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#debian IRC Logs for 2013-08-21

---Logopened Wed Aug 21 00:00:08 2013
---Daychanged Wed Aug 21 2013
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00:16<yacine>slt la communotez ubuntu
00:16<yacine>vous penser koi des femen
00:16<dpkg>Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debian-fr. Francophone users: for help in french, please go to #debian-fr.
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00:18<yacine>je suis sur le canal
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00:21<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu on instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
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02:02<afro>Hello all. I am trying to install Dwarf Fortress on Debian, and unsurprisngly it's a real bitch. While installing packages in order to run it, I keep running into 'x could not be installed because it depends on y.' so I go to install y. Then I get 'y could not be installed becaused it depends on a, b, c, d, e, f...etc.'. What is an easier way to do this besides doing it all manually?
02:02<afro>*Wheezy, btw
02:03<jm_>the obvious way is to use apt
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02:04<afro>I try to use apt but it says 'x file could not be located', so when I want to install something I have to find the package via google, download it, then dpkg it
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02:05<afro>so i dont think my apt is able to find stuff via the internet. is there a way to fix that?
02:05<jm_>show an example of what it's not being able to find (use a pastebin -- /msg dpkg paste)
02:05<themill>command and full output in a pastebin is always easier to deal with than hypotheticals
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02:10<afro>i have the pastebin, but so you want me to message it to dpkg? sorry, im not familiar with this channel
02:11<themill>just tell us the URL of the pastebin
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02:13<themill>afro: can you pastebin your sources.list for us?
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02:17<afro>sure, here's the whole thing-
02:17<themill>dpkg: tell afro about wheezy sources.list
02:18<afro>yes plz
02:18<themill>afro: it seems you didn't have an internet connection when you did the installation but you do now -- you need to fix your sources.list accordingly so that apt can find packages.
02:19<afro>that's true. how do I go about doing that?
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02:21<themill>what the dpkg bot just told you
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02:22<afro>err, was I supposed to get a message?
02:22<Noskcaj>How do i set up a buildd node and would it actually help
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02:24<themill>afro: yes, dpkg sent you a private message. It would have opened up a new chat window in your irc client
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02:25<afro>themill: oh, thank you very much!
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03:03<joshef>hey grn
03:03<joshef>i am having problem in python
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03:05<grn>bhagat chodu
03:05<joshef>sagi dogi
03:05<grn>aa le
03:05<joshef>aava deje
03:05<grn>jayesh bhai
03:05<joshef>bhagat ne besado
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03:21<powermaniac>Hello, would anyone be able to tell me how to (if possible) install the open source ATI/AMD drivers?
03:22<txt-file>powermaniac: aptitude install xserver-xorg-driver-ati
03:22<powermaniac>Thank you
03:23<txt-file>replace driver with video
03:23<txt-file>but it should be installed by default because task-desktop depends on it
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03:23<powermaniac>txt-file: Do that also?
03:23<jm_>don't forget to install the fimrware if needed
03:25<txt-file>the package is xserver-xorg-video-ati and not xserver-xorg-driver-ati … this is what I wanted to say
03:25<powermaniac>Okay...Dare I sak what happens if I just used the command xserver-xorg-driver-ati?
03:26<powermaniac>Well I just discovered what it does, anyway...It seems to remove a load of stuff
03:26<txt-file>I think it does not exist and would give you a "no package found with name …"
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03:27<powermaniac>Although that is easily fixed it seems with apt-get update etc.
03:27<txt-file>this does not sound right
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03:28<txt-file>could you pastebin the output of aptitude?
03:29<powermaniac>I very hastily closed it a moment ago, so unless there is a way to get it up again then no =\
03:29<powermaniac>Good thing this is a fresh install and I can start again if needed
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03:30<txt-file>if it is done it makes not really sense to look over it
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03:30<powermaniac>Well it seems to have removed a load of applications
03:30<powermaniac>So that's a thing...
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03:31<jm_>/var/log/apt/history.log or dpkg.log should have details
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03:33<powermaniac>Can I open it with the terminal as currently I don't seem to have any applications that can open it....
03:34<powermaniac>Might as well just go for a fresh install
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03:35<jm_>it's a text file
03:36<powermaniac>Yeah I know but whatever happened removed any text applications that were installed
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03:36<Iridos>"cat", "tail"?
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03:38<qaz>I have a problem with avahi
03:38<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
03:38<qaz>I have problem with avahi I have problem with avahi
03:38<powermaniac>Okay well I'll be back going to do a fresh install as I think that will be the easiest fix
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03:39<qaz>I have the
03:39<qaz>in front of me
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03:39<qaz>but I still can get only myhost.local
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03:42<qaz>server ping client : ping myclient.local = ok
03:42<stderr>qaz: Can you put your /etc/nsswitch.conf on
03:43<themill>qaz: just as dpkg said, it would be handy to see real commands and their output. At the moment, I don't think anyone knows what is or isn't working and what you want to work.
03:44<jm_>brave new desktop crap strikes again :)
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03:45<qaz>@themill ok
03:46<themill>jm_: well... no more than any other unconfigured or half-configured package doesn't work... That's a bit like complaining that you can't ssh to a machine that doesn't have an ssh server installed on it
03:46<stderr>jm_: New? I wrote about mDNS for my master degree 5 years ago.
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03:49<jm_>stderr: I fail to see how that's relevant for typical debian installation
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03:49<stderr>My point was that zeroconf, mDNS and all that ain't something new.
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03:50<qaz>client and server ping
03:50<stderr>I had it running on Debian 5 years ago as part of my project.
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03:50<jm_>luckily most of us haven't had to edit nsswitch.conf to get rid of it back then
03:51<themill>A typical debian install is probably mdns aware these days. I've got it on all my non-$work-server machines
03:53<themill>oh joy... and dns hijacking also thrown in for more amusement
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03:53<stderr>qaz: You're not pinging server.local. You're pinging zotac.local.hacklab.
03:53<stderr>Check your /etc/resolv.conf
03:53<qaz>I don't get why the server using the domain and try to get the dns
03:54*themill dislikes "edited" pastes
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03:54<qaz>@stderr sorry my paste got mixed with another text from a website
03:54<qaz>this is the correct one
03:55<stderr>As far as I can tell, the only difference is line 20... It's the same IP.
03:55<qaz>but it should ping client.local and not an external IP
03:56<qaz>and I don't get why If i set ping server.local = server.local.localdomain
03:57<qaz>if i ping sever = server.localdomain
03:57<qaz>the secon make sense
03:57<themill>qaz: can you pastebin /etc/hosts from both machines
03:57<stderr>Check your config as I said. And ask opendns to NOT resolve NXDOMAIN names...
03:57<weasel>opendns is horrible.
03:58<weasel>censors and liars
03:58<qaz>ok let me changet the setting on the router
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04:00<stderr>qaz: I doubt the problem is on your router... Did you see "<stderr> Check your /etc/resolv.conf" or "<themill> qaz: can you pastebin /etc/hosts from both machines"?
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04:03<qaz2>my hosts
04:05<themill>are libnss-mdns and avahi-daemon installed on both machines?
04:06<qaz2>after I removed opendns from the router I can't ping server.local = ping: unknown host server.local
04:07<themill>that's an improvement -- at least you're now correctly getting nxdomain
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04:07<stderr>Can we see /etc/resolv.conf? And not just the one line, you gave me.
04:07<qaz2>resolv.conf = <--- my router
04:07<stderr>Yeah, that line...
04:07<qaz2>there isn't too much
04:07<qaz2>just to don't edit by hand
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04:08<stderr>No domain or search? Ok.
04:08<qaz2>my bad
04:08<themill>popping the entire thing in a pastebin is always easier than this amount of guesswork
04:08<stderr>I have to got to work. Will be back as stdhell in about 30 minutes...
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04:10<qaz2>tnx stderr for your help
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04:12<qaz2>all my pastebin
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04:15<musca>txt-file: i think, you meant xserver-xorg-video-radeon not xserver-xorg-video-ati
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04:19<qaz2>rebooting see in a bit....
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04:32<txt-file>musca: nope … the ati is the right package
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04:34<jm_>(it depends on radeon anyway)
04:35<txt-file>and I had times where I had to write a xorg.conf because XServer searched only for the ati driver when using the autoconfig
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04:46<Powermaniac>txt-file: So what was that command to get the ATI/AMD open source drivers. (Just fresh installed Debian)
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04:54<Powermaniac>Anyone able to tell me what the commands are to get the open source ATI/AMD drivers (just did a fresh install)?
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04:54<musca>Powermaniac: what CGA-card do you use?
04:54<jm_>just install xorg package
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04:55<Powermaniac>musca: I have a ATI Radeon 5870.
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04:56<musca>so you need firmware-linux-nonfree
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04:57<musca>funny typo btw, CGA
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04:59<txt-file>or install task-desktop
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05:01<Powermaniac>So it was aptitude install xserver-xorg-video-ati right?
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05:01<Powermaniac>That is requesting to remove a load of files once again...
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05:03<stdhell>Powermaniac: Without a list of packages, it's hard for anyone to say if that's an error or not.
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05:09<qaz>I got back server.localdomain (set on hosts)
05:09<qaz>but this in not I was looking for
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05:09<qaz>server.local is still unknown host :(
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05:17<_aeris_>qaz > .local is reserved for avahi
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05:17<qaz>I havthe server can ping the client.local
05:17<qaz>but the client can't ping server.local
05:17<musca>qaz: "I got back" ? did you change anything?
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05:17<_aeris_>do you have avahi on both ?
05:18<_aeris_>and libnss-mdns
05:18<qaz>I try to set nsswitch.conf...but still nothing
05:18<_aeris_>and configure /etc/nsswitch.conf
05:18<qaz>yes both installed and nss conficure to use mdns4
05:19<_aeris_>mdns udp port is not blocked ?
05:19<_aeris_>try restarting avahi on both
05:19<_aeris_>perhaps one has missed first avahi broadcasting
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05:19<txt-file>Powermaniac: please pastebin the output
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05:29<Powermaniac>Sorry had to disappear for a second then
05:30-!-mode/#debian [+l 617] by debhelper
05:30<Powermaniac>Here is the pastebin of the applications it wants to remove:
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05:31<qaz>that's odd ..both mdns : 5353/tcp closed mdns
05:31<qaz>but the server can ping the client
05:32<peter1138>mdns is udp
05:32<Powermaniac>Okay just tried that link and was getting flagged as spam. This should work:
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05:34<qaz>tnx peter
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05:37<qaz>5353/udp open|filtered zeroconf on the client on the server mhhhh
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05:39<qaz>mmmhhh nope theboth open|filtered
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05:46<jm_>Powermaniac: have you only used apt-get so far?
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05:47<Powermaniac>jm_:Okay so I had to get my wireless adaptor working so I moved the htc7010.fw file into /lib/firmware
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05:48<Powermaniac>jm_: I've also installed Firefox as Iceweasel wasn't allowing me to download Hexchat.
05:48<Powermaniac>jm_: And I downloaded Hexchat and that is it.
05:48<jm_>Powermaniac: that's not what I am asking
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05:48<Powermaniac>jm_: Oh sorry.
05:50<Powermaniac>jm_: Okay so I opened a new terminal and tried "aptitude install xserver-sorg-video-ati" again and this time it doesn't want to remove or add anything.
05:51<jm_>Powermaniac: hmm, confused
05:51<musca>Powermaniac: it doesn't want? so what's the output?
05:52<musca>btw, is usually mor friendly than
05:53<Powermaniac>Okay this is what the output was:
05:54<jm_>yeah makes sense as you apparently already have xorg installed
05:55<Powermaniac>Oh...So I have to use the non-free drivers to get my GPU to work?
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05:56<jm_>are you saying it doesn't work now?
05:57<Powermaniac>Well when I booted into it, it told me something along the lines of my GPU isn't detected and thus GNOME can't run.
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05:58<jm_>check your X logfile: /var/log/Xorg.0.log (pust it on pastebin, nopaste or pastebinit to the rescue)
05:58<musca>it's a pain that the free drivers need non-free firmware
05:59<musca>it's packaged as firmware-linux-nonfree
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06:03<musca>[ 23.013] (WW) RADEON(0): Direct rendering disabled
06:03<musca>[ 23.013] (EE) RADEON(0): Acceleration initialization failed
06:03<qaz>I finnally got both working ufff...
06:03<qaz>libnss-mdns was corrupted on the client
06:03<jm_>yeah you need firmware for gnome
06:04<musca>Powermaniac: the good news is, you are running the free radeon driver.
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06:04<Powermaniac>So how do I install the non-free firmware?
06:04<qaz>tnx for all the help
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06:05<musca>Powermaniac: it's packaged as firmware-linux-nonfree
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06:06<Powermaniac>The reason I wanted it to all be open source is atleast then there is slightly more of a guarantee that it's I guess you could say secure. Not sure if that is the term I'm looking for.
06:06<musca>you need to enable the "contrib non-free" sections in your debian sources.
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06:16<Powermaniac>Okay so I just got the package from here:
06:16<Powermaniac>And installed it
06:16<Powermaniac>Now I assume I need to restart to get it to work?
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06:18<musca>probably, as the driver is in use.
