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#debian IRC Logs for 2013-08-12

---Logopened Mon Aug 12 00:00:56 2013
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02:18<paco>I'm trying to use vdpau with nouveau drivers in a NVA8 chip. I installed the required firmware but there's no, although I installed vdpau packages. What's wrong here? I already read a bug reporting this, but I couldn't find a solution. Where's
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02:23<Supaplex>paco: maybe apt-file knows
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02:28<paco>strange... it isn't packed, but it's been a part of nouveau drivers since a long time
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03:26<Supaplex>is there a command line equivalent of resize2fs for vfat?
03:27<Supaplex>uh nm. this usb stick will probably puke if I resize the bootable partition.
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03:32<bfmt048>my update strucks at init script for samba not found (ubuntu 11 >> ubuntu 12.04)
03:32<gsimmons>Supaplex: If you change your mind, fatresize.
03:32<jm_>Supaplex: gparted can resize FAT partitions
03:32<bfmt048>unpacking libs.bin
03:33<jm_>!ubuntuirc bfmt048
03:33<dpkg>bfmt048: This is not the Ubuntu help channel. Please do /server and then /join #ubuntu. If you are using XChat, you can right-click the following link and choose connect. irc://
03:33<abrotman>bfmt048: you probably want to ask #ubuntu on
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05:02<debian-newbie>Hello all
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05:09<cbaines>Hello debian-newbie :)
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05:22<prem_>how can i set password expiry as 60 days for all non-sudo users
05:22<prem_>i want the sudo users to be never get expired
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05:30<debian_newbie>Hello all
05:31<debian_newbie>What would be the best way to get clean Debian discs? Think I have a problem with a compromitation of my internal network and so I can't trust my systems.
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05:32<ksk>debian_newbie: you will have to setup everything from scratch, everything else will not guarantee you are clean if youre machine was compromised once
05:32<sid418>mouse not working after upgraded to ubuntu 11 to 12.04
05:32<ksk>!tell sid418 about ubuntu
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05:32<debian_newbie>I know
05:33<sid418>ubuntu 12.04
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05:33<ksk>have you tried plugging it off and on again? usb-hid should not brake after a dist-upgrade ussualy - not even in ubuntu :D
05:33<debian_newbie>But I actually have no Debian discs which I can trust and I don't know how I could get them now.
05:33<ksk>debian_newbie: get a clean install-image from
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05:34<ksk>i see no way around that
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05:34<debian_newbie>How should I do when there is no system I can't really trust?
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05:35<ksk>just not. you need a clean system to do that
05:35<debian_newbie>Thought about buying new hardware, buy a disc set and try to verify this.
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05:35<ksk>you have no friend or your mothers computer thats clean you can use to burn an install-cd? :)
05:36<Stummi>debian_newbie, check the checksum of your disk
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05:36<Stummi>and check the signature for this checksum
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05:36<ksk>if his system is compromised he cannot trust its checksum-tools
05:37<Stummi>yeah, right
05:37<Stummi>indeed he needs a trusted "starting point"
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05:38<debian_newbie>Thats the problem. So I only see the way to get new hardware, a clean media (preburned) and try to verify this media.
05:38<peter1138>just burn it all
05:38<peter1138>how can you trust
05:38<_spOOn_>or buy a brand new usb, and go to an internet cafe?
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05:38<Stummi>I wouldn't consider any "internet cafe" trusted
05:39<peter1138>Get new hardware... hardware will probably include Windows. Is that trusted? :D
05:39<debian_newbie>Yep, internet cafes you can't trust.
05:40<_spOOn_>neither would i, but at least then you'd know you cant trust the machine your on, and take to appropriate actions (as others mentioned - checksuming etc)
05:40<Stummi>debian_newbie, do you have frieds you can trust?
05:40<Stummi>(or an nearby hackerspace will also do I think)
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05:41<debian_newbie>Due to the fact that all friends use Windows systems I can't do so.
05:42<Stummi>buy an debian live cd in an only shop?
05:42<debian_newbie>I thought about that.
05:42<peter1138>so... no existing media at all?
05:42<peter1138>how was it installed? heh
05:42<debian_newbie>But is there a way to verify a preburned Debian disc? So also via the checksums etc.
05:42<Stummi>(to feed your paranoia: There could be a MITM between you and the online shop and send you a compromised live cd in the name of the shop)
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05:43<Calinou>le paranoid
05:44<Stummi>however, if you are in full paranoia mode, you just should turn off all your electronic devices
05:45<Stummi>since there is nothing you can trust if you don't have a trusted base to build up the "trust path" to your other devices
05:46<debian_newbie>I know.
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06:02<f8l>debian_newbie: There are various checksums available on Debian mirrors.
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06:02<Stummi>f8l, but he can't trust them if he uses an compromized machine to obtain them ;)
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06:04<f8l>Stummi: Did he get his CD from the same source he could get the sums from?
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06:05<Stummi>he doesn't have an cd yet
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06:15<debian_newbie>Think the only thing I have is an original Windows 7 media somewhere :D
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06:15<f8l>debian_newbie: And you're going to trust that? :-D
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06:17<debian_newbie>No, because of that I won't use it.
06:17<f8l>debian_newbie: Do as you please, just make sure you use jigdo to download the CD. It'll check the sum of a disk for you.
06:17<themill>the hashes are signed
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06:19<f8l>themill: What if his signature verification software is replaced with a specifically crafted malware? :-D
06:19<themill>then he can take of his tinfoil hat
06:19<debian_newbie>So the problem is that I can't trust checksums and also not signatures on a compromised system. They can always be modified.
06:20<themill>that's your problem, not ours
06:20<Supaplex>blame the nsa
06:20<f8l>debian_newbie: The basic question in security is: what is the probability of this happening?
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06:22<f8l>debian_newbie: And if I know how signatures work, if something is modified, you'll now about that.
06:22<debian_newbie>Yes, I think the probability isn't high.
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06:23<f8l>debian_newbie: IMO, it's closer to 0 than to 1e-9.
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06:25<f8l>debian_newbie: As long as one of us is not a cracker lurking here just to maliciously sign the checksums with his key and break into all Debian mirrors to replace them.
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06:26<debian_newbie>So the question isn't is the Debian Mirror trusted (I think it is) the question is how to get a copy which is unmodified of the files from the Debian mirror and burn it secure to setup a system on new hardware.
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06:29<Jo2006>who has infon of "Hand of Thief"?
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06:30<f8l>debian_newbie: Download, burn and verify on different machines. That will decrease the chance of mangling to 1e-99. ;-P
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06:30<debian_newbie>So I just could do this actually with the original Windows 7 disc.
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06:31<lupine>or, you know, make use of the checksums
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06:37<devil>Jo2006: what would you like to know?
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06:37<debian_newbie>Connection lost......
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06:38<debian_newbie>So the thing I could do is just use one of the PCs, install Windows from the original disc, download and burn Debian, check this media, shred the hard disk and install the system.
06:39<devil>Jo2006: got to run, back in half an hour
06:39<debian_newbie>The question is: How high is the risk that the hardware is "infected" (compromised EFI etc.)
06:39<massi>debian_newbie: how check the media on Windows system?
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06:42<debian_newbie>This will be a problem. Think that the image checksum etc. can be checked with seperate tools.
