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#debian IRC Logs for 2011-12-22

---Logopened Thu Dec 22 00:00:51 2011
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00:46<calmwinds>Hello can someone tell me the history of man 3 puts command
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00:48<nevyn>calmwinds: the history of puts? or the history of man or the history of man 3
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01:08<tp43>hi, I deleted my ubuntu partitions but update-grub2 is still finding it and then complains that rror: cannot find a GRUB drive for /dev/sda2. Check your
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01:10<jm_>!tell tp43 -about ubuntu
01:10<tp43>jm_, no, I am in debian
01:10<tp43>anyway, let me reboot and see, brb
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01:14<ayaka>how to let tsclient support copy?
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01:20<tp43>is it possible to re-partition my swap partition because I have free space before and after which I would like to partition
01:21<ayaka>tp43, yes,but you had better to use live cd to do that
01:22<tp43>ayaka, what about with debian netinstall, can I do it with that?
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01:23<ayaka>tp43, yes,but you need a full imaine,I haven't tried it
01:24<tp43>ayaka, thanks
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01:40<tp43>I am getting boot error: Starting open sound system failed(no kernel modules), so I went and installed a bunch of oss packages I saw from search apt-cache and the error still comes up, and on top of that, my alsa sound isn't working anymore, vlc says update the lib and when I run alsamixer, it says not found
01:41<ayaka>tp43, why use oss,we use alsa
01:42<tp43>ayaka, ok, I wil remove it
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01:49<tp43>ayaka, yep, removed it, its fine again, and now there is no error message either
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01:51<MrFrood>ayaka: why, umm on some of my older hardware it sounds better, and for the true audiophile I'm told OSS has lower latencies than alsa - but yeah for 99& of users ALSA us the better choice
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01:53*__dan__ hoping someone can provide some guidance, i'm considering moving from ubuntu to debian wheeze with kde desktop
01:53<__dan__>it would be real nice to be able to continue using ubuntu one to back up stuff with deja-dup
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01:53<__dan__>any idea how easy / hard this would be?
01:54<MrFrood>__dan__: start with stable, only move to testing when conftable with the way Debian works
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01:54<__dan__>ah stable is too old
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01:55<__dan__>and i am reasonably familiar with squeeze already on the server side
01:55<__dan__>admittedly this will be the 1st debian install for me that has a gui hehe
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01:55<MrFrood>__dan__: squeeze not old in debain terms :|
01:55<__dan__>no hehe true enough :)
01:56<__dan__>but kde version is like 4.4.x i think
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01:56<__dan__>would prefer 4.7.x as the performance is better
01:56<__dan__>although for that i think i will need to have a hybrid between wheezy & sid
01:56<DennisTheTiger>Running Gnome 2.30.1 on Squeeze. I've noticed that, every time I copy pictures over from my digital camera, the icons will auto-rotate when they are generated. Thsi poses a problem, because the underlying image does not rotate, and I find it incredibly disorienting when I go and review them to rotate so that the subjects do not look like they're defying gravity. How in the hell do I deactivate this behavior so that I don't go
01:56<DennisTheTiger> sane?!
01:57<MrFrood>__dan__: if already familiar with debian, install squeeze and then move it to testing
01:57<__dan__>yeah i was thinking that, i have the squeeze netinst here
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01:57<__dan__>probably just install the basics & then change sources.list & aptitude install plasma-desktop
01:57<__dan__>see what happens :)
01:57<MrFrood>__dan__: there is dedicated testing/unstable help available on #debian-next
01:58<__dan__>cool thx, cos i would really like to have ubuntu one running on it
01:59<tp43>I can't get my usb mic to work, anyone know how?
02:01<tp43>__dan__, why would'nt you just install testing from the start?
02:01<jardiamj>__dan__, I did exactly the same, I installed squeeze first then I just changed the repositories in sources.list to wheezy and dist-upgrade..
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02:01<jsnikeris>Can anyone explain this? I'm having trouble accessing my display:
02:01<tp43>jardiamj, why didn't you just install testing to begin with?
02:01<__dan__>tp43: i already have the netinst for squeeze, plus the snapshot isos from wheezy have been known not to work in the past
02:02<ZekeS>The testing installer actually didn't work on my debian box (hai pata_macio) :/
02:02<tp43>__dan__, bandwidth issue, they only 200mb
02:02<jardiamj>tp43, because I already had Squeeze disc to install..
02:02<tp43>maybe you can change sources during the install process of stable
02:03<tp43>jardiamj, oh, ok
02:03<valdyn>its recommended to install stable first then upgrade
02:03<tp43>valdyn, really
02:03<tp43>what is this fglx?
02:03<tp43>should I install it
02:03<valdyn>tp43: fglrx
02:04<tp43>valdyn, yeah, thats what I meant
02:04<jardiamj>tp43, is there any problem with that approach?
02:04<jm_>jsnikeris: what is fglrxinfo?
02:04<tp43>proprietary eh
02:04<valdyn>tp43: i cant say if you should its not always better than the free radeon driver
02:04<valdyn>jm_: something like glxinfo
02:05<tp43>yeah true, the free one is working fine for me so why switch, except, I can't play vlc and an internet flash vid at same time, I have to stop vlc
02:06<valdyn>tp43: why cant you? playback gets choppy?
02:06<jsnikeris>jm_: I get the same thing w/ glxinfo
02:06<tp43>valdyn, playback just stops after a few secs
02:06<jsnikeris>Why is it unable to open the display if 'who' shows that my user has that display opened?
02:07<valdyn>jsnikeris: tell us the error then we might be able to tell you the issue
02:07<jsnikeris>I should also mention, that I'm executing glxinfo by sshing into the machine
02:07<jsnikeris>Error: unable to open display :0
02:07<valdyn>jsnikeris: ok, that suffices too: use ssh -X
02:07<dpkg>You can run X11 apps securely over an ssh connection without <xhost> nor X TCP support. Enable X11Forwarding _on the remote server_ (/etc/ssh/sshd_config) and install xauth (squeeze, lenny) or xbase-clients (etch) on both the client and the server. Then "ssh -X" from the client and run X apps on the remote machine. See also <root x> and <cygwin sshx>.
02:08<tp43>jm_, did you ever configure a usb mic before?
02:08<jsnikeris>Well, i'm not actually trying to run any X apps remotely
02:08<valdyn>tp43: usb sound generally just works
02:08<valdyn>tp43: the most likely culprit in this case is you
02:08<valdyn>tp43: you could be using the wrong sound device when "testing" your usb mic
02:09<tp43>valdyn, hmm, how do I test, when I google, it isn't working, let me tell you the whole story
02:09<valdyn>tp43: i dont use a mic to google
02:09<jm_>jsnikeris: for ssh DISPLAY should be localhost:10, not :0
02:09<jsnikeris>I've got a program that needs to use the X display to access my video card to do some computation on the GPU
02:10<jm_>tp43: well I have USB audio headset working, but I didn't have to configure anything in particular
02:10<valdyn>jsnikeris: its obvious from the error that youre trying to run an X app
02:10<jsnikeris>jm_: Error: unable to open display localhost:10
02:10<tp43>valdyn, first I had xfce, and I couldn't get it working, then I installed kde and it worked on its own, then i saw an oss error during boot, so I installed it, and the sound stopped working completely, so I removed oss, and now sound is back to working, but usb mic isn't wrking again
02:10<jm_>jsnikeris: the thing is you should not set it itself - ssh needs to set it
02:10<tp43>jm_, hmm, usuually it does
02:10<valdyn>jsnikeris: and i gave you one solution but maybe you want to use a preexisting remote X display: then youd set DISPLAY to :0
02:11<jm_>tp43: well other than making it my default card for alsa
02:11<tp43>jm_, what program do you use for the mic, cause I use google chat, but I don't want to keep testing with it
02:11<jsnikeris>valdyn: I'm trying to run glxinfo, which isn't an X program
02:11<valdyn>jsnikeris: glxinfo *is* and X program
02:11<tp43>jm_, How did you do that, I only want to make it default mic, no sound card, cause it is only mic, no phones
02:12<jsnikeris>valdyn: I was uner the impression it just prints some text to the console
02:12<jsnikeris>$ glxinfo -display :0
02:12<jsnikeris>No protocol specified
02:12<jsnikeris>Error: unable to open display :0
02:12<valdyn>jsnikeris: theres no such thing as "just printing text", unless you know a way to magically "invent" text
02:13<valdyn>jsnikeris: there might not be a remote running X server, :0 cant fix that part
02:13<jm_>tp43: I only use it in virtualbox for my win7 guest, but I have tested arecord now and it works
02:13<jsnikeris>$ who
02:13<jsnikeris>joe tty7 2011-12-22 01:50 (:0)
02:13<jsnikeris>joe pts/1 2011-12-22 01:50 (
02:14<jsnikeris>that tty7 is the :0 display
02:14<jm_>tp43: well snd-usb-audio module has index 0, but this won't work for you if you only have a mic
02:14<valdyn>jsnikeris: DISPLAY=:0 glxinfo
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02:14<jsnikeris>valdyn: same thing
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02:14<valdyn>jsnikeris: theres no joe logged in then into that X
02:15<jm_>ahh he's using ssh but wants to use X server running on the system he ssh-ed into, not the one ssh was started on :)
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02:15<jsnikeris>jm_: correct
02:15<valdyn>jsnikeris: i hope youre not using ssh -X right now
02:15<jsnikeris>valdyn: I'm pretty sure that user is logged in into X
02:15<jsnikeris>valdyn: I'm not
02:16<valdyn>jsnikeris: youre rightm, this doesnt work anymore, i tried too
02:16<jsnikeris>I just edited /etc/gdm3/daemon.conf to enable automatic login
02:16<valdyn>jsnikeris: could be gdm3 related, i cant know
02:17<valdyn>jsnikeris: i *just* know that gdm3 broke something along the way there
02:17<jsnikeris>ah gotcha
02:17<jsnikeris>so your remember it working prior to this
02:17<valdyn>jsnikeris: yes
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02:20<jsnikeris>valdyn: can you do a DISPLAY=:0 glxinfo from a local virtual terminal?
02:20<jsnikeris>like on tty1?
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02:33<tp43>I finally did it my friends, I created an .asoundrc file I put it pcm.!default blah... and now it works, thanks guys for you help
02:34<tp43>I wonder, can I get a dashboard, like in gnome or kde, going in xfce?
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02:36<tp43>is it possible to sleep(suspend to ram) in debian squeeze, i mean does it work out of the box?
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02:37<tp43>yep it seems so it does
02:38<jm_>tp43: with dashboard you mean panel?
02:38<jm_>tp43: as for suspend, just try it yes
02:38<tp43>jm_, yep, and it worked, but a few years ago it wasn't
02:39<jm_>tp43: there were alternatives for suspend in the past too, so you should have tried those
02:40<tp43>jm_, in kde, you have some screenlets on the desktop, and then you can visit the desktop with the desktop shaded out, like expose in Mac, and in gnome, same thing, the screenlets dont show up on desktop necessarily
02:41<tp43>aah, who cares about screenlets, never mind
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02:47<jm_>yeah it doesn't look like that's available in xfce4
02:47<jm_>(had to look what it does :)
02:50<tp43>jm_, same thing is show desktop in a way really, if you could put applets or stuff in xfce
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02:59<jm_>tp43: yeah - a feature skippy provides
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03:21<jardiamj>ola jose, que idioma hablas, this channel is in English
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04:07<And1>Hey there. Any ideas how I can set the default audio device for pulse? Or set one audio device to be 'off' in pavucontrol per default?
04:08<nevyn>load a null sink
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04:10<And1>nevyn: And how would I do this?
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04:20<nevyn>pactl load-module null-sink
04:20<nevyn>then you should have a new 2ch sink in pavuctl that drops everything sent to it.
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04:31<slav0nic>hi, anybody tried iceweasel 9 ? some sites (like gmail) doesn't work =\
04:34<slav0nic>jm_, tnx
04:34<jm_>slav0nic: no worries
04:34<And1>nevyn: Mh, but I think I don't want a new 2ch sink? I just want to deactivate my internal audio...