06:18<Powermaniac>Okay before I restart I have another problem
06:19<Powermaniac>I'm trying to get this running: . Whole purpose of installing Debian actually.
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06:19<Powermaniac>But I keep getting thrown an error:
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06:20<Powermaniac>Any ideas on how to fix this?
06:20<jm_>check your sources.list file
06:21<Powermaniac>jm_: Where would that be located?
06:21<jm_>Powermaniac: man sources.list
06:21<jm_>I suppose you want this:
06:22<jm_>!tell Powermaniac about wheezy sources.list
06:22<Powermaniac>This is what is meant to happen according to the guys in #projectmeshnet:
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06:22<peter1138>sounds like you broke something, as you shouldn't've needed to manually download firmware-linux-nonfree
06:23<peter1138>or maybe it's pointing at a cd
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06:24<Powermaniac>Wait so my ATI Radeon 5870 should work with the open source drivers?
06:24<divyesh>kindly tell me does debian OS supports apache with mod_selinux
06:25<peter1138>Powermaniac, no, but after setting up sources.list correctly you could just "apt-get install firmware-linux-nonfree"
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06:25<peter1138>11:06 < musca> you need to enable the "contrib non-free" sections in your debian sources.
06:25<divyesh>kindly tell me does debian OS supports apache with mod_selinux
06:25<Powermaniac>jm_: So I opened the sources.list file is there anything in particular I do with it now. As it has given me a menu...
06:25<peter1138>you already asked that
06:26<jm_>Powermaniac: dpkg told you what to do with it
06:26<peter1138>a menu? hmm
06:27<Powermaniac>peter1138: It is a Software Sources menu.
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06:28<peter1138>sources.list is a text file
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06:28<peter1138>so i don't know menu you'd be kiijubg at]#
06:28<jm_>I think he's using synaptic or somesuch
06:28<peter1138>looking at
06:29<Powermaniac>Oh okay I opened it with gedit instead.
06:29<jm_>Powermaniac: just edit the file as root and modify at as per dpkg's instructions
06:29<peter1138>but: if you can't install build-essential, something is kinda wrong. maybe pastebin it somewhere?
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06:31<Powermaniac>That is what is currently in the sources.list file
06:31<peter1138>ubuntumozilla? o_O
06:31<Powermaniac>So delete all of it and add what dpkg said?
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06:32<Powermaniac>peter1138: That would be there from the way I decided to install Firefox. Had no idea what I was doing and just tried 1 or 2 methods and 1 worked so I left it there...
06:33<peter1138> < that's my sources list for wheezy
06:33<jm_>Powermaniac: comment out cdrom (line 5), uncomment line 8
06:33<peter1138>notice that it has security updates, which is rather important and somehow missing from yours
06:33<jm_>then run aptitude update
06:33-!-divyesh is now known as dik
06:33<Powermaniac>Thanks again, I really appreciate it!
06:33<peter1138>oh i didn't read the comments :)
06:34<dik> FrontPage
06:34<dik> RecentChanges
06:34<dik> FindPage
06:34<dik> HelpContents
06:34-!-_spOOn_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:34<dik> Immutable Page
06:34<dik> Info
06:34<dik> Attachments
06:34<dik> IRC
06:34<dik>Translation(s): English - Français - Italiano
06:34<dik> Contents
06:34<stdhell>dik: Stop it!
06:34<dik> Introduction
06:34<dik> Debian IRC channels
06:34<dik> See also
06:34<dik>IRC is used to get on-line Real Time Help.
06:34<dik>Read first:
06:34<dik>To connect, you need an IRC client.
06:34<dik>More information can be found on GettingHelpOnIrc. The channel has its own FAQ.
06:34<dik>Debian IRC channels
06:34<dik>The hostname is an alias for Most Debian IRC channels are on the OFTC IRC network:
06:34<dik> #alioth:
06:34<dik> #bash-completion:
06:34<dik> #debbugs:
06:34<dik> #debian: Meant for Debian users support. Any questions related to using Debian are welcome. See how to get useful help on IRC.
06:34<dik> #debian-68k:
06:34<dik> #debian-alpha:
06:34<dik> #debian-amd64:
06:34<dik> #debian-apache:
06:34<dik> #debian-apt:
06:34<wompa>!ops dik floods
06:34<dpkg>Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, ):, helix, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen: wompa complains about: dik floods
06:34<dik> #debian-ar:
06:35<dik> #debian-arm:
06:35<dik> #debian-au: Australian Debian users and developers chat
06:35<dik> #debian-avr32:
06:35<dik> #debian-backports:
06:35<dik> #debian-bluetooth:
06:35<dik> #debian-boinc: -
06:35<dik> #debian-boot: Meant for discussing the Debian Installer (and, occasionally, supporting users of it).
06:35<dik> #debian-br: for Lusophone. Por favor, use #debian-br para ajuda em português.
06:35<dik> #debian-bugs: Meant for discussing how to fix bugs. This channel is not for reporting bugs.
06:35<musca>Powermaniac: just wait a bit
06:35<dik> #debian-catalan: Debian en Català
06:35<dik> #debian-cd: Discussion about development of the debian-cd package and the production and distribution of official CD and DVD images.
06:35<dik> #debian-clamav:
06:35<dik> #debian-cli: Common Language Infrastructure (CLI) runtimes, apps & libs for Debian
06:35<dik> #debian-cloud:
06:35<dik> #debian-devel: Meant for discussions about the development of Debian. This channel is not a support channel. Asking support questions here is inappropriate.
06:35<dik> #debian-custom: - -
06:35<dik> German-language user channel, also developers.
06:35<dik> #debian-derivatives:
06:35<dik> #debian-desktop:
06:35<dik> #debian-devel-changes:
06:35-!-hub_ [] has joined #debian
06:35<dik> German developer channel. Used when is busy. Not a support channel.
06:35-!-Q-Master [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:35<dik> #debian-devel-es:
06:35<dik> #debian-devel-fr: French developer channel. Not a support channel.
06:35<dik> #debian-devel-it:
06:35<dik> #debian-dev-ref:
06:35<dik> #debian-dkms:
06:35<dik> #debian-doc:
06:35<dik> #debian-dpkg:
06:35<dik> #debian-ec2: (?)
06:35<dik> #debian-edu:
06:35<dik> #debian-eeepc:
06:35<dik> #debian-eeepc-devel:
06:35<dik> #debian-embedded:
06:35<dik> #debian-es: for Hispanophone. Hispanohablantes: Por favor usen #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda.
06:35<dik> #debian-fi:
06:35<dik> #debian-forensics:
06:35<dik> #debian-forums:
06:35<dik> #debian-forums-team:
06:35<dik> #debian-fr: for Francophone. Les personnes qui parlent francais mais peu ou pas anglais et qui ont besoin d'aide avec Debian peuvent demander sur #debian-fr.
06:36<dik> #debian-ftp:
06:36<dik> #debian-games:
06:36<dik> #debian-gis:
06:36<dik> #debian-glibc:
06:36<dik> #debian-gnome:
06:36<dik> #debian-gr: for Greek users. Για χρήστες που ομιλούν Ελληνικά κανάλι υποστήριξης
06:36<dik> #debian-gt:
06:36<dik> #debian-haskell:
06:36<dik> #debian-hn:
06:36<dik> #debian-hurd:
06:36<dik> #debian-i18n:
06:36<dik> #debian-ia64:
06:36<dik> #debian-id: Indonesian Debian Users
06:36<dik> #debian-ie: Irish Debian Users
06:36<dik> #debian-in: Indian Debian Users
06:36<dik> #debian-installer:
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06:36<dik> #debian-ipv6:
06:36<dik> #debian-irc: -
06:36<dik> #debian-it: for Italian speakers. Le persone che parlano italiano possono chiedere e ottenere aiuto in questo canale. it/IRC/debian-it.
06:36<dik> #debian-java:
06:36<dik> #debian-jr: -
06:36<dik> #debian-kbsd:
06:36<dik> #debian-kde: Support channel for KDE in Debian
06:36<dik> #debian-kernel:
06:36<dik> #debian-lists:
06:36<dik> #debian-live:
06:36<dik> #debian-med:
06:36<dik> #debian-meego:
06:36<dik> #debian-meeting: Meant for meetings and training sessions, see scheduled sessions or book the channel for a meeting on
06:36<dik> #debian-mentors: Meant for support for beginning developers. See also the debian-mentors mailing list.
06:36<ksk>!ops dik
06:36<dik> #debian-mentors-es:
06:36<dpkg>Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, ):, helix, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen: ksk complains about: dik
06:36<dik> #debian-mips:
06:36<dik> #debian-mirrors:
06:36<dik> #debian-mozext:
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06:36<dik> #debian-mozilla:
06:36<dik> #debian-multimedia:
06:36<dik> #debian-mx:
06:36<dik> #debian-mysql:
06:37<dik> #debian-newmaint: New Maintainer Process - -
06:37<dik> #debian-next: for users of testing or sid.
06:37<dik> #debian-nl: for dutch speakers. Voor ondersteuning in het Nederlands.
06:37<dik> #debian-nyc:
06:37<dik> #debian-ocaml: Packaging and development of OCaml-related stuff in Debian.
06:37<jm_>what a dik
06:37<dik> #debian-offtopic:
06:37<peter1138>half way there
06:37-!-mode/#debian [+o Maulkin] by ChanServ
06:37-!-mode/#debian [+b *!*@] by Maulkin
06:37-!-mode/#debian [-o Maulkin] by Maulkin
06:37<stdhell>Powermaniac: About line 12 in your sources.list... You might want to use instead. What you have now seems to suggest it's packages for Ubuntu, not Debian.
06:37<Powermaniac>stdhell: Oh okay thanks.
06:38<Powermaniac>Although now it's telling me I can't save the file as I don't have the permission to do so...
06:38<stdhell>Open the editor as root.
06:38<jm_>I told you to do it as root
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06:42<Powermaniac>Okay I think it is now working
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06:54<Powermaniac>So I changed line 12 to and now I get an error when trying to do aptitute update
06:54<Powermaniac>Just realised I hadn't changed that line then
06:55<jm_>go to in your browser to get correct sources.list entry
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06:55<Powermaniac>jm_: Okay!
06:55<Powermaniac>That is for Iceweasel though?
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06:56<voltagex>With the latest stable/testing installer, I'm getting SATA errors - resetting link, with an error code of DRDY and the machine eventually locks up
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06:57<OdyX>voltagex: Thinkpad ?
06:58<OdyX>voltagex: Violet
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06:59<OdyX>Meh, sorry.
06:59<OdyX>voltagex: ?
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07:00<voltagex>OdyX: no, but I'll be also using it on a Thinkpad
07:00<voltagex>OdyX: current machine is a desktop with an Asrock motherboard
07:01<voltagex>going to try libata.force=nohrst
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07:03<jm_>I was going to suggest using various libata options but I see you're already doing this - did it work with older kernels?
07:03<jm_>are you sure the disk is OK?
07:04<voltagex>disk *should* be OK, no issues in Windows and I think one of the ports is the blu ray drive
07:04<voltagex>I should try oldstable I guess?
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07:04<voltagex>I thought kernel 3.2 was OK but the current stable still had problems
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07:05<jm_>that's what stable has
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07:18<voltagex>jm_: still a complete freeze with libata set to noacpi and nohrst
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07:20<Powermaniac>Oh and thanks once more guys everything is sorted and working now!
07:20<jm_>voltagex: try disablig acpi and apic in general too
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07:26<musca>cool Powermaniac!
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07:28<wompa>too late :(
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07:29<musca>wompa: 4 hours of chatting was enough :)
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07:33<Argure>watch movie -> move laptop slightly -> receive kernel panic at random intervals
07:34<Argure>seriously, wat.
07:34<stdhell>Fix: Don't move your laptop while you're watching movies...
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07:35<stdhell>More seriously: Run a memtest.
07:35<Argure>I just installed rsyslog to see what happens if I can reproduce it
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07:36<stdhell>If you get a kernel panic, the system might not have time to log anything.
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07:40<bullgard4>[wheezy] /usr/share/doc/ linux-doc-3.2/html/reguator/ includes a file »API-regulator-count-voltages.html«. What kind of regulator is meant here?
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07:46<jm_>bullgard4: it's a kernel API, this particular one is for voltage regulators
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07:53<john>Alguem aqui ?
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07:59<litb>hello all
07:59<litb>I installed the package "ia32-libs" some times ago on my wheezy system. now we try to install the same package on another colleagues' wheezy system
07:59<litb>but APT always complains about that it depends on the package ia32-libs-i386, which is not installed. but installing it fails because it says "E: Package 'ia32-libs-i386' has no installation candidate"
08:02<dpkg>Multiarch allows you to install foreign architecture packages. For example, to allow i386 packages to be installed on an amd64 system: «dpkg --add-architecture i386 && apt-get update». See and <multiarch howto>, <multiarch failures>. For the unrelated installer that can install i386 or amd64, see <multi-arch installer>.
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08:03<jm_>both of those are transitional packages AFAIK
08:04<stdhell>You probably don't need all the packages ia32-libs-i386 depends on. Just pick the ones you need.
08:04<litb>jm_: am I right in assuming that transitional packages are another name for obsolete packages?
