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#debian IRC Logs for 2012-09-30

---Logopened Sun Sep 30 00:00:23 2012
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02:48<dywayne>hi
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03:28<EmleyMoor>I'll see if my loop devices problem still exists in wheezy, now I know a workaround in squeeze - but has anyone else seen mount.ntfs holding on to loop devices it is not using?
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03:30<ectospasm>EmleyMoor: you can always "losetup --detach <loopdev> [<loopdev> ...]
03:31<ectospasm>"
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04:01<tweek_>are there torrents available for the new release? i can't seem to find them
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04:40<EmleyMoor>All my attempts to improve my bootstick to include a wheezy installer seem to have failed. If I use the hd-media initrd.gz and vmlinuz, it seems to hang when mounting the existing hard disk partitions looking for a CD image. If I boot the iso as per the way I do grml, it says it can't install from the CD in the drive. Any clues as to what is wrong?
04:40-!-debdog [~Wowbagger@p5B105186.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian
04:41<EmleyMoor>(squeeze worked using the former but failed the same way using the latter)
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04:43<EmleyMoor>Is there any workable configuration I could boot from syslinux for this?
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04:46<bitonic>I've just downloaded the firefox binaries and the gtk theme is messed up. I think it's because of gtk3? do I have to select a gtk2 theme in some way other thank .gtkrc-2.0?
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05:05<sotirisb>hi
05:05<sotirisb>i need some help
05:06<sotirisb>i want to install nautilus on linux mint
05:06<sotirisb>can anybody help me with that?
05:07<sotirisb>debhelper?
05:07<EmleyMoor>!mint
05:07<dpkg>Linux Mint is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Please use their forums at http://forums.linuxmint.com/ or join #linuxmint-help on irc.spotchat.org for support. Linux Mint is variously based on <Ubuntu> with a "Linux Mint Debian Edition" (LMDE) also available, based on <testing>. See also <based on debian>, <mintppc>.
05:09<sotirisb>ok thanks...
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05:24<project2501b>hmmmm. the behavior of apt has to be refined a bit...
05:24<project2501b>apt-get, even
05:25<project2501b>i should be ble to specify packages to exclude in the command line
05:25<PaulePanter>project2501b: You can put packages on hold which will be excluded then.
05:25<project2501b>really? how, please?
05:26<project2501b>can i get a string to rtfm?
05:26<project2501b>search string, even
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05:27<PaulePanter>project2501b: apt-get --help ?
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05:27<PaulePanter>man apt-get
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05:27<project2501b>PaulePanter: my apologies! :D i just did apt-get --help and did not bring the option up. i apologize for the stupid question
05:27<PaulePanter>project2501b: I only know Aptitude. `sudo aptitude hold brasero` for example.
05:28<themill>project2501b: even better with aptitude, you just add ":" after the package name to have apt do nothing to it that session
05:28*project2501b waves to themill
05:28<project2501b>why can't i do that with apt?
05:28*themill moos appreciatively
05:28<project2501b>erh, with apt-get
05:28<PaulePanter>project2501b: Yes, I am sorry. `apt-get` does not support it. You have to use `dpkg` directly if you do not want to use Aptitude.
05:29<project2501b>also, why can't i pass a file with parameters to apt-get for a package so it can be configured using that package?
05:29<themill>project2501b: with apt-get you can specify the opposite of what apt wants to do -- so if it wants to install something you don't want, add - to remove the package on the same command line
05:29<project2501b>granted, that is encroaching Puppet territory
05:29<themill>preseeding into debconf already does the configuring for you
05:30<project2501b>yeah, but you cannot specify, e.g. the NIS domain for NIS in the pre seeded file, can you?
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05:33<themill>project2501b: the nis package gets "nis/domain" from debconf, so I'd say that's a "yes".
05:34<project2501b>darts. wrong example :P
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05:35<project2501b>puppet "stamps" a fresh host.
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05:35<project2501b>i would like the host to discover itself what it is.
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05:36<themill>sounds like you want a puppet-mdns client that does off and does upnp to invite a puppet-master in.. or something similarly scary.
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05:37<project2501b>or d-i querying a DNS server for all the SRV records under its name, after network is set up?
05:37<project2501b>themill: why is scary?
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06:43<siddy>when I unmount a drive in xfce, it is still displayed as if mounted still
06:43<siddy>?
06:43<EmleyMoor>siddy: What does mount say?
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06:43<siddy>when I do this in kde with dolphin... or cli... the 'visual' disappears
06:44<siddy>huh?
06:44<EmleyMoor>Does "mount" (the CLI command) list the filesystem as mounted?
06:44<siddy>I unmounted in the command line... and there is no output... so, it seemed to work
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06:45<siddy>oh, I'll try that next time...thanks
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06:46<siddy>just type 'mount?'
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06:46<siddy>do I have to be root?
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06:46<siddy>because the output is confusing
06:46<EmleyMoor>Without the ? and no
06:46<melmothX>EmleyMoor: yes
06:46<melmothX>oh, sorry, misunderstood the question
06:46<EmleyMoor>mount | grep label may help...
06:48<siddy>ok, not mounted then
06:48<siddy>I don't want to confuse...but, I have to hard drives in enclosure... I should label them with tape or something :) they're both blue
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06:49<EmleyMoor>Obviously it's just the way xfce works...
06:49<siddy>anyway, I wanted one mounted and mounted the wrong one so I wanted to unmount drive 1
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06:49<siddy>so, I turned on 2nd one
06:49<EmleyMoor>siddy: You could give the filesystems different labels perhaps
06:49<siddy>how?
06:50<siddy>it usually gets assigned sddX
06:50<EmleyMoor>What kind of filesystems are they?
06:50<siddy>ext3 formatted
06:50<siddy>just data
06:50<EmleyMoor>siddy: Use e2label... if your system mounts them as /media/something, the something will be the label
06:51<siddy>e2label?
06:51<EmleyMoor>man e2label to read about it=
06:51<siddy>ok
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06:52<siddy>I downloaded some images (distros) and I just want to save them to my drive... I usually copy/move data over
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06:52<siddy>I need to re-install debian on one of my partitions eventually
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06:54<grammoboy>so with imap mails are not stored on your device?
06:54<EmleyMoor>grammoboy: They are stored on the server, with minimal detail on the device.
06:54<grammoboy>if I use it on a smartphone, and it get stolen
06:54<grammoboy>can I prevent it to be read by changing passwd?
06:55<grammoboy>or are the already 'downloaded' mail still readable?
06:55<EmleyMoor>grammoboy: Yes, though subjects of mails the phone already knows about may be visible
06:55<grammoboy>EmleyMoor, only subjects?
06:56<grammoboy>EmleyMoor, no content
06:56<EmleyMoor>Subjects, senders, dates. Bodies less likely unless they were recently viewed on the phone.
06:56<grammoboy>ok, so it's a better option then pop at least
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07:18<JackShephard>hi, after update not found audio card.. can you help me?
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07:19<SynrG>JackShephard: update of what to what?
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07:21<JackShephard>synrg last update..
07:21<JackShephard>update 95 mb
07:21<JackShephard>can you help me?
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07:21<SynrG>sorry, update of what? your subscription of people magazine? please be specific.
07:22<JackShephard>i don't remember
07:22<SynrG>let's start at the beginning: you're running debian squeeze?
07:22<JackShephard>yes
07:22<grammoboy>does banshee saves the album art to a folder?
07:23<SynrG>so you did an apt-get update ; apt-get dist-upgrade or so, and reboot, and sound card is missing?
07:23<SynrG>please note if the kernel was upgraded, you need to reboot.
07:23<JackShephard>apt-get update, apt-get upgrade and reboot
07:23<SynrG>ok
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07:24<SynrG>what's in /proc/asound/cards ?
07:24<JackShephard>yes kernel was upgraded, and i reboot
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07:25<JackShephard>no sound card
07:26<elia>hi
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07:27<SynrG>JackShephard: how about putting your /var/log/syslog at paste.debian.net
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07:28<JackShephard>http://paste.debian.net/194551/
07:28<SynrG>and lspci -nn |grep audio
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07:29<SynrG>your syslog doesn't contain your most recent boot, which is what i wanted to see
07:29<SynrG>please locate whichever one contains your boot
07:30<JackShephard>I do not understand
07:31<JackShephard>what i have to do?
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07:32<JackShephard>synrg
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07:36<SynrG>JackShephard: first, the output from that command i gave above
07:36<SynrG>JackShephard: second, your syslog is rolled over nightly. look at /var/log/syslog*
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07:37<SynrG>JackShephard: your syslog containing your last boot may be /var/log/syslog.0 or it may be one of the compressed .gz images
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07:38<SynrG>JackShephard: locate the syslog containing your last boot (making a local decompressed copy if necessary) and upload to paste.debian.net
07:39<JackShephard>ok.. but the output is this i posted
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07:39<SynrG>er, sorry, syslog.1, not syslog.0
07:39<SynrG>the output you posted does not contain a boot
07:40<SynrG>it contains zero messages relevant to finding out why your sound card went missing
07:40<JackShephard>http://paste.debian.net/194555/
07:40<SynrG>also, i still am waiting for the output of 'lspci -nn | grep -i audio" (sorry, i forgot the -i)
07:41<SynrG>.1 doesn't contain your boot either.
07:41<SynrG>so it has been days since you've rebooted?
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07:41<cinch>is there a nicer frontend to update-alternatives?
07:41<SynrG>sorry, i thought you were coming here for help about a *recent* problem
07:41<SynrG>so i've made a wrong assumption
07:42<SynrG>cinch: nicer how? seems to work well enough
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07:42<cinch>SynrG, a gui for the overtaxed
07:42-!-wgreenhouse [~wgreenhou@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:6336] has joined #debian
07:43<SynrG>cinch: apt-cache search update-alternatives
07:43<SynrG>cinch: there seem to be some
07:43<cinch>thanks
07:43<SynrG>galternatives, kalternatives
07:44-!-fayaz_ [~quassel@111.92.110.232] has joined #debian
07:44<SynrG>JackShephard: how long has it been since your last reboot? if you can't perform the simple task of locating the correct syslog.* file containing your last boot, can you please reboot now so that /var/log/syslog actually contains your latest boot? thanks.
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07:48<SynrG>JackShephard: sorry. i'm sure this is as frustrating for you as for me. of course, i shouldn't necessarily expect a user to recognize what a reboot looks like in a syslog. you should perhaps familiarize yourself with reading your logs, however.
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07:53<SynrG>JackShephard: in any case, i have probably misdirected you. the simpler end-user way to obtain what i want to know is with dmesg |grep snd
07:53<SynrG>sorry
07:53-!-ao2 [~u@host33-140-dynamic.3-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:54<SynrG>bleah, i shouldn't tackle support questions before my first coffee
07:54<real>hrhr
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07:59<JackShephard>synrg http://paste.debian.net/194561/
08:03<ompaul>JackShephard: is there anything in there: cat /proc/asound/cards
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08:04<SynrG>ompaul: that's where we started. no cards
08:04<ompaul>ah I thought you'd gone and I just joined ... I'll leave it with you
08:05<SynrG>that's ok ... could use more help :)
08:05<SynrG>ompaul: see the unknown symbol stuff? that's strange ...
08:05<ompaul>any more pastebins?
08:05<SynrG>JackShephard: uname -r
08:05<SynrG>ompaul: nothing useful, no
08:05<JackShephard>Linux debian 2.6.32-5-amd64 #1 SMP Sun Sep 23 10:07:46 UTC 2012 x86_64 GNU/Linux
08:05<SynrG>i have asked for, but not yet seen the output of "lspci -nn | grep -i audio"
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08:06<ompaul>JackShephard: please do that which you were asked for
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08:07<JackShephard>00:14.2 Audio device [0403]: ATI Technologies Inc SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA) [1002:4383] (rev 40)
08:07<JackShephard>01:00.1 Audio device [0403]: ATI Technologies Inc Redwood HDMI Audio [Radeon HD 5600 Series] [1002:aa60]
08:08-!-iCEmAN_CZ [~iceman@apophis.tk] has quit [Server closed connection]
08:08<JackShephard>synrg i posted output of "lspci -nn | grep -i audio"
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08:08<ompaul>JackShephard: have you two sound cards in the machine?
