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#debian IRC Logs for 2012-04-17

---Logopened Tue Apr 17 00:00:22 2012
---Daychanged Tue Apr 17 2012
00:00-!-stk [~stk@66.117.184.204] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
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---Logclosed Tue Apr 17 00:00:37 2012
---Logopened Tue Apr 17 00:00:45 2012
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00:00-!-Irssi: #debian: Total of 450 nicks [2 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 448 normal]
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00:53<enjoycrf>hihihi
00:53<enjoycrf>i got nvidia on debian
00:53<enjoycrf>whooheee
00:54-!-naiv [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-146-41.w83-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian
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01:00<poisoned>enderst, nvidia is good
01:01<BiG_NoBoDy>whois a`w`a`y
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01:05<nevyn>nvidia bad.
01:06<poisoned>why?
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01:21<enjoycrf>yey compiz on debian
01:21<enjoycrf>any1 need nvidia install script for squeeze
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01:33<kop>poisoned: Same reason broadcomm is bad.
01:35<poisoned>kop, what reason?
01:36<lostson>poisoned: because it's evil and closed source so you must rebel and not buy nvidia cards
01:36-!-Fotografiona [~Fotografi@g229114177.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #debian
01:37<sney>enjoycrf, no point since the 275.36 driver in squeeze backports is painless to install AND fully supported / official
01:37<kop>lostson: Yeah. Or simply suffer from incompatibleness.
01:37<lostson>everytime you buyg a proprietary piece of equipment a hippy dies
01:38<kop>lostson: No, an old piece of equipment that the manufacturer no longer supports dies.
01:38<lostson>must be why i have nvidia cards in every machine
01:38<sney>nvidia's hardware is basically fine, it'd just be nice if they contributed to nouveau for the legacy cards instead of just dropping support
01:39<poisoned>ok, if not nvidia then what?
01:39<poisoned>ati? intel?
01:39<lostson>well perhaps they will now that the joined the linux foundation
01:39<poisoned>cyrrus?
01:39<jm_>wishful thinking
01:39<kop>poisoned: Matrox! ;-)
01:39<lostson>its all phiolospohical crap use what you want
01:39<nevyn>poisoned: intel
01:39<poisoned>oh god
01:40<poisoned>why intel?
01:40<nevyn>they employ a bunch of X devs
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01:40<sney>broadcom is shit (at least, until recently) because they make nonstandard garbage NICs that are extremely cpu-dependent. so you need some silly kludge of a driver to make it even work
01:40<nevyn>s/X/Weyland/
01:40-!-fabrianchi [~fabrianch@r186-48-7-76.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #debian
01:40<kop>lostson: Right, that philosphcial crap that doesn't matter until suddenly it does because your hardware is out of support.
01:40<poisoned>everything is shit... some shit just works, some just for fun
01:40<sney>amd's ati division contributes to radeon, so they get points for that, and they've never really wanted to develop linux drivers anyway
01:41<scientes>wayland+1
01:41<sney>wayland seems interesting and X was always terrible but I'll believe it's a replacement when I actually see it
01:41<lostson>kop all of my cards work just fine even the 8 year old ones so your point is moot much like your hippie bullshit
01:41<sney>people have been claiming "ooh, X replacement" for years and I cannot get exited about talk
01:41-!-liegruppe [~felix@dslb-092-075-205-004.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #debian
01:42<sney>excited, even
01:42<nevyn>sney: it's not really X replacement.. more X evolution
01:42<sney>I'm familiar with what wayland claims to be and do
01:42<scientes>sney, tizen is supposedly going to ship it
01:42-!-naz [~naz@c122-106-27-222.rivrw1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:43<jm_>well they finally have a first real release of wayland, but long way to go still
01:43<kop>lostson: It's ok man, the hippies are used to the freeloaders that rely on their work.
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01:44<jm_>evolution? hardly that when it will be missing things that X can do
01:44<scientes>jm_, not really
01:44<jm_>yes really
01:44<nevyn>yeah really
01:44*poisoned X-man
01:44<nevyn>the plan is to have X for weston
01:45<nevyn>the same way macos and windows do X now
01:45<scientes>well, i guess i would relly like a wayland2wayland
01:45<sney>scientes, did you get all stoked about Y Windows in 2006 too? :P
01:45<scientes>sney, nah, i dont really care about wayland
01:45<scientes>i'm just bullshitting
01:45*scientes likes systemd however
01:46<nevyn>so... http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/491509/ab9caa3fab0770b5/ lets see if this gets me in trouble....
01:46<scientes>...which gets alot of flak
01:46<sney>we should all be in trouble for being offtopic in #debian1
01:46*nevyn likes pulseaudio which get's more flack than systemd
01:46<sney>!~
01:46<dpkg>~ is, like, a reference to your home directory, or an apt-enhanced IRC shortcut (w00t!), or ask me about <+>
01:46<sney>thanks dpkg.
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01:49<scientes>nevyn, pulseaudio WAS negitive for super-modern hardware like SD Live!
01:49<scientes>*SB
01:49*scientes thinks its funny sound hardware has gotten less and less featurful
01:49<nevyn>nah.
01:49<jm_>that's because windows does everything in software nowadays
01:50<nevyn>scientes: I like my hardware to be like the rocks it's made from. dumb
01:50<scientes>yeah, but hardware mixing is nice
01:50<jm_>so common hardware got shittier as a result
01:50<nevyn>no it isn't
01:50<scientes>when you have the hardware for it
01:50<scientes>anyways, i guess it doesn't matter, but pulse did break my sound with the emu10k1 card for me
01:50<scientes>other than that pulseaudio is clearly a good thing
01:51<scientes>that card doesn't even work at all with windows any more, so go figure
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01:52<jm_>yeah that's why I decided to not buy any products from them, same as microsoft ;)
01:53<scientes>it works great in linux, as long as you use alsa
01:53*scientes hasn't tried it recently
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01:56*nevyn likes that it handles him hotplugging soundcards and lets him re-route playing streams
01:56-!-aspirant_2000_ [~aspirant_@p5B3EF0FC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
01:57<scientes>https://lwn.net/images/2012/gnome-debian.png
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01:59<madsci44>coffee or beer... hmmm...
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02:13<sxlan3>wht's up
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02:18<madsci44>uhoh - looks like my SSD is not playing nice with my SATA controller
02:18-!-dotovr [~kumatsuga@180.251.2.103] has joined #debian
02:19<dotovr>hi all
02:19<dotovr>anyone, can you see this error ?
02:19<dotovr>E: Internal error: APT::pkgPackageManager::MaxLoopCount reached in SmartConfigure for gconf-defaults-service:i386, aborting
02:20<dotovr>what about this?
02:20<dotovr>i'm using debian sid
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02:21<sxlan3>wht are you trying to do???
02:22<nevyn>!#debian-next
02:22-!-Emmanuel_Chanel [star2@L057107.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #debian
02:22<nevyn>!debian-next
02:22<nevyn>hrm
02:22<dotovr>emmm
02:23<nevyn>dotovr: #debian is for stable #debian-next is for testing/unstable
02:24<dotovr>ok i will try move on to debian-next
02:24<nevyn>dotovr: and if you can't work that out... you shouldn't be running sid
02:24<dotovr>thank
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02:46<madsci44>does anyone know if current grub works well on GPT partitions with an EFI bios?
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03:27<EmleyMoor>Is there a "recipe" anywhere for a "metering" box? (one that connects between a switch and a router and counts the amount of data destined for particular IPs)?
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03:37<nevyn>EmleyMoor: there's a canned solution (ntop) but it creates a spof
03:37<nevyn>it can operate in transparent mode I think
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03:38<Maulkin>iptraf may help, or you could roll your own solution with iptables. Or snort or something
03:39<nevyn>http://www.ntop.org/
03:39<nevyn>also the guys at wakito uni do some neat stuff.
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03:42<nevyn>EmleyMoor:
03:42<nevyn>EmleyMoor: http://wand.cs.waikato.ac.nz/projects
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03:45<EmleyMoor>I know it's actually my partner's Windows box that's sucking the bandwidth
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04:06<jlamsens>Hi, I'm installing Debian 6.0.4 AMD64 using the first CD, choose 'English' for language, 'Other->Europe->Belgium' for location, and now I don't find 'Belgium' as 'country to base default locale settings on' ?
04:06<jlamsens>Should I have to download the complete DVD for that ?
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04:06<jlamsens>Are not all 'locales' on the CD then ?
04:07<jm_>belgium doesn't exist
04:08<jlamsens>yes it does :-) but apparently not in the Debian CD1 installer :-)
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04:09<jlamsens>so it is not possible to a be-latin-1 locale and have an 'azerty' keyboard during installation ?
04:09<jlamsens>right ?
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04:11<jm_>why would anyone care about locale during installation?
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04:13<jlamsens>if no one should care, why is it included in the installer then ? just a friendly question here :-)
04:13<jlamsens>if I rephrase my question: what are the consequences of choosing a 'locale' here ?
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04:14<jm_>it will configure default locale, something you can change later, but if I would have to guess I'd say it's because English was selected
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04:16<jm_>if you select say french it would offer _BE but alas, that doesn't help with flemish
04:17<jm_>ahh Dutch works for that
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04:28<scientes>indeed, language narrows down locale choices unless you use the "expert" install mode
04:28<scientes>because such a narrowing is perfectly sensible jlamsens
04:29<stompy>what up #debian
04:29<jlamsens>ok, tx
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04:32<jlamsens>but 'expert' mode still does not allow me to choose 'be-latin-1' locale... I'll try a few things first and then come back here to explain further my 'problem'...
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04:34<scientes>jlamsens, it allows alot of locales, include non-UTF8 ones
04:34*scientes is a native english speaker, so doesn't excercise much localization
04:35<scientes>hell, if i just used LANG=C my software might get faster
04:35<jlamsens>:-)
04:35<nevyn>scientes: I know that feeling
04:35<nevyn>jlamsens: is BE_EN a valid locale?
04:35<scientes>does LANG=C allow UTF-8 in the source strings?
04:35<jm_>just select french/dutch and you'll be able to select _BE locale or simply reconfigure it after it's installed
04:36<scientes>nevyn, no, the language is always lower case, like be_EN.UTF-8
04:36<nevyn>oh righ.
04:36<nevyn>my bad.
04:36<scientes>wait en_BE.UTF-8
04:36<nevyn>country is lowercase you men
04:36<nevyn>no bleh
04:36<nevyn>sigh
04:36<nevyn>is that even valid?
04:36<jlamsens>I'll figure it out, tx all
04:36<scientes>i have no idea but its the right format
04:36<nevyn>is the point
04:36<scientes>language lower case, country upper case
04:37<nevyn>ie: is english a official language of Belgium?
