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#debian IRC Logs for 2013-06-03

---Logopened Mon Jun 03 00:00:03 2013
---Daychanged Mon Jun 03 2013
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00:16<DragonDon>ok, so, anyone got some time to help with these sound issues?
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00:17<cgraf>what would be the best place to set environment vairables for new users in a fresh debian intsallation. theoretically debian way. maybe /etc/profile.d/something_or_other ?
00:19<themill>new users? you can modify /etc/skel. (General rule is that anything that relies on environment variables for correct operation is broken, however)
00:19<themill>You also have the fun of having different paths through bashrc/bash_profile/profile executed depending on how the user is logged in.
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00:20<cgraf>ok i just need to pass a few envritonment variables from the initramfs script i wrote. but i want to do it the way you guys would do it.
00:20<SamB>cgraf: what do you need to pass them to?
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00:23<DragonDon>anyone? I have zero sound, would love some guideance
00:23<cgraf>well i made a remastering scipt, that resquashes the squashfs of my live system. my initramfs script aufs mount everything and has an environment variable for a persistence album. id like to pass it to the user space remastering script. cause the remastering script syncs with the persistence album as its last stage.
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00:24<cgraf>DragonDon: are you using alsa, pulse ? or not sure
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00:24<Nemoder_>!tell DragonDon -about soundcheck
00:24<DragonDon>cgraf, alsa
00:24<cgraf>but maybe what you were sayin themill , maybe my idea of environment vaiabels is messed up
00:24<DragonDon>Nemoder_, thanks but step two can't do.
00:25<cgraf>DragonDon: you run "alsactl init" as a trouble shooting measure?
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00:28<pi>how do i set my nickname?
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00:34<DragonDon>cgraf, are you asking did I, or telling me to run that?
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00:53<DragonDon>ok, looking for some help, as posted a few lines up, I have zero sound. if you need the link to steps taken again, please let me know
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00:56<cgraf>DragonDon: yeah run "alsactl init" and if you have no sound after that pastebin the output of "lspci", "lsusb" and "aplay -l"
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00:57<DragonDon>cgraf, as sudo I take it? not found otherwise
00:57<cgraf>we will check it all and make sure that the correct souncard is being used. also make sure nothing is muted in alsamixer
00:57<cgraf>yes, run "alsactl init" as root
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01:01<cgraf>and you are trying to use the intel device, and not hdmi sound correct ?
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01:03<cgraf>you can open alsamixer, and nothing is muted ?
01:03<jm_>good old index= module parameter to the rescue
01:04<jm_>actually scrap that, it's already 0
01:04<DragonDon>cgraf, as root or user?
01:05<cgraf>it should be able to be ran as a normal user
01:06<DragonDon>cgraf, this is what I see I note that for some reason, the chip says hdmi??
01:06<cgraf>press f5 or f6 i think you can scroll around
01:07<cgraf>but yeah if that is what is popping up, it seems like you have a config somewhere , that is not using the intel device
01:08<cgraf>usually when you open alsamixer, it just goes straight to the analogue device, which is normally the default
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01:09<DragonDon>f5 does not change the display, f6 bring up the options of -(default), 0 HDA STI SB and 1 HD-Audio Generic.
01:10<cgraf>ok, it is not seeing that intel card at all then it seems
01:11<DragonDon>which is odd....
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01:15<cgraf>i hate to see you make an asoundrc file to identify the default soundcard. but thats probably an option for you, if you want to save this install. but its a bit of a pain
01:16<cgraf>here is the some info on how to make an asound file, if you go that route
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01:17<cgraf>and here are some noted i made about it
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01:18<DragonDon>I recall having to do a asound.conf to get it working the last time but this time it does not seem to work. maybe the rc file would be better for this?
01:18<cgraf>they are the same, i think they just go in different places
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01:19<cgraf>maybe just try to get the hdmi working first
01:20<DragonDon>umm....don't I need something hooked up via hdmi? Never used it before.
01:20<cgraf>ah yeah. and if you tried the asoundrc file i am exhausted, sorry, usually i can get sound working from cli
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01:21<DragonDon>I'll try the rc example...and yeah, it looks exactly like the .conf file....ugh...sad that my virtual machines work just fine though...
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01:23<DragonDon>aplay -D default test.wav
01:23<DragonDon>ok, I get this "aplay: main:654: audio open error: Device or resource busy"
01:24<DragonDon>should I run the init again because of the new file? cgraf ?
01:25<cgraf>yeah, probably
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01:28<DragonDon>sadly, no change. truly frustrating
01:28<cgraf>can i see the contents and location of the asoundrc file you made
01:29<ThomasTheTrain>hello everyone. I have mysql running on a debian wheezy box and I can't connect to mysql from another machine on the same subnet. I've read through the my.cnf but everything appears correct.
01:29<DragonDon>sure, same as the example I do recall using the name of the card, like Generic instead of the number
01:29<DragonDon>will give that a shot
01:30<jm_>if it says device is busy something is using your sound card and other apps can't use it
01:31<DragonDon>jm_, ok, how do I figure out what is keeping it busy....I only have my browser, a terminal and xchat running
01:31<cgraf>DragonDon: i would try this if i were in your case OF
01:32<jm_>DragonDon: you mentioned VM-s too, haven't you?
01:33<DragonDon>yes, if I start up a VM, the sound works perfectly for them.
01:33<jm_>DragonDon: 'lsof | grep snd' shall show it
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01:34<cgraf>DragonDon: and maybe get rid of any asoundrc files before you try the stuff jm_ says. im out
01:35<DragonDon>lsof poste,
01:35<DragonDon>there is a pulse thing there....?
01:35<DragonDon>thanks cgraf
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01:37<jm_>i see nothing using /dev/snd files there
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01:38<DragonDon>I see a pulseaudio thing there though....thought I got rid of pulseaudio..
01:38<jm_>does sound work if you try it via PA?
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01:38<DragonDon>not sure....
01:39<DragonDon>this issue has me all over the place, can barely rememebr what worked last time this happened
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01:41<jm_>then try that and also check what driver says when it's loaded by the kernel
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01:43<DragonDon>ok, so I know how to install pulseaudio (apt-get install), how do I check the driver?
01:44<jm_>dmesg command, but there will be a lot of stuff
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01:46<operatorplik>cara instal camfrog bro
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01:49<DragonDon>jm_, ok, pasted, can't find the audio driver...
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01:54<jm_>DragonDon: it looks ok except for hda_codec: ... messages which are from one of the sound drivers
01:55<DragonDon>I noticed a lot of those messages....don't know what to do about them. any ideas?
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02:01<jm_>not really, other than to try newer kernel - if I understand correctly it can't determine max. mixer value or somesuch
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02:02<jm_>try booting into single user mode and check sound there
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02:04<jm_>it's also possible this only affects one "card" of the three you have - so if it's the one you don't intend to use, not loading the driver for it can help (assuming it's not the same driver as for some of the cards you want to use)
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02:09<DragonDon>I'm blown away that the virtual machine works but the host OS is broken....ok, can try that single-user mode....
02:10<jm_>that's why I want you to test in single user mode - to make sure it's not virtualbox interfering
02:10<jm_>alternatively, it may be vbox is using PA and it works via that so that's also an useful test
02:12<DragonDon>hmm, unless they are both in stalled, alsamixer runs on the LinuxMint VM.
02:12<DragonDon>ok, going to reboot now
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02:22<DragonDon>jm_, hmm, I think I'm in single user do I test? seems I still can't play any media
02:23<jm_>DragonDon: speaker-test
02:24<DragonDon>the program runs I hear nothing
02:24<DragonDon>I heard the little 'beep' when the login screen shows up, but that's it
02:25<jm_>what login screen?
02:25<DragonDon>the one that let's me pick my name/type in password....
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02:26<jm_>are you talking about text login prompt or some DM thing?
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02:27<DragonDon>looks like this:
02:27<DragonDon>(obviously not mine specifically)
02:27<jm_>then you're not testing in single user mode
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02:28<jm_>at boot you have recovery option in the menu, choose it - that's single user mode
02:28<DragonDon> the instructions I found on how to do this...don't work.....
02:28<DragonDon>oh....did not know that
02:28<DragonDon>ok, rebooting again
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02:29<jm_>run the speaker-test and also 'cat /proc/asound/cards'
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02:29<jm_>cat /proc/asound/cards > /var/tmp/cards.out
02:29<jm_>lsof > /var/tmp/lsof.out
02:29<jm_>lsmod > /var/tmp/lsmod.out
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02:30<jm_>then speaker-test and interrupt it, then simply use 'exit' and it shall continue to boot
02:31<DragonDon>so, so run those upon reboot and not now. ok
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02:32<jm_>in single user mode
02:33<DragonDon>ok, rebooting now then
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02:33*SamB hopes DragonDon wrote those down
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02:33*DragonDon put them into evernote, will look at them on my galaxy tab :)
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02:40<DragonDon>jm_, back. got an error message for the speaker-test
02:40<prem__>how can i make the system to display my username in gdm3 login screen instead of my Firstname
02:43<jm_>DragonDon: you'll need to provide the error message
02:44<DragonDon>took a pic of it
02:45<DragonDon>prem__, change your firstname on the system? :)
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02:46<DragonDon>typo in url
02:46<DragonDon>two of the :(
02:46<DragonDon>sigh....maybe I should call it quits for the day...geeze
02:46<jm_>DragonDon: your system is configured to use PA
02:47<jm_>and that doesn't start in single user mode, so try to test the sound via PA in GUI
02:47<DragonDon>ok....personally, I don't care if it's PA or long as it works.
02:48<jm_>well your options are to use PA for everything or not use PA at all
02:48<DragonDon>a lot of people have said to use Alsa....I don't know either techncially enough to make any kind of guess as to which to use.
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02:49<birch>jm_, DragonDon I think this conversation happens too often
02:49<prem__>DragonDon, no i cant change the firstname., is there anyway to display username inspite of the firstname
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02:50<DragonDon>jm_, right now I opened an MP3, I have the PA Volume control open, it is showing that VLC is playing the song, it is showing the volume level jumping around but zero is coming out the speakers
02:51<jm_>DragonDon: I can't comment, the only sound daemon I used was esd back then, since then I simply use ALSA directly, but there were times when I had issues with multiple apps using sound device at the same time andsaid I shall test PA, however the problem was never annoying enough to actually test it
02:51<DragonDon>well, just got some sound.....
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02:52<jm_>DragonDon: doesn't PA thing have some setup where you tell it which sound card to use?
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02:52<KitsuneKokuen>Hey can anyone help me?
