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#debian IRC Logs for 2012-05-14

---Logopened Mon May 14 00:00:04 2012
---Daychanged Mon May 14 2012
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00:17<mdik>hi. any ideas why debian-multimedia.org changed to deb-multimedia.org?
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01:34<don>hello
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02:33<diederik>Hi, when I ssh into my server I get to see when/fromwhere the last login was made
02:34<diederik>But my machines name is bagend (as reported by hostname), but sshd reports bree. How can that happen?
02:34<diederik>note bree was a former name of my pc
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02:38<jm_>diederik: did you restart ssh after changing hostname? note that for old logins it will keep reporting the old name (that's written in the file this info is taken from)
02:38<diederik>jm_: it was a completely new/fresh install
02:38<jm_>actually restarting makes no sense - I misread your post, it's the client name that changed, not the server's
02:39<diederik>so my pc shouldn't have knowledge of it's former name
02:40-!-mode/#debian [+l 481] by debhelper
02:41<diederik>I did restore my .ssh directory from a backup, so that's probably what caused it to know the former name. But I've purged/reinstalled sshd on my server and removed all files from my pc's .ssh directory
02:42<jm_>diederik: in that case check what name resolution is returning, you can also see it if you run sshd in debug mode
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02:42<diederik>good point, doing that now ...
02:44<diederik>PAM: setting PAM_RHOST to "bree"
02:44-!-yip [~ali@5adb29ef.bb.sky.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
02:44<diederik>so I need to search where in PAM bree is stored?
02:45<jm_>no, I think you need to check what name resolution is returning for that IP: getent hosts IP
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02:46<diederik>getent returns ... bree
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02:47<jm_>there you go
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02:52<diederik>in /etc/hosts on my server I have defined bree with the ip I'm having now (which is a 'coinsidence', dhcp)
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02:54<diederik>removed that and made a new ssh connection and now my ip is displayed.
02:55<diederik>jm_: thanks!
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02:58<jm_>diederik: no worries
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03:13<Dido>hello all
03:14<Dido>i need help
03:14<guspur>hello dido
03:14-!-arand [~mewerner_@c83-255-147-71.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #debian
03:14<Dido>i have problem
03:15<Dido>have problem whit apache2
03:17<guspur>what you problem brother?
03:18<Thorgrin>Hi, i just did aptitude upgrade and in the process got http://paste.debian.net/168687/
03:18<Thorgrin>how do I make it use dependency booting?
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03:19<jm_>Thorgrin: what does 'debconf-show sysv-rc' show?
03:19<guspur>hem, all you can help this ?
03:20<Thorgrin>jm_: * sysv-rc/unable-to-convert:
03:20<Thorgrin>and * sysv-rc/convert-legacy: false
03:20<jm_>Thorgrin: set the last one to true
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03:21<Thorgrin>stupid question... how?
03:22<jm_>the same way other packages are configured using debconf: dpkg-reconfigure sysv-rc (you might need to set priority with -p, say -plow)
03:23<Thorgrin>thanks, it is in the man page... stupid me.
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03:24<Thorgrin>so from now on no update-rc.d, but insserv
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03:25<jm_>no problem
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04:39<Akrucious>*Wave*
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04:40<byronmuyano>...
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05:36<n3lab>heeelp me(
05:36<n3lab>with microphone(
05:36<n3lab>retrospectacus, i know that u know all about debian xD
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05:36<nevyn>n3lab: what soundcard?
05:37<n3lab>i have netbook lenovo s12 with ion
05:37<n3lab>so it's integrated
05:37<n3lab>sound works but i can't enable mic
05:38<nevyn>n3lab: run alsamixer
05:38<nevyn>press F5
05:38<nevyn>select internal mic as the capture source
05:38<nevyn>n3lab: have you run alsa-info.sh and uploaded it somewhere?
05:39<n3lab>no i haven't
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05:39<n3lab>and where can i select internal mic?
05:39<n3lab>i have only boosts in alsamixer
05:39<nevyn>wget fluid-soundfont-gm - Fluid (R3) General MIDI SoundFont (GM)
05:39<nevyn>fluid-soundfont-gs - Fluid (R3) General MIDI SoundFont (GS)
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05:39<nevyn>bleh
05:40<nevyn>n3lab: wget www.alsa-project.org/alsa-info.sh and either pastebin it or let it upload and give us the url.
05:40<n3lab>kk
05:40<n3lab>wait plz
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05:43<n3lab>nevyn, http://pastebin.com/G4bmvyNp
05:43<n3lab>this?
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05:47<nevyn>hrm
05:47<nevyn>n3lab: what kernel are you running?
05:48<EmleyMoor>One of my machines is not allowing others to mount its nfs shares - getting the message mount.nfs: access denied by server while mounting... at the client side. How can I track down why this is?
05:48<nevyn>n3lab: scratch that it's in the info output
05:48<n3lab>uname -a
05:48<n3lab>Linux castle 2.6.32-5-686 #1 SMP Sun May 6 04:01:19 UTC 2012 i686 GNU/Linux
05:48<nevyn>upgrade it if there's something newer in stable.
05:48<n3lab>stable branch
05:48<n3lab>debian 6
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05:49<n3lab>it's new
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05:50<n3lab>so what can i do with mic? :)
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05:51<nevyn>n3lab: you need either a model tweak. or a newer alsa/kernel
05:51<n3lab>o_O
05:52<n3lab>it's bad(
05:52<nevyn>nah
05:52<EmleyMoor>A kernel from backports is probably the way to go=
05:52<nevyn>a model tweak is just a modprobe option to tell the alsa driver that your bios is full of lies
05:52<n3lab>i don't want kernel from backports(
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05:55<EmleyMoor>Model tweak probably simplest then
05:56<nevyn>but finding the right one...
05:57<n3lab>what is model tweak?
05:57<n3lab>and how can i do that?
05:57<n3lab>or maybe it's better to download new alsa?
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05:59<P2O2>Hi, check v3.4-rc6-precise kernel from http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
05:59<P2O2>do not pay attention to Ubuntu
06:00<P2O2>it works well under Debian 6.0.5 (latest) withjout any tweaking
06:00<P2O2>at least on my desktop PC
06:00<P2O2>but it has newer sound drivers
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06:01<P2O2>you may go back to present installation easy way
06:01<P2O2>so is instzalling new kernel from the site
06:01<P2O2>description how you'll find there:
06:01<nevyn>n3lab: just install a kernel from backports it's fixed in 3.2
06:01-!-nicholi [~nicholi@rrcs-76-79-196-34.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #debian
06:01<P2O2>http://www.khattam.info/howto-install-linux-kernel-2-6-36-or-2-6-37-in-debian-squeeze-testing-or-ubuntu-or-any-debian-based-distribution-without-compiling-2010-11-13.html
06:02<nevyn>according to : http://www.spinics.net/linux/fedora/linux-sound/msg00117.html
06:02<nevyn>P2O2: dear god no!
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06:03<P2O2>it's only for a test
06:03<n3lab>nevyn, and how can i do this? i am newbie(
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06:03<P2O2>i do not think we belong to Pureblood and Mudblood worlds do we?
06:04<noodleking>hi
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06:04<nevyn>n3lab: squeeze-backports has 3.2
06:04<n3lab>kernel 3.2?
06:05<nevyn>yep.
06:05<n3lab>and how can i install it?
06:05<noodleking>is it possible to install ubuntu's fonts in debian and if so, will doing so cause any problems to applications/systems menus within debian?
06:05<n3lab>must i add some repository to source.list?
06:05<babilen>!tell n3lab -about bdo kernel
06:05<babilen>!tell n3lab -about bdo
06:05<nevyn>http://wiki.debian.org/Backports
06:06<n3lab>ok
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06:07<n3lab>wait plz
06:08<n3lab>aptitude -t squeeze-backports install "package"
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06:08<n3lab>mm
06:09<n3lab>and what package?
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06:09<n3lab>aptitude -t squeeze-backports install kernel-package
06:09<nevyn>what arch did you install?
06:09<n3lab>whis?
06:09<nevyn>no...
06:09<nevyn>kernel-package does something else.
06:10<nevyn>did you install amd64 or i386?
06:10<n3lab>i386
06:10<nevyn>what cpu do you have?
06:10<nevyn>and how much ram?
06:10<n3lab>atom n270
06:10<nevyn>ok.
06:11<nevyn>n3lab: so run aptitude search '?narrow(~nlinux-image,?origin(Debian Backports))'
06:11<n3lab>ram - 3 gb
06:12-!-marian [~marian@p5DD45A20.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
06:12<nevyn>which should give a list of linux-image packages...
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06:12<noodleking>nevermind, finally found it on google
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06:12<n3lab>linux-image-3.2.0-0.bpo.1-686-pae
06:13<nevyn>you don't need the pae variant
06:13<nevyn>you 'only' have 3gig of ram.
06:13<n3lab>http://pastebin.com/g4iZRGDq
06:13<n3lab>i have this list
06:14<nevyn>hrm
06:14<nevyn>are atoms better with 686-pae or 486?
06:14<nevyn>anyone know?
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06:14<n3lab>maybe 486 is for 486?)
06:14<nevyn>n3lab: either the 686-pae or 486 varient will work.
06:15<n3lab>or some pentiums 2?
06:15<nevyn>pentium 2's are 686
06:15<n3lab>so what i must to install? :)
06:15<nevyn>686-pae
06:16<n3lab>it have 1 and 2
06:16<n3lab>linux-image-3.2.0-0.bpo.1-686-pae - Linux 3.2 for modern PCs
06:16<n3lab>linux-image-3.2.0-0.bpo.2-686-pae - Linux 3.2 for modern PCs
06:17<nevyn>.2
06:17<n3lab>why 2?
06:18<BiG_NoBoDy>2 is more then 1
06:18<nevyn>it's a later package rev.
06:18<BiG_NoBoDy>so 2 is newer :)
06:18<nevyn>hrm no they're both -0 ...
06:18<nevyn>hrm
06:18<nevyn>2
06:18<n3lab>so this: apt-get -t squeeze-backports install linux-image-3.2.0-0.bpo.2-686-pae
06:18<n3lab>?
06:18<BiG_NoBoDy>yes but package revision is newer
06:18<babilen>n3lab: Have you read the private messages from out bot dpkg? I would strongly recommend to install linux-image-ARCH from bdo (e.g. linux-image-amd64) as it depends on the latest kernel image.
