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#debian IRC Logs for 2012-05-17

---Logopened Thu May 17 00:00:36 2012
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01:15<anon>I have a t60 and i am having trouble getting non free firmware for WiFi / Intel 3945
01:17<jm_>!iwl3945
01:17<dpkg>The iwlwifi Linux kernel driver supports Intel 3945 ABG, 4965 AGN and several Intel 802.11n adapters (WiFi Link, Wireless-N, Advanced-N, Ultimate-N). Firmware is required, ask me about <non-free sources> and install the firmware-iwlwifi package to provide. Supported devices are listed at http://wiki.debian.org/iwlwifi . See also <iwlegacy>.
01:19<anon>what exactly do i type in terminal to get the firmware?
01:20<anon>i couldn't get the non free repository added
01:21<anon>but thats mostly because i don't really know what i'm doing, not because of an error.
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01:21<craigevil>as root, nano /etc/apt/sources.list just add contrib non-free to the end of your debian line
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01:22<craigevil>ctrl+o writes, then hit enter, ctrl+x exits
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01:23<craigevil>aptitude update, aptitude install firmware-iwlwifi
01:23<jm_>wiki has instructions for that too
01:23<anon>i checked it out already, i just needed some help that was more noob friendly
01:25<anon>what file name do i write?
01:25<craigevil>just hit enter
01:26<anon>i typed nano /etc/apt/sources.list
01:26<anon>then ctrl+o
01:29<anon>what should the write look like?
01:29<kilelme>anon: for example : deb http://ftp:debian.org/debian/ squeeze main contrib non-free
01:30<kilelme>add contrib and non-free at the end like craigevil said
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01:40<anon># deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-updates main contrib non-free
01:40<anon>deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ squeeze main contrib non-free
01:40<anon># deb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-updates main contrib
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01:40<anon>I accidently edited the second line too. >_<
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01:41<anon>is there a command to set it all back to default?
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01:44<canurabus>hey all... id like to install debian on an older system (desktop). I see that my motherboard seems to be supported here: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianAMD64/Mainboards, but Im not sure which version of Debian I should install. ie... Do the latest kernels drop support for legacy hardware?
01:44<jm_>no
01:44<jm_>if it's an old system with < 3G of RAM go with x85 release
01:45<kilelme>anon: you not backup it? what you edited?
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01:46<scientes_>jm_, amd64 is way better
01:46<canurabus>define 'old' -- also, its an (ancient) amd64, shoulnt I go for the amd64 reliece?
01:46<canurabus>**release
01:46<scientes_>canurabus, if it supports amd64 install amd64, unless you have a specific reason not to
01:47<scientes_>canurabus, amd64 is better tested at this point
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01:47<scientes_>(and faster to boot)
01:47<canurabus>scientes_, alright -- so just to confirm I should go with squeeze, and not use an older release?
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01:47<scientes_>canurabus, even with 32-bit its totally supported in the current release
01:47<jm_>scientes_: no it's not
01:47<scientes_>with no plans of dropping it
01:47<scientes_>jm_, IMHO
01:48<scientes_>as all developers are using amd64 now
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01:48<scientes_>they are both pretty good
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01:50<canurabus>im a little surprised that the newer versions of the kernel dont ever drop support for older stuff. doesnt that make the kernel crazy big?
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01:52<jm_>distributions compile them as modules, so a few extra MB on disk don't matter that much
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01:57<scientes_>^^^^
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01:57<scientes_>its about 9000X better than how windows works
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02:57<scientes_>if both the old and new files are exactly the same (same md5 dpkg sum), does dpkg remove the old one and rewrite it?
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03:00<jm_>http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ap-pkg-conffiles.html says it is left untouched
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03:06<scientes_>jm_, i'm not talking about conf files
03:06<scientes_>but about program files
03:07<scientes_>ne ways gd
03:07<scientes_>*gn
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03:13<jm_>that's overwritten
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03:24<scientes_>damn
03:24<scientes_>if the md5s are the same it should just leave the old one,
03:24<scientes_>you know, read it and make sure
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04:06<intore>hi, i have a debian server and ubuntu clients. The debian server has been installed in textual mode and the users on the clients have their home directories on the server. After login on the clients using gdm appears the error "could not update iceauthority file". What must be installed on the server?
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04:09<ompaul>intore: it is very bad form to ask on two servers
04:09<ompaul>intore: same people are on both most of the time
04:09<ompaul>intore: and I answered on the other server
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04:10<intore>ompaul, ok, i didn't know were the same people, but i don't think is "very bad". anyway, am sorry!
04:11<ompaul>now back to freenode and tell me if you need more clues than those given
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04:11<ompaul>or you need them explained
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04:25<K0JIbKA>OK, I'm back, thanks to all. Since May 5 there was some kernel update for Squeeze. I had a small system down due to that. My laptop uses proprietary NVidia drivers. I had to move 'Xorg' several times to 'nouveau' and back to 'nvidia' to get screen back. Now this is past. The question is GNOME calls for 45 upgrades available and i just can't proceed with them as both 'Synaptic' and 'apt-get' return ERROR 1 message and abrupt upgrade process. Last time it s
04:26<ryo>sounds like broken dependency or broken updates
04:27<ryo>try -f(orce) option on apt-get update
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04:30<K0JIbKA>ryo: seems so as i got google chrome broken link several times at Synaptic. Since then I'd commented out this repo. but problem is still there
04:31<K0JIbKA>Yes it's still there Synaptic claims 'postinstallation Error 1'. what is that?
04:32<K0JIbKA>or should i perform 'apt-get update' only?
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04:32<adam_>there is something like yellow adhesive cards on desktop?
04:32<adam_>xfce/debian/wheezy
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04:34<jm_>postinst error for what?
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04:38<K0JIbKA>sorry, reboot
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04:41<K0JIbKA>So, how to update Squeeze properely if it knocks screen off on each attempt? For referral her is my '/etc/apt/sources.list' - http://paste.debian.net/169213
04:42<jm_>do it in text mode
04:43<K0JIbKA>jm_: do you mean 'apt-get update' process?
04:43<jm_>K0JIbKA: well whatever is it you need to do
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04:44<K0JIbKA>jm_: OK, by default i use GNOME. how to logoff from it back to shell?
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04:49<jm_>K0JIbKA: just press ctrl-alt-f1, ctrl-alt-f7 (usually) to get back to X
04:50<jm_>you can leave gdm running, just log out your session
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04:58<K0JIbKA>jm_: thanks
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05:01<jm_>K0JIbKA: no problem
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05:27<kop>K0JIbKA: Did you follow the release notes? (Probably not if you are trying to to it from within X.) If you follow the instructions you avoid problems.
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05:32<marian1>moin
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05:51<adam_>there is something like yellow adhesive cards on desktop? xfce debian wheezy
05:53<Gunman1982>post-its?
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05:58<babilen>adam_: Take a look at tomboy, also "apt-cache policy notes xfce4" comes up with xfce4-notes and other can be found with "apt-cache search note".
05:58<babilen>!tell adam_ -about search
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06:11<adam_>http://boinc.berkeley.edu/download.php do you know mirror maybe?
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06:13<adam_>http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=boinc - dont have this in my repo :(
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06:38<dutchfish>in wheezy apt is hold back, if forced to upgrade it wants to uninstall lzma, is that correct?
06:38<dutchfish>(after the new aptitude went in)
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06:53<SynrG>dutchfish: first, see #debian-next for wheezy/sid support (as per channel topic). second, generally we need more details than that in order to answer.
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06:53<dutchfish>SynrG, fair enough, i will ask in there, is that OFTC as well?
06:53<SynrG>yup
06:54<dutchfish>SynrG, thanks!
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07:55<ahoops>dd
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08:02<adam_>anyone use boinc?
