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#debian IRC Logs for 2013-06-22

---Logopened Sat Jun 22 00:00:08 2013
---Daychanged Sat Jun 22 2013
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01:12<bullgard4>'~$ LANG=C apt-cache show x11-xserver-utils; xrdb, a tool to manage the X server resource database.' Where (in what location) is the »X server resource database« stored?
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01:14<SamB>in the X server
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01:19<Hades-TKC->Hi all.
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02:12<bullgard4>SamB: Excuse me. I used a not-quite-corrrect term. I meant: "in what file is the »X server resource database« stored?
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02:13<SamB>bullgard4: the database itself isn't stored in a file, though maybe you'd be interested in ~/.Xresources
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02:17<SamB>specifically, the database is stored in the memory of the running X server
02:17<SamB>~/.Xresources is normally used to initialize it
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02:33<bullgard4>SamB: In my Wheezy originally ~/.Xressources did not exist. I created this file several months ago and entered one entry for xterm and several entries for urxvt. -- Thank you very much for your help.
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02:34<SamB>no problem
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02:41<Osiris_X>is there a point in the boot process where it is too early execute an iptables command?
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02:44<SamB>Osiris_X: how about "before the kernel is loaded"
02:44<SamB>that's sure to be one
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02:45<Osiris_X>SamB: indeed! I'm executing an iptables command out of /etc/network/interfaces - but the rule seems to disappear by the time boot is complete
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02:46<SamB>do you have any packages installed that do anything to do with firewalling ?
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02:47<Osiris_X>SamB: as far as I am aware only pgl - but I don't believe it wipes rules does anything with the POSTROUTING chain
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02:48<SamB>okay, that was all I had, but at least I got you to spit out your actual problem ;-)
02:49<Osiris_X>SamB: :) thx
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02:53<jmmy>How can I test if I have a mail function available?
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02:58<jmmy>what mta is easiest. I just want to be able to use php mail()
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03:45<cibegtd>since 1.5 month i get almost every morning kerenel panic when i turn my computer on.
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03:46<ectospasm>are you hibernating or suspending it?
03:46<cibegtd>i have to turn off the computer and after that it works fine
03:46<cibegtd>ectospasm: no
03:46<cibegtd>a part of error is:
03:46<ectospasm>is there a reason you're shutting it down?
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03:47<ompaul>the cost of electricity the noise it's usual with desktops :)
03:47<cibegtd>ectospasm: because the computer does not do any thing
03:47<cibegtd>the error is:
03:47<cibegtd>call Trace:
03:48<ectospasm>My computer does a lot when I'm not there, updates my mirror, is a source for several backup processes during the day.
03:48<ompaul>cibegtd: usually a sign that some hardware is having issues
03:49<cibegtd>kernel panic - not syncing: Fatal exception in interrupt
03:50<cibegtd>pid: 0, comm: swapper/6 tainted: G D 3.2.0-4-amd64
03:50<ompaul>cibegtd: make sure your backups are up to date and you have more than one copy would be a pity to be updating the backup and the machine goes down
03:50<cibegtd>#1 debian 3-2.46-1
03:50<ompaul>damaging both itself and backup
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03:51<cibegtd>is there any developer online?
03:51<cibegtd>is this a bug in wheezy?
03:52<ectospasm>sounds like bad hardware to me, too
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03:52<ompaul>cibegtd: buy a new computer
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03:53<cibegtd>a student can not buy a computer every 4 years
03:53<Calinou>they can, by not drinking, smoking
03:53<Calinou>also by building a PC 8
03:54<ompaul>cibegtd: you live as you live
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03:54<Calinou>also, that problem also happens to me, but panics are rare
03:54<Calinou>some guy said it could be an unstable BCLK, causing RAM to be too fast
03:55<Calinou>in this case, reduce RAM speed
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03:56<cibegtd>Calinou: i think i have a "normal life" without strange and expensive hobbies
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03:57<cibegtd>however it is difficult to buy (assemble) a new one
03:57<ompaul>cibegtd: buy a second hand one for a few euros and get on with your life
03:57<cibegtd>Calinou: it can be the reason
03:58<cibegtd>Calinou: i'll try it
03:58<ompaul>why did it suddenly start doing this
03:58<cibegtd>don't know
03:58<ompaul> |
03:59<ompaul>cibegtd: neither do we - as the machine is booting start the memtest
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04:00<Calinou>or do a memtest
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04:15<cibegtd>ok i'm going to memtest
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04:15<ectospasm>it could be a totally different piece of hardware that is malfunctioning.
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04:23<Calinou>bad PSU, possibly
04:23<Calinou>or too low CPU/RAM voltage
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04:25<peter1138>hmm, empathy in wheezy is hanging, wonder how to diagnose
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04:32<ectospasm>peter1138: I'd run it from a terminal emulator.
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04:54<Rubidium_>smuxi on debian 7: can not connect with twitter; debug mode gives: The Twitter REST API v1 is no longer active. Please migrate to API v1.1.
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05:00<ekiwok>debian installator cannot connect to any mirror server :( DNS and etc works, I'm using debian liveCD
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05:03<ekiwok>In error logs I have smth like that: apt-setup: apt-install or in-target is already running, so you cannot run either of them again until the other instance finishes
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05:05<babilen_>ekiwok: Could you try a normal installation image? For example ?
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05:08<ekiwok>babilen, I haven't, I'll try it now
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05:14<ronny>is there any quick howto fir making a usb stick into a bootable usable system for panicked people?
05:15<devil>ronny: dd if=/your/iso/ of=/dev/sdX
05:16<devil>that works for panicked and unpanicked
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05:16<ronny>devil: there is a problem tho, i need the nonfree firmware to get network
05:16<ronny>devil: also i want a installed system on the usb stick that can always be used
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05:16<devil>then use one of the kmuto isos
05:17<ronny>whats that? and where are those, google shows some japanese guy on twitter
05:18<devil>well, he is a japanes DD
05:18<babilen>Aren't they still on squeeze?
05:18<devil>he provides images with firmware and newer kernels
05:18<ronny>yeah, they are squeeze
05:19<devil>babilen: well, they have what ronny needs
05:19<ronny>devil: also how do i turn one of thos dd'd images into a real debian?
05:19<ronny>(i want a full debian on the stick)
05:19<devil>ronny: you use them as they are
05:19<babilen>We provide images with firmware directly :) --
05:19<devil>they are just unofficial, nothing wrong with them otherweise
05:19<devil>ups, new to me
05:20<blami>ronny: afaik you can loopmount iso, copy files on fat stick, add non-free firmware and then run syslinux on it. But that's rather for unpanicked people ;)
05:20<babilen>well, they are directly from Debian. unofficial only in the sense that they cannot be official as they include non-free software
05:20<babilen>ronny: But you should look into Debian live with persistence -- See for information about that
05:21<blami>does live boot from efi?
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05:22<babilen>blami: I don't know -- #debian-live would probably, but I wouldn't be surprised if it does.
