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#debian IRC Logs for 2013-09-28

---Logopened Sat Sep 28 00:00:40 2013
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00:41<aidalgol>Which parameter do I need to set so that only local users can *send* mail via exim? Or is that the default?
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01:02<indigo>what should i chuse icedove or chromium, kmail or iceweasel, conwersation or KVirc?
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02:08<nick>!LIST
02:08<dpkg>nick: È possibile scaricare un sacco di software libero puntando il tuo browser a http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/multi-arch/iso-cd/debian-7.1.0-amd64-i386-netinst.iso !
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02:17<cortexA9>hello all
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04:31<mak>how to install flash player plugin for icewesel
04:31<mak>how to install flash player plugin for icewesel
04:31<mak>how to install flash player plugin for iceweasel
04:31<nevyn>!flash
04:31<dpkg>Flash is frequently used to deliver interactivity, audio and video through a web browser. Ask me about <gnash> and <lightspark> for free implementations or <adobe flash> for a non-free implementation. http://wiki.debian.org/Flash
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04:33<mak>ok, yeah actually i need to know about gnash :-) not adobe fp
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04:36<Nik05>!gnash
04:36<dpkg>Gnash is the GNU <Flash> movie player, developed from GPLFlash and part of the GNU project. The project aims to create a free software player and browser plugin. The browser plugins are packaged for Debian as browser-plugin-gnash (for Iceweasel/FIrefox) and konqueror-plugin-gnash. http://www.gnu.org/software/gnash/ #gnash on irc.freenode.net.
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05:28<deradian>hi guys, for proxychains, except the conf file in /etc/ do i have to edit something else?
05:28-!-Speedy37 [~Speedy37@205-64-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has joined #debian
05:29<Speedy37>hello, I got a failure while restarting my system after a shutdown while doing reshaping to raid6
05:29<Speedy37>mdadm doesn't see my raid volume anymore
05:31<Speedy37>anybody ?
05:32<Speedy37>With mdadm --examine, I was able to find the right devices in the right order
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05:32<Speedy37>But I'm not sure of which is the safe way to assemble things back again
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07:30<matbur>hi
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07:39<PaulePanter>Hi. Reading `man apt.conf` I could not find how I disable that the downloaded package archives are kept (in `/var/cache/apt/archives`).
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07:42<abrotman>disable?
07:42<devil_>PaulePanter: i do not think it exists
07:42<devil_>PaulePanter: apt-get clean does the job
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07:42<devil_>yeah, 'disable' is confusing :)
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07:45<Celelibi>I want to recompile a kernel. However, I see the source package have changed.
07:46<Celelibi>What's that linux-config-3.10 directory?
07:47<Celelibi>And linux-patch-3.10-rt.patch.xz? Should I apply this, or is it just there for information (and unpach if needed)?
07:48<abrotman>compile why?
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07:49<Celelibi>Because of reasons. :)
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07:50<Celelibi>The main reason is that I never used packaged kernel on this machine and don't plan to change and try to break everything in the world.
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07:53<abrotman>so no actual technical reason
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07:54<Celelibi>Not really.
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07:55<Celelibi>Actually, I need to update my kernel because udev need it.
07:55<Celelibi>But I guess a packaged kernel would work too.
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07:57<abrotman>how did your udev change?
07:58<Celelibi>the upgrade abort saying it needs some option to be built in the kernel.
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07:59<Celelibi>Oh, and I'd like to upgrade my wifi driver because of a bug with airbase-ng.
07:59<abrotman>maybe you sohuld back up and go wiht the whole story?
08:00<Celelibi>whole story?
08:02<abrotman>what upgrade?
08:03<ompaul>Celelibi: I think it would be good if your story said: I was running X on this platform, I then went to upgrade to Y.
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08:03<ompaul>Celelibi: after / during or something else the upgrade Z was the consequence
08:04<Celelibi>But I just want to upgrade my kernel, why question my motives?
08:04<ompaul>because
08:04<ompaul>!ask
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08:04<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
08:04<PaulePanter>devil_: Thanks. Guess I should mount `/var/cache/apt/archives` in a tmpfs in memory (RAM).
08:04<abrotman>i'm asking why yout udev changed
08:04<abrotman>PaulePanter: why do you want to change it
08:04<ompaul>Celelibi: because communication allows people to parse the problem and apply expertise.
08:05<abrotman>PaulePanter: are you trying to save space?
08:05<PaulePanter>abrotman: I have a small disk, yes.
08:05<Celelibi>I'm running Linux 2.6.36 it's too old, and certainly full of security issues. Isn't that a good reason by itself?
08:05<PaulePanter>abrotman: And avoid running `aptitude clean` all the time.
08:05<abrotman>PaulePanter: you can set the cache size
08:06<abrotman>Celelibi: which version of Debian is this?
08:06<Celelibi>Mostly testing.
08:06<PaulePanter>abrotman: Oh. Setting that to 0 would be the same then of course.
08:06<PaulePanter>abrotman: For docker, it is also wanted. https://github.com/dotcloud/docker/blob/master/contrib/mkimage-debian.sh#L47
08:06<PaulePanter>abrotman: Though the script author misunderstood `man apt.conf`.
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08:06<PaulePanter>abrotman: … and has already been notified.
08:07<ompaul>Celelibi: the supported / correct way to upgrade is squeeze -> wheezy -> testing what did you do squeeze -> testing?
08:07<abrotman>Celelibi: so your "testing" box is woefully out of date
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08:07<ompaul>Celelibi: trying to work out what it is you did / didn't do - ergo the questions
08:07<Celelibi>ompaul: from december2007, this machine have always been on the testing branch.
08:07<abrotman>Celelibi: do you have the kernel metapackage installed? when is the last time you ran a dist-upgrade ?
08:08<ompaul>Celelibi: what abrotman asked
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08:09<PaulePanter>abrotman: Reading `apt.conf` I could not find that option. (Just for RAM use.)
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08:10<abrotman>PaulePanter: moment
08:10<Celelibi>I usually don't run dist-upgrade because it try to be too smart. I usually just upgrade and apt-get install some package it didn't upgrade.
08:10<ompaul>Celelibi: that's not running testing that's franken debian
08:11<Celelibi>Add to that, that I backport some packages from testing, and even from experimental sometime.
08:11<Celelibi>from sid*
08:11<abrotman>PaulePanter: look for Cache-Limit if i understand the option correctly
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08:12<ompaul>Celelibi: there is only one way I would try to deal with that, (but first back up everything you want) I would do apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade dime after that after time and see if it didn't break but basically I expect it not to work so therefore the backups so I could do a clean reinstall and note if you are running testing / SID dist-upgrade is the only way to run the box - anything else is looking for trouble, you've got 5 years out of
08:12<ompaul>it, so ... good luck with that
08:12<abrotman>Celelibi: please install the kernel metapackage, and then do a dist-upgrade, you'll get all sorts of new stuff
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08:13<Celelibi>kernel or kernel-package ?
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08:13<ompaul>Celelibi: you may or may not get away with it, and as for dist-upgrade being smart it tries to be smart, if you want to try and make it some what sanely you might try disabling recommends for the current process
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08:13<ompaul>but there I have to run - 20 mile round trip and a computer fix in my near future
08:13<abrotman>Celelibi: do you know what a metapackage is?
08:13<Celelibi>I already disabled the recommends installation.
08:16<PaulePanter>abrotman: I think that is not referring to `/var/cache/apt/archives` but the meta data(?) cache file.
08:16<abrotman>not likely
08:16<abrotman>oh, perhaps
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08:18<abrotman>PaulePanter: does the Dir::Cache look coser?
08:18<abrotman>closer
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08:24<PaulePanter>abrotman: Yes. Thanks. I should have read more carefully.
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08:27<Celelibi>abrotman: isn't that a package that just depends on a bunch of packages?
