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#debian IRC Logs for 2012-11-18

---Logopened Sun Nov 18 00:00:31 2012
00:05-!-Web-aptosid466 [~bb@2601:8:1500:53:219:d2ff:fe60:1f6d] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:05-!-ext5 [~imperial@d24-36-54-68.home1.cgocable.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
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00:31<basic_bot>Hi everybody!
00:32-!-meaustin [~meaustin@c-68-59-166-112.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #debian
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00:35-!-Merovoth [~quassel@pool-72-88-42-114.bflony.east.verizon.net] has joined #debian
00:41<Merovoth>Anyone else ever have any problems with the Ufw firewall?
00:43-!-Merovoth [~quassel@pool-72-88-42-114.bflony.east.verizon.net] has left #debian [http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]
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01:12<Web-aptosid466>LtL: got it, thx
01:12<Web-aptosid466>the only problem is that the mouse pointer isn't an arrow, but a square
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01:22<Web-aptosid466>at resuming time*
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01:50<sney>Web-aptosid466: btw, aptosid isn't supported in #debian, and afaik aptosid is defunct and has been replaced by siduction
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02:09<bluewater>sney: aptosid is not defunct , we are working toward a new release
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02:11<Web-aptosid466>heh, less than 2months to go,
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03:07<zkutch>compile wine-git for wheezy, application fail to start, again receive error "CoUninitialize Mismatched CoUninitialize" - anybody know direction to dig?
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03:25<rainfyre>how can I see what processes are using my network bandwith?
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03:28<formorer>iftop
03:30-!-s0d0 [~john@host81-141-166-21.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
03:30<Calinou>must be run with sudo
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03:34<delirium>rainfyre: nethogs might be easier to match to a PID # apt-get install nethogs
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03:40<rainfyre>thank you both
03:40<christian>chris
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04:00<Katy>In aptitudes output, what means the {p} after a package name?
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04:10<meaustin>katy: -P, --prompt
04:10<meaustin> Always display a prompt before downloading, installing or removing
04:10<meaustin> packages, even when no actions other than those explicitly
04:10<meaustin> requested will be performed.
04:10-!-meaustin was kicked from #debian by debhelper [flood]
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04:11<XReaper>lol
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04:14<Katy>That was not even what want to know...
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04:19-!-mode/#debian [+l 515] by debhelper
04:19<rainfyre>Katy: The first character of each line indicates the current state of the package: the most common states are p, meaning that no trace of the
04:19<rainfyre> package exists on the system
04:20-!-popey [~alan@cpc8-farn5-2-0-cust235.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #debian
04:20<rainfyre>Katy: man aptitude :)
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04:21<Katy>rainfyre: That's not what I asked for. I mean the {p} at the end of a package name, like libisc62{p}. On command line, not in interface.
04:21<Katy>And thats not documented in man aptitude :)
04:22<rainfyre>Katy: I misunderstood :)
04:22-!-Jerry_Wang [~jerry@112.126.0.234] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:22<rainfyre>Katy: when do you see that output?
04:23-!-xiangfu [~xiangfu@fidelio.qi-hardware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:24<Katy>rainfyre: aptitude purge `deborphan`
04:24<Calinou>no need to put quotes
04:25<Calinou>also, ` quotes are terrible
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04:27<Katy>Calinou: Why no need to put quotes?
04:27-!-jesusprubio [~ffdsafs@180.102.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
04:27<Calinou>because.
04:28<Calinou>this isn't programming 8)
04:28<Nemoder>Calinou: i think caty wants to purge the output of deborphan, not deborphan itself
04:28<Katy>yep
04:28<Nemoder>s/c/k/
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04:33<Guest6002>hello there . how can i webcam chat with others
04:34<devil>Guest6002: per skype and others
04:34<Nemoder>google talk has a native plugin as well
04:34-!-AzaToth [~azatoth@h87-96-232-177.dynamic.se.alltele.net] has joined #debian
04:35<Guest6002>can i get skype for ubuntu 12.04.1 download from someone please
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04:36<devil>Guest6002: we do not use ubuntu
04:36<devil>get it from the skype website
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04:38<super>In Ubuntu you need to edit your sources.list in order to allow 386 binaries and allow canonical partners
04:39<super>then you can "aptitude install skype"
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04:45<ba>ciao, sapete dirmi come posso ripulire la configurazione di avvio? ogni volta che parte il sistema mi apre in automatico tomboy sul desktop e l'icona si piazza nella barra in alto a destra. eppure in Applicazioni d'avvio non c'è... grazie
04:45-!-eztam [~quassel@77-20-8-137-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:45<Nemoder>!it
04:45<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
04:47<ba>hi nemoder. could you tell me how to delete tomboy from the autostart? every time i boot my squeeze, tomboy appears on the desktop and the icon sets on the right-top pf the bar.
04:48-!-Eremiell [~eremiell@2001:718:801:233:2105:fe69:f1af:477] has joined #debian
04:48<super>in gnome?
04:48<Nemoder>ba: XFCE has a session and startup editor, what DE do you use?
04:48<super>ba: what de?
04:48<ba>yes, gnome, super
04:49-!-mode/#debian [+l 521] by debhelper
04:49<ba>nemoder: I tried XFCE too but I uninstalled it
04:49<Nemoder>I'm sure gnome has a similar option but I don't know it
04:49<super>top right click something, i dont exactly remember, maybe its you name or an icon, whatever is in the very top right, where you go to logogoff
04:49<ba>nemoder: there is a graphic startup editor but tomboy doesn't appear there
04:49<super>there will be a "startup applications"
04:50<super>do you want tomboy to run at all?
04:50<ba>it's annoying that anytime I boot, tomboy appers open on my desktop!
04:50-!-Calinou [~Calinou@189.113.101.84.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:51<super>I'm not very familiar with tomboy but try, opening a terminal, and running "sudo update-rc.d tomboy disable"
04:51<ba>I don't know actually where configs file is set, maybe I should delete it
04:51<ba>ok I'll try right now, thanks
04:51<super>let me know output
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04:53<ba>update-rc.d: using dependency based boot sequencing
04:53<ba>update-rc.d: error: cannot find a LSB script for tomboy
04:54<super>shit, well there goes my first idea
04:54<ba>you mean..?
04:55<Nemoder>ba: maybe it's set in ~/.gnome2/session ?
04:55<super>gconf prolly can hekp you
04:55<super>sudo gconf
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04:56<super>you are using gnome 2?
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04:56<super>http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1067101
04:56<ba>i am using the last gnome
04:57<super>oh ok
04:57<ba>debian is squeeze and the gnome I use is the default one
04:58<ba>by the way: in the startup manager there are some voices about xfce even if i uninstalled it all... or maybe i think i've done it! now i'll read your link, thanks
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04:59<super>i'm afreaid do to lack of knowledge i amunable to advise you further
04:59<super>don't use gnome or tomboy
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04:59<super>(i dont use)
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05:04<ba>i'm afraid i don't know how to open such a file: ~/.config/autostart/ 
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05:05<ectospasm>ba: you can always use the "file" command to determine what type of file it is, it may give you a clue: file ~/.config/autostart/...
05:05<ectospasm>that isn't fool proof
05:05<ectospasm>...it may just say "ASCII text"
05:06<ectospasm>Or it could say that it doesn't recognize it at all ("data")
05:06<ba>/root/.config/autostart/: ERROR: cannot open `/root/.config/autostart/' (No such file or directory)
05:06<ectospasm>you're running this as root? Sounds like a terrible idea
05:06<ba>so..?
05:06<ba>why is it terrible?
05:07<ba>mabe i should keep my tomboy!
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05:07<ba>:)
05:07<Nemoder>!root
05:07<dpkg>It has been said that root is the administrative account - only use it when root power is needed. So no reading mail, compiling programs, or running applications as root. And don't even think about irc'ing as root, it increases the danger from exploits and trojans (such as bliss), or see, for example, the security advisory on BitchX http://www.debian.org/security/2003/dsa-306
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05:08<ba>:°(
05:08<ectospasm>ba: you shouldn't be root for normal uses on Linux (or UNIX for that matter), for precisely the same reason you shouldn't do it on Windows.
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05:08<ba>if I close my terminal I'm not root anymore, right?
05:09<ectospasm>Unfortunately, Windows will require you to have adminstrative privileges with the click of a button (and apparently no password)
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05:09<Nemoder>ba: did you log into gnome as root?
05:09<ectospasm>...you could achieve the privilege escalation in Linux through the appropriate exploit, or configuring the system in a certain (insecure) way.
05:09<ba>no
05:10<Nemoder>then you should be fine, just start a terminal as a normal user
05:10<ectospasm>may want to look into sudo for obtaining root privs
05:10<ba>this account has on root privileges so i gave the root pwd to work that line
05:10<Nemoder>or just browse to the directory ~/.config/autostart in your file manager
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05:10<ba>no *
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05:11<ba>so now many pepole are violating my system?