08:09<SynrG>ompaul: it appears the radeon card itself has integrated sound
08:09<JackShephard>yes
08:10<ompaul>JackShephard: have you turned off the onboard one in the bios?
08:10<SynrG>JackShephard: have you at any time installed third-party drivers on this system?
08:10<SynrG>i.e. drivers not obtained from debian archives
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08:11<JackShephard>no synrg
08:11<JackShephard>i don't have installed drivers
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08:12<ompaul>JackShephard: have you turned off the onboard one in the bios?
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08:13<JackShephard>no ompaul
08:14<ompaul>JackShephard: please do so before you go much further down this road.
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08:17<cinch>SynrG, btw galternatives doesnt work, last update 2003, kalternatives only works with full kde, which i dont have
08:17<cinch>SynrG, time to read man update-alternatives =D
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08:18<SynrG>cinch: it's really dead-easy:
08:19-!-thinker [~thinker@c-69-244-39-115.hsd1.az.comcast.net] has quit []
08:19<SynrG>sudo update-alternatives --config name-of-thing-with-alternatives
08:19-!-sjefen6 [~sjefen6@2001:700:c00:200:208:74ff:feb1:de4d] has quit [Server closed connection]
08:19<SynrG>you're presented with a menu of choices. choose one.
08:19-!-sjefen6 [~sjefen6@2001:700:c00:200:208:74ff:feb1:de4d] has joined #debian
08:19<SynrG>cinch: maybe you should just state the actual problem you're trying to solve? then we can help
08:21<cinch>add a diversion to /usr/bin/firefox
08:21<SynrG>diversions aren't alternatives
08:22<SynrG>that's something else entirely
08:23<cinch>or just add a custom command to x-www-browser
08:23<SynrG>and /usr/bin/firefox is neither diverted nor does it have alternatives
08:23<cinch>but alot of apps call firefox directly :/
08:23<cinch>yea i just noticed
08:23<SynrG>it's a wrapper to call iceweasel
08:24<SynrG>update-alternatives --config x-www-browser
08:24<SynrG>but anything that doesn't go via x-www-browser needs different treatment
08:24<SynrG>using gnome?
08:24<cinch>dwm
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08:25<SynrG>try: "xdg-mime default x-www-browser text/html"
08:25<SynrG>(assuming x-www-browser points where you want it to)
08:25<SynrG>or just:
08:25<SynrG>try: "xdg-mime default iceweasel text/html"
08:25<cinch>i just want $(which firefox) to point to a custom location
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08:26<SynrG>cinch: you've provided a non-debian firefox?
08:26<cinch>i think ill prefix my $PATH and symlink "firefox"
08:26<cinch>SynrG, yea for testing a bug in dwm
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08:26<SynrG>xdg-mime default /path-to-my-firefox text/html
08:26<SynrG>maybe?
08:27<cinch>maybe
08:27<cinch>but i launch firefox directly
08:27<SynrG>PATH for that, then
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08:28<cinch>thanks anyways :)
08:28<cinch>yea path
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08:37<cinch>path + symlink works like a charm
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08:37<cinch>now im setting up a new "update-alternative" for the rust compiler
08:37*cinch rtfm's
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08:38<siddy>question: some usb flash drives might be better for copying live images via dd than others? Or it doesn't matter which one you use?
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08:39<cinch>same are way faster/durable if thats what you mean
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08:45<cinch>sudo update-alternatives --install /usr/bin/rustc-031 rustc /home/david/myprefix/bin/rustc 0
08:45<cinch>sudo update-alternatives --install /usr/bin/rustc-git rustc /usr/local/bin/rustc 1
08:45<cinch>perfect
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08:50<SynrG>siddy: avoid U3. otherwise, nothing i can think of that would make one better than another. are you having a problem?
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08:53<siddy>U3?
08:53<siddy>Sandisk, right?
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09:04<luc_>salut
09:04<luc_>doifsoh
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09:43<Guest8760>I am in a chroot environment and am trying to us a file as an argument. When I do the command it says no such directory. But I can see the file. I can open it in vim.
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09:49<Guest8760>hello?
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10:03<rgms>Hello :)
10:04<rgms>Unfortunately, I don't have a solution to your problem.
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10:14<SynrG>rgms: talking to the wind ...
10:14<SynrG>(check part/join messages for stale request)
10:15<SynrG>requests*
10:18<loizbek>Hi, I'm having a hard time configuring my network interfaces on my debian powered server, and I'm wondering if anyone could help.
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10:19<jagerman>What's the trouble?
10:19<loizbek>It connects perfectly well on start-up runs well, but whenever the ethernet connection goes down it never goes back up on its own
10:19<loizbek>I have to get to the computer
10:20<loizbek>click on the connection to start-it again
10:20-!-mode/#debian [+l 488] by debhelper
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10:21<loizbek>during the summer there was a bug, the network appeared down, even though it was actually connected, and it ran like that for a month without disconnecting, to my knowledge
10:21<abrotman>is it configured in your interfaces file ?
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10:21<loizbek>well I've tried so many configurations, I don't even know whats configured anymore
10:22<loizbek>auto lo
10:22<loizbek>iface lo inet loopback
10:22<loizbek>auto eth0
10:22<loizbek>allow-hotplug eth0
10:22<loizbek>iface eth0 inet dhcp
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10:22-!-loizbek was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use http://paste.debian.net or /msg dpkg paste]
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10:24<loizbek>sorry I got disconnected because I pasted the content of my interface file
10:24-!-dvs [~Colin@cwv.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:24<loizbek>so it says
10:24<loizbek>auto lo
10:24<ompaul>loizbek: paste.debian.net
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10:26<loizbek>how do I use that ? :-S
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10:26<ompaul>loizbek: http://paste.debian.net
10:26<planetmaker>do you know how to use a browser, loizbek ?
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10:27<loizbek>I thought it was a channel
10:27<loizbek>where paste was allowed
10:28<abrotman>no
10:29<loizbek>@planetmaker what is a browser ?
10:29<loizbek>ok so the configuration file is the following: http://paste.debian.net/194609
10:30<ompaul>how many network cards have you got?
10:30<loizbek>I've got one, but two ethernet plugs
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10:31<ompaul>loizbek: just to be sure, you have one card and it has two ethernet ports
10:31<loizbek>yeah, sorry, English is not my native language
10:31<loizbek>i believe it's on the mother board
10:31<loizbek>I can use two ethernet cables
10:32<loizbek>(no separate ethernet card)
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10:32<ompaul>loizbek: pastebin the following please ifconfig -a
10:33<loizbek>http://paste.debian.net/194610
10:33<loizbek>sorry I was doing that on my own
10:33<loizbek>without the -a option
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10:33<loizbek>will do again
10:33<ompaul>loizbek: so you have a connection on one port, brillian
10:34<ompaul>now what is your question
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10:34<loizbek>sometimes it disconnects
10:34<loizbek>and does not go back up on its own
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10:35<loizbek>might come from the router or smthg, but what bothers me is that, I thought it should be testing the network-manager was supposed to check connections
10:35<loizbek>and reconnect on its own when the connection can be established
10:35<ompaul>paste the following please cat /etc/dhcp/dhclient.conf
10:36<loizbek>http://paste.debian.net/194611
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10:38<ompaul>well the question is "how long is the network down" for the router
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10:38<loizbek>well, I don't know, I'd believe it is never more than a couple minutes
10:38<loizbek>as sometimes I watch a movie from my server at home
10:39<loizbek>it freezes
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10:39<loizbek>it takes me one minute to figure out that the freeze is serious
10:39<ompaul>loizbek: check your router - if it says 1000 seconds you have to wait 999 seconds if the router dies after the 1st second
10:39<ompaul>loizbek: inside your router stick in your own local hub
10:40<ompaul>generally routers have a 100Meg link and your own sorry not hub but switch can be 1gig in size
10:40<loizbek>and when I get there all I need to do is click on the eth0 connection for the server to be back online
10:40<ompaul>that should help with the kind of issue you are describing
10:40<ompaul>the server should have a static IP
10:40<ompaul>it should not get it's address over dhcp that's silly
10:41<loizbek>it does have a static IP on my LAN
10:42<loizbek>but you mean it gets its local IP address through DHCP, while it could be in a configuration file somewhere?
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10:43<loizbek>ompaul: what concerns me is that some daemon visibly crashed over the summer, since the icon displayed the server as deconnected, while it actually was not
10:43<ompaul>your /etc/network/interfaces connection on the server should look like this http://paste.debian.net/194614/ dns-seach foo.lan is missing
10:43<loizbek>and the problem was neutralized for over a month
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10:44<loizbek>it was always up (to my knowledge) and never needed manual connection
10:44<loizbek>and of course the problem resurfaced when I restarted the computer
10:44<ompaul>loizbek: hang on - you started off with a complaint about your client and it losing an address - now you are talking about a server fault
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10:45<ompaul>loizbek: either eliminate one or other and check out your router from the problem by giving both boxes a seperate static ip you will then be able to check what's dying on your
10:45<ompaul>lan
10:46<loizbek>I'm awfully sorry but I don't understand everything
10:46<ompaul>nor do we
10:46<loizbek>(i suck at network managing)
10:46<ompaul>loizbek: what is your native language
10:46<loizbek>french
10:46<ompaul>!fr
10:46<dpkg>Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debian-fr. Francophone users: for help in french, please go to #debian-fr.
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10:46<loizbek>well it will be the same in French as it is network management vocabulary I lack
10:47<loizbek>I meant the last comment as an explanation of my problem
10:47<ompaul>loizbek: I gave you explicit instructions
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10:47<loizbek>not as a complain of a bug
10:47<loizbek>yep I'm using your paste as a model for a configuration file
10:48<ompaul>loizbek: change both server and client to static ip - that rules out your home router, then stick a 1gig switch inside the router, that prevents the router from killing the conversation
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10:48<ompaul>loizbek: if you still have problems then you can point perhaps at wires or something the router is doing
10:49<ompaul>loizbek: cheap solution to a potential difficult problem
10:49<loizbek>I'll try that
10:49<ompaul>at least after that you can try to find out what it is that has happened
10:49<loizbek>what I meant was that the problem is likely server based
10:49<loizbek>as when some daemon on it crashed, it worked perfectly well... :-S
10:50<loizbek>so I doubt the wires are concerned by the issue
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10:50<loizbek>and while I was using ubuntu I did not have the issue either
10:50<loizbek>it started when I replaced it with debian
10:50<ompaul>"some daemon crashed" is not very helpful
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10:51<loizbek>yeah I know
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10:51<loizbek>the only indication something had happened was that the network icon
10:51<ompaul>so get helpful and have full facts and /var/log/syslog ready and read it
10:51<loizbek>said it was disconnected
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10:51<ompaul>so you suppose that something happened, you have a gui telling you something on a server, but did not check the files themselves
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10:52<loizbek>I'm no sys admin, sorry
10:52<ompaul>nor do you report that you checked "route" or "ping other machine"
10:52<ompaul>loizbek: guesswork is frustrating - please be exact
10:52<loizbek>but you're right, Ishould work on some new reflexes
10:52<ompaul>and in #debian-fr
10:53<ompaul>where you at least will be comfortable in one part of the conversation while you learn the autre vocabulare
10:53<loizbek>there again checking "route" is the same in french and I don't know what it means in French either
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10:53<loizbek>I mean I know it was up because I was away and could access my data
10:53<ompaul>loizbek: time to learn - because you need to know
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10:53<loizbek>which means I could connect to it directly from elsewhere
10:54<ompaul>loizbek: man route man ping man hostname man dhcp etc etc etc
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10:54<loizbek>okok
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10:54<ompaul>loizbek: and learn to ssh
10:54<loizbek>I ssh
10:54<loizbek>it works
10:54<loizbek>I pinged (well not through ping but by accessing data from elsewhere so it worked)
10:54<loizbek>I just did not check "route"
10:55<loizbek>but hey you gave me food for thought
10:55<ompaul>so that is how you work out if it is working or not, from the client, ssh -C user@server see if you can get in
10:55<loizbek>I'm currently connected to the server through ssh
10:55<loizbek>and was so all over the summer
10:55<loizbek>while it appeared disconnected on the gui
10:56<loizbek>I know when it is connected and disconnected
10:56<loizbek>what I was saying is that the GUI thought it was disconnected, while it was not
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10:57<loizbek>and that during that time it was never down
10:57<loizbek>hence my thinking that it is not due to wires or router
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10:58<loizbek>but before I bother you more, I'll try to make a working configuration file that looks like yours
10:58<loizbek>and will need a couple weeks to make sure the problem is still present before I bother you again
10:58<loizbek>;)
10:58<ompaul>loizbek: be aware that file has separate on lan dhcp servers gateways your values will be different
10:58<loizbek>yeah sure
10:59<loizbek>I know it'll take me a bit of time to figure out what the values should be, but I'll eventually find out ;-)
10:59<ompaul>loizbek: the way I suggest your network looks is ----|dsl router|---| 5 port 1 gig switch (about 60 euros or so) |---- computers
10:59<om00>Hi guys, I need a little help regarding the network-manager... This is my situation: when I tried Ubuntu, I've always manually set up my connection and no problem has ever appeared.. ("Last activity: now")
11:00<ompaul>om00: what are you using now?
