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#debian IRC Logs for 2013-06-25

---Logopened Tue Jun 25 00:00:03 2013
---Daychanged Tue Jun 25 2013
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00:13<birch>if i install debian on a hard drive, can i use that hard drive in a different system or does the install only work for that motherboard?
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00:14<SamB>birch: you normally can
00:17<birch>SamB, can you please give an example of when i couldn't?
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00:17<SamB>not really, no
00:18<j4jackj>hi. i have trouble with iptables and NAT.
00:18<birch>well, sounds ok to me then
00:18<SamB>well, I suppose if you installed a kernel that won't work on the other system ...
00:18<birch>i'm just making sure that if one of my laptops dies i can grab the data off the drive from another laptop without needed an external enclosure
00:19<j4jackj>outbound the traffic penetrates both nats, but inbound it only makes it thru the outer layer before bouncing.
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00:46<adamm>j4jackj: both NATs? you have more than one? Anyway, outbound is SNAT. Inbound is DNAT. You are changing different address before getting packet back to routing table.
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01:43<prem_>is there a user profile manager in debian to restrict the desktop menu item display for each users
01:43<prem_>something similar to "Profile Manager" where a group of users can be given a particular profile
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01:49<Node8392>i'm looking to get a linux laptop and need some advice: i'm not doing anything graphics intensive but i will be using some cryptography. do i need a 64-bit processor and distro? or will 32-bit suffice?
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01:50<apm1>yes if you are gonna do any kind of number crunching you need 64bit
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02:22<prem_>is there any replacement applications for sabayon and pessuls in debian wheezy
02:22<prem_>i couldnt find similar applications in wheezy repo
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02:28<ronny>any suggestion for resumable writing of a disk image to a partition
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02:30<ronny>i got 850 gb to write and cant leave the hardware running for the full time at once
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02:36<haylo_>ronny: i think dd could handle that, if you are clever with it
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02:37<haylo_>look at the seek= and skip= options. probably rsync has some built in way to handle something like this as well
02:38<mekt>How can the PPP device be caused to be present but down before being configured and negotiated?
02:38<haylo_>or you could just use rsync, which would be smart enough to resume creating the partition, from the file its syncing
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02:43*barballs toodles all :)
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02:46<ronny>haylo_: i did some reading, and ddrescue used in the sane mode is perfect for doing it
02:46<ronny>(it remembers in a logfile where it was)
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03:24<EmleyMoor>I have a disk that appears to have failed... other than reseating it (which is a bit hard to do at several miles' distance) is there anything I can do that might restart it?
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04:36<willemb>what is the deal with /var/lib/apt/lists?
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04:36<willemb>running an aptitude update while there is content there, doesn't produce a summary line
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04:42<peter1138>Oh, is working today. Thought my machine was not setup right or something :S
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04:42<mj>got problem
04:42<mj>after reboot - no soundcard found
04:43<mj>alsamixer -f6 -no soundcard
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04:43<mj>/proc/asound/cards - --- no soundcards ---
04:44<mj>but before reboot everything was ok
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04:45<Calinou>mj: tryr ebooting
04:46<mj>Calinou, still no soundcard
04:46<mj>and hda-intel - no codec found
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04:48<lucas2>Good morning from Amsterdam, The Netherlands
04:48<mj>lucas2, dag )
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04:50<lucas2>Just a quick question: I wish to modify my logrotate settings so that more copies op mail.log will be kept. By default it is one of many logs configured in /etc/logrotate.d/rsyslog. What is the way to go - should I just modify this file?
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04:50<lucas2>Or is it a bad idea to modify default config files and is tehre a way to overrule the default settings?
04:51<mj>anyone got any idea about soundcard?
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04:58<lucas2>BitchX-1.1-final+ by panasync - Linux 3.8.0
04:58<mj>Calinou, but do u know what ALC driver do i need to download?
04:58<mj>i just dont remember
04:58<mj>its for ATI IXP SB4x0 High Definition Audio Controller (rev 01)
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05:02*Calinou shrug
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05:32<mandark>Hi folks, we have a debian box (wheezy) with two terms emulators connected to it, one from debian, one from another debian, the one from debian can write 'é' in UTF-8, the mac one can't. The mac send the right sequence to bash (checked with cat -A then double checked with strace) but bash didn't echo back the é. The mac terminal can display accents as it show up correctly in a cat. So it seems that it's bash that doe
05:32<mandark>s not echo back the accentued character, confirmed via an strace on bash :
05:32<mandark>Any idea ? env's are simple, just LANG=en_US.UTF-8 on both machines
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05:34<mandark>TERM is xterm-256color on the mac size, (I use rxvt-unicode on the Debian box)
05:35<babilen>mandark: What's the problem (sorry, missed context)
05:35<mandark>babilen: The mac use can't write non ASCII / UTF-8 characters as bash does not echoes them back
05:36<mandark>babilen: But when he does it in another program, like cat, cat sucessfully echoes everything back correctly
05:36<mandark>babilen: Also, bash is writing a bell character to make us know that something went wrong, but I don't know what
05:36<babilen>mandark: I assume that mac user is SSH'ing into a Debian box where this is happening?
05:36<mandark>babilen: Yes exacly, sorry for missing context
05:37<babilen>(and that it is perfectly fine for people ssh'ing from, say, another Debian box?
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05:38<mandark>babilen: Yes it works perfecly for users from other Debian boxes (like me, I pasted my strace echoing back the UTF-8 é sucesfully) or windows user using putty
05:38<babilen>mandark: Which version of OSX?
05:38<babilen>(lion by chance?)