05:11<ba>:)
05:12<Nemoder>ba: it is ok to issue commands as root as needed, just never log into your desktop that way
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05:12<ba>i have two account: one with sudo permissions and the other one without
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05:13<ba>but there is no direct access as root in the boot account mask
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05:14<Nemoder>an account with sudo access is fine as long as it isn't 'root' :)
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05:14<ba>anyway, if i uninstall tomboy, a pack named debian is removed too. and if i reinstall debian pack, tomboy comes back with the same annoying problem!
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05:15<ba>Nemoder: if i shut down the terminal i'm automatically no root anymore, is that right?
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05:15<Nemoder>ba: how were you root in the terminal? su?
05:15<ba>yes
05:15<Nemoder>just type exit then
05:15<ba>bad idea?
05:16<ba>ok, done
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05:16<ba>how can i know now if there are some guests in my pc? :D
05:16<Nemoder>now when you look at ~ it will point to your home dir instead of /root/
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05:17<ba>i shoul go and have a shampoo instead of cracking my own system!
05:18<Nemoder>well, try this: ls ~/.config/autostart/
05:18<super>In openSUSE, by default, Tomboy is added to your panel as an applet. All you need to do to keep it from running at startup is to right-click the Tomboy icon, and select "Remove From Panel".
05:18<super>I qoute
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05:19<ba>i did it several times, super
05:19<ba>but always comes back
05:19<ba>anyway, Nemoder: bluetooth-applet.desktop xfce4-power-manager.desktop
05:19<ba>gnome-power-manager.desktop xfce4-settings-helper-autostart.desktop
05:19<ba>gnome-user-share.desktop xfce4-tips-autostart.desktop
05:19<ba>Screenlets Daemon.desktop xfconf-migration-4.6.desktop
05:19<ba>vino-server.desktop
05:19-!-ba was kicked from #debian by debhelper [flood]
05:19<super>damn
05:19<super>I am no help
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05:19<ba>i'm sorry
05:19<Nemoder>heh pasted too much
05:19<ba>the funny thing is that i uninstalled xfce u.u
05:20<ba>i only lilke debian
05:20<ba>pardon
05:20<ba>gnome
05:20-!-Eremiell [~eremiell@2001:718:801:233:2105:fe69:f1af:477] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:20<Nemoder>ba: it looks like xfce4-settings-helper-autostart.desktop might be your problem
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05:20<ba>ok, i'll have a look at that file
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05:21<ba>how can i delete all those?
05:21<Nemoder>rm ~/.config/autostart/xfce4-settings-helper-autostart.desktop
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05:22<Nemoder>or browse to it in your file manager, though you would have to enable hidden directories to see .config
05:22<ba>s rm is "remove"? and i can delete all of those files xfce?
05:22<Nemoder>yes
05:22<ba>thanks!
05:24<Nemoder>I wonder if anyone has bothered to write an app to clean up configuration files in home directories for software no longer installed.
05:25<ba>nemoder, the last question: can vino-server.desktop be disabled?
05:26<Nemoder>I don't know what that is
05:26<ba>remote desktop, google says
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05:29<ba>i'll try to restart to see if tomboy has gone... see you in a while for a feedback and thanks a lot
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05:32<ba>well... tomboy is styill there!!!
05:33<ba>i'll keep it :)
05:33<Nemoder>:(
05:33<ba>thanks a lot anyway, guys, you've been very kind
05:33<Nemoder>sorry, I don't know gnome very well
05:33<ba>what do you use?
05:33<Nemoder>XFCE
05:33<ba>mm ok
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05:35<ba>ok, have a good sunday
05:35<ba>see you and thanks again
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06:02<thejocker>ciao
06:02<thejocker>!list
06:02<dpkg>thejocker: È possibile di scaricare un sacco di software libero puntando il tuo browser a http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/multi-arch/iso-cd/debian-6.0.6-amd64-i386-netinst.iso !
06:03<thejocker>ciao
06:03<thejocker>!list
06:03<dpkg>thejocker: È possibile di scaricare un sacco di software libero puntando il tuo browser a http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/multi-arch/iso-cd/debian-6.0.6-amd64-i386-netinst.iso !
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06:48<nangaboy>hello everyone
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08:30<hugo_>ola
08:30<hugo_>hi
08:30<hugo_>hi
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08:33<aziz>bjr
08:33<aziz>hi hugo
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09:12<om>hello guys, i'm back questioning
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09:13<om>the problem is: with my debian pc i cannot listen to music on youtube (flashplugin) if i have opened another program that uses the audio output (e.g.: skype.. not the callings, but just the audio clip that's played when you sign in))
09:14-!-dvs [~colin@cwv.teksavvy.com] has joined #debian
09:14<om>i'veb ust thought i have to find the drivers for my audio device
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09:14<om>which is an external soundcard
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09:47<southernc>anyone know why in wheezy u cant drag apps from menu to desktop or create a shortcut to apps by right clicking ive already restored trash icons etc by using tweak tool but cant figure out how to get app shortcuts gnome/wheezy thanks
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09:57<RodolfoRG>southernc: wheezy is in #debian-next
09:57<abrotman>ugh
09:57<abrotman>southernc: are you allowing it to use nautilus?
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10:02<zafir>hahahahahahahahahahahh
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11:06<om>hey guys
11:06<om>how can i convert videos in debian?
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11:06<om>do not tell me to use ffmpeg because i always got problems with that, i'm still a newbie
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11:09<SynrG>from what to what? and ffmpeg is fine. mencoder is another option. there are plenty of docs out there
11:09<Brigo>om try vlc or avidemux
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11:09<Brigo>or transmageddon
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11:09<om>hmm, vlc?
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11:10<Brigo>yes, vlc can do it.
11:10<om>well, flv to mp4 or avi container for xvid
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11:10<om>ok, then i'll try those programs you named
11:10<om>thanks you all
11:10<Brigo>yaw
11:10<Brigo>4
11:10<om>SynrG, i know ffmpeg is fine, but i always got problems
11:11<SynrG>it's just that without mentioning your specific problems we can't help
11:11<SynrG>you gave zero details
11:12<SynrG>(initially)
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11:12<SynrG>i've done flv to mp4 or avi container for xvid with ffmpeg (albeit with sid version, not squeeze)
11:13<SynrG>failures usually relate to not having codecs installed
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11:13<SynrG>if you had said "i tried transcoding X to Y with tool Z and got these errors" we might be able to assist better
11:16<perlwizard>om avconv works well
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11:37<madlinux>bonjour
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11:51<om>!away
11:51<dpkg>Do not use public away/back messages in #debian. If we want to know where you are, we'll /whois you. In BitchX, /set auto_away off; in XChat, Preferences > Chatting > General > uncheck Announce Away Messages; ask in #yourircclient if you have questions. If you continue to use public aways/backs you will be devoiced. http://sackheads.org/~bnaylor/spew/away_msgs.html
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12:05<{xmb}>3.6er kernel.. not much different
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12:17<Katy>In aptitudes output, what means the {p} after a package name?
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12:19<{xmb}>df -h
12:20<{xmb}>er
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12:27<enniojr>king arthur
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12:31<piero>hello debian experts out there.... some questions for you....
12:31<maxiaojun>just ask
12:31<piero>first question.... how does a newbie put a guest session where there isn't one? i have installed debian 6.0.5 lxde but unfortunately it does not have a guest session by default..... and this is a problem for a newbie as newbie doesn't know where to start to create one..... the guest user as i have understood has the following three characteristics: (1) POWERLESS (cannot access files of other users, cannot access importan
12:31<piero>t files, cannot damage computer in any way), (2) PASSWORDLESS (no password to login), (3) STORAGELESS (nothing gets stored, every time you login it's brand new as if it's the first time).... so can someone out there please tell me how to do that?
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12:34<{xmb}>sux
12:34<{xmb}>maikrocuX
12:35<maxiaojun>piero: 1 you just create a new user and do not add it to any groups?
12:35<maxiaojun>piero: 2 just remove the password field in /erc/passwd or /etc/shadow
12:36<maxiaojun>piero: 3 IDK
12:37<piero>thanks maxiaojun.... number one is it a question? .... number two i'm not sure i can do that.... number three what is IDK? sorry i am a newbie :)
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12:38<Calinou>idk = i don't know
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12:38<ext5>my system always over heat
12:38<{xmb}>better cooler
12:39<piero>merci calinou....
12:39<ext5>and i have fancontrol installed
12:39<{xmb}>try w/o ?
12:39<{xmb}>my fans are spinning always at too minimal
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12:40<sam_b>ext5 are you sure its not a system load issue try running the top command to see what is running.
12:41<ext5>yea
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12:41<sam_b>That is as long as you think it is not hardware
12:42<piero>does anybody know how to make a user account STORAGELESS? i mean that nothing gets saved in it.... every time you log-in it's as if it's the first time.....
