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#debian IRC Logs for 2013-10-14

---Logopened Mon Oct 14 00:00:01 2013
00:00-!-mode/#debian [+l 567] by debhelper
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00:18<waqstar>Can anybody point me in the right direction for setting up high availability on Debian?
00:18<SamB>high availability of what?
00:19<waqstar>Cluster with 2 hardware devices 1 as failover 1 as active
00:19<waqstar>I hear it is possible
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00:20<waqstar>For example running apache and a second host as failover due to network con loss etc
00:21<jcrowgey>hiya deb people. i'm running lxde (happily), i'm trying to run nm-applet on startup. the docs seems to say I should put a line in a desktop.conf file. doesn't seem to be working for me though
00:21<jcrowgey>after i log in, i can run nm-applet at the terminal and it pops up on the panel and does its thing. i must be missing something with respect to getting it to startup on login though. any suggestions?
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00:25<jcrowgey>no lxde users? no comments? do i have write permisson on this channel.
00:26<waqstar>Jcrowgey: I think you must place the script you want to run in the /etc/init.d dir
00:26<waqstar>Just create a simple script
00:26<jcrowgey>waqstar: I don't want an init script, i want to attach an applet to a panel upon logging into the desktop env.
00:27<jcrowgey>waqstar: so obviously, i can put 'nm-applet &' into a text file and have init run that, but i think there should be a way to attach this to the desktop environment that it pertains to, does that make sense?
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00:33<jcrowgey>gonna try some other stuff, see y'all later
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00:38<redder>LtL, it finally finished deleting
00:39<LtL>redder: excellent, now figure out what made it yeah?
00:41<redder>LtL, if only
00:42<LtL>redder: I think you'll enjoy debian alot more if you learn the shell and it's tools. it's fun stuff and faster than GUI
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00:48<redder>LtL, probably, but learning takes time, and sadly i dont have a lot of time to dedicate to learning the whole OS
00:48<redder>LtL, plus dont i need to learn C to really understand linux?
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00:49<LtL>redder: just hanging out here, you'll pick up alot, and as for C, well you don't *have* to learn it.
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00:51<redder>LtL, but you still need it to really understand the nuts and bolts right? if you learn C++ can you figure out C?
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00:52<SamB>redder: it's probably better to learn C first
00:52<LtL>redder: I've toyed with writing and compiling simple C programs, it's up to you how deep you wanna dig.
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00:53<SamB>. lost+found
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00:54<redder>SamB why C first?
00:55<SamB>well, it's a lot simpler, and most APIs are in C anyway
00:55<redder>SamB, i thought C++ was suppose to be simpler
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00:56<lautriv>redder, forget C++
00:56<redder>lautriv, why
00:57<lautriv>redder, C rulez, the kernel is C, any sane app is C. C++ is rubbish.
00:57<waqstar>C++ isn't that bad o.0
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00:58<redder>my understanding is that C and C++ are actually two different languages, at least different as far as their intended use, is that correct?
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00:58<redder>and what about C# and C*
00:58<lautriv>waqstar, there are indeed much worse choices but meh.
00:59<waqstar>Look no further than PHP ha
00:59<Freddrickk>C++ is a enhanced version of C ...
00:59<SamB>C* ?
00:59<waqstar>Purely taking linux into account I would say C
01:00<waqstar>C++ is good too
01:00<waqstar>I've not heard of c*
01:01<SamB>me either
01:01<SamB>hence the question mark
01:01<Freddrickk>there's no C* as far as I know
01:01<redder>maybe i have it wrong, i thought there was a C*
01:01<waqstar>SamB: lol ;)
01:02<Freddrickk>Objective-C ?
01:02<SamB>combine the two and you get Objective C++ -- C++ finally gets something like real OO!
01:02<waqstar>Redder: it really depends what flu want to do. There are many good languages out there
01:02<Freddrickk>C flat ?
01:03<redder>but all of linux is written in C right?
01:03<waqstar>Not all
01:03<redder>anything Linux OS written in C++?
01:03<lautriv>redder, see coding good stuff need a bit of "think like the machine" but time evolved languages for the use for lazy people and that context switched to "code like a human and let the machine interpret that" that leads to bloat.
01:05<redder>lautriv, and thats the different betw C and C++
01:06<waqstar>Redder: kde is in c++ I think. Python is involved as well. C and assembly lan are used for the kernel
01:06<redder>so C++ is used primarily for GUIs?
01:07<lautriv>redder, C++ is object-oriented, the machine has no direct idea of an object, anything tracks down to math. the only thing superior to C is assembly but that counts not for x86.
01:07<waqstar>Gnome is c if I remember correctly
01:07<jm_>no, list which packages depend on libstdc++ and you'll see
01:07<jm_>+ which
01:07<redder>so it sounds like just learn both
01:08<SamB>C++ isn't really very object-oriented
01:08<waqstar>Redder: c++ was an improvement to c. Hence the ++ increment to it. It depends what your objective is. Lower level is defo C I would say python is worth it
01:09<redder>python is an off-shot of C right?
01:09<lautriv>i would say it's a question of the goal.
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01:10<Osiris_X>can someone enlighten me as to why python might be chosen over perl?
01:11<waqstar>It really depends what you would like to do. That's when you decide high level or low level
01:11<SamB>redder: no ...
01:11<lautriv>Osiris_X, perl is fine to mangle large text but don't try to access LDAP with it :)
01:11<waqstar>Osiris_x: personal opinion :/
01:12<redder>we really need emoticons in this IRC, i could really use the Skype one where he is banging his head into a wall
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01:13<Osiris_X>ok :) - just always wondered why I see Python in kernel package scripts and KDE etc. - but not so much Perl
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01:14<lautriv>Osiris_X, 2 decades ago it was perl but even a bunch of hardliners left it in flafour of python.
01:14<redder>anyone understand what the freedombox project is?