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05:39<mandark>babilen: MAC os 10.8.4
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05:40<babilen>mandark: I assume that it is rather an OSX problem than a Debian one. It might be related to settings in OSX' /etc/ssh_config and in particular the SendEnv setting in there. May I take a look at that file please?
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05:40<mandark>babilen: yes ! please hold the line ^-^
05:41<mandark>SendEnv LANG LC_*
05:41<babilen>mandark: Also, do you set the locale variables for the terminal on OSX (did you tick "Set locale environment variables on startup"?)
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05:41<babilen>mandark: Okay, please uncomment that line (so it reads "# SendEnv LANG LC_*") and try again
05:41<mandark>you mean comment the line ?
05:42<babilen>yeah, sure ... heh
05:42<mandark>we're trying commenting the line
05:42<mandark>trying ...
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05:42<mandark>It works, but I don't understand why
05:43<babilen>mandark: yay!! :-D
05:43*babilen pats his crystal ball
05:43<mandark>There's no LANG and on only a LC_CTYPE=UTF8 (seems invalid to me ?)
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05:43<mandark>babilen: GG :-) and thanks a lot :-))) I'm trying to understand now :)
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05:44<babilen>mandark: Well, you obviously have LANG/LC_* settings on OSX that can't be replicated on the Linux side. The "SendEnv" setting controls which elements of the environment are sent (that is replicated on the remote side) from the client to the server.
05:45<mandark>Yeah we got it UTF8 is not valid in the debian side, it want a en_US.UTF-8 instead I think
05:45-!-Renaissance is now known as oye
05:45<mandark>babilen: Thx a lot ! ! ! Have a great day ! :-)
05:45<babilen>mandark: So, say your OSX setting is "LC_ALL="en_GB.utf-8" which is not available on the remote side it will lead to an error ... I would have to see the output of "locale" and "locale -a" on both the OSX and the Debian host
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05:46<mandark>babilen: k, that's right, and changing the LC_CTYPE after the connexion will not change anything as bash already read it as an invalid configuration... i think
05:47<mandark>babilen: Ok, thx a lot :-) Bye !
05:47<babilen>mandark: You are most welcome, may you have a nīcê däÿ too! ;)
05:48<mandark>babilen: Thãǹkß !
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05:55<txomon|fon>hi, my computer just crashed (kernel panic), and I don't know whether if this panic has been reported...
05:55<peter1138>Unless you reported it, your panic has not been reported.
05:56<txomon|fon>so I fill a new report? I don't feel I have enought knowledge to know if it is in the listed reports reportbug shows me
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05:58*txomon|fon will fill the bug report...
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06:00<lucas2>Is it a bad idea to modify default logrotate config files (/etc/logrotate.d/*) and/or is there a way to overrule the default settings without touchng the default files?
06:01<SynrG>they're in /etc ... how can that be bad?
06:01<SynrG>they're there so that you can change them
06:02<SynrG>i routinely change my logcheck files because there are certain recurring messages i don't care about
06:03<SynrG>always ignoring messages desensitizes you to those reports ...
06:03<SynrG>so that when a *real* problem comes along, you may miss it
06:03<SynrG>so it's important to tidy up the reports so they're only reporting to you things that you care about seeing
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06:20<lucas2>SynrG: often it is recommended to not modify the default config files, even if they are in /etc, because that may create conflicts when the package they belong to is updated
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06:21<lucas2>As an alternative they the offer a mechanism to overrule default settings, using a different file for example
06:21<lucas2>rather then to modify them
06:22<Apollo>lucas2: files in /etc/ are conffiles, which means that, if a file is changes by an update, it will prompt for useraction to merge/revert the change
06:22<Apollo>that's normal behaviour
06:23<Apollo>the usage of include statements isnt default
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06:23<lucas2>ok well I know enough. Thanks for the advice :)
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06:32<peter1138>Hmm, can I specify only a small set of packages to upgrade with apt?
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06:49<babilen>peter1138: Why would you want that? And yes, you can just "install" them
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07:09<Guest1048>aptitude search '~i !~M !~pstandard !~pimportant !~prequired' this command suppose to list all manual installed packages that are not part of base system...but it list more than these packages that was manually installed ... any idea?? is this a bug ?? is this my fault?
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07:18<SynrG>Guest1048: it's your fault
07:18<Guest1048>can you help me understand this?
07:19<SynrG>well, the command seems to do what you asked it to do when i execute it
07:19<jule>no, sorry
07:21<Guest1048>my assumption is that MAY apt marks some newly installed packages during upgrade as manually that right?
07:21<SynrG>the key is, what does 'M' mean. the doc says.
07:23<Guest1048>M is packages that installed as dependencies for explicitly reqquested install packages...
07:24<SynrG>i.e. auto
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07:25<SynrG>so if i do this command and say ~M, it shows me a lot of stuff marked "i A"
07:25<SynrG>and if i say !~M it shows me stuff marked "i" (no "A")
07:25<SynrG>where is the problem?
07:25<SynrG>or if you have wrong results, please paste the output in a pastebin
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07:26<Guest1048>the problem is that the list that i take as output has a lot of more packages that i have manually installed....
07:26<SynrG>08:21 < Guest1048> my assumption is that MAY apt marks some newly installed packages during upgrade as manually
07:26<SynrG> that right?
07:26<SynrG>^^ what, exactly, did you mean by that?
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07:26<Guest1048>eg you make a dist upgrade
07:26<SynrG>if i have package A that did not previously depend on B, and B wasn't on my system ...
07:27<SynrG>then i upgrade it and now it depends on B, B is automatically installed.
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07:27<Guest1048>that was my original point of view also
07:27<SynrG>really? you seemed to be saying the opposite.