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08:29<abrotman>mostly, but aids in transitions also
08:29<abrotman>Celelibi: there is a 3.10 kernel already in testing
08:29<abrotman>judd: kernels
08:29<judd>Available kernel versions are: experimental: 3.11-trunk-686-pae (3.11-1~exp1); sid: 3.10-3-686-pae (3.10.11-1); jessie: 3.10-3-686-pae (3.10.11-1); wheezy-backports: 3.10-0.bpo.2-686-pae (3.10.5-1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-4-686-pae (3.2.46-1+deb7u1); squeeze-backports: 3.2.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.2.46-1+deb7u1~bpo60+1); squeeze: 2.6.32-5-686 (2.6.32-48squeeze4)
08:29<abrotman>Celelibi: so you can merely install the metapackge, and do a full dist-upgrade .. running an out of date 'testing' distro is prone to all sorts of issues, stability and security
08:30<Celelibi>it's just the kernel that is out of date.
08:30-!-nou [Chaton@causse.larzac.fr.eu.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:30<Celelibi>(Yes, the main part of the OS :))
08:30<abrotman>Celelibi: please pastebin your sources.list and then the output of "aptitude update;aptitude full-upgrade" (paste.debian.net please)
08:31<Celelibi>I don't use aptitude.
08:31<abrotman>fine .. use apt-get update;apt-get dist-upgrade
08:31<Celelibi>(I know, it's the recommended tool)
08:31<abrotman>yeah, in this case, aptitude would probably fare better .. but it's your box
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08:34<Celelibi>Do you really want me to perform a dist-upgrade? It will try to update udev and will fail.
08:35<abrotman>because you're missing the kernel metapackage .. let's start with a pastebin of your sources.list please
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08:35<PaulePanter>abrotman: Unfortunately, there is still no success. »I've got Dir::Cache::pkgcache and Dir::Cache::srcpkgcache both set to the empty string now, and the archives are still …
08:35<PaulePanter>… there because of Dir::Cache::archive, which cannot be set to the empty string,«
08:36<abrotman>can you set it to /tmp/ ?
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08:37<PaulePanter>Let me try.
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08:43<Celelibi>abrotman: http://pastebin.com/eBnTQ6my
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08:44<abrotman>almost like paste.debian.net :)
08:44<Celelibi>(I've set udev on hold)
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08:44<Celelibi>you said a pastebin. :p
08:44<abrotman>oh jeez .. that's so awful
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08:44<abrotman>Celelibi: what is the output of "apt-cache policy" ?
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08:46<Celelibi>http://paste.debian.net/47028/
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08:47<Celelibi>I also set default-release to "testing".
08:47<PaulePanter>abrotman: https://bugs.launchpad.net/apt/+bug/937951
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08:47<PaulePanter>abrotman: Setting it to /tmp seems to work.
08:48<abrotman>Celelibi: a) there's no testing-security in reality .. it exists, but nothing is there
08:48<abrotman>Celelibi: what is 'dpkg --print-architecture' ?
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08:49<Celelibi>i386
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08:49<abrotman>Celelibi: and how much system RAM ?
08:49<Celelibi>1.5G
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08:50<abrotman>Celelibi: apt-get install linux-image-686
08:50<abrotman>Celelibi: apt-get install linux-image-686 udev
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08:52<Celelibi>Why can't I just compile my kernel like I always did?
08:52<abrotman>you can do anything you like .. you asked for a 3.10 kernel
08:52<Celelibi>I don't want a system that "just work".
08:53<abrotman>right, your udev is woefully out of date
08:53<Celelibi>I would use ubuntu for that.
08:53<abrotman>clearly you've got a handle on things :)
08:53<Celelibi>(except it doesn't work :p)
08:53<abrotman>i'm trying to get you to a good baseline
08:53<jehovahnissi>what channel are kali users?
08:53-!-q66 [~q66@213.191.105.214] has joined #debian
08:53<abrotman>get your packages inline with testing (meaning a current udev and debian kernel) then compile oyur own
08:54<abrotman>jehovahnissi: on freenode.net, #kali I believe
08:54<abrotman>dpkg: tell jehovahnissi about kali
08:54<Celelibi>If the packaged kernel breaks anything, you'll be responsible for this disaster!
08:55<abrotman>or you can keep using 2.6.x with all its security holes .. your call
08:55<husna>Kang i need package appmenu-gtk and appmenu-gtk3 for debian...
08:56-!-sssssssss [~seb@2a01:e35:8bb0:40a0:b96a:966a:27:cd1b] has joined #debian
08:56<Celelibi>I was just asking about the content of the package linux-source-3.10
08:57<sssssssss>I have shitty sound on xubuntu !! acer aspire one, noone can solve the problem ! please help me <3
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08:58<SynrG>!ubuntuirc sssssssss
08:58<dpkg>sssssssss: This is not the Ubuntu help channel. Please do /server chat.freenode.net and then /join #ubuntu. If you are using XChat, you can right-click the following link and choose connect. irc://chat.freenode.net/ubuntu
08:58<abrotman>sssssssss: #xubuntu on irc.freenode.net
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08:58<sssssssss>oh ok ty ^^
08:58<abrotman>Celelibi: but you'll need a newer udev to use 3.x .. this is why i'm suggesting you upgrade the metapackage and udev at the same time
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09:14<Dark_light>On wheezy kde starts the screenserver even if vlc is fullscreen and even if I disable all the display power management options, it used to be ok I'm not quite sure why it started behaving this way
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09:15<naresh>Hi
09:15<naresh>anybody can help me with following
09:16<naresh>I have downloaded Ubuntu 13.04
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09:16<naresh>and it is not allowing me to Install VLC & Adobe Flash Player
09:16<wazdra>!ubuntuirc naresh
09:16<dpkg>naresh: This is not the Ubuntu help channel. Please do /server chat.freenode.net and then /join #ubuntu. If you are using XChat, you can right-click the following link and choose connect. irc://chat.freenode.net/ubuntu
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09:54<qcold>есть тут кто??
09:55<m__b>speak english, please
09:55<mgv>!ru qcold
09:55<mgv>!ru
09:55<dpkg>Это английскоговорящий канал, пожалуйста, говорите по-английски или посетите #debian-russian (irc.freenode.net) (Russian speakers please go to #debian-russian)
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10:10<esseks>hi! I'm running Wheezy and I'm currently trying to obtain a Python backtrace with GDB. I launch the script with "python-dbg", then attach to process, but GDB does not understand "py-bt" command! Do I need any additional package?
10:11<esseks>(I ran "aptitude install gdb python-dbg")
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10:32<pmart>i'm trying to cross build i386 fglrx-driver on amd64. `apt-get -b -a i386 source fglrx-driver' fails. The output says "dpkg-buildpackage: unknown option or argument i386" and "Build command 'cd fglrx-driver-13.4 && dpkg-buildpackage -a i386 -b -uc' failed." Hmm...
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10:34<Osiris_X>pmart: I'm no expert but I think you need to have a chroot with an i386 environment in order to do the crossbuild
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10:36<pmart>Osiris_X: i thought i'd work OOTB after having build-essential:amd64 and fglrx-driver build-deps
10:37<pmart>it'd*
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10:53<arnab>hi guys
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10:53<arnab>arnab from kolkata
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11:09<Osiris_X>pmart: I'm not so sure - just relaying to you how I cross build (using sbuild)
11:10<Osiris_X>pmart: what I do know is that you have to actually build against the i386 libraries (and therefore have them installed somewhere) or you are not cross-building at all
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11:15<getreal>anyone using kali linux?
11:15<mtn>getreal: maybe, but not supported in this channel
11:16<getreal>k.
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11:17<manjaro>hi
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11:34<GinoMan>Hey I have a maintainer script, I'm trying to install an additional slave link to a directory in /usr/share/ as part of one of the unpacked programs for this package on line 18: http://pastebin.com/7HtXyQD5 and I keep getting this error here: http://pastebin.com/i74RcUVS
11:34<GinoMan>can you help me?