02:52<DragonDon>on the PA Volume Control/Config tab, I switched the 'internal audio' from "Digital Sterio Duplex(IEC958)' to 'Analog Stero Duplex'
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02:53<DragonDon>wow...thanks for your help dude
02:53<KitsuneKokuen>I'm trying to install debian via the daily snaphsot net install onto my macbook pro
02:53<DragonDon>now, to make a note and hopefully won't have to deal with it ever again
02:53<jm_>no worries
02:54<KitsuneKokuen>any help anyone is willing to put forth is greatly appreciated
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02:56<Supaplex>isn't this suppose to work in multiarch?
02:57<Supaplex>KitsuneKokuen: I hope you're installing stable. otherwise #debian-next
02:57<DragonDon>KitsuneKokuen, I can't say that I know anywhere near enough to help but it would be a good idea if you mentioned where you are having problems.
02:57<KitsuneKokuen>When i run the installer i can navigate the menu fine
02:57<KitsuneKokuen>but when i choose install or expert install and it brings me to the installation menu
02:57<KitsuneKokuen>my keyboard doesnt work
02:58<KitsuneKokuen>even booting with the noapic and nolapic parameters
02:58<KitsuneKokuen>or with a usb keyboard
02:58<jm_>Supaplex: no, multi-arch only works on compatible architectures, i.e. 32 and 64 bit x86 CPU
02:59<KitsuneKokuen>And im very new to this irc thing is #debian-next the channel i should be on for unstable builds?
02:59<Supaplex>jm_: isn't that amd64/i386? (did I miss something on the paste I listed?)
02:59<DragonDon>KitsuneKokuen, yes. I would recommend stable builds, also, I take it you have seen this
02:59<Supaplex>x86_64 actually.
02:59<KitsuneKokuen>yes i have
03:00<Supaplex>KitsuneKokuen: did you try the regular release (not a daily)?
03:00<DragonDon>KitsuneKokuen, ok, if you want to install unstable builds, you need to go to #debian-next
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03:01<KitsuneKokuen>okay ill move channels
03:01<KitsuneKokuen>sorry guys and thanks for the input
03:01<jm_>Supaplex: yeah amd64/i386 works - I assumed you are trying an actual ARM binary, not i386 one by just checking the path, however now I see file actually says i386
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03:02<Supaplex>yup. it's a cross compiler, but the host is 64bit, and the bin is 32bit (and the target/arm should make no difference here)
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03:04<jm_>Supaplex: ldd is a shell script, you can debug what's going on via bash -x /usr/bin/ldd ...
03:04<Supaplex>maybe i'll spin up an i386 guest in lxc for it.
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03:04<jm_>it just runs the binary with some loader variables set
03:04<jm_>multi-arch works, I am using i386 iceweasel on my amd64 machine at work
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03:05<kbox>Mount error code 2 with a GPT drive (4x 1TB raid0 USB Lacie Quadra): Here is all the relevant information on what I have tried: any thoughts appreciated
03:07<jm_>kbox: is this a 32bit system?
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03:09<jm_>if you're using kernel ntfs driver then it doesn't work with filesystems > 2T on 32bit systems
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03:10<jm_>it's easy to check if that's the case - check dmesg after running mount
03:11<kbox>jm_ : even if I split the drives? I do not have ant partition greater than 2TB on the array. . .running dmesg now
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03:14<jm_>kbox: ahh I see you included some links to screen shots and the partitions are smaller, so that shouldn't be an issue (btw, you can use 'cat /proc/partitions' to get the info if fdisk doesn't work - newer fdisk versions have some gpt support too)
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03:14<jm_>kbox: why are you running gparted?
03:15<kbox>jm_: will answer your questions, here is dmesg after mount:
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03:17<kbox>jm_: from my first fdisk -l the messages was try gparted because fdisk cannot read GPT. . . .it is on the first pastie. trying your other suggestions now
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03:18<jm_>kbox: ahh ok, you can just use the cat command I gave you above to print kernel's idea of partitions, alternatively, instead of parted use gdisk which is also a simple CLI tool
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03:19<jm_>kbox: does it work if you use kernel's ntfs driver instead of ntfs-3g?
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03:20<kbox>jm_: not sure how to do that is there a way to specify kernel ntfs driver?
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03:20<kbox>jm_: here is cat /proc/partitions:
03:21<kbox>jm-: getting gdisk now
03:21<jm_>kbox: (no need to use gdisk now, it was just for your future use) -- mount -t ntfs,ro /dev/sdb2 /blabla
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03:25<jm_>kbox: is there a mistake or did you really use different dir name?
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03:26<kbox>jm_: mistake
03:26<kbox>fixing now
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03:31<jm_>kbox: did mount not report any errors? anything in dmesg output for it?
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03:32<kbox>jm_: no errors when I ran the command > now running dmesg again
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03:34<kbox>jm_: dmesg :
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03:36<kbox>jm_: first tried on new install of 64bit Wheezy, went back to trustly old 32, but and then posted here, should I attempt smth else on 64bit?
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03:40<jm_>kbox: hmm it keeps using ntfs-3g for you
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03:46<kbox>jm_: should I remove ntfs-3g ? if so how?
03:47<kbox>jm_: just booted 64bit system . . . should I move to that one?
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03:48<kbox>jm_: aptitude remove ntfs-3g ?
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03:49<jm_>kbox: wait, I'm trying to figure this out, I thought there's another ntfs mount but I can't find it now
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03:51<jm_>kbox: I have ntfs drives at home, I'll have to check what it's using there, but for you, I'd recommend to try mounting this on a Windows system to see what it says
03:55<kbox>jm_: shows up as raw in windows . . .will stay online till you get hom . . .thanks for trying
03:55<gruetzkopf>hey, what can i do to reduce the harddrive spinups (debian7, 686-pae kernel, laptop)?
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03:55<jm_>kbox: don't bother, that won't happen for the next 6.5 hours ;)
03:56<jm_>gruetzkopf: tried tools/settings from the laptop-mode-tools package?
03:57<gruetzkopf>i see one thing is to disable autobacklight, as that causes a write to auth.log
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03:58<jm_>well you could disable just that message with a smart syslog daemon
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03:59<gruetzkopf>and just now cron.daily was started :D
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04:01<gruetzkopf>but a ssd will stop spinups at their root ;)
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04:04<kbox>jm_: understood thanks for your help. . .I will stay online. FYI windows sees this partition as raw
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04:05<jm_>kbox: hmm no idea what raw means in windows - is it unformatted?
04:06<kbox>jm_: I had security footage on the drive, left it for analysis but owner, they said I should do the analysis. plugged drive into windows and it comes up as raw, not sure what happened in between but raw like unformatted yes
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04:07<gruetzkopf>even had "raw" store data
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04:08<gruetzkopf>wonderful total silence
04:08<kbox>sorry man
04:08<jm_>kbox: hmm then I really don't know how to proceed - perhaps see what the file tool says for it
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04:09<kbox>gruetzkopf: plus with that attitude you will not get very far here . . .be patient
04:09<gruetzkopf>totally unrelated.
04:09<gruetzkopf>that was in regards to my laptop HDD
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04:10<kbox>gruetzkopf: understood you meant your problem is fixed :-)
04:11<jm_>yeah ssd would be silent, but they don't always use that much less power - and you can try using different accoustic modes for your disk if you want it to be more silent (not sure if this is actually noticable)
04:11<gruetzkopf>creepy how silent this box can be
04:11<gruetzkopf>nah, disk is old doesnt do that
04:12<gruetzkopf>olde 320G server grade samsung :D
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04:12<gruetzkopf>its only acoustic mode is drumset, only have one louder drive in this formfactor
04:13<gruetzkopf>and THAT is a 5400RPM laptop "silent" driver
04:14<kbox> debian
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04:17<gruetzkopf>i just grabbed a replacement battery too, math tells me i should be abe to squeeze 5+ hours out of this olde box :)
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04:20<azagael>does anybody know if you can get Ccleaner for wheezy?
04:20<gruetzkopf>why'd you want useless stuff like that?
04:21<azagael>actually now that i think of it, it probably only works for windows. maybe some other alternative?
04:21<azagael>how is it useless?
04:22<gruetzkopf>has a relatively high chance of breaking your windows
04:22<azagael>well then how else would you clean your windows?
04:23<gruetzkopf>with the included stuff?
04:23<azagael>alright. so what about linux?
04:24<gruetzkopf>what would you clean about that?
04:24<gruetzkopf>downloads and .cache?
04:24<azagael>yeah i guess
04:25<gruetzkopf>and .thumb if thats growing biig
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04:25<gruetzkopf>just use your fav file manager / rm command
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04:27<gruetzkopf>and your browsers cache clear button
04:27<azagael>ok thanks
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04:40<tux_>hello everyone
04:40<tux_>sorry for my english but it is not my nativ language
04:40<tux_>i need help with debian installation
04:40<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
04:41<dpkg>Na kanale #debian rozmawiamy po angielsku; jesli chcesz lub wolisz mowic po polsku, wejdz na kanal #debian-pl na (Polish speakers please go to #debian-pl on pl is also <perl>.
04:41<tux_>i want to install debian testing from netinstal
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04:41<Supaplex>there is a testing netinstall.
04:41<jm_>just use stable installer and upgrade
04:42<tux_>i want to encrypt the entire disk
04:42<tux_>and i have a problem with partitioning
04:43<tux_>when I finish my partitioning the installer goes back to the partitioning
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04:44<tux_>i use encryption with lvm
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04:44<jm_>someone else reported the same thing last week
04:46<tux_>maybe there is a problem with image
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04:47<tux_>i was using dailybuild testing for amd64
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04:47<jm_>just use stable installer
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04:55<DrZaius>who uses or create /etc/hosts.{deny,allow} ?
04:55<@weasel>I do.
04:56<DrZaius>is it system wide like /etc/hosts?
04:56<DrZaius>its processed before/after iptables?
04:56<@weasel>things that link against tcpwrappers use it.
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04:56<@weasel>it's application level.
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04:57<DrZaius>so its for xinetd for example but not for iceweasel for example?
04:57<@weasel>iceweasel isn't a server
04:58<DrZaius>yup, so applications have to use tcpwrappers (that i, in my lack of knowledge, associate with xinetd
04:58*weasel would have pointed to the host_access manpage, but it doesn't seem to explain the concept too well.
04:58<DrZaius>no, i come from there
04:58<@weasel>xinetd links against tcpwrappers. so does ssh. or heimdal. or ..
04:59<@weasel>so in short: "some servers use it"
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05:00<DrZaius>so its not system wide, applications have to use tcpwrappers to use those files
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05:00<@weasel>these two are not mutually exclusive.
