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#debian IRC Logs for 2012-07-12

---Logopened Thu Jul 12 00:00:10 2012
00:00<pparadis>23:43 < birch> scientes, will it work on a software raid 5? <-- maybe he's confused as to what it is :)
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00:11<birch>md raid 5
00:14<birch>pparadis, to prevent unauthorized access to the storage contents of the mdraid 5, with less priority on the mdraid 1 /home
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00:14<birch>meaning nothing important is on /home but if it wouldn't hurt
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00:19<raul>hola
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01:05<[Steven_M]>scientes: Even though squeeze does not support GPT, if I use a 3rd-party copy of gparted (which has been updated with the lasted GPT file type code) to created all my partitions, (including the boot partition) would squeeze be able to be installed on the drive?
01:05<scientes>[Steven_M], you will probably have to use grub from wheezy
01:06<scientes>or rather, i would suggest it
01:06<scientes>but otherwise, yes it will work
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01:09<[Steven_M]>scientes: installing grub from a different version of the distro from the one your running sounds rather tricky. :)
01:09<scientes>it might be in backports
01:09<scientes>!squeeze backport
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01:10<[Steven_M]>scientes: good point :)
01:11<scientes>it wont require updating any libraries, cause it doesn't use them
01:11<scientes>so it would work well as a backport
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01:13<[Steven_M]>I'd need and install CD/DVD with the backported grup on it though
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01:13<[Steven_M]>*an
01:14<scientes>nah, if you chooseexpert install you can choose to not install a bootloader
01:14<scientes>but you could also install it and see if squeeze bootloader works
01:15<scientes>also, if you are truly starting new, i would recommend installing wheezy
01:16<birch>'night
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01:22<[Steven_M]>scientes: I'm worried about weezy from security standpoint though, doesn't testing miss out on some security updates (as opposed to stable which gets them all)?
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01:26<scientes>that is true
01:27<scientes>testing gets them, there is just no assurance on how long it will take
01:28<craigevi1>if its not a server dont worry about it, not like its windows
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02:08<[Steven_M]>scientes: in that case, I think I'll save myself a lot of hassle and just use squeeze with MBR. Thank you for all your info though :)
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02:22<sebastion>hi
02:22<pparadis>hi
02:22<sebastion>pleas help me
02:23<pparadis>!ask
02:23<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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02:23<sebastion>pls help me
02:23<pparadis>sebastion: please ask your question.
02:24<sebastion>i use proxifire in ubuntu i can conect to server
02:24<pparadis>!ubuntu
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02:24<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu (irc.freenode.net) instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
02:25<jeremyb>pparadis: how do i change factoids?
02:25<pparadis>jeremyb: i'd assume a channel operator would be the right person to ask about that. i'm not one of those people. :)
02:25<jeremyb>k
02:25<pparadis>what were you thinking about editing?
02:26<jeremyb>irc.freenode.net -> chat.freenode.net
02:26<jeremyb>and then check !ubuntuirc (mentioned above) and maybe do the same
02:27<pparadis>jeremyb: huh, noted --> http://paste.debian.net/hidden/6370708c/
02:28<pparadis>i'm so accustomed to the A record for most networks being "irc.blah.tld" i never thought to look at that.
02:28<jeremyb>right ;)
02:28<pparadis>:)
02:29<pparadis>!ops please note the above observation from jeremyb
02:29<dpkg>Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, ):, helix, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen: pparadis complains about: please note the above observation from jeremyb
02:29<jeremyb>there's an op named ): ?!
02:29<pparadis>which isn't a complaint at all, of cousre.
02:29<pparadis>s/cousre/course/
02:30<pparadis>jeremyb: good stuff, eh?
02:30<jm_>what change would it made seeing as irc.f.n is a CNAME for chat.f.n
02:30<jeremyb>pparadis: seems like asking for trouble!
02:30<peterS>nothing wrong with calling it irc.freenode.net, is there? I mean, is there reason to believe they will ever delete that alias?
02:31<jeremyb>jm_: just today staff told me that they're phasing out irc
02:31<jeremyb>(and moving to chat)
02:31<peterS>they moved to 'chat' several yaers ago. I still find it hard to believe they would actually drop the 'irc' alias though
02:31<pparadis>peterS: nod, agreed that it's not a case of it being broken per se, but i do agree with the policy of using actual A records wherever possible and avoiding reliance on CNAMEs.
02:32<peterS>maybe we should refer to it as irc.ubuntu.com?
02:32<pparadis>(which are of course horribly abused in general and almost always unnecessary in common usage, and generally should die in a fire unless someone is actually forwarding DNS queries to an off-resolver entitity)
02:32<jeremyb>hahaha, peterS++
02:32<pparadis>peterS: hehe, nice :)
02:35<peterS>still and all, you are right that chat.freenode.net is 'more correct' than irc.freenode.net
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02:35<peterS>!ubuntu =~ s/(irc.freenode.net)/on chat.freenode.net/
02:35<dpkg>OK, peterS
02:36<jeremyb>peterS: what good are those parens?
02:36<peterS>jeremyb: none, that's why I removed them
02:36<jeremyb>!ubuntu
02:36<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu on chat.freenode.net instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
02:36<jeremyb>peterS: i thought it was a regex grouping
02:37<peterS>ha, fooled you. the syntax makes it look like it, but the bot really just implements search/replace
02:37<pparadis>that'd be entirely to regular.
02:37<pparadis>too, even
02:37*pparadis groans at his own joke and admits he's not funny at all. sorry folks. ask for a refund at customer service.
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02:39<peterS>!ubuntuirc =~ s/irc.freenode.net/chat.freenode.net/
02:39<dpkg>peterS: that doesn't contain 'irc.freenode.net'
02:39<peterS>!ubuntu-irc =~ s/irc.freenode.net/chat.freenode.net/
02:39<dpkg>peterS: OK
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02:40<peterS>I'm not privileged with the bot, btw, anyone can do this stuff. but please don't abuse it.
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02:41<peterS>(and do it in /msg if you're doing anything nontrivial)
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02:41<pparadis>good to know. i assumed only ops could alter it. thanks for the tip.
02:42<peterS>well, "anyone" can - I believe the bot's owner does maintain some sort of blacklist for people who do abuse it, so _almost_ anyone
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02:42<pparadis>nod
02:43<peterS>plus it won't talk to you if you don't share at least one irc channel with it. which is only fair.
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02:48<kobzar>hi all
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02:57<xu322>does debootstrap have any authentication like apt-get does?
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02:58<peterS>xu322: 'man debootstrap' to see what its options are. do you mean client-to-server authentication or server-to-client?
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03:00<xu322>--keyring=KEYRING Download signatures for retrieved Release files and check them against KEYRING. By default, Release file signatures are not checked. -- would that mean i can tell it to verify the packages downloaded are genuine and there was no interception or a mirror that was giving me compromised packages?
03:01<peterS>xu322: that is correct. See the files /etc/apt/trusted.gpg and /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/* for the keyrings used by your normal system apt
03:02<peterS>(and the 'sudo apt-key list' command to display what is in those keyring files)
03:03<xu322>i don't seem to have anything in /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/*. does that mean i should use /etc/apt/trusted.gpg? and would that be keyring=/etc/apt/trusted.gpg?
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03:04<peterS>xu322: yeah, --keyring=/etc/apt/trusted.gpg is fine. note that that file is only readable by root. but as I think debootstrap is normally run as root, that shouldn't be a problem.
03:04<xu322>ok, so i see the keys. there aren't many. mainly for squeeze.
03:04<xu322>thanks, you are a big help.
03:04<peterS>no problem
03:04<xu322>:) it's been a while since i got into the core of building a distribution from 'scratch'
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03:06<xu322>humorously my job entails supporting gnu/linux users... so doing stuff like this every once in a while and learning the details really helps.
03:07<peterS>I'm always in favor of people knowing more about how a system works (:
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03:09<xu322>peterS: me too. i run a small company which mainly helps free software users / gnu/linux users on the desktop. i don't do anything really technical. it's largely communicating, organization, and so on. get the developers/manufacturers/chipset vendors etc to release code/manufacture/and then distributions to support it all. it's hard to keep up with the technical side.
03:10<xu322>:) i got a little project i do every so many years... though... and finally i'm probably going to release something of my own. once i figure out how to do it using more modern versions of everything.
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03:11<xu322>last release (not released) i put together was based on 10.04 ubuntu. probably going to use debian now with libre-linux kernel.
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03:12<xu322>i'm a bit concerned about basing off ubuntu given that we need to use gnome for certain features and i want to make sure users can get the security updates for everything.
03:12<pparadis>xu322: why not the standard debian kernel, considering the upcoming wheezy?
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03:12<ompaul>pparadis: cos he wants to be trisquel or some such (who do that already afik)
03:12<peterS>xu322: if you're pinning hopes on gnome, I hope you're following the direction gnome has gone with gnome3. not everyone is happy about it. (I don't use gnome myself so I don't really know what the gnome 2 -> 3 transition looked like, but certainly some users are unhappy.)
03:13*ompaul points to -offtopic :)
03:13<xu322>pparadis: actually the debian kernel would probably be ok too now. this version is going to be based off squeeze at is currently stable.
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03:13<ompaul>then you install squeeze leave out the blobby bits if that's what you want and do some work to create your own delta
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03:13<pparadis>peterS: i'm in the unhappy crowd. then again, given the direction things are moving in there, i've already moved back to other desktop environments based on the trend.
03:14<xu322>pparadis: the reason i was going to go with libre-kernel is that it is a completely free kernel. debian removed i think everything necessary for it to be considered 'free' too by fsf standards.
03:14<peterS>*nod*. just so you're aware of the situation.
03:14<pparadis>xu322: nod, you're not going to find nonfree stuff floating around.
03:14<xu322>well, gnome 2 is what i'll base this off. i'm not sure if gnome 3 has the pieces and i'm not sure debian squeeze has gnome 3.
03:14<ompaul>if the project is going to take you more than six months doing it in wheezy might be more sensible in terms of wheezy may actually manage to be a release
03:14<peterS>squeeze does not have gnome 3. but the next release will.
03:15<peterS>and for those who don't like gnome 3 and really want gnome 2 back, Debian's next release (wheezy) will not make them very happy, I think.
03:15<pparadis>indeed, although it is entirely optional, and other desktop environments are readily available.
03:15<bones_was_here>mate desktop ;)
03:15<pparadis>heh, that won't be in the repos.
03:15<pparadis>i'm thinking more along the lines of lxde/xfce/etc
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03:15<ompaul>xu322: in which case something like kde 4.8.4 is there in wheezy and with three little tweeks it becomes like the kde of old
03:15<xu322>yes- i'm hoping to have the project done in a matter of days. it's basically just a combination of pieces that should make it possible to securely update (encrypted disk, read only partitions, and security updates, plus a chain of trust for all pieces)
03:15<bones_was_here>i'm sure someone will package it for the gnome2 users
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03:16<pparadis>packaging is one thing. they're already doing that. they're trying to get it accepted into debian too, but that takes serious time and it's a contentious issue.
03:16<ompaul>xu322: well watch it for security support cos when wheezy becomes stable and squeeze oldstable you will be at this again within the year
03:16<pparadis>the major point is that we don't want to encourage people to go outside the debian repos, because then what they're installing isn't supported.
03:17<xu322>actually the reason i am going with gnome 2 is because i know there is a GUI for disk encryption through the gnome disk utility.. we can't use truecrypt because there are issues with it from a free software stand point (licensing/updates).
