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#debian IRC Logs for 2011-11-02

---Logopened Wed Nov 02 00:00:49 2011
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00:20<Guest15506>hi people! ive a problem, when installing the non-free nvidia drivers, and finally restart the pc, debian dont start
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00:42<UGP>anyone go promox or any kinda openvz working in amazon ec2?
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00:44<UGP>any AMI images?
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00:47<benjr>when i was using ubuntu, i could hover my mosue over top of a window that wasnt the focus, and use the scroll wheel on it, without taking the focus off the window in front ... ive just switched to debian and when i try doing that, as soon as i scroll, it changes the focus to the window which is scroll and moves it to the top ... how to i make it behave the way im used to in ubuntu?
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00:48<kop>benjr: Depends on your window manager.
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00:50<benjr>kop, ah ok, on ubuntu i was using gnome 2.3, now on debian im using xfce 4.6
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00:56<kop>benjr: Dunno. I bet xfce will do it but I don't know how to configure it. Presumably it's got some sort of configuration file or gui. (You want focus follows mouse, but not autoraise, or some such vocabularly.)
00:56<kop>benjr: If you can't get answers here you can try again later or ask in an xfce support channel. (Probably on
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00:58<benjr>kop, alright, thats for pointing me in the right direction, atleast i know some words to google with now
00:58<benjr>thanks for*
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01:37<wase>du rose kaufen
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01:53<lantizia>Hey I need my script to be able to check if a password it has been given for user 1000 is correct or not before trying to use it
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01:53<sney>you might be able to query pam somehow, but that would be the same as trying to use it
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01:53<lantizia>curhas=$(cat /etc/shadow | grep "^$(getent passwd 1000 | cut -d: -f1):" | cut -d: -f2)
01:53<lantizia>givhas=$(mkpasswd -s -m sha-512 -S $(echo "$curhas" | cut -d$ -f3) $pass)
01:54<lantizia>At the moment I'm checking those two variables equal each other - which works... but obviously if this is an older/newer system that didn't use sha512 to create the user then it's screwed
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01:59<lantizia>sney, any ideas how I query it?
01:59<sney>none, sorry
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02:41<Bushmills>lantizia: try md5sum instead of sha512sum
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02:41<lantizia>curhas=$(cat /etc/shadow | grep "^$(getent passwd 1000 | cut -d: -f1):" | cut -d: -f2)
02:41<lantizia>if [ $(perl -e 'print crypt($ARGV[0], $ARGV[1])' $pass $curhas) == $curhas ]; then echo meow; fi
02:41<lantizia>that is my working solution in the end
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04:14<dpkg>VATTENE VIA!
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04:58<afuentes>hi, i have a server that froze. Is there a debian faq somewhere about frozing? and how to hunt down the culprit? or what do i need to install to get help me the next time it freezes?
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05:12<amitz>define frozed.
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05:13<afuentes>amitz, it did not respond to ping, i could not connect to ssh, but the machine was up
05:13<amitz>unclickable gui? sudden darkness? clickable but non responsive gui?
05:13<afuentes>tty non responsive
05:13<jm_>does it have monitor attached?
05:14<afuentes>monitor showed a tty, but it did not responded to the keyboard
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05:15<BendIt>afuentes: and services running on that server still respond to requests? (like apache,mysql,etc) ?
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05:16<afuentes>BendIt, nop
05:16<Zaba>sounds like it might've kernel panicked
05:17<BendIt>can you switch the ttys by pressing F1-F7 ?
05:17<afuentes>zaba it happens the same when some process eats up the ram, or the cpu :/
05:17<jm_>in that case it should show it on the screen or at least blink kbd leds
05:17<BendIt>Alt + F1 - F7
05:17<afuentes>BendIt, nop
05:17<afuentes>totatlly unresponsible
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05:17<Zaba>what about alt+sysrq?
05:18<BendIt>last question: if you hit capslock, does the light turn on or off on keyboard?
05:18<afuentes>Zaba, its a kvm machine, i cant do that alt+sysrq, and i did reboot it already, so i cannot try that, sorry
05:18<afuentes>BendIt, sorry, its virtual machine
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05:19<afuentes>i did try to switch tty before
05:19<afuentes>it did not respond to anything
05:19<afuentes>it has some services exposed to the internet so it may be some attack as well
05:19<BendIt>is it the guest or host system which doesnt response anymore?
05:20<BendIt>and host is still alive ?
05:20<afuentes>i was able to attach to the console
05:20<afuentes>but it was totally unresponsible
05:20<BendIt>so you can measure the load on that system?
05:21<afuentes>well, i did have sar running each 10 mins
05:21<jm_>perhaps try to disable overcommit if it's one process using a lot of memory
05:21<BendIt>what does top/htop say?
05:21<SynrG>hm, irresponsible virtual hosts are the scourge of the internet
05:21<SynrG>(i think the word you were looking for is "unresponsive" ;)
05:21<afuentes>BendIt, now its ok, top and htop
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05:22<afuentes>thanks syn ;)
05:22<afuentes>the thing is, i cannot pin down the culprit
05:22<afuentes>nor i know what can i do in the future to pin it down
05:23<BendIt>ive no further experience with lkvm... so isnt there a management interface for guest administration?
05:23<afuentes>im thinking or doing a script to do a snapshot of the process when the load goes up 80% or sumething, but i cannot belive something along those lines exist already
05:24<afuentes>yup BendIt, i can connect directly to the console form the kvm host
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05:24<afuentes>but thats about it
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05:25<BendIt>so you can reboot, restart, halt the guest system^^
05:25<BendIt>but nothing else
05:25<afuentes>and attach to the tty's :)
05:25<afuentes>what else do you want BendIt? :)
05:26<BendIt>and there are no error/debug messages?
05:26<BendIt>access to the system :D
05:26<afuentes>well, ive been looking at the logs, but im not able to pin down the error :/
05:26<BendIt>maybe there are debug logs or something?
05:26<BendIt>ah ok
05:27<BendIt>and dmesg on host system?
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05:28<afuentes>[50637305.893225] <-- this format is seconds from the start of the machine, isnt it? any way to conver it to date/time easily?
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05:29<BendIt>there is a perl skript which formates that timestamp to a human readable format...
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05:35<BendIt>is it possible to preseed per-user localisation on debian? root = en_GB.UTF-8 but testuser = it_IT.UTF-8 it would be nice if the keyboard layout could be assigned too... any ideas if thats possible? (without dpkg-reconfigure would be nice)
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05:43<afuentes>awesome script BendIt :D
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05:46<OpenTokix>BendIt: just do it in a postinstall script
05:50<Duder>Hi, I have installed debian in virtualbox but there seems to be a problem with apt or something. The netinstall took ages and updating the system is really really slow as well. My connection speed is fine though, i got my normal speed when i used wget. When I run netselect-apt it doesn't work and tells me i might be behind a firewall or something but I have not setup a firewall. What could be the problem?
05:51<BendIt>OpenTokix: thats all? i mean, would it change the keyboard layout and language after login so that every user could have another lang/keyb layout?
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05:53<OpenTokix>BendIt: Well, you can privide a .bashrc for the users?
05:54<BendIt>yes, thats no problem... i thought there is a "best-practice" way for that kind of tasks -.-"
05:55<BendIt>afuentes: have you found something in dmesg output which could explain that "strange" behavior?
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05:58<BendIt>Duder: what kind of network connection have you set? NAT or Network Bridging or ...?
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05:59<Duder>BendIt: i'm using default, seems to be NAT
06:01<BendIt>ok. have you allready checked the resolve.conf?
06:02<Duder>no, i'm not very experienced with this, opened it now
06:02<BendIt>k, lets have a look :)
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06:03<afuentes>im still looking at it BendIt but i think so :)
06:03<BendIt>is your router?
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06:05<BendIt>does your router act as dns server?
06:05<divine9>Is OpenVPN the best VPN solution for security/stability?
06:06<Duder>BendIt: I don't know, it's not something I have set up
06:06<Duder>so I would guess no
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06:07<BendIt>is your host system linux based or windows? maybe you can find further information there
06:07<BendIt>or, just try to comment out the first 3 lines, save the file and run ping google or something
06:08<Duder>host system is ubuntu 11.10
06:08<BendIt>ok, so you can hava a look in the resolv.conf of your hosts system
06:08<jm_>Duder: netselect uses ping, so depending on your settings it might not get the results back
06:10<Duder>the resolv.conf looks the same in the hosts system
06:10<Duder>actually I have not tried what speed im getting with apt in ubuntu, how can I try this?