12:42<ext5>and if i run pwmconfig then it set the fan way over 5000rpm
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12:44<sam_b>Piero: how will the users be logging on to the system?
12:46<piero>thanks sam_b.... ok so i just want to do something like in lubuntu..... that for example allows me to let another person use my computer without any problem.....
12:46-!-simplew [~kvirc@vs2-84-91-53-203.netvisao.pt] has joined #debian
12:47<piero>in the main login page lubuntu has a "Guest" user by default and that's exactly what i need here.....
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12:47<sam_b>adduser with the option --no-create-home will add a user account with out a home directoy but im nout sure how LXDE would react
12:48<luka>i got broken grub
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12:48<luka>nagging something about wrong block count
12:48<piero>what do you mean you are not sure how lxde would react?
12:48<piero>i can do damage?
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12:49<luka>but i am unable to reinstall rub, do i need 64 bit os?
12:49<luka>*grub
12:49<SynrG>some programs need to create stuff in HOME. if you don't have one, and LXDE hasn't allowed for it, things might behave
12:49<SynrG>er, misbehave
12:49<piero>hi SynrG.... nice to see you again....
12:50<SynrG>a live system would typically deal with this by allowing storage to ramdisk, but then discarding it upon logout
12:50<piero>so what should i do?
12:50<SynrG>i have no idea what Ubuntu does for its Guest account
12:50<sam_b>No piero you would not create any damange. LXDE needs a place its configuration fies. something like what SynrG said would do.
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12:51<sam_b>Sorry piero I ill have to go I hope you find a solution
12:51<SynrG>i've never had the need for such a thing, so i don't have a ready answer for it.
12:51<piero>ok sam_b thanks
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12:52<SynrG>as a sys admin, i have just granted real accounts with no restrictions to users under my supervision
12:52<luka>did anyone tried ubuntu-secured to fix debian install
12:52<piero>but the guest user is very useful.... for that reason ubuntu and others put it by default.....
12:52<SynrG>losing settings or saved files at logout seems to be too much of a liability for any benefit that might confer
12:53<SynrG>for certain use cases, yes. but not one i've personally ever cared about
12:53<mtn>piero: besides, if a person has access to your computer they can do whatever they want if they have a live disk
12:53<piero>i thought no if i put a password at bios boot....
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12:54<luka>piero you should also consider disk encryption
12:54<SynrG>if they can gain physical access to the chassis they can bypass that, too
12:54<luka>and bios can be also just replaced
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12:55<piero>ok luka, thanks, i will look into that....
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12:56<piero>ok let's just forget of these issues and just do something like in ubuntu..... can i try doing the things that were said before without risk?
12:56<luka>how can i reinstall grub?
12:57<piero>i guess for protection from the common user the ubuntu solution is fine.....
12:57<SynrG>piero: if you want to reinvent Ubuntu's concept of guest account, you probably want to study how they've done it. it's possible they have a more comprehensive solution than random users here giving you tips would come up with
12:58<luka>guest account - just clone grups
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12:59<luka>check witch groups is guest in
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13:00<luka>but for best security i would go with bsd - jails :)
13:00<piero>SynrG.... can i try like this: 1) i create a new user and keep it out of all groups (POWERLESS), (2) i remove password field in /erc/passwd or /etc/shadow (PASSWORDLESS) and (3) i add a script somewhere so that everything gets deleted at log-out (or log-in)....
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13:01<luka>or just apply disk quota
13:01<SynrG>piero: any ad-hoc solution that you can think of probably is a pale shadow of a deliberately designed guest account feature produced by a team of skilled developers.
13:02<SynrG>it is likely it will be so full of holes it's not worth doing
13:02<piero>i am not sure my knowledge will allow me to understand their concept of guest account as you say..... but i guess i can try studying it as you say....
13:02<SynrG>i think want to research how others have actually solved this problem and follow what they've done
13:02<SynrG>rather than asking random people who've never done it before on irc
13:03<ext5>so does anybody else have low rpm issue thats cause to overheat and shut off
13:03<piero>can you tell me where to start reading?
13:03<SynrG>few people possess the skillset to design comprehensive, secure solutions like this.
13:04<ext5>cpu overheating?
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13:04<SynrG>no, i really have no idea. you yourself said Ubuntu has a Guest account, so I guess you would start looking there ...
13:04<SynrG>but I'm not familiar with their doc or support infrastructure so ...
13:04<piero>what is this clone grups thing?
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13:05<SynrG>an overly simplistic off-the-cuff response to your inquiry, i think
13:06<SynrG>(with a typo)
13:07<piero>i dont understand how to learn by looking at ubuntu's guest account.... what do i look at exactly?
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13:09<SynrG>a design document for the feature? the source code? a discussion in a group or mailing list about how to do it? really, you're on your own here.
13:10<piero>SynrG what if i only ask you a script that will delete everything at logout...? (and where to put it)
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13:10<SynrG>the problem is, if you allow the user to write any files at all, they can probably circumvent that
13:11<piero>it's not nice to be on my own :)
13:11<SynrG>making a truly "captive" account is not an easy problem
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13:11<SynrG>well, you're not just asking "how do i do this easy user-servicable thing"
13:11<SynrG>you're asking us to write a new feature for you
13:11<piero>yes but the common person is like me..... they wouldn't know how to do that circumventing thing.....
13:11<SynrG>or else teach you how to be a developer who can write this feature
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13:12<SynrG>"security by obscurity is no security at all"
13:12<perlwizard>piero why do you need a guest user
13:12-!-bigbee [~BigBee@p57ACFF1A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:12<perlwizard>why not a normal user
13:13<SynrG>this is a maxim of the security community. you might as well make no attempt to secure a system if you're just going to rely on "oh, they won't be able to figure it out"
13:13<SynrG>because then it's not just a matter of "if" a breach will occur, but when
13:14<piero>hi perlwizard nice to see you again..... a normal user is fine as long as it's PASSWORDLESS, POWERLESS and STORAGELESS.... it seems like the third is the difficult one.....
13:14<perlwizard>piero why
13:14<perlwizard>can you explain _why_ do you need that user
13:15<perlwizard>passwordless user can be done
13:15<piero>to let someone use my computer without any problem......
13:15<perlwizard>powerless... all of users that aren't root are powerless
13:15<perlwizard>storageless can be done too
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13:16<perlwizard>piero
13:16<perlwizard>does that someone have physical access to the box ?
13:16<piero>box means computer?
13:16<perlwizard>yes
13:17<piero>yes
13:17<perlwizard>piero give up
13:17<perlwizard>can't be done
13:17<perlwizard>end of story
13:17<perlwizard>physical access = game over
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13:17<SynrG>back to what i suggested: make a normal account. supervise the use
13:17<SynrG>when the user no longer needs access, delete the account.
13:17<SynrG>meanwhile, it is convenient if they *can* have some files saved (e.g. web bookmarks, etc.)
13:18<SynrG>there has to be mutual trust
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13:18<SynrG>they need to trust you won't steal facebook passwords, etc. that they might accidentally leave on the system
13:18<SynrG>you need to trust they're not going to be looking for some exploit to run on your system while they're on
13:18<Calinou>you use facebook? you can't be "secure". :)
13:18<SynrG>given that this mutual trust must exist to be "safe", why even bother with a "guest" account?
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13:20<Calinou>there is "secure" and "safe"
13:20<piero>but then why do so many distributions have this damn guest account?
13:20<perlwizard>piero what exactly are your security concers?
13:20<perlwizard>what do you want to prevent
13:20<SynrG>if my distribution had a guest account by default, the first thing i would do is disable it
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13:21<piero>i don't know.... i just know i would like something just like the one in lubuntu (which is also lxde).....
13:21<perlwizard>so you want to solve a problem that you can not describe
13:21<perlwizard>awesome
13:22<piero>sorry i am a newbie....
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13:22<perlwizard>I think this is where you stop and think about what exactly do you want to do, not how
13:22<perlwizard>there are many ways ... to do many things ...
13:22-!-drdanz [~quassel@drdanz.it] has joined #debian
13:22<perlwizard>but first you have to know what your end result looks like
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13:23<SynrG>we've spent enough time now talking about why we, personally (and these are *personal* opinions, and does not reflect what the debian project as a whole thinks of it) think a guest account is a bad idea ...
13:23<SynrG>the fact that some other distributions consider it a good idea doesn't really concern me
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13:24<piero>ok i will stop bothering you guys with this issue and try some ways on my own..... i just want to know if you can tell me a script that i can put somewhere that will delete all saved stuff on log-out.... i think it must not be something complicated for you (if you forget of all the other issues) right?
13:24<SynrG>i don't know why they think it's a good idea. maybe they have thought about all of the problems we've raised and found solutions to them. or maybe they just don't care if it's not secure.
13:24<perlwizard>...
13:25<piero>but i don't think those guys at ubuntu are stupid.....
13:25<perlwizard>I do
13:25<piero>haha...