07:28<Guest1048>it was an assumption in order ti give an explaination
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07:28<SynrG>anyway, the command you gave works fine. so i guess you're really asking "why are more packages marked as manually installed than i remember manually installing?"
07:28<SynrG>beats me. i would have to review your entire upgrade history of your system.
07:29<SynrG>you could comb through the logs ...
07:29<jule>i don't have time
07:29<SynrG>are you two people?
07:29<Guest1048>i also do not understand jule
07:31<SynrG>Guest1048: if you've ever had to specifically apt-get install something to downgrade or so, then it is marked manually installed.
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07:32<Guest1048>no i never did an action like that
07:32<Guest1048>can i send my logs?
07:32<Guest1048>to expain this mystery..
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07:41<jule>can somebody speak german
07:41<babilen>dpkg: de
07:41<dpkg>Deutschsprachige Hilfe bekommt ihr in (auf, oder - German speaking users please go to (on, or
07:43<SynrG>Guest1048: the only one who is able to review your logs is you. you need to look at them and ask yourself "does this match what i remember doing?"
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07:45<SynrG>Guest1048: /var/log/apt/history* contains ",automatic" for everything that is automatic, and that is absent for the ones that aren't (i.e. manual)
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07:46<SynrG>Guest1048: of course, that is only good for as far back as those logs go (including any backup media you have, and for as far back as you can remember, as well)
07:47<Guest1048>the keyword is REMEMBER
07:47<SynrG>yes, and i can't help you with that. sorry
07:48<SynrG>how was the system installed? if it is installed from a list of packages that are not, themselves, dependencies of some other package, i guess all of those packages would not be marked 'auto'
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07:48<SynrG>that could account for some of them
07:49<Guest1048>i see packages in the list that i m not rember to install them explicitly...i have already inspect the logs...and i cannot see any resonable explaination
07:49<Guest1048>the most interesting thing im my list is that i found libs as manually installed
07:49<SynrG>back to the question i just asked. how was the system installed?
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07:50<Guest1048>bussinescard iso
07:50<Guest1048>only the basic system
07:50<Guest1048>after that xorg kde minimal and apps
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07:50<SynrG>i see. so the things that were installed initially would be base things anyway
07:50<SynrG>and how have you been upgrading it? apt? aptitude? synaptic? some combination of these?
07:51<Guest1048>only aptitude pinning
07:51<Guest1048>i use only the official repo also
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07:52<SynrG>well, i think since what's ancient history is now ancient history, and we won't get answers there, the only thing to do is to mark auto all things you want marked as auto (libs, for starters) and then observe it over time.
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07:52<SynrG>if things creep back onto that list, try to find an explanation for a *current* occurrence of the problem.
07:52*TangoCash Picture of my whore ex-wife naked
07:53<SynrG>trying to explain it long after the fact is not going to be a fruitful exercise.
07:53*TangoCash Picture of my whore ex-wife naked
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07:53<Guest1048>to show you somthing that i do not like eg libsemanage-common
07:53<Guest1048>there are some packages 5-10 that does not make sence
07:54<Guest1048>trying aptitude why
07:54<Guest1048>for every package in order to find out what cause the instalation
07:55<Guest1048>this lead to base system packages aptitude
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07:55<Guest1048>and all this makes the ?? bigger and bigger
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07:56<SynrG>as i said, trying to explain it now, long after the problem probably occurred (check dates in /var/log/apt/history*) is not going to be easy
07:56<jule_>I know
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07:57<SynrG>jule_: are you having a conversation with the voices in your head, or what?
07:57<gnugr>Guest1048:the history SynrG mentioned is in /var/log/dpkg.log to view it run "grep -i -w '\(install\|upgrade\)' /var/log/dpkg.log | cut -d' ' -f1,3,4 | uniq | less"
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07:57<SynrG>gnugr: pardon? that's not going to help much. that will only say with respect to dpkg whether it was installed or upgraded, and has nothing to do with the "auto" flag
07:58<SynrG>gnugr: dpkg does not know extended states. that's an apt thing.
07:58<SynrG>see /var/lib/apt/extended_states
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08:00<SynrG>Guest1048: i don't know how aptitude's dependency conflict resolver works, for one thing. it may be that explicitly choosing a solution constitutes "manually installed"
08:00<SynrG>it would be interesting to experiment. but first you would have to set everything back to "known good" states. and then you would need to watch state changes happen over time, noticing what you did at the time "wrong" states resulted.
08:01<SynrG>it would take careful monitoring and patience.
08:01<Guest1048>SynrG thats why i said that maybe the dist upgrade cause these....
08:01<SynrG>possibly. but "the dist upgrade" is a big thing ... we need to narrow it down to a specific action
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08:02<SynrG>otherwise it doesn't explain anything, really :)
08:03<Guest1048>anyway thank for your time and your help :)
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08:04*gnugr not sure how apt-history install works
08:05<SynrG>Guest1048: no problem. it is an interesting one.
08:05<SynrG>if you figure it out, i would certainly like to know, myself
08:06<Guest1048>of course :) one request i cannot find a good reference on apt/aptitude and how they function can you suggest any link
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08:19<jule>what time is it?
08:19<jemadux>how to fix broken packages ?
08:20<jule>I don't know
08:20<jemadux>if you dont know dont ask
08:21<Guest1048>what package is broken jemadux?
08:21<Guest1048>it is not official i think...
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08:22<ixi>smells like ubuntu/mint
08:22<Maulkin>jemadux: What version of Debian are you running?
08:22<ixi>jemadux this is debian support channel. only debian is supported here.