06:18<babilen>!bdo kernel
06:18<dpkg>Newer kernels for Debian stable releases are distributed via backports.debian.org. Ask me about <bdo> to add backports to your sources.list correctly, then run "aptitude update". To list available backported kernel image packages: aptitude search '?narrow(~nlinux-image,?origin(Debian Backports))'. To install a package (e.g.): aptitude -t squeeze-backports install linux-image-`uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,'`
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06:19<babilen>n3lab: You can run "apt-get -t squeeze-backports install linux-image-$(uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,')" to install the package after adding bdo to your sources.list
06:19<n3lab>mm
06:20<n3lab>i have deb http://backports.debian.org/debian-backports squeeze-backports main
06:20<n3lab>so "apt-get -t squeeze-backports install linux-image-$(uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,')
06:20<n3lab>?
06:21<babilen>n3lab: Yes that is what I was referring to -- I am merely suggesting to install a kernel metapackage. That is: Just run "apt-get -t squeeze-backports install linux-image-$(uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,')" and it will be fine
06:21<babilen>,depends linux-image-686-pae --release squeeze-backports
06:21<judd>Package linux-image-686-pae in squeeze-backports/i386 -- depends: linux-image-3.2.0-0.bpo.2-686-pae.
06:21<n3lab>ok
06:22<babilen>Or just install linux-image-686-pae ..
06:22<n3lab>and then reboot?
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06:23<babilen>Exactly -- Do you have any hardware that requires firmware?
06:23<nevyn>oh.. good catch.
06:23<n3lab>maybe wifi
06:23<n3lab>i am newbie(
06:23<nevyn>what wifi do you have?
06:23<babilen>n3lab: That is not a problem :) -- Could you paste the output of "lspci -nn" to http://paste.debian.net ?
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06:24<babilen>n3lab: Oh, and throw in the output of "aptitude search ~i~nfirmware" as well
06:24<n3lab>http://pastebin.com/rgSYEfRC
06:25<babilen>http://paste.debian.net !
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06:25<n3lab>aptitude search ~i~nfirmware
06:25<n3lab>i firmware-iwlwifi - Binary firmware for Intel Wireless 3945, 4
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06:25<n3lab>it's installed
06:26<n3lab>and i have nvidia drivers with modprobe method
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06:26<n3lab>so reboot?
06:26<babilen>no
06:27<babilen>Please be patient
06:27<n3lab>ok boss ^^
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06:27<babilen>,pciid 14e4:1713
06:27<judd>[14e4:1713] is 'NetLink BCM5906M Fast Ethernet PCI Express' from 'Broadcom Corporation' with kernel module 'tg3' in squeeze. See also http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/index.rhtmlx?check=1&lspci=14e4:1713
06:28<babilen>n3lab: Ok, please add "contrib non-free" at the end of the backports line in your sources.list. (It should end in "main contrib non-free") -- Run "apt-get update ; apt-get -t squeeze-backports install firmware-iwlwifi firmware-linux-nonfree"
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06:28<babilen>n3lab: How did you install the nvidia driver?
06:28<n3lab>with modprobe
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06:28<n3lab>m-a auto-install nvidia-kernel-source
06:28<n3lab>with this
06:29<babilen>Oh, ok. Sad.
06:29<n3lab>from debian site
06:29<n3lab>why sad
06:29<n3lab>it was first method in faq
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06:30<nevyn>!m-a
06:30<dpkg>module-assistant is a tool helping to build additional (kernel) module packages - from Debian module source packages - and install them. "aptitude install module-assistant". See usage examples at http://wiki.debian.org/ModuleAssistant . Log files from successful (and unsuccessful!) builds can be found in /var/cache/modass/
06:30<babilen>n3lab: That means, unfortunately, that we have to take care of the nvidia module as well. This is due to the fact that module-assistant does *not* recompile modules when new kernels are installed. We therefore *strongly* recommend to use the DKMS method to install proprietary methods.
06:30<nevyn>dkms is win!
06:30<babilen>n3lab: Have you installed the firmware by now? May I see the output of the commands I mentioned earlier? (on http://paste.debian.net please)
06:31<n3lab>wait plz
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06:33<n3lab>http://pastebin.com/7Zfdtf0w
06:33<n3lab>but it's in russian
06:34<SynrG>n3lab: which faq suggests module-assistant still instead of dkms? url, please?
06:34<babilen>Please paste it to http://paste.debian.net
06:34<n3lab>oh sorry
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06:34<n3lab>http://paste.debian.net/168713/
06:34<babilen>thanks
06:35<n3lab>SynrG, wait
06:35<babilen>n3lab: Which FAW were you referring to earlier? (http://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers ?)
06:35<babilen>s/FAW/FAQ
06:35<n3lab>SynrG, http://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers
06:36<SynrG>it is strange m-a is listed first, but the document does correctly say dkms is easiest
06:36<n3lab>and if u scrool - m-a fill be first
06:36-!-nolose33 [~melibboy@95.214.83.92] has joined #debian
06:36<SynrG>we can fix that :)
06:36<babilen>SynrG, n3lab: That page is horrible in my honest opinion.
06:37<SynrG>i will at least move the dkms point above m-a
06:37<nolose33> /server irc.irc-hispano.org
06:37<nevyn>babilen: so it matches the driver?
06:37<nevyn>:)
06:37<nolose33>ggg
06:38<SynrG>crap, i can't
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06:38<babilen>SynrG: The person who wrote that page is highly protective and you might get into an edit war -- I also dislike that it doesn't mention xorg.conf.d and that it tries to discuss every single method in existence without making it clear: "Use FOO in 99.9% of the cases"
06:38<SynrG>the use of numbered anchors is horrible
06:39<SynrG>it means if i reorder the points, it will break any references
06:39<SynrG>argh
06:39<babilen>yay
06:39<SynrG>what a shit piece of work this is
06:39*babilen shoots the author
06:39<babilen>indeed
06:39*SynrG washes his hands of this page
06:39<n3lab>btw what is about kernel)
06:39<babilen>Yeah, lets get back to support.
06:40<babilen>n3lab: Ok, the problem with m-a is that it doesn't compile the module automatically whenever your kernel changes or if you install a completely new one.
06:40<n3lab>:((
06:40<babilen>n3lab: DKMS solves this, but that means that we now have to remove the module installed with m-a and replace it with the one from DKMS.
06:41<n3lab>and how?
06:41<babilen>This is not a problem, but I just want to make sure that you understand why we are doing this. -- The firmware installation went fine btw
06:41<n3lab>i am understand
06:41<babilen>n3lab: Could you please run "aptitude search ~i~nnvidia" and show me the output?
06:42<n3lab>new kernel = new building nvidia driver with m-a
06:43<n3lab>http://paste.debian.net/168715/
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06:47<babilen>n3lab: Ok, please run "apt-get -t squeeze-backports install linux-headers-686-pae ; aptitude -t squeeze-backports -r install nvidia-xconfig- nvidia-kernel-dkms" and show me the output.
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06:51<munga>does anybody know if there is a dnsmasq irc channel somewhere ?
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06:52<n3lab>babilen, it building modules for kernels now
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06:53<babilen>n3lab: Ok, great. Please show me the complete output once it is done.
06:55<n3lab>babilen, http://paste.debian.net/168717/
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07:00<babilen>n3lab: Ah, should have asked you to get that in English :)
07:00<n3lab>o_O
07:00<n3lab>how?
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07:01<n3lab>i can translate with some translater? but...
07:01<n3lab>but i think that it will be bad english
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07:02<babilen>!localized errors
07:02<dpkg>Rather than hoping that we recognise what has gone wrong from the error messages in your native language, please provide any error messages in English. You can do this by setting your locale to an English one (e.g. C) prior to running the command, e.g. LC_ALL=C apt-get -f install
07:03<babilen>n3lab: Just prefix commands with "LC_ALL=C" -- but that is not necessary. The installation looks fine and it should work. How did you configure the driver/xorg?
07:03<n3lab>with nvidia-config
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07:04<n3lab>or nvidia-xconfig
07:04<n3lab>smth like that
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07:04<n3lab>package who generates xorg.conf
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07:05<babilen>n3lab: Ok, please move your /etc/X11/xorg.conf somewhere else and run: mkdir /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d ; echo -e 'Section "Device"\n\tIdentifier "My GPU"\n\tDriver "nvidia"\nEndSection' > /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nvidia.conf" -- Paste the output of "ls -l /etc/X11/ ; cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nvidia.conf" to http://paste.debian.net
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07:07<n3lab>babilen, http://paste.debian.net/168719/
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07:08<babilen>n3lab: Please make a backup of /etc/X11/xorg.conf and remove that file (e.g. with "mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf{,_old}")
07:08<ayaka>Is there any program will use /dev/fb0 directly,not using fbcon( it need config_vt ,doesn't it)
07:09<n3lab>babilen, done
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07:10<babilen>n3lab: Wonderful -- I think we've done everything and you can reboot now. Can you come here in case the driver doesn't work?
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07:11<n3lab>so no i have old xorg?
07:11<n3lab>right?
07:11<n3lab>or new xorg?
07:11<n3lab>no=now
07:11<babilen>You can upgrade to a newer xorg version as well, but that isn't necessary.
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07:11<n3lab>ok
07:11<n3lab>then i reboot :)
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07:12<babilen>n3lab: Ok, please come back and let us know if everything went fine
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07:14<n3lab>n3lab@castle:~$ uname -a
07:14<n3lab>Linux castle 3.2.0-0.bpo.2-686-pae #1 SMP Mon Apr 23 09:33:57 UTC 2012 i686 GNU/Linux
07:14<n3lab>:)
07:15<babilen>yay :)
07:15<n3lab>and nvidia works :)
07:15<babilen>\o/
07:15<n3lab>but it's difficult
07:16<n3lab>so and what about mic?)
07:16<babilen>Well, not really. What made it difficult if the fact that you are new to this and that we've had to undo some of your configuration.
07:16<n3lab>oh
07:16<babilen>n3lab: What about MIC? I have no idea, I merely saw you discussing upgrading to a newer kernel and wanted to make sure that it is done correctly. :)
07:17<n3lab>loool
07:17<n3lab>i want working mic
07:17<n3lab>and somebody says that i must update krenel)
07:17<babilen>*sigh*
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07:18<babilen>n3lab: Unfortunately I am being called to have lunch. Please check if your microphone works now and I can help you later when i'm back.
07:18<n3lab>ok
07:18<n3lab>=)
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07:18<n3lab>thanks :)
07:18<babilen>Other people in here might have a few minutes to spare :)
07:19<ayaka>MIC, about audio?
07:20<n3lab>yap
07:20<n3lab>microphone
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07:21<ayaka>do you plug it in the front audio board
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07:22<ayaka>and Have you checked the alsamix
07:22<n3lab>now i have internal mic in alsamixer
07:22-!-hele [~hele@212-149-220-248.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #debian
07:22<n3lab>but i have no mic in skype o_O
07:23<n3lab>i have internal mic
07:24<ayaka>n3lab can you hear the sound beyond the skype
07:24<n3lab>how can i test it?