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05:22<ekiwok>babilen, Debian installer fails at step "install base system" with claim that no suitable kernels can be found :(
05:23<ekiwok>I'm doing expert install and all steps as far went great, I have internet connection also DNS works
05:23<babilen>ekiwok: Sounds familiar, are you installing from USB?
05:24<ekiwok>babilen, yes
05:24<babilen>How did you create it?
05:24<ekiwok>babilen, I used unetbootin but always before I used dd and then it worked fine
05:24<ekiwok>babilen, I have no idea why I'm not using dd now :/
05:24<ronny>so well, i need a usb stick that can ssh into my vserver, do networking, rsync and install a new system
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05:25<ekiwok>babilen, is it possible that unetbootin is a problem?
05:25<babilen>yes, unetbootin is .. well .. I shouldn't say it. Suffice to say that it breaks our installers and really shouldn't be used. You can just copy (as in "cp debianimage.iso /dev/sdX ; sync") the image directly to a USB (that is /dev/sdb for example, not /dev/sdb1 or so)
05:26<babilen>dpkg: tell ekiwok -about usb install
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05:26<ronny>the netinstall one doesnt have all i need
05:26<ronny>thats kinda a bummer
05:27<babilen>ronny: You did take a look at the live cd didn't you?
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05:28<ronny>babilen: from what i found, the with firmware stuff only comes as netinstall
05:29<babilen>You can always copy the firmware to the second partition on a USB stick (if you install from USB) -- The installer images are, however, meant for installing which is, at least from what I've heard so far, not what you want. That is why I suggested to take a look at debian live with persistence
05:29<babilen>dpkg: tell ronny -about installer firmware
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05:30<ekiwok>babilen, I used dd now and trying to install :)
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05:31<babilen>ekiwok: I find dd to slow and it has awkward syntax and therefore very much prefer to use cp .. but the end result doesn't make a difference, so: Have fun!
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05:31<babilen>*to be slow (with the default blocksize, which is scaled automagically by cp, cat, ...)
05:31<ronny>so i start by dd-ing a cd image, then i create a partion after it and put the files in there?
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05:32<babilen>ronny: If you *cp* (see above) the image to a usb stick you have two partitions on there already. You can then mount the second partition and unpack there
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05:34<ronny>*cp*? i think im missing something very obvious right now
05:34<babilen>dd is really not needed, you can use cp to copy between block devices just fine. It has easier syntax (no weird of=/if=) and scales the blocksize automatically for good performance. It makes sense to use dd if you have to skip bytes or want to copy a particular number of bytes/blocks ... For simple "copy data form A to B" cp is just fine and even better
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05:34<weasel>just use cat
05:34<babilen>There is nothing special about dd that grants it "deeper" access or something like that.
05:34<babilen>weasel: Yeah, cat is just fine too
05:35<weasel>I like using dd though, because I can kill USR1 it
05:35<babilen>(it used to be suggested in the installation guide prior to wheezy)
05:35<samantha-r->so i want to create a list of files rsync {would|would not} transfer in a given situation, without actually doing the transfer, via ssh. is this possible with some tool i haven't seen yet?
05:35<weasel>with cat or cp I have to cat proc/pid/fdinfo
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05:35<weasel>samantha-r-: --dry-run?
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05:35<ronny>btw, is bar usable as well? (it has a progress bar)
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05:36<samantha-r->weasel, cha-ching, i missed it in the man page. ty.
05:36<babilen>weasel: Well, that is certainly a good point, but then don pointed me to dcfldd which is a replacement for dd with more features .. I've used it ever since in lieu of dd
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05:37<weasel>I'm unlikely to have that installed everywhere though
05:37<ronny>btw, would be a wget url -O - > device be feasible?
05:38*babilen hands weasel an 'package { "dclfldd ensure => "installed" }'
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05:38<weasel>oh no, even more syntax errors
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05:39<ekiwok>babilen, :D it seems to work now, I've spend like 4 hours yesterday with that error here and noone find out it's metter of unetbootin
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05:39<ekiwok>babilen, thank you very much
05:40<aidalgol>What's the command to get the current runlevel?
05:41<babilen>weasel: yeah, almost :)
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06:01<ronny>ok, i got the stick prepared but i have no idea how to do the persistence thing, i fail to comprehend
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06:03<ronny>(my /dev/sdb1 is a unknown hidden boot from copying the image, i suppose now i need to make a ext2 partition with some label and figure how to name things?
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06:11<benvei>hey there, i'm trying to setup a loop device, but it fails with "unknown symbol":
06:11<benvei>does anyone know about this problem?
06:12<gsimmons>benvei: I think you meant "max_loop", not loop_max.
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06:12<benvei>gsimmons: damn. Thanks. :)
06:13<benvei>gsimmons: uh, false server. Even without any parameters i'm getting the same error
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07:44<wwu>hello is lib32asound be removed ?
07:45<abrotman>judd: versions lib32asound
07:45<judd>No package named 'lib32asound' was found in i386.
07:45<abrotman>wwu: are yo usure that's the real package name?
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07:46<wwu>of course
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07:46<wwu>but lib32 should not be in i386
07:46<wwu>it is on amd64 only
07:47<abrotman>judd: versions lib32asound --arch amd64
07:47<judd>No package named 'lib32asound' was found in amd64.
07:47<abrotman>that's not the package name
07:47<abrotman>judd: versions lib32asound2 --arch amd64
07:47<judd>Package: lib32asound2 on amd64 -- squeeze: 1.0.23-2.1; wheezy: 1.0.25-4
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07:48<wwu>i know it should
07:48<wwu>what will replace this ?
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07:52<ciccio> di spade
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08:00<xsile>is the use of armitage a guessing game, anyone know
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08:04<xsile>hello chaos
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08:05<chaos>no idea about armitage :P
08:05<chaos>what's that?
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08:07<xsile>Armitage is a scriptable red team collaboration tool for Metasploit that visualizes targets, recommends exploits, and exposes the advanced post-exploitation features in the framework.
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08:19<cleaninc>So I just upgraded to Ubunto 12.04 and I hate it. Is it possible to convert to debian 'in-place'?
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08:21<Sblair1986>cleaninc is your home directory on its one partition?
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08:23<ronny>ok, lets start this again, i finished copying the boot iso to the usb stick, now i need a howto i can comprehend for setting up a persistent home and firmware files for it
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08:26<ronny>i stumbled uppon which explains persistence, but not eactly how to enable persistence always by default
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08:26<TCW>"If you reply, please be as complete as possible, paste your person object in the e-mail and explain SixXS what you think went wrong." <<-- what does "person object" mean there? I am no native english speaker and I guess I have an issue translating that correctly :)
08:27<ronny>TCW: what software are you dealing with
08:28<TCW>ronny, huh?
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08:30<ronny>TCW: nm, i missread
08:30<abrotman>TCW: the URL might help for context?
08:31<abrotman>TCW: also, not related to Debian, please use #debian-offtopic
08:31<TCW>ronny, SixXS == ipv6 tunnelbroker; a company / organisation thet gives ipv6-addresses and subnets for everyone who wants.
