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#debian IRC Logs for 2013-09-18

---Logopened Wed Sep 18 00:00:25 2013
00:01<topcyde>drk: reinstall::nukeitfromorbit
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00:11<topcyde>I just want to hand out a big thank you for the help , and the more I learn about debian and everything that goes into it; I am more impressed all the time. This is an amazing piece of work.
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00:39<topcyde>is there an easy way to sort through all the documentation kept in /usr/share/doc/ ? I tried to find a package but was wondering if there was one I overlooked?
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00:42<jm_>topcyde: packages like dwww
00:43<dpkg>i heard doc-base is a standardised method for Debian packages to register the documentation they include. There are several doc-base clients that will then let you browse and search the documentation, for example installing doc-central and a web server will let you browse the documentation at http://localhost/dc/ . See also
00:43<jm_>doc-base is a similar thing
00:43<jm_>took me a while to find the name :)
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00:50<topcyde>jm_: I have yelp installed but not doc-base but doc-base says yelp is a client for it. Would you think that installing doc-base and using yelp work?
00:52<GinoMan_>how does a package recommend restarting the system?
00:52<jm_>topcyde: looks like it might, but I never used any of gnome
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00:54<themill>yeah, yelp is supposed to be able to do doc-base through scollkeeper/rarian but I've never quite gotten to the bottom of how or even if that works
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01:00<ele64-cdrom>new man
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01:10<topcyde>themill: it doesn't
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01:16<topcyde>yelp shows the GNOME documentation but it doesn't seem to ref anything in /usr/share/doc/, and there's not a settings option I could find to configure anything.
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01:25<alumno_>algun usuario huayra???
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01:26<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
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01:27<themill>(yet another one of the south american, government-sponsored derivatives)
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01:30<soundconjurer>How do I recalibrate my battery meter in Debian?
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03:44<ktlle>hi everyone, does anybody know how to solve touchpad issue of acer aspire 5738z?
03:46<bartm>ktlle: I suggest to describe the details of the issue
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03:50<ktlle>on this model there is hardware button that should switch on/off. so then computer just turning on or waking up from suspend mode touchpad is available and working, but if you turn it off pressing that button it becoming not working, and after that trying to turn it on touchpad is still disabled
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03:52<ktlle>for now i'm using xubuntu, but i also got this trouble in 12.10 and 13.04 and other version of Ubuntu and in last update of debian
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03:55<ktlle>from people in the net i got 2 lines for terminal, that turning on touchpad, i don't have them right now but if it necessary i will find it.
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04:00<musca>play elsewhere please, it's boring
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04:00<themill>alcolico, nigga, Kaimei: please play elsewhere.
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04:18<mplagi>k tal??
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04:21<themill>!ubuntu-es mcasabo
04:21<dpkg>mcasabo: Ubuntu esta basado en Debian, pero no es Debian, y dificilmente tendra los estandares de Debian. Solo Debian es soportado en #debian. Por favor conectese a #ubuntu-es en Ahi recibira mas soporte.
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04:24<babilen>dpkg: ubuntuirc ktlle
04:24<dpkg>ktlle: This is not the Ubuntu help channel. Please do /server and then /join #ubuntu. If you are using XChat, you can right-click the following link and choose connect. irc://
04:25<babilen>ktlle: You are, naturally, welcome to try Debian and investigate the issue there. I'd take a look at synclient and xinput and turning it off and on there.
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05:11<orange>Debian seems like a great OS.
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06:21<huayra>I know that jquery and other JS libraries are included in debian
06:21<huayra>is there anywhere I can look this up?
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06:22<huayra>I am specifically thinking of handlebars, justgage and raphael (as bootstrap and jquery already are packaged)
06:22<huayra>any hints are appreciated
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06:26<CountryfiedLinux>How long does it take to zero a usb flash drive with dd? Its been going for about 30 minutes.
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06:27<ixi>depends on write speed and drive size
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06:27<ixi>those devices aren't very fast, especially the cheaper ones
06:27<CountryfiedLinux>ixi, cheap 16 GB
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06:28<ixi>you could use iotop package to see write speed
06:28<mongrol>over an hour :)
06:29<CountryfiedLinux>mongrol, oh so its only about half way there?
06:29<mongrol>i've had them run for ages
06:29<mongrol>over 30 mins is defo not unusual
06:29<CountryfiedLinux>BTW the reason I'm doing this is because I used dd to write an iso to the usb flash drive and it wouldn't boot it, just went straight to the grub boot loader. Then tried unetbootin. Said it was written immediately, of course it wasn't.
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06:30<devil>CountryfiedLinux: forget unetbootin
06:30<CountryfiedLinux>devil, Well it wouldn't boot with DD. DD worked fine in other distros though.
06:30<CountryfiedLinux>I wonder if there's a startup disk creater like program for debian?
06:31<CountryfiedLinux>any gui image writers?
06:31<mongrol>I've had good success with unetbootin
06:31<devil>CountryfiedLinux: dd should work. did you look at the output?
06:31<CountryfiedLinux>besides unetbootin
06:31<devil>mongrol: with debian?
06:31<CountryfiedLinux>devil, What do you mean?
06:31<devil>not reliable
06:31<devil>CountryfiedLinux: bytes in and bytes out should match
06:32<ixi>CountryfiedLinux dd is _the_ image writer
06:32<CountryfiedLinux>devil, I didn't check that, I just rebooted when the flash drive stopped flashing. It has a blinking light on it.
06:32<CountryfiedLinux>ixi, Is there a gui one?
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06:33<ixi>dd in a gui terminal emulator
06:33<devil>CountryfiedLinux: why would you want a gui if you have the perfect cli tool?
06:33<CountryfiedLinux>devil, because I used it, and debian bypassed it and went straight to the bootloader screen
06:33<jm_>what was the exact command you used?
06:33<devil>you can add a progress bar to dd, that's all the gui there is :)
06:34<CountryfiedLinux>jm_, the same one that worked fine in other distros
06:34<ixi>pv :)
06:35<algharib86>hello to all
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06:35<CountryfiedLinux>jm_, sudo dd if=/home/robert/Downloads/elementaryos-stable-amd64.20130810.iso of=/dev/sdb
06:35<CountryfiedLinux>oops nope
06:36<CountryfiedLinux>dd if=/home/robert/Downloads/elementaryos-stable-amd64.20130810.iso of=/dev/sdb
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06:36<CountryfiedLinux>yes, the 2nd one is what I used jm_
06:36<ixi>where is debian in that though
06:36<ixi>I am so confused
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06:36<CountryfiedLinux>ixi, I'm done with debian, it doesn't support my graphics card properly
06:37<devil>CountryfiedLinux: then you are in the wrong channel :)
06:37<ixi>and you want #debian channel to fix your broken elementary iso ?
06:37<devil>as we do not know elementaryos
06:37*ixi /o\
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06:37<CountryfiedLinux>ixi, elementary OS is fine, debian doesn't support my gpu properly. that's why I'm reinstalling eOS
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06:38<CountryfiedLinux>and I'm currently running Debian, so I believe this is on topic
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06:38<CountryfiedLinux>running dd in debian
06:38<ixi>your face when you learn about the fact that they use exactly the same gpu driver
06:38<ixi>sorry for spoiling it to you
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06:38<CountryfiedLinux>ixi, your face when I honestly say it doesn't work properly in debian
06:39<ixi>gpu model ?
06:39<CountryfiedLinux>Here's how I originally wrote the debian iso sudo dd if=/home/robert/Downloads/debian-live-7.0.0-amd64-gnome-desktop+nonfree.iso of=/dev/sdb
06:39<CountryfiedLinux>same thing minus sudo
06:39<ixi>CountryfiedLinux what's your gpu model ?
06:40<CountryfiedLinux>ixi, Its a driver issue not a card one
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06:41<ixi>I'm not asking about your opinion
06:41<CountryfiedLinux>let me finish before jumping lol brb
06:41<ixi>I've asked you about a hardware model
06:41<ixi>twice now
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06:41*ixi is quickly losing interest
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06:41<CountryfiedLinux>When I ran cat /proc/sys/kernel/tainted in eOS it showed 2
06:42<CountryfiedLinux>It looks like there's nonfree parts to the kernel to get it working properly in Ubuntu based distros
06:42<CountryfiedLinux>I don't know what's different in the modules but its indeed a supported card, just needs nonfree stuff to work right. Now back on the dd topic.