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12:06<antithesis>b
12:08<Kharec>c
12:08<Kharec>come along!
12:08<Kharec>:)
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12:11<Peetz0r>Hi! I'm running debian on the raspberry pi, and I removed xlde and openbox and lightdm, and installed nodm and evilwm, and changed the nodm config, but it won't work. I see a text-based login prompt, and once every minute or so a black flash
12:12<Peetz0r>nodm *is* running, but X is not running for some reason
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12:13<Peetz0r>I do have a .xsession wit 'evilwm' in it, and I also tried 'exec evilwm' and that didn't work as well
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12:15<topcyde>when using apt-get -b source <package> is there a tag to force it when dependencies aren't met?
12:16<topcyde>--force-yes forces over everything, I just want it to ignore dependencies.
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12:41<EmleyMoor>Trying to use guestmount to mount a filesystem belonging to a VM on my system, I get this error... febootstrap-supermin-helper: ext2: parent directory not found: /lib: File not found by ext2_lookup
12:41<EmleyMoor>What exactly is the problem?
12:41-!-Zenon [~Zenon@AAnnecy-651-1-356-163.w90-10.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian
12:41<fenzil>I'm upgrading from Wheezy to Jessie, and I've read that all I need to do is change the names in my sources.list. However there are "deb cdrom" lines that I didn't see mentioned. Do I need those lines if I don't install packages from a CD?
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12:44<mgv>fenzil: no, remove them
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12:45<fenzil>Alright, thanks
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12:49<EmleyMoor>How can I get update-guestfs-appliance to look at local .debs as well as those on the remote repositories?
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13:09<mauro>ciao ragazzi
13:10<mauro>games p.c.
13:12-!-Cub3rGla55 [~chatzilla@2601:d:700:3d9:dd8e:3bf5:4851:8ff4] has joined #debian
13:12<Cub3rGla55>Hi
13:12<Cub3rGla55>Anyone alive?
13:13<Cub3rGla55>Oh no
13:13<Cub3rGla55>it was just as I thought.
13:13<Cub3rGla55>Everyone in the IRC died.
13:13<Cub3rGla55>I'm too late
13:13<Cub3rGla55>WHY MUST THE GOOD DIE YOOOOOOOOOOUNG??!?!?!?!
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13:16<Cub3rGla55>Guys..It's not hard to speak.
13:16<Cub3rGla55>Come back
13:16<Cub3rGla55>:(
13:17<Cub3rGla55>This is my chance.
13:17<Cub3rGla55>Rolls on by.
13:17-!-Cub3rGla55 is now known as IAMTHEDEBAIN
13:17-!-IAMTHEDEBAIN is now known as IAmTheDebian
13:17<IAmTheDebian>Yo.
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13:32<maxigas>i wanted to install package "cheese" and now it wants to pull in a host of other packages like nautilus. this is crazy. any explanation?
13:33<maxigas>i have to turn off "recommends", or sth like that?
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13:35<babilen>maxigas: yes, turning of recommends is certainly a good idea if you don't want them. I would, however, do that on a case-by-case basis and not make it the default.
13:35<babilen>judd: why cheese nautilus
13:35<judd>Packages cheese and nautilus in wheezy/i386 are linked by 1 chains: cheese ▷ nautilus-sendto ▶ nautilus
13:35<babilen>maxigas: And yeah, not installing recommends would have the desired effect in this case. ^^^
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13:37<maxigas>how do i turn off recommends on a permament basis?
13:37<maxigas>i mean, permamently.
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13:43<babilen>dpkg: tell maxigas about recommends
13:43<babilen>dpkg: tell maxigas about apt recommends
13:43<babilen>maxigas: I *really* wouldn't recommend that.
13:43<SynrG>but i think it is a bad idea
13:43*SynrG nods
13:45<maxigas>thanks
13:47<Zaba>I find that I don't want recommends overwhelmingly more often than I do, personally
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14:09<Lumpenproletariat-cba>I got it: info files were not present on debian 4.0...!!! that´s why i always get man pages instead...!!
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14:10-!-mode/#debian [+l 637] by debhelper
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14:20<manjaro>hello
14:21<Lumpenproletariat-cba>hi there
14:21-!-harobed [~stephane@sab57-2-82-236-241-203.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian
14:21<Lumpenproletariat-cba>are you a rookie, a plain rookie as I am?
14:21<manjaro>hmm
14:21<manjaro>yes and no
14:22<manjaro>i 've used linux before - debian arch etc
14:22<Lumpenproletariat-cba>like i said: info files were not present on debian 4.0...!!! that´s why i always get man pages instead...!!
14:22<manjaro>i
14:23<Lumpenproletariat-cba>i finally got it
14:23<manjaro>'m not very good at it
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14:24<Lumpenproletariat-cba>there must be a way
14:24<Lumpenproletariat-cba>to find out what files are
14:24<Lumpenproletariat-cba>in a bundle
14:25-!-Guest604 [~dcx@201-213-71-198.net.prima.net.ar] has joined #debian
14:25<Lumpenproletariat-cba>or package
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14:26<manjaro>to telll the truth linux is shit
14:26<mtn>Lumpenproletariat-cba: what do you want to do? be specific.
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14:27<manjaro>drivers, apps,
14:27<Lumpenproletariat-cba>mtn, ok, i wanted to get info pages instead of man pages
14:28<Lumpenproletariat-cba>who are supposed to have the latest info, anyway
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14:28<manjaro>no one makes good software for free
14:28<Lumpenproletariat-cba>after a long "research", i found out that info files were not present in most of the original debian packages
14:29<Lumpenproletariat-cba>that´s why i got man pages instead
14:29<manjaro>90% people don't
14:29<mtn>Lumpenproletariat-cba: I thought you were asking about files in packages or something. also, you are using debian 4?
14:29-!-userdthn [~user@91.Red-79-154-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #debian
14:29<mtn>manjaro: go spam and troll somewhere else
14:30<manjaro>mtn
14:30<manjaro>sorry
14:30<manjaro>i feel so realy
14:30<manjaro>i'm not trolling
14:30<Lumpenproletariat-cba>debian 4, right
14:31<EmleyMoor>I've build a repository (with reprepro) but it doesn't have the "Packages" file that apt expects to find - how do I resolve that?
14:31<manjaro>ms without bill don't know what to do
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14:31<manjaro>linux has a chance
14:31<mtn>Lumpenproletariat-cba: that is really old and out of date. you should upgrade to wheezy
14:31<EmleyMoor>Ah, doesn't matter - it's for i386 it's failing, and I do not support i386
14:31-!-user01 [~user01@cpe-68-175-100-15.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
14:31<mtn>manjaro: do you have a debian question? this is a support channel, not a chat channel
14:32<Osiris_X>EmleyMoor: you may want to try #reprepro on freenode, the developer is usually there
14:32<Lumpenproletariat-cba>i know mtn .. i downloaded debian 6 ... but i´m stucked
14:32<user01>hmm why doesnt "mv *bw.JPG" work? all files ending with that
14:32<EmleyMoor>Osiris_X: If I need further help, I will
14:32<manjaro>mtn, no problem here
14:32<manjaro>i love linux
14:33<mtn>Lumpenproletariat-cba: ok, well if you have some questions about installing or whatever, feel free to ask and someone may be able to help.
14:33<Osiris_X>EmleyMoor: to be honest if your conf files are set up correctly then it will certainly build the package directory correctly
14:33<manjaro>but...
14:33<Osiris_X>EmleyMoor: you probably just need to add i386 to Architectures: in conf/distributions
14:34<Lumpenproletariat-cba>most manuals are in info format ....
14:34<ompaul>manjaro: there is no but, you either have a Debian specific question or you don't.
14:34<EmleyMoor>Osiris_X: I'm not supporting i386 - by intention.