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13:25<perlwizard>anyway piero, you're doing it wrong
13:26<piero>but if they are stupid how can they be more powerful?
13:26<perlwizard>but it's your system after all; you get to keep all the pieces
13:26<perlwizard>so... do whatever you want
13:26<Calinou>debian user -- hates everything when no op is on
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13:26<piero>i mean ubuntu now is bigger than debian, no?
13:27<SynrG>entirely irrelevant to what debian values vs. what ubuntu values
13:27<piero>maybe they are less concerned on ethics.... but not stupid, i think.....
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13:31<SynrG>let me sum up again: 1. i can't know what their reasons are for wanting this feature, as i haven't talked to them. 2. i can't know if their implementation is one i'd be happy with, i haven't looked at the source. 3. not interested in teaching you how to shoot yourself in the foot. if you want, look at the bash man page and figure out how to shoot yourself in the foot on your own
13:31<piero>like microsoft, apple..... they are bad, but not stupid.... like rms said of stevejobs "evil genius"......
13:31<SynrG>sorry if this seems harsh, but ...
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13:32<SynrG>any way i can think of off the top of my head, i can almost immediately think of a trivial way to get around it.
13:32<piero>but SynrG i think you overestimate the computer abilities of the average italian.....
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13:33<SynrG>here's a gun with the safety off ... now, i may overestimate your abilities with a gun, but i'm pretty sure you could figure out how to shoot yourself in the foot with it
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13:37<perlwizard>piero It's not that we overestimate the computer abilities of the average italian
13:37<perlwizard>it's that you're grossly overestimating your computer abilities right now
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13:39<piero>i know i know little (or nothing)... but i thought this would be something easy for you.... i didn't imagine it could be so complicated as this.....
13:40<perlwizard>it is hard
13:40<perlwizard>there is no easy way to do it
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13:41<piero>ok..... i give up then..... thank you anyways for the attention......
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13:45<crypticmofo>is dpkg the best option for a .deb
13:45<crypticmofo>meaning is it the best tool to modify / tweak / work with a .deb ?
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13:45<crypticmofo>i was readin teh manual and it talks about an ar commnad
13:45<engla>dpkg is better yes
13:45<dpkg>engla: i haven't a clue
13:45<crypticmofo>ar (1) - create, modify, and extract from archives
13:46<crypticmofo>i just want to look up info on teh .deb before i install it
13:46<engla>crypticmofo: man dpkg-deb
13:46<crypticmofo>i know its safe i just want to look
13:46<crypticmofo>ok engla thanks
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13:47<crypticmofo>oh nice
13:47<crypticmofo>-I
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13:54<piero>another question..... hopefully less complicated.... how do you put automatic updates?
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13:55<piero>i mean that when the computer is connected to the internet they get done automatically....
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13:57<perlwizard>piero there is a tool called cron-apt
13:57<perlwizard>but it's usually not recommended
13:58<piero>why?
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13:58<perlwizard>sometimes there are important news that come with updates
13:58<perlwizard>you're expected to read and understand them
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13:59<piero>news like what? i never saw any....
13:59<crypticmofo>so i just isntalled a printer with dpkg -i <printer.deb< right so i did a dpkg -l 'epson*' and i can see the driver ii epson-inkjet-pr it shows that right
13:59<perlwizard>piero news like incompatible changes in software
13:59<crypticmofo>do i do a dpkg -L to get what files where installed ?
13:59<perlwizard>or changes in the way you use it
14:00<perlwizard>crypticmofo try it and see
14:00<crypticmofo>i found it
14:00<perlwizard>also, man dpkg
14:00<crypticmofo>aptitude search ~i~n'(epson)
14:00<crypticmofo>i found the actual name
14:00<crypticmofo>i know what to do now
14:00<crypticmofo>dpkg only shows some of the name
14:00<dpkg>crypticmofo: parse error: dunno what the heck you're talking about
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14:03<piero>is there an official beginner guide to debian?
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14:05<crypticmofo>you should install debian-faq debian-handbook debian-kernel-handbook debian-reference
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14:06<piero>thanks crypticmofo
14:06<crypticmofo>http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/
14:06<crypticmofo>yea
14:06<crypticmofo>piero: i was told to install it .. i been on debian like a week lol
14:07<piero>:)
14:07<crypticmofo>but im doing research everyday so im more familar now then i was a week ago
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14:07<crypticmofo>im dual booting archlinux and debian .. im still on archlinux cause i was using its swapfile and and soemthing else
14:07<crypticmofo>im going to be removing arch this week
14:07<crypticmofo>:D
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14:08<piero>but you are linux expert already then..... i here arch is for the tough guys.....
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14:08<piero>typo "hear" not "here"
14:09<crypticmofo>piero: nope .. i know enough to break a system :D but no im not a beginner
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14:09<crypticmofo>im a n00b to debian
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14:09<crypticmofo>i been on almost all distros
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14:10<piero>so what are your comments on them (the distros)? i still need to see many.....
14:11<sney>!ot
14:11<dpkg>#debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
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14:14<piero>oops sorry..... so i go to debian-offtopic.....
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14:14<SynrG>piero: news like "with this version *blah* has been upgraded and as a consequence if you have used *foo* you must do *bar* for it to keep working." things that can't be automatically fixed by a package upgrade.
14:15<SynrG>(answering your earlier question about what the news is about)
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14:19-!-mode/#debian [+l 562] by debhelper
14:19<stderr>When I use cron-apt, I usually configure it to only download the packages, but not install them. When I later want to do an actual upgrade, the packages are already there.
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14:20<pepemostro>xdcc list
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14:21<piero>ok thanks...going now
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14:21<crypticmofo>SynrG: so in #debian-offtopic we can talk about other distros ?
14:22<SynrG>why is this directed at me? and sure
14:22<piero>crypticmofo nice talking to you.... have to go now.... but maybe next time we meet in debian-offtopic you give me some advice on the distros..... bye :)
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14:25<crypticmofo>cause you thru out #debian-offtopic
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14:26<SynrG>crypticmofo: uh, no
14:26<SynrG>sney did, i think
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14:26<crypticmofo>my bad
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14:26<crypticmofo>im dual booting archlinux and debian .. im still on archlinux cause i was using its swapfile and and soemthing else
14:27<stderr>What swapfile?
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14:28<crypticmofo>stderr: is that for me ?
14:28<stderr>Yes.
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14:28<crypticmofo>yea it was sney
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14:29<stderr>You can use a swap _file_ on Debian too. I do so on one of my boxes.
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15:37<toni_>hi
15:38-!-zykotick9 [~ZykoticK9@206-47-13-1.dsl.ncf.ca] has joined #debian
15:38<streuner_>buona sera
15:38-!-chitchat [~guest@218-214-24-203.people.net.au] has joined #debian
15:38<toni_>can you help me compiling a driver in debian squeeze ?
15:38<toni_>I get a lot of errros
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15:39<streuner_>what kind of driver, isnt it in M-L?
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15:40<streuner_>toni_: we need more details
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15:40<toni_>I downloaded driver from here: http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/VCP.htm
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15:40<toni_>linux - 64 bit
15:40<toni_>I did make and got a lot of erros
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15:42<toni_>please let me know if I really need to compile it or it's already in the kernel
15:42-!-DebianLover [~mo@c108133.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #debian
15:42<toni_>2.6.32-5-amd64
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15:43<streuner_>toni_: well, i only see this http://www.ftdichip.com/Support/Documents/InstallGuides.htm ...
15:44-!-Freeren [~Freeren@193.48.172.27] has joined #debian
15:44<toni_>this is the manual: http://www.sigma-shop.com/manuals/usb_one_relay_box_manual.pdf
15:44<toni_>take a look at the last page
15:44<toni_>about linux
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15:46<streuner_>toni_: if its not in Debian, you need to know what kind of -dev packages you have to installed
15:47<streuner_>toni_: the manual should tell you about
15:47-!-themill [~stuart@themill.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:47<toni_>it doesn't say anything about debian
15:47<toni_>when I do locate ftdi_sio
15:48<toni_>I get: locate ftdi_sio
15:48<toni_>/lib/modules/2.6.32-5-amd64/kernel/drivers/usb/serial/ftdi_sio.ko
15:48<streuner_>according to the first URL it isnt a wonder
15:48<toni_>my question is:
15:48<toni_>is it the same I'm trying to compile?
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16:02<jparkton>afternoon debs
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16:03<ring1>is there something similar to /etc/rc.local but for execution at shutdown instead of boot?
16:03-!-resmo_ [~moserre@adsl-89-217-243-159.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:03<formorer>@shutdown in cron
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16:07<whitehat>hi
16:07<jparkton>ohai
16:07<whitehat>how are you
16:07<jparkton>cum si cum sa
16:07<whitehat>jparkton how are you...