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11:01<om00>Now, on Debian, I've set up the connection during the instaler from the netinst CD and what's happening is that the web browser surfs the internet and the IRC client let me enter here.. but the email client (Evolution) refuses to connect to the email provider because it does not recognize any active conection.. and if I look at the network-manager, it says that are there no wired connections... (but then how can I be here???)
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11:02<loizbek>yeah : ----|dsl router|-------|netgear N300|---- computers
11:02-!-om00 is now known as om
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11:05<om>(any clues on my problem? The question is: how can I set up a connection so that Evolution can see and use it?))
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11:06<edward__>hola
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11:07<om>and I have no sound as well.
11:07<om>T_T
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11:15<Bibiip>bonjour !
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11:21<kuni>hello
11:21<kuni>how r u
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11:22<kuni>hello debhelper
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11:30-!-mode/#debian [+l 494] by debhelper
11:30<houms>clicking on trackpad does not seem to work on boot. but when i do synclient TapButton1=1 from command line it works.
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11:34<houms>here is "/usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-synaptics.conf"
11:34<houms>http://paste.debian.net/194637/
11:34<SynrG>gnome co-opts control of that setting
11:35<SynrG>gnome-settings-daemon (i think) will enforce its own view of what that setting is
11:35<SynrG>btw, don't edit stuff in /usr
11:36<SynrG>the file very explicitly says that in the header, too
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11:37<houms>what if i am running kde?
11:37<SynrG>don't know
11:38<houms>wait i think i found the kde config module for it
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11:41<babilen>houms: You should *never* edit anything in /usr as there almost certainly is a better way. In your case it would be to create a file such as /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/25-synaptics.conf with content such as: https://www.refheap.com/paste/5395
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11:42<SynrG>by the way, by "don't know" i meant "i don't know if kde also co-opts control of the touchpad toggle setting or not.
11:43<SynrG>as for configuration of synaptics settings via /etc, that may or may not work depending on whether your desktop overrides those settings
11:43<houms>i did not touch it . thanks for mentioning it though
11:44<SynrG>my recollection of this is hazy, but when working with the debian-eeepc project, i believe as we were approaching the release of squeeze, we found that we couldn't make a custom touchpad toggle that worked ...
11:44<SynrG>because gnome insisted on setting it back
11:44<houms>i found the kde module. it puts a nice little option in input devices which lets me set it
11:44<SynrG>in that case, it's better to just not have a handler and let gnome handle the key
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11:45<SynrG>houms: sure. did you find that it had the same behaviour, then? that if you toggled it via synclient, kde would toggle it back again?
11:47<houms>what do you mean
11:47<houms>?
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11:49<om>hellooo, has someone read what i asked before?
11:49<houms>i was not really sure why the synclient command made it work
11:49<SynrG>ah, never mind. touchpad toggle and tap to click are separate issues.
11:49<SynrG>probably because kde remembers and enforces its own user preference
11:50<SynrG>so even if system-wide you set it, kde (at login time) will switch it back
11:50<houms>i was following another thread where they suggested typing that in to see if you get an error rather i got return to shell with a working touchpad
11:51<houms>brb gotta log back in and see if it sticks
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11:51<SynrG>gnome (when we tested it) seemed to be even worse than that ... it was forcing the setting back to whatever the preference was even *after* we changed it with synclient
11:51<SynrG>it has been years since i retested, and i never checked against kde
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11:53<om>1) no audio on debian 2) Evolution can't connect to email servers (network-manager says there's no connections, but i'm online as you can see...)
11:53<houms>yep that did
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11:56<sney>om: if you have a working network connection during your install, then the installer puts your network configuration in /etc/network/interfaces, which network-manager ignores by default
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11:57<om>well, the 'interfaces' file has some lines in it that reflect my current (working) configuration (not working for Evolution though)
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11:58<babilen>om: Please read http://wiki.debian.org/NetworkManager -- In short: You want to remove entries from /etc/network/interfaces if you want to use NetworkManager. Do you actually connect to various wireless networks?
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11:59<om>i'll read that in a minute. I don't really need wireless connections since I'm at home with a nice modem only waiting for me to connect.
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11:59<babilen>om: yeah, and Evolution is just plain stupid. IIRC you can toggle a "Work Online/Offline" switch somewhere, but you can also just use NetworkManager if you prefer that. For that to work you shouldn't configure interfaces in /e/n/i though
11:59<om>(you mean that there are alternatives than network-manager?)
11:59<babilen>om: So you only connect to a single (wired) network?
11:59<om>exactly
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12:01<om>i've found the "Work Online/Offline" switch, but it's grey (not selectable) as well as the electric socket at the left bottom corner. :S
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12:01<babilen>om: Well, in that case I would not use NetworkManager at all and purge it. I am not entirely sure if that makes Evolution happy though
12:01<houms>what mail server are you trying to connect to?
12:01<om>babilen, :)
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12:01<om>houms, Hotmail (the lame)
12:02<khan>hi everyone there
12:02<babilen>om: In short: If you want to use NM: Remove/Comment entries in /etc/network/interfaces for eth0, restart NetworkManager (service network-manager restart) and be happy.
12:02<om>babilen, what if i need to change my connection settings and have already purged network-manager? Do I need to manually edit the /e/n/interfaces file?
12:02<houms>i do not see how the network and evolution are related. babilen's original thought on offline mode was one i would have suspected as well
12:02<houms>yes om
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12:03<houms>if you have already gotten rid of network-manager but not restarted the network you can just reinstall
12:03<babilen>om: If you don't want to use NM: Purge network-manager with "aptitude purge '~i~nnetwork-manager'" -- But be warned: it sounds as if you installed your Desktop Environment during the isntallation and purging NetworkManager would cause the removal of everything GNOME :)
12:03<houms>agreed with babilen
12:03<om>houms, yet i've already tried that and no button is selectable :(. babilen: LOL
12:04<houms>if you have gui, most likely you have a desktop environment, expecially since you are using evolution mail client
12:04<om>babilen, is it because of the behavior of "purge", opposed to "remove"?
12:04<houms>i would suggest keeping network-manager and commenting out the interfaces file
12:04<om>totally right houms
12:04<om>hmm
12:04<houms>well i would square away your network management issue first
12:04<om>ok, i'll pastebin my file ok? it's very short
12:04<houms>i can try and help once you clear thatup
12:05<houms>np.
12:05<om>Ok. Are you referring to the "No wired connections available" message? (while I'm currently on the internet instead....)
12:05<babilen>om: The removal is an unfortunate side-effect of a brain-dead decision (IMHO) of the GNOME maintainer's in Debian coupled with the way the Desktop Environment is installed during the installation. I can explain that in detail, but I wouldn't want to if you don't actually want to remove NM or another GNOME related package.
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12:06<babilen>om: NetworkManager just doesn't accept the fact that you can be online without using it ;)
12:06-!-tylerstrayhan- [~tyler@75-175-48-152.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #debian
12:06<houms>well it is a network management framework that does not refer to interfaces file. it uses its own framwork to dtermine connection info
12:06<babilen>om: To make it easier for now: Just comment/remove the entries in /e/n/i and restart network-manager
12:06<babilen>houms: Yeah
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12:07<houms>yes do that so we can try and help you with evolution , then you can go back and read up on the differences between interfaces file and network-manager
12:07<RDMDD>Hi I'm installing debian wheezy on my netbook. Should I choose the linux-image-3.2.0-3-amd64 or the linux-image-amd64 ???
12:07<babilen>RDMDD: I would choose the latter.
12:07<babilen>!tell RDMDD about metapackage
12:07<RDMDD>what's the difference
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12:08<babilen>RDMDD: The linux-image-amd64 package is a metapackage that *depends* on the newest available kernel version. It actually depends on linux-image-3.2.0-3-amd64 right now.
12:08<houms>linux-image-amd64 is a meta-package no?
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12:08<houms>beat me to it
12:08<RDMDD>Aha ok
12:09<RDMDD>So it's for ease of use when newer kernels arrive?
12:09<babilen>RDMDD: The decision becomes important when you upgrade to a new version of Debian and would have to install a new kernel. If you have linux-image-3.2.0-3-amd64 installed *exactly that* kernel would stay installed, but linux-image-amd64 would depend on a newer one (and therefore install it/pull it in)
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12:09<babilen>,depends linux-image-amd64 --release wheezy --arch amd64
12:09<judd>Package linux-image-amd64 in wheezy/amd64 -- depends: linux-image-3.2.0-3-amd64.
12:09<babilen>RDMDD: ^^^^
12:09<om>Oh. My. Gosh. It seemed it worked. :):):):)
12:09<babilen>om: Hehe :)
12:09<houms>+1
12:10<RDMDD>tnx for the info
12:10<om>babilen, houms: it's soooo good, that feeling when some ugly problem gets resolved....... ahhhhh..........
12:10<babilen>RDMDD: You are welcome -- i would just install the metapackage as it ensures that you always have the newest (standard) kernel installed
12:10<houms>glad you got it resolved.
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12:10<houms>nice work babilen
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12:11<babilen>om: I hope you understand *why* it happens
12:11*babilen will now write an angry mail to the Gnome maintainer's
12:11<babilen>s/'//
12:11<houms>would love to sign that letter
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12:12<om>babilen, YES, you were soo cleat ;) it is because there are two network managers and since the first one ("embedded" in the installer) has set my connection, the second one fails (for some reason that I didn't understand) to set up its own configuration.
12:12<om>right?
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12:13<darkpire>I have a small problem with my printer
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12:13<darkpire>says my printer is out of paper, but its not, all the other network machines can print just fine
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12:14<darkpire>is there anyway to, like, flush old printer messages or something?
12:14<Guest8769>darkpire, try printing to it anyway
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12:14<darkpire>I have
12:14<darkpire>doesnt work
12:14<darkpire>says im out of paper and refuses
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12:14<jagerman>Maybe it's configured to the wrong printer tray?
12:15<darkpire>which is nonsense, all the inferior computers on my lan, you know, the ones running windows, can print just fine
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12:15<darkpire>no, this is a software bug
12:15<darkpire>something needs to be cleared
12:15<darkpire>its a problem on my debian machine
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12:16<jagerman>Your machine won't not send the print job just because the paper is out of printer, though.
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12:16<jagerman>err, printer is out of paper.
12:16<darkpire>but the printer is not out of paper
12:16<jagerman>I know
12:16<darkpire>just that my debian box thinks it is
12:16<darkpire>ok
12:16<jagerman>I'm saying, even if the debian box thinks it is, it'll *still* send the print job.
