to run your scripts to install ksh (:
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18:08<peterS>coprocesses are not something I would use very much interactively, so it'd mainly be for scripts
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18:09<peterS>maybe I'd find an occasional use for them on an interactive command line, but I doubt it
18:09<MrFrood>ebkd: test ddriving a few shells can make a fun weekend project
18:10<MrFrood>mksh also has Co-Processes
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18:10<ebkd>peterS: i don't think i remember you answering this: why did you recommend ksh for posix testing when bash supports posix mode? is the bash posix mode not good enough?
18:10<ebkd>MrFrood: what's mksh?
18:11<peterS>ebkd: bash supports extra stuff even in posix mode. the main thing about bash posix mode is to account for actual behavior differences between bash and posix. not to disallow extra features.
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18:12<MrFrood>one of the flavours of ksh available for debian, it is a fork of pdksh that is still undder active development
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18:12<peterS>ebkd: anyway, I don't normally use ksh even for posix mode testing. I usually use dash for that. I know dash has a few non-posix features, but I've been around long enough to know what they are. if I have any doubts, I then run the same thing in 'posh', a shell that is _specifically_ designed to be posix only
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18:13<ebkd>peterS: "posh" :) is posh based on bash?
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18:14<peterS>ebkd: no. I don't know if it's based on any other codebase or just written from scratch
18:14<peterS>ebkd: ahh. 'apt-cache show posh' explains where it comes from
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18:34<dan_>ih i have a sound blaster live sound card and i can't get the mic to work on ubuntn 11.10 help
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18:35<ebkd>dan_: this is for debian users
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18:36<MrFrood>#unbuntu on freenode
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18:46-!-mode/#debian [-q *!*@] by ChanServ
18:46-!-mode/#debian [-q *!*@] by ChanServ
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18:49<ikr11>hi, could someone point me in the right direction? Which is a good linux distro as a base install for virtualization?
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18:50<abrotman>ikr11: you're in #debian .. what do you think we'll say?
18:51<dpkg>methinks rulesuck is a graph at which reflects the net opinion on different Linux distributions and operating systems.
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18:53<abrotman>Bushmills: calculated how ?
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18:53<Bushmills>description, or (bash) source?
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18:54<ikr11>abrotman, you're right, I've heard that Vbox Linux drivers are not that good any alternatives that don't make me spend more than a day learning new stuff?
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18:55-!-mode/#debian [+o themill] by ChanServ
18:55-!-mode/#debian [-qqqq *!*@ *!*@ *!*@ *!*@] by themill
18:55-!-mode/#debian [-qqqq *!* *!*@ *!*@ *!*] by themill
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18:55-!-mode/#debian [-o themill] by themill
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18:58<abrotman>Bushmills: uhm ... not really what i meant .. bu tokay
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18:59<abrotman>Bushmills: and if that's yours .. it seems to not be "by month"
19:00<Bushmills>the plugin produces output every 5 minutes. it is rrdtool which is called to produce daily, weekly, monthly and yearly graphs
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19:02<Bushmills>ah, "plugin" as in "plugin for munin", a network monitoring system
19:04<Bushmills>yearly graph looks a bit wildish:
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19:06<Knorrie>debian rules!
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19:08<ebkd>is this the main/official irc channel for debian?
19:08<themill>fsvo official
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19:08<peterS>'for some version of'
19:08<rudi_s>Ah, thanks.
19:09<themill>s/version/value/ as appropriate
19:09<peterS>ebkd: _used_ to point to this was changed several years ago, but even so, there's still a very large and active #debian on
19:10<themill>with the same ops, same bots, (mostly) the same helpers and (usually) the same spammers and trolls
19:10<peterS>given point here ( now, you might say this is official, but in practice, for #debian itself, we support both networks about equally
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19:12<jla>Hi I need some program similar to rdesc for download for megaupload somebody can help me
19:13<jla>I am using pinguy os
19:13<timmy>how do add your name to the sudoers file
19:13<themill>jla: you want #pinguyos on
19:13<themill>timmy: "adduser timmy sudo"
19:13<timmy>thank you
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19:14<timmy>adduser no command found
19:15<themill>timmy: what sort of debian is this?