04:35<jm_>and1: change indexes for your sound card modules (0 = the default then)
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04:36<And1>jm_: Where? I used to do it in /etc/modprobe.d/ but it seems it doesn't work anymore since using pa.
04:37<jm_>And1: did you check if they are listed properly in /proc/asound/cards?
04:37<And1>jm_: Yep, they are listed properly.
04:38<jm_>And1: ok in that case I don't know, I managed to avoid PA so far
04:38<And1>Maybe I could set the default_sink in /etc/pulse/client.conf ...
04:42<And1>Though how would I get the names of my sinks. : o
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05:00<nevyn>what do you actually want to do?
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05:10<Black_Prince>slav0nic: Iceweasel works here without any problems.
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05:14<tp43>jm_ whats skippy?
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05:16<tp43>jm_, you use skippy? I have compiz, its called scaling, but the screenlets thing does similar except it shows your favourite widgets/screenlets, instead of open windows
05:17<tp43>you skippy skippy is better to use maybe?
05:17<jm_>tp43: no, my window manager offers me a list of windows on each desktop and that's good enough for me (I need this very rarely)
05:19<tp43>jm_, thanks for informing me about skipping, great thing about it is that it runs on the light window managers light fluxbox, open box, compiz doesn't run on those
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05:28<tp43>but then you can just install xorg alone and run compiz
05:29<tp43>and compiz is noteably heavy to me
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05:37<tp43>Any opinions on: VirtualBox VS. Open VM?
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05:45<scinl>tp43: virtualbox, I've found to be true, seems to handle graphics-intensive operations better than OpenVM. As a bonus, I'm also a big Solaris nerd so I'm as close to an Oracle fanboy as one can get before they put on a suit with a red tie.
05:46<tp43>scinl, i went with VirtualBox, so now i guess I can install an os eh
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05:47<babilen>kvm is worth a look to (if you processor has vt-x)
05:48<babilen>*too *your :(
05:49<tp43>will it work if I have my operating system iso in my /home dir, or do I need the cd?
05:51<tp43>actually, i have partitioning question, my system is like this: sda1 -25gigs, then 10gigs free, 700mb swap, then 30gig free, Can I move my swap over so my free 10 & 30 are together, or can I create a 40gig partition without moving swap?
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05:56<dukus>Hi all, does anyone have a minute to help me troubleshoot a problem with apache2 virtualhosts?
05:57<dukus>-- displaying the default index.html page for a vhost with different DocumentRoot
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06:01<tp43>dukus, you are hosting your websites from home?
06:01<tp43>dukus, apache2 vhost are supposed to be easy, but I could never do it
06:01<dukus>yes on a local test box
06:01<dukus>i have set up test.local in /etc/hosts
06:01<tp43>test box, then you can just create directories
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06:02<Myon>you can dump the vhost config using ". /etc/apache2/envvars ; apache2 -S"
06:02<tp43>dukus, test box for web server admin job, or for doing web site design?
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06:02<Myon>apache2 vhosts are not that hard, but it's easy to get them wrong
06:03<tp43>Myon, I know, that what I said, hehe, I went crazy for two days, but no luck
06:04<dukus>VirtualHost configuration:
06:04<dukus>wildcard NameVirtualHosts and _default_ servers:
06:04<dukus>*:80 is a NameVirtualHost
06:04<dukus> default server uktqvdb6web (/etc/apache2/sites-enabled/000-default:3)
06:04<dukus> port 80 namevhost uktqvdb6web (/etc/apache2/sites-enabled/000-default:3)
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06:04<Myon>tp43: it's not really "just create directories" - if you want that, you need some massvhost module
06:04<tp43>Myon, no, I finally gave up and just started using directories instead
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06:05<tp43>Myon, I never got it going, even those instructions are straight forward and easy to follow, it never worked for me, plus with directories, adding/removing sites it just a mkdir / rm -r
06:06<tp43>Thats why I was saying if you need to test web design code, then better to just use directories
06:06<dukus>tp43, i need to use vhosts as i will be mirroring my live server
06:07<dukus>using directories will involve changing paths everywhere in my web apps
06:07<Myon>this looks about right
06:07<tp43>dukus, you can't use paths if you are mirroring, I don't think, you need to use vhosts for that
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06:08<Myon>what's in test.local.conf ?
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06:10<Myon>and http://test.local/ is showing the wrong file?
06:10<dukus>yeah its showing the default apache2 index.html
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06:12<EmleyMoor>Is iceweasel-l10n-en-gb for version 9 packaged yet?
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06:15<dukus>any idea?
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06:18<tp43>dukus, did you try the links I mention
06:18<metaspike>dpkg bot has this on vhosts, if you decide to go that way. interesting stuff:
06:18<dpkg>You are person #1 to send an unparseable request, metaspike
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06:19<tp43>dukus, there need to be link between the dns names and the directories, so when someone enters the dns, it goes to server ip and then apache uses the dns used to direct to appropriate directory
06:19<dukus>yeah i had a look through but i'm familiar with how to set up vhosts, i need to work out why it's not working in this instance
06:20<dukus>my /etc/hosts file has: test.local
06:20<tp43>did you try /usr/local/apache2/bin/httpd -S
06:20<dukus>bash: /usr/local/apache2/bin/httpd: No such file or directory
06:21<tp43>dukus, well replace with whereever your apache2 is installed
06:21<tp43>httpd is old, now its called apache2 of course
06:21<tp43>try locate or which
06:21<dukus>yeah i already pasted the output of that
06:23<tp43>try just test.local in the address bar
06:25<dukus>same thing
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06:29<tp43>dukus, hmm, try the links then, or do your current setup again from scratch cause maybe its just a type probably eh
06:29<Myon>dukus: try putting test.local on a different address
06:29<Myon> test.local
06:29<Myon>so it doesn't get munged to localhost
06:29<tp43>post all the files you edited?
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06:30<tp43>including filenames
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06:33<tp43>can I create a new swap, mount it, and unmount the current swap and make the changes permanent?
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06:34<Myon>tp43: you can add and remove swap on the fly, yes
06:34<tp43>Myon, how?
06:35<metaspike>swapon / swapoff :)
06:35<Myon>and permanent == vi /etc/fstab
06:35<tp43>Myon, and to make the changes permanent, so when I reboots, it looks for the new one instead of the old
06:35<tp43>sweet, thanks
06:35<tp43>so I can have two swaps at once eh?
06:36<EmleyMoor>Umpteen, if you like
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06:36<tp43>I never ever see my swap being used, does it actually ever get used?
06:37<tp43>I mean, what if I make 200mb instead of 700mb?
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06:40<alan_>Hi, I'm totally new to Debian/Kde and have installed KnewtworkManager. I've created an icon on the desktop but when I click it nothing happens? I'm trying to get an intel 3495 ABG network card working and am (trying to) follow the tutorial on Can anyone help me out? cheers
06:41<tp43>alan_, do you know you network?
06:42<alan_>I don't understand what you mean, sorry!
06:42<tp43>alan_, ssid, password
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06:43<alan_>Yes, i'm on UPC but i'm unsure if the UPC part of the "UPCXXXXXX" is part of the ssid?
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06:44<tp43>alan_, for me, my favourite program to use to determine the network ID name, is wifi-radar, you can install it, and then you can scan all the wifi's in you area, once you find the one you need, then go back to your wifi network manager, and enter that name, as well as the password
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06:45<alan_>tp43, Ok cheers
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06:49<tp43>if I edit fstab, where can I get the uuid?
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06:50<alan_>tp43, found the network name cheers. Any idea why KNetworkManager doesn't launch?
06:51<tp43>alan_, what do you mean, it won't start?
06:51<Myon>I'd have a look in ~/.xsession-errors
06:52<alan_>tp43, yes it won't start for some reason
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06:53<tp43>alan_, check out .xsession-errors, also there are other programs probably
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06:56<tp43>alan_, did you see wpasupplicant, I think it is a good one, assuming you are connecting to wpa network, which majority are these days
06:57<Myon>tp43: that's being used by any frontend, no need to start it manually
06:57<tp43>Myon, hehe, yeah you are right
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06:58<tp43>I just did an apt-cache search, I didn't even install ipw2200 over here, cause I am afraid of hackers
06:59<tp43>I must be blind but I can't find the cfdisk type code for swap
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07:00<tp43>found it
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07:01<tp43>what do you think of a 400mb swap partition?
07:01<tp43>I don't think Linux using swap anymore except for maybe 10mb
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07:03<Myon>you obviously never tried suspend-to-disk
07:04<Myon>(nor read about the math behind the OOM killer)
07:04<tp43>Myon, that uses swap eh? Cause when I monitor disk, I never see swap being used very much
07:04<MrFrood>tp43: try doing some video editing on an average domestic computer and tell me Linux does not use swap
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07:04<tp43>MrFrood, I see, same goes for inkscape and gimp?
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07:05<MrFrood>tp43: I'd guess so if working with very large images
07:05<tp43>MrFrood, Do you think have a larger swap will increase the speed for inkscape and gimp, cause it is the heaviest programs I ever run
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07:05<Myon>buy more RAM
07:05<MrFrood>tp43: no idea
07:06<tp43>Myon, buy, I would buy a bed first
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07:06<tp43>ok, I am not gonna try to save space on ram, I will just use the default 700mb
07:06<MrFrood>tp43: read the message from dpkg
07:07<tp43>MrFrood, I did, but I am not waisting 2gigs on swap, I am just never see it being used at 700mb
07:07<tp43>Maybe I should run inkscape and monitor swap then
07:09<MrFrood>tp43: with 700mb I'm guessing you will find flash a worse abuser of ram than inkscape
07:09<tp43>MrFrood, flash maxes my cpu, but my ram never maxes out?
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07:12<tp43>MrFrood, ok, I have vlc playing, and then I started a flash video on chrome, cpu is maxing out , but ram is less than a quarter, it went up about 1% since starting the flash video
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07:13<tp43>like 80mb, from about 300mb to 400mb ram usage
07:13<tp43>swap didnt budge, now I am gonna try inkscape
07:13<raschipi>i use my swap a lot for compilation
07:14<MrFrood>tp43: don't forget what Myon said about suspend
07:14<tp43>ok, no I got inkscape to freeze by hitting duplicate like crazy, and my swap or ram didn't budge
07:15<tp43>I doubt suspend to disk take more than 50mb
07:15<Myon>maybe you should try solving real problems and not waste time on optimizing stuff you don't need
07:15<tp43>Basically, I am thinking of making swap 100mb
07:16<tp43>haha, why you guys getting defensive over swap
07:16<Myon>tp43: how to you dump your X GBs of RAM to 50MB swap?
07:16<MrFrood>tp43: are you using an unusually small hd?
07:17<MrFrood>tp43: because you will be back here when things start to wonky because your swap is too small
07:17<tp43>yeah, I only got 80gigs here,
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07:18<tp43>yeah, 300mb ram
07:18<metaspike>tp43... a swap file is essentially a fallback when avaliable ram is occupied or for suspension (in which case, swap size should be greater than the avaliable amount of ram) - in anycase, without it, or without enough of it, things will get really slow if that extra space isn't avaliable. simple as that :)
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07:18<tp43>2gig ram is useless, 512 is all you ever need for average basic user
07:18<MrFrood>tp43: I reckon that 80gigs is enough that you can afford to follow dpkg's advice
07:19<metaspike>isn't avaliable / if (or when) it's needed.
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07:19<Myon>metaspike: s/get slow/crash/ :D
07:19<tp43>cool, I am just saying, as a basic user, I've never exceeded 512mb in my life
07:20<metaspike>swap is insurance for the volitile data in your ram... that's a good way to think of it. I normally go 2x ram size for swap unless it's more than 4 gigs.
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07:22<tp43>metaspike, hmm, maybe, but I think this swap business is outdated, I mean, it is from the days when people has 64mb ad 128 mb ram, so people were making swap of 128, 256 mb, but if you ram is over 512mb, you swap will never even get used, so you may as well make it 300mb cause ram never gets full past that
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07:23<nevyn>what he said!
