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#debian IRC Logs for 2013-09-03

---Logopened Tue Sep 03 00:00:44 2013
---Daychanged Tue Sep 03 2013
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00:10<overo>angasule: so, change the power setting to not do that
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00:13<angasule>overo: well, I think the default should be changed (I'm guessing the default is to just not consider 2 batteries...), and I'm not sure there *is* an option anywhere visible to set this, I might be wrong, I'm waiting on the battery to charge enough to plug it back in without it shutting down my computer...
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00:34<PeaceSoldier>does anyone know a good numerology chat
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00:38<overo>angasule: I'm not sure about the 2-battery thing but you can set what it will do upon "critical battery" event (you want it to do nothing)
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00:40<angasule>overo: thanks, I'm not looking for a workaround, removing the battery works for that, I just don't know who to notify about this rather horrible (and new) bug
00:40<overo>this can be set in the power management control panel area or so, depending on which Desktop Environment you are using
00:41<angasule>yes, I know, but I would like to know who to pester to get it fixed for real
00:41<overo>you can report or subscribe to a bug on
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00:47<angasule>overo: which package would I report this against?
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01:04<nonconvergent>So, trying to install my first ssb.
01:05<nonconvergent>Unfortunately, it's a doozy.
01:06<nonconvergent>nvidia-kernel-dkms against kernel 3.10-0.bpo.2-amd64
01:06<themill>(I'd suggest you don't start the entire process again in a new channel)
01:07<nonconvergent>themill: the guy who was helping me went to bed, things appeared to be dying down, and it'd been half an hour since anyone had said anything.
01:07<nonconvergent>At least on that subject.
01:08<themill>people are probably so confused as to what you have or haven't done at this point
01:09<nonconvergent>I should think so. I'm arguing with you instead of telling anything.
01:10-!-nonconvergent [] has left #debian [which is enough of a reason to find something else to do. You win. Enjoy the silence.]
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01:37<nonconvergent>This is my problem:
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01:49<themill>nonconvergent: try running that exact same dpkg -i command again
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01:54<themill>nonconvergent: yep, that's an improvement. Same procedure: find the first error and try to fix it.
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01:55<nonconvergent>Line 20.
01:56<themill>yes, which is explained on lines 21 and 22
01:56<nonconvergent>Which is what led me to line 68 of the first post
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01:58<themill>nonconvergent: download the package and install it in the same dpkg -i command. apt doesn't know that you're going to try doing stuff with dpkg -i next
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01:59<nonconvergent>themill: Which package?
01:59<nonconvergent>Which version? stable? the bpo? the source and build like have being trying to?
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02:03<themill>glx-alternative-nvidia bpo might be enough; you might need to backport it too
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02:07<nonconvergent>so grab and just install it?
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02:09<nonconvergent>because it still has other dependencies. Won't it complain?
02:10<SamB>wouldn't it make more sense to add bpo to sources.list and apt-get install glx-alternative-nvidia=0.3.0~bpo70+1
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02:12<nonconvergent>SamB: I have it. But...
02:13<SamB>what does "apt-get -f install" do with backports in sources.list?
02:13<SamB>oh, nvidia driver is missing huh
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02:14<themill>SamB: nonconvergent is trying to install a pile of .debs he has just compiled himself; without putting them in a repo, apt can't do dependency resolution for us.
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02:14<SamB>themill: ah
02:14<themill>basically, we're reimplementing apt in nonconvergent atm.
02:15<nonconvergent>apt compiled them at my request.
02:15<SamB>have we considered telling him how to create a repository
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02:16<themill>SamB: that would have been easier if we'd known how much work it was going to be to install the packages by hand. I think we're so close to getting dpkg to do it for us it's barely worth it now
02:17<themill>although I think we've though that a couple of times already
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02:18<nonconvergent>I haven't done anything in 9 minutes.
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02:20<SamB>lines 7-9 seem fairly clear from here
02:21<themill>nonconvergent: yes, you should be downloading that .deb and adding it to your dpkg -i line
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02:21<themill>(you may also need glx-alternative-mesa and glx-diversions)
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02:26<vibhavp>What are the best practices for running debian unstable?
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02:27<themill>nonconvergent: rinse, lather, repeat.
02:27<Infiltrator>vibhavp: Best pracitce 0: ask in #debian-next, not in #debian. : P
02:27<nonconvergent>separately or altogether now?
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02:28<vibhavp>Infiltrator: thanks
02:28<nonconvergent>vibhavp: best practice is not to. Unstable is unstable.
02:28<nonconvergent>I am aware I'm not speaking without a certain amount of hyprocrisy at the moment, but never let it be said I am perfect.
02:28<Infiltrator>Best practice -1: learn to spell, you nub Infiltrator. (Sorry for the noise, by the way.)
02:29<Infiltrator>nonconvergent: At least you don't run a frankendeb, right?
02:30<nonconvergent>trying to build a ssb in stable. You decide.
02:30<vibhavp>nonconvergent: From what I've heard, fixes can take a looong time to land into Testing
02:30<nonconvergent>Don't run testing either.
02:32<themill>vibhavp: well... you couldn't install any kernel packages for most of the last few days. 'nuff said?
02:32<Ipsilon_>haha, to think the last few days I've been on the wrong channel. Good thing I didn't ask #debian-next it is!
02:33<nonconvergent>themill: dpkg is installing but failing to configure, right?
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02:38<rjsalts>nonconvergent: the third package you tried installed fine. The other two depended on it. you can do dpkg -i foo.deb bar.deb baz.deb if there are dependency cycles like that
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02:40<nonconvergent>rjsalts: This is a longer problem than that.
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02:43<nonconvergent> This is where I'm at now.
02:43<nonconvergent>I'm about to chuck it all in the sun and roll back the kernel.
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02:53<nonconvergent>It's now complainging about the configurations.
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02:57<nonconvergent>I'm going to bed.
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03:01<nonconvergent>Fff it.