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06:11<jm_>apt-get -d install somebigpackage
06:12<afuentes>BendIt, this is from the host kvm machine at the time it froze: vcpu not ready for apic_round_robin
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06:13<BendIt>but the ubuntu repos are located on other server systems so the results would differ between ubuntu and debian repos
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06:13<grove>divine9: I have never experienced security or stability problems with OpenVPN, but I haven't looked at alternatives
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06:14<Duder>Ok, speeds are totally fine in ubuntu
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06:15<gob_bluth>can somebody fill me in on why tzdata keeps being updated? I swear i've updated it on the servers like 5 times now?
06:15<BendIt>afuentes: hm... have you apic/acpi activated for your guest system?
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06:17<BendIt>maybe just one of both... apic OR acpi
06:17<afuentes>BendIt, mmm no idea
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06:17<afuentes>im not that fond on kvm either u.U
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06:17<BendIt>you can check it during boot time in grub (if you use grub)
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06:18<afuentes>yup, i do have grup, but i can not stop the machine
06:18<BendIt>than kill it, if possible
06:18<BendIt>and restart
06:18<BendIt>in grub press "e" to get kernel args displayed
06:19<divine9>grove: no issues getting it up and running? pptp has been a huge head ache for me
06:19<jm_>gob_bluth: nothing in changelog?
06:19<gob_bluth> tzdata (2011m-0lenny1 => 2011n-0lenny1)
06:19<BendIt>should be part of the line where "quiet","splash" or something is
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06:19<afuentes>cant i see that from the running machine BendIt ?
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06:20<Duder>speeds seem to be fine with apt now...
06:20<BendIt>if you have access to that machine, yes. /boot/grub/grub.cfg or /boot/grub/menu.lst
06:20<BendIt>Duder: have you commented out the first 3 lines?
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06:21<Duder>Bendit: i did but then i removed the "#" afterwards when it didnt fix anything
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06:22<afuentes>BendIt, cpuinfo shows --> flags : apic
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06:22<afuentes>is that what you were looking for?
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06:22<BendIt>so you have commented it out, didnt work for you, commented in and now it works??
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06:23<Duder>something like that :s
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06:24<BendIt>afuentes: im not familiar with lkvm/kvm. but i think the documentation could give you answers about what you have to set up. per default it should work fine. but sometimes, with "special" hardware constelations you have to change or adjust that...
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06:24<afuentes>ah, fuck it... xD i dont have time for all this now
06:25<afuentes>thanks tho BendIt ;)
06:25<BendIt>i know what you mean...that sucks ;)
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06:25<BendIt>np, maybe you get better answers from someone else -.-"
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06:26<afuentes>well, my idea was to install something that would help me hunt down the culprit the next time it frozes
06:26<afuentes>because i have to mantain a farm, and from time to time some machine frozes
06:26<BendIt>what kind of service have you running in your vm ?
06:26<afuentes>all kind
06:27<afuentes>dns, webservers, scm, ldap, vpn...
06:27<BendIt>all from debian repositories? or self-compiled bleeding-edge beta software? *g
06:27<afuentes>oh, you mean on this one? im not sure since im not even the one who originally isntalled it... webserver and some other stuff i dont know, some tests and...
06:28<afuentes>well, most of it should be official
06:28<afuentes>old, but official
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06:28<afuentes>ppl in here thinks updating is not important
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06:29<afuentes>old= stable but without update
06:29<BendIt>never touch a running system ^^
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06:29<afuentes>yup... on the other hand it has services exposed to the internet... so i think we should update
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06:29<afuentes>but im not that experienced as they are, so i guess they have their reasons
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06:30<BendIt>security fixes should always be applied of course O_O
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06:30<afuentes>thats my though... but they dont see it that way
06:31<afuentes>i think stable updates are stable enough not to break anything, but who knows
06:31<afuentes>they dont think its a good idea
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06:32<BendIt>if youre on stable branch (squeeze atm) you dont have to fear much, i think. its that awesome kind of stable linux derivate^^ and therefore im loving it :)
06:32<BendIt>thanks to all debian developers, by the way ;)
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06:35<afuentes>yup, BendIt. im so thankful indeed that im looking into becoming one dd ;)
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06:35<afuentes>but yes, i dont know what to tell to convince ppl to update
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06:35<afuentes>i guess until this burns i have no case
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06:36<BendIt>yes, i know your situation :/ let it burn
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06:36<BendIt>you cant do anyting else
06:36<BendIt>just my opinion
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06:37<BendIt>and after it has crashed: you can say "i've tould you that this could happen..." :D
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06:50<Duder>hmmm, maybe it wasn't the downloading with apt that was the problem in ther first place, but instead unpacking the packages....
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06:52<thorgrin>hello, I'am having trouble installing slapd package using apt-get install... the problem is in install configuration which ends with error. Is this the place to ask for help?
06:53<divine9_>Yes, people are helpful
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06:54<thorgrin>I'm getting this when trying to install the package
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06:55<thorgrin>is there any way to get more info on the error?
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07:07<BendIt>thorgrin: try using aptitude... maybe there are some unresolved dependencies which aptitude could handle a little better then apt... but i dont realy think that this will solve your problem
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07:08<gnugr>slapd exists in synapric as well
07:08<babilen>thorgrin: -- Anything special about your system?
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07:10<thorgrin>babilen: that is exactly what I get
07:10<thorgrin>nothing special I believe.. or what do you mean by special?
07:11<babilen>thorgrin: I know, which is why I gave you the link. You might want to provide further information by running "reportbug slapd" on your system. Is there anything special about your system?
07:12<babilen>thorgrin: Well, if you would run a mixed (i.e. stable/testing/unstable) system for example or if some of your hardware is mice/badger/... based. Just something out of the ordinary. The bug report I linked looks as if the reported is running a mixed system, hence my question.
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07:19<thorgrin>I'll try to add my report
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07:20<babilen>thorgrin: Just run reportbug. You will be presented with a list of bugs, select #637996 and provide more information. It'll also run an automated script to gather additional information.
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07:23<thorgrin>babilen: I do not thing it will send any report without correct smtp server
07:23<thorgrin>which unfortunately I don't have configured yet
07:23<Duder>so my problem seems to be with actually unpacking/installing the packages, I just tried installing kde with apt-get, download took like 2 minutes, install took over 30 minutes
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07:25<thorgrin>babilen: I copied the report here , if it is any help
07:26<babilen>thorgrin: You can use Debian's smtp server -- Just run "reportbug --configure" to configure it.
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07:27<babilen>thorgrin: You can also use "reportbug --template" to just create the bug report that you can send by other means. You can also use Debian's SMTP server with the --smtphost option, but I just can not find additional information on that.
07:28<babilen>thorgrin: But it will be configured as the default if you run "reportbug --configure" and answer "n" to the "Do you have a "mail transport agent" (MTA) like Exim, Postfix or SSMTP configured on this computer to send mail to the Internet?" question and don't provide an alternative SMTP server.
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07:31<babilen>thorgrin: Or run "reportbug" -- but creating a suitable ~/.reportbugrc is better IMHO :)
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07:32<thorgrin>it cannot connect to the debian smtp. I have the report saved...
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07:34<thorgrin>maybe I need to use school authenticated smtp server
07:34<babilen>thorgrin: They might filter outgoing connections
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07:38<thorgrin>ok, I got it
07:39<thorgrin>but how do I fix it;-) I need to use the package... should i build it from source and forget this issue?
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07:46<thorgrin>now that's odd... on my other machine it went ok...
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07:52<babilen>thorgrin: Could you paste the output of "apt-cache policy ; apt-cache policy slapd" to ? Could you please also purge slapd on the first machine and try reinstalling it again?
07:53<wenrizzle>greetings :)
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07:58<thorgrin>babilen: I've already purged it a few times. It does not ask me for the configuration again though
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08:00<thorgrin>the difference between the machines is architecture, one is amd64, one i386
08:01<thorgrin>is it possible that the packages differ somehow?