03:17<xu322>ompaul: i anticipate there being a year and a half of updates to gnome 2. is this not correct?
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03:18<xu322>ompaul: i looked at the eof info for squeeze and it appeared to have about a year and a half remaining for support.
03:18<peterS>xu322: yeah, truecrypt is awkward, license-wise. I use tcplay, a reimplementation with a more liberal license, but it doesn't have a GUI and it isn't (yet) in debian.
03:19<nevyn>encrypted lvm doesn't meet your requirements?
03:19<peterS>nevyn: not if I want to read the disks of customers who used truecrypt (:
03:19<peterS>(removable disks, I mean, that they ship to us)
03:19<nevyn>ah well yes.. that's a problem.
03:19<xu322>peterS: this solution i'm putting together is for non-technical users. even the gnome disk utility isn't a great solution. i haven't thoroughly tested any of this yet. i'm only in a learning and preliminary design stage.
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03:20<ompaul>xu322: however you have a working implementation you want to copy
03:20<xu322>nevyn: lvm might but it's the gui part that matters
03:20<xu322>xu322: tails uses gnome disk utility with encryption and that's what i'm planning to copy.
03:20<nevyn>at boot?
03:20<ompaul>with g2 that will happen, and that figure is based on all RC bugs going away in six months if they go away in 2 months then you have 14 months
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03:21<xu322>at boot i'm planning to implement luks if i can. in the middle of testing this solution. not sure if i can get luks to work with lethe (disk freezing program).
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03:21<BLO>howdy
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03:22<peterS>I should get on with uploading tcplay one of these days. I already packaged it for my own use.
03:22<BLO>got a bug and i'm too scared to use the bug database...
03:22<xu322>:) i'm working off a tutorial from ubuntu 7.04 days. it's interesting that things seem to be working so far. little tweaking here and there but it is working.
03:23<xu322>* not tested the final thing will boot yet. just the commands completing successfully with a little modification
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03:24<kobzar>some one know how i can use skype on console ?
03:24<BLO>someone wants to verify a segfault in vsnprintf()? got a code example at hand...
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03:24<peterS>BLO: find a paste site, I'll have a quick look
03:24<peterS>!paste
03:24<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: http://paste.debian.net/ http://pastie.org/ or http://picpaste.com/ for pics. Use wikisend.com for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>.
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03:26<Student>Greegtings Every One :)))
03:26<Androiddawg>Hi Student
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03:26<Student>i was browsing the gnu.org today , and found that debian is no longer in the list of downloadable os
03:26<Student>what really happened?
03:27<peterS>I don't think Debian has been endorsed by the FSF for a long, long time
03:27<peterS>when did you last check? 1997?
03:27<Student>not really
03:27<Student>it was in 2000s
03:27<BLO>http://paste.debian.net/178704/ - ok its a bit lenghty but its a program including main() for direct testing
03:27<BLO>segfault happens in debian-stable 64-bit
03:28<peterS>Student: the FSF do not like the fact that Debian hosts the 'non-free' repository and makes it fairly easy to enable it
03:28<nevyn>Student: they're unhappy about firmware blobs (now fixed) and non-free (not fixed)
03:28<BLO>no segfault on SID-32 or Xubuntu-64
03:28<peterS>Student: but that's not a new issue - the FSF raised this concern back in the 1990s
03:28<nevyn>Student: there is an explanation of this on the fsf page.
03:28<Androiddawg>Debian's crontab did not work from default for me. Using Linux version 2.6.32-274.7.1.el5.028stab095.1
03:28<Androiddawg>Debian 6
03:29<peterS>Androiddawg: that kernel sounds more like Red Hat Enterprise Linux, to be honest
03:29<Androiddawg>good call
03:29<peterS>this is a hosted system, then, where the kernel is controlled by someone else?
03:29<xu322>BLO: there is an effort to document and try and fix free software issues using debian's normal processes.
03:29<Androiddawg>you're right. its very odd that it reports that
03:30-!-mode/#debian [+l 492] by debhelper
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03:30<Androiddawg>anyway, so anacron doesn't process, and so cron.daily and the rest doesn't processes
03:30<xu322>Student: mean that student; there is an effort to document and try and fix free software issues using debian's normal processes.
03:30<Androiddawg>the solution is to uninstall anacron
03:30<BLO>xu322: errm... i'm lost
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03:31<BLO>all so complicated :P
03:31<peterS>Androiddawg: the presence of anacron tells cron not to bother with daily jobs, as anacron will handle them instead. so it sounds like the failure here is that you can't get anacron to process them.
03:31<xu322>BLO: it's for Student. sorry. there is an effort underway to report bugs basically where things aren't quite right. for instance i think the web browser links to non-free plug-ins.
03:31<jm_>BLO: uhh you should be calling va_start
03:31<Androiddawg>I guess. It was a default installation
03:32<BLO>xu322: well this one is hardcore...
03:32<xu322>BLO: the issues that have been fixed in trisquel for instance... but debian still links to them.
03:32<Androiddawg>anacron is not for servers that run 24/7
03:32<BLO>cant even figure out if its related to gcc, glibc or something else...
03:32<peterS>BLO: I can confirm the segfault. but I haven't analyzed it in detail yet, to see whether it might be caused by legitimately undefined behavior, or what
03:33<BLO>but i'd consider vsnprintf() crashing very problematic
03:33<peterS>BLO: lots of standard library functions will crash if you give them bad input. that's what I haven't looked at here yet.
03:33<BLO>like i said, no problem on SID-32 or Xubuntu-64 or FreeBSD, OpenIndiana...
03:33<BLO>or windows XP...
03:33<BLO>just Debian6/64
03:33<Androiddawg>I would have preferred crontab to have run out of the box, and I didn't find any reference to anacron being an issue in any of the forums, so it took a bit of troubleshooting from a number of people
03:34<xu322>BLO: :) sorry. umm hard to explain. but basically firefox is rebranded for debian. trisquel is a different distribtion based off ubuntu. the difference between trisquel and ubuntu is that trisquel has removed the non-free components or anything that links to them. for instance the firefox web browser in trisquel does not link to the mozilla plug-in 'store'/repository.
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03:35<Androiddawg>peterS: I just wanted to share my experience in here, as some other people might not have had the resources I had in troubleshooting this issue, and wanted to share this problem and soultion
03:35<xu322>BLO: mozilla's store houses non-free plug-ins for firefox. that's not acceptable to free software distributions. debian also has made changes to firefox similar to these due to trademark concerns.
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03:35<BLO>xu322: well... does this include changes to gcc or glibc?
03:36<xu322>BLO: it really doesn't make sense to create two separate code bases for trisquel / free distributions and debian when the goals are largely the same.
03:36<xu322>BLO: i'm not sure what gcc or glibc have to do with it.
03:36<pparadis>wait, what distro is this occuring in?
03:37<xu322>pparadis: there are two browsers being used by free distributions. trisquel is using a free browser. debian is using a different mostly free browser.
03:37<BLO>xu322: vsnprintf() is at the root of the root when it comes to library functions..
03:37<pparadis>xu322: are we referring to chrome-browser here?
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03:37<Androiddawg>crontab is designed as being a user friendly daemon that automatically runs scripts. Determining that anacron is a binary that is preventing crontab from functioning is entirely different
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03:37<xu322>pparadis: no, we are referring to derivatives of the firefox browser.
03:37<pparadis>okay, so iceweasel in debian.
03:38<BLO>xu322: no, i'm not (hoho)
03:38<BLO>http://paste.debian.net/178704/
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03:38<xu322>pparadis: i think trisquel uses abrowser. debian uses iceweasel.
03:38<BLO>nothing firefoix there^^
03:38<Androiddawg>and uninstalling anacron as a solution to this problem is just a workaround, seems to me.
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03:39<xu322>BLO: i think i'm lost. maybe we are having two different conversations.
03:39<xu322>lol
03:39<pparadis>i have absolutely no idea what's going on at this point either. maybe this is the kind of thing better suited for the mailing lists?
03:39<BLO>xu322: at least we tried haha
03:40<xu322>BLO: I'm still ranting on about the subject that the user Student brought up in regards to GNU.org not listing debian because debian isn't 100% fsf certified.
03:40<BLO>xu322: as if Debian was hurting any FOSS standards
03:40<pparadis>oh, i try not to pay much attention to FSF viewpoints these days.
03:41<Androiddawg>Can anyone tell me the answer to this question? : httpd's log lists "5 robots" that were logge, which included a porn site, a google bot, and a bing bot
03:41<xu322>BLO: it's not about that. it's just there are debian procedures that need to be followed. the fsf helped create debian in its infancy.
03:41<pparadis>in other words, i'm sick of RMS and have my own incredibly lengthy rants about attempts to redefine "freedom" in the first place, so i try to avoid the entire deal nowadays.
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03:41<petemc>Androiddawg: is that a question?
03:42<xu322>BLO: debian is still very pro-free software. if you compare debian to most distributions debian is near perfect. compared to something like trisquel it's just a little removed.
03:42<Androiddawg>what are these, and should I be conserned? I haven't even configured my Apache server yet, so I don't know how anything could have gotten on my server
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03:42<pparadis>Androiddawg: your server is on the internet. things will find it.
03:42<pparadis>Androiddawg: that's kinda the point of being on the internet.
03:43<xu322>BLO: free software is very important. it's negatively hurting the gnu/linux community. most people just don't care. we're selfish. we want our XYZ and dammed if it is going to hurt the the community or even ourselves going forward.
03:43<Androiddawg>pparadis, I appreciate your insite as to what these bots are, and weather I should be concerned
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03:44<xu322>BLO: meant to say non-free software is negatively hurting the gnu/linux community.
03:44<pparadis>Androiddawg: the IP your server was almost certainly utilized by someone else prior to you, and is probably attached to more than one domain name in various massive databases floating around in the aether. bots stumbling across the site is not a cause for concern, it is normal. you can define how you _want_ them to behave with robots.txt
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03:45<pparadis>that does not mean they will behave that way, mind you. internet-facing services need to be operated with the understanding that unless you specifically restrict access to only certain parties, anybody can and will access those resources.
03:45<pparadis>cheers.
03:45<BLO>xu322: i know the FOSS issue is complicated... i pull my hat to the guys who define/maintain/safeguard all these principles...
03:45<Androiddawg>cool. Thanks. I really appreciate the insite pparadis.
03:45<pparadis>you're welcome
03:46<pparadis>BLO: i just license the code i write under bsd-style licenses and say "well buddy, it ain't gonna get more free than that, and that's the dictionary definition of free, not the RMS reality distortion field, so enjoy this code and have a great day."
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03:47<BLO>so, how do i report a bug the easy way? i mean, someone who might pre-filter things before the alarm bells go off...
03:47<BLO>pparadis: yeah BSD license really rocks. can be understood by a 6-year old
03:48<xu322>BLO: yea- we just need to work together better and pull some weight. we can end up with a much better product. there is way too much fighting when we all basically have the same stupid goals. it's largely how we get there that is in disagreement. i find it humorous. linux mint is a good example. they include a lot of non-free stuff intentionally. it makes it 'easy' today but hard tomorrow. then the lead developer is very fond of the idea
03:48<xu322>of pushing free software. * spoke to him personally * i'm hoping one of these days we can actually get a few major distributions on board to fix some of the issues. i think many of the objections to removing non-free components is there aren't good solutions to the problems people face. my company is working on fixing some of those. now will the lead developers and so forth be satisfied? i don't know. only time will tell.