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08:32<TCW>abrotman, I know... and I feel somewhat sorry to ask that here... but will go to #d-ot..
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08:36<ronny>so again, how to get nonfree firmware into a live usb (that was made by write a iso to a usb stick
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08:39<wardhan>i have screwed up rtorrent or screen settings. i am using rtorrent+screen. it is showing 2013-06-22;18:08 [0 rtorrent] 1$ bash & screen (0: rtorrent) below readings. how do i fix it ?
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08:46<babilen>ronny: You might want to take it to #debian-live which is a channel specifically for live support -- I think I mentioned that earlier
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08:47<ronny>babilen: ok, thx
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08:48<babilen>ronny: That channel is, however, not as active as this one so be patient, ask your question and idle for a while (like in most channels)
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08:51<vivek_>hello, is there any hope to see xorg 1.13 in debian repository anytime soon?
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08:52<abrotman>vivek_: eventually, sure
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09:04<Sblair>Hello I installed Debian Stable with LXDE on a laptop and desktop. On the laptop I can manage all my network connections in Network Manager without root privileges but on the laptop I cannot edit my connections. Im trying to locate what the differences in the install are. I like how my laptop manages the connections and I would like to make my desktop to act the same way.
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09:08*Tiff slaps dpkg around a bit with a large trout
09:09<babilen>Tiff: Please play elsewhere
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09:12<babilen>Sblair: What do you mean that you cannot edit the connections? Is it a permission error or does NM simply not manage wireless connections desktop?
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09:15<babilen>Sblair: Is /usr/lib/policykit-1-gnome/polkit-gnome-authentication-agent-1 running on both if it is a permission problem (if you are not asked to authenticate when you try to edit system connections) -- Otherwise it might be that the connection on the desktop is configured in /etc/network/interfaces and therefore not managed by NM
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09:22<dpkg>ercues: È possibile di scaricare un sacco di software libero puntando il tuo browser a !
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09:47<Sblair>Thank you <babilen> It was in /etc/network/interfacees. I commented it out but the edit option is still grayed out. Looking into the policykit now.
09:51<Sblair>polkit-gnome-authentication-agent-1 exists on both.
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09:57<babilen>Sblair: I take it that you did restart (at least NM), didn't you? I am also not asking if it exists but if it is running :)
09:57<babilen>Sblair: Good luck, have to run now :)
09:58<Sblair>Thanks babilen looking policykit to find that out. Thanks for the help
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10:15<kiree>Hey, i just upgraded debian and i can nolonger mount my network drive. I keep getting a permission denied and reffers me to the man page of cifs. Anyone can give me a hint on whats changed? (this is my fstab line) // /mnt/networkdrive/ cifs username=username,password=1234,_netdev 0 0
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10:15<kiree>this doesnt anymore either: "sudo mount -t cifs // /mnt/networkdrive/ -o username=username,password=1234
10:15<Sblair>can anyone suggest a good guide for policykit?
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10:25<mwcampbell>I notice that Debian Wheezy has version 27 of Chromium, which was released long after the Wheezy freeze last year, while Iceweasel is still at version 10. I'm probably misunderstanding something, but it seems that Chromium is getting special treatment.
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10:29<haylo>mwcampbell: the iceweasel version numbering scheme is not commensurate with that of firefox's
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10:29<haylo>also there are almost always newer version of iceweasel in backports.
10:30<dpkg> (formerly is an official repository of <backports> for the current stable and oldstable distributions, prepared by Debian developers. Ask me about <backport caveat> and read to enable and use. See also <bdo kernel> <bdo mirrors> <bdo contents> <bdo list> <bdo bugs> <bdo xorg> <bdo NEW>.
10:30<mwcampbell>haylo: My point is that it's reasonable for a stable distribution to use Iceweasel 10, since IIUC that's based on the Firefox release that was the current extended support release when Wheezy was frozen. But why does Wheezy get the latest version of Chromium long after the freeze?
10:32<haylo>well it would make sense that they need more version numbers , being that it doesnt work correctly
10:32<mwcampbell>More generally, IIUC, why does the freeze for stability apply to nearly everything in the repository except Chromium?
10:32<haylo> :)
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10:35<musca>mwcampbell: iceweasel 10 is dead, the security team has anounced to support iceweasel 17 now.
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10:38<abrotman>IW10 is the ESR
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10:40<mwcampbell>musca: Does that mean that Iceweasel 17 will be pushed into Wheezy too?
10:41<abrotman>!iceweasel esr
10:41<dpkg>Iceweasel Extended Support Release, see . See also <mdn>.
10:41<musca>,v iceweasel
10:41<judd>Package: iceweasel on i386 -- squeeze: 3.5.16-20; squeeze-security: 3.5.16-20; squeeze-backports: 10.0.12esr-1~bpo60+1; wheezy: 10.0.12esr-1; jessie: 10.0.12esr-1+nmu1; wheezy-security: 17.0.6esr-1~deb7u1; sid: 17.0.6esr-1; experimental: 21.0-1
10:41<musca>wheezy-security: 17.0.6esr-1~deb7u1;
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10:45<musca>abrotman: and yes, it possibly breaks some packaged xul-extensions in stable
10:45<mwcampbell>I thought security updates were supposed to be backported to the stable release, rather than breaking the freeze to push new versions. I guess that's impractical in the fast-moving web browsers.
10:45<mwcampbell>I hope WebKitGtk isn't the nexzt to break that rule.
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10:48<mwcampbell>,v xulrunner-10.0
10:48<judd>Package: xulrunner-10.0 on i386 -- squeeze-backports: 10.0.12esr-1~bpo60+1; wheezy: 10.0.12esr-1; jessie: 10.0.12esr-1+nmu1
10:49<mwcampbell>,v xulrunner-17.0
10:49<judd>Package: xulrunner-17.0 on i386 -- wheezy-security: 17.0.6esr-1~deb7u1; sid: 17.0.6esr-1
10:49<abrotman>you can msg the bot also
10:49<mwcampbell>oh, oops
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10:51<mwcampbell>So naturally, xulrunner 10 won't get security updates either. Meaning that the rule-breaking doesn't just apply to packages at the top of the stack (Iceweasel), but also to packages that other things might build on.
10:52<mwcampbell>I guess I'm disappointed because I feel that something as rock-solid and conservative as Debian has had to cave to outside pressure and selectively break one of its long-standing policies.
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10:55<yamada>hello, i need tutorial : how to change the wallpaper in grub grub 1.99-27 in debian jessie
10:57<kiree>anyone that can shed some light on this? Happens when i try to mount a network drive (samba/cifs) "mount error(13): Permission denied Refer to the mount.cifs(8) manual page (e.g. man mount.cifs)" - i updated my system but cant figure out what has changed.. =S
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10:58<mwcampbell>yamada: I'd start by looking for common image file extensions (.png, .jpg) in any files under /etc/grub
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10:59<mwcampbell>yamada: I'm sorry, /etc/grub.d
11:00<yamada>there is no image file
11:00<yamada>only that : 00_header 10_linux 30_os-prober 41_custom
11:00<yamada>05_debian_theme 20_linux_xen 40_custom README
11:01<mwcampbell>yamada: I wasn't clear. Scan the *contents* of those files, using grep, for image filename extensions.