19:15<MrFrood>timmy: as root
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19:15<timmy>debian 6
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19:15<abrotman>have to be root
19:16<timmy>it says need to add to sudoer file
19:16<MrFrood>why not?
19:16<floomp>use su first
19:16<MrFrood>timmy: use su
19:16<themill>timmy: "su -" then give the passwd you gave at install time
19:17-!-groove [] has joined #debian
19:17<timmy>k it worked thx
19:18<timmy>it didnt work
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19:19<floomp>timmy: you need to log out and back in to get the group change to apply
19:19<babilen>timmy: You have to give the root password, not your user's after "su -"
19:19-!-dardevelin_ [] has joined #debian
19:19<babilen>timmy: Or rather: What exactly didn't work?
19:19<dardevelin_>hi everyone
19:19<timmy>ah ok
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19:20<dardevelin_>does anyone can explain me how to get gtk engine pixmap ?
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19:20<dardevelin_>some themes are requesting it and i have absolutely no idea on how to get it ( tried on the repository and didn't found nothing
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19:21<floomp>dardevelin_: apt-get install gtk2-engines-pixbuf ?
19:21<Zomb>dardevelin_: explain "requesting"
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19:22<MrFrood>Zomb: it's a gtk theme engine
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19:23<dardevelin_>floomp, that package is installed
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19:23<floomp>dardevelin_: what's saying that you need it? gnome appearance properties?
19:24<dardevelin_>Zomb, yes, it says that the theme
19:24<dardevelin_>wont display properly
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19:25<dardevelin_>This theme will not look as intended because the required GTK+ theme engine 'pixmap' is not installed
19:25<Zomb>well, see floomp then
19:26<dardevelin_>Zomb, its already installed tough :/
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19:26<floomp>dardevelin_: i actually have the same problem, it just started happening recently
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19:27<Zomb>dardevelin_: see there, the first hit explains it. Some fuckage with gtk configuration which you need to fix.
19:27-!-adi [~adi@2001:470:b471:0:f4fd:3de:dff7:4be4] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
19:27<dardevelin_>Zomb, ok :D thanks i'm on it now :D
19:28-!-timmy [] has joined #debian
19:28<timmy>how do u add debian testing repos to source
19:28<floomp>Zomb: i don't think that's it, 'engine ""' isn't found in my theme's gtkrc at all
19:29<timmy>so this way debian has more update software?
19:29<abrotman>timmy: please us stable for awhile til you get used to doing stuff .. testing can and will break
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19:30<timmy>i been a linux user since early 2010
19:30<timmy>just new to debian been using mint
19:30<abrotman>i've been a linux user since uh .. the 90s
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19:31<abrotman>if you need your linux box to work .. you'd be wise not to use testing until it gets closer to release
19:31<abrotman>especially if you're fairly new to how Debian/.deb packaging works
19:31<Zomb>floomp: maybe. I would go the hard way (strace, grep) to find what it's looking for before displaying this message.
19:31<abrotman>timmy: We obviously can't stop you .. just give you fair warning
19:32<timmy>im running debian in a vm
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19:32<Zomb>timmy: man sources.list
19:32<abrotman>!tell timmy about squeeze->wheezy
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19:33<viktor>Does anyone know how the change the default mouse polling rate in debian with a 3.* kernel?
19:33<timmy>how hazs linux evolved since the 90s
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19:34<abrotman>we now have a backspace key to fix typos
19:34<Zomb>timmy: oh dear, it has been a different time
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19:34<abrotman>timmy: you can try to find out if you have a VM .. search around for Debian 2.1 images .. and good luck with that :)
19:34<timmy>i hope windows didnt dominate it
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19:35<Zomb>*g* but don't forget to configure VM hardware to very old system type
19:35<abrotman>100Mb? what's that?
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19:35<floomp>Zomb: hmm, did that, it's looking for /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/engines/ seems to be the wrong path, because there should only be one arch triplet in there
19:35<Zomb>Plug-and-Play? "pass all your IRQs to this modprobe line" haha
19:35<timmy>my soucres.list is read only
19:35<abrotman>timmy: you could try to do it in a VM, but you might have a hard time with just basic functionality .. it depends on what the VM emulates
19:35<timmy>how do i chane it to be able to rea and write
19:35<abrotman>timmy: you edit it as root
19:36<abrotman>or with sudo
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19:36<timmy>ah o
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19:36<themill>timmy: perhaps you should stick with stable...