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03:48<pparadis>BLO: indeed, it's remarkably free of newspeak and attempts to revise definitions that have existing for thousands of years in some attempt to push a political agenda. that's how i like my code, easy to understand and sans-politics.
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03:49<BLO>pparadis: right.
03:50<peterS>BLO: confirmed. I edited vsbug.c to let me specify a buffer size on the command line instead of 'crash' vs 'nocrash'. any size less than the output string length of 76 causes it to crash.
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03:50<peterS>you know, bufsize = atoi(argv[1])
03:50<xu322>BLO: BSD is neat, but i prefer the lets do good for all and not be selfish licenses.
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03:51<Dmitry>need help. When I enter tty, I can't return back to X - I have only black screen, & that's all
03:51<BLO>xu322: Mint is about getting common things to work out-of-the-box that are obsolete... liike MP3 (use ogg or AAC), or flash... merely a container for x264 video + MP3 audio... aaargh
03:51<peterS>BLO: or rather I should say less than the output string length + terminating null. so 76 crashes, 77 does not
03:51<pparadis>xu322: sure, people should pick whatever license fits their personal ideals. i just strongly object to the ongoing BS with RMS constantly trying to claim the GPL is more "free" than BSD-style licenses, because by the rote definition of the word, it imposes more restrictions, and therefore is de facto less free. RMS wants to redefine the word, however, and has spent his entire life trying.
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03:51<xu322>BLO: i'm aware of the goals of mint.
03:51<pparadis>libre is a better term imo.
03:52<pparadis>or something else.
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03:52<BLO>peterS: did i anything bad in re-allocating the buffer ptr?
03:53<BLO>peterS: obviously connected to freeing and the allocating the buffer again...
03:53<xu322>pparadis: you have to be careful. he's not forcing you to do anything. he's encouraging you. if you don't agree with him he moves on. try having a conversation with him. if you don't listen and agree and won't agree he gives up. it's not worth his time or yours. he is merely encouraging people to use a license that encourages freedom. bsd doesn't do that. it may be more free, but it doesn't encourage freedom.
03:53<pparadis>xu322: it would also be fantastic is people actually read and understood the licenses they use for their own software instead of relying on the gibberish others spout off.
03:53<peterS>BLO: reallocating? it looks to me as though it crashes the _first_ time through. nothing to do with your do...while loop.
03:54<BLO>peterS oh wait... powering on the VM...
03:54<pparadis>xu322: i take no issue and make no claim that he's forcing anyone to do anything. the license itself is the actor in this discussion, and the license terms themselves impose more restrictions on redistibution than BSD style licenses.
03:54<xu322>pparadis: it's pretty difficult to read the actual licenses. there are some good summaries though.
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03:54<peterS>BLO: in fact I didn't even notice the do...while at first, as I stepped through with gdb and it only hit vsnprintf the one time
03:54<pparadis>xu322: RMS makes it about him and a political ideal. i make it about what the licenses actually do in terms of acting on rights to perform actions with the code.
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03:55<xu322>pparadis: yes, absolutely. so in a sense the GPL is less free (as far as what developers can and can't do) than the BSD license, but that is to promote freedom.
03:55<pparadis>xu322: nod on the reading bit. i know.
03:55-!-kmshanah1 [~kmshanah@ppp118-210-106-168.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #debian
03:55<pparadis>xu322: which reeks of "this is for your own good, kindly take your pills like the others"
03:55<BLO>peterS: on my box, it calls vsnprintf(), learns that the buffer is too small, raises the buffer size, re-enters the loop and then vsnprintf() crashes
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03:56<BLO>peterS: glad you can at least confirm the crash haha
03:56<xu322>pparadis: he's not forcing you to use the license. his actions are of frustration. he moves on if you argue. it's apparent when people won't listen to him an don't agree.
03:56<pparadis>xu322: if people adopt the GPL because they agree with the premise of the license, i take no issue with that whatsoever. i take massive issue with the attempt to hijack an incredibly important word in the process.
03:56<xu322>pparadis: which word? 'free'?
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03:57<xu322>pparadis: by the fsf definition though something isn't free, and it's why we have 'open source'.
03:57<pparadis>xu322: what's unfortunate is that if what you just said was true we wouldn't be having this conversation. that's not how he's actually behaved on the topic. he believes "forced freedom" is actually a legitimate concept, despite the fact that it violates fundamental logic.
03:57<peterS>BLO: oh, you are right. I'm not sure how I missed this.
03:57<pparadis>he believes in code as an entity unto itself with rights inherent to itself. that's the divide here.
03:58<pparadis>code doesn't have rights. people do. there's the issue, and there's the fundamental break in logic.
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03:58<BLO>peterS: are you somehow connected to Debian bug squeezing guys? would be nice to have someone forward the issue into the right ears..
03:58<xu322>pparadis: alright. well, this isn't a conversation worth having. nobodys time is worth it when everybody is locked into certain positions. what we need to do is focus on the commonalities... but that is for another day.
03:58<pparadis>true :)
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03:59<xu322>:) bye
03:59<pparadis>\o
03:59<Dmitry>guys help me please! I can't go back from tty to X!
04:00<pparadis>ctrl + alt + f7
04:00<Dmitry>no, the matter is complicated
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04:00<Dmitry>When I push it, there is nothing happen & the screen is black
04:00<pparadis>Dmitry: what version of debian are you using, what do you have installed, what did you expect to happen, what happened instead?
04:00<Dmitry>and I need to reboot the whole system
04:00<pparadis>did it work before, what changed, etc?
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04:01<peterS>BLO: aha! something I missed earlier. From the printf(3) man page: "Because they invoke the va_arg macro, the value of ap is undefined after the call. See stdarg(3)."
04:01<Dmitry>no, it didn't workm as I remember
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04:01<peterS>BLO: you cannot call vsnprintf in a loop unless you use va_start / va_end each time
04:01<Dmitry>Linux pavilion 2.6.32-5-amd64 #1 SMP Sun May 6 04:00:17 UTC 2012 x86_64 GNU/Linux
04:02<pparadis>Dmitry: do the function keys on that notebook have a modifier key that you need to press as well?
04:02<BLO>peterS: but the va_list comes from outside... omg
04:02<peterS>BLO: so you probably need to move print_new_stringv inline inside print_new_string, and put va_start / va_end at the top and bottom of the do...while
04:02<Dmitry>pparadis, if I understand you correctly, I have a Fn key
04:02<pparadis>(ponies)
04:02<Zaba>BLO, so use va_copy to save it
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04:02<BLO>aaaaaaah ok......
04:02<Zaba>you can't reuse a single va_list. period.
04:03<pparadis>Dmitry: you might try pressing that in combination with ctrl + alt + [function key]
04:03<Dmitry>pparadis, it won't work
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04:03<pparadis>Dmitry: please tell us exactly what model of notebook you are using.
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04:03<Dmitry>Pavilion dv6
04:04<Dmitry>Debian Squeeze
04:04<peterS>BLO: hope my explanation makes sense
04:04<Zaba>BLO, va_lists are often a source of nasty and funny bugs, the key here is not to assume *anything* about their state apart from what is written in the manpages
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04:05<pparadis>Dmitry: i believe ctrl + alt + fn + [function key] should work on that. are you certain you are holding them all down at the same time?
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04:05<BLO>i always assumed va_list was some kind of pointer...
04:05<Zaba>BLO, I once had a bug in a case similar to yours, except I have two va_lists and was calling va_end in wrong order.
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04:05<Zaba>BLO, bam, random crash on some computers. But not others :)
04:06<pparadis>Dmitry: are you able to access a TTY using the combination from X?
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04:06<pparadis>s/the combination/that combination/
04:06<Zaba>BLO, va_list is something you call va_* functions/macros on. that's all you can assume.
04:06<BLO>Zaba: oh well. tested on half a dozen systems but only keeps crashing on one of them...
04:06<peterS>BLO: yeah, the 'man stdarg' page describes this stuff pretty well when explaining va_copy()
04:06<Dmitry>pparadis, you see, I had Debian before. When I had pushed Alt+F7, it had returned me to X. Now it doesn't - I see only black screen
04:06<Zaba>BLO, but why you can't reuse them is pretty easy to understand, since it gets modified by va_arg calls
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04:07<jm_>I had the same issue with va_start in my code (hence my suggestion to call va_start 30 minutes ago), and it also only happened on 64bit release, not on 32bit so there are some implementation details
04:07<pparadis>Dmitry: have you tried exactly the key combination i asked you to try? also, please answer the earlier question on whether that combination works to access a TTY from an X session.
04:07<Zaba>BLO, and passing it into vsnprintf is essentially the same as calling va_arg a lot of times
04:07<Dmitry>pparadis, I can enter a tty pressing Ctrl+Alt+F1, but I see no text - only black screen and that's all :(
04:07<BLO>i see
04:07<pparadis>what happens if you press enter?
04:08<BLO>thx alot guys
04:08<peterS>no problem
04:08<xu322>http://pastebin.com/Mj2jiPCb <--- at the bottom i get an error about "cp: cannot stat `/ ...... No such file or directory" ; anybody got an idea what changed between initramfs-tools between ubuntu 7 time frame and debian 6 time frames?
04:08<BLO>so again, just me, not a bug
04:08<Dmitry>pparadis, I haven't pressed enter
04:09<Zaba>BLO, it's generally safe to assume that a bug is in -your- code, not the system
04:09<xu322>Is the udev system in debian 6? hmm i wonder how i can work around this. didn't we move to something newer.
04:09<Zaba>only when you've really tried _everything_, exhausted all possible and impossible ideas, and it still doesn't work, you can start suspecting libc/kernel/whatever :)
04:09<BLO>Zaba: shame... i rarely do that because experience tells me its usually me... but this time i got fooled :D
04:10-!-mode/#debian [+l 500] by debhelper
04:10<jm_>xu322: it has udev yes
04:10<Zaba>BLO, and yeah, variable arguments are nasty like that.
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04:12<Dmitry>pparadis, I'll try what you have told & then I'll be back
04:12<xu322>jm_ ok, hmm i deboostrapped a system and am trying to copy /mnt/usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-premount/udev to /mnt/etc/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-premount/ ..... i'm thinking if the udev file isn't exist i can just do touch and create it. but i'm wondering what impact this has. any idea?
04:13<BLO>Zaba: so i need to define a 2nd va_list, va_copy() and thze va_end().... alright, ill be playing around with that and see how it goes...
04:13<Dmitry>pparadis, strange things... now it worked.
04:13<xu322>i wish there was more descriptive explanation of what these commands do...
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04:14<peterS>BLO: that would work, or if it is convenient to move the vsnprintf into the same function that is already doing va_start and va_end, you could just make sure va_start + va_end happen in the same loop as vsnprintf
04:15<peterS>va_start + vsnprintf + va_end in a loop is pretty much equivalent to va_copy + vsnprintf + va_end in a loop, so it's your choice (:
04:15<BLO>peterS: thats not an option as the inner function can also be called from elsewhere
04:15<BLO>peterS: gotta clone myself some :P
04:15<peterS>sure - like I said, if it's convenient. If not, va_copy + vsnprintf + va_end.
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04:18<Dmitry`>pparadis, it still hangs my system
04:19<Dmitry`>it works randomly - sometimes it returns back to X, sometimes hangs the system
04:20<pparadis>Dmitry`: i don't have a good answer for you on this. maybe someone else will, though. if this is a fresh install, you _might_ consider giving wheezy (testing) a shot on it, as it will be the next stable release. that said, please understand that it will not get security updates yet, things may well break, etc.