16:07<ring1>formorer, nice
16:07<streuner_>toni_: no idea, i would use modinfo
16:07<jparkton>whitehat: I am well
16:07<whitehat>good :p
16:08-!-DebianLover [~mo@c108133.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving]
16:08<jparkton>:|
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16:08<whitehat>give me your skype
16:08<whitehat>pseudo
16:08<streuner_>it isnt installed here ;-)
16:09<jparkton>heh
16:09<jparkton>skype on deb
16:09<jparkton>like photoshop on deb
16:09<ring1>formorer, is it better to use crontab -e or edit /etc/crontab?
16:09<whitehat>and me i like photoshop cs6.0
16:09<abrotman>whitehat: do you have a Debian question ?
16:10<streuner_>hm
16:10*streuner_ thought the same
16:10<formorer>ring1: none of them. use /etc/cron.d/
16:10<whitehat>abrotman ..no
16:10<abrotman>whitehat: this channel is for Debian support
16:11<whitehat>ahhhhhhhhh ok
16:11<whitehat>sorry
16:11<ring1>alright, so i edit anacron, correct?
16:11<formorer>anacron is something totally different. cron.d is just parsed by normal cron
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16:17<jparkton>whats that paste service users can install?
16:17<jparkton>ix.io or somethin?
16:17-!-fisted [~fisted@xdsl-87-78-14-229.netcologne.de] has joined #debian
16:17<streuner_>!paste
16:17<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: http://paste.debian.net/ http://pastie.org/ or http://picpaste.com/ for pics. Use wikisend.com for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>.
16:17<jparkton>streuner_: Oh users can install http://www.pastie.org as a service on their machine?
16:18<jparkton>thats a cool trick
16:18<streuner_>nah
16:18<ring1>formorer, i'm slow on the uptake today, sorry. so i'm supposed to put a file containing my commands with leading @shutdown in /etc/cron.d/ and this will get executed at next shutdown?
16:18<toni_>is it possibile with find and stat and EXT4 to get information about file creation time ??
16:18<jparkton>im looking for a package that is installed, which pastes code to a site, I followed a link onetime ix.io or something close to that
16:18<streuner_>jparkton: i dont see a reason to install a paste service on your machine
16:19<formorer>ring1: the format in cron.d has one column more, it includes a user after the timespec. just drop a file inside cron.d
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16:19<ring1>formorer, thanks. does the separation matter? spaces or tabs?
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16:20<ring1>jparkton, maybe pastebinit?
16:20<jparkton>oh maybe
16:20<formorer>any kind of whitespace (see man 5 crontab)
16:21<streuner_>!+tell jparkton -about pastebinit
16:21-!-zkutch [~zkutch@85.117.33.89] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:21<dpkg>told jparkton about pastebinit.
16:21<jparkton>nah
16:22<streuner_>sure
16:22<jparkton>actually if I had just looked for it I would have found it
16:22<jparkton>I thought I was wrong but turns out this time no women were present so i defaulted to correct
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16:22<jparkton>
16:22<jparkton>http://ix.io/
16:24-!-luke [~luke@95.236.173.127] has joined #debian
16:24<streuner_>jparkton: why do you need this URL at all?
16:25<streuner_>jparkton: you need pastebinit to post text without using a GUI
16:25<jparkton>where does it post to?
16:25<jparkton>pastebin?
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16:26<streuner_>jparkton: pastebin.org/com or something similar, who cares?
16:26<streuner_>yes
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16:27<ring1>i believe you can define, where it posts to
16:27<jparkton>I care
16:27<streuner_>why
16:27<jparkton>otherwise I would just paste to whateveriwant.com
16:28<streuner_>argh, you are pretty paranoid then
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16:28<streuner_>_WHO_ cares WHATEVER you posted...
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16:29<jparkton>no actually it is mental disorders. I dont like the way pastebin.com looks, I dont like the way the ads are. Its partially OCD but feel free to ridicule me for my personal reasons
16:30<streuner_>true
16:30<streuner_>but, thats another problem
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16:46<pskosinski>paste.debian.org?
16:46-!-nereo [~nereo@cablelink127-224.telefonia.intercable.net] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
16:46<jparkton>I prefer gist
16:46<pskosinski>net
16:46<jparkton>but ix.io allows me to use the command line which I like more than copy pasta
16:47<pskosinski>I prefer wklej.org but it's not popular and people are scared >.>
16:47<jparkton>probably due to the domain name
16:47-!-__iron [~tobias@2001:7c0:e701:4a01:725a:b6ff:fe85:5b73] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:48<pskosinski>maybe…
16:48<jparkton>looks nice though
16:48-!-torx [~torx@p4FCBFA76.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:48<jparkton>im sure wklej is something in ..
16:48<jparkton>czech?
16:48<jparkton>serbian?
16:48<pskosinski>Polish, it means just "paste"
16:48<jparkton>ahhh
16:49<jparkton>makes sense to me
16:49<jparkton>I used to know some polish phrases but it slips me
16:50<jparkton>so [insert cool bro phrase here]
16:50<pskosinski>ah, wklej.org is still in polish. :(
16:51<pskosinski>I thought that maybe they are displaying language depending on domain… but no
16:51<jparkton>yeah
16:52<jparkton>I mean not totally pol but mostly
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16:52<jparkton>the languages , perl, python, ruby etc are in english
16:52<pskosinski>yeah :P
16:52<pskosinski>they have no polish versions
16:52<plage>Hi. I just became aware of 'defoma' the debian font manager. Will this interfere in any way with font installation, or can I safely remove it?
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16:54<jparkton>if it is a font manager I would assume it would effect fonts
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16:54<plage>it's supposedly deprecated
16:55<plage>http://wiki.debian.org/OldPkgRemovals
16:55<plage>but I'm having trouble installing a font
16:55<plage>so I'm wondering if defoma could be interfering
16:55<jparkton>I guess you could tias
16:55<jparkton>but I wouldnt be surprised
16:56<plage>tias?
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16:56<plage>I removed it with apt just a moment ago
16:56<plage>hasn't killed me yet :)
16:56<jparkton>tias = try it and see
16:56<jparkton>cool
16:57<jparkton>reboot and see if its kosher
16:57<plage>it hasn't fixed my font issue though
16:57-!-pskosinski [~pskosinsk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:58<plage>I'm trying to install a pcf (bitmap) font. I've stuffed it in /usr/share/fonts/local, updated my fontpath, xset fp rehash, and updated the font cache (fc-cache -fv)..
16:58-!-ring2 [~ring0@dslb-088-068-124-132.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #debian
16:58<plage>however it doesn't show up in fc-list
16:58<plage>it shows up in xlsfonts and xfontsel
16:58<jparkton>i dunno main
16:58<plage>but NOT fc-list for some godforsaken reason
16:58<jparkton><not the font guy
16:59-!-pskosinski [~pskosinsk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #debian
16:59<jparkton>did you reboot it?
17:00<plage>no, but I restarte X, which is all I should need to do
17:00<jparkton>true
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17:02<myubuntu>hi
17:03<jparkton>0.o
17:03<jparkton>hello
17:03<myubuntu>i am one problem in printing page on qt creator
17:03<myubuntu>i havae
17:04<jparkton>dont we all
17:04-!-ring1 [~ring0@dslb-084-059-150-140.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:04<stderr>Not me.
17:05<jparkton>but your an error
17:05<jparkton>so not important
17:05<myubuntu>I've got a problem printing pages qt
17:05<jparkton>:P
17:05<sney>!ubuntuirc myubuntu
17:05<dpkg>myubuntu: This is not the Ubuntu help channel. Please do /server chat.freenode.net and then /join #ubuntu. If you are using XChat, you can right-click the following link and choose connect. irc://chat.freenode.net/ubuntu
17:05<stderr>I have never used it...
17:05<jparkton><-neither
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17:10<toni_>in which packages is contained /usr/bin/w ??
17:10<abrotman>!tell toni_ about apt-file
17:11<toni_>I tried
17:11<plage>procps
17:11<toni_>but I don't understand where it is
17:11<plage>I had a problem with w recently
17:11<abrotman>toni_: apt-file search bin/w
17:11<plage>got fixed in an update
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17:12<toni_>ok procps
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17:16<Merovoth>Hey, anyone know where the login themes for Debian6 are, now?
17:17<Merovoth>Thanks!
17:18<daemonkeeper>Assuming you mean the spacefun theme, install desktop-base.
17:18<Merovoth>I love you, Man.
17:19-!-mode/#debian [+l 538] by debhelper
17:19<Merovoth>I do have them installed. I just don't know how to get to them.
17:19<abrotman>with what?
17:19<Merovoth>Dude! Are you in here, too?
17:20<abrotman>...
17:20-!-deyniree [~deyniree@190.206.60.34] has joined #debian
17:20<Merovoth>I used to access them in the System drop-down, I think. Or, even, from the login screen. It seems like things got changed around, since Deb5.
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17:22<Merovoth>Yeah. It's gone, now. Too bad.
17:22<wompa>Merovoth, do you want to use another theme?