08:02<pparadis>i have
08:02<adam_>under debian?
08:02<adam_>how you do it
08:02<adam_>i installed client manager
08:02<adam_>run manger
08:02-!-chitchat [~guest@218-214-24-203.people.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:02<adam_>try add project
08:03<adam_>and can't login
08:03<adam_>http://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/ | Message from account manager: permanent HTTP error
08:03<adam_>dunno what is wrong
08:03<pparadis>yah, i actually just removed two dedicated BOINC VMs because i'm reprovisioning them somewhere else.
08:03<pparadis>i've been hooking BOINC participating machines up to http://www.gridrepublic.org/
08:04<adam_>eee
08:04<adam_>what should i do
08:04<pparadis>have you experienced the same error on other projects?
08:04<adam_>no
08:04<adam_>seti dont work
08:04<adam_>same as boinc web
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08:05<pparadis>i'm participating in seti and poem. later on today i can go ahead and get a new BOINC node provisioned and make sure to record how i do it if it will help you.
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08:06<pparadis>it's probably best if we take that convo off this channel, however, as it's really outside the normal scope for stuff here.
08:06<pparadis>adam_: ^
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08:07<adam_>#debian-boinc
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08:07<adam_>pparadis: ^
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08:12<AgentC>bon jour
08:12<AgentC>:)
08:12<one>bon jour
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08:24<gnugr>AgentC:did you find a solution by using at?
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08:24<AgentC>gnugr: hm, i am going to use mysql to store the job-list, then polling by a short c app for new job-entries.
08:25<AgentC>what name have the package where the mysql c-header includes are inside ?
08:25<AgentC>(my_global.h , mysql.h)
08:26<gnugr>i don't really know anything about
08:27<gnugr>but i never saw a command line starting with at
08:27<AgentC>oh sorry, i see, there's only an option for gcc required.
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08:29<AgentC>ok, i have it, my c app reading full data from the sql job list. this i can use to create the cron-jobs by at and i do not need any root-access by the php-user any more :)
08:29<gnugr>only to remove an active job maybe starting with "atrm"
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08:30<Quta>Hello. is there a command to reset all config files to default on a Debian 2.6.32-5-686-bigmem? or do i need to reinstall?
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08:31<abrotman>Quta: config files for what?
08:31<abrotman>!tell Quta about confnew
08:31<gnugr>AgentC: take a look there to see some usefull examples: http://www.commandlinefu.com/commands/tagged/755/at
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08:34<Quta>abrotman: and gnugr Thanks for the help.
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08:39<wferi>Hi! I'm discovering insserv. Am I right that for example during shutdown /etc/rc0.d/K01* run concurrently, then K02* concurrently, and so on?
08:39<AgentC>gnugr: at is not the prob any more. but what would you do, when more users enter the same time for their at-job, that application which is running can only run once at time, so will be busy until job is done. how to manage, that the 2nd job on same time is waiting until the 1st one is not busy any more ?
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08:41<jm_>wferi: in general they run concurrently based on the LSB header contents, not those numbers
08:41<wferi>jm_: then there is hope, thanks
08:41<AgentC>gnugr: the VoIP software (wav2sip) can only login once at time into the sip-account
08:42<wferi>but what are those numbers then?
08:42<gnugr>AgentC:m8 to be honest i never used at so far or at-jobs, just worked with gcc learning C
08:43<wferi>and is there a way to study the result of the dependency resolution process?
08:43<AgentC>gnugr: maybe, i could timeslice by a sema-file. how to check a file is present within a bash-script ?
08:43<gnugr>AgentC: as for voip you can ask in #debian-voip
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08:44<AgentC>gnugr: ok, but that software is running well, it's more a global handling problem where i try to search the easiest and effectivst way to do
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08:46<AgentC>gnugr: but have an idea, where i do not need "at" , i will try this first, before i ask any more about.
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08:55<one_>hello. /var/log/boot syslog are empty. So it should be?
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08:58<abrotman>!tell one_ about bootlog
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08:59<Onions>Hi there
09:00-!-mode/#debian [+l 529] by debhelper
09:00<Onions>I installed Debian for the first time a couple of days ago
09:00<Onions>So far, it seems great :D
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09:01<Onions>I have a question, for some reason the "debian security" server is not working; should i switch to another mirror?
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09:02<Onions>I mean is it essential, or should i be fine with just the "update" repository
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09:03<devil>Onions: 'not working' is not enough info
09:03<Onions>ok, when i try to get the updates from the security repo
09:04<Onions>it says that it has been down for 4 days, and that i should try to get it fix later on
09:04<devil>Onions: can you show us what line that is in your sources.list?
09:04<Onions>ok, give me a sec
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09:05<Onions>do you want me to paste it here?
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09:05<devil>1 line is fine here
09:05<Onions># squeeze-updates, previously known as 'volatile'
09:05<Onions># Line commented out by installer because it failed to verify:
09:05<Onions># deb http://mirrors.ucr.ac.cr/debian/ squeeze-updates main contrib non-free
09:05<Onions># Line commented out by installer because it failed to verify:
09:05<Onions># deb-src http://mirrors.ucr.ac.cr/debian/ squeeze-updates main contrib non-free
09:05-!-Onions was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use http://paste.debian.net or /msg dpkg paste]
09:06<devil>probs with his math :)
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09:07<Onions>hey devil did you manage to see my last message?
09:07<ubu>Only the first five lines.
09:08<blast007>Onions: apparently you didn't see his. he said 1 line was fine, not >5. ;)
09:08<Onions>I am sorry :P
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09:08<devil>Onions: the one you got kicked for? yes :)
09:08<devil>Onions: these lines do nothing at all because they are commented with a #
09:08<blast007>Onions: use a pastebin for multiple lines. http://paste.debian.net/
09:08<Onions>ok, so, do you know what could be the problem? should i switch to another mirror?
09:08<Onions>ok
09:09<devil>Onions: is that all that is in your sources.list?
09:10-!-mode/#debian [+l 522] by debhelper
09:10<Onions>give me a sec
09:10<Onions>http://paste.debian.net/169254/
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09:11<devil>Onions: and do you have the actual error line?
09:12<Onions>give me a sec
09:12<Onions>It only happens if i uncomment the # lines
09:12<Onions>do you want me to give it a try?
09:13<devil>Onions: why would you uncomment those? read what the system says about them
09:13<devil>you line for security updates is perfectly fine
09:14<Onions>ok then
09:14<Onions>do you want me to apt-get update then?
09:14<devil>at least from the little i know of stable
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09:16<one>Why is bootlogd was disable by default?
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09:16<Onions>http://paste.debian.net/169255/
09:18<SynrG>what are you trying to show us here? i don't know your language (prepend LANG=C to the command before generating output for english speakers, e.g. "LANG=C apt-get update")
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09:20<Onions>Well, actually my questions is if i should uncomment those lines or not.
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09:22<AgentC>gnugr: that version of doing this job might work. i show you when i am finished with work.
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09:23<SynrG>Onions: but why did you paste your apt-get update output? (I presume that's without the lines uncommented). what are you trying to show?
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09:24<Onions>SynrG, that it seems to be updating fine without those lines. According to this site http://www.debian.org/News/2011/20110215 it is not essential to keep the "volatile" repo
09:25<SynrG>exactly
09:25<Onions>ok then
09:25<Onions>Thanks
09:26<SynrG>also, i don't understand why those lines were commented in the first place. a casual look at your mirror shows that archive area exists at your mirror
09:26<SynrG>maybe it was some temporary problem with the mirror?
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09:26<Onions>Yes, when i uncomment them it shows an error message
09:26<Onions>saying that the server has been down for 4 days
09:26<SynrG>if later you really want volatile and your mirror is still broken, choose a different mirror.