11:01<yamada>how ?
11:02<mwcampbell>Are you familiar with grep?
11:03<yamada>not rily not quite
11:03<haylo>yamada: read that
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11:03<haylo>no reason to pontificate on grepping around for image files. the process is well documented
11:05<mwcampbell>haylo: Ah, OK. I was trying to teach yamada to fish, to find the answer from first principles, the way I probably would.
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11:07<abrotman>that'd be a good plan
11:07<mwcampbell>haylo: Admittedly though I assumed that there would already be a graphical splash image in the existing configuration. What you did is probably best.
11:09<yamada>ok thanks, I can handle it
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11:36<lucian>i got a little problem with my touchpad on debian wheezy
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11:38<mwcampbell>lucian: Please describe the problem.
11:38<lucian>well right click doesn't work
11:38<lucian>i mean it works as left click
11:39<mwcampbell>lucian: Have you hooked up a USB mouse to see if the problem is actually with the touchpad specifically?
11:39<lucian>with mouse right click works
11:39<lucian>on touchpad, it doesn't
11:41<StefCT>lucian: does left click work as left click?
11:41<lucian>StefCT, yes
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11:41<StefCT>that's odd
11:41<lucian>and right click as left click
11:42<StefCT>I had the same issue with other OS because I'm left-handed and therefore always swap the mouse keys
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11:42<StefCT>this worked with the touchpad but not with the mouse (or vice versa, I don't remember)
11:42<K0JIbKA>lucian: This is preset condition for touchpad / mouse by default. Can be changed through control panel
11:42<StefCT>but left click twice, that's new to me
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11:43<lucian>K0JIbKA, i didn't find anything i control panel
11:43<lucian>that would change smth like this
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11:44<StefCT>mouse buttons can be changed with xmodmap as well (in the command line)
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11:45<StefCT>this command is deprecated though
11:45<StefCT>but I think it's still available
11:45<lucian>so what can i do?
11:45<StefCT>xmodmap -e "pointer = 3 2 1" for left handed
11:46<StefCT>for normal: xmodmap -e "pointer = 1 2 3"
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11:46<StefCT>you could try with xmodmap, but I have no clue whether it helps in your case
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11:47<StefCT>I guess it might be a particular issue with your hardware
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11:47<StefCT>maybe it would help to google your particular laptop model
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11:47<StefCT>if you haven't done that already
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11:48<StefCT>those issues can be a bit tricky... often I solved them through what seemed sheer luck
11:48<StefCT>but I'm admittedly not the biggest expert in here, so maybe someone else has better ideas
11:48<lucian>StefCT, that command didn't work
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11:49<StefCT>does anything change if you use xmodmap, like left button suddenly working like right button or something like that?
11:49<StefCT>or nothing at all?
11:50<StefCT>I mean, if you use xmodmap command to swap right and left button, does your left button (that worked correctly before) work like a right button afterwards, or still like a left button?
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11:51<valex>it doesn't change anything
11:52<StefCT>ok, with my thinkpad t61 this command works correctly in Wheezy
11:52<StefCT>so I guess it could be something hardware related
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11:52<StefCT>I think I had that once with an older netbook
11:53<StefCT>maybe you need to install something extra to support your hardware
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11:53<StefCT>and that's where I'm lost, because hardware and drivers and the like aren't my particular field of experties
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11:55<dpkg>Synaptics is an driver for laptop touchpads/trackpads. Install the xserver-xorg-input-synaptics package and "man synaptics" for driver options; configuration tools include synclient and gpointing-device-settings. Not working? -> "modprobe -r psmouse ; modprobe psmouse". . See also <clickpad>, <trackpoint>.
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12:13<babilen>Sblair: So, both things together solved you issue?
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13:14<jrabbit>is there anyway to change how trackpad scrolling momentum works? in gnome shell?
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13:16<shaun>ciao all
13:17<shaun>babilen: got that system repaired for my friend (he destroyed /boot)
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13:33<ToApolytoXaos>greetings everyone. this is for those who use chromium on debian testing: has anyone notice a sudden speed increase on sound whether that is from video or streaming media?
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13:35<die7>hi is there some install iso without efi
13:35<die7>me mac mini freeze so not abe o install wheezay
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14:01<qoro1>hey everyone. is there a possibility to do checkinstall without actually installing the package (just creating deb)?
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14:38<nef>fuck so many people...
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14:41<mdxzero>that's bored if nobody say something........were is the conversation? nothing happed ...dem a talk...nobody talks
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14:46<dpkg>#debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
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14:49<mdxzero>better to read a book
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14:57<babilen>mdxzero: Please try to stay on-topic in here. If you want to chat then join #moocows, #debian-offtopic or look for a different network.
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15:03<mdxzero>babilen, I need good a handbook
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15:05<musca>mdxzero: apt-get install debian-handbook debian-kernel-handbook
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15:13<mdxzero>musca, that isn't such easy, I need a Linux book that's not only for beginners but should include enough info for understanding all basics.
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15:21<mdxzero>musca, and secondly my english is not the best but I'm not stopping learning. of cuz I like to stay in this chat but for these time it is better for me with a german handbook.
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15:25<weasel>*of course
15:25<mdxzero>I'm trying to organize IT-english courses ............. O.K that would work
15:25<musca>hehe, at the botom of the list: German Edition of "How to become a UNIX-Guru?"
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15:26<musca>And ... How To Look Like A UNIX Guru
15:26<musca>Everything is a stream ...
15:27<mdxzero>o.k. thanks, that's enough
15:28<musca>have fun :)
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15:37<mdxzero>musca, are these streams available in english too?
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15:38<musca>mdxzero: "Everything is a stream" was a quote from "How To Look Like A UNIX Guru"
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15:40<mdxzero>I haven't got fast internet so I have to ask
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15:41<mdxzero>all right
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16:34<Neal>is it recommend to use /run instead of /var/run now?
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16:35<dpkg>policy is the document that defines how Debian packages should (and must!) interact with each other and with the user to make sure we have a high-quality, stable distribution. You can find it at or in the debian-policy package. Those who fail to understand Debian Policy are doomed to reimplement it, poorly. See also <best practices> <nmg> <mentors>.
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16:45<SamB>Neal: from <>: 7. The additional directory /run in the root file system is allowed. /run replaces /var/run, and the subdirectory /run/lock replaces /var/lock, with the /var directories replaced by symlinks for backwards compatibility. /run and /run/lock must follow all of the requirements in the FHS for /var/run and /var/lock, respectively, such as file nami
16:45<SamB>ng conventions, file format requirements, or the requirement that files be cleared during the boot process. Files and directories residing in /run should be stored on a temporary file system.