17:23<Merovoth>Yes. But, what I really want is just to set another background. One that lets me display a message, with the domain & stuff.
17:23-!-ring1 [~ring0@dslb-088-068-115-237.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #debian
17:23<Merovoth>There used to be a couple of nice ones. One of a big LOTR-looking eye & another of reddish pillars.
17:24<wompa>Merovoth, in a shell or ...?
17:24<Merovoth>Not, a terminal, if that's what you mean.
17:24<Merovoth>The login screen.
17:24<wompa>Yes, I meant that
17:24<Merovoth>Praise God!
17:25<plage>what's your DM?
17:25<plage>xdm, gdm?
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17:25<wompa>Merovoth, thanks for praising me, but I really don't need it
17:25<Merovoth>You mean like GTK? Man, I really don't know. I was just wondering about that, earlier. Is there a prerequisite for using login themes?
17:26<Merovoth>Actually, I was praising myself. But, it's all good.
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17:28<Merovoth>Sorry, plage.
17:28<plage>I mean what login program do you use that needs 'themeing'?
17:28<plage>gdm comes with gnome
17:29<plage>xdm comes with X11
17:29<plage>those are the only two I can think of right now, kde has its own
17:29<Merovoth>Am I using the wrong terminology? Do you know what I mean by the graphic?
17:29<plage>but I don't know the name
17:29<plage>yes I know what you mean
17:29<plage>a skin for your login screen
17:29<Merovoth>Yeah, that sounds like what I mean.
17:30<Merovoth>I'm using whatever Deb Squeeze installs as.
17:31<Merovoth>They probably don't support it, anymore.
17:31<plage>it's definitely supported, but you're probably going to get your hands dirty
17:31<plage>:)
17:31<plage>welcome to linux
17:31<Merovoth>Hehehe
17:31<plage>since I don't use any of that stuff I can't help you, sorry :x
17:31<Merovoth>I know that they weren't all that consistent in format, before.
17:32<Merovoth>If nothing else, it would be nice to change the light blue one that comes up, now.
17:32<Merovoth>I'll bet that's still in the works.
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17:34<Merovoth>Is everyone, in here, using "cloaks", or what? Most everyone's coming up with an "@" instead of an IP. I'd like that.
17:36<Merovoth>Thanks!
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17:36<perlwizard>I don't think anyone is using a cloak here
17:37<wompa>he's gone
17:37<perlwizard>okay :/
17:37<abrotman>yes, some have them here
17:38<perlwizard>any idea how to get one?
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17:38<abrotman>it's rare
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17:49<pskosinski>http://www.oftc.net/oftc/UserCloaks
17:50<pskosinski>On freenode they give them away, here not :P
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17:50<daemonkeeper>You need to be important(tm) to get one in OFTC.
17:50<toni_>how to show permissions in ls in octal format??
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17:53<SynrG>i don't think it can
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17:55<SynrG>toni_: stat -c%a filename
17:55-!-rickbol [~rickbol@cpe-071-075-105-197.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:56<SynrG>toni_: with more complicated stat format strings and a find pipeline, you're all set :)
17:56<toni_>ok
17:57<toni_>and what about if I want to use find to get a list of all file with x (executable) permission set
17:57<toni_>?
17:57<toni_>like --xrwx---
17:57<toni_>or rwx---rwx
17:57<toni_>or --x------
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18:00<SynrG>toni_: see the find man page on '-perm' and the EXAMPLE section
18:00<SynrG>EXAMPLES* i mean
18:00-!-fisted [~fisted@xdsl-87-78-15-2.netcologne.de] has joined #debian
18:01<toni_>ok -executable
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18:03<SynrG>toni_: find . -perm -a+x -print0 | xargs -0 stat -c'%a %n\n'
18:03<SynrG>putting them together (if that's what you wanted?)
18:03<plage>do you want find only or something piped to/from find?
18:04-!-wissem [~localhost@197.1.204.202] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:04<SynrG>i'm guessing "find stuff with the executable bit set, then show octal perms"
18:04<SynrG>that's what the above does anyway
18:05<SynrG>or, hm
18:05<toni_>it doesn't work well
18:05<toni_>-r-------x c
18:05<plage>I'm curious what you need this for
18:05<toni_>c is not match
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18:06<SynrG>find . -perm /a+x -print0 | xargs -0 stat -c'%a %n\n'
18:06<SynrG>^^ works if *any* x bit is set
18:06<SynrG>-a+x is the wrong form. that's if *all* x bits are set. sorry
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18:07<plage>what I would do
18:07<toni_>why using \n ?
18:07-!-Wyzard [~mike@pool-72-81-139-207.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Client exiting]
18:07<SynrG>because i forgot to delete it
18:07-!-luciani [~luciani@201.243.165.80] has quit []
18:07<plage>is pipe ls to awk, grab the first column, then grep for x
18:07<toni_>ok
18:07<plage>you could do that probably with a find -exec
18:08<toni_>find seems a bit complicated to understand
18:09<SynrG>it has a learing curve. but is very powerful when you catch on
18:09<SynrG>so i'd encourage you to try
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18:17<toni_>are you expert in recompiling packages?
18:17<SynrG>there are many "experts" here of many kinds. just ask your question
18:17-!-Grand [~user@50.102.77.252] has joined #debian
18:17<nevyn>!ask
18:17<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
18:17<SynrG>(fsvo "expert" ... basically at least one chapter ahead of you in the text is sufficient ;)
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18:18<toni_>I would like to recompile a package using adding a switch option to gcc
18:18<toni_>(-g)
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18:19<toni_>I did apt-get souce coreutils
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18:19<nevyn>right.
18:19<toni_>how to add that switch ?
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18:20<nevyn>bleh autotools make this harder than it used to be.
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18:20<engla>toni_: generally edit debian/rules
18:21<pskosinski>CXXFLAGS=-g ?
18:21-!-MysPys [~myspys@ptr.hakk.me] has joined #debian
18:21<pskosinski>but some apps are overwriting instead of add what they need >.>
18:24<toni_>so where I should add my -g ?
18:26-!-q66 [~q66@213.191.105.214] has quit [Quit: Quit]
18:26<pskosinski>How are you recompiling? make clean install? Then: "export CXXFLAGS=-g" (in case of c++) or "export CFLAGS=-g" (in case of c) and then make clean install, should work.
18:26-!-devil [~devil@dslb-088-072-199-170.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:26<pskosinski>In most cases… afaik
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18:28<toni_>I just did this: apt-get source coreutils; ./configure ; make and ls seems containig symbols
18:28<toni_>why ls in the system doesn't contain symbols??
18:29<toni_>Reading symbols from /bin/ls...(no debugging symbols found)...done.
18:29<toni_>Reading symbols from /home/deb/coreutils-8.5/src/ls...done.
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18:33<engla>toni_: open ./debian/rules of your package
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18:37<toni_>ok
18:38<toni_>and what about if I'd like to extract from the coreutils source package only the ls source file and put it in a new directory with all files needed to compiled it ??
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18:43<sney>Toni_ you should really read the nmg to understand this stuff
18:43<sney>Dpkg tell Toni_ about nmg
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19:01<pskosinski>Why to have support to copy to X clipboard I need to install vim-gtk? Wouldn't it be good to add it to just vim…? Probably all vim users are using it…
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19:04<abrotman>using X?
19:05<plage>use xclip
19:05<pskosinski>using terminal in X ^^
19:05<plage>you need an external program to do it because vim uses its own buffers
19:05-!-x3dre_ [~smuxi@65.48.196.123] has joined #debian
19:05<plage>vim-gtk probably has a bunch of buffer merging stuff in it
19:05<pskosinski>hm, ok, ty
19:06<plage>you can probably rig up a command in your vimrc to do it with xclip
19:06-!-x3dre [~smuxi@69.73.254.213] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
19:06<plage>but that's beyond my paygrade
19:07<pskosinski>yes, it's even in vim's wiki ^^
19:07-!-lcabreza [~Lynx@pal01cs002.americas.hp.net] has joined #debian
19:07<plage>ah, perfect :P
19:07<plage>pskosinski: mind linking that? I might start using it :P
19:07<pskosinski>http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/GNU/Linux_clipboard_copy/paste_with_xclip
19:07<plage>tyty :D
19:08-!-dckx [~dckx@dslb-188-108-235-018.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #debian
19:08<pskosinski>np
19:09<dckx>hi. I'm looking for a python module to drop privileges in my script. I prefer to use python modules packaged in debian, but I can't find any. Did I miss something?
19:09<dckx>Something like this would be awesome: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/drop_privileges/
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19:10<rudi_s>dckx: Just drop them. What do you need more?
19:11<rudi_s>dckx: Check the os module and use the set*() functions.
19:12<dckx>I would have to write could that isn't about what I wanted to do, if you know what I mean.