04:38<enjoycrf>yes
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04:40<nevyn>hrm
04:40<jm_>be_ is not for belgium, it's belarus
04:42<scientes>jm_, nope http://www.spoonfork.org/isocodes.html
04:42<scientes>be is belgium
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04:42<scientes>also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-1
04:42<scientes>belarus is by
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04:43<jm_>you are mixing two things
04:43*nevyn sits and listens...
04:44<jm_>the format is language_territory
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04:49<jm_>(so those ISO codes are for the territory part, while my explanation above was for the language part), and you can find them quicker in /usr/share/zoneinfo/iso3166.tab
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04:53<scientes> yeah but he wanted english, if i am not mistaken
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04:54<jm_>that's because he can't select something relevant for .be
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04:55<scientes>nl_BE.UTF-8 maybe?
04:55<jm_>yes that's what I said it should be selected - french or dutch and then one can select _BE too
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04:56<scientes><scientes> does LANG=C allow UTF-8 in the source strings?
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04:57<nitalaut>guys is there centralized(client-server) package update system for debian ?
04:57<jm_>not on linux AFAIK, it's possible on hp-ux for example
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04:58<daemonkeeper>nitalaut: puppet.
04:59<nitalaut>daemonkeeper, I don't think puppet can do exectly ehat I want
04:59<nitalaut>*what
04:59<scientes>nitalaut, spacewalk
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05:00<scientes>nitalaut, http://spacewalk.redhat.com/
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05:01<nitalaut>scientes, thanks looks that is what I want, but does it work with Debian ??
05:01<scientes>nitalaut, it has ongoing work for working with debian
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05:01<nitalaut>(
05:01<scientes>which started with a GSOC last year
05:02<scientes>https://fedorahosted.org/spacewalk/wiki/Deb_support_in_spacewalk
05:02<nevyn>so spacewalk is really really neat if you need to argue with people about cve's
05:02<nitalaut>apt-dates is good solution but it requires ssh access which I don't want to grant
05:02<scientes>nevyn, explain
05:02<nevyn>but apt-proxy or apt-mirror is as good if you just need an organisational package clearing house
05:03<scientes>nevyn, apt-cacher-ng is much better
05:03<scientes>oh wait, clearing house
05:03<nevyn>like it was outside it's now inside
05:03<scientes>oh, that will work with apt-cacher-ng
05:03<nevyn>and we've passed through a control gate
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05:04<scientes><nevyn> so spacewalk is really really neat if you need to argue with people about cve's
05:04<scientes>what do you mean
05:04<nevyn>scientes: so organisations security teams come to ops teams and say "auscert just published this CVE number wah wah wah" what are you doing about it
05:05<nevyn>scientes: spacewalk let's you do things like identify which systems in your environment are running affected versions etc really easily
05:05<nevyn>so you can say this ada vulnerability doesn't apply to any production systems.
05:05<scientes>and it looks like it has clear debian support
05:06<scientes>https://fedorahosted.org/spacewalk/wiki/RegisteringClients
05:06<scientes>"Note: packages are not signed. "
05:06<scientes>wow that is unprofessional
05:06<nevyn>what is?
05:06<nevyn>not signing packages? yes yes it is.
05:06<scientes>lack of secure apt
05:07<lindi->well technically binary packages are not signed in official debian either
05:07<scientes>really? there is a automatic signing key, and the buildds are relatively secure
05:07<lindi->scientes: the Release file is signed
05:08<scientes>semantics
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05:08<scientes>thats why i said "secure apt"
05:08<lindi->scientes: not entirely, afaik redhat actually signs the individual packages
05:08<nevyn>they do.
05:08<scientes>ohhh, means you cant verify old packages
05:08<scientes>well you can, if you keep a old copy of the release file
05:08<scientes>and the signing key
05:09<scientes>cause its signed with the real key, not any session key
05:09<scientes>still semantics as far as i see it
05:10<scientes>fedora also has a signed module patch
05:10*scientes has been meaning to try that one out
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05:11<scientes>mainly just to keep users from f'ing up their system without having to install their own whole kernel
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05:12<scientes>but i guess just not having the header package available accomplishes the same thing
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05:16<lindi->scientes: yeah there's afaik no automated way to verify if a binary package has been tampered with or not
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05:16<lindi->scientes: if you just find a binary package from a usb stick or something, that is
05:17<scientes>lindi-, true, you could do it with a full release and packages file
05:17<nevyn>you an of a rpm but not of a deb.
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05:17<nevyn>s/an/can/
05:17<scientes>but it isn't documented or supported, or really sensible
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05:17<lindi->scientes: yeah but then you need to figure out which release had it
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05:17<scientes>maybe that should be fixed
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05:18<scientes>and allow either way
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05:18<scientes>i'd like it to be an optional issuer file in the ar archive
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05:19<scientes>or some other name
05:19<scientes>nah
05:19<scientes>oh wait you have to sign the control stuff too
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05:20<scientes>so yeah thats basically the only way
05:20<scientes>and it would lead to differn't checksums for secure apt
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05:21<scientes>lindi-, what do you think?
05:22<lindi->scientes: it's a really old issue
05:23<scientes>it would be cool if it could be elegent, and use the same method for the whole release and the individual packages
05:23<lindi->for compatibility the easiest solution probably would be to ship separate .debsign files
05:23<scientes>and avoid doing all the crypto when the release file is good
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05:23<scientes>just one hash match
05:23<scientes>would a new file in the ar archive break stuff?
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05:24<scientes>i.e. outside of control.tar.foo and data.tar.foo
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05:25<lindi->scientes: almost surely it would break something
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05:25<scientes>however it might annoy people that the servers hosting the package would change the checksum
05:25<lindi->scientes: but who would add this new file?
05:25<scientes>cause it wouldn't be signed by the author
05:25<scientes>you want one master signing key
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05:25<lindi->scientes: author?
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05:25<scientes>s/author/maintainer/
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05:26<scientes>wait, its already being compiled by the buildds
05:26<scientes>so in that case it doesn't really matter
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05:26<scientes>if the checksums change
05:26<lindi->scientes: one architecture comes from the maintainer and rest of them are built by buildds
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05:27<scientes>lindi-, well then it would change the checksum of that uploaded deb
05:27<scientes>and could that be accepted?
05:27<lindi->maybe
05:27<scientes>it could just append it, according to my understanding of ar
05:27<scientes>so that you could actually checksum the original file perhaps?
05:28<scientes>even with the appended signature
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05:28<lindi->don't know ar too well
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05:28<scientes>but that is not critical
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05:29<scientes>doing it in the .deb seems far nicer
05:29<scientes>that way making it a raw sign is fine too, instead of ascii-armored
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05:34<scientes>cause it seems like a debsign file would give you: ability to have package signing and apt signing not interfere with each other
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05:34<scientes>and putting it in the file could not both 1. have no inteference and 2. not have upgrade issues
05:36<scientes>meh, but debsign files would also be a mess to integrate with the mirror stuff
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05:37<scientes>you have a whole anoter http request for a tiny file, you have to get the mirror to not list the files normally cause it would causes bloat of commonly downloaded files
05:37<scientes>and then somehow else tell the client that such files are available (and users probably wouldn't want to download them until they needed them and they weren't available)
05:38<scientes>and you have the overhead of ascii armoring them for sanity purposes of their now visibility
05:39<enjoycrf>YES! ur site is suffering from spagheti code
05:39<enjoycrf>lololololol
05:39<scientes>enjoycrf, ?
05:39<enjoycrf>so funi
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05:40<scientes>i think putting in deb seems sanest, as long as another file in the ar causes no problems (i dont think it would)
05:40<scientes>that would just use a hash against data.tar.foo and control.tar.foo
05:41<ansgar>scientes: That is what dpkg-sig does. If you want it used for the archive, there is (at least) one open issue in the bug tracker.
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05:46<scientes>cool that is reasonable
05:46<scientes>lindi-, ^
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05:48<scientes>yeah it just schticks it on the end or the ar
05:49<enjoycrf>http://image.spreadshirt.net/image-server/image/product/19099324/view/1/type/png/width/280/height/280/spaghetti-code-1418.png
05:49<scientes>with a checksum of all the files in the ar except itsself
05:49<scientes>interested that that is exactly what i was suggesting :P
05:50<enjoycrf>http://thinkfirstcodelater.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/istock-000005807723small.jpg
05:50<scientes>now i can see that ar is really quite a simple, sane format
05:51<scientes>"_gpgbuilder" is a little wierd, but whatever
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05:57<ayaka>how to auto config xorg.conf
05:57<movl>Xorg -configure
05:57<scientes>ayaka, ^
05:57<scientes>haha
05:57<scientes>about to type that
05:57<scientes>ayaka, you dont need a xorg.conf by default
05:57<babilen>!empty xorg.conf
05:57<dpkg>Starting from Lenny, /etc/X11/xorg.conf is often basically empty or non-existent, as X auto-detects your hardware and starts the X server accordingly, nothing to worry about. Ask me about <xorg config> and <xrandr> for ways to configure Xorg. See also <xorg config squeeze>, <xorg.conf.d>, <xorg hal>.
05:57<scientes>but Xorg -configure will print out the same one you end up without one
05:57<scientes>so you can change it for your needs
05:58<movl>...unless you have some odd hardware and need a special config file
05:58<scientes><scientes> so you can change it for your needs
05:58<babilen>Those changes should rather go in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ as one typically does not need a complete xorg.conf
05:58<movl>I was typing already :P
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05:59<ayaka>if i want to it work with fbdev, i thunk i need to config it
05:59<ayaka>s/thunk/think
05:59<scientes>ayaka, what is the device?
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06:00<scientes>Xorg -configure might have a Driver "fbdev" section if you have xserver-xorg-video-fbdev installed and devices pluged in (/dev/fb0, etc)
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06:00<scientes>and you could cut out the other sections that use other drivers
06:00<ayaka>scientes an arm devices
06:01<scientes>ayaka, it will work without a xorg.conf with fbdev even on arm
06:01<scientes>i've done it myself
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06:01<ayaka>scientes well,can i talke more it with you,I stock in boot(kernel is right)
06:02<scientes>ayaka, well, what is the hardware/driver?
06:02<scientes>and kernel version
06:02<scientes>and do you have /dev/fb0 device
06:02<scientes>or a /dev/dri/card0, etc device
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06:03<ayaka>scientes what i want to know is ,do you get something like mmc_blk or sd_blk in dmesg
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06:03<ayaka>I want to go for dinner,back in 1 hours
06:03<scientes>ayaka, check if you have those devices in your /dev
06:03<ayaka>thank all you
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06:03<scientes>ayaka, maybe tomarrow then
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06:12<zeev>Hi, I have problems with pings on my router from outside ( 79.181.29.214 ). However I can use www, skype and voip. Is there a problem with my router or with my ISP? how do I check it? thank you....
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06:17<scientes>zeev, you are trying to ping youself? http://www.canyouseeme.org/
06:17<scientes>google "open port scanner"
06:17<scientes>zeev, also see miniupnpc and libnatpmp-bin
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06:27<zeev>I tried to traceroute 79.181.29.214 from outside and it stops working on 81.218.103.105  bzq-218-103-105.red.bezeqint.net . what does this mean? that this machine doesn't work?