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08:02<Vexc>Need help:
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08:05<jm_>Vexc: tools like auto-apt shall help, or apt-file in this case since you know what to look for
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08:07<babilen>thorgrin: Could you run "dpkg-reconfigure slapd" ? -- But i'm AFK now.
08:08<thorgrin>babilen: /usr/sbin/dpkg-reconfigure: slapd is broken or not fully installed
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08:12<Vexc>jm_: apt-file search glew1.7 returns nothing
08:13<jm_>Vexc: search for libGLU instead
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08:14<jm_>Vexc: once that builds, you can run it by a) installing it in /usr/local, or b) by setting LD_LIBRARY_PATH properly
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08:45<Vexc>jm_: Build error GLIBC_2.14:
08:46<jm_>Vexc: please don't replace glibc with your own build
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08:48<Vexc>jm_: Ok, what should I do to meet the depencies? /home/user/games/stepmania/stepmania-ll: /lib/ version `GLIBC_2.14' not found (required by /home/user/games/stepmania/stepmania-ll)
08:48<jm_>Vexc: this means the binary needs newer libraries than what is available in your system
08:48<Vexc>jm_: and /home/user/games/stepmania/stepmania-ll: /usr/lib/ version `GLIBCXX_3.4.15' not found (required by /home/user/games/stepmania/stepmania-ll)
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08:48<jm_>Vexc: I see neither version in Debian
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08:49<Vexc>jm_: So I won't get the program to work in debian?
08:49<jm_>Vexc: where did you find this binary?
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08:51<Loreka379>en que canal me tengo que meter donde esten las chicas lesbianas?
08:51<jm_>Vexc: there seems to be source code available, so you could try building it
08:52<jm_>Vexc: try these docs
08:53<Vexc>Won't I run into the same trouble with not having glibc_2.14?
08:53<Vexc>jm_: Won't I run into the same trouble with not having glibc_2.14?
08:54<Loreka379>en que canal me tengo que meter donde esten las chicas lesbianas?
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08:54<jm_>Vexc: no, it would build against whatever you have on the system (but it may of course require newer versions of some libraries, you will find this out later)
08:55<Vexc>jm_: Thank you for the help =]
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08:56<jm_>Vexc: no worries
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09:07<mib_mbbpd2>i have an issue
09:08<mib_mbbpd2>SmartUnPack called on Package libgpm2 but its unpacked E: Handler silently failed
09:08<mib_mbbpd2>and i dunno how to solve that
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09:49<amoe>Hey, I want to use preseeding with a CD install and to do that I need to 'remaster' the CD image... is there any good documentation about doing that? The documentation on preseeding doesn't include how to remaster the CD.
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10:25<BendIt>amoe: is a good way to start
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10:27<BendIt>but dont use any version above 2.X... its still in development and currently in alpha/beta status afaik
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11:03<babagau>can anyone help on installing grub by running live cd?
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11:04<babilen>!tell babagau -about fixmbr
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11:08<babagau>I guess I have to chroot to the installed system? how?
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11:28<ElDeablo>Boa tarde!
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12:07<alvarezp>Hi. I think I found a bug in kernel 3.0, which is on Debian wheezy. Basically, during boot, under kernel 2.6.32 the root partition gets detected immediately, but in 3.0 I need rootdelay=50 aprox. If I don't, the server just won't boot and drops me to an initramfs shell.
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12:09<alvarezp>Any ideas on how to find the root cause of this, and make a good bug report?
12:09<kop>alvarezp: I believe that #debian-next is for wheezy support. They probably know.
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12:10<alvarezp>kop, oh thanks! Will go there.
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12:48<Duder>Hi, i'm trying to install debian on a computer with both wired and wireless internet, is there any way I can force the installer to use the wired ethernet? When I skip the wifi setup I can't connect to the mirrors
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12:54<Duder>anyone? please
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12:55<tsnovo>como instalar o flash player
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12:55<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
12:56<babilen>tsnovo: "apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree"
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12:58<Duder>babilen: could you please help me?
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13:00<babilen>Duder: I'd love to. Is your NIC recognised? IIRC you can choose which network interface one wants to use, so you should just be able to pick eth0 there.
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13:00<Duder>babilen: so maybe the problem is that it can't detect the regular ethernet but only the wifi?
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13:01<Nik05>does someone know how i can align a printer, using CUPS ?
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13:02<babilen>Duder: Yes, that would be what I suspect. What NIC is used in your computer? It would be great if you knew the PCIID
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13:04<Duder>Intel® 82579, 1 x Gigabit LAN Controller(s)
13:04<Duder>Intel® LAN- Dual interconnect between the Integrated LAN controller and Physical Layer (PHY)
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13:05<babilen>Duder: Which version of Debian are you installing?
13:05<Duder>netinstall 64bit testing
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13:05<babilen>Duder: 6.0.3 ?
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13:06<babilen>Duder: AAH, testing
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13:06<babilen>Duder: Try the stable installer
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13:06<Duder>bibilen: its easy to convert to testing afterwards right?
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13:07<themill>I think that's a nic that likes a newer kernel
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13:08<babilen>themill: I have that NIC and support was added (backported) in 6.0.3
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13:08<babilen>Duder: Yes it is (running testing is not easy, so ymmv) -- You might also want to try "bab<TAB>" in your IRC client.
13:09<themill>babilen: ahh yes... I remember I went and grabbed the kmuto installer the day before support was added to squeeze for that.
13:09<themill>(I'm assuming it's 8086:1502 not 8086:1503)
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13:09<Duder>babilen: haha thanks for the advice ;)
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13:21<Nik05>babilen do you know why my printer doesnt use margins? :P
13:21<Nik05>it tries to print right on the edge...
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13:38<alvarezp>Hi. I hate it when a package upgrade asks me to overwrite some change I did to /etc/whatever.conf. Sometimes it's an unimportant change (like a comment) , so I was wondering if there is a way for Debian to use the following method: have my altered /etc/whatever.conf diffed against the original file and then reapply the resulting patch to the new version of the file.
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13:40<mjk>alvarezp: Nice idea ... I don't know if such a thing exists, but there are aptitude hooks, maybe you can use those ...
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13:42<mjk>alvarezp: And it /seems/ there are also dpkg hook, just haven't found anything concrete yet ...
13:42<MrFrood>alvarezp: If I unstand you, you are asking that dpkg use RCS for configuration files..? (I know of no way of doing this, but interesting idea)
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13:44<alvarezp>MrFrood, not necesarily RCS (versioning), just using diff/patch intelligently to prevent loss of important configuration data.
13:45<apo>alvarezp: i think the problem is how should apt know whether your changes in a config file are important or not, at the moment you can decide by yourself if this is the case
13:45<kooll>alvarezp: something like this could possible be done using etckeeper. (it hooks into apt and adds versionning)
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13:45<alvarezp>apo, all of my changes are important, of course! I would have not made them otherwise.
13:45<kooll>at least it would be easier to see the changes if you have the versionning
13:46<apo>alvarezp: well, why did you say "sometimes it's unimportant"? ;)
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13:46<Bushmills>alvarezp: you could use a combination of lsyncd and a log structured file system, to automatically copy all changes to a directory on that log structured fs (such as nilfs)
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13:46<kooll>apo: unimportant as in 'removing it would not break production services'. not unimportant as 'unwanted'
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13:46<Bushmills>nilfs maintains a track record of those changes
13:46<alvarezp>apo, oh, I meant the unimportant maintainer changes (not mine); sometimes the maintainer just fixes a typo in a comment in /etc/whatever.conf
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13:47<alvarezp>kolter, no, unimportant *maintainer* changes, not unimportant changes of mine.
13:47<apo>ah, well ok, i see the difference
13:48<Duder>Hi, I just installed debian but I can't change screen resolution above 1024x768, using a 580gtx, how can i install free drivers or am i already using them? How do I fix this
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13:49<alvarezp>I am thinking out loud that there could be an /etc.orig directory where dpkg could install the pristine copy of whatever.conf, against to which base off the diff.
13:49<alvarezp>Only if the patch gets rejected (because maybe the upgrade makes whatever.conf differ so much) then ask whether I want to keep my changes or apply the maintainer new conf.
13:50<Torsten_W>Duder, nouveau, aka the free drivers does not support your card
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13:50<Duder>Torsten_W: what about vesa? Or do I have to use proprietary drivers?