01:15<Osiris_X>lautriv: I guess it is a case of learn Python and make the judgement for myself
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01:17<lautriv>Osiris_X, i had no time for python so far but i see it used in very fast background-thingies ( networking and such ) so it appears not lag.
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01:27<redder>anyway, off for the night, thx all for the help
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01:28<waqstar>It's morning here. But goodnight
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01:29<lautriv>early morning.
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01:32<lautriv>hmmm, qemu appears to be faster with 1 core than 2
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01:51<EmleyMoor>I don't understand what, if anything, backuppc has done with a backup it says it completed
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01:56<Thorium220>can anyone help me with a driver issue? trying to install this driver: on a robot
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03:41<ljsoftnet>how do i apply system wide theme in xfce?
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04:05<ljsoftnet>how do i apply system wide theme in xfce?
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04:14<ljsoftnet>how do i apply xfce theme as root?
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04:29<ljsoftnet>how do i apply xfce theme as root?
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04:35<llandon>Does anyone know about problems with the updates of 13th October? They killed apache session on various servers.
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04:39<ljsoftnet>can i make application that uses gtk 3 to use gtk 2?
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05:41<andres>Is there any convenient tool to read the new initramfss that are appended cpios?
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05:51<buffoon_work>Hi! I got a authentication problem on wheezy. When I try to login I get a wrong password error. When trying to change the password with passwd (chrootet from debian-live) I get the error "passwd: Authentication token manipulation error" before I even get prompted for a new password. passwd and shadow file seem to be fine. Do you have any hints where to look for the reason of that problem?
05:52<jm_>andres: I use mc for cpio files
05:52<jm_>buffoon_work: have you mounted /proc and /sys in chroot?
05:56<andres>jm_: the problem is that initramfs now are multiple concattenated ones
05:56<andres>jm_: afaics there's no usable tool for decoding those.
05:56<buffoon_work>ah, i didn't mount /sys. Now at least I can change the password. I'll try to boot normally into the system now.
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05:57<jm_>andres: doesn't cpio handle those?
05:57<andres>Don't think so.
05:57<andres>And especially not if one is plain (the ucode update) and the other is compressed
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06:02<buffoon_work>ok, authentication works again. What could be the cause of that problem? It seems strange that I had to reset the passwords without even touching something related to authentication
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06:07<andres>Absolutely obvious solution: (cpio -i --io-size=1; dd bs=1 count=8 of=/dev/null;zcat | cpio -i) < /tmp/initrd.img-3.10.12-andres
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07:07<timeline>Hi, quick question. On my raspberry pi, I've created a new group. I then added the 'pi' account to that group (and I'm logged in as pi), but when I type groups with arguments, that group doesn't show up. When I type 'groups pi', it does show up. When I type 'echo $USER', it says my name is pi. I have no idea what's going on
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07:08<timeline>I also don't have permissions to the folders I've added to the group
07:08<jm_>did you logout and login again? either do that or use newgrp/sg
07:08<timeline>Logging in and out fixed it, thanks a lot :)
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07:08<jm_>no worries
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08:31<buffoon_work>Now I got another Problem. We have an olivetti MF220 Printer in the office. It doesn't support printing through pdf (only postcript) but evince is always trying to send the document in PDF to the printer. This hangs the printer. Any idea how to change that?
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08:31<buffoon_work>other programs print fine though (Except libreoffice where I can change the language to PS)
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08:44<algharib>hello to all
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09:12<esseks>Hi! Is it possible to chainload an installer image burned on a USB using GRUB?
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09:13<esseks>The PC I'd like to install does not support USB boot, but it has Linux with GRUB2 already installed (from a CD)
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09:22<SynrG>esseks: the installation guide covers this case, i believe
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09:22<SynrG>it lists "the simple way" (or "easy way", I forget the exact wording) and "the flexible way"
09:22<SynrG>you want "the flexible way"
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09:32<petn-randall>Hi echo, feel free to ask about any problems related to Debian stable.
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09:35<echo>Hi Randall
09:35<echo>I'm trying to backport a package from sid
09:36<petn-randall>dpkg: tell echo about ssb
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09:36<echo>thank you
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09:37<petn-randall>echo: The message from dpkg should explain it all. If you have further questions, feel free to ask.
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09:41<echo>okay, quick question. The reason i'm backporting is because stable has an outdated version of the program I'm looking for. So, do I need to search and specify which version I'm trying to get?
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09:42<echo>like aptitude build-dep package-2.1 or will it automatically target the latest version?
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09:44<dy>hi guys please who knows the channel for boinc
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09:52<Maulkin>dy: See - bottom of the page
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09:57<dy>thank you!
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10:10<echo>I feel like i'm missing some repo
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10:10<ayaka>when I do multistrap in native arch, I met a problem
10:11<echo>I know i've done this before.. just can't remember how. The package IS in unstable.. however, I can't locate it via aptitude search or apt-cache policy
10:11<echo>what's the repo lines I need for unstable to backport something?
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10:13<SynrG>echo: did you read the 'ssb' factoid? it has xrefs for anything else you need to know.
10:13<SynrG>just msg the bot
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10:13<SynrG>perhaps: deb-src sid
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10:15<SynrG>ayaka: you probably want to see #emdebian about that
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10:15<echo>Hmm, okay. I have that repo. Just not seeing my package showing.
10:17<SynrG>what do you type? what do you expect to happen? what happens instead?
10:18<echo>I typed aptitude search mudlet. It lists mudlet 2.0 from stable repo. I expected to see 2.1 from the unstable repo.
10:18<SynrG>where in the ssb factoid does it say you can do that?
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10:18<SynrG>did you do the next step in the ssb factoid?
10:19<echo>It doesn't say you can. Knowing there are two versions out there I wanted to be sure I'm installing the correct one and noted there's only one listed.
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10:19<SynrG>you can't.
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10:20<SynrG>you've installed a deb-src line. that is the correct thing to do. however, that does not give you access to any sid binaries.