08:04<litb>because now with those multiarch packages you can just install the "real" libs for the respective architecture?
08:04<jm_>litb: they are there to help with upgrades, see apt-cache show ia32-libs-i386 and you'll see what would really be installed
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08:06<litb>jm_: ah. so ia32-libs is just some kind of "meta package" that has as dependency something called "ia32-libs-i386" ?
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08:07<jm_>litb: indeed, because ia32-libs was used in squeeze to achieve this (no multi-arch there)
08:07<litb>jm_: but why does it say "Package 'ia32-libs-i386' has no installation candidate"? from what I read, that happens when there are names in the "apt-get update"-ed database that are now not functional anymore, right?
08:07<stdhell>Did you do a "dpkg --add-architecture i386 && apt-get update" like dpkg said?
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08:08<jm_>litb: did you configure multi-arch (what stdhell said)?
08:08<jm_>litb: Filename: pool/main/i/ia32-libs/ia32-libs-i386_0.4_i386.deb
08:08<jm_>note i386
08:08<litb>jm_: my colleague is secretly listening to this discussion and will try those commands in parallel. let's see...
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08:10<jg>hi jm_, stdhell, thanks for your input - trying it right now
08:10<jm_>no worries
08:10<litb>jm_: ah I see. so the ia32-libs package is in the transitional "meta" package and as a dependency simply has a package that is also in the main repository, but using the i386 architecture. and we get the error because we haven't "enabled" that architecture.
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08:11<jm_>litb: yeah, should work now
08:11<jg>yes, 60MB of fresh packages downloading right now
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08:11<litb>lulz, nice :)
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08:11<stdhell>As I said, you probably don't need _all_ of those...
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08:11<stdhell>But 60MB... Whatever...
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08:12<jg>probably yes, but the ia32(,,,) seems to depend on them
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08:13<jm_>for convenience yeah
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08:13<litb>jm_: ah the main problem was we missed libssl. so i guess we could just have installed libssl and told apt-get we want the i386 package?
08:14<wompa>Do you really need ia32libs when you enable multiarch?
08:15<litb>!multiarch howto
08:15<dpkg>i heard multiarch howto is
08:15<babilen>no, it is merely a metapackage that pulls in the respective i386 libraries. It is the "sledgehammer" method to installing dependencies.
08:15<jm_>litb: sure, you can say apt* install foo:i386
08:15<litb>jm_: ah neat
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08:19<jg>thanks jm_ litb SBauer, works now :)
08:19<jg>ah, stdhell, forgot you. Thanks :)
08:20<stdhell>Probably just a tab-completion gone wrong. :-)
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08:21<mbaragiola>hello, I'm trying to link my project with sqlite3 using sqlite3.h (I have installed packages sqlite3 libsqlite3 libsqlite3-dev libsqlite0 libsqlite0-dev etc)
08:21<mbaragiola>but gcc says that sqlite3_open and all other sqlite3_* methods are undefined
08:22<mbaragiola>am I missing a gcc flag or something?
08:22<stdhell>-lsqlite3 ?
08:23<mbaragiola>...and that was it
08:23<mbaragiola>that was silly. Thanks
08:23<stdhell>No problem.
08:24<mbaragiola>why isn't #include <sqlite3.h> enough?
08:24<bullgard4>jm_: Can you tell me where I can find meta data of the document ? The dcument proper does not even include a date of manufacture.
08:24<stdhell>sqlite3.h is just the prototypes and various definitions. The real action takes place in the library, libsqlite3.a
08:24<jm_>mbaragiola: your error was reported by linker, not by compiler
08:25<jm_>bullgard4: I don't understand what exactly you want to find
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08:26<bullgard4>jm_: I'd like to find when the document was made, who made it, who is the intended audience, what is its legal status, what was the document made for?
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08:28<jm_>bullgard4: anyone can generate it using 'make htmldocs' from kernel tree ...
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08:29<bullgard4>I see.
08:29<jm_>bullgard4: so no, I can't tell you how to get the data for documents, http headers suggest it was created on aug 18th but I suspect it's a cron job or somesuch
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08:36<jm_>being a kernel API it's obviously intended for anyone developing a driver that needs that stuff
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10:00<OpenCast>hey guys iam new here i don't know what is going on
10:00<devil_>OpenCast: nothing, as long asyou do not ask a question
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10:01<wompa>My IGP seems slow for Xfce, it's K8M800, I'm using xserver-xorg-video-openchrome, is there some (non-free) alternative I can try?
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10:02<OpenCast>Ok devil_ may i get the active topic
10:02<wompa>OpenCast, yes, type /topic
10:02<devil_>OpenCast: this is a debian support channel. so debian is the topic
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10:02<OpenCast>Ok wompa thanks
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10:08<txt-file>wompa: check if compositing is enabled
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10:12<txt-file>wompa: can you please pastebin the output of lspci?
10:13<TobiX>wompa: VIA has some 32-bit binary blobs for some IGPs...
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10:19<wompa>txt-file, it wasn't enabled
10:21<wompa>TobiX, are there some blobs in Debian repos?
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10:23<txt-file>I don't think so
10:23<txt-file>but found a bug
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10:24<TobiX>No, the aren't, you have to use either openchrome or click through the stupid selector on :(
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10:25<TobiX>wompa: Do you have a /var/log/Xorg.0.log with openchrome? lspci isn't detailed enough for most IGP chipsets...
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10:36<Chav>Anyone here running Debian 7 in VirtualBox?
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10:37<dpkg>Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
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10:39<Chav>Ok. Is it feasible to get Debian 7 to run, stripped down to basics, in a VirtualBox VM stored on a 2GB flash drive?
10:39<Chav>It's to be used as a Certificate Authority.
10:39<Chav>I'd rather it had a GUI.
10:40<txt-file>wompa: you have an error on line 768 and following
10:41<txt-file>Chav: it is possible to strip debian even under 1GB without GUI
10:41<Chav>txt-file: I'd rather keep the GUI. Which installer would I use to enable this?
10:42<f8l>I have a Debian-based live-pendrive, which takes ~130M.
10:43<Chav>f8l: I already run Debian on a pen drive, persistently, without a GUI. I know that can be done. I just need to know if it can be done with a GUI, and which installer to use.
10:43<txt-file>wompa: do you have libgl1-mesa-dri installed? it has at least the second missing file
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10:44<peter1138>Chav, which gui do you want?
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10:44<f8l>Chav: If you want to keep it light, install the base system and then get a window manager or a lightweight DE like LXDE.
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10:45<wompa>txt-file, well spotted. No, I didn't, installing now
10:45<Chav>peter1138, f8l : I've never used any Linux GUI (except Ubuntu, once or twice). I've only used the CLI. Just so long as it works, and I can keep the whole thing on a 2GB flash drive, I'm happy.
10:46<txt-file>wompa: weird … xorg depends on it
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10:48<wompa>txt-file, I don't install recommends and it seems to be just recommended by xserver-xorg-core
10:50<txt-file>sounds reasonable
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10:53<f8l>Chav: There are CDs for GNOME, KDE, Xfce and LXDE. I'd go for LXDE or no DE at all. A window manager (there are plenty to choose from) is all you need if you're accustomed to using CLI.
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10:56<peter1138>i ubuntu a linux gui?
10:56<txt-file>peter1138: no
10:57<txt-file>peter1138: ubuntu is a linux distribution
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10:58<Chav>peter1138: lol, I wasn't trying to imply Ubuntu is a "Linux GUI", merely that it's the only Linux I've used with a GUI.
10:58<TobiX>wompa: Well, GL support is not very good for VIA UniChrome last time I checked...
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10:58<wompa>I just need decent 2d
10:59<practicedreice>can someone help me get my sound working?
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10:59<txt-file>wompa: if you are experienced enought I would recommend to try a newer driver version
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11:00<TobiX>wompa: Well then you can at least ignore all GLX/GL/dri errors in Xorg.log...
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11:00<txt-file>tell practicedreice about anyone
11:00<txt-file>!tell practicedreice about anyone
11:01<TobiX>wompa: looks like your hardware is supported...
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11:02<TobiX>wompa: "'ve never seen a K8M/N800 with a functional display interrupt, so vsync will not be useable and EXA acceleration may be slightly less responsive."
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11:03<Chav>Where can I download Debian 6 now that 7 is out? The website keeps directing me to images etc for 7.
11:04<txt-file>I still wonder about the first error … the file was available on squeeze and is gone since wheezy
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11:04<Chav>ixi: Thanks
11:04<txt-file>Chav why do you want to use squeeze?
11:04<gsimmons>txt-file: It's a DRI1 driver that was removed prior to Mesa 8 (bug #676634).
11:04<Chav>txt-file: Debian 7 doesn't seem to have any official support in the VMMs yet.
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11:05<ixi>Chav what kind of 'support' specifically do you have in mind?
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11:06<Chav>TobiX: Virtual Machine Managers? Parallels, VMware Fusion, VirtualBox
11:06<Chav>ixi: Just some solid info that it runs stably would do.
11:06<TobiX>Chav: I have Debian 7 running on VirtualBox, VMWare, KVM. Is that enough?
11:06<txt-file>gsimmons: thanks … but then it should never be loaded IMHO
11:06<babilen>Xen too fwiw
11:06<TobiX>Chav: Why shouldn't it?
11:07<ixi>Chav virtualbox and vmware work 100%
11:07<ixi>not sure wth parallels is
11:07<Chav>TobiX: lol, perfect. I asked on the vbox channel, no response, and the vbox website only lists Deb 6
11:07<babilen>As does Xen and KVM (if you want somethign "real" ;)
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11:07<Chav>TobiX: I don't know everything. Who knows why things stop working? Sometimes they just do.
11:07<TobiX>Chav: The packaged VirtualBox extensions even work with the current VirtualBox version.
11:07<gsimmons>txt-file: Yes, I imagine that's corrected in later openchrome xorg driver versions.
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11:08<Chav>ixi: Parallels Desktop:
11:08<golrrr>hello !
11:08<txt-file>gsimmons: sounds reasonable
11:09<practicedreice>how do I get sound working?
11:09<txt-file>wompa: btw: did anything change since you installed libgl1-mesa-dri?
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11:11<txt-file>Vikinger: please stop renaming … it is disturbing
11:11<Vikinger>i think im done now
11:11<ksk>txt-file: you could make your client hide this stuff
11:12<Vikinger>sorry about that
11:12<Thorgrin>hello. I'm trying to figure out how to allow remote users to use git-shell and chrooted sftp together. Does anybody have any advice?
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11:12<Chav>practicedreice: you'll have to offer more information. What's your hardware? Is this a new install? What have you done so far? etc.
11:12<wompa>txt-file, yeah I think it got slightly more responsive and my terminal seems to always redraw correctly now when changing windows back and forth
11:13<txt-file>ksk: it hides it but only if someone did not speak in the last 10min
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11:13<txt-file>wompa: sounds good …
11:14<practicedreice>This is a new install and my hardware is Realtek ALC887-VD, I have only just updated
11:14<Chav>TobiX: based on your experience, am I going to be able to install/run Debian 7 LXDE from a 2GB flash drive using either VMware or Virtualbox?
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11:17<golrrr>hello !
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11:17<TobiX>Chav: Yes. I made LXDE based Debian live systems with about ~1GB (those were with a complete development environment for cross-compilation)
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11:18<Chav>TobiX: Excellent! Thanks mate.
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11:19<zumbi>TobiX: ooi, which cross tools did you pick?
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11:20<TobiX>zumbi: It was a custom stm32 toolchain, see and
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11:21<zumbi>TobiX: for bare-metal?
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11:22<TobiX>zumbi: Yes. You don't want Linux on a Cortex-M3 ;) (aka. I would be quite impressed if someone ported Linux to it)
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11:23<zumbi>TobiX: has been alredy done
11:23<TobiX>zumbi: If you want to know more, we should move to #debian-offtopic :)
11:23<wompa>txt-file, TobiX, thanks for the help and info
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11:23<zumbi>TobiX: how is that offtopic?
11:24<TobiX>Well... Bare-metal toolchains are probably not relevant to Debain as a whole ;)
11:24<TobiX>zumbi: There is a Linux port to Cortex-M3?
11:24<txt-file>wompa: no problem … I also learned a few new things j)
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11:26<zumbi>TobiX: those are relevant, there has been discussion on integrating them
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11:27<TobiX>zumbi: Those ARM people are crazy: ...
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11:30<zumbi>TobiX: that might be offtopic here...
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11:32<TobiX>zumbi: Oh well, there was Linux on the Nintendo DS...
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11:33<user_bdcoder>hello .. ?
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11:35<user_bdcoder>hello michael ..
11:35<michael_>I have a DNS question: what's the simplest way to set up dns for my local network names?
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11:36<michael_>I used to run a local instance of bind, but that machine has just dropped dead, and I suspect that's too complicated a way to do it...
11:36<user_bdcoder>are you using debian ?
11:36<michael_>I was
11:36<michael_>This machine, my backup, is LXDE at the moment
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11:36<michael_>lubuntu I mean
11:36<zumbi>TobiX: Nintendo DS was is more powerful chip than M3
11:37<michael_>Things are not as I'm used to: just discovered resolvconf doing things...