07:23<tp43>open monitor tool and tell me honest, what you swap is at, cause mine is at 10mb and never budges,
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07:24<tp43>swap is used, there is some placement there, but it is inactive, it doesn't budge
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07:24<nevyn>Swap: 4.6G 1.1G 3.5G
07:24<nevyn>on my 2gig laptop
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07:24<nevyn>swap lets you do more with less
07:24<makaveli>hae nevyn?
07:25<tp43>nevyn, what a you running, my computer says, swap: 0 mb of 700 mb
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07:25<tp43>nevyn, lol
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07:26<nevyn>the big pig is firefox/iceweasel
07:26<jm_>same here, it's using 0 bytes out of 16G and iceweasel got a lot better with version 7
07:26<tp43>You should make swap 10mb, unless you want to suspend to disk, cause aparantly that is saved in swap -quote Myon
07:27<bzed>tp43: nevyn is right. if you have applications which need some amounts of memory, but the application is idling around, the kernel will move it out to swap to have more space in ram for caches, for example
07:27<bzed>tp43: sorry, thats bullshit.
07:27<Myon>13:23 <Myon> bullshit
07:27<tp43>bzed, maybe ten years ago
07:27<Myon>it's all been said before :)
07:28<tp43>today, ram never runs out, only cpu's are getting maxed out
07:28*nevyn has more cycles than he knows what to do with
07:28<nevyn>I'm out of io and ram long before cpu cycles
07:28<nevyn>for my workloads
07:28<tp43>maybe if you open 20 programs at once, ok, let me see, I am gonna open as many programs as I can
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07:29<nevyn>ram never runs out because of swap.
07:30<tp43>ram never runs out cause its so huge these days
07:30<nevyn>tp43: what you're saying is car's run better if you cover half the radiator... now I've been in pit lane and seen someone with cardboard over half the radiator
07:30<nevyn>but for most people this is just untrue.
07:30<tp43>nevyn, are you even monitoring your ram, I just openned a bunch of program, and my ram went up like 50mbs max
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07:30<nevyn>my ram is always all in use.
07:30<Myon>tp43: please shut up until you read up on shared libraries and shared memory
07:30<bzed>tp43: I have a machine with 56GB ram *and* some swap usage to have more space for caches
07:31<tp43>I don't know about your car analogy, I am saying that swap is used when ram runs out but ram these days are so large that it never runs out so swap for intents and purposes is depreciated
07:31<nevyn>you're wrong
07:31<tp43>Myon, you shutup fuk head
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07:32<nevyn>ok that was kinda funny.
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07:48<Guest21379>Hi, I'm having trouble rotating the display on an old laptop; I've generated an xorg.conf with X -configure and put it in /etc/X11 then added Option "Rotate" "CW" to the device section to no avail. Any reason why this wouldn't work?
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07:52<SynrG>Guest21379: check your Xorg.0.log to see if the section you added it to is in fact used
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07:52<SynrG>wait ... CW? what's that?
07:53<SynrG>my xorg.conf man page says valid values are "normal", "left", "right", and "inverted"
07:53<SynrG>it also says "RandR 1.2-supporting drivers only". this implies some drivers don't support it. what chipset does your old laptop use?
07:54<alan_>Hi, when I open a window in kde and i click maximize, the window is still to small. How do I fix this? Cheers
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07:55<SynrG>Guest21379: does 'xrandr --output LVDS1 --rotate left' work? (or instead of LVDS1, whatever your output identifier is. use 'xrandr -q' to find out)
07:55<SynrG>Guest21379: if it doesn't, it's unlikely any xorg.conf setting would work
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08:13-!-mode/#debian [-o Myon] by Myon
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08:36<eagle>anybody here with experience with wacom tablet?
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08:36<Guest21379>Sorry for the delay, I had to pop out; what am I looking for in my xorg log?
08:37<Guest21379>I tried Right as well, when I googled it seemed to say that CW and CCW also work
08:38<Guest21379>diary@diary:~$ lspci | grep VGA
08:38<Guest21379>00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 82815 Chipset Graphics Controller (CGC) (rev 11)
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08:46<SynrG>Guest21379: Right or right? case may matter.
08:46<SynrG>Guest21379: did you try the xrandr commands i suggested?
08:47<Guest21379>I've tried with and without capitalisation
08:47<SynrG>Guest21379: generally, googling for answers is not a good strategy unless you know how to filter the results (e.g. does it apply to debian? does it apply to the release you're using? presumably squeeze)
08:47<SynrG>consider the doc that comes with the software authoritative (man xorg.conf)
08:48<SynrG>fine. did you try xrandr?
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08:49<Guest21379>I cant get the randr commands to work; not sure what identifier to use. randr seems to indicate that I should use Screen 0 but then gives "warning: output Screen 0 not found" (I did escape the space in the command)
08:50<SynrG>Guest21379: pastebin the output from 'xrandr -q' please
08:50<Myon>--output is something like VGA-0
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09:00<srougier>hello, can someone point me to some documentation explaining how to have same UID on different server ?
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09:01<abrotman>srougier: like with LDAP? or NIS?
09:02<srougier>like with /etc/passwd :-) the probleme is not "where" but debian package dynamicaly apply uid to programe
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09:02<srougier>so I end with different uid for the same application on 2 host
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09:03<SynrG>srougier: i assume you have some data component shared across the network that causes problems
09:04<srougier>typicaly nfs, but that could be simple file copy
09:04<SynrG>in such a case i just renumber it manually. if there's no available uid that's the same on both (and sometimes gid) i pick a new one for both systems.
09:04<SynrG>of course, remembering to chown any files as well as changing in /etc/passwd and /etc/group
09:05<srougier>renumerbing is not realy a solution when you have an alredy installed application
09:05<SynrG>('find' is your friend)
09:05<SynrG>srougier: really? i've done it successfully.
09:05<srougier>year, I know to "fix" that :-), but I need to avoid it rather than fixing it evry time
09:06<SynrG>Guest21379: then i think maybe RandR 1.2 isn't supported. you're on squeeze?
09:06<SynrG>Guest21379: pastebin your xorg.conf
09:06<SynrG>Guest21379: also pastebin your Xorg.0.log
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09:07<SynrG>hmm, or maybe instead:
09:07<SynrG>Guest21379: pastebin xrandr -v -q
09:07<SynrG>that will show what version of RandR the server reports
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09:08<SynrG>(though the xorg.conf and Xorg.0.log may still be interesting, too)
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09:09<Myon>srougier: ldap, nss-db
09:09<Myon>otherwise, you need to create every user manually everywhere
09:09<SynrG>Guest21379: oops, it's xrandr --verbose -q
09:09<srougier>Myon: no need for ldap
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09:10<srougier>"creating" every user evrywhere is not a problem
09:10<Myon>in the case of nfs(4), there's a ugidd that maps uids
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09:11<Myon>though it's probably less painful to just sync the passwd files
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09:11<srougier>having the same /etc/passwd everywhere is a simple and efficient solution, no need for ldap complex
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09:12<SynrG>Guest21379: hm, not what i was expecting (but consistent with the output i have here from another system)
09:12<srougier>Myon: year, that what I done with other unix, with no problem
09:12<Myon>I have a setup where /etc/passwd,group,shadow,gshadow are distributed by cfengine
09:12<SynrG>Guest21379: then i guess Xorg.0.log and xorg.conf next
09:12<Myon>every time a user gets created somewhere (e.g. on package install), I update the master copies
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09:13<srougier>but it is one with debian: installing the same app on 2 different host lead to different UID, this is the problem I need to sole
09:13<Myon>pre-create the user before installing the packages
09:13<srougier>and so I am here asking for suggestion :-)
09:13<srougier>that would mean I know the username and usage before installing a package :-/
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09:14<Myon>well you do once you installed it on the first host
09:14<Myon>if that's a production system, get yourself a test box :)
09:15<srougier>in that case, that mean my /etc/passwd can from from any host, this is error prone
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09:15<Myon>there's no "debian" way to make systems talk to each other wrt uids
09:15<srougier>That is :-), but having to "test" before installing any package destroy the apt-get beauty :-)
09:15<Myon>usually there's no problem with different uids, unless you are using nfs, in which case you should really have the passwds fully in sync
09:16<Myon>half-synced versions (like just for this new app user) won't work with NFS
09:16<srougier>year, I wan't to have the same passwd everywere
09:16<srougier>but I can't do it because apt-get create user without asking for UID
09:16<Myon>renumbering users isn't fun, but it sounds like you should go through the pain once
09:17<Myon>that's no problem, once the passwds are in sync, you install the app on one host, distribute passwd, and then install on the others
09:17<SynrG>Guest21379: according to xorg.conf man page, Rotate is a Monitor section directive, not a Device section directive.
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09:17<srougier>once, is acceptable, but this is not my problem. Today I just can't apt-get something because it *could* screw my /etc/passwd
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09:18<Myon>how does it screw it?
09:18<srougier>Myon: that would mean that any host could become the "reference" /etc/passwd which is not usable on day to day
09:18<SynrG>Guest21379: your Xorg.0.log is telling you it's ignoring the option in the wrong section:
09:18<SynrG>(WW) intel(0): Option "Rotate" is not used
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09:19<srougier>by adding some user which are not on the central /etc/passwd
09:19<Myon>srougier: sure, but this just means you need to copy any updates to the central passwd asap
09:20<srougier>Myon: year, it would work if I were the sole admin of the server room
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09:20<Myon>adduser supports /usr/local/sbin/adduser.local which you could use to automate things
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09:21<srougier>but people *will* forget to copy...
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09:21<srougier>ha ?
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09:21<SynrG>good luck trying to maintain a network where random people install stuff that is supposed to be installed across the network without regard for your procedures :p
09:21<Myon>do you have some config distribution set up?
09:22<SynrG>beat them harder? :)
09:22<srougier>I don't find this in the man
09:22<Myon> If the file /usr/local/sbin/adduser.local exists, it will be executed after the user account has been set up
09:22<Myon> in order to do any local setup. The arguments passed to adduser.local are:
09:22<srougier>SynrG: that would be illegal :-)
09:23<Myon>(also, is there app data on NFS? usually that's only $HOMEs where this problem doesn't happen?)
09:23<srougier>sorry, I was looking in the ubuntu useradd man
09:23<srougier>there will be app on nfs
09:23<srougier>(and not in /home)
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09:24<Myon>debian packages (should) use adduser to create users, not useradd
09:24<srougier>SynrG: I can't forbid seasoned dev to apt-get on a server when he need a 'smal application'
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09:25<Myon>so adduser.local would work, if you trust this to work
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09:25<SynrG>srougier: then i guess you need better detection of such events to notify you, so you can take care of it
09:25<tdrusk>Is there anything like Yast for Debian?
09:25<Myon>I'd go with the manual update version (which could be scripted)
09:25<SynrG>i guess it's possible to monitor passwd & group updates across the network?
09:25<Myon>tdrusk: apt-get for packages
09:25<srougier>yes it is possible
09:25<Myon>tdrusk: there's no central config thingy, though
09:25<srougier>but I never needed to do that stuf
09:26<SynrG>if you're not going to proactively force people through a process that ensures consistency, all you can do is react
09:26<Myon>srougier: btw how to you keep plain user accounts in sync?
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09:26<srougier>you are right, but they something which I easely can "enforce", and things I can't
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09:27<mosno>tdrusk: debian-installer and debconf, but they're for OS and package installation, respectively
09:27<srougier>Myon: today, this is not, and this need to change ( the uid is a mess on the server farm)
09:27<mosno>tdrusk: not general admin
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09:27<Myon>srougier: for user accounts, I'd recommend ldap, if there's more than a handful
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09:28<Myon>possibly wrapped with libnss-db
09:28<srougier>I disagree, ldap is a truck when all i need is a bycicle :-)
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09:28<srougier>ldap can fail etc...