19:12<dckx>Also, this would prevent potentcial security issues
19:12<dckx>Like, somebody forgot to drop additional groups
19:13<rudi_s>dckx: Yeah. AFAIK python doesn't has something by default. But it's just a few lines ..
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19:14<dckx>hm. yes, maybe you're right
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19:14<TheLaughingMan>Does anyone know how to check to see what is causing a computer to slow down?
19:15<TheLaughingMan>I am having issues with a server I help maintain and for some reason this server is having some issues with things just taking so long
19:15-!-dvs [~Colin@cwv.teksavvy.com] has joined #debian
19:15<dckx>TheLaughingMan: try htop
19:16-!-fike [~Fernando@189-68-179-105.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #debian
19:16<rudi_s>iotop might als be a good idea.
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19:17<TheLaughingMan>Is there any reason for multiple apache2 processes?
19:17<abrotman>yes
19:19-!-nadir [~molloy@f050185066.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
19:20<TheLaughingMan>I just noticed multiple ones running, was confused about that for a second
19:20<TheLaughingMan>Anything I am looking for with htop?
19:22<dckx>processes with high cpu load are listed on the top of the list
19:22<LtL>TheLaughingMan: paste output of 'uptime' use 'top' or 'ps aux' for memory hogs
19:23-!-Anonynous [~Anonynous@host109-151-67-115.range109-151.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:24<LtL>TheLaughingMan: you may also be getting DDoS's, that'll do it too.
19:24-!-kilelme [~kilelme@120.168.1.242] has joined #debian
19:25<LtL>err, DDoS'd
19:25<TheLaughingMan>Well a few proccesses spike to 70% from time to time, but overall across all 12 cores its belore 50% usually
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19:27<LtL>TheLaughingMan: it's relative, how much is it 'serving'? if its working hard that'll happen, look at uptime
19:27-!-desulator [~desulator@adsl-215-233-227.kymp.net] has joined #debian
19:27<LtL>TheLaughingMan: anything over 9's is worth looking into. with uptime
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19:31<TheLaughingMan>9's what?
19:31<TheLaughingMan>Anything with an uptime over 9 seconds?
19:31<LtL>TheLaughingMan: example one line type in irc client /exec -o uptime
19:32<LtL>no not the uptime but usage
19:33<LtL>TheLaughingMan: provided your on that server that'll work, otherwise what does uptime say
19:33<LtL>TheLaughingMan: uptime is the quickest way to see how hard the box is working
19:34<TheLaughingMan>18:29:16 up 16 days, 10:50, 3 users, load average: 8.04, 9.41, 9.36
19:35<LtL>TheLaughingMan: ok, thats a busy server but not critical. use ps aux to see whats using the power
19:35<TheLaughingMan>http://i.imgur.com/yVcRs.png
19:36<nevyn>load < ncpu's is ok
19:36<LtL>TheLaughingMan: java and minecraft
19:37<plage>jesus
19:37<plage>am I reading that right.. 30 gigs?
19:38<plage>lol @ 81mb swap
19:38<plage>wow man
19:39<plage>what kind of server is that?
19:40<nevyn>a little one?
19:40<nevyn>it's only got 8 cores and 32gig of ram
19:40<TheLaughingMan>12 cores
19:40-!-Ehtyar [ehtyar@pinky-and-the-brain.will-take.over-the-world.org] has joined #debian
19:40<LtL>TheLaughingMan: i would'nt worry if it doesnt go over those figures in uptime.
19:40<nevyn>oh no 12 cores
19:40<plage>am I just behind the times, or is that a beast of a server?
19:40<nevyn>hex cpus
19:40<nevyn>plage: you're behind the times.
19:40<abrotman>plage: not really ..
19:40<TheLaughingMan>It's 2 6-Core CPUs
19:40<plage>damn
19:40<nevyn>plage: that's a 2socket box
19:41<nevyn>plage: x86 now scales to 8way 10cores per with a half terrabyte of ram
19:41-!-sidmo [~ilven@p5489F27F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debian
19:41<abrotman>plage: 32GB of RAM isn't that big of a deal .. and 12 cores is more than average I'd say .. but depends on the application
19:41<nevyn>DL960 now that's a beast
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19:42<plage>slightly less than 2 per core.. seems alright
19:42<plage>but I had no idea servers could be so beefy
19:42<nevyn>have you tested the workload with ht on?
19:43<nevyn>LtL: is it opteron or xeon?
19:43<TheLaughingMan>Opteron
19:43<nevyn>so no ht ...
19:43<nevyn>hrm
19:43-!-root_byte [~cfetbb@189-69-159-27.dial-up.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:43<LtL>nevyn: it's not mine :)
19:43<TheLaughingMan>I know
19:43-!-lmbeta8 [~lmbeta8@bas2-montreal47-1128591592.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #debian
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19:44<nevyn>LtL: sorry pebkac
19:44<TheLaughingMan>I have a ps aux output but for some reason it's having issues dling of the server
19:44-!-gcaldwell [~gcaldwell@c-71-59-77-219.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit []
19:44<plage>probably because it's too cool for you
19:44-!-AzaToth [~azatoth@h87-96-232-177.dynamic.se.alltele.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:44<nevyn>TheLaughingMan: so that box looks.. busy but ok.
19:45<nevyn>to me.
19:45<LtL>TheLaughingMan: your bandwidth is likely peaked.
19:45<TheLaughingMan>We aren't using all out bandwidth
19:45-!-lmbeta8 [~lmbeta8@bas2-montreal47-1128591592.dsl.bell.ca] has quit []
19:45<nevyn>what about in?
19:45-!-w1res [~Thunderbi@24-177-56-139.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #debian
19:46<TheLaughingMan>http://i.imgur.com/FNyBO.png
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19:47-!-hele_ [~hele@212-149-192-161.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:47<nevyn>so 100mbits
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19:48<TheLaughingMan>http://pastebin.com/futnhuks
19:48<nevyn>you have multiple gigabits out of this box?
19:48<TheLaughingMan>?
19:48-!-sidmo_ [~ilven@p5489FC09.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:48<nevyn>you're sending a gigabit a second
19:49<plage>104.587 KB
19:49<nevyn>oh k not m.
19:49<nevyn>my bad.
19:49<plage>it doesn't seem that fast
19:49<nevyn>that's only a megabit/sec
19:49<plage>or am I crazy
19:49<plage>yeah
19:49<nevyn>yeah it's not. I suck
19:49<plage>naw I stared at it for 5 minutes thinking .. "How???"
19:49<plage>look at all the shit running
19:49<plage>that's impressive
19:50<plage>I mean I could do that with my home connection
19:50<plage>not the upload
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19:50<TheLaughingMan>we have 100 Megabit/s for our rack, we have 3 of these in there and another smaller server and we only get about 25 Megabit/s
19:50<plage>you're just making me more jealous
19:51<LtL>TheLaughingMan: mc231 is using alot of cpu, but probably normal. i'm not a minecrafter
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19:52<TheLaughingMan>http://i.imgur.com/vtxyT.png
19:53<abrotman>KGB eh?
19:54<plage>that's what I thought too
19:54<plage>only way he could get such great hardware
19:54<plage>and use it to play minecraft
19:54<TheLaughingMan>KBG not KGB
19:55<nevyn>TheLaughingMan: become a squeaky wheel. (providers lie)
19:55-!-noid [~noid@161.122.216.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #debian
19:55<TheLaughingMan>Anyways
19:55<TheLaughingMan>I don't know what is wrong with this server
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19:59-!-mode/#debian [+l 520] by debhelper
19:59<TheLaughingMan>http://i.imgur.com/OD9Jq.png
20:02<MysPys>TheLaughingMan: u can allways use htop for better view
20:02-!-rage [~rage@hel59-4-88-160-125-53.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
20:03<TheLaughingMan>http://i.imgur.com/yVcRs.png
20:03<TheLaughingMan>Already did
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20:15<LtL>TheLaughingMan: it'll probably settle down, keep an eye on uptime.
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20:18<TheLaughingMan>I restarted all the Minecraft Servers, Apache, and Mysql
20:19-!-Blacker47 [~Blacker47@p57A905B3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
20:19<TheLaughingMan>I just noticed alot of the servers have been on for for more then 90 hours
20:19<TheLaughingMan>Is there a problem with iotop and os raids?
20:19-!-simplew [~kvirc@vs2-84-91-53-203.netvisao.pt] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.3.1 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/]
20:20<TheLaughingMan>Cause when I use it I only see writes and nothing on reads
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20:24<stderr>TheLaughingMan: When writing to a RAID, you need to write to all the discs. When reading, you only need to read from one.
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20:25<stderr>Or maybe I misunderstood your question.
20:25-!-Baloo [~baloo@mb15336d0.tmodns.net] has joined #debian
20:26<stderr>Actually that's not always true. It depends on the kind of RAID. But you get the point.