10:20<SynrG>nor is it desirable to do that.
10:20<SynrG>so you are not missing any apt lines
10:20<ayaka>SynrG, ok I will
10:20<SynrG>your expectation that you can apt-cache search is simply wrong
10:20<SynrG>apt-cache show, i mean.
10:21<SynrG>since that command operates on binaries
10:21<SynrG>just do the next step of the factoid. what's stopping you? :)
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10:22<ayaka>in my memories, it is a easy way to use multistrap to install a system
10:22-!-utente [~utente@] has joined #debian
10:22<echo>I just didn't want to start installing the wrong thing.
10:22<SynrG>if you do, you'll see the instant it starts downloading the wrong thing
10:22-!-bluepants [] has joined #debian
10:22<SynrG>you'll be able to bail
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10:24<echo>just looking at some dependency issues
10:26<SynrG>things that are in sid but not in stable that it needs?
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10:27<echo>it's telling me it's unable to satisfy the build depends liblua5.1-dev
10:27<SynrG>,v liblua5.1-dev
10:27<judd>No package named 'liblua5.1-dev' was found in i386.
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10:28<drjointpl>hi everyone
10:28<SynrG>,v iblua5.1-0-dev
10:28<judd>No package named 'iblua5.1-0-dev' was found in i386.
10:28<SynrG>bleah, cut-and-paste error
10:28<SynrG>,v liblua5.1-0-dev
10:28<judd>Package: liblua5.1-0-dev on i386 -- squeeze: 5.1.4-5; wheezy: 5.1.5-4; jessie: 5.1.5-5; sid: 5.1.5-5
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10:28<SynrG>echo: ^^ this one?
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10:28<drjointpl>hi synrG
10:29<SynrG>good morning
10:29<drjointpl>for me is 4:30 pm :)
10:29<drjointpl>in my time
10:29<SynrG>got a debian support question? socialization is over at #debian-offtopic
10:30<drjointpl>yes i have
10:30<echo>Yeah, that might be it.
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10:30<drjointpl>i try install game i use only that one
10:30<SynrG>echo: it's virtual
10:30<drjointpl>offcose wine install
10:30<echo>here's what it tells me. "Unable to satisfy the build-depends: Build-Depends: liblua5.1-dev"
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10:30<SynrG>echo: liblua5.1-0-dev Provides: liblua5.1-dev
10:31<echo>so no worries then?
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10:31<SynrG>should be fine
10:32<drjointpl>i have this instruction
10:32<SynrG>echo: did you do the next step in the ssb factoid, or were you just manually checking the deps?
10:32<drjointpl>i install wine
10:32<drjointpl>but i don't know what i must do
10:32<drjointpl>in this step
10:32<echo>I was doing the next step when it told me that
10:33<dpkg>Wine (Wine Is Not an Emulator) is an application intended to allow execution of Microsoft Windows programs on Unix-like operating systems. Application compatibility database: . #winehq on See <mmap_min_addr> regarding use of Win16 binaries. See also <newer wine>.
10:33<echo>Manually installed the liblua5.1-0-dev and still get it.
10:33<SynrG>these guys might be able to help better, drjointpl
10:33<SynrG>echo: ok. that's curious
10:34<echo>I'm still kinda new to this process, so I'm kinda paranoid I'll botch it up
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10:34<drjointpl>patch -p1 < disable-dynamic-vertex-buffers.patch
10:34<drjointpl>and now i have question
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10:35<drjointpl>File to patch:
10:35<drjointpl>what i must write there ?
10:36<SynrG>echo: since liblua5.1-0-dev also Provides liblua5.1-dev in stable, i wonder what the issue is. which package are you backporting? i can't see in the backlog where you said which one.
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10:37<echo>was trying to backport mudlet 2.1
10:38<Maulkin>drjointpl: I have no idea - that doesn't look like it came from Debian, you may want to try with someone who actually wrote that software or patch or something
10:38<drjointpl>this instrucion propobly is for ubuntu
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10:39<drjointpl>but ubuntu is based on debion
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10:39<SynrG>echo: so what's the exact command you typed and the output? use, please
10:40<drjointpl>i paste that command
10:40<drjointpl> patch -p1 < disable-dynamic-vertex-buffers.patch
10:40<SynrG>drjointpl: might be a dir level thing
10:40-!-lduros [] has joined #debian
10:41<SynrG>or might be a matter of not being cd'd to the right place ...
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10:41<drjointpl>is working
10:41<echo>okay one moment
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10:42<drjointpl>and now i must input file name
10:42<SynrG>you shouldn't have to
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10:42<drjointpl>but i dont know what i must write in the command
10:42<SynrG>i'm not familiar with this software, drjointpl. you will have to sort it out with whoever provided it.
10:43<SynrG>all i can say in general is:
10:43<drjointpl>i understud now XD
10:43<SynrG>patches are written with all the info in them to say what they expect to be patched *against*
10:43<SynrG>just read the patch
10:43<drjointpl>whait a moment
10:43<SynrG>if the file isn't there where the patch expects, you may be in the wrong dir or have the wrong -p# level ...
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10:45<SynrG>echo: when i try the same command on a wheezy system, I get:
10:45<SynrG>Note, selecting 'liblua5.1-0-dev' instead of 'liblua5.1-dev'
10:45<SynrG>i wonder what is wrong ... did you break your stable deb line?
10:45<SynrG>pastebin your whole /etc/apt/sources.list please
10:46<drjointpl>is wrong place propobly
10:46<drjointpl>i paste for one minut
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10:50<echo>okay here it is
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10:51<SynrG>drjointpl: so it expects there to be dlls/wined3d/buffer.c in your current dir.
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10:51<SynrG>drjointpl: if that file isn't there, you're in the wrong directory.
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10:52<echo>hopefully I didn't. I just reinstalled debian a few days ago. Trying to get a realtek 8188ce wifi adapter to work. I'm giving up and replacing it with an intel one later.