09:28<Myon>yeah as said, if there's more than a handful
09:29<srougier>when there is a network problem, nothing work etc... I done it before, and don't like the idee to redoo it
09:29<Guest21379>I tried putting it in the monitor section, still getting the same error in the logfile
09:29<Myon>nss-db solves that
09:29<srougier> /etc/passwd never fail :-)
09:29<Myon>(another way is just to pull /var/lib/misc/*.db from the central server)
09:30<srougier>I don't know nss-db
09:30<srougier>what is it ?
09:30<Myon>Description: NSS module for using Berkeley Databases as a naming service
09:30<SynrG>srougier: well, you could get adduser.local to try to merge the new uid into your master copy, then email you if it fails, hm?
09:30<Myon>or just email, and then manually fix things
09:31<srougier>SynrG: that is an idea, I will explore the adduser.local way, for sure
09:31<SynrG>seems your only options are a truck or roller skates. no bicycles
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09:32<srougier>well, roller skates could be used :-)
09:32<srougier>thanks for suggestion, I will look at nss-db and useradd.local
09:33<srougier>and come back here :-) (or not)
09:33<tdrusk>A few months ago I found a suite that managed various server configuration files including DCHP. Any clue what that would have been? I believe it was for gnome and had a few other programs that did similar things.
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09:34<srougier>which one should I use for "debianess" useradd or adduser ?
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09:35<rudi_s>srougier: Read man useradd and man adduser and you'll know ;-)
09:35<SynrG>srougier: useradd is low level. i always use adduser
09:35<SynrG>but you might like useradd if you hate front-ends ;)
09:36<srougier>rudi_s: ouch your rtfm hurt me :-)
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09:36<SynrG>again, no 'debianess' here. just a matter of choosing the right level of abstraction for the job.
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09:37<srougier>I usualy use useradd, for no particular reason, so I can change easely
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09:39<Myon>srougier: the debian policy mandates adduser for use by packages
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09:44<metaspike>adduser "name" - then - adduser "name" "groupname" - adduser "name" "groupname2" - works for me
09:45<srougier>so, I fare as I understand, libnss-db is manly for speeding up passwd lookup, this is not my problem, and so It won't help me
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10:16<nick_fn>Hi. I expected that I should be able to fail and remove a raid1 device from an md raid array, and then mount it directly as some kind of 'poor mans snapshot'. However, mount says "Invalid argument", even when I say -t ext4. This is with wheezy, and I note the superblock version is 1.2 while I'm used to 0.9, so maybe something changed?
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10:34<houms>i am trying to blacklist b43 and ssb so that wl module can load, but ssb keeps loading no matter what i try, unless i manually unloaded it. what am i missing? i created a /etc/modprobe.d/b43.conf and ssb.conf and put blacklist <module> in each but while b43 does not load ssb still loads
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10:37<houms>any one have any ideas? if i log in and modprobe -r ssb and then modprobe wl the wireless network card works
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10:43<abrotman>houms: so blacklist ssb ?
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10:44<houms>yes i have that in ssb.conf
10:44<houms>but upon reboot ssb is still loaded
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10:55<houms>the wiki instructions are not correct and do not work
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10:56<sney>houms: try update-initramfs -u and then reboot again. sometimes the module is loaded during the initrd so it's already loaded by the time it reads /etc/modprobe.d/
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10:58<houms>sney thank you much, rebooting now. brb
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11:31<houms>sney thanks for your help, rebuild initramfs did it
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12:00<Bamboocha>Witam. Czy moglbym uzyskac pomoc na tym kanale?
12:01<dpkg>Na kanale #debian rozmawiamy po angielsku; jesli chcesz lub wolisz mowic po polsku, wejdz na kanal #debian-pl na (Polish speakers please go to #debian-pl on pl is also <perl>.
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12:07<pllanos>I have a problem with me cakephp2 not recognize the html tags in layouts and prints the contents only in the body
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12:08<babilen>pllanos: Do you think that it is due to a bug in the Debian package? I would suggest to ask in #cakephp on as they are more likely to know more about it than #debian
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12:18<opalepatrick>been thinking of going back to squeeze stable. Only reason I changed to 2.6.39 from bpo was because I though the ath9k_htc (ar9170usb) driver was not available in the latest stable version. Am I reading this correctly?
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12:35<Mike>hello evry one
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12:39<mikah>need some help figuring out why k3b won't let me rip cd's to mp3
12:39<mikah>debian squeeze
12:39<blub2>Could I remove the motd for my account on a server I don't have root?
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12:41<Guest21408>hi all, any body know of BFQ patch for linux kernel 3.*
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12:42<Torsten_W>it is not mainline, nor in debian
12:44<mikah>also i'd like to figure out why I can't ssh into my friends box
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12:44<mikah>i keep getting 'connection refused' even though i've port forwarded
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12:44<Torsten_W>mikah, the portforward has to be at your friends site
12:44<Guest21408>mikah: you need to chek if his os is listening on port 22 to ssh
12:45<Guest21408>mikah: if yes, then see the hosts.alow/deny files in etc
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12:48<mikah>yea i've port forwarded
12:48<mikah>also he can ssh to himself
12:48<mikah>as i can myself
12:48<mikah>and the allow/deny files are default >> empty
12:49<Guest21408>mikah: what is the ssh server name?
12:49-!-Guest21408 is now known as liveOs
12:49<mikah>it's an ip address
12:49<liveOs>no i mean what is the package name?
12:50<liveOs>the check firewall/iptables
12:50<mikah>debian has a firewall?
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12:51<mikah>Seriously, this is a pretty default install, we haven't messed with iptables or anything
12:51<liveOs>your friend machine is debian?
12:51<mikah>both machines are debian squeeze
12:51<liveOs>so how are they connected? directly/rooter/proxy?
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12:52<mikah>well it goes like this mypc--router--cable--(internet)--cable--router--hispc
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12:52<mikah>also vnc has been messin up lately too
12:52<mikah>it won't let me login either
12:52<mikah>connection refused
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12:54<liveOs>mikah: so the problem is in his rooter configuration, maby he have a firewall enabled in rooter
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12:54<mikah>we've been through this, I was able to connect to him via vnc like two days ago, then it just stopped working
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12:55<retrospectacus>can he connect to his own vnc
12:55<liveOs>mikah: can he connect to you via ssh
12:55<mikah>dunno, we haven't tried that way
12:55<retrospectacus>maybe his LAN Ip changed
12:55<mikah>ooh lan
12:56*mikah facepalms for not telling him to static
12:56<mikah>so, when he calls back i'll figure that out.
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12:57<liveOs>any idea if there is a linux kernel channel?
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13:02<retrospectacus>liveOs: #linux on
13:03<retro|blah>Or ##kernel on freenode
13:03<liveOs>ok guys thanks
13:03<abrotman>there is also #kernelnewbies here
13:04<abrotman>.list #kernelnewbies
13:04<abrotman>or used to be ...
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13:06<liveOs>abrotman: yeah i am here now lol
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13:07<abrotman>not *here* .. but on OFTC
13:07<abrotman>hrm, it is still there.. okay
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13:09<Caceous>Is it possible to boot debian from a logical partition?
13:09-!-jst83 [] has quit []
13:11<SynrG>Caceous: yes
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13:14<mikah>also anyone know how i can install banshee 2.0.xx in debian squeeze?
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13:14<Caceous>Also, which of the default primary partitions on a windows seven, hp manufactured computer is easiest to get rid of?
13:16<SynrG>i don't understand that question. why should any be more or less easy to get rid of?
13:16<mikah>yea, they're just partitions
13:16<mikah>it's not like hp set some kind of security lock on one of them that makes the pc not ever work again if you remove it
13:16<SynrG>do you want to leave your windows install intact?
13:17<mikah>Chances are, there's only one or two partitions, the system partition and the recovery partition
13:17<Caceous>Yes, I would like to dual-boot. I am worried for the bios if I delete it's partition
13:17<mikah>the recovery partition is barely big enough to run any type of system
13:17<Caceous>All four primary partitions are occupied
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13:18<SynrG>what kind of dumb-ass partitioning scheme is that? :)
13:18<Caceous>The Windows partition, the Recovery Partition, the System partition and the HP_tools partition all came with the computer
13:18<mikah>What I would say is boot to win7, then do a defrag, then use the disk management tool to shrink your win 7 partition, then use the free space to install linux
13:19<mikah>you can do all but the last in windows
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13:19<SynrG>mikah: the point is, if all four are primary, you can't create another partition to put the free space in.
13:19<Caceous>Yes, that is the problem
13:19<mikah>well why does he have a system partition and a windows partition
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13:19<mikah>they should be one and the same
13:19<mikah>same thing with the recovery partition and the hp-tools partition
13:20<Caceous>Beats me, those were created when I got the computer. Removing the System partition supposedly makes widows seven inoperable
13:20<SynrG>some juggling around of partitions with a live bootable gparted rescue image should help sort it out
13:20<mikah>unless you mean the 100 mb or so partition at the beginning of the drive that's 'unrecognized'
13:20<Caceous>yes, that partition
13:20<mikah>this is why I suggested a defrag and the shrinking of the win7 part in win 7
13:21<SynrG>i would hazard a guess that HP_tools could be toasted with no ill effects
13:21<mikah>there's a lot less chance of data loss that way
13:21<SynrG>but i don't know this for a fact. you had better do your own research
13:21<Caceous>But what primary partition should i remove
13:21<abrotman>you can remove that secret win partition .. it just makes some windows functions a royal pain
13:21<SynrG>not a debian problem. :/
13:21<abrotman>you know .. like installing patches ...
13:22<mikah>are you in windows now or some type of live thing
13:22<Caceous>I'm currently in windows
13:22<mikah>call hp and demand that you get the install disks for free
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13:22<mikah>then delete the recovery partition
13:23-!-crackx [] has quit []
13:23<mikah>download the oem win7 disk
13:23<Caceous>Recovery partition is for windows, not hp
13:23<Caceous>That souds better, what is the oem disk?
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13:24<mikah>i'm saying this because it would allow you to blow out that recovery partition without risking not being able to install win 7 later
13:24-!-gulzar [~gulzar@] has joined #debian
13:24<mikah>basically the win 7 oem disk is what HP used to install win 7 on there
13:24<mikah>it's different than the retail disk
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13:25<Caceous>I will get rid of the Recovery Partition, thanks for the help
13:25<mikah>although I would also suggest visiting the drivers page for your specific machine and downloading at least the chipset and network drivers
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13:25<Caceous>I will do that
13:25<mikah>burn them along with that oem disk, that way you have a chance to reinstall in case 7 messes up.. then just blow out the recovery partition, hp tools partition
13:25<mikah>then you can resize your windows 7 partition as well to about half the disk or so
13:25<Caceous>Cool, I get two open slots instead of one
13:26<mikah>then you got half the fuggin disk to play wiht
13:26<gulzar1>I installed kde with {sudo apt-get install kde*} but now i want to remove it with { sudo apt-get remove kde*} but getting this error: {unable to locate package kde3-backup}. How to solve it?
13:26<Caceous>Thanks for the help mikah
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13:26<mikah>but the only way I know of getting ahold of that OEM disk is to illegally download it or pester HP for it
13:26<mikah>well.. i tried to tell him
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13:29<babilen>gulzar1: You should only remove/purge installed packages. Your command should therefore rather be "aptitude purge ~i~n^kde" -- But also see "/msg dpkg remove kde" which is probably what you really want.
13:30<SynrG>gulzar1: yes, wildcard package names resolve to all *possible* packages matching that pattern
13:30<gulzar1>SynrG: that's why I issued that commadn. I amusing LXDE
13:31-!-mode/#debian [+l 508] by debhelper
13:31<gulzar1>babilen: that command seems to work.. Thank You
13:31<gulzar1>babilen: SynrG : any way to install complete gnome (like KDE ) without tomboy?