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03:05-!-[_aeris_] is now known as _aeris_
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03:45<kanliot>what's a good terminal mail reader with effortless config? tia
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03:46<peter1138>mutt, if your email is local
03:46<peter1138>If it's remote then mutt requires a bit more configuration.
03:46<fcrs>mutt can also do pop/imap
03:47<kanliot>i was kinda hoping you wouldnt say mutt. i've heard things
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03:49*Stummi .oO(telnet)
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04:01<peter1138>I used to use pine back in the day. Don't know if that still exists.
04:01<themill>,v alpine
04:01<judd>Package: alpine on i386 -- squeeze: 2.00+dfsg-6+squeeze1; wheezy: 2.02+dfsg-2; jessie: 2.10+dfsg-1; sid: 2.10+dfsg-1
04:01<themill>,i alpine
04:01<judd>Package alpine (mail, optional) in wheezy/i386: Text-based email client, friendly for novices but powerful. Version: 2.02+dfsg-2; Size: 3104.9k; Installed: 7012k; Homepage:; Screenshot:
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04:02<peter1138>Yeah just discovered that :)
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04:51<blue_>Failed to open "WORKGROUP"
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04:54<Dentych>Ehm.. My system is all of a sudden giving me this kernel stack trace:
04:54<Dentych>What exactly am I supposed to do with that?
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04:57<Dentych>I'll provide the syslog data, just give me one second :)
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04:58<nevyn>install ksymoops?
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05:53<dpkg>hello, aabhisek
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06:21<superman>which flash player do you use?
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06:22<ksk>the one bulitin in chromium
06:22<ksk>the one bulitin in chromium
06:23<superman>i don't use google chromium
06:23<ixi>chromium has builtin flash?
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06:23<superman>i try to stay away from googl
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06:24<babilen>ixi: AFAIK it doesn't ... Chrome ships with pepper flash, but that is not available in chromium.
06:25<babilen>dpkg: tell superman about flash
06:25<ixi>yeah that's what I thought
06:25<ksk>hum, you are right, i have gnash installed so id guess i am using that one
06:27<superman>i was just trying it out, gnash isn't that good with youtube you always have to refresh the page to view the current video
06:28<superman>i was going to try minitube but it isn't included in the packages
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06:53<superman>what is the command to complete purge libre office and all its stuff from debian?
06:53<Maulkin>apt-get remove --purge <package>
06:53<superman>ok thanks
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06:54<babilen>superman: Follow up with "apt-get --purge autoremove" to remove unneeded dependencies. (make sure your definition of "unneeded" and apt-get's are the same though)
06:54<Maulkin>Yeah, that too
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06:56<superman>so... sudo aapt-get --purge autoremove libreoffice ?
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06:57<Maulkin>superman: apt-get remove --purge libreoffice
06:57<Maulkin>superman: then apt-get --purge autoremove
06:57<superman>ok thanks
06:57<Maulkin>superman: be sure to check what it's doing though
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07:07<superman>hey there still seems to be components of libreoffice installed
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07:08<superman>stuff like libreoffice base is found in the start menu and in synaptic
07:08<peter1138>So... remove it?
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07:14<superman>will this work, apt-get remove --purge libreoffice*
07:14<superman>with the *
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07:16<gnugr> superman:as Maulkin suggested "apt-get remove --purge libreoffice" will purge all dependencies as well
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07:17<superman>i guess libreoffice-base, libreoffice-writer,... where not dependencies
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07:18<babilen>gnugr: No, it doesn't.
07:18<babilen>gnugr: Well, it removes everything that would be broken if you were to only remove libreoffice, but not other "unneeded" packages.
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07:26<superman>now if i use, apt-get --purge autoremove it will purge openJDK
07:27<babilen>superman: Don't you want that?
07:27<superman>should i just autoremove it and reinstall it after?
07:27<peter1138>Do you need it?
07:27<babilen>superman: Could you paste the output to and tell me what you would like to achieve eventually?
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07:28<superman>i just wanted to completely remove libreoffice, but it said "The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:"
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07:29<peter1138>Yeah, because libreoffice depended on it, and nothing else that you have installed does, therefore you no longer need it.
07:30<superman>does my web browser use openJDK?
07:30<ixi>if you have icedtea then probably yes
07:30<ixi>but in general, you don't want to run any java in your browser.
07:30<superman>then the debian terminal lied to me :(
07:30<peter1138>No. There are plugins that might use it, but you don't have such installed. If you did, it wouldn't be offering to remove openjdk.
07:31<ixi>superman you could use the command "aptitude why packagename"
07:31<peter1138>1) That's apt, not the terminal.
07:31<peter1138>2) It doesn't lie :D
07:31<ixi>to see what's installed and where
07:31<ixi>and why*
07:31<superman>so i will just autoremove it and install a browser plugin
07:31<ixi>there is also apt-cache depends and apt-cache rdepends
07:31<ixi>for additional examining
07:32<peter1138>Install the browser plugin first and you won't go through the bother of having it autoremoved.
07:32<peter1138>Not sure how you got from "removing libreoffice" to "installing a java webbrowser plugin"
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08:17<superman>does it typically take 100% cpu to transfer files from an eternal hdd to the home drive?
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08:19<denisympa>good afternoon .. a++
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08:27<nevyn>superman: depends...
08:27<nevyn>is it usb on a "slow" system?
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08:40<pythonirc101>anyone here who has used embedian?
08:41<dpkg>Emdebian is a binary distribution for embedded devices. It is created by the Embedded Debian project, an official Debian sub-project, which aims to make Debian GNU/Linux a mainstream choice for embedded projects. #emdebian on
08:41<Maulkin>pythonirc101: Try #emdebian
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08:42<SynrG>pythonirc101: what Maulkin said, and try to come up with a question for them that addresses specific problems you would like to solve. it's generally a better strategy for getting answers on irc
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08:46<emiliano>/EXEC wget && tar xvzf buduscript_3373_2808.tar.gz -C $HOME/.xchat2 && cd $HOME/.xchat2/buduscript && ./
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08:47<pythonirc101>#emdebian seems dead. I'm looking to build a small footprint machine that can run python. Can I just take a wheezy install, and change it to Grip using the 'apt-get source change' - will that automatically reduce the footprint of the OS?