14:34<manjaro>ompaul, ok my debian specific question is
14:34-!-f8l [~f8l@walat-106.wrz.gdansk.sint.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:34<Osiris_X>EmleyMoor: so is your question really how to stop apt looking for i386 packages?
14:34<manjaro>why is e16 no more suported?
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14:35<EmleyMoor>Osiris_X: For that repository, yes, I guess it is.
14:35<manjaro>and now
14:35<manjaro>i really like debian
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14:36<manjaro>don't get me wrong
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14:36<ompaul>I'll do that.
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14:36<manjaro>ompaul, :)
14:37<Osiris_X>EmleyMoor: did you accidently build your package repository with i386 before deciding it wasn't required?
14:37<manjaro>i really like you
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14:37<EmleyMoor>Osiris_X: No, I built it amd64-only, at all.
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14:38<SynrG>e16 wasn't ever supported, if i recall correctly.
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14:38<manjaro>e16 is a best window manager
14:38<SynrG>oh, my mistake. it was in squeeze
14:38<manjaro>yes
14:38<SynrG>e has been in a perpetual state of "not quite ready yet"
14:38<manjaro>was quited
14:39<Osiris_X>EmleyMoor: so you have no binary-i386 folders in your Package directory tree - i.e. dists/sid/main/binary-i386/
14:39<SynrG>and if i recall correctly that was at least as much upstream's fault as anything else
14:39<SynrG>but e17 is now in jessie and so will be in the next release.
14:39<SynrG>any other questions?
14:39<EmleyMoor>Osiris_X: No - only binary-amd64
14:39<manjaro>SynrG,
14:39<manjaro>thank you
14:40-!-devil_ [~devil@00012f05.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:40<manjaro>i make android apps
14:40<manjaro>e16 works great
14:41-!-melmothX [~melmoth@13-154.dsl.iskon.hr] has joined #debian
14:41-!-Jekyll [~whodare@110.241.22.88] has joined #debian
14:41<Osiris_X>I'm not sure that the foreign architecture (i386) that you added to dpkg/apt can't be specified on a per repository basis
14:41<Osiris_X><<< EmleyMoor
14:42<EmleyMoor>Osiris_X: Hmmm... I'm not sure I quite get what you mean - there's a double negative...
14:42<manjaro>e16 is a best window managment software you can get
14:43<manjaro>really
14:43<SynrG>manjaro: not a support question
14:43<userdthn>does anyone know why my empathy+irc not runs? I thought that was by ufw firewall but Xchat runs okay.
14:43<manjaro>SynrG,
14:43<Osiris_X>EmleyMoor: I tell a lie. try deb [arch=amd64] <local reprepro repository> in your sources.list file
14:43<manjaro>please
14:43-!-mbaragiola [~mib@host228.190-226-194.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:43<EmleyMoor>Osiris_X: Ah
14:43<Osiris_X>EmleyMoor: yes the "can't" should have been "can"
14:43<manjaro>i want to work with e 16
14:44<manjaro>i had 4 dekstops
14:44<manjaro>blender android krita inkscape
14:44<ompaul>,v e16
14:44<judd>Package: e16 on i386 -- squeeze: 1.0.0-4
14:44<manjaro>everything worked super
14:44<SynrG>nobody here can help you with that. sorry.
14:44<manjaro>SynrG,
14:45<manjaro>thank You
14:45<manjaro>problem is that e17 is buggy as hell
14:45<ompaul>manjaro: and where were you when they were testing it - those who want it need to test it
14:45<manjaro>e16 is a best windows maanagment system made for human
14:45<manjaro>ompaul,
14:45-!-pmart [~pmart@031011178152.warszawa.vectranet.pl] has joined #debian
14:45<mtn>manjaro: there are chat sites on the internet that might want to discuss that with you. this is a debian help site.
14:46<manjaro>i was using it all the itme
14:46-!-idog98 [~idog98@mobile-166-147-115-146.mycingular.net] has joined #debian
14:46<EmleyMoor>I'm looking for some help also with fuse and libguestfs - I want to mount filesystems at boot time that way - but I am not sure how to specify all the options in /etc/fstab
14:46<manjaro>really
14:46-!-f8l [~f8l@walat-106.wrz.gdansk.sint.pl] has joined #debian
14:46<ompaul>so you can install squeeze and fail to have modern hardware support and it will no longer be supported when squeeze no longer gets support
14:46<manjaro>it is perfect
14:46<Osiris_X>How do I search for all commits that change a particular file in git? (preferably since a particular tag or commit reference)
14:47<ompaul>and manjaro that is as much as I can help you with that
14:47<manjaro>i've been using arch for some time
14:47<manjaro>i've been using debian before
14:47-!-bluewater [~nautics-a@000127d1.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
14:47<manjaro>arch faster but...
14:48<Osiris_X>EmleyMoor: sorry I've not really used either fuse or libguestfs, but are they both local permanent filesystems? (i.e. not portable / hot pluggable / remote etc.)
14:48<ompaul>!ops can you help manjaro understand that this is not a debian support issue and the specifics of getting the package have been imparted although the support is only for a few more months
14:48<dpkg>Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, ):, helix, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen: ompaul complains about: can you help manjaro understand that this is not a debian support issue and the specifics of getting the package have been imparted although the support is only for a few more months
14:48-!-idog98 [~idog98@mobile-166-147-115-146.mycingular.net] has quit []
14:48<EmleyMoor>Osiris_X: Yes...
14:48<manjaro>ompaul,
14:48<manjaro>You are right
14:49<manjaro>i want tell anything more
14:49<manjaro>i'm not a newbie.
14:49-!-num7 [~num7@178-27-207-208-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #debian
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14:50<ompaul>manjaro: then you are a troll I'm putting you on /ignore :)
14:50<manjaro>nvm
14:50<weasel>or you could just stop arguing.
14:50<manjaro>ompaul, shame :)
14:50<EmleyMoor>Is there any channel that can help with fuse?
14:50<weasel>probably depends
14:50<Osiris_X>EmleyMoor: then it should be just like mounting any other filesystem assuming you know the options
14:51<EmleyMoor>Osiris_X: That's the problem... I don't know how to put the options in for this particular case
14:51<Osiris_X>EmleyMoor: I assume you know your device id, mount point path filesystemt type etc?
14:52<EmleyMoor>Because libguestfs is involved, effectively no
14:52<manjaro>fuck
14:52<manjaro>kill me
14:52-!-jkf [~Icedove@130-0-59-44.broadband.tenet.odessa.ua] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:52<manjaro>?
14:53<Osiris_X>EmleyMoor: I think it is more a libguestfs issue - I see lots around mounting remote filesystems using fuse in /etc/fstab
14:53<manjaro>more whiskey and cola
14:54-!-CruX- [~crux@181.23.136.149] has joined #debian
14:54<manjaro>debian is somehow saint system
14:54<EmleyMoor>Osiris_X: It's the collision of the two worlds.
14:54-!-wwhite [~wwhite@75.157.250.35] has joined #debian
14:55<wwhite>whoami
14:55<EmleyMoor>How would I do an effective "guestmount -a disk.img -m /dev/xda8 --ro mountpoint" from fstab?
14:55-!-scientes [~scientes@12.189.20.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:56<Lumpenproletariat-cba>Is too weird to ask about winmodems???
14:57<manjaro>so
14:57-!-Bob [~burkov@ppp91-77-48-28.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #debian
14:57<EmleyMoor>Lumpenproletariat-cba: If it's about getting one to work in Debian, perhaps not
14:57<manjaro>afters years of using linux
14:58<manjaro>i'vetried w8. and got viruses 1 day .
14:58<petn-randall>manjaro: Do you have a support question regarding Debian stable?