06:43<ixi>now we collectively ignore you I think
06:43<CountryfiedLinux>I don't recall the exact model numberintel i915
06:44<CountryfiedLinux>should even be supported in squeeze old stable, but like I said, I think its the issue with needing nonfree modules
06:44<towo^work>intel does not need non-free firmware
06:44<CountryfiedLinux>ixi, I said let me finish before jumping, I had to find the info
06:45<CountryfiedLinux>towo^work, then how come its supported in Debian but doesn't work properly like it does in Ubuntu based distros? retorical question, but I'm actually trying to figure that out.
06:46<mongrol>what's the GPU issue then?
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06:46<mongrol>what is it not doing?
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06:46<CountryfiedLinux>towo^work, according to cat /proc/sys/kernel/tainted in eOS it says 2, and 0 in debian of course. 2 nonfree modules needed for it to run properly, but the issue at hand is dd, or if there's a good gui image writer for debian
06:47<CountryfiedLinux>mongrol, Its really buggy and freezes my system frequently
06:47<peter1138>That doesn't refer to any particular driver.
06:47<peter1138>And it's not a counter.
06:47<ixi>it's really funny to hear that i915 is not supported in debian, for someone who is using i915 right now
06:47<peter1138>(Or if it is, I'm using 4097 tainted drivers right now)
06:47<CountryfiedLinux>ixi, I dunno why I'm having issues then.
06:48<ixi>and as far as I'm concerned everything works
06:48<ixi>3d, video, even flash
06:48<CountryfiedLinux>ixi, how about compositing?
06:48<CountryfiedLinux>ixi, it works here, its just really buggy
06:48<ixi>I've successfully booted debian kde livecd
06:48<ixi>I think KDE window manager does compositing
06:48<ixi>and there were no issues
06:49<ixi>on i915
06:49<CountryfiedLinux>but for some reason my system freezes a lot, might have something to do with Docky?
06:49<CountryfiedLinux>but when docky crashes in other OSes only docky crashes, nothing else
06:49<CountryfiedLinux>in debian everything but the pointer freezes
06:50<valdyn>freeze is such a convenient word to avoid a proper error description (not)
06:50<CountryfiedLinux>but my main issue as of now is writing an iso using DD. For some reason its not booting and bringing me directly to the grub menu instead
06:50<valdyn>CountryfiedLinux: thats between you and your bios
06:50<jm_>and/or ISO image
06:50<ixi>ask people who made said iso
06:50<ixi>how to use it
06:50<CountryfiedLinux>valdyn, which booted from dd fine before installing debian
06:51<CountryfiedLinux>ixi, it originally booted with dd
06:51<bhuddah>how does one boot with dd?
06:51<CountryfiedLinux>I'm zeroing the flash drive atm
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06:51<ixi>case in point: dd works
06:51<CountryfiedLinux>bhuddah, I wrote the iso with dd
06:51*bluewater just goes to show that when you try to country rock and roll , it has a 50/50 chance of making it
06:52<CountryfiedLinux>y'all seem offended based on smartass responses, I have legit issues here. Main one at hand is zeroing my flash drive and hoping the dd or unetbootin write will boot right this time.
06:52<mongrol>did you use bs=4096 on the DD line?
06:53<valdyn>CountryfiedLinux: im sure its a real issue, but its not a debian issue
06:53<bluewater>well unetbootin is a 50/50 option
06:53<CountryfiedLinux>valdyn, I'm using debian
06:53<valdyn>CountryfiedLinux: that does not make it one
06:53<CountryfiedLinux>valdyn, dd info not supported here?
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06:53<valdyn>CountryfiedLinux: what error is dd throwing?
06:54<CountryfiedLinux>valdyn, its not
06:54<peter1138>So is the image correctly written?
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06:54<CountryfiedLinux>does zeroing the usb flash drive do the same thing as gparted?
06:54<CountryfiedLinux>because its taking a really long time.
06:54<peter1138>By that, I mean verify it, not assume.
06:55<valdyn>CountryfiedLinux: do you want to ask how to verify that the image is correct? Other than that i dont know how you can make this a debian issue
06:55<peter1138>No, gparted does not zero disks, normally.
06:55<ixi>I fail to see a reason to zero a usb drive anyway
06:55<ixi>is there one ?
06:55<valdyn>ixi: good way to shorten its lifetime
06:55<CountryfiedLinux>valdyn, right now I'm waiting for this to finish zeroing before I can do anything with it atm
06:55<bluewater>dd if=/path/to-your-*.iso of=/dev/sdf
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06:57<bluewater>cat /path/to/your-rubbish-*.iso > /dev/USB_raw_device_node
06:59<peter1138>Of course, if your ISO image isn't directly USB bootable, then... yeah...
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07:00<CountryfiedLinux>petemc, It booted fine with dd the first time.
07:00<peter1138>How do you boot with dd?
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07:01<peter1138>So what did you do differently the first time?
07:01<CountryfiedLinux>dd if=/home/robert/Downloads/debian-live-7.0.0-amd64-gnome-desktop+nonfree.iso of=/dev/sdb
07:01<CountryfiedLinux>petemc, I wasn't using debian the first time.
07:02*ixi . o O ( I guess you could boot over pxe with a wicked combo of nc and dd )
07:02<peter1138>Were you writing the same image the first time?
07:02<CountryfiedLinux>Is there a gui image writer for debian besides unetbootin?
07:02<CountryfiedLinux>petemc, yes
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07:03<peter1138>Did you wait for the image to finish writing? (sync)
07:04<CountryfiedLinux>petemc, yes
07:04<CountryfiedLinux>right now I'm waiting for the flash drive to zero, its been at it for over an hour
07:04<peter1138>Poor petemc, all these spurious highlights...
07:04<valdyn>CountryfiedLinux: why are you zeroing it?
07:04<valdyn>CountryfiedLinux: this makes no sense
07:04<CountryfiedLinux>valdyn, to see if that will fix the dd issue
07:04<valdyn>CountryfiedLinux: it wont
07:04<peter1138>Check dmesg, maybe you've killed it :D
07:04<CountryfiedLinux>valdyn, so i should just unplug it now?
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07:05<valdyn>CountryfiedLinux: no you should hit ctrl-c or abort the zeroing however you want
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07:05*bhuddah thinks this is elaborate trolling.
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07:09<babilen>CountryfiedLinux: And please either use cp to copy the image or specify a reasonable blocksize for dd. I would also recommend to use dcfldd in lieu of dd as it simply is better. (but then, just use cp and be done with it)
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07:11<CountryfiedLinux>babilen, I dunno what that means
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07:12<valdyn>naively one could assume that a dd using half the hardware blocksize would do twice the writes
07:12<valdyn>i have no idea if that really happens on usb flash
07:12<CountryfiedLinux>I'm at work now. I'll just burn it to dvd when I get home. Thanks anyhow. I wish Debian had other options besides unetbootin and dd
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07:15<CountryfiedLinux>Maybe the usb flash is messed up?
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07:15<babilen>CountryfiedLinux: I mean that you should either use cp to copy the image in lieu of dd (cp debian.iso /dev/sdX ; sync) or specify a reasonable blocksize for dd such as bs=4M. I also encourage people to use dcfldd as it is simply better than dd. Be more specific about what you don't understand.
07:15<CountryfiedLinux>I don't understand a lot of the lingo
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07:16<babilen>CountryfiedLinux: You are obviously writing to the USB stick using a suboptimal blocksize and I would just use cp as that scales the blocksize automatically. This is also documented in the installation guide.
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07:16<babilen>Ah well ..
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07:22<EmleyMoor>Is pymedia in wheezy?
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07:23<supaman>,v pymedia
07:23<judd>No package named 'pymedia' was found in i386.
07:23<ixi>,v pymedia
07:23<judd>No package named 'pymedia' was found in i386.
07:23<ixi>EmleyMoor apparently not
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07:36<EmleyMoor>ixi: Damn... and I can't get it to build
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07:39<ridculy_quotabds>who is ridculy_quotabds
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07:49<supaman>EmleyMoor: have you seen this page: It talks about how different version of pymedia can be compiled by different versions of gcc
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08:24<EmleyMoor>supaman: I'm going to say "yes, unfortunately" - because I think python is the bigger problem
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08:25<Dark_light>Will iceweasel 24 ESR be available in wheezy?
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08:26<EmleyMoor>Dark_light: You can get the esr branch of iceweasel - though it won't come into the archive proper. As for particular versions, ask the maintainer.
08:27<Dark_light>EmleyMoor: so wheezy will by default stick with 17 esr ?
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08:28<EmleyMoor>Pass. I'm not the maintainer...