09:27<Onions>i just wanted to know if it was "essential" to find another mirror
09:27<Onions>but it does not seem like it
09:27<Onions>Thanks SynrG
09:27<T-Guy>!ops I want my ban to be removed in #debian-kde ! what to do?!
09:27<dpkg>Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, ):, helix, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen: t-guy complains about: I want my ban to be removed in #debian-kde ! what to do?!
09:27<SynrG>np
09:27-!-mode/#debian [+o mentor] by ChanServ
09:27<Maulkin>T-Guy: Don't do that.
09:27-!-mode/#debian [+o themill] by ChanServ
09:27<Onions>Btw, SynrG do you know where can i find information about a release lifecycle
09:27-!-T-Guy was kicked from #debian by themill [You should know better]
09:27-!-mode/#debian [+b *!*@2.176.227.212] by themill
09:28-!-mode/#debian [-o themill] by themill
09:28<Onions>or how long is squeeze going to be supported
09:28<@mentor>He's messing around elsenet as well
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09:28<Maulkin>mentor: Thanks, I'll keep an eye out
09:28<pparadis>Onions: http://www.debian.org/releases/ && http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian#Releases
09:29<Onions>and just another question
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09:30<Onions>My pc has a broadcom card. I installed the driver and everything is working fine and dandy, in case of a kernerl update should i rebuild the driver? or will it update itself?
09:30<SynrG>driver provided by the vendor?
09:30<SynrG>or by debian?
09:31<Onions>yeah, it is the propietary one. I installed it from here http://wiki.debian.org/wl
09:31<pparadis>Onions: if you're referring to this, you will need to recompile it periodically --> http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/broadcom-sta-source
09:31<SynrG>debian drivers are supported via -dkms packages that automatically update when your kernel is upgraded (provided you upgrade your -headers package with it)
09:32<pparadis>there are specific instructions in its README under /usr/src about updating to new versions and such.
09:32-!-domargan [~quassel@93-137-34-51.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit []
09:32<SynrG>vendors providing drivers *should* use this mechanism but often don't
09:32<SynrG>if you're unhappy with your vendor about this, let them know
09:32<pparadis>SynrG: right, in this case it's the latter.
09:33<pparadis>i just had to go that route to get a BCM chip working in someone's laptop a couple of days ago, actually.
09:33<pparadis>broadcom is not famous for making things easy, to say the least.
09:33<pparadis>(years of dealing with their crud)
09:33<Onions>Well i guess that "update-initramfs -u -k $(uname -r)" should ne enough right?
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09:33<SynrG>update-initramfs is only going to rebuild the initramfs with a driver you've already installed.
09:34<pparadis>Onions: when you update your kernel, you basically just need to "make clean" in the src directory and follow the same steps you used to install it the first time.
09:34<pparadis>should take about 2 minutes.
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09:34<SynrG>and kernel updates have a trigger to update-initramfs in any case
09:34<Onions>ok thanks pparadis
09:34<Onions>ok, nice :D
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09:35<Onions>Well thanks to you all.
09:35<SynrG>for certain limited cases of upgrades (no abi change) an update-initramfs may be sufficient
09:35<pparadis>nod, point updates may not require recompiling the driver module. if it stops working, you'll know you want to recompile it ;)
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09:36<Onions>ok thanks
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09:38-!-mode/#debian [+o themill] by ChanServ
09:38-!-mode/#debian [-b *!*@2.176.227.212] by themill
09:38-!-mode/#debian [-o themill] by themill
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09:39<pseudonymous>If I'm installing an application which pulls down a bunch of dependencies - only to remove it afterwards because I don't much care for it
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09:39<pseudonymous>Is there then a way to remove all the packages it pulled along with it ?
09:39<Onions>SynrG, I guess that the stable release does not update the kernel that often, right?
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09:40<pparadis>Onions: kernel updates are fairly common, as security updates and bug fixes get passed down on a regular basis as with any other software.
09:40<devil>Maulkin: the reason for his ban in #debian-kde was: [Wednesday 16 May 2012] [21:47:48] <T-Guy> Do you believe that all muslims are terrorists?
09:40<pparadis>:/
09:40<Onions>ok pparadis
09:41<Onions>well, thanks for all the info
09:41<Onions>bye
09:41<pseudonymous>heavily off-topic, but why does a question lead to a ban ?
09:41*pparadis is guessing that wasn't the only log line that led to the ban, but wasn't there and could always be wrong.
09:41<pseudonymous>( I mean, during a discussion it's nice to know where your adversary comes from. Had he answered yes to that, I would've just dropped the conversation :P)
09:41*themill points towards #debian-offtopic
09:41<devil>pseudonymous: he joined and asked only that. thats heavy trolling afaik
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09:42<pseudonymous>Ah, ok. Then I get it
09:42<pparadis>or that
09:42<pparadis>pseudonymous: are you looking for "apt-get autoremove" perhaps?
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09:43<SynrG>though if you haven't used apt-get autoremove before, do be careful because the autoinstall status may not be what you think it should be if you haven't been paying attention to it
09:43<pseudonymous>pparadis: seems like it :)
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09:44<pparadis>SynrG: nod, always good to read the prompt first.
09:44<AgentC>gnugr: retrospectacus: for which was in the "at" thread involved, here my new solution in case of a small C-app reading jobs from sql-database : paste.debian.net/hidden/0c62eea4 .... for thanks of your help i agree that you can use this source as template for your own things....
09:44<AgentC>it works :)
09:44<SynrG>see aptitude unmarkauto
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09:44<SynrG>you can either aptitude unmarkauto or just 'apt-get install' to unmark things you want to keep
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09:46<one>Anyone know about "kdeinit4 PID: 2094 : Segmentation fault 11" What is this? How can be fixed?
09:46<AgentC>gnugr: retrospectacus: SynrG: compiling by : gcc source.c -o srcbinfile ´mysql_config --cflags --libs´
09:48<pfrost>one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segmentation_fault
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09:49<pfrost>one: the error indicates that a process named "kdeinit4" with the process identifier 2094 experienced a segfault. 11 is the signal number for segmentation fault.
09:49<AgentC>one: segmentation fault means, when an application/module/driver tries to access memory areas which does not depend to it.
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09:50<AgentC>one: mostly a problem of wrong calculated adress-pointers within the application
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09:51<pseudonymous>AgentC: check for double-frees and use of uninitialised pointers. If you do pointer arithmetic, reconsider your app design
09:51<AgentC>one: the cause of this may have many reasons
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09:52<AgentC>pseudonymous: you mean, my source ?
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09:52<pseudonymous>AgentC: yup, pointer arithmetic is tied to the platform in question. And so it's problematic to support across platforms.
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09:53<AgentC>pseudonymous: hehe, memset (A000:0000, FFFFh, 0); ;-)) in any case, black screen ;) or on windows : blue :)
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09:56<AgentC>pseudonymous: i know, in past of many years i did much with assembler, non-os systems etc... there you need this. on todays platforms it's a risk to do pointer-arithmetic
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09:58<AgentC>gnugr: did you saw the source ?
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09:58<one><AgentC> Thank for explanation, but i do not understand how fix this error.
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10:03<AgentC>kilelme: hi
10:03<AgentC>kilelme: check paste.debian.net/hidden/0c62eea4
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10:03<AgentC>kilelme: my "AT" problem solution :=)
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10:08<kilelme>AgentC: sorry .. i don't understand about C language ..
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10:09<kilelme>AgentC: hmmm.. but is great you have solve your solution :-)
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10:11<AgentC>kilelme: hm, but ok. just a short moment and it will work. no sudo required any more, jobs are stored by php in sql database, the 1 app scanning it and setting it on its to to exec-mode within the database. and another program scans the database for entries with exec-mode , does the job and sets the job-entry to delete-mode. :) on this way the VoIP job is only started once, and no AT is needed.