19:36*abrotman thinks this might be an interesting experiment
19:36<abrotman>not timmy .. the VM :)
19:36<themill>abrotman: an experiment on timmy?
19:36<dardevelin_>actually doesn't have any pixmap
19:36<dardevelin_>on the file
19:37<dardevelin_>still reading the page
19:37<timmy>did gnome exists back then?
19:37<timmy>in the 90s
19:37<Zomb>floomp: no idea. Maybe there is some fallback path resolution code which is buggy now. Maybe it does not cope with multi-arch changes for some reason.
19:37<abrotman>timmy: it may have just started ..
19:37<timmy>everything before gnome 3 is usuable
19:37<viktor>Does anyone know how the change the default mouse polling rate in debian with a 3.* kernel?
19:37<Zomb>floomp: but I would consider reporting it. Looks buggy, definitely.
19:37<abrotman>usuable eh ?
19:37<abrotman>timmy: gnome was started in the late 90s ..
19:38<abrotman>so if you install slink .. you might have gnome 1.x
19:38<Zomb>gnome was totally different by that time. It was really fast even with less than 64mb RAM.
19:38<abrotman>maybe .. big maybe
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19:38<abrotman>lots of things were different
19:38<floomp>Zomb: yeah, i agree. any idea how to find out which package has the bug? not sure if it's just gnome-control-center itself or one of the gtk libs
19:39<timmy>i like kde without its glossiness
19:40<timmy>wowgot a bunch of errors
19:41<timmy>all wells
19:41<timmy>i cant stand ubuntu
19:41<timmy>especially 11.10
19:41<timmy>whos on debian testing her
19:41<viktor>I am
19:41<floomp>Zomb: then there's the fact that this is gnome 2 with the bug, gnome 3 probably doesn't have it since it has a different theme setup
19:42<timmy>can you pastie your sources.list on pastie
19:42<viktor>can't stand unity and what ubuntu has become
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19:42<dardevelin_>timmy, i am
19:42<Zomb>floomp: I don't know, if the problem appears with any gtk application (like, gvim) then it's a gtk problem
19:43-!-boba [] has quit [Quit: boba]
19:43<themill>timmy: if you can't work this out from the information you've already been given, you really should stick to stable, for all our sakes.
19:43<timmy>can one of you paste you sources.list file on pastie
19:43<dardevelin_>timmy, i upgraded from squeez, but hey have a look at this cause its always usefull
19:43<Zomb>floomp: but I have not looked at how themes work in the last three years so I cannot give any proper hint, sorry
19:43<dardevelin_>sources list generator
19:43<themill>dardevelin_: please don't give people that site
19:43<themill>timmy: please don't use debgen.
19:43<dardevelin_>themill, why? whats wrong ?
19:43<timmy>why not and what is it
19:44<themill>All it does is encourage people to mix releases and a pile of 3rd party repos together and then come crying to #debian when the entire thing breaks.
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19:44<Zomb>timmy: please, listen to themill. Your lack of essential knowledge is apparent, you won't have much fun doing the changes you imagine.
19:44<floomp>Zomb: alright, that's fine, thanks
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19:48<rjsalts>Bushmills: doesn't debian get a boost because of the debian/rules files being indexed by google?
19:48<timmy>did i disconnect?
19:48<dardevelin_>timmy, yes
19:49<timmy>viktor did you paste your entire sources.list file?
19:49-!-cts [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:49<timmy>still getting errors
19:49<viktor>timmy yeah, but im on LMDE atm. Diffrent repos
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19:50<timmy> i can see that
19:50<timmy>maybe i should use that instead
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19:50<timmy>i used up to 2 days before update pack3 released
19:50<Bushmills>rjsalts: no, because the graph reflects exactly the number of hits as found with google, not more and not fewer than that :)
19:50<timmy>viktor was libre offcie 3.4.3 in that update pack?