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08:28<Dark_light>oh ok, I'll ask him then
08:28<Dark_light>thank you
08:28<jm_>Dark_light: so far all versions were available for stable, so i suspect it will
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08:32<fredericve>Hi, say that I have package X and package Y, and when package Y is installed, I need package X to execute some script. Can that be done with dpkg-triggers?
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08:34<valdyn>fredericve: maybe you really mean you need a program contained in package X to do something
08:34<fredericve>valdyn: yes
08:35<fredericve>well, package Y doesn't depend on package X, But should package X already be installed, and package Y is installed later, I need package X to do something
08:35<valdyn>fredericve: so the end result varies depending on the order in which you install packages?
08:35<valdyn>fredericve: thats a bad idea
08:37<valdyn>fredericve: maybe you should instead ship a script that the user of that package can run optionally - that would be more sane
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08:39<fredericve>valdyn: no the end result is the same. When package X is installed it executes a script. When package Y is installed, it should execute the same script.
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08:41<valdyn>fredericve: i dont really know about triggers except what im reading, and what im reading seems to imply that you using a trigger for this would also create a dependency
08:41<supaman>fredericve: so when package x is installed it will execute the script, no matter what, but you want it executed also when package y is installed?
08:41<valdyn>A package which has pending triggers, or which awaits triggers, is not
08:41<valdyn>considered properly installed.
08:41<fredericve>supaman: exactly
08:41<valdyn>oops, that was a quote ^^^
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08:43<supaman>fredericve: are these your own packages or official packages?
08:43<fredericve>supaman: my own
08:44<valdyn>fredericve: i think triggers were created to do registrations or similar in a single run instead of running it once for each package, so just for saving install time
08:44<supaman>fredericve: I dont know triggers either, but calling the script from package Y preinstall should work (can't help you further there though)
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08:45<fredericve>valdyn: yes, from the documentation I had that impression as well
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08:46<fredericve>supaman: yes indeed, but if possible, I'd like to prevent having to change these other packages.
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09:14<mandark>Hello, Just got an ALFA AWUS036H (, using it with driver rtl8187, but it gives a very low bandwidth (200KB/s instead of the 4.5MB/s given by my builtin Wi-Fi card). (Tested it on my laptop to have a true comparison, same network, same laptop, same OS version etc...)
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09:14<mandark>I searched on internet but only find guys having the same problem, but no known solution
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09:14<mandark>Does someone here have an idea for me ?
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09:15<bhuddah>mandark: the usb port you use is usb 2.0?
09:16<mandark>bhuddah: Yes, I think, I tried the card on two different computers, don't think I have usb1 ports here
09:16<mandark>bhuddah: lshw say "usb version: 02"
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09:19<Naughx>hello :D
09:19<bhuddah>it's just that the numbers are a reasonable match to the limits of usb 1
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09:19<daedalux>hello, i need help to rescue wheezy server. stops boot at configuring network interfaces. both in normal and rescue mode. network card is fine as i can boot install dvd. not sure what to do next.
09:20<valdyn>daedalux: wait longer?
09:20<daedalux>waited 10 minutes
09:20<daedalux>just hangs
09:20<valdyn>daedalux: tried ctrl-c ?
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09:21<daedalux>doesn't do anything except print ^C on screen
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09:21<valdyn>daedalux: in grub ( or grub2 ), edit the kernel line, set init=/bin/sh
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09:22<daedalux>thanks. will try now.
09:22<valdyn>daedalux: that should boot you straight to a shell where you can disable networking or just that nic or whatever
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09:23<valdyn>daedalux: i suspect it hangs at whatever comes *after* networking
09:24<dpkg>For GRUB: 1) press 'e' to edit the kernel setting in the grub command line (add 'init=/bin/sh' to the end of it) 2) 'fsck' your root file system, 3) 'mount -o remount,rw /', 4) 'passwd root' 5) 'mount -o remount,ro /' 6) 'reboot -d -f' (exec /sbin/init should work); For LILO: 1) 'Linux init=/bin/sh' at the LILO boot prompt (hold Shift while booting), steps 2-6 are the same; For yaboot: 1) 'Linux init=/bin/sh' at yaboot prompt.
09:24<valdyn>daedalux: ^^^ like that
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09:30<daedalux>valdyn: excellent. thanks. will try this now.
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09:36<daedalux>ok. got as far as # prompt, but cannot access tty job control turned off
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09:37<daedalux>error from /bin/sh
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09:38<valdyn>daedalux: cant enter a command?
09:39<daedalux>no. nothing appears at prompt when i type
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09:45<valdyn>daedalux: how did this error come? is it the result of upgrading to wheezy?
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09:46<daedalux>valdyn: yes. i'm following wheezy backports
09:47-!-[_aeris_] is now known as _aeris_
09:47<valdyn>daedalux: that would be a "no" then
09:47<daedalux>valdyn: yes
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09:47<valdyn>daedalux: meaning you already had booted successfully with wheezy but something from wheezy backports broke it
09:48<daedalux>valdyn: yes, i think this sounds likely
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09:48<daedalux>valdyn: unfortunately, no previous kernel on /boot
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09:49<valdyn>daedalux: when booting you can kill the current process using ctrl-alt-printscreen-k
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09:50<valdyn>daedalux: but this is just something id do. I dont know if booting would proceed.
09:50<daedalux>valdyn: ok. thanks. i could try this
09:51<valdyn>, versions linux-image-i386
09:51<judd>No package named 'linux-image-i386' was found in i386.
09:51<valdyn>, versions sysvinit
09:51<judd>Package: sysvinit on i386 -- squeeze: 2.88dsf-13.1+squeeze1; wheezy: 2.88dsf-41; wheezy-proposed-updates: 2.88dsf-41+deb7u1; jessie: 2.88dsf-43; sid: 2.88dsf-43
09:51<lastwill>Does anyone know why iceweasel is no longer maintained by the security team for oldstable (aka Squeeze)?
09:51<valdyn>lastwill: who sais it is no longer maintained?
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09:52<lastwill>"Multiple security issues have been found in Iceweasel, Debian's version
09:52<lastwill>of the Mozilla Firefox web browser: Multiple memory safety errors,
09:52<lastwill>buffer overflows may lead to the execution of arbitrary code.
09:52<lastwill>The Iceweasel version in the oldstable distribution (squeeze) is no
09:52<lastwill>longer supported with security updates.
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09:53<lastwill>oops too long
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09:53<lastwill>that's what was said by the security announce
09:55<themill>lastwill: because it's too hard to backport the fixes, too few people care about it and there are more important problems to work on -- esp since most desktop users will be wanting to upgrade to wheezy anyway
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09:55<daedalux>valdyn: great. got a bash prompt. thanks for your help.
09:55<EmleyMoor>Is there any program in wheezy that can convert swf video to mpeg?
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09:56<themill>EmleyMoor: avconv (or ffmpeg) from libav-tools
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09:57<patrik>Hi, I am going to install debian unstable and as a storage is going to be used samsung 830 128GB ssd. I used to think that allignment is necessary for HDD's supporting Advandce format, but yesterday I was told that this applies to ssd's as well. So the question is whether or not it is still necessary to do any allignment on ssd's as most of the blogs talking about it are rather old dated. Thank you very much.
09:57<lastwill>themill: Wheezy is only out since July and Squeeze is alread abandoned...
09:57<lastwill>at least for Iceweasel
09:57<valdyn>patrik: dont - you should install stable, and if you want you can "upgrade" stable to whatever
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09:59<lastwill>so should I abandon Iceweasel or switch to something else?
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09:59<valdyn>patrik: alignment should be technically correct but practically useless on ssd
09:59<themill>lastwill: for iceweasel, yes.
09:59<babilen>lastwill: chromium is alright
10:00<themill>!limited security support
10:00<dpkg>Some packages have poor security track records and the security team is unable to provide full security support for these packages. To see installed packages that may be affected, install the <debtags> package and then «aptitude search '?tagsecteam::wheezy-limited-supportinstalled'». See also or ask me about <debsecan>.
10:00<themill>hmm.. dpkg has lost some of that factoid. It should be aptitude search '?tag(secteam::wheezy-limited-support)?installed'
10:00<patrik>valdyn: why you saing that ? I have been using debian unstable for while now and i have not had any problems. I have downloaded testing minimal cd and that will be upgraded to unstable. I've never had any problems with that either. :)
10:01<txt-file>lastwill: take a look at
10:01<valdyn>patrik: so you are saying that you didnt actually "install" unstable, which is halfway at what i recommended
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10:02<babilen>lastwill: chromium is a good alternative though (but check newer builds at mo.d.n
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10:02<themill>is chromium still supported?