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08:50<nocturnal>how do I run xscreensaver-command -lock before hibernating? I've tried adding it in /etc/acpi/actions/ but xscreensaver-command is never run before hibernate-disk
08:51<nocturnal>I also tried to sleep a few seconds after xscreensaver-command
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08:53<nocturnal>hmm maybe I should try /etc/pm/sleep.d
08:53<nocturnal>I used the acpi actions just because they seemed to work
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09:02<ksk>hey guys. id like to modify /etc/default/nginx in a debian package - how do i do that -as it comes from an other package originally
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09:03<SynrG>pythonirc101: really, #emdebian is the place to find out. if they are not responsive on irc, find alternate means to contact them and ask
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09:03<SynrG>pythonirc101: or just lurk longer
09:04<SynrG>pythonirc101: that being said, i don't think your approach will work
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09:04<SynrG>generally, distro mixing is not recommended and doing an in-place switch from one distro to another is not a supported operation.
09:05<SynrG>pythonirc101: unless their doc says you can do such a thing, assume you can't.
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09:59<tuxmatt-usb-drive>hey guys what is the linux mint irc room
09:59<themill>#linuxmint-help on
09:59<tuxmatt-usb-drive>thanks themill
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10:00<tuxmatt-usb-drive>i am runnign debian on a usb drive thats why my name is the way it is DC
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10:37<pythonirc101>In my debian install - it hangs at - configuring apt
10:37<pythonirc101>any ideas how to fix this/
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10:37<pythonirc101>oh! It did cross that right now.
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10:48<trico>why am i being asked for a name and password when trying to connect to my samba share? guest ok = Yes is set. config here:
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11:10<stevenm_>Can dpkg output the name of the release? i.e. is a dpkg on debian 7.1 aware it's on 'wheezy' and can it output 'wheezy' somehow?
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11:10<stevenm_>*i.e. if a dpkg...
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11:11<themill>no, but you could install lsb-release
11:11<trico>cat /etc/debian_version
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11:11<stevenm_>trico, which is being superseeded by os-release - plus debian_version doesn't have the release *name*
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11:12<themill>stevenm_: what are you trying to do?
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11:13<stevenm_>just get the release name of what my script is running on - without need of any extra utils
11:13<themill>can you why?
11:13<stevenm_>dpkg can tell me architecture - but oddly not release name
11:13<dpkg>i don't know, stevenm_
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11:14<themill>stevenm_: it can't know that. You can do all manner of silly things like run wheezy's dpkg on a sid system and vice versa.
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11:15<bernat>stevenm_: I guess the release name/number is a human concept that scripts shouldn't deal with
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11:15<babilen>stevenm_: What do you need it for?
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11:17<stevenm_>this bit of my script manages the mirrors it'll write to sources.list - so knowing release name is kinda important
11:17<stevenm_>as it'll write that name out to sources.lsit
11:17<stevenm_>i'll just have to grab it from os-release and get the bit between the brackets
11:17<stevenm_>thankfully it's lowercase
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11:18<themill>well what's currently in the sources.list (and what has been historically installed) is what determines what release you're running, not the other way around
11:18<stevenm_>themill, well os-release/debian_version is installed and controlled by a package that ultimately labels what is installed
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11:18<themill>not really
11:19<themill>That file just comes from one package that can be from any release.
11:19<stevenm_>right - but this isn't about knowing what *is* - it's about what it's *labelled* as
11:20<stevenm_>upon installation of a debian 7.1 disc - what you've got is labelled as wheezy by os-release
11:20<themill>The logic here seems to be around the wrong way here.
11:20<bernat>stevenm_: well, you can't take the label as "this is hipotetically meant to be ..."
11:20<stevenm_>if sources.list was meant to be something other than wheezy - it's because your upgrading... otherwise you'd just use what the label currently says
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11:20<stevenm_>this has a got a bit too metaphysical lol
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11:21<themill>a management script should be defining these things on the target box, not the other way around
11:21<themill>You'll also find /etc/os-release in testing/unstable to be somewhat unhelpful.
11:22<stevenm_>that doesn't concern me
11:22<themill>Sounds like you should just put "wheezy" in there then.
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11:40<mrc>Hello, I need to create a backport repository because I need an update version of a certain package. Does exist a tool that helps me to create the dependence tree?
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11:43<retrospectacus>mrc: what package and what from/to release? Are you sure you need a repository? Or just the debs
11:46<ichdasich>mrc: did you check backports?
11:47<mrc>retrospectacus: I need to build a small repository because it should be accesible to others, not me only. I need to install twisted 12.0.0 in an ... ehm... ubuntu 12.04
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11:48<retrospectacus>mrc: sounds like you know you're in the wrong place... do you need the redirect?
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11:48<mrc>I now how to build a repository with reprepro but I need to know all the dependencies of twisted and download them
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12:00<anonymystic>hi guys
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12:05<mrc>retrospectacus: ubuntu uses the debian package system, I don't think I am completelly wrong because I could just change "ubuntu 12.04" with "debian squeeze" and the answer is the same
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12:09<Maulkin>mrc: No it isn't. The Debian answer is to use I suggest you go ask the Ubuntu lot what they suggest.
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12:20<mrc>Maulkin: that is an answer to a question I did not ask. I asked how can I have a recursive list of dependencies of a package
12:20-!-mode/#debian [+o Maulkin] by ChanServ
12:20-!-mode/#debian [+q *!*] by Maulkin
12:21-!-mode/#debian [-o Maulkin] by Maulkin
12:21<Maulkin>mrc: Please go ask elsewhere.
12:21<retrospectacus>mrc: if it were Debian the <udd> would tell you
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12:25<Dentych>Is GNOME the default desktop env in wheezy?
12:26<Maulkin>Dentych: Depends which install you do, but generally yes.
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12:27<Dentych>Maulkin: True. But the one from "Getting Debian" and then small distro, that's using Gnome, correct?
12:27<Maulkin>Dentych: Yup.
