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#debian IRC Logs for 2012-04-30

---Logopened Mon Apr 30 00:00:22 2012
---Daychanged Mon Apr 30 2012
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01:09<sabatino>Hello!
01:09<wo0t99>hi
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01:24<brando753>Guys I hooked up my thermal label printer to a usb to paralle printer adapter to my laptop, it detects usb://Unknown/Printer as the adapter but when I tell it to print it just says processing, it doesnt actually print what can I do?
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01:32<mint>does grub support UEFI
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01:34<ivo888>hi, can somebody tell me why this shaper doesn`t work http://paste.debian.net/166636/
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02:12<provola>ciao a tutti
02:12<provola>!list
02:12<dpkg>provola: È possibile di scaricare un sacco di software libero puntando il tuo browser a http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/multi-arch/iso-cd/debian-6.0.4-amd64-i386-netinst.iso !
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02:24<yhlfh>/、/quit
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02:26<XReaper>^ really?
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02:32<x>hi
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02:38<ivo888>hi, can somebody tell me why this shaper doesn`t work http://paste.debian.net/166636/
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03:00<bones_was_here>oh a red hat system ;)
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03:01<bones_was_here>at a glance that looks like it would work but you'd probably do better asking #Netfilter on freenode ivo888
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03:03<ivo888>slackware is the system :)
03:03<ivo888>10x bones_was_here . i`ll try there
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03:18<ayaka>There are 3 directories,A,B and C.I diff the A between B making patch file e,then how to apply e to C
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03:28<OdyX>ayaka: diff -Naur A/ B/ > p ; cd C/ ; patch -p1 < ../p ?
03:28<ayaka>Odyx thank you i will try
03:29<OdyX>ayaka: that, plus `man patch` and `man diff` :-P
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03:30<ayaka>OdyX i see,thank you
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04:03<salvo3>ciao
04:03<salvo3>!list
04:03<dpkg>salvo3: VATTENE VIA!
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04:48<zeev>hi, my apt-get keeps back and doesn't upgrade 187 packages. 1) Why? 2) how do I force it to upgrade them?
04:50<saep>zeev: have you tried aptitude? it mostly shows how to resolve such issues
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04:51<zeev>no
04:51<zeev>how?
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04:52<gnugr>zeev:"aptitude update && aptitude full-upgrade"
04:52<zeev>thanks
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04:58<zeev>gnugr: http://paste.debian.net/166649/ ?
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04:58<zeev>Remove the following packages: 1) gnome ...? doesn't sound like a good idea?
04:59<zeev>should I agree?
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05:00<gnugr>zeev:please first can you paste your "/etc/apt-sources.list"?
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05:00<gnugr>err. /etc/apt/sources.list
05:01<zeev>one sec.
05:02<zeev>http://paste.debian.net/166650/
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05:03<gnugr>zeev:remove 3 and 4 lines and then do update/upgrade
05:03<zeev>with aptitude?
05:04<gnugr>no, nano /etc/apt/sources.list
05:04<zeev>I mean update...
05:04<zeev>or with apt-get
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05:04<zeev>or it doesn't matter?
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05:05<gnugr>for me best is to use aptitude
05:05<zeev>ok
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05:05<johfel>zeev: instead of removing the lines you can also comment them out (put a # in front).
05:05<zeev>ok
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05:05<themill>zeev: try using "apt-get dist-upgrade" and see if it's better behaved too. I suspect it will just give up though.
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05:06<zeev>why those lines are not ok?
05:07<gnugr>because they are for ubuntu, debian do not use ppa
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05:08<zeev>aptitude full-upgrade says the same (remove gnome...)
05:09<zeev>The following packages will be REMOVED: at-spi gnome-sushi-common libcheese-gtk20 libcheese1 libgd2-noxpm
05:09<zeev>this one with apt-get
05:09<zeev>apt-get dist-upgrade
05:09<zeev>sounds less problematic, right?
05:09<ivo888>hi, can somebody tell me why this shaper doesn`t work http://paste.debian.net/166636/
05:09<themill>please put the full output in a pastebin
05:09<zeev>ok
05:10<zeev>http://paste.debian.net/166651/
05:10<themill>looks fine -- go for it
05:11<zeev>will it bring the system to the state which I would have if I hadn't used ppa?
05:12<gnugr>will upgrade to wheezy with gnome3
05:12<themill>zeev: in this particular case, I suspect the PPA is irrelevant because the packages have minimal dependencies and are mostly data. In general, don't use PPAs with debian... they almost always lead to tears
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05:13<zeev>so what has caused all this if not ppa?
05:13<zeev>I had wheezy with gnome3
05:13<themill>aptitude sometimes gets a little confused with large upgrades
05:14<zeev>I usually do not use aptitude...
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05:16<themill>zeev: most of the time it just deals with situations where apt-get gives up; some of the time it gets confused and has a hissy fit. The bigger and more complicated the upgrade, the worse it seems to do these days.
05:16<zeev>thank you
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05:17<zeev>I hope the system will work again... some of the apps just stopped working...
05:17<johfel>zeev: you said at the beginning that you tried apt-get. How did you call it?
05:17<zeev>apt-get update
05:17<zeev>apt-get upgrade
05:18<zeev>however it kept many packages back
05:18-!-anton [~anton@5353A3C0.cm-6-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #debian
05:18<zeev>without telling the reason
05:19<johfel>zeev: "apt-get upgrade
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05:20<themill>"kept back" is almost always a good sign that you should be using "dist-upgrade" not "upgrade"
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05:21<johfel>zeev: apt-get upgrade is not allowed to remove packages which was needed in your case... dist-upgrade is the solution.
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05:22<zeev>how do I do routine upgrade?
05:22<zeev>dist-upgrade" or "upgrade"
05:22<zeev>?
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05:26<macfreak>I found a security issue in postfix implementation
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05:27<macfreak>I'm using mozilla thunderbird. It's possible to identify myself as another name, surname, email address
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05:29<macfreak>by using social engineering, I can send emails that look like they're sent from my boss, to another worker
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05:29<ansgar>macfreak: You just discovered how emails work.
05:29<macfreak>I tried several different ISP's and they all allow this
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05:30<zeev>macfreak: tsss! don't tell anyone!
05:30<macfreak>it's a big security issue, since imho postfix should check if email address is not just valid, but also from the same domain (at least)
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05:31<macfreak>the reason that I write this is that I just set up a new postfix installation, and approx 1 day later, people are getting emails from the boss, which include spam, how to loose 10 pounds, how to get rich and so on
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05:33<macfreak>when I check body of the email, the original sender is from another domain fx email@example1.com but identifies himself as user@mydomain.com, therefore emails recieved byw workers look like it's coming from the boss
05:33<petemc>macfreak: there are things like spf that try to mitigate that
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05:35<ansgar>petemc: Try and fail IIRC ;)
05:35<macfreak>does this spf record apply to the domain that postfix sits on, or on all domains that it recieves emails from ?
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05:36<macfreak>I have the server setup to accept email sent to: domain1, domain2, domain3, domain4... all 4 domains have mx setup as mailserver.domain5
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05:36<macfreak>so a couple of days ago, I setup SPF on domain5.