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10:03<valdyn>patrik: however, even the installer for testing can be in a state that is at best "experimental". It is not recommended.
10:03<patrik>valdyn: basically no. I always download testing minimal cd and then do upgrade. As far as I am concerned, unstable is not available from oficial sources.
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10:03<babilen>themill: In wheezy you mean? Good call! (and I don't know)
10:04<babilen>patrik: You can use the stable installer to install testing, but the general recommendation is to use the stable installer to installt stable and to take it from there.
10:05<EmleyMoor>themill: That's unusual - first time I've ever removed a package after asking a question like that...
10:05<valdyn>themill: E: Unexpected ':' following "?tagsecteam:" (from that !limited security support)
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10:05<lastwill>themill: according to DSA-2741-1 from august it is still supported for Squeeze.
10:05<patrik>valdyn: I have come across broken installer once if I remember while ago.
10:05<themill>valdyn: yeah dpkg ate it as I said
10:05<themill>lastwill: ok.
10:06<lastwill>I used Chromium from time to time so I think it should be ok.
10:07<lastwill>Thanks for your answers!
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10:08<patrik>valdyn: I just wanted to save some time, because download speed is very poor here and to go from stable to testing and to unstable, it just takes way too much time. That was the only reason to go for testing always. But I'll take you recomendation if there are any advantages over installing testing other than the possibility of broken installer.
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10:15<patrik>babilen: thank you and have a good day.
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10:15<patrik>valdyn: thank you too and also have a good day.
10:15<gsimmons>themill: dpkg is still eating it. Seems fine with "aptitude search '~i?tag(secteam::wheezy-limited-support)'" however.
10:16<themill>gsimmons: ah, thanks. I was just contemplating changing from ? to ~ forms there
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10:16<babilen>patrik: Just install a minial stable system to begin with, upgrade that to testing and then install whatever else you need.
10:17*babilen was once driven insane by dpkg doing this
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10:19<adam_>hello guyz... I'm new here, can somebody please tell me, how it works here? I have a problem with debian, should I just ask? :)
10:19<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
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10:26<adam_>I'm using Debian Wheezy, Gnome 3.4.2 and have HP Probook. It has Radeon HD5400 Graphics. My issue is about dual monitors (just for sure - 1 is part of my laptop, second is external panel connected to ntb). Now to the problem - I can't set the "extended screens". Now I have on both displays the same output. If i try to change this in my gnome-control-center, it always shouts: "The selected configuration for displays could not be applied. required v
10:26<adam_>irtual size does not fit available size: requested=(2646, 1024), minimum=(320, 200), maximum=(1366, 1366)". I appreciate any suggestions. Adam
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10:28<adam_>btw - last time I was touching my graphic drivers, it ended with reinstalling whole system. (black screen after grub). Im new to Debian, as you can see :/. Thank you for tips.
10:30<babilen>adam_: Which driver are you using? Could you paste the output of "xrandr -q" to please? If you use the (normal) radeon driver could you show us the output of "COLUMNS=200 dpkg -l libgl1-mesa-dri firmware-linux-nonfree" too please? -- I'll be back in 5-10 minutes, but that would be the information I'd start with. You might also want to paste your /var/log/Xorg.0.log
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10:34<musca>adam_: there is a handy little tool named "pastebinit" that can assist you in creating pastes from the commandline.
10:34<dpkg>pastebinit is a command-line tool to send data to a <pastebin>. NOTE: squeeze users, you must "pastebinit -b" or configure pastebinit to use something other than To paste e.g. your sources.list do "aptitude install pastebinit; pastebinit /etc/apt/sources.list"; to paste the output of a program do e.g. "dmesg | pastebinit". See also <pastebinit config>, <nopaste>.
10:36<adam_>babilen: sure, here is the output of xrandr: The other output is here:
10:36<adam_>thank you musca! :)
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10:37<babilen>dpkg: nopaste
10:37<dpkg>nopaste is a command-line tool to send data to a <pastebin>. To paste e.g. your sources.list do "aptitude install libapp-nopaste-perl; nopaste /etc/apt/sources.list"; to paste the output of a program do e.g. "dmesg | nopaste".
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10:37<babilen>adam_: I prefer ^^^ as pastebinit's code gives me nightmares
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10:37<adam_>you prefer nopaste, right? i try it first then
10:38<babilen>adam_: Could you try running "xrandr --output LVDS1 --auto --output VGA-0 --auto --left-of LVDS1" (or "--right-of LVDS1" whatever you prefer, IIRC --right-of is the default)
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10:39<adam_>warning: output LVDS1 not found; ignoring
10:39<babilen>oh, sorry for that. make that LVDS not LVDS1 :-(
10:40<adam_>xrandr: screen cannot be larger than 1366x1366 (desired size 2646x1024)
10:41<adam_>i should say that maximum (and optimum) resolution of ntb is 1366*768, LCD panel 1280*1024
10:41<babilen>adam_: yeah, but you should still be able to have a larger total size .. not sure where the restriction comes from. Is this a rather new GPU?
10:42<babilen>meh, no it isn't :-/
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10:43<babilen>My I see your Xorg.0.log ?
10:44<adam_>im sry, phone, just a sec :)
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10:46<babilen>adam_: Did you install any drivers manually or so? I'll go and grab a coffee and something to eat ... take your time. The problem is that the maximum size you have available is "maximum 1366 x 1366" for some reason. We would have to track down why that is and your Xorg.0.log might provide clues .. you could also try to see how it works with fglrx (cf. but I'd try "pure" radeon first.
10:47<babilen>adam_: Please also check if you use a /etc/X11/xorg.conf or if you have any configuration files in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ -- paste all that :)
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10:59*babilen pokes adam_
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10:59<adam_>babilen: I'm ready when you are. But /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ was not found... Im looking for it
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11:00<adam_>its probably here
11:01<babilen>adam_: If you don't have it then you don't have it. Do you have a /etc/X11/xorg.conf ? Have you installed any drivers manually (or via the packaging system) in the past? Could you paste your /var/log/Xorg.0.log ? (read what I said above)
11:01<babilen>dpkg: xorg.conf.d
11:01<dpkg>xorg can use files ending in the suffix .conf in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d for additional configuration. It is preferred to use an <empty xorg.conf> and create files (e.g. 20-nvidia.conf, 20-radeon.conf, 20-wacom.conf) there in order to configure a single device. You might have to create the directory yourself (mkdir /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d). See also "man 5 xorg.conf".
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11:02<babilen>adam_: It's okay if you don't have it. I just inquire about *potential* configuration files you might use. (have to run for a second, will be back soon, but just paste and answer the questions)
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11:05<adam_>in my /etc/X11 directory is no xorg.conf neither xorg.conf.d file :(
11:05<babilen>that's fine (there could have been, but its not necessary)
11:06<babilen>dpkg: empty xorg.conf
11:06<dpkg>Starting from Debian 5.0 "Lenny", /etc/X11/xorg.conf is often basically empty or non-existent, as X auto-detects your hardware and starts the X server accordingly, nothing to worry about. Ask me about <xorg config> and <xrandr> for ways to configure Xorg. See also <xorg manual config>, <xorg.conf.d>, <xorg hal>.
11:06<adam_>and no, i don't realize i installed any drivers
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11:06<adam_>i wanted to download these, but i didnt (i hope:)
11:07<babilen>No, there are better ways to install those drivers. But lets start at the beginning ... :)
11:07<babilen>(see for details on how to install them)
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11:09<adam_>ok, should i did this maybe :/ if i do it again, its nothing wrong, right?
11:09<adam_>*without should
11:09<babilen>adam_: I would *still* like to see your /var/log/Xorg.0.log
11:09<adam_>ok ok, sorry
11:10<adam_>/var/log/Xorg.0.log: Permission denied
11:10<adam_>App::Nopaste::Service::Pastie: Could not construct paste link.
11:10<adam_>App::Nopaste::Service::ssh: No NOPASTE_SSH_SERVER set
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11:11<adam__>babilen i was kicked :O I wrote too much, or?
11:12<babilen>yeah, you cannot paste more than two lines into the channel. You have to be a member of the "adm" group or be root to be allowed to read that file. You can add yourself to that group by running "adduser YOURUSERNAME adm" ...
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11:15<adam__>oh. Good to know :) I try to "nopaste" it like a root. Not enough?
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11:26<adam__>babilen: now i know, how to use nopaste properly :):
11:27<adam__>^^^ my Xorg.0.log
11:27<adam__> file
11:29<towo`>adam__, do you have installed firmware-linux-nonfree?