07:24<n3lab>i can hear
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07:25<n3lab>i can't speak
07:25<n3lab>sound works. but microphone
07:27<ayaka>I remember there is a recoder in gnome
07:28<n3lab>i haven't them
07:28<n3lab>:(
07:28<n3lab>but skype
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07:29<ayaka>in my memory,you need pulseaudio to support skype
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07:30<n3lab>omg
07:30<n3lab>and with alsa?
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07:31<ayaka>yes
07:31<Sillencer>Hello. I try to set up ISPConfig mail server, but I get this error: " debian postfix/smtp[13074]: connect to alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[74.125.127.26]:25: Connection timed out"
07:31<Sillencer>any ideas why ?
07:32<n3lab>skype can use alsa(
07:32<n3lab>it says in their support blog
07:32<n3lab>and where can i get gnome-volume-control?
07:33<ayaka>!install
07:33<dpkg>There are a myriad different ways to install Debian. See http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/debian-installer for a list of images and ask me about <various cd1>. See also <install guide> and <d-i> for detailed instructions. (If you've never installed Debian before, you should read the install guide.)
07:34<ayaka>n3lab sorry, use apt-get install to do
07:35<pparadis>Sillencer: that seems like it may have been a temporary issue. i just tried to hit port 25 for that IP from here and it worked: http://paste.debian.net/168722/
07:35<n3lab>there are have no packages with name gnome-volume-control
07:35<pparadis>Sillencer: alternately, does your ISP allow outbound connections to other servers on port 25?
07:35<BiG_NoBoDy>Sillencer, try: nc 74.125.127.26 25
07:38<Sillencer>sec
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07:38<Sillencer>nc 74.125.127.26 25
07:38<Sillencer>(UNKNOWN) [74.125.127.26] 25 (smtp) : Connection timed out
07:38<pparadis>you can also try connecting to other known good SMTP servers on 25 to see if your ISP doesn't like it.
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07:39<pparadis>some (many) ISPs will block connections to anything but their own mail servers.
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07:40<Sillencer>I don't really think that the ISP is blocking it... Could it be something else ?
07:40<BiG_NoBoDy>try using gmail as relay host over 578 (i think) port
07:40<pparadis>they do this as an "anti spam" measure, and typically want you to relay through their servers instead.
07:40<pparadis>yepper, the submission port (587) is often unblocked.
07:41<Sillencer>how do I check
07:41<ayaka>n3lab http://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=contents&keywords=gnome-volume-control&mode=path&suite=stable&arch=any
07:41<n3lab>ok
07:42<pparadis>Sillencer: same as with 25, you just use nc or telnet to try to connect to it.
07:42<Sillencer>did that
07:42<Sillencer>timeout
07:42<n3lab>btw i not hear myself after record with gnome recorder
07:42<n3lab>(
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07:42<pparadis>Sillencer: you may wish to ask your ISP whether they block outbound connections to other networks' mail servers as a matter of policy then.
07:42<pparadis>the only other thing i could think to check would be your own local iptables or ebtables rules.
07:43<pparadis>but with a vanilla ISPConfig install, i don't believe that would be the issue.
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07:43<pparadis>is this on a home network, hosted somewhere, what?
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07:47<Sillencer>I'm kind of a newb in administration
07:47<Sillencer>here is my firewall rules
07:47<Sillencer>http://pastebin.com/pdx2ZbcL
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07:48<Apollo>Sillencer: I suggest you take a look at shorewall
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07:49<Apollo>they abstract the usage of IPTables to make it easier for you
07:49<ayaka>n3lab mm, does the recoderd show wave
07:49<BiG_NoBoDy>or ufw :)
07:49<n3lab>aaaa
07:49<Sillencer>yes, for now, I'm just using this...
07:49<pparadis>also, you can always flush your iptables rules completely as a quick check to see if it changes anything.
07:49<n3lab>i do it!
07:49<n3lab>xDDD
07:49<n3lab>ayaka, i enabled mic)
07:49<n3lab>but too much noise(
07:50<Apollo>and what pparadis said
07:50<pparadis>Sillencer: http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/linux-iptables-how-to-flush-all-rules.html <-- maybe helpful
07:50<Apollo>I also don't know about any ISP that allows the "lower" port numbers through
07:50<ayaka>n3lab well, I can't help you about this, sorry
07:50<pparadis>if you don't get anywhere after, i'd ask your ISP directly whether they're blocking outbound 25 to anything but their own mail servers.
07:50<Apollo>You usually need to buy a specific plan for that, or request access from their support
07:50<pparadis>yepper
07:51<Apollo>you can test this by putting netcat on a port > 1024
07:51<Apollo>and trying to telnet into it
07:51<Apollo>if that works it's your ISP
07:51<pparadis>for US-based ISPs (home plans) it typically costs a few extra bucks per month, although some require moving to a "business" plan instead.
07:51<n3lab>ispconfig is not so good
07:52<pparadis>but if you are attempting to do hosting type stuff from a home network, you probably want to make sure you're adhering to the TOS for your ISP first anyhow.
07:52<inkbottle>Hi, The bug #671269 is said to be solved, but it isn't: it still break ifupdown (< 0.7~rc1; in sid it is 0.7~alpha5+really0.6.16)
07:52<Sillencer>flushed iptables, still, Connection time out
07:52<pparadis>i agree, ispconfig really isn't very good. you're going to be much better off in the long run starting out learning how to configure basic things like HTTP, SMTP, etc yourself.
07:52<Sillencer>It's a small company here, so I don't think ISP will block anything
07:52<pparadis>control panels are "great" until things break, and then you're screwed.
07:53<Apollo>Also: has the openssl bug been resolved?
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07:53<Sillencer>true, but we should have users, and we need web control panel, like ISPconfig
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07:53<pparadis>Sillencer: well, if you flushed your rules but still aren't able to connect to the desired ports, odds are very good that it *is* your ISP. i'd give them a call before beating your head against a wall any more :)
07:53<Apollo>Sillencer: who is your ISP?
07:54<Sillencer>I'm not in US
07:54<pparadis>a lot of folks here aren't in the US either.
07:54<pparadis>Debian: It's Worldwide!
07:54*pparadis ducks
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07:55<perlwizard>Sillencer remove all firewall rules, ping that google host, then try to nc on port 25
07:55<Apollo>Sillencer: it's the same for most, if not all ISPs
07:56<Sillencer>so if "nc 74.125.127.26 25" works for you, and for me with iptables flushed, it means it could be only the ISP ?
07:56<perlwizard>if still can't connect but see ping, it's your isp's fault
07:56<Apollo>Sillencer: no, if it works with IPTables flushed it means you have a wrong IPTables rule
07:56<BiG_NoBoDy>Sillencer, and everything else works?
07:56<Sillencer>ping goes, nc on port 25 not
07:57<Sillencer>iptables flushed
07:57<pparadis>Sillencer: then it is likely your ISP.
07:57<Apollo>indeed
07:57<Sillencer>ok, tnx, I'll try to contact them
07:57<pparadis>the _only_ other thing i could think of would be a rule on your local network's router that blocks outbound traffic like that.
07:57<BiG_NoBoDy>Sillencer, and all policies ACCEPT, and as i understood 25 is not
07:58<pparadis>so that would be the only other thing to ask, perhaps talk to your local network admin and also your ISP.
07:58<gnugr>Sillencer: try this command it might works "iptables -I INPUT -p tcp --dport 25 -j ACCEPT"
07:58<pparadis>whoah now, he's already flushed everything and set all chains to ACCEPT i believe.
07:59<pparadis>Sillencer: am i correct on that?
07:59<BiG_NoBoDy>yes
07:59<BiG_NoBoDy>http://pastebin.com/pdx2ZbcL
07:59<Sillencer>pparadis: yes
07:59<pparadis>kk
07:59<Sillencer>no router, server connected directly
08:00<pparadis>ISP phone call time.
08:00<Sillencer>yes, tnx :)
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08:15<CronD>irc.mirc.gr
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08:15<perlwizard>why do some packages require exim4
08:16<perlwizard>even though they are not sending any email
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08:16<pparadis>perlwizard: some stuff likes having a local MTA for reporting purposes.
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08:16<perlwizard>hmm
08:16<pparadis>or they depend on other stuff that depends on that.
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08:17<perlwizard>I don't understand how local MTA works ...
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08:17<pparadis>perlwizard: it just gives them a mechanism for sending mail from the local host.
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08:18<perlwizard>ok
08:18<perlwizard>thanks pparadis
08:18<pparadis>np
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09:34<ArZ>Hello, All. After recent update or after my curly hands, my wifi card is in state "Hardware blocked". Switch on notebook was pressed many times with no result. How do i enable it again?
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09:34<CaBa>hi
09:35<CaBa>'update-flashplugin-nonfree --install' gives a gpg error. is there any preliminary step such as trusting a gpg key necessary?
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09:40<afuentes>ArZ, you can try a live cd... that way you know if its hardware related or software related
09:41<SynrG>ArZ: some drivers don't properly support toggling. boot to your BIOS and enable there
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09:43<weebl>is it just me or are the changelogs not showing on packages.debian.?
09:43<ArZ>may it be recent kernel update?
09:43<weebl>no, not a kernel package
09:44<afuentes>CaBa, not really... afaik, you download directly from http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/get/flashplayer/pdc/11.2.202.235/install_flash_player_11_linux.x86_64.tar.gz
09:44<weebl>http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/iceweasel <- when i click debian changelog it gives me a 404
09:45<afuentes>weebl, it works here
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09:45<weebl>can you give me the link it gives you? it gives me http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/i/iceweasel/iceweasel_3.5.16-15/changelog
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09:45<afuentes>oh, ok, it does not
09:45<afuentes>^^
09:46<CaBa>afuentes: what difference does the package make then? the package doesn't even provide updates?
09:46<afuentes>apt-get changelog iceweasel works tho :) if you just wanna check the logs
09:46<afuentes>CaBa, i dont think so
09:46<afuentes>im not sure why tho
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09:48<weebl>$ apt-get changelog iceweasel
09:48<weebl>E: Invalid operation changelog
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09:48<afuentes>weebl, you must have an old version of apt-get
09:48<afuentes>weebl, try aptitude changelog iceweasel
09:49<weebl>$ aptitude changelog iceweasel
09:49<weebl>Err Changelog of iceweasel
09:49<weebl>E: Changelog download failed: 404 Not Found [IP: 194.177.211.202 80]
09:49<weebl>no luck today lol
09:49<afuentes>weebl, well, afaik, that command takes the changelog directly from the package, thats it, it downloads the package and extract the changelog
09:50<afuentes>anyway, its working here :s
09:50<weebl>$ apt-get --version
09:50<weebl>apt 0.8.10.3 for amd64 compiled on Apr 15 2011 07:35:31
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09:50<weebl>what version do you have
09:50<afuentes>im in testing :S
09:50<weebl>ah
09:51<afuentes>maybe there is some problem with stable version
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09:51<afuentes>weebl, can you do apt-get download iceweasel?