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06:50<f8l>debian_newbie: More tools, more vulnerabilities. Maybe you should use a microscope? ;-P
06:52<Jo2006>is debian form trojaner "Hand of Thief" affected?
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06:55<massi>otak: Windown don't have a python interpreter i think.. :-D
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06:57<f8l>massi: Not by default.
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06:57<massi>f8l: so it isn't trust... :D
06:58<ksk>why the ... does linux get "less secure" if theres a malware in the wild wich requires the user to install it? i just dont get it.. :)
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07:02<f8l>ksk: It adds drama to the article. ;-P
07:03<Zaba>well, the line between the system's and the user's responsibility is blurry at times
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07:03<Stummi>linux is less secure because the user could type "rm -rf /"
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07:04<bluewater>malware now has a sales agent? "In fact, in a conversation with the malware’s sales agent, he himself suggested using email and social engineering as the infection vector."
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07:05<Zaba>Stummi, well, I'd say if an adversary is able to convince an unsuspecting user to do that easily enough, the platform could be at fault
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07:06<Stummi>Zaba, how may ubuntu users are out there who types "how to do $foobar with ubuntu" on google and just copying the snippets they found to their terminal ;)
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07:07<Zaba>Stummi, probably too many, and it's indeed too easy to screw up while doing that - which I think is something ubuntu should try to educate its users about, in some way or another.
07:08<Zaba>as it happens, that's not easy at all, because most seemingly obvious solutions, such as big fat warnings, tend to be ineffective due to human nature
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07:09<Zaba>it's really hard to walk the thin line between letting people who know what they're doing do their thing, but not letting less competent people screw up or even compromise their systems
07:09<Stummi>I like the aptitude way. The user has to type "Yes, I am aware this is a very bad idea" when he wants to do something dangerous ;)
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07:37<devil>Jo2006: any linux is
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07:37<devil>Jo2006: but if you get hit by this, it is most definitely your own fault
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07:48<lewisr>I need to upgrade my NVIDIA blob drivers to the latest version. Both drivers in testing and unstable do not support OpenGL 4.3. What is the best way to progress?
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07:49<lewisr>I'm running Debian Wheexy 7.1 - x86, with a GTX 560ti.
07:49<p312z>Would you guys recommend installing Debian in a laptop?
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07:51<Supaplex>p312z: formatted all my laptops on day one with debian. wfm.
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07:56<p312z>Supaplex: Thanks. I've been tinkering with Linux for years but never Debian. I want a stable system whilst getting "not-the-newest-but-not-the-oldest" packages. Does sid or jessie crash too much? Does that even happen?
07:56<ksk>p312z: it does, and you should not use testing or unstable for production
07:57<jm_>p312z: in general using testing is largely OK, but perhaps it's best to start with stable + backports
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07:59<p312z>Thank you guys. I'm going to download the stable ISO image right away.
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08:17<GrubInitram>hello, my boot is broken. I installed a new kernel last night with aptitude, but I run torsocks with it. It was late and I cancelled the thing (WRONG!). Before shutting down the computer with 'shutdown now' (and then pressing the power button), I did 'dpkg --configure -a' '/usr/bin/aptitude install linux-image-<etc>' and had to come back from bed, because the laptop was not off. I pushed the power button, and went to sleep. This morning, grub is telli
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08:17<GrubInitram>Should I ask this elsewhere?
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08:18<jm_>your message was cut off at "This morning, grub is telli"
08:18<GrubInitram>his morning, grub is telling me that it can find my root partition which is encrypted with dm-crypt (cryptsetup). For what I have read, this might have to do with initrd.img not loading the dm-crypt modules, but it seems to me that the UUID may not be right in my grub.cfg. So... can someone help me? Should I give more info? Thanks!
08:19<GrubInitram>it can't find
08:19<GrubInitram>Oh, I already tried chroot and update-initramfs -k -u all
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08:20<jm_>it can't be initrd issue if grub produces an error
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08:20<GrubInitram>well, it sends me to busybox
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08:21<GrubInitram>According to a web page "How to solve boot problems with Ubuntu after kernel upgrade"
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08:22<GrubInitram>it may (looking for link; I saved it to disk)
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08:22<jm_>wait, are you using ubuntu?
08:22<GrubInitram>I can also use cryptsetup luksOpen /dev/sda5
08:22<GrubInitram>I use Trisquel. Does that matter?
08:23<dpkg>Trisquel is a Spanish distribution initially based on Debian, now Ubuntu. It is not supported in #debian. #trisquel on See also <based on Debian>.
08:23<jm_>try asking there
08:23<jm_>i am not familiar with encrypted anything setups
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08:23<GrubInitram>Ok, thanks
08:24<GrubInitram>Is it wise to wait for someone else to answer the question here as well?
08:24<GrubInitram>Trisquel is not really popular, you know...
08:25<GrubInitram>It is not supported in #debian.
08:26<jm_>yeah better ask there
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08:27<jm_>maybe it's not grub reporting the error then
08:28<GrubInitram>No, I don't think it's grub either. I just think that a) it may not be loading dm-crypt or b) my UUID is wrong
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08:29<jm_>isn't that supposed to be in crypttab or somesuch?
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08:30<jm_>you should be able to list loaded modules in busybox shell
08:31<GrubInitram>yes, it is not loaded when I do the ls /proc (or something)
08:31<jm_>cat /proc/modules
08:31<GrubInitram>it does not show up there
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08:32<jm_>check if your initrd image includes all the needed modules
08:32<GrubInitram>YES! how do I do that?
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08:34<jm_>i don't know, for debian one can use zcat file | cpio -t
08:34<GrubInitram>Let me try
08:35<GrubInitram>Thanks, jm_
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08:39<GrubInitram>I dit a zcat /mnt/initrd.img-3.5.0-36-generic | cpio -t | grep crypt
08:39<GrubInitram>and it shows several lib/modules/3.5.0-36-generic/kernel (including crypto)
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08:40<jm_>sorry need to go now
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08:42<GrubInitram>See youu
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09:29<hp>Hello there
09:31<hp>guys i want install conky manager on debian wheezy
09:31<hp>please help me
09:32<kardan>currently I am searching for solutions on "s3c2410_udc: debugfs dir creation failed -19" on gta02 after the root disk filled up during upgrade
09:34<hp>where is everyone
09:34<mshuler>#debconf :)
09:34<hp>i want install conky manager on debian wheezy
09:35<devil>hp: apt-get install conky?
09:36<hp>thanks devil
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09:36<hp>this command it's working
09:36<devil>it usualy does
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09:38<zathras>hp, apt-get install conky-all
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09:38<zathras>contrib must be part of sources.list
09:39<devil>what does conky-all do?
09:39<Stummi>aptitude show conky-all
09:39<devil>I am lazy ;)
09:39<zathras>apt-get install non-lazy
09:39<hp>thanks guys i install conky now
09:39<Stummi>devil, so, use ubuntu
09:40<Stummi>devil, oh, wait, sorry
09:40<devil>Stummi: that is a bad pun :P
09:40<zathras>ubuntu in mint condition? :P
09:40<Stummi>mixed up you with hp *g*
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09:42<hp>i get yesterday here
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09:49<xubuntu>hi all
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10:18<peter1138>hmm, chances of switching from bonding to bonding & vlan remotely... on a live system with no physical access?
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10:24<lupine>peter1138, doable, as long as you're careful
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10:32<pmart>are debian channels at publicly logged?