11:30<adam__>towo: i hope... yes
11:30<towo`>not hope, make sure
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11:32<adam__>towo: i have this in my sources: deb wheezy main contrib non-free
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11:33<towo`>adam__, and? firmware-linux-nonfree will not be installed automatic
11:33<towo`>so check if it is installed
11:34<adam__>towo: i just try to install it again, ok? because idk how to check it now
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11:39<adam__>towo: yes, i have it
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11:42<GinoMan>Hey, would any of you guys be willing to check over my debian package control files? I haven't written prerm and postrm yet but I have a preinst and postinst and control file
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11:50<babilen>adam__: When did you install the firmware package and did you reboot after doing that?
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11:54<adam__>babilen: not sure, im going to reboot.. ill be right back
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12:04<root_>babilen: its me, adam__
12:05<root_>babilen: after reboot, lot of things happend :/
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12:08<root_>babilen: can you read this?
12:08<root_>ah :)
12:09<root_>1st of all, i wanna THANK YOU a lot, now I can work on both display!
12:09<babilen>I'm essentially waiting for you to actually tell us *what* happened -- Sounds as if you had a lot of changes that haven't been applied.
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12:10<root_>but what happend next, what i didnt expect is that (still using gnome 3.4.2) I have "the other environment" (sry, cant name it better)
12:10-!-marian1 is now known as marian
12:10<root_>the one, where if you press Windows key, youre in activities
12:11<root_>i was curious, why i dont have it before, after clean install of Debian (i used it in Fedora before)
12:11<babilen>yeah, that is Gnome 3 in its "normal" state. You were using the "fallback" before because Gnome 3 requires GPU hardware acceleration (that is now working)
12:11<root_>but now, when I used to the old one, i have this new :D
12:12<root_>lot of questions solved now. I cant to thank you enough :)
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12:12<babilen>Essentially the reboot allowed your system to load firmware for your graphic card that now works as it should.
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12:12<babilen>Great, do you want to keep that environment or would you be interested in alternatives?
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12:13<root_>I think I can handle it... the one with the menu left up was nice too (more ussual) but i think i can use to this :)
12:14<Poenikatu>Usually, when I load a Debian system, my printer works immediately because it's set up by hplip. Now, it refuses to work. I've tried modifying the printer via CUPS, but no go.
12:14<root_>(more ussual for "Windows man")
12:15<root_>babilen: so essentially the problem was only to install the free drivers, you think?
12:15<babilen>Sure, you might want to look into XFCE, KDE or LXDE for alternatives. Gnome's "fallback" mode is still supported, but will vanish soon so there is (IMHO) no point in using that. Gnome 3 (which you are using right now) is, naturally, an option too. You might want to take a look at gnome-tweak-tool and
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12:16<infinity0>one of my packages has shot up in popularity over the past 2 weeks,
12:16<infinity0>did anything happen to trigger this?
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12:16<babilen>root_: The problem was that you need firmware for your graphic card (which ships with firmware-linux-nonfree), but you have to reboot for your system to be able to load it. The graphic card also requires the installation of libgl1-mesa-dri and you must have installed both at some point but forgot to reboot.
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12:17<root_>babilen: ok, thank you :) If we talk now, maybe I would have a little question - what, do you think, is the better software for playing flash videos?
12:18<root_>babilen: thank you
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12:18<babilen>root_: I'd just install flashplugin-nonfree and be done with it. Unfortunately (?) that isn't really developed anymore so the only "real" way forward would be to use the PepperFlash implementation that ships with Google's Chrome browser. That is not part of Debian and flashplugin-nonfree should work fine for now.
12:19<root_>babilen: and the flashplugin-nonfree is independent of browsers, so ok with my FF?
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12:21<root_>babilen: oh, its a Mozilla type plugin, silly question from me :)
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12:25<babilen>root_: Well, we don't ship firefox but iceweasel (which *is* firefox with a different branding) and yes flashplugin-nonfree will work with that. If you want a newer version of Icweasel you can install it from
12:25<babilen>(release, beta, aurora are all available from there)
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12:25<babilen>okay, i'm off now ... all the best :)
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12:26<root_>oh i removed IW and installed FF :/
12:26<babilen>why did you do that? that isn't a very good idea :)
12:26<root_>and why not? :)
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12:26<babilen>Install newer IW from if you want a newer version as that browser is better integrated into the system and you get Debian support for it.
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12:27<root_>ok, ill do that... Thank you a lot
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12:27<babilen>no problem, have fun! (iw really *is* firefox .. we are just not allowed to call it that way)
12:27<babilen>dpkg: tell root_ about why iceweasel
12:27*babilen waves
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14:26<jhon>hay alguien que me pueda ayudar
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14:27<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
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14:27<dpkg>Por favor use #debian-pt para ajuda em portugues ou #debian-br para ajuda em portugues do brasil. ( /join #debian-pt )
14:27<supaman>can never tell the difference
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14:43<tjader>supaman: it was spanish.
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14:52<dex>hi, I need to use another keymap to write in other language, how can I add support to another language and change it whenever I need, with dpkg-reconfigure locale and setxkbmap???
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14:54<dpkg>Run "dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration" to change both your default console and X keymap; the setxkbmap utility can be used to adjust keymap settings during X operation. For setting up X keymaps, see xkeycaps, xev and ask me about <multimedia keys>.
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14:57<an_> v
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14:58<dex>ok I've had reconfigured keyboard, but I would like to change my spanish keyboard to greek, how can i do it?
15:00<dex>ι διδ ιτ
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15:00<retrospectacus>dex: I believe the standard way is to add a keyboard layout switching applet to your panel, but I thought setxkbmap does it too
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15:00<dex>βυτ ι νεεδ το γο βακ
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15:01<retrospectacus>dex: use a panel applet
15:01<jillsmitt>can someone give me a fix for smbldap-tools?
15:01<TCW>.oO( ... )
15:02<jillsmitt>TCW, wrong?
15:02<blast007>jillsmitt: you'll have to explain the issue before a fix can be suggested
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15:03<jillsmitt>blast007, i have some problems with tls
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15:03<TCW>jillsmitt, I think the only worse kind of question would have been" can somebody help me?" So yes, wrong, useless, without any details. What about the bugreport I gave you the link to?
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15:04<Shotz>Is this a help channel for Debian?
15:04<dex>ok I logged out, and I have my keymap again
15:04<mtn>Shotz: sure is
15:04<Lord-Sid>Hi I need help with a card reader
15:04<Shotz>Neato, I'm trying to install steam but I get an error
15:04<jillsmitt>TCW, help me to find out why this happens?
15:04<dex>I am using openbox and I would like to be able to change keymap in console or sth like that
15:05<Shotz>Something about Jockey-common
15:05<dex>maybe with sth like ctrl + shift or sth
15:05<jillsmitt>TCW, how to regenerate certs?
15:06<TCW>well folks, as it seems jillsmitt is running in this issue he is on debian 7.1, is there an easy fix for him? Installing the fixed package from jessie is not what I would have in mind. And recompile the testing package in stable is not what I had in mind either. As you can see he has some issues even wording sensible questions...
15:06<retrospectacus>jillsmitt: why are you picking on TCW ?
15:07<TCW>retrospectacus, possibly because I told him to ask here, he dropped that issue in #samba@freenode
15:07<retrospectacus>dpkg: tell Shotz about steam
15:07<jillsmitt>TCW, qw is easy to fix
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15:07<TCW>what on earth that has to do with regenrating certs, fails me.
15:08<jillsmitt>i dont remember i guess it wants " or ( in pl file
15:08<dex>how can I change the keymap and go back to the first one in console?? when I change to greek keyboard I can not introduce commands like setxkbmap
15:08<jillsmitt>start_tls problem i cant solve
15:08<TCW>jillsmitt, so that issue is already fixed? FIne, I am out then...
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15:09<jillsmitt>TCW, not yet
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15:11<jillsmitt>TCW, now fixed
15:11<jillsmitt>and now i have
15:11<TCW>Shotz, on what distro / version are you?
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15:13<jillsmitt>TCW, i think its certificate problem, help me to diagnose it, please
15:13<TCW>I don't think it is, and I won't help you. Ask the channel
15:14<TCW>,versions steam
15:14<judd>Package: steam on i386 -- jessie/non-free:; sid/non-free:
15:14<jillsmitt> i have that paste and i want to know why it happens
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15:16<Shotz>TCW: I' l
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15:16<Shotz>TCW: I'm on near fresb
15:17<Shotz>TCW: I'm on near fresh install of Crunchbang
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15:18<adam_>Hello. Can someone please tell me, how can I find the installation folder of any program I have installed?