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06:30<movl>not necessarily
06:32<zeev>so how should I check what the problem is?
06:33<zeev>I can ping my router/access it via browser from my machine, but not from outside
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06:33<movl>zeev: check the router's security settings
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06:34<zeev>I didn't change them
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06:35<kimera>join #ATENA
06:35<kimera>join #ATENA
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06:36<zeev>I there a way to prove that ISP has problems with routing?
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06:37<ex0a>zeev: many (most?) routers have firewalls that filter out ICMPs (pings)
06:38<zeev>so why I can do it from inside?
06:38<ex0a>because you're in a LAN, not on the WAN
06:38<zeev>and the problem is with webinterface, other servers as well
06:38<ex0a>the security settings are MUCH different between the two since most routers consider the LAN secure area
06:38<movl>like I said, check security settings
06:39*nevyn considers all blue wires evil I hate blue.
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06:39<zeev>movl: which one?
06:39<movl>WAN, ICMP
06:40<ex0a>zeev, maybe you should look up the manual for your router and have a read
06:40<ex0a>it sounds to me like you don't fully understand it's purpose
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06:40<zeev>guys, I configured it and worked for months, then out of a sudden it stopped
06:40<zeev>I did nothing
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06:40<zeev>to the router
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06:41<zeev>and traceroute 79.181.29.214 hints there might be a problem
06:41<movl>zeev: never hurts to check,,,,,
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06:42<ex0a>you could always contact your isp, but i have a feeling they're going to tell you to do the same things movl is before they do anything more
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06:43<movl>as long as packets go out of their routers succesfully, I'd say it's not a problem
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06:55<WizardNumberNext>movl, most ISP do not do anything with ICMP
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06:56<WizardNumberNext>but most hosts do drop ICMP, even through standard do say you have answer to ICMP
06:56<WizardNumberNext>zeev, read two last lines from me
06:57<movl>WizardNumberNext: that was kinda my point
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06:59<WizardNumberNext>movl, zeev, it is against BCP to drop ICMP, but quite big amount of hosts (router is host as well) do drop ICMP. Check your router and if ICMP is off, turn it on. Routers should never drop ICMP packet not destined to them, they are required to forward it.
06:59<zeev>ping is not my problem
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07:00<zeev>its only a way to check that something is wrong
07:00<movl>it's also ICMP
07:00<WizardNumberNext>zeev, yes but traceroute is dying out somewhere, is it?
07:00<zeev>I actually have an fossil repo installed locally
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07:00<Heiserhorn>apt-get --purge autoremove
07:00<zeev>and people from outside do not get to it
07:00<ayaka>can I config the X in chroot by X -configure for used to boot into it
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07:01<movl>ayaka: please rephrase that
07:01<WizardNumberNext>zeev, something between them and you do not forward packets
07:01<zeev>WizardNumberNext: thats my point - where is the problem?
07:01<WizardNumberNext>and it is most probably your router
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07:02<zeev>(even though I didn't change anything?)
07:02<WizardNumberNext>zeev, actually, if you are not only person who have physical access to it, somebody could reset it and you think it is set-up to your liking, but it is factory-defaults
07:03<zeev>now I'm in my browser
07:03<WizardNumberNext>just guess, but this how we do it
07:03<zeev>what should i check?
07:03<WizardNumberNext>firewall, port forwarding, things like that
07:04<ayaka>movl ,if an X is in chroot,can i use X -configure ,the X will be used after I boot into the chroot system(not chroot that time)
07:04<WizardNumberNext>you can give me some image, so I would be able to lead you
07:04<zeev>WizardNumberNext: I see things that I have defined, so it wasn't reseted
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07:05<zeev>WizardNumberNext: what could prevent routing?
07:05<WizardNumberNext>ayaka, X in chroot - depends. Do you have /proc and /sys mounted in chroot, and if use selinux - /selinux as well
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07:06<WizardNumberNext>zeev, maybe simply something have crashed, turn it off for 30 seconds and on again
07:06<zeev>ok...
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07:07<ayaka>but it tell me falling back to old probe method for fbdev
07:08<WizardNumberNext>ayaka, last time I did it, it was on Lenny with Squeeze in chroot - worked
07:09<WizardNumberNext>ayaka, with both /proc and /sys mounted obviously, otherwise it won't work
07:09<ayaka>I mounted,even devpts
07:09<Sicelo>ayaka: you won't be able to do X -configure when booting?
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07:10<WizardNumberNext>ayaka, yes I forgot about /dev and /dev/pts (later gets usefull with terminal emulators)
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07:10<ayaka>Sicelo I can't boot into,seems mmc_blk_rw_rq(it called sd_blk_issue_rq here) stop me
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07:11<WizardNumberNext>ayaka, but it could depend on hardware as well and if you are using hardware already. Sometimes it won't work, because of different versions of drivers
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07:12<WizardNumberNext>for instance nvidia dislike such tricks, but with 3dfx it was perfectly ok
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07:13<ayaka>but how to mount /dev
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07:19<WizardNumberNext>ayaka, mount -t devtmpfs -o rw,relatime,size=1861812k,nr_inodes=465453,mode=755 udev /dev
07:19<WizardNumberNext>taken from whezzy
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07:20<ayaka>I will try
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07:20<WizardNumberNext>BBS, I am shifting NAS shares and it would take few minutes
07:22<WizardNumberNext>ok, I am back, copying started, next drive to be regenerated quite soon
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07:24<ayaka>no such type devtmpfs
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07:27<Honeyman>Hello all. Maybe anybody has an idea how to forcibly stop accelerated Synaptic touchpad two-fingers scrolling when any of the keyboard keys is pressed?
07:27<Honeyman>I mean, Synaptics
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07:28<WizardNumberNext>ayaka, what kernel do you run
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07:35<ayaka>thank you ,I seems I can't mount dev
07:36<WizardNumberNext>ayaka, maybe devtmpfs isn't implemented yet in your kernel
07:36<WizardNumberNext>then you need to use different one (maybe udev, maybe devfs - no idea about nameing)
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07:37<ayaka>devfs is too old,my kernel is 2.6
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07:47<pavii>hdparm can see the hard disk , but its not listed by fdisk . hdparm says HDIO_DRIVE_CMD(identify) failed: Input/output error due to some bad boot sector .
07:47<pavii>What might be the issue ?
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07:49<ayaka>if rsyslog,does it mean that rootfs has been mounted init has start,kernel has finish most work
07:49<ayaka>if rsyslog start ,does it mean that rootfs has been mounted init has start,kernel has finish most work
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07:52<nocturnal>my /etc/sudoers is default right now, debian 6. which means the last line is #includedir /etc/sudoers.d. and in /etc/sudoers.d/sudo.group I have the line %sudo ALL=(ALL) ALL and the file itself is 0440. my user is a member of group sudo. yet when I try to sudo it says I'm not in sudoers.
07:52<nocturnal>what is up?
07:52<Guest662>and this is about what?
07:52-!-plb_ [~smuxi@piegan.imag.fr] has joined #debian
07:52<Guest662>i du not join it
07:53<Guest662>it is onlu game witout really reason
07:53<Guest662>by
07:54<Guest662>bye
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07:54<Guest662>be bye be babe
07:54<Guest662>hi
07:54<ayaka>!stop Guest662
07:54<Guest662>i close too
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07:55<nocturnal>was that a bot made to write with bad spelling and grammar?
07:55<ayaka>nocturnal do you have a # before %sudo
07:55<nocturnal>ayaka: in /etc/sudoers yes because by default that line is commented.
07:55<nocturnal>hence the sudoers.d
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07:56<ayaka>remove it
07:56<ayaka>remove the #
07:56<nocturnal>ok
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07:56<nocturnal>works now, thanks
07:56<nocturnal>so I learned that you can't just put anything in sudoers.d/files
07:56<ayaka>you are welcome
07:57<pavii>so anyone has a solution for broken hard disk with wiped out / bad sectored boot sector ?
07:57<ayaka>no you can put sometime in that directory
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08:00<WizardNumberNext>pavii, do you mean broken sector 0 (MBR)?
08:00<pavii>WizardNumberNext: exactly the 0th one is gone
08:00<WizardNumberNext>ayaka, I was away, I do not know how it is called then, but I would try find it in sources or in man mount
08:01<WizardNumberNext>pavi, HDD is good only for RMA
08:01<ayaka>WizardNumberNext thank you
08:02<pavii>WizardNumberNext: sfdisk: read error on /dev/sdc - cannot read sector 0 /dev/sdc: unrecognized partition table type
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08:02<pavii>WizardNumberNext: RMA ?
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08:03<WizardNumberNext>but you try that trick: hdparm --write-sector 0 --yes-i-know-what-i-am-doing /dev/hda CHECK MILLION TIMES which drive you are going to change before pressing enter! this will overwrite your MBR on specified drive
08:03<WizardNumberNext>pavi, just send it to producent
08:03<pavii>WizardNumberNext: I have some important data , dont want to lose it , customer service will surely wipe it clean or give a new one
08:04<WizardNumberNext>pavii, then you need to overwrite this sector
08:04<WizardNumberNext>but be careful, not to do it with different drive!
08:05<WizardNumberNext>it could help, but there's no warranty
08:05<pavii>WizardNumberNext: I am on a live USB . Nothing to loose :)
08:05<jm_>you could try creating an image from it and then use a tool like gpart on the image to rescue the data
08:06<WizardNumberNext>I have 500GB Hitachi PATA drive - and it have problems with sertor address marks - this helps, but if it is hard bad block, then this won't help
08:06<pavii>jm_: how to create image ? using dd ?
08:06<WizardNumberNext>pavii, in this case dd is useless - use dd_rescue
08:07<jm_>pavii: dd will fail if it can't read a block, so yes, ddrescue or gddrescue packages
08:07<pavii>By the way once with DamnSmallLinux I was able to see the files ( does it mean anything ) . The hard disk doesnt get detected all the time
08:07<WizardNumberNext>ayaka, can you be a bit more specific about your kernel version
08:07<WizardNumberNext>then it would make my search easier
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08:08<WizardNumberNext>pavii, dmesg | grep hda
08:09<WizardNumberNext>pavii, obviously change it to whatever your drive is
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08:10<WizardNumberNext>pavii, do you know partition table there?
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08:11<pavii>No I am not sure of the partition table . :(
08:11<WizardNumberNext>is it single partition? If it is single patrion - you are lucky, because it would start either at block 63 or 2048
08:11<WizardNumberNext>do you know how many partitions were there?
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08:12<pavii>WizardNumberNext: http://dpaste.com/733025/
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08:13<pavii>I am guessing around 6 - 8 partitions .