10:11<AgentC>:)
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10:12<themill>so you've rewritten at(1). Yay!
10:13<kilelme>AgentC: :-)... great.. you have done what you want
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10:15<AgentC>themill: hehe ;=) its only dedicated to this wakeup-call websystem ...
10:16<kilelme>AgentC: where can i use it? maybe it help me with my site :-)
10:16<AgentC>themill: i wonder a little about, mysql is really easy to handle, no matter what programming language
10:16<themill>"echo foo | at date" is pretty easy from any programming language too
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10:18<AgentC>themill: yep, but it was the problem in case of root access from php ! my solution is just to have no need for rootaccess by system() function of php
10:18<themill>at doesn't require root access
10:18<AgentC>themill: it does, on my system
10:19<pparadis>really?
10:19<AgentC>themill: dunno why. it's a VPS
10:19<themill>then you're doing it wrong™
10:19<pparadis>at(1) is usable by any user.
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10:20<AgentC>called from php it creates permission errors, unless i do "sudo" with PASSWD check disabled
10:20<themill>www-data is normally explicitly prevented from using at. just change that
10:20<AgentC>themill: i changed it in at.deny , but still same problem, at is called then but it says another error: permission error on signalizing atd
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10:22<AgentC>themill: even if that would work, another problem would be, when at have to handle two phonecalls on the same time, the VoIP software cant run twince at same time cause only 1 sip-login is allowed at same time.
10:22<AgentC>themill: thats why i gone this way by c source
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10:27<AgentC>kilelme: you can use it if you like. ask me if you have questions in handling c language
10:28<kilelme>AgentC: okay.. can i have jabber account?
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10:28<AgentC>what is jabber ?
10:28<kop>AgentC: (IMO mysql sucks. Postgres is a whole lot more sane.)
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10:29<kilelme>like msn or yahoo massenger or skype
10:30<kilelme>maybe in private area?
10:31<kilelme>AgentC: sorry my bad english
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10:37<AgentC>SynrG: themill: now it is save. try www.mitlab.de :) after reg/login you can send wakeupcalls and sms inside germany
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10:41<SynrG>AgentC: by "try", did you mean "try to hack"? as for making an actual call, i have no use for that, personally :/ as for the web-site design, oh the horrors! looks angelfire-inspired
10:41<SynrG>but i'm glad you have it sorted out
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10:44<AgentC>hmpf? maybe ill change the design somewhen, its not as perfect ;=)
10:44<pparadis>what's the site?
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10:44<SynrG>www.mitlab.de
10:44<pparadis>it talked to me when i visited it.
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10:45<SynrG>a cacaphony of fonts, distracting backgrounds and frames
10:45<AgentC>:-) i made also automatic checking email-account after registering. seems to work.
10:45<SynrG>such sites hurt my eyes
10:45<pparadis>it does kinda remind me of the new debian site design --> http://wonder-tonic.com/geocitiesizer/content.php?theme=2&music=3&url=debian.org
10:45<SynrG>i am more likely to stay on and make use of a site designed with a minimalist aesthetic
10:45*pparadis ducks
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10:47<SynrG>funny man
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10:48<ubuntu-studio>ks goods, but sound. any tips for usb audio thatworks out of the box 12.04??
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10:48<ubuntu-studio>audio is dummy :(
10:48<sney>!ubuntuirc ubuntu-studio
10:48<dpkg>ubuntu-studio: This is not the Ubuntu help channel. Please do /server irc.freenode.net and then /join #ubuntu. If you are using XChat, you can right-click the following link and choose connect. irc://irc.freenode.net/ubuntu
10:48<Maulkin>devil: thanks
10:49<devil>yw
10:49<ubuntu-studio>thx for the support.
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10:58<Quta>Enyone know if some version of firestarter will work with Debian dhcp server, i have a hard time to getting it work, seams like the config file from firestarter ends up in /etc/dhcpd.conf.
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11:13<pseudonymous>Would anyone know how I can send all the mails of a local mailbox off to an IMAP server account of mine ?
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11:14<pseudonymous>I've previously used imapsync to synchronize directly between two imap accounts. (Or rather, to move from one to the other). But this time, I need to keep the mails locally for a while before I can upload them to the new service
11:15<pseudonymous>(And I've used 'offlineimap' to copy everything down to a local directory which I can read using 'mutt -f .../backup/INBOX')
11:15<aPpYe>is it possible to monitor changes to dconf in a way that is similar to inotify? I have been using inotify to monitor changes to gtkfilechooser.ini (ShowHidden=true) for a long time, but now the setting is in dconf ...
11:15<AgentC>where can i get an actual factoids sql-file of dpkg-bot ?
11:20<kotlas>pseudonymous: do you have root or any access to the new IMAP server?
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11:27<pseudonymous>kotlas: that's the issue, it does not exist yet. I was hoping I could just sign up for a google business account (they allow you to use their servers for mail) and transfer it there. But I can't very well get on with that until the domain is transferred at which point the existing mail account is out of business
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11:28<themill>AgentC: /msg dpkg factoids; you probably don't really want it though... the signal:noise is pretty weird and it's non-trivial to import it into a db.
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11:58<pseudonymous>Could someone answer me because I'm intrigued. What's the point of having a big ol' backup of your mail using offlineimap or similar tools if there's _NOT_ _A_ _SINGLE_ _PROGRAM_ to get it back up to an IMAP server ? Yay I can always access my mail through mutt locally ?
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12:02<mee>if you can access your mail locally, you can copy it back to an IMAP server
12:02<mee>but also, you'll have *a* copy if all the mail disappears from your IMAP server, that can be very valuable.
12:02<themill>pseudonymous: I've never heard anyone describe offlineimap as a backup tool. If you took any MUA and gave it two IMAP accounts (one for offlineimap and the other for the remote imap server) then you can stick mail back on the server.
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12:03<pseudonymous>mee: see that's what I'm beginning to doubt. I've not found a single viable way of doing so yet. Some mention you may be able to use a mailclient to copy it back to an IMAP server, but I've seen no instructions
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12:04<pseudonymous>themill: Well, I've used imapsync for a straight migration before, worked wonderfully. But I *have* to store the mail locally some time around. Think of my case as near-analgous to "sysadmin wants to wipe the mailserver and install a brand new one". sort of like that
12:04<mee>in GUI MUAs like thunderbird, it's as easy (or annoying) as drag and drop. In mutt I'm pretty sure you just tag the messages and copy them, but I forget the exact procedure
12:05<ompaul>pseudonymous: my rsynced backups of the mail system work for that
12:05<mee>I'd say you're right that there isn't a good tool that does all of this in a seamless fashion. That's why there are startups whose whole business model revolves around this
12:05<ompaul>pseudonymous: providing that you are willing to use the same format mailbox - if not then this is a possible solution
12:06<ompaul>you get a client per user you download all items locally, then you drag and drop those files back to the new mail server
12:06<ompaul>(ugly but hey it works)
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12:06*ompaul has found that telling the person paying they need a new mail server because only insane people do it any other way tends to work
12:07<pseudonymous>ompaul: well, I guess you haven't met the real crazies yet :P
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12:08<ompaul>pseudonymous: if you have any quantity of users then the only way is to replace the full system
12:08-!-david [~david@39.Red-83-57-212.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #debian
12:08<david>ola
12:08<david>ola
12:08<david>ola
12:08<ompaul>pseudonymous: I think I have met all "set type = crazy"
12:09<ompaul>david: if you have a debian question, please ask
12:09<david>no
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12:09<david>you are idiot ok?
12:09<ompaul>david: not ok
12:09<david>ok
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12:11<rafael_bsb>Bom dia! Alguém poderia me ajudar a configurar minha placa sismirage3 671 no debian6?