05:37<petemc>do you send all mail through domain5?
05:37<macfreak>should I do this on the other domains as well, or would this be enough ?
05:37<macfreak>domain 5 is like top level for communications, so it's easier to setup email clients
05:37<macfreak>I guess....
05:37<petemc>you need a spf record for each domain specifying the hosts it is allowed to send mail from
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05:38<petemc>you can check for the existance of a spf record for incoming mail, dont assume that everyone has one tho
05:39<macfreak>petemc: yes, this could be a problem, emails would be dropped
05:39<macfreak>petemc: legitimate emails
05:39<petemc>such is life
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05:40<macfreak>in my spf record on domain5 I have the following values: v=spf1 mx a ~all
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05:51<macfreak>Maybe I should put in a spf record on domain1: v=spf1 a mx mx:domain5 +all
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05:52<macfreak>domain5 is the mailserver
05:53<macfreak>and domain1 is one of the email domains that the server accepts
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06:01<macfreak>anyone good at spf records ?
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07:10<tYp3->hi
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07:12<Dmitry>yo
07:12<tYp3->i search a script that check the cpuload of a process, i use 'ps -eo pcpu,args|grep process' but every time it display 6.2
07:12<tYp3->htop display a load of the process 4-5 %
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07:13<flukiluke>macfreak: this is one of the reasons that PGP signatures were created. It can prove exactly who a message is from, but everyone must have the nessesary software and public keys.
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07:16<newb>hello all, I have 2 machines, lenny and squeeze, and I want configure php-xdebug in both. My debug is configured, but I'm unable to use it, somebody can help me to debug?
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07:25<BlouBlou>If I install Debian, would it install automatically my nVidia drivers?
07:26<Dmitry>hmm
07:26<Dmitry>as I remember, no
07:26<BlouBlou>But I could install nouveau ones from repos, right?
07:27<devil>yes
07:27<devil>nvidia driver is non-free
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07:27<Dmitry>that's bad
07:27<BlouBlou>nah, I don't want privative drivers
07:28<devil>http://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers
07:29<BlouBlou>devil: Yeah that's what I wanted, thank you. And last question
07:29-!-amphi_ [~amphi@59.95.32.42] has joined #debian
07:29<BlouBlou>Should I use stable or testing Debian?
07:30-!-mode/#debian [+l 515] by debhelper
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07:30<BlouBlou>I'm going to use this for home-work, it's not a server or something like that
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07:31*Dmitry uses stable
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07:32*ayaka suggest stable
07:32<Dmitry>home notebook
07:32<ayaka>if you don't fail in trooble,using stable.if you enjoying solving programs,then use testing
07:33<ayaka>don't want to fail
07:33<devil>BlouBlou: up to you, depends on your knowlwdge and ability to fix breakage
07:33*devil never used stable before
07:34<BlouBlou>newbie here
07:34<ayaka>using stable is the best choice for the newbie who don't want to learn many thing
07:35<Dmitry>yup -_-
07:35<flukiluke>If you are new to Linux/Debian, definitively stable.
07:35<devil>BlouBlou: stick to stable until you know your way arounnd at least dpkg and apt
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07:37<BlouBlou>devil: I've been using Ubuntu since few years, so I decied to move to Debian. So I hope I'll know how to install this without problems :P I'll get stable then, thank you
07:37<devil>BlouBlou: ubuntu does not count much when it comes to maintaining skills :P
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07:43*gdb wonders if people realize that when they insult Ubuntu, they're indirectly insulting Debian.
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07:44*ayaka can't be more agree with gdb
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07:45*mastroquet thinking: unless they know how different Debian and Ub are from each other...
07:45<gdb>It's more correct to say one doesn't care for the "value add" that Ubuntu provides, but the underpinnings -- the "maintenance" part is nearly pure Debian.
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07:46<devil>gdb: sure it is, it's just not promoted much
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07:49<gdb>I'm not going to belabor the point as I'm setting up for work, but it's comments like this "06:37 < devil> BlouBlou: ubuntu does not count much when it comes to maintaining skills :P" that I take exception to. Do note that "Debian is the foundation on which Ubuntu is built" and that there are hundreds of Debian developers (some of whom are in this channel) that work on Ubuntu. While I don't use Ubuntu myself (but did for several years, and do maintain an Ubu
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07:50<devil>gdb: I know all that
07:51<devil>gdb: i am part of a release team for a debian derivative myself and we welcome many former ubuntu users on our forums and irc channels. the concept of cli is mostly unknown. so i will not move away from what i said above
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07:58<gdb>Well, I certainly accept that you speak from a position of experience, but I'd question if Debian actually requires use of a command line any more than Ubuntu does. Anyway, my apologies for singling you out. I do tend to notice comments that strike me as "Ubuntu sucks!" and feel compelled to be a dissenting voice. :-)
07:59<gdb>I'm not saying I care for Ubuntu, but none of my objections to it have anything to do with the underlying Debian engineering. ;-)
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08:01<devil>gdb: i agree that for debian stable you might not need cli, although we all know how handy it is. with testing or sid (my playground) you undoubtedly want to know your way with li
08:01<devil>cli even
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08:01<devil>and btw. we are quite offtopic ;)
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08:02<gdb>I can't live without a terminal. Ubuntu, RHEL, Fedora, Debian, *BSD, etc. The desktop tools evolve to fast to get comfortable with, the config files are comfy. And you're right, so I'll be quiet now. At least on this topic!
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08:17<spacepluk>is it possible to do a safe-upgrade from aptitude's ncurses interface?
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08:48<Guest37>!list
08:48<dpkg>All the lists you ever want are on https://lists.debian.org/ (but if you are on a run for a list of software, try http://packages.debian.org/stable/ )
08:49<Dmitry>All you need is love ;)
08:49<ansgar>Dmitry: No, love does not contain enough caffeine.
08:50<Dmitry>okay
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08:56<simon_>Rats - just added Apache SSI to a virtual host using PHP pages on a site and Apache segfaulted - no errors except for the segfault. Did a simple case of a PHP including just the problem virtual include, and it worked. I smell buffer length problem I think. I googled and the closest I could find was a bug I reported which was due to something else entirely. Any ideas on where to start on debugging this one?
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09:00<gdb>simon_: I can't be any help, but a google for "apache dies with sig11 using php linux" gives almost 19k results. I'm sorry I can't say "this is where to start" but maybe some of these links will be helpful. Most of them seem to be bug tickets.
09:01<MTecknology>Anyone happen to know if it's possible to easily remove the chmod command from openssh-server?
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09:08<gdb>I'm not finding anything, MTecknology.
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09:09<gdb>MTecknology: At least nothing that doesn't involve providing rbash as the login shell which is probably way way overkill for what you want to do.
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09:10<simon_>gdb, I started on binary search of the problem PHP.. Down to the content of a loop, I assume something in the content generated trigger a segfault in mod_include but it all looks very "safe" basically loops over a list of colours in PHP, outputing colour hex codes.