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04:21<Dmitry`>pparadis, may the problem be in ATI driver?
04:21<pparadis>Dmitry`: if you do want to try to continue troubleshooting this particular issue, logs would be of value (pastebinned)
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04:22<pparadis>Dmitry`: perhaps. are you using xserver-xorg-video-ati or fglrx?
04:22<Dmitry`>fglrx, pparadis
04:23<pparadis>it should be noted that (last i heard) fglrx is broken in wheezy, btw.
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04:23<Dmitry`>damn ati...
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04:24<pparadis>Dmitry`: did you have a particular reason for using fglrx on your laptop, or did xserver-xorg-video-ati work fine for you?
04:24<Dmitry`>pparadis, I just read Debian wiki about proprietary ATI driver, and fglrx is all I found
04:24<Dmitry`>that's why I installed it
04:25<pparadis>did you need to install it?
04:25<Dmitry`>yes
04:25<pparadis>why?
04:25<Dmitry`>without it my compiz don't work :)
04:25<pparadis>understandble. however, please understand that non-free binary drivers are not actually supported by debian itself.
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04:26<Dmitry`>yes, I know. They are supported by the goddamn ATI
04:26<pparadis>nvidia sucks too. they all suck. just in different and fun ways.
04:26<Dmitry`>yeah, true
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04:27<pparadis>you might consider reverting to the free driver to see if the issue goes away. if it does, then you essentially need to choose between the specific functionality you wanted on one side, versus the functionality you wanted on the other side.
04:28<pparadis>and of course i would encourage you to let ATI know how you feel.
04:28<Dmitry`>pparadis, you mean tell ATI the issue?
04:29<pparadis>sure. why not? i can't help but ask, though... very few people actually truly need to switch to TTYs on laptops... is it possible that what you're trying to do could be accomplished in another way?
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04:30<Dmitry`>pparadis, I can do stuff in X terminal, but I just wanted normal ttys
04:30<pparadis>have you considered full screening a terminal?
04:31<Dmitry`>pparadis, I have, of course :)
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04:32<jm_>xu322: sorry no, I don't use initramfs tools/debian kernels
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04:32<pparadis>i'm honestly not trying to be cute here, i'm kinda just saying you're running a proprietary driver and hitting a case i'm pretty a lot of folks wouldn't, and given that the driver isn't supported by debian... :)
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04:37<Dmitry`>pparadis, ok, thank you a lot
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04:38<rham>I need to start an X client in the background in an .xinitrc, and then wait for it to create its window so that I can call xdotool on that window
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04:38<rham>how can I wait on the appearance of an X client window?
04:39<jm_>rham: see if xlsclients can help
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04:48<ivancica> /join #lugons
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04:51<biagio>ciao
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05:24<samson>i'd like to install office to my Studio, how can i start?
05:24<Calinou>why?
05:25<Calinou>(that's my answer to anyone wanting to install office, or photoshop.)
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05:30<devil>samson: are you on about MS Office?
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05:32<ompaul>samson: studio?
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05:35<heikkila>Studio apartment?
05:36<devil>my guress is: Ubuntu Studio
05:36<devil>guess even
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05:37<EmleyMoor>Is there a good surround sound speaker tester in Debian?
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05:38<petemc>EmleyMoor: there is a mkv floating around the internet that does that
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05:41<rham>jm_: that doesn't seem to work; xdotool isn't finding the windows
05:43<EmleyMoor>Hmmm... not finding anything that seems right yet
05:44<petemc>EmleyMoor: i have it on a machine which isnt currently turned on, ill post a link to it later
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05:46<rham>I need to start an X client in the background in an .xinitrc, and then wait for it to create its window so that I can call xdotool on that window
05:46<rham>how can I wait on the appearance of an X client window?
05:47<EmleyMoor>Just tried chan-id.wav and only front L/R is there
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05:49<EmleyMoor>Not sure if the sound card has recognised the 5.1ch headset...
05:51<petemc>i do digital passthru so my amp does all that stuff
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05:52<EmleyMoor>How do I list alsa devices?
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05:53<towo^work>aplay -l?
05:53<EmleyMoor>Those are merely cards
05:53<towo^work>no
05:53<towo^work>thesa are devices
05:53<towo^work>cards would be cat /proc/asound/cards
05:54<EmleyMoor>So where is my plug:surround51?
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05:56<EmleyMoor>It seems I'm just not configured for this...
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05:58<EmleyMoor>How do I configure support for 5.1 channel sound?
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06:01<elcot>hui
06:01<elcot>hui
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06:03<heikkila>hi?
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06:06<jm_>rham: how is it not finding it?
06:06<EmleyMoor>I've managed to list the PCMs but am unsure how to specify them
06:07-!-sinisha [~unix@122-148-161-23.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #debian
06:08<sinisha>need help with connection please
06:08<EmleyMoor>surround51 alone gives Playback open error: -16,Device or resource busy
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06:08<jm_>with aplay it's aplay -D
06:09<EmleyMoor>jm_: It's what comes after the -D I need
06:09<jm_>EmleyMoor: aplay -L lists that - doesn't it?
06:09<EmleyMoor>jm_: Not exactly...
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06:10-!-mode/#debian [+l 507] by debhelper
06:10<EmleyMoor>It lists more than one "surround51"
06:10<sinisha>where do i ask for help?
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06:11<EmleyMoor>sinisha: Depends what you mean by "help with connection" - connection to what? You need to be clear and specific
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06:11<EmleyMoor>surround51:CARD=Creative,DEV=0 gives same error
06:12<sinisha>need help with connection please- since i installed deb6.0.4 my internet drops out every 10-12 hours
06:12<EmleyMoor>sinisha: How is your Internet connection made exactly?
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06:13<sinisha>all i do when that happens is click on the auto eth0 and it reconects again
06:13<EmleyMoor>You're saying your ethernet is dropping?
06:13<sinisha>its wired yes but like twice a day
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06:15<sinisha>EmleyMoor yes it is dropping out but every 12 hours
06:15<EmleyMoor>sinisha: You need to give more information - what's at the other end? Which driver does it use? Is it dropping at the same time every day?
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06:18<sinisha>driver tg3, its connected via netgear modem ipv4 auto dhcp
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06:18<EmleyMoor>It appears that surround51:card=Creative is "busy" - how do I determine why?
06:19<EmleyMoor>sinisha: Is anything else connected to the modem?
06:19<sinisha>yes
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06:19<sinisha>9 other devices
06:19<EmleyMoor>Is that having similar problems?
06:20<sinisha>i have just changed my ipv4 settings to manual address
06:20<EmleyMoor>I repeat, is other kit having similar problems?
06:20<sinisha>and im still connected so that means its working i guess
06:21<sinisha>no
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06:21<sinisha>my 3 laptops and 2 pc and mac never dropuout
06:21<EmleyMoor>sinisha: Have you tried a different port?
06:22<sinisha>no, how do i change it>
06:22<sinisha>thanks for help by the way
06:22<EmleyMoor>Just swap your Debian system's network cable with another one at the modem
06:23<sinisha>ok
06:23<sinisha>duh
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06:23<sinisha>but since i have just changed ipv4 setting to manual, do you think that had something to do with it disconnecting
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06:24<sinisha>i guess i can only wait and see
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06:26<EmleyMoor>sinisha: Too many changes all at once may make it difficult to tell what's happening. Is other kit using DHCP?
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06:27<EmleyMoor>Anyway, how can I "unbusy" surround51?
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06:27<sinisha>yes, every other machine is using dhcp, my win server 2008 is on for days
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06:29<sinisha>how often would the system try to renew the lease on dhcp
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06:29<sinisha>how can i give you some more information
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06:32<EmleyMoor>sinisha: As often as the server tells it
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06:38<abdo906>how
06:38<abdo906>Hello
06:38<abdo906>I need some help for using a cloud and gfs for analisis date
06:39<abdo906>sorry for some mistacks
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06:44<rham>jm_: what do you mean how is it *not* finding it?
06:44<rham>jm_: it's searching for it and not succeeding
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06:45<rham>I start the client, wait on xlsclients to show the client, and then call xdotool to search for the window
06:46<rham>the window is not found
06:46<rham>xlsclients is evidently showing clients that are connected to the X server, not clients with displayed windows
06:46-!-Lancien [~Lami@95.12.82.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined #debian
06:46<rham>I need to wait on the displayed window
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06:47<rham>how can I do that?
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06:52<EmleyMoor>Any 5.1 channel sound capability I have appears to be "busy". How do I fix it?
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06:54<jm_>rham: that makes me thing you are searching for a wrong ID or whatever
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06:57<jawoota_>Whatever happened to Ian and Deborah?
06:57<jawoota_>did they get married what happened?
06:57<rham>jm_: I'm not; I'm searching on the PID of the process and the window class
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06:59<gnugr>jawoota_: /join #debian-offtopic and ask again
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06:59<ompaul>jawoota_: you have discovered what wikipedia is for
07:00-!-mode/#debian [+l 515] by debhelper
07:00<jawoota_>lol
07:00<jawoota_>Thanks gnugr, thanks ompaul
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07:01<jawoota_>ompaul, I can't quote wikipedia in research papers, how can I rely on wikipedia for gossip rumors ?
07:01<ompaul>jawoota_: you are offtopic
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07:12<rham>jm_: what do you mean by "wrong"?
07:12<rham>jm_: what do you think is a "right" ID?
07:14<jm_>rham: the one shown by xlsclients -l
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07:16<rham>jm_: I can't use that; I need to distinguish between two windows of clients with the same class
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07:16<jm_>rham: surely they have different ID-s
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07:17<rham>jm_: I need to map particular windows to particular clients
07:18<jm_>rham: so try xlsclients -l to get all of them (you seem to manage this step just fine), and then xwininfo for all of them and see if there's something in there to help
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07:21<rham>jm_: isn't that what xdotool should be doing?
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07:23<jm_>rham: i'm affraid I am not familiar with xdotool so I can't answer this question
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07:26<rham>jm_: well I've been using xdotool to send key press events to these windows, and adjust their size and position
07:27<jm_>rham: right, so see if the above can help if xdotool supports specifying window ID
07:27<rham>jm_: unfortunately there seems to be no way to provide the window IDs used by xlsclients/xwininfo to xdotool
07:27<jm_>rham: ahh bummer
07:28<rham>so, how can I send key press events to, resize and reposition, the windows specified by xlsclients/xwininfo?
07:28<rham>jm_: any idea?
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07:31<jm_>rham: did you check if xwininfo shows something you can use to identify specific windows? for example, for gkrellm I could use --name with xdotool
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07:32<rham>jm_: no, it doesn't display anything that can be used to determine the window's client's command line
07:32<jm_>rham: how about xprop?
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07:33<rham>jm_: sorry, xwininfo does display something I can use to identify specific windows; it can show the PID
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07:36<jm_>rham: yeah for apps that support it that could help I guess
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07:36<rham>jm_: well yes
07:36-!-alephnull_ is now known as alephnull
07:37<rham>jm_: but I need an appropriate app to send key press events to, resize and resposition windows
07:37-!-Sergio is now known as Guest2926
07:37<rham>jm_: do you know of such an app?
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07:38<ataq>Hey all, I have a USB wifi adapter, its an Atheros AR9271, I'm running Squeeze, any ideas on how to get it going?