05:00<@weasel>it's systemwide. network servers that use tcpwrappers use these files.
05:01<@weasel>have you read
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05:01<DrZaius>well, i did at some point
05:02<DrZaius>not that i ever found any use for it
05:02<DrZaius>this far
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05:02<DrZaius>my server daemons are always running
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05:04<DrZaius>on a semi-related topic, i have a problem connecting to a private vpn... it rewrites my /etc/hosts file everytime it connects
05:04<DrZaius>is there a way to use another host file, in a /etc/hosts.d/ kind of fasion?
05:05<daemonkeeper>Yes, we call it "DNS"
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05:06<lupine>not exactly the same thing ^^
05:06<lupine>DrZaius, nothing but LD_PRELOAD hacks. Or I guess you could enFUSE the file
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05:07<DrZaius>something like /etc/motd.tail would be useful as well for /etc/hosts :/
05:08<lupine>DrZaius, if what's annoying you is the VPS overwriting your custom /etc/hosts rules, you could always use inotify to be informed of when the file is changed, so you can re-append them
05:08<lupine>something like incron makes that trivial
05:09<@weasel>why would anything overwrite /etc/hosts?
05:09<@weasel>that's horribly broken
05:09<lupine>but we're deep in hackland now
05:09<DrZaius>wow lupine, i dont know if ill use it for this, but the inotify thing seems awesome!
05:09<lupine>mm, I'm pretty hot for inotify in general
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05:11<@weasel>I'd just chattr /etc/hosts
05:12<DrZaius>after some more googling, it seems juniper vpn adds the contents of /etc/hosts.default
05:12<DrZaius>at least some workaround for broken program :/
05:13<DrZaius>thanks for the help
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05:21<ghking>hello everyone! I'm studying C++ programing, could you give me an IRC channel of C++.
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05:23<Infiltrator>ghking: Have you tried #cpp?
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05:23<Infiltrator>Even more blanant: it's #c++.
05:24-!-holden87 [~nenad@2001:1470:faca:1505:21f:16ff:fe26:17b4] has joined #debian
05:24<Infiltrator>ghking: But if you're learning it, there are plenty of resources available (tutorials and books and what-not.)
05:24-!-Kim [~k@] has joined #debian
05:24<ghking><Infiltrator>, yes but there is so litter people
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05:25<Infiltrator>ghking: I assume that you mean 'little' and _actually_ mean 'few'? On OFTC, yes; but there are 430 on Freenode.
05:26<ghking>yes few, hehe!
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05:27<ghking><Infiltrator>, thank you, I will try on freenode.
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05:28<holden87>how's it hangin, nice Debian folk :) top of the mornin' to ya :)
05:29<SynrG>surviving. got a debian support question?
05:29<Infiltrator>holden87: What about us non-nice folk? Also, I don't believe that this is a social channel.
05:29<SynrG>though lots of us nice debian folks hang out on #debian-offtopic for that :)
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05:32<holden87>oh snap, this is only a support channel? my bad.
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05:49<azagael>whats an alternative for paint in wheezy?
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05:50<SynrG>azagael: although it's designed for kids, i'm fond of tuxpaint
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05:50<babilen>.oO( maybe you are fond of it for exactly that reason )
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05:51<SynrG>i've heard tell of people who use it at work for quick mockups
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05:51<SynrG>you probably want to configure it to disable sound
05:52<azagael>haha this really is for kids...
05:52<SynrG>please note that saved pics are in ~/.tuxpaint/saved/ which is perhaps non-obvious for adult users
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05:53<babilen>Inkscape is definitely worth a look too, but it is a SVG tool so might not be what you are looking for. There seem to be quite a number of "artist" drawing tools though ... lets dig some up.
05:53<SynrG>for the older kids i just symlink that as a non-hidden folder on their desktop
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05:53<azagael>all i want to do is paste a printscreen and save it
05:54<SynrG>ah. my tool of choice there is shutter.
05:54<SynrG>it even has some paint features
05:54<babilen>azagael: Okay, I definitely misconstrued your question then :)
05:54<SynrG>it will allow selection of arbitrary screen regions, multiple paste buffers, markup with circles and such to highlight things
05:55*babilen closes tabs of mypaint, inkscape, ...
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05:55<SynrG>there are a number of lightweight, less-featured print screen applications, too, such as gpe-screenshot
05:55<azagael>nice, whats the command to remove tuxpaint?
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05:55<azagael>aptitude --purge tuxpaint?
05:56<babilen>azagael: "apt-get purge tuxpaint ; apt-get --purge autoremove" would remove the package, its dependencies and all configuration files. Replace "purge" with "remove" if you want to keep configuration files.
05:56<SynrG>it needs a verb
05:56-!-eugenia [] has joined #debian
05:56<SynrG>or 'aptitude purge tuxpaint'
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05:56<azagael>whats a ''verb''?
05:56<babilen>azagael: I'd recommend to read (and the rest of the book)
05:56<SynrG>many ways to skin this cat
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05:57<SynrG>azagael: --purge is not a verb, it's an adverb :)
05:57<azagael>oh i see
05:57<SynrG>in english: "aptitude remove --purge tuxpaint" -> "aptitude, remove tuxpaint purgingly" ;)
05:58<babilen>NOOO! Not the cat! 😿
05:59<Infiltrator>babilen: What's the code of that character? It's coming up as a box for me.
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06:00<babilen>Infiltrator: U+1F63F
06:00<ghking> here is what my question(about c programing)).
06:00<azagael>how do i remove multi-arch?
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06:01<Infiltrator>babilen: Thank you.
06:01<babilen>ghking: You really want to ask that in #c++ on
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06:01<babilen>dpkg: otherchannel ghking #c++
06:01<dpkg>ghking: The channel you are looking for is #c++ on Please do /server and then /join #c++. If your client supports it, you can also right-click the following link and choose connect: irc://
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06:02<babilen>Oh, it is ##c++ IIRC but they have a forward
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06:05<azagael>how do i remove multi-arch?
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06:07<babilen>azagael: You can't -- What are you trying to achieve?
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06:07<babilen>azagael: wait, multi-arch or multiarch?
06:07<babilen>(yay, confusion)
06:07<azagael>i dont know the difference...
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06:08<azagael>i installed it a week ago for some program but apparently i dont need it
06:08<Infiltrator>azagael: How about this: 'what are you trying to achieve?'
06:08<babilen>azagael: That's okay. Just tell me what you want to achieve? (multi-arch == capability to install amd64 and i386 from a multi-arch netinstall image, multiarch == capability to install packages from multiple architectures at the same time)
06:09<babilen>azagael: You cannot remove multiarch (the feature), but you can remove packages of a foreign architecture. Is that what you want?
06:09<azagael>i had to install spotify and the multi-arch seemed to cause problems
06:10<azagael>i was told i dont need it and to remove it
06:10<babilen>azagael: What problems exactly? Who told you that?
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06:10<azagael>my teacher. problems installing it, i dont remember the exact errors
06:11<babilen>And spotify isn't really supported by us ... But you really have to provide more details. You cannot remove multiarch, but you can remove packages installed for, say, i386 on a amd64 system or remove i386 from the list of other architectures. I would recommend to read
06:12<babilen>azagael: Do you have problems right now?
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06:12<azagael>how come i can install it but not remove it?
06:12<babilen>Remove what?
06:12<azagael>multiarch or multi-arch
06:13<azagael>and no, i dont have any problems right now
06:13<babilen>azagael: I don't understand your question -- Our packaging toolset supports multiarch since wheezy. You cannot "install" or "remove" that feature as it is simply there. You don't have to use it though.
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06:13<azagael>oh ok. ill have to get back to my teacher with it then
06:14<babilen>azagael: Read the HowTo I linked earlier - That might shed some light on the issue
06:14<azagael>i will
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06:15<libregeekingkid>How to install geary on wheezy
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06:16<babilen>judd: v geary
06:16<judd>Package: geary on i386 -- experimental: 0.3.1-1
06:17<babilen>judd: checkbackport geary --fromrelease experimental
06:17<judd>Backporting package geary in experimental→wheezy/i386: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: valac-0.18 (>= 0.17.4).
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06:18<babilen>libregeekingkid: I don't think you can do that easily at the moment
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06:19<libregeekingkid>ok, then let it be the harder way..
06:19<libregeekingkid>babilen: ..
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06:21<babilen>libregeekingkid: Get the source package from (e.g. with "dget -x")
06:22<babilen>libregeekingkid: You need to adjust the build-dependency on valac-0.18 to a version that is in your target release. It looks as if wheezy has 0.16.1-2 while jessie/sid have 0.20.1-2 respectively. I guess that geary needs a newer valac than what is available in wheezy, but you could try to build the package with the version in wheezy.
06:23<babilen>libregeekingkid: If that doesn't work you have to backport valac-0.20 from sid as well, that might be hard too, but lets see about that.
06:23<babilen>judd: checkbackport valac-0.20
06:23<judd>Backporting package valac-0.20 in sid→wheezy/i386: all build-dependencies satisfied using wheezy.
06:23<libregeekingkid>babilen: i have downloaded the source from gearys homepage
06:25<babilen>libregeekingkid: Okay, you can naturally compile it from upstream source and not use the Debian package (and Debian integration) which means that you should install it in /usr/local -- This *still* leaves you with the potential issue regarding valac -- I don't know if geary requires a newer version.
06:25<libregeekingkid>babilen: so what method will you propose?
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06:26<babilen>libregeekingkid: You probably want to read a number of factoids, among them: <backport> <package recompile> <ssb> (for backporting) <usrlocal> <stow> <stow usage> (for installation in /usr/local from upstream sources) -- /msg dpkg usrlocal
06:28<Infiltrator>What about #debian-devel?
06:28<babilen>libregeekingkid: Both approaches are fine, but you have to figure out if you do need a newer valac than what is in wheezy or not. If not both approaches are relatively straighforward (with the complication that you have to change the valac build-dependency in the Debian source package)
06:28<babilen>Infiltrator: What about it?
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06:28<libregeekingkid>babilen: what is valac?
06:29<babilen>libregeekingkid: If you decide to install it to /usr/local I would *strongly* advice you to use stow to "manage" (well, rather separate) that "installation"
06:29<Infiltrator>babilen: Nevermind then; sorry for the noise.
06:29<babilen>libregeekingkid: A compiler for Vala -- which is presumably used by geary
06:30<libregeekingkid>babilen: Look I am a kid. Explain like you are explaining to a kid.
06:31<babilen>libregeekingkid: No, I don't have time for this and it might be harder than just "Run CMD1, CMD2, CMD3" -- I don't have the time to package geary for Debian right now *and* backport it to wheezy. You wanted to have pointers for "the hard way" and I provided them.