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15:18<TCW>Shotz, then you are wrong here
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15:19<TCW>adam_, dpkg -L <packag name>
15:20<jillsmitt>ok i have path to certificates in smbldap.conf, but they are not there
15:20<jillsmitt>why? where are they? how to create them?
15:21<adam_>TCW: thank you. But im not sure, what's the package name... I'm looking for VIM, specificaly
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15:21<TCW>adam_, VIM? Uppercase?
15:22<TCW>adam_, I guess you should lay out your issue in more detail...
15:22<adam_>TCW: ok, maybe vim ;) thats better
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15:23<adam_>TCW: ok, im trying to place into vim "plugin" snipmate, which, for installation, needs to edit some file in vim folder
15:23<TCW>adam_, as in /usr/bin/vim?
15:23<TCW>adam_, err... I doubt that a plugin needs to be copied to the installation folder of vim, I bet it should rather be some folder in your home directory
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15:24<adam_>TCW: can be, I tried this command "find / -name vim 2> /dev/null
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15:24<adam_>TCW: but it gave me too much results (about 10)
15:25<TCW>adam_, what is the manual / doc that did tell you to copy some stuff in vims installation folder?
15:25-!-JuStIcIa_ [~JuStIcIa_@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:25<TCW>Or if it was a person, depcit exactly what he said
15:26<adam_>TCW: ehm, let's say... i just thought its right... I read this only
15:27<TCW>install details
15:27<TCW>unzip -d ~/.vim
15:27<adam_>TCW: i must apologyze, im new in Debian and Linux essentinally
15:27<TCW>adam_, see what I pasted...
15:27<TCW>adam_, and ask if something is not clear
15:28<adam_>TCW: Yes, i know. But.. I didnt know if they assumed that my installation of program is in /.vim directory
15:28<adam_>TCW: the example assumed so, right?
15:28<TCW>adam_, it is not, it is almost *never*
15:28<TCW>adam_, how did you install vim?
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15:29<adam_>TCW: I guess just through apt-get install vim
15:29<TCW>adam_, so it is installed in a place where every sane package would be and that is *not* your homefolder
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15:30<TCW>adam_, BUT in your homefolder are the user-speciffic configuration files, for vim in /home/username/.vim/ place that extrated snippet thing there
15:31<TCW>adam_, are you new to computers in general?
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15:32<adam_>TCW: no, im really not :) But I am windows person, as you can see. But im learning
15:32<jillsmitt>i create two files ca.key and ca.pem from key, copy in into smbldap config dir, change rights to 600 and now i have only one error
15:32<adam_>TCW: in my home folder is no such directory :(
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15:34<adam_>TCW... NOT your folder.. im sorry, i must be blind
15:34<TCW>adam_, well... it is the same thing on windows... there, programs are installed in c:\programs and user-specific stuff (as the document you posted a link to agrees on) in "c:\documents and settings\username\Application Data" or c:\users\username\AppData\ on newer windows versions...
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15:35<TCW>err... not in the windows subfolder AppData, just directly into the homefolder as it seems... well, most windows programs use AppData, but whatever...
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15:36<adam_>TCW: but the installation itself is ussually in program files folder, in linux it is really variety hm?
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15:36<TCW>adam_, pardon me?
15:37<adam_>TCW: btw sorry for my bad english
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15:37<TCW>adam_, anyway, if you are interested in where and why stuff is placed at the folders it is installed during installation in a distro, google for LSB specification
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15:38<TCW>Err... FHS specification
15:38<TCW>but LSB might say a word or two about that too
15:39<TCW>in short: with all its differences between various distros and the *BSD family of operating systems, the general unixoid way of places to put stuff is the only sane approach, compared to windows.
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15:41<adam_>TCW: ok, i dont get the pluses yet, but i will learn something about it :)
15:41<mshuler>pgilbert: do you have a Debian question?
15:41<pgilbert>i need to remote access my xubuntu
15:42<mshuler>that's not Debian..
15:42<adam_>TCW: so now, in my situation in placing the plugin to vim, i must unzip it right to vim's directory, ok?
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15:44<TCW>I can install whatever package and without even looking, the binary will be located in /usr/bin/ (at least that is true for most packages), its system-wide configuration files in /etc/, user-specific stuff in /home/username/, its somewhat variable and not static files (databases, logs... in short stuff that changes during normal operation of the program) in /var/, and so on... on windows, stuff can be anywhere.
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15:44<TCW>adam_, hm?
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15:46<mshuler>silly question, adam - what vim plugin are you installing? (has no one told you about the vim-scripts package)
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15:48<adam_>mshuler: im trying to get snipmate (i need to code javascript, html, etc)
15:48<adam_>mshuler: and no, nobody said yet :)
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15:50<TCW>adam_, you still have issues?
15:51<mshuler>adam_: ok - I don't see that one as part of vim-scripts, so carry on
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15:51<adam_>TCW: thx for explanation, i looked into /usr/bin , there are some vim files but not directory to copy
15:51<TCW>adam_, gnaaaaaaa....
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15:51<TCW>adam_, I said in your local homefolder, as the manual for that script tells you to!
15:51<aluno2>quem e
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15:52<mshuler>adam_: if it helps at all, here's my ~/.vim* files and directories - plugins typically go into ~/.vim/plugins - I use a symlinke to the one I use
15:52<adam_>mshuler: im not sure, what you tried to say (sorry, bad english) but i like to use vim for Java or C++ too
15:52<mshuler>me too :)
15:52<aluno2> quem e mina
15:52<aluno1>eu a jayane
15:53<aluno2>linda kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
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15:53<aluno2>aluno 2 e a iasmim
15:54<aluno1>oii valeria tudo bem ??
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15:54<adam_>TCW: right, sorry. I can see.. i was a little bit confused
15:54<mshuler>hush, please, or english, aluno1 aluno2
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15:54<aluno2>sorry mshuler they are my students
15:55<aluno2>i ll kick them now
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15:55<adam_>TCW: so unzip it in homefolder is the right step
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15:55<TCW>adam_, in the .vim subfolder there, yes.
15:56<adam_>TCW: and that subfolder i must create ( i hope, cause i dont have it now)
15:56<TCW>adam_, at least the manual tells you to do that, I have no idea how the folder structure is in that zip-file, as mshuler did tell you most plugins want to be placed in .vim/plugins/ and not just .vim/
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15:57<adam_>mshuler: so if I unzip it to home folder, can you give a tip how to activate the plugins?
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15:58<TCW>adam_, that is explained in the manual as well...
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15:59<adam_>TCW: damn me, sry guyz...
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16:00<adam_>TCW: im 2 days old Debianer, so Im scared of everything a little bit :/
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16:01<TCW>adam_, that is not an issue... in general we give some slack for new users, but get better and learn! ;)
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16:02<adam_>TCW: i still dont get it, how cool is that you, informed and educated people, are helping for free to everyone..
16:03<adam_>TCW: and with patience :)
16:03<TCW>adam_, what is missing?
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16:03<adam_>TCW: nothing yet :) ill give know
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16:04<TCW><adam_> TCW: i still dont get it, <- what did you mean there?
16:04<mshuler>TCW: just bask in the glow of a compliment ;)
16:05<TCW>mshuler, O_o
16:05<adam_>TCW: i meant that it is not ussual in real world. People dont help each other. Yes mshuler, right ;) :D
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16:05<TCW>ahhhh! Now I get it :)
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16:06<TCW>adam_, and imho that is quite common for most humans.
16:07<adam_>TCW: to dont help each other? right! :)
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16:08<TCW>Same thing today in a shopping mall. An older guy with some neck issues, he could not look up but needed some stuff from the highest shelf... as I saw him trying to get stuff from there and almost throwing everything else on the shelf down in the process... sure, the impulse is help him, what I did. Same applies here.
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16:08<adam_>TCW: ussualy on programing forums etc, ppl are satisfied when they can "humiliate" somebody. Not in linux community
16:09<TCW>adam_, imho it depends on how you ask someone for help...
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16:10<adam_>TCW: sure, in my language and in topic, which i know a little bit, im much better "asker".. Believe me :D
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16:11<adam_>TCW: But it's just cool, thats what i wanted to say. World isnt such terrible place, at least somewhere:)
16:12<TCW>adam_, well... I suppose after some time learning the stuff needed for GNU/Linux, you know how to ask and more precisely *what* to ask... that said, for a starting point some book about the general unix / GNU/Linux concpets would be a good idea to read.