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08:14<WizardNumberNext>pavii, we need to change strategy. grep "Apr 17" /var/log/messages | grep sdc
08:14<WizardNumberNext>cause I need detection messages
08:14<abrotman>didn't we talk about 'enter' yesterday?
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08:15<pavii>WizardNumberNext: cool , will do
08:15<WizardNumberNext>abrotman, we did, putting it one line would make a bit of mess
08:15<abrotman>as opposed to spread out on 15 lines?
08:16<abrotman>i think jm_ has the better plan anyway
08:16<WizardNumberNext>abrotman, as always you are right
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08:16<pavii>WizardNumberNext: you need all the lines ? its 1.3k lines . shall I paste the first and last lines ?
08:17<WizardNumberNext>jm_ plan is good, actually very good, mine isn't bad either, just differend approach - I would like to save a bit of time, but if I would be unsuccessful, then time would be wasted
08:17<WizardNumberNext>pavii, just 10-50 first line will do
08:18<pavii>WizardNumberNext: http://dpaste.com/733026/
08:19<WizardNumberNext>pavii, right now I want to diagnoze what kernel is saying about this drive, then try to overwrite block 0, run smartctl to run long test on drive (would take up to 4 hours, but this time won't be wasted), then run parted, detect partitions and salvage data either as partition images or simply copy file
08:20-!-saep [~saep@vpw.wh.uni-dortmund.de] has joined #debian
08:20<abrotman>uhm, i don't think he shold be doing anything to thaat drive but trying to make an image
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08:20<WizardNumberNext>pavii, small adjustment - use /var/log/messages.0
08:21<pavii>ok so that you get the oldest messages
08:21<abrotman>glad that's not my data that WizardNumberNext is messing with
08:21<WizardNumberNext>abrotman, if we run smartctl, then we would know, if we fight with one badblock or many
08:22<pavii>WizardNumberNext: should I run smartctl after overwriting block 0 ?
08:22<WizardNumberNext>abrotman, I have constantly 'failing' drive, where I do keep data - for 2 years I didn't loose single block of data on this drive
08:22<WizardNumberNext>pavii, definitelly
08:23<WizardNumberNext>abrotman, I think this is quite enough, thid HDD is loosing address marks and this quite common reason for having badblocks (most of them are due to address marks)
08:24<abrotman>WizardNumberNext: his data isn't your data .. that's nice you're willing to put your own data at risk .. this drive is screwed up .. trying to read/write any more than you have to risks *all* the data
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08:24<abrotman>as i said .. glad it's not my data you're messing with
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08:31<WizardNumberNext>abrotman, any way drive did reject this command
08:31<abrotman>where did he say that?
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08:32<abrotman>WizardNumberNext: ?
08:32<WizardNumberNext>on PM
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08:33<pavii>yeah it rejected it
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08:33<WizardNumberNext>actually his drive do behave in very peculiar maner - it do say it is 600PB, which is impossible
08:33-!-wangyq_ [~wangyq_@117.79.233.249] has joined #debian
08:33<abrotman>WizardNumberNext: please do NOT take conversations to PM in this channel
08:34<WizardNumberNext>I never have seen something like that - I did see bad drives which stopped to say size or report 0 but bigger, then actual?
08:34<abrotman>WizardNumberNext: we strive to keep all conversations in the channel (relating to support), if you can't do this, please provide support somewhere else
08:34<abrotman>hiding because you're wrong doesn't help pavii
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08:35<abrotman>WizardNumberNext: hello?
08:36<WizardNumberNext>I do not hide, and I do not think any of this is wrong, it could be longer way, but in the end it works not only for - I did salvage data for many people that way
08:36<abrotman>you did hide
08:36<abrotman>you took it to PM because someone was disagreeing with you
08:36<abrotman>that's not how it works here ..
08:37<WizardNumberNext>I didn't, pavii, did take it PM
08:37<abrotman>And then your response should be "Please keep it in the channel, we do that so there is peer review"
08:37<WizardNumberNext>and it would next time exactly like that
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08:38<WizardNumberNext>simply I didn't take in account, that somebody could find it usefull (in any way) later on - simply didn't thought about this, which I should do
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08:39<abrotman>right ... even though you claim you've saved lots of data that way .. nope, wouldn't be useful
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08:40<WizardNumberNext>pavii, abrotman, any way long smart test on that size of HDD wouls take 200-260 minutes and it would be usefull, cause not drive do not report proper size, maybe it would fix itself, if not, then we have no choice but to use drive on different controller
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08:41<WizardNumberNext>pavii, I just got the idea. Is drive connected to motherboard or any 'normal' controller (not USB or firewire bridge)
08:41<abrotman>has he tried reseating the cables?
08:42<abrotman>or changing cables?
08:42<WizardNumberNext>abrotman, I simply didn't take my time to think that way (usefulness for others), which is my mistake
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08:43<WizardNumberNext>abrotman, I didn't told him to do that, but it could be actually useful
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08:43<WizardNumberNext>pavii, is your SATA cable is definitely alright
08:43<acer>fvhww
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08:44<WizardNumberNext>pavii, do not do anything with cable, before I would be sure that it is connection related
08:45<abrotman>see .. peer review
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08:45<grobda24>Hello. Are there any reports of the nvidia drivers not working with wheezy kernel 3.2.0-2-686-pae ? My xorg goes into an infinite restart loop but is ok with nouveau drivers. Is earched bugs but can't see anything.
08:46<WizardNumberNext>abrotman, you right. This way we can do much more then doing it alone
08:46<grobda24>Sorry, that was meant for #debian-next, my bad
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08:46<WizardNumberNext>grobda24, could we have your /var/log/Xorg.log ?
08:47<grobda24>WizardNumberNext, ok, in a mo
08:47<abrotman>Xorg.0.log ..
08:48<WizardNumberNext>pavii, are you still with us?
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08:49<WizardNumberNext>oh, he did left us. Wonder why?
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08:52<grobda24>WizardNumberNext, ok, here - http://djbarney.org/temp/
08:53<grobda24>those two are repeated many times as the server loops around
08:55<WizardNumberNext>grobda24, you are still using nouveau driver instead of nvidia
08:55<WizardNumberNext>I think you have to explicitly ask for nvidia driver in /etc/X11/xorg.conf
08:57<WizardNumberNext>or remove nouveau driver altogether
08:57<grobda24>WizardNumberNext, ah. Thought purging it was enough. I have a xorg.conf that should work.
08:57<grobda24>I'll try that
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09:09<reposistoris>ls
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09:11<pavii>abrotman: WizardNumberNext sorry was disconnected
09:13<SynrG>public service announcement: debian-live squeeze images are now available (have been for some days now) and torrents for these are up too (since yesterday). See http://www.debian.org/CD/live/
09:13<SynrG>for 6.0.4, i mean
09:14<SynrG>(and yeah, i know that's a 2.5 month lag from the release announcement was made; don't shoot the messenger ;)
09:16<pavii>WizardNumberNext: what do you suggest I do next ? use gdd ?
09:17<WizardNumberNext>pavii, how drive is connected? Directly to motherboard or by some bridge (USB firewire)? Is your SATA cable is alright? I need logs directly from start, so we would be able to see, if connection is alright.
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09:18<WizardNumberNext>pavii, first we need to be able to read drive
09:19<pavii>WizardNumberNext: The hard disk is directly connected (plain SATA - > MB connection ) . The cable I am guessing is fine cause I tried with alternate cable with same results
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09:19<WizardNumberNext>pavii, logs - we need logs, then we would see what is happening with drive
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09:21<falladay>CC
09:22<falladay>HELLO I NEED I HELP
09:22<EmleyMoor>falladay: Just explain your problem
09:22<falladay>OK
09:22-!-rgms [~rgms@212-149-196-171.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: leaving]
09:22<falladay>BEFOR
09:22-!-rgms [~rgms@212-149-196-171.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #debian
09:23<falladay>I HAVE WINDOWS 7
09:23<perlwizard>hmm
09:23<EmleyMoor>!enter
09:23<dpkg>The enter key is not a substitute for punctuation. Hitting enter unnecessarily makes it difficult to follow what you are saying. Consider using ',', '. ', ';', '...', '---', or ':' instead. If you hit enter too often, you will be autokicked by debhelper for flooding the channel.
09:23-!-rgms [~rgms@212-149-196-171.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
09:23<EmleyMoor>Also, please stop SHOUTING
09:23<SynrG>!caps
09:23<dpkg>Don't write words all in capital letters unless they're abbreviations. To emphasize words, put an underscore ("_") on both sides.
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09:23<falladay>ok
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09:23<tornay>aiii
09:23<tornay>aluien
09:23<perlwizard>so after some update with aptitude dist-upgrade, I am getting mount: unknown filesystem type 'cifs' when trying to mount cifs
09:23-!-rgms [~rgms@212-149-196-171.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
09:23<tornay>spanish
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09:24<abrotman>!es
09:24<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
09:24<EmleyMoor>!es
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09:24<falladay>but i have now
09:24<perlwizard>after installing cifs-utils I get mount error: cifs filesystem not supported by the system
09:24<perlwizard>how do I fix it ?
09:24<WizardNumberNext>pavii, like this one: http://dpaste.com/733045/ I did remove non-aplicable logs, leaving only SATA related logs
09:24<tornay>hfghfgloyfjdygefnntffhf fgdfygdgwrgwrg vsgnfgftdfsf gnerfguwegrg reg rge wg ge terg g rg fg ewf wg egwe g weg wr wrtg wrgwetweerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrroroooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrroooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaoo
09:24<tornay>oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaa
09:24<falladay>pinguy and i have lost all my data how can i do to get it back
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09:24<movl>!ops tornay
09:24<dpkg>Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, ):, helix, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen: movl complains about: tornay
09:25<tornay>vhwejwehtfgjwergtyhwjyfghbeiy68tygdyusdfsuiyfvjvhnfvjygebfn87ruugegujhrygujrghjwghjughuhgwegjhnwejrgbnerkgjbsndfjgwnegunwhgionhefgjkvbefbsrjg bwr nnb wrt rt g rg sg wrg g we ggrg wr gwrg r gw rg
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09:25<perlwizard>any help?
09:25<abrotman>or he left ..
09:25<movl>he left
09:25<SynrG>perlwizard: which release? which kernel?
09:25<falladay>please help me
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09:25<abrotman>i can see that
09:25<WizardNumberNext>perlwizard, lets start with how did you lost your data. Is it HDD damaged or partition is lost or FileSystem is damaged?
09:25<EmleyMoor>falladay: What happened to the data? When exactly did you lose it?
09:26<abrotman>data where?
09:26<falladay>today
09:26<perlwizard>SynrG 3.2.15-1 amd64
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09:26<WizardNumberNext>abrotman, straight to the point!
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09:26<perlwizard>release is sid
09:26<EmleyMoor>falladay: Was this when you installed whatever it is you have now, or has it happened since?