12:16<darkpire>see, one day the printer was working fine, debian was printing fine, then I did actually run out of paper, and ever since this dang thing wont print
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12:17<darkpire>because it just stuck thinking the printer is out of paper
12:17<babilen>om: Essentially: The "traditional" way of configuring interfaces on Debian is in /etc/network/interfaces and network-manager just wants to make sure that it doesn't break anything by overriding manual configuration in /e/n/i
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12:19<houms>darkspire what kind of printer?
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12:21<jagerman>darkpire: Have you tried poking around at http://localhost:631, deleting old jobs and whatnot?
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12:30<darkpire>lol I fixed it
12:31<darkpire>I guess the ip changed on the printer, which I wasnt expecting because I usually have ip addresses on my lan set ot static on my router, but I upgraded a while back and I guess the ip changed
12:31<darkpire>hehe problem solved
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12:37<houms>that seems interesting darkspire as you mentioned your windows boxes can print fine
12:37<houms>are they using a netbios name for the printer
12:37<houms>as obviously it is not a software bug
12:39<darkpire>well the difference is that when the ip changed on the printer, I had no set it up on the windows boxes yet, but I had on the debian box
12:39<darkpire>so when the ip changed, I ran and setup the windows boxes, I just bought this printer a few months ago you see
12:39<darkpire>and sat here all derp wondering why it wasnt working on my deb box
12:39<darkpire>lol
12:39<darkpire>for several months
12:40<darkpire>just wasnt a priority
12:40<houms>glad you got it fixed
12:40<darkpire>Im a bit busy publishing and coding to be messing about with trivial issues such as this
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12:40<darkpire>thanks a lot cocksuckers! now ban this ip!
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12:42<digitsm>Hello
12:42<digitsm>How can I assign a Unicode character to a key combination?
12:43<digitsm>For example I need RLM (U200F) to be assigned to a character
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12:45<houms>gnome or kde digitism?
12:45<digitsm>gnome
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12:49<digitsm>houms: Do you know a way?
12:49<houms>do you have a character map option under accessories?
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12:53<digitsm>yeah\
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12:53<digitsm>houms: I can find character maps
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12:54<houms>give me a sec. iam kde user. jumping on a vm to see. in kde there is kcharselect which should let you set key combo on special characters
12:54<digitsm>houms: Ahan
12:54<digitsm>TNX
12:55<houms>if your okay with a kde app that should do the trick for you
12:55<digitsm>Actually I don't have KDE now
12:55<houms>no i mean running kde app in gnome
12:56<digitsm>It need kde base and other packages installed! I don't have them now
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12:57<houms>damn it needs base
12:57<houms>that sucks ass
12:57<houms>have you tried the compose key method?
12:57<houms>https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ComposeKey
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12:58<houms>this may also be of help
12:58<houms>http://canonical.org/~kragen/setting-up-keyboard.html
12:58<digitsm>Yeah! I searched through /usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose but didn't find any U200F
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13:01<digitsm>houms: Do you mean I change /usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose and add something to it?
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13:02<Railgun>Добрый вечер. Кто-нибудь по-русски говорит?
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13:03<houms>well generally you do not want to change anythin in /usr/share
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13:04<houms>what i am not clear on is why it is not there as unicode is standard no?
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13:05<houms>digitism what is the u200f character? left/right mark?
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13:08<digitsm>u200f is Right to Left Mark
13:09<digitsm>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-left_mark
13:09<digitsm>With rlm: سلام.‏
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13:09<digitsm>without rlm: سلام.
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13:11<digitsm>houms: But I don't know why u200f is not placed in Persian layout
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13:13<houms>which locales do you have configured?
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13:20<kaizoku__>Where does acpid does his logging? I need to know which hotkey events are generated when I press a certain key.
13:21<digitsm>houms: Now I have en-US and fa-IR layouts
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13:22<digitsm>houms: And about debain locales I'm not sure. When I want to login I can only select en-US
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13:29<amphi>kaizoku__: run acpid in debug mode from a term
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13:30<amphi>kaizoku__: man acpid has the grisly details - -d is what you want, at least
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13:31<houms>digitism do a dpkg-reconfigure locales
13:31<digitsm>houms: And then what?
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13:32<houms>it is likely you have just UTF-8
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13:32<houms>or the en_US one
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13:33<houms>not sure if the fa_IR one would help
13:33<digitsm>houms: Do you mean I change my locale to fa_IR?
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13:34<houms>no add it so in usr/share/locale
13:34<houms>you will have that new one which should have the unicode in there
13:35<houms>be cause right now you only have /usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/
13:35<houms>it should add a fa_IR.UTF-8 in that same locale directory
13:35<houms>search that file and confirm if it has the unicode you are looking for
13:35<om>babilen was sooo clear with his last post. I was afk, but i thank him even if it's offline. Now I have another problem: no sound. Any suggetion for where to look at?
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13:36<houms>om desktop or laptop?
13:36<houms>your on gnome correct?
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13:40<om>soooo sorry, afk again, but now i'm back. Desktop and on GNOME, yep.
13:40<kaizoku__>amphi: yeah, just found out about acpid -l -d Unfortunately it doesn't show up what I expected, which was an ATKD value for me to use as the event=hotkey (ATKD|HOTK) value. What can I do?
13:41<houms>do you have a volume manager?
13:42<om>I have a little icon on the top right panel
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13:42<om>I suppose that's the volume manger
13:42<om>manager
13:42-!-resmo [~moserre@adsl-89-217-72-64.adslplus.ch] has joined #debian
13:43<om>(btw, I really appreciate the default Desktop Environment on Debian, which is almost exactly the same as in Ubuntu 10.10, my fav distro ever, because it's so clear and simple to understand, modify, backup, use efficiently... not like the horrible super-uber-new Unity that is meant for touchscreen devices and not for desktops and laptops........ So I think I will stick to Debian for a loooong time. :))
13:44<ribe>I think Debian is the only way to fly.... both desktops and laptops
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13:45<ribe><-----<<<< full time Debian user for almost 6 years now
13:45<digitsm>houms: I entered the commad you specified and made it to install all locales, however nothing is added to /usr/share/X11/locale/
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13:48<om>nice one ribe :)
13:48<houms>can you paste using pastebin or something the output of that directory listing
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13:49<houms>om what is the master channel the volume manager is controlling
13:51<om>master channel? (houms) i have a series of volume controls for PCM, Front, Front Mic, Line in and the main one.. do you mean these?
13:52<om>(gui freezing right now :/)
13:52<om>freezing-like*
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13:52<digitsm>houms: The command you listed doesn't added any new directory to /usr/share/X11/locale/
13:53<houms>yes om those controls, there should be a menu option to select the master channel
13:53<digitsm>houms: However if you want me to paste the directory listing for youI'll
13:54<houms>try a locale-gen and the name of that locale
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13:56<om>houms: I'm afraid, I only have one menu saying "Device", inside of which are three options. Selecting any of these option enables a view of their volume controls and sound themes.
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13:57<houms>what are those devices
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14:01<om>1) HDA NVidia (Alsa mixer); 2) Webcam (Alsa mixer); 3) HDA ATI HDMI (Alsa mixer)
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14:04<houms>you have an ati and nvidia sound card?
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14:11<digitsm>houms: I'm also trying "sudo /usr/sbin/locale-gen" but also no new folders added to /usr/share/X11/locale
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14:13<om>sorry houms, i got a very important email to read... anyway, i think it was the nvidia my default soundcard
14:13<om>at least, it's the one with the most volume controls, while the ATI has none
14:15-!-__iron [~tobias@2001:7c0:e701:4cae:725a:b6ff:fe85:5b73] has joined #debian
14:15<TCW>om, I guess the nvidia one is the onboard soundcard (nvidia chipset?) and the ati one is the hdmi sound-chip?
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14:16<om>hmm... i think you could be right... but the very fact is that i use an external usb sound card (fast track), which enver had any issue with ubuntu
14:16<om>houms ^
14:16<om>ooops, you weren't houms, but TOW
14:17<om>TCW*
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14:17<TCW>:)
14:17<TCW>om, so you have *three* sound devices?
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14:19<om>that's what it seems.. but i really know only about two: one is the not-displayed external sound card, the other one is one of the displayed in the volume manager, one between the nvidia and the ati ones...
14:19<om>TCW ^
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14:20<TCW>om, cat /proc/asound/cards
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14:20<TCW>om, to a paste service please
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14:22<om>http://pastebay.net/1141686
14:22<om>TCW ^
14:22<om>i always forgot to quote the name
14:24<TCW>om, so you see you have *four* sound devices.... and what is your actuall issue? What do you want to achieve at the end of the day? :)
14:24<om>i'd like to hear the sound from my external usb fast track, which the #2 as you can see in that log
14:25<TCW>om, what does your sound setup look like?
14:25<TCW>I mean, software-wise
14:25<om>TCW, what do you mean?
14:25<om>ahhhh
14:25<om>software-wise = software side?
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14:26<TCW>e.g. let's start with the debian release, stable or testing or sid?
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14:27<om>hmmm... i don't know what sid means.. i've installed debian from a netinst CD.. is this of help?
14:27<TCW>om, if in doubt, cat /etc/debain_version :)
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14:27<TCW>debian_version even
14:27<om>6.0.6
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14:28<om>i think is the stable one, right?
14:28<TCW>that's stable... and I beleive stable does NOT have pulseaudio as default... do you know anything about pulseaudio? Did you install it manually, do you want / need it?
14:29<om>hmm.. 1) I know is the default on Ubuntu 2) I don't know if I need it :D 3) I didn't installed it manually, in fact I have ALSA currently.. is that right? What are the differences between the twos and why should I prefer the one above the other?
14:29<om>TCW ^
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14:31<houms>om if you do not plan on using bluetooth i would say alsa is fine
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14:32<om>i have nothing that relies on bluetooth but the mobile, so it's fine (:
14:32<TCW>om, alsa is fine
14:32<TCW>om, pulseaudio just tends to get in the way if one does not want / need its benefits
14:33<om>(aarghhh... i've lost my entire free day without knowing why the sound disappered T___T)
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14:33<om>ok, TCW
14:33<om>guys, got dinner. brb. thx
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14:34<Nemoder>I have to use pulse as it's the only way I can get two applications to record at the same time.
14:35<TCW>om, if you get back, there are several ways to fix your issue, once we know exactly what you want / need :)
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14:37<TCW>but in about an hour at least I have to go for maybe half an hour
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14:43<maicon>exit
14:44<maicon>quit
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14:44<TCW>*lol*
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14:50<viz>How do I upgrade from stable to SID?
14:50<viz>WIthout reinstalling.
14:51<towo`>if you must ask, don't do that
14:51<TCW>viz, generally, you don't
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14:51<viz>I know I sound stupid now, but I have searched my way around. And i'm used to bleeding edge distros.
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15:02<devil>viz: then go to testing, and if that upgeade runs through fine, go to sid. keep the pieces of anything that brakes.
15:02<TCW>viz, then debian may not be the distro for you? As... bleeding edge is one thing, but it has some trade-backs one should be aware of. And there is of course the thing about "homegrown" distro bugs (packaging issues, transitions, dependency issues) which come in addition to the bugs found in the software itself.
15:03<devil>and debian is never really bleeding edge, not even in sid
15:03<devil>sid is actualy pretty tame
15:03<viz>I need sid since I need something kinda stable on my laptop, but still up to date.
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15:04<TCW>viz, I'd prefer debian sid over every other "recent enough" distro, but that is just me. If you are the same type, then... really, you shouldn't have to ask how to do it.
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15:05<devil>viz: the proper channel for that would be #debian-next
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15:05<TCW>yeah, apart from that :)
15:05<viz>TCW: Hehe, I wasnt asking for instructions. I wondered if someone had their sources.list so that I wouldn't have to write one myself. I'm feeling ill today. So I don't want to do it all by myself.
15:07<cinch>how do i change the cursor in xorg?
15:07<TCW>viz, ehm... that is actually a no-brainer... the thing about the sources.lits and what to put there... if you really don't know that much, please, reconsider your demand.