07:38<jm_>!AR9271
07:38<dpkg>ath9k_htc is a driver for Atheros AR9271 and AR7010 802.11n USB wireless LAN devices, introduced in Linux 2.6.35. Firmware is required, ask me about <atheros firmware> to provide. http://wiki.debian.org/ath9k_htc
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07:39<ataq>atheros firmare?
07:39<jm_>rham: I have used xte in the past for this, but I don't think this one can do resizing etc.
07:39-!-AgentC [~quassel@dyndsl-085-016-238-036.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:39<jm_>try /msg dpkg atheros firmware
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07:40<ataq>thanks man
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07:49<ataq>How do I get the MAC address of USB Wlan interface, so I can configure it?
07:50<ataq>its not showing up in gnome network manager?
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07:51<heikkila>ataq, try iwconfig as root/sudo, look for HWaddr
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08:20-!-techn1cian [~tehnoden@31.162.112.149] has joined #debian
08:21<techn1cian>Âñåì ïðèâåò
08:21<techn1cian>Ðåáÿò ó ìåíÿ åñòü ïðîáëåìà, êîòîðóþ ÿ îïèñàë òóò http://www.debianforum.ru/index.php?topic=3084.msg27277#msg27277
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08:21<jawoota_>techn1cian, !!!!!!
08:21<techn1cian>?
08:22<techn1cian>english?
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08:22<abrotman>techn1cian: yes, english
08:23-!-grandie [~tom@p57ACF03F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian
08:24<techn1cian>sry )
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08:25<jawoota_>abrotman, stfu he can speak Russian if he needs to
08:25-!-techn1cian [~tehnoden@31.162.112.149] has left #debian []
08:25<abrotman>no, he can't
08:25<abrotman>this channel is an english channel
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08:26<jawoota_>abrotman, I declare you a troll
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08:27-!-mode/#debian [+o abrotman] by ChanServ
08:27-!-mode/#debian [+q *!*@178-223-42-186.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] by abrotman
08:27-!-mode/#debian [-o abrotman] by abrotman
08:27<abrotman>jawoota_: this channel is an english channel, do not encourage otherwise, take a time out please
08:27<jawoota_>abrotman, you going to KICK BAN me?
08:27-!-mode/#debian [+o abrotman] by ChanServ
08:27-!-jawoota_ was kicked from #debian by abrotman [you should know better]
08:27-!-mode/#debian [+b *!*@60-240-128-213.static.tpgi.com.au] by abrotman
08:28-!-mode/#debian [-o abrotman] by abrotman
08:30<dvs>I guess that answers that question
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08:35-!-sudosu [~sudosu@2E6B7826.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #debian
08:36<sudosu>hi
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08:37<h4n>hi, can someone help me read the paragraph under "Option 1", in http://people.freedesktop.org/~zhen/cedarview/README.cedarview I do not understand if it says I can use VGA and HDMI from under X. (I have a netbook where i use this gma500 driver and can run X, but I do not understand how to use VGA out) (I am totally new to linux/debian)
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08:38*Calinou welcomes jawoota_ to his club
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08:41<rham>I solved the problem
08:41-!-reza [~reza@2.181.96.225] has quit []
08:41<rham>rather than waiting for xlsclients to declare that the client windows were active, I used xdotool
08:42-!-rainy1 [~Maciej@77-252-223-226.ip.netia.com.pl] has quit []
08:42<rham>(not seeing the wood for the trees there)
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08:45<AgentC>hi, hm, the pSX playstation emu runned before very good, but now with a new fresh system i get errors : http://pastebin.de/27911 at end of execution it says : segmentation fault
08:45<AgentC>(GLib) is there something missing ? a library or else ?
08:46<SynrG>AgentC: probably want to take your non-debian-software-related question to upstream
08:47<EmleyMoor>I have just connected a 5.1 headset to my sound card, but cannot get it to work in more that two channels. If I try speaker-test -Dsurround51:CARD=Creative -c 6 -t wav then I get repeated Playback open error: -16,Device or resource busy. What do I need to do?
08:47<SynrG>or else use pcsx, which i believe is in debian
08:49<AgentC>SynrG: ;=) ok
08:49<SynrG>AgentC: one of the hazards of not "debianizing" an upstream package from a third-party source is that when you upgrade dependencies of that package, they *will* break
08:49<SynrG>it's not a matter of "if", but "when"
08:49<AgentC>SynrG: i see
08:50<SynrG>so if you want your not-in-debian packages to continue to work properly even as you upgrade, consider learning to package them
08:50<SynrG>(but is a topic mostly outside the scope of this channel)
08:51<SynrG>still, lots of doc exists to help you learn those skills
08:52<SynrG>that being said, i have to wonder why, if pSX is a worthwhile piece of software, it is not already in Debian. probably the reasons that rule it out would rule out me wanting to use it
08:53-!-mode/#debian [+o abrotman] by ChanServ
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09:15<AgentC>SynrG: i understand, the debian pckage pcsx works as PS1 good. thats enough. ok, in future i'll be more carefull with 3rd party sotware.
09:16<EmleyMoor>Is there a good channel for alsa support?
09:16<devil>EmleyMoor: there is #alsa, but you normaly need patience there
09:16<EmleyMoor>devil: Well, it's here or there and I'm totally stuck
09:19<SynrG>EmleyMoor: i have observed that as a group, we are collectively versed in a limited range of alsa troubleshooting scenarios and can provide some level of support, but the "hard" problems probably get punted to #alsa
09:19<SynrG>EmleyMoor: you want to just state what your problem is?
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09:20<EmleyMoor>I have just connected a 5.1 headset to my sound card, but cannot get it to work in more that two channels. If I try speaker-test -Dsurround51:CARD=Creative -c 6 -t wav then I get repeated Playback open error: -16,Device or resource busy. What do I need to do?
09:21<SynrG>maybe you have an access conflict with something else grabbing the card. pulseaudio perhaps?
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09:25<EmleyMoor>SynrG: You were right... now, how do I prevent this contention?
09:26<SynrG>EmleyMoor: not sure. on a sid system with the default sound device with pulseaudio running, -t wav -c 2 works for me
09:26<SynrG>no contention
09:27<EmleyMoor>SynrG: 2 channels was fine... it was only more that was failing
09:27<SynrG>hmm
09:27<SynrG>beyond my expertise to debug. you probably do want #alsa (or else any support forum / mailing list they may have)
09:28<SynrG>using squeeze, btw?
09:28<EmleyMoor>squeeze, yes
09:28<SynrG>it might simply be that with your kernel and/or version of pulseaudio, there are bugs/limitations solved in wheezy ...
09:29<SynrG>if you have access to a wheezy box (or live image?) you could compare
09:29<SynrG>not sure if expending the effort will teach you something you could use on squeeze, though.
09:30<SynrG>(well, i suppose if it comes down to something for which there is already a backport, it might)
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09:44<EmleyMoor>Hmmm... looks like that's sorted. Now, I am not getting any sound in amarok... why would that be? I can't see much to select except pulse
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09:49<EmleyMoor>Is there a good free game in Debian with surround sound?
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09:58<arand>EmleyMoor: I think nexuiz has the ability to do it, not sure if it's easy to get it working though...
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10:04<EmleyMoor>arand: Daren't download that at this time - after 6 maybe
10:04<higher>Hi can anyone help me with hard drive issues?
10:04<arand>EmleyMoor: Game data there is huge, true.
10:05<higher>i was told of this software i can download that i might be able to recover my hard drive with
10:05<higher>but i cant remember what its called
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10:05<higher>any offers?
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10:06<devil>higher: what is 'recover'?
10:06<devil>higher: testdisk maybe?
10:06<higher>it wasnt test disc
10:06<devil>what is it supposed to do?
10:06<higher>basically my harddrive is corrupt i think
10:07<higher>i cant reformatt it
10:07<higher>or install on it
10:07<devil>why not?
10:07<higher>it says theres windows xp on it and i need to press R to recover
10:07<devil>any error messages?
10:07<devil>press R where?
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10:07<higher>when i first boot the netbook up
10:07<devil>to what OS?
10:08<EmleyMoor>higher: Is this a machine with Debian on, or one you want Debian on?
10:08<higher>right now im using mepis
10:08<devil>higher: then you need to use their support facilities
10:09<higher>but i will be putting the normal debian on once i can sort the hard drive out
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10:09<higher>well mepis is sort of debian
10:09<devil>higher: what software telly you to use R to recover?
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10:09<devil>higher: sort of means nothing
10:09<higher>lol
10:09<devil>i am serious
10:09<higher>its close enough
10:10<devil>no, it's not.
10:10<higher>man you guys are fussy
10:10<abrotman>how is this related to Debian ?
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10:10<higher>im only asking for a bit of help
10:10<abrotman>This is a Debian support channel
10:10<higher>i know
10:11<devil>higher: and you don't even answer questions
10:11<higher>and its the closest suppot channel i can find to mepis!
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10:11<higher>i would answer questions if people gave me the chancee instead of fussing over the channel im asking the questions in
10:11<abrotman>higher: use #mepis on irc.freenode.net
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10:50<saulotoledo>Next debian release changed the file "/usr/share/perl5/Convert/ASN1/_encode.pm", from libconvert-asn1-perl package with "use strict". This simple breaks smbldap-tools package. Can I simple comment that line or there are something who needs it?
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10:51<EFP>I was wondering, is there anything similar to Wubi for Debian?
10:52<babilen>EFP: AFAIK no
10:52<EFP>:(
10:52<EFP>cheers babilen
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10:52<babilen>EFP: There is a Debian installer that works in Windows, but that will merely start the installer in a different way.
10:53<EFP>Yeh, it doesn't seem to function like Wubi
10:53<EFP>Nor does it work in Windows 7
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11:05<AgentC>is pulseaudio in the possiblity to send the running stream up to a shoutcast server ?
11:06-!-Dmitry [~dmitry@176.102.4.37] has joined #debian
11:07<babilen>AgentC: yes
11:08-!-[HaldriK] [~haldrik@190.251.83.6] has joined #debian
11:08<AgentC>cool, do you know a good HOWTO for make usage of it ?
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11:09<babilen>AgentC: Just google for "pulseaudio shoutcast" or "pulseaudio shoutcast sink" or ...
11:09<AgentC>thank you
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11:19<padippist> i have this problem with virtual box "Kernel driver not installed (rc=-1908)
11:19<padippist>The VirtualBox Linux kernel driver (vboxdrv) is either not loaded or there is a permission problem with /dev/vboxdrv. Please reinstall the kernel module by executing
11:19<padippist>'/etc/init.d/vboxdrv setup'
11:19<padippist>as root. If it is available in your distribution, you should install the DKMS package first. This package keeps track of Linux kernel changes and recompiles the vboxdrv kernel module if necessary.
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11:27<padippist>i have problem with my virtualbox
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11:28<abrotman>it tells you what to do
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11:29<padippist>no i get this error Kernel driver not installed (rc=-1908)
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11:30<sney>,versions virtualbox-dkms
11:30<judd>Package: virtualbox-dkms on i386 -- squeeze-backports: 4.0.10-dfsg-1~bpo60+1; sid: 4.1.18-dfsg-1; wheezy: 4.1.18-dfsg-1
11:30<sney>padippist: what debian version?