19:51<viktor>timmy: nah it's 3.3.3
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19:53<viktor>Does anyone know how to change the mousepoll rate in debian?
19:53<Zomb>viktor: sudo modinfo psmouse
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19:54<Zomb>and "man modprobe.d" to your next question
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19:55<Bushmills>viktor: if anyone did, what then?
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19:56<viktor>Bushmills: if they could help me out ofc, since the lines i found wont do much... such as "sudo modprobe -r usbhid && sudo modprobe usbhid mousepoll=2"
19:57<viktor>Zomb: thanx, gonna look into it
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19:57<Bushmills>viktor: gpm -s
19:57<debianmips>I have seen that there are different debian installer files, for the i386 we have the option of non-network installers (that looks for the packages in ISOs or CDs for instance). However, as far as MIPSEL is concerned, there's only the network installer available. Is there any way around this (I need the hd installer for mipsel) ?
19:57<Zomb>viktor: the lines won't help you when the module is already loaded. Edit the options in some modprobe.d file and reboot. See modprobe.d contents for examples.
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19:58<viktor>Zomb: well i tried adding a new file called usbhid with my selected option, still nothing tho
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19:59<Zomb>as said, module must be reloaded, eventually through reboot. You can "modprobe -r usbhid" but that might leave you alone w/o keyboard and mouse :-)
20:00<Zomb>OTOH reconnecting the keyboard might help then... maybe... and if that's a legacy keyboard, don't care
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20:06<debianmips>In short, mipsel installallers seem to only have the "netboot" option, is there any way to get around this so that I am able to install offline as well?
20:07<floomp>debianmips: what about this?
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20:09<debianmips>floomp: it's a computer without a cd-rom, it can only be booted via usb or hd by loading a vmlinuz and an initrd image, the CDs would only be useful once I got it running with an installer that allowed to scan for isos. HOwever it seems that the installers for MIPS come designed for netboot,
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20:11<debianmips>floomp: look, all of them are netboot -->
20:12<abrotman>that's not hte link he gave you ?
20:12<abrotman>debianmips: what's wron gwith the stable installer?
20:14<debianmips>abrotman: that's not the link he gave me. He gave me the link for the bootable CDs, and I gave him the link for the installer (i.e. the vmlinuz + initrd.gz image)
20:14<abrotman>the bootable CDs are installers ?
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20:15<debianmips>abrotman: no, by "installer" in debian repositories they mean just (vmlinuz + initd.gz). Sometimes there are computers that cannot boot from a CD-rom and they need to use these "installers", so they are installers in a different sense than CDs are
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20:16<Zomb>viktor: your paste is a shell skript. modprobe.d config file looks like
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20:16<floomp>debianmips: i'm not familiar with the hd installers, is it possible to load an iso onto a usb drive and boot from that?
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20:17<debianmips>floomp: no, that would be possible in an i386 or a x64 architecture, but not from MIPS I believe
20:18<abrotman>debianmips: i do not believe they use the base.tar.gz anymore .. so you'd have to have at least a tftp server .. is this not possible/
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20:19<debianmips>abrotman: let me explain more thoroughly
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20:21<debianmips>I donwload the vmlinuz and the initrd.gz and it works fine, the installer boots up from the pendrive and it asks me language, locale,etc. fine. The problem is that such installer lacks the option of scanning for ISOs from media, it seems only designed to connect to the internet in order to download the packages it needs, it doesn't give you the option of obtaining them locally, that's why these mipsel installers are within a "netbo
20:22<abrotman>debianmips: i know what it is .. and you were truncated
20:22<debianmips>abrotman: If I use the vmlinuz for MIPS and the initrd.gz for i386 , it would not work would it?
20:23<abrotman>i didn't suggest you should .. where did i say that?
20:23<debianmips>abrotman: you didn't , it was just me thinking of alternatives
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20:24<abrotman>MIPS is nothing like x86
20:24<debianmips>abrotman: there's something within the installer contained in the CDs that allows to install locally, but that "something" is not contained within the mipsel non-CD installers, dont know why
20:24<abrotman>you can install locally, but you have to fetch files remotely .. right?