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10:33<mgv>pmart: yes
10:33<mgv>dpkg: tell pmart about irclog
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10:35<micronux>anyone try install the gnome from the basic system?
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10:37<nadir>micronux: you mean a minimal gnome?
10:38<nadir>give me a sec
10:38<nadir>micronux: look at this, but don't rely on it:
10:39<nadir>though i think all you need is the first answer
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10:40<pmart>mgv: are debian-* also logged somewhere?
10:40<mgv>pmart: I don't know that
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10:45<micronux>nadir: aha..actually I fell confuse,because I don't konw what should I install and I use this command:aptitude install -R,so I got the minimal install,but it look like not well than default desktop environment
10:45<nadir>-R is no recommends?
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10:46<nadir>Well: if you want a really minimal gnome, to add the apps _you want, then you can try the command given by meandean.
10:46<nadir>If you want a full gnome, remove -R
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10:46<nadir>And if you want something in between, then i simply don't know .
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10:52<micronux>nadir:thank u,I want do a big work that install a full desktop environment and find I needed out
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10:56<micronux>nadir:I think I like a silly,but this way always give me answer
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11:11<peter1138>lupine, i'm thinking set up a new ip on a different vlan and deal with it from there :D
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11:47<bellatrix>Hello there
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11:49<bellatrix>guys i want work distro on linux
11:49<bellatrix>how i do this
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11:50<bellatrix>where is everyone today
11:50<bigjust>we're sleeping
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11:55<txt-file1>bellatrix: what do you want to do? I do not understand what you are trying to say.
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11:56<bellatrix>i want make iso on debian
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11:56<txt-file1>customise debian?
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11:57<bellatrix>How i do this
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12:00<txt-file1>I know that there were some ways but I can not find any tutorial or something like that
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12:00<kardan>how actually does the ISS a dist-upgrade?
12:01<txt-file1>kardan: are you shure that they update the running notebooks? they could just send newer notebooks to the ISS
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12:03<kardan>maybe they use debian-cd *joking*
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12:04<kardan>pitty he left so fast :)
12:05<Stummi>I don't think systems like ISS are updated if its not really needed (and they propably don't have hardware changes too often)
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12:07<kardan>It's also not clear which of their 52 computers use debian and which RHEL or Windows.
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12:09<GrubInitram>Hello. How do I get cryptsetup hooks/modules on an initrd.img?
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12:13<neo1691>Hello friends
12:14<GrubInitram>Hello friend
12:14<GrubInitram>I'm just replying
12:14<GrubInitram>I don't know much
12:15<neo1691>GrubInitram: just hang around here you will learn a lot
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12:15<GrubInitram>are you really neo? or are you the 1691 copy?
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12:16<neo1691>Well is 1691 copy something famous GrubInitram
12:16<GrubInitram>Indeed. I've heard great things!
12:17<neo1691>Any one knows how to tweak nautilus so that I get the minimize and maximize button at the left. Right now it's only close on the right and it makes it look so windoze
12:17<neo1691>GrubInitram: like.
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12:18<GrubInitram>Yes, you can use gconf-editor. I don't remember all the details, but look for gconf-editor menu buttons on the web, and you may find something
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12:19<txt-file1>neo1691: depends on your DE how to do this
12:19<kardan>GrubInitram: have you tried 'man cryptsetup' and the FAQ?
12:19<neo1691>It's gnome txt-file1
12:20<txt-file1>then I have no idea cause I use xfce4
12:20<txt-file1>but in gnome2 there has been a tool for configuring the design
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12:22<jonathan>Right now I'm trying to get my wireless usb adapter to work correctly, I've checked /proc/modules, and the correct drivers have been loaded
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12:22<GrubInitram>kardan: man → check, not really helpful
12:22<jonathan>I have wireless-tools package and wicd on here
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12:23<jonathan>I'm still getting really spotty wireless, and I have searched forums and search engines for a solution
12:23<jonathan>Not sure what to do now
12:24<txt-file1>jonathan: what are you runnnig? stable with linux 3.2? or a newer kernel?
12:24<jonathan>let me check
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12:25<jonathan>still checking sorry
12:25<txt-file1>jonathan: how do you check this?
12:25<jonathan>uname -r
12:26<jonathan>and it says 3.2.0-4 amd64
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12:26<txt-file1>kk … because it took you so long I already thought that you rebooted the system and asked grub
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12:27<txt-file1>no problem ;)
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12:27<jonathan>if it helps, which I'm sure it will, I'm using an Alfa Networking AWUS036H
12:28<jonathan>with the realtek rl8187 chipset I believe
12:28<txt-file1>you could try if the linux 3.9 from wheezy backports gives you better results because a big part of each new kernel verison are new driver
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12:29<jonathan>I'm sure that could be arranged
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12:29<txt-file1>do you know which driver it uses?
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12:30<jonathan>I do not know which driver it uses, I couldn't find how to check if I had the right one even loaded
12:30<txt-file1>according to the driver for rl8187 are in staging
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12:30<GrubInitram>kardan: FAQ → only talks about encrypting, trouble-shooting broken encryption, but nothing about mounting at boot. It does say about mounting, but I don't know how to use that information to load the kernel when I'm dropped to busybox
12:31<GrubInitram>it also deals with fstab, which is processed after the kernel is loaded
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12:31<GrubInitram>I need to get the cryptsetup hooks into initrd.img
12:32<GrubInitram>there is nothing about that in the FAQ or the man pages
12:32<GrubInitram>which I read the first times I encrypted
12:32<txt-file1>jonathan: also do you have firmware-realtek installed?
12:32<jonathan>I do not know if I have firmware-realtek installed
12:33<jonathan>let me check
12:34<jonathan>I think so I used lsusb and it does show the wireless adapter being identified
12:34<jonathan>is this the correct way to check?
12:34<jonathan>Still doing my best to learn
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12:35<txt-file1>run "aptitude show firmware-realtek" there is a line indicating if it is installed or not
12:35<jonathan>okay thank you
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12:36<jonathan>Aptitude has told me that it cannot locate it
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12:37<jonathan>looking for it right now
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12:38<txt-file1>can you pastebin the output of "aptitude search firmware-realtek" and "cat /etc/apt/sources.list", please?
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12:39<jonathan>let me see if I can I'll use my flash drive to get the screen results over to this computer and put them on pastebin for you
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12:40<txt-file1>thats why I always have a spare network cable … so I can connect via cable until I configured the wireless ;)
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12:41<jonathan>okay it's there
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12:42<jonathan>and yeah my 30 footer wont reach back here lol
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12:45<jonathan>I should let you know in soures.list the only apt sources I have right now without being able to get a reliable connection are the installation dvds
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12:46<jonathan>I just noticed that they are in the non-free section for wheezy, ah let me import them with my usb
12:46<txt-file1>already thought that something like this is the case
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12:48<txt-file1>try installing the firmware package and if this does not help I woul try a newer kernel
12:49<jonathan>Okay you got it I'll update you as it goes
12:49<jonathan>thanks for the opportunity to learn
12:49<txt-file1>no problem … we grow with our problems ;)
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12:51<jonathan>amen to that
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12:56<peter1138>well, that was weird. this machine which i just upgraded from squeeze to wheezy, then rebooted, took a total of 8 minutes to get from bus reset to klogd
12:56<peter1138>thought i'd broken it :p
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12:57<txt-file1>peter1138: how did you do the upgrade?