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11:31<barou>barou_dia2010@yahoo.fr
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11:33<padippist>i am using the squeeze relese and my virtual box version is 4.1.18 r78361
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11:35<sney>padippist: so where did you get virtualbox? 4.1.18 is not available in squeeze
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11:36<padippist>from oracle site
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11:47<AgentC>babilen: i found an introduction (pulseaudio/shoutcast) http://www.alex.ballas.org/2010/11/08/stream-any-pulseaudio-application/ but when i try this, it says "WARNUNG: Fehlerhafte Leitung: pulsesrc0 konnte nicht mit audioconvert0 verknüpft werden" and i do not know what is missing. a search in google for this message failed by 0 results.
11:47<AgentC>babilen: can you give me a hint ?
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11:48<h4n>hi, when building a linux kernel for the cedar trail atom, what cpu should i choose?, i took "atom", but now it seems i can only access one core (of the two in the chip). dont know if choosing "atom" caused this or if something else did ....
11:48<babilen>AgentC: No, but there are pulseaudio specific channels
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11:49<AgentC>babilen: freenode?
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11:50<AgentC>i found
11:50<AgentC>thnx
11:50<Dmitry>I wanna install a free driver for my video card. if I have Radeon HD 4500, which driver should I install?
11:50<babilen>!tell Dmitry about radeon
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11:51<babilen>Dmitry: That driver is used by default if you don't use a xorg.conf (which is the default) -- Also read "/msg dpkg empty xorg.conf" and "/msg dpkg xorg.conf.d"
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11:52<sney>Dmitry: you will need the firmware-linux-nonfree package for full function, though.
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11:53<Dmitry>babilen, there are 2 drivers, as I know - Radeon & RadeonHD, am I right?
11:53<sney>radeonhd is deprecated and only included as an extra option in squeeze. by default you will use radeon
11:53<Dmitry>sney, I am not sure in that - this package doesn't contain firmware for my card
11:55<sney>are you sure? it might be under a codename instead of HD 4xxx
11:55<Dmitry>hmmm.... how do I know it?
11:56<sney>look up your gpu on wikipedia
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11:57<Dmitry>aha, ok
11:57<babilen>Dmitry: You installed firmware-linux-nonfree didn't you? IIRC a HD 4500 falls into the R700 category for which you need radeon/R700_rlc.bin
11:58<babilen>,file radeon/R700_rlc.bin
11:58<judd>Search for radeon/R700_rlc.bin in squeeze/i386: firmware-linux-nonfree: lib/firmware/radeon/R700_rlc.bin
11:59<babilen>Have fun!
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12:00<Dmitry>sney, yes, I need :)
12:00<Dmitry>I installed it
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12:00<Dmitry>I have 4530 card, though lspci says I have 4500
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12:08<SynrG>Dmitry: the only thing that matters with lspci is the pciid. the text does not precisely identify it. so, 'lspci -nn' to get that
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12:10<Dmitry>so I removed fglrx and have xserver-xorg-video-radeon installed. Now how should I change the xorg.conf? It containes stuff about proprietary fglrx, which isn't in the system anymore
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12:11<Dmitry>I used "aticonfig --initial" command before and it changed my xorg.conf
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12:37<proby>hi , am having an annoying problem here . I am owning a dell inspiron 1545 , intel core 2 duo 2.2 ghz , a 5200 rpm hard drive , 4 gigs Ram , ati hd 4300 512 mbs but debian is running slowly on it : with 20 seconds to boot , 15 seconds to run compiz , 10 seconds to open any app for first time , 3 seconds to show the command prompt line on gnome terminal and i want to fix those problems and know the main cause of it , but i don't know from where to start ! HELP
12:37<proby> !
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12:41<abrotman>20 seconds to boot sounds okay
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12:42<abrotman>proby: tried hdparm ?
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12:42<proby>no
12:43<proby>i will se how to use it
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13:05<tumulte>lad
13:05<tumulte>non
13:05<tumulte>sorry
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13:05<tumulte>wrong field
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13:12<nardev>hello, i'm having problems with flash player. non-free works ok with iceweasel but no meter what i do and where do i put "libflashplayer.so" it doesn't work in firefox 13
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13:12<craigevil>don't 'put' it anywhere, firefox should pick up on the iceweasel plugins
13:14<nardev>i did reinstall it but again, same issue :(
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13:22<crimsonmane>Hello. I have a question about the LiveUSB downloads at http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/amd64/bt-hybrid/ What exactly is "standard" vs the others (gnome kde lxde xfce rescue)?
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13:27<gsb>hi, i downloaded firefox from mozilla.com. when i run firefox like "./firefox" i get error message "bash: ./firefox: No such file or directory".
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13:29<gnugr>!tell crimsonmane -about standard
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13:33<gnugr>gsb:why don't you use iceweasel which is firefox on debian (iceweasel=firefox)
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13:34<gsb>gnugr, i wanted to use latest firefox, iceweasal is at v10
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13:35<gnugr>gsb:well, you can run it from your /home though
13:35<gsb>gnugr, its not about firefox/iceweasal i just can't understand why bash is saying that there is no such file, where there is
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13:35*AgentC throw greetz to gnugr
13:35<crimsonmane>gnugr: thanks... but that actually confuses me more... if i'm going to run and possibly install one of these debian spins, does that change your answer to what "standard" is?
13:35<gsb>gnugr, i am running it from my home only. extracted the zipped file to my home directory and trying to run firefox executable there
13:35*gnugr waves AgentC
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13:37<gnugr>crimsonmane:did you read what "standard" includes?
13:37<crimsonmane>gnugr wants you to know: i heard standard task is a "task" that should be installed on all machines during the installer stage. It installs packages that are important, required and standard (i.e. "aptitude install ~pstandard ~prequired ~pimportant"). For a list of packages, see http://wiki.debian.org/tasksel . Also ask me about <tasksel>. Packages in the <essential> set are always installed.
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13:38<gnugr>crimsonmane:what you want more to learn about?
13:38<retrospectacus>gsb: what says ''file ./firefox''
13:38<blast007>gsb: you can get a newer iceweasel from here: http://mozilla.debian.net/
13:38<crimsonmane>perhaps you didn't fully understand my question... i'll repost it
13:38<crimsonmane>Hello. I have a question about the LiveUSB downloads at http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/amd64/bt-hybrid/ What exactly is "standard" vs the others (gnome kde lxde xfce rescue)?
13:39<gsb>retrospectacus, file ./firefox says its a 32 bit ELF executable, i am on 64 bit machine. so thats the reason?
13:39<gnugr>crimsonmane:i send you that message to read what "standard" includes
13:39<crimsonmane>and it was vague
13:40-!-mode/#debian [+l 531] by debhelper
13:40<retrospectacus>gsb: yep
13:41<blast007>gsb: it'd be better to get a newer iceweasel the proper way instead of trying to do what you're doing
13:41<gnugr>crimsonmane:that means you don't have to use tasksel during installation
13:41<crimsonmane>each of the iso's located at the link are individual installers, so what is "standard"? i really don't think you understand me.
13:42<gsb>blast007, i will do as you said now
13:42<gsb>retrospectacus, i am amazed mozilla doesn't offer 64 bit firefox
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13:46<retrospectacus>crimsonmane: it only includes the "standard task" which dpkg told you about. Does not include any desktop env. and extra tools like the others
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13:47<retrospectacus>gsb: I don't know anything about that but you can get iceweasel 15 from m.d.n (choose squeeze, aurora and follow the directions)
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13:48<gsb>retrospectacus, blast007, Thank you so much
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13:48<retrospectacus>sure thing
13:48<crimsonmane>I'll rephrase the question. Each ISO at http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/amd64/bt-hybrid/ is named after a desktop environment or "rescue." what then is "standard?"
13:48<sney_>crimsonmane: also, the live images are really for testing debian and/or recovery purposes, if all you want is an installer then you should get the netinst or one of the CD1
13:49<retrospectacus>crimsonmane: it only includes the "standard task" which dpkg told you about. Does not include any desktop env. and extra tools like the others
13:49<sney_>crimsonmane: it's a basic Debian install with a command line environment.
13:49<retrospectacus>crimsonmane: I said that earlier, maybe you missed it
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13:49<crimsonmane>ya i got dc'd sry
13:49<crimsonmane>so you're saying these images are not for installing debian?
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13:50<sney_>they can be used to install debian.
13:50<sney_>But if installing is the only thing you want, then they are overkill.
13:50<crimsonmane>they come pre-set with apps, and i like that
13:50<crimsonmane>and it's the only way i've ever installed a linux
13:51<sney_>the installer "tasks" that retrospectacus was telling you about are also pre-set collections of apps that you choose during the install. But it's your choice, of course.
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13:52<crimsonmane>forgive if this statement sounds rude, but how is it my choice when the only choices i'm aware of are the desktop environments as listed at the link i gave?
13:53<sney_>!ig
13:53<dpkg>The Installation Guide for Debian Squeeze (6.0) can be found at http://www.debian.org/releases/squeeze/installmanual . See also <errata> <firmware images> <installer firmware> <release notes>.
13:53<crimsonmane>the install guide is nothing more than a checklist
13:53<crimsonmane>i've read it
13:53<crimsonmane>http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/apa
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13:53<sney_>well, I meant that it's your choice whether to use the installer or the live image.
13:53<crimsonmane>i don't understand the difference
13:54<retrospectacus>crimsonmane: you can install "standard" and then use apt-get to install whatever exact software you like. There are also "tasks" which include bundles of related software
13:55<sney_>The installer asks you some questions and uses the answers to create a fresh installed system. The live image basically copies itself to your hard drive. Live installs tend to be a little bigger. SynrG could probably elaborate on the finer differences
13:56<crimsonmane>i know how to use apt-get, and the problem with going standard i suppose is there's no way of knowing beforehand the package names
13:56<Ysgrammor>apt-cache search
13:56<SynrG>live images are designed to not dick around with package selection
13:57<SynrG>they are prebuilt with a few simple recipes that install what the standard d-i would've installed
13:57<crimsonmane>d-i?
13:57<SynrG>debian-installer
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13:57<Ysgrammor>if you mean during install stage you can use the web package search on another machine
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13:57<SynrG>so in theory you get exactly what you would've had if you installed from a standard installer. it's just how the packages get there that differs.
13:58<crimsonmane>alright
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13:58<crimsonmane>i'll stay away from standard then
13:58<SynrG>but live-installer, because it installs what's on the image, limits your choices about what to install
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13:58<crimsonmane>there's too many choices in the first place
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13:58<SynrG>many users are not interested in choices at install time, so this is largely considered no big sacrifice
13:59<SynrG>live-installer otherwise asks you exactly the same questions as the standard installer
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14:00<SynrG>that is, you get to choose how to partition your system, choose your language, etc. etc.
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14:02<crimsonmane>alright. i'm confident i know the difference now. moving on to another point... i tried to boot debian-kde livedvd before. all md5sums matched. it seems every linux flavor encounters a panic. last night i got Mint's Debian Edition to boot on USB, but after installing and updating it had the same panic. any ideas?
14:02<retrospectacus>hardware problem
14:02<sney_>do you remember what the error was about?
14:03<sney_>but yes, hardware problem. could be as simple as a loose connection or as bad as a broken motherboard
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14:03<crimsonmane>it can't be a hardware problem because it doesnt happen in older versions. although the panic says cpu corruption of some kind.