10:53<drjointpl>so i must find whe the file dlls/wined3d/buffer.c is
10:53<drjointpl>how can i do that
10:54<SynrG>drjointpl: using 'find'?
10:54<SynrG>or whatever your favourite software is for finding files
10:54<SynrG>... assuming you already unpacked the source of whatever it is you're trying to patch
10:55<SynrG>you could just search where you thought you unpacked it, e.g. find . -name buffer.c
10:55<SynrG>you need to be in the top-level dir of that source tree, i.e. the dir where 'dlls' is.
10:57<SynrG>echo: i'm still looking ... i don't see anything obviously wrong with that ...
10:58<drjointpl>when i command
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10:58<SynrG>echo: try 'aptitude why-not liblua5.1-dev'
10:58<drjointpl>find . -name buffer.c
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10:58<drjointpl>i have no answers
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10:59<SynrG>drjointpl: so, start from some other directory you think might contain this source. or else, review the instructions you're following. you probably missed a step.
10:59<SynrG>you need to have downloaded and unpacked the source of the software you wish to patch.
11:00<drjointpl>yes i do that
11:00<SynrG>then maybe what you downloaded and unpacked wasn't what you really needed.
11:00<echo>says no packaged named that exists
11:00<drjointpl>this is prapobly patch to winetricks
11:00<echo>oh wait
11:00<SynrG>echo: this is all after having done an 'aptitude update' right?
11:00<echo>forgot the -dev part
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11:01<echo>okay, it's showing it as installed: i liblua5.1-0-dev Conflicts liblua5.1-dev
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11:02<SynrG>drjointpl: i doubt it
11:02<echo>yeah, it's updated and still kicking back that unable to satisfy depends
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11:03<SynrG>drjointpl: winetricks is a shell script
11:03<SynrG>it contains no *.c files.
11:03<drjointpl>before i do that
11:03<drjointpl>and now i must do that step whit problem :/
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11:03<echo>hmm conflicts
11:04<SynrG>drjointpl: we've veered *very* off topic for here. as i said, #winehq @ freenode can probably help you better.
11:04<SynrG>i tried to equip you with some general help for finding and patching things
11:04<Maulkin>drjointpl: This... what SynrG said
11:04<SynrG>but that's as much as i can do
11:05<SynrG>echo: yes. it conflicts with itself. i had wondered about that :p
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11:05<SynrG>echo: you could try removing it and redoing the apt-get build-dep
11:06<drjointpl>ok i go to #winehq
11:06<drjointpl>thens anyway
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11:08<SynrG>let's see if i can reproduce your issue simply by installing the package
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11:09<SynrG>echo: nope. not by installing the version in wheezy, at least.
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11:09<echo>Yeah, it didn't change anything by removing it.
11:10<SynrG>drjointpl: do you have an actual package named liblua5.1-dev installed?
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11:10<SynrG>echo: do you have an actual package named liblua5.1-dev installed?
11:10<drjointpl>im noob i don't know
11:10<SynrG>drjointpl: not for you
11:11<echo>I don't think so
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11:11<SynrG>echo: can you just 'apt-get install liblua5.1-dev' then?
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11:11<drjointpl>in #winehq is 0 people
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11:12<SynrG>drjointpl: i said @ freenode
11:12<SynrG> not this network.
11:12<echo>It installed it that time. Last time I tried that it wouldn't.. maybe forgot to update
11:12<echo>still gives the issue though when I go to buld dep
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11:14<SynrG>echo: so right now you have liblua5.1-0-dev 5.1.5-4 installed?
11:15<SynrG>maybe pastebin the output of apt-cache policy liblua5.1-0-dev
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11:16<lp>i'm doing incremental backups with rdiff-backup, by manually invoking my own script every week or so; i'd like to do automated hourly/daily/weekly/monthly incremental backups
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11:17<lp>are deja-dup (GUI frontend for duplicity) or rsnapshot good alternatives to rdiff-backup for doing that?
11:18<echo>I have liblua5.1-0 yeah
11:18<SynrG>why don't you just set up a cron job for it?
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11:18<SynrG>echo: that's not what i asked
11:19<SynrG>anyway, how about the apt-cache policy output?
11:19<lp>SynrG: rdiff-backup can't delete backups in between, due to its diff system. i'd like to keep e.g. the last 7 daily backups, 10 weekly backups, 12 monthly…
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11:20<echo>okay, how do I check for the other?
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11:21<SynrG>lp: personally, i would steer away from a gui front-end designed as 'simplified' desktop-user solution like deja-dup
11:21<lp>duplicity is from the same author as rdiff-backup, but it's in development and the tracker contains scary bugs with data loss; both duplicity and rsnapshot could delete arbitrary backups
11:22<SynrG>lp: i'm quite happy with backupninja
11:22-!-moreno [~moreno@] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via]
11:22<SynrG>meets my scheduling and retention needs
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11:22<echo>Yeah, it's installed Syn
11:22<SynrG>and has a plugins system for dealing with special actions like safe backup of db, etc.
11:23<lp>SynrG: do you use LVM snapshots to make sure everything is consistent? i used to go to single-user mode, but that's nerving
11:23<lp>SynrG: i had heard about backup ninja, didn't try it yet
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11:24<SynrG>i don't
11:24<SynrG>i probably should
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11:24<lp>LVM snapshots are the only alternative for data consistency, right?
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11:25<lp>i also thought about a cheap NAS (QNAP series even runs Debian) - what would one run on the clients? something like BackupPC or Bacula?
11:26<SynrG>tbh, on the system where i'm using backupninja, backups are being done during a quiet time, so likelihood of corruption are vanishingly small
11:26<SynrG>probably want to talk to someone with more ops experience than me
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11:27<SynrG>i have backuppc in a mixed home network. it works nicely
11:27<SynrG>not so well for systems that aren't constantly attached ...