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09:11<simon_>gdb, if I remove the HTML markup and leave the PHP, it works as expected..... so it isn't what I first thought and some failure to isolate my PHP code from related code.... at least not trivial failure of such.
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09:14<gdb> simon_: I wonder (and don't know) if php segfaults, does that cause a segfault in apache? I don't know if apache protects itself from modules that fail or not. I'm guessing it doesn't and that a sig11 is either php dies, causing apache to die, or apache is dying in response to something php is doing (which isn't dying itself).
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09:16<gdb>simon_: Is the loop interrating over a defined (and finite) set of values or is it recursive?
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09:17<gdb>http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6327607/why-does-this-php-function-give-a-segmentation-fault-sigsegv <-- is what leads me to ask this question, which is regarding a recursive function
09:17<MTecknology>gdb: and they never really 'log in' so that wouldn't work anyway. :( thanks for looking :)
09:17<gdb>MTecknology: Well, there is a way to restrict what can be run to a single command -- if they're never logging in, is 1 command all they need?
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09:18<MTecknology>get, cd, put, list; only things they should need
09:18<gdb>MTecknology: You preface the authorized_keys entry with 'command="/the/one/command/they/can/run"' as long as it's non-interactive. This is done on the remote system (the one you're trying to restrict privileges on).
09:19<gdb>ah
09:19<gdb>oh, sftp, not ssh
09:19<gdb>That could change the answer. ;-) I'll dig some more.
09:19<romain>Hi, I'm setting up Postfix (using virtual domains in a db) and I having weird warnings.
09:19<romain>When I reload postfix I get "main.cf: unused parameter" for all my mysql_* parameters
09:19<romain>I can't find why
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09:20<romain>btw is this a good place to ask this ?
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09:22<gdb>MTecknology: http://www.hackinglinuxexposed.com/articles/20030115.html -- may be helpful
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09:22<gdb>MTecknology: old old article, though, not sure if that software is still around or not
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09:23<MTecknology>gdb: I was just thinking I should try something like vsftpd to see if that will work for me
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09:24<MTecknology>except that would make it ftp instead of sftp and the users will get confused having to check a different box
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09:25<gdb>romain: I'm going to guess that your configuration for connecting to mysql is incorrect. For example (not related directly to mysql) http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2012-March/073045.html <-- translating into mysql "if your configuration isn't explicitly using mysql, then any mysql_* parameters will be unused" -- that's my guess anyway, based on what you've said, this google result, and no other information or experience with the issue :-P
09:25<gdb>er :-)
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09:26<gdb>MTecknology: I don't mean to pry, as your question "can I restrict use of chmod" seems pretty self-explanatory on its face, but what are you trying to do?
09:27<gdb>MTecknology: For example, if you are trying to keep people from setting the execute bit on things they upload, can you solve that by having your incoming directory on a filesystem mounted -o,noexec ?
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09:27<gdb>(just brainstorming as I don't know exactly what issue you're trying to solve)
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09:29<gdb>MTecknology: or perhaps a directory ACL: http://www.softpanorama.info/Commercial_linuxes/linux_acl.shtml
09:29<MTecknology>gdb: I'm trying to avoid them changing it so they can download files that they upload. When files are uploaded, they're set to user1:group 070, group is a different group not their own that has full control over the files
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09:30<MTecknology>They have the chmod command, so they can change it to 770 and read the file which is what I don't want
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09:32<romain>gdb: Ok, thanks. Still doing some reseach. I don't know where I'm supposed set mysql as a parametter (can't find anything in the master.cf file)
09:32<MTecknology>no doubt I'm really hitting an edge case here...
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09:34<gdb>MTecknology: How are you getting the files into a group the user isn't a part of? Unix normally doesn't let you "give away" files.
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09:34<MTecknology>setguid bit on the above directory
09:34<gdb>duh
09:34<gdb>lol
09:35<gdb>So you have the sticky group bit and you're forcing a umask in sshd_config or sometime.
09:35<MTecknology>yup
09:36<romain>Ok sorry I meant wrong from de begining, I'm no using mysql parameters but "virtual_*" stuff (which link a mysql query file )
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09:38<gdb>MTecknology: Some guy in this one thread has this really out there idea to share the directory you want files to go into using samba (and only to localhost) and then mounting that where users will actually be uploading files. Then in smb.conf using the force user= and force group= directives.
09:38<gdb>http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-security-4/default-ownership-of-files-and-directories-594815/
09:38<simon_>gdb, very funny. It seems to be only reproducible on some restarts of Apache - argh......
09:38<gdb>The other suggestion he has is, as you've said, to use ftps over vsftpd.
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09:39<MTecknology>gdb: it looks like vsftpd will only do ftps, not sftp ..... grrrr
09:39<nevyn>is there a 'right way' to configure rtc max-freq ? without putting echo 2048 > /sys/class/rtc0/max-frequency in rc.local or writing an init script?
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09:39<simon_>gdb, oops scrub that - PEBCK on the restarting front
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09:41<MTecknology>I wonder if maybe WinSCP (the tool they use) is smart enough to just magically use whatever is available
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09:44<gdb>nevyn: does apt-cache show cpufrequtils look promising, perhaps?
09:44<gdb>I don't see a sysctl setting for it
09:44<gdb>MTecknology: I don't believe it is. I've used it (infrequently) and I think you have to select the protcol for the connection when you define it.
09:45<nevyn>gdb: cpufrequtils isn't the droid i'm looking for.
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09:45<nevyn>maybe I'll file a wishlist against rtirq-init
09:45<rev>nevyn: sysfsutils
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09:45<rev>like sysctl but for /sys
09:46<gdb>Ah, rev's solution sounds like a winner.
09:46<nevyn>rev: nice!
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09:46<nevyn>ok so I still need to write a udev rule to allow group "audio" to rw /dev/rtc0 and /dev/hpet but I think that's ok
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09:48<romain>(about my thing) Ok so apparently postfix warns about unused parameter only since 2.9 (that's why my other server with the same config has no warning it runs 2.7) http://www.postfix.org/announcements/postfix-2.9.0.html
09:48<MTecknology>gdb: :D http://sftpfilecontrol.sourceforge.net/
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09:48<romain>And the parameters I used are simply not in the documentation
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09:50<gdb>MTecknology: Hah! Nice! Too bad there's no solution that doesn't involve patching otherwise standard utilities.
09:51<MTecknology>maybe we should include the patch in our package! :D
09:51<MTecknology>not really practical, though
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09:52<gdb>MTecknology: I think it really is an edge case, because I can't think of a scenerio in which that function would be useful. If the user uploaded the file, they already have a copy of it. So why restrict the download of it? (I admit, you have my curiosity going here!)
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09:52<MTecknology>gdb: I'm nervous, though... the latest patch they have is for 5.4 and squeeze has 5.5
09:53<gdb>If it's to prevent a download "at some future time" then I'd suggest a cron that runs once a minute and chowns the files to some other user.