20:25<debianmips>right, it needs to connect to the internet to fetch the files, just like what happens when you use one of those network install Cds
20:26<abrotman>then you used the network install CD incorrectly
20:26<abrotman>the netinst, does NOT require the internet to install, and those wheezy images are available .. the bizcard DOES require the internet
20:27<debianmips>ok, it was just so that you knew what I meant
20:27<abrotman>right .. so why can't you use the netinst?
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20:27<babilen>Are MIPSEL isos hybrid ones?
20:27<debianmips>you are not understanding me, I said that so that you visualized what happens, only that
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20:28<abrotman>debianmips: i'm asking why you can't use a CD .. the netinst
20:28<debianmips>babilen: I don't think so, I tried one into a pendrive, to no avail
20:29<debianmips>abrotman: my computer cannot boot from a CD, if it could there would be no problem at all, I would just download the 7 mipsel DVDs and I would have what I need
20:29<abrotman>i don't need a convoluted answer .. the netinst doesn't require the internet .. and the last time i used a MIPS box, it had a CD drive :)
20:29<debianmips>okay, you clearly don't know what I am talking about then.
20:29<abrotman>yes .. i do
20:29<gsimmons>babilen: No, hybrid images are ISOLINUX (x86) specific TTBOMK.
20:29<abrotman>debianmips: so you're looking for a fully self-contained installer that can run from the HDD ?
20:30<debianmips>abrotman: no, you don't, my mipsel is a netbook, so it doesn't have a cd
20:30<abrotman>debianmips: i can still understand an installer that doesn't use a CD
20:30<abrotman>jesus .. MIPS isn't hte only bizarre architecture
20:30<babilen>gsimmons: Thanks ... TTBOYK is all I need :)
20:30<debianmips>abrotman: yeah, an installer just like the i386 hd-media installers, that let you boot into the installer and then , from the installer, they allow you to scan for isos with the packages
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20:31<abrotman>debianmips: so you want an installer that runs completely from the HDD? .. without any network access, correct?
20:31<debianmips>abrotman: that's right!
20:31<abrotman>yeah .. not sure why you thought that was hard to understand ...
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20:31<abrotman>anyway ...
20:32<debianmips>abrotman: okay, I am sorry, it's just that it's difficult for me to convey what I want
20:32<abrotman>i noticed :)
20:33<abrotman>debianmips: and the installation manual doesn't mention this method ?
20:34<debianmips>abrotman: yes, it does, but the link it gives for the installers is the same I gave before, one where they only have such installers in a netboot folder (with no hd-media folder like in the case of i386), so don't know...
20:34<abrotman>so it doesn't? :)
20:35<abrotman>why doesn't TFTP work? do you not have another machine to act as a server? or just not interested?
20:35<debianmips>abrotman: no, I don't have a server, I am just a home user
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20:36<abrotman>you just need another linux box
20:36<debianmips>abrotman: that doesn't answer my question
20:36<abrotman>nor mine?
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20:36<abrotman>and i'm looking for an answer for yours ..
20:37<abrotman>do you know hwich subarch you are?
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20:37<debianmips>abrotman: loongston 2F
20:37<abrotman>not what i mean ...
20:38<abrotman> .. look at the list under 'mips'
20:38<abrotman>ugh ... mipsel
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20:40<debianmips>abrotman: this can work with the MALTA installer
20:40<debianmips>so if I got the malta installer
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20:41<abrotman>i was going to suggest you use an older version of debian that does have the hd-media stuff .. but might not be an option with malta
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20:41<abrotman>and if that's the case, not sure what you'd do at that point
20:42<abrotman>debianmips: have you asked the MIPS linux channel people on freenode ? (i think that's where it is)
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20:42<debianmips>abrotman: yeah, that's the problem and besides older versions don't support the loongson 2f like wheezy does
20:43<debianmips>abrotman: nice idea, I'll try
20:43<debianmips>see you soon then
20:43<abrotman>debianmips: and there's not a single chance of doing this with a network/tftp ?