09:27<abrotman>judd: kernels
09:27<judd>Available kernel versions are: experimental: 3.3.0-trunk-686-pae (3.3.2-1~experimental.1); sid: 3.2.0-2-686-pae (3.2.15-1); wheezy: 3.2.0-2-686-pae (3.2.14-1); squeeze-backports: 3.2.0-0.bpo.2-686-pae (3.2.12-1~bpo60+1); squeeze: 2.6.32-5-686 (2.6.32-41squeeze2); lenny-backports: 2.6.32-bpo.5-686 (2.6.32-35~bpo50+1); lenny: 2.6.26-2-686 (2.6.26-29)
09:27<abrotman>perlwizard: where'd you get that kernel ?
09:27<perlwizard>aptitude
09:27<falladay>since this morning
09:27<perlwizard>and cifs won't mount
09:28<perlwizard>any help ?
09:28<falladay>i have installed
09:28<EmleyMoor>falladay: OK, but when did you install whatever it is you have now?
09:28<falladay>pinguy
09:28<EmleyMoor>!tell falladay about enter
09:28<WizardNumberNext>perlwizard, I would advise you to use debian kernel as they are well tested and they do work
09:29<abrotman>perlwizard: do you have a cifs.ko on your box?
09:29<abrotman>WizardNumberNext: he is .. try reading
09:29<perlwizard>WizardNumberNext I am using debian kernel
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09:29<perlwizard>abrotman 1 sec
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09:29<EmleyMoor>falladay: OK, so you installed this "pinguy" this morning. Is that when you lost the data?
09:29<SynrG>perlwizard: in my kernel logs lately the kernel has been mumbling about upcoming auth changes in 3.3 kernel. dunno if that tidbit is relevant. also, see #debian-next for wheezy/sid support
09:29<WizardNumberNext>abrotman, perlwizard, I never have sean such kernel in main repository
09:30-!-mode/#debian [+l 520] by debhelper
09:30<perlwizard>abrotman I have /lib/modules/3.2.0-2-686-pae/kernel/fs/cifs/cifs.ko
09:30<falladay>today when i have installed pinguy l lose my movies musics and more
09:30<WizardNumberNext>perlwizard, uname -r please
09:30<EmleyMoor>falladay: Just to clarify: Installing caused you to lose the data?
09:31<abrotman>WizardNumberNext: he already told you .. and i agree .. it's a debian kernel .. let it go
09:31<abrotman>jesus
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09:31<abrotman>go read packages.debian.org if you don't believe him or me
09:32<SynrG>WizardNumberNext: what may have confused you is he gave the debian version#, not the version# embedded in the package name
09:32-!-lukasz_gut [~Lukasz@espcolo-webproxy01.nokia.com] has joined #debian
09:32<WizardNumberNext>I did understood it wrong - my bad
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09:33<WizardNumberNext>perlwizard, is this data on CIFS share? Did you tried to mount CIFS manualy?
09:33<perlwizard>I've rebooted that box and now it works
09:33<perlwizard>It probably had not been rebooted since kernel update
09:34<perlwizard>thanks for helping
09:34<WizardNumberNext>perlwizard, so it was only about disagrees in kernel and module version
09:34<perlwizard>yes, apparently so
09:34<abrotman>or userland and kernel ..
09:34<WizardNumberNext>that is why I do dislike stock kernels, they are getting updated and not always it works
09:34<falladay>I had windows 7 and I installed this morning pinguy. my drive was partitioned into two but when I installed pinguy I lost all my data
09:35<pavii>WizardNumberNext: I went into /var/log and did a grep for 'ATA\|sd\|ahci|\scsi' and got some 8k lines .
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09:35<EmleyMoor>falladay: Are you sure it's lost? Could it in fact be on the other partition? Also, pinguy is not Debian
09:35<SynrG>perlwizard: also, i did not paritcularly want to dissuade you from asking here since there were people ready and willing to help, but do be aware we have a thriving support community for wheezy/sid on #debian-next for future queries
09:35<WizardNumberNext>pavii, just paste it and I would read it - I am used to
09:35<SynrG>(see also channel topic)
09:36<Ichabond>WizardNumberNext: but please not in this channel :p
09:36<falladay>I would find my data. how do I do
09:36<pavii>Ichabond: WizardNumberNext ofcourse not in this channel :P
09:36<perlwizard>SynrG I was not aware of that
09:36<WizardNumberNext>Ichabond, we do use paste on dpaste.com
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09:37<EmleyMoor>falladay: Find support for pinguy?
09:38<Ichabond>which is on freenode #pinguyos
09:38<falladay>where
09:38<Ichabond>falladay: irc.freenode.net #pinguyos
09:39<abrotman>WizardNumberNext: paste.debian.net
09:40<WizardNumberNext>pavii, could you paste there ^
09:40<pavii>WizardNumberNext: abrotman http://pavithran.org/devel/logs-pavi.txt paste services have a limit
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09:41<falladay>BUT NOW HOW CAN I DO TO GET MY DATA BACK
09:41<falladay>WHAT SOTFWARE CAN I USE
09:41<abrotman>falladay: are you going to keep shouting?
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09:42<pavii>falladay: in Internet capitals means shouting , please use less of that
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09:44<acm>hi
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09:45<falladay>it affects me a lot I should not have installed the aplication of putian
09:46<falladay>it affects me a lot I should not have installed the fucking aplication
09:46<Ichabond>falladay: irc.freenode.net #pinguyos
09:46<Ichabond>please stop shouting
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09:46<Ichabond>we are also not the supportchannel for that OS
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09:46<gdb>What is putian?
09:46-!-Ner0 [~vsmkl@riservato-181-201.dimnp.unipi.it] has quit []
09:46<Ichabond>putain is french
09:46<pavii>falladay: also ask at forum http://forum.pinguyos.com/
09:46<Ichabond>it's a curseword
09:46<gdb>Oh!
09:47<gdb>haha sorry, I just saw "the aplication of putian" and figured there was something in the archive called that -- apparently there isn't! Carry on then!
09:47<WizardNumberNext>pavii, we need it from booting time (roughly around 2-5 second of uptime), use cat /var/log/messages.1.gz | gzip - | grep 'ahci\|scsi\|ata'
09:47<Ichabond>falladay: si possible, n'employe pas les mots en capitales svp
09:47<pavii>WizardNumberNext: ok will do
09:48<Ichabond>et il faut paler avec le service support du PinguyOS
09:48<Ichabond>nous ne sommes pas PinguyOS
09:48<Ichabond>On ne peut pas vous aider
09:48<WizardNumberNext>pavii, this quite crafted command, as there is no gzcat (there is bzcat), at least in my OS
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09:49<pavii>Ichabond: vous parlez bien francais :)
09:49<pavii>WizardNumberNext: ok
09:50<WizardNumberNext>pavii, add there sd as well
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09:51<pavii>ok , looks likes messages.1 is a file which is not yet compressed and has only 3 lines . checking other files
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09:51<Ichabond>pavii: ca serait grave si je ne parle pas bien le fracais, c'est ma deuxieme langue
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09:51<babilen>!fr
09:51<dpkg>Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debian-fr. Francophone users: for help in french, please go to #debian-fr.
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09:52<Ichabond>babilen: they can't help the guy in -fr either
09:52<babilen>Ichabond: And IIRC it is just your second language, so you might want to prefer to talk in English here.
09:52<gdb>WizardNumberNext: It's zcat, not gzcat :-)
09:52<Ichabond>he needs PinguyOS support, which isnt here
09:52<WizardNumberNext>gdb, thank you for info - I was looking for it for some time already
09:52<gdb>WizardNumberNext: There's also zgrep which you can probably leverage there.
09:52<gdb>WizardNumberNext: No worries!
09:52<Ichabond>babilen: no need to be an ass about it, I was trying to help someone who obviously had a not so good grasp of the english language
09:53<pavii>poor french guy who is a windows user installed pinguy and lost data , we must show some concern
09:53<gdb>WizardNumberNext: (And yes, that gets me every time I want to read a compressed log, as well. I don't know why they start with 'z' rather than "gz".)
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09:53<WizardNumberNext>gdb, I have to memorize it - it would get really very very useful
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09:54<babilen>Ichabond: Sorry - I was clearly missing context (and my non-existant French clearly contributed to misunderstanding you) -- I was merely trying to mention that support in French is offered in #debian-fr
09:54<WizardNumberNext>gdb, do zgrep do work same (or at least similar) as grep?
09:55-!-rfictus [~realus@dhcp-089-098-112-133.chello.nl] has joined #debian
09:55<rfictus>sup guys
09:55<rfictus>n gurlz ;)
09:55<rfictus>is it alrite to do without the zeitgeist package ??
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09:55<gdb>WizardNumberNext: Yes, that's right. "gzip -dc file.gz | grep $foo" is the same as "zgrep $foo file.gz"
09:56<EmleyMoor>rfictus: I'd never even heard of it until now, and I don't have it installed
09:56<gdb>WizardNumberNext: do this $ ls /bin/z* -- lots of commands there that work on gzipped files
09:56<rfictus>EmleyMoor
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09:56<rfictus>EmleyMoor: you should check it out
09:56<WizardNumberNext>gdb, I love it then, it would make many scripts a lot easier to read and more efficient
09:56<rfictus>it is a kind of log
09:56<rfictus>EmleyMoor: kind of log
09:57<rfictus>EmleyMoor: LOG
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09:57<EmleyMoor>rfictus: I doubt it. I am more interested in activity on my partner's Windows box at present!
09:57<pavii>gdb thanks for zgrep , sounds cool
09:57<rfictus>EmleyMoor: parter, does he have a gun ?
09:58<WizardNumberNext>pavii, gdb, it is not just cool - it is simply amazing, I was in need of this for some time already
09:58<rfictus>Can someone tell me something about the zeitgeist package?
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09:59<babilen>,info zeitgeist
09:59<judd>Package zeitgeist (utils, optional) in squeeze/i386: event logging framework. Version: 0.4.0+bzr20100718-1; Size: 3.4k; Installed: 32k; Homepage: http://zeitgeist-project.com/
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09:59<babilen>rfictus: ^^^
09:59<Ichabond>rfictus: it's mostly used by desktop search engines
10:00-!-mode/#debian [+l 528] by debhelper
10:00<pavii>WizardNumberNext: cant find anything new in logs
10:00<WizardNumberNext>pavii, we do not look for new stuff - we look for detection
10:00<rfictus>Ichabond: could you provide me a source plz?
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10:01<WizardNumberNext>pavii, maybe it is not best way, but just disconnect drive and connect it back, then we would see detection
10:01-!-casper__ [~casper@dhcp-24-137.ripemtg.ripe.net] has quit []
10:01<pavii>WizardNumberNext: hard removal ? is it safe ?
10:01<pavii>its a internal sata disk
10:02<WizardNumberNext>pavii, just SATA cable, and yes it safe - SATA do support hotplug and it works like gold
10:02<Ichabond>rfictus: http://wiki.zeitgeist-project.com/Getting_Started
10:02<Ichabond>^^ is a good start
10:02<pavii>wow cool .