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09:52<afuentes>if you can, the changelog is inside the iceweasel.deb
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09:53<weebl>E: Invalid operation download
09:53<weebl>XD
09:54<weebl>fuck it ill upgrade whenever they fix the changelog @ website
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09:54<weebl>too much effort, probably not too important
09:54<gnugr>weebl:please use "apt-get install iceweasel"
09:54<gnugr>not download
09:54<weebl>i don't want to install it before i read the changelog
09:54<weebl>(:
09:55<afuentes>weebl, change the mirror for your repository
09:55<afuentes>i think yours is somehow broken
09:55<weebl>no errors on apt-get update
09:55<afuentes>oh... ok, its just and invalid operation
09:56<afuentes>old apt-get cant do download either, huh
09:56<weebl>my apt-get doesnt have download yet
09:56<afuentes>aptitude download iceweasel?
09:56<themill>weebl: apt-listchanges lets you view the changelog prior to install, or you can aptitude download package and then view it
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09:56<rev>09:56 < weebl> my apt-get doesnt have download yet
09:56<towo`>apt-get can download
09:56<rev>what old version are you using ?
09:56<towo`>apt-get -d install foo
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09:57<themill>"apt-get download" only works from sid onwards
09:57<themill>err. "wheezy onwards"
09:58<weebl>all sorted now thx
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10:05<afuentes>:D
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10:19<Saintwolf>Hey guys, I'm trying to do an apt-get upgrade, but every time I try it exits with "find: invalid predicate '-delete'" cash while trying to install python-minimal. Anyone had this error before or know how to fix it?
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10:20<themill>please pastebin the entire output along with the output of "apt-cache policy; apt-cache policy python python-minimal dpkg apt"
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10:30<safinaskar>is debian designed for using on diskless station with read-only nfs boot? my question is not "help! i can't configure my client" (i can this), my question is "is debian designed for..?". i think, no. for example: [1] boot scripts show message: "warning: / seems to be mounted read-only". why this is warning? you should be ready for read-only booting [2] boot scripts tries to write to /etc (i mean writing to /etc/network/run, this dir should be symlink to
10:30<safinaskar> some subdir in /run) [3] another init script tries to write to /etc/udev/rules.d [4] there is no some official debian document which specify what dirs should be mounted read-only and what dirs should be tmpfs. of course, there is fhs, but this is not debian doc. of course, there is debian policy, but it doesn't content some clean table which can answer my question
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10:39<SynrG>safinaskar: "designed for"? if by this you mean "should work out of the box", probably not. if you mean "can be made to work", probably can be. as for your particular problems, i am not familiar enough with what you're trying to do in order to comment.
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10:40<SynrG>safinaskar: but we can address it point by point. point 1. boot scripts (which boot script?)
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10:42<SynrG>(that is, i think you'll get more help here trying to solve individual, solvable sub-problems than trying to find help clarifying some grand, architectural plan for how things ought to be in debian ... for this, as you have rightly said, there is Debian Policy)
10:43<SynrG>if you want to tackle some problem you think exists on a larger scale, talking to the debian-devel list is probably best.
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10:47<safinaskar>SynrG: of course, it should not work out of the box. but package maintainers should not freely make assimptions about "/ is read-write" (and this should be in the policy). and my points proofs they makes such assumptions. of course, i can solve this subproblems and i AM SOLVING they now. i don't need help.
10:48<SynrG>ok. so my other point ... ask on the debian-devel mailing list.
10:49<SynrG>you are much more likely to get a good range of opinions there about what debian *ought* to be designed to handle than here.
10:49<SynrG>and maybe even some constructive discussion on making it happen, if you're lucky :)
10:49<SynrG>but your summary was distressingly lacking specifics (which we thrive on here)
10:50<safinaskar>SynrG: thanks :) i will not write to lists
10:50<SynrG>when you try again there, be sure to cite specific examples
10:50<SynrG>why not?
10:50<safinaskar>SynrG: hmm, i'm too lazy
10:50<rev>I run a lot (read 1000s) of debian instances on ro-nfs, off the top of my head I had to get /dev populated in a tmpfs, /tmp as tmpfs, /var/run as tmpfs, and syslog to go to a syslog server.
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10:51<SynrG>rev: in other words, it was non-obvious?
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10:51<SynrG>rev: so where's the nice HOWTO you wrote up (maybe in the wiki) once you figured it out? :)
10:52<SynrG>(or maybe you can help safinaskar with any doc you found)
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10:52<safinaskar>SynrG: it is obvious. just configure fstab
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10:52<safinaskar>SynrG: rev: no, i don't need help
10:53<blast007>might this be helpful? http://wiki.debian.org/ReadonlyRoot :)
10:53<weasel>SynrG: rev's description seems like something that'd be obvious once one actually tries it
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10:53<safinaskar>[1] i don't need help [2] i don't want to send bug reports or patches (because i'm lazy) [3] i just want to know is debian policy requires that debian should be able to boot read-only
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10:54<weasel>[1] ok; [2] then you're part of the problem; [3] no.
10:54<SynrG>safinaskar: you have access to Debian Policy just as we do. did you read it?
10:54<safinaskar>weasel: oooh! thanks!
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10:54<weasel>you're welcome.
10:54<safinaskar>weasel: you answered my main question! thanks again!
10:55<weasel>safinaskar: that being said, it can probably be gotten to work with trivial investments when you deploy it as such.
10:55<weasel>I've done it. it's not hard Hard.
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10:55<safinaskar>blast007: thanks for good link
10:55<weasel>so have ltos of other people.
10:56<safinaskar>SynrG: i didn't find anything about this
10:56<weasel>that answers your question then, doesn't it?
10:56<SynrG>fair enough. then you will have already concluded the answer to 3
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10:56<SynrG>and since 1 and 2 are non-starters, there was nothing to ask about
10:57<safinaskar>weasel: yes
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10:58<SynrG>(that being said, judging by your excitement at having been pointed at resources that would help, you *did* come here seeking help, and you came away with something useful, which puts the lie to your assertion that you didn't need help)
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10:58<kop>safinaskar: If you want to boot read-only then you need to know what's writable and why. See the <fhs>.
10:58<kop>!tell safinaskar about fhs
10:59<SynrG>i think perhaps you could work on your approach to seeking help a bit :p
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10:59<weasel>:)
10:59<safinaskar>SynrG: i don't need help in configuring my nfs. but of course, i did need help in ansering the question
10:59<safinaskar>kop: i read fhs
11:00<safinaskar>kop: SynrG: weasel: rev: blast007: okey, okey, i understand all. thanks again
11:00<SynrG>well, as usual, the questions you claimed to be asking and the questions you were apparently asking were slightly different. but this is nothing new here.
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11:00<SynrG>glad you got what you were looking for in any case
11:00<SynrG>just next time, try to be a bit less obtuse
11:00<weasel>safinaskar: I'd be interesting to learn if the ReadonlyRoot wiki entry is helpful
11:01<weasel>safinaskar: let us know once/if you find out?
11:01<safinaskar>weasel: i don't understand
11:02<bluenemo_>hi guys, i'm administrating a server which runs multiple rails websites. i spend a few hours fighting some webhosting systems before and kind of liked the extremely minimal systems around there. i was wondering how to setup this on my own root server. what i want is basicly a very mimimized VM for every website / application. does any of you know where to start with that / what i mean :) ? i'm not sure if they use VM's (like kvm) and stuff
11:02<bluenemo_> or just some strange chroots or so
11:02<safinaskar>SynrG: yes, i produced a lot of bad critique
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11:02<kop>!tell bluenemo_ about lxc
11:03<kop>bluenemo_: lxc is as minimal as you can get.
11:03<bluenemo_>cool. that was about what i was looking for. thank you very much kop :) (btw fancy nick ;)
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11:08<bluenemo_>not that i dont like it, just for comparison, are there any other tools for the task? or is lxc THE tool (that most companies use as well)?
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11:13<kop>bluenemo_: You can fake it with choot, but that's not what chroot is for and isn't secure. Otherwise you can use openvz (although that's deprecated in dbian because it requires kernel patches and is pretty much lxc) or go to a full VM like kvm, xen, etc. (KVM would be my choice, being the more FOSS alternative I think it'll be better supported in the long run.)
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11:15<kop>bluenemo_: A lot of companies will use vmware, just because they got there first and they're used to it. Whether a propiretary choice is the right way to go for a new deployment you'll have to figure out.
11:15*pparadis <3 kvm
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11:20<dioz>is this #debian?
11:20<dioz>does debian work w/ intel gma 3600?
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11:29<sney>dioz, it should
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11:37<safinaskar>kop: weasel: SynrG: rev: blast007: hi! i read wiki/readonlyroot. and understand something more! at first, there are 3 types of fs: 1. rw, but not tmpfs 2. ro, but not tmpfs 3. rw, tmpfs. i tried to configure nfs client which uses 2 and 3 types only. and so i get a lot of problems. but the wiki says that there should be fs of the first type (for example, /etc). and as far as i know this is in the policy. so, debian IS designed for r/o boot, debian SHOULD
11:37<safinaskar> work with r/o boot, and the policy SPECIFIES this, but there should be some dirs of the first type
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11:41<bluenemo_>kop, thank you for your opinion. i'm a big kvm fan too :) i'll stick with lxc, thx a lot!
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11:42<safinaskar>so, i should use one of the 3 ways: [a] use only 2 and 3 types of dirs. but this way is not supported and i forced to solve all problems myself. i should use this way at my own risk [b] i should covert some dirs to tmpfs at boot type. year, this is tricky. i should mount tmpfs, copy content of dir to this tmpfs and move this mount to the place [c] use aufs
11:42<safinaskar>what do you think about it?
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11:48<ArZ>Hello, All, again. My wifi card b43 driver says it id disabled by hardware. I did livecd it says no firmware, so i suppose that hardware is working. My question is was is 2.6.32-44\45 update or am i doing something wrong?
11:48<kop>safinaskar: I think you should tell us what you're really trying to accomplish. Why readonly? What needs to run/why not just keep all your processes from writing? If you do that you can mount ro without any problems.