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13:51<Torsten_W>Duder, i would use the binary blob, but you would need a newer version of this driver, than the version, which is in debian squeeze
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13:53<tweek>i have a question about convention, in apache: if i want to use /mnt/somewhere instead of /var/www, do i use symbolic links or do i change the document root in the apache config?
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13:53<alvarezp>tweek, I'd change the DocumentRoot.
13:53<Duder>Torsten_W: Can't I just enable testing sources and do it that way? I think I wanna use testing anyways
13:54<Torsten_W>Duder, if you can handle it, you can do, whatever you want
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14:06<jhutchins_lt>Duder: Please do NOT mix testing and stable.
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14:07<Duder>jhutchins_lt: what do you mean? Can't I just change sources.list to update to testing?
14:08<sney->you can update to testing completely but mixing the two is bad juju
14:08<sney->and using testing right now is only recommended if you know what you're doing, or if the system is expendable
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14:08<Duder>how unstable is testing exactly?
14:08<kabars_edge>Duder: They are right, either be all testing or all stable, and after you change your sources to testing, do a distupgrade, not just a standard update/upgrade
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14:09<jhutchins_lt>Duder: I would recommend that you do a second dual-boot install of squeeze then upgrade that. That way, not only do you have a working system when testing breaks, you have a stable system to compare it with to see what went wrong.
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14:09<jhutchins_lt>Duder: It WILL break. It will be broken on purpose in order to find and fix what goes wrong.
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14:10<sney->testing is really annoying to use right now if you have proprietary nvidia or ati graphics. it's also in the midst of the transition from gnome 2 to gnome 3, so there is breakage predicted in everything gnome. the kernels change fairly often and bring hardware weirdness with them most times. um, I'm probably forgetting things
14:10<jhutchins_lt>!tell duder about nvidia
14:10<jhutchins_lt>Duder: There are backports of newer xorg packages available in stable.
14:11<kabars_edge>Duder: FYI, I did a dist upgrade from squeeze to wheezy recently and it was fairly painless, I just had to recompile my proprietary nvidia module
14:11<sney->yeah, xorg 1.10 is in squeeze-backports
14:11<sney->kabars_edge: have you noticed your desktop slowdown yet or are you using the experimental driver
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14:12<Duder>maybe i should just stay with stable for now then
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14:14<chealer>Duder: it's hard to say, the easiest way to get an idea is to try. has a list of known issues in testing which may be serious bugs.
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14:15<Duder>well i think i'm gonna stay with stable now, I really just need to get the nvidia drivers installed
14:15<chealer>Duder: please provide your X log
14:15<retrospectacus>stable + backports is usually a good option
14:15<Duder>what exactly is a backport?
14:16<dpkg>A backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications. (2.7.4 and 2.7.10), . Ask me about <debian-backports> and <backport caveat>. See also <simple sid backport>.
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14:16<Duder>ah thanks
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14:17<Duder>can I use this guide: to install the nvidia drivers properly
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14:18<kabars_edge>Duder: downloading the module from Nvidia and installing it is super simple, unless you just want the ease of apt
14:18<sney->kabars_edge: please don't recommend the nvidia installer
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14:19<alvarezp>Duder, I usually install nvidia-glx. It just works.
14:19<sney->in cases with new gpus it's a little tough to make a good recommendation, but the nvidia installer CAN AND WILL break your xorg install if you ever change things
14:19<kabars_edge>sney: and why is that?
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14:19<sney->!why nvidia-installer sucks
14:19<dpkg>nvidia-installer works fine for you today, granted. Let's say tomorrow Xorg is updated -- the nvidia driver will break. If you try to uninstall nvidia (nvidia-installer --uninstall), then you break Xorg badly. nvidia-installer overwrites files at random, and has NO CONCEPT of package management. We recommend against using it based on extensive experience. USE THE DEBIAN PACKAGES. Ask me about <nvidia>.
14:20<kabars_edge>sney: I disagree
14:20<Duder>so nvidia-glx is the package to install?
14:20<alvarezp>kabars_edge, using the debian packages makes sure you don't break your debian installation.
14:20<mjk>alvarezp: This could help: man -P'less +/\ Pre-Install-Pkgs' apt.conf
14:20<alvarezp>Duder, yes
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14:20<kabars_edge>sney: being a real linux sys admin ensures I don't break my debian install
14:20<mjk>alvarezp: (In case your config-overwrite/patch problem is not solved yet)
14:21<sney->kabars_edge: it doesn't break your debian install, sure. you can always reinstall xorg and redo the whole driver build every single time there's a security update to X. OR...
14:21<OdyX>kabars_edge: you have no idea if the persons you advise to use out-of-Debian stuff is a "real linux sys admin" though.
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14:22<sney->kabars_edge: anyway, #debian is an official support resource. so you can do whatever you want on your own systems, but please keep unwise recommendations to yourself when you're helping people here.
14:22<Duder>Ok, I installed nvidia-glx, now I need to configure xorg or something?
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14:22<chealer>Duder: would you mind providing your X log?
14:22<Duder>sure, but then you'll have to tell me how to do it :)
14:22<kabars_edge>sney: and officially, debian shouldn't have any closed-source support in their repositories, therefore, the only true support for nVidia would to be to use the nVidia driver
14:23<alvarezp>Duder, when I used it, i didn't have to change anything.
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14:23<Duder>do I have to restart x or reboot the system or something then?
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14:24<mjk>Duder: At least restart X =)
14:24<alvarezp>duder, yes. Best luck! If you need to remove the package, make sure you use --purge.
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14:24<apo>Duder: you could instal nvidia-xconfig which will create automatically a xorg.conf for your proprietary nvidia driver
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14:24<mjk>alvarezp: What's the problem when not using --purge?
14:25<mjk>Duder: And for fine-tuning various things, you could also install "nvidia-settings".
14:25<kabars_edge>mjk: when you don't use the --purge option, it leaves config files in place
14:25<alvarezp>mjk, I wouldn't like any package to leave its configuration around, potentially conflicting with configuration. I don't know the specifics of nvidia-glx.
14:25<alvarezp>Duder, oh, nvidia-settings is a good one too!
14:25<mjk>Ah, okay ...
14:26<Duder>so there looks like there are a lot of ways to restart x, what's the best way?
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14:26<retrospectacus>Duder: system menu - logout
14:26<alvarezp>Duder, restart your PC or just logout.
14:26<alvarezp>mjk, thanks for the info on apt.conf
14:27<mjk>alvarezp: you're welcome =)
14:27<Duder>wait, should I install nvidia-xconfig first?
14:27<mjk>Duder: Just install them simultaneously ("aptitude install nvidia-glx nvidia-xconfig nvidia-settings" for example)
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14:28<Guest15580>full beg of data
14:28<apo>Duder: first install nvidia-xconfig, then run the command nvidia-xconfig in your preferred terminal emulator, then restart x
14:28<anbe>Duder, /usr/share/doc/nvidia-glx/README.Debian* has a sample xorg.conf, no need for nvidia-xconfig
14:28<Guest15580>compct of data restart deled
14:28<Torsten_W>nvidia-xconfig builds a unwanted, bloated xorg.conf
14:28<kabars_edge>anbe: Duder appears to be a noob, the nvidia-xconfig would probably save him a lot of heartache
14:29<Duder>lol, so is the sample xorg.conf good enough?
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14:29<Duder>and if so do I need to activate it or something
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14:30<alvarezp>Duder, you said you have a new installation. Do you have anything important on that installation, yet?
14:30<kabars_edge>Duder: possibly, depending on your requirements, and the xorg server will read your config upon startup
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14:30<alvarezp>Duder, maybe you can just go and experiment. What's the worse that can happen, having to reinstall Debian from scratch again?