12:58<peter1138>apt-get update, apt-get upgrade, apt-get dist-upgrade, reboot
12:58<peter1138>with fingers crossed
12:58<txt-file1>yeah … I never thought that this is a good manual for upgrading
12:58<peter1138>difficulties: it has root on md, along with bonding, vlan and bridging networking
12:58<peter1138>plenty of things to go wrong
12:59<peter1138>txt-file1, dpkg told me to! ;)
12:59<peter1138>it's HP hardware so takes a while to boot anyway, but 8 minutes is more than normal
13:00<txt-file1>my experience is that there are better ways to upgrade
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13:01<peter1138>dselect? :D
13:01<peter1138>god i hated that
13:01<txt-file1>aptitude safe-upgrade and then manually resoling the unresolved stuff
13:02<peter1138>i don't usually have aptitude installed
13:02<txt-file1>your bad … IMHO debian could throw apt-get away and only install aptitude … I am unable to work with apt-get
13:03<txt-file1>or at least I do not want to work with it
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13:05<peter1138>aptitude has a habit of spending ages trying to solve impossible problems
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13:07<jonathan>txt-file1: I'm having problems, I can't figure out what to do now I extracted the firmware-nonfree.tar.gz and am in the directory and there a bunch of binary files
13:07<jonathan>I read use chmod +x with them
13:07<jonathan>is this correct?
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13:08<jonathan>If not I'm getting an image of the Debian nonfree-firmware that I'm going to add to my apt sources
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13:08<jonathan>then I'm glad I didn't do it
13:09<jonathan>this is what brought me in here cause people know what they are doing here
13:10<txt-file1>you shoul download the .deb from then transfer it to your wireless computer and then run "sudo dpkg -i /path/to/the/deb"
13:10<jonathan>okay that sounds much easier then what I'm doing right now
13:11<txt-file1>probably …
13:11<jonathan>is getting an image a workable solution as well?
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13:11<jonathan>sorry there just so many new things I'm learning about debian
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13:12<txt-file1>i will be afk for a couple of minutes … should be back in 15 to 30min … then I help you again if not someone else solved your problems
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13:13<sney>jonathan, downloading the package will be a lot faster because it's way smaller than an iso
13:13<sney>and then once you have internet access on your debian machine you won't need to truck things back and forth
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13:15<jonathan>okay thank you that'll be my main focus right now, and yes it'll be much easier than what I'm doing right now
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13:25<jonathan>Okay I'm confused again I cannot find the .deb to run dpkg on, and I'm looking on and in the nonfree section
13:26<jonathan>I mean .org
13:26<peter1138>Architecture _all_
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13:26<peter1138>click that link
13:26<peter1138>choose a mirror and it should download
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13:29<jonathan>goodness I'm blind okay now I know what to look for if I should ever have to work off the network and need to bring packages in manually thank you
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13:32<txt-file>back online
13:32<james41382>I want to install some gnome shell extensions for all users on this system. I believe I can simply install them for my user and then if I like the extensions I can move the folders from ~/.local/share/gnome-shell/extensions to /usr/share/gnome-shell/extensions?
13:32<jonathan>welcome back
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13:41<jonathan>Okay got firmware-realtek installed rebooted
13:42<jonathan>can still see my router, but cannot even ping it or anything else at this point
13:42<jonathan>I've tried ifconfig wlan0 down and then right back up
13:42<jonathan>hoping that would help, but nothing
13:43<jonathan>it's all coming back Destination Host Unreachable
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13:43<peter1138>wpa configuration something something something
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13:45<jonathan>well I'm going get right on my configuration see what's going on here
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13:45<jonathan>never mind it just started pinging my router
13:46<jonathan>that's weird
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13:46<jonathan>88% packet loss
13:46<jonathan>that's good right lol
13:48<jonathan>Going to do my best to investigate this further before I come back with more question thanks again everyone
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13:50<matt3o>I recently installed jessie on 2 decently spec'd desktop machines. One with integrated intel gpu the other with dedicated nvidia gtx660 (with proprietary drivers). I'm experiencing on both PCs the same laggyness on gnome3 especially when resizing windows. The first time is very slow, then it's pretty fast. After a while it is slow again. Is it a know issue? Can I do something about it? Thanks
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14:07<devil>matt3o: did you try any other DE to see if it occurs there as well?
14:08<matt3o>devil: actually I didn't, but I tried other distros (fedora/KDE and ubuntu) and they were not affected
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14:09<devil>matt3o: ok, but that is not exactly the same. I do not use gnome, so I can't tell, but I have not seen that behaviour in here much
14:10<devil>maybe a gnome 3 user will chip in
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14:11<matt3o>initially I thought it was a problem with the integrated intel gpu, but later I installed the same config on the nvidia pc and I've seen the same issue, so...
14:11<matt3o>anyway I may try a different DE
14:11<devil>matt3o: i run a hd 4200 with kde and that is perfectly fine
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14:13<jonathan>I'll be back I'm going to test out that adapter on this computer to see if it has the same problem on here
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14:17<jonathan>okay I'm back on this computer again
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14:17<jonathan>I think it's time to upgrade the kernel on my tower, because that's the only difference between my laptop and tower
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14:23<jonathan>thanks everyone here for the help, it's been a real fun learning experience today. Hopefully I won't have to come back and visit too soon
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14:56<ayaka>I am confused with update-grub, it generate a stranger entery, ,/dev/sdb5 is mounted on /srv and there are not such file vmlinuz-3.2.0-4-rt-686-pae in /boot
14:57<ayaka>I wonder whether the debian in /srv/chroot make grub think there is a system
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15:12*blitzed says, "ARRRRRRR me warezy!"
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15:14<Cogito_Ergom_Su>Hi, i'm using Wheezy Live on an XP computer and i would like to make it persistent. From what i have read i should be able to create an image file on one of my NTFS partitions, i just don't know how.
15:15<blitzed>XP ohnoes
15:15<Cogito_Ergom_Su>Also i just tried to upgrade all packages and it stopped because of a lack of space, i'm guessing my 2 gig ram isn't big enough.
15:16<blitzed>I've never messed around with Windows + Linux on the same drive, sorry
15:16<aj00200>I am trying to help a Mac user setup GRUB, but they are also keeping their Mac OS. Will running "grub-install /dev/sda" or otherwise attempting to install GRUB to /dev/sda overwrite the Mac OS or interfere with the boot process?
15:17<blitzed>way better to just add another drive to boot Linux from
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15:17<aj00200>blitzed: well, it's a laptop actually.
15:18<Cogito_Ergom_Su>I'm trying out different live versions.
15:18<blitzed>some peopel are brave and try resizing a Windows partirion...I would jsut start from scratch
15:19<blitzed>I have an old netbook which I use dto have Debian installed on...harddrive died, so I use Puppy Linux off a thumbdrive
15:19<Cogito_Ergom_Su>Once i'v chosen my distro, i'll scrap XP and install linux
15:20<blitzed>Puppy Linux can be good ifya want a live distro, but be able to save config and stuff to a temp filesystem file, etc.