10:03<WizardNumberNext>pavii, actually not SATA, but AHCI SATA "controller" (SATA on motherboard is not controller, but it is bridge - Host Bus Adaptor)
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10:04<Ichabond>Synapse is something cool that uses the Zeitgeist engine
10:04<rfictus>Ichabond: yes I know this one, thx for the effort
10:04<Ichabond>http://mhr3.blogspot.com/2010/11/introducing-synapse-acetylcholine.html
10:04<pavii>WizardNumberNext: strange no reaction from dmesg !
10:04<Ichabond>I hope it helped :)
10:05<rfictus>Ichabond: do you think this package is necessary or exploitful ??
10:05<WizardNumberNext>pavii, actually modern computer do support more HOTPLUG and HOTSWAP, then most people do think. AHCI do support HOTSWAP, PCI-e support HOTPLUG and they are required to do so by standard
10:05<rfictus>Ichabond: aka risky ?
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10:05<Ichabond>I doubt it
10:05<Ichabond>if someone has access to zeitgeist, he has access to pretty much anything else
10:05<rfictus>Ichabond: right
10:05<Ichabond>since it has no internet facing interfaces
10:06<rfictus>Ichabond: indeed, I thought the same
10:06<Ichabond>hell, it's just a genius logging engine
10:06<WizardNumberNext>pavii, take off both data cable and power plug, connect power, then when it would spin (up to 25 seconds) put data cable in
10:06<rfictus>Ichabond: no open ports etc
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10:06<rfictus>Ichabond: indeed
10:06<Ichabond>=> unlikely it can be exploited in any meaningful way, beside maybe obscure results, or return something else for a query
10:06<Ichabond>nothing meaningful
10:06<WizardNumberNext>pavii, you should get response, even with completely bad drive, after such trick
10:07<rfictus>Ichabond: but the question is, what would be forfeited without it ??
10:07<rfictus>Ichabond: indeed
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10:07<Ichabond>Well, if you're running Ubuntu with Unity, you lose the launcher functionality
10:07<Ichabond>Zeitgeist is a backend, so in itself it is fairly useless
10:07<Ichabond>you need a frontend to use it
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10:08<Ichabond>and if you unsinstall it, you lose the functionality that depends on zeitgeist
10:08<pavii>WizardNumberNext: ok trying with power
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10:08<WizardNumberNext>pavii, SATA is designed with HOTSWAP in mind - connectors are made that way, that drive first know it is getting connected, before it is able to spin platters, same applies to data cable
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10:09<rfictus>Ichabond: indeed, I believe you speak in a precise sense
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10:10<rfictus>Ichabond: many packages tend to install others to be able to function without asking permission
10:10<rfictus>Ichabond: have noticed
10:11<gdb>rfictus: apt-get and aptitude will not install packages to fulfill dependencies without asking for your explicit permission.
10:11<gdb>"The following NEW packages will be installed:
10:12<gdb>and then you have to hit 'y' and enter
10:12<rfictus>gdb: thank you
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10:12<rfictus>gdb: most of my packages and their depndencies were installed through app gui
10:12<rfictus>so best to avoid that
10:12<gdb>rfictus: That said, if there are no dependencies, it will not prompt you again after running apt-get / aptitude and hitting enter, it will just install the single package, assuming that the command itself is your permission
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10:13<gdb>(And frankly, that behavior irritates the hell out of me, and there's no way to change it that I've been able to determine.)
10:13<movl>gdb: change the source code
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10:13<rfictus>gdb :D
10:13<gdb>It's easy to turn off the confirmation prompt, there's no way to force it to give it to you for every invocation of the command.
10:13<movl>should be pretty easy
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10:14<gdb>movl: While that's likely quite true, I'm not really wanting to maintain a fork of apt to get to force a single prompt. ;-)
10:14<WizardNumberNext>pavii, in my case it looks like that: http://paste.debian.net/163529/
10:15<gdb>s/to get //
10:15<movl>gdb: no need to, just talk to the developers
10:15<rfictus>on the other hand, it's useful it asks to install dependencies to be able to function, but would not be better to know who developed the app etc and gave it command to install dependencies ??
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10:15<gdb>rfictus: How do you mean?
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10:16<gdb>movl: You know, while I'm sure that the maintainers welcome collaborative input in terms of feature requests, I've never felt overcome the fear of imposing.
10:16<gdb>I've never overcome the* - need more coffee
10:18<pavii>WizardNumberNext: I am surprised not even a reaction from dmesg while plugging in plugging out . yes I understand your logs . lemme reboot and see
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10:18<WizardNumberNext>pavii, no reboot is needed, it is drive thing
10:18<rfictus>gdb: well, you wouldn't want to install a package with nasty dependencies by the wrong ppl?
10:18<rfictus>know what mean?
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10:19<rfictus>gdb: but packages from apt-get and aptitude are screened in some way or another right ?
10:19<WizardNumberNext>pavii, try power plug (alone), till you would get answer. It could be up to data cable as well, if power plug won't do anything, then try swapping datacable
10:19<rfictus>before they are permitted for download
10:19<rfictus>?
10:20<pavii>ok
10:20<gdb>rfictus: I do, but in the context of the official Debian repositories, that's not an issue. You can see who packages everything (apt-cache show $package, look at the Maintainer line and the dependencies list). Everything that's installed as a dependency is *required* for the package to even run.
10:20<gdb>rfictus: you can use apt-cache depends to show what dependencies a package has, as well
10:20<rfictus>gdb: thank you. *tingling feeling*
10:20<gdb>rfictus: :-)
10:21<rfictus>I was dreaming the other day
10:21<gdb>rfictus: Also keep in mind that when you install a package from a 3rd party repository, in general, the dependencies will come right out Debian main. For example, you want to install a game that requires libfoo (made up). The game will be downloaded from the 3rd party site, while apt will download the libfoo dependency from Debian's archive.
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10:22<rfictus>one single line fo code that can wipe all global unix based hard drives :p
10:22<rfictus>i wuz like dewwwwd
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10:23<WizardNumberNext>pavii, can you hear drive, how do it behave? Is it one single spin and it stays? Is ii makeing excessive clicking? There should spin, small delay, big click and small very fast click for like second, then it should go quiet and keep platter spinning
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10:24<WizardNumberNext>pavii, s/click/clicks
10:24<rfictus>also the sudo package is a little risky in my opinion, because the pass is shorter than root in most cases
10:25<pavii>WizardNumberNext: the sound seems fine , I better take it to a technician or buy a new cable or do something else . Thanks a lot
10:25<rfictus>in any case, a bit skeptical of it
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10:27<gdb>rfictus: I don't think that's true. The password for any user account is up to the user (and root is just a user account like any other -- the 'specialness' of root isn't the name, it's the UID).
10:27<WizardNumberNext>pavii, HDD is most technically advanced part of whole computer, be sure where you take it to diagnoze it - HDD cannot be opened out of dust-free environment. One particle of dust could kill it in few days to seweral months. Any way it seems to be broken already, if you want just to get your data - there are some magician, who know to do it, but after that drive is fit only for rubbish bin
10:28<gdb>If you change your own user account's UID to 0, that account becomes a superuser. If you change root's UID to something other than user, that account becomes a regular user (but you'll break a lot of things that aren't coded quite right).
10:28<gdb>(You'd have to change the GID, as well.)
10:28<rfictus>gdb: true, but with sudo, intruder has root privileges. And considering sudo pw is usually shorter, get ??
10:28<pavii>ohh ok
10:28<movl>rfictus: that's not sudo's fault, but the iuser's
10:28<movl>*user's
10:28<WizardNumberNext>pavii, it just depend on what do you plan for drive. If more valuable is your data or drive
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10:29<gdb>rfictus: The sudo password is not usually shorter unless you're the one making it shorter. The system doesn't determine that. I don't think sudo is inherently more secure, it's just good practice mainly for logging reasons. It's not as useful on a single-admin system.
10:29<gdb>That said, I do use sudo for everything myself.
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10:29<pavii>care about both but the data is high priority .
10:29<gdb>Except in more complex commands where sudo doesn't work well due to shell piping.
10:30<gdb>What movl said.
10:30<gdb>heh
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10:30<rfictus>thx y'all
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10:30<WizardNumberNext>pavii, then it worth to resurect data and try to send it for RMA after resurecting data (if it would be still possible).
10:31<pavii>Wouldnt warranty be void after resurrecting the data?
10:31<pavii>Anyways I guess its too off topic for #debian .
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10:32<WizardNumberNext>pavii, depends. If drive would be opened in any way, that technicians would be able to detect it, then yes - warranty would be void. If it won't be opened at all, or it would be in protective environment with proper certificate, then it depends on producer decision.
10:33<WizardNumberNext>pavii, right, lets finish offtopic
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10:39<saulo>hello! I have 2 Apache VirtualHosts running the same SSL file (for tests only) in 2 different ports. When I activate the SSL, for both VirtualHosts PHP save the same session files and, since both run with different users (using itk module instead prefork), if I run one, the other receives a permission error, like this: open(/var/lib/php5/sess_likukr84qpdu2rt81dj6ap18c6, O_RDWR) failed:...
10:39<saulo>...Permission denied (13) Already checked, the session file is saved with the permissions of the first user, but boh should be different session files, not the same. What's the problem?
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10:42<saulotoledo>*both
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10:46<saulotoledo>All I found about this problem was this link http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=886064
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10:53<SynrG>saulotoledo: so, do you have an ubuntu system or debian?
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10:55<saulotoledo>SynrG: Debian Squeeze
10:56<saulotoledo>SynrG: I'm thinking about change the php_flag to session directory at Apache VirtualHost, this is a good idea?
10:56<ayaka>could i know which file stored contain which sectoers or the sectoer stored data belongs to which file
10:57<SynrG>honestly, i have no idea how php5 manages sessions
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10:57<xompyes>moritaaaaa: why are you pm'ing me? read the topic
10:57<SynrG>so you would be better off getting help from someone with at least passing familiarity with this problem domain. sorry
10:58<saulotoledo>SynrG: no problem, thanks anyway :)
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11:15<s01ja>greetings. can someone hint me a way how to install a software that requires recent libqt4 (eg 4.8) on a lenny?
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11:18<xompyes>s01ja: check if libqt4 is in backports
11:19<movl>lenny-backports? less likely
11:19<xompyes>s01ja: i'd recommend upgrading to squeeze if possible tho, since lenny is not maintained anymore
11:20<movl>that too
11:20<xompyes>movl: i doubt it too
11:20<s01ja>i'd also like a upgrade, but the customer wont...
11:20<xompyes>ah
11:21<xompyes>they do realize there's no more security patches for lenny, right?