11:27<SynrG>but otherwise, fine
11:27<SynrG>the backupninja deployment is at work on a dev/testing box
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11:27<valdyn>lp: why would lvm snapshots be data consistent?
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11:30<lp>valdyn: on a heavy traffic system, files are being written constantly, even during backup; you can easily end up with backed up files that are not a consistent state for an application, be it a mail server, database or some complex application like firefox
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11:30<valdyn>lp: yes, but lvm snapshots cannot protect you from that
11:30<SynrG>lp: you had better deal with that at an application level
11:30<SynrG>lp: that's what backupninja provides for
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11:31<valdyn>lp: on linux theres no way for you to get something just like vss
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11:31<SynrG>you can have a perfectly consistent write to disk but still not have a completed application level transaction
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11:31<lp>but, but… LVM freezes the filesystem during backup, while allowing the apps to write to that free space in the mean time
11:31<valdyn>lp: that does not make the backup useful
11:32<SynrG>lp: nothing tells lvm to freeze it at a time that is safe for a given application
11:32<nardev_>hello, is there any application in repos that i can use to extract/edit FLA (flash source) files. No meter how primitive. I just need to grab some text from there?
11:32<SynrG>you could freeze right in the middle of a half-completed db transaction
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11:33<lp>then what are big companies using for server backup?
11:33<SynrG>the only way to safely backup a db is to make sure it can't write when it's being backed up
11:33<lp>i had only heard about bacula (and mondo, but that's another direction)
11:33<SynrG>i used mondo for a while
11:33<valdyn>lp: if you want safe backups, then the program whos data you want to backup needs to take all the precautions
11:33<SynrG>i gave up on it
11:33<SynrG>appealing idea. but it really fell badly out of date wrt the debian archive
11:34-!-dotix [~dotix@] has joined #debian
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11:34<SynrG>and didn't do anything to address the issues we're talking about
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11:34<lp>is the version in stable not working? i wanted to try this week, in addition to incremental backups
11:34<valdyn>lp: and among such programs theres databases that always have consistent data on disk and theres some (most) that do not
11:34*SynrG shruged
11:34<SynrG>no idea. stopped caring.
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11:34<lp>i know, mondo is full system restore
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11:35<SynrG>yup. i used it on a fairly slowly changing system as my rescue recovery kit so i could get back up and running quickly should my workstation suddenly go tits up
11:35<SynrG>but honestly, almost every single upgrade gave me issues
11:35<SynrG>and many backups were unbootable and i didn't know until i tested them
11:35<SynrG>i learned it was a system i couldn't trust
11:36<lp>SynrG: is clonezilla better?
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11:37<SynrG>don't have extensive experience
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11:37<SynrG>it probably fits that niche better, though.
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11:38<SynrG>what i eventually decided on was a hand-rolled backup recovery solution
11:38<lp>valdyn: you're right about the programs… i would expect postgres/mysql/oracle/db2 or some mail daemons have ways to provide safe access while working, not sure about desktop apps
11:38<SynrG>this is for the system under ninjabackup ...
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11:38<SynrG>the process is: reinstall from d-i image, get a minimal system up and running on that
11:38<SynrG>and restore the rdiff-backup stuff kept by ninjabackup on top of that.
11:39<valdyn>lp: most of those databases need their own snapshot facility to do proper backups
11:39<lp>SynrG: same here, based on rdiff-backup - more than once battle-tested (just inconvenient with stopping everything, okay for my netbook, not really for the VPS)
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11:39<valdyn>lp: and you just backup those snapshots then
11:39<SynrG>i've successfully used that in a recovery exercise myself, then handed my notes to a non-linux-savvy developer on the team to reproduce my results.
11:39<SynrG>he had no problems with it.
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11:40<lp>valdyn: you mean, generate database snapshots via cron, and backup like usual?
11:40<SynrG>we rejected both mondo and clonezilla in favour of that. i can't exactly remember why :)
11:40<valdyn>lp: theres no "safe way" for desktop apps
11:40<SynrG>we felt we had good reasons.
11:40<SynrG>(probably "less magic" was the biggest one)
11:40<valdyn>lp: one can only hope that by-file backup works good enough - there cannot be a guarantee
11:41<valdyn>lp: yea
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11:41<lp>i was curious what the big guys are using… there seems to be less documentation in debian about big deployments - then i looked in RHEL manuals, are they're no better :(
11:42<valdyn>lp: big deployments use cron and db snapshots one way or another - theres nothing else
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11:43<lp>SynrG: that's also what i did… neinstall, then install from generated package list (Aptitude —schedule-only), then blast the rest on top with rdiff-backup
11:43<valdyn>lp: im sure both rhel and debian have the documentation included with each database. Youre probably confused by this being simple and primitive - which isnt a bad thing
11:44<lp>valdyn: i mean, something like a sysadmin manual for advanced setups
11:44<valdyn>lp: its included in each database
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11:44<valdyn>lp: because its different in each database
11:45<lp>valdyn: i read the backup chapter both is osamu's debian reference and raphael herzog's sysadmin book, and was unimpressed - i thought there'd be general advice there
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11:45<valdyn>lp: i agree that theres a lack of generalisation there, but thats how it is. Not just in linux.
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11:46<lp>yes… the few insights to be found are from google presentations or apache postmortems :(
11:46<valdyn>lp: you would google "mysql backup" or "postgres backup"
11:47<lp>but if it's app-specific, something like backup-ninja seems to be the best way
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11:48<valdyn>lp: yea, looks neat. I dont know it
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11:48<calisto>hi all, a friend tell me about debian 8 are in process of freeze, this is correct? the actual kernel of debian 8 are 3.10 and have a important bug in the display bright, in kernel 3.11 are solved, this affect many new notebooks, its possible add the newest kernel?
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11:48<SynrG>lp: try it. the learning curve is not bad ...
11:49<lp>SynrG: thanks, i will
11:49<SynrG>lp: and it impressed me as having lots of flexibility while remaining simple enough for me to understand.