15:20<Cogito_Ergom_Su>Puppy is one of distros i'm trying, i started with Debian as it is (stable)
15:20<blitzed>I'm using the Debian LXDE
15:21<blitzed>the thing about Puppy, it is awkward, but ok once you learn to train it heh
15:21<blitzed>the thing that bothers me about Puppy though, you can not really get security updates for it
15:22<blitzed>package manager is kinda awkward
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15:23<Cogito_Ergom_Su>I'm trying out Debian Wheezy LXDE, LUbuntu 12.0.4, PCLinuxOS LXDE Precise, Mint XFCE 15 and Puppy Precise
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15:24<blitzed>I prefer Debian, sometime suse Arch or variants ArchBang, CrunchBang
15:24<blitzed>Debian, I would nto mess around with the others =b
15:24<blitzed>rolling distro Debian woooo!
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15:25<blitzed>and so many other distros are based on Debian, I feel it is best to go to the source distro :)
15:25<sney>Cogito_Ergom_Su: the livecd isn't intended to upgrade what it has installed, 2GB of ram is more than enough for debian but the ramdisk the livecd created was too small
15:25<Cogito_Ergom_Su>Debian is supposed to be harder for beginners and since i couldn't even manage to install xchat ...
15:26<blitzed>many people go the Linux Mint, to Linux Mint Debian Edition route, then finally just switch to Debian.
15:26<blitzed>leave al lthe Linux Mint chaos behind
15:26<sney>if you want to play around with debian in a persistent environment within your windows pc, install virtualbox and install debian within a VM there
15:26<sney>that'll give you the real experience. debian-live is kind of a different animal.
15:27<Cogito_Ergom_Su>sney: Even when full persistence is up?
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15:28<sney>yeah, and going the VM way is less work too
15:28<blitzed>yeah, some folks panic if they have to use Linux shell, apt and all...could just install Synaptic so user gets hand holding like with Linux Mint as far as software
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15:29<Cogito_Ergom_Su>blitzed: I was using synaptic
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15:29<sney>the debian desktop task does come with graphical package management tools. they're always available, just experienced users usually prefer the command line
15:30<Cogito_Ergom_Su>sney: would MobaLiveCD_v2.1 do?
15:30<Cogito_Ergom_Su>sney: My XP is unstable (good reason to switch)
15:31<sney>that's still running the livecd. if you want to run debian-live, run debian-live, but if you want to be able to upgrade packages and change stuff and have the EXACT SAME environment as an installed debian system, don't run debian-live.
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15:32<Cogito_Ergom_Su>Is there a complete Wheezy guide or help file? I'm usualy pretty good at figuring things out with a little help
15:32<dpkg>The Installation Guide for Debian 7 "Wheezy" can be found at . See also <errata>, <release notes>.
15:32<blitzed>Cogit_Ergom_Su ah, there was a problem with dependencies?
15:32<sney>he said he ran out of space. which is normal, with the livecd, because /var isn't very big on the ramdisk
15:33<Cogito_Ergom_Su>blitzed: No, i just couldn't find it. I searched for xchat and it only found xchst
15:33<blitzed>Cogito_Ergom_Su hmmm
15:33<sney>that was probably a sources issue
15:33<Cogito_Ergom_Su>sney: that was for the upgrade all packages
15:35<Cogito_Ergom_Su>dpkg: That's the install guide, how about a use and configure guide?
15:35<dpkg>Cogito_Ergom_Su: I don't know, could you explain it?
15:35<dpkg>The Debian Administrator's Handbook is at and can be browsed, bought and downloaded. From Debian 7.0 "Wheezy" onwards, it can also can be installed from the debian-handbook package. Also ask me about <books> <docs>.
15:35<blitzed>maybe Debian does not liek Xchat because it is not free on Windows? *LOL*
15:35<sney>xchat is available in debian, I'm using it right now
15:35<sney>Cogito_Ergom_Su: dpkg is a channel bot, I'm the one answering you :P
15:36<blitzed>likewise, maybe check the checkboxes for other repositories
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15:37<Cogito_Ergom_Su>sney: Bought as in not free, right?
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15:37<Cogito_Ergom_Su>the Handbook can be bought
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15:38<sney>it can be bought if you want a copy on paper
15:38<sney>otherwise it's free of charge
15:38<ethan>Hey, how does one completely disable the lock screen/screensaver in Gnome 3? In the "Brightness and Lock" box it only gives me the options from 1 minute to 1 hour.
15:38<ethan>and i tried running some terminal commands and it still doesn't work
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15:39<sney>ethan it's probably in the dconf editor somewhere
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15:40<Cogito_Ergom_Su>sney: Ok, i got to the online version and it says Debian Squeeze, would that make the book un-usable with Wheezy?
15:41<sney>no, squeeze and wheezy are pretty similar for usage. version numbers are different, and gnome is different, but that's it mostly
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15:42<Cogito_Ergom_Su>sney: coz i hate following a guide that points to things that no longer exist or have been moved, it happened when i tried Ubuntu years ago.
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15:42<ethan>nvm i figured it out
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15:43<sney>Cogito_Ergom_Su: I know the feeling. that guide was written by a debian developer though, and squeeze is only 1 version behind wheezy, so it's still very current
15:43<sney>and it's official methods to do things rather than the crazy stuff you see on ubuntu blogs
15:44<Cogito_Ergom_Su>sney: Is there a portable version of virtualbox?
15:44<sney>portable as in you can run it off a USB drive or something? ... maybe
15:44<Cogito_Ergom_Su>sney: not Ubuntu blogs, try Ubuntu official documentation
15:44<sney>it sounds like something I've heard of, but I've never actually tried it
15:45<Cogito_Ergom_Su>sney: Portable as in no installation on XP needed
15:45<sney> ah, look what google found
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15:46<Cogito_Ergom_Su>While i think of it, what's the difference between firefox and iceweasel
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15:47<mshuler>only the name and icon
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15:48<sney>it is only the name and logo. mozilla's license doesn't allow distributing the "firefox" brand without certain restrictions, but it does allow distributing the software itself. so debian changed the brand.
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15:50<Cogito_Ergom_Su>so Iceweasel 10 is firefox 10?
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15:52<Cogito_Ergom_Su>Can i run my firefox portable from whithin Debian-Live?
15:53<sney>as long as it's a linux binary
15:53<Cogito_Ergom_Su>aahh, nope win binary
15:53<mshuler>I use the upstream firefox tbz on Debian along with several other browsers
15:54<sney>when you have debian actually installed, you can get more recent iceweasel versions at However, the Iceweasel 10 on debian is the 10 extended support release, so it still gets security updates etc
15:55<Cogito_Ergom_Su>right now i'm trying to figure out how not to lose all the urls i have right now
15:55<mshuler>history and bookmarks? export them to a file
15:56<Cogito_Ergom_Su>mshuler: right, thanks
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15:59<Cogito_Ergom_Su>weird the libraries for history and bookmarks are empty, but i have bookmarks and history
16:00<mshuler>to the best of my knowledge, those are all databases these days, so the old flat files are empty
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16:01<mshuler>yup - they are sqlite dbs
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16:02<mshuler>looks like the bookmark auto backups are json
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16:03<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>Iceweasel just crashed, i tought that couldn't happen on linux
16:04<sney>anything can happen
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16:04<sney>we try to make it less likely, browsers can be strange beasts though
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16:05<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>sney: Ya, that's what i hate about computers, they aren't always logical
16:05<mshuler>and thus the reason I have a few different browsers installed ;) - some sites just don't play nice with particular browsers (and some browsers break badly all by themselves (/me looks at chrome..))