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11:22<mbw290>I am using the Nvidia 8600GT in Debian squeeze and my hdmi isn't working when I press Function CRT/LCD
11:22<mbw290>any ideas?
11:22<mbw290>on a Dell XPS M1530
11:22<s01ja>right... not even my customers. got to roll a package for lenny, software runs nice on squeeze
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11:23<xompyes>s01ja: yeah, that's what it's going to come down to-- handrolling the package, and its deps
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11:24<backbox>elloo all
11:25<s01ja>xompyes: but handrolling libqt4(8) will break all software that depends on libqt4(4)
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11:25<xompyes>s01ja: true
11:26<movl>so convince your customers that it's in their best interest to upgrade to squeeze
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11:26<backbox>[ask] : what command must using to scan wifi
11:26<xompyes>perhaps compile the package against libqt4(4) and hope it'll work, but at least you won't break the rest of the system?
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11:27<s01ja>so building&installing qt to usr/lib/$mysw/qt4 and fixing ld-library-path is the way to go
11:27<xompyes>or what movl said... which is the best option in the long run anyway
11:28<movl>doing hacks like that are skating on thin ice
11:28<xompyes>no no, find the source of whatever it is that you're installing that depends on libqt4
11:28<s01ja>i will make my time estimate very high for this, suggesting it would be much easier on squeeze
11:28<xompyes>and compile it against the current libqt4 that's installed on the system
11:28<xompyes>and hope it works
11:28<xompyes>yeah, i'd do that
11:28<s01ja>yea it works, but it has minor bugs
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11:28<s01ja>bugs fixed with a higher qt-version
11:28<xompyes>if common sense won't kick them in the butt to upgrade, money prolly will ;)
11:29<s01ja>hope so
11:29<s01ja>too
11:29<xompyes>either way, good luck, man
11:29<s01ja>thanks for your prompt responses!
11:29<movl>aye
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11:34<andresvia>Hi.
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12:51<prema>hi all
12:51<prema>i got a weird prob in debian, my sound system start giving some lonnngg beep whenever i resume from hibernate
12:52<prema>the only thing i can do is i ve to restart the machine to get it working
12:52<WizardNumberNext>prema, do you use pulseaudio?
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12:53<prema>no.. WizardNumberNext its only gnome-volume-manager with alsa
12:55<prema>my syslog entries shows something related to "Disabling IRQ16"..here is the pastebin http://pastebin.com/vF977VQg
12:55<WizardNumberNext>prema, are you sure, did you changed it by yourself, just plain alsa on modern hardware can do only one stream
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12:56<prema>WizardNumberNext, i never changed anything.,just installed a fresh squeeze, put it to hibernate.,resumed and played a video
12:57<prema>thats it .. its gives some abnormal sound whenever i pause the video..it is becoming normal only if i force reload the alsa or restart the machine
12:57<WizardNumberNext>prema, so you are using pulseaudio. But any way - do your sound go through HDMI or not?
12:57-!-erol [~erol@mar92-19-78-248-89-121.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:57<prema>not sure WizardNumberNext its only analog i guess
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12:58<abrotman>prema: does the sound happen during any other ACPI events?
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12:58<WizardNumberNext>prema, then IRQ16 would have nothing to do with that, as your sound card is on IRQ16
12:59<prema>abrotman, it happens this way only when i resume from a hibernate
12:59<prema>even if there s a notification window appears with a beep.,that beep just continues till i force restart the system
12:59<WizardNumberNext>prema, I think this could be the source of problem: hda-intel: azx_get_response timeout, switching to polling mode: last cmd=0x001f1500
12:59<abrotman>prema: a) your BPO kernel is out of date b) maybe try unloading sound modules before you hibernate
12:59<abrotman>prema: but i'd solve a) first
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13:00<prema>abrotman, so which kernel i can go with now?
13:00<prema>WizardNumberNext, then wat can be the fix
13:00<abrotman>prema: aptitude -t squeeze-backports install linux-image-686-pae
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13:01<prema>i googled many have faced similar probs and boting with irqpoll doesnt work
13:01<WizardNumberNext>prema, 3.2.0 - this one is very recent kernel and there is a lot of bug fixes for HDA-intel
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13:02<prema>WizardNumberNext, i will try that also..but will there be any possibilities or patches for this kernel?
13:03<WizardNumberNext>prema, try this: add options snd-hda_intel enable_msi=1
13:03<abrotman>prema:for that one? no ..
13:03<abrotman>prema: not the one you currently have
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13:04<prema>WizardNumberNext, where to add this
13:04<WizardNumberNext>to /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base.conf
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13:04<WizardNumberNext>abrotman, why not - I never had any issue with sound while I am using that one
13:04<abrotman>i'd not do that til they get the new kernel
13:04<prema>abrotman, but this kind of thing is not occuring in my other laptop
13:04<abrotman>prema: identical laptop ?
13:04<abrotman>WizardNumberNext: what? wtf are you talking about?
13:04<prema>abrotman, no different only..
13:05<abrotman>what?
13:05<prema>abrotman, i said like.,this kernel is comfortable in other laptops
13:05<WizardNumberNext>abrotman, Message Signalled Interrupt - this is what I am talking about
13:05<abrotman>prema: but do the other laptops have identical hardware and cofnfigurations
13:05<abrotman>WizardNumberNext: i'm almost done talking to you .. it's not a fruitful endeavor
13:06<prema>abrotman, mm i dont think so
13:06<abrotman>prema: different hardware will react differently to the same kernel .. even if one wworks perfectly fine, a different set of hardware may be completely unreliable
13:06<prema>anyway i will chk with this new kernel
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13:21<ratnick>whet does:(firefox-bin:3105): Gdk-WARNING **: XID collision, trouble ahead mean?
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13:22<sney>ratnick, ask a firefox dev channel, but it's meaningless for a user.
13:23<ratnick>ok, so not a debian issue?
13:23<nsadmin>also google the constant part of the message
13:23<nsadmin>jest throw it in thar
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13:24<nsadmin>the message doesn't say whether it is or is not
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13:28<canaima>saludos
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13:36<Lokillo>Holaaa
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13:46<Youri>Hi all
13:47-!-aranax [~aranax@190.56.140.209] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
13:48<Youri>I have a little (big) problem. "df" tells me that /dev/md1 is 75% (7/10Go) used but "du" show me a total of only 2,5Go. Someone has an idea ?
13:49<movl>7,5+2,5=?
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13:51<Youri>movl: "du" => 2,5 used
13:52<Youri>o_O after an update / upgrade => df shows good values, strange
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14:30<kilelme>what best tool to check modem signal?
14:30<abrotman>a dialer
14:30<abrotman>what are you really trying to check ? signal/noise?
14:31<kilelme>streght of signal? because i can't define if that hspda or hspa
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14:31<kilelme>abrotman: i use wvdial
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14:35<morn>пиу пиу
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15:08<Chanadeler>Hy everybody
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17:03<jgalt>need a quick way to backup /home while I reinstall. looking for the right incantation for this.
17:04<OpenTokix>jgalt: if its a separate partition, just dont format it?
17:05<sney>yeah, or just tar it up onto some exterior storage device
17:05-!-magnetic_ [~magnetic@239.Red-88-15-203.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:05<sney>(obligatory "you don't already back up /home ?")
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17:06<fabio_>hi guys! does anyone knows how to enable multitouch synaptics notebook mouse?
17:07<sney>!synaptics
17:07<dpkg>Synaptics is an X.org driver for laptop touchpads. Install the xserver-xorg-input-synaptics package and "man synaptics" for driver options; configuration tools include synclient and gpointing-device-settings. Not working? -> "modprobe -r psmouse ; modprobe psmouse". http://wiki.debian.org/SynapticsTouchpad . See also <clickpad>, <trackpoint>.
17:07<fabio_>im using xfce and slim
17:07<jgalt>not a sepreate partition :(
17:07<sney>fabio_, read the wiki link dpkg just gave
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17:10-!-mode/#debian [+l 513] by debhelper
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17:12<canaima_>alguien que me ayude tengo una canaima y no me deja utilizar el buscador de google
17:12-!-zlatan [~zlatan@adsl-165-138-243.teol.net] has joined #debian
17:12<sney>!es
17:12<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
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17:13<sney>jgalt, just use tar. that's what it's for.
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17:15<MickLH>What do you guys usually use for audio production?
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17:19<jgalt>sney: should 'tar cvfj OldHomeDirs.bz2 /home' catch everything?
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17:20<sney>jgalt, well, the f option has to come right before the filename, and tar might complain if you don't do *.tar.bz2 instead of just *bz2, and v will fill your screen for no reason
17:20<sney>and doing bz2 compression on the fly will make it take a long time
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17:20<sney>jgalt, but otherwise yes
17:21*scientes recommends J instead of j
17:21<scientes>cause bz2 sucks
17:21<scientes>oh yeah that command you have wont work for the reasons sney says, esp that f isn't last
17:21<MickLH>or z because it works every-damn-where
17:21<MickLH>and its gonna take forever anyways
17:22<sney>well if you're backing something up to later extract yourself the compression type doesn't really matter, but I wouldn't compress it at all unless I was seriously strapped for space
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17:22<sney>and even then, stuff like video files and binary downloads won't compress much at all anyway
17:22<scientes>actually gzip compression will probably speed things up
17:22<scientes>if its compressable at all
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17:24*scientes wishes he had back all the time he has waited for bzip2 archives to slowly decompress
17:24<MickLH>I just say it because I was once stuck in a situation where I had to transplant a bunzip2 from a corrupted hard drive to get wifi firmware
17:24<scientes>either xz or gz, but never bzip2
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17:25<s_i_m>scientes, well, bz2 is too widespread to ignore it
17:25<scientes>s_i_m, doesn't change the fact that its decompression is unbearably slow
17:26<s_i_m>btw, hi everyone =)
17:26<s_i_m>yes, it is slow
17:26<scientes>and that xz compressed better and has much faster decompression
17:26-!-Alex14 [~Brigada_A@190.204.103.109] has joined #debian
17:26<s_i_m>scientes, there is no such thing as an ultimate compressor
17:26<scientes>of course
17:27-!-artista_frustrado [~fernando@200.247.43.2] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:27<s_i_m>(besides /dev/null ;) )
17:27<scientes>well, one that can compress random data :P
17:27<jgalt>sney: 'tar cvEf OldHomeDirs.tar /home/' ought catch everything then correct?
17:27<scientes>but IMHO bzip2 sucks and xz and gzip are the ones you should consider, depending on how many times it will be decompressed
17:28<scientes>wtf does -E do?