11:50<safinaskar>kop: i want to use 1 nfs server and many diskless nfs clients. (in fact, nfs server is just my laptop, and client are just virtual machines on this laptop, but this doesn't make sense)
11:50<safinaskar>kop: so, clients have no disks. so they have no any local data. they have only 2 types of data: 1. remote data 2. local tmpfs data
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11:51<safinaskar>kop: and remote data should be mounted read-only (of course). if i mount it rw, clients will disaster each other
11:51<safinaskar>kop: but, as i read in wiki, there whould be some local rw data
11:52<safinaskar>kop: so, i should use some trick, for example aufs
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11:52<kop>safinaskar: Mostly only logs and the mail spool. So, turn those off/redirect logs to a log server.
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11:53<safinaskar>kop: ok
11:53<safinaskar>s/whould/should/
11:53<ArZ>if i do ifconfig wlan0 up it says unknown event 132
11:54<kop>safinaskar: I didn't read the wiki, but what local writable data do you need? (outside of /tmp/ /var/tmp)
11:54<dioz>sney: afaik there are no linux drivers for the intel 3600gma
11:55<sney>well then you know more than I do. the only one I was aware of bad support is gma500/poulsbo. gma(x)3000 support was in as of 2006
11:55<safinaskar>kop: i don't need. but i see that debian need. debian boot scripts tries to write to /etc, /var
11:55<safinaskar>kop: and wiki says same
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11:55<safinaskar>kop: wiki says that /var and /etc must be writable
11:56<safinaskar>kop: i don't need help (again :). i just want to say you (and some other people i spoke in the channel) about my idea
11:56<safinaskar>s/idea/ideas/
11:57<bluenemo_>i have a strange problem :) /sys/fs# mkdir cgroup
11:57<bluenemo_>mkdir: cannot create directory `cgroup': No such file or directory
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11:57<safinaskar>bluenemo_: you cannot create something in the /sys
11:57<safinaskar>bluenemo_: /sys is special virtual kernel fs
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11:58<bluenemo_>uh ok, i wanted to mout cgroup there, is this then automaticly done with a reboot or so? mount -a gives me no such dir..
11:58<bluenemo_>(mount: mount point /sys/fs/cgroup does not exist)
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11:58<kop>safinaskar: Ok. (I've looked at the wiki) If it were me I'd try to have everything but /tmp /var/tmp readonly and configure my system so that nothing else was needed/need be writable.
12:00<safinaskar>bluenemo_: hmm, try some ways. and if any of they will not help, use the following very very bad hack: install "systemd" to your debian. it mounts cgroup at startup
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12:00<safinaskar>bluenemo_: also, you can try to figure what is the different between systemd and sysvinit and why you cannot mount cgroups and why systemd cannot this
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12:00<bluenemo_>systemd? cant find it via apt-cache search. non-free?
12:01<safinaskar>bluenemo_: it is in wheezy
12:01<bluenemo_>aah ok i c. i'm on the root server so stable. well there's got to be something, i'll turtle around a bit with it :) thank you so far!
12:02<safinaskar>s/why systemd cannot this/why systemd can this/
12:02<safinaskar>bluenemo_: try on some another machine
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12:03<safinaskar>bluenemo_: you just to know way how systemd do this. and use same method on your stable machine
12:03<bluenemo_>ok thank you man :)
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12:03<safinaskar>bluenemo_: try to google at first. maybe there is some howto about cgroups
12:03<bluenemo_>i'm on it already
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12:04<safinaskar>bluenemo_: hmm, our channel is not google. it is for advanced questions. only if search didn't help
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12:04<k2z>âñåì ïðèâåò! À ðóññêèå òóò åñòü?
12:05<@Ganneff>!ru
12:05<dpkg>Это английскоговорящий канал, пожалуйста, говорите по-английски или посетите #debian-russian (Russian speakers please go to #debian-russian)
12:05<safinaskar>k2z: i'm russian too
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12:06<bluenemo_>safinaskar, yes sry.. was so amused about the error that i posted it before. but you're correct, sry
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12:11<project2501b>hey guys. is there a guide on how to setup SGE on Debian, the debian way? google does not come up with much. i tried looking for an entry in the wiki as well, but no dice. clue, please?
12:13<sney>SGE stands for?
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12:13<pparadis>that was my next question. does it stand for what is now known as oracle grid engine?
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12:13<craigevil>stargateenterprise :)
12:14<pparadis>yeah, that came to mind as well :)
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12:27<khaktoos>can I have gnome3 besides my gnome2 wdm and I choose what to use when I login?
12:29<gdb>khaktoos: No, the GNOME developers did not allow for versions 2 and 3 to be installed together.
12:29<sney>if mate makes it into debian, there will be a similar option available, but that hasn't happened
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12:31<khaktoos>shit
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12:32<craigevil>you can always just add the mate repo and install mate, it works
12:32<DebianLover>is it possible to lock and unlock the keyboard from a script?
12:32<khaktoos>does compiz works in debian 6.0.4?
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12:33<khaktoos>fuck Justin Bieber
12:33<gdb>Huh?
12:33<gdb>Wrong window?
12:34<pparadis>...
12:34<sney>haha
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12:34<sney>yes, compiz works but can be a pain to set up in anything other than gnome
12:36<pparadis>E: Unable to locate package justin-beiber
12:36<pparadis>E: Unable to locate package bieber
12:36<pparadis>E: Unable to locate package thebieb
12:36<pparadis>sorry man, i don't think we can help with that one.
12:36<khaktoos>what is the most beautiful xdm available for Debian?!
12:37<khaktoos>pparadis, lol
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12:38<pparadis>khaktoos: for debian desktop systems, i don't do anything other than vanilla installs. most of stuff doesn't even have a desktop, though.
12:38<pparadis>s/stuff/my stuff/
12:38<khaktoos>what the hell u mean?!
12:38<khaktoos>you seem to be a Justin Bieber fan X-(
12:39<pparadis>well, i've actually never deviated from the standard gnome-desktop type setup on debian.
12:39<pparadis>and i'm way too old to be a justin bieber fan.
12:39<pparadis>thankfully.
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12:39<khaktoos>lets say you are way too HUMAN to be a Justin Bieber fan, dude ;)
12:40<pparadis>possibly that :)
12:40<khaktoos>brb... dinner :D
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12:55<khaktoos>s
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13:01<DebianLover>is it possible to lock and unlock the keyboard from a bash script?
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13:02<youlysses>I'm sure it is. Just have to tell X to not accept keyboard input?
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13:03<DebianLover>youlysses: i don't have X
13:03<youlysses>Non-gui?
13:03<DebianLover>no
13:03<youlysses>Wayland?
13:03<DebianLover>yes non-gui :)
13:03<retrospectacus>!wayttd DebianLover
13:03<dpkg>What Are You Trying To Do, DebianLover?
13:04<pparadis>are you talking about something like? http://linux.die.net/man/1/vlock
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13:04<RalfJ>Usually, when logging in to a Debian system (on a shell or using a DM), I get ~/bin added to my path. However, since I switched from KDM to lightdm, this is no longer the case, and I had to set up my profile manually to do so. is this a bug or not?
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13:06<DebianLover>dpkg: I've written a script which runs some functions in background and wait til the functions are finished. For waiting it shows: "The programme is working... (form 1 dot till 3 dots).
13:06<dpkg>that's too long, DebianLover
13:06<daemonkeeper>dpkg: bot
13:06<dpkg>I ain't no stinkin' bot. I am a finely tuned and hand crafted tool. Oh wait... I guess I am a bot (that you should not abuse).
13:06<retrospectacus>RalfJ: that is specified in ~/.profile, should not matter the DM
13:07<RalfJ>retrospectacus: lightdm does not source ~/.profile
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13:07<DebianLover>retrospectacus: at that point kan the user types
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13:08<the_incognito>quit
13:08<DebianLover>retrospectacus: but i don't want it
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13:08<RalfJ>retrospectacus: and the maintainer says this is not a bug: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=672793 as .profile is not for DMs (but kdm and gdm source it...)
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13:11<craigevil> ~/.bashrc would be the place to add ~/bin to your PATH rather than using .profile
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13:12<DebianLover>retrospectacus: showing "Programme is working ..." the user can type. But i don't want it
13:12<retrospectacus>DebianLover: it's certainly possible but I am not sure the best way to do it, maybe ask at irc://irc.freenode.net/#bash
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13:12<DebianLover>retrospectacus: i was there
13:12<RalfJ>craigevil: no, KDE is also starting programs located in ~/bin, and it'd make no sense at all for .bashrc to be sourced somewhere between DM and KDE
13:13<DebianLover>retrospectacus: they said that it is an os issue
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13:14<craigevil>i have in /usr/lib/surfraw:/usr/lib/surfraw in my PATH to make it easier to use surfraw, the surfraw-update-path script added it to my .bashrc and to .profile, it works no matter what dm I use
13:14<one>Good evening. Anyone know about glibc 2.15 or older in debian? I heard about eglibc. What is it?
13:15<RalfJ>did you try lightdm? my firefox stopped working when I changed to it, and now I set up KDE to source .profile (using ~/.kde/env) to make it work again but thats more like a work-around
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13:15<craigevil>export PATH=$PATH:/usr/lib/surfraw is in both .bashrc and .profile
13:15<daemonkeeper>one: Right that. Debian uses eglibc, not glibc.
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13:16<one>Why eglibc?
13:16<RalfJ>craigevil: that doesnt do anything if I use lightdm, sicne neither is sourced
13:16<craigevil>i dont use ~bin, I made a firefox.desktop file and copied it to /usr/share/applications so it shows up on the KDE menu
13:16<daemonkeeper>one: http://blog.aurel32.net/47
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13:17<retrospectacus>!tell one about eglibc
13:18<craigevil>or you can follow the guide at Tech Patterns :: Switching from Debian Iceweasel to Firefox, permanently - http://techpatterns.com/forums/about1435.html
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13:20<RalfJ>the issue is not just about firefox, theres a whole lot of stuff in my ~/bin ;-)
13:20<craigevil>ah ok, only time ive seen ~bin was when I had IE installed in wine
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13:21<RalfJ>I use it for games I isntalled with wine, for teamspeak, for some compiler package I need to compile ARM stuff, for firefox, for little helper scripts I wrote, ...
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13:22<retrospectacus>I use it a lot too, but usually only from bash, not the dm
13:23<one>About test debian, nepomunk dont work. Cant find soprano virtuoso.
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13:25<RalfJ>one: youll need to download virtuoso packages manually, or disable nepomuk in the systemsettings
13:27<one>You mean download soprano and build soprano virtuoso?