06:31<babilen>libregeekingkid: Vala is a programming language and valac is its compiler. It looks as if geary uses vala and it *might* be that it requires a newer version of the compiler than what is in wheezy.
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06:32<libregeekingkid>babilen: sorry for that. I appreciate your efforts.
06:32<libregeekingkid>babilen: thanks
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06:44<babilen>libregeekingkid: FWIW, just install valac and try to compile it on wheezy. Read "/msg dpkg stow usage" and then run "mkdir -p /usr/local/stow/geary/" "./configure --prefix=/usr/local/stow/geary/ ; make" -- If that succeeded than run "sudo make install" to install it. A simply "cd /usr/local/stow ; sudo stow geary" should enable stow.
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06:46<babilen>libregeekingkid: The problems you are probably running into are related to missing build dependencies -- My biggest fear is that you have to backport valac from unstable, but you need all the packages that are listed in debian/control in the Debian source package. So install those -- You also have to install build-essential.
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06:46<babilen>libregeekingkid: Good luck
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07:55<azagael>my system time is always 2 hours ahead, i put the correct time and the next day its 2 hours ahead again
07:56<azagael>i checked if the timezone and stuff and its all set correctly
07:56<Stummi>azagael, exactly 2 hours?
07:56<Stummi>or "something around 2 hours"?
07:57<azagael>something around, its like 4 mins off
07:57<Stummi>maybe its a very bad bios clock?
07:57<azagael>i never had this problem when i had windows installed
07:58<Stummi>do you have dualboot, windows and linux?
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07:59<Sbaitso>hello, is there anyway to get link to desktop in bottom left corner in gnome 3?
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08:06<azagael>Stummi: any solution for this problem?
08:06<slush>azagael: install ntp
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08:06<azagael>what is ntp?
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08:07<slush>Network Time Protocol daemon
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08:07<slush>it syncs your clock
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08:08<Stummi>azagael, yeah, i would say ntp too. But I have no idea, why this problem occours
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08:08<Stummi>azagael, just fur curios: are you in a +/- 2 tz?
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08:09<Stummi>so may $something tries to set your system clock to you local time while linux tries to set it to UTC
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08:09<Stummi>(linux uses UTC always, and time zones are just a special "view" on this time)
08:10<azagael>so what do i type in my command line to get NTP
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08:10<slush>azagael: is the time changed after reboot or does it run 24/7 and is it changed while running
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08:10<azagael>i will check. im not sure
08:11<Stummi>azagael, install ntpdate and openntpd. However, if this is indicated by something changing the time, this is just a supressing of symptoms
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08:13<azagael>it happens while the system is running
08:13<Stummi>azagael, install ntpdate and openntpd. However, if this is indicated by something changing the time, this is just a supressing of symptoms
08:14<Stummi>azagael, the next step would be finding out if the time changes slowly or there is a point where it "jumps" this 2 hours ahead
08:14<Stummi>if it is the first one, its just a bad bios clock. And you may had not this problem cause it syncs his clock via ntp per default
08:15<jm_>!set time
08:15<dpkg>To set the time on Debian systems, use date --set. The truly enlightened user, however, will install <ntp> to have their clock set automatically on reboot and slewed to match time servers. Also verify the system's UTC setting and set the correct time zone; ask me about <utc>, <timezone>.
08:15<jm_>so ask dpkg about <ntp> etc.
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08:17<azagael>ive installed ntpdate and openntpd
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08:51<Dark_light>Can I use the liquorix kernel on wheezy ?
08:53<towo^work>ask damenz, it is his kernel
08:54<Dark_light>ok, one other unrelated question if I want to delete like kopete from kde it will try and remove kde-standard and task-kde-desktop, how can I prevent that ?
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08:56<towo^work>Dark_light, kde-standard and task-kde-desktop are metapackages
08:56<holden87>Hi guys! i have just one theming question in Xfce on Wheezy. Is anyone using the Matt theme in Xfce, and if you do, how did you fix the notification area and other panel items not being integrated into the theme? Thanks in advance!
08:56<towo^work>so it's normal, that they gone
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08:56<Dark_light>ok and then I just run aptitude keep-all so that it doesn't remove everything else right ?
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09:04<joseph-soares>does exim4 attach file like an image?
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09:12<Stummi>joseph-soares, exim4 is an MTA. it shouldn't bother about attached files or images
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09:22<joseph-soares>Stummi, So, who should do bother?
09:23<Stummi>the MUA attaches images or reads attached images
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09:30<joseph-soares>Stummi, I recently configured exim4 to send mail from GMail
09:31<bluenemo>hi guys, i'm looking for a password storage solution for our business, we develop ruby on rails apps so there is a lot of "admin accs" to save somewhere. what woudl you advise for that? i'd prefer some web interface, but a shared cli solution would also be interesting.
09:32<joseph-soares>Stummi, So I can send typing "echo text | mail -s subject mail_to" and it send mail using my gmail account. What should I do to send files using command line since I've made this procedures
09:33<Stummi>joseph-soares, in this case, "mail" is your MUA. There are serval implementations and not all are supporting attacements, so i don't know if your "mail" supports it
09:34<mgv>how can I make exim4 with saslauthd authentication work with fail2ban? exim does not log failed auths, and saslauthd logs them but without an ip
09:34<joseph-soares>Stummi, Ok. Thanks
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09:51<joseph-soares>is there any way to execute a script if anybody put a wrong password when a session is locked after a (ctrl+alt+L) for example
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10:01<ompaul>joseph-soares: check what happens in auth-log
10:01<ompaul>auth.log even
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10:06<joseph-soares>ompaul, Great! And, is there any listener when lockscreen ask for a password? Actualy I want to run a script if somebody put a wrong password in my laptop
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10:17<ompaul>and that script will turn it off?
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10:19<SynrG>i imagine it could be plugged into pam somehow
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10:20<dnamialk>Hi, in the last php release, the changelog says: 'Remove php5-json from Provides, since that's no longer true' and 'Add script to remove non-free JSON module'. It is said that: 'A replacement package is on the NEW queue.'. Does it mean that json_encode is not usable for now?
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10:21<joseph-soares>ompaul, No. I developed a script that take a picture and I'd like to make it runs always somebody try to enter to my computer
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10:24<SynrG>joseph-soares: i think that would be best run as a pam module, along the same lines as libpam-shield and similar
10:25<Dark_light>is it normal for software manager to list items more than once ?
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10:26<Dark_light>because it lists 2 yakuakes 4 chromiums and many others
10:26<SynrG>Dark_light: i don't use "software manager" so i have no idea what "normal" is. is this ubuntu or debian?
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10:26<SynrG>!ubuntuirc Dark_light
10:26<dpkg>Dark_light: This is not the Ubuntu help channel. Please do /server and then /join #ubuntu. If you are using XChat, you can right-click the following link and choose connect. irc://
10:26<Dark_light>debian and sorry I meant to ask on debian-kde
10:27<SynrG>ah, ok
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10:31<Dark_light>also it's just apper renamed
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10:33<Altimeter>./j #debian-edu
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10:37<Guest814>one question about aptitude keep and can i remove this?? for hold there is unhold..but there is nothing for keep keep-all
10:37<cgraf>i guess the only environment variable i really want to savbe from the intramfs is the one i pass in the kernel boot line "root=/dev/sda" usually is what mine is. but id like it to be passed into the actual running system.
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10:38<joseph-soares>ompaul, any idea?
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10:41<cgraf>i can echo it into a configuration file. but that seems messy :P
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10:46<ompaul>joseph-soares: no idea - I'd just do photo on fail regardless of what
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10:46<ompaul>joseph-soares: the idea being that you may report yourself to yourself
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10:58<babilen>Guest814: keep/keep-all simply cancel all pending actions -- there is no way to undo this apart from actually performing the action in question
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11:01<Guest814>babilien i was thinking that also marks all the packets as manual installed..i know what docs says but cannot understand
11:01<ompaul>Guest814: if you are running sid or testing you should not be keeping things you should be upgrading or not depending on your needs dist-upgrade is your friend failure to do so means you break your sid or testing
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11:02<Guest814>in actions counts also the update so how can we upadate the system later?
11:02<ompaul>Guest814: if you are moving from squeeze to wheezy you should be accepting all changes
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11:02<ompaul>Guest814: you keep all today and tomorrow you get asked the same question or a better one about what to change
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11:03<ompaul>Guest814: are you running testing or sid, or are you moving from stable to testing, or are you moving from squeeze to wheezy
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11:03<ompaul>Guest814: one of those may fit your current action and help us help you more
11:03<Guest814>i m runnind sid
11:03<ompaul>Guest814: keeping things is wrong in sid you keep version 10 of iceweasel and then you don't get version 17
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11:04<ompaul>Guest814: that is how SID works - use apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade -d if you like the proposed changes do it without the -d
11:04<babilen>Guest814: Packages might have actions scheduled that haven't been performed yet -- keep/keep-all simply cancel those actions. That has nothing to do with hold or the status of being automatically or manually installed
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11:04<babilen>Guest814: And fwiw, sid is supported in #debian-next :)
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11:05<ompaul>Guest814: where I'll give the same presentation (again without slides)
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11:06<a987>hello, could anyone please tell me how i install kernel source for 3.2.0-0.bpo.4-amd64 ? ive already tried linux-source-3.2 and aptitude -t squeeze-backports install linux-source
11:06<Guest814>ompaul i m running sid 5 years..the reason that i m asking is that i was looking to manpage and realise that i have never use this option i asked :)
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11:09<a987>is source in fact install? synaptic seems to think so
11:10<Guest814>ompaul from what you wrote i understand that keep/keep-all cancels actions that correct??
11:10<babilen>a987: Just check "apt-cache policy linux-source-3.2"
11:11<babilen>Guest814: No, it cancels them. Forever. It does not reschedule *any* pending actions at a later time.
11:11<babilen>Guest814: This does not hold packages or anything
11:12<a987>Installed: 3.2.41-2+deb7u2~bpo60+1 Candidate: 3.2.41-2+deb7u2~bpo60+1 <--- my uname is 3.2.0-0.bpo.4-amd64 which is an earlier version. :-S how to fix this?