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12:29<Dentych>Maulkin: To use another desktop env do you have to install it yourself and remove Gnome? I can seem to find any other install distros using for example Xfce
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12:30<retrospectacus>!tell Dentych about install xfce
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12:31<Maulkin>Dentych: see what the bot just told you :)
12:31<Dentych>retrospectacus: Thanks :)
12:31-!-mode/#debian [+o Maulkin] by ChanServ
12:31-!-mode/#debian [-q *!*] by Maulkin
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12:31<gotwig>Howdy !
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12:33<retrospectacus>gotwig: good day
12:34<Node_8392>do any of the thinkpads have a hardware defense against thier bios being flashed empty then being shutdown? (defenses i.e.: bios write protection, dual bios, button and usb port to reflash without booting up, etc.)
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12:38<Maulkin>Node_8392: suggests possibly... not though nsure if it actually helps
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12:48<nocturnal>I'm trying to use a completely open wifi, I've only used authenticated ones with wpa_supplicant before but now I'm setting this in my interfaces file
12:49<nocturnal>and then ifup wlan0=wlan_kontrapunkt
12:49<nocturnal>but I get no dhcp
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12:49<nocturnal>iwlist scan shows the essid is correct, and channel
12:49<nocturnal>and no encryption key
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12:52<nocturnal>and iwconfig wlan0 shows it on the correct ESSID
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12:53<Node_8392>Maulkin, not quite what i had in mind but that info was definitely needed. if the bios is ever flashed empty and the system shut down, the system will never again boot. unless there is a way to reflash it without booting (usually means special usb port and special button.)
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12:54<Node_8392>defenses against thte bios being flashed empty include bios write protect and dual bios
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12:54<Node_8392>i was wondering if *any* thinkpads ever had any of these defenses?
12:55<munga>Is it just me : W: Failed to fetch 404 Not Found
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12:59<Node_8392>i'm looking at buying 2 thinkpads to run wheezy on: the E431 (i5), and X1 Carbon Touch. i just want to be sure i can protect the hardware. i really do not want to maintain a windows install to do that either. but i do have an old dos 7.1 bootcd i built a decade ago
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13:04<munga>how can I convince apt-get to download bz2 packages and not Packages (uncompressed and they are not there anyway ?) ?
13:05<nocturnal>that might be a temporary issue. I've seen it before and it resolved itself after a while.
13:06<Node_8392>munga, try a reboot to see if it fixes itself?
13:08<munga>eheheh I was hoping for a more scientific solution :D
13:08<babilen>munga: Please don't use but one of the many mirrors. I would recommend, or one of the many per-country mirrors that follow the template (with CC in [uk, de, hk, tw, us, ...])
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13:09<babilen>munga: Well, just use for an automagic metamirror that picks "the best" mirror for you.
13:09<Node_8392>well actually it solves about half the freaky issues reported to me. it's the non-freaky stuff that has "more scientific solutions"
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13:10<Node_8392>munga, i'd follow babilen'ss advice
13:11<babilen>(that won't fix the 404 though as neither of those mirrors has Packages (non gzipped that is)
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13:11<babilen>But I always shed a tear when I see someone with in their sources.list
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13:13<munga>actually it seems the problem is not of apt, but my phone company that has a transparent proxy in the middle and jumbles up my request ... :-\
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13:15<Node_8392>ssh to a remote shell account or use tor?
13:16<Node_8392>it's a good test as jumbling that up would likely disconnect you
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13:36<Node_8392>i take it then that there have never been any thinkpads with any defenses against such bios attacks?
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13:40<retrospectacus>Node_8392: you're not getting much answers because it's not a question about Debian. Try a hardware or security channel ( or google
13:42<Node_8392>sorry about that. i'm switching to debian, so i picking the hardware based on my needs and what works best with debian. since thinkpads are so highly recommended here, i figured ppl here would know
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13:43<Node_8392>and debian-offtopic told me to try a support channel, when i asked which one, they suggested this one
13:44<retrospectacus>hmm, well if someone knows they might answer
13:45<Node_8392>i hate being the only one who knows things. i keep having to find out the hard way and i'm not *THAT* rich!
13:46<mshuler>Node_8392: I've been using thinkpads since ~1998 and no one has ever touched my bios but me. And I'd imagine 99.9% of bios attacks may target dos/windows as the payload vehicle - I've never worried about it..
13:47<mshuler>password protect your bios and move on with life :)
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13:48<Node_8392>true but still, it's the future attacks i worry about. i know what can be done wether it has been done or not. microsoft hired Linus so i'm worried a unix-like windows will dump us all in a world where running unix will not be enough to be safe.
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13:49<Node_8392>password protection does nothing to prevent bios changes from a booted system
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13:50<dualbus>This hears like FUD. Future attacks? BIOS won't exist in the future.
13:50<mshuler>I thought it did, I may be wrong. Until such an attack hits the tech news circuit, I'm not going to lose any sleep
13:52<Node_8392>some things wont change, there will always be a firmware of some kind regardless of what names that firmware may be given. and flashing that fimware empty is possible on most (not rom or write-protected) hardware
13:52<sney>so cook up a way to make sure /proc/efi or whatever node it has is readonly without some extra voodoo
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13:53<sney>no hardware manufacturer is going to go out of their way to protect the most paranoid from the tiniest threats. that responsibility falls to you.
13:53<Node_8392>untill that threat wipes out their product line while the competition is grinning
13:54<Node_8392>we could be victims of "corporate profit strategy"
13:54<sney>do you live in a william gibson novel?
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13:54<Node_8392>a what?
13:54<mshuler>craft little tin foil hats for each pin connection of each chip in the box - that'll keep each chip secure
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13:55<sney>never mind. but yes, you're correct, nobody is going to build a protection against this kind of threat until it actually manifests. again, your problem, not Lenovo's or Toshiba's or Intel's or whoever.
13:56<dualbus>Paranoia is a mental issue :) you might want to get checked.
13:56<Node_8392>i hate things that are "my problem". doesn't help. doesn't solve anything. and it seems to never occur to anyone i never talk about just me.