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12:12-!-romain [~rom@lib59-6-88-165-159-3.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian
12:12<romain>Hi guys I have an issue compiling a C code (in ubuntu 12.04) that I didn't have in de previous version :
12:12<romain>I use the libX11 therefore "LDFLAGS=-lX11" in my Makefile.
12:12<romain>But I get "undefined reference to `X ..." while compiling
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12:13<ompaul>!br
12:13<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
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12:13<romain>Any body had the same problem or an idea to solve it ?
12:13<ompaul>!ubuntu
12:13<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu (irc.freenode.net) instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
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12:14<romain>okey okey
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12:20<romain>They really happen to be less helpful on the #ubuntu chan though
12:21<ompaul>romain: we didn't choose to run ubuntu
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12:35<SynrG>romain: you may want to consider whether you want to run a distro where the community you prefer to interact with is "less helpful" or one that is more.
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12:40<romain>SynrG: Yes you're right, I said they're less helpful just because I didn't get any answer for this specitif problem. It was a sort of joke. Let's face it, the ubuntu community is generally great
12:41<Marillion>romain: why did you here? :)
12:42-!-Miguel0n [~miguel@202.164.78.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #debian
12:42<romain>did I what ?
12:43<Marillion>you understand what i mean
12:43<romain>get an answer. I don't know, I just thought that I will more likely encounter C programers here
12:43-!-grammoboy [~derick@52495F83.cm-4-2b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #debian
12:44<ompaul>how offtopic is it now?
12:44-!-Miguel0n [~miguel@202.164.78.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit []
12:44<Marillion>romain: in fedora too
12:44<Marillion>romain: bad answer
12:44<ompaul>Marillion: how offtopic is it now?
12:44<grammoboy>how do I disable services at boot in debian testing?
12:46<ompaul>grammoboy: update-rc.d service disable did you try that?
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12:47<Gunman1982>romain undefined reference sounds to me like a missing include
12:47<pparadis>grammoboy: http://www.tin.org/bin/man.cgi?section=8&topic=update-rc.d
12:49<ompaul>ah update-rc.d -f service remove
12:49<ompaul>I've another use case in mind
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12:52<grammoboy>ok, seems to work
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12:53<grammoboy>removed britty exim4 speech-dispatcher pulseaudio
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12:58<grammoboy>are there more services I can stop for a simple fluxbox desktop?
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13:01<grammoboy>I have grub timeout set to 0, but I ve multiple OS so it seems to have still 5 sec
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13:02<grammoboy>hmm maybe just set it to 1 sec
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13:06<grammoboy>ah forgot update-grub
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13:15<grammoboy>ok boot is pretty fast atm
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13:15<grammoboy>what kills it is some LSILogic tool from Dell at boot
13:16<retrospectacus>never boot ;)
13:16<grammoboy>costs me 15 sec
13:16<retrospectacus>I usually just leave on or suspend
13:16<grammoboy>bbl
13:16<retrospectacus> 10:16:33 up 52 days, 34 min, 23 users, load average: 0.34, 0.17, 0.10
13:16<grammoboy>bad for the environment
13:17<retrospectacus>heh
13:17<retrospectacus>suspend then
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13:28<grammoboy>disabled SCSI
13:28<grammoboy>:/
13:28<grammoboy>at least it boots now directly!
13:28<grammoboy>kernel dazed and confused but trying to continue
13:28<grammoboy>:/
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13:29<grammoboy>just ignore?
13:30-!-mode/#debian [+l 537] by debhelper
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13:35<grammoboy>hmm my debian boots in about 28 sec
13:35<grammoboy>within a minute I have it auto setup as a drummachine :)
13:35<grammoboy>it's an old pre duocore pc
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13:37<jsaran>can any body help me on a internet problem
13:38-!-babilen [~babilen@babilen.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: leaving]
13:38<blast007>jsaran: we won't know until you ask the actual question ;)
13:41<jsaran>can u help
13:41<blast007>!ask
13:41<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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13:41<jsaran>actually yahoo site is working on windows xp on the same machine and its not working in ubuntu 12.04 ?
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13:42<pparadis>!ubuntu
13:42<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu (irc.freenode.net) instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
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14:49<confrey>hi everybody
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14:50<pparadis>confrey: hi!
14:50<confrey>anybody using gnome 3 ? I'm using it, and I'm seeing dbus-daemon and udisk-daemon using each one 20~22 % cpu about, is it normal?
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14:51<pparadis>i'm still using good ol' gnome 2.
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14:51*retrospectacus too
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14:51<pseudonymous>pparadis: is that available ? I'm weary of the gnome3 hell but I like a lot of the gnome applications
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14:52<retrospectacus>pseudonymous: debian stable installs with gnome2, but downgrading is not supported
14:52<pparadis>nod
14:53<pseudonymous>retrospectacus: oh, I'm on testing now.. Courtesy of my SNS syndrome (thanks Dr. #debian for the diagnose!)
14:54<retrospectacus>too bad. SNS can be debilitating
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14:54<pparadis>pseudonymous: have you given any more thought to running stable and using backports when you really need a newer package?
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14:55<pseudonymous>pparadis: it remains something I'll have to consider. But I'm nearing my exams and I have additional work to do. So.. now is the time where I need a minimal-work approach. And I really, really needed a newer version of a certain application
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14:56<pparadis>well, when you get the time, i would consider it. also, you might pursue the idea of keeping your base install as debian stable, and using KVM, virtualbox, whatever to run crazier stuff in a VM. works for a lot of people.
14:57<pparadis>i happen to love the combo of a VM with freenx for GUI access.
14:57<pseudonymous>pparadis: I'm already running in a VM :) I've gotten tired of the hardware-related issues I've had. And the overhead of wanting to play the occasional game. So I'll change into a minimal Windows setup with every work-related thing covered by Linux VM's
14:58<pparadis>hah, gotcha
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14:58<pseudonymous>(Mind you, I'm oh so very uncomfortable with Windows as a desktop OS.. And the lack of a decent firewall to trust etc etc etc.. But.. here we are )
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15:12<AgentC>kilelme hi
15:12<killer_>hello world)
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15:13<retrospectacus>hello killer_
15:13<retrospectacus>welcome to the world
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15:14<kilelme>!ask
15:14<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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15:20<paulera>exit
15:20<paulera>exit
15:21<paulera>lo
15:21<paulera>lol
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15:46<plugwash>is there a standard tool for removing duplicate lines in a pipeline?
15:46<eightieskhild>hello
15:47<eightieskhild>How would i set a file to exucute at boot
15:47<eightieskhild>its in init.d so woudl that make it a service?
15:47<pparadis>plugwash: uniq(1) ?
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15:47<eightieskhild>running debian6 squeeze 32 bit fyi
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15:48<retrospectacus>eightieskhild: what file?
15:48<eightieskhild>syncrify
15:48<pparadis>eightieskhild: http://www.tin.org/bin/man.cgi?section=8&topic=update-rc.d
15:49<pparadis>if it's a standard-ish init script. you can also chuck stuff into /etc/rc.local for quick and dirty needs.
15:49<pparadis>or add it to cron with @reboot
15:49<plugwash>pparadis, thanks
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15:49<pparadis>different ways, each with their own merits ;)
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15:49*pparadis does run some stuff in screen sessions @reboot with cron.
15:49<retrospectacus>eightieskhild: files in init.d need to be a specific format, you may enable it with ''insserv syncrify''
15:50<retrospectacus>eightieskhild: if it is just a file to run, add it to rc.local or @reboot in crontab
15:50<retrospectacus>like pparadis said :)
15:51<eightieskhild>retrospectacus, i start it with /etc/init.d/syncrify start
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15:51<eightieskhild>so how would i add it to one of those files
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15:51<eightieskhild>i need it to run without loggin into it
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15:52<retrospectacus>insserv syncrify
15:52<AgentC>retrospectacus: did you saw my source ?