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11:13<Guest814>babilen excuse my couriosity..if you keep a package eg A how can you cancel this
11:13<ompaul> until the next apt-get dist-upgrade
11:13<retrospectacus>a987: check 'uname -v'
11:13<ompaul>Guest814: and using aptitude with sid ... I'm not sure that's the best idea
11:14<a987>ooh, thx, it says #1 SMP Debian 3.2.41-2+deb7u2~bpo60+1. weird
11:14<Guest814>ompaul never had problem i love aptitude
11:14<ompaul>Guest814: and #debian-next is a better place for this coversation
11:14<ompaul>conversation even
11:14<a987>i now know difference between release and version
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11:16<babilen>Guest814: You *cannot* cancel it. To "keep" a package does *nothing* apart from canceling any pending actions. (i.e. actions that have been marked as to perform next but haven't been performed)
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11:17<babilen>Canceling that doesn't make sense - What canceling a keep would mean is to mark packages with one of the possible actions you could perform on them.
11:17<ompaul>Guest814: rather than debate that - why not build a vm and try it and see
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11:18<babilen>It's easier to try ... Just start aptitude, mark a package for installation (with +) and then cancel that action without performing it first.
11:18<ompaul>keep-all does this: Cancels all scheduled actions on all packages; any packages whose sticky state indicates an installation, removal, or upgrade will have this sticky state cleared.
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11:19<babilen>aptitude simply has a notion of a "pending action" ^^^ keep/keep-all cancel these pending actions.
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11:24<Dark_light>what packge should I add to get a specific language grammar correction in libreoffice?
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11:25<Dark_light>*spell checking
11:26<Dark_light>nevermind got it
11:26<a987>hello, i return. nvidia cant find the installed kernel source. where is it stored? all i got in /usr/src/ is two bz2 files
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11:26<retrospectacus>dpkg: tell a987 about nvidia
11:27<babilen>a987: What are you trying to achieve?
11:27<retrospectacus>dpkg: tell a987 about why nvidia installer sucks
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11:28<babilen>a987: There are much better methods to install the nvidia driver than using the horrible nvidia installer and you probably need the kernel headers and not the kernel source itself. Please read if you want to install the nvidia drivers on wheezy.
11:28<babilen>a987: Which version of Debian do you use?
11:28<a987>im trying to achieve awesome video playback with nvidia official drivers. i managed to do this before. i have no idea why it is not working anymore. i got tearing with the debian drivers and was thus unable to enjoy movies with them
11:28<a987>im using debian 6 because i love gnome 2
11:29<babilen>a987: Well, don't use the nvidia .run to install the nvidia driver on Debian but install it from the repositories. The version in squeeze is relatively old so you might want to use at least the one in backports.
11:30<retrospectacus>a987: you should have no problem installing nvidia drivers from backports using the "dkms" method the robot mentioned
11:30<babilen>a987: Staying on squeeze is not an option -- Gnome 2 has been deprecated and there is no point to use a release that won't be supported in a couple of months. Move on and choose a different desktop environment if you don't want to use Gnome 3.
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11:33<a987>i havent been able to find any desktop environment that is as good as gnome 2
11:34<babilen>There are plenty of alternatives in wheezy (XFCE and LXDE being the major contenders with KDE being an option too) -- jessie (current testing) has cinnamon which might be worth a look, but I am not sure how happy you would be to run an unstable (in the Debian sense of "stable") development release.
11:34<a987>except for maybe windows classic in windows 7 but then i have issues with the operating system...
11:35<retrospectacus>xfce4 is what I switched to a987
11:35<babilen>a987: It's too late -- Ok, granted you get around nine months of support for squeeze now that you can use to postpone the decision, but you will ultimately have to move to wheezy (or a different distribution) -- There is no other sensible course of action. I am simply saying to switch now, rather than later.
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11:36<babilen>a987: A lot of people are happy with XFCE4, but there are alternatives. Pick your poison. Either way, don't use the nvidia .run installer but the DKMS packages provided by Debian. (you probably want to use those from backports or upgrade to wheezy first and then install those in wheezy)
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11:44<cgraf>a987: if i wanted a nice desktop id be looking at tweaking how my file manager is set up, and maybe utilities like conky to show weather and news updates. really there is no DE that can offer as much as that combination
11:46<a987>i couldnt set upperpanel of window to be larger in XFCE4
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11:47<retrospectacus>you can mix and match - use xfce4-panel and session, and nautilus (filebrowser of your choice) and metacity
11:47<cgraf>you can chose from a huge amount of templates for window borders in XFCE. ^ exactly
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11:48<retrospectacus>if you have trouble with general sizing of things adjust the DPI in xorg.conf
11:48<a987>i guess ill give it another shot. still it is dumb to fix what isnt broken gnome 2 rip :`(
11:49<a987>thx for help
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11:49<retrospectacus>a987: there is "mate" the gnome2 fork but I heard it is pretty bad. It's not in Debian and not supported here.
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11:52<Dark_light>what's the best way to get a newer kernel for wheezy? possibly 3.9.x
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11:58<cgraf>Dark_light: if you must have something that new, and you cant wait for newer packages to get backported. Then you can get the .deb and install it with dpkg
12:00<cgraf>its better to stick with the packages supplied by wheezy. again, unless of there is some reason you really need the newer kernel
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12:00<cgraf>here is the .deb for 3.9
12:01<cgraf>i have not tried it, and think it would be better to use 3.8 (just because i have tried it, and it is in sid not experimental repos), or just wait.
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12:03<Dark_light>thanks! the reason I want it is because my laptop runs a lot cooler with 3.9 + kernels and with 3.2 kernels it has issues powering off on battery
12:03<blast007>Dark_light: why do you need 3.9?
12:03<blast007>ah, answered my question :)
12:03<cgraf>and here is 3.8 that is the one i am using
12:03<blast007>there's probably a better way to do that than just installing the .deb though.
12:04<cgraf>blast007: i dont think there is actually
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12:04<Dark_light>are there headers too?
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12:05<blast007>cgraf: the better way would probably be running unstable and pulling specific things from sid
12:05<Altimeter>Hello! School's out and me and another teacher are getting around to wiping our old Windows XP machines with plans to setup Debian. We'd like to set up a server with student logins/passwords. We're thinking make one machine an LDAP server, then, do magic and make other machines ... LDAP clients? We're a bit fuzzy on the details. Are we on the right track?
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12:06<cgraf>blast007: yes running unstable. this is true blast007
12:06<ompaul>blast007: sid and unstable are one and both the same
12:06<blast007>ah, right, I meant testing
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12:06<cgraf>but not more advisable, then installing the .deb. i know it sounds illogical, but if im not mistaken, this is the accepted debian way to solve this problem
12:06<ompaul>Altimeter: you are climbing in the right direction
12:07<SynrG>it's one sight to see on the way up the mountain
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12:07<Altimeter>That's ... encouraging, I think.
12:08<ompaul>don't think, just accept and drop the pause, that's encouraging ;-)
12:08<gnugr>Altimeter:take a look at
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12:09<Dark_light>cgraf: are there the headers too?
12:09<funkyHat>Altimeter: have you looked at debian edu?
12:09<Altimeter>gnugr, we threw DebianEdu on one machine as a server, and it didn't really ... work as much as we'd hoped, and because it tries to do so much automagically, I didn't trust standard debian help and the documentation just isn't there for DebianEdu.
12:10<Altimeter>I mean, it's there, but there's fewer people posting "Hey, I had this exact problem you're experiencing and here's the exact answer"
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12:11<babilen>Dark_light: sure, look for linux-headers packages
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12:13<Dark_light>babilen: it depends on a package that's not yet aviable though
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12:14<babilen>Dark_light: should be fine
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12:14<babilen>Dark_light: You can't install a package that you can't install
12:15<babilen>(I know, it's ... well ... a bit of a tautology)
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12:15<Dark_light>well yeah, hopefully it'll get there soon
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12:18<cgraf>Altimeter: i support debianedu wholeheartedly. but there is no way to outdo the support level of the mainstream release of debian. Probably the idea would be eventually that your academic institution would influence debian-edu to eventually meet its needs. by filing bug reports, and patches and so on.
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12:20<Altimeter>cgraf: Philosophically I like that idea. Practically, we're two guys giving up some of our summer break to try to get our computer lab in a usable condition for next year with no budget and no IT department, and the quicker route to the solution is desirable.
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12:24<cgraf>If you can spare the time, maybe tell everyone exactly what you need to get these computers doing. This sounds like a very interesting project
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12:24<retrospectacus>and what kind of hardware you have
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12:24<Altimeter>Oh. Essentially, we've got some computers that were donated from a local university running Windows XP. Pentium 4's, I think, 1 GB of RAM, that sort of era.
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12:26<Altimeter>We're a private school in the states that doesn't charge tuition, so our budget is whatever we get donated. Our computer lab was essentially unusable this year, as we had a mix of computers running Windows installs so old it would take all class to boot and tell me it's not working.
12:27<retrospectacus>I'd consider making them "thin clients" if you have a more powerful server available to host for them
12:28<SynrG>Altimeter: practically, who can help you maximize your time spent solving the same problems other edu users have solved, then?
12:29<SynrG>we could attack each problem you have, one at a time ...
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12:29<SynrG>but we'd probably cover a lot of ground that debian-edu tries to address in a neater package.
12:29<Altimeter>I happen to have a relatively nice Fujitsu-Siemens workstation that used to serve as an image processing beast on an MRI device, but I've never setup thin clients before.
12:29<SynrG>this is all without having looked either at debian-edu's feature list *or* your list of requirements, however.
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12:32<SynrG>Altimeter: and i hear what you're saying about doc, and doing things automagically, but perhaps just a small investment in time making both those things better will save you more time in the long run? just a thought.
12:32<cgraf>SynrG is right, i was wrong to say that. all of the solutions that come to my mind for this are pretty complicated. i am over eager because you project sounds neat
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12:34<Altimeter>I mean, the quick version
12:34<Altimeter>Er, mistype.
12:34<SynrG>Altimeter: at the beginning of every large project tackled for the first time, before you've figured out all the parameters, there's a tendency to way underestimate what it will cost to do each thing. mid-way through doing it on your own is not the time to be discovering that you only have 1 week left in the summer and have only delivered 50% of what is needed :)
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12:35<Altimeter>SynrG: Before it reaches that point, I'll manually install Debian desktop on the 10 boxes I have to work with and forget it. We're a small school. *shrugs*
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12:35<SynrG>sure. good to have a contingency plan :)
12:35<retrospectacus>Altimeter: I'm not sure I'd follow this exactly but this gives a good idea of how the LTSP thin-client paradigm works - see how you like that idea
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12:36<retrospectacus>Altimeter: that's OK if you don't care about having the same accounts/programs/setup on each computer i.e. each student uses the same PC each day
12:36<SynrG>Altimeter: and don't get me wrong. i'm not strongly pushing for debian-edu. but it's sad that you've rejected it so quickly for lack of decent doc :p
12:36<cgraf>i love retrospectacus thin client idea btw. thats how i would eventually want it done.