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09:54<MTecknology>gdb: purty much.... a bunch of users need to be able to use the same login account. I pretty much need to be able to hook into the existing workflow which means continuing to use one user account and we don't want other users grabbing other user uploaded data
09:55<MTecknology>In in ideal situation, there would be a separate user account for each user uploading and permissions would be a piece of cake with a beer
09:55<gdb>MTecknology: And a once a minute cron allows some enterprising young twerp to race the cron and grab the file anyway.
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09:56<MTecknology>yup
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09:56<MTecknology>even once per second wouldn't make me feel cozy
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09:56<MTecknology>especially since this is about is private as data can get....
09:57<gdb>MTecknology: I'd almost suggest moving away from sftp entirely and using a web form to upload files.
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09:57<MTecknology>the existing solution SUCKS, I'm trying to improve on it but my guidelines are that it has to hook perfectly into how they do things now.
09:58<MTecknology>So.... my goal is that the change the server name that they're connecting to and nothing else.
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09:59<gdb>MTecknology: In that case, it almost sounds like this guy's samba idea may be a direction to look in.
10:00<gdb>Not even sure if that would work.
10:00<MTecknology>i don't think it will; this patch might..
10:01<MTecknology>here's the normal use case -> here's the edge -> here's me ->
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10:02<gdb>haha
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10:03<gdb>MTecknology: sounds like a useful feature request then
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10:03<gdb>MTecknology: another one i would have is being able to sftp a file to multiple destinations -- of course the one is to work around braindead network planning
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10:10<rada>Hi
10:10<ribe>hi
10:10<rada>How are you !!
10:10<rada>:)
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10:10<gdb>!hi
10:10<dpkg>hello, gdb
10:11<gdb>!ask
10:11<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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10:18<MTecknology>gdb: there's no openssh-server 5.4 in the mirror... looks like that patch may be end of life :(
10:19<MTecknology>I don't wanna have to try to manually edit the source.... :(
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10:33<Guest45>hello
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10:51<pgimeno>I seem to remember that there is an URL where I can check the recently uploaded packages that are not yet in the main repository, if so where is it?
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10:54<themill>pgimeno: either "incoming" or "new" depending on exactly what you're talking about; you can /msg dpkg incoming; /msg dpkg new
10:54<pgimeno>thanks themill
10:55<abrotman>!inout
10:55<dpkg>To determine packages going in/out of <testing> today, see http://release.debian.org/migration/accepted.html . To see why a package is not in testing, "/msg dpkg why is <foo> not in testing" or see http://release.debian.org/migration/ . For packages coming into unstable, use http://incoming.debian.org/ . For package removals, ask me about <removed>.
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10:56<daemonkeeper>Why is it linking to incoming? I think debian-devel-changes would be better suited.
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10:58<Sillencer>Hi. How is the right way to make a daemon start on system startup, so for example I don't need to write "svnserve -d -r /var/svn/"
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10:59<daemonkeeper>Make a init script (copy and adjust /etc/init.d/skeleton) or just append the command to /etc/rc.local for simple cases.
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10:59<Sillencer>ok, tnx, think init script is a better way to do it
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11:00<pgimeno>thing is, an upstream developer made a new release very recently (Apr 24) and I want to see if the package is already made and uploaded but pending, so is incoming.debian.org the correct place to check?
11:02<daemonkeeper>You're looking for debian-devel-changes or for improved readability the PTS. incoming is not very readable unless you know you're looking for brand-new packages.
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11:02<daemonkeeper>(brand-new as in: not even imported to unstable yet)
11:03<daemonkeeper>Open http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/yourpackage, click on PTS in the right column.
11:03<pgimeno>thanks daemonkeeper
11:03<daemonkeeper>Or use http://packages.qa.debian.org/common/index.html if you know the source package name.
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11:05<pgimeno>thanks, yes I do
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11:09<Salamander>Cuestion: lspci woult identify my network card right?? It reads Realtek 8029 [10e4:8029]. Now, where do I look for the module for this card?
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11:10<daemonkeeper>lspci -vv tells you the kernel module which claims to support it.
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11:16<zerocool>hello
11:16<Salamander>daemonkeeper, woult you mind taking a look at this http://pastebin.com/vDLYszTW
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11:17<MTecknology>gdb: making this patch fit into a different version of openssh is .. hard
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11:17<MTecknology>I'm almost half way through, though
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11:18<daemonkeeper>Salamander: Well, no module grabs your driver. you can try http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/ though.
11:18<zerocool>i want a linux frech chat, where i can find it ? thanks
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11:19<zerocool>french chant scuze
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11:21<benson>does debian dvd's include wl type broadcom wifi driver? and also what is the default flavour included in these dvd's? gnome or xfce?
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11:24<Salamander>neither my network card (Realtek 8029 Network Card) nor my modem (SM56 PCI Modem) seems to be suported. I thing I should not keep trying to connect to the internet with that computer =P
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11:27<gnugr>Salamander:do you have "firmware-realtek" installed?
11:27<Salamander>=0
11:27<Salamander>gnugr, no, should I?
11:27<gnugr>yes
11:28<Salamander>ok, installing it
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11:29<Salamander>The thing is that every instalation should go through pendrive since network card is not working. Hope I can do that and dont mess up dependecies and stuff
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11:31<gdb>MTecknology: Hopefully you won't have to integrate it often. The openssh-server package was last updated for me on October 9th, and that's the date I installed this server. So you should be in the clear. ;-)
11:32<MTecknology>gdb: Even if there is a new release, unless it's security related, I don't intend to update it.... :)
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11:33<gnugr>Salamander:be sure you have "contrib non-free" added in /etc/apt/sources.list
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11:33<MTecknology>actually.... even then, I'll have to carefully investigate how much that security issue affects us. I don't wanna do this again.
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11:34<Salamander>gnugr, how would that help if i dont have internet conection?
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11:34<gnugr>Salamander:ah you didn't mantion that
11:35<gnugr>s/mention
11:35<Salamander>=)
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11:36<gnugr>Salamander:you can't even with cable get connection?
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11:36<Salamander>gnugr, im writing from my laptop, the other pc is in the desktop next to me
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11:37<Salamander>gnugr, I cant even find the module to make the network card work.
11:37<aman>hi
11:37<sney>hmm, didn't you have some pentium 2? in those days, the most common network cards were the 3c59x and the e100
11:37<aman>hii
11:37<sney>hi aman.
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11:38<Salamander>sney, Realtek 8029 Network Card
11:39<gnugr>Salamander:you don't have an eth cable for the PC?
11:39<Salamander>gnugr, yes I do
11:39<Salamander>it is plugged on
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11:40<sney>!ne2k
11:40<dpkg>The NE1000/NE2000 is a line of Ethernet network cards. <ISA> variants are supported by the Linux kernel's ne driver; NE2000 diagnostics and EEPROM setup is available using ne2k-diag (nictools-nopci package), for Plug and Play versions, see also <pnp>. PCI variants are supported by the Linux kernel's ne2k-pci driver, diagnostics and EEPROM setup is available using ne2k-pci-diag (nictools-pci package). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NE2000
11:41<sney>Salamander, it should just work if you modprobe ne2k-pci
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11:42<Salamander>sney, thanx I will try that
11:42<gdb>MTecknology: You can send your work upstream, too. ;-) He may just designate you the new maintainer, though!