15:52<pparadis>eightieskhild: all of the methods described will run things at boot without anybody logging in. and what retrospectacus just said :)
15:53<retrospectacus>or if you are on the "old style" boot method it's ''update-rc.d syncrify defaults'' iirc
15:53<retrospectacus>AgentC: eh? no?
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15:58<eightieskhild>retrospectacus default start?
15:58<eightieskhild>insserv syncrify Deafult-Start
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16:01<retrospectacus>eightieskhild: nope
16:01<retrospectacus>insserv syncrify
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16:01<retrospectacus>if it's complaining read this
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16:02<retrospectacus>!lsb tags
16:02<dpkg>From squeeze onwards, Debian uses a dependency-based boot sequence (see /usr/share/doc/sysv-rc/README.Debian). This requires all init scripts having appropriate headers, so that the correct order of execution can be determined. Scripts like S25libdevmapper1.02 are left over from Sarge and can be deleted; your own scripts will need LSB headers added: http://wiki.debian.org/LSBInitScripts
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16:14<paulera>hi everybody...
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16:15<emilio>hi
16:16<paulera>im kinda newbie aobut how to compile stuff in linux. And have a projects with the following: a folder with source code (.cpp and .h files), and a folder with a makefile. Anyone could helkp me with at least the first steps????? thx!
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16:20<pparadis>paulera: generally speaking, stuff is typically compiled by running a config script if there is one included, then issuing the command "make", and then issuing the command "make install". that said this channel is for debian support, and this is really offtopic.
16:21<paulera>hi pparadis!
16:21<retrospectacus>paulera: usually you can get any software you need from the repositories, no need to compile things
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16:22<paulera>so... this is not a regular linux package.... it it an app developed by a past employee here at my job.
16:22<pparadis>i would recommend learning about how compilers work then.
16:22<retrospectacus>if there's a makefile, try ''make''
16:22<paulera>I did some modifications to the source code, and need to recompile it. i should go to the makefile folder and run make install?
16:23<pparadis>paulera: http://mrbook.org/tutorials/make/
16:23<paulera>pparadis, gonna take a look, thank you!
16:23<pparadis>np
16:26<emilio>+
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16:40<usersdf>hola
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16:42<usersdf>Hi, I used to get my grub Rescatux but not use it, I have the recorded image, can someone help
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16:43<usersdf>do not know how to use the utility grub / install
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17:00<DeepDiver>I'm using dh to build a cmake based package, but it has a custom make target. Shall i use override_db_auto_build or is there a nicer solution like a parameter passed to dh? THX
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17:01<daemonkeeper>overrides are the state of the art. Having that said you want #debian-mentors.
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17:03<DeepDiver>thx
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17:23<qmr>does deb6 default to upstart or sysv?
17:23<DanishRolls>sysv
17:24<DanishRolls>same in testing
17:24<retrospectacus>!upstart
17:24<dpkg>well, upstart is an event-based replacement for the /sbin/init daemon which handles starting of tasks and services during boot, stopping them during shutdown and supervising them while the system is running. http://upstart.ubuntu.com/ See also http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2009/09/msg00003.html
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17:44<aafuentes>i bought a little dreamplug server with wheezy preinstalled... is there anyway to check the integrity of the installation without reinstalling?
17:44<retrospectacus>aafuentes: maybe debsums
17:44<aafuentes>you know, so im sure there was no hidden present :)
17:44<retrospectacus>check netstat and ps for mystery ports/processes :)
17:45<aafuentes>yup, everything seems alright on the outside (process and ports)
17:45<aafuentes>i wanted to make sure about everything else
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17:46<retrospectacus>aafuentes: well debsums will checksum packages' installed files for ya
17:46<retrospectacus>!tell aafuentes about debsums
17:47<aafuentes>i should check pgp signatures first i guess
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17:55<strefli3>On my local machine, how might I get the hostname to resolve to my ip on eth0 rather than the loopback? I can hack it by editing /etc/hosts but I am looking for a permanent solution. Any ideas?
17:55-!-hieroph4nt1 [~azrael@f053006101.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit []
17:56<pparadis>strefli3: do you know what a hostname is, what a FQDN is, etc?
17:56<pparadis>i ask this because i need to know where you are before i can offer some help.
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17:57<strefli3>pparadis, yes, provided by the dhcp server...
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17:58<pparadis>strefli3: if you're obtaining an IP address via DHCP, and the DHCP server is sending a hostname for your machine, you will need to configure your DHCP client to accept and use that hostname.
17:58-!-jespada [~jespada@host114.190-230-219.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:59<strefli3>pparadis, Let me rephrase that, yes I do know what a hostname is. In this particular case, my machine is setup with it's FQDN which is provided by dhcp
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17:59<strefli3>pparadis, So to respond to your last statement, my hostname is in agreement with the dhcp server
18:00-!-mode/#debian [+l 521] by debhelper
18:00<pparadis>strefli3: okay, i'm unclear on what you're trying to do then. could you please add some more info?
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18:02<strefli3>pparadis, Sure thing, I am attempting to run some software (MATLAB) it give me this error: "The current machine (spi) resolves to a loopback address." If I edit /etc/hosts such as [my.real.ip.add spi] rather than [127.0.0.1 spi] I can avoid this problem.
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18:02<retrospectacus>why would that be an error?
18:02<strefli3>pparadis, My issue is that this host is dhcp, which will no doubt give me some problems in the future.
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18:03<themill>debian doesn't set up the hostname to resolve to 127.0.0.1 in any case
18:03-!-ashtonford [~ashtonfor@d207-216-42-197.bchsia.telus.net] has quit []
18:04<pparadis>themill: DHCP assignment will actually result in a ping to your hostname from the same host resolving to 127.0.0.1
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18:04<retrospectacus>I get 127.0.1.1 actually
18:04-!-Lancien [~Lami@95.12.82.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: léve toi et marche.]
18:04<themill>pparadis: ^^ what retrospectacus said
18:04<pparadis>o_O
18:04<retrospectacus>but still... not seeing how this is a problem
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18:04<themill>!why 127.0.1.1
18:04<dpkg>i heard why 127.0.1.1 is http://qref.sf.net/Debian/reference/ch-gateway.en.html#s-net-dns
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18:04<pparadis>themill: it's only a problem if the software "thinks" it's a problem.
18:04<pparadis>which in this case it does.
18:04<strefli3>retrospectacus, matlab works in mysterious ways.
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18:04<pparadis>yep
18:05<pparadis>the answer here can be very simple. first question: do you control the DHCP server?
18:05<strefli3>I do not
18:05<themill>pparadis: sure, but things that are looking at IPs will also generally not read "127.0.1.1" and then write an error message about "127.0.0.1"
18:05<pparadis>okay, second question. can you talk to the person who does control the DHCP server and get him/her to make your DHCP lease basically "permanent"?
18:06<strefli3>pparadis, If that is the solution than yes.
18:06<retrospectacus>he said the error is "... a loopback address"
18:06<pparadis>themill: really, matlab and certain other pieces of software i've run across act poorly when it comes to stuff like this. that actually could be a typo in error output for matlab.
18:07<strefli3>pparadis, And by default, they appear to be permanent.
18:07<pparadis>it really would not be the first time i've seen something that stupid.
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18:07<pparadis>themill: imagine a programmer working on that error code saying "hey, i'll just put 127.0.1.1 (sic) directly in the error message because that's what i know i just detected."
18:07<themill>pparadis: sure. Trouble is there's other stuff out there that will break if you change it
18:07<pparadis>oh i'm not recommending changing it.