13:32-!-gulzar [~gulzar@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:32<gulzar1> babilen: SynrG : I am testing all DE to find the one which suites me
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13:33<SynrG>gulzar1: sure. install everything the gnome metapackage depends on or recommends *except* tomboy
13:34<mikah>need help here
13:34<SynrG>i.e. if you want something other than what the 'gnome' metapackage installs, just don't use it.
13:34<babilen>Or just install one of the smaller metapackages that does not depend on tomboy (see "/msg dpkg install gnome" for a short overview of applicable metapackages)
13:34<SynrG>it's tedious, but works
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13:34<gulzar1>SynrG: which command? using simple {sudo apt-get install gnome*} will install everything
13:34<SynrG>gulzar1: once again, you are abusing wildcards
13:35<SynrG>i suggest you don't do that. ever.
13:35<SynrG>apt-cache show gnome
13:35<gulzar1>SynrG: Ok... so then to use metapakages?
13:35<SynrG>gnome is a metapackage. it depends on tomboy, among other things.
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13:36<SynrG>gnome-desktop-environment is a smaller metapackage. gnome depends on it, and it, in turn, on other things ...
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13:36<gulzar1>SynrG: I don't want this mono so no tomboy
13:36-!-mmihaylovich [~michael@] has quit [Quit: Ухожу я от вас (xchat 2.4.5 или старше)]
13:36<babilen>gulzar1: You could install gnome-core, gnome-desktop-environment or even gnome-session ...
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13:37<SynrG>it sounds like you want to install gnome-desktop-environment.
13:37<SynrG>since you said "full gnome". then also add everything that "apt-cache show gnome" shows as either depends or recommends except for tomboy
13:37-!-ompaul [~ompaul@] has joined #debian
13:37<gulzar1>SynrG: yes.. want to test complete packages on DVD except tomboy
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13:37<gulzar1>babilen: ya.. that should work. But I want to install everything on DVD except tomboy.. so any command to do this
13:38<mikah>trying to compile the latest banshee i need help
13:38<mikah>Trying to compile banshee-2.2.1 from source on debian squeeze and I get this:
13:38<mikah>configure: error: Package requirements (gstreamer-0.10 >= 0.10.26
13:38<mikah> gstreamer-base-0.10 >= 0.10.26
13:38<mikah> gstreamer-plugins-base-0.10 >= 0.10.26
13:38-!-mikah was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use or /msg dpkg paste]
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13:38<mikah>No package 'gstreamer-dataprotocol-0.10' found
13:38<mikah>No package 'gstreamer-fft-0.10' found
13:38<mikah>Consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable if you
13:38<mikah>installed software in a non-standard prefix.
13:38<babilen>mikah: Stop it
13:38<mikah>well that was gay, i meant to paste a pastebin url
13:38<gulzar1>SynrG: babilen : As such my main prob is solved.. I will test gnome installing individual packges from synaptic
13:38<babilen>Who was happy?
13:38-!-pogarda [] has quit []
13:39<SynrG>characterizing mistakes as "gay" is likely offensive to gays
13:39<mikah>that's really not my problem
13:39<babilen>gulzar1: Just install a small metapackage as you can always install additional ones later.
13:40*gulzar1 wondering ..... Arch and Ubuntu get more than 1000 users but why Debian and Fedora are around 500?
13:40<gulzar1>babilen: Ok
13:40<babilen>mikah: What are you trying to do?
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13:40<gulzar1>babilen: SynrG : Thank You
13:40<mikah>trying to install the latest banshee because the older one doesn't get cdda info
13:40<babilen>gulzar1: #debian on has ~1150 users right now
13:41<gulzar1>babilen: wait a sec.. then why is this irc different?
13:41<babilen>mikah: Where do you get the newer version? Which Debian release are you using?
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13:41<gulzar1>mikah: banshee.. How can you like something from "HELL GATE"
13:41<babilen>gulzar1: There are two #debian channels. One on and this ("official") on OFTC
13:41<gulzar1>babilen: Ok.. :)
13:42<babilen>gulzar1: Backporting banshee from sid is quite some work as you need to backport a rather large number of (build-)dependencies as well.
13:42<babilen>,checkbackport banshee
13:42<judd>Backporting package banshee in sid→squeeze/i386: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: libdbus1.0-cil-dev (>= 0.7), libdbus-glib1.0-cil-dev (>= 0.5), libgkeyfile-cil-dev (>= 0.1), libgio2.0-cil-dev (>= 2.22.3-1~), libgtk-sharp-beans2.0-cil-dev (>= 2.8), libgpod-cil-dev (>= 0.8.2), libgdata-cil-dev (>= 1.7).
13:42<babilen>ENICK -- mikah ^^^
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13:44<gulzar1>babilen: ys.. then why he is interested in BANSHEE.. give him clementine
13:45<mikah>babilen, what's all that mean
13:45<SynrG>mikah: a rough estimate of the size of the problem
13:45<SynrG>i.e. "too big for you" (probably)
13:46<gulzar1>mikah: they are the dependencies... Try "clementine"
13:46<mikah>ok then can we make k3b do mp3?
13:46-!-wissem [~localhost@] has joined #debian
13:47<mikah>cause i can't seem to locate any type of mp3 support for k3b in squeeze
13:47-!-zigo [~quassel@] has joined #debian
13:47<mikah>even though libk3b-extracodecs says it supports mp3 ...
13:47<mikah>sadly it's wrong
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13:49<SynrG>it's not wrong. libk3b-extracodecs depends on alternatives
13:50-!-hq [] has joined #debian
13:50<SynrG>i.e. with the correct alternatives, you should be ok
13:52<mikah>does clementine rip tracks?4
13:52<mikah>cause i can't seem to see any interface to do so
13:52<hq>Slon bezdech
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13:54<retrospectacus>clementine is a decent music player, though I prefer exaile. "ripping" is a different task, different app - I use grip
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13:57<mikah>well i need a cd ripper that downloads the track information
13:57<mikah>and a music player that manages music nice
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13:57<mikah>and I would prefer them both to be the same app, but that's not required
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13:58<retrospectacus>well grip is great for the first one, and yes it does CCDB
13:59<retrospectacus>and there are lots of music players..
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14:01<juan>whats up
14:01<juan>what are you doing folks
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14:02<mikah>apparently grip doesn't do mp3 lame?
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14:03<retrospectacus>mikah: I only rip to FLAC but no, it *does* mp3lame if you have it installed
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14:03<mikah>well that's not what the rip tab says
14:04<retrospectacus>rip tab is CD to WAV
14:04<retrospectacus>encode tab is WAV to XYZ
14:04<retrospectacus>mp3 is possible
14:04<mikah>so you rip then encode?
14:04<mikah>well then
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14:05<mikah>and the cddb is automatically applied to the traxx?
14:05*MrFrood likes abcde for ripping/encoding
14:05<retrospectacus>mikah: yes
14:05<retrospectacus>if you have that box checked
14:06<mikah>what box
14:06<retrospectacus>perform disc lookups automatically
14:06<mikah>duh nvm now i get an error
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14:09<mikah>ok so i have gstreamer0.10-lame installed shouldn't it be allowing me to rip to mp3?
14:09<mikah>or is there another thing i need to rip to mp3
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14:10<retrospectacus>probably libmp3lame0
14:10<retrospectacus>from <dmm>
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14:11<mikah>doesn't debian have a single metapackage akin to ubuntu-restricted-extras that allows all the restricted formats to be installed?
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14:11<mikah>cause this is really making me want to go back to either ubuntu or windows
14:11<retrospectacus>no idea, I only use debian
14:12<mikah>libmp3lame0 is already the newest version.
14:12<mikah>but apparently grip doesn't know how to deal with it
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14:12<mikah>yea i keep getting 'invalid encoder exectuable'
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14:21<mikah>ok so grip needs the full path to the encoder so i type in /usr/bin/lame
14:21<mikah>it still bitches about full paths
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14:28<jhutchins_wk>!tell mikah about dmm
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14:31<lcars47>hello everyone
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14:32<lcars47>how's it going today?
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14:34<lcars47>i need help to get my sound card working.
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14:35<sney>lcars47: what sound card
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14:35<lcars47>ty, intel ICH6.
14:36<lcars47>multi media audio controller [0401] intel ICH6
14:37<sney>intel hda normally just works. have you made sure the channels are unmuted?
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14:37<lcars47>haven't been able to access the card.
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14:38<lcars47>how do I make sure the channels are unmuted?
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14:39<sney>lcars47: make sure alsa-utils is installed and run alsamixer, or use whatever volume control applet comes with your chosen desktop environment
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14:40<lcars47>ok, brb
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14:41<scisteffan>hey, I'm trying to open a file that has 777 permissions in PHP with fopen and I'm getting a permission denied error - any ideas why?
14:41-!-mig [~mig@] has joined #debian
14:41<scisteffan>Warning: fopen(/home/steffan/clam/Cores/Bore17/Bore17_smooth_spline_ages.txt): failed to open stream: Permission denied in /var/www/dissertation.php on line 56 Error: Could not retrieve ages file.
14:42<scisteffan>-rwxrwxrwx 1 steffan steffan 7853 Dec 12 13:02 Bore17_smooth_spline_ages.txt
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14:43<scisteffan>^ All the directories needed write permission too, solved
14:43<scisteffan>** read permission
14:45<dpkg>mig: È possibile di scaricare un sacco di software libero puntando il tuo browser a !
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14:49<lcars47>thanks 4 the help
14:50<lcars47>will be back later, bye
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15:16<ismaro>ahy alguien
15:17<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
15:17<ismaro>·debian-es con/ join ·debian-es
15:18<ompaul> /join #debian-es
15:19<ismaro><ompaul> /join #debian-es
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15:19<ismaro>ablar en español
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15:21-!-etech [] has joined #debian
15:21<ompaul>ismaro: Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. So if you want to stay please speak English. >>>>>>/join #debian-es
15:21<heikkila>no abla espanol
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15:21<ismaro>por k
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15:21<daemonkeeper>ompaulo este hablar espanol.
15:21<ompaul>you think?
15:22<ompaul>not a hope
15:22<daemonkeeper>y thinko
15:22<ompaul>because I don't live in the US or most of Iberia
15:22<ismaro>plis spiking spanish
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15:23<babilen> /join #debian-es
15:23<ompaul>ismaro: join the Spanish Channel /join #debian-es
15:23<ismaro>#debian-es español
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15:24<ismaro>#debian-es es asin para español
15:24<ismaro>#debian-es siempre ahy k ponerlo asin
15:24<ompaul>heikkila: don't
15:24-!-ismaro [] has left #debian [Saliendo]
15:24<heikkila>just type /join #debian-es
15:25<heikkila>then you can speak espanol in the new window
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15:46<hate29>I'm about to install squeeze to a new computer and wonder should I install 32-bit or 64-bit? It has 4 Gb ram so 64 bit is better. But with pae it isn't necessary?
15:49<daemonkeeper>PAE causes performance penalties
15:49<babilen>you still get another instruction set, more registers and don't ^^^^
15:49<daemonkeeper>And does not allow more than 4G _per process_
15:49<hate29>Okay, then it's better to go with 64-bit
15:50<hate29>Hope I get my usbdrive installing process to work =)
15:50<heikkila>I think PAE is only necessary if you have MORE than 4 GB of memory?
15:50<babilen>!tell hate29 -about usb install
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15:52<daemonkeeper>heikkila: Not even then. Only if you want to _use_ more than 4G of memory on a x86 system
15:54<OpenTokix>hate29: no reason not to run 64bit today
15:55<jhutchins_wk>OpenTokix: Some of the multimedia is still a bit rough.
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15:56<OpenTokix>jhutchins_wk: like?
15:56<babilen>jhutchins_wk: Like what?
15:56<jhutchins_wk>OpenTokix: Some things still aren't available. Most of what's available has NO optimization for 64b and actually run slower because of overhead.
15:56<OpenTokix>jhutchins_wk: like?
15:56<chealer>hate29: it's no necessary with PAE, indeed
15:56<jhutchins_wk>Adobe Flash is reported to be a bit rough.