13:27<RalfJ>one: no, download the .deb files from unstable
13:27<RalfJ>http://packages.debian.org/source/unstable/virtuoso-opensource
13:28<one>I will try it.
13:28<RalfJ>you'll need libvirtodbc0, virtuoso-minimal, virtuoso-opensource-6.1-bin and virtuosos-opensource-6.1-common
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13:40<willdabeast>Hey, I am new to debian, I am merely at the installation process. Most guides I read are installing the OS from Linux already being on the machine. I need help with Windows to Debian. Please Msg me here or pm me!
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13:40<retrospectacus>!tell willdabeast about ig
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13:46<willdabeast>retrospectatus, I have looked at that guide, and I just want to know if I can fresh install on a new HD with just the debian boot image .tar.gz file.
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13:49<retrospectacus>willdabeast: hmm yes, I think you could just untar it onto the drive and see if it boots. If not you may need to do some GRUB stuff... no idea how to do any of that from windows though
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13:50<willdabeast>retrospectatus, how do you untar it onto the drive? No idea?
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13:51<retrospectacus>well in linux, something like tar zx -c /mnt/drive -f debian.tgz
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13:52<retrospectacus>oops -C /mnt/drive
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13:55<retrospectacus>willdabeast: you'd need to format the drive to your choice of Linux filesystem first
13:56<retrospectacus>willdabeast: why are you trying to do it that way though? I recommend to download burn and boot the netinstaller, much more straightforward
13:56<retrospectacus>!netinst
13:56<dpkg>methinks netinst is a small CD image with which you can install Debian. If, during the installation process you have a working Internet connection, you can install more packages straight away, otherwise, you will have a base install and more packages later. See http://www.debian.org/CD/netinst/ See also <various cd1>, <check iso image>, <dialup install>, <usb install>, <installer>.
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13:57<willdabeast>retrospecatatus, don't I need the internet though? the HD it is going on is fresh, it doesn't have any drivers or am I a complete Idiot
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13:59<willdabeast>retrospectatus It needs to go on usb too, is there a netinst for usb?
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13:59<retrospectacus>yes you need internet.
14:00<willdabeast>retrospectatus, Ok so I can't do that then correct?
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14:01<retrospectacus>you can burn the ISO to usb or CDROM
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14:04<kop>willdabeast: The installer comes with network drivers (although wireless can be an issue, as can the need for non-free firmware to make your hardware work.)
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14:05<willdabeast>kop ok so I can hardwire the laptop, how do I get the firmware?
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14:05<retrospectacus>!tell willdabeast about installer firmware
14:06<willdabeast>retrospectatus ok thank you all :)
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14:10<retrospectacus>willdabeast: good luck! We'll be here if you have any problems :)
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14:13<willdabeast>retrospectatus Thanks :), actually I do need help, I am at the firmware page, and it says to only create my own d-i if I am already running the environment I will want.
14:14<retrospectacus>yep. That's not what you want
14:14<retrospectacus>I think you want to d/l CD1 from the webpage, and get firmware for your wireless device onto a USB stick.
14:15*pparadis gets ready to throw debian on an older laptop for a pseudo-client.
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14:15<willdabeast>Even if I hardwire to the laptop, you think I will need firmware? Or will i be prompted during the installation to install all that
14:16<retrospectacus>willdabeast: if you can use ethernet you *probably* won't need any firmware, just the netinstaller will work
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14:17<willdabeast>retrospectatus Ok, thanks so much I realize I am a complete nub with this stuff, that's why I've chosen to make it a non graphical/strictly terminal server to learn from the bottom up :)
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14:17<pparadis>willdabeast: that is a good approach.
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14:18<willdabeast>pparadis thank you, every time I download ubuntu or something I end up decking out the interface and forgetting about the backstage part.
14:18<pparadis>:)
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14:20<kop>!tell willdabeast about firmware images
14:21<kop>willdabeast: (Really, it's just as easy to follow the instructions in the install guide. YMMV.)
14:21<pparadis>friends don't let friends install ubuntu.
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14:24<willdabeast>kop gotcha thanks m8
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14:24<willdabeast>pparadis hahaha
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14:27<eloystebam>speak spanish?
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14:28<kop>!es
14:28<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
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14:41<EmleyMoor>Anyone seen strange red/blue swap on youtube? youtube-dl gets round it, and other sites seem unaffected, but youtube itself seems to be giving me this odd effect
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14:50<one>Problem with networkmanager-kde. Dont managed any interface
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14:51<kilelme>one: ip a show your interface?
14:53<pfrost>anyone know how i might get a md raid device that supports write barriers in squeeze? I read that 2.6.33 introduced that, but squeeze is running 2.6.32. Also, I'm running a Xen kernel.
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14:53<one>all my networg interfaces manually setup and work with ifconfig ifdown ifup
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14:54<one>but network manager dont see them
14:55<one>network-manager-kde debian test
14:56<EmleyMoor>Oddly enough, youtube videos posted to Facebook play in the right colours!
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14:58<kilelme>one: maybe in that network manager don't enable the networking,, i'm use gnome and has network manager applet .. maybe that disable your interface?
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15:06<retrospectacus>one: iirc if you have an interface configured in interfaces, nm will ignore it.
15:08<one>you mean i must delete my interface and create it with network-manager
15:08<one>?
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15:10<retrospectacus>don't delete the file, just the stanza for that interface
15:10<retrospectacus>or comment it out with #
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15:11<one>i try it
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15:12<law___>Hi. In debian wheezy before the login (getty) on the first console appears, the console is cleared / reset. Can I turn this off in order to see the bootmessages?
15:13<one>but my network-manager dont see my wireless net?
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15:16<rudi_s>law___: Shift-PageUp IIRC
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15:18<retrospectacus>one: you had the wireless working through interfaces file?
15:19<law___>rudi_s, OK, that was too easy. Doesn't really turn it of but does its job perfectly :)
15:19<law___>thx
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15:21<rudi_s>np
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15:24<TobiX>I have an interesting problem here: I'm using debmirror to keep a local Debian mirror, which is missing some i18n files (for contrib/non-free), because they aren't listed in the Release file (and indeed, i18n/Index are missing, too). Is this a known bug and if not, which package should I report it against? ftp.debian.org?
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15:26<sney>TobiX, yes it's known, I saw it being discussed a few weeks ago
15:26<sney>I don't remember the solution/workaround but maybe chealer does
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15:28<vodkaabsolute>I'm unable to get my sound card work on my debian. Using VLC I'm able to reproduce sound changing the output interface to ALSA, but probably I need to find a way to change that value for the entire system
15:28<vodkaabsolute>any hints?
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15:29<sney>vodkaabsolute, if switching the output to alsa works you could remove pulseaudio/jack
15:29<one>it's work. "adduser one netdev", mark manually created interface with # ,reboot. And NM work
15:30<one>thanks
15:30<TobiX>Or just start pavucontrol and check volume levels...
15:30-!-s01 [~s01@dyndsl-095-033-218-056.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #debian
15:30<vodkaabsolute>sney, thanks, i'm going to try
15:30<retrospectacus>one: ah yes netdev group is necessary, nice work :)
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15:31<TobiX>vodkaabsolute: ALSA's speaker-test is always a good, well, sound check ;)
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15:32<vodkaabsolute>TobiX, is it a package?
15:32<vodkaabsolute>TobiX, or you are just saing that I did a good check with VLC
15:33<TobiX>vodkaabsolute: It's in alsa-utils
15:33<vodkaabsolute>anyway, dpkg -l | grep pulse shows that I got few libraries installed
15:34<TobiX>vodkaabsolute: Does "speaker-test -c 2 -t wav" work?
15:34<vodkaabsolute>mmm...let me check
15:35-!-dbyt3s [~dbyt3s@23-105-93-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #debian
15:35<vodkaabsolute>yep, I hear the sexy voice
15:35<vodkaabsolute>;)
15:35-!-tesla893 [~steve@pool-71-190-195-168.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #debian
15:35<vodkaabsolute>nice command
15:35-!-dbyt3s [~dbyt3s@23-105-93-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit []
15:35<vodkaabsolute>basically I need a way to tell my system to use alsa
15:36<vodkaabsolute>instead pulse/jack
15:36<TobiX>vodkaabsolute: Do you have any ~/.asoundrc or /etc/asound.conf setting pulse as the default?
15:37<vodkaabsolute>need to check
15:37-!-uzer [~uzer@41.105.78.198] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
15:38<vodkaabsolute>I don't have both files
15:39<one>debian wheezy - linux where minitube work :)
15:39<Areckx>Using the live boot, I am unable to connect to the internet with wlan0, I can connect using a direct connection to the router, but would like to be able to install Debian without having to move my laptop
15:40-!-marcusbrandt [~marcusbra@temexusip-M71-gacc01.mns.embratel.net.br] has joined #debian
15:40<TobiX>vodkaabsolute: So it seems VLC defaults to pulse if it can find it...
15:40<Areckx>Should I just wait until I can use the direct connection before installing? Or is there a way to connect to a WPA2 through wlan0?
15:40<Areckx>in Debian**
15:40<vodkaabsolute>Areckx, try a traceroute to 1.1.1.1 and tell me how many hops do you see
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15:41<vodkaabsolute>TobiX, probably, I saw with google that asound is used to set drivers priority
15:42<vodkaabsolute>TobiX, do you thonk that deleting pulse and jack libraries ... sound should work?
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15:43<Areckx>30 hops from my Ubuntu 10.04
15:43<Areckx>vodkaabsolute::
15:43<vodkaabsolute>ok....but how many hops has an IP/name associated
15:43<Areckx>vodkaabsolute:: 12
15:44-!-knoppix_ [~knoppix@184.170.91.201] has joined #debian
15:44<vodkaabsolute>ok...show me the last one
15:44<Areckx>I don't know how safe it is
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15:44<vodkaabsolute>it shoud be a public ip address
15:44-!-knoppix_ is now known as Guest85
15:44<vodkaabsolute>just the first octedt then
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15:44<Areckx>oh yeah it does look like a public one(65.210.126.78) 93.280 ms 89.316 ms 90.706 ms
15:45<vodkaabsolute>by the way
15:45<vodkaabsolute>ok..this means your are on internet
15:45-!-one [~one@77.51.70.44] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
15:45<vodkaabsolute>probably you have to set the DNSs
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15:45<vodkaabsolute>more /etc/resolv.conf should show some ips
15:46<vodkaabsolute>IPs
15:46<Areckx>I definitely need to learn more about how IPs work... I want to know what is safe to share and what isn't
15:46<vodkaabsolute>well...this is not very related to linux
15:46<vodkaabsolute>it's another world
15:46<vodkaabsolute>;
15:46<vodkaabsolute>;)
15:46<Areckx>yeah, the net
15:47<vodkaabsolute>did you check resolv.conf file?