08:23<jemadux>i am using sid
08:23<Guest1048>it is not problem (ubuntu/mint) but it is not good practise
08:23<Guest1048>jedamux try pinning
08:23<Guest1048>in cases like yours pinning can be helpful
08:23<Maulkin>jemadux: Unfortunately, sid is not supported here. Things are often broken
08:23<ixi>jemadux apt-cache policy mate-core -> pastebin
08:23<dpkg>sid is, like, the codename for <unstable>, named after the kid in Toy Story that breaks toys. The great thing about running sid is that, when it breaks you get to keep ALL the pieces!!
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08:24<Maulkin>jemadux: Additionally, mate-core isn't in Debian, so please contact whomever you got that package from
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08:24<jemadux>i contact with the maintener
08:24<ixi>third party package ahoy
08:25<Maulkin>jemadux: Please go to #mate @
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08:48<SynrG>!why not mate
08:48<dpkg>Unfortunately, MATE is neither in Debian, nor likely to be, based on technical objections and lack of anyone doing the work. Therefore, you can't get support for it here. Use one of the other desktop environments: <gnome>, <kde>, <xfce> or <lxde>. Alternatively, for <jessie> there will be <cinnamon>. See also <mate>.
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08:50<SynrG>jemadux: if you like being supported, i cannot recommend too highly that you switch to a supported desktop within debian ... there have been a rash of problems here (sound not working, etc.) that come down to the user using mate. we'd really like to help, but once you replace your entire desktop with one not in debian it puts you in a quite unsupportable position. as i understand it, mate is a very small project and hasn't the resources to ...
08:50<SynrG>... handle huge numbers of support requests.
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09:01<jule>verstehst du mich auch so?
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09:03<babilen>jule: Dies ist leider nicht der deutschsprachige Kanal wobei es sicher einige gibt die Deutsch verstehen. Du kannst entweder Deine Fragen auf Englisch hier stellen oder den Kanal wechseln. Für deutschsprachige Hilfe kannst Du einfach mit "/join" den richtigen Kanal erreichen. Danke.
09:03<daemonkeeper>Ick bin ein Berliner!
09:03<babilen>Ich bin kein Pfannkuchen!
09:03<babilen>Okay ... /me shows himself the way to #debian-offtopic
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09:08<ehsan>از ایران کسی هست ؟
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09:27<danielljun>bom dia
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09:27<ace_N_kelly>nice update for the Knoppix v7.2 :)
09:27<ace_N_kelly>tks :) :)
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09:27<danielljun>alguem já usou o debian 7.1?
09:29<babilen>dpkg: pt
09:29<dpkg>Por favor use #debian-pt para ajuda em portugues ou #debian-br para ajuda em portugues do brasil. ( /join #debian-pt )
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10:10<peter1138>crap, apt-get changelog isn't in squeeze :S
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10:14<magrete>I believe I just found a bufferoverflow in the netcat version which is shipped with debian should I report this?
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10:15<babilen>magrete: Sure
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10:15<magrete>could you do I am a bit to lazy to install and setup reportbug
10:16<bernat>magrete: it's not that difficult, and it should be you since your computer configuration is needed
10:16<babilen>magrete: Really? I mean you just have to run "apt-get install reportbug ; reportbug --configure" and accept the defaults. It is also you who has to write the bug report to make sure that it contains all the information that is needed to enable the maintainer to reproduce the bug.
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10:19<trico>debian doesn't send its hostname to my dns server. why?
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10:21<babilen>trico: Why should it?
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10:21<trico>because dhcp isnt giving out names?
10:23<babilen>trico: DNS requests do not include the name of the host they originate from, nor does IP require that (it is using IP addresses after all)
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10:23<babilen>trico: Are you mayhaps thinking about DHCP ?
10:24<trico>okay, so how do i get `ssh joe@server` to work with out entering the names into the dns server manually?
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10:25<babilen>trico: You can either use the ip address for "server" in there (that is "ssh joe@" or so), add "server" with its IP address to your /etc/hosts file, configure it in ~/.ssh/config or configure your nameserver to actually resolve "server" to its IP address.
10:26<babilen>And I am sure that are a couple of other methods too that I haven't mentioned :)
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10:27<trico>yeah, having the server send its name to the dhcp/dns server so i dont have to memorize meaningless numbers
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10:28<babilen>trico: Who is assigning the IP address of the server?
10:28<babilen>trico: Just make sure that the server gets the same address every single time
10:28<trico>the dhcp server
10:28<trico>i dont care if it gets the same address everytime
10:28<babilen>trico: Then configure it to assign the same address to that server
10:29<babilen>trico: Well, you should care as that allows you to setup a "name <-> ip address" resolution in some way (either via actual DNS or simply by adding it to /etc/hosts or ...)
10:29<babilen>trico: I'd also recommend to discuss your setup in ##networking on -- I am sure they can suggest various sensible ways to configure this.
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10:55<edo>hello... just a quick info - is there a man page for gcc?
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10:56<edo>because i get "man 7 undocumented", and i'm thinking about reinstalling it
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10:56<wheeler>edo: I think you should install gcc-doc for your version of gcc
10:57<sney>the gcc docs are in contrib so they won't show up if you only have main
10:57<enigma_tik>hi everybody
10:57<wheeler>is it a problem to add contrib to repos list?
10:58<edo>i do have contrib in the list
10:58<wheeler>so install gcc-doc
10:58<edo>okay, thank you.