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14:04<AgentC>PulseAudio streaming to shoutcast server works now on me, thnx to babilen, for all which want to try same, here a simple bash script for serving : http://pastebin.de/27920
14:04<sney_>mint's thing is currently based on wheezy, I think, so it's quite different from any of the squeeze images
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14:04<crimsonmane>yes but i did try to debian squeeze
14:04<crimsonmane>i tried pclos-kde also
14:05<crimsonmane>ubuntu's new crap did it too
14:05<sney_>ok, so it fails on anything with a 2.6.32 kernel or newer? that's kind of everything these days
14:05<crimsonmane>i have the squeeze dvd sitting here beside me. it was a week ago
14:06<crimsonmane>i had installed a few kernels for no other reason than learning how. the kernel ending in .8 is the only one that was apparently working for me. yet on many websites they all say toshiba satellite c655 is "working perfectly" with everything. as if i'm the only one.
14:06<sney_>my personal next step as a datacenter technician would be to open the case, re-seat EVERYTHING, then try again
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14:06<retrospectacus>crimsonmane: I worked on a PC that was crashing (windows) and the only thing that would run was a gparted disk... I ended up RMAing the (6-core) cpu. My theory was that one or more core was broken and gparted only used one
14:07<crimsonmane>interesting
14:07<crimsonmane>let's put more info out for you... i have been using mint 11 gnome for the better part of the last year without issues.
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14:08<crimsonmane>i don't recall 32/64 bit... this laptop is 64 bit.
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14:08<sney_>uname -m and file /bin/bash would tell you
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14:09<crimsonmane>it's too late now. i've wiped that install since trying to go with LMDE or pure Debian yesterday
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14:14<alex_>hola gente :)
14:15<nikole1>hola !
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14:15<ribe>hola Alex
14:15<AlexLikeRock>:)
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14:15<retrospectacus>good morning/day/evening AlexLikeRock.
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14:16<canaima>hola chikos
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14:16<canaima>hola
14:16<retrospectacus>hi canaima, do you have a debian question?
14:16<AlexLikeRock>hi , retrospectacus ,glad to see you :)
14:16<AlexLikeRock>hola canaima
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14:20<crimsonmane>thanks everyone
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14:21<crimsonmane>one final question before i head out... is debian one of the type that says it's best to competely reinstall the system for version upgrades like from debian 5 to 6? that precisely the sort of thing i was hoping to get away from, which is why LMDE was appealing.
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14:23<Ysgrammor>crimsonmane: you can do an aptitude safe-upgrade followed by a dist-upgrade
14:23<retrospectacus>upgrading tends to be painless unless you have strange hardware or setup details like LUKS or mdadm
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14:23<Ysgrammor>it has worked perfectly for me
14:23<ansgar>And you should read the release notes before upgrades.
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14:24<retrospectacus>same, I've only upgraded to stable though, a few times :)
14:24<craigevil>crimsonmane: no need to ever reinstall unless you screw something up beyond repair
14:24<Ysgrammor>ansgar: ++
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14:26<crimsonmane>i don't intend on using anything but stable. summing up, if i continue getting panics, it's likely a bad cpu core. but doesn't mint 11 support and use multicores?
14:27<retrospectacus>presumably
14:27<Ysgrammor>crimsonmane: yes it does
14:27<crimsonmane>so i feel like ruling out bad cpu
14:27<Ysgrammor>but if it only finds one core in operation it may compensate
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14:28<crimsonmane>i dont know who to ask to verify that theory
14:28<Ysgrammor>install htop and see what show for cores
14:28<crimsonmane>installing
14:29<crimsonmane>mkay, what am i looking for? i see a lot of processes
14:30-!-mode/#debian [+l 538] by debhelper
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14:30<retrospectacus>look at the top there are bars showing usage of each core
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14:30<Ysgrammor>in the top of the htop "window" you should see some graphs
14:30<crimsonmane>only one labeled CPU
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14:30<retrospectacus>I have two, labelled "1" and "2"
14:31<retrospectacus>then "mem"
14:31<Ysgrammor>I have 4
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14:31<Ysgrammor>if you only have one it indicates only 1 operational core
14:31<retrospectacus>maybe dmesg will say something about that
14:31<ompaul>crimsonmane: upgrading pain is not inversely proportional to the amount of hacking that a system does, i.e. the more outside stuff you do the more pain you expect, also see the comment on reading release notes, short and save on a reinstall
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14:31<crimsonmane>how do i reset to default? i was screwing around and added CPU to the right side twice and the left side twice
14:32<crimsonmane>what am i looking for in dmseg?
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14:33<Ysgrammor>anything that mentions CPU, Processor etc
14:33<retrospectacus>something about using only one core
14:33<Ysgrammor>look for lines with error or warning
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14:33<crimsonmane>i see "CPU0: thermal monitoring enabled (TM1)" so far
14:33<Ysgrammor>most likely something so severe will be an error
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14:36<crimsonmane>http://pastebin.com/8bgjfu6X i don't see any errorrs.
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14:38<crimsonmane>i think it's a single core system
14:38<crimsonmane>http://www.cnet.com/laptops/toshiba-satellite-c655-s5132/4507-3121_7-34647637.html
14:38<dondelelcaro>crimsonmane: I don't see the panics in that log. Some kernel panics aren't really particularly interesting
14:39<crimsonmane>those panics did not happen on this install
14:39<crimsonmane>it happens with the latest live-boots from pretty much every distro.
14:40<Ysgrammor>ah
14:40<Ysgrammor>are those live-cds running Gnome3?
14:40<retrospectacus>seems to be single core. What OS is this dmesg from? It's working?
14:40<crimsonmane>mate, cinnamon, gnome, kde ... all of em
14:40<Ysgrammor>hmm
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14:40<Ysgrammor>well that rules out one idea
14:40<crimsonmane>this dmesg is from mint 9 which i installed last night after failing hard with debian and lmde
14:41<retrospectacus>http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Celeron-M-925-Notebook-Processor.45096.0.html
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14:41<retrospectacus>maybe some kernels are trying to use some "disabled feature" of the cpu?
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14:42<crimsonmane>you might be on to something
14:42<retrospectacus>it came with Windows I guess? How did that run, oK?
14:42<crimsonmane>it did fine
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14:43<crimsonmane>i used win7 for a few months, then ubuntu 10.04 for months, then mint 11
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14:45<crimsonmane>is that the same cpu as the satellite L635-S3030 ?
14:46<crimsonmane>also, to reiterate, this toshiba 655 is listed as "works perfectly"
14:46<crimsonmane>on compat. lists
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14:47<retrospectacus>did it work and then stop working on a single OS/kernel? or it stopped after upgrading/installing something else
14:47<crimsonmane>it panics while booting
14:47<Ysgrammor>crimsonmane: I can't find the l635-s3030 on the toshiba website - I found the s3020 which has an intel i5 :s
14:48<Ysgrammor>the cnet link you posted specifies an intel celeron925
14:48<crimsonmane>well i just successfully booted this debian-kde dvd on the 3030, so i'm gonna do it again on this laptop.
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14:49<retrospectacus>crimsonmane: I mean, it used to boot OK on kernel X and then X started panicking? or you switched to kernel Y and it panics
14:49<Ysgrammor>if you have the celeron 925 it's only 1 core
14:49<sney_>toshiba has a whole bunch of extra unlisted model numbers that they sell to places like best buy
14:49<Ysgrammor>ah
14:49<Ysgrammor>crimsonmane: be aware the 3030 has a different CPU to the 3020
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14:50<crimsonmane>retrospectacus: i succeeded in installing LMDE 2010 December, it rebooted several times OK, then i did updates, rebooted and the panic started
14:50<crimsonmane>anyway i'm going to reboot and see what happens. if anything else i'll have more info...
14:50<crimsonmane>thanks again for your help everyone
14:50<retrospectacus>I wonder if you could isolate the problem to a certain kernel version
14:51<Ysgrammor>try a 2.6, 2.7, 3.0, and 3.2
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14:51<Ysgrammor>(also 3.4 if you find a distro with it available)
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14:52<retrospectacus>if lmde2010 base install is version 2.6.32 (maybe) and upgrading to 2.6.39 breaks it or something like that
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14:52<retrospectacus>you said Mint 9 is working, which sounds old, no?
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14:53<Ysgrammor>Mint13 is the current
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14:53<sney_>Ysgrammor: 2.7?!
14:54<retrospectacus>yeah I wouldn't try that :P
14:54<Ysgrammor>fuck
14:54<Ysgrammor>bad memory
14:54<Ysgrammor>:p
14:54<Ysgrammor>erm, I mean... that was a ...test! yes! a test!
14:54<Ysgrammor>you passed...haha
14:54<Ysgrammor>well done....
14:54<sney_>haha
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15:39<JLT>Hi. Quick question: how can I know the default debian usergroup that allows rw access to the serial ports (/dev/ttySn? ´dialout´ comes to mind, but I´d like a definitive answer.
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15:40<retrospectacus>ls -l /dev/ttyS?
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15:40<retrospectacus>will confirm for ya, it is indeed root dialout
15:40<JLT>duh, thanks :)
15:41<retrospectacus>np :)
15:41<JLT>related: is there anything similar to access the USB bus?
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15:42<JLT>this is probably libusb-dependent, but if anyone has any tips, i´d be grateful.
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15:43<retrospectacus>!plugdev
15:43<dpkg>[plugdev] From 'Users and Groups in the Debian System': "Members of this group can access removable devices in limited ways without explicit configuration in /etc/fstab. This is useful for local users who expect to be able to insert and use CDs, USB drives, and so on." See also <groups>, <pmount>.
15:44<retrospectacus>the group is plugdev... I don't really know any details about that
15:45<JLT>hmm sounds promising, thanks again.
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15:59<gotmynick>Hello
15:59<AlexLikeRock>HELLO GOTMILK
15:59<gotmynick>is "d-i netcfg/get_hostname string foo" the line needed to preseed the hostname ?
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16:00<gotmynick>I'm using a preseed file with that (and dhcp) and it's getting installed with hostname "debian"
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16:01<gotmynick>looking at debconf-get-selections --installer on a manual install, I only see that with the hostname I choose
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16:07<gotmynick>mmm I think I know what is happening
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16:09<gotmynick>I'm booting with auto=true priority=critical url=...
16:09<gotmynick>so dhcp and hostname/domain is happening before my preseed file
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16:10<weasel>when I last tried this, I had to provide a number of settings on the command line
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16:11<gotmynick>I'm going to try to add netcfg/get_hostname and netcfg/get_domain to boot line and see what happens
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16:11<gotmynick>thanks
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16:17<gotmynick>it seems it's going to work
16:18<gotmynick>the installation haven't finished jet, but cat /target/etc/hostname shows "foo"
16:18<gotmynick>lets see after reboot
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16:22<gotmynick>it worked
16:22<retrospectacus>!congratulate gotmynick
16:22<dpkg>Good show gotmynick, you did it!
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16:22<gotmynick>it's a bit confusing
16:23<gotmynick>you can preseed locales and keyboard layout that happens before dhcp
16:23<gotmynick>and it works
16:23<gotmynick>but the hostname needs to be preseed outside the .cfg file, at command line
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16:25<gotmynick>or use a late_command to configure stuff (/etc/hosts, /etc/hostname, etc)
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16:26<gotmynick>at the end, it seems the better for "zero key" install is to rebuild the install media with everything into
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16:26<gotmynick>network preseed seems to need to much "keys" to success
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16:28<AlexLikeRock>retrospectacus , ai need add my debian to "windows local land" how start searching on google ?