11:49<valdyn>calisto: newers kernels will be available, but debian will not change the default kernel for a bug like this
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11:49<SynrG>lp: for me it was that 'sweet spot' between 'big' solutions and 'small' solutions
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11:50<stderr>calisto: We're not in freeze yet... "We are happy to announce that we will freeze Jessie at 23:59 UTC on the 5th of November 2014."
11:50<stderr>And yes, the mail from Niels does say 2014...
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11:51<valdyn>so probably not 3.10
11:51<SynrG>lp: btw, i tried a ton of backup systems before settling on that for deployment at work :) even used amanda for a while, backing up to an external exabyte tape drive ... aeons ago
11:51<valdyn>it could be 3.12, who knows
11:51<stderr>I think it's a typo.
11:52<calisto>stderr: aha, what are te posibilites to add new kernel ?
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11:52<SynrG>all of them had either "too much magic" (meaning vital bits i wanted to modified were wrenched from my control by design ...) or "too simplistic" (meaning it was probably designed for desktop users to make things as easy as possible, so again, it failed to provide the flexibility i was seeking)
11:52<stderr>But to be honest, I don't know. November 2014 seems so far away, but November 2013 seems pretty close.
11:53<twinsen>I recently deleted my normal use account, wiped my home directory, and set it up with another account under the same name, but now I'm getting weird permission/priviledge errors. I can't open text files with a graphical text editor (vim from the command line works fine). I also had no audio/couldn't access /dev/mixer until I added myself to the audio group (is that a normal practice?). Any help would be greatly appreciated.
11:53<stderr>calisto: You'll have to ask the release team. I'm not even a DD.
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11:54<calisto>stderr: you know the correct channel to ask to release team?
11:54<stderr>twinsen: Can you do a ls -n on one of the files you can't open... And run id too.
11:54<valdyn>it is 2014
11:55<SynrG>twinsen: two things. one, 'user-setup' which set up your initial user account has some defaults for putting you in groups and such ... you may be missing some of those ... and two: not everything owned by a user is in /home
11:55<twinsen>stderr: yes
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11:57<twinsen>can I run user-setup now, given a vanilla debian setup?
11:57<twinsen>I see the packages now
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11:57<twinsen>thank you two for your help
11:58<twinsen>by the way, what other packages might be owned by a user outside of their home dir?
11:58<twinsen>packages, files, whatever
11:58<stderr>Stuff in /tmp and /var/tmp... Mails...
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11:59<twinsen>cronjobs... so long as no teeth are involved
11:59<stderr>find / -mount -user twinsen might find something.
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12:01<twinsen>quite a lot, actually
12:01<lp>SynrG: i only now found your comment about your attempts with amanda, by rereading your and valdyn's answers - thanks, that's valuable insight
12:01<lp>SynrG: i'll try backup-ninja
12:01<stderr>twinsen: If you got /home on the same partition as /, it'll find a lot...
12:03<twinsen>lot's of small files for customizing my desktop... trying to get mate on a bare bones debian system... maybe Arch, when I can spare the time
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12:03<twinsen>but it's looking like I'll be best off wiping this account again
12:03<twinsen>thanks for the help
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12:05<calisto>any know the channel of debian release team?
12:07<calisto>thanks daemonkeeper
12:08<daemonkeeper>Be well prepared if you communicate with the release team :>
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13:51<tjader>I'm trying to install libgnomeprint2.2-0:i386 on an amd64 machine, however it depends on libgnomeprint2.2-data:i386 (= 2.18.8-3) which is not available.
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13:51<tjader>Output of "apt-get install libgnomeprint2.2-0:i386 2>&1 | pastebinit":
13:51<tjader>Have I misconfigured something or is there a bug in the package?
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13:52<tjader>libgnomeprint2.2-data's arch is all, so something smells funny
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13:52<tjader>But I'm not familiar with the innards of MultiArch.
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14:19<petn-randall>dpkg: tell tjader about bat
14:21<tjader>petn-randall: thanks, but I believe I have found the root of the problem
14:22<petn-randall>What? I thought multiarch was one of the release goals ...
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14:23<tjader>Yeah, but this package has been dropped
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14:36<dpkg>max_: È possibile scaricare un sacco di software libero puntando il tuo browser a !
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14:40<mandark>Hi there, I have hard times to diagnose a proble, : after "xset dpms force on" one of my two screens (DVI one) does not come back on, nothing in logs, nothing usefull I can find on etc... does someone have an idea ?
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15:01<dpkg>max_: È possibile scaricare un sacco di software libero puntando il tuo browser a !
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15:22<vipro>where can i find help for using flex sdk?
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15:23<vipro>where can i find help for using flex sdk?
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15:58<rickbol>what would be the best way to copy a current install, and then restore to a different disk\partition scheme?
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16:24<musca>!tell rickbol about aptitude clone
16:26<cae>I'm trying to setup rkhunter on another machine, rkhunter -c gives just a bunch of "The command 'uname' must be present on the system in order to run rkhunter." messages (also for cat, grep, etc) and returns with code 1
16:27<cae>the debugging output show, that /bin and /sbin don't get tested on the second run of a internal function, and I'm not sure if that is right
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16:35<nadir>cae: to me it sounds unusual that "uname" is not installed.
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16:36<nadir>Are you sure it says "uname" ? And you got any settings like "no-recommends" ?
16:36<cae>nadir: it's installed, as everything else, but just not in /usr*, but in /bin or /sbin
16:36<daemonkeeper>(unless you run it without /sbin in your path ...)
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16:36<cae>I belive it's a bug in rkhunter
16:37<cae>daemonkeeper: $PATH is correct, /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin
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16:37<nadir>sorry. Debian stable, yes? Cause i run it regularly without problems
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16:39<cae>nadir: yeah, Wheezy. And on all the other boxes it does work without problems
16:40-!-mode/#debian [+l 634] by debhelper
16:40<cae>there's nothing special about this single host... and it's a shell script, it should work almost everywhere
16:40<nadir>cae: short ago i was wondering about "unide", asked here and was told it's a recommends of rkhunter. I was only asking the most obvious, else am out of ideas.