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14:30<Duder>I don't have anything critical on this installation
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14:31<anbe>generally, this minimal bit should be sufficient, put it into /etc/X11/xorg.conf and restart your display manager
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14:32<alvarezp>Duder, the thing is that results vary from card to card. Usually you just install nvidia-glx and restart and it works fine. *Maybe*, at most, you may need to have an configuration and force the driver to "nvidia" instead of nouveau or vesa. But I remember purging my system, installing nvidia-glx and have it just work (GeForce 210)
14:32<Duder>ok, im just gonna try logging out now then
14:32<Duder>thanks for all the help so far
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14:33<valdyn>alvarezp: so you say that you forgot that xorg.conf was not actually purged
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14:33<Duder>nah, that wasn't enough
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14:34<kabars_edge>Duder: also, check to see if the nouveau module is installed, and if it is, I would blacklist that bad boy, it can cause a lot of issues. Just put "blacklist nouveau" in your /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf
14:34<alvarezp>Duder, what happened? Take a look at /var/log/Xorg.0.log (I think that's the name) you should get hints from there.
14:35<alvarezp>valdyn, I'm not sure I said that, hehe, but what is the question?
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14:36<anbe>kabars_edge, the nvidia-installer sucks and causes lots of problems. if not today, perhaps in a year because it leaves some files around ... also does this thing know anything about multiarch? -- being the nvidia-glx maintainer I've got some experience cleaning up after the nvidia-installer
14:37<anbe>Duder, that blacklisting was already done by installing nvidia-glx, but it requires a restart to get rid of the loaded nouveau module (if loaded)
14:37<Duder>anbe: actually it wasn't blacklisted in blacklisted.conf
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14:38<anbe>correct, its in /etc/modprobe.d/nvidia-kernel-common.conf
14:38<Duder>are you saying I need to do a full system restart and not just log out log in?
14:38<anbe>if 'lsmod | grep nouveau' outputs something, yes
14:38<Duder>anbe: ok i'll remove the entry from blacklist.conf then
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14:39<Duder>it does output something, ok rebooting
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14:39<kabars_edge>anbe: I've never had any serious issues from the nVidia installer
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14:41<chealer>retrospectacus: just logging out won't restart X (it general anyway, it can in some cases)
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14:41<Duder>even after reboot the lsmod command outputs stuff about nouveau
14:41<Duder>and i still cant change resolution
14:41<kabars_edge>Duder: then it's still loading nouveau as your video mod
14:42<anbe>do 'update-initramfs -u' to regenerate your initrd and retry
14:42<Duder>anbe: are you talking to me?
14:42<anbe>Duder, yeah
14:43<Duder>ok rebooting again
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14:44<anbe>the blacklist needs to be active in the initrd
14:45<Duder>still no go
14:46<anbe>hmm, gotta go now, sorry
14:46<Duder>ok, thanks for your help anyways
14:46<kabars_edge>Duder: is it still listing nouveau as an active module?
14:46<Duder>isnt xorg.conf supposed to be at /etc/X11/xorg.conf ?
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14:46<Duder>kabars_edge, yes
14:47<Duder>because that file is completely empty
14:48<kabars_edge>Duder: that file should def not be empty
14:48<retrospectacus>it can be empty
14:48<dpkg>xorg can use files ending in the suffix .conf in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d for additional configuration. It is preferred to use an <empty xorg.conf> and create files (e.g. 20-nvidia.conf, 20-radeon.conf, 20-wacom.conf) there in order to configure a single device. You might have to create the directory yourself (mkdir /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d). See also "man 5 xorg.conf".
14:49<sney->xorg.conf is empty/nonexistent in a default squeeze install as it normally autodetects everything. Proprietary nvidia and ati drivers are one of the only things that requires xorg.conf/xorg.conf.d
14:50<kabars_edge>I thought it would, at minimum, have a comment explaining the above explanation about xorg.conf.d
14:50<steinex>i must say i actually don't see the point at having that (empty) directory not by default
14:51<steinex>this would help against confusion a lot.
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14:51<Duder>so what do I do now, create the xorg.conf.d folder?
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14:52<kabars_edge>or just manually create a xorg.conf
14:52<sney->kabars_edge: that's not a bad idea, tbh. submit a wishlist bug!
14:52<sney->the comment thing
14:52<kabars_edge>sney: agreed
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14:53<Duder>im sorry for asking so many questions
14:53<Duder>i have created the folder, now i need to write the actual config file?
14:53<kabars_edge>Duder: no problems, thats why we are here
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14:53<Duder>thanks :)
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14:54<sney->yep, just a text file called nvidia.conf or whatever you like
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14:55<sney->and the device section by itself. all it needs are the identifier and driver lines
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14:56<Duder>ok, i used this sample:
14:57<sney->that should be fine. the glx part should be unnecessary but won't hurt anything
14:57<Duder>do i need to do anything more
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14:58<sney->just make sure that nouveau blacklist is in place
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15:00<kabars_edge>Duder: sney is correct, nouveau, for a reason unknown to me, seems to always take precedence over any other vid drivers
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15:00<Duder>already checked that, rebooting now
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15:01<kabars_edge>poor guy, imagine if he was trying to configure XFree86
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15:07<Duder>Now I just got a blackscreen with a flashing "_" in the upper left so I booted into recovery mode and commented every line in nvidia.conf file i made in xorg.conf.d
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15:10<sney->Duder: can you pastebin your Xorg.0.log somewhere?
15:10<Duder>sney, where is that file located
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15:12<Duder>here is the log
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15:13<kabars_edge>sney: I submitted our wish to the package maintainers
15:13<Duder>oh wait, that wasnt the full one
15:14<Duder>how can I cat the whole file?
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15:15<kabars_edge>Duder: cat <filename>
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15:16<Duder>kabars_edge, seems like that only gives me the first 100 lines or something, doesn't give the full file
15:17<ompaul>Duder: cat gives a full file
15:17<kabars_edge>Duder, it should give you the whole file, unless your terminal emulator is has a line limitation
15:18<ompaul>Duder: usually the complaint is the file is too big, in which case use "less filename"
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15:18<ompaul>Duder: that last one allows you use the built in pager "page" the file
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15:20<Duder>here is the pastebin with the whole log:
15:21<Torsten_W>Duder, 1st 195.36.31 will not work with your card
15:21<Torsten_W>Duder, 2nd, in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ there is no valid config-file
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15:22<Duder>Torsten_W, Oh, I thought I installed the other one doh, and yeah i commented out the conf file to be able to use x again
15:23<Torsten_W>Duder, i don't know, what you thought
15:23<Torsten_W>but at minimum, you need version 275.03 for this card
15:23<Duder>This was the command I ran to install the drivers "apt-get -t squeeze-backports install nvidia-glx
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15:25<Duder>Torsten_W, can I install those from the backport sources? and if the how
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15:25<Torsten_W>i don't know, which nvidia-version is in backports since i'm not using debian stable
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15:32<chealer>Duder: thanks. did you consider using the nv driver?
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15:33<chealer>Duder: yes, you're already using a free driver
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16:04<javier_>hi. How can I access ubuntu channel?
16:04<sney->!ubuntuirc javier_
16:04<dpkg>javier_: This is not the Ubuntu help channel. Please do /server and then /join #ubuntu. If you are using XChat, you can right-click the following link and choose connect. irc://
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16:06<Duder>ehh I still need help installing these nvidia drivers, kabars_edge was helping me but now he's gone
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16:07<Duder>sney, could you please help me
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16:07<sney->I'm coming and going all day so I can't sit around and make sure you get everything right
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16:07<sney->duder, how important is this computer to you? if there was breakage, would you be inconvenienced or would it not be a big deal?
16:08<Duder>it's not a big deal
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16:08<Duder>kabars-edge told me to download the nvidia drivers and install them
16:08<sney->I think it would be less headache to just upgrade to testing
16:08<javier_>sney-: gracias
16:08<sney->javier_: de nada
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16:09<Duder>so I ran the installer and got some complaining about gcc
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16:09<sney->yeah, it's good that the installer didn't work.
16:09<Duder>so i was told to run "rm -f /usr/bin/gcc" and "ln -s /usr/bin/gcc-4.3 /usr/bin/gcc" and now it complains about not finding gcc or something
16:09<amilianm>holas xd
16:10<amilianm>Tengo una duda sobre Canaima Squeeze
16:10<Black_Prince>dpkg, es
16:10<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
16:10<sney->I mean it's your choice. you can use the nvidia-installer script and make it work, and then don't upgrade X ever unless you want to break X again, or you can upgrade to testing, use the driver in experimental, and actually get support from us and automatic upgrades and stuff
16:10<amilianm>con el network manager
16:10-!-Qazjap11 [] has joined #debian
16:11<amilianm>el network manager se queda a veces en modo dormido cuando los usuarios dejan de usar las pc por unos minutos
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16:11<sney->amilianm: este canal es Ingles solamente. para castellano, /j #debian-es
16:11<Duder>can i not use drivers in experimental with stable
16:11<amilianm>y se les cae la conexion alguien sabe como correjir esto
16:12<sney->the experimental driver requires the xorg from testing/sid
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16:12<Duder>can I not get it in any other way than upgrading the whole system?