11:37<michael_>Am I in the wrong channel?
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11:37<wompa>michael_, for Lubuntu, yes, but if you change to Debian you may get some suggestions, which may or may not also work in Lubuntu
11:37<user_bdcoder>did you use bind9 ?
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11:38<michael_>user_bdcoder, I think so
11:38<michael_>Let's pretend I'm on debian until it doesn't work and one of us gives up ;)
11:38<TobiX>michael_: dnsmasq is quite simple to set up
11:39<michael_>I've got my old config files for bind9 somewhere, I can set that up again, but was wondering if that's the most sensible way to go
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11:39*michael_ goes google dnsmasq
11:39<michael_>The Wikipedia entry sounds just the ticket, thanks TobiX
11:40<user_bdcoder>are you having problem with your config or just want to re configure it ?
11:41<michael_>I have to start again. Offending machine died, the appropriate configuration files are *ancient*, time to think again
11:41<michael_>Have to say that dnsmasq sounds just the ticket, as I'll have to set up my DHCP server again as well
11:41<wompa>michael_, how ancient? Squeeze? Lenny?
11:42<scientes>dnsmasq is the shit
11:42*michael_ hopes that;s a good think ;)
11:42<wompa>That's barely retro ;)
11:42<michael_> s/;/'/;s/k/g/
11:43<user_bdcoder>if i suggest you a article about bind9 would you consider reading it .. that might solve your problem in new mechine
11:43<michael_>Yes, please
11:43<michael_>I'll then go away and get some exercise and do some stuff and probably come back again in a bit
11:44<user_bdcoder>Its a good article ...
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11:44<michael_>user_bdcoder, do you have anything against dnsmasq? However, I guess bind9 is venerable, well supported and works
11:44<user_bdcoder>what do you think ?
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11:45<michael_>Well, I do have all the zone files already, so I've done most of the hard work
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11:45<user_bdcoder>well bind9 works gud for me ...
11:46<wompa>I would probably just copy them before trying to setup dnsmasq instead
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11:46<michael_>While I'm here ... which mail server is recommended? I was running exim (though it did get rooted some while back). Alas, have to set that up again :( Same story, got lazy about backing up /etc :'(
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11:48<wompa>michael_, can't you just move the drive to the newer computer?
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11:50<michael_>PATA drive, I'm afraid
11:50<peter1138>exim is default on debian iirc
11:50<michael_>I did have a PATA->SATA adapter once upon a time, but I binned it recently
11:50<peter1138>i still stick with postfix though
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11:51<michael_>I seem to remember that when I was looking at setting up SE linux profiles there were working profiles for postfix but not for exim
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11:54<Guoz>all of a sudden I have question, What can I learn from linux and/or debian? Setting my MBP as a server isn't necessary, but I just want to run it on text-based interface than X.
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11:55<wompa>MBP is Mac Book Pro?
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13:14<trico>deb testing main <- this line puts me on the testing version right?
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13:15<txt-file>trico: shure
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13:17<trico>deb testing/updates main <- this doesnt work, what should it be?
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13:18<txt-file>testing does not receive such updates
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13:19<kevix>trico: add a 'deb' and/or 'deb-src' line makes it available. you'd have to apt-get update and apt-get upgrade or similar to install packages that would be from testing
13:20<trico>thats what im doing, some of the lines are getting a 404 error
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13:20<kevix>txt-file: are you aware of the debian packges streams and how they are updated?
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13:20<txt-file>kevix: I do not understand your question?
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13:21<kevix>txt-file: you said 'testing does not get much updates' but there is a reason for that.
13:21<trico>deb testing main <- ok, just this and the deb-src line
13:21<kevix>knowing the reason is important.
13:21<txt-file>kevix: as far as I am informed testing does not receive security updates
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13:22<kevix>txt-file: that is usually the case.
13:22<trico>testing is always just rolling, right?
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13:23<kevix>there is a proposal to make CUT (constantly useable testing) but 'testing' is not constantly usable all the time.
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13:24<trico>makes sense. why send patches you know break somethnig? or are you referring to patches that are later determined to break something not being reverted?
13:24<kevix>do you know where patches go in debian?
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13:25<trico>the updates repo?
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13:26<kevix>with a few expections, bugfixes go to the source package and the new binary packages goes to unstable.
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13:27<trico>then it gets to testing how?
13:27<kevix>after 10 days, the unstable binary moves to testing (if its a good packages)
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13:28<kevix>there is a suite of software called DAK, that uses a program called 'britney' and it makes a decision if it goes to testing.
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13:29<kevix>so while unstable gets many updates, testing gets updates from unstable of 'good' software.
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13:30<kevix>and after 2 yrs, all the 'good' software in testing gets some work and then becomes 'stable'
13:31<abrotman>there is no time frame
13:31<abrotman>it'swhen RC bugs are 0
13:31<abrotman>it could be 9 months, or 4 years
13:31<trico>how does britney decide? few bugs? list of important packages?
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13:37<petrol91>Hi again, ive copied harddrive over ethernet with 8MB/s :)
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13:38<chealer>well, close to 0 anyway :-)
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13:39<petrol91>I've changed computer, and now ive got eth1 and wlan1 instead of eth0 wlan0
13:39*chealer will like to see 1000 RC bugs fixed in 9 months
13:40<chealer>trico: see
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13:43<roughnecks>petrol91: i think you may want to edit (or delete and reboot) your /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules
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13:44<roadisup>hi! :)
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13:46<petrol91>roughnecks: thx
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13:51<evgenius123_>hi all
13:51<evgenius123_>can you help me with scanner drivers?
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13:53<evgenius123_>scanner HP scanjet G3110
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13:59<roadisup>evgenius123: Have you installed sane-backends?
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14:00<txt-file>roadisup: he left
14:00<roadisup>txt-file: Ah yes, thanks :P
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14:01<badsuperblock>hi, talking bout scanners?
14:01<badsuperblock>I just remembered i had a problem with mine
14:02<badsuperblock>i can only scan as root
14:02<badsuperblock>sane-find-scanner finds it
14:02<badsuperblock>but when i run xsane or simple-scan it complains "no scanner found"
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14:02<badsuperblock>I am in the "scanner" group obviously
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14:03*badsuperblock reading
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14:04<kevix>abrotman: I was giving the general time (18-24 mo) but obviously the release managaers have the final say
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14:05<badsuperblock>> SANE comes with udev and hotplug scripts in the directory tools/udev and tools/hotplug. They can be used for setting permissions,
14:06<badsuperblock>looks good, thanks roadisup. will try this asap (I dont have that scanner atm). fore reference its a brother DCP-331
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14:07<roadisup>badsuperblock: Try setting permissions via chmod to see if it works, that will be reset after a reboot and you can use the tools to set it permanently. Np :)
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14:29<grove>Last time I bought a new motherboard+processor, I ended up with a combo where neither network or graphics was supported in stable (squeeze at the time), but needed a kernel from backports. Now I need a new combo again, and want to at least be prepared. - I'm almost certainly going for Intel, and would like to stay on Wheezy (but a kernel from backports is acceptable) so is there anything other than network and graphics I should be aware of?
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14:37<mshuler>grove: those are the big concerns usually - my personal h/w buying trend is to skip the latest, greatest whatever.. and stick to one revision back - it's usually on sale, too :)
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14:38<kevix>grove: well, those 2 items are the most common cause of compatiblity problems
14:39<kevix>grove: if you create a live(cd/dvd/usb) to test it, that is one possibility
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14:39<mshuler>kevix: that can be difficult with buying components online ;)
14:40<chealer>grove: unlikely, but it's best to do some research on GNU/Linux and the motherboard considered.
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14:43<kevix>mshuler: yeah, that's one disadvange
14:44<kevix>mshuler: I think places like NewEgg have comments/reviews about compatibility?
14:45<mshuler>mshuler: a lot of times there will be comments about linux on newegg, yes
14:45<mshuler>kevix: ^
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15:01<trico>whats the package that auto completes commands and package names?
15:01<captnfab>trico: with bash, it's bash-completion
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15:01<captnfab>you have to load it with ". /etc/bash_completion" either manually or in the bashrc
15:02<trico>i already have that
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15:02<kevix>on the next reboot, it would have parsed the file and activtited it.
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15:03<trico>is there a reason its disabled for root?
15:03<kevix>I'd guess security and making it easier to make a mistake?
15:03<captnfab>it's not "disabled" it's "not enabled by default" :)
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15:04<captnfab>I'd say security too
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15:04<kevix>captnfab: that makes sense but as with Freesoftware you can customize it
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15:04<trico>cant remove packages i dont know the exact name of, but i dont think that makes my computer more secure
15:04<captnfab>completion scripts are run as root, this could be a problem
15:05<trico>imo interfering with package management is the problem
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15:05<kevix>trico: dpkg -l| grep what-is-its-name
15:05<captnfab>trico: there is no interference
15:05<captnfab>plus you can enable it
15:05<captnfab>so I don't see your point
15:05<kevix>Debian makes 'sane defaults'
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15:05<trico>touch ~/.bash_completion will do it?
15:06<captnfab>trico: you have to load it with ". /etc/bash_completion" either manually or in the bashrc
15:06<kevix>touch != source
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15:07<trico>source .bash_completion?
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15:07<trico>is there a link?
15:07<lastra>ciao a tutti qualcuno sa come abilitare l'accelerazione 3d con wheezy su un eeepc?con squeeze funzionava ma ora niente...
15:08<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
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15:09<captnfab>trico: . /etc/bash_completion
15:09<captnfab>I wont write it a 4th time
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15:09<arcus>can anyone help with an fs problem?
15:09<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
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15:10<yashwant>i have a smb software in my system but it is not recognizing in my terminal. why?
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15:10<arcus>cool am looking for a program/package that will format a hd partition to reiserfs
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15:12<captnfab>arcus: it's mkfs.reiser in reiserfsprogs (or mkfs.reiser4 in reiser4progs)
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15:12<captnfab>depending on which version of the FS you want to use
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15:13<arcus>i'd hope the latest non-testing would be stable/r
15:14<kevix>arcus: there are various versions of mkfs: mkfs.reiser, mkfs.ext2, etc.
15:14<yashwant>any one help me why command is not recognizing smb command in terminal?
15:15<kevix>yashwant: can you provide the entire command?
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15:15<arcus>is for the old discrete /var partition job. kevix:where can i find them?
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15:16<arcus><yashwant>: which shell are you using?
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15:16<kevix>arcus: you want to format a partition that you will use for /var?
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15:16<arcus>yes, thats the plan
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15:17<yashwant>kevix: /bin/bash
15:17<kevix>arcus: the mkfs commands are in /sbin/
15:18<kevix>arcus: try 'whereis mkfs'
15:18<yashwant>arcus: simply smb and man smb is not working .
15:18<yashwant>in service smb is showing.
15:19<arcus><yashwant> just wondering, i've been stumped in the past when using different distros sometimes the default shell switches on you, wasted 4 hrs of my life typing in the wrong commands. lol, bash is my weapon of choice tho.
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15:19<kevix>yashwant: the command 'smb' is not part of debian.
15:20-!-ajed [~axemurder@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:20<kevix>or 'apt-file search bin/smb' cant find it.
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15:21<kevix>arcus: you can make a 'script file' that has "#!/bin/bash" as its first line
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15:23<captnfab>yashwant: what are you trying to do? :)
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15:24<yashwant>captnfab: I don't know how to use smb just i am learning , so i tried man smb, its not display manual.
15:25<captnfab>yashwant: try smbclient
15:25<kevix>yashwant: did you see what I wrote?
15:25<captnfab>you can install it with apt-get install smbclient and then read man smbclient
15:25<yashwant>kevix: yes i got it..
15:26<yashwant>smbcline tis working.
15:26<kevix>it sounds like you want to use samba to access some remote file system.
15:26<arcus><kevix> that would work but there is no os on the machine, yet i'm prepping the hd for install using live usb. i have everything else in place but i really want to try the reiserfs after the buzz about the high copy/ low mount speeds, seems like it would be perfect for /var.
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15:27<yashwant>kevix: If u know then help me I am configuring static ip in my system but it is conflicting to the ethernet internet, and my static ip is not working.
15:28<kevix>could you be using an already used IP address (a duplicate)?
15:29<kevix>I know what you wanted to do but I've never used that.
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15:33<Guest4082>Hey if ur Video Memory was to low for Games would it Hog ur RAM up alot?
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15:34<arcus><Guest4082> which gpu are you using?
15:34<Guest4082>AMD for now it has 128 MB of Video memory
15:34<arcus>What about the spec on ur machine?
15:35<Guest4082>1.6 GHZ processor... 4 GB Ram
15:35<Guest4082>and im usin Ubuntu 13.04
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15:36<arcus>amd did do a hybrid thing for a while so yes it prob will.
15:36<arcus>have u got steam?
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15:36<Guest4082>ok =) and no some Games it cant even play like Moon Breakers
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15:37<arcus>do you know the mb specs?
15:37<Guest4082>of My Video memory?