16:46<Neal>SamB: cool! I just installed wheezy and the default nginx conf changed the pid location so i was wondering
16:47<SamB>no problem
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17:23<harryoops>Ive had soo many network cards in my machine that a I have removed, now I removed them all and have installed a new gigabit card, but ifconfig eth0 through eth10 up
17:23<harryoops>shows nothing
17:23<harryoops>yet my card is listed in lspci
17:24<harryoops>how can I flush the cache of network cards so its eth0 again?
17:24-!-monpingouin [] has joined #debian
17:24<harryoops>RTL8169 Gigabit Ethernet Controller
17:24<harryoops>I cant bring it up with eth0 eth2 eth3 or anything
17:25<harryoops>I tried all the way through eth10
17:25<harryoops>Everytime Ive added a new network card through the years its incremented them, eth3, then eth4 etc
17:25<harryoops>But, its still incrementing them and the old cards no longer exist
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17:26<harryoops>Im in a headless command line environment btw
17:26<harryoops>Debian 7
17:26<monpingouin>You use a virtual machine ?
17:26<harryoops>its a physical machine
17:27<monpingouin>a clone with ghost or clonezilla ?
17:27<harryoops>no sir
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17:27<harryoops>regular plain jane install of debian on an old box
17:27<abrotman>!tell harryoops about z70
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17:28<monpingouin>With a virtual machine, the number of network card change. It's a problem with udev
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17:28<monpingouin>We remove /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-network
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17:30<monpingouin>Then we reboot the machine and the network card eth1 returns eth0
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17:32<harryoops>Im clearing that and rebooting
17:32<harryoops>I think thatll flush it
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17:34<harryoops>yeah its just that I have had soooo many network cards in this over the years
17:35<harryoops>multiple dual port cards
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17:35<harryoops>sec ill let ya know how it went
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17:37<monpingouin>Your network cards are correctly detected with good numbers ?
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17:37<harryoops>only one network card now
17:37<harryoops>shows up in lspci just fine
17:38<monpingouin>ok and if you use ifconfig eth1 up ?
17:38<harryoops>ifconfig eth0 up "cannot assign requested address"
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17:38<harryoops>eth1 through 10 "No such device"
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17:39<harryoops>grr still no dice
17:40<harryoops>dhclient eth0 "Network is down"
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17:41<harryoops>erm, im lost, throw me a bone
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17:41<monpingouin>sorry, i don't know the issue of your problem. May be a driver problem with your ethernet card ?
17:42<abrotman>dmesg | grep eth
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17:43<harryoops>says my card is eth0
17:43<harryoops>r8169 eth0:
17:44<harryoops>maybe I deleted something I shouldnt have when i cleared 70-persistant-net.rules
17:44<harryoops>its still empty
17:44<harryoops>how to make it "generate" again?
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17:46<abrotman>it already did
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17:46<piper>harryoops: what does your /etc/network/interfaces look like should look like
17:47<harryoops>I know how to setup /etc/network/interfaces
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17:47<harryoops>auto eth0
17:47<harryoops>iface eth0 inet dhcp
17:47<harryoops>auto lo
17:47<harryoops>iface lo inet loopback
17:48<harryoops>70-persistant-net.rules has zero entries in it
17:48<harryoops>ill reboot again
17:49<piper>auto eth0 ?
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17:50<harryoops>why not, its always worked for me before
17:51<harryoops>yeah same crap it isnt bringing eth0 up
17:51<harryoops>any suggestions? lol, Im really at a loss here
17:51<abrotman>any other errors?
17:51<harryoops>nah everything else is running great
17:52<harryoops>dhclient throws an error obviously
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17:52<abrotman>i meant related to eth0
17:53<harryoops>dmesg | grep eth0
17:54<harryoops>r8169 blah blah eth0: jumbo features [frames blah blah] [checksumming: OK ]
17:54<harryoops>but ifconfig eth0 up fails
17:54<harryoops>SIOCSIFFLAGS: Cannot assign address
17:55<marsboer>is network-manager isntalled?
17:55<harryoops>hell no
17:55<harryoops>I dont use that nonsense
17:55<harryoops>its headless cmd line only box
17:55<abrotman>n-m has nothing to do with this
17:55<marsboer>ip link show?
17:55<harryoops>loopback only
17:56<harryoops>I did ifconfig eth0 down and ifconfig eth0 up
17:56<harryoops>to see if I could get it back manually but no dice
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17:56<harryoops>SIOCSIFFLAGS: Cannot assign address
17:56<marsboer>ip link set eth0 up
17:57<harryoops>RTL 8169 PCI Gigabit Ethernet Controller (rev 10)
17:57<harryoops>RTNETLINK answers: Cannot assign requested address
17:57<marsboer>what is the requested address?
17:57<harryoops>ip link set eth0 up
17:58<marsboer>it isn't the actual IP that you are trying to assign?
17:58<harryoops>Ip has nothing to do with it
17:58<harryoops>the interface wont come up
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17:58<harryoops>lights are on, brand new card
17:58<harryoops>cables plugged in
17:58<harryoops>lspci shows it
17:59<harryoops>RTL 8169 PCI Gigabit Ethernet Controller (rev 10)
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17:59<piper>why not try the way i have in paste above
17:59<harryoops>gimme a sec
17:59<harryoops>i gotta type it in
17:59<abrotman>maybe bad cables?
17:59<harryoops>brand new cables tested wit cable tester
17:59<harryoops>I cut them myself
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18:00<marsboer>I am curious if the "address" part is pointing to the nic-name (eth0), MAC-address or IP address
18:01<harryoops>coz when I do ifconfig eth0 up
18:01<harryoops>I get that error about cannot assign interface
18:01<harryoops>SIOCSIFFLAGS: Cannot assign address
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18:02<marsboer>yeah, but upping an interface normally includes a mac address and an IP-address too
18:02<marsboer>what IP are you trying to set?
18:02<piper>ifdown eth0 reboot router ifup eth0 only thing i can think of at the moment
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18:04<edo>synaptic pm tells me i have gcc-4.7-base installed, however the terminal says there's no such command as "gcc" or "g++", which are supposed to work.
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18:05<edo>am i missing something?
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18:06<abrotman>!b-e edo
18:06<dpkg>edo: Sounds like you need to aptitude install build-essential.
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18:06<crane>i'm trying to keep my home dir when sudo-ing. in ubuntu it is sudo -s. what's it in debian? the man pages said -H but that did not work for me or i did something wrong
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18:07<edo>abrotman...? dpkg, i'll do that. but what with the already installed gcc, should i remove it?
18:07<edo>before doing that.
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18:08<abrotman>edo: no
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18:10<edo>okay, thanks. by the way, generally is there a difference between aptitude install and apt-get install?
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18:12<piper>apt-cache policy gcc Installed: 4:4.8.1-1
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18:13<piper>apt-cache policy g++ Installed: 4:4.8.1-1
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18:17<harryoops>ok so there is a cache of the old hardware mac in udev associated with the previous eth0 card
18:17<harryoops>Ineed to clear that
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18:19<crane>harryoops, /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules
18:19<harryoops>yeah Its empty
18:19<crane>reboot the machine?