16:12<sney->well... hmm
16:12<sney->I haven't tried this so this is just me guessing
16:13<sney->but you could *possibly* upgrade to xorg from squeeze-backports, and then use the nvidia driver from testing
16:13<sney->I hate how nvidia makes this stuff so hard
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16:14<sney->start by making a text file called apt.conf in /etc/apt/, then put Default-Release=squeeze; in it
16:14<sney->er Default-release "squeeze";
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16:15<scraze>just randomly reading along: you can get past the gcc notification by explicitly setting the right gcc version, like this: CC=gcc-4.4 sh
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16:16<sney->Duder: then you'd upgrade xorg from squeeze-backports (you already have backports installed, iirc), add the wheezy repo to sources.list, and do aptitude -t wheezy install nvidia-kernel-dkms
16:16<babilen>scraze: I would rather suggest to install nvidia drivers "The Debian Way" -- "/msg dpkg nvidia dkms"
16:16<sney->Duder: note that I'm just pulling this from my brain and it's untested so I have no idea if it'd work
16:17<sney->babilen: I'm sorry for telling him to mix stable and testing but every other option is a bigger headache :( damn nvidia
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16:17<scraze>babilen: therefore the 'just randomly reading along' thing - is not my suggestion to do so, but if one chooses to install the proprietary driver and runs into that specific problem, then my line is a specific solution
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16:17<Duder>actually I think i'll fix this tomorrow instead
16:17<babilen>scraze: Yes, absolutely :)
16:17<Duder>thanks for the help everyone
16:17<sney->Duder: no problem
16:18<sney->sorry we couldn't get it sorted out quickly for you
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16:19<scraze>as it happens, i'm actually using NVIDIA's solution. wheezy's debian package seems to dislike me or Xorg's new ABI - not sure which one :]
16:20<sney->xorg's new abi
16:20<kabars_edge>scraze: I agree with you, I use nVidia's proprietary driver with no issues
16:20<babilen>scraze: You can pull it from experimental
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16:21<scraze>babilen: nod, i saw that solution scrolling by .. had some bad packages-from-experimental sandwiches in the past, must be why I didn't think of it earlier ;]
16:21<sney->the nvidia-installer is definitely an at your own risk solution. if only it would at least generate a deb like the ati one does, then the existence of nvidia-installer-cleanup wouldn't be required
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16:22<babilen>scraze: yeah, but the version in experimental (290 something) works with Xorg 1.11 -- There are probably still some issues that upstream needs to sort out, but better than the current state in wheezy. But lets take it to #debian-next if there is any interest in pursuing this discussion.
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16:23<Torsten_W>babilen, the version in wheezy would also work with xserver 1.11
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16:24<babilen>Torsten_W: Isn't that one sluggish as hell?
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16:24<Torsten_W>babilen, on the card, which Duder owns, not
16:25<babilen>Torsten_W: Because it supports the trapezoid rendering?
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16:48<smhar_>how to logout from a user account in X using the console (or a keyboard shortcut)
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16:50<ompaul>smhar_: it's a bit cruel but this is the evil command: pkill -u `whoami`
16:51<ompaul>smhar_: it will log you out of the console also
16:51<ompaul>smhar_: so run it as some other user if being logged in is important and su - otherperson
16:52<scraze>another cruel solution would be to restart your X daemon (e.g. /etc/init.d/gdm restart)
16:52<ompaul>smhar_: as it is something I tell users to use if they are badly stuck and they can't contact support, then it is in a script with an rm recursive and force of /tmp on the grounds that if they have anything in there that caused their session to die will it will die too
16:53<ompaul>scraze: you might have 50 people running X from the box and that ain't great
16:53<scraze>ompaul: indeed, being logged out of the console may be far less of a problem than disconnecting others
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16:55<ompaul>scraze: I only rebooted our mutliuser X box once during the working day
16:56<ompaul>let's say I know now that running from the basement to the fourth floor is not something I want to do as a habit :)
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16:56<ompaul>scraze: it was actually a shutdown -h now so eh anyway
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16:56<scraze>aww :) i see
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16:59<retrospectacus>smhar: I guess it worked?
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17:00<smhar>retrospectacus, :-)
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17:00<smhar>ompaul, thanks
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17:03<ompaul>smhar: you're welcome
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17:15<gnufan>Can I find what packages in the archive depends directly of indirectly on a given library. i.e. rdepends but for everything. Appreciate it could be a big list for some packages... but seems something that ought to be in p.d.o but if it is I missed it.
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17:17<Black_Prince>isn't rdepends for everything?
17:19<Black_Prince>for example, c library. ...
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17:21<rpetre>hello, for dual-stack interface configuration (native ipv6 and native ipv4) do i still need to do manual configuration in /etc/network/interfaces or is it better supported?
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17:24<scraze>rpetre: dhcp for ipv6 can be implemented, but has to be supported by your router/gateway
17:25<rpetre>scraze: i want static configuration (i have a v6 router)
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17:26<rpetre>so far i did it with 'inet static' interfaces plus 'up ip -6 addr add' ines
17:27<rpetre>but those were in sarge or lenny times, i was wondering if there's better ways now
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17:27<scraze>i'm using a "iface eth0 inet6 static" section in /etc/network/interfaces
17:28<rpetre>#debian-ipv6 is awfully silent and dpkg's factoids have the same old howtos
17:28<rpetre>scraze: and it takes v4 addresses as well? man 5 interfaces suggest it doesn't
17:28<scraze>i have two sections, one for "inet" and one for "inet6"
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17:28<scraze>it doesn't mind ;]
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17:29<rpetre>ok, thanks, i'll try that
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17:31<scraze>rpetre: found the doc i used:
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17:32<gnufan>Black_Prince: urm yes - sorry for noise - long day
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17:33<rpetre>scraze: thanks, it doesn't say much, but glad to know it works
17:33<Black_Prince>iface interface inet6 ?
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17:35<rpetre>yay, apparently one inet and one inet6 don't conflict
17:35<rpetre>now to see about automagically updating radvd...
17:35<scraze>yes, they seem to not care much about eachother :} glad it works
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18:13<mercutio22>I am trying to install the Voxatron game from the humble indie bundle. It requires ia32-libs. Unfortunately I get some conflicting dependencies:
18:14<mercutio22>Is there something I could do?
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18:14<sney->I would remove build-essential and the toolchain, then install ia32-libs, then reinstall your toolchain later down the line if you need it
18:17<mercutio22>by toolchain you mean g++, linux-headers and etc listed in the second option?
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18:18<cmr>A toolchain is compiler and things you need to compile.
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18:18<cmr>(tools you need to compile)
18:18<cmr>Headers are not part of that.
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18:31<LesleyL>Any SAS connection gurus out there? I'm having trouble getting a tape changer device recognised. It should be showing up as scsi_generic but it's not there. Is there some other driver I should load?
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18:35<ompaul>LesleyL: which exact model is it
18:36<LesleyL>with LTO5 drives
18:36<LesleyL>Currently I'm wondering if the cable might be wrong. The tape connection is fine (st0)
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18:38<LesleyL>I'm also looking in the sg3-utils doco to see if there's anything there that helps. sg_scan -a produces no output.
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18:39<ompaul>the only comment I found was one about needing more ram for a different drive to talk to external ports
18:40<ompaul>so I can't find anything - so you could be right about the cables, I saw that dell and hp both have large docs available for this
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18:41<LesleyL>ok. Thanks for looking.
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18:56<sney->you must be looking for #moocows
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18:59<Black_Prince>or moogoats
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19:03<benjr>I think I understand that different apps, made for certain WM's, will depend on other general packages for that WM. Does that if Iim using XFCE and running a gnome calculator, and a kde text editor, that im using as many system resources as if i was running 3 WM's at once?
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19:04<benjr>does that mean*
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19:05<cmr>benjr: No, not at all.