10:58<enigma_tik>if some one know a website where i can find interesting shell script??? :-)
10:58<wheeler>it will install required dependencies
10:59<edo>by the way, is there a difference between using apt-get install and aptitude install
11:00<enigma_tik>don't use the both
11:00<enigma_tik>i think aptitude is more powerfull
11:00<mtn>edo: you can use either or both, no problem
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11:03<SynrG>enigma_tik: not 'more powerful'. just different
11:04<SynrG>"too clever by half", some would argue
11:04<enigma_tik>yes :-)
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11:04<SynrG>and there's no reason to warn people off using both together. that's myth, as mtn has alluded to.
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11:05<SynrG>!apt myths
11:05<dpkg>Myths about APT never seem to die, the principal one being you can't mix using different APT front-ends like apt-get and aptitude. This is false. If you need further convincing, see and . See also <why aptitude> and <why not aptitude> for real reasons to choose one over the other.
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11:17<linuxfrag>hello, im running debian wheezy with backports. backports has updated packages for iceweasel/icedove which i updated to. the icedove extension enigmail however doesnt. so i can obtain the newest enigmail from its website but im not sure how to install the extensions systemwide for all users. installing for myself works fine. anyone know how to install the extension for everyone?
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11:19<P4C0>hello, does anyone knows if there's a problem with it is extreme slow for me... is there maybe a mirror somewhere?
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11:27<rickbol>why is dhclient constantly submitting "DHCPREQUEST on eth0 to" ? eth0 is my wlan\cable modem.
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13:33<retrospectacus>!es antuan
13:33<dpkg>antuan: Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat
13:33<bugtraq>englich plz
13:34<retrospectacus>bugtraq: welcome to #debian! please ask your Debian question.
13:34<retrospectacus>antuan: tecleado /join #debian-es en la linea de chat
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14:27<toli>I have a ultra small pc with atom 270, I use it as NAS and router wifi now, I throttled the CPU to 800mhz, but can I do it about 400mhz ? it is a fanless and I want it to be cooled as I don't need high CPU. Thanks
14:28<toli>my cpufreq-info says that the stops are 800, 1.07 1.33 and 1.6
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14:28<toli>probably 800mhz is the minimum
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14:38<prezes>hey, does anyone know how to remove trash iconf from gnome desktop in debian6? :)
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14:40<ompaul>prezes: did you right click on it ... and see what options you have
14:40<prezes>yup, no options there
14:41<TobiX>prezes: Press "Delete" while it is highlighted?
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14:42<prezes>doesnt work too, but doing this one:
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14:43<babilen>yay, help yourself!
14:43<prezes>yup, and it worked liek a charm and removed the user folder and computer as well, so happy :)
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15:08<_tgs3>how secure is apt-offline ( ) are all packages also pgp verified on the offline computer when you give it the downloaded .zip file over usb stick?
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15:14<P4C0>Hello, I'm trying to upgrade from etch to lenny and I'm getting: "The following signatures were invalid: KEYEXPIRED 1356982504" when doing aptitude update, I also did aptitude install debian-archive-keyring (successfully)
15:14<Marcosfranca>olá galera
15:15<Marcosfranca>tudo bem
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15:17<weasel>from oldoldoldstable to oldoldstable..
15:17<sney>well you wouldn't want to support etch->wheezy
15:17<trico>hopefully eventually to stable... it would be easier to clean install stable, imo
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15:19<P4C0>weasel: yes
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15:20<P4C0>well I just removed the security updates in my source.list, seems to be ok...
15:20*P4C0 continues...
15:21<P4C0>funny that etch/updates works but lenny/updates doesn't :p
15:22<weasel>at one point we added expiry info to stuff.
15:22<weasel>I wonder if one can disable that without disable sig checking
15:22<P4C0>weasel: you mean that by commenting out lenny/updates I'm missing it?
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15:23<P4C0>I'm trying to get to squeeze, do you think that may be a problem?
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15:23<P4C0>should I disable sig checking and try again?
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15:39<mooglebam>Is console-setup the "right way" to customize fonts and keymaps for tty?
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15:42<mooglebam>Should I do that per-user, or is editing /etc/default/console-setup sane?
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15:45<mooglebam>Also: is this the same debian channel as the chennal on freenode? Or is it different?
15:46<daemonkeeper>Same but different.
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15:49<Apollo>daemonkeeper: got a second
15:49<Apollo>getting PMed by TheKingz
15:49<Apollo>he's banned or silenced
15:49*daemonkeeper ain't an op
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15:58<AlexanderD>hello, can someone be so kind to help? i have added an software-repository with add-apt-repository ppa:xxx, now i wane clean this up and dono how to remove ppa's?
15:58<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu on instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
15:58<dpkg>[ppa] Personal Package Archive (see or <launchpad>). PPAs are either: (a) an easy way to grab packages based on nightly-builds/VCS snapshots or (b) an easy way for any idiot to publish a package of extremely poor quality (remember, you will run the maintainer scripts as root during install!). Choose your repos wisely. No equivalent exists for Debian yet. Ask me about <why not use a ppa>.
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15:59<stderr>Mainly (b)... :-)
15:59<AlexanderD>thank you very much indeed
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16:27<crane>why is this interface config not working?
16:27<crane>do i have to define lo:0, lo:1 etc...=
16:27<crane>when i just type on the shell ip addr add[...] it works fine
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16:30<SynrG>uh? that's a strange use of loopback
16:30<crane>SynrG, i know ^^
16:31<crane>but do you see any error or typos?
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16:31<SynrG>well, i don't know if 'up' ever happens, or if the kernel sets it up
16:31<SynrG>so if 'up' never happens, none of your rules are excecuted.
16:32<sney>it looks like the kind of loopback interfaces people use on cisco routers.