18:19<harryoops>but showing eth0:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff in error logs
18:19<harryoops>I have
18:19<harryoops>wtf kind of mac address is that anyway
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18:20<crane>dummy address
18:20<crane>sure tht the card is okay?
18:20<harryoops>macchanger to the rescue
18:20<harryoops>its new
18:20<harryoops>but ive seen wierder things happen
18:20<harryoops>on bootup
18:20<harryoops>RTNETLINK answers: Cannot assign requested address
18:20<harryoops>dhclient reportsd
18:21<harryoops>Listening on LPF/Eth0/ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
18:21<harryoops>ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff wtf
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18:21<crane>harryoops, lspci -k?
18:21<harryoops>sec its booting atm
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18:21<harryoops>heaps of servers
18:22<harryoops>daemons etc
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18:22<harryoops>this box is an inline url filter / antivirus machine with squid/c-icap, clamav, avg, kaspersky
18:22<harryoops>so it takes a sec to boot up
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18:23<harryoops>just upgrading the old 10/100 to gigabit today
18:23<harryoops>RTL 8169 PCI Gigabit Ethernet Controller (rev 10)
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18:23<harryoops>no other network interfaces exist, they used too
18:23<harryoops>so I cleared that udev persistant rules file
18:24<harryoops>I deleted everything coz this box used to have multiple dual port nics
18:24<harryoops>and I wanted my eth0 back
18:24<harryoops>I even tried
18:24<crane>running wheezy?
18:24<harryoops>udevadm trigger --action=change
18:24<harryoops>udevadm trigger --action=add
18:24<harryoops>all fail
18:25<harryoops>I mean they didnt solve the problem
18:25<crane>got also an rtl nic and the kernel is using the rtl 8169 driver
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18:25<crane>so it should be supported
18:25<harryoops>I see the problem here I think
18:25<harryoops>the mac address on the card is ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
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18:25<harryoops>lol macchanger verifies eth0 has that mac
18:25<crane>this is a broadcast mac address
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18:26<crane>so if this is the mac the card is really broken ^^
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18:26<harryoops>I manually changed the mac address with machcanger
18:26<harryoops>the card comes up now
18:26<crane>lock at the card
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18:27<crane>there should be an label with the correct mac address
18:27<crane>or if youre lucky on the box
18:27<harryoops>yeah I guess I can run macchanger on rc.local at bootup
18:27<harryoops>or can I do that in /etc/network/interfaces ?
18:28<harryoops>yay I got ip from dhcp
18:28<crane>if we change a nic on work we just clear the udev rules and reboot the machine
18:28<harryoops>yeah this nic might need a rom flash
18:28<crane>udev recognize the new nic and applys new rules for it
18:28<harryoops>oh crap
18:28<harryoops>I think I know whats causing it
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18:29<crane>ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff is also a broadcast mac address for dhcp
18:29<harryoops>I dunno but the nics loading with a bs mac address
18:29<harryoops>as soon as I manually change it, I can bring it up
18:29<harryoops>and get dhcp and ping out
18:30-!-mode/#debian [+l 567] by debhelper
18:30<crane>so ifconfig eth0 shows you after a reboot the mac address ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff?
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18:31<harryoops>ifconfig shows no interface it wont bring it up until the mac is changed
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18:32<harryoops>I just added a little script to rc.local and im rebooting
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18:32<harryoops>gerry rigg
18:32<harryoops>lol if it works w/e
18:33<crane>sounds so broken :p
18:33<harryoops>I think I can specify the mac in /etc/network/interfaces instead
18:33<harryoops>that would probably be a better solution
18:33<crane>i think using the branded mac address would be the best! ^^
18:33<harryoops>yeah on the sticker
18:34<harryoops>but w/e im too lazy to open the chassis again, any mac will do
18:34<harryoops>but maybe not
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18:44<stderr>harryoops: The first byte of the MAC-address indicates if it's a multicast or unicast address.
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18:45<harryoops> /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules is still empty
18:45<harryoops>not a single damn entry in there
18:46<harryoops>w/e Im re-enabling the onboard nic and updating the realtek firmware
18:46<harryoops>I had installed it when this was a squeeze box before upgrading to wheezy
18:46<harryoops>maybe its still the old version or something
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18:46<harryoops>voila the onboard nic is in
18:47-!-Brigo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:47<harryoops> /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules
18:47<harryoops>as it should be
18:47<stderr>You want the least-significant bit of the first bytes to be 0. And you probably should set the next-least-significant bit (i.e. 0x02) = NOT OUI-assigned.
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18:48<harryoops>ahh firmware-realtek was not installed
18:48<harryoops>this might be the reason
18:49<harryoops>Netgear GA311 Gigabit nic with realtel 8169 chipset
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18:49<harryoops>rebootin crossing fingers
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18:55<dELta>how can i fix my display card which is ati
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18:56<tgs3>dELta: what is the problem? what drivers?
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18:57<dELta>amd hd mobility readon 5000 series
18:58-!-lostson [] has joined #debian
18:58<dELta>i tired one more times but it is not working very well
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18:59<devil_>dELta: please be specific
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18:59<devil_>what is not working? what driver are you using/have you been trying
19:01<dELta>display driver
19:01<harryoops>its a NetQueer GA311 Gigabit card and the mac address its showing is ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
19:01<dELta>ati hd mobility R.
19:01<harryoops>also its not showing up in
19:01<harryoops> /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules
19:01<harryoops>sorry my bad
19:01<devil_>dELta: no info - no help
19:03<harryoops>to hell with it
19:03<harryoops>Im ordering a new network card
19:03<harryoops>I dont have time for this bullshit
19:06<harryoops>dont ever order a GA311 RTL8169 based gigabit card for Debian folks
19:06<harryoops>it wont fucking work
19:06<tgs3>harryoops: btw I have exploitable bug in RTL8169
19:06<abrotman>harryoops: what's uname -r ?
19:07<tgs3>abrotman: it is a command to show you the version of your kernel.
19:07<abrotman>tgs3: seriously?
19:07*tgs3 is being literal
19:07<abrotman>tgs3: please get a clue
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19:07<tgs3>lighten up :)
19:08<harryoops>the latest kernel for qheezy
19:09<harryoops>dont worry about it guys we did everything we could and I thank you for your effort
19:09-!-gilbert_ [~gilbert@] has joined #debian
19:09<harryoops>Im just going to buy a card based ona diff chipset
19:09<harryoops>I hate realtek anyway
19:09<tgs3>harryoops: I start to think RTL's are the cheapest cards for a reason
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19:09<harryoops>yeah realtek makes trash
19:09<tgs3>harryoops: you can check if newest kernel supports it
19:09<harryoops>Im not blaming this one on debian
19:09<tgs3>if yes, then you could get debian to import that patch
19:09<harryoops>I know realtek is trash
19:10<tgs3>if no, then inform LKML and they will fix it
19:10<harryoops>dude Ive disconnected the box and given up
19:10<harryoops>Ive got other things to do
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19:10<abrotman>may have needed firmware
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19:10<devil_>dELta: if you do not know how to give the info I asked for, why not say so
19:10<abrotman>judd: info firmware-realtek
19:10-!-iron [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
19:10<judd>Package firmware-realtek (non-free/kernel, optional) in wheezy/i386: Binary firmware for Realtek wired and wireless network adapters. Version: 0.36+wheezy.1; Size: 209.5k; Installed: 481k; Homepage:
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19:11<harryoops>yeah I installed that
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19:11<harryoops>it didnt help
19:11<abrotman>okay, just checking
19:11<harryoops>only way I could get the card to come up
19:11<harryoops>was by using macchanger and changing the mac from ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
19:11<harryoops>to something real
19:11<harryoops>then ifconfig would bring it up, and only then
19:11<abrotman>you can have a wildcard in that udev control file
19:12<stderr>harryoops: "Something real"? Like what?