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11:43<Salamander>sney, module loaded, now I have to configure eth0 right?
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11:43<sney>right, does your network automatically assign ip addresses? if so you can just run 'dhclient eth0' and see if that gets you connected
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11:45<Salamander>sney, Cannot find device "eth0". I have to do some /etc/network/interfaces configuration or something?? ifconfig eth0 something??
11:46<sney>Salamander, run ifconfig -a and see what interfaces are defined
11:47<Salamander>sney, just lo
11:47<sney>hmm
11:47<gnugr>no network-manager
11:47<sney>gnugr, back off for a bit
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11:48<sney>Salamander, install nictools-pci and run ne2k-pci-diag, you might need to set the nic up somehow
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11:48<Salamander>sney, ok, I will try that
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11:49<MTecknology>gdb: ya... that sounds scary... I'm actually thinking of downloading the openssh 5.4 source just to avoid fighting this (a patch that applies cleanly) Apparently debuild doesn't like me
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11:51<gdb>gnugr: network manager can only manage interfaces that exist -- if the kernel doesn't know of an eth0, network manager isn't going to help. having an eth0 to manage is the point sney is trying to get Salamander to.
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11:58<MTecknology>gdb: so..... I'm thinking I'm going to give up and try to find a different solution, it looks like my umask stuff doesn't work anyway
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11:59<gdb>ug -- you got it built and installed and it doesn't work?
11:59<MTecknology>couldn't get it to build
11:59<MTecknology>not because of the patch, something that I'm not willing to track down
12:00<MTecknology>vsftpd it is!
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12:08<Salamander>sney, after downloading nictools-pci, copy via pendrive, dpkg -i, I get "Unable to find a recognized card in /proc/pci"
12:08<gdb>MTecknology: Is there a way you can keep them from launching WinSCP?
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12:08<gdb>MTecknology: so they can't access its GUI? I ask because WinSCP has a couple of features that may be of interest
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12:08<MTecknology>They have to use it interactively
12:08<gdb>MTecknology: right click context menu for "Send to server" and the ability to monitor a folder and send files dropped into it to a server
12:09<gdb>MTecknology: ah so the target location needs to be selected interactively, it's not always the same drop directory?
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12:09<sney>Salamander, does /proc/pci exist for you?
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12:09<MTecknology>not always
12:10<perlwizard>if neither lspci nor lsusb show a bluetooth device on a laptop, is it safe to say that laptop does not have it ?
12:10<Salamander>sney, no =P
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12:10<sney>Salamander, hmm, I suspect that's a bug.
12:10<MTecknology>I'm thinking that vsftpd _might_ be the way to go if I can get it configured. They'll just have more options to select at first
12:10<gdb>MTecknology: It's a change to the client, but check out #6 on this list: http://www.thegeekstuff.com/2011/06/windows-sftp-scp-clients/ Swish -- it seems to dumb out the ability to change permissions on the remote files (maybe)
12:10<kop>perlwizard: Dunno. But I do know that you sometimes must be root with lsusb.
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12:10<perlwizard>kop both under root
12:10<gdb>MTecknology: vsftpd also requires configuration on the client (unfortunately) not sure how to get around the
12:10<gdb>that*
12:11<MTecknology>I'll just have to deal with that later
12:11<kop>MTecknology: Considered sftp with the fireftp plugin? (I don't know what you're trying to do, but sounds related.)
12:11<MTecknology>more important that people won't be getting around the security measures in place
12:11<sney>Salamander, argh, a 6 year old bug that hasn't been closed. um, got any other network cards lying around? :D
12:11<sney>http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=400433
12:12<MTecknology>kop: it's not, in order to do what I want with openssh-server, I have to patch the source and after doing that, I don't want to be doing that.
12:12<Salamander>sney, no, =D
12:12<kop>MTecknology: Is what you want to do stated somewhere in the irc backhistory?
12:13<gdb>kop: He wants to prevent users from using chmod on files over sftp.
12:14<kop>perlwizard: Sounds safe to me, but I don't know bluetooth. It could be there and not be found by the kernel. Possibly. In which case a newer kernel might possibly detect it. But I _guess_ that lspci would still see the pci device, just not be able to identify it
12:14<gdb>kop: The short reason is because the uploads must be kept private from a pool of users who all upload using the same username. The uploaded umask removes user read permission, but the user can chmod the file and download it anyway (uploaded by someone else using the same user account).
12:14<kop>MTecknology, gdb: Use sftp or whatever for upload, then use incron to move things to a read-only place?
12:15<MTecknology>they also have to stay visible so the uploader gets the cozy feeling of knowing it was uploaded
12:15<Salamander>sney, back to the previous option a Motorola SM56 PCI Modem... or maybe not =P
12:15<gdb>cron doesn't have the frequuency to ensure an enterprising user can't chmod a file and start downloading it before the cron job can remove user read permission again
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12:16<kop>MTecknology: incron could frob the permissions. In other words, it does arbitrary things.
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12:16<sney>Salamander, since that's a softmodem, even if you get it working it will not work very well.
12:16<kop>gdb: incron, not cron
12:16<MTecknology>hm... maybe I could make that work
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12:17<kop>MTecknology: You'd have to think it through. (And I found incron hard to debug, the first time. So do something really simple and build on that.)
12:17<Salamander>sney, I have been trying to make it work for two days. I think im going to quit on building a ssh server on that old PII pc.
12:18<gdb>kop: What's the latency between a filesystem event and incron's reaction?
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12:18<sney>yeah, at least until you find another pile of discarded hardware. keep an eye out for: external modems that connect by serial cable, and pci network cards that say "intel", "3com", or "texas instruments"
12:19<kop>gdb: Depends on system load. Instant from the user's perspective. Perhaps not instant from a security perspective.
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12:19<Salamander>sney, thank you very much for your help. bye
12:20<gdb>kop: The users are using WinSCP and must not be allowed to grant themselves read permission -- if it's "instant" from a user perspective, using a Windows GUI app, then incron may do it.
12:20<kop>gdb: This is why when I do stuff like that the uploaded stuff comes in in-accessable, _then_ gets frobbed.
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12:21<kop>gdb: I prefer to have things actually move directories, just to be warm and comfy about it. But that may not be a requirement. As I say, I've not thought this case through.
12:21<kop>MTecknology: See also the <upg> factoid. ("/msg dpkg upg" in irc)
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12:22<MTecknology>kop: I said it this way before... here's the normal use case -> here's the edge -> here's me ->
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12:22<kop>MTecknology:)
12:22<gdb>huh
12:22<gdb>actually
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12:23<gdb>MTecknology: instead of using incron to keep resetting the permissions (perhaps higher load if someone is futzing with it) -- you may be able to use it to change the owner of the file while it's uploading
12:23<kop>MTecknology: If you're using a shared username/password you're over the edge by definition. :-)
12:24<gdb>MTecknology: sftpd already has a read-write file handle open, the change in ownership shouldn't keep them from appending as the upload happens -- once the owner changes, it doesn't matter what they do
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12:24<gdb>MTecknology: downside is inability to resume interrupted transfers
12:24<MTecknology>I'll try that
12:24<MTecknology>food time for me :D
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12:24<gdb>have fun!