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16:37<crane>its not a cisco its a debian
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16:38<weasel>on linuxes people don't tend to add random addresses to their lo interface
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16:41<crane>but that doesnt solves my problem
16:41<crane>why can i add them by running manually the command but not by config file?
16:42<sney>maybe interfaces only wants one up/down command per iface?
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16:42<retrospectacus>I find it hard to believe that adding /24s to lo can solve any problem
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16:43<sney>yeah even the loopbacks I use on routers to test routing stuff is /32s
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16:43<sney>crane, put your up commands in one script, put your down commands in another script, and try calling the scripts from interfaces instead
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16:44<crane>just as a hint
16:45<sney>well, you can try that too!
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16:46<crane>thats what i tried.. :/
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16:48<sney>the other thing is that you're adding network ids, not host addresses, and ifupdown may have some logic that thinks that's crazy (it is!)
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16:53<retrospectacus>dalila: salut, pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debian-fr
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17:03<DukeNuke>i can't find any talk list about debconf13, it will be available in the next weeks or there isn't any talk?
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17:42<Pichorra>can somebody help me with keyboard layout?
17:43<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
17:43<dpkg>Run "dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration" to change both your default console and X keymap; the setxkbmap utility can be used to adjust keymap settings during X operation. For setting up X keymaps, see xkeycaps, xev and ask me about <multimedia keys>.
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17:47<Pichorra>My Xchat frozen, sorry
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17:48<Pichorra>Well, I got an USA keyboard, but I need to write in Portuguese (since i'm Brazilian)
17:48<Pichorra>but I can't see a special layout that I use in Windows to do it
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17:51<Pichorra>the command:
17:51<Pichorra># setxkbmap -model pc104 -layout us_intl -variant basic
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17:51<Pichorra>fix my problem, but I need to put it in Terminal every time I login
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17:54<musca>retrospectacus: his xchat was frozen, i'll repeat
17:54<dpkg>Run "dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration" to change both your default console and X keymap; the setxkbmap utility can be used to adjust keymap settings during X operation. For setting up X keymaps, see xkeycaps, xev and ask me about <multimedia keys>.
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17:54<Pichorra>!multimedia keys
17:54<dpkg>Multimedia keys are the special keyboard keys for doing such things as changing the volume or launching your web browser. Check to see if these keys generate a scan code using xev and set the keyboard layout correctly or assign them to a shortcut with xmodmap, kcontrolcenter, gnome-control-panel etc. See also <keytouch>, <pbbuttons>, <tpb>. See
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17:54<retrospectacus>Pichorra: what version of Debian and what Desktop Environment are you using?
17:55<Pichorra>Debian 7 AMD64
17:55<retrospectacus>ok I don't know about gnome but in xfce there is a keyboard control panel where the keymap is set
17:55<Pichorra>yes, in gnome too
17:56<Pichorra>but I can't find my layout there
17:56<P4C0>aptitude upgrade and dist-upgrade should update the kernel (when going from etch to lenny), right??
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17:57<retrospectacus>Pichorra: "dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration" as root should allow you to add system layouts
17:58<sney>P4C0, it should but might not depending on metapackages
17:58<musca>P4C0: i don't think so, there is a new kernel pakage you have to install
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17:59<retrospectacus>dpkg: tell P4C0 about
17:59<retrospectacus>dpkg: tell P4C0 about
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17:59<P4C0>thanks retrospectacus, I'm using it already (of course)
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18:00<P4C0>thanks musca, I just noticed that my kernel version is the same and the upgrade was complete, so I should search for kernel and install it then
18:01<retrospectacus>P4C0: it'll be the metapackage then. Switch to a broader one, e.g. remove linux-image-2.6.18-amd64 and install linux-image-amd64
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18:01<P4C0>retrospectacus: thanks
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18:07<P4C0>hmm btw, if I have debian etch, 32 bits, is it possible to upgrade to lenny 64??
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18:09<P4C0>after lenny, I plan to continue to squeeze, should I upgrade kernel now, or maybe at the end?
18:09<retrospectacus>IMO just keep a backup and install wheezy 64bit, save a lot of time
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18:10<P4C0>retrospectacus: I don't have physical access to the server
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18:11<P4C0>squeeze is already old supported?
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18:12<retrospectacus>bleh. Well no, you should upgrade fully for each release. The robot may have special instructions too; /msg dpkg lenny->squeeze
18:13<P4C0>retrospectacus: that includes kernel?
18:13<daemonkeeper>P4C0: You can stop with Squeeze, but you should not.
18:13<daemonkeeper>Better go to Wheezy
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18:14<P4C0>daemonkeeper: thanks
18:14<retrospectacus>P4C0: yes, like the robot says
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18:15<P4C0>retrospectacus: did exactly what the robot said (for etch to lenny)
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18:15<P4C0>the problem is that my kernel image doesn't seem to be the oficial
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18:16<P4C0>so I guess probably it was rebuild due to hardware issues or something... No sure if whatever was needed there is fixed on lenny, so probably if I can hold the kernel upgrade until wheezy that may be better, but not sure
18:17<retrospectacus>well you will see that the lenny->sqeeze instructions have you install the kernel first
18:17<daemonkeeper>P4C0: You can *not* use the same kernel for the +1 upgrade.
18:17<daemonkeeper>This *will* break at runtime
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18:18<daemonkeeper>You *can* use the Lenny kernel to boot Squeeze, but it won't run with Wheezy for example.
18:18<P4C0>thanks, but I currently have a kernel from etch (I guess) if I do uname -r i get: 2.6.18mikerf2007
18:19<daemonkeeper>This is not about negotiate with us. You can keep it if you feel like, but it's not supported and it will break :)
18:19<P4C0>I already upgrade to lenny, so I'm in: should I upgrade kernel to what is on lenny repositories, or continue with instructions from lenny->wheezy
18:19<daemonkeeper>Reboot first.