15:47<Areckx>What would be some good docs? I'm already reading a couple linux books, and reading the public docs to apache httpd
15:47-!-hele [~hele@212-149-220-248.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #debian
15:48<Areckx>yeah
15:49<Areckx>two nameservers ending 75.75.75.75 and 75.75.76.76
15:49<vodkaabsolute>it depends on what you want to learn
15:49<Areckx>EVERYTHING
15:49<vodkaabsolute>cool
15:49<sney>get the debian administrator's handbook
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15:49<sney>!handbook
15:49<dpkg>The Debian Administrator's Handbook is at http://debian-handbook.info/ and can be browsed, bought and downloaded. It can also can be installed from the debian-handbook package (only in sid; in wheezy soon). Also ask me about <books> <docs>.
15:49<vodkaabsolute>are you able to ping www.google.com?
15:49<Areckx>more specifically, how to run an ftp server and mail server
15:50-!-adi__ [~adi@c-93-184-30-111.customer.ggaweb.ch] has joined #debian
15:50<Areckx>That will come in handy! thanks
15:50<sney>both of those things are in the handbook along with other common services like database servers etc
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15:51<vodkaabsolute>..
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15:52<Areckx>well I'm pretty sure I'll be getting debian installed within the week
15:53<Areckx>still need to get winxp on there, and need to figure how much space I'll need for debian, I want to use it just for administration tasks, minimum, ubuntu for my media, etc, winxp for random games and some programs
15:53<vodkaabsolute>Areckx, I'm not sure your dns ips are correct, you could try changing them to 8.8.8.8
15:53<vodkaabsolute>google dns
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15:55<vodkaabsolute>linux requires a lot of dedications....if you need to do things faster ...I'd stay with microsoft...except for some software that runs better with linux
15:56<scientes>errrrrrrr
15:56<vodkaabsolute>IMO
15:57<sney>a minority opinion here, to say the least
15:58<vodkaabsolute>:)
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16:00<vodkaabsolute>maybe I should also add "and if you don't care to spend some money"
16:01<craigevil>blah, havent ran windows since 2004, and havent missed it once
16:01<vodkaabsolute>and also " the is the ethical aspects"
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16:03<vodkaabsolute>craigevil, is there a solution to connect to an exchange server without using OWA?
16:03<vodkaabsolute>because usually at the office they have an exchange server
16:04-!-b1t [~bit@177.98.3.150] has quit [Quit: Saindo]
16:04<vodkaabsolute>it's just an example
16:05<craigevil>evolution
16:06<gdb>"Without using OWA"
16:06<gdb>the answer is no
16:07<vodkaabsolute>yes, unfotunatly what should be a microsoft interworking problem reflect on linux in this case
16:08<sney>vodkaabsolute, in any case, this is a support channel. philosophical discussions should go to #debian-offtopic.
16:08<vodkaabsolute>ok, sorry
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16:25<stephanie>g
16:25<dvs>h
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16:36<vodkaabsolute>!list
16:36<dpkg>vodkaabsolute: vede http://packages.debian.org/
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16:49<Miguel0n>Hi guys, is this archive enough (/etc/apt/apt.conf.d/10periodic) for having an automatic 'aptitude clean' daily? http://paste.kde.org/478478/
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17:13<tesla893>anybody have good suggestions on open source web hosts that are cheap?
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17:22<retrospectacus>tesla893: yourself ;)
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17:25<decio_crytek>hey guys! I am currently using Ubuntu and I'm happy with it's functionality. Could and What could be better in Debian since I learned Ubuntu is based on Debian
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17:28<decio_crytek>anyone in here? Eco?!?
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17:28<heikkila>yes
17:28<weasel>nobody cares about such questions anymore.
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17:28<weasel>if you're happy with ubuntu, stay with them and have a nice day.
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17:29<retrospectacus>never tried ubuntu myself
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17:29<decio_crytek>well, your nick name really represents what you are-
17:29<decio_crytek>talking about weasel
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17:30<retrospectacus>I suspect he is actually human.... and he speaks the truth
17:30<craigevil>!ubuntu
17:30<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu (irc.freenode.net) instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
17:30<decio_crytek>hey, it was a legit question.
17:31<retrospectacus>decio_crytek: it's a legit answer.
17:31<chealer>decio_crytek: This channel's topic is technical support for Debian.
17:31<decio_crytek>I just wanted to know what's better about Debian. It's a good question and if someone in a good mood could answer it it would be appreciated
17:32<retrospectacus>!tell decio_crytek about why debian
17:32<decio_crytek>!tell
17:33<heikkila>decio_crytek, it is a bot command, but you can "talk" with the bot privately with /msg dpkg <keyword>
17:33<decio_crytek>Okay, one last "technical" question. Does it come with the latest kernel by default
17:34<decio_crytek>?
17:34<retrospectacus>no. debian stable is stable
17:34<decio_crytek>is there a version of debian that comes with it?
17:34<ompaul>I guess you don't understand what stable is, and no not really.
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17:35<heikkila>decio_crytek, you can use backports to get the newest (or at least quite new) kernel in Debian stable
17:35<decio_crytek>Stable I really know what it is. I have a macbook air and an iPhone 4S. I'm used to stable stuff
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17:35<decio_crytek>Okay, bye and thanks for the "support"
17:35<musca>there is an additional repo to get some (few) newer packages you might deserve
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17:36<chealer>decio_crytek: no Debian version comes with Linux 3.3 except for experimental, which is not really a Debian version.
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17:36<decio_crytek>Okay, I'll take a look at it. Bye
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17:36<heikkila>decio_crytek, stable means no new functionality, only security updates
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17:36<ompaul>heikkila: sadly gone
17:36<heikkila>ompaul, kid of the i-generation?
17:37<ompaul>i-kid you not
17:37<nolose33> /server irc.irc-hispano.org
17:37<nolose33>hello
17:37<musca>hello nolose33
17:37<weasel>ompaul: sadly?
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17:38<ompaul>weasel: yes, I didn't get to issue the long line I was about to correct their vision.
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17:38<ompaul>weasel: other than that I could have said !sunday it felt like that :-(
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18:20-!-mode/#debian [+l 505] by debhelper
18:20<bluenemo>hi guys, i want to isolate several ruby on rails web applications and was going for lxc (linux containers). i then found openvz and am now not sure which one to invest time in. what do you prefer?
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18:22<scientes>blue, openvz is largely dropped, both in debian and upstream
18:22<scientes>the openvz upstream was a big pusher of lxc blue
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18:23<scientes>bluenemo, ^
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18:29<bluenemo>scientes, thank you
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18:37<scientes>yeah they only have 2.6.32 kernels
18:38<scientes>for rhel6, and are moving to lxc for rhel7
18:40<Areckx>What is the current status of <discover>
18:40<scientes>!discover
18:40<dpkg>Discover is a hardware identification system based on the libdiscover2 library.
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18:40<scientes>i have no idea
18:40<Areckx>scientes:: I do.
18:40<scientes>Areckx, http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/
18:40<abrotman>Areckx: pretty sure it's dead
18:40<abrotman>or not as widely used anymore
18:40<Areckx>abrotman:: Why is this? I was unaware.
18:41<abrotman>cause it was superceded bysomething betterer?
18:41<Areckx>scientes:: Can I be a part of the Debian Japanese Project?
18:41<Areckx>abrotman:: !
18:41<abrotman>judd: versions libdiscover2
18:41<judd>Package: libdiscover2 on i386 -- lenny: 2.1.2-3; squeeze: 2.1.2-5; sid: 2.1.2-5.2; wheezy: 2.1.2-5.2
18:41<abrotman>so it still exists ..
18:42<scientes>!jp
18:42<dpkg>Japanese speakers: please use #debianjp on irc.debian.or.jp or speak English here.
18:42<scientes>:/
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19:41<locum>buenas
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19:51-!-Brad [izd@cpc4-harb8-2-0-cust814.perr.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #debian
19:52<Brad>Anyone have an idea how i can restrict certain accounts to DNS hostnames?
19:52<Brad>for ssh
19:52-!-Miguel0n [~miguel@202.164.78.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #debian
19:57<petemc>Brad: you can specify user@host via AllowUsers in sshd_config
19:57<Brad>you can? awesome.
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20:03<ricardo>hi.. how i install my all-in-on epson tx135?
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20:27<adrianstudio>hi, anyone know how to get a usb mic working together with another soundcard?
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20:29<scientes>adrianstudio, plug it in?
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20:30<adrianstudio>lmao
20:31<scientes>im serious
20:31<scientes>then just go to the gnome settings and switch your mic to the usb mic
20:31<adrianstudio>yea yea, it works on slackware
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20:31<adrianstudio>it shows up with lusb and -aplay
20:31<adrianstudio>but qjackctl not
20:32<scientes>well thats jack
20:32<adrianstudio>all i see is default soundcard mic inputs
20:32<scientes>jack doesn't support usb IIRC
20:32<adrianstudio>no, becuase system wide too
20:32<scientes>cause that totally not what JACK is about
20:32<scientes>pulseaudio is made for usb
20:32<adrianstudio>it works fine on slackware
20:32<scientes>well JACK realy isn't made for usb
20:33<scientes>usb is way to laggy for the big users of JACK
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20:33<adrianstudio>i use a guitar with usb input on slackware,
20:33<sean>has anyone taken the lpic tests?
20:34<scientes>well why dont you just use pulseaudio instead?
20:34<adrianstudio>just i'm using ubuntu-studio becasue the latency is a bit lower
20:34<scientes>cause pulseaudio is made for usb
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20:34<scientes>yes and ubutu-studeo uses pulseaudio
20:34<scientes>also
20:34<adrianstudio>becasue ardour recording sw uses jack to connect
20:34<scientes>!ubuntu
20:34<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu (irc.freenode.net) instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
20:34<adrianstudio>yes i know, and it doesnt work
20:34<scientes>well that is a bug with ardour
20:35<adrianstudio>no it's not
20:35<scientes>cause AFAIK JACK isn't really supported on usb
20:35<adrianstudio>ardour works great on slack
20:35<abrotman>adrianstudio: how is this a Debian question ?