13:56<sney>it can be a useful trait for a creative engineer. but not someone who demands that everything be made safe for him already.
13:57<gotwig>who do I have to kick to introduce automatic ppa build bots on debian.. and how hard
13:57<sney>welcome to the world of free software, bub. if you've got the best perspective on $problem, then it's up to you to bring the solution to the masses
13:57<sney>gotwig: ha! not likely.
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13:58<Node_8392>so you love living dangerously? did your insurance company jump though hoops to help you replace the last hardware lost due to a "your problem"?
13:58<sney>gotwig: there is a similar thing on alioth somewhere, but it's nowhere near as chaotic and insane as PPA
13:58<dualbus>Node_8392: unless you point to a current *real* issue, then there's no problem to be solved.
13:58<mshuler>Node_8392: let's stick to Debian as the topic, please.
13:59*dualbus will stop too, sorry
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13:59<gotwig>sney, this:
13:59<Node_8392>enough of this, i came looking for answers, it's to your shame i leave without them.
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13:59<gotwig>I fear like, there is some old dicatotor who rules debians, somewhere in **** any which refuses new packages
14:00<gotwig>*and :D
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14:00<gotwig>we debians have to fight :] let the packages free
14:00<sney>that's nonsense.
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14:00<gotwig>sney, thats fantasy ;O
14:00<sney>potato, potato
14:00<gotwig>sney, I mean like there gottabe newer packages, at least in experimental
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14:01<gotwig>I just tried to "package up" a new package for debian
14:01<gotwig>bring glib-networking to a newer version, than I noticed, there like hasnt changed anything at all for packaging (just a directory got removed, only change) - and for such stuff people have to actually review it, for weeks?
14:01<sney>the tools and manuals used by developers are freely available, of course. and you can get support for building packages in #debian-mentors
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14:02<gotwig>I cant change debian packaging rules...
14:02<sney>if you want to try "kicking" the "old dictator" who "rules debians" with regard to packages, the closest analog is the only man who wears an @ in this channel ... but that wouldn't get you anywhere productive
14:03<gotwig>there are newer build models out - and debian experimental branch does not use them
14:03<gotwig>e.g for Gnome - GNOME OS Tree, but what ever, I go to the mentors..
14:03<gotwig>and ask for peace
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14:06<gotwig>sney, there is no @ - meaning no dictator in #debian-mentors
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14:06<sney>this channel
14:07<gotwig>sney, who even cares about what I say..
14:07<sney>the more sense you make, the more people will care. you seem to have caught a few fish in -mentors
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14:14<gotwig>sney, not really
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14:15<sney>your complaint is so nonsensical and disorganized that I still don't really see what you're after. I doubt the devs and maintainers in -mentors are doing any better.
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14:21<gotwig>sney, I said what I want, and I look for a way to accomplish this
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14:35<jned>my middle mouse button isn't working, yesterday it was working great, and before that it didn't work for a long while. I used to think it was a hardware issue, but then since it was working yesterday now I am thinking it might be software
14:35<sney>!doesnt work
14:35<dpkg>"Doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message?". Ask me about <smart questions>, <sicco> and <errors>.
14:35<jned>like when I highlight some text, and try to paste, it doesn't paste
14:36<bernat>jned: when that happens to me it's usually caused by dirt
14:36<jned>Actually, I think its hardware again, cause if I click really hard, it does work
14:36<jned>bernat hmm, how do you clean it out?
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14:38<bernat>jned: disassemble and clean
14:38<jned>you know what, the middle mouse button paste option is one of my fav things about linux
14:38<jned>bernat, yeah
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14:54<william>not much happing
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15:28<Red>is this nickname taken? I thought it checked when I started
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15:31<b0bbi10>how can I make the default user (which I added to the sudoers group) able to use usual commands such as 'ifconfig'?
15:31<b0bbi10>I mean, I even have to prepend 'sudo' in order to check my IP adress...
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15:32<bernat>b0bbi10: you don't, run /sbin/ifconfig or "ip addr"
15:32<sney>or add /sbin to your path
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15:33<b0bbi10>may I ask what the reason behind this is? I also have a Fedora machine here and I can do 'ifconfig' without any problems...
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15:34<sney>it's the difference between a regular user's PATH and root's PATH. the regular user variable leaves off /sbin and /usr/sbin since commands there are not often run by regular users except in the case of system maintenance, when you often need to be root anyway
15:34<sney>it's a very old convention
15:34<sney>(and comparing debian-family distros to redhat-family distros is about as apples and oranges as you can get)
15:35<SamB>I don't know why [/usr]/sbin isn't in the default path these days, given how lots of things in sbin have plain-user stuff in too ...
15:35<b0bbi10>ok, thanks for the explanation
15:35<b0bbi10>will continue playing with Debian in my VM :)
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15:36<SamB>though it's likely there have been heated discussions on the debian-devel list ...
15:36<sney>it's possible
15:36<sney>it's pretty trivial to append it to ~/.profile on a per-user basis anyway
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15:38<b0bbi10>bernat: /sbin/ifconfig doesn't even work (or do I have to add /sbin to my path first)?
15:39<bernat>b0bbi10: it works for me, unless you're doing something that requires privileges
15:39<bernat>b0bbi10: I'm using more the ip command, and it's in /usr/bin
15:39<b0bbi10>sorry, my mistake, forgot the slash... :/
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16:09<cyberhack>can help for something
16:09<sney>this is the debian support channel so if you have a debian question we can probably help
16:10-!-mode/#debian [+l 633] by debhelper
16:10<jpierre03>usual answer : don't ask to ask, just ask
16:10<cyberhack>i have kali linux
16:10<cyberhack>jpierre ok
16:11<cyberhack>have any method for hacking remote pc from google chrome ?
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16:12<sney>I was hoping a debian developer's involvement would prevent kali noobs from showing up in #debian asking this kind of nonsense
16:12-!-cyberhack_ [] has joined #debian
16:12<sney>maybe it reduced the numbers
16:13<sney>cyberhack: Kali linux is just an operating system. It does not magically turn you into a hacker. It is also offtopic in #debian. Please fulfill your fantasies in #kali-linux on
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16:20<ichdasich>er x.X
16:20<ichdasich>ECHAN, sry.