18:20<P4C0>daemonkeeper: I'm very scare of that :p
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18:20<retrospectacus>those options are the same (except it's lenny->sqeeze)
18:20<daemonkeeper>Another thing you cannot avoid.
18:20<daemonkeeper>You need to boot into the newer kernel first.
18:21<retrospectacus>no doubt.
18:21<P4C0>daemonkeeper: I think you are ahead, I just did etch->lenny (no reboots, kernel was not modified)
18:22<daemonkeeper>Doesn't matter. You need to reboot onto the new kernel for _each_ upgrade.
18:22<P4C0>daemonkeeper: so I should drop my current kernel and install lenny's?
18:23<P4C0>daemonkeeper: then reboot, and then continue with lenny->wheezy?
18:23<daemonkeeper>You don't need to drop it, but you definitively need to reboot into the Lenny kernel before moving onwards, yes.
18:23<daemonkeeper>And yes, that's risky just as any dist-upgrade on a remote machine without out of band access.
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18:24<P4C0>daemonkeeper: thank you :) I'll try that
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18:25<daemonkeeper>If you are pedantic, you could install the pristine Etch kernel and compare your kernel configs.
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18:26<daemonkeeper>To find out why you use a custom kernel in the first place.
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18:27<P4C0>daemonkeeper: that's a good idea, thanks!
18:28<P4C0>hmm but I have: linux-image-2.6.26-2-686-bigmem linux-image-2.6-686-bigmem and linux-image-686-bigmem is linux-image-686-bigmem the one I should install?
18:28<daemonkeeper>Doesn't matter much
18:28<daemonkeeper>The difference is just whether to enable PAE
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18:30<P4C0>but the meta package is the one without version right?
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18:31<P4C0>it has 7 gb of memory, PAE then?
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18:31<daemonkeeper>i386 is limited to 32 bit of memory otherwise which is 3.x GiB of RAM
18:32<daemonkeeper>But you don't plan to boot that one anyway I guess.
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18:33<P4C0>daemonkeeper: don't I have to reboot?
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18:33<daemonkeeper>If all you want to know is the config? No.
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18:34<P4C0>daemonkeeper: no, I'm moving forward with the upgrade
18:34<daemonkeeper>You need to reboot then.
18:36<P4C0>ok, thanks a lot daemonkeeper and rest, brb
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18:36<daemonkeeper>Who takes bets whether the system comes up again?
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18:43<retrospectacus>daemonkeeper: hard to say; never got a kernel diff
18:43<retrospectacus>aldrin: hola. Este canal es Ingles
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18:44<retrospectacus>aldrin: hello! Please ask your Debian question
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18:52<kix>hi aldrin
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18:56<haylo_>is there no more youtube-dl ? unless i am having a bad series of spelling errors. looks like it was removed
18:57<retrospectacus>it's in sid/jessie; should be a wheezy backport (soon?)
18:57<haylo_>hmm must be a bad day for me and apt-cache search , thanks retrospectacus
18:58<retrospectacus>you usually need a very new version since it's tailored to YT site, but it's just a py script, get the sid one from p.d.o should install fine :)
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19:23<Chav>Hi. I'm having a lot of difficulty with vi. It's not responding to keyboard input in a manner I'm accustomed to. Could someone help me modify/create a suitable config file to make it work the way I choose?
19:24<retrospectacus>perhaps you have "old vi" and should install vim
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19:24<SamB>are you accustomed to vi?
19:24<Chav>I'm accustomed to the vim that comes with Macs.
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19:25<retrospectacus>Chav: apt-get install vim
19:26<Chav>That requires a 24.8MB install. Can't I just configure vi appropriately? Or is that simply not possible?
19:26<SamB>there might be a lighter-weight version ...
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19:29<Chav>Ok, in the process of working through this I'm finding some very strange behaviour with apt-show-versions.
19:30<Chav>if I enter, "apt-show-versions v" and then hit tab, it autocompletes to, "apt-show-versions v-bash: _comp_dpkg_installed_packages: command not found". This has happened before.
19:31<Chav>I'd really like to fix it. Is it a known bug? Is it even a bug?
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19:32<chealer>Chav: it autocompletes to what? we don't see newlines
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19:33<Chav>chealer: the full line after autocomplete is, "apt-show-versions v-bash: _comp_dpkg_installed_packages: command not found"
19:33<retrospectacus>bash-completion thinks apt-show-versions should use "_comp_dpkg_installed_packages" to complete its argument. There is no such function.
19:34<retrospectacus>that said, mine does not do that, it tries to complete with filenames in $PWD
19:34<Chav>Ok. Thanks. Is this something I can rectify?
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19:36<chealer>Chav: ah. which Debian suite do you use?
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19:36<Chav>chealer: Suite? You mean which release? Wheezy.
19:36<retrospectacus>Chav: well, maybe. it'd be something in /etc/bash_completion.d/ which is a confusing place
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19:37<chealer>Chav: yes. the bug is fixed in unstable. will be fixed in Debian 8:
19:37<Chav>retrospectacus: am I better reporting this as a bug and waiting for a fix?
19:37<Chav>chealer: aha, cool.
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19:39<retrospectacus>you should be able to fix it with the patch on that bug
19:39<Chav>retrospectacus: ok. I wouldn't know how to do that.