12:37<upSMSl33t>i have try to install debian 7.0 on my non-pae laptop and i have a problem with my usb boot
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12:37<upSMSl33t>i have this message : no default or ui configuration directive found
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12:38<retrospectacus>upSMSl33t: what iso file did you download and how did you create the USB stick from it?
12:38<upSMSl33t>i have create my usb stick with lili usb creator
12:39<upSMSl33t>iso file is : debian-live-7.0.0-i386-gnome-desktop.iso
12:39<retrospectacus>upSMSl33t: no need for that, use "cat" "dd" or "cp" as per the installation guide
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12:39<retrospectacus>upSMSl33t: that is the live OS, not an installer. Is that really what you want?
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12:39<Altimeter>retrospectacus, the difference between that setup and the one we have now is at least the computers will work better.
12:40<upSMSl33t>yes i need to try this os before install it
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12:40<Altimeter>SynrG, I feel ya. But, the scripts the documentation pointed me to caused me to probably break stuff and the simple solution I see is to just retry the install. The install took a good four hours last time we did it, and I have to be really convinced it's all worth it to go for it again.
12:41<cgraf>upSMSl33t: thats not an installer image, you found the option to install in the boot menu im guessing ?
12:41<SynrG>Altimeter: sure. understood
12:42<retrospectacus>upSMSl33t: you should create the USB with one of the simple commands I mentioned, not "lili" - the iso is usb-ready already, no need for that wrapper stuff
12:42<upSMSl33t>how to show options in the boot menu ?
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12:43<cgraf>upSMSl33t: you should download the actual installation image.
12:44<cgraf>and then put it to USB the way that retrospectacus is saying
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12:46<upSMSl33t>ok and i need to format my usb stick in fat32 ?
12:46<someone>hi debian lovers
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12:46<Calinou>who said we loved debian?
12:46<someone>no one
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12:46<cgraf>i love debian, cmon, obviously
12:46<retrospectacus>upSMSl33t: no; it will become ISO9660 (?) -formatted when you "cat" or "dd" or "cp" the ISO onto it
12:47<someone>i have one question
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12:48<someone>i need to disable RADEON
12:48<someone>and i dont know how ?
12:48<upSMSl33t>ok so i download on /debian/dists/wheezy/main/installer-i386/current/images/cdrom/ the 3 files : debian-cd_info.tar.gz initrd.gz vmlinuz
12:48<upSMSl33t>i put the 3 files in my usb stick and that will work !
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12:49<cgraf> more like that
12:50<someone>any one here my machine will burn :''(
12:50<cgraf>and put that 1 .iso file to the USB
12:50<retrospectacus>upSMSl33t: not sure where that came from... you want a file like debian-7.0.0-i386-netinst.iso
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12:51<retrospectacus>upSMSl33t: with this command: cat debian-7.0.0-i386-netinst.iso > /dev/sdb ; sync
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12:51<upSMSl33t>are there a manual somewhere ?
12:51<retrospectacus>upSMSl33t: that is if /dev/sdb is your USB stick. Make absolutely sure you are writing on the correct device
12:51<retrospectacus>dpkg: tell upSMSl33t about usb install
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12:54<upSMSl33t>in conclusion, there are a lot of possibility to install debian on my laptop but i'm novice, i need the more simple solution please
12:55<retrospectacus>someone: "you need to disable radeon" why? what is your actual problem/goal ?
12:55<thatguychuck15>I can't get thunar to recognize any media I place in either of my CD/DVD drives. USB's mount just fine. However, if I put in media and run touch /dev/sr1 it will then show up. Could this be a udev problem?
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12:55<retrospectacus>upSMSl33t: say "ig" to the dpkg robot who sent you a message just now
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12:56<SynrG>someone: so your problem is you have a dual-GPU system with intel integrated gfx and radeon and you have heat issues with having radeon enabled so you want to disable it?
12:56<SynrG>someone: i don't know the answer. but i want to help clarify what it is you're up against.
12:56<someone><retrospectacus> the temperature of my machine is very elevate because of the Radion
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12:57<upSMSl33t>ok i will come back...
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12:57<retrospectacus>someone: you can blacklist a module by writing "blacklist radeon" in a .conf file in /etc/modprobe.d/
12:58<someone>but is there a solution for optimus
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12:58<dpkg>The Bumblebee project aims to provide support for the Nvidia Optimus GPU switching technology on Linux systems. GeForce 400M (4xxM) and later mobile GPU series are Optimus-enabled; if «lspci -nn | grep '\''[030[02]\]'» returns two lines, the laptop likely uses Optimus. Packaged for Debian in <testing> and <wheezy-backports>. #bumblebee on
12:59<someone>but NOT RADEON
12:59<SynrG>and you said optimus, so ...
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12:59*SynrG shrugs
13:00<someone>*/exec lspci | grep VGA
13:01<someone>there is two GPU cards, the active one is the Radeon
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13:01<SynrG>i have heard it said ( that fglrx supports dual gpu. but that's unsubstantiated on that page and besides which, ubuntu-oriented ...
13:02<SynrG>that being said, debian has fglrx and that *may* have support for what you want. i really can't say.
13:02<thatguychuck15>someone: While not ideal, does your BIOS provide an option to disable one or the other?
13:02<SynrG>!fglrx dkms
13:02<dpkg>For Debian 7.0 "Wheezy" users. Ask me about <contrib> and <non-free sources>. «aptitude -r install linux-headers-`uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,'` fglrx-driver && mkdir /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d ; echo -e 'Section "Device"\n\tIdentifier "My GPU"\n\tDriver "fglrx"\nEndSection' > /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-fglrx.conf». Restart your system to enable the <radeon> blacklist.
13:03<cgraf>yeah i would try getting that ati card working with the output of above someone . And it automatically blacklists radeon, if that is truly what you need
13:04<Dark_light>I can't send emails with kmail + gmail
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13:50<cgraf>whats the best file for setting environment variables for root. i am using /etc/profile or /etc/profile.d/ and passing these out of the initramfs.
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14:00<stderr>cgraf: For root and everyone else or just for root?
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14:13<BunBun1>hello everybody, there is some keys on my keyboard there are broke so i usually use on screen keyboard for those keys in ubuntu but not i have formattet my computer with debian and i have found kvkbd (a on screen keyboard) but it dosn't support my language (Danish). Can anyone tell me what the default on screen keyboard in ubuntu is so i can get it on my debian =)
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14:25<stderr>BunBun: I don't use Ubuntu, so I can't tell you what they use. Is xvkbd the only one you have tried?
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14:29<ompaul>blast007: systemsettings would be more applicable ime
14:29<ompaul>or the gnome version of same
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14:37<BunBun>stderr, kvkbd is the only one i have tryed yes
14:38<stderr>Oh, xvkbd is another option.
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14:38<stderr>florence seems to be another one.
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15:10<uuiie>Hi all
15:10<retrospectacus>hi uuiie
15:11<remun>noob here, whats a good program to write img files to usb?
15:11<Dark_light>remun: dd
15:11<uuiie>What platform?
15:11<retrospectacus>remun: cat
15:11<Dark_light>dd if=name.img of=/dev/sdX
15:12<uuiie>go to dash home and search for Start up Disk Creator
15:12<retrospectacus>uuiie: this is Debian support
15:13<uuiie>I though this would also work on Debian not sure though
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15:14<uuiie>Anyway thanks all for your support, I am new to IMRC plz tell how to chane channel?
15:14<stderr>/join #another-channel
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15:16<remun>Dark_light, didnt know it could be that easy, thanks
15:17<Dark_light>sure np, remember sdX where X stands for the usb drive you have to write to
15:17<Dark_light>usually sdb
15:17<mju>remun: be carefule that you have the right disk as /dev/sdX, otherwise you'll overwrite your hard disk!
15:17<Dark_light>exactly ^
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15:17<remun>yea I know, Im a noob but not that much of a noob
15:18<mju>Ok, good to hear. :-)
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15:18<remun>thanks guys
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15:21<Dark_light>mm gufw doesn't show up in the kde menu
15:21<Dark_light>but it does have a .desktop file
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15:26<TiDjY>hello everybody
15:27<TiDjY>I want a qemu package for debian with rbd 7 support?
15:27<TiDjY>I want a qemu package for debian 7 with rbd support?
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15:31<Dark_light>TiDjY: if it's not already compile with that option the only thing you can do is rebuild it yourself
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15:33<TiDjY>Dark_light: where I can find the default compiler options?
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15:33<wookey>On a machine upgraded to wheezy the xcfe logout dialog doesn't have hibernate listed. And it's greyed-out in xfce-power-manager menu
15:33<wookey>but it works from the command-line. What's missing?
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15:35<TiDjY>thank you very much
15:36<woden>Hi, I added i386 architecture to my amd64 system and then installed a bunch of i386 packages. Now I want to reverse everything. Is there an easy way to remove all i386 packages on my system and then remove the i386 architecture from my config?
15:37<Dark_light>woden: dpkg -l | grep i386 and you'll get a list of all the i386 packages installed
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15:37<wookey>dpkg --get-selections | gre
15:37<dpkg>wookey: parse error: dunno what the heck you're talking about
15:38<woden>Dark_light: Thanks. Is there a way to modify the output so I can just get the names of the packages? Otherwise Im going to have to sort through a bunch of text output.
15:39<Dark_light>woden: pkg -l | grep i386 | cut -d " " -f 3
15:39<Dark_light>woden: *dpkg -l | grep i386 | cut -d " " -f 3
15:39<wookey>dpkg: xfce (desktop env) has a logout button in bottom right corner. On my laptop that shows 'logout''shutdown''restart''suspend'. On the desktop only 'Logout' is available. 'restart' and 'shutdown' are greyed out. 'suspend' is not shown at all
15:39<dpkg>wookey: that's too long
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15:40<wookey>oh d*pk is a bot
15:40<woden>Dark_light: This is why I love linux. Thanks again :)
15:40-!-aidalgol [] has joined #debian
15:40<Dark_light>np ;)
15:41<cgraf>Dark_light: though that was a helpful link, i think this is more of an official debian documentation
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15:42<Dark_light>cgraf: I can't belive I missed it I even searched for it
15:42<cgraf>the idea being if you know better than the debian wiki, to suggest a change to it, as opposed to using another source, to link to peers.