12:24<MTecknology>I'll let you know how it goes when I try this
12:24<kop>MTecknology: You might consider using a yubikey, instead of sharing usernames/passwords. Just a thought.
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12:31<josephseraos>hi everybody, is there how to restore my Debian system?
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12:34<gdb>josephseraos: That question isn't specific enough. That's like me asking you, "how do I get to the store?" Do you have enough information to give an answer that works for me?
12:34<simon_>Daft question - X11 Forwarding not getting Display set on Squeeze box. Worked on Lenny system this is supposedly an upgrade. Sure this is a daft oversight. ssh -vvv shows it tries to run xauth, xauth is installed. Where is DISPLAY actually set?
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12:37<josephseraos>gdb, If I have just installed the system, and as I am installing some programs, maybe will be some wrong that I do, and system doesn't work anymore. Is there how to store system to the point it was working, Similar to exists in MS Window
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12:38<gdb>josephseraos: There's no concept of a restore point in Linux like in Windows. The closest you're going to get is LVM snapshots and that's going to destroy anything you've done since the snapshot was taken if you do a restore of it. But you might look in that direction if you're using LVM.
12:38<sney>or partimage, if you're not using lvm
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12:39<sney>updates in debian are far less likely to hose the entire system than they are on windows, anyway
12:39<gdb>^
12:39<gdb>:-)
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12:40<gdb>josephseraos: What you're probably looking for, though, is this: I installed package foo, and I really broke its configuration. How do I get out of that? You can likely fix it by puring the offending package and reinstalling it. Then starting over.
12:40<gdb>josephseraos: if it's something you can't purge, then you can probably fix it with apt-get --reinstall install $package_name
12:41<simon_>Grr - ssh X11 forwarding was lack of IPv6.
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12:41<gdb>IPv6 is both the devil and a savior at the same time!
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12:42<josephseraos>gdb is a good way to copy all my root partition to maintain a working version of my system?
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12:43<gdb>josephseraos: I don't think that's necessary. Here's the thing, if you're just learning Linux, then hosing things up and reinstalling fresh isn't a bad thing. If you want the freedom to do that, while preserving your data, just keep /home on a separate partition. Then you can reinstall the operating system as much as you like without erasing your data. Even as you're learning Linux.
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12:47<josephseraos>gdb I have a /home partition separated. If I decide to reinstall system, is there how to get a copy of my all installed programs?
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12:49<gdb>Well, short of saving out the output of dpkg --get-selections nothing other than just remembering what you installed (or writing things down)
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13:02<ivo888>hi, can somebody tell me why this shaper doesn`t work http://paste.debian.net/166636/
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13:10<josephseraos>gdb, I have a /home partition separated. If I decide to reinstall system, is there how to get a copy of my all installed programs?
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13:10<sney>he already told you
13:12<retrospectacus>!tell josephseraos about aptitude clone
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13:18<aboudreault>Hi, I'm working on a package and added a *libmapserver* package in my src package. I'm getting this error: dpkg-shlibdeps: error: no dependency information found for debian/libmapserver/usr/lib/libmapserver-6.1-dev.so (used by debian/php5-mapscript/usr/lib/php5/20100525/php_mapscript.so.0.0.0).
13:19<aboudreault>what does it mean?
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13:19<sney>#debian-mentors for packaging questions
13:19<aboudreault>ok, thanks
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13:36<MTecknology>gnugr: I'm strugging to get local users logging in with vsftpd. :(
13:36<MTecknology>gdb: **
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13:37<EmleyMoor>I have been having trouble with serving NFS from this machine ever since IP addresses were changed, despite putting the new addresses in hosts.allow and exports. If I try to mount an exported filesystem on one of the potential clients, I get this message: mount.nfs: access denied by server while mounting... - how can I trace why this is happening? Another machine on the same network underwent similar changes but is not having this problem.
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13:39<MTecknology>gdb: I think it's ~99% working, but I'm getting an odd error (3 errors at the same time)
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14:42<newb12466343>hi to all guys, I'm pretty new to debian server administration, so i will be glad to get some help. I need to install some packages, but i got a message like these "E: Package 'jabberd2' has no installation candidate". Could you please advice what repositories I have to add for my debian 6.0.4. Thank in advance
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14:44<retrospectacus>newb12466343: jabberd2 is only in sid. Maybe you can backport it to stable
14:44<retrospectacus>,checkbackport jabberd2
14:44<judd>Backporting package jabberd2 in sid→squeeze/i386: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: libudns-dev.
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14:45<retrospectacus>nope
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14:57*xfire78xx sera :)
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15:03<MTecknology>gdb: WOOHOOO!!!! I finally got exactly(ish) what I wanted. Meets my exact needs except for seamlessly slipping into the existing process. (Have to use ftps instead of sftp)
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15:12<gdb>MTecknology: vsftpd? Great! And I guess WinSCP supports that out of the box with just a checkbox change?
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15:31<MTecknology>gdb: pretty much, also forcing ssl
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15:36<MTecknology>gdb: forcing file permissions to 040 and using the setguid bit to force a different group that what the user has access to
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15:45<vegan--11>hi
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16:40<mase>argh, gitg keeps crashing on even very trivial repositories... but i like the interface of gitg in place of gitk
16:41<elops>i need a wizard. trying to prevent these log entries from showing up in the audit log without preventing logging of access to the audit log itself. I just need to exclude logging for access from this particular binary. http://fpaste.org/ihHo/
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16:42<supaman>can the hurd kernel do cpu-throttling?
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16:50<weasel>the answer to "can the hurd kernel do <x>" is no.
16:50<retrospectacus>heh
16:50<youlysses-lt>Well currently...
16:51<retrospectacus>siyh
16:51<youlysses-lt>Theoretically could it do X, yes.
16:51<supaman>then why are new packages being built in hurd?
16:52<youlysses-lt>What new packages, there are ports put that's because it handles thing differently. (Namely Users.)
16:52<youlysses-lt>*?
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16:55<supaman>ok, I didn't mean to say "new" packags, just new uploads of package, if you look at a the auto-building part in buildd.debian.org then they all get built against hurd also, so it must be able to do something :-)
16:56<supaman>for example: https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=atlas
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16:58<themill>supaman: it's a great way of catching code that makes silly assumptions about what it's being compiled on. Multiple architectures and non-linux ports of Debian have ultimately improved the quality of a lot of the code. (whether it's really worth it remains harder to say, of course)
16:59<supaman>themill: ahh, yeh, I can see that now that you mention it
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17:00<youlysses-lt>Plus if the Hurd had a newer/better base than mach, everything would be alot better of.
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17:00<youlysses-lt>If it supported sdd, I'd be using it on all my machines now...
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17:01<elops>is it normal doing a reverse lookup on an ip addr.in-addr.arpa resolve to a MIL addr ?