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15:08<grammoboy>I've now a qnap server with one hdd possibility
15:08<grammoboy>I want to extend it to 2 cause the data becomes more and more valuable
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15:08<grammoboy>what do I need for a decent backup and multimedia server?
15:08<grammoboy>qnap ts-209 pro or something
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15:09<grammoboy>raid 0 or 1
15:09<viz>TCW: I think you misunderstood me. I wanted a SID user to post his sources.li* since i'm feeling ill today and not in the mood for doing things.
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15:11<devil>viz: you do not want to go to sid in one step.
15:12<viz>true, stable > testing > sid.
15:12<devil>viz: i guarantee you it will explode on you
15:12<TCW>viz, no I did not get you wrong
15:12<devil>if you have no X, it _might_ work.
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15:13<viz>devil: What will?
15:13<TCW>viz, see... if one sid user would do as you asked, you would have ruined the whole system with high probability.
15:13<devil>viz: going from stable to sid in one step
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15:15<viz>ok, sorry. Well, is stable, testing, sid the correct way then?
15:15<devil>viz: and we are really off-topic
15:15<devil>in this channel
15:16<viz>Tell me if it's the correct way and i'll leave.
15:18<TCW>viz, as said, join #debian-next, that is the place to talk about such endevours
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15:18<viz>ok.
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15:19<TCW>here we do not encourage folks to upgrade stable to some testing or unstable release, nor do we actually talk about how to do it if one really insists to do so.
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15:20<agaida>otherwise its simple: apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade. :) - and then get a cd and reinstall :P
15:21<TCW>agaida, hehe
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15:23<agaida>ok. rm -rf / and the cd is faster
15:25<om>here again, TCW
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15:27<TCW>om and I am gone for about half an hour...
15:27<TCW>bbl
15:27<om>TCW: aahhhh, i see you're away.. anyawy, you told me you need to know the exact goal of my quest, huh? So.. my only need is to hear sounds frmo my external usb sound card.. frmo now on ask me for any info you need
15:27<om>TCW yep
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15:31<mirek>Hi
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15:44<RDMDD>Hi. Is there any way for different users to have different languages on debian wheezy? I want the 3 users of the computer have the programs they use in their native language. I know it's possible, and has something to do with locales, I just don't know how.
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15:45<ompaul>RDMDD: each of them can used system-settings and set their own logged in language prefs for the kde etc
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15:46<RDMDD>I use XFCE. Yes I know XFCE will display all text in the language chosen. But will the software they use also change the language? Or do I have to install additional language packs?
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15:46<ompaul>I'll leave that for an xfce user
15:47<RDMDD>Just curious, but does that work that way in KDE?
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15:50<ompaul>yes, and you can choose the language as you join the desktop from the kdm - obviously if you have serious issues with the languages you should be asking apt about language packs for as many apps as you are interested in
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15:53<RDMDD>ok tnx
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15:54<gaben>ddd
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15:58*gaben pokes chat
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16:08<gaben>chat is dead
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16:13<planetmaker>it's an on-topic channel, gaben. Not pointless chatter
16:13<ompaul>it's gone
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16:16<RDMDD>Another question: how good of an indicator is glxgears to see if your vga card is running fine? I have a Mobility Radeon HD4220. On a vanilla install of debian wheezy, glxgears renders about 400fps with the default radeon driver. I downgraded my xorg to 1.11 as described here http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2012/07/msg00647.html because fglrx doesn't seem to work with xorg 1.12. Next I
16:16<RDMDD>installed the driver from ATI catalyst 12.6 and rebooted. Now the glxgears render at 1700fps. Does this really matter? Because although everything works now, my xorg log is full of errors and aptitude keeps telling me to remove packages as they probably depended on xorg 1.12.
16:16<ompaul>!glxgears
16:16<dpkg>from memory, glxgears is an OpenGL demo, or <bogomips> for graphics cards. It is not a benchmark. In fact, in recent versions you must pass it the -iacknowledgethatthistoolisnotabenchmark option in order to report FPS information. Provided by the mesa-utils package.
16:16-!-Glycan [~knoppix@cable-10.246.173-54.electronicbox.net] has joined #debian
16:18<RDMDD>So I really shouldn't fiddle around with it and use the open source radeon driver?
16:18-!-pedromrgoncalves [~pedro@st2-84-90-254-163.netvisao.pt] has joined #debian
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16:19<ompaul>RDMDD: you can use what you want, if graphics are not good under the ati stuff don't as us we can't support it
16:19-!-pedromrgoncalves [~pedro@st2-84-90-254-163.netvisao.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:19<chealer>RDMDD: hum, matter for what? the driver's performance can matter if you play games. if you don't have any issue, there's nothing wrong with radeon.
16:19<RDMDD>I'm going to play games, well my son is.
16:20-!-rsalveti_ [~rsalveti@177.97.248.235] has joined #debian
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16:20<RDMDD>I know it's not debian's fault, I'm just asking advice. Which option should I choose, old version xorg nd proprietary driver or new version xorg and open source driver?
16:21<ompaul>stay open until it doesn't work for you is my advice
16:21<ompaul>then think twice about the possible move
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16:22<RDMDD>So the glxgears is not a benchmark at all, and it's likely the two drivers would perform the same?
16:22-!-tim_from_mars [~tim@c-67-171-51-144.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #debian
16:23<ompaul>then why the different results
16:23<ompaul>glxgears tests something, is that the thing you want ... TIAS
16:23<chealer>RDMDD: it depends on which games a bit. fglrx is generally much better for 3D accelleration
16:23<ompaul>!tias
16:23<dpkg>TIAS is "Try It And See".
16:23-!-tomson [~tomek@94-193-202-224.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:23<RDMDD>tias lol godd idea
16:23<RDMDD>good*
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16:24<ompaul>it is what I said 21 minutes past the hour
16:24*ompaul goes away
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16:27<Glycan>I'm trying to install BURG because GRUB configures my screen wrong (on knoppix, but #knoppix is dead). I can't figure out how to add a ppa on knoppix, so I'm trying to build from source. The instructions say to apt-get a bunch of stuff. Running it eventually gives an error about libc6.so being unexpectably found. After that, nothing else can be installed, and the package can't be fixed. How can I prevent this?
16:28-!-el_erno [~el_erno@201.141.77.126] has left #debian [Leaving]
16:29<chealer>!based in debian
16:29<chealer>!based on debian
16:29<dpkg>Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare http://futurist.se/gldt/). #debian only supports Debian; please respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support for other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent.
16:30-!-toabctl [~toabctl@brln-4dbc13ad.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:31<planetmaker>that's an elaborate explanation :-) (but a good one)
16:31<zodmaner>That link is dead.
16:32<planetmaker>which?
16:32-!-HarryHallman [~HarryHall@cpc24-aztw25-2-0-cust390.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:32<Glycan>well that sucks
16:32<Glycan>where should I go, then?
16:32<zodmaner>This one: http://futurist.se/gldt/
16:33<planetmaker>futurist.se/gldt works for me
16:33-!-grammoboy [~derick@52495F83.cm-4-2b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
16:33<zodmaner>Huh? Oh, nm.
16:33<Hydroxide>yeah, the parenthesis interfered probably
16:33<zodmaner>Somehow Smuxi decided to include "." in the link.
16:33<RDMDD> chat room '#knoppix-de' on IRC network 'freenode'
16:33<zodmaner>Sorry for the noise, guys.
16:34<Glycan>RDMDD, thanks
16:34<TCW>re
16:34<Hydroxide>and #knoppix has a small handful of people. #knoppix-de sounds likely to work if you speak german
16:34<TCW>om, still issues?
16:34<Glycan>...there's nobody in them
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16:36<Hydroxide>#knoppix on freenode has a small number of people, not nobody :) anyway. you might get an answer if you ask there and wait patiently. if not, maybe there's a mailing list or email you can contact? it still doesn't make it any more suitable for #debian... dpkg's comment explains why
16:36-!-Jacky [~jalcine@174.141.212.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:36<Hydroxide>by the way, burg is also pretty unmaintained
16:36<Hydroxide>and was only maintained by one person
16:36<Hydroxide>IIRC
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16:37<Glycan>Hydroxide, no, there's litterally nobody in the chan except me
16:37<Hydroxide>and "ppa" is an ubuntu-specific term, so something that calls itself a ppa probably doesn't ensure that it works right on distros that aren't ubuntu or (rarely) ubuntu derivatives
16:37<RDMDD>Well there's 3 people there
16:38<Hydroxide>#knoppix on freenode or #knoppix on oftc?
16:38<Hydroxide>irc.debian.org == oftc == irc.oftc.net
16:38<Glycan>=Oh.
16:38<RDMDD>3 ppl in #knoppix at freenode
16:38<Glycan>That explains it.
16:38<Glycan>Thank you.
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16:38<RDMDD>not that that's much
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16:41<Hydroxide>RDMDD: yup. does count as a "small handful" though :)
16:42*TCW is looking at http://futurist.se/gldt/wp-content/uploads/12.09/gldt1209.svg and gets a headache...
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16:44<om>hi TCW
16:44<om>i went away from computer and did some other stuff
16:44<om>i had no clue how to continue searching for solutions for this very problem...
16:45-!-Brigo [~Brigo@233.58.27.77.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #debian
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16:48<TCW>om, so... there are several possible solutions, the most easy one would be to blacklist all other drivers, so the external usb mojo thing will be the only one that drivers get loaded and... the only "card" that will work...
16:49-!-chealer_ [~chealer@modemcable156.191-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #debian
16:49<om>TCW, THAT's the easiest?? :D
16:49-!-jibel [~j-lalleme@89.159.167.202] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
16:49<om>TCW, it sounds a lil bit weird, but if works and is fine for the OS, then it's fine for me.
16:49<TCW>om, yep... as only one file needs to be edited and the edit is brai9n-dead easy :)
16:49-!-sorina [~sorina@109.166.129.117] has joined #debian
16:50<om>TCW, lulz
16:50-!-chronofusion1980 [~chronofus@c-174-50-32-81.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #debian
16:50<om>and there's no easy way to tell the OS to use my usb sound card as default?
16:50<om>i mean, obviously is there a way, but an easy one?
16:50<om>there is*
16:50<TCW>om, easy? hmm... that depends on what you call "easy". But yes, that would be solution number two :)
16:51<om>haha
16:51-!-MrOrange [~AgentOran@i152099.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:51<TCW>om, basically it is all about first come, first served. That means, first device recognized will be the default one
16:51<chronofusion1980>hi everyone. Phenom II x6 3.2ghz cpu, 8 gig 1600mhz ram here. I have never tried to run two instances of Handbrake to rip two movies at the same time ( only tried it in windows and it was hit or miss as to if it would crash).
16:52<chronofusion1980>Can I run two instances of Handbrake in Xubuntu 12.04 64 bit?
16:52<om>do you think you can tell me what file must be edited (and how) and then help me setting the usb as default sound card?
16:52-!-w1res [~Thunderbi@24-177-56-139.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #debian
16:53<TCW>om, sure... or... try if dpkg our allmighty and insanely omnipotent bot can help you enough ;)
16:53<TCW>!alsa
16:53<dpkg>The Advanced Linux Sound Architecture (ALSA) is a Linux kernel component providing device drivers for sound cards. Ask me about <install alsa>. See also <alsa-checklist>, <alsa firmware>, <default alsa>, <alsa versions>, <alsaconf>. http://wiki.debian.org/ALSA http://www.alsa-project.org/ #alsa on irc.freenode.net.
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16:54<om>ooohh... just.....wow. I think frmo now on I'll do the research alone and only ask if there are trouble, to not disturb anymore. ;)
16:54<TCW>om, and now just ask dpkg about "alsa default". You can do that in a private window with "/msg/ dpkg default alsa
16:54<om>Thank you
16:54<chronofusion1980>anyone?
16:54-!-towo` [~torsten_w@178-24-36-209-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: so, nu isser wech]
16:55<TCW>chronofusion1980, this is 'debian
16:55<TCW>#debian even
16:56<chronofusion1980>I'm sorry i'm a noob to linux operating systems. So i'm in the wrong place to ask for my " distro" 's coherence
16:56<chronofusion1980>Which chat thingy must i connect to?