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16:41<cae>yeah, unhide/unhide.rb stuff... aaand it's not installed yet. Let's see
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16:42<cae>and it doesn't change anything
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16:43<cae>the conf is just frome the .deb and exept some ALLOW* variables exactly like the working ones
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16:50<Katy>cae: have tried using -bindir option?
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16:52<cae>Katy: umm, thought about it, but didn't dig deeper
16:52<cae>I'll try
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16:54<cae>Katy: dosn't help:
16:54<cae># rkhunter -c --bindir /bin | head -1; which cat
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16:54<cae>The command 'cat' must be present on the system in order to run rkhunter.
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16:56<Katy>misread, thought it was in /usr/, not in /bin. /bin is default, now i'm out of ideas.
16:56<Katy>Fresh installed rkhunter runs fine here.
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17:02<Moritz>Hi, I'm trying to make rsnapshot work on Debian 7 but it doesn't. I did a test on the config file and it said syntax OK, I already did a test run on the backup and it seemed to wrok (the command is a blank whcih basically says that it does something, but it actually doesn't happen). I waited since this Sunday but there's still no backup to be found under "/var/cache/rsnapshot". I'm starting to think that the cronjobs are wrong.
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17:02<Moritz>Here's the config file for rsnapshot:
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17:02<Moritz>And here's the crontab:
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17:03<Moritz>I've spent so many hours on this now and it's so frustrating when I can't find out what's wrong.
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17:04<Moritz>And yes, "user" and "hostname" is really something else in the config file. I just change them as I pasted them into the pastebin.
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17:08<Katy>Moritz: be patient
17:08<nadir>The only cron i ever got working: i had to copy the script to /etc/cron.*** (i think daily in my case).
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17:11<Moritz>nadir: So you moved the script into /etc/cron and then changed the path in crontab?
17:12<nadir>yes (i didn't move but copy, but in general: that's what i did). Not saying it is the right way to do it
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17:12<nadir>also a backup, btw (though with rsync)
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17:13<nadir>and it took me days to get it running :-)
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17:13<Moritz>Well, it doesn't matter if it's the right way or not. Just want to get it solved. :)
17:13<Moritz>I'm going to try it, thanks. :)
17:13<nadir>ok, good luck
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17:15<Katy>Moritz: try adding something like 'touch ~/rsnapshot_running;' in front of one of yours crontab commands. Then you can see from ctime when your jobs ran.
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17:15<Katy>or if theres no file, they didnt ran.
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17:16<Katy>Besides that, did you check your system mail?
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17:16<Moritz>Wow, I think I found the solution. This might be an extreme newbie mistake, but /usr/local/bin/ is totally empty.
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17:17<Moritz>I assume that there should be something there belonging to rsnapshot as the path says "/usr/local/bin/rsnapshot".
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17:22<Moritz>I'm sorry for this nooby question, but does anyone know where I could get a hold of those scripts?
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17:23<Katy>try 'which rsnapshot'
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17:25<stderr>Moritz: Where did you get that copy of rsnapshot? The one in the Debian package is located in /usr/bin/rsnapshot.
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17:26<Moritz>I used "apt-get install rsnapshot".
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17:26<Moritz>Katy's command just helped me find out that it's in the same path as you mentioned stderr.
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17:27<Moritz>I think I followed the guide on a bit too much. Gosh I hate being such a newbie sometimes.
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17:28<Katy>We all were once :)
17:29<Moritz>Does this look better to you guys?
17:29<Katy>looks good to me
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17:31<stderr>Moritz: Can the "daily" script finish in 30 minutes?
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17:31<stderr>I mean, from 23:30 when "daily" starts till 00:00 when "hourly" starts.
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17:32<Moritz>Unsure about that, moving it back to 22:00 instead.
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17:34<Moritz>Put "0 22 * * * /usr/bin/rsnapshot daily" there instead.
17:34<Moritz>Does it matter if there's space between the time/date and the command to run, or should it be tab'd?
17:35<Moritz>I meant space as i separated with the space bar.
17:35<stderr>From man 5 crontab: "The fields may be separated by spaces or tabs."
17:36<Moritz>Oh damn, should have thought about the manual. Sorry.
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17:37<Moritz>Well I hope it will be working now. If not then...well I then I got something to do for the rest of the week. Thank you for the help, to all of you guys. :)
17:38<Moritz>Good night.
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17:38<stderr>You could add a small test run to your crontab.
17:38<stderr>... or not.
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17:41<leoslax>Hello, someone here know how to get a cloak in OFTC?
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17:43<jordanm>leoslax: try #oftc
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17:50<leoslax>thank jordanm!
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18:43<Cogito>How long do new package uploads stay in the NEW queue, and what might cause them to not move out? Is there a way to see conversation around a particular package?
18:43<abrotman>wqhen the ftpmasters allow them
18:44<pcpro>hello does anyone know how i can make pinguy os run smoother? it keeps freezing up on me
18:44<devil_>copyright issues can prolong the process
18:44<abrotman>pcpro: this is #debian, try #pinguyos on freenode
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18:44<devil_>pcpro: by asking the makers of it.