19:12<harryoops>12:23:56:56:56:56 what diff does it make
19:12<stderr>The bits in the MAC-address matters as I said earlier.
19:12<harryoops>any suggestions for a good gigabit nic for debian?
19:12<abrotman>intel ones?
19:13<tgs3>I have intel that hangs
19:13<abrotman>you have problems with everything
19:13<abrotman>i suspect it's you
19:13<harryoops>I think you have problems
19:13<harryoops>personal issues
19:13<tgs3>abrotman: what?
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19:13<harryoops>I know who you are abrotman
19:13<abrotman>harryoops: the intel cards generally work pretty well.
19:13<harryoops>I seen your name on the web
19:13<abrotman>harryoops: I'm happy for you?
19:14<harryoops>im out
19:14-!-harryoops [] has quit [Quit: <<< session terminated on request]
19:14*abrotman isn't really on the web, but okay!
19:14<musca>Do you hear the silence?
19:14<abrotman>it's nice
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19:16<tgs3>anyway, intels can hang too
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19:16<abrotman>any NIC can have a malfunction
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19:18<tgs3>all I know is that computers with RTLs, intels, can hang at exact same time (in same lan) - hang their computer :|
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19:20-!-mode/#debian [+l 556] by debhelper
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19:22<stderr>There's only one solution: Let us all throw away our NICs and our computers won't hang anymore.
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19:23<tgs3>I mean frequently. Pointing out to that whatever hangs RTLs also can affect at least some intel cards.
19:23<tgs3>if you would need to replace NICs, what would you pick as most realible for gigabit lan?
19:24<abrotman>tgs3: you tell us, you seem to have found bugs in everything
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19:25<tgs3>I do not know what is your point, abrotman, reporting bugs is very helpfull activity in open source
19:26<abrotman>yes, so tell us which is hte most stable in your experience?
19:27<tgs3>I don't have enough sample size for this
19:27<tgs3>RTL8169 are worst I've seen. But then some similar "crappy RTL on mainboards" where working just fine
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19:28<lux__>I remember my dell would bluescreen when I attempted to install debian years ago.
19:28<tgs3>patches are in linux git to resolve some of low-end RTL problems. Maybe we could backport them to debian
19:28<lux__>by bluescreen I guess I mean froze at post
19:29<lux__>that would be debian 2.2 potato alot has changed!
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19:30<tgs3>it's long since any "doesn't install/boot at all" problem for me :) on PCs
19:31<lux__>anyone know if someones still working on the powerpc port, I may need to do an update soon ;/
19:32<abrotman>lux__: #debianppc is the channel i thnik
19:32<abrotman>!tell lux__ about ppc
19:32<lux__>lol its dead
19:32<tgs3>lux__: just google and check the project's page / subpage on ?
19:32<lux__>well there has been one person speak a line in the past week
19:32<abrotman>lux__: it runs on my mini ..
19:33<abrotman>lux__: there is one on each network
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19:33<lux__>I got the mdd quicksilver here running all types of server stuff, I want to move it all to the xserve bun need support I think
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19:36<lux__>will windfarm work on xserves horrable fanfarm?
19:36<lux__>I will go ask in #debianppc ..
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19:50<paul>hello amigos)
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19:50<KrisB> should I use identifier as it is ("My GPU") or change it?
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19:51<devil_>KrisB: does not really matter
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20:23<winsen>Hi all
20:23<winsen>can you please tell me what are PROS AND CONS of Sysadmin job? thanks
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20:28<anon123456>Hi I was wondering if I could get some help, just did a amd64 net install and now it just boots to a blank screen with blinking cursor
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20:36<piper>anon123456: what video card
20:36<anon123456>Radeon Hd 6900
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20:42<piper>anon123456: try adding to the bootline radeon.modeset=0 or
20:43<piper>!tell anon123456 fglrx dkms
20:43<anon123456>I can't get to the os though it just goes straight to that it's a fresh install
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20:45<piper>anon123456: can't see grub at all ?
20:45<anon123456>No its like the os isn't installed at all
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20:47<bjb>winsen: CON of sysadmin job: they might ask you to administer a non-Debian system
20:47<bjb>PRO of sysadmin job: you'll probably get a paycheque
20:49<bjb>More CONs: if you recommend to management some sensible steps to take re: investing in infrastructure, they might say no. And then they'll blame you when things break.
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20:50<trippeh>MIGHT. haha.
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20:50<trippeh>understatement of the year.
20:50<lux__>is someone available to test something for me?
20:50<bjb>More CONs: they'll ask you to do illegal, immoral things like install s/w without licenses and spy on employees.
20:50<piper>anon123456: what happens when you do Ctrl-Alt-F1
20:50<bjb>Actually, it's the employer's equipment, employees should expect to be surveilled.
20:51<bjb>They should not use it for their private personal use.
20:51<bjb>Personal use is ok. Personal use that they would be embarrassed about is their problem
20:51<sney>bjb, winsen, please take non-support discussions to #debian-offtopic
20:51<bjb>Illegal personal use is definitely their problem
20:52<anon123456>Piper: nothing happens
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20:54<tgs3>what... okular - "copy forbiden by DRM" ... wtf is this
20:55<anon123456>Nothing happens
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20:56<bjb>lux__: ask your question, don't ask to ask.
20:56<tgs3>it's a bit odd that okular, a package in "main" instead non-free, limits user experience with imaginary property
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20:58<piper>anon123456: did you install firmware-linux-free by any chance
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21:00<SamB>tgs3: it might be some stupid DMCA crap?
21:01<anon123456>No during the setup it just asked me if I wanted to install rtl_nic/rtl8168e-3.fw but I clicked no
21:01<SamB>tgs3: if there's not already a bug about that, I guess you should report it?
21:02<sney>tgs3, it is probably something about the file rather than the program
21:03<winsen>bjb: thanks you, you've been very attentive
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21:03<winsen>sney: well, well
21:03<anon123456>I did the guided setup with lvm, my other drives are currently formatted in ntfs could that be it?