14:58<Osiris_X>EmleyMoor: trying googling for mounting an image on a loop device through fstab - maybe the syntax will be similar
14:59<manjaro>petn-randall,
14:59<manjaro>yes and no
14:59<manjaro>to tell the truth no
14:59-!-jemadux [~jemadux@gw.vpn.autistici.org] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:59<manjaro>you can bann me right now
14:59<EmleyMoor>Osiris_X: It isn't. I can mount images on loop devices easily... it's just that I have one that sometimes crashes my system when I umount it - so I want to try something different...
15:00-!-birch [~reca@dhcp-187-32.gjk.dk] has joined #debian
15:00<Osiris_X>EmleyMoor: can you mount them using /etc/fstab?
15:00<EmleyMoor>Yes, almost in my sleep!
15:00<Osiris_X>EmleyMoor: lol I would like to know how to do that
15:01<Lumpenproletariat-cba>spring time here!!
15:01-!-prohor [~prohor@178-221-120-251.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #debian
15:01-!-wwhite [~wwhite@75.157.250.35] has quit [Quit: leaving]
15:01<Lumpenproletariat-cba>soorry folks
15:01<manjaro>Lumpenproletariat-cba, 2 degree
15:01-!-prohor [~prohor@178-221-120-251.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has left #debian []
15:02<Bob>Guys, I've got a bug with PS/2 keyboard missing keystrokes or, even worse, missing key release and spamming the same key, like fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff until I hit "f" again. I'm not sure, whether it's because of Linux kernel or X windows (evdev may be). How do I file the bug report? Debian wants a specific package to blame. :(
15:02<Lumpenproletariat-cba>well ... according to calendar..
15:02<petn-randall>Bob: How do you know it's not a broken keyboard?
15:03<Bob>Because I used Ubuntu 10.04 until May and it was ok.
15:03<manjaro>i assume he is innocence
15:03<Bob>And because the bug appears only if I don't type anything in ~30 seconds
15:03-!-Brigo [~Brigo@233.58.27.77.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:04<manjaro>hmm
15:04-!-Auroch [~Auroch@8.196-201-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: leaving]
15:04<petn-randall>Bob: Just to be sure, do you have another PS/2 keyboard at hand to test?
15:04-!-sakal [~sakal@95.72.88.98] has joined #debian
15:04<Bob>petn-randall: hm, good thought. No, but I'll look for one.
15:05-!-leeboy [~leeboy@177.207.14.235.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #debian
15:05<manjaro>Bob, :)
15:05-!-devil [~devil@00012f05.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
15:05-!-eggtimer [~eggtimer@ec2-184-169-229-116.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #debian
15:05<petn-randall>Bob: You'll want to exclude a HW problem, otherwise debugging it in software will get very hairy ... :)
15:05-!-neo1691 [~neo1691@117.228.148.135] has joined #debian
15:05<Bob>petn-randall: but may be I'll need another motherboard as well :) Thanks for suggestion!
15:05<neo1691>Has anyone tried this to speed up boot time? https://wiki.debian.org/BootProcessSpeedup
15:05-!-Ciiphuz [~Ciiphuz@89.234.142.13] has joined #debian
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15:06<neo1691>It also takes a lot of time on my box to go to desktop after typing in the password at login screen, it takes me around 15 seconds to get a fully working desktop! Any help?
15:06-!-eggtimer [~eggtimer@ec2-184-169-229-116.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit []
15:06<manjaro>can u please make e16?
15:07<petn-randall>manjaro: If you don't have a support question, I kindly ask you at least to take it to #debian-offtopic.
15:07<manjaro>petn-randall, sorry
15:08<manjaro>i will leave
15:08-!-userdthn [~user@91.Red-79-154-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #debian [Saliendo]
15:08<manjaro>it's my work place
15:08<manjaro>e16
15:09<petn-randall>neo1691: readahead will make quite a difference.
15:09-!-chalz [~chache@199.247.183.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:09-!-mbaragiola [~mib@190.193.126.77] has joined #debian
15:09<neo1691>petn-randall: Thanks trying that right away!
15:09-!-CruX- [~crux@181.23.136.149] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:10<petn-randall>neo1691: You can also try systemd on top of that, but getting that to run is more work.
15:10<manjaro>i work with this software
15:10<petn-randall>manjaro: You're drunk, Dave. Go to sleep.
15:11<manjaro>petn-randall,
15:11<neo1691>petn-randall: Is it readahead or readahead-fedora? There is not package in wheezy official repo
15:11<manjaro>ok
15:11<manjaro>you are right
15:11-!-fnmueller [~fnmueller@2list.de] has left #debian [bye]
15:11<manjaro>but e 16 did a lot for me
15:12-!-devil_ [~devil@00012f05.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
15:12<Walex>neo1691: the 15s for 'login' likely means either too little memory or very fragmented filesystem.
15:12<petn-randall>!ops manjaro
15:12<dpkg>Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, ):, helix, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen: petn-randall complains about: manjaro
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15:12-!-userdthn [~user@91.Red-79-154-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #debian
15:12<manjaro> dpkg
15:12<dpkg>manjaro: i don't know
15:13<petn-randall>neo1691: Yes, readahead-fedora.
15:13-!-Brigo [~Brigo@233.58.27.77.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #debian
15:13-!-mode/#debian [+o Ganneff] by ChanServ
15:13<neo1691>Walex, I get to the login screen after say 15 seconds, thats the default boot behavior of debian, after I type the password and hit enter it takes say 15 seconds to get a complete desktop
15:13-!-mode/#debian [+b *!*manjaro@*.web.vodafone.de] by Ganneff
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15:13<neo1691>Walex, I got 8 gb ram, so memory should not be an issue
15:13<ompaul>neo1691: which desktop?
15:14<neo1691>ompaul, gnome
15:14<petn-randall>Walex: Can you see if the HDD is the bottleneck?
15:14-!-nem [nem@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe96:4b1b] has joined #debian
15:14<Walex>neo1691: then both slow boot and slow login could be due to very fragmented filesystem
15:14-!-Hauptfee [~anna@2a01:388:201:3062:ea40:f2ff:fe3d:8a80] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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15:14<ompaul>neo1691: how much disk space did you give it?
15:14<Walex>petn-randall: neo1691: you can check IO rates on a console with 'iostat -dx 1' for example
15:15-!-a12345 [~a1234554@cable-188-2-11-161.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #debian
15:16<Walex>neo1691: if your filesystem is for example on 'ext3' and it has been updates for a while it is likely to be extremely fragmented.
15:16<neo1691>ompaul, disk space to what?
15:16<ompaul>neo1691: to the debian system
15:16<Walex>neo1691: a 'root' filetree I had has similar symptoms, and after dump-reload it was *seven* times faster...
15:17-!-kelsoo [~kelsoo@88-144-126-167.host.pobb.as13285.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:17<petn-randall>neo1691: You can install bootchart, it'll show you if your boot is CPU or I/O bound.
15:17-!-Bob [~burkov@ppp91-77-48-28.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has left #debian []
15:17<neo1691>ompaul, Walex All file systems are ext4, and the / partition is 27 gb
15:17-!-GinoMan [~Gino@pool-98-114-14-22.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:17<ompaul>neo1691: also if you have separate /var is it almost full?
15:18<petn-randall>neo1691: What HDD is it on?
15:18-!-aidalgol [~user@0001a1b7.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
15:18<Walex>neo1691: even 'ext4' can become fragmented, even if less than 'ext3'.
15:18<neo1691>ompaul, /var is almost empty
15:18<neo1691>Ill upload a pic of my gparted
15:18<ompaul>neo1691: please paste in http://paste.debian.net of df -h
15:18<SynrG> /win 44
15:18<SynrG>sorry
15:18-!-pkv [~pkv@dau94-2-82-66-64-67.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian
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15:19<Walex>neo1691: for a speed test, do a 'tar cf - .... | dd bs=1M of=/dev/zero' of some largish subtree, for example '/usr/bin', and tell us what's the transfer rate...