16:06<giovani>ciao al canale
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16:07<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
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16:08<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>my bro studied computers, i studied Automation, where a 1 is a 1 and a 0 is a 0
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16:08<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>Is Wheezy the most stable and reliable linux available?
16:08-!-nozzle [~nozzle@] has joined #debian
16:09<mshuler>wheezy is the current stable release, yes - that's the recommended version to use
16:09-!-adema [~adema@] has joined #debian
16:09<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>mshuler: I mean of all distros, not just Debian
16:10-!-nozzle [~nozzle@] has quit []
16:10<mshuler>apples >< oranges
16:10<sney>it's a hard comparison to make
16:10<sney>and people in #debian mostly use debian, so not much basis to compare with others
16:11<sney>That said - the 2 most popular OSes for production web servers are debian stable and centos
16:11<avtobiff>now even on amazon web services
16:11<hypercoffeedude>I have used many linux distros, and as much as I was starting to like ubuntu for some things, lately I found myself coming back to Debian.
16:12<musca>Cogito_Ergo_Sum: iceweasel 17 is available as a security-update for wheezy.
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16:12<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>so those that need the most reliable os use debian stable
16:12-!-arman [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:13<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>what's centos?
16:13-!-OkropNick [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:13<musca>and most of all firefox crashes will vanish if you reduce the number of plugins.
16:13<avtobiff>Cogito_Ergo_Sum, a fork of red hat enterprise linux, without the paid support
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16:14<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>musca: 0 plugins
16:14-!-hele_ [] has joined #debian
16:14<mshuler>I use various linux flavors, BSDs, AIX, Solaris, and other unix-like OSs - Debian is also more than just a bunch of bits that run most of my systems; it's a community of people, in which I participate, that strive to improve Debian - that makes me happy :)
16:14-!-ayaka [~ayaka@] has left #debian [离开]
16:14<musca>which URL?
16:14-!-bst_ [] has joined #debian
16:15<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>musca: mmm ... probably one sent here not long before i dissapeared and came back, check the logs
16:15<musca>mshuler: well spoken! It's the mother lode of software freedom.
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16:16<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>Ok, if i install Wheezy LXDE, can i easily use playonlinux to use my old win games? they are all listed as compatible
16:17<hypercoffeedude>musca: Indeed I've always seen Debian as a major influence in open source.
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16:18<musca>Cogito_Ergo_Sum: which arch? amd64 or i386?
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16:18<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>musca: I don't know coz my computer is 64 but the games and XP version i use are 32
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16:19<mshuler>Cogito_Ergo_Sum: playonlinux is packaged in Debian, if that's what you were asking
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16:19<sney>Cogito_Ergo_Sum: how much ram do you have?
16:19<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>sney: 2gig
16:19<sney>just go i386
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16:20<musca>Cogito_Ergo_Sum: for wine/playonlinux you need to enable multiarch on amd64
16:20<sney>the 32-64 stuff is better now with multiarch but it's still kind of weird, so staying native 32-bit will make it easier, and there's no downside if you're under 4GB of memory
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16:20<musca>i agree with sney.
16:21<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>mshuler: good, but does it work well and stable
16:21-!-gaffa [] has joined #debian
16:21<mshuler>same - I run amd64 for crossbuilding packages and since I'm using 8g ram
16:21<mshuler>Cogito_Ergo_Sum: if it doesn't, submit a bug report :)
16:21<mshuler>(I don't use it, so I don't know)
16:21<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>musca: sney good i made the right choice with Debian live then i got the i386
16:22*mshuler runs an openarena server and plays that ;)
16:22<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>what's openarena
16:22<sney>playonlinux was fine last time I used it. it can be a little odd due to the multiple versions of wine, but that's not playonlinux's fault really
16:22-!-ompaul [] has joined #debian
16:22<sney>you can also try just using wine without the playonlinux part
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16:25<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>Am i mistaken in thinking that Wheezy LXDE i386 is my best bet for a Stable, Reliable, Resource light, Easy to use OS?
16:26<mshuler>sounds reasonable to me
16:27-!-child [] has joined #debian
16:27<avtobiff>i installed xfce on my parents computer and they are very satisfied
16:27<mshuler>I should give lxde a look sometime - I use kde
16:27-!-ykako [] has joined #debian
16:27<avtobiff>them not being especially tech savvy
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16:28<ykako>Hello, anyone here experiencing problems with the apt package and update repos?
16:28<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>avtobiff: I'm always trying to get XP lighter, maybe why it's unstable but hey ...
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16:28<gaffa>I've recently taken the step to use fluxbox and I'm very satisfied with the simplicity.
16:28<ykako>i.e. are there other reports of problems, or being offline
16:29<avtobiff>i use xmonad myself, used wmii before that and compiz/gnome earlier
16:29-!-lostson [] has joined #debian
16:29<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>gaffa: Is fluxbox gui?
16:29<mshuler>ykako: I just updated - no problems at all - what error are you getting?
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16:30<ykako>connection is refused, network is unreachable, etc...
16:30<ykako>im a dev, just trying to isolate if the problem is from my end or yours
16:30<ykako>thank you :)
16:30<mshuler>that's not a problem with all mirrors, but could be for the one you are using
16:30<ykako> <-
16:31<ykako>but also experienced problems with debian main repo
16:31<ykako>and gatech, and mit
16:31<mshuler>yeah, I'm using
16:31<ykako>ill try it again
16:31<ykako>thanks @mshuler
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16:32<ykako>Cannot initiate the connection to (2a01:4f8:131:152b::42). - connect (101: Network is unreachable) [IP: 2a01:4f8:131:152b::42 80]
16:32<gaffa>It's a window manager, with desktops and tabbed windows. It is not a full blown desktop in itself, but the simplicity appeals to me..
16:32<ykako> Cannot initiate the connection to (2001:4f8:8:36::6). - connect (101: Network is unreachable) [IP: 2001:4f8:8:36::6 80]
16:32<gaffa>at Cogito_Ergo_Sum
16:32<ykako>its a problem with my box prboably. ty
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16:34<mshuler>ykako: sounds like ipv6 is not happy on you machine? can you 'ping6' ?
16:34<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>gaffa: I started with dos (actualy comodore64), but windows has made me lazy
16:35<devil>Cogito_Ergo_Sum: debian will fix taht ;)
16:35<bleach>I've never fooled with grub2 and need so help. I just installed wheeze to sdc6. The installation ran grub and installed to sda but the computer boots from sdc. Update-grub (on the 'normal" system does not find the wheeze partition. Any ideas?
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16:36<mshuler>ykako: you can also prefer ipv4 by editing /etc/gai.conf and uncommenting the line "precedence ::ffff:0:0/96 100"
16:36<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>devil: Hey, if i don't have to re-install XP over a dozen times per years, that will be a break
16:36-!-sascha [~sascha@2001:41b8:203:dc13:f2de:f1ff:fe5c:3a67] has joined #debian
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16:38<mshuler>last time I installed Debian was in 2010
16:38<mshuler>granted my laptop is the newest machine I have from then..
16:40<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>mshuler: Just on this machine (my bro's old computer), i've re-installed XP over a dozen times in the last 12 months.
16:40<mshuler>stop the insanity! :)
16:41<musca>retry, reboot, reinstall :)
16:41<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>btw, while i'm using Debian live, what can i do to check the hardware?