16:56-!-ngranek [~bigjocker@186.95.227.57] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:56<TCW>chronofusion1980, not an issue... we get that problem a lot :)
16:56-!-w1res [~Thunderbi@24-177-56-139.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit []
16:57<chronofusion1980>Ubuntu Servers" ? since Xubuntu i'm guessing is like ubuntu?
16:57<TCW>and sometimes it is really hard to explain the situation to users that are new to GNU/Linux in general... but ubuntu is not debian and debian is not ubuntu. There are differences and it is always best to ask distro specific questions in distro specific channels
16:58-!-chatea2346 [~nn@142.Red-88-6-66.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #debian
16:58<TCW>!ubuntu
16:58<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu on chat.freenode.net instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
16:58-!-chatea2346 [~nn@142.Red-88-6-66.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit []
16:58<TCW>chronofusion1980, so... #ubuntu@freenode
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16:59<chronofusion1980>okedoke. thanks . Take it easy good people.
16:59<RDMDD>Is compiz left out of wheezy also?
17:00<TCW>chronofusion1980, but a small hint for the way... if all fails start the second handbrake as another user. But... handbrake has batch support AND tries to use as many cores / cpus to speed things up, there is relly no real benefit in running multiple handbrake processes at the same time.
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17:01<zodmaner>There is also a #debian on freenode too, right? So which channe is the official one?
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17:03<planetmaker>this is linked in debian.org
17:04<zodmaner>Thanks, so it's this one then.
17:04-!-peterk [~quassel@chello085216222019.chello.sk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:04<planetmaker>http://www.debian.org/support#irc
17:04<om>TCW, dpkg told me to edit a config. file that... does not exist in my computer! Is it ok if I create it?
17:04-!-bb0 [zx@shellx.eskimo.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8]
17:05<TCW>om, what file? if .asoundrc or /etc/asound.conf, yes... and dpkgs hint should be updated
17:05-!-ehoover [~compholio@c-67-190-32-55.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has left #debian []
17:05<om>:D
17:05<om>ok, thank you.
17:05<TCW>om what factiod are you taking about exactly?
17:06-!-Grammarios [~grammario@188.4.173.111.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #debian
17:06<TCW>factoid even
17:06-!-mlundblad [~marcus@217.142.147.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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17:06<TCW>brb
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17:07<planetmaker>I'm amazed about the richness of info which dpkg knows about :-)
17:07<om>TCW, a link in the dpkg's "default alsa" hint
17:08<om>actually, THE link, cause it's only one. :)
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17:09<TCW>om, ah... so dpkgs factoid is ok, the website should be corrected
17:09<RDMDD>!compiz
17:09<dpkg>Compiz is a compositing window manager using OpenGL for rendering. It can run when <AIGLX> and the composite extension are enabled for your X server; see http://wiki.debian.org/Compiz for installation, configuration and usage details. Current state of Compiz (et al) in unstable can be found at http://wiki.debian.org/XStrikeForce/Compiz . http://www.compiz.org/ #compiz on irc.freenode.net.
17:09<om>TCW, corrected = has to be added the fact that the config file may not exist yet?
17:09<om>because the link i'm raeding is very clear.
17:10-!-mode/#debian [+l 486] by debhelper
17:10-!-chealer_ is now known as chealer
17:10<TCW>hmm... I've read the factoid on my own... and as I see it the factoid could be corrected as well, as it does talk about those files too...
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17:12<TCW>om, does the website say "create if file does not exist yet"?
17:13<om>TCW, i'll check it EXACTLY for you, let me be sure...
17:14-!-vrkalak [~vrkalak@67.42.71.158] has joined #debian
17:14<om>(sorry for the bad english... i mean i want to be 100% sure before saying "yes, it misses that thing")
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17:16<digitsm>Excuse me what graphical text editor you use? I use pluma (i.e. gedit) but it doesn't have logical navigation (its navigation is visual)
17:16<digitsm>I mean navigation in a bidirectional text
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17:17<om>/panfi, the sound is coming right through my ears..............
17:17<om>TCW, the website does not mention the possibility that the config file does not exist yet.
17:19<TCW>om, you could write them an e-mail and suggesting them to add that to clear things up.
17:19-!-vico [~vico@189.179.191.165] has joined #debian
17:19<om>alright, i suppose i'll find the email address in the page itself.
17:19<TCW>but as it is not a debian-site, nothing "we" could do about it, at least nothing you couldn't do ;)
17:19<vico>hello
17:20-!-vico [~vico@189.179.191.165] has left #debian []
17:20<chealer>digitsm: kwrite, in general
17:20<om>oh, okay.
17:20-!-dnlrg [~daniel@24.165.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:20<TCW>om, uhhh... I see that is a wiki site... so create an account and add it yourself?
17:21<TCW>as, GNU/Linux is all about collaboration :)
17:21<om>hmm.. Guess you're right after all...
17:21<om>:D
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17:26<RDMDD>This is a tricky one: Does anyone know how to disable the right mouse button for a certain user? If this is possible of course.
17:30<daemonkeeper>You ask the wrong question.
17:31<daemonkeeper>I suppose you want to provide a limited and controlled environment to untrusted users (e.g. as a public service).
17:31<RDMDD>Possible
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17:31<daemonkeeper>Locking the right mouse button is not the way to do.
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17:32<daemonkeeper>Google kiosk mode for your desktop of choice.
17:32<RDMDD>I want my son who is 3 just to be able to play the games I set icons for for him. What ever button he touhes, I don't want him to mess up anything.
17:32<om>thank you very much guys! Time 4 me 2 go!
17:32<om>o/
17:32<RDMDD>nite
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17:32<RDMDD>Kiosk eh? I will look into that.
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18:01<RDMDD>I have Wheezy with XFCE, I want to be able to choose a user with an icon for logging in. Is this possible?
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18:29<Posterdati>please I need help with autofs + nfs shares, when I try to access from client the shared mountpoint the client command freezes I have to terminate it with CTRL+C
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18:52<siddy>looking for help - ideas for this problem... partition is full... not my computer... I need to copy data over to a HDD in computer... but, permissions such that I can't without modifying?
18:52-!-edgar [~edgar@204.48.72.136] has joined #debian
18:53<siddy>goal: re-install in full partition
18:53<siddy>170gb - home directory and only 189 gb space so...
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18:57<debdog>siddy: I don't quite get your problem, but maybey rsync is the thing you're looking for
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18:59<siddy>debhog: I thought I have to modify permissions?
19:00<Guest8817>debhog++
19:00<Guest8817>debhog
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19:00<siddy>debdog
19:01<siddy>anyone>?
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19:04-!-Guest8817 is now known as neo
19:04<abrotman>modify why?
19:04<neo>help
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19:05<abrotman>ask
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19:07<Guest8818>A
19:07<Guest8818>ADA
19:07<Guest8818>ADABD
19:07<Guest8818>ADA (cópia)
19:07<Guest8818>ADAJava.zip
19:07-!-Guest8818 was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use http://paste.debian.net or /msg dpkg paste]
19:07-!-andres is now known as zz_andres
19:07<abrotman>really?
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19:09<murat>selam turk varmı arkadaslar
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19:10<murat>hello
19:10<murat>where are you from??
19:10<abrotman>murat: do you have a Debian question?
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19:11<murat>no speak english do u speak turkısh
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19:11<abrotman>nope
19:11<abrotman>perhaps you'd like to try #moocows
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19:12<murat>ı dont speak english:S:S:S
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19:13<abrotman>so?
19:13<abrotman>this isn't a social channel
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19:16<z_marco>I wonder how murat found this channel.
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19:16<ch00mik>z_marco, it's set by default in knoppix for example :)
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19:17<ch00mik>abrotman, i've got a question...
19:17<ch00mik>abrotman, are you aware of any more support from Debian for raspberry pi ??
19:17-!-loicd [~loic@magenta.dachary.org] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
19:18<ch00mik>from what i know there's only a limited os version for it
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19:19<z_marco>ch00mik: thx, I haven't tried knoppix since.. oh.. 2004. Gave it whirl and went back to Debian.
19:22<ch00mik>z_marco, yeah...it's like with women - you can try different ones, but there is no woman like the very first one :D
19:22<themill>ch00mik: both debian squeeze and wheezy work fine on the raspberry pi
19:22<z_marco>ahahahahaha, awesome! And scary, but so true!
19:23<ch00mik>themill, oh..thx...will try it then..did any of you guys tried it with any touch screen device ??
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19:25<ch00mik>my plan is to build some kind of a jukebox..in car jukebox..and first thought was RB pi..with a touch screen
19:25<ch00mik>what do you think ??
19:27<z_marco>ch00mik: I'm trying to avoid touch screen. Have someone's dirty hands over the screen? *yikes*
19:27<abrotman>ch00mik: i'd probably ask the Pi people on freenode
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19:32<ch00mik>hmmm..yeah I'll ask them then..thx abrotman
19:33<ch00mik>z_marco, well...dunno about you mate but i don't let everyone i know to sit in my car..
19:34<ch00mik>what's more...whose only fingers will touch the screen ]:->
19:34<ch00mik>do you think :)
19:36<z_marco>ch00mik: Good point! I was thinking more of a all-in-one pc at work and having colleagues hover over your screen and putting their fingerprints all over the screen.
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19:39<ch00mik>z_marco, grrr..yuk!!..hate when ppl do that!!...especially with that hulk-looking face - whooaaazzdaaat!!??
19:42<ch00mik>okey dokey guys..gotta do some work..nice talking to you abrotman and z_marco
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20:01<grepper>Using xfce4: anyone have any ideas for why my monitor keeps dimming after about 10 minutes? Does this with DPMS disabled and all power settings turned off in xfce4-settings-manager ->power. In fact it does it when the xfce4 power daemon is not running. Is it upowerd ?
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20:10<grecu>hello
20:11<grecu>any1 here?
20:11<z_marco>grepper: have you tried "Settings > Power Managment"?
20:12<grecu>wher can i find chat for backtrack or fedora?
20:13<z_marco>grecu: google is your friend. :-)
20:14<abrotman>grecu: on freenode
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20:16<grecu>yes,i know that but...what ever,tank you for ur great advice lol
20:17<grecu>ty man
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20:25<cjae>[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[Bihhi
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20:29<grepper>z_marco: yes, that is what I meant by " all power settings turned off in xfce4-settings-manager ->power"
20:29<grepper>I've looked in the hardware settings for the monitor as well, doesn't seem to be something there either
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20:34<z_marco>grepper: and you have also checked the screensaver as well..
20:34-!-Pepper [~Pepper@91-114-230-104.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:34<spacedrone808>hello there
20:35<grepper>z_marco: yes, screensavers are disabled completely, and no daemon running
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20:36<grepper>I guess the next step would be to try to see if it happens in fluxbox or another DE/WM
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20:37<grepper>I also disabled any power schemes in nvidia-settings
20:37<siddy>to copy data from one partition to another hdd (one partition), I need to change permissions? chown?
20:37<siddy>can someone help?
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20:38<siddy>message: Access denied... could not write to.... ' I checked the HDD and ls -la gives: 'total 24' drwxr-xr-x
20:39<siddy>root root
20:39<siddy>so, I need to change ownership to user or?
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20:39<z_marco>grepper: it's hard to say how you have your power management configured. I wouldn't go drastic by installing another window manager. Of course, if you want too that's another matter.
20:40<TB23>hello
20:40<grepper>z_marco: I have it installed already, just be a matter of logging into it to test. It would at least tell me if it is xfce4 or something more basic
20:41<z_marco>grepper: that sounds like a plan. Give it a try.
20:41<grepper>never encountered this before, in the past if DPMS was off the monitor just stayed on
20:41-!-ledoyen [~ledoyen@dynamic-adsl-94-36-143-69.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #debian
20:42<z_marco>siddy: what file or folder are you trying to move?