20:27-!-Anonynous [~Anonynous@host109-151-67-115.range109-151.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:28<TheLaughingMan>Like I use iotop to try and see what r/w usage of processes and it doesn't measure reads only writes
20:28-!-adb [~IonMoldom@178-211-235-11.dhcp.voenergies.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:29<TheLaughingMan>And like I use htop and add the IO Rates and it shows 0
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20:30<stderr>What kind of reads? Maybe you're reading from the cache.
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20:32<duxklr>You can test that theory by running 'ls -alR /'
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20:35<imnew>hi
20:35<sney>hi
20:36<imnew>im kinda lost i just put zorn linux on here can ya point me were i should be
20:36<sney>never even heard of that one
20:37-!-iflema [~Ian@CPE-121-217-224-86.lnse3.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #debian
20:37<imnew>i might of speld it wrong but its close i like it just cant get sound in chat room
20:37-!-nadir1 [~molloy@g224240081.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #debian
20:37<imnew>lol same thing when i tryd puppy
20:38<sney>why don't you go to the site where you downloaded it and find out that way
20:38<stderr>imnew: "Zorin"?
20:38-!-taiten [~TaitenP@175.41.48.77] has joined #debian
20:39<sney>;][[
20:39<imnew>i dont know if thay got a room and yes i did spell it wrong sorry
20:39<sney>looks like it's #zorinos on freenode
20:39<sney>irc://chat.freenode.net/zorinos <-- right click connect
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20:40<imnew>rite clik aint working
20:40<sney>then type /server chat.freenode.net and in the new tab type /join #zorinos
20:40<imnew>how do i get there im sorry im not good with this stuff
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20:42<stderr>I wonder why a distro build on Ubuntu defaults to this IRC channel...
20:43-!-nadir [~molloy@g224242120.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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20:43<sney>stderr: because for a while, ubuntu didn't change the default xchat.conf after forking sid
20:44<sney>they have changed it now but there are still a fair number of based-ons with the old config
20:45<stderr>So neither Ubuntu nor Zorin did (part of) their job?
20:45-!-nadir1 [~molloy@g224240081.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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20:45<sney>yep
20:46<sney>and it was never the default, but it was the first server option at the top of the list. so if a new user launched xchat and pushed connect without looking at anything, they would come here. it's the same reason we get spaniards spamming the channel with 'olaaaaaaaaaaa'
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20:47<stderr>Hmm, maybe someone should suggest putting a dummy server (like 127.0.0.1) as the first option.
20:48<sney>eh, ubuntu already fixed it in theirs so any new based-on-ubuntus will follow. it's just the older versions still floating around that have the problem.
20:48<sney>some DDs suggested having the xchat postinst be smart about what OS it's being installed on
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20:52<Super-Nathan>hey guys I have a question:
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20:53<Super-Nathan>I have a server, and I told a friend he could put his minecraft server on it. he wants to be able to start and stop it (via a script I have in the /etc/init) but i dont want to give him full sudo power
20:54<Super-Nathan>what would the line in the suders file look like to only give him sudo power to the cone cammand when the one cammand is "sudo start minecraft-server"
20:54<Super-Nathan>since it is a script that runs a java executable its confusing, its not just giving access to a bin in /usr/bin
20:54<Super-Nathan>unless it would be /usr/bin/java ?
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20:57<stderr>Are you sure it's not enough to give him permission to run the /etc/init script?
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20:58<Super-Nathan>no i'n not sure
20:58<plage>stderr: how do we know it's you talking and not some faulty application?
20:58<Super-Nathan>so i could just do "$USERNAME ALL=NOPASSWD /etc/init/minecraft-server.conf"
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20:59<stderr>plage: A faulty application writes TO stderr, not FROM. :-)
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20:59<plage>stderr: there is a > after your name in my client :P
21:00<stderr>:-)
21:00<Super-Nathan>what you think?
21:00<stderr>plage: That reminds me: Stop sending all the output from your client to me!
21:00<plage>oops, sorry, heh
21:01<plage>I hope mr dev_null isn't here :o
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21:01<stderr>Super-Nathan: *.conf is an odd name for a script...
21:01<duxklr>Super-Nathan: You can change the start/stop command to something like /etc/init.d/mincraft-server st*
21:01<Super-Nathan>everything in /etc/init has a .conf
21:01<duxklr>So they can run start and stop (which is what I assume you want)
21:01<Super-Nathan>but it is not in itit.d its in it
21:01<Super-Nathan>init
21:02<Super-Nathan>i want it to autostart if the server were to reboot
21:02<stderr>Oops, sorry. I'll shut up now...
21:02<Super-Nathan>but i want him to be able to stop it, work on it, and restart it
21:02<duxklr>Well whatevery the command is, you can put it in the sudoers file.
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21:03<duxklr>put the very specific commands you want your user to be able to run and that is all he/she will be able to run with sudo.
21:04<Super-Nathan>ok
21:04<Super-Nathan>no i can make multipke entrie"
21:04<duxklr>You can seperate multiple entries with ,'s
21:05<Super-Nathan>user ALL=NOPASSWD "start minecraft-server" "stop minecraft-server"
21:05<duxklr>quick google search yields this pretty nice example: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1132821
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21:06<Super-Nathan>user ALL=NOPASSWD start minecraft-server, stopminecraft server
21:06<Super-Nathan>???
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21:08<Super-Nathan> so actually more like this? user=(root)NOPASSWD:start minecraft-sever, stop minecraft-server
21:09<duxklr>That NOPASSWD option, will allow him/her to run it without typing their password, but yes that looks correct.
21:09<Super-Nathan>ok thanks
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21:11<duxklr>If you edit the sudoers file with `visudo` and make any mistakes it should balk at you and allow you to fix the problems before breaking anything.
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21:12<Super-Nathan>it kisked that out with an erre
21:12<Super-Nathan>max ALL=(root)NOPASSWD:start minecraft-server,stop minecraft-server also got kicked out
21:13<duxklr>What is the error?
21:13<Super-Nathan>as well as %max ALL=(root)NOPASSWD:start minecraft-server,stop minecraft-server
21:13<duxklr>% is group syntax. You don't want that.
21:14<Super-Nathan>visudo: >>> /etc/sudoers: syntax error near line 29 <<<
21:14<Super-Nathan>that same error is for all attempots
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21:14<stderr>You don't like spaces?
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21:15<musca>", "
21:15<stderr>I don't use sudo, so I have no idea, if that's the problem.
21:16<Super-Nathan>with a spacce it gets kicked max ALL=(root) NOPASSWD:start minecraft-server, stop minecraft-server
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21:21<Super-Nathan>fixed it with "max ALL=(root) NOPASSWD:/sbin/start minecraft-server, /sbin/stop minecraft-server"
21:22<duxklr>Yup, just figured that out myself. :)
21:22<Super-Nathan>Thanks for the help and the help and the google-fu
21:22<duxklr>You beat me to it.
21:23<duxklr>which makes good sense. If you didn't have a full path the user could make a script in his home dir called start, which runs: /bin/bash and get full root access.
21:23<Super-Nathan>yea that would suck
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21:24<Super-Nathan>if i make a similar line and give apache the samne rights, can i make a simple PHP run a simple Bash script to start and stop from a secure hebsite?
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21:28<Nemoder>seems strange to setup minecraft as a service, you could just run it under a limited user account inside screen. then you could re-attach to issue commands without restarting it
21:32<duxklr>Super-Nathan: Yes, you could do that also - just be careful about giving webapps the ability to run commands as root. Unless you are confident in what you are coding (and even then running it as root, is probably not a good idea), I would leave it as a command line thing.
21:32<Super-Nathan>fair warning, thanks
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21:38<lduros>hi, anyone knows how to set brightness to the lowest when in the shell only (no graphic interface like X)?
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21:51<lduros>I can't set /sys/class/backlight/acpi_video0/max_brightness, it won't let me echo into it even as root :-]
21:52<sney>lduros: you may need to load an acpi module for your laptop
21:53<lduros>sney: I think it's loaded already no? Because I can edit the one file called "brightness", and if I change it to 0 then brightness is at the lowest
21:53<stderr>lduros: max_brightness sounds like the max brightness possible for the screen. There's a .../brightness too.
21:53<lduros>hmm
21:53<lduros>but it seems when the screen shuts down after a few minutes, it get back to full brightness
21:53<lduros>but it hasn't kicked since I have set the brightness file
21:54<lduros>so I'll see in a minute if I wait
21:55<lduros>ha!
21:55<lduros>after changing brightness it works!
21:55<lduros>:-D
21:55<lduros>pressed a key after the backlight was off and it was still low
21:57<TheLaughingMan>Super-Nathan, we have multiple users for each minecraft server on our server. You should make a init.d script that executes that java command under his user so it won't run as root and then you can edit the sudo to give him access to the /etc/init.d/minecraft script
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22:43<Super-Nathan>I am not a minecraft player, would you mind sharing your scrip[t so i can get it running for him
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23:13<matthew0043>zzzz
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---Logclosed Mon Nov 19 00:00:32 2012