15:56<vaha>Is there any way that I can make my own custom iso image where I can change the installation menu where it asks for the kernel selection to select a new one or to be able to put a newer version on there
15:56<jhutchins_wk>OpenTokix: Like 90% of packages that were simply recompiled with 64b libs.
15:57<OpenTokix>jhutchins_wk: Well, Adobe Flash is a pile of shit on any platform, but the 64bit-version works as bad as anything else.
15:57<babilen>jhutchins_wk: Apart from it being flash I have no problems whatsoever.
15:57<jhutchins_wk>babilen: Yeah, seems pretty smooth now, but it's a moving target and they dropped it for a while.
15:57<OpenTokix>I have been running 64bit desktop for a couple of years, flawless
15:58<babilen>jhutchins_wk: Not every software needs architecture specific hand-written assembler and works just by compiling the code for the target platform. ;)
15:58<heikkila>daemonkeeper, yes, that's a good clarification :)
15:58<jhutchins_wk>OpenTokix: In that case you wouldn't know anything about the problems, would you?
15:58<hate29>Well I hope that flash works, 'cause that pc is coming to my kids and they watch a lot of youtube..
15:58<jhutchins_wk>babilen: Which also means it has no advantage running under 64b.
15:58<ZekeS>64bit flash works fine here
15:58<OpenTokix>jhutchins_wk: I have heard those arguments you said, but I havent noticed them - and noone else of my collegues
15:59<jhutchins_wk>OpenTokix: Like I said, that just means you don't know anything about the problems.
15:59<blarson>some non-pae keneles have been dropped, the performance difference was found to be tiny.
15:59<OpenTokix>jhutchins_wk: Give some specific problems then and not just "in general blah" "multimedia"
15:59-!-movl [~movl@] has quit [Quit: *]
15:59*jhutchins_wk does not like the argument "because I've never seen a bedbug they don't exist".
16:00<babilen>jhutchins_wk: That is not true, the compiler uses different instruction sets (if compiled with a different -march, ...) but it doesn't make sense to continue this discussion here.
16:00<jhutchins_wk>OpenTokix: I'm just sharing what I know, I'm not arguing whether there are bugs in 64b.
16:00<jhutchins_wk>babilen: Agreed to the latter.
16:00<OpenTokix>hate29: yes, it works - just make sure you get the 64bit version from adobe labs - for best support + performance.
16:01-!-mode/#debian [+l 501] by debhelper
16:02<babilen>hate29: Just install flashplugin-nonfree from contrib -- We can help you with that after your installation though
16:02<OpenTokix>hate29: that works to
16:03<hate29>babilen: Ok, thanks. I'm using minitube in my own pc but I'm not sure could I install it in an 64-bit system
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16:05<OpenTokix>hate29: there is also 32bit libs you can install if you want to run 32bit apps like skype or such.
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16:05<babilen>,versions minitube --arch amd64
16:05<judd>Package: minitube on amd64 -- sid: 1.6-1; wheezy: 1.6-1
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16:06<babilen>hate29: ^^^
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16:06<hate29>Nice. I'm quite sure I need something "old"
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16:08<hate29>Hey, it seems that my installer is not working. I formatted my usbdrive and downloaded 64-bit netinst-cd and dd'd it with dd if=debian-*-netinst.iso of=/dev/sdX
16:10<jhutchins_wk>hate29: For some reason cat is preferred over dd for that.
16:10<jhutchins_wk>hate29: Did you checksum the iso?
16:11<hate29>jhutchins_wk: yes, iso is fine. Can you tell me exact command for cat? Not really used it before
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16:13<sney>hate29: did you make sure to sync before removing the usb device?
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16:14<johnny> hiu
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16:15<hate29>sney: I did remove it safely
16:16<sney>did you run sync after using the dd command?
16:16<sney>if you didn't, try that
16:17<hate29>sney: Nope. How to do it?
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16:41<qxt>where are the hash sums for the images here
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16:44<dondelelcaro>qxt: in the same directory as the images are.
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16:45<qxt>dondelelcaro yeah I would think so but I just the iso when I clicked on the link?!
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16:46<dondelelcaro>qxt: edit the link...
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16:48<qxt>donald found it. Had to manually change the url to
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16:50<veon>I'm attempting to install debian to an old pc. Install hangs at first option screen. Celeron 660mhz 128 RAM. Any suggestions?
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16:53<SynrG>should install ok. check the console for errors? alt-F4
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16:54<SynrG>is it possible to get there before it hangs?
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16:55<SynrG>have you verified the hardware is OK? boot to memtest86 for example
16:55<veon>Ok I'll try that. I didn't realize I could get to a console before it installed.
16:55<SynrG>not sure if you can
16:55<SynrG>depends on what you mean by the "first option screen"
16:55<veon>It boots other linux live cds ok.
16:55<SynrG>you're booting a live cd?
16:56<SynrG>or the standard installer?
16:56<veon>the screen where it has the options to "Install" "Graphical install" etc
16:56<veon>I'm trying debian-6.0.1a-i386-netinst
16:56<SynrG>ah. the bootloader
16:56<SynrG>it has not yet booted into the installer at that point. so alt-f4 won't help
16:57-!-administrador [~administr@] has joined #debian
16:57<SynrG>btw, why so old?
16:57-!-administrador [~administr@] has quit []
16:57<SynrG>you know 6.0.3 is current?
16:57<veon>Ok. Just for fun really. Thought I could try making a file server to learn with
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16:58<SynrG>well, you should at least try 6.0.3 first before trying to make an older release work
16:58<SynrG>the netinst is not a long download
16:58<SynrG>(unless your network is two cans and a string ...)
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17:00<veon>Ok I'll get downloading. Thanks
17:01-!-mode/#debian [+l 495] by debhelper
17:02<shiloh>babilen, i am taking your advice and just returning to mint
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17:29<juanchi>hi, I was wondering if there is a RT (realtime) kernel already compiled for Debian Squeeze?
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17:34<ady>smbdy here ?
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17:36<ady>my first time here.. doesn't know what is all about
17:36<ady>looking around..
17:36<heikkila>Ok, this is a Debian support channel, so if you have any problems with Debian you just ask about it
17:37<ady>well, i have a small problem with Ubuntu 11.10
17:37<ady>does it qualify for this chan ?
17:37<dpkg>This is not the Ubuntu help channel. Please do /server and then /join #ubuntu. If you are using XChat, you can right-click the following link and choose connect. irc://
17:37<ady>can you point me where to ask ?
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17:38<ady>i hope i new how to exit from here.. cya for now :)
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17:39<heikkila>/part #debian might do the trick
17:39<mikah>allright this is really annoying
17:40<mikah>i click a link and it downloads that link to /var/ then opens in firefox
17:40<mikah>i want this to end
17:40<mikah>example of finished link: file:///var/tmp/kdecache-mikah/krun/27193.0.c3a773u
17:40<heikkila>mikah, how does what download to /var?
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17:41<mikah>i click a link in an application that's not an internet browser (like for instance, xchat). that link is then downloaded to /var/ and opened in firefox
17:42<mikah>i'm running debian squeeze with kde desktop
17:43<sney>kde should have a 'url handler' setting or so in the system settings application
17:43<sney>#debian-kde would know more
17:45<mikah>it had to do with firefox being chosen from the menu system (in default applications) instead of using the /opt/firefox/firefox path
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19:23<lcars47>hello everyone
19:23<lcars47>the star of the show is back!
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19:25<lcars47>still can't get my sound card working though :(
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19:26<lcars47>tried alsa mixer
19:27<lcars47>no results though.
19:28<lcars47>sure is quiet in here
19:30*lcars47 listens to a pin drop with the loudest echo
19:30<devil>you're having a monologue, we listen
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19:31<lcars47>:) lol
19:31<lcars47>am still trying to figure out how to access my sound card.
19:32-!-markus_vlc [] has joined #debian
19:32<lcars47>getting no where very quickly
19:32<nevyn>Woe is me; sound does not work well; linux sucks
19:33<lcars47>usually linux is great
19:33<lcars47>sure beats winshit
19:34<lcars47>debian has NO spyware.
19:35<streuner>nevyn: using ALSA, did you try OSS4 yet?
19:35<nevyn>I hear the silence; expecting cacophony; digital streams dammed
19:35<theocrite>Yes there are. It's called popcon.
19:35<nevyn>streuner: I don't really have a problem I'm just messing with haiku
19:35<streuner>oh, ok :-)
19:35<lcars47>no, am using etch
19:36<MrFrood>theocrite: popcon is opt-in
19:36<nevyn>streuner: in that I do have a problem but it's a problem shared and someone with way more knowledge than me is working on it already.
19:37<theocrite>MrFrood: yeah I know. And I love that tool. I was just trolling a bit. Nothing meant to be mean.
19:37<nevyn>in that the latest version of daniel mack's implicit feedback rearchitect of snd-usb cause jack to crash
19:37<lcars47>the best place to troll is
19:38<nevyn>I quite like that...
19:38<lcars47>lol :)
19:38<nevyn>I hear the silence; expecting cacophony; digital streams dammed
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19:39<lcars47>so, any advise?
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19:41<meden>hello, I'd need to install libkrb53 (oldlibs) in Debian Sid, but it seems impossible (not even listed in aptitude, but it is on packages.debian.ord/sid). Any hint?
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19:42<streuner>judd, versions libkrb53
19:42<judd>Package: libkrb53 on i386 -- lenny: 1.6.dfsg.4~beta1-5lenny6; lenny-security: 1.6.dfsg.4~beta1-5lenny6; squeeze: 1.8.3+dfsg-4squeeze2; sid: 1.9.1+dfsg-3
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19:43<streuner>meden: try
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19:44<meden>streuner: already did it. Manually downloaded, but libkrb5support0 conflicts with it, although it is a transitional package...
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19:44<meden>(and still I cannot figure why it is not listed in aptitude...)
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19:45<lcars47>multi media audio controller [0401] intel (ICH6 family)
19:45<streuner>meden: what does BTS say about?
19:45<meden>streuner: nothing. I was about to file a bug, but I thought better ask here before make noise on BTS
19:45<meden>it is oldlibs, after all...
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19:46<lcars47>any suggestions?
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19:47<babilen>meden: I guess you are looking for libkrb5-3
19:48<metaspike>lcars47, what's the problem? I just got here. :p
19:49<lcars47>I have tried alsa mixer and still cant get my sound card working.
19:49<meden>babilen: libkrb5-3 is the "new" split version, but a libkrb53 (transitional package) still extists, according to I'm trying to install zend-server-ce, which depends on it
19:49<metaspike>my dvb terrestial came in the post today, it is a RTL2832U - apparently it is workable, but I dunno it's not showing up in /dev/dvb/ - i guess the module isn't there. eh
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19:50<babilen>meden: Install a non-broken zend-server package or run a supported release
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19:50<streuner>lcars47: intel package supports multiple chipsets, sometimes it just sucks, did you ever try OSS4?
19:51<lcars47>no, how can I do that?
19:52<streuner>lcars47: just install oss4-dkms
19:52<streuner>lcars47: make sure, you have linux-headers for your kernel installed before
19:53<meden>babilen: ok, got it. Do you have any guess why libkrb53 is listed on but not in aptitude?
19:53<streuner>lcars47: (if you on squeeze, if not, you have to compile it manually, IIRC)
19:54<lcars47>am using etch
19:54<gnufan>lcars47: why are you using etch?
19:54<lcars47>it's easy to install.
19:56<lcars47>and more complete than sarge.
19:56<gnufan>lcars47: it is also easy to upgrade. Is it the financial cost of upgrading keeping you back?
19:56<lcars47>no, just that lenny and squeeze are super difficult to install.
19:57<metaspike>G-Tek Electronics Group Lifeview LV5TDLX DVB-T [RTL2832U] .... if anyone knows anything solid about howto this device. help appreciated ^_^
19:57<babilen>meden: pdo is outdated?
19:57<streuner>find a driver? metaspike?
19:58<streuner>dpkg, listvals rtl2832
19:58-!-S_WO [] has joined #debian
19:58<dpkg>Factoid search of 'rtl2832' by value returned no results.