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20:44<siddy>z_marco: partition is about 183gb and 169gb is data in home so I was going to remove /home folder
20:44-!-edw [~edward@186-104-239-28.baf.movistar.cl] has joined #debian
20:44<siddy>home folder
20:44<siddy>I think I can use chmod or chown?
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20:46<z_marco>siddy: /home makes part of your system. I wouldn't remove it. The homedirs can of course be moved elsewhere.
20:46<siddy>or I could try as root in terminal?
20:47<siddy>yes, I know, but I want to do a new install on the small (183 gb) partition
20:47<z_marco>siddy: but if you are going to move the homedirs, make sure that the rest of the configs have also changed accordingly.
20:47<siddy>I just want a copy of what is there so I have to 'copy' it someplace
20:48<siddy>some way I can clone a partition?
20:48<siddy>any way I can 'keep' what is there but have it 'moved' or copied?
20:48-!-mattux [~mattux@pc-177-216-160-190.cm.vtr.net] has joined #debian
20:48<z_marco>siddy: su to root, or just sudo cp -a /origin/file/or/folder /destination/file/or/folder
20:48<siddy>I am doing this for someone who wants a new install on that partition... there's a 3 TiB HDD in this computer that is only half full
20:50-!-mattux [~mattux@pc-177-216-160-190.cm.vtr.net] has quit []
20:51<z_marco>siddy: my last example is just to make a copy.
20:53<siddy>z_marco: wouldn't that work?
20:53<siddy>I was told to preserve home but I don't see how since the entire partition is almost full
20:54<siddy>so I said I'd copy the contents to another place... and the 3 tb HDD has lots of room
20:54<siddy>any other ideas? :) I would appreciate :)
20:54-!-babyrodger [~babyrodge@50-80-147-142.client.mchsi.com] has joined #debian
20:54<z_marco>siddy: wouldn't what work? making a backup first before an install sounds wise to me. Then upon reinstall, and having created the users with either adduser or useradd and restoring the backups sounds fine.
20:54-!-ryerke [~bert@ma80436d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Quit: goin' war driving at Starbuck's]
20:55<siddy>z_marco: 'making a backup???'
20:56<siddy>*hits head on wall*
20:56<siddy>:(
20:57-!-DanishRolls [~debianize@24-178-139-171.dhcp.crtn.ga.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Choosy programmers choose prgmr.com]
20:57<z_marco>siddy: making a backup, either to another server (i.e. with rsync or nfs share), or to an external device. Yes, you can try to another partition, bring the partition back with the new install, but if you format, then all the data is lost.
20:57<siddy>it's a very old install... out of disk space but data is there and various packages were installed... but, owner wants to start fresh
20:58<siddy>no, I am not formatting anything but I don't see how I can do a new, fresh install... when the partition is almost full...
20:58<z_marco>siddy: I would first start with listing all the packages installed on the server. I would backup the configurations and necessary data. Hence, a backup is necessary.
20:59<siddy>how to do the backup then?
21:00<siddy>it would be ideal to clone exactly what is there on another drive or smth like that...then I can say I left everything intact but it's someplace else
21:00<siddy>as long as it doesn't wipe anything out on the drive it's going to
21:00<RDMDD>What do you want to backup anyway? If it's data, then why can't you just copy it to another disk, like z_marco said?
21:00-!-carandraug [~carandrau@ipcop.imb-jena.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:00<siddy>I thought my option was to copy the home folder to the drive
21:01<siddy>RMDD, yes, so the sudo command z_marco said, right?
21:01<RDMDD>yes
21:01<RDMDD>Mount the drive and copy to it
21:01<siddy>what is the -a part?
21:02<RDMDD>-a = all
21:02-!-aloiece [~info@92.40.253.102.threembb.co.uk] has joined #debian
21:02<siddy>oh
21:02<siddy>I checked the man page for cp and it just stated --archive
21:02<siddy>ok
21:03<RDMDD>should be -r
21:03-!-galaxy [~galaxy@adsl-98-65-174-43.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #debian
21:03<galaxy>Hi can someone help me out real fast?
21:03<siddy>I looked at all the directories on this partition and it was used mostly as symlinks? for other computers
21:03<abrotman>galaxy: just ask
21:03<siddy>-r?
21:03<RDMDD>so cp -r /home /newdestination
21:04<siddy>Recursive?
21:04<abrotman>man cp ?
21:04<RDMDD>-r is recursive indeed, otherwise tyou get the error that the directory is not empty
21:04-!-aloiece [~info@92.40.253.102.threembb.co.uk] has quit []
21:04<galaxy>abrotman: i recently installed debian alongside with crunch bang. and now crunch bang isnt in bootloader. I had this same problem when i installed crunch bang. it didnt boot along with windows 7 in bootloader. someone told me a terminal code to put and i dont know that terminal code to add crunch bang back to the bootloader
21:05<abrotman>galaxy: in stall os-prober
21:05<abrotman>install
21:05<galaxy>E: Invalid operation intsall
21:05<RDMDD>lol
21:05<galaxy>oops
21:06<galaxy>typo
21:06<galaxy>sorry im typing fast as hell
21:06<galaxy>lol
21:06<galaxy>Reading package lists... Done
21:06<galaxy>Building dependency tree
21:06<galaxy>Reading state information... Done
21:06<galaxy>os-prober is already the newest version.
21:06-!-galaxy was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use http://paste.debian.net or /msg dpkg paste]
21:06-!-pos [~mark@ppp-50-184.grapevine.net.au] has joined #debian
21:06<abrotman>smart ...
21:07<siddy>he has to update grub maybe????
21:07<abrotman>man cp ?
21:07<siddy>maybe installed grub to a partition?
21:07<RDMDD>yes I was thinking that too, but since I'm not so experienced, I kept my mouth shut
21:07<siddy>yes?
21:07-!-galaxy [~galaxy@adsl-98-65-174-43.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #debian
21:07<siddy>I'm not either ... just a guess...
21:07<galaxy>sorry
21:07<galaxy>i will paste it now
21:07<abrotman>galaxy: we get the idea
21:08<abrotman>galaxy: dpkg -l "grub*" .. do you have grub-pc installed ?
21:08-!-fayaz [~quassel@111.92.110.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:08<galaxy>how do i know if i got it installed
21:08<galaxy>?
21:08<abrotman>look for the line
21:09<galaxy>http://paste.debian.net/194790/
21:09<galaxy>?
21:09<abrotman>galaxy: what filesystem does your crunchbang use?
21:10<galaxy>the default i do think
21:10<abrotman>are you sure crunchbang is even still on the HDD ?
21:10<abrotman>'default' doesn't help us .. thanks
21:10<galaxy>yes. I overwrited windows in partion menu.
21:10<siddy>try this galaxy:
21:10<siddy>apt-cache policy grub
21:10<abrotman>why?
21:10<siddy>no?
21:10<abrotman>it's clearly installed, see his previous paste
21:11<siddy>oh
21:11<siddy>nm
21:11-!-rjsalts [~rjsalts@staff.nm.vic.au.editure.net] has joined #debian
21:11<abrotman>galaxy: what happens if you run 'update-grub' ?
21:12<galaxy>abrotman: http://paste.debian.net/194793/
21:13<siddy>I don't see crunchbang there
21:13<abrotman>says windows is still installed ?
21:13<galaxy>r_r
21:14<galaxy>IT says that,.
21:14<galaxy>But when I try to boot it.
21:14<galaxy>It wont boot
21:14<abrotman>that doesn't mean it's not windows
21:14<galaxy>Under 20gb in file-system. I can accesss my crunch bang files
21:14<siddy>so, you have one drive and they are all sdaX?
21:14<siddy>partitions
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21:15<RDMDD>Did you try to boot after update-grub?
21:15<siddy>windows might boot now
21:15<galaxy>I had one drive with 4 things in partion list. and when i installed crunch bang i partioned #3. when i installed debian i partioned #2
21:15<siddy>I agree with RMDD, you should see if Windows will boot if you select it and debian
21:16<siddy>galaxy: so you think crunchbang should be on sda3?
21:16<galaxy>yes it is on there
21:16<galaxy>i know it is. lol
21:16<siddy>I would check gparted and see if it's there
21:16<galaxy>How do I check gparted?
21:16<siddy>do you use gnome with debian?
21:16<galaxy>yes
21:17<siddy>then there should be an icon called partition manager or whatever it is in gnome
21:17<galaxy>okay, please excuse me for 5 minutes.
21:17<galaxy>brb
21:17<RDMDD>Why use gparted?
21:17<RDMDD>Why don't you try to mount it?
21:18<siddy>I dunno...
21:18<siddy>yeah, I could have said fdisk -l
21:18<siddy>sorry :)
21:18<siddy>if my advice is bad, sorry :)
21:18<siddy>maybe I should shut up lol
21:19<RDMDD>a partition manager won't show the contents of that partition, just shows its filesystem etc.
21:19<siddy>true
21:19<siddy>but it's peculiar grub update didn't detect anything installed in sda3, no?
21:19-!-bluewater [~nautics-a@124-168-230-97.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #debian
21:20<abrotman>why?
21:20-!-nadir [~molloy@g224157167.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
21:20<abrotman>that could be his swap partition? or /home/?
21:20<RDMDD>Well if the vmlinuz is missing, there's technically no linux installed, but the data might still be there.
21:20<RDMDD>like home indeed
21:21<siddy>well he thinks there's another OS someplace so I dunno
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21:21<siddy>I was thinking of getting into the habit of having a separate /home partition on new installs
21:21<siddy>any thoughts?
21:22<galaxy>hi sorry im back.
21:22<galaxy>Guys, I can access a few of my crunch bang folders in the filesystem on debian ''20gb''
21:23<RDMDD>Did you mount the drive?
21:23<galaxy>yes on ''/''
21:24<galaxy>i had this same problem when installing crunch bang, but my friend told me a terminal code that added it to the bootloader again
21:24<RDMDD>is there a kernel in /boot/
21:25<RDMDD>on that sda3 I mean
21:25<galaxy>how do i check if there is a kernal? sorry i am a total n00b at linux.
21:26<z_marco>siddy: In the past, when I was only administering some 40 or 50 servers, we did /volumes/vg00/homes for users and place a symlink in /home. Then when it started to be administering over 600 servers, it was becoming a pain. Some servers had /volumes/vg00/home and other servers we inherited had /home. So if you do a "for i" loop, we had to seperate the list of servers. A pain.
21:26<RDMDD>how did you gain access to that sda3? tell me what you typed
21:27-!-tylerstrayhan [~tyler@75-164-249-158.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #debian
21:27<siddy>z_marco: so, you advise against a separate home? :)
21:27<galaxy>i was at the partion menu on the #! gui installer, i selected manual install and selected the #3 partion. i then went to mount '/' and i clicked done with partion blah blah
21:27<siddy>I'm just wondering if you want to preserve the home directory, then what?
21:28<z_marco>siddy: my best advice, try to keep things lean, keep it streamlined.. It makes life easy.
21:28<siddy>z_marco: how? :)
21:28<siddy>I'm open to ideas
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21:30<RDMDD>galaxy: I don't understand what you did. Can you access that sda3 partition now, from within this linux you're running right now?
21:30<z_marco>siddy: It doesn't really matter how you do it. It's more important that all the SysAdmins do the same. But it takes one server or several servers that will be inherited with /home, and it puts your plans down the tube. Keep things lean.
21:30<galaxy>RDMDD: how do i try to access the sda3 partion?
21:30<z_marco>siddy: /home is perfectly fine.
21:31<siddy>so integrated /home?
21:31-!-JanC [~janc@ip-81-11-188-209.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #debian
21:31<siddy>I do think having separate home partitions would be a nuisance if there's a lot of installs
21:31<siddy>operating systems
21:31<RDMDD>galaxy: you said [03:22] <galaxy> Guys, I can access a few of my crunch bang folders in the filesystem on debian ''20gb'' is that your sda3?
21:32<galaxy>i do believe 20gb is my sda3
21:32<galaxy>because when i told my friend i was partioning sda3 he was like you only gave your crunch bang 20gb lul?
21:33<RDMDD>Is there anything important in there?