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19:06<cmr>Try to stick to one DE's tools (note the difference between WM and DE)
19:06<cmr>But the penalization for using another is small.
19:06<retrospectacus>it's not a problem. Maybe a tiny bit more resources than e.g if you were using gedit instead of kate
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19:07<rpetre>kate might pull a little more baggage after it than the calculator, but neither compares to a full blown DE
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19:08<retrospectacus>mixing them up like that only makes you have lots of extra libraries installed, which uses more disk but isn't a problem otherwise... also the apps won't all look the same which bothers some people
19:09<benjr>Ah that's a relief, so a modern system, I can pick whatever packages I like and the effect will be minimal? I'll have to google the difference between WM and DE, that's the 2nd time I've made that mistake.
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19:11<rpetre>benjr: a window manager only deals with window placement, resize, overlap, things like that
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19:12<cmr>rpetre: compositing wms do much more
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19:12<benjr>Interestingly, XFCE seems to have no calculator, I thought that would be kind of standard
19:12<rpetre>a DE is the collection of all the bells and whistles you consider as environment (task bar, calendar, clock, so on)
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19:12<rpetre>cmr: well, they still handle just the windows, not their content
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19:13<cmr>rpetre: True enough.
19:13<cmr>Compiz used the most resources on a regular basis than anything else
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21:13<Cirux>Hey community!
21:13<Cirux>Somebody is using "supervisord" ?
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21:23<user01>is anyone using iceweasel backports fro squeeze?
21:24<user01>I was wondering if crashes your browser too :)
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21:29<johnkn63>Hi I have an ibus table and a font that I wish to make into debian packages and submit where should I start
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21:30<philwyett>user01, As there is no iceweasel in the backports rep for squeeze. Maybe you should say where you acquired it.
21:31<user01>philwyett, let me check!
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21:31<babilen> most likely
21:31<user01>babilen, yep that one
21:32<user01> crashes it every time :P
21:32<user01>works on google chrome :)
21:32<Hydroxide>user01: if you have flashplugin-nonfree installed, try update-flashplugin-nonfree as root
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21:33<Hydroxide>user01: probably an issue with out of date flash
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21:34<user01>Hydroxide, --install?
21:34<Hydroxide>user01: yep
21:34<user01>update-flashplugin-nonfree alone just prints instructions
21:34<user01>Hydroxide, ok
21:34<Hydroxide>I think I mean --install
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21:35<Hydroxide> doesn't crash my debian sid iceweasel, and there's no obvious use of flash, but it does load some javascript that has swf in its filename
21:35<user01>ERROR: wget failed to download
21:35<Hydroxide>and I do have adblock on
21:35<Hydroxide>*adblock plus
21:35<user01>Hydroxide, maybe i need the adblock
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21:37<Hydroxide>user01: you could install adblock plus if you want - some version of it is even in debian, though I installed it from via iceweasel myself. and you might need to download the flashplugin-nonfree from wheezy or sid, possibly - it's no longer flash player 10 for amd64, they're up to 11
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21:37<Hydroxide>(yay accidental spinal tap reference)
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21:38<Hydroxide>user01: the newer flashplugin-nonfree can be gotten from
21:39<user01>Hydroxide, thanks! That's probably it
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21:39<user01>ad block plus doesnt stop it
21:39<Hydroxide>it's definitely worth updating your flash anyway, as long as you're keeping it installed, since old versions are insecure
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21:40<Hydroxide>c33s: hi
21:41<divine9>regarding flash.. i wonder if using xbmc for flash video would be more secure than using your web browser.. although i realize flash is more that streaming video, might be worth the minor inconvenience no?
21:42<Hydroxide>divine9: well, for videos on youtube, you can opt into their html5 trial at and often skip needing flash at all. for some flash videos, gnash works nicely too and can be properly security-supported by debian. there are also downloading tools for lots of the video sites, not just youtube
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21:42<Hydroxide>most of those downloading tools are also in debian
21:42<Hydroxide>you can then watch them with vlc, mplayer, etc
21:43<user01>Hydroxide, flash 11 is probably insecure too though we just dont know yet ;)
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21:44<Hydroxide>user01: I'm not disagreeing :) you can always uninstall flash if you don't need it - might even make more stable - or install flashblock so that it only loads when you decide you need it on certain sites
21:44<user01>Hydroxide, hmmm just tried to install and i get the same error: ERROR: wget failed to download
21:44<user01>thats fp10 . . .
21:45<user01>lets see
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21:46<Hydroxide>user01: this is after doing dpkg -i on that deb you just downloaded, as root?
21:47<user01>Hydroxide, yep
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21:48<Hydroxide>user01: odd. for me not only did it not act that way, it just downloaded a new flash player 11 update when I tested now :) try dpkg --purge flashplugin-nonfree and then reinstall the newly downloaded deb
21:48<Hydroxide>the new one should be version 2.8.3 (it's just debian's wrapper, not flash itself)
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21:48<Hydroxide>maybe 1:2.8.3 depending on how it shows the version
21:48<c33s>question: where is the _correct_ location, to put custom scripts for the root user (like a script on a webserver for createing everything needed for a new webuser)? is it /bin, /usr/local/bin,...? /usr/local/scripts is mentioned in
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21:49<Hydroxide>c33s: typically /usr/local/sbin
21:49<Hydroxide>c33s: no idea what /usr/local/scripts would be
21:49<Hydroxide>it's nonstandard
21:49-!-Alam_Squeeze [quasselcor@2001:470:1f07:238:1e6f:65ff:fed3:eba8] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:49<Hydroxide>if it's a custom script meant for all users including non-root, then /usr/local/bin
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21:49<user01>Hydroxide, 2.8.3
21:50<user01>Hydroxide, ill try dpkg again
21:50<Hydroxide>user01: right. I'm just thinking that the purge and reinstall cycle might possibly help
21:50<Hydroxide>dpkg --purge flashplugin-nonfree and then dpkg -i on that deb
21:50*dpkg drinks a glass of salty water, sticks his fingers down his throat and throws up flashplugin-nonfree and then dpkg -i on that deb all over hydroxide and deavid...
21:50-!-CompWizrd [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:50*Hydroxide eyes dpkg warily
21:50<c33s>Hydroxide: thank you very much. can you guide me to the correct location where i can find this in the debian manual (or the right keywords to search for it)?
21:51<user01>Hydroxide, purged it and it said the same . . . maybe i need to close browsers
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21:52<Hydroxide>c33s: Debian follows the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard, with a very small number of exceptions, which is online in several formats at (also linked from and separately online at
21:53<Hydroxide>c33s: if you have the debian-policy package installed, it's also in several formats at /usr/share/doc/debian-policy/fhs/ on your system
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21:53<Hydroxide>c33s: most linux distributions follow that standard, though usually less strictly and with more deviations than Debian.
21:54<c33s>Hydroxie: thank you again. helped really much. can i quote you at stackexchange? i would post your answers there so they might help other people too.
21:54<c33s>* Hydroxide:^^
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21:55<Hydroxide>c33s: sure, feel free. the information I said is all public stuff anyway.
21:55<Hydroxide>I really have no idea who came up with /usr/local/scripts. lots of weird advice floating around on the internet.
21:56<c33s>Hydroxide: should i remove your username from the chat quote?
21:57-!-jrib [] has joined #debian
21:57<Hydroxide>c33s: you could leave it in, remove it, substitute my real name (listed in my /whois), however you like. it's not exactly advice I'm afraid of people connecting to me :)
21:58<c33s>Hydroxide: i just leave your nick in :) thanks again for the info. its great to have people on the net who care to answer. n1
21:58<Hydroxide>probably no need to criticize the guy who suggested /usr/local/scripts though - I imagine it wasn't intentionally nonstandard, just the guy didn't know what was usual
21:59<Hydroxide>in many situations, debian has better support than windows and mac :)
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22:01<c33s>yeah you are right
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22:04<hope>been "using" ubuntu since hardy herron and now looking for direction.
22:04<hope>looking for help w/ multiple displays in a 11.10 studio install
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22:05<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu ( instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian>.
22:05<hope>ok, sorry....newbie mistake.:-)
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22:07<divine9>If I want highest level of security in a sensitive enviornment, should I avoid using gui, or is base install of Debian considered secure? the only thing that I would need gui for is web browser, otherwise everthing else is text/server
22:09<blarson>divine9: There are non-gui web browsers that are more secure since they dont' understand javascript etc.