15:37<Guest4082>very low specs are needed it prob 1 of the lowest detailed games
15:37<arcus>no sorry the motherboard
15:38<Guest4082>no sorry
15:38<Guest4082>well i can tell ya my cerial number for the Computer
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15:39<arcus>i would recommend getting a new video card, you could pick up a ati hd 5450 for about $40
15:39<arcus>but you'd need to know if it were agp or pcie
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15:40<Guest4082>Is ATI radion express 200 better then 128 MB?
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15:40<arcus>a hd5450 can run mass effect on high spec well, and you can quote me on that. and yes it's 1gb and will use system memory up to 2gb
15:41<arcus>pcie is a physical connection so i'd tack a look at the inside of ur box befor purchase
15:41<Guest4082>Is Wine Slow on games?
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15:42<arcus>you shouldn't really need it have you downloaded steam?
15:42<Guest4082>yup i have 2 PCI express and 1x PCI and 16x PCi
15:42<Guest4082>not yet
15:43<Guest4082>is AMD or Intel good for gaming?
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15:43<arcus>good then you could box above the weight of a hd5450 you could get a hd7870 for about $200 that will run most anything ecxept maybe crysis3
15:44<Guest4082>lol danit
15:44<arcus>for cpu?
15:44<Guest4082>yes CPU
15:44<arcus>ongoing arguement
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15:45<arcus>its basically price (intel-high) (amd-low) vs benchmarks
15:45<Guest4082>i c
15:46<Guest4082>i have a faster CPU intel computer but the RAM sucks lol
15:46<Guest4082>3.06 GHZ
15:46<Guest4082>800 MB RAM lolz
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15:46<arcus>the i7's bench higher but amd's fx series are not far behind when it comes to the 6 and 8 core cpus
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15:48<arcus>i have an 8 core amd, but the to be honest most games will only use 4 cores and most of it goes on the gpu.
15:48<Guest4082>nice lol i have 4 CPu and FSB in the other computer
15:48<arcus>it is a desktop computer?
15:48<Guest4082>yes both r
15:49<arcus>have you ever built a computer?
15:49<arcus>from scratch?
15:49<Guest4082>been workin on my other 1 but yes i do alot of editing and stuff but not from scratch
15:50<Guest4082>i know how to do it though
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15:51<arcus>so which computer has 800mb of ram, and do you know the cpu?
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15:52<Guest4082>the older 1 i been building
15:52<pmart>id(1) info page claims it shows both real and effective uid if they're different, yet when i su to root and run `id -ur' the output is "0". why is that?
15:52<Guest4082>and it has 3.06 GHZ and 4 CPU's
15:52<Guest4082>just need more RAM i might be set not sure
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15:53<arcus>4 physical or cores?
15:53<pmart>su command changes effective uid, right? so now effective != real and id should show both
15:53<Guest4082>1 FSB
15:53<Guest4082>(front side Bus
15:53<arcus>is it 64 bit?
15:54<arcus>or 32?
15:54<Guest4082>64 bit
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15:54<Guest4082>DDR 1 RAM slots thats prob the only little down fall but its still pretty good
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15:55<arcus>the problem you might have is sometimes when they stop producing a type of ram it increases in price.
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15:56<arcus>to kit out my old athlon 32 bit with 4gb of ram it would cost about 120 the same as my new build ddr3 with 32gb
15:56<Guest4082>only 80$ for 2,,, 4 GB ram which last time i know it was the highest for DDr1
15:57<arcus>yeah it was made in the days of 32bit oses and 2^32= 406---whatever. max ram the os could use
15:58<Guest4082>would Linux get alot a little more better on Gaming performace by 14.04 LTS ubuntu?
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16:00<arcus>honestly if the gui becomes more demanding it's probably not going to be good for your machine but if you bang in a new gpu it will be fine.
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16:00<arcus>hell you can have my hd5450 when i get a new gpu.
16:00<Guest4082>holy crap really?
16:01<Guest4082>how much u sellin it for?
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16:03<arcus>am not you can have it just get it to where you are.
16:03<arcus>brb cig break
16:03<roughnecks>arcus abd Guest4082, you're really off-topic here
16:03<Guest4082>well my bad then bro ham
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16:06<arcus>and i'm bk, about ur previos question about wine, i wouldn't bother
16:06<EmleyMoor>Is there a good place for DOSBox help? If not, can anyone here advise? When I try to run Prince of Persia, detail of my joystick position is printed continuously... this disturbs the screen. What can I do about it?
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16:07<Guest4082>well if u want to u can Add me at Face book if u have 1?
16:07<arcus><EmleyMoor><Guest4082> if your machines can handle it use a virtual machine
16:09<arcus>this allows you to run windows and windows software inside ur linux distros
16:09<Guest4082>i dont use Windows at all
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16:10<EmleyMoor>arcus: That would probably make things more difficult in my case
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16:11<arcus>ah a purist, love it, but the sad truth is any games are usually released in windows first (if any linux)
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16:11<arcus><EmleyMoor> how so?
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16:11<roughnecks>!tell EmleyMoor about dosbox
16:12<EmleyMoor>This is an old DOS game anyway... DOSBox was always fine for it in the past... and I don't know what hope there is of getting a VM running DOS to accept my joystick
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16:12<arcus>is ther a wiki?
16:12<arcus>usually a good source of info.
16:12<arcus><Guest4082> am on the fb thing
16:13<pmart>!tell me about dosbox
16:13-!-Guest4086 [~Sam@2001:470:1f07:57:7c5b:11df:b68:7d6a] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:13<pmart>wow, i'm symlinked to "me", nice
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16:14<EmleyMoor>If someone does !tell me, the bot does so - no matter who it is. Better to /msg the bot, though
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16:15<arcus><EmleyMoor> which dos game?
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16:19<pmart>i'm curious about what happens after !tell everyone about dosbox, though
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16:21<Guest4082>arcus: whats ur email? if u want to add me?
16:22<arcus>for security do you want my fb e-mail?
16:23<Guest4082>sure if u want... my Email u can look me up By is
16:23<Guest4082>im Daryl
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16:24<arcus>already sent u an fb mess. mine is
16:24<arcus>i'm marcus
16:25<Guest4082>nice to meet ya Bro ham
16:25<ichdasich>er... ECHAN, sry.
16:25<arcus>you too. thats hooked up to my wackberry so if you need help let me know.
16:26<Guest4082>yes sir
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16:26<arcus>on a smoke break brb
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16:30<arcus>and am back
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16:31<darkangel_>brb gotta reboot for Switching my swappiness thing
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16:32<arcus>anyone got any good hardware?
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16:34<ferryman>Evening. I am in the middle of my install of debian wheezy i386 on eeepc 701 4g. I am at the stage of adding Lilo or Grub. Do I need these bootloaders or do I skip those pages? Any advice please.
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16:37<arcus>i would still install grub
16:38<arcus>are you dual booting, using uefi or mbr am guessing mbr..
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16:39<mshuler>ferryman: I would use grub, too - btw, not sure if you found - some of the info is out of date, so if you are feeling up to it, some more current info would be appreciated by others, since it will be fresh in your mind :)
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16:41<arcus><darkangel> am wondering what a "swappiness thing" is?
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16:49<ferryman>mshuler: I am a newbie but if I can add something I will contribute if possible.
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16:51<mshuler>ferryman: documentation is a great way to help!
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17:08<digitsm2>Hello, I was here yesterday asking about $PATH, but I forgot the answer
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17:09<bigjust>digitsm2: gimmie a sec, i'll look through my logs
17:09<digitsm2>When I enter "$PATH" I see that "/usr/sbin" is not there. How could I add "usr/sbin" permanently to the global $PATH? Thank you
17:10<digitsm2>bigjust, I remember something about /etc/profile, but I'm not sure about it
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17:11<bigjust>hmmm, apparently i don't log this server :(
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17:11<digitsm2>bigjust, no problem. Plus I was here before with username digitsm (from my other computer)
17:11<musca>grep PATH .profile
17:12<kevix>if you use bash, $HOME/.bashrc would one place to put it, or .profile
17:12<kevix>and 'man bash' for info
17:13<musca>/etc/profile will be for all users on your system.
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17:18<Chav>Hey. So, I screwed up my Debian 7.1 LXDE install and don't have the GUI. How do I install it now?
17:18<digitsm2>musca: I have my /etc/profile open. There is an 'if' which determines which PATH must be. I realized that my PATH is the one in else block, but I can't understand why that if statement has run the else block?
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17:20<mshuler>Chav: 'apt-get install task-lxde-desktop' should work :)
17:20<digitsm2>musca, And which block (then, or else) should I change? Should I add "PATH=PATH:/usr/sbin" at the end of /etc/profile anyway?
17:20<Chav>mshuler: Thanks. :)
17:22<kevix>Chav: what is this thing you call a GUI??! I use vim & links2 :)
17:22<digitsm2>musca, I found out that if statement checks whether I'm root or not and sets PATH based on that
17:22<musca>digitsm2: if 'id -u' equals 0 then you are the superuser "root"
17:23<Chav>kevix: lol, my other car is a porsche, but sometimes you're better off with a ford focus...
17:24<kevix>Chav: it useful to know the CLI and TUI when this happens (which is not an option onf Windoze)
17:24<digitsm2>musca, If I'm superuser then my PATH contains /usr/bin. Seems it's correct, I must only do a 'su' ;-)
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17:24<Chav>kevix: I _do_ use the CLI. But I've never installed a GUI, hence the question.
17:25<kevix>ah. ok.
17:25<musca>digitsm2: yes, root has the normal PATH apended with the sbin directories.
17:26<digitsm2>musca: Does sbin is equal to 'super bin'?
17:26<musca>root uses ls and vi like some other normal tools
17:26<Chav>And I have another: my base install is 517MB, and "apt-get install task-lxde-desktop" results in "1,095MB of additional disk space". But my drive is only 1.5GB in size. I wanted to keep this small but have a GUI. What to do?
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17:27<musca>digitsm2: yes, that'S the meaning of it, don't know exact abbreviation.
17:27<digitsm2>musca: Thanks
17:27<digitsm2>Chav: You can only install the essential parts for your LXE
17:28<Chav>digitsm2: ah, does Debian 7 default to installing "suggests"?
17:28<digitsm2>Chav: task-lxde-desktop installs many additional applications like Libreoffice, etc.
17:29<digitsm2>Chav: I think it installs EVERYTHING related to LXDE
17:29<digitsm2>Not all of them are needed
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17:30<kevix>there is a lxde-core package
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17:30<digitsm2>For example I installed task-xfce-desktop and many other packages are also installed
17:30<kevix>lxde,lxde-core and task-xfce-desktop
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17:31<Chav>kevix: I just want to work with a basic GUI on this VM. Will apt-get install ldxe ldxe-core suffice?
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17:33<digitsm2>Chav: I think so. Do you need huge packages like LibreOffice, VLC, etc.? In that case not. Otherwise it could be enough
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17:33<digitsm2>Chav: Plus you can install everything else after installaion.
17:34<Chav>digitsm2: That siunds good then. Thanks.
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17:35<mshuler>Chav: see what 'apt-get install lightdm lxde' gives you - that should be pretty minimal, then you can add what you need
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17:37<mshuler>lxde-core will be even smaller, Chav, you are correct - lxde will pull in browser, n-m, and a few other things
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17:38<Chav>mshuler: so, apt-get install lightdm lxde-core
17:38-!-Guest4099 is now known as Airwave
17:38<mshuler>Chav: see what the package lists look like for your disk space and decide ;) you can always hit 'n'
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17:39<Gentleman>.g lightdm
17:39*Gentleman googles lightdm
17:40<Gentleman>looks nice
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17:40<Chav>Damn, sorry, another question. For some reason apt-get requests a DVD for install. I want to use the web.
17:41<mshuler>oh, you have some media lines in /etc/apt/source.list - comment those out
17:42<mshuler> /etc/apt/sources.list even..
17:42<digitsm2>I did "usermod -aG sudo myusername" as root, but I can not use 'sudo' yet. It still says I'm not in the sudoers file. Should I do anything else like a logoff?
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17:43<mshuler>digitsm2: yep - log out/in for the new group to take
17:43<digitsm2>mshuler, Thanks very much
17:44*mshuler misses 'rehash' from *bsd
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17:44<kevix>Chav: and if you change your source.list, you need to apt-get update
17:44<terrible96>hi how can i reconfigure /etc/network/interfaces from the live cd???
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17:45<Chav>kevix: God I wish you'd said that before I threw the computer out the window…
17:47<mshuler>terrible96: if no on chime in (I'm not sure), you might try #debian-live (but stick around anyway!)
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17:47<mshuler>no one chimes..
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17:49<terrible96>mshuler, my problem is that i change something in the file and now the system doesnt boot
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17:58<sinad>Do you believe it? My laptop's noise is more than my PC with open cases! (just for your information)
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18:00<kevix>sinad: need a new fan or have it cleaned?
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18:04<sinad>kevix: My laptop is repaired. It seems that its thermal chip was broken and the equivalents of that chip in market were all from China. So the repairman decided to solder my fan to 5+ DC of one of my USB ports
18:05<sinad>So the fan of my laptop turns at its highest speed all the time. I've got used to it but sometimes it's on the nerve :D
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18:09<pmart>i found the commit, how do i check which release versions contain it? (without installing git)
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18:11<kevix>sinad: ohhhhh
18:12<kevix>sinad: maybe find a tiny microcontroller board and have it interface with it to control the speed via variable resistor?