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17:02<s_i_m>youlysses-lt, i do not think that mach being the base is the problem. the problem is that nobody cares about hurd.
17:02<s_i_m>i do not care too
17:03<youlysses-lt>Not true. The general public doesn't. If no-one cared there'd be no debian-hurd port coming.
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17:03<themill>fsvo coming
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17:04<s_i_m>youlysses-lt, well, yes, to be strict almost nobody cares.
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17:04<jahina>hello,
17:04<jahina>can you give me a free coupon to get this app please ?
17:04<jahina>https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/kmeomldmhmiljfkehhiigfmcgndojhfp
17:05<youlysses-lt>MOST users, and even most developers really do net care about kernels in general.
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17:06<themill>jahina: spam elsewhere, thanks
17:06<s_i_m>youlysses-lt, of course they care, as soon as something does not work.
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17:07<s_i_m>that is the reason why most users are on linux and not on bsd, for instance
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17:07<youlysses-lt>Everyone cares when something goes wrong...
17:07<jahina>hi,
17:07<jahina>can someone help me install an app please ?
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17:08<youlysses-lt>s_i_m: Yeah it has nothing to do with "hype" and a head-start. :-/
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17:10<youlysses-lt>Linux from a design standpoint is pretty conservative/old-fashioned. At the time Linus made it, Microkernels were the new "big thing", but they are alot more complicated (afaik) that's why it took so long ...
17:11<youlysses-lt>Then interested died in the hurd, because everybody was excited with GNU/Linux.
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17:12<s_i_m>at the very beginning of linux, imo, it was rather minix vs linux. minix lost because of the restrictive licensing
17:14<s_i_m>minix initially did not support i386 too
17:14<scientes>meh, microkernels have their own problems
17:14<scientes>many ABIs, like arm, only have 2 addressing modes
17:15<scientes>and all the context switches and virtual memory for user-space will sap some performance
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17:16<scientes>jahina...why do they always leave right after asking a question?
17:16<mase>youlysses-lt whats your state about installing debian/hurd on a real machine? i failed because even USB-Keyboard was not working correctly... but i'm quite interested in having an installation on an dedicated pc (not quemu).
17:17-!-Nezin [~guy@174-30-8-15.eugn.qwest.net] has joined #debian
17:17<Nezin>Hello!
17:17<retrospectacus>hi
17:18<Nezin>so, I just have a basic debian install, and can't seem to get facebook to load up, could anyone help?
17:18<Nezin>I get the blue bar at the top, but the feed, or main parts of any page, wont load.
17:18<sney>could be iceweasel 3.5 is finally too old for the internet
17:18<youlysses-lt>mase: how old is your system? Do to limitations of Mach it will only work on a hhd. But with DDE some usb drivers do work now.
17:19<scientes>yeah, ff 3.5 is kinda old
17:19<scientes>!mozilla
17:19<dpkg>Mozilla Application Suite (originally Mozilla) is an unmaintained set of Internet-oriented applications, succeeded by SeaMonkey. The <Mozilla Foundation> is focusing on Firefox and Thunderbird development. See also <seamonkey>, <firefox>, <thunderbird>.
17:19<scientes>!iceweasel
17:19<dpkg>Iceweasel is a DFSG-free fork of <firefox>, which replaced Firefox in Debian since Etch. Ask me about <why iceweasel> and <iceweasel user-agent>. In GNOME, sse gnome-default-applications-properties to change settings such as the mail reader. See also <iceweasel backports>. It is not GNU's Firefox fork (now known as <IceCat>). http://wiki.debian.org/Iceweasel
17:19<scientes>!iceweasel backports
17:19<dpkg>Backports of the Iceweasel web browser and Icedove mail client are not available from <debian backports>. See http://mozilla.debian.net/ for newer Iceweasel and Icedove for squeeze, wheezy or sid. Work continues to get the packages into the official archive without breaking too many other xul-using applications. Also ask me about <transition>, <testing>.
17:19<retrospectacus>!mdn
17:19<youlysses-lt>Ive only ran a shell though mase, no gui yet.
17:19<sney>!tell scientes -about msg the bot
17:19<scientes>sry
17:19<scientes>i know what i want, i just dont know what keyword it is
17:19<scientes>http://mozilla.debian.net/
17:19<sney>that's when messaging the bot comes in handy.
17:20<sney>I'm constantly getting <dpkg> I don't know, is it bigger than a breadbox? but since it's in a query window, it's fine
17:20<retrospectacus>mine was right but scientes spammed too much, dpkg refused :(
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17:20<sney>Nezin, what scientes's spam was supposed to communicate - you can upgrade your browser at http://mozilla.debian.net/. let us know if you get stuck.
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17:23<Nezin>sney:after getting xchat to stop freaking out, I saw, thank you, I am installing it now.
17:24<s_i_m>Nezin, btw, is Debian you first linux experience?
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17:26<Nezin>s_i_m: I have used some very limited EDUubuntu and redhat at school, where they tried making the systems linux based, but, yes, debian is MY first personal experience.
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17:27<s_i_m>I see. I got a feeling that you at least worked in a similar system before.
17:28<Nezin>s_i_m: I have been working with computers for a few years, I am just not used to linux/ubuntu/debian
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17:34<ballison>stupid question time: I'm got an nfs client that on reboot fails to mount the nfs server. but if i issue mount -a it mounts the nfs server that i have in the /etc/fstab. what do i need to add to the /etc/fstab to make it mount on reboot?
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17:36<mase>ballison: my example:
17:37<mase>zaach:/srv/gallery /srv/gallery nfs defaults 0 0
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17:37<mase>where "zaach" is my server/can be replaced by ip
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17:58<en>wwww
17:59<en>www,com
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18:00<retrospectacus>en: how can we help you?
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18:03<UpInFlames>does dmraid only support various hardware\BIOS raid implemetations?
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18:43<Brando753>guys, I kind of pulled the battory on my laptop, now when I go to login to my XFCE session it says "you logged out with less then 10 seconds, maby there was a problem with your installation." and the error log shows .ICEAuthority input output error
18:43<Brando753>what can I do?
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18:48<nevyn>delete it it' auto regened anyway
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18:49<Brando753>huh?
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18:52<nevyn>~/.ICEAuthority is automatically generated.
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19:08<mint>GRUB sucks dead donkey dicks
19:09<dvs>???
19:09<retrospectacus>mint: constructive discussion only.
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19:10<dvs>!next
19:10<dpkg>Another happy customer leaves the building.
19:10<retrospectacus>hehe
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19:43<perlwizard>`man aptitude` has mentions of 'aptitude reference manual'
19:44<perlwizard>isn't man a reference manual?
19:44<perlwizard>and if not, *what* is aptitude reference manual?
19:44-!-bluenemo_ [~bluenemo@e179080109.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #debian
19:44<themill>dpkg: tell perlwizard about aptitude docs
19:45<themill>(the man page points you there too, fwiw)
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19:59<perlwizard>ok I give up
19:59<perlwizard>this is too much docs
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20:00<perlwizard>please give me a simple answer, how do I tell aptitude to show one installing/removing/updating package per line in a list ?