21:33<z_marco>siddy: that's my point.. If you have MANY servers, you want all the servers to be similar. Same partitions, same GIDS for the different departments etc. Keep things lean.
21:33<galaxy>my password folder is not in my 20gb filesystem on debian.
21:33<galaxy>Not sure why. not everything is there
21:33<galaxy>but yes on my crunch bang/windows has alot of my passwords.
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21:38<galaxy>RDMDD: are u there
21:38-!-DemonJester [~DemonJest@cpe-184-153-69-193.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
21:38<RDMDD>Galaxy: I can't quite get an idea of what your situation is. But let's try this as su: mkdir /mnt/disk3 then again as su: mount /dev/sda3 /mnt/disk3 then ls /mnt/disk3
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21:40-!-Guest8826 is now known as tho
21:40<galaxy>RDMDD: http://paste.debian.net/194801/
21:40<galaxy>should i try reboot now?
21:40<RDMDD>you made a type
21:40<RDMDD>typo
21:40<RDMDD>mt should be mnt
21:41<RDMDD>try again
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21:42<galaxy>mkdir: cannot create directory `/mnt/disk3': File exists
21:43-!-hbomb [~hbomb@c-66-41-165-31.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:43<RDMDD>that part you already did, it was the second line you needed to retype without the typo
21:43-!-tylerstrayhan [~tyler@75-164-249-158.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:43<galaxy>oh okay
21:44-!-tylerstrayhan [~tyler@75-175-50-109.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #debian
21:44<galaxy>mount: can't find /dev/sda3/mnt/disk3 in /etc/fstab or /etc/mtab
21:44<RDMDD>again a typo
21:44<galaxy>Facepalm.
21:44<galaxy>what was it this time? sorry im the dark
21:45<RDMDD>leave a space between sda3 and /mnt/disk3
21:45<RDMDD>mount /dev/sda3 /mnt/disk3
21:45<galaxy>got it
21:45<galaxy>now reboot?
21:45<RDMDD>now ls /mnt/disk3
21:45<RDMDD>see what's on there
21:46<galaxy>bin etc initrd.img.old media proc selinux tmp vmlinuz
21:46<galaxy>boot home lib mnt root srv usr vmlinuz.old
21:46<galaxy>dev initrd.img lost+found opt sbin sys var
21:46-!-galaxy was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use http://paste.debian.net or /msg dpkg paste]
21:46-!-galaxy [~galaxy@adsl-98-65-174-43.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #debian
21:46<galaxy>lool
21:46<abrotman>galaxy: this channel is not paste.debian.net .. please learn the difference
21:47<galaxy>http://paste.debian.net/194803/
21:47<abrotman>galaxy: paste ls /mnt/disk3/boot/
21:47-!-knell [~kk@c-24-4-197-166.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #debian
21:48<galaxy>i did
21:48<galaxy>oh
21:48<galaxy>oops
21:48<galaxy>ok
21:48<abrotman>and stop hitting enter every third word
21:49<galaxy>http://paste.debian.net/194804/
21:49<knell>l
21:49<knell>o
21:49<knell>l
21:49<abrotman>excuse me?
21:49<galaxy>3.2..0 is crunch bang abrotman. I know that
21:50<knell>wat
21:50<galaxy>''config-3.2.0.0-0.bpo.3-686-pae
21:50-!-floe_ [~flo@f052099132.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:50<abrotman>galaxy: that looks like a Debian kernel to me
21:50<galaxy>Crunch bang is based on Debian
21:50<galaxy>:)
21:50<abrotman>i'm aware
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21:51<galaxy>Thats what i always selected when i booted up crunch bang.
21:51<abrotman>galaxy: cat /etc/mtab .. use paste.debian.net
21:51-!-ace [~ace@60.208.223.21] has quit []
21:52<galaxy>abrotman: http://paste.debian.net/194805/
21:52<galaxy>oh and I did update my kernal to 3.2.0-0 to get my wifi to work on crunch bang
21:53<galaxy>''sudo apt-get install -t squeeze-backports linux-image-3.2.0-0.bpo.3-amd64''
21:53<galaxy>is what i did.
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21:58<RDMDD>is the partition bootable?
21:58<galaxy>No thats the problem. I dont see crunch bang in the bootloader.
21:59<RDMDD>No I mean is the bootable flag up from that partition. Use a partition manager to se if it is, but don't write any changes to it, except setting the bootable flag
21:59<galaxy>how would i install a partion manager?
21:59<galaxy>whats terminal code
22:00<RDMDD>are you using gnome?
22:00<galaxy>yes
22:01<RDMDD>you can try sudo apt-get install gparted
22:02<galaxy>its installing
22:02<galaxy>really fast.
22:02<galaxy>kk its done
22:02<galaxy>now what?
22:03<RDMDD>can you also paste your cat /etc/fstab
22:03-!-light [~light@173-26-30-97.client.mchsi.com] has joined #debian
22:03<galaxy>http://paste.debian.net/194807/
22:04<galaxy>Now how do I open up gparted
22:04-!-hychen [~hychen@175.41.48.77] has joined #debian
22:04<galaxy>nevermind I found it.
22:05<light>Okay so Debian-stable only updates for security holes, but what do you do if you want to update a piece of software (like emacs 23 to 24)?
22:05<galaxy>now what do i do on gparted? i see sda3.
22:06<abrotman>light: emacs isn't a small piece of software
22:06<RDMDD>look to that sda3 and see if it says bootable yes
22:07<galaxy>nope
22:07<galaxy>there is no ''boot''
22:07<RDMDD>jsec
22:08<galaxy>kk
22:08<RDMDD>right click on sda3 and choose manage flags
22:08<light>abrotman: so you cant update emacs until a new Debian is released?
22:08<galaxy>select ''boot''?
22:08<RDMDD>was boot selected?
22:08<galaxy>nope
22:08<abrotman>light: i didn't say that .. just that it' snot small
22:08<abrotman>!tell light about ssb
22:08<abrotman>light: good luck!
22:09<RDMDD>so select it
22:09<RDMDD>then close
22:09<galaxy>Failed to mount ''108M Volume''
22:09<galaxy>The enlocsing drive for the volume is locked
22:09<z_marco>galaxy: are you on that partition?
22:09<RDMDD>you said sda3 was 20 GB
22:10<galaxy>z_marco: no. sda2 is my debian
22:10<galaxy>it is.
22:10<RDMDD>no check the fstab he just pasted
22:10<light>abrotman: thanks, ill look into it.
22:10<RDMDD>oh ok wait
22:10<galaxy>Okay.
22:10<RDMDD>close gparted
22:10-!-simonlnu [puj9MKL6IT@211.204-ppp.3menatwork.com] has quit [Quit: The installer asked me to install Mac OS 9 or better, so I installed GNU/Linux instead.]
22:10<galaxy>RDMDD: It added boot.
22:11<galaxy>I just clicked cancel on the messaghe
22:11<RDMDD>goto command prompt
22:11<galaxy>ok
22:11<galaxy>root or regular
22:11<RDMDD>and as su type umount /dev/sda3
22:12<RDMDD>paste the cat /etc/mtab again
22:12<galaxy>http://paste.debian.net/194808/
22:13<galaxy>okay done with umount /dev/sda3
22:13<galaxy>now do i try and add the boot flag?
22:13<galaxy>oh
22:13<RDMDD>did you paste the cat /etc/mtab after you did the umount?
22:13<galaxy>mo.
22:13<galaxy>no
22:13<galaxy>sorry will do it now
22:14<galaxy>http://paste.debian.net/194809/
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22:15<RDMDD>it's still mounted in your /media/890a79f5-e0e3-44f4-ba9f-aa9f30a18688
22:15<RDMDD>so try this: umount /media/890a79f5-e0e3-44f4-ba9f-aa9f30a18688
22:16<RDMDD>copy paste this lol
22:16<galaxy>lol ok
22:16<chealer>light: it depends on the piece of software. it's the same problem (or worst) as installing a piece of software which is not packaged. you can find packages outside your release or do it manually
22:16<galaxy>okay done.
22:16<galaxy>want me to do cat again
22:16<RDMDD>ya
22:16<abrotman>*mow*
22:17<planetmaker>light you can try the backport repositories
22:17<planetmaker>!backport
22:17<dpkg>A backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications. http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch02.en.html (2.7.4 and 2.7.10), http://backports.debian.org/ . Ask me about <debian-backports> and <backport caveat>. See also <simple sid backport>.
22:17<galaxy>RMDD: http://paste.debian.net/194810/
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22:17<light>thanks planetmaker
22:17<light>thanks chealer
22:17<RDMDD>then run gparted again and try setting the boot flag.
22:18<galaxy>okay
22:18<galaxy>failed
22:18<galaxy>there is ''boot'' under the flags tho
22:19<RDMDD>did you run gparted as root?
22:19<galaxy>no how do i do that
22:19<galaxy>lol
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22:20<planetmaker>!simple sid backport
22:20<dpkg>First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
22:20<RDMDD>in a terminal emulator simpy type gparted when you are su or root
22:21<abrotman>planetmaker: you can use !tell
22:21<galaxy>Failed again. Btw When i check box it goes under ''boot'' in flags but it still says unable
22:22<planetmaker>thx, I'll try to remember that :-)
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22:23<RDMDD>right click again on that sda3 and do you see the option unmount?
22:24-!-trifolio6 [~h@62.43.62.203.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #debian
22:24<galaxy>nope
22:24<galaxy>unmount is grayed out
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22:26<RDMDD>Well my best guess would be to do this from a liveUSB or liveCD then. I think the boot flag needs to be up for grub to detect if there's a bootable partition. Then again, I don't know everything, so if this is not the case, I don't know how to help you then.
22:26<galaxy>hmm
22:27<RDMDD>Maybe someone else here is willing to.
22:27<galaxy>i think i know what to do
22:27<RDMDD>And that is?
22:27*abrotman is fairly sure the 'bootable' flag isn't for linux
22:27<RDMDD>lol ok
22:27<galaxy>wait..
22:28<galaxy>could it be because i mounted the ''/'' on both crunch bang and debian?
22:28<galaxy>so maybe if i un-mount debians ''/'' under partion and that will maybe work?
22:28<RDMDD>the / IS your debian
22:28<galaxy>i know
22:28<RDMDD>You can't unmount that
22:28<galaxy>i also put '/' on crunch bang
22:29<abrotman>it's quite possible the grub in debian won't be able to find the crunchbang for whatever reason .. ext4 could be a possible reason
22:29<RDMDD>the / is where your filesystem is. Every linux has a / . As long as they're not located on the same partition, there's no problem.
22:30<galaxy>hold on
22:30<galaxy>im going to restart for a sec
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22:32<galaxy_>ahh didnt work
22:32<galaxy_>um
22:32<galaxy_>i guess i can
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22:32<galaxy_>put my live usb in. What do i do when i get to the partion screen
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22:33<RDMDD>Well if abrotman says it has nothing to do with the boot flag, then I guess it doesn't. But you can still try.
22:34<galaxy_>what should i do to get it back?
22:34<RDMDD>Get what back?
22:34<galaxy_>crunch bang
22:34<RDMDD>No idea then.
22:35<galaxy_>My friend is a master at linux distros i can wait for him i guess
22:35<galaxy_>hmm
22:35<galaxy_>hes in uk so his timezone is longer then mine so hes not on tonight
22:35<abrotman>...
22:35<galaxy_>thanks for trying guys :P
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22:39<RDMDD>Does anyone here know how to customize the lightdm? The manual is a bit vague, and I haven't seen some templates yet. There aren't any greeters for it to download yet either.
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22:43<galaxy>yo guys
22:43<galaxy>I booted up installer via usb
22:43<galaxy>I went to partion screen, i checked out sda3 and the mount point was not set to '/' and the bootable flag was ''on'', could it be because debian and crunch bang are using the ext3 file system?
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22:46<galaxy>?????? anyone
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23:36<SpaceGhostPurrp>Anyone here?
23:36<SpaceGhostPurrp>like active.
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---Logclosed Mon Oct 01 00:00:21 2012