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18:09<pparadis>strefli3: if that lease is more or less permanent, you can probably safely add an entry to /etc/hosts in the format "11.22.33.44 hostname.something.example.com hostname" representing your FQDN and hostname as delivered via DHCP, replacing 11.22.33.44 with you actual IP of course.
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18:10<pparadis>the entry for localhost should be "127.0.0.1 localhost.localdomain localhost"
18:10<strefli3>pparadis, That is what I have done.
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18:10<pparadis>well, does that indeed convince matlab that life is good?
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18:10<strefli3>Indeed it does
18:10<pparadis>i'd say life is good then :)
18:11<strefli3>haha, now I can move on to the next error.
18:11<pparadis>and perhaps you might consider dropping a line to the folks at matlab explaining what you've encountered.
18:11<strefli3>They have plenty of bug reports from me
18:11<pparadis>nice
18:12<aafuentes>how can i update my dns record with the current dynamic ip of my connection?
18:12<kb_gt>free online comic book kh43.com
18:12<pparadis>aafuentes: you mean your public facing interenet connection? there are various daemons from stuff like dyndns and whatnot that will do that.
18:12-!-kb_gt [~kb_gt@adsl-89-217-38-150.adslplus.ch] has quit [autokilled: This host triggered network flood protection. please mail support@oftc.net if you feel this is in error, quoting this message. (2012-05-17 22:12:44)]
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18:12<pparadis>kb_gt: i hate comics. they make me cry. why do you want to make me cry?
18:12<pparadis>darn
18:12<pparadis>missed him by a hair
18:13<aafuentes>yup, my home server is inside my network, i need it to update it, so i dont have to memorize my ip everytime it changes :S
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18:14<aafuentes>pparadis, thats just a spam bot so the result come up when somebody transcript this log to a webpage
18:14<aafuentes>sad as it is :/ i hate SEO
18:14<pparadis>yeah, there are scripts that work with things like dyndns and whatnot that will get that done. alternately, if you have a VPS somewhere, you could run nsd or bind or whatever on it and do your own DNS, and communicate with it via a cron job.
18:14<pparadis>aafuentes: oh i know it's 99.9% likely a script, i just like to screw with the odd one that isn't.
18:15<pparadis>i once got a spamming asshole to /quit all by himself within a couple of sick minutes of talking to me.
18:15<pparadis>it just gets worse and worse.
18:15<staticsafe>heh
18:15<pparadis><-- not right in the head
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18:16<aafuentes>i dont know how to make it fail... maybe something like scam spam kh43.com
18:16<pparadis>Server: Apache/2.2.22 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.2.22 OpenSSL/1.0.0-fips DAV/2 mod_auth_passthrough/2.1 mod_bwlimited/1.4 FrontPage/5.0.2.2635
18:17<pparadis>anyhow
18:17<pparadis>back at the rach
18:17<pparadis>ranch, even
18:17<aafuentes>tehehe
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18:31<grummund>Hi, is sysvinit the only package that can supply /sbin/init ?
18:31-!-Jacky [~jalcine@174.141.212.36] has joined #debian
18:32<grummund>...and is dpkg -S <file> the way to check this?
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18:32<retrospectacus>that's the way to check what package providing that file on your system at this moment
18:33<retrospectacus>$ apt-file search /sbin/init
18:33-!-Black_Prince [~Prince@91.191.20.15] has joined #debian
18:34<retrospectacus>reveals that runit-run, systemd-sysv, sysvinit, and upstart all provide that file
18:34<Bogugh>anyone wanna help a dummy?
18:34*abrotman gets the CPR book
18:34<grummund>retrospectacus: thanks for that
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18:36<retrospectacus>!ask Bogugh
18:36<retrospectacus>!ask
18:36<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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18:37*abrotman misses the "don't ask to ask"
18:37<Bogugh>actually, I think I'm good now, found wiki page
18:38<abrotman>hehe
18:38<abrotman>yay, selfhelp!
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18:39<Bogugh>is there some way to know if my computer will boot the hybrid live image from a usb key?
18:39<Bogugh>or if i need the usb-hdd version?
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18:43<retrospectacus>you're wondering if your motherboard BOIS will boot USB - asking google might tell you, or just try it
18:43<abrotman>Bogugh: how old is the computer?
18:43<rcmalleb>oink helo
18:43<retrospectacus>rcmalleb: moo
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18:44<Bogugh>not old
18:45<Bogugh>year old? just reading download instructions it says "This format is offered in case the BIOS of your system cannot handle booting “hybrid” ISO images from USB keys."
18:45<abrotman>if it's a year old, you should be fine
18:45<Bogugh>k, thx
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18:51<grummund>If someone says "add package to the exclude list", does that mean prevent it from being upgraded or uninstall it altogether?
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18:51<abrotman>we'd need context?
18:52<grummund>"Please add the sysvinit package to the exclude list as it is incompatable with OpenVZ."
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18:53<pparadis>grummund: openvz is a terrible idea anyhow.
18:53<pparadis>that's just fate trying to guide you away from it.
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18:53<grummund>hmm, why?
18:54<retrospectacus>openvz is EOL, deprecated
18:54<abrotman>i think people use LXC now
18:54<retrospectacus>!openvz
18:54<dpkg>OpenVZ provides OS-level <virtualization>, creating isolated and secure virtual private servers on a single physical server. <KMS> is disabled in Debian -openvz kernel packages since linux-2.6 2.6.32-22. Deprecated in Debian (BTS #574529) and not supported for <wheezy>; ask me about <lxc>, <kvm>, <xen>. http://wiki.debian.org/OpenVz http://wiki.openvz.org/Installation_on_Debian http://www.openvz.org/ #openvz on irc.freenode.net.
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18:54<pparadis>i'll leave that as an exercise to the googler for the most part, but i've been doing hosting for a long time now. openvz has been the source of more misery and crappy issues than any other virt tech i've ever seen.
18:55<pparadis>in contrast, i really, really like KVM these days.
18:55<grummund>is that from a user or admin POV ?
18:55<pparadis>hosts "specializing" in openvz tend to represent a massive mockery target.
18:55<pparadis>both.
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18:56<abrotman>grummund: it doesn't matter, it's EOL, don't use it
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18:56<pparadis>of course, you're totally free to plunge right in with openvz and see if you like it :)
18:56<retrospectacus>I've used openvz a lot and haven't had any big problems with it
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18:56<pparadis>retrospectacus: it will of course depend on the use case.
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18:57<grummund>i have two openvz vps's running debian squeeze and not had any issues with them
18:57<pparadis>there are cases where it might be totally okay, but a crapload where it just represents a square peg in a round hole.
18:58<pparadis>hey, like i said, use what works for you. i'm simply saying that from the perspective of using something for a diverse range of needs in places where stability really counts, it's been a bad deal in several places.
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19:00<grummund>i think the vendors use RH kernel anyway
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19:01<pparadis>http://librenix.com/?inode=15244 <-- this is a bare bones writeup for openvz vs xen, and isn't completely accurate on the "less efficient" point, but take it for what it's worth.
19:01<pparadis>there's a whole bunch of other (much more technical) docs floating around in the same vein.
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19:01<pparadis>of course, i don't even particularly like xen these days, really preferring KVM.
19:02<retrospectacus>I run openvz containers on two servers (drbd-backed), several machines, mostly webhosting and email, some java stuff like minecraft or whatever, it's all fine
19:02<pparadis>fine for _you_ you mean
19:02<nevyn>pparadis: is that factoid correct that kvm is disabled in debian kernels?
19:02<retrospectacus>and all my clients :)
19:02<nevyn>oh nevermind I misread
19:03<retrospectacus>I guess I'll have to move to LXC once squeeze is done
19:03<pparadis>retrospectacus: sure, hey, like i said... use what works for you. i've just seen some really interesting and ugly stuff come of that sort of setup, and the disadvantages listed on that last link have very real effects in some shops.