15:20<neo1691>ompaul, Here is the output http://paste.debian.net/47106/
15:20<Walex>neo1691: vital detail: after doing 'sysctl vm/drop_caches=3'
15:20-!-devil_ [~devil@00012f05.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:20<neo1691>Walex, I just ran the command you gave in quotes, its 11.9 MB/s
15:21<Walex>neo1691: that number is awful...
15:21<userdthn>neo1961: Do you know if your kernel is pae? If not, much memory is unusable
15:21-!-Skald_9_ [~bert@d51535828.access.telenet.be] has joined #debian
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15:22<Walex>neo1691: here I get 163MB/s on an SSD (cheating! :->) and 27MB/s on a 2TB hard disk, and the partition I know is rather fragmented.
15:23<neo1691>Please take a look at my gparted screenshot here http://min.us/lgeRAxUCQgcNj I have dualbooted windows and debian, debian partitions are on an extended partition
15:23-!-user1 [~user1@176.8.111.178] has quit []
15:23<neo1691>Walex, Even my copy paste speed is damn low, can this be the reason for that too??
15:23<EmleyMoor>I've got a hard drive SMART reporting a high airflow temperature in recent days. Anything I can do to help it?
15:23<ompaul>neo1691: two more questions, please run "free" and paste that and cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep model
15:24<neo1691>Walex sysctl says command not found!! you want me to execute this command?
15:24<Walex>neo1691: if your disk peaks at 12MB/s on collections of not-so-small files, nothing will be that quick...
15:24<neo1691>ompaul: free http://paste.debian.net/47109/
15:24-!-torjeh [~torjeh@ti0053a380-dhcp2198.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
15:24<Walex>neo1691: I don't believe you don't have 'sysctl'.
15:25<neo1691>ompaul, http://paste.debian.net/47110/ for my cpu info
15:25<neo1691>Walex, I'll install it
15:26<neo1691>Walex, I think i should run sysctl as root
15:27<neo1691>Walex, that gives me vm.drop_caches = 3
15:27<Walex>neo1691: every read test should be preceded by that.
15:27<userdthn>EmleyMoor: I had this same trouble time ago. Your cpu's fan could be broken.
15:28<Walex>neo1691: anyhow whatever other problems you have that 12MB/s is really awful. It is going to slow down everything.
15:28<neo1691>Walex, So I run the read test after sysctl. I don't know how to solve this issue? Does my file system tree indicate something
15:28<Walex>neo1691: the #1 recipe for a quick boot is: flash SSD.
15:29<Walex>neo1691: you have a very slow filetree, probably because of high fragmentation. if you don't solve that you won't get much of a responsive system.
15:29-!-cortexA9 [~cortexA9@0001bd1b.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:30<neo1691>Walex, That read test gave me 17.2 MB/s, but on /dev/zero
15:31<neo1691>Walex: Defragmentation is the key here?
15:31<Walex>neo1691: how does that make sense?
15:31-!-thunderrd [~thunderrd@119.42.76.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:31<neo1691>I executed this command tar cf - .... | dd bs=1M of=/dev/zero after sysctl
15:31<Walex>neo1691: to double check, run again: sysctl vm/drop_caches=3
15:32<Walex>neo1691: and then: tar cf - /usr/lib | dd bs=1M of=/dev/zero
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15:33<neo1691>Walex: Hold on it working, taking a little time on /usr/lib
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15:35<neo1691>Walex, 17.1 MB/s
15:36<Walex>neo1691: thats pretty bad too.
15:36-!-mtn [~mtn@174.32.161.71] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
15:37<Walex>neo1691: consider that a recent disk on an unfragmented disk can do around 100MB/s in a bulk 'tar'. 'bin' and 'lib' files are relatively small, but still..
15:37<ompaul>neo1691: please paste this lshw | grep product | grep -v Series
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15:38<Walex>neo1691: here on my 2TB HD I get 35MB/s and again it is a rather fragmented filetree.
15:39-!-vince [~vincent@89-92-28-208.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #debian
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15:39<neo1691>ompaul, lshw: command not found as root
15:39-!-vince [~vincent@89-92-28-208.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit []
15:39<ompaul>neo1691: perhaps you would install it
15:39<neo1691>Walex: Any solution to this? I dont know what will help
15:40<Walex>neo1691: either a flash SSD drive or period dump-reformat-reload.
15:40<Walex>neo1691: either a flash SSD drive or periodic dump-reformat-reload.
15:40-!-thunderrd [~thunderrd@119.42.76.190] has joined #debian
15:40<ompaul>neo1691: what is your block size?
15:40-!-chalz [~chache@199.247.183.156] has joined #debian
15:41<neo1691>ompaul: http://paste.debian.net/47116/
15:41-!-shirish_ [~quassel@59.94.123.87] has joined #debian
15:41<neo1691>ompaul: block size means?
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15:45<ompaul>neo1691: that paste I don't see the hard drive (which is supposed to be a 750G drive) in it
15:45<ompaul>neo1691: the blocks on the disk
15:47<ompaul>neo1691: sorry that's a toshiba disk in there
15:48<neo1691>ompaul: did you take a look at my gparted screenshot? http://min.us/lgeRAxUCQgcNj are you talking about this?
15:48<Walex>neo1691: it is a 5400RPM laptop drive, not terribly fast to start with...
15:48<Walex>http://storage.toshiba.com/storagesolutions/pc-notebook/mk7559gsxp
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15:50<neo1691>Walex, Yup that's it.
15:51<ompaul>neo1691: no but thanks - that's never going to be fast fdisk -l shows it but not needed a 5.4k disk is slow as the day is long
15:51<userdthn>neo1691: if you are in gnome. Try menu->accesories->disc utility. That is a graphical tool for diagnose and correct errors in storage devices.
15:51<neo1691>So the delays on boot and slow read/write on other devices is normal on this HDD?
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15:52<Walex>neo1691: the disk is slow, but the earlier transfer rates are slow even for that disk.
15:52<neo1691>userdthn: Check filesystem option?
15:53<neo1691>Check filesystem option says "File system is NOT clean"
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15:54<ompaul>neo1691: don't ever do that on a running system
15:55<neo1691>ompaul: Oh ok
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15:55<ompaul>neo1691: do what walex suggested and get rid of all of those partitions except for media I'd do it something like this on that box all primary windows swap / then do the extended partition for /home and media but that's just me
15:55<userdthn>neo1961: yes.
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15:56<Walex>ompaul: I did not suggest getting rid of all those partitions, simply that the filesystems in particular '/' look fragmented on a slow disk.
15:56<userdthn>neo1961: but it has to say you about correct errors.
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15:56<ompaul>Walex: I went further than you, I thought that was clear (my comms skills are somewhat lacking)
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15:57<Walex>but yes I like the less-partitions idea, but that's not what's going wrong with speed here.
15:57<ompaul>hmm I wonder
15:57<ompaul>will that box take an SD disk also
15:57<neo1691>But that will end up me having to format the whole system? Or moving blocks risk loss of data?
15:57*ompaul goes looking at the asus
15:58<Walex>neo1691: for now probably you just need to backup your GNU/Linux partitions, reformat them and reload the contents.
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15:59<ompaul>neo1691: just do that backup for starters how long is the box installed?
16:00<neo1691>Well Walex: I installed this box a month ago, and had formatted all the partitions then, (not the windows partitions but the new partitions that were created)
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16:01<Walex>neo1691: then it is way too early for fragmentation.
16:01<neo1691>Walex: Thats what I was wondering!
16:01<Walex>neo1691: unless you did a lot of packages updates.
16:01<userdthn>neo1961: Posible solution with ext4: try "sudo e4defrag /dev/sdaX" where X is the number of you volume (You must read this number in you gparted)
16:02<Walex>neo1691: but if you 'e4defrag' make sure you backup first...
16:02<neo1691>userdthn: e4defrag is a tool for defragementation?