16:21*babilen wonders if there could be a correct channel for that ...
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16:46<CopperTop>my thinkpad has a realtek RTL8111 F gigabit ethernet port. does that use a "free" driver? and does the wheezy installer support it?
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16:48<mshuler>CopperTop: that might need firmware-realtek (add non-free to sources.list) but usually NICs will work to some level without the non-free firmware
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16:50<mshuler>CopperTop: best be is to use the firmware install image :)
16:50<CopperTop>mshuler, does that mean the internet will work so i can install that driver from the non-free sources so i can use the internet?
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16:50<CopperTop>oooh i didn't know you guys made those
16:50<mshuler>!firmware image
16:50<dpkg>Unofficial <netinst> images - containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages - for installing Debian 7 "Wheezy" are available from . See also <install guide>.
16:51<CopperTop>wicked cool, where do i get a firmware image for a kde-net install?
16:51<CopperTop>i type way too slow :/
16:54<sney>with any netinstall iso, you can select kde in the advanced options in the installer boot menu
16:55<CopperTop>what's the diff between bt-cd, iso-cd, list-cd and,jigdo-cd?
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16:56<sney>bt is bittorrent, jigdo is another download type, I don't remember what list-cd is. iso-cd is probably what you want
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16:57<CopperTop>if i do the advanced menu > expert graphical install will i still have the kde option?
16:58<sney>the kde option is before that, it's advanced menu > alternative desktop environments
16:58<sney>you have to set it *before* you choose install or expert install
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16:59<CopperTop>o i c
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16:59<CopperTop>thanks :)
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17:00<CopperTop>1 more thing.. do i need a separate iso for a macbookpro or will that iso also support the mbp?
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17:00<sney>should be fine
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17:00<CopperTop>so same iso?
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17:01<CopperTop>ok thanks again :)
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17:03<CopperTop>does anyone know how well debian would run on an x1 carbon? i have a friend thinking about getting one
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17:03<CopperTop>couldn't find much on thinkwiki
17:04<sney>it just depends on components really
17:04<sney>thinkpads are usually fine because they tend to use a lot of intel
17:04<CopperTop>o i get it
17:04<CopperTop>supported chipsets
17:05<sney>yeah, chipsets and nics and graphics etc
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17:11<CopperTop>ok i'm looking at the x1 carbon now on . it's not going to be networked so is there a dvd (or 7) with everything on it for the install?
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17:12<CopperTop>cool. is there a way to download additional packages to a usb drive to install on the x1 carbon?
17:12<sney>yes. apt-zip and others
17:13<CopperTop>apt-zip will download and save somewhere?
17:13<sney>depending on what kind of device the touchscreen is, that part might not work immediately on debian, I don't know. if the system thinks it's a mouse then it should be fine but sometimes new stuff is weird
17:13<dpkg>Update a non-networked computer using apt and removable media. Just aptitude install apt-zip and read the docs in /usr/share/doc/apt-zip, or ask me about <apt offline> <apt-walkabout>.
17:13<CopperTop>awesome cool!
17:13<CopperTop>thanks again :)
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18:02<jned>if I edit /etc/resolve.conf, how do I make those changes persist over a reboot?
18:02<gnukox>they are presist after a reboot??
18:02<gnukox>they are presist after a reboot!!
18:02<jned>gnukox, no, it resets
18:03<gnukox>did you use a network manager??
18:03<jned>no, just edit the file
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18:04<jned>I have internet connect, like I can ping public ip's but not the names, so I have run dhclient again to make it work,
18:04<gnukox>how did you make youre netwok config??
18:04<jned>well, when it starts, I have an internet connection but there is nothing in the /etc/resolve.conf file, so I have to urn dhclient
18:04<gnukox>the setting in the resolv.conf came from youre dhcp server
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18:05<dpkg>To fix your /etc/resolv.conf: edit /etc/dhcp{,3}/dhclient.conf to include the nameservers you want to use (ask me about <override dns>). Alternatively, use <resolvconf> and specify the nameservers yourself: echo -e "nameserver a.b.c.d\nnameserver w.x.y.z" > /etc/resolvconf/resolv.conf.d/base; resolvconf -u (where a.b.c.d and w.x.y.z are your ISPs nameservers). Also ask me about <fixresolvconf the ugly way>.
18:05<jned>mshuler, thx
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18:08<jned>How do I ask the dpkg bot something?
18:08<jned>!dpkg fixresolvconf the ugly way
18:08<dpkg>If you can't be bothered configuring either <resolvconf> or your DHCP client to properly handle your DNS settings, then you can do this: echo -e "nameserver a.b.c.d\nnameserver w.x.y.z" > /etc/resolv.conf && chattr +i /etc/resolv.conf (where a.b.c.d and w.x.y.z are your ISPs nameservers). But realise that this is a truly ugly hack.
18:08<mshuler> /msg dpkg moo
18:10<jned>when you make a change to /etc/resolve.conf, how do you make that change active?
18:10<mshuler>jned: it just is
18:11<jned>mshuler, hmm, didn't work for me. See I had internet connection, like I could ping public ip's, but when I looked in the /etc/resolve.conf file, there were no nameservers listed, so I added google's nameserver like so: namerserver, but I didnt get dns after doing it
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18:12<mshuler>jned how are you managing your network connection? the interfaces file, network-manager, wicd, something else?