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18:15<sinad>kevix: Are you asking about thermal chip? Yeah, it's a special chip which changes voltage of the fan based on the CPU usage (or CPU frequency or etc.) In my case this chip is out, so the fan turns at its highest speed
18:17<sinad>kevix: However changing the fan's speed manually (with a resistor or mc) is not recommended. The CPU may get overheated
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18:19<kevix>sidus: I'd think that you could have a temp chip on the mc board that would serve the same purpose and alter the fan speed?
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18:29<sinad> kevix: Do you mean a custom-made thermal chip? I think it's hard and risky. There are voltages and other specifications I don't know about. Plus it's a laptop and don't have room for a custom chip
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18:30<kevix>sinad: it was just a wacky idea, a 'hack' for someone will to risk it ;)
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18:32<sinad>kevix: Maybe I must take the risk, go back to repairman and say him to change the broken thermal chip with a Chinese chip, which may broke again after sometime!
18:32<sinad>kevix: Anyway thanks for your wacky idea :D
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18:33<kevix>well, the behavior of the fan will affect the laptop, so its which will be better ;)
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18:36<sinad>kevix: The risk of using a Chinese somehow fake chip is that if it break the fan will stop working, and then my laptop will break again (due to overheating)
18:36-!-meepmeep [] has joined #debian
18:37<sinad>I'm actually the digitsm and digitsm2
18:37<sinad>Dunno why xchat changed my username after restart. Just FYI
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18:40<musca>sinad: /nick digitism
18:41-!-sinad is now known as digitsm2
18:42<musca>digitsm2: and you can configure xchat to use this nick.
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18:43-!-pmart is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on # #debian
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18:47<digitsm2>musca: How could I show "digitsm2|away" instead of "digitsm2" when I'm inactive for e.g. 30mins?
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18:48<musca>away-nickchanges are not wanted in this channel.
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18:49<abrotman>freaking annoying
18:49<Supaplex>!tell digitsm2 about away
18:49<digitsm2>musca: I know, I just wanted to know for my information
18:50-!-mode/#debian [+l 610] by debhelper
18:50<fede>Supaplex, your nick is related to the great '93 game? ^^
18:50<fede>omg great, nice remembers :)
18:51<fede>(sorry for off topic)
18:51<fede>forgot about it till now eheh
18:51<fede>spent a month on it i think
18:51<Supaplex>pretty much
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18:52<Gentleman>oh wait i remember this
18:52<fede>at that days i was used to do things, then do them again, and again :)
18:52<Gentleman>i use to know it by a different name
18:52<fede>which one?
18:53-!-Rcart [~rcart@] has joined #debian
18:53<Gentleman>supaplex. "think" because of the second level
18:53<Gentleman>where the coins was arranged to spell 'think'
18:53<Gentleman>hehe, nostalgia is having its way with me
18:53<fede>ouch i don't remember so precisely
18:53<Gentleman>the good old 386 days
18:53<fede>i was on 486
18:54<fede>now u told about 386, i wonder that game had a time control over cycles
18:54*kevix played loderunner
18:54-!-Volley [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
18:54<Gentleman>i what over what?
18:54<dpkg>#debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
18:54<fede>many 386 game couldn't get played on 486 because running too fast
18:54<Gentleman>im sure it will work with moslow
18:54<Gentleman>if that is what you mean
18:55<fede>yes it worked, and i just wonder about that
18:55-!-jenia [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:55*abrotman points at #debian-offtopic
18:55<fede>sorry abrotman, i'm done
18:55<patwotrik>i was talking to different people about upgrading from wheezy to jessie
18:55<patwotrik>some said that i should wait a couple of months
18:55<patwotrik>but how does it work?
18:56<patwotrik>isn't it right after the release it's most like the stable version?
18:56<abrotman>patwotrik: yeah, for about two days
18:56<kevix>patwotrik: jesse and wheezy are names of 'yet-to-be-stable' and 'current' stable
18:56<abrotman>and then the flood gates open .. and then jessie because a mess
18:56<patwotrik>kevix: yes i know that
18:57<abrotman>or testing .. whatever you want to call it today
18:57<kevix>patwotrik: so it you upgrade now to jessei, it will be 'testing'
18:57<patwotrik>so the testing version is most stable in the beginning and the end?
18:57<patwotrik>kevix: yes i know that too :)
18:57<patwotrik>i was a bit unclear
18:57<abrotman>patwotrik: that would be hte idea, yes
18:57<patwotrik>sorry for that
18:58<kevix>patwotrik: testing is a copy of stable at day 0, then it shifts to various states of useability until it reaches a freeze near the end of the release cycle, then it becomes 'new' stable.
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18:59<patwotrik>i still don't know if i should upgrade :)
18:59<abrotman>at any point in between, it could be perfectly usable, or unable to boot
18:59<kevix>bug fixes enter unstable, and if they are 'ok' by debian standards, they enter testing. and slowly testing get a mix of packages, in various states of usefulness.
18:59<patwotrik>but i guess it's just me who can decide that
19:00<abrotman>patwotrik: that's correct
19:00<kevix>patwotrik: most packages enter testing from unstable every 10 days.
19:00<patwotrik>well, it can't be that bad
19:00<abrotman>it can be
19:00<kevix>many people use testing for various use cases.
19:01<patwotrik>afterall i had wheezy long before it became stable
19:01<patwotrik>abrotman: yes i know that it CAN be that bad
19:01<patwotrik>but you know what i mean
19:01<Gentleman>im new to debian, but it does seem like some stable packages are very outdated compared to 'testing' ones
19:01<kevix>you can have a 'test' server, that you upgrade before others and see if any major issues occur.
19:01<patwotrik>i meant that it's not likely that i will have an os that feels buggy for two years
19:01<abrotman>Gentleman: that's possible, but not likely to have varied much yet
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19:02<abrotman>Gentleman: which in particular?
19:02<patwotrik>Gentleman: That's true. Only security updates after stable.
19:02-!-petris [~petris@] has quit [Quit:]
19:02<Gentleman>take gnote: stable is 0.7.1, testing is 3.8.7, unstable is 3.8.8
19:02<abrotman>patwotrik: that's not true
19:02<kevix>Gentleman: there is a reason that is true. its part of the design of Debian.
19:02<patwotrik>abrotman: no?
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19:02<abrotman>Gentleman: i would imagine that the version number was greatly inflated at some point
19:03<abrotman>patwotrik: no
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19:03<kevix>Gentleman: there are various ways of dealing with that, like 'backports' and updating pacakges individually etc.
19:03<Gentleman>kevix, but by doing that you take security risks
19:03<kevix>Gentleman: do you know what the benefits of using Stable are?
19:03<Gentleman>id like to use only officially audited software
19:04<abrotman>Gentleman: yes, that's a trade off. Not just limited to Debian
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19:04<Gentleman>kevix, no.
19:04<Gentleman>im not that familiar with the policies
19:04<kevix>Gentleman: Debian does have a security team (DSA), and if they can fix it, they will.
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19:04<kevix>Gentleman: and then it will be an update to Stable.
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19:05<patwotrik>abrotman: then how does it work?
19:05<kevix>Gentleman: Stable is the stream that is a Debian 'release', the others are not 'offical' releases.
19:05<patwotrik>abrotman: i was talking about pure stable without backports
19:05<abrotman>patwotrik: largely, yes, it is just security fixes, but you will see other fixes for RC bugs occasionally
19:06<kevix>Gentleman: stable gets security updates and now we have something called 'backports' to get some newer packges to use.
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19:06<patwotrik>abrotman: yea my bad
19:06<abrotman>patwotrik: look at point release notes
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19:06<patwotrik>abrotman: i basically meant that it's only bug fixes and no new features
19:06<abrotman>!meaning of stable
19:06<dpkg>"Stable" is a release, and it does not change much at all over its lifetime. There is a known set of bugs, and it gets security updates, and point releases. Some will consider this as 'stale', while others consider this one of the great advantages of Debian.
19:06<kevix>Gentleman: if you run a business 24/7, you dont want software and an OS that change ever 5 minutes. Debian stable is made to work 24/7 on Enterprise servers.
19:07<kevix>abrotman: thanks for using the bot. very complex I hear.
19:07<abrotman>kevix: seriously ..
19:07-!-Guest4106 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:08*abrotman should have just grabbed the URL
19:08<kevix>I'll have to wait for a chance to use "!ot" since I'm bored
19:08<abrotman>kevix: perhaps you'd care for a little !qotd
19:08<kevix>I prefer to drink aged whine.
19:09<abrotman>Gentleman: /msg dpkg help
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19:25<patwotrik>It would be nice if Debian could have some semistable releases more frequently
19:25<birch>patwotrik, something similar was proposed on lwn but i don't think i can find the link for it
19:26<patwotrik>i don't see the big problem either
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19:26<patwotrik>freeze it once or twice during the test period at some point where things seems to work fine
19:28<birch>patwotrik, i'm guessing that point has never existed and never will exist. iirc wheezy had some dozens of outstanding bugs whose packages were simply dropped so it could finally go stable, after several delays due to the bugs.
19:28<birch>but i think that was the DPL's call, so take it up with him
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19:29<abrotman>birch: CUT was one project
19:29<kevix>birch: yes, there are decisions made to 'not include' certain packages but that happens after the packges would not have been 'good enough' or other reasons.
19:29<abrotman>Constantly Usable Testing or something
19:30<birch>kevix, i'm not criticizing the decision, i'm merely pointing out that it's hard enough to have a final stable version....having interval stable versions would be nearly impossible.
19:30<kevix>Stable has an important use case, if you dont find that use case something use need, then you can certainly find ways to fix it with mixes of things like testing or using backports or such.
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19:31<abrotman>FSVO 'fix' :)
19:31<kevix>birch: yes, I understand. Ubuntu is trying to focus on timed releases now and Debian was looking to do that, but it comes down to how and why we do it.
19:32*abrotman is fairly certain they gave up on the timed release thing
19:33<kevix>well, there can be testing different feeze times to see how good that is to get stable released
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19:34<birch>i think it's easier for ubuntu to do a timed release because they have the luxury of basing their distro on debian stable, whose devs had to go through the extra effort to fix despite time constraints
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19:35<abrotman>birch: not stable
19:35<devil>birch: ubuntu was never based on stable afaik
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19:35<birch>or testing
19:35<abrotman>unstable perhaps, but not stable
19:35<devil>wild mixture of testing, unstable and experimental
19:35<birch>huh, didn't know that
19:35<birch>i assumed that's how they did their downstream glossy stuff
19:35<kevix>they also have fewer architechures and only maintain 2000 packages and get the rest from Debian and other upstreams
19:35<abrotman>Also, Debian has a more stringent QA process
19:35-!-Borgbox [] has joined #debian
19:36<birch>i guess the QA process is what i was alluding to when i said stable, assuming it would result in them using stable
19:36<patwotrik>what do you guys think of ubuntu?
19:36<devil>patwotrik: you do not want to go there :P
19:36<kevix>I think the LT release is based upon testing and the other releases based upon unstable
19:37<blitzed>Debian is where it's at =b
19:37<birch>i started on it. i think it's a good first step into linux, if you don't have a lot of problems with hardware the you need mint to fix for you. but it's really the rookie distro, and people need to graduate to the next level soon rather than later
19:37-!-Katy_ [] has joined #debian
19:37<kevix>patwotrik: its a distro that would not exist without Mark Shuttleworth seems a great model, community and example of Debian.
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19:38<patwotrik>i personally don't like ubuntu so much, and i also don't like some choices they have made
19:38<birch>there was a time when an ubuntu usb stick was a godsend, and i have no problem using it for sticky situations. but i wouldn't recommend someone build a long term setup around it
19:38-!-mdik [] has joined #debian
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19:38<patwotrik>but i also think that ubuntu is one of the best things that has ever happened to the linux world
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19:38<blitzed>pros & cons
19:38<kevix>Ubuntu has changed focus (or that's how I see it) from a few years ago.
19:38<birch>that's probably because the alternative would have meant more people using suse lol
19:38-!-roughnecks [] has joined #debian
19:39<birch>i think shuttleworth has left charity mode and is back in business mode
19:39<birch>thus integrated amazon search
19:39<kevix>well, he's running an experiment. which I think is worthwhile.
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19:40<blitzed>anything to get rid of more Microsoft solutions...
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19:41<birch>the only thing more scary than knowing that there are stock exchange trading platforms based on ubuntu is that there are far more based on windows lol
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19:42<patwotrik>wine 1.6 was just released
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19:42<patwotrik>anyone tried it?
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19:44<devil>i tried crossover based on it for a review I wrote
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19:45<scientes>patwotrik, it was release over a month ago
19:47-!-sidus [] has joined #debian
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19:47<patwotrik>scientes: that's "just released" in my world
19:47-!-zurapa [] has joined #debian
19:47<scientes>not in computer land IMHO
19:48<devil>patwotrik: you must be a stable user :)
19:48<scientes>wine development is pretty slow IMHO
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19:48<patwotrik>i'm over 30
19:48<scientes>i'm obsessed with having current software
19:48<patwotrik>that may be the explanation
19:48<scientes>yet i run debian....