16:41<gaffa>It's even more insane when you realize that most people are set once you have set up a working web browser for them.
16:42<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>gaffa: I do need more then firefox ;-)
16:42-!-giovani [] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via]
16:42<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>gaffa: You forget Games
16:42<gaffa>"most people" :)
16:43<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>gaffa: Don't most people like Games?
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16:43<musca>Cogito_Ergo_Sum: you can list hardware with lspci, check modules with lsmod, and read logs with dmesg|less
16:43-!-Sammy123 [~sammy@] has joined #debian
16:44<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>musca: eee ... you lost me, i'm a Noob for linux
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16:45<devil>Cogito_Ergo_Sum: open the black hole (shell) and type those commands :)
16:45<musca>you can try to open a terminal and type "lspci"
16:45<devil>one at a time
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16:45<bleach>power juist went out---bye
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16:49<musca>when he opened the terminal, he blacked out ...
16:49<Sammy123>hey there, I'm trying to compile a kernel module
16:50<Sammy123>however after make modules_install, I cannot see it with modprobe -av loop
16:50<Sammy123>(trying to compile the loop module
16:53<Sammy123>first I went make menuconfig, selected the loop module with <M>, and then make modules, then make modules_install
16:53<Sammy123>is there anything I might have forgotten?
16:54<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>musca: Nope, i tried to read all the garbage those commands spewed, but it all loks like a list of my hardware and what debian uses to make it work
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16:55<musca>Cogito_Ergo_Sum: wow, what a deep jump into cold water!
16:55<ring0>hey, i'm using a recent kernel linux-image-3.10-2-amd64. why is it built without the ondemand governor? scaling_available_governors gives me 'performance and powersave'
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16:56<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>musca: Not really, i have used Assembler/ Dbase/ Turbo Pascal and others before, just never Linux
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16:57-!-ompaul [] has quit [Quit: and zebedee said its time for other stuff]
16:57<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>I think i wasn't clear, what i want to do is Test the hardware. Make sure my problems come from XP, not the hardware
16:57<musca>Cogito_Ergo_Sum: what vga does this find: lspci|grep -i vga
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16:59<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation G73 [GeForce 7600 GT] (rev a1)
16:59<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>Right card
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17:00<musca>Cogito_Ergo_Sum: the free nouveau driver is integrated in xserver-xorg for thar card. Almöst no need for configurations.
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17:01<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>musca: good
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17:01<devil>avtobiff_: that gives him away, doesn't it :)
17:01<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>my motherboard is Asus P5b
17:01<musca>avtobiff_: yeah, i also like motörhead :)
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17:02<avtobiff_>devil, musca, ja det gör det :)
17:03<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>avtobiff_: what?
17:03<avtobiff_>maybe i should go to what's left of the cheese and wine party instead of rolling packages...
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17:04<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>mmm du fromage
17:04<devil>avtobiff_: dig the swiss cheese
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17:05<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>When Linux drinks enough wine it can run windows software.
17:06<ykako>go home linux
17:06<musca>don't forget to install the clamav virusscanner
17:06<ykako>your drunk
17:07<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>ykako: It<s only when Linux is drunk that he understands Windows
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17:08<diegomontoya>Hay alguien
17:08<ykako>linux is always drunk
17:08<diegomontoya>Alguien habla español ?
17:08<ykako>windows is belligerent though
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17:08<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>diegomontoya: Nope but i understand your nick
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17:09<ykako>@diegomontoya un poco
17:09<ykako>tienes una problema?
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17:09<ykako>or not...he quit
17:09<avtobiff_>devil, being vegan i don't do much but drink wine at those parties
17:10-!-mode/#debian [+l 597] by debhelper
17:10<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>avtobiff_: You drink bad grape juice?
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17:10<devil>avtobiff_: UGH. I am happy to be a vegetarian. a universe without cheese makes no sense at all :)
17:10<avtobiff_>ykako, also #debian-es :)
17:11<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>devil: With you on the cheese, but i like meat
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17:11<avtobiff_>Cogito_Ergo_Sum, fermented right?
17:11<ykako>i dont speak enough :P
17:11-!-mbaragiola [] has joined #debian
17:11<ykako>but ty
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17:11<Sammy123>I'd rather miss out on meat than on cheese ;)
17:11<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>avtobiff_: nah, wine is just grape juice gone bad
17:11<Sammy123>but # insmod loop.ko tells me: insmod: error inserting 'loop.ko': -1 Invalid module format
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17:12<avtobiff_>devil, there are of coures a wide selection on vegan cheese also. but i'll go to party instead of continuing this off topic discussion. bye.
17:13<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>so ... can anyone help me with using Debian Live to test my hardware?
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17:15<Frogec>good evening
17:16<Frogec>here it is:
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17:17<Cogito_Ergo_Sum>Frogec: Here is what?
17:17<Frogec>my problem
17:18<Frogec>with connection
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17:19<ykako>thank you debian people for your help
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17:49<Sammy123>I'm giving up for now, can't determine what I'm doing wrong :/
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18:37<jned>If I run an app with & and then I use fg to bring it to front, how do I put to back again and regain my shell,
18:37<jned>I can hit ctrl+c to kill it, but thats not what I wanna do
18:39<blitzed>been a long time since I did the shell multitasking magic hehe
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18:41<blitzed>man the decade of Windows on the job ruined my teenage hacker knowledge.
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18:42<Arrowmaster>ctrl-z to pause it and get back to the shell then bg to run it again in the background
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18:45<blitzed>dur me
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19:04<jmcnaught>jned: you might also find GNU Screen to be pretty useful for multitasking on the shell
19:05<jned>jmcnaught, I use that too
19:05<jned>maybe I should just switch to it eh
19:05<jned>its easier, just remember commands for one of em
19:05<jned>blitzed, thx
19:06<jmcnaught>jned: why not bothÃ? :)
19:06<jned>yeah, how hard is gf and bg to remember hehe
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19:10<CogitoErgoSum>Is there a difference in the end result when installing from Full "cd", Live cd or network cd?
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19:12<CogitoErgoSum>Anybody awake?
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19:13<chealer>CogitoErgoSum: not if you have access to a mirror (but I'm not sure about live)
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19:16<CogitoErgoSum>... mmm ... if i scrap my XP and can't manage to make Debian work, all i'll have left is the live cd(usb) or nothing at all if i use network
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19:17<devil>why not dual-boot for a start?
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19:18<CogitoErgoSum>devil: No free partition and isn't dual boot harder to set up anyways?
19:18<devil>not harder to set up after the partitioning is done
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19:19<devil>gotta run, it's late here
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19:20<CogitoErgoSum>ya, last time i tried partitionning, i ended up having to give my HDD to my brother so he could remove the data to fix the logic
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19:56<nerst>hi guys
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20:00<paco>hello, I'm using stable but need compiz and other packages from sid, I added sid repos and added APT::Default-Release "stable" to /etc/apt/apt.conf, but now sid packages are preferred over the ones from backports. How could I prevent this from happening?
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20:52<zykotick9>paco: trying to mix stable and sid is bound to lead to tears (see "/msg dpkg frankendebian" for details), you're probably best to pick one or the other (stable or unstable), binary mixing isn't a good option.