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15:42<cgraf>Dark_light: article you linked was pretty good though, nice find
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15:43<wookey>woden: dpkg -l | awk '/ i386 / { print $2 }' is a better rune to get a list of packages to remove
15:44<wookey>plain grep i386 will might some amd64 packages with i386 in the name
15:44<wookey>still not perfect
15:46<blast007>or grep for :i386 in the previous example with cut
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15:48<No_Thanks_I_dont_need_a_nickna>Hey guys, I have an nvidia card, reported as
15:48<No_Thanks_I_dont_need_a_nickna>00:05.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: NVIDIA Corporation C51 [GeForce 6150 LE] [10de:0241] (rev a2)
15:48<sney>,pciid 10de:0241
15:48<judd>[10de:0241] is 'C51 [GeForce 6150 LE]' from 'NVIDIA Corporation' with kernel modules 'nouveau', 'snd-hda-intel' in wheezy. See also and the out-of-tree 'snd-hda-intel' module.
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15:49<No_Thanks_I_dont_need_a_nickna>So I was wondering if I should keep the free drivers or use the proprietary ones
15:49<blast007>do the free drivers work well enough for you?
15:49<sney>that depends on which features you want. geforce 6150 is not a fast gpu in any case, but the nvidia proprietary driver supports more of what it can do
15:49<No_Thanks_I_dont_need_a_nickna>When I was installing Ubuntu with 3.5 kernel, it was slow and eventually the driver crashed
15:50<No_Thanks_I_dont_need_a_nickna>So I don't know if the slowness was just Unity or the driver not working\
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15:50<blast007>Are you using Ubuntu or Debian?
15:50<woden>Dark_light: Do I need to refresh dpkg somehow? I removed all the i386 packages but the command you gave me is showing that they are still installed.
15:50<wookey>use the free drivers unless they are hopelessly broken
15:50<No_Thanks_I_dont_need_a_nickna>Debian now
15:50<No_Thanks_I_dont_need_a_nickna>Ubuntu kept crashing
15:50<roberto>ciao a tutti
15:50<wookey>woden: that command just lists them
15:50<roberto>ciao a tutti
15:50<Dark_light>woden: mmmm what command did you use?
15:50<No_Thanks_I_dont_need_a_nickna>wookey: anyway to quickly test that? Ubuntu crashed after around 3 hours
15:50<majlo>Hi guys, I wanted to try new intel pstate driver, so I installed 3.9.1 from experimental, but intel_pstate is not here.
15:51<woden>Dark_light: aptitude remove <a whole bunch of i386 packages>
15:51<Dark_light>majlo: zcat /proc/config.gz | grep PSTATE
15:51<sney>No_Thanks_I_dont_need_a_nickna, basically, you'll want the nvidia driver if you want functional 3d. if you're just using irc/browsers/etc and nouveau is working okay, then stick with it
15:51<wookey>you need to add a | xargs dpkg -P to actually remove them all
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15:52<woden>is that a purge?
15:52<Dark_light>woden: ^
15:52<wookey>No_Thanks_I_dont_need_a_nickna: it's tricky if it just crashes from time to time - hard to know if it's graphics or not
15:52<woden>wookey: Thanks
15:52<wookey>woden: yes
15:52<Dark_light>majlo: could you tell me what it outputs? I'm interested too
15:52<wookey>use -r if you want to remove packages and preserve configs
15:52<wookey>(instead of -P)
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15:52<No_Thanks_I_dont_need_a_nickna>wookey: Well, it was a kind of fail to idle channel thing
15:53<Dark_light>majlo: mm actually there's no /proc/config.gz, grep it from the config file in /boot
15:53<wookey>No_Thanks_I_dont_need_a_nickna: do you mean fail to suspend?
15:53<majlo>Dark_light: I checked cat config-3.9-1-amd64 | grep PSTATE and it shows # CONFIG_X86_INTEL_PSTATE is not set
15:53<sney>No_Thanks_I_dont_need_a_nickna, ubuntu and debian have pretty stark differences. so referring to a crash in ubuntu is kind of irrelevant here. just try using nouveau, and if things start going to hell again, try the proprietary driver. everything else is academic
15:53<majlo>So it wasn
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15:53<Dark_light>majlo: that's a real shame I was really looking forward to it
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15:54<Dark_light>it does make quite a difference here
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15:54<woden>wookey: man aptitude says -P is for prompting user.
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15:54<wookey>woden: man dpkg
15:54<woden>Oh, remove them with dpkg, not with aptitude?
15:55<wookey>either should work. I suggested dpkg. apt might be safer
15:55<wookey>man apt-get
15:55<woden>aptitude purge <packages>
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15:56<wookey>right. try that.
15:56<No_Thanks_I_dont_need_a_nickna>wookey: I'll try. Do you think a stress test, like the phoronix ones, might bring about a crash quicker, if there is a crash at all on Debian?
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15:57<wookey>no idea. I just used noveau and put up with it crashing for a while until after a few updates it started working
15:57<majlo>Dark_light: do you think it was intentional to not built it in or just a mistake and will be in some near future ?
15:57<wookey>reliably (and I was able to turn acceleration back on)
15:57<sney>nouveau was really bad in squeeze but it's better in wheezy
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15:57<blast007>No_Thanks_I_dont_need_a_nickna: that might trigger a crash, but you might not get a crash under normal usage. I'd just recommend using it until it becomes an issue.
15:57<sney>I agree with blast007
15:57<Dark_light>majlo: no idea, you should ask
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15:58<No_Thanks_I_dont_need_a_nickna>blast007: Ugh, the person who's using this computer won't identify the problem correctly.
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16:00<majlo>Dark_light: thanks, will ask, really want to test it, but don't want to rebuild a kernel...
16:01<sney>kernels are probably the easiest debian packages to make
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16:02<sney>time consuming sometimes, but that's it
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16:04<cgraf>its true, its very easy to re-use that config file, and just add an y or an m for module to the option you want. or follow any of the methods detailed here
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16:11<Dark_light>majlo: if you want there are the -pf kernels available but I get an error about tpm during boot on my hw:
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16:11<sney>third party kernels are built with all kinds of weird crap enabled sometimes
16:12<sney>the "hey this looks cool" approach to make menuconfig - fine for personal use, questionable for distribution
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16:14<majlo>Yes, don't want to install this odd stuff. Want to test it during normal work, and in normal work I'm using stock kernels. Will rebuild kernel in free time.
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16:14<Dark_light>sure I was just saying
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16:15<Dark_light>majlo: in case you do it soon drop me a line I'd like to test it too
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16:16<majlo>Not today, but maybe tomorrow will find a second to do this..
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16:16<child>how to create your own mail server?
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16:17<Dark_light>majlo: also I've never built a kernel on debian so do you know if the linux-kbuild-3.9 package gets built with it ?
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16:17<majlo>No, it's not if I remember.
16:18<Dark_light>because the headers depends from it
16:18<majlo>But kbuild for 3.9 is in so will be in repo in a moment
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16:18<majlo>you can download it from incoming now and install using dpkg, then install kernel in standard way
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16:18<bullgard4>[Wheezy] LightDM before login lets me select between »Default Xsession«, »GNOME«, »GNOME Classic«, or »Xfce session«. Where are these 4 operationg modes described in fair detail?
16:19<Dark_light>yes but half of the reason why I'd like to use it is because of PSTATE so I'd rather wait for now
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16:25<majlo>mhm, understand, if there will not be any update until tomorrow I will rebuild stock kernel. Will share result debs if you will want.
16:27<Dark_light>I'll pm you my email
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16:37<No_Thanks_I_dont_need_a_nickna>Can I get some quick chmod help? I want to change the permissions for a certain unimportant file to user
16:38<No_Thanks_I_dont_need_a_nickna>but it was created by root
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16:38<No_Thanks_I_dont_need_a_nickna>I tried chmod /home/me/sda2.img rwxrwxrwx
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16:39<retrospectacus>you want chown
16:39<retrospectacus>and chmod doesn't work that way
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16:40<sven>where is the transition from runlevel S to runlevel 2 defined?
16:40<sven>from 1 to S is in /etc/rc1.d/single
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16:41<stderr>/etc/inittab defines the default runlevel.
16:41<stderr>If that's what you're asking.
16:42<sven>hm, true
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16:42<sven>i was wondering what exactly happens when rcS.d/ has completed
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16:42<sven>i'll check the init and insserv stuff
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16:45<stderr>sven: Short story: The scripts in /etc/rc2.d/ is run. K[somenumber]* is run with a "stop" argument and S[somenumber]* is run with a "start" argument.
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16:48<sven>stderr: right. so i take it that debian's init will -- after runlevel S -- find the default level in inittab, and then execute rc2.d/*
16:49<stderr>Roughly speaking, yes.
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16:52<sven>nice, makes sense
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16:53<stderr>No problem.
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17:12<Altimeter>We got a thin-client server running on debian. It's super cool to see windows XP boxes boot into Gnome 3. Thanks for the suggestion!
17:13<Altimeter>The faculty member I was working with got really excited when he realized he only needs to install the printer once...
17:13<bullgard4>[Wheezy] LightDM before login lets me select between »Default Xsession«, »GNOME«, »GNOME Classic«, or »Xfce session«. Where are these 4 operationg modes described in fair detail?
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17:14<mtn>bullgard4: wikipedia would be a good place to start
17:15<bullgard4>mtn: No.
17:15<retrospectacus>nice one Altimeter :)
17:15<mtn>bullgard4: ok
17:15<sney>bullgard4, looks pretty straightforward to me. what's the actual question?
17:16<retrospectacus>bullgard4: try them and see
17:17<bullgard4>retrospectacus: I have tried them and have not seen the question answered.
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17:18<bullgard4>sney: I'd like to know what is a "Default Xsession" . I would like to know what is meant by "GNOME" here.
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17:19<sney>bullgard4, the default xsession is set using alternatives (usually automatically.) Gnome is a desktop environment; in wheezy it's Gnome 3.
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17:21<KitsuneKokuen>Hi can anyone help me with installing lilo?
17:22<dpkg>Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
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17:23<KitsuneKokuen>I'm trying to install lila to dev/sda 5 and when i choose install lilo from the debian installer, it goes to the manual partitioning menu. I am unsure of what to do next.
17:25<bullgard4>sney: Thank you for your help. -- Based on what you said I will do more research.
17:25<sney>installing a bootloader comes after the partitioning step, are you sure you have the right button selected at the bottom of the dialog?
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17:27<sney>are there any errors or warnings present in the tty4 console
17:28<KitsuneKokuen>How do i access the tty4 console? I am rather new to console
17:28<KitsuneKokuen>to linux*
17:28<KitsuneKokuen>not console sorry
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17:29<babilen>KitsuneKokuen: You might also want to consider installing grub2 and not lilo these days :)
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17:30<KitsuneKokuen>I have to use lilo because im installing it as a dual boot on my macbook pro
17:30<KitsuneKokuen>all of my instructions have come from here :
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17:32<retrospectacus>tty4 is accessed by pressing Alt-F4
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17:38<KitsuneKokuen>i have no errors in the tty4 console
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17:43<sney>KitsuneKokuen, if you select the grub option does it proceed to the next step or return you to the partitioning screen?