19:49<devil>patwotrik: I can almost double that :)
19:49<patwotrik>debian is for men, not boys
19:49<devil>and I use unstable
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19:50<scientes>i obsessively rung apt-get -t experimental upgrade to see what i can upgrade
19:50<patwotrik>Is LFS for men or nerds?
19:50<scientes>and then go read changelogs
19:50<scientes>also i obsessively git pull torvalds linux repo
19:50<scientes>even though i can't run it on this hardware :(
19:50-!-iron [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:51<patwotrik>when do you think wine 1.6 will enter the backports?
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19:51<devil>patwotrik: whenever you build it?
19:51<scientes>it hasn't been packaged yet
19:52<patwotrik>make devils mom
19:52<stderr>Does backports accept uploads from random users?
19:52<scientes>damn its not in debian or ubuntu
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19:53<patwotrik>we were a couple of guys in school pulling command line releated jokes
19:53<patwotrik>someone wanted me to stop
19:53<SamB>stderr: no, you have to get on the keyring somehow
19:53<patwotrik>i (obviously) answered "make me"
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19:53<scientes>patwotrik, build this
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19:54<patwotrik>scientes: Thanks, but it's not that urguent
19:54-!-jmcknight [] has joined #debian
19:54<patwotrik>my english spelling really sucks monkey balls in a bad way
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19:56<birch>patwotrik, i found it!
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19:56<blitzed>patwotrik monkey balls...funny, I knew a gal whose job was essentially masturbating monkeys *LOL*
19:56<scientes>thats also called CUT
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19:56<birch>yes but i found the article!
19:56<patwotrik>blitzed: lol
19:56<patwotrik>birch: thanks
19:57<patwotrik>blitzed: i'd love that job
19:57<jmcknight>blitzed: does one put that on their resume as past work or no?
19:57<patwotrik>mostly for the moments when people ask me what i work with
19:57-!-anon86 [] has joined #debian
19:57<scientes>i would!
19:57<patwotrik>but on the other had
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19:57<jmcknight>so her job was literally a monkey spanker?
19:57<blitzed>pawotrik right, I imagined a businesscard which read Monkey Masturbator
19:57<patwotrik>some works have funny descriptions if you just formulate them right
19:58<blitzed>bad monkey bad!
19:58<blitzed>monkey dominatrix *LMAO*
19:58<patwotrik>body builder: I lift heavy stuff and put them down again
19:58<jmcknight>probably the only job on the planet where "spanking the monkey" isn't a euphemism at all
19:58<birch>which monkeys? we can probably do a play on the latin names
19:58<blitzed>I guess her proper title woulda been Dominatrix of Monkeys
19:59<scientes>jmcknight, but might actually refer to corporal punishment in this case
19:59<blast007>think this is going a bit off topic, no?
19:59<scientes>just a little
19:59<jmcknight>i agree. let's wrap this up
19:59<jmcknight>last jokes anyone?
19:59<birch>monkey cum dumpster?
19:59<blitzed>Ubuntu monkey jokes?
19:59<birch>or is that too far?
20:00<blitzed>Ubuntu 48 Spanky SpiderMonkey
20:00<SamB>blitzed: don't they just call them "lab assistant" or somesuch"
20:00<stderr>jmcknight: If you're literally spanking the monkey, you're doing it wrong. (Unless it's into that kind of thing...)
20:00<SamB>whoops quotes
20:00<birch>haha blitzed wins'
20:00<jmcknight>stderr: i've been doing it wrong this entire time
20:01<jmcknight>i'm pretty sure bonobo monkeys masturbate. they're one of the only breeds that have sex for pleasure
20:01<jmcknight>so there's that
20:01<blitzed>Ubuntu Busy Baboon
20:02-!-kingsley_ [] has joined #debian
20:02<blitzed>I wonder if Debian will ever run out of Toy Story names
20:02<jmcknight>if they have to switch, name future releases after characters from the show Lost
20:02<jmcknight>that had a pretty big cast
20:03<stderr>Can't we force Pixar to make more?
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20:06<scientes>i think we are still on Toy Story 1, and havn't taken from 2 or 3
20:07-!-ben [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:07<stderr>Jessie wasn't in the first one as far as I know.
20:07<SamB>stderr: I was just about to say pretty much the same thing, yes
20:08<blitzed>I vaguely remember watching some of Toy Story eons ago
20:08<blitzed>Toy Story 4 is in development, thereya go
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20:36<scientes>why does mutt pull in the whole graphical stack?
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20:37<Khades>hellp anyone
20:37<Gentleman>mutt vs mush
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20:38<Gentleman>vs mosh
20:38<Khades>milano's mosh
20:38<themill>scientes: "whole graphical stack" is vague enough that you won't get an answer. I bet it's also exaggeration.
20:38<scientes>things like libcairo2, libdrm2, etc
20:39<scientes>libx11 and libxcb
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20:39<scientes>libwayland-client0 etc
20:39<Gentleman>use claws. it is awesome
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20:39<themill>dpkg: tell scientes about aptitude why
20:39<Khades>claws is good
20:40<Khades>pure sylpheed is even lighter
20:40<scientes>ahh its gnupg2 pulling in gnupg-agent, pulling in pinentry-gtk2, pulling in the graphics libs
20:40<themill>scientes: libgpgme11 has switched from gnupg to gnupg2. I'm sure you'll
20:41<scientes>so i just have to apt-get install mutt pinentry-curses
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20:41*scientes wonders if a bug is approiate....
20:42<kevix>scientes: are you talking about a chances in the suggests/recommends ?
20:42<scientes>this is the offender: p gnupg-agent Depends pinentry-gtk2 | pinentry-curses | pinentry
20:42<themill>scientes: what would you file the bug against?
20:42<scientes>if you put pinetry-curses first then it would fix pulling in so much stuff
20:43<themill>that would be suboptimal
20:43<kevix>scientes: in that case, if you apt-get pinentry-curses, the apt-get install mutt would not install pinetry?
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20:44<kevix>so maybe suggest a change in the order?
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21:53<cogito>I am using Debian live lxde on a usb and i want to fix the partitions so winXP will boot. I have 2 ntfs partitions, both primary, one boot where xp should be installing but i get an error on boot, presumably because the disk isn't to XP's satisfaction. Can i make the second partition extended some how?
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21:54<cogito>Is there a way to "fixmbr" and "fixboot" from within debian?
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22:05<jmcknight>cogito: not sure from within Debian but if you have the Windows install media fixmbr may be your best option
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22:07<cogito>I'm not sure but i think XP doesn't like the fact that my second partition is also primary and not extended
22:08<wardhan>hi all. when i use wine /home/suer/program.exe it showing bash: wine: command not found. i have installed wine using apt-get install wine
22:08<cogito>In the information about gparted is says you can change the partition or filesystem type but i haven't found out how
22:09<wardhan>what am i missing ? i am using amd system. and it installed wine64-bin along with wine
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22:09<jmcknight>cogito: don't think that matters too much. all Windows requires is that it be the first partition on the first drive and be primary
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22:10<jmcknight>any other primary partitions it shouldn't care about
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22:11<xattr>hi. I need some little help with a command => NetwList=$( cat /path/to/netw_list.txt ) <= I get a file not found msg from cat... do I have to mask that somehow?
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22:12<jmcknight>wardhan: if you open a terminal can you type the command wine?
22:12<abrotman>xattr: perhaps you need the full path to cat?
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22:12<cogito>jmcknight: Then why did it give and error just after the file copy when it tried to restart?
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22:13<xattr>abrotman I'll try it ...
22:13<wardhan>jmcknight: yes, i did it, it is showing same error
22:14<jmcknight>wardhan: paste the output of this
22:14<xattr>abrotman: I looked with whereis cat and changed the command to NetwList=$( /bin/cat /path/to/netw_list.txt ) but didnt helped
22:14<jmcknight>dpkg -L wine | grep bin/wine
22:14<dpkg>No packages found matching wine | grep bin/wine
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22:15<wardhan>jmcknight: there is no output
22:15<jmcknight>what about dpkg -l | grep wine
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22:16<wardhan>ii wine 1.4.1-4 amd64 Windows API implementation - standard suite
22:16<wardhan>ii wine64-bin 1.5.30-2 amd64 Windows API implementation - binary loader
22:16<jmcknight>cogito: why not just delete the second partition since that one doesn't matter when installing windows
22:16<abrotman>xattr: which language is this?
22:17<xattr>abrotman: just simple shell scripting /bin/sh
22:17<cogito>jmcknight: hissh, because i have 400GB of data on it that i don't want to lose and have nowhere else to put it
22:18<abrotman>xattr: perhaps you'd rather use /bin/bash, you don't know what /bin/sh is pointing at
22:18<jmcknight>cogito: what's the exact error you're getting when trying to install windows?
22:18<Infiltrator>jmcknight: Probably "ewww; keep that away from me."
22:19<xattr>abrotman: can I change that somehow in my curently running shell?
22:19<xattr>infiltrator LOL :D
22:20<jmcknight>Infiltrator: if only error messages were that honest
22:20<cogito>jmcknight: Error loading Operating System
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22:20<jmcknight>cogito: and this is during the install? and if so, when/where during the install?
22:20<Infiltrator>cogito: Also, VM or physical? And have you already pasted a partition table?
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22:21<cogito>jmcknight: Just after the file copy, when it restarts from the hdd and starts the actual install
22:21<jmcknight>when you start the machine from a cold boot, what does it do?
22:22<jmcknight>was windows on this previously? linux?
22:22<abrotman>xattr: change what?
22:22<cogito>Infiltrator: physical and how would i paste a patition table? where can i see that?
22:22<abrotman>xattr: just change the shebang ont he script
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22:23<Infiltrator>!tell cogito -about list partitions
22:23<cogito>jmcknight: I use to have XP, but it crashed so i had to re-install
22:24<jmcknight>cogito: have you considered this being hardware/drive related?
22:24<jmcknight>a windows install will always wipe the MBR
22:24<xattr>abrotman ok, done. script is running under #!/bin/bash now, but didnt helped :-/
22:24<abrotman>xattr: i'm just pointing out that it may have acted differently
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22:25<abrotman>xattr: can you pastebin the whole script?
22:25<adefadmin>greetings, i have a debconf question; i'm trying to setup ldap-auth-config, i've read the configs (from another system) using debconf-get-selections, and read it using debconf-set-selections and then did apt-get -y install ldap-auth-config ; which installs a bunch of packages with it! it does not seem to work :( does the order of the entries matter (i dont think so; but suggests so)
22:25<adefadmin> ; what else can i try/test/debug !?!
22:25<cogito>jmcknight: same hardware as before
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22:26<jmcknight>cogito: but what caused the crash? i know from past experience that whether windows works or not is a brittle and fragile operation
22:26<xattr>abrotman: the script just contains that single command... Im testing it with that because I thought they will be problems with it xD ...when the command work, i will use it later in another script
22:26<abrotman>xattr: so i just wrote a similar script, worked just fine
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22:27<cogito>jmcknight: beats me, this particular install had been unstable from the start so when i got BSOD, i just decided to re-install
22:28<abrotman>xattr: perhaps the user running the script doesn't have access to that file?
22:28<xattr>abrotman: sec...
22:29<Infiltrator>cogito: parted /dev/your-actual-device (probably sda).
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22:30<xattr>abrotman: heres the exact script: running as root... when I c&p that cat /path/to/bla it works, but not in that command in script...
22:31<jmcknight>cogito: not sure of your exact problem, but i'm almost 100% that your second partition also being primary doesn't make any difference
22:31<cogito>Does Debian now fully supports ntfs or is it still not 100% stable?
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22:32<cogito>jmcknight: Used to be that the second partition was "active" and that was a problem but since the first one is boot, it is the "active" one right?
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22:33<abrotman>xattr: put a "set -x" on line 2, then run it, then pastebin the whole output
22:33<jmcknight>from your parted output, yes
22:33<Infiltrator>cogito: And if your issue is only with windows, you're best off seeking help elsewhere. (Technically, we should be telling you to get stuffed unless there's a problem with Debian. ;) )
22:33<xattr>abrotman: k, sec
22:33<jmcknight>first drive is "active"/bootable
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22:34<Infiltrator>cogito: This [] will probably help you more than we can.
22:34<cogito>Infiltrator: i know, but can Debian fix windows?
22:34<abrotman>fix the windows install? not likely
22:34<Infiltrator>Nothing can fix windows; even MS; that's why they give up and put out a new clone every few years. ;)
22:34<abrotman>erm .. installer
22:35<jmcknight>i remember the days when all windows drive problems were fixed with fdisk /mbr
22:35<jmcknight>those were the days
22:35<abrotman>anyway ..
22:35<jmcknight>cogito: basically you won't be able to resolve this using linux
22:36<jmcknight>make a bootable XP USB (if that's even possible) and run fixmbr
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22:37<cogito>ok, so if instead i install Debian wheezy lxde on my first partition, will i be able to use the second ntfs partition or can i change the filesystem without losing the data?