18:45*abrotman grabs devil_ by his tail
18:45<Cogito>abrotman: that's what I figured ;) more to the point, I am interested in helping get some progress on packages, and can't figure out what their status is beyond 'in NEW for a few weeks'
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18:45<abrotman>Cogito: might help to state the package you're curious about
18:45<Cogito>sure, its wine-unstable
18:46<abrotman>yeah, uh, good luck with that
18:46<devil_>Cogito: you should just not use wine from debian :)
18:46<Cogito>I know haha
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18:47<Cogito>I build my own in a chroot
18:47<Cogito>the thing is, there is activity on the package, but it's lagging many versions behind. This in itself is not really a problem, but I can't find out why this is the case
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18:48<abrotman>you can email the maintainer and ask if they'd like some help
18:48<devil_>it's been like that forever, I nevrer cared, cause I do not use it
18:49<Cogito>yeah I might email them. previous emails (by others) to the list don't seem to go answered, and I was hoping to dig a little to see what the current status is
18:49<Cogito>it's had some issues with 64bit build by the look of it, but I can't find anything in particular outstanding
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18:50<Cogito>also, since some updates were relatively recently pushed to NEW, which seem to fix quite a few things, I wanted to see how everything came out afterwards
18:50<Cogito>but anyhow, email is probably the best bet
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20:44<Doobe>yesterday I spent 3 hours learning how to change my time zone and date. Today i spent 9 hours learning how to install xchat. then I found the package manager, Derp
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20:45<martin03646>hej jag fattar inte hur man gör detta, Men jag får väl googla:)
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20:50<LtL>9 hours! gotta be a typo.
20:51<Doobe>nope thats real lol
20:51<Doobe>But hay, I learned a boat load
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20:52<LtL>Doobe: that's a good thing then :)
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20:53<Doobe>yeah, I am newish to linux. I played around with linux about 10 years ago so i remember abit from them. Things have become so user friendly now days
20:55<Doobe>I was trying to compile xchat :D I got to the "Now type make and pray" part. but it failed. then i discovered this package manager its awesome
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20:57<Doobe>Now i am looking for a nice network connection monitor to i can see all tpc and udp connection data in real time, any one know of a good one?
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20:59<abrotman>Doobe: uh, why? it' spackaged
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21:01<Doobe>Because I am using knoppix I installed to the hard drive. its only a very limited install but it is debian based.
21:02<LtL>Doobe: I don't know of any, I use netstat aliased in my .bashrc and use it in a shell. I just type 'n' .. here it is: alias n='netstat -tunap'
21:02<abrotman>Doobe: this channel is for Debian support
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21:04<Doobe>yeah I use netstat here but looking for some thing, a little more real time.
21:04<abrotman>right, so you'd either install Debian or ask #knoppix on
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21:07<Doobe>ok ill do that thanks for the chat :)
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21:15<redshadowhero>Does anyone know off the top of their head if you can configure xen DomUs with a nat interface to the primary interface alongside VMs that are flat-out bridged?
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22:39<|Anthony|>i just used visudo -f /etc/sudoers.d/somefile to attempt to create a custom sudoers file. It saved without any errors, but now sudo is broken. Is there any way to remove that file without have to boot to a recovery shell?
22:40<|Anthony|>obviously i can't install any new things atm lol
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22:47<LtL>|Anthony|: delete 'somefile' and 'adduser yourname sudo' or delete somefile and run visudo to edit /etc/sudoers
22:47<|Anthony|>can't delete without sudo
22:48<LtL>|Anthony|: and you don't have root?
22:48<|Anthony|>disabled root login on install
22:48<LtL>|Anthony|: is this ubuntu
22:49<|Anthony|>not this machine
22:49<LtL>|Anthony|: a remote box, ah, well
22:49<|Anthony|>well... it's only 6 feet away remote
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22:49<|Anthony|>but ssh all the same... it's in a closet
22:50<LtL>|Anthony|: so ssh in, then get root
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22:51<LtL>|Anthony|: ssh user@remote then 'su -' type root's pass and fix it.
22:52<|Anthony|>so i suppose i should know the root pw
22:52<|Anthony|>go ahead... laugh at my expense
22:52<|Anthony|>i would
22:52<LtL>|Anthony|: yes you should.
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22:54<coruja>visudo -f /etc/sudoers (default settings back)
22:54<|Anthony|>wait... no when i installed the installer asked if i wanted to use the root account... i said no
22:54<|Anthony|>so no root account is enabled
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23:00<redder>how do i set a sudo password?
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23:00<LtL>redder: sudo uses your user's password
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23:01<redder>LtL, i just type 'sudo' ?
23:01<redder>as the command
23:01<LtL>|Anthony|: you can attempt one of these methods described here,
23:02<LtL>redder: sudo command .. type your password
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23:03<redder>LtL, if i type sudo it gives me a list of usage commands, then if i type 'sudo -' and put in my password it says 'command not found'
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23:03<Arrowmaster>you need to give sudo a command to run
23:03<LtL>redder: not quite, what command do you want to use
23:04<LtL>redder: as in apt-get update?
23:04<redder>LtL, yeah, or aptitude
23:04<Arrowmaster>sudo aptitude update
23:05<LtL>redder: sudo apt-get update && apt-get upgrade or just do one at a time, or sudo aptitude update
23:05<redder>LtL, Arrowmaster whats the difference betw apt-get and aptitude
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23:06<redder>and how often does 'upgrade' need to be run?
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23:07<LtL>redder: what desktop do you have, gnome? update-notifier will tell you if there are updates available.
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23:08<LtL>redder: once a week atleast
23:08<LtL>to ba safe, more often
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23:10<LtL>redder: apt-get is best for simple stuff, aptitude is good at resolving dependencies and has other options apt-get doesn't. read man aptitude and man apt-get
23:10<sney>cron-apt is another option for knowing how often to upgrade
23:11<LtL>sney: ++
23:11<|Anthony|>Thanks LtL. I figured i'd have to do either of those methods
23:11<|Anthony|>was hoping for a back door
23:11<LtL>|Anthony|: good luck :)
23:11<sney>|Anthony|: next time don't break your only way in. :P
23:11<Arrowmaster>i think ive got unattended-upgrades installed but not set to upgrade so it just runs the update daily and tells me
23:14<|Anthony|>it's going to take longer to pull the machine out of the closet then it will to fix the issue
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---Logclosed Tue Oct 15 00:00:02 2013