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17:50<robert>hello debians
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17:50<retrospectacus>hi robert
17:51<robert>how are you huys
17:51<dpkg>This is not a chat channel, this is a Debian user support channel. Unless you have a Debian support question, please chat elsewhere, like #moocows on or #defocus on
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18:02<patwotrik>is there a pidgin plugin to block messages with regexp?
18:02-!-daniel-s [~daniel-s@2001:388:608c:4c40:884b:29bd:bfe:3c9] has joined #debian
18:03<patwotrik>i'm sick of reading poorly spelled messages :)
18:04<mbentley>patwotrik: this probably isn't the best place to ask as that really isn't debian specific.
18:04<patwotrik>mbentley: true
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18:04<retrospectacus>patwotrik: try #pidgin on
18:04<mbentley>thanks retrospectacus. i was just doing a quick search to find a pidgin specific channel.
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18:05<patwotrik>why can't all channels be on the same server?
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18:05<sney>that's even more offtopic. because of reasons.
18:06<patwotrik>yea, but it was not a question
18:06<patwotrik>just complaining
18:06<SamB>actually, there's secretly more than one server on each network ...
18:06<retrospectacus>why can't everyone use one OS?
18:06<cgraf>this is crazy
18:06<SamB>then we wouldn't have anywhere to steal patches from
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18:07<patwotrik>it was just that i'm using pidgin for irc, and joining another server takes a bit of work
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18:08<patwotrik>but thanks for the help
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18:09<Chav>How do I replace getty with ngetty?
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18:10<retrospectacus>apt-get install ngetty ?
18:11<Chav>No, I mean, so that ngetty gets invoked instead of getty in future.
18:11<patwotrik>found it
18:11<mbentley>Chav: probably need to edit /etc/inittab
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18:11<mbentley>replace /sbin/getty with the path to ngetty
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18:11<Chav>mbentley: cool, I'll check it out.
18:12<mbentley>Chav: you might want to try it on a single tty before doing it on all of them.
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18:13<mbentley>Chav: , fyi, you can reload inittab without reboot by executing "init q" if i remember correctly.
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18:14<Chav>mbentley: ah, i see. Inittab automatically launches 6 ttys. I'lll just change one or two for testing purposes.
18:14<Chav>Are ttys assigned on a first-come-first-served basis? ie. tty1, then tty2 etc.?
18:15<mbentley>they go in numerical order
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18:15<Chav>mbentley: Thanks. So, tty1 will be the login prompt that appears after boot, and if I ssh in that'll be tty2?
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18:16<SamB>Chav: no
18:16<mbentley>no, tty2 is the 2nd tty which is shown when you do a alt+f2
18:16<SamB>if you ssh in, that is normally be pts/$N
18:16<SamB>where $N represents a number
18:17<SamB>also pretend I used consistant grammar
18:17<Chav>SamB: hehe
18:17<Chav>Yeah, I don't think I understand the tty concept.
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18:19<mbentley>Chav: pts is a pseudo terminal. tty is a terminal
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18:22<mbentley>Chav: i found a quick explanation here >> "The difference between TTY and PTS is the type of connection to the computer. TTY ports are direct connections to the computer such as a keyboard/mouse or a serial connection to the device. PTS connections are SSH connections or telnet connections. All of these connections c
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18:22<Chav>mbentley: I think I need a primer on the tty concept. I'll read up and … and you're five steps ahead of me. Cool :)
18:22<SamB>actually xterm and the like also use pts
18:23<SamB>basically any userspace terminal emulator will
18:23<mbentley>Chav: i just pretend ;) and yes, that's a good point SamB. i wasn't thinking about those.
18:23<SamB>as well as any software-connected remote terminal
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18:25<Chav>So, if I'm only using a max of 3 SSH connections and one local connection to the Debian box, I only really need one tty and 3 pts?
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18:25<mbentley>Chav: the pts will automatically generate.
18:25<SamB>I wouldn't recommend setting a low limit on the number of ptses
18:26<SamB>or pts or whatever you call them
18:26<mbentley>Chav: and yes, while you could only run one tty, i wouldn't suggest it.
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18:26<SamB>and leaving the ttys at the usual 6 is probably prudent
18:26<sney>having more doesn't introduce any security or resource usage issues
18:26<mbentley>the system resources that are consumed by them are next to nothing
18:26<Chav>I'm running Debian as a CLI only. Why do I need more than 1 tty?
18:27<SamB>(well, there will be other dev nodes normally, for those dynamically allocated by the likes of X)
18:27<SamB>Chav: same reason someone might open multiple xterms
18:28<SamB>that is, doing more than one thing at a time
18:28<SamB>(like reading a manpage on one while constructing a command line in another)
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18:28<retrospectacus>talking on IRC, and listening to music...
18:28<zykotic10>Chav: tmux (or screen) FTW ;)
18:29<mbentley>Chav: while you may not think you will need multiple, i've certainly ran into some situations where having multiple has come in handy. certainly no reason to potentially cripple yourself :)
18:29<SamB>zykotic10: yes, that IS another option certainly
18:29<Chav>I don't understand. My install of Debian has no GUI. How can I spawn an independent terminal?
18:30<zykotic10>SamB: my virtual consoles also go to 11 ;)
18:30<retrospectacus>Chav: by pressing Alt-F3, F4, etc and logging into them
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18:30<SamB>zykotic10: hmm, I guess today's keyboards have enough F keys for that ;-)
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18:30<Chav>retrospectacus: I had no friggin' idea! Hmm. Like virtual desktops?
18:30<zykotic10>SamB: well one F12 for Xorg ;)
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18:31<retrospectacus>hmmm kinda, sure
18:31<Chav>Well, I never.
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18:31<SamB>well now you do!
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18:31<Chav>I still plan on working solely from SSH, but I guess knowing this influence my choice here. Thanks guys :)
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18:41<Chav>OOC, what would happen if I commented out all the ttys in inittab? I wouldn't get a login prompt locally but I could still SSH in?
18:42<Chav>(I'm not thinking of doing this, it's purely hypothetical)
18:44<mbentley>hmm, i've never tried it
18:44<mbentley>...i have VMs though :)
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18:49<mbentley>Chav: it just never turns any terminals but yes, you can login via ssh or via serial connection if you have one enabled.
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18:52<Chav>mbentley: Interesting. I guess I could do that if I have someone in the house while I'm at work…
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18:53<mbentley>Chav: probably best to just have complex passwords :)
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18:53<Chav>Where's the fun in that???
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20:58<Chav>I'm installing something from source with checkinstall. Does apt-get somehow know what the dependencies are for such packages, or do I have to specify?
20:59<Infiltrator>Chav: I think that you have to tell checkinstall what the dependencies/conflicts/replaces are.
20:59<Arrowmaster>checkinstall cant do dependencies
21:01<Chav>Ok. Possibly contradictory responses. Checkinstall offers a "--requires" option, which allows me to list dependencies. It's not clear what this does though, exactly. At least to me.
21:01<Arrowmaster>i ment it doesnt do anything automatically
21:01<Chav>Arrowmaster: ah, ok. Cool :)
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21:01<Arrowmaster>youll have to list everything manually
21:02<Chav>Understood. Now I have to figure out the dependencies for Netatalk 3. Fun.
21:03<abrotman>ew, why?
21:03<Chav>abrotman: you talkin' ter me?
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21:07<abrotman>Chav: yes, why are you still using netatalk
21:07<Chav>abrotman: I'll let you explain why I shouldn't be, that's probably easier ;)
21:09<abrotman>Chav: isn't that the protocol for old MacOS clients?
21:10<Chav>abrotman: yes and no. Netatalk 2 supports appletalk (is that right?), but Netatalk 3 offers full support for OS X's current filesharing protocol.
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21:12<abrotman>ah okay
21:13<Chav>If I found a list of dependencies for a different Linux-based distro, would that probably be applicable to Debian too?
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21:16<Infiltrator>Chav: Does the nettalk3 documentation not list its dependencies?
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21:17<Chav>Infiltrator: Not that I can find.
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21:24<Infiltrator>Chav: What about it's configure script? I know it's not the best way of finding it, but it might be a start.
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21:27<Chav>If I don't specify the dependencies, a future apt-get autoremove could trash something it relies on, right?
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21:30<Chav>Oh, no, wait. I did a search for Prerequisites and got a hit.
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21:32<Chav>I think I found a bug or something. Tab auto-complete on apt-show-versions doesn't work properly. It inserts "-bash: _comp_dpkg_installed_packages" and automatically executes, instead of autocompleting.
21:36<Chav>nvm, it works now.
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21:38<cgraf>Chav: "aptitude why" shows some info about dependencies.
21:39<Chav>cgraf: I'm guessing that only works on installed packages?
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21:41<cgraf>are there are any error messages when you execute the program from a terminal?
21:42<Chav>cgraf: Um, I'm not sure what you mean. It's possible you may have got the wrong end of the stick. I'm trying to find the dependencies for Netatalk 3 prior to running checkinstall.
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21:46<lindsay-shuford>whats with switching to gnome 3 on debian 7 wheezy?
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21:48<abrotman>guess he didn't want to know
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21:51<Chav>If I'm running as root, why would I get a, "mkdir: cannot create directory `/usr/local/var': No such file or directory" error running checkinstall?
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21:51<abrotman>do it manually?
21:52<Chav>Sure. But why did it happen in the first place?
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21:59<Chav>It keeps happening with more folders. I have to create them manually before it continues. Most likely a checkinstall bug?
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22:29<digitsm>I'm using Linux Mint Debian Edition, and recently I can not boot up my system
22:30<abrotman>digitsm: wrong channel, you want #linux-mint on
22:30<digitsm>abrotman: I ask there
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22:30<digitsm>no one could help me
22:30<abrotman>digitsm: that's not our problem, you can install Debian if you like
22:31<digitsm>also #linuxmint-help is very very crowded.
22:31<digitsm>OK Thanks
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22:32<digitsm>When I installed LMDE I thought I could use Debian repo. I though it's completely Debian Compatible. But unfortunately their repo is very different and outdated that debian repo
22:33<digitsm>Anyway, I guess the main root of my problem is from updating some packages in LMDE from Debian repo
22:33<digitsm>By the way, thanks for your attention
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23:20<likevinyl>digitsm, ping
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23:21<likevinyl>go to official #linuxmint-help over irc
23:21<likevinyl>thnx :)
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---Logclosed Tue Jun 04 00:00:05 2013