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22:37<jmcknight>you'd need to keep it as is
22:38<jmcknight>linux's support of NTFS is good but writing to NTFS is still sort of iffy
22:38<Infiltrator>cogito: I would strongly reccomend that you install Debian in place of windows, yes. You can't change the partition type away from ntfs without losing data, though.
22:38-!-pipeep_ [~pipeep@2605:6400:10:a15d:feed:face:dead:beef] has joined #debian
22:39<Infiltrator>cogito: Do you have the option of backing up your data and wiping the drive?
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22:40<abrotman>xattr: you can paste a single line in here: ls -l /root/scripts/netw_list.txt
22:40<Infiltrator>xattr: Stupid question: What's the output of `ls -ld /root/scripts/netw_list.txt`?
22:40<Infiltrator>abrotman: Beat me to it. :(
22:40<cogito>Infiltrator: Not really, i have another 500 stata already in ntfs and more then half-full and an old 120 ide, also in ntfs and practicaly full
22:40<abrotman>Infiltrator: it's not a directory
22:41<cogito>oops sata not stata
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22:41<Infiltrator>cogito: Do you need absolutely everything on all of them? If not, you can save everything which you do to one drive and then go ahead and wipe.
22:42<Infiltrator>cogito: It's just that as jmcknight mentioned, you might have issues writing to an ntfs partition, so you're better off making it ext3 (or ext4 or one of the other available options).
22:42<cogito>Infiltrator: no, not "everything", but any drive i would need to write to would be ntfs
22:44<Infiltrator>cogito: It would be an incremental "copy everything I need to drive B, wipe drive A, install Debian on drive A, copy from drive B to ext4 partition on drive A, partition drive B, etc" for your drives.
22:44<abrotman>xattr: ?
22:44<xattr>infiltrator: abrotman: with the ls -ld command I found out that the file is called net_list.txt (wihout w LOL!) I made a mistake by naming it and didnt recognized it because I used the TAB key to complete it... OMG... thats awkward -.- btw mistery is solved now XD
22:44<jmcknight>cogito: if you rely on Windows this much, i have a hard time recommending linux to you in this instance unfortunately
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22:44<abrotman>xattr: enjoy
22:44<Infiltrator>jmcknight: Good point.
22:45<Infiltrator>xattr: cat usually doesn't lie. ;)
22:45<jmcknight>if NTFS is such a requirement, you should probably stick with Windows. not worth the headaches in my opinion
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22:46<xattr>hehe yeah its 4:45am here and Im sitting in a nightshift, so maybe thats the reason for this failure XD
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22:46<cogito>jmcknight: I've never used linux before so all i have is in ntfs. I don't need ntfs, it's just what i have because i've been a win slave. not easy making the jump
22:47<jmcknight>cogito: understandable. if you could somehow either get an external drive or even borrow one to temporarily dump your files on, that would be the easiest course of action then do a clean wipe/partition of your drive
22:47<jmcknight>it's all i can suggest without either sacrificing your files or potentially losing data
22:47-!-pipeep_ [~pipeep@2605:6400:10:a15d:feed:face:dead:beef] has quit []
22:48<cogito>Can i run ms-dos on a virtual machine and use it to transfer the files?
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22:49<jmcknight>that in itself would take up space plus ms-dos would mess with your file names since it has character length limitations
22:49<jmcknight>you'd get the awesome SOMEFIL~.TXT
22:50<jmcknight>basically you'd need to get your files physically off your machine temporarily
22:50<blast007>and since when did MS-DOS support NTFS?
22:51<cogito>jmcknight: I was thinking if i install Debian, then i can run XP as a virtual machine
22:51<xattr>cogito: I dunno exactly whats ur problem is, but if you wanna copy files from ntfs to something else, you should give partedmagic (live linux) a chance, that things reads and writes everything!
22:51<cogito>blast007: since years back, i had a diskette with ntfs support for dos
22:53<blast007>cogito: and you're thinking the support in that will be better than what's in Linux? :)
22:53<cogito>xattr: What can i do with partedmagic that i can't do in Debian live?
22:53<cogito>blast007: I dunno, it is "ms"-dos
22:53<xattr>cogito: it has newer software, and several enhancements, like in gparted
22:54<jmcknight>xattr: the probably is more that he needs somewhere to backup his files to temporarily
22:54<abrotman>how is this a Debian problem?
22:54<jmcknight>a live CD is useless in this regard even if it can write to NTFS
22:55<cogito>the only person i know with an external drive is my brother and the drive is in ntfs
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22:55<jmcknight>cogito: then unless you're willing to sacrifice data, i think you're stuck with Windows
22:55<cogito>Can grub fix my boot problems?
22:55<xattr>well okay, just wanted to offern an option... why not simply format some damn external drive in extX and copy? xD
22:56<jmcknight>cogito: no. grub won't write Windows boot code to the MBR
22:56<cogito>xattr: Don't have the damn external drive
22:56<xattr>ah okay, than no software can ever help you :)
22:56<blast007>buy another hard drive.
22:57<jmcknight>which are pretty cheap these days
22:57<jmcknight>under $100 for 500GB
22:57<cogito>no $
22:58<cogito>My whole computer has been gifts
22:58<abrotman>how is this a Debian problem again?
22:58<jmcknight>then i think your options are to stick with Windows, or sacrifice most of your data
22:58<xattr>I have an external 3TB hard drive wich I cant use because of a kernel bug in <3.10 lol... oh the irony XD
22:58<cogito>my brother's old hardware mostly
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22:58<abrotman>cogito: how is this related to Debian?
22:58-!-scientes [~scientes@2602:304:cea7:adc9:5ef8:a1ff:fe6a:ce69] has joined #debian
22:59<jmcknight>abrotman: it started out with him asking if there's anything he could do within Debian that would fix Windows boot problems
22:59<jmcknight>which of course, is a big fat no
22:59<cogito>abrotman: I'm trying to switch to Debian but all my data is in ntfs
22:59<abrotman>cogito: this channel is for supporting Debian, not Windows, please try ##windows on .. good luck
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23:00<xattr>dd fixes everything :)
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23:02<jmcknight>probably not specifically a Debian thing, but anyone have any idea why when i roll my own .asoundrc file dmix ceases to work?
23:03<cogito>Is it possible to put the net install iso on a hdd and install from that hdd and to that hdd?
23:04<jmcknight>cogito: no
23:05<cogito>then can i put it on the usbkey i'm currently using debian live from?
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23:06<Infiltrator>cogito: Why not just use a CD? Or is that not an option?
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23:07<cogito>Infiltrator: I don't know if i can burn a cd with the debian live i'm in. I don't see any burning app
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23:09<cogito>jmcknight: Is it as simple as downloading the iso, installing unetbootin and using it?
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23:10<cogito>xattr: not that i can see in the menus
23:10<jmcknight>cogito: download the ISO then burn it to CD. if there's no graphical burner you should be able to do it with console tools
23:11-!-daniel-s__ [~daniel-s@2001:388:608c:4c40:61e1:693e:db67:6bf4] has joined #debian
23:11<cogito>What's the best way to zero the hdd? making it ready for Debian install
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23:15<Infiltrator>cogito: Unless you're concerned about data leaks, just go through the installer and re-partition; there's no need to zero.
23:16<cogito>ok, if i have a 64 capable computer, is it better to use the amd64 debian
23:17<cogito>coz i was still using XP 32bit and i have games that will run trough wine but are 32 bit
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23:21<xattr>well imo running games with wine is a pain in the ass at least if they are more complex than minesweeper XD
23:23<jmcknight>i say go 64bit unless you have a small amount of RAM
23:23<cogito>i have 2GB
23:23<SamB>the big question: is 2GB a small amount of RAM now?
23:23<jmcknight>64bit should be fine since you're only going to be using LXDE
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23:24<SamB>cogito: rest assured you can install 32-bit WINE just fine
23:24<xattr>compared to a pocket calculator its a massive amount :)
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23:24<cogito>jmcknight: does the 64 version take more ram to run then the 32
23:24<SamB>xattr: yes but pocket calculators don't normally have web browsers as I understand it
23:24<SamB>cogito: yes
23:25<cogito>what's the advantage then
23:25<jmcknight>across the board things compiled in 64bit use more memory
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23:25<SamB>64-bit programs have more registers to work with, and can use more memory
23:26<cogito>SamB: nowadays, pocket anything come with a web browser i think
23:26<SamB>well at any rate I doubt pocket calculators have tabs on their browsers
23:27<jmcknight>with memory prices these days, pocket calculators should be packing at least 4GB
23:27<cogito>What's the use of 64 bit if all it does is use more ram
23:27<xattr>our "pocket" supercomputer calculator here dont has a browser XD
23:28<jmcknight>cogito: there are a bunch of advantages, using more memory isn't a bad thing
23:28<Infiltrator>cogito: See what SamB said above.
23:28<SamB>I mean, 64-bit programs can work with bigger datasets
23:28<jmcknight>it is a bad thing if you have like 256mb
23:28<SamB>jmcknight: well, higher memory pressure is not exactly a good thing
23:29<jmcknight>not if it's maxing out 32GB, no
23:29<cogito>i chose lxde because it uses less resources
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23:30<jmcknight>yeah, you best be changin' that nick
23:30<Guest4126>what ?
23:31<jmcknight>a joke
23:32<Guest4126>first time i use this ssoftware
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23:33<jmcknight>summary: more registers, 64bit yields better code, better use of modern hardware
23:34<cogito>jmcknight: If i get the Debian amd64 will all packages i install be in 64 bits
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23:35<jmcknight>plus Debian does awesome things with 64bit like multilib. i unfortunately require Skype. since Skype developers are lazy, they only provide a 32bit version
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23:35<jmcknight>because of multilib, i can natively run 32bit Skype in an otherwise 64bit system
23:36<xattr>oh multilib is awesome... I break wine with it :)
23:36<scientes>multiarch not multilib
23:36<scientes>multilib is something entirely differn't
23:36<xattr>ah yes arch
23:37<jmcknight>multiarch, sorry
23:37<jmcknight>i ran Gentoo many moons ago. i think that's what they call it
23:37<scientes>multilib is a gcc thing
23:37<cogito>I need skype too, unfortunately my family uses it to stay in touch
23:37<jmcknight>cogito: if you install 64bit, multiarch is a breeze to setup
23:37<xattr>gentoo is eating livetime xD
23:38<jmcknight>dpkg --add-architecture i386
23:38<dpkg>jmcknight: are you smoking crack?
23:38<jmcknight>dpkg: you mean right at this second?
23:38<dpkg>I resemble that remark!
23:38<scientes>dpkg you should ignore --add-architecture
23:38<dpkg>I resemble that remark!
23:38<scientes>dpkg is a bot
23:38<dpkg>no idea, scientes
23:38<xattr>lol wtf
23:38<jmcknight>which remark do you resent?
23:38<scientes>dpkg squeeze->wheezy
23:38<dpkg>Read chapter 4 ("Upgrades from Debian 6.0") of the <release notes>. In /etc/apt/sources.list, change "squeeze" to "wheezy" (noting that <wheezy-backports> have changed on the mirrors). apt-get update && apt-get upgrade && apt-get dist-upgrade. See also <squeeze->wheezy failures>.
23:39<xattr>dpkg crackhoe?!
23:39<dpkg>xattr: i don't know
23:39<cogito>now why would a bot need to know about crack
23:39<jmcknight>it's really, really smart
23:40<jmcknight>so anyway
23:40<Supaplex>to sell you some. gotta pay the light bill somehow.
23:40<jmcknight>dpkg --add-architecture i386
23:40<dpkg>jmcknight: i don't know
23:40<jmcknight>apt-get update
23:40<jmcknight>dpkg -i skype-*
23:40*dpkg installs skype-* into jmcknight's head with a bone saw and a few screws
23:40<jmcknight>geez, sorry
23:41<scientes>oh wow it was smart there
23:41<jmcknight>too smart
23:41<jmcknight>so ashamed
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23:43<xattr>it should install that spy software to /dev/null xD
23:43<jmcknight>since microsoft took over skype, the interface is garbage
23:43<jmcknight>it wasn't fantastic to begin with, but still
23:44<Infiltrator>By the way:
23:44<dpkg>#debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
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23:51<xattr>did you notice the backports 3.10 kernel install was broken some days ago? the meta package was online, but the linux-image was hanging in backports-new... but now its fixed
23:53<cogito>I can't download the net install, not enough space (virtual disk space i imagine) how do i access the physical disk to put it there? i tried but access is denied
23:55<kevix>its always useful to tell us what exact command you used.
23:56<cogito>no command just the filemanager in lxde, i think it's pcmanfm
23:57<themill>xattr: it's pretty common for the metapackage and kernel in backports to be out of sync
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23:57<kevix>well I had no idea you even used pcmanfm
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23:58<jmcknight>xattr: ran into that the other day as well
23:58<xattr>themill oh realy? well thats bad :( thought its more official thing now... whats about sec updates there? are they coming in time?
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23:58<SamB>themill: needz moar britney?
23:58<themill>SamB: britney isn't involved
23:59<kevix>cogito: how big is the file you want and where is there space to download it?
23:59<SamB>yes, maybe that's part of the problem
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23:59<kevix>britney is a script to migrate from unstable to testing (unless its not used somewhere else)
---Logclosed Thu Aug 22 00:00:08 2013