19:40<retrospectacus>click the link apt-show-versions.680663.patch
19:40<retrospectacus>then as root edit /etc/bash_completion.d/apt-show-versions.bash_completion
19:40<retrospectacus>change the lines around 30 and 47 with COMPREPLY according to the "-" and "+" lines in the patch
19:42<Chav>That sounds easy enough. I have to fix my vi problem first. And I've come across another oddity in that regard,
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19:44<Chav>"man vi" brings up a man page for, "vim - Vi IMproved, a programmers text editor". Attempting to launch "vim", though, returns a "command not found" error. And "apt-get remove vi" gives, "unable to locate package vi".
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19:45<retrospectacus>what says "ls -l /etc/alternatives/vi"
19:46<Arrowmaster>probably only has vim-tiny
19:46<Chav>Arrowmaster: yes, you're right.
19:46<Arrowmaster>install a full version of vim then
19:47<Chav>So full Vim will have different configuration options? Can't I just configure vim.tiny?
19:47<Arrowmaster>vim-tiny is a very stripped down version of vim without a lot of features
19:47<Chav>Including less support for different keymaps, keystrokes etc. I'm guessing...
19:48<retrospectacus>it's better than vi. At least the arrow keys works as expected
19:48<Arrowmaster>i dont know all the details
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19:49<Chav>retrospectacus: yes, the arrow keys are one of the problems.
19:49<Chav>Guess I'll go full Vim then. Thanks.
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19:50<retrospectacus>the arrows WFM on vim.tiny
19:51<Chav>wfm=work for me?
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19:52<Chav>setting nocompatible in vim.tiny helped but only a little. Anyway, full vim seems to fit my bill, so I think I'm cushty (sp?) now. Thanks guys.
19:54<retrospectacus>well, I'm not sure what you're looking for exactly but best of luck !
19:55<Chav>?elif eht ni tniop thgir eht gnidnif ni uoy dia ot era senil eht fo tser eht ?thgir ,detide eb ot era - ro + a yb dedecerp senil eht ylno ,elif ffid eht nI .gnihctap :er q kciuq a tsuJfhjdwtb
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19:58<Chav>Sorry, I screwed up my IRC client somehow. No clue.
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19:59<retrospectacus>you got a whole sentence about patching put in reverse order. Impressive...
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20:01<Chav>retrospectacus: I'm asking the Textual guys about that now...
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20:02<retrospectacus>and the answer is yes. The - line is to be removed; the + line to be added. the surrounding lines are for context (and line numbers above
20:02<Chav>Thanks, and respect to you for reading that backwards :)
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20:03<retrospectacus>pff no I had my robot reverse it for me
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20:04<Chav>hahaha fair enough
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20:15<retrospectacus>Chav: btw the patch file can be programmatically applied with the "patch" program but I find it very cumbersome and easier to do it yourself for such a small edit. Just a FYI
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20:16<retrospectacus>(and the patch is generated by the "diff" command)
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20:18<Chav>yeah, I'll do it by hand. only two lines. What could go wrong?
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20:19<retrospectacus>not much... you'll have to start a new bash to try your changes though
20:19<retrospectacus>actually it could go quite badly now that i think of it. Keep the editor open while you test ;)
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20:23<Chav>Ok, I've edited that file and created a new, additional SSH instance. The error remains. Is there something else I have to do?
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20:28<retrospectacus>Chav: no. if you saved the file it should work now. (it does for me)
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20:29<Chav>Odd. I'm assuming the line indentation is for readibility?
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20:30<retrospectacus>you should just have added "_xfunc dpkg " to the two lines
20:30<retrospectacus>before _comp_dpkg_installed_packages
20:30<retrospectacus>also the file is /etc/bash_completion.d/apt-show-versions
20:31<Chav>retrospectacus: ah, I went the whole hog and deleted the whole line before copy/pasting the new line into the vacant line. I'll revert to the copy I made and just make the manual additions.
20:31<retrospectacus>I think I said it was called /etc/bash_completion.d/apt-show-versions.bash_completion
20:32<Chav>I don't actually have that, I have just /etc/bash_completion.d/apt-show-versions
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20:34<Chav>Still not working. To test I create a new SSH instance, and attempt to autocomplete apt-show-versions from there. Is that the right way to test it?
20:35<retrospectacus>yes... try running "bash" and then try again
20:35<Chav>from the new SSH instance?
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20:36<Chav>That did it. Thanks.
20:36<retrospectacus>cool. You're welcome
20:37<Chav>Now, I can finally get on with the thing I was initially trying to do. I wonder what that was?
20:38<retrospectacus>I'm off home, good luck!
20:38<Chav>THanks again :)
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22:19<Guest1131>I'm using Linux Lite w xfce.
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22:19<Guest1131>How can I use a usb broadband mobile?
22:20<Guest1131>wicd doesn't support bradband mobile
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22:21<alonglost>Hi. can you guys help me configure my Debian Wheezy server? I'm going away in a month and I want to stream all my files and media from home.
22:22<alonglost>Wheezy is already installed with my user account and I checked the corresponding components. I don't know what next step to take for my server to be fully functional.
22:27<abrotman>Linux Lite?
22:27*dvs prefers all the calories
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22:29<alonglost>i would guess that it is not a lite version
22:29<alonglost>Installed the entire debian amd64 system from three DVDs
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23:31<Monery>greetings all, I have a question I can't seem to find an answer for. I need to know of Debian 7.1 requires a PAE CPU in order to function
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23:37<incorrecto>Усем здрасти
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23:40<gsimmons>Monery: No, the -486 kernel images support processors without PAE.
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23:41<Monery>awesome, thx gsimmons... now I got an alternative to Debian Editon Mint
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---Logclosed Wed Jun 26 00:00:03 2013