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20:35<adrianstudio>idk
20:36<adrianstudio>ciao
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21:30<avinash>qpjk8942
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21:49<cthuluh>weak password
21:52<pparadis>hunter2
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22:07<pseudonymous>Is there any way to make vi behave more like VIM ? I'm used to press 'i' to get into insert mode
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22:13<cthuluh>pseudonymous: I'm pretty sure all vi implementations around accept 'i' as 'enter insert mode'
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22:17<pseudonymous>cthuluh: just figured it out 'set nocompatible' makes vi sane. The 'compatible' mode is what makes it a pile of stinking crap
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22:17<cthuluh>you're talking about vim, not vi
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22:18<cthuluh>also, if you have to set 'nocompatible' into your vim config file to get 'i' to enter insert mode, then vim is nothing more than a pile of crap
22:18-!-thunderrd [~thunderrd@119.42.74.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:18<cthuluh>just use nvi
22:18<pseudonymous>cthuluh: maybe, I wouldn't know for sure, but the command works for both my debian server and my QNAP NAS - so that's nice
22:18<pparadis>vim-nox
22:19-!-ali-C [~aswen@aswen.demon.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:19<pseudonymous>cthuluh: well, if I had it my way, I'd just use nano, I don't need anything more for when I'm making conf-edits. But the NAS in particular is a very limited thing. So I had to make vi/vim work somehow :)
22:20<cthuluh>scary anyway
22:20<pparadis>Real Men use edlin
22:20<cthuluh>just ed would be sufficient
22:21<pparadis>Really Real Men use vedit on CP/M
22:22<cthuluh>what about women?
22:22<pparadis>they're smart enough to convince the Really Real Men to do it for them.
22:22<cthuluh>http://xkcd.com/378/ you're way off anyway
22:23<cthuluh>pretty cliché
22:23<pparadis>that's a great xkcd
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22:27<pparadis>cthuluh: still one of faves --> http://xkcd.com/538/
22:27<pparadis>that and this one --> http://xkcd.com/705/
22:28<cthuluh>I like the first one
22:29<pparadis>rubber hose cryptanalysis ftw
22:29<cthuluh>indeed
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22:32<pseudonymous>why on Earth does Debian Squeeze ship py 2.6.x ?
22:32<pparadis>well heck, why not?
22:33<pseudonymous>Well, horribly old ?
22:33<pparadis>squeeze was released on 2011-02-06
22:33<abrotman>pseudonymous: squeeze was released over a year ago, froze 6-9 months before that ..
22:33<pparadis>that ^
22:33<pseudonymous>Yea, I guess I'll have to go testing
22:34<pparadis>and iirc, that was also during a rather "interesting" time wrt 2.x/3 moaning and gnashing of teeth.
22:34<pparadis>not that that's stopped.
22:35<pseudonymous>pparadis: nor will it for years... I once expected to get Python 3.x on most distros just as Arch did by default. But I've come to accept 2.7.. But less than that is criminal :P
22:35<cthuluh>I'd rather be happy with a stable python and stable packages depending on python
22:35<cthuluh>then switch to arch and be happy
22:35-!-XlogicX [~xlogicx@72.44.240.228] has joined #debian
22:36<cthuluh>I wonder how does arch support pre-3.x python packages, though
22:36<pseudonymous>cthuluh: 1) they support that via python2.7 which is installed side-by-side, it's just that the default python binary is 3.x
22:36-!-XlogicX [~xlogicx@72.44.240.228] has quit []
22:36<pparadis>cthuluh: you're talking about a distro where the core team scoffed at the mere idea of package signing.
22:36-!-ErraticAssassin [~ErraticAs@108-64-146-203.lightspeed.clmasc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #debian
22:36<pseudonymous>cthuluh: and no chance of me using Arch... Debian was easy to get going with full disk encryption and SELinux. I'm not leaving :)
22:37-!-ali-C [~aswen@aswen.demon.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:37*pparadis just keeps rolling down the road with perl.
22:37<cthuluh>pseudonymous: just as debian does with installing python-2.6; what's the real problem here?
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22:38<cthuluh>pseudonymous: packages depending on subversions of python are probably to be considered buggy anyway
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22:40<pseudonymous>cthuluh: well, it may have been back then I wouldn't know. But it's absolutely essential to me :) No worries, I'll just go 'testing'
22:40<abrotman>but changing your version of system python may have all sorts of undesired results
22:41<pseudonymous>abrotman: yea, hence the hop to 'testing'. I'm not about to nuke the entire system hehe
22:41<abrotman>well, you might be ;)
22:42<pseudonymous>abrotman: naaaah, we all know Debian Testing is what other distros consider super-duper-stable (exhaggerating slightly but still)
22:42<abrotman>i know
22:42<pparadis>pseudonymous: itym ubuntu ;) /me ducks
22:42<abrotman>well, it is, and it isn't .. depends on the week
22:43<cthuluh>which is a pretty definition of "unstable", funnily
22:43<pparadis>mottos 'r us sez: "ubuntu: it's debian. mostly. except when it's not. cheers."
22:43<pseudonymous>Are you guys saying you run debian stable on a workstation ?
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22:44<pparadis>pseudonymous: i've installed debian 6 on two workstations in the last two weeks.
22:44<jpinx>pseudonymous: on my netbook - yes
22:44<cthuluh>pseudonymous: I am. I also run testing and unstable, but don't think I would advertize it, even though I have my tools working
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22:45<pseudonymous>Are you guys then perfectly fine with *really* old desktop software or is the 'volatile' repos really that good?
22:46<cthuluh>I am perfectly fine with software that just works (c)
22:46<pparadis>i spend my life in terminal windows, regardless of the desktop OS. so i really don't care about super ultra fresh desktop software. for gnome desktops, i'm happy with vanilla squeeze.
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22:47<jpinx>pseudonymous: really old as in -- a few months ?
22:47<pseudonymous>jpinx: while python itself is not really desktop software, it's in 2.6 wheras the most recent is the 2.7.x branch (which itself is not at all that recent)
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22:48<jpinx>pseudonymous: sns is not needed ;)
22:48<pparadis>there's plenty of stuff written for 2.6 that will break on anything later.
22:48<pseudonymous>I don't know, for some things though, I prefer the latest. Like the newest gimp release which *finally* allows for a single window interface. I wouldn't want anything less :)
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22:49<jbad>....
22:49<scientes>well there is also python 3
22:49<jbad>so whats up
22:49*jpinx believes sns is age-related ;)
22:49<scientes>sns?
22:49<jpinx>!sns
22:49<dpkg>Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>.
22:50<pseudonymous>Ok, I definitely suffer from sns :D hahah
22:50<jbad>what the fuk u taalkn about?
22:50<pparadis>(willis)
22:50<scientes>!ssb
22:50<dpkg>First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
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22:51<scientes>there is value on using the latest on your dev machine
22:51<pparadis>is there?
22:51<scientes>helps development move faster
22:52*pparadis disagrees.
22:52<scientes>age doesn't magically make software less buggy
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22:52<scientes>testing and actually fixing bugs does
22:52<pparadis>no, and by the same token freshness doesn't magically make things better.
22:52<jpinx>scientes: I was talking about user age ;)
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22:53<cthuluh>software that you run now has to run both on present and future implementations
22:54<cthuluh>unless you like to rewrite stuff
22:54<scientes> yeah testing software is probably better than people testing
22:54<pseudonymous>I suffer from delusions of grandeur, if you want my stuff, it's your problem if it requires newer software than you have :)
22:55<pparadis>cthuluh: it's really not that simple. when languages change fundamental aspects of, well, the language, it doesn't really work that way.
22:55<pparadis>hence the enormous amount of frustration i've seen in the python community over the last couple of years.
22:55<pparadis>it's not as bad as some people make it out to be, but it's not insignificant.
22:56<pparadis>it could always be worse. it could be php.
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22:56<scientes>hahaha
22:57<cthuluh>pparadis: guess what? 2.7 is there to be supported for a few years :)
22:57<pparadis>oh for sure
22:57<scientes>ubuntu decided that python 2 wont be on the CD
22:57<scientes>only python 3
22:57<cthuluh>pseudonymous: may I tell you that I hope I'll never run software you'll develop with this state of mind?
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22:57<pparadis>cthuluh: and that alone makes lots of other people in the python community violently ill and downright violent :)
22:57<pparadis>(re: your last)
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22:58<cthuluh>poor people
22:58<scientes>ruby fractures over 1.8 and 1.9
22:58<pseudonymous>cthuluh: sure. I mostly do stuff for my own hobbies/needs anyway - and while doing so, I want it to be fun to make. And OLD versions of python or C, are not fun.
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22:58<scientes>so its not an ususual thing
22:59<pparadis>i'm used to getting lots of crap for being a perl guy, but at least i'm still just trucking along pretty happily these days :)
22:59<pseudonymous>pparadis: isn't a major perl upgrade due, though ? So won't you just join us python & ruby fellows ? :)
23:00<cthuluh>pseudonymous: sorry? are you saying you want to write C11 software? :)
23:00<pparadis>haha
23:00<pparadis>perl 5 will essentially never die.
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23:00<pparadis>perl 6 isn't even intended to be a realy successor. it's a different language altogether. 5 will be here for the next couple of decades.
23:00<cthuluh>I think he was just talking about a 5.10 -> 5.16 upgrade
23:01<pparadis>upgrade?!?!?!! we just got .14!!!!! ffs!!!!!
23:01<cthuluh>:>
23:01*pparadis sobs
23:01<pparadis>:)
23:01<pseudonymous>cthuluh: Well, no, but a lot of compilers don't even like C99. I've had to write C89 down to the "thou must declareth thine variables at the start of thine functions, before any assignments" .. Grrr
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23:01<cthuluh>and that's good
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23:06<pseudonymous>So, to get this straight, I can either a)calm my SNS ; b) go to testing ? There's not a middle-way of sorts where I could use a ports-like system to compile select pieces of software to install in /opt or so ?
23:06<pparadis>whoah now
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23:07*cthuluh &
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23:09<pparadis>pseudonymous: you may be interested in something like this --> https://github.com/utahta/pythonbrew/
23:10<pseudonymous>pparadis: certainly, I'm also looking into the processes surrounding backporting debian testing packages to stable. That might work, too.
23:11<pparadis>it may well work, but i'd still be concerned about borking the system up.
23:11<pseudonymous>(though not for python, I'm not enough of an idiot to replace something so basic as that :) no worries)
23:11<pparadis>:)
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23:19<sney>pseudonymous: fwiw, testing is getting very close to the freeze anyway. few transitions remain and it's very usable.
23:20<pparadis>print $client_socket "ERROR_NEVER_GONNA_GIVE_YOU_UP\n"; <-- that's staying in place for production.
23:20<pseudonymous>sney: not bad to hear :) Though I hope I'll have the time to play with backports. It's always nice to have a solid grasp of your distro's package management, I feel :)
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---Logclosed Tue May 15 00:00:36 2012