19:58<babilen>meden: You could try to download zend-server's source package and adjust the dependencies in debian/control -- I can't tell you if that works without other adaptations though and we can't support that package anyway
19:58<metaspike>yeah,,, it's elusive, i think it's "been and gone" so to speak
19:59<streuner>metaspike: its always a driver issue in Linux, you are always able to sell and buy a chipset which is supported
19:59<lcars47>etch is still the best
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20:01<metaspike>yeah I know, I would drop this like a sack of bricks but frankly Ive read to much about people who have had this device working in the past to simply drop simply for a lack of support
20:01<meden>babilen: sorry, but what is pdo? If you mean my package list, yes it is updated. Maybe I will try to rebuild zend adjusting debian/control, if I can get some time...
20:01-!-LilleCarl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:01<babilen>meden: pdo == :)
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20:02<meden>babilen: :), yeah, of course... :D
20:02<lcars47>I didn't force anyone the screwup and call it an improvement
20:03<meden>babilen: ok, I think there is no immediate solution for my problem. Thank you for your help, anyway
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20:05<streuner>metaspike: DVB-T are issues about
20:06<babilen>meden: Looks like it, good luck with zend support!
20:06<streuner>metaspike: - in most case they are issues about kernels and the support of it, IME
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20:07<streuner>metaspike: if the chipset is supported, but after all, some drivers arent up-to-date and that makes headaches
20:07<streuner>metaspike: just use
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20:08<metaspike>indeed it looks like someone has got inworking recently - no headache.. fun fun fun v_v
20:09<streuner>sure, but always look what kind of kernel s(he) uses...
20:09<streuner>it could work, but a kernel upgrade gives you in most cases, serious headaches, IME
20:11<metaspike>yeah. im just sniffing around the deb kernel source to see if it's there.
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20:15<lcars47>so, how can I connect artsd to my sound card?
20:16<streuner>lcars47: you have no plan about sound in Linux at all?
20:16<lcars47>no, not at all.
20:16<streuner>lcars47: arts is the sounddaemon of KDE, you cannot use ALSA/OSS4 *and* ARTS
20:16-!-linuxguy [] has joined #debian
20:17<lcars47>I just want my sound to work
20:17*lcars47 smacks my self 4 being stoopid!
20:17<streuner>no need to
20:17<streuner>try the OSS4 stuff and disable ARTS
20:18<streuner>maybe it works
20:18-!-accountuser [] has joined #debian
20:20<streuner>besides, you have to disable the sounddaemons always (ESD in GNOME or ARTS in KDE)
20:20<streuner>in order to use a function ALSA or OSS4
20:21<lcars47>how do i do that?
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20:21<streuner>gnome-control-center in GNOME, i dunno about KDE
20:22<streuner>there is just a switch in GNOME Control Center (Sound)
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20:24<metaspike>i think i got it workin :)
20:24<metaspike>now what. LoL
20:24-!-andres is now known as zz_andres
20:24<streuner>dpkg, congratulate metaspike
20:24<dpkg>Huzzah metaspike, you did it!
20:24<streuner>metaspike: well, you scan for stations
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20:25<streuner>metaspike: kaffeine is easy to use
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20:26<streuner>metaspike: if you want using xine, you need a special scan app. which is not in Debian
20:26<metaspike>fyi - was key, hardly ideal. I think the driver was excluded for bad licencing, claiming GPL fasely or some such. I hope they work this out :)
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20:28<streuner>metaspike: IRC messages are for history, but they dont exist very long...
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20:31<private>Debian is cool.
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20:31<streuner>private: tell us news
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20:32<private>Old hardware is not supported by new debian versions.
20:33-!-ExponentY is now known as totalNoob
20:33<streuner>hardware support is always a Linux thingie
20:33<totalNoob>Hey guys. What's up?
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20:33<blarson>private: yes, 386 is no longer supported, or 32-bit sparc
20:33<streuner>but, in most cases, old hardware is good supported in Linux, IMO
20:33<streuner>yeah, stone-aged
20:33<babilen>private: It very very rarely happens that hardware support is dropped (if at all)
20:34<sney>yeah, as long as it's fairly common and not exclusively supported by proprietary vendor software
20:34<private>My Geforce 4 MX (Integrated) only supported by <= Debian 6 stable, not in testing, unstable
20:34-!-Blacker47 [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
20:34<babilen>That doesn't mean that a box bought in the 80s can run a modern full blown desktop environment, but still ...
20:34<symptom>hello I noticed that squeeze by default uses pulse audio to manage audio even though alsa is installed. Is there a way to force it to use alsa? Or do I need to completely remove pulse?
20:35<metaspike>that's the easiest solution
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20:35<babilen>symptom: If you don't want to use PA you have to disable or remove it. It sits on top of ALSA
20:35<babilen>symptom: Do you have problems with PA?
20:35<symptom>babilen, simply removing it and restarting X will give me alsa?
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20:36<symptom>PA doesnt give me the same options through gnome-mixer as alsa does
20:36<babilen>symptom: Most likely yes. You can use pavuctl and pavucontrol to fiddle with PA
20:37<totalNoob>I've got a situation. I'm trying to install Debian. Not my first time using Linux though, used to use slackware. So, the most convenient way would be to install from a usb. How would one go about that?
20:37<sney>totalNoob: download the netinstall iso, and write it directly to a flash device
20:37<totalNoob>I looked on the site, but it cites 'squeeze', which I'm assuming is a internet-based install.
20:38<sney>using cat, dd, or the win32 image writer depending on your current OSand preference
20:38-!-hele_ [] has joined #debian
20:38<sney>squeeze is the codename of the current stable debian release
20:38<babilen>!tell totalNoob -about usb install
20:38<totalNoob>The thing is, will my laptop still be able to steal neighbor's internet while installing?
20:38<private>Apropos alsa, sometimes i can't play sounds with more than one program. For example while flash is playing video and sound, vlc doesn't make a noise. Sure it's not a debian thing, but i couldn't solve the problem for weeks...hmm...
20:38<babilen>totalNoob: Is it encrypted?
20:38<totalNoob>The usb?
20:38<symptom>babilen, also I have an hdmi port on my machine. lsmod shows snd_hda_codec_atihdmi (which is alsa) but the audio controls for it arent shown in the gnome-vol-control
20:38<sney>if your neighbor's internet is unsecured and your wifi card is supported by the installer, it'll still work
20:38<totalNoob>Or you mean the internet. It is not unsecured.
20:39<totalNoob>Double negative. It is secured.
20:39<babilen>private: You want something like in /etc/asound.conf for PA (and flash)
20:39<totalNoob>I know the creds though...
20:39<sney>the installer only supports open or wep-encrypted wifi
20:39<sney>wpa is unsupported for some reason
20:39<babilen>totalNoob: WPA? WEP? Double-Ceasar cipher on pidgins? What is your wireless adaptor?
20:39<totalNoob>Ugh. I'm not even sure what it is. It 'says' unsecured. But...
20:40<totalNoob>When I try to connect, it disables me until I go into a web-browser based prompt and input a cred.
20:40<totalNoob>So I'm assuming I get added to a whitelist...
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20:40<sney>oh, some kind of gateway
20:40<totalNoob>And my adaptor...
20:40<symptom>sney, I think they changed that in wheezy... wpa supported
20:40<sney>you'd probably be better off writing CD1 to your flash device and installing offline
20:41<babilen>totalNoob: That won't really work during the installation. Do you *need* network-manager to configure your wireless or can you work with wpasupplicant?
20:41<symptom>well I KNOW they changed it, but I think wheezy was the first release where it was avail
20:41<totalNoob>I can install it all to the usb.
20:41<babilen>sney: cd1 does *not* include network-manager though last time I checked
20:41<totalNoob>Or dl, rather.
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20:41<meden>babilen: I found a solution, now I have libkrb53 and zend-server on sid, I hope it can be useful to share it: I just used to install a previous version of krb5 libs and everything works, now (at least, so it seems...). Thank you again for your support
20:41<babilen>totalNoob: So, what is your adaptor?
20:41<totalNoob>babilen: Intel Centrino Advanced N 1250.
20:41<sney>babilen: sounds like it's just a gateway proxyish system though, not wpa
20:41<babilen>meden: That is not really a good solution though
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20:42<babilen>totalNoob: You need firmware for that (firmware-iwlwifi)
20:42<symptom>babilen, dangers of uninstalling pulse? Alsa should just take over after restart?
20:42<babilen>!tell totalNoob -about installer firmware
20:42<totalNoob>So, I should somehow add the firmware, dl the squeeze, then boot?
20:43<babilen>symptom: I don't quite understand why you want to remove PA, but ALSA should take over once PA is removed. The config file I pasted is for PA though
20:43<totalNoob>Or do I need to configure something to work with the gateway? Ugh. This seems like it would be much simpler if I P2p'd a full iso.
20:43<totalNoob>babilen: Is that possible?
20:43<sney>totalNoob: download the full iso then.
20:44<sney>CD1 supports being written directly to usb flash devices as an image.
20:44<private>Thanks babilen. Do i have to create the file, because it's not there.
20:44<babilen>totalNoob: I would recommend to download DVD1 and install from that -- you can copy the firmware to the second partition on the USB stick and install it during the installation. Or just do it after the initial installation with "dpkg -i the_firmware.deb"
20:44<totalNoob>In the directory, there's about 14 different iso files.
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20:44<meden>babilen: yes, just a workaround that lets me do some experiment. zend packages, anyway, already provide a libkrb53 dummy package (but too old, it generates conflicts), so it should work with the new one
20:44<babilen>private: Yes, you would have to create that file. That solves the flash plugin sound behaviour. (Note again: PA specific)
20:44<private>Oh, what's PA?
20:45<totalNoob>So, partition it into two partitions... one for the DVD, one for the firmware.
20:45<totalNoob>Then boot.
20:45<metaspike>totalNoob, or use the CD that has the firmware included...
20:45<babilen>meden: ack, I could have mentioned that, sorry if I caused you work by omitting that piece of information.
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20:45<totalNoob>metaspike: That would be awesome. Could you link me?
20:45<babilen>metaspike: only netinst and no internet-stealing from neighbours
20:46<babilen>private: PA == pulseaudio
20:47<totalNoob>So, I only need DVD1, for Debian 6.0.3, then put the firmware on eet?
20:47<meden>babilen: :) now I can go to sleep (it's ~3AM here...). Happy new year to everybody!
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20:48<babilen>totalNoob: I would just install it from there. Then copy the firmware .deb ( to a removable medium and install it manually (dpkg -i firmware-iwlwifi*.deb) from there afterwards.
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20:49<metaspike>that would be cleaner.
20:49<babilen>meden: You live in a very strange timezone (2:48 here) -- greetings to west hungary ;)
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20:51<totalNoob>So, from what I understand... I can put the CD1, squeeze, and it will automatically detect the firmware?
20:51<totalNoob>Because I already installed the squeeze, and the torrent for full is 4GB...
20:52<babilen>You already installed?
20:53<totalNoob>I alrdy downloaded, I meant.
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21:05<totalNoob>Oops. Out.
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21:44<siducer>hello anyone?
21:44<siducer>just download RC on xfce
21:45<siducer>dd on usb stick, wow, works
21:46<siducer>thanks for the RC release
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21:48<siducer>trying to browse network,, cannot find the network icon in thurnar... anyone know how to ?
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21:49<lcars47>look for the package in the directory.
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21:50<lcars47>anyone know how to make /dev/dsp?
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22:31<priv1>Does Ubuntu weaken Debian?
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22:51<priv1>Many Ubuntu packages don't work on Debian
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22:54<sney>priv1: they aren't meant to. it's a different operating system.
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22:55<mhall119>priv1: people packaging new apps for Ubuntu are encouraged to send them to debian instead
22:55<mhall119>it's only things that are Ubuntu-only that aren't
22:55<priv1>Sure, but ... yes mhall119, that's what i wanted to say
22:57<mhall119>I know I have a set of packages in Ubuntu's repos that I've been told to try and get into Debian instead
22:57<priv1>Is it hard to "convert"?