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16:16<adam_>TCW: nobody can help me, im lost again :/
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16:17<TCW>adam_, with what?
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16:19<adam_>TCW: still with the installation. in maunal they say " remember to add ":filetype plugin on" to your .vimrc", I cant locate the .vimrc ...
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16:20<TCW>adam_, type this: vim ~.vimrc
16:20<retrospectacus>that is ~/.vimrc
16:20<TCW>err... vim ~/.vomrv
16:20<TCW>err... vim ~/.vomrc
16:20<TCW>err... vim ~/.vimrc damnit :)
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16:26<adam_>TCW: great job, it works! thanks a lot
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16:29<giuscri>Hi there. I'd like to apply for the Google Summer of Code 2014. How can I contribute with the Debian-community
16:29<adam_>TCW: it was all more complicated because of fact, that i use terminal often like root, so i had to work in root folder. Confusing for noob :)
16:30<TCW>adam_, what? Never ever run as root until you REALLY need to!
16:31<adam_>TCW: ok, i thought its... "faster", because i install and create files a lot, using chmod etc... :/
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16:32<TCW>adam_, then ahcn
16:32<TCW>adam_, then chances are, you are doing something utterly wrong
16:33<adam_>TCW: but, if i want to change something in the system, i ussually must use su anyway, so then i can damage something too, hm?
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16:34<TCW>adam_, what kind of stuff do you change?
16:34<adam_>TCW: lot of operations requires sudo
16:34<adam_>TCW: or not? :)
16:34<TCW>adam_, be specific
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16:36<adam_>TCW: ehm... im just trying some of them and... i can see, most of those what i need can be done with normal user
16:36<adam_>TCW: embarrasing argument
16:36<TCW>adam_, would you be so kind and enlighten us what you did as root? :)
16:37<retrospectacus>only operations which alter the system, like "apt-get install ..." require root
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16:37<TCW>adam_, and you know what / who "root" is, right?
16:37<dasouch>aptitude install....
16:37<adam_>TCW: yes, installing sw for example
16:37<retrospectacus>aptitude: command not found
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16:37<adam_>i know who is root :)
16:37<TCW>adam_, and apart from that?
16:37<bzed>dpkg, who is root?
16:37<dpkg>It has been said that root is the administrative account - only use it when root power is needed. So no reading mail, compiling programs, or running applications as root. And don't even think about irc'ing as root, it increases the danger from exploits and trojans (such as bliss), or see, for example, the security advisory on BitchX
16:38<adam_>do i run here like root? :O :D
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16:38<TCW>dpkg, who is god?
16:38<dpkg>TCW: I think you lost me on that one
16:39<retrospectacus>adam_: what is your native language?
16:39<adam_>ok ok guyz, im starting to get it... thx
16:39<TCW>darn it! ;)
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16:39<adam_>TCW: god is root? :)
16:39<adam_>retrospectacus: its czech, im from czech republic
16:39<retrospectacus>:) na zdravi
16:40<TCW>adam_, god is a nonexistant virtual buddy for several crazy folks if you ask me...
16:40<adam_>nazdar kanadane :)
16:41<adam_>yes TCW, but he has rights of root, thats what you wanted to say :)
16:42<TCW>adam_, no I did not... but... whatever :)
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16:44<adam_>TCW: ok whatever :)
16:45<dpkg>it has been said that cz is Czech Republic. Kanal pro cechy je #debian-cz
16:45<TCW>ah, nice :)
16:46<TCW>adam_, you might consider joining there too...
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16:48<musca>TCW: it's empty on both freenode and oftc
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16:48<TCW>musca, oops... the local czech community should fix that I guess :)
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16:51<adam_>TCW: so you dont want me here? :'(
16:51<adam_>TCW: :)
16:52<adam_>TCW: thx for tip, but... ill try
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16:53<TCW>adam_, I said "too", but as it seems the channel is empty anyway
16:54<adam_>TCW: yes, its sad :(
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17:05<dasouch>Alguien habla spanish
17:05<dasouch>anyone knows why I get this error :not authorized
17:06<Cor3>to do what?
17:06<dasouch>Hace poco me aprece este error al conectar una Memoria USB
17:06<dasouch>Not Authorized
17:06<dasouch>when connecting usb
17:07<LtL>dasouch: not sure, are you in the plugdev group? no habla espanol
17:08<TCW>dasouch, we need the complete error message including surounding messages in the logs, if you got that message from a log. If you got it after running a command, we need the command too
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17:08<dasouch>LtL, el plugdev ya esta
17:09<TCW>ahh... "Memoria USB" == flash usbstick
17:09<dasouch>ya eso lo configure y sigue por lo mismo
17:09<TCW>dasouch, here only english please
17:09<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
17:09<MrFrood>!tell dasouch about plugdev
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17:25<adam_>TCW:thanks a lot, have a nice day, i must go off
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17:43<EmleyMoor>Is there any way to disable a ThinkPad's "radio off" key?
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17:54<retrospectacus>EmleyMoor: duct tape
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17:58<EmleyMoor>retrospectacus: Hmmm... a bit of a pain...
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18:50<wdoodle>Hi, I'm looking through lvm docs trying to find where it explains the diff between size indicators m and M, g and G, etc. One means like 1000 and the other 1024. Looked at lvm(8) lvextend(8) and lvresize(8), but can't find the info. Anyone remember where it is doc'd?
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18:55<LtL>wdoodle: i can't say where the d
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18:55<LtL>wdoodle: sorry, its just base 2 and base 10 math
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18:56<LtL>wdoodle: 1k = 1000 is base 10. 1k = 1024bytes is base 2 math
18:57<wdoodle>LtL: hi, that part I knew. Just couldn't remember whether 1g or 1G meant 1024 to lvm, but I think I've figured it out
18:58<LtL>wdoodle: i couldn't say but the must be a good document somewhere
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19:00<wdoodle>just tried it with the -t flag. m = MiB and M = MB
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19:12<retrospectacus>abdulmogeeb: hei
19:13<abdulmogeeb>My first time using this , so don't call me a noob but do :D
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19:34<kingsley>Does anyone here happen to know how common is it for routers with ethernet jacks and a WIFI access point to address them all in the same subnet?
19:35<abrotman>pretty sure mine does
19:35<retrospectacus>extremely common
19:35<wdoodle>I've two different ones, they both do
19:35*abrotman wishes his special router had wifi
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19:36<kingsley>abrotman, retrospectacus and wdoodle: Thanks.
19:37<retrospectacus>next time we want a debian question though.
19:37<abrotman>dpkg: sorry
19:37<dpkg>Don't be sorry...but if you ever go against the Debian Family again...
19:37<kingsley>How would you fix a Debian box with a newly installed used WIFI card that establishes a wireless connection, but which returns networking application errors like "Destination Host Unreachable"? Everything works fine over an ethernet cable.
19:38<retrospectacus>kingsley: fix your routes
19:39<wdoodle>iptables rules?
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19:39<retrospectacus>kingsley: in "route -n" you probably have a left-over default route for the ethernet connection - remove it
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19:47<kingsley>retrospectacus: I'd like to compliment you on correctly guessing that the box previously had an ethernet connection. Indeed it did, and it worked fine. I did as you suggested, and ran "route -n". It reports the (I think default) route for destination is the private net IP address of the combo DSL/ethernet/wireless/router. If combo routers like this one commonly put both ethernet and wifi connections on the same subnet, should I b
19:47<kingsley>e concerned that wireless traffic is routed through the same private IP address as used on for routing ethernet connection?
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19:49<retrospectacus>kingsley: the gateway IP should be the same for both routes, this is not an issue
19:49<retrospectacus>however the kernel will use whichever appears first
19:49<retrospectacus>and if the "Iface" is eth0 and it is not plugged in, you will get "unreachable"
19:50<retrospectacus>(actually the kernel will use whichever has a higher (lower?) metric, but if they are the same it's the first)
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19:51<usr13>Is there a debian channel for raspberry-pi users? Or, can I just ask here?
19:51-!-zuxour [] has joined #debian
19:51<dpkg>The Raspberry Pi is an open hardware design based on a Broadcom system-on-a-chip, requiring <non-free> <firmware>. Debian's <armel> port works fine, but does not use the Pi's hardware floating point unit. Debian's <armhf> port targets a newer revision of the ARM chip than is in the Pi, so armhf will not work on it. #raspberrypi on
19:51<retrospectacus>usr13: ^ , and
19:51<themill>usr13: if you're using debian (not raspbian) then here is probably fine
19:51<dpkg>Raspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Please use #raspbian on for support.