16:03<Walex>neo1691: anyhow, that drive is a low power, low speed, high capacity drive for a laptop. It is designed for a system that is booted very rarely and then is kept permantly in RAM and suspended to RAM.
16:03<userdthn>neo1961: Yes. but only for ext4 filesistems
16:03<neo1691>Walex: In that case, I will have to find a new portable hard drive! I just cannot backup anything for the time being, I thing I should be habituated with the delay!
16:03<userdthn>neo1961: type "man e4defrag" on console if any doubt
16:04<neo1691>Walex: Most of the time my laptop is suspended!
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16:04<Walex>neo1691: you should match then the expected usage pattern: boot the laptop once, that will bring most stuff into RAM, and you got 8GiB of it, and then suspend to RAM instead of logging out and shutting down.
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16:05<Walex>neo1691: and buy an external drive for backup, at least a small one for backing up the important things.
16:06*Walex prays every night that all drives that haven't been backed up will crash soon
16:06<neo1691>Walex: still a student, costly for a guy like me, but I should, after putting some of my programming skills to work! :) *hopefully*
16:07<neo1691>I hope that *soon* is atleast a year away!
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16:07<neo1691>Walex: the box is very responsive however, I get very slow copy-paste speed to pen drives and other devices, but that's a different issue altogether I guess!
16:08<Walex>neo1691: it is the same in other ways.
16:08<Walex>neo1691: plus IIRC some automounters don't trust users and will mount pen drives by default in 'sync' mode.
16:09<Walex>neo1691: plus the default IO setting of the Linux kernel are very bad for latency/responsiveness.
16:09<userdthn>neo1961: copy-paste slow speed to pen drives is normal. it's a usb devices problem. Cut-paste is faster, true?
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16:10<Walex>neo1691: there is an interesting post by Linus Torvalds to the kernel mailing list in which he was outraged that his PC was freezing during file copy operations.
16:10<neo1691>userdthn: Haven't really noticed the difference! Will observe the next tie!
16:10<neo1691>Walex: You got a link to that thread?
16:11<Walex>userdthn: that sounds very strange. The bottleneck is most likely the writing speed to the USB stick. 'cut' should be *way* slower than 'copy' because it involves a lot of file deletions.
16:11<neo1691>Another observation I have made, (was also there when I was using ubuntu) is that when I try to copy paste something, the gui progress bar will shoot to 98% and then hang up there for quite some time
16:12<Walex>neo1691: that's because of the wrong defaults for file settings in the Linux kernel.
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16:13<neo1691>Also another observation is that, sometimes after copy pasting something to a pen drive and un-mounting it, I get an prompt to not eject the medium as its still transferring the data!
16:13<Walex>neo1691: same.
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16:13<SamB>neo1691: wait, AFTER unmounting?
16:13<Walex>neo1691: let's say that you have excessive expectations...
16:14<SamB>like does that happen if you unmount from the CLI?
16:14<SamB>and then get a prompt?
16:14<Walex>SamB: he does not umount... He just pulls the stick
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16:14<neo1691>SamB, no when I unmount from the gui, from nautilus.
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16:14<Walex>neo1691: you seem to have the inflated expectation that umounting is an instantaneous operation.
16:15<SamB>I don't know what nautilus does to signal completion of unmount
16:15<SamB>but in any case, no, it isn't instant
16:15<neo1691>Walex: Well but that prompt takes a lot of time, I'll explain the situation again
16:15<SamB>it involves waiting for any cached/bufferred data to make it to disk
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16:16<SamB>(well, not *clean* cache pages, of course)
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16:17<neo1691>Suppose I have a pendrive mounted and I am trying to copy a movie from my HDD to pd, the copy-progress dialogue will tell you that copy paste is complete (in shockingly fast time) and then when you *eject* the medium from the file-browser, you get the prompt.
16:17<Walex>On Linus Torvalds outraged by latency during IO: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/818261
16:17<neo1691>And that prompt stays for long, as if the copy paste of the movie is still going on!
16:17<Walex>neo1691: why does that surprise you?
16:18<Walex>neo1691: as I mentioned the default settings for IO in the Linux kernel are all wrong.
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16:18<SamB>neo1691: hmm, yes, that is misleading ...
16:18<Walex>neo1691: the copy getsfirst written to RAM and then later to the USB pen, because of the O_PONIES problem too
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16:18<SamB>O_PONIES ?
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16:19<neo1691>Walex: It used to surprise me, not anymore :)
16:19<Walex>neo1691: so I need to add also: not only the kernel IO settings are wrong, most applications don't do IO properly (with 'fsync') either.
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16:20<SamB>Walex: I'm not sure if it would be wise to fsync after every file though; what if you were copying a tree with lots of tiny files?
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16:20<Walex>SamB: there was a huge controversy about lack of 'fsync' use by applications and 'ext4' some time ago, and one of the best comments was that applications programmers want the 'O_PONIES' ioctl under which everything just works psychically with maximum speed and sagety.
16:20<SamB>Walex: ah
16:21<Walex>SamB: technically well written applications 'fsync' just before 'close'. If the user does not like that there might be an option or use 'eatmydata'.
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16:22<Walex>SamB: for example Schilling's 'tar' does that, and has a suitable option.
16:22<SamB>does cp do this? if so I guess it should be fine for everyone to do it.
16:22<userdthn>Walex: when you copy-paste a file. computer reads and writes in short group of bytes (computer has to keep the old file and cannot lost time calculating file size if big). However, cut-paste copy all to memory, write in new destiny and destroy old file or tree of files (it's half work)
16:23<Walex>userdthn: that looks to me like a very very peculiar implementation, and I hope nobody does it that way.
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16:23<SamB>userdthn: do you mean cut/paste BETWEEN filesystems or within the filesystem?
16:24<SamB>if within the filesystem, it's easily explained as not having to touch the file contents at all
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16:24<SamB>just the directory entries and possibly the inode
16:24<Walex>SamB: an interesting application of 'eatmydata': http://www.csamuel.org/2013/07/13/speeding-up-digikams-face-recognition-with-risks
16:26<neo1691>feeling blessed to be in #debian
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16:27<Walex>the O_PONIES article: http://lwn.net/Articles/351422/
16:28<neo1691>I wish I was born in the 1980's
16:29<SamB>why? so you could predate more of the software that you use?
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16:30<userdthn>SamB: I meant in the case: hard disk(origin) and usb drive(destiny)
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16:35<SamB>huh, coreutils cp/mv don't seem to sync based on the source ...
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16:54<ibyt3k>hello :)
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16:56<SamB>hmm, thankfully, all of MY disk-backed filesystems seem to have data=ordered already
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16:59<demoorian>when using usb-dtat-stick, you mught take into account one or more lines in fstab like this one:
16:59<demoorian>/dev/sdb1 /media/usb0 auto rw,sync,users,noauto,umask=000,iocharset=iso8859-15,codepage=850 0 0
16:59<demoorian>depending on
17:00<demoorian>filesys, and charset/codepage
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17:01<demoorian>the 'sync' is the one that makes you more secure, if you do not trust your gui
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17:02<demoorian>i do use 2 such lines, just when i use 2 usb-file-sticks the very same time
17:03<demoorian>sdb1/sdb2
17:05<demoorian>and sorry for typos, but it should be clear what i meant
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17:13<wothinn>I'm hoping someone can help. Scouring Google for a couple hours with no luck. Details: squeeze/amd64 running as a kvm guest on squeeze/amd64. Upgraded to the latest kernel package that looks like it just came out. Guest is unbootable.
17:13<wothinn>I get a hang just at/after fsck. No diagnostic info.
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17:14<wothinn>I'm guessing my initrd is pooched, but I don't know how to fix it. I added init=/bin/sh to my linu commandline in grub and I can poke around, but I'm lost.