20:43<debianmips>and thank you
20:43<abrotman>tftp isn't the most fun .. but once it's done .. you can use it a bunch
20:43<debianmips>abrotman: yeah, there is, but for I would do with the computer on a general basis I would like very much to have non network install
20:44<debianmips>abrotman: other think I was thinking would be to have a repository in the HD and configure the network to look at the loopback interface instead of looking for the repos in the internet, but don't know whether or not such a thing is even possible
20:45<abrotman>there are ways to do that .. but you need a working install first
20:45<debianmips>abrotman: and if I opened the initrd.gz image and tampered with the config in there?
20:45<debianmips>well, nevermind
20:45<debianmips>too late today, gotta go to bed
20:45<debianmips>see yo another day
20:46<abrotman>hasta manana
20:46<debianmips>bye bye!
20:46<hugoxrosa>good night/afternoon/morning
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20:46<Storm411>anyone here running Kubuntu?
20:47<abrotman>Storm411: you want #kubuntu on
20:47<abrotman>We don't support kubuntu in #debian
20:48<Storm411>even though its debian based?
20:48<Storm411>i see its ok no problem
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20:49<hugoxrosa>Is there an alternative to flash plugin?
20:49<abrotman>yes, gnash is one of htem
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20:50<hugoxrosa>I can't make it work, there is some tutorial I could study.
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20:51<hugoxrosa>I also try mplayer-plugin + greasemonkey + video without flash auto
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20:54<hugoxrosa>I'm trying to not use flash just for fun. But, I've got a dead lock.
20:55<hugoxrosa>I'm walking in circles.
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20:59<mand0>if i'm at the installer boot menu ( and choose "Install", is there anyway to get back to the boot menu without rebooting?
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21:16<gsimmons>mand0: No. Some of the advanced boot options (e.g. expert, rescue modes) can be manually loaded from within the installer.
21:16<chealer>is there a risk-free way of checking that mcelog is working? my logs are not getting any new MCE event since I rebooted on October 15th
21:17<chealer>however my CPU seems to be still overheating (I can see it throttling)
21:18<chealer>my last reboot before that was on September 29th, and the lowest-level upgrades I see in that time frame are dmidecode and upower...
21:18<chealer>I'm using testing i386 on a x86-64 machine, using the 686 Linux image
21:21<chealer>oh. "Oct 18 19:20:10 vinci mcelog: Unsupported new Family 6 Model 25 CPU: only decoding architectural errors\nOct 18 19:20:10 vinci mcelog: failed to prefill DIMM database from DMI data\nOct 18 19:20:10 vinci mcelog: Kernel does not support page offline interface\nOct 18 19:20:10 vinci mcelog: mcelog read: No such device" may be a clue
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21:23<chealer>(from syslog)
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21:30<Gerowen>Warning to everybody, while messing around with different PDF readers, I installed evince-gtk, this package removes Gnome, and if you use the "Software Center" it won't prompt you.
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21:31<chealer>ah, mce-inject... not packaged for Debian
21:32<chealer>what does "Kernel does not support page offline interface" mean?
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21:39<timmy>^^ good stress releifer
21:41<MrFrood>timmy: we try to keep to business here
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21:51<timmy>wtf is dpkg (the username)
21:52<rnowak>a helper bot, timmy
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21:53<dpkg>I ain't no stinkin' bot. I am a finely tuned and hand crafted tool. Oh wait... I guess I am a bot (that you should not abuse).
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21:55<timmy>o lol
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21:57<timmy>i dont think hesa bot
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21:59<babilen>timmy: Please use a social channel such as #moocows if you want to chat. I can also assure you that dpkg is indeed a bot.
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22:11<timmy>dpkg is funny
22:11<dpkg>timmy: no idea
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23:21<seb_>what is a good program to download mp3s on ubuntu ?
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23:22<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu ( instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian>.
23:22<seb_>ok heh
23:23<seb_>whgat is a good program to download mp3s on debian ?
23:24<UGP>hehe, you should have a paste file with that response to copy and paste
23:25<seb_>haha yeah
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23:35<wompa>seb_, I don't know, I don't use any program for that particular reason, but in general for downloading there's Iceweasel (Firefox debranded), wget, rtorrent, transmission, etc...
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23:38<seb_>yes thx I talked to someone somewhere else and he told me to use torrents
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---Logclosed Wed Oct 19 00:00:28 2011