19:04<pparadis>as a side note, every time i see the phrase "burst memory" i shudder.
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19:07<grummund>i know openvz requires the vendor to provide install images for each OS, are Xen/KVM like that too or can they utilise stock debian installs?
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19:07<pparadis>gusnan: you can make your own install images, or install with something like virt-manager from an ISO, etc.
19:08<pparadis>your VMs run their own kernel, fully self-contained.
19:08<pparadis>well, they _can_ operate that way.
19:08<pparadis>you can use a host-provided kernel if you want as well.
19:09<grummund>pparadis: which are you talking about openvz/xen/kvm ?
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19:09<pparadis>you can also run pretty much any OS under KVM these days.
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19:09<pparadis>grummund: i was referring to KVM/xen.
19:10<pparadis>i've used KVM to run everything from Linux to BSD to OpenSolaris to Windows.
19:10<pparadis>all on debian.
19:10<grummund>is it possible to say grab the debian netinst image and install from that?
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19:10<pparadis>grummund: here's a fun exercise: google for "debian 6 kvm howto"
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19:11<grummund>pparadis: i don't need to do that
19:11<pparadis>i'll need to update and expand that for debian 7 soon enough.
19:12<pparadis>grummund: i was kinda referring you to what i wrote on the matter.
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19:12<grummund>pparadis: i meant for a vendor supplied vps, can you just grab an image from debian.org and run with that?
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19:13<pparadis>if you're talking about obtaining a VPS from a hosting company, they control the install image.
19:13<pparadis>you don't generally get to install your own OS.
19:13<grummund>ok, yeah that's what i meant
19:13<pparadis>you generally get a minimal install and root access.
19:13<grummund>sure, with openvz. i was just musing if xen/kvm were like that too
19:14<pparadis>yes, it's like that regardless of the virt tech being used.
19:14<abrotman>grummund: i don't see why you're still discussing this .. if you don't believe him, go use openvz .. otherwise, use LXC ..
19:14<grummund>abrotman: excuse me but i'm not disbelieving anyone
19:14<retrospectacus>as a hosting provider, I just un-tgz a stock debian, set it up in VZ, enter it and run a few things, and give it to the client
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19:15<pparadis>yepper, vendors will generally operate on that principle.
19:15<pparadis>retrospectacus: although my base images are bz2 compressed ;)
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19:16<pparadis>i don't do much to my images aside from installing a few extra "nice to have" things.
19:16<scientes>what can i use instead in leiu of beep at the end of some log running process?
19:16<scientes>like a compile
19:16<scientes>so i get notified when its done
19:16<pparadis>a grenade.
19:16*pparadis ducks
19:16<retrospectacus>an email alert?
19:16<retrospectacus>play a song?
19:16<scientes>cause i dont have a sytem speaker for `beep`
19:16<pparadis>yarly, perhaps have it send you an SMS?
19:16<retrospectacus>shutdown?
19:16<pparadis>hahahahaah
19:16<pparadis>nice
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19:16<scientes><retrospectacus> shutdown?
19:16-!-auyantepui_ [~auyantepu@150.187.217.254] has joined #debian
19:17<retrospectacus>to save power! :)
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19:17<pparadis>retrospectacus: ^5
19:17*pparadis goes to get a drink on that note :)
19:17<scientes>i'm right here, i just am trying to multitask
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19:17<scientes>and when you start a compile you tend to forget about it
19:17-!-auyantepui_ [~auyantepu@150.187.217.254] has joined #debian
19:18<scientes>(well maybe the link to remind you by slowing down your computer...)
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19:18<retrospectacus>scientes: xmessage "compiling is done!"
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19:18<pparadis>(ding fries are done)
19:19<scientes>retrospectacus, bash: !": event not found :)
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19:19<retrospectacus>hmm no ! allowed, silly event thingy
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19:20<scientes>retrospectacus, notify-send is far better
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19:20<retrospectacus>bash: notify-send: command not found
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19:21<scientes>retrospectacus, apt-get install notify-bin
19:21<scientes>*libnotify-lib
19:21<scientes>*libnotify-bin hahaha
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19:21<retrospectacus>no thanks. What's wrong with xmessage?
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19:22<scientes>you already have libnotify installed
19:22<scientes>xchat also needs the -bin
19:22<pparadis>man, this is getting so complicated.
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19:44<grimnar>anyone familiar with tmpfs and fstab?
19:45<retrospectacus>grimnar: probably. Just ask your question
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19:46<grimnar>Okay than, I'm using this tmpfs /var/log tmpfs defaults,noatime 0 0 in my fstab right now, and some services cannot start due to permissions and what not
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19:47<grimnar>same goes for /tmp, but no problems there as far as I know
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19:48<pparadis>why do you have /var/log mounted as a tmpfs?
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19:50<pparadis>grimnar: that seems like a phenominally bad idea.
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19:50<grimnar>Hopefully this is not the start of a ssd-write-times war, but I have 16gb of ram doing "nothing"
19:50<grimnar>pparadis: why?
19:50<pparadis>do you not care if the contents of /var/log go away?
19:51<grimnar>No
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20:04<scientes>grimnar, a far better approach to no logs is systemd journal with syslog forwarding turned off
20:04*scientes uses that
20:04<scientes>and then just remove the /var/log/journal folder to use stateless logging
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20:05<grimnar>so, no logs?
20:05-!-themill [~stuart@themill.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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20:07<JshWright>but why not...
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20:25<dsr2000>#stayfrosty
20:25-!-bino [~albino@201-78-208-58.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Quit: @bino28]
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20:31<autoventura>portugues !
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20:33<abrotman>or don't wait ..
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20:55<whizkey>hy guys
20:56<seeS>hello whizkey
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21:06<whizkey>hello
21:07<abrotman>so you said
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21:12<pparadis>what is up party people?
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21:21<rainfyre>heh
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22:36<bitfish>Hi
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23:07<scientes>cat /sys/kernel/debug/tracing/README
23:07<scientes>nice!
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23:12*pparadis veers horrible offtopic for this channel, admits his crime fully, yet still says anybody over 30 should watch this video goodness again --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GNhdQRbXhc
23:12<pparadis>it's just so cinematic and downright awesome.
23:12-!-fisted_ [~fisted@xdsl-87-78-184-207.netcologne.de] has joined #debian
23:12*pparadis says 200 hail wheezys and repents for his sins.
23:13-!-chaltain [~chaltain@cpe-66-69-217-28.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
23:13<pparadis>in my defense, i am on standby while my wife's laptop is busily updating debian packages :)
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23:16<staticsafe>pparadis: im under 30, but nice song
23:16<pparadis>staticsafe: the whole music video is what really makes it :)
23:17<pparadis>videos just aren't made that like anymore.
23:17<pparadis>they don't tell stories like that anymore.
23:17-!-taiten [~TaitenP@118.150.150.37] has joined #debian
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23:18<pparadis>i mean, hell, it's the story of the salvation of a man's soul from being undead to living, light beholding flesh again. yeah, videos like that aren't made anymore.
23:18<staticsafe>indeed
23:18*pparadis mumbles something about apt-get install ryan-seacrest-80s-revival
23:18*staticsafe adds to youtube favorites
23:18-!-chaltain [~chaltain@cpe-66-69-217-28.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:18*pparadis goes to smoke
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23:28-!-rainfyre [~rainfyre@111.sub-166-250-2.myvzw.com] has joined #debian
23:29-!-rainfyre [~rainfyre@111.sub-166-250-2.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: seeya]
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23:36<maxwell>hi
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23:46<rainfyre>0/window 3
23:50-!-headyadmin [~headyadmi@pool-108-23-214-223.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #debian
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---Logclosed Fri May 18 00:00:38 2012