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17:18<wothinn>I just ran dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-2.6.34-5-amd64 and it completed with no errors... remade me an initrd, updated grub. Rebooted, same issue. So maybe it's not the initrd.
17:19<wothinn>Checking file systems...fsck from util-linux-ng 2.17.2
17:19<wothinn>^C has no effect.
17:19<wothinn>All the filesystems are clean (verified when I was in earlier).
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17:25<wothinn>Hmm... trial and error... fixed by using /dev/<whatever> nodes in /etc/fstab instead of UUID= references.
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17:42<Argure>is there a nightly build of iceweasel 25.0.1 anywhere?
17:42<Argure>I know I can just use the FF nightly, but hey, principles. :P
17:43<Argure>sid unfortunately only goes up to 24
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17:49<piper>Argure: nightly is 27.0a1
17:50<Argure>that at least should have TLS 1.2
17:50*Argure goes to look for it
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18:04<cami>hello
18:04<cami>hola
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18:10<EmleyMoor>userdthn's suggestion is irrelevant. This is one hard disk (out of 4) reporting excess heat. Not the CPU, and not all the hard discs.
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18:11<EmleyMoor>I intend to check (and sweep) all the fans soon anyway, but if there's anything else to specifically check for this problem, please let me know.
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18:28<alessandro1997>Hello everyone. I updated a Squeeze server today, but now I can't run apt anymore because update-mime-database segfaults.
18:29<alessandro1997>I googled the issue and it seems a bug, but I still haven't found a solution.
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18:38<birch>i'm having some weird problems with transmission. The application icon doesn't work for running the app. I can call the bin from su but if i try from my user then i get (transmission-gtk:812): GLib-GIO-CRITICAL **: Timeout was reached
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19:20<caioash>rodrigo?
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19:24<devil>caioash: no rodrigo
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21:17<lol>eae
21:17<stderr>?
21:17<lol>vc usam o big linux?
21:17-!-user01 [~user01@cpe-68-175-100-15.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
21:17<retrospectacus>?
21:18-!-kriger [~norge@71-90-14-51.dhcp.ftbg.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:18<lol>ei ganneff
21:19<lol>debhelpe you big linux?
21:19<retrospectacus>English?
21:19<lol>not i speak portugues
21:19<lol>is you?
21:19<retrospectacus>!pt
21:19<dpkg>Por favor use #debian-pt para ajuda em portugues ou #debian-br para ajuda em portugues do brasil. ( /join #debian-pt )
21:20<lol>portugues tambem
21:20<lol>vc usa big linux ou ubuntun?
21:20-!-Noskcaj [~Noskcaj@CPE-58-166-67-108.lnse5.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #debian
21:21<retrospectacus>lol: this is Debian support in English. Not ubuntu, not portuguese.
21:22<lol>hum
21:23<retrospectacus>and definitely not "Big Linux" if that is a real thing
21:23-!-ximion [~ximion@207.216.160.78] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
21:23-!-tattoli_ [~wat@pool-74-102-89-212.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #debian
21:24<stderr>It is... http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=biglinux
21:24<lol>i big linux
21:24-!-tattoli [~wat@pool-74-102-89-212.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
21:25<retrospectacus>lol: we only support Debian. You'll have to locate the "big Linux" support channel for assistance
21:27<lol>beauty
21:27-!-dcx [~dcx@0001bd75.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
21:27<retrospectacus>(or even better, install Debian!)
21:28-!-brokenstein [~brokenste@50.9.78.124] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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21:28<lol>what to do debian chi
21:29<retrospectacus>!ig
21:29<dpkg>The Installation Guide for Debian 7 "Wheezy" can be found at http://www.debian.org/releases/wheezy/installmanual . See also <errata>, <release notes>.
21:29-!-darkbasic [~quassel@niko.linuxsystems.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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21:30<lol>beauty
21:30-!-ntvvyc [~Sam.Spade@p5B25A160.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
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21:30<lol>wanting to learn english
21:31<lol>kkk
21:31-!-darkbasic [~quassel@niko.linuxsystems.it] has joined #debian
21:34<lol>you´s in that siti every day
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21:37<lol>hi
21:37-!-user01 [~user01@cpe-68-175-100-15.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:38<retrospectacus>lol: /join #moocows
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21:57<Diogenes>oi?
21:57-!-KindTwo is now known as KindOne
21:57<retrospectacus>no oi
21:57<Diogenes>porque
21:58<retrospectacus>only English allowed
21:58<SamB>lol
21:58<Diogenes>how sorry about that :\
21:58<Diogenes>que meleca
21:58<Diogenes>this peoples is so silent no!?
21:58<retrospectacus>!ask
21:58<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
21:58<retrospectacus>!chat
21:58<dpkg>This is not a chat channel, this is a Debian user support channel. Unless you have a Debian support question, please chat elsewhere, like #moocows on irc.oftc.net or #defocus on irc.freenode.net.
21:59-!-ReAzem [~ReAzem@206.167.42.195] has joined #debian
21:59<Diogenes>im begginer dude! sorry :\
21:59<Diogenes>i dont understand
21:59<retrospectacus>no worries... read above
22:00<Diogenes>but in ingles is hard to me!:( snif snif
22:00<retrospectacus>!es
22:00<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
22:01<Diogenes>dont have debian in pt (portuguese or brazilian ?)
22:01<retrospectacus>!pt
22:01<dpkg>Por favor use #debian-pt para ajuda em portugues ou #debian-br para ajuda em portugues do brasil. ( /join #debian-pt )
22:01<Diogenes>this is bullyng
22:02<Diogenes>tenks to set #debian-br and pt ^^
22:02<retrospectacus>enjoy
22:02<Diogenes>see ya budy kiss in your ass ^
22:02-!-Diogenes [~Diogenes@177.43.213.182] has left #debian [Konversation terminated!]
22:02<retrospectacus>thanks?
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22:58-!-salvin [~salvin@93-46-2-198.ip105.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
22:59-!-Rudde [~Rudde@232.87.45.31.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:00-!-mode/#debian [+l 576] by debhelper
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23:01-!-Saxman1 [~Saxman@p5B0221E1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
23:01-!-Saxman is now known as Guest637
23:01-!-Saxman1 is now known as Saxman
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23:15-!-jay__ [~jay@pool-173-66-172-181.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #debian
23:15<jay__>hi all
23:16-!-jay__ [~jay@pool-173-66-172-181.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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23:36-!-JanC [~janc@ip-83-134-210-102.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #debian
23:39-!-Katy_ [~kt@p4FFA3F59.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
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23:43-!-vrkalak [~vrkalak@173.5.140.153] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
23:44-!-ryonagana [~quassel@187.107.248.93] has joined #debian
23:44-!-vrkalak [~vrkalak@173.5.140.153] has joined #debian
23:44-!-dario^CIP [~dario@ircbox.informatik.uni-erlangen.de] has joined #debian
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23:46-!-Katy [~kt@p5DE840AE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:46-!-Katy_ is now known as Katy
23:47-!-vrkalak [~vrkalak@173.5.140.153] has quit []
23:47-!-cybersphinx [~cyber@HSI-KBW-091-089-212-218.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
23:48-!-vrkalak [~vrkalak@173.5.140.153] has joined #debian
23:48-!-vrkalak [~vrkalak@173.5.140.153] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
23:48-!-vrkalak [~vrkalak@173.5.140.153] has joined #debian
23:52-!-aurelien` [~Libre@AMarseille-157-1-87-7.w90-37.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian
23:53-!-dario^CIP [~dario@ircbox.informatik.uni-erlangen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:54-!-danny [~danny@ool-4573df3d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #debian
23:55-!-alumno [~alumno@host234.190-226-129.telecom.net.ar] has joined #debian
23:55<alumno>hello
23:56<lxd>alumno hi
23:57<alumno>what is you name?
23:59-!-aurelien [~Libre@aurelien.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
---Logclosed Sun Sep 29 00:00:41 2013