19:52<usr13>/etc/issue says, Raspbian GNU/Linux 7 \n \l
19:53<kingsley>retrospectacus: The default route through the gateway IP appears first in "route"'s output. However, there is a route after it for "Iface" "eth0". I'm tempted to remove it. What do you think?
19:53<usr13>One simple thing is that I don'tthink I choose the right keyboard.
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19:53<retrospectacus>kingsley: if you don't want to use eth0, then you may as well remove any route going that way
19:53<kingsley>retrospectacus: Both have a "Metric" of "0".
19:53<retrospectacus>that's usual
19:54<pollo>Please help. apt-get update hangs waiting for headers. wget also hang. However I can use telnet to get the page and I can use wget with the ip address to get the page. I have tried switching dns server and it did not help. The network settings are coming from dhcp.
19:54<usr13>Instead of the # character I get £ from upper-case 3
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19:55<blast007>usr13: raspbian is not supported here. read what dpkg said.
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19:56<pollo>I'm running a fresh install of wheezy and64 inside of kvm guest on a wheezy host.
19:57<retrospectacus>kingsley: first the default ( route is checked (say gw and then it looks for the route to that host, sends the packet on that iface
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19:57<retrospectacus>pollo: can you ping the dns server?
19:58<pollo>and nslookup works
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19:59<retrospectacus>and ping to the iP?
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20:00<retrospectacus>but no ping
20:01<scientes>what should I do if I found a heisenbug in malloc/free?
20:01<pollo>ping works
20:01<scientes>on arm
20:02<scientes>i guess i should extract the .i and ask someone else to reproduce
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20:03<retrospectacus>pollo: try apt-get update again, maybe it is just slow
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20:04<kingsley>retrospectacus: Do you happen to know if it's OK for two routes to share Destinations, Gateways, Genmasks, Flags, Metrics and Refs, but have different Ifaces?
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20:05<retrospectacus>.. well, it could be OK, but not if one of the Ifaces is not plugged in
20:06<pollo>retrospectacus: I've tried that (indirectly). Attempted to install from net install but it always hung getting header. I had to install from a full cd.
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20:07<pollo>retrospectacus: my other debian boxes update immediately.
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20:08<kingsley>retrospectacus: Indeed, one of the Ifaces, eth0, is not used. May I please have the benefit of your informed thoughts on how to remove the route for eth0 when it shares Destinations, Gateways, Genmasks, Flags, Metrics and Refs with another?
20:09<pollo>retrospectacus: I've a ADM64 wheezy on the same subnet and i386 wheezy on a different subnet.
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20:13<retrospectacus>kingsley: with the "route del" command, something like "route del default gw dev eth0"
20:14<retrospectacus>pollo: on kvm?
20:15<retrospectacus>pollo: perhaps a duplicate IP or MAC
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20:22<retrospectacus>kingsley: it may be worth noting that "route" is no longer what you are "supposed" to use... "ip route" is the new way, but I don't know the syntax off hand
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20:26<kingsley>retrospectacus: I'm happy to report that the wireless connection seems to be working. I did as you originally suggested, and tried using the "route" command to delete the left over route for eth0. However, it complained with "siocdelrt: no such process". Google's indices led me to a web page suggesting "ifconfig eth0 down". It worked.
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20:26<retrospectacus>oh, nice :)
20:27<kingsley>retrospectacus: However, I'm concerned that I need to edit something(s) in /etc for the fix to persist after rebooting.
20:27<retrospectacus>kingsley: the interfaces file but if it's "auto eth0" then it shouldn't do anything unless it is plugged in
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20:29<kingsley>retrospectacus: I'll test it by rebooting.
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20:40<kingsley>retrospectacus: For what it's worth, although /etc/network/interfaces had "auto eth0", it wasn't quite enough. I ended up commenting out all references to eth0, and from the looks of it, I'm back in the land of 1000 happy dances.
20:41<retrospectacus>eth0 went up regardless of non-pluggedness?
20:41<kingsley>retrospectacus: Thank you for so patiently sharing your informed thoughts on this technical topic.
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20:41<retrospectacus>no problem my good sir. Cheers!
20:42<kingsley>Yes, eth0 went up, but hot plugging was allowed. Did I answer your question?
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20:46<retrospectacus>I don't see why the interface would be "UP" and create routes, if there's nothing plugged into it
20:49<kingsley>Yes, but no one knows why George W. Bush was allowed to put clothes on Darth Vader and call him vice president either. What are the odds?
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20:50*SamB wasn't aware that darth vader was naked
20:50<kingsley>s/clothes/a suit/
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20:51<kingsley>I've got to go. Bye for now.
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21:12<pollo>retrospectacus: still no luck. I've check arp and bridge mac table and I don't see duplicates. I've tried static address. I'm out of ideas.
21:13<pollo>Is there any chance that this is a bug
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21:20<silvea12>Hey... I need a bit of help with migration...
21:21<silvea12>I'm a bit unsure of what I'm doing
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21:24<pollo>what kind of migration
21:25<silvea12>From ubuntu 13.04 64-bit to Debian Wheezy 64-bit netinst iso
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21:25<silvea12>I am migrating my home folder
21:25<silvea12>I've put it on a seperate partition
21:25<silvea12>I installed it once, and it half worked
21:25<silvea12>settings and stuff were there (most of it)
21:25<silvea12>but I had a number of wierd querks
21:25<silvea12>Settings wouldnt save...
21:26<silvea12>Installed applications via synaptic didn't generate icons for gnome3...
21:26<silvea12>Not sure of others...
21:26<silvea12>I deleted all of the settings I thought would apply, and am reinstalling just in case...
21:26<silvea12>by settings, i mean hidden files in my home dir
21:27<silvea12>but, I'm not sure if I missed any, or if I need to modify some directly
21:28<silvea12>I deleted any files/folders in .config that had gnome, kde, lxde, unity or nautilus in the name...
21:28<silvea12>same with the home folder itself
21:29<silvea12>and a lot of .X*** files in my home, like .XAuthority
21:29<silvea12>and backup ones of those
21:29<silvea12>Do you think I need to delete any others?
21:31<silvea12>any files belonging to specific applications?
21:31<silvea12>and any file ownership modifications?
21:32<pollo>do you own you home folder?
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21:33<silvea12>and recently did sudo chmod -R silvea:silvea *
21:33<silvea12>just in case
21:33<silvea12>I hope that didnt mess anything up though...
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21:34<pollo>chown -R silvea:silvea * won't get the hidden files
21:35<silvea12>I mainly tried that to attempt to fix the fact that settings wouldn't save, other than display ones
21:35<silvea12>And now to boot the 2nd install attempt...
21:36<pollo>can you do an ls -a in your home directory
21:36<silvea12>Well, now settings are being saved...
21:36<silvea12>ok... 1 sec...
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21:36<pollo>sorry ls -al
21:36<silvea12>no problem... 1 sec...
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21:39<silvea12>its mainly the problem with entries not appearing when I install software through synaptic that I am worried about
21:40<silvea12>"dpkg -i [package file]; apt-get -f install" generates the icons
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21:44<silvea12>wait... It's working fine now... I just installed autokey through synaptic, and it generated the icon... I guess I deleted the correct files
21:44<silvea12>so... I guess that's it then
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22:56<abrotman>English please
22:57<Meowoo>sorry, i into mistake chanel
22:57<Meowoo>i am stupid man
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23:11<scientes>Meo..he left
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23:20<kichigai>Howdy. Finally got my EFI situation figured out, and got Debian installed, but X isn't working. I'm entirely unfamiliar with using ATi video hardware, so I'm not sure where to start.
23:21-!-nem [] has quit []
23:21<kichigai>Err, AMD video hardware.
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23:33<scientes>kichigai, are you trying to use fglrx?
23:34<scientes>or xserver-xorg-video-radeon?
23:34<scientes>with sid, radeon should not support UVD (hardware video decode)
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23:36<kichigai>scientes, xserver-xorg-video-radeon. And it looks like I've figured it out. Xorg kept trying to enable a display on one of the other video outputs, to which nothing is connected.
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23:37<kichigai>Though I'm considering fglrx
23:38<kichigai>Why isn't gcc installed by default any more?
23:38<scientes>apt-get install build-essential
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23:38<scientes>it never was
23:38<kichigai>Could have sworn it was way back in the day.
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23:38<kichigai>Like the early 2000's.
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23:39<scientes>well I wasn't using linux then....
23:40<kichigai>Hardly qualifies as a definitive "never" then.
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---Logclosed Thu Sep 19 00:00:13 2013