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16:29<AlexLikeRock>wath theme ? :-S
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16:30<AlexLikeRock>i found . :) samba :)
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16:33<retrospectacus>!tell AlexLikeRock about samba
16:34<retrospectacus>AlexLikeRock: yeah it will let you share files on the "workgroup" or whatever... that's what you're wanting?
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16:49<AlexLikeRock>wen windows ask for user and pass , inpout the user debia ?
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16:49<AlexLikeRock>i doit but dont work
16:50<AlexLikeRock>my password are 2 caracters
16:50<It9001>This is not an IRC considering the Windows Operating system.
16:50<It9001>This is #Debian.
16:50<AlexLikeRock>in now its samba plroblem
16:51<retrospectacus>they would certainly not help with that in #windows though
16:51-!-houms [~houms@wsip-98-191-169-18.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
16:51<retrospectacus>but try #samba
16:51<retrospectacus>irc://irc.freenode.net/#samba
16:51<AlexLikeRock>#samba its alone
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16:52<retrospectacus>it's on freenode, not this server.
16:52<It9001>Use the freenode irc network to connect to #samba
16:52<AlexLikeRock>my password its 2 character, its problem ???
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16:53<It9001>I would recommend, using a linux live cd to recover you're data, then installing a Linux distrobution such as Debian.
16:53<retrospectacus>AlexLikeRock: no idea. you could try changing it
16:53<retrospectacus>It9001: he has debian with samba
16:53-!-el_erno is now known as audioMixer_RobertoTeran
16:53<It9001>Then just recover your data and remove windows
16:53<It9001>simple?
16:54<It9001>most apps are usable via. WINE
16:55<AlexLikeRock>i need transfer data from debian to windows 7 ,
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16:55<It9001>have you mounted your windows 7 partition/drive?
16:56<It9001>you're*
16:56<retrospectacus>your*
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16:57<retrospectacus>It9001: he's using samba, sharing to the windows network.
16:57<AlexLikeRock>i can not do that , becuase are a new laptop, i need dont break warranty
16:58-!-diederik [~diederik@178-84-234-127.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #debian
16:58<It9001>Linux breaks warranty's now? O_O
16:58<AlexLikeRock>i can not open the laptop
16:58-!-torjeh [~torjeh@145.205.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #debian
16:58<It9001>you don't need to...
16:58<AlexLikeRock>if open laptop = break warranty
16:58-!-Se-bash [~seba@host235.190-31-186.telecom.net.ar] has joined #debian
16:58<retrospectacus>AlexLikeRock: no need to open it to install Debian...
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16:59<retrospectacus>anyways there are plenty of resources to teach you how to use samba
16:59<It9001>^
16:59<retrospectacus>here is not the best place, but #samba on freenode is perfect. Also google.
17:00-!-hardwire [~spencersr@69-161-26-211.static.acsalaska.net] has joined #debian
17:00<It9001>or you could resort to forums, but that's only if you are really struggling
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17:00<AlexLikeRock>i have 2 computer, 1 my debian with DATA, and #2 new laptop ()destination data )
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17:01<retrospectacus>there are also lots of other ways to transfer data, like http, ftp, winscp, etc
17:01-!-zyga [~zyga@95.62.145.82] has joined #debian
17:01<It9001>and external hard drives/usb's
17:01<AlexLikeRock>the work it transfer data from computer 1 (debian ) to computer 2 (laptop new with windows 7)
17:01-!-gotmynick [~gotmynick@212.21.251.146.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #debian
17:02<retrospectacus>AlexLikeRock: yes, any of those will work
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17:03<It9001>if it's not a huge amount of data, services such as dropbox which are free can be used.
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17:22<alexLikeRock>dropbox sucks, its to slowly
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17:24<inclmente>i'm having trouble getting autopsy to work... invoking "autopsy" on the command line says "Can't open log: autopsy.log at /usr/share/autopsy/lib//Print.pm line 383." seems like there's a screwed up path, is this an abnormal problem?
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17:32<xii3>I'm trying to find a good how-to on manually setting up (debootstrap + luks) on a flash drive ...
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17:58<alexLikeRock>i doit ! http://www.unixmen.com/standalone-samba-in-debian-squeeze/
17:59<alexLikeRock>one question more, if conect now miy hdd ... i need restart to mount ?
17:59<alexLikeRock>to detect my hdd :-S
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18:00<retrospectacus>alexLikeRock: nope
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18:07<xii3>does anybody have a good tutorial on how to debootstrap debian onto a hard drive/usb disk?
18:08<retrospectacus>no but I've done it... it's just a single command.
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18:08<devil>http://wiki.debian.org/Debootstrap
18:08<alexlikerock>i doit :D
18:08<xii3>it's missing stuff. like grub.
18:08<alexlikerock>its transfering :D
18:08<xii3>:) you got to have grub and chroot, and that good stuff.
18:09<xii3>i think i might have found what i'm looking for
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18:11<alexlikerock>tanks retrospectacus and it9001
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18:11<retrospectacus>nice work alexlikerock
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18:19<alexlikerock>leater ;)
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19:49<netsamurai>localhost:6668
19:51<Maulkin>netsamurai: Can we help?
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20:15<jgarrow>hello
20:16<Maulkin>Hi
20:17-!-jgarrow [~user@2602:304:5d04:c7f9:c52c:104:f0fe:f4c] has quit []
20:19<Maulkin>Bye I guess.
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20:25<abrotman>heh
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20:25<sla>hi
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20:27<retrospectacus>sla: hi
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20:28<sla>hi
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20:30<abrotman>i don't get it ...
20:30<dvs>bot?
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21:11<john_>ebay
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21:14<dvs>oh my goodness!
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21:31<Coburn>G'day.
21:32<Coburn>Got a debian related question, is it possible to boot Debian Wheezy off a network?
21:33<abrotman>to install or to run ?
21:33<Coburn>well, run
21:33<Coburn>The rootFS would be NFS share
21:33<Coburn>on the "host"
21:33<abrotman>isn't this what LTSP does?
21:33<Coburn>LTSP?
21:33<abrotman>!ltsp
21:33<dpkg>well, ltsp is the Linux Terminal Server Project. http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP http://www.ltsp.org/ #ltsp on irc.freenode.net.
21:34-!-HuntingBears [~HuntingBe@190.181.128.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:34<Coburn>well, the thing is
21:34-!-garn32 [~garn32@50-78-68-121-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: garn32]
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21:34<Coburn>kernel wise, how do I get one to boot the thin client?
21:35<abrotman>with PXE I would imagine
21:35<Coburn>At the moment, the server uses a targeted 3.2.x debian kernel
21:35<Coburn>Yep
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21:50<insink71>allo all
21:51<dvs>zzzzzzz
21:51<insink71>heh
21:52<insink71>anyone care to give some mysql deinstall/reinstall help?
21:53<abrotman>where did you get your mysql?
21:53-!-JLT [~JLT@130.85.247.158] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
21:54<insink71>debian repo us mirror
21:55<insink71>worked fine.. seems my openpanel install borked it.. now a purge and install nets me dpkg errors on config of 5.1
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22:03<abrotman>insink71: using paste.debian.net might help us see the problem
22:03<insink71>ok..
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22:09<nn_>hi, I'm getting a very strange output with the Ctrl-f key combination
22:09<nn_>this is http://paste.debian.net/178849
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22:10<nn_>when i press the f it's generating a FocusOut and FocusIn event instead of a Keypress a keyrelease
22:10<nn_>a normal output (Ctrl-d) looks like http://paste.debian.net/178849
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22:11<nn_>any ideas where to look for?
22:13<abrotman>insink71: did you paste it ?
22:14<insink71>umm nope.. challenged with that at moment.. on connectbot ssh/android phone.. no easy copy ;)
22:15<abrotman>oh jeez
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22:15<Coburn>lol
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22:17<sney>insink71: if it has a network connection, you can use pastebinit
22:17<sney>!tell insink71 about pastebinit
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22:17<abrotman>if he can install it with the current situation ..
22:18<insink71>should.. vps
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22:50<bradoke>daew
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22:53<insink71>well copied bottom half of install verbose...
22:54<insink71>http://paste.debian.net/178851/
22:54<duhf>when i run grub-install /dev/sdc I get unknown disk... "Unknown partition table signature". error here: http://pastebin.com/MNAGYBfH is this because i should have /dev/sdc1? i'm a little confused why i am getting this message.
22:54<abrotman>insink71: it tells you the problem .. some file is missing .. figure out which package owns that file, replace it
22:54<abrotman>!tell insink71 about confmiss
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23:14<sney>duhf: it means it can't find /dev/sdc. do you see /dev/sdc if you do fdisk -l?
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23:15<duhf>sney: yes
23:15<sney>what kind of disk is /dev/sdc?
23:15<duhf>sney: usb flash drive
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23:24<sney>duhf: does it actually have an msdos partition table? grub might be whining about that.... also if you want a bootable usb drive, syslinux is often a better option
23:25<duhf>it has an ext3 partition, if that is what you mean
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23:25<duhf>/dev/sdc1 is ext3
23:29<Coburn>duhf
23:29<Coburn>as root
23:29<Coburn>do fdisk -l
23:29<Coburn>do you see /dev/sdc listed there?
23:29<Coburn>if you do, it's likely it's using MBR
23:30<Coburn>wait
23:30<Coburn>you've already done that
23:30<Coburn>sorry
23:30<Coburn>didn't read the back log
23:30<insink71>hmm confmiss hasn't fixed me so far.., missing /etc/mysql/my.conf seems to be a sticking point
23:32<duhf> fdisk -l /dev/sdc reports : /dev/sdc1 1 355 1050064+ 83 Linux
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23:46<smith>hello?
23:46<emss>hi
23:46<smith>Anyone help me with xvidcap?
23:46<smith>Hey emss :3
23:46<emss>smith i think you can screencapture with vlc and some other programs
23:47<smith>Well I mean look at this picture. http://i.imgur.com/Uxuaj.png That is my problem
23:47<emss>what distribution are you using?
23:48<smith>#! statler
23:48<sney>!crunchbang
23:48<dpkg>CrunchBang Linux is a Live CD distribution originally based on <Ubuntu>, now based on Debian as of version 10, featuring the <Openbox> window manager. It is not supported in #debian. http://www.crunchbanglinux.org/ #crunchbang on irc.freenode.net. See <based on debian>.
23:48<smith>woah o.o
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23:49<smith>I tried going on that irc and it said that it didnt exist
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23:49<emss>the channel or network?
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23:50<smith>It is channel to select before you join so I clicked the crunchbang one. It loaded then said it was typed wrong and it was typed exactly as above. And I seemed to join this one just fine.
23:51<sney>well, that's nice, but #debian only supports debian, so maybe you should go to the crunchbang website and see if they have updated irc information, or maybe a forum
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23:52<smith>ok sorry for bothering :3
23:52<emss>smith i can check for your, one sec
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23:52<emss>ok that network and channel exists
23:52-!-Rehnquist [~yossarian@ip-89-103-165-71.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #debian
23:52<emss>well it's obvious the network existed :)
23:53<emss>sney syslinux now support NTFS and is in the process of gaining xfs support :)
23:53<sney>if you're using xchat, freenode is in the server list by default, and after that it's just /join #foo
23:54<sney>emss: yeah, syslinux/isolinux is pretty great for portable live stuff
23:54<emss>well i'm using extlinux on a workstation and it has a very nice debian theme :)
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---Logclosed Fri Jul 13 00:00:02 2012