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21:20<Rusty101>hello, i am noob to linux. I have an AMD a4-3300 that is supposed to throttle to 2.5 GHz under load. cpufreq shows max at 1.9 GHz, which should be the minimum. How can i change this to the proper frequency? Right now I have it locked at 1.9 GHz and that is as high as it will clock. Debian Wheezy 7.1 Thank you
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21:37<Rusty101>is this a help channel?
21:38<chealer>Rusty101: yes. is the frequency right in other operating systems? what is the FSB?
21:39<Rusty101>yes it functions properly in Win7
21:39<Rusty101>let me check FSB
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21:41<chealer>Rusty101: ah, nevermind. sorry to inform you, but according to 2.5 GHz is just the "turbo" frequency
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21:45<Rusty101>sso it won't turbo?
21:46<chealer>Rusty101: cpufreq must not be aware of turbo. I suppose the CPU will still switch to turbo mode if it can
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21:47<Rusty101>is there a package for this that you know of?
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21:48<Infiltrator>Rusty101: apt-cache search CPU turbo
21:48<Infiltrator>Rusty101: Which gives to you: i7z and i7z-gui
21:48<chealer>Rusty101: not sure what you mean, but cpuburn helps stress-test CPUs.
21:48<Infiltrator>Rusty101: apt-cache show i7z gives as its description: "i7z reports Intel Core i7, i5, i3 CPU information about Turbo Boost"
21:48<chealer>Infiltrator: that's for Intel Core
21:49<Infiltrator>Isn't turbo an Intel thing?
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21:50<Rusty101>I didn't get anything with that command
21:50*Infiltrator sits down and shuts up
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21:51<chealer>Infiltrator: not only
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21:52<chealer>i7z is not in Debian 7
21:53<kardan>is this true: "
21:53<Rusty101>I will have to find a way to enable turbo, correct?
21:54<Infiltrator>Rusty101: Could you please past the output of `dmesg | grep powernow`?
21:54<kardan>"Great insight. I don't understand why linux still uses a known-weak /dev/[u]random when BSD and OSX have used a Yarrow-based PRNG for a decade, and there was even a patch for a Fortuna-based [] device in the -mm tree at one point."
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21:55<kardan>it is said in there that the pseudo random generator is not random enough (the article itself is about attacking wallets for bitcoins users on android)
21:55<tgs3>as user A I want to run graphical program like xclock as user B, how to? e.g. using xnet?
21:55<tgs3>* xnest
21:55<Rusty101>[ 3.733631] powernow-k8: Found 1 AMD A4-3300M APU with Radeon(tm) HD Graphics (2 cpu cores) (version 2.20.00)
21:55<Rusty101>[ 3.733643] powernow-k8: Core Performance Boosting: on.
21:55<Rusty101>[ 3.733704] powernow-k8: 0 : pstate 0 (1900 MHz)
21:55<Rusty101>[ 3.733706] powernow-k8: 1 : pstate 1 (1800 MHz)
21:55<Rusty101>[ 3.733708] powernow-k8: 2 : pstate 2 (1600 MHz)
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21:55<tgs3>I would like user A to not need to type in password of user B, as it was possible with sudo sux ... before sux got broken, using sudoers
21:55<Infiltrator>!tell Rusty101 -about paste
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21:58<sney>kardan, this support channel isn't really the right place to ask, maybe try #debian-devel or #debian-security
21:59<kardan>sney: thanks
21:59<sney>I mean, that's probably correct but "known weak" is subjective. either way, someone there will probably know
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22:00<chealer>kardan: urandom is not meant to be (very) secure. subjective indeed
22:01<themill>tgs3: you could use gksu rather than sux
22:02*kardan has to read the rest of the comments first, but "One of the issues is people say, "just use EGD", but most people don't know about it, don't have it running, and software often uses egd only when /dev/random doesn't exist, if it can use it at all. Having two interfaces isn't the right approach. I can see an argument for leaving something like accelerometer-based entropy gathering in userspace, but as far as I know, there's not a socket setup in plac
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22:04<tgs3>themill: what would be the command to spawn a shell, either "bash" inside current xterminal, or new xterminal, in which I will be user foo so I can run from there few programs like typing xclock & firefox & krusader &
22:04<tgs3>themill: using gksu[do]
22:05<Infiltrator>tgs3: You should be able to do gksu -u <user> bash
22:08<themill>actually, I think you'll have the same problems with ^C handling with "gksu bash" as you would with sux
22:09<tgs3>Infiltrator: it has at least 2 bugs in Debian
22:09<themill>tgs3: gksu x-terminal-emulator works just fine
22:09<tgs3>in debian 7 and other debians that fixed some exploit by killing off sux: you get warnings about no jobs controll, xterm get's messed up (like if it lacks "reset") etc
22:10<tgs3>themill: is that secure though? then the user I sudo into will have my xauth cookie so that user could (if hacked) e.g. keylog my main X session or draw some fake things (like fake pgp/kwallet pass prompt) in it
22:11<themill>it's no less secure than anything else you were proposing
22:11<tgs3>themill: the only good solution would be xnest then? but how to achieve above usecase with xnest then?
22:11<tgs3>themill: yes, so while working around sudo I thought it's time to move on to secure solution :)
22:11<themill>As soon as you allow someone to draw in your X session, you let them do anything
22:11<tgs3>(other then to run each user in own alt-ctrl-... but it's very uncomfortable for many isolated users)
22:12<tgs3>right, and xnest fixes this afair?
22:12<tgs3>in worst case one could vnc into Xvfb run as user B but that has many problmes and seems ovderkill
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22:14<themill>I somehow doubt that xnest (or its more recent xserver-xephyr) would necessarily help this. If you ran the nested server as user A and gave the MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE to user B for the nested session it might work... I don't know if they can still grab keyboard and mouse events from the parent X session though.
22:15<tgs3>so there now exists no software to do that?
22:16<themill>the nested server *might* work.
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23:21<emi>Is it bad if i'm dropping packets?
23:22<emi>when I look at ifconfig
23:22<neo1691>I installed debain! Its very fresh! :) Just want to know if there are additional drivers available for my gpu? its nvidia geforce gt 630M 2 gb
23:22<emi>tx dropped 1 rx dropped 578 so far
23:22<emi>i just restarted but it increases steadily
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23:24<emi>hrm. I might just replace the internal wifi card with something more compatible than the rtl8188ce card
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23:27<mdik>hi. port 6000 should not be reachable from the outside, should it?
23:28<mdik>(how do i close it?)
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23:30<wompa>neo1691, you probably have the free drivers, there are also proprietary drivers from nvidia
23:30<neo1691>wompa: Thanks!!
23:32<wompa>!tell neo1691 -about nvidia
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23:34<mdik>nevermind -_-
23:34<wompa>mdik, all ports are open as default iptables rules
23:36<wompa>mdik, from outside depends on your network setup (router and such)
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23:39<mdik>wompa: yes. no. i have to start X with -nolisten tcp
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23:42<mdik>but thanks anyway. i'm one of these terrible persons putting questions into irc and then using the waiting time to websearch the issue...
23:42<mdik>sue me (;
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23:51<neo1691>I am trying to install the drivers, terminal says insert the disk labelled Debian GNU/Linux 7.1.0 _Wheezy_ - Official amd64 DVD Binary-1 20130615-23:06, Is it the same as the installation iso?
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---Logclosed Tue Aug 13 00:00:57 2013