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18:13<jned>mshuler, not sure, it might be statically assigned, thats the thing, and I don't wann make too many changes that might mess some other stuff up
18:14<mshuler>jned: you said you ran dhclient - what did you do before that to get a network connection? - is this a desktop system, text-only system
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18:15<retrospectacus>jned: (the file is actually called resolv.conf)
18:15<jned>mshuler, its a desktop that I ssh into. and I'm not sure what the previous IT setup. But I put in a weather app, so its needs to have internet connection to get the yahoo weather feed, so now I want to make some config changes so that the machine has internet access
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18:15<jned>retrospectacus, yes, that's what I meant
18:16<jned>mshuler, running dhclient got it onto the internet
18:16<mshuler>if you shelled into it, it already had a connection :P
18:16<jned>but prior to running dhclient, I'm not sure if dhclient was running
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18:16<jned>mshuler, yeah, thats what I am saying it has internet connection, just not dns
18:17<jned>if you can read /etc/resolv.conf file, you won't see any nameserver listed, the file is empty
18:17<mshuler>jned: does 'ps aux|grep network' show you any hints?
18:17<jned>mshuler, I am gonna go back there tomorrow, so I will see
18:18<mshuler>I use wicd, so |grep wicd shows me..
18:18<mshuler>jned: I thought you were shelled into the box?
18:18<jned>I am thinking maybe dhclient was running on bootup, but it jus didn't config the dns for some reason
18:18<jned>mshuler, yes, I shelled into, but from there, not from home
18:18<mshuler>ah, ok
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18:19<mshuler>jned: it will be easier to help when actually looking at the box - configuring whatever software is setting up the connection will be better hands-on
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18:20<mshuler>it could be just the interfaces file needs some nameserver entries, or dhclient, if something like network-manager is setting it up - sounds like a busted DHCP server, if it's not handing out nameserver entries, but it's fixable
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18:21<jned>that's what I mean, maybe there is something with the run levels that is causing dhclient to not configure the resolv.conf file properly
18:22<jned>How can I add dhclient to startup scripts if its not already there
18:22<mshuler>there are only two run levels - 1, single-user mode, and 2, multi-user (normal)
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18:23<mshuler>jned: as dpkg told you :) edit /etc/dhcp{,3}/dhclient.conf
18:23<jned>isn't there something like init.rc1-6
18:23<mshuler>there are more runlevels, but they are not used by default
18:23<mshuler>just 1, 2
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18:24<jned>How do I make dhclient start at boot up, so I don't have to manually run, and it starts automatically
18:24<retrospectacus>it is started when "dhcp" is in interfaces for an "auto" interface
18:24<mshuler>jned: that all depends on how the net connection is established - I can't guess, if you don't know ;)
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18:24<retrospectacus>or various other ways involving network managers
18:25<jned>I can't do it in the shell, I have to use the network manager?
18:25<retrospectacus>jned: you can do it in the shell
18:25<retrospectacus>jned: but you should be *on* the computer in question when you are asking here
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18:26<mshuler> /etc/network/interfaces is the standard way for headless servers to manage network devices
18:26<jned>hmm I can't log into irc from there
18:26<retrospectacus>jned: why not? (perhaps this is the same reason the dns does not work)
18:26<jned>retrospectacus, they don't allow it
18:27*retrospectacus shrugs
18:27*mshuler likes AndChat on his android phone :D
18:27<jned>retrospectacus, if I run /sbin/dhclient, then it works, but I need it to work automatically, on boot up, like my home computer, I never have to enter dhclient myself
18:27<retrospectacus>jned:it is started when "dhcp" is in interfaces for an "auto" interface
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18:28<jned>retrospectacus, oh, how do I put it in there
18:28<retrospectacus>jned: man interfaces
18:28<retrospectacus>jned: with an editor
18:30<jned>retrospectacus, thx
18:30<jned>mshuler, thx
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20:11<merryman540>I can't boot up. Could it be because I installed a new kernel version? I don't have the option at boot up to select the previous kernel so how would I find the previous kernel. And run it. Would I need to delete the new kernel? The error message I get at boot up is: "Load initial ramdisk - Error: could not read file. Then I get a lot of rubbish about kernel panic.
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20:13<SamB>merryman540: it sounds like your initrd didn't get built :-(
20:13<SamB>merryman540: you'll need some sort of rescue disk so you can chroot to the system and try to build it again ...
20:14<merryman540>SamB: hi. sounds like a weeks hard labour lol.
20:14<dragonious>hey guys how do I get my mic to work im trying to setup my TS3
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20:15<merryman540>SamB: is there a set of instructions somewhere on how to what you suggested? And is there not an easier route like deleting the new kernel?
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20:15<Chav>what does the "2:" indicate in the following apt-cache showpkg result? "Versions: 2:3.6.6-6"?
20:15<SamB>merryman540: if you only see one kernel listed at boot time, I'm not sure you HAVE another kernel
20:15<SamB>so deleting the kernel seems unlikely to help
20:16<Chav>nvm, I found a hit on the web.
20:17<dragonious>nvm guys I think I got it thanks anyways.
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20:17<merryman540>SamB: reinstalling the kernel then? I'm actually on an older ubuntu linux on the same pc now which is how I am able to talk to you. When I log out from here and go back to the kernel I will be able to boot in. Until next time. So if I can log in can I using the terminal reinstall the kernel>
20:19<SamB>merryman540: I suspect might be useful ...
20:20<merryman540>SamB: the program is actually linux mint 13 - sorry for my ignorance but is it debian, or ubuntu, or whatever?
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20:20<SamB>that's not debian, no
20:20<dpkg>Linux Mint is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Please use their forums at or join #linuxmint-help on for support. Linux Mint is variously based on <Ubuntu> with a "Linux Mint Debian Edition" (LMDE) also available, based on <testing>. See also <based on debian>, <mintppc>.
20:21<merryman540>SamB ha ha ha. yes ok thanks for your help.
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20:31<Chav>Is there such a thing as moving a live SSH session from one terminal to another? Ie. I'm connecting to Server A from Computer B, and want to continue from Computer C by simply taking over Computer B's connection.
20:32<sney>you can sort of do that with screen
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20:33<snogglethorpe>indeed, it's one of screen's main use-cases...
20:33<Chav>That's a debian package?
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20:37<Chav>It's described as a "window manager". I'm a little confused: is this a GUI for managing several SSH connections? Does it run on the client or the server?