22:58<mhall119>in my case, I cheated and re-used settings from the xubuntu-desktop package, rather than making a clean set of settings for my own
22:58<priv1>I have seen many programs that "switched" from Debian to Ubuntu..., that makes me sad
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22:58<mhall119>but if you're doing things right, it shouldn't be difficult
22:58<mhall119>priv1: why did they do that?
23:00<priv1>Don't know, i think because Ubuntu is more popular. Sure you often could compile it, but i find it cool, if there are packages for both distris
23:00<mhall119>anything in Debian unstable should be pulled into Ubuntu's repositories, so it would have already been there
23:01<mhall119>the only thing I can think of is that they upgraded their program to depend on something that was only available in Ubuntu
23:01<lcars47>how do i reinstall my kernel modules?
23:01<abrotman>lcars47: reinstall the kenrel package
23:01<lcars47>great ty.
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23:26<monsta|2truck>umm how do i change composite manager to compiz
23:27<monsta|2truck>from gnome
23:27<robbiethe1st>Uh, install it
23:28<robbiethe1st>running compiz --replace will replace
23:28<robbiethe1st>your current window manager as the currently running manager
23:28<monsta|2truck>what if that fails
23:28<monsta|2truck>ive had that mess up before
23:29<robbiethe1st>Then you need to mess with your config and or graphics drivers
23:29<robbiethe1st>Make sure glxgears works, first off
23:29<robbiethe1st>It's in the mesa-utils package
23:29<monsta|2truck>Xlib: extension "GLX" missing on display ":0.0".
23:29<monsta|2truck>Error: couldn't get an RGB, Double-buffered visual
23:29<monsta|2truck>thats what im geting now
23:30<robbiethe1st>Then your graphics drivers need fixing one way or another. Perhaps you need to install something
23:30<robbiethe1st>Nvidia or ATI?
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23:30<monsta|2truck>i tried installing following debian page
23:30<monsta|2truck>for nvidia drivers
23:30<monsta|2truck>i have gtx560
23:31<robbiethe1st>edit your /etc/X11/xorg.conf file
23:31<monsta|2truck>i did
23:31<robbiethe1st>Make sure there's a driver nvidia-like line in there
23:31<monsta|2truck>but it gave me a blinking curson
23:31<monsta|2truck>so i had to erase the x11.conf
23:32-!-chitchat [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:32<robbiethe1st>Check your xorg log - /var/log/Xorg.0.log
23:32<robbiethe1st>when it gives you the blinking cursor
23:32<robbiethe1st>type the errors you find into google
23:32<robbiethe1st>or ask with them
23:32<robbiethe1st>I'm off, though, sorry.
23:32<robbiethe1st>But that should get you aimed in the right direction
23:32<monsta|2truck>can this be done thio
23:33<robbiethe1st>Once you get glxgears running, then you have a chance with compiz
23:33<monsta|2truck>can i have gtx560 fully working
23:33<monsta|2truck>under debian
23:33<monsta|2truck>cause it doesnt even fully work under buntu
23:33<robbiethe1st>well, then...
23:33<monsta|2truck>it works but it keeps saying driver not in use
23:33<robbiethe1st>It all depends on Nvidia's drivers
23:33<monsta|2truck>ubuntu clains thats their bug
23:34<robbiethe1st>You should be able to get at least basic 3d stuff working
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23:34<robbiethe1st>Perhaps not good enough for great gaming, but...
23:34<monsta|2truck>im developing a game
23:34<robbiethe1st>Personally, I have a GTX 260 which works /excellently/
23:34<monsta|2truck>in opengl
23:34<monsta|2truck>ok thats all i need
23:34<phorce1>I have a 520 working well at home
23:35<monsta|2truck>well how did u do it
23:35<robbiethe1st>Perfect. Cya both
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23:35<monsta|2truck>gime ur steps
23:35<monsta|2truck>i want my rotating cube NOW!
23:35<monsta|2truck>rite now
23:35<phorce1>I installed "The nvidia way" rather than "The Debian way" I think (from the debian wiki).
23:36<monsta|2truck>i think i have taht wiki
23:36<phorce1>I'm about to have to do it here. Upgrading my office machine to squeeze and I just stuck a 520 in it a few weeks ago
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23:37<monsta|2truck>im thinking debian is beter than mint debian
23:37-!-prem [~prem@] has joined #debian
23:37<monsta|2truck>i mean its obviously leaner
23:37<phorce1>right now I am on a WINXP machine because of the upgrade in progress. Currently copying my squeeze mirror files to a local server
23:37<monsta|2truck>but still macbuntu had issues on mint debia
23:37-!-nardev [~nardev@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:37<monsta|2truck>but not on debian
23:37<monsta|2truck>it looks perfect in here
23:38<monsta|2truck>my usual os is mint 11 tho
23:38<monsta|2truck>everything works really good in there
23:38<monsta|2truck>and super easy
23:38<phorce1>I'm not real big on the super graphic desktop effects. I don't run compiz. I just want my 1080p video to work right
23:39<monsta|2truck>but i want debian for the speed and cause its the parent os for most of the stuff out there
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23:39<phorce1>stop loading stuff like compiz if you want speed <grin>
23:39<monsta|2truck>umm hahah
23:39<monsta|2truck>ok compiz wins lol
23:40<monsta|2truck>have u tried macbuntu
23:40<monsta|2truck>its a realy nice skin
23:40<monsta|2truck>basicly osx
23:40<phorce1>No. I can't realy take the office machine down often to "play with the guts" and I'm at the office 6 days a week, home 1 day
23:41<monsta|2truck>well macbuntu is a super easy install
23:41<monsta|2truck>1 min tops
23:41<monsta|2truck>./ force
23:41<monsta|2truck>try it
23:41<monsta|2truck>it also has a ./ force
23:41<monsta|2truck>nothing to lose realy
23:42<phorce1>but it would change the way my desktop looks, and require re-learning where to find the stuff I need to use every day. That would slow me down
23:42<kop>monsta|2truck: And it would break as debian upgrades.
23:42<monsta|2truck>not really
23:43<kop>monsta|2truck: Sure, there's a reason why package managers exist. No way it's going to survive a major upgrade, and I don't want any headaches with minior upgrades. I just want my computer to work.
23:43<phorce1>kop: I have a LOT of stuff I expect to break as I upgrade to Squeeze ---- which is why I ghosted my root/boot drive so I can swap back in about 5 minutes if it breaks too badly
23:43<monsta|2truck>u get debian only cause ur leet
23:43<kop>monsta|2truck: Nothing wroing with doing "extra stuff" if that's how you want to spend your time.
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23:43<monsta|2truck>and wana mess with stuff
23:44<monsta|2truck>id be still surfnig buntu
23:44-!-Se-bash [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:44<monsta|2truck>but i went to mint then mint debian now im in debian
23:44<kop>phorce1: Anything not mentioned in the release notes?
23:44<monsta|2truck>here is the thing tho
23:45<phorce1>kop: lots of hand installed stuff that I needed/wanted
23:45<monsta|2truck>i like to mess with stuff but i want stuff to be prety slik out of the box too
23:45<kop>phorce1: You've got sns?
23:45<monsta|2truck>debian is sort of there cept for the nvidia mess
23:46<kop>monsta|2truck: I don't want to mess with stuff. I want to make new stuff, and make stuff happen. Can't do that when everything else needs fixing.
23:46<phorce1>kop: not as a general rule. But as an ISP I have stuff that I have to keep up with that isn't always compatible with a "stable-only" system
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23:46<monsta|2truck>how the hell do u guys manage w out the desktop cube tho
23:46<kop>monsta|2truck: Viewports.
23:47<monsta|2truck>im a web and opengl programmer
23:47<kop>phorce1: That's a bit different, when you've specific requirements. But is there really stuff you need that's not packaged?
23:47<monsta|2truck>so yeah i dont want to mess setting shit up
23:47<monsta|2truck>but w debian u cant avoid it
23:47<monsta|2truck>its a barebones server os
23:47<monsta|2truck>which is what makes it fast
23:48<kop>monsta|2truck: If you install the gnome metapackage it turns into a desktop os pretty quick.
23:48<monsta|2truck>im in gnome
23:49<monsta|2truck>wait how come i cant paste in terminal
23:49<phorce1>kop: latest firefox, a quicken type financial software that I paid for (and can't remember the name of right now), Latest nVidia drivers in case a client seds me some off-the-wall super high def crap to review
23:49<kop>monsta|2truck: Using the middle mouse button? That's the sane way.
23:49<monsta|2truck>what does sane means
23:49<kop>phorce1: Sounds sane.
23:49<monsta|2truck>u r insulting me lol
23:50<phorce1>kop: and there are a few "toys" I installed to play with that I can't recall without going to look through /usr/local <heh>
23:50<monsta|2truck>u know most mice dont have middle
23:50<monsta|2truck>i had no clue it was bound
23:50<Jeff91>I'm experiencing this issue with testing - - anyone know if there is a proper work around short of downgrading my udev version?
23:50<kop>monsta|2truck: Humm. Maybe. Could be because you've got wud syndrome.
23:50<dpkg>nun uv us wull unswer yu uf yu ask luke u murun.
23:50<monsta|2truck>i use ctrl+shift+v
23:51<kop>monsta|2truck: Most mice do have a middle button. It's usually a scroll wheel and when you press down on it it presses the button.
23:51<monsta|2truck>no i get that
23:51<kop>Jeff91: Might try #debian-next.
23:52<monsta|2truck>but most server machines wont have a mouse with 3 btns
23:52<monsta|2truck>comon man
23:52<kop>monsta|2truck: So, you select and hillight by dragging the mouse, then use the middle button to paste.
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23:52<monsta|2truck>i get it, it werks
23:52<monsta|2truck>is there a keyboard workaround????
23:52<kop>monsta|2truck: If you're on the command line then you're most likely in readline and it has your editor's key bindings. (emacs by default iirc.)
23:53<kop>monsta|2truck: Then you can really work fast because you don't have to move your hand.
23:53-!-cybersphinx_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:53<kop>monsta|2truck: You use emacs or vi?
23:54<phorce1>monsta|2truck: if you have a 2 button mouse pressing BOTH buttons is usually bound to act as a middle button
23:54<Jeff91>thanks kop - trying there now
23:55<phorce1>(something that fires off after I'm in X keeps eating my left+right=middle binding. It works for a while, then it doesn't. Annoying as heck.
23:56<kop>monsta|2truck: If you don't use either, pick one and learn it. (I prefer emacs, but there's been holy wars fought over this.) If you use emacs don't forget to install the non-free emacs23-common-non-dfsg package so you can get help, take the tuitorial, etc.
23:56<kop>phorce1: Dunno. I've not had a 2 button mouse for ages.
23:56<monsta|2truck>i use vi
23:56*phorce1 uses joe
23:56<monsta|2truck>actualy vim
23:56<kop>phorce1: You might try mg or zile.
23:57<monsta|2truck>no way use vim
23:57<phorce1>kop: I have a wheel mouse but it's easier to use the two button chord without "twitching" the wheel
23:57<monsta|2truck>vim rules
23:58<kop>monsta|2truck: Ok, so you're insane. ;-) So, if you know how to cut and paste with vi then you do that at the console the same way. If you don't know how to cut and paste with vi then you don't really know how to use your editor. (Could be because it's so hard to use. *dig* *dig* O;-)
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23:58<monsta|2truck>dood kop
23:58<kop>monsta|2truck: You need to set your $EDITOR variable to get the right keybindings, I think.
23:58-!-chasckbv__ [~chasckbv@] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
23:58<monsta|2truck>i jus got debian
23:59<phorce1>kop: I use joe because of the pre-installed WordStar keybindings. I started "word processing" using WordStar on a CP/M machine.
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23:59<kop>phorce1: I used to use cpm, once upon a time.
---Logclosed Fri Dec 23 00:00:12 2011