17:28-!-Alex14 [~Brigada_A@190.204.103.109] has quit []
17:28<sney>I couldn't find it in tar --help
17:28<jgalt>Scientes: extended headers
17:29<jgalt>it's in the man page
17:29<scientes>jgalt, not in my man page
17:29<sney>jgalt, yes, it should catch everything, the E is unnecessary but if you feel like using it
17:29<scientes>(of course debian writes their own, cause they dont like GFDL+invariant)
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17:30<sney>tar: invalid option -- 'E'
17:30<sney>jgalt, what debian version is this anyway
17:30-!-wd40s [~wd40s@205.178.35.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:31<jgalt>ah, ok "tar cvf OldHomeDirs.tar /home/" then
17:31<sney>yes
17:31<jgalt>installing wheezy but found the manpage online
17:32-!-DebianLover [~mo@095-096-172-237.static.chello.nl] has left #debian []
17:32<s_i_m>jgalt, making a backup before installing?
17:32<jgalt>sec gonna start this 150GB to go
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17:33<s_i_m>always a good idea, anyway
17:33<jgalt>s_i_m: yes, went to upgrade to testing and the power failed. reinstalling as it's sorta time to get a clean install anyway.
17:34<jgalt>btw, what file(s) do I need to preserve so I know what packages I had installed?
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17:34<s_i_m>btw, is there any official info on support of separate partitions for /usr/, /var/, etc, in Debian wheezy and past-wheezy (whatever it will be called)?
17:35<MickLH>seperate the tar from the gzip and put pv in between
17:35<s_i_m>is this going to be dropped at some point?
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17:37<scientes>s_i_m, dont use a seperate /usr
17:37<scientes>but /usr on the / partition
17:37<s_i_m>i remember some heated-up discussions in the past on debian-devel ml, but was there any conclusion?
17:37-!-brando753 [~brandon@ip-208-77-61-72.saddlebackcomm.net] has joined #debian
17:38*scientes supports the /usr move
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17:39<s_i_m>oops
17:39<s_i_m> /usr as a symlink to / ?
17:40<scientes>actually fedora and solaris do it as /bin-?/usr/bin and /sbin->/usr/sbin
17:40-!-kaziem [~devnull@27.120.216.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
17:40<scientes>same with /lib and /lib64
17:40-!-keystreams [~keystream@S0106b8c75dcc6bcf.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #debian
17:40<scientes>which means that /usr is ro mountable
17:40<s_i_m>well, well. Pandora box opened
17:40<scientes>with /usr as a symlink to / you introduce too many top-level directories apparently
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17:49<s_i_m>as soon as /lib and /usr/lib and /bin and /usr/bin get mixed officially we will loose the last level of defense against library blobs poisoning system utilities...
17:50<s_i_m>that de-facto happened already
17:50<scientes>s_i_m, ummmm? not really
17:50<scientes>if you are running debian, try vrms (virtual richard m stallman)
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17:51<s_i_m>scientes, I do not mean closed source blobs
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17:51<s_i_m>there are a plenty of open source ones
17:52<scientes>oh, i see aht you mean, war against complexity
17:52<scientes>well thats already broken
17:52<scientes>cause udev will call all sorts of stuff
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17:57<KindOne>having some trouble, it seems Debian will not let me add a VPN in the "Networks Connections"
17:58-!-roughnecks [~irc@cl-1124.trn-01.it.sixxs.net] has joined #debian
17:58<fabio_>hi, im having problems with facebook on chromium
17:58<fabio_>http://s17.postimage.org/oavxquy7y/Screenshot_170412_22_57_17.jpg
17:58-!-KindOne [~KindOne@h186.173.17.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit []
17:59<fabio_>not loads completly
17:59<fabio_>does anyone had this problem?
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18:00<fabio_>on other browsers i dont have problem
18:00<fabio_>only in chromium
18:01<scientes>fabio_, irc://irc.freenode.net/chromium
18:02<fabio_>scientes, ty
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18:05<fabio_>how to install .deb on terminal?
18:05-!-mike_ [~mike@dsl-217-155-233-6.zen.co.uk] has joined #debian
18:06<fabio_>ive tryed dpkg -i
18:06-!-qt-x [~qt-x@188.24.112.211] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:06<fabio_>but gives me an error with dependences
18:06<s_i_m>fabio_, than install dependences first.
18:06-!-Ch3ss [~chut@22.151.98.84.rev.sfr.net] has joined #debian
18:06<s_i_m>then*
18:06<fabio_>any flag to try install that dependences automatic?
18:06<MickLH>apt-get install -f
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18:07<MickLH>not sure if thats what you need
18:07<fabio_>MickLH, i have an .deb
18:07<fabio_>package
18:07<MickLH>but thats what my friend needed last night when he "broke" his package manager that way
18:07<scientes>fabio_, apt-get -f intall will fix the dependancies stuff
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18:10<MickLH>is there anything better than LMMS?
18:10<s_i_m>sex?
18:10<MickLH>how am I supposed to achieve that without impressive bass-drops?
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18:13<MickLH>I have to resort to wine to make my studio work nice
18:13<MickLH>I have hopes for bitwig
18:14<MickLH>But it's the only light I can see for miles, and I'm not too sure it is anything more than vaporware
18:14<MickLH>I should just write the tool I want, but I have too much shit on my plate already
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18:17<canaima>hola
18:17<canaima>como estan
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18:23<MickLH>I gotta bust out the 303
18:23<MickLH>I'm feeling funky as hell
18:23<MickLH>peace
18:24<haylo>thank you- i realize how dumb i sound when i use urbanized slang now
18:25<sney>haha
18:25<haylo>i am getting older and this stuff is important for me to learn
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18:26<s_i_m>well, in some languages I speak your nick, haylo, sounds very.... hm... slangy ;)
18:27<s_i_m>but that was probably not intended
18:28<haylo>wow i am glad i only have to judge peoples stupidity with one language- im sorry s_i_m
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18:29<s_i_m>haylo, no prob at all
18:30-!-mode/#debian [+l 498] by debhelper
18:31<haylo>haha yeah haylo is well sort of risque sounding - maybe i need a new adult nickname
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18:33-!-FryLock is now known as ChefRa
18:34*vikingo is away: buenas nochas!!
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18:37<ChefRa>pretty bad that frylock and chefra are the only adults i could think of
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19:36-!-javier [~canaima@201.242.113.46] has joined #debian
19:36<javier>hola
19:36<javier>a todo
19:36<javier>lo de la canaima portatile
19:37-!-mesutcan [~mesutcan@78.178.159.169] has joined #debian
19:37<javier>hola
19:37<javier>esutcan
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19:39<javier>hola
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19:58<javier>hola
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19:58<devil>!es
19:58<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
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20:15<scientes>http://glandium.org/blog/?p=2320
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20:17<mizzle>hello all
20:17-!-azrael1 [~azrael@89-160-158-144.du.xdsl.is] has joined #debian
20:17<sney>hi
20:17<scientes>http://glandium.org/blog/?p=2289
20:17<scientes>thats the one i meant to post
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20:50<FelipeAbella>hi, i just created an ad-hoc connection using network-manager. "iwconfig" says everything is ok, but another device can't see the network. dmesg and syslog doesn't show any problem, any other log file i should look?
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20:53<scientes>redhat has the logrotate use dates instead of 1,2,3 i think this is a better default
20:53-!-DrGkill [~DrGkill@92.103.115.30] has joined #debian
20:53<scientes>with 1,2,3 you have to rename every old log each time you rotate
20:54-!-ukine [~ukine@72.184.238.236] has joined #debian
20:54<scientes>well i guess systemd-journald is shaking this up already...
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21:00-!-mode/#debian [+l 486] by debhelper
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21:03-!-Guest724 [~info@ppp-150-158.26-151.libero.it] has joined #debian
21:03<Guest724>Ciao a tutti..
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21:05-!-ens^123881f^ [~info@ppp-150-158.26-151.libero.it] has joined #debian
21:05<ens^123881f^>Ciao a tutti :)
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21:08<dvs>hi y'all
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21:19<MD_DuDu>oi
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21:21<jwayne>sup
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21:37<carmelo>heyy
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21:39<carmelo>hello
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21:59<geek_>hi
22:00-!-Alverid [~none@186.115.35.27] has quit []
22:00<geek_>d/l deb. 6.04 dvd 64bit going from crunchbang to straight deb. easier or no
22:00<geek_>ty....
22:00<geek_><---new
22:00<geek_>started with kubuntu. now deb user
22:01-!-Blacker47 [~Blacker47@p57A905CC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
22:01-!-tagz [~tagz@cpe-184-153-196-187.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
22:02-!-geek_ is now known as new2linux4now
22:02<new2linux4now>whoa
22:02-!-azrael1 [~azrael@89-160-158-144.du.xdsl.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:02<tagz>yo
22:02<new2linux4now>sorry
22:03<new2linux4now>not use 2 this
22:03<tagz>me neither bro
22:03<tagz>just fucking about
22:03<new2linux4now>yo hey what you use?
22:03<new2linux4now>6.04
22:03<tagz>tired of other chat servers
22:04<new2linux4now>here that
22:04-!-rgms [~rgms@212-149-196-171.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #debian
22:04<tagz>on old achool cb
22:04<new2linux4now>cbang
22:04<sney>new2linux4now, dunno about how easy it is to switch from crunchbang, I've been using debian since 2001 so I've never tried. but it should be painless as long as you don't have any weird hardware
22:04<new2linux4now>ok cool
22:04-!-Umarov666 [~umarov@114.79.17.78] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:05<new2linux4now>ty
22:05<new2linux4now>!list
22:05<dpkg>new2linux4now: È possibile di scaricare un sacco di software libero puntando il tuo browser a http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/multi-arch/iso-cd/debian-6.0.4-amd64-i386-netinst.iso !
22:05<tagz>been using this os for a while now i like it though
22:06-!-azrael1 [~azrael@89-160-158-144.du.xdsl.is] has joined #debian
22:06-!-rgms_ [~rgms@212-149-216-234.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:06<new2linux4now>im using cbang 64 right now
22:06-!-Se-bash [~seba@host157.190-137-105.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:06<tagz>how'ed you make that show i never used x-chat
22:07<tagz>is there a list of cammands?
22:07<tagz>*commands
22:07<sney>if you hit 'f1' in xchat it loads the manual
22:08<new2linux4now>i dunno ask bot
22:08-!-Se-bash [~seba@host157.190-137-105.telecom.net.ar] has joined #debian
22:09<sney>the channel bot is dpkg, you can type '/msg dpkg debian' in your irc client for example
22:09<tagz>might be to wasted to fuck with this chat shit lol
22:10-!-IgosNusantara [~igos@114.79.17.205] has joined #debian
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22:11<tagz>ill mess with this later
22:11<tagz>have a good night
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22:13<new2linux4now>what is debain stock with mozilla or google? browser
22:14-!-gustavo [~gustavo@189-19-25-92.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #debian
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22:14<new2linux4now>this 4.3gb dl
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22:51<hanniballestat>kk
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23:09<mizzle>hello. I'm trying to send mail via postfix using mail at cmdline. Everything works fine with no iptables, but I cannot get mail to send with iptables with rules for port 25 to allow input and output.
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---Logclosed Wed Apr 18 00:00:26 2012