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22:11<divine9>blarson: That's what I was thinking.. Do they organize the page well? I've only played around with lynx, its so-so
22:12<ml|>take a look a w3m
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22:13<c33s>Hydroxide: again, thank you for the link to the manual, very informative.
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22:21<Hydroxide>c33s: you're welcome
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22:22<user01>Hydroxide, well i manually installed flash from adobe site and it still crashes on :)
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22:23<Hydroxide>user01: ok :)
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22:26<user01>Hydroxide, it works in chrome though
22:26<user01>Hydroxide, something wrong in iceweasel
22:28<Hydroxide>user01: I can't keep working on this right now, sorry. as I said, it works in my iceweasel on sid. hopefully others can help. try disabling other extensions, maybe.
22:29<user01>Hydroxide, what version do you use in sid?
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22:30<Hydroxide>user01: yes
22:30-!-CompWizdr [] has joined #debian
22:30<user01>Hydroxide, maybe i can just install that one?
22:30<Hydroxide>user01: would provide it
22:30<user01>Hydroxide, im running stable though, they are providing the one in sid?
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22:31<Hydroxide>user01: yeah, you want the 'release' version
22:31<Hydroxide>user01: will tell you the lines to add to your sources.list
22:31<user01>Hydroxide, yep thats the one ive been using
22:31<user01>Hydroxide, was thinking about beta
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22:32<Hydroxide>user01: I need to go do other stuff now, sorry. maybe other people can help. good luck.
22:32<user01>Hydroxide, thanks for your help
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22:38<yron>Hello ?
22:38<yron>Is there anybody in there ?
22:38<JoeKickass>hundreds of us...
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22:46<yron>I want to install the new kernel 3.0.0 and after "apt-get install linux-source-3.0.0", I "cp" the sources of the kernel to my user home (/home/yron/src) so I read I needed to "cd" to /usr/src/ in the goal to make a symbolic link "ln -s ~/src/linux-3.0.0 linux" but the shell return to me it's impossible to creat the symbolic link because he already exist so how to delete the symbolic link please ?
22:46<yron>I swear you understand my request...
22:46<yron>cause my english is sometimes bad
22:46<dpkg>[kernel-package] To compile a kernel The Debian Way(tm) "aptitude install kernel-package build-essential libncurses5-dev" and follow the instructions in /usr/share/doc/kernel-package/README.gz. You should also ask me about <make-kpkg>, <kp mantra> and <kernel build-deps>.
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22:49<chealer>yron: why are you trying to compile it?
22:49-!-Tod4Dd [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:50<yron>Because I want to test the new kernel on my Wheezy
22:51<zykotick9>yron, but wheezy already uses 3.0.0-1
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22:53<yron>No, I still use the 2.6.x kernel
22:54<jordanm>yron: just install the binary kernel package
22:55<yron>I make it yesterday and when I boot with the kernel 3.0.x from GRUB, he doesn't works... black screen but not a kernel panic screen
22:55<yron>so I make the other way: compiling it
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22:58<yron>Or how to install it by apt-get update ? How to upgrade my "old" kernel ?
22:58<yron>apt-get upgrade*
22:59-!-jrib [] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5]
22:59<yron>as Debian Testing > upgrade to sid ?
23:01<zykotick9>yron, i wasn't joking - wheezy should install 3.0.0 as a regular update. If you use apt-get, then "apt-get update && apt-get upgrade" should install/update your kernel.
23:03<yron>I was on Debian Squeeze and to be on Wheezy I change my sources.list. I delete "squeeze" and I rename it by "wheezy".
23:04-!-fabrice [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:04<yron>Do you wanna see my sources.list and my preferences files for more information ? :o
23:04<yron>If it can help you to understand :o
23:05<zykotick9>yron, sorry, i thought you said "I want to test the new kernel on my Wheezy". I'm not sure 3.0 is a good idea on squeeze. Sorry I can't help you - good luck.
23:06<yron>I'm on Wheezy now... Even Debian say it.
23:06<yron>by the system monitor
23:07<yron>DEbian Testing (Wheezy) kernel 2.6.32-5 amd64 GNOME 3.2
23:07<yron>I'm not crazy...
23:07<yron>Read it please
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23:11<JoeKickass>yron: apt-cache policy linux-image-amd64
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23:12<yron>and ?
23:13<JoeKickass>it tells you what versions you have available. You may try installing one with something like ''apt-get install linux-image-amd64=3.0.0+40''
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23:15<veritas>Linux is pointless. Want a UNIX desktop ? Use MacOSX. Need a server solution ? Use FreeBSD or OpenBSD. Need imbedded solution use IOS or NetBSD.
23:15<veritas>Linux has no reason to even exist
23:15<veritas>FreeBSD 8.2-RELEASE-p2 FreeBSD 8.2-RELEASE-p2 #4: Mon Oct 10 16:10:10 EDT 2011 root@:/usr/src/sys/i386/compile/ELITE i386
23:15<veritas>linux is for bitches and dumb ones at that
23:15-!-veritas [] has quit []
23:15<cmr>Well then.
23:16<JoeKickass>it says you're running kernel 3.0.0+39
23:16<yron>veritas is a fuck*** troll.
23:16-!-linq [~user@] has joined #debian
23:17<cmr>(Although he neglects that bsd is dead/dieing)
23:17<JoeKickass>"fuck***" ... ??? 0.o
23:17<zykotick9>yron, i believe the *** is suppose to cover the "bad" part of the work, not the "ing" ;)
23:17<yron>Yeah... oops
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23:18<yron>oot@yron:~# uname -r
23:18-!-linq [~user@] has quit []
23:18<yron>so wtf ? o_O
23:19<zykotick9>yron, when you boot up does grub give you a choice of kernels?
23:19<yron>When GRUB runs... I choose the 2.6.x...
23:19-!-jasonsmr [] has joined #debian
23:19<yron>3.0.x or 2.6.x but the kernel 3.0 failled to boot (without a kernel panic) so I need to boot with the 2.6.x version
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23:23<yron>aptitude search linux-kernel returns to me linux-images and linux-headers... what shall I do ?
23:23<yron>What to install first ? Headers or images ?
23:23<yron>for 3.0 kernel version (amd64 of course)
23:24<JoeKickass>yron: what happens when you boot the 3.0 kernel? What video driver do you use? Can you attempt to ssh to the machine after it boots?
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23:25<yron>He loads and a black screen appear with a " _" that flashing
23:26<MaryWanna>Can i update my macbook pros firmware using linux?
23:26<yron>I never try to use ssh after it boots
23:27<yron>yhe black screen looks as a boot screen
23:27<yron>before GRUB.
23:27<JoeKickass>the cursor just blinks forever?
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23:29<cmr>MaryWanna: This is #debian. For support with debian.
23:29<MaryWanna>so you are admitting you dont know jack shit about linux?
23:29-!-gamamb [] has joined #debian
23:29<MaryWanna>thanks for nothing bruh
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23:35<JoeKickass>yron: well I'd say stick with the 2.6 kernel, and try a new version of the 3.0 kernel later, or try upgrading other things, not sure what. See what "apt-get dist-upgrade " wants to do... however I would NOT recommend actually approving that command
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23:38<yron>dist-upgrade doesn't do anything: 0 upgrades, etc...
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23:40<yron>I delete the kernel 3.0 and reinstall it now..
23:40<JoeKickass>yron: what kind of computer is this? Can you pastebin the output of "lspci -nn" please?
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23:44<yron>It's a iMedia Packard Bell computer
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23:48<JoeKickass>yron: ah... there is a problem to do with the nvidia/wheezy combination... You may find help with that in the wheezy/sid channel: #debian-next
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23:51<yron>i'd install nvidia-kernel-source
23:51<yron>few mounth ago
23:51<yron>he's the source of the problem ?
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23:52<JoeKickass>I don't know. I am running wheezy but not nvidia
23:52-!-Wyzard [] has quit [Quit: Client exiting]
23:53<yron>it's the nvidia privator driver...
23:53<JoeKickass>the source of the problem
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23:53<yron>ok thx i need to reboot
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---Logclosed Thu Nov 03 00:00:53 2011