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20:01<perlwizard>http://paste.debian.net/166758/
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20:19<MTecknology>gdb: Wanna know something really really frustrating?.... Apparently the requirements were over-stated and what I was told I needed wasn't really what I needed. I could have easily done what I actually needed in under an hour.
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20:26<s_i_m>perlwizard, aptitude does what you want when stdout is a pipe, afaik
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20:28<s_i_m>perlwizard, well, actually no, it does not, just checked.
20:29<perlwizard>so theres no way to do it ? :/
20:29<s_i_m>but you may use sed etc.
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20:29<perlwizard>ugh
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20:30<perlwizard>I guess I'll stick with unreadable output then
20:30<s_i_m>ah. i thought you needed it for a script
20:30<perlwizard>I needed it for me...
20:31<s_i_m>for you - you may run it in the interactive mode
20:31<reaper>Going to upgrade my platform to an Ivy Bridge. Thing is I will not allow one little fw blob on my system. Any tips on a good mobo?
20:32<reaper>and no I do not use a graphics card.
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20:33<bones_was_here>zero firmware blobs eliminates nearly all hardware on the market :P
20:35<bones_was_here>there's probably no ivy bridge hardware with no blobs
20:36-!-TheCrittaC [~critta@christopher-lemay.umeres.maine.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:36<reaper>bones_was_here thats fine with me. Realtek firmware and other stuff I don't need. I could go for a SPARC64 VIIIfx if there is no blobs needed.
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20:37<reaper>would be nice if you could pick and choose the chips on your system.
20:37<nevyn>reaper: blobs exist regardless of if you see them or not
20:37<nevyn>what's changed is you can see them and update them easily
20:37-!-Infiltrator [~tim@115.187.228.99] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:37<nevyn>your hdd has firmware
20:37-!-Infiltrator [~tim@115.187.228.99] has joined #debian
20:38<nevyn>so does your cpu
20:38<bones_was_here>pretty much every NIC
20:38<bones_was_here>even mice and keyboards
20:39<nevyn>right. they've all got "code" in them that the source is not availible for.
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20:40<nevyn>the whole firmware being loaded by the kernel or userspace isn't a bad thing nessicarily it's just made more obvious how far free software has to go.
20:41<nevyn>also it makes replacing that binary blob with a free blob easier once a free blob exists.
20:41<bones_was_here>there would be some single board computers with no or close to no firmware, those are probably the ones without a GPU or DSP :p
20:42<reaper>I have thought quite a bit about the what you are talking about. I feel really "iffy" about. I use to play with minus-0 root hypervisor like "The Blue Pill" and just don't trust my hw.
20:42<nevyn>bones_was_here: right so most interesting hardware has blobs.
20:43<nevyn>and then the dies for most cpu's arn't published in useful ways
20:43<reaper>bones_was_here I thought the graphics stack ie MESA and all was open source? I would never use a dedicated graphics card.
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20:44<nevyn>reaper: but what do you think interprets the gl instructions that are sent to the intel GMA ?
20:44<reaper>nevyn hmm, got to look more into that. I hope Wayland fixed the BUG.
20:45<bones_was_here>wayland won't
20:45<reaper>I know. Just kind of mad.
20:45<s_i_m>tiny dwarfs that live under my screen do that, nevyn
20:45<bones_was_here>even when you first turn the machine on and are looking at a GRUB or syslinux prompt, there is a VBIOS driving the display
20:45<nevyn>right. I call mine keith and dave
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20:46<bones_was_here>your DIMM modules have an EEPROM that configures them at power on
20:46-!-Infiltrator [~tim@115.187.228.99] has joined #debian
20:46<nevyn>and stores details for how often they need refreshing. what speed they are etc.
20:47-!-fr33k [~fvb@546BEC2E.cm-12-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:47<nevyn>what's changed recently is more hardware is moving to firmware in the driver being uploaded via mechinisms like DFU
20:47<nevyn>so when you power on a usb "thingy" it starts with a class set to DFU target.
20:48-!-jared0x90 [~jared0x90@pool-96-231-24-111.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #debian
20:48<nevyn>which you load the firmware to whereupon it reboots and re-registers as a "thingy" whatever it's supposed to be.
20:48<bones_was_here>even your LCD uses firmware, so you can't trust anything displayed on the screen(unless you use a CRT with analog controls for the geometry)
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20:49<nevyn>this allows for cheaper "thingies" (no 2mb eeprom part)
20:50-!-mode/#debian [+l 492] by debhelper
20:50<bones_was_here>if you get old enough equipment, everything but the BIOS is in hardware, because it used to be cheaper to fab a chip than to use an eeprom :p
20:51<nevyn>this changed 15 years ago
20:51-!-simonlnu [simon@64.235.202.164] has joined #debian
20:51<nevyn>and now we're transitioning to eepromless
20:52<nevyn>s_i_m: as in keithp and darlie ;)
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20:53<s_i_m>i see
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21:10<srdltopkaya>hi
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21:15<srdltopkaya>hi
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21:57<BlackDragon42>Hello.
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22:08<TaKaBo>hola
22:08<TaKaBo>alguien sabe que fue del hispano.org????
22:08<TaKaBo>es que hace mucho que no me conecto y acabo de flipar xD
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22:10<levi>hello...
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22:13<levi>...
22:13<levi>ok
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22:17<levi>heh...nothing is going on?
22:18<levi>thats a yes
22:18<bones_was_here>hey mate, this is a fairly big channel, hi generally wont get much response as if everyone said hi to everyone else, we'd never do anything else :p
22:18<levi>i see..
22:19<bones_was_here>if you have a debian question, shoot and then wait and usually someone will answer, but sometimes you have to ask later when different people are around
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22:19<levi>ok..
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22:33<qsmxpilot>What do I do now?
22:33<levi>do what
22:33<levi>?
22:34<qsmxpilot>Well, I wanted to get to the #ubuntu-hams channel on the irc.freenet server. And It looks like I'm not doing so well.
22:34<qsmxpilot>I haven't used IRC in about twenty years.
22:34<levi>oh.
22:34<qsmxpilot>Good evening, Levi. Thanks for helping me.
22:35<levi>you'r welcome
22:35<kop>qsmxpilot: You're on the wrong server. You probably want irc.freenode.net.
22:36<qsmxpilot>Ah. that looks right. OK here we go!
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22:36<scientes>!ubuntuirc
22:36<dpkg>This is not the Ubuntu help channel. Please do /server irc.freenode.net and then /join #ubuntu. If you are using XChat, you can right-click the following link and choose connect. irc://irc.freenode.net/ubuntu
22:36<qsmxpilot>Thank you all. HOw do I log out of here?
22:36-!-ffilion [~ffilion@134.145.80.190.l.sta.codetel.net.do] has joined #debian
22:37<kop>qsmxpilot: Probably /leave
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22:37<ryao>qsmxpilot: There is also /quit, which should close things.
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---Logclosed Tue May 01 00:00:53 2012