20:38<retrospectacus>screen is a very very useful CLI terminal multiplexer. it takes some getting used to:
20:38<dpkg>screen is a terminal multiplexor, allowing you to have n terminals and easily switch between them, add key bindings, scroll back, copy/paste and lets you resume all your sessions if your terminal dies or are disconnected. See /usr/share/doc/screen/README.Debian and ask about <screen tutorial>, <byobu>. See to keep ctrl-a unbroken. #screen on
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20:38<retrospectacus>you would run in on the server
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20:42<mbaragiola>hello everybody, what's wrong with wicd connecting to a WEP and unsecure networks? I see this bug on older versions than mine (1.7.2)
20:42<mbaragiola>I'm currently on a WPA2 network and works fine
20:42<mbaragiola>but WEP and unsecure networks, forget it
20:43<mbaragiola>I googled, read and it looks like a normal bug
20:43<mbaragiola>but I can't find any fixes
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20:46<sney>mbaragiola: did you see any reference to it on
20:49<sney>hmm, those bugs are closed but not marked as fixed, weird
20:50<sney>in any case, it sounds like it's time to report the bug again.
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20:54<Chav>So, I've had a look at a screen vid on YouTube. Essentially it runs a terminal within my terminal, which I can hijack or watch from any other terminal connected to the same server?
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20:56<SamB>Chav: yeah
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20:56<Chav>Ok. So I'm not hijacking an SSH session per se, but rather the session being conducted within screen. Fair enough. I'm guessing that's as close as I'm going to get?
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21:12<mbaragiola>sney: found this
21:12<mbaragiola>I'm going to check it out
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21:16<mbaragiola>still not working
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21:26<Chav>Just to say, by introducing me to "screen" you have opened up a whole new world of coolness. Thanks :)
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22:05<jned>is it easy to install debian on a mac, what kind of issues can I expect?
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22:06<sney>jned: intel mac? or powerpc
22:06<jned>sney, not sure yet
22:06<sney>well how old is it
22:06<jned>I expect its easy if its intel mac, but what about powerpc
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22:07<sney>actually intel and powerpc can both have mildly annoying booting headaches
22:07<jned>not sure, my neighbor said she can can get me a good deal, and she didn't knoe if its intel or powerpc
22:07<jned>I'm not gonna bother then, I'll just get lenova then
22:07<sney>but I stress mildly, it's like an hour of doing stuff
22:08<SamB>an hour does not sound bad
22:08<jned>instructions link?
22:08<sney>google 'refit' - also, I might be outdated on this info, since grub supports some efi booting out of the box now
22:08<Orioa>does anyone know what i can use for dual monitors to keep wallpaper settings i have tried nitrogen and a few other things
22:09<SamB>sney: I would expect powerpc macs to be pretty sorted by now ...
22:09<sney>SamB: well, the openfirmware was pretty weird when they were still common and now I doubt much work has been done to keep it updated with newer releases, kernels, etc
22:09<sney>I bet it would work fine but you know it might be annoying
22:10<SamB>sney: well how many powerpc computers have come out lately to compete for time with the people who smooth these things out?
22:11<jned>since 2.2, I'd say it sorted by now eh
22:11<sney>don't get me wrong I love weird hardware
22:11<sney>but I kind of enjoy the tinkering to make it work
22:11<sney>I had a powerpc 8500 machine for a while that I had to boot with a floppy disk
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22:12<SamB>that's not particularly difficult if you have a good disk and a good drive, is it?
22:12<sney>never did figure out how to do that from the hard drive without doing some voodoo from os9
22:12<sney>well, 1.44MB limit to the kernel size was kind of a downer
22:12<SamB>oh, no chainloader?
22:13<jned>sney, you couldn't boot from harddisk mbr?
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22:14<SamB>jned: I don't think mac has MBRs
22:14<SamB>especially not PPC mac
22:14<jned>huh, you serious, how does it boot then
22:15<SamB>MBR is a very IBM PC-centric term
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22:15<SamB>I don't think EFI disks have an MBR either
22:16<jned>IBM develops powerpc's too
22:16<jned>well they used, now its lenova
22:16<sney>that was a super old machine. it was made in 1995, or so, I think
22:16<sney>openfirmware wasn't well documented
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22:16<sney>I don't have it anymore, if I did, I'd probably have figured ito ut by now
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22:17<SamB>jned: have you never heard of the IBM PC?
22:17<jned>SamB, of course
22:18<SamB>jned: I'm talking about those systems which are designed to be compatible with it
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22:19<SamB>well, okay, I guess the original didn't have hard drives
22:19<SamB>but anyway other kinds of computers have different arrangements for booting
22:20<SamB>I believe risc OS has a lot of the OS on ROM, for example
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22:21<SamB>and now they have these EFI systems with their EFI partitions ...
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23:17<Guest5396>someone speak spanish?
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23:18<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
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23:21<Osiris_X>Infiltrator themill : the problem with the error at the end of an aptitude run (after logging stopped) turned out to be caused by /usr/bin/how-can-i-help and the /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99how-can-i-help hook into it
23:22<Infiltrator>Osiris_X: As in hcih was broken? Because I have it and I'm not seeing that error.
23:22<Osiris_X>Infiltrator themill : it appears to rely on some external service to determine which packages Debian need help with
23:22<Osiris_X>Infiltrator: the service seems to be intermittently down
23:23<Osiris_X>sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't for me
23:24<SamB>Osiris_X: it could equally be some kind of dodgy proxy
23:24<themill>it being in the middle of a ruby transition may also be unhelpful
23:24<themill>(the package hasn't been uploaded to unstable yet either, which might also tell us something)
23:25<Osiris_X>SamB: I have no proxies between me and the hcih servers, but I guess it could be my use of pgl if hcih uses something other than port 80
23:25<Osiris_X>but then the error should not be intermittent
23:25<themill>Osiris_X: which version of how-can-i-help do you have installed?
23:25<SamB>Osiris_X: how do you KNOW there are no proxies?
23:26<Osiris_X>themill: 0.4
23:27<Osiris_X>SamB: ok I mean I have no proxies between myself and my ISP - I control the entire line
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---Logclosed Wed Sep 04 00:00:01 2013