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21:04<sney>tgs3, there are restrictions in pdf files that can do this, it's not a bug in okular unless you *know* there is no privacy restriciton on the file you are opening
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21:04<sney>anon123456, it sounds like the bootloader didn't get installed. do you remember what you clicked when it asked if you wanted to install grub to the MBR?
21:04<tgs3>sney: okular should work for me, the computer owner, not for some maffiaa somewhere in land of the free. Aren't DRM craps designated into non-free ?
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21:05<tgs3>already working around this limitiation is triviall, but it's just matter of principle
21:05<anon123456>I clicked install grub on full partition since it is the only os present
21:05<sney>tgs3, again, it has nothing to do with okular, it's the pdf file. if the file has some privacy or rights restriction in it, okular can only say "sorry, can't"
21:05<SamB>sney: it is a bug, it just might be legally-mandated
21:05<SamB>okular shouldn't have to do what the PDF says
21:06<sney>that.... is a noble idea, but wrong
21:06<tgs3>sney: why okular can not have option to ignore the flags and instead execute wish of the user? pdftotext didn't protest
21:06<piper>anon123456: no other video card to try
21:06<bjb>tgs3, okular can read the free pdf spec. Adobe has evolved acrobat beyond that, although I believe the extension is still pdf. So sometimes you are trying to read non-free format with okular - which results in the error you saw
21:06<SamB>sney: what's wrong?
21:06<sney>did pdf2text actually output everything in the file?
21:06<tgs3>we could have okular that does is this way in main, and okular-drm in non-free
21:06<bjb>tg3, free software is law abiding
21:06<tgs3>bjb: who's law?
21:06<bjb>contrary to what some people would try to advertize
21:06<sney>SamB, if there's some drm crap on the file, it's usually encrypted, and there's nothing okular can do about that. it can't just ignore it on principle of freedom
21:06<tgs3>there are 300+ legal systems on Earth now
21:07<SamB>sney: um, the cryptokey is right there in the file though
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21:07<piper>anon123456: if you cant even see grub, maybe try a live cd
21:07<anon123456>No its the only one I got
21:07<bjb>Well, you're getting out of my area of expertise tgs3. Also, out of the realm of tech support.
21:07<sney>look, file your bug against okular, 10 to 1 you get the same response from the maintainer as I just gave you
21:07<tgs3>sney: it can. there is a flag like if (drm_flag) message("Sorry can't do"); else copyit(); it's obvious since, as I said, pdftotext has no problem exporting all the text
21:08<SamB>maybe ask in #debian-devel or on debian-legal@ ?
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21:11<SamB>sney: I think the maintainer would be likely to give a more articulate response
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21:11<sney>ok, the same explanation I gave +- more words
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21:13<SamB>tgs3: pdftk or something might help?
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21:29<user01>hmmm so my gf left her laptop here for the weekend and i thought id surprise her and put linux on it on a dual boot . . . and not modify anything . . . however i see that all the primary partitions are taken so that if i resize one, it will force me to delete another
21:30<user01>should i just delete her recovery partition so i can create an ext4 partition to install linux on?
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21:31<sney>user01, "and not modify anything"
21:32<user01>sney, well i dont think her recovery partition is important . . . it would probably only be recovering windows
21:33<user01>it appears that there are tons of primary partitions already, windows boot, recovery, hp tools . . .
21:33<user01>not sure why they couldnt have used some extended
21:33<sney>it's usually a factory thing that ghosts the main partition with all the usual cruft that comes with the computer. I'd agree that it's disposable EXCEPT that she probably didn't get any of that on a disk with the computer. so if you delete it, and she needs to reimage windows for some reason, she's hooped
21:33<user01>sney, d'oh ... yeah true
21:34<user01>sney, she'd have to pay for disks probably
21:35<sney>yeah, or download one since the license part is taped to the bottom of the computer, but as a man with a
21:35<sney>as a man in a relationship, even, my advice to you is to just leave it
21:35<user01>i tried out her laptop and cant believe she finds it usable it is constantly downloading security updates and rebooting
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21:36<user01>windows updates norton updates hp updates . ..
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21:36<sney>you can get used to a lot
21:37<user01>sney, i thought about it and i keep thinking there are some things greater than love . . . like linux
21:38<user01>maybe i can copy her recovery partition onto my external hard drive
21:38<user01>ah no, maybe not it is ext4
21:39<user01>well from a linux live disk perhaps
21:41<sney>"honey welcome home, I broke your laptop... but don't worry it'll be ok"
21:42<user01>"thanks to open source"
21:42<user01>"free software"
21:42<Kow>clonezilla is your friend
21:43<SamB>the distinction is totally irrelevant here I think ;-)
21:43<user01>SamB, Stallman's assistant yelled at me last week for saying "open source"
21:44<SamB>stallman doesn't approve of Debian anyway
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21:44<user01>SamB, probably not after the decision to have binaries
21:45<SamB>how else are people supposed to install it
21:45<user01>SamB, use GNU Hurd?
21:45<SamB>we have binaries for that too
21:45<SamB>for at least a bit longer
21:45<SamB>maybe you're talking about binary blobs
21:46<SamB>which as far as I know are either in non-free or have source code too now
21:46<SamB>though it might be tricky to *compile* the source
21:48<user01>this gnome3 feature of minimizing all windows if i go to the upper left hand corner is driving me crazy
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22:13<jerryzhou>what is swap
22:13<jerryzhou>should it be 8G if the ram is 4G
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22:13<jerryzhou>why debian take it to 5
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22:20<sney>jerryzhou, if you have 4G ram and you aren't going to be editing video or anything, you barely need any swap
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22:21<sney>jerryzhou, the only thing is make sure you have the same amount of swap as ram IF you want to use suspend to ram. otherwise you could disable it
22:22<abrotman>user01: mine doesn't do that ...
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22:29<alhglkznd>I have an encrypted root partition that asks for a password. A second (raid/lvm) partition is configured in crypttab with a keyfile. When I boot I get asked for the password for the root partition and then again for the partition configured with a keyfile. If I leave the password blank the keyfile is read. Anyone know why the second partition asks for a password first?
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23:46<user01>hmmm so question . . . i plugged my encrypted usb hard drive into someone elses linux system, and it said no rights to view after i entered my password . . . would this have to do with a different user name on the other system or had i entered the wrong password?
23:47<SamB>user01: probably it's actually user numbers that would be screwing things up?
23:47<SamB>not sure
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23:48<j4jackj>is it OK to give solutions in search of problems?
23:49<user01>SamB, hmmm well i had backed up my last laptop, then reinstalled debian and had the same user name and it worked fine
23:49<user01>SamB, this is currently under another machine under another account
23:50<SamB>user01: what user number are you on that system
23:50<SamB>you can find out in /etc/passwd
23:50<user01>SamB, it is a live usb disk not sure
23:50<user01>SamB, ill go check . . .
23:50<SamB>hmm, okay, that wouldn't likely explain it then
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23:51<SamB>but who knows ...
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23:59<user01>SamB, actually from earlier it looks like i can just copy the recovery partition in linux live usb
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---Logclosed Sun Jun 23 00:00:18 2013